The Interview with Leslie Heaney

Episode: Pt. 2 From Africa to Yellowstone: Tom Opre on Conservation Stories That Matter

Date: September 8, 2025
Host: Leslie Heaney
Guest: Tom Opre, Filmmaker & Founder, Shepherds of Wildlife Society

Overview

In this compelling second part of their conversation, Leslie Heaney and documentary filmmaker Tom Opre dive deep into Tom’s latest project, "The Real Yellowstone." They explore the realities of rural Montana, the nuanced challenges of modern conservation, and the sacrifices made for progress and ecological balance. Tom discusses the impact of recent development trends on multi-generational ranchers, the reintroduction and regulation of wolves and grizzly bears, regenerative ranching, land ethics, and the broader global context of conservation, drawing from both American and international stories. The conversation is rich in personal anecdotes, eye-opening details, and an urgent call for more informed, holistic approaches to land and wildlife management.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is ‘The Real Yellowstone’?

[02:22 - 04:54]

• Tom, a Montana resident for nearly 30 years, contrasts the Hollywood show "Yellowstone" with the real Montana:
  • TV’s portrayal of locals is inaccurate and sometimes uses real ranchers’ names in misleading ways.
• "The Real Yellowstone" arose after ranchers asked Tom to tell their real stories:
  • "We started filming about two and a half years ago... No one's ever created a television show, a book, or a film called The Real Yellowstone." – Tom Opre [03:46]

2. Rural Realities: Wildlife Management Challenges

[04:55 - 08:38]

• The film highlights the roles of multi-generational ranch and farming families as land stewards.
• Unintended consequences of conservation, like the 1970s grizzly bear protections, impact locals:
  • "We didn't manage grizzly bears very well... the federal government manages and we don't allow the bears to be utilized... So now we have some unintended consequence." – Tom [06:00]
• Real-life example: A rancher’s daughter has never played outside due to grizzly bear presence.

3. The Wolf Debate & Economic Impacts

[08:38 - 14:26]

• Leslie prompts Tom about the controversial reintroduction of gray wolves ([08:38]):
  • Local wolves were a smaller, less aggressive subspecies. Today’s gray wolves, imported from northern Alberta, hunt in large packs and inflict greater losses.
• Economic stress: Losing calves to wolves and bears can devastate a rancher’s sole annual income.
  • "How many of us can afford to take up a twenty-thousand, fifty-thousand dollar hit in our paycheck?" – Tom [13:35]

4. Modern Ranching Practices & Predator Conflicts

[14:26 - 17:03]

• Innovative solutions: Regenerative ranching, like using solar-charged electric fencing and herding, helps protect livestock.
• Predator conflict is intense and dangerous:
  • "You want to talk about, get your attention when you've got a 600-pound animal with big old sharp teeth and long ass claws... It literally puts the hair on the back of your neck" – Tom [15:27]
• Due to lack of predator management, Montana grizzlies lack fear of humans—unlike their Alaskan relatives, who are hunted and therefore more wary ([17:03]).

5. Man vs. Nature... and Development

[18:33 - 29:02]

• Beyond wildlife conflict, ranchers face pressures from development and urban newcomers seeking a ‘trophy ranch’ lifestyle, but not practicing stewardship:
  • "We're the largest set of the poorest multi-millionaires there is... Land rich, cash poor." – Rancher quote via Tom [25:00]
• Rapid investment and soaring land values make it hard for working ranches to survive:
  • Some pay up to $25,000/acre for land only worth $600-$800/acre as cattle operations ([26:45]).

6. Regenerative Ranching Explained

[19:30 - 23:23]

• Ranchers mimic nature’s cycles (e.g., bison grazing) through heavy, short-term grazing for soil health.
  • "It's just like going to the gym as a human being, lifting weights, breaking down the muscle fiber..." – Tom [21:52]
• Outcomes: Healthier grasslands and wildlife, improved ranch productivity.

7. The Threat of ‘Rewilding’ and Land Withdrawal

[29:02 - 35:13]

• Tom discusses organizations like American Prairie aiming to create a private “American Serengeti” by acquiring and “rewilding” millions of acres:
  • "Their first question was: save it from who?" – Tom on local rancher skepticism [31:46]
• Many locals see these efforts as displacement, not conservation.

8. The Purpose and Message Behind Tom’s Works

[35:16 - 49:03]

• Tom’s films aim to present multi-sided, nuanced views—advocating for common-sense conservation, wise use, and the importance of rural stewards:
  • "We need to celebrate the rancher, we need to celebrate farmers that do the right farming..." – Tom [36:13]
• Distinction between conservation (active management, sustainable use) vs. preservation (no use, hands-off).
• Larger discussion on global trends, like rewilding in Scotland, billionaire landowners, and the motivations of conservation non-profits.
• "Common sense is not common" – Tom, echoing a memorable refrain [35:13], [50:53].

9. How to Watch "The Real Yellowstone" & Tom's Other Works

[42:45 - 52:16]

• "The Real Yellowstone" is screening in rural communities and available for limited online viewing via shepherdsofwildlife.org until September 15.
• 55-min PBS version and educational versions forthcoming.
• "Killing the Shepherd" and "The Last Keeper" available with panel discussions.
• Tom encourages audience activism: watching, sharing, and helping advocate for land stewardship.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On TV vs. reality in Montana:
  "Is that how they're portraying us? ...They started using some of their names in the scripts... I'm like, wait a minute. No, they don't do that. This is BS." – Tom Opre [02:51]

• On predator management:
  "Wildlife loses on human-wildlife conflict because we kill it... I would think the only thing that’d be similar is maybe being in a gunfight or in the military in a battle where people are trying to kill you... because that’s what it is." – Tom Opre [15:27]

• On changing land ownership and the ‘trophy ranch’ effect:
  "One of the ranchers told me... we're the largest set of the poorest multi-millionaires there is." – [25:00]

• On sustainable ranching:
  "What my film does... we humanize these people... they are really embracing... how these things have worked over the millennia..." – Tom Opre [22:11]

• On the conservation message:
  "If we don't start figuring out that the people that take care of these rural landscapes—not the city people, the rural people—if they don't see a benefit to it, then they're not going to be doing the good work in conservation and land stewardship." – Tom Opre [36:15]

• On motives of NGOs and land trusts:
  "He literally admitted to me... they had nothing to do with [John Muir's] ideology. That tells me they're just nothing but a fraud. Yeah, it's real." – Tom Opre [40:15]

• On audience engagement:
  "I can’t do what I can do without all of yours help, without people getting behind this movement, because really what this is about is about making sure we leave the planet better than we found it." – Tom Opre [44:52]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:22 – Tom introduces his Montana experience and reactions to the TV series "Yellowstone"
• 04:55 – Real stories inspiring the documentary "The Real Yellowstone"
• 06:00 – Grizzly bear overpopulation, policy, and consequences
• 08:38 – Gray wolf reintroduction and economic impacts on ranchers
• 13:35 – Ranchers' financial vulnerability and livestock losses
• 14:26 – Regenerative ranching methods and predator management
• 17:03 – Differences between Alaska and Montana bear-human conflict
• 19:30 – Societal tensions: land, development, ranching, urbanization
• 25:00 – “Largest set of the poorest multi-millionaires”—economic challenges for ranchers
• 29:02 – Trophy ranches, absentee owners, ripple effects on ecosystems and food security
• 31:46 – "Save it from who?"—local skepticism to rewilding
• 35:13 – Nuances of conservation, the need for common sense
• 36:15 – Core conservation message
• 40:15 – Example of disconnect between conservation organization leadership and founding values
• 42:45 – Film availability, screenings, and activism opportunities
• 44:52 – Call to action for public engagement and support

Tone & Language

• Conversational, candid, sometimes wry—especially from Tom, who blends personal conviction with humor and practical observations.
• Deeply informative, with authentic, lived experience and occasional playful barbs at pop culture depictions.

How to Support & Engage

• Watch the film: Visit shepherdsofwildlife.org to purchase digital cinema tickets until September 15.
• Connect & share: Follow Tom Opre and Shepherds of Wildlife on social platforms and discuss the films.
• Host a screening: Underwriting and screening opportunities available for larger audiences.
• Educate & inform: Invite decision-makers—politicians, policy writers, educators—to see the films and join the conversation.

Final Comment from Host Leslie Heaney

"I applaud you for taking your talent in filmmaking and, and putting it towards such an important cause of educating all of us about the importance of conservation. And I learned so much about the distinction between conservation and preservation..." [45:33]

This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in the real-world intricacies of land stewardship, conservation, and the lived experience of America’s rural communities. Tom Opre’s stories invite viewers to look past romanticized media, demanding we honor those who are the true caretakers of our land and wildlife.