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- [00:05]
Leslie Heaney
So last week, I had the distinct honor and pleasure of interviewing Jean Becker on her new book, Character Matters and Other Life lessons from George H.W. bush. Jean was President Bush's chief of staff during his post presidency years, and you might also recognize her name as she's the author of New York Times bestseller the Man I Knew the Amazing story of George H.W. bush's post presidency. Her latest book, Character Matters, is a collection of essays from those who knew him best, from world leaders to his family to Dana Carvey, who was his SNL impersonator. In this episode, Gene shares hilarious, poignant, and compelling stories about President Bush. Gene shares anecdotes about how he cast political differences aside, embraced bipartisanship, and put his country before himself. Gene and I taped this episode last week. My episodes usually come out a few weeks after they're taped, but I thought the example of the life and service of President Bush is a message that our seemingly divided country needs now more than ever. As I tape this, today is Election Day. And no matter how you feel the day after Election Day, either joyous about the election's outcome or licking your wounds, I hope the lessons and legacy of George H.W. bush can help us find common ground and come together as Americans. I loved every minute of my conversation with Jean, and I know that you will, too. And with that, here is the great Jean Becker. Jean, it's so terrific to see you. Thank you so much for being on this morning. It's Halloween morning.
- [01:52]
Jean Becker
It's Halloween morning, and I'm so glad you brought that up. Leslie. We just talked about that. This probably will not air for a while. So therefore, I was going to do this entire podcast as Minnie Mouse. But then I decided, yeah, that's not appropriate. If this doesn't air for it may even be December, the Minnie Mouse ears may throw off your viewers.
- [02:17]
Leslie Heaney
I've been suffering. My voice isn't usually this suggestive, Gene, or this deep. I have some sort of a cold. And yesterday I was kind of. I was battling that. And I kept thinking to myself, I've gotta get to Target to get some kind of a Halloween costume for Jean. Because I know you'd mentioned that you were gonna maybe wear your Minnie Mouse here. So I was thinking about, you know, something I could weave in here. But I never made it. Never made it over there. But I'm so delighted to see you and I'm so happy to be talking with you today on. On Halloween. Before we get to your amazing book, Character Matters, I wanted to kind of take you back. Cause I think it's so interesting for listeners to sort of hear the origins of people's relationships or what led you to write this book. How did you first meet President Bush 41?
- [03:05]
Jean Becker
Well, I think he was always sort of in a state of shock how I came into his life. I was a newspaper reporter. I was a newspaper reporter for USA Today, and I covered the 1988 election for USA Today. That, of course, was the year that he was elected. I was a member of USA Today's political team. So the first time I met then Vice President Bush, I was on Air Force Two, traveling with him. And finally, at the end of a very long day, I'd been begging all day for an interview. And finally we were flying back to D.C. and his press person came and said, okay, the vice president can give you five minutes right now. And I went up to the front. I still remember this. I went up to the front of the plane and I sat down. And he says, okay, what do you got? Well, you're the first words the man ever spoke to me. And years later, I teased him about it. And he said, I didn't say, nice to meet you, but no, you were tired. You had been campaigning all day. And you just looked at me and said, okay, what do you got?
- [04:14]
Leslie Heaney
I love that. I was gonna ask you, how did you throw that back at him later or give him ribbing about that later?
- [04:20]
Jean Becker
Well, he used to laugh. I was a newspaper reporter for 10 years, and I used to tease him, particularly as he would get frustrated at the media. I would remind him that his chief of staff was a former journalist. And he said. And he would say, what was I thinking? It was an inside joke between us for a long time.
- [04:40]
Leslie Heaney
So when did you shift from reporter to staffer? How did that happen?
- [04:45]
Jean Becker
Well. Oh, it's an interesting story. So during the 1988 campaign. Campaign, USA Today somehow convinced Barbara Bush and Kitty Dukakis. She was the spouse of Michael Dukakis, who was the Democratic candidate. They wrote a weekly column for USA Today. It ran every Monday in September and October. And it was a column sort of behind the scenes on the campaign trail. And I was their editor. I was the one that the two of them, usually I worked through. Their press secretaries would have to turn their column in every Sunday evening to me. And then I would have to. I wouldn't edit the column, but they always wrote too much. I would have to cut it.
- [05:27]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [05:28]
Jean Becker
And within a couple of weeks, Barbara Bush wanted to be in contact with me directly. She threw her press secretary out of the middle, because she disagreed with the decision that we had made. Anyway, I got to know her really, really well, Leslie. And I was stunned after the campaign when I was offered the job to be her deputy press secretary. And the backstory is, the press secretary was someone from the Hill who was working up on the Hill. The other deputy press secretary was from the campaign. And Marlon Fitzwater, President Bush's press secretary, had encouraged the first lady and her chief of staff to put someone who used to be a journalist in her press office. And they offered the job to me, and that I. My editor at USA Today was yelling at me. We were located in Arlington, Virginia, so on the other side of the Potomac. And when I told them I was going to take this job, he said, if you cross that river. If you cross that river, Gene, you will never come back.
- [06:39]
Leslie Heaney
You'll never be the same again.
- [06:41]
Jean Becker
Yeah, well, he was right. I never came back. So that's how I went to ward Barbara Bush at the White House.
- [06:51]
Leslie Heaney
Amazing. I mean, she was such an extraordinary, extraordinary lady.
- [06:55]
Jean Becker
Yes, she was.
- [06:56]
Leslie Heaney
So then you start working with Barbara, and then you're. Or I should say, Mrs. Bush, and she is at that time, first lady. And then how did you eventually segue into your position with 41?
- [07:07]
Jean Becker
So when he lost the election, Mrs. Bush asked me to come to Houston with them. She was gonna write her memoirs. And, Leslie, she would want me to tell you she wrote the memoirs herself. She was actually a great writer, but she needed someone to be a fact checker, to do research, and to be her editor, which was interesting. But she asked me if I'd be willing to move to Houston just for a year to help her with her autobiography. And I said, sure. I was honored. I'd be happy to do it. So it took us about a year, and about the time we were done, and I had a job waiting for me at the Chicago Sun Times. My old USA Today editor was now in Chicago and had reached out to me and said, come back.
- [07:55]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [07:56]
Jean Becker
And I was excited. I was excited to go live in Chicago. Anyway, President Bush, his first post presidency, chief of staff, had retired. She had told him, I will give you one year, and then I'm retiring. Her name was Rosa Maria, and she was older. And President Bush had no idea who to hire to be his chief of staff. And he was talking to me one day, and he said, would you be willing to stay just for three or four months? And it was exactly what he said. Leslie, to keep the seat warm, would you be allowed to keep the seat warm just to give me a chance. I need to figure this out who I can hire to be my permanent chief of staff. I told him no. I said, I don't know how to be a chief of staff. I've never been anyone's boss. I can barely bounce my checkbook, and you want me to run an office and do the budget? And I said no. And he said, gene, we'll make it up as we go. I just need for you to keep the seat warm.
- [08:55]
Leslie Heaney
Amazing.
- [08:56]
Jean Becker
And I swear I'm making this up. We never talked about it again. I just got busy. I hit the ground running. And I'll tell you what happened. This was March 1994. George and Jeb, their sons. George and Jeb were both running for governors of their respective states. And we were just off and running. And it's sort of like I forgot about it. He forgot about it. After about two years, I finally got business cards printed. Gene Becker Chief of Staff.
- [09:28]
Leslie Heaney
And did you even. You probably didn't even run it by him getting the approval on the Even.
- [09:33]
Jean Becker
What the truth is like 20 years later. I don't know why I brought it up to him. I reminded him of that conversation. I think it was the 20th anniversary of my being as chief of staff. I was chief of staff for nearly 25 years. By the time he died, I think it was on my 20th anniversary. I said, sir, for 20 years I've been waiting for you to walk into my office and say, oh, Gene, I found a chief of staff. He did not remember the conversation. I think he thought I made it up.
- [10:05]
Leslie Heaney
That is hilarious. So what was that? I mean, that's such an interesting time, right, For a president after a presidency and how they define their post presidency legacy. Obviously he hit the ground running with these two gubernatorial races for. For George W. And for Jeb, the library. I mean, all of these things, points of light, all these other projects that he took on.
- [10:27]
Jean Becker
You know, it took him. While I was working on the book with Mrs. Bush, when I think back of 19 on the year of 1993, which would have been his first year out of office, and I was just a fly on the wall, not working for him, but definitely observing with those keen journalism eyes. I think it took him about a year to figure out what was next. He was definitely licking his wounds. I mean, losing the election was not easy and he agreed to do a couple of things in 1993, but he took it easy. He did a lot of fishing. I'll be honest. He was writing a book with his national security advisor Brent Scowcroft. They were writing a book called A World Transformed. And that took up a lot of his time. But I do think one day in 1994, about the time I became his chief of staff, he woke up and thought, I'm back. Because he just. I credit George and Jeb's political races was sort of bringing their dad back to the forefront. But that is when he just. He, he. He and Mrs. Bush both, Leslie, raised hundreds of millions of dollars for a variety of good causes and charities. And President Bush just jumped in with both feet and he was just busier than ever. It was a lot of fun to work for him, but it could be exhausting. It wasn't unusual for me to put in an 80 hour week because as I said in my first book, the Man I Knew, there's a whole chapter that the title is I have an Idea. And as I said in that book, it was the four scariest words the man ever said to me.
- [12:16]
Leslie Heaney
Well, so some of those ideas, I mean, he mentioned raising hundreds of millions of dollars. I mean, he partnered with Clinton at one point for that global initiative. Right. And how much money did they raise from that? That was an extraordinary effort.
- [12:29]
Jean Becker
Oh, gosh. I once tried to count up how much they raised, and this will put it in perspective. The Bush Clinton Katrina Fund alone raised about 150 million.
- [12:42]
Leslie Heaney
Wow.
- [12:43]
Jean Becker
I think they raised close to half a billion dollars. They were in the disaster business and they needed the disaster itself. But they started with. In 2004, on Christmas Day, while the rest of us were eating Christmas dinner, a horrific tsunami came ashore in South Asia. The worst natural disaster possibly in the history of the world. I think something like 25,000 people. D& it was horrific. And the President States, who happened to be George W. Bush, asked his father if he would mind partnering with President Clinton to help all of our great nonprofits. American Red Cross, Doctors Without Borders, America's Promise. I mean, America Americares to help them. They were going to need millions of dollars to help the people in South Asia. And both of them said yes. And that was the beginning of their friendship, of their partnership. They brought so much good to the world. It was a legendary friendship and it served as a great example to the rest of the world.
- [13:51]
Leslie Heaney
It certainly did. That's one of the things I wanted to talk to you about in your book. Just really struck me, particularly in today's world, how many friends that George, George H.W. rather, and I'm sure Judge George W. Does too, across the aisle, and how he there just didn't seem to be party lines for him with those he'd work with and with his friendships.
- [14:13]
Jean Becker
Well, when President Bush, the first President Bush was president all four years, both houses of Congress were held by the Democrats.
- [14:21]
Leslie Heaney
Right.
- [14:22]
Jean Becker
And you know, I hate to say this, but in today's climate, he would have absolutely got nothing done. In today's climate, there is such a resistance to work together and somehow compromise has become a dirty word. And I'm not sure why or how, but President Bush accomplished so much by again working with the Democrats. The clean air bill. He passed what is still considered. It was really just a couple of amendments to the original Clean Air Act.
- [14:59]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [15:00]
Jean Becker
But they were huge. And they're still considered some of the best clean environmental legislation ever passed. And of course the Americans with Disabilities act was passed under him. Considered huge civil rights bill. And he did all of this working with the Democrats. Probably the most famous compromise he made was the 1990 budget deal. He was very worried about the deficit. Very worried. And he really wanted to balance the federal budget. And if you remember Leslie, in 1988 when he was running for president, President Bush made the famous promise, no new tax.
- [15:39]
Leslie Heaney
Yes.
- [15:40]
Jean Becker
Well, you Fast forward to 1990. Very worried again about the federal deficit, which of course was minuscule then compared to now. But in talking with the Democrats, he wanted them of course to cut funding to a lot of programs. And they said, okay, but only if you raise taxes. You know, we have to do both, we have to both cut funding and raise taxes to bring to balance the budget. And he literally wrote in his diary, this was a couple of months before he signed the deal. He said, I know what they're proposing, probably make me a one term president, but it's the right thing to do for the country. That diary entry, when it became public years later, sort of went viral. And it's the reason why the JFK library gave him the profiles and Concord is why President Obama gave him the Medal of Freedom award. But he signed that budget deal and he did lose his election in 1992. And probably one of the top reasons is that he, he lost the right wing of the Republican Party because of that budget deal. But ironically, 10 years later, the Wall Street Journal. I'll never forget when this op ed came out, the 1990s were very prosperous and the Wall Street Journal wrote sort of the retrospective on why.
- [17:15]
Leslie Heaney
Right.
- [17:16]
Jean Becker
One of the big reasons was the 1990 budget deal.
- [17:19]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah, isn't that amazing? I mean, as you're describing this, I'm getting for Klempt Gene. I mean it's just to see that kind of leadership is really that kind of leadership.
- [17:30]
Jean Becker
It is. You know, no matter what your politics are, you have to admire someone who knows they're probably ending their political career by doing what they think is the right thing. And, you know, between you and me, that should be all of our leaders, right? Well, not between you and me. Between you and me and all your viewers. Every person. I was going to say office Gene.
- [17:56]
Leslie Heaney
Reminder, we're on. You know, we're. We're recording here.
- [17:59]
Jean Becker
Nothing's between you and me, but, you know, every person we send to office, whether it's the county judge or the county clerk or the dog catcher to the President of the United States. Yeah. They're supposed to have our best interests at heart, not their own.
- [18:15]
Leslie Heaney
That's certainly right. And maybe this will be part of your answer to my next question. You wrote this incredible book, the Man I Knew, which was a bestseller. And then you, a few years later, have written this book, Character Matters. Why did you feel compelled to write this second book?
- [18:32]
Jean Becker
Oh, Leslie, I cannot tell you how much I would love to be able to say that Character Matters was my idea because it was a brilliant idea. It was my editor's idea. Sean Desmond. Sean Desmond was my editor at Hachette and having lunch with him in New York, and they were very pleased with the Man I knew. And he said, invited me to lunch. Let's talk about what's next for Gene Becker. So I had all these great ideas, and he listens to me pitch a couple of book ideas, and he's like, uh huh, uh huh, sure, okay, yeah, those are fine, but not now. He says, I want you to write another book where George Herbert Walker Bush is the star of the book. And lastly, I looked at him and said, sean, you do remember that he died at the end of the last book. I couldn't figure out where he thought I was gonna go with this. And he said, I think we have a lot more to learn from him. He said, so many of your stories in the Man I Knew were not only were they funny or touching, but there was just a great life lesson tucked into that story. And he says, let's do a whole book about life lessons from George Herbert Walker Bush. You know what? It was a great idea. It was a great idea.
- [19:57]
Leslie Heaney
So then you have this conversation, you decide you're going to move forward with it. How did you put together or decide who you wanted to reach out to for these anecdotes?
- [20:06]
Jean Becker
Well, that's such a great question. And it was a process. After really thinking this through, I decided I could not write this book. This book could not be in My Voice. This is what Gene Becker learned from George Herbert Walker Bush. Yeah. That will be of great interest to the whole world. I mean, who cares? So what I did, and Sean loved the idea. The book is a series of essays from people who knew him best. And I wanted to. He has such a broad range of friends, and I was really hoping that an entire broad range of friends could be included. So I reached out to some of his former head of state friends. Very few, quite frankly, who were still alive. Yeah. Reached out to John Major of Great Britain, Brian Larroney of Canada, who has since died. Yeah. Sent me a wonderful essay before he died, all the way to interns. And one of my favorite essays in the book is from the young man who used to mow the yard at Walker's Point.
- [21:12]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [21:12]
Jean Becker
And then everybody in between. And then on top of that, I have an email blast. I'm not on social media, which is odd. I know I'm a very early 20th century woman. I guess I'm not with you, Jean, but I do have an email blast that goes out to about a thousand Bush family and friends that I started years ago just to keep people updated on what's going on with them. And even though they're gone, I still keep it up. There's still things I can send them. So I just sent out an email to that group of people and said, hey, I'm doing this book. If you have something, a story, an example, if you can contribute. So, Leslie, I was hoping I would get maybe 50 essays, 50 stories. There's 154 in this book. My inbox just started filling up. It was amazing.
- [22:05]
Leslie Heaney
It's amazing. And I think out of all the different people that you included, what would you say is sort of the common theme or experience for those that knew him well, you know, what a big.
- [22:17]
Jean Becker
Heart he has and how decisive he was. I ended up dividing. It took me a while to figure out how to organize this book. And then, as when I looked at the stories, these things just started coming through. He was very decisive. And, you know, things like Desert Storm and things like, quite frankly, taking out Noriega and Panama. All of his former staff said he was the best at listening to both sides of the argument, you know, thinking through what should or shouldn't be done. And then he would make up his mind, and then he would do it. And I'm going to tell you a quick story that's a funny story about how he was such a man of action. So he was very good friends with a man named Prince Bandar, who for years, I think for 30 some years was the ambassador from Saudi Arabia to the United States. And President Bush and Prince Bandar were very close. And at some point, it was like around 2012 probably, I can't remember the exact year Bandar was back in Saudi Arabia. He basically was heading the equivalent of the Saudi CIA, and he had just disappeared from sight, and nobody had seen or heard from him in months. And someone who used to work for Secretary James A. Baker, a woman named Margaret Tutwiler, called me one night and said the rumors are everywhere that Bandar has been assassinated. And she wanted to know if we had heard anything. And my answer was, no, we haven't heard a thing. And she wanted me, as she discreetly put it, to check my sources. What she wanted me to do was to call the CIA, because the CIA, President Bush was head of the CIA for a couple of years in the 70s. They revered him. They always had an analyst assigned to him who, you know, if he wanted a deb briefing on some topic, there was an analyst that was his person that he could call and go to. So I called the then analysts, a wonderful woman, and asked her about Bandar. And she said, yes, we're aware that he is missing. We are fearful. They thought the Syrians had assassinated him, blah, blah, blah. So then Margaret called me back the next day and she said, the French press have just announced that Bandar has been assassinated by the Syrians. And she said, if you haven't told him, you need to tell him now because it's gonna be on CNN in about a half hour. So I'm like, oh, boy. So we were in Kennebunkport. We're actually sitting outside on a golf cart enjoying the weather, going through some work. And I told him, and it was hard to tell him. And he looked at me and he said, have you called him? Have you called Bandar? And I said, no, it' no, sir, of course I haven't called Prince Bandar. And he says, well, let's get up on the phone. And I just sort of looked at him like, okay. So I holler into the open window of the office and ask his aide to see if he can get Bandar on the phone. And 10 seconds later, Jimmy leans out the window and said, prince Bandar online. What? And President Bush picks up the phone. I remember this viewer yesterday, he says, hey, Bandar, George Bush, hey, man, are you dead or alive. Everybody here thinks you're dead. Uh huh. Uh huh. And then he looked at me and said, stop it, he's alive. And I said, yeah, I get that. Anyway, Bandar was alive and well. He was in hiding.
- [26:08]
Leslie Heaney
Oh, and he had the number.
- [26:10]
Jean Becker
He had. President Bush had a number. And so anyway, it was such a great moment. And Bandar's still alive and well, by the way, and his daughter is now the ambassador from Saudi Arabia to the United States. Bandar came to the funeral. He's alive and well. But President Bush got off the phone and he said, gene, this is a great life lesson for you. If there's ever any doubt or confusion on whether someone's dead or alive, call them and say, enter the phone. They're alive. I mean, you can't make that up. Blessing.
- [26:48]
Leslie Heaney
Well, when I asked you the question about common theme, one of the things that I was gonna suggest is his sense of humor. I mean. His sense of humor.
- [26:58]
Jean Becker
Yes.
- [26:59]
Leslie Heaney
I mean, that is hilarious.
- [27:01]
Jean Becker
It's hilarious. But you know what? And I use that story a lot, particularly when, well, talking to everybody. But young kids particularly get a big kick out of it. But you know, we're all guilty of overthinking things.
- [27:15]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [27:17]
Jean Becker
You know, I need to sleep on it or I need to call 10 people or I better put together a committee. That was so not President Bush. He was such a man of action. And I'll never. I felt bad. Cause I should have called the analyst at the CIA. He didn't. She called me a couple hours after this whole phone call and said, gene, we still don't have proof, but I think you probably should tell him that Bandar's probably dead. So I took a deep breath and I told her. And she said, oh my God, we need to put that man back on payroll. And of course, everybody wanted to know what phone number he had.
- [28:00]
Leslie Heaney
I know.
- [28:01]
Jean Becker
And President Bush said to me, yeah, don't worry about that.
- [28:04]
Leslie Heaney
I mean, it's amazing. Well, you probably. I mean, I can't even imagine all the secret phone numbers, Gene, that you, you had during that time. And the fact that phone numbers, a.
- [28:16]
Jean Becker
Lot of email addresses.
- [28:17]
Leslie Heaney
Yep.
- [28:18]
Jean Becker
I had the best Rolodex in the world, Leslie. For a very long time. Not anymore. But for a while. For a while, my Rolodex probably would have been worth millions of dollars.
- [28:29]
Leslie Heaney
I mean, between that and Jimmy also, Jimmy getting him on the phone, he must have. The aide must have had it too.
- [28:35]
Jean Becker
Yes, yes, he did.
- [28:37]
Leslie Heaney
But I think, you know, you touching on that though. And his personal relationships with people. The thing that, you know, sort of has struck me about him is the time that he would take to foster those relationships. And the notes that he would write people. I mean, he would write my father notes, you know, later in his life, just thoughts and thanking them for friendship and just so gracious and magnanimous.
- [29:00]
Jean Becker
He was. He was maybe the biggest people person who ever lived. He loved. He stayed in touch with his friends and with. With letters and emails and, you know, and to your point about how, you know, all these friends he had, you know, there's also people like Dana carvey and Reba McIntyre in the book.
- [29:22]
Leslie Heaney
Yes.
- [29:22]
Jean Becker
And Dana Carvey's story is one. Of course, Dana Carvey became famous imitating President Bush. And this is so George Bush. They became best friends.
- [29:33]
Leslie Heaney
Oh, my.
- [29:34]
Jean Becker
They became best friends. And Dana to this day just worships the ground the man walked on. And you can't make that up. But Dana's essay in the book is, it's election day 2004, and George W. The president of the United States is in a close reelection campaign. John Kerry is the Democratic candidate. President Bush and Mrs. Bush are actually at the White House with their son and a nervous wreck. And he called Dana Carvey on election day just to check in to see how he was. And Dana says, as Dana says in the book, he was just so surprised. And he said, Mr. President, isn't it an election day? I'm thinking there's some other things you're thinking about. Yes, yes, we're nervous wreck here. But just I was thinking about you. Dana decided to give you a call. And, you know, Brent Scowcroft, his national security advisor, tells the story that President Bush, when he was president, called the head of state every single day. And he didn't wait for there to be a crisis or some huge issue that needed to be discussed. He made sure he called somebody every single day. And it wasn't just our G7 partners. Allies. He would call presidents in South America, Africa, Asia. And General Scowcroft said he once had read somewhere that the son of a president in Africa, their son had scored the winning goal for the soccer team. So President Bush called him and congratulated him.
- [31:15]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah, but you know, that sort of soft touch or that the building of relationships outside of interacting with people for political reasons or just having to run the government is really. That is where those connections are made. And that's the secret sauce, I think, to his magic.
- [31:33]
Jean Becker
Right, because you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right.
- [31:36]
Leslie Heaney
And I think if More of that was done in Washington today. Someone was explaining to me that Washington has changed so much in the past few decades because a lot of congressmen are. You know, they bunk in with other congressmen. They're flying back to their districts. They're not in Washington with their families, with their spouses, socializing with people across the aisle. You know, they just aren't building those relationships and having that human connection. It's the human connection that helps you find the common ground when you're in those tough spots. Right.
- [32:07]
Jean Becker
Leslie, I'm convinced that you had this conversation with George Bush.
- [32:12]
Leslie Heaney
Maybe it was actually. Yeah.
- [32:14]
Jean Becker
He couldn't agree with you more. And he said when he was in Congress, he was a congressman from Houston from 1966 until 1972 terms. And, of course, the whole family moved to D.C. and President Bush said that all their kids went to school together, their spouses were involved in volunteer work together. They played on the weekends or before meeting the house, they played racquetball. The Bushes had a huge backyard barbecue every Sunday afternoon.
- [32:49]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [32:49]
Jean Becker
It invited people from both sides of the aisle. And President Bush said that he could not. If he were here. He would love what you just said, Leslie. He said going home every weekend has destroyed that personal connection, that help. Back in the day, members of Congress actually work together. They don't know each other personally. And of course, now they just spend so much time on social media and, you know, it's. They. They don't spend time with each other.
- [33:24]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah. I mean, which is also happening, you know, outside of Congress. Right. That's happening in our broader society. But. But I do. It's. It really. The fact that he took that time and he understood the importance of building those relationships and writing those notes and calling, you know, the son of the African prince who got scored the goal is just, you know, amazing. And my father always tells a story about him, that he called him when my parents were getting divorced just to see how he was doing.
- [33:50]
Jean Becker
Oh, gosh. I love their. And there's a number of stories like that in the book about former staff and about how, I think he was vice president when a staffer's parent had died or someone had died and she got called into his office and she thought she was in trouble for something because something hadn't quite gone right with a recent interview or something. Anyway, he just wanted to know how she was doing.
- [34:22]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [34:23]
Jean Becker
Just wanted to wrap his arms around her and give her comfort. So he was something else.
- [34:30]
Leslie Heaney
You mentioned Dana Carvey, one of the other ones that struck Me in the book is Maureen Dowd, who, as you know, is a columnist for the New York Times and probably doesn't have many political commonalities necessarily with President Bush, but they had a relationship.
- [34:47]
Jean Becker
They had a relationship. And one of the things that struck me about Maureen's essay that she wrote for the book, I did not realize this, Leslie, until I did this book. George Herbert Walker Bush was a man ahead of his time on how he treated women in the workplace. And I knew how he treated me. He was very respectful. I knew he respected my opinion, and I felt so comfortable working with him. But I didn't realize until I started reading these essays sent in. I think there's five essays in the book written by women. One is Condi Rice. Condi's email is one of my favorite essays in the book. And she talks about she's a young black woman on the national security staff. They brought her in from Stanford, and everyone's older and more experienced in government affairs. But President Bush pulled her out of the back row of people to introduce her to Mikhail Gorbachev at their first meeting in Malta and in front of Secretary James Baker and his whole team, in front of all the Soviets, he says, this is Condoleezza Rice. This is who I listen to on all things Soviet. And Condi makes the point in her essay. Everybody wonders, how can you empower women, and particularly, how do you empower women of color or minorities? And Condi said, this is how you do it. You know, this is. And there was an. It's so powerful how she writes it. But the point that Maureen makes is that she feels strongly that male reporters, but particularly male columnists, which she is, can get away with a lot more than women. That women columnists, if they write something that somebody that a man in particular doesn't like or thinks is a little tough, they immediately write her off as, for lack of a better word, a bitch.
- [37:00]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [37:01]
Jean Becker
Whereas a male columnist, you know, they, she just feels they can get away with more. And she makes a point in her essay that she she never felt that from President Bush. He respected her professionally and for what her job was. He would get really mad at her. And she talks about the back and forth they would have where she would. She was particularly tough on his son, and he would let her have it. And then at the end of one email or letter that he wrote her where he pretty well let her have it, the whole letter, he said, but, Maureen, I still love you, and if you ever need a shoulder to cry on, call me. I think it was after that letter exchange that I suggested to the two of them they get marriage counseling. Well, nothing counseling. But she really appreciated. She knew that he looked at her as an equal to her male counterpart.
- [37:58]
Leslie Heaney
Right.
- [37:59]
Jean Becker
And I, gosh, I confess I was sort of proud of him.
- [38:02]
Leslie Heaney
Well, I love that. Condi Rice's response to you just sort of. You ask how you can empower women or empower women of color. It's to do exactly what he did. Right.
- [38:12]
Jean Becker
Just do it. There's another woman, her name is Bobby Kilberg, and she was offered a senior White House position in his presidency. And she told him she had two or three little kids at home. And she said, Mr. President, I would love to. Or at that time, he would have been the vice president. Still. This was during the transition. She said, I don't think I can serve you well enough because I have youngsters at home. And what he said to her was, okay, let's talk about how we can make this work for you. What do you need? And that's what they did. She got the job, but she didn't have to come be there at 7 o'clock every morning for senior staff meeting. She was not expected to travel with him. And there were a couple of other things. But Bobby said, he basically said, okay, let's make this work, rather than say, oh, okay, nevermind. Yeah, you know, he was a man ahead of his time for sure.
- [39:10]
Leslie Heaney
I mean, in so many ways this is slightly off topic, but it's always been something I've been curious about. Can we talk about his skydiving a little bit? I mean, I always kept thinking to myself, isn't once enough? Isn't. Isn't once enough? You know, like so. And there's a story too, in the book from those that he. Right. People that he was skydiving with.
- [39:32]
Jean Becker
Right. Yes, yes. You know, President Bush, he would. I know what I'm about ready to tell you is absolutely true. But he was sort of hesitant to admit this. You know, he was a member of the greatest generation. And they just didn't really talk that much about their war experiences. But President Bush was shot down during World War II. The 80th anniversary was just this past September. His two crew members lost his life. And he talked about and wrote about that. He thought about those two men every day the rest of his life. But he was shot down during combat. It didn't go well. He had banged his head on the side of his plane door going down. His parachute did open, but it was damaged. He didn't have his life. He was supposed to have a lifeboat. He didn't have it, but one of his squadron mates dropped a lifeboat into the water for him. Anyway, it was scary and messy and obviously not fun. He needed a do over. I think he wanted to find out what it would be like to parachute when it's all sweetness and light. And so he first parachuted. It was 1997. He was, would have been like 75 or so, or a little young. He was in his 70s and oh my gosh, he just loved it. He loved it and he became addicted to it. And his last pair of shoes was on his 90th birthday.
- [41:01]
Leslie Heaney
I know. I was so worried about his knees. I'm like, what's going to. I mean, how is this going to work?
- [41:06]
Jean Becker
He was already in a wheelchair. He'd been diagnosed with Parkinson's. And I couldn't talk him. His doctor begged me to talk him out of it, so I couldn't. So I called his oldest son And I said, Mr. President, I need help. Your dad is planning on parachuting on his 90th birthday. You've got to stop this. And number 43, as we call them, said to me, well, Gene, what's your biggest concern? And I said, well, I wanted to say, well, what the hell do you think I think this concern is? And I said, well, I'm afraid he's going to die, sir. And he said, gene, let me just say this. As his oldest son, I obviously don't want him to die. Like, don't take this away from him. This is what he wants to do. And I'm just saying right now, if he dies perishing on his 90th birthday, it's how he would wanna go out. But if we take this away from him, he needs things to look forward to and to be excited about. So I saw his point. But I did say, you're the one who. You need to talk to your mother about this. Cause she was really upset about it. And you know, he skydived and he did well. And he was hoping to skydive on his 100th birthday, but he didn't quite make it that far.
- [42:29]
Leslie Heaney
Amazing. Is there any. I mean, there's so many. I know there's so many. So maybe it's not. It's too tough of a question for you to answer, but is there any favorite personal lesson or moment that you had with him?
- [42:41]
Jean Becker
You know, I would say it was. There's some great stories in the book that illustrate this, but he was one of the biggest thinkers I knew And I think, you know, a lot of us, when we think about planning something or, you know, taking a risk or taking a gamble, we're sort of hesitant to do that. And one of President Bush's favorite quotes was from the great hockey legend Wayne Gretzky, who said, once you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. And that was George Herbert Walker Bush. One of the biggest fights we ever had. And this is in the book, the Man I knew, he wanted to invite George Clooney to go to this event with him. And I'm like, no, he's not gonna go. We don't know him. We don't know anyone who knows him. George Clooney is not going to this event with you. It was to go to Cameron, Louisiana, that had been destroyed by a hurricane, and we were giving them $3 million to rebuild their emergency room. And President Bush thought it would be fun to invite the star of ER to go with him. And Leslie, the problem was with Bushes and watching ER in reruns on tbs. And so I said, no, no, no. And I hope you can see this just in case I had a chance to tell the story. Wait, there's a picture of them in Cameron, Louisiana. I mean, George Clooney, he came, and it's sort of a long story on how it came about that he actually came. But again, it's such a great story. It's funny, it's touching, but he was so right. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. And his attitude was, let's try to get George Clooney. If he says no, then whatever. But he says yes. Bingo.
- [44:44]
Leslie Heaney
I love it.
- [44:45]
Jean Becker
That's life lesson from him.
- [44:47]
Leslie Heaney
Oh, I love that. I love that story, Gene. And I, you know, when I first reached out to you about being on the podcast, you know, we talked about this a little bit earlier. I'd wanted to, you know, have. Have this conversation kind of during election season. And we are on the. On the cusp of it right now. But, you know, hearing these stories about him and reading the book, it just harkens back to a time that I hope we can get back to as a country where we focus on where we can find common ground and one another's humanity and character. And he was such an incredible example of that.
- [45:20]
Jean Becker
He was an incredible example. And lastly, I. I would love to read something very briefly from the book. Yes, it's a. I don't know where our country will be when this airs, but I fear we may be sort of in Turbulent waters.
- [45:36]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [45:36]
Jean Becker
And this is something that President Bush wrote in his diary the night he lost the election to Bill Clinton. And it's what I love about this. Well, there's so many things I love about this diary entry, but it's him giving himself advice through his diary, and it's very brief. So I would just love to read this to you.
- [45:56]
Leslie Heaney
Yes, please.
- [45:57]
Jean Becker
It's 12:15 in the morning, November 4th. The election is over. It has come and gone. It's hard to describe the emotions of something like this. The job is not finished, and it just kills me now into bed, prepared for tomorrow. Be strong, be kind, be generous of spirit, be understanding, and let people know how grateful you are. Don't get even comfort the ones I've hurt and let down. Say your prayers and ask for God's understanding and strength. Finish with a smile and some gusto and do what's right and finish strong. Oh, my God. I just love that it's diary entry.
- [46:50]
Leslie Heaney
I don't have Kleenex here on my table, and I wish I did, but, I mean, I.
- [46:56]
Jean Becker
Just.
- [46:57]
Leslie Heaney
To have those thoughts in the midst of what was really, as we talked about at the outset, a really painful loss is just speak so much about him.
- [47:07]
Jean Becker
It says everything you need to know about the man. The character does matter.
- [47:13]
Leslie Heaney
The character does matter. And, Jean, I mean, just what a wonderful experience to be at the right hand of such an extraordinary person for so long and being such a wonderful person yourself.
- [47:26]
Jean Becker
That's very sweet for you to say. I had the best job in America, and he's been gone for six years. It'll be six years, November 30th. And, Leslie, once in a while, he would look at me and say, you know what? It's almost hard for me to remember that I was president. He says, it just all seems so real now that that actually happened. And now I know what he meant. I look back on my time with him, Leslie. I grew up on a farm in Missouri, and I look back at the 25 years I was with him, and I think, did that really happen? I was blessed.
- [48:02]
Leslie Heaney
Oh, what a wonderful, wonderful legacy, though, Gene, that both he left and you left working with him. I'm really grateful to you for taking the time.
- [48:11]
Jean Becker
Thank you.
- [48:12]
Leslie Heaney
Being on Today, I enjoyed every minute. I wish that I had gotten my act together to get my costume so we could have gone Minnie Mouse to, I don't know, crown. I was trying to figure out what I could wear with my headphones. Maybe like a Statue of Liberty thing. I was talking about that something around my neck. I'm so delighted to see you. I'm so grateful to you for sharing these stories. What I think are really important for people to hear, especially now. So thank you so much. Jean.
- [48:37]
Jean Becker
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
- [48:40]
Leslie Heaney
So that brings us to the end of this episode of the interview. A huge thank you to Jean Becker again for joining. I hope you all run out to BI Character matters. It's the perfect book that we all need right now. If you enjoyed this episode, I hope you'll rate or review us on Apple Podcast or Spotify. A new episode comes out every Wednesday, and until then, this is Leslie Heaney, and don't forget to join us on the interview.