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- [00:00]
A
Foreign Hi, this is Leslie and you are listening to the interview with Leslie Heaney. We're kicking off 2025, right. I would say, first of all, wishing you all a very happy new year. My next guest and my next episode is on a topic that I have a lot of interest in. And you know, it's one of the things that I dream about doing with my own family and that is an African safari. I think all of us would agree it's a once in a lifetime trip. And because of that, the cost and the difficulties of traveling there and all the variety of places that you can visit, it's a trip that we all want to get right. I know all of us want to see incredible animals and awe inspiring landscapes, but we really have no idea where to start. And that of course is where my incredible guest comes in. And that is Claudia Church, who is a partner at N3 Collective. So N3 Collective is a boutique company that specializes in travel in Africa. And it was started by three friends who met as expats in London. And from there they became travel companions throughout Africa in search of experiences that were wild and luxurious and private and unique. And through their travels, they met native Africans who, you know, they regard really as the true experts of their countries and different regions. And these people expose them to experiences that they couldn't find or research on their own. So these women, this company and three was kind of born out of their dream of offering these incredible experiences to others. And thankfully you, my listeners, will have an experience to hear from one of these incredible women, one of these magicians behind these incredible African safaris and trips. And that's Claudia Church. In this episode, Claudia and I talk about the do's and don'ts of safari planning, where and when we should all start thinking about it and planning and about all the amazing places to visit and incredible and unique experiences people can have visiting the African continent. So I learned so much from my conversation with Claudia. I cannot wait to get working on my bucket list trip to Africa with these incredible women. And for all any of you who've always dreamed to go on safari or visit Africa, this episode is for you. Claudia, so nice to see you. Thank you so much for being here.
- [02:34]
B
Thank you, Leslie. I'm so pleased to be here.
- [02:37]
A
Occasionally I'll do topics that are sort of selfish, like what I, what do I want to know more about? I guess all of my topics are things I want to know more about or people I want to know more about. But Safaree, you are the co founder of the Three Collective. And it is a group that helps put together incredible safaris for people and families. And a safari trip, as I know you know, from the work that you do, is sort of on everyone's life bucket list. But it's a trip that requires kind of expert and very careful planning. Right. Because you're not just going to Florida for the weekend. There's a lot of variables and important things you have to think about. But before we get into the weeds on that, all the things I need to do to plan for my. My Africa safari. Tell me a little bit about you and about the Three Collective, which is the name of your group.
- [03:27]
B
Yes, it's Anne's 3 Collective, which in retrospect, has confused everybody. But we are a very small boutique travel company that specializes in Africa. In fact, I think what makes us different from the many companies that do Africa is that we're Africa only. We eat, breathe, sleep, Africa. So we are obsessed, we're passionate. We're there a lot between the three of us.
- [03:52]
A
There's three of us, hence the M3.
- [03:55]
B
Hence the M3. Myself in the United States, my partner Stephanie, who is in London, and my partner Lynae, who is in Sydney, though she's South African. And we collaborate on all and we meet up on the continent as often as we can. And so our collective knowledge really fills in the gaps when. When we don't know something or we want to bounce ideas off or we've got, you know, what would go. Do you think this would go well with this? So it really is a collective experience. You get input from all of us, which is nice.
- [04:29]
A
So how did you all meet? How did you three get. Get collected? I mean, how did that start?
- [04:34]
B
We were all expats living in London, and I would say Stephanie was the glue. She had been working for a small company out of Kenya for a while, and she brought Linnae and I on to grow the business in our respective places that we call home. I think different time zones and different lives. We're not on top of each other, but we really compliment each other. We're very different, and it's just fun. We've really hit a niche of travelers that are after experience, experience in new ways. It really is people looking for something that's out of the norm that you can't Google. We don't do any set itineraries. It was. It was also built on the fact that we would see people travel to Africa time and time again on their bucket list, trip, spend a lot of time and money to get there and have a great time because it's Africa but really miss out on, on what you could be doing. They were traveling with one company and maybe going around to all those that company's lodges. That's a bummer because you're. It's too, the, the continent countries are too big and too varied not to do it properly.
- [05:46]
A
I found you all through Instagram through looking at my friends posts and there were so many different families that, that I'm close friends with who I would see them do. The little whatever it is, the not your tagline, your address, but N3 collective. And each of their posts, each of their pictures were so different. That's one of the things that struck me. All their experiences were so different and I thought, gosh, I need to meet the people behind these incredible, incredible trips. So let's pretend like I'm contacting you, which is going to happen as soon as I can find out. One of my budget questions is next. So as soon as I hit that number I'm going to be calling you hopefully the next year.
- [06:30]
B
Hmm.
- [06:31]
A
Let's say I contact you or someone contacts you and they said I want. I'm. We've been talking about this, my family, you know, this is just a trip we have always dreamed of going on. We you know, help us, help us plan our trip. What is the first thing that you kind of ask of them or what, what should you know? What's that first question?
- [06:51]
B
The first question I would want to know whether you've been to Africa before or not. If you're a first timer or if you've been where you went, what you loved, what you didn't love. Who's in your group? Are you traveling solo or honeymooners or big extended family? I would say the bulk of our travelers are families or two families traveling together or multi gen, big multi gen trips. But I want to know the dynamics of your family and what your greatest hopes are for the trip and what you want to avoid at all costs. I think we really, because we're so small, we really value taking the time to get to know the traveler because everybody's different and every country is so different. So learning what you're after helps kind of hone in on the country and then the kind of experiences that you're going to have. If you've got, you know, a gaggle of kids, I might send you in one direction. If you are super refined and interested in art and history and food as well as safari, off to South Africa would be the best. So Every country has a vibe and I have my favorites for different things, but it really depends on the travelers. And we've never done the same trip twice ever.
- [08:08]
A
So amazing. It's so, I mean, I. We're doing a role play here. I have been to South Africa and I've been to Kruger on safari.
- [08:16]
B
Nice.
- [08:16]
A
My husband and we've been to Zimbabwe to a lodge after having gone to a singita in South Africa. We've been to one in Zimbabwe. But as you pointed out, Africa, of course we all know, is a continent and all the different countries are so, you know, so unique and distinct and have their own. All the different countries that have safaris, I should say, have their own sort of wonderful attributes right. About. About them and reasons to want to go visit them. So you probably can't answer this for every country, but, but generally is there a better time of year to go on safari? And I'm sorry, I'm sure that's kind of dependent right. On which country you go to, but.
- [08:55]
B
It is dependent on which country you go to. But in general, you're going to do great in the summer and over Christmas, which is nice because if people are traveling with kids, the times that line up with your breaks are awesome. So in East Africa, the, the weather's going to be almost the same all the time, like Kenya's right on the equator. So you're going to have sunny days and beautiful chilly mornings and evenings. But you just want to watch out for rainy seasons depending on where you are. And if you travel, say in the summer in Southern Africa, the seasons are reversed, but that's actually winter is their best time for game viewing because animals need water and so it's just, it explodes and a little side check. But Botswana in the summer, which is their winter, is when the Okavango Delta floods. So now you've got animal action in the water and it is spectacular. So it's always a good time to go to Africa. I would just avoid little pockets of rainy seasons.
- [09:55]
A
So you can advise people of that. But that's so great though for people that are thinking about doing it to know that you know those two sort of timeframes, right. Summer or kind of holiday Christmas time are optimal times because, you know, that's so great that that lines up with, with kids schedules too.
- [10:13]
B
Exactly. And then there's sneaky times to go, like a spring break in March, say where you're going to get. Do better on cost too if you're going in a slightly off peak season. So there's nice Ways to kind of move around that too.
- [10:28]
A
Well, Claudia, that leads me to my next question. Brought up that. So let's talk about budget. Is there sort of a general range that you share with people when I contact you?
- [10:38]
B
I mean, there's a huge range because there's so many ways to do Africa. There's a bar, a standard that we don't go below because there's horrible ways to do Africa.
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A
Yeah.
- [10:48]
B
You know, you've seen those nightmare pictures of, of vehicles and vehicles and vehicles in the Mara. That's what we are completely allergic to. So the reason for cost is not necessarily, oh, this has to be fancy because that's not what we're about. We do have fancy clients who want that kind of refinement and top end. But most of our people are really after the authentic. Authentic.
- [11:14]
A
Yeah.
- [11:14]
B
Getting to the, getting to the heart of what Africa means to them. It's such a healing and transformative place. So we chase experience. And where cost might come into that is whether you're on a private concession, which costs more, so you're going to have less people around you. There's only, you can have a few vehicles on a certain sighting and it's just less dense versus being in a public park. So that's really where that those numbers kind of come in. And the reason safari is so expensive is because we will only use places that are doing right by conservation. So a big chunk of your money is going back to that land that that lodge or camp is on. So you're, you're actually helping by, by being there. You're, you're. It. It makes a huge difference. It keeps them alive. It's, they're symbiotic with the tribal cultures that are there in East Africa, for example. But I'm not answering your question.
- [12:08]
A
No, I just, it's funny you said. I, I never, I never realized the connection between the cost and the concession piece of, of the public. Because when you're going into. For example, when I went to Kruger in South Africa and we had, we had went to a, a lodge there, a Singita lodge there, and they had their own concession. Right. Meaning that they were the, they were given a certain piece of Kruger that sort of designated as theirs. We drove up for a while before we got into a smaller plane and went by kind of a public area or a public, a public concession. People were driving in and out and it's almost like you're, you know, harken back to my days growing up in New Jersey. Like you were at Great Adventure on the, you know, it's, it's, it can get very, it can be a much different experience than what you're talking about.
- [12:57]
B
There's, there's situations to avoid at all costs. It's not good for the travelers, it's not good for the animals. So we will only do, we don't do only private concessions. There's pockets and, you know, beautiful parts of national parks. But you just need to know how to do it properly and how to just, you know, stay away. We really are as much as you can be on your own, as much as you're having your experience, that's what we're after. And some of my favorite camps are not the fancy ones at all. They are such gems. We are a high end company. But on average our trips are running at about 2,500 with all the bells and whistles, 3,000 per person per day. Now that number, some people would be like, it's not even in the realm. And for a very long time we, you know, we're not going to drop below a certain standard because it's not delivering on what we, you know, our promises. But we were turning away so many people. And what we want to do is get people to Africa because it really, it's just the most magnificent experience that everybody should be able to have. So we have recently partnered with some others who can do it at a different level price point. So we don't ever want to turn anybody away ever again.
- [14:15]
A
Once you go there to experience it and you see just, you see sort of what goes into making that experience happen. From the, the airplane flights to the guides, to the guides bringing in, you know, whether it's a tented safari or the food or the, all of these things, you kind of really get a sense of why the price is the price. Right. Because it's just, it's not like to your point, while you're doing things in a very high, high end way, you're just making it possible. You know, there's a certain cost to make it possible because it is, you're, you're in Africa.
- [14:49]
B
Yeah. And it's a different beast. Like you said, it's not, you know, it's not going to Europe and figuring out your best hotel. It's, it is so intricate and every piece makes a difference from it. It takes a tremendous amount of people to run a lodge or a camp, get the food in, transport, get equipment in and the food is outrageous. You can't believe how good the food is. But it's also our numbers will Include everything from the moment you land in Africa to the moment you depart. So that includes all your internal flights and transfers. You know, you're flying around in little planes to get from point A to point B, which is just part of safari because the distances are vast and you want your trip to be really varied in different ecosystems, different experience, a different accommodations. So you don't have any surprises. It's. And you don't. The beautiful thing too is, you know, when we have these big families that come, you know, moms don't have to think that this is in the books. Yes, think, where am I going? What time do I need to be ready? Where do we need to be?
- [15:54]
A
What you should have that be your tagline on the. Or some kind of advertisement of, you know, that would. Moms don't have to think. It's just, I mean, that's. I just signed up. I just signed up. But tell me you talked about Claudia, like all the varied landscapes and the varied experiences without. I mean, I'm sure you could go into a deep dive on each country, but what would you say? So the countries that are sort of most popular or most known for safari. Kenya, Tanzania, Botswana, Zambia, South Africa. What are the sort of most frequented and what is each country known for? Would you say?
- [16:31]
B
Okay, great question. I would say East Africa would be Kenya and Tanzania. Kenya for my heart is in Kenya for families. It's where I brought my own family over and over again. And the reason being that they're the most flexible there to get out of the vehicle and be active. So it's not just a lot of people worry about kids being in vehicles for long stretches of time. Are they going to get bored? Not on our watch. We can get them out depending on where you go. On horseback, on camelback, jumping into waterfalls. Some places have e bikes, get out on foot. Helicopters are the most fun ever. Jumping into sand dunes, landing in remote places. So there is no way that kids will be bored in Africa. Our guides will throw them behind the wheel and teach them how to drive. We are not the normal safari company. We really do things differently. It's a very intimate experience. And Kenya allows for that, which I love. But I mean, my goodness, Tanzania is amazing when you go. And the islands off of both of those, which can be cool to either start or finish. And then southern Africa, I would say it's either the most popular would be South Africa or Botswana or a combo of the two. Botswana is really just such a holy grail for safari goers. It is pristine wilderness. Their Conservation model. They're the most expensive country to go to, and that is their conservation model. So that's. They are prohibitively expensive. They keep people out. So for the fortunate ones that can go there, once you're there, there is nobody around, and it is magnificent.
- [18:15]
A
Is that topography. And I don't know if I'm thinking of. If I'm thinking of Botswana, but is there more sand dunes there as well? Is it more. There are areas of that that are less dense with vegetation. Botswana, I mean, I'm just getting all my information from Prince Harry and I, you know, and I mean, I. I read about in Spare his whole. I'm like, trying to visualize it, but is that what it's, you know, sand dunes and kind of.
- [18:38]
B
Botswana is flat, flat, flat. But the most amazing thing is when the. When the Okavango Delta floods and all these waters come in from Angola, it creates. It's wet and it creates these little islands with palm trees that you drive through the water and there's animals on these little islands and there's animals through the water. But you could also combine it with the Kalahari Desert, also in Botswana. So now you've got, you know, you've got awesome safari with then a desert element. And now you're racing around on. On quad bikes or, you know, riding horses across nothing. Like. Like you feel like you're on the moon and there's, you know, zero noise pollution, zero light pollution. It's fantastic. So I would say in every trip, we do as much as we can vary it. That's. That's just the best thing because there's so much good stuff to do. And then South Africa, I mean, the safari is incredible. The lodges, there's not. I would say East Africa is distinguished by tented camps. Mobile tented camps is very East African. That's our favorite thing to do. We love that it's as close as nature as you can get. You are zero footprint, but it's still so comfy and nice and fun and exclusive to you. Southern Africa is going to be more lodges like the Singita that you were in. They are impeccable. They are beautiful. Decor, food, wine, art, safari, all goes hand in hand there. And you could mix Cape Town, winelands and safari for a totally rich and different trip. So there's too much good things to do. And then some people want to go to Namibia for the lightened landscapes. That's where you get your. Your dunes on steroids.
- [20:28]
A
So there's just too many things to do in too little time. So we went to South Africa. It was my husband's 35th birthday and I've contaminated him. He was much, much more athletic and fit before, you know, when in our earlier years of our marriage. But he ran this 35 mile marathon like around the Cape of Good Hope, around the bot, you know, the bottom of Africa and Cape Town. So we started there, we went to the wine country and then we went to that Sangita. But I wanted to do the great white shark experience.
- [21:01]
B
You did.
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A
I did. Not in the water, but from the boat. And we had the whole thing planned. We were getting up at five to meet the outfit in Cape Town and the guy called and you can hear it's like, you know, perfect storm. He's, there's wind blowing. He's like, I can't do it, it's too choppy. And my husband's like, you know what? We're not going out in a, you know, great white shark infested waters to, you know, live your dream, your bug. But anyway, I still have the certificate, the gift certificate to go, my credit or whatever for that excursion to go back. But that's, but there are so many things, things like that. And you mentioned, you know, you know, we think of safari in Africa as, as being the, you know, just, it is sort of the pinnacle of, of the experience there. But there's, you know, you talked about historical sites, there's this, there's cave drawings, there's, you know, the islands off of Africa. Tell us. There's also guerrilla trekking. You just did an incredible trip. I was, you know, living vicariously through friends. Instagram. So tell us about some, or spending time with the Masai. There's so many unique experiences that people can, can, can do when they, when they go on a safari with, with you all.
- [22:06]
B
Yeah, there's so many different things to do. So gorillas and chimps, you have to travel to Rwanda or Uganda, which is so easily tacked onto an East Africa trip to Kenzia, Kenya or Tanzania. I'm an ape freak. So I, we send a lot of people to gorillas and chimps and it's. Being with the gorillas up in those mountains is the most humbling experience you can have. We did a great trip actually with our mutual friend Elizabeth who connected us where we did gorillas, chimps and safari. And the cool thing was that you have these really docile gorillas. They're just happy and sitting around, lazing around, eating, curious, just, just a happy group. And then you get to, you get to the chimps and they are nuts. I mean, they are loud. They're screaming all over the place. And it's, it's just so cool to see them as they should be, where they, you know, in their natural habitat, just doing their thing. I'm also obsessed with.
- [23:10]
A
That's awesome.
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B
Off of Africa, another women's trip that I took. We, I, I loved this trip because it was so varied, which was we did gorillas into safari in Kenya to the coast to Lamu. And we combined staying in Lamu with a big, beautiful dhow, which is an old, you know, African sailing boat that was used for trading spices and elephant tusks a while ago. It's been refurbished. And being out in the Lamu archipelago and jumping off the boat and snorkeling and fishing and visiting beaches and villages around. You could sail up north up to Kyu. You could spend five days on that boat. I mean, it's heaven. Absolute heaven.
- [24:00]
A
We were supposed to go with a friend to, to Lamu, Christmas of last year, and things were so uncertain. It was after October 7th. I don't know. We were just worried about traveling that far.
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B
The people that pulled out of that trip, I had since who were traveling. And we're going to veer over for that party.
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A
Yes, yes.
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B
And they backed out.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean, I, I, I was ready to go in a heartbeat. I have a, I'm married to a bit of a. More of a nervous traveler, but, but what an incredible experience. What an incredible place. Oh, my friend who organized the trip, you know, who was, who was bringing everyone there had been before and just said, it's one of the most magical places on Earth.
- [24:45]
B
It's a hedonist paradise. It's just, you feel like you're really on the edge of the world. And just a great mix of Swahili culture, untouched, some chic Europeans, some salty old Kenyan dogs that have been there.
- [25:00]
A
For generations, Both human and canine, I'm sure.
- [25:03]
B
Yeah, exactly. And it's just safe and nice people and beautiful.
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A
Mean human. When you said salty old dogs.
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B
I did.
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A
Oh, my gosh. It's too funny.
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B
They haven't left the bar stool in decades.
- [25:16]
A
I love it. Oh, my God. That could be a. By the way, that would be. I should bring a microphone with me when I go and see if I can get some, some guests on site there, because I bet you they have real stories to tell.
- [25:28]
B
Real stories to tell.
- [25:29]
A
And then the cave drawings, we saw some of those, which were incredible. When we went to Zimbabwe and you had to hike, you know, get out of the vehicle, the truck, and hike to go see them. And just they're so incredibly preserved. And I don't know if they're just in Zimbabwe or where else cave drawings are.
- [25:47]
B
Zimbabwe. I feel like the best ones are in Zimbabwe, but my partner was just in South Africa and saw some pretty nice ones, too. But I think of Zimbabwe for that.
- [25:56]
A
You mentioned a little bit that East Africa, you know, is sort of known for its tented safaris. For people that are listening and kind of are on the fence or have thought about both or heard about both, would you kind of do a quick sort of explanation of the difference between the two?
- [26:12]
B
Sure. There are. There's a few different. A few differences in tented safari. Mobile tented camps, which are our collective favorite, are it's under canvas, but they still. The way we do it, they've got hot showers, they've got flushing toilets, they've got comfy beds, but they get rolled up. The whole thing gets packed up at the end of the season, and it's as though it was nothing. And we set them up in the most beautiful location. So one of my favorites is right on this beautiful riverbed, which sometimes has a little trickle, sometimes can have water, sometimes it's a dry riverbed. And you're looking on the other side is Tanzania. You're in Kenya. You're looking Tanzania. And you know, elephants will cross. And you can set up dinner in the bed. And the things that you hear at night, anywhere you are. But under. Under canvas is the most authentic way you can do safari. It's how it was always done. Mobile camps, where you would traditionally go to one location, stay there for as long as you're staying, pack it up, move to the next location, stay someplace, you know, in between while they set that up. We have a lot of people. A double mobile is wonderful for a big group. It's yours alone. Kids can come to dinner in bathing suits. It doesn't matter. My kids brought a speaker, which sounds all wrong, but it was so fun at dinner. But you can also have stationary tented camps, which are. Might be on wood decks, so they're there permanently, but you're still under canvas. And I love those, too. So you're safe when you're under canvas, even though you are out in nature.
- [27:49]
A
Would you explain that? Because I. I have sort of visuals of my, you know, lion coming in, grabbing me by the ankle and dragging me out in the middle of the night. But I. When we were. When we were on safari, they explained that when you're seated in the truck that the lion sees you. Anything bigger than them, they're not. They're not going to pursue you or. Or go to. But so is that the same sort of thing with the tent? That you're just. You're enclosed in this structure, and as far as the animals can tell, it's. It's bigger than they are. It's not something that they're interested in.
- [28:21]
B
Is that they are so not interested. But it's so cool to be right there because. Right. You'll have buffalo munching grass or hippos come up out of the water to eat grass at night. They'll be right there. My client, just a couple weeks ago was. Was actually texting me from her tent because there was a hyena on her deck, which doesn't usually happen. But she's like, it's on the deck. What do I do? And I'm like, oh, my God, I'm in New York. But I kind of love it because it's thrilling and I know she's safe. But there are guards all night long that do come around. And sure enough, he. He kind of, you know, whooshed it away. But you are 100% safe. They'll brief you when you get there that once you're in your tent for the night, you are in like, you. You're not. You don't run to the next tent in the middle of the night when you hear that noise, because once it's dark and you're on foot, then you're.
- [29:20]
A
You know, you're on your own. You're on your own.
- [29:22]
B
Yeah, you're bait. But no. Is it. It's so safe once you're in. And I remember the first time I took my kids, I was so terrified. Cause I knew they were. All three of them were in one one tent. And I knew when that lion roars in the middle of the night, that is when my daughter is going to unzip that thing and come running over to me, hands down. And sure enough, the lion starts roaring. And it sounds like it's in your tent, even though it's a mile or two away again. And I heard them, and they were all laughing and giggling. And it wound up the. The nighttime noises were their favorite thing in the whole world. It's just so cool. It's such a part of it.
- [29:59]
A
Well, you. You mentioned just your daughter unzipping the tent and running over. And that's another in my. See, here I'm accusing my husband of being a nervous traveler. And you can see I'm going through my, my checklist of my anxieties. But what is the youngest age? I mean when is the appropriate or the, the sort of the, the, the floor for you or the youngest age that you would ever recommend someone bringing kids on safari? I guess it depends. If you're going to a lodge, maybe it's not that, that that age depends where you go.
- [30:27]
B
Some will have an age requirement, Southern Africa, depending on the camper lodge it might have an, know an 8 years old minimum. Some will have 10 because it's quite, for in Botswana you're so out there it can be quite dangerous. That's what that's about. For example, in Kenya we've had kids as young as I think three was our youngest. You know a big multigenerational family. I think ideally we 7 year olds are amazing because they're so into everything and the soak it up and they have a million questions and they're just, they're just the best. And you worry will they, will they remember? And I, I remember a friend having her daughter's 7 7th birthday over there and I saw her about six months later and she just about every. So many memories and experiences. Her favorite thing in the whole world. So I think seven is a magic number. But we've done much younger and they have a blast. And we have, we put guides on trips, not every trip, but most trips we have an army of private guides that are, I mean they're phenomenal, they're so fun, they're so knowledgeable and great with kids, are great with parents.
- [31:39]
A
It's not just the animals, right? It's the vegetation and the trees and the flowers and the birds. The birds. I mean who. I never understood the whole bird watching gig and now I was like I could do the birds, you know, all day long, spiders and I can see. And the guides will explain to you all about you know, the, the different backgrounds of each of these animals and what's happening in their habitat and they know the depth of their knowledge is so vast and that you just really leave with such an incredible appreciation of you know, creatures big and small. I mean it's a, it's a real experience. So I could see kids really leaning into that because the people that are there. And what's interesting is that we asked our tracker like you're so excited and passionate about this and you do this every day. He said no day is ever the same. And we were, this was when we were in Zimbabwe. We went through, there was a big sort of bush there and the bush kind of was, you know, something was walking through it. And in front of us appeared this rhino. And our guide remarked, he said, I've never seen a rhino look at me like that. So he was so sort of move by that experience. And I, anyway, it just, every day is a new day. There's just an infinite number of possibilities and experiences. When you go, I love that that.
- [33:00]
B
Was so impactful for you because the guide really adds so much value, like you said. And I'm glad you kept that with you because you do every little thing, every single thing out there has its role and it is fascinating. It blows your mind. And like you said, the kids pick up on that. It's just, it's. They're, they're. You learn so much about the natural world and then in turn, the human world and how far we've come, it is.
- [33:29]
A
And how small we are in the, in the scheme of things. Right. And that this is happening every day. We're, we're here, you know, you're in New York, I'm here in Nashville. You know, we're doing our thing and they're, you know, things are alive and happening on the Serengeti and just as they have been for centuries. It's really, it's an incredible experience. Okay, so this is a, this might be a tougher question, but if you had to do a highlights trip or like a one week, a one weeker, and I guess again, depends on maybe ages and size of group and everything, but what would be your ultimate or what would you advise for someone who said, you know what, I'd love to go on safari. I have one week.
- [34:07]
B
Oh, God. I push them to do 10 days, which is like the best I've done. Eight. Seven feels short.
- [34:13]
A
Okay, let's do 10 days of 10 days.
- [34:15]
B
10?
- [34:16]
A
Yes, let's do 10.
- [34:17]
B
I would do gorillas, a mobile tented safari camp, and I would get to the coast because that's three completely different trips, experiences.
- [34:27]
A
Yeah.
- [34:28]
B
As different as could possibly be. Or if it's straight safari, I would do a mobile tented camp, A beautiful private house and a camp. I have a favorite camp, which is, I mean, I have so many favorites, but I would head north in Kenya, where it's just arid and dry, but the Samburu culture is alive and thriving and just vibrant. And they haven't changed the way they live. And it is authentic and real. And I think it's so cool to see get that experience of the people that live there and how they live unchanged, happy people. Yeah, as simple as could be. It's pretty incredible.
- [35:13]
A
That is incredible. That is. I mean, of course, again, this is my, my interview for me. I'm like, so tell me, tell me, Claudia.
- [35:21]
B
But I can't. I mean, it's all so good. And I. Straight safari. It's all so good. There's too many good things to do.
- [35:27]
A
So logistics for a second. So if someone's thinking about doing this trip, how. How far out should someone plan and how far out should they contact you? And then there are obviously some things like shots, pass, obviously passports. But explain a couple of those. Those things people should be thinking about.
- [35:45]
B
I'm glad you asked that because lead time is everything because the camps that we love to use are so small. We don't do any large, big hotels or anything like that. Lead time is so important. So a year to two out is really perfect. I just tried to get one of my favorite private houses for the summer of 2026, and it is fully booked, which is bananas, because. Yeah, who can plan that far in advance? So I would say most people plan a year somewhere between a year and two out. And that said, we've had people go in three weeks. And I went with two days notice last summer, the summer before, something like that. So the stars can align. But if you want, if we can just like hand pick beautifully exactly what we want, at least a year.
- [36:36]
A
So when you have those cancellations and you need like an intern or someone to take notes, just know I'm, I'm there. I'm really serious. I'm, I am. I would. Yeah, just give me, give me a holler. I've got.
- [36:47]
B
Yeah, I see a collab coming. Okay.
- [36:51]
A
Actually, so. But you know what? That would be cool. I'd love to do sort of an, you know, a on site maybe with some tracker. I mean, it'd be. They're so fascinating. That would be.
- [37:00]
B
Oh, my God. You know who's fascinating is the people who have been there for generations who own these ranches or whatever.
- [37:08]
A
Yes.
- [37:08]
B
Lives are so. They are a different species from us. I mean, the things they contend with, with conservation, you know, whether it's. It's taking off rhino horns and our, you know, there's a hyena in the kitchen. Or just the stories that get handed down that aren't written down. And there's just so many unsung heroes over there that rescuing elephants and collaring lions and they do so much. I mean, there's so much, you know, human wildlife conflict. And in order to keep everybody happy, what are systems that you put in place? You know, you've got to worry about, you know, locals have to feed their families.
- [37:47]
A
Right. So that, that, right, that. Well, there was a big initiative in South Africa of taking people who used to be poachers and making them into guides. Right. Because they're poaching, because they're, they're trying to feed their families. They're not, you know, this is, it's an economic decision that they're making. And so when you present them with an alternative. And that's been a very successful program in Kruger.
- [38:09]
B
Yep. Throughout. Throughout.
- [38:11]
A
Oh, is that, that's that. Okay. So you've got obviously have your, your ears to the ground. You know what's happening, what's hot, what's not in Africa, what's. Is there any lodge that's coming up new country that's opening up, something that's exciting that you can't wait to try, that you haven't seen yet, that you might make it part of the three collective itinerary in the future?
- [38:34]
B
Yes, I would say I have my eye on Congo. I like to go deeper and deeper and deeper. So like real Tarzan territory, as you.
- [38:45]
A
Said, you're ape crazy or you're crazy? Yes, the apes, yes.
- [38:49]
B
So in the Congo you've got. It's the one place where you can have. As far as I know that you can have gorillas and elephants on the same by. It's an open opening of the forest. The rainforest opens into this big kind of rivers running through water, running through grassy land. And now you've got lowland gorillas with forest elephants and other weeds, weird antelope species. And I would love to see that and do that. There's. There's some camps you can go in between, one of which you have to go by kayak. I mean it's deep in there and it just looks so.
- [39:30]
A
That sounds like on the pack list is like you know, deet. DEET would be on the pack list.
- [39:34]
B
Maybe some sort of totally nothing that leave the strapless evening gown at.
- [39:40]
A
Yeah, yeah. That is so exciting. So are so more places are opening up there then? That's a place that's kind of people are starting to. To explore a little more.
- [39:48]
B
It's just the less obvious. I wouldn't go there for a first time safari because you are wanting to see the big five, which it wouldn't have. But on my personal list I would like to go there. Well, is opening back up which is exciting.
- [40:01]
A
Oh, is that right? Ethiopia is opening back up and would that Would they have safari there as well, or. No, no. Right. No more just sort of for a cultural experience and.
- [40:10]
B
Exactly. The beautiful churches, cliffside churches, culture. And they do have those, those simian monkeys, which I think would be really cool.
- [40:19]
A
I mean, you and the. You and the.
- [40:20]
B
I know.
- [40:21]
A
You know this.
- [40:23]
B
I know, but there's too much. Again, it just goes to what somebody's after. And also, are you traveling with your family or a group of friends or, you know, who, who is in the group? What are they looking for? Landscapes, light water, fishing, you name it.
- [40:42]
A
Well, I. Now that I know what my lead time is, Claudia, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I might call you.
- [40:46]
B
Do we talk in 20, 30?
- [40:47]
A
Yeah, exactly. No, I, you know, it's on my bucket list. But it's so good to, to know, you know, to get this incredible overview from you and to speak with someone who's such knowledge and passion about the continent. So, yes, for everyone listening, I hope that you learned a ton and you obviously know who to go to when it's. When it's your time. But thank you so much for talking with me this morning. I'm so happy to see you. And I, I've got, I took all my notes, so I'm, I'm gonna be, you know, ready to get. Get you on speed dial in the next 10 days, since I know I need to live at least two years out or, or 18 months out or maybe even a year. But if I want to get the. That special house that's. That was fully booked, I need to get, get on, get on things organized.
- [41:30]
B
Yeah, we'll make it happen and everything for a reason. But it was so nice to talk to you, my favorite subject, and great to see you and thank you for having me.
- [41:40]
A
Thank you. Thank you so much, Claudia. That brings us to the end of this episode of the interview. A huge thank you to Claudia Church for joining, and as always, thank you all for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We release a new episode every week, Wednesday, and This year of2025, we have many exciting new episodes ahead. So until next Wednesday, this is Leslie. And thank you for joining the interview.