← Duologue with Leslie Heaney
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- [00:05]
Leslie Heaney
Hey, everybody, this is Leslie, and you're listening to the interview with Leslie Heaney. My next guests are the most spectacular couple. Caroline Jones, singer, songwriter, female singer of the Zac Brown band and extremely successful solo artist with four albums. Her most recent single just dropped last week. It's called no Tellin' And Nick, a world class successful professional sailor. These two fall in love and we talk a lot about their incredible love story and we talk about their amazing careers and we talk about how they're balancing their family life and their priorities and what inspires them. I enjoyed every minute of my conversation with both of them. They're both physically gorgeous people, and they're also gorgeous on the inside, too. So in all of my episodes, I think this is my 60th or so episode that I've released. This is one of my favorites, and I'm. I'm sure it'll be one of yours too. So here's Caroline Jones and Nick Dana.
- [01:14]
Nick Dana
Caroline and Nick. For those that are watching and they're not just listening, I'm in front of two, I'd say one of the most attractive couples that are that are walking planet Earth now. It's true, it's true, you two, but I'm so happy to see you and I'm so grateful to you both for coming in to chat with me today. Caroline was just coming from a write up, which I was asking her what that is because I didn't know. And I think it's so interesting to kind of get the behind the music, literally and figuratively of how you go about songwriting.
- [01:48]
Caroline Jones
Yeah. So when I'm not touring or recording, a typical week for me would consist of co writing in Nashville. So I'm an artist and I'll write with all different. There are thousands of songwriters in Nashville, hundreds who have publishing deals and they're all vying for these single spots on country radio. So they're writing a few hundred songs a year, which means they're writing four or five days a week. And all the songwriters are writing with all the artists trying to get cuts on their records. And so I'm in the process right now of writing a new album. And so I'm writing by myself, but I'm also writing with a lot of different new writers. Some who I've written with before, who I love working with, and then some new ones. Like I said, I love to experiment and meet new people and find who I creatively jive with. But that is very normal in Nashville if you're an artist or a songwriter or a Producer to be constantly collaborating. I mean, that is our day job. You know, that's what we do all day.
- [02:47]
Nick Dana
So we probably go both ways, right? You'll hear a song and you'll think like, gosh, I really. That's a beautiful lyric. I want to find out who helped that artist write that song, if that artist did get help writing or. Or collaborate with someone in writing that song. And then you probably get. Are people sending you their work? Is it? Almost like sometimes, but mostly.
- [03:07]
Caroline Jones
Actually, this is where the industry of Nashville, this is why Nashville has so many musician jobs, because there's publishers, there's song pluggers, there's managers, there's A and R people. So all of those people are saying, hey, you should write with X and X, you should write with Y. You know, you might really jive with this person lyrically or this person production wise. Or there's this new young guy who, you know, has these amazing tracks that he builds. And. And so you get set up a lot by word of mouth and through the industry as well as through social media, as you just kind of alluded to.
- [03:38]
Nick Dana
That's really interesting.
- [03:39]
Caroline Jones
Yeah.
- [03:39]
Nick Dana
I had a. I have a friend who's in music publishing who I was mentioning to you a little bit earlier and he was explaining, you know, you sort of always think, or at least I did prior to moving here, that Nashville, sort of primarily country music, but apparently kind of everybody's coming here to record, whether it's pop or R and B. And maybe it's because of what you're talking about, like the collaborative nature of what's happening Nashville.
- [04:02]
Caroline Jones
And also just because in general, our world is so much more global now and music is so much more global. And unfortunately there's not a lot of groups, great studios left because music has gone so digital. So I think it's both. I think a lot of people are moving to Nashville and so the genre spectrum is widening. And then I also think that Nashville is one of the last places where you can really make a record with live musicians and where there's a live music scene. You know, there used to be great live music scene and there used to be great recording studios where you could cut a live record in LA and New York, and those things are dwindling a little bit. So Nashville is really the music city or the network.
- [04:41]
Nick Dana
I never thought about that because when we first came, I remember coming walking through the airport and there was just someone playing, like at the coffee shop at the airport, and they sounded like Adele. I'm like, this is just like, there's so much talent here and so many people performing live like, all over the place in places that you wouldn't expect. All right, so, Nick, when Caroline is writing, do you ever, like, run things by him? I'm sure you probably do, actually. Yeah.
- [05:06]
Caroline Jones
Nick is super. He's. I really. No, no, I do. I really trust Nick's taste almost more than anyone's, with the exception of. There's a few caveats of. He's not a big pop music fan. So if one of my songs leans more pop and he doesn't like it, then I don't always trust that. But when it comes to lyrics, by.
- [05:23]
Nick Dana
The way, I. I can be your person for that. Yeah, I know.
- [05:25]
Caroline Jones
Because I love pop melodies.
- [05:27]
Nick Dana
I. I sort of land in that space.
- [05:29]
Caroline Jones
I really value Nick's opinion musically, in. On everything in life, but especially musically. And it really both. Nick doesn't like something that I've done. Like, I'll go off and first of all I'll get mad, but then I'll go off and change it a lot. But he has good ideas and he's very creative. He'll. He'll be humble and kind of undermine himself because he thinks of himself more as a shadow. How he's actually. He has really good ideas, and I've written songs with him before, so.
- [05:58]
Nick Dana
Pop is not your thing. Is country your thing?
- [06:01]
Yeah, I'm. I. As I always say, I'm the. I am the layman, you know, listener that she has to aim things towards because, you know, when it's your business, they're so narrowly focused on every detail of a song, whereas a person is driving or working or, you know, in a gym or something like that. I'd say maybe 60% of the time, I'm not listening to the lyrics. You like a melody. You pick up on a couple lyrics in the chorus or something and you're like, you know, that song jives with me. So it's really hard when she'll put a huge amount of effort into a turning point in the song and how one thing balances off another and all that, and I just don't hear it. So it's in some ways, I think, being totally clueless in it.
- [06:56]
Yeah, yeah.
- [06:57]
Caroline Jones
He comes up with things I would never come up with.
- [06:59]
Nick Dana
Yeah. And. And I give her a perspective that.
- [07:02]
Caroline Jones
Right.
- [07:02]
Nick Dana
You know, she's surrounded by talented artists and musicians. They're all hyper focused in one side, but who's at all eventually catering to is the knuckleheads like me is the audience. And so it's like, maybe I can give a little bit of that.
- [07:18]
Caroline Jones
Yeah. But Nick is also not giving himself credit for the breadth and depth of music knowledge that he has in country, in rock, in classic rock, in grunge, and all these. So he has all of these influences that I have to a certain degree, but there are genres of music and. And instrumentation that he can pick up on that, like he said, he puts in a. He frames in a way that I would never think of, and that's really helpful.
- [07:43]
Nick Dana
Well, it's so great to have him as your testing ground again. I'm available for pop. Pop consults, because you need to have. That's where it's ending up. Right. It's almost like if you're in a. Like a professional kitchen or something, and everyone's very tuned into what the ingredients are, you have all these different people who are offering sound or offering lyrics or offering all of the kind of real professional input. And then you get.
- [08:04]
Caroline Jones
But then on a personal level, too, he knows the bar of excellence that I want to set for myself, so that helps, too, because he wants that to come across in the world, too.
- [08:14]
Nick Dana
So you were mentioning that some of your songs are leaning a little bit pop. Are you. Country is sort of your main focus. Right. And what were your kind of earlier influences?
- [08:25]
Caroline Jones
I grew up not listening to country music at all. I grew up listening to classic rock, R and B. The divas of the 90s like Mariah Whitney, Celine, Barbra Streisand, ABBA. Like, that's what my mom loved. And then I was trained classically in opera and jazz. So I grew up listening to almost everything but country. And I fell in love with country when I came to Nashville at age 17 and I went to a show at a legendary singer songwriter venue here called the Bluebird Cafe. Yeah, of course. And I was completely transfixed by these songwriters sitting in a room, capturing the room with just a guitar and their voice and their story. And I just hadn't. I've been into Joni Mitchell and Bob Dylan and Jewel and some singer songwriters, but I hadn't realized there was a whole genre of music and a whole town that's built around that experience of sitting in a room and listening to someone just sharing their story on guitar. That's what the Nashville songwriting community, and by extension the whole Nashville music industry is built on, is songwriters and musicians. And so once I realized that, I just fell in love with country music. And I went all the way back to the beginning, the Carter Family, in the late 30s, and early 40s. And I went forward and just listened to the whole line of country artists and the whole tradition, and I felt like it was the missing piece of my artistry. And I just have wanted to be in Nashville ever since. And like everyone of my generation, you know, we're all influenced by all kinds of genres, and the genre lines have been blurring for the past few decades since, you know, the advent of music digitization. So I have lots of different influences. I love pop music. I love rock music. You know, now I'm in the Zach Brown Band. So that's given me many more influences and textures and flavors to my music. But I do consider myself country because country is still the genre where songwriting and musicianship is at the forefront. And that's really important to me.
- [10:20]
Nick Dana
So when you said you're. So you're coming from Connecticut to Nashville, was that. Did you come to Nashville? You weren't here just sort of with your parents as a tourist, you were coming here as a musician?
- [10:30]
Caroline Jones
Yeah, because at the time, my manager at the time was listening to the songs I was writing, and he said, you know, your songs have a country style flair to them. And I said, really? I did country that. I was so surprised. But then when I came down here, I kind of found out what he was talking about. But he's the one who sent me down here originally.
- [10:48]
Nick Dana
So you're like a young girl in Connecticut. You are. Did you start off singing or playing the guitar? How did you go from listening to Mariah Carey. Right. And Whitney Houston to having a manager and ending up in the Bluebird Cafe? What was that path?
- [11:08]
Caroline Jones
I started writing songs. I started singing when I was nine, singing lessons. And I'd been writing poems and stories since I was. Since I could write and read. I mean, I always loved writing. That was my first love. And then when I was 10 or 11, and I've been singing lessons and piano lessons, I realized I could put all those poems and stories to music. And once I realized that, I just never wanted to do anything else. I knew that was what I wanted to be and do, be a singer songwriter. And so I think when I was around 16 or 17, I started going to this performing arts school in New York City called the Professional Children's School. And that's when I first got a manager and started recording my demos around New York City.
- [11:49]
Nick Dana
And he's like, it's time. It's like, Taylor, he's like, it's time for you to go to Next isn't sort of like the next step Yeah, I got it.
- [11:56]
Caroline Jones
Kidding.
- [11:56]
Nick Dana
So then that. Yeah, I mean, you did. And.
- [12:00]
Caroline Jones
And I don't know about that.
- [12:01]
Nick Dana
So you walked into that. And then at that point, were you just thinking, like, this is where I want to stay because I really want to immerse myself in this creative community.
- [12:09]
Caroline Jones
There was a part of me that wanted to do that, but there was also a part of me that recognized when I was 17, 18, and I started being put by my A and R with producers and writers, and I realized that I was. I really didn't know who I was as an artist. I didn't have a strong artistic, like, musical identity at that age, because I was just figuring it out. And what can sometimes happen is that you kind of get put on this factory line of songwriters and producers who kind of write and mold your sound for you. And I just really wanted to learn how to produce. I really wanted to learn how to play my own instruments. I really wanted to book my own shows. I really wanted to write my own songs. And I think I just recognized that I had a long way to go. And so I actually went back to New York City and went to high school and college at nyu and I started just my independent artist career, and I started booking myself around high schools and colleges in the Northeast, like, literally just cold calling schools for hours a day. And then for the rest of the day, I would go to college, and then for the rest of the day, I would write songs. So I was really ambitious at that age. And really, I mean, I still am, but I was very headstrong about doing it myself.
- [13:26]
Nick Dana
And so what happened to the manager? Was he, like, I ended up.
- [13:30]
Caroline Jones
Yeah, I ended up breaking ties with him. And like I said, I cannot overstate at 19, 20, 21, 22 years old, like, how headstrong I was and how determined I was to build my career my way and learn how to truly immerse myself in the crafts. Not only in the crafts of songwriting and producing and singing, but also in the business side. Like, I didn't have a manager, an agent till I was like, 25, because I was just so determined to book my own show. I mean, it was very inefficient, but I learned a lot. I learned a lot about who I wanted to be as an artist. I learned about. I mean, I got rejected a lot. I got told no a lot. I. I played gigs for, like, one or two people. Like I said, it was very inefficient, but it built a lot of character in me. I think it's also Like a blind.
- [14:21]
Nick Dana
Confidence, I think, for you to look at every aspect of the business. Because while you're an artist and that's. That's where your artistic drive and your creativity is coming from. At the end of the day, it's sort of like with Nick, you know, being your audience, you have. You're going to be out in the world as a musician. And the business side of that, you hear these terrible stories, right, of people's. Their writing or the publishing rights being sold to someone, or so understanding how it really works and having. Driving that bus yourself is really smart.
- [14:53]
Caroline Jones
Thank you. Well, I was also very stubborn.
- [14:57]
Nick Dana
So at some point you start meeting mentors, right? And you had some huge mentors that are obviously so prominent in the music business. Jimmy Buffett being one and Kenny Chesney was one and Trisha Yearwood. How did that. Was that also kind of organic or did you reach out? Did you do one of your cold calls where you're like, I need to meet you, Jimmy Buffett.
- [15:19]
Caroline Jones
I don't think you could cold call Jimmy Buffett. No, I actually first was connected to Zach, Zach Brown.
- [15:26]
Nick Dana
Okay.
- [15:27]
Caroline Jones
So Zach heard my first single on the highway, and we were connected through mutual friends. And Zach is super. If you know him, you know, he's super supportive of new artists. He's a super generous, genuine soul. And he goes out of his way, he sticks his neck out all the time for new artists that he believes in. And so he said, why don't you come open two shows for me this summer?
- [15:52]
Nick Dana
What year is this, Caroline?
- [15:54]
Caroline Jones
This was 2017. Okay. So I had spent just fast forward from my days in New York City. I had gotten connected with my now longtime manager and co producer, Rick Wake. And he'd been managing me since 2014, 2015. And we made a record, my first record, Bare Feet. And the lead single off that was called Tough Guys. And that's the song that Zach heard and invited me to come and open two shows on his tour that summer. And I had never played a show that big, and I'd never been in opening act on a tour that significant. And I was.
- [16:34]
Nick Dana
What was that like? What was the first concert that you.
- [16:37]
Caroline Jones
The first concert that I. Well, I played a bunch of shows, but they were all small shows that I had booked and some very wild, sketchy festivals and things like that. But the first show I opened for Zach was in upstate New York. And I don't know, it was for. Because the venue holds like 25,000 people, but they're not there for the opener. You know, so probably, I don't know, five or eight, eight, nine thousand people, something.
- [16:59]
Nick Dana
The stadium size is sort of the, you know, it still fiddles. Right.
- [17:02]
Caroline Jones
Well, also just for me, having been such a massive fan of the Zach Brown Band, like, just those nerves alone, you know, standing on a stage like that and having never really played with a band because I primarily played acoustic. And so after I played those first two shows opening for him, I remember going home and thinking, I can't just go back to my normal life. Like, I belong out here. Like, what do I have to do.
- [17:28]
Nick Dana
To get on the tour stage with a, with a band?
- [17:31]
Caroline Jones
No, just that I belong on tour. Like, this is what I've been wanting to do for the past, whatever, seven, eight years of my life and I finally did it and I can't just not do it now. Like I. And so I remember calling my manager, being like, what do I have to do to get on the rest of the Zach Brown tour? Like, and I ended up opening that whole tour for them and opened for them on and off the next few years before joining the band. But that opened the door for me. Like, that's how I got connected to Jimmy Buffett. And that opened the door for me to then be taken on tour by these other mentors and heroes of mine. And the career I have so far, I really owe to touring. I owe to the people who have taken me on tour because that's how I've gotten the whatever success and fan base that I have now is because of them.
- [18:18]
Leslie Heaney
This episode is brought to you by the Scout Guide. If you're a woman who's looking to get back to work, but you want your own schedule or you're ready for a career shift, maybe you have some marketing or sales experience or you're just someone who really wants to help support the local businesses in your community, the Scout Guide franchise may be just the opportunity you're looking for. The scout guide is 100% women founded. It was co founded by my good friend Susie Matheson back in 2014 along with her partner Christy Ford. And the Scout Guide is a publishing franchise that supports, as I mentioned, small businesses through a network of city guides. They have over 90 locations right now with 90 women owned franchises. These are women who have a particular location that they scout and they feature in their own guide the local businesses in that particular area. And while they have great coverage all across the US they're always looking to expand our franchise family to find other women, maybe women like you, who are interested in building their own business while also supporting businesses in their communities. So if you're interested in learning more, I really encourage you. If you're thinking about going back to work or you want to have your own business, you want to support your community, go to their website. To learn more about becoming a franchisee of the Scout Guide, you can visit franchise.thescoutguide.com or you can email them with questions@franchisethescoutguide.com and when you do, don't forget to mention Leslie and the interview with Leslie Heaney. Now back to our episode.
- [20:02]
Nick Dana
What is it about touring that's so is it just the energy of being and playing live in front of a an audience? What did you find so compelling about it that you were like, I have to be doing this versus well, it's the dream.
- [20:14]
Caroline Jones
I mean, the most fulfilling parts of my job for me are the very beginning and the very end. So the very beginning is like the spark of creativity that you get when you write a song. Like that is a high that can only be touched by a few other things in life, like that creative high. And then the very end of the process is sharing that with people and seeing how it moves them and inspires them and brings them together. And like, now neuroscientists are learning, like, what actually goes on in people's brains when they go to a concert and listen to music. Like, it's very real. It's a spiritual experience.
- [20:51]
Nick Dana
Well, it's also the shared experience, right?
- [20:52]
Caroline Jones
Exactly.
- [20:52]
Nick Dana
I think that's part of the.
- [20:54]
Caroline Jones
But even the chemicals that go off in our brains when we listen to music that we love. So it's the beginning of the process and the end of the process. But for me, touring, touring means that you have a job in music. Like, it's wonderful to make music and it's wonderful to put it on the radio. But like, touring, playing a show is when it's real because people have paid to come see you play music. And like, for me, that's all I want long term. Like, if you can build a sustainable career in music where you can tour for and make records for the rest of your life, like all the awards and radio and magazines and like, that's all wonderful, but that's very fleeting in this industry. Whereas if you can play like, Zach Brown band will be able to play shows till he can't play them anymore.
- [21:37]
Nick Dana
Right.
- [21:38]
Caroline Jones
Because he's built a touring fan base. And so that's what I've always wanted to build. That's what the heroes that I look up to have built. And that's what, like, touring and playing shows means to me.
- [21:49]
Nick Dana
And so now you're.
- [21:51]
Caroline Jones
You're.
- [21:51]
Nick Dana
You just mentioning that you're writing, working on your. Your second. Second or third album.
- [21:56]
Caroline Jones
This will actually be my fourth album. This will be my fourth. I look at you like, you'll know.
- [22:01]
Nick Dana
I mean, Vic knows. Okay, so you're. It's like 2017. You're singing with the Zach Brown band. Where are you in 2017?
- [22:08]
Caroline Jones
Yeah.
- [22:09]
Nick Dana
Where did you two. I mean, I feel like I've, you know, I know where you were in 2017, too, so I feel like I, I. But I don't really remember. I don't know where you were in 2017. I actually don't know where it was.
- [22:22]
Caroline Jones
Right before you did your last Volvo.
- [22:25]
Nick Dana
But. But did you two. How did you two meet? I guess is what I'm. I'm really getting at. Like, when. When did the person that's like the. The professional, incredible sailor meet the incredible, talented.
- [22:40]
Right at the start of COVID I was living in.
- [22:43]
That's a tough dating start, by the way. I never. I mean, it was a long time.
- [22:48]
Caroline Jones
Yeah.
- [22:48]
Nick Dana
Yeah.
- [22:49]
It was a real long shot. And there was that. The odds were definitely stacked against us because I was supposed to be moving to New Zealand. I mean, I was supposed to be in New Zealand by the time we met, but Covid delayed.
- [23:02]
Were you in the audience? Were you at some audience?
- [23:04]
No.
- [23:04]
Okay.
- [23:05]
But funny enough, actually. Well, funny enough, I actually. So I was living in Pensacola at.
- [23:09]
Caroline Jones
The time when I opened for Kenny.
- [23:12]
Nick Dana
Yeah. So we went to a show in Orange Beach. I know I had no idea of Caroline, or maybe I did at this point. It's a. It's a long story, but I'm going to give you maybe the highlight.
- [23:22]
I mean, that's. That's what I'm here for, though.
- [23:23]
Yeah.
- [23:23]
I'm here for the long story I've got.
- [23:25]
There was a show that Kenny Chesney played that Caroline was opening for in Orange beach, and we went. We got out of work one night, and we all went to that show, and Caroline was sick that night and never played. When we did finally end up meeting, which we were connected by a mutual friend of ours, I told her I went to that show, and she was, you know, like, I couldn't play that night because my voice was gone. And so it's kind of funny that it all ended up the way it did, but.
- [23:56]
But maybe had you met that night, it might not.
- [23:59]
We wouldn't have. I was just sliding doors No, I was number 9,000 in the audience.
- [24:03]
So your friend gives you Caroline's number, or she. He or she connects on text, or they're like, she's on tour. She's going to be where you are. What. How does this. And it's May. So we're all supposed to be this.
- [24:14]
You can back up maybe six months from. From this. And a friend of ours, we ran a shipyard in Rhode island, and my mom would do a lot of the event stuff for it. She would organize these things, and they'd usually have one big party in the summer towards the end, and they were booking a band, and they were trying to figure out a band to do this. And our friend was a big Zach Brown fan and said, you know, here's somebody that might kind of be in your range. You know, she's been opening for. For Zach Brown for a while, and she'd be a great fit for this. And so my mom looked through a few videos and. And listened to it and really liked it and sent me a video and said, this is the kind of girl I see you marrying.
- [24:56]
Stop it.
- [24:57]
Caroline Jones
Isn't that crazy?
- [24:59]
Nick Dana
And my mom. I mean, you know, my mom, she's not. She's a.
- [25:04]
Caroline Jones
She's not a meddler.
- [25:05]
Nick Dana
She's not a meddler. She's never kind of meddled in my personal life.
- [25:09]
That's really. So now you got.
- [25:10]
So she said that? Yeah. And I said, yeah. You know, beautiful girl, plays music, sounds awesome, but, you know, have no idea how. And so I kind of stow that away in my mind. She keeps coming back to the forefront every couple months. My boss at the time was a huge Jimmy Buffett fan, and she was playing a benefit concert with him, and I was meeting with him in his office, and he had the benefit concert, and she walked on the screen, and I was like, I know that girl.
- [25:42]
Stop it.
- [25:43]
So signs here and there. And then finally, my sister, who is a meddler, I don't know if her and Mom, I hadn't seen them. They were. They continued to kind of be.
- [25:57]
Caroline Jones
Conspire.
- [25:57]
Nick Dana
Conspire in the background. Figured out some. Did some sleuthing and figured out that we had a mutual friend.
- [26:06]
Caroline Jones
You know how you can do, like, Instagram mutual friends? Yeah.
- [26:09]
Nick Dana
And they both do. They both are on the gram. Both of your sister and your.
- [26:13]
Yes. Yeah.
- [26:13]
Caroline Jones
Yeah.
- [26:14]
Nick Dana
And so they saw that we had a mutual friend or match.
- [26:18]
Caroline Jones
Fairy godmother.
- [26:19]
Nick Dana
Yeah, our fairy godmother, Jane White. So they were like, you know, you got to try and do something about this. And, you know, threw the challenge down almost. Anyways, I called Jane. Jane thought it was a great idea, but she knew how headstrong and intense Caroline was about her career and was like, it's a long shot, but I think you guys would be great together. And anyways, I tried several times.
- [26:44]
Were you touring?
- [26:45]
Got iced.
- [26:46]
Caroline Jones
No.
- [26:47]
Nick Dana
Yeah, she wasn't touring.
- [26:48]
Caroline Jones
She had really no excuse. I was just. People used to try to set me up and I was pretty close minded about it, honestly. Like, I didn't even. It wasn't even that I looked like Jane sent me next Facebook or whatever. Like, I never even looked at it.
- [27:02]
Nick Dana
Yeah, I mean, I think. Not that you. But, you know, just looking at this is a very attractive. I mean, you'd be like, this person's gorgeous. This person's gorgeous. I should at least go out on a date. You just were one down. You're like, I just. I'm gonna try. I'm gonna do.
- [27:15]
Caroline Jones
That's actually exactly what happened because he said he was coming through where I was at the time.
- [27:19]
Nick Dana
Okay.
- [27:19]
Caroline Jones
And I said, okay, well, I'll meet.
- [27:21]
Nick Dana
This person once offline. Whether that was.
- [27:24]
Yeah, yeah. It was a little detour, but luckily she's not good with geography.
- [27:27]
Caroline Jones
But I said, okay, well, I'll meet this person once so I can tell Jake and I did it and you can stop bothering me and that'll be that. And. But as soon as we met, it was like meeting your best friend, you know, it wasn't like, it wasn't.
- [27:41]
Nick Dana
Where were you? Where were you? Where did you meet?
- [27:43]
Caroline Jones
We were in Florida. We were in southern Florida.
- [27:44]
Nick Dana
But did you go to a. Like a place?
- [27:46]
Caroline Jones
No, we met on the beach because it was Covid. We couldn't go anywhere, so we just took a socially distanced walk. When we met, we went like this.
- [27:55]
Nick Dana
Yeah, I was. I had no idea what kind of germaphobe I was dealing.
- [27:59]
Yeah.
- [27:59]
Caroline Jones
I'm.
- [28:00]
Nick Dana
Personal questions of how you start dating, you know, like, you know, who's in your pod, you know, can you. No.
- [28:07]
Well, we were in Florida, in South Florida, so.
- [28:09]
Oh, by the way, that is true.
- [28:10]
Yeah. Yeah.
- [28:10]
I remember going to visit and it was early.
- [28:12]
Early days.
- [28:13]
Caroline Jones
Big germaphobe. So I was.
- [28:15]
Nick Dana
It was. But it was also so early that things hadn't really, you know, constricted much at that point. But we met and then I was supposed to be flying to New Zealand to move there for the next year.
- [28:28]
Caroline Jones
For the America's Cup.
- [28:29]
Nick Dana
For the America's Cup.
- [28:29]
Caroline Jones
For the. That campaign. Yeah.
- [28:31]
Nick Dana
I was supposed to be leaving, you know, I don't know. We were hanging out on the weekend, and I was supposed to be leaving on a Thursday because that was the flight that we were all going to be taking in.
- [28:39]
Caroline Jones
We did get to date for a few weeks, and then he was supposed to go.
- [28:42]
Nick Dana
Yeah, but it was each Thursday, that's true. That I was supposed to be leaving. So it was kind of. And then that we were, like, head.
- [28:48]
Caroline Jones
Over heels in love at that point. Like, it was very quick once we got to know each other.
- [28:52]
Nick Dana
So did you text your mother? Were you like, you were. I mean.
- [28:56]
Yeah, I said, I'm going to meet her. And I think she was kind of beside herself. That it all.
- [29:01]
Caroline Jones
Well, I think, like, three weeks after we started dating, we. I went to meet his family in Charleston. So it was, like, really quick.
- [29:07]
Nick Dana
Yeah.
- [29:07]
Caroline Jones
And then a couple weeks after that, he was supposed to move to New Zealand.
- [29:12]
Nick Dana
So. Okay, so you're going out for. For the audience here just to explain Nick's, like, incredible career in sailing. You are. You had been sailing with a team. You were doing the. The Volvo Ocean Race. Is that right? So now you're going to New Zealand to sail. What kind of boats for the America's Cup. It was like a sense of the crew size. You got your captain. You're supposed to leave on a Thursday and you tell them. I. Well, I don't know what you told them. I can't leave right away.
- [29:41]
No, no, it was the. The actual New Zealand government was.
- [29:46]
Caroline Jones
Yeah.
- [29:47]
Leslie Heaney
Oh, right.
- [29:48]
Nick Dana
Oh, by the way, this is actually. This is where Covid did give some. Some gifts. Oh, yeah, we have.
- [29:54]
Caroline Jones
We won Covid. Like, I want. Covid was a great gift for me.
- [29:58]
Nick Dana
Yeah. Yeah. I joined a team called American Magic, which was competitor for the 2040. 2021.
- [30:09]
Caroline Jones
Oh, yeah, sorry, I don't use.
- [30:10]
Nick Dana
And we had done a lot of training. We were. Our kind of winter training was in Pensacola, Florida. That's why we were living there. And then the whole team was basically going to move about a year in advance of the cup, move down there, all the team. There's, I don't know, 150 members of the team.
- [30:28]
Wow. Explain to me this. So for people that don't know people like me, how it kind of works.
- [30:34]
Think of it like Formula one. It's just because you're.
- [30:37]
You're like, people have to be on different shifts, right?
- [30:40]
No, no, this is the offshore racing that I used to do. This is. This was. You know, there's. There's kind of the two worlds in it in which you have the offshore racing, which is a lot like rally car, like off road racing. It's endurance. It's, you know, like the Baja or something like that. I always put into car terms because people.
- [31:00]
Yeah, okay. So offshore too. So offshore has to do then with what you're saying is a little more about like distance and sort of stamina and.
- [31:07]
Yeah. And you're going for days at a time. Whereas in the America's cup, It's like Formula One. It's the exact same length. It's a 25 minute race.
- [31:14]
I see. Okay.
- [31:15]
And then you're sleeping in your bed that night.
- [31:17]
So when people are putting together, I guess you could comparing it to like race car teams and things could be similar, but they're putting together their boat or their team. They're like, I want Nick, Dana and I want Nick. Is everyone have your. You have your sign parts of the boat, right, that you're in charge of.
- [31:32]
Yeah. It's a relatively small world in that. And to be honest, I was brought on for a role that didn't end up even really happening. The boats are kind of so much on the bleeding edge of technology. Nobody knows how they're going to really work until we design and build them and then go sail them. And this was the first edition in which there was foiling monohulls. So, you know, a single hull of a boat is actually on a foil, which is essentially think of like an airplane wing that is underwater. And when the boat starts moving fast enough, the whole entire boat comes out of the water. Comes out of the water and you start going really fast. And so the speeds are all different. The. The engineering is completely different. Everything. It was a huge paradigm shift, especially for that 20, 21 cup.
- [32:21]
Okay, this is really interesting. I have tons of questions because of what you just said. You know, I've always been sort of curious about, you know, there are people in technology like Larry Ellison, for example, and Oracle as a team. Right. I never connected the dots. That part of that interest for on that end might actually be people that are interested in how exciting it is to create new technology in that space is every time it's a newer thing or, you know, meaning. You mentioned you were talking about that piece with the hull, but. And you have to get kind of acclimated to the new equipment. When you get.
- [32:56]
Yeah, yeah, 100, you. There had never been an addition where there was a foiling monohull before. And it's called foiling. Yeah. Where there was. Yeah, yeah, sorry. A foiling sailboat A boat that comes out of hole.
- [33:10]
Okay.
- [33:10]
Caroline Jones
Yeah.
- [33:12]
Nick Dana
Okay.
- [33:12]
Yeah. So. Yeah, yeah.
- [33:15]
Caroline Jones
Either.
- [33:15]
Nick Dana
So that's why I'm trying to one and hull. I know it. Okay, good.
- [33:19]
Yeah. So you know a sailboat that comes out of the water.
- [33:23]
Yeah.
- [33:23]
And can sail upwind and downwind completely out of the water, being held up by, you know.
- [33:30]
So what does that feel like? Being strapped on. I would be.
- [33:34]
Caroline Jones
Me too, right? Yes. I feel like what he used to do is much scarier because you're thousands of miles away from land if something goes wrong.
- [33:41]
Nick Dana
Right. And those offshore races are. You are tethered to something. Right. So you don't fall off.
- [33:46]
You try to as much as you can, but in order to go do things, sometimes you need to untether air tags on people.
- [33:53]
You're like at night you're ever. Whatever you're waiting like and there's only 28 to see.
- [33:59]
Yeah, yeah. I mean it's tight. I mean last, last race I did in that it was eight people. So you kind of. You're very, very tight and you know what's going on. But yeah, I mean bad things happen and you do your best to.
- [34:12]
To. When you mentioned the 150. That 150 isn't 150 on the boat. That 150 includes people that are like people. The engineering of the boat. Making sure the boat's in great shape before you get on to actually sail it.
- [34:25]
Back to the Formula one analogy, it's the same as a pit crew.
- [34:29]
Okay.
- [34:29]
And then we have also a whole, you know, room full of designers. We have marketing team, we have management. We have, you know, a full cooking staff. I mean everything is this giant pod that is brought to the next location and we're completely self sufficient and we set up there. It's very secretive. Each team keeps all of their secrets.
- [34:59]
Caroline Jones
Like they weren't even like.
- [35:01]
Nick Dana
Right. Because of the technology.
- [35:02]
So we weren't even like Caroline didn't even get to see the new boat. And until well into New Zealand, you know, they didn't even let wives and kids in. It's. It's all sounds ridiculous because we're talking about sailing, but it's, you know those guys like Larry Ellison and, and our owners at the time and all that. It is something to get very competitive about. And technology usually wins.
- [35:26]
Caroline Jones
And there's a lot of money on the line too, right?
- [35:28]
Nick Dana
Yes, there's. Yeah, there's. There's no real money. There's no cash prize. There's a lot of money to be spent and then, you know, they hope to recover some dollars. But it's not a money making sport. It's a, it is becoming now more so with Larry Ellison's sale gp. And he's created, he's created essentially a Formula one for it. But the America's cup is an inherently very expensive and you do not recover your money from it.
- [35:56]
So in terms of sort of to get kind of give the full landscape right. Of the professional sailing space and maybe it's too broad to do that, but you've got sort of these offshore races and then America's cup is, as you mentioned, shorter. So you might have, you're gonna have different equipment, you might have different, A totally different.
- [36:13]
Oh, it's completely different boats, completely different sailors, everything.
- [36:17]
Yeah, but you are able to do in the offshore race, you can do that. The shorter America's cup race. And is there any qualifier for the America's cup? Meaning do you have to have won no other races prior to that or it's just.
- [36:32]
No, I mean, I can get into how crazy it really is, but essentially.
- [36:37]
I mean, I, this is so interesting because.
- [36:39]
Caroline Jones
I don't know.
- [36:40]
Nick Dana
I don't know. You know, I, I'll say.
- [36:42]
The offshore world is what I was definitely better at and I enjoyed a lot more. The America's cup is something, if you grow up, you know, sailing and in, and then move into professional sailing, it is the top of the sport in its own right. Just as the Volvo Ocean race or the around the World race is its own, you know, top of the sport. So you kind of always have that thing of I want to do it and if I get asked, I'm definitely doing it. It's like a, you know, you can't say no to that. It's. Yeah, it's amazing. And, and it's, you know, it's a four year job. So it's, it's nice to be locked into a contract in which you're, you know, stable for four years, which most of professional sailing is really just. You are piecing things together all the time and.
- [37:29]
Okay, explain that to me. So it's four years because you're practicing.
- [37:33]
You are building a team, then building a Olympics.
- [37:36]
It's sort of an Olympic level.
- [37:37]
Yeah. And it's building a team, building a design group, then designing the boat, then building the boat, then trialing the boat and getting it ready, and then doing two months of sailing to race it and hopefully make it through to the America's Cup.
- [37:52]
So when you say building the team, do you Mean, like having the. The. Just like you would for any other.
- [37:58]
Sport that has an owner basically has, you know, he hires a. A skipper or a head, you know, general manager of the team and that. He goes.
- [38:06]
And you're going, like. Almost like you're trading. You're looking to get the best sailors.
- [38:09]
It's just like any other professional sport. They'll. They'll. It's a small group of people. You're not really sending too many resumes out or anything like that. It's. They know you're a known quantity. They thought I was going to be doing a certain role. That ended up not happening. So I kind of shifted into, you know, more of a. A b role for. For, you know, another position. And the world is so small that once you've kind of made it to a high enough level, you can probably get your foot in most doors. But the America's cup is. Is probably the hardest.
- [38:43]
So now, are you. Are you still on the America's Cup?
- [38:47]
No thing. So that was probably. I'm probably one and done. In the Americas cup, they changed a lot of what's required in the crew positions. And to be honest, I was, you know, kind of bottom of the heap for. For our team in 21, it turned to a much more physical role of endurance athlete that didn't necessarily even know. Have to know how to sail.
- [39:09]
Okay.
- [39:10]
There was guys that were basically just generating hydraulic power in order to, you know, use the functions on the boat. And we were hiring Olympic athletes at that point. We were hiring kayakers being able to, like, actually.
- [39:21]
Is it by pulling in the.
- [39:23]
Yeah, there's a. There's there's an actual hydraulic mechanism that you grind with your arms. And then it. In the last edition, you're like Dwayne.
- [39:33]
The Rock Johnson or whoever. Is that right?
- [39:36]
No, it's more like. Yeah, like in the last one, they. In the last one, it moved to legs. So they have cyclists, and they were hiring all Olympic cyclists.
- [39:45]
That is fascinating.
- [39:46]
Caroline Jones
The boat does all the technology that humans used to have.
- [39:49]
Nick Dana
There's no more rails.
- [39:50]
Caroline Jones
Yeah.
- [39:51]
Nick Dana
If that makes sense.
- [39:51]
Caroline Jones
Isn't that crazy?
- [39:52]
Nick Dana
That is crazy. And so how many of those do you. How many. Because they're rotating, Right.
- [39:57]
Caroline Jones
You.
- [39:57]
Nick Dana
What is it almost like a relay race where you're like, you're. You've done. If you're doing America's cup shorter, but if you're doing it longer offshore, is it like.
- [40:04]
Caroline Jones
No.
- [40:05]
Nick Dana
No. So then the offshore is completely different.
- [40:06]
It is.
- [40:07]
That's all roads. That's all normal. Sailing, which is sort of where your heart. Yeah.
- [40:12]
And while you've been doing this, as you were doing this, you developed a love for photography. Right. And film. Right.
- [40:21]
Also, I did this with. With Abu Dhabi. So I was there. I was the captain of. Or the boat captain of the training boat out in Abu Dhabi in 2010. And I had an aim to sail on the boat. And then I blew up my knee, had a surgery. The general manager of the team was like, I really like having you on board, though. And there's a role on board here in which we need to film and do photography as the race goes. There's one guy who's dedicated to that on board. And so I said, yeah, I'll figure it out. So I went around that race as the photographer and videographer and. And terrible writer.
- [41:04]
I was going to say. Are these. Are these photographs now? These should be in the new house out in.
- [41:08]
Should be in a museum in Bricklin.
- [41:10]
Exact. Exactly.
- [41:12]
Caroline Jones
We actually. We are framing. We're doing a picture wall right now.
- [41:15]
Nick Dana
We don't have one sailing picture up.
- [41:16]
Caroline Jones
What crap. That is not true.
- [41:21]
Nick Dana
I mean, there.
- [41:21]
Caroline Jones
I actually said we need to take down some. Like, he has some world records.
- [41:25]
Nick Dana
Yes.
- [41:26]
Caroline Jones
Things. I'm like, it's too much sailing stuff, you know, because it starts to look. Your house starts to look nautical.
- [41:31]
Nick Dana
You guys are. I've been in the. In the marriage game for. For 20. What's 25 years? And, you know, there is that the first. I'd say the first seven years. It's like, when can I get rid of that. That one.
- [41:43]
Caroline Jones
And then you give up.
- [41:44]
Nick Dana
Yeah, yeah. Like, things. Oh, you just.
- [41:46]
Caroline Jones
I'm like.
- [41:46]
Nick Dana
I'm just gonna put it.
- [41:47]
Caroline Jones
We have designated parts of our house where things like that can live.
- [41:50]
Nick Dana
Yes. It's great.
- [41:51]
Caroline Jones
Yeah, man.
- [41:52]
Nick Dana
Caves are great. Listen, I'm not trying to. But I bet you those pictures are actually.
- [41:56]
Caroline Jones
No, I actually.
- [41:57]
Nick Dana
I love those kind of pictures behind the.
- [42:00]
Caroline Jones
You know, there's some really amazing.
- [42:01]
Nick Dana
Come to our house and be.
- [42:02]
I'm gonna.
- [42:03]
Caroline Jones
But also there's some really incredible sailing photographs of him in action that are in our house that are amazing.
- [42:10]
Nick Dana
Oh. Oh, I'm sure.
- [42:11]
Caroline Jones
Shout out. Amory Ross.
- [42:13]
Nick Dana
Very handsome subject, obviously. So back. Like, just take it back a little bit, though, Nick. So, you know, for listeners, I obviously know a bit about this, but from knowing you. But I, you know, you grew up, as you mentioned, your family had this. The shipyard in Newport and are very. Sort of grew up on the water. Yeah, but what is that? At what point beyond when you Start like taking the lessons at Sail Newport or the Ida Lewis Yacht Club. How do you go from there to becoming like the professional sailor you're sailing?
- [42:44]
There's a lot. And then, I mean, I can give you mine, but there's a thousand different ways into it. And I've always enjoyed that about sailing is so many people have so many different paths into it. And mine probably came more from a mechanical standpoint of being around the shipyard. I went to work on boats young and was kind of, you know, cheap labor but willing to do whatever. Yeah. And got a lot of exposure really young on bigger boats, which I think, you know, a lot of. A lot of the youth struggles to make that connection. And I was lucky with the shipyard that I was able to, you know, walk the dock and be like, I'll come work for you guys or whatever. And was able to get my foot in the door early and just kind.
- [43:29]
Of observe what they're doing on these bigger boats.
- [43:31]
Yeah, well, yeah, observe it from, you know, the build water, but exactly.
- [43:36]
Being the cheap lake. Right.
- [43:37]
Yeah, yeah. But that got me, you know, acclimated to a bigger platform of. Of a boat to then work out a lot of stuff. So then by the time I'm in my late teens or early 20s, I'd done a lot of miles.
- [43:53]
Right.
- [43:54]
And miles really, especially in the offshore world, miles is everything. The more exposure you have. You can't really train for these really big around the world races. There's nothing. The longest blue water races that there are five days, seven days maybe. So when you go the first leg of The Volvo is 25 days. So. And that's a nine month race around the world.
- [44:21]
Yeah. Where does it go? So what are the stops? Are you.
- [44:23]
It changes for the most part. It usually starts in the Med in Spain and then goes to Cape Town, South Africa and then it'll either go up to the Middle east or I could go to India. I did want into India. And it can go to Singapore, it.
- [44:38]
Can go to China and are you stopping there? Is it like the navy? Surely you get to.
- [44:43]
So you pull in, you've just beaten that bag out of that boat and you've got a full shore team that's waiting there, which I did on my first one with.
- [44:51]
I see. And they're going to tune it up and do all.
- [44:53]
Yeah, they fix it and you kind of recover for two weeks and then get back. Yeah, get back on the boat and.
- [45:01]
Because you're probably not sleep. You're probably sleeping in. In like.
- [45:05]
Yeah, you get to sleep, but I mean, more like pass out, but.
- [45:08]
Caroline Jones
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, on the. When they're actually on the water, they're doing four hour shifts.
- [45:14]
Nick Dana
Right. Okay.
- [45:14]
Caroline Jones
So they're not sleeping a lot. But then when they get to these places and there's all these men in their mid-20s and 30s, they're just going nuts in whatever city they're in.
- [45:22]
Nick Dana
It's like, it's like literally like shore leaves. Yeah. I love this. I have some friends that are single. I should tell them the Volvo race is getting.
- [45:29]
Caroline Jones
You should.
- [45:30]
Nick Dana
There's a lot of trade offs to having that.
- [45:32]
Really fun. Surely this is like a. Yeah. Okay, so let's get back to. You were going to move to New Zealand, right? Covid. Thank God. This is again, one of the gifts of COVID The other is zoom. I think you, you know, you stay. Right. Do you stay in Florida at that point and you two dating?
- [45:50]
I think we went in South Carolina and then at that point I had to leave. It was probably, we'd been together, I don't know, five weeks or something like that. And then I, I moved to New Zealand and I said, you know, to Caroline, you know, you're not touring. Do you want to move to New Zealand with me? And now that I know her, it blows my mind that she did it. At the time, that seemed just like a normal thing to me. But I wasn't, I don't know, I lived a very different life and I got down there and then she kind of, you know, sorted out everything on her end for over the next two months and then moved down and joined me. And then we had a.
- [46:33]
So are you're training for the race there? Right. And so I don't what happened to the music industry during this time, so.
- [46:42]
Caroline Jones
Oh yeah, I mean, that's, that's. I'm kind of self contained that way. But just to respond to what he said, I'm a very 0 to 100 person. So I never really dated a lot. I was very career focused. So when I fell in love with Nick and moved to New Zealand, all my family and friends are like, what has happened to Caroline? Like, she's. She's done a 180 in life. But I was all in on Jamie White.
- [47:11]
Nick Dana
Must have been so excited by this development. Yeah, you know, so.
- [47:15]
Caroline Jones
But Nick and I were all in pretty early with each other and so. And I was so in love with Nick and nothing was going on. I mean, all my tours had been canceled and like I said, there was just nothing that could have stopped Me, I was so in love with Nick that I just wanted to go to New Zealand and be with him. And I didn't know anyone there. You know, it's across the entire world. And I was able to get a visa through his team because at that time they weren't letting people in on, you know, they weren't letting tourists in because it was Covid and you had to go over there and quarantine in a hotel room for two weeks. And. Yeah, I moved a couple months after he left for New Zealand, I moved there and we spent eight months there.
- [47:55]
Nick Dana
So this is July of 2020 or sometime around.
- [47:57]
Caroline Jones
Exactly.
- [47:58]
Nick Dana
And are you living in Auckland? Where. Where are you?
- [48:00]
Caroline Jones
Yeah, we lived in Auckland.
- [48:01]
Nick Dana
Okay, so you're. Then after the quarantine, you move to an apartment and you've got the guitar out. I mean, obviously you're. As you said to yourself, this is like the first time you've been mad.
- [48:10]
Caroline Jones
As soon as I got to New Zealand, I found a bluegrass band, like a local bluegrass band there that I started collaborating with. And I was in the process of making my second record, Antipodes. So I found a studio in Auckland and a couple engineers there, and we were able to long distance overdub from Nashville with my management and production team here. And so, yeah, because, I mean, I was in love with Nick, but it's not like I can't work like I have to be playing music wherever I am.
- [48:39]
Nick Dana
But by the way, everybody had to adapt to the new circumstances, right? So they figured out how to do it. So what is an overdub? You're singing?
- [48:45]
Caroline Jones
Overdub is. An overdub is when you have basic tracking done on a record. So in this case, it was like bass, drums, some guitars that we'd already done in Nashville. And overdub is when you record other layers over that to finish your album. So for me, I do a lot of my own overdub. So I'm playing guitars, banjos, keys, background vocals, lead vocals. And that's. That's a whole other process of recording. That's like the part of the process that takes the longest. The initial tracking is pretty quick because you do it in Nashville with a bunch of session players.
- [49:17]
Nick Dana
Okay.
- [49:17]
Caroline Jones
So then I took all those tracks to New Zealand and was able to finish my second record there while Nick was working.
- [49:23]
Nick Dana
This is so great that you were both able to keep pursuing your.
- [49:27]
Caroline Jones
But it was like having a gap year when you're 30 too, because there was no Covid there and we were in love and it was like the Twilight Zone, because we didn't know. So we didn't have the pressure. The influence of our family and friends and work and career and this and that. Like, it really felt like we were suspended in time there in this amazing new place, you know, so we were able to kind of create a foundation of our relationship that I think we both really treasure and value. That didn't have a whole lot of influence from the outside world.
- [50:00]
Nick Dana
So you both have these incredible, thriving careers, and you have a son who's a toddler.
- [50:07]
Caroline Jones
Yeah.
- [50:08]
Nick Dana
Are you like, I'm going on a race. I'm going on tour. Are you able to kind of. Obviously, you figured out how to manage your different schedules, because both of your careers are sort of. When you're on, you're literally and figuratively, you're on. Like, you're either you're on stage or you're on deck, and you're like, how does this. You know.
- [50:25]
Well, I've ramped down a lot after the America's cup because we were going to be, you know, if I went back to doing what I did between the America's cup and Volvo, you could end up, you know, away from home 150, 200 days a year. So it wasn't really realistic. And, you know, I had achieved a lot of the things that I really wanted to do. And Caroline's kind of on the launch pad with her career.
- [50:49]
Yeah.
- [50:50]
And so I started, you know, venturing out and doing a few other things and still do some sailing and, you know, just came back from a race now, and I'm lucky that, you know, teams will still have me and I can. I can go do, you know, these races in amazing places, and a lot of teams that I keep in touch with, I still get to kind of, you know, jump in and out and fill in for people or maybe even do a season, but nowhere near what.
- [51:15]
I used to do, but I love that. But this is sort of your time, right, Caroline? You know, that does happen with. When you're in a partnership is just sort of, you know, you do kind of. There is. There are moments where it's terrific when one person gets to be able to kind of be there on the home front or be there more and have the other person be, you know, in a position where they're traveling or. Yeah.
- [51:39]
Caroline Jones
I do feel confident that we would be able to make it work. I think Nick is. Forgive me if I'm speaking for you, but he's also at a point in his life where he wants to explore some Other entrepreneurial ventures and things like that. Because I do feel confident that if he still wanted to sail like he did, like, we would make it work with. Because, you know, Nick is so supportive of my career and my travel. I want to give that back to him in every possible way. And we're very supportive of each other's dreams, and we're excited for our son to grow up seeing us chase those. The reason that I married and had a family with Nick, because I never thought I would do either of those things, is because he believed we could do that and still live this life. And so next week, we're gonna take our son on the tour bus for the first time.
- [52:27]
Nick Dana
And by the way, unsolicited advice.
- [52:30]
Caroline Jones
Yeah, please do that.
- [52:31]
Nick Dana
As, you know, when they start school, it's so much harder to do that. And what incredible time for you all to kind of be together and kind of expose him to just. And kind of such a unique life experience.
- [52:43]
Caroline Jones
100%. And all the kids that I know, especially from sailing families, who have grown up traveling and seeing other cultures and being around different types of adults, especially seeing the microcosm of a tour or a sailing team, like, these are groups of people, each of whom's contribution matters greatly to the final product. You know, it's not just the person stepping on stage. It's not just the person at the helm of the boat. Like, it's the person, you know, designing the boat. The person. Forgive me, I don't know. In my case, it's like the person hanging the lights, the person at catering, the person designing the set list, the person designing the video production. Like, all of those people make it go on every night. And if one of those people doesn't do their job, it doesn't. You know, it's all about cooperation and teamwork. So for our kid to grow up seeing that is really valuable. And, you know, Nick's support means the world to me. And growing up around music for Declan, I hope will mean the world to him. But I think, you know, it's a beautiful thing. And our traveling is just part of our life. We're very lucky that we have a support network and resources to be able to make that happen. And I'm at a place, like, with the Zac Brown Band, where they're all family men. Like, they're super supportive of me being able to bring my baby on the road. Cause a lot of musicians don't get to do that. Like, that's infinitely harder for a woman. You know, if you're a mom to Be away from your baby than if you're not. Not to minimize a dad's bond or dad's experience. But. So I feel very lucky in that way. But we're, we're excited.
- [54:11]
Nick Dana
So when does. So you're. When does the tour. The tour is imminent.
- [54:15]
Caroline Jones
Yeah. It starts literally on Tuesday.
- [54:17]
Nick Dana
Stop it.
- [54:18]
Caroline Jones
Yeah.
- [54:18]
Nick Dana
So when, when does. How long is the tour? I did see that you're touring. I just didn't know this was sort of the launch of a longer.
- [54:24]
Caroline Jones
Yeah.
- [54:24]
Nick Dana
Tour.
- [54:25]
Caroline Jones
Yeah. So we start on Tuesday and we're touring for two months this year. Then we have something very, very exciting at the end of the year that I can't talk about yet. But then we have gearing up.
- [54:34]
Nick Dana
I love that. We'll have to do a.
- [54:37]
Please tell next.
- [54:38]
Caroline Jones
Yeah. She can't.
- [54:39]
Nick Dana
She can't. But. But you're all over the US or is it. Is it a world tour?
- [54:44]
Caroline Jones
This tour will be all over the US and then actually we. We go to Australia at the end of this year.
- [54:50]
Nick Dana
That's so exciting.
- [54:51]
Caroline Jones
And then we have a very exciting end of year plans. But everyone will have to stay tuned for that.
- [54:57]
Nick Dana
I can't. We'll be. I mean I'll have be waiting with baited. You have to know this. Well I can't wait to see you on tour. I can't wait to come see. I'm gonna come see the sailing photos at this. At the new house.
- [55:08]
Be a short tour.
- [55:09]
Franklin, Nick and Caroline were so sweet. I was trying to get a studio closer to them in Brentwood and they. They'll shower name nameless but they double booked and canceled on us I guess.
- [55:19]
Caroline Jones
Do you wanna shout them out in Brentwood?
- [55:21]
Nick Dana
I'm like we really. So they were very kind enough to come. It's funny. Nashville is a terrific town but you know, at 4:30 on a Friday the traffic is not great.
- [55:29]
Yeah, we're about to leave it.
- [55:30]
Yeah, we're. Well, you guys are really gonna limit.
- [55:32]
Caroline Jones
You know. Do you mind if I add one more thing to the question that you posed? Cause you asked about schedules. Nick and I also were both very lucky to come from really tight knit families for whom family is a big priority. We keep each other accountable to have our priorities in check. And our family is our priority. And we're so lucky to also be able to prioritize the things that we love that we call our job. But that makes the schedule really easy because like when you know, I think, I mean don't you agree that like when you know your priorities and like I said, when we're in a position to be able to, like, Nick is just as close to Declan as I am. So there's never a doubt or a fear of, like, if Declan has to stay with Nick for a night or whatever. If I have a certain show that is so wonderful because of how close they are. But I also think that the fact that we can take Declan with us on a lot of these things is a real blessing, and so that just naturally takes care of itself, scheduling wise.
- [56:30]
Nick Dana
Yeah, but I think what you just said is really profound, that, you know, when you know what your priorities are, scheduling is easier.
- [56:37]
Caroline Jones
Yes.
- [56:37]
Nick Dana
You know, I haven't really thought about that. I mean, I'm gonna definitely cross off that hot yoga class that I don't go to as much as I should now, because that is sort of what.
- [56:46]
Caroline Jones
Complicates your schedule, especially as a woman, because, like, it's. It becomes a superpower. Once you have a kid, you have this priority. So every. Every hour that I spend away from him for my job, like, really matters. It has to be an important opportunity. It has to be something that moves my career forward. It has to be something that's creatively contributive. Like, it matters so much more than it ever did. And so that is a really easy thing to prioritize in my mind now, because the time with him, like. Like I said, every hour I spend away from him is time that I'm. That I'm taking away from him. So I want it to matter and mean something in the world. And I think both of us are operating like that.
- [57:23]
Nick Dana
Well, he's so lucky to have you both as parents. And I can't wait. I'm going to be following the tour. I will. I'm sure you're doing Nashville dates.
- [57:31]
Caroline Jones
Yeah. If you want to come, I can get you take. Oh, yeah.
- [57:34]
Nick Dana
Carolyn will take you up on that.
- [57:35]
Caroline Jones
I know.
- [57:36]
Nick Dana
Again, I'm so grateful to you both for. For coming in.
- [57:39]
Caroline Jones
So thank you. Thanks for having us.
- [57:40]
Nick Dana
Thank you so much.
- [57:41]
Caroline Jones
It's really great.
- [57:44]
Leslie Heaney
Aren't Caroline Jones and Nick Dana just delightful people? I mean, I learned so much from both of them and really enjoyed hearing all about their careers, but I most just really was impressed and inspired by how they support each other and prioritize each other and their family. I just think they're delightful people and I really enjoyed my conversation with them. If you too enjoyed my conversation with them, please rate or review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We love your reviews. We appreciate your reviews, and as you know, we usually release a new episode every Wednesday, but I'm taking a little bit of time off, so we'll be recycling some oldies but goodies. And I'll be back with some new episodes on May 7th. So until then, this is Leslie, and thank you all so much for joining the interview.