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- [00:00]
A
That's why I like venture. It's like you think of I got stocks in Peloton before the pandemic, at like $10. I sold too early. That was really stupid. I sold it when I hit like 30. I was so mad at myself.
- [00:17]
B
Welcome to the Investor, a podcast where I, Joel Palo Thinkle, your host, dives deep into the minds of the world's most influential institutional investors. In each episode, we sit down with an investor to hear about their journeys and how global markets are driving capital allocation. So join us on this journey as we explore these insights live. I think we are live now. So everybody, you know, really excited about today's guest. We have an alumni in the house. So Rachel Sachs. This is. I've been seeing this a few times where we see people coming back full circle, right? Like they've came in to the Sutton program and now they're like the mentors of the Sutton program. So we had who was there the other week, Evan was here, and there's two or three other people that now are coming in as guest speakers. So I want to hear, you know, a little bit about more personal aspects of you, your family, your career. And you know, look, we've had some one on one chats about just the challenges of transitioning, number one into the workforce. Like if you leave a job, the challenges of trying to get employed again and just get another job, of the anxiety of that. And you know, look, this is, this is real talk. And then on top of that, trying to break into venture capital. Right? So why don't we start with you, your family, you know, where you grew up, what your parents did, and then how you navigated to your early career. And then let's talk about Sutton. And then kind of the switch to, I guess you were at an accelerator for some time and now you're at like kind of a tech enabled venture fund. Right?
- [02:04]
A
Yeah. So, yeah, I guess I can launch into it. I was born in technically Virginia, which is my fun fact. I grew up in Maryland, like suburban Maryland, outside of little suburbs of dc. My father does in vitro. So that kind of sparked a lot of my interest in like very just new innovative things and kind of gave me a proclivity for enjoying stem. Like I kind of grew up. He'd be like, are you doing anything productive? Like it's like a Saturday. And he'd be like, okay, go online. My dad was on the Internet like in the 90s, like, and I would be like a tiny little kid like on his lap. And I had like a little do you know those little, like, ball things? It's like a ball mouse for, like, babies?
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B
I think so, yeah.
- [02:42]
A
I wasn't allowed to play video games, but I could do that strangest thing, like, wasn't allowed to play video games, but that one. So, yeah, I think it just. I pretty much would be reading stuff about physics. Like, that's what he'd make me do. I'd be like, so I just happened to do with that. School was, like, not great for me. I had undiagnosed adhd, like, and it was brutal. Depression, anxiety, the fun that. And there's a lot of my adult life has kind of been navigating that, especially in the workforce. It's. People don't talk about it enough. I think that's something that really, people don't want to cover it. It's still kind of one of the last few. Like, I guess it's kind of a microgrush. It's not great to say that, but it is, like, people will say really insensitive things about how you work, the way that your brain works and that you can't comply with whatever their format is or if you want to try something else. And I think that's something that really. I've worked in, like, diversity inclusion as well. I think that's something. It's still not totally there yet.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And it's bigger problems also. But it's also, like, it's still not.
- [03:38]
B
Well, the question is too, like, who did they think they are to be the governing factor of, like, what's normal? Right? Like, hey, you're not supposed to do this. Who is the. Who is the owner of supposed to. Right. So who is telling you that you're supposed to do things a certain way? Because I think we all have our own way of learning and developing ourselves. I personally don't believe in homework. You know, I think it's. It sucks because you're getting, you know, you're taking time away from your family. And I think the time that you're studying and doing work, it should be like, during school hours if you're a kid. Right. And I feel like the. It's super enriching to kind of be party, you know, part of fun activities and spending time with your family. Right. So I don't know. That's just my belief. But some other people may say, hey, that you're not supposed to do that. Right. That's not the proper way to do things. You're supposed to be a good kid and study and, you know, do your homework. On the weekends and, you know, go to Sunday school. Right?
- [04:35]
A
Yeah, Me neighbor school on Sunday, but that whole thing. But, yeah, I know. I feel the same way about homework as well. I think school just teaches you. It does prepare you for the workforce. I will say that basically, you have to do a lot of bullshit you don't want to do in order to make it. That's pretty much what it is. Like, I'm. I don't know. I'm not as impressed, like, anymore. If, like, I've just met. I've seen. Okay, so I worked at the Wall Street Journal for the publisher and the CEO of Dow Jones for two years. And I saw day in and day out, people with really impressive resumes. Impressive, whatever. And me, I went to art school, was telling them to, like, back it up. Like, you don't know anything. I was, like, reading their stuff and being like, this is trash. Like, you've learned everything is just all an illusion. So, yeah, I guess I will allude to that. I went to the New School for college. I went to actually the University of Arizona my first year. I also did not graduate high school on time. I retook like, two courses in a day, each one, like, and got 100%. That's like, honestly, online learning, I think, is just going to stay, like. I just didn't have the distractions of the classroom and other people. I didn't have the whole thing of, like, you must be physically here, even though it's terrible. And then I got diagnosed with ADHD when I was 18. So I kind of spent a lot of my adult life really learning how to regulate myself and regulate, like, how to deal with that and, like, everything there. So I've studied poetry at the New School. People are always like, I ended up in the business world. And there's, like, why? And I was. Here's what really is great about it. You are taking critiques all day in art school. People are. You have to stand up. You have to read your work, number one. So it makes presentations much easier. And they're just criticizing you. And. And it's never really that. Like, they'll go, like, personality assault, the character assault. They will just go in on you. Because that's kind of just. People are subject to doing that. Sometimes it's constructive, and that is not. And you sit there and you just have to just stand there, not cry, just take everything in and really, really comprehend it and be like, okay, this is how this affects my work. Great. Okay. Then they expect you to really redo it. And then Come back the next week that time and do it again. But it really did help me with like, resilience and helped me with being able to take criticism and it just really just take it to the face more so than anything else and really take just. And not also learn to kind of not be too. So married to my work in a way. Like, married to the ideas, married to like the fact of, oh, it has to be this way. What I have produced, like I'm leading a project or doing something. Oh, the way that I planned it out, it's going to evolve, it's going to change. So I came up kind of with the rule of thumb of like, do not exert more than 70 to 80% effort on one assignment at a time because no matter what, someone above you is going to change it. That's the rule that I kind of came up with in the end. And it really did help me eventually with everything. Oh yeah. And in college I wrote an essay that went viral on the Internet. I had a bunch of photographers in the New York Post following me around and then ironically ended up working for News Corp. I saw one of the photographers and got me in the elevator. I was like carrying someone's coffee. And it was just so bizarre to feel like it's the complete paradigm shift in that way. And they just had no idea where. Because you learn and like the media industry people are just commodities after a while. Like, you're not really. No one really cares that much. And I think that is the benefit also of living in New York for so long. You think you're self conscious about something, you walk in. No one cares. This is nothing. Whatever you think is wrong, like, doesn't matter. No one cares about it. So, yeah, that is a thing. They were not great to my family. They were not great to me. But again, it taught me even more just about taking criticism from people and just being tough and just learning kind of to do my own PR and brand and kind of when to say yes and when to say no. Because there's just a lot of really. I was 20 years old. They, they wanted. Dr. Phil wanted me to be on their show, which is like, nice, hard. No, no. Hard, no. It's like I told them, what did.
- [08:35]
B
He want you to be on the show for?
- [08:37]
A
They wanted to criticize me, like, tear my life apart. Be like, blame my parents for everything. Because I thought Dr. Phil worked well.
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B
Tell me about the news. There was some news article, right? So, like, tell me, tell me like about. Yes, you wrote something on like some Article.
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A
And then, yeah, it was just like.
- [08:52]
B
Told me there was some paparazzi or something following you or something.
- [08:55]
A
It was a whole thing. I wrote an essay on, like, thought catalog. It's like, that's. No one goes on there anymore. Sorry, but it's here. But at the time, like, this is like 2013. Like, that was still a thing.
- [09:05]
B
Yeah.
- [09:06]
A
I wrote an essay kind of about kind of just owning if you have wealth or not and kind of not apologizing it, but also not trying. I went to school with a lot of people who were very wealthy who pretended they weren't to get sympathy from people to just fit in, that kind of thing. And it just bothered me time and time and again. And I just. I didn't think it would get anywhere. I didn't think it would get anywhere. I didn't think they would take it. And then they kind of ran with. They found it. Oh, I found it. All this stuff, it's like, you learn, like, this is the funniest thing. No matter what I do, that's still there. I'm like, I'm going to be getting married next year. And I'm like, I don't love my fiance's last name. Mine's definitely better, but I'm like, do I take it just to go away from it? But I don't think it would go away.
- [09:48]
B
Yeah.
- [09:48]
A
I think it's enough in common. I think that the linkage, they would probably. The Google's, like, search algorithm would probably still have it. So it's kind of like, probably.
- [09:57]
B
There was a. There was a friend of mine that. Well, not really a friend of mine, but somebody that I knew. It was my. Somebody that knew my friend. And this person, like, went berserk on the. On the Metro north. And it got picked up by, like, oh, no. All these comedy shows and.
- [10:15]
A
Oh, no.
- [10:16]
B
And I think she had issues after a while. But. Yeah, I'm sure. Look, like you said, right, like, you. You get really paranoid about it. You're going. You're. You're applying to a new job. You know, people are going to be Googling you. But people move on. Right. There's some new thing that happened in the news.
- [10:32]
A
Yeah.
- [10:33]
B
And, you know, it's just. Look, Robinhood had an ipo, right. Great. There's another IPO this week. And then, you know, all this stuff is going on with Como. Right. So that. That hits the top of the newsfeed and, like, things. So the news moves and people move on. Right. And I think a lot of times we get really self conscious about like what other people think of us. And it kind of can be draining on like our progress at some point. Right. And look, we all, we all have done things that we regret and we all we can do is just keep moving. Right?
- [11:06]
A
So, yeah, I've had to defend myself about it in a lot of job interviews still. Even in the past year or so, like, I've had to discuss it because that's what comes up. It's actually funny, when I interviewed a WSJ, they didn't look it up. I thought they were. They mentioned something really close to it. So I brought it up first because I assume that they knew. And then I found out later on from like one of the people who interviewed me I worked really closely with. They're like, yeah, we never looked it up. And I'm like, what? I was like, isn't that your job to be doing that? Like, isn't that HR's thing to be doing that first of all before that? And then screen. Nope, did not look it up. But I still talked about it anyways. I still was like, okay, I have to get. I figured I needed to get ahead of it. Yeah, going into that, like, what do they ask?
- [11:47]
B
Do they make you explain it? Do they say, hey, you know, well, notice that there was an article here about you. You know, what, what was that about?
- [11:54]
A
Yeah, exactly. And it kind of like spit it more into, like, it taught me a lot of like how to deal with people. It taught me it was great for like the job. And I was at Dow Jones. It really was good for that. It's like working closely, the CEO, like being on display all the time, basically everyone watching you and every single move that you make and just being able to handle that, I think partially got me the job. I think. So, like, really in the end, like, being able to handle that level of public criticism as well, like, that's really. Does make you just really tough.
- [12:24]
B
Yeah, in a sense, for the most part. Right. I mean, any press is good press. Look at Robinhood, right? I mean, Robinhood, when they had so many product issues, we saw them shoot up like by $3 billion over the summer, you know, in the valuation. So sometimes, you know, and bad press can be a catalyst to kind of make people pay attention to you. And it's up to you to kind of be able to channel that in the right direction. And maybe it tees up a conversation saying, look, that was a learning experience for me. And this is what I learned. And this is how I've become a Stronger character. And this is why I maybe would be a good vc, because I've been able to kind of put what I feel, you know, is out there. And I feel like a lot of people put out there what they think people should accept. Right. This is what kind of like your brand should look like versus kind of being more authentic and saying, look, you know, this is me. This is who I am. I've made mistakes. I'm a human being and I'm gonna move on, you know?
- [13:26]
A
Yeah. I kind of hate, like, the whole concept of personal branding. I just really don't enjoy it. I don't like it. I feel like I should be doing it, but I don't. That's just. I just don't have really have really, the attention span such. I kind of don't care at this point. Plus the fact of, like, it was already established for me, wasn't it? So I kind of like more proving, not proving against what the universe thinks is my brand more so than anything else. I just kind of. It's funny, maybe I should think more about that. I wonder that all the time. Like. Like, I post things on LinkedIn. I enjoy that. It's interesting to do it, just like to create conversations, but it's not like as much of a regular occurrence, maybe, as it should be.
- [14:02]
B
But yeah, yeah. We had a guy, you know, earlier this afternoon, he was at. He's at Ripple Ventures, Matt Cohen. And one of the things that I take away from that conversation is always stay at the top of the newsfeed. Hopefully it's not for, you know, you know, yeah, you know, really bad stuff, but, you know, having stuff that's updating people and being at the top of the news feed, because if you're not relevant and you're not really up to date, you can just easily fizzle away. And there's other more important, you know, relevant things that just pop up to the newsfeed. So. So I think just kind of like, you know, if you're a thought leader or if you're in tech or venture, just trying to at least contribute to the community and sharing information that forces you to read it and have mastery of it, but then also just kind of distribute it to the. To the community so that they can get value out of it as well. So. Yeah, so you're. Okay, so Dow Jones and then tell me what happened after that.
- [14:59]
A
Yeah, well, I can talk about Dow Jones itself. Actually, Dow Jones kind of is what made me realize that I was interested in venture capital at all. So a lot of my job was doing very intensive people research. My job would be to create. So Sheryl Sandberg actually has an entire team of people that do this, which is like, I learned that, which is interesting. You create, basically. It's like. So they used to call it a Facebook before Facebook was a thing. But it's like a briefing document all about these people that the CEO is going to meet with, complete with, like, financials, complete with, like, talking points. Like, one time my boss had to meet with Ted Cruz and I had to go look up stuff about it. And I learned just like, I'm a big fan of putting in the people research into that and being very, very into it. But in general, just looking at all these people, it'd be like a lot of tech events, a lot of other people, and I'd be like. And you'd also would get a lot of decks from founders because they'd be trying to, like, there was a lot of clingers on and kind of just wanted that. But I would. I learned by looking at it, like, what was a good deck, what was a bad deck. And I finally learned kind of what a venture capitalist does. And I was like, holy shit. This is what it is. This makes sense. It always just been, like a year or two ahead of people with a lot of everything, weirdly. But it was never good at the time. It was never like, you're in high school, you're wearing something that's going to be cool in two years. No, no one cares. No one's like, about it. No one's gonna be interested. But my cat, like, the funniest thing ever. My guidance counselor in a college meeting about me to my parents called me cool. And I was like, that is the weirdest, weirdest possible choice you could have made to say about me. But, okay, I will take the compliment. But just looking at all these things and seeing all these people, I was like, okay, this is interesting. I want to be here. So then I kind of just did more work and figured out, okay, well, how do I end up here? So I ended up with some political BS going on in the office, as it all happens, as all big corporations. I ended up being put into the diversity department, which, like, I had a good time there. And then I was let go from there because they wanted to just let go of the department.
- [17:01]
B
Sure.
- [17:01]
A
Which was not great. So after that, I kind of just spent time trying to figure out what to do. I applied to, like, SV Academy to try and be, like, in tech sales. I was like, maybe I can get into VC that way. Just kind of was trying to figure this out like what to do. Supply new jobs.
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B
You always knew you wanted to get an adventure and you were just trying different paths to try to get closer.
- [17:22]
A
Yes. So then I started. I ended up at like some. It was like a software sales kind of role. It was horrible. But then I met someone through there who was like starting a startup. They think they're finally actually getting traction. I still kind of get involved with. They're creating their own like crypto token. Fairly strange. But I instead I met someone through there who was. You had a bunch of deals, was doing venture. Complete nut job. This guy was complete nut job. Took money from me, all sorts of nonsense. But he had very good deals. He had incredibly good deal flow. Like I kind of was like okay. I really judged it on that choice. And then I was like then I found this class and then I was like I took it. He actually got so mad at me for taking it because he was jealous because he didn't have any training in anything. I just was going into that and then I ended up leaving that and going to a venture studio which was like very interesting. Another path way in there. And accelerators are also Adventure Studio is kind of like it's very similar to an accelerator but the ideation comes from within and then the fundraising goes outward.
- [18:25]
B
Yeah.
- [18:26]
A
And was not for me, not my kind of thing. I was like I wanted more traditional, I wanted deal flow. I wanted to see decks. I wanted to be doing that instead. So then I ended up at Sweater. So the founder Jesse actually was working with the venture studio that I was at. And then I kind of just like I wanted to leave. So I was like I was interviewed and I've been there ever since like about April now and I moved over to. Finally moved over to the venture side and it's been really cool to just to see it. So it's a combination of like a direct to consumer product that's going to be an app and it's going to have basically for non accredited investors to invest in startups. But it's really more so like a fund of funds versus like a reg cf, like start engine, any of that kind of thing. So really more so you're acting as a fund of funds or an lp. So that's what's really cool.
- [19:19]
B
So you can invest in emerging managers through the platform.
- [19:22]
A
You're gonna try and do that. Hopefully that's.
- [19:23]
B
That's really cool.
- [19:24]
A
There's a lot of plans that we're gonna be Trying to do and just thinking.
- [19:26]
B
Yeah.
- [19:27]
A
It's just so much fun to think of venturing to so many different ways because there's just so. The ecosystem is just so large. Like I've been the women in vc, Slack Channel and Group. I've been there for like over a year. I love it. I was actually. We did a panel with them this morning about just like different methods of research, people who are analysts and associates and then like where I'm trying to try to figure out like deal tracking, like CRM situations and everything with that. But the community's amazing. Like it's just.
- [19:53]
B
Yeah.
- [19:54]
A
There's so few. Like if you think about it, I mean this class is an outpace. Like it's a kind of like outnumbers in a way. But that's not the norm most firms. It's like I'm the only female analyst at the company right now.
- [20:05]
B
Yeah.
- [20:06]
A
Love it. I don't feel any issues. I don't feel like, oh, it's like it's too much of a boys club or anything. I actually feel like very. It's open and accepting and that's really great. But very traditional firms, it can be very. Basically a lot of times I feel like it's. If you don't have investment banking experience, they consider that you're trash. Or if you haven't founded a decently successful startup, it's like no. So that tends to be a very difficult bar to entry. But that's really. For New York. I feel like other places it's very different. But New York BC is so particular. It's so small. It's such a narrow kind of situation. But the world of venture is just so large and there's just so many more different. Like so there's a lot of SEC stuff that's going to be shifting and that's very interesting. Like there's a bunch of other very similar companies that are kind of coming around. Like Titan is one.
- [20:51]
B
Yeah.
- [20:52]
A
A bunch of things through that they have their. And then also like just crypto just exploding more. So Etherium is back. I'm very happy. I put a lot into. I'm very happy came back today. Very happy that it came back today that finally like they had like. It's just so crazy just to see the volatility of it. But I like. I like the volatility. I enjoy the risk and I think that's why in particular VC is just very, very appealing. I mean there's. You do a ton of due diligence before you do anything. But just the fact of like really being able to pick something so far ahead and have it be successful, it's just like for me just really hits right? Just this feels very, like everything comes full circle and it's kind of a lot of things that I've had issues with or things people have not enjoyed for me, like, that's accepted, that's great, that's what they want.
- [21:39]
B
And then how do you feel like pandemic. I was going to ask how do you think the pandemic has impacted this? Because I feel like, you know, the last year people were just not spending money, right? They weren't going on crazy vacations, they weren't, they weren't balling out. So they were putting money into Robinhood, right. And they, they had nothing to do. So they're sitting at home learning how to do short, you know, shorts and trades and, you know, joining the Reddit crowd. Right. So it's just been kind of amazing seeing how the level of sophistication of just the retail investor has evolved. So that's kind of not surprising me that venture is kind of unbundling now to get into opportunities for the retail investor not only to invest in direct deals, which Angellist is already doing, but also being able to write checks into emerging managers. Because if you got a $5 million fund, you've got a couple handfuls of 2550k checks and you got a $3 million to $5 million seed fund, right? And you can go ahead and deploy capital. There could be programmatic rules where you get to co invest and that triggers once you do, once you allocate a certain amount or something like that. So I feel like there's a lot of unbundling that could happen and programmatic tech that could really augment venture that isn't there now. And it seems like Sweater is doing some of that stuff.
- [23:06]
A
Absolutely. And it's funny, I was reading up, so I do stats and all these kind of things. So 23% of the people invested in capital markets are retail investors now. So you're almost got a quarter of that exclusively as retail investors, like thinking just of how big that actually is. And really it was Robinhood that definitely sparked it for sure. I mean, I haven't looked at my Robinhood profile in a while because it's been depressing for a while because I, I kind of moved over a lot for more just regular. Because the returns, the returns on like just regular capital markets are just like very, they've been good, but they're kind of Subpar. Once you kind of go into, see what crypto is like or, you know, ventures like, like venture like kind of time and time again like just surpasses the capital markets. It's like 50%. It's like, it's like, yeah, it's like by 50% basically is like what that stat is, which is nuts. I think that's just gonna be the future. I think just opening it up more and more to more people. I think it's just going to continue to evolve and still going to be a thing. And I think Spider really is kind of opening the door for that. And honestly, I hope there are more competitors. I'd love to see that. I learned from you. And it's honestly like when there's more than one competitor in space, that's a good thing. That means that that's good. I mean that's a good deal. That mostly means someone has thought of this idea and there's more than one person doing it. And I think that's really. And then it becomes kind of a battle of who is doing it better.
- [24:20]
B
Yeah, I mean, sometimes, I mean, this is a trend that I've seen too. I mean, and this is just the fact that I've noticed. Right. I mean you could be an amazing company and have such innovative technology, but there's kind of a company that's not that great, but their marketing and their branding and their community is so amazing that they overlook the fact that the product sucks. And look, I mean many companies, but there's been plenty of companies that have generated outsized returns and the product was mediocre and there was amazing products out there in market that just didn't do it, you know, So I think that's, that's interesting. And then maybe we can talk a little bit about, you know, so you're, you know, you're with Sutton Capital, got some hands on experience. What were some of the things that circled back to you when you were breaking into the venture role? Like maybe walk us through any advice that you have to kind of nail a venture interview. Because some of your role is it's probably some due diligence, it's probably sourcing screening. So maybe do you see anything that kind of circled back into kind of the current role?
- [25:31]
A
Of course, yeah. I mean, being a sudden like being encouraged to really go and reach out to founders definitely is a big leg up. So leading a lot of venture scouts that I've been dealing with a lot lately, they're across different fields, they're kind of a lot of Them are very unsure. Even these people are CEOs of companies. Like, and they're in the startup world and sometimes they're just like, I don't know that much outside of my specialty. And I purposely picked something outside of my specialty. When I was in Sutton, I did deep tech deals. I was like, I purposely was like, okay, I want to learn as much as possible and as quickly as possible and really push myself out of my comfort zone because I enjoy that a lot. So I was like, okay, let me go find things that way. Let me go and tap into like more scientific talk. Let me go talk into more mathematical talk and like go in that way. So being able to plunge into things has definitely been incredibly helpful and reaching out and just, honestly, just familiarity with doing really due diligence on everything. Being able to handle a lot of deals, being able just to look at everything. I really just, I don't know, you get this like, kind of more like sophisticated look at it. Like, I work with a bunch of people, been at other funds, but I don't know, like they, sometimes they're like, I don't know, like kind of a male, female environment. Sometimes they're just like, they don't. They underestimate what I know, especially because they're like, oh, you came from my adventure studio. And I'm like, okay, well let me tell you what I know. And I'll be like, well, what about this, this thing? They list this. Let me go check your model. Let me go check this thing. Let me go see what the IRR is on this. And they just like, are like, what?
- [26:55]
B
I mean, I think, look at you. You know, for me, looking back, a lot of times I see things, you know, just come full circle. So I think for me, you know, I, I was an engineer, worked in deep tech. I think your, your husband, your fiance, sorry, is an engineer. Right. Isn't he in the aviation industry?
- [27:15]
A
Civil engineer.
- [27:16]
B
Civil engineer, right. So I was working in deep tech and I just never thought that in the beginning, right. Like when, when I was starting my career, you know, back in like 2008, it was just not cool to be in tech. It was like frowned upon. And you were only considered cool. You were in New York in 2008. Right. So it was only cool if you were working like 90 hour weeks as a banker. You told people you were an engineer, they're like, ah, it's not cool. And then everybody got burned out and then all the bankers got into tech.
- [27:46]
A
Exactly.
- [27:47]
B
All of a sudden make so much.
- [27:48]
A
More money in tech. It's ridiculous. Also, like, engineers don't make that much money. That is like the most shocking thing in the world to me, learning that like really well trained mechanical engineers assistants make more money than them. Like, I, I saw like new assistants at Dow Jones who made twice as much money as they did.
- [28:04]
B
I'm like, I think it depends too, because I have. Depends on the location, depends on the company. So I had one of my buddies worked at Apple and I mean, you would just be shocked as, as far as like how much they would make. So I think the company and I think the type of engineering. So if you're building like, you know.
- [28:21]
A
Building actual things mechanical, you're building like he's actually doing contracts like the DOD and like, yeah, assistants make more. I think that's really more. So I think you learn how to advocate for yourself. And that's something that if you don't want to make waves, you don't want to advocate for yourself for making more money. As it happens, oftentimes I think that's always just the most important thing is to advocate and not do as many things for free. I learned that the hard way and then also kind of trying like to know your worth and to know your value and to not be afraid of it anymore and to kind of just go through it no matter if you're like, okay, well, what's the worst thing that could happen? They say no, yeah, yeah.
- [28:54]
B
I think for me, like the deep tech and the technology, you know, kind of flowed back to now Venture focusing on deep tech. So I think that helped me. I think for you, what I'm, what I'm observing is just your boldness to be able to, you know, share how you feel. You know, surprisingly or not surprisingly, that's like the core of Venture, right? Because what happens is you like a deal and then everybody else hates it and you're either right and you're contrarian and right or you're wrong. And it's good that you got some other data points to validate that you're wrong. But like, there are some people that I don't do that I don't think always do well in Venture that are really just agreeing with the GP because they don't want to get fired, they don't want to get in trouble, they don't want to get judged. So I think the ability to thoughtfully disagree and share how you feel and, and if you disagree, share why. And hopefully there's some thoughtful process around that. And I think that could definitely be a good trait to Have. And I think maybe the stuff that you spoke your mind about in the past, maybe that kind of helped you kind of mold an investment thesis. And then the way that you tackle looking at companies and really believing a certain way, you know, and really having conviction. And having conviction. Conviction around. Because if there's no champion for the deals, I feel like a lot of times the deals just kind of fizzle out because it's not really a lead. And especially when you're looking at like thousands and thousands of companies, sometimes a lot of them are great, right. But if you only have a fixed amount of capital, you can only deploy to a certain number of companies. Right. So you can't deploy to all of us. You got to figure out which ones are the best one. So walk me through, you know, kind of how that muscle got refined a little bit with Sutton and now, you know, with the tech enabled company, how you've kind of had to handle just like the volume of deal flow and then how you kind of source and screen.
- [30:54]
A
So yeah, convicted. Like I use the word conviction all the time when I'm talking about at the team. Like that's the word I picked it up from so much like conviction.
- [31:02]
B
Like it's probably like a meme, like a vc, it should be.
- [31:06]
A
But honestly conviction. And I think that's what is something that I guess works well for me is that I am very openly emotional about things and I'm very happy to kind of like I can pull it back when I need to, but I can really bring it when I absolutely need to. Also, like I've had like there's someone I've been working with has been leading a lot of the network and the deals and I've kind of come in and it's like we've been definitely clashing a little bit on back and forth on stuff, but that's, that's how these things work. That's how teams work. Because I've been very, very much like more cautious about certain things. I've been like. Because there's a lot of pressure sometimes to have a lot of deal flows, a lot of pressure to have a lot of sponsored deals to go to the partners and go to other. And I was saying, I pointed out probably not as tactfully, but I was like very direct. I wasn't saying you. I wasn't saying that, but I was saying we need to make sure that we feel conviction about these deals before we just send them out to other partners or anything because that's going to make us look bad. If you don't do that, like, you have to be able to really, really feel it. And it's kind of a matter of like, okay, well, are you not going to get any deals at all? Like, no, you will. You have to just kind of just keep going for it and just keep, keep on it. Yeah. You know it when you see it. You know that excitement. Like I'm someone, I get very, very excited about a lot of things, but I know when I look at a deal and I feel like it's very meh when I look at it. There's one that passed through our network. It got excited. It was venture qualified. We decided that it was going to could work. But I personally thought, I don't know, I was like, I'm not enthused about this.
- [32:38]
B
Sure.
- [32:39]
A
So Obi, we'll be talking about that partners meeting tomorrow being like going up on a bunch of them. I think we got like 10 or so this week that we're gonna go look at and think about. But it's like, you really gotta feel that conviction about it. And I would definitely be getting emotional that me, I would definitely be like, I don't feel that great. I feel like this is interesting. I feel like it has a use. I understand that it is what people would use it, but. But I don't think this is going to be that great. Like, there's certain ones, you know, like, okay, this might get acquired. Like there's one that we looked at that it is great. Like learning really through Sutton, all things. Learning how to really look through Crunch Base, really learning how to look through PitchBook, knowing what you're doing with it, and then learning kind of how to have the extra eye. Like one of them I was like looking at. And you just kind of learn to trust your gut instincts. Like I was looking at him like, huh, you know what this looks like? It looks a lot like masterclass. So then I went to Crunchbase and of course one of the major investors was a major investor masterclass. So that automatically I'm like, you see, like, you know, you put those connections together and you're just like, okay, this just went up like three points in my mind. Okay, that makes sense. And then you kind of go into it again. I think that actually is a lot also like the briefing document passed of kind of dissecting how companies work and how people work. And I would have to put business opportunities within it. I would have to go to the chief revenue officer and that department and be like, okay, how are we doing on like Newspaper subscriptions. I would basically have to like sell newspaper subscriptions through the CEO, their CEO meetings. But you learn kind of how to have a really trained eye to understand what the needs are of the other party. So it's great for figuring out which like firms to work with. If you're going to co invest with anything. Who to co invest with specifically. Yeah, think things of holistically. It's like, okay, well we should go talk to the founders and think who have they pitched. So we don't suggest a firm that they've already pitched because that's just going to make us look stupid. Yeah, these kind of things used to it.
- [34:37]
B
And then walk me through how the. So there's scouts on the platform, right. So anybody can be a scout and then you train them or it's somewhat, it's where it's.
- [34:48]
A
We're in a pilot phase. I can't really say too, too much about it, but we'll be refining it and figuring out we trying to figure out really how much we want to open it up. And I think we probably will further down the further down the line. But it's definitely not a livor to say that much about it. But absolutely, there's definitely a process for it and it's a lot of it's really fun to be building that process and a very deal pipeline. And that's because I mean you like taking this class, you know the guts of how a firm works. So it's kind of, it's kind of being like an emerging manager in a way and kind of figuring out how the fund is going to work. And that's been incredibly fun. Like that's, that's always my dream honestly is to have my own fund that hopefully I can hit that in maybe five, 10 years. But I've learned from like dealing with different other business situations. And I was like with that business partner, I was not ready for that level yet. Absolutely not. Like, and I was actually speaking today to a CEO of like a medical device company. And like we were talking like you saying like everyone wants to be a CEO. And I'm like, no, I've learned my lesson. And if you work closely with CEOs, you just learn. No, it's not that glamorous. It's not that fun. I just like the best spot. If you really like people think that they want to be a CEO. No, you want to be a senior vice president at like a big corporate company because you don't do anything a lot of the time. Like I saw a lot of people making like 600,000 a year doing lunch as a Cipriani for forgetting to expense them every month. You don't do your expenses, the company gets charged and then people happen. That's what people want. They just don't know what they want. There's a lot of people who are lazy out there and that's what they really secretly want and they just don't know it. But that involves a lot of ugliness and a lot of hiding secrets or a lot of cronyism or just not great things. There's not great things.
- [36:36]
B
And you did some investor relations for a little while too, right after you didn't you do. Wasn't that like something that you did after Wall street for some time?
- [36:45]
A
Yeah, it's fun. Best relations is also fun. I mean you kind of feel like it could feel a little like y. Sometimes you're kind of just going back and forth. But I mean once you kind of work for News Corp, you're just kind of like, ah, it's all gray, it's all relative anyways after a while. But you learn kind of like how everyone feels about everything. And if you're dealing with like high net worth individuals all the time, it's not that difficult. It's not that different really than like working at a company like News Corp. It's not because you're doing, it really.
- [37:10]
B
Is a sales pipeline, right? So it is a, it is a business development lead cultivation role. Right? You're building, you know, you're, you're managing the existing pipeline, you're growing a new pipeline and then you're following up with like several touch points after. Right. And yeah. And you know, and I guess what's interesting too is you know, how that evolves. We had a really good discussion this afternoon with just how that's evolved from fund one to fund two. Right. Because your strategy, your LPs are going to be more of the high net worth individuals and you're focusing on like fund one and fund two. Even fund two. And then I think, you know, fund two is when you're getting into more of the bigger family offices and like possibly maybe some fund to funds and maybe some institutions, but you know, your strategy and your approach is going to be different. And then I think it's interesting too with kind of a tech enabled venture fund because some of your, I mean your LP essentially is kind of like it could be a lead investor that's investing in you as a company as well. So would you guys consider yourselves like a fintech Company or a fund or just a hybrid of both, I guess.
- [38:24]
A
Hybrid. It's definitely hybrid. Definitely a fintech kind of enabled hybrid. And that's really fun is like I like, I really make myself close to the product team too. So that's really fun for me to think about these things I like to think of again, like working. You learn the easiest way to do your job is just to learn everything about everything.
- [38:40]
B
Sure.
- [38:41]
A
Like I did a company wide report every Friday, every week. I would make sure like pretty much people were very late with it, but it gave me a really good excuse to go track them down. So I would pick a new department almost every week. I would introduce myself if they didn't know me already and then I would just ask them like about what was going on. So that would make my work a lot easier to understand is how the company works as a complete ecosystem. So the more that you understand about a company and every single part of it, even if you're not in it, because we tend to silo ourselves off into a little like what we know and we want to do, but thinking about just how other people think or what they're thinking about the product, it'll just save time for yourself, for everybody. And it kind of honestly saves money too. I'm, I'm weird. I feel like it never pays off for me when I'm like, I do money saving like kind of thing. I figure these solutions out and no one cares. But that's fine, Whatever. It does end up making my time easier. You have to work smarter, you have to work more efficient. Like I don't really do the same thing twice. Exactly the same. I don't like that's something a lot of people don't do and they're kind of uncomfortable with that. But it's like that's my comfort zone is kind of just being really uncomfortable and just constantly figuring out a new way to do things. Like I was trying to figure out, I'm trying to get the deal screen whole deal like fixed up. I was like, I can't stand the way that the person who made it did it and decided to do it. I'm like, this is not as efficient. It's not really, I don't know if this is telling people what they want to know or anything. Like that's really, that's what I care about. I think in life anyways is just kind of efficiency, kind of just getting it done and just kind of figuring out like you can always improve things about yourself. You can always improve how you're working and how, what you're doing with everything.
- [40:19]
B
Yeah. And working with product, you know, because you know about my product background. So you would be. So you would almost be kind of wearing maybe a pseudo product hat, but you'd also essentially be the stakeholder. Right. So you're going to probably tell them because that's how product people can build stuff. Right. They focus on the problem, they focus on the user. So, you know, I'm assuming they probably ask you like what your workflow is, what your goal is when you like go into the portal. Right. Like what are you doing? Right.
- [40:49]
A
So it's just fun to know it that way. And again it makes everything like everything is connected and it's kind of ridiculous. Think it's not. So the more that I know kind of about the product that is being built, the more I can think about how we can make things better in like three to six months. Yeah, I kind of always just think things of things like directly ahead and then three to six months out because it's just, it's more comfortable. It's just, I don't know, I'm comfortable with it. That's what I got used to after a while. And I think that's something, I think adventure you have to really be comfortable with is like also the fact of like you're not seeing. So you ain't going to be seeing returns probably for another five to seven years, but that's totally fine. And that's exactly how it works. You're not going to necessarily be seeing it right away. I think it's. People think that venture is like this glamorous, get rich quick kind of deal. It's not, it's not, it's more. It's a long term investing. You're really investing in the founders, you're really investing in the vision of everything, having conviction about it and kind of just being like, all right, onto the next thing. Okay, great. But you're also kind of maintaining those relationships and it's great if you have adhd. It's phenomenal as a.
- [41:50]
B
It is. I mean, look, that's probably why I like it. Venture works for me. I mean, I've changed my career. This is my third pivot in my career. Right. And I mean you're probably on your third too. Right. But I was an engineer, I was a product manager. And even when I was in product, I changed industries. You know, I was in fintech, I was in aviation, I was in media. And I think it's because, I mean, look, ADHD is What some people call it, but maybe other people call it just curiosity. Right? You want to learn. You have a thirst to kind of always learn something new and if not, you just get bored. And that's just kind of what my issue was. So I think venture is great and I think it's very fitting for me being a generalist investor because it just kind of keeps me fresh to learn like just new things and new sectors. Because if I was only doing fintech, I feel like I would just get bored out of my mind or just kind of lose. I feel like you just run out of, you know, opportunities. Right? I mean, that you think are interesting because how many, how many more crypto trading apps?
- [42:52]
A
Oh my God. No, I know. I can't. I can't even. I'm like, I go deal source sometimes with the women in VC thread and I just go skip across different areas. As long as it's like the right one for us or the right stage. It's so fun. It's just like, it's the most fun thing in the world to see just like what people are coming up with. And I'm like, things that people would dismiss as fluffy. I'm like, bring it. No, you got to think of like, you look at the deck and you're like, okay, this is like ca. Do you know Creative Artist Agency has a venture arm now?
- [43:20]
B
Oh, they do.
- [43:21]
A
So yeah, they do. I saw a deal from them. It's called like, it has a. I think it's going to be with Gwen and Paltrow. I think that's who they're picking because they were alluding to like she was pictured in the deck and it was a very Goop esque product. It's like a $200 shower head that has like this like spa transformative thing. People are going to buy it. That's the thing. I think that also was being in touch with kind of more of the darker side of things from life. It's. That makes like I'm a great stock picker because of it. That's why I like Venture. It's like you think of I got stocks in Peloton before the pandemic at like $10. I sold too early. That was really stupid. I sold it when I hit like 30. I was so mad at myself. I was like, that's a good one. But I think also kind of what you learn is like being fine with, okay, well, I got a good return, fine, move on to the next thing.
- [44:13]
B
Yeah, that's what it is. I mean, you're Never gonna sell at the perfect time. Right. There's always gonna be maybe a higher price or you know, just someone that did better than you. Right. So I think just kind of getting out of that cycle and just having tunnel vision and focusing on what your goals are, what's gonna make you happy. I think that's, you know, that's been helpful for me. I mean, may not be for everybody else, but. And then are you guys a generalist investor? You guys look at everything or is there a certain sector that you prefer to focus on? Or maybe you as an analyst, is that, is there a certain sector focus that you're kind of, you know, tasked to work on?
- [44:47]
A
It has to be consumer touching. That's what it is. People need to be able to use it in their daily life. That's really.
- [44:53]
B
So no B2B. So no B2B SaaS?
- [44:55]
A
Oh yeah. B2B counts though. B2B does count. We are willing to look at B2B which is what's very cool about that is like, okay, I love looking at B2B stuff. It's super interesting again like having to deal with like so Dow Jones big product was like called pib. It's like professional information, the professional information business. So that was also part of the times. I had to sell that to the newspaper. So I learned a lot about B2B and kind of that industry and like what it costs, which is insane. Some of them are just.
- [45:20]
B
Yeah, I think I know what you mean. I mean B2B, like if you think about Bloomberg, right? There's still customers that work for Bloomberg that touch it. They're just not consumer retail customers. Right? But I guess that you guys, you guys won't touch deep tech, right? You guys won't do space deals is what I'm assuming, right?
- [45:37]
A
I'm never going to say never, never, never say never on these kind of things.
- [45:40]
B
Look, you gotta, you have a six month plan, right? You. So maybe month seven, you know, we'll get into. You guys do quantum and space and who knows?
- [45:50]
A
That's the fun of it. That's the fun is just like letting everything build. And that's the fun of also like when you're. It's a startup mentality to a fund and that's what's, and that's what good.
- [45:58]
B
Product managers do too, right? They build for the user and they think about what the customer wants, right. I mean if the customer starts providing a bunch of feedback saying, hey, so I'm looking at a deal now, it's pretty much retail Investing for space deals. So you can invest in space companies for as little as 100 bucks. So it's like the Republic of space. And, you know, there's just a bunch of engineers, a bunch of tech people that love sci fi, and it's a huge market, you know.
- [46:26]
A
Oh, yeah. Capitalize on that Bezos thing. And I was like, really happy. I bought my fiance the same, like, Moonwatch is, like, getting his professional engine engineering present. I was like, yeah, the price of that watch just went up because Bezos, moon landing. Yes. We were on his little space trip. Not even necessarily that one, but I was like, I love when that happens, when you just predict a trend, really. Right. And then it happens to this, like, you pay off, like, years later and you're like, oh. I'm like, well, that watch just doubled in value, even though it doesn't have the blue origin little strap on it.
- [46:54]
B
Yeah.
- [46:54]
A
I thought, what is that?
- [46:55]
B
It's a special, like, moon landing edition.
- [46:58]
A
Watch with the skeleton back. Because he likes, as an engineer, enjoys a skeleton back. I got it, like, from the real real, but it was still not cheap. But I was like a present. I was like, when we got engaged, kind of a mixture of that. And I was like, that was a fair thing, like a nice present. But I was like, I bought it knowing that probably would be valuable. It continue to be valuable, especially like, limited edition skeleton back. The only one that Omega makes in that version at all. So I was like, once I saw Bezos wearing, I'm like, well, no, it's like a $20,000 watch, baby. Like, yes, I was a great one. I love when that kind of thing happens. And that's just fun of seeing if you're right, like a consumer part and all. I actually started when I was like, first, like, well, I still do it actually, too. Like growth marketing. I still do that too. So that's very fun and very interesting to think about from both perspectives of everything. So it is kind of a pseudo, like, product. Like, I know a lot about the consumer. I know a lot about who's following us. I know a lot about kind of who we're going to be appealing to and kind of how to appeal to them. And I think that's just been really fun for me as well. Like, product is just so interesting product. I think in order to understand venture, I think it's important to also understand product and to work with founders. I think you have to have a very intense appreciation for the amount of work that goes into any kind of product and to really Be able to break it down and to understand what they're looking for and what their consumer is looking for. And that's just incredibly fun all the time just to be able to do that.
- [48:24]
B
I like to think so. I think product is really the core of like how the customer experience works. Right. And if you. I mean, it's good to kind of get your hands dirty if you're going to invest in a company. Might as well test the product out.
- [48:36]
A
Yes.
- [48:37]
B
And see if it's. But you know, an interesting insight that I've learned too is there's amazing companies where you don't really like the product, but it's just an amazing business.
- [48:46]
A
Yep.
- [48:46]
B
Right. So there could be a really cool, you know, female shoe company. And even though I don't wear female shoes, it could just be an amazing business. Right.
- [48:57]
A
Yeah.
- [48:57]
B
You gotta know, sometimes you have to kind of be sensitive about that too and just step away from like you being a fan of the product versus. Is this gonna get us outsized returns in seven years?
- [49:08]
A
Oh, yeah. No, you gotta be outside of your head with that one. Like there's tons of stuff I'm like, like that one that I was like at ca me, I'm like, I would never buy it, but like, I know a lot of people who would and they would love anything. Gwyneth Paltrow friggin sells on goop. Just does exceptionally well and there's a lot of opportunity and that's already the money and the budget that would be spent on something like influencer marketing, which that's what my sister does for a living, which I find very entertaining.
- [49:31]
B
Yeah. Look, every VC is a pretty much a media company, right. Andreessen Horowitz is investing.
- [49:36]
A
Future is actually great. I actually like future. People I feel like are very mixed on it. It's fun. It's definitely fun to read. And I'm wondering how that's structured. I guess. Got to be interesting. Can you imagine, like people there, like, I mean, they must have the biggest HR department. I swear to God. Like, I'm like thinking, I see. I feel like every single person I see on LinkedIn, somehow I'm like, partner there. I'm like, how. How many partners are there? This firm.
- [49:59]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah. They have a huge department for like startup support. So they have like a growth team. They have, they have like a product development team. Yeah. I mean they're. And they're all partners. Yeah, you're right. I actually know.
- [50:13]
A
I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, how the hell they're like 40 partners at this. Like, no, I see probably more. I've seen like maybe two, like 200 something ridiculous. And I'm like, what? So there got to be someone as a partner in future. I'm sure they probably nabbed someone from like, like New York Times somewhere. I'm sure, like whoever is technically the editor. So Future.
- [50:30]
B
Future is the media arm of Andreessen. Is that what it is? Okay, got it.
- [50:34]
A
It's only digital. It's. I think it's great. I think it's a really great thing for the venture community to have. I feel like it's maybe of a lot of like other dicks like Andrews. And like, I'm like, you know what? Like, it's interesting. It's interesting to see the guests on it who write guest articles were there. I'm very curious to see what's going to come out of it. Are they going to try and like, make it into a book? Are they going to try and I think a lot of VCs probably who want to get into that space. I mean, that's probably the spot to be like, yes, everyone's on Medium. Everybody's on Medium. Every VC has got so much on Medium. I should be on Medium. I just have not. I think I'm just more. I'm having a lot of attention for things. I'm like, I need to kind of know my. Know a little bit more before I'm going out there. Because I'm like, yeah, I mean, that's why I, I wasn't. I didn't like, decide to study, like writing until after that article either. I was like, all right, people paying attention to me for this, I might as well learn everything that I can about it in order to do anything with it. That's kind of my.
- [51:32]
B
What do you think of audio? Just in. As in. Well, as far as just an investment sector. You don't like.
- [51:39]
A
No, I think it's going to go. I think it's just, I think certain. I've actually seen some like, more deals come across about. Because like an audio. I'm just like clubhouse. I mean, they're changing their name. I think that's the funniest thing. I'm like, I like what? Like Daria, like Mystic Spiral. We're changing our. What? We're changing our name like that. I feel like what that's like, that's kind of like having an identity crisis there.
- [52:02]
B
So what. What format do you think is better? I mean, I. Look, we. I. I like to write. I just don't Sometimes I just can't sit down and block up the time. But I do enjoy writing. I feel it's more time consuming and I have to really kind of organize my thoughts to do like you know, a blog. Right. A blog post. But you know, audio is natural for me. Just because I'm just having a conversation. I can fit in more text in one sitting and I don't have to edit much. Right. I mean, if I say something wrong, sorry, you know, but like I think, you know, you can, you can take, you can take video, rip the audio, distribute that. I don't think everybody has the time to sit through a whole episode. So maybe bite sized content. I don't know.
- [52:48]
A
You know, I mean, maybe bite sized audio could be very interesting to think about. If someone wants to try and make that a thing, it's going to keep exploding. I'm sure it will. I'm just. Personally, I hate it because I'm horrible at listening to other people. I will say that fine. And I know myself, my best medium is probably not this exactly like that's okay. But I'm definitely a lot more eloquent when I can organize my thoughts and think and put it into writing. I'm definitely like much more intelligent when I'm writing it out and I have a chance to be like, did I.
- [53:19]
B
Really want to say that?
- [53:20]
A
Okay. But I think it's audio will continue to explode. I think it's just gonna be a thing. I've been liking a lot of Saw a deal today is like a transcribing services because everyone's on Zoom all the time. Horrible if I'm. If you're bad at taking notes. I mean otter good. But there was another one. I think it's.
- [53:37]
B
I feel like that's just a feature, but I feel like that would just be a feature for Zoom at some point. Right?
- [53:43]
A
It should be. Why is it not just a plugin.
- [53:45]
B
That you can sell the zoo as an upgrade.
- [53:47]
A
I haven't they literally. Why have they not? That's.
- [53:49]
B
I know.
- [53:49]
A
That's what's shocking to me. Like I feel like why is Otter not like merged with Zoom? I'm like, I feel like they're the big player. Or there's another one, right? Like Firefly or something or whatever. What's it called? It's like something fly is another one. I've seen a few of them and I always like really impressed that like it's oftentimes almost exclusively when I'm meeting with VCs. Someone's got a Record like a little like note taking app as one of the people. And I'm like, huh? And I always just like to listen and like hear about and be like, hey, can you tell me about this note taking app? I haven't seen it. Or like which one is it? Because I mean that's the fun all the time is like that is the best part of being around VCs. It's just constant like shiny new things all the time. And especially like the women in VC thing I gotta do. I really try to make an effort to go to different groups within the whole ecosystem.
- [54:36]
B
Just within women in BC.
- [54:38]
A
Yeah, women of BC.
- [54:39]
B
Okay.
- [54:39]
A
It's like 5,000 people now or something.
- [54:41]
B
That's great.
- [54:42]
A
It's amazing. No, it's really great. And that's, I was actually saying to like my analysts, like a team. I was like, so when we start reaching out more to like partners, other things, I'm like, if we see if you're trying to match like Forbes people, if it's a woman, give it to me. Because most likely that's a weird thing, but it's so true. Like women are very, very supportive of each other. In B.C. i found that to be in particular like not in tech. I've not seen that in tech. I've not seen that in business. What I'm seeing at a vc, just time and time again and everyone.
- [55:12]
B
Have you reached out to Transact Global? Transact Global is also another good female VC community too. I know some of the people there, so I can definitely. Yeah, they're a really great community.
- [55:22]
A
They're awesome. I love these type of groups. Like everyone.
- [55:25]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I think you need to have more communities, more tribes, more support systems where you can really feel safe and share, share ideas and kind of bounce it off of people. Right. Because we're not all, you know, most times we're wrong and we need people to help us just make sure that we are thoughtful in how we make the decisions. Right. So I mean you're not, you're not always going to be, you know, organizing your thoughts in the right way. So just kind of getting other people's insights. Maybe somebody made a mistake similarly in the past and that thing that they learned from, you know, it could help you save a lot of money, right. From not investing in that sector.
- [56:03]
A
So totally. No, they're always just so great. I love just hearing everything. I actually love being proven wrong too. It's just so it's, it's fun. I like if I have hear a compelling argument against me, I'M always very happy with that. I'm like, I honestly, I enjoy kind of when I'm at a meeting, people are, like, poking holes in the deal, being like, I don't know about that one. I don't know about that part of it. That, like, they don't have a. They haven't. They can't find their revenue. Like, what is that? Like, what is this business model? This is crap. They didn't put competitive advantage. Like, what. Like, what is their competitive advantage? Like, what is that? Like, I don't even know what they're going to do with that. So I enjoy when people do that. It's important.
- [56:41]
B
Yeah. No, this is great. Well, I know we're at time, so if anybody has any. Yeah. If anybody has any questions, just chime in. So just, you know, yell out your question if you do have one.
- [56:52]
A
Could be anything. I don't even care. I'm happy to take any questions. People have told me some horrible things on Twitter, so don't even worry about it.
- [56:58]
B
Yeah, so good. And while they think about a question, if they have one, you know my famous question at the end, right? So just think about a, you know, a mentor that you've had and, you know, any kind of piece of advice that they've given you. And, you know, if you want to share that with us, it'd be great to take that wisdom back.
- [57:17]
A
This is like, one. I'm like, oh, my gosh. I have.
- [57:19]
B
Yeah. Some people usually aren't ready for this question.
- [57:21]
A
Yeah, I know. I should know. I should have known that. Oh, do you have a fishing. What is this? When you have a fiction novel that has influenced you, I wi. Oh, oh. Oh, my gosh. No, it's hedge fund. It's a hedge fund one, though. That's what I'm thinking on. What's. Oh, my God. What is the name of it? I am blanking on the name. It had a really cool name. I am literally visually imagining the COVID It is white. It has, like, a lot of red, like, yellow and blue on it and, like, a weird kind of thing on it. It's on my bookshelf in the basement. I'm like, three floors away because, like, yay. Killing me. Killing.
- [57:58]
B
Who's one of your mentors? Who's somebody that you look up to? It could be, like, somebody you haven't met. Could be Tony Robbins.
- [58:06]
A
My dad. My dad says everyone who says they know what they want to do with their life is full of shit. Basically, everyone is still trying to figure it out.
- [58:13]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [58:13]
A
Always like everyone is faking it. They're all just being like, I know what I'm doing. You don't. You, when you're in your 40s, 50s, you don't know what the next couple of years are going to look like. And I think it's just being comfortable with that. That's it.
- [58:26]
B
You're always learning. And like, look, at some point we may, you know, I mean, you may not be a VC forever. Right. You may pivot and become. Become an author or do something else. Right. So whatever it is, like, you, you make a good point. Just try to embrace it and just. And just try to be happy and just try to find happiness, I guess. And I think that for me is what I've been trying to do.
- [58:47]
A
So, yeah, that's the point. I mean, my. I'll say this. My life goal in terms of happiness is a consistent like 70% happiness throughout a day for a year at a time. That is my ultimate life goal.
- [59:02]
B
How do you measure happiness? What does happiness mean?
- [59:04]
A
I am excited to wake up in the morning and to begin my day. I know I. Then I'm kind of just go through my whatever, morning routine, whatever it eventually is at that point, who knows if I have kids, if I like, whatever. And I'm excited to go and do whatever it is that I'm doing throughout the day. That is most likely work, because I will probably work forever. And I like it.
- [59:25]
B
If you like what you're doing, you're not working.
- [59:26]
A
I like it. I like working towards something. I need something to kind of put my focus to. And then at the end, I know that the day is probably going to have, if you're working probably about 30% unpleasantness to it, but for about 70% of it, you're really enjoying what you're doing.
- [59:41]
B
That's a good point. Yeah.
- [59:43]
A
And then you go home, you're excited to go home, you have dinner, you're probably with your family, whatever, whoever, whatever that looks like at that point, and then you go to sleep excited for the next day to begin. That is what happiness is to me. And it's 70%. That is what I am striving for it. I think I have somewhere around 50%. That's okay. I'm working on it. That's really the goal in life.
- [60:08]
B
Yeah. And it's like you got to keep chipping away at it. Right. I mean, you're at 50 now, so you're not going to get to 70 tomorrow. Right. So you got to slowly chip at it. And I think you know, you see it getting closer and closer.
- [60:19]
A
So, yeah, that is the goal.
- [60:23]
B
Well, you're out in Philly. Hope either I get to go out to Philly or you come out to New York.
- [60:28]
A
I'll be back in New York. I'm always trying to some type of.
- [60:31]
B
Alumni event at some point, so we'll get something on the books. And thanks for coming.
- [60:36]
A
Oh, God, thank you for having me.
- [60:38]
B
Thanks for coming back full circle and, you know, now you're a mentor, so appreciate you dropping knowledge and mentoring everybody.
- [60:47]
A
Yeah. Bring some good deals, guys. I feel like. So it's when. Yeah, it's Wednesday, so, I mean. Yeah, part of meetings Monday. Right.
- [60:54]
B
So there may be some opportunity. You know, obviously, you're not allowed to share anything, but there could be some synergies at Some point for VCs and possibly people who want to, you know, break into venture to probably interact with you. Right. At some point. Always.
- [61:08]
A
I'm always about it. Always about it. Whatever. Is it such. If you want to be in this industry and you want to be dealing with it, this is the way to go. And always happy to help. Always. Like, it's. It's hard to break in once you're in. It's. It's great. You're kind of swimming in choppy waters, but that's the point.
- [61:25]
B
Yeah.
- [61:26]
A
It's like people who enjoy whitewater rafting. That's what you're doing all day every day.
- [61:31]
B
But that's to sit on a still lake. Right.
- [61:35]
A
It is the most boring thing in the world. I know, I know.
- [61:38]
B
That's just me, you know?
- [61:39]
A
No, same. Honestly, same. Okay, guys, have a great night.
- [61:44]
B
See you. Thanks, Rachel.