Podcast Summary: "The Investor With Joel Palathinkal"

Guest: Shwetank Verma, General Partner, Leo Capital

Date: September 21, 2025
Host: Dr. Joel Palathinkal

Overview

In this episode, Dr. Joel Palathinkal interviews Shwetank Verma, General Partner at Leo Capital, discussing his unique path into venture capital, the differences between family office and fund investing, trends in India and Southeast Asia, building a VC firm, what makes a standout founder, tips for breaking into VC, and much more. The conversation offers deep insights into the venture ecosystem across regions, as well as hands-on career and founder advice for up-and-coming investors.

Shwetank Verma’s Background and Career Path

[01:27 – 05:49]

• Grew up in both the UK and India; began in the UK before returning to India and then back to the UK for university.
• Early entrepreneurial streak:
  • Started first company in university, leveraging a regulatory loophole to employ Territorial Army members as bouncers, successfully sold the company after graduation.
  • Entered Pricewaterhouse’s Entrepreneurial and Private Client Team, gaining exposure to the family office ecosystem, including working with notable clients like Richard Branson.
• Key transition:
  • Joined Claremont Group (Richard Chandler's family office) in Singapore, moved from accountancy into private equity and early-stage venture investing.
  • Built and exited a healthcare business before launching Leo Capital with a partner.

Notable Quote:

"Some of these things you learn just by doing... Having a good mentor back then would have been very helpful and led to a slightly larger exit."
— Shwetank Verma [02:11]

Family Office vs. VC Fund Investing

[05:49 – 10:12]

• Time Horizons: Family offices can take a longer view; VC funds face exit pressure aligned to fund cycles.
• Risk Sensitivity: Family offices are more concerned with preservation of capital on a deal-by-deal basis, compared to the overall IRR focus of VC funds.
• Investment Committees:
  • Family office IC decisions can be swayed by family preferences.
  • VC IC focuses more on matching investments with the fund timeline.

Notable Quote:

"In the family office, your IRR might be great, but these three deals return zero—why did that happen?"
— Shwetank Verma [07:06]

The Evolution of Family Offices in VC

[08:44 – 13:19]

• Growing trend of family offices building direct investment teams, though many still lack the access or know-how that seasoned VCs provide.
• Co-investment requests are common but can be unattractive for funds.
• Family offices fare better in later-stage deals; early-stage direct programs remain difficult.
• The myth of infinite time horizons — in practice, even families have their own “impatience cycles.”

Memorable Moment:

"I sound self-serving when I say this because I’m a venture capitalist, but there is more to this business than just the provision of capital."
— Shwetank Verma [09:38]

Secondary Markets and GP-Led Opportunities

[14:31 – 16:36]

• Monetizing deal access: VCs sometimes structure SPVs for hot secondary shares (e.g., local equivalents to SpaceX/Airbnb like Grab).
• Secondaries-only funds are emerging, particularly funds buying GP interests in existing funds as a liquidity strategy.

Quote:

"I don't think you can build a strategy of a long-term fund around them, but you can certainly super returns...if you get one or two of these right."
— Shwetank Verma [15:36]

Market Trends: India, Singapore, and Southeast Asia

[16:36 – 28:08]

• India:
  • Digital infrastructure transformations (Aadhaar, UPI, Jio) have fundamentally changed the market, making data-driven and social commerce business models possible.
  • EdTech surge since COVID, with uncertain long-term behavior shifts.
  • Embedded finance is rising, driving financial inclusion.
• Singapore:
  • Regional hub for fintech, government actively fosters industry growth.
  • Singapore-based teams often serve broader Southeast Asian markets.

Quote:

"India is the cheapest data in the world at about 20 cents per gigabyte—[that] has transformed that country over the last four or five years."
— Shwetank Verma [17:05]

Leo Capital: Structure and Strategy

[25:25 – 28:08]

• Leo Capital founded by Shwetank and Rajul, joined by Dinesh in Bangalore.
• Invests in two main buckets:
  • India domestic tech.
  • Enterprise tech with Indian connections "building for the world" (often Delaware C-Corps with India-based teams, focused on global SaaS).
• Some Southeast Asia opportunistic deals—leveraging Indian market learnings.

Evaluating Founders: The Three T’s

[28:08 – 39:45]

• Framework: TAM (Total Addressable Market), Team, Traction.
  • TAM: Bottom-up market analysis; focus on realistic pathways to scale.
  • Team: Founder-market fit, ability to attract & retain talent ("regretted vs. non-regretted attrition"), coachability, resilience, ability to handle ambiguity.
  • Traction: KPIs depend on business type:
    • B2B: Evidence someone pays for and uses the product (not just pilots).
    • B2C: Cohort retention (day 7, 30, 180, etc.), "customer love," integration into core workflow.

Memorable Insights:

"If somebody's trying to get into payments and say we'll make this happen at 1/50th of the cost...shows certain naivety, right, the founder has not understood which game he's playing."
— Shwetank Verma [34:23]

"I call it the three T's: the TAM, the team, and the traction."
— Shwetank Verma [28:24]

Red and Green Flags in Founding Teams

[32:55 – 39:21]

• Red flags:
  • High attrition, especially co-founders leaving early.
  • Lack of knowledge about competitors.
  • Poor understanding of capital needs and competitive landscape.
  • Misalignment between founder vision and actual business requirements.
  • Inability to retain top talent (regretted attrition).
• Due diligence tips: Talk to both regretted and non-regretted attrition employees, former employers.

Practical Advice for Aspiring VCs

[39:45 – 42:07]

• Carefully interrogate your motivation—venture capital is a long-feedback, low-glamour, rejection-heavy business.
• Typical paths:
  • Be a successful founder/exit, or join a fund right out of university.
  • Otherwise, embed yourself in the ecosystem (help founders, co-invest, add value).
• Emphasize long-term reputational capital; helping founders is the best entry point.

Quote:

"It's a business saying no pretty much 9.9 times out of 10. It's a business with very long feedback loops."
— Shwetank Verma [39:49]

The Scout Program Question

[42:40 – 45:11]

• Larger funds can more easily run formal scout programs due to capital constraints.
• Most VCs informally leverage ecosystem “connectors,” but true scout pools are rare outside Silicon Valley.
• Cost and operational overhead are key limitations for smaller funds.

Regional and Thematic Questions from the Audience

[45:11 – 50:05]

• Insurtech in Singapore/APAC:

  • Still emerging; "top-up" private insurance layered on universal healthcare, with opportunities around foreign workers not covered by national systems.
  • Healthcare and fintech trends: APAC is mobile-first, with huge growth in telemedicine, payments, and infrastructure.

• On Founder Revenue Misses:

  • Rarely do founders hit their projected numbers; what's important is alignment of ambition, hitting near-term targets, and understanding what future investors expect.

Financial Inclusion and Sector Outlook

[50:16 – 52:11]

• Financial inclusion remains a huge, multi-layered market in India and Asia (especially insurance is less than 30% penetrated).
• Entry is harder in payment verticals, but many sub-sectors remain open for innovation.
• Cautioned not to get "excited by ideas in the abstract"—always return to TAM, team, traction.

Impact of the Pandemic and Sector Rotation

[52:22 – 53:48]

• COVID created immediate trends (e.g., spike for edtech and work-from-home, lending companies suffered), but long-term shifts depend on the “job to be done.”
• Focus on customer problems, not short-term sector rotations.

Final Life and Career Advice

[54:11 – 54:46]

• "Never say no to yourself."
  • Don’t self-reject—let other people say no, because you’ll be surprised how often you actually get a yes.

Notable Quotes and Timestamps

• On family office pressure:
  "There's more scrutiny on a deal-by-deal basis versus venture." – [07:18]

• On the real meaning of traction:
  "The key question is—is there customer love on the customer side? And on the B2B side—is this truly something that is going to be embedded in the core workflow?" – [38:56]

• On team diligence:
  "A lot of people are able to bring on talent but are unable to hold on to it, and that sooner or later leads to disaster." – [34:16]

• On breaking into venture:
  "Try and follow the ecosystem, identify a few areas you are excited about, and go out of your way to help those founders... It's a three to five year horizon." – [41:20]

• On entering financial inclusion:
  "Only about 30% of Indians have insurance at the moment, so there's a lot of growth left." – [50:47]

Key Takeaways

• Venture capital is relentlessly long-term, uncertain, and requires both analytical rigor and relationship-building.
• Emerging markets like India and Southeast Asia are being transformed by digital infrastructure and present huge opportunities in social commerce, edtech, and embedded finance.
• The “Three T’s” are a practical, powerful framework for evaluating deals: Total addressable market, team, and traction.
• Breaking into venture requires patience, proactivity, and building real value for founders—there are no shortcuts.
• Final career counsel: Take more risks by not self-rejecting; you might be surprised at the opportunities that await if you just ask.

For more insights on VC and global capital allocation, tune into future episodes of The Investor With Joel Palathinkal.