November 2, 1993 Malibu Fire live

Summary

The Issues of Life with John Jolliffe – November 2, 1993 Malibu Fire Live

Host: Brynn Jolliffe Foster
Date: January 10, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode offers a gripping, real-time account of the 1993 Malibu Fire from the deeply personal perspective of John Jolliffe, as he connects live on air with his daughter, Brynn, who is evacuating from the danger zone. The episode uniquely blends the immediacy of a developing disaster with the therapeutic themes of connection, resilience, emotional processing, and community support. It stands as a testament to vicarious learning and the enduring lessons born from adversity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Crisis Live on Air

• John’s Concern as a Parent
  • The episode opens with John expressing how the fire personally affects him—his daughter is in direct danger. He wrestles between wanting to protect her and wanting to keep broadcasting for the benefit of listeners.
    • “Have I lost my perspective? My gosh.” (00:00)
• Coordination and Communication Challenges
  • John describes attempts to reach Brynn amidst downed lines and chaos, illustrating the communication hurdles during disasters.
• Poignant Decision-Making
  • He instructs her: “If you see smoke or fire, just walk across and get in the water.” (00:55)

2. Firsthand Account of the Fire (Brynn’s Story, 01:15–07:20)

• Immediate Evacuation Experience

  • Brynn shares her process of trying to leave, the confusion, and her interactions with others in the same predicament.
    • “We waited as long as we could, but the fire was, like, right on top of us, so we had to leave.” (01:29)
  • She notes power outages, gridlock, and insufficient resources (cell phones, fuel).

• Acts of Community and Support

  • Amid the chaos, neighbors and strangers band together to help one another.
    • “Everyone was coming together and people were really nice and helpful and trying to water each other roofs down. And we were giving people rides.” (02:32)
  • Compelling imagery: professional basketball player seeking refuge, neighbors cutting trees to halt the fire’s spread.

• Material Loss and Emotional Response

  • Brynn witnesses her friend’s house burning and potentially loses her own apartment, but focuses on safety and community rather than possessions.
    • “I tried not to look back, but my friends ahead of us were, like, looking back and they said it. It was burned.” (02:14)
    • “No, I don’t care about CDs.” (02:27)
  • Raw emotion is present: "Right now I’m still in shock because I just pulled over at the nearest place and people were taking pictures of us driving out." (03:34)
  • The terror is palpable: “PCH wasn’t moving and I thought I was going to have to run at times.” (03:21)
  • Brynn’s gratitude and worry for others is clear: "I just hope everyone else is [safe], too." (06:10)

3. Parent-Child Dynamics in Crisis

• John vacillates between professional composure and paternal concern; he admits to struggling balancing his roles as broadcaster and father.
  • “It’s the first time I’ve ever been a father, and it’s the first time we’ve ever really had to evacuate you...this is the first time I’ve had to worry about where you’ve been and trying to do the program.” (06:18)
• The exchange is filled with tenderness and humor amidst anxiety.
  • “You do it live. Yeah, good. That’s a good point, that we could talk about this, and it just happens. Another issue of life...” (06:18)

4. Reflections on Community Response

• Resilience and Altruism
  Brynn and John recount how neighbors and strangers helped each other, creating a sense of unity.
  • “People I’ve never even seen that live next door to me were asking me if I needed help moving things. People were coming out of their houses and cutting each other’s trees down so that the ashes wouldn’t catch on fire with the trees.” (04:43)
  • “We have some water in the car. Everything. I mean, I'm just glad I got gas because I didn't have any gas today.” (05:10)
• Impact of First Responders
  • “There was a fireman running down the street yelling, everyone get out. Everyone get out.” (02:00)
  • Multiple mentions of fire trucks, police, and efforts to rescue even wildlife.

5. Broader Reflections and Life Lessons

• Vulnerability and Uncertainty
  • John generalizes the experience, highlighting the universal risk of disaster and need for emotional preparedness.
    • “Whose life couldn’t be changed by one telephone call?... These are the experiences that make us wise.” (07:38)
• Processing Tragedy and Spiritual Perspective
  • He contemplates the existence of suffering and the place of faith.
    • “Bad things do happen to good people. And God is at the same place...when his son was being crucified on the cross.” (08:40)
  • Stresses the importance of living in the present and managing worry.
    • “Don’t worry about tomorrow. Tomorrow has enough care of its own. There’s enough going on today, live today, process today.” (09:35)
• Value of Direct and Vicarious Experience
  • John frames such events as growth opportunities, for building wisdom and resilience. Even listeners, through vicarious experience, can learn:
    • “You can become wise and more mature, learn to manage your fears and your emotions...we’re all very vulnerable.” (07:57)
• Practical Advice
  • Encourages listeners to focus on prevention, community, and proactivity: “Prevention is so much cheaper and so much easier than cures.” (09:10)
  • Candidly reminds: “Every year there are going to be brush fires and there may be more...there are earthquakes to come...So take care of your families.” (09:20)

6. Tribute – The Unsung Heroes

• John reads a moving poem about the unsung heroes—mothers, police, firefighters—all of whom endure silent, often unrecognized, anxieties while their loved ones protect others (07:26–08:35).
  • Quote from the poem:
    “She has no status such as a wife
    While county folk sleep with no care
    she lies awake that’s my son out there....” (07:50)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• John to Brynn:
  “If you see smoke or fire, just walk across and get in the water.” (00:55)

• Brynn on PCH evacuation:
  “It was like...If you’re on PCH right now, looking in the black cloud of smoke, it looks like there’s nothing left but black.” (03:34)

• Brynn on community response:
  “People were talking next to each other in the car saying, is everything okay? You know, is there anything you need? We have some water in the car.” (04:56)

• John reflecting on fear and faith:
  “How can bad things happen to good people? And you can wonder and question. And that’s not such a terrible thing because oftentimes from questions there come insights and hopefully there will be answers.” (09:01)

• On resilience:
  “You have choices, emotional choices. You will be better for them. You will be richer, you’ll be more mature, you will be wise. Because wisdom is knowledge plus experience.” (07:57)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00 – 01:15: John discusses concern for his daughter and sets up the live call.
• 01:15 – 03:42: Brynn recounts her immediate evacuation, loss, and community response.
• 03:42 – 04:43: Ongoing evacuation, description of highway chaos, war zone imagery.
• 04:43 – 06:05: Community comes together; tales of neighborly support and first responders.
• 06:18 – 06:56: John and Brynn reflect on family, changing roles, and coping strategies.
• 07:26 – 08:35: Reading the poem honoring unsung heroes.
• 08:35 – End: John’s closing reflections on trauma, growth, hope, and prevention.

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Tone & Style

The episode balances urgency and anxiety with warmth, humor, and reassurance. John is candid, often self-questioning, and earnest. Brynn is composed, pragmatic, and community-focused despite obvious stress. The mood moves from tense and frantic toward reflective, compassionate, and ultimately hopeful—true to the show’s purpose of extracting wisdom from life’s trials.

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Key Takeaways

• Live therapy and radio merge powerfully in real crisis situations.
• Even as disasters shatter normalcy, community and compassion endure and sustain.
• Processing feelings and learning through both direct and indirect experience is crucial for personal growth.
• Resilience is built not just by surviving, but by reflecting and connecting with others during and after trauma.
• Questions, even about faith and meaning, are a valid and vital part of the healing process.
• Preparedness and prevention matter: disaster can strike unexpectedly, underscoring the value of readiness and strong communal ties.

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This episode of The Issues of Life offers a singular, profoundly human account of disaster, parenting, resilience, and communal care—a powerful lesson in both survival and empathy.

Transcript

[A]

Born to do this kind of broadcasting. Concerned about my daughter. Right. She's been in the midst of all of that, and she lives on a hill right above the beach in Malibu, going up to Pepperdine. And we've been talking to her throughout the day, and she said, I should have evacuated earlier. Now it's bumpered above her track. I can't get out. I'm sitting here. I guess I'll walk. If it gets closer to me, I'll walk away. And can't get in my car now. It's too late. And so I said, listen, if you see smoke or fire, just walk across and get in the water. And I've been calling her for quite a long time and she is no longer there. So she called on one of the lines. Right, she's on one of the lines. So we need to talk with her. But isn't it like a broadcaster? She called on the wrong line, so I told her to call back. Have I lost my perspective? My gosh. So I told her to call me back on another line so I could put her on the radio. So she's on the line. Let's see if we can have her join us. This may get even more confusing. I'm going to see if we can't put her on with you guys. Okay? Hold on a second. Bren.

[B]

Hi.

[A]

Hi. How you doing?

[B]

I'm okay. I was listening to you on the radio and it sounded like you were a little bit scared and upset, so I decided I should get off the road as soon as I can and call so you can have a good radio show.

[A]

That's not a bad idea.

[B]

You know, I was trying to get some people's attention next to me in the cars, and I asked them if they had a cellular. Like, no, no, we don't. We don't. We wish we did. But all the phones were down, all the electricity went down. We waited as long as we could, but the fire was, like, right on top of us, so we had had to leave. But

[A]

did it come behind your apartment?

[B]

Yeah, right as we drive. Well, I went across the street to some friend's house, and I drove across the street because I packed my car up.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And we were watching, and there was a fireman running down the street yelling, everyone get out. Everyone get out. So I decided to leave that.

[A]

So do you think your apartment is in danger? I mean, not in danger, but is it?

[B]

I tried not to look back, but my friends ahead of us were, like, looking back and they said it. It was burned. But I don't know, I just. I mean, I'm glad my school is okay, because.

[A]

Did you get my CDs?

[B]

No. No, I don't care about CDs.

[A]

You're right.

[B]

So anyway, it was really scary, but everyone was coming together and people were really nice and helpful and trying to water each other.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Roofs down. And we were giving people rides. And the car. My friends ahead of us, there was a professional basketball player walking by them and he got in their car.

[A]

Did you see. Did you. Were you able to get your car out? Did you drive your car out?

[B]

Yeah, I drove my car out, but Rory, My friend Rory left her car there.

[A]

And what about. Did you see your friend Hugh?

[B]

Yeah, he was okay. His house burnt down.

[A]

Did it burn down?

[B]

What was that?

[A]

Did it burn down?

[B]

Yeah, it was. I guess it went all the way down to the ocean by now.

[A]

Yeah, we saw pictures that look like your section.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. I didn't think we were going to

[A]

get out of pch because what was PCH like?

[B]

PCH wasn't moving and I thought I was going to have to run at times. So I was really scared. Right now I'm still in shock because I just pulled over at the nearest place and people were taking pictures of us driving out. It was like. If you're on PCH right now, looking in the black cloud of smoke, it looks like there's nothing left but black.

[A]

Sounds like a war zone, doesn't it, John? It sure does. Descriptions of the war zone. Yeah, it sure does. Brain, would you stay with me?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I mean, I'm ordering you as your father to stay with me on the line.

[B]

Well, I just wanted to make sure you're okay because I know I'd be worried if you were in Malibu and I was wherever.

[A]

Well, we've traded places before. We've had things like this happen, haven't we?

[B]

Yeah. I just didn't want you to worry.

[A]

Well, I'm fine. But I love you and I'm glad you're safe. And we just hope and pray for everybody else. Stay with me. Okay? We're gonna. On the other side of the commercial, we'll continue with this issue of Life with my daughter, Brynn. She's up in Santa Monica. Is that. Are you still there, Bryn?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, hold on. I'm gonna put Jack on the line.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Hello? Yeah, Bryn?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Can you hear Jack?

[B]

Hi, Jack.

[A]

Hi, Bran. How are you?

[B]

I'm okay. How are you?

[A]

I'm fine, thanks. Glad you're safe.

[B]

Yeah. I'm sorry. I'M happy, too, but I just hope everyone else is in Malibu.

[A]

Yeah. And you said people were coming together and helping each other at the last moment before you had to evacuate?

[B]

Oh, yeah. I mean, everyone. People I've never even seen that live next door to me were asking me if I needed help moving things. People were coming out of their houses and cutting each other's trees down so that the ashes wouldn't catch on fire with the trees. And people were talking next to each other in the car saying, is everything okay? You know, is there anything you need? We have some water in the car. Everything. I mean, I'm just glad I got gas because I didn't have any gas today.

[A]

Was there anybody going north on Pacifico's highway?

[B]

No, just about 300 fire trucks and police. Every time we looked, there was another fire truck going by. And I guess I heard from the radio that they couldn't get in where the fire was because it was gridlock with people coming out. So a couple of my friends said they were sitting on their ropes trying to water down when the flames were right there. And the firemen just go, get out of the way. You know, you're gonna get hurt. They were trying to save the rabbits that were running out of the bushes.

[A]

Well, did you call your mother?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I want to call you first.

[A]

Yeah, well, maybe Mom's listening to the program.

[B]

Okay, well, good.

[A]

Well, where are you going to be and where are you going and what's happening?

[B]

I'll be fine. Don't worry.

[A]

Where are you going to go?

[B]

Probably home.

[A]

That's a good idea, now that I only have one. Did you only have one home?

[B]

Good thing is, I paid rent today.

[A]

Oh, that's good. You paid rent today?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Put a cancellation on the check or something. Anyway, you're safe, and that's important.

[B]

I just hope everyone else is, too.

[A]

Isn't it interesting that we could do this live? No.

[B]

How else can you do it?

[A]

How else? You do it? You do it live. Yeah, good. That's a good point, that we could talk about this, and it just happens. Another issue of life. Right. It's interesting because, you know, it's the first time I've ever been a father, and it's the first time we've ever really had to evacuate you. Although I've had to evacuate me several times. But this is the first time I've had to worry about where you've been and trying to do the program. Bob Noonan was kind enough to come on the program because I thought I would have to leave. And I don't know what I was going to do. I tried to borrow a plane from Mike and come flying up, but I didn't know where I was going to land. And it didn't have a boat big enough to get through the waves.

[B]

Well, I was just gonna go swim out with the seals if anything happened.

[A]

Yeah, that little float out there in the water. It was just a weird feeling, a helpless feeling. And I'm watching and all of a sudden there's this picture of your roadway, your section where you live. And I went, oh, no, this is way too close.

[B]

Yeah, well, it's closer to here now.

[A]

Good. Well, okay, we'll come home and study. Why? I don't know. Maybe we don't have university, love.

[B]

Bye, Jack. Bye.

[A]

Bye, Bran. Okay, drive careful.

[B]

See you later.

[A]

Okay, Bye.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

I lost Jack, Bren. Poor Jack. I lost Jack again. Well, you know, we'll have to call. I know Jack personally, so I'll call him and apologize again. But isn't it interesting? Isn't it something that these kinds of things going on right before our very eyes and right in the life of your broadcaster. We were involved in a very personal way with the LA riots. And we got involved there because my car broke down in the midst of the riots on the very day that the riots broke out. And I was saved, literally saved, by a black fellow in the ghetto where my car broke down. And we had him on the phone later talking about that very moment. And it was, if you've seen Grand Canyon, it was one of those kinds of experiences. So I don't know whether God puts me in these places and puts me on radio to do this. Hopefully it's a benefit and encouragement to some of you. I have in front of me a poem written by Fern. I think it's Dadian D A D I N and it's entitled A Policeman Academy Poem. A Police Academy poem. But it certainly could be said of mothers, of any firefighters, certainly policemen, because I think they are the unsung heroes in our communities. And let me read this to you and you see if you don't think it touches deep where we all live. It reads, a deputy's mother. We could say a fireman's mother has a lonely life she has no status such as a wife While county folk sleep with no care she lies awake that's my son out there. I have no place at dinners and dances I do not know whom he romances at night I say my final prayer Protect him, God, my son's out There the inside jokes, the inward fear Are never dulled by passing years A Huron shootout say the district fair he's never safe My son's out there I cannot let my terror show I can never ever let him know Only to God whom I ever dare say I'm so scared that my son's out there A siren screams through the quiet night and wakes me up with a dreadful fright the piercing sound shrills through the air has something happened to my son out there? He spends his time in court all day while his work is rolled over by a young DA don't any of the day people ever care that they're safe at night because my son's out there? Don't they ever think that a whole night's work is dismissed by a casual gavels jerk? That he and his brothers are everywhere While we mothers fear for our sons out there Their cars, we might say engines are faulty, their radios are weak if he needs help, will someone hear him speak? I could cry with rage that I cannot bear to know that that man is my son out there and when the dawn finally summons the day the knot in my stomach will go away and I can smile as I brush at an errant Here My son's safely home. My sons are right here. Well, that's by Fern Dayen. D A D I N and thank you, Fern, for that poem and thank you for listening as we kind of develop this thing as it's happening. We pray for those who are most affected and for everyone who is affected. Because you can't be part of the human community without being concerned and consumed by the devastation, the loss of life, the loss of families and homes. People's lives will never be the same. Even if insurance companies are restore the homes, you cannot restore the losses, you know, from private things and memories and the community that maybe never lived together again. These are the kinds of things that leave indelible impressions. And you then have choices, emotional choices. You will be better for them. You will be richer, you'll be more mature, you will be wise. Because wisdom is knowledge plus experience. And these are those experiences, even if they're indirect. These are the experiences that make us wise. And you can become wise and more mature, learn to manage your fears and your emotions that yes, it could have happened to you just as easily. And we're all very vulnerable because who couldn't be affected? Whose life couldn't be changed by one telephone call? And these kinds of things can make us worse. They can make us be so pessimistic of life. Someone said the other day, maybe we're really living in hell and we've been told, been lied to by everybody else. Maybe this really is hell. But, you know, you can become rather hardened to all of this and wonder where God is. You know, how can bad things happen to good people? And you can wonder and question. And that's not such a terrible thing because oftentimes from questions there come insights and hopefully there will be answers. And tomorrow comes and has its own challenges. That's why the Bible said, listen, don't worry about tomorrow. Tomorrow has enough care of its own. There's enough going on today, live today, process today. Don't give the devil an opportunity by being so worried. Be concerned, okay? But each day has enough challenges and troubles of its own. So we're glad that we've gotten through this chapter in our lives, but there's so many other chapters for other people. And yes, and don't let me say this in a way that is a dampening, kind of a wet blanket on this discussion, but you know, and I know that we live in an earthquake zone and tomorrow it could be earthquakes. And it's not a question of the next brush fire, because every year there are going to be brush fires and there may be more. As we were listening to Bob Noonan talk about San Francisco as being a hotbed. Yes, there are other hotbeds and certainly there are earthquakes to come. It's not a question of will there be an earthquake. It'll be a question of how big and when. So take care of your families. Take care to prevent. You know, prevention is so much cheaper and so much easier than cures. Don't sit around and wait and think it won't happen to you. Because when we got up this morning, we didn't think it would happen to our daughter. And our daughter was not as affected as some daughters earlier going to be. She lost her apartment, perhaps. She certainly is going to lose some time at school and there will be inconveniences and there will be things that we'll have to talk through and talk out. But she didn't lose her home and she didn't lose her life and she didn't hopefully lose her perspective. Bad things do happen to good people. And God is at the same place. When all these people ask, where is God? The answer that makes sense to me is he is at the same place he was when his son was being crucified on the cross. And so how can he let these things happen? Because free will has free reign and he wouldn't have it any other way. And quite frankly, neither would I. Take good care of yourself. And we'll be taking off a little early from the broadcast today and go ahead and run the music. And we'll talk to thank Bob Noonan for standing in and listen to Sound Journeys in the next moment. He'll be carrying on, I think, a little more with all that's happening in the news. And we'll be back tomorrow, God willing. And we'll talk to you about that on the next issue of Life. My name is John Jolliffe.