← The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
Allison Holker Reveals All! Pt 1 Making Your Dreams Happen, Falling in Love with Stephen ‘tWitch’ Boss & Finding Hope after Heartbreak
01:03:04
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- [00:01]
Jamie Kern Lima
Today is a very special episode of the Jamie Kern Lima show from so youo Think youk Can Dance to Dancing with the Stars. Alison Holker is an Emmy nominated choreographer, dancer, host, actor and author. She first burst onto the scene when she competed in so youo Think youk Can Dance where she met fellow dancer Stephen Twitch Boss, who she married in 2013. She and Twitch amassed millionaires of fans across the globe with their heartwarming spirits and Inspiring Dances. In 2022, Twitch sent shockwaves through the world and through his family when he took his own life, leaving behind his wife Alison and their three kids and leaving millions of people asking, how could this have happened? Today, Alison is sharing parts of her story she's never shared before, but the intention, she says, of inspiring and helping others. Alison's also donating 100% of the proceeds from her brand new book called this My Story of Love, Loss and Embracing the Light to the Move With Kindness Foundation. Coming up in this episode, I realized.
- [01:11]
Alison Holker
For myself that God gave me this purpose and it's really an opportunity to.
- [01:17]
Jamie Kern Lima
Help people and you're holding nothing back. You go there on all the hard things in this book.
- [01:25]
Alison Holker
There was a year when I really wasn't willing to talk to people about it. And then I realized that I need to shift my perspective on this and I need to help as many people as I can. If I'm not willing to talk about this situation, I realize how many other women, how many other men are too scared to have these really, really hard talks, but if I can be brave enough to speak out, maybe I can help someone else be brave enough to speak out for themselves. I was taken advantage of. I blamed myself for years. I must have done something wrong and I felt so much shame in who I was. And if I would have just spoke out for myself, maybe I could have built myself back up and helped other young girls, too, to not let that happen. When I had my daughter, I realized that I need to build her up to like, if anything ever happened to her. Yeah, come to someone. Come to me. Come to someone you feel safe with and say this was wrong.
- [02:16]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah.
- [02:16]
Alison Holker
And that shouldn't have ever happened.
- [02:18]
Jamie Kern Lima
I've never heard you talk about this before.
- [02:22]
Alison Holker
Yeah.
- [02:22]
Jamie Kern Lima
Have you ever shared this story?
- [02:24]
Alison Holker
I've never shared the story.
- [02:25]
Jamie Kern Lima
Have you shared the full story of that with your daughter? Wesley? I have.
- [02:31]
Alison Holker
Yeah. And that was a really powerful moment for us. I do not believe for myself that I handled it the right way and I don't believe that I should have ever felt so Much shame for myself. But it was a real feeling that a lot of women feel, you know? And so I wanted to share it with her. And I also think it humanized me to my daughter a lot that something could happen to me. And at that moment, I don't feel like I stood up for myself.
- [03:01]
Jamie Kern Lima
It was at so youo Think youk Can Dance.
- [03:03]
Alison Holker
Yes.
- [03:03]
Jamie Kern Lima
That you met Steven Twitch Boss.
- [03:08]
Alison Holker
Yeah. He was this gentle giant, and anytime he spoke, you just felt like you were learning so much. It was just, like, an honor to hear him talk, and it was just such a turn on.
- [03:20]
Jamie Kern Lima
So the time you remember meeting him, it was love at first. It was immediate. So y'all get together, and then can you share the story of you two doing the deed on the scaffolding of the Glee? Oh, my God.
- [03:36]
Alison Holker
Yes.
- [03:37]
Jamie Kern Lima
The Glee show he's cast in.
- [03:38]
Alison Holker
Oh, my goodness. Okay. It's a very famous arena, and we found some stairs. We ended up on some scaffolding above everyone watching the Glee part of the show. We were literally looking at the performers from Glee, and we just started making out, and we were looking down. There's all these audience members screaming and cheering, but they couldn't see us. And there was.
- [04:06]
Jamie Kern Lima
I don't know.
- [04:06]
Alison Holker
It was kind of romantic. And we started doing the deed, and then all of a sudden, security was, like, flashing their lights like, who's up here? And we just froze. Yeah. That was probably the most wild thing I've ever done.
- [04:20]
Jamie Kern Lima
I'm just imagining the entire audience watching Glee having no idea there's also another show happening.
- [04:26]
Alison Holker
Yes.
- [04:27]
Jamie Kern Lima
Right there, right above them.
- [04:29]
Alison Holker
Oh, my gosh. It was so dangerous. We were wild kids.
- [04:34]
Jamie Kern Lima
This episode of the Jamie Kern Lima show contains material of a highly sensitive nature that may be triggering for some, including possible references to suicide, drug use, depression, and child and sexual abuse. Viewer and listener discretion advised.
- [04:51]
Alison Holker
Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life.
- [04:55]
Jamie Kern Lima
Jamie Kern Lima. Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima. Allison Holker. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.
- [05:09]
Alison Holker
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here, and you're such an inspiration to me. So I just, like, I'm really geeked to have, like, a moment to be able to get to know you and connect, and so this is truly an honor.
- [05:19]
Jamie Kern Lima
Well, I am just honored you're here. Today's the first day we're meeting, and I've read your book cover to cover every word. Intention is everything. And I would love to just open this interview up right off the top. Because you share so much about your own story, you also share so many revelations that I think are going to take a whole lot of people by surprise. Maybe people will relate to them in their own family, but you're sharing a whole lot of things. I mean, you're holding nothing back. You go there on all the hard things in this book, and I think it's going to surprise a lot of people as it pertains to stuff. A lot of people know him as Twitch as it pertains to Stephen and his story. What's your intention now for making the decision to share. To share the parts of your story and the parts of his story?
- [06:15]
Alison Holker
Well, I realized for myself that God gave me this purpose. And it's really hard to deny when someone gives you such an opportunity. And not opportunity, because it seems so grand and beautiful, but an opportunity to help people. And I felt like there was a year when I really wasn't willing to talk to people about it. There was a year where I was just trying to be there for my children, just be a good mom. And I didn't want to share our story. It was too personal. It was too. Oh, it was too on the nose for us. It was too real to really have to open up to everyone and share what had gone on. And then I realized that I need to shift my perspective on this and I need to help as many people as I can. Because if I'm not willing to talk about this situation, I realize how many other women, how many other men are too scared to have these really, really hard talks. And at the end of the day, that's what we need to be doing. That's why we are here. And it made me realize that God gave me the opportunity to be a voice, to try to help other people, to feel safe and to feel like they can reach out to someone and speak about these really, really hard topics. And it's not that I know exactly how to do it. I'm not an expert in this field, but if I can be brave enough to spe, maybe it can help someone else be brave enough to speak out.
- [07:29]
Jamie Kern Lima
For themselves, you know? We'll dive into this in a few minutes. I have so much I am so excited to ask you about everything you have done just growing up, everything you've gone through in your life. Because for every person listening right now, whether you have gone through mean girls doing stuff, whether you've gone through, like, figuring, like, thinking because of where you come from or your own family or your parents or your situation or Your financial situation. Somehow you can't make your dreams happen. Like, there's going to be so many people. They are going to connect to. So many of the things you share in your new book that we're going to dive into today. And also, I just want to say, you know, in researching for this episode, I was blown away at how many people are speaking out and sharing their stories with their own partner or their own families. Because you have been sharing your story, and they're saying, like, gosh, okay, I was much like Twitch, and I felt like I needed to be the superhero, and I didn't tell anybody when I was struggling. And, you know, you sharing this, I mean, I've just. In prepping for this, I have read countless people talking about how they're sharing what they're really going through.
- [08:42]
Alison Holker
Yeah.
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Jamie Kern Lima
And then hopefully starting their healing journey because of it.
- [08:47]
Alison Holker
Yeah. I. Unfortunately. But fortunately, that's kind of like what's giving me the wings to want to do this. Because I had so many people reaching out to me. Strangers, Complete, complete strangers. I do not know reaching out to me on Instagram or on Twitter, trying to explain to me their stories that they've been so hurt in the past from a situation or men that have specifically reached out to me, being like, I've never told anyone that I have been hurting for so long, and it's no one else's fault. It's not a wife's fault or partner's fault or the children's fault or their loved ones or their friends, but they've been hurting inside and been too scared to reach out to someone. And that through what I've experienced and my family's experience, they decided to make the choice to get help or to talk to someone about it. And it's helped them so much. And so this really is like, a testament to all those people that are starting to stand up for themselves and be brave and speak out and seek out help and. And there really are so many resources out there that I was not aware of either that I'm trying to advocate for and trying to promote other people to feel safe, to reach out to.
- [09:50]
Jamie Kern Lima
Mm. Well, I want to. I want to first dive into some of the most fascinating, powerful things about your journey. First, your journey growing up. Because I think there's going to be a lot of people that are watching us right now or listening right now, like, oh, yeah, I loved Allison on so youo Think youk Can Dance, or I love her on Dancing with the Stars. And they might just have this idea of Maybe how you grew up, but you actually, your mom had three jobs, your dad was working overseas. You know, you couldn't afford dance classes, so you took on the job as the janitor of the dance studio and in order to be able to do dance classes. And your mom, who's working three jobs, would sometimes come and help you in between her three jobs. Can you share a little bit about that part of your journey and just what gave you that determination to go? Let me figure this out.
- [10:46]
Alison Holker
Well, I remember I started dance a little bit later than most girls start dance. A lot of people start dance when they're about three or four years old. I didn't start dancing until later. It was in my early, like, tens, you know, like 9, 10 years old, I started dancing. And my father was really struggling for work at the time, so he was going overseas a lot. And so he was gone a lot of my childhood, like when I was, you know, like those really crucial years of connecting with your dad and your parents. And my dad was gone a lot. But it's because he was. It wasn't a bad thing. He wasn't trying to want to, like, run away from us. He was just trying to, like, care for us in the best way he could. Right. But he was gone, still struggling, and I was still in dance, and that was kind of like my safe place. I felt really alone with my parents both working and being gone. So dance gave me this place of friendship, and my teachers kind of became my parents in that kind of role. For me, that when my dad came home one time, I was like, we cannot afford this anymore. I was devastated. And so I went into my dance studio, owner Cheryl Dowling, with my mother, and I was like, we. We can't pay for this, but thank you for everything. I love dance. It's not you guys. I just. We have no other options here. We can't afford it. And she was like, give me a second. Let me work this out. And she said to me, she was like, would you be willing to clean the studio? And at that time. So I'd only started dancing for a couple of years. I was, I think, like 12 or 13. When she was like, would you be willing to clean the dance studio? And I was like, anything. I'll do anything, because I love it so much. Even though it'd only been a couple of years of dancing, I knew that this was my purpose for life. I knew I was supposed to do this. And so I literally gave up my childhood. And every single night I would, you know, after school, I would go to my dance classes. I'd be there till about 9.30pm and then I would clean the dance studio for an hour and a half every single night. And I would go in on the weekends and have to do a deep cleaning of everything and dusting of the studios. And I did that all the way till I graduated high school at 18 years old. And I look back at that and I do not regret any of it. It taught me work ethic, it taught me that I was doing something for the right reasons. It gave me dedication, and it also taught me that I love something so that I'm willing to give up so much as a child to be here. And then it also made me really respect my dance teacher, seeing so much in me, giving me that opportunity. Because, let's be real, I probably wasn't the best at what I was doing, but she worked with me and made it possible for me. And so I just have so much gratitude in my heart for my mother, but also my dance owner, my dance studio owner, Cheryl Dowling, for just seeing something in me and believing in me so much that she overpaid me for the job that I was doing, but she just knew I had to be there. And so she sacrificed a lot for me as well. And I'm so grateful to have had that opportunity for all of it, though, like, also for the, the, the commitment I learned from such an early age. And it just, you know, the more hours you put into what you love, that's when you're going to succeed. And it's not just the talent and the skill, it's the love that you pour into it and the amount of hours you're willing to dive into something. And so I treasure those hours at the dance studio. And it was really hard at times too, because I was a janitor and being made fun of by other dance girls, you know, other girls that maybe, you know, saw themselves as better than me or they thought it was like a, you know, silly me to have to work and, you know, clean the garbages and clean the toilets after them every single day. I would be laughed at and kind of ridiculed for that. And I had to stand my ground and know that I'm doing this for a better person, purpose for myself, and I believe in myself. And so it taught me a lot of, like, grit too.
- [14:30]
Jamie Kern Lima
Well, I love that because I think every single person listening or watching right now, including myself, can relate to this. Where we've been in a situation where we're like, have this dream, have this Goal or we're working harder. Maybe we're just in school, or we just want to belong and we're trying to do it and we're giving it our best and we have people supporting us, but maybe not everyone is. Or we've dealt with mean girls, or we've dealt with people that, you know, don't invite us to sit at the table, or don't include us at the lunch table, or don't invite us to the birthday party. You say in your book, I want to read this, you say. Once I started my janitorial duties, some of the other dancers teased and taunted me. They left handprints on the mirrors, knowing I'd have to clean them later. They left cruel notes that said things like, you're trash, knowing I'd find them while tidying up after them. There's a reason there's books written and movies made about mean girls. Teenage girls can be brutal. And the meanest ones at the studio zeroed in on me. It was rough. Mopping floors, dusting trophies, vacuuming rooms, wiping down mirrors, scrubbing toilets and cleaning the discarded food piles left by my peers while they returned to their comfortable lives was a humbling experience. As I collected and discarded other people's garbage, I sometimes did believe what those notes said, that I was also trash.
- [15:49]
Alison Holker
Yeah, it was hard. It was hard, but it built me up. It built me up so much because I had to believe in myself. Because also, once I would go home, my parents were still gone, so I was alone so much. But I never let it defeat me. I never wanted it to. I knew I could be strong on my own two feet. And I knew I belonged in there. I knew I did.
- [16:13]
Jamie Kern Lima
You know, now people would see you on the outside as having so much success and being on television and this and that. Do you ever now have those same feelings? Like you're not enough or the words you use? Trash?
- [16:27]
Alison Holker
I think that's something you always work on and have to work on. Which is why I, for years, have believed in affirmations. Oh, and every day, I start with gratitude. I say three things I'm great, like, grateful for every single day. Small things, big things, things that people wouldn't even think about. But my affirmations really help to build me up every single day. And I usually point out the things I need the help the most with. When it comes to beauty, or feeling like I'm worthy, or feeling like I deserve the love coming my way, or feeling like I'm a good mother or making the right choices in My life. Am I going down the right career path? I usually affirm to myself every single morning the things I'm struggling with the hardest. But it's a choice to actively say those affirmations and convince yourself to believe it is a real skill set, you know.
- [17:19]
Jamie Kern Lima
But I look in the mirror when you say them. Yes, you do.
- [17:22]
Alison Holker
I do.
- [17:22]
Jamie Kern Lima
Every morning, make eye contact with yourself.
- [17:24]
Alison Holker
It's important to do that. I used to just write the affirmations. I am. I have and I deserve. I used to do one page of all, you know, I am strong, I am smart, I am beautiful, I am kind. I have loving kids, I have support system. And I'd go down these whole lists, and I used to only write them down. But in order to believe it, you have to see yourself saying it to yourself. And you have to say it with a smile on your face. And you have to see it and believe it. And so now I say it when I'm getting ready in the morning. Which is why I love doing my hair and makeup every morning. Because it's really my affirmations and, like, my gratitude moments, saying and talking to myself and pumping myself up. Because you have to be your own advocate. You have to be your own hero. You have to be your own biggest supporter. Cause no one else is gonna do all that work for you. You have to do it for yourself. But it was really hard. And it was a struggle for me doing it when I was growing up. And so I find that even as an adult, I do sometimes struggle with it. And I think we should be more honest about it. There are days are so hard to look yourself in the mirror and be like, I'm amazing, you know? And I actually recently had a conversation with my friend, and she was like, I love myself. And I was like. I was kind of, like, taken back by that. And she was like, have you never told yourself you love yourself? And she's like, I know you love affirmations, but have you ever told yourself you love yourself? And I was like, no, I had never done that. So that's actually the newest thing that I've added to my affirmations in the morning is I end it with I love me. I love myself. And I know that sounds crazy, but I had not done that until about this last year because I was in a bit of a low, you know, with the.
- [19:00]
Jamie Kern Lima
I wanna ask Alison, I wanna ask everyone listening to you and me right now and watching to just, like, pause for a second and say that to themselves. Like, I guarantee you 99% of us have not said that. Just like everyone right now listening. Okay, just pause right now and just say I love myself. Even if you don't quite believe it, just say it, declare it, speak it with faith. I love myself. I'm telling you, that's gonna be the first time maybe ever for most people or first time in a long time for so many people. Thank you for that gift. Okay, keep going. Affirmations? Yeah, no, it's.
- [19:35]
Alison Holker
You know, I do still struggle as an adult, especially with the kind of grief I went through the last couple of years with me and my children. Like I. Even though I have been doing affirmations and you know, been so independent my whole life since childhood and taking care of myself with the kind of grief I went through, it broke me for a second. And I feel like I had to go back down to ground zero and rebuild that strength in me. I had to rebuild that confidence. I had to rebuild who I am sitting in this chair to this day. And it took a lot of work. And it, it took not just my self work, but it took a lot of commitment from my friends and family around me, really supporting me and lifting me up and therapy, a lot of therapy. But I'm proud of that work. And I never stopped doing those things. Even on my hardest days, I was like, I have to stick to it. And then I of course added some other tools into my repertoire that really, really helped that were a little bit more physical because I think mentally I had these affirmations I was doing and now my friend telling me, which I only started doing that about a year ago, that I love myself. And it felt crazy. The first time I said I love myself felt insane. But I even did it with like the hands. Cause I was like, I'm gonna just scream it out loud to myself.
- [20:50]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah.
- [20:51]
Alison Holker
So I've added these things not just with the spiritual and the mental aspect, but I've also added cold plunging to my life and sitting in my sauna. And it has just been such a game changer for me. And I think what I often tell people is like, how did you get so much self confidence? And I was like, it was from self dedication. I have so many things that are non negotiables that I do in my life now that I commit to. And that even those little things you commit to doing daily, they're little wins that build up. Like I did that for me, I did that for myself. And so I cold plunge in the mornings almost every morning for like five minutes at 55 degrees. It's brutal. But I know if I do the hard things, I can succeed. And then I, like, sit in my sauna three times a week, which I know I'm very, very. I'm very, very spoiled to have those things at my grasp. I understand that. But I take full advantage of having them. And they've blessed me so much in my life. And I work out, I eat healthy, I take time with friends and take time with therapy. So all those little wins keep me going and knowing that I'm doing something to really become the best version of myself.
- [22:00]
Jamie Kern Lima
You know, a lot of people too, who maybe can't, don't have access to a cold plunge are starting to do this. Really cold showers, you know, no one likes a cold shower, but it can be just like, so invigorating. And so, you know, I want to call something out because there's going to be so many people right now who maybe have told themselves a story that because this happened to me or I was raised this way or, or, you know, this thing in my childhood or all these different things, and they're waiting for someone to come and maybe rescue them. And one thing that was just so really stood out for me in your book that I found to be really inspiring, and I wanna call it out in case it inspires someone else. Today is even when you were growing up, when you're a teenager, like, you just made the decision to figure it out, like to figure out how to make things happen in your life. And one example that I thought. Cause, you know, you've hustled, you talk about grit, you've hustled to make things happen. And you didn't sit back and going to sit back in, in. In Utah and wait for someone to just discover me and hand me, you know, a dancing platform, like you were taking action to make it happen. And, you know, flying to dance competitions or to dance clinics, you know, and then flying back home to get back to school as a teenager. You share. You share an example that I literally laughed out loud reading the book. But you share this example of you were about to miss your flight, getting back, and there's this long line at the airport, which we've all been in those. This long line. And you just intuitively yell, mom. You yell mom. And all these different random women turn around and look. Of course, none of them are your mom. You're alone as a teenager. You're alone, traveling cross country. You yell mom. And all these women turn and look and you skillfully saw, okay, who are two close together kind of Front in the line. You go up and stand between the two of them. So then one thinks you're the other person's mom, the other one thinks you're the person's mom, and you make your flight.
- [24:13]
Alison Holker
I made my flight, okay.
- [24:16]
Jamie Kern Lima
I can't even tell you the number of things I had to do as a scrappy entrepreneur with no money, trying to figure out, how do I get my products in the door, how do I get someone to take a meeting with me? And it was all so unglamorous. Half of it was so humiliating and humbling and embarrassing. And when I read that, I just thought, like, you know, I wanted to share that because I think there's a lot of people out there thinking like, oh, I have this dream or I have this goal, and I'm just waiting for it to happen. It's like, no, sometimes you gotta go in a line and yell, mom. And have everyone turn around and figure out, how do I make my flight and how do I make things happen? Has that has those instincts about, you know, like, street smarts. I'm gonna call it street smarts. Has that always been in you? Do you feel like it's something you learn? Do you feel like you're born with it? What is it?
- [25:02]
Alison Holker
I honestly, I just feel like it was always in me. I really do. I think it can be learned. I think can definitely be a learned trait. But ever since I was little and since I was young, I was just like, I can do this. The thing that I know is my gift is I've never doubted myself.
- [25:19]
Jamie Kern Lima
Wow.
- [25:19]
Alison Holker
I never, like, you know, there's been moments here, there. I get a little bit shy or hesitant about it or let people get in my head a little bit. But I've always known I'm going to succeed. I can figure this out. I can do it. I can raise my kids. I can be that single mom. I can be a support system. I can have this career. I can be a career and be a single mom. I've always known I could. I could just survive and do it. And I always knew I could do it with a smile on my face. Because I think since I was young, I have always believed and I understood and I still understand that life is the gift, and I've never wanted to let life get away from me. I want to experience as much as I can, and I want to do it having fun with the people I love, and I want to experience it all. Which is also the thing that kind of harmed me the most, is I've always Wanted to have such a big life. But if you want to have that big life and you want to go after your dreams and if you want to go after your career, if you want to go out and see the whole world, well, there's going to also be grief in there to make you appreciate all the things that you're doing. And so I've always known that. I just, for whatever reason, I just don't hold back. I just have such this belief that, like, we're supposed to go out here and do anything and everything we want, but that comes with other kinds of stakes as well, and, you know, like running your own business and becoming that entrepreneur and, you know, starting to write books and starting to have this career and being a single mother and doing all these things, There's a price to also pay for having all that at your grasp, you know, but that doesn't hold me back. I still want to do it and do more, you know, but that is just something that's always lived inside me. And I will say my parents. My dad was an explorer of life. He always wanted to see and experience everything. And he always tells these wild stories that when I was a young girl, hearing all these stories, I was like, I want to live a big life like that. I want to go see and have these wild stories, experiences that almost seem fake when you hear him talk. But then I also had a foundation from my mother that was this work ethic that she had all these jobs, and she constantly pushed herself to be at every dance event that she could afford to go to to support me while hosting these jobs. And now also, she was raising four other kids while she was raising me. You know, so I saw my mom's work ethic and dedication to just life while she had nothing. She didn't have this house. My mom never. My mom's never owned a home. My mom's never had, you know, fancy cars or fancy clothes or bags. But she just. She wanted to bring as much to the table as she could to support us and made us, you know, make us feel seen. So I think I just lived with two very, very different dynamics of parents being the example to show me that I could travel the world and do all this even if I have nothing, you know, but with hard work and dedication, that's what I really learned from my mom is I could find both worlds and put them together.
- [28:10]
Jamie Kern Lima
You know, you talk about as a dancer getting all kinds of injuries, but having to sort of, like, work through the pain, handle the pain, and put on a dazzling show anyways and you talk about how that skill has translated to real life.
- [28:29]
Alison Holker
Yes, it's interesting being a dancer.
- [28:33]
Jamie Kern Lima
There's so much more coming up in this episode. You are not going to want to miss it. But first I wanted to share this with you. In life you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self worth. When you build your self worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book Worthy how to believe you are enough and transform your life for you. If you have some self doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you. In Worthy you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life changing results like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self love, unlearn the lies that lead to self doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome, achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with with zero self doubt and unshakable self worth. Get your copy of Worthy plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you@worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you'd do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you. My weekly free inspirational newsletter is packed with tips and tools to help you find out. It's called One on One With Jamie and it's delivered right to your inbox each Tuesday morning. It's a love letter from me to you, from my soul to yours, and I hope it brings you the words and messages you need at just the right moment. Plus, when you're a part of my free inspirational newsletter community, you'll be the first to get behind the scenes content, inspirational messages and be the first to learn about upcoming events and more. It's the place to be and I sure hope you'll join me there. So if you're not on the list yet, you can sign up for free at jamiekernlima.com or click the link in the show notes below. And here's to becoming unstoppable together. And now more of this incredible conversation together. You know, you talk about as a dancer getting all kinds of injuries but having to sort of like work through the pain, handle the pain and put on a dazzling show anyways. And you talk about how that skill has translated to real life.
- [31:35]
Alison Holker
Yes. It's interesting. Being a dancer, I will stand tall on this. Dancers are one of the hardest workers in the industry. We always have to know everything that's going on in the room. We always have to dance through injuries. And we're taught from infancy that you better be grateful for any job you get because your lifespan in dance is very short, if you even make it. I have danced through so many injuries. I've had cracks, cracked ribs, sprained ankles, broken, broken limbs. Like, I've had a cracked clavicle that I was still dancing through. And I just had to smile and act like everything was okay. And it does translate into social media, into my life sometimes. And I thought for a long time, if I just put on a pretty face and act like everything's okay, I can convince myself that it is okay. And I thought. I really did think that was a amazing trait that I had. And in times, it worked for me. But I had a huge realization for myself of how hurtful that can be to my own self, physically, mentally, and spiritually. When really I thought I was like, look at me. I'm a champion dancing through all this. And I am championing my way through social media, acting like every day is perfect. And I've had to sit back for myself and really be like, I wouldn't want that for my daughter. I want her to care for her body. I want her to care for her mental health and her spiritual health. And if she needs to miss school for a day because she wants to sit at home and cry, I hope she'd tell me and I could sit there and cry with her, you know? And so through all these different experiences, I always thought and I've told people that my strength is my strength, and I stood behind that for years. And there's a lot of strength for saying that I'm not okay. There's a lot of strength to that. And that's something I am just now learning in my life and trying to gain a little bit of a base behind. And it's still very, very hard for me. I think the thing I struggle with the most in my life is asking for help, let alone admitting that I might need help with something. And I have a lot of support right now of people trying to let me lean on them at the times I need it. And so I'm grateful for that. But that has been the biggest lesson the last couple years for me.
- [33:58]
Jamie Kern Lima
You know, you look at the research, and it's like, right now, 75% of women are people pleasers. You know, everyone. Almost everyone in their own way, shape, or form right now who's part of this conversation with us is also putting on, you know, the uniform of who everyone wants them to be, but they're hiding the real things that they're going through. And you look at all the data of the toll that take takes on every part of our body, as well as just our mental, emotional, spiritual health. So, you know, you feel like I'm just learning this now, and at 36, it's actually very young to be learning it now. So many women, and you look at just generations before us, have never learned that. Right. And especially there's a lot of pressure on women, but also men to kind of, like, play that role and to not share what they're really going through. And. And so I think that that is. Even though, of course, it's so helpful at times to be able to, you know, to be able to do what needs to be done, no matter what's going on behind the scenes. And I can't even tell you the number of times I had, like, a QVC show with, you know, millions of dollars on the line and something was going on in my life, and I would just be sobbing my eyes out in the green room. But I knew I had to go out, and I learned, you know, how to silo things really well. But there were times where I never actually went back to what that thing was to process it. And that's not good, because our body, you know, there's that famous book, your body keeps a score. And I just think that it's such a new thing in our culture and such a needed thing that so many people are learning how to say, I'm not okay or here's what I'm really feeling, or here's what I'm really going through. And so. So I wanted to ask you, in your book, you talk about, at the age of 17, you experienced something you say was so traumatizing that it touched every part of your life? Mm.
- [36:01]
Alison Holker
Yeah. I had experienced my first time really feeling like I'd been taken advantage of from the other gender. Someone taking advantage of my vulnerability and my joy of life and my energy of wanting to constantly learn. I had some, you know, older man really take advantage of the vulnerability that women go through, especially in the dance community, where we look up to our teachers and we just trust them. And dance can be very physical. It can be very sexual, even at young age. And that was taken advantage Of. And it really. It tore me apart for a lot of years because I felt like it was my fault. I felt like it was my fault because how could it have gotten to that place? I must have done something wrong. And I felt so much shame in who I was, and I was so embarrassed. And to this day, it's one of those things I. Man, if I would have just spoke out for myself, maybe I could have built myself back up and helped other young girls, too, to not let that happen. But I felt a lot of shame in myself, and it was really hard for me to work through that for so many years. And I'm proud of myself now to be able to, like, kind of own that, that. No, it wasn't me. I was taken advantage of, you know, But I wish it did not happen to anyone. I don't know why people do things like that, but. But I didn't, at that time, stick up for myself because I was so vulnerable. And I thought and blamed me for years. I blame myself for years. And for myself, when I had my daughter, I realized that I need to build her up to, like, if anything ever happened to her, come to someone, come to me. Come to someone you feel safe with and say, this was wrong and that shouldn't have ever happened.
- [37:56]
Jamie Kern Lima
I've never heard you talk about this before.
- [38:00]
Alison Holker
Yeah.
- [38:00]
Jamie Kern Lima
Have you ever shared this story?
- [38:02]
Alison Holker
I've never shared this story, and I questioned it for a long time with this book because there's already so many other things that I'm kind of an advocate for and a face of, and I've. I've had to deal with so many grieves and bringing something that up was. It was a really trying conversation to have with myself if I wanted to put that out there. Not because I didn't want to be honest, but just. It's a lot emotionally to put something like that out there. But then I realized that was kind of the beginning of me becoming so independent and strong and realizing that I. I won't ever let someone take anything else from me ever again.
- [38:40]
Jamie Kern Lima
Have you shared the full story of that with your daughter, Wesley?
- [38:45]
Alison Holker
I have, yeah. And that was a really powerful moment for us because she didn't know. And I realized until I was writing this book, I had never talked with her about that. And. And it was really important for me to share with her what my experience was and that I do not believe for myself that I handled it the right way. And I don't believe that I should have ever felt so much shame for myself. But it was a real feeling that a lot of women feel, you know, and so I wanted to share it with her. And I also think it humanized me to my daughter a lot that something could happen to me, and that at that moment, I don't feel like I stood up for myself. And my daughter always tells people like that. Like, you know, she looks up to me so much for how strong I've been through everything. And I think it was important for her to see that there are things I've gone through in my life that I now look back on that I'm like, I could have probably done something different. I don't regret anything.
- [39:42]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah.
- [39:42]
Alison Holker
But I could have probably moved differently if I had spoke out to someone, if I had talked to someone, if I stood my ground and saw the strength that I really am and saw that as something powerful. And so it's really empowered us as a unit together that I share those kinds of stories with her.
- [39:59]
Jamie Kern Lima
You know, there's. You look at the statistics on all different types of violations of safety or sexual abuse or physical abuse, the things that so many people go through and they never share. And there's going to be so many moms right now hearing that you shared this with your teenage daughter and how powerful it is. And I think that, you know, everyone's circumstances are different, but I think there's so many people that are still hiding it, that they went through it and they haven't told anybody, and they feel, you know, different emotions around it. And, you know, what a beautiful thing that, you know, anytime any of us can use the thing that we went through or the thing we made it through, to be able to make sure someone else doesn't go through that thing or make sure they know how to. How to navigate it better than we did when they go through it. And I think that's such a beautiful, powerful thing to do. So I bet you there's going to be a lot of people listening right now that actually have an aha moment about maybe sharing something in their life with their daughter or their son or even their partner or, you know, they don't have to do it publicly in a big platform. But sometimes just having that conversation, like you said, can just really bond you as someone as well.
- [41:20]
Alison Holker
Well, I think for me, what I've also realized as a parent is I didn't realize how much my kids were looking at me as, like, a hero, which is so beautiful. And I think there's a lot of strength to that. And they looked at me, and my daughter said to Me one time, she was like, you just are so perfect. And I. And that was when the realization I was like, but I'm not. I have so many flaws, but the flaws make me beautiful. But I realized that our kids look at us, and if we don't share some of these things that we've experienced or decisions that we've made that maybe don't come as, like, the best outcome, you know, if we don't share with them enough, we. We don't look real sometimes to them. And then they start to question, well, if I had this weird thought or I thought about doing this or I did this, like, maybe I'm not a good person. And so I've realized that with talking with my daughter and sharing a little bit more honest feelings about things I've done or things I've said or things I regret or things that have happened to me, than we've connected so much deeper now. And she feels a lot more honest and vulnerable with me in the conversations and the type of things that we talk about now. And so it really has gave us this base. You know, I don't unload onto my daughter where it feels like we need. We need to probably set some healthy boundaries, but, you know, but I give her enough of who I am that she can really feel like she can be authentically herself with me and be.
- [42:41]
Jamie Kern Lima
Safe to share this stuff with you that she experiences. Yeah.
- [42:44]
Alison Holker
Because she knows I'm not gonna judge her. And I know that it's a trusting give where she's not gonna judge who I am either.
- [42:52]
Jamie Kern Lima
You talk about superheroes. You say in the book that you've always wanted to save everyone around you. Yes. And that it was a pattern that then was woven through your relationships.
- [43:06]
Alison Holker
Yeah. I realized through therapy, I really was unpacking some of my past relationships and a lot of the experiences I've had with past relationships. And I had the biggest aha moment with my therapist, and she knew all along, Bless her heart. She already knew. But she needed me to uncover it. That I had felt so alone for so many years growing up and that I always had to advocate for myself, and I always had to stand tall by myself and take care of everything for myself that really, I just kind of wish I could have leaned on someone. So I've been a people pleaser to so many other people my whole life because really, I wanted people doing that for me. But I thought that's how I had to give love, because it was what I felt like I was missing. So I had to unpack that for a lot of years. But, you know, so now I'm learning to balance myself a little bit with not being so much of a people pleaser, trying to care for everyone else, let them sometimes care for me and take care of me sometimes, because that's really where stronger relationships are even built. Right. Is the balance and the, the ebb and flow of letting someone else kind of carry your weight sometimes, too.
- [44:16]
Jamie Kern Lima
You talk about a moment when you had your daughter Wesley, and your life took a different direction. You got a call from, so you think you can dance.
- [44:27]
Alison Holker
Yes.
- [44:27]
Jamie Kern Lima
And you actually turned down the offer initially. And your mom that said to you, before you can love your daughter Wesley, you need to first love and honor yourself. And she told you to go for your dreams. And Ed Mylett, who says. He actually says this is a very, very direct statement. And he was on the show as well. And when he shared these words, I cannot even explain to you how many DMs, emails, all the things, and most of the people just really resonated with these words and a lot of people didn't like them. But he says one of the most insidious forms of child neglect is a parent who doesn't go after their dreams. Because we're always telling our kids, you can do it, you can do anything. And he says, eventually they'll be like, okay, but why aren't you right? And will you talk about the moment that you get this incredible. I can't even imagine, you know, as a dancer, getting a call from, so you think you can dance. And what was your internal journey of going, you know what? I'm actually worthy of going after this and going for this?
- [45:33]
Alison Holker
Well, I had to unpack so much. Like, I was a single mom, like, going back to la, I was also kind of embarrassed, you know, like, I moved back to Utah, you know, I did everything I said I wasn't gonna do. I was gonna move to LA and be this big dancer. But then I had a child and moved home, you know, so I had to unpack. Like, okay, will people accept me again? Can I do it while being a mother? At that time, as a dancer, there weren't that many other examples of single mothers dancing, you know, because like I said earlier, like, you know, a lot of dancers, their lifespans are short, you know, and so I was like, can I get back out there? Will people accept me in this new kind of capacity? Is it the best decision for my daughter? But then it was when my mom said those words to me, and my mom said to Me also that it was hurting her seeing me lose so much of who I was and what I worked for, you know, and what she had also worked for. And she knew how much dance healed me and brought me so much joy. So she wanted to see me back out there. And when my mom said that to me, I was like, yeah, you're right. Everything you're saying is I cannot be an example to my daughter, to chase her dreams and go after and be everything she wants to be if I give up on my own dream, because kids learn by example. I can talk and talk and talk my face off, which I do love to talk, I do love to hear my voice, but. But I need to lead by example. And I knew that dance, I've always known my whole life that dance was my purpose. And I was supposed to bring love and joy to people, and I was supposed to encourage other young girls to become that version of themselves that they want to be. And so I was like, I've got to do this. I have to do this. And for my daughter, but also for me. You know, I think sometimes people are embarrassed to say that their dreams are also for themselves. I was for years, because I was always like, I'm only dancing for my daughter to be an example to her, which I was for a long time. But it was also for me to prove to myself that I can stand on my own and be strong and go after it. And I deserve to stand in these rooms. I deserve to be here. And I had worked really hard. And I really do attest all of my success to the fact that I believed in myself because I deserved to be there. And it also, having a child only gave me more gusto because I can't move to LA and not succeed. Now is I have to feed another mouth, you know? So it gave me more gusto to succeed even more and do more and bring her. Bring her that same love and joy that I had.
- [48:02]
Jamie Kern Lima
Well, it was at so youo Think youk Can Dance.
- [48:05]
Alison Holker
Yes.
- [48:05]
Jamie Kern Lima
That you met Stephen Twitch Boss.
- [48:09]
Alison Holker
Yeah.
- [48:11]
Jamie Kern Lima
And it wasn't love at first sight, right?
- [48:13]
Alison Holker
No, it actually was.
- [48:14]
Jamie Kern Lima
It was. Wait, the time with the fishnet shirt and the piercings.
- [48:17]
Alison Holker
Oh, well, no, no, no. That. I didn't even meeting him. I didn't even know that's who he was. That is true. Okay. The first time I ever met Steven, we were. I was actually on season two of Sleeping youg Can Dance. And he had not been on the show yet. And I met him at a party. He was like, I'm Twitch I don't even know what he said, but he was, like an efficient top. And I didn't know this till years later he told me about this. I didn't know this is happening.
- [48:40]
Jamie Kern Lima
So he remembers.
- [48:41]
Alison Holker
He remembers meeting me because he was a fan of mine when I was on the show. And he had, like, a mohawk and he had, like, nine piercing, which is totally fine to have, but that was just like. It was very different version of who I met later. He had, like, nine piercings on his face, but he was wearing, like, literally, if you imagine NSYNC doing a music video, that's what he was dressed like. Just out in Irvine, California, on, like, a Sunday afternoon. And it was like, moon pants and platform shoes. And I was just, like, apparently, like, not into it. And I was just kinda like, hi and, like, left. But that was the first time I ever, like, met him. But I didn't even know this happened. But honestly, you think you can dance? When we were All Stars, both of us, our positions on that job, there were 12 dancers that were, like, the past fan favorites brought onto the show to dance with the new contestants. And I remember where, like, I was like, oh, this man is different. This man is amazing. I was working with my partner at the time. His name was Alex Wong, and we were in a different dance studio working on our routine, and he was in a different room working with his partner. But at the end of the day, I went into his room and I was like, we would like to share, like, show you guys our routine, because I think, like, I'll get my partner's, like, wiggles out. And, like, him being so nervous to perform it for other people, I think it'd be good for him to dance it in front of other people. So, like, can we do, like, a little exchange of our routines? And he was like, that's cool. Just give us, like, a little bit longer. We need some more time. And I was like, okay. So we sat down. And his demeanor with this young woman, he was so kind and so direct, but guiding her, like, teaching, because she had never danced hip hop before, and he was a hip hop dancer, so he was acting as her teacher and influence. But he was doing it with such a gentle soul. Like, it was just the way he could command a room but never be domineering. Like, he was. He was this gentle giant. And anytime he spoke, you just felt like you were learning so much. It was just, like an honor to hear him talk, and it was just such a turn on.
- [50:51]
Jamie Kern Lima
And so the time you remember meeting him it was love at first. It was immediate.
- [50:57]
Alison Holker
I was like, oh, I like him.
- [50:59]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah. Yeah.
- [51:00]
Alison Holker
So it was just like his presence was really powerful and. But. But soft and welcoming all at the same time.
- [51:07]
Jamie Kern Lima
So y'all get together and then. Can you share the story? Can you share the story of you two doing the deed on the scaffolding of the Glish.
- [51:21]
Alison Holker
Yes.
- [51:21]
Jamie Kern Lima
The Glee show. He's cast in the only.
- [51:23]
Alison Holker
Really, the only reason I'm so willing to share this story is he actually shared this story on the Ellen Show. And I was devastated that he was willing to share this on tv. Oh, my goodness. Okay. So after so youo Think youk Can Dance, our all star season, our first season, which was season seven, man, I was on tour with so youo Think youk Can Dance. And then he was getting ready for tour with. There was a television show called Glee. He wasn't actually on the show Glee, but for their tour, there was an opening act with a dance crew called lxd, which was the League of Extraordinary Dancers, and which was actually was. It was produced by John Chu, who just came out with Wicked. He was the director of Wicked. But so lxd, which was. Steven was a part of, was on tour with Glee. And we were just in this, like, very, like, honeymoon phase of dating, where everything was really exciting. And we were both on these big tours. Mine was a national tour, his was international. And so we were just traveling to see each other and, you know, support each other at each other's shows. And he invited me to Ireland, which he was performing at the O2 Arena. Oh, my goodness. I can't believe I'm sharing this. And so anyways, the story starts with me going to see him at his show. And after he performed his opening act, we decided to just, you know, go explore the arena. It's a very famous arena, and we found some stairs. We ended up on some scaffolding above everyone watching the Glee part of the show. We were literally looking at the performers from Glee, and we just started making out. And we were looking down. There's all these audience members screaming and cheering, but they couldn't see us. And there was. I don't know, it was kind of romantic. And we started doing the deed. And then all of a sudden, security was, like, flashing their lights, like, who's up? We just froze. And then security couldn't see us. For whatever reason, I don't know, they left, and we just ran out of there. But, yeah, that was probably the most wild thing I've ever done. I don't know, I mean, the lights were going, there was music, there was energy. I can't believe we did not got. I'm thankful that we did not get caught. Cuz I definitely think that would have been a very, very bad look. And I wouldn't suggest it for anyone else, but it was just a very in the moment moment.
- [53:59]
Jamie Kern Lima
I'm just imagining the entire audience watching Glee having no idea there's also another show happening.
- [54:05]
Alison Holker
Yes.
- [54:06]
Jamie Kern Lima
Right there, right above them.
- [54:08]
Alison Holker
Oh my gosh. It was so dangerous. I don't know. I don't know how that happened, but yeah, there we go. That happened.
- [54:14]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah. Yes.
- [54:15]
Alison Holker
We were wild kids.
- [54:18]
Jamie Kern Lima
That phase of like new love.
- [54:21]
Alison Holker
Yes. Yes.
- [54:22]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah.
- [54:23]
Alison Holker
It was really fun.
- [54:24]
Jamie Kern Lima
Or for a lot of people, existing love, you know? Yeah.
- [54:26]
Alison Holker
Yeah.
- [54:27]
Jamie Kern Lima
I want to Transition now to November 17, 2022. So you and Steven were on the Jennifer Hudson show and you were both talking about having another baby and three weeks later, what you call the incomprehensible happened. This conversation with Allison Holker is so impactful. We made it into more than one part. And you are not going to want To Miss Part 2 with Allison Holker where she shares things and reveals things that she's never shared before. That's coming up in the very next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. If you got value out of today's episode, my only ask is that you please click on the follow or subscribe button for the show on your app, give it a five star rating or review, and then share this episode with everyone you believe in. Share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it, post it and share it with others online or in your community who just might need the words and the tools and the conversation in this episode today. You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode. And thank you so much for joining me today. Before you go, I want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. And it is an honor to welcome you to each episode of the Jamie Kerr and Lima show here. I hope you'll come as you are, heal where you need, blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling and stay as long as you like because you belong here. You are worthy. You are loved. You are love. And I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. If you or someone you know is struggling, please contact the Christmas Crisis lifeline by dialing 988 or text the word strength to the crisis Text line at 741-741 or go to 988lifeline.org to receive 24. 7 support from the National Sexual Assault Hotline, call 800-656-HOPE. That's 4673. To report child sexual abuse or find resources for those in need of help, contact the national center for Missing and exploited children at 1-800-843-5678. The views, thoughts and opinions expressed on the podcast are solely the guests alone and do not necessarily represent the host, the shows or any of its partners. It's an honor to have these conversations and create a space for others to share their stories with you and me together. The intention of the show is to be a force for good and a force for love in the world, and my prayer is that this episode is both for you today. Do you struggle with negative self talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful and when you learn to take control over your self talk, it's life changing and I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your Life. It's called 5 Ways to Overcome Negative Self Talk and Build Self Love and it's a free how to guide to overcome that negative self talk to build confidence and develop unshakable self love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals. Don't let self sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life, one filled with self love, resilience and unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams. You can grab your free guide to Stop Overthinking and learn to Trust yourself at jamiekernlima.com resources or click the link in the show notes below. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration. Which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox from me if you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiecarlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one on one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy and love hitting your inbox. I'm your girl. Subscribe@jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show Notes.
- [60:08]
Alison Holker
I am so excited for this book.
- [60:10]
Jamie Kern Lima
You know why?
- [60:11]
Alison Holker
Because it's going to save so many people.
- [60:16]
Jamie Kern Lima
It's gonna save were the your new beautiful book worthy.
- [60:21]
Alison Holker
Get this book.
- [60:22]
Jamie Kern Lima
This book. I'm telling you. It's a book that can change anybody's life who picks it up.
- [60:28]
Alison Holker
Anybody who's ever felt that they were.
- [60:30]
Jamie Kern Lima
Not good enough didn't measure up. Something's missing in your life.
- [60:34]
Alison Holker
I have to tell you. It's powerful.
- [60:37]
Jamie Kern Lima
It's happening.
- [60:38]
Alison Holker
It's worthy.
- [60:39]
Jamie Kern Lima
Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you. I went from struggling waitress facing non stop rejection to founder of IT Cosmetics, a billion dollar company by learning how to overcome self doubt and believe I am worthy of my hopes and dreams. And I'm sharing how you can too in my new book how to believe you are enough and transform your life. If you're ready to truly trust yourself and break through that barrier of self doubt and know that where you come from or even where you are right now doesn't determine where you're going, then worthy is for you. It's time to go from doubting you're enough to knowing you're enough. It's time to step into all of who you are and into the person you were born to be. And it's time to believe that you are worthy of it. Because in life we don't become what we want, we become what we believe we're worthy of. Join the Worthy movement today by grabbing your copy of Worthy Anywhere books are sold. Then head to worthybook.com now for free gifts including my five part course on becoming unstoppable and my 95 page worthy workbook action plan that teaches you how to implement the tools from the book into your real life. Right now. Worthy is groundbreaking. Yo Worthy.
- [62:12]
Alison Holker
You are worthy. This book is gonna change lives. This book literally will teach you how to actually feel worthy so that you can have the strength, you can have the confidence.
- [62:21]
Jamie Kern Lima
The lessons in this book and the strategies will change your life. You will never be the same again.
- [62:26]
Alison Holker
After you read this book. Jamie's book Worthy is a must read. It is going to to inspire you, empower you, give you the hope that you need and the kick in the rear end that you deserve.
- [62:39]
Jamie Kern Lima
Jamie's book Worthy is incredible. The gifts are going away, but they're all free right now on worthybook.com it's such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.