The Jamie Kern Lima Show

Episode: Four Words That Will Change Your Life + Remembering Today To Truly Live! Pt 2 with Nicole Avant
Host: Jamie Kern Lima
Guest: Nicole Avant
Date: December 9, 2025

Episode Overview

In this powerful and uplifting episode, Jamie Kern Lima is joined by Nicole Avant—award-winning producer, philanthropist, former US Ambassador to the Bahamas, and author of Think You'll Be Happy. The conversation centers on transforming pain into purpose, living with gratitude, recognizing the sacrifices of those who came before us, and the simple yet revolutionary four words: "This or something better." In an inspiring and deeply personal dialogue, Nicole shares wisdom from her remarkable family legacy, the profound impact of music on healing, and the importance of living our lives as a "thank you" to our ancestors.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Healing Power of Music

• Nicole's Emotional Connection to Music:
  Nicole explains how music has been a constant source of healing and connection, especially during difficult times—including after the tragic loss of her mother.

  "Music has actually saved my life many, many times when I've been at my lowest, different points in my life… I get very emotional when I listen to certain types of music, which is good because it lets it all out." (00:00)

• Music in Family Healing:
  Nicole recounts how playing her father's favorite artists (e.g., Duke Ellington, Frank Sinatra, Quincy Jones) helped spark joy and memories, creating opportunities for connection and vibrancy during his final days.

  "His vibration, his energy… if I turn on Frank Sinatra's greatest hits, boom. He was transported to a different time. His feet would start moving under the table." (07:36)

2. Legacy, Progress, and Living Your Thank You

• Honoring Ancestral Sacrifice:
  Nicole, channeling her father Clarence Avant, stresses the importance of recognizing progress made by previous generations and rejecting narratives that erase their sacrifices.

  "People died for you to vote. People died for you to be able to buy a home… You owe them a thank you. I try to live my thank you. I want my life to be a thank you." (00:31 & 12:14)

• Recognizing Real Progress:
  Nicole and Jamie discuss the contemporary tendency toward pessimism and victimhood, contrasted with the need for historical context and gratitude.

  "The idea that there's no progress, my dad was like, oh no, no, no, no, no. That is saying my generation didn't do anything for you, and that is a lie." (12:14)

• Practicing Daily Gratitude:
  Nicole details how a foundational attitude of gratitude has shaped her career and personal life, emphasizing that true power comes from honoring those who came before us.

3. Victory, Testimonies, and What It Really Means to Be a Warrior

• Facing Battles vs. Seeking Comfort:
  Nicole questions the cultural celebration of "warrior goddess" labels when many avoid the necessary battles that lead to growth.

  "There's a lot of women saying that, I go, and none of you will even go into battle. You can't call yourself a warrior goddess. You haven't even been in battle." (14:47)

• The Test and the Testimony:
  Drawing on family wisdom, Nicole explains that people crave the testimony but not the test, reinforcing that growth only comes through difficulty.

  "Everybody wants the testimony. They don't want the test… You get there through going through the hard things." (14:47)

4. Resilience in the Face of Tragedy

• Grieving and Choosing to Live:
  After her mother’s death, Nicole’s father insisted she continue living fully—refusing to let tragedy dictate the rest of their lives.

  "You need to not let this person who took your mom's life… take your life away and take your energy away and take your life force away." (08:33)

• Authenticity Through Storytelling:
  Nicole emphasizes the power of honesty and vulnerability, both in her book and in life, to inspire and empower others.

5. Collective Victim Mentality vs. Gratitude

• Disconnect from Sacrifice:
  The hosts unpack the social consequences of forgetting historical struggles, highlighting moments of profound revelation around this theme.

  "When you do not honor the sacrifices of other people and think that everything is just owed to you… you just wake up every day… disconnected from other people's sacrifices, this is what happens." (22:30)

• Notable Anecdotes:
  Nicole shares a moving story about her aunt who suffered violence while marching for voting rights, and the unexpected act of kindness from a bystander that became a turning point for both.

6. Tactical Tools: Prayer, Manifestation, and Living by Declaration

• Nicole’s Signature Prayer:
  She shares her daily prayer asking for divine intelligence, grace, and love—always ending with, "this or something better."

  "I ask for divine intelligence, divine grace and divine love to guide me and direct me and protect me today… and I always will end with thy will be done, this or something even better." (32:14)

• The Transformative Power of "This or Something Better":
  Nicole explains how adding these words to any intention or prayer opens up unexpected pathways and greater possibilities.

  "Sometimes we miss things, you know, if we only want it our way… but if you give it up and say this or something even better, it opens up for you." (32:14)

• Declaration as Healing:
  Nicole discusses the importance of making statements out loud—to others or oneself—to anchor growth, healing, and awareness.

  "When you declare it, it's true. You have to speak it—even if it's about yourself." (40:37)

7. Choosing Energy, Relationships, and Self-Worth

• Choosing the Right Energy:
  Nicole shares how she assessed her relationship with her now-husband, Ted Sarandos, by how he made her feel energetically, not just on paper.

  "Energetically, it had to make sense. And I tested my feelings. Every time after Ted would leave my space… didn't take me down. It was either, he was right here or we're going here." (38:12)

• Self-Worth and Manifestation:
  Both Jamie and Nicole reinforce the idea that we live at the level of our self-worth—a key theme in Jamie’s work and new book, Worthy.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "You owe them a thank you. I try to live my thank you. I want to live my thank you. I want my life to be a thank you."
  —Nicole Avant (00:31, 12:14)

• "You never give your life force to anyone. I don't care. Do not give your life force away. When you give your life force away, you die."
  —Clarence Avant (via Nicole, 09:45)

• "The idea that there's no progress, my dad was like, oh no, no, no, no. Do not accept that... that is a lie."
  —Nicole Avant (12:14)

• "Disconnected from other people's sacrifices… this is what happens."
  —Nicole Avant (22:30)

• "Live your life as a thank you."
  —Nicole Avant (several occasions; e.g., 12:14, 29:08)

• "This or something better."
  —Nicole Avant (multiple; 01:46, 32:14, 41:23)

• "Declaration helps me heal myself… when you declare it, it's true."
  —Nicole Avant (40:37)

• "If you believe you're great, great you are. And if you don't, okay. It doesn't matter if everybody believes something about you. If you don't believe, doesn't matter."
  —Nicole Avant (34:55)

• "Imagine overcoming self-doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself, and know you are enough."
  —Jamie Kern Lima (05:11)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• The Healing Power of Music: 00:00–08:27
• Legacy and Gratitude / Living Your Thank You: 08:33–12:14
• On Progress and Victim Mentality: 13:33–17:32, 21:44–29:19
• Nicole’s Daily Prayer & "This or Something Better": 32:14–36:02, 41:23–42:13
• Relationship Energy & Choosing Worth: 36:54–39:39
• The Power of Declarations & Apologies: 39:39–41:07
• Episode Reflection & Final Takeaways: 41:23–42:13

Episode Takeaways

• Honor those who came before you—Live every day as a “thank you” in action.
• Gratitude and perspective are key to moving past collective victimhood and recognizing real progress.
• Build self-worth—You live at the level of your self-belief, not your hopes and dreams.
• Use the four words: "This or something better"—in prayer, manifestation, and intention, to create openness to possibilities beyond your imagination.
• Declare your truths—Saying things out loud, both the good and the things needing correction, brings healing and awareness.

For Listeners

If you’re seeking inspiration, strategies for inner growth, and a call to live with gratitude and purpose, this conversation offers deeply practical and soul-stirring wisdom. Nicole Avant and Jamie Kern Lima make a compelling case for living a life anchored in appreciation, individuality, and courageous honesty.

For more resources from Jamie or to submit a question, visit JamieKernLima.com/Show.