How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher

Summary

The Jamie Kern Lima Show: Mastering Confident Communication with Jefferson Fisher

In the March 18, 2025 episode of The Jamie Kern Lima Show, host Jamie Kern Lima sits down with Jefferson Fisher, a renowned trial lawyer, fifth-generation attorney, and communication expert. Together, they delve into the intricacies of effective communication, offering listeners actionable insights to enhance their personal and professional interactions. This detailed summary captures the essence of their enlightening conversation, highlighting key discussions, notable quotes, and practical tools shared during the episode.

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1. Introducing Jefferson Fisher: A Journey from Law to Communication Expert

Jefferson Fisher begins by sharing his transition from a conventional law career to becoming a social media sensation focused on improving communication. As a partner in a prominent defense firm, Jefferson sought greater fulfillment and decided to start his own practice. This pivotal decision led him to explore social media as a platform to share his expertise.

Jefferson Fisher [03:32]: "It just built a wonderful, wonderful community of people that really care about communication. And I just believe that a better world begins with a better conversation."

2. The Power of Authenticity in Communication

Initially, Jefferson's videos centered around legal advice but garnered negligible attention. Realizing the disconnect, he pivoted to authentic, heartfelt communication tips, which resonated widely.

Jefferson Fisher [05:27]: "Nobody saw it because I wasn't being myself. It was a path that opened for me to say, no, I need to start sharing what's on my heart."

This shift underscores the importance of authenticity in creating meaningful connections with audiences.

3. Building a Community Through Genuine Engagement

Jefferson emphasizes the significance of authenticity in building a supportive community. By sharing real-time thoughts and experiences without overproduction, he fostered a sense of trust and relatability among his followers.

Jefferson Fisher [06:34]: "I make these videos in my car, nobody else is around. It's really my thoughts in real-time of what happened in my day, what's going on."

4. The Critical Role of Pausing in Conversations

A central theme of the episode is the transformative power of pausing during interactions. Jefferson explains how intentional pauses can enhance communication by allowing individuals to process thoughts and emotions before responding.

Jefferson Fisher [24:27]: "The pausing is the most powerful tool you can use in communication because it gives you time to choose things. It gives you time to calm your own emotions, to regulate your emotions."

Practical Application:

• Use Pauses to Reflect: Before responding, take a moment to breathe and consider your words.
• Show Engagement: A pause can signal that you are thoughtfully considering the other person's perspective.

5. Navigating Difficult Conversations: Lessons from Jefferson’s Personal Life

Jefferson shares a poignant story about leaving his family law firm, highlighting the emotional complexities of such decisions. Telling his father about leaving was particularly challenging, but it ultimately strengthened their relationship.

Jefferson Fisher [15:06]: "I was leaving the firm, I was leaving him. And that was really hard to express. But now, we get to talk every day and we get to talk about cases. It's just great. Wonderful."

This narrative illustrates how aligning actions with personal values can lead to deeper connections and mutual understanding.

6. Strategies for Effective Conflict Resolution

Jefferson outlines his approach to handling arguments, emphasizing the importance of quick apologies and clear communication of intentions to prevent prolonged disputes.

Jefferson Fisher [35:06]: "Very quick to apologize, very quick to resolve. If you want your argument to be shorter... be quick to say, that's not what I meant, or I can see how you would take it. I didn't mean it that way."

Key Takeaways:

• Apologize Promptly: A swift apology can diffuse tension and shorten conflicts.
• Clarify Intentions: Clearly stating your intentions helps prevent misunderstandings.

7. Communicative Values: Guiding Conversations with Kindness and Clarity

Jefferson discusses the importance of having conversational values that steer interactions. One of his core values is kindness, which he applies even in heated discussions.

Jefferson Fisher [43:05]: "Where there is kindness, I will use it. Doesn't matter what they did, there is room for kindness."

Additionally, he introduces the concept of being a "lighthouse" when relationships become strained, maintaining one's positive influence without forcing reconciliation.

Jefferson Fisher [43:53]: "If I can't be a bridge, be a lighthouse. If things burn down and don't work out with other people, that's okay. They'll always know where I'm at."

8. The Interplay Between Self-Worth and Communication

A significant portion of the discussion centers on how self-worth influences communication. Jefferson explains that effective communication is a reflection of one's self-esteem and internal beliefs.

Jefferson Fisher [46:25]: "Self worth matters to who you're listening to. So much of what we put in self value is a lie. Often it's doubt."

Implications:

• Positive Self-Talk: Nurturing self-worth leads to more confident and assertive communication.
• Selective Listening: Surrounding oneself with positive influences enhances self-esteem and communication quality.

9. Practical Tools for Enhancing Communication

Throughout the episode, Jefferson provides actionable strategies for improving communication:

• The Power of a Breath: Using a breath as the first response can create space and reduce impulsive reactions.

  Jefferson Fisher [29:02]: "Let your breath be the first word that you say. Even in that pause, in that breath and that silence, it might be the absence of words, it's not the absence of communication."

• Aligning Conversations with Values: Establishing conversational values makes decision-making more straightforward and ensures consistency in interactions.

  Jefferson Fisher [40:58]: "Values are intrinsic to everybody. They guide you like a North Star."

10. Conclusion: Embracing Unstoppable Communication

The episode wraps up with Jefferson and Jamie reinforcing the importance of authentic communication and self-worth. They encourage listeners to apply the shared tools to foster deeper connections and personal growth.

Jefferson Fisher [48:16]: "When you can learn how to communicate effectively, to stand up for yourself just a little bit, you have that self worth. When you can tell somebody no and it works, you feel excited about it, you feel worthy."

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Notable Quotes:

1. Jefferson Fisher [03:32]: "It just built a wonderful, wonderful community of people that really care about communication. And I just believe that a better world begins with a better conversation."

2. Jefferson Fisher [24:27]: "The pausing is the most powerful tool you can use in communication because it gives you time to choose things."

3. Jefferson Fisher [35:06]: "Very quick to apologize, very quick to resolve. If you want your argument to be shorter... be quick to say, that's not what I meant."

4. Jefferson Fisher [43:05]: "Where there is kindness, I will use it. Doesn't matter what they did, there is room for kindness."

5. Jefferson Fisher [46:25]: "Self worth matters to who you're listening to. So much of what we put in self value is a lie. Often it's doubt."

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Final Thoughts:

Jefferson Fisher's insights offer a roadmap to mastering confident communication. By embracing authenticity, leveraging the power of pausing, aligning conversations with personal values, and nurturing self-worth, listeners can transform their interactions and build stronger, more meaningful relationships. This episode serves as a valuable resource for anyone looking to enhance their communication skills and lead a more connected, purposeful life.

Transcript

[Jamie Kern Lima]

I love a great life changing episode. I am so excited for this one today. Did you know that how you communicate, how you argue, and how you handle the way others communicate and treat you can change every single part of your life? And today we have one of the top communication experts in the world who's sharing the secrets and simple tools you can apply to your life right now, today to help you improve your life at work, at home, and in your most important relationships. Jefferson Fisher is a trial lawyer, a fifth generation award winning attorney, writer and speaker. His work has gained him millions of followers all over the world through short, simple, practical social media videos teaching people how to argue less and talk more. Whether it's handling a heated conversation, dealing with a difficult personality, or standing your ground with confidence, Jefferson helps you communicate during life's everyday arguments and conversations. And his brand new book called the Next Conversation, Argue Less, Talk More is out now. Jefferson says we can change everything about your life by what you say next. And you and I are in for a treat because Jefferson has stepped, stepped away from his busy legal practice. He got on an airplane. He flew here to be with you and me today. Whether you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show Podcast family. Remember, this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person you know because it can change their life too. Before we jump into this episode, I'd be so grateful. If you take 2 seconds to click on the follow or subscribe button on the app you're listening or watching the podcast on, it'll help you because you're gonna be the very first to get the episodes and it's gonna help the show because by you following it, it's more likely to be promoted to others to discover. And if you leave a five star review, that would be even more amazing. And just thank you so much. This is our show together and it truly means so, so much to me.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Jamie Kern Lima is her name.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life. Jamie Kern Lima. Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima, Jefferson Fisher. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Thank you so much for having me, Jamie. I'm honored to be here.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

I'm so excited you're here. Wow. What has happened with you with your advice, with your videos? It has become a phenomenon.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Thank you. Very sweet. Thank you. Yeah, it's truly been a blessing and right now I'm just holding on.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm excited so much to dive into today. You know, tens of millions of people watch your videos from you in the seat of your car and with an iPhone. Can you just talk about, like, how this all happened for the person who maybe already watches you and loves you every day, which, by the way, half of the people I know do. Or maybe someone's brand new Listening to you and me and discovering who you are for the first time. Give us a little insight on how this all happened and how you now are joined by tens of millions of friends every time you put out your words.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah, it started never with the idea that this is where it would be. It's just continually been one step after one step, a door after another door. I was at a big defense firm, a big law firm. And then I, as a partner, I left because I want to start my own. And when I did that, I thought, well, I ought to do some social media. And that was about three years ago. And I started making videos talking about my law firm. I just. I was a personal injury attorney. This is what I did. And I just felt sour about it going, yeah, I'm just selling myself. And I didn't feel that great. And I just kind of had this moment of, well, what do I really want to. What do I want my kids to see if I. If I'm not here anymore? Is that really what I want to post? And so often people post things without thinking of the legacy that they're leaving. And that really hit me hard of, like, who. Who do I want my kids to see that I. I am. That I stood for? And I thought, well, what's one thing that I feel that I know that's my gift that I can share? And it was, oh, I can teach people how to communicate, you know, how to. How to handle argument, how to turn conflict into connection. And so I thought, well, no, I can't do that. I need the right camera, I need the right lighting. I need to. I need to look like a lawyer. And eventually I just got over the excuses. And I thought, well, I don't have an office because I just started my firm, but I have my truck and I have my phone. Let's go. So I made my first few videos, and then they just started to take off from there. And I just built a wonderful, wonderful community of people that really care about communication. And I just believe that a better world begins with a better conversation. I really do.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

You know, tell me if I read this right, didn't your first videos you posted, maybe these were about the law firm? They were Legal advice. But didn't the first few videos you post on Instagram, Instagram get like zero views?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Oh, nothing. They got zero. I googled why do my videos have zero views? And I even. There was one where I hired a good friend to record a video for me TikTok style. Because that was the big thing at the time. Like very fast, quick transitions.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yeah.

[Jefferson Fisher]

And I paid him to do it and I posted it. You know how many people saw it, Jamie?

[Jamie Kern Lima]

How many?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Zero. Nobody. Nobody. There are more people that watched me making a video with my kids, which I don't post my kids anymore and my family, than they did for the video that I paid for. And I thought, something's not right. It's just I'm not being myself. I'm not being authentic. And that was just what. That was a path that was open for me to say, no, you need to start sharing what's on your heart.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yeah. Does it feel different in your body when you were posting stuff about legal advice? Obviously you're a fifth generation award winning attorney with a busy practice, all the things. But did it feel different in your body when you're posting legal advice versus when you started talking about sort of adding value to other people's lives at home on how to communicate in ways that make their life better?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Absolutely. It was really rewarding. I still get the same feeling it is. I can't tell you, Jamie, how eye opening it is for me, the fact that I make these videos in my car, nobody else is around. Nobody's. It's in a parking lot, it's on the side of wherever I make them in a gas station.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

No budget.

[Jefferson Fisher]

No budget. And I think about them almost immediately before I make them. And then right after I make them, I post them. So probably not wise, but I don't batch anything. So what they're seeing is really my thoughts in real time of what happened in my day, what's going on. But the ability to help somebody in the first. When I started to get some followers that was very new to me. I originally only had like 800 followers, which by the way, were all friends from school. In law school, they didn't. That was more intimidating to post to real friends and people that you knew. You care about their opinion a whole lot more than if it's a whole bunch of strangers. And so slowly I just got really, really sweet comments of people saying, this is great, I'd love to hear about this. And what are your thoughts on that? And just when you operate in a spirit of giving a lot of good things happen.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Do you feel like when you hold that phone up and you're saying, you think about it right before, and yet the content you're putting out is resonating with tens of millions of people. And like you said, there's a whole lot of people hiring big teams, producing content. All the things that doesn't resonate with people, you're putting this phone up video after video after video. People binge watch your videos, by the way. But do you feel like you have an anointing? Do you feel like your faith or your calling is part of this? Just clear. It's a whole other level when people can. I don't want to call it channeling, but when people can connect at this level, it almost looks like they have a talent that's just part of their calling or what they're supposed to do on this earth. Do you feel that when you film a video, like, where that comes from and how it comes out of you in a way that impacts so many people?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah, Jimmy. My parents. Every night, my dad would sit on the edge of my bed, lean over and pray and say, dear God, give Jefferson wisdom and always be his friend. And that was the prayer for all of my life. And I, in my heart, never will doubt the fact that what I have in communication is a gift. And it is my honor and my blessing to share that gift. And so when I share it, I don't think of millions of followers. I think of one person. And in many ways, that is my ability to be the light in their life that they needed to just hear, how to inject some grace and kindness into their world. And that is. That is my. My gift to share. That's why it's my joy, because it's truly my. The gift. It's not something that, you know, people say, oh, you learned it in law school. It's because you're an attorney. No, no, no. You know, law school teaches how to read the law. It doesn't teach you how to read people. And so many things that have happened to me are from a spirit of discernment that you only know when you feel it, and that's the wisdom that is given.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

So you talk about your dad, and that's beautiful, by the way. Thank you for sharing that. What I love right now is because I'm thinking about, you know, I'm thinking about everyone at home who maybe, you know, has done a particular career or they're doing it, but they're feeling like, okay, I'm really good at this, or I can do this or I'm earning money for my family by doing this. And also I feel like I have something inside of me that still needs to be an offering to the world. Whether it's a book or putting your art out in the world or hopping on social media in your car and talking to an iPhone and sharing your gift of teaching other people how to communicate but getting to where you're at. Now I wanna share part of your story and your new book which is phenomenal, which I've read cover to cover.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Thank you.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

The Next Conversation Argue less, talk more you talk about you're a fifth generation attorney and at one point I think it was after law school working in a law firm that your father is working in all of us at some piece or part of us. Most of us want our parents to be happy or we want our parents to be proud of us. Right? You decided that you weren't fulfilled in this law firm and you decided to leave and you had to tell your dad. You had to tell your dad. And that's hard. And I think it was hard for him. Can you share a little bit about that story?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yes.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

And then also, and I want to jump out of my chair about this part I love then where it ended up today with you and him. There's so much more coming up in this episode. You are not going to want to miss it. But first I wanted to share this with you. In life you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self worth. When you build your self worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book Worthy how to believe you are enough and transform your life for you. If you have some self doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you. In Worthy you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life changing results. Like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, Build unshakable self love, unlearn the lies that lead to self doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self doubt and unshakable self worth. Get your copy of Worthy plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for [e-mail] or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with worthy imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you? My weekly free inspirational newsletter is packed with tips and tools to help you find out. It's called one on one with Jamie and it's delivered right to your inbox each Tuesday morning. It's a love letter from me to you, from my soul to yours, and I hope it brings you the words and messages you need at just the right moment. Plus, when you're a part of my free inspirational newsletter community, you'll be the first to get behind the scenes content, inspirational messages and be the first to learn about upcoming events and more. It's the place to be and I sure hope you'll join me there. So if you're not on the list yet, you can sign up for free at jamiekernlima.com or click the link in the show notes below. And here's to becoming unstoppable together. And now more of this incredible conversation together. You decided to that you weren't fulfilled.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

And this law firm and you decide to leave and you had to tell your dad. You had to tell your dad. And that's hard. And I think it was hard for him. Can you share a little bit about that story? And then also, and I want to jump out of my chair about this part, I love then where it ended up today with you and him. But this is for everybody at home right now who's just like, they just want to make everyone around them happy, but at the expense of them maybe not being and doing and fulfilling who they feel they're called to be. Yeah.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah, that's a good question. It was painful at the beginning. Those are some of the most emotional, difficult conversations. He's been at that firm for over 35 years. I was been there for maybe six. And I just knew in my heart of hearts, I just did not. I wasn't fulfilled. Like I said, I felt like I was running with a parachute. Like just something was always holding me back. I wouldn't be able to express how I wanted to express. I couldn't really be creative. And having the conversation with him of leaving the firm may not sound like a big deal to some people. It was a really big deal. And he, I mean, almost begged me to stay. I mean, because in some sense it was me leaving him. And so it wasn't leaving the firm, it was me leaving him. The, you know, the ability to talk about cases every day I'm walking away from that. The, the things that were Heart wrenching. And just felt like a kick in the gut that it wasn't. I was leaving the firm, I was leaving him. And that was really hard to express. And he just would ask, you know, to help me save it. Let's do something different, get more involved. And I just would be. I've done that. I've tried. This is my path. And that was really, really difficult. But where it. The way things turn out.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

How do you react when you're now on. You're doing videos on your cell phone in a truck?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yes.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

At first. Was he like. Or a car? Was he first like, huh.

[Jefferson Fisher]

No.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

How did he react to that?

[Jefferson Fisher]

He. I mean, both my parents did not really do social media at all at the time. And I didn't really do it either.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yeah.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Because at the time, Instagram was just, take a picture of your latte.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yeah.

[Jefferson Fisher]

And swipe. Put an X Pro filter on it, call it a day. Yeah. And when they first saw it, they didn't really understand it because at first I was just doing it for the law firm. He's like, oh, okay, well, you, you do that. But for a while he's didn't. It's not that he didn't want to talk with me. We have a very close relationship. Same with my mom. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful people. It was that. It was just a sore topic for a while. And when the law firm started doing well and things were starting to roll and I'll just never forget.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Because you started your own.

[Jefferson Fisher]

I started my own law firm.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yeah.

[Jefferson Fisher]

And all I had, I went from having a corner office, two paralegals, an assistant, a whole team that just by myself at a coffee shop with my laptop next to somebody else who was in college and I just served coffee shops or borrowed friends back offices. And when I got my own office and I was starting to do well, and he called me and he said, well, I got a question for you. I said, what's that, dad? He said, you still got room for the old man. And I said, what? He said, yeah, you can say no if you want, but I'd love to practice, son. I don't know how long I'm going to practice, but for however long I got, I want to do it with you. And I mean, I just boo hooed, of course.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

It makes me want to cry. I haven't met him yet.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah, you love him. And I just. Yeah. I couldn't have been any better. Meant the world to me. And we get to talk every day and we get to talk about cases and it's just. It's great. It's wonderful. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yeah.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

It's amazing. So amazing. I think so many of us are scared to do that because we don't want to let our parents down or we don't want all of that. And this is, like, so beautiful, you know? And then he comes back around and.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Joins you, and he's never been happier. I mean, he's just. He's so happy to practice law. It's just awesome. What you thought wasn't going to work out. When something turns around and shines even brighter, you can't put that into words.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, you have so many tips, tools, tactical takeaways that people can apply to every part of their life. And I love when you talk about things that, you know, as a lawyer, like, how do you know when someone is lying and what do you do when they're lying? And how do you respond to respond. And, you know, how do you handle arguments? How do you handle narcissists? How do you handle. I mean, we're going to dive so deep. I'm so excited about all this. But I want to ask you, you know, with what's happening with the offering you're putting out in the world of teaching people how to communicate, I'm curious for you, Jefferson, like, what are some of the traits that you admire most in people who you feel are the best communicators in the world?

[Jefferson Fisher]

The number one would be warmth and people that you just. You don't even have to talk to them. You can sit in a room and just feel it. And maybe it's their energy, maybe the vibe, maybe it's their spirit. Just whatever it is, the frequency that they're putting out into the world calms you. And I find that to be. It makes you attracted to them because you like that warmth and that comfort that when you talk to them, you feel just a little bit calmer. And so people who communicate very well are not only good at being clear and direct and assertive, but they're also emotionally intelligent enough to know when to slow down because things are so busy when you ramp up. But they know that good communication happens in the. In the smallest of words, the shortest of sentences.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

When someone allows their warmth to just be. Do you feel like it's easier to listen to them and be around them? Because I think a lot of people, especially women, feel like, oh, I've got it. You know, if I'm. If I show my warmth, I'm weak and I need to, you know, all the things and. And I just think that's kind of powerful and insightful. What you just shared is that when you think of the best communicators, that there's a warmth.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah. Well, I think you'd agree. You never want to hide your light. And I mean, there's so many opportunities that we have to do that, and it's leaning into it. If people feel like, well, I'm going to be weak if I'm perceived this way. Just if you go by how you listen to music, things that are very fast affect you. Makes your mind race. When somebody's talking really, really quickly and you can't even hardly understand what they're saying, and they're getting ramp up and ramp up, that kind of gets you and your anxiety up. But people who slow down, they show more control. It's not the opposite. They show more control, more confidence. When you're adding distance to your communication, you are showing them that you are comfortable exactly where you are. And that also shines onto them to show that and where you are is okay, too.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

One thing that you seem so masterful at that I feel like I need to work on more, is this idea of pausing and of giving space. And this is going to be a big thing for everyone listening. Because when we dive into all the different topics that are going to affect our lives in so many different ways, when we start applying the tools that you share, there's this consistent theme of pause and of space. And I'll never forget the first time I ever gave even a keynote speech. Right. It was like a room of. He was like 10,000 people. And all this stuff was. It was for Brendon Burchard event, actually. And it was. It was the first time outside of it, cosmetics. And it was a long story, but he's like, I have an opening. And I'm like, I'm in. And it was this hour spot, and it was the most phenomenal hour. But every time people cheered or even stood up and cheered or any of the things, because it was really fun. And I was just, like pouring into them. I didn't know how to pause. The second they started clapping, I didn't know. And I just kept talking. And I remember afterwards, he came up to me and he says, first of all, he said a million great things, which I'm so grateful for. And then he's like, you need to learn how to pause and let the audience have their moment. Like, they're excited. They're cheering for you. They're into it. They're so excited that you overcame this huge obstacle. And I was like, huh? I didn't know how to let the pause happen. And what I love is you guys. You give so many examples in your book of ways. The pause is so powerful, but just really high level. This is for everyone listening. I want you to think right now as you're hearing me and Jefferson talk about this, when you're talking with someone, do you ever just pause and like, let there be space and maybe you're looking at them in the eye, or do you start to feel uncomfortable and want to fill the space with words? Can you talk about the power, the power of the pause and how right now everyone at home like different ways you can use just pausing and your communication and how it actually literally helps change your life?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yeah.

[Jefferson Fisher]

The pausing is the most powerful tool you can use in communication because it gives you time to choose things. It gives you time to choose, is this worth my words? Is this worth my attention? It also gives you a chance to calm your own emotions, to regulate your emotions. It gives you time to think. And when you're able to pause in conversation, it allows you to show control. If you were to ask me, Jamie, if you said, jefferson, how was your day? And I immediately said, good. I mean, my day was fine. It was good. It was good. That tells you one thing. If you ask me again, Jefferson, how was your day? And I said, it was good. It was good. Very different connotation. What you're telling in the first one is, I didn't really listen to your question. The second pause is kind of clarifying of I listened to you. When somebody even gives you one second, two seconds of a pause after a question, it tells you that they're thinking about it. And it's allowing you to show that you're actually acknowledging, taking it in before. Before you just spit out a response right away. Because we're such in a world of immediacy, of texting back right away, saying that having that clap back as soon as you get it out and where the real power in communication is, is slowing things down. It's the pause because it allows the other people, like, just like when you're speaking to people and maybe they clap or they cheer, it's allowing them to contribute to the conversation.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

I just had a big aha moment. Like, a big aha moment. Because at our core, we all just want to be seen and understood and also feel connection and belonging. And so many people feel so lonely right now. And often, you know, social media can be Great in so many ways, but we're lonelier than ever. And one tip you just gave, I think this is so big, and I want to say it in the way where it really hit me is that example you gave. Because we all have this happen every day, right? How are you? You know, we go and grab a coffee, and, you know, we might ask the person ringing us up, how are you? Or they might ask us, how are you? And we just default, oh, I'm great, thanks. How are you? You know, whatever. Boom. Boom.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

And we don't even know what we're saying. It's just like, autopilot. And. And yet we're all lonely, and we all want more connection. And we're like, why is my husband and I sitting here scrolling our phone? And I don't even know how he is? I told him how I was, but I don't think he cared. Like, whatever our scenario is, or moms at school drop off or whatever it might be, that example you just gave is so powerful and it's so relatable, because when someone says, how are you? And you're like, oh, I'm good, thanks. There's pretty much no connection happening, right? And when someone says, how are you? And you just pause and you're like. You think about it, and then you say your answer. Maybe it's like, I'm good, or whatever it is, that pause instantly tells that other person, I see you. You matter to me. I'm giving you my energy and consideration because I care to connect with you over the question you asked me.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah, you got it.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Holy moly. That is like, instant hack to connection with humans. And we're all. So many of us are just feeling like we're missing that in our lives more and more. I have heard you use the pause in so many different ways, and this is the first time I'm having this big aha over them. Because right now, every person listening, every person watching us right now today, they can watch it walk into a coffee shop. They can look at the person sitting next to them in the room right now. Right? They can. Whatever. Next time they're interacting with people and someone asks them this or they ask someone else that, add this pause in it.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yes.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Because then it almost catches someone off guard, too, and they realize you're connecting with them.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Right.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

You're connecting with them.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yes. When you're able to ask that question.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

I'm gonna do this with my husband tonight.

[Jefferson Fisher]

You should do it.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

I'm doing it tonight. I'm doing it tonight. And I'm gonna do it with my kids, actually. I'm going to do it with my kids, too.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Well, it's. So what we fall into is instead of living in it, we just. We're just pressing the buttons.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yes.

[Jefferson Fisher]

You know, Barista asks, how's your day? I was good. I'm fine. How are you? I'm good. I'm fine. We're just pressing buttons.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yes.

[Jefferson Fisher]

We're not really living in it. Let me tell you the one trick to making sure that it does work with your kids and with your husband.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

We want the trick. We want the trick.

[Jefferson Fisher]

This is what I live by, and I teach this to every one of my clients. And it is this. Let your breath be the first word that you say. So where your first word would be of going, no, I'm good. I'm good. You put a breath in its place. And so when you have the mindset of a breath being the word, I mean, it's because you're saying something. Even in that pause, in that breath and that silence, it might be the absence of words, it's not the absence of communication. So if you ask me how my day was and I go, I conveyed something right there, that's a sigh. I'm sending the message to you without words. It was heavy. It was a load. It was a lot. I mean, and when you have that pause, it's the invitation to connect.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Hmm. So good. Yeah, so good. Oh, my gosh. Okay. I'm already excited for the way everyone is going to share how this impacts their life.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yes.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Like, the DMs are going to come in, comments, the messages, and we're just getting started. But that one tool, that one tool I'm just thinking about and the ripple effect of that.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Because as a society, we're really close to bankrupt when it comes to, like, true just connection.

[Jefferson Fisher]

It really is. And the thing with communication of what it makes it so important on top of just the pause and the ability to take a moment and express how you really feel, Is that what you say for the vast majority of your life is who you are? That's how people will experience you. That's how people will experience Jamie. That's how people will experience Jefferson. It's not by really what you do, though, they might see that act of kindness. It's what you say when you say, I like that person. You just met them, you say, I like that person. They were nice. What you really mean is they said nice things. Somebody's rude and you don't like them. That person's rude just means that what you heard is you didn't like. It's kind of rude to you. So for the vast majority it is your words is what describes who you are to those people. That's what's going to describe and evaluate your legacy. That's the ripple effect. Hmm.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

With your so you being a fifth generation attorney, your wife Sierra is an attorney.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yes.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

And so I would love for all those people at home who are either in partnerships or friendships where arguing happens. Jefferson Fisher, you and your wife being attorneys, being phenomenal communicators. Right. Having sometimes your job depending on it. And then you of course becoming now one of the most well known communicators in the world. Tens of millions of people going to you for this. How do you and your wife argue and like let us in on all the secrets that we all need to be doing differently?

[Jefferson Fisher]

You ready for the tea?

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yes.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Okay.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

There's so much more coming up in this episode. You are not gonna wanna miss it. But first I wanted to share this with you. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self worth. When you build your self worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy how to believe you are enough and transform your life for you. If you have some self doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you. In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life changing results. Like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self love, unlearn the lies that lead to self doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self doubt and unshakable self worth. Get your copy of Worthy plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for [e-mail] or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy. Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you? My weekly free inspirational newsletter is packed with tips and tools to help you find out. It's called One on One with Jamie and it's delivered right to your inbox each Tuesday morning. It's a love letter from me to you, from my soul to yours And I hope it brings you the words and messages you need at just the right moment. Plus, when you're a part of my free inspirational newsletter community, you'll be the first to get behind the scenes content, inspirational messages and be the first to learn about upcoming events and more. It's the place to be and I sure hope you'll join me there. So if you're not on the list yet, you can sign up for free at jamiekernlima.com or click the link in the show notes below. And here's to becoming unstoppable together. And now more of this incredible conversation together. How do you and your wife argue?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

And like, let us in on all the secrets that we all need to be doing differently.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Are you ready for the tea?

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yes.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Okay. My wife. No, I'm kidding. She's a fantastic communicator. Law really teaches you to be concise. And what I like to compare it is I'm a lot slower, she operates a lot faster. But often we have to communicate the same level. When you have two kids and you're raising a family and everything, it's a lot. Our arguments are very short. And the reason because of that is we operate on this. Very quick to apologize, very quick to resolve. If you want your argument to be shorter with your spouse, with your partner, with your friend, be quick to apologize. So often it is the continual circular arguments that just tend to roll on forever because you can't really sleep when you're having that bad argument with your spouse or a significant other. It keeps you up at night, it begins to live and seep. And now you're having to put on an act for your kids when really you're irritated at each other and you want to lash out. Being quick to apologize and quick to resolve. That makes our arguments very short because we're fast to say, that's not what I meant, or, you know, I can see how that's how you would take it. I didn't mean it that way. I didn't intend it that way. Whenever you can push out your intentions rather than pushing how they should react, that's a big difference. What I mean by that is here I am taking the accountability of I could have done better. Communicating that versus why would you behave that way? Why would you even behave that way when I said this, who reacts like that? So when you, when you take the responsibility for being understood radical, things can change.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Even if you think they're completely at fault, they don't get it. They should do different. They should do Better. But that's gonna go to. For an argument forever. Because I've tried that. Yeah. So you're saying that you're not saying they're right by apologizing or by, you know, you're saying, oh, wait, maybe I could have communicated that differently. You're doing your part to try to make the argument shorter.

[Jefferson Fisher]

There are times when. And again, I'm not pointing to where people are in toxic relationships. People with narcissistic tendencies. Yes. That can be circular and terrible. I'm not saying you should just apologize to apologize.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yeah.

[Jefferson Fisher]

What I'm communicating is whenever there is a friction in the conversation, we make sure that it doesn't get heated. In other words, it doesn't combust and turn into flame. It is trying to draw it out by unraveling the knot and going, okay, this is how I understood it. What did you hear? Okay, that's not what I intended at all. I'm sorry. What I meant to say was X, Y, and Z. So the quicker you can get to that, the better.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

That's so good. Okay, so this is what I intended. What did you hear?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yes.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

And then. Oh, okay. Well, that's not what I intended. Here's this. You know, I want to just share something that I think is so, so profound, because every time I was growing up when I knew my parents were arguing or this or that, you know, they didn't argue much. My parents actually just didn't talk about hard things. When they did argue, and I knew. I knew that they were. I would go in and I would, you know, say, is everything okay? And, like, absolutely. And, you know, they cover it up. And we think we want to protect our kids and hide it, but if the argument's getting drug out and we're actually hiding it, you know, I read something where children are learning to not trust their own intuition because they're saying, is everything okay? We're like, oh, it's fine. It's fine. They know it's not.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah, they can sense it.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

They sense it. And we're saying, don't trust your senses or your senses are off or something like that. And so the idea of, you know, the stronger you become at communicating and learning how to respond in an argument with someone you love in a way that diffuses. It just has so many ripple effects beyond just that particular thing. So I love that.

[Jefferson Fisher]

I want to make sure I tell you right along with that. This happened sometime last year with my son, who's now 7. And I got home, long day, suit and tie, and I'M starting to make their lunches for tomorrow. Son asked me, you know how your day was, dad? And I said, oh, it's fine, buddy. It was good. It was a good day. How was your day? And I'm continuing to make the sandwich, and he doesn't bring it up again. We go on about dinner and bedtime, bath, everything. I am sitting on his bed for prayers and songs. And first thing he asked was, why'd you tell me it was a good day when it wasn't? I kid you not, that's exactly what he said. I said, what did you mean? He said, you didn't say it like it was good. You said it like you were sad. And I mean, it was such a just slap in the face of. I'm never going to say it was just good again. He needs to hear that from me. Even when the day's been bad, he needs to hear when it's been tough. I mean, that's. And it was just this moment of how dare I try to just gloss over the fact that he needs to know that I have hard days, too. And that hit me just like a ton of bricks. So, yeah, no hiding from him. Yeah.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Wow. You know, you say, I think this is something really, really powerful because a lot of people don't. They don't want to get in an argument. A lot of people don't even want to have a conversation, especially if there's, like, anything hard or difficult or challenging or, you know, any of it. And you say that when you align your conversations or your arguments with your personal values, that you're sort of aligned then ahead of time with your goals. Before you go into it, can you explain to us what that means and how we all do it right now, today in our lives?

[Jefferson Fisher]

So values are intrinsic to everybody. What I value is going to be different than what you value. They might be similar, but we all take it different ways based on how we've been raised. What values do is guide you like a North Star. When you don't have any kind of compass. What I do, what I encourage, is that people have conversational values. Because when you do, decisions become easier. Take it for example, with a company, your major Fortune 500 companies, like your company, there are ones that have values. And when you have a value, decisions become easier because you don't have to question it. You follow the value. If my value is I only work with clients who align with me comes easy. I don't have to make that decision. I know that that's who I'm going To work with same thing in your conversation. So one of my values that I hold dearly is where there is kindness, I will use it. Where there is room for kindness, I will use it. Doesn't matter what they did, doesn't matter what they caused. The question is, is there room for kindness? And that comes from my mama. I'd complain about something that somewhat happened at school, Expecting her to, you know, buy into the tea, let's. Let's get some, you know, how dare they kind of thing. And what my mom would say is, well, were you kind? I can hear it in my head. She'd say, well, were you kind? And I would always go, I mean, I. Probably not, mom. And she'd go, well, I think you should be kind. I mean, that was just her thing. And that became my. Such a value of me, of when I'm talking on the phone to an opposing attorney and he says something snide, I know that he's trying to jab me, is there room for kindness? I'll use it. And I'll say something like, well, you know what? I know you really care for your clients. I know you really care for your clients, Matt. And that really shows any way that I can just share a little bit of kindness? I don't have to worry about the next zinger. I don't have to worry about what can I say to impress them? Is there room for kindness? And that's what I'll do. But I have others.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

And you feel like that works to your advantage every time? A snide attorney on the call. Yes, because they don't mistake it for weakness.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Because how they interpret it is going to be how they interpret it. I'm the one that has to be left with it. I'm the one that has to walk away and go home to my family. And if I'm carrying that conversation that I have with that opposing attorney home, why, they don't deserve that. That's not what that conversation was for. That's not why they said it. And so having these values, Another that I love to use is, if I can't be a bridge, be a lighthouse. If things burn down and don't work out with other people, that's okay. They'll always tell know where I'm at. They always know where to find me. So when you have these ideas in your head of what my value is.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Explain that a little bit more. If I can't be a bridge, be a lighthouse. Be a lighthouse.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yeah. So let's say you and I been friends and we have a big fallout, despite what I say, and I'm really trying to mend this relationship, and it's just not happening. They've. You've written me off. It's not working out. That bridge is really burned. Well, that's okay. I'm still going to be a lighthouse. Maybe I'll see you in five years. Maybe I'll see you in 15 years when life has happened to both of us. But I'm not going to change the light that I'm going to put out into the world just because of our.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Bridge was burned or the light. You wish that as a person?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And so when you have these values and every one of us has a value, and that's how you handle your conversations, because it allows you to. I don't have to worry about decisions. The values make the decisions for me.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

That's so good. I love that too, because I've had to do this. I wish I've never had to do this. I've had to do this even recently, where a friend just completely wasn't the friend I thought they were. And I think parts of our humanness want to, you know, tell them all the reasons they're wrong or this or that or all the things. And it's like, I think when you can just be a lighthouse and go, okay, so it's a different friendship than I thought. And I'm just gonna pray for them and love on them. And I feel like what happens then is you meet the vibration also of attracting great friends.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Yes.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

You know, when you. When you.

[Jefferson Fisher]

And that's your gift.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jefferson Fisher]

I mean, that's where it comes back. Whenever you send that zinger, that clap back, that sense of, oof, man, I just put together the perfect paragraph that's going to punch them in the mouth.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yeah.

[Jefferson Fisher]

It's got. It always has a bad aftertaste. Yeah, always.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Yeah.

[Jefferson Fisher]

It may not be right within that moment. It. But it'll probably be the next morning and it'll definitely be a week from now. And I mean, it's. The longer it goes, the harder it is to come back together.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

I even think about that when I see comments online. Someone just like, you know, it can feel like a temporary relief or something when you just, you know, get that hateful comment out or attack someone or this. But then you're meeting the vibration of that in your life. So it just comes all around you in different areas. So that's so beautiful. Be the lighthouse. Even if you're not. Even if you're not the bridge.

[Jefferson Fisher]

That's right.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Even if you're not the bridge. How, what role, what role does self worth play in communication with others and with ourself?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Self worth matters of who you're listening to. It's the question of who are you listening to? When it's say I have the confidence or I can be assertive or I shouldn't have said that. It is the line of who, who are you listening to in your life that's driving your, your own value. So much of what we put in self value is a lie. Often it's doubt. We sow a lot of doubt into ourselves and that can grow over time to where? When you get that one comment from a troll, all of a sudden you feel like they're telling you the truth when really all they're doing is speaking to your doubts. And self worth is something that you can grow into and I don't want to say lean into. It's something you can step into because when you can learn how to communicate effectively, to stand up for yourself just a little bit, you have that self worth. When you can tell somebody no and it works, you feel excited about it, you feel worthy. Hey, you feel like, hey, I have that within myself of good, good job. Okay, now you feel a little bit better. And then you continue to grow in that step by step by step. But so forth is very much tied to your communication because again, how you communicate is who you are and how you feel about yourself and how you.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Communicate with yourself, right?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Oh yeah, yes, no doubt. And because it's remember, who are you listening to? Am I listening to my own doubts? Be people who are negative say negative things and people who are positive say positive things. It's as simple as that. When you start to doubt yourself, it's because you're listening to your doubts. You're not listening to the positivity when you feel anxious. You're listening to the anxiety inducing thoughts of what ifs, of what ifs rather than the comfort in knowing I knows, I knows, I knows.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

These are such powerful tools that we can apply to our life right now.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Right?

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Like, and what I love is they're free. They're free and they're not always easy, but we can get in the habit of them and we can apply them right now. So thank you for these tools. Remember, this episode is not just for you and me. Please share, share this with every single person you know because it can change their life too. Make sure to pick up Jefferson's new book, the Next Conversation. Argue less, talk more and check out his brand new Jefferson Fisher School of Communication. We'll link it in the show notes. And if you love today's episode too well, my only ask is you. Please click on the Follow or Subscribe button for the show on the app that you're listening or watching it on. Then give it a five star review and then share this episode with everyone you believe in. Share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it, post it and share it with others online or in your community who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this episode today. You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode. Just thank you so much for joining me and before you go, I wanted to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams and all the unconditional love in the world. It's an honor to welcome you to each episode of the Jamie Carl Lima show. And here I hope you'll come as you are and heal where you need, blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling and stay as long as you like because you belong here. You are worthy, you are loved, you are love and I love you and I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. Do you struggle with negative self talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful and when you learn to take control over your self talk, it's life changing and I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your Life. It's called 5 Ways to Overcome Negative Self Talk and Build self Love. And it's a free how to guide to overcome that negative self talk to build confidence and develop unshakable self love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals. Don't let self sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life, one filled with self love, resilience and unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams. You can grab your free guide to Stop Overthinking and learn to Trust yourself at jamiekernlima.com resources or click the link in the show notes below. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration. Which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiecarnlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one on one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy and love hitting your inbox. I'm your girl. [e-mail] or in the link in the show notes.

[Jefferson Fisher]

I am so excited for this book.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

You know why?

[Jefferson Fisher]

Because it's going to save so much meaning. It's gonna stay cool Were the your new beautiful book worthy.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Get this book. This book. I'm telling you. It's a book that can change anybody's.

[Jefferson Fisher]

Life who picks it up. Anybody who's ever felt that they were not good enough didn't measure up. Something's missing in your life. I have to tell you. It's powerful.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

It's happening.

[Jefferson Fisher]

It's worth it.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you. I went from struggling waitress facing non stop rejection to founder of IT Cosmetics, a billion dollar company by learning how to overcome self doubt and believe I am worthy of my hopes and dreams. And I'm sharing how you can too in my new book how to believe you are enough and transform your life. If you're ready to truly trust yourself and break through that barrier of self doubt and know that where you come from or even where you are right now doesn't determine where you're going, then Worthy is for you. It's time to go from doubting you're enough to knowing you're enough. It's time to step into all of who you are and into the person you were born to to be. And it's time to believe that you are worthy of it. Because in life we don't become what we want, we become what we believe we're worthy of. Join the Worthy movement today by grabbing your copy of Worthy Anywhere books are sold. Then head to worthybook.com now for free gifts including my five part course on becoming unsafe, unstoppable and my 95 page worthy workbook action plan that teaches you how to implement the tools from the book into your real life right now. Worthy is groundbreaking. Yo Worthy. You are worthy.

[Jefferson Fisher]

This book is going to change lives.

[Jamie Kern Lima]

This book literally will teach you how to actually feel worthy so that you can have the strength, you can have the confidence. The lessons in this book and the strategies will will change your life. You will never be the same again after you read this book. Jamie's book Worthy is a must read. It is going to inspire you, empower you, give you the hope that you need and the kick in the rear end that you deserve. Jamie's book Worthy is incredible. The gifts are going away, but they're all free right now on worthybook.com it's such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional.