Podcast Summary: The Jamie Kern Lima Show – Jen Hatmaker Pt 2: How to Live Free, Recognize Your Power & Feel Fully Alive, Awake & In Love with Your Life, Finally!
Episode Date: September 16, 2025

Overview

In this deeply personal and empowering episode, Jamie Kern Lima welcomes back author and speaker Jen Hatmaker for Part 2 of their candid conversation on self-trust, liberation, and rebuilding life after loss and betrayal. Jen shares actionable wisdom drawn from her memoir Awake, inviting listeners into themes of self-worth, reclaiming power, healing from heartbreak, inner knowing, parenting through crisis, and honoring both faith and authenticity. Both Jamie and Jen break down societal expectations, gender norms, faith struggles, and how to reclaim joy even after great pain—offering powerful encouragement for anyone longing to feel fully alive, awake, and in love with their life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reclaiming Power & Self-Trust (00:00–04:34)

• Jen’s journey to self-reliance: After her life was “leveled to the ground” by divorce, Hatmaker shares she hadn’t known how much money she made, how to file taxes, or even basic household tasks, as she’d outsourced all to her ex-husband. Learning these skills became a profound point of pride and a model for her children.

  • "Nothing is beyond our capacity. I'm never going to be afraid again because I can trust myself. I'm never handing that much power to somebody else..." (00:00)

• Liberation from outsourcing life: Jen emphasizes that women—at any age—can learn new skills, take back control, and build an independent, trustworthy foundation.

  • “We can learn it. We can figure it out. We can do it. We are trustworthy.” (08:37)

2. Parenting Through Trauma & Modeling Resilience (05:31–12:20)

• Being present for her kids: Jen’s priority during the breakdown of her family was to be fully present. She describes “lockstep” loyalty with her kids, navigating joy and pain together.

  • “I was 100% absolutely with them. With them. ...We were in lockstep, me and those kids.” (05:45–08:27)

• Modeling growth: Her children witnessed her “messy” evolution in real time, learning finances and life skills alongside her.

  • “We learned how to handle money together... it was like we were all students, me and the kids... That is one of my proudest parts of this story.” (08:37)

3. Identity, Integrity & Belonging (14:33–20:54)

• Authenticity with her children and public: Jen aspires to be the same person “behind the curtain as in front,” hoping her children remember her consistency and unwavering support.

  • “My mom is the same person behind the curtain as in front of it. ...I hope that they would point to integrity and say, we believed. We got to believe who she was.” (12:20)

• Reclaiming magic and hope: Jen reassures listeners that setbacks and heartbreak do not mark the end of possibility or magic in life. Rebuilding is available to everyone.

  • “Magic has not run out... We still get to write the rest of the story. It's not dependent on someone else.” (14:58)
  • “I am in charge of me. ...You are absolutely forfeiting the joy of your own story [if you don’t].” (14:58–20:27)

4. Betrayal, Healing, and Loving Again (21:27–29:20)

• The process of healing: Jen describes the journey after betrayal as “slow, excruciating, boring magic” requiring honesty and thousands of small, seemingly insignificant choices.

  • “Do the boring, hard, excruciating work of recovery, of examination, of truth telling, of vulnerability. ...It will get you there.” (26:15)

• The power of self-knowing: Both discuss the importance of slowing down, listening to bodily wisdom, and validating their “knowing”—even when the mind resists. Jen insists that ending the “war with our own bodies” can be life-changing.

  • “My body is the singular source of the highest wisdom I can access.” (29:20)
  • “Our bodies know. Ask anybody. You know what's right, you know what's true, you know what's wrong. ...What a safety to finally end the war.” (29:20–32:55)

5. Navigating Criticism, Cancel Culture, and Living with Integrity (33:03–43:34)

• Handling public scrutiny: Jen shares how she’s learned to “right-size” social media feedback and ground her worth internally rather than in praise or criticism from others.

  • “We're not as good as the Internet sometimes suggest, and we are certainly not as bad as they suggest.” (33:03)

• Courage in the Face of Loss: In 2016, Jen publicly affirmed the sanctity of LGBTQ relationships, knowing she would lose her career, belonging, and friendships in certain faith-based spaces, but chose integrity over acceptance.

  • “I knew I was either going to keep my career or I was going to keep my integrity. But I could not have both. ...You cannot put a price on living in your own integrity. It’s priceless.” (36:52–46:49)

• The secret cost among leaders: Jen acknowledges that many religious leaders actually agree with her affirming stance but “won’t ever share that publicly.” She encourages them to count the cost and remember that “the price is so cheap compared to what you get.” (47:04–48:36)

6. Rethinking Faith, God, and Inclusion (48:36–58:48)

• Radical love as the core of faith: Jamie and Jen both articulate that the heart of spiritual practice is love and inclusion, not judgment or marginalization.

  • “What would Jesus make of this mess? He would not be welcomed into this Western American evangelicalism. ...He will take you down unpopular paths.” (48:55–52:03)
  • “Because we are just worthy to God, just as we are. Not for what we do for him, you know, and so that's really good news.” (52:03)

• Personal relationship with God: Both Jamie and Jen highlight the importance of going beyond organized structures to seek spiritual truth personally and trust one’s own experience of love and guidance.

  • “When in doubt, my North Star is what would love have to say about this? That almost never leaves me wrong. ...The love is the thing. Love is the point, and love is the way.” (56:19–58:04)

7. Reclaiming Romance and Sexuality After Pain (59:40–69:29)

• Dating after a long marriage: Jen humorously recounts her awkward (12-hour!) attempt at Bumble, her accidently successful first date, and eventually, finding mature love with her boyfriend Tyler in her 50s.

  • “Love is not just for the young. ...You can recover in such a way that your little tender heart wants to love again.” (62:41)
  • “It is so fantastic to fall in love as a grown adult. ...Adult love is really fun.” (64:57–65:54)

• Liberation from shame: Jen details shedding purity culture and body shame, discovering vibrant intimacy, and encouraging listeners to recognize that their bodies are enough—at any age.

  • “I highly recommend moving into a new sexual space as a grown up without shame. Let’s start there.” (66:22)
  • “Your body is just great. Take it right into the bedroom. It's going to do the trick.” (69:31)

8. Final Words of Hope: Being Wide Awake (70:08–73:27)

• Never quitting oneself: Jen closes with a message of hope—awakening is available to anyone, at any age or circumstance, regardless of who’s at fault for the pain. She sees herself as a “friend and a big sister holding up a lantern” for those still in struggle.
  • “My eyes are open. I can see for myself. I'm awake. Wide awake. Eyes bright and alive and scanning the horizon with great hope for the second half of my life.” (70:08)
  • “Keep going. Your story is about to turn beautiful. ...I am holding up a lantern and I'm like, come on, keep going. ...You're gonna get here.” (71:02)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Nothing is beyond our capacity. I'm never going to be afraid again because I can trust myself.”
  – Jen Hatmaker, 00:00

• “We still get to write the rest of the story. It's not dependent on someone else.”
  – Jen Hatmaker, 00:44

• “My mom is the same person behind the curtain as in front of it. ...I hope that they would point to integrity and say, we believed. We got to believe who she was.”
  – Jen Hatmaker, 12:20

• “Do the boring, hard, excruciating work of recovery, of examination, of truth telling, of vulnerability. ...It will get you there.”
  – Jen Hatmaker, 26:15

• “My body is the singular source of the highest wisdom I can access.”
  – Jen Hatmaker, 29:20

• “Either I hand that [self-worth] to everybody else to decide, or it's an inside job. The end. Like, the end.”
  – Jen Hatmaker, 33:03

• “I could not look myself in the mirror. I could not do it. And so I knew that I was either going to keep my career or I was going to keep my integrity. But I could not have both.”
  – Jen Hatmaker, 44:05

• “He [Jesus] will take you down unpopular paths. ...He is not interested in anybody's power or their position... The love is the thing. Love is the point, and love is the way.”
  – Jen Hatmaker, 48:55, 56:19–58:04

• “Your body is just great. Take it right into the bedroom. It's going to do the trick.”
  – Jen Hatmaker, 69:31

• “Keep going. Your story is about to turn beautiful. ...All along they're in charge of their own story and they can rewrite it. ...I'm excited for people to go, I want to be awake in my own life.”
  – Jen Hatmaker, 71:02

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–04:34 | Jen’s realization about self-sufficiency after divorce
• 05:31–12:20 | Parenting through crisis and modeling resilience
• 14:33–20:54 | Identity, legacy, and reclaiming the magic of life
• 21:27–29:20 | Healing after betrayal; listening to body wisdom
• 33:03–43:34 | Coping with cancel culture and living with integrity
• 47:04–52:03 | Church, exclusion, and the real message of Jesus
• 59:40–69:29 | Dating, adult love, and liberated sexuality
• 70:08–73:27 | Final words: being awake and hopeful for the future

Takeaways

• Nothing is out of reach: It’s never too late to reclaim your life skills, dreams, or power.
• Self-trust is the foundation: Trusting one’s inner wisdom, especially bodily knowing, is key.
• Healing is slow, but possible: Recovery from betrayal and loss is both excruciating and magical.
• Authenticity trumps acceptance: Living out your deepest truth—even at great personal cost—is freeing.
• Love is central: Whether in faith or relationships, lead with love, inclusivity, and compassion.
• Joy and magic remain: Even after great suffering, it’s possible to fall in love with life—and yourself—again.

Jen Hatmaker’s new memoir, Awake, and Jamie Kern Lima’s Worthy are available wherever books are sold. For further inspiration and practical resources, visit their websites or subscribe to their newsletters—both hosts encourage listeners to stay connected and never give up on their own awakening and self-belief.