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The Jamie Kern Lima Show
Kelsey Grammer Reveals All: Lessons on Love, Loss, Healing & Remembering (Pt 1)
01:22:01
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- [00:00]
Kelsey Grammer
I think the message that came through was Karen sand, it's time. You need to remember and live your life. Yeah, I was really, it was a great moment. She said, I've missed you. So I do this all the time. I do this with my kids. They all go like, oh, here he goes again. Grief is a heavy weight to continue to carry. It's very hard. And you suffer through with this idea that, oh, by letting go of the grief, you're somehow letting go of them. But I learned through this book that that isn't the case by hanging onto the things that are good. Actually, I'm closer to her as I was when I was with her when she was with us. And so she is with us again. That's the key.
- [00:54]
Jamie Kern Lima
How do you remember the people in your life who you loved and have lost? And have you considered how that impacts your life, your healing, your spirit and your joy today? Well, today we're talking about love, loss, healing, remembering and celebrating a joy filled life with my guest today, Kelsey Grammer.
- [01:18]
Kelsey Grammer
You're opening the cocktail onions.
- [01:20]
Jamie Kern Lima
Cocktail onions. I did my homework. I read that you love cocktail onions. I'm like, okay, we've got to have them on the set.
- [01:26]
Kelsey Grammer
Thank you.
- [01:27]
Jamie Kern Lima
I was a Denny's waitress, which I just learned. You're a Denny's dishwasher. Dishwasher. I actually go and celebrate at Denny's to this day. Yeah. And I see you're getting emotional. Kelsey is a Golden Globe award winning, Emmy award winning, Tony award winning screen actors guild award winning people's choice award winning actor, comedian and producer. He first gained fame for his role as Dr. Frasier Crane on the hit TV show Cheers and later it's spring spinoff Frasier making primetime television history playing one of the longest running roles for more than 20 years by a single actor. He is the founder of Faith American Brewing Company, a husband to his wife Kate and the father of seven children. It was recently announced he'll be playing Beast in the much anticipated doomsday. And today we're actually seeing a deeply personal and intimate part of Kelsey and perhaps one of the most important and most meaningful works of his life. Kelsey's brand new book where he explores love, loss, healing and celebrating the memory of a life filled with joy.
- [02:34]
Kelsey Grammer
Remember is my favorite word. That is the most powerful word in the English language. To the idea that you were once a member of something, you were once close to another person in their membership and when you remember them, they, they're no longer gone.
- [02:50]
Jamie Kern Lima
What you just said about remember, like just sent Chills through my whole body to break down the word. For so many people listening right now, they have loved ones they've lost. And for you to say, remember, you were a member with them. You were in membership with them. And by remembering, it's almost like you reignite that connection, that aliveness, that in membership with them.
- [03:17]
Kelsey Grammer
I said, we gotta put a bullet in this thing. I mean, we have to kill this show. He said, I can't. I can't kill it. And I knew my life. I knew my life was changing. I thought, it's changing. And I met Kate. He said, I was on that flight when you and Kate met. He told me that. I said to him, I think I'm gonna marry that girl.
- [03:35]
Jamie Kern Lima
Wow.
- [03:37]
Kelsey Grammer
You have a relationship with God. If you have one and you're listening, you know, you don't need to doubt it. It's really there. I was in a conversation with Jesus, and I thought, boy, this is really, really interesting. But it's as clear and vivid as anything I've ever done. I was like, hey, you don't need to keep carrying this. I've got it. That was the big thing. He said, I got it. What do you mean, I got it? I mean, I'm fine. I can handle it. It's all right. He said, no, no, this is not for you. That's why I came. You don't need to carry this so I can give it up. It's a good thing.
- [04:19]
Jamie Kern Lima
In Karen Kelsey shares the tragic story of the death of his sister Karen, who was brutally murdered at the age of 18, and the journey of his own path to healing in his life. In Karen Kelsey aims to help others who have experienced similar loss to offering solace and encouragement to cherish the love they knew, however brief, on their own path toward healing. And whether today you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima show podcast family. And if you're here right now, can you do me a quick favor? If you like the show and the guests that I bring you, if you could please hit the subscribe or follow button on the app that you're listening or watching on it truly means the world to me. Thank you so much. And I want to remind you that this episode, it's not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person you know, because what you're about to hear could change your life and theirs too. Also, every episode of the Jamie Kreme Lima show features a wide range of guests. I believe that you can't help heal humanity through love unless you understand the humans that make it up. I have friends who vote differently, love differently, and believe completely differently than me. I've gotten hate for giving them love, but I'll never stop doing that because I know why I'm here, and it's to be a force for love. This world, now more than ever, desperately needs the force for love inside each of us. You can't help heal humanity through love if you only love the people who are just like you and aren't truly open and curious about the humans who make up the collective humanity that I believe is possible for us, all of us, to heal together. And with that, let's get this episode started.
- [06:10]
Kelsey Grammer
Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.
- [06:13]
Jamie Kern Lima
Oprah, how have you defied the odds?
- [06:17]
Kelsey Grammer
Her show is unlike any I've ever done. A revelation. When you listen, it feels like a hug. But your brain and your spirit and your heart is like, wow.
- [06:28]
Jamie Kern Lima
Melinda French Gates.
- [06:30]
Kelsey Grammer
When I look into Jamie's eyes, I feel like I am on some other cosmic level with her.
- [06:37]
Jamie Kern Lima
I could see the light around her.
- [06:38]
Kelsey Grammer
She's infused with light.
- [06:40]
Jamie Kern Lima
Imagine overcoming self doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself and know you are enough. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.
- [06:52]
Kelsey Grammer
Jamie Kern Lima is her name.
- [06:53]
Jamie Kern Lima
Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life. Jamie Kern Lima. Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima, Kelsey Grammer. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.
- [07:10]
Kelsey Grammer
Thank you. Thanks, Jamie. That was lovely.
- [07:11]
Jamie Kern Lima
I see you're getting emotional listening to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [07:15]
Kelsey Grammer
Well, you. You got it. That's. That's. That's why I wrote it. Just. It turned out to be. That was the mission. I didn't know it at first because I got a very strange imperative saying, you know, write this. Well, didn't say write, actually just said tell, tell, tell my story through my sister, from my sister, through Esther, somebody we were working with at the time. And so it's. It just turned into the book. Yeah, it was a wonderful, wonderful exploration and discovery all at the same time. Because I rediscovered my life with Karen. I discovered a purpose for writing the book while writing it and really just wanted to help people find some peace, like the word solace. Some understand that we are not alone with God and one another and that that person, when remembered, is no longer distant or lost in the moment of remembrance, memory. They're reinvigorated, they're revivified and are brought back to life in our minds, in our memories, in our extension of thought, to Them, they live again. So that's kind of what I wanted.
- [08:32]
Jamie Kern Lima
To say to people, which is so beautiful. I mean, I think, you know, every person who lives long enough and who's blessed enough to love somebody deals with loss and grief. And you talk a lot in the book Karen, which everyone should go pick up their copy. Yes, they should, immediately. But you talk a lot about the power of remembering. And can you share just a little bit more about that?
- [09:03]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah. My first understanding of the remember is my favorite word. And my first comprehension of that was when I was 18. I was asked by one of the girls at the dance school that was on the same floor, Juilliard, as I was. The drama department at the dance school was on the same floor. So we would all sort of co. Mingle. And one of the girls said, I want to set a new piece I'm working on. She was choreographing to music, but I want the music to be the spoken word. And I have this poem that I'd like you to read for me while I do these dancing. And I said, sure. And the poem had the word remember in it. And at which point I thought, boy, that is the most powerful word in the English language. It has remained that way for me. I mean, I like a lot of other words as well, but remember is the one that gives me the most pleasure because of the idea that you were once a member of something. You were once close to another person in their membership. And when you remember them, they. They're no longer gone. They're there. They're there with you. And so that's. That's when I first sort of really fell in love with the word itself. And then when the. We were discussing the title for the book, you know, it was like, you gotta remember. It's gotta be in there somewhere. And it's about Karen. So, you know, it became My Brother Remembers. But it's, you know, in reading, you learn the value of the work to me, and hopefully to another group of people who will read it and say, yeah, I feel that. Because once that starts, it's like channeling almost. You take one step into it, the first sentence, the first word, and you're suddenly. You've broken through every time barrier in the world. You've pulled people out of the grave, you've embraced them again. And it's a wonderful thing.
- [10:56]
Jamie Kern Lima
What you just said about remember just sent chills through my whole body. Because to break down the word. And I think for so many people listening right now, they're gonna have a Big aha moment over this. Right. Because they have loved ones they've lost and still love. And for you to say, remember, you were a member with them, you were in membership with them. And by remembering, it's almost like you reignite that. What's already there, but that connection, that aliveness, that in membership with them, when did that happen for you, in a way you were able to feel with your sister? And. And can you tell me about Karen?
- [11:42]
Kelsey Grammer
Sure. For a long time, it was very hard for me to think about Karen, but I was excavating the tragedy. I was unearthing that. A lot of the time when I would reflect on her, I would reflect on what she suffered and what took place in her life and the people who were responsible. And there were so many other things that sort of echoed through my mind that were not. That were not honorific, that didn't celebrate her, that just sort of mourned her. And I was sort of lost in a kind of a loop of mourning. That was not. It wasn't healthy, but it was what I had to do. I mean, it's not that it was unhealthy. It's what I was given at the time. And, you know, I always love the Book of Matthew. Do what is given unto you. I was stuck in that. And it took me, this book, to actually find my way out into saying, oh, God, I'm so happy I knew you. Yeah, I was really. It was a great moment to understand in the writing of it that I was going to have this chance to be with my sister again and to hold her and to love her and to hold her hand and laugh at things together again. It was a really extraordinary thing. It was a great, great life we had together, which is why it was so tragic to me, why it's so hard for me for a long time, to kind of wrestle out of that. And I really didn't do it for a long time. And I think the message that came through was Karen saying, it's time. You need to remember and live your life.
- [13:34]
Jamie Kern Lima
Hmm. Will you tell me more about that? Like, about its impact on you when you chose to write? Sure.
- [13:43]
Kelsey Grammer
Well, I feel a lot lighter. I did actually get to drop a lot of grief. Grief. Grief is a heavy weight that you continue to carry. It's very hard, and you suffer through with this idea that, oh, by letting go of the grief, you're somehow letting go of them. But I learned through this book that that isn't the case by hanging onto the things that are good. Actually, I'm closer to her as I was when I was with her, when she was with us. And so she is with us again. That's the key. So it's been great. And she's with my family now. I'm with Kate. And Kate dealt with me writing this for two and a half years when I finally turned to Kate. And it always choked me up a little bit, but I'm getting more used to saying it. But she's such an extraordinary woman. When I said I finished it, I turned and said, it's done. And she said, I've missed you. Thanks, babe. I do this all the time. I do this with my kids. They all go like, oh, here he goes again. But it's a very rewarding life to care this much about things, so it's okay.
- [15:07]
Jamie Kern Lima
Tell me about your wife.
- [15:12]
Kelsey Grammer
Well, Kate and I met in what is one of the great fantasy meetings of all time. I mean, almost every guy I meet says, wow, you lived the dream. So we met on a flight to London. She was working for Virgin Atlantic, and she was part of the cabin crew. She looked good in red. We struck up a nice conversation, and I was at a very big crossroads in my life. I knew my life was changing. I'd gotten this. I just finished doing this show called Hank, which was. And we always say this now, this is for the next book. This is the story. Stuff like this for the next book. So I finished filming this show called Hank, which was a terrible show. It wasn't funny. It was supposed to be funny. It was just ghastly. And I had actually called Peter over to Warner Brothers, and I said, peter, we got to put a bullet in this thing. I mean, we have to kill this show. He said, I can't. I can't kill it. We've got obligations to foreign sales and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I thought, please, please. And sure enough, the next day, Steve from ABC called and said, I'm putting a bullet in this show. It's gotta go. I was like, thank God. And 35 minutes later, I got a call from Barry Weissler in New York City saying, I got this show. I'm gonna bring it over to Broadway. I want you to be in it. Fly to London. Can you get on a plane in a couple of days and go see it and we'll talk about you doing it there? And that was it. And I knew my life. I knew my life was changing. I thought, it's changing. And I met Kate. And recently we went to what was. Was one of the. They were just an invited screening of a couple of the Chosen series and we saw our friends there and a guy walks up to me and says, hey, you remember me? And I was loath to say no because I don't like to hurt anybody's feelings, but I did not really remember him. But then he said, I was on that flight when you and Kate met. I started thinking. I remember sort of chatting a bit with some guys, like, you know, by the bar. Kate was in and out a bit. She was doing her job. But he told me that I said to him, I think I'm going to marry that girl.
- [17:32]
Jamie Kern Lima
Wow.
- [17:35]
Kelsey Grammer
I didn't really remember saying that to him, but it didn't make sense to me. I remember thinking it at one point. So maybe that's what happened. So I got to London and we. These are all off glides, but they're fun. I was staying at the Mandarin Oriental and it used to be the Hyde Park Hotel. I think maybe I shouldn't mention anything else except I walked in, I stopped at the concierge and concierge said, Hello. Oh, hello, Mr. Grandma. And there was a girl who, like, she was like 10ft tall and with a Russian accent. And I thought. And he looked at me as she walked away and he said, anything at all you need, Mr. Grandma? Anything. Oh. Oh, that's what he's saying. Okay, well, thank you. Thank you nonetheless. And then Kate and I connected by phone and decided we would meet for a drink. And I said, well, let's have a drink in the bar at the hotel. And as I walked downstairs that at the appointed hour, I looked in and I saw a bunch of the same kind of people. And I thought, that is not the place to take a girl on a first date. So I walked out on the street and I stood in the little Meridian right opposite Harvey Nichols. And she came up out of the tube stop and I saw her reapply her lipstick and I sort of smiled. And then she looked up and saw me looking at her and we took a walk. I said, let's go take a walk. We're not going to go in there for a drink. And so we went to Tor at Hyde Park. It was close to Christmas, so Winter Wonderland was up and running. And so I saw all the lights. It was a little cool. And then snowflakes started to fall. And I thought, pretty perfect. And we shared a kiss 20 minutes later.
- [19:23]
Jamie Kern Lima
Like a fairy tale. It was when you said a few minutes ago that you told her the book is finished.
- [19:32]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah.
- [19:33]
Jamie Kern Lima
And she said, I missed you. What did that mean to you? We need to pause for a super brief break and while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire. Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today. To keep going, to remember that they matter, and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected and more worthy.
- [20:02]
Kelsey Grammer
I am so excited for this book.
- [20:05]
Jamie Kern Lima
You know why?
- [20:06]
Kelsey Grammer
Because it's going to save so many people. It's gonna be so cool.
- [20:11]
Jamie Kern Lima
Were the your new beautiful book worthy?
- [20:16]
Kelsey Grammer
Get this book.
- [20:17]
Jamie Kern Lima
This book. I'm telling you, it's a book that can change anybody's life who picks it up. Anybody who's ever felt that they were not good enough didn't measure up.
- [20:27]
Kelsey Grammer
Something's missing in your life. I have to tell you. It's powerful. It's happening. It's worth it.
- [20:34]
Jamie Kern Lima
Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you. I went from struggling waitress facing non stop rejection to founder of IT Cosmetics, a billion dollar company by learning how to overcome self doubt and believe I am worthy of my hopes and dreams. And I'm sharing how you can too in my new new book, how to believe you are enough and transform your life. If you're ready to truly trust yourself and break through that barrier of self doubt and know that where you come from or even where you are right now doesn't determine where you're going, then Worthy is for you. It's time to go from doubting you're enough to knowing you're enough. It's time to step into all of who you are and into the person you were born to be. And it's time to believe that you are worthy of it. Because in life we don't become what we want. We become what we believe we're worthy of. Join the Worthy movement today by grabbing your copy of Worthy anywhere books are sold. Then head to worthybook.com now for free gifts including my five part course on becoming unstoppable and my 95 page worthy workbook action plan that teaches you how to implement the tools from the book into your real life. Right now.
- [22:03]
Kelsey Grammer
Worthy is groundbreaking.
- [22:05]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yo Worthy. You are Worthy.
- [22:08]
Kelsey Grammer
This book is going to change lives.
- [22:10]
Jamie Kern Lima
This book literally will teach you how to actually feel worthy so that you can have the strength, you can have the confidence.
- [22:16]
Kelsey Grammer
The lessons in this book and the strategies will change your life. You will never be the same again after you read this book. Jamie's book Worthy is a must read. It is going to inspire you, empower you, give you the Hope that you.
- [22:30]
Jamie Kern Lima
Need and the kick in the rear end that you deserve. Jamie's book Worthy is incredible. The gifts are going away, but they're all free right now on worthybook.com and now more of this incredible conversation together. When you said a few minutes ago that you told her the book is finished.
- [22:51]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah.
- [22:51]
Jamie Kern Lima
And she said, I missed you, what did that mean to you?
- [22:58]
Kelsey Grammer
Well, what it meant was that she was along for the ride, that she'd been there all that time, that she was. Now, I'm not gonna say she's perfect on this, because this is. You know, there were moments when she'd say, you know what? I could use a little attention over here, please. Thank you. But she was willing to let me take the ride. She was willing to let me fall into the grief as I did a few times, and re. Experience the loss and go so deep into a sort of a. Because the grief was revivified, too. You know what I mean? I went back in time, back in moments, back in time, moments of my childhood that I hadn't remembered for a long time, and I was fully in them. So she was missing me during that time, but willing to accept that and allow me to take the journey. And that's what was remarkable.
- [23:52]
Jamie Kern Lima
Kate's over here.
- [23:54]
Kelsey Grammer
Checking to see if you're hearing that.
- [23:58]
Jamie Kern Lima
When I was sharing this with you when we were walking here to the set. But as a reader was. I felt like I was right there with you through the book. And this is so different than how most books are written. And for the person who's listening right now, watching us right now, who maybe has, you know, dealt with the loss of someone they love or they're maybe just, you know, having a new focus on, wow. I want to remember people that maybe I've loved and have lost or that are still in my life. And you take us through this journey and. And it's so intimate and it's so powerful, and it's so purposeful. But then also, you're telling us how you're feeling in the moment as you're writing it. Like, you're almost like we're going through this journey of remembering with you. And so we're part of the remembering, and we're seeing how we can remember. And you're giving us an example of how we can remember in our own lives. But then we're also feeling what. We're experiencing, what you're feeling as you write it. And can you share a little bit of insight? Because there's going to be a lot of People watching, listening, that go, oh, my gosh, I want to. I want to remember. I want to remember. I want to. I want to remember with that person. I want to do that. Like, Kelsey, like, how do I do that? What did that look like for you as you went through this? How did you know it was time to do that? And how did you know or did you. It would be worth it or that you needed to. And how did you figure out how to.
- [25:43]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah, I didn't know how I was going to do it when I started, but I did have this sense that as it became a book, as it became. In the first couple of days of doing writing, I wrote. Like, the first day I wrote, I wrote about just a page and a half. And I realized then I thought, oh, I think this is a book. This is a real book. And then I thought that I had to take people with me, that they had to be invited along for the ride, and that my obligation to them was to point the way back to things that I had known and learned and that would hopefully agitate their imagination enough to say, oh, yeah, I've lived that way. I've had that moment. So that we were on the trip together. So we were. Instead of, you know, holding just Karen's hand, I was holding the reader's hand. I mean, at one point in the book, I even write a letter to the reader with the sort of the understanding that they might actually not want to finish the journey. I thought, but, you know, so far, this is where we've gone. I hope you're with me still. If you want to put the book down now, that's okay. But I said, we have some things to do still. I have some places I have to go, and I have you now. I have you with me. And so it was a very direct address kind of thing. And I did. There's a conceit about Henry Fielding, who wrote Tom Jones. When I read Tom Jones, I was 18 years old. I was riding the subway all the time, and I was laughing out loud at it. And I thought, my. What a Wonderful gift from 200 years Previous from this guy who had the arrogance or the. Just the. The confidence to say, this is probably the best book you'll ever read in your life. He says it right there, right out. And I thought, that's what I want to have. I want to establish that kind of a relationship with whoever might be reading the book at the time and say, it's us together. I know you're there, and I'm with you. You're with me. Let's go do this. And that arrived, I don't know, 60, 70 pages into the book, when I suddenly thought, okay, I got to explain this about Henry Fielding. So he's in there. And I said, you can blame him if you want to. It was a nice device, but it also. It sort of. It got rid of the idea that there was any distance between us, between my telling of the story and the reader. And it will always be, in an immediate sense, the time. Time collapses into the book, and there's no time in it. There is no chronology. But there is the sort of. But whatever. You bounce from one place to the next. Like, life is just a. A bauble. You know, you can. You can just say, I'm going from here to there. I'm going from here. I'm going to South America right now. I'm going to. I'm going to go back to Southern California. And you just take them with you.
- [28:30]
Jamie Kern Lima
It's how remembering is.
- [28:31]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah, I think it is. Yeah.
- [28:33]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah.
- [28:33]
Kelsey Grammer
So it's. It's. It's a reflected sort of word puzzle, I guess that sort of indicates where my brain's been.
- [28:41]
Jamie Kern Lima
Can you share with everyone, Esther, and how Karen came through? I get so many messages and DMs from people saying, you know, what about a plant medicine journey? What about this? What about, like, just all these. And I think what I've learned. I knew this already, but I know this even more powerfully through doing this show, is that when I feel like when each of us, like, share our stories, that it helps everyone feel less alone and more enough. And they just kind of, I think, revel in that. I think we need that now more than ever, that connection. But for you, can you talk about, through the story of Esther, how Karen. How Karen, like, how this all started? Because there are gonna be people at home going, wait, can I get Esther's number? Like, what do I do?
- [29:28]
Kelsey Grammer
Esther's pretty gifted. I've known a few gifted people. This was. I mean, I produced a show called Medium, and I guess that was part of it. I was always kind of in that community a little bit. And I found out, of course, everybody who's a medium actually wants a television show. So it was like, a lot of people contacted me for a while, and you do find out that some are really gifted. Some are, you know, okay, yeah, maybe they're getting hits. Maybe they are accurate some of the time. But if you got somebody who doesn't know you, who's accurate about your life, 70% of the time pulls names out of the air. You may as well pay attention, whatever your point is, or whatever jaundiced view you may have of the whole mediumship issue. Because Greg Laurie's a pal of mine and he's not particularly happy about, you know, being a. Not of necessarily being sort of on the evangelical scale. He's sort of more toward conservative. And they're not so crazy about this idea of channeling. However, I always think to myself, well, isn't Ecclesiastes. Not Ecclesiastes, but Revelation? Isn't that a channeled book? I mean, didn't John sit there and didn't Jesus come and visit him and talk to him? And so there are examples in the Bible, but I suppose they just want you to deal with the fact that they're in the Bible, not necessarily in your life. And I think that may distance a lot of people from the revelation that takes place every day in our lives on this planet today. I think that revelation is unfolding and it comes to all of us if we have the good fortune to be open at the moment.
- [31:01]
Jamie Kern Lima
Will you explain what you mean by that?
- [31:04]
Kelsey Grammer
Well, the unfolding revelation, you have a relationship with God. If you have one and you're listening, you know, you don't need to doubt it. It's really there. You know, we'll mess with ourselves a lot because we've been told we should. We've been told we shouldn't have faith in faith. But nonetheless, it still keeps coming up. There's a great story about Barabbas, one of the guys. When the people of Jerusalem said, give us Barabbas instead of Jesus, Pilate said, you can have this guy or you can let Jesus. You can let Jesus go. You can take this guy. He'll die instead. And they said, give us Barabbas instead, Basically sort of sealing Jesus death. And there was a great movie. Tony Anthony Quinn did it. And somewhere in the middle of it, I saw it. God when I was 10, something like that. He's having a terrible life, but all he can think about is Jesus. And somebody says to him, well, if all you're doing is thinking about him, isn't that some indication that it might be real? And so he became one of his ardent followers, one of his first devoted followers, Barabbas. Anyway, I've gone off path a little bit. Esther Journeys, plant medicine. I think my plant medicine is actually writing. I didn't realize it at the time, but it just takes me in deeper. It's sort of like I'm in some Sort of an altered state. And it's been extraordinary. And in those moments, that's when the book was most alive, you know, and it would come to me. There are scenes I mentioned in the book where I was just sort of contemplating and sitting in a dark room and I felt surrounded by hundreds of voices, people who were gone and still present in my life, some of them, but they were as clear as the bell, you know, saying, you don't need to suffer so much. You've done enough. You've done enough of that. And those were wonderful moments. So Esther came into my life through a friend who knew that I was, you know, a person on the path, sort of trying to figure out what we all mean, why we're here and all that stuff.
- [33:31]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah.
- [33:33]
Kelsey Grammer
He said he's not really an active friend of mine. It was just a guy that I'd met a couple of times who said, you need to talk to this gal Esther. She's amazing. And if you do, if you do like a zoom meeting with her, she can sort of read what's going on with your body, health wise and stuff. She'll say, you know, oh, you need to have a look at that part of your stomach or something, whatever. But that wasn't our relationship. That wasn't the way I encountered her. We had a phone conversation and I describe it in a book a little bit, but it was very funny for me because I'm a little bit. I look on this with slightly, you know, skeptical energy. So she's from South America, she's got a bit of an accent. And Esther said, all right, give me a minute. Okay. Are you relaxed? Yeah, I'm sort of lying on the floor in one of our bedrooms in Palm Springs. And she said, okay, I hear a little rattle, some shaking of sticks. And I thought, oh, boy, here we go. And then it was just a couple minutes later. She said, oh, your sister wants you to tell her a story. Okay. Yes, Karen. Karen wants you to tell her story. So that was kind of it, really. And I have a picture of it in the book. The notepad I was writing, it's just an envelope turned sideways. It was the back of the envelope where I just was jotting down what she was saying. And I've got to tell her story, tell Karen's story on it. So there's a picture of that in the book.
- [35:22]
Jamie Kern Lima
What did that feel like when she said that? And did you believe her?
- [35:26]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah, yeah. Now, I've had several mediums, of course, as I said, I produced this show who said there Was, you know, that Karen came through and, yeah, I believed it at least half the time. I believed that they were having some sort of connection because I know she's with me. So if they have a gift and they're seeing her, hearing her, you know, I'm not so good at doing that. But through the writing, I sort of felt like I was closer to her that way and understood that she's been there. Right there.
- [35:53]
Jamie Kern Lima
Right there. When you talk about, you know, all of these people that have passed or that are living that are in your life and you're in, like a dark room and you're hearing all the voices and. Is that when you write only.
- [36:07]
Kelsey Grammer
No, no, that was just. That was a meditative moment. I wrote about it a couple days later.
- [36:12]
Jamie Kern Lima
Wow.
- [36:13]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah, it was just logged.
- [36:15]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah.
- [36:16]
Kelsey Grammer
Filed away.
- [36:17]
Jamie Kern Lima
And was it just like you were in meditation or prayer and it just came.
- [36:20]
Kelsey Grammer
It's sort of like prayer. Well, the same kind of thing happened a few weeks before. I'm trying to put. I've got it right timing wise, but I think I do. A few weeks before, I just had one of those moments when I thought, I want to do something worthwhile, something important, and I just sort of gave up and said, you know, help me out here. And the very next day, the script came to the door for Jesus Revolution, which I was one of the great successes of my life. I loved playing that role. I called my agent an hour and a half later after reading the script and said, I'm doing this. So, you know, these things happen.
- [37:00]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah. Like you said earlier, when you open yourself to them. Yeah, right. Yeah. It's so interesting. Kelsey, in my life, I believe our life is divinely orchestrated. I think we have choice. I think all of that. I find that when I talk about my faith or talk openly on the show, for example, about my faith, what's so tricky is that everyone's at different places of faith in their life. So some people write in and say they're mad. I'm talking about God. Someone else will write in and say, you didn't talk about God correctly.
- [37:41]
Kelsey Grammer
Right.
- [37:41]
Jamie Kern Lima
All these things that's been going on.
- [37:44]
Kelsey Grammer
For a long time. We have all these different religions.
- [37:47]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yes. And even inside the same one. And it's interesting because of what you shared earlier. You know, sometimes people are in different ranges of their belief in faith or they don't want to hear about a medium or this or that. And I always. I just feel like it will not be until we are, you know, in part of our eternal life that we Even understand all the things. I feel like humans can try to judge. I have a. One of my best friends doesn't like crystals. I love crystals. I'm like, first of all, God created them. That's the first thing. And I'm so open to all of that. I felt like when I wrote. I've written two books, and I felt. I just felt like I didn't write them. I felt like they came through me. And it's like, a hard thing to explain. But I love that you share the process of writing this book, not only because so many people that are going to read it, they're going to pick up Karen, the book. Karen may want to write their own book, or they may want to actually just start writing their own story or a loved one's story, or they may want to remember through writing, and maybe they never share it with anyone else, but it's their own kind of private process of doing that. How do you know. How do you know for sure that Karen is with you and has been with you through this process of the book?
- [39:18]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah, I guess I just know. But years ago, people would say to me things like, you know, well, she's here. You know, she's here. And I'd sort of, you know, get skeptical or whatever. But then it became overwhelmingly clear that Karen and I hadn't, like, left each other. We stayed together. And I almost. From the moment she was gone or the moment she was killed, I sensed that I was living with her. Like she was along for the ride, always there. I know she was with my mom sometimes. One guy, I was meeting him a while back, said something to me. He said, oh, you know, did one of those things. And then he said, yeah. She said she's sorry. She didn't realize that the grief would be so. So hard. It's interesting. Yeah. So I've had reminders from a lot of people, but you get your own taste for this stuff. Yeah. Karen's real. She's there. It happens. She has come, and she's spoken to Kate. I think a few times. I'm not gonna pull her in too much on that, but she's been available because I think she's always had. She's been really attracted to life, you know, really like a flame, you know, it's like, you want to be near life. You want to be near love. It's like my version of heaven is. I can't imagine God would take us to a place where we would not remember our love or where suddenly we don't get to be Here with our loved ones, or you guys are done, you'll never see each other again. That's nonsense.
- [41:09]
Jamie Kern Lima
You know, one of my friends, Erwin McManus, who's a pastor, he was giving this keynote speech right before me at an event. And his whole keynote was on quantum entanglement. And I'm thinking, what is quantum entanglement? But I'm listening to the whole thing, and he said something so powerful. He said that he believes that because we grieve and because we feel so deeply for people we've loved and lost, that once they're gone, you know, they're gone in physical form. That he believes it's proof of eternal life, the fact that we still feel so deeply. And he talks about, like, resonance between souls and how it's proof that they're soul, soul, and that there's eternal life based on how strong we feel for somebody and if that person just disappeared, that we wouldn't feel that connection or that sense of, they're here or they're with me, or they're. They're, you know, showing me a sign or giving me a nudge or speaking to me or speaking to my wife or any of those things. And it was so profound, the way he explained it. He explained it far more eloquently than I just did, but he explained it, and I had never thought of it that way.
- [42:24]
Kelsey Grammer
That's pretty good.
- [42:24]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah, right? That we're so deeply connected emotionally and in other ways, that the essence of their essence and our essence, he explained, have, like, united, as you would say, we're in membership with. And how it's proof that even if they are not here in physical form, that their soul is still there and that there's eternal life.
- [42:48]
Kelsey Grammer
We had a great moment when Kate and I were having a fight. When we were in our early. Our first year together, basically living at my mom's old house. We'd had a bit of a tussle and climbed into bed, kind of mad with each other and thought, you know. And I heard this huge bang in the living room, and what the heck? So I reached out of the bed and I grabbed a golf club I kept there for that reason. And Kate said she was going to go. She'll go check it out. You know, I got this. I said, don't get ahold of yourself. Don't get carried away. Said, I'll take this one. So I opened the door and I went out of the living room. Kate went back to bed. I walked in, the TV was on, and I thought, well, I know, I turned that off, so it's weird. Looked around a little bit, turned it off, thought, thanks, Mom. You know, don't go to bed angry with each other. Okay. So I went into the room, and then Kate said, what did your mom smell like? She smelled flowers. It was really something. Really something. I thought, wow, this is real. This is not some heretical thing going on. And you mentioned that people object to discussing faith or not discussing it enough. I'm not a proselytizer. I don't try to convince people they should think the way I think or see God the way I see God, or experience this universe the way I experience it. But I will not deny my faith. I will not say to make someone else comfortable, to say, oh, no, I don't believe any of that. I'm not going to try to force you to think the way I think or feel what I feel, but I'm not going to deny it. I have this relationship with Jesus, with God. It's an open conduit. It just exists. And I did question it for a long time. So believe me, I fought my way to get here and realized after all this time, oh, you were always there. Oh, what was wrong with me? Well, there was nothing wrong with me. Just I wasn't ready to listen.
- [45:02]
Jamie Kern Lima
It's okay with. I think so many people are in this point in their own faith journey. I have so many friends. This way I dealt with. I mean, I was raised going to church, and then I spent probably, I don't know, a couple decades just sort of like inside myself doubting God exists. And I remember I was in graduate school in New York City and around so many people that don't have faith at all or think that if you do believe in God, you're just not that smart. And. And I was around that all the time and also around a lot of different faiths. And I started to sort of question, hmm, like, you know, and I remember going through God doubt. And I. And I went to. This is. Years later, I went to my first ever therapist about something completely different and was telling her, I doubt God exists, and I'm doubting God exists. And she said to me, well, what makes you think he can't handle your doubt? And I'm like, what do you mean? And she's like, well, if he. And I don't even know if she believes at all. By the way she said, if he created the entire universe, like, what makes you think he can't handle your doubt? She goes, why don't you try praying? And Telling him you doubt he exists and to prove you wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt that he does. And I'm like, okay. And so this went on for a couple years, but, like, I would. I would. If I was, like, praying for a friend's health or something like that, I would end the prayer and I'd be like, and by the way, God, I'm doubting you exist. So if you could please show up in my life, right, Prove me wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt, I'd be so grateful. In Jesus name, amen. And I did that prayer, Kelsey. Like, there. Like, there is zero question in my mind. Like, the way God started showing up, where it was literally screaming in my face. Like, there's so many examples of this that have happened. And I'm just like, whoa. Like, the person that finally gave us a shot on QVC after years of my business struggling and us getting no's later, I thanked her. I was like, you loved our product. Thank you. And this was years later. This was after we had become their biggest brand. And she says she was a show host there for 17 years. And she says, no, no, no. I gave you a shot because God told me, go up and help that girl. Like, it was just like one thing after another after. And it was just like, whoa. So that. So for anyone listening right now, no matter where you are in your journey, like, that for me was something that was really powerful to do, is just like, call it like you see it, like, God, I am doubting you exist. Can you please show up, like, prove me wrong, but beyond a shadow of a doubt. Cause I don't want, like, a hint, like, just, like, beyond a shadow of a doubt. So for you, when you just shared that, I just know that so many people listening are gonna relate to that. And, you know, you share openly in your book, Karen, that everyone needs to go grab their copy of right now. You share about a lot of different hardships you've gone through and a lot of different struggles and a lot of different times you veered off course and a lot of different just, you know, journeys in your life. And I love so much that you share that because there's also so many people. Just as it pertains to faith, there's so many people that think, like, oh, you know, I'm imperfect, therefore I'm disqualified from praying, or I'm disqualified from asking for anything, or I'm disqualified from a relationship with God, or. Or they've met people that are so judgmental that they feel like it's not for them. And so I love that you share so candidly about your life's journey, your whole life's journey. I mean back to growing up, I mean back to all of, back to thoughts you had as a little kid, back to, you know, all the things and so for you, when, when and you say that you, you weren't, you didn't always have strong faith, what was it for you that was like, oh, God is real. And I know that for sure. We need to pause for a super brief break and while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire. Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today, to keep going, to remember that they matter, and to feel less alone and more more connected and more worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration. Which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one on one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy and love hitting your inbox. I'm your girl. Subscribe@jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show notes. Do you struggle with negative self talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful and when you learn to take control over your self talk, it's life changing and I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your Life. It's called 5 Ways to Overcome Negative Self Talk and Build self Love. And it's a free how to guide to overcome that negative self talk to build confidence and develop unshakable self love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals. Don't let self sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life. One filled with self Love, resilience and unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to Trust yourself at jamiekernlima.com resources or click the link in the show notes below. And now more of this incredible conversation together for you. When. When. And you say that you. You weren't. You didn't always have strong faith. What was it for you that was like, oh, God is real. And I know that for sure.
- [52:03]
Kelsey Grammer
Well, there were a few things along the way that came by. You know, it's. I had a reading with one of these people, does this sort of thing.
- [52:13]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah.
- [52:14]
Kelsey Grammer
And I was. I was doubting, you know, how did I get to this place? And it just came out. I said, do you think you could have done this without if God didn't love you? Oh, maybe, maybe not. So that was a great sort of just frank reminder that, you know, that this has been along for the ride the whole time. You know, some other medium years ago, clairvoyant, whatever you want to call them, when I was a very young man, said, oh, you're a sun worshiper. Well, I was actually. I mean, I believed that when I went to New York City for the first time, knowing that I was going to never leave there again. I mean, that I was. I was in for the long haul, having come from Florida and surfing. I was going to go try to be an actor. I was 18. And I just got this message, just swallow the sun. Swallow the sun. Have it shine within you for your whole life. Oh, that'll help. Okay, that's a good idea. So wherever that came from. And that reminded me, oh, yeah, I am sort of a sun worshiper. That light, that golden light that exists in us and outside of us at all times is one of those gifts, you know, that just says, I'm right over here.
- [53:37]
Jamie Kern Lima
Do you believe I struggle with this idea I'm about to ask you about? Because, you know, when I look at, for example, you know, I was a Denny's waitress, which I just learned. You're a Denny's dishwasher. Dishwasher. Okay. If you're listening to the show right now, you've got a Denny's waitress, a Denny's dishwasher. We're making magic.
- [53:57]
Kelsey Grammer
God bless the folks at Denny's.
- [53:58]
Jamie Kern Lima
The good people of Denny's love Denny's. So they. So I love them so much. I just Was on Shark Tank as a guest shark this season. And their profile piece, they showed me as a waitress at Denny's. Denny's reached out and they're sending me merch, which I'm so excited about, I have to tell you. It's like one of the most exciting things for me. But I actually go and celebrate at Denny's to this day. Yeah, when. When I did Oprah show for the first time, I went to Denny's to celebrate. Brought my daughter.
- [54:27]
Kelsey Grammer
So good.
- [54:29]
Jamie Kern Lima
Oh, I like their pancakes, like, whatever time of day.
- [54:32]
Kelsey Grammer
I always loved the patty melt.
- [54:33]
Jamie Kern Lima
That was my favorite. Yeah, that was your patty melt.
- [54:35]
Kelsey Grammer
And hot fudge sundaes.
- [54:36]
Jamie Kern Lima
And hot fudge sundaes. Their menu, although it's pretty expansive now, when I was working there, it wasn't quite this large. They have a lot of fun stuff. My daughter was excited about Moons Over Miami. She's like, she thought that was funny. So anyhow, when I launched this business in my living room, we worked 100 hour weeks for a decade. And then I look at the outcome of what happened and I'm just like, whoa. You know, I come. You know, I was adopted. My family that raised me is amazing. Multiple families. But my parents work so hard. They work just as hard as me and did not have the outcome. Not even close. And I wonder with you, when you look at your career so far, so far, still going, still going strong. Excited to watch you play Beast.
- [55:26]
Kelsey Grammer
Thank you.
- [55:27]
Jamie Kern Lima
Coming up in the Avengers Doomsday. But when you look at your career and there's probably moments where you think about like, huh, okay, everyone's freaking out that I'm the highest paid actor in all of Hollywood. Or, huh, that was a brief freak out in my sixth Emmy. Or I mean, on and on and on and on. Do you, do you ever go, how? I mean, of course you've worked so hard. Of course you have talent. Of course, all the things. And also there's a lot of people that work really, really hard and there's people with talent. So do you think that's God? What do you think it is that you have experienced so much success in so many different areas in your life?
- [56:11]
Kelsey Grammer
My wife has a saying. She says, always declare God your partner. And I like that idea a lot. Whether I consciously did that in my previous lifetimes, I don't know. But I think there is an alignment that occurs. Having luck is considered by W.H. auden. Having luck is considered alignment with providence, meaning God. And I like that idea. But if you have the wherewithal, the time the good fortune to hear what your calling is, what your mission is, because it comes up a lot. All of a sudden, somebody's saying, you know, I want you to do a play for me. That's what happened to me. They said, I think you'd be good in this role. And suddenly I'm standing there thinking, oh, I'm gonna go be an actor. So, I mean, these things that sort of bookmark our lives or landmark our lives are indications of where we can go. I, like somebody said recently, I heard somebody saying that, you know, I guess it's from Robert Frost. If you see a fork in the road, take it. Oh, no, I think it was Yogi Bear. Yogi Bear, I think he said it. But if you see a fork in a row, take it. You have these things that come and hit you on the head, and if you don't hear them, you know, there was a moment in my life when I was walking up the street to go move in with a girlfriend who was. It was a bad decision. It was a. A temporary stopover, let's say.
- [57:50]
Jamie Kern Lima
But, oh, we've all had them.
- [57:51]
Kelsey Grammer
It turned out poorly. But as I walked toward this moment when I'd be moving in, I heard more fire engines and more sirens than I'd ever heard in my life. To the point where my dog, who was my greatest friend at the time, was howling uncontrollably. And I kept thinking, oh, wait a minute. I thought it was Carlos Castaneda, and you know how the universe attempts to inform your choices. And I thought, am I making a mistake? Then I shook it up and said, no, that's crazy to think that. But at least it crossed my mind. And I've never forgotten it. As a result, it just was like everything in the universe was saying, you don't need to do this. But I did it anyway. So sometimes we listen, sometimes we don't. If you have the good fortune to hear it in the nick of time and take that course, God is with you, Jesus is with you. Whatever. It's like. And the book. I turned, after all this time, and I finally just. I just got a. I was in a conversation with Jesus, and I thought, boy, this is really, really interesting. But it's as clear and vivid as anything I've ever done. And, yeah, I was like, hey, you don't need to keep carrying this. I've got it. That was the big thing. He said, I got it. Said, well, what do you mean, I got it? I mean, I'm fine. I can handle it. It's all right. He said, no, no, this is not for you. That's why I came. You don't need to carry this. I was like, so I can give it up. It's a good thing.
- [59:31]
Jamie Kern Lima
I think we all need to hear that.
- [59:33]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah.
- [59:34]
Jamie Kern Lima
I struggle with that all the time. Like, I'll pray and ask God to carry something and then I think I still have to carry it.
- [59:40]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah, well, you know, you're a very, very successful person. You have all those habits of people who are. And, you know, we do think we're supposed to do it. We forget how often someone else is doing it for us. Yeah. And that the burden need not be ours. I heard this a while ago. There was one of those radio guys talking a sermon on it. I dial in once in a while in the car. I go between news and religious channels. The guy said, take my yoke upon me, take my yoke upon thee. And I thought, I always thought that meant, oh, I'm supposed to carry something for Jesus. Like, I'm supposed to take that yoke and be responsible for it. And the guy said, don't you get it? He's saying, we'll do this together. It's a two oxen yoke. It's a double. You know, you got it on you, I've got it on me. Take mine on you and I'll do the pulling. You don't have to. And that's. I've never heard it put quite that simply, but that's exactly what I did here at that one point.
- [60:48]
Jamie Kern Lima
Finally, I feel like, like living in alignment is. Or flow or. It's such a beautiful feeling. And also I feel like our body tells us, or fire engines and dogs tell us when we're out of alignment. And do you feel. Because I think this is a really new concept for a lot of people and they're actually learning to like, huh, what do I actually feel about this? Do I feel like I'm in alignment in this job or in this relationship or in this, you know, hobby, or in this friendship or friendship circle? Like, what is that? Like, how would you describe to someone listening, who wants to tune in more to understanding? Like, oh, yeah, okay, I'm in alignment. Like, this is like, you know, or flow or whatever versus, oh, I'm, you know, I'm just hearing fire engines for no reason. Like, how do you, how do you kind of learn to feel that in your body and then to trust it?
- [61:52]
Kelsey Grammer
I think it's just practice, honestly. I think you just have to acquaint yourself with the possibility that Stepping into this universe, which is a causal universe, there is a cause and an effect. You're on some path. There is something else with you. There is an energy that's here. We came to, to bask in it, to be part of it, to feel it sort of around us all the time. And it is around us all the time. We can close our ears to it, we can close our eyes to it, we can fight it. And all those things are probably the right choice at the time. Which is pretty interesting because you discover yourself and then you realize, oh, you're still there. Oh, still there. Okay, well then maybe I should relax about it a little bit. It doesn't mean surrender. I don't believe in you surrender to certain things. I think there is that moment in life when you realize, oh, oh, here it comes. I'm just gonna let this happen and see what comes next. But mostly we are given authorship. We are entitled to be the author of what we want to do. We either buck what we've been told or we buck other people. A lot of people tell us, oh, you'll never make it. That's a gauntlet for me. That's, oh yeah, well, just watch this. But the other still small voice that is always there is if you just take a minute to ask, just Matthew again. I go back to Matthew, just the first book of the Bible I read that I started to really pay attention to when I was pretty young. But knock and it shall be opened unto you. Ask and ye shall receive. It's pretty powerful. So all you really have to do is enumerate a question, a desire, a longing, whatever it might be, and the universe, God will do everything it can to make it happen for you.
- [63:47]
Jamie Kern Lima
I love what you just said is to ask. And it's so simple. But that's like the step I think most of us skip. We're sitting around waiting, we're waiting for something, but maybe we just need to ask, what am I supposed to do in this situation? Or you know, just ask the question and then just try to create space to hear the answer and seek and you shall find. Yeah, yeah, you say that, this, that Karen, but Karen, you say this is not a grief book, this is a lifebook. What is your advice for others looking to remember their loved ones well and also honor their life with joy?
- [64:31]
Kelsey Grammer
It's a double edged sword though, the grief book comment. Because when I first I spoke to the people who represent me, I was about 50 pages in and I said, I'm writing this book about my sister. They made assumptions about it. I said, well, a grief book's, you know, a couple, maybe 100 pages long and you know, they're usually sort of little pamphlets and oh, we do this now and maybe we get a publisher. I thought, boy, that is just the most sort of dismissive, unresponsive, irresponsible relationship I've ever been in with an agent. Why would I have someone to represent me who just assumed whatever I was doing was like, could be reduced into something that they would just say, well, this is what we do with that kind of thing. So I was a little pissed off about that, honestly. So when I wrote this is not a grief Book, It's a life book, that was my feeling at the time. So I thought I better get that down on paper. That's all. That's why it's in there. But it gathered more steam and more value for me as I finished the process and realized that this really was about a life and the life I'm still living and the life that Karen now lives and that, I mean, it's an extraordinary thing. I mean, Kate had this vision years, a year and a half ago and she said, it's really amazing what you're doing. It's like you're putting her in a library. She's going to be in a library. Your sister will live forever. That was really great. She said it's a great gift you're giving her. And I realized that I didn't know that at the time, but she's giving me a gift in this writing. But also there is this. I want people to know my sister. I wanted to know what a great them to know what a great girl she was. And I want her to have what I've had, this amazing gift I've had of approbation and, and applause and success and you know, and yeah, and self torture and all that nonsense. But that's, that was my, you know, that's my own sort of my wrestling with, you know, the why me thing, the survivors guilt stuff you go through. But I wanted to give her her due. She's due this. My success couldn't have been possible if it hadn't been for Karen. Wouldn't have happened. Knowing her, loving her and the remarks that she said, you know, you're going to do it all those were important things. And I wanted to live, I did live for her in a lot of ways. So I wanted to, I wanted people to know about her, just, you know, to celebrate her.
- [67:08]
Jamie Kern Lima
Karen will be in libraries.
- [67:10]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah.
- [67:11]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah.
- [67:12]
Kelsey Grammer
It's like the first time I saw one of these. It's in there, it's in there somewhere that it says it's registered in the Library of Congress and it has a number. And I thought, yeah, good. That's pretty great.
- [67:25]
Jamie Kern Lima
That's pretty amazing.
- [67:26]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah. Yeah.
- [67:28]
Jamie Kern Lima
I want to call something out just for everyone listening because I always believe that famous quote, success leaves clues. And just two things I want to share just for everyone listening right now that pertain to your own life. I love so much. You just shared. I asked this question about, oh, you say it's not a grief book, it's a lifebook. And you could have shared. Yes, it's a life. But you're like, oh, no, here's actually why I wrote that somebody tried to put me into a cookie, Cookie cutter thing. And like, I'm not gonna let that happen because that's, you know, I'm worthy of more than that. And I want to call this out because every person listening, all of us have had someone try to, you know, someone who might be some big agent or in our version of life, might be an in law or, or who knows who it is, a boss, whoever, and they'll quickly just put that limitation on us. And it's easy to let that happen or to just get pissed and not do anything about it or to kind of like go, huh, maybe they're right, or whatever. I love so much that you shared, like, no, that's not, this isn't going to be a hundred page cookie cutter griefbook, you know, and, and, and I love that you, that you stand up against that. And the other thing, I just want to share on that and this idea that success leaves clues because I always say this, like, it's usually, almost always when someone's so successful. It's not an accident. Right. It's a lot of things. But when we were getting ready to start the interview, we have like the first copy of your hardcover of Karen in the studio, but you quickly opened up my copy, a pre copy, to check if one error was in that, like a typo. Was that typo in there? And, and Kelsey, I can't even tell you how many celebrities, they don't even know. They wouldn't even know if there's or not even celebrities, authors in general. Right. There's a lot of people that, you know, they've had the gift of maybe someone else writing the book and that's great. There's nothing wrong with that. But the fact that you knew where the typo was and you're checking in the Pre copy. Is it there? I watched that and I had these memories flashed back to me about when I was building it. Cosmetics. I knew. I knew if, like, on the big fixture in, like, the Sephora or Ulta, I knew if the wrong graphic got put in and I could see it, and I would just be like, okay, I'm gonna do. Am I gonna. You know, and just like. Just like, when you care. When you care. And so watching you sit down and taking your own time. Cause the hardcover's out now, but going back to the early copy looking. Is that one. In this one, I just saw how much you care. And so with this idea, too, that success leaves clues. I just think it's worth pointing out because it's really cool, I think for everyone listening and watching who, you know, who maybe has seen your great success publicly as an actor or as a producer or as a comedian or as all the things that you are, an author, everything else. But to have that kind of insight into, like, oh, okay, it's not an accident. You know what I mean? When you see those two things. And I just want to call that out because I think that for people who Details really matter, which sometimes I wish. Oh, my gosh. I know. Sometimes I wish I didn't see them. One of my best friends, she was our very first employee at our company, and we had over 1,000 employees before we sold the business. But she would always. She'd always say to me before, like, a creative meeting, when the creative team would bring in all the campaigns and stuff, she'd be like, do you think they do shots before? Because she knew I was gonna, like, notice every detail. I'm like, I need to do shots before. Cause honestly, I wish I didn't notice the things, and I wish I didn't care so much. Cause sometimes it's easier not to. But when you see your success and then you just notice small things like that, I just want to call them out for everyone at home. Because, you know, for, you know, the person in their real life, whether it's at their job or at their. In their friendship circle or in a relationship or whatever it is. Like, you know, if you're a person that really cares about details and someone else maybe gets annoyed by that or doesn't want to, whatever. Like, I just feel like staying convicted of who you are and that gift that you have to see them and to care so much. I mean, I think that's something such a. Such a blessing to be able to do that. And so anyways, just wanted to share that with everyone at home. Can you talk about Karen visiting you and telling you that you're a water baby?
- [72:28]
Kelsey Grammer
Oh, that was an Esther. Another reading with Esther. That was great because that was when Karen said remember. Karen actually said the word remember. And what she wanted me to remember was something so glorious. It was fantastic from our youth that we shared that she saw. And I'd never seen it, she just told me it was fantastic. But this time I got to see it through her eyes. And that was an amazing regression, basically. But so Esther said, so you're going down into a cave, there are two children with you. I said, oh, there were two Chinese kids. It looked like they were about five and seven years old. And they were either Chinese or Japanese. I mean, I wasn't sure, but I was holding hands with them and said, they're going to take you into the cave. So we went into the cave and then she said, take a look at them now. It was Karen and me when we were younger. Oh, well, how did you guys do that? But, and then, so I thought maybe we'd past lives together. But then as she said, she's going to give you something. The girl's gonna give you something. Okay. She handed me a surfboard. Surfboard. Surfing was very important to me in my life, really important. And then she said, okay, what is it? I said, it's a surfboard. And then I said, whoa, wait, wait, it's changing. It's actually a slalom ski, a slalom water ski. And then suddenly it was this ski that I got at Sears I bought myself. When I started to water ski, I was, I think 14, 15. And then it took me to that day when we were on the water and Karen and Luann was driving. Karen was sitting there watching because somebody always has to look backward at the skier to make sure that they're, you know, okay, still, you know, haven't fallen off. And as we went, Karen was going like this to me. So in that moment when I realized what was going on, she showed me what it looked like. I looked like an angel. I was going back and forth across the wake, kicking 20 foot walls of water up off the ski and right behind me was the setting sun. So basically it was just a glowing angel, wings of water, you know, and a young boy skipping through life. It's pretty great. And she, she told me, she said, just remember that. I walked out after the session. I said to my wife, said, I'm a water angel. I know who I am now. So if I ever buy another boat, I'm naming it that. Oh, when you said. When I said, yeah, there's a specific reason for saying it's not a grief book. I just realized, and I haven't really put this together before, that is the guy I am. You tell me I'm not going to do this and I will do it. And that's so God bless him. Thanks for saying that because he made it so much more. You helped me to make it so much more. And God bless the people who told me you'll never make it as an actor because it's the same response. It was exactly the same response. And I've never quite gotten that until now.
- [76:03]
Jamie Kern Lima
Wow. Remember, this episode's not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person that you know because it can change their life too. And if you love today's episode, please click on the Follow or subscribe button for the show on the app that you're listening or watching it on. Give it a five star rating or review. And again, please share it with everyone you believe in. Share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it. Maybe they're going through grief too. Post it and share it with others online or in your community who just might need the words and and tools and lessons in this episode today. You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode. And thank you so much for joining me today. Before you go, I want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams and all the unconditional love in the world. And it is an honor to welcome you to each and every episode of the Jamie Kern Lima show here. I hope you'll come as you are, heal where you need, blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling and stay as long as you like. Because you belong here. You are worthy. You are loved. You are love. I love you and I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jami Kern Lima Show. Oh my gosh. You know that journey to believe you're actually worthy of something. Oprah, how have you defied the odds?
- [77:41]
Kelsey Grammer
Her show is unlike any I've ever done. A revelation. When you listen, it feels like a hug. But your brain and your spirit and your heart is like wow.
- [77:52]
Jamie Kern Lima
Imagine overcoming self doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself and know you are enough. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show. Imagine stepping into all of who you are and into the person you were Born to be unstoppable. Hi, I'm Jamie Kern Lima. And I went from struggling waitress facing non stop rejection to building a billion dollar company from my living room. And it's not because I'm smarter than anyone else. I didn't have the right connections. But I figured out how to believe in myself and how to believe my dreams are possible and believe that I'm worthy of them. And what I know for sure is that you are too fresh.
- [78:43]
Kelsey Grammer
We'll make you cry.
- [78:44]
Jamie Kern Lima
We'll make you laugh. We'll make you think. We'll make you feel.
- [78:51]
Kelsey Grammer
The greatest life lesson I have ever received.
- [78:54]
Jamie Kern Lima
You're not going to forget how you.
- [78:56]
Kelsey Grammer
Feel after each and every episode. Jamie Kern Lima is an angel walking on earth.
- [79:04]
Jamie Kern Lima
You hear me? You're going to be given those things that you can apply right now to your life.
- [79:17]
Kelsey Grammer
The James Lee show.
- [79:19]
Jamie Kern Lima
Writer by the day.
- [79:23]
Kelsey Grammer
So the moment with the. I have never talked about this before, but I'm going to talk about it with you.
- [79:33]
Jamie Kern Lima
Your brain and your spirit and your.
- [79:35]
Kelsey Grammer
Heart is like, wow. Oh, my gosh. It's one revelation after another. But when the most important person in.
- [79:44]
Jamie Kern Lima
Your life sees you and hears you, that is the greatest gift.
- [79:51]
Kelsey Grammer
That is the greatest gift.
- [79:53]
Jamie Kern Lima
Sharing things that they would not discuss with anyone else.
- [79:57]
Kelsey Grammer
I surrender.
- [79:59]
Jamie Kern Lima
I surrender. We have more tissues right down there.
- [80:05]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah. Loved. Thank you, Jamie. So it's specialty.
- [80:14]
Jamie Kern Lima
This show is for you. If you're ready to ignite that light inside of you and learn to shine it brightly. See, I believe where you come from or even where you're at right now doesn't have to determine where you're going. I know. And believe. You can go from underestimated to. To unstoppable. You can go from doubting yourself to trusting yourself, to believing in yourself and to loving yourself, even if it's for the first time ever or for the first time in a long time. It's your time. Today is your day. And this is your show.
- [80:56]
Kelsey Grammer
Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima show.
- [81:01]
Jamie Kern Lima
So come as you are, stay as long as you'd like. Heal where you need, blossom what you choose. Because you belong here. You, exactly as you are, are a miracle in motion, A mighty force for good. You are a masterpiece. I see you. I believe in you. I love you. You are worthy. And right now, I have one question for you. What would you do if you fully believed in you? Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show. It's such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.