← The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
Kelsey Grammer Reveals All (Pt 2): Lessons on Love, Loss, Healing & Remembering
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- [00:00]
Jamie Kern Lima
Coming up, an incredible Part two episode with Kelsey Grammer where he shares things he's never shared before and reveals stories that have changed his life for the first time ever. These inspiring stories and incredible life changing lessons just might change your life today too. Kelsey is a Golden Globe Award winning, Emmy award winning, Tony award winning Screen Actors Guild award winning People's Choice Award.
- [00:29]
Kelsey Grammer
Winning actor, comedian and producer.
- [00:32]
Jamie Kern Lima
He first gained fame for his role as Dr. Frasier Crane on the hit TV show Cheers and later its spin off Frasier making primetime television history playing one of the longest running roles for more than 20 years by a single actor. He is the founder of Faith American Brewing Company, a husband to his wife Kate and the father of seven children. It was recently announced he'll be playing Beast in the much anticipated Avengers Doomsday. And today we're actually seeing a deeply personal and intimate part of Kelsey and perhaps one of the most important and meaningful works of his life. Kelsey's brand new book where he explores love, loss, healing and celebrating the memory of a life filled with joy. And whether today you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show Podcast family. And if you're here right now, can you do me a quick favor? If you like the show, if you and the guests that I bring you, if you could, please hit the subscribe or follow button on the app that you're listening or watching on. It truly means the world to me. Thank you so much. And I wanna remind you that this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person you know because what you're about to hear could change your life and theirs too. Also, every episode of the Jamie Karen Lima show features a wide range of guests. I believe that you can't help heal humanity through love unless you understand the humans that make it up. I have friends who vote differently, love differently, and believe completely differently than me. I've gotten hate for giving them love.
- [02:13]
Kelsey Grammer
But I'll never stop doing that because I know why I'm here and it's to be a force for love.
- [02:19]
Jamie Kern Lima
This world, now more than ever, desperately needs the force for love inside each of us. You can't help heal humanity through love if you only love the people who are just like you and aren't truly open and curious about the humans who make up the collective humanity that I believe is possible for all of us to heal together. And with that, let's get this episode started.
- [02:44]
Oprah Winfrey
Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.
- [02:47]
Kelsey Grammer
Oprah, how have you defied the odds?
- [02:51]
Melinda French Gates
Her show is unlike any I've ever done.
- [02:54]
Unknown
A revelation. When you listen, it feels like a hug. But your brain and your spirit and your heart is like, wow.
- [03:02]
Jamie Kern Lima
Melinda French Gates.
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Oprah Winfrey
When I look into Jamie's eyes, I feel like I am on some other cosmic level with her.
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Unknown
I could see the light around her. She's infused with light.
- [03:14]
Jamie Kern Lima
Imagine overcoming self doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself and know you are enough. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima show.
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Unknown
Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life.
- [03:30]
Oprah Winfrey
Jamie Kern Lima.
- [03:35]
Kelsey Grammer
Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima on the topic of success leaves clues, right? Your perspective on the people that are maybe your opposition or don't believe in you or come against you. Some people would take that as like, oh, I'm never gonna make it, or they would take it as, you know, whatever, whatever. But do you think those things happen for you?
- [04:00]
Oprah Winfrey
Yes. This is that radical forgiveness thing that I think plays into it. Kate turned me onto it more than I'd been aware of it. But I was always aware that I might get hang dog once in a while and get some bad advice from somebody and go, never gonna do this. It's never gonna happen. Sort of shoot myself down there. But there's always that thing in me that goes like, get up. Cut it out. You know, get up and get on with it. And so wherever that comes from, maybe that's. But that's the kind of hairpin I am as well. This is the guy that says, okay, I'm going to show you something then, so God bless you. Thank you for, you know, for messing with me.
- [04:43]
Kelsey Grammer
I also feel like so many of the things that the opposition that comes against us, like, at least I think in my journey, so many rejections, so many nos, so many closed doors. I know in acting that's like a Tuesday, but in entrepreneurship, oh, my gosh, the number of nos. And I feel like I, through all of them, got strong enough to carry the weight of success. Because that also comes with a whole lot of stuff that, you know, it comes with a whole lot of other worries or problems or whatever. But I've always thought that, like, okay, you know, it's happening for me. And I used to pray. I used to thank God for the open doors and for the closed doors and just trust, like, trust that he'll block my value from people who aren't assigned to my destiny, you know, and, like, anytime someone would just, like, not believe in the company or Think I don't have what it takes or whatever. I'd be like, okay. Instead of being like, oh, this is never gonna happen for me, I'd be like, okay, God's blocking my value from them because they're not supposed to be my investor. They're not supposed to be my partner. They're not supposed to. I'm not supposed to go in that store right now or whatever it might be. And I feel like that perspective almost like how. Almost like the meaning we assign to it can change.
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Oprah Winfrey
I like that expression.
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Kelsey Grammer
Can change everything.
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Oprah Winfrey
Blocking my value.
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Kelsey Grammer
Yeah. So you. You praise your kids and profess your pride for each of them in this book. And you also say, in case they don't know this, which is quite possible, they can read it here.
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Oprah Winfrey
Yeah.
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Kelsey Grammer
Tell me more.
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Oprah Winfrey
Well, that came from a specific conversation I had with one of my kids about what it's like to be my daughter. And she actually had said at one point, she said, you know, I just always wanted to be known as something other than just your daughter. And I said, well, you are. You are known for that. And I recognized in that as sort of a plea about one's own identity. You know, it's like, I'm this person, and, yes, I bear your name, but I want to be known for what I am. And I get that. That's okay. I even applaud it. It's an interesting mix to be involved in a relationship with a one who was gone before, who happens to be your father, who has a reputation. And a reputation can, you know, cut in several ways, but it doesn't need to eclipse the person. And maybe I didn't know what to say to her, except. But if she does know I'm proud of her, then she can at least read it here. It was really quite a specific say, you know, you'll be able to say, you'll be able to look at this in the writing. Go, oh, oh, he does understand this was difficult. Oh, he does know that that's a challenge. Oh. And he is saying, thank you for wanting to be in this business and doing the things that, you know, following in your footsteps. It came out of that idea that, you know, it can't be easy. And so it was just a nod to saying, I get it. I'm still your dad. I love you, and, you know, off you go. You know, you still got to get pushed out of the nest and say, you know, you're on your own anyway, and you've done a good job.
- [08:04]
Kelsey Grammer
Mmm. Are you proud of all of your Kids.
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Oprah Winfrey
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I've had moments when I've thought, well, you know, we all can shine a light on a few things and say, you know, maybe you're gonna empower yourself more if you don't allow this thing to keep, you know, giving you hiccups. Because we all stub our toes and, you know, and I've stubbed mine several times. But it's nice if you have a relationship with someone who has actually gathered some wisdom beforehand to trust it. I used to say to another one of my children, I used to say all the time, say, you don't always have to learn by experience. You can learn by example. Just think about it. So I don't know if that's ever worked out, but I still think there's value in that.
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Kelsey Grammer
So many people, I think if they haven't maybe been exposed to this before, they just think like, oh, if you're the kid of someone famous, you just have it easy.
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Oprah Winfrey
Yeah. It's not the truth.
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Kelsey Grammer
Not the truth. No, no.
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Oprah Winfrey
I mean, some things might be easy. Maybe it grew up, you know, well cared for. Maybe it didn't. Maybe they're, you know, maybe they're self absolved, you know, self involved. I was gonna so and so's, I was gonna say a nastier word, but like. And that wasn't an easy ride. Maybe it was really a nightmare. You know, there's a lot of kids have been through stuff with big egos, people who've been through a lot of. I mean, because, you know, no matter how much success a certain person has had, there's going to be moments when that slides. I mean, unless you're maybe Paul McCartney, I just think everyone just adores him because there's a reason. But in so many cases, you know, the bloom leaves the rose, you know, whatever, and people are not so enchanted with what they do anymore. And that's a hard thing to slam into one day. And if they don't have real character, they can take it out on the people around them. And, I mean, I've been tempted to do that. I mean, there have been moments when I thought, why isn't this working out? And I do my best not to, you know, visit my children with it, but it may be that I'm not available a little bit sometimes when things aren't going so well. I'm not really sure. I try to be, but I think we, it's foolish for us to judge what we think is privilege or someone's good fortune and not realize that, you know, what maybe they deserve a little bit of good fortune in their lives, and I'm sure it came with at quite a price. Sometimes, you know, I think everybody gets there with their own nuance of damage, and that should be just respected. Everybody got here for a reason. Everybody has done well, deserves it, you know.
- [10:53]
Kelsey Grammer
What kind of dad would you say that they would say you are?
- [10:58]
Oprah Winfrey
Well, I think most of my kids would say, you know, I gave it a good try. I think that's what they'd say. I think my latest batch would probably say my latest batch. My children with Kate, we have three Faith, Gabe, and James. I think they would say dad's in it. Dad's in it with his whole heart. And I'm mostly fun. They are scared of me, which is interesting. I'll blow my top once in a while. And it's pretty interesting to see a young person just go. But that's usually kind of what you need them to do in that moment. Something has to be suspended. So I was given the gift of a great voice. I don't have to go, you know, slam a door too hard or do anything else to get attention. I've got a voice that is arresting, and that can usually stop people in their tracks. And a young person sometimes needs to be. My older kids. My eldest, Spencer, when she was born, I remember looking at her, looking at her little bassinet, thinking, oh, she's. She's her own person already. She came to. She kind of has something in mind. So I'm not sure what Spence would say about that. I know we've been in and out of one another's lives, but there's a profound love there, and that's what I can rely on. There's a profound love in the book. That's what I did it for. That's what I've done all this for. And so hopefully it will bear some fruit.
- [12:36]
Kelsey Grammer
There's, you know, with parenting, it's interesting. I grew up with parents that worked so, so much that I always thought, oh, I'm gonna be there all the time for my kids. And now I work so much, Kelsey. There's days I would rather work than do anything else. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. I'm, like, repeating this. And recently my daughter said to me, like, are you working again?
- [13:00]
Jamie Kern Lima
And she's six.
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Kelsey Grammer
And I'm like, oh, my gosh. And so I feel like every one of us is on this journey of how do I grow and how do I become, you know, I guess the highest Oprah would say the Highest, truest expression of ourselves. Right. And when we, you know, I think, I bet you there's not a single parent listening that can ever be like, oh, I did it all perfect. No, you know what I mean?
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Oprah Winfrey
Delusional. If you did.
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Kelsey Grammer
And I think, too, if we do it all perfect, then we raise kids that can't handle anything.
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Oprah Winfrey
Well, that's a really interesting thing. Yeah. This is as recent as I flew home from Texas after the first time. I actually celebrated the book with a group of other people two nights ago. And on the flight back, I thought, I wonder what it would be like to throw it all away now and choose the most courageous life I've ever lived and just be with my children. So it's still ongoing? It's still there because, yeah, they say I'm starting this beer company. I got to go away a lot for that. And I don't like going away, but I feel I'm drawn to do this. I feel like I'm supposed to do that and make that happen. But to live in true courage, I don't know, maybe it would just be, we're leaving L. A. We're going to go do something else. I don't know what that might be, but it would be to experience this life with them as a constant. I don't know if it's a right life example, though, either. I don't know if that would be the right thing to show them. So dad gave it all up for us, and then six years later, they're gonna go, I'm out. But that's what I want them to do. They need to do that. They need to find their thing. And they're already working on it. I mean, we shepherd them some, but also we're kind of just. We're there to help them have as safe a launch as possible.
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Kelsey Grammer
And also, what if. Yeah, maybe they're out in however many years, but also, what if it's for you and what if it's for you and Kate doing that?
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Oprah Winfrey
Yeah. Yeah.
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Kelsey Grammer
That's so wild you just said that. Because I have the same thoughts. You know I do. I think sometimes, like, I'll tell my husband, like, what if we just, you know, we'll just move here and like, I'll just like be home and not miss anything.
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Oprah Winfrey
Chuck, all this.
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Kelsey Grammer
Yeah, exactly. And I have those thoughts. Yeah. He would be so happy if I did that. Because, you know, we Both did like 100 hour weeks forever now. I'm still the one working this hard. And he's good. He runs our family Office. He does, you know, he works and he does all the things, but he would be, I think his fear is that I work too much. So I think like he would actually be so happy. But I actually have the same thoughts. I'm like, am I getting it wrong? Because also I don't know if you ever struggle with this, but I struggle with this like, because I know if you have creativity in you and it's unexpressed, it can express itself in other things in other ways that are not good. All the like it can. So it's like if, you know, if God put this in me and I'm. This was my offering creatively to the world.
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Oprah Winfrey
Yeah, you're supposed to, right?
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Kelsey Grammer
But at the same time, but at the same time I'm like, am I missing out on the things that actually matter? Because also when is it enough? Which is actually a question I have for you too is do you ever do you ever like struggle with that? Because you look at everything you've accomplished. I mean, you know, and I've had people say that to me, they're like, oh, you know, you've built this huge business, you've done this, you do that, these awards that, this, that. And then I ask myself, am I like, am I thinking I have to keep achieving to feel worthy? And so how do you reconcile that?
- [16:51]
Oprah Winfrey
It's interesting. The same battle is for me is.
- [16:54]
Jamie Kern Lima
We need to pause for a super brief break and while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire. Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today. To keep going, to remember that they matter and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected and more worthy.
- [17:18]
Melinda French Gates
I am so excited for this book.
- [17:20]
Jamie Kern Lima
You know why?
- [17:21]
Oprah Winfrey
Because it's going to sit save so many people. It's gonna so cool.
- [17:27]
Melinda French Gates
Worthy.
- [17:28]
Oprah Winfrey
Your new beautiful book.
- [17:30]
Unknown
Wor thee get this book?
- [17:32]
Melinda French Gates
This book. I'm telling you, it's a book that can change anybody's life who picks it up.
- [17:38]
Oprah Winfrey
Anybody who's ever felt that they were not good enough, didn't measure up. Something's missing in your life.
- [17:44]
Melinda French Gates
I have to tell you, it's powerful, it's happening, it's worthy.
- [17:49]
Jamie Kern Lima
Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you. I went from struggling waitress facing non stop rejection to founder of IT Cosmetics, a billion dollar company by learning how to overcome self doubt and believe I am worthy of my hopes and dreams. And I'm sharing how you can too in my new book, how to Believe. You are enough and transform. Transform your life. If you're ready to truly trust yourself and break through that barrier of self doubt and know that where you come from or even where you are right now doesn't determine where you're going, then Worthy is for you. It's time to go from doubting you're enough to knowing you're enough. It's time to step into all of who you are and into the person you were born to be. And it's time to believe that you are worthy of it. Because in life we don't become what we want. We become what we believe we're worthy of. Join the worthy movement today by grabbing your copy of Worthy anywhere books are sold then head to worthybook.com now for free gifts including my five part course on becoming unstoppable and my 90 page worthy workbook action plan that teaches you how to implement the tools from the book into your real life right now.
- [19:19]
Oprah Winfrey
Worthy is groundbreaking.
- [19:20]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yo Worthy.
- [19:22]
Kelsey Grammer
You are worthy.
- [19:23]
Oprah Winfrey
This book is going to change lives.
- [19:25]
Jamie Kern Lima
This book literally will teach you how.
- [19:27]
Kelsey Grammer
To actually feel worthy so that you can have the strength, you can have the confidence.
- [19:31]
Oprah Winfrey
The lessons in this book and the strategies will change your life. You will never be the same again. After you read this book.
- [19:37]
Unknown
Jamie's book Worthy is a must read. It is going to inspire you, empower you, give you the hope that you need and the kick in the rear end that you deserve.
- [19:48]
Jamie Kern Lima
Jamie's book Worthy is incredible. The gifts are going away, but they're all free right now on worthybook.com and now more of this incredible conversation together.
- [20:00]
Kelsey Grammer
Question I have for you too is do you ever do you ever like struggle with that? Because it's like you look at everything you've accomplished. I mean, you know, and I've had people say that to me, they're like, oh, you know, you've built this huge business, you've done this, you do that, these awards that, this, that. And then I ask myself, am I like, am I thinking I have to keep achieving to feel worthy? And so how do you reconcile that?
- [20:28]
Oprah Winfrey
It's interesting. The same battle is for me is did you leave anything sort of in the back room? Did you skip something as we got just this set of time, whatever it is. And that was the other question that came with it. But why haven't we had the balls to like go out and start a music career? You know, that's because I love music and that's the first thing that got me into this. Why did you step away from it? Why did you not just say, oh, I'm gonna go be a composer now? So I've still got. Still dancing in there, and I don't want to leave anything undone. So there is that other thing, but maybe that's. And I started thinking, so why don't I write a song with my kids? Why don't I do music with them? So, I don't know, would that be the courageous thing to do? I mean, maybe I should chuck all this and then go do. Spend my life in the studio with the kids. I don't know. These things just crop up. Because it's. To do what he's given unto you. It's like, well, I've got something there that I still think, oh, maybe I should be doing that. I've written a bunch of songs, and maybe somebody should hear them. You know, I don't know. I should have the true courage. But I've always talked myself out of it, thinking it wasn't quite good enough.
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Kelsey Grammer
Really.
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Oprah Winfrey
And there's. There's that old bugaboo with your music. Yeah. Yeah. You know, maybe. Maybe it's supposed to be sort of just a hobby. Yeah. I don't know. But it was the first thing that called to me when I was a kid, so that was the first thing that was.
- [22:07]
Kelsey Grammer
That surprises me, because it feels like on the outside that you've gone for everything else.
- [22:12]
Oprah Winfrey
Pretty much, I have. Yeah. There's the one thing that Maybe it's just too personal. I don't know. There's still that part that doesn't like to be told it wasn't good enough. Yeah. I don't know. So we'll see.
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Kelsey Grammer
So that's the one thing. And then also the. Do I go all in, scrap everything and just be fully immersed in family and then. Yeah, that's so wonderful.
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Oprah Winfrey
I think our. Well, yeah, it'd be neat to find that sort of family mission. That'd be kind of fun. But I'm okay. I feel like I'm doing all right, you know, that there's still more to try, more to explore and to cherish your children. I mean, I do cherish them. They're quite wonderful. Even in moments when I think, how can I help them? I'm at a loss a lot of the time. How can I actually help them without doing damage or. But, you know, I'm thinking that the movie Patton now, George C. Scott standing on the middle of a. There's a battle scene. He says, war, compared to all other human endeavors, shrinks to insignificance. You know, I mean, all other human endeavors shrink to insignificance in the face of war. And I thought, boy, that's. That's certainly warriors way of looking at things. But there's something to be said about it, something to be said for that. And of course, war is Satan's invention, and we're born here, we're born into. I mean, I've learned this lately, but we are born into a kind of warfare, and we have to fight for the good.
- [23:59]
Kelsey Grammer
What do you mean by that?
- [24:01]
Oprah Winfrey
It's a realm in which we are. We are assigned to come here and fight for our identity, fight for our freedoms, fight for our faith. It's not supposed to be for the faint of heart, even though Jesus tells us the meek shall inherit the earth. It's a hostile environment sometimes. And just another one of those sermons I heard where it said, you know, Jesus doesn't promise us an easy journey, just a safe landing. Yeah, I get it. Because you got to do your part, too.
- [24:51]
Kelsey Grammer
Do you ever struggle with how much of your real life to share publicly? When for in your professional life, you most often play different characters or, you know, you have a celebrity Persona. Do you ever feel like you have to hide anything? Or do you feel more like, this is who I am?
- [25:13]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah.
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Kelsey Grammer
And we should all be who we are.
- [25:15]
Oprah Winfrey
I don't. I don't tend to hide a lot, but there are certain things I won't just share with people because it's like too much information. But if I'm trying to impart, like, something that's honest, it has to be from me. It has to be the truth. You know, what I've observed, what I've thought about. I love the idea that if. And this took years to finally figure out, but lying is so uncomfortable. And once you start to lie, you have to remember it. And I don't like having to, like, be, what did I say? Exactly. So now I know that if I tell the truth in the moment, if anybody ever wants to call me up again, well, it was the truth. So it's gonna be the same story.
- [26:02]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah.
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Oprah Winfrey
And so it's a great way of sort of discarding the misery of trying to cover your, you know, whatever. Cover your tracks. Yeah. And then you don't have to. So that somebody says, oh, yeah, yeah, that's what you said 10 years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I'm honest.
- [26:20]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah.
- [26:22]
Oprah Winfrey
Writing truth in the book was very important to me to make sure that every bit was true. And as I. As do people, you know, people do offer, you know, interrogatories to me about the book or a certain section or something. I'll say, oh, that reminds me of something that's a little bit different. But then they'll say, yeah, that's what you said. Yeah. So I like not having to cover up. Yeah, it's okay.
- [26:44]
Kelsey Grammer
It's freeing.
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Oprah Winfrey
Yeah. And the acting question is, it was always a great gift to know it was the place where you didn't have to lie at all. Acting is, you know, the misconception being that actors are good liars. They aren't actually. They're only good if it sounds like they're telling the truth, which means they are telling the truth.
- [27:01]
Kelsey Grammer
Right.
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Oprah Winfrey
It's just with somebody else's mask who was given. It was given you by a writer or given you by a great. A great playwright or whatever. So you've got this veneer that allows you to tell the truth, the absolute truth, to be completely uncovered. Because if you aren't, then it's going to feel like you're not doing a.
- [27:17]
Kelsey Grammer
Very good job, you know, with. With all this stuff about, like, who you are and being out there in the public and all this stuff. You're really. You've been maybe more so lately, I don't know, but you've been sharing a lot of your views publicly, you know, like, about faith and about politics and everything else. I saw at Mar A Lago, like, there's pictures everywhere.
- [27:42]
Oprah Winfrey
Oh, yeah, yeah. We went down and there was. It was a fundraiser for dogs.
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Kelsey Grammer
A fundraiser for dogs? Yeah. Okay.
- [27:49]
Oprah Winfrey
Kimberly Guilfoyle was there, though, and she's, you know, she's sort of the. The chair of it for this particular event. So we took the kids and we had a nice time. It was. It was lovely. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, I've been a conservative. I've been a conservative for a long time in. In Hollywood.
- [28:04]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah.
- [28:05]
Oprah Winfrey
You know, it's just my core values are basically are live and let live, and I think that's what the conservative message is. And, you know, some people might disagree with me, but the other guys, lately, it tends to be, you know, you will live as you're told. And that just closes out of town for me.
- [28:22]
Kelsey Grammer
Well, you're like, you. Maybe. Maybe I have this wrong. I'm just talking as a regular person on the outside. I don't know if it's just more lately, but, yeah, I see you in the. Kind of. In the press and online and stuff. More active with politics.
- [28:35]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah. There's a part of me that thought maybe I'm supposed to do something in that world. Maybe that's coming up. Maybe I'm old enough now to kind of maybe handle that and do it without too much ego and really try to do the world some good. Maybe that's the place that I'm being pulled. I don't know.
- [28:53]
Kelsey Grammer
Do you feel that?
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Oprah Winfrey
I have in my past, but it's a big commitment. But you want to do the world some good and you want to save people. And this is all about saving people in the end. And I think that might be a direction. I don't know.
- [29:12]
Kelsey Grammer
Do you think you'll run for office?
- [29:13]
Oprah Winfrey
I don't know. It's circling back. I rejected it 20 years ago, and then I.
- [29:20]
Kelsey Grammer
Maybe, maybe, maybe.
- [29:22]
Oprah Winfrey
We'll see.
- [29:23]
Kelsey Grammer
Maybe. So when you're at Mar a Lago, I think you spoke out about your support of Donald Trump in his first election.
- [29:32]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah, I did, yeah. A lot of what Donald Trump was saying just aligned more with what I think about the direction a government should take, that it should be for the people. I do believe he means that. And so that's in demonstration. I've seen that. That's what a lot of politicians say. But the people yelling and screaming about, you know, money and stuff like that tend to be politicians. And I'm thinking, why are you so upset? What is it you're losing? Why are you a rich person in Congress? I have real issues about that. I think if you go. If you can go to Washington, rich, fine. But if you got rich being in Washington, you should be out. Adios. You know, it was designed to be. You go for one term as a congressman, one, some guy from the neighborhood goes for two years and comes back and some other guy goes, or gal, whatever, whomever, and you don't stay there and you go be a senator. Great. Go for six years. Maybe you're a little wiser. Maybe you're a little bit older. You know, the energy of Congress, of the House of Representatives, is immediate in the moment and what people need right then. And the senators are meant to say, well, let's slow down a little bit. Let's think about it. And maybe that's a good idea, maybe it isn't. Maybe we need to balance it with this. Okay, that made sense to me. You get to stay for one term and George Washington stayed for two. That was it. Executive branch, a little guidance. Yeah, you can appoint judges for a lifetime because that's what they're good at. Okay. And they balance it in terms of squaring things with the originalist, the originalist vision. Of what it is. And that's all for the people. And if you really. But yeah, I walked into Washington, D.C. recently for a fundraiser for the dedication of the World War I monument. And it's a beautiful, beautiful piece. Took them over 100 years to do it, but to get one there. And they've done other monuments for other wars that. Celebrating the sacrifice. But when I walked, I took five minutes to walk from the hotel I was in to go over to where the presentation was being made. Three people in five minutes walked up to me and handed me a card and said, hi, I'm a lobbyist. I just thought, you do not belong here. I mean, I have some real issues about it. I don't like it. I don't. Whenever the car turns off and I'm standing still at a red light, I'm thinking, what congressman got this passed? What guy's making money on this? Because somebody got paid to do this? Because when I grew up, they said, if your car stops and restarts all the time, you're just spending more fuel. So I thought, who conned them into thinking this is saving money? Why do we have 10% corn fuel in our gasoline? Who from the Corn Belt made some money on that? So I look on big government as with a real, you know, jaundiced eye.
- [32:40]
Kelsey Grammer
Do you feel like, too, if you went to Washington, having already had success, you would be less likely to be swayed by anything?
- [32:49]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's. I think there's definitely a. There's an older man's game in Washington, D.C. that I think needs to be played. Well, wisdom being the important asset that you would bring. But if you're worried about. Yeah. If there's something on the table, if there's a kickback coming, I mean, I just, we are finding out, of course, now through a lot of people that there's some stuff been going on that isn't good. And I'm very glad that Donald Trump is there at this point, sort of engineering, at least an uncovering of that, whether or not we're going to cover it all back up and go back to it. I fear that that might happen, but I do fear that that's the end of the US I don't want that to happen.
- [33:46]
Kelsey Grammer
In what way?
- [33:49]
Oprah Winfrey
We can't afford what we're doing. Nobody can be that, you know, nobody can be that corrupt and continue. We are not meant to. If that's what we're doing with the money we're making, if that's what we're doing and it's actually coming back to the government. It's actually feeding those guys. No, it's supposed to be selfless. Selfless. And to volunteer to make sure we're saving the people. Save the people of the United states, not Washington, D.C. that's my two cents.
- [34:19]
Kelsey Grammer
When you talk about senators and you talk about, you know, how long people are in Washington, there's so much talk about, like, should a president ever be able to do more than two terms?
- [34:32]
Oprah Winfrey
Well, only, only FDR thought he was worth it. And everybody else by just voluntarily just said no. But it's two. Because Washington set the precedent. George Washington was pretty much the greatest American who ever lived. There's still no question about it. And it was always about, like, when he gave up his sword, when he said, when he resigned his commission in the military, when he said, no, the leader of the country should not be a member of the military. That's inappropriate. These things that came from his sense of conviction were passed on to us as a country. And that was a great, great gift.
- [35:11]
Kelsey Grammer
When George Washington, too, and like having such absolute power, but then saying, oh, I'm actually, this is what's best for the country, for someone else to step in, not for someone to. Absolutely, yeah.
- [35:22]
Oprah Winfrey
Fresh blood.
- [35:23]
Kelsey Grammer
Do you. If. So I have to ask you this, because if I didn't ask you, this will be the thing everyone's thinking right now. So I'm just going to ask it to you. It's just all over the news right now. But if, if Trump says that he wants a third term, would you support that? No, no, no.
- [35:40]
Oprah Winfrey
It's not what we do. Yeah, I was in shock. I mean, I'm still in shock that Franklin Roosevelt was elected for a third term. I guess it was a wartime thing. I don't know. I thought that was really irresponsible.
- [35:52]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah.
- [35:53]
Oprah Winfrey
I still look at it. It's like, what were you doing? What did you think about yourself that you thought that was something you should do? I still have questions for him. I'd like to ask him one day. Maybe I will.
- [36:04]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah, you will. So when you say too, that you think that you support Donald Trump, obviously over half the country agrees with you. And do you feel like he's doing a good job?
- [36:15]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah, actually, I do.
- [36:19]
Kelsey Grammer
I think what's so fascinating to me is when you walk into Washington or you're driving your car and it shuts off and starts, or you're in Mar a Lago, that you have the, I guess, would you call them whispers that you could do a good job in.
- [36:33]
Oprah Winfrey
That role, Honestly, I don't know. When I was a little boy, I wanted to be the president.
- [36:38]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah.
- [36:39]
Oprah Winfrey
When I was a kid, I used to say to my mom I wanted to grow up to be president, but I was taught that's the kind of country we live in. Any kid can become president if they believe in it. And I still believe that's basically true. When we were talking earlier, I was talking about the American dream. The American dream is a given. It's there. What I don't like hearing from my politicians is it's over. The American dream's over. I said, well, how did we get to that place? Why would you want to lower our expectations that much that you're now saying to me? Well, we can't give you that, but what we can give you is we can make sure that somebody else's dream is smaller. I don't care for that.
- [37:14]
Kelsey Grammer
You know, you're so convicted in your beliefs and your values. You talk about this in Karen, which is out now. I love understanding. Understanding also the humans that make up humanity. I think people are so scared right now to share how they feel or what they believe or. You know, I think, like, people have been. I think. I think for the past, I would say, at least five to 10 years, teachers have been scared to share how they feel in the classroom. And people have been scared that they're gonna say the wrong thing or get something wrong or be accused of something that they totally didn't intend to do. And I think everyone's just walking around on eggshells. And in the book, I really feel like we're with you and we're. And we understand you and understand your thoughts and what you believe. And you talk a lot about your values in there, too. You know, you talk about. I think it was six months before Karen passed when you were with a girlfriend and we had an abortion. You had an abortion.
- [38:09]
Oprah Winfrey
Broke my heart. My heart is broken about it to this day.
- [38:15]
Kelsey Grammer
At the time. Has your. Has its impact on you changed over time or the meaning you see it as changed over time versus when you're 18?
- [38:28]
Oprah Winfrey
When I was 18, I just. I didn't think I had any rights. I didn't think I had any right to say anything. And that was. You know, that's concurrent with a lot of the way people think a lot today. But if two people are involved in creating a child, then I think maybe two people should be involved in whether or not they're going to make that choice to take the life, to end it, or to embrace it and say, okay, we're going to do this, we made this together. I think all things, the most important thing about connecting sexually with someone is to understand that you have consequences that you can either avoid or not avoid. But you need to know going in that you, you're making a decision that might actually have life changing consequences. And I think we should tease her. There was a great special on years ago that I saw a documentary about three boys were set in a room and they played recordings of the same thing that eight girls were, were saying and they just listened to them and the question was, who's the most attractive girl? And the three boys identified almost all and there were I think two girls that were the most attractive girls to them. Those two girls were ovulating. No one could quite figure that out. But that's a very powerful thing about life and the way this whole thing was designed. So a girl who was ready to be impregnated was to them sounded like the most attractive person. That's a power that a young man needs to be advised about to understand that you are in the dance as this energy that's responding to the imperative to procreate, that's saying you want to procreate. If you don't want to, do not have sex. Now we've gone against that, we've gone against that a lot in terms of, you know, our, the society as we played it out. These days kids should have sex, you go out and have it, but there's a consequence there. And so I just think we should teach our boys that, well, maybe you should be responsible about it. You know, we don't. But it has changed a bit now. It's, well, you can always just go take care of it after the fact rather than be a gentleman before the fact, which is either you don't do certain things, you experiment with other things, you put on a condom, you behave like a gentleman and you don't put yourself in that position. A lot of people don't seem to think that's worth teaching anymore. And I don't know why. Look, you know, everybody's entitled to their way of thinking about it, but I just think why would you make a series of choices that has to end that way when you know you can actually make better choices? I guess my advice would be make better choices. You know what I mean? Who wants to have to have that on their head? Who actually goes through life thinking, oh, that's what I want to do.
- [41:40]
Kelsey Grammer
Do you still think about it about when you were 18?
- [41:43]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah, I wrote about it?
- [41:46]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah. I would never ask you, but you chose to. It's in the book.
- [41:49]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah. No, I wrote about it. I mean, I'm sitting there and it came from Karen. We were sitting there and I was writing about being in Gordon's hospital room. And then Karen came in and said, you have to take care of something. You need to clean something up, purge something. She said, leave us together with Gordon for now and go back to New York with Jill.
- [42:14]
Kelsey Grammer
Wow.
- [42:15]
Oprah Winfrey
It's all in there.
- [42:16]
Kelsey Grammer
So you revisited it for that reason?
- [42:17]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah. Yeah.
- [42:20]
Kelsey Grammer
And you're very clear how you feel about it in the book.
- [42:23]
Oprah Winfrey
It's been on my mind, been on my heart, sat on my heart for a long time. Yeah.
- [42:29]
Kelsey Grammer
For you to talk about your own experience with it, how it's impacted you emotionally, how you feel. Now, today I have friends that are very pro choice and friends that are very pro life, and they have. Many of them have had abortions. And I watch now I'm 47, and I've been in conversations where they've been in therapy about it and dealing with it in very different ways. And sometimes the way you might feel about it in one phase of life changes and into another phase of life, and why I wanted to bring it up is this isn't something people talk about. So when I think about the number of people that are going to be listening or watching right now that have had this experience as well, and maybe they've never told anybody, not even their partner, nobody, but they're dealing with it internally. I just want to call this out because I think that the journey that the reader is going to go on in your book, I think, yes, it's this honoring of a joy and light that is your sister Karen. It's your own journey to where you're at now with it and with your relationship with her in your life. But it's also the reader's journey and their own personal life.
- [43:44]
Oprah Winfrey
It is my hope that when people read what I've written and exposed and uncovered about my own life, I wanted to actually comfort any woman, any mother who's lost a child, anyone who's lost a child. Everybody that's been through what we're talking about here has experienced a loss. Whether or not they want to acknowledge it or fight it, or they're angry about it or angry that someone would say, you know, I don't look down my nose at anybody that's had an abortion. I don't. I feel sad about it. For people where before I used to think, well, yeah, of Course, you have the right to do whatever you want to do with your body. I do believe that the consequences of another body being stopped from. From living is always, you know, consequence. War, warfare, abortion. They all ask the same question, did I do the right thing? And I think a lot of people struggle with it, and my heart goes out to them. I mean, this is not a condemnation book either. It's not a grief book. It's also not a condemnation book. It's. We are left with it sometimes. It's, you know, we wrestle with it as a society, and I wouldn't give us much of a chance at all if we weren't wrestling with it. I haven't talked about this. The moment I went with Jill, this is some time ago, of course, there were four guys sitting in there. Nobody was happy. No guy was happy there. And then one of the girls came out who was. Had just finished her procedure, and she sort of hopped out and said, well, that's taken care of. And it was just. There was like a collective moment of what seemed like deep sadness between these four young men who were on a journey that they didn't mean to be on, you know, and nobody feels good about ending a life. I don't think they do. So, you know, that's my. That's where I come from. And the consequence of, you know, what we do to ourselves. We haunt ourselves with these ideas that maybe. My action took my sister's life. That was. That was horrible. I did go through that for a while, and I dismissed it, you know, because like I said in the book, I said, God doesn't do it tit for tat that way. It doesn't actually work that way. Only man would think of that. And that's, you know, that's the enemy who's, you know, always out there, too. You got to remember that the enemy is present to invade our thoughts, to invade our lives, to kill our minds with doubt and fear. And you mentioned, you know, so much fear going on. I'm reading a book right now, Power Positive Thinking. Norman Vincent peale, published in 51, 52, something like that. And there's a whole. I just came upon a section where it said, the primary thing right now is to keep people in fear. 1950, whatever. It's been going on for a long time. This is the warfare that we're born into. Fear. And fear is the mind killer. Fear is the soul killer. That's how you get in there. There's. There I go again.
- [47:05]
Kelsey Grammer
I want to cost some that you just said to you because I wondered this when I read the book and I wasn't going to ask you this, you know, but I wondered.
- [47:14]
Jamie Kern Lima
We need to pause for a super brief break and while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire. Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter, and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected and more worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration. Which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week and just go to jamiekernlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one on one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy and love hitting your inbox. I'm your girl. Subscribe@jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show Notes do you struggle with negative self talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful and when you learn to take control over your self talk, it's life changing and I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that you could benefit your Life. It's called 5 Ways to Overcome Negative Self Talk and Build self Love and it's a free how to guide to overcome that negative self talk to build confidence and develop unshakable self love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals. Don't let self sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script and of your life, one filled with self love, resilience and unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams. You can grab your free guide to Stop Overthinking and learn to Trust yourself at jamiekernlima.com resources or click the link in the show notes below. And now more of this incredible conversation together.
- [50:04]
Kelsey Grammer
I own a costume. Something that you just said, too, because I wondered this when I read the book. And I wasn't going to ask you this, you know, but I wondered. And so you're sharing that a little bit about this, and I guess you talk a little bit about it, but our humanness wants to think that if something bad happened to us in our life, it's our fault or it's because we did something and now this is karma. Or we did something and now God's punishing us. And. And when you just mentioned that. That having an abortion at age 18, then six months later, this tragedy happens with the loss of your sister's life. And so when did you have those thoughts? Like, oh, is this because of what I did? Was that like, was that speedy? Instantly?
- [50:54]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah.
- [50:55]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah. You said, God is not tit for tat. No, no, that's the end.
- [51:00]
Oprah Winfrey
That other guy is. It reminds me, too, of another thing. This is the way life goes for me. I see these things, that Twilight Zone thing where the guy is walking along, he's died. He goes to the pearly gates and he's got his dog with him. And he says, is this it? And St. Peter says, yeah, yeah, come on in. He said, my dog can come. He says, so, oh, well, then. Oh, that's okay. Then I think I'll just keep walking a bit. So he keeps walking. He takes his dog with him and comes along another set of gates, and he says, what's this? He says, St. Peter says, welcome. Really? I can come out and bring a dog, too? He says, yeah, of course. He said, well, a fellow down the road said he was St. Peter. He said, I couldn't bring my dog. And he said, oh, that's the other place. Yeah, that's the other guy does that.
- [51:57]
Kelsey Grammer
Isn't it wild that it's everywhere now? Whether you're a politician or. I mean, I have friends call me all the time, or people reaching out online for advice because, you know, they're a lawyer, they didn't want a public profile ever. They're a doctor. They didn't want a public profile. But now they're. Everything's online. And then they get reviews on these sites and they don't even know who's writing those reviews. And then it's just like everything now. I almost feel like you and I feel like you can barely. Like, if you do anything at all, it's going to come.
- [52:27]
Jamie Kern Lima
With so much criticism in 2025.
- [52:30]
Kelsey Grammer
And I feel like, you know, I think about growing up when someone was mad about something, they wrote a letter, and maybe someone saw that letter. Now it's like, you know, spews out there. Do you remember, like, even, you know, there would be food critics and they'd, you know, built trust for decades with their craft to write a review of a restaurant. And now it's sort of like everyone is. You know, it's interesting.
- [52:55]
Oprah Winfrey
There's a guy. There was a. There was a critic. John Simon was his name. He wrote. He began writing maybe in the mid-70s and through maybe 2000. And he was so mean, personally mean to people, actors that he didn't like. He just called them fat or, you know, you're disgusting. And it became entertaining to see what. What nastiness he would conjure up the next in his next review. But it became. It became stylish to write that way. He set a new kind of style that maybe was born out of the 70s. Maybe it was born out of what was going on in the 80s. I don't really know what happened, but it became. It became the norm. It became the norm to be mean to people. And I thought that's. It was just. It was such a wrong turn, I think, and I do sort of put it at his feet. I mean, you know, theater critics are known for being sort of, you know, no turn unstoned. You know, that was sort of one of their. One of their things. Yeah. But to do it charmingly. The British are a little bit better about doing it charmingly. This guy was directly personal and nasty. And I thought, boy, that really changed things. To dial back on one thing, about a year and a half ago, somebody said, if you were president, what would you do differently? What would you want to do? I said I would ask that we become a nation of good manners again. I just think we need to treat each other better, speak better to one another, honorifically, respect each other. Whether we come from different sides and. And just reinstate mannerly behavior. Even in our kids, you know, shoes off the couch. You know, my wife always points out, she says she watches Disney shows where the kids jump up and down on a bed with their shoes on. I'm thinking, yeah, you're right. That's awful. How did we let that happen? But it's like there was a whole generation that was sort of broken into this idea that you just treat everything you have with disrespect. But if you respect nothing, you won't. You certainly won't respect yourself somehow.
- [54:58]
Kelsey Grammer
This thing has happened, and I feel like even more so in the past couple years now that so much is online where you're, like, vilified if you're around someone who believes different than you do or votes different or loves different or identifies different, whatever it might be. And it's like people just get. And I just feel like, what makes me. And now I have, you know, I have five families I adopted. It's a whole long story. But there's times where people can't talk about politics or Thanksgiving will end. And it's interesting that I just feel like if we have a shot at healing humanity through love, you can't do that if you don't understand the humans that make it up. And if you only spend time around people who believe what you believe, how can you ever help heal humanity? Humanity? And one of the things I'm most proud of just in my life, in my family, on this show, is just really extending not only the good manners.
- [55:58]
Jamie Kern Lima
But just love, actual love.
- [56:01]
Oprah Winfrey
Love's the king.
- [56:01]
Kelsey Grammer
Whether someone believes what you believe or don't or any of that, because it's like, how else are we going to.
- [56:07]
Oprah Winfrey
Ever love them for the opposition?
- [56:09]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.
- [56:11]
Oprah Winfrey
Well, I'll circle back to the book. I talk about that thing. There was a restaurant nearby where one of the places I live that said hate is not welcome here. I thought, well, you just said to people that you don't welcome hate, but you've written it all over your restaurant. How about love is invited? Love is welcome here. Instead of this hate thing, I thought, well, okay, whatever your reason is, but if you're in the thrall of hatred, if you are in its charming way, you will never do anything but pave yourself the road to destruction. Hate will kill you.
- [56:49]
Kelsey Grammer
All the data proves this. It's like if you go around looking for what's wrong in everyone else, you're also so much more likely to only see what's wrong in yourself. And that is not very fun, because I'll speak for myself. There's a lot wrong with me. So, like, it's so. But. But it's so contagious where you can sit with somebody even if. Whether you totally agree on everything or you don't, whatever, and you, like, just.
- [57:11]
Jamie Kern Lima
See the beauty in them.
- [57:13]
Kelsey Grammer
It's like you are so much more likely to see the beauty in yourself. And, like, when you see God in them, just all of it, it's just like. It's sort of like the secret to. It's a Secret to success in many ways, or at least to a lot more happiness in life. You know, it's not very fun to. And like, I just feel so bad for people right now that spend all their time, like, attacking everyone online because it's like, that's just, just such a, you know, energies can be so contagious.
- [57:38]
Oprah Winfrey
Can't be a nice way to live.
- [57:40]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah.
- [57:40]
Kelsey Grammer
Not a very nice way to live today. What brings you the most joy, kids?
- [57:47]
Oprah Winfrey
Kate. It's kind of it. That's. That's it. Maybe that's why I said living in true courage would be just to be live to live my life with them. I have to live my life too, though. You know, you got to do one or the other and, you know, take, you know, put the mask on yourself first before you put it on the kid, you know.
- [58:06]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah. Seeing you both walk in, though, both you and Kate, you and I are meeting for the first time.
- [58:12]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah. And so I'm off on another track all of a sudden. Kirstie Alley, when I was going to do my first appearance on the Tonight Show.
- [58:20]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah.
- [58:20]
Oprah Winfrey
Kirstie Alley said, oh, just go on and play a character. Just, just go, you know, just make up something and just have fun. And I. And I thought, okay, I get it. And she was kind of like that. She was like. She was always sort of entertaining. Kirsty was, you know, keep a lot of hats in the air. You can't spot you, you know, and she was such, such a wonderful person and so funny. But when she said, I thought to myself, I don't think I have the energy to be able to do that. I think I just have to be able to be honest. So that's what I've always been. I've been as honest as I can be. Once in a while, I'll watch an appearance and think, oh, well, well, did I do that right? It doesn't really matter because I didn't do it. I didn't dissemble. At least, you know, I didn't have to cover myself in any way. So it's easier. If there's some specific question I'm not comfortable with, I won't answer it.
- [59:07]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [59:08]
Oprah Winfrey
Then you're okay. Okay. That was it. I'm sorry.
- [59:10]
Kelsey Grammer
It feels like freedom when you're yourself. And so many people wonder. This is just my theory on this. And there is data that backs this up, but there's so many people that wonder why they feel lonely or why they feel disconnected or why they feel all these things, but yet so many of us, we're people pleasers. Or we show up as our representative or the person we think we need to be to, like, ace this thing or sit in the boardroom or wear the lab coat or whatever it might be. And it's like all the data says, when we show up as our representative, it's not who you fully, truly are. It's, like, impossible to have a true connection with another person in real life. Interesting versus when you're just like this, you know, because how can you be loved if you're your representative? Like, how can you feel that true? I guess. Back to the quantum entanglement keynote, where it's like the essence exchange, right? Like the exchange of essence. And then you have that connection.
- [60:06]
Oprah Winfrey
What are they falling in love with? If you're misrepresenting who you are, you know, if you're playing out something you think is more attractive. I mean, we all try to be attractive. I get that. But what are you offering? You know, is it a sham? So you don't really want it to be? Yeah, but, you know, I think what's interesting is there's a willingness now to open up to the idea that, yeah, you represent who you are. And you. And you are. If you have a conservative bent, you're okay. That seems to be circulating more now than ever before. And that's kind of a nice thing.
- [60:44]
Kelsey Grammer
I get so angry about this. But, you know, so. So. Because I just feel. Kelsey, I feel like the quickest way to dull ourselves down is to not be open and not be so curious and to not want to understand. And by the way, this is just my opinion, but anyone in Hollywood who wants to make money on their film and wants all the things, I feel like I'll just. I'll just speak for myself. I feel like by the time I made it on qvc, where I was able to share our products with. I mean, they QVC broadcast live to 100 million homes. I felt like what came with me to that moment was all of my experience of understanding all different kinds of people, because that's who my customer is. That's who's watching. It's every type of person, whether they're Republican or Democrat, whether they're, you know, whatever their background. And, like, I remember. I remember praying before my first airing, and I remember thinking, like, what's coming with me is my five families. And by the way, they're very divided politically. They have so many different experiences. My days waitressing tables. And I feel like our steps are ordered in life. I feel like by the time I got my one shot on qvc, I felt like I knew who was at home because I felt like I had had enough life experience to understand whether she felt this way or that way or da da, da. Like, I felt like I was able to understand to the best of my ability at that point, all kinds of women that were gonna buy this product. And so it's like, when I think about Hollywood or any profession, I would want to understand and have a team made up of different kinds of people, even if in the past they don't bring on conservative leaning or whatever. It's like, if you're gonna understand your audience watching this movie and you're gonna like, you want to understand humans. You want to like, have that insight, whether you're a writer, a director, a producer.
- [62:35]
Oprah Winfrey
And I would never. I would never close the door on another person's gifts or talents because I think they might not agree with me on something.
- [62:43]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah, that's just.
- [62:44]
Oprah Winfrey
That's pathetic.
- [62:46]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah. Well, when you produce and when you do things, do you bring on people no matter their political views? No matter.
- [62:52]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah, it doesn't even cross my mind.
- [62:53]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah. Yeah.
- [62:54]
Oprah Winfrey
So if someone has exposed themselves as being a narrow minded person, I might find that unattractive and say, I'd rather work with somebody else. But that's a whole different thing. That's a very specific thing.
- [63:10]
Kelsey Grammer
Okay. Something exciting that was just announced that you're playing Beast in Doomsday. Can you tell us just about that? And how long are you in makeup?
- [63:21]
Oprah Winfrey
Oh, well.
- [63:21]
Kelsey Grammer
And just like the whole thing, they.
- [63:23]
Oprah Winfrey
Do it differently now. Oh, I mean, it's, it's. When I did beast 20 years ago.
- [63:26]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah.
- [63:28]
Oprah Winfrey
I had three and a half hours to get into it.
- [63:30]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah.
- [63:31]
Oprah Winfrey
And I'd sit around a long time and, you know, sort of like this. I'd watch golf, whatever. And then finally I'd get called to set and they were throwing flying, you know, burning cars across the scene. It was a lot of fun. But I love the character. I love his. He is a stalwart, upright, serious minded, decent man. And that's what I love about him. I think of him as being the Martin Luther King of the Mutants. You know, he's just got a dignity and a dream and is willing to fight for it. But slow to action in terms of fighting. He will always find every way he can not to have to fight. And then when it's the last possible response, then it's swift and severe. You know, give no quarter, expect none. And I like that about him. I Feel like it's who I am. And so when I got the chance to play the play Beast the first time, I thought, wow, this is really. I love this guy. And so I want to play. I've always wanted to play him again. We did a cameo appearance in the Marvels about. I guess it came out almost two years ago now, and the response was pretty. Pretty big, pretty, pretty positive. And like, oh, my God, it's Beast. You know, it's. They did the. You know, they had the younger guy come on and play Beast for a couple, and I was a little crestfallen over that. I thought, oh, gee whiz. But this is. I'm really looking forward to it because I think he's a man of real stature, and that's what I intend to bring to him of ethical conduct. He's a man who studies good and does his best to live by that, and I like that.
- [65:22]
Kelsey Grammer
You know what's so interesting, just about our conversation to me, is I've watched you tear up talking about your sister, your wife, Kate, your kids, and then just now about Beast, about how much you care about that role. I was not expecting this. I'm watching your whole eyes change right now.
- [65:42]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah, I like him. It's always. It's a great thing to be able to play someone you like. You know, it's cool. I think he's a. He's a standout character.
- [65:58]
Kelsey Grammer
That's probably why fans reacted so exciting that you're doing the role, because, like, it's so clear.
- [66:05]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah, he's the guy. He's the guy. He's the guy you'd want working for you. He's the guy you'd want to be in. The position he's in.
- [66:16]
Kelsey Grammer
What does it mean to you?
- [66:18]
Oprah Winfrey
You know, goodness is the key to life. Love is the way.
- [66:29]
Kelsey Grammer
Love is the way. For someone listening right now who's like, oh, is the book Karen for me? What would you say to them?
- [66:41]
Oprah Winfrey
Yes, I would say you will discover yourself again, I think, because I think the things I learned as a boy are pretty universal. And you will discover a magnificent young woman that you wish you'd known. But now you do. Yeah.
- [67:05]
Kelsey Grammer
And what a journey to discover yourself again also.
- [67:09]
Oprah Winfrey
Thank you.
- [67:09]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah, thank you.
- [67:10]
Oprah Winfrey
I'm glad I came.
- [67:11]
Kelsey Grammer
I didn't even know if you'd laugh that I got you cocktail onions because of our input. I love cocktail onions.
- [67:17]
Jamie Kern Lima
And you opened them and you're already eating them.
- [67:19]
Oprah Winfrey
Absolutely perfect.
- [67:20]
Kelsey Grammer
That is a first on the Jamie Kerr and Lima Show. That is a first. Very cool.
- [67:25]
Oprah Winfrey
I did read the book aloud. I've recorded it now.
- [67:28]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah.
- [67:29]
Oprah Winfrey
Kate actually said. I said, honey, aren't you gonna read the book? And she said, I'm really excited to read it as soon as you record it. I think that's why she's gonna enjoy it. But I realized as I read it that you'll fill in more blanks if you. If you don't listen to me reading it. And I don't want to influence people not to, but I'd really like them to read it as well as maybe listen to it, because you're going to have a more personalized journey with me out of the way than the recording will give you.
- [68:01]
Kelsey Grammer
Oh, interesting.
- [68:02]
Oprah Winfrey
I hate to say that about myself, but I really think the words are. They just are. So. Words are so interesting that they work inside your head, and when I say them, I've sort of forced you to think of them a certain way.
- [68:17]
Kelsey Grammer
Interesting.
- [68:18]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah. So I would recommend doing both.
- [68:21]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah. A lot of people love that. They'll have the book and they'll listen to the audio while they're reading and they feel like it just, like, is a whole visceral experience.
- [68:29]
Oprah Winfrey
There's a chemistry that happens with you and the written word.
- [68:32]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah.
- [68:33]
Oprah Winfrey
It's just deeply personal.
- [68:35]
Jamie Kern Lima
Remember, this episode's not just for. For you and me. Please share this with every single person that you know, because it can change their life, too. And if you love today's episode, please.
- [68:45]
Kelsey Grammer
Click on the follow or subscribe button.
- [68:47]
Jamie Kern Lima
For the show on the app that you're listening or watching it on, give it a five star rating or review. And again, please share it with everyone you believe in. Share it with another person in your.
- [68:57]
Kelsey Grammer
Life who could benefit from it.
- [68:58]
Jamie Kern Lima
Maybe they're going through grief, too. Post it and share it with others online or in your community who just.
- [69:04]
Kelsey Grammer
Might need the words and.
- [69:06]
Jamie Kern Lima
And tools and lessons in this episode today. You never know whose life you're meant.
- [69:11]
Kelsey Grammer
To change today by sharing this episode.
- [69:14]
Jamie Kern Lima
And thank you so much for joining me today. Before you go, I want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. And it is an honor to welcome you to each and every episode of the Jamie Kern Lima show here. I hope you'll come as you are, heal where you need, blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling, and stay as long as you like, because you belong here. You are worthy. You are loved. You are love.
- [69:55]
Kelsey Grammer
I love you.
- [69:56]
Jamie Kern Lima
And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jami Kern Lima show. Oh, my gosh.
- [70:03]
Kelsey Grammer
You know that journey to believe you're actually worthy of something. Oprah, how have you defied the odds?
- [70:11]
Melinda French Gates
Her show is unlike any I've ever done.
- [70:14]
Unknown
A revelation. When you listen, it feels like a hug. But your brain and your spirit and your heart is like, wow.
- [70:22]
Jamie Kern Lima
Imagine overcoming self doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself and know you are enough. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima show. Imagine stepping into all of who you are and into the person you were born to be. Unstoppable. Hi, I'm Jamie Kern Lima. And I went from struggling waitress facing non stop rejection to building a billion dollar company from my living room. And it's not because I'm smarter than anyone else. I didn't have the right connections, but I figured out how to believe in myself and how to believe my dreams are possible and believe that I'm worthy of them. And what I know for sure is that you are too.
- [71:12]
Melinda French Gates
Fresh. We'll make you cry. We'll make you laugh. We'll make you think. We'll make you feel.
- [71:21]
Oprah Winfrey
The greatest life lesson I have ever received.
- [71:24]
Melinda French Gates
You're not going to forget how you feel after each and every episode.
- [71:30]
Unknown
Jamie Kern Lima is an angel walking on earth.
- [71:34]
Melinda French Gates
You hear me? You're going to be given those things that you can apply right now to your life.
- [71:48]
Kelsey Grammer
The James Lee show, writer by the day.
- [71:53]
Oprah Winfrey
So the moment with the.
- [71:57]
Melinda French Gates
I have never talked about this before, but I'm going to talk about it with you.
- [72:03]
Unknown
Your brain and your spirit and your heart is like, wow. Oh, my gosh. It's one revelation after another.
- [72:12]
Melinda French Gates
But when the most important person in your life sees you and hears you, that is the greatest gift.
- [72:21]
Oprah Winfrey
That is the greatest gift.
- [72:24]
Unknown
Sharing things that they would not discuss with anyone else.
- [72:27]
Melinda French Gates
I surrender. I surrender.
- [72:30]
Kelsey Grammer
We have more tissues right down there.
- [72:36]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah. Loved. Thank you, Jamie. So especially.
- [72:45]
Jamie Kern Lima
This show is for you. If you're ready to ignite that light inside of you and learn to shine it brightly. See, I believe where you come from or even where you're at right now doesn't have to determine where you're going. I know. And believe you can go from underestimated to unstoppable. You can go from doubting yourself to trusting yourself, to believing in yourself and to loving yourself. Even if it's for the first time ever or for the first time in a long time. It's your time today. Is your day, and this is your show.
- [73:26]
Oprah Winfrey
Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.
- [73:31]
Jamie Kern Lima
So come as you are. Stay as long as you'd like? Heal where you need, Blossom what you choose, because you belong here. You, exactly as you are, are a miracle in motion, A mighty force for good. You are a masterpiece. I see you. I believe in you. I love you. You are worthy. And right now, I have one question for you. What would you do if you fully believed in you? Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show. It's such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.