← The Jamie Kern Lima Show
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
Meghan Interviews Jamie on Waitressing at Denny’s, Building a Billion Dollar Business and we all can go from Underestimated to Unstoppable!
00:55:04
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- [00:00]
Jamie Kern Lima
I am so excited to share with you a special episode of the podcast today, where the tables are turned. I recently sat down with Meghan, Duchess of Sussex, where she interviewed me on her podcast on the ups and downs of starting IT Cosmetics and the journey of being a female founder. In today's episode of the Jamie Kern Lima show podcast, we're sharing that interview with you. If you've ever launched your own business or idea or art into the world, you. You'll likely have so many experiences that I have and I can't wait to share them with you. See so many people see the success of IT Cosmetics and think perhaps it was easy or I just got lucky or maybe everyone just believed in me and the idea from the beginning and that couldn't be further from the truth. And today, I hope this episode inspires you to never let anyone else's doubt about you or or your idea turn into doubt in your own head. I hope you let it take root that rejection or setbacks or lack of traction are no indication that your dream or business or idea aren't going to succeed. I hope you enjoy this conversation and feel like it's exactly for you today. Welcome to this special edition of the Jamie Kern Lima Show Podcast. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show. Oprah, how have you defied the odds? Her show is unlike any I've ever done.
- [01:35]
Meghan Markle
A revelation. When you listen, it feels like a hug. But your brain and your spirit and your heart is like wow.
- [01:42]
Jamie Kern Lima
Melinda French Gates.
- [01:45]
Megan
When I look into Jamie's eyes, I.
- [01:47]
Meghan Markle
Feel like I am on some other cosmic level with her. I could see the light around her. She's infused with light.
- [01:55]
Jamie Kern Lima
Imagine overcoming self doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself and know you are enough. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.
- [02:06]
Meghan Markle
Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life.
- [02:10]
Jamie Kern Lima
Jamie Kern Lima.
- [02:15]
Meghan Markle
Jamie, you're so inspiring.
- [02:17]
Jamie Kern Lima
Jamie Karl Kern Lima. A week before my one big shot on qvc, we fly to Pennsylvania. I go and I sit in this rental car all alone in the QVC parking lot. Like watching the front doors of the building going. The next time I go in that building, I'm going to go on air. I'm either going to leave bankrupt or I'm going to leave with my entire life changed.
- [02:47]
Megan
I'm Megan and this is Confessions of a Female Founder, a show where I chat with female entrepreneurs and friends about the sleepless nights, the lessons learned and the laser focus that got them to.
- [02:58]
Meghan Markle
Where they are today.
- [02:59]
Jamie Kern Lima
No time to get down cause I'm moving Up? No time to get down? Cause I'm moving up? No time to get down? Cause I'm moving up.
- [03:11]
Megan
Any female founder or founder at all will tell you these moments happen where it feels like absolutely everything is on the line. You feel as though whatever you and your team have been working towards, somehow it's all led you to this one point in time, whether it's a big interview or a high pressure investor meeting. And I will tell you firsthand, the stress, it's palpable. But what do you do when, despite giving it your all, it still doesn't work out? When you still get a no, a crushing no, It's a lot to process. It makes you question whether chasing your dream is even what you're meant to do. But here's the thing. This is precisely the moment that you.
- [04:03]
Meghan Markle
Have to dig deep. You have to use every tool you've.
- [04:07]
Megan
Got and get right back up. My guest today has faced her fair share of those moments. And oh, my goodness, has she come out even stronger. Every single time after every rejection, even.
- [04:24]
Jamie Kern Lima
The most painful ones, even the guy that said, like, no one's gonna buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight, I would write them a letter, a thank you note, as if I'm 100% certain we're going to be in their stores, and it will be a yes.
- [04:39]
Megan
And eventually, she did get that yes. Jamie Kern Lima went from being a waitress at Denny's to the founder of the billion dollar makeup line, IT Cosmetics. Her ability to believe in herself despite rejection, it's her superpower. Since selling IT Cosmetics, Jamie has become a best selling author, invested in over a dozen businesses, and has appeared as a guest shark on Shark Tank. But when I met her, I didn't know any of that. I knew none of that. I just knew her as Jamie, my new neighbor. And she soon became my rocking chair friend. You know, the kind of person where you can just go and sit in your sweats and cozies, no makeup on, and just chat for hours. Her passion is absolutely contagious and uplifting. And I have no doubt that you're gonna walk away from this conversation feeling energized and inspired.
- [05:40]
Meghan Markle
Let's go.
- [05:45]
Jamie Kern Lima
Hi.
- [05:46]
Meghan Markle
Hi. Oh, my gosh.
- [05:49]
Jamie Kern Lima
We're actually double recording for you. And we started five minutes out.
- [05:55]
Meghan Markle
Oh, Jamie. I mean, I feel like we haven't talked about our blood type, but yours is probably an A positive like mine. Cause I was like, even my blood is overachieving.
- [06:04]
Jamie Kern Lima
It is, it is, it is. And I just Learned that this year, actually.
- [06:08]
Meghan Markle
Oh, my God.
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Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah.
- [06:09]
Meghan Markle
That's my running joke. I was like, even my blood type has to be, like, a positive A plus. A plus.
- [06:15]
Jamie Kern Lima
Oh, my gosh.
- [06:16]
Meghan Markle
Thank you for doing this. It's been a full week, but here we are. You good?
- [06:20]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yes. Are you okay?
- [06:22]
Meghan Markle
Yeah. Well, you saw my text yesterday, so there's a lot going on. But that's for our rocking chairs. This is our pseudo rocking chairs.
- [06:29]
Jamie Kern Lima
Okay.
- [06:30]
Meghan Markle
And same vibe. So let's start with that moment of how it all began.
- [06:36]
Jamie Kern Lima
Well, and you being my friend, you know a whole lot more than everyone else. And I actually feel most people don't know the story. I think they just see, like, what the press says, which is, Denny's waitress builds Billion dollar company.
- [06:47]
Meghan Markle
Oh, my gosh. But it's all the beats in between that are the story.
- [06:50]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yes, yes. And how this all started was not only me identifying a problem I couldn't really solve with anything out there, but then realizing there was a whole bunch of other women that, like me at the time, felt unseen by the beauty industry and sticking to the authenticity of the mission of that is how we entered an industry and literally became the largest luxury makeup company in the country. But growing up, I always thought, oh, I'm gonna host a talk show one day. I would sit in my living room, watch Oprah every single day, and I just felt that, like, I'm gonna do that one day. So I did all the jobs to get to that point, and I was anchoring the news, and I was moving up in markets, and I thought this was my dream job. I thought, this is what I'm gonna do forever. And I have hereditary rosacea, which there's no cure for it. I had gone to every dermatologist, and I was in Portland, Oregon, and I was live on the air, and I hear in my earpiece from the producer, there's something on your face. There's something on your face. You need to wipe it off. You need to wipe. And I'm live. And, you know, he was just trying to help me. And I remember kind of knowing what it was, but just figuring, I'll fix it during the break. So during the commercial break, I looked down in my compact, and I tried to cover it up. It was.
- [08:08]
Meghan Markle
My rosacea was coming through.
- [08:10]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah. And it's. It gets really red and bumpy. And just for everyone listening, like, imagining, like, the way desert clay looks, it cracks. So that hot HD lights, it was breaking up my makeup, and the red was coming through, like, cracks all over. So I Went to cover it up. And for the first time ever, it wouldn't cover well.
- [08:31]
Meghan Markle
And also just in that as you talk about feeling seen, I often think about with any of those moments, those human moments, those moments where you're so very seen, maybe you're not seen as like, who you are deep on the inside in that moment as a producer trying to have your back.
- [08:47]
Jamie Kern Lima
But how did you feel initially? I felt scared and worried. And then when it wouldn't cover for the first time, I actually entered what I would describe as a big season of self doubt because I started spending my paycheck on all the products out there and I couldn't find anything that worked. And so I would be anchoring the newsletter live on the air, and you're talking to millions of people. And then I'd hear my earpiece, it seems to be back again. It's still there. Oh, no, it's still there. We could still see. And so I would be talking, but I would be thinking thoughts like, am I going to get fired? Like, am I costing the station rating? Like, are people changing the channel right now? And here's what I want to say to anyone who's gone through struggles. A lot of the greatest businesses are launched out of those problems. And, you know, faith is a big deal for me in my life. But I do think this is a universal principle. Whether someone believes in God or the universe, whatever they might believe, I believe so often in our life, like our greatest setbacks can actually be God's setups for what we're actually supposed to do next.
- [09:59]
Meghan Markle
Faith comes up a lot in every single one of these conversations with any female founder I've spoken to. Every woman talks about faith, whether in herself, in God, in something higher, in a calling, in a person. It is so profound to me that that is the commonality in any of these sectors and any of these journeys. And Anyone, whether they've IPO'd or they're on their rise. Everyone has this deep, deep faith. And I think there's something about that that's been revelatory for me to be reminded of. Because even as you're telling the story about sitting there on the news desk and you have someone in your ear saying this thing to you, but you still have to focus on the thing in front of you, right? You can apply that to so many different things in the world. For me, I think, oh, wow, they're there in your ear, but it's still just noise. You have to stay focused. You have to stay focused on what's Ahead and also say in that what could feel like a breakdown could instead be a breakthrough. And for you, it was your breakthrough.
- [11:04]
Jamie Kern Lima
You know, I've never. I've never said this before. I've never shared this before, but I believe that gut feeling. And when I get those gut feelings, I believe it's how God talks to me. And I wait until I feel that gut feeling. And I remember having this moment where I'm like, what if I could figure out how to launch a product that if it works for me, it's probably going to help a whole bunch of other people. Maybe there's all these other people that can't find makeup that will cover. And then I had this aha moment, as Oprah would call it. Aha moment, where I was like, wait a minute. I've never seen a woman with bright red, bumpy skin all over her face selling a product saying, this is amazing. And I love the beauty commercials. I love them and the ads and magazines, and I always aspire to look like that, but deep down inside, they always made me feel like I wasn't enough. And it was this why that hit me. I was like, wait a minute. What if I could launch a business where I put real people as models? Like, every age and shape and size and skin tone and skin challenge?
- [12:05]
Meghan Markle
And that was such new thinking then, bringing that to market. That was. So now it might seem more normalized, and people might be listening, going, well, yeah, of course, it was not an. Of course. It was a revolutionary way to think about makeup and beauty at the time. I mean, that. That would have been when I was an auditioning actor auditioning for commercials. And I remember my commercial agent could not submit me for beauty or skincare ads because I had freckles. They're like, no, no, no, no. It's just never gonna work. Because freckles aren't a sign of beauty. It was. You couldn't see yourself reflected there. So back to your point of being seen.
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Jamie Kern Lima
Yes.
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Meghan Markle
You said, I want women to feel seen and to not feel as though I'm here to fix what you may have always seen as a flaw. No, I'm here to enhance what I see in you, which is your beauty.
- [12:53]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yes. Yes. I'm gonna jump out of my chair talking about this or cry one or the other, because I'm so passionate about this. And it was like, this. Why? That was bigger than me. It's like, wait a minute. If I can put real people's models beautiful and mean it, like, what if? What if in some small way I could shift the definition of beauty in the whole beauty industry for every little kid out there who's about to start doubting themselves. And my honeymoon flight to South Africa. I wrote the business plan, came back, quit my job, my husband quit his job. We just went all in. Right. I leaned on that knowing. And that why I'm like, I've got to go for this. We went all in. We poured every penny of savings we have into the business.
- [13:35]
Meghan Markle
I mean, that, Jamie. But that is. That is so for people to imagine, that is such a tremendous leap of faith. And that's why we're talking about faith. But that is. Can you imagine saying, no, we're all in.
- [13:50]
Jamie Kern Lima
All in.
- [13:51]
Meghan Markle
Not just that. And that's listening to that whisper, that gut, that knowing that says we have reason to believe without anything around us. That should tell us. That should be the case that we can do this.
- [14:02]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yeah.
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Meghan Markle
We believe it so deeply.
- [14:04]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yes. After we poured all our savings in, after we figured out a product that, like, actually worked for, we did hundreds of iterations of a formula. Here's what I didn't know. I thought, oh, my gosh, if the product's great and our mission is so great, it's just going to work. It's just going to sell. It's just going to be huge. Oh, my gosh. Every one of those department stores, those big beauty retailers, this is what they would say over and over to me. First of all, they said no for three years straight. It was. And I sent samples everywhere. And none of them believed at the time that this idea of a product that works for people with skin issues, and we show it on all ages and real people and sizes and skin tones. And they would always say this to me, these words exactly. Women will only buy makeup from images of unattainable aspiration. It was always those two words, unattainable, which means you can't even look like that. Cause it's not real. And I think one of the most important things that I wish. I wish I knew with more certainty sooner, is that you can never let anyone else's doubt about you turn into doubt in your own head. And it is so important to what we were talking about, for whatever that looks like, for you to get still, to pray, to meditate, to learn how to hear your knowing. Because I think your knowing, that is what you listen to. Not any of the nos happening around you. Right?
- [15:41]
Meghan Markle
Yeah, not the nos. The knowing.
- [15:43]
Jamie Kern Lima
Exactly. Exactly.
- [15:45]
Meghan Markle
You know, like for me, starting a company, it's newer, surrounded by very, very savvy Business, women, friends. And even when you and I had just become friends and I was talking about business, I remember you said to me, okay, so what's the timeline? I said, oh, yeah, like, a couple months from now, you're like, that's too soon. And I didn't want to hear that. But you're right. You planted a seed that became a knowing for me, and it gave me the grace to have the space to take my time until it was right to really, like, not be concerned about someone else's urgency or the media's urgency or speculation's urgency somehow becoming my urgency to wait until you're ready. Even if I didn't want to hear it, it was the thing that I needed to hear.
- [16:41]
Jamie Kern Lima
I want to call out one thing you just said about planting the seeds because it's so easy. If all of a sudden our timeline's being pushed out or something, we think we did something wrong. We think, oh, everyone else sure looks like they have it together on social media or whatever. It must me, because a lot of times when you look at companies or you look at businesses or anything online, you know, you see the outcome or the external.
- [17:07]
Meghan Markle
Yes. They create the illusion. The illusion of, here's the finished product, and look at how great it is. It's just tied up with the bow. And the bow is perfect, as opposed to. The process is not perfect.
- [17:19]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yes, it is not.
- [17:19]
Meghan Markle
The process can be painful, and it can be riddled with things that don't just make you question your business. They make you question yourself.
- [17:27]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yes. Yes.
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Meghan Markle
And I think most of us are risk averse to the idea of looking as though we failed at something.
- [17:34]
Jamie Kern Lima
Mm. Yes. Yes. And I'm thinking about a famous quote that says. I think it's Brendon Burchard that says, like, you're not scared to start. You're scared to have other people see you starting small.
- [17:45]
Meghan Markle
Mm. At least for me. I can only speak for myself. At the beginning, I just liked making jam. All I liked to do was just make jam and preserves. And it went from, okay, I'm share this jam with lots of friends and family to people really like it, and it brings me joy, so maybe I can share it more broadly. But even then, I was in so much fear of failure or opinion that I wasn't thinking big enough at first. At the onset, I thought, okay, well, I know what I can do. Like, I'm gonna go online, and I can get what's called a cottage license, which you can get in the state of California, which means if you cook something in your home, you can sell it up to a certain amount at a farmer's market or somewhere small. And I thought, okay, well that's great, I'll get my cottage license. And I applied for one and thought I'll just do small batch jam from home. And I had to step back and look at what I was doing and saying, am I playing small because I want to play small or am in motion playing small because I'm scared? And you know Oprah, who I know is a mentor and friend to you. Same for me. She was the one that said there are tons of things you could put your name on but for you and how you like to show up for people. Once you figure out how to encapsulate your essence, then you'll know. And it was so clear even as I'm listening to your story. The essence of who you are was about feeling seen, knowing that you're enough, knowing that you're beautiful despite what anybody would say, and putting that essence in a product that could be shared with millions of people.
- [19:32]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yes, we need to pause for a super brief break and while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire. Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter, and to feel less alone and more enough more connected and more worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration. Which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one on one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you if you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy and love hitting your inbox. I'm your girl. Subscribe@jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show notes. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self worth. When you build your self worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy how to Believe you are enough and transform your life for you. If you have some self doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you. In Worthy you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life changing results. Like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back. Build unshakable self love, unlearn the lies that lead to self doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self doubt and unshakable self worth. Get your copy of Worthy plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you@worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you'd do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy. And now more of this incredible conversation together.
- [22:32]
Meghan Markle
Okay, so you've created this prompt, this magical concealer and you're ready to share it with the world, but no one is paying attention. That is so hard.
- [22:42]
Jamie Kern Lima
I had no idea how many no's I would get. No's from amazing experts in the beauty industry. Nos from some of my favorite stores I would shop in. I mean I would send our samples to everyone. And finally, Megan, all of the like really high profile buyers and this and that, they were all saying no. So I started, I was like, okay, I've just got to get our, our product's so good. This is gonna. And I felt in my gut it was gonna work, but like nothing around me said that my gut was right. So I started stalking LinkedIn going let me just find everyone who works at Sephora, no matter their position. And Ulta Beauty and all the department stores and qvc, let me just send them all samples. And I mean it was just like over and over and over.
- [23:27]
Meghan Markle
Like not love bombing, product bombing. You're like product.
- [23:33]
Jamie Kern Lima
Over and over.
- [23:34]
Meghan Markle
But also, but sorry, but also like you don't have to. You don't have the funds to just be sending out endless product that could possibly just end up in someone's. They're gonna give it to a friend or they're not gonna even open it. That is again such a leap of faith and an investment. Cause you don't know the ROI at that point.
- [23:53]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yes. And I remember we were so close to bankruptcy and I remember I'd finally got a meeting with Sephora. I was like, oh my gosh, I could Barely afford the plane ticket to get there. So it's this tall building in Market street in downtown San Francisco. And I flew there. I remember going up the whole building. I. I remember the elevator doors opening, and I felt like Anne Hathaway in Devil Wears Prada. I was like, whoa. I remember looking all around and I had this moment where I looked down at what I was wearing, and I was like, oh, no. What were you wearing?
- [24:23]
Meghan Markle
I couldn't afford.
- [24:24]
Jamie Kern Lima
It was an old. Like a very old kind of dress thing. But I, you know, I could not afford a new outfit. And when I walked in the boardroom, I was like, pouring my heart out. And there was one decision maker, and she was actually the head buyer at the time. And I'll never forget, she stopped me mid pitch and she said, if people were talking about this product, I'd be hearing about it. And I'm not. Yeah. And it was a no. And I remember just like walking out to the elevator, and it was a packed elevator, and I was trying not to cry. I remember tears, like, at the edge of my lashes, and I was trying to cry my lashes off. And I said. I was like, I can't cry. I'm a CEO. These are all Sephora people. I'm like, they can't see me cry. And I was like, trying to hold it all together. And we got to the bottom lob, and I walked straight out and right around the corner on Market street and up against this brick wall. And I just, like, started sobbing because I was like, how am I gonna call Paula, my husband, and tell him it's a no and I don't know how we're gonna make it? And there were so many of those.
- [25:26]
Meghan Markle
Oh, Jamie, as you're talking about all these no's for me, what was I doing before? I was acting. Oh, my gosh. Oh, please. I heard no all the time. Especially. Cause I wasn't cookie cutter for a specific type. And at the start of my aud, you were either the black girl or the white girl or the Latina girl or the like. Everything was typecast. So being mixed, I could get into a lot of rooms. That meant as a numbers game, I heard no even more.
- [25:53]
Jamie Kern Lima
Mm. Yeah, I remember a no from qvc where I finally. I'd sent them so many samples for years. I finally got the head guy, a guy named Alan Burke, and he.
- [26:05]
Meghan Markle
I love this story.
- [26:05]
Jamie Kern Lima
Oh, my gosh. So he's responsible for building the multi billion dollar beauty business at qvc. And imagine sending hundreds of samples for years. And either Getting no's or never hearing. I finally got word he wanted to have a call. I was like, oh my gosh, if Alan Burke wants to get like, this is huge. If he's gonna give me his call. And I was like pacing around my office, which was our living room, and I was like, getting ready for the call. I was like power posing. Because Harvard had done the research that if you pose like superwoman, you're more confident. And I was like power posing. I was like pumping my. And I was like telling myself, like, they'll be lucky to have us and all these things. Anyways, he. That phone call, he was very kind, but he basically said in these exact words, we've received your samples, all of them. And I wanted to call you directly and let you know myself that I've met with our entire buying team and it's unanimous that you are not the right fit for QVC or our customers.
- [27:12]
Meghan Markle
It's horrible.
- [27:13]
Jamie Kern Lima
Horrible.
- [27:14]
Meghan Markle
I love that he did it personally. It's not like breaking up in a post it note.
- [27:18]
Jamie Kern Lima
Right?
- [27:18]
Meghan Markle
But, oh, man, after three years, my.
- [27:22]
Jamie Kern Lima
Worst rejections were to come. But that was a pretty bad one.
- [27:25]
Meghan Markle
Especially after that grind. And also at this point, how much money do you have in the bank account?
- [27:29]
Jamie Kern Lima
Close to zero. Yeah. We were basically getting one to two orders a day on our website and barely keeping the lights on. And we couldn't afford marketing or advertising. So it was just word of mouth that people were even hearing about it. Everything was about, how do we stay alive? And I remember at the time, we got an inbound from a potential investor, and I was like, oh my gosh. I started doing all my homework. I'm like, they've invested all these companies that, like, used to be very tiny. Now they're big names in grocery stores and big box retailers. I was like, oh my gosh. Okay. I was freaking. I told Paula, my husband, I'm like, look, look at this email. And it was a big potential investor. So a big private equity company, very well known, and they gotten a hold of our product and they wanted to have a meeting.
- [28:16]
Meghan Markle
Oh my gosh.
- [28:17]
Jamie Kern Lima
And so the thought of, like, oh my gosh, this investor is going to be my saving grace. Because if he invests, then, A, we're not gonna go bankrupt, B, like, maybe he can use all his connections to get us in these stores. And we took our first meeting and it was amazing. We did meeting after meeting after meeting, and we flew up for the. The final meeting where I presented like the whole future product pipeline. And I thought this Was gonna be my saving grace. And I was so excited. And I'll never forget Paolo, my husband, was standing next to me, about three feet from me. And the head of the private equity firm was there. He was lovely. And his whole team, who was great, they were all there. At the very end of the meeting, he says to me, you know, congratulations. You should be so proud. Like, this is a really, really great product, but it's a no. We're gonna pass on investing in it cosmetics. And I was like, oh. I was so used to hearing no, but it felt like, you know, like a punch in the gut because I was like, I don't know how we're gonna make it. And so I said, can you tell me why?
- [29:23]
Meghan Markle
What did he say?
- [29:24]
Jamie Kern Lima
Well, I mean, feedback can be a gift. So I said, can you tell me why? And he got really quiet. And I'm standing here in person, right? I'm like two or three feet from him, and he got really, really, really quiet. And he says to me, do you want me to be really honest with you? And I was like, yes, please. And he just paused. And I remember feeling like my heart beat in my ears for some reason. I was like, what? What could this be? And I remember his mouth started moving. And I remember looking at his mouth and his teeth for some reason. And he says to me, I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight. And when he said those, first of all, I never even got angry or felt anger toward him. But when he said those words to me, it felt almost like a lifetime of body doubt and self doubt, like, flooded my body all at once. I almost felt like I was staring my own fear straight in the eye. But here's why I wanna share this. When you said those words to me, I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight. I got this feeling, and it was so strong, Megan. I can feel it right now. Like, literally, it was so strong in my gut, visceral, this feeling that said, he's wrong. Like, he's wrong.
- [30:48]
Meghan Markle
Oh, that's huge. And I think that's also a good reminder of in those moments where the environment, the pitch, the opportunity feels so much bigger than we are. The building itself, the enormous elevator doors. Don't try to book the part, Just try to book the room. Meaning there's always gonna be a room full of people. And especially in business, as you're pitching some of those people from sephora will probably end up at Ulta and some of the Ulta people end up at a hedge fund and some of those private equity people end up at that VC company. And you might not be right in that exact moment for that part, for that pitch, if we're making the analogy. But one of those people in the room will likely remember you. And when your journey takes you somewhere else and your paths cross, you may have not booked that part, you may have not gotten that exact pitch, but you've booked something in that room so that they've remembered you. Your essence, your product, what you can bring to the table and to try to see those opportunities. Even when there's a no. The no is a no for right now or it's a not yet. But it could still be with one of those people who's present to him saying that to you.
- [32:00]
Jamie Kern Lima
Okay, I have goosebumps right now because this is okay. After every rejection, even the most painful ones, Even the guy that said, like, no one's gonna buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight. Even Alan Burke, the head of qvc, who said you're not the right fit for us or our customers. Even the woman at Sephora, right, who said no one's talking about your product after every single one make it. I would write them a letter, a thank you note, as if I'm 100% certain we're going to be in their stores and it will be a yes every time. Wow. And then over and over, let's say six months later, we get an article written about our product somewhere. I would then go email every single one of those people who said no and be like, great news, this product just got featured here and it's. And when we get in your stores one day, I can't wait for this because this is going to change all your customers lives. I'm so excited to partner da da da da da da as for sure it's gonna happen. And I kept doing that over and over for years. They might have thought, who knows what they thought about me. But. But guess what?
- [33:01]
Meghan Markle
Oh my gosh.
- [33:01]
Jamie Kern Lima
Every no turned into a yes. Every single no turned into a yes.
- [33:06]
Meghan Markle
This is. You know, some people will be super intentional about creating their vision board. Great. That is you putting your vision board in action every single time that you made a choice to send an email, to follow up, to continue believing and putting those beliefs not just on a board, not just in your head. To putting words in action, putting pen to paper as though it is true.
- [33:29]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yes.
- [33:30]
Meghan Markle
I think that's really powerful for people to see that it's not something that you just look at. It is putting the do's behind the says. You're saying it, but you're doing something actively to signal to the universe or whatever it is that you believe in. This is in motion. Maybe not as fast as I'd like it to be, but this is coming. This is coming and I'm so excited. And then perfect timing to fast forward to how you ended up on qvc.
- [33:58]
Jamie Kern Lima
Oh my goodness.
- [34:04]
Meghan Markle
Just paint the picture for us of this epic QVC moment in 2010.
- [34:11]
Jamie Kern Lima
This is the wildest story and honestly the biggest business lessons and life lessons I've ever learned. Because here's the deal, we're over three years in, okay? And imagine everyone, if you've gone through this before, maybe you're just going through it with me right now. But we're three years in to like, like building this dream and on the verge of bankruptcy. Everyone is saying no. And I was at this huge beauty expo in New York City called CEW where there's 6,000 women walking the Javits Center. You get a three foot table and you're there with all the biggest beauty companies in the world and everyone's demonstrating their product launches. And the reason you do this is you're hoping that the 6,000 people walking that either there's retailers there that'll bring you into their stores or there's that might cover your product or that you get votes and you win one of the coveted CEW awards. So I'm there at a three foot table, it cosmetics, no one has ever heard of me. And I'm around all the biggest brands in the world. Long story short, qvc, I see QVC has this giant booth there and I was like, oh. Now Alan Burke had said, the head of QVC has said beauty had said, no, you're not the right fit for us or our customers just a few months before. But I was there and I'm like, I've never met anyone in person at qvc and so you're not allowed to leave your three foot table. And I could not afford to get kicked out. But I was like, I've got to do like, I kept praying about it and I felt in my gut like, I've got to do this. And I kept leaving my table and every time I go over toward their booth, their buyers were mobbed, like just crowded with people. So I go back, I eventually go over and I get straight to a buyer and I introduce myself to her. And I said, hi, I'm Jamie Kern Lima. I started a company called IT Cosmetics. She's like, oh, yeah, I have your samples. And I was like, oh, really good. And I remember, this is so gross. But this is confessions of an Entrepreneur, of a founder. I remember talking to her, trying to like, pour everything I have into this. I remember sweat dripping down my legs because I was so nervous. And anyways, at the very end, she. She gives me her card and she says, let's have a meeting at qvc. And I know. And I was like. And then I was like, wait, does she mean it? Like, if you've ever had anyone go DM me. And then like, I'm on my Instagram looking and there's no dm. I didn't know if she meant it, but she did. And we flew out to Pennsylvania, we had a meeting, and we got our very first big. Yes, but huge. But what it meant was I got one shot. So everyone imagine this. QVC's live to 100 million homes. I got one shot in this 10 minute window to go on live and either hit their sales goal or not come back. So I learned that I have to sell over 6,000 units of our product in a 10 minute window to hit their sales goal. Because remember, on qvc, every minute of airtime, you're competing against the numbers Apple iPhone could do or, you know, any other big product. So you have to deliver these high numbers. So then I learned, yes, go ahead.
- [37:24]
Meghan Markle
But wait, kids, there's more.
- [37:25]
Jamie Kern Lima
But wait, there's more.
- [37:27]
Meghan Markle
Oh, man.
- [37:28]
Jamie Kern Lima
I then learned that it is a consignment offer. Okay. And what that meant was we somehow had to pay for over 6000 units of product. And if it doesn't sell, I have to take it all back and we're not paid. So you should never say yes.
- [37:49]
Meghan Markle
And for everybody listening, you should never.
- [37:52]
Jamie Kern Lima
Say yes to that.
- [37:53]
Meghan Markle
That is. I mean, if you were a betting woman and you're in Vegas or something, that the odds on that are so bad to say, but again, you were in such deep faith, you wanted it. You had the vision of being there on QVC, you have a 10 minute shot. You have 6,000 units of product that you have to go and pay for, invest in, put that on a credit card and let's hope we can pay that off. And now you have 6,000 units of a product that you don't know if you can sell in 10 minutes.
- [38:20]
Jamie Kern Lima
Well, and here's what's wild. We couldn't even afford to put on a credit card. So we were like, how are we going to do this? We went to 22 banks trying to get a loan, SBA loan. They all said no, and they should have because we had no accounts receivable. We had the 23rd bank. California bank and Trust gave us an SBA loan that covered the amount of this one big purchase order and then a little bit more. And we decided to go all in, because I was like, I don't know how we're gonna make it if we don't.
- [38:51]
Meghan Markle
Oh, I have chills.
- [38:52]
Jamie Kern Lima
And we use that little extra money. We hired third party consultants, and they're amazing. They all said the same thing. They said, okay, if you want a shot at actually hitting these sales numbers and making it on QVC, here's what you need to do in your 10 minutes. You need to put this type of model demonstrating your product. And then. And they would tell me all the things to do, which was all, like, literally girls that look like they are 12, all with the same skin tone and no skin challenges. And so I said to them, okay, here's the thing. Here's my authentic vision for the brand. What if I put a model in her 70s or 80s, and then I put someone who's dealing with under eye circles and someone who's struggling with acne and hyperpigmentation? And what if I take my own makeup off on national tv? I show my bright red rosacea and I prove the product works. And they were mortified. And so I'll never forget this. A week before my one Big shot on qvc, we fly to Pennsylvania. I go and I sit in this rental car all alone in the QVC parking lot, like, watching the front doors of the building going. The next time I go in that building, I'm gonna go on air. I'm either gonna leave bankrupt or I'm gonna leave with my entire life changed. And there is a moment in the car where I remember just, like, praying, crying. I remember I'd once seen an oprah show like 20 years earlier where she talks about how she wanted the Color Purple so bad, the movie, and she wasn't getting it. And so she, like, ran around a track and started singing I Surrender all, and ask God to take it from her because it felt too heavy, her obsession with wanting it. I was so stressed in the car. I literally was like, I'm trying that too. I started singing I Surrender All. I was like, God, this feels so heavy for me. And I was, like, trying to ask him to take it because. Because here's the True confession. I was so tempted in that moment to try it their way. Because I was like, what if I do it and it works and I make money and I don't go bankrupt? Then I can try it my way. Like, I had all those thoughts, and it was this moment in the car that these words, like, they hit me. That, yes, you cannot fake authenticity. Customers are smart. And while authenticity alone does not automatically guarantee success, inauthenticity guarantees failure. Like, every time, over time. Right.
- [41:15]
Meghan Markle
But you raise such a good point, because I think, especially when there are lots of opinions and you're grappling and you're trying to figure it out. It's like, when do you trust your gut? Or when do you trust the advice? And especially if you enlist someone to be an advisor. And at what point do you have to sit there, get quiet with yourself, and be able to confidently look at them and say, that may be what works, but that's not what's gonna work for me.
- [41:39]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yes. Yes, that is it. That is it right there. Because I believe your intuition is more powerful than anyone else's advice. Even your greatest mentor. Right? And so that moment. So I'm sitting there in the rental car, crying, trying all the things, singing, singing, being tempted to try it their way. And it was like. I remember it coming to me. Cause I was imagining, who is that one person on the other end? I don't know why, but I kept imagining, like, a single mom in Nebraska who was, like, folding laundry, way too busy to remember that she so beautiful and that she matters. I would rather her look up and see me showing women that look like her and calling them beautiful and meaning it, even if she buys nothing. I knew in that moment I'd rather stand for something than sell a whole ton of product and stand for nothing. I remember walking into the studio, and there's all these cameras, and it's you and the host, and then there's this giant clock on the ground, and it was set at 10 minutes. And I was like, okay, then, Megan. Then literally right before I go out, I learn after all this, I learn you're not even guaranteed your 10 minutes. Yep. If you. Because they. They know by the second, if you're hitting numbers, they know how many people are ordering on their phones, how many are ordering online, how many are calling in. So you might go live, and you're a minute or two in. You think like, oh, I've got eight minutes left. If you're not hitting numbers, your clock jumps from eight down to one.
- [43:09]
Meghan Markle
Oh, my gosh.
- [43:10]
Jamie Kern Lima
And you know, you're done.
- [43:11]
Meghan Markle
Oh my gosh.
- [43:12]
Jamie Kern Lima
So I learned that. And I remember the moment that the big red on air light came on. So we were live. I had been practicing this demonstration on my wrist, okay, the big part in the back of our wrist that bends and gets all these creases. And I would put our product, our concealer, and then the top two best selling ones from department stores. And I would bend my hand back and forth and theirs would start creasing and cracking and ours, which is a big deal. I had perfected this in my bathroom mirror like a million times. So I'm live trying to do this demonstration in the first minute of the show. My hand is shaking so much because I'm so nervous. The host, I couldn't even finish the demonstration. The host grabs my hand, puts it under the podium and she's like, thank you, sugar. And she took over. And I remember the moment my bright red bare face before shot comes up on the screen to 100 million homes. And then I remember walking over to the models, like every age, shape, size, skin tone, skin challenge, like calling them beautiful, meaning it. And I remember we were a few minutes in, I didn't know how we were doing, but I knew I wasn't cut yet. So I was like, okay, this is good. And then we got down, it was like the eight or nine minute mark. And I remember the host saying, the deep shade's almost gone, the tan shade's almost. And literally at the 10 minute mark, this giant sold out sign comes up across the screen. All six plus thousand units. I start crying on national television and they cut from me and went to like Dyson vacuum or something. Paulo comes running through the double doors and I'm just like thinking. And I remember looking at him and I'm like, real women have spoken. And I'm like sobbing. I thought he was going to come over and give me the biggest hug ever. And he just look and he puts his fists up in the air and he's like, we're not going bankrupt. And I'm like, oh my gosh, what.
- [45:16]
Meghan Markle
Did you guys do that night to celebrate?
- [45:19]
Jamie Kern Lima
I was in such a daze. I don't even know if I was able yet to be in my body because it was years and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of no's. I cried all my makeup off. I was just. I felt like I was out of my body. And I remember that one airing turned into five that year and then 101 the next year. And then we did 250 live shows. A year, year after year after year. And we built the biggest beauty brand.
- [45:48]
Meghan Markle
In QVC's history and sold for $1.2 billion cash. I mean, like just one legendary acquisition.
- [46:00]
Jamie Kern Lima
And you just reminded me, too, of after we launched on qvc, after we made it, after we started gaining traction. Alan Burke, remember the head guy that said, you're not the right fit for QVC or our customers.
- [46:14]
Meghan Markle
Please stop sending us product?
- [46:15]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yes. Okay. So after we launched, he ends up retiring from qvc. He'd been there several decades. He retired from qvc and we hire him. Him in a paid position on our advisory board. So the guy that rejected me is now working for me, right? And the days I was crying myself to sleep when he said, you are not the right fit for QVC or our customers, no one can tell you you are not the right fit. And I just believe in divine timing. And the other thing I wanted to share quickly is, you know, after. When L' Oreal bought our company, right, they paid $1.2 billion cash. And because they're a public company, they had to report it and disclose lows the purchase price. The day the deal went through, because it was on the homepage of the Wall Street Journal, because it was everywhere. It was the first day I heard from that one investor, that potential investor who said, women won't buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight. It had been six years, and that was the first time I heard from him. And he said, congratulations on the l' Oreal deal. I was wrong.
- [47:24]
Meghan Markle
I'm like, just vindication, right?
- [47:27]
Jamie Kern Lima
Oh, my gosh, Megan. Had he believed in me six years earlier, I was so desperate. I had no money. I didn't know how we were going to make it.
- [47:35]
Meghan Markle
Oh, you would have given so much equity away.
- [47:37]
Jamie Kern Lima
I would have given him probably the whole company for almost nothing. Just hoping, can I stay alive? Because he didn't believe in me. We were still the largest shareholder when we sold our company. And by the way, when you said that, when you said, congratulations on the l' Oreal deal, I was wrong. I don't know if you remember in the movie Pretty Woman, where'd she go?
- [47:57]
Meghan Markle
Big mistake, right?
- [47:58]
Jamie Kern Lima
That's what I wanted to say to him. Huge.
- [48:00]
Meghan Markle
Yes.
- [48:01]
Jamie Kern Lima
I was like, I want to say big mistake. Huge. But I didn't. I kept it really classy. I wouldn't have wanted to be him. And I was like, thank you. Thank you so much.
- [48:10]
Meghan Markle
Thank you so much from all of those nos, from everything that you went through, from just genuinely, deeply being in perseverance to the point that we started with talking about this idea of planting a seed.
- [48:24]
Jamie Kern Lima
Yes.
- [48:24]
Meghan Markle
And I know in this conversation how many seeds you've planted for people with, how much you been generous to share about what that feels like in the journey and on the journey that has taken you to this place where now not just from what you can do as an entrepreneur, but what you've been able to do for women and for people to know their worth, to write these best selling books that have changed people's lives. And that person that was there as a waitress at Denny's or as a news anchor on local news, that's that same person in there who wants to feel seen. And as a result of that, you've been able to create the most illustrious career where not just as a businesswoman but as a person, you let so many people feel seen. And it just is the most beautiful gift that I think you've been able to give. And to be so candid in your journey, that makes the gift even more profound. So thank you.
- [49:20]
Jamie Kern Lima
Oh my gosh, thank you.
- [49:27]
Megan
Next week I'm talking to a founder who makes instant drinks that are not only healthy. Oh, they're cool.
- [49:35]
Oprah Winfrey
People really want this. And this is a completely unrealistic ritual. So Rog challenged me, if you can make the drinks we're serving in this bar that people are loving into, you know, a powder format, an instant drink, which is the least sexy product, most antiquated product of all time. Let's put this out there in the world.
- [49:50]
Jamie Kern Lima
Let's.
- [49:51]
Oprah Winfrey
Let's build something.
- [49:53]
Megan
Can you guess who it is? See you then.
- [50:05]
Melinda French Gates
Confessions of a Female Founder is a production of Lemonada Media created and hosted by Megan. Our producers are Catherine Barnes and Oha Lock. Kristin Lepore is our senior supervising producer. Executive producers are Stephanie Whittles, Wax, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Megan Mix and sound design are by Johnny Vincevans. Rachel Neal is our VP of new content and production and Steve Nelson is our SVP of weekly content and production. You can help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. There's more. Confessions of a Female Founder with less. Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content when you subscribe in Apple Podcasts. You can also listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Thanks so much for listening. We'll see you next week.
- [50:59]
Jamie Kern Lima
Remember, this episode's not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person that you know because it can impact and change their life too. And if you Love Today's episode. Please click the subscribe or Follow button on the show, on the app that you're listening to or watching it on, and if it added value to your life, if you could please give it a rating or five star review, I'd be so grateful. And again, please share it with everyone you believe in, post it, and share it with other people online or in your community who just might need these words and tools and lessons in this episode. Today you never to need whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode. And thank you so much for joining me today. And before you go, I wanted to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams and all the unconditional love in the world. And it is an honor to welcome you to each and every episode of the Jamie Kern Lima show here. I hope you'll come as you are, heal where you need, blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling and stay as long as you like. Because you belong here. You are worthy, you are loved, you are love and I love you and I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. In life you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self worth. When you build your self worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book how to believe you are enough and transform your life for you. If you have some self doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, worthy is for you. In Worthy you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life changing results like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self love, unlearn the lies that lead to self doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self doubt and unshakable self worth. Get your copy of Worthy plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you@worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Below Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you, it's time to find out. With worthy, who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self belief and I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration. Which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one on one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy and love hitting your inbox. I'm your girl. Subscribe@jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show Notes. And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.