Tim Dillon & Rogan RIP Into Out-Of-Control ICE Agents!

Summary

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The Jimmy Dore Show: Tim Dillon & Rogan RIP Into Out-Of-Control ICE Agents!

Date: January 16, 2026
Host: Jimmy Dore
Main Guests/Panelists: Kurt, Caleb Maupin, Keaton Weiss

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Episode Overview

This episode takes sharp aim at the state of US immigration enforcement, accusing ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) of out-of-control behavior, low standards for agents, performative and cruel raids, and a failed PR offensive. The panel draws on commentary from prominent hosts Tim Dillon and Joe Rogan, explores corruption and incompetence in ICE’s hiring, and broadens its critique to US foreign policy, US media complicity in war propaganda, and the dynamics of protest vs. movement-building. The second half of the episode pivots to foreign intervention in Iran and Venezuela, highlighting media skepticism and grass-roots organizing as responses to US and Western imperialism.

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Key Topics and Insights

1. ICE Raids: Performative, Cruel, and Incompetently Staffed

• Theatrical Law Enforcement:
  Jimmy Dore asserts that ICE raids are “performative and cruel,” deliberately staged for maximal media exposure rather than effectiveness.

  “They’re making these showy performative raids in cities... arrested a couple hundred people. And you know how many charges came from that? 0. Not one. Zero.” (Jimmy Dore, 01:40–02:38)

• Serving Political Interests, Not Justice:
  The panel frames ICE—as well as immigration crackdowns in general—as “chum to the hardcore MAGA supporters,” meant to distract from governmental failures on policy, spending, and foreign wars.

  “The only thing they have... ICE raids and they make it very visible as chum to his base.” (Jimmy Dore, 02:45)

• Dysfunctional and Questionable Recruitment:
  Drawing from Tim Dillon and a Slate exposé, they lampoon ICE's hiring as requiring “about the same requirements to join a biker gang with the exclusion of knowing how to ride a motorcycle.”

  “The people who are joining ICE are so shot... they couldn’t do like security at a mall.” (Jimmy Dore, 04:30)

Notable Quote

• “I don’t believe you should ever shoot someone in the face more than once. I’ve—no, seriously. I think it’s ridiculous...” (Jimmy Dore, 04:51)

Timestamps

• [00:03–03:39] – Introduction, ICE’s lost influencers and performative enforcement
• [04:23–08:06] – Discussion of who ICE recruits and how low the bar is

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2. ICE Agency: Thin Vetting and Media Manipulation

• Insider Journalistic Experiment:
  Jimmy relates a Slate journalist’s “undercover” experience: ex-military, outspoken anti-Trump, she easily made it through ICE’s application process, got a “Welcome to ICE” letter, and exposed blank vetting and lack of serious screening.

  “ICE’s recruitment push is so sloppy... They are invited to submit information for review similar to any other applicant. Okay, I’ve never heard of a tentative selection letter.” (Jimmy Dore, 11:50)

• ICE's Defensive PR:
  After the exposé, ICE mounted a clumsy PR fight, including accusations the journalist lied—despite their own documentation of her onboarding.

  “ICE is so sloppy, not only in their hiring practices, but in their responding to people calling out their sloppy...” (Jimmy Dore, 13:25)

• Influencers and Astroturfing:
  The episode closes the ICE segment with allegations that ICE is literally paying influencers and seeding the online conversation in their favor.

  “Now that the part that ICE is literally paying influencers to post positive things about ICE. Oh cool. That’s a great use of funds.” (Jimmy Dore, 19:17)

Timestamps

• [08:06–14:00] – Slate exposé; disastrous ICE vetting; PR fallout

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3. Militarized Immigration Enforcement and Civil Liberties

• Joe Rogan’s remarks are cited, expressing horror at militarized agents “snatching people up, many of which turn out to actually be US citizens.”

  “Are we really gonna be the Gestapo? Where’s the papers? Is that what we’ve come to? Yes, yes, that is what we’ve come to.” (Keaton Weiss/Jimmy Dore, 06:37–06:56)

• The conversation emphasizes the dangerous cycle of anonymity, lack of accountability, and the potential for abuse.

  “Allowing them to be anonymous creates a whole host of other problems where you could have people pretend to be them.” (Keaton Weiss, 07:25)

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4. Media, Propaganda & Foreign Policy (Iran & Venezuela)

Iran Protests: CIA, Mossad, and Manufactured Consent

• Skepticism of Casualty Figures:
  The panel argues that “Western media is whitewashing deadly riots in Iran, relying on US government funded regime change NGOs,” with numbers (172, 500, 2000, up to 12,000) coming from sources funded by the CIA or Israeli government.

  “CNN was an adjunct of the CIA... they own the press, they own the media and they’re able to shovel data.” (Kurt, 39:19–41:29)

• Mossad/CIA Operations:
  Discussion highlights well-documented US and Israeli interference—information warfare, use of Starlink, Western funding of protest “cells,” all to destabilize Iran.

  “This war is stupid and it shouldn’t be fought. It’s a criminal war. But the American people... have proven themselves to be extraordinarily susceptible to propaganda.” (Kurt, 33:36)

• Patterns from Iraq, Libya, Ukraine:
  Dore and guests draw direct parallels to past propaganda efforts preceding US wars—WMDs, claims of mass rape, chemical attacks, and exaggerating atrocities.

Venezuela: War for Oil

• Antiwar Protests:
  Caleb Maupin shares street interviews from New York after the US attack and abduction of Maduro; the consensus is the US wants Venezuela’s oil, not democracy.

  “What do I think about Venezuela? The same thing I thought about Iraq, the same thing I thought about Libya... We will do whatever is necessary to get the oil and resources of another country and we say that it’s about democracy. That is so ridiculous.” (Jimmy Dore, 42:37)

• Exile Communities and Regime Change:
  Heated exchanges with Venezuelan exile supporters; panel critiques how such exiles are unrepresentative, often animated by revenge, not democracy.

  “You all should be ashamed of yourselves. Your own people are going to be the next Iraqi refugees... Shame on you, traitors to your country.” (Caleb, Jimmy, Kurt, 44:47–45:17)

Timestamps

• [19:23–39:05] – Debate on Iran media narratives and foreign intervention
• [41:29–45:30] – Venezuela, protester and exile perspectives

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5. Protest, Movement-Building, and the Possibility of Change

• Beyond Protest – Building Alternatives:
  Chairman Omali Yeshitela of the African People’s Socialist Party is quoted, inspiring listeners to not just protest but “build the world that we want.”

  “Instead of only protesting the world as it is, we have to be involved in building the world that we want.” (Omali Yeshitela, 52:06)

• Community Power in Action:
  Segment highlights initiatives such as One Africa, One Nation farmers market, exemplifying real-world socialist organizing and tangible self-sufficiency.

  “There are people actually taking things into their own hands and building things and accomplishing things. And that kind of power begets more power.” (Keaton Weiss, 53:24)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I’ve always believed this ... I don’t believe you should ever shoot someone in the face more than once... I just think it’s ridiculous.”
  — Jimmy Dore, on law enforcement violence ([04:51])
• “You want to know how easy it is to get hired at ICE?... ICE has about the same requirements to join a biker gang, with the exclusion of knowing how to ride a motorcycle.”
  — Jimmy Dore ([08:06])
• “Are we really gonna be the Gestapo? Where's the papers? Is that what we've come to? Yes, yes, that is what we’ve come to, yes. Pretty quickly. Very, very quickly.”
  — Keaton Weiss & Jimmy Dore ([06:45])
• "CNN was an adjunct of the CIA... when the CIA needed to run a counter information operation, they brought CNN in to do their bidding."
  — Kurt ([39:19])
• "Your own people are going to be the next Iraqi refugees... Millions of your own people are going to die, and you’re cheering for the death of your own people."
  — Caleb Maupin confronting pro-intervention exiles ([44:47–45:21])
• “Instead of only protesting the world as it is, we have to be involved in building the world that we want.”
  — Chairman Omali Yeshitela ([52:13])

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Section Timestamps

• 00:03–03:39 — ICE’s loss of influencer support, intro to ICE topic
• 03:39–08:06 — Tim Dillon and Joe Rogan on ICE; agent background lampooned
• 08:06–14:00 — Slate expose on ICE hiring; jaw-dropping ease of getting in
• 17:45–19:17 — ICE influencer spending & loss of right-wing media support
• 19:23–39:05 — Iran coverage, media disinformation, regime change context
• 41:29–45:34 — Venezuela intervention; protest and exile community conflict
• 52:06–57:53 — Chairman Omali Yeshitela on movement building and organizing

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Takeaway Themes

• Systemic Rot in Immigration Enforcement:
  The hosts and guests paint ICE as woefully underqualified, performative, and a tool of partisan theater rather than law enforcement.

• Propaganda Pipeline:
  The episode offers a blistering critique of the US media’s role in manufacturing consent for war—citing direct state, CIA, Mossad, and influencer manipulation.

• Grassroots Power vs Performative Protest:
  The panel calls for moving beyond “just protest” toward building community alternatives, referencing tangible efforts like the African People’s Socialist Party.

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Recommended for listeners skeptical of establishment news, seeking a deep-dive into immigration, war propaganda, and radical organizing, all delivered in The Jimmy Dore Show’s signature irreverent and combative style.

Transcript

[Jimmy Dore]

Come see me live on tour February 20th in Lansing, Michigan. February 21st in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Go to Jimmy Dore.com for a link for tickets. Establishment media sucks. All gas lighting, so good luck bullshit. We can't afford why he's fomenting this Watch and see as his jack golf comedian speeds and jumps the medium and hits them head on. It's the chimmy door show. Ice is having its trouble. It's lost its influencers. It's lost Joe Rogan, it's lost Tim Dillon, Pretty sure it's lost Andrew Schultz. It's lost us, it's lost Kurt. It's law. I don't know who it's still got, but unless who's not paid because it turns out they're being paid, we're going to cover that in another point is pay me ice. Yeah, what you want, but I think the shooting that woman in the face three times who was act obviously turned her wheels to go the other way. By the way, that guy, there's a video of that cop who shot him. He was walking away after. No limp, no nothing. So they remember, they talked about he had to go to the hospital or something. There's nothing, nothing happened. Nothing happened to him. Anxious bones.

[Kurt]

They said he had anxiety in his bones. He felt that. I didn't know. I thought that they were allowed to shoot you if they thought you were running them over. But one of the last stories we had last week, I think it's written.

[Jimmy Dore]

No, they're not allowed to. Well, he's not going to be prosecuted. Don't worry. No nothing. So here's what Tim Dillon had to say. He's like ice raids which are kind.

[Kurt]

Of performative and cruel.

[Jimmy Dore]

And now they are performative and cruel. Now why do I say performative? Because you notice they're not going after. They're not going to hotels, they're not going to meat packing plants, they're not going to construction sites, they're not going to, to farms. What they're doing is making these showy performative raids in cities. And like when they did the, the 2:00am helicopter with the attack helicopters and they, they all went down and on ropes into. And they arrested, I don't know, a couple of hundred people. And you know how many charges came from that? 001. Not one. We covered it. Not one. Zero. Well, that seems lower than it should be. So anyway, so just to let you know, so it seems like this is just for show to. It's like chum to the hardcore MAGA supporters. It's Chum, because they're not doing anything else. They said they didn't do doge cuts. They, in fact they inflate. They exploded the deficit. They didn't go to the Pentagon and cut money. They didn't do any of that. The only thing they have, they didn't start. They're doing more foreign wars than anybody. They're still funding the Ukraine war, they're still funding the war in Gaza, the genocide in Gaza. They're still going to bombing Iran, they're going to go to war with Iran. They overthrew Venezuela, they're going to go into Colombia, Cuba, the whole deal. Yemen they bombed. So it's. So there's doing nothing that they claim. He's not giving anybody health care. In fact, he's making it more expensive. So the exact opposite of what they thought was going to happen is happening. And so my idea is that they throw these ICE raids and. And they make it very visible as chum to his base. What do you say, Kurt?

[Kurt]

Don't forget we're also paying 146 million a week to the Taliban still.

[Jimmy Dore]

And they can't vote that one down in Congress. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. Okay, so let's get back to what Tim Sundays. He's like, ICE raids, which are kind.

[Kurt]

Of performative and cruel and a bit.

[Jimmy Dore]

Psychotic, are not doing this administration any favors. They are. I think they're making people less concerned with immigration enforcement because they're equating all.

[Kurt]

Immigration enforcement to these random.

[Jimmy Dore]

Brutal raids where you see people that have been.

[Kurt]

Here 30 years, like hog tied and.

[Jimmy Dore]

Thrown into a van. He's got more to say then you have ice. And who the hell are they?

[Kurt]

We don't even know.

[Caleb Maupin]

These are people that like answered an ad on Craigslist.

[Jimmy Dore]

I mean, we.

[Caleb Maupin]

You don't even.

[Jimmy Dore]

I mean, these people who is joining ice, I mean, these people are so shot. The people who are joining ICE are so shot. You know, they just. They don't have anything going on.

[Kurt]

These are people who like a mole.

[Jimmy Dore]

Throughout because they like, they couldn't do like security at a mall.

[Kurt]

They like, you know, I don't know.

[Jimmy Dore]

What they did, but they're out now. They maybe attacked a child or something. So I don't know who's, you know, these are. They got ICE in there. Hang on, here's one more. I don't believe the cop was justified in shooting her three times in the face, by the way. I've always believed this, and this is something that I've caught heat for, but I'VE literally believed it since I'm a kid. I don't believe you should ever shoot someone in the face more than once. I've. No, seriously. I think. I just think it's ridiculous so that they did that and they, you know, the guy. These are. These are not well trained law enforcement people in ice right now. We are taking people that did backyard wrestling. I mean, we are.

[Caleb Maupin]

The people that are in ice right now are.

[Jimmy Dore]

I mean, this is your cousin who, like, was in backyard wrestling. Like, this is tough. This is not the cream of the crop. You know, the guys that kidnapped Maduro, like, Delta Force, Navy SEALs. This is not them. This is not the Delta Force Navy SEAL people. This is people that, like, had. This is people. In their third grade report card, the teacher wrote that has violent tendencies. You know, I mean, this is not.

[Kurt]

It's just.

[Jimmy Dore]

Is what it is. It is what it is. So even. Even Joe Rogan got in on it. Uh, let's. Let's listen. You don't want militarized people in the.

[Keaton Weiss]

Streets just roaming around, snatching people up, many of which turn out to actually be U.S. citizens. They just don't have their papers on them.

[Jimmy Dore]

Are we really gonna be the. The Gestapo? Where's the papers? Is that what we've come to? Yes, yes, that is what we've come to, yes. Pretty quickly. Very, very quickly.

[Keaton Weiss]

Once someone is here, they should be.

[Jimmy Dore]

Able to stay in this country. And ICE is operating illegally.

[Keaton Weiss]

And we shouldn't have militarized groups of.

[Jimmy Dore]

People, right, Roaming the streets, just showing.

[Keaton Weiss]

Up with masks on, snatching people up, some of them US Citizens, and shipping.

[Jimmy Dore]

Them to countries they didn't even come from.

[Caleb Maupin]

So that's why they have to wear a mask.

[Keaton Weiss]

If you want them to do that job. If you want them to be able to deport 500,000 people over a year, which is a lot of. A lot of people.

[Jimmy Dore]

Yeah, they're not doing that. You know, they're going to be.

[Keaton Weiss]

Their life's going to be at stake. You're not going to be able to get people to do the job unless you allow them to be anonymous. And then again, allowing them to be anonymous creates a whole host of other problems where you could have people pretend.

[Jimmy Dore]

To be them, and how would you know who's who and who's not? So he's right about all that and the number of 500,000 people they're going to deport. Well, I was told that Joe Biden let in 10 to 12 million people, so that wouldn't even make a dent Anyway, so again, this is all performative and none of the jobs that you wanted him deported from. Right? Like, they're late, you know, so dress up like superheroes, Jimmy.

[Kurt]

That's my solution.

[Jimmy Dore]

So he asked, so he asks, where are they coming from? They're not sending their best. This isn't the cream of the crop that, as Tim Dillon said, these are guys who are doing backyard wrestling. And now we know this as a fact that the guys were like working at TJ Maxx and a Marshalls. And then they go and they apply for ICE and boom, you're. You're hired. You want to know how easy it is to get hired at ice? Because here's, uh. Someone went in and a female ex military woman went and applied to see how easy it was. A writer for Slate, Laura Jadeed. What happened? So you've heard about who ICE is recruiting. The truth is far worse. And I'm, and I'm the proof what happens when you do minimal screening before hiring agents, arming them and sending them into the streets. Well, we're all finding out. This is. I mean, ICE has about the same requirements to join a biker gang with the exclusion of knowing how to ride a motorcycle. So you don't have to know you.

[Kurt]

I mean, I bet it's not even as good as a biker gang.

[Jimmy Dore]

They really vet people in those gangs that actually. They do. Yeah, they. They do. But here she is. A few months ago, ICE hired me. I didn't sign and submit any paperwork. I'm real outspoken about my opinion of the Trump administration and I'm extremely Googleable. And yet there it was in plain English. Welcome to ice. And this is the, this is the article she wrote. The ICE Expo she went to. So she's. I'm just going to give you a couple of clips. It's a long article, so let's give you a couple of clips. It's on ProPublica. I mean, no, it's from Slate. And so she. Ex military. She knew it would get her an interview. So she goes down and. Well, here's what happened. The ICE Expo in the Dallas area, where my application journey began, required attendees to register for a specific time slot, presumably to prevent throngs of eager patriots from flooding the event and overwhelming the recruiters. But when I showed up at 9am the flood was notably absent. There was no line to check in and no line to go through security. I walked down nearly empty hallways, past a nearly empty drug testing station, passed a nearly empty and into the event proper, where a man directed me To a line to wait in for an interview. I took my spot at the end. There were only six people ahead of me. Wow. Wow. What's worse than a rando nutcase suddenly given a badge and a gun? How about that? They're also trained in Israel.

[Kurt]

Did they even get enough? I think they only got 47 days of training because Trump is the 47 something.

[Jimmy Dore]

Oh, no kidding.

[Kurt]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Dore]

So while I waited, I looked around the esports stadium in Arlington. An enormous blacked out event space optimized for video game tournaments that had the capacity of 2,500. During my visit, there couldn't have been more than 150 people there. Will ICE have enough people? Are we gonna. After about 15 minutes of waiting, an extraordinary normal looking middle aged woman waved me forward. I sat across the black folding table from her on an uncomfortable black chair. She asked for my name and date of birth and whether I'm over 40. I'm 38. Did I have law enforcement experience? No. Military experience? Yes. Did I retire from the military at 20 plus years or leave once my enlistment was up? The latter, I told her, then repeated my carefully rehearsed, completely true explanation for why the resume I submitted had a large gap. I had a little bit of a quarter life crisis, ended up going to college for part of that time. And since then I've been kind of gig economy stuff. She was spectacularly uninterested.

[Kurt]

Well, in fairness, wouldn't you be that.

[Jimmy Dore]

Way if someone said that to you? Okay, and what location is your preference? That was her response to that? That was her response to that. Minneapolis. So basically joining ICE requires the same amount of time as getting a medical marijuana license in Los Angeles, which you don't have to get anymore. Yeah, you know what? It was a big step process and I got robbed while doing it. I remember because I was just visiting. After some. After some dithering, I settled on my home state of New York. That's what she said. That was the last question. The entire price process took less than six minutes. The woman took my resume, placed the form she'd been filling out on top. They are prioritizing current law enforcement. First they're going to adjudicate your resume. She told me if my application passed muster, I'd receive an email about the next steps, which could arrive in the next few hours, but would likely take a few days. I left, thanked her for her time and prepared to hear back. Never. The truth, my experience suggests is perhaps even scarier. She got hired, by the way. ICE's recruitment push is so sloppy that the administration effectively has no idea who's joking, joining the agency ranks. So as Tim Dillon said, who are these people? That exactly Right. These are people who are doing backyard wrestling. Last week they're working at TJ Maxx or a Marshalls or an Applebee's. I'll bet there's illegals. I bet you. How much you want to bet. We're all collectively in the dark about whom the state is arming, tasking with the most sensitive of law enforcement work and then sending into America's streets. And we are all collectively discovering just how deadly arrangement that really is. And so guess what? So they responded to Homeland Security, responded to her. They said, this is such a lazy lie. The individuals never offered a job at ice. Applicants may receive a tentative selection letter following their initial application and interview. That is not, not a job offer. It just means they are invited to a summit information to submit information for review similar to any other applicant. Okay, I've never heard of a tentative selection letter. So let me just let you know that that's lie that ICE is so sloppy, not only in their hiring practices, but in their responding to people calling out their sloppy. They're even sloppier then their hiring practices and calling out the people calling out their hiring practices. Okay, I hope you follow because here she got it. Here it is. It says welcome to ice. The first thing says application status check. The second one says tentative offer check. Pre employment check. Final offer check. Number five, we are onboarding. This is the fifth thing they sent her and it's her onboarding. Welcome. Sound tentative. Welcome to ICE. Your duty location is New York, New York. Your EOD was on Tuesday, September 30, 2025. So that's. So she's onboarded. So now they're doing their PR blitz against this woman. Okay, so they're doing. So they're paying influencers to try to. To try to discredit her. That's what they do. Like they do to everybody. Like they did to be with Seth Rich and forced to vote like they did doing the Candace O right now over this Charlie Kirk thing, like they do to anybody who tells the truth about anything. They put out a swarm of bots who are paid astroturfed to discredit them. So they were trying to do that to this woman. And she says, and so in fact they did it themselves. And of course Homeland Security got community noted trying to respond to this woman saying their hiring practices were sloppy. And there it is. So she says. So she comes back and says the new line seems to be that I lied to ice, so of course they hired me. Which first off, would also be a pretty big problem, me lying and them not catching it. So that's what they're trying to say now. Oh, this woman lied to ice. She's a liar. She's a liar. She says, well, if I did lie to them, why did they hire me? They didn't catch me lying. But here's the thing. I didn't lie. I used my real name, date of birth, and Social Security number. My resume was 100% accurate. I didn't go in there intending to get hired. She didn't think she would get hired. I intended to get in the door, hand in my accurate resume, and get out before they figured out who I was. And then I would write an article about it. And you all can, she says, and you all can cope and see, then pretend it's fine that ICE is, is handing out guns to literally anyone. But it's very hard to take your whole anyone who opposes ICE is a domestic terrorist thing seriously when you're simultaneously arguing that I should be hiring those people. That was really funny. So Tim Dillon was spot on. And Joe Rogan's right that that's why they have to wear masks. Well, that's kind of a big one there. I, I, how was that allowed?

[Kurt]

And nobody said anything.

[Jimmy Dore]

The masks. People are saying. People are saying things, but, but nobody with any power. You can go F yourself, though, I guess, would be the reason. Yeah, that's you go F yourself. So I, I good on Tim Dillon. I mean, they've lost Tim Dillon, they've lost Joe Rogan, they've lost them. It's over. And so now they got to tell Dan Bongino to quit his deputy director job at FBI to go back to podcasting to see if they can try to turn the narrative again. Because they've lost the podcasting narrative. I don't think Donkey Kong Geno could do it, and I don't. He can't. He can't. The thing that made Trump's candidacy powerful is that he aligned people like centrists and libertarians with ultra right wingers and MAGA people, and they all came together. Well, now that's all gone. They lost Tucker Carlson, they lost Candace Owens, they lost Tim Dillon, Andrew Schultz, Joe Rogan, Dave Smith and all the libertarian. They lost it all. It's all over.

[Kurt]

Well, the real prize was the Zionist friends we made.

[Jimmy Dore]

Yes, the real prize. And so now, as I'm going to show you in another segment. Now that the part that ICE is literally paying influencers to post positive things about ice. Oh cool. That's a great use of funds.

[Kurt]

Not like training or anything.

[Jimmy Dore]

Yeah. Okay. And if you'd like to hear my jokes about this, come see me February 20th in Lansing, Michigan February 21st in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Go to Jimmy Dore.com for a link for tickets. Come see me live on tour February 20th at Lansing, Michigan February 21st in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Go to Jimmy Dore.com for a link for tickets. Hey, you know, here's another great way you can help support the show is you become a Premium member. We give you a couple of hours of premium bonus content every week and it's a great way to help support the show. You can do it by going to jimmy dork.com clicking on join Premium. It's the most affordable premium program in the business and it's a great way to help put your thumb back in the eye of the bastards. Thanks for everybody who was already a Premium member. And if you haven't, you're missing out. We give you lots of bonus content. Thanks for your support. Confronting high credit card debt can feel scary, but the good news is if you owe $10,000 or more in credit card debt, financial relief options are now available. National Debt Relief is currently offering debt relief designed to reduce what you owe and put you on the fast track to becoming debt free. If you qualify for debt relief, you may be able to pay back less than what you owe and save thousands of dollars. Just visit nationaldebtrelief.com Imagine only paying one low monthly program payment you can afford and saving money as you become debt free. National Debt Relief has already helped bring debt relief to over 550,000 US consumers, earning thousands of five star reviews and and an A rating with the Better Business Bureau. You're stronger than your credit card debt. Let today be the day you start turning things around. Take the first step and visit nationaldebtrelief.com to see what debt relief you may qualify for. That's national debt relief.com let's talk about Iran because there's a lot of reports coming out that Iran is killing their protesters and somehow, even though it took over a year for the United States to get an accurate count of how many people died on 9 11. Then in five seconds they've got an accurate count of how many people are being killed in Iran. But here is Iraqi Christian foundation says there is no difference between the Iraq war and the current US Drive towards war with Iran. Just as With Iran, starvation sanctions were used against the Iraqi population for many years. Pre 2003, Western media pushed the same propaganda about Iraq's government. Pre war neocons became obsessed with Iraq to an evil degree for decades. And terrorists were trained by the CIA to infiltrate, infiltrate and terrorize Iraq. Pre war, the chalidian catholics being the terrorist first targets. Another forever war may start soon. No different than previous forever wars. Something Donald Trump promised he wouldn't let happen. And of course that's exactly what's happening. And I just want to real quick from the gray zone. Western media is whitewashing deadly riots in Iran, relying on US government funded regime change NGOs. NGOs are non governmental organizations. So here's the former CIA agent John Kiriakou. He's going to let us know that when they tell you that Iran is killing their own people right now. And that's being used as the reason why we have to go in. And because we care about the Iranian people. That's what this is all about. We really care about them just like we care about the Venezuelan people, just like we cared about the Syrian people, just like we cared about the Iraqi people. Just like. So it's all a big yank. It's the same stupid, stupid story. And so here's what John Kiriakou has to say. Where they're getting their numbers from. Listen to where they're getting their numbers from. The US Media. I'm cnn, the Wall Street Journal. I looked at them all last night and they're all saying, oh my God.

[Kurt]

It'S murder in the streets in Iran.

[Jimmy Dore]

Oh my God, this human rights organization is saying, you know, 172 dead. Okay, that human rights organization based in London and it's funded by the Israelis and Iranians in exile. And then, oh my God, there's this.

[Kurt]

Other human rights organization, it's saying 500 dead.

[Jimmy Dore]

Yeah, that one's in Washington and they take money from the CIA, so you can't.

[Kurt]

So there's no reliable information.

[Jimmy Dore]

There's no reliable information. Now are people being killed in Iran? Absolutely, yes. But think of this too. Do we know that these people aren't being killed by. By Israeli backed protesters? Because the Israelis have been bragging over the weekend that they're the ones backing the protesters. And I'll add another thing that literally.

[Kurt]

No one is reporting protesters set on fire.

[Jimmy Dore]

48 fire engines in Tehran. 48 fire engines so that they cannot respond to fires. Why? Because it's the Israeli backed protesters setting shit on fire. And this is just to make it worse.

[Kurt]

Now the thing is, okay, so for people who are listening and are thinking, okay, John's being conspiratorial and blah, blah, blah, let's not forget that we know that Iran is riddled with people on the Mossad payroll because of the fact that like they provided the targeting information for the Israeli US Military attacks against.

[Jimmy Dore]

Atomic scientists and, and, and military sites in Iran recently.

[Keaton Weiss]

Right.

[Kurt]

We know that we talked about here.

[Jimmy Dore]

On the show before any of these protests started about how Iran has a.

[Kurt]

Serious Israel problem in terms of infiltration.

[Jimmy Dore]

So I just want to, you know, provide a little context there. Yeah, I just, my, I think my.

[Kurt]

Point here is to remind everybody that there are two sides to a story.

[Jimmy Dore]

And we're only getting the Israeli side. Right. The Israelis are backing Reza Pahlavi. The Israelis are backing these so called human rights organizations. The Israelis are the ones demanding that US Policy be that Iran doesn't have any missiles. So we just have to be very careful to. So here's one of the things they're not reporting. Western media has ignored a growing trove of video evidence showing terrorist tactics deployed across Iran by protesters described by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch as largely peaceful. So of course. So here's one more recent videos published by both Iranian state media and anti government forces reveal public lynchings of unarmed guards, the torching of mosques, arson attacks on municipal buildings, marketplaces and fire stations, and mobs of armed gunmen opening fire in the heart of Iranian cities. Instead, Western media has focused almost exclusively on violence attributed to the Iranian government. And so there. And who are they relying on? They're relying on the CIA backed Human Rights and the ned, which is the National Endowment for Democracy, which is just another cutout of the CIA. And I'm so do you think the American people are going to fall for this again?

[Kurt]

Yes. I mean, sadly they shouldn't. You know, one thing that's missing there, over 100 Iranian police officers have been murdered by these mobs. Could you imagine the reaction in the United States if 100 cops were killed by mobs firing, you know, weapons and burning them to death? I mean, it would be over. We'd mobilize everything and kill everything. There's a war taking place in Iran, but it's a war that's prompted by the, this, the, by the Mossad, by the CIA. It's a war that's been planned for some time now. And you know, when the, when the protest first started, the first day or two, they were peaceful protests and there was nobody dying. The Iranian government Didn't go in to kill protesters. In fact, the President of Iran is very sympathetic to the protesters. I just want to remind people that it was the Iranian protests about that poor Kurdish girl that died in police custody over the hijab incident. There was violence there. You know what happened from that? Women don't have to wear the hijab in Iran anymore. You can go to Tehran, go to the mall. And they got their hair hanging free, hanging down, running free. Because the Iranian president listens to the Iranian people. And when these protests first started, he was walking with them. But then the Israelis moved in their cellular structures, brought out their weapons and started murdering people, burning a three year old girl to death, burning nurses to death and killing over 100 cops. And so the Iranians responded, shooting at the people, shooting at them. And yes, there are dead people, but you know, not in the numbers that are being put out there. I mean, these ridiculous numbers. 12 to 20,000. Hell, we fought the battle of bulge for over a month with millions of Americans fighting millions of Germans with the most violent weapons at the time. And 19,000Americans died. I mean, do you understand how much violence actually happened to kill 12 to 20,000 people? It isn't happening. But hundreds of people are dying, being killed, you know, fighting in this combat between Israeli Mossad agents and Iranian security forces. That's, that's the reality of it. Not going to be reported because the truth isn't what we want to hear.

[Jimmy Dore]

So this is from the Jerusalem Post. The Mossad spurs Iran protests says agents with demonstrators. Says agents with demonstrators in Farsi message. So as protests grow across Iran, the Mossad posted an unusual Farsi message urging demonstrators to act, saying it is with them in the streets amid rising economic pressure and public unrest. So this, so is there any doubt that this is another one of these CIA, Mossad inspired protests? And like they take a normal protest and they make it go crazy and they fund money, then they're sending, they're also sending arms to these protesters too. The Mossad. Do you have, is there any doubt in your mind that that's what's happening?

[Kurt]

No, this, this, this dates back to at the end of the Bush administration transitioning to Obama administration. There was a guy named Jared Cohen who worked for the Bush administration State Department. He came up with a concept called digital democracy. And basically it was using the Internet to, to rally the youth of these different nations, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, to become pro Western and to rise up against their people. Digital democracy became the heart of what the CIA. CIA's regime change operations in Syria and in Iran, they tried. You know, the Green movement back in 2009 was a CIA operation using digital democracy. It's the same model now that the Mossad and the CIA have been perfecting over time. They last tried it in the summer of 2023. They failed. But no, there's no doubt about this, Jimmy, they made a mistake. The Israelis, and they rarely do. But the communication tool that they used to communicate with these cells that they had in these Mossad agents was Starlink. They were sold on this by Elon Musk. But the Russians have great experience with Starlink too because of Elon Musk providing it to the Ukrainians. And the Russians have broken the code on Starlink. And they have the ability to a jam it and detect it and monitor it. And they provided this to the Iranians. Ask yourself why there's a three day Internet blackout? Because Iran shut it all down to silence the communications between these people. The Israelis panicked and tried to send in new Starlink terminals. The Iranians captured all of this. You know, this has been a Western funded, Western directed, Western organized, Western equipped operation from the very beginning and the Iranians know it. It's not, it's not that they're guessing. The Iranians have been monitoring this. They have all the evidence that proves that this is a Mossad operation.

[Jimmy Dore]

So just to let people know where another, where they're getting their information from. In assessing death toll in Iran, outlets throughout the US and Europe have depended on two NGOs based in Washington and funded by the US government's National Endowment for Democracy. What is the National Endowment for Democracy? The National Endowment for Democracy was created under the watch of the Reagan administration, CIA Director William Casey, to enable the government to continue meddling abroad despite widespread distrust in US intelligence. So one of its founders, Alan Weinstein, famously admitted, a lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA. So that's again, this is 100% CIA Mossad operation happening in Iran. You think the American people are going to fall for it? I know that Charlie Kirk was against this and I have a feeling that that also contributed to why he got offed. Because he had unbelievable popularity with the young generation of conservatives in the United States. And he was against it. And so they had to get rid of him. And I think that had a lot to do with it. And certainly after they tried to bribe him and he turned down their money, not taking it. I'm not going along with the Jewish donors and I'm not supporting Israel anymore. And before you. And he also, he put out polls. Let me see if I have it in here. Do I have it in here? Maybe I do, maybe I don't. No, I don't. But he put out a poll asking his own people on Twitter, do you support the US to participate in the Israeli war against Iran? That was in June. And 70% said no. And so I, So, I mean, do you. So aren't you. I guess maybe I'm just again, naive, but I don't think that people are going to fall for this as easily as they fell for the Iraq weapons of mass destruction.

[Kurt]

I wish you were right, but here I'm going to provide. Okay, pushback. First of all, Jimmy, you and I are on the same sheet. This war is stupid and it shouldn't be fought. It's a criminal war. But the American people have proven themselves to be extraordinarily susceptible to propaganda targeting peoples that don't look like them, speak different languages, sound differently, and remember, Iran has a, has a couple strikes against it. The theocracy that's in power now was behind the takeover of the U.S. embassy in 1979. You know, in 1980, we sent a rescue mission and it ended up blowing itself up in the desert, killing eight Americans. And there's deep resentment. The, you know, we blame Iran for the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut, 241 marines and soldiers and sailors killed. Iran was supporting the Shia, you know, insurgents in Iraq in 2004, 2005, killing, you know, 600, 800American soldiers. Now, we don't like to acknowledge that we had illegally invaded and occupied Iraq and the Iraqis had every right to defend themselves. We just say Iran was behind their deaths. The American people have been programmed to believe anything negative about Iran. And this is why these NGOs have great success on, on social media. I mean, you look at it, they just repeat the same lie over and over and over and over again. And then Joseph Goebbels notion, if you tell the lie often enough, people believe it. That's where I'm at. I don't know. I mean, you and I hang around, you know, I think similar crowd, we deal with intelligent people who ask questions, etc. But I don't think they reflect the majority of the American people. I think the majority of the American people, because they work two jobs, because they, you know, they're busy trying to make ends meet. When they come home, they don't have time to do the deep dig. And so they're prisoners to whatever news outlet they pick and the majority of the news outlets are either co opted by the deep state or you know, are repeating things that are promulgated by the deep state. And this is the messaging most Americans get. Hopefully they'll watch your show and see that this is all a lie. I hope this show goes viral. This show should go viral. People should be watching this and informing and empowering themselves with knowledge and information and understanding the lie. But it's too late. If we bomb Iran tonight, it's too late, Americans are going to die, our economy is going to be tanked. I mean man, we should have been making this case against this war. And I know you were. I know I was. But you know, we should have tried to stop this thing before it started and unfortunately we did because too many Americans believe the nonsense that's put out by the deep state controlled mainstream media.

[Jimmy Dore]

Well, I just want to show you how easily the media goes along with every war my whole life, every war, the media is pro war and they also, they're always quoting CIA deep state funded organizations. And here's another one. Wyatt Reid says the US funded NGO behind soaring Iran casualty figures in mainstream media just tripled its death toll to 2,000. And here it is, ABC News reports 2,000. But who is this? Who is reporting this? It's a data published by the US based Human rights activist news agency or hrana. And guess what, they admitted to taking money from the CIA. And so here's Ali Abunimah, he says the Main source claims 2,000 killed in Iran is the so called Human Rights Act. That's the same one and so they changed it to 2000. And he makes a great point. He says this is the same media who lied the Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction to lay the groundwork for US invasion. The same media who lied that Gaddafi was giving his soldiers Viagra to carry out mass rapes to justify NATO regime change war. The same media who lied about chemical attacks in Syria to justify a dirty war that now has Al Qaeda running Syria. The same media that lied that there were no Nazis being armed and funded in Ukraine. Of course the same media lied that Palestinians carried out campaign of mass grape on October 7 to justify Israel's genocide and are now telling you to believe that Iran is committing atrocities against its own people based on claims from US intelligence agencies and U. S backed opposition group to lay the groundwork for the next stage of the US Israel war on Iran. If you haven't learned yet, you never will. And here's what Max Blumenthal said so here's CBS saying it's 12,000. And he says this is why Barry Weiss was installed at cbs in case it wasn't already clear, so they could get their Iranian war going and that she would run cover for it with a powerful news agency like 60 Minutes and the CBS News division. Here's one more. A Today News Iran summary by grok blasted into my feed by the Twitter algorithm is pure disinformation. The 12,000 dead protesters figure was concocted by sources meaning Israel and fed to Barry Weiss at cbs. One million people did not protest in Iran against their government. They demonstrated in support of their government. But of course they flip that so we're so go. Anything else you'd like to say about this disinformation program?

[Kurt]

Yeah, first of all, it's real. It's, it's real. You know, there was a movie made a while back called Wag the Dog, I think.

[Jimmy Dore]

Yeah.

[Kurt]

You're my age. So you, you're with Robert Dairo and Al Pacinoffman.

[Jimmy Dore]

Oh, Dustin Hoffman. That's right.

[Kurt]

They, there's a, you know, he plays a character basically. He's a government spin meister and his job was to fabricate a war. War. It's real. Look, I, I, as a weapons inspector, I saw the CIA carry out information operations. I saw the British intelligence. There are people, I mean, in England, the, the MI6 has an entire division called information operations. And their job is to manufacture justification for anything or to spread like they came up with the, you know, Saddam hid biological weapons and perfume bottles and he could attack England in 45 minutes. They make it all, all up and they, they have connections in the press. That was the interesting thing is that they own the press. They own the media and they're able to shovel data. Cnn, Jimmy, cnn. I know you're probably a big fan of CNN because they're so honest. CNN was an adjunct of the CIA when this, when the CIA needed to run, run a counter information operation against the Iraqis, they brought CNN in to do their bidding. CNN is a CIA adjunct and I would say the same thing about CBS and Barry White. This is real. There are the CIA in their paramilitary branch. They have an entire group that's dedicated to political operations. And this is about spreading disinformation. And they target the American people. They're not allowed to by law, but they do. So our mainstream media organizations are populated by people who work for the CIA or on the CIA's payroll. You look at the talking heads that rotate through. They're all former intelligence officer. I'm one, but I didn't get the gig. You know, this is probably, it's not just the National Endowment for Democracy. This is, this is big picture stuff where our government is in the business of fabricating lies and selling those lies to the American people using journalistic outlets that are supposed to be trusted, but none of them are to be trusted.

[Keaton Weiss]

Welcome to the Jimmy Dore show, everybody. Keaton Weiss here with Caleb Maupin. So Caleb, you are New York City based and you hit the streets after the United States attack on Venezuela. You published this video where you interviewed some of the anti war protesters in Times Square. So this is an 11 minute video. I did a little 2 minute cut of it, a little trailer cut. So we'll take a look at that now and then we'll talk more.

[Caleb Maupin]

Testers gathered here in Times Square to oppose the US Attack on Venezuela and the kidnapping of Nicolas Maduro. The protesters don't buy the claims about gangs and drugs. They say this is about oil and regime change. And Donald Trump is betraying the promise he made on the campaign trail to not invade countries and start new wars. So we had an opportunity to speak with a few of the protesters. They gave us their perspective.

[Jimmy Dore]

Trump is controlled by the billionaire class. Trump is doing their bidding.

[Caleb Maupin]

He has violated every promise that he.

[Keaton Weiss]

Made to his base.

[Jimmy Dore]

Okay, and why?

[Keaton Weiss]

Because he is a puppet of the billionaires.

[Jimmy Dore]

What do I think about Venezuela? The same thing I thought about Iraq. The same thing I thought about Libya. All right. That we will do whatever is necessary to get the oil and the resources of another country. And we say that it's about democracy. That is are so ridiculous. I don't know how those words can come out of his mouth or any of the other neoliberal mouths, etc, but yeah. So how do I feel about what's happening in Venezuela? I just think it's showing that we have turned into the evil empire. That we have turned into the evil empire.

[Caleb Maupin]

I hoped that 2026 was going to.

[Jimmy Dore]

Be a better new year, but doesn't look like it. Okay, thank you.

[Caleb Maupin]

Okay. What do you mean come here? Meaning we should pay fair market and we should give them what they, what.

[Keaton Weiss]

We owe them and we shouldn't be.

[Caleb Maupin]

Bombing them for free oil. Why do you think this happened?

[Kurt]

The US wants Venezuela's oil is the main thing. All the rest is is just superficial, you know, clap trap mainly around the oil and other resources.

[Caleb Maupin]

A lot of people voted for Trump hoping he would end the wars, but yeah, he didn't.

[Kurt]

Obviously he's made it worse. And he's conducting war against working people.

[Jimmy Dore]

In the US as well.

[Kurt]

And that's the connection we need to make. So it's not just the old leftists who come out for everything, but.

[Caleb Maupin]

It'S.

[Kurt]

Critical for working people in the US as well as people in around the.

[Jimmy Dore]

Rest of the world.

[Keaton Weiss]

Okay, so that was some of the protesters. But of course, what really sells on social media is conflict. And so this got up to a little over half a million views at the time I clipped this. There were counter protesters there, confronted some Venezuelan exiles on the streets of New York City cheering for the death of their own people. So these are people who were celebrating the kidnapping of Maduro, and you were not shy about telling them what you. You thought of them.

[Caleb Maupin]

You all should be ashamed of yourself. Your own people are going to be the next Iraqi refugees.

[Jimmy Dore]

Millions of your own people are going.

[Caleb Maupin]

To die, and you're cheering for the.

[Jimmy Dore]

Death of your own people.

[Kurt]

You're cheering for the death.

[Jimmy Dore]

Americans are going to die, cheering for.

[Keaton Weiss]

The death of their own people.

[Jimmy Dore]

Shame on you.

[Keaton Weiss]

You're traitors to your country.

[Jimmy Dore]

You're traitors to your country. They're traitors. They're murderers.

[Caleb Maupin]

Traitors to their country, celebrating the death.

[Jimmy Dore]

Of their own people. Millions of people are going to die. Venezuelans are going to die.

[Caleb Maupin]

Shame on you.

[Jimmy Dore]

Shame on you. Shame on you. War.

[Kurt]

You're cheering for the death of Americans.

[Caleb Maupin]

Americans like me are going to die.

[Jimmy Dore]

On the streets of Venezuela. Shame on you.

[Caleb Maupin]

I don't want Americans like me to.

[Jimmy Dore]

Die so the bankers can get rich. Shame on you.

[Keaton Weiss]

All right, so I feel like you're going to give me the same answer as the last segment. Well, you know, emotions were high that day. I promise I didn't bring you out here to apologize for your high emotions, but, yeah, tell us about that interaction.

[Caleb Maupin]

Well, a lot of people have said to me, caleb, you're not going to convince those people. And I said, well, I know that this is the age of social media. This is performance, right? And I was there to confront them.

[Keaton Weiss]

But look, you definitely put the agit in agit prop.

[Caleb Maupin]

Yeah, you know, we. You know, I go to Russia all the time, and I'm not a big fan of the American government. When I go to Russia, I don't say, bomb America, kill them. Americans, invade America and arrest all the American leaders and destroy. I don't do that. I say, I would like a better relationship between America and Russia. The last thing I would ever want is some kind of direct confrontation between the Two countries, right? And that I don't. I don't hate my own people. And there is. There is a layer with these exile communities of these folks. First of all, it's really sad that they have aligned themselves with Trump, because Trump's whole thing is, I'm going to make America great. Those folks don't care about making America great. They're mad at Maduro. They're on the other side of a conflict, and they could. They don't give two shits about America. They just want the other side, the people that wronged them, that they're angry with, to pay. And the same goes for the shahs of Sunset park and the Persian exile community. They don't care about America. They just want revenge against the ayatollahs, Right? And the same goes for the, the, the. The Shenyan, the Fallen Gong. You think they care about America? No. They want to. They want to get revenge on the Chinese government and the Chinese Communist Party. That's all they want. And, you know, Trump says he's for America. These people don't care about America. These are exile communities. And, you know, I often tell people, you know, when you, when you encounter one of these people, a lot of people think they know about Venezuela or they know about China or they know about Iran because they talk to one of these people. Well, you know, that would be like saying, you know about the Civil War, because you talked about, you talked to Miss Scarlett from Gone with the Wind. I do declare, Captain Butler. Them Yankees, they came down and burned everything. It was horrible. It was horrible. She wouldn't be lying. That's how Ms. Scarlet probably saw it. But, you know, the slaves probably had a different perspective. People in the north had a different perspective. You know, I mean, they're giving their perspective. They came to the enemy of their country, the country that's trying to overthrow their country, because they're on the opposite side. And they may be telling the truth about their experience. They may exaggerate a little bit. I know people joke about the, the Cuban exiles, right? I think there's a, a cartoon of two dogs, right? And one dog says to the other dog, you know, I was a Great Dane when I was back in Cuba, you know, so sometimes they exaggerate, you know, but regardless, they may be sharing their perspective. They don't represent the, the majority perspective. Look, Eastern Europe is a great example, right? In America, you will meet all kinds of people from Lithuania and Latvia and all kinds of places. They'll tell you how awful is. They do polls in every Single Eastern European country where people overwhelmingly say life was better before the fall of the Soviet Union. And you can Google this, the New York Times reports on this is widely understood that all across the Eastern block people say life was way better before the collapse of communism, before the fall of the Soviet Union. So that person that you met on the street from Romania who told me their told you their life was horrible and life wasn't perfect, and they probably are describing real hardships that existed. They don't represent the majority of what people in that country think. When I was in Russia, one thing that just, you know, just is a great illustration of this is, you know, I have people say to me, well, Caleb, haven't you ever talked to anyone who actually lived under communism? Well, you know, in Russia, the Communist Party is the party of the elderly. It's the party of pensioners, the people who actually lived under it, the people who remember it. And that's kind of the stereotype of the Russian Communist Party is that's the party for the old people. Well, they're the ones who remember what it was like. And Soviet nostalgia is at an all time high in Russia. And Stalin is wildly popular in Russia right now because they see Stalin as somebody who held the country together and defeated the foreign invader. Maybe they don't appreciate his atrocities and all of that, but they recognize that, that Stalin was somebody who lifted the country up from nothing and withstood a foreign invasion. So again, you know, a lot of things are very, very skewed. And, and you know, I like to, you know, be theatrical and confront those folks. But I also made a point of saying, you know, and I had a lot of people come at me and say, oh, what do you, you think, you know, more than us or whatever? Well, I'm, I'm honestly concerned about. I went to high school with a lot of people who have joined the military and are serving in the military. A lot of people from the town I grew up in, in Ohio have joined the military. And I don't want them to get shot down on the streets of Caracas so that Wall street bankers can make more money and have more of a monopoly on the oil markets. And I think that's a legit concern for Americans to have. And I think I have just as much right to say that because being a white American, being from the United States, I have just as much right to say that as they have the right to be out there and say war against Venezuela. You know, I have my freedom to say that.

[Keaton Weiss]

Well, sure, and I I always find the. Well, I noticed you didn't talk to any Venezuelans on the anti war side. It's, it's such a self selecting sample because the, the, a lot of the Venezuelans who came here are the Venezuelans who fled. Just like a lot of the Cubans in Miami are very, very conservative because they're the ones who fled Castro. So they're the ones who couldn't bear to live there under Castro. So of course they are going to be oppositional. Right. It seems to me to be a kind of a non point that well, a lot of Venezuelans who what who live in New York are for regime change in Venezuela. That, that's, that's neither surprising nor interesting to me really. But there is another element that I want to highlight here because I think this is really important. This segment is about protest. And I don't think either of us have any problem with protest. In fact, we encourage people to exercise their right to protest. But o' Malley Ishatella, chairman of the African People's Socialist Party, who I know you have done a lot of great work with, we've been working with them two, we are producing a documentary about them. We shot some footage into St. Louis over the summer. We'll be editing that together this year, possibly making a second trip, in fact, likely making a second trip to go and film some more stuff over the spring. But one of the things that's really inspiring about them is that they, yes, they protest, but they also build. And here is Chairman o' Malley in a video that you clipped and tweeted out talking about the importance of, of building our own systems as opposed to simply and merely protesting against the current.

[Jimmy Dore]

One that we have with the colonizer. You can assume that this is permanent.

[Caleb Maupin]

That is never going to change.

[Jimmy Dore]

And the only thing you can, the most you can do is protest how it treats you. That's nothing in this instance. The movement is everything and the revolution is nothing. We say that instead of protesting the world as it is, we have to be in. Let me put this a different way. Instead of only protesting the world as it is, we have to be involved in building the world that we want. And that's what it is that we do in the African people social. And that's what we're saying to people here today. We shouldn't be taken off task with just protest. We have to double down and build the African People Socialist Party. We have to double down and build the economic development programs. That negates the power of the colonizer in our Own community. If we have our own capacity to feed, clothe and house ourselves, it impacts on all of the industries that make themselves rich off of having crippled us and our capacity to do that. The whole social system requires the appearance of dependency of African people.

[Keaton Weiss]

Yeah, so to. To his point there, you know, when we were filming the documentary over the summer, we went to their farmer's market, One Africa, One Nation farmers market. And that's a perfect example of what he's talking about there. It's just this community effort really organized around socialist principles. They have a community garden where they grow all of this great organic food and give it out to people who need it for free. They don't charge any money for it. They have artisans come and sell their crafts. They have a bookstore where they have all kinds of literature about cointelpro and all the efforts by the United States government to sabotage black power movements. They have a T shirt stand with Free Palestine, you know, merch that you could buy that funds the movement. Just this amazing example of economic power in the hands of colonized people. Now you can look at that and you say, well, what's that? It's just a farmer's market on one corner in North St. Louis. And that's true. It's a relatively small thing, but it's something. It's something. And you see the energy at a place like that and the productivity of a place like that and the warmth of spirit that's just in the air at a place like that, because there are people actually taking things into their own hands and building things and accomplishing things. And that kind of power begets more power. And as you were talking about in the last segment, I think the left has really developed this unhealthy addiction to losing and losing power. So building power in that way is, I think, hugely important to highlight because these are, let's face it, man, these. These are kind of bleak times. And so organizing, even if it's something as small as a farmer's market somewhere or attending a conference somewhere, is something that we can do. This is a conference that you guys have coming up, the center for Political Innovation, as I understand you're going to have representatives from the Uhuru movement there.

[Caleb Maupin]

Yeah, well, we're giving an award to one of their close friends in New Jersey, a woman named Lisa Davis, and she is somebody who has organized the Black Is Back Coalition, was a leader of the Uhuru Solidarity Coalition. We're giving her an award for her lifelong work of anti imperialism, as well as some other. Other people, local activists, we're going to honor Jessica Coco, who been a long time, you know, anti imperialist, anti war activist in New Jersey. We're also going to honor Christina Khalil, who ran for office as a Green Party candidate in New Jersey. My reaction to that clip. Look, Chairman o' Malley is a genius, right? And I hope that that has come across to you in the same level it has come across to me. You know, I think Jesus in the Bible, he said, you shall know them by their fruits. You can see the fruits of his work. I mean, the community centers and the houses and the farmers markets. I mean, he has built, built, built. And, I mean, he has built and constructed. And that's why they were targeted the way they were targeted. The government and the power structure is far more threatened by the building and the construction of popular power that he has done in St. Louis, Missouri and St. Petersburg, Florida. They're far more threatened by that than they are by people just getting together and holding signs and saying that things suck, you know, which is important. People need to do that. It's very important to protest things that go on that are wrong.

[Jimmy Dore]

And.

[Caleb Maupin]

But when you build community and you build apparatus where people are getting services and learning and being educated at the same time that they're building an apparatus to care for themselves as the system falls around them. And what Chairman o' Malley has done is astounding. I am just in absolute awe of that man. He's, I think, what, 82 years old or maybe how old?

[Keaton Weiss]

I think he's a little older now. I think he's. I think he's 84 now. My apologies to the chairman if I'm, If I'm. If I'm overestimating. And just so everybody knows, we don't have to get into it, because it's kind of a long story. But for those who are not familiar with the government's attack on o' Malley and his movement, he was basically Russiagated. They were accused of conspiring with Russians to sow discord in the United States based on their opposition to the Ukraine war. They essentially beat the charges. They were given no jail time. They were given no fines. They were acquitted of being foreign agents and convicted of attempting to become foreign agents in a very confused verdict which is under a fool appeal now. So just in case anybody was not familiar with the background, but, yeah, that is absolutely why they were targeted, because they're winners. And this movement, their movement is one of the few black power movements that actually was not crushed, that actually survived and actually persevered and this is why. Because they build and they organize.

[Caleb Maupin]

Yeah. No, he is something really, really special. I mean, he is a brilliant, brilliant person, a very, very dedicated person. There's just such a strength that just, you know, flows from him. I mean, you just, you know, his words and his. His mannerisms, Everything about him just speaks of power and strength and empowering people. And I just really, really look up to Chairman o', Malley, and I view him as kind of the model of what we need. We need more construction. We need more community. We need more building. We can't just focus on the negative. We can't just focus on. On how bad everything is. We have to build the new world ourselves. So, yes, thank you for playing that clip because it's exactly what I want to communicate to people.

[Jimmy Dore]

Hey, become a premium member. Go to jimmy door comedy.com sign up. It's the most affordable premium program in the business. All the voices performed today are by the one and only, the inimitable Mike McRae. He can be found at mikemcrae.com that's it for this week. You be the best you can be and I'll keep being me. Don't freak out. Don't freak out. Don't freak out. Don't freak out. Don't freak out.

[Keaton Weiss]

Out.

[Caleb Maupin]

I'm not kidding.

[Kurt]

Do not do that.

[Jimmy Dore]

Don't freak out. Do not freak out.