Charlie Kirk's Assassination & Erin Bates Paine's Crisis: Searching for Hope in a Dark Week

Summary

The Jinger & Jeremy Podcast

Episode: Charlie Kirk's Assassination & Erin Bates Paine's Crisis: Searching for Hope in a Dark Week
Date: September 17, 2025
Hosts: Jinger Vuolo, Jeremy Vuolo

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Episode Overview

In this particularly somber episode, Jinger and Jeremy reflect on an emotionally turbulent week marked by national tragedies and personal struggles. They discuss the assassination of conservative commentator Charlie Kirk, unfolding news of mass shootings, and the health crisis of their close friend, Erin Bates Paine. The episode is woven through with discussions of grief, faith, and the struggle to find hope amid overwhelming darkness, offering personal and theological perspectives on suffering, the nature of tragedy, and the resilience of hope.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Processing National and Personal Tragedies

• The episode opens with Jeremy and Jinger expressing the heaviness of the past week, referencing multiple high-profile events:

  • The assassination of Charlie Kirk
  • The mass shooting at Evergreen High School
  • The shooting at Annunciation Catholic School
  • Ongoing political violence

• Jinger shares how quickly devastating news arrives, sometimes through family group messages.

  • "It's almost too much to take. It's like, well, you don't know how to process that." – Jeremy (01:26)

• Both comment on how frequent tragedy in media can numb people, but some events force a collective pause and deeper reflection.

  • "We’re so inundated... we can scroll past something and say, oh, that’s so tragic... but there are certain times when your world just stops.” – Jinger (04:14-04:33)

2. Erin Bates Paine’s Health Crisis

• Erin, a close friend, went into septic shock shortly after giving birth to her seventh child.

  • "She had a kidney infection, a UTI... that basically put her body into septic shock... shortly after having her seventh baby." – Jinger (05:33)

• Emphasis on the unpredictability of life and God's sovereignty.

  • "There can be fear around it, and then at the same time, you… see also how sovereign God is in the midst of all of it." – Jinger (06:01)

• The strength of Erin’s faith and the testimony witnessed by hospital staff during her ordeal.

  • "You see the true heart of a person, what they're really made of, comes out in suffering." – Jeremy (07:07)

• The family’s community response, particularly a heartfelt letter from Erin’s daughter, underscores the impact of family faith.

  • Quote from Erin's daughter’s letter:
    "Mom, I will love you whatever happens and it's hard for me and you but there's a good thing you can see and can [not] see. God never said it was going to be okay But I know you can do this." – Read aloud (14:02-15:22)

3. Theological Reflections on Suffering

• Importance of preparing spiritually (“getting your theology right before you need it”) to withstand tragedy.
  • “You better get your theology right before you need it… you need to get your theology right now so that when you need it, you have it.” – Jeremy quoting Dave Muxlow (16:12)
• Understanding Biblical metaphors about suffering provides comfort and perspective in dark times.
  • "The sovereignty of God is the pillow on which [a] Christian lays their head." – Jeremy, quoting Charles Spurgeon (17:33)
• Christians’ response to suffering is to "weep with those who weep" rather than rushing to explain or make sense of tragedy.
  • "We don’t always need immediate explanation. We need theological truth." – Jeremy (17:33)
  • "There are times where we just need to pause and process." – Jeremy (19:53)

4. Reflections on Charlie Kirk’s Assassination

• Jinger's personal process of learning about Charlie Kirk: initial unfamiliarity, empathy as a mother, and appreciation for the robust, respectful dialogue he fostered.

  • “I immediately googled, who is Charlie Kirk?... I just was praying for God to spare his life. And then when I saw that he had a wife and two kids, that really hit me different.” – Jinger (26:32-27:04)

• Remembering Kirk’s focus on Christ in all his public engagements, regardless of political context.

  • "He would plead with people to turn to Christ. That was his number one message." – Jinger (29:00)

• The broader cultural significance: Kirk as a symbol for free speech and civil discourse, and the national shock caused by his assassination.

  • "They saw Charlie as representing freedom of speech and open dialogue... it's kind of what this country is built on..." – Jeremy (31:07)

• Guidance on the Christian response to violent persecution and loss: not vengeance but continued faithfulness.

  • Jeremy references Stephen’s martyrdom (Acts 7-8), highlighting the call for continued gospel proclamation rather than retaliation.
  • "You don’t pick up your own stones, you don’t pick up weapons to retaliate..." – Jeremy (34:44)

5. Grieving with Hope – The Reality of Loss and the Hope of Heaven

• Erica Kirk’s (Charlie’s wife) statement to their daughter, explaining Charlie’s death in a way a child could understand.

  • Quote:
    "He’s on a work trip with Jesus so he can afford your blueberry budget. And my goodness, am I so humbled to witness Charlie you alongside Jesus right now." – Erica, read by Jeremy (38:26)

• The deep need to focus on eternal hope and the promise of heaven as a balm amid suffering.

  • "It makes you want to remember more often the reality of heaven." – Jinger (39:25)
  • "There’s a time to mourn... there’s a time to laugh, there’s a time to mourn." – Jinger (40:22)

6. Biblical Encouragement and Call to Repentance

• Jeremy closes with passages reaffirming hope in eternity:

  • 2 Corinthians 4:
    “For this light, momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison...” (41:14-41:44)
  • Revelation 21:
    “He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more... for the former things have passed away.” (41:44-42:49)

• Jinger calls listeners to repentance and faith in Christ:

  • "You always think you have time to repent and turn to Christ, but now is the time..." – Jinger (43:10)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the overpowering sadness of the week:
  “There’s been a pall kind of spread across... just looking on social media and talking to friends... it feels like there’s been a collective pause in the nation, and hopefully that’s a good thing.” – Jeremy (04:33)

• On suffering and spiritual preparation:
  “You better get your theology right before you need it.” – Jeremy, quoting Dave Muxlow (16:12)

• From Erin’s daughter’s letter (read aloud by child):
  “God never said it was going to be okay, but I know you can do this.” (14:02-15:22)

• On the Christian response to evil:
  “You don’t pick up your own stones... The response of the Christian... is we just keep preaching the truth.” – Jeremy (34:44)

• Erica Kirk’s gentle explanation to her child:
  “He’s on a work trip with Jesus so he can afford your blueberry budget.” – Erica (38:26)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:55-04:33: The heaviness of the week, national tragedies, and the weight of processing these events
• 05:25-08:56: Erin Bates Paine’s health crisis and lessons in faith amidst vulnerability
• 14:02-15:22: Erin’s daughter’s letter and the profound wisdom of children in suffering
• 16:12-17:33: Advice on spiritual preparation before the trial hits
• 26:19-31:00: Jinger’s process learning about and reflecting on Charlie Kirk’s life and death
• 31:07-34:44: Charlie Kirk’s legacy of dialogue and Christian response to acts of violence
• 38:26-39:01: Erica Kirk’s words to her daughter after Charlie Kirk’s death
• 41:14-42:49: Scripture readings for encouragement and hope
• 43:10-44:15: An earnest call to hope beyond this life

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Tone & Language

True to Jinger and Jeremy’s warm, sincere, and faith-filled tone, the episode is marked by empathy, honesty about pain, and an unwavering focus on God’s faithfulness amid suffering. Theological reflections are gentle and practical, always returning to hope in Christ, with plenty of relatable, heartfelt asides.

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Summary

This episode of The Jinger & Jeremy Podcast is a poignant meditation on grief, suffering, and hope as the duo grapples with devastating news both nationally and personally. By weaving their own responses with biblical wisdom and personal stories, Jinger and Jeremy offer a gentle but powerful challenge: to prepare spiritually for hardship, to grieve honestly, to avoid quick fixes, and to cling to the true and lasting hope offered in Christ—even and especially in the darkest weeks.

Transcript

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[Ginger]

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[Jeremy]

This has been a pretty heavy week. There's just been so much going on. Even as we got news of Charlie Kirk being shot. Within the hour, we got news of Evergreen High School, a mass shooting there. Our personal friends Erin Bates has been.

[Ginger]

We'Ve been praying and she went into septic shock. I heard the news from a family group message with my family. They sent it out and immediately they said, charlie Kirk has been shot.

[Jeremy]

And it's almost too much to take. It's like, well, you don't know how to process that.

[Ginger]

As a mom, I couldn't imagine being in that place and having to tell my kids their daddy was not coming home. It's insane. And I think we're human and so it should affect us.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, there's moments like that where you don't, when you're in the midst of it, you're thrown into the midst of pain. You can't go, okay, wait, let me learn how to process this. One of our friends, Dave Muxlow, said, you better get your theology right before you need it. What's going on, guys? We are back for another episode of the Ginger and Jeremy podcast. And I think for ourselves, like many of you tuning in, this has been a pretty heavy week. And there's been a lot that has happened, even in the last few weeks, maybe the last month, both in the headlines. With the shooting at Annunciation Catholic School, we've had a lot happening politically with the political violence, both Charlie Kirk and Melissa Hortman and her husband in Minnesota, there's just been so much going on. Even as we got news of Charlie Kirk being shot. Within the hour, we got news of Evergreen High School, a mass shooting there. Our personal friends Aaron Bates has been. We've been praying and staying posted online as things and you can share a little bit more about that ginge but it's just been a heavy, heavy season. Irina Zarutska in Charlotte. It just seems like, you know, this is the world we live in. But I don't know, Ginger. It's just felt like a heavy season, hasn't it?

[Ginger]

Yeah, it's been a really heavy week. And I think when you realize, like, the. The weight of that on the lives of those who are walking through it, their families, their friends, their parents, the fear that students are facing in schools and the public sphere, it's just. It's insane. And I think we're human, and so it should affect us. I think we can often feel like we're going to get to this point where we have so much news. We're so inundated with everything at our fingertips that we can scroll past something and we can say, oh, that's so tragic. I'm gonna pray for them, or I'm gonna pray for you, and then onto the next reel.

[Jeremy]

Right.

[Ginger]

But there are certain times when your world just stops and you. You realize the weight of what we're walking through as a country. And it's been one of those weeks.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, I think. I think that's something that it's felt like there's been a pall kind of spread across, at least in our. Where we are here and just looking on social media and talking to friends across the country, there was something about the violence, and there's something about the culmination of so much violence recently and pain that has really. It feels like there's been a collective pause in the nation, and hopefully that's a good thing, which causes people to stop and actually contemplate where we've come as a society and what's happening. Talk a little bit on the personal front just about our friend Erin, and we're praying for her. We've received good news this week because she's doing better and on the road to recovery.

[Ginger]

Yeah. So I've been following along on Erin's Instagram, which.

[Jeremy]

That's Erin Bates, by the way, for our listeners.

[Ginger]

Yeah. And her husband Chad, has been posting. Our friend, she went into septic shock. She had a kidney, a kidney infection, a uti, I think, infection that basically put her body into septic shock. And that was shortly after having her seventh baby in the hospital. And so it's just been a really heavy week. I think when you see. You see how quickly things can change in someone's life, and the weight of that, like, it's. There can be fear around it, and then at the same time, you Just see also how sovereign God is in the midst of all of it. And I think that I was really struck by just the words that are being shared through these seasons. So, like, Chad was posting on there, just saying how Erin was handling everything when she was able to probably speak, I guess, just having that. That being an example and a testimony, even in the hospital, which is ministering to the nurses. Yeah, I think that's something. That is it. Whatever's inside will come out in those hard seasons.

[Jeremy]

Wow. That's a. That is true. I mean, that is true. That's a statement because. Yeah. When you're tested, who you are really comes out.

[Child Reading Letter]

Mm.

[Jeremy]

And I remember seeing Chad say something about. There's been so many posts and updates, but he said something about how the nurse staff, I think, or the workers at the hospital were being blessed by Erin and even how she's the one who's struggling. And you do you see, like, the true heart of a person, what they're really made of comes out in suffering. And little Henry is doing good. It's funny because you have this season of, like, rejoicing because a baby's been born, and then immediate chaos, uncertainty, anxiety because she goes into shock, and then. Then you're. You're looking at a life born and a life being threatened, and it's almost too much to take. It's like you don't. You don't know how to process that. You know, I saw something someone said this week, just saying, you know, as humans, we're not designed. And they weren't even coming from a biblical perspective or anything. They were just. I think they were. It was just like a moment of reflection saying we're not designed to see such brutality or to handle such devastation. And they were referring to Charlie Kirk's assassination. But there's a rich truth there that the Bible talks about, which is, we were not designed for this brokenness. This brokenness should feel unnatural, like the birth of a child. It's natural to celebrate. It is unnatural to then face the threat of the mother's life being lost. That is not how we were made. That's not how we were designed. That's not how God designed this world. And so something has gone terribly wrong. In other words. And every time we grieve, every time we cry, every time we feel the brokenness and pain of this world, it is a recognition. It's a theological reality screaming at us of our experience. You know, something's wrong. Something's gone awry here for sure.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

How are they doing now, what's the latest so far?

[Ginger]

Yeah, I think that Erin seems to be doing a little bit better. I think it'll be a long road, but it's just, I think as we follow along with all of their posts, it's encouraging to see any little glimmer of hope. And I think that they're holding on to hope now as she's starting her road to recovery. And so that's just an absolute miracle and it's encouraging to see. So, yeah, one of the last posts that they put up was of quite a few of the siblings there helping hold the baby and being with them and then of course, all of their relatives just like surrounding them and helping out in this time. And I think the thing that touched me the most was a letter that their daughter wrote to Erin when she was there at the hospital. And it's fascinating because when you, like we were talking about when you pour into your kids or you say things, you teach them the word of God and then that reality that they're gonna have to live by, that in hard times, it comes out. And I think that letter that it was actually we should pull it up for a minute because the audio. Oh, my goodness. We want to take a break from this episode to tell you about Range Leather.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, I think you guys are really, really, really gonna love this company. Range Leather has legit leather goods. Our buddy Kyle is the owner. He does an incredible job in Laramie, Wyoming. Everything's hand stitched, top quality leather. Leather products can. Good leather products are hard to find. So when you kind of find the leather product company, you just stick with them for all your needs. And they've got handbags, they've got hats. I'm rocking one of the hats. They also can customize easily. Keychains, all sorts of stuff.

[Ginger]

Yeah. And they have a lifetime guarantee that they call their forever guarantee. And that's something that is awesome because with leather products, I have loved, loved Range Leather and they just age well. I think that's something that, that's the.

[Jeremy]

Cool thing about leather is. Yeah, you get it new and it just gets better as you wear it. Here's the other thing. If you've got a business or want to do like a bigger product thing, talk to them. They'll work something out with you where they can customize. So go to rangeleather.com, use code jinger J I N G E R 15% off site wide. That's a big discount. So rangelather.com, use code ginger.

[Ginger]

We want to take a break from this episode to tell you about Rocket Money.

[Jeremy]

Okay. Ginger and I have both have a confession to make, and that is both of us are not good at. At numbers.

[Ginger]

Or not.

[Jeremy]

We don't have the gift.

[Ginger]

No. We have been looking for a solution for a very long time to help us with budgeting, finance, all those things. And subscriptions are sneaky.

[Jeremy]

So sneaky. Especially now, because, remember when we were like, hey, you don't have to pay for cable anymore because there's streaming services. And then you add all the streaming service costs together, and it's like, more than what you're paying for cable.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

So Rocket Money is your solution. And I could not be more excited about them wanting to partner with us, because this is going to help you and me, Ginger, a lot to find those little hidden expenses. Financially, you can die the death of a thousand pokes. It's not big expenditures. It's $15 here, $10 here. Rocket money actually has a service where they go through all of your subscriptions to show you what you're paying for. So you might not know you've been paying for something for two years. And it'll show you. And you can cancel it and save that money.

[Ginger]

Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills so you can grow your savings.

[Jeremy]

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[Ginger]

To the episode, what she said. It was really impactful, and it hit me. It really hit me.

[Child Reading Letter]

I can see you so soon I love you and I know you love me back I wish I could see you now I've been waiting every second 1, 2, 3 for you well, Mom, I know however long you stay there I'll be right here waiting on you and she drew a happy face with a bow she says, mom, I will love you whatever happens and it's hard for me and you but there's a good thing you can see and can Nazi God never said it was going to be okay But I know you can do this.

[Ginger]

I love you and that. There's that right there. God never said. Yeah, I can't remember exactly how she said it was.

[Jeremy]

God never said it's going to be okay.

[Ginger]

Yeah, God never said it's going to be okay. She was like, whatever happens, there's a good thing in it, that there's a thing we can see and a thing we cannot see. Wow.

[Jeremy]

How old is she?

[Ginger]

And she's young. I'm trying to remember exactly how old she is. Yeah, she's pretty young. And just that theology of knowing, that theology of knowing and suffering in good times and in bad, that God allows all things to work together for good to those who love him and those who are called according to his purpose. And that's Romans 8:28. And we. We know it, but when it affects us and it hits us in those times of just deep pain and sorrow, that's when the rubber meets the road and we have to just trust God.

[Jeremy]

Wow.

[Ginger]

The good times, bad times.

[Jeremy]

One of our friends, Dave Muxlow, said, you better get your theology right before you need it, because there's moments like that where you don't. When you're in the midst of it, you're thrown into the midst of pain. You can't go, okay, wait, let me learn how to process this, or let me learn some valuable truths to understand this. It's like, no, you need to get your theology right now so that when you need it, you have it. My mom would often say, don't doubt in the dark what God has shown you in the light. But that means you've got to be searching for truth in the light, in the times where you're not thrown into chaos, where you don't feel like you're in the undertow of life's crazy ocean. You understand? Okay. There's certain realities in this world. The brokenness of sin, the goodness of God, the sovereignty of God, all of these realities that we're pouring into our hearts and our minds and our souls so that when we're thrown into those moments of chaos, we have clarity. So that in those moments of chaos, we can see rightly or understand what God's doing, or even when we don't understand what God's doing. Knowing, trusting, it's gonna be good whatever he does. I mean, that, from a little girl, is just unbelievable strength and clarity out of the mouth of babes.

[Ginger]

Yeah. So good.

[Jeremy]

Yeah. I think, you know, one of the responses Christians can sometimes have is immediate explanation. And we don't always need immediate explanation. We need theological truth. We ground our. Like Charles Spurgeon said, the sovereignty of God is the pillow on which Christian lays their head. So we need theological truth. We need to understand these realities, because that's what's going to get us through. I was just telling someone the other day that, you know, we need to understand the metaphor of Scripture, because Scripture uses metaphor to teach us so. It says things like, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. That's a metaphor of a shepherd with sheep. We need to understand that so that we don't think we're the shepherds, Right? So that when we're in the valley of the shadow of death, we're not blaming Satan or we're not blaming ourselves, or we're going, no, no. His staff and his rod, they comfort me. Because my shepherd has led me here, because he's leading me to green pastures. He's leading me to still waters. But that means going through the valley of the shadow of death. So understanding that metaphor, rich, deep metaphor, helps us have sanity in the valley of the shadow of death. And yet, as Christians, we're also told, all throughout the Bible weep with those who weep. There's a time for laughter, there's a time for mourning. One of the ways Jesus was described was a man of sorrows acquainted with grief. So Jesus understands pain. He himself wept at death, the death of Lazarus. He wept at the rebellion of Jerusalem. And so Christians sometimes can be quick to get onto the social medias immediately after a tragedy strikes and go, guys, let me explain this to you. And that's not always the right response, because there are facets of grief that are unlocked in new situations, like with Chad and Aaron and little Henry being born. And then there's. You cannot prepare for every facet of that grief and that trial. And there's times where we need to, like the psalmist would say, have you ever noticed those little words in the Psalms, Selah? We don't know exactly what that means in the Hebrew, but we suppose it's a musical term that means rest or pause. And there are times where we just need to pause and we need to rest and we need to process. And so as Christians, we weep with those who weep. We come alongside those who are suffering. And we don't always just try to explain everything away immediately, if that makes sense.

[Ginger]

Yeah, for sure. I think that's really wise because it's easy to do, or just. We know that the word of God is sufficient. It's powerful. But also, I think we can be so prone to just throw a Bible verse out that we. We know, we're like, oh, here's one Bible verse, and this will fix especially.

[Jeremy]

If it's something we're not attached to, like you see a headline, you see people over there grieving and you go, hey, we'll rejoice always. Hold on a second. Hold on a second.

[Ginger]

Because there's a balancing truth to that. So I think, yeah, it's tricky in these times to respond. Right. In a way that is helpful and also filled with truth. That's for sure. I'm not saying that we should not speak the word of God in these times because we have to. That's our only hope.

[Child Reading Letter]

Right.

[Ginger]

But I think doing it with, in a timely manner, in the right way, with the right heart is important too.

[Jeremy]

Yeah. You know, that I think made me, well, it made me think of the situation, the assassination of Charlie Kirk and why that has been so traumatizing, I think, for our nation and has it's almost been this unilateral response. I mean, people, political, ideological differences responding very similarly. You have outliers of people who are just kind of absolutely, you know, far gone or so brainwashed by an ideology. They don't have the capacity to grieve a human life. And that's devastating because they're still made in the image of God, but they don't recognize that in others.

[Ginger]

We want to take a break from this episode to tell you about Function Health.

[Jeremy]

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[Ginger]

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[Jeremy]

Yeah, I was talking to a buddy of mine who's a manager at a high end gym here in la and he was saying, jeremy, the one thing people overlook, they think they're healthy because they look healthy. You have to get tests done. You have to understand everything, all the data that Function Health gives you because there are hidden killers inside your body. You might feel great, look great, but you're not healthy. So Function Health, Check it out today, learn more and join using our link. Function is a near 360 view to see what's happening in your body. And our first 1000 listeners listen to this get $100 credit toward their membership so visit functionhealth.com ginger and use code ginger100@signup to own your health.

[Ginger]

We want to take a break from this episode to tell you about Brooklyn bedding.

[Jeremy]

26 years or 227,000 hours. That is how much time the average person spends asleep in bed.

[Ginger]

That's crazy.

[Jeremy]

Now that's not to mention and include binging Netflix Saturday morning cartoons with the girls. So we spend a lot of time in bed as humans. Make sure you have the right bed just for your own comfort.

[Ginger]

Do go for it. It's fascinating because we had to, like, stay in our guest room not too long ago.

[Jeremy]

Oh, yeah.

[Ginger]

And I was like, oh, what a bummer. It was so uncomfortable.

[Jeremy]

You're not going to tell them why we had to stay in the guest room. We left popcorn in the bed because we were watching a movie the night before and we had a stream of ants.

[Ginger]

Ants got in our bed. So we got up in the middle of the night and we moved to the guest room. And then I felt really bad because I was like, oh, my goodness, I've gotten so used to our Brooklyn bed that I love. And then I moved to the guest room and I was like, we need to get a Brooklyn bed in our guest room now because it was very uncomfortable.

[Jeremy]

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[Ginger]

Now back to the episode.

[Jeremy]

There's almost been such a shock because of the assassination of Charlie. And, well, I'll just ask you. I mean, what, you didn't listen to him terribly much. We have friends who know him. We didn't know him personally. I listened to him quite a bit. Was fascinated by his debates and his dialogues. What he was doing was unparalleled. I heard someone just say this week, you know, people obviously wanted him to run for office, and maybe at some point he would have. But almost what he was doing just by not being in office, but just speaking to college campuses and going around and engaging crowds and asking people who disagreed with him to have preference to the mic to open their opinions and share their opinions. It was incredible to see. And it was a cultural phenomenon, but it was also. It was changing minds. It was creating discourse. It was opening debate. But what was your response as you heard? How did you hear the news? And then what was your response to it?

[Ginger]

I heard the fam. The news from a family group message with my family. They sent it out, and immediately they said, charlie Kirk has been shot. Pray for him.

[Jeremy]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

And I did not actually at that time know who he was because I wasn't sure. So I immediately googled, who is Charlie Kirk? And it popped up. And then I was like, oh, I've seen him before. And so, yeah, I just was praying for God to spare his life. And then when I saw that he had a wife and two kids, that really hit me different because I think as a mom, I couldn't imagine being in that place and having to tell my kids that their daddy was not coming home and walking through that deep pain that she will be experiencing. And so I just started praying at that point and just a heaviness came over me. And I think we just saw the other incident with the stabbing and all of that.

[Jeremy]

And that was just the week before.

[Ginger]

That was just next level too. And I just been thinking about that, and I was like, wow, this is just. There's so much pain and heartache and then hearing of this. And this was with no context to who he was, but there's just a weightiness. And people started posting videos about some of the things that he said, even about his own life and what he wants to be remembered for and all that. Those videos were circulating almost immediately. And that was my first exposure to his stuff because I had not really. I just had not been exposed to it or listened to it. And even. Even having that be my first exposure to who he was, what I came away with, even as an outsider, was like, wow, it's interesting how you have so many opinions immediately without even having met this person. I felt like, okay, he's someone who loves Christ. And that's what came through in all these clips that I was seeing. He would plead with people to turn to Christ. That was his number one message that he would end with. Regardless of where he went politically, whatever discussions he may have had, he always ended with the gospel in some sort of way, not even wrapping it up. But I'm just saying at some point in his talk, he would always point people to Christ. That was something that I think impacted me, because then I'm thinking, wow, how incredible that he was able to say to even that audience that day, I'm sure he spoke of Christ. I didn't watch any videos from that day, but at the same time, I'd imagine that was part of his. His talk and that he would have said something about Christ. And with your last breath, if you're speaking about Christ, then it's like, then he meets his savior and it seems so soon, it seems so early. And it's hard because you guys are the same age. We're the same age. And so just thinking, wow, like, if my life ended today, you always have those wake up moments where you just pause and say, like, okay, if. If my life was over now, would I have regrets? Would there be things that I wish I would have said or wish I would have done and lived in a different way? And the, the impactful thing was even having no clue of who he was, hearing people on different sides say things about him. They said a ton of people said that they appreciated how he was not afraid of hard questions. And so he was open to hearing totally opposite opinions on a hot mic. How people walk up and he would talk to them and discuss it. And most of the time, like, not in a condescending way either, because it was out of graciousness, it was out of a heart that genuinely cared for people, no matter who you were. And that's something that I really appreciated hearing.

[Jeremy]

Yeah. I think one of the reasons that it was especially traumatic is because of that, that they saw Charlie as representing freedom of speech and open dialogue, which is kind of what this country is built on, this ability to disagree and disagree vehemently but not to demonize the other side. So Charlie would, of course, and I didn't listen to everything he said, but in oftentimes the conversations I'd see he would use wit or humor. But who doesn't? Like, that's a form of effective communication. But you never got the sense, at least in the conversations I ever saw and from the man he was and his character, that he would degradate people he cared about, people he, I think, really believed what the apostle James said, which is, how can you say that person's made in the image of God and then curse them? You love them. And here's the other reality is you love them by speaking truth to them. One of the scenarios in Scripture, and this has helped me process this, because as we respond, there's immediate anger, there's immediate. I think there's a innate desire for vengeance or retribution. And so as Christians, we say, well, hold on a second, how do we process an outrageous, demonic, evil, satanic act like what we've just witnessed the murder of a human life? What should our processing be? And yeah, I think there's. Well, there's so much that goes into it. But the account in scripture, in Acts 7 came to my mind where Stephen, who was a member of the first church, established church in Jerusalem, was a regular guy and kind of like Charlie, honestly, in the sense of the regularity. Charlie wasn't a college graduation, didn't have all the, you know, the, the letters behind his name. Stephen was just a regular guy who was a deacon in the church, serving meals to widows in the church because they needed to be fed and so he'd help feed them. And then there's an outcry against the church. He stands up and preaches one sermon and he spoke truth. And what he did was he went to the Old Testament scriptures and drew all the correlations of what the prophet said to showing that Jesus is the Messiah. And the religious elites hated him for it. And Saul was there. And it says Saul approved of his execution. After he finished his sermon, they gnashed their teeth, they grabbed him in broad day, put him in the street, and they stoned him to death. A brutal execution in front of everyone, which would have been a brutal, bloody massacre because he spoke truth. And what Saul was presented with there, who we know him as the Apostle Paul, was he heard truth. He was bested intellectually, he was bested logically, he was bested theologically. And he had an option. Saul being this religious elite, this powering scholar, this towering intellect, kind of the rising star of Judaism. He had a choice. Would he submit to what Stephen said and believe it, change his mind about the Messiah, or would he seek to destroy it? And that day he sought to destroy it. So they brutally executed Stephen. But then my mind went to the opening of Acts chapter 8 because it shows the response of the church. It says, Saul began ravaging the church, pulling out men and women, children. I mean, he was on a bloody massacre. He is going to destroy the truth that Stephen just preached. And it says in Acts 8, I think, verse 4. But those who were scattered from the church went about preaching the Gospel. So the response of the Christian and the response of the church is not, you don't pick up your own stones, you don't pick up weapons to retaliate. You don't even need to make a grandstanding on social media like, oh, I've got to make a statement. The early church didn't make a statement. What did they do? They just kept faithfully preaching the gospel. The response of the Christian in the face of an assault on truth, even a violent attack on a brother in Christ. Whatever the situation is, is we just keep preaching the truth. And here's what's incredible. The truth that was preached by the church because of Saul's persecution eventually reached Saul's own ears. And Saul was converted and became one of the most powerful truth tellers this world has ever known. And so you think the goal of the gospel, Charlie's goal is the conversion of his shooter, which is so countercultural, which is so supernatural in the sense of that's not natural. We would say, let's get vengeance. Well, Charlie's goal as a believer would have been, no, I want, I want conversion. Doesn't mean the law shouldn't play itself out. I think by God's grace, you know, you'd want to see a converted heart submit themselves to the due process. But that's Christianity and that's the Christian response. So you look at Jesus himself, who is our Messiah on the cross and the very ones crucifying him, what does he say? Father, forgive them. They don't know what they're doing. Doesn't mean they're not liable. What he's saying though is they do not understand the weight of the assault on the Son of God. And he asks for their forgiveness. It's interesting. Stephen, as he was being stoned, looks into heaven. Father, do not hold this against them. The same prayer that Jesus prayed on the cross. Stephen prays in his brutal public daylight execution. And I didn't know Charlie, but I know those who did. And I think that's his heart as well. So as Christians, it's difficult. It doesn't remove the grief. You know, if you think, okay, Charlie's with his Savior, then we're the ones suffering. He's not. I think the hardest part was Erica shared a statement which was incredibly strong two days after her husband's passing, after his murder. And she just was collected and delivered a powerful statement. But I, we were actually in the car listening to it when she brought up the conversation she had with her three year old. And I had to turn it off because our girls were in the back and I didn't, we couldn't, it was too much in that moment. But this is what she said to her three year old.

[Erica (Charlie Kirk's wife)]

And I talked to her and she said, mommy, I missed you. I said, I miss you too, baby. She goes, where's Daddy? What do you tell a three year old? She's three. I said, baby, Daddy loves you so much. Don't you worry. He's on a. He's on a work trip with Jesus so he can afford your blueberry budget. And my goodness, am I so humbled to witness Charlie you alongside Jesus right now.

[Jeremy]

I think that's a good answer. Work trip with Jesus, man, having kids, you just process everything differently. You just see it through their lens. And so we need to be praying for them. We need to be. I know they have such a wave of support, but, man, this world is broken.

[Ginger]

It is. Yeah. I think that it makes you. Makes you want to remember more often the reality of heaven.

[Jeremy]

Yeah. Oh, man.

[Ginger]

Because we often just get in our daily life and routines, and then there's. It's full of hardship, pain, suffering, and also joys. But those joys quickly feel like they.

[Jeremy]

Evaporate.

[Ginger]

They are gone quickly. And I think that when we're hit with things like this, it really rocks your world. And also I think that pausing out of our daily routine, it's important for us to be still before the Lord and to. To remember, even in the daily life. Like, why are we doing what we're doing? Yeah, that.

[Jeremy]

Is there eternal significance to it?

[Ginger]

Because if there's significance in the joyous moments, what about in the painful moments when you're walking through these tragedies? And so I think it is a sobering reminder to live for what matters most. And that doesn't mean you can't enjoy. You can't enjoy the good gifts God's given, because that's also a grace. We aren't supposed to live in a sad state all the time. But also there's a time to mourn. Like you said, there's a time to laugh, there's a time to mourn.

[Jeremy]

Jesus was a man of sorrows who also laughed, sang hymns, and rejoiced.

[Ginger]

And there's a balance in that. But it is helpful for us to pause and say, okay, Lord, like, how am I living my life? What am I living it for?

[Jeremy]

There's two texts I want to read here, kind of as we close. The APostle Paul in 2 Corinthians chapter 4 says, after going through much of his trial and pain, he says, so we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. For this light, momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison. As we look not to the things that are seen, but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal. The Apostle Paul's life was anything but light and momentary. There was decades of affliction. But in the light of eternity, he says, it's passing. And then this is the ultimate hope of the Christian. This is Revelation 21. And John has a vision into heaven that I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes and death shall be no more. Neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away. And he who is seated on the throne said, behold, I am making all things new.

[Ginger]

And that's such a comforting reminder for those who are in Christ. And I'd say if anybody listening too, is not walking with the Lord, you're not the Lord's. Then, just as you saw so much of the pain and heartache there's, you always think you have time to repent and turn to Christ, but now is the time. And I think that's something that we all need to say more often, is that repentance needs to happen today, because you're not guaranteed another day.

[Jeremy]

And don't you want a hope beyond this transient, broken world? If this is what you're hoping, if you're hoping in the physical and the temporal, it gets taken away. We've seen that with Aaron Bates. I mean, you're just on the cusp of the loss of life. And by God's mercy and grace, her life's preserved. But you look at Irina Sirutska, you look at those children at Annunciation High School, you look at the tragedies like Charlie. I mean, you and you go, life is taken and it's gone. Where is our hope? Our hope needs to be in something eternal, something greater. And that's why the human heart longs for eternity. We know that this world is not naturally broken. We know this isn't what we were made for. That's why we have this longing for paradise. That's why our movies end with happily ever after, because we were designed for eternity. Solomon said it in Ecclesiastes, eternity is written on every person's heart. And so if you're hoping in this life only. Like Paul says to the Corinthians, you're most to be pitied if our hope is in this life only. But the Christian is hoping in a Savior who in his weakest moment during his time on earth, conquered sin, Satan, and death itself. On the cross, Jesus Christ conquered Satan's schemes, the power of sin, and the greatest enemy of death so that we could live with him forever. There's hope in the Gospel. So, you know, this is something we've never done before, Ginge on the podcast. But I thought we could end with a prayer, and I'd like to pray and then we'll close out. But I think it's fitting. Father, in a season like this, we come to you brokenhearted and with many tears. And we recognize, Lord, that you're in control and you're good. We don't always know why you allow what you allow. But, Father, we're hoping in your redemption. We're hoping in Christ that what he has accomplished for us in the Gospel will usher in a new heavens and a new earth where there will be no more tears, no more death, no more sorrow. Father, help us to trust that. I pray if there's anyone listening who doesn't yet know that hope that today would be the day of their salvation, that they would put their trust in Christ, who endured the brokenness of this world because he loves us, who endured the cross to rescue us from this brokenness. We love you, Lord. We thank you for your salvation. We thank you for your Savior, and we pray this in his name. Amen.

[Ginger]

Amen.

[Jeremy]

Well, guys, thank you for spending the time. I know we're all processing and we'll continue to process, but we're praying for you all. We're praying that the Lord would be good and kind and that you would never, and even in these difficult days, look to him in hope.

[Ginger]

That's good.

[Jeremy]

Okay, we'll see you guys next week.

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[Jeremy]

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[Jeremy]

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