Ginger (2:17)

Storyworth Memoirs. It's the way to go. You can compile stories that matter to your loved ones to hand down from generation to generation.

Jeremy (2:26)

Yeah. Each week Storyworth will actually send them an email with a question that you get to choose. And questions are like, what were your favorite toys as a child? What are you most proud of in your life? And all your loved one has to do is respond to that email and Storyworth compiles it in a book that they put together after a year.

Ginger (2:46)

Yeah. And it's super cool because Storyworth can also just do a phone call and it can automatically transcribe those stories.

Jeremy (2:53)

Yeah, if it's. If it's like a grandparent, they don't have to type an email. They can call Storyworth and they'll transcribe it. It's very cool. So give your loved ones a unique keepsake you'll all cherish for years. Storyworth Memoirs right now save $10 or more during their holiday sale when you go to storyworth.com ginger that's storyworth.com ginger to save $10 or more on your order.

Ginger (3:13)

Now let's jump into the episode.

Jeremy (3:16)

What's going on, guys? Welcome back to the Ginger and Jeremy podcast. We're glad to be back for another episode. Ten years ago, I met a really cute girl and I wanted to take her on a date. And then I met her dad. And when I asked her dad if I could take her on a date, he sent me a 60 page questionnaire with 235 questions that I had to answer before I took her on the date. Now, if you are familiar with the Duggar World, this is the famous courtship questionnaire.

Ginger (3:49)

Let's go.

Jeremy (3:50)

We wrote about this in our book the Hope we hold, and we've talked about it before, but for the first time ever, we are going to show.

Ginger (3:58)

You guys what's inside.

Jeremy (3:59)

What's inside?

Ginger (4:00)

I know you're dying to know, so let's jump in.

Jeremy (4:03)

Look how thick this is.

Ginger (4:05)

That's a lot of pages.

Jeremy (4:06)

So this is 107 pages because I was sent 60 pages and I filled it out in like two days and sent it back a hundred pages.

Ginger (4:15)

It was like over Christmas too. You were like, flying to visit your family for Christmas. Right when you filled this out in the airport.

Jeremy (4:21)

Oh, yeah. This is half apartment, half airport filled out. And this thing is intense. We actually write about it in the book the Hope We Hold. Remember this, babe?

Ginger (4:30)

I remember that. I think when that picture was taken, I was, like, pregnant.

Jeremy (4:36)

Oh, you were pregnant?

Ginger (4:37)

And you were trying not to show that I was how pregnant I was, but my face definitely showed up.

Jeremy (4:42)

But, like, this was one of the COVID options. I don't know if you guys can see that.

Ginger (4:45)

Oh, my goodness.

Jeremy (4:46)

Yeah, we were trying to hide your bump. Because you were bumping.

Ginger (4:51)

I was bumping pretty hard. I think I was. Was I halfway? I was probably halfway.

Jeremy (4:56)

Oh, yeah. You were like, well into showing. Like, you must have been halfway.

Ginger (4:59)

I think I was halfway along.

Jeremy (5:00)

And so this was in Malibu, right? Or Santa Monica.

Ginger (5:03)

It was in Santa Monica at the pier. And then the other picture was taken under the pier. Cause they needed some shade. I remember that. That was crazy.

Jeremy (5:11)

Yeah, that was a fun shoot.

Ginger (5:13)

That was a fun shoot. It was awesome.

Jeremy (5:15)

Russell Bear. Oh, yeah, he's our photographer.

Ginger (5:17)

That's right.

Jeremy (5:17)

Shout out to Russell Bear.

Ginger (5:18)

Let's go.

Jeremy (5:19)

Okay, so chapter 10. I write about this questionnaire. I actually get something wrong in this. Listen to what I said. This is how Chapter 10, A Love Worth Fighting for, opens up. I wasn't sure what to expect when an email from Mr. Duggar showed up in my inbox about a week after my trip to Central America. The email included an attached word document. I opened it to find 50 pages of questions. Not 50 questions, 50 pages. I get that wrong.

Ginger (5:44)

60.

Jeremy (5:45)

It was 60 pages. And I just realized I got that wrong when I printed it out today and went, oh, my goodness. This was actually.

Ginger (5:51)

Wow, that's crazy.

Jeremy (5:53)

My eyes widened as I scrolled through what looked like the longest job application I'd ever filled out. He said he'd wanted to spend some time getting to know me. And this document showed that he wasn't kidding. The questions weren't surface level. Some of them were on topics I hadn't yet considered. He asked me everything from how I became a believer and my position on theological issues to my opinions on parenting and how I handle finances. They were the kinds of questions that would save married couples a lot of pain and heartache if they asked them before they walked down the aisle. I won't talk about that. This wasn't something I could knock out in a few minutes. This was serious, and I approached it that way. If Mr. Duggar wanted to know me, if he wanted me to answer all these questions, I'd do it. A couple weeks later, on my way to visit my parents for Christmas, I answered every single question on my layover from Dallas to Philadelphia. And I doubled that sucker by the time I sent it back to him. Three hours after I'd begun, the page count clocked in at 107 pages. Over the next couple weeks, Mr. Duggar and I talked a few times, usually on Fridays. First, it was nothing too intense. We mostly discussed some of my answers to the questions he'd sent me in the Duggars culture. I had to get Mr. Duggar's approval before Ginger and I could start our relationship. I wasn't too concerned about this. I knew this was how Ginger's family operated, and I accepted that. It was definitely different from how I normally went about asking a girl out. But I saw Ginger's character from afar. Hey there, good looking. And through my conversation with Ben and Jess, I knew she was worth pursuing. I'm glad I pursued you.

Ginger (7:09)

Thanks, babe. I'm so glad you pursued me, too. You made it through. And see, this is something that's fascinating because most people, when they want to date someone, they just ask that person, and it can be casual. Yeah. It may take a couple times to convince them, but then once you're locked in, you're there, and that's it. But for our culture, it's a whole different level of commitment before you know the person.

Jeremy (7:36)

Yes.

Ginger (7:36)

And that's the tricky part, because here you are. If you meet somebody in my family, it's not just gonna be like, hey, let me ask, you know, Ginger, let's see if we can get coffee. It doesn't work like that.

Jeremy (7:49)

No. Unless you knew them, like, beforehand, maybe.

Ginger (7:53)

But you're still not gonna go out for coffee.

Jeremy (7:55)

No, no, no. You're not gonna casually. If it's gonna be a formal, romantic relationships stuff has to happen.

Ginger (8:00)

Yeah.

Jeremy (8:01)

So this was right after the way this courtship questionnaire came out was we had just finished. It was the last day of the missions trip to Central America. We were in El Salvador. I was about to leave. You guys were gonna stay for another week, and I pulled Mr. Duggar aside. He had to know this thing was coming, this conversation. Oh, yeah, he's had a million of these conversations with all his daughters. And I go, hey, Mr. Duggar, I really, you know, have come to appreciate Ginger. I think she's a godly young woman. First response he gave to me was to confirm that and said, yes, she is. And he shared things about your character which I didn't even know. And he just said, she's selfless, she's servant minded.

Ginger (8:42)

I'mma get all emotional all over again. I heard you guys talking that day.

Jeremy (8:46)

You did.

Ginger (8:47)

You knew that.

Jeremy (8:48)

I didn't know that.

Ginger (8:49)

So I woke up, and because it's Central America, no ac.

Jeremy (8:54)

Oh, no, babe, this is.

Ginger (8:55)

The window was open.

Jeremy (8:56)

No, no, this is the conversation before that. That conversation. You.

Ginger (8:59)

I heard that. I heard the one when it was the day you were leaving. That's what I heard through the window.

Jeremy (9:05)

Okay. Yes.

Ginger (9:06)

Oh, that's I was on the other side of the window, guys. There's, like, these buildings that we're staying in with these thin mattresses. It's a little uncomfortable, sticky, or trying not to let bugs in, like scorpions. And it's. You know, it's roughing it in El Salvador. But I left. We had the window open, and the sunrise was coming up, and you were outside the window talking to my dad. He must have been drinking his coffee, reading his Bible out there. And you found him on the back porch and wanted to talk to him. Well, I wake up and I hear you guys talking, and I was like, oh, shoot. I'm laying right below the window on the other side of the wall. You can't see, but it's like those vented. Like, they're like slanted windows with the screens on them. And we were trying to let in the cool air, and so that's why it was open.

Jeremy (9:57)

I bet your dad knew that. I bet he wanted you to hear that conversation.

Ginger (10:00)

Probably did.

Jeremy (10:00)

He's a smart cookie. He knew what he was doing.

Ginger (10:02)

Probably did.

Jeremy (10:03)

So there was a conversation that happened the day before, which led to that, though, which was me saying, I like her. I want to get to know her. And he said, why don't you and I spend the next couple weeks getting to know each other first?

Ginger (10:14)

Oh, I didn't even realize the timeline.

Jeremy (10:16)

Yeah. So then the next morning, he's like, let's have coffee. So that's why I was on the. But he said a couple weeks turned into five months. And this was, I mean, what I wrote in the book. Like, I was waiting on an email, and he sent that email, and it was a questionnaire that I had.

Ginger (10:33)

No, this was two weeks after your conversation with him in El Salvador. Yeah, two or three weeks. That's crazy.

Jeremy (10:41)

This thing. Okay, so here's the thing. You can actually find this thing online. So courtship. I just Googled it right before we started filming. Courtship questionnaire by Ron and Rebecca Coriel. And this thing is no joke. Now. I actually really appreciated this. I think there's some stuff in here where you and I were reading it last night, going, okay, yeah, there's some questions, brother.

Ginger (11:09)

There's some questions. So I think that this. It's fascinating because, like I said, most couples, if you're gonna get into this stuff, you are deep in it. You're like, we're about to be engaged.

Jeremy (11:20)

Oh, my goodness.

Ginger (11:21)

Let's actually let this.

Jeremy (11:22)

Yeah. The level of these questions are like, yeah, nothing.

Ginger (11:25)

Like, you have a couple surface level questions. And then it's real.

Jeremy (11:29)

It gets deep real quick and it asks you some stuff, which, you know, I think if I wasn't so, like, if I didn't have the relationship I had with Ben and Jessa, so they were feeding me, like, who you were. If I hadn't gotten to know you the way I had and seen it firsthand, if I didn't think you were as cute as I did, then I would have been like, oh, no. Like, this isn't like, I'm just trying to get coffee with this girl. Like, I'm just trying to take her.

Ginger (11:56)

On a no, no. How you say you're serious, you're not just like dating around. You weren't. But at the same time, you also didn't know what level of commitment you were gonna have.

Jeremy (12:06)

Right. And let me give you guys a preview of what these questions are.

Ginger (12:13)

We wanna take a break from this episode to tell you about Cozy Earth.

Jeremy (12:15)

Cozy Earth was built for this season.

Ginger (12:18)

Oh, yeah.

Jeremy (12:19)

I mean, gifts, but for your own self. Get yourself a gift, for goodness sake. Pajamas, but get yourself a robe.

Ginger (12:25)

Bed sheets that I'm telling you, they have 100 night free trial. You can do this. Get your money back if you don't like it. And you're going to love their sheets, you're going to love their bubble cuddle blanket, which is the best gift. It is not like a normal throw blanket. I mean, we have these all over our house. Love them. Everybody who uses it asks about it. So get it for your loved one.

Jeremy (12:47)

Yeah. And here's the thing. If you order before December 12, you can get it before Christmas. So here's your chance and you'll get big savings. Give the gift of everyday luxury this holiday season. Head to cozyearth.com, use our code ginger for up to 40% off. Just be sure to place your order by December 12th for guaranteed Christmas delivery. And if you're listening, after the 12th, don't worry. Our code still works year round for 20% off. And if you get a post purchase survey, be sure to mention that you heard about Cozy Earth from the Ginger and Jeremy podcast so that they know you heard about them from us.

Ginger (13:22)

We want to take a break from this episode to tell you about Omaha Steaks.

Jeremy (13:25)

One of the most important aspects of the holiday, if we're being honest, is food. It's got to be the food.

Ginger (13:31)

You are a big proponent of having the best food and you love a lot of it.

Jeremy (13:37)

So why not have the best steaks around your table? The Best meats. Whatever it is, whatever you prefer, Omaha Steaks is going to set you up for this holiday season to eat well, which is how you've got to eat during the holidays.

Ginger (13:50)

Oh yeah, and what I love about Omaha Steaks is that they're delivered right to your door. They are USDA certified Tender steaks, Juicy Burgers. They have cozy and convenient comfort meals and so much more.

Jeremy (14:03)

So can I just tell you what I'm bad at the holidays? Wrapping gifts. Omaha Steaks. You don't have to. Just order some steaks for your friends, for your loved ones and they'll do the shipping. It'll show up at their door and they're not going to be upset. Nobody ever gets upset when you send them good steaks. So go to Omaha steaks.com get 50% off site wide during their Sizzle all the Way sale. I like that little holiday cheer. Use code Ginger at checkout for an extra $35 off. This is insane. Minimum purchase. May apply C site for details for that. But a big thanks for our Advertiser. Omaha steaks 50% off sizzle all the way sale. An extra $35 off. Use code ginger go there now. OmahaStakes.com now back to the episode what idols do you struggle with in your life? What is your churchgoing history? What is your parents churchgoing history? Was there ever any sexual immorality in your family? Please explain. When is a son no longer under the authority of his parents? Have any of your family been involved in cultic practices? How do you feel about the influence of grandparents? Would you let them live with you in their old age? As far as you know, Is there anyone who could point a finger at you and say you wronged me and you never took care of it? Do you believe it is okay for you to express anger in a physical way? If so, when and how would this be appropriate? Have you ever kissed a girl? How do you feel about having done this before marriage? What have you been doing to prepare yourself for marriage? Why do you want to get married? What are some reasons for not getting married? What qualities are you looking for in a marriage partner? Which of these qualities do you see in my daughter? Are there some qualities you want but have not seen in my daughter? What attracted you to my daughter? When did this attraction start? Have you counseled with others about marrying my daughter? What was their input? Describe what you believe about roles in marriage. Describe your belief about submission as you see it in marriage. If you are of another denomination than my daughter, how are you Going to reconcile any doctrinal differences when you are teaching her and our grandchildren, is it ever appropriate for a mate to correct his spouse in public? Do you tithe your income is, if so, gross or net? Do you have savings? How much? In what form? Do you have income from other sources? How much? Do you have outstanding debts to pay? How much? When will they be paid off? Are you financially free? For how long? How important is it to have a will? Do you have one now? How soon will you make one? When you're married, are you a virgin? If not, please explain. Do you strongly want either a boy or a girl? Why? If a child has a serious physical or mental defect, how will you deal with this? Would you consider an abortion? Give the child up for adoption? Which is more important? Quantity of time spent with children or quality of time spent? Explain. Have you ever had an imaginary friend or spirit guide offering you guidance or companionship? Have you ever heard voices in your mind or had repeating, nagging thoughts which were foreign to what you feel or believe?

Ginger (16:49)

Jeremy. Jeremy.

Jeremy (16:51)

I mean, this is like. And this is just. There's 235 of these. How much time do you spend on the Internet? Do you work well with your hands? Do you have a tv? How much? How much do you watch per week?

Ginger (17:00)

As I'm sitting here, I'm thinking, I have a great, great idea. I'm going to send this to the Love is Blind people, and they're going to start, like, using this, you know, in those pods. They only have so much time. This is going to help them to get to know people because the things they talk about, they wait way too long to talk about these important topics, and then it blows up the relationship. So I think that this is actually going to be so helpful.

Jeremy (17:26)

So here's the thing. You might be listening to that for the first time. I mean, you and I are listening to that. Oh, my goodness. They asked that? Yeah, like, that's before you get a.

Ginger (17:34)

Date, however, go out for coffee.

Jeremy (17:36)

What did that do for our relationship?

Ginger (17:38)

It definitely propelled it very fast because I remember my dad got the questionnaire back, and at some point he was like. He let me read through it, and it actually gave me more peace knowing more about you. And I know people can just write down the correct answer, know what you want to hear. But also, you weren't from our world, so you didn't always. You didn't know exactly what they wanted to hear, which was great. So it was comforting for me, especially because we were in a unique situation where we had a Lot of guys coming around who had interest and it's hard to vet that. You don't know if they want to just get to know you because you're on a TV show, if they like the fame and popularity side of that, or they may have grown up watching the show and their mom's trying to set them up. So at some point if you have this vetting process and they're gonna have to talk to my dad, it can be intimidating and it's kind of like a good thing. It was a helpful conversation for him to have with you. Like, hey, how serious are you? Because you almost have to have that when you grow up in that public space.

Jeremy (18:53)

Well, listen to this introduction from the authors of this. They, you know, they have some stuff and then they say the sets of questions that follow are offered as a tool for getting to know the potential spouse. In this day and age when young people date and hardly know each other, it is vital that they do some discovery before becoming emotionally involved. Rebecca and I have asked these questions of many of the men who came asking to court our daughters. Three of these men who answered especially well were given permission to court and easily win our daughters hearts. We pray that you have similar success using this tool. Feel free to add more questions. In fact, you might pass them along to us to add to future editions of this booklet on cd. Okay, couple things. One, this is really helpful. As you and I talked about being given this, it forced us to go into stuff, especially at long distance, especially from the setting you were coming from. But B, maybe a potential negative and I want to hear your thoughts on this. But just as I read this, I'm thinking this is almost could be the danger of formulating this non formulation of relationship. You can't formulate relationships. So what he said there is. We've given this to many men who've asked to court our daughters. Three of them, I guess he has three daughters answered especially well and we allowed them to court and they won our daughter's hearts. It's almost like a checklist of like, well, do you answer this well?

Ginger (20:20)

Yeah.

Jeremy (20:20)

Who answered it better? And you can't, as we'll see. We're going to jump into some of these questions. It's like you could answer these a million ways or you could be dishonest.

Ginger (20:29)

Well, that's part of it. I think it can go either way because you also have people who never talk about important topics until they're engaged, until they're deep in and then they don't want to back out. Because, oh my goodness, I'm almost. I have a wedding date and I have everything set up. I don't want to back out now because that's going to be horrible. We want to take a break from this episode to tell you about Function Health.

Jeremy (20:49)

We chose Function because it's the only health data platform that gives us all of the information that other health data platforms won't give you.

Ginger (20:56)

It's a near 360 view of what's happening inside your body. I think a lot of times we wait for issues to arise and then we see how healthy we think we are. When we go to the doctor, we realize, oh, wow, I actually haven't been paying attention to what's happening inside my body all along.

Jeremy (21:12)

Here's the thing again, we keep saying this about the holidays and gifts. We're not kidding each of our advertising partners, we are buying them for different people. And Function Health is no different. I care about my parents. I care about loved ones in our family. I want them to have function so that they can keep a track on how healthy they are. So I'm getting them a year Function subscription as a gift. So own your health for just $365 a year. That's a dollar a day. So join function, go to 4functionhealth.com ginger and use our code ginger25 for an additional $25 credit toward your membership.

Ginger (21:47)

We want to take a break from this episode to tell you about neutrful.

Jeremy (21:50)

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Ginger (21:56)

Yeah, I first heard about Neutrful a while back and one of my friends, she told us that it was the best thing for her postpartum. So I know postpartum can be so tough with all of the hair shedding that I've had. And so Nutrafol is the answer.

Jeremy (22:12)

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Ginger (22:49)

Right now, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription, plus free shipping. When you go to nutrafol.com and use promo code J&J, that's nutrafol.com, promo code J&J for $10 off. Now back to the episode. So I think that if prior to engagement, these things are talked about, it's actually kind of helpful. Not maybe not all the questions, but I think that the downside of that. Yes. Is the relational side because there can be hard things that you've walked through. There can be a lot of, you know, difficulty. Maybe you had a rough upbringing or you weren't a Christian.

Jeremy (23:30)

Child abuse. Have you. Were you abused as a child?

Ginger (23:31)

Yeah. So you have all that where it's like you were raised in a certain setting or there was a lot that happened there. And then stepping back, it's like, okay, well, that can be worked through once you know the person. So I think that some of that you don't want to just put out there. It's not like then you're going to have a certain picture of this person in your mind. Like, oh my goodness, I know all their past relationships. I know how much debt they have. And that forward, that first commitment's not even going to. You're going to be turned off by that.

Jeremy (24:06)

Basically. It could really reject people who don't have squeaky clean answers on a lot of this stuff. Because on paper you go, struggled with this, had this messy relationship, has debt, doesn't have this dude's a bum. You go, really? Is that a 3D view of a person? Like, you have to get to know someone. You have to see how they responded to hardship and it gives opportunity for that. So, for instance, I'm not squeaky clean. Like, God's grace has been great in my life because I am, I'm a sinner and I don't have a great, like, I've sinned in many ways. And I was honest about that. Like, my answers were gut level honest.

Ginger (24:47)

Yeah.

Jeremy (24:48)

So it doesn't have to put you in this box necessarily. And you could answer it. But if a guy's not eloquent answering something or it removes what I think is like a normal, the normal space of two people just kind of organically connecting.

Ginger (25:03)

Yeah.

Jeremy (25:03)

Like, hey, you know, I went on a couple dates with this girl and man, there's just something about her. Like, I really like her. They kind of removes that because it's like there's pressure. You've already revealed to the parents, literally the most intimate realities of your life to see if they'll approve you even being able to get to know her at all to any degree.

Ginger (25:25)

And I think that that's the pressure that a lot of kids, maybe even in that thought process, they will feel a ton of pressure to make a decision on the front end before you even have a cup of coffee with that person. And then when you do have a cup of coffee, half the time if you're with a chaperone, then you aren't gonna be able to be as relaxed and have those conversations. Cause you're thinking, oh, like, there's more pressure from people sitting there or something.

Jeremy (25:53)

So I think it's part of, like. So these were heavily used in iblp. Like, Bill Gothard had this part of it as part of his curriculum.

Ginger (26:01)

This was. Oh, I didn't know.

Jeremy (26:03)

For ati, for iblp. And so, again, like, as you hear us in this conversation, like, you and I would agree. We're so grateful, actually. This is a part of our story we don't regret.

Ginger (26:12)

Yeah.

Jeremy (26:13)

And I totally get Mr. Duggar giving it to. Especially with all the homies that came for his daughters.

Ginger (26:19)

And mind you, we were in a lot of this. This time. There was a lot of filming happening. So we had cameras around. So if people were going to hang around and they were going to be like, in that space, if you were casually going out to coffee, everybody's going to know. It's going to be out there. The tablets are going to know. That's why everything was so formal. Also is, like, not. Yes. Part of it was the setting.

Jeremy (26:44)

There was a unique scene. Yeah.

Ginger (26:45)

But it was interesting. So I think a lot of that played into the necessity for this.

Jeremy (26:51)

Yeah, for sure. But it does. So if you think about it through, like, the IBLP lens, it does play into the reality that in that, like, with what Mr. Gothard was teaching was a lot of, like, you can control all the outcomes of life if you just do the right things.

Ginger (27:06)

Yep. You have the right formula.

Jeremy (27:07)

Life ain't that way.

Ginger (27:08)

It's all gonna be perfect. And you're gonna know everything about the person. Which is scary because if you're relying on that system, you're gonna ultimately know, like, well, you're gonna find out who that person is, truly. Which can be so scary. Cause we've seen that with.

Jeremy (27:23)

Yeah. So there's guys, like, who can play the game and would have answered this perfectly. And you go, well, he's the Perfect candidate. And you go, nah. Like, dude doesn't actually have an experiential knowledge of the Lord. Like, he doesn't love Jesus, and he's not actually repenting. He says he is on paper. You know what I mean? So you have to get to know someone.

Ginger (27:42)

That was something that I was thankful for, actually, because when we were in El Salvador and I fell in love with you there, part of the thought process behind that was I had met you through Ben and Jessa. And so when they introduced you, I was like, okay, they know he's a great guy. They've spent more time with him than I have. And you had been in their home, and y' all had had so many conversations before you were even interested in me. And that was helpful because there was that touch point. And then fast forward to El Salvador. I was able to see you around a ton of different people, different personalities who were super annoying or we were in a difficult situation even. It was uncomfortable, sweaty. And I saw you sharing the gospel with those who, you know, didn't have a lot. And it was in, you know, in El Salvador, in the midst of a very violent time that we were there. And that also really showed me your heart. And you weren't just putting on, but I saw how you even handled the Word of God. You were able to open the Bible and somebody would come up with a question, and you were able to open the Word of God in humility. Not like, I know the answer, here's the verse, but, like, it was relational. I could tell you love God and you love God's Word. And that was something that stood out to me. And you knew the Bible so well because you knew Christ. It wasn't like you just had the head knowledge. It was heart knowledge. I mean, it was heart. And that was the side where I think I realized I was like, okay. I came home from that trip telling my mom, I said, I feel safe with him because of who you were and your heart. I could just see it. And I knew that, yeah, you didn't grow up in the same setting that I did. You didn't have all of the boxes checked. Like, I thought I was going to marry somebody in that system who was just like. Just like me, you know, and you weren't that. And I thought, how do I feel safe with a guy who's not in the system? I don't know. But at the same time, I think that the peace that I was experiencing was amazing because I had always prayed that I would have that, but I had never Felt that with anybody, even other people who are around. Because I always had this feeling of, like, I don't really know who you are. How am I ever going to know? Because you're so perfect. Like, you have on this perfect front. I'm afraid of that. And you were very. You were fun, you were funny down to earth. You didn't have all the lingo that I thought you were supposed to have half the time. And that was okay.

Jeremy (30:22)

Yeah.

Ginger (30:24)

And I think that that was a gift of God, because in that season, we had walked through a lot of difficulty, and it was the hardest season of my life. And I was terrified of marrying somebody and not knowing who they were and finding out later that they weren't who I thought they were. And that was something that. I was so thankful when I had such peace entering a relationship with you. It wasn't all easy. I'm not saying it was, like, so smooth. This. It wasn't in many ways, but deep down I knew that this was right and God just kind of led us. And anyhow, that's a side thing. But talking about this, it also was helpful for me to kind of hear where your heart was. When we came back from that trip.

Jeremy (31:16)

I also wanted to just answer it honestly, like. And not put on. So the first question. There's categories. There's different categories. Spiritual, financial. There's like a category on, like, intimacy. I mean, finances, want, pets. Yeah. Marriage, theology, goals, gifts and talents. I'm looking through these Ginge. This is wild. I. Relationships, family, theology. Like I said, goodness. Well, the first one is spiritual says, are you a Christian? How did you become one? And right out the gate, I said, yes, I'm a Christian. My testimony is interesting to me. For this reason, as I look back with greater objectivity, I'm unsure to when the Lord actually saved me. I say, I make a profession at 5. But then there's a season of several years in my life where I really fell into a lot of sin. I wasn't living for the Lord. I say that right out the gate. And I said, although I did not wrestle with assurance through that time of sin, you know, I probably should have. I look back, I see it two different ways. One, I could zoom in on any given moment throughout that time, look at my behavior and wonder, how could a Christian behave this way? So he's not a Christian. Or two, those years of sin, I see the beautiful reality of Hebrews 12, 7, 11. God disciplines his children, those whom he loves. And yet Scripture says the way of the transgressor is hard. So I really wrestled. Like, am I just an unbeliever who, you know, has a guilty conscience or am I a believer who the Lord's disciplining and the, you know, I write about the reality. I say the conclusion of Hebrews 12:11 is that the discipline of the Lord will yield the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who've been trained by it. That has been my testimony. My sin, though I despise it and have a healthy fear and hatred of it, produced in me the peaceful fruit of righteousness. Another positive sign as I look back upon those times. The Lord never allowed me to enjoy my sin. I never delighted in it. Upon falling into sin, I'd repent and seek restoration. So anyway, I kind of got right into it with my testimony.

Ginger (33:17)

That's really good too, because. Yeah, like when you grow up in a Christian home too, it is tricky. Like you aren't sure at what point you actually fully believed the gospel. And so I think that was good. You laid that out because there were years where you were not living Christian life.

Jeremy (33:34)

Oh yeah.

Ginger (33:35)

So.

Jeremy (33:35)

So, okay, if you're wondering how this could go from 60 to 107 pages, because question number one was one. My answer, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 pages of information.

Ginger (33:49)

It's like a dissertation here.

Jeremy (33:51)

Now, they weren't all like, how does one become a Christian? You know, my answer is repenting toward God, believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. Have you been baptized? Why or why not? So like, has your faith been growing? Tell me how. Yes. Each day as I study God's word and abide in the vine of Christ. I was in John 15 at the time, so big abide text. He's been pressing upon me the need for increased personal holiness as I seek to lead his church. Remember I was a pastor at that point. So this was a tension. By the way, this is an interesting. I was a 27, 28 year old pastor. Baby pastor. Right. Just been pastoring a tiny church. But the tension in our relationship was the way you guys did relationships was as if you were like 14 or 15 years old.

Ginger (34:36)

Yeah.

Jeremy (34:37)

Like, gotta ask mom and dad. Gotta have someone with you at the movie theater. You know, like you can't. Guys, you can't say I love you.

Ginger (34:44)

You can't go to the movie theater.

Jeremy (34:45)

Jerry can't hold hands.

Ginger (34:46)

Oh yeah, you can't go to the movie theater.

Jeremy (34:48)

So you can't hold hands. Can't say I love you. Like that's stuff you tell a 15 year old who's like, who you know, like, oh my goodness, my 15 year old daughter's gonna think this is her husband because a cute guy asked her to dance, which wasn't in the duggar world, but so you'd go, okay, you can't say I love you. You know, like you're telling a child, maybe 15's too old even, like you're telling a child. And so here I was pastoring a church, you know, counseling people, preaching, like doing all this stuff. We were planting a church in Mexico, like all this stuff was happening and I was being told like, okay, you gotta, you know, answer these questions and we'll see. And it was a very interesting season of like a dissonance in my life as. Yeah, but for you that would have been normal because that was just the process.

Ginger (35:38)

Yeah. And I think that even knowing that you were not used to all of that culture and you so graciously honored my parents wishes, that meant a lot to me. Because it's hard, I know, as. Especially when you're older and you were in the situation that you were in pastoring, all that stuff, it's tough because it feels like, okay, well are you thinking I'm a child? Are you treating me like that? You know, and it can be embarrassing at times, you know, and they're filming and they're asking you questions nonstop about it. And that side can be really tough too. And so I think though, you handled it with grace, with humility.

Jeremy (36:26)

Well. But I also look back on some of those episodes, you're so embarrassed and I'm like, gosh, please don't watch those episodes.

Ginger (36:32)

Oh yeah, never go back and watch them. But yeah, I appreciate it even how you handled all that.

Jeremy (36:39)

Okay, so there's some really good listen to some of these spiritual questions. And so maybe this is a little advice time for like there's a lot of good here. What spiritual lessons has God been teaching you lately? This would be a section where you say, goodness, you should write down some of these questions. And ladies, if you're interested in a guy, ask him these questions. And like this could be organic. But what areas of your faith do you struggle? How often do you have devotions or a time with God? What does your time with God look like? Do you believe this time is necessary for Christians? What spiritual lessons has God been teaching you lately? Would God say that there's a nagging sin in your life? Would God say there's an nagging sin in your life? Like, what a great perspective, huh? I wonder what God would say about my heart. Do you Memorize scripture? What are you memorizing now? Do you meditate on scripture? What is your prayer life like? Do you use a list prayer cards? Pray for things on different days. Look at. Look at this question. What answers to prayer have you seen lately?

Ginger (37:38)

Wow.

Jeremy (37:39)

I'll never forget. A pastor's daughter came home from college, and he told this story. She had a guy that was interested in her, and this pastor's buddies were kind of like ribbing her for it. Like, ooh, you know, you got a guy. And one of the guys goes, is he the one? And she says this out of the mouth of babes, right? She says, I don't know. I want to see how God answers his prayers.

Ginger (38:07)

Wow.

Jeremy (38:08)

Right?

Ginger (38:08)

Yeah. That's amazing.

Jeremy (38:09)

What a phenomenal answer. Because it's saying, I want to see if this guy actually talks to God and God responds. Like, does he know God well? What answers to prayer have you seen lately? What idols do you struggle with in your life? Is there anything you constantly worry about? What would you say those who know you say is your biggest flaw? How are you trying to overcome this? Listen to how I answered that. I called the three closest men to me in my church and life, and their feedback is below. My own thoughts are below theirs. So I emailed my dad, and I just put in what he said. I emailed another brother, Michael, from the church. I emailed my homie, Zeke Coleman, and then I just put their email responses.

Ginger (38:58)

I think that that's something that maybe a lot of people overlook in relationships, is if you meet somebody not in your normal circle, you don't really know them. Having some character references is great. You do that when you're applying for a job. You do that when you want to get in somewhere. But with a relationship. I think it's so helpful when you can have that reference from somebody who knows that person well. So, like, it doesn't have to get weird. Be strange, but, like, legit. Like, we want to know who this person is. And I think that whenever I heard even some people that maybe my parents had talked to because they called a couple people, had conversations with them, they went in depth.

Jeremy (39:42)

A bunch of people I knew they actually did because your mom talked to my mom for three hours one day.

Ginger (39:46)

Yep.

Jeremy (39:48)

And now that was further down the line. Way past this.

Ginger (39:50)

That was. But still, I think that a lot of those conversations, it was helpful to hear how highly other people spoke of you. And then also, it wasn't like they were gonna just be like, oh, yeah, he's perfect. Marry him. But they would also say, yeah, like, this is kind of who this person is. And give you a well rounded perspective. Because, of course, yeah, you are. You are very open in this, but you're also putting your best foot forward, in a sense, because you're pursuing me for marriage. And so there's always that difficulty. But I think, like, what I love to hear too, was that as a young person, after you got serious about your faith, even in college, when you were struggling and wrestling with a lot, you pursued accountability and even that there was the Lutheran pastor or chaplain, right? Wasn't he? And just accountability that you needed because you wanted to. You wanted to walk with the Lord, you wanted to honor him. And I liked that you had relationships. So as that question came up, you had people who you had shared your life with. You weren't just closed off and struggling, wrestling with sin inwardly. You had people you were being accountable to, talking to, doing life with, which were in all different seasons of life, like, they were older, you know, some people in the same season of life as you, others who were married, had a couple kids. And that is something that really stood out to me and also gave me confidence to know who you were. Because it wasn't like, oh, this is some great guy, he loves Jesus. He's over there doing his own thing, and you have no accountability. I think that that speaks volumes. It doesn't matter who you are, what age you are, accountability is a great thing. It's a gift from God. So having a great church family, being around, putting yourself in a place where people know you and you're doing life with them is really awesome.

Jeremy (41:50)

So that's one of the downsides of Internet dating. And maybe we'll do an episode on kind of what the Duggars would have thought of Internet dating and kind of what our perspectives are.

Ginger (42:01)

That'd be interesting.

Jeremy (42:02)

But one of the downsides of Internet dating is you can. That's why catfishing exists. You can present as something and be something else. And so Internet dating might be good to, like, break the ice and get to know someone and introduce. But you have to be dating or having relationships in community because you have to see what other people, other people know that person. So that's why they'd always say, I don't know if our listeners have heard this. We've heard this a lot. You know, for a young woman thinking about a guy, how he treats his mother is how he's gonna treat you.

Ginger (42:35)

My grandma would always say, you can't alter them at the altar. You can't change them once you marry them.

Jeremy (42:40)

Ah, good old Grandma Duggar.

Ginger (42:42)

She would always say that.

Jeremy (42:43)

Slinging wisdom around.

Ginger (42:44)

Yep.

Jeremy (42:45)

Okay, we've got a couple minutes left, and here's what we gotta do. I wanna show some of the more interesting questions and maybe show some of my responses to that. Okay. This is a good section for us to spend a couple minutes on. This is the family section. And this is where I think people are gonna see, like, whoa, that's a lot to ask before going on a date. And yet you can also see the other side of the coin of, like, those are great conversations for a couple who are interested in each other or, like, seriously interested in each other. Right.

Ginger (43:12)

So what are the questions?

Jeremy (43:13)

Well, how would you describe your parents faith? So I wrote, strong and exemplary. I pray often that I would live a faithful life such as my father and mother have.

Ginger (43:20)

That's awesome.

Jeremy (43:21)

How would you describe your religious upbringing? I said faithful to God in word and deed. Gosh. I was a little bit formal, like.

Ginger (43:27)

You were very formal.

Jeremy (43:29)

Are your parents currently married? Separated. Divorce. Please explain. Happily married. Now, one thing I will say is a lot of the history of family came from, like, Bill Gothard's teaching about, like, generational curses.

Ginger (43:40)

Yes.

Jeremy (43:41)

So I was curious, like, gosh, they're asking me a lot of questions about, like, you know, not am I an alcoholic? But, like, was your dad an alcoholic or not?

Ginger (43:49)

But it does explain. It explains a lot. So even when you're watching reality shows about relationships, half the time they'll break down at some point and say, oh, I can't handle this because my father was. He talked to me that way. Or I can't handle this because my mom, you know, she drank. So they'll get into it. And that's something that actually happens because it kind of shows you, like, what household did you grow up in and what is your perspective? Because a lot of people react to how they were raised and they'll just avoid that if it's an issue, you know, so.

Jeremy (44:26)

Oh, that's brilliant. Okay, so listen to this. How did your. To what? We were just saying, how did your father treat your mother? I said, like Christ treated the church. I've never seen a man so patient, tender, sacrificial and loving. Father's godliest man. I know. How did your mother treat your father? She was submissive, but not cowering. My father leads with a tender hand. Sensitive to her. My mom is a strong woman. That woman is awesome. She's a incredible woman. Yeah. Was there ever any sexual immorality in your family, Please explain.

Ginger (44:56)

I mean, that makes sense. Because the things that you're going to deal with, even if it's difficult, trauma, any of that, you kind of want to know.

Jeremy (45:05)

Okay, here's a good question. This is wild to ask, like, before a first date, but when is a son no longer under the authority of his parents?

Ginger (45:14)

Wow. What did you say?

Jeremy (45:16)

I am called to always honor and respect my parents. I see that as being under their authority. But God calls a man to leave his father and mother hold fast to his wife. The two shall become one flesh. There is a shift in authority at the point of marriage, but not a change in the honoring of and respecting their position in one's life. That's a pretty good answer.

Ginger (45:35)

That's pretty good, right?

Jeremy (45:36)

That's even before ChatGPT existed. That's a fascinating, like. But you know what that is. If you have parents who are giving this to a suitor, they're wanting to know, like, how are they going to treat me? Right.

Ginger (45:50)

Yep.

Jeremy (45:50)

Would your parents say that you were a rebellious teen?

Ginger (45:53)

Yes, it would have.

Jeremy (45:55)

I actually said, I don't believe so. And you know why? Because I hid so much from them. They didn't know. They didn't see. Like, I remember Ginge with the drinking, with the partying, with all that was going on. I remember after college sitting down with her maybe towards the end of college, after the Lord had dealt with me on some of that stuff. I'd gotten arrested. Like, he set me straight, you know, I was seeking accountability and doing all that. And I sat down with him for lunch once, and I just said, guys, so here's what I was doing, like, under your nose. And they had no clue. And it's not because they weren't invested. Like, it's not like they were parents. Like, I wasn't, like, a latchkey kid. You know, they were very present. It was. I was so ashamed. And then I just did everything to hide it. So they would have been like. And that's the interesting thing about people is, like, they would have been like, he's a great kid. But they didn't see, like, a lot now. They would have seen, like, effects, like, man, you doing okay? But they didn't see, like, know where I was going. I would just be dishonest with them or something, you know?

Ginger (46:56)

Yeah.

Jeremy (46:58)

Look, was your upbringing culturally. Was your upbringing culturally or ethnically unique? Does this remain a special part of your life? How will this affect your married life? This is hilarious. Was your upbringing culturally. Does this. No, I said, aside from spaghetti and meatballs every Sunday. I miss spaghetti and meatballs every Sunday.

Ginger (47:20)

Well, you get, you get some rigatoni sometimes because I'm too lazy.

Jeremy (47:25)

You make some killer rigatoni.

Ginger (47:26)

Well, I'm sorry.

Jeremy (47:26)

No, you're not lazy. I would be happy eating rigatoni every day of my life. Ginge.

Ginger (47:30)

That's like now it's more like In n out is our Sunday go to, but usually about dinner time, I'm like, it's about 5:36pm I'm throwing on some pasta real quick.

Jeremy (47:44)

All right, guys, so here's the courtship questionnaire. Here's the deal, Ginge. There's more here and I think there's some spicy stuff to get into. But if you guys want to hear more of these questions and hear some of the answers I gave, just comment that below. Maybe we'll take a poll on Instagram or something and see if you want another episode or two on this. Because, Ginge, this was like fascinating to go back and read for you and me.

Ginger (48:07)

It's so crazy.

Jeremy (48:08)

This was ten years ago.

Ginger (48:09)

Ten years.

Jeremy (48:11)

All right, guys, well, thanks for hanging out. We will see you next week. Make sure you like and subscribe. Leave comments below. That's always helpful. We do go through those, so if you ever want to hear something, topic or anything, we will hear you. Even if we don't get the chance to respond. We're listening and so grateful for you guys. We'll see you next week.