The Truth About Jeremy’s Pro Soccer Career

Summary

The Jinger & Jeremy Podcast

Episode 90 – "The Truth About Jeremy’s Pro Soccer Career"

Date: April 8, 2026
Hosts: Jinger Vuolo, Jeremy Vuolo

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Episode Overview

In this special episode, Jinger steps into the interviewer role to explore Jeremy’s journey from soccer-obsessed kid to professional athlete and, eventually, to a new calling in ministry. The conversation goes beyond athletic achievement, delving into passion, perseverance, family sacrifices, and the complex realities of a pro sports career. Jeremy’s story also highlights how dreams can shift and how identity can grow and evolve beyond a singular pursuit.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jeremy’s Early Passion for Soccer

Timestamp: 05:06 – 11:54

• Origins: Jeremy recalls his initial skepticism about soccer, having just finished T-ball and not being interested at first. His older siblings’ involvement and a chance invitation from the Lesh triplets made him try out, which became a "core memory" and sparked a lifelong obsession.
• Positive Peer Influence: The genuine encouragement from peers and the new world of travel soccer were formative, providing social connections and introducing him to competition.
• Natural Aptitude: Jeremy was quickly recognized for his talent, initially as a striker, before eventually falling in love with goalkeeping after watching legendary Danish keeper Peter Schmeichel.

“I decided I wanted to be a goalkeeper because of Peter Schmeichel, the great guy... The Great Dane.” (10:23 – Jeremy)

2. Obsession, Discipline, and Family Sacrifice

Timestamp: 14:23 – 18:39

• Intense Youth Commitment: Jeremy’s focus bordered on obsession, waking at 5:30am for individual training, even in the snow, and juggling the ball over 2,000 times in a single session (25:18).
• Family Commitment: Growing up in a pastor’s home, the Vuolos had a firm “no play on Sundays” rule, keeping church at the center. This created challenges—he often missed tournament finals and could only play in select Sunday games as an exception.

“I never played on Sunday until college... It hurt sometimes going to church instead of going to those games.” (27:37 – Jeremy)

• Parental Support: Despite limited means, his parents supported his dream through sacrifices, like bargain shopping for gear and road trips for tournaments.

3. Navigating Naysayers and Barriers

Timestamp: 28:31 – 31:17

• Doubters and Motivation: Jeremy vividly remembers those who told him he’d never go pro—both an adult in his church and another elite goalkeeper—because of his Sunday absence.

“You know who I thought about [when I signed my contract]? That person.” (30:02 – Jeremy)

• Extra Work as Compensation: Missing critical game-time opportunities meant Jeremy had to outwork his peers to stay competitive.

4. College Decisions and Strategic Choices

Timestamp: 31:18 – 34:08

• Recruitment Process: Jeremy considered top programs but chose Hartwick College for guaranteed playtime and direct coach investment, understanding that “sitting” at a top school could stall his development.
• Progression to Syracuse: After redshirting and excelling at Hartwick, he transferred to Syracuse with Coach Ian McIntyre—team MVP, multiple shutouts, and a key player in program rebuilding.

5. The Realities of Turning Professional

Timestamp: 35:09 – 43:10

• First Professional Contract: After college, Jeremy chose Finland’s Oulun Palloseura (Osceolu) over immediate MLS options. The decision allowed easier access for Americans, a pathway for development, and real game experience.
• Cultural Adjustment: Harsh weather, a more physical playing style, and Finnish social customs were major adjustments. Training was relentless, and the lack of attention to player well-being compared to US colleges was stark.

“I showed up, it was negative 30 degrees…The Finnish soccer players...can be very abrasive at times. Rough, tough, not soft.” (40:05 – Jeremy)

6. Myths and Misconceptions of Pro Athlete Life

Timestamp: 43:10 – 48:52

• Media Distortion: Jeremy explains that media attention is massively skewed toward superstar athletes, masking the unstable, high-pressure world most professionals actually face.
• Non-glamorous Realities: Contracts aren’t guaranteed, and it's an extremely cutthroat environment—players can be dropped for injury or performance at any time.

“One of the misconceptions is the jump from the amateur game to the professional game is a much wider gap than people realize.” (44:47 – Jeremy)

• Physical Toll: Pressure to downplay injuries—especially concussions—is common, as reporting them can end contracts and careers.

7. Perks, Camaraderie & the Inner Life of a Pro

Timestamp: 48:53 – 50:49

• Best Parts: Jeremy enthusiastically recalls the food spread and close bonds in the locker room as unique perks.

“For a guy like myself who loves food…that’s a great part. I miss the camaraderie in the locker room…because you’re fighting together.” (49:16 – Jeremy)

• Adjustment to Attention: Reaching the pro level didn’t inflate his ego, thanks to ongoing self-reflection and faith work. The real turning point came as his passion began to shift away from the sport.

8. When Passion Changes and Life Moves Forward

Timestamp: 50:49 – 54:14

• Leaving Soccer Behind: Jeremy retired after four years, not due to necessity but genuine lack of desire to continue. His focus and excitement for preaching the gospel had overtaken soccer.

“[Soccer] was my obsession for so many years. When I realized that I was gaining another obsession, that bothered me. But… my career stopped because I had a completely different passion.” (51:05 – Jeremy)

• No Regrets, No Looking Back: He found his new calling fulfilling, and unlike many athletes, didn’t experience an identity crisis.
• Bringing It Home: Jeremy now uses his background to mentor university athletes, blending his life experience with spiritual care and leadership development.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“I tried out for the team, I made it and that was the start. And then I became obsessed soon after.”
— Jeremy Vuolo [06:53]

“My passion was completely replaced with a passion to preach the gospel…I was more excited for the opportunity I’d have to share the gospel after the game than the game itself. And I started to realize something’s wrong, but something’s right here.”
— Jeremy Vuolo [52:00]

“If you want some help strengthening your marriage, start a podcast… It is sweet. The time for us to sit down every week and talk. And it’s as enjoyable for us as we hope it is for you.”
— Jeremy Vuolo [04:26]

“A lot of people…they don’t know what to do, and it’s an identity crisis. For me…it was like, ministry was like, ‘Oh, I found my calling.’…Soccer became, okay, this is over. Next.”
— Jeremy Vuolo [54:14]

“Nothing’s wasted and nothing is like, you know, these. The career that you had was part of your life story. But then it’s awesome just to see how God’s given you opportunities to use that even now.”
— Jinger Vuolo [55:04]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 05:06–11:54: Early soccer memories, inspiration, and obsession
• 14:23–18:39: Intensity, family dynamics, and youth development
• 27:37–31:17: Sacrifice, overcoming discouragement, and outworking obstacles
• 31:18–34:08: College choice and pathway to professional soccer
• 35:09–43:10: Transitioning to the pro game; cultural and physical adaptation
• 43:10–48:52: The real life of a working pro—beyond the fame and paychecks
• 48:53–50:49: Pro perks and the unseen bonds of team sports
• 50:49–54:14: Passion’s transformation and moving into a life of ministry

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides a rare behind-the-scenes look into the life of a professional athlete—and the journey of finding purpose beyond the field. Jeremy’s story, skillfully uncovered by Jinger’s thoughtful questions, is one of dedication, sacrifice, reinvention, and faith. Whether you’re a sports fan or simply navigating your own shifting dreams and ambitions, their candor and warmth make for an inspiring listen.

Transcript

[A]

K Pop Demon Hunters, Saja Boy's Breakfast

[B]

Meal and Hunt Trick's meal have just dropped at McDonald's.

[A]

They're calling this a battle for the fans.

[B]

What do you say to that, Rumi?

[A]

It's not a battle. So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.

[B]

It is an honor to share.

[A]

No, it's our honor.

[B]

It is our larger honor.

[A]

No, really, stop.

[B]

You can really feel the respect in this battle.

[A]

Pick a meal to pick a side. Ba da ba ba ba and participate

[B]

in McDonald's while supplies last.

[A]

Last night you spent two hours deciding what to wear to the party this morning. It'll take you two minutes to list it on Depop and make your money back. Just grab your phone, snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. The sheer dress and platform heels you'll never wear again. There's a birthday girl searching for them right now. Your one and done look is about to pay for your next night out or at least the ride home. Your style can make you cash. Start selling on Depop where taste recognizes taste, y'. All. I'm so excited for today's episode on many levels because today I am going to interview Jeremy on the topic of his professional soccer career.

[B]

I'm usually the one asking you questions, so I'm kind of nervous and excited and a little bit.

[A]

I'm not always the best at interviewing, so I'm, like, a little nervous.

[B]

I had, like, this obsession, this passion burning inside me. I had to play soccer all the time. But then very quickly, I realized I wanted to be a goalkeeper. I mean, like, very quickly. So at that point, I would start waking up at 5:30am every morning.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

Yeah. As a kid in middle school, yeah. I was actually training with another goalkeeper who was an elite goalkeeper in a Division 1 school. And he said, bro, there's no shot you're going to go to a good school because you don't play Sundays. And so I knew, I don't play Sundays. I'm going to be a pro. How in the world is this going to happen? Well, I've got to be the hardest working person I know.

[A]

So what is, like, what would you say is the biggest misconception about being a pro athlete?

[B]

The biggest misconception. Yeah. Okay. Well, I think. Welcome back to another episode of the Ginger and Jeremy Podcast. And Ginge, how you doing?

[A]

Good. How are you doing?

[B]

I'm doing well.

[A]

Y'. All, I'm so excited for today's episode on Many levels. Because today I am going to interview Jeremy on the topic of his professional soccer career. How he got there and also, like, how he arrived at that, and then once he was there, realizing that what he had worked for was not where he was going to stay.

[B]

Long term, it'll be a very short interview. If we're going to talk about professional

[A]

career, we're going to talk about all things soccer. So I hope you're a fan of soccer. We're also going to talk about, like, pursuing a dream and investing so much in it. And then when that shifts and changes, how you approach life now, like, looking back on those years, did you feel like you wasted your time? So let's get into it. So, Jer, I'm the best person to do this interview with you because I literally just asked Chat. What? To ask you about your professional Chatty Patty. My friend Chatty Patty, she was helping me out because I know very little about soccer. I've actually learned a lot being married to you. But I'm going to do my best to ask.

[B]

You're going to do a great job. I feel a little. I'm usually the one asking you questions because let's. Let's face it, Ginger's the most interesting one out of the two of us. And the reason that you guys are listening to this podcast is because of my sweet wife. And so I'm always scratching the itch of curiosity that our listeners have, but also that I have asking about you and your life. And what's really funny is sometimes the. The people will comment and say, you know, for instance, I'll go, ginger, how are you doing these days? And then somebody will be real concerned, like, how does he not know how she's doing? And I'm like, guys, like, we do understand every day that there are cameras here, and we're doing this for you guys as well. But there are other times where I'm genuinely asking questions that I do not know the answers to.

[A]

It's actually really fun for us to sit down and do this just to, like, learn more about each other.

[B]

And it's the best. If you want your. Maybe this is another podcast topic, but if you want some help strengthening your marriage, start a podcast. Oh, my goodness.

[A]

I don't know if that's the best thing to do, like, right off the bat, like, well, you don't have to

[B]

publish it, but it is sweet. The time for us to sit down every week and talk. And it's as enjoyable for us as we hope it is for you. But. But we love this time. But, yeah, you're gonna ask questions today. So I'm kind of nervous and excited and a little bit.

[A]

I'm not always the best at interviewing, so I'm, like, a little nervous. But bear with me, guys. Here we go. Well, okay, my first question for you, for real, is, how did you get started in soccer? Like, did it just. Was it something that you fell into? Do your siblings play sports growing up, or, like, where did your passion for soccer begin?

[B]

Yeah, I remember it very clearly. My family in Downingtown, Penns. We lived in a little house in the borough, and we had an old computer. I mean, it wasn't old at the time, but it was one of those computers, family computer. And I remember crowding around because I think my dad was doing something like looking up soccer or looking up a game. And I remember making fun of it. I had just come off of my first year playing T ball. I think I was maybe 7 years old, and I was like, there's no shot on playing soccer. My brother and sister, who are both older than me by two years, they had gone to tryouts. I remember going with them, but I would just kind of. Like, I wasn't into it. I was real skeptical. But then my sister and I, for whatever reason, outside of my dad's church, we had a soccer field, and we started playing and kicking the ball around. And I don't remember what got me to do that, but probably you were bored. Yeah, maybe bored. My sister was probably into it. So I was like, all right, Val, you know, yeah, I'll play with you. And I'll never forget this. There was a soccer team that had just finished practicing, and we were playing over here, you know, another area of the field. And these three boys came up to me. The Lesh brothers. Michael, Mark, Keith. They're triplets. And they said, hey, man, we saw you playing. You should come and try out for our team. And I just talked to them. They went to the middle school, which was right across next to the church, adjacent to the church. And I was like, well, when are tryouts? And they said, it'll be in a couple weeks or whatever. They left. I sprinted up to my dad's office, and this is one of my core memories. And I burst through the doors. I said, dad, can I try out for Downingtown? I think the team at the time was Spirit United, and their team was Mako Attack. No, my team was Makotak. They were the Great Whites or something. And so we got information about it. It ended up being an age group above me. But I went and tried out. I made the B team for the age above me. And that was actually really important for my development because I started playing with guys that were bigger and stronger. And at that age of development, when you're 8 years old, playing with a 9 year old or a 10 year old is a significant difference because you're growing so much. So I tried out for the team, I made it and that was the start. And then I became obsessed soon after.

[A]

And I wonder, do you think that some of that too was because these kids who you didn't know at the time, the Lesh brothers, them inviting you to play and like calling you out, hey, you should come play. Do you think it was like positive peer pressure on your end? You're like, oh, that's so cool they noticed.

[B]

Yeah, I think it was also, I was homeschooled, so I didn't even know. I didn't have a paradigm for a travel soccer team. It was a social outlet, but it was also more of just like, wait, what is it? You know? And so yeah, I think getting to know them, they became friends all through high school and college. And I'll still keep in touch with them. And so we don't get to see them obviously as often as we'd like. But love those guys. But yeah, at that point I think it was like just an introduction and I was just curious, so how did

[A]

you do that first season playing? I mean, did they let you play it well?

[B]

I did really well. I was really gifted for it, I think. I don't know how, I don't know how I picked up on the technique, but I played out in the field. I was usually a striker and I just took to it. I just absolutely loved it. And there's a picture of me still on my mom and dad's refrigerator and I have the ball in the pose like this. And I signed it that year, I think eight or nine years old. I signed it with a gold Sharpie.

[A]

That's so cute.

[B]

And I signed with my number 86 because even then I thought, okay, you know, I wanted to be like professional. I didn't get bit with the bug of being a professional, the obsession with that. Until I was about 12, I don't remember the exact age, but I remember the time period. But yeah, I just went all in. And I don't know if that's my personality. You could tell me this ginge about other things. I tend to. I think though, if I get my mindset on something, you hyper focus on Yeah, I hyper focus and I just go all in on it.

[A]

Oh yeah, you do.

[B]

And sometimes I move on. So like fountain pens, right? Like I have a fountain pen collection, but for years you have a hat collection. Yeah. So I go. And then. But then sometimes I move on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So like fountain pens, I still love them and use them every day. But I'm not like searching fountain pens and trying to find a good deal on ebay or anything like that. I've just kind of got my collection. I'm happy. I did that with rocks and minerals when I was a kid. But with soccer, it was like the one that I stayed hyper focused on and never left. It just became my constant obsession from really that point on. And I always played in the field because I was good at it. But then very quickly I realized I wanted to be a goalkeeper. I mean like very quickly. And I think the turning point for me when I became obsessed was a couple things. I decided I wanted to be a goalkeeper because of Peter Schmeichel, the great guy.

[A]

Talk about Peter Schmeichel. So if you don't know who he is. I didn't know who he was either. Jeremy showed me some videos of this guy and he's intense.

[B]

Yeah, he's an animal.

[A]

He's so intense.

[B]

Yeah. The Great Dane, he was Denmark's goalkeeper. He played for Manchester United through the 90s. He won the treble with them. He retired after the 98 season. And back then we didn't have like the Premier League, English Premier League, didn't have access to American television. And so every year they would do a VHS recap of the season that you could buy from Eurosport, which is what I would do. And they just had the major teams at that time. It wasn't Chelsea, it wasn't Man City. Man City was an awful team in the second or third tier of English football. It was Manchester United, Arsenal, Barcelona, teams like that. And so I became a Manchester United fan just because I had access to them. And it was.

[A]

You still. Are you still a fan? Oh yeah.

[B]

Die Hard, Red Devil. And it was the era of Nikki Butts and Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, David Beckham, the Neville Brothers. And Peter Schmeichel is the goalkeeper. And when I saw Schmeichel play, he was intense, he was vocal. I mean he would get in his defenders faces and he was just dominated. The box, the goalkeeper box, the area that we call in front of the goal. And I remember I stuck on him like white on rice.

[A]

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[A]

Now back to the episode.

[B]

As soon as I became obsessed with Peter Schmeichel, it became a problem because I was this little 11 year old kid who was then going onto the soccer field, the training field, and screaming at my teammates. So imagine you're going to like, you signed your kid up at 12 years old.

[A]

Your dad's a pastor.

[B]

Yeah, my dad's a pastor. We're at the church field.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

And I'm sitting there ripping into your kid. Cause he's not defending or he didn't track back, you know, Zach, track back. You know, my dad's like apologizing, like, guys, I am so sorry. He's been watching the World cup or he's been watching Schmeichel, and I just became so intense. But I was emulating my hero, you know?

[A]

Yeah, that's so fascinating. I mean, just, I wish I could see you in that place. I've seen some home videos and honestly, it is hilarious because I see you as like an adult and I'm wondering now, I'm like, how is Finn gonna be? Because our little man is like full of personality and we have a couple others who have a lot of spunk,

[B]

you know, I have a feeling we might be on the sidelines of some games apologizing.

[A]

I'm really curious. I'm really curious to see. But even your dad, though, like, even when you were small, didn't he call? He thought you were going to be an athlete.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Like when you were walking in a couple months, you were like, really athletic and stuff, even as a baby.

[B]

Oh, and Finn is that way. Our girls are very agile and athletic, but Finn especially, I mean, Finn's already dribbling the ball.

[A]

Yeah, it's wild.

[B]

At 11 months, it's insane. He was repeatedly kicking the ball as he walked and then pivoting. Like there's a video of him, you know, the ball deflects and he pivots and turns and. And you're just like, I don't think that's normal for 11 months. But.

[A]

But you had a lot of that same, that same skill even as a baby, which is kind of interesting to think. Like, not every. Everybody's gonna, Every parent's probably gonna say, like, my kid's gonna be a pro athlete.

[B]

Have you seen that video of the mom? And the little boy throws, throws a ball at the dad and dad catches it and he's, you know, kind of this, this pudgy little Kid. And she goes, that boy, I tell you, he's going to be a professional athlete. And the dad throws the ball back, and it hits the kid in the face. He jolts back.

[A]

Yep, Yep, exactly. You can't always predict, but with you, like, getting more interested in soccer, did you. Were you part of, like, travel teams?

[B]

Yeah, it was travel. So because I was homeschooled, I didn't go to a public school team until high school. There was actually some controversy there. They were upset because I think some of the parents were upset because maybe. I don't know, maybe I threatened somebody's position or something, but they thought, he's homeschooled, he can't play public school sports, not realizing or maybe they did, I don't know, but that we pay taxes. So you have access. Actually, even if you're homeschooled, you have access to a lot of the resources public school would offer. But, yeah, I played travel soccer. And yeah, at the time. I mean, things have changed so much in youth soccer, but my dad would travel everywhere and the whole family sometimes. But I remember my dad would preach every Sunday in Downingtown, and we would sometimes drive down to Virginia beach six hours. Whoa. And play a tournament, and then we'd drive back Saturday night. And at the time, I didn't value and appreciate it. I'm a kid, you know, just. But now I'm like, the sacrifices my parents made, and we weren't wealthy, and so I remember, you know, I would get a pair of shoes, and I chose to purchase a pair of shoes I could use as indoor soccer shoes and also sneakers. And that's the way I got my dad to buy them, because they were like 70 bucks or something. We'd always pay $30 for our shoes. We'd go to the. What's the indoor flea markets? The swap meets. Yeah, we had, like, a swap meet in Downingtown, and we'd go to some of the stores there and find, like, Nike shoes or something for 30 bucks. We weren't gonna pay more than 30 bucks. I don't remember the exact day, but me buying a shoe more than 30 bucks was, like, a momentous occasion in my life.

[A]

That's so.

[B]

But I convinced my dad to buy some Sambas. And I said, dad, because this is the only. I won't need to buy a pair of shoes for soccer. I'll wear these for both.

[A]

So he said, okay, that's crazy.

[B]

But. But I was so obsessed that I remember my dad would. Wanted me to take a break because he didn't Want me to burn out? And he'd say, why don't you take this winter off? I'm like, dad, I can't. I have to play. I had like this obsession, this, this passion burning inside me. I had to play soccer all the time.

[A]

That's crazy. And so you said there was a moment that shifted where you started to realize that you could actually make it. And did other people say that to you? Were there like relatives, coaches, anybody who was looking at you and like, okay, this kid has potential even as opposed to like your peers?

[B]

There was. So United Sports Training center opened up in Downingtown, Pennsylvania, and it was this multi sport complex focused on soccer. And I went there before they were even open to the public. I started going there and training because I knew the owner, Ted Van Buren, and he let me come. And I lived my life there. And I must have been around 11 or 12 at that point when USTC, we call it, opened up. And Tony Williams was a coach from England. He started this academy at the ustc and it was regional. So kids from like Virginia up to New York, even further up north, would come down for these academies and for two or three days we would camp out at USCC and we would train. And he ran it like a professional club. I think he was at Crystal palace for some years, or not. Tony wasn't at Crystal Palace. I forget which club he was at. And so he kind of was instilling like this English training academy. And some of the players that would come from inner city New York were absolutely unbelievable. I mean, just the most incredibly skilled, gifted players. And I rose to that occasion. So being around those players, it like, elevated my game and it was so intense. And we would play till 10 o' clock at night, then you'd sleep, wake up, eat breakfast and play soccer all day. And it was incredible. And I remember there was one night where my buddy Ernie was there and I had my bag and we all had uniforms, you know, like training uniforms and stuff. It was very, like, felt very professional, like the academies would be in Europe. And I remember that night thinking, this, I'm gonna be a pro. Like, I'm gonna be a professional. This is what I'm gonna do.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

And I never looked back. I was so devoted to being a pro. It wasn't a question, it was a determination. I'm going to do this. And then it got to the point where it was like, I didn't see a purpose in playing if I wasn't gonna be a pro. So, like, some of my Teammates. I'd be like, are you gonna go pro? And they're like, well, I don't know. I'm like, why are you playing? Like, I didn't understand they couldn't en

[A]

just for enjoying soccer.

[B]

They're like, well, I'll see you after college. I'm like, what are you doing? Wow. And I think for me, it was because I sacrificed so much. So at that point, I would start waking up at 5:30am every morning.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

Yeah. As a kid in middle school.

[A]

Yeah, that's wild.

[B]

By myself, my parents never pushed me to do a thing with soccer. In fact, they would say, hey, do you want to cool off?

[A]

I wonder if that's why you were so interested in it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe because they weren't like, you need to do a sport. You need to be disciplined in this.

[B]

I had teammates who would come and were very gifted, and they would play and they would score three goals, and then they would sit there on the bench and, like, cry and be like,

[A]

I hate this because they were forced to do.

[B]

They're like, I don't want to play. I'm so sick of this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm like, oh, sorry, man.

[A]

Like, that's so sad.

[B]

But they. It was what they did, you know?

[A]

Wow. We want to take a break from this episode to tell you about article.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Now back to the episode.

[B]

I would train every morning in Pennsylvania. You get rain, snow.

[A]

It's crazy that I would, I would

[B]

go out there in the snow and I just, I wasn't even doing fun stuff. Like I was working on my technique. So I was juggling the ball, right foot, left foot, thighs, both feet.

[A]

How many times were you able to juggle it?

[B]

Like my record one morning, I counted because I would count every morning and I'd always have to improve. 2003 I counted.

[A]

So 2003. I can't do it two times.

[B]

It took me probably 45 minutes.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

And so the biggest thing at that point is, isn't the technique. Like, if you're worried about the technique to keep the ball up, you've got awful technique. It's not the technique. It's just not that point of mental focus or, like, the will to do it. Like, now I wouldn't even want to do that.

[A]

Yeah, but, like, that's part of proving to yourself what you can do.

[B]

Yeah, it was. It was the dedication aspect of it, and it was working on the fundamentals, so working on your left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot, that kind of thing. And so, yeah, I was just like, it did something. And that's what's so interesting. Now, being a parent, you realize you have a ton of influence on your kids, and yet they are these individuals that are autonomous from you. Nobody could have sparked that in me.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

Nobody could have planned that. It just happened. And you go, yeah, these kids are just individuals who are autonomous, separate from you, and you have influence on them, but they're going to have their own passions and their own desires and pursuits in life.

[A]

That's so interesting. And like, that just continued throughout the years. And then you did go to college and you went to Syracuse.

[B]

Well, here's an interesting thing. Before going to college was because of our. My dad was a pastor. He had the commitment not to play on Sundays. So I never played on Sunday until college. And even that was a decision we made together. I wasn't. I agreed with it. I wanted to honor God's day, the Lord's day at the time. Theologically, for those of you listening who are theologically minded, we were Sabbatarians, which meant Sunday is the new Sabbath. And so you can't do any work or labor activity like that. I'm not a Sabbatarian now, theologically, at the time, we were. Neither is my dad, really. But. But I really appreciated that because it kept church and Christ at the center of our life. When you get good at a sport, or even if you're not good, but you're just super involved, it becomes your life. You're traveling every weekend.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You're never together as a family. You're all over the place. And I remember sitting there knowing, like, my team was at. In the final of the tournament, because the final was always on Sunday. So if you win your games on Saturday, you play Sunday. And it hurt sometimes going to church instead of Going to those games. There were a couple times my dad. And this just tells you the kind of character and godly man my dad is, Even though theologically we were convinced, like, we should honor this day in a special, unique way. He always valued and saw at the heart of God's law is love. And there were several times where the team did not have another goalkeeper option, because you always have two goalkeepers. And instead of just going, well, sorry, guys, you're high and dry. My dad would say, okay, you can play in the championship on Sunday to help them. And I would do so gladly.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And so I was on board with that. It wasn't like I wasn't kicking against my parents for that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I think that fueled the flames even more.

[A]

Well, because, like you told me, there were so many people who would say, you're not gonna go pro. You're probably not gonna play in college. Right. Because if you don't play on Sundays, as, like, you're. That's the main time probably for people to see. Right.

[B]

If showcases, tournaments, you're giving every other goalkeeper or athlete who's vying for your position or position college a leg up. Cause you're only showing up half the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so two instances when I was very small, I remember a guy in my church. I don't know why. I think I was probably playing soccer in the church, and he probably came over and said, don't play in here. You know, you're gonna break something. And I remember, like, I was small enough where I was, like, looking up at this guy, and I must have said, but I'm gonna be a pro or something like that. And he just said, you're not gonna become a professional. Like, there's no chance. And I. I remember his name. I remember the moment. Oh, my goodness. Like, there's moments like that. I think you could ask a lot of athletes, or not even athletes, if you've accomplished something, one of your dreams

[A]

somebody said you weren't going to accomplish.

[B]

And I don't know why adults would say stuff like that.

[A]

That's so sad.

[B]

Yeah. Less than 1% of all soccer players in this country.

[A]

But you don't need to tell a kid that. You need to let them try to strive to be their best.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that's.

[B]

You don't want to stay up in passion. And so I remember thinking, like, I'll show you. And, you know, it's crazy. I signed my first professional contract. You know who I thought about that person? Yep.

[A]

No way. Oh, that's wild.

[B]

Same day, signed it when I did it. But some of that stuff drives you, right? And then another instance was I was actually training with another goalkeeper who was an elite goalkeeper in a Division 1 school. And he said, bro, there's no shot you're gonna go to a good school because you don't play Sundays. And if you don't play Sundays, you're not gonna play for the best teams. Which is what always happened. I was always second rate teams. So like FC Delco. I didn't play on FC Delco. That was the elite team in Pennsylvania until my senior year of high school. And we went to nationals, but. And I played a year up with them, but I never played on the team I wanted to be on because I wasn't available Sundays. And the other elite goalkeepers who were very good could play Sundays.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And so it always, it always demanded that I had to work harder. And there's an aspect to that of character building which is so valuable. Like, you've got to overcome. Nothing's going to be handed to you. And so I knew I don't play Sundays, I'm going to be a pro. How in the world is this going to happen? Well, I've got to be the hardest working person I know. And so I needed my. Yeah, I needed my work rate and the opportunities I did have to just be that much better.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And so that actually factored into me and my college decision because I had different schools that were looking at me. I had interest from Wake Forest, Boston College. I started, I caught wind of this coach at Hartwick College, Ian McIntyre. And Hartwick College used to be this, the school in the 70s and 80s for soccer national champions, kind of the elite. But they had just fallen off. They just weren't, they didn't have the institutional investment and all that. But they had gotten a new Coach recently, Ian McIntyre, and he scouted me and I spent some time with him and I realized, oh, he's the real deal. Like, this guy's legit. And again, with my singular focus of what's going to get me to the next level, I had the awareness to think, yeah, I could go to Boston College, I could go to Wake Forest, these elite programs, but I wasn't the highest recruited there either. So they were offering me money, but they were also, there was going to be a goalkeeper there who's on a full ride and I was going to have to pay some of my way or whatever. And I realized, yeah, the sticker price of like, yeah, going to wake top school in the ACC or Boston College would look great, but if I sit for three years, that's not gonna get me to the professional level. I need to go somewhere where I can develop immediately.

[A]

That's a lot of pressure because you're thinking about what you've worked for for all of those years, from when you were really young up until that time. And then making a decision on what college you go to would ultimately, like, in God's providence over all this, but, like, determine where you end up if you go pro or not.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

So did you make the right decision?

[B]

I did. 1,000%. So I went to Hartwick. It was a small Division 3 school for every sport except men's soccer and women's water polo.

[A]

Bummer.

[B]

So the two sports that were Division 1 out of all the other sports. So I went there knowing, okay, who's gonna invest in me and what program's gonna build me and take me to the next level? So I spent four seasons there, red shirt in my freshman year. But then my fourth year, I played Ian McIntyre, went to Syracuse with Yuka Masselin and the coaching staff, and took me with him to rebuild Syracuse's program. And so I spent a year at Syracuse, and Syracuse went on to win the national championship. And they're now one of the most elite schools in the acc. They moved conferences. I always wanted to play in the acc, played in the Big Ten when I was there. But now they're one of the elite programs in the country. And it's no surprise. I mean, Ian McIntyre and Yuka Maslin, the coaching staff there is just phenomenal. But I saw something there. Like, I knew, this guy can take me to the next level. I trust him and I trust his investment in me, and it'll take me to the next level.

[A]

You were the mvp, weren't you? Was it at Syracuse and Hartwick both?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Incredible. I mean, I'm not surprised. That's awesome. I was just looking up some of his stats before guys, and I was gonna read some, and then he was like, no, no, no, don't. Don't. Don't read any of that. Don't read any of that. Because I thought it sounded pretty cool, but I don't even know. I don't even know soccer that much, but it was. Yeah. I mean, in Hartwick, you started almost every game. 53 appearances, standout junior year, strong record, multiple shutouts. You were named the Goalkeeper of the year, Mac. And MVP level player, and then team captain. MVP at Syracuse, 79 saves, multiple shutouts in one season. I don't know what half of that means. But then you went to Osceolu. Yeah, we have to talk about that. You how was that transition in your professional career from playing? Because Osceolu was that. I don't actually know what level they are.

[B]

Yeah, well, that's a sort. So their first division in Finland. But coming out of college, my singular goal, I went to Syracuse. Technically, I'd finished my undergrad at Hartwick, so I started my master's at Syracuse. But I knew I wasn't going to stay there, so I became the worst student.

[A]

Master's in business.

[B]

Yeah. Well, no.

[A]

What was it?

[B]

No, it was. Yeah, it was my mba and they have. It was finance. Yeah. But I started my MBA with business administration or business management. I got kicked out of that program like three days before our first game. Because what happened was I went to Syracuse knowing this is my final year. I'm focused purely on signing professionally. So all of my focus, not a single ounce of it, is on my master's degree. I'm not going to finish my master's degree. I'm going to go pro. So I get into the mba. They put me into the MBA program and I missed all of orientation because we had two a days and I was training. So like two or three days before our first game, my coach gets notification that I'm unqualified, disqualified to play. Because in order to be a collegiate athlete you have to maintain a certain GPA and all this stuff. Well, the NBA said he's a no show, so he's not even in our program. So they had me meet with the vice president of the school. And so they're going, how are we going to get you into a program? What program? They're scrambling to find a program for me to get into. So they put me into finance.

[A]

That's perfect.

[B]

I am not a finance guy. And so I'm like, well, what class am I taking? So I take all these electives. I became that guy. Like showing up into class with hoodie and a water bottle and like not locked in on everything. And in master's programs, this is really funny. Like now having my master's of divinity and doing my doctorate and that. It's like a master's degree is different than an undergrad. The standards are different. They're much more. They're less focused on the minutiae of your grade. They are project oriented, at least with an mba. And I remember one time, like to get a B is not a good grade.

[A]

Do most people like want to be There doing a master's program because they sign up for it, right?

[B]

Yes, you do. In their profession, whatever professionals in all stages of life who are hustling, they're working.

[A]

Were you the only one who didn't want to be there?

[B]

Yeah, probably, if you're in a master's program. But there's other athletes, you know, who are there. But, I mean, I loved it. Syracuse is an incredible school. I wish I could have gone back and.

[A]

And now you wish you would have.

[B]

I wish I would have logged in a little more, but I remember one time I wrote a paper and I got an A minus. Minus.

[A]

What does that even mean?

[B]

He didn't want to give me a B, because a B in that program is like, you're really not doing well. And so the professor is really gracious. But so I. Coming out of college, I had the opportunity to go into the mls. So Los Angeles Galaxy, Philadelphia Union, some clubs wanted me to come into camp, but I took the council and I think it was wise counsel to go overseas to a smaller club in Finland, Osceolu. And great pronunciation, by the way.

[A]

Well, it's just because I've heard you say it before. Yeah, it looks like a C, O, U, L, U.

[B]

Looks like my last name, almost. Yeah, it's O U, L, U. Yeah. But when I went there, I went there because I knew this is a smaller country, smaller division. It's easier for Americans to get in there with work permits and play, but it's a place I can develop.

[A]

And is that. Are they known for, like, people scouting there, like, looking to, like, especially in

[B]

Scandinavia, and the Scandinavian leagues are very good in Norway, in. In Sweden.

[A]

I have a question, because I don't know much about this, but, like, I know, yeah, European, whatever. All the soccer clubs, all these people that are really great, but, like, are half of those people not from Finland or the majority of the team, are they from Finland?

[B]

Well, when you get into, like, the European soccer leagues, you will see the leagues are primarily comprised of nationals. It's only when you get to the elite leagues, like, if you go into the English Premier League or La Liga, you'll see teams that don't have a single Spanish or a single Englishman on the pitch. As a Man United fan, I don't like Arsenal, and Arsenal was known for just bringing in all internationals anyway, for lower leagues and stuff, you'll have a lot of nationals, but you always do have internationals coming in. Yeah, so we had, I would say, predominantly Finnish players, but yet a lot of. Yet Kenyans and Ghanaians and. Or not Kenyans, Ghanaians, Nigerians and then Europeans, like Germans, a couple Americans, that kind of thing.

[A]

Yeah. And what was it like going over to play in Finland as opposed to like playing in the U.S. was there a culture shift going there? Was it like harder? I mean, weather wise? Let's just talk about the weather.

[B]

Yeah, I showed up, it was negative 30 degrees.

[A]

Insane. And you're not training outside at that point?

[B]

No, you're training inside. But the Finnish soccer players are like the Finnish culture, it can be very abrasive at times. Rough, tough, not soft. I mean, Finns are not pansies and they are very. I mean, they're a strong people and can be an abrasive people sometimes, especially for us Americans. Like, it would be very abrasive for us. They don't feel compelled by the social norms that we have. Like, I remember we'd be eating a pre game meal or something and I'd be trying to talk to my teammates and they'd go, jeremy, we're eating. I'm like, okay, like, let's talk, you know, and they're like, we're eating. Like they just want to eat. We'll talk after. Or like, as Americans, we feel the need to like fill the silence with.

[A]

Yeah, like pleasantries.

[B]

So how was your day? Yeah, so what you've been up to? Because we don't want this awkwardness, they'll just sit there. They're not awkward. If there's something to talk about, they'll talk about it. And the training was very much like that. The jump from the collegiate game or the amateur level game to the professional game. One of the biggest aspects is speed, speed of play and the physicality. And going to Finland, it was very much like, that's very fast, very physical. So it's not like an Italian or Spanish league, which is a lot more technical and yeah, a mental beautiful game. It's a lot of physical. And so for me that was a huge adjustment. We would do the training and even in Syracuse they like consider your body in preseason. They're like, all right, we're going to take this day off or we're going to do a rest relaxation day. We would do two or three a days in the Finnish winter indoor on hard turf. And we would train for two hours every session, two or three times a day. And it was just like constant pounding. And the game itself was very physical. I was thinking about this the other day. I've only recently stopped getting periodic headaches from some of the elbows to the temple. I Received during games there.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

You know, you go to scoop up the ball, and the guy would run through and he'd put an elbow to your temple. And I remember one time, I'm like, I think I blacked out on the field. And then I came to played the game, went to the hospital afterwards, or like, the. The team doctor went to the hospital, scheduled an mri, and they're like, yep, no, you're good. You're not concussed. And I'm like, no, I'm pretty sure I've got a concussion. Like, that's insane. Remember, is it in Tommy Boy where he says, it doesn't hurt so much here or here, more here, and he's got this huge black spot on his face? I was like, no, I'm pretty sure I'm concussed. Like, it's a pounding headache that won't go away on this side of my head where I was elbowed in the temple. And they were like, yeah, take these pain meds and you're fine. And I was like, okay. I think we're so.

[A]

What is, like. What would you say is the biggest misconception about being a pro athlete and specifically a pro soccer player?

[B]

That's a good question, babe.

[A]

Thank you. Chatty Patty.

[B]

I love it. You're a good interviewer.

[A]

Well, some of these questions are mine.

[B]

I wonder if Diane Sawyer, how she interviewed with Aunt Chatty Patty.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

She just had to think about it. Yeah, the biggest misconception. Yeah. Okay. Well, I think a ton of people, when you look at what is highlighted professionally, first of all, there's a massive jump from the amateur game to the professional game.

[A]

Do you think part of that's because of the pay? Like, you're being paid so much to play as a pro. Like, some of these guys, like, I mean, multimillion dollar contracts, they have so much pressure to perform. Do you think that's, like, helpful or not?

[B]

Well, it changes the game for sure. So a lot of guys experience this change from the game they've always loved to. It's strictly business. And before you play. Yeah, there's business involved as well. Full ride in college or whatever, but it's not as cutthroat. They're not turning college coaches over every two years. You know, they're trying to let them build a program, typically. But in the college game, it's like everybody's job is on the line always. And so there's this cutthroat environment. So that changes the nature of the game. It's just a lot more demanding. The other aspect of that is, like, you. You could get traded at any time, especially in an American league, or depending on the contract, you could just have a bad performance and they trade you another team, your whole family's uprooted, you gotta move.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

And so the demands of that. But then one of the misconceptions is the jump from the amateur game to the professional game is a much wider gap than people realize. And so you always hear the guy who is like a wannabe kind of be like, oh, yeah, I played with that guy. I could have gone pro. But. And you go, okay. But actually, even if you're looking at lower league pros, whether it's in soccer or any other sport, to get to that level, there's a significant jump. So perfect example in America for the mls. Every year we have this draft from college players into the mls that is not a guaranteed contract. If you're drafted, that means you're welcomed to training camp. We had so many guys come through training camp who were drafted. I don't think a single one. Maybe one got signed. It was like, oh, yeah, this guy was a top prospect. He killed it in college for four years. He comes to training camp, they look at him for two days, go, yeah, no. No interest.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And so you realize, like, okay, it gets very tight at the top. And so it's easy to look at a guy, you know, who's like, not playing a lot or in a lower second division and be like, ah, I could have played with him. You go, well, no, there's. To put ink on the paper. There's a lot of pieces that. But the other aspect is we focus so much of our media attention on that 1% of the 1%. So if only 1% of kids go pro in a sport, in a country like America, it's different in other countries, I'm sure, but similar statistics. Then our media is focused on the 1%. Turn on SportsCenter. Every day, you will see the same names. Luka Doncic, Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, LeBron James. They're constantly being talked about. Well, they're just a few people amongst the hundreds or thousands of people in that sport. Most professional athletes are not just sitting on guaranteed $40 million contracts, and it depends what sport and what level, but the off season is cutthroat because guys are. If they're not on a guaranteed contract, for instance, we were just. We just had Jordan Konashik from the NFL. He was a journeyman in the NFL, played six years primarily with the Browns. Came out and spoke to our athletes at the university. He's Christian, godly guy. And here's a reality we don't think about. If you're a journeyman, you're fighting for a contract, right? Well, you're in training camp, you're not on a guaranteed money, you're not in guaranteed contract, you get a concussion. Are you reporting that?

[A]

No. Just keep playing through because you don't want to be let go.

[B]

Yeah. You go on concussion protocol, and they just. Now you're a non factor and they have no obligation to you. You're not on contract.

[A]

Hmm.

[B]

So next.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

So your whole career's over because of concussion? No way. So I asked Jordan how many concussions you have. He said, no clue because he wouldn't report.

[A]

What's your name?

[B]

He's like, no, I mean, he's doing fine. But you see, like, the environment is like. That environment is so intense.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Because you're fighting for your life. And so you would see it like, guys, if they start having a bad string of games, it's not just like, yeah, I gotta keep my head up. You start seeing the pressure of their family, the pressure of their career. And some guys handle it better than others. And the off season's coming, and they're dreading it. Like, when I was at New York City with the Red Bulls, they came in and cut 17 players. And most of the coaching staff, we underperformed. They just cleaned house. And guys could see that coming. I knew it was coming. But you realize, okay, I'm not gonna make the roster next year. And it becomes very cutthroat. And that's the side of professional sports I don't think people see on SportsCenter.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

They see people going like, yeah, Doncic signed for, you know, $600 million contract and should have been this. And we go, wow, that's pro sports. Not for most. You know, even with soccer, if you're watching European soccer, you're watching the top echelon of the top of the top for it to be on TV here.

[A]

So were there any great perks that you miss from being a pro athlete?

[B]

The food.

[A]

The food. Like at the Red Bull. Red Bull.

[B]

Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Eat breakfast. You walk in breakfast, anything you want for breakfast. And then lunch, it's like, oh, we're sushi today, steak tomorrow. You know, pay for everything. You know, that kind of thing. You travel, you're just. Because it has to do with Your body. Right. So everything's catered toward that. And for a guy like myself who

[A]

loves food, you love food like Jeremy loves food. That's his love language.

[B]

Yeah, that's a great part. I miss the camaraderie in the locker room. You realize how quickly you build bonds with guys when you are going into battle with them. You know, if you're in just normal span of life and you go, yeah, over the last few years, we've gotten to know some people, and it's been really sweet getting to know this couple, and we've become pretty good friends. And, well, if I go join a team with guys, the next day, we're homies. Like that. Because you're fighting together. You're having to. Yeah, you're having to. It's like going into war together, and it just creates this bond.

[A]

How was that, like, once you reached pro? I mean, did you feel like you changed at all? Was there a side of you, like, because of all the attention, being in that place where everybody's looking at you, all these young kids want to be like you? Did you feel like it. It changed who you were as a person at all?

[B]

No, I don't think it changed who I was, but the Lord was definitely doing something in my heart, and that's probably another story for another time, but he, I, I. He was exposing a lot of pride in my heart, and I definitely did have that thought. I mean, I had reached my goal, but I understood there was. There was a long way to go. Even as a pro, you're never. The job's not finished, you know? But, yeah, I think the Lord but I don't think if you would have met me, you would have gone, oh, wow, in college, he was so different. No, you would have said it was the same guy. But, yeah, it makes you hungry to achieve more.

[A]

What. What was it like? So we will get into this another time. I would love to have another conversation about it. But what was it like reaching your goal, and then as you reached your goal, realizing that everything that you had worked for, that passion was kind of shifting?

[B]

It was weird. Yeah, that's a good turning point. I mean, I. I wrestled with that because it was my obsession for so many years. When I realized that I was gaining another obsession, that bothered me because I. It wasn't one where my career stopped. And then I went, I guess, what should I do now? It was, my career stopped because I had a completely different passion.

[A]

You retired early?

[B]

I retired. I didn't want to play anymore. And, you know, some People look at that and they go, he played four years and you know, oh, he couldn't get a contract. I remember when I was at San Antonio, a good buddy of mine, Josh Saunders, had just signed with New York City fc. They're the coming into the league for the first year. And we were talking and he said, come on, man, like if NYCFC gave you a six figure contract, you'd sign. I went, no shot. Like, I have no desire to play. I'm done.

[A]

And why was that?

[B]

Well, my passion was completely replaced with a passion to preach the gospel. I mean, I remember walking around the stadium in San Antonio, smaller stadium, second division side, but eight or 10,000 people, maybe more, maybe, I don't know, 15,000 people fit in that stadium. And it would be packed on a Saturday night under the lights in San Antonio and beautiful manicured Bermuda grass. And it's exciting. An hour before the game, I'm walking the stadium. And I was more excited for the opportunity I'd have to share the gospel with a group of students coming to the game after the game than I was the game itself. And I started to realize something's wrong, but something's right here. Like, things are changing for me, my passion is being switched. And so for me, it was very much like I stopped playing and didn't even look back. You know, I had no. And even now, like, I don't ever go, like, man, I wish I could keep playing.

[A]

That would be the other question though, because a lot of people, like you said, if they get it taken away from them after all those years, there's a sadness that you feel and a part of you is missing. But you also, there's a side where you've been able to go into spaces and play. I remember when you signed up for that indoor soccer league and it was just people who were just trying to get their anger out and it was really terrible. And I walked into that, like, having not watched you play professionally ever, I was like, this is fun to watch you play. And you were like, oh my gosh, like the, it was frustrating for you.

[B]

Well, because you got a bunch of like accountants in their 30s who are on a Tuesday night just getting their

[A]

angry and they're not, like, they're not actually good. And that bothered you because.

[B]

Yeah, it's tough to play.

[A]

They're just playing like, and they're expecting you to throw yourself, you know, in harm's way as these guys are like getting their anger out. You're like, no shot you're gonna break a bone because you guys are acting crazy, like.

[B]

But then I got invited to. And that was cool.

[A]

Yeah. Then you moved over to the proper league.

[B]

One of my buddies who I used to play with, he played with on the Galaxy was like. I was like, dude, come out here and play with me on this thing. And he's like, no shot. But he said, downtown la, there's a group of guys, a bunch of pros, bunch of former pros. We play. And I was like, all right, that's where I gotta be.

[A]

That's all.

[B]

That was a lot of fun. So, you know, to have an outlet to play is fun, but it's not like this. I feel bad for some of my buddies, Some of my teammates. It's like their career's over and they don't know what to do, and it's an identity crisis. For me, it was like ministry was like, oh, I found my calling. Like, this is where I need to go. And then soccer became, okay, this is over next. Like, this part is now. And it's cool to be able to use now working with the university and the athletes there and things like that. I can use that passion and that experience for good.

[A]

Oh, yeah. It's super cool to see, like, what you've been able to do, even with the university where you work now, and developing programs for the athletes that are beneficial for them, even spiritually, on the spiritual side of things. But then cool programs, that's. It's really neat to see how, like, you're doing all of that. And, yeah, nothing's wasted and nothing is like, you know, these. The career that you had was part of your life story. But then it's awesome just to see how God's given you opportunities to use that even now.

[B]

Yeah, some fun. Hey, thanks for interviewing me, Jen.

[A]

Anytime. I actually, I told him that I wanted to interview him on this. It wasn't his idea. And he was like, I don't know. I don't know. I was like, yes, I'm doing this today. So thanks for sitting down and letting me interview you. And I want to get into the ministry side of things, too. I think we should talk about a couple Laredo things at some point and how all of that transpired, how we got there to ministry, get into the ministry world a bit.

[B]

I like it and I love you guys. Thanks for hanging out today for another episode of the Ginger and German podcast. Like, subscribe, do all the stuff. Leave us a review. Also, what would be cool is. Leave us some topics you want us to talk about in the comments below. We always look through those. Appreciate you guys and we will see you, God willing, next week.

[A]

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[B]

your patio a glow up.

[A]

Spring's calling. Ross. Work your magic.