When God Shows Up in Grief with Granger & Amber Smith

Summary

Podcast Summary: “When God Shows Up in Grief”

The Jinger & Jeremy Podcast
Guests: Granger & Amber Smith
Date: May 6, 2026

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Overview

In this deeply moving episode, Jinger and Jeremy Vuolo sit down with Granger Smith—former country music star turned pastor—and his wife Amber Smith, author of “The Girl on the Bathroom Floor.” They candidly share their journey through unimaginable grief after losing their son, River, and how that tragedy ultimately led them to genuine, saving faith in Christ. The conversation delves into marriage, parenting, the ups and downs of fame, and finding hope in seasons of suffering. They also discuss their new ministries, including the River Kelly Fund, and the specific ways God met them in the darkest valleys.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Life Before Loss: Music, Marriage, and Family

• Meeting and Early Careers ([01:10]-[10:22])

  • Amber was acting part-time when Granger messaged her to audition for his music video via Facebook. Their working relationship quickly turned into a romantic one, leading to engagement and marriage within a year.
    • “I played the love interest and then became the real one.” — Amber Smith ([01:21], [08:20])
  • Granger reflects on a decade spent grinding in the music industry before his viral "Earl Dibbles Jr." persona launched his career nationally ([13:14]-[16:48]):
    • “Music ended up being what the Lord used to get me to those places. But I had no idea during those decades of touring...the Lord was actually preparing me for something far different...” — Granger Smith ([06:32])

• Homesteading Life

  • Granger and Amber share about their Texas homestead, balancing rural living with modern conveniences ([03:02]-[03:58]).

2. The Shift to Ministry and Finding New Desires

• Shifting Passions ([16:48]-[19:06])
  • Jeremy and Granger exchange stories about leaving behind lifelong passions when God gives new ones—Jeremy in soccer, Granger in music.
    • “The Lord rearranged my passions…decreased my passion for touring and for music, and raised it for Him and for ministry.” — Granger Smith ([18:00])
  • Both describe a supernatural peace in walking away from past dreams, something they attribute only to the Holy Spirit.

3. The Valley of the Shadow: Losing River

• The Tragedy ([19:20]-[22:53])
  • Granger describes the loss of their three-year-old son River in a tragic drowning accident in 2019.
    • “All my hope was gone. Didn’t know where to turn, didn’t know where to go…that’s what the Lord used as the catalyst in that season of our life.” — Granger Smith ([21:54])
  • Amber shares the raw pain, yet notes how God used their heartbreak to draw them into true faith ([22:56]):
    • “God used that, the breaking of our hearts, to bring us to saving faith in Him. And there’s such goodness in that.” — Amber Smith ([23:08])

4. Meeting God in Suffering: Wrestling, Questions, and Hope

• Faith’s Turning Point

  • Both recount how opening the Bible together in their grief transformed their understanding of God, and how Christian “devotionals” were replaced with the “meat” of scripture.
    • “Let’s get rid of these devotionals…We need to eat meat.” — Granger Smith ([31:14])
    • “He truly is so close to the brokenhearted.” — Amber Smith ([25:14])
  • Amber discusses praying through tears in those early days:
    • “God, show me who you are. Reveal Yourself to me. I cannot do this alone.” ([25:21])

• Honest Wrestling with God ([35:14]-[36:51])

  • Amber acknowledges asking "Where is God?" is natural and human in grief.
    • “We highly underestimate who God is. We have Him so small that when something terrible happens, it’s like He's not big enough to help us...” — Amber Smith ([35:36])
  • Granger references Old Testament figures who also wrestled with God through suffering, naming Jacob/Israel ([36:46]).

• Christ’s Compassion in Suffering

  • Jeremy expands on how Jesus enters our suffering, not just as a distant deity but as the God who wept at Lazarus' tomb ([37:53]):
    • “He goes, yeah, I feel what you feel.” — Jeremy Vuolo ([37:56])

5. Their Marriage in Grief: The Pact

• A Covenant in the Hospital ([39:40]-[42:46])
  • Early into loss, Granger and Amber deliberately made a “pact” in the hospital garden not to let tragedy tear their marriage apart.
    • “Let’s promise each other we’re going to stay together. We’re not going to be a statistic.” — Granger Smith ([40:09])
  • Amber highlights mutual support and the refusal to blame each other as critical:
    • “God gave us that gift of going through that together...this is our marriage.” — Amber Smith ([41:37])
    • “We made a promise, a vow, a covenant before the Lord that we were gonna be in it for better or for worse. And I always say that was the worst part of our story.” — Amber Smith ([42:28])

6. Redemption: Ministry and Giving Back

• The River Kelly Fund ([43:49]-[45:42])
  • After River’s death, the Smiths started a charitable foundation in his honor, focused on giving back in diverse ways—hospital donations, clean water, cancer research, disability advocacy, and especially swim safety.
    • “I don’t know what the goal is…I just want to give wherever the Lord leads me to give.” — Amber Smith ([44:20])
    • Website: riverkellyfund.org

7. Words for the Grieving

• For the “Girl or Guy on the Bathroom Floor” ([45:45]-[48:41])
  • Granger offers a caution about “cultural Christianity”—living without true saving hope—and shares the gospel as the ultimate foundation in suffering.
    • “If there is no hope, then I would say, brother, you might not be saved. So we can start with the gospel.” — Granger Smith ([46:08])
  • Amber stresses presence and empathy, encouraging people not to stay alone in their sorrow:
    • “That bathroom floor moment is not the end of their story…it was the beginning of something very beautiful…” — Amber Smith ([47:24])
    • “You are seen, you are known, you are loved, you are not alone.” — Amber Smith ([48:26])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On grief and God’s presence:
  “He showed up and showed me that he truly is so close to the brokenhearted.” — Amber Smith ([25:13])

• On faith after tragedy:
  “That started a chain reaction in our lives that ultimately led us to a saving belief in the gospel that we thought we always had.” — Granger Smith ([21:57])

• On enduring marriage through loss:
  “We just did this really unromantic, hey, let’s just shake on this…we’re not gonna be a statistic in this.” — Granger Smith ([40:09])

• On hope for the suffering:
  “I want them to know that there is light and hope and that that bathroom floor moment is not the end of their story.” — Amber Smith ([47:24])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:10] Amber & Granger’s first meeting & courtship
• [13:14] The “Earl Dibbles Jr.” viral breakthrough in Granger’s music
• [18:00] Transition of calling: music to ministry
• [19:20] The tragedy of River’s death
• [23:05] Transformation in grief: “God used that, the breaking of our hearts…”
• [25:10] How did God meet you in deep darkness?
• [31:14] The shift: Reading the Bible for themselves
• [39:40] Their marriage pact in the hospital
• [43:49] The River Kelly Fund’s origin and vision
• [45:45] Words to the “girl/guy on the bathroom floor”

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Tone & Language

The episode is intimate, sincere, and faith-centered. Jinger and Jeremy bring gentle curiosity and pastoral care to the conversation. Granger and Amber are deeply honest, practical, and encouraging—often referencing scripture and speaking plainly about both their pain and their hope in God.

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Final Reflection

This episode offers an honest but hope-filled roadmap for anyone enduring loss or questioning God in suffering. Rather than easy answers, the Smiths invite listeners to an authentic faith anchored in the unchanging character of God, found on the pages of scripture and proven in the crucible of suffering.

>> Highly recommended for those experiencing grief, for couples, and for anyone wrestling with faith in life’s hardest seasons.

Transcript

[Amber Smith]

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[Granger Smith]

Done.

[Amber Smith]

Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic.

[Ginger]

We have Granger Smith, the incredible country musician turned pastor, along with his wife Amber Smith, who's written some incredible books. I think it's gonna be really encouraging.

[Amber Smith]

I was doing acting part time and he reached out to me and asked if I wanted to audition for his new music video. And since I was already doing acting, I thought, well, that'll be fun. It'll just be another thing that I can add to my resume. And so I played the love interest and then became the real one.

[Jeremy]

Wow, that's amazing.

[Granger Smith]

I always thought it was a Christian. I would have claimed Christianity as long as I rem remember what ultimately the catalyst was the death of our son river. He was three and in 2019 we lost him in the pool in our backyard. And I was there with all three kids. It happened in a minute. That started a chain reaction in our lives that ultimately led us to a saving belief.

[Ginger]

Something people wouldn't think about is like the impact that that kind of grief would have on your relationship. So what was the pact that of you made? What's going on? Guys? Welcome back to another episode of the Ginger and Jeremy podcast. And we're very excited today because we have Granger Smith, the incredible country musician turned pastor, along with his wife Amber Smith, who's written some incredible books. And their story is one of hope through suffering. And we're excited for them to talk to us today because I think it's going to be really encouraging.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, it is going to be an impactful episode for sure. So yeah, we're so excited that you guys are here. Thank you for coming all the way out to sunny LA to do this podcast with us.

[Granger Smith]

Yeah. This is a huge honor. Yeah. And the weather's beautiful, like you said, and we got some great food on the way, so. Yeah, this is great.

[Ginger]

And you're coming in from Texas.

[Granger Smith]

Coming in from Texas.

[Ginger]

Talk about it. Talk about Texas life. You guys are outside of Austin. The Internet says you live on a farm.

[Granger Smith]

I mean, that's funny. Does the Internet really say that?

[Ginger]

Yeah, the Internet says that.

[Granger Smith]

Yeah, we live. We have some land and some animals and some barns and a windmill.

[Ginger]

That's a farm, brother.

[Jeremy]

That is. If you have a windmill, you got a windmill.

[Ginger]

That's a farm.

[Granger Smith]

But I hesitate because, I mean, there's people around us that have real farms like, that are actually, like, harvesting corn right now, you know?

[Ginger]

Yeah, but we're in Los Angeles. We don't. Windmill, barn.

[Granger Smith]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

If you have more than an acre here, you live on a barn.

[Granger Smith]

Okay. Okay, Then, yes, we do have chickens and we have goats and a pig and, you know, the cats, dogs, and all the things.

[Ginger]

Would you consider yourselves, like, homesteader types or you not? Are you going to Trader Joe's?

[Granger Smith]

We do. Our water comes from a well.

[Amber Smith]

Yes, we.

[Granger Smith]

We have that going for us.

[Amber Smith]

We used to have bees.

[Granger Smith]

We used to. Yeah, we used to harvest honey. So, like, it depends on what circle we're running in that we could say we're homesteading and then other circles would be like, no, no, no, we're on the grid. Yeah.

[Jeremy]

That's awesome. I like it. So we. We need to hear a little bit about what season of life you're in. And I know we've talked a little bit about your music career, and it was incredible. We want to get into that.

[Ginger]

We're going to get into. Earl Dibbles Jr. Cashier, is very excited.

[Jeremy]

He wants to get into that. But we're going to hold off for a second. Where are you guys in life right now?

[Amber Smith]

Man, this is such a sweet season.

[Granger Smith]

Yeah, we've been saying that for a bit now.

[Amber Smith]

This has been a season for us, a season of reprieve. And it's. I feel like we go in seasons of five year increments in our family. It seems like something big happens every five years. And I was just saying. I finally feel. I think I said the beginning of last year. I finally feel like we're home again, like peace again. And I feel rested. And it's just been a joyful season where he's a pastor at our church and where he's shepherding the flock, and we are just enjoying this sweet time with a teenager now. Our daughter's 14, down to Maverick, who's 4, school and sports and walking with others at our church. It's just been. It's been a good time. I think it has.

[Granger Smith]

It's been a very sweet season. This is one of my favorite seasons we've ever had. And I could say that with confidence because I also recognize seasons change, you

[Amber Smith]

know, just gratitude in this season, I think, because seasons can change.

[Granger Smith]

Yeah.

[Amber Smith]

In the blink of an eye.

[Ginger]

Well, you guys have spoken so much about that, and I think what's so interesting about your lives and God's providence in your lives is, I mean, all of the ups and downs. And your journey is really an incredible one on so many levels. But through it all, you guys have testified of the faithfulness of the Lord through the challenges. And we want to get to your most recent book, the Girl on the Bathroom Floor. But you've also authored. And I would just say. And I don't know. Well, I'll ask you. My perspective. Our perspective, looking in on your life, is one of. Here's a couple who is just radiating hope even in the valley of the shadow of death. You know, the trials of life. Bring us into the journey. And maybe, Granger, we'll start with you, because some people are gonna be familiar, some people might not know, but you're a certified country legend, you and Earl. And maybe give us a bit of that journey, because along the way, at some point, pretty early on, you met Amber, but then the Lord also brought you into pastoral ministry. So bring us up to speed on

[Granger Smith]

what he's been doing. Well, praise the Lord that you see us as people that could witness the hope. And so that's a testament to the Lord for that. So thank you. That means a lot. And then. But you're giving me way too much credit on the music side. You're throwing out these words like incredible. It's just music is something I did for a very long time. Loved it. Loved. I felt. I mean, I could think back to age 4, is my earliest memory. I remember seeing a highway through a window at night and wondering where those cars were going and wishing I could go there with them. I just wanted to. To travel and just to go to new towns and eat new food, and I always wanted to do that. And music ended up being what the Lord used to get me to those places. But I had no idea during those decades of touring and playing music that the Lord was actually preparing me for something far different than what I thought. And so music, one of the. One of the wonderful things it did was the Lord used music to bring me Amber, my very first music video. I'd done, you know, like, touring, and we were playing in a lot of bars and no one was coming and. But my first radio Single was in 2009, and she was the love interest in my first music video.

[Ginger]

And was that just like a random gig you picked up, Amber?

[Amber Smith]

I was doing acting part time, and he reached out to me through Facebook.

[Granger Smith]

Facebook.

[Amber Smith]

Facebook, yeah. And asked if I wanted to audition for his new music video. And since I was already doing acting, I thought, well, that'll be fun. It'll just be another thing that I can add to my resume. And so I played the love interest and then became the real one.

[Ginger]

Wow.

[Jeremy]

That's amazing. I love it. Okay, so you, at that point, you were in full time music. How did that transpire? Like, I mean, you. Did you just, like, meet and then fall in love immediately? Was it love at first sight?

[Granger Smith]

Kind of, yeah. I found her on people you may know tab on Facebook. We had actually done a little. A little audition from Craigslist that was. That didn't end up well.

[Jeremy]

Okay.

[Granger Smith]

And I was a little discouraged. And that night I saw her. Her little face on, you know, people you may know. And I was like, now whoever that is, that she's the one that would be great. So then I sat there for a second. I was like, I mean, what do I have to lose? Why wouldn't I just message her? So I messaged her and she said yes. And then we did this little music video. I mean, super low budget, and it's called don't listen to the radio. And she came and we. We spent this day where it was just, you know, kind of a fairy tale day of the story of this couple. And I definitely felt something for her. And then a few days went by, and she's the one that had the guts to tell me, hey, was it just me or did, like, did I. Was there something more than just a video music video going on? And I was like, yeah, I think you're right. Could you just not be sure if

[Ginger]

she was just, like, a good actor or not?

[Granger Smith]

Like, no, I think that's why I didn't message her about that. I just thought, there's no way. She's just a good.

[Ginger]

How would you know the difference? Like, you did your job really well. Then he comes and going, hey, we had something. You're going, what are we talking about? You paid me 100 bucks. What'd you want from me?

[Granger Smith]

It wasn't even 100. Yeah.

[Ginger]

But I mean, so you guys. That was like serendipitous. I guess you guys just connected on it.

[Granger Smith]

Yeah. From that music video. We met that day, and then we were engaged about six months later. Right. And then married five or six months after that.

[Jeremy]

That is so sweet.

[Ginger]

And at that time in your career, music was your world because you were pursuing that full time. You said you were in it for a long time.

[Granger Smith]

Yeah, I moved to Nashville at 19, married her at 29. So that was the 10 year stretch of just the grind, just trying to get anything going.

[Ginger]

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[Amber Smith]

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[Jeremy]

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[Amber Smith]

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[Jeremy]

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[Ginger]

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[Amber Smith]

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[Ginger]

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[Jeremy]

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[Ginger]

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[Jeremy]

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[Ginger]

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[Amber Smith]

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[Ginger]

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[Jeremy]

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[Ginger]

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[Jeremy]

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[Ginger]

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[Jeremy]

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[Ginger]

And what was your break like in terms of the music career?

[Granger Smith]

Earl Dibbles Jr. Really?

[Ginger]

So he broke it open?

[Granger Smith]

Yeah, I mean, we had like a small regional following in Texas, but Earl Dibbles Jr. Who you mentioned earlier, it was, it was my brother, was. Is my manager. I say was. Is because I. He's still involved. We still work together a lot. And he was like, hey, you know, we had these different YouTube videos that we had put out, these different characters. We were just trying to get anything to stick. Anything you Remember in like 2007, 8, 9. YouTube was somewhat of a novelty. And you could, you could find things that went viral that were really interesting. Now everything seems to be interesting and new and novel, but back then, not a lot was novel. And he had this idea of this ultra country boy character, Earl Dibbles Jr. That a voice that I had used. You know, it sounded like some people we knew and kind of a, you know, between family and friends and people we worked with kind of all combined this ultra country boy. And he's like, I want to film this video. And we'll call it Earl Dibbles Jr. And. And we grabbed some overalls and a white tank top and some red wing boots and a trucker cap and we drew on some sharpie tattoos. And yeah, we went down. This is where my mom and dad live in Central Texas. And we just acted out this. No, the first thing I did was I got on a porch and just talked about my day, what I did during the day. This kind of jaded country boy that he felt like no one understood him. People were judging him all the time. You know, he talked about what he did during the day. And then. And I was just making it up. Right. There was no script. And then after that, we did some B roll, acting out what I had talked about. Super Simple. Went back to the house, edited it. We thought it was funny. We were laughing, but we didn't know. And we put it on. On the Internet. And it goes viral.

[Ginger]

Oh, yeah. I mean, you look at those videos, there's tens of millions of views, and then you look at the comments, and people are still on The Earl Dibbles Jr. Train, like, to this day.

[Granger Smith]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

How did you feel about the alter ego? Did you always know Earl and then this was just like an introduction to the public, or were you like, what are you doing?

[Amber Smith]

No, I always knew other characters because he always did funny videos. He had a couple of them that I wish would have gone viral, and they didn't. There was a couple of really funny guys. So I knew he always. They always had fun making videos. But I didn't know Earl before he kind of went viral. Yeah.

[Granger Smith]

Yeah. So that led people back to the album that we had just put out. And that album was called Dirt Road Driveway. So that the album came out, and Earl came out, and there was two Earl songs on the album. Right? Is that right? Yeah. So that just created a window, an opportunity for us to. We had just a little underground viral following that we could go all over the country at that point to play these little rock bars or coffee shops that held a couple hundred people, and we could fill it. 180 people in a coffee shop in, like, Cleveland. We had never been to Ohio, but we. And we were in a van just doing this, and it was so fun. This was 2012, 13 then. I didn't sign a record deal until 2014. But before that, it was just. We were just on our own. The Wild West.

[Ginger]

So there's a part of your story that I really resonate with personally, and it's, you know, pursuing something that you had loved since you were a child. I was obsessed with soccer.

[Granger Smith]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

And it was my whole world. I mean, that's all I wanted to do. I didn't even think I would do anything else. It wasn't like, oh, maybe I'll play soccer or do this. And then I became a professional soccer player. And it was like that first year playing pro, I start feeling this burden for ministry. And by year four, I don't want to play. It was like the Lord had completely taken that passion. And I remember walking around, like, a stadium, which was, you know, in an Hour's time going to be filled with fans playing a game on a Saturday night under the lights and just thinking, I'm more excited about, you know, teaching a Bible study tomorrow morning on the Sunday, or speaking to a group of kids who are coming to the game about the gospel. And it's like the Lord evaporated that passion, but replaced it with a new one. And that's something that. I'm fascinated by your story because I want to hear how that shift happened in your life as well, because now you're preaching the gospel and you've got this driving passion. How did that come about in your life?

[Granger Smith]

Yeah. Delight yourself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart. Not that he gives you what you want, like soccer or music, but he gives you his desires and rearranges yours. And so that's definitely what happened to me, is I could resonate exactly with what you're saying. It just took me a little bit longer. But the Lord rearranged my passions, decreased my passion for touring and for music, and raised it for him and for ministry. And it was proportional in the way that he did it. Where I. Today I sit here and I go, yeah, I don't miss it. I don't have it. Do you have a desire to go play soccer? Professional soccer? Yeah. That's weird. That's. That's a testament. That's only a testament to the Holy Spirit.

[Ginger]

Like, their careers ended because they were injured or they couldn't get picked up by a team, and they're like, okay, I gotta do something else. But it's aching inside of them.

[Granger Smith]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

It's like their true love for me. I put the cleats down, was like, I'm done.

[Granger Smith]

It doesn't make any sense.

[Ginger]

And I'll still go to stadiums, watch my friends play, and I'm sure happy for them.

[Granger Smith]

Sure.

[Ginger]

Yeah. It's just, like, taken away.

[Granger Smith]

Have you ever. This is. We're getting off. But have you ever gone to, like, Latin America and played with those kids?

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Granger Smith]

And then you go, oh, Lord, this is. This is interesting.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Granger Smith]

I was playing music just a few weeks ago in Latin America going, wait a minute. Oh, Lord, I could play any song that they're singing. That's interesting. No crowds, just, you know, 12 teenagers right here. So, yeah, it's only the Lord. That's such a testament. Because that doesn't make any sense. Why you would just suddenly walk away from it. No human would do that. Something ingrained in you and music in me, and especially the desire for more and for a bigger stage. But what the Lord did to get me there was ultimately the catalyst was the death of our son river. He was three and in 2019, we lost him in the pool in our backyard. And I was there with all three kids. Amber was in the house and it happened in a minute, literally. And I was playing gymnastics with my daughter. The boys were playing water gun fight. And within a moment river had gotten into.

[Jeremy]

We.

[Granger Smith]

We made. Perhaps both of the boys got into our. The gate. And it had never happened like that before and we still don't know. But when I looked over my shoulder, when it was, when it quieted down, I looked over my shoulder and I saw him in the pool. And I couldn't believe. It didn't make any sense how he could be in there and Lincoln wasn't with him. And my daughter, I mean, we were 20ft from it, but it was silent. My daughter, who was doing this gymnastics routine, was looking towards it, never saw it. It's almost as we've said this before, it's almost as if we were momentarily blinded from that. And I, I grabbed him and he was lifeless. We, London runs in, grabs Amber, she comes out. We were both. We were both just in shock is not really the right word. We just, we couldn't, we couldn't process in real time to keep up. I didn't have my phone on me. Amber had to go back and get a phone. We called 911, we tried to do CPR the best we knew. The emergency services arrived and we're able to revive his heartbeat. But ultimately, as we found out in just a few days, it was too late. He had gone too long. 10 minutes. By the time it took them to get there. 10 minutes was too long for his brain without oxygen. That started a chain reaction in our lives that ultimately led us to a saving belief in the gospel that we thought we always had. I always thought I was a Christian. I would have claimed Christianity as long as I can remember. I had faithful parents that raised us in a Christian household. But I didn't recognize until then I wasn't saved. And I. And part of that recognition was that when we lost River, I had no hope. All my hope was gone. Didn't know where to turn, didn't know where to go. And I'm talking a lot, but that. But ultimately that's what the Lord used as the catalyst in that season of our life.

[Ginger]

How was that season for you, Amber?

[Amber Smith]

Awful. Yeah, Awful. Yeah. You know, it's hard to talk about now because we are six years down the road, and the Lord has healed so much of our heart.

[Granger Smith]

But you know what's crazy? Almost seven.

[Amber Smith]

Almost seven now. Yeah, in June. But God used that, the breaking of our hearts to bring us to saving faith in him. And there's such goodness in that. And we can look back now with fresh eyes and see the goodness that has come from that. And, you know, he's now in ministry, and we have these books, and not that books are important, but we're sharing the goodness of God and we're sharing the gospel with the hurting people. And most importantly, we're saved. We believe, and we have a saving faith in Christ. And none of that would have happened without a devastating season in our lives. And we can see that all throughout the Bible that God, you know, the people that God calls and use mightily in scripture, all went through seasons of darkness and wilderness and pain and suffering and death. And, yeah, it was a rough few years of grief, but we looked at each other in the hospital and said we weren't gonna let anything tear our family apart, that we were going to fight for each other and look for the good in this. And it was messy, but we've done that, and we're stronger because of it.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, I think that is a testament of God's kindness and grace in drawing you to himself in that season. Because I think we see so much in the world where people question God in seasons like that. And the interesting thing that you both are saying is that that's when you met the Lord. Truly. That's when he drew near to you and saved you in that deepest, darkest pain. And I want you to kind of just expand on that. Like, just how. How did you see. See the goodness of God in that deep darkness? Because without Christ before, you fully knew, you know, his goodness and care for your soul, now you can look back all these years later and see what he has done. But in that pain and darkness, what was the truth that God revealed to you even in that time?

[Granger Smith]

That's such a good question. I love that question.

[Amber Smith]

Yeah.

[Granger Smith]

Do you want to start?

[Amber Smith]

Sure. Yeah. Like you said, we were living a, quote, worldly, good, happy life. Like, he had a good music career, we had a good marriage, our children were healthy. We were happy. We had our dream home. We don't say that anymore. Everything was going forever home, forever home. We used to say, it's our forever home. Everything can change quickly. But we weren't crying out to God in those good seasons, our mountaintop moments. It was when the Lord brought us to our knees and brought us to the end of ourselves. That we finally realized, you know, we had to humble ourselves and realize we are not in control. We don't have as much strength as we thought. And we need the Lord. And he showed up in that season that the valley of the shadow of death. He showed up and showed me that he truly is so close to the brokenhearted. And I don't know why some people run away, but I ran towards the Lord. And it really. The transformation came for us when we started reading the Scriptures, when we opened up to Matthew 1 and started reading the Bible together. And I just prayed through tears as I read it. In my dark season, God, show me who you are. Reveal yourself to me. I cannot do this alone. I cannot do this on my own strength. And he did it every day that I would come back and read the Scriptures. He showed me his sovereignty on every single page. How he does everything. He doesn't miss a thing. And how he does love us and he does have a plan. And he sent his Son for us. And just all the things, truly with such freedom. There's such freedom in. In learning who the God of the Bible is. Not who the world says that he is, but who the God of scripture is. And he just revealed himself to me and set us free.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Amber Smith]

From guilt and shame. Are you looking up a verse?

[Granger Smith]

No, I'm looking up on my. Because I just saw this on my daily journal, my digital journal. Here it is. This was yesterday, six years ago. Six years ago yesterday. It says, dear Journal, it's been so long. The kids go back to school this morning after the fall break and we need that consistency. I just finished a 10 minute meditation. The kids have their elves that came yesterday. I hear them running around looking for those. Allergies have been bothering me. I'm about to leave for a West coast tour on Wednesday. I'm still very sad. I still struggle with the reality of a new normal. I'm still waiting on a slow healing. For Amber and I both on site, therapy helped a lot. I think they say it puts you on a 2% change that ends up being a great distance over time. At least see my face here.

[Amber Smith]

You look like a different human.

[Granger Smith]

Yeah. So what I didn't know was that west coast tour I'm referring to ended up really breaking me. Because you could hear in my. In my writing here. I'm relying on myself. What could I. How could I meditate? How could I. What kind of therapy? What. How early can I get up in the morning? What Kind of self help, like, let me go make sure I'm eating right and working out right. And everything was what I could control. Keep in mind, this is the guy that claimed he was a Christian, but there was no God in that post at all. It was, but I was very sad. I ended up going on that west coast tour and it ended up coming to the very end of myself, and it was at the very end of myself through. One of the realizations on that tour was I don't think therapy worked at all after all of what I thought we had built and all we had grown from, it actually was all for nothing. And I cried out to the Lord in Boise, Idaho, late one night on the back of my tour bus and the Lord met me there. And I don't believe. Like, if we're just thinking theologically, I don't believe I was saved then. But I believe through my calling out to him, something changed in the way that I wanted to seek him. Because suddenly I recognized, I don't think the Jesus I have been following all these years is who he really is. I think I've underestimated him wildly. And it was that day that I started seeking him through at that time through online sermons and podcasts. And that took me just on a wild road that then the hunger was growing. And then just a few months after that, a friend of mine sent me John Piper, and I was listening to Piper in a sermon out of John 14, and I was driving and partly answers your question because I was so distracted, I was no longer thinking about poor me. Now I'm thinking about who is this God that met me in Boise, Idaho? So John Piper's preaching out of John 14 and disciple asked Jesus, Lord, why is it that you manifest yourself to us but not to the world? I'm like, oh, that's a really good question. Like, maybe that's the question I've come for. Maybe that's what I've been wanting to know. And then Jesus answered him in a way that it was like reverse psychology to my mind. He said, if anyone loves me, he'll keep my word and my father will love him and we will come to him and make our home with him. But what he wasn't saying was, keep my word and I'll love you. He was saying, you'll know the people that I love because those are the people that keep my word.

[Ginger]

Yeah, that's so good.

[Granger Smith]

That's what they look like. That's how you could tell my people. But in the reverse psychology, I already knew I was one of those people. And yet I also knew I was not. I wouldn't have been counted as a person that kept his word. So suddenly I wanted to. As an overflow from what I already knew. The identity that I was. I was one of his. At that moment, the spirit was bearing witness with my spirit, that I was a child of God. And then when I knew I was a child of God, when the spirit bore witness with my spirit, I wanted to look like one, not to earn it. That was already earned. But I wanted. Then I was like, now I want to keep his. How do I keep his? I don't know. His word. Let's start with that. That's when I came home with Amber and I was like, let's start. Let's get rid of these devotionals. We were like devotional junkies at the time. That was our word of God. It was a devotional. And I recognized this is salad. We need some steak. We need to eat meat. So we started reading together, starting in Matthew. And I was so. Just those first 28 days in Matthew, I was so overwhelmed by the God of the Bible as he revealed himself through his word that all this self deprecating. Poor me, I lost my son. I'm so sad. It just started crumbling as I recognized who he was. And that journey has not stopped since that day.

[Amber Smith]

Wow.

[Granger Smith]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

Yeah. The Lord is not this, like, quick fix to our problems, like a little band aid we put on and you became acquainted with the God of the Bible?

[Granger Smith]

Yes.

[Ginger]

And was that. So he's going through all that. He's on the west coast and he comes home. Are you like, whoa, buddy, like, what's going on here? Like, don't shove the Bible down my throat? Or were you like, I need this? Did the Lord just work in tandem there?

[Amber Smith]

Yeah. Thankfully we were tracking at the same time, which doesn't always happen, especially for couples. But I didn't know a lot of stuff that happened on the West Coast. Like, it was a very dark night for him and he wrote about it. I didn't know that till three years later, but when he came in, I literally had probably 10 devotionals on my table, trying to grasp for a little bit of encouragement to get me through my day. And he said, babe, I think we need to put all these away. We need to read the word of God. And I was just like, okay, where do we start? And we just started together. And thankfully the Lord put us on the same track and we just tracked along together.

[Ginger]

Your book, the girl on the bathroom floor. Goes into that moment of grief. But you don't actually begin there. You begin on the bathroom floor with another moment of grief. Talk about that. Both why you started the book there and how that sort of shaped you leading up to the moment you guys are describing now.

[Amber Smith]

Yeah, so that happened after. So I start the book on the bathroom floor. I'm going through a miscarriage. And I had the miscarriage after we started reading our Bibles. So I was in a much different place spiritually then. In that moment in my miscarriage, I fully had put my trust in the Lord, and I knew that he had brought us through our worst pain with the death of our son, that there was purpose in this, too, and that he would bring me through this, too. So I just fully trusted the Lord in that. And Granger actually gave me the title for the book because he said, you need something raw, you need something real. You were the girl on the bathroom floor. And I was just like, that's it. That's where I was. And I started there because I think so many people that might pick up the book are there. They might be on day one or week one or month one of their grief. And so I just wanted to meet them there, but also show them that I don't want them to stay stuck there and that there is hope and there is joy and his name is Jesus, and that we can get through this together. So that's why I started there.

[Ginger]

And one of your biggest wrestlings, and Ginger mentioned it just a minute ago, where is God in this? And a lot of people have a tendency to run away from God in those moments, maybe because they're angry at how he would allow this, whatever that temptation would be. And you wrestled with that. Where is God? I mean, the psalmist, you know, you go to the Psalms, we talk about that.

[Granger Smith]

Psalm 13 is a good one for that. Yeah.

[Ginger]

He's always like, where are you? Will you abandon me forever? Because theologically, I know God's here. I know he sees this. I know he's sovereign, but why isn't he meeting me in this moment? And you talk about those moments where he'd break through and so talk about that wrestling of where is He?

[Amber Smith]

I think those are all human feelings. I mean, of course we're going to wonder, where is God in this? Why would God allow something like this? Why is there so much suffering in the world? I think one of the most asked questions on Google is, why does God allow so much suffering? Or if God is real, why is there so much pain in the world. And I think that's why we have to know the God of Scripture. Like Granger said, we highly underestimate who God is. And we have him so small that when something terrible happens, it's like he's not big enough to help us or to fix it or. But all throughout the Scriptures, he doesn't just fix things. He doesn't remove our trials. He walks with us through them. And when we come to know the God of the Bible, we only have to look to the cross. If you say, where is God in all of this? He's right there. He sent his only son to die for you and for me. He's right there with us in and through it. And he has a purpose, a redeeming purpose, and he is good and loving. So that was my transformation, is searching for who he was, and that's who he just revealed himself to be. That he is still the same God yesterday, today, and tomorrow, forever. That he's still ruling and reigning and he hasn't lost control of everything. And just seeing the stories of scripture, Job and Joseph and, you know, all the people who went through seasons of suffering, you see that God never left them. He was always with them. And he always had a purpose greater than our own finite minds could even understand.

[Granger Smith]

In fact, Jacob was renamed he who Wrestles with God, Israel.

[Ginger]

Yeah, it's incredible. We see that through the Old Testament. Like, God comes alongside God comes along, comes down. And yet in the incarnation of Christ, we see a Savior who doesn't just, you know, pity us from afar, but he actually enters the suffering.

[Granger Smith]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

So he says in those moments, and I wish more people would be told this, whether it's from a pastor or from a friend. I think so often Christians can be so quick to give, like, a theological fix or, like, try to prophesy, like, hey, time will heal this wound because they're not in it. And that's not Jesus response. Like, there's a reason Jesus wept over Lazarus Tomb. There's a reason he weeps for the widow in Luke 8 who loses her son and then raises her son. Because he's showing us something about the nature of compassion and the reality of his own humanity where he doesn't say, oh, come on, Amber. Like, don't you know I'm in control? And don't, you know, one day you'll give thanks for this?

[Granger Smith]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

He goes, yeah, I feel what you feel.

[Amber Smith]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

And so, like you read in Isaiah 53, which is this, like, mountain peak of the suffering of Christ, and you go, oh, he Gets it like he's not alien to me, being confused, grief ridden in a puddle on the bathroom floor, wondering how can I keep going tomorrow? He understands it on every level and he always did as God. But in his kindness, he lets us know that he understands by taking on human flesh and being right there with us.

[Granger Smith]

So good.

[Ginger]

I remember Tim Keller saying, you know, we don't know all the reasons why God allows everything to this, that you'll never know the side of heaven, like why that happened with your son. All the, you'll know some of the reasons and you know, big picture like, oh, God is working all things for good and we see some of the good. But Keller says, I can tell you why it isn't. It's not because he doesn't care. Because if he didn't care, he wouldn't have entered into the suffering in order to rescue us from it. So whatever reason it is, I can eliminate that. It's, you know, we don't have a God who doesn't care.

[Amber Smith]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

And you began to feel that and experience that and you write about that. So, like vividly. I'm curious about one aspect of what you wrote about in the Girl in the Bathroom Floor and that was the pact that the two of you made together. Because maybe one of the like silent dangers or I don't know how to put it, but something people wouldn't think about is like the impact that that kind of grief would have on your relationship. So what was the pact that the two of you made?

[Granger Smith]

I think we recognized early that danger that most couples don't make it. I don't know the statistic, but it's over 50%.

[Amber Smith]

I know our parents were very concerned and worried.

[Granger Smith]

Yeah, it usually leads to divorce, something like that. And so yeah, it's multi layered. But the pact that you're talking about happened in the hospital. And I don't know who initiated that. Was it me or you that initiated that?

[Amber Smith]

I think you did.

[Granger Smith]

We were out in this serenity garden and just kind of in the aftermath of organ donation and you know, friends and family and like river is not going to come back and like all of this and we just did this really unromantic, hey, let's just shake on this. Like, look, let's, let's promise each other we're going to stay together. Like we're not going to be a statistic in this.

[Amber Smith]

I think you said, babe, we have to find, we have to find the good in this. We have to try to find the good, not the reasons but we have to try to find the good in this, and we can't let anything tear us apart.

[Granger Smith]

And anytime I talk about that, though, I always say your end was much harder to uphold than my end, because I was in the backyard with Riv. You weren't. And so you at any time could have said, in your lowest moment, you could have said, babe, how could you have done this? Where were you? How did you let this happen? And never did you do that. Not once, not even in your lowest, weakest moment did you snap at me and say, you caused this. You never did. And that could have completely broke me. I don't know. It might have broken me completely.

[Amber Smith]

Yeah, that's only by the grace of God, because I just. I always tell people I didn't ever feel that. I didn't feel that we were. By the grace of God, we were both home at the same time, which we weren't ever usually home. He was gone or I was gone or. And we experienced that together. And God gave us that gift of going through that together. And I felt, as we're both performing CPR on our son, like, we are both fighting for our son here. This is our son. This is our marriage. This isn't a. You know, I could go on a tangent, but I felt guilt that I didn't put river to bed earlier. I didn't. You know, I should have taken the boys inside. So there's all kinds of parenting guilt that we both feel. So how dare I put any sort of blame on you? But that was just by the grace of. Of God that we did that. And so we made that kind of pact and just said, you know, nothing's gonna tear us apart. We're gonna choose each other every day.

[Granger Smith]

And we said, this is gonna get hard.

[Amber Smith]

It's gonna be hard.

[Granger Smith]

We know it's gonna get really hard

[Amber Smith]

because we both grieved very differently. But I think so often people give up and they just think about their own selves in their marriage. And we made a pact. We made a promise, a vow, a covenant before the Lord that we were gonna be in it for better or for worse. And I always say that was the worst part of our story. So we've just chosen each other.

[Ginger]

I love in both of your voice because you've written as well and included and written about this as well. But what I think our listeners are going to so appreciate about this book is it handles and tackles very difficult topics, the most difficult you could imagine. And yet there's always this ray of sunshine that's genuine and real. Like you said, steak you can stick your teeth into. And the reality is no one's gonna escape suffering. But do we have hope? Do we have a foundation for enduring it? And there's some really cool stories that I don't wanna spoil everything for the book, like the Rainbow at River's funeral. But I would like you guys to tell us about the River Kelly Fund because you have become really passionate about safety for swimming as well. And so inform us on the River Kelly Fund and what that is. What's the goal? Yeah, tell us about that.

[Granger Smith]

So you said. But first I want to address what you're talking about with her book. I've had several people, I've heard several people say, I'm not in a good place to read it or I'm not ready, I need to work myself up to read it. I'm like, no, it has a good ending. There's hope in this book. It's gonna start off rough, but it gets. There's a happy ending. And that's. I try to push that on people like, no, this isn't just a sad book. This isn't a book for a rainy day. This is a very hopeful book. Okay, sorry, go.

[Amber Smith]

Yeah, yeah. So the River Kelly Fund started early on when we left the hospital. The hospital was just so kind and caring for our family. And Tyler, our brother in law, both of our brothers created this T shirt to try to give back. And it had a little excavator, river love excavators. And so that was our very first big fundraiser. And it grew to beyond anything we could have imagined. And we were able to donate, gosh, I think over $200,000 back to the hospital. And that was like a glimmer of light and hope in that dark time. And I knew finding the good, bringing good from it, that I wanted to keep giving back. And so we created the River Kelly Fund and we've given back to, I think, 35 different organizations all across the globe. And it helped me to find purpose in my pain, to not just sit in my sorrow, but try to help other people. And drowning is our story. But that's not who river was. That's not his life. And so we just wanted to give back any way that we could in honor of him and spread light and love for him. So I don't know what the goal is. I don't have super high expectations. I just want to give wherever the Lord leads me to give. Like we just funded a water project in Africa and now 250 people in a remote part of Africa now have clean water just from the kind people that have donated. And we've helped cancer research and citizens with special needs. And I don't know that I have a big vision. It's just wherever the Lord leads us to give.

[Ginger]

And how would you recommend people going to fund?

[Amber Smith]

You can go to riverkellyfund.org okay, I

[Ginger]

think I would like you guys to have the opportunity thinking about that girl on the bathroom floor and really you could say the guy on the bathroom floor too, because, you know, it's a universal experience. What would you want them to hear from the two of you and to hear from your story?

[Granger Smith]

I'm working on another book right now that if the Lord wills, will come out next fall. But it's going to be on Cultural Christianity because it's a big part of my story. And in fact, this, this book. Should I say the title? Like, am I talking titles? I don't know. I will say it anyway. It's going to be basically 11 different signs that I wish I would have known that I wasn't saved, because that's a big part of my testimony. And I think. And one of those signs is that you're living with no hope. And so for someone that's on that bathroom floor, if there is no hope, then I would say, brother, you might not be saved. So we can start with the gospel. You know, Christ came to redeem sinners, to bring them back to God, to stand in their place, to be their substitute, to take on the wrath of God that they deserved. So that because you're loved, you could be a child of God. You know, that doesn't fix suffering. But you said earlier, it gives you. It gives you a purpose through the suffering. And so, yeah, I would start there with someone on the bathroom floor.

[Amber Smith]

I would say I start the book with a letter to the girl or the guy on the bathroom floor. Because like you said, yes, we know God has a plan. We know God works all things for good. But when you're in that deep season of grief, you don't want to hear any of that. You just want your life to go back to the way it was. You want your loved one back, you want cancer gone, addiction to stop, whatever. And so I hope that people can feel met where they are. And I think so often we skip that part of just meeting with people and weeping with them. Like you said, Jesus wept. Meet with them in their suffering. Let them know that we acknowledge their pain and we see it. But also, I don't want them to stay stuck there. I want them to know that there is light and hope and that that bathroom floor moment is not the end of their story. It wasn't for me. In all honesty. It was the beginning of something very beautiful, that God is redeeming all things. And we know that. But I know it's so hard to say that to someone who might have just lost their mom or just buried their baby. But I don't want them to stay stuck in that dark place because that's exactly where the enemy wants you is alone and isolated and doubting the goodness of God since He's done that since the very beginning, since Genesis, just to know that they are seen, they are known, they are loved, they are not alone. And ultimately I want them to walk away from the book wanting to know more about Christ. Not just know him and not just say they believe in him, but believe him and believe His Word.

[Ginger]

Yeah, that's so good.

[Jeremy]

Amazing guys.

[Ginger]

As Ginger and I have thought about, yeah, just our role as Christians, we've often thought of 1 Peter 3:15 and being ready to give a reason for the hope that's within us. And that's so evident in your story.

[Granger Smith]

Amen.

[Ginger]

Thank you guys. Thank you for coming on sharing. I'm excited for people to hear more from you guys because you have such hope and you have such substance with Christ. That's good.

[Granger Smith]

Yeah. Amen. Thank you guys so much.

[Amber Smith]

Thanks for joining us. Thank you.

[Ginger]

Well guys, thanks for hanging out and we will see you next week for the next episode. Have a good day.

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