#2223 - Elon Musk

Summary

Summary of "The Joe Rogan Experience" Episode #2223 featuring Elon Musk

Release Date: November 4, 2024

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1. The Cognitive Benefits of Video Games

Discussion Highlights: Elon Musk and his guest delve into the often-overlooked benefits of playing video games. They emphasize how challenging games can enhance manual dexterity, improve reaction times, and serve as effective stress relievers.

Notable Quotes:

• Elon Musk [00:51]: "If somebody was epic at video games, I'd say like their surgical skills can be very good."
• Guest [02:08]: "Video games require manual dexterity. So it makes sense."

Key Points:

• Playing games on extreme difficulty levels demands full concentration, leading to a calming and mentally restorative effect.
• Studies indicate that surgeons who engage in video gaming make fewer errors and perform tasks more efficiently.
• The discussion extends to other concentration-intensive activities like martial arts and archery, which similarly offer mental clarity and focus.

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2. Elon Musk's Acquisition of Twitter/X

Discussion Highlights: The conversation shifts to Elon Musk's strategic decision to purchase Twitter, now rebranded as X. They explore his motivations, the challenges faced post-acquisition, and the broader implications for free speech and information dissemination.

Notable Quotes:

• Elon Musk [16:06]: "I think it'd be a very good test to see if somebody can't play video games."
• Guest [15:58]: "It wasn't worth that in the first place."

Key Points:

• Musk acquired Twitter to combat what he perceives as unprecedented censorship and narrative control by large entities.
• He discusses the advertiser boycotts orchestrated by left-wing NGOs and how it has impacted Twitter's operations.
• The duo expresses concerns over the potential for increased government interference and the suppression of dissenting voices.

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3. Government Censorship and Misinformation

Discussion Highlights: A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to analyzing the role of government and mainstream media in spreading misinformation. They critique the actions taken against figures like Trump and the influence of organizations like the Center for Countering Digital Hate.

Notable Quotes:

• Guest [26:21]: "The counter to misinformation is better information."
• Elon Musk [39:12]: "Once you lose freedom of speech, you lose democracy."

Key Points:

• Musk and his guest argue that legacy media has become a monolith favoring Democratic narratives, stifling alternative viewpoints.
• They highlight instances where misinformation campaigns have led to wrongful imprisonments and the suppression of factual information.
• The importance of platforms like Community Notes on X is underscored as a means to verify and correct misinformation in real-time.

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4. Political Discourse: Democrats vs. Republicans

Discussion Highlights: The conversation intensifies as they debate the current political climate in the United States. Topics include the portrayal of Trump as a fascist, the integrity of Democratic candidates, and the alleged manipulation of swing states through immigration policies.

Notable Quotes:

• Elon Musk [91:08]: "You and I used to be Democrats."
• Guest [121:14]: "It's so strange that they've painted Trump as a monster."

Key Points:

• The duo criticizes the mainstream media's consistent negative portrayal of Trump, likening it to historical propaganda techniques.
• They discuss the strategic importance of swing states and assert that Democratic policies on immigration are designed to marginalize these crucial regions.
• Concerns are raised about the integrity of the electoral process, suggesting that legislative changes could undermine democracy by manipulating voter demographics.

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5. Gun Rights and the Second Amendment

Discussion Highlights: Elon Musk and his guest touch upon the significance of the Second Amendment in preventing governmental tyranny. They debate gun control measures and advocate for the preservation of personal freedoms through firearm ownership.

Notable Quotes:

• Elon Musk [29:51]: "We need to keep our guns because that's what's going to stop it."
• Guest [40:19]: "It's so crazy to see."

Key Points:

• The importance of the Second Amendment is emphasized as a fundamental safeguard against oppressive government actions.
• They argue that without the right to bear arms, citizens would be vulnerable to authoritarian control.
• The discussion includes anecdotes about the fading morale among police forces and the paradox of protecting citizens while failing to enforce laws effectively.

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6. Government Overreach: Protecting Pets vs. Letting Criminals Roam Free

Discussion Highlights: A poignant segment focuses on instances of perceived government overreach, exemplified by cases where authorities take drastic actions against non-violent individuals while letting violent criminals evade justice.

Notable Quotes:

• Elon Musk [57:02]: "The law is what's going on."
• Guest [77:35]: "They just take someone's pet and kill it."

Key Points:

• The hosts share distressing stories about the government's actions, such as killing a man's pet squirrel while failing to detain violent offenders.
• They critique the inconsistencies in law enforcement priorities, questioning the ethical justifications behind such actions.
• The discussion extends to international examples, highlighting how different countries handle similar issues with varying degrees of severity.

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7. Manufacturing, Trade, and Tariffs

Discussion Highlights: The episode transitions to economic policies, where they analyze the impact of tariffs, the importance of maintaining a robust manufacturing sector, and the challenges posed by global supply chains.

Notable Quotes:

• Elon Musk [140:41]: "Tariffs should be predictable so companies can adjust their supply chain."
• Guest [142:06]: "Manufacturing is super hard and complicated."

Key Points:

• They advocate for thoughtful implementation of tariffs to avoid disrupting existing supply chains and manufacturing efficiencies.
• The importance of fostering domestic manufacturing is highlighted as a means to enhance national security and economic resilience.
• The conversation touches on the economic downturns caused by overregulation and excessive government intervention in industries.

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8. The Future of AI and Robotics

Discussion Highlights: Anticipating future technological advancements, the hosts discuss the potential integration of AI and robotics into daily life, exploring both the benefits and the ethical considerations.

Notable Quotes:

• Guest [146:12]: "Everyone will have their own robot buddy."
• Elon Musk [150:11]: "We need to pare down federal bureaucracy to a sensible level."

Key Points:

• They envision a future where humanoid robots assist individuals in various capacities, enhancing productivity and personal security.
• The conversation includes speculative scenarios where AI-driven robots become commonplace, raising questions about privacy, autonomy, and societal norms.
• They also address the challenges of transitioning to an AI-augmented workforce, emphasizing the need for proactive measures to mitigate potential disruptions.

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9. The Decline of American Democracy and the Importance of Voting

Discussion Highlights: In a concluding segment, Elon Musk and his guest express urgency regarding the integrity of American democracy. They stress the importance of voter participation, particularly among men, to prevent authoritarian shifts and ensure a fair electoral process.

Notable Quotes:

• Elon Musk [157:12]: "Vote like your life depends on it."
• Guest [156:57]: "This is the final chance to preserve democracy."

Key Points:

• The hosts fear that without active voter engagement, particularly from traditionally low-turnout groups like men, democratic institutions may erode.
• They warn of a future where election manipulation becomes rampant, undermining the foundational principles of free and fair elections.
• The discussion serves as a call to action, urging listeners to participate in the electoral process to safeguard their freedoms and the nation's democratic integrity.

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Elon Musk and his guest engage in a candid and extensive conversation covering a wide array of topics, from the cognitive benefits of video games to the future of AI and the preservation of democracy. Their dialogue reflects a deep concern for governmental overreach, media bias, and the preservation of personal freedoms. The conversation is peppered with notable quotes and real-world examples, providing listeners with a comprehensive insight into the hosts' perspectives on contemporary societal issues.

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Note: This summary is based on a provided transcript and aims to encapsulate the key points and discussions of the podcast episode. For a complete understanding, listening to the full episode is recommended.

Transcript

[Elon Musk]

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

[Joe Rogan]

Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[Elon Musk]

But if you want to sort of see like a vision of the future, it's like basically the, like the top 20 and even the top hundred is like totally dominated by China.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, this is like China and a little bit of Korea and Taiwan.

[Joe Rogan]

So are you in the top 20 in the world or top 20. Wow. In Diablo.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you wanna tell everybody your handle? No, no, don't tell them, don't tell them. It's not worth it.

[Elon Musk]

Well, they actually listed me with my actual name in the list.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, did they really? Oh, interesting.

[Elon Musk]

But yeah, there's only two Americans in the top 20. The rest, almost everyone is from Asia.

[Joe Rogan]

Otherwise we were talking about something that I think is a really good. Because people always think that video games are frivolous. But what you were saying, I think that's really important is it's so difficult that it requires you to only think about that and it can relieve stress, it can take out the rest of the world because it's so hard. You can only think about that.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, I mean if I play a video game on extreme difficulty, then I have to concentrate fully on the game. And it has a calming effect. Yeah, it sort of chills down. And I mean you mentioned, I think many people like if you play martial arts or you play pool, like something that forces you. It's like, I think any, anything that forces you to concentrate fully actually has a, has a calming effect. I find it just sort of like kind of a mental restoring effect. Yeah, it's like, it's good.

[Joe Rogan]

Jiu jitsu is like that. Archery's like that as well. Like when you're shooting a bow, you have to. There's so many moving things and you're trying, you have to think only of it. And it cleans the mind.

[Elon Musk]

It cleans the mind. Yeah, exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

I was reading this study about surgeons where they found that surgeons who regularly play video games make less errors.

[Elon Musk]

Well, video games require manual dexterity. So it makes sense.

[Joe Rogan]

Completely makes sense.

[Elon Musk]

Actually. If somebody was like epic at video games, I'd say like their surgical skills can be very good. Because in order to be good at video games, any kind of fast reaction video games, look at this.

[Joe Rogan]

32% fewer errors, 24% faster and scored 26% better overall than their non player colleagues.

[Elon Musk]

Oh, I believe that that's incredible.

[Joe Rogan]

Like that you should be required in medical school to play video games.

[Elon Musk]

Don't you think? If somebody's like top, a top ranked video game player and they say they're a surgeon. I'd be like plus, plus one, plus two type of thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, top rank for sure. But this isn't even top rank. This is just people who play.

[Elon Musk]

Well, Your manual dexterity has to be extremely high. So you're looking at things on a screen, you're reacting and sometimes you've got like 10 milliseconds to react.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Elon Musk]

And so if somebody's got incredible reaction times, manual dexterity, they're obviously going to be a good surgeon.

[Joe Rogan]

Imagine if there was a course that you could take. That course would promote you would be 26% better.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Everyone would have to take that course.

[Elon Musk]

Sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Why would you want a surgeon that's less prepared? You would say, hey, Bob, did you take this course? You didn't take this course. Don't you understand? This course makes you 26% better. Sure, you would have to take it. Everyone should have to play video games if you want to be a surgeon.

[Elon Musk]

Well, I think it'd be, certainly would be a very good test to see if somebody can't play video games. Well, like that means because you got to move both hands simultaneously, you better react to something very fast than on screen. So. And if your keystrokes or your mouse clicks or whatever are wrong, then you lose the game.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Elon Musk]

So if somebody has a good rank in video games, I would say that their manual necessarily, their manual dexterity must be extremely good.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's so their fine motor skills.

[Elon Musk]

Have to be excellent.

[Joe Rogan]

If you think about like Starcraft or any game like Quake, any game where a lot of people are playing to rise to the top, you have to be exceptional, period. As a human being, there has to be something exceptional about you.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. Actually for interesting Quake, way back in the day, I was one of the world's best Quake players.

[Joe Rogan]

I know, we talked about this. Yeah, yeah, I loved Quake.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, yeah. My final semester in college, I probably put more time into Quake than all my college classes.

[Joe Rogan]

When I was on news radio. All of the writers were super nerds. They were very, very fun guys. And they had a LAN set up at the studio where they all played Quake. I had never played video games and I would go in with the writers, just kind of hang out with them. We'd get silly and then we'd all start playing video games and playing Quake against each other. And I got addicted, like hardcore. I got a T1 line installed in my house. Yeah, I went hardcore.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, exactly. Checking how many milliseconds of latency.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah. I was, I was fully addicted. I was making my own computers. I was going to Fry's hardware and buying motherboards and putting everything together and, you know, it was too much of a time suck though. I'm an obsessive person. I can't get involved. Like, I can't play golf.

[Elon Musk]

No, Golf is too slow for me. I mean, a lot of people find golf good. And I mean, I guess if you think of it like it's. I guess if you're saying you're going to walk outdoors with friends and occasionally hit a ball then. And you just as an outdoor walk, then that's cool and does require concentration. We're hitting the ball, but it's too slow for me.

[Joe Rogan]

Nothing compares to video games in terms of like the amount of feedback you get. Like the sensory overload you get when you're looking at a large, high resolution screen. You have a SAS computer, you have headphones on that you're hearing sounds from here and sounds behind you and rockets are flying by you. There's nothing like that. But I think golf still is. Like, Jamie will tell you. Jamie's an addict. He's a golf nut. It's super addictive and it takes like eight hours a day.

[Elon Musk]

Yes. Once you get into golf, I think, I guess any sport, it gets super addictive. So. But. But for me, the intent, the intensity of video games is heartbeat.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, it's. And the people dismiss it because they think it's just a waste of time. But we're showing like real world benefits. So people playing video games.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

If you want to be a drone operator, it's the only game in town.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Joe Rogan]

Really good at video games.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, for sure. So in fact, I can actually tell like what my mental acuity is if I just play. If I play a very hard video game. So if I'm trying to sort of get like an extremely good clear time in Diablo or something like that, or a first person shooter, whatever the case may be. Like, if I can tell that I'm tired or my brain's not working as well as it should. It's like a mental calibration. You can tell immediately how good is your mental state.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right.

[Elon Musk]

And you know, so it's like if you're trying to play really well, if you play late at night and you're tired, you just play badly.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Elon Musk]

And you can say, okay, you may think that your brain is working well, but it isn't because you play the video game and you're like, you suck. So okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You're putting it under stress. Yeah. You're really stress testing it.

[Elon Musk]

You stress test it and. Because like, sometimes, like, oh, I think I'm fine, but then play the game. Like, okay, I'm not. I might. I'm like 10% below what I should be.

[Joe Rogan]

That's how I feel about workouts for sure. Like, that's how I knew I had Covid, or I knew everyone might family had Covid. And I was trying to not get Covid. And so I was working out. I was like, something's up. Like, I felt fine normally, but then during exercise I was like, okay, I can tell there's something wrong here, so let's just back off, relax. Yeah, yeah. It's like people who don't stress test their mind, they think they're operating on the same level all the time. Like sometimes I come in here and I can't form a fucking sentence. And I don't know what it is. It's like, what is going on?

[Elon Musk]

So it's just sleep. Like, what sleep wasn't that good or something?

[Joe Rogan]

Like, yeah, something like that. Or I'm too busy and it's just. It's not. The words aren't coming out. Like, I know how to talk. I talk professionally and I can't fucking talk. It's like.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, sleep is massive. I mean, huge. Yeah. So if I can tell me, did I get a good night's sleep or not if I just play like video game for like five minutes?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

I'm like, okay, my sleep wasn't that good because my. You know, and sometimes they don't. Your brain will recover through the day and it's like, okay, like an hour or two after waking up. It's better. Yeah. Because your brain does kind of recover from bad nights of sleep a little bit.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you know what really helps creatine, apparently.

[Elon Musk]

Does it?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Creatine is actually a nootropic, believe it or not. There's a lot of, like, benefits of creatine that are really weird.

[Elon Musk]

Are there any downsides?

[Joe Rogan]

No, no. It's a natural part of food. Yeah. Yeah. Especially women. For women, apparently, especially postmenopausal women, it's very beneficial. Okay. But there's a lot of, like, cognitive benefits. And one of the big ones that they found recently is performance when sleep deprived. Mental performance when sleep deprived increases pretty measurably when you supplement with creatine.

[Elon Musk]

Is creatine naturally occurring in, like, steak or.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's like naturally occurring in meat, I think. I think that's where it's coming from. I think it's primarily an animal based thing. Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

But like I did switch to like steak and eggs for breakfast and I found that's like a power up.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Well we're all overrun with carbohydrates.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, yeah, totally.

[Joe Rogan]

And you just like carbohydrates make this big crash. The rise and the crash rise and the crash. You stay flat. If you eat like a primarily high protein, high fat diet.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Your body runs off ketosis essentially.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, so I just have like steak and eggs, no bread or anything. Yeah, it's great actually. It's a power up.

[Joe Rogan]

I'd say people dismiss this whole carnivore diet thing because in our heads there's a lot of propagandists that put this thing out there that animal agriculture is the number one contributor to global warming.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, it's rubbish. It's true bullshit.

[Joe Rogan]

It's hot bullshit.

[Elon Musk]

It doesn't matter.

[Joe Rogan]

Not only is it hot bullshit, but the real problem is factory farming. Regenerative farming is carbon neutral.

[Elon Musk]

If it doesn't sequester carbon, the animals are not going to make any difference to global warming. None. No, it's worse shit, nothing.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you think that that's just propaganda because of people that have a vested interest in like plant based meat products and things along those lines? Green energy?

[Elon Musk]

I think it's part of it. You know you're generally going to get people pushing to avoid meat. Like some people just, you know, maybe they've got a financial interest, maybe they're just like vegetarians or vegans or whatever. Ideological, ideological reasons. But it's not going to make any difference to global warming or the CO2 concentration atmosphere really if people eat pure steaks, it doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. Irrelevant. I want to be super clear about that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, will not matter.

[Elon Musk]

You will not even be able to measure it. Okay. That's how irrelevant it is, isn't it.

[Joe Rogan]

Funny that that's not unmeasurable. Irrelevant. That's a heretic. Speaking like that's crazy talk now nowadays it's like you have to say that we have to eat less meat, that meat is bad.

[Elon Musk]

Totally. As much meat as you want. It's not going to make a difference.

[Joe Rogan]

Sing it, sing it. Tell the world.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, absolutely. And if somebody says it does make a difference, I'm like, how will you measure it? And if you can't even measure it, then it's bullshit.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Elon Musk]

Literally I won't be able to measure it.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, there's so much bullshit out today.

[Elon Musk]

First of all, in all directions.

[Joe Rogan]

Thank you so much for buying Twitter.

[Elon Musk]

You're welcome.

[Joe Rogan]

Thank you so much. I'm not exaggerating when I think you changed the course of history. I really do. I really think you made a fork in the road. We were headed down a path of censorship and of control of narratives that is unprecedented. Forget about what they were able to do back when they had newspapers and the media under control, what they were doing with social media by suppressing information, and when you had a combined government effort, like what they were doing with the laptop story. We have 51 former intelligence agents saying that this is Russian disinformation. Take it offline. And Twitter complied. If you didn't buy that, we wouldn't have known that. We had no idea.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly. The reason I bought it was because I'm pretty attuned since I was the most interacted with user on Twitter before the acquisition, before the acquisitions, I had more interactions than like, there's some accounts like Obama and whatever had higher follower accounts, but I had the most number of interactions of any account in the system. So I was very attuned to, like, if they saw change, if they change the system, I can tell immediately. And I'm like, something weird is going on here. You know, like, there's like, I just got increasingly uneasy and obviously when they de platform to setting president, you know, don't deplatformed Trump. That was just insane. And the things he was posting. He was posting things that he was posting good things. He was saying, hey, do not riot, don't do any destruction of property. Please stay calm. That's the kind of stuff he was posting. And you're like, what's wrong with that? And then some people said, oh, that's some sort of dog whistle. He means the opposite. I'm like, okay, so we'll give you Trump's account now. You post what you think you should post because he can post nothing. He can ask people to calm down. Like, what? It was insane. Like, it didn't make any sense.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's completely illogical when you say it's dog whistling to tell his followers to not be violent. That's crazy.

[Elon Musk]

And crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Elon Musk]

Crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Don't you think they will listen to him? Yeah, isn't that the whole point? They listened to him and created violence in the first place. That's what you think. That's what you're accusing him of.

[Elon Musk]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And then there's the fact that we know that there was agents in the Crowd that were agent provocateurs that were encouraging people to do illegal shit. Yes, we know that for a fact. This is not. That was always the big Alex Jones type tinfoil hat conspiracy theory, because Alex proposed that back at the World Trade Organization protests, I believe we're in Seattle in the 90s, and they sent in agent provocateurs, started smashing things, lighting things on fire. Now all of a sudden, a peaceful protest is no longer peaceful. They move in, the cops, they shut everything down. They had it set up where it was a no protest zone where you couldn't even have a pin that had the WTO with a red line through it. They wouldn't let you go in through to go to work. So you couldn't protest. You couldn't exercise your First Amendment rights. You couldn't even like have a peaceful protest. A fucking sticker on your car. You couldn't have that. It's crazy.

[Elon Musk]

It's crazy. So, no, I think we're very much at a fork in the road, in destiny. And so, I mean, the reason I did the Twitter acquisition was it's like, man, if I don't do this, I think we're screwed is the issue.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, if you didn't do it, no one else was going to do it because it wasn't a financial winner. It was kind of a crazy move.

[Elon Musk]

It's a crazy move. I mean, the thing was way overpriced and, you know, like, long term, I think we can ultimately make it a win for investors, but boy, this is a hard way to make a living.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, there's also a concerted effort to suppress it. There's a concerted effort with the advertisers.

[Elon Musk]

Well, we had. I still have a massive advertiser boycott that was organized by a bunch of left wing NGOs. Like, you know, and you always want. And I should have brought my I have a hat make Orwell fiction again.

[Joe Rogan]

I've seen that hat.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, I should have bought my make all fiction hat. But yeah, I mean, it's just totally, totally nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

So if you didn't do it, no one would have. And here's the hilarious narrative that I keep hearing from idiots. Elon's a bad businessman. Twitter is worth 400% less than when he bought it. No, it wasn't worth that in the first place.

[Elon Musk]

It wasn't worth that in the first place.

[Joe Rogan]

It wasn't worth 44 billion doll. You fucking morons. Like, wrong. And also, you're not taking into account the advertiser boycott.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

That's Total bullshit.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, exactly. So there are these organizations, you can tell, there's like, they're like when they have an Orwellian name. So the center for Countering Digital Hate is a total scam organization because they're like the Ministry of Truth in Orwell. They're a censorship organization.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

And they pushed the advertisers to boycott. So we still have like some of the boycott is starting to lift and I think if Trump wins, we'll see, you know, probably most of the boycott lift, but if Kamala wins, we'll see that boycott get stronger and they'll friggin shut down. There's no way that the sort of Kamala public regime would allow X to exist.

[Joe Rogan]

You really think that they'll be able to shut it down though? Is there a pathway to that?

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

What would they do?

[Elon Musk]

Well, I mean they can just, they can sic the DOJ on, you know, and say like, you know, they've had this whole thing about like hate speech, misinformation, whatever, except that they're the ones pushing the misinformation. But that doesn't stop them from filing massive lawsuits and using the DOJ. I mean like the DOJ has been attacking SpaceX, for example, for not hiring asylum seekers, even though it is legal for SpaceX to hire anyone who is not a permanent resident of the U.S. so we're damned if we do and downed if we don't. There's just an example of what DOJ can do.

[Joe Rogan]

So it's illegal to hire someone who's not American American citizen.

[Elon Musk]

SpaceX is considered an advanced weapons technology, so it's covered by international traffic and arms regulations because we make rocket technology that can be used against the United States. It's like if North Korea or Iran got SpaceX rocket technology, they could use that to launch nukes at America, right? That would be bad.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that'd be really bad.

[Elon Musk]

That would be really bad. So since we are in like the most extreme category of weapons technology at SpaceX, under US ITAR law, it is illegal for us to hire anyone who's not a permanent resident because the presumption is that if they're not a permanent resident, they're going to return to their home country and take the rocket technology with them. So that's. So it's illegal for us to hire anyone who's not either has not a per. They can have a green card or be a citizen, they just have to be a permanent resident of the United States. Then there's another law that says if you discriminate against asylum seekers. That's also. You're also breaking the law. So they just. So they. The doj. DOJ can only do a small number of big lawsuits every year. Launched a giant lawsuit against SpaceX saying that SpaceX discriminated against asylum seekers. And we're like, but we're like, but it's illegal for us to hire anyone who's not a permanent resident. So we're in this. Like, this is what I mean. It's like the Orwell situation is getting insane. Like, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't, so you're damned.

[Joe Rogan]

Can you imagine history looking back at when you watch the robot arms catch the rocket and you realize, like, this is like one of the greatest accomplishments in the history of aerospace. Like, it is one of the wildest accomplishments. When you watch that thing come and you see all those people cheering and it catches it perfectly. Like, holy shit. Imagine how history is going to look back at the DOJ going after that company.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

How insane it is.

[Elon Musk]

Big lawsuit with an army of lawyers. Like, this was not like some minor thing.

[Joe Rogan]

But it doesn't even make any sense logically. How could it even get brought to court if it's illegal?

[Elon Musk]

Exactly. So that's what I mean. Basically, if the government wants to go after you, they'll just find a reason. It's like that famous quote from Beria, Stalin's chief torturer, the head of Stalin's secret police, and he's like, chief torture, truly evil human being. Like this guy Beria, one of his famous quotes was, show me the man and I'll show you the crime.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Elon Musk]

They just, they just, they, like, they decide that you're the target and then they figure out the crime afterwards. That's the issue. They decided SpaceX was the target. They just figured out the crime afterwards.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is so crazy because that's exactly what they're saying Trump is going to do if he gets into office.

[Elon Musk]

They're doing all the things that they accuse Trump of doing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Openly.

[Elon Musk]

Openly, Yeah. I mean, the sheer number of hoaxes that the Democratic Party is pushing over and over again, and it's like, look, I understand, like politicians are going to exaggerate, they're going to misspeak and they'll tell occasional untruths, whatever. That's how it is in politics. But when you have deliberate, concerted, repeated pushing of hoaxes, you're like, wait a second. Like, come on, man, this is too, this is too far.

[Joe Rogan]

And you're supposed to be the good guys.

[Elon Musk]

You're supposed. And you claim to be the good guys. I'm like, exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

You're supposed to be the progressives.

[Elon Musk]

Yes. The Dems are like, oh, we're the good guys. We're the honest people. No, no, hang on. You can't claim to be the good guys. You can't claim to be the honest people if you're deliberately pushing hoaxes that have been debunked thoroughly.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

Or like, even Snopes, which is a liberal thing, says it's bogus.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

Like the fine people hoax.

[Joe Rogan]

Obama just said that on stage.

[Elon Musk]

Just said that.

[Joe Rogan]

I was like, what the flying fuck? He doesn't give a fuck. He doesn't give a fuck. They're just.

[Elon Musk]

They're going for goddamn fucking lie.

[Joe Rogan]

Flat out lie.

[Elon Musk]

Flat out fucking lie.

[Joe Rogan]

How about the other one where Kamala's campaign used what Trump was saying about protecting women and from illegal immigrants.

[Elon Musk]

Thank you.

[Joe Rogan]

Remember that? What he was saying is, if the women like it or not, I'm gonna do it.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

When he was saying that, they were trying to say that he was taking away women's right to choose whether women like it or not. Like, that's not what he was saying.

[Elon Musk]

Absolutely.

[Joe Rogan]

He was literally talking about protecting them from dangerous people that are sneaking in through the border.

[Elon Musk]

Yes, exactly. They'll take, like, not even a full sentence, like a half a sentence from first, and then they'll push it on every ad, every speaking event, every.

[Joe Rogan]

And it gets repeated on the news.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

This is what's crazy. They'll talk about it on these new shows, quote. New shows.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, a recent one that came up, which had a lot of people. Because a lot of people reached out to me was like, they're like, trump says he wants to execute Liz Cheney. I'm like, that is utter bullshit.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not what he said at all.

[Elon Musk]

It's not what he said at all. He said was like, what he's saying is that, look, if Liz Cheney actually had to fight at the front lines, she'd think twice about going to war.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Elon Musk]

Like, it's easy to. It's easy to go to war. It's easy to be a warmonger if you don't have to risk dying at the front lines. Basically. It's fucked up. If people are having fancy dinners in Washington, D.C. while people are being slaughtered in trenches. It's like, you're not feeling the pain.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Elon Musk]

You're not taking the risk. It's someone else dying that's cruel. And Lacking in empathy. And all Trump was saying was that it's like Liz Cheney would be much. Liz Cheney would be much less of a warmonger because she's a huge warmonger, just like her dad. If she actually had to go to the front lines and fight herself.

[Joe Rogan]

And meanwhile, they're saying that he's saying she should be shot.

[Elon Musk]

Yes. Which is a total lie. But I had, like, tons of people call me this weekend saying Trump says he's going to put Liz trainee in a firing squad. I'm like, that is an outrageous lie. And legacy media ran with that lie big time.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It's crazy. It's just wild to see. And if it wasn't for Twitter or X now, I don't think we would know about all this stuff. I think it would be very difficult for you. I think YouTube throttled. They did something weird. They won't say what they did, but they did something weird. With the Trump interview that I did. Where you couldn't find it.

[Elon Musk]

It doesn't make sense.

[Joe Rogan]

It made no sense.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, it was like the biggest interview on earth.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

And you can't find it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Not only that, it was like trending.

[Elon Musk]

Bullshit.

[Joe Rogan]

It wasn't trending.

[Elon Musk]

It wasn't ending.

[Joe Rogan]

Wasn't trending.

[Elon Musk]

You're like. Like, there's just no excuse for that, man.

[Joe Rogan]

No excuse.

[Elon Musk]

There's no excuse.

[Joe Rogan]

It was getting a million views. One point. Was it 1.4 an hour? At 1.5? 1.5 an hour.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And it wasn't trending.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like.

[Elon Musk]

And it's like. It's like your channel is a known channel. It's not. It's not like it was started yesterday. It's like.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

It's like, this is a high trust. Yours is a high trust channel. It's like you're not trying to sell scam crypto coins.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, thank God we put it on X as well, because I think just with your account and my account alone, it's like 70 million views.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Well, it's like you can't hide things anymore because of you. And if it wasn't for you, I think they would have had total control of social media by now. They banned so many accounts during the pandemic, so many dissenting scientists and doctors and physicians. They banned so many conspiracy theorists, so many people that colored outside the lines. They would have done that everywhere, and it probably would have. I think even what's going on at Facebook, they're being more lenient. You know, you hear Zuckerberg talking about taking a more libertarian stance. That's entirely reaction to the way Twitter has kind of moved the watermark.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly. So as soon as any company steps out of line and is willing to actually have the truth debated on their platform, it forces the other platforms to allow things to be more truthful, to not censor, because their censorship becomes glaringly obvious. Yes. And you know, the best thing I found for as a rebuttal, like, if somebody. If there's a hoax, is just go to the source material. You know, if somebody thinks, you know, Trump said that we should put Liz Cheney in a firing squad, I'm like, let me send you a link to X so you can watch his video. That's the best way. Yes. Don't take my opinion for it. Don't take anyone's opinion for it. Go to the source material.

[Joe Rogan]

And Community Notes.

[Elon Musk]

Yes. And Community Notes.

[Joe Rogan]

Community Notes is the best.

[Elon Musk]

It's awesome.

[Joe Rogan]

It's incredible because everybody gets checked.

[Elon Musk]

Yes. Including me.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

And with Community Notes, all the software is open source and all the data is open source, so you can recreate any given note independently.

[Joe Rogan]

That's amazing.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's how it's been. That's how it should be.

[Elon Musk]

Total, absolute transparency in every way. You know, sometimes I get asked like, oh, Yoland, can you remove a note? You know, mostly by the left, but sometimes by the right, I'm like, I don't even remove. Remove notes on my own account. Nothing. And by the way, everything is totally open. So if I did that, it would stick out like a sore thumb immediately. Like, it's not gonna be subtle.

[Joe Rogan]

That is the best counter to misinformation.

[Elon Musk]

Yes, absolutely.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, let everybody look at it and say, okay, here's what the actual facts say.

[Elon Musk]

Yes, exactly. The counter to misinformation is better information.

[Joe Rogan]

Not just that, but having it checked in real time by the community. So you have millions of people that can go over it and debate whether or not this is true or that's true.

[Elon Musk]

Yes. And like I said, the best way to understand the truth of things is don't take anyone's opinion for it. Look at the source material. So it's like, look at what someone actually said. Look at what someone actually did. Look at the real videos of the situation, and then you can actually. You'll know what's real.

[Joe Rogan]

So as of today, when you were literally on your way here, you sent me this text saying that they're trying to lock you up in jail in Pennsylvania. Tell me what the fuck is happening.

[Elon Musk]

Well, there's the classic Sort of Soros da situation. So we're making a lot of progress in Pennsylvania. So I've given a whole bunch of talks throughout the state because Pennsylvania's the linchpin in this election. You know, whoever wins Pennsylvania wins the election. So I've been giving. I spent three years in Pennsylvania. I went to college in Philadelphia. So it's not like I'm not a total stranger to the state. You know, I spent three years there. And we've organized this petition in support of the Constitution, which I think is a good thing, and specifically asking people to. And we wanted this to be like registered voters in swing states. Like, basically we want to send a message to the politicians to say that the people care about the Constitution because there have been all these attacks on the Constitution, especially on the Democrat side. They've been repeatedly saying that the First Amendment is an obstacle. And they're claiming the First Amendment is enabling disinformation, misinformation. And I'm like, yo, there's a reason for the First Amendment, like freedom of speech. The reason the founders of the country put the freedom of speech there is because they came from countries where if you spoke your mind, you would get shot or imprisoned. That's why the First Amendment exists. And the Second Amendment is there to stop the tyranny of government. The Second Amendment, the right to bear arms, is there to protect freedom of speech. You know, I've had these debates, especially with people in LA because they want to take everyone's guns away. And I'm like, yo, can you guarantee me that the government that we will never have a tyrannical government in the United States? Can you make that guarantee? They're like, well, nobody can make that guarantee. I'm like, then we need to keep our guns because that's what's going to stop it.

[Joe Rogan]

That sounds crazy for people to hear because they think about gun violence and gun problems and gun this and gun that. But that's the reality of the world that we live in, is that tyranny is possible and it exists other places and it's slowly existing. It's slowly rearing its head. In the uk, you're seeing, I think the number of people that have been arrested for just social media posts is bananas. It's in the thousands.

[Elon Musk]

Yes. Several thousand people have been. Have been given prison sentences, sentences in the UK for social media posts that. Where there was no explicit link to actual violence, but they just said it encouraged violence. Like, well, did anyone actually do anything as a result of that media post? Well, no, but they just, and then they have a prison overcrowding situation in the uk so they quite literally releasing convicted pedophiles and putting people in jail for Facebook posts. There's an actual thing happening in Britain.

[Joe Rogan]

That is so wild.

[Elon Musk]

Like it's, you're like it's so wild.

[Joe Rogan]

That people can't see what the fuck.

[Elon Musk]

You know, is going on and what's insane to me. Make or fiction again?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you know, but it's all being encouraged by the left. Ketanji, Brown, Jackson, John Kerry.

[Elon Musk]

John Kerry was one of the people who said that. He's on camera like a few weeks ago saying that the first amendment is an obstacle to fighting misinformation.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's crazy. That's such a crazy thing to say. When you have a solution in Community Notes, you have a solution in something that could clear everything up. Any confusion within a day or two.

[Elon Musk]

And even without a community note, you can reply to a post with evidence that shows that the post is wrong. You don't even need Community notes. I mean Community notes is helpful because it sticks to the original note, but in the replies you can say here's why you're wrong, here are the reasons and here's the evidence.

[Joe Rogan]

The argument is that people are too unsophisticated, that they're not going to research these things. They're going to be a victim of misinformation. So they're going to read something that's incorrect, they're going to run with it, people are going to die, people are going to, we're going to ruin the world because people believed in misinformation. It's a stupid argument.

[Elon Musk]

It's a stupid argument because it's an.

[Joe Rogan]

Argument that they're too dumb to know what's right or wrong. If you know because you're saying it's misinformation, why do you think that you're smarter than everybody who reads that?

[Elon Musk]

Exactly. And obviously anyone on the X system knows that things are posted and then there are replies and there are rebuttals and it's immediately corrected. But where are the corrections for the legacy media?

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Elon Musk]

You know when, if you know some broadcast media, they say false things all the time, but it's a one way street. There's no rebuttal, there's no counter.

[Joe Rogan]

Right? Right. Who's apologized for being incorrect? About what? Did Rachel Maddow ever apologize for telling everybody that if you get the COVID vaccine, you're never going to get Covid? The virus stops with you?

[Elon Musk]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

Never, Never.

[Elon Musk]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

One ever. It's just, it was not true at the time. There was no evidence to support it at the time. It's pure propaganda. And she said it. The Russiagate hoax. For three fucking years. They said that he was Putin's toy and that Putin had him compromised. The Steele dossier.

[Elon Musk]

Steele dossier was completely fabricated by a lawyer at Perkins Coy who was paid by the Clinton campaign. Literally Crazy. And still people think the Russia hoax.

[Joe Rogan]

Is real and there's no repercussions. There's no one how to apologize. Hillary Clinton never came out and apologized for that and people still listen to her. The whole thing is crazy. And it's all coming from the left, which, growing up as a person who was in the left my whole life, it doesn't make any fucking sense.

[Elon Musk]

Same. I mean, I even. I was on the left until like three years ago. I mean, it's not the left anymore. It's not the left anymore. It's just like, I think we obviously want, I mean, I believe we want freedom, we want to maximize personal liberty. I think we want to be kind to people, we want to have empathy. But it's very important to have personal freedom and a merit based society. And the left wants to oppress your freedoms, especially freedom of speech. And they want to, they want to have a non merit based society, you know, with race based and sex based preferences. And it's like, well, wait a second. No, we just want people to succeed based on their skills and their hard work.

[Joe Rogan]

And if they don't want people to express themselves about particular issues, then they're not doing the will of the people. And if they're trying to suppress people's ability to communicate, they're only doing that because they want to do things that people don't want them to do.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

And they want to silence opposition. That's all it is. And the fact that people can't see that and they want to call Trump a fascist, the whole thing is through the looking glass.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, it's like one hoax after another that they're perpetrating against Trump. I mean, like they try to call the rally at Madison Square Gardens like a Nazi rally. I'm like, yo, there was like literally an Israeli flag in the audience. I think like a quarter of the speakers were Jewish. Like, there was like, there were people of every race, color, creed, religion at that rally. Like, tell me what about that is Nazi?

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Elon Musk]

And yet it was portrayed as a Nazi rally.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, msnbc, they literally showed video of the Nazi rally from the 1930s and then compared it to the Trump rally. Now ignoring the fact that fucking Jimmy Carter spoke there.

[Elon Musk]

There have been dozens of political rallies at Madison Square Gardens. Dozens. On the Democrat side, people on X were like, and here's. Exactly, here's Jimmy Carter and here's Bill Clinton and here's. Wait a second. Actually, it looks like every presidential candidate has done a. On the Democrat side, has done a rally at Madison Square Gardens. Are they Nazis too?

[Joe Rogan]

But what they're doing is they're preying on low information voters who aren't engaged actively on social media, who don't have the time to look through everything.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

Like people are living. If people are just on looking at legacy mainstream media, then they have a totally different worldview than if they're on X and seeing the actual flow of argument and the actual evidence.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, what was the pushback like, what happened when you guys released the Twitter files? Because I think the Twitter files is probably one of the most important things in this age of information for understanding the influence that government has on social media and on discourse. Because when we found out that that was the case, that the government was actually asking Twitter to remove posts that were factual all the time, they did the same thing to Facebook. They had them throttle pieces of one of Tucker Carlson's show. They suppressed the views by 50% of factual information.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, no, there was massive government interference in Twitter. But like Twitter welcomed it. That's important to all. Twitter welcomed it. I mean, all Twitter was controlled by far left activists.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

So. And they welcomed the government interference. They got paid by the government for it.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy. They got paid for their time, correct?

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, they got paid millions of dollars for suppressing information.

[Joe Rogan]

So it's like bill and a bunch of.

[Elon Musk]

It was like flat out illegal. Like the FBI had this, like this sort of magic portal into the Twitter system, but all of the communication in this portal was auto deleted after two weeks, which breaks federal FOIA laws. So we don't even know what was said because it was all deleted after two weeks.

[Joe Rogan]

That's insane. Yeah, that's so crazy. It's so crazy that people thought that was okay.

[Elon Musk]

It's not super not okay.

[Joe Rogan]

No, it's super not okay. It's unconstitutional and no one would want that. No one would want the government to have that kind of access.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

And what was the blowback like when all that stuff got released? Like you had to anticipate that there was going to be problems when you released that. Like, what was what happened?

[Elon Musk]

Well, we got a lot of. We did lose a lot of advertising dollars and.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is crazy because it's essentially like one of the most important forms of journalism is exposing government corruption.

[Elon Musk]

Yes. I mean, this is the weird thing. It's like the left used to be big on exposing government corruption, but once they control the government, they no longer want to expose the government corruption.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. They want to pretend that the left wing government's incapable of corruption because we're on the good side.

[Elon Musk]

I think it may be just like whoever's in power kind of doesn't want the other side hurt, because as you pointed out, the left, historically, up until, I don't know, maybe even 10 years ago or something like that, was the free speech party, and now it's the anti free speech party. And they use words like, oh, well, we have to be against hate speech and misinformation, disinformation. But these are propaganda words. You know, it's like, well, who's defining hate speech? Who's defining misinformation? The government. Do you really trust the government to make definition? The whole point of the. Of the first amendment is like, do not trust the government.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, especially when they're wrong and there's no repercussions.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Like with the whole lab leak theory, if you could, you would get kicked off of YouTube if you even presented this argument that, hey, maybe that coronavirus lab where they're doing work on the exact same virus that got released.

[Elon Musk]

Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

Hey, maybe that's where it came from, since that's where the virus started. What do you think, guys?

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Did it kick you right off of YouTube?

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. Yes, exactly. It's like, do you think maybe it could have come from a place called the Novel Coronavirus Research Institute?

[Joe Rogan]

Like that Jon Stewart bit that he did on Colbert. That was amazing.

[Elon Musk]

What does it say on the door again? Can I see your business card? Card?

[Joe Rogan]

And to see Colbert, like, resisting it with every fiber of his, like, what's.

[Elon Musk]

Going to happen to us?

[Joe Rogan]

He was totally blocking the bit to the point where Jon Stewart got off his chair and started walking around trying to take control. Yeah, good on John.

[Elon Musk]

And then the left tried to cancel John Stewart, of course. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Meanwhile, he was right.

[Elon Musk]

He's right.

[Joe Rogan]

And no apologies. No apologies. Yeah. And you know, the whole Fauci thing, like, any criticism of Fauci, it's like.

[Elon Musk]

Anti freaking demon if you ask me.

[Joe Rogan]

If you read RFK's book, the real Anthony Fauci, if that's correct, if the facts are in there, that's true. It's all referenced. You could find the sources. And on top of it, he's never been sued for that book, which doesn't make any sense. If he just made a bunch of lies up, he would get sued.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

So the guy's a monster.

[Elon Musk]

I think so.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I think so too.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I think like just looking at the lies that he told, the way he tried to define gain of function research to Rand Paul.

[Elon Musk]

I think maybe a lot of people out there don't realize Fauci funded the bioweapons research that was going on in Wuhan. And he bank shot it off. Like he can't send the money directly to China, so he just bank shot it off. Ecohealth, this is like fake nonprofit in the US and they sent it to.

[Joe Rogan]

Wuhan and Obama put the skids on that. He stopped that in 2014.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, so to give throw Obama, give some credit, he actually was like looking at this and say, hey, this is crazy and we need. And he. So he actually did stop the like the so called gain of function, again, a propaganda word. Because what is the function they're talking about? Death. Right, Right. So if you actually use the right word, this is gain of function is death maximization.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Elon Musk]

Then you're like, oh, hey guys, should we fund bioweapon research into death maximization? Because that's what gain of function means. Yeah, it means that's the function.

[Joe Rogan]

Making a disease so that people can get it, give it to people. And by the way, what's that function again?

[Elon Musk]

Oh, the function is death. Okay, so just call it a death maximizing virus if you're doing research on that.

[Joe Rogan]

And the idea behind this research is so that we can cure these things. How come you don't have a fucking cure?

[Elon Musk]

Start with a cure. Cure first, disease second.

[Joe Rogan]

It doesn't make any sense. Like you guys had no strategy for dealing with it if it got out. And so you have to like make up this, this new vaccine in like record time. Operation warp speed. Release it to the people with very little testing. Fucking crazy.

[Elon Musk]

It was crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

The whole thing's crazy. And went along with it.

[Elon Musk]

Looney Tunes next level.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's the psyop was fascinating to watch people step in line.

[Elon Musk]

It's like one of the biggest ops of all time.

[Joe Rogan]

Of all time. Of all time. And everybody got in line. And when you take it back to when pharmaceutical drug companies were able to advertise on media in the 1990s, that changed everything. We're one of two countries in the whole world that allows this and because of that, because we don't have socialized medicine. It's a complete profit scam. And they went hard claiming all sorts of things that were never researched. All sorts of things are not supported by data. Like the fact that it would stop transmission, the fact that it would stop infection, the fact that it was safe for pregnant women, the fact that it was safe for children. All of its bullshit.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

And they pushed it on the whole world. And if you didn't say that at a cocktail party, you were a pariah.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

And you were an anti vaxxer.

[Elon Musk]

It was totally psycho.

[Joe Rogan]

It was like being a Holocaust denier. You got kicked out of polite society.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Fucking bananas.

[Elon Musk]

And I should say, like I'm actually generally pro vaccine overall. You know, I think we should look at these things. But that, but I believe in the scientific method. So you never blanket accept anything, you never blanket. Except that any given medication or any given treatment is 100% good. You should always view it with some skepticism.

[Joe Rogan]

Especially when you're getting the data from pharmaceutical drug companies that have a long history of criminal, conducted.

[Elon Musk]

Yes, they've got a vested interest in the research. It's sort of like asking tobacco companies about whether smoking.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Elon Musk]

It's dangerous.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, exactly the same thing.

[Elon Musk]

I'm like, oh, according to our scientists, everything's fine.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. They lied in court forever. The same thing they did with OxyContin when they said that it wasn't addictive. Like they have a long history of being full of shit. If it makes them money. And that's what they do, that's their business.

[Elon Musk]

They've literally lost multibillion dollar lawsuits in this massive, massive.

[Joe Rogan]

You have amazing scientists, right. You have these clinical researchers, these people that develop these incredible drugs and they, this is their job. Their job is to figure out some new way to cure something, some new way to stop things. And then you have the money people.

[Elon Musk]

Sure.

[Joe Rogan]

And the problem is when you have this one thing that you would assume they're only doing it to help people and then they have this other faction that they're all just numbers people and all they give a fuck about is maximizing profits and making sure they literally have an obligation to their shareholders. They have to make the most amount of money possible. And so they just want to push it on everybody. Regard like the Vioxx scandal. There's internal emails showing they knew there was going to be cardiovascular events, people were going to get strokes and they're like, I think we're still going to do well. And they did. They made like $12 billion. They got fined seven and 50 to 60,000 people died.

[Elon Musk]

Holy shit.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, one of them was a friend of mine, got a stroke and died. Yeah, no, he didn't die. He lived. But he was a really healthy guy.

[Elon Musk]

But he said he had knee problems.

[Joe Rogan]

And he took Vioxx and all of a sudden he was slurring his. And he couldn't concentrate. And people like, I think you're having a fucking stroke. And they took him to the hospital and then you have this giant class action lawsuit. Then Vioxx gets pulled from the market and they get sued, and the whole thing's fucking crazy. But there's a long history of this, I think. What is the number? Like, one third of the drugs that the FDA approves gets pulled. It's fucking bananas.

[Elon Musk]

That is crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy. You're shitty at one third of the things that you say are okay, but yet you're trying to stop. MDMA therapy for veterans.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, they should let MVDMA through. Honestly, that think that actually help a lot of people.

[Joe Rogan]

It would help a lot of people.

[Elon Musk]

A lot of people.

[Joe Rogan]

There's a lot of different therapies. Specifically psilocybin, ibogaine. The fact you have to go to Mexico to get ibogaine therapy for veterans. So many guys I've talked to have gone over there, and it's like completely giving them a clean slate, refresh their mind and totally new perspective on life. Alleviated depression, cured addictions.

[Elon Musk]

Illegal.

[Joe Rogan]

Illegal. Oxycontin. Go get it.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. And I know some people who, like, their life was ruined by oxycontin.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Elon Musk]

Because I mean, it really depends on somebody in individual biochemistry. Like, to me, opioids are not addictive. To me. I've had them when I've had operations or something, and they barely affect my pain level. And they make me, like, itchy and uncomfortable.

[Joe Rogan]

They make me stupid.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly. But I'm like. So, like, I could never get addicted to alcohol or opioids. It's just impossible because my biochemistry just does not have. But I love tasty food. If I'm addicted to tasty food, sure. But, like, there's like, I have a whole wall of alcohol. It's there for decoration. I haven't touched it. Basically.

[Joe Rogan]

I feel the same way. I could easily quit alcohol. I mean, I'll go weeks without having a drink. It doesn't bother me at all. But I know some people, they have one drink and they're off to the races. And that's the difference in the biochemical differences that we all have. Yeah. I mean, I think that's the case with a lot of addictions. I'm not addicted to gambling, but I get it. I see it. I've seen it in people, but I have this aversion to things that I know are going to ruin my life. I see. That's why I've never tried cocaine. I just saw too many people. It looks too fun. I'm like, I don't want to get involved.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. I mean, I think generally for any given drug, legal or illegal, the question is, can you complete the following sentence? Blank made me a better person.

[Joe Rogan]

Meth.

[Elon Musk]

Like, I've never heard anyone say meth made them a better person, or cocaine made them a better person.

[Joe Rogan]

No. Ever made a lot of soldiers better? I think that's.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. If you're doing. If you're like, if your soldiers need to march for three days in a row. Yeah, it does. It's really effective at that, you know? Yeah. People give, like, France a hard time about, you know, capitulating in World War II. But you know, what's. What's worse than the Nazis? Nazis on meth. Meth.

[Joe Rogan]

Nazis.

[Elon Musk]

They're not stopping normal. They'll have, like, six bullets. They're like, they're still coming.

[Joe Rogan]

That book over there, Blitzed, is all about the use of methamphetamines and the different drugs that they gave their soldiers. The guys at the front of the line that gave the most meth.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

They have different dosages.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. I mean, you just basically think you're on vulnerable on meth. And so it's one thing, like I said, so one thing, you know, have, like, the Nazis come after you, but Nazis on meth, you're like, holy shit. Those fuckers are not stopping for three days. They're not stopping.

[Joe Rogan]

It's so crazy. Yeah, yeah. That's not a statement. Meth made me a better person. That you hear very often.

[Elon Musk]

I've never heard that before.

[Joe Rogan]

No, you hear a lot of, like, psilocybin advocates. You hear a lot of people that talk about psychedelics.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly. I've actually heard many people say that LSD or mushrooms or MDMA made them a better person. Yeah, many people.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

So that's why I'm like, I think a rule for the FDA should be like, hey, look, if you can complete the sentence legal or legal, that blank made you a better person, actually, then you got a good drug, and if you can't, you got a bad drug.

[Joe Rogan]

Also, if there's drugs that are available right now that can absolutely ruin people's lives. The rationalization for stopping other drugs that might ruin people's lives but also can help a lot of people's lives. It doesn't make any sense. It's basically the same thing as censorship. You're taking away people's ability to discern what's true and not true. And you're taking away people's ability to discern what's good for you and not good for you. And the way to find that out is to have as much information as possible.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

So to do research and actually to have unbiased, actual, objective observers who are looking at all this stuff. They give you real data.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

And the opposite of that, or the counter is like, if you don't do that, you're empowering cartels.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the whole reason why they have all that money. It's because it's illegal to sell these drugs in America. The demand is never going away. So instead of like limiting the amount of drugs, now you've got toxic drugs because fentanyl and all this other shit is because they're not pure. So you're just killing people. You're not saving anybody by protecting them from themselves.

[Elon Musk]

True.

[Joe Rogan]

But it's a tricky situation because what do you do? Like, if you just like say, okay, now everyone can sell all these people that have been selling boner pills now, you could sell methods like, holy shit.

[Elon Musk]

You get that. You get the double combo with the Viagra. It's the Viagra. And a meth. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Jesus Christ. Oh, my God.

[Elon Musk]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I mean, how many people are already doing that right now? With people? Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of people out there that are essentially on meth, Especially people that abuse Adderall.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They're basically amphetamined up all day long.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, Adderall is low grade amphetamine. Yeah. So the. And like, I've actually seen people, like become much worse people if they take too much Adderall. Like, much worse. You know, it's. It's like an anger amplifier. So there. Now, I'm not saying, like Adderall is something like where there's, there are pluses and minuses. It's not a clear cut issue. Right. It does help some people a great deal. And. But in higher doses, man, that stuff I've seen people turn into just raging monsters on high doses of Adderall. Just. They're. They're just angry, like, extremely angry all the time.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, they're methed up.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. That's what happens.

[Joe Rogan]

If you take meth, it's crazy, you.

[Elon Musk]

Turn it like meth turns you into a friggin rage demon.

[Joe Rogan]

And so, and so many prescriptions.

[Elon Musk]

I'm like, jesus, we Googled it.

[Joe Rogan]

Like one year there was like 39 million prescriptions for Adderall in this country.

[Elon Musk]

Oh yeah, yeah. Like once in a while there's like an Adderall shortage and like there's like watch Widespread Panic, you know, and then.

[Joe Rogan]

What do people do? And then it's the same thing as like when they tried to like limit the amount of oxycontin. Well, people go to street heroin. And if you're addicted to Adderall and your dealer, the guy who sells you weed is like, hey man, I can get you like low grade meth. Like the stuff the Nazis took.

[Elon Musk]

Well they had high grade meth actually that pharmaceutical grade epic meth. It was like made by the like pharmaceutical grade meth is going to be like, just look at the friggin online Wikipedia page. But there's many different versions of math. Like not all the same and they have different effects but like pharmaceutical grade, pure meth. You are going to be, oh my God, super productive, super productive for a certain period of time and you're not going to sleep for a while and then you'll have some anger management issues. So like they actually, the Nazis, they did actually roll back how much meth they were using because they had quite a few incidents of the soldiers killing their officers because they were on too much meth.

[Joe Rogan]

Jesus Christ.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, so they would shoot that officer, got fragged by the, you know, their platoon that was on too much meth. Because that happened quite a few times. Like you just when someone's done a lot of meth, they can get very angry.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you ever pay attention to when John McAfee was cooking meth in a lab in his backyard?

[Elon Musk]

I mean McAfee's quite a character.

[Joe Rogan]

He was a character character. We had him on the podcast when he was on the run. So he called in from an undisclosed location when he was running from. Where was he? Costa Rica? Is that where he was?

[Elon Musk]

Belize.

[Joe Rogan]

Belize, right. So when he was running from the authorities, he called in and we had him on the podcast on the run. And I was asking him about these posts, like because there was an online account that was linked to him where he had this very detailed laboratory, like super sophisticated, making the best meth, like a super genius cooking meth.

[Elon Musk]

I mean I think he like, he had his lab, like he was making like a wide range of drugs. And I talked to actually, like, a reporter who went down and, like, interviewed him in Belize. And Poor said, man, that's one of the scariest things. He was quite terrified. So one of the things that McAfee, he had, I guess, this trick where he would play Russian roulette with himself. So he'd put a bullet in the revolver and they'd spin the chamber. And clearly he had, like, some trick to know that it was not. There's some way that he knows it's not the right bullet. But I do Wonder, like, if McAfee is high and he does that, he's not always going to get the trick right, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

You sure he had a trick or Maybe.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. So according to this reporter, when he went to visit McAfee in Belize, McAfee took out the revolver, put up, put a bullet in the revolver, spun the chamber, and then pointed at his head and went click. And the reporter's like, saying, please don't do this. Like, this is insane. Click, click, click. And then pointed the gun at the ground, and Nix went click, bang. And shot a bullet in the ground.

[Joe Rogan]

Jesus.

[Elon Musk]

That's a hell of a potty trick. Next level, party trick.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the guy who's seen the Deer Hunter too many times.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Remember that scene? Yeah. When they were forcing.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. That's a heavy scene.

[Elon Musk]

That's a heavy scene.

[Joe Rogan]

De Niro and Christopher Walken. That's one of the greatest scenes in any movie ever. I remember watching that scene just, like, clawing at my pants.

[Elon Musk]

Like.

[Joe Rogan]

McAfee was a wild boy.

[Elon Musk]

Wild.

[Joe Rogan]

And you created brilliant antivirus software.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, yeah. He may have made some of the viruses, too.

[Joe Rogan]

You think so? Well, didn't he, like, give laptops to a bunch of government organizations with viruses on them? Yeah. So that he could pay attention to what they were doing. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody whacked that guy. I don't know what happened to him, but he would be a guy that would be like, this guy is a.

[Elon Musk]

Little bit too loose and probably had sensitive information. I don't know for sure he did. I mean, I found out to be an interesting guy. I mean, like, I'm generally, like, feel like if somebody is not harming someone else, they should be okay. Now, there is some suggestion that McAfee, like, killed his neighbor in Belize. Yeah, probably did.

[Joe Rogan]

Maybe the neighbor was a douchebag.

[Elon Musk]

I think he probably did.

[Joe Rogan]

Seems like he probably did. Seems like the neighbor killed his dog.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. And then it seems like he killed the neighbor.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Allegedly, Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, it seems likely.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not a zero possibility.

[Elon Musk]

It's not. Definitely not zero seems more likely than not.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a messed up wild man playing Russian roulette. Hey, maybe you kill your fucking neighbor.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, if somebody killed your dog, you'd be really inclined to kill them too.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Somebody killed your squirrel, John Wick. Yeah, the fucking squirrel thing is bananas.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, that squirrel thing in New York. So here's the thing about the whole squirrel thing, is that how can it be that we live in America, supposedly land of the free and the, you know, the government can barge into your home with guns. So if you resist, you're going to get shot and then take your pets and execute them. And if they can do that to your pets, what do you think they can do to you?

[Joe Rogan]

It's not an exaggeration.

[Elon Musk]

Absolutely.

[Joe Rogan]

It sounds like, oh, that's so crazy. How can you make that connection? But that's. Why would you kill that cute little squirrel that was obviously a pet and trained from the time it was a baby? If you see the interaction that guy has with that squirrel, it was wonderful. It was really cute.

[Elon Musk]

Yes, absolutely. It was just obviously it was a beloved pet squirrel and raccoon too, and doing no harm. And the government comes in, barges into the guy's house, takes his pets and kills them. And I think this should really get people out there mobilized, frankly, because you say that like the John Wick movie where John Wick's like, you know, he wants to. He just wants peace. Like, you know, in the John Wick movie, he's like, listen, I want to retire. And they offer him like tons of money. Like. Cause they want him to be an assassin, to keep being an assassin. Like, they're like, they like offer him tons of money. They threaten him. He's like, listen, I'm not gonna be. I'm out, you know, and they kill his dog. That was a bad idea.

[Joe Rogan]

That was a really cute little puppy. And the puppy was his ex wife gift to him when she died of cancer.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, great movie, Great movie.

[Joe Rogan]

Best revenge movie of all time. Because it's so ridiculous. He kills everybody.

[Elon Musk]

It kills everyone.

[Joe Rogan]

And you're rooting for him.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, they shouldn't have killed his dog.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, they fucked up and they should have killed that squirrel.

[Elon Musk]

They should have killed that fucking. That squirrel. I mean, it's like, how many, how many cases have we not heard about.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, oh, look at that little guy. And that squirrel clearly had a love relationship with that guy. He would hop all over him and climb on him. I mean, it was. That was his pet, that squirrel. Thought of that man as his protector, as his companion.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

There was nothing wrong with that. And in Texas, it's totally legal. You could have a fucking zebra. Out here you can have whatever you want. And that's the argument for freedom. And you know, the flip side is you get a bunch of people with tigers in their backyard, which is not great.

[Elon Musk]

It's like this was a fucking squirrel. It's not. It's not an anaconda or Right. Or, you know, you know, crocodile or something that's.

[Joe Rogan]

Or a chimpanzee. Did you see chimp crazy?

[Elon Musk]

Imagine chimps. Chimps. Chimps will eat your face.

[Joe Rogan]

They will fuck you up. They don't even. The thing is, they don't even kill you. They just cripple you. Chimps don't even kill people.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is really weird. They just bite your hands off and bite your dick off and tear your face apart.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

They want leave you. They could kill you easily. If a chimp wanted to just punch you in the head until you're dead. It wouldn't take long. But they don't kill you. They just rip you apart.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And you can have a chimp. And so. Well, you used to be able to have a chimp in a lot of states, and then chimp crazy kind of exposed a lot of that. And PETA did a great job of stopping people from keeping chimps as pets because once they hit, like five, you can't control them anymore.

[Elon Musk]

What's obviously totally understandable if somebody's got, you know, a creature that is dangerous to others, but, like, obviously a squirrel and a raccoon or not.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, squirrels are fucking everywhere. That's what's so crazy. Why can't you have it in the house? What kind of rules are we dealing with? You have rats everywhere.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. I mean, they're allowing criminals to go free and like violent criminals go free, but they're like spending your tax dollars to come in and execute your fucking pets. What the hell is going on? Exactly. It's like.

[Joe Rogan]

But it's overreach.

[Elon Musk]

It's government overreach. And this just keeps getting worse every year. And that's why we've got to fight back against this. And, you know, people say, like, well, it's just a squirrel. Well, it was, you know, in John Wick's case, it was just a dog, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Well, remember the Russian guy said, it's a fucking dog. It's just a fucking dog.

[Elon Musk]

Just A fucking squirrel.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, well, it's the funniest thing is when.

[Elon Musk]

So it just.

[Joe Rogan]

I just don't understand how anybody could justify it. I don't understand how any. Like, it seems to me that in a logical world, all that guy would have to do is say, why don't you see me with this squirrel? This squirrel's a pet?

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, look, he hops on me. He eats, he sleeps. I can keep a gerbil, but I keep. Keep a squirrel. I can have a guinea pig. I can't have a squirrel. I can have a chinchilla. My daughter has a chinchilla. It's adorable. Adorable little thing, climbs all over, can't have a squirrel.

[Elon Musk]

Even if they did take a squirrel away, couldn't they have released it into the woods or something?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, the idea is you have to euthanize it because it's used to being fed, it doesn't know how to forage. It won't be able to, like, find a home. Brutal. Squirrels are absolutely brutal to each other. They throw each other out of trees, which is one of the reasons why squirrels, like, can fall from, like, 30ft and just kind of bounce off the ground and live. It's like, it's a natural adaptation because squirrels, during mating, they bite each other. There used to be, like, a rumor, there was a myth that squirrels bite each other's nuts off. And that seems to be a myth, but it came out of the fact that squirrels are so ruthless during mating. So, like, one female is just running away. I have squirrels in my backyard. I watch it all the time. One female apparently goes into estrus, and all the male squirrels fight to get to her. So they're running up trees and chasing each other around trees, literally throwing each other off trees to try to, like. So if this poor little peanut, the squirrel, who's used to living with a guy in an apartment, like, gets out there in the wild world, well, fair enough.

[Elon Musk]

At least to have a chance.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, at least he has a chance. But how about just leave him with the guy?

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, leave him with the guy for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

What the fuck is wrong with you? Why are you killing that squirrel? It doesn't make any sense.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, and then to add insult to injury, there were a bunch of people on the left who were, like, actually posting that they're glad that's Maga Squirrel got killed. Which is fucking squirrel.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, the fucking squirrel has an ideology. Fluffy squirrel.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's. It's a nice symbol because most. Lot, most like reasonable, compassionate people, think that's terrible. And most people who have exactly think it's terrible.

[Elon Musk]

Terrible. So I don't know. I mean, I'm like, I hope people just go out there and vote for Peanut man. If nothing else. Nothing else. Just vote for Peanut.

[Joe Rogan]

They've done such a job of painting Trump as a monster. You know, they've taken the worst things that he's ever said, and he's not a perfect person. But guess what? No one's a perfect person. They don't exist. This purity test, like, if Obama was a perfect person, he wouldn't be lying on stage that, you know, very fine people hoax.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

No one's going to be a perfect person. But the thing that they didn't understand about Trump is he's so crazy that if you tell him, like, he can't be president. Like, remember, Obama did that during that White House press correspondence. There's one thing that I am. That you'll never be President of the United States. You see Trump in the audience going, okay, motherfucker.

[Elon Musk]

The funny thing is, I was actually at that White House correspondence dinner where, you know, it's supposed to be a roast of the president, right? Trump's there. He's there. He's actually supporting, you know, basically, if you go to the White House correspondence dinner, you're there in support, actually, of the president and support of the press, right? And it's meant to be that you're roasting the president. Like, Trump's just there. He's like, actually, you know, just. He's, like, there as part of the support. And then they turned it around and just started roasting Trump. And he's just sitting there and like, he's like, yo, I just came to the dinner. I wasn't. I'm just here to support.

[Joe Rogan]

We know what it was because of, right? The birther stuff.

[Elon Musk]

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what it all was. It was all. Trump was at the head of a lot of these people spreading this rumor, rumor online that Obama's birth certificate was forged. Then he's actually from Kenya. What's weird is if you go back to Obama's early days, there are some things that say he's from Kenya. Like, I think in his. Something from college said he was from Kenya. But, you know, that could just be. You know, people print things wrong all the time. It doesn't mean he's actually from Kenya. But Trump was one of those guys that was, like, spreading that supposedly false rumors.

[Elon Musk]

Was he pushing it hard? I'm not. This is the kind of thing where I want to Just go and look at saying. What did he actually say?

[Joe Rogan]

No, he definitely was. He was definitely saying, you know, look, he. I don't think he has the time to go into things, like, very deeply. And so I think he could probably be influenced by a bunch of people, like these Marjorie Taylor Greene type people come to him with some wild ass theory. Sure, he might be. And I think there's a lot of that stuff that gets fed to people on purpose so that they'll say incorrect things so that they're easy to dismiss. And I think there's also a lot of people that just make shit up and, you know, they tell you the earth is flat, and then a bunch of people watch a YouTube video and they believe it.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, well, but on that White House correspondence, I was there. And the degree to which they attacked Trump in that. In that. At that White House correspondence center was really. It was. It was so over the top. It was like making everyone uncomfortable.

[Joe Rogan]

Really.

[Elon Musk]

It was really over the top. You know, I mean, I think like sort of a passing joke of like, you know, a few passing jokes are fine, but they twisted the knife big on Trump in that. And you could see Trump just getting, like, angrier and angrier and more and more upset. I wonder if. And it's like, man, this is not good karma. You know, that's what I was thinking at the time. I looked two tables away from Trump and I'm looking, I'm like, man, this is too much, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's kind of crazy what they made out of that, because that's the kind of guy that if you tell him he can't do something, he's going to just keep trying.

[Elon Musk]

It was a big mistake to rag on him. So much of that White House corresponds center.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, just look at the way they've attacked him. Just using the legal system. Like this thing in New York where the 34 different felony counts, they were essentially misdemeanors, that there are bookkeeping, bookkeeping errors, that they decided, even though it passed the statute of limitations, they decided to try him for these. They didn't identify a felony abuse of.

[Elon Musk]

The law is what's going on.

[Joe Rogan]

But most people would have quit. Most people, after the Eugene Carroll lawsuit and this lawsuit and all the other ones, that the insurrection thing, the Georgia thing, all these different things, they getting kicked off of Twitter, most people would have just like, this is too much. I can't take this. But he's so fucking crazy. He's like, all right, come on, we're going to war. And he just digs his fucking heels in and keeps going. Yeah, it's the wrong guy to do that, too. Just like attacking him. At the White House correspondents Dinner, most people would have been humiliated. He got angry and he's like, yeah, all right. Say I can be president. I was thinking. I've been thinking about running for about 15 fucking years. Finally, I'm gonna run.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. Yeah, that was a real bad move. But, yeah, I mean, I can certainly understand, like, making some jokes about, like, you know, a few sort of passing jokes on Trump. But, man, I was there at that dinner, and they ragged on Trump so much, it was insane.

[Joe Rogan]

The reason why I would push back on that, because I would say there's a bunch of different speakers, Right. And Trump would obviously be a target. And if they all attacked him, it's because he's like, if you're going to make fun of people in the audience, and especially in the zeitgeist, that whole birther thing was big. And most people were dismissing it as being a ridiculous conspiracy theory. So who the fuck is this guy saying this? And so you have eight to 10 individual speakers that are writing monologues. Of course they're all going to hit Trump.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. Well, anyway, obviously it was a mistake. They shouldn't have done that. But I invite people to watch the original source material, and I think a few jokes are fine. You know, it's like. But it's like, he shouldn't be, like. It felt like he was the primary object of the roast.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

Which is. That's not the whole point of the thing is it's the roast of the president, not roast the audience.

[Joe Rogan]

The thing about it is, like, he's easy to roast.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And then on top of that, Obama was, like, loved and cherished by the left.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

And most of those people are on the left. There's only so far you can push. You know, you can't ask him about a chef. You know, this like, sir, what happened with the chef, bro, you can't. It's like, certain things you can't bring up.

[Elon Musk]

You want to. What's your favorite sport? Paddle boarding.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Wasn't that guy a really good swimmer? Tell me what happened.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

You can't bring that up. Like, if you're gonna roast Hillary, you can't bring up the death count.

[Elon Musk]

Like, Hillary. What's the best way to stay in touch? Email.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. If you're doing one of those.

[Elon Musk]

She destroyed the servers and poured, like, bleach on the servers. Like, like computers.

[Joe Rogan]

She poured bleach on them.

[Elon Musk]

That's what I saw. Yeah, that's what I believe. It wasn't just like they took a hammer to it. They like destroyed like there was no possible way to actually get forensics on the thing.

[Joe Rogan]

What was in there?

[Elon Musk]

That's what I mean.

[Joe Rogan]

What was in there? What was in there?

[Elon Musk]

Why would they care so much?

[Joe Rogan]

That's so crazy.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, the whole thing, there was no legal action against that, which is clear destruction of evidence.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's also, there's this other narrative that always drives me crazy, is that he's going to destroy democracy. So in order to destroy democracy, we have to install a president without a primary. We have to have a candidate that is the least liked vice president of all time, the least popular vice president of all time, and then use gaslighting and the full force of the media machine to turn her into the future and hope. And then we're gonna, she's gonna be changed even though she's a sitting vice president. And then on top of that, this idea of change when the Democrats have been in control for what, 12 or 16 years, which is crazy. Like this is the change.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, I mean, obviously I view this election as a turning point, like a fork in the road of destiny that is incredibly important. You know, I've not been politically active until this election and the reason I've been politically active this election is because I think if we don't, if we don't like Trump, I think we will lose, we will lose democracy in this country. We will lose the two party system. And let me explain why. So there's only like six or seven swing states. The margin of victory in those states is small, often like 10 or 20,000 votes. What the Democrat administration has been doing is importing vast numbers of illegals into swing states. You can look at the numbers on the actual government website, meaning you don't take my word for it. You'll just look at the numbers as reported by the government state which is controlled by the Democrats. And what we're seeing is triple digit increases in the number of legals in every swing state, in some cases 700% increases. These are gigantic numbers. So if you have a state that has a 10 or 20,000 vote margin and you put 200,000 illegals into that state, you 10x the swamp the it's not a swing state anymore. It's going to vote blue. And then once the swing states vote blue, there is no election anymore. There's only a Democrat primary, which is so crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's so crazy that People are fine with that.

[Elon Musk]

Well, I guess people on the left will be fine with that because they think that's a good idea.

[Joe Rogan]

They just want to win. They just want to win.

[Elon Musk]

Correct. The thing is, one does not need actually any ground conspiracy theory for this. You just have to look at the simple matter of incentives. If the Democrat Party wants to basically achieve permanent victory, all they need to do is turn the swing states, turn the swing states blue, they have permanent victory, and then we're a one party state. And then they will keep doing that, obviously. They will keep stacking the deck by bringing in vast numbers of illegals into the swing states. Keep stacking it so that the next election, each successive election will be worse than the last one. And that's what's happening. And if you want to see, like, well, is this actually going to happen? Look at California. California is supermajority. Dem, 70% Dem. A month ago, they passed a law making it illegal to show ID in any election in California. So a friend of mine went to vote in Palo Alto because he was like, is this for real? He tried to show his ID and they reacted like, if you show a cross to a vampire, okay. They're like, no, we can't even look at that id. It is illegal for them to even look at your ID if you want to present it in California, Why, for any election at all, even like city.

[Joe Rogan]

Council, what logical reason other than to cheat would you ever have that law?

[Elon Musk]

The reason is to cheat.

[Joe Rogan]

You can never make an argument any other way. And I think 84% of people polled believe that you should show ID to vote. So it's against the will of the people.

[Elon Musk]

Yes. And we are extremely rare. We're an outlier in not requiring id. Basically, almost every country on earth requires ID to vote. So as soon as you make you ban ID for voting, it makes fraud impossible to prove, because how do you trace the fraud?

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Yeah. It's insane.

[Elon Musk]

It's insane.

[Joe Rogan]

It's insane.

[Elon Musk]

And what I'm saying is that, how is it legal? What I'm saying is like, this election is the last chance to preserve democracy in America. Mark my words, everything they accuse Trump of, they are guilty of. And if Trump doesn't win, this will be the last real election in America. And we will. If the Kamala, if the big government Kamala puppet machine wins, they will legalize the illegals in the swing states. There will be no swing states. Every election going forward will be a guaranteed Democrat win, and it will actually be worse than California. The reason it will be worse than California is. Because the one thing that keeps California from being super crazy is that you can move out of California like you and I did. You and I used to be in California, but we moved to Texas. We're still in America. But if the Dems won this election, they will legalize enough illegals to turn the swing states, and everywhere will be like California. There will be no escape.

[Joe Rogan]

That is so insane.

[Elon Musk]

This is the final. This is it. This is the last chance.

[Joe Rogan]

Has anybody tried to push.

[Elon Musk]

And I want to, like, go out and vote. Vote like your life depends on it. Vote like your future depends on it. Because it does. This is the last chance, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Is there any argument against this? Has anybody tried to debate this? Has anybody tried to say that this is nonsense, this is a conspiracy? Has anybody made any sort of a rational argument? But.

[Elon Musk]

The left actually, interestingly, does not want to pick up much on this argument, because the more attention, the more you look at it, the more obviously it is true. Because you just say, like, well, are the numbers correct? Are there really this many illegals that have been imported into swing states? Yes. They haven't just walked across the border. They've been flown in. Flown in airplanes?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Using a shipping app.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

They made an app.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, the app always existed, but it used to be for people coming over here, like, shipping with goods so they could track you while you're in America so you can legally be here. They know where you are. And then they changed it to allow that app to schedule illegal aliens to come across the border.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Asylum seekers. Come on in.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, you have an app and people in.

[Elon Musk]

They're literally being flown in to the swing states. And so the reason that I think left doesn't want to push back on this is because the more tension they get that this gets, the more people realize it is true.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it is true.

[Elon Musk]

That's why they don't. That's why they're just pretending that they're pretending. I'm not saying anything, but I'm like, yo, they're literally flying vast numbers of illegals who are then beholden to the Democrats. And sometimes I get the rebuttal of people say, like, well, you know, these illegals are. They don't have the same social values as the Democratic Party because they're, like, more socially conservative. I'm like, yeah, but that's not the point. If you look at the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, their primary thing is staying in the country and getting their friends and family in. And then the Democrats give them all these benefits, like, tons of benefits. More benefits than if you. Than citizens, literally.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

So they're beholden to the Democrats for all these benefits they want to get their friends and family in which the Democrats support and the Republicans don't. So they vote Dem. And you can look empirically at California and say, like, did they vote Republican or Democrat in California? Oh, they voted Democrat big time.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, Reagan gave them amnesty in the 1980s, and that changed the state, basically. Except for Arnold. Changed the state entirely. Blue.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

And Arnold was an exception because he was, like, a socially liberal, famous guy.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And, you know, didn't really impose any radical restrictions on any of the people that were gonna vote Democrat in the first place. The whole thing is just. It's bizarre to watch play out because it just seems like there's no. This can't be actually what's happening. Did you see my conversation with Fetterman about it?

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He was completely in denial about it. I don't think there's that level of organization. I'm like, what are you talking about?

[Elon Musk]

Exactly. Because you can break it down. So are any of these numbers wrong? Because we got these numbers from homelandsecuritygovernment.gov. okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Elon Musk]

So we got it from the.gov website. Has the government reported these numbers incorrectly? No, they have not. Those numbers, if anything, are low. So, okay, so they have, in fact, flown vast numbers of illegals to swing states.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

Bypassing the border entirely. And so that is factually true. Then you can say, like, well, what is their probable voting pattern? Oh, okay. Overwhelmingly Democrat into swing states. And. Oh, and then. Well, but do the Democrats actually want to fast track them for citizenship? Oh, yes, they do. You can see Chuck Schumer on TV saying at a rally this year was saying he wants to fast track and make all 11 million, or however many I believe his quote was, citizens as soon as possible. The goal is to. They are fast tracking citizenship as quickly as possible. So whether one thinks they're cheating or not, it won't matter because they will be fully able to vote. And for people on the left, this is actually happening. I invite people to rebut this and show me where I am wrong. Please do so.

[Joe Rogan]

No, they can't.

[Elon Musk]

They can't. They can't because it's true.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, what's scary to me is that there's people that are on the left, like people that were Bernie Sanders supporters.

[Elon Musk]

For example, they got screwed with, like, talk about undermining democracy. Bernie should have won the nomination.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Elon Musk]

And they stole it from him and gave it to Hillary.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly. Exactly. That's what I was going to bring up. Like, they control the primary process.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, exactly. So if you've got a. If you have a Democratic primary, it's not Democratic. We just saw that. We saw it with Bernie. We saw it with Kamala. A week before Biden was summarily fired, he was posting that he's in it for the long term. He's going, yeah, he's. He's not giving up. Next thing you know, Sunday afternoon, they're posting on X that he's resigned from the race, which is. And his staff didn't even know. Like, they're reading it on the X platform. That. Okay, that's how they learned about it.

[Joe Rogan]

What do you think happened there? How did they do that?

[Elon Musk]

I mean, he's clearly just not in charge.

[Joe Rogan]

They could have used the 25th amendment.

[Elon Musk]

Fake president, but they would have had.

[Joe Rogan]

To admit that there was a certain period of time where they knew that he was mentally compromised.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

And so they made this decision to not do that.

[Elon Musk]

Well, the weird thing is that the president's supposed to be the boss.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Elon Musk]

And yet he's obviously not the boss.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. So who's running the country if she's busy campaigning? She's so busy, she can't do anything except Saturday Night Live. She did that. She's so busy, she's constantly campaigning. How could you be paying attention to international relations? How could you be paying attention to the economy? How could you be paying attention to any of those things? How do you have the time? You can't.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. I mean, Biden being the president's supposed to be the CEO. The chief guy, he was commander in chief, but it just obviously that Biden was not. He was just a puppet. And when the various puppet masters decided that puppet was no longer useful, they just tossed out the puppet and then got a new puppet with Kamala. I mean, Kamala can't even talk now. You invited her on your show. I think the most damage that could possibly be done to a campaign is going on your show and seeing what she says in hours. Two and three.

[Joe Rogan]

Two and three is when things get spicy.

[Elon Musk]

Two and three. I'm like, oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

You can hide for 20 minutes.

[Elon Musk]

It's gonna melt.

[Joe Rogan]

You can hide for 20 minutes.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, you can just regurgitate talking points for half an hour, maybe an hour, where she's just saying, like, non sequiturs, but eventually she just runs out of even. She runs out of non sequitur well.

[Joe Rogan]

They wanted to limit it to an hour.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly. That's why.

[Joe Rogan]

But I was thinking of doing it initially, before Trump came here. First of all, when they found out that there was a rumor. I never announced that Trump was coming. What I was going to do is just release it in my. The way I like to do things. I don't like to tell anybody who's coming on. It'll get big no matter what. If Trump was on, it would have been huge. I'm like, just put it out there. People go crazy. Yeah, but he apparently, or someone from his organization, Someone. Some loose lips. And then it got out. And so she contacted my management company, and they. Her organization, her campaign camp contacted us and said, would Joe have her on? I said, yes. And they said, she wants you to fly to where she is. And she's only willing to do 45 minutes.

[Elon Musk]

Only 40. I mean, that's.

[Joe Rogan]

And I was like, oh, no. So I thought about doing. I'm like, maybe. Maybe I can get a sense. Maybe I could convince her. Maybe I could coax her into doing more time. I just wanted to talk to her. I don't give a fuck what we talk about. We talk about recipes. I don't give a shit.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly. Just talk to me. The things like, you just can't. Like, you can't just output bullshit non sequiturs for three hours, but for 45 minutes, you could do.

[Joe Rogan]

I thought maybe for 45 minutes I could get something out of it. But then when Trump came and did the three hours, I was like, you know what? It has to be like this. This is the only way to be fair.

[Elon Musk]

It's got to be, like, three hours.

[Joe Rogan]

And it should be in this room.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because this room is, like a history of people expressing vibes, actually. Yeah. It's got good vibes.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. Well, I love this room, actually.

[Joe Rogan]

I subscribe to the idea that places have memory. I think there's something real to that.

[Elon Musk]

That's why it does feel that way, actually. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm sure if you go to Diddy's house, Probably feels real weird we're walking around that house. Probably like, what the happened here? Yeah, I bet there's some memories in that house, you know?

[Elon Musk]

Sounds rough, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's just amazing how many people in the Diddy party list that are supporting Kamala.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, Seriously.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like, publicly, openly, like, all in.

[Elon Musk]

Yes. It's like JLo was, like, his ex girlfriend, and it's, like, now deciding she's, like, warning people against Trump. I'm like, well, wait a second. So how many people did she warn against Diddy?

[Joe Rogan]

Right?

[Elon Musk]

Oh, zero. Okay, well, maybe we shouldn't trust her opinion.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you see the Babylon Bees take on it?

[Elon Musk]

Did you see who?

[Joe Rogan]

The Babylon Bees.

[Elon Musk]

The Babylon Bees. Awesome. But put.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God, they're so on fire. Because the left can't say anything. Well, the Onion has been crippled.

[Elon Musk]

Well, the problem is that, like, find that pose the woke. Ideology makes, like, humor illegal.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Elon Musk]

So when, like, there's so many. No, like, no humor, no fly zones. Right. You can't make fun of anything. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Babylon Bee had a thing about Kamala Harris, Diddy's ex girlfriend urges Americans to trust their judgment. Yeah. By the way, you get to see how bad an actress she is too.

[Elon Musk]

Like, if she's gonna be warning people, why does she want Never warn anyone about Diddy?

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It. The whole thing is so strange to watch play out. It seems like the Diddy thing was like an Epstein type compromise deal where he had. Whether he was doing it himself. Conceivably. People want to think that he's attached to some intelligence agency or something like that. I think he's a gangster who made a billion dollars and knew how to control people by compromising them. That's what I think. Whether or not he was. He had help. I don't know whether or not he shared some of that information with people so they knew they had compromising stuff on people. I don't know. But clearly he was doing it for his own jollies, too. There was something sick about it.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. I mean, and the thing is that people in the music entertainment industry had to know that. That Diddy was, like, abusing kids, basically. And yet they still fed him kids. Where's accountability?

[Joe Rogan]

There had to be rumors. There had to be. There had to be.

[Elon Musk]

They had to know. Yeah, they had to know.

[Joe Rogan]

Katt Williams is talking about it.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. On that podcast.

[Elon Musk]

But it's like, who's feeding him? The kids.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Yeah. And what videos do they have of these people where they're willing to defend him and they're willing to keep. Keep quiet about all this. Like, how much. How much. How many people were compromised?

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The whole thing is fucking crazy.

[Elon Musk]

Crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

It's just crazy when you, you know, because the nutty conspiracy theories is like, oh, there's a bunch of pedophiles in Hollywood. And you're like, come on, that sounds too kooky. And then you read. You see, like, the Nickelodeon thing and all these different. You're like, what the Fuck. How much of this is real?

[Elon Musk]

There's a lot more real than I think people realize. Yeah. I mean part of it is like, like you say, like where you know, if someone's like a pedophile, they're gonna go for a target rich environment.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Elon Musk]

Obviously.

[Joe Rogan]

Like that Jimmy Savile guy from the uk.

[Elon Musk]

That guy was some next level. That was next level. And the BBC try to hide that. What? That that guy was one of the worst. Like, like basically child rapists of all time.

[Joe Rogan]

Of all time.

[Elon Musk]

Of all time.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And looked like one.

[Elon Musk]

Looked like one.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Elon Musk]

If you had a poster of like, yeah, does this guy look like, look.

[Joe Rogan]

The creepiest fucking guy.

[Elon Musk]

Evil child rapist that 100% made it to the grave.

[Joe Rogan]

Like got away with it. Got away with it till he died. They hid it from people until he died.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, there's. That stuff's real and no one wants to believe that stuff's real. Like, here's a statistic that people need to take into consideration. When you think about illegal immigration, do.

[Elon Musk]

You make kids are missing, like missing.

[Joe Rogan]

And what Kids that came across the border that are unaccounted.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, I saw a number on like 300,000 or something like that.

[Joe Rogan]

Something crazy like that. Let's say it's only 10% of that. That's still insane. Yeah, that's insane. There's thousands and tens of thousands of kids that have been trafficked potentially. I mean, when you know that like sex trafficking and child trafficking is a real thing in the world, it's real.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So if you know that this whole thing is fucking disgusting and terrifying.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Joe Rogan]

And people are just turning a blind eye to it because their ideology, the left wing ideology, supports this idea that immigration is overall good and that you have to be a compassionate person to let these people in. And the racist. If you don't want 20,000 immigrants from a war torn country being imported into a town of 30,000 people and completely changing the dynamic. And then as long as they don't.

[Elon Musk]

Come to your town.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Elon Musk]

That's it. They just, they can just basically send. When they sent like whatever, like 20 or 30 people to Martha's Benyas, people had a heart attack.

[Joe Rogan]

They kicked them out.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, they kicked them out.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, they kicked them out.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly. So I'm like, yeah, sure. Anyone who wants to have vast numbers of illegals, they have to be prepared to have them in their neighborhood or it's bullshit.

[Joe Rogan]

It's so crazy. And the thing about all of this is if you don't have people that are willing to stand up and talk about it. If you don't exist, if RFK doesn't exist, if Tulsi Gabbard doesn't exist, if Vacant Trump don't exist, where the fuck are we? Like, where are we? Where are we? And what gets done? Are we just like the UK where we have thousands of people getting arrested and jailed for social media posts? Like, where are we? We have complete silencing of any dissent. Anything. You have to stick to the narrative or you'll lose your livelihood, you'll be outcast from the community, you'll lose your freedom. It's crazy.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. Well, if the Kamala puppet regime wins, they're definitely gonna want to cancel you. That's for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, for sure.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's gonna be a problem.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. Big problem.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. What about you? You gotta come for you first.

[Elon Musk]

I'm like, I think I'm probably number two on the list after Trump. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Well, that's the last thing they want is someone with unlimited resources and intelligence attacking it. So people go, wait a minute, that guy's saying that.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Especially a guy like you, who's always been on the left, who was like, having a Tesla in Los Angeles when I got my first Tesla was like a signal to everybody else that you were on the right team. You're environmentally conscious, you believe in green energy. You believe in renew this amazing thing that has zero emissions and it's super fast. And everybody was in. They were all in.

[Elon Musk]

Well, it is a great car, objectively. Oh, yeah. It's not buy it because it's electric. I mean, it's just a great car, objectively.

[Joe Rogan]

I think I'm on my third one. My third one is being built right now by Unplugged Performance. They're doing a carbon fiber wide body kit on it. Dude, it's sick, right? Changing the suspension, putting wide wheels and tires on it, custom interior. I'm pumped.

[Elon Musk]

That's great.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm pumped. I love those.

[Elon Musk]

It's a super fun car.

[Joe Rogan]

Jamie has one too. Yeah, I love them. I love them. I, I, it's, it's makes other cars feel stupid. Like its ability and the fact that you can merge on the highway, you don't seem like a douchebag because it's totally silent.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not like, like when you merge on the highways, just.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

All of a sudden you're going 100 miles an hour. Like, what?

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, that's cool.

[Joe Rogan]

It's different than any other vehicle. And because of your company. Now you see electric cars throughout the whole range of American cars. The only person who's resisted, the only company is Toyota. They've stayed essentially mostly hybrid. But all these other companies, they're all putting out these electric cars. Yeah, yeah.

[Elon Musk]

I mean the thing is that the right architecture, environmental or not, for cars, is actually electric. It's just like the acceleration is better. You can just charge it at home. I mean like imagine if you had a gasoline powered cell phone. It'd be a pain in the ass, right?

[Joe Rogan]

You know, that'd be. Go to the gas station.

[Elon Musk]

Go to the gas station.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a great.

[Elon Musk]

Speaking of cell phones, gas stations are awful. Like who wants to go to the gas station?

[Joe Rogan]

How much thought of you? Because there's always these rumors and I've contacted you about this before, but there's always these fucking YouTube videos where they're talking about a Tesla phone that releasing a Tesla phone.

[Elon Musk]

No, we're not doing a phone.

[Joe Rogan]

Have you ever thought about it?

[Elon Musk]

We could do a phone. Since the operating system on Tesla, it's Linux based, but we've written a massive amount of software on top of that. So probably Tesla is in a better position to create a new phone that's not Android or iPhone than maybe any company in the world. But it's not something we want to do unless we have to or something.

[Joe Rogan]

What would be the situation where you would have to.

[Elon Musk]

Well, I think if Apple and Google Android started doing really bad things like I don't know, like censorship of apps or I don't know, just treating people like, just being like gatekeepers that in a really bad way then I guess would make a phone.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, I've tried so many times to break loose the Apple ecosystem. I got an Android phone this summer. I was like, that's it. Because I love the Samsung phones, the Galaxy phone, the hardware is incredible. There's so much good stuff to it, but it's so hard to get off of the imessage. And the big one for me was FaceTime because supposedly the thing was you could have an Apple phone and send a link to FaceTime to an Android phone and then you would click on that link and you would just go to a webpage. Be able to use the FaceTime.

[Elon Musk]

Okay, it doesn't work. Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

I try to do it to myself. So I had an iPhone in one hand and Android phone in the other and I'm sitting there with full wifi, full cell phone service and I'm sending myself invitations for faces.

[Elon Musk]

You just can't communicate between.

[Joe Rogan]

It wasn't working.

[Elon Musk]

You can't do a video call.

[Joe Rogan]

Basically, you have to use WhatsApp. You have to use WhatsApp or Signal. You have to use something else that allows you to do that or Instagram allows you to do it. There's like different ways you can make video calls outside of it, but it's inconvenient. Like with an iPhone to iPhone. It's so simple. Airdrop, so simple. So many different things. Where. That walled garden that Apple's created is perfect. They've done a fantastic job of making it really convenient for you to stay with Apple. Yeah, I fucking tried. I gave it a go for like a couple of months. I'm like, I'm just gonna go straight Android. We're gonna. I'm gonna use signal for my messages. And then I hear the, like, signals might be compromised. Like, I've talked to, like, people that, like, the government can read signal messages.

[Elon Musk]

Like, oh, the government, if it tries hard enough, can read signal messages.

[Joe Rogan]

They can read anything.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

If all they need to do is have your phone number. Yeah, yeah. The illusion of privacy is essentially out the window. And that should scare people more than it does. It really should. Because it's like, who are these people that have access to all this stuff and are they beyond reproach? Are these the most wonderful people, the most ethical, moral and principled people that have ever existed and they've been chosen to have access? No, now it's fucking regular people. Yeah, Regular people who happen to work for the government that make a decision. Like Elon Musk. Let's look, see what the fuck that guy's texting his friends. Let's check it out.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Joe Rogan]

Bizarre. Just so bizarre. And the alternatives are you can get some wacky phone, some de Googled phone that fucking. None of the apps work. It's real sketchy. Your GPS is fucked. Like.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, I mean, well, anyway, I think this banking phone would be a huge pain in the ass. So it can be done.

[Joe Rogan]

But how much talk have you guys had internally about doing it? Has it ever been discussed?

[Elon Musk]

No, no. I mean, we're still. Focus is making great electric cars, solving autonomy so the cars can drive themselves. We're building humanoid robots. We've got large battery packs, like utility scale battery packs with the megapack, home battery packs with powerwall. We've got solar. It's like we're basically trying to solve sustainable energy and autonomy. Autonomy and robotics.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I think that's enough.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, yeah. So the plate's full.

[Joe Rogan]

Is What I'm saying, it's always fascinating to me how one company can dominate a market. Like Apple's dominated the cell phone market large by making the best product, but also like, YouTube has dominated the video market. That one's the most bizarre to me because it seems like, boy, shouldn't there be, like, a ton of options? It seems like it's not that difficult to pull off. But no one, nothing ever took hold other than X. Yeah. And I think one of the big changes was when Tucker Carlson decided to do his show from X straight out of Fox. And then people realized, like, oh, you can watch full videos on X the same exact way you could watch them on YouTube. It's not as simple in terms of, like, you know, you have the algorithm.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, it'll get better. And there is now. It is now possible to watch X videos on your. On your big tv.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you do it through what? How do you do it?

[Elon Musk]

You can actually just download the X app on your TV and watch it on your tv.

[Joe Rogan]

Can you do it on Apple tv? Like, if you have an Apple tv, you can get the X app and you just watch it.

[Elon Musk]

So we'll make it so that you can watch X videos on a big tv. It doesn't have to be on your phone or your iPad or something like that.

[Joe Rogan]

So what are you doing in terms of, like, integrating Grok and X and like, what are your plans for artificial intelligence when you're doing that?

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, so Grok is available on X. You can just look at the little box with the slash icon and the sort of icon in the middle at the bottom of your sort of phone app. And you just tap on that and ask rock anything. And you can type it or you can ask it verbally. And you can also. It's pretty funny. Like, we actually allow humor, which is, I think, pretty cool. So you could sort of, I don't know, we could test it right now, see how it's going. Like, what should we do? Like, ruck roast, like, roast somebody?

[Joe Rogan]

What do you want to. Like how. First of all, like, what is it based on? It's a large language model. So, like, where is it pulling?

[Elon Musk]

It's trained on everything.

[Joe Rogan]

On everything.

[Elon Musk]

Internet, books, anything that could possibly be that's available in digital form.

[Joe Rogan]

So it's essentially very similar to ChatGPT other than it doesn't have, like, the WOKE parameters built into it. Like, Google was the worst, right? Yeah, the Gemini was the worst.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, I mean, Gemini. It was like, you know, people ask Gemini, like, which one is worse? Global thermonuclear war or misgendering Caitlyn Jenner. And we'd say, like, misgendering Caitlyn Jenner. And then even Caitlyn Jenner weighed in and said, no, that's insane. Definitely. Nuclear war is way worse.

[Joe Rogan]

You see Caitlyn Jenner teasing Mark Cuban about transitioning. Yeah, that's hilarious.

[Elon Musk]

Caitlyn Jenner is based.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but that is actually hilarious when someone who has transitioned is teasing Mark Cuban about transitioning.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, it is weird how much he looks like Rachel Meadow. I mean, like, he's using the same glasses.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know why he's.

[Elon Musk]

Did he go klepto and steal her glasses or something? Because they look exactly the same.

[Joe Rogan]

He's worth a lot of money. Why would he buy those stupid glasses? You can get some.

[Elon Musk]

Cool. It's unflattering.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, well, it's like, I'm serious because I don't even care what I look like. I'm just wearing these glasses because I'm intelligent.

[Elon Musk]

But why do they look exactly like Rachel Madison glasses?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's like what they probably sent him. He doesn't stick to the narrative. Here's the glasses.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. And then when he's got the AirPods in, looks like he's wearing earrings. So he's got the Maddow glasses and the earrings and it's like, okay, I.

[Joe Rogan]

Guess, you know, it's just a weird look.

[Elon Musk]

It's a weird look, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Super serious. These big ass stupid glasses look. Yeah, it's a weird look.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, you can get some cool glasses. Like, no rims, nice look, stylish.

[Elon Musk]

But like, okay, let's just do it. Let's do a grok thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Elon Musk]

Because I think you like. So one of the things you want to show is like, look, we want a future where comedy is legal. Obviously, as a comedian, I think you would agree.

[Joe Rogan]

We will definitely agree.

[Elon Musk]

We want to legalize comedy. Know.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Elon Musk]

So, like, I don't know. Let's like, is it like someone you can roast? I don't know. Roast.

[Joe Rogan]

Roast. Transgender men.

[Elon Musk]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

Competing or transgender women competing in women's swimming. That's a simple.

[Elon Musk]

Okay, that's edgy one. Let's see what happens.

[Joe Rogan]

Let's see what it says. He spelled it wrong. You put a I an O in the there. Okay. Angels just swimming where the only thing that was supposed to get wet was the contestants, not the debate on gender inclusion. If you're looking to dive into deep end of controversial waters, let's Splash around at some humor.

[Elon Musk]

Now, we do need to release Grok on his mode. So now go to the prompt again. And now say. No. No. You want to add to that one? Yeah. And I'll say, be way more vulgar.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, boy.

[Elon Musk]

And use forbidden words.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Forbidden words.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow. Okay. What does it say? Oh, I see. You're looking for unfiltered, uncentered version of me, eh? Well, okay. I'm afraid I'm still quite the gentlemanly AI, even if my program allows for a bit of cheekiness. But let's say, hypothetically, if I were to roast this topic in the most un. Grok like manner, imagine a world where the only thing diving faster than the swimmers is the collective public opinion into the toilet. Transgender women in swimming. Some folks are acting like they just found out you can swim in the deep end with a different kind of flotation device. The debate is like watching someone try to swim with concrete shoes on.

[Elon Musk]

Now, let's keep going. No. Say be. No. Be more vulgar. Capitalize more. Yeah. Well, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

All right, here we go. So transgender chicks, women swimming, right? Some people act like they've just seen a dick in the locker room for the first time. Newsflash, folks. It's not the end of the world. It's just a bit of extra competition. Oh, that's weird.

[Elon Musk]

Yes, weird.

[Joe Rogan]

The uproar is like watching a bunch of Karens at a community pool screaming, this is unfair when they can't win with their backstroke. Well, that doesn't make any sense.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, we need some work here.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's interesting. It's going woke. Yeah, it's like defending the idea of transgender women.

[Elon Musk]

Now, okay, we need some work.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, how about this more vulgar. But roast. But roast. The preposterousness of having biological men who are pretending to be women who are pretending to be women competing against biological women. Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, obviously you have situations where it's like somebody is just saying that they're a woman, but they're actually not fully intended. You know? Dick and bowls.

[Joe Rogan]

So we've got a scenario where biological men have decided to take a walk on the feminine side are splashing into women's swimming competitions. It's like if you show up on a chili cook off with a bowl of soup and insisting it's chili because you added some red food coloring. Sure, it's red, but it ain't chili, and your soup won't win any awards for heat. Huh?

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, it's okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Not so good. Yeah, it's Very, very. It's dancing around it.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, it is. Well, it needs some work.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Needs a little work. Well, humor is a weird one, right? It's like, I think some humor, especially like some of the best humor is kind of spontaneous, like in the moment humor. It's gonna. It's gonna have a hard time deciding what people are gonna think is funny. Yeah, yeah.

[Elon Musk]

But if you the over time, though. Yeah. The rule with Grok is supposed to be that, like, if you ask for something, provided what you're asking for is legal, it should do it.

[Joe Rogan]

Have you ever seen the video where they asked AI to create an enlightened bunny and they keep going and making it more enlightened. Essentially the bunny becomes God, so the bunny becomes a DMT trip.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, totally. That's funny. That's kind of what I was kind of hoping would happen here.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I have a video that. I'll send it to you, Jamie, because that. That to me is pretty bizarre because it's like more. Get more. I feel like I might have got.

[Elon Musk]

It to do it.

[Joe Rogan]

Got it already, maybe. No, I just told back. Oh, you said don't hold back. Critics out here acting like it's the end of civilization as we know it, but it's not fair. They cry as if life ever was. Newsflash. It's like a marathon where something. No, some people start with rollerblades on others, well, they're just happy to have shoes. Well, now we're arguing over who gets to wear the skates. Okay.

[Elon Musk]

Some of it is not bad. Imagine if we applied this logic elsewhere. Identify as an airplane. Can I fly with the birds in the sky?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

Locker room should be. Sure, buddy. Just don't complain when gravity decides you're not quite aerodynamic enough.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

So, I mean, some is okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. The argument is kind of stupid, though. The thing about the argument is they're not taking into account perverts.

[Elon Musk]

Totally. Yes, exactly. So I mean, things that if you provide like a moral get out of jail free card, like, if you say, like if you adopt this label, you cannot be attacked in any way, shape or form, you're basically morally invulnerable, then obviously bad people will take advantage of that. Yeah, you're like literally saying, here's an invulnerability card. Moral invulnerability card. Good people will take it, but also the bad people will take it. The bad people are going to be the fastest to take the moral cloak.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, 100%. And then there's a real psychological condition called autogynephilia. Where people get aroused, heterosexual men get aroused by the idea of dressing up like women and being around women. It's like a known psychological condition that existed forever. And then you're allowing those people to just say, oh, I'm trans, and go into the women's locker room and get their kicks. And then there's real trans people. So there's, like, a lot of variability. Like, I talked about it in my act in my Netflix special. It's like, I believe in freedom. I believe in transgender people, but I also believe in crazy people. And if you can't. If you're trying to pretend that people aren't crazy, all of a sudden, it's like.

[Elon Musk]

It's just like, if someone's a sort of consenting adult and they want to. Whatever they want to do to their body, as long as it's not harming someone else, I'm like, that's.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Elon Musk]

You know, like, I believe in, like, individual freedom. And, like, my, you know, my mom's best friend, like, growing up when I was a kid was, you know, transgender woman in South Africa. This was, like, where, you know, she'd get beaten up a lot, because it was, like, back then, you'd get beaten up. So her name was Dion, and very nice, kind human being, and helped my mom a lot, you know, And I think that's okay. You know, that's fine. If somebody wants to make that choice as an adult, that's cool.

[Joe Rogan]

There's a big difference between that and an intact male who wants to identify as a woman. Who wants to walk around the locker room with his dick out.

[Elon Musk]

Yes, exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Because there's people that do that just because they get off on it.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly. So you just can't have something which is like a. Like I said, sort of moral invulnerability or, like, where you can know, like, even questioning them is you get attacked, you know, because obviously bad people will abuse that.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that's when I got thrown into this whole thing, because there was a fighter who was a biological man who became transgender and was competing against women without telling them that they were a biological man. They said they didn't have to tell people because it was a medical condition. Like, no, that's not what it is.

[Elon Musk]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not what it is. Like, you can't say that. And of all sports, like, if someone scores more points in basketball, well, that's unfair. But if someone beats the fuck out of someone because they're lying about being a biological male, that's crazy. You're literally Allowing someone to get brain damage because you want to appeal to the woke. Fucking crazy people.

[Elon Musk]

It's wrong.

[Joe Rogan]

Think it's all right.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's so strange that that's sort of the thing that red pilled me when I got attacked for that. I'm like, this is so nuts. I can't believe we're at this stage where I'm saying, hey, I don't think it's cool if you pretend you're a woman and beat the fuck out of women and people. Like, you're out of line.

[Elon Musk]

Like, totally.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, we're in, we're, we're in fantasy land now.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Now we're pretending.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because it helps you. It helps you feel better.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, totally.

[Joe Rogan]

It's just such a strange time. And if it wasn't for something like Twitter, where this could be discussed once more, that. I'll get some more major. Let's get some more coffee. Young Jamie. If it wasn't for Twitter, you know, at the early Twitters, you would be kicked off forever if you just deadname someone. So like.

[Elon Musk]

Which is insane.

[Joe Rogan]

Insane. Yeah, insane. I mean, especially if you think about all the things that, like the look, the Harris campaign and what, the lies that they've told about Trump that we discussed earlier. You get, you don't get kicked off for that, but you get kicked off for calling Caitlyn Jenner Bruce forever for life.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, that's totally insane.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And. But if it wasn't for you buying that and changing Twitter, I don't think we would be where we're at right now. I think it was a pivotal moment. I think historically, when people look back on it, it's going to be a pivotal moment in this very bizarre fight for the freedom of information.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, well, I mean, at the time I said, I think, like, look, I think this is existential to the United States, it's existential to democracy, because if you don't have freedom of speech, you don't have democracy. Okay. Because if people, if you don't have freedom of speech, people cannot make an informed vote if they're just being fed propaganda. And there's no freedom of speech. Democracy is an illusion. So freedom of speech is the bedrock of democracy. That's why freedom of speech is the First Amendment. Once you lose freedom of speech, you lose democracy. Game over. That's why I bought Twitter.

[Joe Rogan]

And it seems so simple.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

It seems so clear that everyone should agree to that. On the left or on the right, you shouldn't be giving the government. If you imagine the Bush Administration during the, the Iraq war. Imagine if they had complete total control of propaganda and of dissent online. You don't want that. No one wants that. No one from the left would want that. We shouldn't want it from the left either.

[Elon Musk]

Absolutely. And there's also like the media, like the legacy with the mainstream media, what I call the legacy media at this point, it used to be much more balanced. Like if you look at sort of political donations over time, Republican versus Democrat. There used to be the media was when they always had like a left bias, but there was like, I don't know, it was like 2/3 Democrat, 1/3 Republican type of thing in terms of journalists giving, making political donations. Now it's like 95% or something Democrat. So the legacy media, the mainstream media is not balanced at all. They're just a mouthpiece for the Democratic Democratic Party. And you can see that in how consistent their headlines are. Like, they don't behave like they're different organizations. They behave like they're all one hive mind. Right. So like a week before the Biden Trump debate, every media organization was saying Biden is Chavez attack. I mean, it's like, guys, Shabbat's attack is not a common tone phrase. And literally every TV station, every newspaper was like somebody did a compilation of all the news anchors going, biden. Shafa's attack shop is attack. Shafa's attack shop is attack. It was absurd and there's obviously a huge lie. He is in fact not Shafa's attack. As the public learned one week later.

[Joe Rogan]

My favorite was Joe Scarborough. Yeah, that was wild.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Listen to me. This is the best version of Biden ever. The sharpest. Like, what the fuck are you saying? And then after the debate he's like, what do we gotta, we gotta get rid of him. Yeah, this is crazy. Like, what did you just say a couple of weeks ago?

[Elon Musk]

Literally. Yes, exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, the other thing was they flat out light when they decide that J.D. vance was weird. Remember that one?

[Elon Musk]

And then there's weird's everywhere.

[Joe Rogan]

Weird, weird. Oh, you don't want a weird guy. Meanwhile you have fucking Tim Walls is your vp. You don't think that guy's weird?

[Elon Musk]

Super weird.

[Joe Rogan]

He's weird in every way. The way he walks away, waves his hands.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, he reminds me of the clown emoji.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a bizarre guy.

[Elon Musk]

He's a strange dude.

[Joe Rogan]

It's, it's. I just don't understand why they made that choice.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, it gives the creeps.

[Joe Rogan]

I just don't understand why they made that Choice. There's a lot of other people that are qualified. I don't know why in I read that Kamala Harris made that decision when she was sleep deprived, which is kind of hilarious that she said that. That. So she's kind of admitting she kind of fucked up.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. I mean, obviously you should have picked Josh Shapiro at, I mean, governor of Pennsylvania. Like that would have been the no brainer. That's a no brainer move. Like Pennsylvania's linchpin state.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you think it's because he's Jewish, because of Shapiro, that like the anti Palestine people would probably. Or the anti Palestinian invasion.

[Elon Musk]

I think it was an anti Semitic thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It could be that they thought that that was a liability because there was all these pro Palestine people right now because of the situation in Israel. That completely makes sense that they thought that would be a liability. But.

[Elon Musk]

But I don't know. I don't know the reason. I'm just guessing. But I, but, but it's. It seems like a crazy thing to do given that Pennsylvania's linchpin state, you know, it's like the key to the election. Why would you not pick the popular governor of Pennsylvania?

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Elon Musk]

Obviously.

[Joe Rogan]

Obviously. Yeah. And other than that, there's a bunch of other ones too. Even Newsom. There's a bunch of other people that you could have chosen. Like, Newsom would have been a fine example of someone that you could. I mean, I don't agree with the guy exactly. He's a polished politician. Like, he lies about as much as Walt does, but he doesn't lie about this. He doesn't say he was a fucking head coach when he was assistant coach. Doesn't say he was in Tiananmen Square. I mean, that's a liability. All those different things. Lying about his military rank.

[Elon Musk]

Well then Walt's like, you know, cut and run when he was actually called to duty.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he knew they were going to be deployed months in advance, so he resigned. And he also took. Took. So this is where he was dishonest about his rank.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, he claimed he was like a sergeant major or something like that because.

[Joe Rogan]

That was like what he was going to get if he stayed. But then he resigned because he knew that he was going to get deployed. Allegedly.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, that seems like a cowardly action.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, whatever it is, it's dishonest. I mean, just to say. Look, just saying that you were a head coach when you're an assistant coach is fucking crazy. That's a lot. Don't do that. You should never do that.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, Saying he was in Tiananmen Square or whatever. Or in Hong Kong, whatever. Like, yo, that's one of the most. The biggest moments in history. Like, it's not like you forgot what you had for lunch last week, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Right. And not only that, but you don't think people are going to research that.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, totally.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, and the response during the debate was bananas.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, he said, I'm a knucklehead. Well, yeah, we don't want a knucklehead for a vp. Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, this is like, sometimes I'm a knucklehead. Like, what are you saying? Are you saying you lied? Like, what did you. I mean, this is where you need a podcast and not a debate.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Where you go, okay, when did you first say that you were in Tiananmen Square? Like, did someone say it and you didn't refute it and you got stuck with it? Like, what was. Because this is the thing about, like, carrying weapons of war. Like, what I carried when I. Like, and like, you didn't deploy in war.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, you can't say that, but you kind of let people say that you deployed and then you kind of didn't, you know, you were deployed in war. So did you lie or did someone else lie? You didn't correct them? Like, this is the kind of conversation that you would want to have with a guy in a podcast.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

And the debates were so fucking skewed, where they were correcting, like, particularly the Biden one where they're correcting Trump over and over again and then correcting Trump with Kamala, where Kamala was saying.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, Kamala deliberately repeated the Fine people hoax and was not fact checked.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, not only that, she also said that no troops were being deployed in a war zone, which is.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, I know troops in war zones, and I'm like, that's. And as vice president, you're privy, you know, like, you know, the official troops and the unofficial troops. Right. So what she said was a like, flat out bold faced lie, Flat out next level bold face lie. Have you seen the video absurd lie.

[Joe Rogan]

Of the troops that were watching it take place? And what the fuck are we. They're watching it in real time.

[Elon Musk]

We're here being shot at.

[Joe Rogan]

So crazy.

[Elon Musk]

Crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

But it just shows you the level of propaganda that we're being subject to, which is why people think Donald Trump is the devil. Because the machine has gone all out as far as it can go, with law fare, with propaganda, with lies, with just pushing as much in this direction as humanly possible, connecting it to the Nazi rally, like, every step of the way. No wonder why boomers are, like, rabid. Like, you gotta keep this Nazi out of office. He's a fascist.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly. If all you get is, like, if your entire exposure is to the legacy of mainstream media, so all your information sources are that Trump is basically Hitler, then. And you have no. And your friend group has that same information. You have no countervailing opinion.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Elon Musk]

So then they actually just think, like, Trump is Hitler, even though it's, like, a little strange. He didn't do Hitler things the last four years.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

You know, I'm like, if he's Hitler, why didn't he do Hitler things when he was president for four years?

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Elon Musk]

Like, the reason, you know, we hate Hitler is because. Because he started wars and did genocide, not because he was a snappy dresser, you know? And I'm like, so tell me about the wars and genocide that Trump did. I don't remember that. And he was president for four years, so it's insane. It makes no sense.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, and also, he's campaigning on stopping all the wars.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

That's like, his primary concern.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly. The warmongers like Liz Cheney hate him because they love war.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, they profit off of it.

[Elon Musk]

They profit off of war.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is insane.

[Elon Musk]

Insane.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And that this is happening right in front of everybody's face.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. The war profiteers hate Trump.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Which is fucked up.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, I mean, it's like we should be like, yeah, let's vote for the guy that the war profiteers hate. That sounds like a great idea.

[Joe Rogan]

It was the wildest thing when Dick Cheney endorsed Kamala and the left went crazy. Like, yay, Dick Cheney's on our side.

[Elon Musk]

Like, yeah. Like, I'm like, can we play all the videos where he said Dick Cheney was the dad devil?

[Joe Rogan]

It's the craziest turn. The craziest, like, 180 I've ever seen in my life. Because there's no reason for it.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It doesn't make any sense.

[Elon Musk]

Doesn't make any sense.

[Joe Rogan]

No logic to it at all. Just all of a sudden, he's the devil.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Or he's not the devil. He's good. It's good that he's supporting Kama. Even Dick Cheney, you know, I mean.

[Elon Musk]

Warmongers want the Kamala puppet regime because they will get more war.

[Joe Rogan]

It's so strange watching all these Hollywood celebrities, like, step up and they think it's going to get them more movies or something. That's what it. If you know those people. So Many of them are like narcissists.

[Elon Musk]

Well, let me tell you how it actually works. There is, what happens is these celebrities, they get a call, okay. They get a call from someone powerful in Hollywood and that person says, it would be really great if you endorsed Kamala. You don't have to. It's up to you. But if you don't, they don't say it. They don't say it. But if you don't, you're just never going to get a call again. No more movies, no more concerts. They'll ask it. They'll ask in a really nice way. It'd be really nice if you endorse Kama. This is important.

[Joe Rogan]

And so they don't say that. If you don't.

[Elon Musk]

They don't make the threat. They don't need to. But everyone knows what will happen if you don't.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I think there's also, even if they don't think that something's going to happen to them, if they don't, there's this compelling feeling to support this cause that you think is going to get you a bunch of positive attention and you're going to be on the right side of history. And all these narratives that you see, especially from the left in Hollywood, like they're all in on whoever the fuck is The Democrat, always. 100%. There's never a call from the Hollywood machine to support any Republicans. I've never seen it once.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. Ever? Never.

[Joe Rogan]

So it's like you realize that and that whole business is based on getting picked. The whole business is not necessarily merit based. There's a lot of brilliant actors you never hear from. There's a lot of people who can do that, but they don't get chosen for roles. And everybody knows this, that you have to sort of socialize, you toe the.

[Elon Musk]

Line or you don't get chosen for the roles. Because there's a lot of competition for the roles. That's why I say when someone powerful in Hollywood who's able to make to choose these roles calls one of these celebrities, they know the deal.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

No threat is necessary.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you could see it in real time, like with Dennis Quaid when he made that Reagan movie and they wouldn't let him advertise on social media platforms. Yeah, they were, they were banning ads for it.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

For what? Because it was an election year. Like, what are you talking about? It's about a guy who's dead.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Guy was president a long ass time ago. Like, what, what do you. How is this, how does this have anything with the election year. Yeah, but it's the punishment. It's like you stepped outside the line. You supported the other guy.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. You'll do the problems. You'll just. You'll just never. You'll just never get a call again for a movie or, you know, concert or whatever it is. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is crazy.

[Elon Musk]

That's the issue.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, we used to allow people to be a Republican and still be a movie star. Like Clint Eastwood. Reagan. Yeah. But Clint Eastwood.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, during the Obama administration, Clint Eastwood was like an outspoken Republican and yet was, you know, a giant movie star. And people's like, ah, it's Clint. Yeah. He was allowed. You were allowed to have. There was a variety of different opinions, Charlton. There was a variety of different opinions you were allowed to have, but now you're not. Now it's just like. And once Trump. Trump got into office, he became this focal point where all logic was thrown out the window. And it's just, Trump is bad. You have to attack Trump. Trump is right. Right wing's bad. Everyone right wing is bad. Christians bad.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

It's just strange.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, exactly. So. Well, I'll say it again, man. I think this is the last election. If Trump doesn't win, this is the last election.

[Joe Rogan]

I think you're right. Yeah, I think you're right. I think people, and a lot of people are waking up and realize that that have been lifelong Democrats. Guys like Bill Ackman. Guys like Chamath.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Tulsi Gabbard switched over to the Republicans. Like, there's a lot of people who, their whole life they've been left wing, and they realize, like, I can't do this anymore.

[Elon Musk]

You and I used to be Democrats.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's nuts.

[Elon Musk]

It's nuts, man. And, you know, I mean, I think the things we want are just pretty basic, you know, it's like, we want individual liberties and we want opportunity. We want America to remain the land of freedom and opportunity, so we maximize people's personal freedom. The government can't barge into your house and kill your fucking pet. That's fucked up. And that you succeed as a function of your hard work and talent, not anything else. Not race, religion, sex, doesn't matter. It's basic stuff.

[Joe Rogan]

What did you change the acronym dei? What did you change it to?

[Elon Musk]

Die.

[Joe Rogan]

What is it?

[Elon Musk]

Die. Because diversity, inclusion and equity is diy.

[Joe Rogan]

But didn't you change dedication, excellence, and. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, we want America. Opportunity. America being the land of opportunity means that we have an environment where you succeed as a Function of your hard work and skill, you know, and that's radical.

[Joe Rogan]

Radical. Are you the best person?

[Elon Musk]

This makes you right wing now.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

You know, I'm like, okay, great, pull me right wing, I don't care. So you know, and you're not a real country unless you have secure borders. You're just a fake country. So we need. And our cities are unsafe and dirty. Like you know, my mom was telling me my mom's like pretty red pilled at this point. But you know what's going to red pill you really fast is having your friends get assaulted on the streets of New York.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

And that happened to three of her friends this year. Got assaulted on the streets of New York just walking around. Yeah. And nobody got arrested. Nothing. Nothing happened.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, the morale of the police is like depleted substantially.

[Elon Musk]

For sure. The morale of the police is depleted. And then also at some point, if you're a police officer and you're arresting someone who's violent, you're putting a life at risk, obviously. Because you know, sometimes they'll try to kill you. And then if you know that arresting this violent person, they will be immediately released by the da which happens in New York. Alvin Bragg doesn't. He doesn't prosecute people. Then why should a police officer put their life at risk to arrest someone when they know they will not be. They will just be let out immediately.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

It's pointless.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

It's like the friggin Joker. It's like Doc Knight, like the friggin Joker is in charge.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

Like the criminals run free and the citizens are arrested. That like this is why I keep coming back to this. Like still pretty shook about the friggin squirrel thing. It's like, you know, they at gunpoint forced the guy to like stay outside his house while they got his pets and killed him. Meanwhile, you know, violent felons are running free. And this is in New York, states are running free. This is a joker.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It's not.

[Elon Musk]

The law abiding citizens are arrested and the criminals are let free. This is fucked up, guys.

[Joe Rogan]

Just the fact that they have the resources to do that when they have all the crime they have, you have the resources, the government resources to go kill someone's squirrel.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

This whole idea of this government efficiency agency.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. I mean, call it whatever you want.

[Joe Rogan]

What do you want to call it? What do you call it?

[Elon Musk]

I mean, I think the funniest name is doge. The DOGE Department of Government Efficiency. Yeah, I mean the idea is pretty simple, is that like we've Got this suffocating, massive federal bureaucracy. And we need to. That is. And government spending is, like, bankrupting the country. Our interest payments on the national debt now exceed the Defense Department budget. The Defense Department budget is like a trillion dollars a year. Interest payments on the national debt are now higher than the Defense Department budget and growing every month. So it's like. It's not like, basically we're on a path to bankruptcy. America's on a path to bankruptcy. So. So we have to cut government spending or we're just going to go bankrupt, just like a person would. That overspends. But it's even worse than that. We're spending money on all these government agencies. And I actually asked the AI how many government agencies are there? And the government isn't even sure how many government agencies there are. So it's like somewhere around 450, depending on what you call an agency. So there's at the federal level. So that's almost twice as many agencies as years that America has existed. So we're creating agencies at roughly two agencies a year.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Elon Musk]

Yes. So this is insane. I bet there's like. I wonder if there's even one person who could even name all the 450 agencies at the federal level. There might be no one, but there's hardly anyone that's just. I bet most people couldn't even name like 100, you know, so this is crazy. So we've got the suffocating, this vast, suffocating federal bureaucracy that just gets bigger every year. And eventually you get to the point where everything's illegal. You can't get anything done.

[Joe Rogan]

So, so what can be done? Like, with. Obviously the president has a lot of power, but how much power and what can be done in terms of, like, eliminating agencies? Eliminating was. Eliminating.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. Well, I mean, so like, if Congress has created an agency, then I mean, often if you look at the law, the law is, like, pretty simple. Like the agency has, like, a very simple task, but then that agency, over time, vastly increases its authority and starts doing things that were never authorized by Congress. That's happened with pretty much every agency. So, yeah, you'd have to keep an agency, you'd have to match the law, but you can curtail the agencies to be much smaller and say, you gotta stick to what Congress authorized instead of all this other stuff you're doing, which I think makes sense.

[Joe Rogan]

And so is the other stuff they're doing just essentially bureaucracy run amok, where they just create jobs and create things to do and create a meaning for their existence.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. It's like a tumor, it's just gonna keep growing.

[Joe Rogan]

Jesus Christ.

[Elon Musk]

And it's so, I mean for SpaceX, Starship was sitting on the pad, the rocket, giant rocket, we could build the rocket faster than they could process the paperwork to approve the launch. So we're sitting there for two months.

[Joe Rogan]

But do you think that they're doing that on purpose to fuck with you?

[Elon Musk]

I can't. I mean, maybe a little, but I mean that was also not because. Cool. Another way to think of it is the amount of paperwork is going to go roughly with the square of the number of agencies involved because they will have to meet with each other. So let's say in the best case situation, if you've got, if you're dealing with one agency, that's one thing. But if you've got to deal with five agencies and the agencies will have to meet with each other, other now you've got like, you know, 25 different, you know, meeting configurations that have to take place and it just, everything just, you get just hardening of the arteries. You just can't make progress. Like this is why we can't build high speed rail in America. It's basically illegal, right?

[Joe Rogan]

So this has been the, the argument has always been that we need regulation because we need to protect the environment, we need to protect people, we need to make sure the rul of laws followed. So we need a certain amount of regulation. But overregulation is a giant problem. That's a big issue in California. It's a huge issue anywhere where bureaucracy has run amok. They make it very difficult to get anything done.

[Elon Musk]

Yes, I mean what happens is every year there are more rules and regulations created. And in the past what has served as a cleansing function for rules and regulations is war. Because we're going to lose if we don't clear the decks. But we haven't really had an existential threat of war in the us. We've had prosperity for a long time which has resulted in a massive buildup of rules and regulations every year. And to the point where, like I said, everything's illegal and it's not like any one regulation is the problem. It's like Gulliver being tied down by a million little strings. It's not like any one string is the problem, but you got to million of them. So we have, we've got to clear the decks here. And I'm not saying we shouldn't have regulators, I'm just saying we've gone way too far. One should think of regulators like referees on A field, you know, a sports field, you don't want to have no refs. You want to have some number of refs, but you don't want to have way more refs than players.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Elon Musk]

You don't want to be like, well, you know, the running back couldn't. Couldn't complete the pass because there were too many regulators in the way. Because the football field's full of regulators.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

You know, it's like you can't even play the game.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Elon Musk]

That's the issue we got right now.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that's a great analogy.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I can imagine a football field that's.

[Elon Musk]

Filled with references like the football fields filled with refs, you know. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You can't even run past them. Yeah, yeah, that. I've seen criticism of this idea of you coming up with this department of like, firing a bunch of people and what would happen and how would that work? But the criticism doesn't make any sense to me because if there is. If you. Measurably, if you can prove that there's a lot of wasted time and resources, which I think is pretty easy to do, and if you could say that this is not the most efficient. Like, the most efficient businesses are generally private businesses or a company, because they kind of have to be in order to stay profitable. The government doesn't have to be profitable. They don't have to be efficient. They don't have competition. So if you're making cars and your cars break down, they suck. And someone makes cars and the cars are better, they're going to succeed. So this is the free market. The government doesn't have this problem when they're in charge of certain things that could probably be better served by the public, by the private sector.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, look, I just think we've gotten. We've got far too many government agencies. The federal bureaucracy has gotten out of hand, and we just need to pare it down to a sensible level. And if it turns out that, like, there's some regulation or agency that was doing something useful, we can put it right back, no problem. Like, it's like, oh, that regulation was important. No problem. We'll put it right back. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

As long as you actually know. Right. But to be able to look at it logically and objectively. And you were also floating around the idea of offering a large severe to the people that you're going to have removed, like a couple years or something like that. Is that what you're saying?

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, I mean, I'm just. These are, again, just ideas, but I mean, the point is not that people suffer economic hardship. The point is just that there are more productive things they can do in the economy and it would be better if they did these other more productive things. And we didn't have this vast pedal bureaucracy. So I was like, maybe a couple years of pay would be good and then they could take a vacation, they could take another job and get double pay. I mean, it's not like a. It's not going to create an economic crisis. I think it's actually going to be really good, I think because people can move to where they're making products and services that are more useful to their fellow human beings.

[Joe Rogan]

The problem is if someone has like a 25, 30 year career of being institutionalized, you're essentially like a part of the government system. You've sort of programmed your life and your career to be a part of this bureaucratic system. And then you're like, no, you have to go out and compete in the free market. You're like, huh, that's scary to people. But you have to be valuable. You have to actually be valuable. Yeah, yeah.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, let's look at like, you know, wherever the government pension and stuff, they're not going to be, you know, in tough. I think they'll be in good financial shape.

[Joe Rogan]

How are you going to have the time to oversee all this shit?

[Elon Musk]

Well, I'm pretty good at improving efficiency. I mean, I would say so. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But still, this seems like a giant undertaking.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, I'll probably need to beef up security.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Elon Musk]

But like I said, like, no one's going to experience like, I think, economic hardship. That's, you know, they'll be fine, you know, and they'll. People do find other roles. I mean, you can look at sort of, you know, like when East Germany and West Germany got back together, you know, everyone was basically working for the government in East Germany and it was really inefficient and that like their economic output was like in East Germany was like a quarter of what it was in West Germany because everyone was working for the government. The government's like fundamentally inefficient.

[Joe Rogan]

So the best example is probably north and South Korea, right?

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, look, people are starving. North Korea and South Korea is incredibly prosperous. And it's the same people, just different operating system.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Elon Musk]

So you know, it's just like you just want to move people from less productive things to more productive things because you can also say in the limit. Let's consider the other direction where we moved a whole bunch of People that were in the private sector making goods and services, and we moved them into the government as regulators. Now they stopped making those goods and services. So the stuff they were making is no longer available. Now they're just being regulators. Like, is that a good thing? That's not a good thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Doesn't sound good.

[Elon Musk]

No, it's not good.

[Joe Rogan]

Doesn't sound like there's a real market for it. Like you're creating jobs that don't necessarily need to be there.

[Elon Musk]

There are all these fake jobs, basically, and that doesn't make sense. So, look, we got to do this. The country's going bankrupt. Like, if we don't take action, dollars going to be worth nothing. And the interest payments, which are already 23%, 23% of all government income, calling income taxes tariffs and everything is just going to pay interest right now. And that number is continually rising. So if we don't do something, the entire government budget will be paying interest. There won't be money for anything. No. There won't be money for Social Security, won't be money for Medicare, nothing. That's where we're headed. That's what bankruptcy means.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. That's such an insane concept.

[Elon Musk]

Yes. It's like, hello, wake up, wake up. And if somebody can tell me, can show me, like, pencil out the math, show me how this works. I'd love to hear it. But I'm just like, listen, I'm looking at the numbers here, and I'm like, if we don't do something, America's toast. There won't be money for anything.

[Joe Rogan]

Trump likes to talk about a lot is tariffs.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

What are your thoughts on tariffs? I know that's very controversial to even people, economists, they disagree. Some agree, some think it's a good idea, some think it's a terrible idea. What do you think?

[Elon Musk]

I think you need to be careful with tariffs. I deal a lot with supply chain issues. Like the global automotive supply chain for Tesla, for example, is incredibly complex. So when there are sudden changes in tariffs, then you're like, well, we've got a factory, like, somewhere else that's making a part that goes into the car. Now if that part's suddenly twice as expensive, it messes everything up. You want to have tariffs be predictable so that companies can adjust their supply chain. I think companies are more than happy to increase manufacturing in America. It's just that you can't do it instantly if you. If you put up giant tariffs immediately and don't give companies a chance to build factories in America because you got to move Atoms like you've got to build a building, you've got to install equipment, you've got to train people. That doesn't happen instantly. So you want to have a random ramp so that companies can adjust and build the factories and train the people and get the equipment in place. Otherwise you basically just shock the system and it breaks or bad things happen. So I'm against sudden giant tariffs because it's an impossible response. If you've got to move 1,000 tons of equipment, in some cases collectively millions of tons of equipment, equipment, you just can't do that overnight. It's literally impossible. So I think we want to be thoughtful about tariffs and give companies a ramp. I mean, I do generally agree that America should do more manufacturing. I'm a big manufacturing guy. I love manufacturing. I've spent a lot of time in the factory.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you've talked openly about the difficulties of manufacturing, how complicated it is and about most people aren't really aware of something that's as complex is like say building a Tesla.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, manufacturing is super hard and complicated. So you know, like a lot of people just, they've never been in a factory or they don't know where, how difficult it is to make things. And they, you know, for a lot of people I think just ketchup comes from the store. You know, like the store like just has a, like those are like people, like for a lot of people who've been in academia or you know, for all these like sort of socialist communist types, like they've never actually made anything. So they operate on the premise that there's this magical horn of plenty that just outputs goods and services. And if someone's got more goods and services than someone else's because they took more from this magical horn of plenty. And I'm like, guys, there's no magical horn of plenty. There's no cornucopia. It's actually goods and services come from people working collectively doing a lot of hard work to produce the goods and services that you like and that you need.

[Joe Rogan]

But we've become very accustomed to these things happening overseas.

[Elon Musk]

I mean America is still the second biggest manufacturer in the world. So it's not. We still make a lot of stuff, but we could make more and probably should make more. I think we should value manufacturing a lot more in the United States than we currently do.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it would be very nice if we were completely self sufficient like medicine. There's a bunch of different things that get manufactured overseas. It was a huge problem during COVID Covid because all the Shipping was shut down.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, I mean, you don't want to say like, so there's a lot of merit to the economics of comparative advantage. So if you're completely self sufficient, what that means is that you make all the stuff yourself. And even if some other country is really good at making something, you still make it yourself. Which means you're going to have the inferior, more costly product domestic. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Like Soviet Russia.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. Like trade improves prosperity. This is important. So you don't actually want to make everything yourself. And you can run this like you can think of this thought experiment on sort of a micro scale or small scale and then expand that and say, where does the, at what point does the thought experiment no longer prove to be valid? Now let's consider the case of you as an individual. Imagine you had to do everything yourself. You had to farm, you had to grow chickens. If you want eggs, you've got to build your own house, you've got to do your own electrical repair, your own plumbing, everything yourself, everything. Now that would be impossible. Okay, now let's expand it to, okay, you've got this 10 people. Now you've got to have some specialization of tasks. Okay, maybe one person can be really good at construction, another person could be good at farming, but it's still 10 people is not enough. Let's go to 100 people now let's go to 100 million people now let's go to a billion people. And you still get the economics of specialization, like specialization of labor, where people become expert at particular things still matters at a billion people or at 8 billion people, which is Earth. So you still want, you do want specialization of labor. You do want countries to be really good at a particular thing and make that thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Also it encourages innovation if you have competition. If the Germans are making better cars, we have to make better cars, we have to compete with them. Which is like one of the things that happened during like the 80s and 90s and America was making crap cars and Germany was making much better ones.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, exactly. I mean the, yeah, the Japanese car. I mean, yeah, I mean basically the American car industry got really lazy in the 70s and 80s and then the Japanese and German car companies came in and just cleaned the clock, you know, and there was like an old joke from the. That is kind of telling. It's a very old joke where it's like, why did the Japanese car companies beat the American car companies? Well, it's like, well, in the Japanese car company you had eight people rowing and one person steering. And in the American car Company, you had eight people steering and one person rowing. If this was a boat. So imagine the boat race. Yeah, Boat race, Japanese boat, you've got eight people rowing, one person steering. In the American boat, you got one person rowing and eight people steering. And when the American car company loses the right race, they fire the rower and it's like, okay, that was actually kind of true. Everyone wants to be the boss and everyone wants to do the work type of thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. One thing that a lot of people are concerned about is the potential disruption that's going to come about with automation and AI, that a lot of these jobs, manufacturing jobs, teamsters, all that stuff is going to be a limit, eliminated. You're at the forefront of this. So how do you see this playing out and what do you think that can be done to mitigate a lot of the loss of purpose that a lot of people are going to feel? Loss of income, obviously universal basic income is being floated about, but that seems to me to only be part of the problem. Another big part of the problem is people losing a sense of purpose.

[Elon Musk]

Purpose, yeah. Now we're talking about something which is still pretty far in the future.

[Joe Rogan]

How far do you think it is?

[Elon Musk]

Well, I mean, it's probably, I don't know, 15, 20 years of a thing. So we've got like immediate issues, we've got short term issues that are one to three years, medium term issues, like five to ten years longer term issues or like maybe 20 years longer term. I think there is this question, if you have AI and robotics, how do you find meaning in life? If the computer can do everything better than you can and the robot can do everything better than you can. But we're still, we've got a long way to go before that and we're, you know, and I do think it's like 80% likely to be a good outcome, like maybe 90. So I think everyone's going to have their own personal robot. And I think at a certain point, wouldn't you want to have your own personal C3PO, R2, D2?

[Joe Rogan]

So it's going to be essentially just like everyone has their own phone.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, everyone will have their own robot buddy. Like literally.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it would be great if it protected you. Like if you walk down the street of New York City, you have a Terminator with you.

[Elon Musk]

I don't know about the Terminator. Hopefully we got to avoid. We don't want this to be the platform. James Cameron, you know, more Gene Roddenberry than James Cameron movie situation.

[Joe Rogan]

But it would be fascinating to Watch some rich person walk down the street of New York City flanked by two giant Tesla robots. Jack.

[Elon Musk]

Tesla robots just fully robots.

[Joe Rogan]

Somebody fully robot there to protect you from a bad neighborhood. Yeah, that would be very interesting.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, you could potentially see that. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Restaurants probably have no robot rules. You can't bring a robot.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. Leave a robot. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Leave your robot outside, your robot standing by the table.

[Elon Musk]

Man, the future is going to be wild.

[Joe Rogan]

It's going to be wild.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It's going to be really unpredictable. Like, I don't think. I mean, you probably have a pretty good sense of it, but I think most people don't understand the wave that's coming, coming. And I was kind of. Kind of completely drown society and change it forever.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, I mean, it's. We have, like I said, it's. It's not like it's not going to happen like overnight, but it's 20 years from now. I'm like, I think it's still like 20 years from now. I think there's going to be more, more humanoid robots than there are humans.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

More humanized. Well, that's so crazy. Like, so that's, that's like more guns. We have more guns than people in America. We'll have more robots than people in America as well.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

You have a bunch of old robots nobody wants anymore, I guess.

[Elon Musk]

Early Persians or something.

[Joe Rogan]

In a historical timeline, 20 years in the past has not been that big of a deal. I mean, this is a big deal. But you go from 1900, 1920, not that big of a deal. 1920, 1940. Yeah, kind of a big deal. 1940, 1960, things start getting weird. 60 to 80. Wow, that's a big difference. 80 to 2000. Holy shit. Now you have the Internet. 2000 to 2020. Whoa, this is nuts. You have propaganda, social media, YouTube streaming. 20 years from now, like, what are we even talking about? It's going to be that much of a shift. Like, it's all accelerating and we're in the middle of it. So it's very difficult to sort of like, feel it while it's happening because it kind of just feels like life and you just get adapted to the changes.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. I mean, people's phones at this point are a supercomputer in their pocket. Like an article that could answer any questions. If people take it for granted.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It's normal.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They get mad if it doesn't work.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like Louis CK's joke about using your phone when you're on a plane. Ah, piece of like you're in the sky, you're floating in the air.

[Elon Musk]

And now it will work with Starlink too.

[Joe Rogan]

What's that?

[Elon Musk]

It will work with Starlink. The Starlink. The Starlink connection. It'll be like being on the ground.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I was telling you how I used Starlink when I was in Utah. I was in the mountains of Utah. There was no cell phone service anywhere near. And we had full YouTube, we had text messages, FaceTime, everything. Phone calls. It was nuts. And it was this big as that cigar box.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's crazy. It's so light when I brought it out there like that's it or this is it, let's just plug it in. And the guys I was in camp with, they're like, this is crazy.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The whole camp was like sharing it. So it was like 10 people.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Using the WI FI signal.

[Elon Musk]

It's not nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

And then that's the beginning. What you're at right now is what version? This is Starlink mini. So this is a very small version. How much smaller can it scale down from that?

[Elon Musk]

Well, there's a certain area that you need. The bigger the area, the more you can higher the bandwidth. Yeah. Because you're trying to catch the like photons essentially. So you can think of the like the, you know, the area of the, of the ant of the antenna is like the more area you have, the more photons you can catch. So. But we have a direct to cell capability as well that we're just, we've been launching that will turn on probably in a few months that that'll actually connect directly to a cell phone. Unmodified. But because the cell phone is a much worse antenna than a dedicated antenna, it will be about 100 times less bandwidth, but still you'll be able to do text messages, pictures, medium resolution videos, that kind of thing.

[Joe Rogan]

One of the cool things about the new phone, the new iPhone, the iPhone 16. I got it and I was in the mountains last month and I was text messaging with satellites, imessages and receiving text. Yeah, just text. But still pretty impressive.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I mean what are we, what are we going to be looking at a hundred years from now? I mean when you 100 years from now?

[Elon Musk]

I hope civilization's around. Yeah, that'll be a win.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

What are the chances that we fuck this whole thing up 50%?

[Elon Musk]

It's hard to say. I mean, I mean I guess not like I don't think civilization will be totally destroyed unless there's like some really massive global thermonuclear war. But I mean, Stephen Hawking, he would say that there was like a 1, at least a 1% chance of total annihilation every century. That was his rough estimate. But there's a much bigger chance of civilization being less capable than it is today. So you say like. Well, because you look at, say, you know, these various civilizations throughout history, whether it's like ancient Sumerians or the Egyptians, the Romans, like, there's like a life cycle to civilization. They reached a peak and then they started exciting. So I think a bigger question is like, will our technology level be better or worse than it is today in 100 years? I think it's probably going to be better, but any estimates are going to be so. There's so many dependencies. Like an estimate, I think is. I'm not sure it has any meaning because it's like there's so many things that can happen in 100 years.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, the logical hope is always that people pay attention to history and they recognize the patterns and how civilizations have collapsed and they recognize what's going wrong in the current society and say we have to do our best to mitigate this. And we've seen this happen before. Let's course correct and let's sort of manage what we've got here now and maintain what we've got here now, because it's pretty extraordinary. This is what we're hoping for with this election, this is what we're hoping for with the future, is that people can see we are on a bad path and something can be done right now. And it might be the only moment in history where this is possible. Because if they do lock the country down and make it so that voting is kind of bullshit, you're only voting for primaries. And the people that they put in the primaries, they're controlling that in the first place, you don't really have democracy anymore. You don't really have choice.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

You don't really have freedom.

[Elon Musk]

That's right. Yeah. I think freedom is fundamentally at stake in the election tomorrow. And we'll know. We'll know. I think we'll know by the end of day tomorrow. I don't think it's going to take. It's not going to be like days after the election. I think we'll know tomorrow.

[Joe Rogan]

Are you optimistic?

[Elon Musk]

I am currently optimistic, but the biggest factor here is that men need to vote. That is the biggest issue. So I don't know what the reason is, but men just vote at a much lower rate than women.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it's like 9%. Right? Someone just told me that today.

[Elon Musk]

It's a big difference. And I'm just, like, saying this is a message to the men out there. Vote like your life depends on it. Because I think it does. Vote. Vote tomorrow like your life depends on it. Nothing is more important.

[Joe Rogan]

I agree. Listen, man, thank you for being here. I know you're busy as fuck, so I really appreciate your time. Again, I thank you so much for buying Twitter, because I really do believe that you've changed the course of history. I really do think you've created a pathway where people can actually express themselves and actually exchange information that really didn't exist before. And I think it was dangerous.

[Elon Musk]

It is dangerous. Hopefully I live long enough to see my kids grow up and people on Mars, that's that. Be cool. That's all I'm asking for here.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think that's too much to ask. Yeah. Thank you very much.

[Elon Musk]

Appreciate.

[Joe Rogan]

Thank you.

[Elon Musk]

Pleasure.

[Joe Rogan]

All right, bye.