#2238 - John McPhee

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Joe Rogan Experience #2238 - John McPhee

Release Date: December 4, 2024

In Episode #2238 of The Joe Rogan Experience, host Joe Rogan engages in a profound and intense conversation with guest John McPhee. The discussion delves deep into topics ranging from martial arts and military experiences to personal growth and societal issues. Below is a detailed summary capturing the key points, discussions, insights, and conclusions of their dialogue.

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1. The Power of Overcoming a Challenging Childhood

John McPhee opens up about his tumultuous childhood, having lived in a brothel at the age of 12. This adversity, he explains, provided him with an "extra gear" that many fighters possess, enabling them to endure and excel in high-pressure situations.

• Quote [01:08]:
  McPhee: "I was listening to it in the sauna this morning and I was like, oh, my God. So I'm there cooking and 195 degrees, listen to you struggling."

He emphasizes that overcoming such hardships instills resilience, which is crucial in both the military and combat sports.

---

2. The Role of Martial Arts in Mental and Physical Strength

The conversation shifts to the significance of martial arts, particularly Jiu Jitsu and MMA, in maintaining mental health and physical prowess.

• Quote [03:50]:
  Rogan: "Jiu Jitsu is my sanity."

McPhee concurs, describing Jiu Jitsu as a form of meditation that cleanses the mind by fully engaging the practitioner in the moment.

• Quote [04:06]:
  McPhee: "We were talking about bow hunting... it's just like, being able to control your focus."

He discusses the evolution of martial arts techniques, highlighting how disciplines like wrestling and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu have transformed combat sports over the years.

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3. Evolution and Diversification in Combat Sports

Both discuss the advancements in combat sports, touching upon legendary fighters and pivotal moments that shaped modern MMA.

• Quote [06:05]:
  McPhee: "Watching Hoist run through every dude... I knew like right then and there I was helpless."

They reminisce about the early days of MMA, the introduction of fighters like Helio Gracie, and how strategic techniques like leg kicks revolutionized the sport.

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4. Personal Experiences in the Military and Combat Missions

McPhee shares harrowing tales from his time in the military, including solo missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. These stories underline the unpredictability and constant danger faced by soldiers.

• Quote [20:33]:
  McPhee: "Yeah, I was in there for half an hour. I kept going. I'm like, this life was so up."

He recounts specific missions, such as capturing members of Saddam Hussein's inner circle, showcasing the blend of strategy, courage, and improvisation required in combat scenarios.

• Quote [84:22]:
  McPhee: "I laid there just wide awake... ready to fight at all times."

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5. The Importance of Training and Preparedness

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the necessity of rigorous training, whether in martial arts or military operations, to build an "unshakable core."

• Quote [64:05]:
  McPhee: "The army is really good at developing this core."

They critique current training methods, especially in policing, advocating for more comprehensive and practical training to handle real-world dangers effectively.

• Quote [73:50]:
  McPhee: "If you trained police better... why would we need SWAT teams?"

---

6. Societal Issues: Defunding the Police and National Security Concerns

The duo debates contemporary societal issues, notably the movement to defund the police, arguing that it could lead to increased danger and inefficiency in law enforcement.

• Quote [76:26]:
  McPhee: "Crime is real. Evil's real."

They express concerns about national security, the influence of foreign entities like China infiltrating American infrastructure, and the vulnerabilities these pose.

• Quote [82:16]:
  McPhee: "Crime is real. Evil's real."

---

7. The Intersection of Technology and Personal Defense

The conversation touches upon the use of technology in personal defense, such as non-metallic weapons and innovative gear designed to bypass security measures.

• Quote [142:33]:
  McPhee: "They curve the glass... it's harder to learn, harder to master."

He introduces unique defensive equipment like punch daggers and combat bands, emphasizing their practicality and stealth.

---

8. Personal Development and Continuous Learning

McPhee advocates for continuous self-improvement, both physically and mentally, through disciplined practices like Jiu Jitsu, responsible firearms training, and maintaining physical fitness.

• Quote [150:16]:
  McPhee: "It's better that's with everything, right? Yeah, I think so."

He underscores the importance of adapting and evolving one's skills to remain effective in any challenging situation.

---

9. Reflections on Age, Fitness, and Mastery

As the conversation progresses, they discuss the impact of age on physical capabilities and the importance of maintaining fitness to stay competitive in combat sports.

• Quote [165:18]:
  McPhee: "He's the only person... I'm the only belted guy fighting under Hicks in Masters."

He shares his journey in weight loss and fitness, highlighting the transformative power of discipline and determination.

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10. Closing Remarks and Future Endeavors

Towards the end of the episode, McPhee mentions his upcoming book titled The Singleton, detailing his solo missions and leadership lessons from the military. He also showcases various self-made gear items designed for personal defense and combat efficiency.

• Quote [152:23]:
  McPhee: "If you know anybody who buys, someone."

He invites listeners to connect via his website, SheriffOfBaghdad.com, and expresses enthusiasm for future collaborations and continued personal growth.

---

Conclusion

Episode #2238 of The Joe Rogan Experience offers listeners an unfiltered glimpse into the life of John McPhee, a seasoned martial artist and military veteran. Through candid storytelling and in-depth discussions, McPhee highlights the importance of resilience, continuous training, and preparedness in overcoming life's adversities. The episode not only entertains but also imparts valuable lessons on personal development, the evolution of combat sports, and pressing societal issues.

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Notable Quotes:

1. John McPhee [01:08]:
   "I was listening to it in the sauna this morning and I was like, oh, my God. So I'm there cooking and 195 degrees, listen to you struggling."

2. Joe Rogan [03:50]:
   "Jiu Jitsu is my sanity."

3. John McPhee [06:05]:
   "Watching Hoist run through every dude... I knew like right then and there I was helpless."

4. John McPhee [64:05]:
   "The army is really good at developing this core."

5. John McPhee [76:26]:
   "Crime is real. Evil's real."

6. John McPhee [142:33]:
   "They curve the glass... it's harder to learn, harder to master."

7. John McPhee [150:16]:
   "It's better that's with everything, right? Yeah, I think so."

8. John McPhee [152:23]:
   "If you know anybody who buys, someone."

---

This episode serves as a testament to the enduring human spirit and the relentless pursuit of excellence, making it a must-listen for enthusiasts of martial arts, military history, and personal development.

Transcript

[A]

Joe Rogan Podcast.

[B]

Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train my day.

[A]

Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. Good to see you, brother. Yeah.

[B]

How are you, man?

[A]

Great, great. It was nice to meet you at F1 and I really loved your episode of Sean Ryan. I love that dude.

[B]

Thanks, man. Yeah, Sean is.

[A]

He's the man.

[B]

He's awesome. I love Sean.

[A]

I'm so glad there's guys like him doing this, that, that there's. There's more people like him that are like, finding new ways to, like, you know, media is so wide open now, and it's not. You don't have to get hired by a television station anymore. You could just start your own shit. And Sean's show is fucking great.

[B]

Yeah, he's great. Sean's. I love him as a person.

[A]

Yeah, I love him too. He's great. He's an awesome dude. And I loved you on that show, but God damn, man, that show was crazy. Like, your childhood was so nuts, dude. Hearing about you living in a brothel when you were 12 years old. Me, my brother, dude, your whole story was so nuts, man. I was listening to it in the sauna this morning and I was like, oh, my God. So I'm there cooking and 195 degrees, listen to you struggling.

[B]

I was in there for half an hour.

[A]

I usually do 20 minutes, but I kept going. I'm like, this life was so up. I feel like I shouldn't bail right now. I should keep listening.

[B]

I feel like, like. But I'm not the only one. You know what I mean? I feel like where I was in the army is full of guys just like that.

[A]

100%.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

100%. Yeah. And I think in some, well, fighters as well, you know. A lot of fighters I know, like Sean Strickland. A lot of guys I know had fucked up childhoods. And I think it gives you an extra gear. I think when you can get through a childhood like that, you got an extra place that you can go to that other dudes can't go to. And in your line of work, that comes in very handy.

[B]

Yeah, I. Well, I think it works like this. I never heard it as an extra gear, but here's the way I always equated it. You know, you're gonna get a beating and it's coming at 5:00, you know, you know, after dinner, you. They're gonna be hammered. And this is another argument in fight. And it's a pattern, right? And you know this as a kid, right? And what happens is you gotta Take that beating and then, like, put your church clothes on. We're going to church. You know what I mean? Yeah. And the truth is, like, a mom, I think my. My brother more than me, but I think my mom actually had him convinced that we were super bad. K. You know, we were. I don't know, a couple years ago, I was like, you know, like. You ever met an actual bad, like 4 or 6 or 8 year old?

[A]

No. It's raised right. It's all. Now they're.

[B]

And then it was kind of like. Yeah, I think that was an eye opener for him. But, like, it was always our fault.

[A]

Well, that's the thing. You can convince kids of almost anything. You can convince them that it's their fault. You can convince them that they're bad kids, and then they feel bad for the rest of their life. They feel like a piece of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's a lot of people out there that didn't do anything wrong. They just raised by shitheads and for their whole life they feel like garbage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they don't know why.

[B]

Yeah. I agree.

[A]

So hard to snap out of that, too. And it takes something for you to do that makes you feel valuable and worthwhile. Like you have to kind of like relearn who you are as a person.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And some people never do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they, you know, find meth or heroin or something. That takes the edge away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They can just exist.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I'll tell you, that was the army for me. Like, the first time I ever felt like. Like I fit in or I was with people like me. Right. Was when I was, you know, in Ranger battalion.

[A]

Yeah. I think fighting is the same way. A lot of those guys, the only time they ever feel normal is when they're in a gym with a bunch of other savages.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like guys who want to do that for a living, you know, generally, something terribly wrong happened when you were young.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That put this anger, this monster inside of you.

[B]

Well, I tell you the. I tell people all the time. Jiu Jitsu is my sanity.

[A]

Yeah. Jiu Jitsu is meditation, man. Because if you are doing jujitsu, you can't be thinking about anything else.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So it cleans your mind up. You know, we were talking about bow hunting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think that's the same thing. I think in a different way. It's just when you're doing that, it's so difficult, you can't think about anything else.

[B]

Right. I love when I'm. I don't even care if I Get or see an elk today. The places I go to get these elk, right. I could just sit there all day. Anyway, I know, you know what I mean? The fact that, like, one of these majestic beasts is going to walk 20 yards from me, fucking bonus, you know what I mean? Like, I just. You know what I'm saying? Like, and I feel the same about Jiu Jitsu, you know? Like, I always, like, in Jiu Jitsu, when someone does, like, what you call high level Jiu Jitsu to me as it's happening. Like, couldn't. I don't care if you're smashing my face. That was amazing. Are you kidding me? Like, let's take a moment here. You know what I mean?

[A]

It's amazing that someone can do that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I remember when I was first starting Jiu Jitsu, I was like 30 years old, and I thought I was a badass. I had kickboxed. I won a bunch of taekwondo tournaments. I thought I knew how to fight. And I remember one day when I was a white belt, this purple belt just raped me. I mean, he was my size. This was what drove me crazy. He wasn't bigger than me, and he just destroyed me. Just destroyed. Just did whatever he wanted. Triangled me, armbarred me, choked me. And I remember walking out of there going, I can't. First of all, what a, like, shift of, like, who you are in the world, knowing that someone can just do that to you. Not a bigger guy, like someone your size can just. You're helpless. And then I remember thinking, I got to get good at this. Like, that having that as a skill, that's like one of the greatest things you could ever have. Like, because that's what martial arts was supposed to be when we were kids. Like, that the smaller person could beat the larger person just with technique.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Until Horse Gracie came along, you never really saw that the bigger guys always won, right? And then Hoist Gracie, all of a sudden, he's killing people from his back. And we're like, what is going on?

[B]

Yeah, this is crazy. He's losing. He's not losing.

[A]

All of a sudden, he's like. He strangled some guy with his legs. We're like, what the is this?

[B]

Yeah, I agree, I agree. I tell you, I met Hoist. Like, we, you know, in the early days, we'd bring Hoist, and Haurian was actually the first Gracie I met before Hoist, right? But we'd bring Hoist in and, like, watching these guys, like, you know, we get like 60 guys up on the mat. And this is hard to do and this is a lot of guys because it's Hoist, you know. And he would run through every dude. Yeah, every dude. And it was like not like, not like it was a close match. It was like whatever dude from the Defoe stepped in front of him was the 12 year old child against the fucking an adult.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like he just fucking handled everybody. And I remember one of those times he just fucking. I did something and he cinched down on me like a spider and I couldn't fucking move. And he goes, yes, I did not think of this. This is good move. And I was like, I don't know what the I'm doing. Like you. You know what I mean? I, I wasn't even a white belt yet. I was just. He was just me up, you know. But I knew like right then and there I was helpless.

[A]

Yeah, it's a weird feeling.

[B]

And like, yo, unacceptable. You know what I mean? Right? Unacceptable.

[A]

Yeah, you gotta learn this.

[B]

You got to know some of it, you know what I mean? And, and even back then like we would all tell Hoist, you know, cuz we were more Muay Thai, we would train a lot of Muay Thai boxing, right? Wrestling, a lot of wrestling, you know, before the. And like we would tell Hoist back then, as soon as you learn to punch, you are super dangerous. Which is I think where it is now.

[A]

Yeah, well, I think wrestling is kind of. There's like so many elite wrestlers now that have learned submissions. And that extra skill of being able to throw bodies around is another level.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Because wrestlers can learn Jiu jitsu pretty easy. An elite wrestler, you take a guy like a Bo Nickel or a Daniel Cormier, teach them Jiu jitsu, they're going to Hamzat. Chamayev's the best example of that. You're going to. You teach a guy like that submissions, he already knows how to ragdoll people. So he has this ability to take everybody down and then on top of that he's going to break your neck. Like it's like that extra skill. I think wrestling is like the foundation. That's the one thing. Because then you can dictate whether the fight goes to the ground or stays up, you know. And then once you learn submissions, which is pretty easy for a wrestler to learn, it's pretty similar.

[B]

It's the same sport I used to wrestle. And it's like the cradle for the pin versus an armbar. Right.

[A]

In my opinion, Dar strokes, all these different things come from similar positions, but then stand up. You know, you have to have stand up today because every. I think, you know, I've been talking about this a lot. I don't think. I think you have a fight and there's five rounds, say, of a fight. If a guy's mounted on top of a guy at the end of the first round, I think the second round should start with that guy mounted on top of you. I don't think they should start standing up because it doesn't make any sense. Like, you didn't earn that standup. That guy took you down, he got on top of you. He's mounted on you. You're about to get fucked up, and then all of a sudden, you have a reprieve from the governor because the round is over. And now you're standing up again. And if you're a striker, that's your world. But you didn't earn that position, Right? It's one fight. It's not five fights. It's one fight. So why should you have a beginning of every round where you're standing up?

[B]

Yeah, I agree. I agree with that.

[A]

If I could change the rules, that's the first rule that I would change. I would say whatever position you were in at the end of the round, that's where you start.

[B]

I completely agree with that. And I always feel like that it just fucks shit up. Yeah. You know what I mean? And then, you know, this doing Jiu jitsu is like, seconds matter, and this fight could turn around in seconds. But those seconds can't happen if we stop this early.

[A]

100%.

[B]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[A]

Well, the early days were wild, right? Because there was no time limit.

[B]

That's what I watched. The early days is my heyday. Like, I could not get enough. I was, you know, fight dark dummy for Hoist, for Sakuraba, who else? Oh, Hoist. So, okay, I'll tell you a quick story about Hoist. He. He comes out, we're doing jits with him, and I'm a new guy. So I'm like, hey, you could share my wall locker, right? And you got a wall locker and you got, like, your towel because the shower's down the hallway. You know what I mean? Like, I have my clothes, right? And then, so Hoist put his family pictures, and I didn't notice this, but they slowly did this. Him and my team ret tagged everything with, like, my last name and team numbers with Hoist, right? So they re tagged all my gear as Hoist, right? They. The Hoist put his Kids pictures up over mine, right? At one day, I'm in the. I'm in my locker, like, is this my locker? Like, what the. What the is going on? And I'm like, whose kids are these? Like. And then hoist is like, you know? Yes, you like my kids? And I'm like, oh, those are your kids. Like, no, that's cool, right? Like, years later, I'm in Iraq and I'm like, I gotta go for like, one of these surges into Fallujah with another squadron. And, like, their ops are major. Calls me by name. And it's like, I've been in Iraq like 30 seconds. These guys are calling me by name, like, what the. You know, and then he was like, we're getting your stuff. It's on. It's on the helicopter. You need to get on this little bird. We're leaving, like, 20 minutes. And literally I got on the little bird. They bring my kid over, I get my shit on, right? And they're like, yo, whose shit is a Royce? Is there a Royce? Royce? You know what I mean? And then like, my bag is one. It's fucking still tagged with Hoist. His name.

[A]

That's hilarious. Yeah, that's hilarious. So you started training martial arts in when you were in the military?

[B]

In the unit?

[A]

Yeah, in the unit. So did they have like, was it like technical training? Did they teach you? Did you. Did they have like, real instructors or how does it work?

[B]

Yeah, so in training, when you kind of make it to the unit, there's a hand to hand program. A lot of the hand to hand program is like, traditionally, like, you gotta cuff people, you know what I mean? Like, which is all Japanese wrist locks, which is a foundation for a lot of. Right. But you know, you learn that stuff like how if you have a weapon, how to like, approach somebody if they grab your weapon, what to do? So it was all like, weapon focused. Like more like self defense. But I think back then, in my day, right in the 90s, it was still, bro, come at me like this, you know what I mean? And you're like, why the fuck would I stand like this ever? Like, what the was I doing that got me here? You know what I mean? Like, so it was always some. Back then there was a lot of hocus pocus. So we kind of had our own training program. And then as my years, the training program got better because we started getting hoist. We started ground fighting. You know, I think the. The premise, everything they taught in my day when I was a student was like, you know, Weapons retention, Japanese wrist lock to get someone cuffed. You know, two man cuffing procedures, searching, and then like how to defend yourself if someone grabbed your weapon or if you went to the ground. Right, right.

[A]

Which is all stuff you have to know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But there wasn't a lot of like just one on one.

[B]

No, no, it's like, you know, you're in the. You're in the gym, they roll out the wrestling mat and it's like, okay, come at the guy like with your rifle and then, you know, a bunch of white belts basically, like out there around.

[A]

Basically does it. Was it like there. Was there a system, Like a training system?

[B]

Was there like there was a. There was a system back then and the system was really, I think kind of four things without really knowing what they did back then. I went through the training, but I don't really know what the hand. The hand was back then until later when I was like in the hand to hand program or fighting with guys, you know what I mean? But I would say this back then, I'd say it was wrestling, it was Muay Thai. Right. It was a little bit of Japanese wrist locks and some Filipino martial arts.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

We had guys that would do the sticks. I know a little bit of the sticks. You know, like, first time I got smacked 37 fucking times around the head was another. This guy with his dicks, it was like, what the fuck was that? Like, how do these sticks move so fucking fast?

[A]

Dudes are good with that, are very impressive.

[B]

Yeah, super impressed. So I think that was really the foundation, like. And, you know, maybe like some, I don't know, like dirty boxing. I would kind of imagine, you know what I mean? Yeah. Clinching, punching, stuff like that.

[A]

Did. How did the Filipinos develop that stick fighting? Like, where did that come from?

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

Weird, Weird. Like one culture is known for their stick fighting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Kind of odd.

[B]

Yeah. But I love all that, that this stick fighting, what do they call it? Pontukin or whatever the dirty boxing they do, like all very. Make your opponent off balance at the same time. You can strike or if they are trying to strike, you knock them off balance stuff.

[A]

I'm just, I've always been so fascinated how different cultures have a completely different approach to fighting. Like the ties figured out the best way to fight. Stand up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Kick the shit out of the legs.

[B]

Yeah. Fucking kick his leg, elbow the fuck.

[A]

Out of people in the clinch. Plum knees. Yeah, the knees to the body, knees to the face. They figured out striking in a way that nobody else had it's weird that they did it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think it's just because of the competition all the time and the betting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because, like, they were fighting so often and they had so much money on the line for fighting that they developed a very pragmatic way of fight. Because they were fighting all the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

As opposed to, like, karate or any of the things. I don't think they were really fighting as much.

[B]

Well, we don't. I mean, think about America. Like, prior to Mike Tyson, boxing was kind of like Americans. If they would have seen, like, Hickson Gracie, you know, if Hickson Gracie would have been popular in, like, the 70s or 60s, people have been like, well, that's not civilized fighting. You know what I mean? Like, right, get your dukes up. This has got to be fair. You know what I mean? Americans have a very fair sense of what fighting should be like. Americans hate, like, dirty fighting, but all Muay Thai and Kali and all that, that was all seen. Those guys would come from Asia, fight around the States here, fucking kick everyone's ass, and people still weren't attracted to it.

[A]

Did you ever see there's one fight that's like one of the most important fights in kickboxing where Rick Rufus, who is like the king of American style kickboxing, like above the waist kickboxing, fought this Thai guy. I forget how. I can't pronounce the guy's name correctly, so I don't want to butcher it, but this. And Rick Rufus was fucking him up in the beginning. He dropped him. He had him in real trouble. Rick Rufus was really good, but this dude just kept chopping at the legs, chopping at the legs. And by the end of the fight, Rick's in a heap on the ground. And his own brother, Duke Rufus, who became a world Muay Thai champion himself later and became one of the best trainers in mma. So this is the fight. What happened? Oh, that's how his name. Good luck saying that one. But. Oh, this is not. This is a different. This is like a compilation of a bunch of different people fighting. That's not. This is it, the fight that changed kickboxing. So this. This fight. Well, this isn't it. This is a bunch of other good. Go into the fight itself.

[B]

No, just go. Chuck Norris. I seen Chuck in there was legit. Chuck was very.

[A]

So this is the fight. So in the beginning, Rick Rufus, who's like this above the weight, kicks. He drops him in the left hand. Rick was really good, man. He was really good, but they just didn't know Anything about the leg kicks. And after the fight, like, his brother Duke was like, well, I don't think there's any skill involved in kicking the legs. And he was saying that. Look, he drops him again. So he dropped him two times. Look like Rick is fucking him up. But this Thai guy just. He's probably had 200 fights. Yeah, he just keeps kicking at the legs. And after a while, Rick's legs are just dead. I mean, the tie guys getting lit up, but Rick became an unbelievable leg kicker himself after this. But no one knew. They just didn't know. So as the fight goes on, and this is like a huge, like, challenge match to see. Look, he drops him with this leg kick. After a while, Rick just can't move anymore. And this dude ain't even running away. Well, no, he's. His legs are dead right now, and he's just getting. Every time this ties kicking him, he can barely walk. And at the end of the fight, he winds up in a heap because he just doesn't know. You know, he doesn't know yet. And he's getting dumped, too. Like, look at these fucking low kicks. Devastating low kicks. And at the end of the fight, he's just in a heap on the ground.

[B]

Yeah, his kick had no power there.

[A]

But the thing is, like, Rick was really fucking good back in the day. So when you that. That didn't show the end of the fight, but at the end of the fight, he just. He brutalized him with just low kicks. The ties had figured something out that nobody had figured out. And it's kind of shocking that this one area of the world, like this one small island, that they figured it out. Yeah, it's kind of crazy.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

Yeah, I love it, too. It's just. And then Brazilian jiu jitsu, right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Until, you know, Maeda comes to Brazil in, like, the 1930s or some, whatever that. Whenever that was. And then they go. The Brazilians are like, huh, I think we can fix this. And they start, like, you know, because Elio was a small guy and Helio is like, going, well, what about if we just did it this way with leverage and just instead of using strength, we use technique and changed everything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Changed martial arts forever.

[B]

Yeah. I love it. I love wild. Yeah. I'll tell you, that leg kick is my go to in Iraq and Afghanistan. You know what I mean? Like, I get about this far from you. This is good distance for me. You can't grab my weapons. But what I would do is I'd throw the Thai leg Kick, but I wouldn't aim for the middle of the thigh. I don't care about your pain. I'd hit your knee, and either it's going to break your knee, or it's going. Going to knock you out of your little slippers. And then I just stand on your neck.

[A]

Yeah. It's. It's one of the most effective things you could do. You take away someone's base.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, you know, it's a crazy thing about MMA is now we're learning that kicking in the calf is actually even more effective than kicking in the thigh.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because there's no meat there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Slam a shin into that, and all of a sudden your foot goes floppy. It doesn't work anymore. Your leg's useless. It's crazy. And we've figured that out over the last five or six years, which is really nuts. Like, Michael Bisping, who was a world champion, told me he went his whole career without ever getting kicked in the calf.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And that was like, you know, four, four or five years ago, he was a world champion and went his entire career without getting kicked in the calf. Nuts. It's nuts. It's like it's constantly changing and evolving.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, people find something that works and like, oh, what about this?

[B]

I love that. It's always evolving, too.

[A]

Well, martial arts have evolved more in the last 30 years than they have in the last 30,000 years.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

That's a fact. Yeah, that's a fact. That's kind of shocking. You think about how long people have been fighting.

[B]

I don't know. You know, I see this. You know, I shoot every day. I teach people to shoot all over the country, all the time. Right. And it's kind of interesting to me that I don't think it works like that. You know what I mean? Like, you would. You would think people would have been doing this. Right. The whole time, but they're. There's, like, a lot of myth involved, and. And it gets watered down over time, I think, a lot of times. Even in shooting. Yeah.

[A]

Like, what are the myths in shooting?

[B]

Oh, so many man. Like, do we got the time? I shred this. The nra. I go to. I speak at the NRA shows. Like, the NRA hires me. I speak at all. The NRA show. This year, I actually got roofied in Dallas at the NRA show. Yeah. No.

[A]

Do you know who did it?

[B]

So is. This is crazy, right? But okay, I have an assistant, right? I don't know. She's like, 30, blonde girl, pretty girl. Her and her Husband are. Are with me. And I'm with, like, the Surefire representative, like, yo, sorry, we got you roofied, by the way. And then, like, some other guys, right? And we get done with the show and we just go have a drink or two, and we're going into, like, the hotel restaurant to eat a nice steak dinner, you know what I mean? So we get around to drinks, and it was like, well, old fashions is what it was. Well, old fashions. And my assistant's like, I sit next to her. She's like, I just can't drink anymore. You know what I mean? Like, these are horrible old fashions. I just can't. I just can't drink these anymore. And it was like, hey, we'll be at dinner in a minute. They got good booze at the good restaurant. We'll get anything you want, right? So she's like, okay. So I was like, here, I'll take it. So I held my cup up, and then I kind of held my cup up. The Surefire guy, her husband, and she kind of fills us all up equally. And so.

[A]

So somebody was trying to roofie her.

[B]

Her, right? So, yeah, this is in Dallas, right? So, okay, so we go to dinner. I don't. I get this way. Goo Burger is delicious. I'm kind of buzzed. I'm drinking good whiskey, you know what I mean? We're having a good time, right? I love good food, right? So I'm having a great time. Her husband's at the end of the table, and all of a sudden. And this is like within 45 minutes of that drink, which I also didn't know, right? So his head hits the table. Boom. And I look at him and I'm like, like, like, is he okay? And then, like, hey, you know how, like, you know them blow up pools where you pull down the side and the water just kind of glides over the top? Yo, his mouth opens and it was just like, across the table, you know what I mean? And I was like. I pushed away from the table, like, so it didn't leak on me. And I was like, we gotta go. You know what I mean? It's time to leave. You know what I mean? I'll get the check by the front door or something. You know what I mean?

[A]

But it's.

[B]

We definitely.

[A]

It's time and you are feeling it yet.

[B]

No, I wasn't. I didn't. I didn't feel anything yet, right? So, okay, so it was like, I never seen this happen to this guy ever, right? So he. This isn't Him. So it's kind of weird, right? So my assistant's like, hey, I'll take him up to the room. I was like, okay, well, we're gonna go have a few more drinks at the bar, right? So me and the other guy go to the bar. She goes up to her room, right? I don't know any of this is happening. But as soon as they get to the room, head of securities knocking on the door. So my assistant answers. And then I guess the guy was like, is. Is there a guy that threw up in the restaurant here? And she's like, he's in the bathtub naked right now, like. And then the head of security, like, hey, we watched the tapes. Ton of info comes out, right?

[A]

So I don't know who did it.

[B]

I think so. But, like.

[A]

And then did it tell you?

[B]

No, no, no. They. They talked to my assistant and then her husband, right? Like, so I go down to the bar, right? I put my credit card on the bar, and, like, I fucking party till all hours of the night, yo. What did I learn? If you roofie me, like, you're gonna wait six hours to get that booty. Because once you give me drugs, I want to party, baby. You know what I mean? Like, so, like, I don't know what. The surefire guy peters out on me, you know? I'm probably just in the lobby alone. Like, it's up. I don't know.

[A]

Do you know what was in it?

[B]

No, it was just something.

[A]

It wasn't necessarily roofy roof and all. Yeah, probably something.

[B]

I don't know what it was. Yeah. So the next day, we check out, right? Shows over, we check out. So my assistant's knocking on my door, right? And I'm a get up early guy. I do my cardio, you know? So I'm normally up early, and she's knocking on my door, right? So I answer my door, and I'm like, thinking, the. Is she doing here so early, right? Both of them, her and her husband. And she's like, you know, I'm glad you're okay. And I'm like, what? You know what I mean? And she's like, what? She's looking at me. She's like, not you too. And I'm like, me, too what? You know what I mean? I'm kind of foggy, right? It was like fucking. It was. Checkout is after checkout time. I slept till like, fucking one in the afternoon. The next day, I had the worst fucking hangover ever. Like, if that was roofies do the hangover, I understand. Why people don't do them recreationally, you know what I mean? Like, I had the worst fucking hangover.

[A]

So she's like, does anybody get tested to find out what it is?

[B]

No. They had to fly home that afternoon. They got me in my sprinter van. I had to go do a class, like, somewhere else. I was on the fucking road. So, like, she got me. They drove me to breakfast, got me something to eat. Kind of sobered me up a little bit, right? And then they went to the airport, dropped me off, and I drove somewhere else in Texas. I was working here. And then, you know, the head of security talked to her and her husband, called them a couple days later, check on them, make sure they were okay. But long story short is we had a round of drinks that none of us ordered come to our table, and they came to our table from the same waitress that we had. You know what I mean? So somehow we got around to drinks and we even paid for them. And when I got the bill, like, I don't know, we had two drinks and we were getting ready to go, and then the. A third one came. And I just figured someone. One of these, someone ordered it. You know what I mean? It'll be fine. And then I just paid for it all. Did not even think of it.

[A]

And so did the security know who roofied you?

[B]

I think so. They didn't tell you? I think they told my assistant. I think they.

[A]

And you didn't ask her?

[B]

No, I didn't care. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, I want to know.

[B]

I think it was like a targeted thing where they just rob you. Oh. You know what I'm saying? I. Like, I don't think. I mean. All right, first and foremost, I think everyone's trying to burgle booty holes this day and age, and you gotta keep your safe. So there's that. Right. But I also think, like. I think it was like, they know all these people are in for these conventions, so they try to drug somebody and just rob them. Just. You could have just took my. I had a. Handed you my wallet, you know, mean it would. There's not a crime.

[A]

He handed to a buddy of mine recently.

[B]

Oh, yeah?

[A]

Yeah. He met this girl and they go back to his place, and then he wakes up the next day and he's robbed. Stole his Rolex, stole $25,000 in cash from him. But he got tested and he had. I think it was Xanax. She piled a bunch of Xanax into his drink, and he was just out, didn't know what the happened. Came to the club afterwards. He was like, all up. Came to the comedy club up. He's a comedian. Hans Kim. Shout out to Hans. Hilarious guy. So he's like, something happened. I don't know what happened. We were like, hey, man, go to fucking go get tested right now while it's still in your system. So he goes and gets his hair tested. And they. They found that there's roofies in him.

[B]

Damn. I didn't even know you could be tested.

[A]

Yeah, you could be tested.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, but you. There's like a time period. If you test hair, it'll like last a little longer. And I think he waited a day. So they had to test hair, but within a certain time period, they could test you and find what it is. And they said, did you take any Xanax? He's like, no. And like, you have a lot of Xanax in your system. And apparently that's one of the things that they give people to rob them.

[B]

Dang. Does it cause a hangover?

[A]

I'm sure it's got to, like, if.

[B]

You'Re going to drug me, it's going.

[A]

To whack you out.

[B]

Drug me. Yo, if you're going to rob me, like, I just want to say this to the world. If you're going to rob me, like, give me the non hangover. You're getting my.

[A]

Anyway, what is the non hangover?

[B]

I don't know. Whatever that is. You know more about drugs than me. I was in the army my whole life.

[A]

I don't think it exists.

[B]

Damn it, Joe.

[A]

I think it's prescription stuff or ghb. I know a lot of people give people ghb.

[B]

I've heard of that.

[A]

That just gets you, like you don't know what the fuck's going on.

[B]

I've heard of that.

[A]

I've heard of people getting roofied that way. If I was a woman, I'd be fucking terrified to accept a drink from anybody.

[B]

Fuck.

[A]

Dudes are. I've talked to so many ladies that have had their alcohol drug by someone. Women go to bars, they keep their fucking hand over their drink all the time, even when they're turning around and looking away because they just never know some guy just dropped something in there real quick. Next thing you know, you're going home with them. You don't even know where you are.

[B]

I had a buddy, he doesn't even drink. Like, someone convinced them to have, like a glass of wine. Small town, North Carolina. And like, the cops pulled him over, like, you know, not far down the road and he was like, I don't know what's going on, but I can't feel my hands, you know what I mean? Like, and he's like, he's just a regular guy, you know? And they brought him back to the station and someone had put, I think it was a little bit of fentanyl or some shit in the wine. And like he, he left and he said he felt fine and he was driving. He said, like, I don't feel right. Even though, like, he doesn't really. He had one glass of wine. Like he might. He doesn't even drink, you know, I don't even know why he had a glass of wine. Someone probably talked him into it, you know what I mean? He probably didn't even finish it. But he's like, he, you know, he said he was lucky, he felt lucky.

[A]

Non human people out there, I'm telling you.

[B]

That's one of the things I wanted to talk about today is like, there's real evil in the world. And in Iraq, we're not Afghanistan. You go into these up places where they've been like, I don't know, raping, beheading people, tribal forever. Forever. Like there was buildings I didn't even want to go in. Like you, you'd go and you'd be like, every fucking hair on my body just be standing up and I mean at the doorway and be like, I don't even want to clear this building. You know what I mean? And I don't know why, but I know there's old evil in this.

[A]

Evil's real. Real.

[B]

It's real.

[A]

And if you've never experienced it, you can walk around delusional, think, oh, come on, it's real.

[B]

You can feel it. Like when I'm around real evil. Only two places I felt real evil in my life is Gettysburg and in Iraq. Yeah, I felt that. Like I did because I felt evil before and it like makes me want to throw up. It hurts my stomach.

[A]

I mean, in the area of Gettysburg.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. On the battlefield.

[A]

Stepfather felt the same thing and he's not woo woo at all. He's like a real straight edge guy, man. And then said it felt so creepy.

[B]

I was almost gonna. Me and. Me and my, my son were out there ghost hunting, right? And we were both gonna throw up and I didn't tell him, but like I had felt that feeling that you.

[A]

Said that about Gettysburg, because my stepdad's never said anything like that before. And he said just the feeling. It was so sad and creepy. And you just wanted to get out of there immediately.

[B]

Makes me want to throw up.

[A]

That I think places have memory. I really believe that.

[B]

Well, it's. I think it's energy, and I don't think it can be created or. You've talked to science guys, right? Energy don't go away, right?

[A]

Well, I think you just don't see it and you can't measure it, so you assume it's not there. But I think that's one of the reasons why when someone gets murdered in a house, they have to tell you about it, right? They have to. Because, like, people, they. They know. Like, there was JonBenet Ramsey's house when I lived in Boulder. I lived in Boulder for a while. We were looking at houses to buy. And there was this one house. It was, like, really cheap for the house. I was like, this is a nice house. They had changed the name of the street so they could try to sell this house because everybody knew that it was the house that JonBenet Ramsey had been killed in. They couldn't fucking sell the house. And we were, look, yeah, that house. We were looking at the house on, like, Zillow. We're like, oh, that's a beautiful house. Maybe we should go check out this house. And then we found out, like, oh, that's why they can't sell it. Like, oh, man. Like, they changed the name of the street to try to sell this house.

[B]

It's up. Should have just bulldozed it.

[A]

They should have bulldozed it. And then what do you do about the ground?

[B]

It's still there.

[A]

Would you want to live in a place where they bulldoze the house where a little girl are getting killed?

[B]

That not. Not even. Not even joking about it. I don't want to live there.

[A]

No. No one wants to live there. I don't even know what it. What it is now. I mean, I don't know if anybody ever bought it.

[B]

Yeah. I grew up in old houses in the Chicago area. You know what I mean? And, like, some of them houses were creepy for no reason and some weren't. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Like, yeah, yeah, there's something. There's something to that.

[B]

But, hey, I was. I was in Iraq and I was in one of them, like, you know, Udang C. Like, raped people. Them guys were evil.

[A]

You went to, like, their. Like their palace, that kind of all of them.

[B]

My. Yeah, those guys, I carried. I carried their bodies off an airplane and had a guard them until they got cleaned up by the Morgan DNA tested. But them guys, them palaces, like, they would pick up like 12 year olds off the street. They didn't feed them to dogs. The lions. We found them. So Uday had lions and the lions were. It's not funny, but I mean, it's kind of humorous, but I think it's funny. But the lions were like on the, the army side, the big army side. And they were inside this fence, right. And then the lions were like just lazy as. Didn't care about no army guys. And then one day I seen a lady and kids walk by and they're just behind chain link. And them lions went nuts. And I knew like only feeding them. Yeah, yeah, they were evil.

[A]

I read so many horrible stories about those guys that they would find a woman who was getting married. Married, and they would rape her and then feed her to their dogs.

[B]

Yeah. Or the carp outside the palaces. You know, them big lakes full of these giant carps that just eat bodies like you read about. Yeah. But so I was down in one of those one night just because like I could be. And I had my flashlight. Always been fascinated by ghost hunting, by the way. So I'm down there by myself, just exploring, you know what I mean? And like door slammed on me, you know what I mean? I was freaked the out. Only one down there. You know what I mean? Like, freaked me the out, man. And the energy down in those like rape rooms or whatever, the. I don't know what the you call it, like they did bad there. It's just like, I don't know, like it, it, it like. You ever ride like a roller coaster and it like turns your. Turns your stomach? Yeah, that's how it feels to me in them rooms. I don't know what that is, but it makes me almost want to throw up. And the stronger it is, the more I feel like I'm going to throw grow up.

[A]

But those guys were such monsters. It's just so crazy that, that that story repeats itself over and over again. Like the sons of kings.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That grow up that way are always just super evil because they have unchecked power from the time they're a child.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I got. I gotta be honest. If I could clone myself and I'd had like a mini me right now, I would abuse man just to make sure he grows up right. I would raise him right. You know what I mean? Like, I don't. And when I say abuse him, I mean like force him to work hard. Yeah. Earn his. His whole life. I mean like. Yeah. I had a guy, like I had a. I don't know what he was. I was in the Middle east somewhere, and one of the guys asked me like, are American babies stupid? And I'm like, what? And he's like, are American babies stupid? And I'm like, why? And he's like, well, in America, like, there would be a fence at the edge of the cliff so the baby can't go over. In my country, like, the baby knows, don't go by the cliff. And I'm like, I don't know, like, fuck up.

[A]

I bet they don't. I bet the babies that don't know go off the cliff and those genes never propagate again.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That's the most harsh form of natural.

[B]

Selection, Darwinism right there.

[A]

The most harsh form of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No fucking. I mean, kids that grow up outside lock key kids. Like when I was a kid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He just left out of that. The house. Bye. Have fun. And you figure out who's the child molester.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You figure out who's a creep, who's. What's dangerous. Go. Don't go near the train tracks. You can't hear the train till it's too late.

[B]

Stay away from yourself.

[A]

The kid that gets hit. Yeah.

[B]

At the liquor store.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I did the same thing.

[A]

You learn about danger.

[B]

Yeah. I tell you, my. I lost. I got my first key. I was six. I lost it, like, the same day. My mom's yelling at me, and she's like, you know, what do you got to say for yourself? I was like, like, I still remember. It's like one of my oldest memories. It's like, I'm six.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she was just kind of like, yeah, I'm six. Like, I had it one day. Like, I never carried a key in my life. Like, of course I'm gonna this up, you know? And she was like, we can't afford all these keys. You know what I mean?

[A]

Right.

[B]

But at the same time, like, I'm six, you know? So we ended up having to hide it somewhere. And then, you know, because my brother wasn't good at keys either.

[A]

You know, it's up that I don't want that to happen to my kids. Like, I don't want Mike. I mean, my life was nothing like your life, but I was definitely, like, let loose in the world, you know, and not really given any guidance.

[B]

Ton of ton of let loose with no guidance.

[A]

But that's how you make a person like you. Like, a person like you doesn't come from a home that has, like, you know, you're coddled you're taken care of. You're always protected. Like, the only way you make, like, a legit beast of a man is that that man has to go through a lot of. Through their life and then they come out on the other end hard.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's the only way.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You don't. You know, I've never met, like, a world champion fighter that came from, like, the happiest of childhoods. It just doesn't exist.

[B]

I don't. A lot of. A lot of unit or Special Forces or Ranger guys. Like, I used to call it the fatherless. You know what I mean? And it works kind of two ways. Either you had a dad, but he worked and he came home and he passed out and he woke up and he was gone before you got up. And when you got home, he was asleep on the couch or already out for the night because he fucking works fucking a lot of hours. Or you kind of just didn't have a dad. You know what I mean?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Those people make Special Forces soldiers just like, you know, dad issues for a chick or put her on a pole. Those same issues in a dude puts them in Special Forces, I think. And I'll take the fatherless all day long.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, for sure.

[A]

Well, those are the world champions. I mean, that's Mike Tyson. Right. You know, he was 13 years old, no family.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Gets adopted by a guy who's a psychologist, who's a, you know, a hypnotist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And is a great boxing coach and teaches him to become this elite fighter. And you. I kind of think that you don't become that guy unless you're dealing with all sorts of unspeakable tragedy and horrors.

[B]

Right.

[A]

When you're a child.

[B]

Well, you wouldn't have that kind of focus without that.

[A]

Right. You wouldn't have that monster inside of you. Like, you have to. That monster has to grow because it needs to be there.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah, Yeah.

[B]

I would say, like. And I don't know what the ratio is, but I would say, like, one out of every 100 or 300 is like the high school quarterback who married the prom king.

[A]

Very rare.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Very rare.

[B]

I think I only knew one of those guys.

[A]

Yeah. Those guys. I bet if you dig into their childhood, their dad was probably a little abusive.

[B]

Yeah. Or their mom or brother. Yeah. Something.

[A]

There's another thing. Older brothers. It's like, you want to find the young brother, brother. The young brother's the beast.

[B]

I'm the little brother.

[A]

That's it. The young brother gets beat up by the Older brother and just constantly in battle his whole life. Like, so many fighters, the best fighters have, like. Like, Chris Weidman's got a great story like that.

[B]

Well, I mean, think about this. If you had to fight your bigger brother off your whole life, you would be good at jitsu. Why? Because you understand leverage. You understand patience. Wait for the move.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Take some punishment, move later. You know the deal.

[A]

You're also accustomed to being in battle all the time with your bro. Brother, right? Yeah.

[B]

Hickson was a little brother to holes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, Same thing.

[A]

Yeah. And Horian. Yeah. Hickson is. He's such a unique guy because he was like, the first guy that figured out, like, that physical strength, yoga, all the gymnastic, natural stuff that he did. Flexibility, breathing, like. Yeah. He was like a physical specimen on top of being super technical.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, like, both things.

[B]

Yeah, he had it all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Way before people knew.

[A]

Way before.

[B]

Like, he. He knew the winning mindset and how to keep that mental edge with all the other things. And the fighting was just something that he grew up to do, I think. In my opinion. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. He had that samurai mindset.

[B]

Yeah. I'm telling you, I think he. Like, I talked to a lot of people. I know some legendary guys from the Army. Right. When he talks, it's like this weird time vortex. You ever talked to him? Like, seriously?

[A]

Yeah, I've had a couple of podcasts with him.

[B]

Wow. Like, it's incredible.

[A]

You know, I went over his house once in, like, 2000, and him and his son, and we were watching Coliseum. So Coliseum was, like, the last time he fought, when he fought Funago, and we were watching all the different fights, he had a tape of it, and we were watching it, and he was breaking down all the things that all these guys were doing wrong. It was such a fascinating education. Yeah, he's like, there's too much space. You start here, there's too much space. And he goes. He had this philosophy.

[B]

Good accent, by the way.

[A]

If he goes, we started a neutral point. We started a neutral point. If I get to one, I'm not going back to zero. I'm going one to two, to three to checkmate. He goes, I'm not going backwards. He goes, these guys, they lose position, they go for here, go for there. All this extra space. And he was, like, breaking it down while we're watching the fights. It was such an education.

[B]

Love that.

[A]

It was fucking amazing. It was amazing.

[B]

Yeah. He's a. He's a legend.

[A]

Oh, man. Like, one of the great legends. Of martial arts. You know, if you, like, go into the history of martial arts, Hicks and Gracie will go down is, you know, if there's a Mount Rushmore of martial arts legends, him and Hoist are right up there.

[B]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[A]

And Hoist will tell you, like, Hickson, he goes, my brother was a hundred times better than me.

[B]

Yeah, well, when Hoist used to come to us, he would tell us straight up, I'm not the family fighter.

[A]

Yeah, our.

[B]

You know, and I think what he told us back then was like, I don't know, Hickson was Pride contracts, UFC was different. Couldn't figure it out. That's why Hoist even fought. Right. I. I thought that was kind of the deal back then, but I don't. That's a long time ago.

[A]

There was a bunch of different thoughts on it. You know, Hoist jokes around, he goes, he goes, look how beautiful I am. That's why they wanted me. But it was also because Hixon was very physically dominant. And the idea was like, let's have this guy that doesn't look physically impressive. To show Jiu jitsu. To show the power of Jiu jitsu. But if that doesn't work, then we bring in Hixon. But obviously I didn't know that Hoist beat everybody. And then Hixon went over to do Japan Valley tudo in like 90, I think it was.

[B]

I used to love all those. The valet Tudos, Pride, I thought that was the best.

[A]

Oh, the great. The golden era of martial arts. Because when everybody was learning. Yeah, like, holy. There's so much out there.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. I loved every minute.

[A]

And then Fedor Emelianenko comes on the scene.

[B]

He's just like, Fedor is my favorite.

[A]

One of the all time greats. He's another one. I mean, if there's an. The greatest heavyweight of all time, you have to. He's got to be in the conversation.

[B]

I feel like back in the day we'd be like, we'd be talking about fighting and it'd be like, man, I wonder if anyone's ever like, done this from like the mount. Yeah. Fedor won like six fights like that. And then like, I wonder if anyone's ever done like something like this. And like, well, Fedor won his last fight just like that. And you're just like this guy, like.

[A]

You know, in his prime, he was a monster.

[B]

Yeah, I agree.

[A]

And so stoic, like his expression never changed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He gets head kicked. He gets suplexed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, nothing.

[B]

It's like no one's home in there. You know what I mean?

[A]

Just. Just didn't register. He was just a machine. Machine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I loved him, and I liked when he. I seen an interview one time. Remember his brother Alexander?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

He was like, alexander is better than me if he just wouldn't party so much.

[A]

Yeah, he was an animal.

[B]

And I was just thinking, Fedor saying his brother's better than him. You know what I mean?

[A]

Well, his brother was bigger and taller and was a nasty striker, man. His brother was a vicious striker.

[B]

Had good kicks, too.

[A]

Oh, my God, he was good, man. Yeah, but that was. That was the days where, you know, everyone was just kind of figuring out what worked and what didn't work.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You had Vanderlei, the axel. I love it.

[A]

It was also a time where everybody was juicy. Yeah, the. The whole organization was like, I had a friend who was going to fight over there, and he was 170 pounds, and they said, no, we want you to fight at 185. Go do steroids. Like, go do steroids.

[B]

He like, what the.

[A]

He's like, they're telling us to do steroids. When Enson was on the podcast, he told me in the contract, it said, like, in capital letters, we do not test for steroids. They're like, go have fun.

[B]

Come back yoked up.

[A]

Come back juicy. Yeah, everybody was juicy back then because it was the wild days. It was like the wild west, right? They just wanted the best, most exciting fights possible.

[B]

I think that's what people want now. Oh, yeah.

[A]

I mean, like, there's a real argument.

[B]

I don't think the fans give a fuck about drug testing. You know, I don't think. Look, and I think this is for all, like, the Olympics. I get it. But the NFL, like, seriously, why you even. Why?

[A]

What do you want the sport to suck? Like baseball? That was the thing when they were doing, like, Mark McGuire and all that. And. Yeah, Sammy Sosa. Why are you testing these guys? It's the most exciting thing is to hit a home run. These guys are doing something that makes them better at hitting home runs. Everybody should do that thing, whatever the that is.

[B]

Think about how much more money that bring those organizations.

[A]

Yeah, but there was this thing back then that it was cheating, but what it really is is science. Like, they figure out there's a way where you recover more, you get stronger, you get faster. Like, hey, do that, guys. And by the way, everybody else is doing it, too. They're just, like, hiding it in some sort of a weird way. You know, they're just masking it and taking weird stuff. And there was, you know, that BALCO scandal where they're all taking this stuff called the Clear.

[B]

So they never even heard of that.

[A]

You never heard of that?

[B]

No. I don't know.

[A]

I had that guy, Victor Conte on the podcast who created the Clear and what he. What he's a scientist and what he did is he. BALCO Labs, they figured out that when they're testing, they're testing for very specific metabolites. So they took steroids and then they changed it slightly so that it didn't show up in the test. And they're giving them the stuff and they would all pass Clear. And they were all just monsters. Like Barry Bonds, he was a monster. I met Barry Bonds in 1994. I was on this television show called Hardball. And Barry Bonds was, you know, he was still a major league player, big time player.

[B]

Famous. He's famous.

[A]

A regular guy. Like he looked like a regular athlete. And then he started getting juicy and then years later he gained like 60 pounds. It was just gigantic smashing home runs. Like that would be good. Like, you should keep doing that, whatever you're doing.

[B]

I think that's all sports. Yo, jump as high as you can. Take your gear. Jump high, run far, smash each other. Let's go.

[A]

Well, that's the Enhanced Games. You know, the Enhanced Games doing that, they're developing this whole protocol right now. And the Enhanced Game is going to let people do whatever the fuck they want that works. And their idea is we are going to develop the best athletes in every discipline and then we're going to give them a lot of money and we're going to like, fuck the Olympics. The Olympics is a giant scam because the Olympics, the athletes don't make any money. And NBC and all these broadcast networks and the ioc, they're making billions of dollars off the backs of these athletes. Hard work. And no one is going to see them. They're going to see the athletes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I mean, the athletes aren't even compensated. It's a crazy scam. Scam. It really is. Because it's not like. No. If no one made any money, including the networks, including the ioc. Great, great.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's not the case. Yeah, someone's making a ton of money. But it's not the people that are putting in the hard work. It's the people that are pointing cameras at them. Yeah, it's the dumbest thing of all time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So the Enhanced Games is like, let's throw out the drug testing. Let's encourage people to do whatever the. That works, works. And let's give them a lot of money. So, like, whoever wins whatever, they give them a million dollars. Yeah, and then you'll get like, the elite athletes will be like, well, why am I wasting my time competing for free? Maybe I blow out an ACL or herniated disc and my career's over and I don't have to show for it. Or I can do steroids and then win and. And have money for the rest of my life.

[B]

Yeah, I want to watch the steroid sports course. You know what I mean? The enhanced league or whatever it's called. Like, that sounds to me like the NFL is going away. I want to see the mountain hit another mountain. You know what I mean? Like, let's go.

[A]

If they just got. They told the NFL. Let's just say everybody get juicy. Those guys are already freaks.

[B]

They're already doing it, probably. You know what I mean? I mean, I only imagine. I don't know. But my two cents is like, you're doing it anyway. Just go with it the way I understand. Just don't talk about it.

[A]

They let them know when testing is happening.

[B]

And so then why even waste the money? You know what I mean? Like, phone it in. Let's just phone that in. You know what I mean? Like, yo, I took that drug test. Okay, click. Save some money for everybody.

[A]

The drug test should be multiple choice. Fill it out.

[B]

No, nothing. Yeah, the drug test should be. We're just kind of curious if you've had any success. And we want to know what works so we can recommend better stuff to people.

[A]

Right? But there's weird thing about, you know, protecting the athlete's health. Like, hey, face, they're playing football. If you really cared about their health, you would tell them, don't play football.

[B]

So true.

[A]

There's no way you care about their health. Yeah, there's no way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it just doesn't make any sense.

[B]

I mean, there's inherent nature is a danger there. Concussions, knees, shoulders. Right.

[A]

Everything gets blown out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How about vaccines? How about you making them get vaccinated and they have heart attacks on the field? Does that make any sense? No, you don't care about their health. You're full of shit. Those guys didn't have to worry for a second about COVID They're elite athletes of the highest order. Do you really think that something that is literally only kills, like, 0.03% of the people who get it? And those people, or most of them have comorbidities you really think elite athletes of the highest order had to worry about that? Of course they didn't. It's all bullshit. You don't care about them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let them get juicy.

[B]

Yeah. Juice without. Get that gear. You know what I mean? Hey, let's take those piss cups and turn them into drink cups and serve them some whiskey in the locker room. Let's get this going. And I want more fighting in my sports, you know what I mean?

[A]

That's why I like hockey.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I love the last sport that allows fist fights normally in the middle of a sport.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's the only sport that allows the occasional fist fight.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is kind of crazy.

[B]

I live in North Carolina and there's a. There's like a little local hockey team at Bradford and like every. I go to a lot of hockey games because it's like, it was like seven bucks for like a long time. You know what I mean? And they'll blood on the ice on the Thanksgiving name and you know, they'll throw like, they'll. They'll have like a non league team come in and it's blood on the ice, man. These like the Southern Provisional Hockey League. Like, I love this.

[A]

It's just wild that that's the only sport where fist fighting is allowed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's kind of crazy because it's grandfather in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because it's basically bare knuckle boxing in the middle of a sport.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is real weird.

[B]

Yeah. Well, then you got soccer where like, you know, you rubbed elbows with the guy and he falls over and you're like, what the. You're faking it? Like, yeah, I have children. I know. The faker. Like, what the. Like, I'm a parent. You can't fool me.

[A]

Well, anybody could see it's the dumbest thing. Like a hand.

[B]

Yeah. They fall on the ground and they're.

[A]

Holding their side, they're holding their chest. It's so dumb. But it's also one of the reasons why it's not really accepted in America because you watch that flopping. We're like, come on, get up. This is so crazy.

[B]

Yeah, I totally agree.

[A]

Especially when people watch football.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're watching guys get way laid. 300 pound super athlete. They get up and shake it off.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they're right back on the field.

[B]

Yeah. The guys like adjust his helmet a little bit. You know what I mean? Take his mouthpiece out.

[A]

You good?

[B]

All right, move on.

[A]

I just started watching football literally this last year and you know, when I see guys collide I, I, I've had so many injuries, Knee surgeries and, and Jiu Jitsu injuries. I see guys get hit. I just, like, hold my knees, I hold my back, like, oh, it's the most brutal of all time. A guy who's 290 pounds is running full blast and colliding with you with 100 of his strength.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy, man. Yeah, I used to. When I was 38, I was a SAR major in the army. And, like, I don't know, hand to hand Jiu Jitsu kind of got boring for me. So, like, I was looking for other hobbies. I was at the PX and I seen like, the Fort Bragg rugby team practices, like, Tuesday at 6 or something. So I just went out there for something to do, man. And I'm gonna tell you. You think Jiu Jitsu people up, Go play rugby. Matter of fact, stay the away from r. Like, it's brutal. And, like, no helmets, no nothing, man. And like, when I was a kid, I don't know if I can say this, but we played Smear the Queer all the time. Like, I don't know what you call that, but that's what it was just called when we were kids. I come home, my shirt would be ripped. I'd get another beating because, like, you ripped another shirt. These are expensive, you know what I mean? But, like, it's my brothers anyway, right? Like, not like you bought me a shirt, but, man, it was like, crazy. My first practice, like, the ball sitting there, and then one of the coaches is like, grab the ball and run. So I just grabbed a ball and just ran everywhere. One of these little over. And then, like, guys are like, man, what college you play in? I was like, none. And I never played a rugby a day in my, you know, my first game, you know, was like in my third practice. You know what I mean? That's crazy. But in, in doing Jiu Jitsu and fighting people in Iraq every night, like, I thought rugby was kind of easy. The guy's running at me, and I just got to take him down double legs. And then I started getting more tackles than anyone in my coach. You know, they keep stats and be like, you had like, 80 tack. How do you do that? And it's like, double, double, double leg, takedown, single leg, maybe a trip.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? And, but. And then, like, one of the times, you know, one of the coaches was like, hey, will you teach us how? You know, how would you. How do you normally tackle? You get the most tackles and like double, single legs.

[A]

So you basically teach them wrestling?

[B]

I just taught wrestling.

[A]

Why don't they teach them that? That would seem to be like, I.

[B]

Bet the pro level are doing that. They have to like you have to. You. I mean, cuz, think about this. Like, I know a lot of linemen do like cali for hand speed and stuff like that. You know what I mean? Right. Cuz they got. They got to win the hand fight. So I know there's a lot of sports that use a lot of discipline, so I would imagine they would have to be having, you know, wrestling practice or takedown tackle practice. Right. I would imagine they're doing same as.

[A]

Everyone else, but just understanding leverage and how to manipulate body.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Well, there's no pads, so, you know, you can't come 30 miles an hour into this tackle. You might have to come in at 10 miles an hour, you know what I mean? Because you got no pads.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know.

[A]

Well, that's the argument against pads in football is that these guys, the only reason why they can play the way they are and collide with each other full blast. Because they have helmets and pads on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is totally true.

[B]

Yeah. I want thicker helmets and more collisions. Let's go. Come on.

[A]

It would be a wild game if you had american football and no pads. I mean, that's what they used to do way back. They had those little leather.

[B]

Yeah, you couldn't pay me to wear one of those. Get the out of here with that.

[A]

I wonder how many guys died playing that.

[B]

Imagine how many concussions, how many head.

[A]

To head collisions, running full blast. And then, you know, if you're samoan, you're like some big giant dude. You're gonna go head to head with guys because you know you're gonna win it.

[B]

Yeah. Fuck. Every time.

[A]

So you're just headbutting everybody?

[B]

Yeah. The army team has a lot of tongans. There's a fort Bragg. Tongans are paratroopers as people. I don't know how that works, but they are, man. They all play rugby. A buddy of mine was like, I was like, you know, you. How, you know when, when you start playing rugby? He was like, I was like three, you know, huge guy. Like, I knew, like, I knew I was doing pretty good at rugby. When the tongans were like, we'd pick. They'd pick teams and all the tongans would be like, we want big John. You can have the rest. And I'd be like, yeah, me and the tongans against some. Right. We'll crush the people but, like, they start playing with, like, a coconut.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

Imagine holding a coconut and just going down ribs on a coconut, like. And I'm like, why would you play with a coconut? And he was like, well, there was only one rugby ball on the island, and the bigger boys had it.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Like, yeah.

[B]

But, yeah, I played rugby for a while, and I stopped doing MMA to play rugby. But what I realized is rugby is way more injury prone and dangerous, so I kind of went back to jiu jitsu.

[A]

Oh, yeah. One on one is definitely. You can control a lot more of what's going on than a bunch of dudes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Colliding into each other.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I agree, man. So hard sport. I know. Rugby's awesome.

[A]

It is awesome. It's weird how it never took off in America. It's kind of strange, you know, because we love violence. You would imagine that rugby would be something that we would have adopted.

[B]

I think the only reason it's not popular is because of the time. Like, it's like soccer. Once it starts, it doesn't stop. Americans want to go take a piss and get another beer and come back, and then they want you.

[A]

Commercials.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, like, big thing about soccer and.

[B]

The game never stops.

[A]

Tough to sell commercials.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You can't stop the game.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Whereas football, you have a. You have half time, bro. You got a whole half hour.

[B]

Well, you ever see the apps that just show you the plays of football? A whole game's like 12 minutes of actual work. You know what I mean? 10 minutes. You know what I mean?

[A]

Soccer, those are running the entire 80 minutes.

[B]

Let's go. And it doesn't stop. You know, you have to be in.

[A]

Insane shape to play soccer. The cardio is just nuts. You're basically sprinting for the entire game.

[B]

I never played soccer, but. And I don't think I would enjoy it.

[A]

Well, we went to watch. They had the. They have a professional league here in Austin. And these dudes have these quarter horse legs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're like thin upper bodies and these giganti legs because they're just constantly doing plyometrics. They're just constantly sprinting and going side to side and left and right and fucking crazy cardio. But it's never going to sell in America if you can't have commercials.

[B]

Yeah. I think that's why rugby's not popular also.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, that makes sense. Maybe they just change the rules a little bit.

[B]

Right?

[A]

You know, give us a little break, everybody.

[B]

Kind of crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Here's what we're saying is Rugby starts and stops without a time. That's the same thing we want for you just said for mma. Yeah, right.

[A]

That's the problem with MMA too, right? You can't have a no time limit fight because how are you going to.

[B]

Get the next fight? At midnight or 10:00, dudes would kind.

[A]

Of fight to the death. Like, if you get the best of the best today, where they're so evenly matched and they're brawling, it could go.

[B]

Four hours, five hours, like, and then.

[A]

It would probably end your career. Like, at the end of it, you might not ever be spent again.

[B]

You'd be spent like you got one of those in you.

[A]

Right? Because there's a lot of guys, like there's a fight and you could point to that fight and say, he was never the same. Like Tony Ferguson, Justin Gaethje. A lot of people point to that fight. Justin Gaethje battered Tony Ferguson so bad. He was. He was undefeated up until that. Or maybe he lost a couple of times, but he was the boogeyman. Tony Ferguson was the scariest dude in the sport. And then one bad beating and he was kind of never the same again. Because one bad beating just changes everything. Yeah, he just never really recover.

[B]

Yeah, well, once you lose the mental edge, right, like, there's a little bit.

[A]

Of that, but there's also like a bad beating to the brain. Like, he got just. He got hit so many times in his head. A bad beating to the brain after a certain. I mean, no matter who you are, if you're sparring and if you're fighting, you're getting hit in the head, period. And so over the course of your career, you're already accumulating a certain amount of abuse and there's one fight that could break the camel's back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like in boxing, I always point to Meldrick Taylor, Julio Cesar Chavez, like, Meldrick Taylor was the man won the gold medal in the Olympics. And Chavez just methodically broke him down and then stopped him in the last round of their fight. Like, literally two seconds to go, Richard Steele stops the fight. And from then on, he was never the same. It just, he took so much of a beating in that fight that he was never the same again.

[B]

Yeah, I think that happens with soldiers, too. I've seen a lot of guys were like, we got mortar to rocket. And then next deployment, guy doesn't want to. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think there's a. There's a time where everybody says enough's enough, right?

[A]

Like, yeah.

[B]

Whether you want to or not. And then once you reach that point, like, coming back from that point, right, Become that mental champion again. It's long road.

[A]

Is there anything like you as a leader, when you see a guy who's maybe crossed over in that way, is there anything that you would do to try to bring him back, or is there nothing that can be done?

[B]

That's a great question. Define bring him back. Define what's wrong with them, right?

[A]

I guess a confidence thing or just being terrified. So, like, new fear being introduced. You know, a lot of guys think they're indestructible until they're not. And then all of a sudden, now this is a new factor.

[B]

Yeah, I used to teach tan jumping and bundle jumping in the military. And I don't know if you ever see my social media, but, like, I'm in the sky flying, and there's that huge barrel under me. I used to teach that. And what would happen is, if you had a bad jump, a, you know, bundle jump, you would have to cut away. And we called it the nightmare, right? And you got to end the nightmare, and this thing starts spinning you out of control. It'll be so many GS that, like, you'll pass out. The parachute will open later, right? You'll be fine. But we used to tell guys, right? Like, end that nightmare. Makes sense. Now you're the captain of the ship. So a guy would have to end this nightmare, however he ended the nightmare, right? And then what would happen is afterwards, we'd review the video, and I'd have to show a guy, right? And then we'd leave him in the classroom for a minute, and we tell him, hey, gather your emotions, whatever you need to do, and then get on the next plane.

[A]

Get right back on the horse.

[B]

Get back on that next plane.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? And guys would do that, you know what I mean? A lot more seals needed that time than, like, unit guys. Because unit guys like, yo, I'll fly this up your ass. We ain't gonna have no problems today, son. You know what I mean? I don't know. I think the difference is the look. The unit is always more mature than seals. It's an older culture. It's older guys, more experienced guys, more methodical guys, more planned out. So, like, in a lot of times, like, you know, younger guys, normally the seals, they'll have their jump numbers, but they're like their core, their what makes you, you. Confidence, dexterity, strength, health. Health. It ain't there yet. And they kind of freak out once in A while younger guys, it's a maturity thing, I think normally happens to the seals. Most unit guys are pretty mature and have been through so much by the time they get to the unit that like, you're probably unshakable by then.

[A]

But you see that in fights too. Like young undefeated guys who fight like a world champion who's like in their 30s and that guy breaks him down and then you see like they don't know what to do when things are going sideways and then mentally they fall apart.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. That's when the bad decisions will start, you know what I mean? And the reality is you got to snap your self out of that. You got to put your parachute back on and get the back on that airplane. I had plenty of those jumps. I've cut away more. I had a cutaway training for D day last year. Put my cut away. You can see how low I am and everything, you know what I mean? And I have procedures. I have another parachute. Like we're all going to die. Am I going to let it ruin my day kind of thing. Like, let's fucking move on, you know what I mean?

[A]

But how did you develop that mentality just over time?

[B]

I think that comes with what I just said is the core of a person. And I think this, what the army is really good at is developing this core, right? In this core, in this core, right? How do I develop your confidence? Well, I don't know. I couldn't even define confidence because I went to Chicago public school system. But I could tell you this. If I taught you to rally race car drive and you got pretty good at it, if I taught you jiu jitsu, eventually you're pretty good at it. I show you skydiving, eventually you're pretty good at it, right? Why is. Because every one of these things I showed you world class level and we brought world champions in to show you, right? Eventually you're going to gain confidence. It's the taking your daughter to karate or little kids jiu jitsu. They have confidence that other kids don't have, right? That's what you got to build. So it takes a lot of different skills and getting guys good at a lot of different skills to build that fucking unshakable core. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And it's, it's a matter of when do you introduce them to like extreme adversaries, Adversity. Do you build them up slowly?

[B]

Right, Right. And it has to be built slowly, Right. And then we used to Say this like aircraft training, right? Let's say you gotta breach an airplane, right. And you gotta climb a 20 foot ladder because these ain't low to the ground, right. And you're hanging on a ladder and you weigh 280 pounds in your. But you're on these lanterns with six other guys who all way the same as you or more. You gotta crack the door. Get the in this airplane right? Now, let's just say this is your first time and you crack that door the first time. And as an instructor, I know you're cracking the door. And as soon as you crack that door, I shoot you in the face. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And with a training round, Right. How embarrassing. Right? And then the reality is, yo, you just move ruin this forever.

[A]

How do you breach an airplane? What's the, what's a successful protocol for breaching an airplane?

[B]

Mechanical or explosive?

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

Sometimes we open doors, sometimes we blow doors. It depends. So which one you want to know about?

[A]

Okay, let's go with mechanical.

[B]

Yeah. Most, most doors have a lever on the outside that can be activated. And most doors, there's a certain way they open. Right. My team, I was always kind of like a primary door gu. And then there's a certain way doors open, there's latches. So all airplane doors open from the outside.

[A]

So. But once you breach it though, you're in a tube.

[B]

You're in.

[A]

And everybody knows where the door is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a very vulnerable position.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So what's the protocol for breaching a door when you're in a tube like that?

[B]

So what you have to do is breach as many doors as possible and get as many people in as possible as quick as possible. And everyone goes to positions, right? You got cover guys, you got runners, you got searchers. There's a lot of shit that needs to go on on these aircraft. Same with a big cruise liner. Right. So everybody's going to. Once the door is open, everyone's going to flood in and kind of like go to their places, you know what I'm saying?

[A]

Right. So you plan it out, you know where you're going to be and then you're still dealing with the chaos of you're in a tube and there's only one way in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And things are coming, coming at you no matter what. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's no clean way to do that?

[B]

Not even once? Not even once? No, no, man, you know what I mean?

[A]

What a crazy task.

[B]

I know. But the back to the point is if A guy cracks that door, any door, let's say it's your first time. I'm showing you, like, all right, Joe, I'm going to show you some, you know, close quarter battle. I'm going to show you how I clear a door. And then just joking around like you're about to go through a door and I shot you in the forehead. You would mentally never want to go through that door again, Right? So I have to build you up to where. Well, the first time you come through the door, why just let you come through the door, right? And then it builds from there.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

And then there's a point where it's like, well, this shooting through the crack of the airplane, Wait till I'm in this. I got two pistols on me. This motherfucker's going down. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So as you, as your confidence, your core, that core of a human being, like that core of an operator, right? As that, like becomes concrete, a guy's just unshakable, like, let's go. I don't give a what this position. I don't care, Like, I don't care if I die. Let's do this, you know?

[A]

And it's consistent training over and over.

[B]

And over and over and over.

[A]

Do you think that this is what's missing in the police force?

[B]

Oh, man, are you kidding me? First off, I work in a lot of police department departments. I love police. I support police all the time. It's a thankless job, I'll say that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I would say, like, think about this, Joe. If you trained police better, right? I work at a lot of police academies. I've helped a lot of police academies. They don't fail people anymore. I show them what I do, I train them to do what I do. They have great success with it. I would say this in a police academy, let's say it's six months long. Whatever they do, I don't know, probably about four months of that is fucking paperwork. And then, you know, you get a little hand to hand, you get a little driving, you get a little shooting, and then you learn what? Yeah, but I'm going to tell you this as a cop. You got the rest of your life to do that paperwork. And when you're in training, right, as soon as you like get your first arrest, your training officer is going to be like, don't write it that way. Hold on, let me see your paperwork. Like this. The paperwork could be OJT and they could spend them time, right, training these guys. And if. No, I'd also say this is if police were trained better. And truly uniform officers are probably the only guys like stopping crime as it happens. If we train those guys better, why would we need SWAT teams? Right?

[A]

You have SWAT team teams through the whole thing. Would everyone be SWAT?

[B]

Everyone could be SWAT. And if we got 10 and 10 of us come together. Yeah, we're our own SWAT team. We don't. And then we could operate independently. We could operate one or two. And like, I think police don't do the force multiplier thing. Like each guy is his own bastion of the law. You know what I mean? Like, I, I just think they kind of share injury. They don't do hand to hand. Right. Shooting could be dangerous. Right. And then most shooting is, you know, the instructor is God and you are stupid. That's how most training is. It's like basic training. And like no one learns well like that either. You know what I mean?

[A]

Right? Yeah. I, I'm always shocked when I see fat cops, like really fat cops. And I was like, how, how Your whole life is your body. Like your whole life is. You have to be able to physically defend yourself. You have weapons, you have, you know, the law and the uniform and bulletproof vest and all that, but your, your physical body is almost useless.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was at a football game the other day and there's this like obese cop, like enormous belly. I was like, this is disgusting. It's ridiculous.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You've let yourself get to this point where I know you can't even run. You can't, you can't, you can't last 30 seconds. All someone have to do is grab a hold of your arm that you would use to take your gun and control that arm, get you to the ground and you're.

[B]

I just baseball collar the back of their collar of their shirt. Where the are you going? You know, it's crazy. Well, yeah, look, okay, first off, I think also police should have different jobs like the army. So, okay, if you were £400, maybe you're the computer guy at the police force or a desk guy or you know what I mean? Like, Right. I don't think everyone needs to be the fittest human being ever. However, if you're on patrol, get the young 6 foot kids in there, man, you know what I mean? They can handle themselves. They're young, they're bigger than normal. Right. This is why a lot of trooper state troopers used to have like a 6 foot 6162 height requirement. Because a 6 foot 2 man can generally handle most people.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Especially a fit one who's trained.

[B]

Yeah. So I think the fit guys need to be on the force. I think. I think there's room for everybody. But I think with police, is your police officer or you're a detective, and then that's it. But really, you're always a cop versus, like, well, the army. Right? Okay. There's drone pilots. There's all these army jobs that kick the infantry kids out the door.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Why don't police kind of organize like that? And that way, like, the guys are going to run people down. Can run.

[A]

That's what drives me crazy about this whole defund the police horseshit. Like, are you crazy? You should be funding them more.

[B]

Crime is real.

[A]

Yeah, it's real. Evil's real.

[B]

Evil's real. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

To pretend it's not, well, that just means you haven't experienced it.

[B]

Yeah. You're living with blinders on.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I say. I agree. Agree. Yeah.

[A]

It's just bizarre that we expect these people to encounter danger and evil all day long their whole lives. Like, 25, 30 years.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And, you know, you don't. You don't train them properly, you don't fund them properly, and then they get disrespected by the public.

[B]

Oh, that's the worst. Well, the worst. I think the worst is when, like, the mayor or the police chief is, like, not supportive of all of the guys. And it's like, you think the guys have bad intent. You know what I mean? I get it. There might be bad apples or whatever. Everyone's got 10%. Say what you want.

[A]

But, like, how about Kamala Harris? When she was running for president, she was all about defund the police.

[B]

I don't know how that sells with any.

[A]

20, 19, 20, 20. I mean, it's crazy. It's a crazy thing to say. It really is a crazy thing to say.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, if we defunded the police, we'd be Mexico quicker than we thought.

[A]

Yeah, right, right.

[B]

Because the cartels would just drive over the border.

[A]

Yeah, that's real.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. What do you think about this idea of using special forces guys to fight.

[B]

The cartels first and foremost? Like, if you were like, yo, we're gonna wipe out a cartel tonight, I'd have been like, I'll load my frags extra careful. Like, like, let's go. Right. But the reality is, like, I know all my buddies are like, yeah, we'll them up in a night. We'll fucking you know, yo, let's back up a second here. The cartels have men, they own the ground. They have technicals, they have machine guns. They have everything an army has, right? And they've had decades to train waiting for them. This number two and number three, our government's compromised. So if you think they ain't going to know you're coming. You know what I mean? I think you're high. Jesus Christ. That's a terrible, terrifying thought.

[A]

So government's so compromised, the cartel is going to get the word out before.

[B]

Well, how are we going to. How? Look, we're not good at being sneaky. We're not the Israelis doing that pager, you know what I'm saying? Yo, that needs to be the model for every thing we do in the future.

[A]

No matter what you think about the Israelis going on in Gaza, that Paser shit was wild.

[B]

Which tells me America should go back to making its own fucking cell phones and its own. We shouldn't have our fucking comms made overseas at all in any way, shape or form, in my opinion.

[A]

No, I've been saying that forever. We should have our own cell phones.

[B]

Fuck.

[A]

And the fact that we're buying so much from China, especially after they banned Huawei, because they know that Huawei stuff was compromised and they're having third party input and be able to spy on people. People, it's fucking crazy.

[B]

Well, this is why we got to go back to making America like it used to be. We made our own shit. We use our own shit. We wouldn't have to worry about none of this.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's a very strange thing what's happening in this country where China is allowed to buy land that's near military bases. They supply cell phone towers. They put all these different. They sell us all this different shit and we don't really know. I mean, I know how many experts are investigating these fucking cell phone towers.

[B]

Fucking zero, I bet. Zero.

[A]

Mike Baker was on here and he was telling me about how around military bases, like China has installed their equipment in all these military bases, like at Formula one where we were, my buddy owns the track and they found these Chinese boxes they had attached to the wifi. So they were just scooping up everybody's data. They called in Homeland Security to have them remove it and investigate it.

[B]

Freaking racetrack.

[A]

A racetrack. But. But they knew everybody was going to be using this public WI fi. Probably no VPNs, probably no security. And these people are getting their, all their siphoned up. They're so sophisticated in how they've infiltrated, it's crazy.

[B]

And we just allow it to happen.

[A]

It's very strange. Cuz you can't buy in China if you think you're an American company. You're going to go over China and operate with autonomy. You're out of your mind. Yeah, you can't buy shit.

[B]

Yeah, they don't, they'll never let an American. No, they don't want A Chinese would never buy communication devices from America. No.

[A]

And they certainly would never let America buy farmland right next to their military bases. They'd be like, you. Yeah, we're like, sure, we'll sell it to you or you're gonna pay more. Oh boy. We'll take your money. It's weird. It's weird how goofy we are.

[B]

I know. And then like. Well, I think it's this, Joe. I think people don't realize how dangerous the rest of the world is and how like people are like plotting against us. And it's real out there. The world is a crazy place. I say this like, you don't know how safe you got it here and how great we got it here. You know what I mean? Like people don't know that because they don't never leave here. So they're stuck in their own bad attitude of like their own grind or whatever the they do. And like, look, I'm telling you, the world is fucking evil. People will fucking rape you, kill you, no one gives a fuck. Like, protect yourself all the time.

[A]

Well, you've been to parts of the world where you've seen this firsthand. And I think it's one of those things where if you don't see it, you don't believe it.

[B]

Yeah. I'll tell you one of the. I think the biggest thing I saw in Iraq, I think in maybe 2009 ish, there was like the most US soldiers ever been in Iraq, right? Like whatever the numbers around know, right? But when Iraq had the most soldiers it has ever had in Iraq is when Iraq was the safest. Think about it, you know what I mean? All we had to do was flood, put a tank under every overpass, in every neighborhood. There's a machine gun and 50 cal humvee, right? Like who's around? They're everywhere. And that's the safest Iraq ever was. I'm telling you, we have that here. And people don't understand that in general. So if you want to defund the police, man, we're. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like it's, it's a crazy but you know.

[A]

Do you know Evan? Evan Hafer?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, Evan was. We were in Elk camp and he was explaining some of the shit that he saw when he went from Iraq to Afghanistan. Just how he's like, afghanistan is so fucked that you can't even comprehend it until you're there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He goes, once you're there and you see it and you understand that, you become so cynical. You almost like, this culture is like unfixable. And he's like, most people just don't know that a place like that exists. That's so. Just down to its core. So fucked. We was talking about how these guys have these boys that they have as their, their harem.

[B]

The number nine boy.

[A]

What's that?

[B]

It's what the Egyptian Special Forces called him. The Number nine boy. He's the boy that gets.

[A]

Why number nine?

[B]

I don't know. That's what the Egyptian Special Forces called. But every Afghanistan village had a. What do they call it? The Chogi Boy or something like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But basically the 12 year old that.

[A]

Gets raped, he was saying these guys have harems and they would parade them down the street to show they have the most boys.

[B]

Yeah, this was. This happened to me on my. So I did a solo mission in Afghanistan. The book Kill bin Laden, you ever hear of it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I brought a hardback for you.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[B]

I'll sign it for you if you want, but it's hard to get a hardback. It's like, it's like it's got library in it. I had to buy it because, like people always ask me to sign it. I didn't write the book, I'm just in it. And people always ask me for a signature on it, right? So I bought like, I don't know, family or friends. Someone wanted one. I bought like a lot from a library. They didn't use them no more because they don't sell the hardbacks no more. But I went out on a mission alone in Afghanistan. I was gone 10 days. First, I think, first successful mission of the war. My opinion, I don't know. I don't know if there's other missions were more successful than mine, but. So I went out alone. And then I do the recon. I have the footage I need. I have every thing I need to launch a raid. We. I'm alone, we stop. I'm in a jingly truck, right? Like, I just, I'm in this truck. I hitchhiked basically from Jalalabad into the Tora Bora Mountains. I'm in a jingly truck with this driver.

[A]

What's a jingly truck?

[B]

You know where they like, it's like a. Like a six wheel, like dump truck, but like they hang the chains and bells and they paint it like 17 different bright colors and they. You never seen a jing. Yeah, Jingly truck? Cuz it jingles, man. Yeah.

[A]

What the is that?

[B]

Yeah, so I'm in one of these with this, right? He's like a logger. He's. He runs the valley. He's always in the area. But like, I don't know any of this. I can't even talk to the guy. I don't speak. You know what I mean? And then like, it's dangerous. I had to go through checkpoints. I had to act like a. To get through a checkpoint.

[A]

What did you do, man?

[B]

I was at a checkpoint and the dude was like, there's this. The checkpoints in Afghanistan are sketch, you know, they got like one piece of yarn across the road. You better stop or you will be shot. They don't give a about you. And like. So the car in front of us, I think the like this dude like stole bread from a little kid. You know what I mean? Little kid was eating a piece of bread. I just snatched it out of the car, yelled at the people. I thought he was going to shwack him because I didn't have anything to give him that he wanted. So I'm in this jingly truck comes next, AK in the chest. La la la la. I don't know what the he's saying, right? But I know if I speak English, I'm dead, so not an option. So he's like yelling at me, right? And then finally I just figured I'm gonna do like volume level 12 and just yell in his face, right? So I just get super close to his face, which he didn't like, and I'm like, no, no. And the guy's like, what the. And then like backed up and then motion, like motion, like get the through here with the ak.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So what you just on the spot, devised that.

[B]

Another one I had a. I picked up like a dirty towel or blanket off the floor and they took that, right? But what I learned being out alone, one of the things I learned is, you know, like, you watch the movies and like they pull out a wad cash and they're like, ah, wink. Get me across the border there, friend. Yo, these will just shoot you in the face and take everything you got. Don't whip that out. You're gonna get murdered. They're Just gonna take it all. I mean, they'll steal bread from a kid. You think they give a. About your life, you know what I mean? And they just throw you on the side of the road and let you rot. Like, they don't even care about the smell. Like, so, like, yeah, I had to act like a. Through this one. Man, they don't give a. Man, they don't give a.

[A]

You just figure that off the spot.

[B]

On the spot. Yeah. So we get. I get in a truck, we do the recon. I, like, had a. Literally, I had a cigarette bag. I think it's like Kent or some. I don't smoke, but, like, Kent cigarettes. I had a plastic bag with my sat phone. And anyway, I had to get a camera out, get it under my arm, and I kind of filmed the house, right? Us eyes on. And then I had to get the footage back. So we get to the end of the valley. It's dark. You know, there's no way we can get out of the valley before light. So we stop at this house, and the driver's like, you know, motion us in, right? It's the Muslim right of they can't turn you away, right? So we go to this house. We're in the room. Bunch of old grumpy men. They don't like me at all. And the driver. And the driver, I guess, goes there and crashes all the time when he's in the valley, right? So this is normal for him to be here. And then. So in that room, they had, like, this boy, and they drug him into another room. And you could hear yelling, and. And it's just like, what the do you. Do? I have everything I need to pull off the first successful mission in Afghanistan for the American government. Okay. Do I save this kid and compromise my mission, or do I just get the out of here and pull this off? And the reality is I had to look the other way, and I didn't like it, but. So I took my speed. You know, they give you speed. I took my speed, stayed up. Everyone went to bed. They fed me d. Opium tea. They tried to put me down. That's why I drank the tea anyway, knowing it was spiked. And then I took my speed to kind of counteract it. And then everyone went to bed. I laid there just wide awake. I just laid there wide awake. Like, I shut an eye. These are gonna cut my dick off and stick it in my mouth, because that seems like what they like to do. And then finally, the middle of the night, I got my ak. I stuck it in the driver's face. I drug them out to the truck, like right before son up and we left the valley. But like, you know, compromise the mission or save the kid. What do you want? What's it going to be, man? And then like, you just see this all over the place.

[A]

So you, you were like one of the first guys to do these singleton missions?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So when, when they set you off to do something like that, like, what's the protocol? Like, how do they. How do they even.

[B]

Good luck, you know what I mean? I don't know. Like, what do you think? What do they say to you? Well, back then it was that guy Dalton Fury, right? The guy who wrote Kil Bin Laden was my commander. And. Okay, it's a long story. I wrote. I'm writing a book. It's finished. Maybe someone would want to publish it. But it's called the Singleton and it's about my going out alone. But I was like, they see I was. I was at my base, I was in a Sadabad and we were just getting rocketed and mortared every day. It's kind of like mortar bait, whatever. And then we had like fucking zero lickies and Chewies. No candy, no beef jerky, no pop tarts, no nothing, right? And we're just sucking it up. And like, I gotta eat fucking. These Afghan cook us food. And like, I'm eating vegetables. I don't even know what the fuck that vegetable was. I don't even recognize it as a vegetable. You what? I mean, yeah, I know that's goat because it tastes horrible, but I don't know what the. I don't even know what the they cook me, you know what I mean? It's like. Anyway, so I go to my boss and I'm like, yo, hey, I want to go to the main base, right, and steal pogi from the chow hall.

[A]

What's pogie?

[B]

Pogie bait is a term for like, beef jerky, snacks, candy, cookies, like any kind of like, snack food, right? So. And my boss is like, yeah, if you. You schedule the airplanes, you make all the coordinations. You can go. I was like, bet, man. I scheduled the helicopter. Like, you don't know how resourceful I can be. You know what I mean? So I scheduled everything for the next night. And then like, I. I drove my. I had a red Toyota truck. I drove my Toyota truck in the back of the Chinook, right? So tight in there, you can't even get out. You got to just sit there, hope you ain't got a piss. They fly me to the main base. Land Dr. Driving the main base. Like, by this time, like, the army's, like, taken over, where, like, you gotta, like, salute. The army base in Afghanistan, like, two weeks ago, like a SAS guy lost a leg in a landmine, you know. But so I go to the base and then these. The commander sees me and. And he's with his sergeant major, another guy, and they're like, this is our guy right here. So, like, hey, what are you doing? And I'm, like, about to raid the chow hall. You know, like, what the it look like I'm doing? You know what I mean? Like, if it's one thing, I'm honest, right? So I was like, yeah, I'm getting pokey for the. For our base. Like, what's up? And they're like, hey, we got a mission for you. And I told them, hey, I'll do it, right? But you just got to tell my. Ask my boss if it's all right, because I didn't work for these guys. And they're like, okay, cool. They're in my squadron. But, like, not my direction. Boss, right? So they call my boss. My boss says, fine. And like, they sit me in this room, and they're like, hey, we want you to go out alone. And I'm like, okay. And they're like, explain everything to me. We want you to go out alone. Like, do you have any questions? And I was like, my. My only question was. And it wasn't a question, I looked the commander in the eye and I said, tell me you're going to cover my ass if something goes wrong. And he was like, oh, yeah, we'll cover you. Like, yo, you could have gave a fucking better man up with that answer. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? He gives this, like, weak answer, and I'm just thinking, well, man, you know what I mean now.

[A]

So what were they telling you they wanted you to do?

[B]

Go out alone. Us. Eyes on. Get footage of this guy at his house so we could launch. Right? Because the generals back then weren't in line with Bush's dead or alive, and they were. I believe the Pentagon was a bigger hindrance in the beginning of the war than they were. Than they were worth. But how so? Well, the general at the time that was in charge of us, our task force, right? And we're talking about tier one. Like, the guy in charge then had, like, two rules. Number one, you can leave the wire if you get USIS on target, okay?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And number two, no one leaves the wire. Well, how the are we going to do number one without. If we can't leave? Figure it out. So the commander I was. Because I was.

[A]

When. When you say leave the wire, what do you mean exactly?

[B]

Like go out hunting for bad guys. Leave your base. You know what I'm saying? Go out and.

[A]

But you can't leave your base.

[B]

But you can't leave the banks. But you got to get these eyes on to launch a target. So you got to get your recon guys out there doing reconnaissance because we need these reconnaissance and US eyes on to hit these targets. Okay. We want to launch reconnaissance. Yeah. No one needs a wire. That's kind of how it worked, man. Right. So the reason they used me is according to the Army. The army at every level is great at accountability. 100%. We need to know where everyone is at all times. Right. So when I flew to the other base, I was in transit, right. So they left me in transit for a week. So instead of saying I left the wire, I was just in transit because I was in transit anyway to go get pop Tarts.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So they lied to everybody, left me my stat. And I didn't know this at the time. I like. Like this could have mattered less to me. I learned later, you know. But they paperwork nutshelled the general and sent out reconnaissance. And that was me.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And then they came back with the eyes on and the general agreed to launch the mission and it was a success. And no one asked how did fuck did someone leave the wire? Because no one cared because we were successful. You know what I mean? Wow.

[A]

So what are you thinking when you're out there doing this? Like what. What is going through your head when you agree to do this?

[B]

Fuck figure it the fuck out. I don't fucking know. I'm not trying to have anything in my head right now.

[A]

What's crazy is like they just let you figure it out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you have to feel very vulnerable.

[B]

I don't know. I wouldn't say vulnerable, Joe. But I do think this is like, there's God guys that like, make it happen. You probably got guys like this. Any task you give a guy is just like, wait, you're done with that already?

[A]

Like, some people could just make happen.

[B]

And then I'm one of those guys that's like my. One of my better qualities. Make it happen. So, like, go make it happen.

[A]

Go act like a. When you get pulled over, man, do.

[B]

What you gotta do, baby. Like, survival of the fittest.

[A]

So the problem. Problem is once you do one of these, now you're the guy that can go do these things.

[B]

Yeah, and I did hundreds in Iraq and loved it.

[A]

Christ. Yeah, you loved it?

[B]

Loved it. He loved being alone, man.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

That. Yo, you, you okay, Think about this, Joe. And, and you do jiu jitsu when you fight, right? You want to depend on yourself or you want to depend on yourself and people, you don't know what the they're meant made of. Who the are you going to trust? Can trust yourself, right? So I. It wasn't really a big stretch for me to be alone. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah, I do. But it's still a very unusual mindset.

[B]

Yeah, maybe. I don't know. And then my, my other mindset is like no matter where I am, no matter what I do, everyone in a 25 yard radius is going to die just so I can make it home. And if I had to kill everyone in the whole village, goddamn right everyone in that village would be dead home. So I just figured yo be ready to fight at all times. I learned a hundred to one lessons. Learned leadership lessons. 100 to one being alone versus being a pack of 30, right? Like, yo, let us come ram this down your throat and we'll call it Tuesday, you know what I mean? Where. When I was alone, like, you gotta make better decisions. You're a coyote, you're a ghost. You know, you got to make ghost decisions. The, you know, the bravado, like we're gonna kill everybod, everybody. The we are. We're not going to fire a shot. Why? Because like you, you fire one shot as a singleton, you better be ready to kill everybody. Because gunshots is a dinner bell for psychos. You know what I mean? So are you ready? You know what I mean? And the reality is like I had to think of other do other. Had to act like a. You know, and then I had to get along with people. I had a How to do so much that is out of like even the commando norm as a singleton, you know, I think there's no one that.

[A]

Can really teach you this.

[B]

I mean, no, like you can teach.

[A]

A guy how to breach an airplane, right? How the are you gonna teach a guy to act like a. If you get pulled over. How are you gonna teach a guy to be a singleton and do these missions?

[B]

Well, we used to tell guys and I used to tell my guys all the time. And this is a unit thing, but like I could train a monkey to shoot. I'm training you to think I don't care about the shooting because if you're thinking right, the shooting will be easy. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, yeah, man, I'll tell you. I thought about writing a leadership book, calling it the Singleton, and just kind of the lessons I learned, you know, like, so few guys have done that, you know? Like, I see all these, like, you know, I don't know. I don't look at the Internet. I don't watch the news. I don't do any of that. I don't do social media. I have. Have it. I don't look at it. I don't have it on my phone. It's not worth my sanity. So I'm like a time capsule for the 2000s, you know what I mean? And, like, I never understood some of these other, like, veteran stories. You know, I never. I never kind of look at the lone survivor. I never understood the full story because I went out alone all the time. That didn't happen to me. Seven Taliban on my ass. You want to see seven bodies super quick, you know what I'm saying? Bring them boys up here, you know? So I never really understood some of these other stories because I had such a different experience. I can't fathom if I was with five, you know, the times I was with five guys, you know how many people. I mean, I was with three guys. You know how many people we killed in the Battle of Tora Bora? Fucking hundreds. I just stopped counting on my first day. Like, so having said that, like, I don't understand some of these stories because. Because I had the experience I had. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

It's a very unusual experience. So, like, how many guys were singletons?

[B]

I don't know any.

[A]

You don't know any?

[B]

I mean, a couple of my buddies, but, like, not like me.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. And then once I did it, it was kind of my lot in life.

[A]

How many pages is this book that you wrote?

[B]

I don't know, like, 20 chapters. I wrote a big book.

[A]

It seems like it have to be 500 pages.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So can't wait to read that book.

[B]

Shameless plug. If you know anybody who buys, someone.

[A]

Needs to buy that book. 100%.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, we'll get that book sold.

[B]

All right.

[A]

We'll get that book sold. So 100%.

[B]

So that lead.

[A]

I need to read that book right now.

[B]

I'll give it to you. I'll get. I'll text it to you.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

I'll text it to you today. For real. I'll text it to you. I'm Done with it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

No, I think it's as good as I could get it. And I'm just a reg. I'm in Chicago public school system. I didn't even take a book home because if the school loses the books, they can't teach. So it was like, half. Half my class was in the book and the other half was homework, and you left the books in class, so, like, I didn't have homework.

[A]

Well, it's probably better because you're gonna get it, like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

From you?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With no gloss.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No bullshit, but.

[B]

Which leads me to Iraq, where I did hundreds of solo missions. I was a taxi driver. I had, like, I don't know, fucking 30, 50 vehicles in Iraq.

[A]

So once they realize you can do this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, oh, call McPhee.

[B]

Yeah. Well, no, it's just kind of my thing. Like, you don't have to call me. Just tell me what you need.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, my bosses knew how to use me like that.

[A]

So you started enjoying the craziness of it?

[B]

I loved being alone.

[A]

Why did you love it so much?

[B]

I don't know. I hate to say this, but, like, guys like me are generally like, you've met a few guys like me, and they're like, yeah, I was afraid someone would get away. Like, shut the fuck up, man. God damn it. You know what I mean? Like, so not really a fan of a lot of, like, alpha males. They can be dicks at times. So, like, yeah, kind of set me down. My. Down. My path is I just stayed away from the dicks and did my own thing. You know what I mean?

[A]

Right. So you just had. You had your mission, and you enjoyed the fact that it was all.

[B]

All up to you and I didn't have to with no one else. It's on my timeline, and I will make this happen. Like, I will make happen that other people can't. I don't know how, I don't know why, but I just will.

[A]

That is such a wild experience. Like, your experience in war must be so different than everybody else's just because of that.

[B]

Yeah. So having said that, we're talking about Iraq. I brought some show and tell items.

[A]

What'd you bring?

[B]

I brought something I have never shown before.

[A]

What do you got?

[B]

And I believe it's evil. You want to see it? Yeah, I do.

[A]

What is it?

[B]

I got. I gotta get it out of my box.

[A]

Oh, you got a box?

[B]

I brought a box.

[A]

I'm kind of scared. What's that?

[B]

Hey, can you Google Saddam Hussein Mouser?

[A]

This is his hat?

[B]

Yeah. Jesus. It's the one where he shoots the mouser in the air at the parade grounds. I was given that Tobias Taylor. Wow. Yeah, that one. The liner fell out. The liner's in here. Look. It's. You can see what kind of hat it is. The glue fell out of the liner, but look. Oh, that's crazy. I rolled up his tailor and all his butlers. Anybody who touched his ass, fed him, or touched his dick, I rolled them up. Wow. Saddam was captured nine days after I left. I had to leave for Christmas.

[A]

This is Christian crazy. This was on his head. Now it's here.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. But it's a picadilly fox fur hat. I also have a sweater. I took a. I had all his clothes. Like, man, I had everything that guy had. But, yeah, his tailor. Okay, so Saddam's inner circle, right? When. When. When I was working Saddam, we were working a Saddam piece, right? Some legendary hits that no one's ever talked about. Like, we did the cleverest shit fucking during Saddam. And I will tell you this is I learned on my singleton mission, Afghanistan, the first one. We need to be a lot smarter if we want to crush these. And I'm not talking like, we captured two bad guys. I'm talking we go in, kill everyone needs to be killed, capture everyone that needs to be captured, and do this. Right, Right. So, yeah, with the Saddam piece, right? His tailor and his butlers. And Saddam's inner circle was all Christians. Every one of them was a Christian. And Saddam believed that Christians, if they martyr themselves, go to hell. Muslims martyr themselves, you go to heaven. Right? So he surrounded himself with Christians. So his tailor, his butlers, his Jawalas, all those guys, they're washing his ass, feeding this. We're all Christians. And it's why Christians flourished in Iraq, which they're, you know, like, I. I'd like to. I'd hope all these guys are still alive, but the reality is, is, like, ISIS probably got rid of them after Saddam's gone, you know? Yeah. ISIS killed so many Christians. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, but they were all Christians. And so his. I. It started with the ex ambassador. Excuse me. To the US and then I met the tailor and started talking to the tailor. And then one day he brought this hat and he brought some clothes. And I was like, what was this? And he was like, you know, he told me this is the one where he shot the mouser. And he had some clothes. I grabbed a sweater. I wear the sweater on Christmas Eve. And then, hey, When I was. When I was fatter, it's like. It's like a halter top. My belly's had my belly fats hanging out, you know, My family's like. I don't know, they think I'm nuts. But I normally wear that sweater on Christmas. I forgot to bring it around. I brought it.

[A]

But wow.

[B]

Yeah. Now that I lost weight, I think I'm actually Saddam's size. You know those saying. Spooky, you know what I'm saying? I end up being the same. I could have wore all those clothes. You know what I mean? Wow. But, yeah, they were Christians, right? And we rolled up the tailor. The tailor gave up a butler. Like, I was. Me and another guy were at the tailor's house, right? And we were going to snatch this guy, right? This butler. And the butler is the guy who used to wash Saddam. Like, he bathed Saddam every day.

[A]

So Saddam had someone bathe him? Yeah, he didn't bathe himself.

[B]

No. Crazy, right? Yeah, weird. But he had a lot of. Lot of. But they were all Christians and they were all. Honestly, they were all nice people, to be fair. Like, all the Christians were great people. Anyway. Yeah. So I'm in the house with another guy and the guy's early. So we shoot up on the roof. The guy comes, I call my guys. They're. They're not really in place yet. So he comes, he leaves. He only stays a minute and he's gone. You know what I mean? And these. I think all these inner circle Saddam folks know they were valuable to us. And. And, like, they realized they were going to get snatched at some time. So he was like. He was out, right? I called my guys, right? And then literally my guys were like two blocks away as he was leaving. He ran into their Humvee. He ran into my guys, and they're like, hey, this guy just ran into us in, like, this vehicle. I'm like, that's the dude.

[A]

He got in an accident.

[B]

Yeah. He ran into our guys in a hum. He was trying to drive away and, like, crashed into, like, the guys that were going to snatch him. Wow. Yeah. I'll tell you another Saddam story. This is. This is my. One of my favorites. Saddam had, like, regular pieces of ass. And, like, his favorite piece of ass was this butter face lady. I don't know what she did for him, but she wasn't a looker, you know what I mean? So, like, look and feel are different things. Saddam knew what felt right to him, obviously. And she was married and we wanted to get to her. I Mean, maybe Saddam favorite sex partner wouldn't know where he is, right? Like, so we have the tailor. The tailor knows who he is. So we have the tailor kind of invite him to the tailor stop shop. This tailor had a store in downtown Baghdad. So he comes in the store, and I told my guys, if he doesn't come out quick, to. I had a couple. I don't know what they're called now, Mohawks, I think, is what they call the Iraqi counter terror guys. Well, before they were even established, like, the guys were with us, you know? So we had a couple of those guys, and I have them start fighting in front of the store, right? So literally everyone piles on in the street to see these guys fighting, right? Like, everyone piles out of all the shops, stores, and everyone's watching these two guys fight, fight. Literally. The guy we're looking for, like, walks up to see the fight, and his back is to the van door. The guys that are gonna snatch him.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So I call him. I'm like, yo, you see that tall guy? That's our guy. Snatch him. And no vandor van door opens. Nobody even knew where the guy went. The tailor later was like, where did he go? Did you take. Who took him? Where did this guy go? Where does this man at, you know, mean? Like, no one even seen him get snatched, right?

[A]

That's such a clever idea.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Have two guys fight in front, so everybody's going to come.

[B]

And then later, my boss was like, who are those guys fighting? I was like, it's our boys. And he was like, wait, did you do that? And I was like, I didn't want to be there for like, six hours. Like, you know what I mean? Like, how do we speed this up? We got to do today, like, you know what I mean? That's my. Efficiency is my thing.

[A]

Like, that's genius.

[B]

Yeah, that's one of the. And we did so much. Hey, all right, I'll tell you another one. My first Saddam hit. I worked a lot of intel side for Saddam, me and a couple other guys. So we worked somewhere not with our squadron, and we worked with another government agency. Makes sense. Yeah. So we get to call. The squadron's doing a hit, there's a Saddam sighting, right? So this is like the beginning. Like, 2003, Iraq. We were, Ken blocking it with maps. Like, hit the third traffic circle, go out on the 9 o'clock. Like, literally. I get us to Ken blocking. Navigating through a shitty Baghdad street map. I get us to the target, right? Humvees are already there. The Rest of the guys are already there. Rangers got the blocking position, positions all set up. So we get there, we raid the house, right? We get all these guys. And then finally there was like, no Joe. There was like, I don't know, 15. It was like a Saddam lookalike contest. They all had the mustache. There's like, short, fat Saddams. There's like, tall, skinny Saddams.

[A]

So it's like body doubles.

[B]

Well, I don't know if it was body double.

[A]

It just all looked like.

[B]

Yeah, because, like, the Saddam look was popular, the mustache. And, I mean, not that they all look the same, but they kind of all look the same, you know, from my perspective at the time, right? So, like, it was like, well, no wonder someone called this in. It's like, they all look like Saddam, you know what I mean? And then on the outside, like, fuck, man. The Rangers shot up these vehicles at the blocking position. I have my squad. My. My sergeant major was like, hey, go fucking clean up the bodies. And I'm like, why the Am I on brains detail? I didn't shoot nobody today. And he's like, you're the only one with a regular pickup truck that could haul the bodies. And I'm like, already thought it through. This is why this guy's the boss. You know what I mean? Like, and then lesson learned that day is, you know, like, in Iraq, you just drink water out of bottles and then throw them in your truck, man. We were loading bodies in. There's a hundred water bottles in the back of the bed. Someone just come by the bed of the truck and throw an empty water bot bottle in, like, at the house or whatever, right? And like, I'm throwing bodies and in the back of my truck, and there's, like, bloody water bottles squirting everywhere. It's a mess, man. So I learned that day, like, my vehicles are always clean. Always clean, man, from that day on. But, like, it's a mess. And then, man, they shot up this. This old man, this old lady. Like, they ran the checkpoint. They were about. They're about to hit the Humvee with the RA. So the kid shot at the driver, but, like, the kids didn't. The Rangers back then didn't know as much as Rangers know now. You know what I'm saying? And the kid, like, shot the warning shots at the driver, but he hit the brakes. And the fucking vehicle will never stop if you shoot the brakes. I don't know if you know that, but. And it fucking hit the Humvee at, like, fucking 40 miles an hour. Broke the transmission and I had to clean up the bodies. I had to set up an hlz, take them later to the hlz, you know what I mean? And that was like my is my first Saddam raid in Iraq. And it was my first experience in Iraq with the Rangers. And like that day I was fed up with them, you know, like there's some young 18 year old kid medic in the back of the truck. And like, I'm like, hey, give these people morphine. He's like, I'm not supposed to give the enemy morphine, Sergeant. You know what I mean? I'm like, yo, does anyone look like a enemy to you here? Anyone fighting you in the back of the truck? Then there is no enemies here, bud. Give these people some drugs so like, at least we ain't gotta hear him moan and you know what I mean? And like the kid, like, I had to force him to like, be humane, you know what I mean? Because he was just trying to follow orders. Later, later they'd be so much better, right? But beginning of the war, like my first, that was my first Saddam hit, you know what I mean? And I was just thinking, this is gonna be awesome, man. That kid was shooting down the street with the.50 cal. Like, imagine just a city street in Austin, right? And you're parked in the middle of the road and you just shoot with a.50 cow off the top of a Humvee, you know, like eight feet off the ground. Do those tracer rounds would skip down the road. It was breaking glass, going through cars, you know, 500 yards down the road, like people scattered. Like, it's amazing, you know? Wow, 50 cows, amazing. You know what I mean? And then I had a pickup guts. But.

[A]

Well, this is the up thing about it is like you, you went through all this chaos. You're uniquely qualified for chaos. For some strange reason.

[B]

Love chaos is my jam, man. As soon as this gets confusing, yo, I got this. You know what I mean?

[A]

But why is that?

[B]

I don't know. It seems to be what I do best. Yeah.

[A]

I think is that something that, like, you accumulated this mindset over time or did you just always have it?

[B]

I think it was beaten to me. Really? Yeah. Like, think about it. When I was a kid, the house was chaotic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? You learn, you learn the chaos, right?

[A]

And then it's just. You're designed for that. Break glass in case of war.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I guess so. I don't know. I think I'm a normal guy, but like, people tell me I'm not, not normal.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I understand you. I understand you. It's not normal, but I understand you.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, like, look, I just feel like, okay, we're all going to die. I'm not going to let it ruin my day. I've been through bad. I'm not the victim, I've done bad. I'm not the bad guy. You know what I'm saying? Like, and then having said that, it's like, I don't know man, I, I think it affects everybody different. But I think, you know, before I retired, I was burned out. I didn't know I was burned out. I was an. Every day I was, you know, you, I mean, I just, guys would come into my office. What do you want? Yeah, too slow. Get the out. When you know what you want, come back. I gotta be like, okay, sorry.

[A]

Well, you were operating at 10.

[B]

Always.

[A]

Always.

[B]

Yeah. And then I learned, man, like I was having a lot. I hate, hated my life. I was miserable. I hated being a sergeant major. I hated being army management is what I called it. I'm not a leader, I'm not a follower, I'm not a soldier. I'm army management. And that is dry toast, you know what I'm saying? And I just got out of Baghdad in 06. Killing people like 06 was a great year, you know. And then I gotta sit on the staff and do this like it just killing me, Joe. And then, and so like I wasn't a very good sergeant major. So I realized one day, like, man, I think I used to be funny. Like, you know, like when I was a kid, like I'd catch that beating if I could say that one smart ass comment to you. I might get beat more, but I said my piece, you know what I mean? Even as a little kid, I'll take the beating to fucking call you an. So like I kind of maybe had that mindset going into it or something, you know what I mean? Like. But yeah, man, I just think, like, I think a lot of it just goes back to my childhood and being able to manage the chaos. One minute we're fighting, the next minute, you know, someone's at the front door. Let's go answer.

[A]

The crazy thing about it is that if you are, you're running a. You're running any branch of the military and you're asking a lot of people to find someone like you, that you can find someone who doesn't just accept this but thrives on it. That's like, try recreating that in a lab. Fuck you know, I'm saying no, how do you. How do you make that? You can't.

[B]

Oh, no. I've only seen, like. I don't know. In my experience, of all the guys I know and all the combat I've seen, I'd say there's like just. I mean, you know, we're not. We're not the common guys. You know what I mean? Maybe a dozen in my life, you.

[A]

Guys on a group chat.

[B]

No, no. You don't talk to nobody. You know what I mean? You'll never. Who they are. They ain't talking to you, me, nobody. You know what I mean? And some, you know, of the. You know, I maybe know a dozen of those guys, eight probably still work for the dark side of the government as old men, wherever that is. Yeah. And the other guys are, like, raising families and don't want you with them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I mean? They don't do like this. Yeah, guys like me don't do like.

[A]

But the thing about it is, if you didn't talk about it, people wouldn't know.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like, I think it's great that you talk about it. I think it's important. I think people need to. I mean, people need to. You know, we're trying to, like, fill in an understanding of the world. And until you've talked to someone who's experienced a part of the world in a way, in a way that no one else has, you don't know that that's a thing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, the fact that you can come and talk about this is a very good thing for everybody.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Because people see, like, okay, like, this is. This is super complicated. Like, this. The whole thing was super complicated. And to have a guy that could talk about navigating, probably the most complicated aspect of this super complicated thing and to actually thrive in it is very strange.

[B]

Thank you. I still think I'm normal, Joe. I think I'm a regular guy.

[A]

You're definitely not normal. But I. But like I said, I understand you.

[B]

Thanks, man.

[A]

I get it.

[B]

But yeah, man. And look, I got some more items. You want to see something else? I've never showed off, So I talk about stories in some of my videos about being a taxi driver. I also had another vehicle that was an UD cuse secret police vehicle. So when I drive this vehicle downtown, like, the sea would part, the road could be packed, and I drive in my vehicle and people just move.

[A]

What kind of vehicle was it?

[B]

It was like a Maxima, a Nissan Maxima. But it's what the Uday secret police drove. You know what I'm saying? And then they carried these. And I'll show you. Check this out.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So the. The lion is the Babylon lion, and that's the symbol of the Republican Guard. But I used to carry that as a taxi driver. And when I get out of the taxi, people would see that gun and just walk away.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And that's a Republican. That's what the Republican Guard rock, those silver guns. I say it's a pearl handle, but it's like. Plastic.

[A]

Yeah, it's plastic.

[B]

Yeah. There's nothing fancy about it, but specific to them. Yeah.

[A]

Wow. Let's say on there.

[B]

Yeah, I had a guy make it for me.

[A]

Elk rivel tool handle.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Bozeman, Montana.

[B]

There's only so many guys that all do AKs, you know, like.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I mean? You. You wanna. You want like a silver ak? What are you, the cartel? No. Get the out of here. You're not serious about guns. You know how many fucking nose I had to collect up? They're like. Anyway, but that's my Republican Guard. That's my taxi driver.

[A]

So you had that made specifically because you knew that they carried that?

[B]

No, I cast captured that on the battlefield and carried it in Iraq.

[A]

So that is one. But why does it say Bozeman, Montana?

[B]

Because. Well, because. Okay, so if you bring one home, you get fired. But what I did. What I did is I took the handguard and the pistol grip and then I had a guy make a copy of what I had.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

So it's. It's. I mean, it's legal and everything, but.

[A]

So the handguard and the pistol grab. Yeah, from the original gun.

[B]

Right, but that's exactly what the original gun looked like because I didn't want. Look, when you're in the defo, like you want to get fired for bringing back an ak, right? You know what I mean? Like dumb, like. You know what I mean? Like, it's not worth the risk. Right. But like, it's like, hey, can I bring this handguard back? Like the. You want that garbage for? That's a yes. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And then it took me a while to get. But yeah, that guy built it for me.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Just got it kind of matches the hat. Everybody I know likes to take a picture with that and the hat, so it's kind of popular, but.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah, the hat's been in Texas here for a very long time. Been stored in Texas. Got it documented about as much as possible as I Can some nightmares in. I don't know. Hey, you know, anybody that would might want it.

[A]

Well, you were selling it. Yeah, I bet somebody want that.

[B]

I don't. I don't want it. Yeah, and if someone. No, no. Joe, why do you think I keep in a black box, man? Like, yeah, yeah, I don't want it, but I know there is people out there that would treat it better than me. Like, I mean, I crammed it in a box. Yeah, well, and the guy that stored it for me put it in glass. You know what I mean? Like, he kind of knew what he was doing. Actually, I had it stuffed in a bag.

[A]

You know what that would be good for Zach Bagan's Haunted Museum Vegas. Have you ever been.

[B]

Do you know, Zach? No. I hear that place is creepy. My brother said it was creepy.

[A]

Creepy.

[B]

And my brother likes creepy. And he was freaked out.

[A]

Oh, he's got everything in that place. He's got Korkan's van where he killed all those people.

[B]

He's got the Camaro from the Waco. What's Kesh?

[A]

Does he.

[B]

And like the cereal?

[A]

I think so.

[B]

I thought he bought the Camaro from K. You were going to. Wasn't this serial number like, I am God or something? Wasn't it the serial number?

[A]

It's a 68 Camaro, and it was for sale. And I came that close to pulling the trigger on it, but I was like, I don't want that bad juju in my life. That's it. 68 Camaro from Deadly Siege. Zach Baggins. Oh, he does that. So he bought it. So Zach bought it?

[B]

Yeah, he's the one selling it, I think.

[A]

Oh, he's selling it now. So he got it. It was for sale.

[B]

23. This was from a year.

[A]

No, this. It was for sale quite a while ago. And I was going to buy it. I. Somebody. Somebody emailed me and told me that they know I love old muscle cars. And they said, koresh's Camaros for sale. I was like, oh. And I went like this. Let me buy it. Then I was like, no, the. Am I going to do with this?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I'd rather buy one that has no history.

[A]

Yeah, I have a 69. Yeah, I love them. I. I love old muscle cars. So I was thinking about it, but I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don't want that in your life.

[B]

You know, I had a 67 Camaro and I was a kid.

[A]

Look at the title. David Kesh, Waco, Texas. Jesus Christ.

[B]

Does the serial number Say I am God or something.

[A]

No, it seems normal. Look at the VIN numbers. Normal. It's a normal VIN number.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

Yeah, that guy, I. When, you know, you went to the mothership last night? Yeah, I was going to buy another building before that that was run by a cult and they moved out here. It was. I forget what the. What was the name? The Bodhi Tree. Is that what it's called? Anyway, there's a documentary on. It's called Holy Hell. So this guy, this guy, he was a yoga teacher in West Hollywood, and he was a gay porn star and a hypnotist. So this fucking guy, he got a lot of ass. So the bodie field. That's it. Thank you. So Waco goes off, right? And then the cult awareness network starts investigating him. And he's running this cult in West Hollywood. So he escapes in the middle of the night and drives out to Texas, moves to Austin, tells everybody come here, and they all move out to Austin. And then he has them build this place. It's called the One World Theater. And all the cult members ran this place for years until they figured out that this guy was fucking everybody. One guy sends out a mass email saying, hey, this guy's been hypnotizing me and butt fucking me for the last 10 years. And everybody's like, me too. And so then they all find out that he's fucking everybody, this guy. So they all leave. The cult falls apart. The building's for sale. So I swoop in. When I move here, the building's for sale. Ron White tells me about the building being for sale. He's like, this building, fucking awesome. I perform there. You should get. You should buy it. So Ron White's my hero. So I'm like, I'll buy it. Fuck it. Yeah, you know, I need a cl. We're gonna open up a comedy club. Let's open it up in this place. All sorts of problems with the building code, this, that, a lot of environment, environmental, a lot of shit. So I get out of it. But I bought the building before I watched the documentary. So I watched the documentary and I'm like, oh, no, same thing. It's like these fucking people, all the lives lost, they lived 20 years. These poor people wasted 20 years of their life following this fucking asshole. And he's got this building. But the reason why he bought the building was because of Waco. So when Waco pops off, they were like, oh, geez, these cults are fucking dangerous. So the cult awareness network starts going after everybody. So this guy moves here and checks, changes his name. Because, like, back then you could kind of change. No Internet. You kind of change your name and know, oh, it's a different guy. And so he builds. He has his whole. All his followers build him this theater. So for a brief period of time, I was under contract for that theater.

[B]

Did you go in there building?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Was it creepy in there?

[A]

It was a little weird. This guy would, like. He had this theater, beautiful theater. He had it built so he could dance in front of his followers, so he could perform in front of his followers. He was a weird cat. He was like a really handsome guy when he was younger. But then as he got older, he started getting plastic surgery and got looked real weird. And he would, like, be thinking about getting something done, so he'd force one of his followers to go get it done. And so they'd get it done. They'd come back with their fucking cheeks. Like, I kind of like that. And then he would go and get the surgery done. At the end of it, the end of the documentary, he looks really weird because he's got Botox ch. Weird to his face. Yeah. But the feeling in the building was just like, like of loss. That's what it felt like.

[B]

Loss.

[A]

Just, Just, just. Oh, no.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, like. Like you don't want to buy a house from some people that they went bankrupt and they lost everything and their family fell apart. Then you're in the house, like, ooh, yeah, this house feels like sadness. Yeah, that's. I felt like we could burn some sage and party in there for a few days.

[B]

We'll clean it up, get some good energy.

[A]

Now I'm glad. I'm glad that that didn't happen.

[B]

Why even go through that?

[A]

Yeah, well, it was kind of funny at first. I thought it was funny until I found, you know, a cult owned it. Oh, this is funny. And then my buddy Adam called me up because, hey, you watch a documentary on that cult?

[B]

I was like, oh, no, there's a documentary.

[A]

It's never good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They don't write, do make documentaries about the good cults.

[B]

No.

[A]

And it was a. It was horrible. At the end of the documentary, like, you're tearing up. You're like, oh, these poor people. Because there's so many people. Some people are just gullible and they. They're not bad people. They just want someone better than them to tell them how to live life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's all.

[B]

They need something.

[A]

Yeah, they need someone, something. If they're missing something, whatever it is, something went wrong. And they're willing to believe a lot of really ridiculous. And then 20 years later, they realize they wasted their life.

[B]

People do a lot of weird shit. Call it religion.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And that was this place.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But that was because of Waco, that this. This guy built this thing.

[B]

Yeah. Damn.

[A]

The Waco thing's. You ever watched the. The raid?

[B]

I know. Yeah. I mean, the raid. Kind of like, we got the briefings back in the day. Like, you know, the raid was a couple years old, but. Yeah, I know about the raid.

[A]

It was pretty. I mean, they just couldn't cooked those people.

[B]

Yeah, they burned it down.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I can see the tanks, like, shooting fire into the buildings, and they're like. I don't know what happened. Caught fire.

[B]

Yeah. Fire.

[A]

It was back in the 90s when you could kind of get away with something like that. And people didn't really know.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Like. Well, we didn't know it would burn. Well, it is made of wood, like. Yeah, But I mean.

[A]

And we shot fire at it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know what happened.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's crazy. All right, you ready? I got some other stuff.

[A]

What else you got? What else you got?

[B]

So check this out. I got. I got a swag bag for you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I got a bunch of stuff I make that I do. Right? So I just kind of want to. I like to do this right. Look, I got you the SOB hat. This is the best hat we sell right here. It's the one. I wear this on the range every day.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I got you same T shirt as me. Team SOB shirt. Right. Well, welcome to the team, Joe.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

We're glad to have you. One of my second favorite shirt of all times is this. And I wear this every day when I elk hunt. Do you really? Yeah. Oh, wait. Oh, no. This is the wrong one. I got a shirt. I. I sell these shirts. They're called slaughter things. And it's all I wear in Elkamp. You know what I mean? But look, we got you Shut up, hippie shirt. I sell a ton of these.

[A]

Like, I wear these other knives.

[B]

They're bullets. Got your shut up, hippie shirt. I, When I go to California, teach California classes. I. I wear a Shut up, hippie shirt all the time, and then tons of guys buy them. I had a guy, he comes to my classes. He's a younger kid. He's tall. Got a young family, right? They go to, I think, Asheville, North Carolina, and they're eating at, like, some destination. Like, you gotta go eat here. And it's a bus. So he's a big guy, right? And he's in this, like, school bus, and that's where you got orders and old school bus. So he said, like, my shoulders almost touching the ceiling and he had to put his head down. And he had his shut up, hippie shirt on behind him. And some. Hey, some hippie behind him was like, you better be careful wearing that shirt. You'll get your ass kicked around here. Right. Hey. And he. And he says, he looks back and he pulled up his shirt and he said, better make it a gunfight. And they shut the up.

[A]

Oh, that's hilarious.

[B]

Yeah, well, North Carolina, you're gonna get your ass kicked.

[A]

That's so funny.

[B]

By hippies.

[A]

That's so funny.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's the most gentle ass kicking of all time.

[B]

Yeah, thank you for that. You know what I mean? Okay, I got you. Condom holster. I make these 365. It's your EDC. You.

[A]

You make these out of leather, right?

[B]

Yeah, they're made out of leather.

[A]

I saw this on Sean show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Yeah, it's a. It's all I use. It's all I wear. It is the most comfortable holster here. And that's all this stuff for you. I'll give you the bag too, also.

[A]

Oh, I got a bag.

[B]

Okay. So check this out. Here's another thing I use all the time. The cooling schmog. So basically, I saw this too, you know what the. You know, the schmogs, Right. Basically, I made a cooling towel the size of a schmog.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So, like, when I'm on the range, literally, I just dump a bottle of water in my neck. The thing absorbs it.

[A]

What's it made out of?

[B]

It's the cooling material, you know, like the cooling towel material. Right.

[A]

But the.

[B]

The problem with most cooling towels is they're not big enough. So it's like one layer on your neck, and it dries in like, two minutes.

[A]

This, right?

[B]

This you could kind of get. Double it up, pour water on it. It'll stay cool.

[A]

Because I've seen people, they're making gear and clothes out of, like, this cooling material. What is it? What is it?

[B]

I don't know. I think it's like, it. The way it's woven to where when the water drains out of it, it cools quicker. And it's materials. That cool clicker. Or feel cool to the touch.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Kind of deal without knowing what it is.

[A]

I've heard, like, people talk about clothes that they make out of this. They're like it's really legit. Like for whatever reason, it like keeps you cooler.

[B]

I would wear T shirts on the range made of that shit every fucking day I'm outside.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Fuck yeah. Especially in the heat, you know what I mean? Okay, so check it out. I got you a couple slings. I don't know if you have rifles, but okay, 100% made in America. Everything on the sling is made. There's a QD on there. I make traditionally QDs in the gun world.

[A]

If somebody wants to buy any of this stuff, where do they get it? Online.

[B]

Sheriff of Baghdad Joe.

[A]

Sheriffbaghdad.com that's right. Okay.

[B]

That's right. Okay. Here's another thing I got you. Punchers punch daggers.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So it's G10. I got a few of them here.

[A]

Oh, okay. So this doesn't even go through a metal detector.

[B]

That's right. There's no metal in the sheath. It's all plastic. Screws a cleans up easy. No DNA. You could clean it in diesel fuel. It'll wash all the DNA off diesel. Few washing anything. Alcohol. Yeah. Diesel fuel is the move, I think.

[A]

So just go to the gas station.

[B]

Yeah. Get on canisters. You could do dish soap, but you can't permeate the plastic. It'll come clean. And I sharpen them with. I sharpen them normally with like 400 grit sandpaper.

[A]

Did you really?

[B]

I just resharpen it with sandpaper. But the reason I made it is I always wanted something where like you, I was always wearing my body armor, right? And I wanted to just put the punch dagger right in the center. That way if something happened, I could.

[A]

Get it right, boom.

[B]

And just start punching. I mean, the whole problem with knives is you got to learn how to use a knife. But with a punch dagger, if you could throw a punch right, you could bury that thing in someone's neck. You know what I mean? Like, which was what I would tell anyone.

[A]

Jamie's been looking for one of those for a while, haven't you, Jamie?

[B]

When Carl gets out of line. Yeah. Hey. It'll clean the DNA off, sand it down a little alcohol. Okay. Another thing I made, and this is super important, I call these combat bands. It's a high temperature silicone, but it's a rubber band. The so what here is when, like when I carry this rifle, I put a sling on it. But if I'm in, in and out of vehicles, the sling is always just hanging somewhere, right? So I put the rubber band on the gun and then I just Weave the sling underneath the rubber band so.

[A]

If this touch as the barrel doesn't melt.

[B]

Right, right. And then back in the day, I had to use actual rubber bands for parachutes. And it lasts a day. Like, in the heat in Texas, a rubber band will last one day in a car. Well. Well, that's only one day. I might. I got to go to out every day in my car. Right. So when I retired, it's one of the things I wanted the most. So I made them. The guys use them to, like, put suppressor covers, hold them on their. You know, on their suppressor.

[A]

You have great videos online, like, instructional videos, like how to fight out of your car.

[B]

Yeah. Thank you.

[A]

Yeah, they're really, like, informative, like. Like things I didn't think I was interested in learning. Then I started watching this. Okay. This guy's thought this through.

[B]

It's all I did, Joe. Like. And I'm. Look, I'm a simple guy. Let me just show you how I did this. Right. Maybe you come up with a better way. I don't know. Right.

[A]

And.

[B]

But I think, think this is, like. This is the difference between the army and the unit. In the army, they're like, here's a gun, kid. Go use it in the unit. They're like, let me show you to the nth degree how to use that rifle. So when something happens, guess what? You know what I'm saying? So it's the difference between showing someone something and teaching someone something. And I think those are different, and I think. I think that's what the unit was good at. Here's some of my favorite things. The boot kicks. Solomon boots Made for the military. I've been wearing Solomon boots. You'll see a set of Solomon boots in the Saddam picture.

[A]

I hunted with them this year.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it's all I wear. Solomons. Right? Well, if you got the quests, you know how the laces kind of come.

[A]

Yep. So, like the running shoes?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I turn them into, like, the running shoes.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Yeah, we sell a ton of those. Okay.

[A]

And what do you do with the extra lace?

[B]

Cut it off. I cut.

[A]

I cut, cut it off.

[B]

I. I loosen the boot where I get my foot out, and I cut the excess off and put the end on. Ah. So. So I don't have, like, three feet of laces. I only have, like, eight or 10 inches. You know what I mean? Six inches, whatever it is.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

These are. These are some of my best things. This is a. I would call it a scribe tool. Right. In the fax said that it's a carpenter pencil. Makes sense, you know, a carpenter pencil, but the middle is G10. Same thing as the punch knife. So it's for stabbing. A lot of guys carry them, go through metal detectors. A lot of guys carry them. Airports like these things. I get pictures of these things everywhere. Yeah, I made it fist size so you could punch with it or kind of get a good stab with it if you wanted. You know what I mean? Something I always wanted.

[A]

Smart. Yeah, yeah. I have a pencil like that. Yeah, someone gave me.

[B]

Yep, yep. Okay, so check this out. You, here's a bunch of stickers. We make some of the things that happen on the range. Blind guys, I always tell them they can't see. You know how like when you shoot and guys like really push their butt backwards. I call that the prison wallet. You know what I mean? I be like, showing me your prison wallet, it. You know what I mean? So there's a lot of stickers or like, funny. I tell guys all the time, like, a guy will be shooting good all day long, at the end of the day, he'll something up and I'll just come up. All I gotta do is whisper to a guy, be like, sucks to suck, don't it? And a guy be like, what the up? You know what I mean? So all the stickers are just funny. That happens on the range. Right. And then look, this is the premise of the NRA show we talked about earlier is I made a little card. The gun world is sketchy information at best. Generally speaking of where your bullets go and why. Like, it's magic.

[A]

This is about eye dominance.

[B]

Yeah, One side's eye dominance, the other one is how to fix yourself where the bullets go and why. Make sense?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So look this. Yeah, so look this edge.

[A]

Tension on the left hand.

[B]

Yeah. And then like you use this edge. So if your group is generally tall, right? You got stance issues. And then as you see your group, whatever angle it's on, the arrows point to it and tell you how to fix it.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Now backside eye dominance. This is where the gun world up. And I'll tell you this, the gun world talks about two things for eyes. Primary hand. Primary eye. Right hand. Right eye dominant.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They talk about being cross eye dominant. Right handed. Left eye dominant right.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay, here's how division I think really works. Okay? Being primary hand. Primary eye is the guy who makes all the rules in shooting. You should open your eyes, you should do this right? He makes all the rules, but the reality is, is his vision is his Right eye. On a scale of 1 to 10, he'll tell you boring. Borderline 11 because it's that good. You know what I mean? Borderline 11 in the good eye. Ask him the vision in his other eye and he's going to tell you hard 8. It's not really so good. This guy will always be able to keep the other eye open. Make sense?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Now these are the same thing. It whether your primary hand, primary eye or cross eye dominant, it's the same thing. You have a strong eye and a weak eye and the strongest eye takes over. Doesn't matter. Strong eye takes over, Right? Easy for you. Okay? This is one out of ten. The other nine are what I call eye neutral. Right? They don't have a dominant eye and either I could take over at any time because either eye on a pistol could see the sights at any time, right? And this is where people get up.

[A]

That makes sense with archery too.

[B]

100 it's the same.

[A]

Don't like to keep both eyes open. I tried it.

[B]

Yeah, well that's because you're what I would call eye neutral. Say what I'm saying. And then I would, I would also say this. If you have a gray hair on your head, you're closer to being eye neutral than any I dominant, any fucking thing. Because of life, right? And the reason I would tell you that is because the part of the brain that works the eyes is like the part of the brain that works the ears. It's the part of the brain that works the legs and the arms, right? They work all these things on your subconscious, I think work better together and are stronger together. What do I mean by that? You know, you know, when it comes to leg day, dudes are like, dude man, bro on a squat, 500 on leg day. Okay? Does that mean you can do £250 with one leg? No, you can't probably, right? Because the legs are stronger together than they are independently.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And this is a function of the deep part of your brain, the fast part of your brain, right? So having said that, you can't choose an ear, can you?

[A]

Right.

[B]

The only way you can choose an eye is the eyelid, which has nothing to do with vision or dominance. See what I'm saying?

[A]

That makes sense. I've never heard anybody say that before, but now that you're saying it. Yeah, like okay, yeah.

[B]

So if you look at the card, right? If you're like right handed, right eye dominant, you should be hitting in the middle of the circle there, right? But if your left eye Takes over. Look where the rounds will go. And it'll always be, look, it'll always be eye distance apart on your target. So people that have eye issues, they don't shoot one group, they shoot two groups, one for each eye. And the gun goes left eye, right.

[A]

Eye, left eye, right eye. Evan was telling me that he learned to practice left handed a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he practices things even though he's right hand dominant. He's like, yeah, help. It helped the right side to practice with the left side.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you subscribe to that?

[B]

Yes, I do. And I'll tell you why. Before I retired from the army, I tore my bicep out of my, out of my left arm. I'm left handed. So I went and turned in all my left handed holsters and got right handed holsters. And I was like, I'm going to train myself to be right handed from here forward. Because the VA said I'd never use my left hand again. So I was like, okay, you guys, I'll be a righty. You can't slow me down. You know what I mean? And then I started training as a righty. Took me about two weeks. I was fucked up is tough, you know what I mean? I had to stick with it. Fucking a lot of frustrating days. And after about two weeks, my brain just transferred all, all that skill to the right hand. And I just rocked it from then on out.

[A]

It makes sense because you have this mental memory of excellence with one side.

[B]

You just have to, well, think about this. If you actually knew perfect practice, you could switch that to the other hand. But if you never knew perfect practice, the other hand would get the same garbage.

[A]

Right? That makes sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I think completely makes sense. And I've never heard anybody say it before. Everybody says you should keep both eyes open.

[B]

Well, you should. But the guy who made that rule has a strong eye and a weak eye and he can do that. Where you, your brain, when I say someone is eye neutral, your brain treats your eyes as equal. What does that mean? Your vision could be shit. It could be great. But the brain says, I got two windows. I look out of this one, let me look out of that one.

[A]

And you'll go on back and forth.

[B]

You'll see the gun move, you'll see the head move. And then most of time it just like it's no good. You're just not seeing it good. Makes sense.

[A]

It does. Are you one of those guys that resists red dots or do you?

[B]

I don't give a. You know what I mean?

[A]

Did you ever resist it at all? Or do you? So, because iron sights never fail you. They're always there. No batteries.

[B]

I am not a red dot guy. I'm an iron sight guy. However, let me explain myself. The Internet knows me as a red dot hater. But, you know, I'm taking that video and I'm going to draw one line through that red dot back to your face. And if it don't point exactly to your, you're shooting and not seeing. And every time I show this to somebody, like, so you're against red dots. No, you're never going to catch the red dot unless you get better technique.

[A]

And you get better technique with iron sights.

[B]

Well, no, you could have good technique with a red dot also if you had good technique and someone showed it to you, but no one shows it to you, right? The next thing with the red dot is the red dot is great for guys who don't see well because what happens is the red dot, it becomes in between you, your eye and the target. Makes sense essentially, right? So you'll be able to see that. But what no one tells you is it's harder to learn, harder to master. So you need it, but you need to train with it properly or it's not doing.

[A]

Why is it harder to learn?

[B]

Few reasons. You know the. If you look at pro shooters, high level pro shooters, guys that are like insanely fast when winning, you know, national Ipsic champs. Rob. Rob Latham, Dave Savigny. You look at these guys, what you'll see is like, they're so much more efficient than anyone else, right? And they'll use a way bigger site. Like, I think the winningest site of all time in like gun games is it's like the Seymour sts, but it's like more of the size of a beer can than, than it is the little tactical site, right? So now when you shrink that thing down to a postage stamp, they put a coating on it so it doesn't fucking reflect or whatever, but you can't see through it well. And they curve the glass, which anyone who shoots rifle scopes will tell you. Fish eyes, a real thing, right? But this red dot has all these things going on and it's supposed to be better for a guy who don't see shit.

[A]

That's interesting.

[B]

And it just becomes hard, harder to do. And then once you show them how to get it right, like, they'll never have problems again.

[A]

But it's all about showing them how to get it right, right?

[B]

And then no one talks about that because they're stuck on, you can't use the right eye or they never get past that.

[A]

How important is it to teach people the right way the first time so they don't have to unlearn?

[B]

Man, everyone has a preconceived notion of what they think they should do. Whether you've shot before or not. And I'm going to have to unfuck that.

[A]

No matter what.

[B]

No matter what. So it's like, you know, it's like kind of like in the dojo where it's like, okay, I want you to do like 20 good 20 shitty arm bars. And then we'll, we'll get the hips better on the next 20. We'll tweak the hand on the next 20. We'll, you know what I mean, like get some of them bulk movements down first.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then we keep fine tuning.

[A]

Right? Fine tuning, yeah.

[B]

So it doesn't matter if, I mean, look, even if, even if you learned how to punch from Jon Jones on your first day, you wouldn't go out and win a match that night.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I mean? So I think it's like I always, I tell people this all the time, 1% better a day. Just 1%. That's what I'm looking for today. If I can be 1% better today than I was yesterday, well, that's 365% by the end of the year. And I do much every day. You know what I mean? So I always tell people, like, shooting or a skill like this is a marathon, not a sprint.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So it's better that's with everything, right? Yeah, I think so.

[A]

Yeah. You know so too.

[B]

And I tell you, you, like, you know, if you, if, if you think you're gonna have to pull a gun and save your family one day, you should be practicing a few times a week. Yeah. You know, and it doesn't have to be much, but you should be practicing a little bit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Getting this gun out shouldn't be a shock to you when the time comes because it's not going to come to you then, right? Yeah.

[A]

That's great advice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you enjoy teaching?

[B]

I love teaching. I love helping people. Now that I'm doing jits again, a lot of people want me to show them, like cars, guns and jits and guns. And I don't know if I'm ready to take my sanity pastime and turn it into work, you know what I'm saying? So I understand. I, I, I play with guns now, and a lot of guys have told me need to Be like, you know, like, the car bailouts, like, all this. Like, I do. I'm afraid to ruin Jiu Jitsu as work. So I've been. I've been reluctant and I always tell people I'll never teach Jiu Jitsu, but, like, I teach anyone everything. I mean, if we can get better today, let's talk about it.

[A]

One thing.

[B]

Try it.

[A]

Teaching Jiu Jitsu, though, is. I think it makes you better at Jiu Jitsu. I think it's selfish. It's like a good thing for you.

[B]

Well, okay, you know this. You're a black belt, right? Every day you went to a dojo, you were trying to hand that black belt his ass. And then you get your black belt, and now everyone, every day the rest of your life is trying to hand you your ass. You know what I mean? It's a fucking thankless job.

[A]

Yeah. No day where no one's trying to hand you.

[B]

Yeah, let's go.

[A]

That's the beautiful thing about Jiu Jitsu, too. You don't really. Yeah, you don't catch any breaks. You might get one day where there's like, oh, it's only blue belts here.

[B]

I love it when someone forces me into, like, real survival mode. Now. I'm not talking about, like, yeah, you know, you got a triangle and I'm just going to ride this. I'm talking like, someone, like, I'm like, I got to do something now. I love that, man. How are you?

[A]

How are you avoiding injuries?

[B]

Okay, so first and foremost, I started out. I don't even take Motrin. I try to take no drugs. After I got off the pills from the VA and started getting active and, you know, I tried not to take any medicines at all. I went to Master Worlds and are yoked up and the gear is out. You know what I mean? Like, these are working out since last year just to stroke a today, right? So, like, I was a little unprepared this year for Worlds in that aspect. But I'm all for the Peptides. I'm all for the tr. I'm not against any of it, per se. And. And I think that's a. I did the Peptides Tides. I just. I'm not. I don't. I don't like shots, like.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I won't give myself a shot.

[A]

You were talking about that on Sean Ryan show, you know, like, piercing your skin.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I don't like that. I don't know why. Right. Like, I know, it's so weird.

[A]

A guy who's been through everything that you've been through, like needles sketch me out.

[B]

I mean, just give it. It doesn't hurt. Like I'm not a about it, but it's like peptides are so easy though. I know. Well, I took the pills. I took the. I took the pill once.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And I'll tell you, like, super legit. Was it Gary Breca? That guy?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He talks about redheaded people. I'm a redheaded people. I got pale skin.

[A]

You know, redheaded people have better pain tolerance.

[B]

Yeah, I. Well, I take drugs different.

[A]

I think there's a thing about that though. See, Google that. Redheaded people have better pain.

[B]

My whole life I've taken drugs differently. Like I don't get Percocet, I get Dilauded. So I think like when you got.

[A]

Roofied, like, everybody else conked out.

[B]

Yeah, I'm just in over party mode.

[A]

You were also talking about on Sean's show that you take. You have the thing that Jamie has where you could take a lot of edibles and you don't feel it.

[B]

Oh yeah. The. The weed gummies are.

[A]

Some studies have found that redheads have a lower pain threshold, but other studies have found the opposite. Oh, okay. So it's all up.

[B]

Inconclusive.

[A]

Inconclusive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But yeah, depends on the individual.

[B]

So. But I will tell you this. It healed my stomach and my healing went from like a week or two to like four days.

[A]

BBC 157 is very legit.

[B]

Yeah. And then. So anyway, I want to do more in the future. I'd like to. I kind of want to do it all. Like, I mean, I'm. I'm 54, man.

[A]

Yeah, that's why I was asking you, like, are you do. What are you doing to avoid injuries?

[B]

Okay. So besides that, I do cardio. A couple years ago, my first elk hunt. My first elk bow hunt. You. We ride up to like 9,000ft and then like walked up three miles from there. Like, yo, I was 280 at one time. That was a hell of a walk for a big fat up that mountain. And then I hunt with these old guys. And then the two guys I was with, like, two of the guys have hearing aids and the other guns.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Huh?

[A]

From guns?

[B]

I don't know, they're just older.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. They're hunters, right? Yeah. So both of them got hearing aids. And the front one looks back to the second one. Both good friends of mine, like, and was like, turn your hearing aids down so you ain't gotta hear him breathe. So fucking Loud. And I'm like, I heard you, mother. Fuck you. Like, so I told myself like I was gonna start walking 30 minutes a day, and that was fucking hard. And then now I do like an hour of cardio. I could run, but I don't. But I started again. I need to be running a little bit for cardio. I treat strength as two to different things. I spent about a year with 15 pound dumbbells, just like rehabbing motion movement joints. And it was a lot of pain. And then, you know, now I'm, I'm getting stronger every day. I've been, you know, power athlete, Big John, But I kind of look at strength two different ways. I try to do strength days where it's like the traditional squats deads, like all the big ones, push pulls, all of it covered all. And then I see it as a conditioning assist, something separate. Right? And conditioning would be lighter weight, like crossfit, like round, like, right. Without. Without knowing how to say it better.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. But the steps, I'm going to tell you this, I'll tell anybody this. You want to start losing weight, it starts at 10,000 steps a day. Get your ass out there, start walking. And then the next thing I did is I went to a competition class by Sean's in Tennessee. And I got a diet, I got workouts, I got an app, I tracked my diet. I did right before Worlds, I was at 170 grams of protein, 1800 calories a day.

[A]

And you're very strict about it.

[B]

Yeah. And I shredded weight. I cut, I cut down. I was probably 240. I cut down to 222 as the smallest human being in the 222 because everyone's yoked up like Mad men. Well, my coaches were like, you know, and I can't believe I even listen to this, but they're like, man, it's the 55 bracket. Like, it's guys like you, this is their pastime, you know what I mean?

[A]

Today is not the same.

[B]

Yo, these would come. This is killer season out at this, you know what I mean? Like, I was unprepared for, man. I had this big Mongolian, you know, Edwin. Edwin Jammy, you know, Edwin. Edwin Gracie Barra. Tarzana, California, right. Edwin's like a jiu jitsu legend. He's at Worlds. Who's your coach? I didn't have a coach. Is me, my backpack and a gi. Let's get this fight going. And he's like, well, I'll coach you. And I'm like, okay. You know what I mean? I don't got a coach. And then, like, right before we walk out on the mat, he's like, yo, ref, are they the same weight class? And I'm like, yo, my man, Ed, this is my coach right here. My man. Like, you know what I mean? But, like, this dude was huge. And he was one of them Mongolian jacket wrestlers. You done this?

[A]

Oh, I've seen that.

[B]

I couldn't. I couldn't get the takedown. And then we went down on the ground. He hit me with a. Like, a paper cutter, popped my head out, tried to choke me again, got out of it. But as I was getting up, I knew I needed to keep this guy in the ground. But guess what, man? When you get in trouble, guess what you do? You stand the up and this dude stand up. And I knew I wasn't getting my two points back. And then I was just exhausted, like.

[A]

As gas decided to ramp up their conditioning.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, man. This year I'm winning where I'm world champion Joe. I'm the toughest old. I know. You know. God damn it. Let's go. I'm gonna figure this out. But I will tell you, I think what I didn't know is you got to train to compete, to compete well. And I fight and I want to fight, and I want to get smashed and I want to. I want to almost lose this fight 10 times to finally get that submission on you. And that's a great fight to me. And like, yo, yeah, yeah, you just lost 13 points on that, Right. And then if you don't get the submission, you just lost 13 points on that. You know what I mean? Like, so it's.

[A]

It's a different animal, treating it like the sport versus what you get out of it, what you like.

[B]

And I'll tell you, this is like, I probably could have changed the match if I would have pulled guard around three minutes in. I never pulled guard in my life. Like, what kind of pulls Guy guard. Well, I figured it out. I'll tell you what kind of. When you can't take a bigger down.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is maybe what pulling guards for. Or in the real world, walk the away.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Before you just get smashed out here, you know what I mean? Thinking you're something you ain't.

[A]

Do you spend a lot of time practicing off your back. Because a lot of times with big guys.

[B]

I'll start there. Get my neck. Let's go. You can't take. I will give you my back just to get out. I don't give a man.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

That's great. I always, like, honestly, when I. When I'm, like, when I'm just at the dojo, like girls or smaller people, right. Like, I try not to smash them, right? And. And I'll tell them, like, hey, if I get on top, just sweep me, right? Stay on top of me the whole time. And I just let them go at me, like.

[A]

Yeah, I would just pretend that I'm weak.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When I would roll with someone who's weak, I would pretend I'm weak. And, like, that's. I think that's the best way to do it. Like, no strength. I'm never going to use strength. Yeah, I think that's. Hixon always said that defense was more important than anything. He said.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I am always safe. No matter where I am, I am always safe.

[B]

Defense, you're. Hey, your Hixon is great, by the way. Dude. You see Choke?

[A]

You see the documentary?

[B]

I have not seen Choke, but I just finished his new book, the Dark One. Dark.

[A]

Dark.

[B]

Hixon came out with a new book. I just.

[A]

I just audiobooked because he's got Parkinson's now.

[B]

Yeah. But, you know, he's got the Breathe book, but he just came out with a new one. I just listened to it, like, last week. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah, but you gotta watch Choke. I got to one of the greatest documentaries of all time.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I've heard for a martial artist. Incredible. It's Hixon in his prime, competing in Japan, Valley Tudo. And just you see him training and doing his yoga and all the crazy breathing where his stomach sucks up inside him. I don't even know how to do that.

[B]

Yeah, he. When. When he was testing me, my purple belt, he was like, yes, yes. Yeah. When. When I lay on the ground, I am flat. He's like, when you lay on the ground, you are not flat. You should roll more. I'm like, hey, are you. I know you know enough English just to call me fat, you know what I mean? But God damn, roll more. Yeah, I should roll. Yeah. And he's. He's showing me, like, rolls from side control, getting out of stuff because. Because I am more round than I am flat. And it's kind of like, you know, fat guys should roll more. It's hard to stop, you know?

[A]

Right.

[B]

So he had. There's some real wisdom in there, you know what I mean? But it's like, I always, like how, like, they know enough English to insult you, but they'll say it, like their way, you know? Yes.

[A]

You just being practical.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. No, it's just real talk. And that's what he does.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's pretty cool getting your purple belt from that guy.

[B]

I am the only person, so. Okay. I had to do the paperwork. You know, there's other, like, big time hicks and black belts out there that kind of police up all everybody. So when you go to Worlds or you fight, you know, like these guys and they told me they would. They'd get me under their paperwork, but literally, I did the paperwork with IBJJF and I sent it to Hickson and he filled out the paperwork, but, like, I didn't know I sent him the paperwork. And it's like one of them forms where you just sign it with your finger on your phone, like, super easy. I sent it to Hickory and I was like, hey, Coach, we got a form, we got a sign. And he's not. He's not a member of any of these organizations anymore. So, like, I didn't know how this would go. And they, like, sent me a paper copy and they're like, have Mr. Gracie sign this signature, right? So I text it to Hicks and I'm like, hey, Coach, can you sign my paperwork for Worlds real quick? And he texted me right back, and he's like, hey, champ, I'm looking for a printer now. As soon as I find one, I'll sign this. And I was just thinking, I don't even know who's got a printer. I don't even have a printer in my house. Like, if Hixon's looking for a printer, I think he just told me no. You know what I mean? Like, like. And then, like a couple days later, he sent it back to me. Signed, right? I think probably his wife was like, oh, Hickson. Yeah, look, you know what I mean?

[A]

Like, I just.

[B]

I just didn't think. I think he kind of didn't know. But he got back to me, and then they sent me. I had to do this a few times. And then I was the only guy. I'm the only belted guy fighting under Hicks in. In Masters, right? Wow. Yeah.

[A]

That's pretty cool.

[B]

Yeah. And then I would say this for Jiu Jitsu, for me is like, I'm so glad it is where it is these days, because back in the day, I mean, think about this. Back in the day, I travel all the time. I'm in a different dojo weekly. You know, I might be here for four days. I try to get three days of jits. I'm in Waco, I'm going to places I've been in 26 different DOJOs this year. Like doing jits back in the day. That was cronte. You know what I mean? Monsters in Portuguese, right? Because you don't have no loyalty. You don't have no fucking. And the reality is like, yeah, I'm just never home, right. I don't want to be unloyal to anybody. I'm loyal to everybody, but I just want to get rounds. And I'm so glad the jiu jitsu world is so fucking welcoming these days. Meaning like, like I don't have to show up and fight. Right.

[A]

Much open minded.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're happy to welcome people from other schools.

[B]

The only, the only, the only person that was like, why are you here? Was a cyborg at fight sports.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah. You know Cyborg? Yeah, sure, he's great. And you know, you know Roosevelt Savage, you know Roosevelt, the tall guy that hangs out with him?

[A]

I don't.

[B]

Tallest black belt I ever seen. Tallest Brazilian I ever seen, Right? So he's one of the black belts down there with, with, with him, with Cyborg. And I'm out there and then like at the time I was blue belt, you know what I mean? And I was probably, I don't know, 250. I was kind of fat. And like, fight sports is like old school br. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, where we're gonna shrimp across the mat. We do all this, I don't give a if you lose Jiu jitsu today. But you're gonna be tough, right? So it's that kind of.

[A]

And that's how Carlson Gracie's was.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Before you even got to the class, you were exhausted.

[B]

Yeah, the class hasn't started yet. Right. So I'm out on the mat, I'm breathing hard, I'm just kind of doing my thing. And Roosevelt, the big tall black belt, comes over and he was like, man, he's like, you are my inspiration. I'm like, I am, coach, I'm your inspiration. He's like, yes. He's like, you are out here, you are doing this, man. He was like, you are everyone's inspiration. And I'm looking around and like everyone's rolling like, and then, and then like everyone stops because, like, he's talking to me, you know what I mean? And like every now everyone's looking at me and I'm like, what in the fuck is going on? Right? So he was like, you are here, you are doing this. You were old. You are my inspiration. And I'm like, thanks, coach. I was like. And then like, I Didn't need a break. But I was like, after that talk, maybe I do need a break. So I was like, maybe I do need a break, coach, you know? And he was like, okay, fix your gi. So I fix my gear, tie my belt. He's like, run laps around the practice until you're ready to practice again. It was like, man, that's worse. I wasn't. I didn't even need the break. And he gave me the old speech, so I agreed. And then like, and then I had a run. I thought the was more embarrassing running laps around everybody, right? But like, like when he said he wanted to give me a break, like the break says like, screech to a halt. Everybody was like, did he just say, like, does that guy. Why the does that guy get a break? You know what I mean?

[A]

Your break was do lapse.

[B]

Yeah, and. Yeah. And then h cyberg came up to me and they didn't. I didn't have a gi yet. I hadn't bought a gi and I hadn't found a ghee to fit me, so I had, I just bought a gi. But I only had a white belt, right? I. I got the GI at Gracie Raleigh, my home dojo, right? And then they only had a white belt, so I had a white belt. So I was white belt in it, but really I was a blue belt, so. And when it came to Roland, Cyborg is like, who are you, man? I'm like, coach. And he's like, who are you, man? Who are you?

[A]

I thought you like a spy.

[B]

Yeah. He's like, why are you here? And I'm like, I just, I just. Well, my brother lives here, coach. And I called ahead of time and I asked if I could come do jiu jitsu. I'm just trying to get a coup couple days while I'm on the road. He's like, man, you are no white belt. Who are you? What are you doing here? And I was like, well, I'm actually a blue belt, coach. And he was like, why didn't you. And then they got a wall of like old belts, which is like the coolest thing I ever seen. Like a hundred, just old, different, all kinds of belts. It's cool as in my opinion. But he was like, why didn't you get one off the extra belt? And I was like, oh, you didn't have one, coach? And he thinks a second. He was like, you are right. There's not one your size on the wall. And I was like, holy, There's a ton of belts there for him to Even know that. Like, cuz I went through all of them and couldn't fit one, you know? And he was like, okay. You know, he was just concerned you.

[A]

Were sandbagging or trying to get him.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. And then. But they were great with me. Like, shout out to Cyborg and Roosevelt.

[A]

Hard dudes.

[B]

Yeah, they're. They're hard down thereocha.

[A]

All those guys down there.

[B]

But I've been in 26, I think 26 dojos this year, man.

[A]

That's wild. And so you're all in.

[B]

I'm all in, man. I'm in. I'm in all the time. And then like, so one of the things is like, I can only go to Hixon to get promoted because I'm never in one dojo long enough, right, to like earn a stripe or earn a. So I think it's like, I don't know, I feel like I'm fortunate of where I am. You know what I mean? And then, honestly, the reason I went to Hixon is because I could. And I figured if I need to be tested for a belt. Yeah, like, who else should test me? You know what I mean?

[A]

When you get your black belt, you get a black belt from Hicks, and it's like there's very few black belts that hold that kind of weight. Yeah, there's like Enzo.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Jean Jacques Machado. There's a few of those, like, old school legendary belts.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Megaton Diaz. It's like a few of those legendary old school belts, you know?

[B]

Yeah. Hegan.

[A]

Yeah. Hegan.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I love Hegan.

[B]

I know. I love.

[A]

I actually was Higgins corner guy when he was in Abu Dhabi in 2003. I was. You were yelling his time out. Yeah, because I was there with Eddie Bravo.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[A]

You know, we all trained at the Machado, so I know Hegan. And then he goes, like, my friend, do. Do the time for me. And so, like, he was like, he was kind of out of shape and he's still people up, but he wanted to know, like, give me. Tell me when there's like a minute to go so I could really hit the gas. Like, I want to coast for a little bit and then decide when to go.

[B]

Yeah, I love it. I call it like, I call it fat guy jiu jitsu. And I think people are shocked when I say that term, but really, it's. It's like the. I don't know, the Danaher ageless stuff. There's. There's stuff that bigger guys less Athletic, right, Are gonna have to do. Because they can't do a flying whatever. They can't, you know what I mean? And like, I love his Smash game. And I. So I was at a, I went to the Machado camp. It was him, Roger, Carlos and John. Oh, John Machado. I love that guy too. You know John, sure. He carries, he carries condom holsters.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Yeah, he's great, man. But I went to their summer camp and I was like, hey, can I get a picture? And like he was sitting on the couch and Carlos is like, you know, typical bigger brother, get the up, you're lazy, kind of dogging them. So I was like, I was like, you don't have to get up, coach. So I sat on his lap and he was like, what the fuck? That's hilarious. Yeah, I went to a Machado camp this year. I spent a lot of time with Rafael Lovato.

[A]

I love that dude.

[B]

That guy's a legend. Yeah, he is. I got invited to Philippe Acosta's kind of and affiliate training with Raphael. Like shout out to Raphael. He's a fuck. Amazing. Every one of his black belts gave me time, like. And then Philippe Acosta, like just next level, man. And look, it gives me hope as an old guy. Like, I know I'm 55 and I know I want to win the 55 year old bracket, but why the do I need to be in the 55 year old bracket, you know what I mean? If my Jiu Jitsu is good enough, I should be able to fight anyone, right? And that's what gives me hope of carrying on that one day. Like, because you know, all I do is fight these young guys. And yeah, sure they beat me right now, but like, you know, how many times did Helio get crushed, right? You know what I'm saying? So like, it's the beauty of Jiu Jitsu is the age should be the least in this equation. You know what I mean? So that's kind of where I stand. And I'll tell you man, anytime someone can put it to me where I'm about to go down, I couldn't be happier, man. I had this black belt the other day out of no where, just smash me. And like, and then he lets, I tap, he lets me up and now I'm just got the biggest smile on my face. And he was like looking at me and I was like, that was amazing, coach. I was like, you ain't never smashed me like that, right? And he, he just kind of looking at me. I just tackled him again, you Know what I mean? Went right back to smashing me, you know what I mean? Like, I just love it, man.

[A]

That's the best attitude for learning. There's no better.

[B]

Well, I. As a human being, I need to learn something every day. I think you're the same way in a lot of ways. Like, I don't care what it is.

[A]

I think it's good for you.

[B]

Yeah, I do, too. I think it keeps your brain healthy 100%. I think it keeps Alzheimer, all that bullshit away.

[A]

Yeah. I think that's why people get old. It's one of the reasons, other than your body failing, is your mind gets old.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're not stimulating it.

[B]

Yeah. For real, right?

[A]

John, this is a awesome conversation.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

I really appreciate it. Yeah, I had a great time.

[B]

Yeah. Thank you.

[A]

And I can't wait to read your book, so.

[B]

Okay. I'm gonna get some rounds in the future when you're healthy.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

All right. I'd love to get some rounds with you. For sure. I definitely want to come back. Kill Tony last night. Fucking amazing. It's like, bucket list.

[A]

You come to the club anytime you want, man.

[B]

I couldn't thank you enough. Like, I know I came here yesterday. Not a big deal to me. Right? Because, like, yo, I got killed Tony out of this deal. Like, last night was funny, man. This guy told a joke last night and funnies joke I think I ever heard in my life. I don't know if I could say it or not.

[A]

There was.

[B]

There was a guy, just kind of shorter guy, a white guy, beard. And he just read jokes. He just said, like random jokes.

[A]

I was one of the bucket poles.

[B]

Yeah. As a bucket pole guy. And then like, he said this joke. You want to hear?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Okay. This is the fucking funniest thing I heard in a long time. Why don't police have turtles as pets?

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because you can't kneel on their neck. I was like, oh, God, like, next level right there.

[A]

Well, listen, brother, anytime you want to come to the club, thanks. You're more than welcome. Thank you very much for being here.

[B]

Oh, man, anytime.

[A]

It was a great conversation. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for all the swag. Thanks for letting me hold the evil hat.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I gotta put it back in.

[A]

Its box if people want to find you online. Sheriff. A bet. Baghdad.com.

[B]

Sheriff of Baghdad. SOB Tactical. Either one will get you to me. Like, you just. You die, you. You type in Sheri Baghdad and a ton of of me pops up and someone.

[A]

Whoever the publisher is. Yeah, hop on it. I'M sure.

[B]

Hit me up.

[A]

I'm sure. That book's insane. All right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Thank you very much, brother. Appreciate you. All right, bye, everybody.