#2242 - Bert Sorin

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Joe Rogan Experience #2242 - Bert Sorin

Release Date: December 12, 2024

Hosts:

• Joe Rogan
• Bert Sorin

Overview: In episode #2242 of The Joe Rogan Experience, host Joe Rogan engages in an extensive and dynamic conversation with guest Bert Sorin. The discussion traverses a wide array of topics, including innovative gym equipment, athletic training methodologies, Jiu-Jitsu insights, steroid legalization, personal experiences with hunting, and the pervasive influence of social media and government policies. The episode is rich with anecdotes, technical insights, and thought-provoking opinions, making it a compelling listen for both regular followers and newcomers.

---

1. Introduction to Innovative Gym Equipment

Timestamp: [00:17] - [01:13]

The episode kicks off with Joe complimenting Bert on the exceptional athletic equipment Bert brought to the gym. They discuss the X Factor, an advanced rotational power machine developed by Sorenex.

• Joe Rogan: "The idea that you could push and pull a rotational power machine... it's a genius idea."
• Bert Sorin: "It's big."

They delve into the machine's benefits for striking sports, emphasizing its ability to stabilize the core while enhancing strike power.

• Joe Rogan: "You're definitely gonna be able to deliver more power in strikes."

2. Athletic Training and Jiu-Jitsu Insights

Timestamp: [01:13] - [17:28]

The conversation shifts to athletic training, specifically focusing on Jiu-Jitsu. Joe and Bert discuss the importance of drilling techniques to achieve a "flow state," citing legendary practitioners like Eddie Bravo and Gordon Ryan.

• Joe Rogan: "Gordon trains 365 days a year. He's open about it."
• Bert Sorin: "It's not like he's not talented. He's got all those attributes already."

They explore the balance between strength and technique, arguing that while strength is advantageous, technical prowess often trumps sheer power in martial arts.

3. Steroid Legalization and Its Impact

Timestamp: [05:11] - [06:25]

Bert brings up the historical context of steroid legality, attributing the criminalization of steroids to political figures.

• Joe Rogan: "It was all Joe Biden. That motherfucker."
• Bert Sorin: "Up until '91, steroids weren't even illegal as a controlled substance."

They discuss the implications of steroid legalization on athletic performance and the ethical considerations surrounding its use.

4. Physical Injuries and Rehabilitation Techniques

Timestamp: [06:25] - [32:09]

The duo delves into personal experiences with physical injuries related to sports, sharing stories about knee surgeries, ACL reconstructions, and innovative rehabilitation methods like electrical muscular stimulation.

• Joe Rogan: "I have two bows... pulling these 90-pound bows a hundred times a day."
• Bert Sorin: "I'm running 16s... image stabilizing."

They emphasize the importance of disciplined rehabilitation and the role of advanced technologies in recovery.

5. Hunting Experiences and Techniques

Timestamp: [32:09] - [46:35]

Joe and Bert share their hunting adventures, discussing traditional bows, rangefinders, and the integration of technology in hunting practices. They recount stories from Montana, Alaska, and Namibia, highlighting the challenges and rewards of hunting large game like elk and buffalo.

• Joe Rogan: "My first buck was life-changing. It was October 2012 in Montana."
• Bert Sorin: "We donated the meat to the local village. They were super stoked."

The conversation touches on ethical hunting practices and the cultural significance of hunting in providing sustenance.

6. Social Media, Censorship, and Government Influence

Timestamp: [46:35] - [65:12]

The episode takes a critical turn as Joe and Bert discuss the role of social media in shaping public perception, censorship, and government overreach. They express concerns about the suppression of free speech and the manipulation of information for political gains.

• Joe Rogan: "Social media is not the problem. The problem is engaging in the anger and the hate."
• Bert Sorin: "If you could learn Jiu-Jitsu with a guy who's small, you're going to learn the best Jiu-Jitsu."

They debate the impact of platforms like Twitter and the implications of high-profile acquisitions, such as Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter, on freedom of expression.

7. Combat Sports and Historical Fighter Anecdotes

Timestamp: [65:12] - [88:55]

Joe and Bert reminisce about legendary fighters like Muhammad Ali, Rampage Jackson, and modern MMA champions. They analyze pivotal fights, discussing the technicalities and the physical toll of combat sports.

• Joe Rogan: "Ali suffered two blood clots and an infection from the Inoki fight."
• Bert Sorin: "Charles Oliveira had eight losses before becoming a champion. The UFC is the peak of fighting."

Their dialogue underscores the relentless nature of combat sports and the fine line between glory and physical degradation.

8. Diet, Cooking Techniques, and Carnivore Lifestyle

Timestamp: [88:55] - [119:59]

The conversation transitions to dietary habits, with a focus on the carnivore diet. Joe shares his passion for meat-centric meals, discussing the nutritional benefits and cooking methods for wild game.

• Joe Rogan: "I've had some friends listen to my podcasts, and now they're embracing a carnivore lifestyle."
• Bert Sorin: "I enjoy heart and liver. They're great for nutrition."

They exchange recipes and discuss the significance of freshly hunted meat versus store-bought, emphasizing the superior flavor and health benefits.

• Joe Rogan: "Reverse sear on hardwood grills... that's the best way for wild game."
• Bert Sorin: "Senor Lechuga's hot sauces are a game-changer."

9. Personal Anecdotes and Reflections on Life’s Challenges

Timestamp: [119:59] - [176:33]

In the latter part of the episode, Joe and Bert reflect on personal challenges, such as overcoming physical injuries, balancing passion with personal life, and the psychological aspects of striving for greatness.

• Joe Rogan: "You can get caught up in one goal to the point where you miss out on a giant chunk of life."
• Bert Sorin: "Every man has the same question: Am I good enough?"

They discuss the importance of self-awareness, maintaining balance, and knowing when to persevere versus when to step back to preserve overall well-being.

10. Closing Thoughts and Equipment Endorsements

Timestamp: [176:33] - [216:36]

As the discussion winds down, Joe expresses gratitude for the gym equipment Bert provided, highlighting its versatility and impact on his training regimen.

• Joe Rogan: "Sorenex.com... keep me from going nuts."
• Bert Sorin: "We're relaunching the Frankenhyper module. Bring your old one, and I'll install the new one."

They conclude with endorsements of their respective brands and a final exchange of camaraderie, underscoring the bond formed through shared interests and experiences.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Rogan [01:43]: "Gordon Ryan's dedication is unmatched. Train 365 days a year."
• Bert Sorin [05:47]: "Steroid legalization was a mistake that continues to haunt athletics."
• Joe Rogan [10:42]: "My first buck was a life-changing experience."
• Bert Sorin [19:08]: "Strength without technique is a dead-end in martial arts."
• Joe Rogan [32:09]: "Electrical muscular stimulation has revolutionized my rehabilitation process."
• Bert Sorin [65:12]: "The UFC represents the pinnacle of combat sports, but at a tremendous physical cost."

Conclusion: Episode #2242 of The Joe Rogan Experience featuring Bert Sorin is a treasure trove of insights into athletic training, the complexities of combat sports, ethical hunting practices, and the intricate interplay between social media and societal norms. Joe and Bert's candid conversation provides listeners with a deep dive into maintaining physical prowess, navigating personal challenges, and understanding the broader implications of modern technological and political landscapes.

---

For more information on the X Factor machine, visit sorenex.com. Follow Bert Sorin on Instagram @BertSoren.

Transcript

[A]

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

[B]

The Joe Rogan Experience Train my day. Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[A]

What's going on, man?

[B]

Good to see you, man.

[A]

Thank you very much for that extraordinary piece of athletic equipment you brought to the gym.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Is there a photo of that so we could show people what it looks like?

[B]

Yeah, it should be on the website. X Factor.

[A]

And what is it called?

[B]

It's called the X Factor.

[A]

Oh, it's called the X Factor. What is the website? Sorenex.com go to sorenex.com check out the X Factor.

[B]

So it's actually. Pull it up, Jamie.

[A]

Pull it up, Jim. Isn't it nice to say that?

[B]

Yes, man. I'm telling you, it's big.

[A]

So this is the machine.

[B]

Yeah, it's actually Judd who was here a minute ago.

[A]

Yeah, it's a brilliant machine, man. The idea that you could push and pull rotational, rotational power machine. It really is a genius idea, man. And for things like striking sports, that's huge. Like the ability to push and pull at the same time while stabilizing your core. I mean that is undoubtedly gonna help people. Like it's. You're definitely gonna be able to deliver more power in strikes.

[B]

Right. Because you take the ground force and then be able to put it through obviously with the core access all three planes of motion. All we've obviously go through your core and then puts it into your. Either your feet or your, your arms.

[A]

It's just so unusual that you can do something like that. I mean, I guess you kind of can do something like that with cables with the cable machine. But that seems better. Yeah. Because you have a little bit of.

[B]

A balance component as well. But, but you're right. Like you're blocking, let's say you're a right hander. You're blocking on that left leg. You're stabilizing out the right hamstring and hip. But yeah, especially when you get that little extra extension. I call it the riblets right there, your obliques. It just locks everything in. So I'm interested to see what you come up with.

[A]

It's pretty dope. And you were telling me that this was originally like you came up with this idea from an older machine. That's not.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So we've, we. You know, I've been in this industry a long time and as well as you have, but it's kind of taken a remastered series where we're taking all like the cool stuff that was. Could have been our designs, but it could have been just old Designs are just, like, kind of lost to the ages. And you're like, hey, that was a cool piece, but it sucked because you had to load it weird. Or it was like, maybe wasn't as safe as it could have been. And so it's like, let's. Let's break the whole thing apart, figure out what was good about it. And then that was, like, the eighth iteration. We just kept playing with it. And then it was like, when you realized the double axis is what made the user experience cool, then it was like, okay, this is badass. And, you know, I sent that video to you. And then a couple colleges have already bought them. And then Ryan Krauser, the world champion and record holder in the shop, put was like, yeah, like, this is all rotational power. How do we turn that on?

[A]

Yeah, it's so cool today because there's so much social media and there's so much. So many videos and YouTube videos of people using equipment. Like, 15, 20 years ago, you had to go to a gym and go, oh, what is that? Oh, that's cool. Where'd you get that? How's that work?

[B]

The big guy in the gym, you had to, like, go, hey, what's the deal?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You and I grew up in the same era where we're going to gyms all the time, and there's a bunch of quacks telling you to do stuff.

[A]

Always. Yeah. And then there's a bro scientist. Shotel.

[B]

Bro scientist.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then. And then you just like, hey, if that guy's really good at something, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Back in the day, I would. After I compete, probably much like you, after I compete, I would get whoever was better than me, and I would offer to take him out to dinner, and I would just go, hey, Like, I feed them beers until they basically told me how they beat me. Just like, well, how much are you cleaning? Or what are you doing? Then I would pick up some little idiosyncrasy of training, and they're like, oh, we would do this contrast. And I'm like, what's that? And I would just keep digging and digging and digging. I'd go back and figure it out.

[A]

Well, I remember when I was competing, they would tell you to not lift weights, which is so hilarious.

[B]

You don't get.

[A]

They used to say that. They used to say, it will slow you down and you'll become tight.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I remember thinking, like, why don't you just stretch if you're tight? Yeah.

[B]

So more horsepower makes the car slower.

[A]

It didn't make any Sense to me, it's like they thought that the only exercises you should do is martial arts itself. Just hit the bag, you know, train. Now, when do you.

[B]

When do you think that. Well, you got, you know, Bruce Lee would do. I mean, he did some exercise.

[A]

Did a lot of isometrics.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And he had some lifting, but it was always pretty light. But where would you say was the. When that changed?

[A]

I think it was Evander Holyfield. I think it was Mackie Shilstone trained Evander Holyfield when he went up to heavyweight. And I remember myself at the time. So this was in the 90s. I remember thinking, what is he doing? He's lifting. He's gonna. Himself up. Don't doesn't he know that? All these coaches have already figured it out, right? And then all of a sudden, Evander got all these traps and, dude, he was trapped. And Delta out, he got jacked and he became a legitimate heavyweight also. Pretty sure there were some Mexican supplements involved.

[B]

Yeah, he might have gone across the border. I mean, I'm not.

[A]

I think it's a strong.

[B]

It was the 90s. The 90s are a good time.

[A]

I think it's a strong possibility there was some help because also, like, you never heard of anybody tested positive for steroids back then?

[B]

No.

[A]

And I know for a fact that some of those guys were on steroids.

[B]

I would not disagree.

[A]

I know people who know people and.

[B]

You know, I mean, we're all.

[A]

I would fucking put it all on black.

[B]

Yeah, well, because up until 91, steroids weren't even illegal as a controlled substance.

[A]

Do you know who caused it to be illegal? Joe Biden.

[B]

No shit.

[A]

Yep. That motherfucker. It was all him. Yeah. You know, Derek from More Plates, More Dates was telling us about it the other day. I'm like, that motherfucker. He did it.

[B]

That should be alone a reason why?

[A]

Well, I guess the idea is that people could abuse it. Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Here's the deal, folks. You can abuse almost everything.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

This is my argument against online gambling. You know, there's a lot of people that think online gambling should be banned because so many people are losing money on online gambling. Shut the fuck up. Do you know how easy it is to not online gamble? It's so easy. You know how easy it is? I've never online gambled.

[B]

It makes two of us.

[A]

That's how easy it is to not online gamble.

[B]

I probably forget my password to get into the thing, but yeah, like, I'm.

[A]

Not discounting the fact that gambling is addictive. I Personally know gambling addicts. One of my best friends, Dana White, is a fucking gambling addict. He happens to be insanely wealthy, so he can get away with it, but that helps. I grew up in pool halls. I know gambling addicts. I get it. I'm not one. So it's possible to like fucking have some self control and discipline and willpower.

[B]

The weird thing, I've never done crack either.

[A]

Crazy. It's. Do you know crack is everywhere and it's a scourge of humanity. I've never done crack.

[B]

You know, it's really weird. I'm so. I've never even seen crack.

[A]

I've seen it.

[B]

Yeah. I saw cocaine once in my entire life, which is wild. Based on that is pretty. I know a lot of people and it's like, yeah. Like, did they just think I would just say no to that? Because I grew up in the 80s just say no generation.

[A]

But I haven't seen.

[B]

I didn't think it was like a real thing.

[A]

Since I was in high school. I've never. I really. Yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of crazy because I know so many people who do coke. Yeah. But I was at a party in high school the last time I saw someone doing coke.

[B]

No way.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

In your world.

[A]

Yeah, my world. This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Craven the Hunter. Craven the Hunter is now playing and it's a bloody, badass R rated action movie that must be seen on the big screen. Aaron Taylor Johnson is Craven, whose father is a crime boss played by Russell Crowe. Craven becomes a hunter with a list of people that he's decided needs to be stopped. And once you're on his list, you're dead. Craven the Hunter is now playing exclusively in movie theaters. Get your tickets now. Yeah, why don't. I don't do anything like that. I don't ever fuck around. I've never done coke. I never even thought about doing it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Never had a desire because I was around people that were abusing it when I was in high school. So I was like, okay.

[B]

Do you think that's because you're such like a strong personality and like kind of role model that people are like, hey, Joe's not into that. Like, keep it away from him. Do you think they're like respectful of that and just kind of know the deal?

[A]

They just know I don't want it? Yeah, I think so. I'm just not interested in anything that gives me more confidence. I'm not interested in that. I got plenty of that. I like humility I'm looking for humility. I don't like confidence boosters. I don't like anything that gives you, like, a ridiculous sense of, like, your abilities. Like, I'm not. I'd rather be humble. I'm not interested in.

[B]

I mean, delusion is a. Is a strong. Is a strong suit if you sometimes. Yeah, no, and it could get. Get your bound up, too.

[A]

Definitely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think it gets you pretty far, and then your wheels come off.

[B]

It's like when you're skateboarding when you're a kid.

[A]

Have you ever seen a guy on a motorcycle? And you see when they do that and you're like, no.

[B]

It's like, yeah, Josh rolling on it the other day, that was like, what he did in Goonies. Remember? He had the little bike.

[A]

Oh, that's right.

[B]

He was talking about the motorcycle. And all I could think about is my head is him flying off the cliff in Goonies.

[A]

Oh, that's hilarious. I forgot he was in Goonies.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I should have brought that up. We could have. We should have wanted to bring it up so bad.

[B]

I was on the plane.

[A]

My tongue.

[B]

The whole time I was riding a plane. I was like, all I could see is that cat in sweatpants with his shorts on top of his sweatpants riding a tricycle or whatever down this hill.

[A]

Because he's one of the rare guys that was like a child actor. That turned out really awesome.

[B]

Yeah, that's a. That's a. That's a small club.

[A]

That's a super small club.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because everybody that I know, and I know a few people personally that were famous as a young person, they're out of their fucking mind. They're just. They're like. You know what I say? It's like, look at him.

[B]

Hey, I have a good memory. Look at me.

[A]

How old was he back then? He's probably 17 or 18. That's so crazy. Well, he's two years younger than me. 85. In 85, I was 18. So he's probably like.

[B]

Well, the 80s, not so awesome.

[A]

Hades were pretty cool, except everybody's worried that Russia was going to blow us up.

[B]

The true story. Yeah, Yeah, I remember 85. I believe it was 85. Going to. I know. Obviously we're both into archery, so. 85. Rambo first blood part two came out. Pops took me to the movie theater. He and I saw it, and we went straight from there to the archery shop. My first bow that day.

[A]

Really?

[B]

I still have it.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah, it's awesome. I still have some of the same arrows no shit. Yeah. I strangely don't lose things. But yeah, I remember in the backyard shooting because, like, he kind of half taught me. And then I was in the backyard zinging arrows and thinking, like, if I had explosive tips, like, how badass would this be?

[A]

I went to Lanai and you know, they have the Pineapple Brothers has that archery and I brought my whole family. And then they also have this area where you can go and you can like shoot, ski, and you drive like four four wheelers up in the mountains. And then they had like traditional archery, like bows and arrows. And I was like, oh, let me try this. I don't know how to fucking aim. I'm terrible at it. I was like, I'm a good archer, I should be good at this. Or I thought I could barely hit the fucking target from 20 yards away.

[B]

It's like the science and the art, two different things.

[A]

They're totally, totally different.

[B]

Yeah. I've always said, like, the guys that are traditional hunters, you know, trad guys, they're either weirdos or they're absolute killers.

[A]

Right. It's like Aaron Snyder type dudes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who are so good at compound archery, they get tired of it.

[B]

Yeah. Or they're weird guys that smell like sausage and live in their mom's basement and they're like. You're like, I. Yeah, I know you do that. But you probably go to like ren fairs and stuff too. So I'm not sure. What's the deal?

[A]

Well, at archery country, you know, the local archery shop here in town, whenever I get a new bow or I get a new site and I have to site it in, we go to their. They have an indoor range and a lot of times in the indoor range, there's these dorks. Sorry, folks. Dorks with recurves. And they're fucking. They're at 20 yards, they're spread is like my arm length.

[B]

It's wild.

[A]

Barely hitting the target. Don't do that. This is stupid.

[B]

You don't. You don't shoot like a, like a cardinal direction. I'm shooting east today.

[A]

Well, I. When they get good, like, I've seen Schneider, like groups at 40 that are like the size of a silver dollar. But most people struggle pretty hardcore. But they say also that if you do want to hunt with it, you have to practice every day because it's almost like throwing a ball. Like, you know, if you're throwing a ball, you know how much the ball weighs because you throw it a bunch of times. And you have like this muscle memory that if I Throw that hard at 20 yards, I'm going to hit that thing.

[B]

Yeah, it's like a quarterback. Like quarterbacks. I know a couple of my buddies were college quarterbacks. They're all good trad archers because they kind of like have that hand eye spatial. They know the curve. Yeah, but you gotta be on. My buddy got into it. Brandon Lilly, Powerlifter, he got into it and he. All he hunted with for a couple years was trad. That cat went like Argentina and Africa. Just nuts in a sack with. He's like, no, I'm going to trad bow. I'm like, okay, man.

[A]

I'm always like, do you hate accuracy?

[B]

No, he got it done. But holy cow.

[A]

Like, no, but there's something about dialing it into like 47 years. Drawing back and centering your pan and just watching that shot break and watch that arrow go exactly where you want it to go and swap and hit those ribs.

[B]

Just the dopamine button of all time.

[A]

It's the greatest.

[B]

It is. It does. Can you see the air? Does it slow down when you shoot at animals like it does for me? It looks like there's no way this arrow is ever going to get to. It's like everything in my brain, it's like that book the Rise of Superman. When you go in a flow state and like everything speeds up in your brain. So actually the would be the perception all. All lengthens out. They say your brain actually starts firing three times faster the little pictures. So that's why the. It slows down. This morning I watched that arrow just right handed turn. I'm like that, that deer is going to move. And it was only 27 yards. But I'm watching. But when I'm shooting targets, I'm just like, man, whatever.

[A]

I don't seem to think that. No.

[B]

Really?

[A]

No.

[B]

I always think it takes forever to get to the animal.

[A]

No, I'm trying to think of when do things slow down for me. No Jiu jitsu, no jujitsu. Just when you're really in a good state. It's just almost like you're not thinking. It's like all of a sudden you have an armbar. It's like.

[B]

So it is a flow state.

[A]

Yeah, just a complete flow state. But it's a flow state that's established after, you know, thousands of hours of drilling. And that's the most important thing in Jiu jitsu really is drilling. Everybody loves to roll. Cause it's so fun, you know, because it's like you're playing a video game. You're trying to kill each other, but the really important thing is drilling. And drilling with like a certain amount of rigor, like a certain amount of speed and intensity. You know, you're not trying to hurt each other, but you're drilling with like, intention so that your body is complet accustomed to these movements. Like your, your body recognizes these movements. And like, you slap that elbow, grab that armpit, get that arm drag, and you get the choke. It's almost like it happens before you even know it's happening. Because your brain is so just, it's just wired in there. Your, your, your, your whole nervous system knows exactly what to do.

[B]

It's like a cascading effect, like if then kind of deal. Now is that super slow drilling, then you just go to speed?

[A]

No, no, I think the correct way to drill is you drill with a little resistance from your partner. Like, you don't want to put your partner to go limp on you.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But just a slight amount of, like you have good partners, a slight amount of resistance, but then go through those motions with like a little bit of speed, but not, not like full blast.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But the whole idea is just get those numbers in. Bam, bam, bam. Eddie Bravo is the best explanation for this. He says, you know, when you tie your shoe, you don't think about tying your shoe. You just go, bing. And your shoe just ties.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Right. Because you tie your shoes every fucking day.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know exactly how to tie your shoes. Once you learn how to tie your shoes, just bing. He goes, that's what a jiu jitsu move is like. It just gets in there and you don't, sometimes you don't know what's happening until it's happened. Like all of a sudden you have a triangle. Like, whoa. Like shit.

[B]

Yeah, that was helpful.

[A]

Yeah, it's just, it's just you've done it so many times that when someone overextends or when someone gives up their neck or it just cinches up. It's just one of those things where your whole nervous system is just pre programmed to these very specific movements.

[B]

Yeah. So you've taken all these little closed skills which are replicatable, and then put them in an open format where like the if then scenario, like the flow chart just says, boom, go, go, go, go. No go.

[A]

And the best guys are the guys that drill constantly and then also study and take notes. Like, like Gordon Ryan. That's his belt out there. Oh, That's Gordon trains 365 days a year. 365 days a year. And so he doesn't take any days off. He doesn't. And he trains all fucking day long. So if you want to beat him, good luck. Because you have to catch those numbers, you have to bypass those numbers somehow. It's not like he's not talented. It's not. He's not intelligent, it's not. He's not physically strong. So he's got all those attributes already.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then you have this insane work ethic along with dedication to technique.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which is.

[B]

And you'd have years or decades to catch up.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You just can't.

[A]

And so there's too many guys in Jiu Jitsu that were just like big muscle heads that would just like muscle a move and just give a lot of grunt. And you're never going to beat a technique guy who's just as strong as you.

[B]

Right. If that uses less percentage of their power and everything to get the same job done.

[A]

Also knows exactly where to be. Like you. You might not know exactly where to be because you've gotten away with a lot of stuff because you're big, you know, because you're big and you're strong and you've pushed through stuff like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like big guys on their back. Like there's a lot of big guys. They get on their back and they become turtles. They don't know what to do because they never get put on their back. Because if they're training. If you're a guy who's £250 and you're in a normal Jiu Jitsu gym, what are the odds there's another 250 pound guy there? Most guys are 190, 200 maybe there's a 210.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There's not a lot of really big.

[B]

Guys, but six, three, two five zero.

[A]

It's rare. It's rare. So you usually can push these guys onto their back and that's easier to do. So you probably do that more often. And you like smashing people. So you smash all these people. But the problem is then you never develop a bottom game. You never develop a guard, you never develop ability to get out from under a big gu and do it technically, you know, get that under hook, like, you know, work for a deep half, like figure a way to get back up to your feet. You, you're just always used to like overpowering people. And then when someone's bigger than you, you're fucked.

[B]

Way you're fucked. So were you always strong? Like.

[A]

Well, I was always strong. I mean, I didn't really start lifting weights Until I got into Jiu Jitsu.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I mean, I always lifted a little bit of weights, I always worked out a little bit, but I was more into kickboxing than anything.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But when I started doing Jiu jitsu, I was like, oh, being strong was like a big advantage. Yeah, it's a huge advantage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is interesting because I was watching this video where these guys were talking about this, these wrestlers, and they were saying that wrestling has always acknowledged that power is really important. But for some reason Jiu jitsu, they would like to pretend that it's not important. That interesting technique is everything.

[B]

Was it cultural from where it was like with the Gracies and would like.

[A]

I think technique is more important. Right. Because if a guy doesn't have technique and he has strength and you have technique, you can beat him.

[B]

But you can't discount really effing strong.

[A]

Right. But you also discount a guy who's really fucking strong with technique and they're not mutually exclusive.

[B]

No.

[A]

Like a lot of guys who are really fucking strong also know how to grapple. And that's a giant problem now, is.

[B]

There, like in the throws world we always talk about like technique, speed is everything.

[A]

Explain to people what you talk like.

[B]

Yes, I'm one of those nerdy guys that pick the sport that's like the least paying sport of all time. I was a hammer thrower. So it's like a shot put steel ball through 16 pound steel ball on a 1 meter, you know, 3 foot long wire. So what you see on the Olympics, they spin around really, really fast and yell and scream and always make like the highlight reels of guys that.

[A]

Where did that come from? Was that a weapon at one point in time? Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So they actually, in Scotland they, they would use. It was a hammer. They would literally have like for agrarian society and they have a cylindrical head on it so they could use it every side. And so that would, that became a way to train for battle because they weren't allowed, the Scottish weren't allowed to have weapons. Yeah. So they would start throwing stones back.

[A]

To the Braveheart days.

[B]

Yeah. During those days. So they weren't supposed to have weapons. So they're like, f this we're just going to take all the stuff we have and stay strong, stay ready. And then actually their stone was called the clacknard, which meant stone of strength.

[A]

What a great name.

[B]

Wonderful name.

[A]

That's a Viking name if I ever heard one.

[B]

Tell me how badass this is. So like each family, like the Rogan family, like you're the patriarch, right. You'd have your clack nart up on the mantle or whatever it is. So at your family outings, whatever outings, those may be all the men very much like in Braveheart, they would go and throw it. The guy who throws the clack nart, the family stone the furthest is kind of like the dude. Like, he's like, all right, all right, you now my son has surpassed me. He's shown he's a man now. Right here's the wildest part. This. This gives me chills. So they would. If they went off to battle, they would take their clack nart, their stone, and on the way out of town, they would all put it in a pile, and they're called out. This is called a cairn or a cairn. So they would put in a pile. So if they did not return to battle, they had placed their own monument to their town of their sacrifice.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

So could you imagine? So when you go past these old towns and there's a pile, you're like, a lot of guys didn't come home.

[A]

And those piles are still there.

[B]

When I was in Scotland, they did say a lot of them are still there. I was competing when I did Highland Games. Scottish Highland Games. And it's wild. So, like, you think about it, you're like, man, you're literally kind of placing your family's stone of like, I'm going off, and if I don't show up.

[A]

Like, dude, I was in Scotland last year and there was.

[B]

What part of Scotland are you?

[A]

God, I wish I could remember. I'm not exact up in the Highlands, like, all the rural stuff in her.

[B]

Aberdeen.

[A]

I went with some friends, and they took us to this place that my friend owns property out there, naturally. And when we went there, there was a stone circle that is way older than Stonehenge.

[B]

No way.

[A]

Yeah. And it's just sitting there.

[B]

So a lot of stuff in Scotland's just sitting there.

[A]

It's just sitting there in front of this dude's house, and you can go and stand on it. I was like, this is crazy. And it's got, like, a little monument on it, but no one's stopping you from, like, walking around on it. And they're not big stones or, like, small stones, but this stone. They're like. I'm like, who made this? I was asking. The guy that we were with is pretty knowledgeable. He's like, no one knows.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Just left laying around.

[B]

Yeah. So, like, Scotland. There you go.

[A]

No, that's not it. But it's kind of like that. It wasn't nearly as high. They were smaller standing stones, and it was. And there's a bunch of them, like, laying around. Like, there's a guide stone on the ground. Like, how old is that? Like, that's probably thousands of years old. But nobody knows. Like, they don't know who made the stone, put it there. It's just a guide stone. Like, so if you were on a trail through the Scottish highlands, you would find these rocks. We're on the right place. Lord. And this is fucking stone that's been there for 3,000 years or whatever. Like, they don't even know how old it is.

[B]

And it's just sitting so cool, though.

[A]

But it's a crazy thing. It was, like, across the street from this guy's house. So he's got, like, this normal house and there's a little street. And then across the street from his house is this stone circle that's, like, who knows how fucking old. Nope, it's not that either.

[B]

Yeah, they had, like, the other stones of strength there, the inverse stones that.

[A]

Are older than Stonehenge in Scotland. Because all three of these I pulled up. God damn.

[B]

We were just really high. Maybe you're in actually England.

[A]

Oh, I was totally sober. Look at that image right there. How weird is that one?

[B]

Cool.

[A]

The ring of Brodger. How do you say that?

[B]

They have some sweet names over there, too.

[A]

Broad Gur. The ring of Brodger. Like, what did they do in that ring? How many goats died in that ring?

[B]

A lot of fights.

[A]

How many fucking people got sacrificed in that ring? I mean, thousands and thousands of years ago.

[B]

So cool. The stones over there, like, they. A lot of people go over. A lot of strongmen. They'll do, like, the stone tour. So they'll lift all the. They'll lift the Denny stones and the inverse stone and the inverse stone. I lift that. That was in a old lady's garden, right?

[A]

There's like, a stone.

[B]

It's like a 200. Yeah, like a 265 pound, like, big egg stone. And, like, just laying around. It's literally in this lady's garden. It's called the Inverstone.

[A]

And people go there.

[B]

People go there and, ma'am, can I.

[A]

Go lift your rocks?

[B]

100%. What happens?

[A]

Really? Yeah.

[B]

We were over there competing, the US Team. We ran over there and, like, all the highland game guys were like, let's go check this out. We all lifted it. And she invited us in for tea. She's like, well, come and. Come and Sign the book. And you look in the book, it's like, Bill Kazmire was here. So and so was here. We're like, oh, my gosh. Like the greatest strongmen in the world had come as a pilgrimage to lift this stone. And then they signed the book. And you're like, so weird. This is awesome. And then across the street. Yeah, yeah. And then.

[A]

How do you say that word?

[B]

We call it the inverstone called stone. Yeah.

[A]

It seems like it's almost been, like, honed.

[B]

Well, that's.

[A]

Doesn't it seem like it was polished to that?

[B]

Yeah, there you go.

[A]

That one's outside. Oh, that one actually has numbers.

[B]

Yeah, that's the one I lifted.

[A]

Does it says 6,265 pounds is what it says.

[B]

Yep. And so we lifted it. And then actually. So what happened after, back in the 80s, when Kazmeier was coming on the scene, you know, Bill Kazmire, obviously world's strongest man, kind of started the stage. He allegedly picked it up. You know, it was the man thing. If you could pick up. He picked up and carried it across the street and bellied up to the bar and laid it onto the bar and had a beer.

[A]

I would be mad if that was my bar.

[B]

Right? Oh, he chipped the crap out of the bar. It did. That was there. I was like, yeah, that's where Bill chipped it. This is badass. It's not a historian. I like that stuff. So we traveled all around, lift all the stones. It was cool. But anyway, a thrower is a person who decides to do a sport that doesn't pay a lot. No, I'm just kidding. But it's a shot put, discus, hammer, javelin. It was all those original Olympic sports. They were all weapons. And so I.

[A]

That'd be a good sport if you're a trans woman.

[B]

Oh, you would.

[A]

Oh, you would dominate.

[B]

Oh, if I.

[A]

Regular chicks wouldn't have a chance.

[B]

Oh. I'm at 48 years old. I could still throw the living crap out of a woman's implement if I wanted to. It had been a great move, but, yeah, I was a part of the track and field. I got into it in college. Kind of a weird Forrest Gump like story. And it changed the course of my life.

[A]

Have you done lift, run, shoot yet with Cam?

[B]

I haven't done it with Cam, no. I've. We played around and done some stuff like that at my farm, you know, during.

[A]

You should do his. His podcast, the Lyft Run Shoot show.

[B]

That'd be great.

[A]

It makes you carry a rock up the mountain.

[B]

I went up Pisgah with him. I haven't carried the rock and. But I'm sure you've done the camrock. That's.

[A]

I haven't done Pisgah. I'm not doing that out of here.

[B]

That was rough. Yeah, that was rough. I started running. I'm not a big cardio guy.

[A]

I'm not interested in going anywhere where that guy's running.

[B]

Dude, he is. He is as advertised as a badass.

[A]

Oh, he's a complete psychopath.

[B]

Legit.

[A]

He's one of my best friends. He's a complete psychopath.

[B]

We did. We're. I. We all got running, and then he kind of left me, and then, like, he got to the top and then did his dance, and then he came back down and like, hey, man. And it was very remarkable. Like, it. He goes, all right, why do I do this all the time? He goes, if we crested this corner right now and you saw the biggest bull of your life at 70 yards, could you make the shot? And I'm like, bro, I'm looking at my ear hole right now. Like, I'm screwed. Because that's why I do this every day. I'm like, yeah, I'm tracking.

[A]

He's also addicted to exercise. He's addicted to cardio.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think not so much a state of mind that a lot of those distance runners get in that they get really, really addicted to. And there's a runner's high, like the runners.

[B]

You experience that?

[A]

Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Long cardio sessions. Yeah.

[B]

I never have. I've tried it. Then I just either get bored or mad at cardio. Then I go and lift weights and throw things.

[A]

You've got, like, that power, strength, throwing background, you know, it's like. Doesn't really benefit you to be really into cardio.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It actually probably would diminish some of.

[B]

Your strength, like, heavily. Yeah. Greg Glassman, back in 07, when I was throwing Highland Games, he was like, you got to do Cardio or do CrossFit. And I was like, why? And he was like, no, it'll help your throwing.

[A]

I go, oh, the CrossFit guy?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Doesn't look like it works out at all.

[B]

That's the one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm not taking advice from you, buddy.

[B]

Well, I was sitting there, I was like, I'm 265 pounds. He's like, you should do CrossFit. And I'm like, I'm trying to be the best thrower in the world. And that has Nothing to do with any of this other stuff.

[A]

Yeah. I have a golden rule when it comes to taking advice. I don't take advice from anybody. Looks like shit.

[B]

That's sound. That's sound advice.

[A]

If you look like shit. I'm not taking advice. I know he had, like some physical problems. Right. Something's wrong with him or something.

[B]

But the bottom line is unknown and unknowable was not my sport. My sport was extremely known and extremely knowable. I know the Olympic trials are on this day and I need to show up and go really far.

[A]

And also, if you want to be a power lifter or if you want to do some just completely power focused exercise.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

It does not benefit you to spend time getting in like extreme cardiovascular shape. Like, you do need to do what the kind of running that cam does. Yeah.

[B]

And it's not even not beneficial, it's detrimental.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, we would joke, like, why run when you could walk? Why walk when you could sit down? And why sit down when you could lay down like as throwers? That was what we would do. And we would lay down every chance and eat every chance you get. And we're like, I'm going to stand up and do something really hard and fast for three seconds and I'm going to go rest for a while.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Call me when I'm back up.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, there's different. Different things have different requirements. But if you want to be a mountain elk hunter, what he does is very beneficial. I just can't run my. I have a bad left knee that's been really bothering me the last few years. And I just twisted it again this September.

[B]

Yeah. You're saying your sciatica was a little tweaked.

[A]

That was another problem. That was from overuse of. No, it's just being stupid. That's overuse of archery. So I was. Yeah. Because, you know, I have two bows. I have a bow that's 84 pounds and a bow that's 90 pounds. So I'm pulling these 90 pound bows a hundred times a day.

[B]

Are you shooting many times a day?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Good for you.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Oh, you have to. For that moment when like a fucking giant bull walks in between the trees and you have a 70 yard shot. You have to 100% be confident that you can make that shot. And so I'm shooting at 84 yards over and over and over and over. And I'm obsessive. But the problem was I developed like tendinitis in my lower back. So it's overuse from the stabilizing, from, like, holding yourself. So it's the pulling. I'm sure that's it. But it's also holding it right there in that position. And it's all in my right lower back. But it's much, much better now. I started doing this thing called New Fit.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Talked about it the other day with Derek where they're doing electrical muscular stimulation while you go through exercises. It's really helpful.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. It's been three years.

[B]

It's like a microcurrent or more like a.

[A]

It juices you up. Like, it's all the.

[B]

All the muscles contract, like, stem kind of thing.

[A]

Yeah. But it's very strong. So this is. And you can crank up the intensity. So this is some of the shit. Like if you saw Mike. Try Mike Tyson when he was training for Jake Paul, he was doing that. Like, what I think it's really good for. I don't. I don't know if it's good for a lot of these things, but it's really good for rehabilitation.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

For rehabilitation. I think there's tremendous benefits to it. And I bet there's some benefits for athletes for working on specific things and doing it while you're getting juiced up. But, man, for me, it's been. It's helped me quite a bit pretty quickly, too.

[B]

Like three weeks on that specific spot or they firing something else?

[A]

No, that's firing a lot of different parts of your back. So it's like both sides of my back, my obliques, my core, and just going through a bunch of rotational exercises and a bunch of different things to strengthen lower back. And just, you know, you're getting a lot of blood flow through there and stretching it, and it's. It just was. I was getting pain and I was like, shut up, pussy. And I would just ignore the pain. And then it just got bad. It got bad to the point where my hips were getting kind of numb. And when I was hiking up hills, like in October, when I was hunting in October, it was bothering me a lot. I was like, okay, I've got to really do something about.

[B]

Yeah, because you could be, you know, talk yourself in or out of something really hard. But if it's something that's just going to be chronic, like, well, I'm screwing it chronic.

[A]

But it's a lot better now. Good. It's a lot better now, and it's only been three weeks. Oh, that's great. My knee is still fucked, but not totally. It's mostly soft tissue. Just. I twisted it I twisted it crossing, like, slippery ground in. In September. And I've had a lot of problems with it. I've had two knee surgeries. I had my ACL reconstructed. I had a meniscus piece removed. And then when I was skiing the last time I skied, last and final time I ever ski, this lady didn't know how to ski, and she, like, slid into the trail, and I had to try to not wipe out, not. Not hit her, and I wiped out. And I got what's called the insufficiency fracture. So it's a. The bone fractured at the top of my shin, my fibula, or my tibia, rather, right where the cartilage is. And so really? Yeah, that created quite a bit of pain. And then I twisted it again one time when I was about to get on stage. It's hard when to play on Stubbs. I was going to Stubbs, which is like this outside concert venue, and I was looking at my phone to turn my voice recorder on so I could, like, record. And as I was doing that, I twisted my knee on this concrete step. Just yanked the shit out of it to the point where my leg was shaking. Where I was on stage because I was in pain. It looked like I was super nervous, but it's really just pain.

[B]

Because I think at this point, you get super nervous on stage when you're talking.

[A]

No, once I'm up there, I'm not nervous at all.

[B]

Do you still get nervous beforehand?

[A]

I get excited, yes. I think anything you do that you really care about, you should get excited.

[B]

I used to call it my national leg. When I would go to national championships in the hammer all year, I'd be fine. And when I would wind the hammer on the first one, when I took the hammer back, my right leg would bounce, and I'm like, ah, there it is. It was one throw a year, and I was like, here we go, we're back. They just had adrenaline. Oh, it was adrenaline because where you're in your physically, you're peaking for it. You're like, this is the day I have to compete. You remember how it was, but you're like, this is the day. And everything else is kind of work. And then you're like, I'm cashing out today. I get to cash out today. Like, I get to like. And then it's like, oh, that's the best.

[A]

Yeah. Doing exciting things is really fun. And it's so important for you to grow as a human. Do something that scares the shit out of you. Do something that excites you do something that's difficult.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And it's almost. I don't know, sometimes it's good when it's a more dynamic where you don't know when it's going to happen. But. But looking forward to something is pretty badass too, because then you could start focusing, training, focusing efforts and then going through, like almost stages of guilt, the stages of excitement, and you're like, ok, I excited. No, I got this one back and forth.

[A]

Yeah, let's go.

[B]

It's live.

[A]

Yeah. That's what it is with everything. I mean, I think it's these processes of like, recognizing there's a goal, working towards it, solving problems, working hard, pushing yourself through discipline. That's how you grow. And it's like that. That's how everything grows. Right. This is how your mind grows. This is how your body grows. This is how your life grows. Like, you have to do stuff that's hard, and then you get better at doing stuff that's hard and that's how you get better.

[B]

Yeah. And then you level up and this next wilderness, you're like, all right, well.

[A]

What'S the next thing when that alarm clock goes off. It's so hard to know that you know all these things, but you're just the force of the bed, the gravity of that warm bed.

[B]

Oh, it's cold in the room.

[A]

Oh, especially like, shout out to people who live in, like Alaska. Oh, they have to get out of bed.

[B]

Dude. I'm sure you've done some, some hunts where, you know, you're in a tent or something.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And then you're like, I know, I really want to get out there, but, oh, my. This. You're like, my boots are frozen. And like, maybe that bowl will just kind of walk more this way.

[A]

First hunt I ever did was it was Steve Rinell in Montana.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I remember seeing that.

[A]

It was nine degrees. Nine degrees in the morning. We're just like, Jesus Christ. So cold.

[B]

That was the, the hunt that started it all for you, wasn't it?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Little forky kind of buck from whatever right there.

[A]

No. Okay. That's the buck.

[B]

Oh, no way.

[A]

Yeah. That's the first buck I ever shot. That's awesome. That's him.

[B]

Yeah, that. The. The buck that launched a thousand hunting careers.

[A]

Well, it was life changing experience. But you know things where, you know, you realize like, wow, where would we be without houses? And it was only, by the way, it was only, I think October. It was October of 2012. I'm pretty sure it was October and It was already 9 degrees in Montana. Like, what was it like in February for these poor fucks? What's January like in the morning and you're in a tent fuck?

[B]

Well, it's like Josh Smith up there at MKC has talked about, like, yeah, everyone loves Yellowstone. Y'all. About to find out in February. He's like, everyone wants to move here. He goes, stick around. It's gonna get live here in about January or February.

[A]

How many people got super confused by that show and bought a house there? And they're like, what is this? Why is the ground solid Exactly?

[B]

Oh, I love it. This is fantastic.

[A]

Especially someone who's never lived in the real north before. You don't know what happens when your ground freezes. The ground is a piece of rock.

[B]

Like, so in your fall on.

[A]

It freezes. You're like, everything freezes.

[B]

Yeah, that's a. That's a whole different animal.

[A]

It's a different way to live. That's for sure. But, you know, I was talking with this gentleman yesterday, Rick Strassman, scientist. But we were, we were talking about the time where he was living in Alaska and he was living in Alaska and he lived in Southern California, and then he moved to Fairbanks where it's 39 degrees below zero. And he's like, what the hell? And then it's dark for like 10 hours.

[B]

Everyone's depressed.

[A]

Vitamin D. Not dark for 10 hours. Rather it's. It's only light for four hours. It was light for four hours, so it's dark for 20 hours. Yeah, fuck that.

[B]

Have you. You've been to Alaska a lot. I would think you like it.

[A]

I like the people up there. They're hardy. They're a different kind of human.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I was in a battle tested.

[B]

They are. And everyone wears extra tough boots.

[A]

Yeah. You don't want to get caught outside with some fucking bullshit flops.

[B]

Yeah. And if your boots are too clean, you get made fun of openly. They're like, hey, nice new extra toughs.

[A]

You know you're friends with Tyler from Archer country. Tyler is always walking around everywhere with flip flops, bro.

[B]

That guy hunted yesterday in shorts.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

He's a different killed earring shorts.

[A]

If you're in Alaska and you have flip flops, you're gonna die. You're gonna. Your feet are gonna freeze off. You're gonna have no feet.

[B]

Yeah, like, you need boots. I was out at a bar out there. We were in Homer, Alaska, and we were playing pool and jacking around.

[A]

Where's Homer?

[B]

Homer Is they have this big spit that comes out. I don't know. It's in Alaska somewhere.

[A]

How far up there?

[B]

Far.

[A]

It's all far.

[B]

Because big man, I don't know.

[A]

When you see how big it is and you, like, lay it over the country.

[B]

Jamie, where's Homer?

[A]

How much we stole from Russians.

[B]

Of course you'd have that. Yes, there it is. So we were.

[A]

Yeah, God damn, Alaska's big.

[B]

It's so cool, isn't it? So we're on that, like, big spit. So we were on that bay, which is crazy. And. Yeah. So we're down there, and we were at a bar, goofing around, and I remember I walked into the bathroom and I was like. I just kind of noticed. I was like, wow, there's no mirror on the wall. Whatever. I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. And one of the guys was like, yeah, there's no mirrors in the bathrooms in Alaska because it doesn't matter what you look like. You better just be capable or you're going to die. And I was like, what a cool place. Like, he was just like, no one cares what you look like. Here is everyone's hair is all froed out and they're dirty and oily and greasy. He's like, yeah, that's the flex here. If you're can make it.

[A]

That's interesting.

[B]

Yeah. I was like, oh, what a cool. But, yeah, we were sitting in that bay, looking across the bay with a pair of spotters and looking at tracks and seeing animals across the bay, like 19 miles away. It was crazy on that white snow. It was wild. I never thought you could see that far of a spotting scope.

[A]

No kidding. How much magnification is 90? Oh, wow.

[B]

Yeah, some monsters. But still, it was like, yeah, big swirl that you could see. You know, all of Elon stuff up in space with probably.

[A]

Imagine those poor fools that I had to hunt with traditional bows. No binos, no spotting scopes.

[B]

Dude, did anything.

[A]

No wind checker? No. No app finder, no apps. I have apps. I have everything.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I have a rangefinder that syncs up with my app.

[B]

Of course you do.

[A]

But I don't. I haven't even set it up yet.

[B]

But do you nerd out on all this stuff? Like, I do?

[A]

I do. See, here's the problem. I have a loopholed rangefinder. I really like loopholes. Full draw.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

The reason why I like it is because it'll show you the arc of your arrow. Yes. This is how nerdy it is, folks. So my arrows go 294ft per second.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

How heavy these are? 475. 475 grains. And you calculate all this stuff, you put all this stuff into the rangefinder and the rangefinder knows exactly how heavy your arrow is, exactly what the peak of it's going to be as it comes off your bow, how fast it's going, and it gives you a line. So that line. So if I'm shooting through a gap in some trees and I actually did this a couple years ago, I actually did it when I had a Garmin rangefinder. Right. So the Garmin is a range finding site, which is pretty badass.

[B]

I've always wanted to play with it.

[A]

Kept up though, and apparently they're getting better. But electronics, they. They fucked me a couple times and it would fuck me on my range. Like I would be at full draw, my range. And I know it's 84 yards and I press the button and I'm not getting a range and I press the button again. So you would press the button and it would give you a red dot.

[B]

Right.

[A]

When it works, it's the greatest thing of all time because it's like a pistol. Like, you see that red dot, that clear lens, and then that.it's the best sight picture of all time. Of all time, yeah. Everything else, like the post or the side post, they get a little in the way. Just a touch. Not. Not bad. I can deal with it, you know. But that red dot was amazing. So I shot this. I'll show you the bull afterwards. I shot this big bull and he was coming through this gap and I wasn't sure if the arrow was going to make it there. So I pulled out the second range finder and I clicked on that and I got the height of the arrow. I knew I could make it. And then I used the range finding sight.

[B]

So a man that knows his tools.

[A]

The opposite of these guys with their traditional bow point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like I'm, you know, I' sure. So the new loophole though, the problem is it doesn't have this height thing in it, but the new one when you range an animal with Onx hunt. So you arrange the animal and it mark puts a pin down where that animal is.

[B]

Yep. I actually had the. I was one of the test subjects for that. They sent me. Yeah. Probably two years ago. I was hunting at Deseret with it, giving them feedback. We found a mule deer the day before and I ranged him, marked him and we went back the next day and I shot him at 14 yards.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

It was awesome.

[A]

That's crazy because you can go back to the actual spot where he was.

[B]

Yep. Yeah. It threw it off to my phone and is like the. I can't remember what it's called. It's the range, but it has like.

[A]

The LF something 500.

[B]

500? Yeah, something like that.

[A]

So you can find it, Jamie. Yeah, it's pretty dope.

[B]

It's super cool.

[A]

I love Leupold. I just wish their glass was as good as Swarovski's.

[B]

Yeah, everybody.

[A]

I say that about every like Vortex makes awesome binos for the money. You can't beat them, especially their HDX series. Those really high end ones, those are great until you put it through the swirl. Pick up those NL pures and you're like, yeah.

[B]

You're like, yeah.

[A]

It's so. It's almost like I wish I never looked through them.

[B]

Oh, it's.

[A]

That's. Yeah, that's the RX 5000.

[B]

Yeah. That thing is badass.

[A]

It's pretty dope. So it does. It syncs up with your onyx hunt. So you could show you how it works there. So what's really good about that is not just, you know, you know where you hit the, you know where the animal is. So if you have to go around somewhere and get back to them, you'll, you'll be able to get right to, you know, if you're trying to get away from the wind.

[B]

Well, the spot and stock is so nice because we were hunting mule deer in Arizona and you could same thing. You're, you're circling around and your depth of perception. You know, I've been 200 yards off.

[A]

I feel like this is more designed though for the rifle hunter. And this is like even, they're even showing guys like going 2000 yards with this thing. I feel like for the bow hunter they just need to add. Maybe it'll just make it too big. But add that height of arrow technology. I don't know why they wouldn't put that in there. Yeah, because I can't use it. I need that. That. That is so huge for elk hunting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For me it's like gaps or everything. I want to be able to be sneaky and just make my way around a tree. Just give me this, give me this much. And if it's. And if I know that the arrow is never going to hit the top or the bottom, I'm golden and I have full confidence evidence. Because otherwise it's a mind. Because I'm sure you've had arrows hit branches.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

It sucks so hard. Yeah. Whack. Yeah.

[B]

You're learning in Cleveland somewhere.

[A]

A few years back in Utah. That one I had pulled up had.

[B]

That was made for Ballistics 4, I think, this morning.

[A]

These are all for archery? Yes. The foot. Well, the TBRs to the right.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

That. That is. That one is a similar one that was like. I don't think that's as sophisticated, though. And I don't think that has the app. I think the RX1 is the only one. The app, but I have that one. The full draw 5. I don't go anywhere without that. It's the shit that that is to me. I have. I've had a bunch of different ones that were really cool. Like, Aaron Schneider turned me on to this Nikon a while back. That was image stabilizing. That was a game changer. That was. That's a big deal because you could really, like, get the range finder on the animal. Yeah. Image stabilizing rangefinder.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah. I use image stabilizing binoculars. Have you used those SIG ones?

[A]

I've used cams. I tried that. Pretty dope.

[B]

I'm running 16s.

[A]

Yeah. All right. Because you could just hold them.

[B]

I have. I've run Suarez since 1999, and I started leaving mine at home because I like the Sig so much. And they did the new hd, so it has a better glass now. Still Nice. Clear as Suarez. I mean, that's just. But because you could stabilize. I could run 16s and I'll run 16s in the woods because I could just peer through everything and like, boom.

[A]

I ran twelves in the woods this year, which is a little too much when you. When you're not stabilized. I usually run tens, but I like.

[B]

Sometimes by 40 twos.

[A]

Yeah, sometimes when you're looking at something that's really far off, you're like, I don't know if that's a good bull. Is that worth chasing? The 12 make all the difference in the world. But what I do is I grab my baseball hat. I learned this trick from Remy Warren.

[B]

Oh, that's a good idea.

[A]

So what you do is you.

[B]

Remy's a killing son.

[A]

He's a killing son of a month. You clip that sucker down tight so your hat's on tight, and then I'll do this, and I'll hold my binos right here. Or take my bow and put it here and then stack it on top of the bow. Press the bow up against your chest so it's not going to Go anywhere and then stack it on top of the cam of the bow. A lot of guys do that.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But Remy taught me this one, and I think this one's super legit.

[B]

Just hold on super fast, too.

[A]

And you can get your. You could tuck your elbows in like this, and you could really keep it stable. If I couldn't do that, I wouldn't use twelves, but I don't think I'm gonna use twelves anymore anyway.

[B]

Really?

[A]

No. I think tens are the way to go and maybe even eights because you get a bigger field of view.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because a lot of times I'm seeing stuff through trees and I'm sneaking around like I like to. You know, I'm a big spot and stock guy. Sure. I've tried a bunch of different hunting. I've tried ground blind. I. My tree stand. Hunted with Dudley.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

That. You can go yourself with that, sitting in those trees all day. That. I am way too ADHD for that.

[B]

You'll find out if you're crazy.

[A]

Oh, I'm crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm definitely crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't like it. I don't like being up there in a tree like that.

[B]

Here's my question, though. I was just in Missouri. I went to our farm. I was there six or seven days, and we sit, you know, 30 minutes before to 30 minutes all day.

[A]

Yeah. You have to.

[B]

So it's. But I would think with as many people as popping on you and all this, like, it was nice because for me, I'm like. I'm quiet. I could just be. I enjoy. I enjoy that part where I could just unravel and think, like, think through problems. But yes, you go crazy, and then you burn out your phone because you're like. And I'm gonna search for the dumbest things possible.

[A]

I'm gonna buy socks.

[B]

100 city.

[A]

Also, you. You don't realize, like, if it's 30 degrees out, like, 30 degrees, no big deal. You can walk around 30 degrees. But as soon as you're sitting there, dude. And 30 degrees, you get so cold, you're not moving, so you're not generating any heat at all.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So then you're in this stupid body warmer suit that zips up.

[B]

Yeah. You're like, in a big snuggie.

[A]

It's a big old oven, and my hands are in here. But the problem with that is if a deer comes and you got a make all that noise, you gotta get out of it. All this movement. Grab your bow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you really shouldn't do that. So you try to go with a puffy, but you're still freezing. So then I started doing Bruce Lee exercises while I'm up there. And one thing I realized I. I was so cold, I had a hard time pulling my bow back once.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was going to shoot this deer and I was up in that stand for like four or five hours. Yeah. And Iowa. And I go to pull that bow back, I'm like, jesus.

[B]

Well, because you shoot a 90 pound bow.

[A]

Yeah. But I was so cold.

[B]

Part of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, no, it's. Yeah, I'll sit there and just do like. Like, you know, I could.

[A]

95 pound bow for a while.

[B]

I remember when he made you that one.

[A]

I couldn't draw it on my knees. I had to stand up. You know how I found that out?

[B]

Because you couldn't.

[A]

Because I was on my knees right behind a bush and an elk walked behind like, God damn it. And I was in a weird spot too where I could only lean on my left leg too, like so it was, you know, it was like I was on my knee, but I was even on my left knee. It was like a up.

[B]

You don't have a good.

[A]

Yeah, I was like, my right knee was up like this. My left knee was down there. I was like, this is. That bow was crazy. I remember 540 grain arrows. 305ft per second, bro. When it hits, it was just like, wow. It was like. I remember we were shooting at the Deseret and we were all shooting at 100 yards. Just me and a couple of these guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they shot first and then I shot. And the guys go, what the fuck are you shooting?

[B]

Because the bow was still rolling it that.

[A]

He goes, that bow is so flat. What is that? And I'm like, this is a 95 pound bow. It was the dumbest thing ever.

[B]

I remember you sent me. He was like, this thing's preposterous.

[A]

It was so dumb. It also had a really short brace height, so it was super sketchy. So if you moved your hand, it was so unforgiving that if you move your hand even slightly, you were off target by six inches.

[B]

Oh, geez.

[A]

Yeah, just really twitch.

[B]

Driving a little Tokyo drifter around all.

[A]

It was so dangerous. Not dangerous really, but like you just wouldn't. Yeah, I didn't trust it. You know, I killed a couple animals with it and I stopped trusting.

[B]

Yeah, you get to put it on the wall and go like.

[A]

Well, then I went to an 80 pound bow from Hoyt. I was like, oh, My God, this is so much better. It was like 15, 20 more accurate. I was like, that thing is just too.

[B]

Yeah, I just got that RX9 like last week.

[A]

Oh, that's great.

[B]

Yeah, It's. I'm shooting 76, but I'm 30 and a half inches, so I got pretty good stroke on it.

[A]

Oh, yeah, man. Yeah. I need some extra horsepower at 28 and a quarter.

[B]

I need like, I'm shooting 520 grain at about 282. So it's moving out.

[A]

That's great. That's that like, guys like Randy olmer, he likes 265 to 280. Yeah, he thinks that like that's, that's the range where the arrows are like the most accurate. There's this thing about having too much witch.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You know, there's too much and it's.

[B]

Almost like too much flex on the arrows.

[A]

There's a lot of flex in the arrows and it's probably more subject to wind drift when they're flexing like that.

[B]

You know, it's like when we used to throw the javelin, there was different rated javelins. And you could be too strong for the jab. And so if you don't pull through the tip perfectly, just like aerospine.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so you have a 50, 50 meter jab, 60 meter jab, 70 meter. And when you start getting strong, you could bend a 50 meter jab like a banana. It's kind of fun, actually. It comes out like Lamar from like, what was it? Revenge of the Nerds?

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

But yeah, that makes sense that it.

[A]

Would be just like arrows.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Folks at home say if you have a 50 pound bow, you could probably get away with a 320 green arrow. 330, 350. So the higher the number, the more flexible the spine of the arrow is and the lighter the arrow will be.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I shoot a 250. So it's like, I like a nice stiff kinetic energy. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Especially how much weight you have in the front creates that more of a flex.

[A]

Exactly. But it's. To me, it's all about like, I've heard arguments before. Like people say, oh, you don't need.

[B]

That much bow power.

[A]

You don't shut your dirty little skinny mouth. Because the only reason why you would say that is because you can't pull that back. That's the only reason. And if you think that that £70 to you is the same as £70 to me and you don't work out, that's just dumb. That doesn't make sense.

[B]

Yeah. It's like saying, well, you don't need a 500 pound deadlift to look. Yeah, but it's nice.

[A]

Yeah, but if you can't squat 500 pounds and you have to squat 500 pounds, you can't do it. I can. So shut the up.

[B]

It's nice to have in your pocket.

[A]

Shut your dirty little skinny hole.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because all that is, is you're, you're just saying there's versus you and being physically weak. And that's stupid. That's stupid. Do you need to be able to pull back 80 pounds to kill an elk? No. If you can't pull back £80 and you're really accurate with £60 and you have a cut on contact broadhead, you can be successful. But I'm going through that whole animal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm getting a pass through on a giant animal, and you're probably not gonna.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think that's it's more important to be able to have the most ultimately lethal setup possible. I learned this from Cam. He's my mentor. He's a guy who taught me how to bow hunt. And, you know, his whole thing is he shoots a 90 pound bow as well. It's like the most amount of power and you want to make a big fucking hole.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you want that animal to die like that.

[B]

Well, with anything. Why would more horsepower, if you could handle it, not be advantageous?

[A]

It's stupid. That's why race cars have limits on the amount of power you could have, because it's more advantage. You know, if Formula One drivers figured out a way to get, get a 4,000 horsepower engine and have it handle, they would win.

[B]

They would win. They would win. Or if you could punch 30% harder than everyone else in UFC.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do it.

[A]

Yeah. Literally, you'll make a lot of money. Became the heavyweight champion of the world. Hits harder than anybody.

[B]

Yeah. It's interesting. My buddy, Lauren Landow, strength coach, and I was talking to him last week, and he did a, actually a study on ground force power into. Into punch. And they did. So they tested it on like a force plate jump and force plate, and then they did a Proteus machine. Have you ever seen one of those? They kind of like, it's like you kind of throw it and push it kind of the same thing. So they tested the power of the punch, then tested ground force, and then they did squats, but they also did like a trap bar deadlift. And then the training was a jammer arm. Like a jammer arm Punch. So they had the sequence of force and he had a double digit increase of, of strength through the or power through the ground and it equated to a 12% increase in punching power. So almost, almost percent, 4%. So you look at that and say, well, if you're, if you're stronger, you squat more or deadlift more. Now, as long as it doesn't take away from the sport. But that has a very, very real effect on punching power.

[A]

Yeah, it does. The way it takes away from the sport is if you're sore from lifting weights, you're not going to train as effectively. That's just a fact.

[B]

Like, or it takes too much time away from your technique or.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Injury or whatever.

[A]

That's where steroids come in. And that's why Gordon trained 365 days a year. He's open about it. Like, he's open about his use. Yeah, because they don't test for steroids in jiu jitsu. So, you know, he's a wizard. So he's like a pragmatist.

[B]

I, I figured that they would.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

UFC though. They do, right?

[A]

The ufc. They do, yeah. But you ever seen Gordon? You ever seen my shirt off? Oh, yeah, it's that mother passing. No tests. Give me a phone. Photos of Gordon.

[B]

God, he's, he's squared away.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, when you have that and then you have a genius level iq and then on top of that.

[B]

This.

[A]

Big eating grit on his face, and then you have a guy who trains 365 days a year who also works on technique constantly. That's how you have the greatest of all time.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But by the way, all those guys like Galval, the guy was on the bottom there. He's on the juice too. It's a level playing field. They're all juiced up.

[B]

Right, right. It was kind of like the lifters and the throwers of the 80s. Everyone had a 600 pound bench because that's what you do. And guess what? You got a test now.

[A]

Well, this is a great argument to this idea of power being necessary. Like with jiu jitsu and grappling, you know, like if you have technique like Gordon's and you're built like him. Yeah. Giant advantage, Giant advantage to be super strong always in all of life, there's zero advantage of being weak.

[B]

No, there's never a time you're like, you know what, if I could just get my squat down a bit, that would really pan out for me.

[A]

One thing though, that is really important, this, this actually really pays off if you can train with a guy who's small. Like, if you can learn Jiu Jitsu with a guy who's small, you'll learn the best Jiu Jitsu.

[B]

Why is that?

[A]

Because they have to use technique. They have to use leverage. Like, you're a big fucking strong guy. If you learn Jiu Jitsu, you. You could use that strength. You could squish people's necks and throw them on the ground and grab their arms and stuff like that.

[B]

That.

[A]

But a small guy can never do that. So if you can learn Jiu Jitsu from like a Barrett Yoshida or a Hoyler Gracie or Eddie Bravo or there's a few of those. Gabe. Gabe Tuttle, who teaches over here at 10th Planet, small guy Jiu Jitsu is the best Jiu Jitsu because it has to be razor sharp. Because they don't have the physical strength, like overpowering arm and get you into a certain position just from raw horsepower. They have to let, like, sneak it in there with leverage and they have to do everything perfectly. So those guys, if you learn Jiu Jitsu from them, you're going to learn like the most technical Jiu Jitsu.

[B]

Is that like, obviously a reason why you should learn younger when you're small and weak?

[A]

Well, it's always good to learn young because first of all, it becomes a natural part of your movement. Like, it's like as your body matures, your body's. I think it's more important with striking than anything thing. It's very rare that someone learns how to strike while they're already physically mature and can ever reach the level of like a Floyd Mayweather.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because that guy, as he was a child, his, his body, his reflexes developed striking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he's just got this massive encyclopedia of information that's available to him. He knows exactly when he sees you do this, he knows that straight left is coming, and he knows all he has to do is do this. And he knows the counter is going to be there when you go to look for the right hand afterwards. Yeah, he's just got it all programmed it slap. It's all just like right in there. For you to build that up after you're 28, like you're gonna be. You're never gonna be at his level. You're not you. You kind of have to. Unless you're some physical freak, which do. They do exist. Yeah.

[B]

But what I've understood too is the potential for building speed, which is, let's be honest, speed is a big part of power, which is punching.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's the sequence of force. How do you create force through the ground? Explosion of force, not implosion into your arm or your foot or whatever it is that ends at 22, that the potential to develop. The potential for Speed ends at 22. Really? Yeah. That's why all the weightlifters and everyone, gymnasts, everyone has to start young.

[A]

So when you're firing patterns 27, and you try, you'll never.

[B]

You won't reach the potential you could have genetically, because you just don't have this. The sequence of the speed. Right. It's the. I know how to do this at speed that goes whack, whack, whack through here. And I could crack that whip.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Your body just has. It's done too many other things at lower speed.

[A]

And so, you know where I really noticed that with kicking. And when I teach people kicking, there's certain things that they have a really hard time doing, doing fluidly. You know, one of the force, the big ones, is like, anything that requires spinning. Like, if you look at a good MMA fighter that doesn't have, like, a Taekwondo background, and you teach them how to throw a wheel kick, they'll never be able to throw a wheel kick. Like. Like a real Taekwondo black belt. There's certain guys that, like, as they're young, they're developing these spinning techniques, and they just got it wired in their whole nervous system, just. And it's so smooth and fluid that the power is so extraordinary. And, you know, I've taught people that were, like, elite MMA fighters, and I try to teach them how to throw things, like a spinning back kick, for instance. And it takes a long time for them, even, like, Jon Jones is one that he landed, like, on Stipe, That. That guy's a freak. Like, that. That guy is like, what we're talking about. Like, you can. There's some guys, you can teach them things when they're in their 30s, and they could develop it, like, as someone who's been doing it their whole life. But that's. That's a rare exception. Another rare exception, I was thinking, is Alex Pereira. Alex didn't really start striking until he was, like, 21 years old. He didn't even start training.

[B]

But my question would be, what other things did he do that. That exaggerate? Like. Like, that developed that speed and power sequence because, like, you know what he did?

[A]

He worked in a tire shop.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. So he's, like, hoisting tires and hammering tires down and setting wheels.

[B]

Right. So you're learning. You're learning to do the most. Because if you're doing it for a job, you're gonna do the most efficient method possible to move an object. Right. You're also to lift that tire up.

[A]

There, develop rotational strength.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You're throwing hammers down. I mean, he's doing this eight hours a day, all day long. So like, think about how many tires he's hammered, right?

[B]

Yeah, that's not a training.

[A]

Francis Ngannou, when he was a child, worked in a sand mine line. So he's digging sand all the time. He just. His body's just as he's developing. I've also massive physical specimen.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So he's like six, six or six, five, whatever. He is 265 natural, built like a Greek God, like a statue. And his whole body's developing as he's a young man digging sand. And the anger you have like, I can't believe have to dig this.

[B]

Could you imagine? It's like the wheel of pain, like Conan.

[A]

It is like Conan. He really is like a guy from a movie in a sand. And then becomes the heavyweight champion of the world. Was homeless.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

His, his. You ever heard his story?

[B]

Oh, yeah. So buddy of mine, Bo Sandoval, used to run the strength conditioning direct. He was a strength conditioning director at ufc. And so he told me about it years and years. He's like, we got this guy. And I was like, really? He goes, no, this is going to be a dude. And I like, really? And he told me his whole story about Cameroon and like living in France and the whole deal. And I became like, I never even looked eyes on the guy. I was like, this guy, he's my guy. I wouldn't like. I want to like him.

[A]

Oh, he.

[B]

And then he came on the scene, like, whoosh.

[A]

His life story told on the podcast about making his trek. Like he just decided he has to leave Cameroon. And I was like, what are you gonna do? You can't go anywhere. And he went through the desert.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All the way to Morocco. And then gets in a raft and does it seven different times. He gets arrested, gets taken into custody. They bring him into the middle of the desert, drop him off, he goes right to Morocco, walks through hitches ride. Took him a year and a half.

[B]

If he makes. I don't care how much money that guy makes. It's not enough for just being able to do that. Like that is so.

[A]

So how about he has one boxing fight. He knocks down the heavyweight champion of the world. And one of the greatest heavyweight boxers of all time. He hits him with a left hook and drops him and almost won. Like, I thought he won the decision. It was over. I was like, they're going to give it to him. I think he won the decision. He was battering him in the eighth round. He dropped him the second. I'm like, I think he won. And a lot of people thought he won.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he came that close, that fucking close.

[B]

And so is that, like, obviously genetically super gifted, right? But then also, like, we're talking about, like, shoveling and doing all this work. When you do that work for that long, you learn how to become efficient because you don't want to spend extra time and effort doing stuff. So you just learn how to kind of move stuff.

[A]

There's a little bit of that. And I think, to be. To be really charitable, I think Tyson Fury probably didn't think that he had a chance. I think Tyson Fury probably didn't train as hard as he would have trained if he thought that Francis was a real threat, right? I think he probably thought, I'm gonna box this guy's fucking face off. How could this MMA fighter. And then he gets hit with one of them hammers.

[B]

Yeah. Thud.

[A]

He gets left hooked in the side of his head. He's like, what. What the did this guy just hit me with? And he's on his ass as the heavyweight champion of the world. Fighting a guy with zero professional fights. That was his first ever pro fight, his second ever pro round, and he drops one of the greatest heavyweights in the history of the game. You. I think my. Here's my Mount Rushmore of heavyweight boxers. Mike Tyson's number one. Mike Tyson from 1986 to, like, 1990. There was nothing. Or 88. Whatever it was, it was a few years before the wheels came off because he was just going crazy and partying, fighting with syphilis. And he was at. He was a maniac. But that guy, the guy who knocked out, like, Michael Spinks, the guy who knocked out Larry Holmes, the guy who won the title from Trevor Burbick, I think that guy's the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time. He was a juggernaut, man. The guy who knocked out Marvis Frazier, that's the scariest version of Tyson ever. The Marvis Frazier version.

[B]

But you said you were, like, probably late high school. Like, yes, I was like a little kid. And I remember, like, walking out my skateboard, and they're like, did you see the Larry Holmes fight last night? I was like, oh, no. But I heard it was like 19 seconds or whatever it was.

[A]

It was crazy.

[B]

All pumped.

[A]

No, the Larry fight went a few.

[B]

Rounds differently than I did a kid.

[A]

Yeah, well, I was, Yeah, I was doing a little boxing myself and I was a giant boxing fan. He was a freak. He was a very unusual thing because every other heavyweight was kind of slow and even if they could hit hard, they were lumbering. He was bobbing and weaving and moving. And he was a small, wasn't even 6ft tall. So he's built like a brick shithouse. He's got a 20 inch neck, he's 220 pounds, moves like a guy who's 150 and he's throwing lightning bolts at your central nervous system. Just blam. He's hitting you to the body and your fucking legs are shutting off. He was a monster. I just think you can't maintain that forever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think I always, when I look at fighters, I try to look at them like when they were, when they were white hot, just burning hot at the highest level that they could achieve. What was that like? Like what was that? I feel like as great as Muhammad Ali was, man, I just don't see him surviving.

[B]

I just.

[A]

No, I just, I see like Henry Cooper dropped Ali when he was back, when he was cast. Cassius Clay with a left hook and they cheated to get him out of the round. Custom motto. Cut his gloves so they had to take his glove off and replace the gloves. They gave him all this recovery time. You ever seen that Henry Cooper fight? Henry Cooper was a bad man. He was his British boxer, this guy from England who had a nasty left hook and he caught Cassius Clay just bap. Perfect one in his like leg and he's like slumps down the rope. He was Dunnsville, but it was at the end of the round. And then Angelo Dundee, I mean that guy had been around the block.

[B]

Yeah, cut these fucking gloves.

[A]

See if you can find that Jamie, because it's a, it's a crate. It's a crazy fork in the road in history, right? Because if they don't cheat, likely he gets stopped. Likely. Henry Cooper, who landed the perfect left hook, hits him with a couple more right, that's it. He's done. He looks done already. Like, watch this. Henry Cooper had a nasty left foot. Brooks, look how he's down there. Yeah, that's not regular down. That's fucked up down. That's like real trouble. But it's the very end of the round. Look at this, bro. But look how he goes down. That is That's Dunn's Ville. So if that's a minute earlier, if he gets hit with that. Yeah.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

The whole thing changes, right? The whole thing changes. He's not undefeated when he fights Sunny Liston. He's not this unstoppable force.

[B]

Isn't that crazy? How crazy? Little.

[A]

And that can happen. And there are fighters that I have seen in the UFC that I go, this guy could be the next. Fill in the blank. This guy could be the next great welterweight champion, the next great lightweight champion. And then they have one fight, and in one fight, something happens. They get hit with a flying knee or they get head kicked, or something happens, and then their whole path changes, and you go like, wow, if that guy wasn't overmatched, if he didn't fight that guy. So which. This is the difference between boxing and the ufc. The UFC is like, when you're ready, come to us, and you're going to fight the best.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Boxing is like, we're going to build you. We're going to take you, and you're going to fight a few guys that are like. Like, real slick, but they don't have power. And then you're gonna fight a big guy with a lot of power, but he doesn't have any endurance. Yeah. And they're like. They're like, he's ready for this now. You know, if you have a really good trainer, like Tyson Fury's trainer, Sugar Hill, he's gonna, like. He's analyzing your movements, he's breaking down things. He's figuring out what to change, what not to change, when to back you off at training. Like, you're a little too hot right now. Let's, like, oh, interesting. Let's not peak too soon, because we got two weeks before the fight.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I want you to take a day off. Like, take a day off. I'm ready to eat nails. No, no, no, no, no. We gotta. We gotta. They know exactly. And then they're like, he's ready for this level of competition. So they'll give you a guy that'll offer you some struggles, some tests. Maybe he's got a big, big punch. And, you know, you might lose the fight, but you're most likely gonna win. And this is how you find out if a guy's gonna make. Make it slowly, move them. So there's a lot of boxers, you know, by the time they're fighting for the title, they're 14, 0, 16, 0, 18.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Charles Oliveira. I mean, what is Charles Oliveira's record? Let's. Let's See Charles Oliveira's record? So Charles Oliveira, when he became the lightweight champion, he had a ton of losses in the ufc. He got stopped by Paul Felder. He got stopped by cub Swanson, KO'd him. He got. I think. I'm pretty sure Jim Miller knee barred him. So what is his record?

[B]

Jim's a freak.

[A]

Look at that, 35 and 10. Okay. And so out of those 10, a few of them have been recently. Scroll back up to the top, please. So the Islam Makachev, he loses a title, and then Armand Sarukian, he loses a split decision. I thought he won that fight, by the way, but it was close. So those are the two out of those 10. So that means as a champion, he had eight fucking losses. Eight losses, and some of them brutal knockouts. Because you're in there with the lions, with all the lions. And so the UFC is like, who's the baddest lion? Let's figure it out, Right? Like, you want to be in the ufc, you win a few fights, we're going to throw you in. Or if it's, you know, last. Short notice, short notice fight.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

And the thing you find out, too, is that the level at the ufc, as great as some of these guys look in these other organizations, the level at the ufc, that's the peak, those are the greatest fighters on the planet. There's no arguing about it. And we found out about that this past weekend because Alessandra Pantoja, who might be the best pound for pound fighter alive, he's the flyweight champion. He fought this dude, Kai Asakura from Japan, who's a assassin, but Pantoja just ate him alive. Just ate him alive. And he got caught with a couple good shots, too. A couple good knees to the body. And, you know, Kaya Sakura is a really good fighter, but the level was just different. Like, Pantoja just. He strangled him, but it's just the way he did it. I mean, he was him up on the feet. He was him up everywhere. He was just pushing him in this, like, insane pace. You watch those little guys fight, like, thinking, they fight like pit bulls, man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, just like wild scrambles where they're moving so fast you're trying to call the fight. And it's like me and Daniel were talking about it during the commentary. Like, we have to recalibrate our brains.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you will go from a heavyweight fight to a flyweight fight. Like, whoa.

[B]

It's like listening to a podcast when you turn it to 1.5.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I actually had to start listening to your podcast at regular speed because I was. I thought you talked really fast. Just like, oh, Joe, no one talks that fast because I listen to it super fast.

[A]

Somebody sent me a clip of someone, some political person talking about one of the guests on the show. And I was like, what is wrong with the clip? And then I had to realize, like, oh, they got it on speeded up.

[B]

Yeah. Do you listen to stuff, speed it up?

[A]

Never.

[B]

A buddy of mine taught me that. He listens to books. He got up to 4.4x and so.

[A]

He was absorbing it the same way.

[B]

I think if you're kind of like a Rain man, which I'm not.

[A]

I'm not.

[B]

But I could go 15 pretty easy, and I could. I could just get through it faster.

[A]

Yeah, I see how that could help. But for me, I mean, I'm not doing reading to books on tape or listening to books on tape for anything other than my own enjoyment and education. So for me, I'm enjoying it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I like to think about the things, and I'll have more time to think about what this person's saying if they're not going at one and a half half speed. Because if they're going at one and a half speed and going one concept to the next, and I'm like, wait a minute, I don't understand what. You sure? Then I have to back up. Yeah, I like to think about stuff. So it's like. Especially if I'm listening to something esoteric or really weird.

[B]

Yeah, it makes sense.

[A]

Which is a lot of the stuff that I listen. If I'm not listening to fiction, I'm probably listening to a book on physics or something.

[B]

I listen to Jack Carr stuff at regular speed because I really just enjoy the books.

[A]

Oh, that guy. What is his name?

[B]

Who's the guy who does his by?

[A]

Guy's really good.

[B]

Yeah, I can't remember. Has a lot of good dialects and everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Jack text me this morning.

[A]

He said, hi, he's the man.

[B]

He's awesome.

[A]

I love that. D. See, we are cross tomahawks on the wall.

[B]

Oh, for sure. I love it. Yeah. He's like, hey, D. I said hi.

[A]

I love that dude. Yeah, he's salt of the earth.

[B]

Yeah, we just got him some CMBs.

[A]

Ray Porter.

[B]

Yeah, Ray Porter. I knew it was a ray across tomahawks on there.

[A]

He's the man. And the thing about his books on tape, though, is you're locked into Ray Porter forever. Some new person starts, are you screwed? Like, who is this guy. This is bullshit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can't. You can't have this guy doing it.

[B]

Guys, amazing.

[A]

I'm used to all the voices.

[B]

I like. Raf is.

[A]

You know who else is really good? Who's the guy who does the Gray man series? There's a guy who does. I've. You ever listened to the Gray Matters? I'm so addicted. Mark Graney writes them. They're so ultra violent. They're so crazy. They're so crazy. It's about a CIA hitman. Oh, it was like, a singleton guy they send all around. Dude, it's so. Like, they made a movie about, like.

[B]

One the weird ones will give you. Like, you think about it all night.

[A]

Kind of like, oh, yeah.

[B]

When I would start watching the Sopranos, like, my view on the world would change.

[A]

Jay Snyder, that guy's really good. He does really good girl voices, too, which is weird. But those fucking books, man, they are so ultra violent. They're so crazy. They're so crazy like you. Sometimes I listen to them and I have to shut them off before I go to bed. Like, if I listen to them. Like, I like to take the sauna before I go to bed. And so if I'm listening to, like, you know, a book on cosmology. That's great. It's interesting. Yeah. Think about space.

[B]

Very cool.

[A]

But if I'm listening to some Gray man before I go to bed, I'm.

[B]

Like, yeah, we don't need that. You know, we don't need that in the house.

[A]

Yeah. People getting their fucking eyeballs. Like, a giant sword shoved through their eyeballs getting blown up, grenades in their mouth. Like, hey, hey.

[B]

Yeah, hey, hey.

[A]

Hey.

[B]

Do you. Do you, like, scroll around? I know you're not supposed to look at your phone before you go to bed. I. I always just. I. I, like, look up ballistics. My wife's like, what are you doing? And I was like, she's. It's like, that's good.

[A]

That's not social media. That's good.

[B]

Well, I do it because I actually could think about stuff, and it doesn't matter. I have to look at something that doesn't matter. Matter. Like, if I look at, like, a good.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Don't check an email.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You're screwed. Right? Like, and I'll tell my wife. She's like, hey, I got a question for. The lights are off. Don't ask questions right now. Like, I'll be all night. I'll be thinking of this problem I have to solve.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like, I'll just sit there. I'm like, hey, I wonder what the ballistic coefficient of a.350 Remington Magnum is.

[A]

By the way, anybody with a beard like yours, I would assume they know the ballistic coefficient of a 3 magnum. It's like they see a dude in a beard like that, he's kind of jacked. I'm like, that guy knows how to shoot some things. Yeah, 100%.

[B]

I was just like, oh, yeah.

[A]

So you would probably loads his own bullets.

[B]

Yeah, about a 9 inch drop at 300. Interesting. Okay, I'll keep that in mind.

[A]

Yeah. Probably load your own rounds.

[B]

Yeah, well, you know.

[A]

Yeah, I bet you do. I get you giving them presses.

[B]

Pops used to be really, really into that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Thankfully I know the guys at Noster, so they just sent me ammo, which is nice.

[A]

I've made the mistake of looking at social media before I go to bed and I get mad or I get upset or I get sad or I find out some weird shit that's going on in the world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when I was younger, I'd read things that people would say about me and I'd be like, oh my God, like, what was this? That's not true. And you get all upset. And then I realized, like, wait, this is just some person. Like, I wouldn't talk to them in real life. Like, what do I get? Why is their opinion more valid? Because it's written down. So then I stopped reading all comments about me and oh my God, it changed everything. Changed everything.

[B]

You do the post and ghost, right?

[A]

Yes. It's the way to go. I have friends and they'll come to me. Like, they'll come to the comedy club or something and they'll be like, genuinely emotionally distraught because people are attacking them online. I go, but they're not here. Like right here. Your friends are here and you're all freaked out because I know I gotta stop reading that stuff. I go, you gotta stop reading that stuff. First of all, it's not true. You're really funny. You're a great guy. So it's all bullshit and they don't know you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So they're just deciding to do this. And they know that it with you because you talk openly about it. And so now they're going to accentuate it. They're going to. Yeah, they're going to keep jabbing at you. They got a rock. There's a window.

[B]

Yeah, they're the cheap. They're in the cheap seats. We're with them in there.

[A]

You got to stop doing that, man. And a few guys have listened to me. And a few guys haven't. And the guys have listened to me. They all say the same thing. Like, oh, my God, I feel so much better. I'm like, yeah, social media is not the problem. The problem is either engaging in the anger and the hate or having reading people's anger and hate towards you and having it fuck your head up. Like, hey, do you think it's something.

[B]

That'S, like, systemic, that is literally spreading and growing? Like, the people that put that type of trash out all the time, and then they think there's some sort of value to that, and then other people see it.

[A]

Right. They do get engagement. Right. And if you're a person that has, like a YouTube show where all you do is shit on people, you have bad karma for sure. For sure. You're suffering.

[B]

Yeah. But you gotta deal with that the rest of your life. Like dealing that poison.

[A]

You can make a living doing that. Like, there are guys who make a living doing that. They're all fucked up. I'm not saying there's value in it, but I do think you make something out, you can create a career doing that. That's part of the problem, is that it's effective.

[B]

Right. Like the trolls.

[A]

Yeah, like trolls. And it does get engagement. But then, you know, what kind of engagement are you getting? Look, I have people that hate me online, but not the ones who know me.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's what's kind of important.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The people that know me, either in real life or through the podcast, know I'm a nice person.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I work really hard at it. Sure. I'm actually. I try hard to be a nice person. It's not like it's a conscious effort. I'm good at it. I like doing it. I like nice people. I like being nice person. Makes me feel good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I don't engage. I don't fire back at people. I don't. I don't. You know, when people get mad at me, Even celebrities have attacked me online, like.

[B]

Yeah. How does that feel? Like probably being in that world a bit more and then now having people turn on you probably feels strange.

[A]

Eh? They're just. They're just revealing who they are. They're just weak. They're just weak people. They're not the type of person that. If you did that in front of me when you were around me, we could have a conversation about why I feel like you're incorrect. And the. This assumption that you have of me is totally wrong.

[B]

And.

[A]

And also, if you're not talking to someone in person and you're saying something about that person. Like, you don't. You could just kind of like form some bullshit narrative. Of course the person's right there. They'll go, that's not true. So you're saying something, and if it was true, then you'd be justified in your anger. But what you're saying is not true. And you're taking things completely out of context and you don't know what you're talking about. And you're doing this because your life sucks and it's the only time you do it.

[B]

I've always said.

[A]

Do you think Michael Jordan is posting on YouTube? Is he making comments? No. When he was in. If YouTube was around when Michael Jordan was the king, would he be doing that? No, he doesn't have time because he's.

[B]

Being aware he's actually winning and doing.

[A]

Yeah. 100% guarantee. Michael Jordan reads the comments. And if he did read the comments, he'd be up all night. Anger, you know, like, you saw that. That Neil. Neil Brennan had a bit about Michael Jordan's documentary on his last Netflix special is pretty funny. It's like, unless you want to be the greatest basketball player of all time, he goes, you don't hold grudges. Unless you want to have $150 million worth of passive income every year because it's a fucking silhouette of you dunking. Unless.

[B]

Unless it's a good and less.

[A]

But again, those are freaks, right? These are the outliers. These are the people. Like. Like, as a rule, as a human being, that's not the way to go.

[B]

This insatiable desire to, like, just hammer that nail until it's just so far down in the woods, you're just like, I don't know what you're doing anymore. But, yeah, that's how you become the.

[A]

Greatest of all time.

[B]

You leave no question.

[A]

It's just the difference between that in sport versus that in fighting, though, is in fighting, you could. I don't think you can maintain it.

[B]

No.

[A]

Like, a guy like Jordan, how long was he in his prime? It was a decade, right? Yeah. For a decade, he was dominating basketball.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You can't really do that in fighting. You think Jon Jones, the only one has been able.

[B]

Think. It just takes so much aggression, so.

[A]

Much damage, so much damage to your body. The damage to your body is huge because there's so much damage that happens just in training. John tore his pec off of his fucking shoulder in training.

[B]

Yeah. And that wasn't getting hit. That was wrestling. That was.

[A]

And then there's the impacts that you get and then there's the, you know, the back stuff. You know, you get thrown weird. You land on your back weird, you're throwing someone. A knee hits you weird. You know, your ribs break all the time. Hands break all the time. Like common gym injuries. Knee blows out noses. Everybody's got a broken nose. I don't know anybody who does any kind of combat sports that hasn't broken their nose. So there's like, you, after a while, you can't breathe out of your nose. Your nose is destroyed. Your fucking hand hurts when you try to, like, open your car door.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you have to punch people in the head with it. Your. Your knee hurts going downstairs. Kamaru Usman. You want to hear something crazy? When he walks, he has to walk backwards downstairs because his knees are so bad.

[B]

Oh, because he can't get the knee over the toe.

[A]

His knee hurts so bad. And he's. He was a welterweight champion the world with those knees. And he was talking about it openly. He was like, oh, you know, you can know, you can know my knees are bad. I'm still gonna fuck you up. And he did. He fucked everybody up forever.

[B]

It's coming.

[A]

Leon Edwards. But his knees are so bad that he would have to walk on the grass where everybody was, like, walking on the sidewalk. He'd have to go over to walk on the grass because just take a little bit of relief. Just something. Yeah, bone on bone, man. Yeah, bone on bone.

[B]

Well, it's a way champion, like the operators, like, you know, guys are jumping out of. Of.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Like all of them are jacked up.

[A]

All of them.

[B]

Everyone in the strength world, everyone's low back, everyone's shoulder, everyone's knee, everyone in.

[A]

Jiu jitsu, everyone's got a back problem. Everyone's got a neck problem.

[B]

Part of it.

[A]

Everyone blows a knee out.

[B]

It's part of it. Yeah.

[A]

And if, you know, Eddie always used to say, look, you're gonna have to get surgery eventually. You're gonna have to get surgery. Just get the surgery, heal up, come back. You're not gonna stop.

[B]

Yeah. Are we rebuilding this engine and keep erasing, or is this like doing as least as you can to not get surgery?

[A]

My second surgery, I went to this doctor and when I had a bucket handle meniscus tear so it would lock. You ever have one of those where it locks out? It was brutal. And he was like, you've got to stop doing martial arts. I go, shut the up. I go, you don't know what you're talking about, I go fix this. He was like, when you're older? I'm like, yeah, when I'm older. Well, right now I'm 30 years old. Fix my knee, I gotta go strangle people. What are you talking about? Yeah, what the are you talking about? Stop doing this. I'm not to stop doing this same thing.

[B]

I was 22 when I had that and I had an Olympic trial in two years. I was too much fun. I was like, yeah, no, like, no f. And I, before I went under, I was like, I've squatted this much and I do this. When I come out of it, I expect to be back there. So fix it like that. Don't fix it like I'm an old guy taking her easy. And like, I'm young.

[A]

I got, I got. Do they fix it differently depending on, like, who you are? I don't know.

[B]

I just felt better about saying.

[A]

I tell you what they do get, they got a lot better.

[B]

I would assume they would actually fix you. Maybe they wouldn't fix normal.

[A]

Well, I tell everybody, if you have an opportunity to get a ACL reconstruction, please @ least try the cadaver graft. I know a lot of people want to do that patella tendon graft because you don't have the risk of rejection. I don't know anybody who's had a rejection from the cadaver. I do know people who have pushed it too hard, too early and then reblon it because you know how it works. Do you know what happens?

[B]

I'm not familiar.

[A]

It's really kind of interesting. You get this. So my right knee, when I blew my ACL out, they take a cadaver. Like I have a dead dude's Achilles tendon, which is much thicker. I don't know his name. Who was a guy like Francis Agado. Some studious fucking animal. Just giant Viking dude. So it's, it's thicker than the. It's 150% stronger than a real ACL.

[B]

Ah.

[A]

And so they screw that in place. And then it's not like you have this dead guy's thing in there forever. What happens is your body reproliferates. It acts as a scaffolding. So it can feel like it's secure, but it's really vulnerable. So you have to be super careful up until like that six month mark when it should be reproliferated.

[B]

And so does the, does the foreign tissue eventually just kind of get reabsorbed, which is kind of weird.

[A]

Exactly. You eat that dead guy's Achilles with Your knee.

[B]

My knee is just munching these dead dudes.

[A]

But, man, I've had no problems with this. Awesome. This right knee is amazing. The left knee, I had a patella tendon graft. And because I had that one done in 93 or 94 and that one back then, that's the only way they did it. But it was really good. But it took a long time to heal. Like, it was a long time before I could kneel down on the ground. Like, if I had to kneel down and put my knees on the ground, flex. Because they take a piece of bone out of your shin, and they take a piece of bone out of your kneecap, and then they take a slice out of your patella tendon. They pull that off, and they open you up like a fish and they fucking drill it into your shin bone and drill it into your fibula.

[B]

Love that.

[A]

Your tibia and your femur, rather.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like, wrap it over. They get it in there. It's like a year before it feels like you could do anything with it. It took a while before I felt like I really trusted it. But I do have to say I was not as diligent with my rehabilitation back then as I was when I got this one done with this one. I was. I rehabbed it all myself. I didn't. I went to, like, one or two of these things. I'm like, they're just showing me things I already know how to do. I'm like, I know what to do. I'm just gonna do this and do it all day. So I was doing bodyweight squats, like, all day long, and I got it to blood.

[B]

Blood.

[A]

Six months later, I was training again, full blast.

[B]

Were you doing any, like, the BPCs or any of the peptides?

[A]

There was nothing available back then.

[B]

Oh, well, back then.

[A]

So this was 2003 that I got this one done.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

And this was the patella tending. This was the cadaver, rather.

[B]

How do you think the recovery would have worked for us, like, with all these dings and injuries? Because I've had a couple. I'm sure you probably have, too, a couple friends that got surgery. Actually. A doctor hit them side injection and even IV with BPC157 during the reattachment of a pec or a bicep.

[A]

Super legit. It's super legit. Along with TB500, apparently, that combination of those two together. Most effective. Yeah, super effective. And, you know, there's a lot of people that resist that for some strange Reason why? I don't know. I think. I think there's a bit of ego involved in not knowing something when you're an expert. I find that with. There's a real problem with, unfortunately, some orthopedic surgeons. Aaron Rodgers was explaining this to me, that his doctors were telling him not to do stem cells after he got his Achilles fixed. He's like, what are you talking about? Like, shut the fuck up. And so of course he did stem cells. And of course he went to ways to. Well. And of course he was back three months earlier than they thought he could ever be. And, you know, there was like, some real thought at the end of that season that he was probably gonna be able to play.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where everybody's like, this is nuts. Like, nobody recovers from this that fast. But he was very smart and he didn't push it too far.

[B]

Yep. And he waited, actually followed Brigham and all the stuff.

[A]

But yes, stem cells work. There's a reason why you have to go down to Tijuana to get the good ones because it's. They fucking work.

[B]

Like, anything that works is like, you're not allowed to do it anymore.

[A]

Biden really fucking really helped 91, that cocksucker. He really did.

[B]

I was talking to a strength conditioning professional the other day at the administrative level, and we were just talking about different things going. I said, yes. I said, there's people, in my opinion, in your world that don't know about BPC157. He didn't know about BP's.

[A]

And I'm just like, crazy.

[B]

And I'm like, okay, I was taken eight years ago.

[A]

You know what it is, though? It's like they don't continue to learn.

[B]

That was my point.

[A]

And then they're in practice all day. They're constantly working on people. People are coming in the door. This guy blew his ankle out. This guy's got a blown shoulder. Yeah, yeah, but.

[B]

And I said, the weird part is you have a strength conditioning professional. And in some ways there's more information cutting edge on a podcast from guys that are interested in training.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Than there are from like the. You know, And I'm just like, hey, guys, just open the scope a little bit. Like, well, there's enough of these guys listen.

[A]

That are super smart and also jacked. Like these Andrew Huberman guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And super smart guys that are in the bodybuilding world. Super smart guys like Derek from More Plates, More Dates, he's the best example because he's just a fucking encyclopedia of data and studies and efficacy and how you combine things together. And he actually runs a clinic, so he really knows what he's doing.

[B]

You get the boots on the ground, you see it in real time.

[A]

Time. Yeah.

[B]

This. My doc is Eric Serrano. I don't know if you know Doc Serano. He's up in. In Columbus, but, you know, everyone has gone to him over the last 30 years, but he's one of those dudes that has, like, a base.

[A]

Columbus, Ohio.

[B]

Columbus, Ohio.

[A]

Oh, that's where Louis was.

[B]

Exactly. He was Louie's doctor. So. Yeah, he was. He was Lou's. He was. You know, you go through all professional baseball, it's like, okay, got it tracking.

[A]

He's one of the rare guys that we went to him to do a podcast.

[B]

How was that?

[A]

Oh, it was awesome.

[B]

Did you go to Bob Evans with him?

[A]

No, we just. We. We hung out at his gym. Yeah, you know, and he. He just was. Introduced me to a bunch of freaks and show me all the stuff that he invented and why Invented it.

[B]

So cool.

[A]

Louie Simmons, he was the man. He was so funny. He was so funny. Such a character. He was telling me about how he got his shoulder blown, got a shoulder replaced. And then immediately when he got back to the gym, they made a max out and bench. And I was like, what are you talking about? You need to recover. It's like. They were like, don't be a pussy. You have to max out.

[B]

I was there in 2002, and so Louie and his wife Doris, and they would always. You always meet the Bob Evans in the morning, and he would eat and, like, do the whole deal. And he was telling me a story about how he had a. He got. He got pissed off and he could. Something to his cell phone. He threw it out the window while he was driving. And then. So he didn't have a cell phone for a couple weeks. And then he got to the gym, and he missed a lift and he punched his own tooth out. Punched himself so hard he knocked his own tooth out. And then took a wire brush that you, like, clean the chalk out of a barbell and smashed himself on the head. And he was just pouring. His wife was like, yeah, Lou was pouring blood and he knocked a tooth out. And I'm just thinking Westside was awesome. Holy crap. So I got talking to him, and.

[A]

He was like, no biceps.

[B]

Yeah, right. Because he blew him out.

[A]

I just never got it fixed.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of those guys, yeah, it's wild. But he was like, yeah, those cats would. They'd fight. And he goes, we would Literally, like, there's some tuned up dudes in there. And he said we would just literally kick them out the door. If they were fighting on the floor, we would kick them out of the way. So they were out of the way of the monolith. So we could keep squatting. Like every 30 seconds you're up or 90 seconds, whatever. It's like, I don't care if you're fighting, literally hitting each other with stuff, move the next guy up. And like, this place is wild.

[A]

They created some animals.

[B]

Here's a wild story. So we were there and this, this drunk chick came in. She was like. Because this was the old west side, it was like in this little shopping center with all the windows were all blacked out and everything. It was pretty dope. And this drunk chick walked and she's like, hi, y'all working out here? And she was tuned, man. She was like all sloppy, like legit street person, right? And I'm like, oh, this is going to go bad. Like, I'm just. I'm just reading the room, right? Like there's. It was not a lot of estrogen in that room, right? So I'm like, oh, man, this is going to be bad. Ls like, hey, hey, come here, come here, come here. So he puts a weight vest on her and then puts a second weight vest, a 25, 20. It's a 50 pound weight vest. And takes her outside, wraps a belt around her waist with a sled and had her walking, doing sled, pulls back and forth with a weight. 50 pounds of weight vest on her shoulders.

[A]

Drunk.

[B]

Drunk as shit. I'm just like, I'm just like, watch him. Like, what? She comes back in, he's like, all right, come over here. He puts her on the monolith, two red bands. Maybe just the bar, wasn't a lot of weight on that. And had her doing speed box squats, eight sets of two for speed, and was teaching her how to box squat. She finally stumbles out and just leaves. And like, later on, I'm like, lou, did you know that girl? He goes, no. I'm like, she was just some random street person and you had her squatting. He goes, shit. Half the people in this room were that person a year ago. I'm like, oh. He goes, she could be world champion. You never know.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And I was just like, that.

[A]

What a crazy mentality that stuck with.

[B]

Me for so long. He's like, most of these people are broken and they have some addictive thing and something. And he goes, if they could Channel it into something that might be the next world champion.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And I don't know if you ever saw her again or if I was just there that one day and it stuck with me for, shoot, 22 years. And I just thought about that. I'm like, he put his money where his mouth was. He was a coach, and he wanted to see what could someone do, you.

[A]

Know, that's so interesting because one of the guys who trained with Louie was Matt the Immortal Brown. Matthew Mortal Brown. I know he did some training with him. And I've always said that there's something about guys that used to be addicts that have, like, died and Matt died. And it's been a few guys that I know like, that came back from. They were the scariest people because they had crossed over. And then they realized there's a good addiction. The good addiction is to training.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Just be completely addicted to training. And so those are some of the fucking scariest dudes.

[B]

It was wild. I mean, I know I knew a lot of those guys from that world and a lot of them are addicted to different stuff. And unfortunately they get into training and then if they get out of it, it kind of. That addiction might pass, might come back.

[A]

That happens with fighters when they retire. And then also they're generally dealing with some issues, mentally impacts, you know. And so a lot of those guys start drinking. I started doing coke.

[B]

I always loved how Louie just saw it differently. And my dad was the same way. Like, he used to always say, look for something not of what it is, but what it could be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that would. That meant human potential. That meant designs, that meant like, application of stuff. And it's just like, yeah, that person's whatever. But if you push and you tweak and you push and you tweak, there might be something in there that's like super beautiful and awesome. But you never know. If you just said, that's a drunk chick that walked in the gym.

[A]

Well, it's crazy with him because he's actually done it a bunch of times and it worked.

[B]

Right. Weird.

[A]

So this attitude he's developed over time, just accept the fact that this person might come in 16 Coors Lights deep, dude, just.

[B]

Just tuned, you know, But. And I know buddy of mine, he. He trained at Westside and he said. I mean, half the time he said, there's. He's like, I've seen guys bench £700, like on acid, like, just freaked out of their mind. This is like wild stuff. And I'm like, holy cow. Like, that Whole world's wild. Yeah. Like, you had an old. I mean, the whole world, like, is so extreme, right? The fighting world, the lifting, the throwing, like dudes who do some pretty wild stuff.

[A]

Yeah, well. And whenever you get like these male oriented alpha characters that all get together and they're all butting heads and trying to figure out who's the baddest motherfucker around them, they also develop like a culture of, like, acceptance of certain aspects of life that come with, like, the injuries and pain and suffering and. And, you know, like, wrestlers, they like, brag on suffering the most. They want to suffer more than anybody. They, like. That's the badge of honor is. What time did you get up? 4:30. I was on my 14th mile at 4:30. You know, like.

[B]

Yeah, just drag you into deep water. Let's make it worse.

[A]

That's the part of the culture of wrestling is embracing the grind. That's the whole thing. It's like being the guy who can push, being that Cam Haynes motherfucker that does those 340 mile runs is because.

[B]

I think I've read before, is this accurate that the highest winning percentage in the UFC were all from the wrestling background, Is that accurate?

[A]

I'd probably say that's probably accurate. I think if you had a c. If you had to say, like, what's the back? I've always said that's the foundation of martial arts, because the wrestler can decide where the fight takes place. A wrestler, generally, mentally, they're going to be tougher because they went through the hardest thing when they were a child. The hardest thing as a child is wrestling. You're starving yourself when you're growing, you know, you're dehydrating yourself before matches, you're training and competing dehydrated, you're in a hot room, you know, clashing with other alpha males, and you're throwing each other around. It's just the hardest thing, getting staph.

[B]

Infections every once in a while.

[A]

But that skill is so important. The skill to be able to manipulate bodies and take them down. And if you could teach a wrestler jiu jitsu. Oh, my God. They're so much better at it because they're just so accustomed. It's just they just have to learn a new series of movements to go with this skill set that they already. They're great at controlling bodies.

[B]

Yeah. And just the proximity, like, people aren't good with being all up in people. And they're like, yeah, I live here, they live there.

[A]

And then the other thing is, if you could Teach a wrestler how to strike. They have such an advantage because you can't take them down and you're worried about them taking you down. So that opens you up to certain shots. It happens all the time where guys are worried about a takedown and they get blasted because they're, they're thinking, this guy could take me down at any moment. And then you get hit. Happens all. It's like another element that they put in that you have to, you have to deal with that they don't have to deal with. They're not worried about you taking them down. You're not even going to try. So they don't. They can be completely relaxed with their takedown defense. So then. Yes. Horrible. Being there with an elite wrestler is horrible.

[B]

I've even seen like elite wrestlers even in business and stuff like that. You could always. It always feels like they're trying to shoot in on you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They're looking for the weakness. Trying to shoot like, ah, this is just kind of in you, huh?

[A]

Well, they also know that they can, you know, you're walking around knowing that you could pick up any guy you want, dump him on his head.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And most likely they have no say in it. Like there's nothing they can do.

[B]

You don't get a vote.

[A]

Yeah, man. If you're like, if, if you're around a judo black belt and you're wearing a winter coat, you might as well have a hammer like right above your head, because I got guy's just going to use that coat and slam you into the concrete. You're basically helpless.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you don't know judo and you tangle up with like a real judo black belt, you're going to fly through the air and you're going to land on the ground with all of his weight and your weight on top of you. And even if you don't bang your head, your, your whole body's going to be out of air. You're not going to. You don't know how to land. No, you're going to land.

[B]

Especially when a guy's controlling this.

[A]

A shoulder right into you as he lands. Boom. You're fucked. Yeah. So that guy's gonna look at every person like meat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I, I never realized how effective a GI choke was until hoist key choked me. That was my first ever. I was like, yeah, I'll try jiu jitsu. And he did like a clinic. He's like, come on up for this thing. And my buddy is on me trying to do the thing. And then I Thought always put me in like the. Remember the old thing with like the paper cutters?

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Pretty sure that was what he has for a forearm. Like, way different.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My big buddy. That's my size. Hoist is way different than that.

[A]

It's leverage.

[B]

Holy cow.

[A]

I was. It's tying that shoe.

[B]

It was like scissors. It was just like, this is amazing. Like, it's so cool to see perfection, right?

[A]

Yeah. Well, that's the other thing about coats and jackets or even a hoodie. You could choke someone so easy with a hood. Hoodie.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Just get your thumbs in deep. Yeah, you could choke the out of somebody if you grab somebody with a hoodie and just drew them in. Especially like. Like I said, a leather coat.

[B]

Like a leather coat or duck. Yeah. So what are you gonna wear? What are you gonna wear or not? Oh, yeah. Canadian tuxedo. You got top and bottom denim.

[A]

Jay Leno. You're in trouble. That jean shirt, that thing's durable. You know why durable, right? You want some shit that tears easy. Like, you want a shirt that already has cuts in it.

[B]

You're preloaded.

[A]

You should, like, preload the back of your shirt, make some cuts in it just in case someone grabs you. Yeah, because someone can just grab your T shirt. There's actually a Gracie self defense thing that was on that I was looking at the other day. It was a really smart move where this woman was showing that you can grab ahold of someone's T shirt. If you're a woman and you're getting attacked by a man just grabbing a hold their T shirt and then getting your legs around their neck, no way. You're jamming your carotid artery, their carotid arteries with your thumb while you're holding a T shirt and squeeze with your legs. He could put a guy out, especially a guy that doesn't know what's happening and doesn't know how to protect himself.

[B]

I try. I don't know how to do that.

[A]

That's not it. But it was. She was on her back. It was on YouTube.

[B]

I tried one time. I was goofing around with my buddy. We call him the cyborg work. He's an absolute just monster of a human. And he and I were goofing around and I was on my back and like. And so I kind of like got him the little like a leg scissors on his head and I grabbed his arm. I'm like, I'm gonna pull his arm off. Like, I'm a big strong deadlifter. I'm like, I got him. I finally got him. He was 296 2.290allapp looked like Gordon, but like bigger and stronger. And he literally just. I thought he was going out and he kind of went, what? And woke up up. And he picked me up while I was hanging and then just slammed me down on the ground like, man, screw this.

[A]

Yeah, you can't do that.

[B]

People could do that to people. Like no. No one could stand up with a person hanging off them and slam them back.

[A]

You gotta hook his leg. You gotta un.

[B]

I didn't know that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just got clobbered.

[A]

You want to see the worst, worst version of that ever? Rampage Jackson versus Ricardo Orona. Did you ever see that in Pride? It's the worst case scenario of holding on to like a triangle while a guy picks you up.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And Rampage in his prime was a fucking machine. He was so powerful. So he takes this dude who's 200 plus pounds, hoists him over his head and slams him down a pillow. So look at this. So he's caught in the triangle. Watch how Rampage does this.

[B]

Ah, yeah, bro.

[A]

That was one of the worst KOs in the history of the sport. I mean, that dude could. Could have definitely could have died. He probably got the worst trauma. Yeah, the worst brain trauma.

[B]

Knee himself in the face too.

[A]

He. I think Rampage collided heads with him as well. So it's probably a bunch.

[B]

Yeah, like all kinds, I think. Right.

[A]

There is no squash his guts and yeah, his shoulder. But Rampage's head went into his. This. This is a crazy slam, man. Look at that.

[B]

Mine was not nearly as devastating, but it was enough to make maybe not want to do that again.

[A]

That was the worst. And this guy was never the same again. Ricardo Arona was never the same again. That is such a crazy that all could have been avoided. Like that's not what you do when. When you have a triangle. If you see a guy posturing up, you immediately go under. If he's got you in the air, you let go of the triangle. The thing that's holding him in there was him. He's holding himself in there.

[B]

Yes, he was the pit.

[A]

He wanted to. Because sometimes you can keep it, right? Sometimes you can keep a triangle and you get slammed and it just makes the triangle tighter. But you gotta know when you're way up in the air, you gotta let go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You gotta fully let go and then try to sprawl. Something has to happen. You have to disrupt this motion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This thing that's happening, turning yourself into an underhook like, as soon as you feel like he starts to stand up, you hook the leg. Leg. And worst case scenario, you transition to a leg bar, you let go of the triangle, you. You get control of that leg and use that leg either to try to submit him or sweep him. But you can never hold on to a triangle if the guy's standing up. It's just that concrete.

[B]

You're done.

[A]

You're dead.

[B]

You're done.

[A]

Your head is pulverized.

[B]

Yeah. It was bad enough on turf, but I won't do that again.

[A]

And that was like, you know, there's a little bit of springiness the ground because it's in a ring still, and there's probably a certain amount of padding on the surface.

[B]

How hard are those rings? And I've walked around in them as they.

[A]

There's a little bit, like, the UFC has a small amount of foam.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like a padding. And it's very important, really, because, you know, guys, heads bounce off and they get head kicked, they fall down, their heads bounce off to get hit with a big right hand or something. You bounce your head. So you can't have a real hard floor.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's not soft enough where you want, you know. Jon Jones power slamming you?

[B]

No, not really. Any day. No days, actually. That's crazy.

[A]

Yeah, it's. I mean, to be one of those people that make a living doing that, that is a wild way to go.

[B]

Yeah. What happened where that decided like, that that was the direction they were going to go. You're like, you know what? I'm going to get the crap beat out of me and dole out a lot of pain and see how this shakes out. Or do you just kind of, like, wake up one day and you're in that world, you're like, I'm pretty good.

[A]

Well, you're probably a wild person to begin with, and you're probably excited by dangerous, scary things, and you're probably pretty good at it, which is why you're fighting professionally.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, so you're probably trained in the gym, and you realize you're better than most people. Maybe a few amateur fights and a few people up and go, you know, I think I'm the man.

[B]

Start believing.

[A]

Yeah. And some of them are right. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Jon Jones. Every now and then. Every now and then, a guy is correct. Like, that's the way he should have went. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Everybody up.

[B]

Yeah, Everybody belly. It's okay. You were talking about first. So, Tyson.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's my heavyweight. That's my heavyweight all timer, John Jones for you. He's the guy that's like, I feel like Tyson in his prime. You have to have him on the mount, rush more. You want to have Jack Dempsey, you want to have Joe Frazier, you want. I mean, it's like a lot of guys who are really good, it's hard to say, like Muhammad Ali, Joe Lewis, Rocky Marciano. There's a lot of like. For me, the one that you can't remove is Tyson.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So there's a bunch of other ones. Lennox Lewis in his prime was amazing. Larry Holmes doesn't get the credit he deserves in his prime. There's a lot of guys who are really good heavyweight champions, but you have to have Tyson. Everything else is negotiable. Tyson has to be there in my, in my mind. Yeah, you know, different people disagree.

[B]

Do you watch other sports besides fighting sports or combat sports?

[A]

I watch a little football. Yeah, I've been watching football lately. I enjoy it. It's fun.

[B]

Pro or college?

[A]

I watch high school.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

I watch college and I watch pro. I went to an NFL game, first time this year.

[B]

Kind of cool.

[A]

It was fun. Yeah. So the jets play the Cowboys down in Dallas. That was wild. Wild. It's wild when you see the scale of it, you know, the scale of it, the size.

[B]

You've been many college games before?

[A]

A few. A few.

[B]

Oh, you were at ut, right? Yeah.

[A]

That was fun. I got to shoot the cannon at you.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

That was fun.

[B]

Isn't it crazy? Like, have you been keeping up with like the Nil and all the, the transfer portals and how that's changed the landscape?

[A]

I have not. What is that?

[B]

Nil? Is it name, image and likeness?

[A]

Oh, that. Right, the money thing.

[B]

Yeah, the money thing is crazy.

[A]

Well, they should have been paying those kids a long ass time ago. They should retroactively pay all those kids.

[B]

That'll be interesting.

[A]

They should. They should. They were making money off of them. It's crazy how much money they make.

[B]

The amount of money that's happening now. It's interesting because, like, it actually from a couple of my friends that are in that world, it creates a different conversation with the new kids because let's say in high school, they're, you know, they're bringing in these recruits and everything like that, and everyone is kissing their butt. Hey, man. Like, hey, we really want you to be here. We want you to be a.

[A]

Whatever, pay me.

[B]

And now it's turning into pay me. Right? And. But then the other side of it.

[A]

I want a Corvette.

[B]

Oh, that's. Dude, I have friends that tell me that there are, there are athletes who, when they're coming to a recruiting trip, say, if there's not a quarter million dollar signing bonus as just a part of the deal, I'm not getting on the plane for the recruiting trip. Wow, an 18 or 17 year old kid saying that, that's balls.

[A]

But meanwhile, they're right. You know who else should be doing that? The fucking Olympics. The fucking Olympics. They should all say, fuck you, pay me. They really should. That's the greatest scam in all of competitive sports.

[B]

Well, now they can now, I mean, the Olympic committee, but originally it was amateur, which is.

[A]

Well, they can. Meanwhile, like, what you mean is like the NBA players can represent the United States and play in the Olympics. That's cute. But what about the swimmers? What about the people? What about the gymnasts? What about the boxers? Those. All those people should get paid. Yeah, Every single one of them.

[B]

And only. And no one really cares about Olympic athletes. But every four years, like, right. A buddy of mine won the shoot, the 2004 Shot Put Olympics and he was like, I still have to ask my mom for money.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

He's like. Because no one cares about the Olympics, but every four years, God. And you're like, you have a degree at Dartmouth, a business degree, and you're the Olympic champion. And. And he was the first athlete to ever ebay himself. So he had a shirt that says this space for rent. And so he would, he like, would put himself on the market, like kind of like the first nl. It's like, hey man, I have to make money throwing the steel ball. And I'm 30 something years old, I'm a world champion, and I still have to ask for money every three. Every four years or for three.

[A]

They used to do that with the ufc, used to be able to have sponsors, so. Oh, yeah, yeah, Anything you want. All like Condom Depot on your shorts.

[B]

How about those old days, like Tank Abbott and all this guy at least to love watching all that was in college. We were like, get it. Pay per view. And like, check it out.

[A]

Yeah, man. That's the, the dark days, the early days.

[B]

Those are.

[A]

No one knew what was going on. No one really knew what was effective. You saw some people were effective one way you thought that's the way to go.

[B]

And like, yeah, it was kind of like when you're in high school, when you would go sneak out of the house and go watch Faces of Death.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And it was like, wow, this is like this cool Thing. It's like the ufc.

[A]

Like, kids will never understand how difficult it was to see up things. We were young.

[B]

It was hard, really hard.

[A]

You had to try hard. You had to, like, know somebody.

[B]

He had no older kids.

[A]

Know somebody in the city. Someone. Someone in some dark warehouse that had a copy of some Barnyard Betty video.

[B]

It's always weird. Yeah. No, it's just like. Yeah, you rode your bike all around and you, like, find some weird wood pile.

[A]

I remember when we were kids, someone had a video. I think it was like a Barnyard Betty type video, like when them ladies have sex with a bunch of animals. And one of us had to watch the door. So if we had a video like that, we're playing the basement. One of us had to go up to the top of the staircase and wait by the door so that no one could just open the door.

[B]

And then.

[A]

So if they open the door, you would pretend like, oh, I was just coming through the door. So, like, you hold it onto the door so they can't get in. Like, oh, sorry. And then the kids downstairs would hear that. They'd pop the tape out and pretend they were, you know, playing Atari or something.

[B]

Atari.

[A]

But you had to pop that tape out quick, because if mom caught you down there watching a chick blow a German Shepherd.

[B]

Yeah. That didn't have pan out.

[A]

And they were like, real grainy, like copies of copies. You know, like two guys get together with two VCRs and they record tapes.

[B]

Oh, yeah. With all the weird. You have to get the.

[A]

Yeah, you had the cables in the back.

[B]

So is that. Was that. You live in the city growing up?

[A]

I lived in the suburbs. I lived in Newton. Newton is a suburb of Massachusetts.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Boston.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did you live in New Jersey at one point?

[A]

That's where I was born. Oh, yeah?

[B]

Yeah. So is my dad.

[A]

What part?

[B]

Hillside.

[A]

Have you seen all these UFOs in New Jersey lately?

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah, like, over the last few days, there's been this steady stream. They're not UFOs, they're drones.

[B]

Oh, I did see something. I think you posted something about the drones or something, right?

[A]

I don't think I did somebody, but a lot of people have been. But they're not moving in any extraordinary way. They look like drones. They do. It just looks like a bunch of. Thinks it's fun, right? Put drones up everywhere. But now there's all this, like, weird mythology attached to it where, like the governor was saying, sometimes as soon as we put eyes on them, they take off and. But if I Was a ufo, though. Like, if I was an alien and I knew that. A bunch of people are trying to be smart asses.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're putting these drones in the sky, like, perfect time to visit.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

These dipshits won't know the difference.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't have to use my cloaking technology. I could just fly over their head and they're gonna assume this is more nonsense.

[B]

Dude, my. One of my buddies, he probably weird. Even say, like, he had a friend that sent him a video of some weird stuff going on in the desert, whatever. And it went through and then he showed it to me, and then it just disappeared. And he was like, the dude he was talking to said it disappeared, but then, like, can you have a file that kind of self destructs? Because it disappeared on his phone too. He's like, how do they take this. They take this off of my phone? I don't know.

[A]

I mean, I've never heard of a file. Jamie, have you ever heard of a video file that self destructs or that someone. That's like some Mission Impossible?

[B]

Yeah. Someone could chirp into it and, like. But it was wild. Like, he.

[A]

Remember that? Like, this recording will destroy.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[A]

In 30 seconds.

[B]

Yeah, that was wild. I wondered, though, like, could they somehow backtrack it? Where had it been shared?

[A]

Well, that would be problematic because then they would have access to things on your phone, I think.

[B]

I doubt that's ever a case.

[A]

More likely would be they put like a time that someone could watch the video into the video where it's valid. It's probably still fixable if someone still has.

[B]

Well, this dude took the video and.

[A]

Did it on his phone, and did.

[B]

On his phone and shared it. And then he said one day he just looked into it, looked in his phone, it was gone.

[A]

He might be retarded.

[B]

Well, that could be the case. But my buddy's like, it's off my phone too.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know, man. It's hard to say. It might be real, though. I've never heard of that happening, though, which I would assume that I would have heard of something like that, Especially with the amount of people that I talked to that are in the UFO world.

[B]

Excuse me.

[A]

A thread on Reddit about a glitch in iOS 17 that might have made some people's videos randomly disappear.

[B]

Important ones that they wanted.

[A]

Right. And then they think it's the UFOs. That makes sense.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

This doesn't say anything about that. This is just like, why is this happening? This happened to anybody else. Okay, Google this. Is it possible to make a self destructing video that only has a certain amount of plays in it?

[B]

Well, that'd be cool, right?

[A]

Like if maybe you could coded into the video that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Once this video plays for, you know, whatever, 14 minutes. 14 minutes of play, it automatically 17 times decodes itself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, or randomizes its. Its path. Because it's basically just information. Right, right. Information viewed through a codec.

[B]

Does that have like a site, like a cyclical rate like this many times at like.

[A]

Because I know there's certain things, like someone will send you something on Instagram and you can watch the video, but then you can't go back and watch it again. Right. Yeah.

[B]

Or they send you a voice message and then it goes away.

[A]

Yeah. That's how Alex Jones likes to roll. He sends you voice messages and they go away. That's probably a really good idea for him. Yeah, smart move. Best not to have a paper trail. I don't even know like how much of that encrypted messaging stuff works. You know, I know when Tucker was saying that he was organizing that meeting with Putin in Russia and that the government called him up because they knew that he was meeting Putin because they had access to his signal, and he was like, what you have access to? I didn't even know someone could get into my signal. I thought that was encrypted. Nope, nope. They can get in there. So it's like how much of this stuff is really. How much of it is really encrypted and protected? And how much would they even let you know if they can break it? Why would they even tell you?

[B]

Well, that's the whole point. It's like, it's exactly what you would say, that you couldn't do it.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Yeah, that's.

[A]

But that was. They fucking spilled the beans.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So once they spilled the beans, like I know a lot of people, including Elon Musk, started questioning signal.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So I talked to someone in the government and I said, what can you handle signal? Like, how does someone is. As long as the state actor knows the phone number was the answer. So all they have to do is know your phone number. So if they know your phone number and you have signal, game over, boys. If you're, you know, I mean, I'm sure it's probably. They probably need to ask somebody if they can do it. It's probably not something they could just do. But if an agent is like, Bert Soren's acting a little fucking fishy. Let's see what he's signaling to his friends.

[B]

Yeah. And the opportunity to just decide subjectively if that's a thing.

[A]

And then whatever you carry in your notes and whatever is in your folders or your photos, they're going to all.

[B]

Kinds of ballistics for sure.

[A]

They've got all these weird crap.

[B]

They're gonna know where all my deer stands are and everything.

[A]

You got dick pics? They got dick pics.

[B]

All of it.

[A]

They have your dick pics. It's like there's no way around that anymore. I think that's. That's a myth, the idea that somehow or another you could have some sort of a protection from that happening today.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are you making phone calls? You are? Okay, okay. Are you on a network? Are you on WI fi? Are you like, I think you're fucked?

[B]

Yeah. You would have to think so.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's enough back doors and alleged probable causes or however someone wants to spin it that.

[A]

Well, that's also how they got Huawei banned from the United States. Because I remember, you know, I'm a bit of a phone nerd. And back in the day, Huawei had the best phones. Their phones were, like, way more advanced than some of the American Android phones that were coming out. Yeah, man. They had incredible cameras and, like, big battery life and like crazy zoom possibilities. And I was looking to get this new Huawei phone.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And then Huawei got banned from the United States. And I was like, what goes back.

[B]

To anything that's banned, man, it makes you really start questioning.

[A]

It does. But when they kind of all agree there was very little pushback, that there was real security problems with these phones. And not just phones, but network devices, routers, different components that had third party entrance. So they had the capability of accessing information that's being transferred back and forth on a network through these routers. And then I think people like, hey, why is that in there?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they realize, oh, the Chinese government is in complete cahoots with Huawei. Like, if you own a company like Huawei, you're down with the government. You have to be. That's how you stay in business.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You can't be some rebel out there operating on your own, making billions of dollars, creating, you know.

[B]

Yeah. Well, you had Mike. Ben was it? Ben's on. Yeah, it was a wonderful podcast.

[A]

Holy crap.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Eye opening.

[B]

Yeah, I spun that past a couple of my. My buddies. Actually, it was the same buddy that gave me the Yuri Bezmanov video that I gave you four years ago that.

[A]

Videos changed My mind.

[B]

Right. Yeah.

[A]

When you first sent me that. You're the first guy, by the way, ladies and gentlemen, because we played that on this podcast, like, all three times. Yeah. We were at your house when you played me that. I was like, holy. This is exactly what happened.

[B]

Yep. I gave it to Jack Carr and Evan Hafer.

[A]

There's no way that was a coin. Like, he just guessed it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. You're like, I'm gonna put this next baseball into the. You know, the third aisle up the thing and crack. Wow, that was cool.

[A]

Seat from the last. Yeah.

[B]

You're like, go back and look. So buddy of mine that's in that world, he gave that to me four or five years ago. He told me. He's like, this keeps getting deleted. And he kind of gives me the whole briefing on a lot of getting deleted from YouTube. He's like, they keep taking it down. No, I think, honestly, prior. Prior to you and Evan and Jack and guys like that, it was not easy to find. I think you guys just changed the algorithm on it enough. Wow. Which is pretty neat.

[A]

But that doesn't make any sense because I'm pretty sure we just found it online. He found it on YouTube.

[B]

He told me multiple times. He's like, they've taken this down often.

[A]

Why would someone take it down?

[B]

I'm not sure, but I know some of my buddies that were in the teams and stuff like that. They were like, oh, I remember seeing this back in 95 when I went through Buck Buds, or when I got out, maybe it was green team, but they were in that early, early days. Like, oh, I hadn't seen this video in forever. And then they kind of watched it. They're like, oh, my gosh. Like, you're kind of getting all the background that. But he's. He was giving me. I can't remember where I was going with this, but he was giving me some insight. Oh. About the bends. And it was interesting. And I said. I was like, hey, did you check this out? And he's like, yeah. He's like, sounds like he's read a couple of my briefings. I was like, interesting. Like Mike, Ben, some weird stuff going crazy.

[A]

Crazy recall, too.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Yeah, he just. No notes. Just spitting out all that information right off the top of his head. That's.

[B]

You've had some amazingly impactful guests on here. Like, I. I'm not trying to blow you up, but, like, I'm sure you know the impact that you've had on the world, which is probably really wild.

[A]

It's pretty weird.

[B]

Pretty weird, right?

[A]

Pretty weird that I didn't even try.

[B]

That's the best part about it, right?

[A]

That's the weirdest part. It was all an accident. 100%. Like, I just felt like this is what I should do. I should start a podcast and then I should keep doing it. Even when it was totally non profitable for like five years, I was like, I like doing it. Let's just keep doing it.

[B]

That's how all the good stuff works.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like you're passionate about it. I want to go do this thing. You know, Evan and I have talked. He's like, hey, I make brown. I make brown water. And I'm like, I make steel rectangles. It's weird. Like, I don't know why we decided.

[A]

To do it, but once you figure out a thing that you're really passionate about, then you'll become successful if you just keep following it. But the thing about the podcast thing was I managed to keep the same spirit of just doing what I enjoy doing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like if I could just have conversations with people with no phones and sit. And especially if I could get a scientist to sit near and explain things to me for three hours, I would have always been interested in doing that. But I just, it's. You can't do that. They won't do it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You have to become friends with them. And you can only be friends with so many of them, you know, and then you have to fly to them and sit down with us time.

[B]

And then you're like, you created a honey, a honey trap here. Then you're like, hey, I'll bring everyone here and talk to them.

[A]

As long as you can guarantee other people are going to listen. People want to talk about anything, which is really weird. It's wild. Like, that's the way you can guarantee that you can get them to come. As long as they're going to, other people are going to hear it. Right. So then they can sell books and.

[B]

Yeah. The whole deal.

[A]

Yeah. And it's great.

[B]

But it's, it's just genius that I just appreciate the illumination on varied ideas. Like, I love that there's people on the right, the people from left, people this, like this, hate this, like that is so refreshing.

[A]

It's good for all of us.

[B]

It is.

[A]

It's good to hear people, even that you don't agree with. Of course, as long as they're nice. As long as that's my course. I don't want to argue with anybody and getting fucking screaming Matches. There's some people that are there, like we were talking about earlier, that they. That's how they get engagement, by constantly getting in these. That's why they have those shows. Like, Piers Morgan likes to do that. Whereas, like, four people on the show, they all yell over each other and they're all remote, so no one's there. It's like, that sounds horrible. It's horrible. I don't find out nothing. If you could sit down with someone, even if you disagree with them and just let them talk, you could have a conversation. You know, find out why they think the way they do. You don't have to fight them on it. Just like, ask them, what is it about this thing?

[B]

Yeah. Candid and curious.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Candid as in I'll actually tell you what I think. And curious. I'll actually care what you think.

[A]

Yeah. And I always try to think the way they think. If someone's talking to me about a certain thing, like, I will, you know, people. Oh, you'll agree with anybody. I'm like, I kind of will. If I can try to see things through your head and I'll try to steel man it for you. Like, if someone is saying something and I go, okay, so you're saying that. But if it's for potential preposterous, I'll stop it. I'll stop and go, that doesn't make any sense. Because of this. Like, I can see that you haven't thought this through because. Or you didn't know about that or, you know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

How could you say this when this is possible? Like, how do you. How do you manage?

[B]

People will push back with kind of love. Right. Because disagreement doesn't have to mean dismissal.

[A]

No.

[B]

And. And when it does, that's the opposite of love and respect. It's like, no, no, I don't like you. Well, that's canceling.

[A]

Well, especially if people get shouty and argue. You know, it's like there's a way to do it where you can just talk about stuff and not be dismissive of someone. I see so many people do it where they have their opinion. Like Bill Marlux do that. Like dismiss something, someone saying, like, instantaneously as they're in the middle of explaining it. It's like it's kind of a sparring thing. You know, you're. You're trying to win rather than trying to just have a conversation.

[B]

Try to see if the other guy flinches.

[A]

Yeah. You're shutting them down. You're shutting down things you think. Are you calling bullshit? It's also a lack of patience. Right. Because sometimes you have. You have to have patience to let someone express themselves fully before you disagree, which is really important because sometimes someone will begin to express themselves and I disagree. But then they'll take it around and give me some nuance and some understanding of how they came to their opinion. Then I'll go, okay, okay. So I see. I see how you.

[B]

At least I see the truth of that.

[A]

Yeah. And so it's more important for you for this than it is to acknowledge that. And they're like, yes. I'm like, okay, I understand. So when did you decide that that was. And then. And then I want to go, like, I want to know, are you a real thinker or are you a person who has adopted a conglomeration of ideas that comes along with an ideology? So there's. There's really smart people that have done that, and they might not even know they've done that until you corner them. And then you find, like, where did it come? Where's the trans kids? There's like, occasionally, you know, there's a subject, like, make sense of this. You make sense.

[B]

Right? Yeah. Follow it upstream the source and then.

[A]

Make sense of this, and let's acknowledge what a kid is. You. I want. I want to know how vulnerable you think children are. First of all, I want to know, do you have any. Second of all, I want to know how malleable and suggestible, like, how open to suggestion are children in your eyes. I want to know, how do you think kids should be able to get tattoos? Do you think kids should be able to get married at 5? Do you think kids should. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you think they should be. What do you think that they can control and not control? Do you even understand children? Or are you sacrificing them and their future, these kids that you don't even know, for your ideology, for your ideological position. That's like cult like. And then you find that about people that think they're intelligent until they're confronted with these, like, insurmountable ethical dilemmas.

[B]

Right. A similar one to, let's say, someone who eats meat but hates hunting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're like, you could hate you. You can not want to do it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But there's still a killing and a murder at some point, and you could either be a part of that or just outsource it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And be okay with it.

[A]

Well, it's also. That's a cultural thing, too. Right. Like, there's a lot of people in the UK that don't, like, hunt. Hunting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they eat meat and, you know, they'll tell you. Like, my wife was having a conversation. She was at a dinner with a bunch of people, and I was out hunting, and this guy was eating a steak. He's like, that's deplorable. She's like, what do you. Where do you think that came from?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is so stupid. Like, you're literally carving a steak while you're saying it's deplorable that someone's out hunting. Like, we eat those animals.

[B]

And what is generally. And I've had this conversation a number of times as well. And generally, if folks are candid, curious, and respectful, you could kind of. Kind of bring them around, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Have you had someone that really just dug their heels in or like.

[A]

No. No, Never really in person.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Online, they'll dig their heels into the cows come home. But I feel like most people. This is why talking online sucks.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Most people are good people. I really believe that. Even if they're, like, trapped in their. And wrapped up in their own head. And most people want to be if.

[B]

Given the chance to be.

[A]

Yeah. And you can kind of help them along. You kind of help them along. They help each other along. You know, like part of an argument is you. Like, it's. I know that there's arguments that I've been in my life that I could have avoided if I was more skillful with conversation. And I know that I have avoided a lot of arguments, especially now as a smarter person than I was when I was younger. I'm better at it. I'm better at just, like, not biting on some bullshit, passive aggressive, stupid thing that some guy says. When I was young, if someone got passive aggressive with me, I like, hey, fuck you. Yeah, like. Like, let's just go to 10.

[B]

Where's that going?

[A]

Let's just go to 10.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't like how you're talking. Like, I'm not gonna sit here at this stupid party and pretend you're not a cunt. And, you know, there's been many times where, you know, I got dragged out of a situation before.

[B]

That accelerates things.

[A]

Yeah. Because I'm like, let's just go to 10. You're a piece of shit. Like, I know what you are.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're just a shitty person. Likes to throw jabs at people when I'm just trying to be nice.

[B]

Yeah. And you also know in your pocket, you know, a lot of physical things that could be advantageous.

[A]

But it Also, it helps that I know that I'm being nice. So if I'm nice to you and you're being a cunt to me and I'm trying to be nice to you again, you're just thinking that you can just get away with this. And that's when I like to go, hey, you. And you see that look in their face, like, oh, no. Yeah. Oh, no.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You've gone into you land.

[B]

Yeah. Now we're here.

[A]

Yeah. And by the way, emotional pain is something that people think they can get a free slap. They think they can just get off on you and hit you with emotional pain. Like, if we're playing this let's hurt each other game, how about I just. You up?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, how about that? How about I just decide I'll spend the night in jail?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How about that? How about you? You know, because, like, that's what you're doing emotionally.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You're trying to create the abusive paint. You're. You're absolutely being abusive.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And some people have Make a habit out of, like, demeaning people to their face, and they think they can get away with it. It's a really shitty practice.

[B]

I do appreciate the people who physically put an end to that. Like, I've never. I've never really been, like, yeah, you know, I'll. I'll do what I need to do. Right. But I've never been like, I'm gonna go, like. Like, had a couple days I'm not proud of, because I. I kind of went ahead and hit that throttle.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

But in some days, unfortunately, you're not in the emotional state. And sometimes it is avoidable. And you don't avoid.

[A]

Yeah, that's the thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, sometimes it is avoidable. I'm so much better at that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When I was 25, I had no. I didn't understand that. You don't have to do this.

[B]

Yeah. I've. I've expressed my emotional immaturity at times. I'm like, yeah, I could really taken that one a different way. And you're thankful. You're like, man, I'm glad that one really didn't go sideways.

[A]

Because that's also, like, it could go terrible and somebody murdered. I mean, things happen, and zero question, can't believe what they did. And then all of a sudden, someone's dead. That happens every day in America.

[B]

Oh, I've. I've had a couple close ones that you just kind of. Everyone walks away. It's like, who. Because you get, like. It's like, what was that movie? Like, Sherlock Holmes? Remember when he could see the situations, and he, like, pauses it, and you can see, like. And when, like, pauses and you're like, this would happen. This would happen. This would happen. And then you're like, oh, there's a dead guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You back it up. You're like, glad that didn't happen. Okay, bye. I'm gone.

[A]

Bye. Just walk away. It's like, you have to learn that. And the problem with young guys is, first of all, their brain's not fully formed. They're impulsive. They do wild things. And then if they feel like they're being slighted, they feel like to be a man, because they want to be a man, you have to do something about it.

[B]

Well, it's the number one question every man has. Every man has the same question. Am I good enough?

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's the wounding. Right, Right. And every woman goes. Her question is, I'm hot enough. Do you see me? It's exactly it. Do you see me? And a man says, am I good enough? That's why there's sport. That's why there's fighting. That's why people try to make money. That's why they try to flex on each other. It's the little boy inside all of us going, am I good enough?

[A]

Yeah. And then there's the people that get past that, and then it becomes this ultimate challenge. Like, the ultimate challenge of life is the most difficult puzzle to solve.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you can solve it above and beyond all these other psychopaths. So you're competing with all these other people that are very much like you, but what separates you from them is the work that you put in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Discipline, drive, mindset, whatever. Whatever it is that you can find that gives you that edge to pull ahead with all the. From all these other people that are very, very competitive as well, doing the same thing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And with men, they feed off each other in those environments, like a West side barbell. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And then when you're. You're wondering that, and then when someone questions it and publicly questions in front of your boys or front or whatever, it's like, no, I'll show you I'm good enough. I'll do something stupid right now and end up in jail.

[A]

Especially someone who's just a walking dead man with a mouth.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like someone who knows they can't defend themselves, and so they just feel comfortable doing that publicly because they think they're being protected by society.

[B]

Like, that's the worst thing. Yeah. This. This actual false state of security. Like, man, we're in the jungle right now. You wouldn't be doing that.

[A]

Or when women think they could do it. When women get mouthy with men, like, don't do.

[B]

Why?

[A]

When I was. Was. I think I was 16 or 17 years old, I was in high school and there was this kid that moved into the neighborhood. He came from Iran and his family had a lot of money and so they had this. I think it was in Beacon Hill. I forget where it was, but it was a really nice neighborhood.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this kid had this giant house on this huge lawn. So he decided to have a party, of course. So he's. This is how he's going to make friends. He just moved here from another country. Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

So he has a party, and kids from every fucking high school came to this party. And I was at the party with a bunch of my friends, and I was walking up the staircase. I'll never forget this. So I'm walking up the staircase and then, you know. So it's like right here in front of me while this is going down, I can't remember what the girl did. She either slapped this guy or she threw a drink in his face. I can't remember which one. It was some offense, but I remember he uncorked a right hand like Roberto Duran. This dude threw a right hand like he knew how to punch because I knew how to punch. So I watched him, like, oh, good mechanics.

[B]

Yeah, right, right. Really unloaded.

[A]

This just blap. Just hit her on the chin. Her head snaps back. A guy catches her. She goes out and then. It's bedlam. It's bedlam. I mean, people are fighting left and right. There's people. People fighting in the stairwell. I had to run out. There's piles of guys out on the lawn. It spread like a disease. It was like within 30, Juice decided.

[B]

To hit this guy because of that.

[A]

It was screaming and then screaming started. People screaming at the people screaming. Which people were fighting the people that were screaming. It was the wildest thing. It was like a disease ran through the house like that. Like World War Z where everybody's like. And I managed to not have any fights. A couple of my friends got in fight fights.

[B]

Like one of the better fighters there.

[A]

But I was never interested in street fighting. I'm like, let me get out of here. I know what this is. I understand danger.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I got out there and. But I'll never forget that that girl thought she could hit that guy or do whatever she did. I forget what she thought.

[B]

I Wish I could remember quality. Kind of.

[A]

All I remember is because it's like 30. How many years ago was that? 40 years ago.

[B]

That's a while ago.

[A]

Oh, My God, it's 40 years ago. Yeah. So it was like this blap. I mean, just fucking. I'll never forget that, man. Horrible to laugh at it because she forgot a lot of things that night. She definitely might be listening to podcast grade. Yeah, she's probably like, that's me. I still can't talk. Like, she for sure got a broken face. I mean, he hit her so hard and her head snapped back. Just snapped. Like she had no idea she was gonna get punched by a big guy who knew how to punch, but he was like, hey, you, like, you just got the wrong guy with like 3 millers in him. And he just un.

[B]

The first time, that guy.

[A]

Probably not the first guy. He hit a chick.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cuz the way he did it was like. He didn't slap her. You know, he didn't slap her.

[B]

That's a scary.

[A]

He could have just slapped her or pushed her or something. You didn't have to KO her. But. Yeah, but there's women that think that they can just go up to a guy and yell because they're protected by society. They're psychos out there.

[B]

It just goes back to be nice.

[A]

Yes, be nice.

[B]

Like, be nice.

[A]

But there's like, you I'll fucking kick. I fucking kill you. Like, hey, hey, hey, hey.

[B]

Yeah, hey. I've been backed up a couple times with the bumps on the chest, and it's like, all right, all right, all right. Then you're like, backed against a car, like at a tailgate or something. You're like, yeah.

[A]

And when you say, don't touch me. Yeah, it gets hot. And then it's like, they might just touch you because you said, don't touch me. And, like, I'm telling you, don't touch me. And then you have to touch them and then. Oh, you're assaulting me. Like, no, no, no, you're still talking. So I haven't assaulted you. Like, if I assaulted you, this would be over super quick.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So let's not do that.

[B]

Yep. That happened to me in D.C. i was walking with my wife. And it's during when everything was popping off big, big time.

[A]

Big, big time things. People got real mouth, real real.

[B]

And we're walking through. And of course, you know, truth be told, I'm walking through. I'm. My wife looks like a Viking also. And we're walking through D.C. during the height of everything. Height of everything. No mask. Because I'm outside, and I'm a sovereign individual, and. Screw that. And a whole chattering group of a certain population of, you know, well, Santifa. And so they're. And I was like. And I just said, I'm not going to stop walking. Please move out of my way. Rob. Rob, you know, f you.

[A]

F this. That.

[B]

Then you just.

[A]

Meanwhile, you did nothing.

[B]

I literally was walking across, and they were 40 yards from me and ran across the street to come yell at me. Like a bark they ever seen, like a. Like a bear or a wild boar gets, like, bayed by dogs. And they're all like, yeah. And we're just walking, and it's like, okay, please. And we're trying to get to my hotel, and there's a cop. Because they boarded everything off because everything was crazy. It was like the four big groups were all doing the deal that weekend. And I was like, my hotel's right there. Sorry. I said, sir, do you think I really want to deal with this? Like. Like in there, everyone has their cameras out because they're like, big guy's gonna smoke somebody, right? And there's a whole deal. And then finally, one, actually one of them was chirping at me. She fell down and tripped over something, and I helped her up because that's what you do. And then get your hands on it. It's like, okay, man, can I please get to my. Like, this is a thing. So. And then they played music all night, till seven in the morning right outside of our hotel just to make sure that no one slept. It was. It was a wonderful time.

[A]

Fun times.

[B]

It was a great time.

[A]

Whatever happened to law and order? Why do people think that was a good thing? Why? There were so many goofy motherfuckers that didn't want people mad at them, so they started yelling out, defund the police. They started getting on board with that. Even Kamala Harris posted defund the police. Like, I mean, defund the police on Twitter. Yeah.

[B]

Like, when is this a good idea ever to, like, kind of cancel anyone? Like, there's like. Besides, like, someone that hurts children, like, after that, kind of do what you want to do. Right.

[A]

Well, that's not even a canceling thing. That was just people had decided that there was an enemy out there. I say this, that, like, protests are too much like war. You're on the ground and you're marching around with a bunch of people yelling. You all have a cause and you're all moving as one group. Group. It's too much like war. I think there's some. There's triggers. That's why mob mentality exists, because you got to be able to kill people if some shit's going down, if you're at war, because what.

[B]

It escalates.

[A]

Right. There's a mode that people snap into. It's called mob mentality. Why does it exist? It exists because at certain points in history, we have gone to war with other groups of people on this, on the ground. And I think that's built into your psyche.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And I think it's just like catching a fish. You know, you catch a fish. Like, if no one's ever caught a fish before, you catch, like. Oh, you get so excited. I think it's because your brain is hardwired to know that that fish is going to feed you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that's why it's exciting. And you're hardwired to know that if you're yelling and you meet an opposing group, those are the bad people. And you're going looking for people that are opposing groups because you got power. There's a bunch of.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, you're a bunch of bullies.

[A]

You're rolling deep, and you find that fucking white guy with the beard, and you're like, he's the enemy.

[B]

It was wild.

[A]

It was wild, but it was like an open door to this psyche that has always existed. That mob mentality has always been a thing. And if you open that door and you allow it to stay open and you don't do something to close it, with law and order, you have fucking madness. You have madness. And we had that. We have that on the streets in certain places in this country for months at a time. It was chaotic.

[B]

Bonkers. Yeah, it was actually pretty cool. In my. I would say none of that world was cool, but during my. In my town, they started burning stuff and everything like that. And my sheriff, he's a. He's a friend of mine. He's like, yeah, we shut that down fast. I was like, what happened? It's like someone threw a brick. I got center mass with a. With a beanbag, Period. First time I go, how long that take us? We haven't had a problem since. I was like, perfect.

[A]

He's like, you know, and that's kind. It's being kind. Yeah, exactly. The beanbag is being kind.

[B]

Yeah. Severe punishment really fast generally trains people pretty quickly. And then there's like, all right. Our town went back to being cool. Everyone's fine.

[A]

Yeah, there's. There's no reason for It. And it was crazy how quickly it all boiled over. And it was all these events happening together at the same time. Right? The COVID the lockdowns, the anger. Everybody got real weird because everybody was just locked in their home for months at a time. And then the George Floyd thing and the public outrage, enough, and the people are on the street. And then people were encouraging it and funding it. There was people that was. There were certain groups that were encouraging it, organizing it, and funding it, and they got money from people to do it, and they had pallets of bricks that were conveniently located on the street. All that stuff's real.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, we saw it. It was remarkable to see it in real time.

[A]

That's why it's crazy having a guy like Mike Benz lay out how it all is going down. And you think, oh, it's all organic. People are fed up. No, no. There's a bunch of people that are profiting off of this.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

They want this to take place. They want to be able to push new laws through. They want to be able to grip tighter, tighter control on censorship, tighter. These social media companies have to pay. They're responsible for this. No, no, no. You fucking funded it. You fucking funded it with tax money that was filtered through NGOs, you cock suckers. You guys are a part of this. You want this to happen. Happen.

[B]

Right? That's where everyone just like. Everyone just pause.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just like, pump the brakes. If he feels like. What was that song by Iron Maiden? I can't remember what. It speeds up at the end. That's what it felt like. The last four years, especially during 2020, I was like, no, this is the end of, like, paranoid or whatever it was. And it just sped up. And you're like, oh, is this how the end of the story goes? Like, as in humanity?

[A]

It could be, yeah. I think we got a taste of what's possible. But I also think. I think was horrible. Anybody who lost someone, anybody where it all went down, I think it was horrible. Don't get me wrong. But I also think we're lucky.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because we got to see it. It's horrible. If you lost your business, it's horrible. If you got forced to get vaccinated, it's horrible. All those things are horrible. But we got to see how many people are fucking cowards. We got to see how many people fold as soon as there are any sort of external pressure from either their surround or how many people got forced into it by their job. We got to see that. And we got to see how there are unscrupulous groups in power that will coerce people to do things that are not scientific, they're not ethical, they're not moral if they can profit off of it. And we got to see that. That they will use you as a human fucking ATM machine and they will figure out a way to maximize their profits and maximize their control. So now we know. So now we know. So now. You can't think that the world is some sort of 1950s movie where the good guys wear the whiteouts and the bad guys wear the black cats. You gotta realize, like, there's a lot of human interest shit going on. And humans have a certain interest in getting control over money and over people. And they do it whenever they can. And if they can do it through the guise of being progressive and kind, or if they can do it through the guise of, you know, whatever, pull yourself up by your bootstrap, like, whatever it is, they find a way to rationalize these very specific patterns of behavior that the founding fathers of this country fought against when they created the Bill of Rights and they created the Constitution. They did all that knowing that these human nature, these human instincts exist.

[B]

Yeah, it'll keep flowcharting back down to this eventually. It's like, hold on. People are people, and people are going to do people stuff.

[A]

And every time they pass something like the Patriot act or the Patriot act too, they just chip away at that. They're chipping away at that. And it's their job to do that in their mind.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's. It shouldn't be because there's not enough oversight of them. That's the problem. It's like, right. This is the whole concept of the deep state, which was always like, such a stupid conspiracy theory for the longest time. People. Oh, you're worried about the deep state. Until you are. Until you're like, oh, my God, it's real. Oh, my God, how did that kid get on that roof?

[B]

Come on.

[A]

How did. How did he walk around with a rangefinder like we were talking about before? Rangefinders? Yeah, that's what he had. That's why you use those folks for shooting people.

[B]

He's not golfing.

[A]

The whole thing was nuts. The whole thing was nuts. And we were all just sitting there going, oh, the deep state's real. Like, oh, someone. Someone did something here. How did his apartment get professionally scrutinized? Is there. Are there a team of people that are actually organizing something like this? Has this happened before? Why won't they release the Kennedy files? He Died how many fucking years ago? 1963.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How. Why don't. That's 61 years ago. How about you release that?

[B]

Yeah, maybe like.

[A]

Or, hey, how about you guys release that?

[B]

Yeah. Or there's maybe a reason.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you think that stuff's gonna. I mean, do you think 61 years.

[A]

Is not a lot of time, though? That's a good point. Like, maybe should wait another 60.

[B]

Makes makes sense, right?

[A]

People aren't ready yet. They're not ready yet.

[B]

I've thought about that a lot. I. I want to know, right? I want to see behind all the scenes. I want to see that. I want to see the Epstein's, the Diddy's, the. The Ken.

[A]

You know, Cash Patel says, first day, day one, let's go. That's what he says. Let's see if they get him in there.

[B]

What a stud, right?

[A]

Oh, man. That's the. If you are the deep stick. You know, he said he wanted to do he would close Langley and make it a museum of the deep state.

[B]

Jeez.

[A]

This is the first thing he said he would do. And then just reorganize everything and say, now go back to chasing criminals.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And stop attacking the fucking citizens. Stop spying on people, you fucking weirdos.

[B]

I'm so pumped about him and Tulsi. And, like, there's just such an awesome group of people that are just certainly interesting. I mean, it's.

[A]

I'm even excited about the way Trump is doing interviews now. Like he's doing. It's like he's become like a wiser person in interviews. Like, he did this interview with this lady from. I think it was NBC. The recent one that he did was over an hour. But even when he was talking to her, she was saying things. He's like, you know, you would be so much better if you weren't so biased. So he said to her, it was like a kind way of saying, do.

[B]

You think he always had that? And he's just so intelligent. He's playing different cards at different times.

[A]

I think he's realizing that part of the problem is not just the resistance that he faced, but his reaction to the resistance. And he still slips sometimes. Like, he tweets out, I hate Taylor Swift.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Which I thought was hilarious. I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that. I just love irrational tweeters.

[B]

Right, right. I mean, at what point does, like, the incoming president gonna just dunk on somebody?

[A]

Well, he wasn't winning yet. I think he was freaking out. You know, I honestly think he was freaking out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they had. They were doing a psyop, and they were all of a sudden making it seem like Kalmar Harris was the dream that we'd always been looking for. And they were tricking people who recognized that she was an unpopular vice president just three weeks ago. And everybody was all of a sudden on board.

[B]

That was spun around fast.

[A]

Jesus. It was wild to watch. But that was another thing. Like, if you can learn from it. Look, we got through it. It didn't work. But you should learn that the government will organize to do that, to protect their position of power. Because here's what's up. The people that are in power, we're not even saying they're evil. I'm not saying anything bad about them. But the people in the administration that's there currently, they're all going to lose their jobs. Okay. Or they keep their jobs. So if they can keep their jobs, what is. What's the way we keep our job? The way we keep our job is we present her as the best option possible. Even if they don't think that's true, they have a vested interest. You're talking about thousands of people that are in control of these very organizations that were going after social media, and we're getting them to take down factual information because it was dangerous to their narrative. So they have already shown that they don't have ethics. They have already shown that they don't give a fuck about freedom of speech and the First Amendment. What they want is to keep their fucking job and keep power and also not get in trouble for some of the shit they did that was maybe illegal, which we wouldn't even known about if Elon didn't buy Twitter.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I agree. I think the Elon buying Twitter was like that.

[A]

It's a game changer.

[B]

The game changer.

[A]

The fork in the road for civilization.

[B]

Yeah. It's wild to think it's.

[A]

Mark Andreessen has said there's two forks in the road. There's one, Elon buys Twitter and two, Trump turns his head and doesn't get shot. Those are the two. Yeah, those. If those two things don't happen, who fucking knows where we are?

[B]

I don't disagree. And you look at those both scenarios or both, like, one in a million. Like, how would a. The Trump. Like, Trump turns his head, like, that's wild. But then, like, how would a guy like Elon exist, first of all, in our lifetime?

[A]

Right. What are the odds?

[B]

What are the odds, right, that has the vehicle of Twitter or, you know, and all the things line up.

[A]

Not just has the vehicle has so much fuck you money, right. That he's willing to blow $44 billion on something that's worth 200 billion maybe, or rather 20 billion maybe. So one of the things that, like there's this narrative, like he's such a bad businessman. Twitter is worth $20 billion less than when he purchased it. No, no, it was never worth that much. He overpaid for it, right? He overpaid on purpose.

[B]

Yeah, knowingly.

[A]

Yeah, knowingly. He just, he wanted to take control of this fucking thing that has always been so important to us, which is the First Amendment. Yes. Exposed. Here's my favorite. People keep saying. I keep seeing this where people that go over to blue sky, they keep saying, what Elon's done is highlight right wing voices and accentuate right. And Twitter is overrun by right wing now. No, no, no, no. This is actually representative of the real country, which is 50 50. This is what you never had before because conservative voices were always censored, always. So now conservative voices and progressive voices coexist. And the progressive voices, who are the babies, don't like it because now they have people that think completely different than them. And they don't. They can't stop them. They're used to silence them. You used to not be able to say anything about certain things. You would get kicked off. And now you could fully express yourself.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And you're finding out there's people you agree with, there's people you disagree with. That is the world. The world is not some up echo chamber where if you say, you know, a man is never a woman, you get banned for life. That happened to my friend Megan Murphy. She got banned for life because she said a man is never a woman, which is biologically true. But they were like, no, that's transphobic. For life, for life, for life, forever. By. So they don't want. Want any narrative contrary to what they have accepted as doctrine. And that's what's so up.

[B]

Remaining dogmatic in the face of alternate.

[A]

Information and pushed, pushed by the government. This is what's really important.

[B]

And again, that's where you kind of look back and go, if something is being pushed by anyone, right. Follow the money, follow the track. Like, why?

[A]

So they're doing it under the guise of being progressive. So this is why they think it's worth doing doing. It's like if you can allow the government to censor you under the guise of them being on the good side, then you're Lost. Because then you've bought into this nonsense. And if you just looked at it objectively, you have people that are still supporting the military industrial complex, still supporting overthrowing democratically elected governments and other countries. It's still the same shit that you hated about the right and that same government. You've let them into your home and you let them control this most important platform of free speech in the world because you think they're doing it for your side, which is a good thing. Meanwhile, they're drone bombing people in Yemen. They don't give a fuck about you. This is so stupid. They're just trying to stay in power. And they knew that they were going to lose power if that Hunter Biden laptop got out. They're like, we're fucked. This could cost us 10 million votes.

[B]

And the wild part is, I guess because it's after the. But it doesn't seem like that whole thing really, really changed the scoreboard. And maybe I could be wrong.

[A]

I think it did. I think it did.

[B]

I don't think enough people were talking about it.

[A]

They didn't know if they weren't, if they. First of all, where do people find out things? Most people are not finding out things through the newspaper.

[B]

No.

[A]

They're finding out things through social memes. And if you can block it on social media, they don't find out about it.

[B]

Of course. There's so many things I talk to people about that, like kind of in our world, like, just everyone knows this stuff and I'll talk to people just on the street, whatever. They have no idea.

[A]

Yeah, most people don't have any idea.

[B]

And that's where I started going, oh, there's different narratives being spun to different algorithmic groups because we're all in the Truman show, our own Little Truman Show, 100%. And we all think that we know what's going on. And I'm like, hey, guys, we all have our different scoreboard somehow that's been put up. So, like, let's just question the scoreboard.

[A]

First minute and learn how to communicate with people you disagree with. And this is the problem with these people that wanted all the right wing voices banned from Twitter. Like, hey, guys, that's bad for you. It's bad for you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it's bad for your own objectivity, your own understanding of the world. You need to, even if someone's wildly incorrect, if they're wildly wrong, you need to be able to know that people do think that way. It's good for you. Yeah.

[B]

Make a good point. And like let's listen. Yeah. And I enjoy talking to people from all over and, like, much like yourself. And I stupidly got into some. Some DMS with, like, people just, like, hit me up and they're like, hey, then. And I'll just like, I'll ride the ride.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'll ask questions and this and that and the other. But it was very illuminating. Like, oh, wow. You're looking at a totally different scoreboard, a totally different game clock, a whole different thing. And it. It makes me at least question myself and go, well, maybe I'm watching. I'm the crazy one. Maybe I'm.

[A]

No, they're just a Cowboys fan. They're a Cowboys fan. The Cowboys can do no wrong.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And you're like, you. I like the Raiders, like, whatever it is.

[B]

Show you guys that's what it is.

[A]

It's teams for people who don't believe in sports, and that's politics for a lot of those. A lot of those are not into sports and they're competition. I've always been super reluctant to the whole team thing in the first place because when I stopped playing baseball and I started fighting, one of the reasons why I did it was like, I didn't like that little Billy can drop the ball and I'm a loser.

[B]

Oh, I get it.

[A]

I didn't like that.

[B]

I get it.

[A]

I like to rely on myself.

[B]

Like, I never played a team sport.

[A]

The most relying on myself to me was, like, fighting. I was like, we're the same weight. We. There's no trickery. You're three, two, one, go. You know, you're like, are you ready? Are you ready? Go. It was, like, so simple to me. Like, this is what I'm looking for. This is, like, competition. That makes sense to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this idea of, like. Like, joining a group of people and all of their opinions I have to agree with. Like, that's horrendous to me. Like, that. Like, what are the odds they're going to be right? What are they? Even in fighting, so many people are so wrong in their ideas. Like, there's guys in the gym that I'll hear them giving advice. Like, you don't need submissions. You want to learn submission defense. Like, what are you talking about? Don't tell him that. Like, you should shut the fuck up. Like, and this guy's a trained fighter in a gym. He's telling people, you just need submission defense. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You need to learn how to do it so you can even defend it correctly.

[B]

Just even know what's out there. Just like listening to the other side. Just like, hey, tell me why you believe X, Y and Z. That I think is absurd, but yeah, give me. Oh, wow. Okay, well, now I realize you're crazy. But at least I know it's also.

[A]

Like, who, who are you training with? Where you don't. No, why don't you go train with Fabricio Verdum and then tell me. You should learn your guard. You don't know what you're talking about. You're talking nonsense. You're saying. You're saying something from this very narrow minded perspective, like, you can only learn so many skills. Like, no, you could. You should learn the whole thing, right? And if you can't learn the whole thing, you're in the wrong game. Because these kids that are coming up guarantee you that. I watch some of these kids that are coming up in the amateur ranks and their kids that are fighting in the UK and they're going to make their way in the UFC. These motherfuckers are complete. And they're like 18. Some of these kids that are fighting in one FC, they're like 17, 18 years old and they're complete. They can do everything. Like, you better learn how to do everything.

[B]

Yeah, you're gonna meet that guy.

[A]

Yeah, that guy's out there. And otherwise you're in the wrong game. And if you're giving advice saying you don't need to learn that, like, oh.

[B]

Well, that's a good. Like, if you're ever given advice that someone doesn't need to expand their horizons, like, that's just right.

[A]

But imagine if that guy's your coach. And imagine you have a team and everyone, the team has to believe that.

[B]

Submissions be building that same narrative, right?

[A]

And then you get trapped with all these meatheads that think it's just all about ground and pound. And then you get triangled every weekend. You're like, I'm tired of getting triangles.

[B]

Yeah, well, it's the same tribalism and strength conditioning too. You either got get. Guys are like, oh, all the powerlifting moves, that's all you got to do. Bench, squat, bench, squad. And it's like all the other guys, Olympic lift. You got to snatch, clean and jerk and everything else is stupid. You're like, okay, guys, like. And I used to joke, I was like, I can look at your shoes and I could tell you what tribe you're in and what music you probably listen.

[A]

What shoes are. What are the shoes that you look. Converse All Stars. A lot of guys lift with those.

[B]

Because they'll be west side guys.

[A]

It's a hardcore dude.

[B]

A hardcore dude. He's going to run all. He's going to work run. Call Converse. He's going to box squat. Let me ask you this, Sumo dead.

[A]

Why doesn't converse make an all star with a wider toe box? Because I try to lift in Converse. My teeth are stupid.

[B]

They're hard. Hard. They're hard to do.

[A]

I like a wide toe box.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I like a vivo barefoot. Like that. But Converse are good because they're flat. There's not a lot of. There's no cushion.

[B]

It depends on what you're doing. Right. If you're like more of a. Of a, you know, wide stance, Sumo or box squat, because your feet, your heels aren't elevated, it's actually a better situation for squatting.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Well, if you're Olympic lifter, you're going to be closer. So you want a heels elevated with a flexible toe. And that's. So you look and you're like, oh, okay, this is what you're doing. And then I kind of laugh. Like, the guys with the cross trainers are usually just dudes that do a whole bunch of crap and they're doing plyos and dancing around and whatever. But there's always, like, these little tribal things. Like, if you're this person, you're wearing Chucks and you're listening to Pantera.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it's just part of the gig, you know? And it's always funny. And it's like, all right.

[A]

Some people think you have to lift heavy. If you don't live heavy, you're a pussy.

[B]

Oh. Or you have to listen to music at like, 8,000 decibels to lift heavy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And.

[A]

And slap your thighs and scream.

[B]

I've danced that dance before.

[A]

The power out of. Oh.

[B]

I've done the soul. I've done the. I've done the smelling sauce. Smelling, of course.

[A]

Oh, we do smelling salts in here.

[B]

Let's go. Yeah, let's roll. Gosh. Let's go. It's a good one, huh, Ralph? It's probably better than what I had back.

[A]

This is a good one. And it's not even that fresh. Yeah, it's not even fresh.

[B]

That's worse. Worse than I remember.

[A]

That's Juju mufoos.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

We don't. We are an unlicensed promoter of this brand.

[B]

Yeah, I know. Yeah. We used to do the little capsules and break them, and that's a whole different animal.

[A]

Yeah, that's. It's real. That's a whole jar of it. Yeah, it's potent. The fumes that come out are so strong. When you have a sealed bag, you could smell it on the outside of the bag. Then when you open the bag, you got a sealed bottle.

[B]

My ears are bleeding now.

[A]

Just the smell from opening the bag is rough.

[B]

Yeah, no, I just.

[A]

What does that do? Does that really help you? Have you ever tried to lift before that? And then it just snaps the central.

[B]

Nervous system kind of like, you know, when you're passed out. Right.

[A]

Does it make you a little stronger, you think?

[B]

More mad.

[A]

More mad.

[B]

More mad.

[A]

Matt's good.

[B]

Matt's good on big gross motor movements, squats, deadlifts. I used to call, like, deadlifts or just how mad you were.

[A]

They used to have the Strongest man competitions all the time on espn. Those dudes were, like, holding on the cars. Oh, so cross.

[B]

Yeah. The Big Stones and Atlas Stones.

[A]

It was fun.

[B]

Yeah. Watched them all the time in the 90s. And then actually, my dad was in 1980 at the Playboy Club. He was with Bill Kazmire when he did the Silver Dollar deadlift.

[A]

It was, what's the Silver Dollar?

[B]

He had, like, 900 something pounds of these, like, clear boxes and. And they were filled with silver dollars.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Super cool. And so there's like an iconic lift and, you know, Pops is, like, hanging out with those cats and. But it's funny because there's like, a whole picture of him and pretty sure. I mean, he was obviously training that. I think he was partying pretty hard to straight off of a ripper. And I was like, man, the 80s are awesome. Like, he looked like Magnum P.I. it was awesome.

[A]

Yeah, they were just learning things. Oh, the pioneer days, basically.

[B]

So cool.

[A]

You always knew that if you're watching the Strongest man, if the dude's name was Magnus, he was gonna fuck things up. Yeah.

[B]

These are for Magnuson, a Samuelson. If there's some sons involved.

[A]

You know, one of those guys is fighting mma. He's been fighting at Marius Pujanowski.

[B]

Oh, I remember Maris.

[A]

Yeah. He went from being a strong man.

[B]

To being, like, terrifying.

[A]

Really good MMA fighter.

[B]

I could see that in the beginning.

[A]

He was getting fucked up, but he tried to dive in right away. Like, he tried to fight God. He fought some good fighters, like, right.

[B]

Away when Marius was at the height, because we used to do a lot of. A lot with the Arnold Strawman Classic.

[A]

Sylvia, that's. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Did he.

[A]

He fought Tim Sylvia, like, really early on. Like, when Tim Yeah. So he fought Tim Sylvia in his third pro fight, and he got the. Beaten out of him. Yeah, like, that was just.

[B]

But I never fought Butterbean.

[A]

He beat Butterbean. He lost to James Thompson, and he beat James Thompson. Oh, well, no contact test, it says. Yeah.

[B]

What a stud.

[A]

Fought Bob Sat. That was Bob SAP was like, taking.

[B]

Kind of my dives. My. My buddy used to train with Bob.

[A]

Holes, Gracie beat Holes Gracie. Yeah, he knocked Holes. Gracie out. Yeah. So he's kind of like a bunch of, like, legit MMA fights.

[B]

Yeah. Puganowski was like, one of the first guys I ever saw that was that big, that had, like, vascular lats. So we were in the backstage, and it was kind of weird because, like, he was considerably bigger the year than before and I think even taller, too. I was like, this guy wasn't just like, well, there you go.

[A]

How did he get taller?

[B]

I was like, that's why I was.

[A]

Questioning all kinds of.

[B]

I don't remember him being taller than. That's amazing.

[A]

Taller. Look at the size of that.

[B]

Yeah, he was backstage and everyone was like, big, big. But it was like, Marius is in a whole different category.

[A]

Oh, he was a tank. See if he can find him now, though. He slimmed down considerably. He still looks huge, but as an MMA fighter now, he's. Yeah, see there, See, Click on that picture. No, the other one.

[B]

He's still terrifying.

[A]

Go.

[B]

What?

[A]

What? Above it. Right above it. Yeah, but, oh, what year is that? Oh, because it's blurry. Years old. Does it say that it's 22 years old? 2002. Okay, see if you can find some footage of him actually fighting. Maybe there's some. I'm sure he's got some high. There he is right there on his knees. Oh, here we go. He's still stiff, but he's got good technique and he's got a lot of power, man.

[B]

Yeah. Look at the muscles on the back of his neck. He looks like when those bucks during the rut, when their necks blow up really big.

[A]

But at least, like, he's. He's throwing correctly, hands up high. And this is all technical work here.

[B]

Well, like, Brian Shaw's been doing a little bit of sparring with Derek Wolf.

[A]

Oh, Jesus.

[B]

How terrible is that?

[A]

What does he weigh? 390?

[B]

I don't know. I mean, I know he was up to 440 something at one point. My dad is actually who got him in a strong man. He came by our booth at 18 years old, and my dad was like, hey, you're really strong. You should like, get into this.

[A]

Yeah, he should be on another planet. You're too big. He is too big for this planet.

[B]

Yeah. He was probably 240.

[A]

That makes me believe in the Anunnaki.

[B]

Right?

[A]

You know, Right. There's actually giants that are. That like, where what happened?

[B]

Hundred percent.

[A]

How'd you get so big?

[B]

Those dudes. You remember Cleve Dean? You ever remember that? So he was an old. They called him like a pig farmer. He was one one the original World's Strongest man, but he was an arm wrestling champion. And it was like all those old, like weird, like 440 pound, like just giant farmer. Yeah, there he goes. Yeah, that cat.

[A]

Oh, why is that poor little fellow arm wrestling?

[B]

I mean, look how big that human is.

[A]

Jesus Christ. Look at his hand.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Look at that photo. That's Big Daddy Goodrich, who's MMA Fighter. Look at that. The hand holding the. The table in the front. Look at the size of that.

[B]

Wild, right?

[A]

Yeah. If you could teach that guy how to throw a jab, you a lot of people up.

[B]

I would like to see a fight between him and Andre the Giant. Oh, God, that been awesome.

[A]

Definitely wouldn't be long, right?

[B]

Right. Did you ever meet Andre?

[A]

No, I did not. Yeah, I would like to have met him.

[B]

That have been.

[A]

I met Hulk Hogan twice.

[B]

Did you?

[A]

I met him once when he was super tall and then. Well, I met him multiple times, but I met him once when he's super tall and then now he's just like regular big.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, because he's lost like 5 or 6 inches of height for his back.

[B]

Oh, just getting compressed.

[A]

Back is all like, fused. His whole battle back is fused.

[B]

He's.

[A]

So how many surgeries did he say he had, Jamie? Some crazy amount of back surgery.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, his whole back is like. He walks with a cane. It's rough. It's because of. He went five in the last 10 years. 25 back surgeries.

[B]

Oh, so he just lost.

[A]

He said knees, hips, shoulders, face, abs. Oh, you've.

[B]

I'm sure you've met Stallone before, right? Yeah, yeah. Have y'all just talked like random old weird stuff like.

[A]

No, I didn't get a chance to talk to him very much. I interviewed him once for. I think it was Spike TV when I was doing the UFC thing. I interviewed him. It was fun.

[B]

He is wild. He's very similar to you. And so, like, wild, like remembers everything from, like those eras of stuff. And you know, Gunner Peterson. So I was at Gunner's gym in la and Stallone was in there. I was like, oh, badass freaking Stallone. Like, I'm a kid of the 80s. And I was like, hey, you know, would you mind? He sat down with me for 45 minutes.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And we just talk, like. But he mentioned Cleve Dean. Like, he remembered, like, all the arm wrestlers, the boxers, like, historian of the human performance world. It was like, oh, this is so cool. I figured you guys had to, like, have nerded out about it.

[A]

Did you. Have you ever paid any attention to the old catch wrestling guys?

[B]

No. What's that?

[A]

Okay. Catch wrestling was catch as catch can, which is what they used to call it, I think when it was when they were in England and then when they came over to America. It was called Cat Late. What it was was basically wrestling with submissions. And there were certain rules. Like you could pin a guy or you could submit them and they can tap. And there was a few guys that were legendary for their strength and conditioning routines.

[B]

No way.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Josh Barnett learned under Carl Gotch, and Gotch was, like, famous for having, like this unbelievable gauntlet of strength and conditioning work that you had to be able to get through before he would even train you.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. Like, he went over to Japan and Gotch trained a lot of guys. Like, there's a lot of interesting influence. Well, when you go back to the early days of catchers and I go back, go Farmer Burns. Because Farmer Burns was like one of the. What is this? What am I watching? What is catches Catch can. So these guys was that they would have did. Is that what it was?

[B]

Yeah. Back up for a second. So, yeah, Hackenschmidt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So he's like one of the fathers of strength conditioning.

[A]

Makes sense, because a lot of these, Carl Gotch and Hackensmith were duking it out at Comiskey park and they would have wrestling matches, but they were real matches.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And then somewhere along the line, they started doing carnival matches. And then these carnival matches they had, you know, regular people that they would find and they would, like, have predetermined outcomes. Then it became pro wrestling. And that's where pro wrestling was given birth to.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It was out of this necessity to kind of rig the matches.

[B]

Right. But getting the wahoo chop.

[A]

See, these are kind of enthusiasts that are doing it now, like in a modern, modern setting. But the. The guys who really know the stuff, like Josh Barnett has tapped out some legit Brazilian jiu jitsu black belts in competition with catch wrestling techniques. It's like Kimuras Americana's cool. They call. They call that a double wrist lock, though they have like different terminology for some of the same moves. But Farmer Burns was this guy that was. He was so legendary with his strength and conditioning that he would hang from a tree free. He would literally like hang himself. Like, his neck, his neck was so built up and he was a small guy. He was like 160 pounds, but he was so jacked. And his. He literally had like a pit bull neck. There's. There's photos of him where he would do this stunt where he would hang by the neck in front of crowds.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, look at him. That's him.

[B]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[A]

That's Farmer Burns.

[B]

Burns. Okay. Probably very similar to the mighty Adam, if you've ever heard of him.

[A]

But you know how strong your neck has to be to. And not just hang sometimes hang like all the time. Look at his neck.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

Look at his neck. But he knew that, you know, if your neck is weak, your body's weak, your core is weak. If someone collatize you and you got a neck like that, you can resist it and you could work your.

[B]

Yeah, anything that hangs out of your T shirt. You better train.

[A]

There was a bunch of those guys back in those days that just had these incredible strength and conditioning programs. And they used a lot of things like steel maces.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Like, Carl Gotch was. See if you can find Carl Gotch strength and conditioning routine. Because even like as an older man when he was teaching people stuff, he would show how he maneuvered these, you know, these big maces. It's like super impressive stuff.

[B]

Yeah. It just. But it's maneuvering something, not necessarily lifting it.

[A]

All that functional strength stuff. He would have those guys. Guys do 500 body weight squats every day. Every day.

[B]

Oh, that's cool.

[A]

So here's him back then.

[B]

Oh, gosh.

[A]

And a lot of it was like Hindu push ups. And look how flexible he was for a big giant dude.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like super flexible. So they realized that, you know, like we were talking about technique is very important, but also strength. Look at the size of his thighs, dude.

[B]

Look at them now. Neck. And then.

[A]

Yeah. And so he'd make these guys do these crazy wrestlers bridges. And look at how you could do that. Like support yourself and pull yourself back up like that. So the kind of like in resist against necks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So these guys would have these unbelievably grueling physical sessions and then. Then they do their technique.

[B]

Wow. So yes, they would attempt to, I guess, be a Pre fatigue. And so you'd learn well also, you.

[A]

Just had to be in phenomenal shape because in wrestling, you know, that's the first thing that goes. You must have ridiculous conditioning to be an elite wrestler. Look at the size of his fucking legs, dude. So Carl Gotch was just like, super famous for this. He's in Japan here teaching these guys.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And obviously this is black and white. It's just a long time ago.

[B]

Yeah. Have you ever seen the. It's a.

[A]

Who's he training here? Does it say who he's working with? That's a noki. Oh, wow. Of course. Enoki fought Muhammad Ali. Oh, okay.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You ever see that fight?

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, my God. It was like some crazy scam fight where Anoki stand on his face dropped to his back. Yeah. Work his neck so he's lifting him.

[B]

Up with his neck on his face. Good job.

[A]

Carl Gotch didn't fuck around, dude.

[B]

Yeah, that's obvious. That'll build your chin.

[A]

So Enoki had this fight with Muhammad Ali and Muhammad Ali's trying to punch him, and Enoki, he just goes to his back and kicks his legs. So he's. He. Muhammad Ali's legs up, like, they were really up for quite a while. Really after that. Yeah. So this is what they did. He just kicked his knees and kicked his legs. And Ali's like, what the. And it's in Japan and they're paying him a ton of money to do it. So the referee has to separate him. And the referee is Judo Gene Lebel.

[B]

No way.

[A]

Yeah. So Judo Gene Lebel's the wrestler, the referee. And Anoki is just lying on his back kicking him, and he's. He's kicking him with, like, roundhouse kicks. Like, look at this. He. So he's Ali's legs up, man. That's when you're a guy who makes his living off of his footwork, which was. Ali, like, this was super dangerous. Look, he's getting him in a leg lock.

[B]

So obviously this wasn't boxing. This is. No.

[A]

Was some weird hybrid fight that, you know, I think Ali just needed money and they talked him into doing this. But those fights get today. Is that sort of like what this was going on? These crazy exhibition real fights that are happening? Well, sort of. But this was real. Enoki was really trying to hurt him. He really did kick the. Out of his legs. And Ali really. See if you can find any articles on Ali's legs after the Enoki bout.

[B]

That's.

[A]

I think he really. His legs up because he didn't know how to check kicks. He didn't know what to even do. And all of a sudden this guy's on his back roundhouse, kicking his legs and stomping at his knees. Yeah. So who knows if his knees got hyperextended towards meniscus, like, who knows what the happened there.

[B]

Have you ever seen. There's an old Polish documentary that's them training in the 1970s and they're doing all that kind of crazy stuff, throwing logs.

[A]

And look at it. Said he has blood clots in his leg. Where does it say that?

[B]

Nearly ended Ollie's career.

[A]

Before I clicked on it. It said it in the like little sentences. Finally, the 15th round, they called it a draw. Wow. Ali is bleeding from the legs. He gets an infection in his legs and he almost has to have an amputation. Holy shit. Extended stay in the hospital was the best case scenario coming out of the fight. Wow. So Muhammad Ali suffering two blood clots and an infection in his leg from a no vicious grounded kicks, according to the sweet science. Wow. Wow. When he finally did so. Look at this. So he said he continued his tour of Asia despite this, competing in exhibition matches in South Korea and the Philippines before returning to the United States. When he finally did get back to the U.S. ali needed to stay in Los Angeles Hospital for multiple weeks to recover from injuries sustained in the Inoki fight. Holy shit, man.

[B]

He put him on ice, man.

[A]

They were concerned Ali's injuries could even be life threatening. Well, that's staph infection. He was bleeding from the legs, got an infection. His legs. Almost had to have an amputation, bro. Staph infections are terrible.

[B]

You had one?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, about two. Twice. Twice. About staff.

[B]

Not bad. I had a blood clot. Caught it both times I had a blood clot. One time I got jammed up, smoked my ankle and I was like, didn't think much of it. Felt like just kind of weird. Got hot, got swollen. I'm competing all over the world and I'm like, yeah, this kind of feels weird. And the doctor's like, hey, man, you need to get that shaked up. Of course. Jumped back on a plane, went across the country and they said that I had a blood clot from my knee to my hip.

[A]

Oh, yeah. So it's blocking off the blood.

[B]

Yeah. And my calf was giant. And what do they do about that? Just start taking blood thinner thinners and stuff. And so.

[A]

Which was cool, but you can't get cut.

[B]

Couldn't get cut. Which is kind of funny because I got on the blood thinners and I just pulled alligator tag, like, a couple days before.

[A]

No.

[B]

So I told. I told the doctor. I was like. He's like, don't do anything to get you cut. I was like, well, I'm going alligator hunting tonight. And he's like. And I was like, no, no, seriously. He's like, no, you'll bleed out if you get bit. And I'm like, yeah, but I probably won't bleed out. So I remember, like, in the middle of the night in the swamp, giving myself shots of whatever that stuff was in my stomach. And.

[A]

Oh, my God, it was amazing.

[B]

Not very smart. So how long do you have to.

[A]

Take the blood thinners for?

[B]

I took dissolves for about six to eight months.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Because I started on the shots, and then I went to, like, the warfarin tabs, and they had to keep checking me, keep checking me because they had to let it all break out. And so I'd have to once a month, get it ultrasounded. And there's no better way.

[A]

Can't they pull that out of there or something?

[B]

Yeah, that's why I would have thought they would. Tweezers, you know, that's crazy. It's crazy. So I was at Christmas party a couple months later, and my doctor saw me, and he was like, hey. And he was. Had a couple beers in him. So he's like, hey. He's like, you're gonna do you or you're one of your descendants are gonna do something special for this world. And I'm like, what do you mean? And he was like. He's like, you know where that blood clot should have been? I go, where? And he just tapped me on the chest. He's like, right there. He goes, no way. You shouldn't have died on that one. I go, really? He goes, you heated it, you iced it, you massaged it, you flew, you trained. He goes, you did everything. If you were trying to commit suicide by blood clot for months, he goes, how it didn't travel, I have no idea. Whoa. And. But when someone tells you that, you're like, well, that's cool. I guess things are going to go awesome for a while.

[A]

Or you just got lucky.

[B]

All right. Yeah. And then what happened? My. My lower leg, basically, it. Like, they said, it grew another vein. So it grew a bypass around it.

[A]

No.

[B]

So it. All the swelling started going down, and they're like, yeah, you. One of your min. Like, minimized veins or smaller veins actually grew in capacity and just worked its way around. They were like, the human body will do that I'm like, so it just worked its way around the bypass.

[A]

What would have happened though, if you didn't get that vein diluted with the.

[B]

Blood thinners or that blood clot, something to kick loose? I mean, it was right at my hip.

[A]

It doesn't go away. Your body doesn't absorb it ever.

[B]

I mean, if the hematocrit or whatever the blood, the thickness of the blood was still of that, if it ever broke loose, he's like, it would have gone to your heart of your head. That would have been a stroke or heart attack. And you know, but it's weird, like. And it was just an ankle injury. Ankle smoked it. And it's like, okay, you know, I'll be fine. Started walking it off. And what screwed me is the next day it was all black and blue, the whole deal, right? I'm walking, walking, walking. Everything's not. Not fine. It sucked. And I had to go on a business trip and I was like, let me go check and make sure it's not like broken, that I have to get it like actually fixed. I went to the doctor and they're like, hey, you gotta immobilize this thing. And I'd been walking for a week. And so they wrapped it up and mobilized it. And I remember I was on a plane, I was sleeping, and it felt like someone lit a fire in my calf. And I was like, wow, what was that? And I went to my hotel room and I filled the trash can up with ice and I just dumped my leg in there to cool my leg down. And that was like in May. And I competed at the Hammer World Champion all the way to Labor Day. And I was in, I was in San Francisco. And I'm like, something's weird. I pulled down my knee sleeve and one of the docs was there and he's like, what is going on with your leg? I'm like, I think I pulled a hamstring or something. He's like, nah, you didn't. And so I came back, call my guy at South Carolina Sports Medicine, and he got me in right away. And he's like, dude, you got a big ass blood clot. And like, you gotta get this squared away now.

[A]

Holy. Imagine if he didn't do that. Imagine you just, just die.

[B]

You just been like, hey, I'm.

[A]

One day you would have just died.

[B]

I would have been a 30 year old, really healthy guy that just keeled over. And so it's like that kind of hits you. And that was, that was honestly kind of the end of my competitive sports world because I started realizing, like, all I cared about was winning and all I cared about was training and winning. And I, like, I, I, for winning, spent social relationships being smart with my body and all this stuff because I was like, no, I'm going to win worlds, I'm going to go do this. I want to be top, blah, whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was just like, drive, drive, drive. And I was like, man, I didn't see this very obvious thing that could and should have killed me. It's like, I need to grow up. Like, I need to, like, refocus how I'm looking at these things. And so I had to mature and just like, okay, I've competed for, for 15 or 20 years or whatever it was. At that point, it's like, maybe take a pump, pump the brakes for a second and just go, like, am I making good choices for my family, good choices for my business people that rely on me? Because if, you know, cool in all things, but if Bert just keels over, like, you know, that's not optimal for really anyone.

[A]

It's, it's interesting how you can get completely caught up in one goal to the point where you don't see anything else in life and you just miss out on a giant chunk of life. But if you want to be the best at something, it's kind of the trade off. The Neil Brennan joke. That's the trade off.

[B]

Yeah. I've talked about, like, the, the rabbit hole guy versus the 90% guy. And like the 90% guy, which I think I've kind of turned into, like, if I train for something and get into something, I've generally found if I really care about it, I could be as good as is 90% of the world at it. Like, a lot of different things.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But if you're the guy that wants to go down there to be the best, the goat, you have to go down so far around the rabbit hole and forsake all other things to where you lose sight of reality.

[A]

By the way, you could still not make it.

[B]

And you could still not make it.

[A]

Yeah. You could be in the same weight class as Jon Jones.

[B]

Right. And you're just like, I picked the wrong era to be alive. Right.

[A]

Yeah. There's Mike Tyson in 1986. Whoops. So you want to be a heavyweight boxer? Oh, no.

[B]

Yeah. And that's, that's the weird part is like, you could be the rabbit hole guy and go so far down and lose sight of life and still be the number three guy ever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you know I kind of like use like the Yoda, like the Dagobah Forest, like that's where people went to get all the force. Like they don't write books about the 90% guy.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They write books about the weirdo that lived in the forest. There's a little green man that knew the forest. However, though, that guy might be miserable. Might be miserable, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I've seen it a lot.

[A]

Yeah. You gotta know when to stop.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's fun to do in the beginning, but you gotta know when to stop.

[B]

I mean, I would say you're probably as good or better than 90 plus percent of the human population at fighting. Probably.

[A]

Probably. Yeah.

[B]

You're probably better at 90% of the human population at shooting a bow. Probably.

[A]

Yeah, probably.

[B]

Right. And so you start looking at things, you're like, oh, the thing you want.

[A]

To be, Levi Morgan. There's a long road.

[B]

It's a long road.

[A]

It's a long road.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Long ass road. And like if you want to beat Gordon Ryan, you're probably never going to catch him because he's already still doing it.

[B]

Yeah. And he's not doing archery and he's not doing a podcast and he's not doing a thing.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And then so like I've had to kind of went to this thing, I was like, am I, do I want to be a 90% guy that enjoys semi balance in my life and is really passionate about three or four or five things and, and be really, really good? Or do I want to throw all my chips in and the probability is I won't be the goat?

[A]

Right. Especially if it's a competitive thing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Where it gets real tricky with some people is if maybe it's a thing that's not a competitive thing and you can keep doing it. Like my friend Gary Clark Jr. When he records albums, he goes crazy and he locks himself in the studio and he's there for like fucking 12 hours like every day. And it drives his family nuts. He's just like constantly working on his music because to him, like he wants to be all in.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like that's what, that's where he lives. That's where he creates this great music when he's all in. And you could sacrifice all the other things in your life, you're not going to work out, you're not going to go on trips, you're not going to. All you're doing is just whatever that thing, maybe it's painting, whatever, maybe it's writing books, whatever it is, you're all in.

[B]

And Although it's beautiful. I don't know if I'm that guy.

[A]

You don't have to be, you know.

[B]

And also I had to look at.

[A]

Myself in the greater. You know, if you're looking at the universe, if you look at the greater picture of everything, it's not really important what you do here in this life, but for you, it is correct. And the problem is, if you're compelled to try to be number one and you don't really chase it, you're always going to have that thing in the back of your head. I never really went for it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

At least you went for it for a long time. And that's the thing. Like that I think is the best way. Go for something and then. But know when to stop.

[B]

That's where it was.

[A]

Yeah. Don't be a 70 year old dude out there in the Olympics throwing a hammer.

[B]

Please don't. Please don't. No.

[A]

You're the oldest guy, whoever threw the hammer.

[B]

Ah, gosh. Well, actually, my. One of my mentors, Judd Logan, so he. This dude made four Olympic teams and the hammer and then got out of it. And he was a coach. And then every time that he would hit a 50 year, 55 year or 60 year, he would train for three or four months, break the all time world record in that way, in that age class, and he would go off again for five years.

[A]

Good Lord.

[B]

And he would just come back and he would do it again and just shatter the world record. And he would come back and he'd do it and he just did that up until pretty much when he, when he passed.

[A]

Did he keep training the entire time? Like, how did he be able to come back?

[B]

He was very genetically gifted and he would, he would just. He was a coach, so he was always doing it and kind of screwing around.

[A]

And then he'd get serious, but then.

[B]

He would get serious for the last little bit and all of his kids would come out, all these guys he coached. And I mean, he was just a. Oh, gosh.

[A]

Like when he was like 70, how far away was he from guys who were 30?

[B]

He knocked me out of the Olympic trial finals in 2004. And he was 40. Gosh, he was probably 45, 46 years. He was like a little bit younger than me now, but I was 27 and in my prime.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And that would have been his sixth Olympic trials. And you're just like. But it's Judd, right? Like he's a mythical Bill Brasky creature. Like he's, he's Judd. And you're just like, dang it. Yeah, Judd's gonna figure out a way to figure out a way. And he just generally. His fourth.

[A]

How many age class world records did he hold?

[B]

He went 50, 55 and 60. And then he passed away a couple years ago, actually. He got had cancer and then he had some Covid complications. It sucked, man. I mean, you talk about a guy that's just that statuesque, like best conversationalist, like poured into all these kids and stuff and just like he's the coach you always wanted to have have, you know, and you're just like, ah, but things happen.

[A]

It's interesting when you watch the way different people live their life because you could see benefits and you could see where would be a detriment to the rest of your life. And it allows us to look through these mythical creatures, like that guy, these Jon Jones type characters, these Carl Gotchas and go, but is that what I want to do?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

You should know what you want to do do. Don't get tricked into doing something you don't want to do because there's people out there that really want to do that. And if you don't really want to do that, you're never going to beat them anyway.

[B]

Ever. You're already most likely not going, right?

[A]

Already most likely not going to. But if you're not really sure, you're.

[B]

Dead in the water.

[A]

You got one foot in, guess what bitch you're going to get. That foot's going to be snatched up by a crocodile.

[B]

Yeah. One foot in the grave and one in a roller skate. Yeah.

[A]

You can't, you can't. You can't compete with a really obsessed, talented person if you're not really obsessed and talented.

[B]

And the weird part is when you look at yourself and kind of question that, like, am I a 90% guy? And some people aren't either. Some people are like, I don't care what happens, man. I'd be average. And that just sounds horrible, right?

[A]

Yeah. That doesn't sound like you're going to get anywhere and you're not going to be interesting.

[B]

Not in the least.

[A]

Yeah, that's the problem. Like you're not going to attract other interesting people because they're not going to want to be around you.

[B]

Right. And the biggest money. Well, that's helpful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The biggest part about being interesting is being interested.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, ask a lot of questions, be interested. Like, yeah, that's where I think one of your superpowers. Besides, you have a steel trap for a brain. You've Recalled things that we've talked about. Like, I was like, I didn't know he was listening to that. That was pretty impressive. But the thing is, when you come to that, like, am I a rabbit hole guy? Am I 90 guy? In my opinion, those are the only two choices. Like, the other ones, screw those. But when you kind of, like, really look at, like, have you ever seen, like, where your line really is?

[A]

My line?

[B]

Your line, like, when, like, you're like, I. I will go this far, but that's as far as I'll go, right? Like, down that rabbit hole to whatever that is or whatever stressor or whatever that may be. And it's weird. I hadn't done it. And. And in recent, like. Like, I had an experience. It was like, okay, there's my line. Okay, that. That's. That's.

[A]

What. What did you do?

[B]

I was in Africa, and. And. And I was hunting Cape buffalo, which is the most dangerous thing that kills.

[A]

Rifle.

[B]

Rifle. But still, it. It's one of those things, you get in there close, and everyone's like, go with the boat. Right?

[A]

Oh, you could die.

[B]

Yeah, you die. It was pretty hairy. It kills more people and everyone. Yeah, we had. They're actually awesome. We did the inner loins that night. Night in Namibia. It was fantastic. And that cool part about that is we donated the meat to the local village, and they were super stoked. Wild part is, after we gutted it, there's, like, you know, 400 pounds of guts on a buffalo. And I'm like, are y'all gonna, like, truck this out to the desert or out to the place and, like, let the hyenas. And they're like, no, the villagers are taken. I was like, the guts. And they said, yeah, no, like, there will be a party tonight. No, no running water. Hearts, lungs, liver, stomach, you know, guts. And they go, they will be so excited to get that. And so that was a. For me. I go, oh, we think we understand poverty. We think we understand in this country, like, what not having. We're like, oh, yeah, I didn't have a whatever. Like, no. This village is stoked to get 400 pounds of guts off of Cape buffalo that's been laying in the woods dead for the last 10 hours.

[A]

Really?

[B]

They were pumped.

[A]

Old guts.

[B]

Old guts. Old hot guts. And we put a tarp over it. So before we could get back out there to get the bull out of the. You know, out of the jungle or whatever it would be called. So it didn't get super hot, but struck a big black 2000 pound animal.

[A]

What are they doing with the guts? How are they eating it?

[B]

They said they'll. They'll wash out all the fluids or all the guts shit and everything else, and they'll put it on the grill and fry it and do all this. Like, they said protein does not go to waste and Africa at all.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So I'm like, you guys are gonna, of course, eat a heart. But they're like, yeah, they're eating heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, like, anything. Like, what does lungs taste like? Boy, I don't know. I don't know if I want to know.

[A]

I've always thought about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Because, like, when you open up an elk, you look at it like, can you eat this? Like, what does this taste like?

[B]

Have you eaten heart?

[A]

I'm sure, yeah. Oh, I eat.

[B]

Heart's good, right?

[A]

I love heart. I eat lung. I mean, liver, rather. I eat the liver and I eat the heart.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

But, you know, it seems like lungs are. No, I've never heard of anybody.

[B]

And then stomach and stomach line. I guess that's what haggis is, right? Is it haggis? Lungs. And you know what?

[A]

I know a lot of guys do. They take the call fat from the. And then they chop up meat, and then they'll wrap it in the caul fat and put it on the grill.

[B]

Ranella did that, didn't he? That looked really cool.

[A]

They did look real good. Season it and then wrap it in caul fat and then slice it open.

[B]

We ate the inner loins, and they were really good. But they were talking about how the. The. The villagers out there, they're like, yeah. All this meat that these hunters get, like, it all goes to the villages. I'm think people understand, like, how much that changes the game.

[A]

So when you say your line, what did you mean by that?

[B]

Well, they had another. Another opportunity to do a lion hunt.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I'm not interested.

[B]

That was my line.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was like. Yeah. For multiple reasons.

[A]

Well, first of all, you're not going to eat it, right. You could. I mean, I know dudes who eat mountain lion. It's delicious. Mountain lion is actually really good. According to everybody that I know that's eaten it. They're not lying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's people that are iffy on bear.

[B]

I enjoy bear. The rivets.

[A]

Of course, they know how to cook.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the reality of a lion is I don't think anybody's out there eating African lions.

[B]

Yeah, right. And they're just a multitude. I mean, they're a Big. I mean, I got nothing against the lion to start with.

[A]

They're too cool.

[B]

They're cool, but I don't want to eat a lot. They're big, they're scary. They hide really well. They're really fast.

[A]

They're dope.

[B]

There's a lot of.

[A]

It didn't exist. You'd be pumped. They've. If you, like, if somebody put one of those in a movie, like, what a cool, awesome animal, you know, so.

[B]

It'S just like, okay, like, for multitude of reasons, like, I'm. I'm a hunter guy. Enjoy this. Like, okay, not that one. Okay. And then not this. And then you start looking at even training. You're like, hey, I'll do this, but I won't do that.

[A]

Right. And I don't want to shoot anything out. I'm not going to eat. I'm not interested in that. I'm not interested in going to hunt something that's inedible. I just don't get it. I get how people want to do it, but I feel like the same about fishing. I kind of want to catch stuff that you can't eat.

[B]

Yeah. You fish a good bit, don't you?

[A]

Yeah, I love.

[B]

What's your favorite thing to fish?

[A]

I mean, if I really had the time and I don't, it would be like salmon fishing in a river that's some of the most fun because they're so big and they're so strong and the way they jump. And there's something about rivers. Like, ocean's cool. I love ocean fishing, but it's like, less personal. There's something about being on a small boat on a river and you hook a salmon, you see it jump. Like, my friend Ari and I, we went up to Anchorage a few years back and we did a show. We did some salmon fishing. It was really fun. And then I've done a lot of trout fishing. I love bass fishing. Yeah, Bass fishing is always fun. Top water.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yes. Late summer.

[A]

Him smash that.

[B]

That's the best big frog across the lily pad.

[A]

It's fun.

[B]

Yeah. Have you ever done a. I probably would be a bad idea for you, but, like, I put a green light under my dock in my house.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Dude. Cheat goat.

[A]

Oh. And they all come to it.

[B]

Coolest thing.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

So in this, in. In the spring and you know, February through March, April. And then right now they're happening again. The striped basil school under it.

[A]

Oh, whoa.

[B]

And it's like, you know, you're catching 4 to 15 pound fish every night. Every night. And so I'll sit up at the house and I'll. Yeah. No, seriously. So I'll be with the wife and she. We'll have a glass of wine. I was like, all right, we'll go to bed. And I was like, well, I'm gonna go fish. She's like, you're going fishing now? I said, I'll be back. Don't worry. And because you only get like two or three casts before they blow off the light, but you're going to catch two or three fish every night. On the first two or three, cast fast.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Which is awesome.

[A]

Well, it's a great way to get food.

[B]

Yeah. No. So you go catch a seven or eight pound striper, gut him, throw him in the ice, and then do it. So I would literally fish catch my two or three fish. And sometimes I got one of those fly fishing for him. So you catch like a 10 pound striper on a fly rod, which is badass, dude.

[A]

I went to Mexico once and we went mahi mahi fishing. And then they cooked it within an hour of us catching it, son. I was like, oh, my God, this. This is so much better than any fish I've ever had before. And then you realize that the more time it waits, after it's dead, it goes to supermarket, sits on a shelf, you lose all that.

[B]

You lose it.

[A]

The flavor of them. Right when they pull it, I'm like, this is the best fish I've ever had in my life. It's incredible. Yeah, it was so delicious.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, that's the best. You need to get one of those green lights on your dock.

[A]

Sounds like fun.

[B]

Oh, man. Deep Glow is the one. I'll send you the link for it. Super easy to do. And mine kicks on right before. Before, before dark.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[B]

And. Or if you get up early because they had the longest time to school on it and so they're like, everything's silent. You go out there and smash a couple. Sun comes up, it's great.

[A]

Oh, that's a good move.

[B]

No, it's. And then that is kids too, because then.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It makes you actually a bad fisherman. Because after that you're just like, I don't feel like going out. Like, I'll just catch them tonight.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then everyone starts like marking your spots.

[A]

It's like the guys out here that hunt over deer feeders.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It works.

[A]

It does work.

[B]

It works.

[A]

But they'll tell you it's like, well, we hunt, but yeah, it's kind of like farming.

[B]

Yeah. It's fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's just different.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not elk.

[A]

No, it's definitely. I mean, you're sitting down the whole day, waiting, eating chips.

[B]

It's good. It's a good time to check, catch up with emails, talk to your friends.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that's. There's a lot of that. Like, the ground blind guys like to sit in ground blinds all day.

[B]

It's a totally different thing I did this morning.

[A]

Yeah, it's fun.

[B]

I did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I enjoyed it. It was all. It was fantastic.

[A]

It's a great way to pig hunt.

[B]

Oh, yeah. You know, I stuck one two nights ago.

[A]

The thing about pigs out here too, is, like, they actually have to hunt them.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So, like, you're. You're actually doing a service to the environment by getting food.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you get a good butcher that can turn that into sausage, it's fantastic.

[B]

Yeah. My. Actually, my little boy, he killed his first pig last week. He's eight years old.

[A]

What was it like when you ate it?

[B]

It was awesome. We did it for Thanksgiving when he was like, wow, he was so super cool. So we yanked the back straps out. We. I marinated in Coke for like, six, 36 hours.

[A]

Coca Cola.

[B]

Coca Cola.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. I kind of broke it down. I learned that from Jen Rivet. So she would do bear with, like, Dr. Pepper.

[A]

No kidding.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they know how to cook some bears.

[B]

You know that work, you know? Yeah. So we did that and then, like, made a kind of butter and all this kind of cool, kind of, kind of drizzly deal, wrapped it in bacon. Could wrap pork and bacon, and then put on the grill. It was freaking awesome.

[A]

Do you know that guy? He's a cook. He's on YouTube. What is it his name? Guga. G U G. A Guga foods. He's always cooking steak. Like, different ways to cook steak. But the other way he did it the other day was he marinated it in buttermilk for, like, a week.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah. Took a steak, marinated in buttermilk for a week. And, like, when he pulled the steak out, you could see, like, the buttermilk was breaking the steak down. That's a Guga foods that. Dude. See if you can find his buttermilk steak one. Oh, he's cooking a brisket in Coca Cola. This guy is every human way possible to cook a steak. This guy's done it.

[B]

What's your favorite way to cook a steak?

[A]

I am a reverse sear guy. Yeah. I got taught that by Chad from Whiskey Bent Barbecue. He says that the best way, particularly for wild game. It's without a doubt it's the best way for wild game. Take it. And so here it is with buttermilk. So he did it 1 for 24 hours and he did one of them where he sat in the buttermilk for a week and he said it was sensational. Maybe one of tracks. Look at that.

[B]

Oh, yeah, buttermilk. Just pull. We do that with ducks afterwards. And pulls out a lot of. A lot of stuff out there.

[A]

That's awesome. This guy knows how to cook some steak.

[B]

Yeah. Let's do it.

[A]

My way is I like to use the either Traeger or the best way, honestly, if I have the time, is I use an offset grill or with actual hardwood.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So I'll cook, you know, get some live oak in there and I'll get it up to about 250 degrees and then I'll put the steaks in there with meat meter thermometer. And I get it internally up to about 120.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then either I sear it on a cast iron pan or I also have one of those infrared things. What are those called again? They sent it to me. I should shout them out. I know who. Sean Baker uses them all the time. But it's like a tray. Sean, it's right. Yeah. He's great. And it runs on gas and she just slide it in there and it's like an overhead grill. What is it called? Auto wild grill. That's it. Auto wild grill.

[B]

How about Sean being a freak for eating a bunch of meat and being a giant 70 years old.

[A]

He's fucking throwing insane weight around. No TRT. Wow. Nothing.

[B]

I remember him from the throws days.

[A]

Oh, do you compete? Yeah. Big fucking dude.

[B]

He's a monster.

[A]

And he's very smart, you know, and anybody who says you can't only eat meat, you need to pay attention to him because that's all he eats. And he looks super healthy. And he's doing jiu jitsu and training and you know, he's. He's older than me.

[B]

Yeah, he was at. He spoke at Summerstrong last year and came in and then he was deadlifting with everyone. He pulled like a six something deadlift and then like 400 for 25 reps or something like that. And he's just like, hey, I'm gonna go have another steak. I'm like. And got me kind of on it.

[A]

Eats steaks all day long. That's all he eats. He doesn't even take vitamins.

[B]

I don't think I know you've done Carnivore. I was actually. I actually called Sean about it because I was like, all right, I need to, like, give this a whirl.

[A]

But it's worth it. It's worth doing. Yeah, yeah. It's legit. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I don't. What happened. I don't do it all the time. You know, I'll eat pasta if I feel like it. I love vegetables if I feel like. But I would say 90% of my food is meat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Meat or eggs.

[B]

Meat or eggs.

[A]

I think that's the most nutrient dense food. My body reacts better when I'm not running on carbohydrates, I'm running on ketones. Or. Or when your body processes protein and turns it into glucose, which is just more regulated for me. You do whatever you want, but I would say try it. If you're a person that eats meat, I would say give it a shot. Just give it a month. One month. I did one time. I lost 12 pounds. I felt fucking great. I had all this energy, and I was like, oh, okay, I'm poisoning myself. I'm limiting my performance. At least my mental performance.

[B]

Right? Yeah. I started getting on it a month or two ago, just a bit. I was like, yeah, I give it a shot. I was eating a ton of venison. But, gosh, I love blackberries. Blackberries and cottage cheese, I think are like, the weirdest thing that I just. I could eat it.

[A]

I don't think there's anything wrong with fruit. Yeah, that's like a dinosaur. I eat fruit. So what Paul does is he incorporates fruit, honey, and raw dairy with me.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then Sean just eats meat, you know? But I can't imagine an argument where fruit's bad for you. I would say don't eat all the fruit. That's the problem. I could have a couple oranges or have a couple bananas or a bowl of blueberries with some yogurt. Why is that bad? It can't be bad.

[B]

It can't be bad, right?

[A]

No, they're. They're good for you. They're. They're filled with vitamins. They taste good. It's like. It's also. It's enjoyable to eat. A piece of melon tastes good. It's fun.

[B]

Again, I'm not trying to be the goat at not eating blueberries.

[A]

I think the number one thing is don't eat bullshit. And when you go on a carnivore diet, you are automatically cutting out a lot of bullshit. You're cutting Out a lot of, like, enriched wheat and processed fucking grains and all this bullshit. And you're cutting out pesticides that might be on your. Your. There's a lot of things you're cutting out when you're just eating steak.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you eat a lot of whitetail or. Now.

[A]

Yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, if I get one.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I have one in the freezer now.

[B]

19 elk a year.

[A]

Yeah, two. But I got it. I got two whitetails last year, too. I turned them into sausages. And I, you know, cook the back straps and butter and garlic. Oh, back straps of butter and garlic. That's one that I. A lot of times I just like to cook on a cast iron pan.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Especially whitetail. There's something about whitetail tenderloins with butter and garlic that is hard to beat.

[B]

That's my kid's favorite food, so.

[A]

Hard to beat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A little salt, garlic, butter, cracked pepper.

[B]

Oh, so stupid. Good.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

My son and I will eat, like, easily a full loin. Like, he goes, feel fantastic.

[A]

You feel like. You feel the vitamins and the meat. You know, it's like that's what an animal is supposed to make you feel like when you eat it.

[B]

Whitetail gets a. Like a bad news. Oh, just a white tail. White tails are great.

[A]

People are silly.

[B]

Yeah, they are.

[A]

Well, people are so silly when it comes to. I know. People don't even eat their elk. They don't eat their elk. They go elk hunting, and then they donate it to the.

[B]

A lot of work for.

[A]

They just like to hunt. Which, I mean, I guess. Okay, because you're providing people with free food and it doesn't go to waste. But it's the best food in the world, and you're not eating it.

[B]

Yeah, the best.

[A]

That seems so crazy to me.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

You know, I cook up every week. I cook up, like, a bunch of elk meat a bunch of different ways, and then I have it in the fridge. So that's my meal.

[B]

I saw that. Do you eat it cold?

[A]

Cold with hot sauce.

[B]

Is that.

[A]

I like to take a plate of plate. All right. Put some meat on there, dump some hot sauce on the plate and just dip it in the hot sauce and.

[B]

Any good hot sauce? Any specific?

[A]

Well, I like it hot. I actually have my own little collaboration that I did with Senor Lechuga. Three different hot sauces. One of them comes from my friend Andrew at Half Face Blades. He had one. It was so good that I said, can I include that one? Because I'm doing a Collaboration. We made an agreement. So it's like it has the half blades logo on it as well. That's with sun dried peppers.

[B]

I saw that.

[A]

Tell you what, all the stuff is go to the Senor Lechuga I made my son.

[B]

I got Andy to make me a half face blade for me, my dad and my two boys. So they all matching. And the goal of it was you either carry your dad's, your so sons or your or your brother's knife. So we all switch.

[A]

Oh, that's good.

[B]

I cut my. My son, who's eight years old now, I cut his umbilical cord with his knife. Which is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is weird. I sent that heavy. Yeah, it was awesome. I rubbed his first drop of blood into the handle.

[A]

Give him that knife. So heirloom tomatoes, winter truffle and reapers.

[B]

Now we're talking.

[A]

Yeah, that's Andy's and that one rules. But the other one's rule too. The habanera urfa chili paprika. That's a banger. And. But these are hot. Hot.

[B]

Where can I buy these now?

[A]

Senor Lechuga.com Sweet. Senior Lechuga Hot Sauce dot com.

[B]

Awesome. Have you ever done a deer leg?

[A]

If you can't.

[B]

I'm not like a hot hot. I'm not tasty.

[A]

It's tasty. Okay. It's gonna you up if you're not ready.

[B]

Like that.

[A]

Yeah, it's real like he. That. That guy makes hot sauce. It's. It's got reaper like it's legit. It kicks your ass. I sweat. My kids make fun of me because, you know, I'm bald. So like when I sweat, it's just pouring down my face, right. They're like, what is wrong with you?

[B]

Have you ever done a deer leg like the flip flop style? Have you ever seen the. What do you mean, Annie Flip flop guy? I have to cook it for you sometime. So badass. So you get a deer leg with a shank still on it. Super hot grill.

[A]

Put it on the coals like.

[B]

Well, the grills like hot as shit.

[A]

Like okay.

[B]

1100 degrees. Like cooking, right. Blasting. So he has a special sauce and his granddad, I believe, started it. It's a special sauce that's like the way to flip.

[A]

Flip flop.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Best way to grill venison. All right, let me see what you got.

[B]

Yeah. So you basically get this sauce. You mix it with. You mix it with wine. You paint it with a rosemary brush. You salt and pepper it and then you flip it. You just put it down on the grill, 30 seconds.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

While you're cooking that side, you're painting the other side. Salt and pepper in it. And you flip it. You shave the first quarter inch and then so that size. And so the long as it takes you to shave the first quarter inch, repaint it. Re salt and pepper it, and then you flip it. And so when you're in it, you're in. You're going to consume an entire deer leg in the next hour and a half. And you're in the. You're in granite.

[A]

Oh, you know what?

[B]

That's like so freaking.

[A]

It's like Brazilian steakhouse.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Like a chew, but it just boom, boom, boom, boom.

[B]

So we'll do it at parties and then like you get a couple dudes, get your boys, and you're all drinking Suburban.

[A]

Look at that. And just slicing pieces so good. Man, that looks sensational.

[B]

It's ridiculous.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

He taught me how to do it. And I've actually gone to a couple events and like, helped him out, but I've cooked him at birthday parties and.

[A]

Oh, that's a great idea.

[B]

It's so dope.

[A]

You know what I'm gonna do? I'm supposed to hunt with rinella in March. Maybe we'll try that.

[B]

Yeah, if you want me to know, I'll freaking cook one for you.

[A]

I'm sure you could do that with any other wild game, too.

[B]

Yeah, we've done it with sheep. We've done. Elk is kind of a monster.

[A]

Well, it's such a big leg.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But if you have a smaller sort of.

[B]

That is. That's the. That's the move. And now you'll paint it and then you'll salt pepper in it. Big ass knife. Like that so you don't burn your knuckles.

[A]

Looks great.

[B]

It's insane.

[A]

And what is in the sauce again?

[B]

He won't tell me exactly, but it's. What the. Come on, Andy, get with it.

[A]

He won't tell you, but it's. What is that?

[B]

It has all kinds of.

[A]

There it is. Two bottles of private reserve are flagship sauce. Oh, it's the sauce.

[B]

One bottle of.

[A]

Won't tell you what's in the sauce.

[B]

Right.

[A]

One bottle of red wine. Cabernet or Zinfandel will work, depending on if you're non binary. Mary. Salt and pepper to taste. 1/4 cup to one half bottle of rosemary infused olive oil. Boy, that's a big gap. Quarter cup to a half bottle.

[B]

It's like a glug, glug, glug. And then you Drink bourbon.

[A]

Three to four loaves of French bread, several sprigs of fresh rosemary.

[B]

It's awesome.

[A]

Sounds pretty good.

[B]

Dude, it's Bert.

[A]

I think we did like three hours 20 minutes. How long have you done up more? Three, three and a half, 3:30.

[B]

Let's know. Evan Hafer.

[A]

But dude, time just flew by.

[B]

That's super fun.

[A]

It was a lot of fun, man. Thank you very much. Thanks for your awesome equipment too. Thanks. I just tell everybody you outfitted my gym at home. It's fucking incredible.

[B]

Thanks, man.

[A]

Keeps me from going nuts. It's the best. I love all your equipment. It's fucking so fantastic. You know what I use like almost every day? Is that Frankenhyper. Yeah, that thing is so versatile.

[B]

Back feeling better?

[A]

Oh, it's so great. It's such a good device because you can do reverse hypers, you can do back extensions, you could do sit ups off of it. You do so many different things off of it.

[B]

I'll have a new module coming. We're relaunching it. So if you want bring your old one here and I'll put the new one in your house.

[A]

What are you gonna do? What is the.

[B]

It has some, some assisted and resisted abilities. So you could do some. Some. If you're not quite as strong, you're come back, return to play. So there's some different stuff that you could do with it.

[A]

Okay. You're very innovative, man. Your stuff is really cool. And you, you've also outfitted the whole UFC PI center. You go there, it's all sore. It's cool. Trying, man. Whenever I go to a gym and I see sore next makes me feel happy. Cool.

[B]

I appreciate it. Makes. I'll be honest, it makes me feel really happy when I see you wear sore neck shirts. It's like, man, that's dope. Like, I appreciate it.

[A]

My pleasure, brother.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

All right. Website sorenex.com sorenex.com There it is, the UFC PI. That's all Sorex equipment. Social media. What's your. What's your Instagram?

[B]

I'm Bert Soren.

[A]

All right. And there's the new machine X Factor that we just got today here at the studio. All right, my brother, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

[B]

All right, bye everybody.