#2246 - James Fox

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Joe Rogan Experience #2246 - James Fox

Host: Joe Rogan
Guest: James Fox
Release Date: December 24, 2024
Episode Number: #2246

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Introduction to the Episode (03:03 - 04:00)

After skipping the initial advertisements, Joe Rogan welcomes James Fox to the show. The conversation quickly centers around recent developments in UFO and UAP (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena) research, setting the stage for an in-depth discussion on government transparency and extraterrestrial encounters.

Notable Quote:

Joe Rogan [03:13]: "It's a very good time to have a UAP expert in."

James Fox’s Encounter with Ryan Graves (03:03 - 07:19)

James shares an anecdote about running into Ryan Graves in a hotel lobby, highlighting the mysterious nature of their encounter involving a "shadowy figure." This story segues into broader discussions about Ryan's expertise in drones and UAP technology.

Notable Quotes:

James Fox [03:24]: "I'll tell you the funny story about how I ran into him."

Joe Rogan [04:14]: "We had a lot of. We talked a lot of nonsense about aliens, but we also talked about the technology that he knows is state of the art when it comes to drones."

Advanced UAP Technology and Government Secrecy (04:23 - 08:33)

The dialogue delves into the advanced capabilities of certain drones observed in various locations like New Jersey, Florida, and San Diego. Fox emphasizes that these drones exhibit technologies beyond current mainstream capabilities, raising questions about their origin—whether they are extraterrestrial or part of a highly classified military program.

Notable Quotes:

James Fox [05:35]: "They found loopholes. They walked these evidence tapes out of the Pentagon."

Joe Rogan [08:53]: "Why don't they just keep using UFO?"

Historical UAP Incidents and Congressional Hearings (08:38 - 17:00)

James Fox recounts several historical UAP incidents, including the Vandenberg Air Force Base encounters in the early 2000s, where large, silent, and unusually shaped objects were witnessed by military personnel. He references congressional hearings where high-ranking officials like Admiral David Grusch have testified about crash retrieval programs and confirmed that some UAPs cannot be explained by conventional means.

Notable Quotes:

James Fox [05:37]: "Admiral Wilson ... the Vandenberg Red Square ... roughly the size of a football field, hovering over a missile defense system."

James Fox [16:06]: "Thank you for the opportunity to share my story."

Documentary and Evidence Presentation (17:00 - 22:04)

Fox discusses his documentaries, notably "Moment of Contact," which covers his 30-year investigation into UAP phenomena. He details efforts to obtain classified information, interviews with whistleblowers, and the challenges of verifying and presenting credible evidence. Fox highlights the significance of obtaining authentic photographs and firsthand testimonies to bolster the credibility of UAP claims.

Notable Quotes:

Joe Rogan [13:24]: "Whoa."

James Fox [17:00]: "The program ... it's gonna be on Amazon."

Public and Government Response to UAP Disclosure (22:04 - 39:00)

The conversation shifts to the public's reaction to UAP disclosures and the government's handling of these phenomena. Fox criticizes the lack of transparency and the seeming reluctance of governmental bodies to release definitive information. He points out the incremental steps towards disclosure, such as bipartisan legislation and increased congressional hearings, but remains skeptical about the speed and completeness of these efforts.

Notable Quotes:

Joe Rogan [22:01]: "So there's a big building built around the UFO because it was too big to move."

James Fox [28:36]: "This is America, we're going to have to back engineer it."

Drones and National Security Concerns (39:00 - 55:00)

Rogan and Fox explore the implications of advanced drones operating near sensitive areas like military bases and the potential national security threats they pose. They discuss the technology's sophistication, such as drones capable of silent operation, extended loitering times, and evasive maneuvers that make them difficult to track or intercept.

Notable Quotes:

Joe Rogan [52:01]: "Well, now I think he's much more interested because that's a matter of national security."

James Fox [54:09]: "But here's the question: is it possible to classify the location of a US battleship that's capable of having these things so big?"

Theoretical Origins of UAPs (55:00 - 74:00)

The discussion turns theoretical, with both Rogan and Fox contemplating the possible origins of UAPs. They consider extraterrestrial intelligence, advanced human technology, and the manipulation of space-time as potential explanations. Fox references historical instances and scientific theories, such as those proposed by Bob Lazar, to support the plausibility of non-human intelligence behind UAPs.

Notable Quotes:

Joe Rogan [73:56]: "If these stories are true, they're doing something that we don't understand."

James Fox [74:05]: "Ride Mars. I've been riding bikes for 50 years."

Call to Action and Grassroots Movements (74:00 - End)

Towards the end of the episode, James Fox emphasizes the importance of grassroots movements advocating for government transparency on UAPs. He promotes an upcoming Reddit-led campaign aimed at pushing for disclosure and supporting bipartisan efforts in Congress to uncover the truth behind these phenomena. Rogan supports the initiative, highlighting the growing public demand for transparency.

Notable Quotes:

James Fox [130:27]: "The Reddit community is banding together for a huge grassroots campaign for government transparency."

Joe Rogan [133:33]: "Well, you guys are looking at other stuff. I found drones that you can... they're not even commercially available."

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Conclusion

In this episode, Joe Rogan and James Fox engage in a deep and comprehensive discussion about the current state of UFO and UAP research. They explore historical incidents, government transparency, technological advancements in drone capabilities, and the broader implications of potential extraterrestrial intelligence. The conversation underscores the need for continued investigation, public awareness, and governmental accountability in uncovering the mysteries surrounding UAPs.

Final Notable Quotes:

James Fox [124:22]: "We have no idea what they are, but they're fine. Nothing to worry about."

Joe Rogan [165:18]: "I will. I will. Thank you, sir."

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This detailed summary captures the essence of the conversation between Joe Rogan and James Fox, highlighting the key points and insights shared throughout the episode. For those interested in the intricate details of UAP phenomena and the ongoing discourse surrounding it, listening to the full episode is highly recommended.

Transcript

[Joe Rogan]

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[James Fox]

Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a very good time to have a U Expo UFO expert in.

[James Fox]

A lot has been going on.

[Joe Rogan]

This is. You know, I had. I know. You ran into him. I had Ryan Graves on yesterday.

[James Fox]

Oh, my God. I'll tell you the funny story about how I ran into him.

[Joe Rogan]

You ran into him in the lobby of the hotel. Right.

[James Fox]

So the lobby told me they were all, don't use this one elevator. It's really rickety and it makes a lot of noise, and it's just. It's not very reliable, and just don't use it. So I didn't. And then I was leaving 24 hours later to come down and get some coffee, and I was like, ah, fuck it. Let me take the rickety elevator. I was like, they told me not to take it, but I'm gonna take it anyway. So I push the button. I'm standing there. I hear this. The door's open. I look, I see this shadowy figure in the corner. I'm like, ryan Graves, what are you doing? He goes, I don't know. What are you doing? I was like, are you doing what I think you're doing? He go, yeah. Did he tell you that? Did he tell you that?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, he did. He told me he ran into you. He didn't tell me the whole story about the rickety.

[James Fox]

Yeah, yeah. And he was like this shadowy figure up against the corner. Like, kind of just, you know, looking at him. He's looking at me. It was really funny.

[Joe Rogan]

We had a lot of. We talked a lot of nonsense about aliens, but we also talked about the technology that he knows is state of the art when it comes to drones.

[James Fox]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

And that some of these ones in New Jersey, they're doing things that you can't really do yet.

[James Fox]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Which is really fascinating because it's like.

[James Fox]

Okay, and there's the size of SUVs, right.

[Joe Rogan]

So is it ours? And we somehow or another have some stuff that the mainstream drone manufacturers at the highest level aren't aware of yet. Is it ours? Is it like some crazy military stuff? Because if it's not, and it's coming from the ocean, like, what do you mean it's coming? What the fuck do you.

[James Fox]

50 of them.

[Joe Rogan]

What do you mean? What do you mean 50? Suburban sized.

[James Fox]

So check this out.

[Joe Rogan]

Coming out of the ocean.

[James Fox]

This is really funny. I've been working with this guy. We've been communicating on the signal for a long time. Actually, he was through Proton. He was emailing me stuff about Virginia, the UFO crash in Virginia, and. But he was anonymous. One day I was like, he's really knowledgeable. And he was sending me stuff that was really helpful, like, you should track down this flight happened. It was going out of this airport, go to this base, and I was like, finally one day, I was like, who are you and how do you know what you know? He goes, I'm a retired United States Air Force Colonel. I was like, oh. And he goes, and I'm also an experiencer. I had an experience back in 1980, blah, blah.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, so what happened to him?

[James Fox]

He had a UFO encounter. It's in the movie towards the end. But anyway, he texted me yesterday and he goes, james, I really want you to explain to me how the hell you orchestrated a UAP invasion right around the time your film's coming out. I'd really like to know how you did that. I was like, I know I could.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you know what kind of a budget you would have to have to have drones running in the sky all over. How many different cities are reporting it now? Like, what's the numbers?

[James Fox]

It's exploding all over, all over the place. And it's getting midterm. I've heard California. I've heard Europe now. Bases in England, New York, New Jersey.

[Joe Rogan]

I've heard San Diego. I. I definitely wasn't there something in Ohio? Right, right. Patterson Air Force Base, they had to shut that place down. Yeah, that's Ohio, so I've heard. New Jersey, I think. Florida. Right. That was the one that Ryan Graves showed us a photo of that was from Florida. So, like, who. What's going on? Who knows?

[James Fox]

I was super busy. You know, I had the release of the film going on and so I was like trying to focus on that and getting everything lined up. And it was a huge push and all these text messages from all around the world are pouring in, like, what the hell is going on with these drones? And I was like, it's probably something conventional. I'm not going to worry about it right now I'm trying to keep on focusing what I got, what I got at hand here. And then I started getting more information coming in. More information that a buddy of mine called me and he actually went to Brazil with me a couple of years ago and he's like, bro, I live here. I'm seeing these things in the sky. I've seen them seven times now. They're the size of an suv. I was like, well, what do they look like? What do they behave like? He's like, well, they're making noise. I was like, oh, okay. Well that quickly kind of eliminates, you know, something non conventional in terms of propulsion. But then I got reports of objects that didn't make any noise and it would go silent.

[Joe Rogan]

What kind of noise it was making.

[James Fox]

Like a, like a, like a, like a, like a. Propellers. Drones would make, but loud. And they're. And they have. Yeah, they have a loiter, but they're big and they have a loiter. Time of hours. The average drone, like I fly drones for my films is like, you're lucky to get 25 minutes. These things are there for hours.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, five hours at a time.

[James Fox]

They go dark when they're approached by other, other objects. They're not getting picked up on flir at times. And then some of them make have no noise. I've heard crescent shaped. And then I heard about the ones that really got me because I contacted Chris Vermellon. I was like, chris, what is going on, buddy? I really rely on him for good information. And he's like, I really don't know, man. It's a real shit show. And the US government seems to be clueless right now. He goes, some of them are conventional, some of them are misidentified conventional crap. But there ones coming in off the ocean that are up to 50, the Coast Guard and police department are reporting that truly remain a mystery. And then you had Schumer at a press conference just like it was yesterday. And then he's going. And he's like, we don't know what they are. We don't know what they are. And the guy goes, yeah, so it's a uap. He goes, well, the drones. He goes, well, you wrote the legislation. It's a uap. It's Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena. Why don't you just use uap? I think they're using the word drone because UAP is almost too scary. Like some kind of invasion's happening.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what UAP is. Unidentified Anomalous Phenomenon.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So couldn't that be kind of anything? Doesn't even totally be flying.

[James Fox]

Well, that's the thing. Because it used to be Unidentified Aerial. Well, it was ufo, Unidentified Flying Object. Then it was uap, Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon. But then they're coming out of the water, right?

[Joe Rogan]

I feel like this is not.

[James Fox]

So they said, anomalous.

[Joe Rogan]

Why don't they just keep using ufo?

[James Fox]

Because it has. Because people associate UFO with otherworldly, and they. They wanted to take that, remove that baggage and make it a little less scary. That's my personal opinion.

[Joe Rogan]

I kind of get that. But also, it's just an unidentified flying object. If we find what it is, then it becomes an identified flying object. It doesn't necessarily mean it's alien.

[James Fox]

True.

[Joe Rogan]

But like, think of people jumping out.

[James Fox]

Of their windows right now. If they said UFOs are invading the East Coast. You remember World of Worlds, right? People were like jumping.

[Joe Rogan]

That's actually a very good point.

[James Fox]

So I think they towed it out. I think they're using the word drone even though they're unidentified. Just because of the fear factor. I think the fear factor is real.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I can't help but cringe when I hear that word.

[James Fox]

Oh, sorry. The fear element.

[Joe Rogan]

It's so funny.

[James Fox]

Sorry.

[Joe Rogan]

It was too much of a part.

[James Fox]

Of my life, too close to home.

[Joe Rogan]

So when did they start? Like, when was it acknowledged that this was an issue that was reoccurring recently? Like, you know, obviously there's always been something in the sky. People have always seen things. Who knows what they are, whether or not they're. You know, a lot of people see Starlink and they think it's UFOs, right?

[James Fox]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Joe Rogan]

But when did this drone thing that we're currently experiencing basically every day. When did it start?

[James Fox]

A couple weeks ago, maybe. Maybe a month ago. That's when I started really hearing about it.

[Joe Rogan]

But Jamie, is there, like I have any sort of official answer to that?

[James Fox]

I have something that. 20th, 19th, something like that.

[Joe Rogan]

Mid November. Mid November.

[James Fox]

I have something that. This is about an air base in Vandenberg Air force base in 2003. And this is not an anonymous. But this is about incursions over. Listen to this. I promised this individual that I met at Seoul Conference. He's a witness. He's a military guy. My name is Jeffrey Nusitelli. I served 16 years in the United States Air Force as a technical sergeant and a military police officer. In October 2003, my co workers and I witnessed a series of extraordinary UAP incursions at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. The initial event is known as the Vandenberg Red Square and it was first mentioned during the historic UAP hearing held in 2023. The case involved Boeing contractors who witnessed a huge red square shaped object, roughly the size of a football field, hovering over a missile defense system. The object was silent and had no visible means of propulsion. The contractors watched in amazement as the massive object slowly drifted east and vanished over the hills. I retained official Air Force records of the event, including the blotter form entry which includes the names and contact information of all the witnesses and provided it to select members of Congress, Arrow and the FBI. Arrow is a new UAP task force All Domain Anomalous Resolution Office. After the initial event, several other UAP incursions took place at Vandenberg. I was on duty during many of the encounters and I investigated the incidents as they unfolded. Now remember, this is not anonymous reporting here. They include a football football field sized craft that terrified security guards as it silently hovered over a bunch a launch facility before flying off at an unbelievable rate of speed. A brightly illuminated silent object that landed on the base flight line before accelerating instantaneously and disappearing into space. A huge triangle shaped craft larger than a C130 that hovered 50ft over a police officer before it drifted slowly over the base. A blue white liquid orb roughly the size of his house that hovered over his house on the base. The objects made no sound and had zero obvious means of propulsion. And he says my experiences with UAP were awe inspiring, exciting and terrifying. I don't know why UAP are flying over our bases and our neighborhoods, but I do know the UAP phenomenon is of the utmost importance to all of humanity. I currently have five other military witnesses to the Vandenberg incursions that are all willing to testify tomorrow under oath that these statements are true. We need answers to this mystery and better government transparency. Thank you for the opportunity to share my story. Former United States Air Force technical sergeant and witness Jeff Nusitelli.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa.

[James Fox]

Crazy, right? I mean, we're talking objects size of a football field.

[Joe Rogan]

That's bananas. And then they take off in insanely fast, just like the Tic Tac, straight up into space. So this was it. What. What was the exact date of this?

[James Fox]

This was 2003. There was a number of incursions during that year up all the way into 2005. And he has the names and they submitted it to the new head of Arrow.

[Joe Rogan]

That's interesting because that coincides with the Tic Tac.

[James Fox]

It does coincide with it.

[Joe Rogan]

I wonder if there's like, you know, vacation season, you know, it's like every few years.

[James Fox]

Let's go check out what those guys are up to.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what I mean? Maybe it's like a real pain in the ass to get here. Maybe it's one of those things, like you can go to Australia, but it's. Dude, it's a pain in the ass. It's 16 hours on a plane, it's a long flight.

[James Fox]

Oh my gosh, South Africa one time, and that was like 22 hours. I was like, this plane's gonna run out of gas.

[Joe Rogan]

That's exactly what I'm saying. It's like one of those things. It's like, you can do it, but it's a pain in the ass. So maybe they only travel to Earth every and again.

[James Fox]

How could these incursions have been taking place? And like here we are 20 years later and we're only now really starting to talk about them.

[Joe Rogan]

I think the reason being is if you don't understand it and you can't protect people from it because it's so beyond our capabilities that if just describing it accurately removes all confidence that our government has everything under control, that's one, one reason why. And also if you have no answers, you don't know what the hell it is.

[James Fox]

That's a very good point. Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

If you don't know what the hell it is, what are you even gonna say? Hey, there's something that came. We don't. The fuck it is. It's as big as a football field, shot off into the sky. We have no idea. They'd be like, what do you mean we have no idea? Hire someone who understands this. And then they'd be like, get him out of office.

[James Fox]

I remember like 20 years ago, bright eyed, bushy tailed, totally naive, still bright. I mean, still, still naive. But I was meeting with a general and I said, God, it'll be so amazing, you know, this story is like so unifying and we have this kumbaya moment and we discover that, you know, we're not alone in the universe and wouldn't that be amazing and blah, blah, blah, the implic for all of humanity. And he sat there almost chuckling at me and he goes, looked at me. And he goes, you got it all wrong, man. You got to see this through our lens. And I was like, through your lens? He goes, yeah, the military's perspective. I was like, okay, tell me. And I never thought about this before you just mentioned it. He goes, okay, imagine this scenario. We sit there and we say, you know, my fellow Americans, it has been brought to our attention that there are craft of unknown origin whizzing around with impunity in our airspace. They exhibit a technology that's light years advanced from anything that we have. We don't know who they are, where they come from, what they want. Shall they turn to be hostile? We have no visible means of defense against them. Thank you and good night.

[Joe Rogan]

You're fired. You're fired. Someone like Trump will come along, I'll make a deal with the aliens.

[James Fox]

Yeah, but you see that predicament, like, people always go, why the secrecy? Duh.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you have to have secrecy because you got to imagine the job of a politician in general. Right. Like you have to pretend that you're going to be able to handle situations that you well know you're not going to be able to handle.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, if you're running for president, you know that you're not going to fix this economy. Right. Stop.

[James Fox]

Just everything's going to be. I'm going to wave the magic wand and it's all going to be taken care.

[Joe Rogan]

No, you're not going to implement electric cars over the.

[James Fox]

Stop. Stop.

[Joe Rogan]

Shut the fuck up. There's not enough batteries. So you're. If you're lying about all that, you're probably going to lie about whether or not you can handle the alien threat. I will unite us. I will unite us as a planet so we can deal together with the aliens.

[James Fox]

Yeah. Yeah, let's do that.

[Joe Rogan]

All you'd have to do is just say some bullshit like that.

[James Fox]

Someone probably bends his ear when he gets into office and like, yeah, a.

[Joe Rogan]

Good speaker about that disclosure, J.D. vance, like a guy like that, very bright, young, energetic speaker. He convinced people he could talk to the aliens. He could convince people. He could convince people that he unite us all.

[James Fox]

Have you, have you seen the program?

[Joe Rogan]

No, I have not.

[James Fox]

Okay, so there.

[Joe Rogan]

Explain it to everybody.

[James Fox]

Okay, so the program, basically, it's funny because the last time I was on the show, we were talking about an alleged crash retrieval case that took place in Virginia, Brazil.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[James Fox]

In 1996.

[Joe Rogan]

And your documentary on it.

[James Fox]

Yes. Moment of Contact.

[Joe Rogan]

Amazing, amazing documentary.

[James Fox]

So we're talking about that and I came off the heels of doing the phenomenon which touched a little bit on a potential crash retrieval program. But then it was like, then it was the crash retrieval over in Virginia, Brazil. And then I got hyper focused on that and then I had sort of was a personal journey for me, was, okay, the elected officials, what do they know? And when do they know it? Do we have a crash retrieval program? That's what I set out to do. And then three months after I was on your show, In April of 2023, the highest level intel officer, David Grush, testifies under oath that there is a crash retrieval program, and the government does have definitive proof that we're not alone. So he kind of opened the door for me. And a lot had happened since the release of the phenomenon. And Moment of Contact, there was all this legislation, There was the first congressional hearing. There was behind closed doors, meetings with a number of intel officers and witnesses. And then you had the second congressional hearing, which was David Grush, which was absolutely phenomenal. I'm sure you saw that. And then just recently, just a couple of months ago, we had the third congressional hearing, which I actually, funny enough, got to attend. So it was the first time in my 30 years investigating, I was actually sitting behind people while they were testifying under oath about legitimacy of the phenomenon, as well as there's a Crash Retrieval program. I mean, people have to understand that. Feel like maybe these things aren't happening fast enough. Just a couple years ago, they didn't even admit that the phenomenon is real. Now there's people testifying under oath that we have a crash retrieval program. So drip, drip, drip. Things are happening. They're not putting the genie back in the bottle.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you wonder at all that you're being mind fucked? Do you wonder at all that this is a massive psyop and this is all just to cover up some very advanced American weapons technology?

[James Fox]

I think it's a very good question, and here's why I don't believe that. Because I have done 30 years of field research, right? So I've gone to China, I've been to Russia, I've been to Australia and Africa and South America, Canada, Alaska, all across Europe, United States, and I've investigated Close Encounters of the Third Kind. And I ask your audience, don't take it from me, but the United States Air Force investigated and categorized Close Encounters the First, Second, and Third Kind, right? During their official capacity. Project Blue Project Sign, Project Grudge Project.

[Joe Rogan]

Great fucking movie, by the way. If you haven't seen it, folks, Close Encounters the Third Time, probably the best alien invasion movie of all time.

[James Fox]

Dr. Hynek has a cameo appearance in that film. Did you know that?

[Joe Rogan]

I had heard that, yes. I don't remember who he was, though, but wasn't the French guy, Didn't he. Yeah, he's supposed to be Jacques.

[James Fox]

Jacques Fillet has a cameo. Well, There's a guy acting his part, but actually Dr. J. Allen Hynek, who's a scientific advisor to Project Blue Book all those years for the Air Force, actually has a cameo appearance smoking a cigar during the encounter.

[Joe Rogan]

And that's it. That's right.

[James Fox]

That's Dr. Hynek.

[Joe Rogan]

That's right. Smoking a pipe.

[James Fox]

Smoking a pipe. And he. A lot of the cases, right down to Richard Dreyfus face being burned by the ufo, those came directly out of Project Blue Book files. Even the description of what the entities looked like. Close Encounters again, Close Encounters of the Third Kind. This is the United States Air Force documenting this stuff.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

And he. And he took it directly out of Project Blue Book files and made a movie out of it. And as a little wink, wink, nudge, nudge, he has Dr. Hynek have a cameo appearance in the movie.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what?

[James Fox]

Most people don't know that.

[Joe Rogan]

It's. It's a fantastic movie too. It's a great movie because it's a movie that's filled with. It's not like standard UFOs land. Like there's some play going on. There's some weirdness to the way they interact with us that sort of is much more realistic in terms of like the things that people experience. Yeah, they experience interactions, very strange interactions. And when they had those little orb like things that were flying around the movie, that's all straight out of like, yeah, yeah.

[James Fox]

Oh, 100%. I remember I had a buddy of mine who was a pilot over Europe in the 70s, and he used to come for family dinners and he was always talking about. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. And then later we're all in. When I started getting an interest in UFOs, I was like, Michael, tell me about that UFO incident you had that red orb. He goes, it was just like. It was in the Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Steven Spielberg's movie. And I was like, ah. They took those files directly out of Project Blueberry files and right onto the big screen.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what the Foo Fighters were, right?

[James Fox]

Yeah, Foo Fighters too. They had little orbs. Yeah, little orbs.

[Joe Rogan]

Fighter pilots are flying around, they're seeing these things with them.

[James Fox]

Let me ask you. And this is why that. I don't think it's a psyop thing.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think it's a psyop either.

[James Fox]

Well, the reason why I don't is because, okay, I don't just believe Grush because he testified under oath and he's a high level intelligence officer. That's Very impressive. I believe Grusch, because his claims align with my personal research in the field. Remember, I've investigated crash retrieval programs, Crash retrieval cases. Right. And so I was. I mean, I. When I put out Moment of Contact. Well, actually, when I went in to put out Moment of Contact, people were going, james, you just dropped one of the biggest, most successful UFO films in terms of transcending the UFO community and penetrating a much broader, more mainstream audience. Are you sure you want to put out a documentary that deals with an alleged crash and live aliens walking around the town of Virginia, Brazil? Like, seriously, that's what you want to put out there? You got access to, like, Larry, Harry Reid, and all these intel insiders, and now you want to do that? You're going to tarnish your reputation. It's a bad.

[Joe Rogan]

Who gave you that advice?

[James Fox]

A lot of people did.

[Joe Rogan]

I wish you called me. I'm like, james, you can handle it.

[James Fox]

You probably heard about Moment of Contact, and then you thought, oh, this sounds too crazy that you watched it.

[Joe Rogan]

No, I thought, well, I always think a Crash and Contact sounds crazy.

[James Fox]

I know, and it does.

[Joe Rogan]

I always think that. But I would have never told you not to do it.

[James Fox]

Oh, okay.

[Joe Rogan]

I would never told you not to do it. You're really good at this. You know how to like. You're really good at, like, explaining, but.

[James Fox]

You look half the town talking about.

[Joe Rogan]

It, including the incredible story. It's an incredible story.

[James Fox]

It's a phenomenal story.

[Joe Rogan]

It's one of those stories where you're like, if everybody's in on this, this is crazy. If everybody's telling and no one. There's not one contrarian that comes out and goes, they all told me to lie. I'm not lying. This is stupid. They're doing it for tourism. Oh, yeah, One person. Come on. There's always some hater. There's always some hater who wants to ruin your gag.

[James Fox]

I remember.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what I mean?

[James Fox]

I told you. I remember when I was making Moment of Contact and I wasn't done with it yet, Lou Elizondo was like. He's like, james, he called me up, he goes, I need a copy. I was like, the film's not done. I don't care. I need a copy. Give me a rough cut. I don't care. I was like, okay, okay. What's the urgency? And he's like, you don't understand who's watching this right now? So I was like, okay, so I'm giving him copies. And I had absolutely no idea ever in 100 million years that I think we're gonna be having. Months after the release of Moment of Contact, a congressional hearing under oath. That was a crash. What year did Biologics.

[Joe Rogan]

Moment of Contact come out?

[James Fox]

It came out at the end of 2022.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you think Biden watched it? Do you think he sat down with Biden? That would have been wild.

[James Fox]

You know, he's been. Imagine he's been so dismissive at all. Like, you know, Obama said a lot more about it.

[Joe Rogan]

Why? Because he's already in space. He's in space right now. He's like, go talk to orbit right now. Around. Really?

[James Fox]

That's the best you can do?

[Joe Rogan]

He's like Dr. Manhattan. He's on the moon in a glass house.

[James Fox]

Okay, let's say if Biden. If you're listening right now, you have nothing to lose.

[Joe Rogan]

You're the President of the United States, sir. Release the hounds.

[James Fox]

He's never running ever again. Exactly. He's not running for a second term. You're. It's. Come on, we're done.

[Joe Rogan]

He's already pardoned more human beings than any president ever, ever, other than Carter.

[James Fox]

To the advice at the end of the program by Senator Harry Reid, who's now the late Senator Harry Reid. And I said to him, what advice would you give the president? It could have been any president at the time. And he said, don't be afraid of tarnishing your legacy by addressing this issue head on. And I hope that Biden gets to see that, and I really hope that President elect Donald Trump gets to see that people are ready for the truth. They've had enough of the line. I think we're way beyond that at this point.

[Joe Rogan]

I agree with you. However, When I confronted Mr. Trump, he was very cagey. Was he really very cagey? I've seen some things they told me some things he didn't tell me. He basically. It was basically like neither confirmed, confirmed nor denied. No, there was no eyes. I don't do that, especially to a pro like Donald Trump. Like, you're not really. Yeah, yeah. You're gonna do it to an actor or something. Shut up. So I just think Daniel Day Lewis told you that he just ate a baby. You'd believe him. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Like this idea that. What did his eyes tell you? What did his eyes. It depends on the person. Depends on the person. If it's your regular crackpot and they tell you a lie, like something's up. But there's people that can hide things. They can hide Things behind their eyes. I think he knows something. I don't think he's that interested. I think he's more interested. I think he's sort of a no nonsense type of guy that's. This is why you kind of have to be. To be managing multiple businesses simultaneously. Right. He's always done that his whole career, right?

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Managed being on the Apprentice while running these golf courses, while having these buildings, apartment buildings, hotels. He's constantly doing something, right?

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So while he's doing all that and he's playing golf while he's doing all that, there's. There's no time for aliens, man. There's no time for nonsense. There's no time for sitting around with your buddies, you know, smoking a cigar, going, what do you think, man? I mean, if they. If I was them, man, I would do what they're doing, you know, I wouldn't even. There's no time for that nonsense talk. That guy's got businesses, but we got.

[James Fox]

Objects of unknown origin flying over residential areas, flying over military bases, flying over nuclear silos.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, now I think he's much more.

[James Fox]

Interested because that's a matter of national security. I mean, people are freaking out, like, what the hell are we seeing? And they're going, we don't know what they are, but everything's fine. We're totally safe. There's no national security issue here. We don't know what they are, but you're fine. Don't worry about it. You remember what was the Steven Spielberg movie with the shark? The great white shark.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Jaws.

[James Fox]

Jaws. Remember? They're like, everything's fine.

[Joe Rogan]

The mayor, the mayor's like, keep swimming.

[James Fox]

Yeah, keep swimming. The water's fine. Everyone say, people are getting bit in half.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the perfect analogy, dude. That is the perfect analogy. That is it.

[James Fox]

That's fine. Go about your lives.

[Joe Rogan]

They're definitely nothing to do here in drones. Come on. Nuke sniffing drones. So what if some nuclear material was just stolen.

[James Fox]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

Off a cargo ship. Whatever, Whatever.

[James Fox]

Guys, all the, all the online conspiracy stuff is crazy. And I get a lot of it because obviously what I do, of course. And people send me all kinds of stuff. I. Well, hang on a second. I wish I could put boots on the ground, but. But no, that's. There's something really weird going on. And the fact that they don't know or they're claiming that they don't know what it is. And here's another really funny thing. I actually. In the, in the program that I did now, and I Hope you get a chance to watch it, because it's crazy. It's got tell people what it is. Okay, so basically I was talking about.

[Joe Rogan]

Earlier, Tell people the title, the whole thing.

[James Fox]

It's called the Program. It's gonna be on. It's on. It just came out. It's at number one right now. It's on Amazon.

[Joe Rogan]

When did it come out?

[James Fox]

Yesterday.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, beautiful.

[James Fox]

I know. So. So it came out yesterday. It's on Amazon. It's on Apple tv. And you can Google the. Because the algorithm algorithms are just starting to catch up with it on Google right now because everyone's like, I can't find it. Look up the program and then Google James Fox UFO documentary, the Program. You will 100% find it. It's being also made available internationally. They're working as fast as they can to get it up. It just went up yesterday. It's the most independent film from start to finish that I've ever made. And it, it covers what happened because everybody thinks the government suddenly had this epiphany, decide to be more transparent with the general public. That's not what happened. What happened is there were a couple of intel insiders in the Pentagon reviewing some of this classified data, or so called classified data, and resigned in protest of excessive secrecy. They found a loophole. This is Lou, probably Jay Stratton, I don't know for sure, definitely Chris Mellon. And they walked these evidence tapes out of the Pentagon through this loophole. They bent the rules a little bit and onto the front page of the New York Times, right? So that happened. And it got. It was just. It was exploded. You remember that? And since then, there has been this unprecedented push by a bipartisan group of lawmakers to find out what the intelligence agencies know and when they knew it. And so that started happening behind the scenes, right? So it was 2017-2018-2019-2020, 2021. And then in 2022, they're like, we're having a congressional hearing. Congressman Andre Carson, I think he's a Wisconsin, but I'm not positive. He put on, he spearheaded the first open congressional hearing, public open congressional hearing. And in that congressional hearing, they acknowledged the fact that the phenomenon was real. It was slowly introduced that we were not getting told the facts. There was a document that came out called the Wilson Davis Memo, and that was about the discovery by former DIA guy, Admiral Wilson of the crash Retrieval Program. That was like maybe 20, 20 plus years ago. And none of the names or anything in that document were redacted. I cover that memo in the film. And then 2023, another congressional hearing. This time it was David Grusch talking about the crash retrieval program. It's been a steady progression. And so a lot has gone on between 2017 and 2024. And that is what this film does, is it covers behind the scenes effort, bipartisan group of lawmakers, effort to find out what the intelligence agencies really know. Yeah. And people that were, you know. And in one of them, there's an encounter. And I think I remember you hearing about it because you wanted to get a hold of David Grush. And so you contacted me and I actually had a Dr. I actually had a drone up in the air in England. And I was. I know. And I had. I had my phone attached to my drone thing because that's what was using as a controller for the screen. And I'm flying the drone and there was a huge windmill. And I saw this windmill and I was like, that's gonna make a beautiful shot for the movie. And it is in the movie. So I'm up there flying it and the wind, the turbines are going round and round and I can't quite tell how close my drone is to him. So I'm paying really good attention and I'm getting close to these big turbines and all of a sudden my phone's ringing and it's you. I'm like, oh, my God, I can't not answer this. I gotta answer. So I answered it while my drone was up there.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, no.

[James Fox]

And we talked briefly and you said, hey, can you get me in touch with David Grosch? I said, yeah, I got a guy that can put you in touch with that was Jason Sands. And I guess you and Jason Sands talked about this alleged encounter in 1994 with this entity, alien, whatever you want to call them, in the desert.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[James Fox]

So that was. Crazy story.

[Joe Rogan]

Crazy story.

[James Fox]

But in any case, so when you watch the movie in the program, you'll see the drone flying dangerously close to these. And that's funny. A little inside thing.

[Joe Rogan]

So it didn't crash.

[James Fox]

It didn't crash. But I was on the phone with you when it happened. But when you watch the footage, it's like, wow, that's really close.

[Joe Rogan]

Is that guy public with that story?

[James Fox]

He. Well, so.

[Joe Rogan]

Because otherwise I would discuss it.

[James Fox]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because it sounded so nutty.

[James Fox]

No, no. Yeah. Okay. So here's what happened. This is funny because when I was in Washington D.C. with melon and. And this gentleman, Jason Sands, I'm using his name now, and Melon looked at me and he Goes, this guy's story is pretty wild. I was like, what do you mean? He goes really wild. And we're sitting down, having dinner, and Chris Mellon orders. He orders a. He orders a drink. He had a tequila, so whatever. Anyway, and we were all having dinner, and. And Jason Sands starts telling the story about this alleged encounter in 1994. And it's one of the craziest stories. And I've been doing this for 30 years, and this story is nuts. Okay. You remember?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah. So, yeah, I went like this to my phone. He was telling me, like, this one.

[James Fox]

Yeah, me too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, me too. So it was one of those way.

[Joe Rogan]

What the fuck did you just say?

[James Fox]

Insane. Okay, so tell everybody what we said. I will. I'll get to that in one second. This is the reason why I can. Well, this is the reason why I can discuss it publicly. I know. The reason why I can discuss it publicly is because he was gonna appear anonymously in the movie. And I was debating on exactly how to go about doing this, because I was torn. Because you got a statement from an individual, you don't have his identity. But I was in D.C. i put the whole thing down, and I said, look, if he was worried about his security, he was a whistleblower. He'd already testified to a number of. Of Senate Intel Committee, Senate Armed Service Committee, all about the UFO phenomenon. Yeah, about the UFO phenomenon. They're part of the UFO UAP Task force. They found him and they. He was giving them information and reporting on things. And so he goes, I'm really fearful. I don't know if this witness protection program is going to be that helpful. I'm just. I'm worried. I said, look, if you're concerned about the story getting out or not getting out, if you want, I'm here. You can come to our studio and we could film you on camera, and if anything happens to you, it could be released, and it could be a little insurance policy for yourself. He goes, that sounds great. Let's do it. So I did a whole film about it, and then I'm periodically posting clips or just still frames and updates on the movie as I'm making it, as I do on social media. And I posted this one scene, and it had a clipboard on. In the scene, and on that clipboard, if you zoomed right in, it had his name. So I posted the. By accident, I posted the damn thing, and my phone starts blowing up. Ten minutes later, you just reveal this guy. What are you doing? Take it down. Take it down. Take it out too late. Too late. So it was out there and he's getting all kinds of heat. So as a result of it, I'm giving the truncated version. He basically had to go through the Dopser process, which is basically pre publication of authorization of what you can and cannot say. Excuse me. So he basically could talk about a number of cases that were in the film. We had to blurp out one particular word, which in the movie. It's blurred out. We had to do that. That was. That was Dobser. So it was the winter of 1994. There was a unidentified flying object that was picked up on the base.

[Joe Rogan]

Old school ufo?

[James Fox]

Oh, yes, sir. Old school. It was. It was. It was a ufo. It was picked up on the base and it was recorded by sensory data and it was picked up on camera. It had camera footage of it from different locations. What does it look like? It looked like. It was weird shaped. It was like an unusual shape. And there's people talking about. It's in the movie and the film.

[Joe Rogan]

Is in the movie.

[James Fox]

The. The film footage that leaked from the base is in the movie.

[Joe Rogan]

So you can see what it looks like flying?

[James Fox]

Kind of. Yeah, it's. It's kind of blurry in some spots and. Yeah, you'll see it.

[Joe Rogan]

So it's in the program.

[James Fox]

It's in the program, yeah. And then you hear all the voices. I actually had the voices cleaned up. You can hear people talking about, what the hell is it?

[Joe Rogan]

Is there a clip we could see online? Just so I could show what it looks like?

[James Fox]

Damn. I'm sorry.

[Joe Rogan]

Could you maybe just say the actual name of the incident? Maybe find it?

[James Fox]

Yeah, try and find it. It's nellist Test Range UFO 1994. See if you can find it. People put stuff up, it's low and it's really bad. Yeah, true. Good point.

[Joe Rogan]

Because it's on Amazon right now. People put clips up so fast.

[James Fox]

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And there's other things on there. So in any case. So that. That. That video.

[Joe Rogan]

There it is.

[James Fox]

That's terrible. It's. There's much better footage of it. Yeah, there's much better footage of it. It's in my movie. I had it cleaned up. But yeah, that's it, basically.

[Joe Rogan]

Can I see it again? So that's what it looked like.

[James Fox]

Wait, the footage I have is. Is way better than this. Yeah, that. Sometimes it's so.

[Joe Rogan]

So what did it look? Jesus Christ. You know what that looks like, Jamie?

[James Fox]

Very weird shape.

[Joe Rogan]

Jamie, you know what that looks like? It looks like, looks like Terence Howard's creation, doesn't it?

[James Fox]

It's weird.

[Joe Rogan]

What is it? What does he call that again? But it was those things that lock together those. You know, the flying drone thing that he created. Linchpins. Linchpins, yeah. Terrence Howard created this fascinating concept for, like, a drone. Whereas it's like, propellers going all these different directions, and they. They sync up and they link together, and it looks like that.

[James Fox]

Oh, yeah. So it's. Anyway, so it's footage, people talking about it. What is it? We don't know. It's not. It's not identified. And it flies around the base, and that leaked. And the names of the other witnesses leaked three days later.

[Joe Rogan]

Can you explain? Sorry to keep cutting you off, but can you say what it did? Like, how it moved?

[James Fox]

It just. It was like. It was. Didn't have any visible means of propulsion. It didn't have any wings. It didn't have propellers. It just look. Looked like a. Like an object around sort of object. Weird shape, almost like a helmet or something with things coming off of it. And it was just moving around the base. And then nobody. Nobody slow, slowly at times. Oh, there it is.

[Joe Rogan]

Footage. Okay, that's it.

[James Fox]

That's exactly it. Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

It's definitely not a big balloon.

[James Fox]

And you hear. No, you hear everybody talking about it. The audio that goes along with it, and I had it cleaned up, is they're all talking like nobody knows what it is.

[Joe Rogan]

And so this is zoom. Is this why it's moving around like that? They're trying to keep it in focus. And it's all.

[James Fox]

It's all. Mr. Sands explains all of that in. In the film, the program, he talks about it. So anyway, so this leaks. People's names, the witnesses, leaks. And three days later, he's in a convoy. He's in a convoy. And it's early in the morning, and there's three jeeps, trucks, jeeps in convoy on a dirt road heading out Nellis Test Range. And they see what looks like maybe somebody was involved in a plane crash. There's somebody that was struggling out in the middle of the desert. It was early in the morning, wintertime. And they're looking at this individual like, oh, my God. Is that a per. That person. That. That individual needs some help. That. That individual looks like they need some help. They look cold. Their skin had a slight blue tint to it. And they're looking at this gentleman, and they're like, hey, stop the convoy. This person needs help. Medical attention. Maybe they had a plane crash. And so we're gonna help this person out. And they pull. They pull the convoy over. And this interval comes up. Individual comes up to the car. Jason Sands get out, gets out the right side of the door. And as he's getting out, somebody in the truck screams. He's got no effing ears. And Jason says, he turns around and he looks at this guy and he had the same kind of uniform that they had had on, but the uniform was just immaculate. Like, there wasn't any dust on it, no dust on the boots. And he was thinking to myself, well, that's weird. This guy's got no ears. This guy's some kind of mutant. And he looks at him and he said his eyes were a lot bigger. It's all illustrated in the movie. And then he starts talking. Like he said it was like a snake bite him. And he was just paralyzed with fear. He was. It was really scary. What am I looking at? Is this a human? Is this a mutant? Is this an alien? What is this? And he starts talking to him in gibberish. But he said he started to understand, like telepathically everything this. This person or entity being, creature, alien, whatever you want to call it, was saying to him. And he was looking for some kind of metal, and he didn't know tantalum. And I. And. And Jason Zen's like, you know, I don't know. I don't have any. You mean titanium? He's like, no. Tilium or something. And this conversation goes on for a bit, and then the guy just wanders back off and gets into that little craft that looked very similar to what you just saw there and flies away. And he's here. He sort of stair stepped away and everybody sort of came out of this comatose state. And off and off they went. And we have the names of the other military witnesses that were on duty during the encounter, the alleged encounter. People are going to criticize me because I'm reporting on a close encounter of the third kind. But this Jason Sands says he's willing to do a lie detector test. Like public. He's willing to testify under oath that everything he's saying is true. We have a date, we have a location, and we have the names of the other on duty officers. So what I'm hoping is, despite the level of criticism I'm going to receive for reporting on this, is that other individuals that have more information on this are going to be inclined to come forward. I also met with people in the Senate Armed Service Committee, Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, sorry, in the House and they said Jason Sands is who he says he is. He checks out. He has named previously classified or classified programs. He's identified the guy's legit, his credentials check out. And so I opted to go ahead and report on it with the hope that more information will come out on it.

[Joe Rogan]

Listen, man, there's nothing wrong with reporting on a story like that. There's been a bunch of them. It's not a small number of these things where people have experienced these things. And imagine if it's true, if it's true. They're not all liars. I can't believe they're all liars. Imagine being that person who had that experience and not have anybody believe you. Not only that, but it can actually ruin your reputation and your career to talk about this experience, which is the reality of it. And it's one of the things that stifled discourse on this until I think the New York Times really broke the ice, I think in 2017 when they published that all of a sudden, serious people who were unwilling to talk about UFOs before, just for the ridicule.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Now you. You've got the gimbal video, the Go Fast video. You've got fighter pilots, Commander David Fraver. You've got these people discussing these things openly and like, okay, this seems like something that a serious person can discuss now. Now. And so then it's open. But actually meeting one and talking to. It's like the Virginia story. Like when I told people the. The cop picked it up and carried in the car and the cop died, manhandled it, some horrible bacterial infection that they couldn't cure.

[James Fox]

He was rubbing himself down with rubbing alcohol, according to his family, that he was like, this is greasy stuff on my skin. And he was rubbing himself down and he had to stench. Smell grease.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

And then I interviewed the doctors. There's a couple of. Actually going back to Brazil next month. There are a couple of forensic pathologists that are willing to come forward that we're going to cover, kind of update the movie and re release. So it's an ongoing investigation.

[Joe Rogan]

Wouldn't that be the best protection from an alien planet's bacteria? If you had the most vicious bacteria on the surface of your skin. Right. Like, imagine like if you go to another planet and the way to mitigate the effects of viruses and bacteria on that planet is to have skin fluid that's like unbelievably toxic. Anything that comes near you just gets cooked.

[James Fox]

Yeah. Like a skunk, right? Have you ever had a skunk?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah, I had A skunk got my dog once.

[James Fox]

I. I took out this guy's garbage one time and he's like, hey, it's in my garage. And he flipped up the thing and drop it in there. So I like. I was like kind of hungover. I was. We had a party the night before and I went out to the garbage can and I kind of heard like some rustling in the garbage can, but I didn't really think anything of it. And I like lifted up and then I heard some rustling again. So I reached over and I put my head down inside and the skunk just turned and got me right in the face. Now I held my breath. I held my breath and I closed my eyes at the last second and it went right through me. It penetrated my molecules. It was so powerful that it was paralyzing, Absolutely paralyzing. Can you imagine? Just a smell. That's their way of defense. It's just this stench that just goes through your. Goes through your body, like, just paralyzes you.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy. Anyway, you got it in the mug, huh?

[James Fox]

I got it right in the face. Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

How long did it take before you didn't stink?

[James Fox]

Because you spent. Two weeks. It was several weeks. Yeah. And I tried the. I tried the tomato and I tried the baking soda and I think they.

[Joe Rogan]

Have special soap now.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Just for skunks. But when my dog got zapped, he got zapped in like 1980. I think it was 1980 because I was living in Jamaica Plain and she went out in the backyard and I think she thought that it was our cat because we had a cat that was black and white and she just ran right up to that skunk and it took her right, right in the side of her body like. She tried to turn away, but it got her all over her body. She was wet with skunk spay. Oh God, it was so nasty. I had to take her inside and I had to do it because she was my dog. I was 13. I had like, cover her with tomato ju, wash her down and she still stunk. The whole house stunk.

[James Fox]

It's so funny because I was getting ready for a road trip this a couple years ago, and I looked over and I was like, did we walk Duke? It was like 9:00 at night. We were exhausted. We packed everything up. We had the car ready to go for the next morning. It's like, do we walk Duke?

[Joe Rogan]

You walk Duke.

[James Fox]

Take Duke, our dog. So we. I was like, Ah, it's 9:00. I'll just let him outside. And I hear him, like. And then he goes. And I thought, oh, my God, he just got eaten. Somebody just ate him. I was like, oh, my gosh. I ran out there to look for him, and he comes running in. He jumps in bed covered in skunk. The whole house, like, it was so, so strong. It's unbelievable. That smell is just, like, so incredible.

[Joe Rogan]

And the way someone explained this to me, you know, like, animals like bloodhounds and bears, they have the insane sense of smell.

[James Fox]

Oh, God. Like a hundred thousand times stronger than ours. Right?

[Joe Rogan]

Right. But they can pick up parts per million the way we pick up scum. Skunk.

[James Fox]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

Think about that. So if a skunk gets hit by a car, like, a mile away, you can smell it. Have you ever driven? I don't know if it's a mile.

[James Fox]

I could drive over it, and then my car smells like it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, if you're in the. But if you're in the neighborhood where a skunk got something, you could smell it.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

For some strange reason, it permeates, like, it carries more than any other smell. With dogs, that's how they smell everything. They're like, oh, Roscoe's home. You know, like, they can smell things that you can't even imagine they could smell. Especially like a bloodhound. And then a bear can smell like. What is a bear's, like, ability to smell above a bloodhound? It's some something. Something crazy, my friend was sharks in the.

[James Fox]

In the ocean can sense blood from miles away.

[Joe Rogan]

Miles. Miles. Incredible. Insane. Miles away. They could smell blood miles away.

[James Fox]

I remember.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at this. 300 times. Look at this. This is crazy. Bears are sent the best sense of smell of any animal on earth. For example, average dog sense of smell is 100 times better than a humans. A bloodhound, 300 times better. A bear sense of smell is 7 times than a bloodhound's or 2,100 times better than a human's. Unbelievable.

[James Fox]

That's why they say when you go camping, put your food up in a tree or something.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, 100%. You have to.

[James Fox]

Yeah. You can't have the tent at all. Oh.

[Joe Rogan]

When I was a kid, we went camping and the. The bear broke open our cooler.

[James Fox]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. People just had regular coolers.

[James Fox]

You'd have, like, a little cookie in your pocket and be in bed. You're gonna have. You're gonna have an issue.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, 100%. Yeah.

[James Fox]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

100.

[James Fox]

I remember when I was a kid, I went camping and they were like, don't have Any food? I was like, yeah, whatever. Like that. No, no, no. Put that stuff. And they were really adamant. I was like, why are these guys making such a funk? The bear's not gonna smell a cookie in my pocket. Like, of course they will.

[Joe Rogan]

They'll look at that like a wonton. Like, look at that soft outer layer. And there's meat inside of it. They're gonna look at that tent. Like, look, it's trapped in there.

[James Fox]

Gosh.

[Joe Rogan]

The meat is trapped in the tent. This is crazy.

[James Fox]

What was that one movie called where they got the. The Grizzly man or something?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Grizzly Man.

[James Fox]

And they came and got him. Remember they. Well, he thought he won with the grizzlies, and then he got eaten.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a very complicated movie. That's a Werner Herzog film.

[James Fox]

Yeah, Warner Herzog. Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a really funny.

[James Fox]

And the camera was rolling and they.

[Joe Rogan]

Played it, sort of. The camera was rolling, but the lens cap was on. So there was an audio.

[James Fox]

So it's just audio.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

That's even worse.

[Joe Rogan]

The audio. By the way, folks, the audio you hear on the Internet, that's fake. Oh, that's not the real one. The real audio. Werner Herzog told the lady to destroy it. Destroy it. No one should hear.

[James Fox]

So he heard it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he heard it. It's long. You know, because bears don't kill you. They eat you. You know, like a salmon. They don't kill salmon. They just put their paw down and start pulling chunks off of it. That's what they do with people, too.

[James Fox]

That's terrifying.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, they don't have any predators, so they don't have to kill things. And then, you know, worry about someone taking it from them. You're not taking from a bear.

[James Fox]

Terrifying.

[Joe Rogan]

Especially a grizzly bear. You're not taking from a bear unless you're a bigger bear. So, like, all the other animals have to worry. Like, mountain lions kill quick because wolves will steal from mountain lions. And apparently in the areas where wolves have been introduced, it's actually become a problem because mountain lions are killing much more than they normally do. Because mountain lions will kill, like a deer or two deer a week, something like that.

[James Fox]

And eat. Yeah, that's a lot of meat.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, they're big. You know, a big mountain lion is, you know, £150. And they're. They're. It's a big cat. Their cats are just. They're obligate predators. All they eat is meat. You know, bears eat a little berries, they'll eat a bunch of. Not cats. So the Cats are killing more because the wolves scare the cats off of the kill. So if the cat's on a kill and a bunch of wolves show up, the cat will just get the out of there. Like why?

[James Fox]

Because he feels he didn't want to defend himself against the wolves.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly. Because wolves hunt in packs. So there might be 13, 14 wolves and one cat. The cat will just get the out of there. Cats run from dogs. Dogs, right. Like they have a fear of like canines, and I think it's from wolves stealing their food. So, like that's how they hunt cats. The way they hunt them, you have to tree them because otherwise you're not going to find. If you find a mountain lion by trim, you have to get the dogs to bark them up a tree. So they run up a tree and they shoot them when they're in a tree. Yeah. And they. It sounds cruel, but listen, they have to do that to manage the populations. If they don't, they start eating dogs. They start. That's what you get in San Francisco, California, still kills mountain lions. They kill as many mountain lions as they would if they gave tags out to people to kill them. Because you have to kill certain numbers of them for depredation. Because they'll start killing livestock, they'll start killing dogs. In the Bay Area, the problem cats that they wound up killing in like San Francisco, half their diet was pets.

[James Fox]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Half their diet. Half their diet was house cats, people's cats, dogs and cats. That's half their diet. Half of their diet. So you manage, you know, 100 plus pound cat and he's running around just eating dogs. You leave your dog in your backyard gone. Happens all the time.

[James Fox]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

It happened to my dog.

[James Fox]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. My dog in Colorado got eaten by a mountain lion. It happens.

[James Fox]

Oh, God, I feel so bad for my little guy.

[Joe Rogan]

It's terrible.

[James Fox]

Not there to protect my little feller. You know, one time I was, I was hiking up this mountain and I had my son with me at the time. And he was in that little pouch, you know, that little pouch put him in the front. Like, he was like, probably like maybe two, two and a half. And I was hiking this mountain pretty daily. It's funny actually, because when I went up there without him, I was like, well, this is why people hike with weights on. This feels amazing. I could run up this mountain. Anyway, I was going to the mountain and I had my dog, my little, little Duke, and I had my, my son walking up this mountain and I come around this, like, go to left hand. It's a pretty exposed. Not too many trees, some bushes. And it's a hot, sunny day, and I see this leg of a deer. Like just fresh kill with blood on the ground. I was like, God damn. What the hell? The hell looked. Wow, that's fresh. I was like, huh? I kind of keep going and come around the corner, and there's a long straightaway. The hill goes up like this. And I see what looks like a big, big, like, greyhound dog. Kind of like light brown, kind of walking kind of back and forth like this with a tail. And I was like, man, who the hell is greyhound is doing out here? Like, what the hell is. That's a mountain lion. I was like, holy shit. And the mountain lion turns around and looked at me, and I had my kid. I was like, shit. I. So I grabbed my dog and I turned around and I started running. And I knew that I shouldn't be running, so I'm running going, I shouldn't be running. I shouldn't be running. I know I should be running, but I wanted to get around the corner and get it out of its light. Sign of light, line of sight. And then I go. I go, well, if he comes up on me, I'm gonna have to throw my dog. I was like. I looked at Duke and I. If it comes down to it, Duke, you're gonna have to take one for the team. It was a horrible choice, but I had my son, of course. But I remember, and I was like, looking at my dog going, oh, man, this is a horrible decision I have to make. But if it comes down to it, I'm gonna have to sacrifice you, buddy. I love you, you know, but it didn't come down to it. But I remember running going, you're an idiot, James. Why are you running? Supposed to be running.

[Joe Rogan]

You can't run. Well, that's the problem with mountain bikers. They get got because when they pass by a cat, it's almost like rolling a ball of yarn past a kitten. They are predators, and they will.

[James Fox]

They'll catch bikes, huh?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah, they get people on bikes. Yeah, that's happened a few times. They get people on bikes. They get joggers, people on bikes. They think you're running away from them.

[James Fox]

Could you imagine what it was like to be running for your life, having something like that chase you?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I can. I mean, it hasn't happened to me, but I've seen them. I've seen three of them in my lifetime. Only one of them that scared the shit out of me. I saw one in Colorado. I saw one in Montecito, like the Santa Barbara area. It was small. Those are small ones. They were like 50, 60 pounds. And then I saw one with a buddy of mine, my friend Colton and I, we spotted one under a tree that was 30 yards away. We were in a truck and it made me my pants.

[James Fox]

Wow. It was big.

[Joe Rogan]

This one was really big. This was a mature male with a big pumpkin head and huge forearms like a fucking bodybuilder. It was freaky. It was freaky to see because, you know, it was. First of all, it was dusk, so the. The sun was going down. And the lights of the truck, even though it wasn't quite dark yet, the lights of the truck were making his eyes glow.

[James Fox]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

And you can see him with the naked eye. But then I put my binoculars on, and so I've got these 10 power binoculars and I'm zoomed in on this thing's face. I'm like, holy.

[James Fox]

Looks like he belongs in Africa.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he belonged right where he was and we didn't belong there.

[James Fox]

Let me tell you a really cool story. That's a ufo. The best UFO picture I think is ever taken.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you have it? Can I look at it?

[James Fox]

Yes. No, no, no. We're gonna look for it. Okay, so can you find the program trailer on. On here at all or.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, for sure.

[James Fox]

All right. Find the program trailer. I'm gonna tell you about this.

[Joe Rogan]

Is this the trailer? Yeah. Let's just watch the trailer. Let's watch. Exposing a secret government program investigating UFOs.

[James Fox]

That story was kind of a catalyst for a lot of things that have happened since members of Congress started to.

[Joe Rogan]

Ask questions, instruments report. There is something there.

[James Fox]

There are flight characteristics that we can't explain.

[Joe Rogan]

UAPs are unexplained.

[James Fox]

It's true. They need to be investigated. Here we are having a hearing where just a few years ago, we didn't even notice that these things were real. Do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs?

[Joe Rogan]

Absolutely. Based on interviewing over 40 witnesses over.

[James Fox]

Four years, you're telling me people have come forward claiming firsthand knowledge of craft of non human origin?

[Joe Rogan]

That's correct.

[James Fox]

We have sources who have asserted not only that there have been crashes.

[Joe Rogan]

But there have been crash. Crash retrievals.

[James Fox]

Do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft?

[Joe Rogan]

Biologics came with some of these recoveries, yeah.

[James Fox]

Were they human or non human?

[Joe Rogan]

Non human. I'm sitting here today because the American.

[James Fox]

People are being lied to. We are the American government and we are open and we're going to be open about this. What has been revealed nine years human intelligence exists. Non human intelligence has been interacting with.

[Joe Rogan]

Humanity is only part of the story. The pressure's on. The Pentagon, the CIA are going to have to answer the mail. Some are risking everything.

[James Fox]

Have you had incidences that have caused you to be in fear for your life? Yes, personally.

[Joe Rogan]

To uncover the rest.

[James Fox]

What is being done to verify the assertion that the US Government has spaceships of non human intelligence in their possession?

[Joe Rogan]

That kind of revelation unearth people's beliefs. I would go to jail to say things that I've been exposed to in the program, bro. Is that Mick Jagger? Was that other guy Mick Jagger?

[James Fox]

Isn't he amazing? That's Hal put off.

[Joe Rogan]

Hal put off.

[James Fox]

Oh, yeah, I know. Doesn't look like Mick Jagger.

[Joe Rogan]

That's not Mick jagger.

[James Fox]

That's Gary McKinnon. He's the biggest computer hacker in history.

[Joe Rogan]

Let me see what he looks like.

[James Fox]

He almost went to jail for life because he was like, I'm going to find out what the government knows about UFOs. So he hacked into the systems NSA, CIA, DIA.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, where is he?

[James Fox]

Yeah. Oh, you want to see that really cool picture.

[Joe Rogan]

The foot. No, in the. The film.

[James Fox]

Oh, yeah, yeah. You gotta go towards the end. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

No, he totally looks, like.

[James Fox]

Really funny you should say that, because.

[Joe Rogan]

I totally thought I saw it.

[James Fox]

And I'm like, wait a minute. That does look like a rock star. He is a rock star in the UFO community. It's coming up. You'll have to. You'll have to pause it quickly when it. When it hits. But Gary McKinnon took it upon himself, a computer hacker, to find out if the government had proof of alien visitation. And he spent a couple years hacking systems, and he found. And he got pay dirt.

[Joe Rogan]

There he is.

[James Fox]

That was it, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

That's Mick Jagger.

[James Fox]

Doesn't it look like Mick.

[Joe Rogan]

It does look like Mick Jagger's. In the UFOs. You should just like, only show that clip. You know, like they do in horror movies, where the mask is not that good. It's real quick. Yeah, but.

[James Fox]

So. Well, I was gonna tell you there's a photograph of a jet circulating. Can I. Can I go into a little bit of detail? Because everyone's always worried about, like, where's the good evidence? Where's the good photograph?

[Joe Rogan]

Show me that photograph again.

[James Fox]

So it's. Yeah, there we go.

[Joe Rogan]

This was a lost photograph that was recovered, correct?

[James Fox]

Yeah, yeah. You know about this?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I know about this.

[James Fox]

Okay, so I heard about this in the late 90s.

[Joe Rogan]

Tell everybody about it.

[James Fox]

Okay, so there was a guy, Nick Pope, who investigated part of the UFO desk at the Ministry of Defense of England in the late 90s, mid to late 90s, maybe in as late as early 2000s. But in any case, and I was in vet, I was interviewing him for a number of my films. I did a film called out of the Blue. I know what I saw before I did the phenomenon. And I, I asked him like, hey man, you were part of the UFO desk at the mod. What was the best case you ever saw? And he goes, oh man, 1990. He didn't give me this the town, it was Calvin. But he said, Scotland. There were two poachers, they called them hikers, but they were actually poaching. And that's what made me think about this when we talk about animals earlier. And he said it was late in the afternoon, they were in a place I now know, it's called Calvine. And they came upon in this relatively remote area, I know because I hiked out to the exact spot and it's in the movie, but. And they came upon this diamond shaped or disc shaped object that was quite large that was hovering silently really close, I mean, close. And they were scared to death. And they were kind of hiding out underneath this tree and they're looking at this thing. What the are we looking at? And they're just looking at this thing as it's silently hovering. Remember, this is 1990, okay? And one of them had a camera. And just as he was considering taking his camera out, a military jet came in. Turns out it was one of those Harrier jet, they think it was a Harrier jet. And it came out into the scene and it flew all the way around the disc. And as it did so, the guy mustered up the courage, came out from under the tree, and he snapped five or six photographs of this object suspended in the air. And it went. So the disc is here and the plane is flying around as click, click, click, click, click, click, click. And the reason why I know this is because the individual who kept one of the prints. Thank you very much, Craig Lindsay, RAF press officer. And thank you, David Clark, for uncovering this because it's the most amazing picture ever. And the two hotel workers in just outside the town of Calvine, Scotland, came back and they were like telling their co workers, oh my God, we encountered this thing. We don't know what was. So they go to the local newspaper and they were like, hey man, we just filmed something in the sky. We got six prints of it. It was 35 millimeter film footage, right? And they're going to go public with their story. Two witnesses, broad daylight, a ufo, points of reference with a military jet flying around. Five or six prints. That's pretty solid evidence, right? So the local newspaper was like, they're about to go public with it. Print, print the story. And they were like, well, we need a statement from the raf. So they contact the press officer, Craig Lindsay, and they were like, hey, what do you make of this UFO these guys took? And the guy Craig Lindsay goes, I don't know what you're talking about. I, I haven't seen the picture. You haven't seen it? Well, let me send you a print. This is the new. The newspaper sends him a print, Big, big print like this, the one you see today. And he's like, holy shit, the hell is this? He's RAF press officer Craig Lindsay. And he's. So he, he starts getting in touch with the mod and he goes out and he investigate this, Go talk to the witness, talk to the witnesses. And they were telling him. And he goes, well, they told him what happened. And he goes, well, what kind of noise did it make? And they said it didn't make any noise. No. He goes, no noise, that's impossible. You know, an object that can hover like that in the sky for that period of time, we're talking 34 years ago, didn't make any noise. And the witness said no. So he was like, holy sh, this is crazy. So he takes a color xeroxing machine and he sends it to the MOD in London and he says, hey, there's a case that you might want to check, you know, you might want to look into. And here's a Xerox, which is really crappy. It's just a, it's just a scanned Xerox, like a fax machine. Over to mod, he said he went from the office where the Xerox machine was, and before he can get back to his office, his phone's ringing off the hook. MOD and the MOD basically stepped in, took over the investigation. They said, you can step down to Craig Lindsay. He steps down, he keeps the print, right? He steps down, they take over, witnesses gone, five or six prints gone, story killed, right? So 30. And we rumored about it because Nick Pope had talked about this case in a book he wrote called Open Skies, Closed Minds. And then I talked to him about it in late 90s. Then I talked to him about it again in the early 2000s and I was like, Nick, especially in 2007, I was like, Tell me about this photograph. And he's like, oh, it was incredible. We had a big poster of it on the wall, the mod. And I was like, well, where is it? He goes, well, I don't know, I stepped down, I'm no longer at the UFO desk. And I said, well, they didn't just throw that away. Why don't you get in touch with the people that were there and find out? He's like, oh, you know, James, I can't just make those inquiries. We killed the story. It was like, you know, so I was incredibly frustrated. So discreetly, for over a 20 year period, I was making inquiries because I don't like letting things go right. It was like, this picture exists and bloody hell, let's get this one out there. But the story went dark. So David Clark found Craig Lindsay. And the way he found Craig Lindsay, the guy that kept one of the prints, is that he got a declassified government document out of the MOD's office that had redactions on it. And one of the things it said was it was 1990 and they said, RAF Press Officer in Scotland blacked out, you know, said that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, huh? Who was the RAF press officer in 1990 in Scotland? Craig Lindsay. Boom. Contacts Craig Lindsay. They started communication going. And then after, like, so much for redaction. Yeah, so much for reactions, right? And so this whole dialogue starts going, there's, you know, developing a. And. And then he goes, well, gosh, I might, I guess I might have one. It turns out he ended up keeping one of those prints, which he had. And that story broke probably two years ago. David Clark, again, I can't thank you enough. You deserve accolades for this. And so I flew to England, I met with David Clark and his crew, the people that did the analysis work. Then I went up to Scotland, I met with Craig Lindsay. The RF press officer gave me the first and only on camera interview about it. What astonished him about it, the analysis work they did on it, what the witnesses said. But we didn't have the witnesses, the people that took the photograph, we didn't have them. But I was going to report on this anyway just because, wow, this is the picture that we've all been waiting for. This picture is phenomenal. But if you don't have providence and you don't have the background story on it, it could be AI. It could be right. It could be a hoax. Some people call it a reflection. Not a reflection, not a hoax. So I'm ending production of the program, and I get a text from David Clark, and he goes, something big's about to happen. And I said, what? He goes, just sit tight. I can't go public right now, but something big's gonna happen. There's a new development, and this is just.

[Joe Rogan]

He teases.

[James Fox]

Well, I'm coming out with that, I promise.

[Joe Rogan]

But he teased you?

[James Fox]

He did tease me. He did tease me. But I was like, well, I'm almost done with the movie, and if this is something I conclude in the movie about the case, please let me know. So, long story short, this guy, Richard Greaves, who was one of the hotel cooks, worked in the kitchen with the photographers, with the two witnesses that took the photograph. And Richard Greaves came forward on print. But I contacted David Clark. I was like, hey, can this. Can I. Can you get me an interview with this guy? So he kept putting it off, putting it off, putting it off. And then finally, I was like, I didn't want to be. I wanted to be persistent, but I didn't want to annoy the guy to the point where he's gonna like, hey, you know what? Fuck you. Like, right? You're being annoying. You know? But I got it right up to that point, right when I was like. I was rapping the movie, the movie's done, and I want to get this movie out. All the people that participated wanted it out. And then I finally sent him one final text, and I was like, look, I'm really sorry to pester you, and I know you're probably really busy, and I really appreciate the fact that you even said that you'll meet with me, but that you'll give me an interview. And then probably about 10:00 that night, I'm in the edit room buttoning the film up, and all of a sudden I get a phone call. And he's like, I've just come out the pub and I'm ready to go. I was like, okay, grab a camera, roll it. Let's record this. And he. He reveals that he knew the witnesses. He worked with them in the kitchen. He gave all the specifics. He provided their names. And then he said that two or three nights after. Two or three nights, four nights after they took that photograph, they were all on a cigarette break at the hotel. Early evening, pissing rain. He said a car rolled up. There were three guys in it, a driver and two men in suits in the back. They roll up, they come out, they say, cigarette breaks over. They pull the two witnesses aside and they grill him. And you got to hear it directly from the horse mouth Richard Greaves said that when they were. All the people that were not involved with the incident were told go back inside the hotel, which they did. But they looked through the window and they saw in the pissing rain. He said they were out there for 10 or 15 minutes in the pissing rain. And that these guys, they came back inside and they were white. As he said he's. He. He literally goes, they came back inside, they were white as a fucking ghost. Which we all get a good laugh out of. And then they started drinking heavily. And within a couple of weeks they vanished without a trace. And they've been gone ever since. So we report on this and. Yeah, that's a replic. That's a replica. It's way too clear. That's a replica from Nick Pope that he did it for some series. Talking about it. And that was before the real photograph was found. And print.

[Joe Rogan]

Let's see the real photograph.

[James Fox]

Yeah, show the real photograph again. I got it in. There it is. Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. So what was he doing? Show the fake one one more time.

[James Fox]

Yeah, that's what. It's a recreation before it leaked out.

[Joe Rogan]

So was he just recreating what he remembered?

[James Fox]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Let me see the real one again.

[James Fox]

It's pretty damn good, isn't it? That he remembered.

[Joe Rogan]

Not bad.

[James Fox]

Not bad.

[Joe Rogan]

Missed the barbed wire fence. But not mad that put in a bunch of background.

[James Fox]

I went to the exact location that.

[Joe Rogan]

He put in there. Put in beautiful hills.

[James Fox]

I know. And. And that fence is still there.

[Joe Rogan]

There was a go back.

[James Fox]

Yeah, that fence is still there. I took an actual. I took a model.

[Joe Rogan]

So what is that jet in the background?

[James Fox]

A Harrier jet is what I'm told. They're 99% sure.

[Joe Rogan]

And was that Harrier jet trying to figure out what this was?

[James Fox]

Well, like I said in the other prints, according to Craig Lindsay, the RAF press officer, he said the other six prints or five prints had that Harrier jet in a different position. So he said it was as if the Harrier jet flew around checking that out.

[Joe Rogan]

Now where are those other prints?

[James Fox]

We have other mod just. They're gone. They killed the story. I mean, the guy at the MOD worked there, Nick Pope told me that they did everything they could to squash.

[Joe Rogan]

It because don't you think they probably have it filed away somewhere?

[James Fox]

Of course they do. Of course they didn't throw those pictures away.

[Joe Rogan]

Can you zoom in on this, Jamie, please?

[James Fox]

Yeah. That's a really crap copy. You're looking at a really bad print. I've got a much better. I'VE got a much better version of it.

[Joe Rogan]

You got it on your phone?

[James Fox]

Yeah, I do.

[Joe Rogan]

Text it to a home me. This. This image is. It's weird.

[James Fox]

Yeah, it's a.

[Joe Rogan]

Because it's. It's hard to see what you're looking at.

[James Fox]

You know, It's. Yeah. Well, let me show you a much better copy of it. Hang on. Let me just scroll up here. Because I've got a really good. I got the original print of this copy, but, you know, people talk about, you know, the more compelling data and the lengths. So this is. This is the photograph that I took at the site. You can get an idea of that.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[James Fox]

See how. Right. How similar? Right?

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly the same.

[James Fox]

Yep. And then here is. Here's the. Here's the print. And I could take a. I could text that to you guys if you want.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, text that to me. I'll text it.

[James Fox]

I'll text it to you guys.

[Joe Rogan]

Send both of them. This is. It's very interesting.

[James Fox]

Very interesting case. I mean, it's. Again, I think it's one of the best photographic cases because you're not dealing with just a ufo. You've got a military jet in the background. And if you have a date in a location, guess what? That pilot's still out there. That pilot can probably got it on radar and probably got gun cam for.

[Joe Rogan]

If he's still alive.

[James Fox]

If. Well, he would have been probably young, right? Pilots are young.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure.

[James Fox]

He would have been in his 30s or maybe. Maybe early 40s. And that was 34 years ago. So chances are he's still alive. They're pretty fit, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, maybe he's in the 70s.

[James Fox]

Okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna text this to you right now. Here we go. Boom. You should have that. Did I get you all. Did I get all of them to you? And here is a picture of Craig. Lindsay, this is great. You're gonna love this. Okay, this is. This is the guy that kept it.

[Joe Rogan]

I didn't get it yet.

[James Fox]

You didn't? I wonder if it's because I have my phone on airplane mode.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, take it off airplane mode, bro. I told you, okay.

[James Fox]

Oh, you did?

[Joe Rogan]

I was trying to explain to you.

[James Fox]

Oh, sorry. Okay, it's off now. I'm sorry.

[Joe Rogan]

Otherwise, it won't actually send it.

[James Fox]

Oh, it won't? Okay. All right. Here we go. Here we go. All right.

[Joe Rogan]

Like dealing with my dad.

[James Fox]

I know. I'm so bad. I know. You were telling me how to do it. I was like, I haven't done that before.

[Joe Rogan]

It's Funny people that don't understand how to use their phone.

[James Fox]

Tell me if that goes through.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, I'm waiting on it still.

[James Fox]

Okay, great, great.

[Joe Rogan]

You need me to send it here?

[James Fox]

You do it here. There's that one. And there's. Flipped it left to right on it. But, you know, it just goes to show the lengths that the intel community, the Ministry of defense, the DoD go to hide the more compelling photographic data because it's so easy to complain, like, oh, well, if they were real, there would be good. Well, there are some really good prints.

[Joe Rogan]

You got Joe Exotic in your phone. You guys are looking at other stuff. I found drones that you can. I don't know that they're commercially available.

[James Fox]

Did you get all the ones you wanted?

[Joe Rogan]

But you can have a drone up for 24 at plus that didn't send it to me either.

[James Fox]

Are you serious?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. So weird.

[James Fox]

Am I sending to the wrong telephone number?

[Joe Rogan]

Let me see your number. The number you have.

[James Fox]

Well, I have it. I definitely have it on signal here. You do it here. It. You take over. You drive. Because I'm clearly failing at this one.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm just gonna check to see what. What I sent it to because I. I changed my number because people get weird.

[James Fox]

Oh, I could totally imagine that was the case.

[Joe Rogan]

Separate. I found some drones that these companies. Companies say that you can take off anywhere. They're showing them taking off from, like.

[James Fox]

Small platforms in the ocean.

[Joe Rogan]

They can stay up in the air for 14 plus hours.

[James Fox]

They're small and they do have propellers. I will say that. Yeah. And like I said, I mean, you know, it's not. The question is, are all these drones, you know, explainable by aliens? And the question. The answer obviously is no. The question is, are any of these bonafide uap? And there's definitely some evidence to suggest that's the case. But again, there's always misidentification of more conventional stuff. Right, right. And there's always. And then there's a stubborn core percent. Like, I give you an example. This is something that I've discussed a little bit recently. Did you find it okay?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[James Fox]

Okay, good. Finally we got that. That Enigma worked out.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's just your 5G is very slow.

[James Fox]

Oh, really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You're using at. What are you using?

[James Fox]

Oh, I'm using Verizon.

[Joe Rogan]

Verizon. I use Verizon.

[James Fox]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's just real slow.

[James Fox]

Do I have.

[Joe Rogan]

Do I have whatchamacallit on Accidentally sent myself these other ones of the guy holding it up too.

[James Fox]

Oh, cool. Yeah, that's cool. That's. That's Craig Lindsey.

[Joe Rogan]

So I'll send this to you, Jamie.

[James Fox]

So let me tell you a little, a little story that's pretty cool, which I never thought that this would happen. I. There's a guy, Kirk McConnell, who sent an armed service committee and he participated at the very last minute in my, in my film. He's in the trailer and he, in an official capacity with a high level clearance, he had been investigating UFOs ever since the New York Times article in 2017. So he was behind the scenes. 2017, 2018, tail end of 2017-2018-2019-2020, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24. And then he stepped down and he came through some intel folks. We got in touch and I said, hey man, my film's almost done. If you want, I could squeeze in one final interview. He decided to participate. Up he went, we became friends, we've been talking. And he said, hey, I could probably arrange a meeting because there's some mutual interest in some UFO cases and evidence that I've been going after as a civilian. But he goes, hey, on the inside, if you want, I can hook you up with the Heads of Arrow, the new Heads of Arrow, John Koskalowski and this other guy, Ryan, who was Air Force office Special Investigations. This just a couple weeks ago. So I went to the congressional hearings, which was incredible. And people say, oh, it was a big nothing burger. But you know what? It was very exciting seeing people testify under oath. There's a crash Retrieval Program, seeing an arrear, Admiral Tim Gallaudet saying that they're under the water. I mean, it's pretty fascinating stuff. So I had to apply for a security background on me, which was about 48 hours. And then I got approval for that. And then I showed up at a wing across the street from the Pentagon and I had to go through the metal detector. And then there are these kind of exciting for me because I had never had this kind of experience before. There are these glass tube type things that were lined up like in a row. And I only one person go in at a time. The doors open just like in Star Trek. And you walk in and that door closes, and then the other one opens. You go to the other side. Then I had to get rid of my phone and everything and leave it outside and then go into a skiff, which is a sensitive compartmented information facility. His gifts all super top secret, whatever. And I got to meet with the new head of arrow, John Kosklowski. I was like, I Can't believe I'm in the belly of the beast. This is crazy. How could I? I'm a civilian, I don't belong here. But we started talking just very nonchalantly, you know, I said, hey, you guys gotta throw us a bone. I said, you know, we're not going away, the story is not going away. And I said, and you know what we're ultimately dealing with? I mean, obviously the vast majority of UAP or UFOs can be and have been explained away in down to earth conventional terms. Right. But there's a stubborn core, 15, 20% that really defy conventional explanation. Not because of a lack of data, because they truly can't explain what these things do. And you know, well, you've had many people on these objects exhibit a technology that's just light years advanced from anything that we have. I mean it's, and it's been well documented since the 1940s and possibly some people would say way before that, but modern day UFO wave, no question. So there's two, you know, two stories. One is someone's been in possession of this revolutionary technology for 85 plus years and kept it secret. Or two, we're not alone. Right?

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[James Fox]

NHI. So I said, I said to the gentleman very candidly, you know, we're probably dealing with a small percentage of, of nhi and what's the plan to tell the general public? And this is just a couple weeks ago. And he looked at me and he goes, james, I can't part my hair without approval from the dod and you can quote me on that. And that was him, in my opinion, telling me, hey, this is structured in a way that my hands are tied. I can uncover all the things in the world, but I can't tell the general public or even Congress without the DoD approving it first.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

So that's what's kind of happening right now. And one of the reasons why we were so fortunate to get the number of, I say whistleblowers or potential whistleblowers or people to come forward in the program is because they were super frustrated with the previous head of head of arrow, which is a guy named Sean Kirkpatrick, which basically just kind of blanket, you know, denied pretty much almost, almost everything. And people were extremely disappointed with that.

[Joe Rogan]

But just like blueprint book.

[James Fox]

Yeah, kind of like blue book.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, they've always done that. Right? Yeah, but, but again, it brings us.

[James Fox]

Not everybody's doing it. Not everybody's right.

[Joe Rogan]

There's a bunch of. Well, I think now also with the Internet, there's there's ways to get information out that's much quicker and cleaner, no question. Then trusting a reporter.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, and then your life's in danger, Porter gets threatened and. Yeah, yeah. Now things just kind of get out.

[James Fox]

So. So. Well, I've thought about this. Like, you know, I'm going back to Brazil and I thought, you know, I'm obviously going after, you know, additional eyewitness test. I'm going after the photographic stuff. And those of you out there that are, like, tired of hearing about it, Well, I spent 20 plus years in search of the photograph that I featured just now. That one with the background story on it. Providence, that sort of thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Jamie, go look at the one that I sent you. It's a better version of it.

[James Fox]

Yeah. And so I thought just because, you know, you can't, after a year or two, haven't successfully obtained stuff.

[Joe Rogan]

So this is a better version.

[James Fox]

Yeah, it's a better version that you can see the granular of the film footage.

[Joe Rogan]

Weird. It almost looks like there's something in the back.

[James Fox]

It does look a little bit like.

[Joe Rogan]

That propeller or something, like a Jetsons type thing.

[James Fox]

But.

[Joe Rogan]

But let's just say that thing was silent.

[James Fox]

Supposedly silent. According to the witnesses, that didn't make any sound. It hovered there for an extended period of time. And when it took off, it took off straight, vertical, like this, straight up, fast. It started going fast, faster, faster, faster. And then was gone. Yep, that was. That was Craig Leslie who interviewed the witnesses who told me that. And it's so weird, though. According to Richard Greaves in Scotland, the Americans got involved.

[Joe Rogan]

Of course, we get involved in everything.

[James Fox]

Yep. They showed up and they intimidated the shit out of the witnesses. And I know people can criticize me for reporting on these alleged men in black, but it's not me saying it. It's the witnesses that are saying it. And I did it full bore for the first time, full bore for the first time in moment of contact. Because I remember hearing these stories for decades and I finally was like, everyone's gonna think I'm crazy if I reported on this, but this lady who was the mother of the two daughters that saw had these visits and the intimidation, and I was like, screw it. I'm just going to report on this and I'll just take the criticism, you know, and then I wasn't expecting this to be the case with this photograph, but lo and behold, it was. But anyway, it's. It's a huge story, in my opinion. They can't put the genie back in the Bottle, it's coming out and it's drip, drip, drip. But I have to remind your audience, people that are feeling impatient, that we've had three open congressional hearings in the last three years. Yeah, we hadn't had any in over 50 years. Prior to that.

[Joe Rogan]

It's definitely. Even though it's still difficult to get information and figure out what's actually going on, there's way more open mainstream discussion of it.

[James Fox]

Way more. And it's frustrating at times. I get it. You know, people are like, oh, well, why all these people? Why can't they just say, why can't David Grusch just tell us, you know? Well, I can remind people that the DoD has stripped David Grusch of his clearances. And why allow him to get into a skiff? This is one of the things that I talked to this guy, Brian Benner appears in the movie at Politico and he goes, if Congress finds out about it, one thing we know on the Hill is that you're gonna find out about it. They can't keep a secret. It's gonna leak. So they've been doing everything they can. I imagine it's a DOD to prevent Grush from going into a skip with members of Congress to release and reveal the classified details necessary to verify his claims.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, have you been keeping this under wreck raps for 60 plus years or whatever they've been doing?

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Would you really tell aoc? Would you really pull her aside and tell her?

[James Fox]

Well, I mean, any members of Congress with the proper clearances and feel like they want to have that information, I.

[Joe Rogan]

Mean, you got nothing wrong with her. I'm not even saying her. I'm just saying pick a young one. You're going to give them all that information?

[James Fox]

Exactly. They don't want them to have that information. There's no question about it.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what I would imagine. That's probably why they won't let Grusch get into a skin.

[James Fox]

So here's another thing I'd like to mention is that David Grusch claims that he gave even a street address to the icig, which is Thomas Manheim, that's the intelligence community Inspector General. So I'm asking members of Congress to support all their efforts. You know Perchette, who's been amazing regardless of what your politics, the guy's phenomenon. He's been really pushing for transparency. Super solid guy. You got Mace, you got Moskowski, what's his from, From Florida, Garcia, from California, aoc, New York, Luna. And then of course you got the Senate Side, you got Rubio, who totally knows where this stuff is, Rounds, Schumer. And if you look at the ndaa, you can see the language in plain sight. I mean, it's phenomenal what's going on. And I think that our elected officials that are really pushing for transparency need to hear from us, need to hear from the citizens and know that we support their efforts and that we have their backs and continuing to push for transparency, to push to find out what the hell is going on. I mean, imagine if it's true. Imagine if we have spaceships and we have biologics bodies, okay? That is not just implications for the United States, that's global implications. I mean, the impacts, the ripple effect that would have around the world for that confirmation to happen.

[Joe Rogan]

No doubt it would be huge. Well, the human race deserves to know. It shouldn't be unelected officials and Defense Department people that know about this stuff. That's crazy.

[James Fox]

I totally agree.

[Joe Rogan]

Unless. Unless this is what? I had a conversation with Ryan Graves yesterday. The way I would argue it, if I was a military person, I would say this is a national security interest and we are trying to back engineer this stuff. We're not successful if China steals our data. If Russia can back Engineer 1 before. If Iran gets one before us, we're. Because these things are insanely sophisticated.

[James Fox]

We would obviously weaponize the technology. That's obvious. It's like 101, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Why would we not.

[James Fox]

The basics. I mean, if you could put a nuke on one of those things, I mean, the exhibited technology that people say, People that have witnessed this stuff say it goes from a standstill to out of sight in the blink of an eye. I mean, these objects, what was it David Fraver said it would?

[Joe Rogan]

It went from space 50,000ft above sea level to sea level in one second.

[James Fox]

In one second?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

That's insane.

[Joe Rogan]

We talked about it yesterday.

[James Fox]

Oh, you did? Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Insane amount of speed and the way Ryan explained it in terms of like the amount of force you would need is equivalent to how many nuclear bombs. Did he say something insane like the entire nuclear arsenal has to be to generate that kind of power. Whatever it is, it's. If these stories are true, it's doing something that we don't understand. So if it's ours, I kind of get why they wouldn't want to spill the beans. My thought once was, what if this is not weaponizable with our current technology? Like what if these things are our drones but they don't know how to put a weapon on it? Yet, like, because whatever you do, I have a problem at a speed.

[James Fox]

I have a problem with that theory. And the problem I have is that the United States government has documented close encounters of a third kind. That's beings connected. That's their own files, right? That's not me saying it.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[James Fox]

So it's not just these objects exhibiting revolutionary technology for at least 80 years. Right. No wings, no tail, no visible means of propulsion, the ability to hover, accelerate out of sight in the blink of an eye, right angle, turns at high speed, no wake, no sonic boom, that kind of stuff. But you also have reports, credible reports of beings connected to some of the craft. And that's documented all around the world. So that eliminates. Right, if it's true.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, yeah, the whole thing. Like, just because something's written down somewhere doesn't mean that someone didn't write it down as a psyop. Someone didn't write it down. To discredit other people with a ridiculous story. One way to discredit a credible story is to attach it to a bunch of ridiculous stories, right? So if I was gonna hide some sort of technology, one thing I would do is connect it to a bunch of kooky stuff, bunch of psychic stuff and remote viewing. Just a bunch of things that people, like, very easily dismiss. UFO abductions, UFO encounters, encounters with an actual being. Right? But put a bunch of stuff in there that, like, makes people go, what is this real? And just enough. Just enough so that you can hide the real stuff in there.

[James Fox]

Well, well, I think.

[Joe Rogan]

And again, I'm playing devils.

[James Fox]

Yeah, yeah, no, I totally hear you. And again, I've said this earlier on the show, and I'll say it again, is like, the reason why I believe David Grusch, who testified not just because.

[Joe Rogan]

I believe David, but David doesn't have firsthand experience.

[James Fox]

But the reason. I know, I know, but the reason why I believe him is because it aligns with my research in the field. Remember, I spent over 12 years investigating on and off with my. My buddy Marco Leal in Virginia, Brazil, that UFO crash case, and only found out last minute, the last time I was there, that the Americans were involved. So I was like, oh, my God, the rumors are true. You know, the Americans really are. Do you see? Like, I obviously looked into Roswell for years. I went to Roswell, the 50th anniversary.

[Joe Rogan]

This is how the deal works, bro. You want the aid, we get the UFOs, we give you the aid. But if a crash UFO, you fucking call us. Yeah, stay out of there. Don't be carrying that dude to the hospital. Leave it to us. And then we'll just scoop that up and shut the fuck up. What do you think about that? One of the craziest stories is that there's a building somewhere that's an enormous building that was actually built around the ufo. Around the ufo because the UFO was too big to move. Have you heard this story?

[James Fox]

It was reported on News Nation with.

[Joe Rogan]

Ross Gotta be real.

[James Fox]

And I. Well, Ross Coltheart is a credible, legit.

[Joe Rogan]

He's got an accent.

[James Fox]

He's got a great accent. He's got an Australian, not quite British.

[Joe Rogan]

We believe you, but it's close. You're more credible than a New York accent.

[James Fox]

There's something about a British accent that just adds credibility to anything.

[Joe Rogan]

It was some guy from New York. So we got this car, right, for the.

[James Fox]

Sorry, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Absolutely huge. This spaceship's so big we gotta build a building around it.

[James Fox]

But. But they. They talked about it. Now here's.

[Joe Rogan]

What is this building and where is it supposed to be?

[James Fox]

I don't know.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, you're holding them back.

[James Fox]

No, no, I really don't know. I have a little bit, but I don't have the same connections on that. But. But I'll tell you a case that I do think needs to get looked into.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, you're gonna move us around?

[James Fox]

Yeah, yeah. Because. Well, this is. No, but this is a craft government agent, this guy.

[Joe Rogan]

So trying to.

[James Fox]

So there's a. There's a memo in the program that was through the Dopser process was released. Unfortunately, some of the names are redacted. Christopher Mellon obtained it. It was from correspondence he had with a high level government official back in 2020. It just got approved for release, I don't know, maybe a year ago. It's featured in the doc and in it it has the names of not just the gatekeeper, but other people that names who found the gatekeeper to the crash Retrieval Program program. I'm told that unredacted versions of that have been handed to select members of Congress and people that are investigating in official capacity for the government. But in it, they specifically mention a case, not crash. A landed case that happened in 1953. It came in Arizona. So I made some inquiries with aerospace folks that I've been meeting with quietly. And I'm like, what's this case that you guys keep talking about with the King in Arizona? They're like, oh, it was like they just landed and left. I was like, well, how do you know they. What do you mean landed? And left. And they're like, well, the doors were open and nobody home. And they walked off. I said, you mean somebody just flew this thing down? It landed on the ground in the desert and came in Arizona in 1953. And they left the doors open and left. And they were like, yep, that's pretty much what happened. So I'm.

[Joe Rogan]

So they left the craft there.

[James Fox]

Somebody just. They flew it down and left a craft on the ground. I was told that. And I. I wouldn't be repeating this if I didn't think there was some serious credibility to it, but apparently it was. And.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it. Doesn't that align with how Diana Pass and Gary Nolan have started describing these things as donations?

[James Fox]

Well, the individual that I talked to was so funny because this individual was like, not a scratch. And I go, not a scratch. Not a scratch. Not a scratch. On the. No, it was perfect. Didn't have a scratch. I was like, oh, my gosh. This sounds like somebody who's more than just heard about this. But they. One of the aspects of it didn't have a scratch on it. So I think that's a case that.

[Joe Rogan]

I think that people should definitely firsthand witness that it didn't have a scratch.

[James Fox]

I don't know if it was the way they described the problem.

[Joe Rogan]

The way the problem I have with all this stuff.

[James Fox]

But here's the thing.

[Joe Rogan]

If you were Travis Walton.

[James Fox]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[James Fox]

Love that guy.

[Joe Rogan]

I love that guy, too.

[James Fox]

Fascinating.

[Joe Rogan]

I really enjoyed. There's. We got a bobblehead. That's a Travis Walton bobblehead.

[James Fox]

Oh, no way.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes way. I got it from Travis. It's him staring at the sky.

[James Fox]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

When he was a young man.

[James Fox]

I went to the location.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm interested in that because that's a firsthand witness.

[James Fox]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. That's a guy. He's explaining his bizarre experience. He's told the same story, no question, for whatever, 50, 60 years, whatever the hell it's been. 1975, whatever it was since he got abducted. 50, almost 50 years. So this guy was there. That was his story. I'm interested in that. When I hear a guy told a guy. Guy that this is what happened and this is how he described it. I'm like, super frustrating. So talking to Jay Sands.

[James Fox]

Yes. Firsthand again.

[Joe Rogan]

Firsthand was like, what the.

[James Fox]

Yeah. Face to face. Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Tell me what it was doing, what it looked like.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He thought it was an adolescent, too. He didn't think that it was a full grown one. He thought it was young.

[James Fox]

Well, he's got an illustration of it in the documentary. And I tell you, it's. It's one of the crazy. I remember after Imagine. I know. I was like, if this is true. I was like, damn, this is crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you Masterpace. I seen how that person.

[James Fox]

This is something that we didn't reveal in the documentary was really funny. He thought that this individual was suffering from frostbite or what's that when you get really cold? Hypothermia. Skin had a blue tint to it. So he took his jacket off, and he very insistently put the jacket on this individual because he was thinking, this person's really, really cold. It's been out in the desert, probably had a plane crash or whatever. And so he's putting his jacket. And the person was kind of resistant. But Jason Sen said, I insisted. I took one layer of my jacket and I put around this individual, and that individual left with the jacket on. So we jokingly. I jokingly say, where do you think your jacket is now? He's like, probably out there at Altari or God Only knows.

[Joe Rogan]

Or right here.

[James Fox]

Yeah, yeah. Or. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Or this is the thing that gets me. Logistically.

[James Fox]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. If these things are coming from the ocean, just logistically, you'd have to have a large ship. So we were talking about this with Ryan yesterday, and I was saying, like, if they had a battleship, we'd be able to see that, right? Like 100, he said. So it would have to be a submarine. So I'm like, jesus Christ. What if there really is some sort of a civilization underwater that has existed, coexisted with us forever?

[James Fox]

Did you hear about the testimony by Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet just recently in Congress?

[Joe Rogan]

Is this the one where the thing's moving underwater 500 knots?

[James Fox]

Yes. He's reporting.

[Joe Rogan]

He's explain it to people, what he said.

[James Fox]

I don't have all that. You can look it up. Yeah. What I can remember is basically he's confirming that we have objects that are exhibiting a technology underwater that defies any conventional explanation. Things that are just virtually impossible. Like, so much faster than the fastest submarine or anything like that. Just. And they're really big.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's moving as if there's no resistance underwater. Yeah, it's moving like a fighter jet would in the air. It's moving like that.

[James Fox]

Yeah. They call it transmedium or something. They can do that. But confirmation, I mean, that's. And I actually spoke to. To Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet on a couple of occasions recently, and I thanked him for coming forward to testifying and he said, you know, I felt an obligation to do so because a lot of my men, the pilots were coming forward and I wanted to back them up. And so that's why. That's why he stepped forward and testified.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, if you're. If you're coming here from somewhere else and you wanted to hide in plain sight, you would hide in the ocean. Especially if you have the technology to like, completely negate any of the effects of the. The water and the pressure least explored.

[James Fox]

This place on Earth.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, we can't get to it. We don't have the technology to get. They know we don't. They know. It's really hard to get a submarine out to wherever the they.

[James Fox]

What's his name, went to the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

[Joe Rogan]

Cameron.

[James Fox]

Cameron. By himself. I would never do that.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a wild boy.

[James Fox]

Isn't that like 35,000ft down? How far is it?

[Joe Rogan]

Something bizarre like that. I mean, that's. Those poor.

[James Fox]

Would you go down in a submarine by yourself?

[Joe Rogan]

No, definitely not. Hell, no one like the one those people died in. Yeah, but that was. There's another thing about that case. When the people went down that submarine, apparently, I guess it's the Navy has some sort of very sophisticated underwater audio sensors. And they heard the implosion and they knew about it, like immediately and didn't report on it. Well, I mean, I think the problem with reporting on is that you have to report on your technology now. So I don't even know if this has been confirmed, but this is what I had heard.

[James Fox]

Methods and means or.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's also. It's got to be top secret. It's got to be one of those things where if you're going to reveal that you heard that, you have to have clearance to do it. You probably have to run it up the ladder.

[James Fox]

One of the reasons why we know about overhead satellite imagery of UAP is because of Ratcliffe, who was former head of odni. And he came forward and I remember, it's funny actually, because it was classified and Christopher Mellon participated in this latest production with me because of Ratcliffe revealing it on Fox News. And Ratcliffe basically says, yeah, we have overhead collection satellite data of UAP that are pretty fucking far out. And that, yeah, that. That happens. So they're talking about this. But getting back to your point, because I know you said you were frustrated, you're like, oh, yeah, it's just another anecdotal piece of evidence, a piece of testimony, third party, not firsthand.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm not saying I'm Frustrated.

[James Fox]

No, no, no, no. What I'm saying is I totally agree with you. I'm frustrated. As somebody who's been chasing this story for 30 years, I too want access to the better, more compelling data. That's why I chased after that photograph I just shared with you earlier on for as long as I did. Because I hear about something, I go after it. But I want to remind your audience, you can't go after something without knowing that it exists. So you get the leads, you find, you start. We're learning more about the programs. We're learning how these programs are hidden. These WOOS apps, they're waived unacknowledged special access programs probably hidden somewhere in the D. I know it sounds crazy, but at least guiding, giving some guidance to where these things and how these things are hidden, where they might be found. We reveal there's a gentleman in the film called Navy X and people are like, ah, it's just another person testifying anonymously. Well, yes, true, but he gives us specifics on telling members of Congress where to look, look to find specifics. J Wix, what is it? And this is where to find the more compelling data. I'm going to read this because it's important that people know that he's saying, look, I've seen it and this is where it is. It's called the official UAP data is kept either in sipper secret Internet protocol router network or jwick's Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communication System that's used by the DOD and only available in a skiff. And a skiff is a Sensitive Compartmented information facility. So is it frustrating to hear that and people criticize, oh, it's just another person. But he's saying, I've seen it, it's phenomenal. He gives descriptions of some of the stuff he saw and he's telling members of Congress if you have the clearances, this is where it's being kept. So those are very good specifics. And again, I remind you guys, like, okay, just be patient. This is not a hundred yard dash. We're running a marathon right now. We are trying to get back to.

[Joe Rogan]

What I was talking about earlier. Logistically. Logistically, if you're letting something go from the ocean.

[James Fox]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

If you're flying it out of the ocean, logistically, you would have to have some sort of a large craft out there that's going to house these things or it's going to launch from. Yeah, if it is actually coming from the ocean.

[James Fox]

Oh, you see the drones you're talking about right now?

[Joe Rogan]

Right, yes. So either they're ours and if there are hours, how do they hide the fact there's a battleship out there? Is that possible? And if, if it's from a submarine, how do they develop a submarine that can launch 50 car sized or SUV sized drones from.

[James Fox]

Yeah, that's one of the things that Christopher Mellon said to me this morning. He goes, that's just, that's the one element or aspect that, that really is a head scratcher. Because.

[Joe Rogan]

But this is the question.

[James Fox]

50, 50 of these things coming in off the ocean, that's just confirmed.

[Joe Rogan]

Right? Right.

[James Fox]

No one's in.

[Joe Rogan]

But here's the question.

[James Fox]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Is it possible to classify the location of a US battleship that's capable of having these things so big, how could you, like, how big would it have to be to launch 50 drones?

[James Fox]

God, you're not talking, you're talking. I don't know, man. But that's the question, especially the size they're reporting. They're talking about drones the size of an suv.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[James Fox]

So let's loiter time.

[Joe Rogan]

Let's imagine, let's imagine you. So when you take a ferry, how many cars can a ferry fit on it?

[James Fox]

I take a ferry all the time in Vermont.

[Joe Rogan]

Like a legit one, like a European. 50 cars.

[James Fox]

I put. Well, the one that's medium legit, I put 25, 30, maybe 40. 25.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[James Fox]

Yeah. So could you, more than you think.

[Joe Rogan]

Couldn'T you do that with drones? And couldn't you have something that's a little larger than the average ferry so you wouldn't need a battleship?

[James Fox]

Why would they do that? Why would they do that in residential areas? Why would they have everybody scratching their heads, all these press conferences? You're talking about the head of the gang of eight. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

But if they're, if they need to control those guys, if they are really looking for a nuke. Okay, let's imagine that this story about, you know, a Ukrainian nuke from the time when they, they disarmed them, there's one that's unaccounted for. This is one of those stories that's been on the Internet. I don't know if it's true that it's unaccounted for and that they think it's headed to the United States. If you were trying to find that.

[James Fox]

Thing, like a dirty bomb.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Or like just a regular nuke that if you're looking for gamma rays like that, you could devise a drone that could search for that and you'd fly it over an area and you Wouldn't care whether people freaked out. Because it's more important to find this goddamn thing. Right. So if you have this technology that some skunk works, you can't do it from space. No, I don't think so. I think you have to be there.

[James Fox]

Certain proximity within to pick up whatever. Did you bring this up with Ryan Graves?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[James Fox]

What did he say?

[Joe Rogan]

You mean he doesn't know either? He doesn't think so. Everybody that I trust, that's the issue.

[James Fox]

People in the FBI, people that I communicate with, often I'm like, what is going on?

[Joe Rogan]

It almost seems too sexy that the United States has that kind of ability and they're just flying these things around and that they're doing it for that specific reason, to find a nuke. It's like that we have this kind of technology that we didn't. None of us are aware of that we have these. These drones that can shut off when you come close to them. The lights shut off, they disappear. They.

[James Fox]

Yeah, they go dark.

[Joe Rogan]

Avoid tracking. The RF signal doesn't show up. They. They're cool. They're somewhat. They have some sort of cooling mechanism in them, so it's difficult to see with infrared. I don't understand any of that. He was saying, that's above what we can do right now. And he's saying they. But they're not moving in a way necessarily. That's not possible with drone technology that is mainstream. But there's some aspects of the way they move and what they're doing that doesn't lead them to believe that this is current, state of the art technology.

[James Fox]

Yeah, Even I had some. Until people tell me, like, even if it's conventional, it's highly advanced. Conventional.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. But let's look at China. Like, China has highly advanced drones. Yeah. We were talking about this as well, that the bottleneck in America was the faa. The FAA put a lot of restrictions on the manufacture of drones and how you can do them, what you can do. China doesn't have any of that. So they're full steam ahead with innovation. If you look at what drone manufacturers in the United States have been able to do, and then imagine untethered, if they weren't fucked over by all these regulations that got in the way of innovation. Obviously you have to have one. Because if you have some commercial drone that someone can buy that can move 500 miles an hour and fly through the air and stay up there for six hours at a time and film video of everything and anything. Well. And you can't control it. You can't block the radar screen. You can't find it with infrared. That's pretty nuts. So I would imagine that would not be a thing that they would want in the hands of the average American person.

[James Fox]

But why did it just start happening fairly recently when I say this?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I'm saying if it's Chinese. If it's Chinese, if they. If they're unburdened by our regulations and that not only do they have the help of the government, they have financing behind them. They have an imperative. They're told what to do.

[James Fox]

They're flying it over Langley. They're flying it over.

[Joe Rogan]

Wouldn't you do that just to fuck with these people?

[James Fox]

What's the golf course that Trump has?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, his golf course. Yeah.

[James Fox]

What's that called?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know.

[James Fox]

Westminster or something like that. They're flying over that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

The President elect.

[Joe Rogan]

So it's Langley Air Force Base did experience incursions of unauthorized unmanned aerial systems in last year, December 2023, says Sabrina Singh, Pentagon spokeswoman. The number of those UAS incursions did fluctuate, but they didn't appear to exhibit any hostile intent. It's something that we have kept our eye on. Well, thank God you're keeping your eye on it.

[James Fox]

Yeah. We have no idea what they are, but they. They're fine. Nothing to worry about.

[Joe Rogan]

Yesterday.

[James Fox]

That's been happened. This is the third year in a.

[Joe Rogan]

Row this has been happening right around. Around Christmas time.

[James Fox]

Well, that's one of the reasons. One of the reasons why I wanted you guys to hear that account by the guy at Vandenberg Air Force Base. This is not an anonymous reporting. The guy's giving his name.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[James Fox]

And he's talking about objects that are the size of a football field.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

Hovering over a silo launch control area.

[Joe Rogan]

That's also the Phoenix Lights. They described them as size of a football field or larger.

[James Fox]

Oh, yeah, I interviewed a guy. There was a case that happened in. Right here in Texas. Stephen Vic, Ricky Sorrel is one of the best witnesses. I love the guy. He was a hunter. And he's like. He's like, james, he's like, you could have landed an airplane on this. I said, you gotta be kidding me. He goes, no, man, I goes, I stood under this thing. He goes, it was so big. I was standing under it. And he had his rifle and he's standing under it and he's looking up and he's looking to the left. He's looking to the left. Right back, forward. Can't see the edge of it in any direction. So he grabs his hunting rifle. Cause he was, he was hunting, dear. This is 2008.

[Joe Rogan]

Grabs his Honey, shot it.

[James Fox]

No. Well, so he holds his honey rifle, his rifle up, and he's looking through the scope and he goes, james, I'm a metal worker. I work with metal. I know what metal looks like. And he's looking through the scope and he goes, man, there's no rivets, there's no seams, there's no weld marks. He's like, there are these on the belly of it. There were these reverse like recessed cones. It's like bigger and then they got smaller as it went up in the belly of the crab. He's looking up at it and his fingers on the trigger and he's like, man, I wonder, wasn't that hard. I go, I wonder what happened if I just pulled the trigger here. And I bet it would ricochet off or hit the belly or something. So he's looking at it and he's just about to pull the trigger to check it out and he goes, maybe this isn't such a good idea. I interviewed him in 2008 when this was going down. And then about a year later, I was doing some follow up interviews for a film I did. I know what I saw. And I had this gentleman walk up to me and I was filming in the downtown square in Stephenville, or it might have been Dublin. And this gentleman looks at me and he goes, you Mr. Fox? Yes. And he pulls out a badge and he shows me as his badge and he's like, can I talk to you for a minute? I'm officer so and so. And I was like, jesus Christ, what the hell did I do? And I said, yeah, sure. And we walk off to a cafe and he goes, he's looking at. He had his back. He had his back to the wall in the cafe so he could see everybody coming in. He was really paranoid and he says, you know Ricky Sorrels? I said, yeah. And he goes, that guy's telling the truth. I said, how do you know? He goes, because the whole police department saw it. I can't remember if it was Dublin police department or Stephenville. I think it was Dublin. Steven Police department. He goes, yeah, man, we. He said, we, we were sitting over there, patrol cars, and this object was like a floating department store. I mean, it was absolutely colossus colossal, like a city. Took out my radar gun, pointed at it and it was doing 22 miles an hour. And then he said it drifted off and they One of the officers, I don't remember the name of the gentleman, took his gun, his. Sorry, his dash cam, and he flipped it up and he filmed it. And apparently one of the biggest mistakes this individual made, this police officer made, was that he didn't make a copy of it because the local air force base requested that film footage and got it. And so I've been telling people to go after that stuff exists. But my point is, this object was so big, people claim the witnesses, the first hand witnesses, that you had landed an airplane on it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

I mean, what is, what is that?

[Joe Rogan]

What happens if you see that? That's the thing. Like, if you see that. Do you even tell people you sound like a kook?

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like if I saw it, if I was outside in the desert.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I was just chilling and something so big that I couldn't see the edges of flew overhead. I don't know what I'd say.

[James Fox]

He said, when it took off, it was like this. He goes, james. And Ricky didn't want to give me an on camera interview for the longest time. He said, I'm not coming forward. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going public. I worked on him for eight months. Finally I got the green light. I flew back out to Texas, got him on camera, put him in the movie. But he said when it took off, it went from this a complete standstill. And it went straight up, like a slight angle, but straight up and gone. He goes, james, I said, describe the acceleration. He goes, hell, I'll tell you, the best way I can describe is that had I blinked, I would have, I would have missed it. That's how fast it took off. So it went from here like that. He had, he had helicopters hovering over his. I know this sounds crazy. People are gonna be like, oh, this big. You know. But he had helicopters flying over his property for a while. Right around the time that I was trying to get him to go on camera. They came out in his underwear and his shotgun late at night with his helicopter spotlighting him up. And he ended up calling the local air force base and said, stop flying over my house at night. And they said, we suggest you stop talking about what you saw. And so he was kind of spooked. And about eight months later, he finally, he finally decided that he was going to go public with the story. But, you know, everything to lose, nothing to gain. You get this countless reports of these cases, you know, and they're around the world, right. It's not just the United States. I've demonstrated that time and time again.

[Joe Rogan]

But there's more of them in the United States than anywhere else. Right.

[James Fox]

Well, I mean, one of my favorite cases, Ruiz, Zimbabwe. That's an amazing case.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right. But there's more sightings in the United States than anywhere else. Right.

[James Fox]

There seems to be an attraction, almost like a moth to a flame with, with nukes, somehow they're interested in our new nuclear capabilities. And I remember interviewing Robert Salas, who was a launch control officer, who described this whole event at Maelstrom Air Force base in the 60s where these UFOs were witness on the base and then all their Minuteman missiles started getting shut down. And I remember saying to him, like, well what, what, what's, what's your take on that? Like what kind of. You know, he goes, and I could realize, I realized why this individual was a launch control officer because he was so measured and so calm and so cool. And he goes, well, James, the message I got was kind of clear. It's almost like taking matches out of the hands of a baby. About the nukes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Fox]

So, you know, with the phenomenon, you look at what they do, right? And then that says some things. They've done some pretty brazen events right. Over the around over the decades. But you also look at what they don't do. Because if the phenomenon wanted to end this like, you know, secrecy once and for all, all they'd have to do is hover over the Macy's Day parade or the next big super bowl and it's game over. They don't do that. They've done some pretty brazen things, right? I mean, case in point, 3-13-97 over the state of Arizona, including the governor, Fife Simon, witnessed that massive. There were a number of UFOs witnessed, but that the main one, you know, was this big boomerang shaped craft. And even the governor said it must have been at least a mile across from wing dip to wings tip that floated. And I actually interviewed people that worked at Luke Air Force Base at the time, and they said that they scrambled jets to intercept this thing. And I interviewed a number of people that saw that craft, I mean that stood on their, that light down in their lawns and watched it float over the top of them. And apparently according to this individual that I met in the, in the late 90s at Luke Air Force Base, they scrambled a military jet to intercept this thing. He came upon it could have landed on the damn thing, it was so bad big. And it went from moving very, very slowly to accelerating like warp drive Boom. Just gone. When the jet came back to the base, Luke Air Force Base, they had to carry him out of the. The plane, I'm told, because he was so shaken by what he saw.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I could imagine you wouldn't handle that.

[James Fox]

Well, can you imagine having to keep that secret? No, imagine, like, could you imagine taking.

[Joe Rogan]

The governor would have to lie. Right. The governor had to, like, stand up with a rope, a guy in a.

[James Fox]

Dressed in an alien suit.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Fox]

And I hammered him on that one.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, then afterwards, once he left office, then he talked about it.

[James Fox]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

He talked about seeing it.

[James Fox]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, I got why he had to do that, though.

[James Fox]

I, I got. Oh, well. So I interviewed. I was the one that got him to break his silence after 10 years. And he told me, and I don't necessarily know that I fully believe it, but he told. Because initially, when it happened in March and that, remember, the vast majority of people were out under the night sky to get a glimpse of the hell Bob, come comment. So it was witnessed all the way across the state of Arizona and even in Nevada, Southern Nevada. And yeah, there he is. Fife told me that it was growing hysteria, but initially he had set out and he said, we're going to find out. I'm contacting Luke Air Force Base, reached out to the Pentagon and all these various services, and we're going to. We're going to get to the bottom of it. And then I don't know how much longer it was. Was it later that day or was it the next day? He held an unscheduled press conference and that's when he had his aides dressed up in an alien suit and made a mockery of it all. And I can assure you, pissed the hell off his constituents and the witnesses all across the state of Arizona, they were furious. And I confronted him on that 10 years after the fact, because I was pissed off. I was investigating that case when it happened in the 90s, and I interviewed a lot of really good witnesses, really good witnesses. And he said the reason why he did it was because of growing hysteria, that he wanted to quiet, calm down the. The hysteria. But did he get a phone call just saying, hey, kill this story. I lean in that direction. But he's never. Even when we're having cocktails together, he's never confessed that that happened. But it was awfully suspicious the way it all went down.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a little weird, especially considering he actually saw it.

[James Fox]

That could have been a turning point in the UFO phenomenon reporting, you know, era. Right. Like suddenly you get this massive sighting which would happen today, we would have been covered by, you know, everybody's phones and, or whatever. But, but if the governor had come forward and said, yeah, we need to figure out what that thing is. I'm a former captain in the Air Force, I'm a pilot and I don't, I saw it. I don't know what the hell that thing was.

[Joe Rogan]

Is there any footage of the actual thing, the, the triangle boomerang?

[James Fox]

There are, there are some footage floating around and I featured some. And I know what I saw. You got an object in the night sky with lights that. And I at the time, in 2009, I did some kind of enhancement. I'm sure the software is a lot better nowadays of. It looks like like a big. I can draw it like a boomerang. Yeah, but more angular. It was like, like this, like this. And my drawing, my drawings are terrible like that.

[Joe Rogan]

Look up at the screen.

[James Fox]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, kind of like that. Yeah, Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

And so that image in the far left, that's, but that's the.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And there was it right there, right?

[James Fox]

Yeah. And here's something that kind of throws off the trail here because. Excuse me, the object came down of the state of Arizona. It went from north to south. Is that legit on the right there? Yeah, I honestly I can't say. I'd have to really do a deep dive into it. But let me tell you what happened because this is brilliant. So what happened was you got this massive object from around 5:30 at night in the southern Nevada and then it drifts down very slowly over, across the entire. From north to south, across the entire state of Arizona. And right around 7:38, 8:30, the Gary, the Barry Goldwater Mountain range, which is the direction it was heading in, the military decides to drop a bunch of flares. And so people were like, oh, there it is. There's some. You know, and they. And a bunch of people filmed the flares. So in my opinion it was a diversionary tactic that was brilliantly done because why the military suddenly decided to drop flares in the shape of. Somewhat of the shape. So I think that some of the footage that you've seen out there is, is military flares. But there's. And there was an effort. I don't know if you want to get into it right now, but there was, there was an effort by the so called M and B, which the mib, these men in black or the whatever unknown government agency they come from to. That took, that took some footage that I was Learning about during my investigations in the 90s, and you're looking at me like I'm crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

No. No.

[James Fox]

So the first time I really heard a really credible report of the MIB and I decided not to report on it was when I was in touch with a woman who was Councilwoman Frances Barwood, who was one of the few officials in Phoenix area that was saying, hey, let's investigate what these people are claiming they have seen. She's not saying aliens have landed. All she's saying is, hey, these people have a right to know what's going on. Let's launch an investigation. She was lambasted over the media, made fun of, ridiculed. But as a result of her inquiry, public inquiry, and putting it out there, one of these individuals reached out to her. And I know this because I know her. Francis Barwin. I heard the whole story. And he was a. He was a Vietnam vet, and he was on the roof of his house with a tripod and a camera, and he was trying to get a glimpse. He was trying to film the Hill Bob comment. And he had walkie talkies. And he was monitoring the truck drivers driving up Interstate 10 from Tucson to Phoenix. And so he's monitoring this and he hears these truckers talking about a massive ufo. And he's like, shit, that's heading right towards my house. Who was like, I'll film it. So he had a camera all ready to go, and the object went right over his house, according to him. And he filmed the whole thing. And he goes, yeah, I filmed the whole thing. It's pretty spectacular. And I know that you're launching an investigation. Frances Barwood, would you like to see it? And she said, yeah. So they made arrangements where he was going to drop it off at her office either later that day or first thing the next morning. Two representatives. And it was July at this point. It was very hot. Two men in dark suits showed up at his house and they said, hey. He was apparently relieved. That's all he wanted. He said they were quite menacing looking. Didn't really say a lot. They said, we're from Francis Barwood's office. We're here to pick up that footage. So he gives them the footage. He said the only question they ask him is, did they make any copies? And he said, no. And so they take the footage off. They go. When he doesn't hear from Frances Barwood, he's like, what the hell? So a couple days go by, I think possibly up to a week. He calls her up and he says, and Frances will Tell you this, she'll. She'll validate what I'm telling you. He says, hey, what'd you think of the footage? She goes, well, what do you mean? When I think of the footage, I never got it. You were gonna drop it off at my office and you didn't show up. He goes, well, I didn't have to. You had two men from your office show up and pick it up. She goes, I didn't send anybody around to your office office. And I know at the time, in the late 90s, I'd heard a couple of stories prior to that. I thought, this is too out there, this is too outlandish. No one's going to believe this. I have no proof of this other than her testimony. Screw it. And I didn't report on it. But hearing those cases over and over and over, it's like, there we go, once again, the so called evidence that could prove or disprove one way or the other that something truly extraordinary took place in the skies over Phoenix back in 1997. Vanished. But there is some that slip between the cracks that's out there. You just have to do due diligence. And I don't have the time to.

[Joe Rogan]

Sift through all of those images that we're looking at. They look too clean.

[James Fox]

Yeah, I don't know what's AI generated.

[Joe Rogan]

Or whatever, but what could have been in a documentary, like a recreation.

[James Fox]

I know what I saw features some of the footage. I covered that case extensively. So if anyone's interested in the Phoenix Lights case, that. But I can tell you how many.

[Joe Rogan]

Sides, how many people saw it?

[James Fox]

Oh, thousand, Thousands. Thousands. I talked to another woman, Stacy Rhodes, and her daughter Emily, and they said they were driving on Interstate 10. And she goes, look, James, I'm gonna tell you how big this thing was. I said, how big? And she goes, first of all, there were people stopped on the freeway, just like stopped as this thing. It was like Close Encounters floating over the. She goes, I could have held up a newspaper like this and looked to the left, looked to the right, looked at that. And she said, I couldn't block this thing out. That's how big it was. And it didn't make a sound. It was gunmetal black. It was witnessed by a lot of people. That's why I say there's some, some events that have happened over the decades that are pretty brazen, and that's one of them. Hudson Valley is pretty brazen as well.

[Joe Rogan]

I just wish I knew if it was true.

[James Fox]

Well, when you get thousands of People seeing the same thing. If you see thousands of people saying the same thing, including the governor.

[Joe Rogan]

I know the governor so invested in it, and you go, what happened?

[James Fox]

The governor? Yeah, the governor.

[Joe Rogan]

Same guy who came out with a guy dressed up like.

[James Fox]

Yeah, I know, but I got him to come clean 10 years later.

[Joe Rogan]

But. So he's already not credible. Well, he already bullshits. He does. He bullshits.

[James Fox]

He definitely, he definitely bullshits.

[Joe Rogan]

So there you go. Yeah, so when someone bullshits about that, they might bullshit about anything, but.

[James Fox]

Well, I. True. Yeah, but I mean, I, Again, I'm.

[Joe Rogan]

Just playing devil's ass.

[James Fox]

No, I hear you, I, I hear, I hear what you're saying and I.

[Joe Rogan]

I, I, he hasn't been in the limelight a while. It's a good thing to talk about now.

[James Fox]

There's no smoke without fire. In terms of eyewitness testimony and radar, some photographic. Not as much as we'd like, that something truly inexplicable is taking place in our aerospace.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, for sure.

[James Fox]

Something that, after careful examination, something that, not because of a lack of data in some instances, but that after careful analysis and research, investigation, that comes out the other end. And some. I can't explain this. This is going to have to be one of those unknowns or falls into that 15% category of cannot provide a terrestrial or conventional explanation for. And those are the cases that I've so desperately have been going after for a long time.

[Joe Rogan]

So is all this disclosure and all those discussions on television now and all these meetings and hearings, does it. So you think we're on an accelerated path? Do you think this is like, this is all good, right?

[James Fox]

I'm convinced of it, yes.

[Joe Rogan]

But do you think that there's a real possibility, like within the next few years that they just completely drop all the bullshit and come clean about this stuff? Or would it take some sort of extraordinary event where they had to admit it, something much bigger than this drone thing?

[James Fox]

Well, in some respects there has been. I remember I interviewed this guy, Nick Pope, at the MOD years ago, and I was like, this is a time when we were pushing for transparency there. France was releasing previously classified documents on UFOs. Les of Nye as they'd say, the MOD followed suit. They were releasing previously classified documents, slowly putting it out there. And at the time it was rather exciting. I just did a big event at the National Press Club with Leslie Kane, and it was like this whole movement, it was like, oh, my God, it's happening. Right? But it kind of petered out a little bit and I Remember asking this guy that used to work the UFO desk at the mod, Nick Pope? And I said, nick, do you anticipate any type of disclosure? This is like 2009 or something. Something 2008, 2009. And he goes, james, no. He goes, it's going to be disclosure with a small D, not a big D. It's going to trickle out slowly, condition people, get people prepared, test the waters. You know, one of the things that we explore in the program, and I'd never done that, is the politics of disclosure. It's a far more complex. Let's just suspend judgment for a moment and assume that it's real. Okay? That there really is an nhi, or non Human Intelligence asset to the phenomenon. Right. Let's just suggest that's real. Now, how do you disclose that to the general public? What about the impacts on organized religion? What about the impacts on financial institutions? What about the fact that we'd have to confess that we don't have full control over this? I mean, those are real considerations. And it's not just the United States, Right. This involves the planet. This involves all the humanity.

[Joe Rogan]

I wanted to ask you about this.

[James Fox]

You see what I'm saying?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Oh, I do. I totally understand.

[James Fox]

More complex than you think.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, I totally get that. How does Russia handle these things? How does China handle these things?

[James Fox]

Well, I. There was a case in China that happened in 1994, right around the time of Rua, Zimbabwe, also in 1994, called Mengjiao Gua. And it happened in the Black Mountains. And it was a landing, alleged contact, close, kind of the third kind. It's funny because it happened right in the same time of Africa. Similar message that was conveyed. I went to China. I met with an active general in uniform, talked openly about the UFO phenomenon. They were pretty open. I went to Russia in the late 90s, and that was right before Putin. It was right around the time when Putin was coming in. And that was a period of openness. And I went to Star City, Russia. I interviewed cosmonaut Pavel Popovich, a number of generals, and they were very open about it. In fact, they said to me at the time, if you're here to discuss whether or not the UFO phenomenon is real, the doors right over there, there. We're here to create an international coalition, an international exchange of information, and to talk about the implications of the phenomenon, which I thought was amazing. This is like 25 years ago, right? So now I don't think things have changed since Putin's been in office. But that was back in the late 90s. I mean, there'd been congressional hearings in Brazil. There's been. There's been an effort. I mean, shit, they had. They had hearings back in 1978 at United nations that Lee Spiegel put on. You know, so there's been an ongoing effort for this stuff to come out. I just think it's different this time. To me, it feels like they're not gonna. There's too much. There's too much momentum behind it at this point. And there's so much legislation that's written, it's too much that's come out, and it's too important. Look, whether you believe it or you don't believe it, if you can just imagine for a moment if it is true and if the US Government does, in fact, have irrefutable evidence that we're not alone in the universe, that's so significant that we all have a right to that information and that we should continue to support this unprecedented push for transparency with our elected officials and get to the fucking bottom of it.

[Joe Rogan]

Everybody agrees, right? Yeah, I think everybody agrees. The general public. No one's gonna disagree with you about that.

[James Fox]

Yeah. And the new administration's coming in. There's, you know, there's Ratcliffe and Rubio. I'm telling you, Rubio knows a lot. I know that.

[Joe Rogan]

How do you know he knows?

[James Fox]

Because I've talked to people that have debriefed him and been in the room with him during the first.

[Joe Rogan]

You haven't talked to him?

[James Fox]

No, I have not. No, I have not. But I talked to people that were in the room when he was being briefed from firsthanders. I'm told that there were, I'm going to say, right around 12 firsthand people that have had behind closed doors meetings, firsthand people that are concerned about their secrecy, concerned about their safety, concerned about the implications of them coming forward and, you know, going. Going public that they're not quite. They don't quite have. This comes from very good source of information that the Witness Protection Program and the legislation that they've created around that is not quite there yet. It's getting closer. They need to continue to work on that.

[Joe Rogan]

You don't mean like Witness Protections Program? Like put them in whistleblowers.

[James Fox]

They have whistleblower protection. I'm so sorry. I meant to say that. Excuse me. Yeah. Whistleblower protection. It's not quite in place. One of the things I really wanted to mention is that there is a gentleman, a young man who's 30, and he feels like he's old. His name is Jesse Michaels, and he's got this new show called American Alchemy. New. It's a couple years old.

[Joe Rogan]

Why does it feel like he's old?

[James Fox]

Cause you know, when you're 30, you feel like you're old. Really? Well, I did when I turned 30, I was like, I'm 30 because just 10 years earlier, I was almost 19. Right. Or 11 years earlier, I was 19.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[James Fox]

You go from a teenager to suddenly you're 30. You always think like, 30. And I was talking to him not too long ago, Jesse, and I said, he's like, yeah, I feel a little old. I was like, dude, you are just getting into your prime, baby. This is rock and roll time. But I really wanted. This is a guy who's young. Julian Doria is also doing some amazing work on this in podcasts, but who's young and is doing a deep dive into the implications and into. He meets with aerospace engineers. The guy's. He's. Jesse, you're a phenomenon. Keep rocking and rolling. I want to tip my hat to you. I don't know if you've seen this guy or not or.

[Joe Rogan]

No, I haven't.

[James Fox]

He's doing deep dives into what's happening.

[Joe Rogan]

Maybe I have.

[James Fox]

He's documented it with these podcasts, and he's doing a fantastic job. And I just got to tip my hat to the guy because he's 10 times smarter than I'll ever be. And he's young, and he's a force to be reckoned with, and he's really doing. He's answering all the questions that you and I are exploring, all these issues that you and I are talking about.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I'm glad there's people out there pushing it, and I'm glad there's guys like Grush that are sticking their neck out and guys like you who are making documentaries about it. The subject is much more open to discussion, like I was saying, amongst serious people.

[James Fox]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Where it didn't used to be before, and now I think with this drone thing. Thing. I think there's so many people are going, okay, okay. Even if there Ares or they're China's or who. What's going on? Why are there so many of them? What are the answers and why can't you tell us? Is it because they're searching for a nuke? Jesus Christ. Maybe you should warn people and get the out of here.

[James Fox]

You know?

[Joe Rogan]

Is that really what's going on? Like, if it's not what is going on and if it's not ours. What are they? And how come you can't track them? How come? Like, what? Kind of very bizarre. It doesn't even make sense.

[James Fox]

It's very.

[Joe Rogan]

It doesn't make sense. When you think of the capabilities of the United States military, it doesn't make any sense. They can't figure out what's going on. I think what Trump said is probably correct, that the government knows. They know what's happening and they don't want to tell people, whatever reason.

[James Fox]

He could tell us. Why wouldn't he tell us?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think he knows yet, I don't think, until he gets into office. He gave a speech about it at Mar A Lago.

[James Fox]

I saw that. I saw that. But did he say, well, let's watch it.

[Joe Rogan]

We'll watch it, we'll watch it. Pull the speech up.

[James Fox]

Yeah, because I'm wondering if he. Yeah, well, we're all about to find out.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Essentially he was saying that he knows that the government knows what's going on and they're not telling us. So that means they're not telling him.

[James Fox]

So they're not telling him.

[Joe Rogan]

No, I don't. I don't think until you get into office, you're not the president. Right. So he's the president elect. I don't know what kind of clearances that he has. Yeah. I don't understand how that works.

[James Fox]

I'd be very curious to know what he knows.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Especially with this. Like, who do you even ask? Like, who's the person that can lay out the information? Like, which department? Which. Which agency?

[James Fox]

Yeah, right. It seems like they're so compartmentalized.

[Joe Rogan]

What about the fear here at home of the drone?

[James Fox]

Thank you.

[Joe Rogan]

Good to see you.

[James Fox]

Good to see you. Can you comment on the drones that.

[Joe Rogan]

Are flying around New Jersey ports?

[James Fox]

It seems like the American people have a big disc. The govern. The government knows what is happening. Look, our military knows where they took off from. If it's a garage, they can go right into that garage. They know where it came from and where it went, and for some reason they don't want to comment. And I think they'd be better off saying what it is. Our military knows. And our president knows. Our president knows, and for some reason they want to keep people in suspense. I can't imagine it's the enemy, because if it was the enemy, they'd blast it out. Even if they were late, they'd blast it. Something strange is going on. For some reason, they don't want to tell the people, and they should, because the People are really. I mean, they happen to be over Bedminster.

[Joe Rogan]

Want to know the truth?

[James Fox]

They're very close to Bedminster. I think maybe I won't spend the weekend in Bedminster. I've decided to cancel my trip. Yeah, I think I won't spend the weekend in Bedminster.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

I bet someone told him, Mr. President, it's pretty important that you don't go to the golf course. Yeah.

[James Fox]

God, that's so crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

So what does that mean?

[James Fox]

I gotta, I gotta. If you don't mind there. I was contacted, I went to this.

[Joe Rogan]

Are you gonna switch subjects?

[James Fox]

Well, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is all about exactly what we're talking about. I just. This is something that I really need to put out there because it's very important and it's an unprecedented effort spearheaded by this woman, Andrea, who runs a number of communities on Reddit. And she said that they're banding together for the first time ever. It's the biggest grassroots campaign for government transparency. This is happening on Friday 20th December at 3pm Eastern Time. And this has the potential to reach millions and millions of people. It's the most unprecedented event on Reddit in history. And I'll post all of the necessary information on X because this is a very grassroots effort. And I'm. What are they doing at James C. Fox on X, formerly known as Twitter, It's. The Reddit community is banding together for a huge grassroots campaign for government transparency. So basically all the various platforms on Reddit, like paranormal, ufo, they're all. They don't usually get along too well, but they're all combining their resources and they're getting together for the first time ever and to push for government transparency. There's a couple of government insiders that appear in my film that will be appearing on this to answer questions and what steps that need to be happening. What's going on today. And this is happening on the 20th, 20th of December, 3pm and I'll be posting more information, the very specific details on X amesc Fox. I just wanted to get that out there before because, well, the more this.

[Joe Rogan]

Stuff that happens, the better, the more people demand it, the better. The more politicians hear from the people and want to. I mean, especially politicians that are up for reelection and they want to show that they're doing what the people want them to do. Yeah, I'd like to know more, but obviously I'm very happy that we're hearing much more about the subject in a serious way.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, whatever the hell is going on.

[James Fox]

Yeah. Well, I really encourage you to watch the program.

[Joe Rogan]

I will 100%.

[James Fox]

I went bent over backwards to put together and explain everything in layman terms what's happened from 2017 to today. Because it's unprecedented. We're living in an unprecedented moment in history. There's an unprecedented push for government transparency. And I want to continue supporting our elected officials bipartisan effort to get to the bottom of this. And I especially want to throw a shout out to Representative Burchett because you're killing it, buddy. Thank you.

[Joe Rogan]

Hey Jamie, why don't you use ChatGPT and ask ChatGPT what's going on with the drones in New Jersey.

[James Fox]

I'd be very curious to hear about that. Yeah, it's a damn good idea.

[Joe Rogan]

And maybe then ask Rock, but ask chat GPT what is really happening with the drones in New Jersey. Let's just see what chat.

[James Fox]

Tell me how that works.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know.

[James Fox]

It's AI right.

[Joe Rogan]

And what is really happening with the drones in New Jersey? Let's see. So what does chat GPT say, Chad? GPT is going to search the web.

[James Fox]

This is amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

Numerous jones that had been reported across New Jersey and other east coast. It's incredible how fast fast this is. Look how fast. Look at this. This is incredible. They found no evidence suggesting threat to national security or public safety. Despite these assurances, some local officials and residents remain concerned. For instance, Belleville mayor Michael Melham speculated the increased drone activity might be related to a search for missing radioactive material from the medical facility in New Jersey. Additionally, the public figures like Bethany Frankel have shared unverified theories about the drone's purposes. Further fueling speculation the situation is evolving and authorities continue to monitor investigate new reports reports Residents are advised to report any suspicious drone activity to local law enforcement. Avoid taking matters into their own hands like shooting them down. People are shooting them down. So they shoot them down. They're eating the dogs. Shoot down drones as it could pose safety risks and violate laws. Now ask chat dpt oh, let's just keep going with chat GBD for a little bit because you're asking it again. Ask chat GPT if I live in New Jersey, should I get out of town? Yeah. Yeah. If I live in New Jersey, should I get out of town?

[James Fox]

Should I evacuate? Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Should I evacuate? You'll say evacuate because get out of town is like a colloquialism. Should I evacuate? Okay.

[James Fox]

This is amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

At this time there's no official recommendation for residents in New Jersey. Uh huh. Follow official updates. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. As a precautionary measure.

[James Fox]

Are you sure?

[Joe Rogan]

Are you sure?

[James Fox]

Sometimes you always have to ask it.

[Joe Rogan]

No federal evacuation orders, okay? It knows that there's no federal evacuation orders. If you were going to give me advice, would you tell me to leave the East Coast? Advice is up. There we go. Based on the current information provided by trusted authorities, there's no evidence of an imminent threat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Could you imagine. Put this in. Could you imagine a scenario where these drones are actually looking for a nuclear bomb? And if so, would you advise me as a preemptive measure to evacuate? I type so much worse when people are watching.

[James Fox]

I'm so impressed at how well he's typing. Actually, I. I really am.

[Joe Rogan]

While it's possible to imagine scenarios involving drones searching for dangerous materials such as a nuclear bomb, there's no verified information suggesting such an extreme situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Fox]

So I.

[Joe Rogan]

How about this? I think. Type this in.

[James Fox]

I said if I put it in grok and fun mode, we might get.

[Joe Rogan]

But hold on a second. But try this.

[James Fox]

Is there a non human intelligence behind.

[Joe Rogan]

Listen, I think the drones are looking for a nuclear bomb and I am going to leave New Jersey. Where should I go.

[James Fox]

To? Montana.

[Joe Rogan]

How far away should I go? Oh, that's okay. If you leave New Jersey as a precautionary measure, here are some suggestions for place to relocate temporarily.

[James Fox]

You're doing good.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, so now we're getting better. So now it's saying go further away. Way. Wow. Colorado. Consider. Scroll back up so I can read that. Where it said Colorado. Consider Durango, Grand Junction, or areas outside of Denver. These are safe and equipped with modern infrastructure.

[James Fox]

Almost.

[Joe Rogan]

They're telling you to move. This is telling you to get away from big cities. Durango, Tennessee, the Smoky Mountain region, and Gatlinburger. Knoxville provides natural beauty, lower cost of living, and a sense of isolation. They're telling you how to rebuild civilization. Okay, If a nuke goes off, where to go? If an. If a nuke goes off on the East Coast. Type this in, Jamie. If a nuke goes off on the east coast, where should I be to be safe?

[James Fox]

Oh, my gosh.

[Joe Rogan]

If you're concerned about potential nuclear incident, here's a list of safest options based on geographic, environmental and strategic factors. Montana, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho. Sparsely populated, vast distances from major cities and military targets. Towns like Bozeman, Jackson Hole, Sandpoint are beautiful, remote, and away from the fallout paths. Jesus Christ.

[James Fox]

I'm curious what would happen if you asked. ChatGPT Is it GPT. GPT. If what percentage of UAP represented non human intelligence?

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, that's a good, good one. What percentage of UAP represent a non human intelligence?

[James Fox]

Really curious. I was just pulling it from the Internet.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. Could represent non human intelligence. Remains unknown and speculative. Current investigations by UAP organizations like the US government emphasize the following. Most UAPs have conventional explanations. Oz is Project Blue Book salt of.

[James Fox]

5 or 10% of UAP cases remain unidentified. Even after thorough analysis. These cases I was like 15 to 20.

[Joe Rogan]

But yeah, 5 to 10% evidence inconsistent with known human technology. No conclusive evidence for non human intelligence was UAP cases are public policy. The government has not officially. Okay, Commander, but Type this in. Commander David Friver encountered a tick tock. A Tic Tac.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Tick Tack shaped craft in 2005. Well, 2004.

[James Fox]

2003. 2003.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, 2003. That defied our understanding of known physics, period. What do you think he saw?

[James Fox]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Tic Tac shaped craft remains one of the most compelling and well documented UAP cases in modern history. Key deal details the encounter craft describes. Smooth white, oblong, resembling a Tic Tac. No visible propulsion, wings or exhaust play. Extraordinary flight characteristics. Accelerated instantly from a hovering position. Descended from 80,000ft to near sea level in seconds. Seconds. Fraver reported the object mimicked his movements during their engagement and then vanished at extreme speed. It's possible the craft was an ultra secret military project. Either US based experimental aircraft, aerospace technology or developed by another nation. However, the extreme flight performance raises doubts. Such advanced technology would suggest a significant leap beyond publicly known capabilities which is inconsistent with current engineering limits, sensor anomaly or perception issues.

[James Fox]

I asked the heads of arrow if they could explain that one and they said no.

[Joe Rogan]

If don't type this in really good case. If all accounts of the capabilities of the Tic Tac craft are true, what are the possibilities that it came from another planet?

[James Fox]

If the accounts aircraft capabilities are accurate. Instantaneous acceleration, hypersonic speeds without propulsion, no heat.

[Joe Rogan]

Say it loud so people can hear you.

[James Fox]

Okay, so if the accounts of the Tic Tacs crafts capabilities are accurate. Instantaneous acceleration, hypersonic speeds without visible propulsion, no heat signatures and defiance of inertia then the possibility the possibilities of origin being extraterrestrial or from another planet become a viable hypothesis.

[Joe Rogan]

Here's why the physics of the Tic Tac craft reported behavior. The craft suggests technology that operates beyond our current understanding of physics and propulsion systems. No visible propulsion. It implies propulsion system unrelated to conventional jets or rockets. Instantaneous acceleration defies inertia in Newtonian physics. Achieving this would require manipulating gravity or space time itself. Silent operation, no sonic booms despite hypersonic speeds points to a technology that likely emanates eliminates air resistance, such as surrounding itself in an electromagnetic field or bubble. This level of technological advancement far surpasses anything developed on Earth. If true, such capabilities would suggest a highly advanced civilization, perhaps thousands or millions of years ahead of us scientifically. If true, where do you think it came from?

[James Fox]

And this was. This was 20 years ago that it had to say.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. But if true, where do you think it came from? From if. How about this?

[James Fox]

It's still typing.

[Joe Rogan]

It's still typing.

[James Fox]

Final thoughts. Look at this. Writing a whole turn Paper.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. It's amazing how fast it does it too. It's amazing how fast it does it.

[James Fox]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Tic tac. If the tic tac UAP is real and the accounts are accurate, then its origin may very well be extraterrestrial or involve unknown physics and technology that we haven't begun to comprehend. The extraordinary nature of the case suggests an equally extraordinary explanation. What do you think? Why are you asking me? You're chatgpt.

[James Fox]

What do you.

[Joe Rogan]

Does extraterrestrial visitation seem plausible? Or is there another explanation that resonates more with you? So type this. I believe it seems plausible that they are extraterrestrial in nature.

[James Fox]

Good luck. I was going to say if true.

[Joe Rogan]

Comma. If true. Where do you think they came from? Let's see. Identifying where they might come from involves exploring nearby stellar systems, known exoplanets, and plausible scientific ideas about interstellar travel. Here are the most likely possibilities. Nearby star systems with habitable zones. Zones Alpha Centauri system 4.37 light years away. The closest star system to Earth. Proxima Centauri. Potentially habitable planet. Exoplanet orbiting Proxima Centauri within habitable zone. If life developed there, might be technologically advanced enough for interstellar exploration. Bernard. So it's giving me a list of.

[James Fox]

All the potential possibilities.

[Joe Rogan]

Possible star systems. This one's only 39 light years away.

[James Fox]

What was the closest one? Office Alpha Centauri. Was that. Was that four light years or something?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know. Scroll back up.

[James Fox]

Scroll back up a little bit.

[Joe Rogan]

3.9 million.

[James Fox]

4.3 Alpha Centauri. 4.3 light years away. Wow. But here's the crazy part.

[Joe Rogan]

Pretty close.

[James Fox]

Remember the. Remember the twin paradox theory? They say that if you get like two twins, right? As kids, say one's 10, they're both 10, right? And you put one in a spaceship that travels the speed of light for one year. He would come back with an atomic clock on board that spacecraft, a year old, or he'd be 11, and his brother would be an old man. I can't wrap my mind around that.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. But that's.

[James Fox]

But they say it's pretty much fact.

[Joe Rogan]

But that's speed. Right. I think what we're talking about is different than speed. I think it's instantaneous. Instantaneous relocation.

[James Fox]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

So I think. Yeah, I think instead of, like, manipulate.

[James Fox]

The space time between the two points.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right. So I think the idea is that instead of a rocket that goes, you know, 5 million miles an hour and just shoots off of Earth and keeps going until it, you know, 5 million years from now, it runs into this planet. I think it's different than that. I think, what if I had to guess where something can manipulate gravity and space, what it would do is instantaneously appear in these new places.

[James Fox]

And you've talked to a lot of physicists about this kind of stuff, huh?

[Joe Rogan]

I have. And the way they explained it is baffling. And Bob Lazar's version of it is baffling because Bob Lazar's version of it that he told in 1989 kind of makes sense when you talk to people that are trying to develop some sort of a gravity or a warp drive.

[James Fox]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And the way Bob Lazar explained it is that this element, when bombarded with radiation, creates this. I'm really butchering it, for sure. Creates some sort of a gravity field that allows it. The way he described it. Like if you took a mattress, a very soft mattress, and put a very heavy bowling ball in the middle of the mattress, it pushes the mattress down to that area, and that this, like, folds time.

[James Fox]

Right. So you go from here to here, but when you stretch it down, suddenly those two points connect.

[Joe Rogan]

It folds it.

[James Fox]

Yeah. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And so wherever it is, it's. So. It's not like it's going a million light years. So it's a million light years an hour. Yeah.

[James Fox]

Space is malleable.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[James Fox]

It's just.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it makes sense if. If you think about how technology scales, and if we do. I mean, Ryan brought up this yesterday as well, that there was research and there was papers written about the idea of having some sort of a gravity drive or having some sort of a gravity propulsion system, something that doesn't rely unconventional, you know, rockets.

[James Fox]

Yeah. We're not doing Jedi fuel, that's for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly. And he said that this is something that was Discussed a long time ago, but then it just stopped. Then, you know, we brought it up a long, quite a while ago. There was an episode that we brought up. A paper that was written in the 1960s about gravity drives.

[James Fox]

Was that by Hal Puthoff?

[Joe Rogan]

I do not know, because he's like.

[James Fox]

A propulsion expert in terms of the propulsion behind the physics behind UFOs.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

And he tried. I tried to get him to explain it to me in sort of conventional layman terms and of course my tiny little brain. But I felt like I almost grasped it for a moment, but the amount of power that it would take to create that gravitational field around the object. And he said that's why you see them doing these maneuvers that look like it defy physics. Right. And then everything inside the craft would just splatter that you're immune from that on the inside. According recording.

[Joe Rogan]

Which also would make sense.

[James Fox]

What am I talking about?

[Joe Rogan]

But that would also make sense if you had something like that, that you could go in the ocean as well, right?

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So because whatever's around you wouldn't matter because you're not affected by it.

[James Fox]

Right. You're somehow creating a field around you. It's. It's that. That's immune to whatever that would be.

[Joe Rogan]

The only thing that would make sense how it could move so fast.

[James Fox]

Underwater atmosphere, space, water.

[Joe Rogan]

And how it would be trans. Medium. You can go from space into the water. It's unaffected by gravity. It's unaffected by all the things around it. It creates its own gravity field and it allows it to just pass through things.

[James Fox]

I remember Kirk McConnell who sent an armed service committee who investigated UFOs from 2017. I talked about them earlier, but he said that they were picking up Aegis radar systems, were picking these objects up from basically from space. And they were shooting down from space all the way down. They'd loiter for as long as they wanted to go in the water, come back out again, shoot back up into space. And they would just do it like, you know, all day long and there was nothing.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, we can't see that. Right. I don't know what someone does have. I mean, if there's someone in the military that does have some like super advanced satellite reconnaissance imagery of these things, I could see why they would hold that back. I could see why they would think that people aren't ready for that. I could see it.

[James Fox]

Do you think Elon knows?

[Joe Rogan]

He's real cagey about it.

[James Fox]

He is cagey about it and he's got deals with the DOD and he's got lights and everything.

[Joe Rogan]

That's probably why I'd be cagey about it, too.

[James Fox]

He knows more than what he's saying.

[Joe Rogan]

This is what he said. If aliens are real, they're very subtle. That's what he was saying. I was like, I don't know if they're subtle, man. The Phoenix Lights wasn't that subtle. That's aliens.

[James Fox]

I heard from some people around him that, that because of his contracts with DOD that he kind of keeps quiet about it because I'm sure everybody talks about. I mean, even Ratcliffe talked about the satellite imagery of uap. I mean, if they're picking it up, why wouldn't his systems pick it up?

[Joe Rogan]

He hasn't said a peep about the drone thing.

[James Fox]

And you haven't asked him about it?

[Joe Rogan]

Nope. If he wants to tell me, he'll tell me. I'm not going to be that guy. I'm not going to be annoying. But publicly, like on X, has he said anything about the drones? Said something a couple weeks ago, I believe. I think it was a couple weeks ago. I'll check right now.

[James Fox]

But it was like, there's a big.

[Joe Rogan]

Drone storm or a big drone fight coming, and people are taking that as like he knew this was happening.

[James Fox]

A big drone fight coming.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you know, he's been real public about the idea that building manned fighter jets is, at this point, kind of foolish, you know, and he's. I think he's correct.

[James Fox]

You know, unpiloted only.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I mean, I think the fun out of it. Well, it takes the biological mistakes out of it is what it does.

[James Fox]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

It takes the human mind out. The human mind is very falling. You know, we already know that AI systems, like Mike Baker explained to us that AI systems with fighter jets beat actual fighter jet pilots 100 of the time. So when they have this simulated. Yes, when they have these simulated dogfights, when they take AI fighter jets that we have right now, they beat our fighter jet pilots the best of the best 100 of the time. So they don't have any biological limitations in terms of what. What. So you have that. That. Right. So all you have to do is make the equipment and the materials robust enough so they can take insane speeds and not blow apart. But it certainly would be way easier to do that than it would be to get a human being to be safe in it.

[James Fox]

So much less badass, though, recently.

[Joe Rogan]

So what does he say? Oh, so he clicked on it. Future wars are all about drones and hypersonic jets. So this is us talking about that this is us talking about fighter jet pilots by humans will be destroyed very quickly. Quickly. So he talked about it. So he put a clip up of us talking about it on the podcast. This was in November. November 28th. And so neither side is air superiority and tanks are easily destroyed by missiles. So that leaves infantry and artillery. Basically World War I drones are not yet available in sufficient numbers to matter, much like aircraft in World War I. A defense in depth, trench war means and then some modern example.

[James Fox]

That was like two years ago. So did you get the impression when you spoke to Elon about UFO that he knew more than he was telling you? You said he's cagey.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he doesn't, he doesn't even entertain the idea of UFOs.

[James Fox]

So if you bring up the Fravor incident, he'll just say no, it didn't happen or that's doesn't seem interested.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know. I mean, I would imagine what you're saying is true, that it's not wise for him to discuss it. That's what I would imagine.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

If he wants to tell me, he'll tell me. And if he wants me to tell no one, I'll tell no one. Yeah, if he wants to tell me and say don't tell anybody, I'll, I'll, I won't tell anybody, but I'm not going to ask him. I, I think his position as, you know, being the guy at SpaceX. Yeah, why would you around with that?

[James Fox]

He's got too much at stake.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's way too much at stake. Also, like if anybody's going to find out, he's going to find out if there's something going on, if something legitimately going on. The guy who can catch rockets with a crane, that's the guy he's going to know.

[James Fox]

I thought the first time I saw that, it was like AI generated. I was watching the thing come down and I just thought that's the ones that land.

[Joe Rogan]

Before that those are insane. And now you can catch them, they don't even have to land. It's nuts. Like what he's done is just accelerate what we are capable of doing far beyond what NASA was able to do just a few years ago.

[James Fox]

So I used to have a neighbor that worked for Elon Musk and he drove a Tesla way early, way early on when Teslas weren't that many out there. And I was like, well, you got a Tesla. He's like, yeah, actually work for Elon Musk, blah, blah. And I saw him a couple years later and I was like, hey, you're not driving Tesla anymore. He goes, no. He goes, I don't work for Elon anymore. I was like, oh, I'm sorry to hear that. What happened? He goes, well, he works so hard and his expectations are so high. He goes, I was at the hospital with my wife giving. As she was giving birth to our first child. And Elon's like, I need you in the office.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, Jesus Christ.

[James Fox]

He said. He said. He goes, I could. You know, a guy's got an incredible worth ethic, work ethic, but it was too much. He goes, I'm at the hospital. I don't care where you have to work. It's like, pretty brutal.

[Joe Rogan]

That's brutal.

[James Fox]

Wasn't he sleeping in the. He was sleeping in the.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure. Yeah. He was sleeping. Working 16 hours a day and sleeping on the floor.

[James Fox]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

That's commitment.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he demands out of other people, too. And, you know, maybe you want that, maybe you don't. And if you don't, you can't work there. It's just that simple. Like, if you want that, hop on in. If you're a single guy and you don't have a wife and you don't have children. Children, yeah. But if you do, oh, boy. That's not a life for. That's not a life for me. I wouldn't want that job.

[James Fox]

I think the closest thing to a spaceship on wheels is a Tesla.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, they're amazing.

[James Fox]

Pretty remarkable.

[Joe Rogan]

I've had three of them. This is my third.

[James Fox]

The acceleration is incredible. It's like a gut punch.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I mean, they're getting better. They're getting. The autonomous driving is incredible.

[James Fox]

Now, I remember once somebody said to me, they were like, you know, step on it. You know, show me the acceleration. And I. I stepped on it. A Model 3. Performance. Performance and seems fake. I got nauseous.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

I wasn't quite ready. I was like. I turned myself a little sideways or something. I. I felt nauseous. I was like, wow. I'm. I ride motorcycles. I've been doing all this. I was like, you know, But I was like, now I prepare myself for that. That's really fast. That's super bike fast.

[Joe Rogan]

It's crazy fast. And it can actually. The beautiful thing is you can merge on the highway and you don't seem like a douchebag because you're not like. It's not like, really loud.

[James Fox]

Just super quiet. Quiet, healthy. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's all. Sun's going 100 miles an hour. Like, what happened?

[James Fox]

Yeah, I remember I got A ticket years ago on a motorcycle. And the guy that bought the bike was. Had a loud exhaust pipe, which I ended up getting rid of. I didn't like the loud exhaust pipe. It's too loud. And I got pulled over and the cop never even saw me. He just heard me and he wrote me up exactly how fast I was going. He's like, you're doing 90 to 35. I'm like, I was. He was like, oh, yeah, I could hear you. I was like. I went up through the gears and I put it quiet. So, yeah, that's. Quiet is nice. Quiet has its benefits.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it doesn't in a motorcycle, though. You want to be true.

[James Fox]

That's true. But I drive like the invisible man when I'm on a motorcycle. You have to. Yeah. I've had people look me right in the eyes and they pulled right out in front of me. People want to T bone sideswiped.

[Joe Rogan]

And also people are like, how many people are medicated?

[James Fox]

I don't think they see you as a threat. I think they see as like, you're almost like a gnat or something. I've learned and I tell people that. Ride Mars. I've been riding bikes for 50 years. As soon as you get on that bike, you become the invisible man. Right?

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Pretend no one can see you and.

[James Fox]

That no one can see you. You'll live a lot longer. You can make eye contact with somebody. Doesn't mean they see you.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[James Fox]

I've had people pull out in front of me. Like I said, I've been T boned and all kinds of crazy accidents over the years.

[Joe Rogan]

I wish they weren't so dangerous because I would love to drive one.

[James Fox]

Oh, they're amazing. I know. You just have to be. Like I said, you just, you know.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Until you're not. I had three friends. I was. I was getting my motorcycle license, so I was doing. Doing.

[James Fox]

It was a while ago, 10 years.

[Joe Rogan]

So it was a couple of us that worked on Fear Factor, a couple of guys that worked on set. We all decided to go and take lessons together and shout out to Peter Hershko, and he wound up getting his motorcycle. He kept driving it and. But one of the guys we worked with, he crashed his bike and up his shoulder. And then one of the guys who was fighting for the ufc, Frank Meer, he got hit by a car. He got T boned and ran into his femur. Snapped his femur. And he almost lost his leg. His leg was. And it up his career for years. So there was that. And then I saw a guy on the highway that was covered in a blanket.

[James Fox]

Oh, God.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he was alive, you can see, but his, his leg was so up that they covered in a blanket so that passerbys wouldn't rubberneck it. There's three of those. And then another friend of mine saw someone get hit, saw someone get rear ended, someone not paying attention in their car, rear ended a bike and held. Had the guy flying through the air at a red light. So that was enough for me.

[James Fox]

Yeah, I know. I became a dad. And I had two motorcycles right before I became a dad and I sold them. And then after 10 years, I was like, maybe I can get just like a dirt bike because I really enjoy riding. There's nothing like it being on a motorcycle.

[Joe Rogan]

So imagine if you got a dirt bag, then a mountain lion takes you out. God damn it.

[James Fox]

I have a dirt bike with a motor.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but even with a motor, I don't know if a mountain lion would be scared of a motor.

[James Fox]

Yeah, I'd be able to outrun it.

[Joe Rogan]

But yeah, most of the time they get bicyclers. Yeah, most of the time they kill bicyclers.

[James Fox]

It's nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, so.

[James Fox]

So let me ask your honest opinion. I know we're wrapping up here.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[James Fox]

If you had to say whether you believed or you didn't believe. And look, you can't make any definitive statements, I get that. But you're a very influential individual who's done more for the push for disclosure. I hate to use the word disclosure. It's got a bit of a buzz, a bit of a connection to it, a push for government transparency on this topic. Right. If you had to say something truly inexplicable that most likely would lead to NHI or non human intelligence or not conventional, what would you pick ultimately? That you think there is possibly a non human intelligence behind this or that there is not.

[Joe Rogan]

I wish I could be definitive like that.

[James Fox]

I know you can't be definitive.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't. I try to stay as open minded on this as possible, which I fluctuate back and forth from fully believing to fully believing it's a military experiment and that it's a bunch of our stuff. But then there's stories like the things like the Tic Tac and where you go, okay, 2004. How, how do they, how could they do that in 2004? Is there a propulsion system available in 2004 that's that far advanced? And if so, how come there's so little evidence of it in, like, like in a practical use, like how come that? Technology. You would think that technology would take so much money to develop that you would do something with it in 20 years. You wouldn't just have it and just be flying it around like a drone every now and again.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It would seem like there'd be some sort of a practical application for something like that.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And it seemed like, like the Manhattan Project and like the Stealth bomber. Eventually you find out that it's a real thing. Right. So 20 years is a long time to not find out that something's real.

[James Fox]

Well, how about if we take it up to a lot longer than that? What about the 1952, two consecutive weekends in July over the White House in the Capitol. And that was. We had a press conference about that.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure.

[James Fox]

I mean, in general, that basically admit that they're real.

[Joe Rogan]

Kenneth Arnold, you know, that was phenomenal.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And then you got to go to the Bhagavad garbage. You know, like there's, there's stories of things.

[James Fox]

The historical stuff is incredible, isn't it?

[Joe Rogan]

Like, think of the guy that showed up with the blue skin. Is that an angel? Is that a devil? Like, what if, if you were living 4,000 years ago, you're one of the people that wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls.

[James Fox]

He'd be a God.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. What is that? What, what is that visitation that you've.

[James Fox]

Experienced with a craft? It would be, it would be.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[James Fox]

Connected with a God.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right. And also the story, when you tell the story, like, what is this? And then someone illustrates it, what does it even, how does it even relay in words? Especially you're using the words of 4,000 years ago. What are you describing? And if they really have always been here and they've always been visiting us, that's probably how you would describe it. You would describe it like Ezekiel did in the Bible.

[James Fox]

Yeah. You know, I was in Africa investigating the alleged landing and close encounter of the third kind at Ruizimbabwe Aerial School in 1994. I wasn't there in 94. I was there much later. And the teacher, Judy Bates, who's now the head principal, and she was sharing with me these drawings that children did of the alleged creatures. And they were amazing, these drawings. Big eyes and big heads, almond shaped eyes, blah, blah, blah. And I'm looking at these drawings one after the other from all these school children. It was phenomenal. And she gave. No, I took photographs of them. And then a month later I went to Australia and I was investigating an alleged landing that happened at Western primary school in 1966. And that was. That was incredible. I was there investigating, and I was showing some of the drawings of the aliens that I. The alleged aliens that I just had investigated in Africa. And some of the people were like, oh, wow, these drawings are amazing. They look like the Wanjina cave art. I was like, the what? The Wanjina cave art. The Aboriginals drew these things, and so they pulled it up. Wanjina. And the parallel. They're thousands of years old, right? These cave paintings in Australia. The parallels, the consistencies, the. It was. The comparison of the two is like.

[Joe Rogan]

Let'S take a look at those real quick.

[James Fox]

Yeah, look up 1. 1.

[Joe Rogan]

Gina, before we leave.

[James Fox]

Cave painting. UFO or alien.

[Joe Rogan]

There's most likely something there. I just don't know. And if it's a thing. So let's say if it's a real thing, is it from another planet or is it more complicated than that?

[James Fox]

I think it's more complicated than that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Well, that's chocolate.

[James Fox]

See that?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. Yeah. Very bizarre, right? I mean, look at that one right there with the dark eyes. Look at the three of them. And that. The one in the center, Jamie. Yeah, that one. Look how weird that is, man. That's so weird.

[James Fox]

Look at the one with the dark black eyes there.

[Joe Rogan]

Pale, they are, too.

[James Fox]

It's like.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's very weird.

[James Fox]

And then there's that one with the big. With the big dark eyes. Right down. Just go straight down. Up, down. Yeah, right up to the right. Right there. Look at that.

[Joe Rogan]

Very weird. Very weird. And it's also very weird how this is 4,000 years old, and then Close Encounters of the third kind, the 1970s, 4,000 years old.

[James Fox]

And I'm telling you, I could show you the drawings. One of the witnesses.

[Joe Rogan]

Very weird.

[James Fox]

Yeah. It's just phenomenal.

[Joe Rogan]

Listen, man, thank you for everything. Thanks for what you do.

[James Fox]

Thank you so much for having me on.

[Joe Rogan]

My pleasure. I mean, your fucking dogged determination to get this stuff out there, there. It's very important.

[James Fox]

You promise you'll watch the program?

[Joe Rogan]

I will. 100% watch it.

[James Fox]

Comment? Definitely.

[Joe Rogan]

I will. I will. Thank you, sir.

[James Fox]

Awesome, brother.

[Joe Rogan]

Appreciate you, James. Thank you very much.

[James Fox]

So much. Joe. Thank you.

[Joe Rogan]

It's on Amazon. The program. And then Moment of Contact is probably available everywhere, right?

[James Fox]

And the phenomenon. Yeah, I know what I saw out.

[Joe Rogan]

Of the blue, okay.

[James Fox]

50 years of denial. Oh, my God. It goes back.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You've been. You're. You've been deep in this rabbit hole for a long time. Time, sir. Thanks, James.

[James Fox]

Thank you very much.

[Joe Rogan]

All right, bye, everybody.