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- [00:02]
A
Joe Rogan podcast.
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B
Check it out.
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A
The Joe Rogan experience Train my day.
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B
Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
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A
So Jamie, what was your question?
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C
It was two, Lex. But it was really like. Because he. I wouldn't know.
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A
Hardcore science question.
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B
Yeah.
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C
Based on physics in theory, if you were in space and you maybe ejaculated, is it possible that the ejaculate would propel you backwards? Like send. You know, like, is it propulsion? Is there enough power in there to propel you?
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B
There's only one way to find out.
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A
It depends on how long you hold it in for. Right. If you didn't jerk off for like four months and then you had like the mother load still.
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C
Not me. You need something to go one way so you go the other way.
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A
Yeah.
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C
And Lex had an answer, but I don't know.
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A
What's the answer?
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C
We had a thought, I guess.
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A
What if you blow out at the same time?
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think in space the, like the biodynamics of the liquids is different.
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A
Oh yeah.
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B
I think there's. It's actually difficult to have sex in space and to get people pregnant in space.
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A
Has anybody ever gotten pregnant on the space station? Are they allowed even to have sex?
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B
No, nobody has officially had sex in space.
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A
Officially.
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B
Officially. But unofficially, of course people have tried.
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A
I wonder if they have. I mean, how monitored are they?
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B
There is a Wikipedia page about sex in space and it's actually pretty detailed.
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A
But it's Wikipedia, so you know, it's half bullshit.
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B
There's citations. I encourage people to look into it, read in detail. I mean, it's a serious problem. If you want to, you know, colonize space, you probably want to have a lot of sex and.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Get pregnant and have kids and.
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A
Well, don't you think they'll develop some sort of gravity generating machines?
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B
Yeah, absolutely. You have to like, Jeff Bezos talks about this a lot, you know, like how you create artificial gravity in space. Because for, for Jeff Bezos, the likely way to colonize space is to have space stations. Elon is more focused on colonizing planets. Mars.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So both, both are obviously going to be necessary. And you got need to have gravity in order to get laid, bro.
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A
The first people that make that trip. Oh yeah.
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B
Jamie was saying he wants to go.
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C
I mean, I'm not that trip, but yeah, a trip.
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A
You go eventually.
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C
Why not?
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A
Oh, dude, why? What if you die out there?
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C
Okay, you're gonna die.
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B
Everybody dies.
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A
Yeah, you don't want to die that way, dude.
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C
If you get to decide one way to die that's not one of the worst ways.
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A
It's the worst way. You're gonna die in space. Running out of air.
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C
You don't know how it's gonna happen on re entry.
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A
You could get. Yeah, you could just cook instantly.
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C
Could be on the way up you.
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A
Get hit by a micro meteorite.
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C
Could be while you're asleep up there.
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A
Could be.
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B
Imagine standing on Mars looking back at.
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A
Earth going, what the fuck did I do? Why did I do this?
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B
Yeah. And then having kids on Mars and then teaching them. We came from there.
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A
You think homeschooling's bad? How about space schooling?
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B
Just imagine the crazy that happens on Mars. I mean it's, it's going to be what, a hundred thousand people?
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A
Yeah. And so you're going to get one psycho who's going to run everything and they're going to take over.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Probably some cult leader convinces everybody to do it his way.
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B
It's going to be a sex cult. 100, 100. And we're back to Sex and Space.
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A
Right. They're going to say, like, listen, if Elon is their man. Elon wants to procreate every chance he can. How many kids does he have now?
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B
Allegedly double digits.
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A
We don't even know how many. Well, because they think he's got secret kids.
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They think. Who's they?
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They, the people that run the world.
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B
Is there a Wikipedia page on this?
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A
There probably is. He's probably got secret kids.
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B
Secret kids?
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A
Yeah. When you have like, what does he have, like 300 plus billion dollars. You can, you can have a few ladies here, there, all over the place having kids. There's a lot of ladies who just want to have kids. They don't want a guy around.
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B
Yeah, there's a.
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A
Especially when they get a little older.
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B
There's a castle in the south of France with a, like a harem just waiting for him.
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A
Yeah, yeah. Just waiting for daddy allegedly to land his rocket.
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C
Official says at least 12.
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A
At least 12 kids. See, nobody even knows. Imagine no one knows how many kids you have. That's kind of crazy.
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B
Yeah, yeah. What's the situation Genghis Khan was in, you know?
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A
Well, he was doing it a little differently. He was a little bit more forceful actually.
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B
I mean, there's a lot of different perspectives on that. Like I. What's the book on Genghis Khan? So first of all, there's obviously the Dan Carlin, Wrath of the Khans. And in that series of podcasts he criticizes the book. Jack Weatherford, Genghis Khan and the Making of The modern world. The Mongols and the. Making the modern world.
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A
Yeah. So that's the anal there. It is. Nice. That is one of the things that Dan Carlin talks about, that when enough time has passed that they sort of look at these marauders and murderers in a different light and saying, oh, he opened up trade to the east. Sure. Also killed 10% of the population of Earth, lit people on fire and launched them on catapults onto thatched roofs.
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B
Well, I think. I think actually, Dan Carlin makes a really good point. How long do you wait until, you know that you could tell these kinds of stories about Hitler? I think that's the example.
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A
That's what he uses.
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B
But, you know, you want to be historically accurate here. And Genghis Khan, there's a lot of different perspectives, including opening up trade and including what was the protocol based on which he was doing the murdering. So it was very clear before the invasion, he always said, you can surrender, and then we would not murder anybody. You just have to follow the law. And the law was very, very sort of clear. And it's basically enforcing a law of the land. So free trade, free practice of religion, and you have to pay taxes instead of to your. To your king, you have to pay taxes to the Mongol Empire.
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A
But did they really say, we won't kill anyone?
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B
Yes, 100%. They followed that. And this is very well documented.
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A
Really?
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B
Yes.
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A
So everybody could have just laid down and 10% of the world's population wouldn't be dead.
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B
Yes. Really? So the nuance there is that sometimes they killed the upper classes.
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A
Mm. Well, you know, didn't they kill the royals by, like, crushing them to death? They'd have lunch over them.
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B
They were. Listen, this is a different time. But they were brutal. If they. If they. Because they want to. They use fear as part of the. The military tactics. Right. So they want people to be terrified, and they want people to talk about how terrifying the Mongol Empire is so that they forfeit more easily. You know, there's. There's a lot of aspects of it not. Not to say that Genghis Khan is a feminist, but there's a lot of progressive aspects. Like he put a lot of women in positions of power. He gave a lot of rights to. To women. This is a very strange.
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A
A lot of raping.
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B
Nope. There's not his kids. It's. I mean, it's.
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A
What do you mean, nope? When. When he would conquer these places, he would take women and new wives. Yeah. But it wasn't their call. So that's Kind of rapey, that's very rapier.
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B
So. But there's a.
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A
If you just take them and make them have your kids.
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B
There's the kind of mass rape that the Soviet soldiers did at the end of World War II when they're marching towards Berlin, which is extremely violent, vicious and sort of that kind of rape, which is part of the terror of war. And then there's like creating a harem of women. Right. So it's a different. I think the main point is that, you know, this is something you talk about that, you know, a large percent of the population, as that one study from like 20 years ago found, are descendants of Genghis Khan.
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A
Huge. Yeah.
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B
I think the way to do that is to. Is to make everybody who is your descendant popular within the culture. Like, you can't, you can't have that many be. Have your DNA propagate throughout civilization by reaping. You have to have everybody who like to have a high status for people that are associated with Genghis Khan. You can't have that kind of thing with fear. You can only do it with respect and high status. And he, for several generations, created an empire that was flourishing.
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A
Okay, you kind of whitewashing that?
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B
No.
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A
Well, I mean, they killed a million people in Jin China and turned their bones into a stack, a pile that they recognized as snow covered mountains from the distance. That's what they thought it was until they got up on it. When the Shah of Charisma came there to check it out, he's like, where is everybody? They had abandoned the roads because there were so many dead bodies that the roads had deteriorated into muck.
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B
Yeah. Let me actually sort of backtrack a little bit here because I'm uncomfortable because I'm deeply involved in the military affairs of modern day. And so there's a kind of. I was just kind of having fun. Yes. There was mass murder that was happening. It was vicious and we could, and I'm not a scholar of Genghis Khan. I was simply saying that it's interesting how history looks at these different empires. For example, we venerate the Roman Empire. Not we, but ancient Greece. And they were equally, if not more brutal in their conquests and their destruction.
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A
There's never really been a time where there was a leading superpower that wasn't brutal.
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B
It's, I think, become less and less brutal over time. And people document this. So war, the number of people as a percent of the population killed is less and less laws.
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A
Ukraine and Russia, like how many people have died all Told between the two, it's got to be close to a million.
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B
It's over a million casualties, which includes death and injuries. And the estimates vary, but I think a good estimate is over 400,000 total, maybe over 400,000 on both sides. And the dead on the Ukraine side is probably one third or one fourth of the total dead, really.
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A
So three quarters of them on the Russian side. On the Russian side, really? What do you attribute that to?
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B
I think there's military scholars that understand this really well. I think in general, the invading force loses more people than the defending force. That's one aspect, of course, the Ukrainian military will say it's about the effectiveness of the, the Ukrainian military. And also one of the other things they say is that the medical capabilities. So the medics are really strong on the Ukrainian side, which is also tragic because you're able to save lives, but you have the injuries, the pain of war that the veterans have to go through, so they're able to save lives more effectively also. But there is a big characteristic of the invading force usually loses more people.
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A
What was it like going over there and interviewing Zelensky?
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B
So I should say I went to Ukraine twice after February 24, 2022 invasion. And maybe it's good for me to also say where I come from, because it's surreal to be there. For me, both my parents are from Ukraine, from Kyiv and Kharkiv. These are towns in Ukraine, cities in Ukraine. I've been there many times. I myself was born in Tajikistan, speaking of Genghis Khan, and I lived there in Tajikistan. And by the way, I'm regretting defending Genghis Khan in this conversation for fun.
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A
You didn't really defend.
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B
Yeah, I, I, I want to be sort of say that over and over again. War is hell, and it's almost a tension between how much Roman Empire, Caesar and these folks are venerated. And Genghis Khan is seen as this barbarian that was just destroying and raping and so on. They were all horrible, vicious warmongers, all of them.
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A
Yeah, yeah.
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B
Anyway, Tajikistan. And I lived for a time in Kyiv, and I lived for a time in Moscow. I have family in Ukraine. I have family in Russia. And so, and I should say In World War II, a lot of my family was slaughtered in Babi Yar, which is a ravine in Kiev where they gather people around the Nazis, and they just put them in this ravine and just shot them and then put another layer of humans, told them to get naked and face down, lay face down, and slaughter and slaughter. Like this, it's mass, mass, mass graves, mass slaughter. And my grandfather fought the Nazis. He's a machine gunner, which, he's one of the few that survives, which is the reason I'm here, that they basically tried to hold off the, the Nazi armada and that this, the surreal aspect of all this is the same land. You know, I just still remember the song. It's 22nd of June. The bombing, bombing. At 4am the bombing of Kiev began. So this is in 1941, June 22nd. Just imagine, speaking of Genghis Khan, complete surprise. Just the Nazi armada, just like, just calming Operation Barbarossa, this massive military force invading your land. It's Kiev. And there's these, the greatest, the biggest battles of all time were in this land. The Battle of Kiev, the Battle of Stalingrad, the Battle of Moscow. We're talking about hundreds of thousands, millions of people just slaughtering each other. And the way Hitler, of course, approached the battle, and so does Stalin, is nobody surrenders. It's. There's no. It's all in slaughter. It doesn't matter if it's winter, it doesn't matter if there's no guns, it doesn't matter. It's just victory or death on both sides. And so it's just brutal war. So this is the land, right? This is. And I have, you know, for a lot of people in this land, this history is part of them. It's part of their blood. They, they remember these struggles. They remember this, this political, this geopolitical, this military, this social. This, this is real. This is like. Imagine the, it's because recent. Imagine the United States living maybe a few decades after the Civil War. You remember, you, you remember the, the, you know, you have relatives that died. You have, you remember the real, the real hatred, the real tensions, the real, the real battle. So, yeah, it was surreal to be back there and to try to do what I was doing, which is to push for peace. Since there's probably a lot to say about this war, I should say that I interviewed Vladimir Volodymyr Zelensky and I will be traveling to Russia to interview Vladimir Putin. And I'm aware of the risks. I accept the risks. And the goal, the mission is to just push for peace, to do my small part in pushing for peace. And that's what I was trying to do in this conversation. And it required just a huge amount of preparation for people who don't know, maybe I'll lay out where there was opportunities for peace. So since the beginning of the war, February 24, 2022, I think there was three moments to make peace. From the perspective of Ukraine, you want to make peace from strength. So when you're in a position of strength, the first time to make peace was March and April of 2022 when the, the Ukrainian forces were able to successfully defend the north, defend Kyiv. There's this huge optimism, this belief that we're pushed back. This gigantic Russian military that's a place for leverage and the confidence both of the US funding, the European militaries and the Ukrainian military, that we can win this. This is when you make peace, when there is, when there is a perception and the reality of strength. The second time was in the fall of 2022 when there was a successful counteroffensive by the Ukrainian forces that recaptured Kharkiv and Kherson. This is the south and the east of Ukraine and there was this real sense that we could, that the Ukrainian forces can defeat the Russian forces. Huge optimism, a lot of pressure from the US to make peace then. This is the strength and perhaps the weakness of Volodymyr Zelensky, who I do think is a historic figure and a great leader, is that he, one deeply, emotionally feels the suffering of the people and the loss that war creates. And he single handedly has to unite the nation and carry the will of a people and the morale of a people, has to lift the morale of a people. And that kind of man struggles to make peace because he understands, he wants justice, not peace. And so from a position of strength there, he wants to go further, recapture all of the land that he sees belongs to Ukraine. But that's exactly when you make peace. And so his very strength, a man that stayed in Kiev that said, you know, fuck you, we're not going to, we're going to win this. That kind of man that lifted a whole nation, that united a whole nation, that man also struggled to make peace. And so the third time to make peace after all of that, the Russian military regrouped and has been capturing land gradually. So the third time to make peace is now the Trump administration, there's a momentum, they want to make peace. He's a great deal maker. He wants to end wars in all parts of the world.
- [20:09]
A
We've made the deal in Gaza. Now this episode is brought to you by Netflix. Peter Sutherland, played by the absolutely badass Gabriel Basso is back in the Night Agent season two. It's one of Netflix biggest shows of all time. Created by Sean Ryan who made action packed hits like the Shield and swat. This season follows Peter as a full time Agent out of the White House basement and into the field, where danger is everywhere and trust is in short supply. Don't miss this one. Answer the call with The Night Agent Season 2 January 23rd only on Netflix. This episode is brought to you by Vivobarefoot. We are in the middle of a footwear Crisis. Despite around 95% of people being born with healthy feet, a lifetime in conventional shoes can often weaken and distort them. That's why Vevo Barefoot is on a mission to reconnect people to nature and human natural potential with footwear that maximizes feeling and freedom of movement, helping you reg natural shape and Sensation. Go to vivobarefoot.com Joe Rogan to learn more and get 20% off your first Vivos with promo code JR20 made the.
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B
Deal in Gaza, and that's a super complicated situation, too, because they made a ceasefire deal with the hostages.
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A
But, like, isn't. But isn't it amazing that the Biden administered. Biden administration had two years, couldn't get anything done, and Trump gets it done in a day. He was saying that he was going to be able to do that and everybody dismissed it.
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B
Yeah. And I think there's a political battle now taking credit for who made the ceasefire, which I think is silly. It's.
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A
Of course you're going to have that.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Biden is the president. He's still the president for another few days.
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B
The point is, with Donald Trump, there's a real will and a momentum to make peace. There's a respect, there's a fear, there's, you know, whatever you think about Donald Trump, he is this person that world leaders respect in the full meaning of the word respect, not like admire, but fear. I think both Zelensky and Putin fear Donald Trump, and that's a great person to then make peace because he has the leverage. All of them believe Putin and Zelensky that Trump can do some crazy shit.
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A
And he probably would, but he doesn't want to.
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B
He's a difference.
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A
That's the very unique position that he's in, where they're afraid of him, but yet he wants peace.
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B
Exactly.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And so this is the time. And if you don't make peace now, what's going to happen is the funding from us and the support from us is going to dwindle gradually. And Putin is willing and able to just wait and to let the war continue for months and for years. And meanwhile, people are dying every single day. Thousands of people.
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A
What's horrible about this war, too, is there's gopro footage. Yeah, there's a lot of cell phone footage. There's a lot of GoPro footage. I've watched too much of it, unfortunately. But it's, it's rough, man. It's, it's a horrible war. And it's a war that's so confusing over here for, especially to the uninitiated, for the people that are just like kind of reading the newspaper and getting a, it's a sort of a cursory understanding of what happened. Russia invaded, why, you know, what'd they do. And then you, you got to get into the whole US backed coup in 2014. And then you have to think about NATO and the agreement that was made the fall of, you know, when the wall came down in Berlin, the agreement that NATO would not push forth and move closer to Russia, which they violated over and over and over again. The whole thing is so complicated that it takes forever just to sort of get an understanding of the pieces that are involved. Forget about like who's responsible for what, but just like how many different things are happening, you know, simultaneously that are forcing Putin's hand, now Zelensky's hand. And just to be on this side of the world watching it take place, it's almost unbelievable. It's so hard to believe that Russia and Ukraine, which were both a part of the Soviet Union just not that long ago, while during my lifetime, now they're at war.
- [24:48]
B
And I should say that I believe so. How do you handle situations like this? I believe us actually gave not enough money to Ukraine. They should have given more money, hit really hard and then make peace. This is the point. A month or two after the start of the war, you can learn the same kind of lesson with Iraq and Afghanistan. There's no reason, those invasions, those military.
- [25:14]
A
Operation, there's no other way. There's no other way than just give money. Give money and hit hard. There's no other way.
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B
What about, what about it? Avoid it?
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A
Yeah. What about have NATO back out?
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B
Well, a lot of this is about diplomatic rhetoric. And yes, NATO was consistently talking shit to Putin. And that's not like. A lot of this is about diplomacy.
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A
Right.
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B
And you can't just, you can't just pressure with words. I mean, for some people it seems almost silly that you need to show respect to world leaders, but there needs to be shown real respect. Putin has laid out the interest of the Russian Federation. He said he's been very clear about what the interests are. They want their security to be respected, they want their nation to be respected. He's very clear and simply at the negotiation table, he just needs to be respected. Like, his perspective needs to be understood and heard. You can't just say, putin is evil, bad guy, authoritarian, hates freedom. We need to destroy him. This kind of, this whole vibe and energy you come with, this idealistic sense that you bring to the table. You have to respect leaders, you have to respect Xi Jinping. You have to respect Putin when you're at the negotiation table, not when you're on Twitter and X or talking or historians or activists. Fine. You can criticize as much as you want, as vicious as you want. You can mock. Artists can mock as much as they want. Comedians, doesn't matter. When you're a world leader and you come to the table, you have to show respect. You have to treat other world leaders as funny as is to say the way you want to be treated with respect.
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A
It's not funny at all. Yeah, makes sense.
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B
And it.
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A
If you want to get things done, if you want.
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B
If you want to get things done, and more importantly, if you want, in this war for the death to end. One of the things I kept pushing in an almost childlike way with Zelensky is getting him to open himself up for peace, because he kept shutting it down. He kept mocking Putin, he kept criticizing Putin, which is okay. It's okay to sort of criticize and say that there's war crimes, that there's real vicious violence and destruction happening. But along that there has to be a door open of respect, of I'm willing to come to the table to negotiate and respect the other nation's interests, as opposed to saying, I'm only going to talk to the United States. You have to be open to negotiate because there had, unfortunately, this is the motherfucker of peace, is you have to compromise. You have to sit across the table as a world leader with a person you might fucking hate. Because unlike Putin, I should say, Zelensky goes to the front, he talks to the soldiers, he sees the dead bodies, he talks to the civilians, the mothers that lost their children, the wise that lost their husband, Right? This person who was an empath, who's an emotional being, he's wearing all that in his mind like there's a real pain there. Like he's tortured, tormented by this. If you're a leader, you have to put all that aside and you have to sit and save your nation by compromising. That's it. And that's the hard thing of it. Especially now. There's an opportunity where the Trump figure rolls in. Who wants to make peace. You have to use this opportunity.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And it's tough. It's very, very tough.
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A
Yeah, you're putting it mildly. Very tough. What. What do you think Trump can do now when he gets an. What. What could possibly. If Zelensky wants victory, they want revenge. What can Trump do to sort of, like, bring peace to the table?
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B
I think some of these notions sound naive, but literally meet, which they haven't been meeting. So meet with Putin. Meet with Zelensky.
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A
They haven't been meeting at all.
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B
No. So Zelenskyy comes down. They've been meeting with Zelenskyy, but there was no meeting with Putin. I think the right thing to do is to go to. Whether it's Switzerland or. Or Turk, Istanbul or Minsk. And, like, the biggest thing for me would be literally the three of them sit together. I think I. I trust in Trump's negotiation ability and the. The carrot and the stick of the. Of the United States military and the United States economy for being able to control oil prices, being able to control trade with tariffs, being able to threaten military force and funding and so on, plus sanctions. All of this, you can roll in with that carrot and stick implied or made implicit or explicit, and just sit at the table and talk like human beings and show each other respect like that. You know, it's one of the things that actually Covid did. There's something that happens where remote communication just is not it. Like the. The silly thing about this podcast being in person, right. There's a real power there. Everything else is, you know, like fucking with a condom. But, yeah, you have to show up. It's part of the reason.
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A
More like jerking off with a condom on.
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B
Jerking off with a.
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A
He's not even fucking with a condom on.
- [30:59]
B
For the metaphor. Yeah. As part of the reason, I wanted to talk to President Zelenskyy in Russian, which I speak fluently. And he speaks fluently. It's his primary language for. People seem to misunderstand this. On the Internet, he spoke Russian his whole life. That's his main language. He speaks it with his wife, with his whole staff, with all of this. This is his language. It's just that now the Ukrainian language has become a symbol of independence. So they're fighting for their independence, for their sovereignty. I understand it, but, you know.
- [31:31]
A
So he spoke with you in Ukrainian.
- [31:33]
B
He kept going back and forth. But, yeah, most of the powerful things were said in Ukrainian. So I'm listening to an interpreter through a shitty headset. The interpreter's not. Forgive me. To the interpreter, it's not very good. He's delayed. There's noise.
- [31:47]
A
God. But wouldn't it make more sense if he spoke to you in a language that you understand?
- [31:50]
B
Yeah, this we really tried, but this is a man once again. Yeah, he's, he's the leader of a nation in a time of war. And he's not stylistically who he is. Like, he's all in. This is like a Braveheart type character.
- [32:07]
A
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- [33:28]
B
Right. I mean, this. You never know. You never know who the, who the leaders are that step up. I think, you know, a lot of people sort of say that it's trivial that he stayed in Kiev when the, the Russian military invaded. To me, it's not trivial. Trivial at all. I think that's a truly heroic act to stay when you know, when nobody knows what's going to happen and all the experts are saying Kyiv is going to be taken. To stay as a leader in that same place where you were the night before, like working and not flee. When everybody, the CIA, everybody's telling you to flee, to stay there like a bad motherfucker and actually go outside and film yourself speaking to the nation that we're going to win this. We're Going to hold strong. That's a, that's an insane thing to do. And maybe it does require like it's a Trump level insanity. Right. It's similar to me to the Trump standing up when there's still bullets flying and saying, fight, fight, fight. Right. That's a. Where does that come from? I don't know, but most people don't have that.
- [34:36]
A
Right.
- [34:36]
B
It's nice when it was refreshing. It was refreshing when you see that, like, holy, yes, we want that guy.
- [34:45]
A
Yeah.
- [34:45]
B
And he really united a nation. The nation was fracturing. He was actually not popular at all up to that war because the policies he was trying were not working.
- [34:55]
A
What policy specifically?
- [34:57]
B
So his. So the stuff that was working. I don't know the internals of the Ukrainian politics that well. But. So he won in 2019 based on his desire to fight corruption and to modernize Ukrainian digital system, which he did very successfully. It's actually super interesting. You can. They have a app called DIA where it's your passport, all your identifications, all applified, which I don't understand why the United States doesn't have that. You can like update your license. You can get your license like instantly. So it's like the 21st century version of what government should work. Like, the reason they did that is it's a way to fight corruption. It's a way like whenever you have paperwork, there's a place for corruption to seep in. So he was very serious about fighting corruption. And that's the other thing is there is corruption in Ukraine. There's not as much as people perceive.
- [35:59]
A
But it's a serious problem, especially less now than before.
- [36:04]
B
Well, I want to be careful here because I don't like. It's very difficult to know the perception. There's a serious concern about corruption. In a time of war, there's always going to be more corruption. The United States spent $9 trillion on the war in Afghanistan, Iraq and the Middle east after 9 11. On that part of the world, they spent $9 trillion. And it's growing using all that money. You've had a lot of guests on this program talking about how that money was used. There's a lot of shady shit that happened. War breeds corruption. This is one of the reasons you should be concerned about the military industrial complex is because that money is just not used well.
- [36:47]
A
Right.
- [36:49]
B
But that's all. That's the discussion. The reality of corruption in Ukraine is it should be dealt with after you make peace. All the problems. The elections were suspended too. The ideas of democracy there is censorship in Ukraine. Now, all of those ideas cannot be. All of those things cannot be fixed until the war has ended. The reason there is censorship now, Ukraine, is because it's. It's a, It's a war. Like, you can't. The ideas of democracy, in part, have to be suspended during a war to effectively fight that war. This is, this is a whole idea of martial law. The United States has this. You, you don't. You don't fuck around. You have to win the war when your land is invaded. You have to. Every. Everybody has to be focused on this. The problem is it's a slippery slope. When all the media channels are being controlled and the president and everybody is so invested in, quote, unquote, winning the war, then where are the critical voices that say we need peace? Right. They're coming from the outside, but you need that. The thing is, it's a really complicated tension. Right. You don't. During the war, with martial law, you do want to suspend elections potentially. It's a really difficult trade off. The United States has the same thing. If we were to be invaded, I don't know by. By who. This is not, you know, if Canada invaded, I don't want to make a joke out of this, but there's going to be a more. Yeah. Quick fight. Yeah, exactly. But like, there, There would be a martial law where elections would be delayed or suspended and so on. So all those criticisms, all those concerns can only be dealt with once you make peace.
- [38:46]
A
Yeah.
- [38:47]
B
And in terms of, in terms of corruption, just my. There's a lot of people that know Zelensky well, and this has been my impression, having met him there, I don't think he. And I have not heard anybody that knows him well say that he's personally corrupt. And this is really important. Like, he himself is not personally corrupt, and he's. He legitimately is fighting corruption now. He's in a system that has corruption, Russia has corruption. It's really difficult to weed out corruption. But he legitimately, at least to me, that's really important, that he, as a single human being and the people really close around him, like really close. Corruption starts to seep in, of course, when you go further out, but in that direct human being that he is not personally corrupt. He, like, financially speaking, he singularly believes in the idea of Ukraine as a sovereign nation, and he's willing to die for that idea. That is his strength, and that is also his weakness. When it's time to make peace, when.
- [39:58]
A
You are preparing to do something like this and you are you know, you're doing your research, you're getting ready to go do it. What are your concerns? Other than your own physical safety, of course. But, like, what is your. Like, ultimately, what's your concerns? What are your goals when you're setting out to do this? Because this is very different than any other kind of podcast interview. It's. It's. There's no other format, really, where a world leader in the middle of a huge international conflict is going to sit down for three hours and talk to an American scientist. Which is weird, too. Right? It's like, why are you doing it? You know what I mean? Like, what? This guy who works in AI just decides he's gonna start a podcast. The podcast becomes very successful, and all sudden he's like, I'd like to talk to everybody. I'd like to go over and talk to Zelinsky and talk to Putin, and everybody's like, why you? What the fuck are you doing? So you get a lot of that.
- [41:09]
B
Yeah.
- [41:10]
A
And then, unfortunately for you, you read the comments, so you get sucked into all that negativity.
- [41:16]
B
Yeah. I mean, there's a lot to say there. First of all, on the comments side, I always have a little Joe Rogan on my shoulder saying, don't read the comments.
- [41:22]
A
Don't read the comments.
- [41:23]
B
And in this situation, it's especially intense.
- [41:28]
A
Yeah.
- [41:29]
B
I should say, like, privately, after I did a conversation with Zelensky, every single person that knows the situation well, knows me personally, has written to me, and it's all been really positive. Like, really positive. Almost like in the desert wanting water positive. Because there's a lot of voices that are afraid to speak, that want peace.
- [41:51]
A
Sure.
- [41:52]
B
But online, this is something we talked about offline a little bit. There's just, like, these, like, swarms of.
- [41:59]
A
People that are, like, not even necessarily people that's.
- [42:03]
B
I don't want to sort of go too far in that territory, assuming that anybody who criticized me is a bot.
- [42:09]
A
No, no.
- [42:09]
B
But.
- [42:10]
A
But there is saying that. But there's a. There's an enormous element of that real. Whether it's bots or whether it's hired people, paid propagandists. The. The conversation is not a pure conversation between people expressing their ideas. There's a lot of propaganda online, and it's very confusing to try to discern what the percentage is. You know, we've talked about this a bunch of times on the podcast, but there was a former FBI analyst who estimated that it's on Twitter alone. This is before the purchase. He believed it was around 80%. So 80% fake accounts. 80%. Not just propaganda, like government propaganda, but most certainly corporations are hiring people to do similar things. I'm sure there's companies that will do that for public figures, actors, you know, people that are involved in conflict. This is part of the Blake Lively dispute is that she's accusing that Justin Baldoni actor of an organized attack on her, which is probably what it feels like anyway when you're involved in something on social media like, oh my God, this is organized where they're attacking you. But it's, it's a very confusing landscape. Ideally, what we would want with social media is different people, informed and non uninformed, but at least expressing their ideas on things and exchanging information back and forth and talking. It's not the whole story though. There's a lot of other players involved that are not real. There's, there's AI for sure. There's, there's definitely large language models that are involved in this back and forth with, you know, automation and you know, they look out for certain code words and these, these accounts attack certain ideas. So it's hard to know like what the actual will of the people is.
- [44:13]
B
Yeah, I mean it's definitely true. And I've seen a lot of evidence of this that there's Ukrainian bot farms and Russian bot.
- [44:21]
A
Have you spoke to Elon about this, about bot farms? Yeah, because like he knows a lot more now. Of course. Right. Because there was the big concern when he was buying Twitter. They were trying to say there was 5%, it was only 5% bots. And they were doing that on extremely low sample size. They were doing it off of 100 people. So they got 100 people. And out of those 100 people, five of them they determined were bots. And so they went with 5%, which is just ridiculous. You know, you're dealing with how many people are on Twitter every day. Like, what's the total Twitter audience? It's not as big as Facebook. Right. Facebook is 3.2 billion worldwide, which is unbelievable.
- [44:57]
B
I think X has a smaller number, but very influential, very active.
- [45:03]
A
Yeah, very active. Very influential. 245 daily active. What is the total amount of accounts on it though? Because, you know, there's daily active and then there's just people that just read them. There's a lot of people that just read 541.56 million monthly active users. So again, that's active users. So total users. What's the total users? See, it's all active. I want to know accounts.
- [45:41]
C
That's the Only I don't. They delete counts all the time, right?
- [45:47]
A
Yeah, they definitely do. So they must have some sort of a system where they weed out bots. And, you know, there's a lot of concern right now on Twitter about censorship. You know, this is. I'm. I try to stay out of Twitter as much as I can, honestly, because I think it's bad for your mental health. I really do. I think people just barking at each other all day is not good to absorb. I want to absorb real people that I interact with. I want to. I mean, I try to pay attention to the news, I try to pay attention to whatever controversial ideas are out there and try to see what I think. But I don't think it's good to dive in to social media all day. I think it's uniquely bad. And I think so many people are involved in it and they don't realize that they're. They're poisoning their brain just like they would poison their body if they're eating junk food all day. I think it's genuinely bad for you.
- [46:43]
B
Yeah. I mean, and you and I, and also in a particular, you know, doing a podcast and we're also very different human beings. I would say your psychologic, your psychological fortitude is, is pretty strong. Again, I'm more, I wear my heart on my sleeve maybe a little bit more. And when, if I like, shit gets to me and, and you know, when you try to put compassion out there in the world in the way, in the way I did, especially with this conversation with Zelensky, the attacks, like, you.
- [47:16]
A
Just have to recognize who the kind of people that are doing that are. Yeah, you know, those are just really weak people. Really weak, psychologically damaged, mentally ill people that are probably medicated.
- [47:29]
B
I started to push back. I think some of them are actually good, sophisticated people. They're just acting not their best selves. Like, I've seen this. There's people that are like, I know them personally and online, they just like the worst shit comes out of them.
- [47:45]
A
Yeah, well, because they're mentally ill.
- [47:48]
B
But then all of us are a bit mentally ill. Yeah, well, we're all.
- [47:50]
A
A little mentally ill. Like, no one is enlightened that I've met. I've never met one person who's perfect. Right. I don't think it's possible with this journey that we're on as these meat vehicles, these soul caring meat vehicles navigating a very confusing world. I don't think it's possible to be perfect. But you can have a desire to Be a good person. And some people don't have that. And the excuse that they always use is, I mean, this is the Donald Trump excuse. You do anything you can to stop Hitler, you know? Right. And this is. This is why they want to conflate and they always want to pretend that everyone's Hitler. The problem with that is it just after a while, it's crying wolf and people like, oh, this is a bullshit game you're playing, and you're just using it as an excuse. Elon's talked about this a lot about, and he's absolutely correct, is that people use woke ideology as an excuse to be an asshole. And it's really just people that are assholes that are attaching themselves to things that make them feel righteous. And so they wrap themselves in this idea to give them virtue and to allow them to say the most awful things about other people that have different perspectives. And then just by nature, if you're doing that, you're doing the wrong thing, you're a bad person. You can justify it all you want. You can find people that agree with you all you want, but those people also are on the right track, or the wrong track, rather. The people that are listening to you and agreeing with you, they're on the wrong track. They're the wrong track. If we want to be collectively a kind, compassionate, cohesive society, a community of human beings that all live together, that's totally possible. If you can do it in small groups of people, you can do it in enormous groups of people. It just has to be an ethic that gets promoted. It has to be something that you see people that you admire adhere to, and you do it as well. Whenever someone goes outside of that, and whenever someone starts making horrific, unfounded personal attacks because someone has a different political ideology or, you know, just going after them every day, all day long, like, you're just broken. You're just. You're on the wrong path, period. And intelligent, aware. People that have control of their emotions recognize that, and they're not going to take your perspective seriously. So you're going to be less and less effective with what you do.
- [50:21]
B
And in general, the failure mode is to paint the world, to draw a line between good and evil.
- [50:27]
A
Yeah.
- [50:27]
B
Whether it's a line in geography, Russians, Putin is evil, or if it's Trump, Trump is evil.
- [50:34]
A
Right.
- [50:35]
B
The version of that is Hitler. So I'm a big proponent of Solzhenitsyn's famous, the author of Gulag Archipelago, that the line between good and evil runs through the heart of Every man that all of us have that in us. And yes, to be it is good to be humbled by that reality. And if you are humbled by that reality, then you're not going to see any other people as purely evil or purely good. All of that, that kind of thing is used to just, to just to hate others.
- [51:14]
A
Yeah, yeah. And even when it's unfounded, you know, even like I'm watching the Pete Hegseth the, the confirmation hearings and they, these ignorant people are going after his tattoo, not even knowing what the tattoo is and trying to pretend that it's some sort of radical hateful tattoo when it's just an ancient Christian tattoo. It's so strange. I mean that tattoo's in churches that symbols in churches. That symbol's been around for a long fucking time. It's just a Christian tattoo. And I was watching the Piers Morgan show and Piers Morgan had Michael Knowles and these two super whack and Dave Rubin and two super wacky leftist people that didn't know what the tattoo was and they were criticizing it. And Piers Morgan kept asking, what is the tattoo? What is it? Tell me what it is. And the guy would like, go on. You're not answering the question. Go back to it. What is it? Well, let's look it up. He's like, no, no, no, no, don't look it up. I want you to tell me if you're saying it's offensive. And so then the woman chimes in and Michael Knowles just clowns her, just absolutely knows the history of the tattoo, including like, you know, she's talking about it before it existed, before Islam, you know, and she's criticizing what it is. And he's like, do you understand that Islam didn't exist when this tattoo, when this symbol existed? Like it's not an anti Muslim symbol because there was no Muslims when this symbol was created. Like this is bonkers. And they're all in digging their heels in, pretending, just trying to win this conversation, just trying to win. And Piers Morgan's doing that. He's like the Jerry Springer of political ideology. Now he just has people get on the show and yell at him. Other it's very entertaining and he gets great sound bites out of it. It's kind of genius in terms of like an engagement perspective. If you looked at your show, it's just like, how do I get more engagement? Well, that's how you do it. You get some wacky leftist going to say nutty things. You get some right wing person, it's going to say nutty things. And you get them all together, yelling at each other.
- [53:28]
B
I wish he did less of that. I should say that Piers Morgan, I think, is a great interviewer. Like, he's legit a great interviewer. But he also has. He can put on his Jerry Springer.
- [53:38]
A
Hat on to making money. Listen, I mean, he does.
- [53:42]
B
I mean, he does both. He does do long form, great interviews. So that's.
- [53:45]
A
He's found his lane. All right, his lane is Jerry Springer. But he's doing a good job exposing these people. It's very valuable. Like, that conversation was very valuable for me because, like, this is adorable, watching this guy, like, flounder around trying to come up with a reason why this tattoo is so offensive.
- [54:03]
B
Yeah, but see, what I don't like about that is that guy's floundering. But there could be actually facets to that person outside of this ridiculousness. That's interesting.
- [54:13]
A
Right? You gotta cleanse that from your mind.
- [54:16]
B
They do.
- [54:16]
A
If you wanna. If you wanna be the guy who's on television talking about important issues and you've got this stupid thing in your head where you're arguing about a tattoo that you don't even understand.
- [54:26]
B
Yeah.
- [54:26]
A
You gotta cleanse that stupidity out of your fucking mind. And sometimes the best way to do that is to get clowned on television.
- [54:33]
B
Sure.
- [54:33]
A
So he got exposed, she got exposed. They both look like morons. And then Michael Knowles, who did a fantastic job of, like, smiling, never raising his voice, calmly explaining it. Have you seen it?
- [54:47]
B
No, I haven't seen it. Jamie.
- [54:48]
A
It's pretty wonderful. Michael Knowles is a pro. He's a pro. The way he handled it was remarkable. I know people criticize that guy, but fucking people criticize everybody. I'm just saying in this moment.
- [55:00]
B
Don't read the comments, Joe.
- [55:02]
A
Don't read the comments. Yeah, yeah. Even about other people. Right?
- [55:07]
B
Well, that's the thing. I think you said that you sometimes read comments from friends of yours.
- [55:12]
A
Yeah, I don't even like doing that. I try not to do that, too.
- [55:14]
B
This is the thing that bothers me about comments is I don't read them. But, like, my mom will read them and she'll. She'll text me something like, don't listen to what people say.
- [55:26]
A
My mom will send me things. Is this true? My mom. Come on.
- [55:30]
C
This is the.
- [55:30]
A
Yeah, this is it. This is wonderful. Watch this. The two people on the far right of the screen, the lady in the pink jacket and the dude with the beard, they're fucked. They got cooked.
- [55:43]
D
You could accuse Pete of as being too Alert and energetic. I found it overwhelming, actually, while I was there. Tired, trying to dust the sand out of my eyes. But you suggest that the graduate of Princeton and Harvard, who for decades has been in the US Military, served his country honorably, that he's somehow unqualified to work at the Pentagon. The most egregious accusation you make against him, though, is that he's an extremist because he has a tattoo. Could you tell us what the tattoo is?
- [56:13]
B
The tattoos specifically? I did not make the allegation that he's an extremist. It was actually.
- [56:18]
D
You repeated the allegation as an insider threat.
- [56:21]
B
Yeah. Right.
- [56:22]
D
So what's the tattoo?
- [56:23]
E
I can tell you.
- [56:23]
B
It says he was his fellow.
- [56:31]
A
What is this tattoo that you're saying? Simple question. What is this tattoo that you're so upset about? I wasn't the one upset about it.
- [56:42]
B
I was talking about his fellow colleague. This is exactly what I said. His fellow colleague.
- [56:46]
A
Do you know what it was in the US army.
- [56:48]
B
Called him out as a potential insider threat.
- [56:51]
A
What is the tattoo?
- [56:54]
B
I called him an extremist based upon his own book.
- [56:57]
A
Read the book. What is the tattoo? If you don't know what the tattoo is, just admit it. Oh, my Lord.
- [57:03]
B
Listen. What is it?
- [57:06]
A
Continually intrigued. Let the lady talk. When the lady talks, it's even more brutal.
- [57:12]
B
A woman has genuinely painful.
- [57:13]
A
Woman hasn't spoken yet. A woman hasn't spoken yet. Let her speak. A woman hasn't spoken. Spoken yet.
- [57:22]
B
I did.
- [57:22]
C
I did hear him answer it, but they were all talking over each other.
- [57:26]
A
Did I say the words?
- [57:27]
C
Yeah, they weren't talking about the cross. They're talking about a different tattoo.
- [57:30]
A
Yeah, well, she is talking about that as well. Okay, she's. But it'll go on to that actually. Know what that tattoo is or not? Listen, what I do know is I read his book and in his book, if you read the American Crusade in his. Wait a second. Be honest.
- [57:46]
B
I am. Look, this is Jerry Spring.
- [57:48]
A
No one's Donald Trump, but do you.
- [57:52]
B
Know putting our national security at risk for Pete Hexa. I'm telling you everything and you guys.
- [57:58]
A
Are finding ways to spend. Why are you guys simply asking you has an NDA with someone allegedly sexually. Do you know what? No, it goes further. See if you can find where the woman speaking because it gets even more brutal because she's incorrect and Michael Knowles corrects her. And when he corrects her, it's great.
- [58:18]
B
It's a good way to expose.
- [58:19]
A
See if you can find the other one, Jamie.
- [58:21]
B
Very narrow. I'M a change agent that's gonna be in here.
- [58:26]
C
I gotta click on where I missed the whole show. It's an hour long show. Well, they're all talking.
- [58:31]
A
Click right there. I'll know where it is. What is the. What is along. This falls along a threat.
- [58:38]
B
As an insider.
- [58:41]
A
2021 pegged Pete Hexa as a had 98 chances to answer and he failed the test. Sorry, I'm going to Michael. I'm going to Michael. Don't talk over each other. Michael.
- [58:52]
D
The tattoo in question. The tattoo in question is called a Jerusalem cross. This is a medieval Christian symbol, goes back a long time. In fact, at Jimmy Carter's funeral, there was a Jerusalem cross on the floor of the cathedral. And on the program for the funeral, there's one other tattoo that some have suggested could be extremist. It's the phrase Deus Volt, which is a medieval Christian slogan, a long traditional slogan that refers to God's will. And it goes back a long way. These are very traditional, very mainstream Christian symbols that not only are not extreme in any way, but which even the people who want to accuse him of extremism couldn't possibly name. That is pathetic.
- [59:31]
A
All right, insider Guardsman did it.
- [59:34]
B
Which is what I said. And also I said that he called himself too extreme for the US Military in his book. That's pathetic.
- [59:40]
A
Okay, so you're going to. Is Pete Hexip lying that he's too extreme in his book? Let me go to Julie.
- [59:45]
D
He's been way too extreme for radical leftist.
- [59:47]
A
Let me go to Julie. Is he. Be gentlemanly, please. We have a lady who's not spoken. Judy, be waiting very patiently your view of this. I'll tell you what, before you answer, I know you said in your substack about this. Under normal circumstances, he, Pete Hegseth would be precluded from serving in any leadership role. So explain why you. Why you said that.
- [60:11]
E
Well, let me. I will explain in one second. Let me go back to something that was said in the very beginning. That he spent more than 10 years at Fox News. And that's what qualifies him to be in this position that he wants to be in. I spent more than 10 years at Fox News. I don't think I'm qualified to run the DoD whatsoever based on my time.
- [60:27]
B
I said that was one of the.
- [60:28]
E
Things if, if you, if you. Well, I don't think that's even a remote qualification. That's one.
- [60:34]
B
Being able to communicate ideas. The Secretary of Defense and explain policy is actually a very big Part of the job.
- [60:40]
E
There are plenty. There are plenty of qualified Republicans out there who can run the DoD, who also are good on television. It does not need to be Pete Hexeth. Secondly, again, you talked about NDAs. I am bound by an NDA at Fox News. If I were not bound by an NDA and Fox News wanted to release me from that NDA, I could tell you about my time with Pete Hexseth. Unfortunately, that's not possible. But I will say that the reason that there are so many people who anonymously came forward at Fox News is that because they're also bound by confidentiality provisions, which one third of all American workers need to sign on their first day of work. And if they were to go public, they could get sued. The reason this accuser is not heard from is because, according to the New Yorker, she tried desperately to meet with Joni Ernst on the committee, and Joni Ernst turned her down. So the reason that she has not been able to come out publicly is because she has an NDA. And even privately, she could not meet with a senator on this committee who's also a rape survivor to share her story, because that rape survivor did not want to hear from a woman who was going to put her potentially in a position to vote against Pete Hexseth. Pete Hegseth has written himself while at Princeton saying that women who are passed out, if you have sex with them while they're unconscious, that's not really rape right now, the American military, was that written somewhere Tremendous.
- [62:02]
A
I don't know.
- [62:03]
B
It doesn't sound true, but. Yeah.
- [62:05]
A
Yeah. It's hard to say, but scoot ahead to where they just start discussing the tattoo. It's in the same flow. It's not that far away.
- [62:14]
B
This is definitely not a good format, though.
- [62:17]
A
No. Well, at least they're letting her talk.
- [62:19]
E
Just go have your way with that.
- [62:20]
B
Not really.
- [62:21]
E
So I don't know which soldiers you've been talking to who think Pete Hexseth is a great thing for the military. There are not. There is not one woman out there who cares about being assaulted on deployment, who thinks that this is the person that needs to be in charge of the United States military. And as for the cross that you talked about. Yes. Deus Volt, which is the cross that he has and the slogan that he has, Deus Volt is a cross, is an old Christian cross. The phrase. Excuse me, the phrase. The phrase, however, was uttered by crusaders as they were slaughtering Jews and Muslims during the Second Crusade, specifically. So it's not just a random cross.
- [62:56]
D
That isn't a true.
- [62:57]
E
It's not just a random phrase.
- [62:58]
D
That isn't true. The phrase.
- [63:00]
B
It's not true.
- [63:01]
D
The phrase was uttered after the Council of Clermont when Pope Urban II declared the Crusade. And it was actually probably Dieu le vul, but it's been rendered in Latin as Deus vult.
- [63:12]
E
Has nothing to do with slaughtering Jews.
- [63:13]
D
It has nothing to do with slaughtering Muslims because the Muslims had invaded Europe, not the other way around.
- [63:19]
E
Oh, my God. Are you really. Are you really saying that the reason the Crusade, which was sent to the Holy Land to liberate the Holy Land from whom? From Jews and Muslims. And that is the phrase.
- [63:31]
D
I'll tell you why the Crusade began. Because the Eastern emperor asked for help from the Western Pope, because the Seljuk Turks were slaughtering Christians in the Holy Land, because those lands were Christian before the Muslims invaded in the seventh century. So that's why.
- [63:45]
E
No, no, no.
- [63:45]
A
Good to know.
- [63:46]
E
Michael's pro Crusade.
- [63:47]
A
You'll get along really well.
- [63:48]
E
I'm sorry, Those. Those lands. Those. Those lands.
- [63:51]
A
No, no, keep going.
- [63:53]
E
Those lands became Christian after the first Crusade. Okay, so let's make.
- [63:56]
D
The lands were Christian. Islam didn't exist before the seventh century. What are you talking about?
- [64:04]
E
Okay, I could. Listen, listen. I can go all talking about the Crusades, but the point is, I can also. What that has to do with. What that has to do with Pete Hegseth is it's not that he has a random cross that talks about his faith in Jesus Christ. He used a very specific terminology. But putting a phrase that was first.
- [64:27]
D
Uttered to defend persecuted Christians in the Middle east, just like they're being persecuted today.
- [64:31]
E
Okay, you want to talk about.
- [64:33]
B
That's who you want as a secretary of Defense. Wonderful. Yes.
- [64:36]
E
Someone who defends.
- [64:38]
A
Julie, finish your point. Julie, finish your point, and I'll go. I'll go to Michael to 2.
- [64:44]
E
My point is that I cannot even. I cannot even believe that something the Vatican apologized for is something you're defending, which is the slaughter of the Vatican.
- [64:50]
D
Apologize.
- [64:51]
E
During the Crusades.
- [64:52]
B
What.
- [64:52]
D
What did the Vatican.
- [64:53]
B
Excuse me.
- [64:53]
E
The Vatican said the Crusade. Oh, my Jesus. You know what? Why don't you. Why don't you give me a call after this, and I will walk you through. Exactly.
- [65:00]
A
All right. Let's try and bring things back.
- [65:02]
E
Let me achieve. But if you want to talk about. But if you want to do a.
- [65:05]
A
Separate Crusades debate another time, let me bring Dave Rubin. The worst way to have conversations is worse.
- [65:11]
B
I mean, I'M getting a headache from this. Like these people all. Fuck that whole panel. I'm sorry but like you can't, you can't talk like this. Each of those individual people. I'm not sure about the second guy from even, even the woman would be a fascinating four or five hour conversation. Chill.
- [65:26]
A
You should probably have her on.
- [65:27]
B
Yeah, well, her and Michael Knowles and Piers Morgan. Yes.
- [65:31]
A
Yeah.
- [65:32]
B
This is not the right. I'm so exhausted. This. I know I can't. I'm. I'm like angry right now because I.
- [65:38]
A
Know I want play more for you. This own published a column saying sex with unconscious women isn't rape. Jesus. Imagine not just thinking that, but publishing it. Yeah, I mean, what did he actually say?
- [65:52]
C
If want to read it, we can read it.
- [65:55]
B
Well, rape and quotes intercourse bemusing yet.
- [65:59]
A
Mandatory orientation program revolved entirely around whether in an instance of sexual intercourse constituted rape. The actual instance portrayed in the skit was in fact, it was a skit, in fact, not a clear case of rape, at least not in my home state. So this is hexis saying this. In short, though intercourse was not consented to, there was no duress because the girl drank herself into unconsciousness. Both criteria must be satisfied for rape. Unfortunately, the panelists never cited any legal definition of rape. Yet the panel, all females in the session I attended, claimed that rape it was. Huh. What year was this? So are they talking about. This is what's confusing. Are they talk it says a skit and then it says they're talking about a legal definition of rape. Has the legal definition changed over the years? Like when, when was this. Is he talking about a legal definition or is he talking about his own opinion?
- [66:59]
B
Right.
- [66:59]
A
There's a giant difference between the two of them. Right? Especially if you take it something out of context. You don't know if he elaborated article for his college newspaper stating that having sex with unconscious women isn't rape because the criteria for rape isn't met. So this is in his college newspaper. So how old is he? Is he like 50? How old is Pete Hegseth?
- [67:20]
B
Yeah, he's up there. Right.
- [67:25]
A
Which is really weird to think that.
- [67:27]
C
44 college would have been around 2,000.
- [67:30]
A
Well, yeah, I remember in 2000. Ish. I remember when we were doing the podcast, there was a brief moment of time where people were talking about if a man had sex with a woman and they had both been drinking, that it was rape, that the woman could not consent because she was drunk. But the man's drunk too. Right? So it gets weird. It Gets like. We understand, like, traditionally men are pursuing women and that plying someone with alcohol is a famous thing that people do. It's kind of a weird legal thing. Come on, one more drink. Have another drink. Have another drink. And we all know that when people get drunk, they do stupid, but we don't know what happened if you're both drunk, you know. So this is what I'm getting at, is that 2000, these conversations are already being had. The question is like, is he saying this from his personal perspective or is he saying it from a legal perspective? I don't know what else was in the text. You know, I'm trying to be as charitable as possible, because if, like, more was in that, like, that's a reprehensible act. That's like, did he say anything like that, or was it just specifically talking about the legal definition? Because he said in his state. Right.
- [68:52]
C
Also says, to be clear, he did not write it himself. He published it. Oh, that's what this is. In short, he said did not publish. I'll put up on the screen. He did not or did publish such a column while he held the role.
- [69:05]
A
He did not write it himself.
- [69:06]
C
He did not write it. It was written by someone else.
- [69:08]
A
Okay, so he just published someone's opinions. Okay, that's very different.
- [69:13]
B
That's very different.
- [69:14]
A
That's very, very, very different. She said, he said that. That's not what he said at all. That. See that right there?
- [69:22]
B
I'm just so exhausted.
- [69:24]
A
That's exhausting.
- [69:25]
B
Both, like the thing about Trump with.
- [69:27]
A
Both sides, but that right there is crazy because I. My opinion of him shifted briefly when I was, you know, I was watching Daniel Negreanu, you know, the great poker player was on Tim Pool's show.
- [69:37]
B
Yeah.
- [69:38]
A
And they were talking about his shift in political ideologies. And then a lot of it came from when they were accusing Trump of saying. That thing that Obama repeated falsely during the campaign was that he was talking about white nationalists and neo Nazis and saying, there's very fine people on both sides. And Negreanu had heard that. He had heard the clip where Trump said it, where it was edited. He had never seen the full thing. And then once he saw the full thing, he was like, what the. And it immediately made him realize, like, oh, my God, they're lying. They're lying. And then he talked about how Obama repeated. This is years after Daniel had known it was false. Obama repeating it at the campaign speeches. And then Obama's sitting right next to Trump and they're joking around with Each other. Hey, pal. I know you're a neo Nazi lover, you fucking rascal. How'd you win? Like, it's so. But just what that lady did on that show. And then when we find out that Hegseth didn't actually write that, he just published it, you know, and he published it in College as a 20 year old or whatever he was.
- [70:50]
B
I think there should be also room for that lady to then change her mind and apologize. Because a lot of us parrot. A lot of us parrot, including probably you and I never. Yeah, how dare you parrot bullshit we see online.
- [71:02]
A
Yeah, of course.
- [71:03]
B
And then we should give each other room to like, yes, say I fucked up.
- [71:07]
A
But people don't want to say that. This is what they have to understand. Even people I don't like listen to me. It's. There's strength in that. It's better than digging your heels in. There's strength in saying, I was uninformed or I was misinformed, I fucked up. I've said it before. It's important to do. You got to do it. Because you can't have. You can't have an erroneous idea in your head and repeat it over and over again. You can't have an incorrect false opinion that you have defended and now you can't ever accept, even with new information that shows that it's not true.
- [71:41]
B
I should also say, because it's fucking sitting in my head on this topic, I'm probably gonna do like a five plus hour interview with Jack Weatherford on Genghis Khan. And I read his book, all right? And I don't. I'm not proud of the way I formulated my. For the fuck of it in the beginning of it in the beginning. I'm still bothered by the looseness with which I talked about rape. There is. And I don't think I have in me the eloquence or the skill to improve on that. I think in general, it's trying to find the right words. Well, here's to describe the historic, the historically accurate thing, the data that we have and then the narratives. I think the point Jack Weatherford makes is that we keep oscillating back and forth on Genghis Khan. He's one like this epic great conqueror. Like currently Alexander the Great has that good vibes all around him. Nobody talks about him as a horrible human.
- [72:46]
A
Horrible human.
- [72:46]
B
Yeah. But currently Genghis Khan has this kind of barbarian, evil, just rapist.
- [72:56]
A
Well, they're just so good at it. They were so good at murder. They were so Good at war. I mean just so uniquely good at military strategy.
- [73:04]
B
So it's, it's about. He always kept the army to about a hundred thousand. It's small, so it's a hundred thousand horses. Each soldier had five horses, so four spare horses with him. So imagine it's 500,000 horses which they.
- [73:17]
A
Use their blood to fuel them. Yeah, they, they will use that for food.
- [73:21]
B
So it's very portable. They're not bringing.
- [73:23]
A
Right.
- [73:23]
B
Logistically the whole. I mean this isn't, it's just imagine this armada moving at like you can, they can move like 50 miles a day, this entire army. And they, and they don't have to follow the roads which all the military would follow the road. So you can go around, you can surround, you can. And they did the. As you know, they can retreat, feign retreat and then attack from the sides. Yep, it's the blitzkrieg.
- [73:48]
A
That's the genius stuff.
- [73:50]
B
And a lot of people including Dan Carlin say that's the greatest military in history. It would defeat every single military including Napoleon with the muskets and everything. Yeah, they would destroy Napoleon. And then of course in the 20th.
- [74:03]
A
Century, you know they didn't defeat samurais.
- [74:08]
B
Right. But they never really fought. They did they twice they fought. But it's not real battle.
- [74:13]
A
These guys are fucking crazy. They thought they were crazy. These guys were like practicing their whole lives for one on one combat with swords.
- [74:22]
B
As far as I know they never really had a full on battle. I wish they did.
- [74:25]
A
There were some battles. There was battles on an island, one of the islands outside of Japan. But the Japanese successfully held off the Mongols and they were like one of the only civilizations to ever pull that off.
- [74:35]
B
I think one of the issues with Mongols except Kublai Khan is they were not good with water. They didn't know how to. The ship thing was not what a big mistake.
- [74:46]
A
Well, they imagine they got as good with water as they were with horses. That would have been a real problem.
- [74:50]
B
Well, a lot of things they had advantage on. Like for example, they can ride on ice and so how'd they do that? They, it's they in Mongolia, they, these.
- [74:59]
A
People like did they have different horseshoes? Did they even shoe their horses back then?
- [75:03]
B
No, I don't think so. Really? No, no, it's all like they don't.
- [75:06]
A
Have like when did they start shoeing horses?
- [75:09]
B
That's a good question. But that doesn't feel like a Mongol thing. I mean the people can ride the mounted archery. I'm sure you know about this.
- [75:19]
A
The Mountain archery is so insane. They would, they had the ability to hang off the side of the horse, so they would shoot from under the horse's neck. So they were completely defended by the horse and they were shooting arrows and their bows were £160. So you had to be insane. They said that a lot of the skeletons they find from that era, their bones are deformed because your whole body has just been pulling 160 pounds with your right arm or your left arm like your whole life. So your right side is like insanely muscled and your bones are all twisted and thicker and denser tendons and everything. Because they've been doing that since they were children.
- [76:02]
B
They were, they start out at like 2 years old. Yeah.
- [76:05]
A
Insanely formidable army. Insanely formidable. But here's something to take into consideration when we're saying about how Genghis Khan's genes were spread just right off the bat. It's all awful, all horrible. I wish no one ever got killed by anybody ever. It's all awful. All war is hell. All of it. All is hell. There was so much of it going on throughout human history that women would. There was a survival mechanism in accepting this conqueror as your new husband. When he slaughtered your husband, that's the only way your genes passed on. So these women were able. I mean, even if they said they fell in love with him, you know, even if they did marry him, even if they were happy to marry him, there was like almost an evolutionary requirement because we slaughtered each other so much that if you wanted your genes to pass on, you had to accept the slaughterer of your former mate.
- [77:07]
B
And then in modern day society we will call that rape.
- [77:09]
A
Right?
- [77:10]
B
But it's, it's a, it's. You have to use different words for that time because there is rape where as like violent rape as part of war, as part of a mechanism of terror.
- [77:23]
A
I think even as just part of society up until like a few thousand years ago or even a few hundred years ago. I think human beings, you know, like I've had a bunch of friends who've served overseas and the stories they tell from Afghanistan, especially with the child raping, is bone curdling. Like you, you blood curdling. Just like you just want to leave the room when they're talking. You don't even want to hear this. You don't think that this is happening and it's happening right now because it's an old culture. It's an old culture and it's separate from the rest of the world. It's Very remote, very difficult to access. You have warlords and herders who are living in these nomadic tribes to this day. Not much different than when Alexander the Great conquered it.
- [78:12]
B
So I should say that Genghis Khan, from everything I understand, was not progressive, but he was very pragmatic.
- [78:20]
A
This is why he allowed all religions.
- [78:22]
B
All religions, which is Thomas Jefferson, I should say, deeply admired Genghis Khan for this. The freedom of religion. And he didn't just say freedom of religion. It's freedom of an individual to practice any religion they want, which is a. It's like individualism. It's a really revolutionary, badass idea for that time, for that place.
- [78:44]
A
Well, he was. He recognized strength and the value of accepting strength and taking. And there's strength in unity, there's strength in community. If people can worship whatever they want, but all be united under one banner, it's better than dividing everybody.
- [79:00]
B
In the feminist thing that I mentioned, he would put women in power. Why is he a feminist? No, he understood that women are able to. Men conquer by better in his perspective, and women rule better because they keep a stable society. So he would do. He would marry a woman to the king of the place and then send the king off to fight the ruler to fight, knowing for sure he's going to die, but the woman is now ruling. And then there's a lot of, like, progressive things about. Like, they were allowed to show their face, especially in the. In the Persian lands where they conquered. Like, they're allowed to wear these fancy headdresses, which is, you know, they could floss a little.
- [79:45]
A
Yeah, chicks got excited about that.
- [79:46]
B
Exactly.
- [79:47]
A
New rules.
- [79:48]
B
And the other thing, you know, on the. This is the tricky thing is the Mongolian tribes, where Genghis Khan came up, by the way, came up from nothing. Father slaughtered. I mean, this is a. From nothing. They all. That was a common practice to steal wives, to steal women. Yeah.
- [80:11]
A
Well, he had one of his wives stolen and she came back pregnant.
- [80:14]
B
That was like the origin story. The origin story of Genghis Khan. Right. Is like the love of his life who was married to him for his whole life, that he proposed or he said, you're gonna. We're gonna marry. At nine years old. She was kidnapped, and he had to raise an army in order to rescue her back. That's the. That was the sort of. The split in the road. He would have been a normal Mongol, but here he has to raise an army to rescue her back. Wow. And then he realized he's really fucking good at this whole wrestling thing. But it Started with, you know, it's.
- [80:55]
A
A real love story. You know what?
- [80:57]
C
What I could find is that the horses were unshoed.
- [80:59]
A
Unshoot.
- [81:00]
C
But they did do something that this says here they use some sort of skin to cover it.
- [81:05]
A
Interesting. Allowed to dry in place in order to acquire the shape of a hoof. Perfect the technique to cover the hoof, which offered greater abilities, their armies to move faster, more efficiently than their opponents. Interesting.
- [81:16]
C
Horseshoes were around for at least 2 or 300 years before.
- [81:19]
A
Interesting.
- [81:19]
C
So they probably knew about them skins.
- [81:22]
A
That's interesting what you're saying about him developing the ability. And like, really, hey, I'm really good at this. Do you know that's exactly what happened with the Somali pirates? Do you know the Somali pirates origin story?
- [81:32]
B
No.
- [81:33]
A
The Somali pirates called themselves the People's Coast Guard of Somalia. They were defending their waters against Europeans dumping toxic waste in the ocean. They were fishermen. So they had found that these ships were dumping water and killing all their fish. And so these. We're holding them responsible. So they boarded these ships, kidnapped them and said, hey, you have to pay us. We've lost all this money from all our fish. We don't have any fish. Give us money or we'll kill these. And they gave the money and they said, hey, let's start kidnapping people. Like, this is. This is way better. And then, you know, there's obviously there's a narcotic ass aspect to it because of cat. Because the widespread use of this narcotic cat, which is like an amphetamine, that they. Is it a leaf K H A T. That's like, you know, the guy on the boat, look at me, I am the captain now. That guy's cracked out. I mean, they're all real skinny.
- [82:31]
B
And what's really important in that dynamic is who's the leader that emerges. That's the interesting thing about Genghis Khan. He became super powerful. That person could have been incompetent. Genghis Khan could have been a bunch of different people, right? He instilled one of the really revolutionary things is meritocracy, Right. By the way, he appointed his kids. Several people, including Marcus Aurelius, wrote Fancy, you know, Meditations. He. He failed as a emperor by appointing his kids. The ever before him, the five emperors all appointed based generals based on merit, right? So Genghis Khan always appointed based on merit. Who's the best person here to lead the groups? Which is a revolutionary idea for the time because it was usually based on kin, like your relationship, your brothers, your Sisters, your father, so on. That was really important. And the other thing I mentioned about the tribes, the origin story is everybody would kidnap and actual rape the women. They were still women in the Mongol Empire. As soon as he won over the entire original Mongolia, he banned. That was a strict rule. There's no kidnapping of wives. That was a rule for Mongolia. And that rule propagated everywhere.
- [83:53]
A
That's wild. It's like, this is what got us into this.
- [83:55]
B
Yeah. So. Which is one of the pieces of evidence where they're like. It's like there was a lot of cracking down on the whole rape thing, but there's a caveat of, like, well, why is there so many dead bodies where, like, the atmosphere changed.
- [84:11]
A
Yeah. Why is the carbon footprint different than the human race during the time that he was alive? But it's that it's interesting because we also have to look at things in a perspective of living in the year 1200, or what was it, 1240s? Like, what. When was he around?
- [84:26]
B
I should know this. 12 or 13.
- [84:30]
A
So.
- [84:30]
B
Yeah.
- [84:31]
A
Well, Jamie will find out. So you have to. It's very hard to do, and it's not apologizing for these people. I'm not, like, saying that we should apply the way they looked at the world today. I think the way we look at the world is infinitely better, and we're moving in an infinitely better direction. And I think we have, like, large extremes that go in one direction and things push back in the other direction too far, there's an overcorrection, and then they balance out. I think we're generally moving in a direction of a more kind, more peaceful society. I think we're better. That said, 1200 years ago, the world was hell. There was no newspapers, no one could read. Okay, where did you get your information from? You got your information from priests and from generals and, you know, you shared information. If you're farmers, you. The world was horrific. People fought with bows and arrows and cannons and catapults, and murder was commonplace. If you were 12 years old, you've probably seen a few people killed already. It was a different time to be alive. Diseases would kill everybody. There was no medicine. You broke your leg, you're dead. You know, you get infected, you're dead. It was just. The world was a very, very different place. It was so, so dangerous and so fucking terrifying. And people relied on their base instincts, and they're the. The worst aspects of humanity. They relived on that to survive, because that was all around you. You had to become a monster. If you wanted to live in monstrous.
- [86:01]
B
Times, and that's why the rule of law had to be enforced in a brutal way.
- [86:06]
A
Yeah.
- [86:06]
B
One of the really powerful things he did is protect merchants, people that traded. If you. With people that trade that, that, that on the Silk Road, you're going to get slaughtered. It's not like there's going to be a process. You get slaughtered.
- [86:21]
A
Yeah.
- [86:21]
B
In fact, one of the. One of the reasons. I hesitate to say this because people project into the future, but he slaughtered. He took Kiev and slaughtered people because they broke the rule of. I forget the term for this, but the people that are sent out to communicate before the battle starts.
- [86:43]
A
Ambassadors.
- [86:44]
B
And the ambassadors. The rule is you don't. With them.
- [86:48]
A
Yeah.
- [86:49]
B
And the Kievan residents killed them. And that's where the. You break the rule.
- [86:55]
A
Yeah.
- [86:56]
B
It's like, that's it. Then it's total war. And you had to do that. I mean, you don't have to do that, but that is one of the.
- [87:02]
A
Well, if you're living back, then you have to do that.
- [87:05]
B
And it. And then you look at like. But the result is complete slaughter. And by the way, thank you for rescuing me, for. I said a bunch of stupid shit, and you're adding more complexity and depth and nuance and.
- [87:22]
A
Well, we just got started. You know, I don't know. I love you, too. I love you to death, man. You know how you. When you begin a podcast, you know, I don't know if you. You're like this, but for me, I gotta get cooking. You know, sometimes that's one of the reasons why I like to talk to people. I like to talk sometimes, like 15 minutes even before we go on air. The danger is they're gonna say something and I'm gonna ask them to repeat it. I don't want that. So sometimes I'll come in hot and I'm like, let's just go right now. But your brain, you're. You don't know. We're gonna talk about the Mongols and rape. Right. And so then all of a sudden, you were in this very intense conversation about the responsibility you have as a podcaster, which is a crazy thing to say, but you do. You have probably more responsibility than anybody. And then this subject comes up in the middle of that, and then you.
- [88:15]
B
And before that, we were joking about ejaculating in space.
- [88:19]
A
Yeah, that's how we started it. Yeah, bro. I mean, we used to have Mo open up some of the most serious conversations this podcast ever had with a Fleshlight.
- [88:27]
B
Yeah.
- [88:29]
A
The early days of the podcast that was the only sponsor we had. So it's like, you know, this is again you reacting to criticism, right? So it's like the fear of the criticism of you yourself knowing you could have done a better job of explaining that had you prepared something. Which is really the difference between off the cuff conversations and like your actual well considered thoughts on things expressed in the best way possible. Which is what you would do if you're going to write it out, if you're going to write a substack piece about it.
- [89:03]
B
Well, one of the things I'm trying to do for myself personally, I think a lot of people have to do this, young kids have to do this, is figure out how to create a psychological framework where I'm not affected by the Internet. It sounds ridiculous to say, but you say, don't read the comments, but they come at you, they'll find their way. And I need to.
- [89:24]
A
You and me, it doesn't work. Nobody, nobody's good at it. Even Elon's not good at it. Just post and ghost, post and ghost. But post things that you think are interesting and just get out of there. Don't read stuff about yourself. Someone said this, I think was Anthony Hopkins. He was talking about someone's opinion of him. He said, that doesn't concern me. No. Was it Anthony Hopkins? I think it was, but he was like, their opinions of me are not my business.
- [89:50]
B
But let's, let's add to this little puzzle. What if a bunch of your friends say you're getting canceled online? By the way, Tucker Carlson is good at this. He doesn't read anything.
- [90:00]
A
Yeah. He doesn't even have social media. Yeah, I know. I always want to send him things. This motherfucker's not even gonna look at this.
- [90:06]
B
What if, like all your friends have read the thing, right? Like that you're. Or your parents or so on your loved ones, like. And the thing could be just a bunch of lies about you.
- [90:20]
A
Sure.
- [90:21]
B
Like what? That's a. That for me, that's a little bit of a tricky thing.
- [90:25]
A
Well, that's not something you should ignore. Right. If you want to make a statement, there's nothing wrong with that. What I'm saying is don't regularly engage in people's opinions of the product that you put out.
- [90:36]
B
Yeah.
- [90:36]
A
I don't think it's healthy for you because I think first of all does. You know, I've said this before, I'm only kind of joking, but I'm kind of serious. Most people commenting are losers. Sorry if you're doing it all the time and you're doing it in a negative way all the time. This is not everybody. There's a lot of like really well thought out commentary on YouTube videos that I see on. If occasionally I'll read someone's Instagram page and I'll read my friend's comments. Some people are brilliant, don't get me wrong. But it is a haven for fuckheads. It's a place where people can go and just try to insult people and say the most negative thing possible. And they generally, I think there's generally a lot of like dull minded people that gravitate towards the negativity. You know where that differs is Christians, which is interesting. Like a lot of like low wattage Christians are still super nice, you know, and they'll just praise Jesus and look for forgiveness, the real ones. Right. Which is a great thing that we should all aspire to.
- [91:40]
B
Yeah, like the default state is super nice.
- [91:42]
A
Yes, Default state. What you're supposed to do if you really follow Jesus teaching is like be completely non violent and be a beautiful person and love everybody like it's your brother, that's, that's what he wants. That's like, you know, and if you follow that. But there's just too many and too many disgruntled people out there that have terrible lives. You know, the most men lead lives of quiet desperation. The Thoreau line that I fucking love so dearly. It's such a great line that's so true and maybe even more true today because of the unnatural world in which we're thrust in. So not only are people doing things that they hate most of the time, but they're also engaging with their phone more than they are with people. So they're engaging in this very bizarre, non physical way that is detached from any human interaction, detached from emotions, eye contact, the feel of being with someone, the, the back and forth of a conversation between two people. Like if you and I were gonna disagree about something, if there was like some political thing or some social thing that you and I disagreed about, we could sit and just. I want to know why you think the way you think. Like I want to know like if you think a thing and I disagree with it, the first thing I want to know is, and this is not something I always had, I got way better at this in my life as I've gotten older and had more conversations with people. You gotta like absolutely know what this person thinks. Don't like attack it, don't twist it around, don't distort it, you have to kind of steel man. It. You have to be as charitable to that position as possible. And then occasionally, when you find things that you disagree with, you have to stop and you have to say, okay, here's my problem with this. And it has to be done in good faith. You have to be doing it not to win. You have to be doing it to figure out what's right. And everybody's so fucking attached to their opinions and their ideology that most of the time, most conversations are had where one person, at least on social media, one person is trying to win. You're trying to win all the time. You're playing this stupid game. It's a dumbass game where everybody's a loser.
- [93:54]
B
But we just watched the Piers Morgan thing.
- [93:56]
A
That's the same thing.
- [93:57]
B
It clearly pulled in your attention. You're aware of it. See, you love it. You're. You're the. You're part of the problem, Joe.
- [94:03]
A
Oh, 100%.
- [94:04]
B
Yeah.
- [94:05]
A
I'm a huge part of the problem. Don't get me wrong.
- [94:07]
B
Meaning you're a human being.
- [94:08]
A
Well, yeah. Well, also, like, how much do I contribute to people wasting their time? Tick tock reels like Instagram reels, Twitter things. How many fucking Twitter articles get written about every stupid thing I said? I mean, for three days, Dragon Believer was trending. It's just some wacky old lady thinks I believe in dragons, but this is just the nature of the world. I love that aspect of the Internet. I love the wacky shit.
- [94:36]
B
Yeah.
- [94:37]
A
Even the Ukraine war footage, which is horrible. What it's doing is giving you a more nuanced version of the world. And some of it's not good. Like, I watched a video today of a guy who got killed by a tiger. Well, he didn't get killed by a tiger. He got torn apart by a tiger. The wounds, man, the wounds that this guy, like, I didn't think, like, what would a tiger do to you if a tiger bit your foot? You want to say, yeah, you do. I know you did, because I'm a little curious. I'm switching over to Android buddy.
- [95:06]
B
Welcome.
- [95:07]
A
Yeah, I just have a few more steps that I have to do before I switch over. And I'm going to try to communicate only with encrypted apps. From now on. No one's WhatsApps. It's just sort of like limiting Twitter replies to registered accounts. You know, people like to do that. I'm going to try to do that. I'm going to try to use WhatsApp for everything. I was Gonna use signal.
- [95:32]
B
But, Yeah, I don't know. The people that use signal. I don't know.
- [95:37]
A
It seems too Secret Squirrel.
- [95:40]
B
I don't know what that means, but.
- [95:41]
A
Yeah, you know, like, you're a spy. Of using signal. I use it, though. I use it all the time. I don't. I mean, I'm totally being hypocritical here. What was I looking at? Oh, the tiger thing, bro. This one's rough. This one's rough. This is Tom Segura. I sent it to him today. Tom Segura and I send each other every day the worst shit that we can find on the Internet. And it has been, like, legitimately. It's been one of the worst aspects of modern life for me. It's like every fucking day, me and Tom are sending each other guys getting killed by assassins.
- [96:19]
B
Nice.
- [96:20]
A
It's every day. It's. There's so many footage, so many videos of cartel members whacking people. Like, after a while, you're like, holy, I don't know if I could do this anymore. Like, every day. Someone's getting run over by a truck every day. And you're. That's. So here it is. So this guy. They're shooting at that. Give me some volume so you can hear this. So they shot at the tigers just before this because this guy had been bitten up. And so, see, they're shooting at him right now. And the tiger's like, nah. And the tiger's just biting down on this guy. So there's. So this is what the guy looked like. This is his wounds.
- [97:11]
B
Wow.
- [97:12]
A
He's not dead, bro. Look at his head. I mean, his bone is exposed. Yeah. No, he's alive, dude. Look at his face. Watch his. Show his face. So this guy climbed into a wildlife enclosure. Those were not wild tigers. It was. They were, you know, I don't say tamed. They're not tamed. But there's some, in some way, at least minimized in their effectiveness that, you know, Our buddy Paul sent me that. Paul, Rosalie sent me.
- [97:51]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah. So this doesn't remind me of the jungle.
- [97:53]
A
Yeah.
- [97:56]
B
Our buddy Paul is fearless.
- [97:58]
A
He's a bad. Yeah, Paul, Rosalie's a bad. That guy is literally putting his money where his mouth is, where his life is, trying to save the Amazon. Like, living in it, helping people, you know, hiring people to guard it, taking people that were chopping the. The wood, chopping the trees down, and then giving them a new job to protect the trees. It's amazing.
- [98:25]
B
And feel. And he feels the pain. Like, he Literally like physically feels the pain of lost trees.
- [98:30]
A
He sent me something. I don't even know if I'm allowed to talk about it, but if, if we're not, I'll edit it out afterwards. But he sent me a video. I can't show the video, but he sent me a video of an uncontacted tribe that he discovered.
- [98:43]
B
Yeah.
- [98:43]
A
Did you send you that?
- [98:44]
B
Yeah.
- [98:45]
A
Fucking insane. Yes, just complete uncontacted tribe. Naked in the forest, hundreds of them. And they're like pushing these boats filled with bananas out to them to give them food.
- [98:59]
B
The, the reason we could probably talk about the. They, they try not to show it so that people don't show up and try to find them.
- [99:05]
A
Exactly.
- [99:05]
B
You want to kind of protect them.
- [99:06]
A
Ex. Exactly. That's why. I don't know if we could even talk about it, but he has brought up the uncontacted tribes before on the show and one of his friends was murdered by one. One of the tribes. He was. These guys drop off food to these people one day. They're like, you know what? Enough. Whap. I'm just gonna kill you. You. I don't trust you.
- [99:24]
B
Yeah, we, we hung out. We talked to a guy that works with Paul that has like a scar from, from a spear.
- [99:31]
A
Jeez. Jeez, bro. At least a hundred uncontacted groups in the rainforest. Unbelievable, man. They're living like they were living 20,000 years ago, maybe even more. You know, completely uncontacted. That is, that is to me one of the most fascinating aspects of human life today. It's not just that we're on the verge of quantum computing and AI becoming sensitive, sentient. It's a. We're coexisting at the same time with people that have a completely subsistence based lifestyle with the, the stuff that's around them. You know, stone tools, literally pointed sticks for spears that. They've been doing this for thousands and thousands of years. And they're living at the same time as smartphone addiction.
- [100:26]
B
Not only that, those people, probably their roots go. They could be the original civilization. I mean, I, I believe that there is.
- [100:34]
A
Look at that. Isn't that crazy? Look at those people. That is so wild. Taken in June, I think, man, that would be. So if you could just be a fly on the wall and observe that life like without interfering somehow. So just remotely. God, that would be so incredible.
- [100:51]
B
It would be doing what the aliens are doing right now.
- [100:52]
A
I think that is what they're doing. I think it's real similar. I really do. Yeah, I think if you just looked at the natural progression of human beings and what we're talking about with quantum computing and AI and the technological innovations that are without doubt gonna hit us like a tsunami over the next 20 years, 30 years, whatever it is, we. What are we going to become? We're going to become what they are, the same kind of thing. And if there was a planet that had something like us that's emerging and just figuring out how to split the atom and, you know, and still involved in tribal warfare, a primate that's still involved with tribal warfare but now has nuclear bombs, that's us. Also dick pics. Also, you know, also onlyfans. Also, you know, just massive social media addicts all over the entire planet while we're engaging in tribal warfare with hypersonic weapons. So they would be studying us the same way we're studying these folks. Same thing. You know, when we find out a guy got hit with a spear, like, oh, fuck. What happened? These people are crazy. Like, you got to be careful. Like, when Paul was saying that they were there and they realized that the tribe was close, like, they were starting to hear things, and they realized they were probably being hunted, and they just got the fuck out of there as quick as they could. That's terrifying. I do not want to wake up to news on my feed that Paul, Rosalie got killed by an uncontact.
- [102:18]
B
Well, he's. I mean, that guy leaps into adventure. I've gotten the chance to hang out with him, and it's great. There's. There's certain people. I haven't met many people like him on the. In the way that you've described, but also in the way where he sees Elon is a little bit like this, actually. Like, he sees the opportunity for adventure and he just leaps into it. There's not like a deep, deliberate process of strategy and planning and so on. It's just something pulls at him. And that's a really fun person to be with, but couple that with just extreme competence. Like, he's good at surviving. Yeah, he's just. He's. He's good at taking risks and good at surviving. And that's so like the uncontected tribes or the crazy shit we did in the jungle, just, like getting lost and have almost dying, all that kind of stuff.
- [103:07]
A
And he's a really nice guy.
- [103:09]
B
Super nice.
- [103:10]
A
A really nice guy. And it's just like, there's something to that. He's an actual good person. He's really doing this for a good cause.
- [103:18]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And it's not just the. The Amazon rainforest. He's also going to Africa and India and sort of trying to save nature. I mean, like. I mean, you go out hunting. The. The forest is a bit different than like, the. The Amazon rainforest. Their life is a lot different. It's like real intense. Like, there's a lot.
- [103:40]
A
You're in the middle of a soup of life when you have that much life. Just think about the amount of insects, the. But you around it. The buzzing at night. Explain that. What that sounds like.
- [103:53]
B
Yeah, it's an. It's an orchestra. I mean, it's millions of little organisms.
- [103:57]
A
And if you just dreaming. There's no silence at night.
- [104:00]
B
Oh, yeah. They're all.
- [104:02]
A
They're all screaming and. And killing each other.
- [104:06]
B
Yeah.
- [104:07]
A
And it's all. Life eats life all around you. It's life eating life.
- [104:11]
B
And with one. One of the ways to experience that is the sound. The other way is just standing there. Stuff starts crawling on you pretty quickly. So. And you get.
- [104:22]
A
Did you get bit by a bullet ant?
- [104:24]
B
No, but, you know, step very close to it. There's a lot.
- [104:28]
A
I mean, I want to get bit by one in.
- [104:31]
B
In the context here. I would love to get bit by one.
- [104:34]
A
Would you do it on the podcast if we brought in bullet ants?
- [104:37]
B
Let's go. Yeah.
- [104:39]
A
So to take a day off of everything else. I think.
- [104:42]
B
What are you.
- [104:43]
A
I think you do. I think you don't want to be interviewing some person about AI just sweating. Just sweating and agony. I think everybody likes to think they have, like, super high pain tolerance. You know that about men. It's fun. Men always like to think, oh, man, I got fucking crazy pain tolerance.
- [105:00]
B
Meanwhile, don't women have a much higher.
- [105:03]
A
You know, is the highest. Redheaded women.
- [105:06]
B
Oh, that explains a lot.
- [105:11]
A
This is up for debate, but I sent Jamie something recently. Do you remember that thing I sent you? So we were talking about on the podcast multiple times. Because I had read that, that they had a higher payment threshold. I'm like, that's weird. I wonder why. Well, well, because everybody's been with gingers forever. They've been beating their ass. They're like an MMA guy who's got two older brothers. You know, they're. They can take it. The scariest MMA fighters have older brothers who used to beat them up because they're ready to throw down all the time. Like the scariest guys or. Or abusive stepdad. Those two. Yeah, that makes a scary guy or abusive father. The guys that I know that are the fucking scariest. They had abusive dads. They had people that beat them up when they were young, and they just get fucking used to go and just ready to go. They don't have a fear of going. They want to go. They want to go all the time. Let's fucking go. Like they've just been. That's the only way to survive. If you're a kid and you have a brother who's 4 years old and your dad is a raging alcoholic, and he beats your mom in front of you, and your brother beats your ass, too. Like, man, you better be hard or you're not gonna make it. There's no pillow to cry into. And you got to fight your brother. He's four years older than you. He might knock you out today. He knocked you out last week. He laughs at you when you're on your back.
- [106:24]
B
Yeah. I mean, not to return to the topic, but Genghis Khan murdered his older brother because he was picking on him.
- [106:31]
A
Because he stole his fish.
- [106:32]
B
Stole his fish?
- [106:33]
A
Yeah. He said you shot him with a bow and arrow. The mom freaked out.
- [106:37]
B
Yeah.
- [106:37]
A
Called him a monster. Yeah, she was right. Well, also, you learned how to kill your brother when you're, you know. Was he six, wasn't he?
- [106:46]
B
Yeah, something like.
- [106:47]
A
Something like that. Yeah.
- [106:48]
B
Like, gets married at nine.
- [106:49]
A
Yeah. You're getting off on the wrong foot.
- [106:53]
B
And conquers an Empire at 16.
- [106:55]
A
But they didn't expect you to live past 30. You know, if you got to 30, you were an old fuck back then.
- [107:00]
B
Meanwhile, he lived, like, into his 60s.
- [107:02]
A
Yeah, he lived really long. And he was consulting with monks because he was trying to figure out how to live longer, how to live forever. He was like, you know, he felt the iron ebbing from his blood. He felt the body weaken, and he wanted to visit today beyond trt be great.
- [107:19]
B
His kids are kind of disappointing. I mean, this, like.
- [107:23]
A
Well, of course, yeah. Isn't that always the case? That's the thing. Like, show me a man who is a great man, who's the son of a great man.
- [107:32]
B
It's tough.
- [107:33]
A
It's tough. It's a hard road. I mean, you have to have a very exceptional father who recognizes the requirements that this kid is going to go through. If you're fucking Genghis Khan's son and meanwhile you're also running an empire, like, raising kids is. It is a very involving thing, and it's a nuanced thing. And you have to know which ones to push and which ones to just let them be themselves, which ones to support, which ones to encourage and how to encourage and how to how to, how to instill discipline, how to show them how important it is to feel the pain of loss and to feel like failure and to understand that this doesn't make you a bad person. These are just the lessons of life and the energy that comes with doing something well and throwing yourself into something and finding success versus half assing your existence and feeling filled with misery and regret. And that's a difficult thing when you're sleeping on silk sheets. You know, that was like what Marvin Hagler used to talk about. Like, you know, it's hard to get up in the morning and run when you're sleeping in silk sheets. He was talking about the pull of. As you become successful boxers get softer and it's because they start getting rich, you know, and then, you know, just chill a little bit. Well, if you have a son then, and the son's growing up rich and you're chilling like, man, like, you want to make a conqueror. You want to make a, you want to make a champion fighter. Give them a rough childhood. I don't think you should do it. Definitely shouldn't be mean to your kid just so they could be a badass fighter.
- [109:10]
B
Well, I think it's also, there's probably a balance you can hit, but a lot of these folks, because they had nothing, they want to spoil their kids, they go too far in the other direction. Yeah, it's not, it's harder to be a strict parent.
- [109:24]
A
I think Mitzi Shore used to ignore Paulie just to make him funnier. She talked about it. She talked about ignoring him when he was crying. Yeah, it'll make him funny. She was right.
- [109:36]
B
Yeah.
- [109:37]
A
She knew what she was doing. But it's like to do that. If you're a conqueror and you came up from shooting your brother with a bow and arrow and then raising an army to take back your wife and then you have children and your children are born when you're 40, you know, and you've, you've got this insane empire that's like one of the most spectacular and impressive military accomplishments. If you just look at, in terms of just like the sheer numbers of human beings they sent into the reincarnation cycle. It. It's a crazy number, man. They killed somewhere between. I think the estimates are 50 to 60 million people over the course of his lifetime. 10% of the population of Earth.
- [110:28]
B
Yeah. And they, you know how by brutal.
- [110:32]
A
One on one contact, bows and arrows fire, catapults, swords, spears trampled.
- [110:45]
B
And through all of that, it doesn't seem like power corrupted the Guy. So he was, he was big on unmarked grave. No statues were allowed to be made of him. No paintings, no anything.
- [110:56]
A
Not just that they killed everybody that was involved in it.
- [110:59]
B
Yeah.
- [111:00]
A
The people that went to bury him, another group came out to kill them. And then another group came out to kill the people that killed them. They came in three waves so that no one would have any idea where Genghis Khan is buried. And we still don't know.
- [111:17]
B
You know, that's one of the qualities of. There's a perception of Zelensky sort of the actor, the showman, all that kind of stuff. Some of that is true, but in his interactions that I'm aware of with the soldiers, there is no like he wants to be on the exact same level, sleep on the same bunks, no glamour, none of that, which I personally admire in a leader in general. Just walk amongst us.
- [111:39]
A
It's a very admirable thing. I mean, if you're going to ask people to leave, could you imagine if Biden was at the front line? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. You maybe see Kamala Harris at the front line in Afghanistan. Could you see that? Did you see Obama at the front line? No. You see Trump at the front line? Fuck out of here. 78 years old, leave him alone. It's a very admirable thing. And if, you know, that's the thing. If people have always said the number one concern that people have with the military industrial complex is sending young men to die in a war that's unnecessary for profit while you are in an air conditioned office. Right. That was during Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Who was it? McGovern? Did McGovern say that? But it was a very powerful speech. He said, I'm tired of watching these old men in air conditioned offices send young men to die in these unnecessary wars, actually. So if you're willing to be out there too, that's a very different thing. That's a very different thing.
- [112:47]
B
I mean, some people make the argument that a president should moderate how much they do that because you could die. You could die. But also wears on to make compromise decisions. In the realm of geopolitics, in the realm of war, you have to have a bit of coldness. If you really feel the pain of soldiers, you may make unwise decisions.
- [113:12]
A
In terms of diplomatic decisions, yes.
- [113:15]
B
In terms of, for example, you've seen a lot of people die, children die. And if you've seen enough, there's no. The idea of quote, unquote, peace is a dirty word.
- [113:27]
A
Right.
- [113:28]
B
Like you want justice.
- [113:30]
A
Isn't that a problem right now? Not just in Ukraine, but also in Gaza?
- [113:35]
B
Yeah.
- [113:35]
A
I mean, that this is the thing that the, the sheer number of people that die, that, that had nothing to do with it is crazy. It's crazy. I think the most recent estimate, and they don't even know because there's so many people that are under rubble. The most recent estimate was somewhere north of 60,000 people. And how many of them are kids? Like, what's the number of kids that have been killed by missiles that had done nothing wrong? Like, what's that number? And those kids have families, and those kids have mothers and brothers and sisters and some people that lived and some people that died, and whoever makes it out of that. You want to radicalize somebody, you want to radicalize somebody to just want nothing but revenge. I can think of no better way. No better way.
- [114:32]
B
And here Donald Trump was tasked with going in there, trying to make peace. I think I'm pretty optimistic about just knowing the skill set of all the people involved in Israel, Palestine, in Russia, Ukraine. I'm pretty optimistic about.
- [114:48]
A
I can't believe those people, those hostages are still alive.
- [114:51]
B
Yeah.
- [114:52]
A
How many of them are still alive now?
- [114:54]
B
I don't know what the exact numbers are, but it's crazy that the. They were not freed sooner.
- [115:00]
A
The whole thing's horrible from top to bottom, including all the people that have decided what happened, people that are saying it was definitely a false flag, like, or. These things are complicated. These things are complicated. It's definitely like whenever something horrible happens and someone up, like, someone up. Israel is the most protected place on earth. It's one of the most secure countries on earth. For them to let something like that happen is just a huge fuck up. But what I had heard was that there was also a lot of troops that were stationed near where there were protests. So there was a lot of protests about Netanyahu before October 7 happened, which most people aren't even aware of. There was hundreds of thousands of people in the streets protesting Netanyahu before October 7th. So then October 7th comes and then, and all of a sudden now whenever you have any sort of military engagement, any sort of, you're at war right now when those things happen. One of the first things that happens is all the protests and all the bullshit stops because now a bunch of people got killed. And when anything like that happens and you are now involved in a countrywide assault on this other country, everything else gets put aside. And so the big conspiracy fear has always been when a leader knows that they're going to get pushed out, they'll start a false flag or start a war. So they look at October 7th and they say they let that happen or they say they had knowledge of it. They knew it was going to happen. They knew it, but they wanted an excuse to raise Gaza. They wanted an excuse to just have a full on bombing campaign against Hamas.
- [116:48]
B
I mean, you definitely need to look at the incentives there. That is one of the concerns in Ukraine for, for President Zelensky, the, the, the prospect of ending the war. Because right now the country is unified. If you end the war and you have elections now, you have to face a lot of the consequences internally about the potential discovery of corruption.
- [117:09]
A
Right.
- [117:09]
B
About the suspension of democracy, about all these things. And the same thing with, with Netanyahu who by the way, also I, they want to do a three hour podcast and so for, with me, I talked to him before October 7th for an hour. I, I regret talking to him for an hour. One of the things I really learned a lot from you and from just myself, you can't, you can't do. One of the things I really don't like what happened with me talking to Donald Trump is like 40 minutes with Donald Trump. Yeah, like, it, it was a mistake. They didn't really.
- [117:44]
A
There was a. I was almost willing to do that with Kamala Harris.
- [117:47]
B
Well, comma, is the painting.
- [117:48]
A
I was entertaining. The 45 minute one. I was entertaining because I was like, maybe if I could just come in at a 10, just like work my brain up, like really come in and just engage with her real quick. I just wanted to get, I wanted to get loose. I don't. The problem is like, I want to see how you are as a real person.
- [118:08]
B
I think actually genuinely with you and Kamala Harris, I think 45 minutes is horrible, but I think you're so skilled and like compassionate. Just like it's fun, fun to talk to you. I think you would just end up being much, much longer. That's, that's the hope.
- [118:23]
A
If that's the hope. Yeah. There would be questions though, and some questions would be very complicated. Like the immigration question. Like I would say, what's happening? Like, what is happening? Do you think that there should be limitations to this? Do you think it should be stopped alt right? Do you think we should round up all the people that we know that are terrorists that made it across? Are we keeping track of them? Do we know how many? Do we know what happened? Do we know why it happened? Why are people opposed to the Idea of cracking down on border patrol, making more, you know, making more soldiers available, putting walls up everywhere. Like, what is the reason to not do this? Like, tell me what you're thinking. And when people start talking about labor, they talk about bringing in labor and that our population is lower. Like, Chuck Schumer brought that up. Talk about, like, we need workers. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What are we saying? We don't. Is there. Is that really what the problem is? That Americans aren't willing to do jobs and you want to bring in illegal people? How about just make legal immigration easier for poor people that are trying to get over here? How about just scan them, screen them, make sure that they're not fucking murderers, make sure they're not cartel members, and then let them in easier. Like, wouldn't that be a better way to do it, to vet people? But the idea of not vetting people just doesn't make any sense at all. That would have been a problem. That conversation would have been a problem, because it doesn't make any sense at all. And I'm a grandchild of immigrants. I believe in immigration. I think America is the fucking shining light in the world. Like, if you can get here, you can actually make something happen. There's not a caste system they actually reward people from. You know, started from the bottom. Now we're here. Like, that's a thing here. Although that's Drake. He's Canada. But it's that. That. That thought.
- [120:08]
B
That's going to be America soon, right?
- [120:10]
A
Yeah. We're going to take over Canada for sure. Yeah. That needs to happen. Yeah. 51st state. Let's go. Puerto Rico's next. You got to become a real state now. Puerto Rico's got a weird thing where you're allowed to not pay taxes, but you can't vote. You know that deal? That's the Peter Schiff deal, you know? Yeah. You don't vote, but you don't pay federal income tax. Like, all right, I feel like. Think you're gonna go to jail someday. I think one day they're gonna pull you inside and go, we changed that rule, and you owe us $4 billion in back taxes, you criminal. What are you doing out here hanging out on this island? Just stealing money.
- [120:50]
B
But, yeah, we definitely need legal. Legal immigration. The idea of bringing, like, the best people in the world here.
- [120:55]
A
Yeah.
- [120:56]
B
But also, Mark Andreessen talks about this. Like, we need to make sure we recruit, like, the Midwest, the farm boys.
- [121:04]
A
Yeah.
- [121:05]
B
Get them to, like, do epic Shit inside. You know Americans.
- [121:09]
A
Well, hey, here's step one. Ramp up the fucking education system.
- [121:13]
B
Yeah.
- [121:14]
A
Jesus Christ. At what point in time do we not say how far do we have to slip down the list of like the best performing students in the world before someone comes along and says, hey, the whole thing about this place is if our kids are losers, they're going to grow up to become loser adults, make it way easier to be a winner. What's the best way to do that? Have a way better education system. Just imagine, imagine if they completely revamped the education system in this country, just poured a shitload of money and had the wisest minds come up with a brilliant strategy for more creative ways of approaching learning. Pushing people into viable pathways that maybe didn't even exist when the education system was structured. Because things have changed so much in the world. You could probably do a way better job than we're doing, which would make people come out of that. They would emerge better qualified people. So we would get more shit done in America. So America would prosper overall. The GDP would grow. The fucking. Everything would be better. You'd have less poverty, you'd have. This is, that's where they need to start. It's not just let in all the immigrants. How about fix what we got here and then expand that outward, like make this place the best it can be and then expand that idea out to the rest of the world. So instead of like letting everybody walk here from third world countries because third world countries suck, expand what's better out to the rest of the world.
- [122:47]
B
And a big part of that is actually culturally changing, accepting, celebrating, venerating meritocracy. Like the guy in the class. See, I, you know, having gone to school in the Soviet Union, like I was good at math and I was actually, believe it or not, super cool because I was good at math in class when I was like, like I was the cool kid because I was good at math. Like I was getting like in America, had a girlfriend when I was young.
- [123:14]
A
Isn't that fun? But no, no, no, I think it's wrong. I think they're wrong. You should. But I think they're wrong because. But it's a fascinating thing to make fun of the smart kid.
- [123:25]
B
Yeah, it's, it's.
- [123:26]
A
I mean, especially math. Look at that robot over there.
- [123:29]
B
Science. But actually, just isn't that weird? But honestly, even, yeah. I mean, in all walks of life, sports is a little better. We do celebrate great athletes. But there's still kind of this, the participation trophy thing. There's still a kind of sense where we want to help the people that aren't quite as good at a thing.
- [123:50]
A
That's only with little kids. Kids, though.
- [123:52]
B
Sports.
- [123:53]
A
Sports are.
- [123:53]
B
But it's one of the. How little. Like sports.
- [123:58]
A
Once kids get into like the teenage years. Sports is a meritocracy.
- [124:02]
B
Yes, but culturally, do we really say, like, this is. Like, this is amazing that this person is winning? Yeah, we do get.
- [124:11]
A
I want to take you to a Texas football game.
- [124:13]
B
With Texas, it's different. I mean, Texas is.
- [124:15]
A
This is what America should be. This is what America should be. They should all that. It should all be fired up.
- [124:21]
B
But not just about football.
- [124:23]
A
No, but all kinds of things.
- [124:25]
B
Everything. Music.
- [124:26]
A
Here's the problem. Football, like physics. Quarterbacks get laid. All right, that's a handsome guy.
- [124:31]
B
That's what I'm trying to tell you.
- [124:32]
A
Okay.
- [124:34]
B
Physicists used to the Soviet Union will get a lot of pussy.
- [124:37]
A
What about Feynman?
- [124:39]
B
Well, he got. Yes. Yeah, but he's another.
- [124:41]
A
All those guys were freaks, right? Oppenheimer, you saw the movie. He was a freak. Those guys were studs because they were the smart people. And there was a lot of grad students that wanted to fuck the professor. And that was normal stuff back then.
- [124:53]
B
But I don't know if they were studs in the general population.
- [124:57]
A
They were studs in a way. They were like, look, Einstein was a national hero, right? There's no one like that today. There's no one scientist that's at groundbreaking research of theory of relativity where everybody's aware of it. There's nothing like that today.
- [125:13]
B
We celebrate people like maybe like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, who are communicators of science.
- [125:17]
A
Yeah, but not to the same extent. He's criticized way more than Einstein ever was. Einstein was pretty celebrated. It's just. And even Feynman, like, for the people that knew him, like he was a cultural figure. He wasn't an obscure name. Like if you brought up Richard Feynman. Most people that, like, watch the news and read newspapers probably know who he is if they were in their 30s. That's not the case today for, you know, say someone who's groundbreaking research with AI or someone who's involved in quantum computing or just. This is just a few of these science communicators, you know, Brian Cox, like, guys like him were great at it when in terms of like space, you know. And some guys are better at it in terms of like talking about AI or talking about all he does, just all the different emerging technologies because there's so many of them. But there's no one person who's like our. Other than Elon. But Elon's like such a unique character. You can't even like, you can't put him in the same category as an Einstein because he's just like a cultural weirdness. Like, who is this guy, like making memes, cracking jokes, dunking on people, telling people to go fuck themselves? Buys Twitter. You know, it runs a bunch of different companies simultaneously while playing video games constantly. It's like it's. That doesn't fit in anywhere else. That's like a very unique thing that exists. This Elon Musk guy, like, he's one of the most unique human beings in all of history.
- [126:48]
B
But you can even move to like, even the Jeff Bezos, who, by the way, successfully launched the first rocket yesterday to orbit.
- [126:58]
A
Yeah.
- [126:59]
B
Which is. Which is incredible.
- [127:00]
A
Amazing.
- [127:00]
B
Even he is. Gets like. I think that's. That should be. That should be venerated.
- [127:06]
A
Sure. But he's not the guy that's making the. He's not doing the calculations and designing and engineering the machines like Wernher von Braun was. So it's like what we're fascinated by today is different. It's like we're fascinated by these public figures that talk about the work that's going on, but the people that are actually doing it. There's not like one standout.
- [127:28]
B
Although to say both Jeff Bezos and Elon are legit good engineers. To see them on the construction floor. They know what they're doing.
- [127:35]
A
Yeah, for sure. But like, the thing about Elon is weird. It's like he just has so many things you get. You get confused. Like, how can you do this? And I was talking about possibly buying TikTok. Like, I wonder if they would go after him if he did that. Would that be like a minute? But Bezos, or rather Zuckerberg rather, they bought Instagram, right. So they have Facebook and Instagram.
- [127:56]
B
Right.
- [127:56]
A
And then like, why couldn't you have TikTok and Twitter?
- [128:00]
B
What are you talking about? Monopoly wise?
- [128:01]
A
Yeah.
- [128:02]
B
Oh, yeah. I don't think they'll go after. They're trying to split up Google right now. Alphabet really like to make maybe Chrome or YouTube its own business.
- [128:12]
A
Mmm.
- [128:12]
B
I think there's an argument. There's some argument. But like they.
- [128:17]
A
The crazy thing about YouTube is how effective it is. Right. Like YouTube is just think. It's like. Seems so straightforward. Just have a place where people can upload videos. Okay. That's straightforward. Everybody should be able to make one of Those, by the way. No, there's just one.
- [128:32]
B
Really hard to actually pull that off on the engineering side to be able to like. Yeah, just there's. There's just no other place like it to be able to host that much data.
- [128:40]
A
The scale, just the volume, the volume of data that comes into their site every day.
- [128:48]
B
Yeah, it just. And then there's people, of course online sort of criticizing YouTube for censorship, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, they should. But like, hey, more people need to be like this, this fucking thing exists. It's like wi fi on the airplane. It's like, this is incredible. There's no other platform like YouTube in terms of like the set of features, the community they create, the search and discovery.
- [129:10]
A
Yeah.
- [129:11]
C
Do you think Apple regrets having it one being one of the first built in apps on the iPhone that could have had a lot to do with the growth.
- [129:17]
A
Well, definitely did.
- [129:18]
C
I'm sure they didn't make it, but they included it.
- [129:21]
A
Right.
- [129:22]
C
Also Google Maps was too, until they made their own.
- [129:24]
A
Well, I mean you probably want to have the best shit on your phone if you want people to buy it. You're kind of trapped. Everybody knows YouTube is the best. And if you get YouTube on an Android phone natively, instantly, which you can, when you get an Android phone, it already has YouTube loaded onto it. Why wouldn't you load it on an iPhone? Everybody uses YouTube. You got to pick your battles.
- [129:44]
C
It was 2007 though.
- [129:46]
A
That's true.
- [129:48]
C
Can only have three minute videos.
- [129:49]
A
You're right. They probably didn't realize how big YouTube is going to be. Right. But what they did do, that's the sneakiest thing that drives me crazy is the 30%. So like if you start an app, you put an app in the App store, the Apple store 30, they get 30%.
- [130:05]
B
Like that's crazy because YouTube dominates so much. If people get censored, that's really painful. Like that, like that's not.
- [130:14]
A
Well, they're so. They're so in control of the video market.
- [130:18]
B
Yeah.
- [130:18]
A
And you know, I don't envy it. It's got to be an insane place to try to manage. But it's just kind of wild that no one else has been able to come up with anything even remotely close. You know, you've got Rumble. They do really well. But it's like Rumble's like a, like a very conservative Ivermectin using libertarian sort of space.
- [130:39]
B
The opposite of blue sky. Like blue skies.
- [130:41]
A
Like, exactly. But there's a lot of like left wing shows on Rumble. Rumble is essentially like a legitimate free, free speech platform. They don't censor left wing views, you know, isn't breaking points. Are they on Rumble?
- [130:56]
B
I watch them on YouTube.
- [130:57]
C
Twitch for a while though was kind of close. And then Amazon.
- [131:01]
A
Right, right. Twitch was close. I mean, but then when Amazon bought it, it's something like Twitch kind of disappeared.
- [131:06]
C
It's still a thing, but it doesn't make money. It's not profitable, which arguably neither is YouTube but once.
- [131:11]
A
But isn't that crazy? Like if they didn't buy, maybe it would have been because Twitch was huge.
- [131:15]
C
It still is.
- [131:16]
B
Really?
- [131:17]
C
Yeah, I mean that's all. That's what kids watch.
- [131:19]
A
But a lot of kids, they stream everywhere now. Right. And there's a bunch of like. Is video games different? Like a bunch of different.
- [131:25]
C
Twitch became more. It was just in TV and it's kind of reverted back to it now. Like most of the popular stuff is IRL streaming. People walking around, going places, doing shit, streaming going, you know, doing nonsense.
- [131:37]
A
It's so weird. And so what are the video games streamed on? What does everybody.
- [131:42]
C
It's still that. There's been a few other ones that have tried. People like YouTube tried to do it. Facebook tried to do it. Microsoft tried to do it.
- [131:48]
A
It didn't work.
- [131:49]
C
Twitch is still.
- [131:50]
B
I watch video game streams on YouTube.
- [131:53]
C
Still a few there. Twitter's now tried to do it, but like the Microsoft one went away. YouTube doesn't really advertise the live streaming stuff very well. You can find it, but it's so.
- [132:04]
A
So essentially it's just Twitch for video games.
- [132:08]
C
It's dominant for sure.
- [132:09]
A
Dominant. Okay, so Twitch didn't go away. I'm just old, so it's. I thought there was a bunch of new ones that were good though that people were using.
- [132:18]
C
Took off.
- [132:19]
B
Yeah, it's not.
- [132:20]
C
Everyone sort of went back to Twitch after that.
- [132:22]
A
So was that a deal where they like get like a famous streamer and they say, hey, we're gonna give you money to come over this new platform. Then they try to start the platform.
- [132:29]
C
Yeah, that's a good idea. You buy everyone to come over and hopefully everyone sticks. Just didn't stick.
- [132:34]
A
Just think about the resources you would have to have if you wanted to take on YouTube. Like, look, if Elon had decided like, okay, we need to turn X into the new YouTube.
- [132:45]
B
Well, he kind of wants to do that, right?
- [132:47]
A
Yeah. Which is kind of what he. But if you wanted to start a separate app because Twitch, or excuse me, X is still mostly people exchanging information, mostly exchanging Hyperlinks.
- [132:59]
B
The closest thing it's too is like TikTok on the video. The short video clips is good. So I can see actually Elon buying TikTok. It makes total sense and integrating into X. Yeah. But in terms of long form content, it's just not quite there because you have to implement all of these features and it is engineering wise, really difficult to have that much video.
- [133:23]
A
You can, we can up. We upload hours at a time. Yeah, hours. So think about it. Like each one of our shows is at least two hours, three hours mostly. That's so much data. If you're letting everybody do that. How much are you paying for bandwidth? Like, what is that? Like, because it's free. And then you have to get ads and you have to like put. And then the ads, like, hey, we don't want anybody saying, oh, all right, put up a filter. Get rid of all the fuck so that Paul Mollev can sell their fucking hand soap. Whatever it is. Whoever's getting upset at us. Oh, did someone talk about the vaccine? Yeah, you can't get an ad because we're trying to sell vaccine ads. So don't be a cocksucker. Don't ruin my giant business that I've created on your data.
- [134:06]
B
But it is surprising that nobody's built a competitor.
- [134:09]
A
Not even close.
- [134:10]
B
And it just shows how incredible the teams are. Right?
- [134:12]
A
Well, they, they nailed it. This is what they did. They made the perfect algorithm to constantly show you things you're interested in. You know, when I go to my YouTube feed, they're right. Every day. Every day they're right. I'm like, oh, I'm interested in that. Oh, when was that built? Oh, look at that. Oh, is that real? This is what they got me every fucking day.
- [134:33]
B
Yeah. I actually tweeted complaining a little bit about YouTube recently and we had a whole meeting.
- [134:38]
A
What were you complaining about?
- [134:40]
B
So they have this incredible. I don't want to complain about wi fi on the airplane before saying the positive. So they have this incredible feature called MLA Multi Language Audio. I don't know if you know about this, but you could have multiple tracks of audio for a single podcast, a video in different languages. So I had to do that for Zelensky interview. That's overdubbed into three languages for the different.
- [135:03]
A
Did you use AI to do that or do you hire people?
- [135:06]
B
So did both, but in this case we did AI because of the voice cloning, you want. There's something really intimate and powerful about hearing the person speak in that language. And I've just found out that, you know, for example, on audio, people listen to the Zelensky interview. He's. It's dubbed into English, he's speaking Russian or Ukrainian. They listen and they enjoy it. Like, they, they, you could see the numbers. You could see how they write to me. Personal messages, how they, you know, on Instagram stories. They're listening to it in English, right. And they're able to listen to it for a prolonged period of time. Like it's in English.
- [135:43]
A
Did you review it and listen to it, make sure the context translates correctly? Yeah.
- [135:49]
B
So I should give a shout out to a company called 11 Labs that do the voice cloning, that do the translation and this, what's called text to speech. They're incredible people. Not just the product. Actually, there's certain companies that I work with. Nothing frustrates me more than incompetence and nothing excites me more than competence. Like, they're just sweet people, by the way. Like, stayed up crazy hours through the holidays. A lot of big companies, like take like two months off. They're just, there's, you know, they're nine to five. They're all very polite. There's a manager of a manager and there's meetings and it's slow and there's this bureaucracy. And with, with 11 labs, with a lot of startups, good startups, you, like, have this just vibrancy and kindness and everybody's excited, all that kind of stuff. Anyway, they do the, the text to speech. You know, you have like text on the page that you can speak in the Joe Rogan voice. I mean, you're aware of this. So if you want to translate, you first translate the, transcribe the original language, translate it on the page and then text to speech, bring it to life in that other different language. The translation step is the tricky one, is the hardest one, where a human should correct and help. I got, I mean, we had very little time to do this. We had to do it really rapidly, but you get into trouble. So for example, he said, how much.
- [137:19]
A
Time did you have?
- [137:22]
B
I don't, don't remember the exact number of days, but probably five or six days to do everything. So.
- [137:28]
A
In three languages.
- [137:29]
B
In three languages. And he and I did the thing which is we kept switching languages sentence to sentence. Oh, no, because we, we kept. And like. And he would swear in Russian mid sentence. So of course the translator is like sweating because the most of the sentence is Ukrainian. And then he says, or go yourself. He swore a lot. Like, you know, that that part would be In Russian, the, the swear. So you have to catch all of that. You have to not make mistakes. And some of it there was AI in the loop we had to figure out, because nobody really has done this kind of thing before. So we had to figure it all out. And mistakes can be made when you're rushing like this. Rushing like this. Like I just did, by the way, me saying that could be transcribed into me saying Russian and translated like that. So, for example, we said he was talking about corruption, sensitive topic. He said something like, anybody who we caught doing something with the weapons or being corrupt, we would beat. The exact term is beat them on the hands here. Speaking Ukrainian, which in Ukrainian means we'll crack down on them. That was automatically translated to slap them on the wrist, which, which makes sense as a direct literal translation.
- [138:52]
A
Right?
- [138:52]
B
Beat them on the hand, slap them on the wrist. Makes sense. But like, and I didn't catch it. I'm not sleeping, I'm like reading it. I speak all the languages. So, like, I'm trying to, like, figure out this puzzle. And we didn't catch it. And then of course, like, a lot of people got really mad and they, they spoke up, you know, the, that, you know, the Internet in general is like, how can you translate this? Are you. Of course, it must be because I'm a Putin shill, I'm getting funded, that I'm not translating. But yeah, that's. You see, it's very. There could be sensitive moments. Like, you had a lot of really high profile figures here. There could be sensitive moments, if translated, could do a lot of damage. On the flip side, it makes it accessible, especially for important conversations. It makes it accessible to people that really need to hear it.
- [139:39]
A
Why were you under such a time constraint?
- [139:43]
B
Because the seriousness of the conversation, like every single day there's major missile launch.
- [139:51]
A
So did you, you didn't have a five day deadline. You just. It took you five days to do it.
- [139:56]
B
Yes. And the. I don't want to sort of put it on them, but the President Zelensky's office was asking, like, when this is coming out. They were really pushing it and they were implying, probably correctly, that there's just going to be a lot of dynamic stuff happening on the, on the peace negotiations. So he wanted to use this as a statement and the same, because, you know, the, the Kremlin watched it, so everybody's watching it and like, it's part of the puzzle pieces that they're using to figure out when are we going to meet, when are we going to. What are Going to be the outlines of a treaty. You know, so like, you have to take it very seriously. But then, you know, I've learned a lot because I. You need to probably hire more and trust everybody involved and turn it around much quicker. You know, like, you know me. But in terms of production, everything the team is one person. And then there's now folks helping with. Helping with editing, but it's just tiny team. There's no. And so for things like this, you have to take it seriously. You have to like, maybe have like a special. Special force team that kind of steps up.
- [141:12]
A
Right. Helps. Right. A group of people that are translators that you could really count on to get it right. Because a lot of them do it. But you would want to have to personally review it anyway.
- [141:23]
B
100. But that you want the translators you trust to do a good job. And one of the things we'll learn really quickly is you can't just get any translator there. I mean, translation is an art. It truly is. And like, people were. They were translating it. It's like, open my comedy.
- [141:38]
A
Right?
- [141:39]
B
It really like.
- [141:40]
A
Right, right, right.
- [141:41]
B
Like you think even the same joke in the mouth of different comics would just be way different. And the way they were translating it was cold. They were missing the points. They were not understanding the context.
- [141:55]
A
The AI Way is genius.
- [141:57]
B
Yeah. Yeah. But the translation piece of the AI is still needs the human in the loop. It needs the human to fix it.
- [142:04]
A
And how does the human emphasize emotion? Like if he has a specific intonation. If the way he's, like, he's talking about. How does the. How does AI know how to say the words in translation and which ones to emphasize?
- [142:22]
B
So this is where 11 Labs is really incredible. But it uses the actual words to figure out the intonation.
- [142:29]
A
So the. Okay, so the translation of the words or the original word, hearing the word.
- [142:35]
B
No, it's always working on the text. So let's just stick with English for now before I say translation text on the page. Like half a Dwight Eisenhower speech here. Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fire signifies that feels like a serious thing. Like, we could probably infer how to read that. If I gave you that text, you would infer the heaviness, the timing. And the AI is pretty good at doing that. Not perfect. And you can.
- [143:04]
A
What if he delivered that speech? Like Hitler. Like, I want to know. Like, how are they getting the. Like when Hitler would yell about stuff and then they had a translation of it in English and so are they doing it off text or they're doing off the sound of the. Like when he's saying the words and translating it, because then you would know he's conveying a certain amount of emotion. Or are they editing it in post and saying he's got to be louder here he's yelling. Is a human involved in that or.
- [143:39]
B
Yeah, they're human involved in every part of that. So they're setting the hyper parameters of, like, how. Yeah, like, how loud is it? How, like, dynamic it is. They can. They can change all of that and they can change specific. They can basically generate, you know, like five different options for the sentence. And then.
- [143:56]
A
That's so crazy.
- [143:58]
B
But that is an art form, right?
- [143:59]
A
Yeah, but it really is so crazy that we're not going to be able to tell if you said something. Yeah, like we're kind of there. There's. There's real cheap ones of me selling everything I see all the time on Instagram. Like, you know, different rappers and country western songs and go to this. Plus go to this restaurant. Like, you just generate them from AI, but you can still kind of tell. But then I've seen some ones. I'm sure you've seen that one of the one guy where it's a completely AI generated thing, voice and everything, and he's talking and he's telling you, like, this is completely AI generated. And you probably can't believe this, but it's true. He's explaining how it's done and it's nuts. It's so realistic.
- [144:41]
B
And I mean, I should say, like, from my experience with the Zelensky conversation, it's dubbed into all these languages, is dubbed into English. He's speaking Ukrainian and Russian. There's a lot of people, like, I've seen this, that think he's speaking English just because it's so close.
- [144:57]
A
Right.
- [144:57]
B
It's his voice.
- [144:59]
A
It's crazy.
- [144:59]
B
And so like, now I have this responsibility. Here I am with my exhausted, sleep deprived, translating, like his exact words. I could put whatever words in his mouth. Like, I could have the slap on the wrist thing. I f. You know, let me just take responsibility. I guess I fucked up. You know, it was three hours. It's very tough to like.
- [145:18]
A
Right.
- [145:19]
B
But like, I could have, you know, put in like, I like dicks in there. Just. Just throw it in there, you know, just for fun.
- [145:27]
A
Yeah. That's kind of crazy, right?
- [145:29]
B
Yeah. And it's out. And there's a lot of people that believe, like, okay, this is what he's saying.
- [145:33]
A
Right.
- [145:34]
B
So, I mean, there's a huge responsibility with that, and I think that's why people trust a particular podcast and so on. Like, you're not going to fuck with that responsibility, right?
- [145:43]
A
No, you're very aware of it and you take it very seriously.
- [145:49]
B
Yeah. But it's still hard to decide who and how to talk to. It was really, really difficult to think through the Zelensky conversations. Difficult to think about whether to talk to Putin or not and how to talk to him. It's difficult to think about Benjamin Netanyahu, to talk to him after October 7th. He's one of the most universally hated people on the planet now.
- [146:07]
A
Right.
- [146:07]
B
And it's like, okay, so how do you talk to him?
- [146:11]
A
And what, what do you get him to say about the innocent people that have been killed?
- [146:16]
B
But he has a certain perspective, which I should say that a lot of people inside Israel probably support. It's. I mean, I should also say not now, but earlier in Qatar, when the Hamas was in Qatar, they were interested in doing a podcast. The. The members of Hamas who are not in hiding. So the representatives were interested in doing a podcast. And there I decided not to because it's like, everyone knows what Hamas is. It's almost like, easy. Why not do a podcast? But it was like, well, that just feels. I mean, you are platforming hate there. That's in a way where you can't properly dissect and present and analyze and push and pull.
- [147:06]
A
You can't criticize them. Like, you're not going to be in a position where you can criticize them.
- [147:12]
B
Well, I should say in Qatar, it's safe. What's up in Qatar it's safe. So there I could criticize. In fact, one of the ways I would imagine talking to Hamas is pushing them actually pretty hard. In that case, I would actually push hard, and they would probably, because a lot of them are kind of just a pretty shallow and insane. So, like, they would just get really angry. Like, there's a. Be real anger. They would not come off as one of the fears. Talking to dictators is just the charisma. This it. Yeah, like, they would. You know, my opening statement to Netanyahu was, you know, a lot of people hate you. When I talk to him in August, a lot of people are protesting outside. There's a lot of people that hate you. What do you get to. What, what do you have to say to those people? Right. That's the opening thing. He says, like, he said something like, everybody loves me. I just gave a talk in Iran and 20 million people listen to me, and they love me. So that's just like. So how do you talk to a person where the reality is like, well, no, no, there is people that love you, Prime Minister Netanyahu, but there's quite a lot of people outside that don't love you.
- [148:32]
A
What did you expect him when you brought that up? Did you have expectations? What did you expect him to say?
- [148:39]
B
I expected for him to analyze where that hate comes from, to start to empathize, fake or not, to understand that perspective and to understand the perspective maybe of the Palestinians or the Gazans that hate him and then maybe make the case of Israel, like after Steel Manning, the Palestinian case, say, well, listen, we're like this tiny country that everybody's shooting rockets at. Then make the case for Israel, the historic case, the military case, the geopolitical case. But he did. It was, There was like, everybody loves me. Jeez. But in that answer, do you think.
- [149:19]
A
He really believed that? Yeah, yeah, he believed it. He's locked in.
- [149:24]
B
Locked in. But. Or, I mean, he's complicated. He's just. So that was definitely a wall.
- [149:31]
A
How much more time does he have in power?
- [149:34]
B
I mean, that's a. It's a consistent minute by minute thing. He. As long as he is being elected. And it's the same question for Zelensky, how long does he have in power? It's the same question, when does Israel.
- [149:48]
A
Have their elections again? Are they doing that while they're in the middle of this conflict?
- [149:53]
B
I'm not deeply familiar with the dynamics of it, but I think they can have elections at any time. There's coalitions. I think a bunch of countries have this kind of thing. So I think there's elections coming up. There might be a martial law type of situation. Forgive me, I'm not exactly sure, but it's basically under constant internal political pressure where he can lose power.
- [150:18]
A
Are you aware at all of his political opponents?
- [150:22]
B
Yeah, there's a bunch. There's a bunch of. There's a bunch of people. I mean, they have to walk a tightrope because there is a lot of fear and anger inside of Israel now. Like you said after October 7th, there's like an existential fear when the whole assumption of Israeli people was that like this, this kind of attack cannot possibly happen.
- [150:46]
A
Right.
- [150:46]
B
With Iron Dome and the, the defenses. And so you have a more. There's more room, there's capacity to elect more radical people that are more right wing, they're more aggressive, they're more militaristic.
- [151:00]
A
Well, this is one of the big reasons why people love to dive into the false flag narrative because they find an incentive for people to allow something to take place. Because if you allow something to take place and you sacrifice a certain percentage of your population, you have now new rules and you have much more power and you have a society that's behind you now because there's a reason why they want to fight. And this is why. Anytime there's anything that ever happens, there's a bunch of people that think it's a false flag. A bunch of people think 911 was a false flag. And then there's real ones that we know about. Like Operation Northwoods didn't happen, but they really did sign the Joint Chiefs of Staff signed proposal where they wanted to blow up American airliner and blame Cuba. We wanted to arm Cuban friendlies and attack Guantanamo Bay and they wanted to invade Cuba under false pretenses of a false flag. We really do stuff like that. And I say by we, I mean humans. Humans in power. Nero burned Rome like Hitler burned a Reichstag. There's, there's false flags that they, they create these situations to force people to fight. And that's a real thing. But it's also, it's also like people get caught with their pants down too. So it's like, it's hard to know what's what. It's hard to know what's what.
- [152:30]
B
But the same organization that did the whole pager thing, the, the sophisticated intelligence.
- [152:35]
A
Yeah.
- [152:36]
B
Required for that. Somehow missed an obvious breach of a.
- [152:41]
A
Right. And they were warned by Egypt. The whole thing is, it's very, it's very, very, very tragic.
- [152:50]
B
Jamie, just quick request. Are you tracking the starship launch?
- [152:54]
A
I know you want to watch. We've got five minutes, I think. Okay, four minutes. It's 3:56 right now, so.
- [153:00]
B
Yeah, I want to watch it.
- [153:01]
A
Yeah, I know you do.
- [153:01]
B
America.
- [153:03]
A
Wrap it up with that. Is it launching live?
- [153:07]
B
Yeah, it's live. Yeah. Yeah.
- [153:09]
A
Let's hope it doesn't blow up. That's. What if it blows up while we're watching?
- [153:13]
B
I don't think at this stage blowing up, I mean it would be really awesome if it doesn't blow up. If it flies and then it's caught by the 13 minutes in 30 minutes.
- [153:22]
A
Okay, we got time. Jamie, keep an eye on it at this time.
- [153:26]
B
I mean it's called Starship Test 7 for a reason. Like you, right. You wanna, you wanna blow a few.
- [153:31]
A
Up every now and again. So find out what the tolerances are.
- [153:34]
B
It is nice for Jeff Bezos to succeed on the first, first try. Like, the first one is really important because there's a lot of skepticism. Could this even be done with the new Glenn Rocket? But.
- [153:45]
A
And now Bezos and Elon are homies again.
- [153:48]
B
Homies.
- [153:48]
A
They're expressing platitudes on Twitter.
- [153:51]
B
Yeah. They're gonna sit together at the inauguration. What?
- [153:56]
C
Jamie, I'm trying to check something. I'm not finding the right video.
- [154:00]
A
Okay, no worries.
- [154:02]
C
Where should I go? Because I tried typing SpaceX.
- [154:05]
B
Yeah. Be really careful. Just find the official SpaceX channel. Or you can go on X. Yeah, go on X. There's going to be a bunch of bots selling you crypto if you're not careful. Don't go on pornhub. That's a different one.
- [154:21]
A
You can't go on pornhub in Texas.
- [154:24]
B
Violation of human rights. That's what I'm saying.
- [154:27]
A
That's what I'm saying.
- [154:28]
B
Are you going to the inauguration?
- [154:31]
A
Perhaps. Are you?
- [154:32]
B
Unfortunately, yeah.
- [154:33]
A
Really? Unfortunately.
- [154:34]
B
Socializing. All the socializing.
- [154:37]
A
Oh, you're doing it on purpose for work?
- [154:39]
B
No, I. I just. No, I. Listen, I've never. I never go out to things for work. I don't work. It's more like I felt like it's.
- [154:49]
A
An opportunity, like, to meet people.
- [154:52]
B
No, like you would regret if you didn't go. Like, it's a historic. It's a historic moment. And also, George St. Peterson, he's going somewhere.
- [154:59]
A
Oh, okay. Yeah. I think Gordon's going, too.
- [155:02]
B
Yeah.
- [155:03]
A
Yeah. It's a very different thing this time around. People are very hopeful with him as president now, which is very different than in 2016. 2016 was like this existential crisis that the media just blasted into everybody's head. I think enough time has passed and enough faith has been lost in the media that people have sort of woken up out of that and realize, like, we can't keep going the way we're going.
- [155:28]
B
I hope the good vibes continue in general like that. They. The politicization of everything will not escalate quickly here.
- [155:37]
A
It's possible. It's possible.
- [155:39]
B
Even the inauguration itself. Yeah. Like, I hope. I hope they're not. It's not a divisive event. It's more of an inspiring event.
- [155:47]
A
Well, it's gonna be divisive with some people. There's no getting around around that. Some people just their psychology. Like that lady in the pink that was yelling. Like the lady that said that. Pete Hegseth said that.
- [156:00]
B
When?
- [156:00]
A
He really didn't say it, just published it. Someone else wrote it.
- [156:03]
C
It says 37 minutes.
- [156:05]
A
37. We don't have that kind of time.
- [156:07]
C
This just went live. So it doesn't say anything.
- [156:09]
A
Just a big old SpaceX. And there it is. Is that it? Sitting there chilling.
- [156:13]
C
I'm trying to double check most of these. They all say 37 minutes and counting.
- [156:17]
A
Wow. Let's see who's Felix?
- [156:20]
C
These are just channels.
- [156:21]
B
This is.
- [156:21]
A
Oh, so a bunch of different channels.
- [156:23]
C
There's tons of channels with it. That's what I was trying to find the most accurate or real one because someone could be live streaming a fake one.
- [156:29]
A
What are they live streaming though?
- [156:31]
B
Yeah.
- [156:31]
A
Is there sorts of stuff have its own page.
- [156:36]
C
So that.
- [156:36]
B
That's.
- [156:37]
C
I just typed. I just went to live on YouTube. This is where my. I was bringing up. Up with Twitch. Like it's hard to find stuff that's live.
- [156:43]
A
Does SpaceX have an account?
- [156:44]
C
That's when I typed it in. That's when he was bringing up. You start getting all sorts of crazy and I get like space. All these weird. That's not them.
- [156:52]
A
That's not them. SpaceX live.
- [156:53]
B
That's.
- [156:54]
C
That would not. They wouldn't put that in their official account.
- [156:56]
A
Oh, wow.
- [156:57]
C
That's not.
- [156:58]
B
You know what? SpaceX might have just closed their YouTube channel. I'm guessing, like because they want to do it on X. Right?
- [157:03]
C
That makes sense. So I went to there and that's what.
- [157:05]
A
Oh, how weird. How weird.
- [157:08]
C
Went up three minutes ago.
- [157:09]
A
So it's just a bunch of fakers pretending to be SpaceX. SpaceX live. Like that. You're not SpaceX.
- [157:17]
B
Yeah.
- [157:17]
A
Tricking me into looking at your channel.
- [157:19]
C
They're boosting the algorithm, I guess.
- [157:21]
B
You know.
- [157:21]
A
So this is it.
- [157:22]
C
This is an older one.
- [157:23]
A
I thought, oh, this is old.
- [157:25]
B
And some of them. Everyday Astronaut is really great. I recommend people stream him. He's a. He's a great. You Wait. I feel like. Have you talked to him? I'm not exactly sure, but he was. He went after Bart. What is his name?
- [157:40]
A
Bar Sibel.
- [157:41]
B
Yeah.
- [157:42]
A
Yeah. Did he.
- [157:43]
B
He's really. I mean. And not went after. I should say. Just. He used the opportunity to educate. Like he like has this really long.
- [157:50]
A
Gotta get the two of them in the same room.
- [157:52]
B
Yeah, yeah. For sure. That's what he wants. He keeps being on my case like those. I want to debate him.
- [157:56]
A
Did you ever have Bart on your podcast?
- [157:57]
B
No. And Bart wants to debate him. I was like, do I want this? Right?
- [158:02]
A
Of course you do not. Shut the fuck up. Do it.
- [158:06]
B
I think. I think there's a. Yeah, it's. It's something that Happened in the past. Like, what are we going to learn from it? Say it was completely fake. Right. What's the. I would rather focus on modern day conspiracies.
- [158:19]
A
What, you don't want to know if they fake the moon land? Are you crazy?
- [158:23]
B
No, I do want to know, but.
- [158:24]
A
Like, okay, to me.
- [158:26]
B
How does your life change?
- [158:27]
A
A lot. A lot. Okay, this is how. Yeah, because you know, the government is able to do. Government is able to fake the fucking moon landing and to get people to shut their mouths. Yeah. And a bunch of people disappeared.
- [158:40]
B
Yeah, the stories.
- [158:42]
A
Nuts, dude.
- [158:44]
B
Yeah.
- [158:44]
A
Do you know the story about. God, what was his name? I don't remember, but he was a journalist. What was he assigned to do? Signed to do an audit of NASA. And he wrote hundreds of pages and his analysis. This is like 1964, 65, 66. Somewhere around then. So it was years before the moon landings. God, I can't remember his name. I used to have this at the tip of my tongue. But he parked his car with his family in it on a train track. And a train smashed their car. And the document was never retrieved. It vanished. It went away. Bye, bye. And then a few years later, everyone's on the moon. Gus Grisham, the pilot of Apollo 1, the guy that burned alive in that thing, he hung a lemon on that thing, saying that it would never work. They couldn't communicate with the tower. How's this thing supposed to get us to the moon? And that guy, you know, people. His family believes he was murdered for that. There's a lot of weirdness in the moon landing, buddy.
- [159:59]
B
See, there's Tim Dodd.
- [160:00]
A
If he really did pull it off.
- [160:02]
B
Yeah.
- [160:03]
A
And then all these people are cucking for the government of the 1960s. It's kind of hilarious.
- [160:09]
B
Wait, they pulled off the fake?
- [160:10]
A
The faking. The faking, yeah.
- [160:13]
B
So Tim Dodd, everyday astronaut, apparently has an answer to all of this.
- [160:16]
A
Yeah, he's a. What's his answer to the Van Allen radiation belts?
- [160:19]
B
There is an answer. I'm not. This is. I'm not going to turn this debate. I don't.
- [160:23]
A
It's a cute one, whatever it is.
- [160:25]
B
The answer.
- [160:26]
A
That has to be cute. Like to send people through thousands of miles of intense radiation and have no biological animal that you've ever done that to that's come back alive and just. Let's try it on, people.
- [160:41]
B
So let me try to convince you as an agent of the Mossad and the CIA. I don't. I think. Okay, this is from me looking at Wikipedia for about five seconds. So I thought, I thought the belt is not all the way around. So you can go around the belt?
- [160:58]
A
No, you can get through the top and the bottom, but you have to fly out of Antarctica.
- [161:01]
B
Right.
- [161:02]
A
And you really can't do that. And then the way we did it, we had to go through it. And we had to go through it. I think it was for a couple hours maybe. It's possible.
- [161:13]
B
Maybe we're gonna find out soon, right?
- [161:15]
A
Hopefully. Unless they go through Antarctica. There's. So it's like a donut. That's what it is. The intense band of radiation is like a donut.
- [161:24]
B
But apparently the actual amount of radiation is not that intense. I mean, again, speaking as a massage.
- [161:31]
A
Depends on who you are. Van Allen thought it was pretty intense. And also there was a Operation Starfish Prime. Do you know about that? Operation Starfish prime, they were trying to blow a hole through the radiation belt. So they launched nuclear weapons into space and detonated them. And it had the opposite effect. Like supercharged the radiation belt, made it more radioactive. Yeah, Operation Starfish Prime. Google that.
- [161:57]
C
Temporary that, wasn't that.
- [161:58]
A
What's that?
- [161:59]
C
It was temporary. Like just. And it dissipated.
- [162:01]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Jamie is also a Mossad.
- [162:04]
A
No, no, he's right. No, he's right. But I mean, like, when they measured it, when they measured it was like way more radiation. They didn't blow a hole through it at all. They fucked it up. They supercharged it. But just the fact that they were trying to do that, they were trying to blow up nuclear weapons in space. Like, if I was the aliens, that's when I would start showing up. Like, look at these fucking assholes.
- [162:25]
B
High altitude nuclear tests.
- [162:27]
A
What.
- [162:28]
B
What are people doing?
- [162:29]
A
Not only that, it shut off the power in Hawaii. It fucked Hawaii up. Hawaii had like a brown out. Like, these guys are psychopaths. Can you imagine, like sitting at a table with a bunch of generals and this guy comes in with a cigar. I want to launch a fucking nuke in space. I want to see what happens. I just want to see what happens. You know what my favorite one of those is? The very first detonation of the very first nuclear bomb. There was a non zero chance that that bomb was going to destroy the entire atmosphere of the Earth.
- [163:01]
B
Just imagine what that feels like, Right?
- [163:03]
A
Yeah. And they were like, let's see, let's see. Boom. Nope, we're still here. They're reasonably sure that it wasn't going to do that. But you know, you've never done that before. Who knows?
- [163:13]
B
And there's a Lot of people asking the question of like in the war in Ukraine, whether Putin is willing to use even tactical nuclear weapons. Yeah, just send a statement. That's an open question.
- [163:25]
A
It is an open question and it's.
- [163:27]
B
Like a terrifying possibility. We, I think generationally have forgotten what nuclear weapons are.
- [163:32]
A
Right.
- [163:33]
B
Like most people think it's like a fun tick tock meme.
- [163:36]
A
Right, right.
- [163:38]
B
The mushroom cloud can just. And then, and then what happens next?
- [163:43]
A
Tune back and forth, back and forth. Now everything's gone, Everything's gone like that.
- [163:49]
B
And that's why I'm excited about starship launches, because the backup.
- [163:53]
A
Get the fuck out of here. Let's live on the sex cult on Mars.
- [163:58]
B
No, I love Earth. I prefer Earth, the sex cult.
- [164:02]
A
Right. But if you had to be a person who lived and Earth was gonna blow, you'd probably try it. He'd try. You'd say, listen, maybe we can. Maybe I'm gonna be the fucking Davy Crockett of Mars. And then years from now, this would be a mall. And everybody remember when Lex came over on the rocket? Yeah, yeah.
- [164:22]
B
I mean it's really is exciting to see what kind of societies form on Mars. Even just like a hundred people, a thousand people, ten thousand people, one hundred thousand people.
- [164:30]
A
What are the prospects of terraforming? Because the problem is like Mars is too far from, from the sun. Like it's just not warm enough. Like, so what are they going to do in terms of like oxygen and do you know Terrence Howard, the actor? You know Terrence Howard's theory? He's got a great theory. It's a really interesting theory. He thinks that all solar systems, that instead of it being like a collection of debris from the outer galaxies, there's that too. But what it really is, is the sun is ejecting matter. And we know that. Right. So after millions and millions of years, the sun ejecting matter, the matter coalesces and becomes a planet. As it gets further and further from the sun, it becomes more hospitable to life as it gets into that Goldilocks zone where Earth is it peoples. And that he thinks that this is happening all throughout the galaxy, that planets get to a certain stage and then they people and then those planets are slowly going to move further and further out, away, further and get colder and colder. And it's up to these creatures to figure out how to get the fuck out of there before it becomes inhospitable. And that's where the advanced civilizations come in. And this is why he thinks the most advanced civilizations Are on the planets that are the furthest from the sun because they're the ones who've adapted. Adapted and figured out a way to exist off of some other form of energy other than just sunlight.
- [166:01]
B
What does he have an idea about which planets in our solar system might be peopled?
- [166:04]
A
Probably used to be Mars.
- [166:06]
B
Mars still?
- [166:07]
A
Or no, no, there's nothing on there now. I mean it's not. But there could have been. There was an atmosphere.
- [166:13]
B
There could be life there now there's water there.
- [166:15]
A
There could be. Well, there's probably some sort of bacterial life, right? There's probably. The real question is, is there any evidence that there was other life? Like, think about how difficult it is for us to find like dinosaur bones, right? Like dinosaurs have to become a fossil. It's like. It's a very complicated process. They have to die in mud or something. They have to get covered up and then they calcify. And if you don't know when you get a fossil, the bone that's fossilized. It's not really that bone. What it is is it's been remineralized by all the earth elements. And so it's kind of a different thing. But it's in the shape of the bone. That's fossilized bone. And what if you're talking about like 30 million years, 50 million years? 100 million years? 200 million years? A billion years? What if Mars a billion years ago had life on it? What would be left?
- [167:08]
B
Nothing. That mean in that case, nothing.
- [167:10]
A
What would be left? Like Earth is four point something billion years old, right? How old's Mars? Do we know how old's Mars?
- [167:18]
B
Yeah, that's good estimates for that.
- [167:19]
A
Like is Mars older?
- [167:21]
B
I believe it's older. Yeah.
- [167:23]
A
So that's pretty similar, right?
- [167:26]
B
When did the solar system start forming?
- [167:29]
A
See, these are just wild guesses by.
- [167:30]
C
A bunch of system form.
- [167:32]
A
4.5 billion bunch of eggheads with wild guesses. I'm going with Terrence Howard. I think he's right. I think it was what a brilliant idea though.
- [167:40]
B
I'm offended you called him an actor. He could be. Well, he's a mathematician, physically.
- [167:44]
A
He's a lot of things. Brilliant guy.
- [167:46]
B
His conversation with you, with Eric, with Eric Weinstein and you was just his art.
- [167:52]
A
It was a good conversation.
- [167:54]
B
Some conversations are art.
- [167:55]
A
Yeah, that was a good one. Because he's a good guy. He's a good guy and Eric's a very good guy. The way he handled it, you know, he was stern and very clear and obvious that who was right. But Very kind and very friendly, which is a quality that Eric has, like the ability to do that. Especially when you're talking about something that's so incredibly complex and esoteric, you know, like you're talking about like super complicated math and he's showing it to him. Do you know how to do this? Like you're showing it on the board and you could tell he doesn't know how to do this. He's like, let me explain how this works. And then you realize like, oh boy, self taught. You know, this is the thing, like there's a lot of brilliant people that just don't get the correct education, but they're still brilliant.
- [168:37]
B
Yeah, the raw horsepower is there.
- [168:39]
A
Yes, the raw horsepower is there. Yeah. But I think this theory that he has about planets peopling, I find it so fascinating. I couldn't stop thinking about it for days. I was like, I think he's right.
- [168:52]
B
Yeah. I mean we're going to find out. We're going to find like even if we discover bacteria on Mars, that's going to change everything. Like I, I'm convinced that there's alien life throughout the, even the galaxy, but that's a really open question and most people don't think so.
- [169:11]
A
You know what I think? I don't think it gets past where we are very often. I think it probably fucks up a lot. I think it's too difficult to harness the power of the sun while you're a tribal monkey and not blow yourself up or fuck things up horribly or just, just get involved in natural disasters he didn't adequately prepare for. I mean we're still not prepared at all for asteroid impacts.
- [169:37]
B
I mean. Yeah, young and drastic theory, it's very recent.
- [169:40]
A
Yeah. And also super volcanoes, we're not prepared at all. If we have a super volcano of Yellowstone blows, which it's gonna, One of these is gonna, one of the big ones is gonna blow. They just do. They might blow a hundred thousand years from now, it might blow next week. They fucking happen. And we're not prepared. We're not prepared for that.
- [169:56]
B
Even if you just look at the LA fire. Sorry to interrupt. Like imagine the chaos that's going to be created.
- [170:01]
A
Oh, and imagine the LA fires with no fire department.
- [170:04]
B
Right.
- [170:05]
A
Okay. Imagine that. Imagine that there's no one out there trying to put that fire out. That would be fucking insane. And you know, I think civilization has probably gone through a gang of those before. I think Graham Hancock, as much as he gets criticized, I think, I think he's onto something. I think Randall Carlson is as well. I think they're onto something. I think that's probably the end of the Ice Age. It's probably asteroid impacts. There's too much physical evidence that corresponds with the timeline for it to be ignored. I mean, it's a pretty accepted theory. Now, the Younger Dryas Impact theory, it's just like what happened during that time and what existed before that time. And all the stuff that we see a few thousand years later. Is that a reimagining of civilization out of complete and utter chaos? Because I think it might be, and it might be one of the reasons why we're so fucking barbaric. It might be that our ancestors were the ones who survived the most horrific time in history where we got hit by asteroids and civilization just evaporated instantaneously. Millions of people probably instantaneously died. We were left with chaos in a completely different climate. Places that were covered in ice are now raging rivers. The whole thing's fucked. All the animals are dead. Most people you know that are anywhere near the impact are dead. People get washed away in the floods. Entire civilizations just instantaneously flooded and destroyed. That could happen again. That could happen again tomorrow, that could happen again next month. It's, we're in the shooting gallery. We're in the shooting gallery of the universe. And I bet that's pretty common. So I bet the race is to try to get intelligent enough that you can do all these different things, but also intelligent enough that you abandon these ancient primal instincts that you have. And that's where we're at the cusp of that. We're at the cusp of our tribal chaos mixed in with impossible knowledge. And it's all, like, happening at the same time. And so there's this wild race that's going on and people like you and people like me and people that are hopeful. We hope we get it right. We hope we get it right, but we might not get it right. And I think out there in the universe, I think it's probably more likely that people don't get it right than do get it right. And if they do get wiped out, I mean, we got the Toba volcano we got down somewhere around 70,000 thousand years ago to a few thousand people on Earth. What are those like? Like, Jesus Christ, those are our ancestors. Those people must have been brutal.
- [172:46]
B
Well, that's one of the things I've just seen, even in the. On the smaller scale of the war in Ukraine is, you know, your house or the city gets destroyed and people adapt immediately. Like the Tough people rise up. Like it changes you immediately. There's a resilience to the human spirit. It's crazy. You can adjust. So if, if an asteroid hits Earth, like the United States, you know, let's say 70 of people dead.
- [173:14]
A
Yeah. Like you get an unlocked power that like your character in the video game has.
- [173:18]
B
Yeah. I mean, they're. This is where the people in Texas immediately become the, the value commodity versus, like, I don't know, people in Silicon Valley or something.
- [173:28]
A
Yeah.
- [173:29]
B
Technology doesn't matter. None of that matters. Survival matters. Individual, radical individualism matters. And that's one of the things that gives me community matters. Local look, very local.
- [173:39]
A
You got a band together.
- [173:40]
B
But like, it really is a tension of. Because it's not collectivism. It's not like.
- [173:45]
A
Right.
- [173:46]
B
So governments that rely on central authorities fall apart from that kind of thing.
- [173:52]
A
Well, 100%. Any natural disaster government, like a real big one, like an asteroid impact, it's gone. The government doesn't do anything anymore. They're useless. Power goes out for a month. They're gone. Everybody's gone. It's any man from self. No one's protecting you from outlaws. You've seen that already in the California fires. There's gangs of kids, hundred at a time breaking into houses and looting them. In the middle of these evacuation zones. You're seeing chaos. They can't protect you from that. If something happens and this is something we're not prepared for, we're spending so much time doing other things and not recognizing the incredible vulnerability that our society has. This very fragile system that we put in place that's so much better than at any time in human history. This is the best time to be alive ever by far. And it's so fragile, and we don't think it's fragile because the power stays on. On.
- [174:49]
B
Yeah. And one of the things, you know, just having traveled across the world, like the thing that really America stands out with and why I'm excited about what's happening now is the, the radical individual freedom. I think the freer the country is, the individual. Back to Genghis Khan with the free, free freedom to practice religion. The freer the people are, the more resilient they are to the, the, the terrors, the catastrophic dystrophies of the world. Yeah, they just respond. They're much more dynamic. The more centralized and collectivist the society is, the more you're susceptible to corruption, to this kind of propaganda that, you know, you're not able to respond to. Even like the pandemic, the Just governments are not able to do that. The. The fouches of the world will always emerge.
- [175:36]
A
Right.
- [175:36]
B
They just. It's. It's not even say even Fauci wanted to do the right thing or something. It's just risk. It's very. It's impossible for the centralized authorities to do the right thing. You have to have a distributed. You have to put much more weight on the freedom of the individual.
- [175:51]
A
That's a really important thing that you just said. It's impossible for the centralized authorities to do the right thing. It really almost is if they want to do their job.
- [175:59]
B
That's why Doge. I mean, there's a lot of promise there.
- [176:01]
A
Yeah.
- [176:02]
B
You want to decrease the power, the size and the bureaucracy of the federal government. You want. You want them to be mobile, agile, small, efficient and distributed to the state or to small companies? To companies.
- [176:17]
A
How about stop going after the American people? How about that too?
- [176:21]
B
Which part? Every part.
- [176:23]
A
All sorts of things. All sorts of things. You know, attacking people. What's happened with this country because of. Of January 6th and their version of it and what actually happened then? You know, what the FBI did with the Twitter files, with influencing things. What they did with Facebook, where they contact them, were telling them to take down memes.
- [176:49]
B
Can I actually just say about that? I don't know if he gets enough credit, but I think what Mark Zuckerberg did on your podcast is actually. It may not seem that way, but it's courageous.
- [177:00]
A
I think he had to do it too.
- [177:01]
B
I think it's both things, but internally, he's running a gigantic company.
- [177:05]
A
He's running a gigantic company. But also, this is the way things are rolling. You either get in the way and get rolled over or you get on board. And if you want your company to succeed in today's day and age and not be disdained and universally, whether it's. Whether people boycott it or people just start hating on the stock drops. Like if a new thing that's like Facebook, because Facebook is. Although it's so common, it's one of those ones you could do without. Kind of. It doesn't have the kind of information gathering aspect that X does. Like, if I want to find out what's going on in the world, I go to X. Facebook's not like that. It's like people talking about stuff and posting videos and things. Like.
- [177:55]
B
I mean, there's also WhatsApp.
- [177:57]
A
That one could take a hit, that could take a big hit if people just decided like, fuck you and your censorship. You know, And I think More people are inclined to say, fuck you and your censorship now than ever before. So it's a good business decision to stop censoring people. And the community notes thing is fucking genius. It's the greatest invention ever in terms of, like, the ability to find out what's right or what's wrong. Let's let people post things. And it was not true enough. People report it. People look at it and go, oh, it turns out that's not true at all. And here's why it's not true. That shit's huge. It's huge. It's funny when Elon gets community noted, too. Even he gets community noted.
- [178:34]
B
It's so great. It's so great.
- [178:36]
A
Yeah, you get community noted, son. Everybody does. But it's. It's the best way. It's the best way to find out what's real, what's not real. But then it's also like, you know, should you let people on your platform that are just straight up Nazis and trying to recruit people? Should you let horrible racism exist on your platform? The problem is that slippery slope, man. If you say no, if you say no, then you. Then other people are going to decide. You remember Punch a Nazi? Where people saying, you should punch a Nazi? I remember like Kurt Metzger was. He was like, well, who fucking gets to say who's a Nazi? If it was just like a guy running a gas chamber, yeah, punch a Nazi. But if it's just some guy who doesn't think that a trans woman should be competing against his daughter in high school sports, that's not a Nazi, you've changed the term.
- [179:30]
B
I think the slippery slope is important. There's people like Pavel Durov, who's running Telegram, and he was Europe, rest in peace, is going after him for like, you get arrested. Yeah, well, because there is legitimate terrorists talking to each other on Telegram. But, like, what the. What's the alternative?
- [179:51]
A
But if it's an encrypted app, how are you gonna stop it? How are you gonna stop if it really is encrypted, if they can't read it? Right? Like, this is WhatsApp. If you use WhatsApp, if you and I message each other on WhatsApp, no one can read it but us.
- [180:03]
B
Yeah, but the government wants the back door. That's what they wanted with.
- [180:06]
A
Right, but that's crazy because you could use that back door in all kinds of ways. Like, they use that back door for signal. That's how they found out that Tucker Carlson was talking to Putin's people about setting up an interview. He was like, we know you did it on signals. Tucker's like, I didn't even know you could do that.
- [180:23]
B
That's what Tucker says.
- [180:24]
A
You think Tucker's lying? How dare you?
- [180:26]
B
He's not lying. You son of a bitch.
- [180:28]
A
You are a Russian. Russian plant.
- [180:29]
B
No, CIA and Russian. Yes, for sure. All of them.
- [180:33]
A
All of them.
- [180:34]
B
You gotta.
- [180:34]
A
You gotta meet to the meeting, bro. I want to see what happens. I want to see what they do with that goat.
- [180:41]
B
You're gonna.
- [180:42]
A
Well, Tucker said they read his signal.
- [180:44]
B
Well, it's very possible, but technologically I'm not sure how it's possible to do that. I mean, I'm spot.
- [180:51]
A
But the way it's been explained to me is even though your phone is encrypted, it's not encrypted to you. Like, you see it, right? You see his messages? Yeah, it's encrypted. Peer to peer. Right. So if they can just see your phone, you mean. Yeah. 100. Not just screen recording. Get access to your phone, find out all your contacts, all your emails.
- [181:11]
B
Yes, but it's end to end encrypted. So it's difficult. I mean, it's possible, it's difficult, but.
- [181:16]
A
It'S not through signal if you're going through the phone. So if you're using Pegasus, you're just compromising the entire phone. If you, if signals on that phone, you, you know the passwords already. You go into signal, you can go in anything.
- [181:27]
B
Oh, in that way, yeah, you have.
- [181:29]
A
Access to the phone.
- [181:30]
B
But that's. Right, that's, that's legitimate hacking. Right? Right.
- [181:33]
A
But this is what they're doing, right? Like.
- [181:37]
B
That'S not what they wanted with Telegram, they wanted legitimate, like full on back door.
- [181:41]
A
But Gavin de Becker explained this to me. He said with, with Pegasus one, you needed to click a link, right? There's this, this is the Jeff Bezos thing. Someone sent him a bad link on WhatsApp. He clicked it, they had access to his phone, they got compromising information on him. With Pegasus 2, they just need your phone number. So they got your phone number. Boom, they're in your phone. That's it. And so if that's the case, if you have a, an app like Signal, like I would assume they could read your signal because that's like right there on your phone. Like if you already got the phone open and they've got a compromise where they can get into your, into your phone.
- [182:19]
B
That's actually, by the way, why, you know, I'm going to Ukraine, going To Russia, going back to Ukraine, trying to.
- [182:26]
A
Get your phone hacked.
- [182:27]
B
Well, I also try to make sure, like, dick pics that I sent to you and Tim, Dylan aside, I try not to. There's nothing to hide, right?
- [182:35]
A
Do you have a burner? You got a burner phone? Do you bring. When you go overseas, you bring your real phone?
- [182:40]
B
I wouldn't tell you, bro.
- [182:41]
A
That phone is hearing everything we say.
- [182:42]
B
Yeah, for sure, for sure. What. What are we saying that we need to hide? I mean, there's some embarrassing things, for sure. Like, you know, drunk texts. Drunk texts? Yeah, I mean, from the past. I'm some shit from the past. I'm so glad I grew up when I did.
- [182:58]
A
Oh, my God. Imagine if you were 15 with a phone that you take a picture of your dick.
- [183:02]
B
So somebody. Somebody. So there's like a hit piece on me. Fine. Great. Wonderful. I love you. All set? Write some more. But this journalist found like, some shit poetry I wrote.
- [183:13]
A
Oh, no.
- [183:14]
B
I mean, when you were young. Yeah, well, hanging around with comedians, it was like, late. It might have been late 20s, early 30s. So it's not like. There's not even an excuse that you're not that young.
- [183:24]
A
It just sucked.
- [183:25]
B
It just sucked. Yeah. And it. And then I was just reading it because they. They know how to get. Who is this article for?
- [183:33]
A
Because for the person writing it, they want to hate on you. And it's clicks and you're popular, so they want to hate on you by attacking your shitty post.
- [183:41]
B
Hilarious. Cuz, like, well, they got you.
- [183:42]
A
You gave him a little rope.
- [183:44]
B
Yeah.
- [183:44]
A
And they hung you with it.
- [183:45]
B
But like, what I'm saying is that's not a big deal. The. The bigger deal is, like, if you grew up with that, like, so there's like you said, when you're 14 or 15 or 16.
- [183:53]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [183:55]
B
It's even the piece, like, you know, that. That stuff, like the article, all that kind of stuff, you could even. I mean, one of the big things we have to do is allow people to evolve and just say, you know, yeah, that was shit poetry. Well, I'm still horrible. I'm worse at poetry now. But, like, that was embarrassing that I would be publishing.
- [184:11]
A
I think that these people that attack, almost all of them are leftists. And I think leftism is a religion. Just like being a Christian is a religion in that there's like a. There's a way that you approach it. Marc Andreessen says it best. He was describing that it has all of the attributes of a cult. And I think people have a Default system in their mind. We all do. That we fall into that gives us like a religious like adherence to some ideas. And the thing that this cult is lacking, which is paramount to Christianity, is forgiveness. There's no road to redemption. Everyone is ostracized and kicked out. And what you wind up doing is you wind up cannibalizing your own thing. You can never be left enough. There's always crazy people that are like far to the end of it. And every ideological group gets defined by its most extreme members. That's why when people think about like far right people who do think the worst people you think of like people who want war, warmongers, assholes, you know, stupid people, uneducated. That's what people think of when they think of like the worst, they think of like white nationalists. That's what they think of when they think of far right. So you can kind of like you flavor everything else in the group by the worst members of the group. And if you don't have forgiveness in your religion, like you have a fucking terrible religion if you don't have a path to redemption and you want extreme adherence to dogma, even if, like, even if whatever this idea with this ideology that you're pushing is like clearly, clearly destructive to a bunch of humans, that's what they're dealing with. It's like people fall in the thought patterns, man, that most people are too busy to formulize their own opinion. So they develop opinions to sort of merge with the people that they're in touch with all the time. And if you get stuck in one of those woke hives like you're, you're basically surrounded by mentally ill people that are preaching in a logical version of the world that no one, no one believes could ever exist.
- [186:19]
B
I hope there, there will be left wing leaders that emerge that kind of.
- [186:25]
A
Shed that I think they will have to just by virtue of their survival. I think the woke thing is so widely rejected now. And when I say the woke thing, I mean this, this what Elon calls the mind virus. The, the crazy aspect of it, like your kid knows it's trans when it's two, that kind of shit. Like the people that are just far off the rails, that's going to die off. It's just, it's just too nutty and it doesn't make any sense and it's ultimately destructive to a lot of different groups of people. And it's not fair. It's like the trans women in sports thing is the most unfair aspect of it. That one, that one's so crazy when you see people argue for it. Inclusivity, like you're out of your mind. Like you're out of your mind. And the inability to discern who's a pervert and who's actually trans. Like the impossible nature and then just green lighting perverts to do whatever they want and that.
- [187:19]
B
You know, my concern is, I do think the, the wokeism is either dying or dead. My concern is those folks who are now looking for a new religion. There's people like that on the right. I think they're mostly rejected.
- [187:31]
A
No, there's a lot of people like that on the right. The right has a woke. Right? They have an attacking woke. They, they're not united. There's an aspect to the right that attacks other people on the right, especially now because the right has like more attention than ever before. There's a whole always going to be a group in any sort of ideology. There's going to be a group of people that use the opportunity to attack people to elevate themselves.
- [187:57]
B
Yeah. I think Marc Andreessen going off five minutes. I think Marc Andreessen calls the battle, I think on the right maybe between the, the techno libertarians versus the nationalists. So there's these like protectionist people that say like no more immigration.
- [188:15]
A
Right.
- [188:15]
B
Mass deport everybody. And then there's these people which they align a lot of ideas. These people that say we need to build.
- [188:22]
A
Yeah.
- [188:23]
B
Like they're both America first, but they just have a different flavor of that. You know, the Mark Andreessen's of the world probably are. Or at least Silicon Valley. Except immigration. Like we need to allow legal immigration of the best people in the world.
- [188:37]
A
Right.
- [188:38]
B
And put the nationalist part of the right. They're like, no, that you with your H1B. Fuck you with the. Yeah, but we don't need anymore. We need Mirka.
- [188:48]
A
Yeah, we don't need. What is your take on the H1B thing? Because I, I saw the argument and I was like, wait a minute, what is it? Do you guys want cheap labor? Are you trying to get like super skillful engineers from other places? Like, what are we asking for here?
- [189:04]
B
I think as I understand, H1B is just abused to get cheap labor. Labor. Yeah, but so it needs to be reformed. I think the argument got really muddled.
- [189:15]
A
Right. Because everybody was looking at the worst aspects of H1B, which is the cheap labor. Right.
- [189:19]
B
But there is an aspect, and I think this. There's an O1 visa, there's different kinds of visas where like we need to get the bad, the, the best, baddest from the all the. The rest of the world and have them work here.
- [189:30]
A
Look at that baby. 353 to go. Look at it steaming. Look at all those carbons being emitted into the atmosphere by people who sell electric cars. You'd have to drive a hundred thousand fucking cars 24 hours a day for a year to get any of the release of carbon that that thing has.
- [189:52]
B
Here you go with your woke again.
- [189:54]
A
You'd have to drive my Chevelle until the universe died of heat death. To get as much as you're gonna get off of this one rocket, turns.
- [190:03]
B
Out you need a combustion engine to, to get off this.
- [190:05]
A
Do you think we do, man? What do you think is going on with the UAPs? Do you think these have some new.
- [190:10]
B
Well, that's the Eric Weinstein like, you don't need to worry about the rockets. You need to crack physics. Yeah, I think, I think, yeah.
- [190:16]
A
I think Einstein has a very unusual theory involving that one university that has a completely overqualified physics department. It's also connected to a stockbroker, or not a stockbroker, a financial thing. What are those things called? You know what I'm talking about, Jamie, God damn it. The point is. No, it's like some financial investment group that does better numbers. They do like Birdie Madoff numbers, like nutty numbers. What's that?
- [190:54]
C
Venture capital venture.
- [190:55]
A
Thank you. That's it. So this company is connected to this university. This company makes extraordinary amounts of money. This university has an insane physics department and like they're not publishing anything. And Eric's like, what are you guys doing? What the are you doing? So he thinks, thinks that these branched off. He thinks that the, the government probably got a bunch of like super top secret squirrel type dudes. They're working on some high level and they branched off decades ago and that they've been working on this for a long time.
- [191:26]
B
Of course the military often swoops in and wants that talent, wants that technology. What's those ideas, right?
- [191:31]
A
They're probably connected all inter intertwined with the military because who's going to build these things, right? You need the Defense department. You need defense contractors rather you need like Raytheon. You need someone like that who knows how to make spaceships, like make this fucking thing, you know. And they probably back engineered it all. They probably found some crash things that are probably left here on purpose. And like figure it out, monkeys. And then in, you know, 1947, these dudes are fucking fumbling around and all sudden they figure out fiber optics. All of a sudden they figure out transistors. All of a sudden. Like there's a bunch of weird that just kind of emerges after these crash sites. That's what I like to believe.
- [192:16]
B
Yeah, I kind of believe that. I also believe that there's. That they're, they're not so focused on us. They're doing it here and everywhere else too. Like this is maybe I.
- [192:26]
A
Why wouldn't they be focused on us? I would focus.
- [192:28]
B
Feel like there's a lot, a lot of tribes, I think.
- [192:32]
A
I bet it takes a long ass time for it to get to the distance that our Earth got from the sun where you can get liquid water and it only lasts for a little while until it freezes.
- [192:42]
B
Oh, maybe if that's the case and they understand that, then yes, then we're spikes.
- [192:46]
A
If you thought about like the way. Let's just assume that the way life was created on Earth is the only way life is created anywhere in the universe. Let's assume that all those rules apply. Let's assume that Terrence Howard's on to something.
- [192:58]
B
The peopling.
- [192:59]
A
The peopling. You would imagine that it would have to get where we are, where the water melts, where the ice melts. 17 seconds. And then life emerges from the sea like it did here. Right. Doesn't that make sense that that would happen everywhere? Two minus ten. Oh, Jesus.
- [193:16]
B
Wherever there's water.
- [193:17]
A
There we go. Six, five, four, three, two, one. Here it goes. We have lift up. That's a hundred million diesel trucks blowing coal.
- [193:38]
B
This is America, baby.
- [193:40]
A
Look at that thing.
- [193:41]
B
The vehicle's pitching down range.
- [193:43]
A
Holy, man.
- [193:45]
B
And that, that thing's going to get caught, bro.
- [193:51]
A
I want a rocket. I just decided I want a rocket. I need a rocket.
- [193:56]
C
Podcast from space.
- [193:57]
A
I want a rocket.
- [193:59]
C
Look down.
- [193:59]
B
All right, we're more than 30 seconds into flight telemetry.
- [194:02]
A
30 seconds, 33.
- [194:04]
B
Engines as it's pitching down range.
- [194:06]
A
Look how high that is in 30 seconds.
- [194:10]
B
Booster chip, avionics, power telemetry nominal.
- [194:16]
A
Is it going to snap off?
- [194:18]
B
You just heard the res about six miles away.
- [194:21]
A
When it snaps off, where's it go?
- [194:22]
B
Starship Arc. You're talking about the.
- [194:25]
A
They drop it in the ocean.
- [194:27]
B
No, it lands.
- [194:29]
A
Oh, that's right. That's why it's the Falcon.
- [194:32]
B
Yeah. It gets caught by these.
- [194:38]
A
I know. I was thinking about like the Saturn V. I think it was like a boost. I forgot. Actually you can land, which is even nuttier.
- [194:44]
B
Yeah, it's nutty. It's that this gigantic thing that's size of a skyscraper is gonna just lands.
- [194:52]
A
They just passed through the greatest stress the vehicles can experience going uphill.
- [194:55]
C
Speed is 2000km an hour.
- [194:59]
A
What the fuck? It keeps getting faster.
- [195:02]
B
Look how high it is, huh.
- [195:03]
A
As they get away from the gravity of Earth. Look how it gets faster. You fucking flat Earth dorks.
- [195:07]
B
It gets easier and easier. I don't know. Looks flat from here.
- [195:12]
A
It does look flat. They're right. Oh my God. Bro. You believe this cgi? You really believe this is happening? You are a shill, Lex.
- [195:24]
B
Watch the camera might go off for a little bit, which will explain everything.
- [195:27]
A
Have you seen the guy who takes the flat Earth people to Antarctica where they could see that the sun around and like. Oh shit. Well you could go to Antarctica. That's not an ice wall.
- [195:37]
B
No, I mean I like people that can change their mind in that way.
- [195:43]
A
Bro.
- [195:44]
B
Let's see. Let's see if it lands. It should be a few minutes.
- [195:47]
C
I think this here in the corner is like all the different boosters or something.
- [195:51]
A
So it's 54 miles or 54 kilometers in the sky right now. Dude.
- [195:58]
B
And it actually has, I think satellites on board active.
- [196:02]
A
We just heard the call out for.
- [196:03]
C
Just turned them all off. Just slowed down.
- [196:08]
B
Stage separation.
- [196:10]
A
So that's going to go land?
- [196:12]
B
That's going to go land.
- [196:13]
A
That's so that's a building.
- [196:14]
C
What does that take now? Like two minutes before it comes back down?
- [196:17]
B
Maybe three, four more.
- [196:19]
A
That is so crazy. It's going to go land now.
- [196:22]
B
All right.
- [196:23]
A
Hot stage. We've got a booster.
- [196:25]
B
Hopefully on our way.
- [196:26]
A
Look at the Earth. It looks round. The Earth looks kind of round. Oh, wait a minute. It looks flat there.
- [196:35]
C
This is a new camera. That's definitely fake.
- [196:37]
A
Oh, this is the real camera. That other one is. That other one is a fisheye lens. Yeah. Look at the. Where's the stars? This is. This is in a lab in Nevada.
- [196:54]
B
This is a screensaver. What is this? I think they have a payload of. Of a satellite that they're like testing. Releasing, bro.
- [197:06]
A
Imagine what it feels like looking out the window.
- [197:07]
C
The one on the right is going way faster now.
- [197:09]
B
It's humbling the.
- [197:12]
C
Almost a 6,000 kilometers an hour.
- [197:14]
A
Oh my.
- [197:15]
C
The other one's heading back down. Still slowing down. Space station.
- [197:20]
A
What is that? Is that the space station? Is that what that is?
- [197:25]
C
I hope so. I don't know what.
- [197:26]
A
She just said it. She just said it.
- [197:28]
C
Otherwise we just saw some.
- [197:31]
A
She just said it.
- [197:32]
B
Definitely a ufo.
- [197:36]
A
Is it possible they get that Close to the space station. Like, hey, guys.
- [197:41]
B
Yeah. I mean, they're extremely precise about their flight trajectory.
- [197:45]
E
Going to be 13 of those center engines igniting again and that will then go down.
- [197:52]
B
So you would. Would you ever fly on one of these?
- [197:57]
A
No, no, no, no, no.
- [197:59]
B
How much. How much would you. How much would I need to pay you?
- [198:02]
A
No, no, no, no, no. I'm already rich. You can't get me with that.
- [198:07]
B
That's the one thing.
- [198:08]
A
Yeah, I don't. I don't have that expensive tape now.
- [198:13]
B
I would love to find one of these.
- [198:15]
E
Man, that looks incredible.
- [198:18]
A
Dude.
- [198:18]
B
That's so incredibly flat.
- [198:24]
A
Look at cgi, bro.
- [198:28]
E
Firing its engines right now.
- [198:31]
A
What do you think would happen if you did send flat Earthers up in that and they got to see. Do you think they would believe what they. How many of them are schizophrenic, though?
- [198:39]
B
Oh, they'll think everything was a lie.
- [198:42]
A
Like, what percentage of the flat Earth community. Look, the percentage of all communities. It's like 1% that are schizophrenic.
- [198:48]
B
Right, but don't you think. Isn't it like across the board, something like that?
- [198:52]
A
Yeah. So it's not disparaging the flat Earth community. I'm just saying.
- [198:56]
B
Well, can you be like schizophrenic light? Can you just be a little schizophrenic?
- [199:02]
A
You definitely can. I know a dude that you got a touch. They got a touch.
- [199:06]
B
Yeah, a little bit.
- [199:07]
A
Just to touch. I told the story once. I was talking to this comedian and I've known this guy forever. I thought he was totally normal and. But he's always like, odd. And he starts showing me pictures on his phone of clouds. He's like, you see that? I go, yeah, it's gonna go through.
- [199:24]
C
A cloud right now.
- [199:25]
A
Whoa.
- [199:25]
C
It's a high ass cloud. Oh, 20 kilometers up.
- [199:29]
A
Wow.
- [199:31]
C
For that?
- [199:32]
A
That's so cool. How cool is that? This thing is gonna go land now.
- [199:37]
B
You want to make a bet about if it's gonna catch?
- [199:39]
A
Oh, it's gonna catch all right.
- [199:40]
B
Yeah, I believe so too.
- [199:41]
A
Yeah. No, I wouldn't bet against it. That'll be unamerican.
- [199:44]
B
Yeah. What do you think?
- [199:46]
A
Look how cool that is, man.
- [199:47]
B
Wow.
- [199:48]
A
They're focusing on it now. From a distance.
- [199:50]
C
It just dropped fast. It's now only 3km, 2km above.
- [199:54]
B
It's going down quick a second tower catch, bro.
- [199:59]
A
This is so insane.
- [200:02]
B
This is amazing.
- [200:04]
A
This is so insane.
- [200:05]
B
So it has this. It's controlling the position.
- [200:09]
A
Look how wild this is. Look at the tower coming in to catch it too. Oh my God.
- [200:18]
B
Yeah.
- [200:20]
A
Yeah. Wow.
- [200:26]
B
Holy.
- [200:26]
A
Now that is so badass.
- [200:29]
C
That is so seven minutes from when it left.
- [200:32]
A
Seven minutes for the whole flight?
- [200:33]
C
Yeah.
- [200:34]
A
Wow.
- [200:36]
B
That's a building. You heard it here.
- [200:39]
A
That is so dope.
- [200:41]
C
Look at the other ones.
- [200:42]
A
What is that timing and speed?
- [200:44]
C
16,000 kilometers an hour.
- [200:46]
A
Oh my God.
- [200:46]
C
140 kilometers an away.
- [200:48]
A
Wow.
- [200:50]
B
New Glenn Yesterday, Starship Today. This is why I love America.
- [200:55]
A
That's so incredible, dude. It's so incredible. Hey, the question is like how tall is that in reference to like a building? Isn't like a 20 story building or something crazy before it took off right there?
- [201:08]
B
Yeah.
- [201:09]
A
Wow.
- [201:10]
B
It is.
- [201:10]
A
Look how much bigger it is than Millennium Falcon. I like how they he compares it to the Millennium Falcon. How fucking amazing is that? What's the other one? Is that blue origin SpaceX? Oh, that's another space.
- [201:25]
B
It's bit. It's bigger than the blue origin rocket, but quite a bit. It is. I think it's the biggest rocket ever made.
- [201:31]
A
123 meters.
- [201:32]
B
Yeah.
- [201:33]
C
And that, that part right here, halfway. That's what came back, right?
- [201:36]
A
So that's got to be. I mean you think, do you think it's. It looks higher than half how many floors of like. Yeah, it's got to be 70 meters. That's so crazy. That's so big.
- [201:48]
B
Yeah, it's like 33 raptor engines. So just raw power. Just, just even one of those engines is if you ever see it live, it's incredible.
- [201:58]
A
It's so much cooler watching it actually happen live than it is watching a video. Yeah, when you watch a video you're like yeah, that's cool. But like we didn't know it was gonna happen. Yeah, that's the cool thing about live.
- [202:07]
B
Yeah.
- [202:08]
A
Yeah. That was awesome.
- [202:09]
B
That was fun.
- [202:10]
A
Let's end with that. We're ending on a positive note. American ingenuity, baby.
- [202:14]
B
Let's go.
- [202:15]
A
America on Earth, Goodwood to all.
- [202:17]
B
Love you, brother.
- [202:18]
A
Love you too, man. Thank you. Bye bye everybody.