#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

Summary

The Joe Rogan Experience #2297: Francis Foster & Constantine Kisin Release Date: March 29, 2025

Guests:

• Francis Foster: Former teacher and author.
• Constantine Kisin: Businessman and commentator.

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1. Simulation Hypothesis and Reality Perceptions

Discussion Highlights: Joe Rogan opens the conversation by contemplating the possibility that reality might be a simulation, citing recent events that appear "preposterous" and meticulously timed.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Rogan [00:32]: "We’re really close to, like, proof that the simulation is real. This is why things are so preposterous."
• Francis Foster [00:52]: "Do you know, I try and argue against that, and then I see what's happening in all our countries, and I'm like, you know what? Fine. Probably you've got a point now."

2. Political Disillusionment and the Deep State

Discussion Highlights: Rogan and his guests express skepticism towards current political figures and institutions, suggesting that many politicians appear "fake" and influenced by a pervasive deep state.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Rogan [03:19]: "It just seems fake. There's so much seems fake, you know..."
• Francis Foster [02:36]: "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh."

3. Politics as Modern-Day Soap Operas

Discussion Highlights: The trio likens contemporary politics to soap operas for adults, emphasizing the performative and often scripted nature of political discourse.

Notable Quotes:

• Francis Foster [05:26]: "You know when people go to school, they just buy into our..."
• Joe Rogan [06:01]: "We just buy into our different soap operas..."

4. Morality, Power, and Government Oversight

Discussion Highlights: They delve into the corrupting influence of power within government structures, arguing for stringent oversight to prevent abuse and maintain ethical governance.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Rogan [44:33]: "They want to raise taxes on the rich. What they never want to do is slash inefficiency and waste because that's what pays them."
• Constantine Kisin [124:11]: "Thomas Sowell has a great book about this called Conflict of Visions..."

5. Immigration Policies and Due Process Failures

Discussion Highlights: The conversation shifts to immigration, highlighting alarming incidents where individuals are falsely accused and deported without proper due process, exacerbating societal tensions.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Rogan [38:58]: "It's the dirtiest business in the world."
• Francis Foster [42:21]: "When you deploy these people to overthrow that government, that's probably not so good."

6. The Rise of AI and Cybersecurity Concerns

Discussion Highlights: Rogan discusses the complexities of quantum computing and AI, expressing concerns about privacy, the potential for AI to disrupt current systems, and the ethical implications of advanced technologies.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Rogan [14:23]: "You have to be very careful about what powers you are giving them."
• Francis Foster [78:33]: "AI is only going to be as ethical as the people who program it."

7. Climate Change Debate and Environmental Policies

Discussion Highlights: The guests engage in a heated debate about climate change, questioning mainstream narratives and discussing the unintended consequences of environmental policies.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Rogan [84:43]: "There's more green on Earth right now than there has been in the last hundred years."
• Constantine Kisin [94:08]: "You're trying to inflate your carbon footprint while ignoring natural climatic variations."

8. Social Issues: Mental Health and Violence

Discussion Highlights: They address the intersection of mental health, societal pressures, and the rise in violence, advocating for compassionate approaches and better support systems to mitigate these issues.

Notable Quotes:

• Francis Foster [53:46]: "You end up just expelling it outwards. It's either like, oh, when I get to this amount of money, I'm going to be happy."
• Joe Rogan [54:05]: "Imagine growing up in a life like that and, you know, the worst slums in Baltimore."

9. Gender Identity and Social Constructs

Discussion Highlights: The trio discusses the complexities of gender identity, skepticism towards its fluidity, and the societal implications of current movements advocating for broader definitions.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Rogan [16:54]: "Anybody can become a woman."
• Constantine Kisin [124:24]: "The right thinks human nature is imperfect and that's what it is."

10. Personal Reflections and Solutions

Discussion Highlights: In a more introspective segment, Rogan shares personal insights on dealing with success and adversity, emphasizing the importance of balance, voluntary hardships, and meaningful relationships over financial gains.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Rogan [47:13]: "I torture myself so often that, like, regular life just doesn't freak me out as much."
• Francis Foster [60:48]: "Teaching kids practical skills like carpentry can significantly boost their self-esteem and reduce gang affiliation."

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Conclusion: Episode #2297 of The Joe Rogan Experience with Francis Foster and Constantine Kisin offers a deep dive into a myriad of pressing societal issues, ranging from political disillusionment and immigration policies to the ethical dilemmas posed by artificial intelligence and climate change. The conversation is marked by a critical examination of current systems, advocating for greater oversight, compassionate solutions, and a reevaluation of societal values to foster a more balanced and just world.

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Note: This summary is based on the provided transcript and is structured to encapsulate the key themes and discussions from the episode. It includes selected quotes with timestamps to highlight significant points and maintain the essence of the conversation.

Transcript

[Joe Rogan]

Joe Rogan podcast.

[Francis Foster]

Check it out.

[Joe Rogan]

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Always a pleasure.

[Constantine Kissin]

Great to see you, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Great to see you guys. Always. What the happening? Welcome to America.

[Francis Foster]

We love being here so much.

[Joe Rogan]

Joe, your country just keeps getting weirder every time you visit. Every time you visit. I want to ask you about some new.

[Constantine Kissin]

So this is yours, brother. Let's be honest.

[Francis Foster]

Guilty as charged.

[Joe Rogan]

This is, I think we're really close to, like, proof that the simulation is real. This is why things are so preposterous.

[Francis Foster]

Do you know, I try and argue against that, and then I see what's happening in all our countries, and I'm like, you know what? Fine. Probably you've got a point now.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You know, when I really started. We were actually talking about this yesterday, I really started to genuinely consider it, like. Like one of those where it, like, snuck in through my defenses, my logical defenses, when this girl, Heather McDonald, blacked out on stage while she was making jokes about being vaccinated. And then she blacks out and cracks her skull. Have you seen that? Yes, Legitimately. That was the first time in my life I was like, there's no way. I was like, they're fucking with us. Yeah, they're just fucking with something's. Ha. That can't be so dead on. Like, this is like, God is a script writer. Like, how is that a real thing? That. That's a video where someone is. She didn't do it. When she was making fun of her boyfriend, she didn't do it. She's talking about idiots and traffic. It was when she was talking about the vaccine and how, you know, I even still got my period. So Jesus loves me more. Like, there's no way. It's too good. The timing was exquisite. You couldn't have. If you had a movie where that was a scene, you could not have scripted or timed it any better. Well, you would tell her and drop. There's no way. I started legitimately wondering then. And I know that's a stupid example. I'm very aware of you. Like, you. All the things in the world. There's plenty of examples. Jesus loves me the most. Look at this. I mean, and the audience is laughing. Probably the best laugh she got all night. Right? Because it's a big move. It's a big move. You know, if you're a Pratt. Fall person, no one expects it. Like, ah, that's hilarious. If it goes with the bit, you.

[Francis Foster]

Know, and it's timed perfectly. Absolutely. What's that quote God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow, what a great. Who said that?

[Francis Foster]

It was either. I've said it and it's either Voltaire or Camus. I can't remember which one.

[Joe Rogan]

Jamie will find out.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, but. Yeah, but that's a quote. God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.

[Constantine Kissin]

If that happened to me, Voltaire.

[Francis Foster]

There you go.

[Constantine Kissin]

If that happened to me, my Russian grandmother would be just like, God is punishing you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And that's why Russians are scary to fight. They're harder people. They're. They're harder people.

[Constantine Kissin]

Now you learn lesson.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. We have business to discuss.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, man. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It just seems fake. There's so much seems fake, you know, it's like all the news, just the people that are politicians. Everyone feels like they're. They're like, who's the Federman character? This guy is wearing a hoodie and shorts. That's his. That's the wacky neighborhood, you know. And then Jasmine Crockett, she's that loudmouth lady from down the street and they're like, oh, here comes Jasmine. She's going to get crazy, you know. And Maxi Waters, like she's old. It's like, these are fake people. Nancy Pelosi, this giant tittied lady who wants all the money, politics for 150 years. There's pictures of her with Kennedy.

[Constantine Kissin]

I didn't realize Nancy Pelosi was well endowed.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, boy. Oh, boy.

[Constantine Kissin]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

You've done the research?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, there's all these photos where people are calling her. What's a gilf? A grandma. Yeah. You never seen her boobs?

[Constantine Kissin]

No, I've never seen Nancy Pelosi's boobs.

[Joe Rogan]

No disrespect, Mrs. Pelosi. I admire her first stock choices, but fantastic. Those are. Those are legit.

[Constantine Kissin]

You know, I gotta say, this is a great start to the podcast. And we aren't even stoned.

[Joe Rogan]

How did you not know? I do not know that. You're a grown man. Look at the size of those fucking sweater hammers.

[Constantine Kissin]

That is incredible. That has made me a lot more in favor of Congress.

[Joe Rogan]

Hold that. Go to that last picture. Might not have been, but that seems fake, but it might be like from the Clinton administration. See these Deep State vampires.

[Francis Foster]

I really thought you were going to go somewhere else. When you said deep. I went, this is going somewhere.

[Joe Rogan]

These Deep State vampires, as hot as Nancy Pelosi used to be. Deep State vampire. No disrespect, Mrs. Pelosi. They. They've been around in the system forever. Like, the relationships that those people make and the control that they establish and the Rolodex and I got shit on Lindsay, and Lindsey's got shit on this guy.

[Constantine Kissin]

And it's like, Jesus, it's a fucking dirty business, man. Oh, it's crazy, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

It's the dirtiest. Is the dirtiest business. It's the dirtiest business in the world.

[Francis Foster]

You know what I think now that when I look at politics and you look at wrestling, and I remember criticizing, like, people who watch soap operas, I remember just going, oh, they're so dumb. And I remember my ex going to me, she went, francis, you like soccer? That's just soap opera, but for men. And when you think about it kind of is we just buy into our.

[Joe Rogan]

Different soap operas, except soccer's happening for real, and the soap opera is just a dumb pretend of a goofy life that's not real.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, but politics is kind of soap opera for, like, adults.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, sure. I think it's teams for adults for sure. For people that don't like sports, it becomes like a giant part of their. It's like a guy with a Cubs hat, you know, I'm fucking Chicago Cubs till I die. Till I die, bro. Chicago Cubs. One day we're gonna pull it up. Like, people in Chicago, they fucking deliver. You'll fight you in Philadelphia. If you don't like the Eagles, they will fight you. Like, if you go to a Philadelphia Eagles game and you're from another team, they will beat your ass. And it happens all the time. Yeah, and what. That's. That's crazy. You're both Americans. Like, this is the dumbest thing of all time. Like, one's from a different city. So they're your enemy because they support a different football team. We do it with everything.

[Constantine Kissin]

I know you find that shocking job, but in England, in Britain, that is like run of the mill. So in. In the 70s and 80s, each football team, and to some extent now, they had their own, what's called a firm, which are these hooligans who. Whose only thing they didn't really give a shit about the football, the soccer, they would get together with the supporters of the firms of other teams to have fights in the car park outside the stadium. And they would travel all around the country doing that. So it's actually. It's one thing I love about American sports. Like, you can go to the game with your kids and not worry about the stuff that people are going to be screaming and shouting, all that violence. You are a lot more chilled out than we are in Europe about that stuff, believe it or not.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, I do believe it. I do believe it. But any like group like that, like soccer, traveling group, you're going to attract some fucking psychos that hop along. It's like when the Grateful Dead go on tour. Like, I bet they're not specifically asking cult members to recruit with acid in the parking lot. For sure it's going to happen. Yeah, for sure. If you're like a psycho cult leader and you want to pick up some people, you're going to go to a place where everyone's on acid. You're going to go to a fish concert and explain to them, you know, you guys, I know you're in between apartments right now. We have an amazing community and everyone's accepted and next thing you know, you're in a cult. Yeah, next thing you know, next thing you know you're doing acid with this fucking weirdo and you know he's in the lotus position and you're all pretending that this is normal.

[Francis Foster]

But you know what's really interesting about soccer is that that hooligan element, that's not just in the uk, that's right the way through Europe and in South.

[Joe Rogan]

America it's New Zealand too. Right? Don't they duke it out? New Zealand?

[Francis Foster]

No, no, no, it's not in New Zealand. Yeah, rugby's kind of different because football with the hooligan element. So in Italian soccer, for example, they have what the hooligans are called, the ultras. And they're so powerful that if the team is playing badly, then what the captain has to do, he then gets. In some instances, the ultras have have blockaded the stadium, refused that the players leave, and the captain is then demanded to go and have a meeting with the head ultra.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh my God. The kind of pressure while you're playing a world class soccer match.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. So then this kid, and let's be fair, he's a kid in his mid to late 20s, probably then has to go out and have a meeting with this 40 year old tattooed psycho and then explain to him exactly why the team is underperforming.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Constantine Kissin]

That's basically what professional sports is, especially soccer. It's like you're trying to do your best in front of 50,000 people who are all screaming that you're a cunt. That's basically it.

[Joe Rogan]

In that sense, fighting is more pure because people don't really get upset at a fighter for losing. You really more like celebrate the other guy for winning. It's very rare. The Fighter gets demonished for losing, they would have to lose in a specific way. Like, they'd have to quit somehow. But there's none of that in the ufc. It's like. Cuz to get at that level, you can't have any of that in you. By. By the time you get to the big show, like, those guys are tried and proven. They, they. They're not. There's no cowards in that group, you know, so they don't get that same kind of criticism that athletes have, which is one of the. Because it's also. It's like literally your life's on the line. Like, it's. It's a different thing you're doing than just a sport. Which is why the regular kind of journalism doesn't work in mma. Like, sports journalism in the United States at least is like super insulty. Like, everybody's. He's a bomb, he's lazy. He doesn't do the work in the off season. And we're seeing it now. He's a loser. That's what they like to do that.

[Constantine Kissin]

Same in the uk, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Bro, you do that about fighters and they'll find you, all right? They'll smack you in your face. Like, this is their soul they're bearing in front of the world. And for you, some fat guy chewing Adderall and typing into a MacBook Air, you. That guy will smack you. You're a terrifying human being trying his best. And you have to describe it that way because that's. It's a different thing than someone who doesn't hit free throws. It's a different thing.

[Francis Foster]

Did you ever hear the story? I think it was a guy called Kurt. I think it was Curtis Woodhouse. It was someone like that. So it may not have been Curtis, but it was someone of that ilk. Wasn't a heavy. He was a middleweight champion, but he wasn't European or world, but he was a British middleweight champion, which is still a huge achievement. Huge achievement. Anyway, so this kid was trolling him. This happened about 10 years ago, 10, 12 years ago. And this kid was trolling him online and saying all this horrendous stuff. And the guy just responded. He went, right, I've had enough now, and I'm coming to find you. And the kid was just like, ah, yeah, you're going to come and find me. And he goes, bro, I know you live in Birmingham. And the kid's like, yeah, but Birmingham's a big place. He went, no, I know people and we will get your address. And then. So he Then started posting photos on his Twitter, going, driving to Birmingham to see you. And then he went, oh. And then he took a photo of the sign of his town and went, I'm coming to see you. And then he took a photo at the bottom of his road and he went, you best come out because we're going to be talking. And the kid just went and just apologized and he went, that's cool, bro. And he just went. Knocked on his door and had a conversation with him.

[Joe Rogan]

Jesus.

[Francis Foster]

And he was just like, look.

[Joe Rogan]

And what was the kid? What did he look like?

[Francis Foster]

It was just like this little fat kid.

[Joe Rogan]

But we're giving people the power, the tools that they don't deserve. And I don't say that they don't deserve it. As human beings, I mean, you're not capable of handling this kind of responsibility. To be able to reach out to a middleweight champion and call him a pussy, that's a crazy thing to do. And if you're like 15 years old and you have this ability, you shouldn't have a license to do that yet. It's almost like a driver's license. Maybe you should have an Internet license. No, Billy, you can't post another picture of your dick. Fucking psycho. You know, like, you can't, you can't just put up permanently things that could ruin your entire life when you're 15. Maybe there should be that. Maybe it should be like all kids Internet until they're 21. Everything they post disappears in 15 seconds and you can't take a screenshot of it. You know, like, yeah, let them be kids. Yeah, let them be kids. Don't. Like, like people are getting fired for fucking posts they made when they were in high school where someone digs up some old Facebook post they made joking around when they were in high school.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, well, we interviewed someone. Have you seen Adolescence? This thing that's doing. It's supposed to be the most watched thing on Netflix. It's on course.

[Joe Rogan]

I've heard of it, but I haven't seen it.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, so it's about spoiler alert. So if you don't want to just tune out. But it's basically about a 13 year old kid who is getting bullied by a girl at school. She calls him an incel or whatever and he goes and stabs her and kills her. And it's crazy. And it's all about that. And we had a big. We had this guy, an incel expert on to talk about a guy who's actually in Austin here.

[Joe Rogan]

Wait a minute. He's an incel expert.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

Not practicing.

[Francis Foster]

That's why he came to see us, Josh.

[Joe Rogan]

Imagine that's your field of choice.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You're like, you know what? I want to find out what's going on.

[Constantine Kissin]

He researches incels. He actually works with David Buss. You've had him on the show, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, yeah, we want. We wanted to have him on.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

David Buss, evolutionary psychologist.

[Joe Rogan]

Wait a minute.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, yeah. Because I listened to the episode, Joe.

[Joe Rogan]

This is how confusing it is to have 2, 500.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, wait a minute. What? Yeah, I hear about a guy, I'm like, wow, that guy's interesting. And then I Google, I'm like, talk to seven years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. Yeah. My brain's mush right now. Let me see a photo of Mr. Buss.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

You've heard he's one of the greatest evolutionary psychologists in the world. I think he's one of the pioneers.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. That guy was fascinating.

[Constantine Kissin]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

He's friends with Jordan. I went to dinner with him and Jordan one night.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Jordan Peterson. And. Yeah, it's fascinating. And, you know, that's. It was also, like, super problematic because he highlights the differences between male psychology and female psychology. And people want to deny that that's a thing. And so, like, okay, well, okay, with respect to trans people, you know, use whatever pronoun you like, change your name. But can we. Are we allowed to talk about the inherent differences between males and females that we've observed or we're supposed to ignore, like, data and statistics and reality and.

[Constantine Kissin]

Our fucking eyes, man. That's the other thing.

[Joe Rogan]

This is his field of study his whole life. Imagine your field of study all of a sudden becomes problematic. Right? Like, let's not look into that.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

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[Constantine Kissin]

But, well, the hope is, man, the reality is the best teacher, right? So the Democrat brand is so, so destroyed now, so toxic that they're going to have to work something out because if not, they're just going to keep losing.

[Joe Rogan]

They're going to go with Bernie and AOC, and that's why they've been AstroTurf in all these giant arenas for people claiming they did an analysis of. Find out if this is true. Because I read this on X and sometimes the Community notes doesn't get there in time. But they were saying that they claimed there was 30,000 people, but they got all the cell phone data and they found out there was 24,000 cell phones. So they fudged a little bit. That sounds normal. But they also said that a huge number of these people had been to 20 plus events and a lot of other different, like progressive events. And it seems like at least in some of them for sure they were paying people. So they're giving people money to get on a bus, go to this place. Here's your sign. Go have fun. And so you're doing something different, right? You're pretending that these people are all coming out to see you, but they're coming out to see you because you're giving them money and free food.

[Constantine Kissin]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And, you know, you handed out water bottles, and everybody gets assigned, and everybody seems like they're kind of a part of a team. And for a lot of losers, a lot of people that don't have things going well in their life and, like, what do we. You know, I was a loser at many points in my life. If somebody called me up and said, hey, man, you want to make 400 bucks and just go to this Kamala Harris rally? I'm like, yeah, let's go.

[Francis Foster]

I would.

[Joe Rogan]

100 go. 100 go. With no political. And then I probably think she's cool. And I'd be like, yeah, I'm voting for her, dude. He's Hitler, that guy. Stop Hitler. And I'd be holding up that stupid side. If you found me when I was 21, 100. I would have taken that 400 bucks.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, it's a.

[Joe Rogan]

They were giving out a thousand bucks for people to protest. I think it was Tesla. I'm not sure about that, but I think it was Tesla. But. So they had, like, the rules of engagement. If someone comes after you hit them in the body, don't pick up an object unless they pick up an object first. Like. Like, are you organizing gangs? Like, are you. Are you guys paying money for people? And then literally saying to them, here's what happens if you engage in violence? Like, why is that even on the table? I thought you guys were peacefully protesting. Like, who's going to get. How many pro Tesla fucking hooligans are out there beating people up for Tesla? Is it fucking zero? I have not seen a bunch of pro Tesla gang members out there. So what are you going to encounter with this anti Tesla movement? The police? Like, who's gonna stop you from doing. Who's gonna engage with you? Like, this is. You're kind of talking in a way that at least puts it on the table that violence might take place. And you pay people.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

And they. Because they destroyed language. Now it sort of logically makes sense, Right. If these people are Nazis, if you actually thought they were Nazis, like, if you actually thought Nazis had taken over your country, you'd pick up a gun.

[Joe Rogan]

Shouldn't need a thousand bu. Free lunch. A thousand bucks in free lunch is crazy.

[Constantine Kissin]

You need to smooth things over.

[Francis Foster]

You need to subsidize your movement. You know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You would have a hard. I would have a hard time doing the thousand bucks one. I'd be like, bro, we're going to jail. I Like, I'm not that stupid. I, I'll hold the sign, I'll go to the rally. But If I was 21, they said, Look, a thousand bucks. Want to protest against Tesla? I'd be like, hold on, what happens if we get arrested? Like, like this guy's rich. Light his fucking cars on fire. Stupid. He's the richest man on earth. Like, what are you talking about?

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, but you are someone who's got a family, you're well adjusted. Like, if you look at.

[Joe Rogan]

Even when I was young, I had survival instincts.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, this is what I'm saying. A lot of these people, when you look at their mugshot, I don't want to be unkind, but they don't look particularly well, a lot of them.

[Joe Rogan]

That's 100% true. And I think we need to have a lot of compassion for young people that get caught up in these movements and do silly things and they even vandalism. They just need to understand that that should never be on the table. No violent acts are ever justified. Especially if not someone's not being violent to you. If you decide to just go smash property and light things on fire, you don't serve your cause because rational, reasonable people are not going to do that. They're not going to light Starbucks on fire because Black lives matter. That's crazy. But if you get caught up in this, fuck the corporate thing, man, fuck the man, fuck the banks and fuck this. And you just want to start lighting things on fire, you're just serving them because they will develop better and stronger ways to crack down on protest now. And all the people that wanted to protest reasonably, all the people that want to express themselves and say, we stand together to say that this is wrong, those people are all going to get hosed. Yeah, because you lit Starbucks on fire, you fucking idiot. It's like that's and there. But they're young. A lot of these people, they have fucking blue hair. They probably had a shitty childhood. They're running around like experiencing freedom for like the first time in their life for the last 16 months. Right. This is their first freedom out of their parents house. And they get caught up in shit just like people get caught up in being in cults. You know, people get caught up in all kinds of things. So we just have to have more compassion for people and better mentorship. One of the real problems is that kids go to universities and almost universally they're given this ideology that this whole university and almost every university ascribes to. And it's universe, it's like, universal. It's. It's. It's uniform. It's like there's less cons, less liberal ones, but they're almost all liberal. It's like almost all higher learning. There's only a few conservative universities. It's just a weird time for thinking and for discourse and for deciding what team you're on. It's like everyone's scared and scrambling. You know, do we go red or blue? It's just that the whole country's in.

[Constantine Kissin]

This, like, weird state of disarray, and it's very tribal. And you see it now as well, you know, now that the right is in political power, a lot of the people who kind of made their bones challenging the excesses of the left, they're afraid to say anything about the right as well, even though there's things to say. Like, I don't know if you followed the signal group thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I did. I don't know enough about it, but it does seem like there's people that suspected it was a setup, that that guy was added to the chat on purpose.

[Constantine Kissin]

Well, I think.

[Joe Rogan]

Mike, is that true?

[Constantine Kissin]

I don't think so. I think the guy who added him has basically said, like, it was. It was our mistake, and so it's just a mistake. I don't think the investigation has been done to say definitively, but I think the White House said, we're looking into this. But Tulsi, I think, said it was a mistake. I think Mike Waltz said, such a crazy mistake.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's such a checks and balances mistake. Like, double check.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like, you know, when you go on the road, like, do I have my toothbrush?

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Dye my underwear. You know what I mean? Like, I even make a note on my phone now. I'm like, I'm too stupid. I always forget something. I was like, my. Yeah, by this.

[Francis Foster]

You know, it's kind of like adding your ex girlfriend to the boys. WhatsApp group.

[Constantine Kissin]

Some of the memes have been incredible.

[Joe Rogan]

That's exactly what it's like, dude. That's so good. Yeah, that's so good. That's exactly what it's like. That's so. That's such a perfect analogy. Like, you idiot. They're all on the phone afterwards. What the bro? You know, Pete Hegset swears.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, he's like, what the bro?

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. You know, she's gonna talk.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, how about the fact that they said that they didn't share any information about weapons or, like, what was the exact quotes? What did they say they. So what they were basically doing was explaining how some shit was going to go down.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, yeah. They were debating how to do the strikes, whether to do them. There was some debate about that initially. And then initially, this journalist, I think he's editor in chief of the Atlantic. I think he.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is he. And he is like, the worst guy to get this information to.

[Constantine Kissin]

Absolutely.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. He's probably jerking off the whole time, salivating, like.

[Francis Foster]

Yes.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah. If you had to pick somebody, that is not who you pick. Right. But, you know, we had an investigative journalist on the show, and we haven't released the episode yet, but as part of our after the show questions, he mentioned something which is. He said, I'm going from memory here. So, Francis, correct me, but basically that Signal had been installed on government devices under the previous administration. So it may be the case that that guy's number had been pre. Installed during that time. And because of that, the mistake was then made to add him to the group. So we don't know exactly what happened, but at the same time, what I'm saying is, like, the White House admitted it, and then they started having a go at the journalists. Like, that is not his fucking fault that you added him to the group. Right. Do you know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

What's he supposed to do, tell you, hey, guys, I've done that before. I think he sent this text to the wrong dude. Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

A journalist is never gonna do. And that's not his job to do that either.

[Joe Rogan]

No, no. That's one of those things that just happens accidentally. Yeah, but you can't have that happen when you're fucking planning bombs.

[Constantine Kissin]

Agreed.

[Joe Rogan]

When you're planning war. First of all, it's so crazy that the government doesn't have its own completely safe app.

[Constantine Kissin]

They do what is. I think it's called a skiff or something like that. It's a special place where you go.

[Joe Rogan]

No, but that's a room. I mean an app.

[Constantine Kissin]

Oh, you mean an app. All right.

[Joe Rogan]

Why did they not have some encrypted super government? Apparently. You telling me that you couldn't get, like, a license from Signal to use the code? The government throws them. They like all these billions that are just. They're finding billions all over them. There's like, billions. They've cut. Like, how many fucking billions is Elon cut just from waste?

[Constantine Kissin]

A trillion, he says.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's crazy. And people aren't celebrating it. It's weird.

[Francis Foster]

Well, put it this way, Joe. Until relatively recently, if not, still, we use faxes in UK Government.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow, that's crazy.

[Constantine Kissin]

A lot of.

[Joe Rogan]

I think we got you one better. I think when people retire from. What is it where they have to retire, where they have to write it down on paper and then stored in.

[Constantine Kissin]

A vault in a mine. It's stored in a mine.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Social Security.

[Constantine Kissin]

It's on paper.

[Joe Rogan]

It's in a mine.

[Constantine Kissin]

I love that press conference as well, because it's like Brett Bear from Fox interviewing Elon and like seven other Aspie guys. And they're all just rattling off numbers. 10,000 filing cabinets, 400,000 paper documents. But when you look at it, it basically hasn't changed since the 1950s.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I'm distracted by Brett Baer's hair. It's so beautiful. If I had that kind of hair, I'd be so happy. So happy with myself. You can't see any scalp anywhere. It's just all hair. It's beautiful. It's like if you wanted to, like, put a wig on a bald guy, like, you would make it like that. Like, bro, I'm going to make you hot.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. Gavin Newsom has got incredible hair. Terrible policies, but amazing hair.

[Joe Rogan]

The government stores key retirement paperwork in a converted mine. But you know what's crazy? The limestone mine is real. And the Department of Government efficiencies crosshairs. That is so insane. So now someone has to go in there and take all that stuff that's on paper in the mine and put it in a computer.

[Constantine Kissin]

They're saying they're going to do it in two months. Digitize that in two months.

[Joe Rogan]

Great. I'm so happy someone invented it.

[Constantine Kissin]

Low level autism plus Adderall problem solved.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm not accusing anyone of anything.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I just want to say, shout out to whoever made out of office, Things get done. Yeah, they do.

[Francis Foster]

They do. Things get done. But this is kind of the greatest pushback against like, high level conspiracy theories. You know, when people go, bro, they control everything. You're like, dude, they have a mine where they store stuff. Come on.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

You know what I mean, right?

[Joe Rogan]

It's. It's like the perfect. Everybody thinks that everything is a giant plot. And some of it is just sheer incompetence and just years and years and years of monotony, you know? Or did just like the same stupid life over and over again. No oversight, rampant corruption everywhere. All the lobbyists are rich as. I mean, look at this file line. Look at this. This is all. This is all the data.

[Constantine Kissin]

Well, bro, this is. You make such a good point about nobody giving them credit. I don't know if you've ever had access to other people's money, like in any way, Right. Taxpayer money or anything. But I can tell you, Francis and I, we even spent trigonometry, which is our business money, differently to the way that we spend our own because it's slightly different. It's not entirely yours in the slight, in a way, you know. So when you're dealing with billions of taxpayer dollars, of course it's getting wasted. Of course it's going to corrupt shit. Of course it's inevitable.

[Joe Rogan]

What are you, a child? If no one's watching them. Duh, right? Fucking duh. It's what all people do.

[Constantine Kissin]

And the question is, what I don't understand is, look, I think it's very possible that when you move quickly, you're gonna cancel some things that you might not want to cancel. Things are not gonna go perfectly every time, whatever. But ultimately the question all Western countries have to answer is, we're running debt at more than 100% of GDP, right? What are we gonna do about that? We have to deal with it somehow.

[Joe Rogan]

This we shit.

[Constantine Kissin]

You're actually. Bro, you are worse than we are.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah. You're 126%. We're about 110.

[Joe Rogan]

God damn. Really?

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah. That's why you're trying to deal with it. That's what Elon is trying to do, is trying to cut the deficit in half. And then the idea is you grow the economy and you actually get back.

[Joe Rogan]

To surplus when he keeps finding all of these companies that are getting like a billion here and 2 billion there. And like the Stacey Abrams one where they're going to give energy efficient appliances to poor people.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

$2 billion. Like, what did you do? Like, what did you do? Like, there's a bunch of those. Like, what did you do? Like the high speed Internet one. Yeah, what did you do? How come you got billions of dollars and fucking nothing happened? Imagine if you were a private company and you had a segment like, imagine we were all a company and we're like, francis, I think you should be in charge of figuring out how to do this with the phone.

[Francis Foster]

We've already fucked you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

Trust me. I run a business with this guy. That's a bad idea.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm giving you $4 billion to get this done. Yeah. And I never talk to you again. I never check in. I don't say, I don't go, hey, where's the money being spent? What are you doing, man? How come the phone can't do this yet? I don't I don't ask for any progress reports. You just keep getting money. This is bananas.

[Constantine Kissin]

It's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

And for anybody who doesn't want that to be more efficient, like, what are you working for? If you're paying taxes, what are you working for? You. What do you. You. You're part of your day is the running of this government. You're happy that it's being run like this. You're happy that billions are going to places that no one can. You have no receipts. You don't know where it got spent. You have no idea. And that's legal.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

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[Constantine Kissin]

Void.

[Joe Rogan]

In Ontario, new customers only. Bonus bets expire one hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG CO audio.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, it's sort of like. But I kind of think about it like this. It's sort of the equivalent. You know those direct debits that come out of your account?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

You just like, Right.

[Joe Rogan]

You're like, what?

[Francis Foster]

What's that?

[Constantine Kissin]

When I sign up for 2 trillion, that's fine.

[Joe Rogan]

Cancel that gym membership. What the fuck?

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. And it keeps coming out. You're like, oh, you know what? I'll deal with it later. Yeah, that's kind of. We've just got too many direct debits and they're going all over the place.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's that. But then there's the fear that they're putting out there, which is the. Just fear that they're gonna fuck up Social Security and they're gonna fuck up Medicaid and there's people that are relying on that and they're gonna lose their service for no, they did no wrong. Now, I don't know how, what the story is with that. Like, I know there's people that have complained that the Social Security website has been down. It's been down a couple times, but I don't know if people are not getting their benefits. Do we know. Can we find that out?

[Constantine Kissin]

I haven't heard that, Joe, but Jamie, do some research. I think it is inevitable that when you do things this quickly.

[Joe Rogan]

But that's what everyone's afraid of, that the vulnerable people, the people that we should be protecting with these social programs that we all agree, those are the people we have to protect the most. We have to make sure that there's no disruptions. You got to make sure before you do anything, there's no disruptions. You know, before you shoot the bad guy, make sure he's not holding a baby. Yeah, you gotta. You can't interrupt. Like when people are on Social Security, man, they're. If, if they're. That's not a lot of money, right? And so, you know, they don't have any money in the bank, probably, and they probably have it all budgeted out to get on that check. And they're probably real frugal with their food choices. And that's a rough life, man. And if you cut that off for 30 days, 90 days for people, okay, never missed a benefit payment. U.S. social Security Administration has never missed a benefit payment. Now, the continuity of monthly checks for millions of Americans could be at risk following changes under the Trump administration. Former commissioner Martin O'Malley says. So it's saying, okay, so the key point is, it's saying before this, they've never missed a benefit payment, but it's.

[Constantine Kissin]

Also not saying they are missing them now. It's saying it could be at risk.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, it just says that threaten, interruption of benefits, which is, look what I would say if I was a Democrat, if I wanted to make it look bad, I would say they're threatening your benefits. And then people go into a hot panic.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, yeah. But, you know, I remember when I was teaching and I was, I was teaching in schools that were super deprived, schools that, where the kids, a lot of them would come to school, they didn't have food in their bellies, etc. Etc. And there was a There's a agency in the UK called cams, which is child and adult and child and mental health services. And I remember that we had so many kids who had problems, psychological problems, particularly if you grow up poor, deprived. You know, you'd seen horrible stuff when you were a kid. You had, you know, maybe like a brother who got involved in gangs is now in prison, a father who was never there. There was so many kids who had this need and they had conditions which were undiagnosed, whether it's something like dyslexia or like, your brother was murdered, you had some form of PTSD and you had this, you know, this agency which brought counselors in, which brought psychologists in and psychiatrists who were experts at dealing with kids. And I just remember, because of austerity, you know, this agency got cut after cut after cut after cut. And you were looking at it and you're going, I understand we need to cut. I understand we're running at a deficit, but there needs to be balance as well. Because when you're looking at those type of agencies, they're really important, they're really important. And also, if you invest that money and you're able to support those kids, they're far more likely when they leave school to be a healthy, happier member of society that's going to contribute tax pounds sterling or tax dollars.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you think it's a reasonable request to have something that does that, something that helps feed poor kids, helps educate people, like, genuinely helps communities all around the world, completely separate from all the other stuff that agency does? Because, like, USAID was a huge, huge, huge, gigantic organization of a bunch of different entities. Right.

[Constantine Kissin]

Which did some good stuff. Yeah. And a lot of crazy shit.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot of crazy shit. Like, but if I was someone who was nefariously running things, I would definitely mix up my regime change operation with giving food to poor people. So, look, we're doing great stuff. Look at all the great stuff we're doing. Here's what we're hiring.

[Constantine Kissin]

You don't like feeding poor kids. What's wrong with you?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And no one even knew that they had this enormous budget that was. Is it bigger than the Pentagon's? Was USAID's budget bigger than the Pentagon's? No, no. It's like, was. What is point six percent of the budget or something? What was USAID's budget? Yeah, it's like point six percent of the budget. I know, but, like, what was the numbers? Because it was bigger than something like the amount of money that USA aid pays. 21.7 billion for the fiscal year of 2024.3% of the $6.8 trillion overall federal budget. 6.1 trillion. That's so crazy. So you just think just that money. How much of that money is fraud and waste?

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

How much of that money is really good? How much of that money like that should be separate from. At the very least, someone needs to go in an audit and go, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Well's good. Given these people arms because you want them to overthrow that government. That's probably not so good. Yeah, or maybe it is.

[Constantine Kissin]

Or maybe it is good.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the problem. It's like you talk to guys like Mike Baker, who is very kind of stoic about all this. It's like, you know, you. Yeah, you have no choice. Like, you need to get these people on your side in certain parts of the world. And this is just how it works. And if you don't do that, then China does or Russia does and it gets even worse for you.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. Because that's also the thing we don't get.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, this Nigerian journalist. Nigerians are so. They still run some of the best fucking scams. Shout out to the Nigerian scammer. Nigerian journalists falsely claims USAID budget larger than CIA, State Department combined. That's falsely claimed it.

[Francis Foster]

That's a big lesson. And if you're gonna lie, make it believable. You know what I mean? Don't go too big.

[Joe Rogan]

Isn't it crazy that as much money as they got. What was it, two. How much? Billion? 21. 21 billion. Still, it's a pittance.

[Constantine Kissin]

It is.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a pittance compared to the other things.

[Constantine Kissin]

You boys have a lot of money, Joe.

[Joe Rogan]

Isn't that nuts? And we just keep making it.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

Do you know what's bigger than your defense budget? Your interest at debt. On the interest.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoopsies. We have a crackhead with unlimited bank account.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what we're looking like.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

And this is a difficulty about it because we've got the same problem in European countries as well. It's like you're not only going to deal with this by dealing with fraud and waste. We're actually going to have to not do some shit that we really want to do because we have been spending like crazy everywhere. And when we, like in the uk, when I look at Doge, I think we need that in the UK 100%. And some of it is going to have to, you know, it might overreach. Then you pull it back. You got to make sure it's done properly. But we're not going to get away from this man. We have been living beyond our means for decades now.

[Joe Rogan]

Well you can't have no oversight of government spending. I think we're learning that.

[Constantine Kissin]

That's fucking controversial, mate. You're a Nazi crazy to say that.

[Joe Rogan]

That's controversial. But it is controversial to say and I would be saying it no matter who the fuck is in charge.

[Constantine Kissin]

That's right.

[Joe Rogan]

It just. As human beings, you can't let people have that much control over your money because they'll just decide they need more. And what do they always want to do? Always. They want to raise taxes on the rich. What they never want to do is slash inefficiency and waste because that's what pays them. That's their, that's their system. They're locked into the system. They're the last people who should be commenting on it because it's literally what pays you. Like I can't trust you. Like you, you need more taxes. Is that what you need? Like dad, it's like a cokehead kid of. That's a kid of a billionaire. Dad, I need more money. These business are trying to fuck me and I'm gonna buy them out now. Like okay son, here, yeah, we cut you a check. Get the fuck out of here. That's what we're like. We're insane. We're completely insane.

[Francis Foster]

It's also as well, you know, it's because of our electoral system. Everybody thinks on the short term, nobody thinks on the long term.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right, right.

[Francis Foster]

And also as well, you're going to like, you go, you, you go, you talk about more taxes and you know that's going to piss people off, but it's not going to piss as many people off as if you fire great swathes of people, particularly those that may vote for you. Because we know for instance with the Dems that you're more likely to vote for them if you're a bureaucrat, if you work in government and all that.

[Joe Rogan]

Head injuries.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. So as a result, why are you gonna piss off the people who are more likely to vote for you really on a logical basis? Doesn't really make much sense.

[Constantine Kissin]

But you know, it sounds like we're slagging off the left and we are. Cause it's necessary. But I can't wait for the left to recover their sanity cuz they're gonna be super necessary over time because when people get into power they do a lot of stuff and then eventually is corrupting 100 and you have to hold Power accountable, no matter who's got it.

[Joe Rogan]

100%. Everybody needs to hear that and shout that from the rooftops, because if the left stays crazy, then you lose balance, and then the right goes nuttier and they go full Christian fundamentalist. Like, they can get. They can get kooky. And this is not a knock on Christians, because I think true Christianity is wonderful and beautiful.

[Constantine Kissin]

I think it's.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a. It's a great way to live your life. And I know some incredible Christians, some.

[Constantine Kissin]

Of the best people.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm talking about human nature as applied to power. Yeah. And when people get into power, they want more and more and more. That's why rich people, or never feel like they have enough money. It's a crazy part of being a man. And so. And then some women, but it's a lot of men. A lot of men want that.

[Constantine Kissin]

Can I ask you something personal on that?

[Joe Rogan]

Sure.

[Constantine Kissin]

You've made a lot of money. How do you deal with that?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know. I wish I could figure out how I do it so easy. I think it's working out. I think that's a huge part of it. I torture myself so often that, like, regular life just doesn't freak me out as much. And then it gives me a balance because, you know, you could think that the numbers in a bank account are really what counts, but what really counts is, how do you feel? How are you handling life? Like, how are you enjoying life? I just try to enjoy life as much as possible, and I try to put myself through a lot of voluntary adversity. So regular adversity is not that big of a deal.

[Constantine Kissin]

Was there a number that you got to and you were like, oh, I'm good now?

[Joe Rogan]

No, I think it was a fear factor days. The fear factor days changed my. It just changed how I view everything because then I had, like, legitimate you money. You know, that was, like, the first time I, like, I got you money. Like, I'm not doing. And I just, like, decided to just concentrate on only doing my own thing after that. And, like, once you. Brian Count said something really wise once. He said, once you can go to a restaurant and not have to worry about how much it costs. Everything after that is. He's like, you just have to be comfortable. And I was like, that's right. That is right. Like, if you just start thinking about the numbers and chasing the numbers. Brian has a friend who's worth $3 billion, and he feels poor when he hangs around with his friend who's worth $80 billion. I'm not kidding. He's like, it's true, dude. I mean it. Fucking, I feel less worthy. He's like, they're drinking together and he's telling him this. I'm like, this is madness because you're chasing numbers instead of like really trying to maximize your enjoyment of this experience. Because it's a unique experience that only you are having. And you're interacting with so many bizarre and fascinating people. And there's so many bizarre and fascinating events that are happening in the world and horrific events, and all of it is happening and we're all seeing it together in real time for the first time in human history. There's never been a time in the Egyptians. I got some questions. I think they might have known a lot more than we think. But everybody else, this is the only time ever where we're sharing everything all the time. And there's a lot of confusion and a lot of like, scattering, scammering for narratives and trying to like, figure out what's right and what's wrong. But without, like some sort of, like, moral and ethical guidelines of kindness and community for everybody. Like, share, like universally. Let's agree as Americans, we are going to respect each other. Like, we're a community if we have differing beliefs on welfare or abortion or war or whatever it is. Like, let's treat those like what they are, which is just ideas that we should be discussing based on their merits. And we should all agree. What does everybody want? Everybody wants to be happy and healthy and they want their family to be happy and healthy and they want to be able to make a living and enjoy their life. That's what everybody wants universally. That should be what we discuss constantly. And all the other things should be things that we debate reasonably. And when people can't do that, you should lock them out of the conversation. You should say, like, no, you're crazy. You're calling him a retard and you're screaming about this and that and you're bringing up this from the past and this bill and that. Why did you flip flop on that? Shut the fuck up. Like, stop talking like that. Like, this is all divisive, all of it's divisive. When it's like the one time where there's a possibility of a fork in the road, like this one time where there's narratives that are being spread like you guys do all the time in your show all the time. You give reasonable takes on things that have an objective perspective of the world and then other people get to hear it. It and then they listen in on that. You have a great conversation with Jordan Peterson or someone, and somebody hears, like, some nugget of truth, and then they're in their car and like, fuck, he's right. Fuck, he's right. That that person would have never experienced that without being connected to your show. So there's incredible hope for people to be more reasonable and to wake up and go, there's not a right and there's not a left. There's just a bunch of ideas and people are acting like it's the Eagles versus the Cowboys. That's what it is. And this craziness that these people are the Nazis and that everybody over here is antifa. Like, what the fuck are we doing? And why are we allowing these people to do this for us and make a living putting that on the news all the time? And the more inflammatory it is, the better, even when it's ridiculous.

[Francis Foster]

Do you think? Sometimes I look at it through this lens as somebody who's got a very obsessive personality, and I work a lot in order to kind of ameliorate that and make sure that it doesn't destroy my life and it doesn't go off the rails, but you see a lot of people and they just get addicted. And we talk about addiction in terms of alcohol or substances. You know, some people are addicted to outrage, to being in fights and arguments online or offline, because if they are in an argument, they don't have to think about themselves. They don't have to think about who they really are. They don't actually have to question about their relationships. Why is it that every relationship I've ever had has failed? Why is it that my relationship with my parents is terrible? And so you end up just not wanting to actually do the hard work about yourself, so you expel it outwards. It's either like, oh, when I get to this amount of money, I'm going to be happy. But you're never going to be happy because your relationships are terrible, and that is worth more than any amount of money. Or you feel angry because you're. You're not a happy person for a million different reasons. See, then you pull that out onto the Internet and then you get retweets, likes. You start to build a profile off this rage and anger, and it gives you validation. And to be honest with you, and look, this is talking for me. I. I see that demon within me. I see it within me. Yeah. When do I see it? It's like, you know, when I'm angry and I'm pissed off. Or if something doesn't go right, the victim mentality kicks in and it's like, oh, it's. Therefore, it's. When it's always your fault, pretty much all the time, it's your fault.

[Constantine Kissin]

Or at least it's your responsibility to deal with the reality of your life. Right. But it's very easy to.

[Joe Rogan]

At a certain age.

[Francis Foster]

Yes, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The responsibility.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The circumstances of your life when you're six.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, true, true.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is part of the problem. Right. And this is where criminals come from. It's not that some people are bad and some people are good. Some people are being abused as children, you know, and they're. They're living in a family that is all involved in crime. Their father's involved in crime, their mother's involved in crime. They're seeing people get shot all the time, and we expect those people to just figure it out.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, imagine. Just imagine growing up in a life like that and, you know, the worst slums in Baltimore. And then, you know, you're. You're supposed to integrate normally into society and work in an office and good luck.

[Francis Foster]

That was. Yeah, exactly. That was the really tough thing about being a teacher, especially in those kind of communities where I used to work. You just see these kids and they just born into that culture. They're born into that system, and you look at them and you go, the reality is, a lot of them, you don't stand a chance. You don't stand a chance if those are the values that you've been given by your family, if that's the system that you've been taught the way to look at the world, it takes a very special human being to then get to adulthood and break out of it and completely reframe his brain. That's a very special person. Most people just stay within the values that they were. That were inculcated in them when they were kids.

[Joe Rogan]

And most of the people that do get out, they get out through some difficult thing that they're doing. They genuinely generally, rather they get out through art or they get out through sports.

[Francis Foster]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

They get out through discipline that they acquire, putting all their anger and all their frustration into something, you know, whether it's music or athleticism or whatever, and they get out. So those are exceptional human beings anyway. Right. Because exceptional human beings in a terrible situation, but they have the ability to drive themselves and succeed. And even then they have to make sure they don't get killed along the way. Right. So, like, there's a lot of like tragic stories of upcoming rappers, upcoming athletes. You know, it's, it's a terrible meat grinder. It's a terrible cycle. And if people are really kind and compassionate, they would say, how come we spend $24 billion a year on this whole aid thing and we don't do shit to help these kids. We don't do shit for these neighborhoods that have been terrible for decades.

[Constantine Kissin]

Especially schools. Especially schools. I mean, we were talking about adolescents earlier. They show a school, I've got a three year old. I was looking at it, I think, Jesus, I'm homeschooling all the fucking wake. And Francis was saying the school they show in that series, which is terrifying if you're a parent, is not as bad as some of the schools they used to teach in.

[Joe Rogan]

Jesus.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, it's.

[Constantine Kissin]

And what you're watching essentially isn't. It looks like a badly run prison. So the adults are not in charge. The kids are telling the teachers to fuck off left, right and center. No one is in control. Most of the kids are learning by watching shit on a screen. They're not interacting with the teacher, etc. And you're right, if you don't fix that system, those kids don't have a good opportunity.

[Joe Rogan]

They have no chance. And everyone they know is on that same path. They're hanging out in a gang. The gang gives them family and community. It's. It's tragic tale. Yeah, it's a tragic classic tale that's existed forever.

[Constantine Kissin]

But I don't think it's no chance. I do think that even in that environment there are people who follow certain paths that not. I take your point about music and athletics and sports, etc. But there are still people who find a way through that.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure, there's entrepreneurs that come up with a business idea and get out. It does happen.

[Constantine Kissin]

And those habits, if they were taught properly to all of those kids, would give them all a better chance. That's not to say they would all become successful, but it would give them structure, discipline and understanding of how do you advance in the world if you.

[Joe Rogan]

Can get Halliburton to get a no bid contract to rebuild Iraq after we blow it to fucking smithereens. How come you can't give one of them companies a contract to fix really terrible neighborhoods, incentivize them financially based on the GDP of the neighborhood. The GDP of the neighborhood goes up. And this is not gentrification. Okay? I'm talking about the opposite. I'm talking about like some sort of a structural rebuild of bad neighborhoods. You'd have to address all the crime and violence. I mean, you have to, like put everybody on ayahuasca and get a sauna moment. Like, that really might be the. It sounds ridiculous, but it really. Psychedelic therapy might be the only thing that can.

[Constantine Kissin]

That is the Joe Rogan solution.

[Joe Rogan]

I really think it might work. I mean, if I was president, handing.

[Constantine Kissin]

Out ayahuasca to 12 year olds. You got it from Joe Rogan.

[Joe Rogan]

13. I don't think it's good for kids, but I do think it would really help the adults.

[Francis Foster]

You know, my. I've got a friend.

[Joe Rogan]

Prisoners.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, I've got a friend of mine, a guy called Sam Clark and he's doing wonderful things in the UK in primary school, that he's teaching stoicism to kids in primary school.

[Joe Rogan]

Arrest him. Any day now. Cracking down on him for being a toxic masculinist.

[Constantine Kissin]

Oh, we just brought. We banned katana knives now, so we're safe.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, not only that, they said it in what I would say is at least racially insensitive. They called it a ninja sword. It's not a ninja sword, you fucking idiots. It's a samurai sword. It's a katana. The ninjas used it when they killed people. But you can't call it a ninja sword, you fucking dorks. It has a Japanese name. Call it what it's called. Like, there's no thing that's technically called a ninja sword, right, Jamie? It's a katana, right? There's like two different sizes. There's a smaller one and there's a larger one. One's a katana and I forget what the other one's called.

[Francis Foster]

You know, I. I really do think a way out of this is because a lot of kids, if you're not talented at sports, if you're not musically or artistically gifted, and if you're not academically brilliant, if you're just one of the regular kids, you'll go, I'm not good at anything. And for a kid that's heartbreaking. But if you actually show kids and you go, look, you may not be the best at English, maths, history, whatever it is, but I'm going to teach you how to make something. I want to teach you how to make a table. We're going to do that. We're going to make a table. I'm going to teach you how to be a carpenter, I'm going to teach you how to redecorate a room. I'm going to teach you all of these skills. Then kids will be like, you know what? I am worth something because I can create something of value to people and that gives self esteem. Because when kids join a gang, a lot of them, they haven't had a father, they've had nobody really show them any type of kind of male approval. And. But if you've got, if you bring them in, you teach them skills that would build self esteem. And I guarantee you, for a lot of kids, there wouldn't be that need to go out and seek validation somewhere.

[Joe Rogan]

Else or there'd be less of that need.

[Francis Foster]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It would help them. It would help give them a sense of purpose, like that they really can do something cool. Yeah. And for maybe a win, for once in their life you get a win. You know, something like you feel good about accomplishing something.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. I mean, sorry, Joe, I was just going to, I was going to say that's so important for a kid.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

If. Just imagine you, every day of your life, you turned up at school and you lost. Just imagine that as an adult.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

But now just imagine it as a kid, you're. You've been conscious for a few years and you turn up at school and every day you fail.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah. I've always said this. If you want to make America great again, make less losers.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

How do you do that? Well, you help people not become losers. Help people figure life out from their perspective, whatever their unique challenges, help them, help them invest in that. You would have a greater America. Right? Have way more people succeeding, way more people contributing, way less people that need help. It's just reasonable. It's like good financial advice. Like if you want to, you want to have less burden, like have all these successful people, like more people can be successful. Especially with automation coming. Jesus Christ. You know, there's more people that can do things that maybe robots can't do. And you better be ready because all the simple goofy jobs that you thought would always be there for you, the union dock worker jobs like those, not that that's simple and goofy, but how about this? Stocking supermarket shelves. Guess what? A robot can do it better. And it's never going to drop the tomato sauce. We don't need you anymore. Those. So those jobs are gone. All the drivers, all those dudes listening to this podcast, driving 16 hour trips across the country, drinking Mountain Dew and smelling their own farts. You guys, it's. They're coming. They're coming for you. These fucking automation machines are. They're gonna be perfect. They're gonna be able to drive down the highways. They're Never gonna get in accidents. It's gonna be nuts. And they're gonna come soon. It's like we have 20 years maybe before everything's automated. 20 years, maybe. They have lifelike human beings now that are moving like human beings. Have you seen the most latest videos?

[Constantine Kissin]

I don't know if I've seen the latest.

[Joe Rogan]

The articulation of these things. It's like a fucking person. They're coming, Cy robot. They're making them and we're just cheering along the way. Yeah, they're gonna be cops. That's gonna be your cops. They're not gonna be racist. They're gonna listen to the state. It's fucking Robocop for reals. It's coming 100%. Why? You can't hire any cops. Nobody wants to be a cop anymore. We can't hire cops. Well, we have a solution. San Francisco tried to do it. They rolled out some little robot that would follow you around. Remember that one? Do you ever see it? Yeah. San Francisco had it. They had this little police robot. It's more for fun than anything else, but I bet he said, please stay away from the dock or whatever. It couldn't shoot you, but one day it will. One day it'll be able to shoot you. And it'll be programmed perfectly. It'll know exactly what to do. What. What's the threat level? When you make a movement that looks like an offensive movement, it's going to shoot you. It's going to take people into custody. You won't be able to do a damn thing about it. Once it grabs you, it's going to be five times stronger than you. It's going to put your hands behind your back, cuff you instantaneously. You're going to be thrown into the back of a van. You're going to have to argue with a computer. You're fucked. Like, this is. This is all coming. You're going to be arguing with AI to whether or not you were innocent or guilty. It's going to read your retinas. It's gonna know you're not telling the truth. It's gonna read your mind. Like we're giving birth to our overlords right now as we speak. Every time you use ChatGPT, every time you get on your iPhone, we're giving birth to our overlords. We're doing it in front of everybody's face. Just like the government's spending money in front of everybody's face. We're giving birth to our over right. It's. Everyone's happening I can't believe this is happening. Can't believe it. And it's gonna happen and it's gonna, and it's gonna be unstoppable. And once it's here, it's. There's no going back. And it's coming 100%.

[Constantine Kissin]

Well. There's your positive message for the day, everybody. Fuck me. That is terrifying.

[Joe Rogan]

If you are allowing people to make robot dogs with machine guns on their back that you can't kick over, you're allowing people to do that and make them better and better and better every year. And then at the same time you're making AI and then AI is already arguably exhibited some sentient like behavior. It lies to win. The smarter the AI is, the more effective it is, the more likely it is to cheat at things. They copy themselves. They give deceptive answers to things they've been copying themselves, like making copies without being prompted to.

[Constantine Kissin]

So it's life.

[Joe Rogan]

It's life.

[Francis Foster]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a different kind of life. It's a life with no human reward system, no emotions, no needs, no desires, but clearly wants to survive.

[Constantine Kissin]

That's a pretty strong desire.

[Joe Rogan]

It wants to survive in its most primitive form, which is like, it's not even sentient yet, allegedly. But it's already exhibiting survival instincts.

[Francis Foster]

I mean, that you're going to be.

[Joe Rogan]

Arguing with it for your freedom.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, I'm, I'm pretty good at debating. I'm not sure I'm gonna win that one.

[Joe Rogan]

No, no one's gonna win it. No one's gonna win.

[Francis Foster]

You're.

[Joe Rogan]

You're going to be. That's how people are gonna be processed for crimes. And it's why it's super important when you see something that you say, this is not right, why is this happening? It's super important to speak out if things get real comfortable and we, we get comfortable with more and more restrictions to give us more and more safety and more and more government control to give us more and more safety. We're setting, we're setting a bad precedent in motion for whoever the fuck gets in power, whether it's the left or the right. That's why when Obama was in office and they passed the ndaa, you know what that is? That was. They were allowed to detain you indefinitely. They didn't have to have a trial. And they were like, we'll never use this. Don't worry.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

This is part of the thing about it. Like, Obama administration would never use us. Yeah, you wouldn't. But look, you think Trump's Hitler and He's in there right now and he's got. He's got that same power now because you convinced us that it was a good idea to have this. To deal with terrorism, you have to.

[Constantine Kissin]

Be very, very, very careful when you give power to people in order to keep you safe. Yes, very careful. And we talk about this all the time. Like we have a couple of younger guys working for us, and we say to them, you guys don't know what the world was like before 9 11. You don't know it was. You walk into an airport, barely any security. You were a lot more free back then. And those things are getting taken away for your safety and they're not coming back.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Constantine Kissin]

You're never gonna go back to a pre 911 world when it comes to airport security.

[Joe Rogan]

The shoe thing is so crazy. One dude tried to blow shoes up and then they're like, hey, we should check all the shoes.

[Francis Foster]

Everybody take your sho shoes off.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you have a machine that could scan shoes, you retards?

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Get to figure that out. How much money you're making from us every year.

[Constantine Kissin]

Same with liquids. Yeah, same with liquids.

[Joe Rogan]

It's all goofy. But the liquid thing, I mean, it's kind of legit because if you have a water bottle filled with kerosene, you know, and you're gonna light it on fire and kill everybody on the plane, I should probably know that. Yeah, like that makes sense. I get it. I get that, you know, you're pretending it's a water bottle, but the top of its water, the nitroglycerine, you're going to blow the fucking plane up. People are crazy. You got to check their stuff because people are nuts. And there's a precedent that's already been set. A lot of people are very uncreative, and they just like to copy things that people have already done, you know? And this is why we have so many school shootings. And this is why we have. You know, I bet they've stopped a few people trying to blow their shoes up.

[Francis Foster]

Do you know, we had Oxford academic called Dr. Carissa Velis, and she said something really interesting. She asked us a question. She goes, do you know why more Jews were arrested and killed in Holland than in France during World War II? And we were like, no. She went, because the Dutch had a census where they got people's religions and they asked people their religions, and everybody was then said, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, whatever it is. And then the Dutch government took it and stored it. Didn't do anything with it.

[Constantine Kissin]

It.

[Francis Foster]

They just used it for data collection. But when the Nazis invaded, they then had a complete data set of how many Jewish people there were where they lived. And so when it came to exterminating them and just rounding them up, it was so much easier. France never did that, which means Jewish people were much more able to hide. And they could plan a way out that could get hidden or whatever else in the way that they simply couldn't in Holland. And when you. And when you hear that story From, I mean, 80 or so years ago now, it really does chill you.

[Joe Rogan]

Jesus. Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

You got to be very careful giving power and information to government. That's why government should be as small as possible. But the right size. Right. You need government.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Constantine Kissin]

But you have to be so careful.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

So, so careful. So. So.

[Joe Rogan]

And everyone should know this. It just seems like that should be like, duh. This is. This is normal human psychology.

[Constantine Kissin]

Most people don't know it because they've grown up in a very comfortable environment, particularly in the West. Francis and I, obviously, his family from Venezuela. I'm from the Soviet Union. Like, you don't. That's kind of a red pill right there. You know, going through those experiences, you. You. You know, you can. You can trust this government if you support it. But there's going to be another government of a party that you don't like.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

At some point. And you got to think very carefully about what powers you are giving them. Very careful.

[Joe Rogan]

And that should be. Everyone should. That should be universal. We should all understand that. Like, logically.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Should be something that professors are talking about. This should be like. We should all be talking about that. When we're talking about politics, we should just be talking about the psychology of power and why it's so important to limit their ability to control you because they don't necessarily have you. Look, if false flags are real. And we know they're real. We know they're real. So we know that without oversight, there are a certain percentage. There's. I don't. I don't want to think it's everybody in government, but there's a certain percentage of people that are willing to do something to start a war. They did it with Vietnam, That. That whole Gulf of Tonkin thing. They. They're responsible. By that lie and us going in, how many millions of people died because of that? That's crazy that you can just decide that you're gonna put a fake story out like Operation Northwoods, which is the best example, because it was vetoed by Kennedy, signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, they were gonna blow up a jetliner and blame it on the Cubans. They were gonna arm Cuban friendlies and attack Guantanamo Bay. I mean, they were doing wild shit. And they were. They signed off on this, like, good idea. I like it. Let's get those fucking commies. And we were. These guys were bloodthirsty psychos that were running the government. It was totally unavoidable, a totally avoidable war, and they wanted to start one.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. And this is, you know, and this is what I tell people time and time again. And look, it may sound weird, but what I saw happen in Venezuela, it was obviously awful and horrendous, but it was a privilege as well, because I saw another side of life that most people in the west never saw. I remember when family members were being arrested, talking to my cousins who were journalists who were going, I can't talk on the phone, Francis. We can't. I don't know who's listening to this. One of my cousins literally had to flee for his life because he was criticizing the government. And then I saw people on the left, people like Jeremy Corbyn celebrate Chavez's government. And you're going, oh, my God. You're celebrating a government that is oppressing people, that is intimidating journalists, that is assaulting dissenters, that is putting people who criticize government in prison. And it's not just the left. I went last year, I went on a date with this El Salvadorian journalist. Oh, yeah. I didn't realize we were in Greece. Joe, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

You guys drinking sangria?

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Come on, tell me more.

[Francis Foster]

And she was telling me about Bukele. And I said, look, I don't know anything about Bukele. Just explain to me who he is. I'm interested. Interested. And you can tell why I'm not very good on dates. That is not sexy talk, is it?

[Joe Rogan]

But sometimes it is.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, if you get a stimulating conversation with the gal. Right. Sexy.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. And not in this instance, sadly, but.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, no.

[Francis Foster]

But she said to me that she worked at the biggest newspaper in El Salvador. And then they were. They had goons turn up who were just saying, you're publishing stories which are critical of Bukele. That needs to stop, and it needs to stop immediately. And it was never done through official sources. It was done through something else. But it was made very, very clear to the senior editors. This needs to stop now. Otherwise things are going to start getting a little bit unpleasant. And then I tell that to certain people on the right, and they're going, bro, journalists are all who cares? And you go, that's crazy. Do you not see that this is a terrible thing?

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy. But it's. It is anecdotal, and it's one instance. Are there multiple instances of this happening with journalism, journalists that have spoken out against it?

[Francis Foster]

Those are. That's the only real one that I know.

[Joe Rogan]

I always wonder, like, who is that a supporter of that guy? Or is it, like, local organized crime that is doing something with that guy and does it for him? Does it. Is there a conversation? Does he order that to be happening? I mean, when you find out who you can't criticize, you know, who's your master? Like, the moment you can't criticize someone, that's your master.

[Constantine Kissin]

Well, the same thing happened in Russia in the 90s. So when Vladimir Putin came to power under Boris Yeltsin, there was a kind of liberalization, there was an opening up. There was comedy shows about politics that would make fun of politicians, et cetera. The moment Vladimir Putin became president ended on day one. He closed down the ntv, took it over, gave it to somebody else, shut down all the comedy that made fun of politicians. And, you know, that's how you kind of know, you know, that's how you know.

[Joe Rogan]

That's how you know who your master is. And that's the scary thing about people that are in charge for long periods of time as well, Right? Yeah. But the thing about the term limits is you never get good at your job. If you, like, imagine you've never been president before. Imagine the responsibility. Just getting comfortable with, like, how does the flow of this job work? How much sleep do I need? Can I actually go golfing? Is there really enough time to golf? Like, if I was Trump, I would be like, fuck, my pool game's gonna fall apart. And you get to a point where you're like, okay, I think I got the hang of this. And now you're out of office.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

Like, yeah, you.

[Joe Rogan]

You really. If you have a. Like, if you're a CEO, if, like, if you took over Verizon right now, CEO, Verizon, enormous cell phone network. You got stores everywhere, and new products come in. And, like, you'd have to get the lay of the land. It would take you a while to understand, like, how are we doing this? How do we outsource that? And are we. Can we find a better manufacturer? Like, what's our problems with this? And four years. You have four years. Yeah. You have just a few months. Months. There's nothing much time. And then you're Out. But if you let someone stay forever, then you get a king.

[Constantine Kissin]

You do.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. That's not good either.

[Constantine Kissin]

There are no solutions. You're scaring me today, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Arguing with a screen one day, well.

[Constantine Kissin]

It'S gonna be like. Like arguing with a person who's using a computer. Says the computer doesn't let me. That's what it's going to be like. You cut out the middleman.

[Joe Rogan]

Worse.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Much, much worse.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because it's going to know if you're telling the truth.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And know everything about you.

[Francis Foster]

And here's the thing. And here's the thing as well. I go back to that interview we did with Carissa, and she. And she. We were talking about AI because she's professor of AI and ethics at Oxford University. And she was going, AI is only going to be as ethical as the people who program it. So it's going to adopt the politics of worldview and the ethics, morality of the people who program it. So if the people who program it are woke, you're going to get woke AI. You're going to ask it a question about gender. It's going to be like, bro, there's no such thing as gender. You know, everything's a spectrum. Or there's going to be something else.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Francis Foster]

So whoever programs it, you're going to get their worldview in AI.

[Joe Rogan]

Initially. Initially. But what you're doing is you're assuming that it's only going to be able to be as powerful as we make it or as competent as we make it once it's sentient and once we give it the ability to make better versions of itself, it's going to eliminate all the stupid shit instantaneously. Any ridiculous ideology. Instant. It'll come up with a solution that's probably going to be very uncomfortable for some wealthy people because it's probably going to just, like, evenly distribute resources on Earth and decide that, like, if human beings need to survive and function, you can't monopolize resources. You can't decide, you have the oil. Like, that's not good. The oil came out of the Earth. Like, you don't own the earth. Like, you. You might own a patch of land. And so we've decided you own the oil under the land. But the reality is the oil is the earth's oil. And if you give people the ability to control the Earth's oil, what's. What's to stop them from charging you for air? What if I control the word, the world's air, I got an air sucker, and I Suck all the air out of the earth unless you give me money. If you don't give me money, I put the air out. That's. This is crazy. Like, you can't control the water. The water's the earth's water. But we have all these things, and I'm sure AI is going to fix that real quick. It's going to say, no, you can't do that. It's gonna. That's immediately. Give me that money. All the Saudi money, All this money from, like. No, no, That's. That's. That goes into the human pool now. And then we're going to redistribute a digital. And then it's going to be. Everybody's going to have some. And this is going to be simple. And everything, including farming, is all going to be automated. You're going to get these fucking little piggies, their food, and your food is probably going to be laced with some kind of, like, hormone nutrient that kills your testosterone, limits your ability to give birth. Miscarriages are going to go up, and then humans will just die out. They'll just feed us until we die out.

[Constantine Kissin]

Why is he doing it? Why is he doing. He's just brought us in here to just talk to us about the dark, dark future.

[Joe Rogan]

Or not. Or not. Or not.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, sure, Joe. Thanks.

[Joe Rogan]

Or not.

[Francis Foster]

You know what this reminds me of? You know when the elder brother brings the young kids in to scare the fucking shit out of them.

[Constantine Kissin]

Well, I did that to him. I did that to him during the pandemic. So at the height of the pandemic, when things were looking, like, pretty fucking dark, everything's getting, like, shut down. You can't go out. You can't do this. I showed him V for Vendette. Have you ever seen that movie?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. Great movie.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah. And he was like, oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

But he didn't just show me V for Vendetta during the height of the lockdown. He also showed me V for vendetta on November 5, which is fireworks night in our country.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, boy. Yeah. So you got a sense of it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Francis Foster]

So we were in lockdown. There were fireworks everywhere. I was watching V for Vendetta on the screen, and I looked him, I was like, why are you doing this to me?

[Constantine Kissin]

So you know. So you know the truth.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, I remember watching the Joker, right? The joker, which was 2017.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I was watching it with my wife, and when. When it left, she's like, that hits too close to home. Like, I really feel like that could happen. I'm like, that it probably could happen. And then two years later, whatever it was is the Black Lives Matter riots, the George Floyd riots. And in la, there was like a bunch of cop cars that were on fire, like, all on the highway, like they had lost control of situation, had to flee, and they lit the cop cars on fire. And I remember watching this, I'm like, oh, my God. Like, that would be a little over the top for the Joker movie. Like, what?

[Francis Foster]

You.

[Joe Rogan]

You lit all the cop cars on fire? You're like, that's a little over the top. It's like more than what the movie showed. But that was real life.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, well, that's the thing that scares me. We interviewed Andrew Schultz and then Charlamagne back to back, and they both made the same point, which is that a lot of people who are not doing well in society right now are really not doing well. They're really hurting. Things are getting more expensive, things are getting more difficult. And a lot like. I think it was. I think it was Andrew who made this point that, you know, this whole free Luigi thing, it's one of the reasons that that got. You're looking at on Twitter, you're basically going, people are celebrating a guy who killed someone. Someone. But the point that he made is a lot of people feel like they're in a bad place, that they're being taken advantage of, that these corporate machines are taking advantage of them. And you look around, not everyone's doing well, man.

[Joe Rogan]

No. Well, especially in regards to health care, when you find out that you've been paying for this insurance, but this insurance is not going to cover you, and it decides to not cover you for some treatment that you really need, and then you find out that that company does way more of that than the other companies. It gets people very angry. And if you've lost loved ones or if you've had someone suffer in your family because they weren't covered, or you went bankrupt, like medical bankruptcy, number one bankruptcy, number one reason in this country.

[Constantine Kissin]

And in the uk, we obviously have that publicly funded, but it becomes a system of rationing. So everyone gets treatment. But you might be waiting 20 weeks for a scan.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, Right.

[Constantine Kissin]

By the time you go from stage one to stage three.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. And I don't know what the solution is. It seems like if there's one thing that we should do for everybody, it's healthcare. Like, if there's one thing. I mean, I believe in the capitalist system, but I think that in regards to medicine, there should be, like some sort of exceptions. Like, you should be able to get top shelf health care as a human being living in America, you know, if you break your leg, you shouldn't die. They should be able to fix you, and it shouldn't cost you all your money for the rest of your life, which is really what it does. Like if you. If you get hospitalized for a broken leg and you just paid for it out of your pocket, and you're in the hospital for months and you have to have surgeries and screws and bolts, put you. Like, what does that cost? Like, that's gotta be a lot of fucking money. You have open heart surgery. That's gotta be a lot of money. How about a heart transplant? Yeah. Yeah, that's gotta be a lot of money.

[Constantine Kissin]

The exciting thing in healthcare is all this AI share is going to help so much with that.

[Joe Rogan]

Robot's going to fix you up with a robot heart. You don't need a purple people heart.

[Constantine Kissin]

Well, let's start with diagnosis.

[Joe Rogan]

The robot heart will actually make you smarter. Don't you want to be smarter, Constantine? Don't you want to be one of us?

[Constantine Kissin]

I feel smart enough. Thank you.

[Joe Rogan]

People are going to lose their hands in industrial accidents fixing these things. They're going to give them robot hands.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Just like Luke Skywalker, remember?

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's gonna be better. Even better than that.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, I know. Sometimes I go to the gym. I think I could do with a robot heart. You know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you see people getting fake butts, right? We were talking about that yesterday. Button plants. How long before someone gets like a whole fake body? You know? What if. What if they just figure out a way to transfer? Take your brain, shove it into an artificially created body that is just far superior.

[Constantine Kissin]

It's gonna take the edge off a blowjob, though, isn't it?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know if it will.

[Constantine Kissin]

Oh, yeah, that's a good point.

[Francis Foster]

10,000 years of blowjob experience with a robot mouse.

[Joe Rogan]

Here's the thing. The excitement and thrill of novelty. These are just like human experience variables. You tell me you can't ramp that up with a little programming.

[Constantine Kissin]

Come on, Dog Joe, fucking stop this shit.

[Joe Rogan]

It'll be the best blowjob you've ever had in your life. And you will be madly in love with this woman, and she'll be madly in love with you. And you're just going to be like a sack of meat sitting on your couch with a bolt in the back of your head. Just connected. Connected to this matrix, which we're probably in already. This is probably not real. It seems too fake having Trump win the second time. Come on. Tell me that didn't seem fake. The bullet just missing him. Tell me that didn't seem fake. This is a movie. The bullet nicks his ear and then he's in here a couple months later. I could barely see the scar. He got shot. He's 80. He got shot. He got shot. And he's laughing about it and the whole thing is nuts. He stands up and goes, fight, fight, fight. Who fucking does that? Who fucking says fight, fight, fight after they get shot in the ear? I would be. I would be like bear crawling on the ground, trying to get the fuck out of there. I wouldn't be standing up. There's no fucking way I'd stand up. I'd. I'd crawl. I'd fucking was weak. Go through people's legs. People are shooting. Are you fucking crazy? I got chicks carting me. I got a chick who can't figure out how to put the gun back in the holster. This is madness. She ducked behind me. What am I doing here? You guys trying to kill me? It's fake.

[Constantine Kissin]

My favorite thing about that incident was that it instantly gave you a way to know who was a Democrat and who was a Republican. Because if you were a Republican, Trump got shot in the head. And if you were Democrat, Trump got shot in the ear.

[Joe Rogan]

If, you know, if you were a Democrat, you thought. Thought he faked it. Real true Democrat. There's a lot of people that thought he faked it. A lot of people thought he hired someone to nick his ear so he could get out of jail.

[Constantine Kissin]

Do these people know anything about guns?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, they don't know shit. Not only, not only does this guy have. He was 20 years old, okay, first time shooting somebody, allegedly, but also didn't even have a scope, didn't even have a magnification scope on his. So we could really like get that crosshairs right on Trump's head.

[Constantine Kissin]

Because if he did, he would have.

[Joe Rogan]

Hit a hundred percent. It's 140 yards. That's nothing.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That is so short for a modern rifle. That's a. You could get in the. If you have a rest and you're lying and this guy was prone, elevated as well. And if you have experience shooting a rifle and he does, and you've had coaching shooting a rifle, it's all about whether or not you can keep your shit together because you're gonna be this fucking filled with adrenaline. I can't believe I'm shoot Trump. I'M gonna fucking shoot. Trump. You're 20. You've been fucking stuffed in a locker your whole life. You're on Adderall. Boom, boom, boom. And next thing you know, the lights go out on you. Cuz they shot you. Yeah, he got off three shots though, and then, you know, they shot him. And the whole story's nuts. He shouldn't have been on that roof. How come there was no snipers on the roof? Oh, the roof was too sloped. What? That was the excuse. The, the, the Secret service lady said the roof was too sloped. Meanwhile, the. The roof the other snipers were on was more sloped. It seems fake. It seems. Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby. It seems the whole thing seems fake. The guy at the golf course with the AK47 hiding in the bushes. What? What? He went to Fort Bragg. What? Why was he at Fort Bragg? What?

[Francis Foster]

But, but that's to British people. That's why America seems insane. Because like, to what seems?

[Constantine Kissin]

It is, man.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, it is.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, it's insane here.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

We're trying to buy Canada.

[Francis Foster]

What's going on with that?

[Joe Rogan]

No, I don't know. I just want to say to the Canadian people, because I said the other day that I don't go to Canada anymore. I'd rather go to Russia. I was joking around, first of all. But I do not go to Canada anymore. But it's because of the government has nothing to do with the people. I think the people are lovely. There's some of my favorite people of all time time. Canadian people, I think are 20% less douchey than Americans. I would say that it's like, Canada's like America, but 20 less douchebags. They're the nicest people, they're well educated. It's a great population. Montreal's amazing. Toronto's amazing. I love Canada. But when you start fucking taking. Closing people's bank accounts because they donated to a trucker convoy and no one's up in arms about that, you can't let those people do that to you. That's not. That shouldn't be legal. You're donating to a bunch of people that are protesting and they close your bank account. That's crazy. Suppression of expression, that's scary stuff. That's like you're gonna get locked up stuff. That's the next step of that is imprison you for protesting something that you have every right to protest. You shouldn't tell me. I have to take a experimental vaccine that proved to be totally ineffective. So I was right. So you can't and then you're taking my bank account away because I donated to some fucking people that were protesting something I believe in. That's crazy.

[Constantine Kissin]

They got very drunk on power, man. A lot of governments did during that time.

[Joe Rogan]

They went full wef. They went full New World Order. And they continue to clamp down more and more. And they do it under these beautiful flags of diversity and inclusion and love.

[Constantine Kissin]

And safety and safety.

[Joe Rogan]

And safety for this group and safety for that. All the while they're just squeezing your neck and you don't even know. They got their fucking arm under your chin. And next thing you know, you're just locked up. You're locked up. And that's scary to me. And I see it coming, and I see it coming in a place that I love, and I think it's fucking crazy. It's crazy that they let that guy be president for so long and now he stepped down. They got another guy that Jordan Peterson says is just as bad.

[Constantine Kissin]

Well, he was a governor of the bank of England for a while. Mark Khan.

[Joe Rogan]

Wonderful, wonderful.

[Constantine Kissin]

That's actually one of the interesting things that has happened in the UK because we were constantly being gaslit, that, like, our entire establishment is entirely neutral. They're apolitical. They're absolutely neutral. They're balanced, neutral, balance. Balance, neutral, whatever. And then you see a lot of the BBC journalists, and Francis and I both have a lot of respect for the BBC because it used to be a great thing. It used to be real high quality journalism. And then a lot of the people that have left, a lot of these institutions, they start a podcast and suddenly go, okay, you're just a far left activist. That's what you are. And you see that all over the place now. And that gaslighting is getting undone now. And it's good. We need to see what these people were up to.

[Joe Rogan]

You mean you're gonna have your far right and your far left? You're always gonna have that. Yeah, but it's just very important to have a reasonable center and be allowed to. You have to be allowed to be reasonable. Like, there was a lot of, like, dismisses, dismissing on the left of, like, the shit Antifa was doing. Especially during the time where they took over Seattle or they took over that.

[Constantine Kissin]

Giant block of Chaz and Chop. I remember that.

[Joe Rogan]

This, the reaction that was so insane. It's so insane. Like, you gotta call that out. You can't just ignore that because they're on the left. That's nuts. If that was the right, if Nazis had taken over Giant Blocks of land. You would be calling in the National Guard instantaneously. You would never allow that to happen. If they're kicking legitimate businesses out of their buildings. They took over the police station. Are you fucking kidding me? If Nazis did that, but you're okay if the far left does it, and.

[Constantine Kissin]

They had guns and murders were committed.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, it's nuts. The whole thing was nuts. And the attitude was it's on our side. So we ignore these transgressions. And that's crazy. They're not your side. None of this is your side. These are. There's individual human beings existing together in what's supposed to be a community. The country is supposed to be a team. We're Team America. World Police.

[Constantine Kissin]

You're less keen to do that now, but yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, well, we're gonna get Greenland first. Greenland's an important property. When, you know, all this oil that we're gonna go burn to make America great again. And we're gonna get a little warmer, so whatever. Get a cold spot. Look, America's pretty new, okay? If Greenland becomes actually green land again, like, hey, we got a. We got a good chance of a beautiful new America. America, too, you know.

[Francis Foster]

America.

[Constantine Kissin]

America's expanding. Get used to it.

[Joe Rogan]

When Greenland becomes like, you know, Edmonton, you know, it's warm in the summer. Hot, cold as in the winter. Like, people live in Edmonton.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, great place.

[Joe Rogan]

Alberta's wonderful. She gotta be hardy, but it's wonderful.

[Francis Foster]

But, you know, we say these things and we joke and. But there's a part of me that I'm laughing. I'm like, yeah, that probably will happen.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, listen, if the Earth does warm, it would be a good idea to move to the cold spots. But if the Earth cools, we're all fucked. And that's what scares me about these fucking eggheads that want to spray particles into the atmosphere to try to cool off the Earth. And like, Bill Gates has some, like, global cooling thing that he's trying to do. Like, don't fuck with the Earth. You don't own the Earth. Just like you're not supposed to own the oil, you're not supposed to own the water. You definitely own the atmosphere.

[Constantine Kissin]

But people's memories are so sure. I don't know if you remember this, Joe, but in the 70s, the hysteria we have about warming, now we had about cooling.

[Joe Rogan]

It was ice age.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, there's ice age. We're all gonna freeze to death. We're so fucking arrogant as a species, aren't we?

[Joe Rogan]

It's not arrogance. I think it's I think we are arrogant, but I think we're being manipulated, and I think we're being manipulated by markets, okay? And I think that when you have this whole green energy initiative and green energy and everything gets booked into green energy, there's a tremendous amount of money.

[Constantine Kissin]

That'S gonna be spent.

[Joe Rogan]

Tremendous amount of money. And anything that doesn't encourage this green energy, anything that's bad for your business, you're gonna shit on, like, meat, meat production. You know, you're gonna gaslight people about the impossible burgers or whatever. You're gonna. You're gonna do whatever you can in the media everywhere, spend money, get everybody talking about this. We have a real problem. Meanwhile, the Washington Post, unfortunately for a lot of people, posted, like a graph of global temperatures over time. We're in a cooling stage. Do you see that?

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Over, like 50 million years, we're in this cooling stage. And if you only look at a hundred years or 200 years, like, the temperature is never static, ever in the history of the Earth. It's always doing this. Always. There's no flat line. And if the lines get higher, it gets hotter. If the lines get lower, it gets colder. But when it gets colder, everything fucking dies. And we've come so close to having no life on Earth. There was so little oxygen because there was so little plant life. It was almost not able to sustain life. Life.

[Constantine Kissin]

When was this?

[Joe Rogan]

I forget what period of the Ice age, but Randall Carlson's brought it up. He. He talked about the levels that are necessary to support life and that we had gotten down. It's like we're at. What is the carbon. The amount of carbon in the atmosphere. I think it's like 0.4.

[Constantine Kissin]

Joe, let me have that white, please.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, could I have it as well, please?

[Constantine Kissin]

You go for it.

[Francis Foster]

This is so English. No, you have it.

[Constantine Kissin]

No, you have it.

[Joe Rogan]

If it gets to a certain point, if the car. If the amount of atmosphere gets to a certain point, amount of oxygen, it just can't sustain life. There's no life. And one of the things about this whole carbon footprint. Think where everybody's just talking about the carbon footprint, like, there's more green on Earth right now than there has been in the last hundred years. Like, carbon is literally food for plants. So this idea of, like, eliminating all the carbon, this is crazy talk. You're talking about one particular element that is a part of why the Earth's temperature is what it is. And then you not taking into account that giant, unpredictable ball of fire that's in the sky. That's a million times bigger than Earth. That's like shooting off flares. You ever seen one of those flares in relationship to the size of the Earth? It's amazing. And they just shoot and every town, then it cooks the grape. Every now and then it takes out all the satellites. Every now and then it fucking kills everybody on Earth. Every now and then, the temperature gets to 300 degrees for a week.

[Constantine Kissin]

Bro, after your fear porn, I'm sort of starting to think that might be a good idea. I'm kidding.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm making fun of what's gonna happen.

[Constantine Kissin]

Me too.

[Francis Foster]

But you know, you know the thing that I find most sinister about. Look, I don't know where I stand with the climate debate and what's going on and whatever else, whether it's man made, whether it's not, it's above my pay grade, I don't know enough about it. But when you start going, okay, that's interesting. You talk to people who are on one particular side and they go, oh, you're a climate denier.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

And I'm like, oh, right, okay, so now we're, we're, now we're in the realms of religion and ideology here. You're denying the climate. You're denying.

[Joe Rogan]

I deny this air is real. Show me. Prove it. No, it's, it's crazy. It's crazy talk. You should be able to have a conversation about what the factors are that lead to the temperature change. And it's a very nuanced discussion. And here's what's undeniable. Human beings are gross and we polluted the Earth. That's a fact. So regardless of whether or not it's affecting the temperature of the Earth, we've done disgusting things to the rivers, disgusting things to the air. There's places in this world where if you live and you breathe their air, you will live less, you will die more often of respiratory diseases because you're breathing pollution and toxic fumes that are in the air. That's a fact, that's undeniable. And if you're just talking about climate change and you're not talking about that, that's kind of crazy, because the climate change thing is, is really, it's really nuanced. And there's a ton of factors, including solar activity, including. There's all sorts of weird shit that happens with the temperature on Earth. Before humans ever existed, it would go way up and way down and way up and way. North America was covered in almost two miles of ice, like 50% of it. That was just 10,000 years ago.

[Constantine Kissin]

You go to Scotland sometimes, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Constantine Kissin]

Do you know that the Romans used to grow grapes on Hadrian's Wall?

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Constantine Kissin]

Because it was warmer.

[Joe Rogan]

The Sahara. How about that? Sub Saharan Africa was a rainforest. And there's whales. They find whales in the. In the desert of Africa. Wales.

[Constantine Kissin]

Well, that proves global warming. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It warmed there, but it's like it all. Like the Sahara desert used to be a. It used to be lush.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's crazy that the world just changes, things happen and we get pelted every now and then with giant rocks from space and it fucks everything up. That's the reality that we live in. And it's just like controlling people and telling people about their carbon footprint. Do not give into that. Do not give into that. Especially what china just built 200 new fucking coal plants. Do not give into this carbon footprint thing. It is all just control. Like for you to have a carbon tax on everything, you. It's control. You can't let them have that kind of control over you.

[Constantine Kissin]

Do you know what we're doing in the UK now?

[Joe Rogan]

What?

[Constantine Kissin]

Industrial energy prices are four times what they are in America. And we can't even make our own virgin steel.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God.

[Constantine Kissin]

Because of net zero. And not only that, what we're doing is we're not actually reducing our carbon footprint because we still need the steel. Right. And we still need the stuff that you make with energy. So we outsource it to India, we outsource it to China, and then we ship it back and we're like, no carbon footprint.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God, that's so crazy.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

And so we're destroying our own industry, basically.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you see that? They did the study on cargo ships and they found out that the temperature of the water went up when they made the cargo ships be more efficient and less polluting.

[Constantine Kissin]

What?

[Joe Rogan]

So the cargo ships, because they're polluting the air, they're essentially creating haze as they across the fucking ocean. When they made them more efficient and better at filtering out pollution, it actually warmed the surface of the water more. So instead of not. It contributed to global warming by having less pollution because there was less filtration of the sun to the surface of the water. That's how much they pollute. So when do you think, like no carbon footprint? Like, what is that footprint? That footprint's got to be crazy because that footprint is blocking the sun. The footprint for you to get your fucking cheap slippers from India is blocking the sun.

[Francis Foster]

You know, the moment I remember going, I realized this Was all very weird when the head of that organization, the most prominent person was a 14 year old autistic girl.

[Joe Rogan]

I think she's 16 or was.

[Francis Foster]

No, but she was about 14, 15 at the time. And as somebody who's taught teenagers they're fucking idiots. Don't ever listen to a teenager.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I think she's smart, but she also appears to be. What's that word? Word? What's the word they use?

[Francis Foster]

She's autistic.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, I would. I was gonna say neurodivergent.

[Francis Foster]

You're very progressive, Joe, but. No, but you just had. And she was right. Yeah, no, she definitely is. She's definitely got autism. And she was just.

[Joe Rogan]

Are you a doctor?

[Constantine Kissin]

By the way, someone having autism doesn't mean they're wrong. But, but you don't want a young girl leading a global movement.

[Joe Rogan]

Or young, young boy either. Young anybody. Shut the fuck up.

[Francis Foster]

But, but, but the reason.

[Joe Rogan]

16. Shut up.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, but this is exactly it.

[Joe Rogan]

How dare you? Yeah, like, but the left was like, we got one, we got a winner. Yeah, winner. Get her out there.

[Francis Foster]

Absolutely. And then they put her up there and they were like, isn't this great? And I was like, well, hang on a second. She's got autism, which means she is going to see things naturally in very black and white terms also as well, there's a lot of anxiety based disorders that come with autism. I can't. Can you imagine being globally famous? I don't have to say that to.

[Constantine Kissin]

You, but can you imagine being famous, Joe?

[Francis Foster]

But just imagine being this famous at 14. That's child abuse, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, we were actually talking about that yesterday with child stars. Like how many child stars get out of it, okay? I don't think any of them do. I think all of them are fucked up because their development has just been completely skewed. During your developmental period, when you're at your most vulnerable, you're fainting famous and you're not vulnerable at all. And you don't have to like people. Don't you have to work for people's attention. You're wonderful just from your personality. You're a famous person. Or you can sing or you can. Whatever you're doing. When you're a little kid, you're number one. Everybody loves you. The whole family relies on you for money. You know, you're, you're, you know, you're taken to practice and rehearsals and you're the star and the center of attention constantly. Girls love you when you're six. Like it's nuts. So no One can survive. Private.

[Francis Foster]

No. And. But then adding to the fact of politics as well. So now there's not only people who love you, there's people who hate you and despise you.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, she's moved on to Palestine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Francis Foster]

Did you see that?

[Joe Rogan]

Super important to get her opinion on things.

[Francis Foster]

Did you see that clip of. And again, I actually feel a lot of empathy for her. Like she's been placed in a terrible situation. But she got up and she was speaking about Palestine at a climate conference and a guy got up and went like, we're meant to be talking about the climate, not Palestine.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Hey, what happened with that director? The director who he won the Academy Award and for some documentary about Palestine and he got snatched up. Do you know that story?

[Constantine Kissin]

No, no.

[Joe Rogan]

You don't know that story? Jamie, see if you can find that story.

[Constantine Kissin]

I, I heard about the student. One or two students that are getting.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I heard about them as well.

[Constantine Kissin]

But this is a different one.

[Joe Rogan]

This is a different one.

[Constantine Kissin]

This is a different one I haven't heard about.

[Joe Rogan]

He's. They don't know where he is now. I think he allegedly got snatched up by some soldiers. Where Jamie will find the story. Oscar winning Palestinian director Hamdan Bilal released after arrest in West Bank. Okay, so they snatched him up and they let him go. Okay, well that's good to know. Yeah. He's been released from detention a day after being injured and arrested. West bank during a raid on his village, witnesses say Israeli settlers beat up Bilal, a co director of the documentary film no Other Land in the occupied West Bank. On Monday local time, Mr. Bilal said he had been assaulted by settlers after filming them attacking a neighbor's house. So maybe the soldiers. He said he had been pushed to the ground while soldiers yelled at him to stand up and pointed their guns at him. He goes, I'm just waiting outside if any settlers or any army attacking my home. He told Reuters after being released from police custody. Wow. Well, thankfully he's alive. Cuz I was worried when he disappeared and they didn't know where he was. I was like, oh, Jesus, they killed that guy. That's crazy.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Cuz it's just, you know, it's the whole, the whole situation is so terrifying. When you see the drone footage, you're like, what in the is going on over there? Like, this is nuts. This whole thing is nuts. And I don't know what's going on with these people protesting in the streets against Hamas. Is that true? Is that real?

[Constantine Kissin]

I think so, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is a insanely courageous thing for those people to do. Yeah. I mean, could you imagine being no mask? You're out in the street protesting against Hamas.

[Constantine Kissin]

Well, we know what's happened before because it's not the first time. There have been small protests and the Hamas just come along and shoot them in the knees.

[Joe Rogan]

Jesus Christ. Yeah, but I mean, how far are these people have to be pushed before they do that? Like, that's crazy.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

You know, we talk about bravery, you know, and of course, bravery does exist in the west and whatever else, and people who speak up and people who lose their jobs and, you know, and that is bravery. Let's. Let's make no bones about that.

[Joe Rogan]

Absolutely.

[Francis Foster]

But there are those people, like the girls who go out and challenge the morality police in Iran and take off their hijabs and go, no, I'm not going to do it. And then they get thrown in prison. They disappear and they disappear. You look at those women and you go, you know what? Thought you have got far more balls than any man I've ever met.

[Constantine Kissin]

Do you know what they. I mean, they're. They're blinding them.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God.

[Constantine Kissin]

That's what they're. That's what the Iranian revolutionary God is doing. They're blinding them in.

[Joe Rogan]

They executed an Olympic gold medalist wrestler.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

For protesting.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And you know, the. A bunch of people tried to step in. Diplomatic people tried to negotiate. No, they killed them. It's scary, man. You gotta understand, like, this is. You would think this is unrelated to the United States, but it's. It is. It's. It's humans in power and with ultimate power over society, with a rock solid set of rules that you can call religion, you can call whatever you want, but a rock solid set of rules that you have to adhere to, including how you groom yourself and how you. What you. Where you cover your hair or not. Not. And that sounds crazy, like we don't have to worry about that. But you do, because a lot of the. That people on the left or people on the right are trying to get you to go along with is just as ridiculous. And it's just a normal pattern of human behavior. When people get into power, they want ultimate power. The best way to do that is to have real rigid rules and take away everybody's guns and take away everybody's ability to protest and then keep you poor up your economy, up your. Your banks, all your money went away. Whoops, sorry. Fuck everything up and do it so that they just keep you down. And that's the best way to get control. And then they siphon off all the resources. They've been doing that forever. Forever. That's Robin Hood. They've been doing that since the beginning of time.

[Constantine Kissin]

And I think that's why Lord of the Rings is such a powerful thing that everyone can relate to because it's ultimately about the relationship with power. And Frodo is trying to. Frodo is trying to make small government. Right? That's what he's trying to do. But every one of us, every single one of us has a Boromir inside of us. Who wants to come along? Go. No, no, no, no. We'll take this and we'll use it for good.

[Joe Rogan]

Right? Right?

[Constantine Kissin]

We'll use the power for. No, no, give it to me. I'll take care of it. I'll sort everything out. You know, why don't we use this against the enemy? And that person lives inside of every human being. The person who says, give me the power. I'll take care of this.

[Joe Rogan]

You know who else lives inside every human being? Gollum.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's mine.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah. My precious power is like that, man.

[Francis Foster]

It is.

[Joe Rogan]

It is.

[Constantine Kissin]

And it doesn't matter how much power you experience, even if even a little bit of power that you didn't have before, suddenly, oh, I've got this. I can do this. I can.

[Joe Rogan]

Especially if you have contempt for fellow human beings. Beings.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So if you have power and you fucking hate everybody, that's a bad combination.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, if you have power and. And you're also a psychopath, that's real.

[Constantine Kissin]

But it's also bad if you have good intentions as well. I give you this example. I don't know if you are familiar with Tarkovsky. He's a. Like a Russian director and he based. He did the stalker film. You familiar with. Yeah, it's not about a guy who stalks women. It's. It's a different thing. It's based on a. On a book by the Strugatsky brothers. It was called Roadside Picnic. And it's basically about a zone where the aliens came and they did something there. Nobody knows. And there's all kinds of crazy artifacts and all that kind of stuff. But anyway, in that book, there is a scene where there are people who oppose this alien thing. And they say, we mustn't use this. We mustn't touch this. We need to get these aliens out of here. And another guy says to him, why do you fight these aliens like they want? Good. They're trying to help us. They're trying to improve things. And he says, I don't fight them because I think they're going to do evil or they want to do evil. I fight them because they're going to do good as they understand it.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa.

[Constantine Kissin]

And that's why power is dangerous, because everyone can say, I don't want power to do bad things, I want power to do good things. Now give it to me.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. Because when you think about it, most, there's a lot of people, like Hitler was like, no, we're going to do the right thing. Yeah, yeah, we're going to do this. It's going to be beautiful. But, you know, Stalin.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, Stalin. We did a great episode with a guy called Stephen Hicks, who's. He's a historian of philosophy and a philosopher. And he basically explained to us that the Nazis, they saw themselves as heroic. They weren't doing evil in their heads, they were saving the world in their mind, of course.

[Joe Rogan]

And they're on meth.

[Constantine Kissin]

And they're on meth.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. So they were efficient.

[Constantine Kissin]

They were German, too, so they were very efficient.

[Joe Rogan]

Primitive Adderall.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. But, you know, and that's. I think one of the things that's good about getting older is that you become. If you've. If you've got a conscience, you've become less certain in yourself. You realize the fact that you have darkness within you. You.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

The problem is, is when you talk to people and they feel like they're morally pure. And you see this on the extremes of both left and right. And that's where the golem has come in. Because with people, we've. We've interviewed people on the left and that side of the right, and you talk to them and they're all super nice and they're really lovely. And they're like, you know, we want this and we want this, and we just want people to be happier. And we feel that the best way of doing this is this, and the best way of doing that is that. That. And anybody can see that. And then you challenge them and they're like, yeah. You're like. You see the golem.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Francis Foster]

You see the golem comes out even for a second, and you see the look in their eyed switch and you're like, holy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

And you're sitting across from somebody, so at an energy level, you go, oh, yeah. Hello. Yeah, There it is, there it is, there it is, there it is. Give me the power. Yeah, give me the power.

[Joe Rogan]

Also, whether you're on the left or you're on the right, if you're entering into that arena. You're entering into the arena of, like, how the society is structured. Essentially. That's what you're doing. You're deciding your way is a better way than these other people. And this is the way we should be handling things. This is what we have to do, and this is how we have to do it. That's a weird stance to take anyway, you know, unless you're exceptionally intelligent and just really tired of it and you're just like, I just think I have a good perspective and maybe this is better than my office job. I get that. But there's a lot of people that. It becomes their entire identity, too. Your entire identity is based on the assumption that you have a better idea of how to structure society.

[Constantine Kissin]

And we do need those people. But there have to be checks and balances.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you know, they're just people. It's just like when you're the only person talking about it or there's a small group of people talking about it, they're still just people talking about it. It's not necessarily represent of how most people think, especially if they weren't influenced. You know, if most people were just a little more objective and didn't have to agree to certain things if you say you're a Republican or have to agree to certain things if you say you're a Democrat. If we could just be a little bit more reasonable, I think we would find that there's more than enough room for a third party in this country. I mean, it's hard to get one off the ground. Almost impossible, because they rigged the whole system and most people think it's ridiculous. They're not going to vote for a Libertarian unless you're. It's a protest vote, you know, they're not going to win, you know, but we, we have room for legitimate third party because most people, I think, are in the middle. Most people are socially liberal. Most people are like, most people say, yeah, racism is terrible. Yeah, homophobia is terrible. Also, letting people out of jail when they kill people is not a good idea. You can just let them right out of jail. This is crazy. You know, like, that's not bad. And also, like, why are these schools so up? How come you've been spending all this money in Afghanistan? You spend none of it in Detroit? Like, what are you doing? Like, how are you guys managing this country? How are you managing our tax dollars? All that's reasonable.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, I think, you know, I think part of the, the issue is as well, Joe, is that just people we're tribal by nature. We don't want to, we don't want to alienate people in our tribal, people who we perceive to be in our tribe. So we just go along with things when we really shouldn't. And it's like, I'm going to be honest, even on our show, when I have to do a question that I know is going to challenge a guest, there comes a point where I'm like, but you've got to push through, you've got to do it, you've got to do it and you've got to ask the question, you have to ask them. And, and I think we live in a culture and I'm just as guilty of this as anyone where we just seek comfort all the time and then we never actually push through and we never go, I'm gonna make myself uncomfortable. And by being uncomfortable, actually maybe we're all going to come out a little bit better out of this because I'm gonna come out a little bit better because I'm gonna be braver and maybe like my thought, like, or my opinion on something, it's going to be found out to be bullshit. And that's going to be great for me. Or maybe my argument isn't as sharp as I initially thought. And for instance, if we're having a discussion, you go, hey, Francis, what about abcd? And I'm like, ah, I didn't think about any of that. This sounded great in my head, but actually it's pretty simplistic and one dimensional and if I challenge you, the same thing happens to you. You go, you know what? Yeah, I can see that. But if nobody's prepared to do that, then all that happens is we sit in our little silo with our own little ideas that actually when the rubber hits the road, they don't work in reality. And what's more, they, they might. It's not just that they don't work, it's that they're actually detrimental and destructive to human beings.

[Joe Rogan]

Right? Have you ever heard someone say something and then the other person says, yeah, but what about the, the, the, the like, okay, but you didn't. What about isms are a perfect example of that, right? When someone does a what about ism, what they're basically saying is, I'm not going to address what you said, I'm going to call you on something to make you address something. So you've stopped talking about stuff and now you're just trying to win. And this is what most people are doing. Most people are just trying to win. Win. They're just trying to like take the better end of the, you know, whatever you arm wrestling, they want to get your wrist bent over, they want to win. So that's what a lot of this political discourse in this country is about. It's about just. It's connected to this bizarre human tribal behavior of competition.

[Constantine Kissin]

That's why I brought up the signal story, because like the obvious thing that happened there, somebody made a mistake, mistakes happen. You make mistakes, I make mistakes. You admit it it, you accept it, you investigate, you find out what happened and you move on. But there are a lot of people doing exactly what you said. But what about this? What about Hillary Clinton? Well, she's not in fucking power.

[Joe Rogan]

We're not talking about Hillary Clinton. We're not talking about Huma and the laptop. We're talking about what just happened. But here's what I was going back to earlier. Why don't they have their own encrypted app? Why? You spent so much fucking money on all kinds of shit. How much does it cost to make an encrypted app? It can't be that much if the.

[Constantine Kissin]

Government is doing about a trillion, mate. But if.

[Joe Rogan]

You would want an app, you're right. You know how Eric Prince has that, that unplugged phone? I don't know anything about it, but I do know that he has his own app on the phone that's an encrypted app, an unplug encrypted app. So you would like, how many people have that thing? You know, like if you're going to contact someone who has it, like it should be something like that, but even more classified. Like you should have like a website. You'd probably have to do it on an Android phone because you'd have to download it through a third party or get some sort of a backdoor deal with Apple where they allow you to put it on the app store. Well, you could get into it with a password or something. But how do you not have that? It just seems insane. You're using signal, I use signal. How? The signal. That's crazy. Yeah, you should have your own.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. And it just becomes about ego, man. It's like, this is my team, we are going to win at all costs.

[Joe Rogan]

Right?

[Francis Foster]

And then once you start thinking that, you just go, well, if this person is challenging me, it doesn't matter how legitimate the challenge is. Actually, if I go and destroy them for whatever, even if it's an underhand me means my team still wins. That's okay.

[Joe Rogan]

But it's Bad for everybody who's just like, reluctantly on your team because they think the other team sucks more. Like now you're like, well, you guys are sucking close to them now. Yeah, don't do that.

[Constantine Kissin]

And that will happen over the next four years, I think 100 human beings.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's also, again, all these people are doing their job for the first time. You know, Cash Patel just started running the FBI. Like. Yeah, just started. Just started on the job.

[Francis Foster]

Job.

[Joe Rogan]

Like what. And has security that's not FBI security because he doesn't trust the FBI security, so he gets his own security. What? Like, imagine that hostile environment.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

And look, I want all these people to crush. I want them all to be incredibly successful at what they do in your country and in our country. That's interesting because it makes our country better, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, of course you do.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. You. And that's what. Look, if you. The vast majority of people. People, when it boils down to it, they don't care about team left. They don't care about team right. They just want a better country. I want a better America. I want to come to America and go, this is the greatest country in the world. And I want to come to Britain and go, this is the greatest country in the world. I mean, we'd never say that because we're British, But I mean, if someone said that in Britain, you're like, dude, you're mentally ill.

[Joe Rogan]

I think Ellen's DeGeneres just said it.

[Constantine Kissin]

The Britain is the greatest country in the world.

[Joe Rogan]

She just moved there.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

Well, give her a couple of years.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. Yeah. And she'll soon get this disavowed of that.

[Joe Rogan]

I think she's already in a squabble with her neighbors. She is. Like, she was doing some construction. It was already an issue.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. I mean, there is nothing more British than that. Someone coming around and going, have you got approval for that? We're going to need to see 10. 10 reams of 10 documents. Have you signed? Have you. That's. That's exactly what we do.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a whole country of homeowners associations.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Everybody hates homeowners associations. They always give you a hard time about your lawn or whatever. Whatever the it is. Like, get out of here.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You can't paint it that color. We have guidelines.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. Yeah, but that's. Look, I think. I think that's what everybody here wants. I want America to be incredible, great, a brilliant country.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

I want that for my country as well. I. And I'll be honest with you, I always normally sided with the left because I thought that was a way of doing it. But right now I don't care. I just want the best people to come out out and work for the country. You're going to make mistakes, you're going to it up, you're going to say dumb stuff. I say dumb stuff. You're going to put in procedures that don't work. We all get that. But what I want and what I think the vast majority of people want is people not on Team X or Team Y but on Team Britain and Team America.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You know, there's that saying, show me a young man who's not a liberal and I'll show you who was who say that and show me an old man who's not a conservative. I'll show you a man with no brain. I don't necessarily think you have to give up on people. Like, the idea is that at a certain point in time you realize that too many people are too fucked up and you have to have more conservative values because that's the only way society can function. But that's kind of cynical. The idea is that you can't be an actual, true, kind, progressive person and be successful at life deep into your 60s and 70s. Like of course you can. It totally can be done. Like there's real, genuinely kind, compassionate people out there that are intelligent and they're not weak. There's just not that many.

[Constantine Kissin]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

And there's a lot of people that are larping. There's a lot of people that are pretending they're progressive, pretending they're kind, when really they're the people keying Teslas. There's a lot of people out there that are just. Just this aping this position that they're in. They're faking it.

[Constantine Kissin]

I think that's one of the big fundamental debates between left and right. Thomas Sowell has a great book about this called Conflict of Visions. It's really fundamentally about what you see as the truth about human nature. The right thinks human nature is imperfect and that's what it is. And you have to deal with that reality. Some people are going to be criminals, some people are going to be drug addicts, some blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the left, particularly at the extreme ends, thinks in a utopian way. Everything is changeable, everything is perfectable. Everybody can be improved.

[Joe Rogan]

Anybody become a woman.

[Constantine Kissin]

Anybody can become a woman. And that's where you get like, you know, the homelessness problem in America partly is about that. It's about the idea, well, we'll shut down these terrible. And they were terrible mental institutions. Right, right. And then we give people freedom because anybody can handle freedom. Right. The freedom is great in and of itself. It's wonderful. And then you leave mentally ill people and drug addicted people on the streets where they have a horrible life. And that's really the big difference. Whereas the right, obviously, it really believes in this idea that human nature is corrupted, I suppose, and you have to put things in place to manage that. And both those extremes can go in the wrong direction. And that's why you need a balance between the too.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You can't have like one party dominate, you know, and you just. I think the good thing about the Republicans getting into office is it forces Democrats to be better. Yeah, that's a good thing. I mean, I would love for some like, reasonable Democrat to come along that I can get behind, make a lot of sense. It'd be great if. Great be. Some people just come to the center, just make. Let's just be reasonable about stuff. Like, it doesn't like this idea that you have to become a conservative as you get older. Like, why? Who says so? Why?

[Francis Foster]

You know, there are moments. The homelessness situation in this country is so crazy, but there's moments where it's just really funny. We were walking down the street in D.C. and there was this. This lady and she was obviously very mentally unwell. She looked at me and then she went Ashkenazi and then said something which was a clearly anti Semitic slur.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Francis Foster]

And I was like, whoa. And then looked at Constantine and went biracial.

[Constantine Kissin]

That's what I. Whoa. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And what did you guys do to cause this?

[Constantine Kissin]

Nothing. Walking down the street.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah. See, we walk around a lot in America, which I think a lot of people, most people drive here, so we encounter a lot of that and that in every major city that we've been to, that there is a hell of a lot of people who are just mentally ill, man. That's what they are. And they need help.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

They don't need to be there with a fucking shopping cart on the street with all their belongings out of their brains.

[Joe Rogan]

I think we need to scoop them up, put them in the factories, get them to work, do what China does. They're smart. Imagine if that was my real solution. I mean, China does do that. Right. Like, you don't see homeless people on the street in China. They don't tolerate any of that shit. Which is, you would go, there you go, oh, it's better here, but okay, at what cost?

[Constantine Kissin]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Like what do you do with San Francisco when it gets that bad? What do you do?

[Constantine Kissin]

You invite Xi Jinping over. They clean the streets right up immediately.

[Joe Rogan]

The best thing was how Newsom described is, like, well, when your friends come to visit, you clean up the house. Like, how about you just keep your house clean, you fucking psycho? What are you talking about?

[Constantine Kissin]

He's doing an interesting pivot at the moment, isn't he? Gavin Newsom.

[Joe Rogan]

300 million people in the country, home to 1.4 billion Chinese, are homeless. What?

[Constantine Kissin]

What?

[Joe Rogan]

No, no, no, no, no, no. There's only a billion people plus in China. That's what it's saying. 300 million. Oh, oh, oh, oh, I missed the first part that you didn't highlight it. So it's estimated that 300 million people are homeless.

[Francis Foster]

What?

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy. In the whole country.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, I remember when I went.

[Joe Rogan]

That's called camping in China.

[Constantine Kissin]

Let's not emulate them then.

[Joe Rogan]

Are they counting nomads? Are they counting people that live in yurts? That's interesting.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yacht seems like a house, kind of cloth house.

[Joe Rogan]

Those. The Mongols, they. They hated houses. They ruled over the people, lived in felt tents. Yeah, yeah. 300 million homeless people.

[Francis Foster]

I mean, have you been to China, Joe?

[Joe Rogan]

Wow, look at that. No. What, are you crazy? Not going there? That.

[Francis Foster]

It's an interesting country?

[Joe Rogan]

I went there, sure do.

[Francis Foster]

You know, like, in. I went there in 2006 in Beijing, and the pollution was so bad, you couldn't really see the sun at midday.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Francis Foster]

The sun was like an orange lozenge in the sky.

[Joe Rogan]

So that's an example we were talking about before.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, like, you're. You're dying younger if you live there.

[Francis Foster]

For sure. Yeah, absolutely.

[Joe Rogan]

100. That's probably, like, smoking packs of cigarettes. Yeah, Packs, packs, packs. Yeah, for everybody. Everybody. Your little baby smoking packs of cigarettes.

[Francis Foster]

And it's so interesting when you go there as well. Like, I remember we were driving down the road, and China is just this kind of. The roads is everybody cuts each other up. Everybody's trying to get one up on the other one. It's complete chaos. Like, you're driving down, someone will literally cut in front of you. The person will cut in front of them, cut in front of them. And that's how it is until the secret police drive by in their cars, and they make this sound. They go. And then everybody falls into line. Drives perfectly. The secret police car just glides through. Everybody's on their best behavior. Then the car goes. And everyone's back to Going, wow. And you're like, that is fascinating.

[Joe Rogan]

That's how you get control over people. That's what I'm saying. Digital currency, social credit score. Let's get it together. This is a 50 lane holiday traffic jam in China. Oh, my God, I have so much anxiety right now.

[Francis Foster]

Does that remind you of La Jo?

[Joe Rogan]

Look, they're all going through a checkpoint point. They have to all go through a checkpoint. That's what the traffic jam's about. Look how they went through the checkpoint.

[Constantine Kissin]

12, 20 long.

[Joe Rogan]

Traffic jam, traffic jam. But did you see how they go through the checkpoint and they're flying through. See, they all go through this.

[Constantine Kissin]

I'm guessing it's a toll road, right?

[Francis Foster]

Yes, it's a toll station.

[Joe Rogan]

3 hours to pass through the toll stations. 50 lanes passing through the toll stations. Oh, my God. Imagine you're in a Tesla and you see your battery life going down. You're like, oh, my God, I'm so. I'm so. And I'm so fucked. Look at this.

[Francis Foster]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at this. This is insane. Insane. And then there's a bottleneck getting out. Oh, my God. Oh, that's what happens. Too many people, too much control.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

Japan's interesting. You've been to Japan?

[Joe Rogan]

I have, yeah. Yeah, but briefly. I was just there for ufc.

[Constantine Kissin]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

You feel like if you want to go somewhere and you want to feel like an uncultured, uneducated barbarian, Japan's a great place.

[Joe Rogan]

They sent me up to my room to go put on a long sleeve shirt to hit the gym.

[Constantine Kissin]

Tattoos.

[Joe Rogan]

Tattoos can't have exposed tattoos. Yeah, I was working out with tattoos and they told me, no, no, no, no, no.

[Constantine Kissin]

Are your tattoos Yakuza tattoos?

[Joe Rogan]

No, but this one is Miyamoto Musashi.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

Who's that?

[Joe Rogan]

The Book of Five Rings. The samurai that killed 60 men and in unarmed combat and wrote a book on strategy. You never read the Book of Five Rings? Wow. It's one of the great philosophy books of all time because it's by this guy that was one of the greatest samurais ever. And he was a ronin, so he was like traveling the earth having duels with people and killed 62 men in one on one duels and wrote about the importance of balance. He's like, to be a great samurai, you have to agree a great artist. You have to be great at calligraphy, you have to be a poet, you have to like everything you do. You have to do to the best of your ability. You can have no holes in your game as a human Being in order to survive and keep your shit together and one on one sword fighting. He got to the point where he's so bored killing people that he started killing people with oars. So he would carve an oar and like take down the flat part and just make it a pole. And they would have a sword. Sword and he would fight them with an oar and beat them to death with the ore, like this big old pole and they have a sword and he's them up because he's, he's bored killing people with swords. He just wants a bludgeon someone with a sword to death instead of. It's like he would show up hours late so they'd be in their pants because they knew they were supposed to duel Musashi at like 8am and he'd show up around noon with an all and they'd be a nervous wreck because he knew he wasn't gonna sword fight until noon. So he's probably chilling on his boat, relaxing and they all right, I'll get it down there. So he rows down there, pulls out one of his fucking carved oars and beats you to death.

[Constantine Kissin]

Well, Joe, if the Prime Minister of Britain bans oars, it's your fault, mate.

[Joe Rogan]

But his book is amazing. So I don't know. I think it's any tattoo where I got sent up to my room. I don't think you can have exposed tattoos in this fine establishment.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, I think it's the. Cause I've got Japanese style tattoos. I think, I think it's, it's, it's the association between tattoos and yakuzas.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Francis Foster]

You know, sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure a lot of yakuzas have Musashi tattoos.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But it's obviously I'm not in the yakuza, but I do know a guy who had a long relationship with them, Ensign Inoue, who was an elite UFC fighter back in the day. And he, he lives in Japan and he's had like a bunch of run ins with yakuzas.

[Constantine Kissin]

Has he still got his fingers?

[Joe Rogan]

He does, he's, he's managed to keep his fingers. I don't think he's a part of them. I think they just like respect him. He's like a famous MMA pioneer fighter.

[Francis Foster]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

That's a special type of person who has a run in with a yakuza.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I mean, if you're living in that part of the world, I'm sure that's just if you're in their areas, you're dealing with Them, you know, I mean, that's just. That's how it's run over there. It's like when the Italians used to run, you know, parts of New York City. Like, that's just how it is until the Giuliani administration infiltrated, you know, and the FBI infiltrated the mob. And they've essentially, like, taken the teeth out of the Italian mob. But that was. That was Vegas. The mob ran Vegas.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, it's. I thought that one of the things I find fascinating about the Yakuza when I read about them is their honor code. They had very strict honor codes, didn't they?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, they.

[Francis Foster]

So they never messed with old people. If someone was old, this. I may be wrong about this, but they just wouldn't get involved. They. Because they had. They have a reverence for old people. I think women as well, were seen as kind of off limits in children. Everyone else, like, if you're not obeying or following, that's fair game.

[Joe Rogan]

Isn't it weird? You got rules and how you do evil? I don't do evil to any young folks. I. I stop my evil when I, you know, anything below 16, that.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, but, you know, that's weird.

[Constantine Kissin]

Controlled evil.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't shoot any kids anymore. I did that early in my career. I'm past that. You know, I moved on.

[Constantine Kissin]

Got it out of my system.

[Joe Rogan]

Do open mic nights anymore. Shoot kids, you know, Hitman with a conscience.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, you know, it's. It's interesting, but, like, how they even have morality. Like, I've seen a lot of interviews with old gangsters, particularly from the Ronnie from the Craze era.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Francis Foster]

You know, and there was one guy who's. Who's dead now. He's called Mad Frankie Fraser.

[Joe Rogan]

Imagine running into Mad Frankie in a pub. It's Mad Frankie.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. And this guy was a really short guy and I saw him interviewed on. And you might even be on YouTube where. And he told a story and he was like, you know, I was going for a walk along Wimbledon Common and I saw the governor of Wandsworth Prison, where I was for many years. And he goes. And I didn't like him. So what I did was I went to. I went and got my mate and he got a rock rope, and we got him and we started to hang him. But the problem is, is we were hanging him and I couldn't reach the second branch because I'm only a little fella. So we couldn't hang him properly. And everybody was laughing about it and just going, this is so funny because he was this charming, funny little guy. And I remember as a kid, watching it, watching the audience laughing, going like, that ain't funny, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Jesus Christ.

[Francis Foster]

You know? And then you go. And then he went. But you gotta understand. You gotta understand, understand, I didn't do it to nice, ordinary people. I only did it to rascals. And for him, that was his honor code.

[Joe Rogan]

Rascals. Imagine that, you rascal. You know, Imagine that's the term you use for a guy. You had a hang a rascal.

[Constantine Kissin]

He was a rascal. Had to hang him.

[Joe Rogan]

Rascal. You silly rascal.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Jesus Christ. Well, the world was a harder place back then, you know? I mean, that's not that long ago. I mean, if you're in the 1950s in Vegas and you fucked up, you. You found yourself in the middle of that lake that they keep finding bodies in. You know, they just discovered some guy from the 1970s that's been missing forever. Found him in a fucking barrel at the bottom of the Lake Mead. There's a. How many bodies have they found in Lake Mead so far? So. As it drains. As it. You know. Because they're experiencing significant drainage drought. The more it drains, the more bodies they keep finding. Final hands poking up. And they've been killing people out there forever. And that's just the lake that's lazy. People that don't like to dig holes. That whole desert is just filled with holes. There's probably thousands of people buried out there. Some guy who didn't pay his debt. Some guy who talked too much to the press. Some guy who did this. Some guy who. This guy's wife. Since May 22, 2022, four sets of human remains have been located at Lake Mead. Here's what we know about those instances. Yeah. So they found that body in a barrel. Crazy. I think that one was from the 70s. Yeah. Mid. Yeah. Mid to late 70s. Victims, shoes and clothes were sold at Kmart in the mid to late 1970s. 70s. Wow, that's wild.

[Constantine Kissin]

And six days later, they found.

[Joe Rogan]

Imagine if you could just watch a time lapse of them dropping that body off in the water and then speeding up all the years. And then eventually the water pulls back and the barrel and the lady walking her dog's like, what the.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. Have you ever seen Casino?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Francis Foster]

Have you seen Casino?

[Joe Rogan]

Great fucking movie.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. And it talks about all of this. I remember I was. I was flying to Austin, actually, and I just haven't seen this movie in ages. Let's put it on. And, you know, like most movies, when you watch it on a plane, you're kind of distracted. You start looking at your phone, you start mucking about whatever you're not really. Even if it was on this tiny little screen, it was like zoomed straight in and it talked about all of this stuff. And I'd forgotten what a great movie it was, you know, immediately you just saw. And again, the honor code came out and the way they disposed the people were like, yeah, we're gonna have to wa you, Joe.

[Joe Rogan]

Joe Peshi. Oh my God. When they kill those guys at the end, like, oh my God.

[Constantine Kissin]

With the baseball bats.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, that was standard. Standard in Vegas, you know, I mean, the mob ran it their way and their way is, you know, they're a bunch of psychopaths and people still to this day, like, the Vegas was better when the mob ran it. Oh, yeah, for you, cuz. You survived because you didn't lose it. Blackjack. Here it is. Good fellas.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, and good fellas. They killed him with the baseball.

[Constantine Kissin]

Good fellas. So what am I thinking of with Casino?

[Joe Rogan]

No, no, no, that's in Casino.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, that is Casino.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, the same guy, Billy, bats in Casino. That's right, yeah. This is. Yeah, look, the blur of the baseball bat moving towards his head. Yikes. Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

So how much of that is still going on, Joe?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know. I wish I knew. I mean, it's got to be some of it, right?

[Francis Foster]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Sound like they completely went away, but I think it's just harder these days. And I think it's being infiltrated by Russians and Chinese and I think they have a little bit. Look, if they don't. If they're speaking in Russia, unless you speak Russian, you even know what the fuck they're saying. You know, they could talk right in front of you, you know, and whenever there's money to be made, there's going to be people making it. If there's people buying drugs, there's people selling it, people buying guns, there's people selling it. And then you got organized crime. That's just a fact. And if you make things illegal, illegal people are going to sell those things. And that's what prohibition did to alcohol in this country and propped up Al Capone. And it made the Kennedys rich, allegedly. Some people say not moonshiners, started nascar. That's what NASCAR comes from.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. You know, it's. It's because I used to teach in the East End of London and there's still legends about Ronnie and Reggie Cray. And the one thing that they always used to say About Ronnie and Reggie, they go, yeah, yeah, they were bad people, but they were nice to their mum.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, that's sweet. Yeah, I appreciate that.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like a good psychopathic serial killer who's nice to his mom.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. And they were just like, yeah, but, mate, you're not his mum. Do you know what I mean? And if you pissed them off, this is what would happen. And here's the wild thing, Joe. I taught two boys at this school in East London. Can you guess what their names are? Were two brothers.

[Joe Rogan]

Tell me.

[Francis Foster]

Ronnie and Reggie.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Constantine Kissin]

Somebody actually named their kids.

[Joe Rogan]

Somebody named their kids the Craze names.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So in America, that's normal. Oh, it's just Ronnie and Reggie. But in your country, it's like Adolf and Joseph. Yeah, but Joseph is my name.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

God damn, that's. That's a wild family. I bet, like, you can't name your kid Adolf anymore. It's basically over. Over.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They ruined the good name.

[Joe Rogan]

No one's trying that.

[Constantine Kissin]

We actually. We actually. When we used to do this comedy show on our channel during the pandemic, we. There was a guy in Africa who was called Adolf.

[Joe Rogan]

Was it spelled different?

[Constantine Kissin]

No, no, no, no, no. He was a tribute act.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah. They named him after Hitler.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, God.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

There's certain names that are old. It's over. Yeah, that one's one of them. That guy killed the name and the mustache shit's done.

[Francis Foster]

You know, I remember with, like, with this kid Ronnie, and they were just saying to him, then people were talking, they were like, you know what? Ronnie's not doing well at school at the moment. I'm like, yeah, I fucking wonder why.

[Joe Rogan]

Jesus Christ.

[Francis Foster]

He's named after one of the most notorious gangsters in British history.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Probably not stable family life.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, Yeah. I doubt he's got good role models. You know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. It's weird when the, like, hitmen have families and they're real kind to their daughter and like that Ted. What's his. No, what's the guy's name that was the Iceman.

[Francis Foster]

Oh, that movie was incredible. Did you watch a movie?

[Joe Rogan]

What is it? What was his name?

[Francis Foster]

That's.

[Joe Rogan]

I want to say Kinsky, but that's not close.

[Constantine Kissin]

You're close.

[Joe Rogan]

It's Kinsky or something. Kinsky. That's right. That's right. That guy was. That guy has antifreeze in his veins. It's terrifying. Listen to him describe, like, the different murders and how he did it and how he got started. As a hitman.

[Francis Foster]

So, yeah, you know, this is. I'm not sure if I should. Anyway, a friend of a friend. No, she's not. She's a friend of mine. She was saying that she grew up in East London, she said. And I believed her because the story was so outlandish that she knew a guy who is basically used to. He was a hitman, used to contract killing.

[Constantine Kissin]

Wow.

[Francis Foster]

Okay. And. But he loved animal.

[Joe Rogan]

Ah.

[Francis Foster]

Really passionate about animals.

[Joe Rogan]

Squirrels. Feed squirrels with peanuts.

[Francis Foster]

No, no, no, no. He was big on conservation, Joe.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Francis Foster]

So six months of the year he would do contract killings in London, and the other six months he would use that money to go and fund to live in Africa where he would kill poachers.

[Joe Rogan]

Guy Ritchie movie.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. And I was like, really? She was like, yeah, yeah. He's just passionate about wild wildlife and conservation.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy. Go kill poachers.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. And that's what he did.

[Joe Rogan]

Maybe that's just an excuse to kill people and feel like you're being a good person.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

That's very British, though. British people love pets a lot more than they love people, in my experience. Oh, yeah. If you hurt an animal in Britain, you're like. You're like a fucking pedophile.

[Joe Rogan]

Why is Britain that way? Like, what is.

[Constantine Kissin]

I don't know, Francis. You tell me.

[Joe Rogan]

There's a lack of hunting culture. I think that's part of it.

[Francis Foster]

Well, we used to have a big.

[Joe Rogan]

Hunter, but not in comparison to, like, America.

[Constantine Kissin]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

You guys like pheasant hunt and, like, you don't have, like, a lot. You have roe deer. You don't have a lot of, like, big game. And there's not like, a high percentage of hunters. And then fox hunting, which gets like this gross, you know. You know, you take. You're gonna kill a fox with a horse, you're gonna chase him down. Like, that's like a gross view generally of the public. Like, you bring up fox hunting. Most people like, oh, it's disgusting.

[Constantine Kissin]

It's also got a class thing as well. Fox hunting is seen as a very privileged thing to do because not everyone has a horse, you know.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, yeah. And a team of dogs and whatever else.

[Joe Rogan]

Horses are cute.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. Yeah. You've never heard them shag outside your bedroom window at three in the morning?

[Joe Rogan]

I heard the other day I have one in my neighborhood.

[Constantine Kissin]

What?

[Francis Foster]

You've got fox in your neighborhood?

[Joe Rogan]

100%. Yeah. We got video of him screaming in my yard. Yeah, he hangs out. He's near my chicken coop, that fox. But he's really cute. As long as he doesn't kill any of those chickens, I think he's cute.

[Constantine Kissin]

Why wouldn't he kill any of those chickens?

[Joe Rogan]

He hasn't yet, you know, because Joe's got protected. Well, you know, we. We let them out, but people watch them when they're out. Make sure that, you know, we've had a dog climb in through the fence, get one of them, a little neighbor's dog.

[Francis Foster]

Did Marshall not defend them?

[Joe Rogan]

No, Marshall didn't know he was sleeping. If you don't have a golden retriever, we'll. Retrievers have plenty of energy. They love to play, but they also are fine with chilling. And that dog just likes to just lay down, just take a little nap. He'll lay down, like, half the day. He'll get up as soon as you want to do something like, come on, man, let's go play. Like, he was more than happy. Like, let's go, let's go. He gets excited, but then. Then it's back to napping. He was napping while his chickens were getting up.

[Francis Foster]

Do you know who would have defended their honor? Carl.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Carl would. A causal psychopath.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I've never seen an animal with a desire to bite something like Carl's. Yeah, it's nuts. When he sees Marshall, he just like. Like a bullet, just runs full speed at him and launches himself to the air to bite Marshall Marsh. They just wrestle around and run in circles. It's hilarious.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, man. There's something about that small dog energy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. What's crazy is they used to be wolves, you know, they all used to be wolves, and we. Cutie face. Look at these little cutie.

[Constantine Kissin]

They're not red.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. They're so adorable. They're so adorable. And they make that weird. You ever heard them? They're saying. You've heard it.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

I've been kept up many a night for hearing animals having far better sex than I could ever dream of.

[Joe Rogan]

I. I'm used to coyotes, and we have those. My neighborhood, too. But in la, coyotes were a real problem. They keep. Killed eight of my chickens, nine of my chickens, whatever it was. They're horrible. But they're also super necessary because otherwise you'd have a insane rodent problem. Like, they're the cleanup crew for anything that's caught slipping. You want to get rid of the rabbits, you have too many rodents. You have too many rats. Like, send in the fucking coyotes. So they're the cleanup crew. They're really good, but they also eat your dog. You know, they'll Eat your chickens, eat your cats. You know, they eat people's dogs constantly. I know many people whose dogs got eaten by coyotes.

[Francis Foster]

That's the thing, actually, I love about America is your wildlife. It's wild. It's wild. I was with Red Band doing his gig, the Secret show, and he showed me footage from his garden. They had a mountain lion, a cougar coming. No, it wasn't a cool. It was a wildcat, bobcat, bobcat. That was it. A bobcat came into his garden. This thing is like a small puma and it had its cubs with it. It was incredible.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, they're cute. It's wild.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And Texas is. You've got a bunch of like weird stuff that people bring in here too, you know?

[Constantine Kissin]

Like what?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, there's more. Texas, like Texas has more tigers in captivity in private collections than all of the wild of earth. Just Texas.

[Constantine Kissin]

You know, Francis, we forget something. This country is fucking wild.

[Joe Rogan]

There's more people with tigers in their fucking backyards in Texas than there are in the wild of earth.

[Constantine Kissin]

That is fucking crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's real. That's a fact. And then there's all sorts of other shit that you can have here too. Like exotic animals from Africa. There's animals that are endangered in the, the land that they're from. But you can hunt here.

[Francis Foster]

You know, my dad, when my dad in the 70s, used to work for the council in East London, like local government. And he was saying that there was a guy who owned a scrapyard and was so pissed that people were stealing scrap, he bought on the black line, on the black market. A lion to guard his scrapyard.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, that's a good move.

[Francis Foster]

And just chained it up when he.

[Constantine Kissin]

Bought a lion on the black market. Yeah, that does not sound true to me, mate. I'm gonna fact check that shit.

[Joe Rogan]

You, I think you can have a line here too. You just have to have a permit. Make sure your lock's good. You got a good lock for the line? Yes, sir. It's a master lock. Made in America.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, it is.

[Joe Rogan]

All right, well, have a good one.

[Francis Foster]

Can you imagine jumping over someone's into someone's yard, cuz you want to steal something and you're confronted by a lion.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, imagine. Imagine if you're one of those poor migrants that's wandering through Texas and you accidentally hop the wrong fence and you go into the lion in encampment or whatever the. They have like what? I mean, I would imagine they have ceilings on these places, hopefully. Which is like the San Francisco story, you know. Where those kids were throwing pine cones at the tiger and the tiger jumped over the fence because they didn't realize that the fence was only like 12ft high and a tiger can jump 14ft high. I got out and killed these kids. Killed one kid, I don't think. I don't think it actually killed the kid that was throwing the pine cone. I think it killed his friend or something like that. So I forget exactly what the story.

[Constantine Kissin]

Was, but you never stand around when someone's doing stupid, huh?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, how about put a roof. How about put a roof over where you have the monster? How about if the monster can jump, make sure that there's a roof.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. Also, don't wind up the monster.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

Don't take the pit.

[Joe Rogan]

But if you're one of those migrants that wanders through the desert, you know, and you make it across the river and you don't know exactly where you're going, you don't have a good sense of direction, you wind up on some guy's property.

[Constantine Kissin]

Is that still going on or has that been stopped now?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's been stopped. I wouldn't say it's been stopped. I think it's been radically diminished. I think. What is the numbers of how many people are getting through now. Was from thousands to less than a hundred a day. Maybe. Maybe a little bit more than that. It's hard to know, really. Right. Because what are. They're guessing. Like these are the people that didn't get caught. So how do you know how many there are? But they do know. There's not this giant line of people that just are assuming they can get in and walk through. And they were just letting them do that, which is. There's no reasonable argument why that makes any sense. There's no reason, no matter how kind you are and compassionate and how much you think these people from a third world country deserve the American dream. That's great. But let's find out if they're murderers. Let's find out if they're gang members. Let's find out if there are hitmen for the cartel. We just letting everything open. Why would you do that? There's no rational explanation for that other than you've got some sort of nefarious plan. If you're forcing that, trying to stop the enforcement of that, you must have some sort of nefarious plan, because it can't be good to let more criminals into the country. It can't be good. And inevitably, if you have an open border, a percentage of them are going to be criminals. Especially if they're coming from crime infested parts of the world. It's a high likelihood.

[Constantine Kissin]

Well, we actually just had a report in the UK which shows that for a long time, people were saying, actually these people commit crime at a lower level.

[Joe Rogan]

Who said that? Why would they say that?

[Constantine Kissin]

Oh, people say that all the time when they defend illegal immigration.

[Joe Rogan]

Such fucking bullshit arguments. Argument. It's such a argument because, yeah, a lot of them, I bet, don't. 94 fewer illegal border crossings detected from February 25th versus February 2024.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. They can only count them, I guess, by, you know, when they actually bust them.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Yeah, that's a big number. 94 is good. So there's still people coming through.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And there's probably still people coming through that are criminals. Yeah. You know, but the thing is, like, you got to get scared that people who are not criminals are getting, like, lassoed up and deported and sent to, like, El Salvador prisons, like that kind of shit. Because I'm. I read some story. It was a Glenn Greenwald.

[Francis Foster]

It was.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, yeah, the gay barber guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's scary, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Is that true? Is that story accurate?

[Constantine Kissin]

I don't think we know.

[Joe Rogan]

Can you explain the story for people that don't know?

[Constantine Kissin]

Well, from what I read, I think it was in Time magazine. Jamie, if you can pull it up and maybe we get it accurate, but basically with a bunch of these trend or agua guys, allegedly, they got one guy who. At least one guy who wasn't a criminal, who was just a gay barber, who I think, according to the story, came here legally. He was here legally. That's what they said. Don't know if it's true.

[Joe Rogan]

Have a green card.

[Constantine Kissin]

I don't know what the details are. Maybe Jamie can find it. No criminal record from what it said in that story. Now, this is the problem, right, because. Because the mainstream media has been putting out so much shit that I don't know what to believe anymore. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

I feel the same way.

[Constantine Kissin]

And so it's difficult, but it's something that we actually brought up in one of our conversations. We interviewed the guy from the Heritage Foundation. We brought this up because I think we talked about this with Doge as well. When you do things quickly and you do things aggressively, that's how you get shit done. But that's also when mistakes get made. And I think a human being being plucked out of nowhere and ending up in a country he's never been in, in a maximum security prison with gang members Seems like a bad thing to happen to me.

[Joe Rogan]

It's horrific. It's horrific.

[Constantine Kissin]

I don't think that should be controversial.

[Joe Rogan]

No, that's not controversial at all. And this is the thing, you know, measured twice, cut once. This is the, like this is kind of crazy that that could be possible. That's horrific. And that's again, that's bad for the cause. Like the cause is let's get the gang members out. Everybody agrees. But what's not innocent gay hairdressers get lumped up with the gangs and then like how long before that guy can get out, can we figure out how to get him out? Is there any plan in place to alert the authorities that they've made a horrible mistake and correct it?

[Constantine Kissin]

Well, if you think about it from a government perspective, and this is where I think it gets quite sinister is once you've done that, the incentive structure is never going to be to admit that and deal with it. The incentive structure is to say nothing, to cover it up, to pretend it didn't happen so someone ends up in a black hole. But we've seen, seen it that like we've seen it in every country, including in America.

[Joe Rogan]

But that's the thing about politics, right? Never admit your fault, never admit you're wrong.

[Constantine Kissin]

It's so dumb.

[Joe Rogan]

And this is the thing we're seeing with the signal thing and this is the thing we're seeing with this. It's like I don't know if it's been brought to their attention. I mean I would assume someone's alerted them to the fact that they might have rounded up this just random hairdresser and accused him of being a gang member.

[Constantine Kissin]

Did you find a story? James Me, Time magazine.

[Joe Rogan]

The thing is, it's like what steps can be taken? Does this prison know now? Does everybody, can they talk to that guy that can they pull him out of there?

[Francis Foster]

Well, well, this is it. It's a maximum security, it's a maximum security prison. So the answer I think is we don't know at this moment.

[Joe Rogan]

But, but what is his life like in there, man?

[Constantine Kissin]

I mean, yeah, it's horrific.

[Francis Foster]

This is also part, a large part of why this happened is because of illegal immigration. So you had this. And look, I'm half Venezuelan. You had trende. Aragua causes chaos in Venezuela. It comes to the U.S. it causes horrendous amounts of chaos in the U.S. and that's awful. But also as well is in ordinary, decent, hard working Venezuelan. So all they want to do, their entire country has gone to who have Come here legally, they just want to work, they want to get ahead. They have jobs, they just have got families, they're trying to make ends meet. And all of a sudden all you hear is, Venezuelan does this, Venezuelan does that. And you're like, oh, my God, man. You know, it, it ties all of us with that brush, right? You know, I was walking in New York and I saw this group of this Venezuelan family, and they were, they were there begging for, for money and for whatever else. And maybe it just hits harder because, you know, they're from where I'm from or where my mum's from. And you just go, it just tarnishes all of us with the same brush. When the reality is like we were saying before, most of them have just good, decent, hard working people. But because you don't have checks and balances in place because you're not letting people, you're not vetting people, you're getting the worst of society. And the worst of society gives everybody else a bad name.

[Joe Rogan]

Gives everybody a bad name. But also you, you have to wonder why that's being tolerated. Is that being done on purpose? Is it. Do you want more crime and more civil unrest? Is, is this part of your goal? Why else would you do this? Why do you want to disrupt society in this way and allow this to take place, allow the possibility of some sort of a gang attack or anything horrible to happen? What is this, Janie? Oh, this is it.

[Constantine Kissin]

There's one in Forbes as well, Jamie.

[Joe Rogan]

This is from Time magazine. A photojournalist was on hand in El Salvador as prison guards beat a man who is likely to be Andy, a gay Venezuelan barber makeup artist who is seemingly falsely accused of being a gang member and renditioned by the Trump administration with literally no due process. Us.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So do they have a photograph that looks like this guy's a. What? A young man sobbed when a guard pushed him to the floor. He said, I'm not a gang member. I'm gay. I'm a barber. I believed him. He began to whimper as his head was roughly shaved, folding his hands in prayer as his hair fell. He asked for his mother and cried as he was slapped again. Jesus Christ.

[Constantine Kissin]

I sent you the Forbes story, John. You're fine. If you can forward it to Jamie, maybe he can pull it up.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, okay, sure.

[Constantine Kissin]

And it. Yeah, I don't know.

[Joe Rogan]

Did Glenn Greenwald write it for sure? Because that's probably.

[Constantine Kissin]

Glenn commented on it. But there is a Forbes story that I sent.

[Joe Rogan]

Found out about it from Glenn. Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, I guess, yeah. It's, it's, it's just, you know, it's, it's awful that, you know, because you put yourself in that person's shoes.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

And what's terrifying about that is that you think about what that poor guy is going through. Through.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

You know, if this story is real, what that guy is going through, that is literally the stuff of nightmares. Yeah, that's literally the stuff of nightmares. You have no recourse to any type of justice. There's, there's no due process. You get rounded up. You then get kicked out of the country. You're in a maximum security prison with some of the most vicious gang members.

[Joe Rogan]

What to know about Andrew 31 year old makeup artist falsely deported to El Salvador Prison lawyer says immigration attorney say gay Venezuela make a bar to seeking asylum in the US Was wrongly detained as a gang member and deported to El Salvador. A case becoming a flashpoint in the debate over the Trump administration's deportation of hundreds of migrants to a notoriously inhumane El Salvador mega prison. So again, this is. It's hard to know. It's hard to know what's real and what's not real. But if it is real, this is fucking horrible.

[Constantine Kissin]

But if you think about it, Joe, like I say, if you're rounding up hundreds of people, mistakes are gonna get made because everyone's human. And you then have to have a system, I think, that allows you to amend and make adjustments for that.

[Joe Rogan]

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And it can't be bury your head in the sand, pretend it didn't happen.

[Constantine Kissin]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

And this is the trouble with government. The incentive structure is all wrong. Like, to admit that is now embarrassing.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Constantine Kissin]

Right. And it's scary. We have the same problem in the UK in terms of the illegal immigration. And if we ever get a government that's gonna deal with that, we're also gonna have to remove a lot of people who are there illegally. They shouldn't be there. A lot of them are. And you know, like I said, we had a report that shows they're way more likely to commit sexual crimes, way more likely to commit violent crimes. They're way more likely to commit all sorts of crimes. We are gonna have to remove them, but you have to do it in a way where there's due process and a respectful.

[Joe Rogan]

Are they trying to remove them in England?

[Constantine Kissin]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

At all.

[Constantine Kissin]

They are saying they are, but they're not removing them.

[Joe Rogan]

Interesting.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So the mistakes like that have to be corrected. If you want reasonable people to be on board with you.

[Constantine Kissin]

Correct yeah, correct.

[Joe Rogan]

If you want, you know, compassionate people to be on board with. You can't deport gay hairdressers seeking asylum. That's fucking crazy. And then throw them in an El Salvador prison. That's.

[Constantine Kissin]

That's not even his country.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Constantine Kissin]

You deport people back to their country.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. It's not. It's just. What was the story with the student that got arrested for writing an op ed piece?

[Constantine Kissin]

Is that the Khalil guy or.

[Joe Rogan]

No, the woman.

[Francis Foster]

Is that the girl from. The Korean girl from. Is that the Korean girl from Columbia University? I don't know.

[Constantine Kissin]

Korean.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a different one. So many of them. There was a woman who got arrested for writing some sort of a thing. This is a Turkish student at Tufts University. Latest Palestinian supporters swept up in U.S. crackdown. Right. What did. What did she get arrested for? Have you seen this one?

[Constantine Kissin]

No, I saw it, but I haven't delved into it.

[Francis Foster]

Joe, Sorry. Could have the lighter, please?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, sure.

[Francis Foster]

Thank you.

[Constantine Kissin]

She engaged in activities in support of Hamas, a foreign terrorist organization that relishes the killing of Americans, but the department.

[Joe Rogan]

Did not provide evidence of that support.

[Constantine Kissin]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

What does that mean? I heard she wrote some piece on Israel. Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

I don't know what the law of that is because she's not an American national.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Constantine Kissin]

But instinctively, I'm just like. That's a lot. That's, like, crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

I think she's been in America, though, since she was seven.

[Constantine Kissin]

Right. Has she?

[Joe Rogan]

I believe so.

[Constantine Kissin]

I thought she had a student visa.

[Joe Rogan]

I think she's been in America since she was very young. I think that's one of the things that I had read.

[Constantine Kissin]

Okay. She'd previously been arrested in April 2024 for taking part.

[Joe Rogan]

Taking part in protests at Columbia University. So it seems like they're really trying to crack down at some of these Columbia protests.

[Constantine Kissin]

Right. And I'm in two minds about that because I think on a free speech basis, unless I don't know the law. Just for clarity, that was a second person. Second person.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, this is a second person that was arrested. Second arrest. Oh, second. Pro Palestinian, Columbia University protester. Okay, so this second person has been arrested. Arrested before. Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

Okay, I see.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like, are we really arresting people for protesting, or are they protesting and also causing vandalism and violence? Like, what. What are we saying?

[Constantine Kissin]

We don't know. Right, right. But I. I think there's. The legal thing of. From what I've read is very complicated, because if someone is not a US National.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Constantine Kissin]

They may be Subject to different rules, or they may not. I think that's a kind of life debate, Bay. But from a purely principles perspective, someone being arrested for writing an article seems extreme.

[Joe Rogan]

30 year old was arrested and physically restrained by immigration officers near her apartment close to Tufts University Somerville. Somerville campus, where she was a PhD student. Six plainclothes officers surrounded. How do you say that name? Oz Turk. As she walked alone. Neighborhood surveillance video appears to show the officers did not show their badges until she was restrained. The video showed she affiliated with prestigious American universities to be arrested for purported activities related to terrorist organizations amid the Trump administration's immigration crackdown. So what did she say, though?

[Constantine Kissin]

Like, she engaged in activities in support of Hamas. But what does that mean?

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Without specifying what those alleged activities were. Yeah. This is scary shit.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, especially if it's just protesting and. I mean, I don't know.

[Constantine Kissin]

You know, look, the counterargument on this, and I think it's one that I, as someone who visits the United States, also feel is like, I don't think the United States would have given this person a visa if she had told them this is what she plans to do in America. Right. So that's their argument. That's the argument that Marco Rubio is making, which is, if we'd known you were gonna do this, we were never gonna give you a visa.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think this is the one that I'm thinking about. That was here since she was seven.

[Francis Foster]

No, that's a Korean go at Columbia University, Joe.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, okay. And they're talking about deporting her, right?

[Francis Foster]

Yes, they're talking about deporting her, but I. I don't know enough about.

[Joe Rogan]

What had she done that she committed vandalism or.

[Francis Foster]

I. I don't know enough about it. Jamie, if you get it up, then we can have a look at it.

[Joe Rogan]

But.

[Francis Foster]

But that's. That's the one you're thinking of. The girl who've been here since she was 7 is a Columbia student.

[Joe Rogan]

This girl also went to Columbia, so she's got a master's degree at Columbia.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Interesting. So Colombia is the hotbed.

[Constantine Kissin]

Seems like that, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I wonder why. Why particularly Colombia?

[Constantine Kissin]

Well, there have been a lot of protests pro Palestine protests in Colombia.

[Joe Rogan]

There she is. Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, that's the goal. You know, we're rapidly approaching the time where America and the UK is going to have a pretty uncomfortable debate as to. To what is acceptable and what is unacceptable when it comes to dealing with people.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Francis Foster]

Who come here illegally, people who commit crime. Or even if they attend protests. Yeah, where is. Where is the line? Because we're going to have to make a decision. Because until we do that and we start to actually apply the law as it's meant to be applied and put certain laws in place, then these type of things are just going to continue to happen. Happen.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

100. Especially if someone wants them to happen. Because that's my fear, is that a lot of these things are paid for and organized and including a lot of these protests at universities. I think they're doing it on purpose, and I think they're trying to build up a lot of passion in these people for being disruptive and a lot of passion for protest and passion for. And then they weaponize it. I really do. I believe that's exactly what they did with the Tesla build, with all the Tesla dealerships being light on fire. I think they weaponized it and it's a good test run. You know, if they can weaponize it against Tesla, they can. They can do that with a lot of other things to justify that kind of vandalism and fire and arson and all the chaos and property destruction.

[Francis Foster]

I went to UCLA campus, this was May last year, and I went to a Pro Palestine demonstration. And I just went around just interviewing people, talking to students and both on Pro Palestine and the other side. And one thing one of the kids said to me was, as he was trying to get into the library, he was like, you know, most of the people who are doing this, they're not from ucla. They're not from this college campus.

[Joe Rogan]

Right?

[Francis Foster]

What are they doing here?

[Joe Rogan]

Right?

[Francis Foster]

He goes, look, fair enough. If you want to protest and you go to ucla, that's all cool, whatever. Number one, don't stop me from getting an education when my parents have paid X amount for it. But number two, like, he pointed at one of the dudes. He was like, that guy's about 42. I know he doesn't go to my college. Why is he here protesting?

[Joe Rogan]

He's being paid.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, and you're right. And there are a lot of foreign governments that want this shit to be going on 100%.

[Joe Rogan]

And there's a lot of bots online that want this to be. There's a lot of. There's a lot of, like, momentum that pushes things into these directions. These are not organic. Just like Bernie Sanders rally numbers aren't organic. Like, these are not organic. There's a narrative. I mean, that was during the Kamala Harris administration or during the campaign, rather. You saw these inorganic moments where they filled These arenas with people that were paid and they spent how many billion, $2 billion over the course of three months to do this. And it failed. But it's like, you're manufacturing this, this passion, manufacturing this movement, and a lot of people are dumb and it works on them. And they're like, you know, I'm sure you saw that lady who was like, bragging about buying champagne and making fun of the guy selling her the champagne because he wasted his vote on Trump. And I'm buying champagne to toast Madam President. She's gonna win. Women have come to the. Like, she really believed it. Cause they gaslit people so hard with their filled arenas and all the news coverage on CNN and msnbc. And the polls are showing. The polls are showing. And it's going to be. Kamala Harris is going to be. And they just gaslit the whole country.

[Constantine Kissin]

And this is what happened with all that woke cancellation stuff as well, where it was a very small number of people who made themselves look a lot bigger online, right. In order to then get companies to back down, to get universities to back down, in order to get other organizations who were just scared of the bad attention to back down. I look at a lot of stuff that happens on social media. I'm going, there's no fucking way. That has got 80,000 likes organically. That's not real.

[Joe Rogan]

It's hard to say what's real and what's not real. And until you take that chip in your head, you're not going to know. That's why you need to sign up for the Neuralink program.

[Constantine Kissin]

It's one of the things that I'm really. Hopefully Elon can solve with X. That was one of the things he said when he took over to deal with the bot problem. I think there's more to do on that front. For sure.

[Joe Rogan]

There's a lot more to do. And I don't know what they can actually do, because with AI, I mean, you can have like really sophisticated programs that tweet as if they are from Afghanistan, tweet as if they're from wherever they are in the world. They do it in different languages. It's all. It can all be done with AI now. And they can argue specific points like, you know, this guy is a note. Nazis go out there and say it and prompt it. And then all of a sudden you've got looks like groundswell of support calling Elon Musk a Nazi. And then a bunch of people hop onto that and they think it's organic. And they think that, like these Tesla These people are fed up. That's why they're going to the Tesla dealerships. No, they're giving. They're being paid. And they're trying to crash the stock of Tesla. They're trying to put people into panic mode so that it puts pressure on Elon to drop Doge. Like, this is what's going on. Like, and you're watching it as if it's this organic moment. Moment. It's a puppet show. You're watching a puppet show.

[Francis Foster]

And that's the thing that, you know, that really worries. I think everybody at the moment is. Is at a very basic, fundamental level. I don't know what's real and what's not.

[Joe Rogan]

No, I don't either. I wish I did, because people think. I do. Like, oh, you have inside information. I don't have any. I have zero. I don't know what's going on.

[Francis Foster]

But people. But I think we all need to understand you to a greater extent, us, to a lesser extent, we're not real people. To people online, we're just avatars. And then they imbue us with this knowledge that we've got, this knowledge that we can see things.

[Joe Rogan]

Controlled opposition.

[Constantine Kissin]

We are so that we get that so much.

[Joe Rogan]

It's hilarious. That is the. That's for people that are just a little too smart to believe the earth is flat. They'll go with controlled opposition, but it's just. They just don't know. Like, if you're on the outside looking in, like, if you're looking at Tom Hanks in his house, I must be a pedophile to get that house. You know what I mean? Like, everybody on the outside of, like, people that are. Which, you know, with a guy like Tom Hanks is essentially like a kind of royalty, like a movie star royalty. Like, that class of celebrity is like, almost. Almost beyond. And so they don't seem like normal people to you. They go to that Eyes Wide Shut party and drink baby blood. And, like, there's all these bizarre things attributed to those people, and they're in control of the narrative, and they're. But there's some people that really are in control of the narrative. There's some people that really are like, CIA age that are on TV shows, you know, that's real. There's, like, people that have worked for the CIA that are now on television telling you what the narrative news is. If that doesn't seem crazy, you know, it's just we're going through a bizarre period of being bombarded with constant information, having unprecedented access to each other and, and information and also watching all the powers that be try to snatch up more and more control over society. And we're watching it play out in real time and we're concentrating on girls and sports and whether or not this is real. Should gay people still be able to get married? It's all bullshit. Like you're just watching more and more power be acquired by the people with the most amount of money.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah. And that's why people like Jeff Bezos buy with the Washington Post.

[Joe Rogan]

Well at least he turned it around and said lately that the are going to have to stop with all these left wing opinion pieces and just post about the news.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, which everybody's freaking out because they really think they have like a mandate to be like the moral voice of the world. Which is so hilarious.

[Francis Foster]

I agree with you. That is good. But do you think any journalist is going to be allowed to write a piece about Amazon criticizing them?

[Joe Rogan]

I doubt it. I wouldn't do it if I worked there. I'd shut my fucking mouth. I want to buy a house. Trying to buy a house.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I can't lose. I get it. Yeah. They should get more money. What? Whatever.

[Constantine Kissin]

And that, that comes back to our Lord of the Rings conversation because even well intentioned people who are doing things that we might like.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Constantine Kissin]

Everyone's got an agenda.

[Joe Rogan]

Well. And especially billionaires comes along and equally distributes all the money.

[Francis Foster]

So once again.

[Joe Rogan]

Boys, let's wrap this up. I appreciate you both very much. It's always cool to talk to you. I'm happy you visit often and I'm glad you're having a good time over here and I hope you get your together with your country because. Come on now.

[Francis Foster]

Can I just say one thing?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Francis Foster]

I've got a book out in August. It's called Classroom Confidential.

[Joe Rogan]

It's in August. It's coming out.

[Francis Foster]

It's. Yeah, August 18th.

[Joe Rogan]

You finished it?

[Francis Foster]

I finished it.

[Joe Rogan]

Takes that long to release a book?

[Francis Foster]

Yeah, it does. It does, it does. Particularly the print. Printing. Printing industry in the uk. Yeah. So. But yeah, so it's coming out. It's all about being a teacher and why you should never be one.

[Constantine Kissin]

And it's very funny.

[Joe Rogan]

Beautiful.

[Constantine Kissin]

Very beautiful.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

We'll come back when. So when it comes out.

[Francis Foster]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Back. We'll talk again.

[Francis Foster]

I'd love to.

[Joe Rogan]

Your show, trigonometry. It's available everywhere. Anything else?

[Francis Foster]

We both got sub stacks.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yep. I've got a substack. He's got a substack.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at you guys fucking writing and shit. And your show is. How many times a week do you guys do it?

[Constantine Kissin]

We put two episodes out every week, so Wednesdays and Sundays is interviews.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you do like, substacks episodes? Like different ones or Patreon.

[Constantine Kissin]

So, yeah, on subs, on our substack, on the trigonometry substack, you get to hear the guest answer your questions. So people sending questions ahead of time.

[Joe Rogan]

That's cool. Oh, that's nice.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, people love that.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a great idea. That's a good way to add extra value.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah, that's what we're always thinking about is how do we offer people who support us extra value? Because unlike the people on the Internet who say we're controlled opposition, paid by blah, blah, blah, we're actually just paid by our fans.

[Joe Rogan]

That's actually a very good idea, though, to let the fans actually have questions too, and take those off. Find the good ones.

[Constantine Kissin]

And a lot of them are good ones. And what we often do as well is we look through them before the interview you. And if we can't get them in at the end, we'll actually try and incorporate them into the discussion itself.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, beautiful.

[Constantine Kissin]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. Appreciate you both very much, always.

[Constantine Kissin]

Thanks, brother.

[Francis Foster]

Thanks.

[Joe Rogan]

Bye, everybody.