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- [00:02]
Joe Rogan
Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.
- [00:04]
Cameron Haynes
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- [00:06]
Joe Rogan
Train my day.
- [00:07]
Cameron Haynes
Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
- [00:13]
Joe Rogan
What's going on?
- [00:14]
Cameron Haynes
Not much. Hello, Joe Rogan.
- [00:16]
Joe Rogan
Hello, Cameron.
- [00:17]
Cameron Haynes
Welcome to the podcast.
- [00:18]
Joe Rogan
Thank you. This is my first time trying. One of these new energy drinks at Black Rifle came out. Have you tried them? They're good. They're legit.
- [00:25]
Cameron Haynes
Really good.
- [00:26]
Joe Rogan
Everything they do is legit.
- [00:27]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, really good.
- [00:30]
Joe Rogan
Mango, what do you think? So this is the part of the podcast where I try to talk you out of running a 250mile race with a broken foot. You maniac.
- [00:38]
Cameron Haynes
We're talking about my book. This is. The whole point of. This was undeniable.
- [00:46]
Joe Rogan
Well, you'll definitely be undeniable. You're on 250 miles with a broken foot.
- [00:50]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, it's.
- [00:52]
Joe Rogan
Why are you doing that? That seems like not a good idea. But what am I, a doctor?
- [00:57]
Cameron Haynes
Okay, so. So real talk. Let's just. We'll break it down. So if I was a professional athlete in my prime.
- [01:05]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [01:05]
Cameron Haynes
Right. It would obviously make sense to say, and I need to get surgery. My foot's broke. I can't perform. Whatever. But since I'm. We know how old I am, almost 60. It's just like, there's no guarantees. I'm like, if I can fight this off and. And still whatever. Still perform, then I'm gonna do that.
- [01:25]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [01:27]
Cameron Haynes
I can't afford to play the long game. Can I fix your foot?
- [01:32]
Joe Rogan
It's like, I don't understand. Like, this is what I've always said with people with jiu jitsu injuries, because I've had a bunch of surgeries. Yeah, just fix it. Just do it. Because a day will be a week will be a month. That'll happen so quick. Before you know, it'll be six months, you're back in the gym. Just do it. That's what I always tell everybody. Just fix it. Yeah, I just bite the bullet. Get the cert. Like, there's certain things. Like, certain things I don't think you should get surgery for, because there's things that you could rehabilitate. There's. And there's sort of an. There's some doctors. Do I want to be real careful about this? Because a lot of doctors are very cautious about whether or not to do surgery. But there's some doctors that are just a little too excited to cut people open and stitch them back together again.
- [02:13]
Cameron Haynes
Well, it's how they make their money.
- [02:14]
Joe Rogan
It's how they make their money. And, you know, famously, I've talked about it too many times. But for people who haven't heard the story, my doctor told me for sure you're going to need shoulder surgery. You're going to have to get shoulder surgery. It's just a matter of when and if you put it off, it'll probably get worse. I have zero problem with that shoulder now. I got stem cells in it from Roddy McGee in Vegas. You went with me to that place, Went back in six months. He's like, the tear is completely gone. So I could have gone under the knife and maybe he would have done a great job and fix it. Apparently he did the Lakers and a bunch of pro athletes and everything like that. But they don't entertain the possibility that there's other ways to fix things. But when it comes to broken bones and torn ligaments, like if your ligaments. Like I have a bunch of friends who have ACL tears. Complete ACL tears, no acl. And they still do Jiu Jitsu. I'm like, dude, you're just grinding up your meniscus, the shit that you're gonna need for the rest of your life. And take it from me, a 57 year old man who loves Jiu Jitsu, you can't do that. You need that stuff. Like that stuff's gonna go away and then it'll be bone on bone and then you're gonna be in agony all the time.
- [03:19]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. Yeah, theoretically.
- [03:21]
Joe Rogan
Theoretically. Just get it fixed. I always say just get it fixed. Get it fixed before you know it would be fixed.
- [03:27]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. But I keep thinking about, so if I would have done it. So I, I broke it last June. But all the things I did from last June to now, I've got accomplished. Still. Still got it done. Made it happen. Yeah. Has a.
- [03:39]
Joe Rogan
Okay, don't fix it. Ever. Just live with a broken foot forever. That's retarded.
- [03:43]
Cameron Haynes
It doesn't make any sense.
- [03:44]
Joe Rogan
It makes zero sense.
- [03:45]
Cameron Haynes
This is reverse psychology. Isn't it good. Yeah. No, don't do it.
- [03:49]
Joe Rogan
Good job. Break the other so it balances out. That's the problem, is that you only have one broken foot. If you just take a hammer to your, to your right foot or your left foot, then you'll have no problems.
- [03:59]
Cameron Haynes
Well, we'll, we'll know.
- [04:01]
Joe Rogan
Well, you're, I'm sure you're going to get through it. I'm positive you're going to get through it. But it's just like, why are you doing that to yourself?
- [04:06]
Cameron Haynes
Next Monday at 5am 250 miles.
- [04:10]
Joe Rogan
Which one is that? What's the Race called.
- [04:11]
Cameron Haynes
When your mark is set, go Cocodona 250.
- [04:15]
Joe Rogan
Where is it? Is it elevation?
- [04:17]
Cameron Haynes
It's Arizona. So it goes from, I think Black Canyon City to Flagstaff.
- [04:22]
Joe Rogan
Is it flat the whole way or is it 40,000? Oh, 40,000 nothing.
- [04:27]
Cameron Haynes
Or maybe 30,000. I don't know. A lot. A lot of climbing.
- [04:30]
Joe Rogan
Just a tiny amount. Oh, look, mountains.
- [04:34]
Cameron Haynes
No, there's lots of mountains. Is that the. Yeah, it's right there. Coco donut, bro.
- [04:38]
Joe Rogan
That's so ridiculous.
- [04:39]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, it looks beautiful though.
- [04:41]
Joe Rogan
That's so ridiculous. You're gonna do that with a broken foot.
- [04:43]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [04:44]
Joe Rogan
So after you do that, here's the next logic. Well, if I could do 250 miles, I can make it through elk season and then. Yeah, you're not gonna get it fixed.
- [04:51]
Cameron Haynes
I just did it with a broken foot in elk season.
- [04:54]
Joe Rogan
I know, that's what I'm saying. You're not gonna fix it. You're not gonna fix it.
- [04:58]
Cameron Haynes
Well, if I get backed into corner and I can't walk, oh boy.
- [05:03]
Joe Rogan
But then the problem is, what if you've done permanent damage? Like, didn't you say your hamstrings bother you now because you comp. Yeah, yeah.
- [05:08]
Cameron Haynes
This whole leg. But yeah.
- [05:10]
Joe Rogan
And you're gonna run 250 miles with a up hamstring. Great idea. That's not gonna fuck it up worse.
- [05:18]
Cameron Haynes
This is supposed to be a feel good discussion. I thought, friends, BSing, right? Everybody has a good time here. The most influential man in the world. Time magazine should have been.
- [05:30]
Joe Rogan
No, Meghan Markle beat me.
- [05:34]
Cameron Haynes
If it's most influential, there's no debate. Nobody's even in the same category as you.
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Joe Rogan
I don't know. I don't think about it. I try not to. It's a little complicated.
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Cameron Haynes
I'm thinking about it.
- [05:46]
Joe Rogan
I really shouldn't be influential. I don't think hard enough about the consequences.
- [05:51]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, you say that all the time. But man, you. You have so many good conversations and it's like it's definitely changed. Here's what's crazy is, you know, mainstream media, with all the money that the advertisers had to pay or whatever, it's like that was. That was their thing. Now that feels like that money is coming to the podcast realm because of you. I mean, you've shown the power of podcast and I think all the podcast hosts are benefiting from that. What do you.
- [06:17]
Joe Rogan
Well, I think we are all benefiting from all of our work. I mean, I don't think it's me. I'm. You Know, I just have been doing it longer than most, you know, but there's guys like Corolla and a few other guys that have been doing it longer than me. You know, it's just. Podcasting is just better because there's less people involved. It's really that simple. The problem with stuff like Fox News and CNN is there's too many people involved and too many interests. Right? You have the interests of the network, you have the interests of the censors. You have a bunch of people that, you know, don't want you talking about certain things or want you talking about certain other things. Like, they want you to push certain narratives. There's too many people. And so it feels curated. And so when you're listening, it doesn't resonate. But when you listen to two people just shoot the shit, you're like, oh, I know what that's like. Like, that make. That's like. If someone came over your house and started talking like a CNN anchor, you'd be like, what the is this guy doing in my house? Get him out of here. I can't relax. Trying to want.
- [07:13]
Cameron Haynes
How would he talk?
- [07:14]
Joe Rogan
1 we. What we've learned today is that climate change is the most important. You're like, oh, God, get this guy out of the house. Like, what are you saying?
- [07:23]
Cameron Haynes
So Douglas Murray is going to come over to my house.
- [07:25]
Joe Rogan
It sounds. Have you ever been? Yeah, I mean, it's just there's people that are professional talking heads. Do you know, like, there's. There's people that are professional sportscasters. You know, they talk like a sportscaster voice, like, Howard Cosell, radio DJ voice. Radio DJ voice. Yeah, exactly. Top 40 DJ voice is like, they're all the same. Coming up next. All right. You know, like that kind of weird thing that they do, where you're used to it, it sounds professional, but it doesn't resonate with you. So it doesn't seem normal. When you hear people, whether it's you or me or Theo Vaughn or Andrew Schultz or whoever it is that's doing a podcast, they're just people talking, normal people talking to people, and that's what people want. And if a normal person can talk to scientists and you know, and say, what, What. How does that work? Why is it. What causes this? Like, what can I do to make this happen? What's. What's the best way to start your day? That kind of shit. Like, then it makes sense to the people. If you're. If you hear some weirdo that's talking in a way that doesn't make any sense. And you know, won't bring up certain subjects and has guardrails and won't use certain language. It doesn't make sense to you. So you're not. It doesn't work as well. And also like, they don't trust those people. Like, if I tell you, oh, this black rifle coffee drink is good, I'm not lying. I wouldn't lie. If I was like, Evan, what the fuck is this? If I drank it, I was like, bro, we would call Evan up right now. We'd call him up on speakerphone. Dude, this mango tastes like ass. Yeah, you know, probably not, but. But I tell them privately. But it's. But it wouldn't. You know what I'm saying? Like, I know all their is great, their coffee's great. Everything's great. It's like everything. All the ads we have. Like I had a call yesterday, one of these conference calls that I have where I gotta go. No, no, not that one. No, we can't do that. It was like different ads. Like, what is it? No, no, like I just something that sounds like wrong to me. I'm not getting interested. I'm not. That might be a scam. This might be horseshit. What's the studies on this? Is it real? Like what do we. No, no, no, no. Like oh. Or yes. Oh, yeah, I use that all the time. Let's do that. That's good. That's solid company. That's this. This is great. This episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog. We all want to do the best for our dogs, but there's a lot of mixed messaging out there, especially around dog food. Take kibble for example. You'd have to do a lot of digging to learn that Kibble is actually ultra processed. They put the words like premium on their bag next to pictures of real ingredients. But food doesn't end up as burnt down pellets without extreme processing. For decades it was the default dog food. But not anymore. The farmer's dog is healthy food made with real meat and vegetables by people who care about what goes into your dog's body. The recipes are developed by board certified nutritionists to be complete and balanced. And their food is made to the same safety standards as human food. It's lightly cooked to retain vital nutrients and then it's pre portioned to suit your dog's needs. So try the farmer's dog today and get 50% off your first box of healthy freshly made food plus free shipping. Just go to the farmersdog.com rogan. Tap the banner or visit this episode's page to learn more. The offer is for new customers only. This episode is brought to you by Visible. Now. You know, I tend to go down a lot of rabbit holes. I want to know everything about everything. And if you're like that, you need wireless that can keep up. Visible is wireless that lets you live in the know. It's the ultimate wireless hack. You get unlimited and hotspot so you're connected on the go. Plus, Visible is powered by Verizon's 5G network, meaning fast speeds and great coverage. And with the new Visible plus Pro plan, you get premium wireless without the premium cost. And the best part, it's all digital. No stores. You can switch to Visible right from your phone. It only takes about 15 minutes. And then you manage your plan in the app. Ready for wireless that lets you live in the knowledge. Make the switch@visible.com Rogan plans start at 25amonth. For the best features, get the new Visible Plus Pro plan for 45amonth. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details.
- [11:57]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, I wonder if I don't even know how to word it, but people are so used to, like, the fake stuff. Like, even. Even if somebody says, if you talk about being transgender and say, oh, well, you know, this boy felt like a girl, whatever. It's like you're almost programmed to be.
- [12:13]
Joe Rogan
Like, oh, okay, yeah, you're programmed to not have an opinion.
- [12:18]
Cameron Haynes
Right? And so in that. And because normally, as guys work, you talk. We talk about radio, DJ voice, or the fake or whatever. Like, that's not how people talk. But guys can be around a certain group of people, and there'll be, like, one guy. You'd be like, that guy seemed off.
- [12:35]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [12:36]
Cameron Haynes
What the fuck's wrong with that guy?
- [12:37]
Joe Rogan
Right?
- [12:38]
Cameron Haynes
And your group, that's like a subtle little thing. That's not like the things we're talking about, like, the big things.
- [12:44]
Joe Rogan
That's like, this.
- [12:45]
Cameron Haynes
Guys have these. This radar. And you're just like, who the fuck is this guy?
- [12:49]
Joe Rogan
Right, right, right.
- [12:51]
Cameron Haynes
And then you go to the complete other realm, where it's so preposterous, and we're supposed to be like, oh, okay, yeah, that makes sense.
- [13:00]
Joe Rogan
I actually heard a psychologist discussing this, and he said that there's an issue with talking about things publicly, especially with social media, because there's so much backlash on social media. Whenever you hit any hot button topic, immigration, politics, anything, that's like a real, highly hotly contended topic, people will say things just so they don't get attacked and they, they distort their opinions based on how much they think they're going to get attacked. So all that social media stuff is super effective. People attacking people is super effective for people to like. This is how transgender people in sports got through. The only way it got through is because people were calling people bigots.
- [13:47]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [13:48]
Joe Rogan
Every parent, every fucking parent who's not a complete psychopath doesn't want their daughter wrestling with some boy who thinks he's a girl. That's crazy. Playing rugby with some boy who thinks he's a girl. That's crazy. Have a 6 foot 650 year old man who identifies as being 17 year old girl. That's crazy. But you can't say that's crazy or your feed will be bombarded with a bunch of sociopaths attacking you for being transphobic, suppressed.
- [14:21]
Cameron Haynes
Or Instagram will be like, yes, okay, you guess what? We don't like that opinion. Nobody's going to see it.
- [14:26]
Joe Rogan
I think Instagram is doing less of that now. Allegedly. Supposedly. I know X is not interested in that at all. They're not suppressing that at all. You can talk all the you want about trans people in sports now, because the reality is the general population. Look, I don't care what you want to do. If you want to wear a dress, you want to be called Rhonda, go for it. Have fun. I'm. I'm a freedom person, right? And I believe America is the land of the free. And that, that includes doing dumb. That includes things that I don't agree with. But don't hurt me or anybody else. Go have fun.
- [15:01]
Cameron Haynes
Right?
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Joe Rogan
But as soon as you start doing things like entering into women's bathrooms, entering into women's locker rooms, and all you have to do is just say you're a guy now we're in crazy town. And if I can't say we're in crazy town, that's how all that stuff got through is because Twitter was complete nonsense. It was just a psyop. The whole thing was just a psyop. We all owe Elon Musk a huge debt. When he bought Twitter, he changed the conversations in the country because all of a sudden people were free.
- [15:38]
Cameron Haynes
They were what you want.
- [15:39]
Joe Rogan
You were free to say whatever you wanted.
- [15:40]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [15:41]
Joe Rogan
Before you couldn't say anything bad about Biden or the liberals or Covid vaccines or anything, you would be banned. You'd be banned.
- [15:52]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, that's, you know, that Elon coming, doing what he's done has definitely changed the world. Right?
- [15:59]
Joe Rogan
Without a doubt.
- [16:00]
Cameron Haynes
I mean, has. And how much credit does he deserve? Because he did not have to do that. I mean, he had more money than anybody. Why would he do. Why would he put himself out there like that other than to make a positive change for humanity, essentially?
- [16:14]
Joe Rogan
Well, in talking with him, both publicly and privately, he was genuinely concerned that we were losing free speech. He was genuinely concerned that it was being hijacked. It was being hijacked under the guise of safety. Safety. Like we have to. We have to protect people. We have to protect marginalized people. Like marginalized male perverts who want to wear dresses and pretend they're a girl and go in the bath. Literally. Literally.
- [16:38]
Cameron Haynes
Right.
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Joe Rogan
You know, and that's. That's dangerous with that, but it's also dangerous with everything else. It's also dangerous, like if you're a person who's a progressive person who believes in gay rights or, you know, any. Anything welfare, universal, basic, whatever it is. Imagine living in a world where there's no free speech, but the Republicans are in control, or like super religious, conservative people are in control, or Muslims are in control. Let's imagine like the, the Muslim population in this country is expanding all the time. There's got Muslim run cities now. They have call to prayer in certain cities in this country. Imagine that goes everywhere. They're in control of social media and they institute Sharia law on social media and they want to throw gay people off the roof.
- [17:29]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [17:30]
Joe Rogan
This is where it goes. Like, you got to leave people the fuck alone. You got to let them say whatever they want to say. And if you don't agree with them, don't follow them or make an argument against it.
- [17:39]
Cameron Haynes
Right. Really?
- [17:40]
Joe Rogan
That simple?
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Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
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Joe Rogan
That's what America is supposed to be. And it wasn't that way for four fucking years.
- [17:44]
Cameron Haynes
I know.
- [17:45]
Joe Rogan
During the Biden administration, the FBI was involved in Twitter, the government intelligence agencies were involved in Twitter. They were telling people to take down true information, and they were getting them to do it and they were doing it.
- [18:00]
Cameron Haynes
How crazy is that?
- [18:02]
Joe Rogan
Crazy. People should be up in arms that that took place. Like the Hunter Biden laptop thing. You should be. You should be freaking out. How'd they get 51 former intelligence agencies to sign agents to sign off on something they knew was a lie? That's crazy.
- [18:18]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [18:19]
Joe Rogan
They just did it right in front.
- [18:20]
Cameron Haynes
Of our face and no repercussions.
- [18:22]
Joe Rogan
Nothing. It's nothing.
- [18:24]
Cameron Haynes
How does that. How does it happen? But then also how is there no repercussions?
- [18:28]
Joe Rogan
Well, what's really hilarious now is now they're all getting grilled by even, like, liberal media is grilling these politicians. Like, did you know Biden was out of his mind?
- [18:38]
Cameron Haynes
Right?
- [18:38]
Joe Rogan
Like, how did you know? Yeah, Like, Elizabeth Warren was like, he was sharp as attack. He was getting up for meetings.
- [18:45]
Cameron Haynes
Never seen him better. I heard that, too. It's like, what, Ghost Scarborough? Yeah.
- [18:49]
Joe Rogan
He was like, this is the best version of Biden I've ever seen. Like, you should be literally in jail. God, such a liar. You almost, like, shifted the whole. Imagine if Biden stayed in. They lied about that, and he's literally like a zombie for four more years. And whoever the hell was running the country for the last four years just continues to run it, and then they just tighten up even further. Cut down on Marc Andreessen was telling me about debanking, which I didn't even know existed, where people that had certain political donations and political persuasions, they would take their banking away. They did no crime. They just say, you can't bank here anymore. You got to go find another bank. And there's only, like, a few banks. They're all owned by giant mega corporations. Like, what the fuck are you doing?
- [19:37]
Cameron Haynes
Well, it's. No, that kind of reminds me of what happened in Canada with the truckers.
- [19:42]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [19:43]
Cameron Haynes
I mean, they froze their. They froze their bank accounts. Yeah. Or people who donated to them.
- [19:48]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, people who donated to them got their bank accounts frozen.
- [19:51]
Cameron Haynes
How insane.
- [19:52]
Joe Rogan
Insane. Insane. And then that same party just won again. Good job, Canada.
- [19:58]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, my God. If they didn't have good bear hunting, I would never be.
- [20:03]
Joe Rogan
I do have to say I offered to have that Pierre guy come on. The podcast really didn't do it. Wouldn't do it. Thought it was too problematic or whatever. Jordan told me. I forget what he said. But they. They were telling him not to do it. Like, his advisors were telling him not to do it.
- [20:18]
Cameron Haynes
Hey.
- [20:19]
Joe Rogan
Hey, dumbass.
- [20:19]
Cameron Haynes
They can't talk to you and have a conversation. Hold up. It's not. You're not grilling? You're not attacking people?
- [20:24]
Joe Rogan
Of course not.
- [20:25]
Cameron Haynes
This is like a safe, you know, the friend zone type thing. It's like, no. And I heard you talk about Kamala saying, just want to get to know her.
- [20:33]
Joe Rogan
Just want to talk to her 100%. I said, if there's certain things they didn't want to talk about, I don't need to talk about them. I don't care. I'm like, I could talk to you about AI.
- [20:41]
Cameron Haynes
You've never been the gotcha guy.
- [20:43]
Joe Rogan
This episode is brought to you by Better help. It's important that you take care of yourself physically and mentally. Because if you refuse to get help, you're not just hurting yourself, you're hurting the people around you. It can impact your family, friends, even your colleagues. And you know, mental health has come a long way. Despite all our progress though, there's still a stigma. In a recent survey, 26% say they avoided seeking mental health support due to fear of judgment. This Mental Health Awareness month, let's change that. I'm encouraging everyone to take care of their well being and you should too. Therapy is an excellent tool that everyone can benefit from. It teaches valuable skills from how to be more self aware to healthier ways you can express emotions and more. If you want to be a better version of yourself, therapy is where it starts. And better help is a great way to get the therap that you need. They have over 10 years of experience matching people with the right therapists. Everything is also entirely online, so it's more affordable and convenient. And if that's still not enough to convince you, maybe this will. Over 5 million people worldwide use BetterHelp so you're not alone when it comes to seeking support. We're all better with help. Visit betterhelp.com jre to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H e l p.com/j r e I don't, I'm not interested in that. No, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. If, like, if someone, if I disagree with someone, I just say I disagree with them, not. I don't attack people. As I've gotten older and wiser in life, I want less conflict. I mean, sometimes you have to be able to disagree in a way that's forceful. But I don't want, I'm never insulting or attack people.
- [22:33]
Cameron Haynes
Right.
- [22:34]
Joe Rogan
And especially this Pierre Polec guy because I don't know how I say his name. How do you say it? It's a weird way of saying it. Pol. I would just ask him questions like, what's wrong? What's wrong with Canada? Like, how did this happen? Why did it go this way? What can be done to reverse some of these things that have been put into place? Like, how did you feel about this? What, what would you have done differently? Yeah, real simple stuff. Yeah, real simple. I don't know anything about Canada's politics.
- [23:00]
Cameron Haynes
Right. You know, it'd be interesting. Yeah, I'd love to hear it.
- [23:03]
Joe Rogan
It would have been fun.
- [23:04]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [23:04]
Joe Rogan
But what, you know, people are just. And this is also why the attacking of people on social media is effective. Like the same thing that keeps people from saying things because they're worried that they're going to be attacked. Also keeps people from talking to certain people because they're worried about they're being attacked. You know, they'll try to. Like, this is one of the things that I felt like Douglas Murray was doing when he was on the podcast was like trying to gatekeep who I have on. Like, why would you have this person on? Why would you? He never even listened to that guy Daryl Cooper's podcast. Like, I would tell everybody, forget about the politics stuff. Listen to his stuff on Guyana. Listen to his stuff on Jim Jones, the Jim Jones series.
- [23:47]
Cameron Haynes
And this is an hour.
- [23:48]
Joe Rogan
Incredible.
- [23:49]
Cameron Haynes
Doesn't he do like hours long discussions? Yeah.
- [23:52]
Joe Rogan
Fear and Loathing in New Jerusalem is something like 30 hours long. Insane stuff. But he's a really thoughtful person and he delves into all the areas. Let's, you know, look at this from the, the perspective of the people who were in the cult. Look at it from Jim Jones's perspective. Look at it from the nation of Guyana where he moves there with his cult and kills everybody with Kool Aid. I don't think it was Kool Aid. I think it was like a bargain name. It was like some fake Kool Aid.
- [24:21]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, we don't have Koolaid to sue us.
- [24:23]
Joe Rogan
People always say, drink the Kool Aid. But I do Google that because I'm pretty sure it wasn't really Kool Aid. It was something else. Too expensive to kill everybody with. Top shelf Kool Aid.
- [24:33]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, it's a lot of sugar. You got to put in Kool Aid. Remember when you used to make Kool Aid and it was like what was like a cup of sugar?
- [24:39]
Joe Rogan
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you throw the stuff in there. Bert Kreischer drinks that all day long. It was like a 64 ounce jug of Kool Aid.
- [24:47]
Cameron Haynes
He was shredded.
- [24:49]
Joe Rogan
Oh, he wasn't.
- [24:50]
Cameron Haynes
He was more shredded than he is now.
- [24:52]
Joe Rogan
Yes. Yeah, but he's real big right now. I was just talking to him the other day. I was like, dude, you got to do something. Maybe flavor a.
- [25:01]
Cameron Haynes
Flavor a similar, but might have been from cheaper. Yeah, so that was from Costco.
- [25:07]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, they got it in bulk. Flavor Aid. There it is.
- [25:10]
Cameron Haynes
Kirkland. Yeah.
- [25:12]
Joe Rogan
What does it say? H your aid. What does it say? What is it? Fl FA or aid? Flavor Aid. Oh, that's an F. Make it larger. Oh, it's blurry. Oh, there you go. Oh, there it Goes, yeah, Flavor Aid.
- [25:27]
Cameron Haynes
Okay, Flavor Aid.
- [25:29]
Joe Rogan
It killed everybody with Flavor Aid.
- [25:31]
Cameron Haynes
Mixing it up.
- [25:32]
Joe Rogan
Poison has got to be the worst way to go. Feeling your body, just getting destroyed from the inside out. Terrible for some jackass who's on meth. It's a crazy podcast. But this is my point. Like, what they're trying to do is keep people, Keep these heterodox opinions, keep people that are, like, outside of the circle of expertise from talking about things. Even if they've read, like, Darrell Cooper's read, like hundreds of books. The guy's like a consummate reader. And you might disagree with him about something. That's fine. That's. You should. That should be okay. Should be okay to disagree with people about stuff.
- [26:10]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. And also, what is learning? I mean, what is learning?
- [26:14]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [26:14]
Cameron Haynes
So you said he, he read, he did all this research. Douglas Murray has a problem with. I don't know who, but what is. How is that different than going to school, essentially?
- [26:23]
Joe Rogan
Right? I mean, it's no different. It's no different. I mean, there are experts that stop learning the moment they get their degree. And that's real. Yeah, and it's a real problem. It's a real problem in medicine. You know, I had an argument with Brian Callan years ago because his doctor was telling him, you don't need supplements, you just. You just need a balanced diet. That's what his doctor was saying. I go, your doctor looks like shit. Like, what are you talking, Your doctor's fat. He's got a big pot belly. He's got a big doughy face. He probably can't run around the block. Shut the fuck up. Don't listen to that guy. There's plenty of peer reviewed papers that talk about the efficacy of vitamins. They're super beneficial for you. This is crazy talk, this appeal to experts. Just because you have a degree. You're not always right. You're wrong all the time.
- [27:06]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, that was pretty disappointing because I thought Douglas Murray, I liked listening to him. I thought he was super smart, obviously. So good and that. But then on that one, I think I told you, it's like. Or I text you something about. Man, he seemed pompous. It's like, that seemed like that took a big. For me. It was a loss for him big time.
- [27:26]
Joe Rogan
Well, he used tactics rather than facts. So the tactic was an appeal to experts like that. And there was also saying that the coverage was imbalanced because I didn't have enough people that were pro Israel. But then I thought about it afterwards. I'm Like, I have quite a few. There was Jordan Ben Shapiro. There was Coleman Hughes. There's. There's been quite a few people that are pro Israel and not even that people are anti Israel. They just don't want to watch people get blown apart all the time.
- [27:58]
Cameron Haynes
Right.
- [27:58]
Joe Rogan
That seems pretty reasonable. But instead of debating how this is done and what is being done militarily, it all became about, like, who are the experts and what are the. What are the things that should be discussed and should it be balanced? And do you have an obligation? Like, that's not what we're here for. What we're here for is to get down to business. So what he's doing is like, putting you on the defensive right away.
- [28:20]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [28:20]
Joe Rogan
Which is like, I recognized it.
- [28:21]
Cameron Haynes
I'm like, okay, now you were perfect. You're perfect. The perfect person to handle that. Because most people, when they start getting attacked, you get defensive, you attack back.
- [28:31]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [28:32]
Cameron Haynes
It just. It just changes the whole dynamic of the conversation. But you stayed pretty neutral on that. And it's a trap.
- [28:38]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's a trap. It's like, you know when someone gets in your face and you start yelling in your face, like, what? Okay, what are we doing? We fighting? Or, you know, I could, like, you start yelling, too.
- [28:48]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [28:48]
Joe Rogan
And then maybe I'll see what happens. Yeah. And then maybe I won't be paying attention. Your hands, you know, or your shoulder moves, whether or not you're gonna hit me.
- [28:55]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, it's. See, that's a tactic. That's a fighting tactic.
- [28:58]
Joe Rogan
100.
- [28:58]
Cameron Haynes
He had the same tactic, but not for fighting, but for conversation.
- [29:01]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's. It's a tactic, you know, and then the thing of asking Dave, you've never been, like, to dismiss, instead of having a debate on the issues, like, and this idea. That expert, like, Douglas Murray, I love him dearly. I think he's a brilliant man. He's got a degree in history or. Excuse me, he's got a degree in English. Bachelor's degree. He's not an expert either. Unless we're talking about Shakespeare. Shut the fuck up. Because you're not an expert either. You know what I mean? I don't have a degree in anything. I don't have. I have zero degrees in anything. But there's certain things that I'm an expert in. You want to talk about martial arts? I'm a martial arts expert. Like, if you disagree with. You have to be. Like, in order for me to have a conversation with someone where they disagree with me about Mars, they have to be so Much better. It has to be like, Gordon Ryan.
- [29:47]
Cameron Haynes
Right.
- [29:47]
Joe Rogan
You know, like. But I don't disagree with Gordon on anything for him. Like, that's a real expert. Again, no degrees. That's a real expert. I would just ask questions like, what do you do in this situation? What's. What's the benefit of this versus that? And so you talk about it, like, with these political issues, they're so such a third rail. It's such a dangerous subject that people have, like, a group that they belong with, and then that group will support them if they go out and say these ideas, and then the other people have another group, and then this person's a representative of one group and they want to duke it out with the rep. Any reasonable person would look at Gaza and go, this seems kind of excessive. This seems kind of crazy, right? Seems kind of crazy that 70,000 people or whatever it is are dead, including women and children. This is the only way to do it. Really. Any reasonable person. That doesn't make you anti Semitic. It doesn't make you anti Zionist. Doesn't make you anything. It just doesn't make you pro Hamas.
- [30:45]
Cameron Haynes
Like, no, it's pro human.
- [30:47]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Human beings.
- [30:49]
Cameron Haynes
I don't think humans should be murdered.
- [30:51]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, just like, that sounds so reasonable. But the thing is, like, we never got into that because the conversation, tactically, he entered into the conversation as, you know, because he doesn't have really, a defensible position. It's very hard to say. This is the only way to do it.
- [31:08]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [31:08]
Joe Rogan
So what do you say? You say you need better experts. You shouldn't be talking to this person. You should be doing this, you should be doing that. Like, why don't you have this? You've never been there. You should go there. Like, I am not going there. What the are you talking about?
- [31:21]
Cameron Haynes
You're not even going to Brazil for another UFC fight.
- [31:24]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, exactly. I don't go to Canada.
- [31:28]
Cameron Haynes
Not traveling out of the country.
- [31:30]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's like, you know, it's not. Not what I'm interested in doing. I don't have to.
- [31:35]
Cameron Haynes
Well, what's crazy is, so he had that take. But unless you're an expert or educated, you shouldn't have be able to share this opinion. Yeah, but he'd had the opposite take before.
- [31:46]
Joe Rogan
Oh, yeah. Which is hilarious because somebody put a video up of him arguing with him.
- [31:50]
Cameron Haynes
Completely opposite. So that. And I must. I don't. I asked you about this. Not with him, but I asked you. Do you think there's, like, government plants? Because it's like if somebody, I'm not saying him, I'm just saying just in general, if somebody changes their position. So I don't know, it's hard to know what it, how, who got to him and why did this happen? Because then I look around, we talk about the power podcasts, and I see these podcasts and it's like, how did this podcast get every guest you could ever want and rise to the top in a heartbeat? When we know how it normally works? It works like you decades, right, to get to the top. Then some people. So I'm thinking like, how did this happen?
- [32:37]
Joe Rogan
Well, some people are really good, you know, and they could be really good right out of the bat, right off the bat, they could be, you know, better at it. And then they get a good following and then once it gets into the top 20 or whatever, then they can get good guests, you know, because when it comes to that usually takes time sometimes. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I wonder what would happen if I started the podcast today, if there was all the podcasts that were out right now and I had never done a podcast, and I started today and I did it exactly how I'm doing it. How long would take for it catches on? I don't know.
- [33:10]
Cameron Haynes
I don't either.
- [33:10]
Joe Rogan
I would suck though. That would be a problem. I was sucking everybody be watching because I sucked when nobody was watching and I got better at it. I figured out how to do it. But as far as like Douglas, I don't know if anybody got to him or whether or not the group that he associates with thinks this way. I don't necessarily put everything inside of a grand conspiracy. It might be that he has financial ties towards certain things, you know, like he, you know, he speaks at certain places, he sells certain books. He knows how he's selling them. I mean, or it might be just that's how he thinks about things too. There's some. Sometimes people always think like, oh, somebody got to him. Like maybe that's just how he thinks. Yeah, somebody has to think that way. Otherwise that wouldn't be an opinion that's out there in the zeitgeist.
- [33:57]
Cameron Haynes
Normally people don't switch 180 degrees on.
- [34:00]
Joe Rogan
Things though, especially like that.
- [34:02]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, I mean, that's true.
- [34:03]
Joe Rogan
That's true because.
- [34:05]
Cameron Haynes
Because if he's educated on things, if he's been around, if he's, you know, the smart, wise person, you, you form this opinion based on that, you don't go 180 degrees the other way and change complete the complete Opposite take.
- [34:22]
Joe Rogan
Right. Unless you've been influenced.
- [34:24]
Cameron Haynes
It wasn't like you were just a kid and you didn't know, and now all of a sudden, you're an adult. It's like, I can't believe I used to say that he was an adult the whole time.
- [34:30]
Joe Rogan
Right, right, right, right.
- [34:31]
Cameron Haynes
So how.
- [34:32]
Joe Rogan
I don't know. You know, it's. You definitely could get suspicious, for sure. But, you know, I hear suspicious, but I hear people say that about me, too, which is hilarious.
- [34:42]
Cameron Haynes
But I said that.
- [34:43]
Joe Rogan
I have, like, CIA handlers. I've heard all that.
- [34:46]
Cameron Haynes
Dude, you've been doing this.
- [34:48]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [34:48]
Cameron Haynes
You're the og.
- [34:50]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, I think for sure, people do get influence, but I think people also allow themselves to get influenced because they have a financial interest in keeping a certain opinion, because they know that the group that they belong to has that certain opinion. There's that. But the real problem with doing what he did was that it diminishes you publicly. Like, if you really want to do that kind of a debate, if you really want to use those kind of tactics rather than a discussion of the issue, like, you've never been. Like that kind of stuff diminishes you publicly because everybody knows what you're doing.
- [35:26]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [35:27]
Joe Rogan
Instead of just having a conversation. Yeah.
- [35:30]
Cameron Haynes
Okay.
- [35:30]
Joe Rogan
Anybody with a. Anybody with an opinion I value knows what you're doing.
- [35:36]
Cameron Haynes
Right.
- [35:36]
Joe Rogan
Because if you understand conversations, you understand that's. This is not. You're not really engaging with the ideas. You're deciding whether or not a person should have these ideas or be able to. You've never been there. Like, you can't. How can you have an opinion? You know, at least you should do the courtesy, like, now. Now I'm virtuous. I have been. I put. I'm elevated. I'm better than you. You are diminished. You haven't even been there.
- [35:58]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [35:58]
Joe Rogan
Your opinion is basically meaningless.
- [36:00]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [36:00]
Joe Rogan
You know, and then it gets to this weird place where it's like, who's allowed to talk about what? You know, that's.
- [36:05]
Cameron Haynes
That's what. It just. The change was so abrupt and so opposite. I was just like. Because you could think if somebody was. I don't know. Okay, here's an example. I had somebody offer me today. Not today, yesterday. If I would wear their hat. $5,000.
- [36:25]
Joe Rogan
So with the hat and a bunch of dicks on it.
- [36:27]
Cameron Haynes
No, it's just a brand. But. So point is, there's value into doing this. So if somebody says, well, your. Your voice is this powerful, or you can reach as many people, or this Many people listen to you. So if it's a political party or a movement and they have this guy, we'll pay you this much to push this point.
- [36:52]
Joe Rogan
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- [37:54]
Cameron Haynes
Void.
- [37:55]
Joe Rogan
In Ontario, new customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see, it's possible. It's also possible that he views a guy like Dave Smith as sort of a dangerous upstart. Dave Smith has incredible recall, and he's very well read. I mean, he's a consummate consumer of information, and he's always reading books on different wars and foreign policy. Like, he's really into it. The way he explains it to me is like, someone's like, your recall's insane. He's like, yeah, but I could talk to you about a fight that happened 10 years ago and you'll tell me exactly how it went down. Like, that's all it is. Just, this is what I'm into, right? Just like I'm not not studying it for any other reason other than I'm fascinated by human conflicts, like global conflicts. And so when, when a guy like that is rising, you want to try to diminish his impact if he disagrees with your perspective. Like if you see someone.
- [39:04]
Cameron Haynes
But not everybody would want to diminish that impact. Not everybody. That's a certain type of person, but.
- [39:10]
Joe Rogan
He'S also a certain type of person that kind of existed in both traditional media and alternative media. I mean, he always did my podcast and, you know, he's written some great books. Like, the Strange Death of Europe is very good and proving to be very accurate. You know, if you look at like, what's happening with mass migration into Europe, like he was calling this a long time ago, he's saying this is. And he was being called terrible names, racist, Islamophobic, all these different things. And it turns out he was right. I mean, what, they're, what Conor McGregor is talking about in Ireland now and a lot of other Irish people are talking about what people are talking about in the uk. He was right. Like, you're, you're changing your culture and you're doing it. You're not get, you're, you're not having people move there that are assimilating and becoming British. You're having people that are coming there and trying to change what being British means.
- [40:02]
Cameron Haynes
Right.
- [40:02]
Joe Rogan
This is all he was saying. And so I agree with him on a lot of things, but I think that's how life is. You agree with people on some things, you disagree with them on other things. And this is supposed to be how most people view basically everything in life. There's going to be things that you agree with, that there's a lot, I have a lot of friends that disagree with me on certain things, but that should be fine. Yeah, that should be normal. But for some people it's not. For some people, it's not allowed because they, they live in this sort of debate culture. And you know, and some people, they do debates. One of the first things they do is they insult the people they're debating with. Just like, yeah, ad hominem attacks and again, trying to get you on the defensive.
- [40:45]
Cameron Haynes
That's, it's like a tactic of when we talk about mainstream media, like those interview type shows where you only have a certain amount of time.
- [40:52]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [40:53]
Cameron Haynes
So they have to get right to it.
- [40:54]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [40:55]
Cameron Haynes
Whereas that's not the case with the podcast.
- [40:59]
Joe Rogan
Also, I value perspective. I value someone who could look at things and go, yeah, like, clearly the devastation is horrible. Clearly, clearly it's horrible. Clearly there's innocent people. I've seen people say, I don't want to say who. I've seen people say, there are no innocent Palestinians in Gaza. I've seen people say that. Like, that's a crazy thing to say. That's a crazy thing to say. Especially in a place that's controlled by essentially a terrorist group. Like, like, that's a crazy thing to say. Like, do you, what do you think Chicago would look like, how do you think people would behave if they were. Chicago was controlled by a terrorist group. Do you think people would be free to speak out against them? That's. Is that the problem? They're not speaking out against them, so they should get bombed. That's crazy. If you have a wife and a child and you barely getting by, you barely have enough money for food, are you really going to be out in the streets protesting against this terrorist group with machine guns and billions of dollars they've gotten from U.S. aid?
- [41:58]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, no, you wouldn't.
- [42:00]
Joe Rogan
You wouldn't. You wouldn't be. You're not expressing yourself freely. So how do we even know what their opinions are?
- [42:05]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, it's true. Yeah. It's just. I mean, all of it just the changing landscape of media has just, you know, it just gets you thinking about, like, these voices and, you know, and Douglas brought it up with. In that discussion was. Was interesting. But all that I remember from it is, like, how. How much he changed his perspective.
- [42:26]
Joe Rogan
But, well, so anyway, I think he's still a brilliant guy, and I would still talk to him and listen to him about a lot of things, but I think having conversations like that, communicating with people like that, diminishes your appeal or diminishes whether or not it diminishes the overall impact of your mind on other people. Because I know you think goofy this way. I know you. You communicate goofy this way. And as soon as I know that, I'm like, yeah, now I have to put this through this filter. Now when you say things, I have to go, yeah, but he believes a bunch of goofy shit about that. Which is fine. Which is fine. I'm sure people do that with me, too. It's normal. But I think for someone who is a public intellectual, that becomes a problem when everyone who's really paying attention knows you're using tactics rather than actually just debating the issues at hand.
- [43:23]
Cameron Haynes
Just talking it through.
- [43:24]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, yeah, but it's like, the thing is, like, who's talking? Like, come on, everybody's talking. The whole world's talking. Like, let people talk.
- [43:32]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, it's crazy time for sure. But yeah, you know what? You know what I was thinking also, I don't have. Did you know I don't have a bow hunting degree?
- [43:42]
Joe Rogan
Oh, that's crazy. You should get a degree. So it was giving out degrees.
- [43:45]
Cameron Haynes
I shouldn't be able to bow hunt, really, should I?
- [43:47]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. You're allowed to bow without a degree. Yeah. Because it's a caveman fucking practice.
- [43:54]
Cameron Haynes
How awesome is bow hunting, though?
- [43:56]
Joe Rogan
It's the best.
- [43:57]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [43:57]
Joe Rogan
Best way to get food.
- [43:58]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [43:59]
Joe Rogan
There's no better way to get food.
- [44:01]
Cameron Haynes
Have you been shooting?
- [44:01]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Shot this morning. Did you want to waste. Well, yeah.
- [44:04]
Cameron Haynes
Are we gonna shoot?
- [44:06]
Joe Rogan
I don't know if I have time today, unfortunately, because we spent so much time at ways to. Well, and I gotta. I gotta head home after this.
- [44:11]
Cameron Haynes
Getting healthy.
- [44:12]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. We were getting stem cells today and the. What's the mask? The infusion, the lung stuff.
- [44:18]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, that was. Well, it's stem cell nebulizer, basically.
- [44:23]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. So you breathe it in. So you breathe it in like vape. You're vaping stem cells.
- [44:28]
Cameron Haynes
It's gotta be. Hey, all I know, and I said this when I was there, but I did that last time and then I ran a 5 mile race. It was 8k but my fastest 5 miles I've ever run.
- [44:39]
Joe Rogan
Really? With a broken foot?
- [44:40]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. At 57. So it's like, I don't know what it. If it didn't hurt.
- [44:46]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [44:46]
Cameron Haynes
Didn't hurt me, obviously.
- [44:47]
Joe Rogan
Well, they've done so many amazing things with me that I'm. You know when they say something is really great, you should try, I'm like, okay, so I put the mask on. I'm sitting there with you. We're talking about Rocky Marciano. I got into these old videos on YouTube of fighters training, and I got into this one video that I sent you about Rocky Marciano and how insane his training was. And it was seven days a week. He would spar sometimes 30, 40 rounds in a day. He would run 10 miles in the morning and then five more miles at night. And then he would swim two miles in the lake. He would swim across the lake and then back. And then he would get up in the morning and do it all over again. And he never took days off?
- [45:36]
Cameron Haynes
No. And another thing, he was, like, focused on recovery and sleep.
- [45:40]
Joe Rogan
Yep.
- [45:41]
Cameron Haynes
Like, he would be in bed, like at 9, I think I said every night, and get his sleep in, but work so hard. And why do we love stories like that?
- [45:50]
Joe Rogan
Because you know how hard it is to do.
- [45:52]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [45:52]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [45:53]
Cameron Haynes
But it's.
- [45:54]
Joe Rogan
It's impossible. I mean, it's possible, but it's impossible for most. It's like it requires a mind that is just fortified through will and discipline to this strange hardness that's just different than everybody else's.
- [46:11]
Cameron Haynes
Well, but. But why would. Okay, so he retired at 49. And now, yeah, heavyweight. Everybody knows him. And fighting. Maybe not everybody in the world. Obviously. He died a while ago.
- [46:22]
Joe Rogan
But by the way, small heavyweight, we're talking about that, too. I think in his prime, he was £190 or £189. Something like. Something crazy. Like what did Rocky Marciano way while he's fighting? I think he was 5 10, and he weighed like 189 pounds, which is insane. Yeah, like 188. That's so crazy, dude. So he weighed 12 pounds less than me. Think about that.
- [46:45]
Cameron Haynes
Five, ten and a quarter.
- [46:46]
Joe Rogan
He weighs 12. He's two inches taller than me and a little more. And then he weighs 12 pounds less.
- [46:52]
Cameron Haynes
Did he fight Joe Lewis in Sunny List?
- [46:54]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, he fought. No, no, no, no. He fought Joe Louis when Joe Louis was way past his prime and flatlined him. It was pretty brutal. It was a scary fight. It was. That's so crazy that he was only £188 and he was the heavyweight champ. Granted. This is a different world.
- [47:12]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. Different era.
- [47:12]
Joe Rogan
Different era.
- [47:13]
Cameron Haynes
There was no Tyson Fury, and there's.
- [47:15]
Joe Rogan
No Mike Tyson either.
- [47:16]
Cameron Haynes
Right.
- [47:16]
Joe Rogan
Like, everybody talks about Rocky Marciano. Rocky Marciano is great. Mike Tyson would have went through him like a train through a flock of sheep.
- [47:24]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [47:25]
Joe Rogan
It's a different world. Rocky Mountain, at his heaviest, he weighed 192.
- [47:29]
Cameron Haynes
Okay.
- [47:29]
Joe Rogan
He fought seven boxers who weighed more than 200 pounds. But people weren't that big back then, right? Sonny Liston was. Sonny Liston was big.
- [47:36]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. So he would have been £20 bigger. Bigger than Rocky Marciano? Sonny Liston, yes.
- [47:42]
Joe Rogan
But Mike Tyson wasn't that big when he was in his prime. When his prime was like 215, 220, you know, and 510 or 511 as well. He wasn't very big. And he was.
- [47:51]
Cameron Haynes
Did his. He was born in 69. Did I see that right?
- [47:54]
Joe Rogan
No, no, no. I think that's when he died.
- [47:56]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, okay. Let's just say he can't be younger than us.
- [48:00]
Joe Rogan
No, no, no, no, no. He was a heavyweight champion in the 1950s.
- [48:04]
Cameron Haynes
All right, never mind. I do feel old. It's not that old.
- [48:07]
Joe Rogan
Find Rocky Marciano, KO's Joe Louis. It was brutal because, you know, back then when you were 38 or whatever Joe Lewis was, when they fought, you were really 38. No nutrition. You know, Also, lifetime of fighting, probably needed the money, which is why he took the fight. It's not like the Joe Lewis that knocked out Max Schmeling in the height of the war. And it was like an America's hero. This is. This is Joe Lewis. When he's on his balding, he's got a big bald spot in the back but he's like. It's sad.
- [48:39]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [48:39]
Joe Rogan
And Rocky Marciano just mauls and him just.
- [48:42]
Cameron Haynes
That's what's crazy about. How did George Foreman reinvent himself when he was old?
- [48:47]
Joe Rogan
The thing is, like, one. One thing that you did see in this fight was the technical brilliance of Joe Lewis, especially early in the fight. Like, if they had fought in their prime, I think Lewis would have him up. That's my belief.
- [49:00]
Cameron Haynes
He's a lot bigger.
- [49:02]
Joe Rogan
He was. He was taller and. But he also had incredible power. How old was what? We'll ask after we watch this video. But he was doing really well for a while. But the thing about Marciano was he was not the most talented, but he did not get tired. And he hit like a truck. He hit like a truck, and he was just a animal. He just plowed forward. He never ran out of gas. Like, this is not like a technically skilled boxing match. He would just mall guys. He would just bob and weave, and this is the end of it. At the end, Joe Lewis goes through the ropes. It's sad, man. It's sad.
- [49:38]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, it's sad. That's a. That's.
- [49:41]
Joe Rogan
How old was Joe Lewis when he fought Rocky Marciano? That's pretty good, though. Yeah, up until, like, Rocky started catching him.
- [49:50]
Cameron Haynes
But this is how a lot of.
- [49:52]
Joe Rogan
Rocky's fights would go. Even his last fight, which was against. Was it against Archie Moore? I think he. He got dropped in that fight and just got up and just eventually pounded him and beat him down and KO'd him. Yeah, but he was just so fucking tough. Like, what he would do to himself was nothing compared to whatever was going to happen inside that ring.
- [50:16]
Cameron Haynes
Right. So that was. That was going to be my point. So he had all the success. Retired undefeated.
- [50:23]
Joe Rogan
Pretty young, too. People Knew he was 37. 37, okay. That's how old Powhatan is right now. Okay. That's how old Alex Pereira is right now.
- [50:32]
Cameron Haynes
Right.
- [50:33]
Joe Rogan
That's crazy. So 37 back then was, like, it was over.
- [50:37]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, yeah. So much older, but yeah. So when you look at Rocky's success, why weren't. Why even seeing that and there's fighters out there, why wouldn't they emulate his style, his training, his. Why? Why? If you. If that's what you do and you want the same type of success, why are you letting somebody outwork you?
- [50:58]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's not that simple. It's like, first of all, you're not as exposed to people like that, and I didn't know. Train with them. Yeah, they didn't know, he was doing videos. There's no. You might hear things, you know, but if you hear things like I heard Rocky's training seven days a week, 24 hours a day. You don't sleep. He only eats raw meat. You hear stories like that, and you're.
- [51:18]
Cameron Haynes
Like, that was Mickey. That was Rocky's train.
- [51:20]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, well, that, you know, but that you would hear exaggerations. You always hear exaggerations that come out of fight gyms.
- [51:29]
Cameron Haynes
But I would. I would want to believe those if I was a fighter and be like. Because didn't. Didn't Tyson used to say that? That's why I got up at 5 in the morning or 4 in the morning.
- [51:37]
Joe Rogan
Yes. Well, Tyson did train like that.
- [51:39]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [51:39]
Joe Rogan
You know who else trained like that forever? Marvin Hagler. Oh, I thought you say Floyd, Marvin Hagler trained like a warrior.
- [51:47]
Cameron Haynes
Right.
- [51:47]
Joe Rogan
He used to run in. He was to train on the sand dunes in the Cape of Cape Cod in the middle of the winter. And he would just be running, screaming, war.
- [51:58]
Cameron Haynes
Love that war.
- [52:00]
Joe Rogan
Just throwing punches. He would run in combat boots. Dude, he was an animal. He was an animal. Just Spartan. He would go to this provincetown inn, no phones. He would tell his wife and family, I'm gone. I don't exist. I'm gone for two months. It would just vanish. And every day would be the same thing. And he would spar. He would spar a lot. Hagler was sparring a hundred rounds a week, so he was sparring 20 rounds a day for five days in a row.
- [52:30]
Cameron Haynes
So.
- [52:31]
Joe Rogan
And he would bring in fresh sparring partners too. It's not like one guy he's beaten up for 20 rounds. No, he'd bring in. He would rotate five different sparring partners so they would all come in and do four rounds.
- [52:42]
Cameron Haynes
Do that too, kind of.
- [52:44]
Joe Rogan
Perhaps. I don't know. I mean, I don't know exactly. Khabib had unbelievably grueling training sessions. And, you know, that was one of the things that was so apparent, like with his, his endurance and his, his. Their discipline was like second to none. They were like, no girlfriends, no phones, no. No video games. You. We train.
- [53:06]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [53:07]
Joe Rogan
And, you know, recover, train, eat, recover, train. And you wanna, you wanna really be a champion. This is how you have to work. And this is how Islam Makachev is so good. That's why Khabib is so good. Those guys are disciplined. So this episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Speed dating is an interesting concept, isn't it? Setting an allotted amount of Time to get to know as many people as you can. It increases your chances of finding a good match and there's not a whole lot of room for bullshit. You have to cut to the chase to find what you're looking for. Wouldn't it be nice if you had something like that when it comes to hiring for your business? Well, good news. There's ZipRecruiter. Zip Recruiter has a new Zip Intro feature that helps speed up the hiring process conn you with qualified candidates faster. You can try it for free@ziprecruiter.com Rogan as soon as you post your job, Zip Intro will get to work. You could even be talking to candidates in back to back calls the very next day. All you have to do is pick a time and it'll start scheduling top talent for you to meet. Enjoy the benefits of speed hiring with the new Zip Intro feature only from ZipRecruiter rated the number one hiring site based on G2. Try Zip Intro for free at ZipRecruiter.com Rogan again that ZipRecruiter.com/rogan zip intro post jobs today. Talk to qualified candidates tomorrow.
- [54:42]
Cameron Haynes
If I think about it, you know, we love stories like that. We love all the sparring. But it can't. It's not going to lead to a long life.
- [54:51]
Joe Rogan
No.
- [54:52]
Cameron Haynes
I mean.
- [54:52]
Joe Rogan
No, no, no.
- [54:53]
Cameron Haynes
But is that the price to be a Rocky Marciano or a Khabib who has to retire at whatever he was 32 or whatever? It's like, is that what it takes it probably to be icon, to be legends. Yeah.
- [55:06]
Joe Rogan
You give up something to get something. Like I don't think. Yeah. I don't think you can be completely balanced to be and be the best ever. But you know, it depends on how you're doing it. You know, like the thing that's so brilliant about Floyd Mayweather is that if you look at his career, he might have been really hit hard four or five times.
- [55:27]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [55:27]
Joe Rogan
In his whole career. Which is insanity. I mean he really is only. Right. That's Hagler.
- [55:31]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [55:32]
Joe Rogan
In the snow screaming war dude. What is the best.
- [55:39]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, but so why do we love stories like this?
- [55:42]
Joe Rogan
Well, for me, when I was a kid, Hagler was the man.
- [55:45]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [55:46]
Joe Rogan
You know, when I was in high school.
- [55:47]
Cameron Haynes
But we still, we still love them now.
- [55:49]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [55:50]
Cameron Haynes
I love like that clip you sent me yesterday.
- [55:52]
Joe Rogan
Oh yeah. Or this, this clip is the same. Same YouTube website. It's Boxing Live. Is that the YouTube channel? It's a really good channel, but with the Hagler's discipline was just. It was so admirable. Like he didn't have to go to Cape Cod in the middle of the winter.
- [56:08]
Cameron Haynes
Right.
- [56:08]
Joe Rogan
He did it because he wanted to be separated. He wanted to live a spartan life. Look, he would run backwards.
- [56:12]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [56:13]
Joe Rogan
Throwing punches, and that's. I think that's either Goody or Pat. The Petronelli brothers were the guys who trained them. But like, this is his workout. Six mile run, steep hills, running backwards, Breakfast, rest, watch tv, film, late lunch, Boxing, training, strength and conditioning, dinner, watch film and sleep, repeat, rinse, do it again, day after day after day.
- [56:36]
Cameron Haynes
That's it. Yeah, he was too much chill out in there.
- [56:39]
Joe Rogan
And my favorite fight with him was against John the Beast Mugabe, because everybody points to the Hearns fight where he beat the shit out of Hearns and KO'd him. Incredible, incredible, incredible. Knockout for sure. One of the best boxing matches, one of the best, most entertaining, entertaining world championship fights of all time. But for me, it was Mugabe because Mugabe was uniquely talented. Mugabe had insane power. I remember I was at a boxing gym in Massachusetts at the time. Mugabe was about to fight Hagler when Mugabe was coming up. And they were telling me stories about Mugabe fighting guys and they never fought again. They had brain damage, you know, I don't know how. Again, boxing, gym talk, it's hard to know.
- [57:20]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [57:21]
Joe Rogan
But I remember being a kid listening to this going, what the fuck? Like he hit that hard. Mugabe just was flattening people. See if you can find John Mugabe. Who did he ko? Did he KO Terry Norris? No, that was later. Who did John Mugabe fight that he knocked out?
- [57:40]
Cameron Haynes
Best KOs.
- [57:42]
Joe Rogan
Let's see. Pull up John Mugabe's record. So John Mugabe was like almost kind of. Okay, here, top John Mugabe greatest knockouts. He was almost like a Francis Ngannou guy where it's like his power was just so crazy. You would watch him hit people and you go, what the man? Oh, this is Julian Jackson, right? Is that who it is? Pretty sure he KO'd Julian Jackson or maybe that was Terry. No, Julian Jackson, KO Terry Norris. But, you know, he just had just extraordinary power. Are they showing the kos here? This is just a lot of boxing. Here it is. Here he goes. Oh, yeah, bro. He just had this one punch knockout power. And when he fought Hagler, man, he caught Hagler with some big shots. Yeah, and one of the more impressive things about Marvin was not just that he was such a big puncher and a great boxer, but Also how durable he was because he was in such incredible shape. You know, he never went down his entire career. He has one knockdown, and it was 100% bullshit. He fought this guy named Juan Roldan, and when Hagler was bending over, Juan Roldan kind of cuffed him in the back of the neck and he fell forward. And they called it a knockdown. It was not a knockdown. And most boxing experts, I would. I would actually argue that all boxing experts agree that that was not a real knockdown. So you're talking about a guy who fought Tommy Hearns.
- [59:09]
Cameron Haynes
He fought that last one.
- [59:10]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [59:10]
Cameron Haynes
It was a little illegal, a little on the.
- [59:12]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, on the one knee down in kos. Him. Yeah. But the point is, Mugabe was terrifying, and he was. Everybody up, and Hagler broke him. But in the beginning, it was rough. In the beginning, it was rough. Mugabe was landing some big shots. See if you can find Mugabe. Well, I know it's available. Mugabe versus Hagler, it was mean, too, man. Like hitting guys where they're down. Dangerous, dangerous guy. And I don't know if he fought again after Hagler KO'd him, but he was never, never in the conversation again. Hagler broke him. Hagler told him he was going to retire him. He's like, I'm going to retire him. He's never going to box again. And he just beat him down. And I think it was the 11th round when he finally stopped him.
- [59:54]
Cameron Haynes
5, 8 and 5, 9.
- [59:55]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. 160. You know, that's about right. You know, generally speaking, for, you know, heavily muscled guys, especially back then, those guys were not cutting a lot of weight like they are today.
- [60:04]
Cameron Haynes
Right.
- [60:04]
Joe Rogan
Like, some of these guys today are cutting big weight.
- [60:07]
Cameron Haynes
God, Hagler looks good.
- [60:09]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. By the time the eighth round started happening, Haggle. One of the things about Hagler that was so good was Hagler could switch. So he could fight you southpaw, and then in the middle of nowhere, he would switch up and start fighting you orthodox and was just as good, just as good. The only guy who's like that is Terence Crawford, who's champion now. He's the only guy that I've ever seen that fights just as good from southpaw as from orthodox. But Hagler was a rarity back then. A guy that could switch it up like that, like nobody had ever seen that before.
- [60:39]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [60:40]
Joe Rogan
But that's also why it was very difficult for him to get fights early on, because nobody really wanted to fight a southpaw. Like, southpaws were they were too awkward. Everything's backwards.
- [60:50]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [60:50]
Joe Rogan
And if you're not used to fighting southpaws, they have an advantage because they're always fighting orthodox people.
- [60:55]
Cameron Haynes
Right, that makes sense.
- [60:57]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. And so they're accustomed to that one. Look now, this fight had gone back and forth and back and forth. This is the end. This is when Hagler finally gets him. Boom. And that was it. And I think that was the 11th or the 12th round. I think it was the 11th round of a 12 round fight. So Hagler fought in the era where they used to have 15 round fights and they turned them into 12 rounders after Duck who Kim died when Ray Mancini ko'duckoo Kim.
- [61:23]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. It's a lot of damage. 15 rounds of head shots.
- [61:26]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, man. Well, I mean, I think that's why Rocky Marciano retired when he was 32 and you know, 49. Zero.
- [61:32]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [61:33]
Joe Rogan
And 32 years old. He could have kept fighting, could have kept making money. 32 is your athletic prime.
- [61:38]
Cameron Haynes
That's what I'm thinking. Like in, you know, Khabib did the same thing. And when I. I just love seeing those training camp videos. Carrying the rocks and running the mountains and it's just like. But you know, back to my point, why do we love that? Just because it's so primal or. And it's just. Just men just giving everything they have.
- [61:58]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [61:59]
Cameron Haynes
It's like it's. And it's one reason why Goggins is such a draw.
- [62:04]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [62:04]
Cameron Haynes
You know, he's sort of like that.
- [62:07]
Joe Rogan
Oh, he's very much like that. But the craziest thing about Goggins is he's not even training for anything. I asked him about. He goes, I'm downloading, downloading information. I'm like, you're downloading. What are you downloading? This is so crazy. We were talking about the video that he. That Style Bender just put out. Shout out to Stylebender for putting this out too. We were also giving him credit because. Respect because David broke him. The higher we go.
- [62:31]
Cameron Haynes
Because if they're hurting that comment you're hurting, you are willing to go to another level. Higher.
- [62:37]
Joe Rogan
That's when you break them. Come off and you see where your world ends, mine begins. Where your world ends, mine begins. And this is one of Goggin's multiple workouts of the day that he took Stylebender through.
- [62:54]
Cameron Haynes
Stylebender's off the.
- [62:56]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. And he's. They're helping him back up, by the way. This is after they already ran. This is like the second. This is the third Thing they did, they ran, then they did the Airdyne bike, and then they're doing this. So they did sprints on the Airdyne bike. They ran for distance. I don't know how many miles they ran. But he was exhausted after the run, then exhausted after the air dying. And then he does this, and then they do it all over again. Yeah, they start again with the fucking air dye machine. They go back and forth and then it goes to sit ups and then it goes to just like it never ends. And this is one. And then people go, he's not doing that every day. Well, fucking clearly he is. Every day, clearly he is, because look at him, he's not even breathing heavy. Stylebender is dying and David Goggins is talking to him with normal breath. At the same time, a world champion, one of the greatest middleweights of all time, can't even keep his food down.
- [63:49]
Cameron Haynes
And remember, this is stylebender, who, against Kevin Gastelum, was saying, I'm prepared to die. Going into the fifth round. Looks across the ring cage says, I'm prepared to die. Same guy.
- [64:02]
Joe Rogan
Same guy, yeah. There's levels when it comes to endurance, you know, And I was telling you about when we're getting our infusions, when we were vaping stem cells today, I was telling you about BJ Penn when he was in his prime. When BJ Penn was in his prime, he was training with Marv Marinovich. And Marv Marinovich had very unorthodox training methods where it was all plyometrics, explosive drills, sprints, box jumps, all this crazy stuff. And he believed, and I hope I'm not quoting him incorrectly, but he believed that fight training was of secondary importance when you're in camp. And really what was important is to just have a fucking insane gas tank. Like, BJ Penn knows how to fight. He's a world champion. He's not going to forget how to fight. But you could get him training this way where you have this gas tank. That's just insane. And when BJ Penn was training with him, he was unstoppable, man. He was like, I always say this, like, people talk about Khabib being the greatest lightweight of all time, and maybe he is. It's very possible he is. But I would put the BJ Penn that fought Joe Daddy Stevenson, the BJ Penn that fought Sean Shirk, the BJ Penn that was like in that peak when he was training with, I would put him against anybody, against anybody, against DA when he fought Diego Sanchez, he couldn't be Stopped. And if you got him to the ground, his fucking submission game was insane. It was insane. Off of his back. He would take your back, you're dead. He would kn. Outstanding up. His kickboxing was elite.
- [65:34]
Cameron Haynes
And how do you think Khabib would fight him?
- [65:36]
Joe Rogan
Take him down for sure. He'd probably fight him the same way George St. Pierre did, you know. But the difference in size between BJ Pen and George St. Pierre is pretty significant.
- [65:45]
Cameron Haynes
Right.
- [65:46]
Joe Rogan
BJ Penn was really 155 pound guy who actually later in his career fought 145 when he later, you know, which was, you know, when he was kind of at the end of his career. But, but the, but you know, George is way bigger. Like, George was a big 170. Big, muscular 170 with wide shoulders, nasty ground and pound, and a black belt in jiu jitsu himself. And also a really good striker and just, you know, in his prime when he was so well rounded.
- [66:14]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [66:15]
Joe Rogan
And there was also accusations of greasing, you know, because, you know, George was very slippery.
- [66:21]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [66:21]
Joe Rogan
Fight. Which is if you're a grappler, another person, you can't get a hold of him. Especially if you're a guy like BJ who fights so well off of his back.
- [66:29]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [66:29]
Joe Rogan
DJs legs were like arms where he could be sitting there without using his hands. He could put his feet in the lotus position. So like completely cross and lock his legs in the lotus position without using his hands at all.
- [66:43]
Cameron Haynes
Wow.
- [66:43]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Crazy flexibility and dexterity.
- [66:46]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [66:46]
Joe Rogan
So if you were trapped in his guard, you were.
- [66:49]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. You see those guys who, they're on their. They're on their back and they get their leg up around the guy with the top position's head.
- [66:56]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [66:57]
Cameron Haynes
Somehow, you know, just when you're in like any.
- [67:00]
Joe Rogan
It's terrifying. Eddie Bravo has the craziest guard I've ever been in. It's so nuts. And there's a bunch of Eddie students like Jeremiah Vance who also have these like insane guards like that. There's certain guys where, like, if you're. If they're on their back, it's no picnic. Like Fabricio Verdum, he tapped Fedor Emelianenko from his back. He got him in an armbar triangle from his back.
- [67:20]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [67:21]
Joe Rogan
Like.
- [67:21]
Cameron Haynes
Well, you could tell like if we talk about a recent fight, Chandler versus Patty Pemblett. Chandler didn't really want to be on the ground with Patty.
- [67:29]
Joe Rogan
No.
- [67:29]
Cameron Haynes
And Chandler's a wrestler. Like he loves being on top ground, but still he had top position and Was still nervous about doing stuff. It seemed like.
- [67:38]
Joe Rogan
I don't know. Yes. Well, Patty.
- [67:39]
Cameron Haynes
But it seemed like it.
- [67:40]
Joe Rogan
Patty's a big lightweight. He really is. I mean, I know he gets real fat in between fights, but he's big.
- [67:47]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [67:48]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, he's. He's big. You know, he's a lot bigger than people think. I always say that he tricks people by dancing and having silly hair. And you go, oh, that's a killer. He's, like, tricking you. He's like, you know, he's like one of them. Them bugs that pretends to stick, and you get close and it jacks you.
- [68:04]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, he looked. He looks so good.
- [68:07]
Joe Rogan
He's really good, which I.
- [68:08]
Cameron Haynes
You know, I'm. You know, chan. I love Chandler. Love Chandler. That was a tough one to watch.
- [68:14]
Joe Rogan
I. I love Chandler as well. I love Patty as well. Patty is very impressive.
- [68:18]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, yeah.
- [68:19]
Joe Rogan
You know, there's a good argument, all of them, that the last three guys he fought, Bobby Green, Chandler, and Tony Ferguson. Like, he's fighting guys with losing records. Which is true. You know that is true. But it's still very impressive what he did to Chandler in comparison to, like, what Oliveira did. Like, Oliveira was in real trouble in the third round of their last fight. Real trouble and real trouble in the first round of their first fight.
- [68:45]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [68:46]
Joe Rogan
And Patty was never in trouble.
- [68:47]
Cameron Haynes
Chandler was this close to having that belt.
- [68:49]
Joe Rogan
Yes. This close in the first round. This close.
- [68:52]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [68:53]
Joe Rogan
And maybe just got. Yeah, sure. Thank you. Maybe just got a little overzealous in that fight.
- [68:58]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, he was excited.
- [69:00]
Joe Rogan
I mean, the second round, who wouldn't be? Yeah. But also, Oliveira is a master.
- [69:05]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, yeah.
- [69:05]
Joe Rogan
So good.
- [69:06]
Cameron Haynes
Well, that his fight against, I think Arman, Right. Was so, so good. I was watching those guys fight, and I'm just like, I've never seen two guys this crisp. Good, technical, just never out of position hardly.
- [69:20]
Joe Rogan
And Charles almost caught him twice in two very close submission attacks.
- [69:24]
Cameron Haynes
Looks like he was out at. At one time. He wasn't moving.
- [69:27]
Joe Rogan
Well, he got it. He was pretty locked in, but he wasn't out. But it was very close.
- [69:32]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [69:32]
Joe Rogan
I mean, very close. I think he should have won that fight. In my opinion, those positions where Charles had, where you were that close to finishing a fight count for a lot.
- [69:41]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [69:41]
Joe Rogan
And I think that's part of the problem with scoring system. It's one thing if you, like, go for a guillotine, the guy gets out of it immediately. You're on your back getting beat up. That submission attempt, that's not that much. When A guy has a fully locked in Darce choke and you're almost out, and you get saved by the bell. That should count for a lot.
- [69:58]
Cameron Haynes
What's the best position for a Darce? Because they were both kind of flat on the ground.
- [70:03]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. There's a bunch of different ways you can catch a Darce, but the way a Darce works is like, say if you have an underhook, which means your left arm is wrapped around my waist. What I want to do is shove my arm under your armpit so it pops out the side of your neck. Then I want to wrap my bicep around like this. So I lock my arm around one side of your neck and this. And then I'm squeezing.
- [70:26]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [70:27]
Joe Rogan
So that's Tony Ferguson. He had a nasty, nasty Darce. Yeah, his. Tony's Darce was elite because Tony has long. You see him catching it standing up there.
- [70:37]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [70:38]
Joe Rogan
Tony has long arms and he's strong as. And he's got, like a great grappling base because he started off as a wrestler.
- [70:45]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, there. Yeah. See, there's Charles. Is that.
- [70:47]
Joe Rogan
Charles is up on top right there? Yeah, yeah.
- [70:50]
Cameron Haynes
Because that's what I saying. They're kind of laying both flat. I just didn't know what was best.
- [70:55]
Joe Rogan
Well, that's not ideal. Ideal is when you get the guy on his back. And then you could lock like the Dustin Poirier one where Islam has him. See how dust in the. The lower right hand corner. Yeah, that's it right there. So that's him against. Go a little higher there. That's. That's Hanato Moicano. But one of the things you see about Islam, he's a very unique way of doing the dars is Islam grabs his own wrist like this to finish it.
- [71:27]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [71:27]
Joe Rogan
Whereas other guys go all the way down to the bicep. And the thing about grabbing the wrist like that, that's really good, is you can make it a little bit tighter in a situation where you can't. Like some guys, they have too much bulk and maybe your arms are too short. You can't get the. Like. Having long arms is really important for a. Darts. Like, Jon Jones must have a wicked dart because you can get the arms all the way through. If they're long, then you can cinch it up. But Islam cinches it up, actually by grabbing a hold of his wrist, and so it gives you extra space. And the grip that he uses is incredibly tight. He's also insanely strong.
- [72:06]
Cameron Haynes
Who. Who is?
- [72:07]
Joe Rogan
Islam. Islam is insanely strong. Like, he's got that sort of elite grappling strength that comes from decades of throwing human bodies around. Yeah, there's a thing about that. Like here is his. Demetrius Johnson says, I felt it. I know. Max Holloway just texted me. How strong is that Darce?
- [72:27]
Cameron Haynes
That's.
- [72:28]
Joe Rogan
That's a sick darling. Islam is elite. Yeah, he's elite when it comes to like strangling people. So is Ilya Toporia. He's got a nasty Darce too.
- [72:37]
Cameron Haynes
Aren't they fighting?
- [72:38]
Joe Rogan
I don't know.
- [72:39]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, that never got signed.
- [72:41]
Joe Rogan
It's. The word is. And this is only from the Internet. This is not from Dana. And if he told me, he'd probably tell me not to tell anybody. So I won't tell you. But the word on the Internet is that Ilya plans to fight in the June card, the big international fight. We card at the end of June. Whether or not it's for the title. He said he's only fighting for the title. That's what he said. Unless he said Conor McGregor. He said I'd fight Conor McGregor or the title. I think he's just fight Conor McGregor because he knows the numbers would be fucking insane.
- [73:12]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [73:12]
Joe Rogan
Millions of dollars.
- [73:14]
Cameron Haynes
How? How?
- [73:16]
Joe Rogan
But it doesn't mean he's fighting Islam because Islam might decide I'm going to go up to 170.
- [73:20]
Cameron Haynes
Right? Yeah.
- [73:21]
Joe Rogan
Like here's what could happen because Islam's been talking about fighting 170.
- [73:24]
Cameron Haynes
70.
- [73:25]
Joe Rogan
If Bilal Muhammad, who's the current welterweight champion, who's going to fight Jack Della Madeleina, which is only in like a couple of weeks. Right. When is that? When is that one?
- [73:36]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, that's coming up.
- [73:37]
Joe Rogan
They might hold that announcement until that fight. So Islam and Bilal were training partners and apparently Khabib does not want Islam to fight Bilal. But if Bilal loses to Jack Della Madeleina, then it's a no brainer.
- [73:53]
Cameron Haynes
What. Why do you. Why doesn't he not want him to.
- [73:56]
Joe Rogan
Fight him next Saturday, May 10th? Yeah. So it's real soon. So all that we'd have to do is hold off their announcement until May.
- [74:05]
Cameron Haynes
I see.
- [74:06]
Joe Rogan
So if Bilal wins, then there's an issue because Khabib does not want Islam apparent. Allegedly. Apparently doesn't want them fighting because they're brothers. You know, they train together.
- [74:16]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, I see.
- [74:17]
Joe Rogan
But Islam's big. I mean he easily could be fighting at 170. It's probably torture for him to get down to 155.
- [74:24]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [74:24]
Joe Rogan
Whenever I interview him, I'm like, are you 155.
- [74:26]
Cameron Haynes
This is so crazy that that would show rough weight cuts for him. It seems like it's rough.
- [74:31]
Joe Rogan
He's big. He's probably 190 plus. Look at that. Boom. Oh, yeah. Islam says, I'm going to submit you with that. Because that's your. That's your thing. Islam says, or excuse me, Ilia says that he's going to submit. Islam, whatever his favorite move is. He's like, tell me your favorite choke. Tell me your favorite submission. That's what I'm going to submit you with.
- [74:51]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [74:51]
Joe Rogan
You know, it's easy to say, you know, that's a. That's an elite level and a lot bigger.
- [74:58]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. I was gonna. I was gonna ask, like, you know, how hard is it? Or who is the next star? Because, you know, we kind of saw this with Rhonda when she was coming out of the women's division. It's like, who is the next star going to be? Conor. Still people are trying to call Conor out because they know of that money that's involved with it. How do we get that next superstar?
- [75:23]
Joe Rogan
Well, they have to win. You know, it was sugar. Sean O'Malley could have had it if he beat Merab, you know, but that's a nightmare matchup. And he had a up hip going into that fight, which is. It's one of those things. The UFC was putting on this big show at the Sphere, which was insane, by the way. If they ever do one again, you gotta go. Yeah, just spheres.
- [75:45]
Cameron Haynes
Crazy. Yeah. I remember watching it.
- [75:47]
Joe Rogan
It's so crazy. It's like a total experience in and unto itself. I need to go to a concert there. It's the most amazing venue I've ever seen in my life. And it's. There's not even a close second. Like, nothing's close. There's a really cool one in LA that just opened up that we did a LA card there a few months back that was really good, too. But it's like one tenth of the sphere. The sphere's nuts.
- [76:09]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, it's so nuts. It looked insane on. On tv.
- [76:13]
Joe Rogan
And the sound. The sound, you feel it through your fucking bones. So it's wild.
- [76:18]
Cameron Haynes
That was like, last May 5th, wasn't it?
- [76:21]
Joe Rogan
I believe so, yeah.
- [76:22]
Cameron Haynes
Cinco de Mayo.
- [76:23]
Joe Rogan
So for him to take that fight with a bad hip is crazy. And I know he did it because he thought he could win anyway because he's a champion, and that's how champions think.
- [76:34]
Cameron Haynes
You have to.
- [76:35]
Joe Rogan
But with a bad hip, when you're fighting a wrestler and you weren't wrestling at all in training, because your hips bad. That's crazy. That's like. You got. You got to get it fixed. Just get it fixed. Tell them it blew out and you can't walk. Get it fixed. You got to think about the legacy in the future. And taking a fight against a guy who's an elite grappler while you have a blown hip is kind of insane. If you can't grapple, like, it seems insane.
- [77:02]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. I mean, he could have won. I think it's that mindset. You just have to have. It kind of can get you in trouble, too.
- [77:08]
Joe Rogan
And you look at how good his takedown defense was against Aljamain Sterling. So Al. Jermaine Sterling, in the first round, tried to take Sean down. He could not take him down, and that was a big factor. Like, Al Jermaine was in trouble because if you can't take him down. And Sean is a sniper. He's a sniper, and he knows how to find that chin, man. He's. He's got a pull right hand that's, like, from the textbooks, and the one he would hit Al Jama with, that's on. That's going to be in that UFC when they play the who. Yeah, when they play Bob O'Reilly. That'll be on that forever. That is such a clean right hand. Yeah, it's such a pullback.
- [77:46]
Cameron Haynes
And Al Jermaine saw it coming. Oh, you can see his face.
- [77:50]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. He's like, oh, no, what have I done?
- [77:52]
Cameron Haynes
I know.
- [77:53]
Joe Rogan
And I bet he thought he could do that to Merab, too. And he might have been able to, but Merab is a different. Merab's a different species of. So again, same kind of guy.
- [78:01]
Cameron Haynes
I know.
- [78:02]
Joe Rogan
Same kind of guy.
- [78:03]
Cameron Haynes
So, listen, I've had to. We've been kind of dealing with this, with. With my kids and Truitt and all this stuff he's been doing, but I think those. Those fighters we're talking about, it just made me think of my kids. But when you start them at as kids, like. Like the guys, like Khabib Dagestani guys, Merab. Those guys have been training forever, right?
- [78:29]
Joe Rogan
Yep. For sure.
- [78:30]
Cameron Haynes
Forever.
- [78:31]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, for sure.
- [78:32]
Cameron Haynes
That has to give you. Yeah. You have to have other abilities and talents and skills and this mindset. But when you start that early.
- [78:40]
Joe Rogan
By the way, Rocky Marciano didn't start boxing until he was 23. Okay.
- [78:45]
Cameron Haynes
Well, there goes my theory.
- [78:48]
Joe Rogan
And, you know, he had one of his amateur fights. He was exhausted, so he vowed to never, never be tired again. Yeah. He gassed out in a Fight. He's like, never again. So he just decided he was good. But it's also like, he was Italian from immigrant parents who barely could speak English.
- [79:07]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [79:07]
Joe Rogan
And those people who came over on the boat, they were a different species, right? There are different species of hard workers. Those people were tough, and they demanded so much.
- [79:18]
Cameron Haynes
Joey Diaz, immigrant mentality.
- [79:20]
Joe Rogan
Immigrant mentality, Yeah. I mean, that's real. Immigrant mentality is a real thing. When you've come here from another country and you see how hard your family works, and there's just like. There's no if, ands, or buts. I always tell the story about this guy that I used to train with that always used to make me feel lazy. My friend Jung Sik. He was in his residency in medical school while he was on the US national team. So he was a national Taekwondo champion while he was going through medical school. So he was going to school 12 hours a day and still training. And he would put his books in his backpack and run stairs in between studying. That's how you get in shape sometimes. And then he would come to the gym exhausted and fuck everybody up. It was amazing. And I was. I remember thinking, like, I'm so lazy. Like, I thought, and I wasn't lazy, but, like, compared to that, dude, I was lazy.
- [80:12]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. How? I just. That's what fascinates me, because, you know, I've talked to Huberman about Courtney in regard. In this regard, too. It's like willpower.
- [80:21]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [80:21]
Cameron Haynes
Like will. How? What gives somebody more willpower than another person?
- [80:28]
Joe Rogan
It's hard to say, because according to Goggins, he forged that. And he has more will than any human being that's ever walked the face of the planet. And he used to be a lazy. He'll tell you. He'll tell you. I was lazy. I was fat, 300 pounds. I drank milkshakes all day. Like, he'll tell you.
- [80:43]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [80:44]
Joe Rogan
Like. And then he decided that that's not him anymore, and then he decided it better than anybody who ever has. So it's not like he had some genetic gift of will.
- [80:53]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [80:53]
Joe Rogan
That's not the case. He forged it.
- [80:56]
Cameron Haynes
And this, you know, Huberman talks about this. Whatever.
- [80:59]
Joe Rogan
That part of your brain.
- [81:00]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. That you can grow. So is it that. That anybody can develop this willpower?
- [81:05]
Joe Rogan
Well, I think Goggins proves that because he's. Again, he's. He's the goat. He's the goat when it comes to, like, Will. And people don't know what Goggins was doing with Izzy. Goggins has two destroyed Knees. Okay. I had dinner with him in Vegas a few weeks back and he showed me like, some recent X rays of his knees because he got some new thing in his knee to like to keep his bones from smashing into each other. Some post that they put at the top of one of his knees because his cartilage is missing and his meniscus is blown out. And they saw the top of his bone and shifted it down and screwed it in place because his knee was all out of alignment. Because he had been running bone on bone so long that his, his bones were starting to just. It's like called wolf something syndrome. And his doctor said, I've never seen it in a human being before. Like, this is insane. Like, like, how do. How are you walking on these knees? Forget about running thousands of miles. Yeah, but he does it. He just does it, right? And if that guy will tell you that he didn't have any willpower and then he was fat and lazy and then decided that it's not going to be that anymore and then put himself through grueling strength conditioning, became a Navy seal.
- [82:18]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [82:19]
Joe Rogan
And then look at. He's laughing.
- [82:24]
Cameron Haynes
I love bringing them in.
- [82:25]
Joe Rogan
Come on in. Let's see how much of a joke this is. And guess what? I drop this. Alone. Alone, I ain't got nobody. That's where the comes from. I ain't got nobody to push to this level. That's my darkness. That's why I laugh at these. You think they know me?
- [82:39]
Cameron Haynes
You think you know me?
- [82:40]
Joe Rogan
Coming to my dungeon? It's a lonely dungeon.
- [82:42]
Cameron Haynes
Because you don't want to do this.
- [82:43]
Joe Rogan
Alone every day, train this hard by yourself. Come on, man. And this is. You see me breathing hectic. Me. Imagine the level I go to. Somebody call the police.
- [82:57]
Cameron Haynes
Good clip.
- [82:58]
Joe Rogan
I mean, how do you not admire that? Look. Oh, he is psycho.
- [83:02]
Cameron Haynes
I love it.
- [83:03]
Joe Rogan
He is psycho.
- [83:04]
Cameron Haynes
I love it.
- [83:04]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, he is psycho.
- [83:06]
Cameron Haynes
I said, we joke around about, you know, because he says it's so easy to be great nowadays because everybody else is weak. That's what Goggins says, Right?
- [83:14]
Joe Rogan
Interesting.
- [83:15]
Cameron Haynes
And it's like, like when you talk about. Yeah, we talk about generations. And you've mentioned it a million times. Good times. Create sophomore, all that whole thing. But I said, well, we got one. We got Truett. So we got the. We got one kid who's. Who's still getting it done. So.
- [83:30]
Joe Rogan
Well, your son learned from you. I mean, that's a great example of, you know, he's grew up in an environment where his father was regularly running these Hundred mile races and regularly running 13 miles in the morning before work. Like you were doing all that stuff and you were setting the example.
- [83:47]
Cameron Haynes
I was going to show you something.
- [83:48]
Joe Rogan
And then he sees how far it takes you in life. You know, you've gotten here by just force of will.
- [83:55]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. And when I true sent me this today. So this is his first half marathon. Can you see that?
- [84:01]
Joe Rogan
Oh, wow. He's a little kid, but he still.
- [84:05]
Cameron Haynes
Ran 8 minute miles in that.
- [84:07]
Joe Rogan
That's incredible as a little kid.
- [84:10]
Cameron Haynes
But anyway, that's like, that's what I was saying about when you start that early with stuff like that, you get used to it.
- [84:17]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. But then again, Goggins, you know, tell you different or Rocky Marciano will tell you different. Like he didn't. I don't think there's a hard fast rule. Look at that. Look at you guys.
- [84:29]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, that was his first marathon.
- [84:31]
Joe Rogan
That's so cute. Yeah, there's no hard fast rules. Like, yes, it's definitely beneficial as far as skill development. This is what I've always said about striking. In particular, there's something about learning. Striking while your body is maturing and you're young is way better than learning striking once you're an adult.
- [84:53]
Cameron Haynes
Because you said that with your, with your kick.
- [84:55]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [84:56]
Cameron Haynes
Because your body was changing as you developed that kick and mastered it.
- [84:59]
Joe Rogan
Exactly. I was kicking in all kicks. You know, it's not like that's the only one that I'm really elite at that. I, I, you know, I learned how to kick when I was like a little gangly little kid. And I learned like, and then my body grew strong, my tendons grew strong from hitting this 150 pound heavy bag every day. Like as a little kid, just whap, whap, whap. And I basically lived in the gym, so I was kicking that bag hours every day. I was just constantly setting it up and training. I was constantly setting up moves until I got them like, like where it's like instinctive. Like I didn't even know it was happening before it happened. Like when I was in a fight, it would just come out. Like when you see the opening, you're not even seeing it, you're just moving.
- [85:42]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [85:42]
Joe Rogan
It's like it all goes into this instinct. And the only way that happens is just insane hours. Insane hours, constant dedication.
- [85:51]
Cameron Haynes
But, but as your body was growing.
- [85:54]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [85:54]
Cameron Haynes
And you're putting that, the stressors on it and exactly those movements on it, your body adapted essentially. So it's like if you're already mature, your Body wouldn't have adapted the same as it did because you're doing it at the perfect age.
- [86:07]
Joe Rogan
You can get really good if you're a really good athlete and you pick up striking later in life. But you're not going to get Floyd Mayweather good. I don't think. I've never seen it. Rocky Marciano, even wasn't Floyd Mayweather level. He was just a Mauler. He was just. And he would never stop.
- [86:25]
Cameron Haynes
Couldn't hurt him.
- [86:26]
Joe Rogan
You couldn't hurt him. His endurance was insane. The volume was insane. You know, he would just make guys rethink their whole lives because he'd be like, what the man? Like that guy. That guy's out there. I don't want that. He just never stopped. But he wasn't like Floyd was an. A master. He was a master in there. He would stand right in front of you and you couldn't hit him. Stand stood right in front of Canelo Alvarez, and Canelo couldn't do with him. And Canelo Alvarez, a world champion, one of the best ever. He couldn't do with Floyd.
- [86:59]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, I mean, do you think that would be less intimidating fighting somebody like that? Because he didn't have that power, like the knockout power.
- [87:06]
Joe Rogan
And he also had brittle hands. Like Floyd's broken his hands multiple times.
- [87:10]
Cameron Haynes
You knew you weren't just gonna get.
- [87:12]
Joe Rogan
Mauled, you wouldn't get mugabi. Right, right.
- [87:15]
Cameron Haynes
You're gonna. It's. You're not gonna be able to hit him and it's gonna suck and be frustrating, but.
- [87:20]
Joe Rogan
But he doesn't hit like, hack.
- [87:21]
Cameron Haynes
You're not gonna be at a pool of blood.
- [87:22]
Joe Rogan
Right, right, right. He's not gonna beat you down and stop you. Like the thing about Hagler was like, ha hit because his chin was iron. He didn't mind, and he wanted to smile at you when you hit him. One of the things he said about Mugabe after the fight, they said it seemed like Mugabe caught you with a big shot. He goes, oh, yeah, I like when that stuff happens. I like a good fight. This is what he said after he knocked him out. And like when, when the ring announcer was saying, the winner and still the undisputed middleweight champion of the world. Hagler's like saying it out loud to himself. The undisputed middleweight champ of the world. I mean, that's a guy that just went through hell for months in the snow at the Cape Cod, and then he just beats the scariest guy in the division. And at that point in time, this was before the Leonard fight. He was talking about retiring, and you'd.
- [88:09]
Cameron Haynes
Have to know if you were a fighter in his division or potentially going to fight him. And you saw that after a war and then you see him acting like that, you're probably just like, bro, when.
- [88:18]
Joe Rogan
He knocked on Mugabe, it was an outdoor fight and steam was coming off of his head. Oh, I could just, like, at the end of the fight, see if you can go to the. The end of the fight when Mugabe drops and they raise his hand and he's celebrating. As he's celebrating and walking around, steam is coming off of his head. Yeah, he was a monster.
- [88:39]
Cameron Haynes
Those, those. I don't know. I'm addicted to these video viral clips because. So now I got two of them. You just remind me of. There's one. Have you ever heard of Bad Water? It's. It's called Badwater 135, I think. But it's a race in Death Valley.
- [88:55]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [88:55]
Cameron Haynes
Okay.
- [88:56]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [88:56]
Cameron Haynes
So Goggins did that. And it gets like 130 degrees, where you have to, because it's on the highway through Death Valley, so you have to run, like, on the white line so your. Your shoes don't melt, and you wear kind of all white because it's so hot, but it gets 130 degrees. So Goggins, his first time doing that, he's got, you know, his physical issues, like always, but he finishes, he gets third place. I believe they come up to him and they're like, so how was. What was like out there? How is the heat? And he just was, like, sitting there just in the. In his chair like this. And he looks at the camera, he's like, didn't notice. Didn't notice it was 130 degrees. That one is just. I love that one.
- [89:39]
Joe Rogan
But that's. That's real. What do you got there? What was that? Jeremy.
- [89:47]
Cameron Haynes
Goggins is described as one of.
- [89:49]
Joe Rogan
The toughest men on the planet. He's the only man in history to complete elite training. Why. Why is this. That's terrible. Why do they have music so much louder when someone's talking?
- [90:01]
Cameron Haynes
I hate that.
- [90:02]
Joe Rogan
So there's There didn't even notice it.
- [90:04]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, there's that one.
- [90:07]
Joe Rogan
This is the. Here's the haggler one.
- [90:09]
Cameron Haynes
Okay. Look at the steam.
- [90:10]
Joe Rogan
See the steam coming off his head? Look at that. That's so insane. Steam.
- [90:16]
Cameron Haynes
What is it about just people being shredded and just weapons?
- [90:21]
Joe Rogan
Well, it's just inspirational, man. It makes you want to go to the gym. I mean, when I see Goggins making Izzy Puke and break. Yeah, it makes me want to work out. I mean, when I talk to you, makes me want to work out when I know that you're out there running 13 miles when you were, when you had your full time job. Boy, I try to talk you out of that for so long, it's.
- [90:41]
Cameron Haynes
It's crazy.
- [90:41]
Joe Rogan
I tried to talk you out of that job for years. I was like, dude, you're wasting money being there. I know you think it's a good job, but you're wasting money. But the point is, yeah, you were working out so much while you had a full time job. I mean, most people just don't have that kind of willpower. And when someone does, it's like super inspirational to everybody else. We feed off each other. Humans feed off of each other. When I see a guy like Goggins or I watch a Hagler video of him training, it's just fuel, man. It's just, it just, to me, it just pumps my blood up. I want to go hit the bag, man. I want to go work out like right now. Like I see that and, but that's, I've always used that as fuel, as a positive. Always read autobiographies about fighters and watched videos and, and, and watched him talk. And just to me it's always like been. It's like wood, just throw it on the fire. It's more fuel. It's like, whoo. Without. I mean. But this is the craziest thing about Goggins. Like he ain't got nobody doing that for him. It's all in his own up head.
- [91:49]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, there, there's another clip where this guy, they're doing, you know, they do these big events, speaking events. And so he was sitting there and the guys, the guy's like interviewing him. He's like, so you, you, you run for hours and hours, don't you? And he just look, he again looks at him just like he's got masters this delivery. But he just looks at him, he's just like out, you know, something like hours, days. He runs for days and days. So not hours. What are you talking about? Hours, days?
- [92:18]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. What did he do? Like 99, 100 miles. Like how many 100 milers has he done in his life?
- [92:25]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, he had the world record. He did, did eight 100 mile races or like eight consecutive weekends. So it was something like that. Which normally, you know, you do 100 miles, you're banged up for a while. I would imagine 100 miles is a lot. So he's doing them. I Think it was eight consecutive weekends.
- [92:46]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Most people can't even do eight marathons.
- [92:49]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, God, dude. Eight marathons. Yeah.
- [92:52]
Joe Rogan
Did you ever see Eddie if.
- [92:54]
Cameron Haynes
No.
- [92:54]
Joe Rogan
Or excuse me. Eddie Izzard.
- [92:56]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [92:57]
Joe Rogan
Shout out to Eddie. Eddie Izzard, the comedian from the UK who likes to wear women's clothes. He did this thing in sometime in the 2000s where he ran a marathon every day, and he had no training. He wasn't in shape at all. He just did it through sheer will.
- [93:18]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [93:18]
Joe Rogan
And he. I think he did it, like, 29 days in a row. Like, something insane like that. Twice. He did it twice. Okay. He's completed 43 marathons in 51 days. That's in 2009.
- [93:30]
Cameron Haynes
And then.
- [93:31]
Joe Rogan
Oh, it says she. See this thing about calling him she is. He doesn't call himself she. He still refers to himself as. As Eddie.
- [93:39]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [93:39]
Joe Rogan
And he says, I'm a he. And I like ladies. I don't know why they're saying she unless he's changed things since. Or she's changed or whatever. Either way, respect. Super cool person, too. Yeah. Done two podcasts with him. Her, the them, whatever the fuck it is. I love him to death. But one of them while he was on a treadmill. Like, really? Yeah. He was a he at the time, so I was allowed to say he at the time.
- [94:05]
Cameron Haynes
I'm glad we're getting this all worked out, because when I want to tell these stories, I got to figure out when he was he and she.
- [94:12]
Joe Rogan
And I think I did his podcast, and he was doing podcasts while he was on a treadmill, and it was running, like, hundreds of miles. It's like, you know, but just through force of will. Completed. Oh, it's her latest endurance. Look at that. Eddie Izzard completes her late. Like, what are we doing this time? 32 marathons in 31 days.
- [94:34]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [94:34]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [94:35]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, it's.
- [94:38]
Joe Rogan
It's so kooky.
- [94:40]
Cameron Haynes
It is.
- [94:41]
Joe Rogan
Well, but, I mean, that's really impressive, too, because this is a person that's not in shape. Like, when they started doing it, when he started doing the first marathon, when he ran all around the UK and ran, like, a marathon a day. There's a documentary about it, and the documentary is pretty incredible because he's not in shape at all, and he's just breaking himself down, and his feet are falling apart. Like, it's all. Like, the bottom of his feet are just raw. It's just blood and tissues, and they've got gauze wrapped in between the toes. It's oozing I mean they're just destroyed. I bet one day you had to take a day off because it was that bad.
- [95:17]
Cameron Haynes
You think about it. Because that was one of the questions. I did this podcast about this Cocodona race coming up and they said, you know, how many steps do you think it'll take to finish the race? So. And that, that just reminds me of sofas. 250 miles. It's my guess was it's generally about 2,000 steps a mile. So 500,000 steps. But point is, is 500,000 steps on your feet that's going to cause some damage.
- [95:43]
Joe Rogan
Oh yeah.
- [95:44]
Cameron Haynes
You know what I mean? So part of this training for big multi day ultras is time on feet. Like I, because I was injured, I, I couldn't train like I normally train. So I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna go out and spend time on my feet. And so I did last week 150 miles, which was 22 miles a day. But I couldn't run because I've been injured. So it was like I was power hiking and kind of of a slow run. So it took forever. But I'm just like time on my feet. So I was out there to do that. I was 37 hours of training.
- [96:18]
Joe Rogan
So your foot must be getting worse if that's the case.
- [96:20]
Cameron Haynes
That was my hamstring.
- [96:22]
Joe Rogan
Oh yeah.
- [96:23]
Cameron Haynes
So my, because I was in like the best shape I've ever been in, was supposed to, I was going to go to Boston to get my best marathon time. Everything was tracking good. Me and True were training, running hard. He was just like on one of his videos, he's like, my goal is to get in the 2:30s for the marathon for him. And he's like, but actually I think that should be your goal because I can't keep up with you. I was running so good and then tweak the hamstring. So now if I try to open up and run like a six minute mile, it kind of re aggravates it. So I've been trying to be patient, not push it. But I needed time on my feet was my point. Because just as Eddie illustrated in that if you're, if your feet aren't toughened up, that's, that's your contact point and.
- [97:07]
Joe Rogan
That'S why you run with no socks on.
- [97:08]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, right, right.
- [97:09]
Joe Rogan
You want them to get.
- [97:11]
Cameron Haynes
But still it's still, it's like that so many steps on your body. So there's, there's joints like there's this great documentary that just came out out on last year's Cocodona 250. And it's called the Chase because they, they went with four, like four guys.
- [97:27]
Joe Rogan
It's already at the chase. Yeah, yeah.
- [97:29]
Cameron Haynes
And it's really good. But the four guys they follow here, brother.
- [97:35]
Joe Rogan
Looks like hell.
- [97:36]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [97:36]
Joe Rogan
All those people in hell together.
- [97:38]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. So that's, that's, yeah. Photographer there. That's Mike McKnight right there. All these legends of two hundreds.
- [97:49]
Joe Rogan
I saw someone climbing a mountain here.
- [97:51]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [97:52]
Joe Rogan
What is that? Is that part of it? Shut the up. Is that part of it?
- [97:56]
Cameron Haynes
That's in the same country, but that's just one of the key runners. That's what he does during his runs.
- [98:01]
Joe Rogan
What?
- [98:02]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [98:03]
Joe Rogan
During his runs.
- [98:04]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [98:05]
Joe Rogan
Take a little break.
- [98:06]
Cameron Haynes
He climbed. He climbed all the way. He climbs in the, in the film. He climbs this whole thing to the top.
- [98:12]
Joe Rogan
Oh my God. And there's people that are different.
- [98:15]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. They. But the point is, is like that's the guy who is climbing right there.
- [98:20]
Joe Rogan
What an animal.
- [98:21]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. These guys are just studs. But the, the. But here's the thing. So they had these guys. Jeff Browning right there. Legend. He's won like 300 mile races. That's Joe Stringbean McConaughey.
- [98:33]
Joe Rogan
What's the guy's name that climbs?
- [98:35]
Cameron Haynes
That's Michael versus VerStage is his name. I think it'll probably show. There's. There's McKnight, so. It'll show him. Coming up. Right there. He is, that guy.
- [98:44]
Joe Rogan
Oh, he looks like a psycho.
- [98:45]
Cameron Haynes
No, he's just, he just. That's, that's.
- [98:49]
Joe Rogan
He's got dead eyes.
- [98:50]
Cameron Haynes
To me that's ultra running like the dirt bag. Ultra runner. That's what I love about it.
- [98:55]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [98:56]
Cameron Haynes
I love guys like that. This guy is like. I don't know if he's Amish or whatever. He's from Ohio. Doesn't he live around mountains? Just a freak. So you get these, these people out there to race this 250 miles, you don't know what the hell's going to happen. Every person they just showed there did not win.
- [99:13]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [99:14]
Cameron Haynes
A guy who they didn't show won because so much crazy things can happen to your body and you cannot predict.
- [99:25]
Joe Rogan
Who'S 17 year old just finished 12th. That's crazy. That's crazy.
- [99:31]
Cameron Haynes
I didn't know that. That's impressive.
- [99:35]
Joe Rogan
That's impressive. That kind of will for a 17 year old.
- [99:38]
Cameron Haynes
Sure.
- [99:39]
Joe Rogan
Oh my God. That kid's gonna be unstoppable. See, that goes to show you like there are hard people out there still Even in these, these soft ass times.
- [99:47]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [99:48]
Joe Rogan
There's hard people out there.
- [99:49]
Cameron Haynes
There is.
- [99:50]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [99:50]
Cameron Haynes
Like that. I think they showed they'd done the through high hike on the Arizona trail as a family. That kid who'd done it and that was 800 miles is the Arizona trail. So a through hike is basically you're just on the trail just as long as it takes. But that makes you tough every day on your feet. That, that's the thing. It's like in that movie. These guys are just battling back and forth, passing each other, keeping track. Because you have the GPS tracker. You remember when me and Courtney did Moab? So people get addicted, this tracking.
- [100:20]
Joe Rogan
Right, right.
- [100:21]
Cameron Haynes
You know my. I, I know my brother just did. So like a month ago or maybe three weeks ago, it was called the Arizona Monster 300. A 300 mile race. My brother just got second.
- [100:34]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [100:34]
Cameron Haynes
I was just tracking non stop.
- [100:37]
Joe Rogan
That's incredible. 300 mile race and he got second. How much did the guy who won beat him by two hours. Jesus Christ.
- [100:46]
Cameron Haynes
So he guy who won got 86 hours, Taylor got 88.
- [100:51]
Joe Rogan
That's so nuts. 88 hours is so crazy.
- [100:56]
Cameron Haynes
Slept for four.
- [100:57]
Joe Rogan
That is so how long did it take him to recover?
- [101:00]
Cameron Haynes
Three and a half days. I mean, probably. I'm sure he's not recovered ever. It's been a few weeks. I mean, so nuts. What I've said before is I like those races. I mean, exercising is good. That's good for you. Those not good. Those aren't making you live longer?
- [101:19]
Joe Rogan
No.
- [101:19]
Cameron Haynes
Pushing your body that hard.
- [101:20]
Joe Rogan
No, it can't. I mean it's, it's like you're on death's door.
- [101:24]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [101:24]
Joe Rogan
I mean, you can only run for so long before eventually everything just breaks.
- [101:28]
Cameron Haynes
The, the cool part is Courtney's doing this one.
- [101:31]
Joe Rogan
Oh, nice.
- [101:31]
Cameron Haynes
She's back to the 200s.
- [101:33]
Joe Rogan
She's a animal, dude.
- [101:34]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [101:35]
Joe Rogan
You'd never guess. Eats candy, all silly, easy to talk to, real fun. But somewhere in that brain there's some darkness I don't know she can call upon.
- [101:44]
Cameron Haynes
I've been trying to find it. You know, she came out. We, we did. I just released it on my YouTube. But we did three hours or no, three days. We did 100 miles.
- [101:54]
Joe Rogan
She's eating McDonald's french fries.
- [101:56]
Cameron Haynes
So this is a. I know. I had trace bring us McDonald's because we, we stayed at Pisgah for 12 hours and did 15 summits. 50 miles, just up and down.
- [102:06]
Joe Rogan
Look at it. Just chilling, eating fries. She looks like an Instagram influencer.
- [102:10]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [102:10]
Joe Rogan
You know she doesn't look like some psychopath that can run that far.
- [102:14]
Cameron Haynes
No. So, yeah, we did this. Three days, 100 miles, and we did.
- [102:19]
Joe Rogan
This is a McDonald's commercial. Basically your fries stuffed in your pockets. I know the perfect fuel seed oils for runners.
- [102:26]
Cameron Haynes
We need. You need calories and salt. There's my brother right there, Taylor. That's who got third.
- [102:32]
Joe Rogan
Incredible.
- [102:32]
Cameron Haynes
So this is his race. But yeah, the point is, is like we went. So three days and I'm, you know, this 41 miles down this day, you get to the last day and I'm beat up, dude. She never, never got tired. And I'm like, she can do her run, her little run at this like a 9 minute mile pace forever.
- [102:59]
Joe Rogan
That's so crazy.
- [103:00]
Cameron Haynes
And I just don't. That's where I'm like, this willpower. How does it work?
- [103:05]
Joe Rogan
Well, she famously went blind.
- [103:07]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [103:08]
Joe Rogan
And kept running and fell and cracked her head and got up and kept running and won and won. Yeah. She's a maniac. But it's like, it's not like this angry goggins, like, who's gonna carry the boats? Like a different kind of mental strength. She's got her own thing, her own formula.
- [103:25]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. I don't know if I told you this, but. So I was talking to her about when you get in these ultra races. I mean, it's, it's pain is what mostly stops you. Right. It just hurts so bad to run. So I said, she talks about the pain cave. Like she. So she goes into the pain cave and that's, you know, she welcomes it. She's not shying away from the pain. And I said, I go, okay, so. And what do you mean? You're just like embracing the pain? She's like, no, I'm. I'm working in there. And so she's explaining, she's got this chisel and she's hitting the chisel with a hammer. And I said, I said, so you're not thinking about running? She's like, no, she's. I'm thinking about hitting the chisel and she goes, rocks falling down and piling up. I said, so that you're thinking about that not running? She's not, not running at all. She's thinking about working. So she, she makes her brain think about making this cave bigger. And I'm like, whoa. So I said, is there like furniture and in the cave? She's like, no.
- [104:31]
Joe Rogan
I said, plato's cave.
- [104:32]
Cameron Haynes
I said, but is it. I said, is it the same cave every time, every race? She says, yeah. And I go, but I said, do you have like an extra, like a wing for one specific race? Is. Is you work on this wing of the cave? She's like, yeah, sometimes. So she's in this cave thinking about chiseling rock, making the cave larger. Making the cave larger, and. And just. And just expanding the pain cave. And I was just like, I was blown away. And she goes, I feel like I need to stop talking about this because the more I talk, the crazier I see.
- [105:12]
Joe Rogan
Well, I kind of think you have to be crazy to be great.
- [105:15]
Cameron Haynes
Yes.
- [105:16]
Joe Rogan
I don't think it comes to a normal person. I don't. I think there's got to be something going on. I mean, for her, it's the pain cave, you know?
- [105:23]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [105:23]
Joe Rogan
For Goggins, it's who's going to carry the boats? You don't know me, son. Like, whatever it is, like, you got to be crazy. And you have to decide, like, if you want to be Courtney In a 200 mile race, you got to decide for years. For years. You have to chase that. Go. You're not going to do it tomorrow. It's like, it's not going to happen. Like, you're gonna have to build up for years, right, to be able to do that.
- [105:46]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [105:46]
Joe Rogan
And she's going to be building up along the way, too. And so you probably never catch her.
- [105:50]
Cameron Haynes
I don't know. She looks, you know, she's 40 now. Looks like better than she's ever looked as far as, like, performance, you know, she's. I think she's done one race this year, won it, broke the course record, and now she's got this one coming up. So I don't know when she won the Moab.
- [106:08]
Joe Rogan
She won the Moab 240, right?
- [106:09]
Cameron Haynes
240. Yeah.
- [106:10]
Joe Rogan
How far away was she from the second place person?
- [106:13]
Cameron Haynes
It's like eight or ten hours. And I asked her about that too, because. Because even that. So if. If you said, oh, you got. You're up by hours.
- [106:25]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [106:25]
Cameron Haynes
You just kind of.
- [106:26]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [106:27]
Cameron Haynes
She pushed the whole time. So that's what I. That's what I. I am fascinated and I just want to know why.
- [106:34]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [106:35]
Cameron Haynes
How.
- [106:36]
Joe Rogan
What did she say?
- [106:38]
Cameron Haynes
She just wants to do the best she can. She just wants to see what she said. She's never racing anybody else. It's always, just how hard could she push herself?
- [106:47]
Joe Rogan
That's interesting because that kind of eliminates the ego.
- [106:51]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [106:52]
Joe Rogan
Because instead of battling with your ego, you're just trying to do your best all the time. Your best. You're not racing against anybody else. You're just trying to do your best.
- [107:01]
Cameron Haynes
A lot of people say that. That.
- [107:02]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [107:03]
Cameron Haynes
A lot of people say that. I think she truly believes it.
- [107:06]
Joe Rogan
Right. I believe it. She believes it, too. And if you can just compete against yourself, like, again, back to Goggins. He's not doing it for anything.
- [107:15]
Cameron Haynes
Right.
- [107:15]
Joe Rogan
There's not a thing that he's got.
- [107:17]
Cameron Haynes
No race coming up. No. A lot of people have to have a goal to work towards.
- [107:21]
Joe Rogan
He told me he's downloading information.
- [107:24]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. What is. I don't know what that means.
- [107:25]
Joe Rogan
That's his own pain cave.
- [107:27]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [107:27]
Joe Rogan
He's downloading knowledge.
- [107:30]
Cameron Haynes
So he's still trying to get better is what it sounds like to me.
- [107:34]
Joe Rogan
He's trying to figure out, like, he's developing his mind to be this unstoppable force, which it clearly is. It's as close to an unstoppable force as I've ever seen, especially when you consider the damage. If you go back to that Izzy video, let's look at his stride. Because here's the thing about Goggins. One of the things you see in his stride is if you look at his knees, he's got giant scars up both of his knees. His knees are way more fucked up than mine. And I don't run because my knees are fucked up.
- [108:04]
Cameron Haynes
You did a 5K?
- [108:05]
Joe Rogan
I did once. Trading at all. But the. The scars are extraordinary. And we see him in real life, it's even scarier. And his form is weird. But if you go to the YouTube video. Freestyle bender.
- [108:23]
Cameron Haynes
Right?
- [108:24]
Joe Rogan
YouTube. Okay. Izzy's got it. Izzy put the whole thing up. And when you see him running, I mean, his pace is great, but it's weird, like, the way he's running because his knees are destroyed.
- [108:37]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. And I think that that just kind of evolved or devolved, whatever. You want to say it over time. He's just doing what he has to do. You know what I mean?
- [108:45]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. If you scoot your head a little bit, this is in the beginning. So here it is, him running.
- [108:49]
Cameron Haynes
There's a profile that.
- [108:50]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, there's a sideways profile, but even then, it looks kind of odd. Like, Izzy looks sort of loose and relaxed. His legs straighten out. David's legs never straighten out. They always have a bend to them at every step. You know, like. Like when you see him sideways, you really get a chance to see it.
- [109:09]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [109:09]
Joe Rogan
There's one part where you see him. Right. There it is. There it is right there. Right. So look. See how he's kind of that's odd, right? Like you're a runner. You tell me. That's kind of odd, right?
- [109:20]
Cameron Haynes
Well, I just don't know. He might be just trying to stay with Izzy because Izzy's going at a slower pace, which maybe if he was, like, maybe if David was opened up, it'd be more extended. I'm not sure. It's hard to say because Izzy's obviously struggling there.
- [109:34]
Joe Rogan
And also they are going uphill when this is happening.
- [109:37]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. So I think David, it could be tweaking his form a little bit, but.
- [109:43]
Joe Rogan
I mean, he must be in agony. There's no way he's not in agony if you know the extent of the damage that he has on his knees. And if you've seen the X rays we've showed him on the podcast before with all the screws, and they saw the top of his.
- [109:56]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [109:57]
Joe Rogan
Femur off or his tibia off and shifted it to make it flat again. Like what?
- [110:03]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, he. He showed me some crazy photos too, of like his body reacting just insanely to some of what he's been putting it through.
- [110:12]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, of course.
- [110:13]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [110:14]
Joe Rogan
Well, he has to stretch. He told me he stretches for two and a half hours every night.
- [110:17]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [110:17]
Joe Rogan
Just stretches. And that's changed a lot for him, too.
- [110:20]
Cameron Haynes
When you look at him and Izzy running. I mean, David's 50. They don't look that much different as.
- [110:27]
Joe Rogan
Far as, like, physically looks insane.
- [110:29]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [110:30]
Joe Rogan
And again, he's not breathing heavy at all. And that was one of multiple workouts he does in a day.
- [110:36]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [110:36]
Joe Rogan
But it would break most human beings.
- [110:38]
Cameron Haynes
I think Izzy posted that. That was. David does three. Three of those workouts a day.
- [110:44]
Joe Rogan
That's so crazy.
- [110:45]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [110:46]
Joe Rogan
And he keeps going.
- [110:47]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [110:47]
Joe Rogan
By himself.
- [110:48]
Cameron Haynes
That's why I love him.
- [110:49]
Joe Rogan
All alone. Yeah. There's real boogeyman out there. Right. And with David, this is all for his own personal growth, or what he likes to call downloading knowledge. Whatever he's doing, that's for him. It's his own battle that he does. But just to know that there's a guy like that out there, it pushes everybody else too. Like David, existing in this soft ass world that we live in today raises the bar for literally everyone on earth. That's everyone who hears about him knows that there's a standard above in which they have ever pushed themselves right above and beyond. And that's Marvin Hagler and that's Rocky Marciano. There's this. People like this Khabib. There's champions.
- [111:35]
Cameron Haynes
And what people do is they cultivate their own little World without those people.
- [111:40]
Joe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- [111:41]
Cameron Haynes
They're like, yeah, I don't know if I've heard you. I think you, like, you don't like knowing about certain men. Don't like knowing that there's people like that out there.
- [111:50]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [111:50]
Cameron Haynes
Because then it's just like they don't.
- [111:52]
Joe Rogan
Like, they don't like being held to a standard that they can't match. Like, they don't like being confronted by, oh, he's cheating. Oh, he's doing this. He's probably on peptides. There's some excuse. There's not a peptide in the world that makes you work out six hours a day. It doesn't exist.
- [112:08]
Cameron Haynes
No, it doesn't exist. Yeah, I, I think that, I mean.
- [112:13]
Joe Rogan
You have to be a crazy person and you have to be willing to get yourself into that place, that crazy place.
- [112:19]
Cameron Haynes
What was super cool is when True was going after the pull ups, Goggins was checking in and he was just like, all in. Like, you gotta, okay, tell him to do this. Tell him to do this. He's like, okay, write this down. Call me back. I mean, he was so into it.
- [112:33]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. He's a man. He's the man.
- [112:36]
Cameron Haynes
Love him.
- [112:36]
Joe Rogan
I love him to death. And I think he does a great service to the world. Even though he's doing it all in silence, he's doing it all alone.
- [112:44]
Cameron Haynes
You get glimpses of it.
- [112:45]
Joe Rogan
You get enough to know. And especially that video where you see him with Izzy, like, oh, this is real. This isn't a mythical person, you know, this isn't the Gray man. This is a real human being. Like, holy man. Like, there's people out there that are just working harder than everybody else and they'll, they're gonna keep doing it.
- [113:06]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [113:06]
Joe Rogan
And that's their grind, you know? And those people are super valuable. Those people are so valuable. The Marvin Haglers of the world, the Rocky Marshall Marciano's, the world. Like, those are very, very valuable people.
- [113:19]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [113:19]
Joe Rogan
Because they change everybody's perspective of like. Like what, what's possible, what to strive for and what it takes. Like, do you really want to be a champion? Why? Because you just want to be cool. You want to be the coolest guy on the block. Like that you're not going to win. You're going to find some psychopath who just lives it. It's. It's their whole life. And if it's not your whole life, get out. Get out.
- [113:41]
Cameron Haynes
It's. There's another quote that I love, something like, there's somebody out there training every day and when you meet, they will win.
- [113:52]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [113:52]
Cameron Haynes
I mean, that's just a fact. Most people don't want to think about those type of people. They, like, think that they're. They're like, oh, yeah, I'm working my ass off. I'm doing more than anybody. They're ignoring a few people.
- [114:06]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, you don't work more than anybody. That's not real. Yeah, there's no way you do. There's one guy, he lives in Vegas. He's my friend. I'll tell you, I'll introduce you to him. And you just get nervous just being around him.
- [114:18]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, he's.
- [114:20]
Joe Rogan
He's on a different level.
- [114:21]
Cameron Haynes
He's the man.
- [114:22]
Joe Rogan
And that level that he's on, like, this thing that he's doing, it's good for all of us. It just. People don't like it because they feel weak. Like, I. I've compare myself to him, like, Jesus Christ. I don't have that kind of will. But if I was the type of person that all I was was my hard work and my will, I would look at him and I would feel inferior. And people do not like that. And there's a lot of ass men out there that don't like it when guys are working harder than them and they try to bring those people down. And David takes all those people and then he writes all the. That they said down, and then he records it and listens while he's running.
- [115:01]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [115:02]
Joe Rogan
Like he's.
- [115:03]
Cameron Haynes
He's one of one.
- [115:04]
Joe Rogan
Well, you better shut the up. You're just gonna make a meaner. Yeah, he's gonna make him crazy.
- [115:08]
Cameron Haynes
I love that. What's that? The challenge nowadays is who's real and who isn't.
- [115:16]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [115:17]
Cameron Haynes
Because there's people that say things just like David says, but they're not really.
- [115:21]
Joe Rogan
Doing it that well. They're not doing it that way.
- [115:23]
Cameron Haynes
They're not him.
- [115:24]
Joe Rogan
No, they're not him.
- [115:25]
Cameron Haynes
It's an act. It gives them this social currency in today's world. So that's the hard part is like, who's. Who's real, who isn't?
- [115:34]
Joe Rogan
And they might be working harder than most people.
- [115:37]
Cameron Haynes
Not everybody, even.
- [115:39]
Joe Rogan
Not everybody. No. There's people out there that are just. And you can't. You know, you can't. Because there's not only so many hours in a day and there's only so much time you can do.
- [115:48]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [115:48]
Joe Rogan
You know, I've never done anything like that before. But what I did do when we had that sober October challenge with Tom and Burton, Ari, is I Went kind of crazy.
- [116:00]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [116:01]
Joe Rogan
And lost my mind. My mind. I was doing seven hours of cardio a day because I wanted Bert Kreischer to die because Bert really thought he was gonna win. So I watched John Wick like 50 times in a row.
- [116:10]
Cameron Haynes
Did you do seven a day?
- [116:12]
Joe Rogan
Oh, yeah. I was doing seven hours a day. Yeah, I was. I was trying to kill him. I was literally trying to kill him. I was running hills.
- [116:18]
Cameron Haynes
What if he would have died?
- [116:19]
Joe Rogan
Then he dies. I was like, he's talking. He was talking. He was like, that's Bert. Like, Bert will tell you he can do the splits. I'm like, okay, do the splits?
- [116:28]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [116:28]
Joe Rogan
He can't do the splits. Like, he'll tell you he could beat you in push ups. Okay, he can't beat you in pushups. But he'll always say it, which is fine. But there was something about that competition where we were all kind of going crazy. We all decided to never do that again because at the end of the month, it was bad for your family, bad for your kids. Never saw me. I was like, daddy's screaming in the gym all day. I set off the fire alarm because I sweat so much in the gym that the fire alarm went off.
- [116:55]
Cameron Haynes
That's pushing it.
- [116:56]
Joe Rogan
Puddles around me. Puddles, Puddles. I was just drinking water and soda. I was drinking like, like, like cream sodas because I want. I needed sugar.
- [117:07]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [117:07]
Joe Rogan
I just felt that's what I wanted. I wanted soda.
- [117:10]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [117:10]
Joe Rogan
I was drinking like sugary sodas and just running like a maniac. And at the end of it, I was like, okay, I can't do. That's a part of my brain I don't like. That part was like the part that made me very good at fighting. And it like ignited again and I was like, woo. It's still in there.
- [117:27]
Cameron Haynes
Like, Jesus, it's been a while. And it's still there.
- [117:30]
Joe Rogan
It's been a while. It kind of got stronger. It was like more. You like, like wanted to stay back, you know, it's like you want to start doing other things. You want to start running and doing races and start like. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. You're busy.
- [117:44]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [117:44]
Joe Rogan
Let's not get crazy.
- [117:46]
Cameron Haynes
Do you think it's. Do you think it's immeasurable that have changed things? Like, because. Sure, because our watches tell us everything.
- [117:55]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [117:56]
Cameron Haynes
So you get those numbers. You want those numbers to go up?
- [117:59]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, they say that that's a thing like with like those Fitbits and all these different wearables, like people Say that they, they're. People are getting addicted to those the same way they're getting addicted to social media. So we were doing everything through the My Zones chest strap. It's a heart rate monitor. And it was basically giving you a certain amount of points for having your heart rate above like 140 and then even more points if it gets above like 180, like when you're in the red. And so you would just try to clock as many points as you could.
- [118:31]
Cameron Haynes
For a day and had to. So you had to push hard to get those points.
- [118:35]
Joe Rogan
Exactly. Saying, yeah, you have to be, you know, you're in the yellow like the 140s for hours and hours.
- [118:42]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. Here's what, like my heart rate is so low. If me and True going on a run. We did a 20 mile run here a few months ago. His was in the 20 mile run. We ran like six 18s. His was 157 and mine was 139 or 140.
- [118:57]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [118:58]
Cameron Haynes
So I have a hard time getting my heart high.
- [119:01]
Joe Rogan
That's crazy. Well, that's insane fitness. I'd like to see what David's is.
- [119:06]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [119:07]
Joe Rogan
Like, but he ain't wearing no heart rate monitor.
- [119:10]
Cameron Haynes
No, that's not his style. But yeah. So when you talked about that your heart rate had to be high to get these points. I'd be like, I'd be.
- [119:17]
Joe Rogan
Well, Brigham says that he competes with Tim Kennedy and he's like, Tim Kenny doesn't even know I'm competing with him. Because he can find. Because Tim Kennedy's wearable numbers are posted on the my zones thing. Like, that's the thing about my zones that was interesting is like you could compete with. And even when we were doing sober October and we were like torturing ourselves, we still weren't in the top 10 in the country. Yeah. There were still people out there for no reason other than being a psycho. People you've never heard of in Nebraska somewhere or wherever that are working harder than us.
- [119:48]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [119:49]
Joe Rogan
And they're not even competing for anything. This is just what they do. And they're putting in crazier numbers than we were and they probably do it every month. Yeah, that's nuts.
- [119:58]
Cameron Haynes
That is nuts.
- [119:59]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. So Tim Kennedy is one of those. He's like, he's always like posting these crazy numbers and Brigham tries to compete with him and like when he finds Tim's numbers, like that's why he spends like two hours a day and doing Muay Thai. He's competing with these numbers.
- [120:13]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, I see. Yeah. See, Strava is sort of like that. Runners use Strava. I'm not on it. But that, that gets posted publicly so everybody can see the pace, the climb, the hours.
- [120:26]
Joe Rogan
Well, if you're competitive, it's great for everybody because it's just raises that bar. Imagine if you could see Rocky Marciano Strava numbers in 1951. People like, what the.
- [120:36]
Cameron Haynes
No, I would love that.
- [120:37]
Joe Rogan
Everybody else would be like, well, that was the thing with the Hagler and Mugabe fight. Like, Marvin broke him. He couldn't keep up with Marvin. Marvin kept hitting him, ripping to the body, slowly but surely breaking him down. But his endurance was just so strong at the end. Mugabe was just like a. He was wobbly. Like, you see when guys like when you see it in a fight in mma, you see it a lot. Their technique doesn't look crisp anymore. Their head's moving too much. Their. Their core's not stable. They're constantly recorrecting. They're not like rock. When the beginning of the fight, everybody is rock solid.
- [121:12]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [121:12]
Joe Rogan
Everybody's move. In the end, there's like a laxity to the movement. You see the fatigue set in. There's like these telltale things and Marvin didn't have that. That there was no, there's no laxity. It's like those storms coming like, you.
- [121:26]
Cameron Haynes
Know, across from somebody like that.
- [121:28]
Joe Rogan
Terrifying.
- [121:28]
Cameron Haynes
Must just be the worst.
- [121:30]
Joe Rogan
They never get tired.
- [121:31]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [121:31]
Joe Rogan
There's a famous moment in when Khabib fought Edson Barboza where Edson has this thousand yard stare because Khabib took him down again and he's beating him up. And you realize, like, Edson's like, this is never gonna end.
- [121:45]
Cameron Haynes
I cannot get out of this.
- [121:46]
Joe Rogan
I'm never gonna. I'm never gonna get this guy off me.
- [121:48]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [121:49]
Joe Rogan
I can't stop him from taking me down. And he's just, just mauling me. Every time he takes me down, he's just punching my face in. And that's how Connor felt when he was fighting Khabib too. At the end. He's just. Just like tapped. Like it. It's over.
- [122:03]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. I mean, it's got that fatigue. Makes cowards of us all.
- [122:09]
Joe Rogan
True.
- [122:10]
Cameron Haynes
It's got to be the most accurate quote of all time.
- [122:12]
Joe Rogan
And the only way to develop that kind of endurance is through inside. Insane work. Insane work. Just insane volume and then constant consistency. Constant volume. Discipline, intensity. Never ending. Go, go, go, go. Where your body just has to keep up.
- [122:33]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [122:33]
Joe Rogan
You know, or it doesn't. And it breaks, and then eventually you get like Kane Velasquez towards the end of his career, his shoulders were getting up, his knee was up, his back was up. After a while, he was too mentally tough for his own physical form. His body just couldn't tolerate it anymore.
- [122:51]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, I wonder what the limit is nowadays, because we talk about back then and we talk about how it's changed because you said something, talking about, I think Sonny Liston talking about when he was 38. That was different. 38 than now.
- [123:06]
Joe Rogan
Joe Lewis. Yeah, Or Joe.
- [123:08]
Cameron Haynes
Okay, so nowadays, what. What is. What are people capable of? Because when you talk about the nutrition, the science, the. You know, it's. Who knows? Because you said. You said something like, your body will break if you push this a certain amount or.
- [123:27]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, I think there's a difference between endurance activities and combat sports. And there's something about combat sports that. That it's fractions of a second you miss. So there's only been a very few fighters that fight at an elite level deep into their 40s. The best example is Bernard Hopkins. Bernard Hopkins fought at a world championship level when he was 48, 49 years old. He was different because he was, first of all, very intelligent. Never got out of shape, never cheated on his diet, never partied, never drank, never smoked, never got fat, always trained, always. Always in shape. And also very intelligent with his boxing. Was super defensively responsible. Never. He didn't fight like Hagler. We just weighed himself into the fire, tried to break guys. Bernard was using, like, clever boxing and really good defense. Defense was number one. You didn't have to like his fights, you know, like some of them. In the beginning, people thought it was boring because he would hold on to guys, guys, and he wouldn't let the guys hit him. Then he. But. But he won fights, and he didn't take a lot of damage, and so he was able to do it deep in their 40s. But most people, by the time you're 37, that's usually when the wheels start to fall off. If you're natural. If you're natural. The thing about today is with boxing, especially in the off season, no one can stop you from doing peptides and growth hormone and testosterone replacement. No one can stop you. As long as you're not getting Nevada tested. And that usually, generally they do that during camp. And as long as you're not getting randomly tested, like USADA used to do with the ufc, where they just show up at your door if you just get weighed in. And then the. The state Athletic commission Drug test you like in Nevada. That's a intelligence test.
- [125:21]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. Right.
- [125:22]
Joe Rogan
You know, that's, there's, that's how certain guys were able to like, maintain their power going up in weight class, multiple divisions, like, for sure. There's some Mexican supplements involved in that. For sure.
- [125:34]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [125:34]
Joe Rogan
And then that's different. So if you're doing peptides and hormone replacement and all that, then you're extending your athletic career deep, deep, deep into your 30s and maybe even into your 40s. But combat sports are just a different animal.
- [125:49]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [125:50]
Joe Rogan
It's different than just running. Like you're getting hit and like your ability to hit back is based on your ability to absorb punishment. And you can only. You only have so many times that ticket can get punched before your chin goes before, you know you can't take it anymore.
- [126:06]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [126:07]
Joe Rogan
So it's like, for fighters, it's very rare that a guy can perform at the highest level, like in the late 30s. And Randy Couture, he did it. He didn't even start his career until I think he was 34 or 35. Yeah. He's an MMA fighter.
- [126:22]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. No, and he went late.
- [126:23]
Joe Rogan
Beat Tim Sylvia in his 40s.
- [126:25]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, yeah. So what's your, what's your training like nowadays? Because you're shredded.
- [126:31]
Joe Rogan
I'm doing a lot of. A lot of kettlebells still. Always, you know, I'm doing that regularly. I'm doing a lot of rucking too. Getting ready for elk season. I've been doing a lot of walk hills. There's a big hill in my yard that I like to walk to with farmers carries and shit.
- [126:50]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. Like down.
- [126:51]
Joe Rogan
This is that Tom Havilland guy that I've been following a lot from Australia. And I'm like, one of the things that he does, like he carries stuff and what's all carry heavy and walk around the gym with it.
- [127:01]
Cameron Haynes
There you go.
- [127:02]
Joe Rogan
I think there's something to that, man. Really? Like, for overall strength.
- [127:05]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [127:06]
Joe Rogan
But I've been doing, you know, staying with a lot of the body weight stuff that I do. I do a lot of that stuff with a weighted vest, too. A lot of chin ups and dips and pull ups and. Ls l l pull ups. You know, when you do like, you hold legs out.
- [127:21]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, yeah.
- [127:21]
Joe Rogan
I'm doing a lot of those leg lifts too, where you're hanging and just with a straight body and then lift your legs, you know, hinge at the hips, lift your toes all the way up to the top of the bar and then slowly drop them down and up and that. Doing a lot of that, too, and just mixing that up with bag work and all the different. Different things that I always like to do. But I've been super consistent. I've been real consistent.
- [127:45]
Cameron Haynes
Gonna be ready for elk season?
- [127:47]
Joe Rogan
Oh, yeah. I'm excited. I'm already excited.
- [127:49]
Cameron Haynes
How many elk hunts?
- [127:51]
Joe Rogan
I have two. One with you and one with Evan. You know, that's generally what I do. But I have a lot of opportunities around Texas for pig hunts.
- [128:01]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [128:01]
Joe Rogan
Which is nice because people are begging you to hunt pigs.
- [128:05]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. Because they're tearing up the land.
- [128:07]
Joe Rogan
They just get, you know, like, I got a text from a friend of mine the other day who's a movie producer, and he's like, please come to my ranch and kill some of these pigs. They're just everywhere.
- [128:17]
Cameron Haynes
Sounds fun.
- [128:17]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Because they're. They have to kill them. I mean, there's. Yeah, there's millions of them in Texas, and I'm not exaggerating.
- [128:25]
Cameron Haynes
Oh. And they're. Yeah. And they just reproduce so quickly.
- [128:28]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. So the good thing about that is it really gets you tightened up for elk season, you know, really get a lot of targets in, you know, bow shooting good. And get some good sausage. Yeah, Those shooting great, man.
- [128:40]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [128:40]
Joe Rogan
Oh, it's shooting great.
- [128:41]
Cameron Haynes
Archery country.
- [128:42]
Joe Rogan
Archery country.
- [128:43]
Cameron Haynes
What's going on there?
- [128:44]
Joe Rogan
You and me are part of the owners now.
- [128:46]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, yeah.
- [128:46]
Joe Rogan
Is that public now? It is now. Yeah. That's exciting, isn't it? Business partners, buddy.
- [128:52]
Cameron Haynes
I know. That's fun.
- [128:54]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. And Evan and. And then Tyler's the man, so.
- [128:57]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [128:57]
Joe Rogan
It's cool. Everybody together.
- [128:59]
Cameron Haynes
Pretty exciting.
- [129:00]
Joe Rogan
Really fun. Yeah. We got big plans to do something really cool with a place here in Austin. That's exciting.
- [129:07]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [129:08]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [129:08]
Cameron Haynes
A lot going on.
- [129:09]
Joe Rogan
It's a lot happening. Archery's so much fun.
- [129:12]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, the best. Dude, I just. I just got this set up. I just love shooting bows.
- [129:18]
Joe Rogan
You get another one?
- [129:19]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [129:19]
Joe Rogan
Why'd you get a different one?
- [129:20]
Cameron Haynes
Well, I had to get it in the Sitka.
- [129:22]
Joe Rogan
Oh, that's nice. Oh, that does look good.
- [129:25]
Cameron Haynes
So we had the origin that.
- [129:27]
Joe Rogan
Is this 80?
- [129:28]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. Yeah. It's a good looking bow.
- [129:31]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [129:32]
Cameron Haynes
But yeah, so some changes had to get in Sitka and we're. Yeah, we're rocking. Oh, yeah, I got a. So you said true ran in origin genes.
- [129:41]
Joe Rogan
No, he didn't.
- [129:42]
Cameron Haynes
Not true.
- [129:42]
Joe Rogan
I thought he did. Yeah, he's running in what. What's the company that he uses?
- [129:45]
Cameron Haynes
It's called Perfect Gene.
- [129:47]
Joe Rogan
Oh, I saw Jesse Michaels was repping those too in one of his YouTube videos.
- [129:53]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. Anyway, so origin liked you caught your call out though, so that's good.
- [129:58]
Joe Rogan
There it is.
- [129:59]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, there's a, there's a perfect gene.
- [130:01]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Well, there's a lot of people that make these great stretchy jeans. Now. Revtown makes a great pair. Barbell makes a great pair.
- [130:08]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [130:08]
Joe Rogan
But that. He's so jacked. For a guy who runs like that kind of time. Sub 3 hour marathon, nobody looks like him that's running those jacked. He is.
- [130:18]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. He's down to. He just did Eugene. So he set. He got his fastest time ever in Boston on Monday.
- [130:25]
Joe Rogan
Look at that. No one's jacked like that doing marathons. And then also gets the world record in pull ups.
- [130:32]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. And then he beat that time six days later in Eugene. That's so he did it so normally under three hours as fast. He did Eugene in 234.
- [130:45]
Joe Rogan
He came in seventh place in the Austin marathon and doesn't look anything like anybody else that's running. They all, everybody else looks like popsicle sticks. Yeah.
- [130:54]
Cameron Haynes
I mean part of it is like, like I told him when he was like that little guy, I said, hey, running's your thing. Just so you know, running is going to take you. And he hated. I used to because I made the kids run. So you make a kid do something, they're going to hate it. Right. So he kind of half assed effort all through high school, did pretty good. Was like all conferences of freshmen. But that was as hard as he ever kind of worked. He just wanted to lift. And he hated running. So I told him, I said, if you, if you work hard, you could run in college. I mean, for sure. And he's like, I don't want to run for four more years. He's like so, so done with running. So finally now, now he has this goal of running under a 230 marathon. So that's in the 220s, which is fast. And what's like a world record. Oh, down two hours.
- [131:48]
Joe Rogan
Two hours.
- [131:49]
Cameron Haynes
Right, right over like, like when did.
- [131:51]
Joe Rogan
That become the world record? Like what did it used to be like? What was like the world record in like 1990. He did it again. Truitt Haynes.
- [131:57]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [131:57]
Joe Rogan
That's a marathon 238.
- [131:58]
Cameron Haynes
Right. He just beat that on Sunday in Eugene.
- [132:03]
Joe Rogan
Nuts.
- [132:04]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. But yeah, so he.
- [132:06]
Joe Rogan
So his lowest time is what now?
- [132:08]
Cameron Haynes
2:34. But he'll get. And there's, there's Tanner right there. So Tanner did the Eugene marathon in the middle at the bottom. That's my oldest son.
- [132:16]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [132:16]
Cameron Haynes
With £35.
- [132:18]
Joe Rogan
What?
- [132:19]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. So he. And. And combat boots.
- [132:21]
Joe Rogan
Oh, my.
- [132:22]
Cameron Haynes
Him and his buddy Jake.
- [132:23]
Joe Rogan
That's so crazy.
- [132:24]
Cameron Haynes
They both wore these big packs and still ran it in. In the fours.
- [132:29]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [132:30]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. So that's.
- [132:31]
Joe Rogan
With combat boots. That's nuts.
- [132:33]
Cameron Haynes
So these guys. Truitt's wearing jeans and a. In a wife beater. True. Tanner's in a pack and hunting and combat.
- [132:40]
Joe Rogan
Hilarious. I wonder how like the normies view that. I wonder if that bothers them, all those dorks.
- [132:47]
Cameron Haynes
No, the elite runners hate people like Truitt. Like the. They call them like runfluencers because part of it is the elites work so hard. They're so good. And the following. It's hard to get a following when you're just a runner. So they see this guy and they're like, they can beat him. And because they're world class. Going to the Olympics. So true. It isn't there yet, but they're like this fucking Jack Dork is running and getting all this. There's articles on them everywhere. And so that's why it's. It's kind of the gatekeeping thing.
- [133:27]
Joe Rogan
Well, that's funny, because then the haters work for them because it's unbelievably impressive. It's impressive. I don't give a fuck what you say. Oh, I don't like these people. They're the run fluencer. Come on, man. The guy has the world Chin up record. He's obviously a freak.
- [133:40]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [133:40]
Joe Rogan
He's obviously doing something that's very, very extraordinary. And if you don't want that because you. For us, it's only for us.
- [133:50]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, yeah.
- [133:55]
Joe Rogan
You're supposed to be skinny off.
- [133:59]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, they. They don't. So true. It. And Eugene, guys, at 25th place. I mean, Eugene is like the running capital of the world, but the times.
- [134:07]
Joe Rogan
Have changed over the last hundred years. Interesting. So in 1908, it was 2 hours and 55 minutes. So in 1908, Truett would have the world record.
- [134:15]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [134:15]
Joe Rogan
In 1956, down to 2 hours and 17 minutes. Later, 2003, 2 hours and 4 minutes. And then 2018, 2 hours and 1 minute. So, yeah, between 3 and 18, in 15 years, they only lost 3 minutes. Isn't that wild?
- [134:31]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. I mean, you get to the. You're just not going to get those big gains after.
- [134:35]
Joe Rogan
Right. I mean, someone would have to be a freak to drop under two hours. Right?
- [134:41]
Cameron Haynes
So they. They did this with. I think he got under two hours here.
- [134:46]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [134:46]
Cameron Haynes
And he had all these pacers and people breaking the wind. For him, see. Oh, I think it's Kipchoge. Yeah. He's like in white, so that doesn't count as much.
- [134:56]
Joe Rogan
Well, someone's breaking the wind for you. Right?
- [134:58]
Cameron Haynes
You can't have official pacers just if you're not racing them.
- [135:02]
Joe Rogan
Oh, there were pacers for him.
- [135:04]
Cameron Haynes
Just for him.
- [135:05]
Joe Rogan
This challenge.
- [135:06]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [135:06]
Joe Rogan
Just to do this is the INEOS pace challenge. So Ineos is that company that makes that Grenadier. Have you seen that truck?
- [135:13]
Cameron Haynes
No.
- [135:13]
Joe Rogan
It's kind of a funny story. INEOS is like a chemical company. And the guy loved Range Rover Land Cruiser defenders and wanted to remake them. When they stopped making them, they said no. He's like. Tried to buy their factory, like, no. So he's like, okay, I'll make my own. So he basically made a better Defender. So this is. These are new trucks that are way more durable, way better quality than those. Like if you get one of those classic defenders, they look cool, but it's. When you shut the door on them, it feels like you're closing a garbage can.
- [135:49]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, I. I see.
- [135:49]
Joe Rogan
They. They feel like junk. They feel like these things are tanks.
- [135:53]
Cameron Haynes
These are built. Huh?
- [135:54]
Joe Rogan
They're. Well, they're built specifically for off roading.
- [135:57]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, I see.
- [135:58]
Joe Rogan
But it's a brand new truck instead.
- [136:01]
Cameron Haynes
I never heard of them.
- [136:02]
Joe Rogan
Right. I know it looks like a classic Defender, but it's actually way better. Way better. Like, I've saw one in the flesh. I was like, oh, this thing is super legit. Like heavier gauge steel, like really tight tolerances. And I've watched a bunch of videos on them. They're all outfitted. Like you could take one of those hunting for sure. They're outfitted with electricity. Like in the back. They're all set up where you could put like coolers back there, like, like a little refrigerator. Yeah. And they're all. They're literally from the factory set up for outdoors. Like, you don't have to do nothing to them. You could take them, do Moab with them, take them out into the the woods and go.
- [136:45]
Cameron Haynes
Still have Hennessy, like sweet them up a little bit.
- [136:49]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. It doesn't have nearly the kind of horsepower that.
- [136:52]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [136:52]
Joe Rogan
You know, like a Raptor has or anything like that. It's like. Right. I think they only have like 300 horsepower, 208, which is not a lot, but it's the durability of the things and like the purpose built. This guy just. But so that's the same company, ineos.
- [137:06]
Cameron Haynes
Okay.
- [137:07]
Joe Rogan
That's the. Who's that pace challenge, that race. Yeah. That's what that company is.
- [137:11]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. That the goal was to try to break two hours in that race.
- [137:15]
Joe Rogan
So he did. He got down to 159. I think he did. Pacers.
- [137:17]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [137:18]
Joe Rogan
So it's possible for someone to do that without a pacer.
- [137:22]
Cameron Haynes
That's what it kind of showed.
- [137:23]
Joe Rogan
Seems like it.
- [137:24]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. That's so crazy. It's. Yeah, it's super fast.
- [137:27]
Joe Rogan
That's so crazy.
- [137:28]
Cameron Haynes
Super fast.
- [137:29]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [137:29]
Cameron Haynes
It's like what, what one. Eugene was 217. So still like what was the world record back in was at the 50s.
- [137:38]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [137:38]
Cameron Haynes
That's what won Eugene still. So that. That'll still win most marathons.
- [137:42]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [137:43]
Cameron Haynes
But yeah, it's flying.
- [137:46]
Joe Rogan
And the amount of work you have to do to get to that fast.
- [137:49]
Cameron Haynes
That'S what I do. I do sympathize with the pro runners because the, the work you have to put in to be elite.
- [137:58]
Joe Rogan
Whatever. You get what you deserve. This is what you get in life. What you deserve.
- [138:04]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. Hey, throw some jeans on if you don't like it.
- [138:07]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. You don't like the fact that he's getting attention because he's a handsome guy who's jacked, who's wearing jeans off. Do you think Courtney cares about that? No. Yeah, right. Do you think she would be focusing on other people? That's people that want more than they're getting. What about me? I'm winning. No one cares.
- [138:28]
Cameron Haynes
Well, we, we have gatekeepers in hunting too. I don't know if you knew that.
- [138:32]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, allegedly there's gatekeepers and everything. There's. Well, there's always people that compare themselves to other people and then they don't like what they find so they try to find flaws in that other person. Yeah, that's what it is. You know, there's just. But that's that with literature, filmmaking, music, comedy.
- [138:51]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [138:51]
Joe Rogan
Fill in the blanks. There's always, there's always out there. And what do they. They about everything.
- [138:59]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [139:00]
Joe Rogan
Sub 230 Marathon in 2025 or die.
- [139:05]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. So that he's gon get it. I mean there's no, there's no doubt he's going to get it.
- [139:10]
Joe Rogan
He. He broke the world pull up record. He did 10,000 pull ups in 24 hours. That's nuts.
- [139:16]
Cameron Haynes
And so people are saying like oh, peds or ep. It's like we're, we ordered breakfast after the marathon. I'm like, I don't even know what the EPO stands for. Do you?
- [139:28]
Joe Rogan
I don't know, but I know what it does?
- [139:30]
Cameron Haynes
Well, it's supposed to make more red blood cells, right?
- [139:32]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. That's what, you know, a lot of the Tour de France people were doing.
- [139:37]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, that's as much as I know about it. So I'm like, we were at breakfast and I'm like, do you think somebody in Springfield, Oregon has epo? What are you guys talking about?
- [139:48]
Joe Rogan
You could get it, but I don't think he's on it. But the, the thing is, like, fighters have been popped for it. EPO is real. Yeah. I think that's actually what never actually TJ Dillashaw got popped for.
- [139:58]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, was that that.
- [139:59]
Joe Rogan
Yes. When T.J. dillashaw fought Henry Cejudo, when he got all the way down to flyweight. The thing about that, though, is I understand why TJ did that, because TJ was literally starving himself.
- [140:11]
Cameron Haynes
He's trying to get to 125.
- [140:13]
Joe Rogan
Yes. Starving himself to death because he would have to cut a lot of weight to make 135. So he had this idea that he was going to become a two division champion.
- [140:22]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [140:22]
Joe Rogan
Drop down to 25 and he was. Was just a dead man. He had nothing left. And it probably shortened his career. It really probably did because he looked like hell. And then Henry Cejudo took him out in the first round.
- [140:35]
Cameron Haynes
You know, when you put. So this. I'm not trying to compare me at all, but I was losing weight, trying intentionally trying to get lighter for these races coming up. So I was my, my same theory of burning 4,000, eating 3,000. So a thousand calorie deficit a day, which is fine for regular life, but when you're put. I was also running 100 miles a week. That's what my ham. My body just wasn't getting what it needed. But I was still trying to push hard.
- [141:08]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [141:08]
Cameron Haynes
That's why I got injured.
- [141:10]
Joe Rogan
What do you. What did you want your goal weight to be?
- [141:13]
Cameron Haynes
55.
- [141:14]
Joe Rogan
So at 155, then you feel like it's easier to run. What's the most you've ever weighed and run, like 100 miler?
- [141:22]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, probably like 80.
- [141:24]
Joe Rogan
180, yeah. What was that like? It was hard.
- [141:26]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [141:27]
Joe Rogan
Because I think about that a lot of times when I'm wearing my weight vest because I have one of those outdoorsman's packs. So it's got the post on the back and I put a 45 pound plate on it. And so the, the, the pack probably weighs like five pounds and then the plates. So it's 50 pounds. Pounds. That's like a normal Thing that people have to lose.
- [141:45]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [141:46]
Joe Rogan
It's a normal thing.
- [141:46]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [141:47]
Joe Rogan
And I'm walking up hills with this thing. I'm like, this sucks. This sucks. And this isn't even that heavy.
- [141:53]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [141:54]
Joe Rogan
And. And some people, they have to lose £100. Like, what is. What do your joints feel like, man? Because it hurts my feet.
- [142:00]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. I mean, you saw it. Jelly rolls Lost, like, 200 now.
- [142:03]
Joe Rogan
I know.
- [142:04]
Cameron Haynes
200 pounds.
- [142:05]
Joe Rogan
He threw his phone away. He threw his phone away. Did he get it back?
- [142:09]
Cameron Haynes
I think he got it back.
- [142:10]
Joe Rogan
Oh, no.
- [142:10]
Cameron Haynes
I've been seeing some social media posts.
- [142:12]
Joe Rogan
Well, I think he's got a guy who does that. Oh, yeah. Because I reached out to him and it came up green.
- [142:19]
Cameron Haynes
I was like, yeah, I did too.
- [142:20]
Joe Rogan
Then I reached out to him on Instagram, and his social media guy says, I'll get this message to Jelly Roll. But he got rid of his phone.
- [142:27]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, good.
- [142:28]
Joe Rogan
He had the same phone forever. And, you know, years of drinking in bars and giving out his number because he's so nice. He gave out his number to everybody, and apparently everybody is just blowing his phone up all day long. And he's a superstar now, and it's just like.
- [142:42]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [142:42]
Joe Rogan
Overwhelming. And I think, like a lot of people, he was dealing with social media addiction, I'm sure, you know, and then he's on this path to lose weight and get healthy. And so, yeah, he just decided, chuck that phone away. These phones, no phone.
- [142:57]
Cameron Haynes
Good move. I mean, he looks so good right now.
- [142:59]
Joe Rogan
He looks great.
- [143:00]
Cameron Haynes
He looks. He's the opposite of Bert.
- [143:02]
Joe Rogan
He's the nicest guy ever. He's not the opposite of Bert.
- [143:06]
Cameron Haynes
Took his way.
- [143:07]
Joe Rogan
They're gonna meet in the middle. He's still got some ways to go.
- [143:11]
Cameron Haynes
Bert will get. He'll be back on I. And I do have to give Bird props. He is strong.
- [143:17]
Joe Rogan
Oh, he's strong.
- [143:17]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, he's strong. So he. He benched a lot. He beat me in benching.
- [143:21]
Joe Rogan
Did he really?
- [143:22]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [143:22]
Joe Rogan
What did he bench?
- [143:24]
Cameron Haynes
He did, like, 225. Like, 13 times. 10 times?
- [143:29]
Joe Rogan
Something like that.
- [143:30]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [143:30]
Joe Rogan
That's impressive, because back in the sober October days, when we're talking about when he had that challenge, he couldn't do it once.
- [143:36]
Cameron Haynes
Really?
- [143:36]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. He couldn't do 225 once because we all had, like, this little contest, like, who can do 225? And he couldn't do it at all.
- [143:44]
Cameron Haynes
He's on PED.
- [143:45]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, he is, for sure. He's definitely on testosterone.
- [143:48]
Cameron Haynes
No, he's strong, but he's.
- [143:49]
Joe Rogan
He works Hard.
- [143:50]
Cameron Haynes
And he, I, I just drinks hard too. I think I, I heard him say on here that he did. Did pull back my, my 80 pound bow.
- [143:57]
Joe Rogan
Did he?
- [143:57]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [143:58]
Joe Rogan
That's impressive.
- [143:59]
Cameron Haynes
I know. I'm telling you, he's pretty strong because.
- [144:01]
Joe Rogan
You know who couldn't pull back my bow? Alexander Gustafson.
- [144:04]
Cameron Haynes
Really?
- [144:04]
Joe Rogan
He fought in the UFC at 205. Yeah.
- [144:06]
Cameron Haynes
He's huge.
- [144:07]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. He couldn't pull the bow back.
- [144:08]
Cameron Haynes
Pulling a bow, he's like, is there.
- [144:09]
Joe Rogan
A trick to this? I go, no, here's the trick.
- [144:12]
Cameron Haynes
Just pull that fucker back.
- [144:13]
Joe Rogan
Pull that fucker back.
- [144:14]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [144:14]
Joe Rogan
I do it 100 times a day.
- [144:16]
Cameron Haynes
It's. Yeah. I mean, if people haven't done it, it's tough.
- [144:19]
Joe Rogan
I started incorporating and this is probably a good thing for anybody who shoots archery a lot, lot to do. I started incorporating what you told me, which was cable rows standing up while holding a 10 pound weight.
- [144:32]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [144:32]
Joe Rogan
And it's making a world of difference because I was developing a pretty severe imbalance. And then by being a meathead, I was pushing through this tendon pain that I was developing on my right lower side from just stabilizing and holding this 85 pound bow. All these reps only one way, and it's like, that's not smart.
- [144:54]
Cameron Haynes
Right.
- [144:55]
Joe Rogan
So I started switching it over. However many times I pull the bow back with my right arm, I'll do that same amount with cable rows while holding this 10 pound weight out. And it's made all the difference in the world because now I have tendon problems on my left side too. So it balances it out perfect. Not really. It's not. But I do feel like a lot of soreness on that side when I do these long hits sessions. I'm hitting it.
- [145:19]
Cameron Haynes
You're hitting it at least.
- [145:20]
Joe Rogan
And then I'm doing a lot of back extensions. And here's the big one, that Reverse Hyper. You know, I've talked about that machine before. That machine is a goddamn life changer.
- [145:30]
Cameron Haynes
But, dude, you have everything here.
- [145:32]
Joe Rogan
It's nice. Yeah, it's nice.
- [145:33]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. I have to go to like four different places to get everything you have here.
- [145:37]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, the gym is pretty sweet. It's. It's set up real nice. That Reverse Hyper is so big though, because it's, it pulls the back. It like it's decompressing on the downswing. And you know, when you stack the weight on there, I like to get about. So I have two 45s on each side. And lately I've been sticking an additional 25 on each side. So a lot of weight.
- [145:59]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [146:00]
Joe Rogan
So you're doing this swing up so it strengthens the hamstrings and the lower back muscles. And then on a swing down, it's like pulling it, like stretching it out. And then I like to do that dex machine where you hang from your hip hips. You swing down and you're just decompressing the back.
- [146:17]
Cameron Haynes
Yep.
- [146:17]
Joe Rogan
And I've been doing deep stretches in the sauna every day. Every day. Instead of just sitting in the sauna for 25 minutes now I'm doing like heavy stretches. It's so hard to do when it's 195 in there.
- [146:34]
Cameron Haynes
You do the water?
- [146:36]
Joe Rogan
No.
- [146:36]
Cameron Haynes
What? You got to do the steam.
- [146:39]
Joe Rogan
Dude, it's so hot in there.
- [146:40]
Cameron Haynes
Dude, I do it. Same thing. But you gotta do.
- [146:42]
Joe Rogan
Are you stretching?
- [146:43]
Cameron Haynes
No.
- [146:44]
Joe Rogan
You don't even stretch it unless you blew out your hamstring. Do you do push ups in there?
- [146:47]
Cameron Haynes
Sometimes. Oh, but I want to get an exercise bike in there.
- [146:51]
Joe Rogan
Oh, I know people. There's a.
- [146:54]
Cameron Haynes
Mine is too narrow.
- [146:55]
Joe Rogan
That's a, A sauna that's set up that way. Like it's called a fit song or something like that. Laird Hamilton has a Airdyne bike in his. Yeah, he's got oven mitts. He puts oven mitts on, rides the air dye with oven.
- [147:08]
Cameron Haynes
That'd be sick, dude.
- [147:09]
Joe Rogan
It would be sick.
- [147:10]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [147:10]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [147:11]
Cameron Haynes
I love doing the sauna. Then right into the cold plunge.
- [147:14]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's nice. It's nice.
- [147:15]
Cameron Haynes
That's my.
- [147:16]
Joe Rogan
I do. I'm almost always doing the cold plunge first. That's, that's the beginning of the workout is cold plunge. And then this whole body weight thing that I do just to warm back up. 100 push ups, 100 sets. And now I added a hundred kettlebell swings. Okay, So I do three sets of 20. Three sets of 23 sets or five sets of 25 sets of 25. So 20, 20. But I do them like 1, 2, 3. So I do like first push ups, then body weights. Got. And then I do five, five cycles. So it's a hundred of everything. And then by that time I'm warmed up, it's like 15, 20, 500 reps.
- [147:48]
Cameron Haynes
Or how many movements?
- [147:50]
Joe Rogan
Three movements. 100 each. 300 reps. 300. So 303, you know, 100 swings, 100 push ups, 100 body weight squats.
- [147:57]
Cameron Haynes
And then did I hear no drinking anymore?
- [148:00]
Joe Rogan
No drinking for like two plus months now. Yeah, I'm never going back. I mean, I will. Maybe I'll have a glass of wine somewhere, if I feel like it. Like, I'm not an alcoholic.
- [148:09]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [148:10]
Joe Rogan
But I feel stupid for waiting this long.
- [148:14]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [148:15]
Joe Rogan
Because, like, I would have these days. Like, because, you know, I have a nightclub, I have a bar. We go to the club, do some shows, have a couple of cocktails with the boys, have a bunch of laughs, do a podcast, have some whiskey, have some laughs. And then the next day, like, yeah. And I'd be going through my workouts going, oh, you fucking moron, what have you done? And I do the hyperbaric and drink a lot of electrolytes and try to flush it out. But if you're concentrating on improving your health and your fitness, why are you poisoning yourself?
- [148:49]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. Sabotaging yourself.
- [148:50]
Joe Rogan
But you'll also start thinking, well, that's the only way to have fun. You have to have fun, too. But no, it's not changing my fun.
- [148:57]
Cameron Haynes
Goggins doesn't have fun.
- [148:59]
Joe Rogan
Well, he's different. He's not having fun. He's not trying to have fun. I'm trying to have fun. Like, part of my job is fun. Like, I want. Like, fun is a prerequisite. Like, as a comedian, like, you have to be having fun.
- [149:11]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [149:11]
Joe Rogan
It's part of the fun of comedy is like, enjoying it. You enjoy it, they enjoy it, everybody enjoys. It's fun. And so I thought, like, maybe it would be less fun if I was. So it's not. It's not any less fun sober. It's just as fun. And it's just. I feel better. And this is one of the things that I've always tried to tell all these comedians. And, you know, I bring a bunch of them in here and work out with them, and we have these comedian workout sessions that we were doing. And, you know, Shane comes in here all the time and works out on his own. So does Derek and Hassan and all these guys from the club. But if you have more energy, you will have more energy on stage. If you have more energy, you could do more shows. You could do multiple shows a night. You don't get fatigued. Like, it. It carries over into comedy.
- [149:58]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [149:58]
Joe Rogan
Like, your body and your brain are inexorably connected. If your body functions better, your brain will function. But it's like, it's not rocket science. It's real simple. It's just nobody wants to do it because everybody. You can. Look, you can be with the best comedian ever and never lift a weight and it'll work out. But if the best comedian ever did that too, I bet they would be better. Yeah, I bet they'd be better at everything in life, I would think. Yeah. It doesn't mean that, like, the best person has to do that. Otherwise you won't be the best person. No. There could be someone who's just so funny. It doesn't matter. They could be fat as fuck and be hilarious and barely walk, you know, and just be so funny just because they're just gifted and they put a lot of time into comedy. But if they were healthier, they'd feel better, they'd enjoy life more, and they'd probably be better at everything they do. Not just comedy. Yeah, everything.
- [150:47]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. I just. I mean, on a different level. It's like when I was trying to lose that weight to get lighter. I came here the last time I saw you. We saw you at ways too. Well. But I try to do everything perfect, but just being on the road, traveling to Texas and going back, I could not get my body weight back down for, like, four days.
- [151:08]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [151:09]
Cameron Haynes
From. And it's not like I was drinking or eating donuts. Just. Yeah, just. You know, you go to that. That steak place at the hotel I'm staying at. Really good. Remember those big steaks we had?
- [151:20]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [151:21]
Cameron Haynes
And I'm, like, eating this meat, going, how much sugar is on this thing? I mean, there's got. They put brown sugar on it. That's why it tastes so good.
- [151:29]
Joe Rogan
Which place is that?
- [151:30]
Cameron Haynes
You ate there.
- [151:31]
Joe Rogan
Which place?
- [151:32]
Cameron Haynes
Me, You, Evan and Tyler. Omni. Barton Creek. Omni, right.
- [151:37]
Joe Rogan
Oh, Bob's.
- [151:39]
Cameron Haynes
Bob's.
- [151:39]
Joe Rogan
No, this. They don't put sugar on their steak.
- [151:42]
Cameron Haynes
Something is on there.
- [151:43]
Joe Rogan
Well, you're eating that carrot. That carrot seems to be glazed.
- [151:46]
Cameron Haynes
Eat that.
- [151:47]
Joe Rogan
That carrot's awesome. That carrot's the size of a football. Like, where. What lab in China are they growing them? I know.
- [151:54]
Cameron Haynes
Okay, but the meat has something has to have sugar on it. It's too good.
- [151:59]
Joe Rogan
No.
- [151:59]
Cameron Haynes
Yes, I know.
- [152:00]
Joe Rogan
I don't think so.
- [152:01]
Cameron Haynes
Okay, well, then why could I not get my body weight?
- [152:04]
Joe Rogan
I think you're eating mashed potatoes and stuff too. You're eating a bunch of other stuff as well. I don't think their steaks have sugar on them.
- [152:10]
Cameron Haynes
I think they do. RFK thinks they do, too. He's banning them. He's banning Bob's.
- [152:17]
Joe Rogan
There's so many good restaurants out here.
- [152:19]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [152:20]
Joe Rogan
This town has so many good places to eat.
- [152:23]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. But my point was, if you deviate a little bit from a disciplined, perfect diet, it. Yeah, it takes a while. So your body is. Point is to all that. Your body's so sensitive. When you get so dialed in on everything, man, you really, really. You really realize how little it takes to throw you off.
- [152:44]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [152:44]
Cameron Haynes
So imagine drinking.
- [152:45]
Joe Rogan
Well, that's the thing. Poison everybody. Yeah, Everybody I know that has an aura ring or wears a whoop strap. Like, if you wear a whoop strap, you know, it'll show you how much you recover through the night. And if you drink, you will notice a big dip. If you have one cocktail. One cocktail will be a big dip in the amount of recovery you have. And you won't even notice it. You'll be like, I wasn't even drunk.
- [153:09]
Cameron Haynes
If you're not trying to perform and do something right, you won't notice it. Like a regular person at a regular job, it might. Maybe you'll feel like a little sluggish. But it's when you start to, like, work out and perform and run and you're, like, looking at these times or you're on the scale and you're like, what the is going on?
- [153:27]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah.
- [153:28]
Cameron Haynes
Crazy.
- [153:29]
Joe Rogan
Well, most people are just used to feeling like garbage. Well, think about most people's diet, and if they just cleaned up their diet and then just cut out all the nonsense, cut out all the processed food, cut out all the sugar, cut out all the sugary drinks and just drink water and eat healthy, pure, whole foods, you would feel so much better. But most people aren't doing that. So they're accustomed. They think this is what you're supposed to feel like. This is life.
- [153:54]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [153:54]
Joe Rogan
It's like having water in your ear and you forget and then you. It pops. Like. Oh, I can hear now, right? Like they're walking through life with water in their ear and they think, this is what it sounds like. But it's just. You're poisoning yourself.
- [154:07]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [154:08]
Joe Rogan
If you're eating the standard American diet, if you're eating burgers and fries, drinking soda and eating candy, you are poisoning yourself.
- [154:16]
Cameron Haynes
I went. I was coming back from Iran, and I don't. I think I was. I was dying of thirst. So I usually take, like, a Visa in my shorts so I can buy something. But anyway, I went into Fred Meyer back there at home, and I never go shopping. I've. I don't even remember the last time I was in a grocery store. I don't. But I was walking down the aisles of a regular grocery store, and I was like, holy, I want to eat all this stuff. It looks. It's terrible, but. Looks as bright colors and just like. Like I. Every aisle. I don't know what I was Looking for supposedly something to drink, but I don't know what. But I just kept walking down the aisles going, I haven't eaten any of this in so long. But it looks so good. And then I was thinking, that's what most people are buying and eating.
- [154:59]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [155:00]
Cameron Haynes
The.
- [155:00]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [155:01]
Cameron Haynes
No wonder you feel terrible.
- [155:03]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Most of what you're eating in the supermarket. Most of what you can buy in the supermarket is terrible for you.
- [155:09]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [155:10]
Joe Rogan
The whole center area.
- [155:11]
Cameron Haynes
Right.
- [155:12]
Joe Rogan
Is all.
- [155:13]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [155:13]
Joe Rogan
You know, unless it's like, like tomato sauce or whatever. And even that. A lot of that has like a seed oils in it. If you buy it from a shitty company, it's a lot of garbage. People are eating a lot of garbage. And that's the average person. And. And then you have a doctor like, you don't need vitamins.
- [155:29]
Cameron Haynes
Oh.
- [155:30]
Joe Rogan
You just have a balanced diet. Shut up, you slob. You doughy sack of. With old information.
- [155:37]
Cameron Haynes
Well, so here's the point that I just remembered my point. So I was trying to buy donuts because I was doing an ultramarathon the next day. So you saw like me and Courtney running. Normally, it doesn't matter what type of calories. When you're working that hard, you just need calories and salt, sugar. So I'm like, I'm gonna get some old fashioned donuts. Because I was gonna do this 50K. I'm like, that'll be perfect calories. So you know where I found the donuts and the fucking produce over there with the vegetables. So they're like hiding little treasures. You're trying to be healthy. Like, I'll get it apple. Then you like look at a old fashioned donut, right? You're like this apple. I'm gonna get these donuts. So they still sabotage.
- [156:16]
Joe Rogan
Clever. Yeah. I wonder if there's like a marketing strategy involved in that. I wonder if they had like a meeting. Like, look, people are trying to eat well, but we can them.
- [156:24]
Cameron Haynes
The algorithm.
- [156:25]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, yeah, it's like the algorithm. It really is kind of.
- [156:28]
Cameron Haynes
They're predicting everything.
- [156:30]
Joe Rogan
That's the other thing I've been doing. I'm basically off of social media. All I'm doing is I will. I still allow myself to look at it. If I'm taking a. I'll look, but I try not to like linger.
- [156:41]
Cameron Haynes
So now every time you send me something, I know you're most likely.
- [156:44]
Joe Rogan
Or someone says. Or someone said, well, I didn't send you. I sent you YouTube videos. That's different.
- [156:51]
Cameron Haynes
Okay.
- [156:51]
Joe Rogan
I watched. I was watching that actually at home on tv.
- [156:54]
Cameron Haynes
Okay.
- [156:54]
Joe Rogan
I was watching that on the big screen because I, you know, I was interested, like, last night in watching, like, some, you know, every night is a different. If I get, like, some downtime and I can relax a little bit and watch something on tv. Sometimes I like watching a, you know, a fiction show like Mobland or something like that, but sometimes I get on these kicks where I want to watch certain things. And last night, it was like old school fighters training, you know, and I just got. I went down this rabbit hole. I watched old school Sugar Ray Robinson, too. That was amazing. He was another one, super dedicated to his craft. Again, trained harder than anybody, but also trained smarter. He would move different than people because he was a dancer. He actually retired from fighting for a brief period of time just to be a dancer and performed, like, in, like, dance shows.
- [157:45]
Cameron Haynes
Wow.
- [157:45]
Joe Rogan
And then went back to fighting. But. So he could move, man.
- [157:48]
Cameron Haynes
And footwork.
- [157:49]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, but it was like. It was intentional. It wasn't. It was all like. There were certain moves that he would. He had programmed into his footwork and movement and his balance, his ability to get out of the way and. And, you know, he was fighting at a time where these guys are fighting like, every couple of weeks, you know.
- [158:05]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, they fought a lot.
- [158:07]
Joe Rogan
Crazy.
- [158:07]
Cameron Haynes
What's. What's your. So you said fighting sometimes, but what. What is. Is your go to. On YouTube, do you think you watch most?
- [158:14]
Joe Rogan
If I want to just zone out, it's professional pool. I like watching professional pool because I still. That's My number one addiction is playing pool.
- [158:25]
Cameron Haynes
So that comes up on your recommended list on YouTube.
- [158:27]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, mostly pool. And then ancient civilization.
- [158:30]
Cameron Haynes
Okay.
- [158:31]
Joe Rogan
Ancient civilizations is number two. I love watching videos on these mysteries where they're just uncovering. Like, I was watching this whole thing in Malta about Malta the other day, where they found these elongated skulls in Malta that are missing the characteristics of a Norman. Normal human skull. So a normal human skull has. I think it's called a sagittal crest. There's a line that goes down the middle. Like, this is like a. You know, like, as you're. You're growing as a baby, you have, like, these plates in your head that move around and they expand as your head grows. And there's, like, lines. So there's a line that goes straight. There's a line that goes like this across. These heads don't have that. They don't have the line that goes straight. But they're elongated human skulls, and they have a line that goes in the back, but they don't have the Line that goes down, down the center. And they're trying to, like, make sense of this. Like, what is this? What is this? And Malta is a giant mystery. Like, Malta is this island that used to be at one point in time, before the flood, it was connected to Sicily. And they know Neanderthals lived there, like, thousands of years before, you know, recorded civilization. But they didn't think peep Homo sapiens did. But they found these elongated skulls that are different than any human skull. Then they found these incredible stone constructions. These. These stone buildings and immense stones that have crazy erosion on them that they think is more than 6,000 years of erosion. So they're trying to figure out, like, what happened. Like, what is this? How old is this? Is this from before the flood? Is this one before the ice age? Like, what. What the is this stuff? And why are these elongated skulls there?
- [160:22]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, that's nuts.
- [160:23]
Joe Rogan
Bizarre stuff. Yeah, bizarre stuff because it's like there's so many mysteries in terms of, like, the human race and. And how long people have been building things. And every now and then they'll uncover something that pushes everything back. Like, they used to think the first people in North America were, like, 13,000 years ago was Clovis first. Then they found these footprints in New Mexico that are 22,000 years old. So, like. Well, okay, well, that's not, number one. That's not like, the first person to come here. There's like, probably people even before that.
- [160:56]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [160:57]
Joe Rogan
But there's very little information. And then there's this, like, crazy stone wall that they found in Montana, and it was on private property, and no one even knew it was there there. And these people, they just were clearing some land and they found this wall, this thing. It's. I think it's called the Sage wall in Montana. But these immense stones that looks like they were placed there who knows how long. And there's people arguing, oh, this is like, natural. This. This is it.
- [161:30]
Cameron Haynes
Whoa.
- [161:30]
Joe Rogan
What the is that, dude? So that was all covered with treat, by the way. It goes deep into the ground too. It goes like 10ft deep into the ground.
- [161:38]
Cameron Haynes
Wow.
- [161:38]
Joe Rogan
So they're like, okay, is this a natural formation? Yeah, it doesn't look natural. It looks like human beings place those stones. Yeah, it looks like it was placed there. Yeah, it's really weird, man. Look like there's like, weird stuff about it like that, like someone made that. That has a circle that's carved into it. And then there's like, the. The p. The. The. That sort of structure that looks like it's the outline of it.
- [162:04]
Cameron Haynes
Right.
- [162:05]
Joe Rogan
So there's a lot of arguments. Like that one photograph right there. That photograph's crazy. Looks fake. Yeah. Is that fake?
- [162:13]
Cameron Haynes
Looks fake.
- [162:13]
Joe Rogan
That one's fake. Are you sure the rest of them. Well, let's see which one is fake and which one isn't. Cuz some of them, that one on the upper left hand is definitely real. And these, like I said, these go down deep. You know, they've done like, they've used like machinery or sensors to find out how deep that goes. And it goes like 10ft down deep into the ground.
- [162:33]
Cameron Haynes
Like look at that one with the rock on top of it, that flat rock up there.
- [162:37]
Joe Rogan
Like what is. Right, yeah. There's a lot of weird, weird stuff when it comes to. So if this is man made, how old is that? Yeah, like how old is that? There's nothing else there, Just that wall.
- [162:51]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [162:51]
Joe Rogan
Like, or maybe is there other. Because they didn't even know this existed. I think it was till the 90s. 90s.
- [162:57]
Cameron Haynes
Wow.
- [162:58]
Joe Rogan
96.
- [162:59]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [162:59]
Joe Rogan
So what other stuff is out there that people haven't uncovered that is covered with ground? It's another thing they're finding out about the rainforest. They used to think the Amazon rainforest was like these little patching tribes of people. Well, there's a guy that visited in the 1500s and he said that there was like these crazy temples and these huge structures and cities with millions of people. And then new explorers went a hundred years later and they found none of these things because that first guy probably gave everybody diseases and killed the entire continent, which is nuts. Like probably killed everybody that lived in the Amazon. Like the Amazon at 1. I was watching another documentary on this the other night. They found they use lidar. So this lidar, they fly over it and they use this, these sensors to detect these structures that are deep in the rainforest that are covered with trees and they're finding all of these corridors and squares and things that seem to indicate irrigation and structures. Like this is nuts.
- [164:03]
Cameron Haynes
Wow.
- [164:04]
Joe Rogan
So there was like millions of people living in the Amazon and some dirty Europeans came over in the 1500s and gave them their cooties and they all died out. Yeah, just like what happened with most of the Native Americans. Like most people think, like most people don't know, but the Native Americans, like 90% of the Native Americans were killed by disease. That 90% of the population died off by disease. Which is crazy. Yeah, Millions of people living this nomadic life in North America while the renaissance is going on over in Europe. Europe. And these people using Flint arrowheads and. Yeah, nuts. They didn't even have horses. They didn't have horses until the Europeans came over and brought them. The whole thing's crazy.
- [164:50]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, it is.
- [164:52]
Joe Rogan
That's. So that's what I'm watching a lot of.
- [164:55]
Cameron Haynes
That's. That's your go to.
- [164:56]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, I'm. I'm just absolutely fascinated by ancient civilizations and then these mysteries like the. This. The pyramids and these structures they found under the pyramid. Have you seen that? Yeah, that's crazy. Like, what is that?
- [165:10]
Cameron Haynes
I've heard talk about it.
- [165:12]
Joe Rogan
Basically, I don't know if it's right. I don't know if it's wrong. I mean, I know some people think it's nonsense, but the researchers seem to think that they've done multiple scans and gotten the same results over and over again. And they're like, whatever these things are, there's pillars and there's spirals around the pillars, and it goes deep into the ground, and the whole structure is two kilometers deep.
- [165:35]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, I heard. I think I heard you talking about. Then I heard that I thought it was fake.
- [165:39]
Joe Rogan
Some people think that it can't be real because there's a water table underneath the Great Pyramid. But the question is, is it real and there's a water table? Is this in the water?
- [165:50]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [165:51]
Joe Rogan
Like, is it. So it. Are. Was. Were these people so advanced they built these insane structures 2 km deep through the water? Because, look, if they. Look, it's nuts that they can make the pyramid.
- [166:01]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, I know.
- [166:02]
Joe Rogan
The pyramid still doesn't make sense itself is nuts. All the structures, the. The Temple of Luxor, all that stuff is crazy. So if they can make that, why are we assuming that that's the pinnacle of crazy? Like the. There might be crazier below the surface.
- [166:17]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, that is, like, found yet.
- [166:18]
Joe Rogan
Right? Imagine if everybody thought that the most advanced buildings that were ever created were like buildings they built in Chicago in the 1800s, you know. Wow, look at this. This is a. What craftsmanship. Boy, people had reached an incredible level of ability. And then someone stumbles upon the period, and they're like, the pyramid. Okay, wait. Yeah. What the is this? There's 2,300,000 stones in this, and they weigh between 2 and 80 tons. And they're cut from a quarry hundreds of miles away. Some of them move through the mountains. Like, how. So that's crazy. And imagine we think, well, this is the height of crazy. Well, you go under the surface of it, below the ground, you get, what is this two kilometer deep structure? Yeah, that's even crazy. That makes that look simple. Right. It's. Well then these people are just moving stones. How the fuck they get it through the water?
- [167:11]
Cameron Haynes
What I think of when I hear that is could you imagine the hunting back then?
- [167:14]
Joe Rogan
Oh my God.
- [167:15]
Cameron Haynes
Epic.
- [167:16]
Joe Rogan
Probably. But you have shitty bows. You didn't have a nice bow. You didn't have a bow.
- [167:21]
Cameron Haynes
Could you imagine.
- [167:22]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [167:22]
Cameron Haynes
If you had had a sick bow.
- [167:24]
Joe Rogan
Oh my God. If you had a modern bow back then.
- [167:27]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. There's two things that I thought of. But you know when, when bears get old, they get a crease in their. In their skull.
- [167:33]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [167:33]
Cameron Haynes
So it's like when you're talking about that skull, I was wondering if it was age related. I don't. I don't see how the lines would disappear.
- [167:39]
Joe Rogan
But no, the lines wouldn't disappear. That's. That was the argument of this video that I was watching. See if you can find any of those elongated skulls of Malta. There was whole bunch of stuff apparent. Like I'm seeing urban legend. They talked about 10 years ago. They were on display. They weren't on display. Yeah. But they're definitely not an urban legend because this was. I was watching an actual archaeologist discussing these things and then there was a alternative guy that was discussing and saying that the issue is with these lines in the skull don't exist in these skulls. But they were all admit that these skull. Well, there's different one. This is ancient aliens. I just googled multisculls. I just go with. They're all. That's what I'm saying is there's different stuff that comes up all the way from Malta websites to talk about it. Because this is something that people would want to go see. Right. Let's click on that one, see if you. If they have any images on display. Because like this is accepted by actual archaeologists that there's. Because human beings have been doing weird stuff with. So that's it right there. There. So you see how that skull has that line through the top. Most skulls have a line straight down the middle too. That's how human skulls are. So this is weird. These are. Now also. Here's the thing. Could totally be a human that has genetic anomalies. Like there's these people in Africa that have. They called them ostrich feet people.
- [169:01]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [169:02]
Joe Rogan
There's this weird genetic anomaly that this whole village has where their feet instead of having five like a. A big toe and four little toes they have like branched off like a. Like an ostrich. Like, like it looks really strange.
- [169:17]
Cameron Haynes
And that's real.
- [169:18]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, yeah, it's totally real. And it's real today. It's. But it's a genetic anomaly and it's been passed on through, you know, these people in this one tribe, in this one area. So it's like someone had it, they gave. So it could be that, right? It could be that. That skull looks weird.
- [169:36]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [169:36]
Joe Rogan
Because these people were just born weird, right?
- [169:38]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [169:39]
Joe Rogan
You know people. Some people are born with giant noses.
- [169:41]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [169:42]
Joe Rogan
People have huge heads.
- [169:43]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [169:43]
Joe Rogan
Some people are like 7ft tall for no reason. Big dicks. Yeah. Giant hogs.
- [169:48]
Cameron Haynes
You know, it's like we've been. We vary lifted with that.
- [169:51]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, humans vary quite a bit. So it could be that, that's why that skull looks that way. But it is absolutely fascinating. And one of the things that they keep finding is new versions of human beings which is really weird. Like they found the Denisovans, I think they found those in like 2010. And then there was. What is the recent ones, Jamie, that we were talking about that have the big heads. There's these big headed like not Homo sapien but like cousins of Homo sapiens that they just found these like really recently, within the last few years. They're like, okay, this is. We thought these are Denis Ovens. This is a totally different branch. And so there's multiple branches of human beings that coexisted along with Homo sapiens and Neanderthals for a long ass time. Yeah. Scientists may have discovered a new form of ancient humans known as large head people. So this is in December of 2024. The jeweler jewel. Large Julu Ren. Large headed people. People. So they, they, they took like these skulls and tried to make like a, like a recreation of what they look like. And they look like these jacked looking hairy cave people. They look pretty badass. That's not her. She looks hot. They don't look anything like that. You wouldn't survive back then if you looked like that.
- [171:14]
Cameron Haynes
No.
- [171:14]
Joe Rogan
See if you can find like an image of what they recreated because the image looks pretty cool.
- [171:19]
Cameron Haynes
I was. So where does hunting videos fit in your YouTube algorithm?
- [171:23]
Joe Rogan
No, I watch those two. That's. I watch. You know, I watch all yours. Of course. I watch a lot of different. I was watching Remy's, some of Remy's videos last night. That one in the. The one right there. Yeah, they. There's a video of one standing up. See if you can find images. There's one that we looked at before with it. The dudes are standing up and he looks super. Yeah, that's it. It. So this super jacked God, hairy dude, thick ass bones. Yeah, Like Neanderthals. Like, they were way different than us. They were way more jacked than us.
- [171:57]
Cameron Haynes
He looks like a beast, doesn't he?
- [171:59]
Joe Rogan
You had to be to survive.
- [172:01]
Cameron Haynes
And he made an arrowhead. It looked like he had in his hand or something.
- [172:04]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, something, you know, I mean, Neanderthals, they did art, you know, they made cave art. Some of the cave art they know for sure was Neanderthals. And some of it is pretty slightly different rendering. Whoa. That's what they look like. Fred Flintstone, bro. Those things would have fucked us up. Imagine that guy in the ufc. You'd be like, oh, Jesus. Imagine the guy on the right has to fight the guy on the left. Are you fucking kidding me?
- [172:27]
Cameron Haynes
Not good.
- [172:28]
Joe Rogan
So this is like this big dense. It's kind of weird that we survived. Especially if you look at some of those marathon runners. Like, imagine those people survive while that thing's around. Those things. Probably eight hate people. Like, look at. That's what they think they looked like.
- [172:43]
Cameron Haynes
God, yeah, Just. That'd be rough.
- [172:46]
Joe Rogan
Super dense giant jacked human beings. That one in the corner was walking to the right. Far right. Keep. Yeah, look at that. Like, that's what they think they look like. Yeah, that. Imagine you walk through the woods. You see that dude there?
- [173:02]
Cameron Haynes
That's. That's where. What is fascinating, though, is like, that's what I do like about the endurance stuff that we're doing is those people. Do you imagine how far they can get in a day?
- [173:12]
Joe Rogan
Oh, yeah. Probably hundreds of miles.
- [173:14]
Cameron Haynes
And so nowadays we're so far the other way.
- [173:18]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [173:18]
Cameron Haynes
Where if you. If you walk a mile, you've done something.
- [173:21]
Joe Rogan
Well, you're eating everything in the middle of the supermarket and you're watching video games, playing video games all day. Some kids aren't even playing video games. They're watching other people play video games.
- [173:33]
Cameron Haynes
That's what's like. It's pretty cool to think about. We're still making our bodies go, say this 250 mile race. I mean, that's kind of cool.
- [173:41]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it is cool.
- [173:42]
Cameron Haynes
But back then they probably did that all the time.
- [173:45]
Joe Rogan
All the time.
- [173:46]
Cameron Haynes
So we're. We're built for that.
- [173:48]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [173:48]
Cameron Haynes
You know what I mean?
- [173:49]
Joe Rogan
They probably had to.
- [173:51]
Cameron Haynes
Of course they had to. But like, human as humans as a species are built for endurance. So that's what I like about those events.
- [173:59]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [173:59]
Cameron Haynes
It's like this is what we're supposed to be doing.
- [174:01]
Joe Rogan
Well, persistence hunting, you know, that's Pretty crazy.
- [174:05]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [174:05]
Joe Rogan
Well, you just chase an animal down because animals don't sweat and people do, so you can't outrun them in a sprint. But if you just keep chasing them, eventually they die.
- [174:16]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. Stay on them, and then you just.
- [174:17]
Joe Rogan
Stab them when they're out of breath and you eat them.
- [174:20]
Cameron Haynes
You got to be either an open country where you keep eyes on them or be able to track them really well.
- [174:25]
Joe Rogan
Isn't that crazy that that was a strategy that humans employ? Just chase them until they run out of. They can't.
- [174:30]
Cameron Haynes
They still run.
- [174:31]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, I think they still do it. I bet that's where some of the best marathon runners come out of.
- [174:36]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, for sure.
- [174:36]
Joe Rogan
You know.
- [174:37]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. It's a. Those. They're so good at tracking in Africa because of that. It's just like they can stay on those tracks with no blood or anything because, you know, that's. That's the name of the game. Keep your eyes on them.
- [174:48]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [174:49]
Cameron Haynes
And wear them out.
- [174:50]
Joe Rogan
That's what's always fascinating to me, how guys can just look at the ground and see footprints where I'm. I don't see.
- [174:57]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [174:57]
Joe Rogan
And some guys that are just really good at it, man.
- [175:01]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. I mean, they can. They can follow tracks like across just solid rock, and it's just looking at little scuffs. They can see little scuffs from the hooves. That's crazy. I've. I've been over there, you know, hunting quite a bit, and I would sit just as you just said, like, what are you seeing? And so I would ask them. It's. It's hard because they speak Swahili, so you got to. It's hard figuring it out. But I was there for three weeks one time, so I kind of got dialed in. But so I would ask, what are. What are we looking at here? What are you seeing? Or. It's just how grass. Grass will go a certain way, and then if it's not that certain way, it's because something made it. Something pushed it out of the way.
- [175:42]
Joe Rogan
Even if it's just a little bit of grass.
- [175:43]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [175:44]
Joe Rogan
You just, like, look for these moments.
- [175:46]
Cameron Haynes
Small little tells.
- [175:47]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [175:48]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. So it's like. Like being so. That's another reason why I love the mountains. Love being out. It's just. You have to be. So if you're going to be good at it, in tune with everything you have, you have to be sensitive to almost everything. That's how you can get within bow. Range of an animal and get it killed or find it after you've put an arrow in it. It's like you're just deciphering all this information. Some people are good, some people are, but mostly it's experience related. Those people have learned in Africa, have learned from the best trackers there are. We haven't had to be that good here, but I've wanted to develop that skill and just get better. But it's like it's noticing the little, the minute details.
- [176:32]
Joe Rogan
Someone had a really good argument. Do you remember who it was, Jamie, where they were talking about the invention of the bow and arrow and they were saying the odds of this happening simultaneously all over the world are, are very unlikely. And that what's much more likely is that someone developed that technology and was traveling and that when you go back to the earliest use of the bow, which I don't know when that was. Do you know when that was? Let's guess. What would you guess? How many thousands of years ago they figure out the bow and arrow?
- [177:02]
Cameron Haynes
Oh my. 3,000, I would say.
- [177:07]
Joe Rogan
I mean it has to be before pyramids. Yeah, the pyramids are 5,000 or 4,500. That's the conventional. I mean so many, so many people think it's older than that. Let's say 10,000, 10,000 years for the bow and arrow. So that means that someone had to be traveling because like the Native Americans had it, the Polynesians had it. Like everybody had it. Right. The Africans had it, like everyone had the bow and arrow. Europeans had it.
- [177:35]
Cameron Haynes
When was Mongolian lions.
- [177:37]
Joe Rogan
Well, that was the 1200s. The, the rise of Genghis Khan was like the 1200s. 1200s to the 1300s. Yeah, they had crazy. Yeah, they did 160 pounds. Yeah, they were people up with those bows. Yeah, those guys, they say that their skeletons were distorted. You know, like I'm talking about, like I'm, I'm trying to balance out my body because I'm pulling too much.
- [178:01]
Cameron Haynes
Forearm would get.
- [178:02]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, everything was jacked. Their shoulders, their back, everything was like toward torqued and twisted. What was the. So let's guess. What did we say? I said 10, 10,000 years, you said. I'm say five.
- [178:15]
Cameron Haynes
Okay.
- [178:16]
Joe Rogan
I believe what I just stumbled across is the earliest people known to have used bows and arrows were the ancient Egyptians who adopted archery in approximately 2800 BC. Okay, so roughly 4800 plus plus years ago. Roughly guessing. So how does it get to North America? How do those people get it? So if the Native Americans, if we have evidence of human beings living In New Mexico 22,000 years ago, when did they pick up the bow. Who got it to them? Because by the time Columbus came in the 1400s, they already had it. So where'd they get it? Who taught them that? That. Yeah, where'd they get it? Did they figure it out independently to put feathers as fletchings and to put a. Yeah, look at that cool picture from Egypt. Wow. That's crazy. Right? So were the Egyptians traveling all the way to. To North America? Like, who?
- [179:18]
Cameron Haynes
I don't know.
- [179:19]
Joe Rogan
Who figured it out first?
- [179:20]
Cameron Haynes
They have had some sick stuff, but the.
- [179:22]
Joe Rogan
Do you remember who it was, Jamie? I was looking. I was. I changed the question. So I went down the other. It was a fascinating conversation because I never considered it until they brought it up. They said, I don't think the bow and arrow just. He goes. I think that's technology that was shared, Which. Which is a great argument for world travelers.
- [179:41]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. Way before I was thinking about, was there land bridges that we don't know about? I don't know know.
- [179:46]
Joe Rogan
Well, there definitely was. If you go back 11,000 years ago, I mean, that's when people were walking across the Bering land bridge and.
- [179:55]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [179:55]
Joe Rogan
Michael Waddell. Oh, Michael Waddell. Was it him that was saying that? I believe so. Look, I'm wearing the same shirt. What's the odds?
- [180:01]
Cameron Haynes
Well, you guys. I know you guys are talking about, you know, Pope and Young went over on the boats and took. Remember, they took tubs of arrows.
- [180:10]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Because they're just slinging them, and they're.
- [180:12]
Cameron Haynes
Going to be gone for, like, what, seven months? Months.
- [180:15]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [180:15]
Cameron Haynes
And then Waddell had some great stories about talking to his wife about, hey, I'm gonna go hunting. Be back next year, you know, because it's, like, so long of a boat ride, man.
- [180:26]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah. Just the people getting in boats back then was so nuts.
- [180:30]
Cameron Haynes
I. I just know that, you know, Fred Bear has that quote, the history of. Of archery is a history of mankind. I always think of that. So as long as man's been around, we've had to kill. That archery equipment is.
- [180:43]
Joe Rogan
Well, it must have just completely opened up the door for having more kids, for being able to survive and feed your family. Because if you're just stabbing things, you got to get so close, and then you get an Adolato. Okay. How far can you throw that?
- [180:59]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [180:59]
Joe Rogan
But then if you got a bow, like, now, all of a sudden, all those over there are in trouble.
- [181:05]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [181:05]
Joe Rogan
You know, and they don't even know yet. Yet. They don't even know what to look out for. And there's Things whistling through the air. Contradictory information. Oh, what is this? The four waves of bow and arrow use in Northern America. North America. This occurred at 12,000. Whoa. 12,000. 12,000 years ago? Yeah. That's why I started going down this hole.
- [181:28]
Cameron Haynes
And so it's pretty bc then.
- [181:31]
Joe Rogan
I don't know. What. No, 12,000 years ago is 10,000 bc I think they found bows in different places.
- [181:36]
Cameron Haynes
Whoa.
- [181:37]
Joe Rogan
That's nuts. I don't know for sure. 12,000 years ago.
- [181:42]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. See the Alaska Peninsula.
- [181:44]
Joe Rogan
Right. So again, so 12,000 years ago, now it makes sense that people are walking. So people from Asia could walk over. I mean, maybe it was made in Asia.
- [181:53]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [181:54]
Joe Rogan
But. But 30,000. 30,000. I don't know what the evidence of that is. Sub Arctic. Sub Arctic. People first brought archery bow with them to North America from Asia, 30, 000 years ago.
- [182:08]
Cameron Haynes
Wow.
- [182:08]
Joe Rogan
Okay, so 30, 000 years ago, people were supposedly dumb as. And, you know, like, how are they figuring out how to make a stick? Fly through the air with a string.
- [182:18]
Cameron Haynes
And kill things with it.
- [182:20]
Joe Rogan
And kill things with it.
- [182:21]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [182:21]
Joe Rogan
And hunt. Mongolian people were the first to adapt. Adopt the bow in the southwestern region of what is now called the United States. Whoa. Mogalon. Not Mongolian. Mogalon. I don't even know who they are. 2,000 years ago.
- [182:37]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [182:38]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [182:39]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [182:40]
Joe Rogan
Just after. Jesus. 30,000 years ago is nuts. But it's like, how does that get all around the world? That's really interesting because it's not like there's a bunch of different versions of it.
- [182:53]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. Because the physical characteristics of this bow are strikingly in several respects. So it's like.
- [182:59]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, there's no. It doesn't say what that is. That's a recurve. No, I just mean, like, when they found her. Right, right, right, right.
- [183:07]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. I thought. I thought that they were saying that no matter where they found these bows, they were all very similar.
- [183:13]
Joe Rogan
They had the fletchings.
- [183:14]
Cameron Haynes
It goes to your point of. How did that information get around the world?
- [183:18]
Joe Rogan
How did they figure that out?
- [183:20]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [183:21]
Joe Rogan
First recorded use of Archie Butter Cook quite early in human history. Images from the Paleolithic and mesolithic cave paintings. 10,000 BC in Spain and France. To pick groups of simple silhouetted figures using the bow as both the weapon of combat and the hunt. See if you can find some of those images. The Methylik. Methylus. Mesolithic.
- [183:43]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. Okay.
- [183:44]
Joe Rogan
That's that one documentary. The Cave of Dreams. It's a Werner Herzog film. I think that's what it's Called. Is that you down there?
- [183:53]
Cameron Haynes
Looked like it. It.
- [183:54]
Joe Rogan
Whoa.
- [183:55]
Cameron Haynes
Isn't that sweet?
- [183:56]
Joe Rogan
That's crazy. Look at that one. Look at that one. Go to that one. That one right there.
- [184:00]
Cameron Haynes
Whoa.
- [184:02]
Joe Rogan
That's crazy. Seven thousand year old bow and arrow painting.
- [184:08]
Cameron Haynes
God.
- [184:09]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [184:10]
Cameron Haynes
That's what. You know, anytime I get those people in there for lift, run, shoot, and Wayne starts talking to him at the bow rack. He's just like showing him how to shoot a bow. And people are like, like, they get it. And he's like. Feels familiar, right? He goes, because that's, that's what man's always done. That's why it feels familiar. So it's like people who have never done it all of a sudden are like, yeah. They're like, oh, this, this stirs something up in them.
- [184:35]
Joe Rogan
It does resonate, right? It does resonate with your DNA.
- [184:39]
Cameron Haynes
Just me. It's just. You can tell, you know what I tell people?
- [184:43]
Joe Rogan
It's like, it's like, you know, when you catch a fish, like even when kids catch a fish. I remember when my daughter caught her first fish. The excitement is genetic. Oh, he got one. You got one.
- [184:52]
Cameron Haynes
Because how do you know you're supposed to be excited, right?
- [184:55]
Joe Rogan
Why are they exciting?
- [184:56]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [184:56]
Joe Rogan
Why, why is it exciting to catch a fish? But because it's programmed into your DNA from the time we were figuring out how to catch fish, that if you caught a fish, you get to live, you get to eat it, so you get a reward. Your body gets excited about catching that. That's that same feeling. And that's why people like when they can shoot something and it hits the spot.
- [185:16]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [185:16]
Joe Rogan
It's not like throwing a basketball through a hoop. That's kind of fun, but it doesn't have the same feeling.
- [185:22]
Cameron Haynes
No.
- [185:22]
Joe Rogan
There's a feeling of archery. When you hit something, it's like, oh, yes.
- [185:26]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah. You see an animal, you're like, I wonder if I could hit that with my arrow. Yeah, you just want to shoot at stuff.
- [185:30]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. While I was at the zoo the other day, I was sending you pictures.
- [185:33]
Cameron Haynes
I know. Yeah. I mean, I'm driving and I see horses, cows, whatever. And I'm like, I see cows legs forward. I'm like, oh, God, I could get an arrow right now. Right in the lungs there. Perfect. It's just, that's just what you. You kind of program your brain to. To see.
- [185:51]
Joe Rogan
Right. But it's also like the same drive that leads you to run all these miles to be at your best. And that also makes you concentrate on being accurate at archery all the time thinking about archery all the time. If you don't. Won't. You won't be as good as you can be. If you want to be as good as you possibly can be, you have to kind of think about that.
- [186:12]
Cameron Haynes
All encompassing. Yeah, all encompassing.
- [186:14]
Joe Rogan
Take over your brain.
- [186:16]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [186:17]
Joe Rogan
Imagine if you can get those people from back then. You're like, let me show you some.
- [186:21]
Cameron Haynes
I would love.
- [186:22]
Joe Rogan
It is called a hog Father.
- [186:25]
Cameron Haynes
I've wanted to go over, like, there's. There's these people that have. God, what tribe is that? That have an Instagram page? I think I've. They wore the red stuff, I think in Africa.
- [186:36]
Joe Rogan
I think I've sent you that.
- [186:38]
Cameron Haynes
I want to go and hunt with them. So. Yes, Maasai. I want to go over there so bad and just hang out.
- [186:45]
Joe Rogan
They would probably freak out and they saw your bow. Like, what are you doing?
- [186:48]
Cameron Haynes
I know when I went to Tanzania, I would just shoot it. Like, they'd put up like a buffalo quarter.
- [186:53]
Joe Rogan
The Hadza also do have the Hadza too. Yeah, There you go.
- [186:56]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [186:57]
Joe Rogan
That's the people that David Cho went over and hung out with. Right thought. 2.3 million followers. Whoa.
- [187:03]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah, that's not the one I was thinking.
- [187:06]
Joe Rogan
Interesting. Influencing. Yeah. There's an influencer. What's that lady doing there? That upper left lady? What's she doing with the Honza? Well, yeah. Let's wrap this up. Cam, your book, perfect title, Undeniable. It is a perfect title. Really is. I mean, that's one of the things that we always talk about. Like, you got to be undeniable. Yeah, it's perfect. Perfect. Perfect name.
- [187:27]
Cameron Haynes
I just think captures what we're trying to. To do in life.
- [187:33]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah. What everybody's trying to do in life. If you're really trying to do something, well, you know you're gonna have some haters. What's the best way to silence haters?
- [187:41]
Cameron Haynes
When.
- [187:41]
Joe Rogan
Be undeniable.
- [187:42]
Cameron Haynes
Be undeniable.
- [187:43]
Joe Rogan
So if you're talking shit, you just look like an idiot. You just look like a fool.
- [187:47]
Cameron Haynes
Here's what I've learned. This is gonna be. This is probably gonna hit pretty hard. I don't know if you've ever heard this before, but. But it pays to be a winner. No, I. Undeniable. To me, it's like the people I've had on, I've learned so much from. You're featured in the book. But it's like, what makes people undeniable. What allows people, regardless of what they do, to rise to the top. And it's there's certain characteristics of each person and what it is. It's like they have this overwhelming passion for whatever they're doing. Doing. It's like that's all they care about. It's all they think about. Rocky Marciano, Goggins, whoever. Whoever you know of. You think of, like a person's name doing something they're under. They've. Yeah, they're obsessed with whatever they're doing.
- [188:33]
Joe Rogan
Speaking of obsessed, I'm obsessed with getting something right. I don't think. I think the sagittal crest is actually the. The peak of the skull that gorillas have. I think I that up. I think there's a different word. I was looking for a different word for those cracks in the. The skull. It's not sagittal crest. I think the sagittal crest is that thing that separates, like, what a gorilla skull looks like versus a chimpanzee skull. There it is. Yeah, that's the sagittal crest. That's that ridge bone.
- [189:00]
Cameron Haynes
Yeah.
- [189:00]
Joe Rogan
So what is that? What are those lines called? Oh, it's a suture. That's right. That's right. That's what they call it. So there's a coronal suture, and then there's. The other one is that. Heads are weird. Imagine that's a person. I know how weird that is. See that? Weird. So that's what a normal person looks like. They got that weird line. Oh, that's what. So it's perennial foramen. So that's a sagittal suture. And then there's this other suture. What's that other suture called?
- [189:35]
Cameron Haynes
See that lambdoid on the left there?
- [189:37]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, lambdoid suture. And the sagittal suture. So that's what the sagittal is. The line that they're missing, the one that goes up the middle. That's. Look at that gorilla head in the lower right hand corner. Oh, cool. Gorillas almost have like a mohawk in their skull because they have these giant muscles for chomping on roots and.
- [189:56]
Cameron Haynes
And you'd never. If you hit that in the head, it wouldn't do anything.
- [189:59]
Joe Rogan
Laugh at you. Have you ever seen. They. There's a 3D image. We could end with this because people always say, how many people do you think it would take to be. To beat a gorilla? Well, guess what? It don't. It literally doesn't matter. So somebody made like, a rec. You know how they do, like, recreations? Like, let's find out. And so they showed what would happen. I just sent it to You, Jamie. They show what would happen if a hundred dudes tried to fight a gorilla. Spoiler alert. Start 100 dudes get up. Look at this. This is what it would look like.
- [190:37]
Cameron Haynes
Oh, my God.
- [190:39]
Joe Rogan
Like, the gorillas try to run. It just turns around, just starts people up.
- [190:43]
Cameron Haynes
Holy.
- [190:44]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. You got no chance.
- [190:46]
Cameron Haynes
Could you imagine taking a big right from that thing?
- [190:49]
Joe Rogan
I would watch the first couple dudes take a right, and I would take a left. I'll be like, see, I'm gonna. I don't think gorillas are gonna chase me.
- [190:56]
Cameron Haynes
You just gotta get his back.
- [190:57]
Joe Rogan
Nope.
- [190:59]
Cameron Haynes
If he did grab. Get on his back, he would just grab you with one arm and throw you fucking 50 yards.
- [191:05]
Joe Rogan
He would grab you and his grip would break your fucking rib cage. It would just. He would. His fingers would probably penetrate your skin and go right through to your organs. He's just. All these people up. Boom. Boom.
- [191:19]
Cameron Haynes
That guy took a couple in a row.
- [191:21]
Joe Rogan
The Russia's probably tried this already. They probably already had. Look at this. All these other guys like, oh, I'm gonna give it a shot. I'm gonna give it my best pay per view. Yeah. Why are these guys still there?
- [191:33]
Cameron Haynes
I don't know.
- [191:33]
Joe Rogan
Because they're being forced. Look, he's running, trying to blue ass hammer fist to hit that gorilla.
- [191:38]
Cameron Haynes
It's not. If you get your kind of bell rung a little bit and you're kind of dazed and then you're just standing.
- [191:43]
Joe Rogan
There, look how far everybody flies, too, when he hits him. Boom.
- [191:49]
Cameron Haynes
That would be a good one. End on. But here's what we really need to end on. Because last time, Endure was like, the number one seller, and they put it number seven or something on New York Times. So we need. Why was it we need number one? We. We deserve number one. We should be number one this time.
- [192:07]
Joe Rogan
You didn't get number one because of some weird shit. It's not because New York.
- [192:11]
Cameron Haynes
The New York Times bestseller list is an editorial.
- [192:15]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, that's what's weird.
- [192:16]
Cameron Haynes
If it just goes based on sales, Endure would have been up there, but they gave me number seven.
- [192:21]
Joe Rogan
So crazy. Just.
- [192:23]
Cameron Haynes
Just give me what I deserve.
- [192:25]
Joe Rogan
Why are you lying?
- [192:26]
Cameron Haynes
I don't know.
- [192:26]
Joe Rogan
If you're gonna have a top 10, why lie? You're lying. You can't decide that this one's a top 10 because it's made by a transgender person of color. Is it better?
- [192:36]
Cameron Haynes
I don't know if it helps me to call them out or.
- [192:39]
Joe Rogan
No, they're gonna you no matter what. But America will know. But on Amazon. That's not curated, right?
- [192:46]
Cameron Haynes
No, no.
- [192:46]
Joe Rogan
So that'll be sales. That'll be sales. That'll be. Be legit. So that's the one that should count.
- [192:51]
Cameron Haynes
But, yeah, I mean, the. The whole point also, I wanted to also end on. I wouldn't have had the success with those books if not for you. You wrote the forward to Endure. It made the New York Times bestseller list. You know as well as anybody, the next book, if you can say from the New York Times bestselling author of Endure, that just makes the next next one go crazy. So without you, this wouldn't have happened?
- [193:15]
Joe Rogan
Well, without you, I would have never been bow hunting, so.
- [193:18]
Cameron Haynes
And we wouldn't own archery country.
- [193:19]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, we wouldn't own archery country. All right, let's bring it home. Endure. It's out now.
- [193:24]
Cameron Haynes
It's out May 6th.
- [193:26]
Joe Rogan
May 6th.
- [193:26]
Cameron Haynes
No, no, endure's out.
- [193:28]
Joe Rogan
Oh, excuse me. Undeniable. Undeniable is out May 6th. Today is April 29th. So wait a week.
- [193:34]
Cameron Haynes
Tuesday.
- [193:35]
Joe Rogan
Did you do the audio version of it?
- [193:37]
Cameron Haynes
I did, Yes, I did.
- [193:38]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [193:39]
Cameron Haynes
It was tough, but people love it.
- [193:41]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, they do. They want it in your voice. It has to be. It has to be in your voice.
- [193:44]
Cameron Haynes
Well, Joe, thank you.
- [193:45]
Joe Rogan
My pleasure, brother. I love you to death. You're the best. All right, goodbye, everybody.