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Transcript1,387 lines
- [00:02]
Joe Rogan
Joe Rogan Podcast. Check it out.
- [00:04]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- [00:06]
Joe Rogan
Train my day.
- [00:07]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. We doing this?
- [00:15]
Joe Rogan
Yes. I'm glad you brought Echo Fish.
- [00:19]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You did not have to do that. I appreciate it.
- [00:22]
Joe Rogan
I love your channel, dude. I've spent countless hours watching your hilarious videos.
- [00:29]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
So cool that you've even found it.
- [00:31]
Joe Rogan
Well, you know, Gino told me about it a lot. Your brother Gino, who I've been friends with for years, told me about it a long time ago that you guys were doing this, and I was, like, really interesting. And then I watched him, like, this is fucking great. It's right up my alley.
- [00:45]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You would show clips all the time, and it would drive Geno nuts. And then finally it. It got named. Reggie Watts was here and he's like, you ever hear the Y Files? You guys are talking about moon landing shit. And you're like, what's that? And I don't know. A week or two later, Gina gets a text. Are you the Y Files?
- [01:03]
Joe Rogan
He didn't tell me the name of.
- [01:04]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It, but he was so excited.
- [01:06]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's a great show, dude.
- [01:08]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's like everything.
- [01:09]
Joe Rogan
I'm fascinated by. Anunnaki aliens, secret bases. How did you get involved with making a show like this? Is this something you've always been interested in?
- [01:21]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I mean, like, grew up. Art Bell.
- [01:23]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [01:23]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Dad.
- [01:24]
Joe Rogan
There he is.
- [01:25]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
There he is. I mean, the goat. The Goat. Dad was an overnight cop, so always overnight radio, so it was always Dr. Demento. Yes, you remember him. And. And Art Bell. So kind of grew up with the weird stories, and it just got in the Twilight Zone. We watched his kids. It was, like, required watching from dad. The old black and whites, the classics. So that was always in there. So I'll skip 20 years. We had a podcasting studio in LA on Sunset. We were doing pretty well, hosting a lot of shows. Guys you knew, like when Covid hit Kill, Tony came and worked out of our studio. Jeremiah Metzger, all the guys didn't make any money, but it was a cool setup. But then they locked down the city impossibly, and we didn't really know what to do. Then they set fire to the city somehow. And the wife and I are racing down Hollywood Boulevard being chased by people with bats and boxes of Adidas. And we were like, this is. This went. This is too much. And we just started packing and that's it. We got out and I didn't know what to do. So I'd been working in showbiz, not super successfully, like, on the cusp. But I've been a professional host, editor, producer, writer for TV. So I was like YouTube, easy. I'm a natural. So I started the channel talking about science and weird stuff. And it was the hardest thing I ever did. It was, it was like impossible to do. And I started out like, following all the consultants, High energy smash, the like be a YouTuber top 10 list. And I did that for a little while. It's like, ah, no one's watching. This feels stupid. And then I just, I said, fuck it, let me just talk about the shit I want to talk about. So I, I think I. The first like good one was Operation High Jump. You know, Admiral Byrd goes down Antarctica with a, with a armed fleet, supposedly looking for a Nazi UFOs and it's a six month mission and in like a few days they have to turn back and it's crazy stuff. So I did that story and I got a, you know, I think I got 50,000 views.
- [03:27]
Joe Rogan
I don't think I saw that one.
- [03:29]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's an old one.
- [03:30]
Joe Rogan
What happened in Operation High Jump?
- [03:31]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
All right, Admiral Byrd goes down. This is just after the war. Remember the Nazis were fleeing to South America, so mostly Argentina. So the Nazis had established or tried to establish a base in Antarctica. That's true. It's Neuschwabenland now. People say they were trying to build a Nazi base and all that stuff. They were really just looking for a whaling station to get oil. So Hitler didn't want to rely on outside sources. So anyway, after the war they go down there. We still don't really know specifically why. It was supposed to be just to see how our aircraft would operate in cold weather. That was what they said. But this was a fleet that was armed to the teeth, like super, like armed. The first helicopters were there, destroyers. So they go down there. It's supposed to be a multi month mission, maybe six months. They get down there and in like a matter of weeks, maybe even fewer, they just bail. And no one really knows why. There's a press contingent there, no one knows what's going on. And Admiral Byrd starts giving these weird interviews. And the first one was in Spanish, it might have been either Argentinian or Brazilian newspaper. And he talks about how there could be these craft that attack the United States from the Poles and craft that can fly pole to pole and people were like, what is, what's that? And just sparked this crazy stuff. And you can hear him talking about these things. So highjump goes down there to look for stuff. We don't really know why they left.
- [05:03]
Joe Rogan
Admiral Byrd was talking about these crafts.
- [05:05]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Admiral Richard E. Byrd, this famous guy, flew the North Pole like a super badass. He was, on paper, the commanding officer, but he preferred to just fly his plane and do stuff. So the legend is they get down there, Admiral Byrd takes his plane, starts flying across Antarctica and sees patches of green. He doesn't. Can't believe it. And he's on the radio saying, I'm seeing this rolling hills, sun is shining. He keeps flying. It gets greener and greener. And then he's like, I just saw woolly mammoths, woolly mammoths grazing in the green. And he keeps going. And he's on the radio and then he's talking. I'm seeing all this stuff. The sun is bright, and then radio contact goes out. He's flying and flying. Suddenly, he's engulfed in light and he doesn't know where he is. The green is behind him. He's just flying in light, just trying to get his bearings. And then up beside him, two flying saucers just kind of next to him, almost like, you know, the F16 trying to wave you down. Two flying saucers. And he looks over and they have swastikas on them. And he's like, oh. So he's on the stick and he feels the stick shaking, and then the stick just goes dead. And then he goes down with the UFOs and they just land into a cavern in the hollow Earth. Right. So that's how that happens. And they take Admiral Byrd out, and they're tall aliens with swastikas on their.
- [06:31]
Joe Rogan
Craft, on the Craftsman, like the ancient symbol.
- [06:36]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I don't know. Which would be reversed. Right.
- [06:38]
Joe Rogan
Well, I think there was a bunch of different versions. I think the Nazi one was, like, kind of tilted.
- [06:43]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes.
- [06:44]
Joe Rogan
But there was a bunch of the Hindu ones and a lot of the.
- [06:46]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Japanese ones for thousands of years.
- [06:49]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [06:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
A positive symbol of life and prosperity. We don't know how they were oriented because I debunked all this. I'm telling you the legend because that's kind of my format. I get you excited.
- [07:01]
Joe Rogan
Would you explain that to people? You get everybody all jazzed up, and at the end, you kind of.
- [07:05]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I get so much heat for it.
- [07:07]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. It's fun.
- [07:08]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And I watch the numbers, like, as soon as I say, but is it true? Like, everyone's done. No one wants to know the truth. No one wants to know.
- [07:15]
Joe Rogan
They want to know fun.
- [07:17]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And then I'll get the hate mail. You ruined it for me.
- [07:19]
Joe Rogan
So what is the truth?
- [07:21]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The truth is a lot of that comes from Admiral Byrd's diary, which was discovered years later, which was not his diary. Oh, right.
- [07:29]
Joe Rogan
Horseshit.
- [07:30]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Horseshit. And he, he flew the North Pole, not the South Pole. But here's the interesting thing. He was in a single man aircraft that only had so much fuel. He was. Which can only fly for a little bit. He was out of radio contact for three hours. Nobody knows where he went.
- [07:48]
Joe Rogan
What was his take on it?
- [07:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
We don't really know. That's kind of.
- [07:52]
Joe Rogan
So it's just he went radio silent for three hours. The legend grew.
- [07:55]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's like he did that interview as soon as they got back. And then something must have happened because he got real quiet. But he would go on TV and he would talk. But the pole to pole thing was he was just warning that the poles are a vulnerable space. Like, we need to keep an eye on the North Pole because if there's a base on north or South Pole, you can attack from there. So let's keep an eye on. That was kind of his point.
- [08:17]
Joe Rogan
The Antarctica situation is very strange because I don't know if you ever saw the Sean Ryan show where he talked to this guy that worked with the neutrino detector down there and he was, yeah, have you seen that?
- [08:30]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I haven't seen Sean do it, but I know the guy.
- [08:32]
Joe Rogan
And the guy was saying that it's not just a neutrino detector. It's a direct energy weapon that can cause earthquakes. And this episode is brought to you by Zip Recruiter. Summer jobs can be extremely rewarding. You can learn a lot about yourself and what you want. And there are some pretty unique jobs out there. From lifeguards and camp counselors to construction, dog walking, mule packers and more. There's a lot of options if you have the skills. On the flip side, if you're hiring this summer, it might be tough to find the right person with the right qualifications before your competitors. Unless you use ZipRecruiter. Try it for free now at ZipRecruiter.com Rogan why should you use ZipRecruiter? It's going to make hiring for the season astronomically more manageable and fast. Its powerful matching technology does a deep dive to find the right candidates for the role as soon as you post it. And when you find someone you like, the invite to apply feature helps you connect ASAP. Gear up for summer with ZipRecruiters high speed hiring tool CY4 out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Just go to this exclusive web address right now to try ZipRecruiter for free. ZipRecruiter.com Rogan Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com.com Rogan ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire this is like the Dews.
- [10:05]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The US has always been fascinated directors. That's where that, like the HAARP conspiracies come from, all of that. And if. If you don't know what HARP is, that's the High Altitude Aurora Research Project. It's just this array of antennas in Alaska that's built by the US Government to study the ionosphere. But for some reason, it cost hundreds of millions of dollars. And when you look at it, you're like, where'd the money go? It's like a building's a box and it's a bunch of antennas. Where I'm getting at is this is an array that can ionize parts of the atmosphere. So I did an episode on Project Bluebeam, which is a conspiracy about how the United nations or the shadow government will create these holograms in the sky, and that will force one world government. We can get into it if you want to.
- [10:57]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [10:57]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
But I kind of debunk it, saying holograms need a substrate. You know, you need clouds. Glass is really what you need. But then the technology has gotten to the point where you can ionize atmosphere and create things in the atmosphere. So something like HAARP conceivably could create something up there.
- [11:22]
Joe Rogan
Something visual.
- [11:23]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Something visual. And I've heard people say that, you know, the UAPs, UFOs, may not be real. They could just be holograms for some reason.
- [11:31]
Joe Rogan
I heard that too. Yeah. Or a combination of many different things.
- [11:36]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes.
- [11:36]
Joe Rogan
I think there's probably a lot of different factors that people are seeing. You know, I was watching a video the other day. I'm not sure if it's real, but I put it on my Instagram anyway, on my. My story, because it was just fun of ball lightning, which is real. But this ball lightning was moving around a parking lot, and it was extraordinary. Is this one.
- [11:54]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Oh, yes, the plasma lasers that the Navy apparently has the ability to make some stuff like this 3D images in the air. And yeah, they can also make them make sounds somehow, too, which is an interesting.
- [12:05]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Well, because you're just vibrating air molecules. So in Project Blue Beam, the energy comes from a satellite array. So can satellites do that yet? If it can, they won't tell us.
- [12:17]
Joe Rogan
But that could be a way where you could throw off the enemy or freak people out and pretend that there's some sort of an alien invasion. It's really just a hologram.
- [12:26]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Really just a hologram. And that's, you know, that's. Bluebeam is supposed to get rid of religion. Because what will happen, according to the legend, is the. The hollow rims will manifest as whatever deity is dominant in the area, whether it's Jesus or Buddha, whomever. And atheists will see different things and people will just freak out. Nationalism will go away.
- [12:50]
Joe Rogan
Atheists will see different things. Like why?
- [12:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Because according to the legend, the array or the technology will manipulate your mind. Again, HAARP has been accused of this because you can manipulate someone's mind with electromagnetic frequencies at the right frequencies, so they could just tell you to see.
- [13:08]
Joe Rogan
Something like that specific.
- [13:11]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That specific.
- [13:12]
Joe Rogan
Allegedly.
- [13:13]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Now, I debunk a lot of it because the story originally came from a Canadian journalist named Serge Monast. Fascinating figure. He comes out with this theory that's bonkers. And then the Canadian government takes his kids away because they're homeschooled. He gets harassed by authorities. He gets hauled off to jail for spreading disinformation. Dies of a heart attack the next day. So then of course, that's just like, that lights the fuse. So now it's like, what. What did he find? So, and he talked very publicly about all of this. So that's, that's supposedly how it happens, is they manipulate our minds, they show us what we want to see. And then it's not like we won't resist authority, we'll beg for it. We'll just beg to take. Take our freedom, take our rights, keep us safe.
- [13:58]
Joe Rogan
Whoa. Because something huge is happening and we need to consolidate.
- [14:03]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I feel like that's what would happen.
- [14:06]
Joe Rogan
Well, I'm sure you've seen the Hal put off thing. Did you see when Hal put off George Bush during his presidency, they floated the idea of disclosure. Did you ever see this?
- [14:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I didn't see it, but I know Hal's worked very well.
- [14:20]
Joe Rogan
So what Hal said was he and several other scientists were brought aboard and they were given a task of writing pros and cons to disclosure. What are the things that are going to be disrupted and what are the things that's going to benefit society? And attach a numerical value to each thing. And all the scientists at the end of the day showed that the numerical value for Kahn was far higher, like it was going to cause much more disruption than it would be beneficial. And so they decided not to disclose. But what they were telling how was this? Was what? What you were planning for was retrieved crafts not of this world and biological entities that the United States government is in possession of. Should we disclose this?
- [15:06]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. I think I've definitely heard that. I don't know if. Is that connected to the Brookings Report? If I'm getting that correct.
- [15:12]
Joe Rogan
Which one's that?
- [15:13]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I forget when it would even come out. Here's all the CYAs. I'm an expert on nothing. I don't know anything. I tell stories.
- [15:20]
Joe Rogan
Me too.
- [15:21]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Okay. How can you talk about Planet Serpo if you've never been? Look, I've just. I just like this. I just.
- [15:30]
Joe Rogan
All due respect, that's gonna go on forever.
- [15:33]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Forever?
- [15:33]
Joe Rogan
You've never been?
- [15:35]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Never been. I hope he's okay. Douglas Murray's a lot of fun.
- [15:39]
Joe Rogan
Oh, he's great.
- [15:41]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah. So I'm not an expert at anything, so I don't know when Brookings was, but it was the same thing. It was a recommendation from the government that.
- [15:47]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Look, it was a 1960.
- [15:48]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
1960.
- [15:49]
Joe Rogan
Ah, same thing.
- [15:50]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Well, I don't know about the exact.
- [15:51]
Joe Rogan
Same thing, but same concept.
- [15:53]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Studies of the implications of peaceful space activities for human affairs. Commissioned by NASA and created by the Brookings Institute collaboration. Long range study.
- [16:02]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Same result. Don't do it.
- [16:04]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, I think they're probably right. But also, I want to know.
- [16:08]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Well, that's. That's put. Puts us in a pickle, I think, is. Let's say it's real. I want to know, too, but I don't want the Chinese to know. And I definitely don't want Iran to know. So. I understand.
- [16:24]
Joe Rogan
Why do you not want them to know? Maybe we could all get along if we realize that there's actual aliens that are visiting us. I mean, wasn't that the Ronald Reagan speech in front of the un? You've seen that, right? Sure, yeah, the famous speech.
- [16:36]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
But wasn't the sdi? Part of that speech is, we'll all get along, but we're gonna have laser weapons in space, just in case we don't. Wasn't that same. It might not have been, but it was about that same time. And that was all smoke and mirrors, right?
- [16:49]
Joe Rogan
The Star wars thing was fake, right?
- [16:51]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Couldn't get it to work. Yeah, it was all fake. So maybe we'll all get along. Boy, that sounds nice. But Iran produces brilliant people.
- [17:00]
Joe Rogan
So.
- [17:01]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Intelligent, great engineers, doctors, all of that. But the government is bananas.
- [17:05]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [17:06]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
So? I mean, you don't want to have brilliant scientists working like that. I mean, we had brilliant scientists working for dictators. In the past. And it was not awesome.
- [17:14]
Joe Rogan
Right. Like the Nazis.
- [17:17]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's who I mean. Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean.
- [17:20]
Joe Rogan
So, yeah, it's really sketchy if they get the technology right. Well, this is what Hal Puthoff said. He said that the government of the United States has at least 10 of these things. And I said, well, other governments have them. He said, yes. And I said, do they have similar numbers? He's like, we believe so. So they don't know. So essentially what he was kind of alluding to is that there's basically like a kind of Manhattan Project to try to back engineer these things. And whoever figures it out first is going to have a massive advantage.
- [17:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right.
- [17:53]
Joe Rogan
And it would be nice if it was us.
- [17:55]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It would be nice. Hal Puthoff has been connected to a lot of disinformation campaigns. I love the guy in his work, but he has been connected to information campaigns with known disinformation.
- [18:07]
Joe Rogan
Think about what, what subjects about disclosure.
- [18:10]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Like, you heard the name Richard Doty?
- [18:11]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [18:12]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Okay. So, I mean.
- [18:14]
Joe Rogan
You want some coffee?
- [18:15]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah, let's have some coffee. I'm off booze right now.
- [18:20]
Joe Rogan
Forever.
- [18:20]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No, not for Cheers. I just needed a break. It was becoming a little bit.
- [18:25]
Joe Rogan
Me too.
- [18:25]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Like a habit. You too?
- [18:27]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, I've been off for two and a half months. Maybe even a little more now. Yeah, I. I just for. I just decided one day I'm done and then I feel great.
- [18:37]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Feel better.
- [18:38]
Joe Rogan
Oh, my God.
- [18:39]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Think clearer. Wake up. Feeling better.
- [18:40]
Joe Rogan
I have a nightclub, so I'm. I'm at my nightclub, my comedy club, all the time, and, you know, everybody's buying shots and you want a beer, you want this, that after a while you're like, God, I feel like shit.
- [18:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah, you do.
- [18:51]
Joe Rogan
You know, But I'm at. It's like the illusion is you won't have fun. I'm having the same amount of fun. It's so much fun.
- [18:57]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Of course I'm funnier because I know what I'm talking about.
- [19:02]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [19:02]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And I'm not embarrassed the next day.
- [19:04]
Joe Rogan
You just. It just doesn't kill your inhibitions. But that's. It's overrated.
- [19:09]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It is.
- [19:10]
Joe Rogan
It's fun. I've had a good time boozing, but yeah, enough.
- [19:14]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I'm allowed to go back at the first of the month. Okay. I just need it. You need to quit vices once in a while, if anything. Just to prove that you can.
- [19:23]
Joe Rogan
Yes. Yeah. It's a good thing. Just to prove that. Doesn't have his hooks in you.
- [19:28]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right? Yeah, I can quit Whenever I want, it's. I know, but can you.
- [19:32]
Joe Rogan
I've taken a few days off of social media and I always feel better, but I always go right back in.
- [19:36]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I don't, I don't know why. I hardly ever look at it.
- [19:39]
Joe Rogan
It's just a massive distraction. Like I don't read anything about myself, but I'm always. But more so I'm always looking at. But I find a lot of interesting things too, especially on Instagram, but more so now than ever. My screen time on my phone is dedicated to YouTube. It's like when I come home, especially at the end of the night, come back from the club. I'm tired. I want. Nonsense. I want Bigfoot.
- [20:04]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Same. I don't want to think too hard.
- [20:07]
Joe Rogan
I want, you know, I want, you know, Bob Lazar. I want Bigfoot. I want, you know, ancient civilizations, just me and the dog, watching tv. Yeah. You know, everyone's asleep. That's my favorite.
- [20:22]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Because no booze for me doesn't mean no gummies. So a half a gummy and a Bigfoot episode. I'm having a great time.
- [20:29]
Joe Rogan
That's the one that I wish was real, but I'm 99% sure it's horseshit.
- [20:33]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Same.
- [20:34]
Joe Rogan
But I also wonder, I wonder, like, I wonder if under certain conditions it's real. Like, this is my thought. This is going to sound squirrely. I think under heightened states of anxiety and fear when you're alone in the woods, maybe it's possible that the barrier between dimensions is slippery and you can see things that you would ordinarily never see. Like it might not even be as simple as this is a biological creature that lives here on earth with us, but no one's ever found a body. It might be weirder than that. It might be these are some sort of hominid from somewhere else that can can appear. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Our great site joerogan.com was built using Squarespace. But did you know that Squarespace also gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place? Whether you're doing stuff like using the built in appointment scheduling for consultations or even email marketing tools to pull off events. Squarespace has all that, plus invoicing and online payment tools that make conducting your business a breeze. Try it free@squarespace.com and use squarespace.com rogan to save 10% on your first purchase.
- [22:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Native American legends say exactly that. That it's this creature that lives between worlds. And the same with giants as well. They have the legends of the red haired giants that were chased west.
- [22:10]
Joe Rogan
I'm glad we're getting to that.
- [22:11]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Getting giants.
- [22:12]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, because the giants thing is weird. When you go into the story and I watched your episode on giants, I loved it.
- [22:17]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Maybe it was the Malta Smithsonian. Oh that was. Yeah, that was G.E. kincaid in the Smithsonian. Cover up. Yeah, Grand Canyon. That's a good story.
- [22:25]
Joe Rogan
Well, the whole Grand Canyon thing is bananas. Like there's areas of the Grand Canyon you cannot explore, you cannot go, you.
- [22:33]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Cannot fly over and you can't fly under the rim. Yet when you go to those bad places, suddenly a white plane flies over under the rim. Black helicopters show up. I showed in my episode, I show the black helicopter showing up. They do show.
- [22:48]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, like they are protecting something.
- [22:51]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Something.
- [22:52]
Joe Rogan
It's not as simple as this is a dangerous area because you can go to any dangerous area you go to.
- [22:57]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Just to the normal tourist area. It's like be careful, people fall. Two people a year fall.
- [23:02]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Someone fell recently. Yeah. An influencer of course, taking a selfie. But the Grand Canyon, there, there's been these crazy stories of people finding these like Egyptian, these caverns with like Egyptian artwork and hieroglyphics and these stories of artifacts that have been removed from there.
- [23:27]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
So the story is it shows up, I believe in like the Phoenix Gazette, it's 1903 or so and the explorer is G.E. kinkaid and he's going down, he's looking for gold deposits or whatever. This is just before Teddy Roosevelt made the Grand Canyon a preserve, he was a naturalist. So he finds these steps that are clearly man made. He follows the steps up and there's a cave and he goes in there and he describes hieroglyphics that look Egyptian but are not quite. He finds a statue that he describes as like Buddha, like not Egyptian, not human, but sort of like Buddha. And all these weapons, shields, gold, all sorts of stuff. He keeps going. He finds a deserted city in the caves and all these tunnels and caverns go everywhere and he's trying to map everything. He comes out and he goes back to town and he gathers together a group that we're going to go, we're going to go find the stuff again and people are excited about it and a couple of weeks go by and everyone's gathered to go on the expedition. He never shows shows. The expedition goes nowhere and that's really the last we've heard of it.
- [24:30]
Joe Rogan
Well, and is there any photographs or anything?
- [24:34]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No, there never is of this stuff.
- [24:36]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [24:36]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Just descriptions and just a great story.
- [24:39]
Joe Rogan
Well, the great part of the story is the fact that you actually can't go there. And just the idea that there's an area where the military is protecting people from being foolish, that doesn't make any sense.
- [24:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Nobody asks why.
- [24:52]
Joe Rogan
Right?
- [24:53]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Nobody asks why. It really bothers me about that story in all of these, whether it's disclosure, whatever. I don't hear anyone asking why. Well, they won't let us. Well, who's they? Someone's in charge of stuff that's not the President or Congress. So who is it?
- [25:11]
Joe Rogan
Is it possible there's some sort of a government installation down there somewhere?
- [25:16]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, it's all gonna be woo, woo, conspiracy stuff or it's real. Or GE Kinkaid found something and someone got to him.
- [25:24]
Joe Rogan
But if GE Kinkaid found something, why would they want to hide some ancient civilization discovery, particularly in the early 1900s? Like why? For what reason?
- [25:35]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I don't know why Graham Hancock is marginalized now.
- [25:39]
Joe Rogan
Right, but that. Wouldn't you think that there's like less of a grip on that stuff in the 1900s, early 1900s?
- [25:46]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes, I would think so. My guess would be treasure and money. That would be. My guess is it shows up in the paper, the government goes down there. Like, there's a lot of stuff down here. Let's grab it, send it to the Smithsonian, who keeps 99% of the stuff under wraps. They have, you know, a billion items that nobody can see, and then that's the end of it.
- [26:06]
Joe Rogan
But what the fuck? Which I would love to know the official reason. See if you can Google. Is there an official reason why you're not allowed to go to certain areas of the Grand Canyon?
- [26:16]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
They use a VPN there, brother.
- [26:19]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
The story. I was looking at a article about the original article and it says that the two guys mentioned might not have even existed.
- [26:26]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right.
- [26:28]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
There's no evidence of them.
- [26:29]
Joe Rogan
G.E.
- [26:30]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Kincaid and another guy named S.A. jordan.
- [26:32]
Joe Rogan
Oh, so it might be just a story that someone printed. Some horseshit I've heard.
- [26:36]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
When I was looking into one of these things before, I found something explaining that back in the like early 1900s, when newspapers were a really popular thing to read, I don't know if it was like a game or if there was actual prizes people would play or like amongst themselves to try to get fake stories printed. If you could get the craziest story printed, you win like 500 bucks.
- [26:55]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Or. I might be wrong, but I think Jordan was connected to the Smithsonian. At least according to.
- [27:01]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
I pulled this from the Smithsonian debunk, which I Mean, obviously they would, if this is the way we're going to go with it. But them debunking this. And they gave two links, one to the original 1909 article and one to a 2008 update. And that's where I was pulling that.
- [27:15]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I don't trust the Smithsonian. They're exempt from all kinds of stuff. Yeah, well, like, there's a law passed not too long ago that if you have Native American artifacts that are important to that culture, especially burial artifacts, they must be returned. Unless you're the Smithsonian they're allowed to hold on to, then you can make a case that you don't have to give it back.
- [27:33]
Joe Rogan
How do they have so much power?
- [27:35]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's a government agency.
- [27:37]
Joe Rogan
Smithsonian's a government. Oh, I didn't even know. I thought it was a private agency. So there's no official story as to why this area of the Grand Canyon is off limits.
- [27:46]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
For your safety zone, they call it. Yeah, it's all I can find.
- [27:51]
Joe Rogan
Weird. That's fucking weird that this story comes from the very area that's forbidden. That's fucking weird, I think. What are the odds?
- [28:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I don't believe in coincidences. So there are a lot of these stories come from places you just can't go.
- [28:07]
Joe Rogan
Has anybody tried to hike in all.
- [28:09]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The time or rafting? Yeah.
- [28:11]
Joe Rogan
Did they get busted and.
- [28:13]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Busted, yeah, and arrested, really? You could find. You could find online. I wish I knew the names of a team that went up there. That's who found the black helicopters. And I use them in the video, and I credit them. So you can find their videos. They're up there for an hour, hour and a half, trying to find stuff. And what they found up in that forbidden zone is anchored into the ground. A giant hook or like a loop. Like, what would you use that for? And that would be to rappel down. That's the only reason that would be there. There's no explanation for. What is this. They also found artifacts from that era, from the early 1900s, artifacts that people were there. So it's possible that they repelled that. Like, they might have been standing right above that entrance. And there are reverse angles of that rock face that look a little weird. It could be pareidolia, but it.
- [29:05]
Joe Rogan
What's pareidolia?
- [29:06]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Pareidolia is the. Is the mind's ability to see objects in random noise. You know, it's something we evolved to, you know, to see predators in the forest. That's why if you see a cloud that looks like an Abraham Lincoln, right?
- [29:20]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [29:21]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's not Abraham Lincoln, you know, it's pareidolia. But debunkers will always fall on pareidolia. So, like, the real believers, they hate that word.
- [29:31]
Joe Rogan
God. That would be. Imagine everything would have to rewritten if they found some evidence of a lost civilization with no connection to any known civilization that was advanced, that was living in the Grand Canyon.
- [29:46]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Did you ever think about going to the Grand Canyon to go and just be an outlaw and go see.
- [29:54]
Joe Rogan
How would you get in, though? I mean, if they have black helicopters and they're scanning the sky or scanning the ground with some sort of a drone or a plane.
- [30:05]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
We go in, we live.
- [30:07]
Joe Rogan
Are you planning something?
- [30:08]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No, no, no. Hold on. What should we do? I don't have a contract. All right, so this is. It's already dangerous, me sitting here, but I got your back if I go. Yeah, because even if they drag out, questions have to be posed.
- [30:26]
Joe Rogan
Right. Why couldn't I go there?
- [30:28]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
What did he do wrong? Well, he violated this area. Okay, well, how come?
- [30:32]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Well, when you think about how dangerous the Grand Canyon is overall, there's not a safe area. It's literally a canyon. You could fall at any of a million spots along the way to your death.
- [30:46]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Have you been there?
- [30:47]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [30:49]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's incredible. Incredible. You couldn't paint a better picture. But as you get closer to that edge, you can feel your. Your amygdala going. Oh, back up.
- [30:58]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [30:58]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Like it's seriously dangerous.
- [31:00]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, yeah. God. The problem is, I want to believe with all these things. Yeah, same. Most people enjoy your show, want to believe. That's why it's so fun.
- [31:12]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And I don't believe in most of the stuff I talk about, but when I approach a story, I try to find as much evidence as I can to support it. And I also wanted to find the other side so that what we're left with is some truth. And not all stories can be fully debunked. And I've had my mind flipped a couple of times. You know, crop circles, hollow moon, some really crazy shit have flipped me around.
- [31:36]
Joe Rogan
Crop circles is a weird one.
- [31:38]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
So weird.
- [31:38]
Joe Rogan
It's a weird one because when I first saw them, I'm like, what is that? And then I saw that these guys were doing them with boards and string. I was like, oh, it's just people being silly. And then I watched a whole documentary about how the energy that bent these things over caused these nodes to explode as if they had been cooked in a microwave.
- [31:59]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Correct.
- [32:00]
Joe Rogan
What? And then you find out that the actual Stalks are woven together.
- [32:05]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Correct.
- [32:05]
Joe Rogan
It's not that they're pressed down, they're woven together. And that these are complex geometric designs that would have taken people weeks to map out. And there's no footprints leading up to it. There's no roads, no machinery, no evidence of any use of any kind of machinery. And these things appear like that, like people have flown over an area and then flown back an hour or two later. And there's immense football field size, perfect geometry that no one can explain how it was created.
- [32:40]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Correct. So the nodes in the stalks, the node is like a knuckle on your fingers. So these. Those are there for phototropism to bend toward light. So what you're talking about is these things are bent over. They're bent over at right angles. It can only be done with high energy. But also around these crop circles, they're finding microscopic metallic spheroids in around the circles. And that's not conspiracy theory. They're finding them. And there are these magnetic fields around the circles. And you can see videos online of people going into these crop circles, and their hands start to get red. Things are happening to them. So I went into crop circles thinking it was all guys with boards. But then when you watch people with boards making a crop circle, it's a mess. They can't do this. And you cannot bend the nodes of reeds and weave them together in a perfect. You can't do it. So that was. As I'm doing the research, I'm like, all right, 99% of them are fake. But there's this 1% that I cannot explain.
- [33:44]
Joe Rogan
The famous video where you see the orbs circling around the field in England, and then the crop circle slowly starts to emerge. Has that been debunked?
- [33:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Semi. It's controversial because the guy released that video. I don't know his name offhand, allegedly went to a visual effects house.
- [34:02]
Joe Rogan
Oh, boy.
- [34:03]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And released it. But they somehow put that thing together in a matter of hours, which is suspicious. So in my episode on it, I said, all right, here's what the skeptics say. But, you know, in the 1990s, to do that kind of VFX work. Cause it looks real. I don't know. To me, I'm on the fence about it.
- [34:23]
Joe Rogan
It's very convenient that they got the footage.
- [34:26]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It is. It is. Operation Blackbird was a famous operation in 1990 to try and capture the footage live by a great researcher named Colin Andrews.
- [34:37]
Joe Rogan
Oh, he's the guy that does the books on crop circles, right?
- [34:40]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes.
- [34:41]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, he's all in.
- [34:42]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
He's all in. And he got a lot of support for Blackbird. And not only did nothing happen, he was totally embarrassed by it. And it was all like, streaming live and a lot of people were invol. He's embarrassed. We find out later that while they're like, waiting for the circles to happen, just a few miles away, there's a top secret military operation doing whatever they're doing. He doesn't know why. And then he gets a knock on the door from someone, Men in Black, whoever it is, that first offers him money to stop his work, then threatens him with whatever threatens his family. And he doesn't know who this guy is. They go back and look at the tapes and he sees the guy in the background, like one of the TV crews. So the theory is some type of intelligence was embedded into Blackbird, made to discredit him. And that was kind of. That was kind of the end of Colin Andrews because he was a legit researcher at that point. Now he's. Now he's fringe and now he's pseudoscience. But I get into that in the episode. That was something I discovered. I never knew that there was intelligence involved. I didn't know that there was a military op, which is confirmed. It's wild.
- [35:48]
Joe Rogan
So do you think they discredited him on purpose?
- [35:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes.
- [35:51]
Joe Rogan
Interesting. To make the crop circle thing looks foolish, but, like, what is the crop circle thing? Like, what is the. Out of the believers. What is the best theory?
- [36:01]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The believers is that it's a way to message craft, or it's a landing site, or it's some type of communication.
- [36:11]
Joe Rogan
But why would they do it in wheat fields?
- [36:14]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I don't know. It doesn't make sense to me. If you have the technology just, you know.
- [36:18]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, pick up the phone.
- [36:20]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, there's better ways than just mowing wheat down. But I don't understand.
- [36:26]
Joe Rogan
Do you know the one about the. The Mandelbrot set?
- [36:29]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I've seen it, yeah.
- [36:31]
Joe Rogan
I think that one is really weird because I think it coincides with the fractal creation of the Mandelbrot set by these people that are into this kind of geometry and fractals, they're like, someone made the Mandelbrot set, which is essentially an infinite fractal of, like, spectacular design.
- [36:53]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And this is before Lorenz and the Lorenz attractor. I think it's before that, isn't it?
- [36:56]
Joe Rogan
I don't know.
- [36:57]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Before it was mainstream.
- [36:58]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, before it was mainstream, yes. And then when this thing appears and people like well, what is this design? And then they connect it to this Mandelbrot set, which is. Someone would have to have some very esoteric information.
- [37:13]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And it's the Mandelbrot set using Fibonacci numbers.
- [37:16]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [37:17]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And the fee. The golden ratio.
- [37:19]
Joe Rogan
That's accurate.
- [37:20]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's accurate down to inches.
- [37:22]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [37:22]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You can't do that.
- [37:25]
Joe Rogan
Well, maybe you can, but, like, how. And how long would it take and how much planning and how many people and what would you use? Like, what is the technology that we'd use to bend those things over that way and weave them? It's very weird stuff. It's weird because it's these. You know, the way these fractals work. It's this ratio in the. In the geometry is like they're specific sizes. This one is half the size of that one, which is half the size of that one. Just that. And it goes on and on forever. And when you see it all, see if you can find the Mandelbrot set.
- [38:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It'S maybe the most spectacular crop circle.
- [38:03]
Joe Rogan
It's weird. It's really weird because it's fucking enormous. Mm. You know, and it seems so stupid. Wow. There's a whole bunch of them. The Mandelbrot said is the one with the. Look like a heart above that one right there? Yeah, that's it. That's the Mandelbrot set.
- [38:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yep. And there's some other fractals there as well.
- [38:21]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
I was looking at an article. It says these two guys took on the challenge and did it for a TV show on the BBC.
- [38:25]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
They did. If you watch them do it, it's clumsy af.
- [38:29]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it doesn't look as good. Like. Like trying to find. I know they always say that these guys did it, but, like, you can't.
- [38:37]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Really see it there. But those flattened reeds, they're. They're woven together.
- [38:42]
Joe Rogan
With the. Some of the weirder ones. Go back to other crop circles. You had some other images before that. There's some other ones that. Those ones. Those spirals.
- [38:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right.
- [38:52]
Joe Rogan
Like that one right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is fucking wild.
- [38:56]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's wild.
- [38:56]
Joe Rogan
Like, this is multiple football fields, long and wide. So how. Make that one a little bigger, please.
- [39:04]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And one of these. I don't know if it's. That one in particular showed up right next to Stonehenge like a tennis ball throw away.
- [39:11]
Joe Rogan
That is crazy to not. First of all, if you're on the ground. All right. Just the measurements alone to make each one the equal distance between circles in the. Whatever, six different blades that you have that stem from the center, they're all the same distance, they're all the same size.
- [39:34]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The small circles are the ones that are most interesting because how hard is that to do?
- [39:39]
Joe Rogan
Right, right. And they're uniform. And it's like, what is that? What the fuck is that? And who's. If that is a hoax. It's so bizarre that it's only these two goofballs that were making really shitty ones with boards and strings. And yet there's hundreds, if not thousands of these. Like really complex ones.
- [40:03]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah, those exist. Those are the guys that are on. You can see them doing it live.
- [40:08]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, but those guys, there's no way they had enough time to do all these things.
- [40:11]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And it looked terrible. Yankee, look, he's just trampling it.
- [40:15]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. I mean, look, you can certainly make crop circles with a string and a board. You certainly can make crop circles. But you're. And you know, it always gets connected, like believing in aliens and everything else, but it's not. No one's even saying aliens. Like it could be some sort of energy from something that we possess, some. Something that humans possess that they somehow or another aim at these areas. Like, what is that one above it go? That one right there. Above, like right there. What the fuck is that thing? Look at that.
- [40:46]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
They are in the same count. 80% of them come from the same county in England.
- [40:50]
Joe Rogan
This is all also weird.
- [40:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Now, people correct me in the comments, but I believe that middle piece of geometry is a hypercube. Isn't it? Isn't that a four dimensional cube?
- [41:00]
Joe Rogan
I don't know.
- [41:01]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
A tesseract does look like it, but.
- [41:04]
Joe Rogan
Like, what the fuck? How long would that take? That seems like that would take a long time to do.
- [41:10]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Stonehenge is under constant surveillance and. And circles show up overnight.
- [41:15]
Joe Rogan
Very weird stuff.
- [41:17]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
There's an interesting conspiracy.
- [41:19]
Joe Rogan
What the fuck, dude?
- [41:20]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
To crop circles that we can get into later.
- [41:23]
Joe Rogan
Wiltshire has the most crop circles in England. Yes, and it's mostly in England too, which is also weird.
- [41:28]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And mostly in Wiltshire.
- [41:31]
Joe Rogan
Is there some sort of a theory by the kooks?
- [41:33]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Ley lines.
- [41:34]
Joe Rogan
Ley lines.
- [41:36]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That they're happening on these. These segments of energy that intersect.
- [41:40]
Joe Rogan
What is that black and white one? Jamie, click on that.
- [41:42]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
It's just a.
- [41:44]
Joe Rogan
No, no, no, no, no. The one. That one. What the is that? Wow.
- [41:51]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Wow. On a mountain.
- [41:53]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
It could be in sand. I think this is like sand dunes.
- [41:57]
Joe Rogan
Is that what that is?
- [41:58]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Circle 16.
- [41:59]
Joe Rogan
That's crazy.
- [42:01]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I've never seen that one. It's wild.
- [42:03]
Joe Rogan
I mean, just the amount of time that it would take to do these things. So ley lines. So this is the theory.
- [42:10]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's the theory. Have you heard about ley lines?
- [42:13]
Joe Rogan
Kind of.
- [42:13]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's this. This alleged grid of energy that circles the earth and almost like how magnetic fields work. And these energy lines have intersection points, and on these intersection points are things like Stonehenge, Giza.
- [42:30]
Joe Rogan
Whoa.
- [42:30]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
It's in snow on a mountain in France.
- [42:32]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [42:33]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Where are the tracks? In what? You know, it.
- [42:39]
Joe Rogan
Okay. What the is that?
- [42:42]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
So this is.
- [42:42]
Joe Rogan
No footprints, no tracks.
- [42:44]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Footprints right here.
- [42:45]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah, but that could be.
- [42:46]
Joe Rogan
That could be the people that discovered it, Right?
- [42:48]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Oh, this is the guy that did it, though.
- [42:49]
Joe Rogan
Oh, artist that did this.
- [42:51]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
These aren't crop circles. This is an artist doing it. That's kind of what I was trying to say.
- [42:55]
Joe Rogan
Incredible. An artist did that?
- [42:56]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah.
- [42:57]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Has the guy's name on that first picture we had.
- [42:58]
Joe Rogan
Amazing.
- [42:59]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Simon Beck.
- [43:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
So the artist angle is a conspiracy angle. There's a man named John Lundberg who was part of a group called Circle Maker, which is an art project and also a sociology experiment. He would make fake crop circles to see how people would react. Years later, Lundberg and some associates created a documentary called Mirage Men, which is an excellent documentary, and it's mostly about Richard Doty and his disinformation campaign on behalf of the Air Force to discredit the UFO community drove Paul Benowitz nuts. Bill Moore, who's the. Who's the guy who essentially brought Roswell out to the public. Bill Moore was taking payments and being fed information from Doty to muddy the waters in the UFO community. He finally came clean in 89, was booed off the stage at MUFON, and everything just unraveled. So it's all disinfo. Boot him off the stage because he finally said, look, I've been working with the government. A lot of the stuff I've been saying, they told me to say Majestic 12, all this stuff was coming from Doty, and they didn't want to hear it. They didn't want to hear it. And his career was basically over that day.
- [44:07]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [44:07]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Bill Moore. There was no Roswell story before Moore, before his book. And, you know, that was Doty. So the documentary about Doty was directed and put together by Lundberg and his associates. Lundberg was one of the original Circle makers that would make these fake crop circles to see how people would react. I just thought it was an interesting connection.
- [44:27]
Joe Rogan
But it's interesting because clearly some people are making these. But, like, what was the origins of it? Because I'm sure You've seen that image from the newspaper of the devil with a scythe. You know what I mean? And they're talking about crop circles, like back in, like the 17, 1800s. Yeah, 1600s. Wow. First crop circle ever reported was in 1678. According to the story, farmer, the crop mower were arguing about the cost of harvesting the farmer's oat field. The farmer was furious at the mower's price and stormed off, swearing that the devil himself should harvest the crop. That night, a dazzling light lit up the oat field, and in the morning, the farmer discovered perfectly round circles in his crops. He was so frightened by the circles, which he thought could only have been so neatly mowed by the devil or some infernal spirit that he abandoned any attempt to harvest the field. That's a little sketchy. You scared of circles? Come on, pussy.
- [45:26]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Really, though, if there were crop circles in my backyard, I would be a little nervous.
- [45:30]
Joe Rogan
I would be curious. It's not terrifying, right? They're not something that would scare me away from harvesting my crop.
- [45:37]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No. I'm more afraid of the government than I am.
- [45:39]
Joe Rogan
You know, Crop circles don't seem to be killing anybody. No, but it's like, what, so ley lines. So these things are to differentiate areas so they could see them from the sky.
- [45:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The idea the ley lines are the. Are the energy lines, whatever, a mystical energy. It's not a scientific energy. And where the lines intersect is where you see sites like Machu Picchu, Giza, Stonehenge, all these ancient sites. There's the ley lines. But ley lines is, you know, it's semi debunkable because if you connect enough lines, you're going to find patterns, you're going to find geometry.
- [46:18]
Joe Rogan
Right, right, right. You go looking for it.
- [46:20]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right?
- [46:21]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, very. Just very weird stuff. Like I said, I used to think it was total nonsense until I saw some documentaries on it where they were talking about the nodes. They were talking about. Some of these things are just so complex and they appear so quickly.
- [46:35]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The nodes and the braiding to me was like, okay, now I got to change my approach to this.
- [46:39]
Joe Rogan
What do you think it is?
- [46:42]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah, I don't know. I think. I think it's beyond us. It's just. We're just monkeys trying to. Trying to guess math, you know? I don't know. We. Every time we make a guess on this show, someone's laughing, you know? Of course, someone's like, you know, they think it's a landing site.
- [47:00]
Joe Rogan
Well, it's one of those subjects that if you even Entertain it, you're almost immediately a fool, which I'm super comfortable with being a fool. I entertain a lot of foolish ideas. But that one is particularly foolish because people always point to those guys with boards and I'm like, not so fast. Yeah, those guys with boards definitely made some circles, but this is. There's some of them that are really spectacular.
- [47:24]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
They are.
- [47:25]
Joe Rogan
And it just doesn't. And when you factor in the nodes and you factored in the weaving and then these incredible geometric shapes, like, how are you even mapping that? Like, how are you doing that? How many people are involved? How long does it take?
- [47:40]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I, you know, I would take people so long. It would never be that accurate.
- [47:46]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [47:46]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
With, you know, with ropes and boards, you know, I just don't see it.
- [47:50]
Joe Rogan
Right. But, like, it leaves you with this weird mystery. Just like, what. What is this?
- [47:55]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I wish I knew.
- [47:56]
Joe Rogan
It's just one of those things that, like, it's almost like the universe is laughing at us. Every now and then it just shows you something that's like, so goofy that you have to go, well, what is real?
- [48:07]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The. You know, a great. It was a hoax, but a great crop circle was the Arecibo response. Do you know that one? Yes, that was a great one.
- [48:13]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [48:13]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That we sent the Arecibo message out had. Had all the symbols on it that.
- [48:18]
Joe Rogan
It sent it back with like a half of you alien face.
- [48:21]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. And it showed where on the. In their solar system they lived, what their DNA was like. Yeah, it was a great one.
- [48:27]
Joe Rogan
Who did that one?
- [48:28]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I don't know who. I don't know if it was circle makers. I don't know who it was, but it was a hoax. But I was. But it was like a really well thought out one.
- [48:34]
Joe Rogan
Well, that one kind of looks like a hoax. Like, it's so on the nose. You have a alien face in the crop circle.
- [48:41]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Wasn't that different than the Arecibo response? I forget.
- [48:46]
Joe Rogan
I think they were related. I'm not sure though.
- [48:49]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The response I thought was so cool.
- [48:51]
Joe Rogan
I thought the Arecibo response was aligned with that UFO thing, the alien face. See if you can find the crop circle that says it.
- [49:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Jamie, you could be right. As soon as you see the alien face, you're out.
- [49:03]
Joe Rogan
I think the Arecibo response is next to. There it is above that. Jamie, you just had it. If you scroll, go to the top right there. Bam. Okay, so that's different.
- [49:14]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's different. But there's. There's.
- [49:16]
Joe Rogan
Arecibo is the answer album cover for someone on Apple. Right. But the crop circle is a real crop circle that somebody actually made that.
- [49:23]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. And that's a message in that circle. That spiral is a message.
- [49:27]
Joe Rogan
Look at that one to the right.
- [49:30]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
There's the Arecibo response down there with the humanoid face.
- [49:33]
Joe Rogan
Yes, that's it. That's it. Very weird. So that's a hoax.
- [49:38]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's a hoax. But boy, it's a good one.
- [49:40]
Joe Rogan
It's a fucking great one. Go back a couple of posts. Yeah, right there, that one on the right hand side. That's crazy.
- [49:51]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's the small circles that get me.
- [49:54]
Joe Rogan
Well, it's. If it is a hoax, it's amazing. That is just so weird. But again, it's like one of those. Like, it doesn't. It's not satisfying.
- [50:08]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No, it's not.
- [50:09]
Joe Rogan
No, there's not like every. It just at the end of it, you're just like, ah, I don't know.
- [50:13]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's why. The worst question is, what do you think it is? Ugh.
- [50:16]
Joe Rogan
Right. I was hoping you had something stupid.
- [50:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No, I don't have. I don't know, man.
- [50:22]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, I don't know either. But I do know that I want to believe, which is always the problem with me with all these things, you know, I want to believe the bases in Antarctica. I want to believe that there's pyramids up there, all that stuff.
- [50:34]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah. And when you find out something's debunked, how do you feel?
- [50:40]
Joe Rogan
Oh, you know.
- [50:41]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Are you okay?
- [50:42]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. I mean, disappointed, but.
- [50:45]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
But there's a party that goes. Yeah, that's probably right.
- [50:48]
Joe Rogan
Well, I think most of them are bullshit. I think, like, most UFO sightings are bullshit. Most UFO sightings are probably people seeing experimental military aircraft and things along those lines. Satellites, That's a big one like those, the Starlink ones, just fly across the night sky.
- [51:05]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah.
- [51:06]
Joe Rogan
Like, oh, my God, it's an alien.
- [51:07]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's not an alien. You could see them with your naked eye.
- [51:10]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, but if you didn't know what it was. It looks like a fleet.
- [51:13]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It does.
- [51:14]
Joe Rogan
Ships flying across the sky, and the.
- [51:16]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Way that they alternate lights, it looks like there's. And intelligence to it.
- [51:19]
Joe Rogan
Right? Yeah. Yeah. I've never seen anything myself. Have you?
- [51:25]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No, Gino has.
- [51:27]
Joe Rogan
What did he say?
- [51:28]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Gino saw it. And I think. I think maybe Jeremiah said he saw the same thing. Gino saw a giant orb of light over the Pacific Ocean and he watched it for a long time. And I said, where's the photo of it? And he said, I was so in awe, I didn't even Think to get out my phone. It's like, man. But that's a common thing you hear.
- [51:49]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [51:49]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Is you're just so in awe. You don't think. I gotta. Right selfie this.
- [51:53]
Joe Rogan
Right. You probably. If you actually saw something, there's a high probability that you'd be so freaked out. You'd be just in the moment. Like, what?
- [52:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yep. And you know, Gino's legit. He's not.
- [52:03]
Joe Rogan
He's not a artist. Yeah. Now, I've talked to quite a. Dave Foley had a sighting. He saw something.
- [52:09]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Gino talked to David. They saw the same thing.
- [52:12]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Mmm.
- [52:13]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Well, there's always the question of, like, what's going on off the coast. And I'm sure you're aware of this one. We actually talked about it the other day, but we never found it. There's a structure that's off of Malibu in the deep water that was available on Google Maps.
- [52:29]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Was a structure.
- [52:30]
Joe Rogan
Was. And now it's blurred out.
- [52:32]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yep.
- [52:33]
Joe Rogan
But it looked like there's openings in it. There's a top that's flat. It looks like.
- [52:38]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Looks like a base.
- [52:39]
Joe Rogan
Looks like a base.
- [52:41]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Looks like a base.
- [52:42]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [52:42]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, if.
- [52:43]
Joe Rogan
And now it doesn't.
- [52:44]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Now it just looks like blurry water.
- [52:46]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Like, why does it look different now? Like, what's going on?
- [52:49]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
With a gun to my head, all the weird stuff is in the ocean. It's not from another planet.
- [52:54]
Joe Rogan
Really.
- [52:55]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No. I don't know. Who knows? But it makes a lot more sense that the stuff we're seeing. It's the best place to hide. It's just deep water.
- [53:04]
Joe Rogan
So not from another planet originally. Like, maybe originally. And that's where they make their base.
- [53:11]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's hard for me to square how to travel great distances. It's hard for me to square that. You know, I know that we've got the Albuquerque drive and warp drive and all these theoretical things about compressing space, time and all of that. You know, I get it. But it's hard for me to think that that's solvable. But what is interesting is maybe another species evolved alongside of us a long time ago and has been here a long time and said, you know what? Let's go. Here's. This is where we go to avoid cataclysms and geological instability. Let's go underwater.
- [53:46]
Joe Rogan
That's a weird one, though, because, like, what kind of technology are you utilizing? How would you. How did you achieve that level of technological superiority and not completely control man? Because if I was an intelligent species that was capable of developing bases under the water. I'd be super concerned at all the different things that human beings are doing to ruin things. Like if we had chimps that all of a sudden had flamethrowers and they were lighting the jungle on fire, we'd probably take their flamethrowers.
- [54:14]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
So like we would turn off a nuclear reactor. Yeah, right. So we talk about humans. If, if this theory is true that they evolved here, there were no humans. Humans are 300,000 years old. That's not. It would take whatever species a lot longer than that to evolve to this technological level. We've seen the craft just zip into water with no displacement.
- [54:35]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [54:36]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, where are they going? And there are unnamed whistleblowers, you know, anonymous sources that say there's a base near the Bermuda Triangle. The Navy knows about it, they know not to get close. It moves around a little bit. I'm gonna do an episode on it soon. Cause it's just too good not to corroborated by another biologist who said he worked with the retrieval team. And yes, there's stuff and, and what this base does is from raw materials creates craft to go on specific missions. So there's always the question, you know, why is there a saucer? Why does it look like a pyramid? Why is it this? It's because they're custom built for a mission and there's an AI and a species down there and they say we're going to go survey Mount Hayes in Alaska. Super, super fascinating place. So we only need a scanning gear, some propulsion, and we just build it, fits in an orb, send it out, does its thing, comes back and then it gets broken down to its parts. And then another mission build it. It's gonna be a triangle, it's gonna be this or that. Does its mission comes back. To me, that makes good sense. A good way to do that, A good way to conserve resources, not have to go out and get stuff. I like the theory. That's a fun, It's a fun theory.
- [55:41]
Joe Rogan
It's a fun theory. Yeah. It's a fun theory also that if you were, if you were creating bases here, like say if they're coming from somewhere else and they want to visit us, it would be far more logical to develop some sort of a base with resources and you know, where you could, you could observe things and they can exist there completely undetected and then be able to go to wherever they're from, back and forth. But when they're here on Earth, it would be undetected.
- [56:15]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right.
- [56:15]
Joe Rogan
And the Ocean is literally 70 something percent of the Earth's surface.
- [56:21]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And we've mapped, I think 2 or 3% of it.
- [56:23]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, It'd be a good place to hide in plain sight.
- [56:26]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's what I would do. And to make things from raw materials, meaning like molecular level stuff, you're. I mean you're totally off grid, you know, we don't need to strip mine. We got everything here.
- [56:37]
Joe Rogan
Right, Right. And if you have something that's a trans medium vehicle, so it doesn't displace the water, it works on some sort of a warp drive or something.
- [56:47]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I think you have to get into interdimensionality then and all, it gets a little wild. But if you're not displacing air or water, that means you're phasing through matter.
- [57:00]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [57:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Which is theoretically doable because everything is mostly space.
- [57:03]
Joe Rogan
Well, they said they've mapped things going under the water. 500 knots.
- [57:08]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. Without making a splash.
- [57:10]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. No ripples, no discernible waves.
- [57:13]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Greg Louganis right in there. Nothing.
- [57:16]
Joe Rogan
500 knots under the water. I mean, what the fuck could do that? The amount of energy you'd have to have go through that much resistance of deep water. 500 miles an hour. 500 knots.
- [57:29]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. Look at how when they do missile tests from subs, how those things are just like, ah, trying to get out of the water.
- [57:36]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [57:36]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And these things just go bloop.
- [57:37]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [57:38]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And nothing.
- [57:39]
Joe Rogan
Well, that's the weird ones. But that would make you also think like maybe it is a hologram. Because if there are these trans medium things, but the thing is they're seen there with radar.
- [57:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. Which means heat signature or mass.
- [57:53]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [57:54]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Or electromagnetic displacement.
- [57:56]
Joe Rogan
Or if it was, if it is some sort of photons, like some sort of a projection, would that not have some kind of a heat signature?
- [58:07]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It would if it was ionized air.
- [58:10]
Joe Rogan
Mmm.
- [58:11]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, that would be plasma. So that was hot, if that's what it is. But when they go into the water, we see them under the water for a second and you don't see any refraction.
- [58:22]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [58:23]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
So that kind of screws up the, like the holographic projection theory a little bit because there's no light refraction. So how did you do that? Yeah, no, I'm asking you how do you do that? I don't know either.
- [58:36]
Joe Rogan
I mean, that's my answer.
- [58:39]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I mean, you've had physicists on here that I've seen go.
- [58:43]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, well the really crazy ones are the ones that the fighter pilots have seen because, you know, particularly Commander Fravor and the other people that were on that mission with him. So two separate jets. You have four people that are eyewitness to this thing. And then there was something actually under the surface of the water, like an aircraft carrier, an enormous thing that this Tic Tac is hovering above. And then that thing descends into the water. The Tic Tac turns towards them, jamming their signal. Is hovering in space. And then shoot. Shoots off at such an insane rate of speed that most of the things that we have on earth would just disintegrate and fall apart just from the sheer pressure.
- [59:28]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Of course, from the inertia can be done. Now, if I were doing an episode on Tic Tac or Go Fast or Gimbal, I would be remiss if I didn't include Mick West's analysis of those. And I know you've talked to Mick on and off throughout the years.
- [59:40]
Joe Rogan
He's like a professional debunker.
- [59:42]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
He is.
- [59:43]
Joe Rogan
He wants to debunk things that I don't think can be debunked.
- [59:45]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
He does. He approaches it as it's definitely fake. And I'm going to show you why.
- [59:49]
Joe Rogan
Everything is definitely fake. Almost to the point where I'm like, who you working for?
- [59:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right, right.
- [59:53]
Joe Rogan
Who you working for?
- [59:55]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Everyone thinks we're CIA, by the way.
- [59:56]
Joe Rogan
I mean, you.
- [59:57]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Oh, yeah. Reddit is convinced I'm CIA.
- [60:00]
Joe Rogan
Oh, me too.
- [60:01]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's why my channel blew up in two and a half years, because the CIA. CIA is back.
- [60:06]
Joe Rogan
Oh, I've heard that before. I've heard that about many people. Like the reason why they got successful. I've heard that about me too.
- [60:11]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah.
- [60:12]
Joe Rogan
Like go back to 2009 where I have 200 viewers. Like, the CIA sucked back then. They weren't helping me at all.
- [60:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Dude, I remember just watching you in little squares on ustream, just like the top of your head. And Brian and Duncan, I mean, that's what I Geno's like, you gotta watch Joe Rogan's show on ustream. I'm like, what are you talking about? He's a comic. He's like, he's got Graham Hancock on. And I went, oh, I gotta watch that. And that's when I started watching.
- [60:36]
Joe Rogan
I think Graham was our first serious guest. So it was Duncan and I and we were in my house and Graham flew from England. We ate pizza in my kitchen. It was the first time I got to meet him. I was so pumped because I'd read his book in the 90s.
- [60:49]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Same.
- [60:49]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Fingerprints of the Gods. Amazing book from Art Bell is who.
- [60:53]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Told me about it.
- [60:54]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, I remember my wife was like, you should read, like, real, real Archaeology. I'm like, no, this is fucking interesting shit.
- [60:59]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Why should. Is your wife a scientist or something?
- [61:01]
Joe Rogan
No, no, no. She's just a little more serious than me.
- [61:03]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah, smarter than me. Same, same.
- [61:08]
Joe Rogan
But it's like I still to this day will pick up those books and read them and, like, I do not think that modern archaeology has the full story. And I've seen the way they behave. I saw the way Flint Dibble behaved with Graham. They're gatekeepers. They don't want anyone to have any information that they don't have. So even in the face of very compelling information, they dismiss openly, quickly, without any consideration. They just want to dismiss it. And then they want to pretend that any archaeologist that presents any kind of information that fucks up the narrative isn't immediately attacked. And they are. Their careers are ruined. Whether you go back to Clovis first or any of these different archaeologists that have proposed alternative theories of the human timeline, all of the conventional archaeologists, all the mainstream people attacked them.
- [62:04]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Randall Carlson, Robert Schoch, John Anthony West. If I were advising Graham, I would have said, don't do that debate, don't do it. There's no way to come off. You're not going to convince anybody and you're just going to come off not looking great. And I've seen his response on his own site. He's even said, that was probably a mistake, he wasn't prepared enough. But you'll never be prepared enough for a professional debunker. You just won't be. They'll have too much. So I would have told him, don't go into the lion's den.
- [62:34]
Joe Rogan
Well, the problem was he wasn't being honest. Flint was not being honest about the information that we have, particularly about offshore shipwrecks. It was just not honest.
- [62:43]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Nope.
- [62:44]
Joe Rogan
You know, and the amount that they have discovered, not honest.
- [62:47]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And Graham didn't know that at the time.
- [62:49]
Joe Rogan
And also the timeline of, like, how old these are, when you get to 5,000, 6,000 years, there's no ship left. All you have is, like, the pottery and whatever is on the ground at the bottom. And if you're talking about 10,000 years, 15,000 years, who's to say that that's not completely covered by sediment by then? And it probably would be.
- [63:09]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Well, you know, I watched a little of Zaya was on here.
- [63:13]
Joe Rogan
That's all you need, just a little for that episode. You get it?
- [63:16]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I couldn't believe he's still doing It, I mean, maybe he was around when they actually built the things.
- [63:21]
Joe Rogan
I think that was probably the best advertisement for alternative archaeology you're ever going to get. When you see the guy that's the gatekeeper and how close minded he is.
- [63:32]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
He didn't mention the capstones, the limestone facing from Torre. He didn't even talk about it.
- [63:37]
Joe Rogan
Well, also this, just saying it was the national project and that's how they were able to get 80 ton stones 500 miles away through the mountains on sleds.
- [63:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Like, come on, the Aslan stones are from 1200 miles away.
- [63:55]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [63:56]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, the Torah stones are, I don't know, 20, 30 miles away or whatever.
- [64:01]
Joe Rogan
How about those Lebanon stones at Baalbek?
- [64:03]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Baalbek. They can't. How many tons is that? You need a person standing on it to even see the size of it. If you've never seen the Baalbek stone, if you're listening, the thing is, it's like a skyscraper on its side and it's one solid piece.
- [64:18]
Joe Rogan
And it was moved there.
- [64:19]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes.
- [64:20]
Joe Rogan
See, pull up the Baalbek stones in Lebanon because there's stuff that's above it that is like of a more recent time period, but it seems to have been put there on top of these older stones that are so big they don't make any sense. Like that's just one of them that was quarried but not moved. But the ones that are in place go to the ones that like. See, like these ones, the ones that are above. So they're the lower stones and the ones above, you don't realize how big they are unless you can get a human being to stand next to them. But they are preposterously big. Like there you go. Right, like you.
- [65:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
15Ft high, 30, 40ft long. I mean they're shown in metric. So I'm confused.
- [65:07]
Joe Rogan
Incredible. And who, who did it and when, when was that done? And then there's like Malta, like that stuff that they think Malta was constructed when the sea levels were much lower. So there was a way to make a path to there from Italy and from these other places because they found.
- [65:28]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Neanderthal bones there and allegedly giants built that. Derinkuyu and all the hidden cities underneath Cappadocia and Turkey that they're finding are connected.
- [65:36]
Joe Rogan
Those are nuts.
- [65:37]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No one knows who made them.
- [65:39]
Joe Rogan
No one knows who made them. And they confess have thousands of people living underground.
- [65:44]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
They can bring fresh water from the, from the aquifers, they can bring fresh air and circulate it. They have defensive mechanisms with these Giant stones. And nobody knows how they made them.
- [65:53]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [65:53]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And who and why? Yeah, Great Flood.
- [65:58]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, that's the theory. Right, the theory. The Great Flood and then the Younger Dryas impact theory destroyed the atmosphere where there was this, like, above the Earth, which is, like, chaotic, and they sought refuge underground.
- [66:09]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I lean more toward that the ice sheets melted from a solar event than an impact. But it certainly could be either.
- [66:17]
Joe Rogan
Well, it could be a combination of. Because it's also. They think there was more than one. The impact event happened. They know this based on core samples. Iridium, the nano diamonds that come from impacts.
- [66:30]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
This is the Greenland impact.
- [66:32]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, not just Greenland, North America. They think it. Hackers. I think they found the evidence of this stuff, like 30% of the Earth's surface where they believe these things had hit. I think we got bombarded.
- [66:44]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. So that would be like flying through an asteroid field like the Leonids, or the Perseids and Taurids. So the remnants of some giant object that is rubble, and we just fly through it. Which means we fly through it frequently.
- [66:59]
Joe Rogan
We fly through it twice a year.
- [67:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Twice a year.
- [67:01]
Joe Rogan
But we don't always. You know, most of the time we get lucky and it's not a really a hot one, but like when they were. Tunguska.
- [67:09]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Tunguska, Right. That's. That's Grandma. And this is 1907.
- [67:12]
Joe Rogan
And in the same month that we pass through that comet field.
- [67:16]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's right.
- [67:17]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [67:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. That's over Siberia. And that was an air burst, I believe, because there's no impact crater, but it flattened like millions of square miles of trees.
- [67:25]
Joe Rogan
And still fucked to this day.
- [67:27]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes. Yeah, yeah. There's images of that. If you want to look up that. There's actual, like, film of it. It's crazy. It looks like a bomb went off.
- [67:35]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. We're in a shooting gallery. You know, Earth is flying through a shooting gallery. There's 900,000 Near Earth Objects that are just hovering around out there.
- [67:45]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And NASA says we track most of them because in those fields, with the proceeds towards. There are big objects. There are Earth killers in there.
- [67:56]
Joe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- [67:57]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, and Apophis is lurking. Apophis is the big one that's due to fly by in a few years.
- [68:03]
Joe Rogan
What's that one?
- [68:04]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's a giant asteroid. That's. I think it's due to fly by maybe 20, 30 something.
- [68:10]
Joe Rogan
How big is that one?
- [68:12]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I'll get it wrong. I mean, I'm gonna say a million things wrong today. I'll hear all about it. But it's a Planet killer. Like, it's a civilization ender. And it's gonna fly near. Like, we're gonna be able to see it during the day.
- [68:24]
Joe Rogan
375 meters across, about the size of a cruise liner. It will pass within 32,000 kilometers of Earth's surface on April 13, 2029.
- [68:34]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Now, stop there. That's about. That's closer than the moon. I mean, way closer than the moon.
- [68:40]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [68:41]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
So that's what, about 70,000 miles where the moon is.
- [68:44]
Joe Rogan
250.
- [68:45]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
250 to 300. So we're going to see that. What? You don't want to see that in this. You don't want to look up and see that.
- [68:54]
Joe Rogan
Well, just knowing that one's far larger have passed through and then we know for sure. A bunch of hit. You know for sure. You know, Chichen Itza, that one.
- [69:06]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
All right. Chicxuluba.
- [69:07]
Joe Rogan
That was.
- [69:07]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That was pseudoscience until that father son went down there and found it.
- [69:10]
Joe Rogan
Mm.
- [69:11]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And that wasn't that. I think that was when I was growing up. The dinosaurs died. It was. That was a conspiracy theory asteroid. And they found it, I think, around 1980.
- [69:21]
Joe Rogan
Yucatan impact. Yeah.
- [69:24]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And that's under the ocean. And the iridium matches it.
- [69:28]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. All that is really spectacular stuff. It's just like when you look at the moon, you see the craters all over it, and you realize, okay, this is what happens when you don't have an atmosphere and you also don't have water. And you could see everything that hits, like, the whole thing.
- [69:43]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The whole thing covered. But why are there so many fewer impacts on the other side? Are there fewer?
- [69:49]
Joe Rogan
Really?
- [69:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I can't. I don't know the moon. I have. I have a. It became a saying on the show. I even have a T shirt. The moon is weird.
- [69:57]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [69:58]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Like, Gino's my. My weird topic guy. It's like, what should we talk about? He's like, do hollow moon. So I went into that story thinking, this is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Right. The moon is hollow. And I'm doing the research. About halfway through, I'm like, hmm, the moon is weird. And then by the end of my research, I was convinced that clearly the moon is a hollow spaceship that was brought here from another part of the galaxy, and it's here. And the lizard people are absorbing our solar energy. That's the only explanation for it. Probably not true, but, man, the moon is very weird.
- [70:28]
Joe Rogan
Well, it's also weird that the alignment and the size and the distance of the moon makes the Eclipse. Perfect. What are the odds of that? What are the odds that it is the exact distance from the sun so that when the moon and the sun align, it's exact.
- [70:51]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. It's like a 400 to 1 race. It's exact.
- [70:54]
Joe Rogan
It's nuts.
- [70:55]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
But you could debunk that by saying the moon is getting further and further away.
- [70:59]
Joe Rogan
Right. But why is it perfect?
- [71:01]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I mean, we have not found a planet in this solar system or anywhere else that has a giant moon right next to it, quarter the size of the Earth. We haven't found it. Yeah, we're the only one with it. And there are ancient legends that talk about a moonless sky. And when the moon arrived. And when it arrived, it caused a great flood.
- [71:25]
Joe Rogan
What are the ancient stories of a moonless sky? Where are they from?
- [71:30]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Ancient Indian texts will have it, but also native legends will have it about the moon, about a moonless sky. And then the moon arrives.
- [71:37]
Joe Rogan
And when do they think the moon arrived?
- [71:40]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's hard to tell. You know, I always go to Younger Dryas. Younger Dryas, but who really knows? The Earth was apparently just covered in this haze, just very wet, very hazy. Maybe like Venus or something like that. Then the moon arrives, and all that water from the atmosphere drops down to Earth. The tidal forces are crazy. There's a huge flood and everything just settles. And then the moon is here. And the Moon is now like the guardian of the planet, which it really is. We could, you know, we couldn't really.
- [72:08]
Joe Rogan
Survive without it because it stabilizes our atmosphere. Right?
- [72:11]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Stabilizes us and stabilizes our orbit. Our orbit and our spin and our axis. When there's a major earthquake, the Earth changes speed, the spin change, like our spin, it change, like, measurably if there's a big earthquake and if there's a lot of those that could throw you off the axis. But the Moon steps in like a bouncer and it settles things back down.
- [72:33]
Joe Rogan
Hmm. So the idea would be that some sort of a superior civilization placed the moon there to ensure our survival.
- [72:42]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I don't think they care about us.
- [72:44]
Joe Rogan
Really.
- [72:45]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No, I don't think so.
- [72:46]
Joe Rogan
How come?
- [72:47]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Again, we're in very speculative territory because nobody knows.
- [72:52]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [72:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
But I would think it would just be for resources. Hey, this place has a lot of stable water. That's useful.
- [72:59]
Joe Rogan
Don't you think? They would be fascinated with us as an emerging civilization. And like, I always say that if we found a planet that had cave people on it, like just starting to learn stone tools and stuff like that, we would for sure be interested in them, we'd be so fascinated and we would probably try to accelerate their learning curve.
- [73:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You think we would?
- [73:19]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, definitely, yeah. Yeah. Well, think of what a lot of these jerk offs have done with like uncontacted tribes and stuff like that. We're always trying to intervene and do something with them.
- [73:31]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know the Dark Forest theory? No, it's Lucian Xia who wrote the Three Body Problem and all those Dark Forest theory says that if you attain a certain level of technology, the best thing you can do is just be quiet because the universe is a dark forest and the first person to stick his head out dies because you don't want a competitor in your region. So as soon as a culture gets close to some technology that could make that, they're on a path to threaten you, you got to take them out, you got to halt their technology. And three Body Problems is kind of based on that. That's what they do in the books. And that seems to make a little more sense to me than sort of this altruistic, hey, let's help them, the Star Trek approach. Let's make first contact and all of that. You know, I like, you know, human nature is a tricky thing. We're very selfish. You know, you and I might want to see those people and help them along. But there's a lot of people that would not want a competitor in the neighborhood.
- [74:33]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, maybe, but what if they don't even think of us as a competitor? What if they're so advanced? Like if they're millions of years advanced, wouldn't they? Like this is the thing that Diana Pasulka and Gary Nolan and a lot of these people that study crashed retrievals. There's a term that they use that these are donations, right? That these vehicles are donations and that the idea is we're supposed to look at this and formulate new ideas through reverse engineering.
- [75:05]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And you know, there's circumstantial evidence that that's true. If you look at Bell Labs and all the crazy discoveries after Roswell, like we're using cathode ray tubes and suddenly transistors are made in silicon semiconductors and wireless transmission. And Bell Labs is all these leaps forward. Fiber optics, fiber optics, laser technology came out of Bell as well. And you know, the retrieval experts say that fiber optics and lasers for sure is reverse engineered. And it kind of makes a lot of sense because it seemed to have come out of nowhere. Suddenly Bell Labs has it, you know, but, you know, it' swy question is, where is the stuff? You know, we've got World War II. We go into Korea in 1950 and at the time Russia, Russia had the MiG. 15 was basically on par with us. I think we had the F86 at the time and Mig might have even been better. So that would have been a great time for some advanced tech. But America did catch up and exceed the Soviets about 51, 52 during Korea and then has been superior ever since. But you would think that after 47 with the Soviets there, let's get some of this anti gravitic stuff going.
- [76:20]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, maybe the problem is that you're working in this very compartmentalized environment, so you're not allowed to share with all these different scientists. So because of that there's no collaboration which is necessary for real innovation. You have to have extroverts from a bunch of different fields analyzing all the different aspects of it. This is what Lazar pointed to, the problems that they were having at S4 when they were trying to back engineer this stuff. He's like, you can't do science like this. Because everything is so top secret and so compartmentalized. The metallurgists were not allowed to talk to the propulsions people and no one was allowed to talk to anybody else. And everybody was just like, what the is going on?
- [76:58]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right.
- [76:59]
Joe Rogan
What are these things where, like they didn't even tell him, allegedly. You know, if the story's true, they didn't even tell him where this thing came from. They, they show it to him and there's a United States flag sticker on it. And he's like, oh, this is ours. Oh, that makes sense. And then he's examining, he's like, oh no, it's not. Like there's no seams in this thing. Like what is this? What's, what is the metal? Why is it designed for something that's three feet tall? Like there's no controls inside this thing. Like, what is this reactor? How does this thing work?
- [77:29]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
There's a chair. Yeah, you know, there's a couple of chairs. It looks like there's a neural interface. Maybe. I, you know, you hear a lot of the scientists, their frustration. Like, if I could just talk to these guys. Right. You know, I'm picking up an EM field from this. The metallurgist would be helpful here. Tell me what's going on. You know, I keep coming across spinning mercury all the time.
- [77:50]
Joe Rogan
Spinning mercury.
- [77:51]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The spinning mercury engine has been part of the lore since ancient India has the vimanas, you know, those, those craft. If you look at the ancient text, it may have been The. In the Mahabharata. Yeah, but they allude to this liquid metal. And then you fast forward to, like the Nazis building the bell. The D Glock, that was a mercury engine. And then we fast forward a little further. Mark McCandless in the ARV vehicle. The. I forget the flux liner, that's spinning mercury engine. So spinning mercury keeps popping up. And spinning mercury would cause some type of field. What that would be, I'm not a scientist or physicist. I'm not sure, but it would certainly throw off a bunch of ions that could maybe be harnessed or used for something.
- [78:35]
Joe Rogan
Well, it's like we're trying to explain things to us based on our current understanding of technology. Like, glass was invented a long time ago. But imagine showing up with a brand new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra with Gorilla glass, you know, in that thin frame and looking at. They were, what the is this?
- [79:01]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
There'd be statues of you for a thousand years.
- [79:03]
Joe Rogan
You know what glass is? You know what metal is, right? Well, this is glass of metal. You're like, what?
- [79:07]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
What?
- [79:08]
Joe Rogan
No. What the fuck is this?
- [79:09]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
We took sand and made it real hot and it made it clear. Huh?
- [79:12]
Joe Rogan
What? You can drop it on the concrete, it doesn't break, right? Yeah. So just our current understanding of technology based on the origins of that technology. Just metal and glass. You know, you show someone metal and glass is thousands of years old. Show them what we have now with metal and glass. They'd be blown away. And you just keep going, keep going, go a thousand years from now. Like, what does it all look like? It's like, probably some sort of gravity propulsion system. Probably 3D printed, so there are no seams, right? Yeah.
- [79:46]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And that's the frustration about disclosure, is how far could we be by now had there been disclosure in 47 or whatever.
- [79:54]
Joe Rogan
It's even more of a psyop. If it's all bullshit, like, it's a psyop. If it actually is, like, wow, the government is actually really good at one thing. They're good at keeping secrets about UFOs.
- [80:04]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's right.
- [80:04]
Joe Rogan
But if they're not. If it's all bullshit, like, boy, how weird that we've been, like, focusing on this nonsense, like, as a culture. It got in the front page of the New York Times in 2017. But meanwhile, it's all nonsense.
- [80:17]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right.
- [80:18]
Joe Rogan
That's almost less likely.
- [80:20]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Well, if you look at what Doty did in the 70s and 80s with Paul Benowitz, when Benowitz discovered this advanced technology on Kirtland Air Force Base, you know, he called the base and said, hey, I think there's UFOs. So they send Doty out. He was. He was Air Force Intelligence, osi. They sent him out to Bennewitz and they. And. And he's like, paul, I think it. I think it might be UFOs. It is aliens. And Paul, you know, Paul gets a little bit wacky, and he starts intercepting signals from outer space, and. And they're sending him messages. But it turned out it's really. The NSA rented a house across the street, and Paul is committed at some point. And then Dodie, over the years, changes his story. And instances, no, a lot of it is actually true. But Doty is also. He said as recently as 2019, Hal Puthoff tried to recruit him for disinformation campaign with atab.
- [81:10]
Joe Rogan
Really? So Hal Puthoff has been a part of disinformation campaigns.
- [81:16]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Allegedly, Allegedly forever.
- [81:18]
Joe Rogan
And what have they been doing with these disinformation campaigns? What have they been trying to muddle.
- [81:25]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Just to keep guys like you and me fascinated and trying to figure stuff out while they can just operate their advanced technology in peace? Like, let them think it's aliens and UFOs. That's fine.
- [81:36]
Joe Rogan
What a dirty thing to do.
- [81:38]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Filthy. In the 50s, they were very public about anti gravity. It was in the papers that, you know, the G engine, they were talking about it, and then suddenly quiet.
- [81:46]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, Jesse Michaels talks about that all the time. The Townsend Brown.
- [81:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes.
- [81:50]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [81:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And Ning Li, remember her story? The physicist who disappeared.
- [81:56]
Joe Rogan
Right. And then she died in a car accident after she came back from China. Oops. Oopsies.
- [82:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Mm.
- [82:01]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [82:03]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yep. So that was AC Gravity, if you guys want to look that up. She. She used to give talks and all of that. She was funded by DoD for $400,000, so we know that for sure. And then she just goes dark. She goes dark for 11 years, shows up. I think in 2013, she's back. 2014, she gets hit by a car.
- [82:25]
Joe Rogan
Why is it so fun?
- [82:27]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I don't know. Mark McClan just found all that stuff, ends up killing himself.
- [82:30]
Joe Rogan
All this stuff is so fun. Which is why the why files are so good. Because it's like, I always get the same feeling when I watch your show. It's like, oh, what is the answer? What is real? What is it? But it's. What is it about us that's so intrigued by these mysteries? There's so much that we know that is real. Just. Just the nature of the cosmos itself, of black holes and solar nurseries and all the wild Shit that's absolutely real. But there's these things that are like, yeah, but what is that?
- [83:04]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I don't think enough people are interested in it, to be honest. I think that's part of the problem.
- [83:09]
Joe Rogan
Well, I don't. You think it's. Because for the most part it's dismissed and if you engage in it. So like if you're a normal person, not like you or I, but if you're a person that has like a job in an accounting firm, you're like a very respected, legitimate person. Especially like pre2017, pre the New York Times article. And you want to start talking about like gravity propulsion systems that the government's been hiding and that there's back engineering programs, they've got crash UFOs. And there's one of them, it's only like a couple hundred feet wide, but you go inside of it, it's the size of a football field.
- [83:43]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. Like the tardis.
- [83:44]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Or the one in Korea that's so big they had to build a building around it because they couldn't move it.
- [83:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right.
- [83:51]
Joe Rogan
I want to know what that is.
- [83:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Same, same. I don't. I wish more people were interested in it.
- [83:56]
Joe Rogan
I would almost be willing to run for president just to get access. Just if I ran for president, the company would be in shambles, but everybody would know everything about UFOs.
- [84:06]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Dude, you have no shot.
- [84:07]
Joe Rogan
Oh, I have no shot. That would kill me for sure.
- [84:09]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I can't. I can't believe the things you say are news.
- [84:13]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, well, it's because news is like really dead.
- [84:15]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes, that's true. They're angry about. About independent media.
- [84:19]
Joe Rogan
Well, they are, but it's also the news is not. So their business is just clicks. And what better way to get clicks than I said something crazy. And so then, you know, and then it also kind of supports the idea that we need to be gatekeeped and someone needs to, you know, be able to stop us from spreading misinformation or my favorite term, mal information came up during COVID that we need to stop the spread of misinformation, disinformation and mal information. Mal information is real information that is true and accurate, but would be negative in its impact to society, which is.
- [85:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's bonkers crazy. We can't live in that society.
- [85:03]
Joe Rogan
Well, that's. They're making us infants, right. They're saying we can handle this. But the vast majority of you, even though we're all supposed to be equal and the government's supposed to be working for you and serving the people. No. We will have this information and we will know what we're doing. And you won't be able to have access to it because you're not ready for it, because you're too stupid.
- [85:22]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
They lost. They lost already. They just don't know it yet. But they lost.
- [85:26]
Joe Rogan
They lost a long time ago.
- [85:27]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I'm going to. I'm going to put out an episode about how dragons are real. And when I get to the debunk, I'm going to say nothing. They're real. Peace out.
- [85:35]
Joe Rogan
Triangular spacecraft. What is this?
- [85:37]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Stumbled down a little rabbit hole and found a patent that exists or did exist. It was abandoned in 2006.
- [85:44]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
This could be the. I forget. Look at this. The SR was a 7RB.
- [85:49]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
There's a T3B.
- [85:51]
Joe Rogan
This is like the ones that they always see, like the Phoenix Lights. And that one. So it says a spacecraft having a triangular hull with vertical electrostatic line charges on each corner that produce a horizontal electric field parallel to the sides of the hull. This field interacting with a plane wave emitted by antennas on the side of the hull generates a force per volume, combining both lift and propulsion. What gives?
- [86:18]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
All the math, but like, I don't know how to do this math. And if someone.
- [86:21]
Joe Rogan
Oh, we need to get Eric here.
- [86:22]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Someone can look at him like, that's not real.
- [86:24]
Joe Rogan
Get Eric Weinstein to like, do that.
- [86:25]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Math hasn't been made, obviously.
- [86:27]
Joe Rogan
Or that we know of.
- [86:30]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And I'm surprised it's not classified.
- [86:33]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
There's other. According to this article, that's where I found it. There's what it was about, the T3B thing.
- [86:37]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. So that, That's. That's a real experimental aircraft.
- [86:40]
Joe Rogan
Does America have a reverse engineer UFO?
- [86:42]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Whoa.
- [86:44]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
But this goes back to 1991 with the desert Storm. There's reports of what they call it a TR3A, which looks a lot like what the stealth bomber kind of.
- [86:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah.
- [86:53]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
But also.
- [86:53]
Joe Rogan
Whoa.
- [86:54]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yep.
- [86:55]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
No.
- [86:55]
Joe Rogan
TR3B is said to be like nothing we've seen before.
- [87:01]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
This was what I got to from liquid mercury. I was trying to find stuff about it and there's theories that people say that, like, this is probably what they're running off of.
- [87:09]
Joe Rogan
It's supposedly powered by a reverse engineered anti gravity drive that was recovered from a crashed airline spacecraft. The TR3B is where reports of UAP performing seemingly impossible aerial maneuvers intersect with stories about very real aircraft.
- [87:24]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Read the next paragraph.
- [87:26]
Joe Rogan
There are lots of claims over the Internet about TR3B's anti gravity drive, most of which include using nuclear power to rotate highly Pressurized mercury to produce plasma and in turn, a gravitational field. Whoa.
- [87:43]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Something about the mercury.
- [87:44]
Joe Rogan
Have you ever heard Eric Weinstein talk about this? There's a college in upstate New York that has an incredibly overqualified physics department, and they're attached to a hedge fund that does Bernie Madoff type numbers. And he thinks the whole thing is a cover for some sort of advanced physics that they have been keeping a lockdown on.
- [88:05]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And it would make total sense. I mean, SRI would be another good example of that. Right. Where HAL was in the 70s, Project Stargate and all of that in Stanford.
- [88:14]
Joe Rogan
The idea that the government can't keep secrets. Like, what about Epstein?
- [88:19]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Come on, People ask me all the.
- [88:20]
Joe Rogan
Time in front of everybody's face, and they've come, kept the list a secret.
- [88:24]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
We're never going to see the list. Stop asking me. You're not going to see the list. Why not? Because everybody, all you heroes are on it, and they're on it a lot. That's never coming out.
- [88:33]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. And you know. You know, I have a friend that thinks, like a lot of the world events that you're seeing. One of the reasons why people support it is because of Epstein, because of the list, because people are compromised, because no one can talk about things, you know, which is, like, really wild. So the government can keep some secrets.
- [88:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Manhattan Project was secret.
- [88:53]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, they did a great job with that. And that was one that, you know, I mean, it was a race between us and the other foreign powers. They were all trying to come up with a nuclear bomb. First we did it first. The idea that there's no way that we could have some sort of advanced propulsion system and that modern physicists would be aware of the state of the art and they would tell you, yeah, no, this is not possible. I don't think that's correct. I think you could probably, if you were working on something and you had a very specific hierarchy, and you were really good at compartmentalization, and you were recruiting these people at a very early stage in their career. People with promise. These geniuses giving them a very high salary, a prestigious position, but then everything's locked down. Cell phones, email, they're under constant surveillance. And if somebody steps out of line, like the lady in Maryland, the Chinese lady.
- [89:53]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yep. A lot of them. Yeah, a lot of them go that way.
- [89:56]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [89:56]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, I'm very. I'm skeptical about a lot of the whistleblowers, especially the ones that come out of Air Force intelligence and all that.
- [90:02]
Joe Rogan
But even when I'm talking to them.
- [90:04]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I'm like, well, I mean, you know, I kind of have that needle of skepticism. And it starts with, do you have a background in intelligence? Yes. Military intelligence, Air Force intelligence. Are you still on the payroll? Did you get your information cleared from the Pentagon?
- [90:19]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [90:20]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Do you have a book?
- [90:21]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [90:22]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And it all goes. Did you release some photos that were fake? I am awful here. Then you go, Bob Lazar, he has none of that stuff. Did the government target you? Did they try to discredit you? Have you been ostracized? When. When Lazar came out, I think it was to George Knapp. He didn't say his name. He didn't have any books. The first book, I think, was with him and Jeremy in 2019. So Lazar to me is the most credible of the whistleblowers. But Jeremy and George just had a whistleblower a couple of weeks ago. He's pretty credible. He's a young guy, he's clearly nervous and he has some very interesting information about what is Immaculate Constellation.
- [91:02]
Joe Rogan
Which guy is this?
- [91:03]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I don't remember his name. It's very new.
- [91:05]
Joe Rogan
Is that the bald guy?
- [91:06]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No, no, no. The bald guy, I think is Air Force Intelligence. This is a kid whose career is ruined and he's maybe in his 20s and you can see he's clearly nervous.
- [91:17]
Joe Rogan
And what is his claim?
- [91:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
His claim is that he was going through some files, you know, he's got top secret clearance, and he found the Immaculate Constellation project, basically a PowerPoint presentation. And his job was just to sort these files. And he's looking through it and suddenly it's like, whoa, this is about recovery and alien craft. And he did the right thing and went to his superiors and said, you know, there's a leakage. I saw information I maybe wasn't supposed to. I'm just letting you know. And his peers were like, eh, forget about it. And he's like. And that was it. It's just no reprimand, no nothing. I just went back to work. But he was too fascinated by the document, so he kept pursuing it and pursuing it and now he talks about it. I don't know his name, but if you track down Jeremy and George, you'll find it easily. That's the kid.
- [92:09]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. So here's a way that I would kind of try to debunk that. If I was being logical, if I was the government and I did have some very sophisticated propulsion system that's beyond the understanding of what we think to be current state of the art physics, like beyond, far beyond that. I think I might release A bunch of horseshit about UFOs. Yeah. I might put a bunch of that stuff out there to say, oh, it can't be ours. It's not ours. It's. It's not of this world.
- [92:43]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Muddy the waters.
- [92:44]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Not. Not just that, but attach, like, really kooky stuff to stuff that's real so that you think the real stuff is kooky.
- [92:54]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. Like the drone. Scared. Remember that? That was very manufactured and the press was all over it. We don't know where the drones are. They're all flying over the military bases, all that stuff.
- [93:05]
Joe Rogan
What do you think that was?
- [93:06]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I know what it was. I've seen the NOTAM reports. You know what a NOTAM is?
- [93:09]
Joe Rogan
No.
- [93:09]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's a notice to airmen. So pilots, private pilots, get warning of no fly zones. And usually you'll see a lot of swaths carved out if, like, Air Force ones flying through. But for some reason, these NOTAM reports have all these little circles all around that you can't fly through where the drones were. And I've seen that. And when did the drones. They suddenly stopped. When? Right before Inauguration Day.
- [93:34]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [93:35]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And no one talks about the drones anymore.
- [93:38]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's gone.
- [93:38]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Gone.
- [93:39]
Joe Rogan
I mean, it was mainstream news all over the place.
- [93:41]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And they had people nervous. Yeah, they had them nervous. And I think that was the point.
- [93:47]
Joe Rogan
So you think they did it as a psyop just to see how people would react?
- [93:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I do. And remember, I know nothing, but that is my opinion, is that it was a psyop and that most of this is.
- [93:57]
Joe Rogan
If there are visitors and there are from somewhere else, wouldn't the best way to prepare us to start flying a bunch of, like, really wacky shit that we have in the air and not explain it?
- [94:10]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That would be a good way to.
- [94:11]
Joe Rogan
Prepare us, get us comfortable with seeing things hovering over New Jersey that defy what our understanding of drone capabilities are in terms of the time that they can stay in the air. Some of them were in the air, like, for five hours.
- [94:25]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
But if that served. But if that's what was the reason to get us ready. It backfired because it freaked people out. People were very nervous about it. Like, so our military installations are vulnerable. People were very frightened.
- [94:38]
Joe Rogan
That was the other thing. Like, Wright Patterson Air Force Base had some drones, and then they had to shut the base down.
- [94:44]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And Wright Patterson is like, ground zero for all of it. Project Blue Book, Roswell went there. The second crash.
- [94:52]
Joe Rogan
What's the second crash?
- [94:53]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The second crash was some miles north and west of there. And you'll hear Doty talk about it. And that's where other pilots were recovered, I think a total of five or six pilots. The ebes. The Ebes. And according to Doty and others, one of the Ebes stayed with the government, I think, in los Alamos for five years, till 1952. That was EBA 1 or whatever. He liked strawberry ice cream.
- [95:23]
Joe Rogan
Who doesn't?
- [95:24]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Who doesn't? Right? That'd be the first thing I'd do if I went to Planet Serpos. What's the ice cream like here?
- [95:29]
Joe Rogan
Well, just the idea that they would eat like we eat seems crazy, right? And then also they could breathe our air. Like, what are the odds of that?
- [95:38]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Well, you know, the theories are, you know, we never see alien shit or whatever, but. But there's always a rebuttal, is that, you know, they have a metabolism that absorbs nutrients and their waste is recycled. And all of that stuff.
- [95:50]
Joe Rogan
Photosynthesis or something.
- [95:51]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Something like that.
- [95:52]
Joe Rogan
Well, they do seem genderless. Genderless. Giant heads. I always say that the archetype, like the. The grays, like close encounter grays. If you go back to, like, Neanderthals, and then you go back to, like, Australopithecus, covered in hair, heavily muscled, and then you go to, like, the average dude who plays Call of Duty, you know, like, what do we do?
- [96:15]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I play Call of Duty.
- [96:16]
Joe Rogan
It's fine. It's a great game. But, you know, I'm saying it's like people become like these frail muscle less things, and then your head keeps getting bigger and bigger as the mind evolves, and then human capabilities increase in terms of, like, our ability to communicate telepathically. All these different. No need for mouth noises anymore, so your mouth shrivels up this little slit.
- [96:38]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And why the eyes so. So big and black? Because you're evolved underground.
- [96:42]
Joe Rogan
Oh, I thought it was like, sunglasses built in.
- [96:45]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Well, it could be the same.
- [96:46]
Joe Rogan
Like, that's what I thought. I'm like, well, that looks like sunglasses, right? Like, if you want to protect your eyeballs, if, like, your atmosphere is far brighter and, you know, you have to be able to see things.
- [96:57]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I think that was. There was one retrieval story that. That had that, like, one of the black eyes was half open, that they thought it might have been something, a little shield. Like a shield. Like, that's a legit recovery story. I can't remember it offhand.
- [97:10]
Joe Rogan
Mmm. Like camels have a weird shield over their eyes for sandstorms, right? Yeah. Like, they have, like, an eyelid, a clear eyelid that covers over their eyes. That so they can, like, go through sandstorms and not get blinded.
- [97:25]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, it's an interesting point that you brought up about Neanderthals, is a lot of people don't know that just about 50,000 years ago, Neanderthals had basically an empire.
- [97:36]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [97:37]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Over all of Europe. And for hundreds of thousands of years. Hundreds of thousands of years, and then suddenly, boom, they're defeated by frail, weak, hairless humans out of caves. And it's attributed to. We figured out a bow and arrow, you know, we could harass from a distance, projectile weapons. And that's how we defeated this vast empire of Neanderthals who were not stupid.
- [97:59]
Joe Rogan
You know, who were bigger brains than ours.
- [98:01]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Bigger brains than ours. They had art, culture, music. They trained in warfare. They had organized warfare. I mean, can you imagine staring down the barrel of a division of organized Neanderthals coming at you.
- [98:13]
Joe Rogan
Right. Like essentially super athletes.
- [98:15]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes.
- [98:16]
Joe Rogan
With chimpanzee, like, strength.
- [98:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. And speed and intelligence. And we came out of the caves and defeated them. Okay.
- [98:24]
Joe Rogan
And eyes so large that they think their eyes might have been. They might have been able to see nocturnally.
- [98:29]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Mm.
- [98:31]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. I love that episode you guys did on Neanderthals. You debunked it at the end. But the idea that they were like more ape like than they were human, they look dark monsters, dark skin, fangs.
- [98:42]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah. That was a cool episode. Mostly debunked, but. Yeah.
- [98:45]
Joe Rogan
But I mean, there probably was some hunting of humans for sure. And when you're dealing with something that's a far superior physical specimen.
- [98:57]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah.
- [98:57]
Joe Rogan
When you. Much denser bones. Sure. Much stronger than us.
- [99:01]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And when we know that we have some of their DNA in us and it's, you know, when you hear, oh, we interbred with them. That's not precisely how it went down, most likely. It's most likely the women were carried away. That's how the interbreeding happened.
- [99:16]
Joe Rogan
Yikes. Huh? Yikes. Or horny men. Some lonely Neanderthal lady.
- [99:24]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Some dudes. Like a big lady. There's no shame in it.
- [99:26]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. A big thick one to make you some fucking warrior children.
- [99:32]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Just want to be cuckoo.
- [99:33]
Joe Rogan
Someone's just got dense bones, you know? I'm looking for a lady with a dense head.
- [99:40]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Let's have a dense baby.
- [99:41]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. What are their fucking language sound like? It's like we used to think of them as being really stupid. And until they realized that their brain mass is actually larger than ours and they were capable of language and all these different things. Like, okay, like how did we beat them?
- [99:56]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I don't know. That is a puzzle, you know, the answer is projectiles.
- [100:02]
Joe Rogan
Well, it kind of makes sense. I mean, if we were the only ones to figure out bows and arrows and atlantels and all that kind of stuff, it would work. Yeah, especially we organized, you know, but.
- [100:14]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You could still overwhelm. How? You know, you can overwhelm a few archers with just. We would just throw bodies at it. Now, warfare has been fought like that for humans forever.
- [100:25]
Joe Rogan
Maybe their language is too crude to allow for that kind of communication, like, to strategize and, you know, I'm saying, like, maybe their language is like, very crude, normal day to day stuff. I'm hungry, I want to fuck. Like, let's kill these people. It was not complicated enough to say, like, we got an issue here.
- [100:44]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right?
- [100:44]
Joe Rogan
Here's the issue. We got to get around them from the back end, you know, and you guys get to distract them from the front, and this is what we'll do, you know?
- [100:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I mean, that's the only thing that makes sense. Yeah, but it still doesn't make complete sense to me.
- [100:57]
Joe Rogan
Why were their brains bigger than ours? That's the weird one. Like, we associate larger brains with more complex thinking. So why would what we think of as the most brutish version of human beings.
- [101:09]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I don't know, but don't. Neanderthal brains, even though they were larger, had fewer convolutions.
- [101:15]
Joe Rogan
Oh, really? Do we know that?
- [101:17]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's part of my research, which, you know, most of it's bullshit, but that's what I read. You know, large brain, but not as powerful, but interesting.
- [101:25]
Joe Rogan
Well, so maybe the large brain was attributable to physical capability.
- [101:31]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Just the fact that you can produce music tells me so much about your brain.
- [101:36]
Joe Rogan
And they produce music.
- [101:37]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
They produce music.
- [101:38]
Joe Rogan
How do we know that?
- [101:40]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
We found relics and artifacts of it.
- [101:42]
Joe Rogan
Of musical instruments.
- [101:43]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Instruments and cave writing and all that stuff. You know, they used to needles and thread to make clothing.
- [101:50]
Joe Rogan
Really? Wow.
- [101:53]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah. Very strange that we beat them.
- [101:55]
Joe Rogan
That's a Neanderthal tool.
- [101:57]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Neanderthal flute.
- [101:58]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Some sort of flute.
- [101:59]
Joe Rogan
Whoa.
- [102:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
A bone flute made with the bone of your defeated enemy?
- [102:05]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, Some dude you ate.
- [102:07]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Mm.
- [102:08]
Joe Rogan
Made a flute out of his shin.
- [102:11]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Oh, they figured out that death whistle back then too. That's sort of musical.
- [102:15]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Oh, yes. It's not the same, but Aztec Des. Well, that's great. That's a scary one.
- [102:20]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, Brian Callan blew it on the show in 2019, and Covid started right afterwards.
- [102:25]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's the summon the demons yeah, right.
- [102:28]
Joe Rogan
Remember that?
- [102:29]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Yeah. It was January 2020.
- [102:31]
Joe Rogan
Oh, okay.
- [102:32]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
It's like weeks late. Weeks. Weeks before.
- [102:33]
Joe Rogan
Weeks before the lockdown.
- [102:35]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Covid was already here.
- [102:36]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Even been closer.
- [102:37]
Joe Rogan
I think Covid was already here by then.
- [102:39]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's like with the anti gravity. Why can't we cooperate with the Chinese? Yeah.
- [102:43]
Joe Rogan
Nope.
- [102:44]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Well, we kind of. We know how to do that.
- [102:46]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah. It's also fascinating to me how many different versions of human beings existed. You know, there's the hobbit people on the island of Flores.
- [103:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. That's a fascinating Homo floreensis, something like that.
- [103:02]
Joe Rogan
Homo, whatever it is. Yeah. The three foot tall little furry creatures that they think tools and.
- [103:09]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yep.
- [103:10]
Joe Rogan
War clothing and all that jazz.
- [103:12]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah. And there's even the different branches. Like CRO Magnon is not really from our branch. That's really. That's a different. Yeah, we branch from a different branch. So that's Denisovans, Dennis. Right.
- [103:25]
Joe Rogan
And then the. What are the big head people that they just found recently? This is like super recent. Like there was a. An article that was made in December of 2024 about this other new branch of the human species that had much larger heads than ours. And they think it was like this really thick, muscular, like heavy human being. What is it called again? Yeah, big head people. Yeah.
- [103:54]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
So they disappeared around the same time as the animals 50,000 years ago.
- [103:57]
Joe Rogan
Have you seen the images of what they reconcile construction make. See, go to some of the drawings of what these people look like. They looked insane.
- [104:05]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Were they taller?
- [104:07]
Joe Rogan
I do not know. I don't know how tall they were, but they look cool as.
- [104:12]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah.
- [104:14]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
There was like a jacked one, wasn't there?
- [104:15]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, that's the one I want. That's one. But that's not the one we were looking at. We were looking at one that theorized that it was completely covered in hair.
- [104:30]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Interesting.
- [104:31]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. So this is a very recent discovery. So how many. This is the thing. I think something like 90% of the species that have existed, we don't have fossils for.
- [104:45]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Well, I mean, 99% of the species ever existed are gone.
- [104:49]
Joe Rogan
Right. Fossils are very difficult to happen because it has to happen in a mudslide. Somehow the body has a be preserved and it's mineralized.
- [104:57]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. I don't know how many dinosaur fossils we have. Like a T. Rex. I don't even think we have a complete one yet. But 1 or 2 billion T. Rexes lived and died on the planet. We have a couple of skeletons, right? Billions.
- [105:10]
Joe Rogan
Right. Yeah. And it just makes you wonder when they're finding things like this in 2024, how many are yet to be discovered? I mean, how much of the grounds surface has really been excavated to a very high level?
- [105:24]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right? Yeah, very little. And it's very difficult to even dig there. I mean, what's happening in Turkey is a shame with Gobekli Tepe, you know, just paving over it and planting orchards on top of it.
- [105:38]
Joe Rogan
They've taken down the orchards. They did, yeah. The olive trees. The problem with that was that, and this is Jimmy Corsetti had talked about this long ago, that the issue with them doing this is the roots are going to destroy the artifacts below. And they're like, no, no, no, no, it won't. And then turns out actually it is. So they had to pull them. And so they pulled the olive trees, but they planted them purposely over the.
- [106:03]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Area, which is like, I'm glad Corsetti's out there. I like him and I know him pretty well.
- [106:07]
Joe Rogan
He's great.
- [106:08]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The Turkish government, I think, has banned him and is trying to get him in trouble here, trying to get him sanctioned sanction.
- [106:14]
Joe Rogan
How do you sanction a guy off YouTube? For what?
- [106:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Look, look, when you were. When. When CNN was going after you and they were like trying to get Spotify to cancel you, creators like me, who go against kind of mainstream, were very nervous because, like, if YouTube just pulled my show, I'm kind of fucked.
- [106:34]
Joe Rogan
Right?
- [106:35]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
So it's like, if they could take down Joe, we're done. But Spotify, with a lot of respect, hung fast.
- [106:42]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, we've talked about that. If I wasn't on Spotify and I was only on YouTube at the time, I might have been fucked. They were taking people down for actual, real truthful information that was in their eyes. Mal. Information that would cause vaccine hesitancy.
- [106:58]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Still, no apologies. No, but it was a risky time to be non politically correct before it was safe to.
- [107:08]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it was a very dangerous time. And weird because it's like instantly dangerous. Like it wasn't like that before. Then all of a sudden, like anything you could say could get your career ruined.
- [107:16]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yep.
- [107:18]
Joe Rogan
And again, everybody turned out to be right. Everybody was right that masks don't work. Everybody was right that the vaccine didn't stop, the infection didn't stop.
- [107:27]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Wasn't a vaccine.
- [107:28]
Joe Rogan
It wasn't a vaccine. It has a bunch of side effects.
- [107:31]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The pangolin is nonsense. I mean, we knew that all of this, it was just intuitive.
- [107:37]
Joe Rogan
The lab leak theory was racist.
- [107:39]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That was racist. Oh, my goodness, the R word.
- [107:43]
Joe Rogan
They tried anything. They tried anything. They could to silence any opposition. You were gonna say something. Do you mind? You were gonna say you had a question. I think I forget we steamed over it, but we were talking about the weirdness of that time, about how dangerous it was. You know, it was real touch and go. It was real weird. There was like a lot of forces that were trying to get me removed because I was talking to people that. They were deeming quacks. One of them, which is Robert Malone, who has nine patents on the creation of MRNA vaccine technology. These are rock solid credentials these people had. They weren't kooks like Jay Bhattacharya. All these people are Stanford, mit, Harvard, all these. All the people from the Great Barrington Declaration. These are the legitimate researchers and scientists that didn't agree with the narrative. And they were getting them removed from.
- [108:32]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Twitter and they had awards through their careers, highly revered and respected. And then suddenly, no, it didn't matter.
- [108:39]
Joe Rogan
Because these people, unfortunately had a conscience. And they were saying, well, this is not what I know. I am an actual expert, and I do not think that the information they're giving out is correct. So I'm going to speak my mind. They were just. And then there's also a concerted effort by Fauci and his group to go after these people and to attack these people publicly.
- [109:02]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes. And when it was very early on, I forget even what paper I had released an op ed in some paper criticizing a lot of this and lockdowns. Like, my dojo was closed down, was trying to fight with masks on. So I was angry. And then within weeks of that, it suddenly became politicized. And I was like, now I'm fucked. Now it's a political issue. How is it that this a political issue? Right, but it was. It was politicized. And I don't know why. I don't know why. I don't know why it was all shut down.
- [109:32]
Joe Rogan
I think it's all just money. I think the vaccine companies wanted to make as much money as possible. And then anything that contributed to vaccine hesitancy was not for the greater good of public health. It was because the more vaccine hesitancy, the less profit they would have. I think it's real simple.
- [109:48]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah, I agree, but that's really gross.
- [109:51]
Joe Rogan
It is gross, but it's also gross that they would prescribe it for children because it was totally unnecessary. So the only reason why they would prescribe it for children or mandated for children to get into schools because they wanted to make as much money as possible, and they made an insane amount of money. So it did work. It was effective, but boy, did it destroy a lot of credibility.
- [110:09]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It certainly did. And it definitely worked. Where my wife was working, it was a mandatory vaccine situation, but she was working remotely, so didn't really have to get it. But I can see that the narrative was starting to catch with her. And I'm like, honey, hold fast. This is a story. It was a left wing company and they're just following the narrative. They don't just hold fast, don't get that shot. And she didn't.
- [110:36]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, luckily I know people that did. I know people that have real fucking problems right now.
- [110:41]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Same.
- [110:42]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, lots.
- [110:43]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Like they got long Covid suddenly.
- [110:45]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. And it's weird that long Covid is something that mostly affects people that have gotten vaccinated, but they want to call it long Covid. They don't want to call it vaccine injury.
- [110:54]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Nope.
- [110:55]
Joe Rogan
The whole thing is, like, very creepy because it just shows you if something is like, very clear and obvious and it's a real disease and we know the origin of it now, and we know that all this stuff has been done to obscure it. How many other elements of society, how many other stories that are in the news have also been distorted and twisted around in order to promote a very specific narrative? And how effective have they been at doing this? It's not like this is the only time they've ever done this. So Covid was kind of a window into disinformation and about how the government can use these ploys and manipulation and, you know, using these tactics of humiliation, humiliating these established scientists, ruining their careers, attacking their credentials and what, what other things have they used these on? What other, you know, geopolitical aspirations have they masked in all this? Like it's. The whole thing is just like, it's very disconcerting to find out that the people that have been running the country are super comfortable with lying.
- [112:02]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Here's the good news is the irony of COVID is the forces that were forcing us to be locked down and stay home gave rise to independent creators and journalists and independent thinkers and folks like you. And because of their forcing the lockdowns, they destroyed their own industry.
- [112:21]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [112:22]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And there's no going back. I mean, I haven't watched MSNBC or Fox News in years. And you turn it on, it's like, oh, this is just. I hear the same stuff from the left and the right. I just hear the same stuff. I get my news from YouTube from all different sources, and that's what I want. And they destroyed their own industry.
- [112:40]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. And it's interesting to see, like, what is it gonna look like, you know, five, ten years from now? Because five, ten years ago, you'd never. Ten years ago you never would have imagined that CNN would lose all its credibility.
- [112:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No, that would. We watch, you know, Desert Storm on there.
- [112:54]
Joe Rogan
Everything always when you wanted to get the news, and it was always also CNN was thought of being as this like sort of nonpartisan environment for the news. It just showed you what the news was. And then somewhere along the line, it became very editorialized, very opinion based, and very, you know, these people telling you to do your own research, do not do your own research. Like imagine saying, don't read.
- [113:17]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right?
- [113:18]
Joe Rogan
Don't read. You're not smart enough. A.J.
- [113:21]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right.
- [113:21]
Joe Rogan
You think you can go read, Right. Absorb information. You're not smart enough to absorb information. Leave that to the experts.
- [113:28]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Don't listen to Rogan. He takes horse pills. Got that from his doctor. You.
- [113:34]
Joe Rogan
It's also calling it horse dewormer was so stupid because everybody knows it's used on humans.
- [113:39]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Oh, Ivermectin's in my cabinet.
- [113:41]
Joe Rogan
But it's just a simple Google search would tell you that something that's required.
- [113:45]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Medication for foreign service.
- [113:46]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. So it's one of those things where you wonder after something like that has been happening. Well, this seems like a playbook they're really comfortable with using. How many other things have they used this on? Like, what other aspects of society are just complete horseshit.
- [114:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
When did it really start?
- [114:02]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [114:03]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, probably during the forties, maybe even before.
- [114:07]
Joe Rogan
Because if you read War is a Racket by smedley Butler, that was 33.
- [114:12]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
General Butler. Yeah. The business plot general.
- [114:15]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [114:16]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah. He was a very, very honest guy.
- [114:18]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [114:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah. If you guys don't know the business plots worth looking into, that was they tried to recruit him to overthrow the government.
- [114:23]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [114:25]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Because he had all the troops at his disposal.
- [114:27]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. That was wild. They were gonna have a coup.
- [114:30]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
They were gonna have a couple states.
- [114:32]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [114:32]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And nobody has answered for that. That's the JP Morgan's and that whole set.
- [114:38]
Joe Rogan
So this kind of thinking has been going on forever. And then this also kind of gatekeeping of information, like hiding the truth from people in order to preserve narratives, in order to preserve power and authority.
- [114:51]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Well, let's connect. Let's go back to Butler for a quick second. You've got Tesla, who gets funded by JP Morgan to create wireless technology. But Tesla gets a little ambitious and says, I'm going to do wireless communication, but I'm going to take your $150,000. I'm going to do wireless. This energy. We'll do free energy around the world. And Morgan's like, how do you put a meter on that? Tesla's like, what do you mean? Propel mankind forward? Morgan pulls his funding, tells everyone in the investment class, this guy's a kook. And if you invest with him, you don't do business with me. A few years later, Wardenclyffe Tower gets torn down. Tesla dies in poverty.
- [115:26]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [115:27]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And where are those 20 boxes?
- [115:29]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [115:30]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And why was the government so quick to respond to that crime scene?
- [115:33]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, they showed up at that guy's house quick. They gathered up all that information. I wonder what they got from that uncle.
- [115:39]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Uncle? Uncle John Trump there was in charge of that.
- [115:42]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [115:43]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
What did they get in those boxes?
- [115:44]
Joe Rogan
Donald Trump's uncle reviewed Tesla's death ray secrets and found mysterious royal letters.
- [115:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I think they.
- [115:51]
Joe Rogan
Well, he looks like a Trump, doesn't he?
- [115:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
He kind of does.
- [115:53]
Joe Rogan
That's what Trump would look like if he didn't do the comb over.
- [115:55]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Wasn't he working at a Wright Patterson as well? Was he for this?
- [116:02]
Joe Rogan
Wright Patterson is a weird place. Like, they think that that's where one of them is.
- [116:08]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes.
- [116:08]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. You know the. The Nixon story with Jackie Gleason?
- [116:13]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I know that gleason was into UFOs. Tell the story.
- [116:15]
Joe Rogan
The story is Gleason got into UFOs because him and Nixon were drinking one day, and Nixon was like, you want to see some?
- [116:21]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I wish I was drinking with that.
- [116:24]
Joe Rogan
And then he takes him, he flies him out to wherever the base is and shows him a crashed UFO and these bodies that they have in freezers.
- [116:32]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And it was Wright Patterson.
- [116:34]
Joe Rogan
I do not know. I do not know. I don't know if Jackie Gleason ever said the story came from Gleason's wife and it was an article in some sort of a magazine. But then there's the house that Gleason built in upstate New York that looked like a ufo. Like Gleason built a home. Yeah, that was like. Like a disc.
- [116:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I'm gonna look into this. It's such a good story. I wonder where they went.
- [116:56]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Would have been in Homestead Air Force Base.
- [116:59]
Joe Rogan
Might be in Florida in 73.
- [117:01]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
I think that's where they were when that. When they were playing golf and was.
- [117:06]
Joe Rogan
Reportedly shown embalmed bodies of four alien beings.
- [117:11]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
So Nixon exposes UFOs to a civilian, and then it does not go well for Richard Nixon after that.
- [117:17]
Joe Rogan
Well, I think what went badly for Richard Nixon was that Richard Nixon was inquiring as to who killed jfk, and he said he thought, knew. And he was kind of talking about it publicly, and they're like, okay.
- [117:27]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yep.
- [117:28]
Joe Rogan
And they had already, you know, brought in Gerald Ford, kicked out Spiro Agnew. They got rid of him. Gerald Ford, who was also in the Warren Commission Report.
- [117:35]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's right.
- [117:36]
Joe Rogan
And then all of a sudden, Nixon and Watergate happens.
- [117:40]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Nixon, the most popular president of all time.
- [117:43]
Joe Rogan
And it turns out that Bob Woodward was actually an intelligence agent.
- [117:46]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And this is his first project ever, Operation Mockingbird.
- [117:49]
Joe Rogan
And then the people that were involved in the break in, all FBI, G. Gordon Liddy. Yeah, the whole thing's a coup.
- [117:56]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Always a coup, always a set.
- [117:57]
Joe Rogan
And we're all parroting, you know, Nixon was a crook. That guy was a crook. He was this or that. Like, they did a great job. The psyop was wonderful.
- [118:06]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I'm a patsy.
- [118:07]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [118:07]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
They say it over and over.
- [118:09]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. It's all really, really interesting stuff. But it's just, you know, what it boils down to with stuff like your show, like, how much of it is. How much is real, you know, and when you have these mysteries. One of the amazing things about mysteries is you're never gonna run out of topics.
- [118:31]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No.
- [118:32]
Joe Rogan
There's so many of these things.
- [118:33]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And as long as there's a US Government, I'm good. As long as the CIA exists, they're.
- [118:38]
Joe Rogan
Always gonna be hiding something. But the fun ones are always the alien ones. That's the most fun ones, the alien ones, the ancient civilization ones. Like, what do you think when. When you go over the Bob Lazar story? Like, what. What do you. How much of you. How much of you cry's bullshit? How much of. He's like.
- [118:58]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I'm more on the. Hmm side. I think he's the most credible whistleblower because he didn't profit from. Didn't profit. And they. I mean, they prosecuted him for. Run. For running a prostitution ring, you know.
- [119:09]
Joe Rogan
Which Maybe he was.
- [119:10]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Which I think he was. He pled down to pandering, but he.
- [119:14]
Joe Rogan
They also raided him during the Jeremy Corbell documentary. While they're filming the documentary, the FBI raided his facility and they said they were looking for something. And supposedly he has a version or a sample of stable element 115.
- [119:32]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
What?
- [119:33]
Joe Rogan
That's supposedly. Yeah, and that's supposedly what they were looking for. Of course, supposedly he had gotten that from the lab and when he was at S4 and that he had managed to smuggle out a stable chunk of this element 115. And there was a video that George Knapp had from back in the 80s where Lazar was demonstrating how this stuff bends light. And you know what it does? Like, it has weird effects.
- [119:58]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
How soon after that raid was 115 is now called Moscovium. How soon after that raid was 115? I think it was synthesized in Russia.
- [120:08]
Joe Rogan
Well, synthesized by a particle collider. And so when they got it is a very temporary, quickly dissolving form. But they proved its existence. And supposedly what Lazar is saying, wherever these beings are from, they obviously have a completely different environment. And they have a stable version of this element.
- [120:32]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yep.
- [120:32]
Joe Rogan
And this element is crucial to this gravity propulsion system. It's a part of this reactor. It gets bombarded with radiation, produces this gravity field, allows you to just slingshot through the universe.
- [120:46]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I don't know. Are they working to stabilize it? You know, I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, man.
- [120:51]
Joe Rogan
Why would they raid Bob Lazar?
- [120:53]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's that spectrum of believability again. Here's a guy who's being attacked and.
- [120:58]
Joe Rogan
Tormented in the middle of filming the documentary.
- [121:01]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I mean, I just had my first IRS audit. I don't know how you're doing.
- [121:04]
Joe Rogan
Oh, what'd you do?
- [121:05]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I didn't do anything. I don't work in weed anymore.
- [121:08]
Joe Rogan
What do you think they were auditing for you for? When you go over all your episodes.
- [121:15]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I'm sure it's just a coincidence.
- [121:17]
Joe Rogan
What do you think? What do you think are the most problematic?
- [121:22]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Most problematic for me are probably the CIA ones. The one I did that ended with the Agent Orange kind of expose was kind of a dangerous one. It was the dark history of DARPA and all the bad stuff that DARPA's done since its founding. It's done some horrible, horrible, horrible stuff. And that was an episode I was afraid to release. There's been a couple of those MK Ultra is kind of afraid to release because I name names. A scary one was how Lyme disease might have been a lab leak.
- [121:53]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, that's a weird one.
- [121:54]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's.
- [121:55]
Joe Rogan
Bobby Kennedy fully believes that that was.
- [121:57]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Eric Traub was like the chief Nazi bio warfare specialist that was brought here, Operation Paperclip.
- [122:04]
Joe Rogan
And we do. We do know that there have been some studies done where they were trying to devise diseases that they could. Aerial spray, whether it's through bugs or something, onto a population, overwhelm their medical system so they'd be easier to defeat.
- [122:21]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's documented.
- [122:22]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. The entire enemy. Super weak. Everybody's weak over there.
- [122:26]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And then also documented is some ticks got out. Some ticks got out. So it's. You know, when you look at Lyme, Connecticut as ground zero and it just spreads from there, and there was no Lyme disease before, that's a scary one to release.
- [122:43]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [122:44]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
But whenever I get into Operation Paperclip, I always hammer home, these are Nazis. You know, Wernher von Braun is not a hero. He's a hero, but he's not a hero. You know, a lot of these guys, these are all evil dudes. And most of the Operation Paperclip was just bringing over intelligence assets. They don't like talking about that. It's the 1200 scientists that we learned about. It's not the 6000 intelligence agents that just lived here until the 70s and 80s, right.
- [123:10]
Joe Rogan
With their fucking dueling scars on their faces.
- [123:14]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Mm.
- [123:16]
Joe Rogan
Scary looking dudes. Like right out of Indiana Jones.
- [123:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. SS on the shoulder.
- [123:20]
Joe Rogan
And that's what was a part of NASA that was running NASA. Wernher von Braun was an actual Nazi.
- [123:26]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And he was the head of NASA and SS Nazi. So the V1 rocket program killed 3,000 people in London, but killed 30,000 Jewish slaves building the rocket. You know, 10 times more people died building the thing. And if you didn't work hard enough in the rocket factory, they would just hang you from the rafters. But Von Braun said he didn't know anything about it, and all of his team said we didn't know anything about it.
- [123:51]
Joe Rogan
Okay, well, that's convenient.
- [123:53]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Well, every time I bring up someone who's from there, I just remind everybody, these are Nazis, these are liars, these are bad dudes. That doesn't mean, you know, they're not. They didn't do amazing things for America, because you could do both.
- [124:06]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, that's what's weird.
- [124:07]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, the V1 rocket eventually becomes Saturn V, which takes us to the moon. Allegedly. Allegedly.
- [124:13]
Joe Rogan
Allegedly.
- [124:14]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah.
- [124:14]
Joe Rogan
That's my favorite one.
- [124:16]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Same.
- [124:16]
Joe Rogan
Did you ever see the episode I did with Bart Sobral?
- [124:19]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes. And I talked to Bart from time to time.
- [124:21]
Joe Rogan
Boy, he's all in.
- [124:23]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
All in for decades. Eventually, I'm gonna do conversation podcasts and he'll be one of the first guys I have on.
- [124:30]
Joe Rogan
I had Dinner with Bart Sobral in like the year 2000, 2003 or something like that. I had dinner with him in Los Angeles. I. I had seen A Funny Thing Happen on the Way to the Moon, which. What year was that great documentary? What year was A Funny Thing Happen on the Way to the Moon? Released So it was like shortly thereafter, somehow. I do. I do not even remember how I got connected with him, but we had dinner in Los Angeles at this Italian restaurant. I sat down with him.
- [125:00]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
2000.
- [125:00]
Joe Rogan
2001. 2001. Yeah. So it was probably around 2003 that. That Bart and I had dinner. And then, you know, 22 years later, I had him on the podcast.
- [125:10]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I. I need to look.
- [125:11]
Joe Rogan
Still going after it?
- [125:12]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Oh, yeah, yeah. He still emails me and I'm like, bart, I'll have you on. I'm just. I'm still building the studio.
- [125:16]
Joe Rogan
Well, he's so all in on this. And the more you talk to him, the more you go, God damn it, he might be right.
- [125:23]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
He might be. I debunk a lot of his claims.
- [125:25]
Joe Rogan
Which ones?
- [125:25]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Not all of them. You know, like the parallel shadows and how there shouldn't. How a shadow on the moon should be completely black, but that's not really true. And shadows, well, things are reflective and.
- [125:37]
Joe Rogan
The surface is reflective. That's part of the issue. But the parallel shadows are fucking weird. Like, you could find a reason why these intersecting shadows could exist, but it also could be more than one source of light.
- [125:51]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Sure.
- [125:52]
Joe Rogan
It's. There's more. There's a lot of weirdness to it.
- [125:55]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And shadows are not parallel. They don't work that way. Shadows disappear to the. To the. To the horizon.
- [126:01]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [126:01]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, there are no parallel shadows.
- [126:03]
Joe Rogan
Right. But going in completely different directions is very odd.
- [126:06]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It is. It's odd.
- [126:09]
Joe Rogan
That's not nearly as odd as that. I mean, there's so many different things. You know, there's. There's so many things like how goofy it looks when that craft lifts off from the moon and takes off into space. It's wobbling around like it's on a fucking.
- [126:24]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Looks like it's on a string. And the camera tracks it nicely.
- [126:28]
Joe Rogan
It pans from where?
- [126:31]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
From Houston. From Houston with what? 7 second delay or whatever?
- [126:36]
Joe Rogan
How about the fact that Nixon is on the phone with them in real time? In real time. Like, you don't got a delay. That would be with 1969 technology, communicating. One of the reasons why Gus Grisham, you know, those are the big theories. That Grush Grisham was murdered because he wasn't willing to go along with it. Gus Grisham hung a lemon on the lunar module because he wasn't able to communicate with the tower from Earth. The communication system wasn't working. And he's like, this is a fucking lemon. And he puts a lemon on a coat hanger and Hangs it on the thing. And then.
- [127:12]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Well, let's go back and look at the original films and we. Maybe we'll learn something.
- [127:16]
Joe Rogan
Oh, they. They don't have them anymore.
- [127:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Gone.
- [127:18]
Joe Rogan
They're gone.
- [127:19]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
They don't know.
- [127:19]
Joe Rogan
What about the telemetry data? That's really important.
- [127:21]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Gone. The episode I did on the moon, which is a fun one. I even have a NASA scientist saying, we don't know how to redo the technology we just lost. It didn't write anything down or nothing.
- [127:34]
Joe Rogan
And then there's the reality of the Van Allen radiation belts.
- [127:38]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's true. It could be explained scientifically.
- [127:41]
Joe Rogan
Can it?
- [127:43]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The real the radiation is high particles, high voltage, all that. But they're spread wide apart, so you just gotta go really fast through them.
- [127:50]
Joe Rogan
Right. But it took hours to get through it.
- [127:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It did. It did. But they still were moving fast. Look.
- [127:55]
Joe Rogan
Or it would kill everybody.
- [127:56]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Or it would kill everybody. This is one of these things.
- [127:59]
Joe Rogan
Nobody but the Apollo astronauts ever got through that. What I would say is, like, they never even flew a chicken through that shit and had it come back alive.
- [128:05]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No.
- [128:06]
Joe Rogan
And they're just gonna try it out with people.
- [128:07]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Laika the dog did not survive when they threw Laika up there.
- [128:11]
Joe Rogan
Well, how about Operation Starfish prime, where they. They shot a nuke into there to try to blow a hole through it and it wound up making it more radioactive.
- [128:19]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Of course, they thought they were going to blow a hole right.
- [128:23]
Joe Rogan
In the Van island radiation belt so they could just pop through that hole.
- [128:26]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. And. And now thanks to that, we've got the South Atlantic anomaly where there's just no protection anymore. We appreciate all that.
- [128:33]
Joe Rogan
They pulled out the power in Hawaii, right? Yeah. They fucked up the grid. They were detonating nukes in space. Really crazy people in the 1950s and 60s were buck wild.
- [128:44]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
They were.
- [128:45]
Joe Rogan
They were just. They had so much power. There was no Internet, there was no oversight. And they were doing things that, like, were completely new, like nuclear bombs. And they're like, let's see if it does this.
- [128:55]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Even Oppenheimer, they didn't know it was gonna happen.
- [128:57]
Joe Rogan
They had a more than 0% possibility that it was gonna cause a chain reaction that would destroy the entire environment of the Earth.
- [129:07]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes.
- [129:07]
Joe Rogan
And they were like, let's see.
- [129:09]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Well, we gotta try it.
- [129:11]
Joe Rogan
There's only one way to know. Detonate it.
- [129:14]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And something like Bikini Atoll, which I think was Castle Bravo, was like three times more powerful than they thought. You know, it's like we're going for 10 kilotons, but we got 30. Dude, you gotta carry the one. Be careful. Be careful. Just be careful. I don't even know why we mess with it.
- [129:33]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's. Well, it's too late.
- [129:35]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Too late.
- [129:35]
Joe Rogan
The genie's out of the bottle. So if you had a bet, if you had $100,000 and you can give a bet. We went to the moon. We didn't go to the moon.
- [129:47]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That money's not enough. But gun to the head.
- [129:50]
Joe Rogan
Gun to the head.
- [129:51]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Gun to the head. We went to the moon without people. I would. That's what I would go with. But let me preface by saying my head, I'm like a bobblehead. I go back and forth and I can be convinced one way or the other. It's a very complicated issue. Like, I can be convinced both ways.
- [130:09]
Joe Rogan
There's also the weird footage. So it looks like they're on wires where they're pulled up when they fall down.
- [130:14]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You could see the reflections.
- [130:16]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, yeah.
- [130:17]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I get into weird. It's a good episode. I get into all of that. I cover covered Bart. Buzz Aldrin knows how to throw a shot.
- [130:24]
Joe Rogan
Kinda get his hip into it, old shoulders. But that's also the thing, is that like every other technology from 1969 is cheaper, easier, and faster to reproduce today. Except the moon landing, right? That no one has ever done it again. No one has ever even been to deep. Not human beings have ever even been a deep space.
- [130:46]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
There's no. I don't know why. You know, if we could 3D print anything, why don't we send the 3D printer up into orbit? And then every time Elon launches a starlink, just bring some substrate, bring some wire, and just deliver it there every time. Because you're going to do 10,000 of them. Just bring some wire, bring some wire, bring some aluminum, and we can just build the stuff in orbit. We don't have to worry about escaping gravity. Just build stuff up. 3D, print stuff in orbit.
- [131:12]
Joe Rogan
Hmm. It sounds a little more complicated than you're making it out to be, but I see what you're saying. You know, the film footage, the lost footage that Sabral had, is also very compelling, where it looks like they're filming the moon from, you know, 30,000 miles out. But then when they pull the covers off the windows, it shows you they're actually in near Earth orbit.
- [131:34]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It fills up the whole window. And they even say in that film, we've got the camera right up against the window. No one can get in between it.
- [131:42]
Joe Rogan
But then someone walks in the front.
- [131:44]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And then you see what looks like a piece of plastic and then everything opens up.
- [131:50]
Joe Rogan
Uh huh. That's a hard one to explain.
- [131:53]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It is.
- [131:53]
Joe Rogan
And not for public display.
- [131:55]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Not for. Right. That's absolutely right.
- [131:57]
Joe Rogan
And also, why would you ever delete all of the original film? What? Why would you destroy the original film? Why would they lose the telemetry data.
- [132:10]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And we don't even have a direct feed? Because they broadcast the feed on a wall and then pointed a TV camera at the wall. Yeah, and that's what we see.
- [132:19]
Joe Rogan
That's why it looks so shitty on television in 1969, because the networks were.
- [132:23]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Like, hey, can we get the live feed? NASA's like, yeah, you don't need that.
- [132:26]
Joe Rogan
It's so weird.
- [132:27]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's weird.
- [132:27]
Joe Rogan
It's a weird one. It's also just weird that we keep saying we're gonna go back and we still never even get out of Earth's gravity or never even got out of Earth's atmosphere, Earth's orbit, rather.
- [132:38]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
As soon as the Chinese start mining like helium too, or whatever, we'll get, we'll get there.
- [132:43]
Joe Rogan
People always say, oh well, there's photographs of the lunar lander on the moon. You can see it like, how'd they get that buggy up there? How'd they piece that buggy together? Yeah, little tiny ass lunar module.
- [132:57]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Because you can't see the tracks up there. If, you know, if, if you believe the stuff, right?
- [133:01]
Joe Rogan
What does that mean? How easy is. There's, there's video of me selling Kentucky Fried Chicken.
- [133:05]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Oh, I gotta look that up.
- [133:06]
Joe Rogan
There's like. You know what I'm saying?
- [133:07]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I gotta write that down.
- [133:08]
Joe Rogan
Might not even be Kentucky Fried Chicken, but it's like there's AI video of me hawking all kinds of stuff that I've never even seen.
- [133:14]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I know, you show up in my feed, I'm like, oh, he's selling chicken.
- [133:17]
Joe Rogan
It's all fake. But, but that is easy to fake. Cuz they blurry, blurry nonsense photos.
- [133:23]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
In my episode on the face on Mars, I show exactly how NASA copy and pasted cloud formations. You literally see it's the same cloud formations. And then you see the Mars photos. They copy and pasted chunks on Mars. They did that. Like I didn't make that up. I just.
- [133:39]
Joe Rogan
What do you mean by that they copy and pasted chunks on Mars.
- [133:42]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You've got this Martian rock face.
- [133:45]
Joe Rogan
Cydonia.
- [133:46]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Cydonia is where the face was and the alleged city and all this square. And the square's crazy square.
- [133:52]
Joe Rogan
But that's a Recent one that we've been seeing.
- [133:54]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yep.
- [133:55]
Joe Rogan
That one's nuts.
- [133:56]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Cydunia was one of the original landing places, and they changed it at the last minute. Why land there and go to the face? Let's see. Because if you don't know the story about the face on Mars, the first image is. It does look like a face. And then suddenly the images got blurrier and then it was just kind of a plateau. It was, you know, pareidolia. It wasn't really a face.
- [134:19]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [134:19]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Well, then land there. Drive, drive. You know, Sojourner over there. Whatever. Let's.
- [134:24]
Joe Rogan
What's crazy is that the face is right down the street from the square.
- [134:28]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes.
- [134:29]
Joe Rogan
The square to me is way more compelling than the face. Because if the second images were more clear and it really is just. How do you say that word again?
- [134:36]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Pareidolia.
- [134:36]
Joe Rogan
Pareidolia. That's really what it is. That kind of makes sense because the first one's like real blurry and shitty and it was from the 70s.
- [134:43]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
True.
- [134:43]
Joe Rogan
Right. But this square is nuts.
- [134:46]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right? It looks. It looks geometrical.
- [134:48]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Right angles and an actual square, or at least similar to a square. It looks like a structure made out of right angles. And it's on the fucking moon. I showed it to Elon Musk. He's like, oh, very interesting. We should probably go up there, look around.
- [135:02]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
We should, yeah. I mean, they're finally admitting that Mars used to have an atmosphere and oceans, giant oceans.
- [135:09]
Joe Rogan
They're finally frozen water on Mars. Yeah. Which is like, okay.
- [135:12]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yep.
- [135:13]
Joe Rogan
Well, if we go back millions and millions of years, like, what. What did it look like? What was going on there?
- [135:19]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Remember they sent Joe McMonigle to Remote View back on Mars.
- [135:23]
Joe Rogan
Oh, what did he say?
- [135:24]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
He said he saw giant tall beings there in a very advanced society. And Joe McMonagle is part of the Project Stargate remote viewer. So that he goes into his thing and he's drawing the aliens and the. The cities and all that, but he didn't know where he was looking. They, you know, they wouldn't tell you at first. And then he's done. He comes out of his trance. Whatever opens the envelope and it says Mars with coordinates 1 million BC or something. He said he saw stuff. And Stargate again. Ingo Swann saw all kinds of stuff on the far side of the moon, which I don't see. I don't hear. Covered a lot with Ingo, but he remote viewed the moon because he always wanted to do more stuff. He's like, I don't want to look at a bridge. I want to go to the moon. And he said he saw structures on the far side of the moon that sound a lot like Carl wolf disclosed in 2001.
- [136:14]
Joe Rogan
What did he disclose?
- [136:15]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Carl Wolfe, Air Force Airman. He's basically a technician. Think of a Xerox repairman. He has to fix some imaging equipment for NASA dod. It's images from the Moon Surveyor. So he goes in, it's a dark room, a guy's working there. The guy's like, carl, look at this. It's pictures of the dark side of the moon. He sees domes, towers, roads, all kinds of stuff. And he can't believe it. And Carl goes home and he's told his wife, I can't wait to see this on the news. This is crazy. What we found on the, like, this is civilizations on the moon and it just, it just goes away. And Carl Wolf said he saw that if you remote viewing, no photographs.
- [136:57]
Joe Rogan
He saw photographs.
- [136:58]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
He saw photographs of it. He saw photographs.
- [137:00]
Joe Rogan
Who took the photographs?
- [137:01]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It was the Moon Surveyor satellite that takes pictures all the time. It's like we have images, we have stuff around the moon. I don't know why there's no webcam, you know, I don't know why we can't just tap into the end satellite up there. Something. They're there, just send a signal back. I read that they just got like 5G working in space. Send us a signal, put a webcam on the iss, let us tune in. So car Wolf saw that stuff. Ingo Swann saw the same things, but he saw actual beings there. And he said they were able to sense his consciousness and he like snapped out of it. He said aliens are on the far side of the moon and they are not our friends. So very interesting story, Ingo Swann. Very interesting cat.
- [137:49]
Joe Rogan
So what took these photographs?
- [137:53]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The Moon Surveyor, Lunar Surveyor satellite.
- [137:57]
Joe Rogan
None of that stuff's ever been released.
- [137:59]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Oh, they released a lot of images from the far side, but they release what they release. That's why we know there's fewer impacts on the far side, because we've seen those images.
- [138:07]
Joe Rogan
But there's no images of these domes or whatever?
- [138:10]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No, no. I've seen some that maybe are faked that look pretty compelling. I forget what episode I had to show them in, but when I found them, I was. It was mind blowing and I can't find them again for some reason, like I. I wanted them for another episode and I can't find the photos, which is always suspicious to me. It's like this. It's like suddenly the thing is blurry off, off of Malibu. You just can't find the stuff. But, you know, my gut tells me something's going on up there, someone's aware of it, and I just, I'm dying to know what it is.
- [138:45]
Joe Rogan
Would be unbelievable if Mars was the first planet that had life before Earth was capable of supporting life. It reached a very high level of sophistication, then started seeding Earth.
- [138:58]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. Panspermia theory.
- [138:59]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [139:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I believe we have at least one rock from Mars that just landed here. I think we have one of those. So from maybe a giant impact or something through some of Mars over here.
- [139:10]
Joe Rogan
Dum dum dum. But the idea, I think, is that their atmosphere was deteriorating or that they were getting further and further from the sun.
- [139:19]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Their magnetic field was weakening, strips away the atmosphere.
- [139:23]
Joe Rogan
And so this would be the thing. If you were a super advanced civilization, the race would be get so advanced that you could leave your planet.
- [139:31]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes.
- [139:32]
Joe Rogan
And that's the only way you're going to survive because eventually your planet is going to move over millions of years further and further away from the sun, not able to inhabit life anymore.
- [139:42]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. So maybe send your DNA or whatever to the third rock.
- [139:47]
Joe Rogan
Or Anunnaki.
- [139:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Or Anunnaki.
- [139:51]
Joe Rogan
That's the good one. Yeah.
- [139:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
They show up everywhere.
- [139:53]
Joe Rogan
That's the ultimate one.
- [139:54]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That is the big one. Anunnaki is the big one.
- [139:57]
Joe Rogan
That's. That's a good one. That's. That's one that makes you go home.
- [140:01]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Because it shows up everywhere. It shows up in the Bible, it shows up in the Mahabharata, shows up in ancient Chinese literature, shows up everywhere. Not always called the Anunnaki, but the Anunnaki. And then they have their servile species that could be the Nephilim, could be the giants. And then they take these primitive humans, give them just enough intelligence to mine, you know, to mine the gold. It's part of the lore. Yeah, it's a good one.
- [140:30]
Joe Rogan
Oh, it's the best one. It's the best one because when you do look at ancient Sumer and you look at their detailed map of the solar system, you're like, what the fuck is that? Like, how did they figure that out?
- [140:43]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right.
- [140:44]
Joe Rogan
Like you're talking about 6,000 years ago. They had depictions of the planets all in the proper area. Like they weren't the exact right size, but like the bigger ones were in the place where the bigger ones would be, the smaller ones in the place where small ones would be. It was representative and. And the sun looks like a sun, like it's got the rays around, right. Showing that this is the center of the solar system.
- [141:05]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. And this is how many thousands of years before Copernicus? Right.
- [141:10]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [141:10]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Didn't even know. Something I don't think doesn't get enough attention is when these ancient cultures are obsessed with equinoxes. A lot of people think equinoxes when day and night are the same, but that's not what that is. When day and night are the same, it's called the equilibrium. And it's different for everybody on Earth depending where you are. An equinox is when the sun is over the center of the Earth's equator. Well, how did you know there was an equator? So Stonehenge is aligned to the equinoxes. How did you know there was an equator? And how was the pyramid? The sizes are directly divisible to a number like 4 3, 2, 00 that could be factored in to calculate the circumference of the Earth. So you can calculate the equinox. How did they do that?
- [141:59]
Joe Rogan
Right. And how is it pointed to true north, south, east, and west?
- [142:01]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
How do they do that?
- [142:02]
Joe Rogan
Why does it mirror the stars of.
- [142:04]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The Orion Belt, but mirrors them 30,000 years ago? Because of precession.
- [142:09]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [142:11]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
So I'm in the camp that the Egyptians found the pyramids, not built them. But I'm glad Zahi's not here.
- [142:20]
Joe Rogan
Well, that would get you to the ancient civilization theory. But when you're looking at an ancient civilization that is as complex as Egypt, and then you factor in the Anunnaki story and all these other things, you got to think, why were the Egyptians so advanced? Where did they learn this from?
- [142:37]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Christopher Dunn has the answer.
- [142:40]
Joe Rogan
The power plant.
- [142:41]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Power plant?
- [142:42]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Is that what you think?
- [142:44]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, it's one of my favorite episodes because I. You know, you can either watch my stupid thing with the fish or the better thing is to just buy Chris's books and read the science. Don't be a sheep. The next one's gonna have taxes.
- [143:00]
Joe Rogan
Arthur, for people who don't know, if you haven't watched the show, hecklefish talks shit from the aquarium during the entire show. It's really a funny little. It makes the show fun because it's like shows. You're not totally taking it seriously. You have a talking fish who talk shit to you the entire time.
- [143:16]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
What I'm trying to do is take weird topics, complex topics, break them down, make them accessible to everybody, have a good time, get you thinking on your Own. If I get things wrong, that's okay. As long as you go out and just get interested in stuff. That's what I'm trying to do. Have fun and get you interested.
- [143:31]
Joe Rogan
Have you been looking at all under the structures underneath the pyramid?
- [143:35]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes. I'm skeptical of that research because if you look at the imaging, I don't see the coils or any of that stuff. I don't see it. They also said they found the tomb of Nefertiti. No, the tomb of Osiris. It just looked like splotches on radar. And they also. They haven't released any of that information to the scientific community. Nothing's peer reviewed. But when it first hit the news, I was like, that supports the power plant theory, the coils and all that. But I have a feeling that their research will be debunked. Hope I'm wrong.
- [144:08]
Joe Rogan
Really. Well, they released more of it. And because they released more of it and the conversation that Graham Hancock and Brian Murarescu had with them, they were initially skeptical as well. They've come around more to thinking that these guys might be onto something because they've done this multiple times now with multiple scans. They keep getting the same results. And it does kind of look like coils when you look at the images. First of all, the pillars. The fact these pillars are uniform and they see. And then the fact that the structure goes down 2km into the earth.
- [144:39]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yep.
- [144:40]
Joe Rogan
Like maybe people 4500 years ago were so motivated. Zoe said that it's like this is the project of the entire country, the pride of the country. Okay, maybe, maybe. But two kilometers down, like, we're starting to get real crazy.
- [144:57]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I mean, if you look at the. Like the Temple Khufu pyramid is perfect. And then you look at the pyramids that were built later that we know were Egyptian built. And it's like the Temu version. It's like you're not even. It's like a mess. It's just a pile of rocks.
- [145:12]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [145:13]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Where the Great Pyramid is precise. And there's no reasons for these different chambers and the chemical residue.
- [145:22]
Joe Rogan
Why.
- [145:22]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And why are there copper rods going down into the aquifer? Which is exactly the technology Tesla was using at Wharncliffe Tower. The same exact technology. Why? You know, there's hydrochloric acid. We have evidence of that. And we've got the zinc sulfide, and it creates hydrogen atoms that go up the gallery. And then there's an opening that's exactly the right wavelength for hydrogen to flow through. And it resonates at 440Hz, and it makes an F sharp chord. And you've got the. It's tuned inside the king's chamber to exactly that cord. Or, you know, maybe it's just a place for a dead guy. You know, why use rose quartz, which is so highly. You know, rose granite is so dense with quartz. It's very rare, but it creates a lot of piezoelectricity when you apply pressure to it. And hydrogen could do that if you. If you pumped it through the king's chamber.
- [146:11]
Joe Rogan
It's so fascinating to me that the gatekeepers are so. They're so reluctant to even consider any possibility that it might have been something other than what they've initially asserted.
- [146:23]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's frustrating, but it ruins their career and their reputation. It's like everything you said was wrong over time.
- [146:30]
Joe Rogan
I have a buddy who just went to Egypt, and he hired these two archaeologists to take them on a tour. And both of them were saying, there is no way the actual mainstream story is accurate. They're like, there's no way. Like, this stuff is beyond. And then as he was, like, going through it with him, he said he was just blown away. He said, I haven't been. But he said, you can look at it all day on television and on your laptop when you go there, you're just like, what the.
- [146:57]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I'd love to see it.
- [146:58]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, we should go together.
- [146:59]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Let's do it.
- [147:00]
Joe Rogan
Let's go. Let's go. Zahi wants me to go with him, but I just don't think I could. I think after an hour, I'd be like, dude, I gotta get away from you.
- [147:08]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah.
- [147:08]
Joe Rogan
Freaking me out.
- [147:09]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
He'll ruin everything.
- [147:10]
Joe Rogan
I discovered this. This is my discovery. Yeah. Just.
- [147:15]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
He didn't even mention the limestone from Tor. Didn't even touch on it.
- [147:20]
Joe Rogan
What's the significance of that?
- [147:22]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's a great insulator of electricity. It's also mined from very far away. We know it was definitely there. Herodotus talked about the limestone pyramids that could be seen from the mountains of Arabia. So Herodotus, they were still there. We know that the limestone facing was there because a lot of it was looted after a couple of earthquakes. They built bridges out of it. You can go touch it. It's there. But he didn't talk about it. But if the pyramid power plant theory is true, then you use limestone as an insulator. Inside, you've got the granite, which creates this piezoelectricity. And then you've got this other limestone in between that kind of keeps Everything modulated.
- [148:00]
Joe Rogan
So if it was a power plant, like, what was it powering and how was it doing that?
- [148:05]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's the big problem I have is, you know, so if Tesla wanted to project this energy into the ionosphere, and then we can. Everyone can tap into it with some type of receiver, like a radio, but there's no evidence I can find of them powering anything. So we can make the argument that maybe if the capstone were gold, this energy could resonate through the center of the pyramid, come up through the golden capstone, and then go straight into the ionosphere. And we know that the pyramid will resonate at certain frequencies and amplify it. That's been Tested at about 200 meters is the ideal wavelength. But the only other theory is the obelisks, at some point were these receivers. But there's no evidence that they powered anything. But maybe they used the energy for something different. I don't know.
- [148:50]
Joe Rogan
And if we're looking at the wrong timeline, if we're not really looking at 2500 BC, if we're looking at 30,000 BC or something even before that, which is also a weird thing that Zahi dismissed. He dismissed this idea of the Kings list that goes back 30,000 years.
- [149:07]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right?
- [149:07]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [149:08]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And he says that just MIT.
- [149:12]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, we know, exactly. Also, he said he didn't believe in carbon dating, which is like. Yeah, that's convenient.
- [149:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's convenient.
- [149:19]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [149:19]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Do not believe in carbon dating. And what about rock dating that, you know, that is. That is a thing with certain types of rock. Limestone, not so much, but something like igneous rock. You can get a pretty good idea.
- [149:32]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. The whole thing is very weird. It's so weird because it's so vast and so spectacular that no matter what you think, no matter what theories you have, you still have to look and go, how the. Like, it's so big, it's so nutty, that you can't even imagine people making it.
- [149:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right.
- [149:50]
Joe Rogan
Not people as like, we consider people today like if a civilization today. If we. Let's say for some reason no one had ever visited a part of the Earth, and then they went to a part of the Earth and they saw people with these structures today. We'd be like, what happened? How did you do this?
- [150:10]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
We would think they would be wizards, wizards above.
- [150:12]
Joe Rogan
And be 2,300,000 stones hundreds of miles through the mountains. You carried the big ones for the. Inside the king's chamber. You put them up 130ft up in.
- [150:24]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The air with a ramp. Yeah, I don't think I Don't think so.
- [150:28]
Joe Rogan
But it's all just if they did, where'd that technology go? Where that construction knowledge go? Like, where did their engineering go? Like, how were people that advanced that long ago?
- [150:40]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, I like the acoustic levitation theory is an interesting one, where they use sound vibration to lift heavy objects. You know, we see that occurring throughout history as part of lore. But even in the 1930s, a British. Maybe he was an archaeologist, naturalist, went to see Buddhist monks, and using instruments, he watched them levitate heavy objects. And there's film of it. This is. This is all the legend. And when he went back to the uk, they seized the film, but they were using instruments and chanting to levitate these rocks up a cliff face to build whatever they were building.
- [151:17]
Joe Rogan
Well, how about that wacky dude in Florida that made the Coral Castle?
- [151:20]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Oh, yeah, that's Edward Lee Scanlan. I found. It's hard to find, but I found him using levers and pulleys and stuff to do it. It's still amazing what he did.
- [151:29]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. By himself.
- [151:30]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
By himself. He's like 5 foot 1, 90 pounds, and I think that door is tons. And you can push it with your finger. That door in the Coral Castle is amazing.
- [151:41]
Joe Rogan
And supposedly did it for his girlfriend.
- [151:43]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I didn't read that.
- [151:45]
Joe Rogan
His beloved. Yeah, he did. To impress a lady.
- [151:48]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You went too far, man. You don't have to do that. Just. You just buy a nice car. Don't do the. She doesn't care.
- [151:55]
Joe Rogan
Anybody could buy a nice car. I'm gonna rock this chick's world.
- [151:59]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Literally gonna rock her.
- [152:00]
Joe Rogan
She's gonna see my cruel castle. This motherfucker's the one.
- [152:04]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
She bailed. She. You. You bail. If a dude builds you a castle.
- [152:08]
Joe Rogan
Like, look at the time. Gotta go. Yeah. When you do these shows and, you know, you've amassed, like, this channel now with all these, like, fascinating things, which ones to you are the most exciting to create?
- [152:26]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
The most exciting.
- [152:27]
Joe Rogan
Like, one of the ones you get.
- [152:28]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Really jazzed about, the ones that kind of shatter my belief system. Like the hollow moon or the crop circles.
- [152:37]
Joe Rogan
The idea of the moon being hollow is because they shot something into the moon and it rang like a bell.
- [152:44]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right, Right. Well, a few things. One was they deliberately crashed their rocket into the moon. And there was seismology. You know, seismographs were placed in the moon to check what would happen. And it did reverberate, but mainstream science says it reverberates because it's extremely dry. And that's why sound waves travel like that. That's what they say. But other scientists have said there it seems to be, if it's not hollow, there are hollow cavities within the moon.
- [153:15]
Joe Rogan
And why do they think that?
- [153:16]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Just. Just the way that the sound travels and just how there are parts of the moon where the surface dirt is. Let me get this right. Where the surface dirt is older than the dirt underneath, the soil on top is older. And the only way you can do that is through excavation. Hmm. Moonquakes. Yeah, you know, and the moon had volcanoes on it at some point.
- [153:41]
Joe Rogan
Passive seismic experiment sized monitors replaced during the Apollo 12 mission. Remained active until 1977, recording both natural and human made moonquake alike. Human made moonquake also. Why are they doing that?
- [153:56]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right.
- [153:56]
Joe Rogan
Why are you trying to make moonquakes? In fact, moonquakes happen fairly regularly. A space debris like asteroids hit the moon more frequently than Earth because the moon's atmosphere is much less dense right above it.
- [154:06]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
It described that the Apollo 12 mission was the first human made moonquake. Like they detonated or they crashed the module back on the surface.
- [154:14]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
One ton of tnt. Good idea.
- [154:16]
Joe Rogan
Oh, wow. First human made moonquake to take place. The PSE size monitors. Oh, seismometers. Size seismometers record the resulting vibrations, which were much bigger and lasted much longer than the scientists had anticipated. They were far different from the earthquake vibrations were familiar with.
- [154:36]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
And that next paragraph said it's because the moon is 60% as dense. Which doesn't mean it's hollow, but it's just different.
- [154:42]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right, Right. So if the collision theory is true, which is the mainstream theory, then the moon was made mostly out of Earth's mantle, which will be less dense is what it just kind of clipped us. Yeah, but the moon is weird.
- [154:57]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. So the hollow moon one freaks you out. Crop circles.
- [155:02]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Crop circles. You know, those are the fun ones. I do. The conspiracy, the government conspiracy ones are interesting to me, but a lot of times they make me angry. So it's not really fun, but I think it's important.
- [155:15]
Joe Rogan
Like the CIA stuff, MKUltra, MK Ultra.
- [155:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And Agent Orange, that stuff really makes me angry. The DARPA episode, I end up kind of losing my temper and crying a little at the end, which I didn't mean to do. And it was just in the course of the research, just that's what happens. Things start to unfold. I just wanted to see DARPA's history. And as I'm learning about it, it's like, oh, these guys did some bad, bad stuff. And then when you get to Vietnam and you Know, you got the chemical company, Dow Chemical and DuPont and all this, creating ancient blue, Asian purple, ancient orange.
- [155:50]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [155:51]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And, and more. I mean, more American soldiers got sick than actually got killed in the conflict. You know, I dedicated the episode to my father in law who had all kinds of injuries from Agent Orange. The government denied any responsibility for years. They finally agreed to a settlement in 1981. And he applied for his benefits and the government made do. They kept their word. He got his settlement 40 years later.
- [156:14]
Joe Rogan
Jesus. And even that's never going to be enough to get rid of all those health problems.
- [156:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. So your country needs you and you answer the call. And then when you need your country.
- [156:23]
Joe Rogan
Take a number and your country needs you. Based on a false flag.
- [156:27]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Gulf of Tonkin.
- [156:28]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Which is also very dark. Lbg, they fake attacks to get us to go to war. And then there's Operation Northwoods, which is a really wonky one.
- [156:39]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That was the one to get us into Cuba. That was probably the beginning of the end for Kennedy because I believe Kennedy put a stop on north woods and.
- [156:48]
Joe Rogan
Bay of Pigs, wouldn't allow air support.
- [156:51]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. He got screwed on that. And the Bay of Pigs, that was the end. That was where Kennedy says, we need to start again. We got to dismantle this and start again. I can't rely on my intelligence community. And Eisenhower, he talked to Eisenhower a lot. And Eisenhower gave him advice and said, watch out for the CIA. Keep an eye on them. Because remember when Eisenhower left, he gave that famous farewell address where he said, beware of the military industrial complex. You make war profitable, you're going to have more war. Because America was never like that before. You know, we kept. We had a defensive military, not an aggressive military forever.
- [157:26]
Joe Rogan
Profit is where the devil does his best work, right?
- [157:29]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah, that's right. From the Bible, isn't it?
- [157:31]
Joe Rogan
Might be, but it's really what it is. If evil is real justification for evil, like if you have a compartmentalized situation like they do with corporations, where you have this diffusion of responsibility because you have a bunch of people that are all working together. Hey, it's not my. I'm just working. This is part of my job. And then you have a responsibility to shareholders to make maximum profits every quarter. And then you justify all kinds of things and you get rewarded. Great job. You did a great job, AJ we like how you made those profits. You got a nice fat bonus. And then, you know, you drink yourself to sleep every night.
- [158:05]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
My, My stepsister just retired from, from Grumman. She worked in top secret programs she won't tell the family what she did.
- [158:11]
Joe Rogan
Dun, dun, dun. She wants to live. Good. Keep your mouth shut, lady.
- [158:16]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Keep it shut. Lisa, be quiet.
- [158:18]
Joe Rogan
I'd keep my mouth shut.
- [158:20]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
She never said a word.
- [158:21]
Joe Rogan
Why would you? No, not worth it. No, it's not worth it.
- [158:24]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Pension's too good.
- [158:25]
Joe Rogan
Also, like, you don't want to die. You know, it's just like they get rid of people. If. If you're in the business of killing people, which is what military contractors are, they are in the business of killing you. If you get in the business of killing people, they're like, oh, we just have to kill one more person. Then we can kill a whole bunch of other people and make a lot of money.
- [158:45]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah, of course.
- [158:46]
Joe Rogan
Oh, look, he had a heart attack. Whoopsies.
- [158:49]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
He fell out of a hotel window. The Frank Olson murder is taught by Israeli intelligence as the perfect murder, which we thought Frank Olson was part of MPA Ultra and was starting to have second doubts about it. So they sent him to a psychiatrist who he did know was actually worked for Sidney Gottlieb and was, you know, into programming. And he was freaking out. And he's up in a hotel room with. With someone else from MK and he falls out the window. But if you look at the window where he fell, it's like, you know, two feet by two feet. You can't just jump out the window. So he was found on the sidewalk by the doorman. That's Frank Olson worth looking up.
- [159:31]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
For. Talking to his family afterwards. They gave him 750 grand.
- [159:35]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's right. And it took. And it took a lot of claim. Right, right. And it was, be quiet, we'll give you the money, but be quiet about it. Yeah, So, I mean, it's all. It's all real and it's just.
- [159:53]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, the. Just the stuff that's undeniable is enough to make you just go, whoa, what is. What is happening? What is. What is really going on behind the scenes?
- [160:02]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, I don't. The MVA Ultra, the testimonies from the women is really heartbreaking to watch them. You know, the sexual abuse that they endured for years at that. You know, the. Whatever that was, that lodge in the. On the water near D.C. and just. Just tortured and crazy stuff. Operation Midnight Caller. You know that one?
- [160:24]
Joe Rogan
Which one's that?
- [160:25]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's. It happened in San Francisco where they had agents hiring prostitutes and they. Oh.
- [160:30]
Joe Rogan
Midnight Climax.
- [160:31]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Midnight Climax. Behind. Behind the two way glass Nuts. Nuts.
- [160:35]
Joe Rogan
Bunch of weirdos.
- [160:36]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Tax dollars at work.
- [160:38]
Joe Rogan
And it's because they had no, no one was no oversight. You know, you have ultimate power. It's all totally deniable.
- [160:46]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And it was. I think it was Nixon who banned it in 72. It might have even been 69 before he came in. They kept doing it anyway. Same with bioweapons. They were ordered by executive order to get rid of their bioweapons and it was found out years later. They were just stockpiling them. They still had them and you know. They still do.
- [161:06]
Joe Rogan
Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah. Do you hesitant. Do you hesitate sometimes when you're doing these government cover up ones?
- [161:15]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes, yes. Yeah. You know, I don't want to say I'm a.
- [161:19]
Joe Rogan
Because they're dangerous.
- [161:20]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
They are.
- [161:20]
Joe Rogan
Bigfoot's not dangerous.
- [161:22]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No, Bigfoot's not gonna hurt me.
- [161:23]
Joe Rogan
Bigfoot's a fun one.
- [161:24]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's fun.
- [161:25]
Joe Rogan
UFOs are fun ones.
- [161:26]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Different dimensions. You know, we fun stuff. Yeah. It's hard for me because I consider myself a patriot. Very, very like pro military, pro law enforcement, but also anti war and you know, pro criminal justice reform. Like I'm a very.
- [161:42]
Joe Rogan
Me too.
- [161:43]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Politically confused.
- [161:44]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, me too.
- [161:45]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, I just like fairness and transparency, that sort of thing.
- [161:49]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. You like to think that our government's good.
- [161:50]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
I do like to think that. And this journey has shown me that it's mostly not. You know, it's really mostly not. But it's. It's a government made of men and men are flawed and selfish and men will hurt each other.
- [162:02]
Joe Rogan
And there's also justifications that be made can be made rather for doing terrible things because there's terrible people out there and you have to.
- [162:08]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
To stay ahead always.
- [162:09]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Don't become a monster when you're fighting monsters.
- [162:12]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's exactly right. And these, this collateral damage is just part of the. It's just part of it.
- [162:17]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [162:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know. So we give them a settlement to stay quiet. But this is for national security.
- [162:22]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [162:23]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Greater good.
- [162:23]
Joe Rogan
What other ones have freaked you out?
- [162:26]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And it's. It's hard to. It's hard to say off the top of my head. MK Ultra is a tough one. You know, I have, I have covered Northwoods and, and some of those. Operation Gladio was a crazy one. That was where the CIA was killing civilians after World War II. Allen Dulles. I'm going to do an episode on Allen Dulles, the Dulles brothers, their connection to the Nazis and all of that. That's going to be a dangerous one.
- [162:53]
Joe Rogan
What were they doing? They were killing people. For what reason?
- [162:56]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
So we had to fight communism. Communism. Communism. So they trained a secret army, a civilian army in Italy, to bomb civilians and then blame it on the communists. The communists at that time were the most popular party in Italy post war, because they had just went through fascism with Mussolini. So it always swings too far the other way. So we swing way the other way. Communism, very popular. Can't have that. So civilians were killed in bombings by the CIA trained guerrilla army, and they were trained by a Nazi general who was tight with Alan Dulles. And this was planned during the war while American GIs were being killed fighting the Nazis. They were already planning this next phase, but civilians died in massacres and they blamed it on communists. And it was denied and denied and eventually it came out. It was called Operation Gladio. Gladio is a. Gladius is the sword of the. Of the Roman soldiers.
- [163:59]
Joe Rogan
How did they kill the people?
- [164:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Bomb. Car bomb. Car bomb was a big one. I think it was in Milan, but there was a few.
- [164:05]
Joe Rogan
They were just blaming the communists to stop communism because it was.
- [164:08]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It was a huge. Italy was a lot of turmoil. I think it was called like the. The Years of Lead, or like the Decades of Lead, something like that, because people were just getting killed all the time. I don't know how many constitutions Italy's had since World War II, but it's probably over two dozen at this point. You know, it's a chaotic place.
- [164:26]
Joe Rogan
Wow, that's my people.
- [164:28]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It's my people, too.
- [164:29]
Joe Rogan
We're goofy. What about the Richard structure?
- [164:37]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, people ask me about that. The eye of the Sahara. I usually say, you know what? Go to Corsetti, go to Brighton sight, go to Randall Carlson.
- [164:46]
Joe Rogan
Corsetti's the most bright. Randall Carlson doesn't believe the. That was Atlantis, but Corsetti makes a very compelling case. Mountains to the north, river to the.
- [164:54]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
South, the circular concentric rings.
- [164:57]
Joe Rogan
The concentric rings, they're the correct size.
- [164:59]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yep.
- [164:59]
Joe Rogan
The fact that there's still salt on the ground there, I want to believe it. Yeah. And then there's, like. When you pull back and you get the satellite image of the surface and it looks like it was just completely deluged.
- [165:11]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It does, yeah. Well, we know for a fact it was deluged. It doesn't line up with Atlantis. I mean. I mean, Carlson has shown us how the surface of Africa was just altered by the flood. So it all lines up. But there's all these leaps that we have to make. I enjoy making them, but, you know, on my show, I try to let people know, look, I connected some dots here. You know, I had to fill in some gaps with a little bit of creative license. But if you're interested, go pursue it. Go learn more. I want that to be Atlantis.
- [165:48]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it seems like Atlantis was a real place because, you know, once they found out that Troy was a real place, Troy was also dismissed, right?
- [165:56]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes, it was.
- [165:56]
Joe Rogan
They found out no Troy actually existed. It doesn't seem like any of those stories were bullshit. It seems like they were historical accounts. And the thing about Plato's writings about Atlantis, he talks about it having existed 900 years prior, which lines up perfectly with the younger Dryas.
- [166:15]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. And he learned it from an Egyptian priest who learned it from someone else. So the story goes back beyond Plato, if you believe Plato, which you can believe Plato.
- [166:25]
Joe Rogan
Well, he was right about a lot of things. And it's just. It's so fascinating. We think of, like, that kind of historical record keeping that you're getting these depictions of what kind of a civilization existed thousands and thousands of years ago.
- [166:41]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. So what, you know, with Homer's Iliad, what did they think he was writing about? A fictional place? I mean, that was. That was this.
- [166:48]
Joe Rogan
I said. I think I said 900 years. I meant 9,000.
- [166:51]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
9,000 years.
- [166:52]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Which is like, first of all, like, how do you get 9,000 years of history 2,000 years ago? Like, what are you even getting?
- [167:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yeah.
- [167:01]
Joe Rogan
How are these stories? How are they documented? Like, how do they pass them? How do they pass them on? Like, who are the original people? What's the actual version story? Which one is more accurate? Epic of Gilgamesh, Noah's Ark. Which, like, something seems to exist in almost every ancient civilization.
- [167:21]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
They all have a flood myth.
- [167:23]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [167:23]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And, you know, Gilgamesh and Noah's Ark sounds. They're very similar stories. And there are other cultures that have a Noah's ark story.
- [167:33]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, yeah, that's. That's my favorite currently. I've seen, like, a ton of videos, and I think Jimmy Corsetti does the best job about the Reichardt structure. But he's all in on it.
- [167:45]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes.
- [167:45]
Joe Rogan
And I think, look, it doesn't look natural.
- [167:48]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No, it doesn't.
- [167:48]
Joe Rogan
It doesn't. It looks like exact. And it's like, what a coincidence that it matches the dimensions of Atlantis as.
- [167:57]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Described and it's in the right place. So, you know, when people argue for Bimini being the Atlantis, it's like they didn't know what any of that was, but they knew what North Africa was.
- [168:06]
Joe Rogan
Right. And also, it's so close to Egypt. It's so close to what we already Know was a super advanced civilization that existed.
- [168:15]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
There's been no excavations of that.
- [168:17]
Joe Rogan
I don't believe so. Of the Rayshard structure. Yeah, I'm reading all about it. What have they done?
- [168:23]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Like deep 1974 was discovered. They found artifacts. Looking right now. So I was about to show you. This isn't a great example, but there's other this isn't it another eye that looks similar to it in the same area.
- [168:38]
Joe Rogan
Interesting.
- [168:39]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
And then the comments say that there's even two or three of these.
- [168:42]
Joe Rogan
Whoa.
- [168:43]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
And I was reading Stephen Novella's breakdown of Jimmy's video. He says he's leaving out some known facts. Like there was a canal that connected each of those circles. That isn't apparent in the Richot structure, but those are the things I was just getting at right now.
- [169:00]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
This looks like canals.
- [169:02]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
Well, that's a different. This isn't the reshot structure.
- [169:04]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right, right.
- [169:05]
Joe Rogan
Show the research structure.
- [169:06]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And the research structure is strange because the coloration is different than the rest of the.
- [169:10]
Joe Rogan
That was it. Also the depictions of the colors of the rocks is the same. Red and black. Yeah. Like that is fucking crazy. That's crazy.
- [169:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It is.
- [169:19]
Jamie (likely Jamie Vernon)
The one guy who found artifacts said there was. There was some stuff like out here on the outer circles, but not very many inside.
- [169:26]
Joe Rogan
Well, the question is like how big was the catastrophe and how much would be left and what would you actually see? You know, like how much was the structure altered by whatever the fuck happened.
- [169:38]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. So when we talk about ancient advanced civilizations, we're not talking about more advanced than us, we just mean advanced.
- [169:46]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [169:46]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
So people will say, well, where's their plastic? Where's their.
- [169:50]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, but it has. It doesn't have to be the same kind of advance.
- [169:53]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It doesn't.
- [169:54]
Joe Rogan
Combustion engines, all the different things that we've done. Electronics. Like we're just assuming that technology always goes in the exact same path. But it's whatever the fuck they were doing. We know. Whatever we know they were doing in Egypt was extraordinary with. In terms of. Of like their ability to core the drills. When they have these cores that they like high speed drills that seem to be, if not diamond tipped, something of a similar vein that allowed them to dig into that granite like that. Like.
- [170:22]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. How do they generate 2000rpms or whatever? How could they do that?
- [170:26]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's all freaky, man. Like the history. I mean, Graham has the best depiction. He said we are a species with amnesia.
- [170:35]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That's the perfect way to say, you know, it's a shame that he's marginalized, but I like that Netflix is stuck by him. And yeah, keep pumping those out.
- [170:42]
Joe Rogan
Well, the facts are the facts. You know, just the structures that he's uncovering. When you're looking at Gun and Padang, when you're looking at all these different places, when you look at, you know, just Machu Picchu, all these different places, like, what the fuck was going on? Like, why is this stuff so complex? Why is it so fascinating?
- [171:01]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And why aren't we allowed to ask? Why aren't we allowed to investigate it? Remember when Ancient Apocalypse Season 1 came out? There was a British newspaper, said, graham Hancock is the most dangerous man in the world.
- [171:16]
Joe Rogan
As it just dumbasses. Well, they always want to connect it to white supremacy, which is so crazy because Graham Hancock is the furthest from a white supremacist. You know, he's married to a woman of color. He's like. He's like the sweetest, nicest guy. He's a vegan.
- [171:31]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Of course, he never said they were white folks.
- [171:34]
Joe Rogan
No, no one says that.
- [171:36]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And who cares? I just want to know who they were.
- [171:38]
Joe Rogan
Well, they couldn't be white folks because white folks don't live there.
- [171:41]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
No.
- [171:41]
Joe Rogan
Like, if they're Egyptians, they're Africans.
- [171:43]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right.
- [171:44]
Joe Rogan
The Africans were the most sophisticated civilization that we have ever seen that existed at that point in time. We don't know if they're as sophisticated as we are, but we know they did some stuff back then that we're not capable of today.
- [171:57]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Yes.
- [171:58]
Joe Rogan
And that's real.
- [171:59]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It is.
- [171:59]
Joe Rogan
And we don't know how, we don't know what technology they had. But here's the thing. If it's not from 2500 BC, if it's really from 30,000 BC, what do you think would be left? Like, only maybe the stone.
- [172:12]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
That would be it.
- [172:14]
Joe Rogan
That's part of the problem. I mean, steel, any kind of. Gone.
- [172:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
It would only take a hundred years for Manhattan to be covered by vegetation. A thousand years, the skyscrapers would crumble. 10,000 years, it'd all be washed away.
- [172:29]
Joe Rogan
100,000 years, you're not gonna see jack shit.
- [172:31]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Nothing?
- [172:31]
Joe Rogan
Nothing. Yeah, who is that British archaeologist that we brought up the other day, Jamie, with the. Where he has this really good point that human beings have been in essentially the same form for the last 300,000 years. Like, it's not outside the realm of possibility that we have achieved very high levels of sophistication multiple times and have been knocked back down to the Stone Age again.
- [172:54]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Sure.
- [172:55]
Joe Rogan
By cataclysmic events.
- [172:56]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right. And that makes a lot of sense to me that it's just part of a cycle.
- [173:00]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [173:01]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
You know, the Doomsday Clock is. It's kind of a real thing, is that you just get to a level of technology where you just are too dangerous for your own good. We're not sophisticated enough for nuclear weapons. We're not smart enough to have those.
- [173:13]
Joe Rogan
No. Well, that's. The hope is that that's what the aliens are here for. To go, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.
- [173:18]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Right, because they have. Yeah, but then why did they allow just the United states to detonate 60 something bombs?
- [173:26]
Joe Rogan
Well, here's the thing. Two of them that caused mass death, right? Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But that's also when the UFO started showing up in mass. You know, and, you know, I have this comedy club called the Comedy Mothership. And the rooms are named Fat man and Little Boy.
- [173:44]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Okay.
- [173:45]
Joe Rogan
And the reason why is because in UFO folklore, after those bombs were dropped, that's when the mothership started showing up, Right? Yeah.
- [173:52]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
And in some tests, you can see stuff in the sky. In the films, I think you can see something at Castle Bravo. Could be wrong, but there are some tests where you can see stuff in the sky. Like what? What was that for? A few frames, like they were keeping an eye on. I hope they are.
- [174:07]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, that would be nice. Please don't be nice. Well, listen, aj, I love your show. You provided me with hours and hours of entertainment. It's an awesome program. You do a really good job. It's really well done. I don't know who's doing it with you and how you promote, how you produce it, but you. You guys kill it.
- [174:25]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Thanks, man. Great team.
- [174:26]
Joe Rogan
It's a great show. The Y Files. It's available on YouTube, 4.373 million subscribers. So I'm not alone. And you guys have only been around for how many years now?
- [174:37]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
20. 20.
- [174:38]
Joe Rogan
That's amazing. Five years and you already have almost 5 million subscribers.
- [174:42]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
CIA is just backing me up.
- [174:44]
Joe Rogan
It's a great fucking show. That's what it is. So I'm glad we finally did this.
- [174:48]
AJ (likely AJ Jacobs or AJ McKee)
Appreciate it.
- [174:48]
Joe Rogan
Thank you very much, man. And if you ever got anything crazy you want to break it, here, we're ready for you. Got an episode coming out you want everybody to know about. Come on back. I think we probably do this 100 times. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you. All right, bye, everybody.