#2355 - Mike Baker

Summary

The Joe Rogan Experience - Episode #2355 with Mike Baker

Release Date: July 25, 2025

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1. Introduction and Pop Culture Commentary

00:12 - 02:18

Joe Rogan welcomes Mike Baker to the show amidst discussions about the chaotic state of current events. They delve into recent South Park episodes that satirize political figures, notably Donald Trump and Satan. Mike highlights the show's boldness in pushing boundaries:

Mike Baker [00:25]: "They did a Donald Trump one with Satan. It's fucking hilarious."

Joe shares his appreciation for South Park, mentioning how he raised his three sons watching it, much to his wife's disapproval.

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2. Epstein Case and Conspiracy Theories

02:18 - 06:00

The conversation shifts to the controversial death of Jeffrey Epstein, with Mike expressing skepticism about official narratives surrounding Epstein's suicide. They discuss inconsistencies, such as the autopsy report revealing three broken neck bones, which defies typical suicide mechanics:

Mike Baker [03:05]: "The Michael Baden stuff, the autopsy stuff where it showed that he had three broken bones in his neck, which never happens."

They critique the Department of Justice's handling of the case, pointing out the lack of transparency and the seemingly contradictory statements from officials like Pam Bondi and Cash Patel.

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3. Media Bias and Public Distrust

06:00 - 12:00

Mike and Joe discuss the perceived bias in mainstream media outlets like NPR and The New York Times. Mike criticizes the lack of impartiality, citing a tweet from The Atlantic that underscores the need for dedicated journalists who seek truth rather than propagate agendas:

Mike Baker [06:00]: "America needs a dedicated and decently funded group of people whose job it is not to just ask questions, but to find answers."

They express frustration over media's role in shaping public perception, questioning the defunding of impartial news sources and highlighting the challenges in maintaining trust.

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4. Political Corruption and Insider Trading

12:00 - 21:00

The discussion turns to financial misconduct among politicians, referencing Senator Chuck Schumer, AOC, and Mitch McConnell. They debate the legality and ethics of insider trading, lamenting the lack of accountability:

Joe Rogan [80:35]: "And it's done very well. And I'm always fascinated because I'm thinking, well, of course it does well, because you're sitting up there on goddamn Capitol Hill, you hear in these hearings, you hear about developments."

Mike underscores the hypocrisy in how certain politicians exploit their positions for personal gain without facing repercussions, advocating for stricter regulations and transparency.

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5. AI and the Future of Media

21:00 - 32:00

Mike introduces the topic of artificial intelligence in media production, showcasing AI-generated content that rivals human creativity. They discuss the implications of AI in creating deepfakes, scripted TV shows, and music, raising concerns about authenticity and the erosion of trust:

Joe Rogan [100:01]: "It's just like, how the hell do I know what's real anymore?"

The duo highlights the challenges in distinguishing between genuine and AI-created content, emphasizing the need for advanced detection methods to combat misinformation.

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6. US Immigration Policy and Border Security

32:00 - 55:00

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on US immigration policies, critiquing the open-border stance and its consequences. They discuss the strategic motives behind immigration, such as altering congressional seat distributions and economic implications:

Mike Baker [66:02]: "You need to have like some sort of a Mike Ben style recall in your head where you can keep track of everything..."

They argue that lax immigration controls serve particular political agendas, leading to societal and economic upheaval, while calling for more secure and regulated immigration processes.

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7. International Relations and Military Interventions

55:00 - 128:00

Joe and Mike delve into US foreign policy, particularly military interventions in the Middle East. They analyze the recent actions against Iran's nuclear facilities, discussing the effectiveness and long-term impact of such strikes:

Joe Rogan [128:15]: "But at a certain point, you never know when things are heading south. Right."

They debate the ethical and strategic aspects of regime change, the ripple effects on global stability, and the continuous cycle of conflict exacerbated by national interests and intelligence shortcomings.

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8. Personal Anecdotes and Reflections

128:00 - End

Towards the end, Joe shares personal stories, including a near-drowning experience and reflections on parenting and risk management. They touch upon the unpredictability of life and the importance of balancing safety with freedom:

Joe Rogan [148:51]: "Our youngest boy again. Yeah. Happy birthday, Mugsy."

The conversation concludes with light-hearted banter about AI-generated content, celebrity deaths, and upcoming events, maintaining a balance between serious discourse and personal interaction.

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Notable Quotes:

• Mike Baker [03:05]: "The Epstein thing is so crazy because when Cash Patel was on here and he was like, there's no, there's nothing."

• Joe Rogan [84:34]: "Well, it's the idea that everybody, if we just would all get along, right, it's all going to work out fine."

• Mike Baker [66:02]: "You need to have like some sort of a Mike Ben style recall in your head where you can keep track of everything..."

• Joe Rogan [100:20]: "Oh, my God. It looks like Saudi."

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Conclusion

In this episode, Joe Rogan and Mike Baker navigate a labyrinth of contemporary issues, blending political critique, conspiracy theories, technological advancements, and personal anecdotes. Their candid conversation underscores a prevalent skepticism towards governmental institutions, media bias, and the rapid evolution of technology impacting societal trust. While addressing serious topics like the Epstein case and US foreign policy, they also reflect on personal experiences, illustrating the interconnectedness of global events and individual lives.

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Note: This summary omits advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content segments to focus solely on the substantive discussions between Joe Rogan and Mike Baker.

Transcript

[Joe Rogan]

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[Mike Baker]

Yep. Mike Baker, what a good time to talk to you. What a good time to have you in.

[Joe Rogan]

What a fine time.

[Mike Baker]

There's so much chaos. There's so much madness.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God.

[Mike Baker]

Did you see the south park episode?

[Joe Rogan]

Which. Which. Which one?

[Mike Baker]

They did a Donald Trump one with Satan.

[Joe Rogan]

No, no.

[Mike Baker]

It's fucking hilarious.

[Joe Rogan]

I gotta. I love the show. Is fantastic. I raised my three boys on that show, much to my wife's horror. But it's a great show. But I haven't seen that episode.

[Mike Baker]

It. When you think, like, Bridget Fedesee had a funny quote. Like, when you think that they have reached the bottom of the highest level of not giving a fuck, they reach unseen levels. Is it.

[Joe Rogan]

The whole.

[Mike Baker]

The Epstein thing is so crazy. Like, and him saying, like, what do you care? Why does everybody care about Epstein?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that's it. Yeah, but it is. Look, I mean, although, again, going back to South Park. Yeah. Once they did the Woodland creatures episode all those years ago, you thought, okay, that's got to be the worst they can get.

[Mike Baker]

Which one was the woodland Creatures episode?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God. You got to look it up. It's fantastic. I'm not gonna do it justice if I try to explain what it's about.

[Mike Baker]

Well, remember when they did the gay Teacher where you had a whore off with Paris Hilton? They stuffed her up his. This was the other one. Oh, that's right. Oh, I forgot about that one. Yeah. That was 17 years ago. They don't give a. Dude. They haven't given a. Since the beginning. And it's the greatest show of all time.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Honestly, if you said what would be the best job that you could have imagined it would be being one of those two guys.

[Mike Baker]

They're killing it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

And the thing is, like, it's so beautiful because they have cartoons and. And you could do things with cartoons you could never do with real people. You can kill them. They can fuck each other. They could stick things up their ass. Like, anything can happen. Anything can happen because. And it's also the not realistic cartoon. So it's like you're somehow or another detached from it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. No, they, they, they. And if they. They did a documentary one time. I don't know if you saw that.

[Mike Baker]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Where they. They tracked the six days it takes them to make the show. Okay.

[Mike Baker]

This trumpet bill would say, satan.

[Joe Rogan]

Satan's back.

[Mike Baker]

Satan's upset at Trump. It's very funny.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you remember The Satan and Diddy episode. Although that was fantastic.

[Mike Baker]

I didn't see that one.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, the Satan Diddy episode. And then they had the. The mass murderers. And. No, this was. This was a few years back too. It was a Diddy party. And he wanted to. It's a long story. He wanted a Lamborghini cake, but, you know, it was like the devil wanted it and they said, no, Diddy did it already. And it's. It's fantastic.

[Mike Baker]

Remember when they had the movie with Saddam Hussein and Saddam Hussein was in a gay relationship with Satan?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, God. You'd spend. The people are like, oh, they going to talk about this the whole time.

[Mike Baker]

But yeah, the Epstein stuff is so crazy because when Cash Patel was on here and he was like, there's no, there's nothing. And I was like, what are you talking.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

I didn't even know what to say. My thought was. And people like, why didn't you push back more? My thought was like, I'm just going to put this out there and let the Internet do its work because there's nothing I can. The guy's saying, there's no tapes, there's no video. That doesn't make any sense. Everyone knows it doesn't make any sense. And then he didn't know about the Mike. The Michael Baden stuff, the autopsy stuff where it showed that he had three broken bones in his neck, which never happens.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

When you hang yourself, even when you like leap from somewhere with a rope around your neck and it snaps your neck, you never have three broken prison cell.

[Joe Rogan]

He's not launching himself off the first floor balcony.

[Mike Baker]

The whole thing was nuts. And then they really. He's like, well, we have a film. We're going to release that film. And the film has a fucking minute missing from it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Like, do you think we're babies? Like, what is this?

[Joe Rogan]

Also, you got. You have people, including Dan Bongino, Right. Making bank for a couple of years, talking about how awful it is and we got to get this shit. And this is this huge conspiracy and. And then you release a two day, you know, a two page memo that says, yeah, there's nothing to see here.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah. Because you're walking by your bedroom window and you see a little laser.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Laser moving across your chest.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. But it's so. It's really is. It's so. Look, you know me. I'm not a. I'm not a conspiracy guy.

[Mike Baker]

Oh, you are today.

[Joe Rogan]

But I am today. Today I'm fully on board with this shit.

[Mike Baker]

Everybody's in today.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. No, but they're actually doing right as we speak. And I find this fascinating is that the Assistant Attorney General, Todd Blanche, is down in Florida for an interview with Ghislaine Maxwell. She's serving 20 years in a Florida prison for sex trafficking. Right.

[Mike Baker]

To who, though?

[Joe Rogan]

What's that?

[Mike Baker]

To whom?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he's down there to interview, but I'm saying she's.

[Mike Baker]

She sex trafficked.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, she was a co conspirator of Epstein's.

[Mike Baker]

Right, but don't you have to have a person who you're Sex trafficking?

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly. And they talked about the victims somewhat during her trial. It was very. I mean, it was a very difficult trial in the sense of, you know, they're trying to protect certain victims and others were coming forward. But, you know, my surprise was nobody from DOJ has ever. According to her legal team, nobody has ever interviewed her from doj. Right. Department of Justice. So this is the first time the Department Justice. You're telling me. And meanwhile, up on Capitol Hill, you've got Democrats like Adam Schiff and others going, we have got to release these fucking files. They had four years under the previous administration, right? Look, everybody's fucked in this situation, but they had all that time to do whatever they wanted to do. Nobody up until this point, apparently, has talked to it. Now, you know, some folks on the legal side are saying, well, look, if she had anything interesting to say, she would have said it during the course of her trial. Right, to save herself or to cut a deal.

[Mike Baker]

No, but now I don't think so.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't. Yeah, kill her.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, well, the smartest thing for her to do is to keep her mouth shut, which is what she did.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Mike Baker]

They put her in a cushy prison where she could do yoga.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yoga in prison. That doesn't sound good.

[Mike Baker]

Here's one of my favorite ones. I'm gonna. I'm gonna send you this, Jamie, because this. Somebody tweeted this, and it's just so perfect. And it's. It just shows you how crazy this. This whole thing has been, like, from the very beginning. This is. Someone tweeted this from the Atlantic, and this is what. What's funny about this? Check this out, James. So it's these people. It's like they all knew her. They all knew him. So many people knew him and knew her, and they're all pretending that they didn't, that no one knew. Check this out. This is the Atlantic. Says, scroll. Go up bigger so we can see it. So you can see the quote below it. Below It. No, go back. There we go. I can't read it. There it goes. This is what the Atlantic posts, if the Epstein scandal teaches us anything, is that America needs a dedicated and decently funded group of people whose job it is not to just ask questions, but to find answers. And then this guy, Sean Davis, posts, the woman on the right is Ghislaine Maxwell. She trafficked children for Jeffrey Epstein. The woman on the left owns your magazine. This is so fucking wild. Just that alone is so wild that they would have the balls to post that. We need dedicated journalists, not just people asking questions, which is like, for sure, an attack on podcasts. Like, listen, you guys didn't do shit. Yeah, you didn't do shit. So just asking. Just the fact that we're just asking questions along with that, or is this a knock on the defunding of pbs, which is essentially a propaganda network for the Democratic Party.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Which is now being apparently. We'll see if that happens. But apparently being defunded. But. But, yeah, look, everybody's. Everybody's worried now, right? At first it was like, okay, again, I go back a handful of years, nobody was pushing for this, right? Because you got people from all sides, probably on whatever that list looks like, whatever that Epstein file looks like, whoever was involved, you got people from all sides of the spectrum here going on. And so everybody's worried. So it looked like, all right, there's kind of this bizarre bipartisan moment where we're not gonna push for this. Really. We're not gonna make a big effort here. We're not. Sen. Anybody from doj. The Dems aren't, during the Biden administration, calling for the release of the files. Now all of a sudden, they smell, you know, blood in the water and a particular, you know, political motivation here. So let's get these files out. And, you know, nobody's gonna look good from this. But again, I would caution some. You know, just because a name might be in a file, no matter whose it is. Right. Doesn't necessarily mean there's nefarious activity. It could be like any police file, right. That says, okay, the individual stopped at this particular location and this person was there, doesn't mean they're connected to something awful. Weren't fucking underage girls. Maybe they were if they're in the file. Right. But I'm just saying there's a lot of people probably in that file that are going to be named if it ever comes out, who may or may not have been engaged in illegal activity, but just release the goddamn things.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah. There's probably a lot of people who just went there. Did I send you that thing where this guy was breaking? Did I say NPR or PBS earlier? I meant npr. Did I send you that thing, that link where this guy's breaking down all the different tweets that the lady who is the CEO of NPR made? I don't think so. Because she's getting questioned on whether or not she's biased. And then this guy, like, goes over all the different tweets. God damn it. I know I saved it, but I should. I should have been prepared. I know I have it in here because it's so funny. It's so funny listening to her. See if you can find. You might be able to find it. I just think I just found it. But of course you found it. Beautiful. Because it's so adorable, this pretending that this was an unbiased news source.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Mike Baker]

Directly from her own account. Well, this is one of them, but let's. But this one guy broke it down.

[Joe Rogan]

America's beverage companies are investing in America. We're American companies making American products with American workers in America's hometowns. We're local bottlers and manufacturers operating in all 50 states, employing more than 275,000Americans in good paying jobs, delivering for the nation because we believe in the promise.

[Mike Baker]

Of America and the people who make it great.

[Joe Rogan]

Learn [e-mail] paid for by the American Beverage Association.

[Mike Baker]

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[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but again, anybody who at this stage of the game thinks that the media, you know, doesn't have an agenda, that they're not complicit in one way or another with whatever, maybe. Come on.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, it's a joke. It's a joke. And they're all funded. And I mean, the fact that the government was funding NPR is crazy like this. You, you can't have a completely biased, one sided media organization that's funded by the government and taxpayers. That's crazy. And they went over all the amount of people that were on NPR that were Democrats and it's 100%. Yeah, it's like out of 87 people, it's 100%.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at the New York Times.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, so that none of that should be a surprise to anybody who.

[Mike Baker]

But the New York Times, at least a privately funded company.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Mike Baker]

I mean, it's like NPR relied on tax money and there's this giant outrage that the government's going to defund it.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, a lot. And what they're trying to do is they're trying to couch it as saying, look, you're taking away, you know, the only source of news for, you know, rural locations, for example, like you got someplace up in North Dakota that, you know, has no other access and so they rely on NPR for their news. I don't know a lot of people up in North Dakota that say, I wonder what NPR is saying about this.

[Mike Baker]

Well, not just that, but it's like at the end of the day, the reality is the Internet exists and we don't need, you don't need to fund, publicly fund something that's clearly biased. When the Internet exists, you can get whatever you want. If you want to just absorb and consume only left wing media, there's so much available, you can go find it. But our tax dollars should not be going to that.

[Joe Rogan]

No, no. And to be fair, if anybody wants to know what the hell's going on in the news, they can just listen to the President's daily Brief podcast. Frankly, your podcast, I'm. Yeah. That's some bad boy. I just stuck that in there.

[Mike Baker]

I can't find this thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Did you find it?

[Joe Rogan]

As far as you.

[Mike Baker]

Let's hear it.

[Joe Rogan]

Show me. Sorry. It concerns you. That's fantastic. As far as the accusations that were biased, I would stand up and say, please show me a story that concerns you, because we want to know and we want to bring that conversation back to our newsroom.

[Mike Baker]

And then they have all these. And then all these fat phobia, and it's racist past and present. Some white people may choose thumbs up because it feels new, neutral. But some academics argue that opting out. What does that mean? Thumbs up signals lacks awareness about white privilege. Akin to society associating whiteness with being raceless. What? God, what does that mean?

[Joe Rogan]

How about how racism became a marketing tool for country music?

[Mike Baker]

Oh, yeah, that's a good one. God, this right wing conspiracy theory about eating bugs is about as racist as you think. No, that's like, literally, this is solved. And there's. Here's another great quote that she said. If you look on the right side, Jamie, where it says the truth is a distraction from getting things done. That is such a fucking Orwellian thing to say. Click on that just so you can hear her say this, because it's. It's so bananas that someone would say this out loud and not think it's.

[Joe Rogan]

One of the most significant differences critical for moving from polarization to productivity is that the Wikipedians who write these articles aren't actually focused on finding the truth. Oh, no, they're working for something that's a little bit more attainable, which is the best of what we can know right now. And after seven years there, I actually believe that they're on to something that for our most tricky disagreements, seeking the truth and seeking to convince others of the truth isn't necessarily the best place to start. In fact, I think our reverence for the truth might become. Might have become what? A bit of a distraction that is preventing us from finding consensus and getting important things done.

[Mike Baker]

What?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh my God, that's fantastic.

[Mike Baker]

I wild is that you want government. That is such a wild thing to say.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, going for the truth as a journalist now.

[Mike Baker]

No, it's not important.

[Joe Rogan]

No, it's not important.

[Mike Baker]

The truth is a distraction.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what I hate? I hate that. And you see that all the time. And I don't know whether it's a TED Talk or not, but I. As soon as I see that type of forum where they're, they're earnestly standing there and they've got their little mouthpiece there around there, and they're talking and they're. They're looking out into the distance and you think, climb out of your own fucking ass. Right? It's just awful.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, I don't. I Don't like any of those things. Yeah, I don't like that little Bobby Brown microphone either. Unless you're on stage. Bobby Brown, yeah, I remember used to sing with that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, sorry, that's step on your line, I'll join in for the chorus.

[Mike Baker]

I don't like those little microphones. Hold the microphone like a real fucking human. That's a madness. That video clip is madness. That's a piece of madness. That's a crazy thing to say. I will say the truth gets in the way.

[Joe Rogan]

I will say that the Epstein, the Epstein situation is going to be so disappointing to so many people now because I have this theory that nothing ever gets done in Washington D.C. right? Investigations go to die there. Nothing ever happens. There's never any real consequences of any nature. And we got all sorts of things happening right now, Right? So the Epstein case is just one of them. But right now you've got the Dems focused on Epstein because you know, again, they see this is a good opportunity here to go after Trump regardless of who else is in the files. Right. And the Dems, I think, were worried for quite some time and didn't pursue it because you know, years back they were thinking, okay, Clinton's gonna be embarrassed, we don't want that. So again, my point would be just release everything. I don't understand how if you just look at the way that they handle this logistically, whoever thought. Because the mob wants to eat, right? And they've been throwing red meat to the mob about Epstein files now for years.

[Mike Baker]

It's part of how they got elected, Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And so whoever in their communications group or in their strategic thinking arena in the administration thought that we can get away with just saying there's nothing to see here, they should be fired. Right. Because there's no way you can satisfy this mob. And now the mob is oddly bipartisan cuz it's got the Demps and it's got part of the base of Trump in there.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And they're all screaming to have this goddamn it, just released this shit. Otherwise this is gonna be around like Martin Luther King and John F. Kennedy and well, that's what's crazy.

[Mike Baker]

They did release more Martin Luther King document documents, which is really crazy. Like why are you holding secrets about the murder of one of the most beloved historical figures of all time from 1968?

[Joe Rogan]

Part of that's a family. Yeah, part of that's a family request. The family has asked, you know, in the past on a number of occasions. They really don't want some of this because some of it, look, some of it's salacious about, you know, Martin Luther, which doesn't take away from everything that he did. Right. As a leader of a cause and a movement, but some of it is, you know, extramarital affairs. So there's been some push to be concerned about that. But yeah. Now do the Epstein files.

[Mike Baker]

Oh, they'll do it in the same amount of time, 56 years from now, just like they did with him. It's 56 fucking years later they released this stuff.

[Joe Rogan]

And we're still not any closer to, I mean, again, I don't want to disappear down that rabbit hole, but we're still any closer with Martin Luther King. Again, not a conspiracy. Got. Except today, apparently, but there's shit there.

[Mike Baker]

Well, you said, you've said multiple times that if there's one that you think looks really bad, it's that one.

[Joe Rogan]

It's that one. But I, going back to, I know I'm bouncing around here, but going back to the Epstein thing, I don't understand how they handled this so poorly. Right. For Bam Bondi to come out and talk about the files and. Oh my God. And then like within a blink of an eye, they come out with this bullshit Sunday night memo saying there's nothing to see. I. How could.

[Mike Baker]

There's just a lack of coordination.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I do.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it's a messaging problem is always kind of a key element of the Trump administration, whether it's this one or not. And now look, that's not a, you know, I'm not knocking a lot of the policies. I like a lot of the policies that come out of this administration, this one in the previous, the first administration. But I'm just saying a hallmark of a Trump administration is the ability to have a self inflicted wound, you know, shoot yourself in the foot because of messaging, usually.

[Mike Baker]

Right, right.

[Joe Rogan]

So I think they've, they've done it again. And I don't see how they, I don't see how they walk this back. They're trying to, I think with this interview with Ghislaine Maxwell to say, look, we're trying, we're, we're talking to her.

[Mike Baker]

You know, but how does Pam Bondi say we have thousands of hours of footage and then Cash Patel says we don't have anything that you're looking for.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

And then Tim Dillon said he has lunch with JD Vance and JD Vance says that 10,000 hours is commercial pornography.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Yeah. You think this freak show of Epstein wasn't like, it didn't have hidden cameras or wasn't taped, and 100.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, well, that was the thing about that house. That house they had in New York City, which is, by the way, for sale and.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, really?

[Mike Baker]

Yeah. Nobody wants to buy it. Like you want to buy Epstein's house.

[Joe Rogan]

Do the cameras convey?

[Mike Baker]

Well, this is the thing. I mean, you got to gut the walls. How are you going to know what the. Is in there?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Imagine you're walking around your house naked, and you think that the CIA is. Or you're your organization, whoever.

[Joe Rogan]

To be fair, they just got a lot of hours of videotape of me walking around naked.

[Mike Baker]

I'm sure. Yeah, but Mossad, whoever it is that was involved in this intelligence gathering. I mean, I'm just guessing. I have no idea. But there's pinhole cameras all over that house.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe they took them down from that perception. Right. Because again, if anything else, you're just being naive if you think, no, there's nothing.

[Mike Baker]

Again, you gotta take it down to the bare beams.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

You gotta strip the wallboard off. You gotta Fucking every baseboard. You gotta pull everything.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like. It's like we had.

[Mike Baker]

Knows what's in that house.

[Joe Rogan]

We had a. We had a situation in Moscow one time where we were building. It was the new embassy, the US Embassy in Moscow. Right. And for some reason, you know, part of the deal was to allow Russian contractors to work on the construction of this.

[Mike Baker]

What the fuck?

[Joe Rogan]

You know, so. But that's a. It's a government thing, you know, and so you can imagine there's like. To your point, there's not a lot of coordination. So, you know, the Russian contractors thinking, oh, this is great. We're helping to construct the U.S. embassy. And they know there's going to be sensitive areas within there, the station, you know, for the. For the agency and other areas. Anyway, at a certain point, they're just about finished with construction. And just by. Not by happenstance, I mean, there were efforts to try to examine what the Russians were doing. Right. So the security side of things, they were concerned about the fact that the Russians were working on it. You know, you had the State Department and others that were like, no, it's a good idea. You know, it helps with diplomacy. So the security guys were doing things. They were x raying, you know, parts of materials that were coming in for the construction. And apparently at one point, what was going on was the Russians were installing listening devices inside the rebar. Right. Of the. Of the construction process. And apparently, at one point, they, you know, one of the wires on the. On one of these communications devices that were stuck in there had broken. And so they soldered it. The Russians did. They soldered it with aluminum. That showed up when they were x raying that particular large bit of material that they were going to install. And that was the way that they found out. And they said, what the fuck? Then they had to tear the entire goddamn thing down. I forget. I think it was two or three different floors of this embassy they had to remove. They bit by bit, shipped it back to the States to examine fully, and it was just loaded with listening devices by the Russians. Going to be the same with the Long story short, it's the same at Epstein's place. You got to tear it down.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah. It's a nice house, too. And it's, like, right. Right on the park.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

And I was like, wonder why that's still for sale and that asking for.

[Joe Rogan]

It, do you think?

[Mike Baker]

I think it's like, 60 or 70 million.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, I might look at it, find it.

[Mike Baker]

It's pretty dope. 2021 for 51 million.

[Joe Rogan]

Holy.

[Mike Baker]

But it's for sale now, though, right? That I didn't see. I'm pretty sure it's for sale right now.

[Joe Rogan]

What if it gets a premium because it's Epstein's place, You know? You know, like a celebrity premium for a home. I won case.

[Mike Baker]

You know, you'd have to be a complete psycho to want to live in that guy's house.

[Joe Rogan]

The same guy's gonna buy Diddy spot. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what that. God, but there's. So you've got. You've got the Epstein thing going on.

[Mike Baker]

Like, how does that get resolved? This is the question. Like, if you are the administration, you're looking at this puzzle, and you're trying to figure out how to make this a PR win.

[Joe Rogan]

Too late for that.

[Mike Baker]

What the fuck can you do at this point? Is it for sale? 65mil. Two years ago, it says.

[Joe Rogan]

Holy.

[Mike Baker]

This is not for sale right now. Not according to Zillow.

[Joe Rogan]

Zero bedrooms, only one bath. That's not a very nice place.

[Mike Baker]

This is one big hall.

[Joe Rogan]

It's just. Yeah. We call it the playroom.

[Mike Baker]

This is the house.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God. It looks like Saudi.

[Mike Baker]

Oh, is it 65 million bucks in Manhattan. The wild thing is, though, it's, like, right on the street. Like, anybody can come to your door, just knock on your door, like, walking by.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Prince Andrew.

[Mike Baker]

It's weird. Living there is weird.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Look at. Look at that.

[Mike Baker]

Meanwhile, no one can explain where he Got the money. No one could explain why he got so rich, you know. And Eric Weinstein, who is a, like a legit financial guy, said he talked to him. He had a meeting with him once. He's like, it was really clear that he's a construct. He's like, he doesn't know what he's talking about. He doesn't know anything. Yeah, that's not for sale right now. That didn't say it was. Oh, it's listed on Zillow, but not for sale. It's like everything's still on Zillow, kind of. Oh, like it was for sale.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Look it up.

[Mike Baker]

Maybe there's another service. That's. Because sometimes Zillow doesn't have all the stuff because someone I know was looking at it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, maybe it's on cheap old houses.

[Mike Baker]

That's a good site.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's a bargain. It's a fixer upper, though. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

But like, you'd have to go through that house. You'd have to hire, like the top of the food chain security experts to go, and they would probably recommend you take that house apart.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you did, you. You could do a total a sweep of the thing and, and, you know, but that's not going to guarantee. Right. You really have to pull the walls down. And, and look, because I, again, maybe I'm wrong. There's never say never, but I can't imagine that, that a psycho like, like Epstein, you know, wasn't enjoying videoing, you know, some of the activity that was going on. So. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

So what do you think, from your perspective? What do you think that was all about? Who do you think was involved in that? Do you think it was the Mossad? Do you think it was some rogue intelligence agency in America? Was it a coordinated effort?

[Joe Rogan]

You know what? I, I know this. You know, there's a lot of talk about, you know, did he have some sort of intel connection? Right, right. You know, from my perspective, it's complete speculation, but I will say, like, from an operational perspective, I have no idea. Was it Mossad? Was it anybody who knows? Right. But from an operational perspective, if you see a guy like this who's super connected and is, and, you know, all the way back to what 2008 was like his first trial. Right. So he's had a long history of these problems. But if, you know that he's kind of engaged in a variety of things. As an example, if I'm the, if I'm Chinese intel, right? And I, I just read the goddamn Entertainment news. And, you know, there's these rumors and allegations of, you know, high level people flying off to his island. I'm gonna think that's interesting because potentially if I could get an accessed source there, if I can get somebody right inside that operation, whether it's Ghislaine Maxwell or whether it's Epstein himself, whether it's somebody who's just on the outskirts of it, maybe I'll start picking up some pretty interesting leverageable information on people that maybe I want to influence.

[Mike Baker]

And it's so funny to me that it's always comes down to like, carnal needs and carnal desires. It's always sex. Because these guys, when you get to like this Bill Gates level and Bill Clinton level, you can't just go pick up gals at the bar.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

You know, if you're a super famous super freak and you know, you'll. You like chasing skirts but, you know, you can't do it. Like, what do you do?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you do what he did, right? Which is you get, you know, somebody to procure for you, which apparently was primarily Maxwell's job.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And she's out there. And, and you know, she was described, you know, usually as his girlfriend, but she was clearly operating as his pimp or whatever the female version of a pimp is.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah. Curator.

[Joe Rogan]

Curator. Yeah, it's a curator.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And so he's, you know, she's out there doing that. But, but look again, you know, I can't speak to, you know, the rumors about him working for one intel agency or another, but I will say if I'm working for an intel agency and I see something like that. Yeah. I might find that of interest. Right. And then I would, I would definitely go after somebody to see what's going on. Just if for no other reason then, you know, again, maybe it's a, it's a opportunity there, you know.

[Mike Baker]

Well, it's the easiest connect the dots puzzle of all time. You got rich, powerful people and hot chicks and probably drugs.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

And camera.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And I tell you, the Russians love nothing better than, you know, the, the truth, the reality is in terms of recruiting an asset. Recruiting an asset by using blackmail is, is tough, right? You got to, you got to. That window starts closing immediately, Right. In terms of their operational usefulness. Right. Because there's a lot of, there's a lot of issues there, right? You're. You're. You're blackmailing somebody for their cooperation. At some point that's gonna go south on you, Right. It's not like you've recruited somebody for ideological reasons, right. Or even something as straightforward as like they need the money because their kids sick or whatever it may be. So blackmails. But having said that, look, the, the Russians in particular love that, right. And Chinese intel. They'll do whatever works from their perspective. You know, the Agency, again people are going to say that's. The agency tries. The blackmail is never really ever on the table as an option because it always leads to a problem and sometimes those problems can be very, very bad.

[Mike Baker]

And what do you mean?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you know, the asset will turn on you, right. Next thing you know, you know you've got an agent working now, a double agent working for the other side, right. Because they're just, they're so over by the fact that they've been blackmailed and at some point they lose their, decide to roll for the other side.

[Mike Baker]

Are you like constantly monitoring them and looking at their phone?

[Joe Rogan]

There's only someone. No, not. There's only so much you can do, right. In terms of maintaining, particularly with, with a, with a hard target, particularly with a, an asset who's in a difficult or challenging environment, you know, Paris, and you've got limited access to them, whatever it may be. So you're really relying on, on clandestine communications. You don't have a lot of face to face meetings and at some point you never know when things are heading south. Right. And then the next thing you know, look, you know that. So it's, that's a, that's the operational reason for trying to avoid blackmail. Right. Has it ever been done? Well, sure, yeah. I mean, I'm not saying it hasn't been done of course, but some services go to it much quicker than others do. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Which services?

[Joe Rogan]

And I would. Well, again, the Russians are primary users of something like that. They don't because they've got a shotgun approach. Yeah, Israelis have been known to do that in the honey pot operations that they'll do and other things. But the Russians throw a lot of at the wall and see what sticks. Right. It's a very much a shotgun approach. Right. And you know, honestly sometimes you know that, that can work. Right.

[Mike Baker]

Wasn't that kind of if you thought about this island? If you're bringing award winning scientists, like famous people, politicians, world leaders all to one place, you're basically throwing as much shit against the wall as you can.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

And then you have all this stuff on all these different people and they know it. And so then you like, wasn't there like some CEO that had to step down because he wound up Giving Epstein. It was found out that he gave Epstein like $150 million that they couldn't explain why. Well, not the case, Jamie. So it's one of those things where there's obviously value in having all these people on your side.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

But when you do get all this information on these people, like, what are they trying to accomplish with it? This is the question. Are they trying to get support for Apollo CEO to step down after firm finds more payments to Jeffrey Epstein? 158 million. He paid the convicted sex offender 158 million.

[Joe Rogan]

What does it. If you can. Can you scroll down a little bit, Jamie?

[Mike Baker]

Yeah. His plan to step down. Chief, I've advised the Apollo board that I will retire as CEO before my seventh birth. 70th birthday in July. Remain as chairman. He's going to remain as a chairman. New York Times detailed at least 75 million in payments and found that Mr. Black had paid Epstein 158 million in a five year period ending in 2017. He also lent Mr. Epstein more than 30 million, only 10 million of which he was paid back. So that's a guy that. They got something on here.

[Joe Rogan]

I love this. He. Leon. Leon viewed Epstein as a confirmed bachelor with eclectic tastes. This was after his 2008 guilty plea. Yeah. Wow.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Mr. Epstein's advice was worth. Was worth perhaps 2 billion in tax savings to Mr. Black, according to the report. Right.

[Mike Baker]

But this is again, this is what Weinstein said. Eric said that this, like, this guy is not, he's not good. He doesn't know what he's talking about. Like, he wasn't a good financial advisor.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I mean, I think part of it is you can say, okay, why was he collecting people around him? Why was he doing, Was he keeping a file? Right. You still have to figure out what that file looks like. Like, you know, part of it could have been initially self preservation. Right. I mean, he's engaged in all sorts of activity. He gets a few people into it, then suddenly, you know, he doesn't look so bad. Right. And he's kind of protecting himself because now I'm surrounded by people who also have to keep that secret. Right. So, but then, but then the question becomes, you know, is at what point is he or somebody in his little tight circle there, are they approached. Right. By anybody who's interested in some of these folks. But we don't know because we don't know who the fuck's in these files. Right. So.

[Mike Baker]

Or if the files even exist.

[Joe Rogan]

If the files even exist. And apparently, you know, there's Nothing in there. According to Bam Bondi and Cash Patel.

[Mike Baker]

The whole thing's nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

And then, you know, have Bongino and Cash Patel saying he definitely killed himself. Like, what?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, what?

[Mike Baker]

Okay, this just the level of convenience. It's so convenient that the guards were asleep. So convenient that the cameras didn't work. So convenient that years later you have a recording of the outside of the cell, but a minute is missing from it.

[Joe Rogan]

Three minutes.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, three minutes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. They found.

[Mike Baker]

I was like, almost three minutes. Two minutes. Like, 53.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like the missing Watergate tape. Oh. I thought it was.

[Mike Baker]

Started off as a minute, and then people kept looking in the metadata and. Metadata? Like, okay, it was saved this many times, and actually up to three minutes missing.

[Joe Rogan]

God.

[Mike Baker]

Okay, that's plenty of time to kill somebody. Three minutes is more than enough time.

[Joe Rogan]

Three minutes. You could get a whole bunch of people killed by this.

[Mike Baker]

Then you saw that guy. That was his cellmate, too, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Guy is a fucking gigantic human being. A huge guy who is a mass murderer who killed multiple people. A bad cop who was built like a brick fucking shithouse. The kind of guy that you could really easily get to strangle somebody.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

It would take him. I could kill him in 30 seconds. How is this fucking giant dude could do it. Easy. Metadata from raw Epstein. No, thanks. Metadata from raw Epstein prison video shows approximately 2 minutes and 53 seconds were removed from one of the two stitched together clips. The cut starts off at the missing minute. Wow. Yeah. Shocker.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah. So a guy like that decides, yeah, he's gonna off himself again.

[Mike Baker]

But here's the thing. It's like these guys that are all involved in this are still. They've been around for a long time, and they have this mentality that existed before the Internet where you could just kind of put stuff out there and you wouldn't have all these psycho sleuths out there that are going to go over everything with a fine tooth comb, especially guys who are tech wizards who can look at the metadata and he can figure this kind of stuff out.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, shit died a lot quicker, you're right. So something would happen. And look, we still have adhd, right? Collectively as a nation, right? I mean, things move on. And I think maybe that's what they're. You know, some people are saying, look, they've called the recess on Capitol Hill because they figure by the time they come back in September, everybody will have moved on from this. Right? Yeah, I think they're wrong. I don't. I don't Think this is this again. This. This feels like. And. And just looks like that one of those handful of conspiracies. Again, you go to JFK or whomever that's just going to hang around.

[Mike Baker]

This is a line in the sand. This one's a line in the sand.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Because this is one where there's a lot of stuff about, you know, when we thought Trump was gonna come in and a lot of things are gonna be resolved, gonna drain the swamp, gonna figure everything out. And when you have this one hardcore line in the sand that everybody been talking about forever, and then they're trying to gaslight you on that.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you would have thought that. Yeah, I hope not. Oh, it's my wife.

[Mike Baker]

Should I answer silent buddy?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's on. You know, it was on silent, but it still goes. How does that happen? It literally is on silent and.

[Mike Baker]

Are you sure?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, no, I'm positive. Because it's got a little thing up top that says silent and it's compromised. My phone isn't.

[Mike Baker]

Trust you. You're friends with me.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, they don't trust you anymore. They did call me this morning. What are you going to talk about? I don't know.

[Mike Baker]

Do they ever talk to you about that? They ever have questions about your appearances here?

[Joe Rogan]

No, no, in fact, and I'm in the building on occasion, and we're actually working on a show that's going to be. It's going to be a great, great TV show based on this amazing museum that's inside agency headquarters. But nobody ever says that we have a really nice relationship. They don't tell me what to say if I go on TV to talk about something. They just like. It's not like they're gonna call up and say, well, here's our view on this.

[Mike Baker]

They trust you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, they trust me. I'm not gonna open my app and talk sources and methods, and at the same time, you know, I'm just gonna try to just talk from an operational perspective. But. Yeah, so that was my wife. Which reminds me, it's my boy Muggsy' birthday today.

[Mike Baker]

Happy birthday, Mugsy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, thank you very much.

[Mike Baker]

With a. With a thing like this, what is the general feeling about people that you talk to that are still in the agency or people that are still involved in the government? Like, how are they feeling about this? Because, like, the general public is outraged, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Do the people inside, are they frustrated? Like people that wanted this stuff to expose, to be exposed?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You know, it's funny because with the agency, it's not like the Bureau of the Agency. I think most people honestly don't really probably give a shit about the Epstein files. They're more concerned now about this release from Tulsi Gabbard and the talk about manipulating intelligence for the 2016 election and Russian collusion and all of that. That speaks more to the Agency than the Epstein files does. Just from a. Whose responsibility is whose right this is. Epstein thing is a DOJ FBI issue. I think if they're concerned about it, it's because of how it erodes trust in organizations, institutions. Right. And that's happened a. A lot. So, you know, I. There's a lot of. A lot of good people. I know. Again, every time I talk about the Agency, people are like, fuck you. You're such a shill. But there's a lot of good people doing very difficult work for the Agency.

[Mike Baker]

I believe that.

[Joe Rogan]

I believe that. And so, you know, I think if anything, they. They take it personally when people think, fuck the CIA. You gotta. You gotta burn it down and start over again, you know, like they said with the FBI as well.

[Mike Baker]

I've talked about that many times. Like, you don't know what the fuck is going on in the world. The world is filled with chaos. Like, you need people that are paying attention to that shit and they should be on your side. Yeah, they should be on the side of the American people paying attention to threats. If you'd think that that's. That not paying attention at all is going to do you any good when there's all these countries out there that are plotting constantly. You're crazy. No, this is a. You're living in a utopia. You're living in a fake world. The real world is filled with madness, and you gotta have people paying attention to it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but I think. So, I think that, you know, to answer that, that question, I think they're more. They're more focused on or interested in or, you know, looking at this issue of, you know, and it's. It's surfaced again right at the same time as the Epstein files right now. It's like sucking all the oxygen out of the room. For the past couple of days, Tulsi Gabbard comes out and says, I'm releasing these documents. She releases these documents.

[Mike Baker]

What do you think about all that? Like, so this is the accusation. They're. They. They're throwing around the word treason.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

They're saying that Obama knew that Russia did not meddle in the election, did not have any impact in the election, but yet promoted this idea. And then there's been some incredible clips of all these different news reporters, CNN and msnbc, just saying over and over and over again, clear evidence of Russian collusion.

[Joe Rogan]

And yeah, and you got Hillary Clinton saying, you know, is, you know, an era of illegitimacy around Trump's, you know, victory, you know, from 2016, because of this. I mean, she was very clear about it.

[Mike Baker]

And as many others, the noose is tightening on Trump. It's all gonna come out. He's an agent of Russia.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Adam Schiff coming out on camera numerous times saying, you know, I can't tell you what I've seen, but I've seen things as a lot more than circumstantial evidence about this collusion. So. So, yeah, they. But again, it's much more complex. It's always the same thing. It's much more complex than what folks tend to hear just in like a two and a half or three minute news segment. Right. So the Democrats want you to think there's nothing to see here in these documents. How could you possibly spend time doing this? You're just trying to distract from the Epstein files and the Republicans are saying Obama committed treason. Right. The reality is, as it oftentimes is somewhere in that middle. Right. There's a lot of conflating of issues here. So nobody is questioning Republicans or Democrats. Nobody's questioning that the Russians meddled in the election just like they did in the previous one, just like they did in this last one, just like they're always. But they've been meddling since World War II. Right. Since the end of World War II. They've, they've always had an interest in influencing U.S. politics.

[Mike Baker]

Now, when you say metal, do you mean like social media bots? Do you mean like influencing politicians? Like, what do you mean by metal?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, well, I mean, in the early days, what were they doing? In the early days? They would pay off trade union representatives, right. To push a certain line, to push for a softer tone, much like the Chinese do now. Push for a softer tone against the Soviet Union. Right. Or during World War II, to push for isolationism, keep the US out of the war. Right. Before the Nazis turned on the Soviet Union and they tended to need us. Or they would pay journalists to write articles pushing a particular point of view. And so there were those things. Now, social media meddling is a lot easier, Right? It's a lot cheaper. For sure they do that. Yeah, for sure they do that.

[Mike Baker]

And for sure they did that in 2016.

[Joe Rogan]

Absolutely. And nobody, nobody's questioning that. Right. What's Happening is that once again, there's a bit of a messaging problem from the Trump administration. Trump administration, at the end of the day, is saying what was bullshit was this Russia collusion angle. Right. Was the idea that, you know, this is complicated to explain and I'm not doing a very good job of it, but they're saying, yes, there was meddling, but you pushed a story, meaning Brennan and Comey and all the others that were involved in this. And now going up to the top with Obama saying you took what was a Intel Community assessment, an ica, because everything has an acronym that said there was no indication of Russian efforts to push or influence in a particular direction the election. And most of that initial reporting was on election infrastructure. So there was a fairly significant bit there that said the Russians weren't able to hack into election machines and actually alter vote counts. Right. So they said, we have seen no evidence of that. Right. And so you could argue that in part, the Trump administration is having a hard time explaining, much like I am, that the problem here wasn't that there was anybody saying, there's no meddling, there's meddling. They're just saying that you, at a certain point around about December 9th, I think it was, you had a meeting where Obama was sitting in there with Comey and Andrew McCabe and a variety of others, and the President himself requested a different intelligence community assessment, which is a little unusual for a president to say, I'd like you to do an ICA on a particular thing which is not.

[Mike Baker]

Can you elaborate on that? Like, so they were telling him, but.

[Joe Rogan]

They were telling him, we don't see that Russian meddling impacted the election. Basically, the Dems are saying, well, that's just about the electronic infrastructure, about the voting machines. Right. In reality, the ICA was also that instruction. The President's daily brief and the writing that had been done, the analysis had been done up to that point, was saying, we haven't seen anything that the Russian meddling influenced the outcome of the election. Well, then shortly. And then they squashed that particular piece. Right. They said, let's shelve that. And that's what a lot of the emails that Tulsi Gabbard released show. Right. All this agonizing, it's amazing anything shit gets done in the government. When you read these emails going back and forth between James Clapper at the DNI and other places.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, you sent me some of that stuff.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The analysts and others, and they're all saying, okay, well, what kind of tone do we give it what do we say about this? And you can also see in there that they're saying, we don't think the Steele dossier is credible. You know, the two senior Russian analysts, right. At the agency were telling John Brennan at the time, if you put the dossier in there as a piece of information into this assessment, you're compromising the credibility of the whole thing because we don't believe it. Right. And this is December. Right. And Brennan instructed, and it's in writing, instructed them to go ahead and do it. Right. Because it basically he liked the narrative of the Steele dossier. And so he chose that over the analytical process. Right. Over the discipline that you need to corroborate information that's going to go to a high level intel assessment. So if anybody's in the crosshairs right now, it's probably John Brown. Right. In terms of. Because he went up on Capitol Hill at some point and said that the Steele dossier didn't form an important point of. Wasn't in the document, wasn't in the ica. The ICA is now out there. And sure enough, it was not only in the annex, it was in the body of the report, which gives it much more credibility. So, yeah, so he. I'm not a lawyer, but I think he should be concerned a little bit about where that might go. But Obama reportedly, and it's in email traffic, you know, requested. Right. A different ica. And so shortly thereafter they produce.

[Mike Baker]

How does he say it?

[Joe Rogan]

I forget what the exact wording. I'm not gonna.

[Mike Baker]

Because that's a crazy thing. If you have a bunch of experts that give you an assessment, this is the facts, this is how it went down. You're like, I don't like those facts.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I don't want to. I don't think he said, I don't like the facts. And that's where this is going to be. Anybody who thinks Obama's gonna go to prison for treasonous conspiracy, I think again, much like Pam Bondi, you know, with her treating of the Epstein files, which was ridiculous. Tulsi Gabbard's gotten out over her skis. Treasonous conspiracy.

[Mike Baker]

Is that what she said?

[Joe Rogan]

That's what she said. It's not gonna happen. Anybody who thinks Obama's going to forget about it, you know, it'll be, you'll be lucky if you get any consequences of anything out of this. Again, I'm very cynical about where investigations go.

[Mike Baker]

Well, isn't this also based on the Supreme Court's justification of everything that Trump did while he was in office. So you can't try them for what they do when they're off immunity for.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, for acting, you know, under the authority as a president. But so. And it's also very nuanced, right? He can sit in there. He's perfectly got the right to sit in a meeting and say, okay, well, I tell you what, let's sit on this. Right? And James Clapper and the others agree, we're going to take this document, we're going to set it aside that we all worked on. Now we want to restructure it, focused on the outcome of the election and the Russian meddling and where this went and how they. So it was. He can do that, right? And it's nuanced and he can and never get in trouble because, yeah, fine, you've got the right to do that. I mean, it's not illegal by any means. But there is no doubt in my mind that there was a desire to. To drive this thing in a certain direction, right? And so there is no doubt in my mind that a. First of all, using the Steele dossier in there, it was just horseshit, right? Because that thing. There hasn't been any allegation in that Steele dossier that's been verifiable. And they knew that, right? So they went and they remember, they used that Steele dossier in part to then go to FISA courts and get warrants, right? So that's another issue that I think, from a legal perspective, again, not a lawyer, but I think some people should be probably concerned about how they represented that information, knowing. Right. Based on kind of what we're seeing from the document releases from Tulsi Gabbard. But again, you can see by virtue of how difficult I'm trying to explain this, it's much more complex than just them bad. These guys good, These guys good, These guys bad. Right? There's layers here that I think need to be examined. And I think that. That at the end of the day, you're not really going to get, much like every fucking everything else that happens in dc, you're not going to get a lot of satisfaction on this one. But I do think I'm convinced that, yeah, they drove this narrative shortly after into January when they released the new ica, then suddenly leaks to the press, and that's when the Russia collusion story happened. Right? And that's the, you know, that's the. But that's the thing that they should be focused on, right? They're losing the message because they're throwing shit out there, there's a lot of detail, and people get bored. And so I think that's a problem they're gonna have here, trying to push this thing forward. And I do think also that Tulsi Gabbard should have been a little bit more circumspect in the way she explained this. Right. And how she described the actions. Because I think there were some people who are culpable in terms of. Of going after this narrative and pushing this Russia collusion story that then wasted a couple of years and God knows how much money on investigations and impeachment hearings and all the rest of it.

[Mike Baker]

Why do you think she chose to frame it that way? Do you think she was instructed to do that or she was guided to do that or encouraged to do that? Because if it's not warranted, if you don't believe it's warranted based on the evidence that you've looked at. She's the Director of National Intelligence. How does.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I think she's. Part of it is the realization that, look, I mean, you put that information out there. I think it would have been more appropriate if she'd released all the documentation, said, here's. And lay out in a very good, like, almost like a PowerPoint presentation for the. You know, make it very simple for the press, because the press isn't inclined to pursue this. Because the press were complicit. Right, right. So you're trying to say, this is what these people did and you helped them. Now, what we want is for you, meaning the media, to uncover all of this and report on it. They're not gonna. They're fucking not gonna. They were winning awards, journalistic awards, for their coverage of the Russia collusion story.

[Mike Baker]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

So the idea that they're gonna somehow now say, yeah, oh, that was a problem. So I think they should have maybe just made this more factual based. Stayed away from the, you know, the sort of. The hyperbolic statements about treason and all the rest of it, and then, you know, tried to explain it to the American public in a way that they can digest a little bit better. Right. But when you throw out things like treasonous conspiracy, once again, much like with the Epstein thing, you're creating this kind of howling mob that's gonna expect something, and I just don't know that they're gonna get it. But.

[Mike Baker]

Right, so do you think that it's possible that she was encouraged to do this? Because this kind of takes away some of the heat off of the Epstein thing?

[Joe Rogan]

I'm sure that was a thought process in there somewhere?

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, possibly. Yeah, I think it's a reasonable assumption.

[Joe Rogan]

Look, it's an important issue, right, if you have the intel community or you have, you know, the, the White House deciding to themselves, look, we know this, this information is kind of bullshit, but it certainly serves a narrative which is we want to delegitimize the new president that's coming in because we, we can't stand him, then that's a, a really, really serious problem that needs to be examined.

[Mike Baker]

It's also so short sighted because do you not know that that information is eventually going to come out that's going to compromise the confidence that people have in anything that the intelligence agencies put forth after that?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, well, I think a lot of, you know, part of what was going on was the expectation that Hillary Clinton was going to win. Right. So like with the Steele dossier, they try to, you know, dig up leverageable information or dirt on, on Trump. You know, I think they were all under the assumption, well, Clinton's gonna win, doesn't really matter what we're doing right now because she's going to cover for us. Right, right. And, you know, I don't think they ever expected Trump to win. So, you know, then suddenly they've got to shift course a little bit and think, okay, all right, well, now that, that didn't work, now what? Well, let's, let's say that we've got this document over here talking about Russian meddling. You know, is it, is it that much of a push to kind of say that we believe there might have been collusion and the media ran with it. Right. They didn't have to do much.

[Mike Baker]

They ran with it for three years.

[Joe Rogan]

For three years.

[Mike Baker]

Three years. Hardcore. All the time. Every time they talked about Trump.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Which is crazy. Regardless of how you feel about Trump, if you're the biggest Trump hater in the world. I understand, but understand this, that that is dangerous. It's dangerous to have the media in lockstep with the government who's saying something that's not true.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and they scream about, you know, threats to democracy all the time. Let's just be a little bit more self aware, realize, you know, what that looked like. Right. You can't, you know, people were just bullshitting about evidence that they had or that they saw. Right.

[Mike Baker]

Well, the Democrats saying anything's a threat to democracy is wild when they haven't had a primary since 2012. That's wild. Yeah, yeah, that's really wild. I mean, they kick Bernie out. They made sure RFK Jr wasn't in. And then when it came time for Kamala to run, no primary at all, they just put her in position.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

That's wild.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. They didn't know what else to do. And. And by the way, there's so much going on right now today, speaking of Kamala. And now we're going to speak about Biden. But today was his name the chief of staff, the former chief of staff for Biden? I think he was only there for a couple of years. Ron Klain was up on Capitol Hill to talk because they're holding these interviews up on Capitol Hill to try to figure out what the hell was going on. Right. At what point did people decide they're gonna cover up the mental condition of Joe Biden? And that's another look.

[Mike Baker]

I mean, and then they're all pleading the fifth.

[Joe Rogan]

They're all pleading the fifth. Kevin o', Connor, the White House doctor, pled the fifth. Senior advisor to Jill Biden. What's his name? Bernal. Andrew Bernal, pled the fifth. Right. You know, and Ron Klain apparently stayed up there for a couple hours talking. Right. But, you know, again, he wasn't there for the last couple years of the administration, I think. But he was there for the debate prep. Right. And he's come out publicly and said, I was shocked at his condition. So, you know, people.

[Mike Baker]

I think they set him up for failure in that debate. First of all, why are they having a debate that late? Why would they agree to a debate at 9pm yeah. When you got a guy who's really old and kind of broken down, why would you do that?

[Joe Rogan]

Television timing. Who knows?

[Mike Baker]

And it seemed like. Didn't someone blame it on him being on Ambien?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Hunter did that fantastic interview that Hunter just did with. I forget his name, Andrew Callahan or something like that. Yeah, he. He referenced. Now he's walking it back, saying, I, you know, I wasn't. Meaning that he was on Ambien during the debate. I'm just saying, you know, they had him on Ambien because he was. Travel schedule. The guy was. Guy was at Camp David and resting in Delaware for 10 days prior to the debate. So, yeah, I don't know.

[Mike Baker]

Jesus, what a mess. I think they set him up. I think they wanted him out. And this is the way to do it. Get him in the debate. Don't give him his medicine.

[Joe Rogan]

Excuse me.

[Mike Baker]

Don't give him the proper medication to keep him up and peppy and let him out there all confused. And apparently he had a cold at the time, too. So.

[Joe Rogan]

But if you. If they were going to do that, wouldn't you think that they would, I don't know, have a better plan? A plan B?

[Mike Baker]

No, they didn't have a plan. And I think the Biden administration, the people didn't want him to step down. There's people inside the organization that didn't want him to sit down, particularly supposedly Jill. Jill did not want him to step down. But then there's the cancer thing. Like, how do they not know that he has cancer?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, they. Stage four. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Which is crazy. Like that. That's years of developing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Yeah. I just think if. If there was a. If there was a plan. If there was a nefarious plan to have him step down, I think they thought he would get through it. I think they did.

[Mike Baker]

He might have if he performed the way he performed in the first debate.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I don't know. I just. It seems to me that. That they're. They were caught in the headlights at the point where. Where he did so poorly. Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna. I know.

[Mike Baker]

Christ.

[Joe Rogan]

No, yeah, it's. It's the Ambien. It's starting to kick in.

[Mike Baker]

Have you ever taken that stuff?

[Joe Rogan]

No, no. Have you?

[Mike Baker]

Scares the. Out of me. No.

[Joe Rogan]

You know. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

No. My friend Kevin took it and he got up in the middle of the night, cooked a meal, went to bed, and didn't know he cooked a meal. So he went back and saw the plates in the kitchen, thought someone broke into his house and cooked, like. Yeah, that's not good.

[Joe Rogan]

No, no. I've never taken. Have you taken Xanax?

[Mike Baker]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

No. Neither.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, that stuff's scary. That's what Jordan Peterson up. That stuff's really hard to kick.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Benzodiazepine is one of the hardest things to kick. It's one of the things that if you get off a cold turkey can kill you.

[Joe Rogan]

Good God.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, yeah. And they put everybody on it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's what I was gonna say. It seems like it's readily available, as is Adderall. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Readily available and super bad for you.

[Joe Rogan]

Although during the. What was it? During the pandemic, you couldn't get Adderall. I remember that being the issue. Right. I remember writing stories about that.

[Mike Baker]

Make it overseas.

[Joe Rogan]

Couldn't. Yeah, exactly. As they do with most of our pharmaceuticals, including what we've been talking about.

[Mike Baker]

And so then people probably bought black market Adderall, which probably has Fentanyl in it, which probably contributed to a lot of deaths.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. I got this voice now, I sound like Kim Kard's, you know, Betty Davis eyes, Kim Karnes. It's very sultry voice I've got going on here for a second. Yeah, well, I suspect most people have.

[Mike Baker]

Time waits for no one.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. But I think, yeah. So the Biden, let's call it a cover up. That's again, it's an example of how people are not more upset about that. Right. I mean, again with the idea that we've got ADHD and everybody's moving on, but you would imagine that that story if none other. Right. Because it's not quite as complicated as the, as the intel issue or even as the Epstein files. It's pretty straightforward. People hiding the condition of the leader of the free world. So anyway, that's, it's just a thought. I'm surprised that it's gone away.

[Mike Baker]

Well, then there's the auto pen as well. That's another wild thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Because so many of these people that were pardoned were pardoned by auto pen. And so you have to, it begs the question like, like how was that negotiated? Like, who was involved in that? Who made those decisions? What was their motivation? Were they compensated?

[Joe Rogan]

Like, was. And look, he was, he says, the former President Biden says he was advised on all of this, he was in on all of these. And, and the auto pen was primarily used for, you know, you know, sort of rote pardons, collective pardons, where they're pardoning, you know, for an action if you know. And so you have a number of people included in that that you're giving pardons to. But all of this, whether it's that, whether it's any of the other things we've been talking about, at the end of the day, it's no wonder. Look, people's confidence level in politicians and government institutions and the media is at an all time low. Right. And I think that's a really dangerous thing, but I don't see how you walk the dog back on that. Right. I mean, how do you do that? How do you suddenly create more trust in any of those things?

[Mike Baker]

Well, I think a lot of people thought that draining the swamp would create trust.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Mike Baker]

The idea of Trump coming into office, we had four terrible years under Biden. Trump's going to come in and clean things up. Everything's going to make sense now. But everything's just as chaotic, if not more and just as confusing. I mean, there's good things that are happening. The closing of the border is clearly a good thing. That was fucking scary. And dangerous.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. No, look, from a policy perspective, look, the other day they had, like, nine crossings, right? Nine. Right. Compared to maybe 10,000, 11,000, 12,000 a day in the previous administration. So that's a huge win. And that's what they should be talking about. And they should be talking about the trade deals. Right? They got a good trade deal with Japan. They got a good trade deal with Indonesia. They've got a good trade deal with Vietnam. They signed one with the UK they're getting ready for the European Union. There's things that they should be talking about. And instead, once again, we're fucking consumed with what we've been discussing. Epstein and the intel manipulation. You know, I mean, you think in Biden's condition and Obama, treason. Yeah, yeah. So it's really. It's disappointing. But, you know, again, I don't know how, you know, I'm not sure where I'm going with this other than the fact that it's very depressing if you think about it. You know, where our focus is right now. Right. There's a lot of flashpoints around the world, a lot of real serious crises. Right. And threats to national security and concerns. And, you know, the White House can't seem to, you know, get a focus right on things. But, yeah, the border thing is a great win. That's a very. From a national security issue. That's a terrific win.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah. The. The fact that it was open for so long is so insane to think that anybody would think that would be a good idea. Unless you wanted chaos.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. That is always discussed as like, was it intentional? I don't see how it's not intentional. Right. And I mean, that's because we can see now, after six months of the second Trump administration, that you can fix the problem. Right.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, they could have fixed it. Very fix it.

[Joe Rogan]

They could have done it. And they. And they chose not to. So, you know, clearly there's a lot of people in that, in the Dem Party and the Democratic Party that, you know, are fans of or believe in open borders.

[Mike Baker]

But there's also the moving of the people to swing states and the fact that it changes the number of congressional seats regardless of whether or not someone's there legally or illegally. Once they do a sentence on how many people live there, it raises the number of congressional seats that's available.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Which is crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, yeah, all that.

[Mike Baker]

All that's so wild that it's so transparent.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, look at, you know, look at Europe. I know that's kind of a. You know, people talk about this. But look at France, look at the uk. I mean, you know, much smaller environments. And you can see what happens when you have massive migration, right? And it's. And look, hey, I'm not against immigration. I'm just saying it should be legal. You should know who's coming across your border. You should have security. You can't pay for everybody, right? I mean, so opening up your borders and say, come on in and we're going to provide you with, you know, whatever. Mamdani in New York is providing new free grocery stores and free bus and free childcare, and everything's going to be free.

[Mike Baker]

And they're going to tax businesses.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what he said. He said, and if you're wondering how I'm going to pay for this, I'm going to tax the rich, right? You think like, oh, my God, how, you know, Stalin, you've been going all the way back to, you know, communists have been talking that way for years, feeding the same bullshit lines to Gor where just now, Mom, Donnie's just talking to a new generation of sheep. And, you know, he could well end up as a mayor.

[Mike Baker]

Utopian perspectives are really attractive to young people because you see the way these older rich people have been running the world. It's all corrupt. They don't care. They're all capitalists and monsters. All they care about is money. I don't have any money. I want them to take the money away from the rich people and give it to the poor people, and then everything will be fine. Yeah, it's like a common thought amongst young people.

[Joe Rogan]

I get it. If you're a young person, you probably look at your parents, if your parents have done okay, done well, and you're thinking, well, that, you know, maybe I'm not gonna be able to do that. Right. I mean, a lot of young folks now are saying, I can't buy a house. How am I gonna get a down payment for a house? Right? You know, I'm drowning in school loans, which of course they took out. But so I get the frustration in a sense. And so I think, you know, Mamdani is doing again what a lot of slick socialists or communists in have done, right? He's speaking to the. To the masses and he's using all these platitudes and there will be an element that. That buys into it. Right. Because they haven't seen how shitty it can be.

[Mike Baker]

Well, it seems like a huge element bought into it. He won the primary.

[Joe Rogan]

He won the primary. Yeah. No, I.

[Mike Baker]

So what happens now? So Eric Adams is the current mayor. So if this guy wins the primary, is Adams even. Is it possible for him to run? Like, what. How does it work now?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I guess. I mean, he could run as a. He could run as an independent, which maybe is his intention, because he apparently.

[Mike Baker]

Is still running, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Mike Baker]

He plans on running.

[Joe Rogan]

Wasn't Cuomo also planning on running, or did he drop out?

[Mike Baker]

I believe he's still trying to run as well.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

So he lost the primary. And I think people think that. People are so horrified that Mondani's in, that they think that maybe it's possible. And then there's Curtis. Sliwa still wants to wear that stupid fucking hat.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. God bless Curtis Lee.

[Mike Baker]

We're both. Maybe he'd have a chance.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. At some point, he's got to stop that. But I think there's a good chance that if Eric Adams ran as an independent, maybe that's the plan. And if Cuomo dropped out, I think if they split the vote, then I think Mamdani wins, but they're going to have to. And the Democrats, you know, nationwide seem to have some real concern over Mamdani. Right. Because that's not the message they want to send at a time when they see sort of this cultural shift in America where we think, okay, we might be done with this whole woke issue. Right. And then they see Mumdani out there slinging the bullshit, doubling down. And you got Bernie Sanders backing him, you got Jerry Nadler in New York backing him. You got, obviously, AOC backing them. So they. They. Rightly so, because what do they want to do? They want to reclaim the White House. Right. And they want to reclaim the Senate. They want to. They're not going to do it riding the backs of. Of. Of a. A valed socialist. Right. Who wants to more than reclaim. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Essentially a communist. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. So. And he's, you know, he's, you know, again, you know, God bless the ideology of the youth, but, you know, people should, you know, do a little bit more research into his ideas and how they've worked elsewhere. Right. And. And maybe they will.

[Mike Baker]

There's only one way to enforce those ideas, and that's with guns.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's it.

[Mike Baker]

That's how you force government.

[Joe Rogan]

Grocery store. Get the hell over there.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah. Government grocery stores and taking money away from the rich people. Like, how are you gonna enforce that? You need force.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, they're trying to. I mean, look, California tried to. I think they. Maybe they've even enacted it. They've tried to figure out a Way to tax people who are leaving the state.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, that was a thought that they had that I don't think is constitutional.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Baker]

They wanted to. I think it was five years. So if you had left with it so me, I could get taxed.

[Joe Rogan]

God, for.

[Mike Baker]

Even though I've been out there for five years. But that's just.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it.

[Mike Baker]

They're just so irresponsible with what they've done with the tax money. They have some of the highest taxes in the country, and it's chaos. And then they're. They're also, like, upset that people want to film what's going on in the Palisades in Malibu.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was there not too long ago, and nothing. Nothing's happening. It's still a war zone. Right. You drive up towards Malibu and everything's just gutted.

[Mike Baker]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

So you think. And it's because you've got thousands and thousands of regulations in place that prevent, you know, the reconstruction. Right. Just trying to get a simple permit for something takes you forever and.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, it's gonna be years.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I think it's gonna be interesting because Gavin Newsom, obviously, is in sort of a soft campaign right now to set the table to run for president. I mean, he's desperate. You know, he's like some kid who wants to be the class president.

[Mike Baker]

See him on Sean Ryan's podcast.

[Joe Rogan]

I did not. I'm sorry, I missed that one.

[Mike Baker]

He's doing podcasts. Wow. It was a disaster.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he's got his own podcast, right?

[Mike Baker]

Allegedly.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So how'd he do on Sean's.

[Mike Baker]

Terrible.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, of course.

[Mike Baker]

Terrible. It was terrible. I mean, there's only so much he can say. Like, the record speaks for itself. His record is terrible. And that's people fleeing the state. The disaster that came about because of the fire, the homeless situation is untenable. It's all madness.

[Joe Rogan]

But look, if you look at the Democrat Party and you say, okay, so what does that mean? Right? Because right now they're flailing about, right? They're doing this autopsy of what happened from this last election, even though they're not going to address the issue of Joe Biden. And at what point did we know that he shouldn't be running? They're going to leave that off the table. But the purpose of the autopsy is essentially to try to figure out what's our next step, who's our next leader. And they did a survey not that long ago, and they said, who's the top of the Democrat Party and the Top three individuals were aoc, Kamala Harris and Bernie Sanders. And none of them got more than, like, a 10% of the total on the survey. So when you've got those three as your option and you're trying to figure out how do you appeal more to, you know, a larger mass? They got an issue because it's not. Yeah, I agree. It's not going to be Gavin Newsom. It won't be Pete Buttigieg.

[Mike Baker]

They've got a solution. Jamie, I just texted you something. This is the solution.

[Joe Rogan]

The solution. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Here's the solution.

[Joe Rogan]

It's coming up. I hope it's not Hillary.

[Mike Baker]

Finally, a Democrat who could shine on Joe Rogan's show. Hunter Biden is Unrepentant by Helen Lewis. Helen, take your medication.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God.

[Mike Baker]

He did the best ad for crack ever, though. Yeah, it was a great ad for crack.

[Joe Rogan]

It was not just an ad. It was a. It was a cooking show that. That taught American youth how make crack. And it was. I was astounded. As he sat there, nobody. I mean, he loves crack more than anything in the world. Right?

[Mike Baker]

It sounded great.

[Joe Rogan]

He was romantically involved with crack.

[Mike Baker]

He said it's safer than alcohol.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, yes. Take that to the bank, kids. Holy shit.

[Mike Baker]

What the crack. Talk about, like, not learning from what happened during the crack epidemic. Ruined American cities.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. No, which reportedly was done by the. The agency, by the way.

[Mike Baker]

Reportedly. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Again, conspiracy theories, but, yeah, I. Excuse me. Battling a summer cold, apparently.

[Mike Baker]

It's probably the allergies. There's so many allergies here in Austin.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, God. Yeah. That interview with. How is it. Apparently the family has no control over him, but how is it that they allow him to go and do podcasts or interviews of any sort? Right. They need to do an intervention and, you know, look, I hope he's clean. I hope he's not, you know, is.

[Mike Baker]

He ain't clean. When he was talking about. I mean, he said. I'm reluctant to explain this, but he was being honest about, like, why it works and what's so euphoric about it?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it feeds into. The Democrats have decided, apparently, that they need to be tougher. Right. Because after the last election, and so they would send Tim Waltz out there and, you know, Elmer Fudd and in his hunting gear to try to. Try to appeal to middle America. And so I can see it, you know, and you see, you know, more Democrats getting out there and swearing because that makes them tougher. So that interview with Hunter Biden, I can see, feeds into this idea that The Democrat strategists have is we've got to be more mainstream. Right. We've just got to be. Which again is kind of in part why they're so concerned over Mamdani in New York City.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, well they were trying for a long time to squash masculinity and frame it all as being toxic and people rebelled against that in a huge way.

[Joe Rogan]

Eventually. It took a while.

[Mike Baker]

Well, a lot of young men in particularly went to the right because of that. And a lot of young men that would ordinarily have probably voted Democrat if you were just fucking reasonable, but you turned them into villains for no reason other than just being men. And that was a narrative that people were really sick of. And it's like, like the pendulum swings one way and the other way. It always does. It always has. This is how we course correct, we try to figure out our way through this world and people go one way too far and then they over correct going the other way and then we try to bring it back to the middle and it never really kind of goes there.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, no, you're right, it is. And that's been the problem for quite some time is. It is, it's like that pendulum. You have you, you're over here and then instead of it like settling in the center, center, you're back over here. And every, and that happens every, every administration chains. Right. So you get this knee jerk reaction. And you know, from a legislative perspective that's a real problem. Right. Because you never, you really never do get shit done. Right. Because you're bouncing from extreme to extreme.

[Mike Baker]

It's also a problem with this four year term thing. It's like every four years we have a new person or the same person does it twice. These are the options, the only options that you have. So you have, have this terrible situation where you're always like on the other side and there's no, there's no like hey, this is the President now let's all work together.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. What if you had a, a setup like, like Mexico, Mexico has a presidency where you can, you, you serve a six year term and that's it, you're done one term. But it's six years. I don't know.

[Mike Baker]

It's the same thing. Yeah, same thing, you know, was like we, these people fucked it up, we're going to do a better job and then they get in and it's the same fucking thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, and also you get the self interest. Obviously, obviously that's not rocket science. But if you can be a senator for 46 years or however long, which is nuts. Which is nuts.

[Mike Baker]

And you can make hundreds of millions of dollars somehow or another, right?

[Joe Rogan]

And that's another thing I always wonder, how do people not. And again, maybe some intrepid investigative journalists, if there are any left. I mean, who wouldn't want to do a story about this? The wealth gains by politicians. Just look at the past 10 years, right? And say. And take them on both sides, right? So you look at Chuck Schumer and aoc, and you look at, on the other side, you look at Grassley and you look at Mitch McConnell and whatever, right? And you look at those and that would make a fascinating series if he just said, how the fuck did you make your money?

[Mike Baker]

It's 100%. Both sides too, which is so important because everybody wants to point to Pelosi. And Pelosi made a lot of money for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure.

[Mike Baker]

But it's a lot of them. It's a lot of them.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, we do a. I don't, I don't handle any of our finances because I'm not smart enough, but. And we do have a fund that tracks Pelosi, right? There's a Pelosi tracker fund. And it's done very well. Right? It's done very well. And I'm always fascinated because I'm thinking, well, of course it does well, because you're sitting up there on goddamn Capitol Hill, you hear in these hearings, you hear about developments, right? And it doesn't have to be about a particular company. It could be about our particular dealings with a country. Right. And regulatory concerns with that country. Or it could be about a sector and where we're going. And you can, yes, of course you can use that information to your benefit, unless you're a.

[Mike Baker]

But it shouldn't be legal, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Shouldn't be legal.

[Mike Baker]

No, no, it's insider trading.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Like they put Martha Stewart away for insider trading.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. So how about, you know, politicians? But actually they put her away for lying. Did they?

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, they didn't get her on insider trading, they got her for lying. Oh, because, you know, during the investigation she didn't tell the truth about something. But they didn't actually. I don't believe she was actually jailed for insider trading.

[Joe Rogan]

It's always the COVID up, but it's.

[Mike Baker]

Always the COVID It's all just horseshit when someone like Nancy Pelosi is able to do it legally. If you're able to make hundreds of millions of dollars legally through some where your, your salary is so low. Most people who make and not that it's low. But most people who make a salary, it's a, it's a great salary. But Most people make $170,000 a year. Might have 170,000 in the bank. Yeah, okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

They won't have 200 million. Yeah, that's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

And they'll argue. I get a lot of it from speeches and from books and I don't, I don't think you do.

[Mike Baker]

Well, you can track it. You can see how much money should be in the stock market.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that's what I'm saying. That would be a fascinating series if that's what you did, is if you did asset tracing and, you know, a financial review of, of, you know, modern day politicians. How did you make your goddamn money?

[Mike Baker]

Also, why are you still doing it? You're older than Biden. She's older than Biden. Like, chill out.

[Joe Rogan]

Just. I know, but go on a vacation. It'll never happen, people. It's not even about the money. It's about, it's about the access, the power, the people, you know, who carry your bags and toady after you, you know, and then they love that shit. So I get it. I get what the attraction is, is, I'm just saying that, you know, if, if, if we had any balls, you know, we would have had enacted term limits quite some time ago. Yeah. Anyway.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah. Well, at the very least, they should block insider trading. You, I'm sure you've seen that time when she was questioned about insider trading.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, we should be able to participate. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

You're not participating, lady. You're, you're making hundreds of millions of dollars.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

It's insane.

[Joe Rogan]

And this is not a partisan. I agree with you 100. It's not a partisan issue.

[Mike Baker]

Not at all.

[Joe Rogan]

Everybody gets up on there.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah. If you look at the trades, if you look at it between the red and the blue, it's across the board. They're all doing it. It's. I think it's like it lures them in. I think once they get into office, and even if they have good intentions, they get lured in by a corrupt system. And then they play ball.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

And then they get paid.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Well, and then, and then you get a lifetime pension. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Which again, makes no sense, you know, how about you, how about you say, okay, fine, you're going up there on Capitol Hill, you get your pension. While you're up there, your pay is maybe similar to, I don't know, the military, your congressman maybe get a major's pay. I have no Idea, I'm just making that shit up. But take the financial incentives and the excitement out of it and maybe you get a different group of people who want to pursue that, that, that work and then they just go the hell back to wherever they came from and work a job.

[Mike Baker]

But also there's a problem that the campaigns are so ugly and we've agreed sort of as a society that that's how we do it and that these people are going to attack each other. You know, I remember one of the things during the. But when Biden was running, when Kamala Harris was saying that he was guilty of sexual assault. Like you remember that. And then, and then afterwards she gets interviewed. I think it was by Colbert. She's like, it was a debate. Yeah, yeah, it was a debate. Like imagine that it's a debate. And so you're willing to say something in a debate that's not true?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's this policy that you can. I think it's partly just a disdain for the American voter and the belief that you can, people will move on. And they do. Maybe that's, you know, it's a self fulfilling prophecy. People tend to, you know, forget pretty quickly.

[Mike Baker]

Well, we're overwhelmed by information now. We are constantly, consistently overwhelmed by the news cycle. And it is almost impossible. You have to have like some sort of a Mike Ben style recall in your head where you can keep track of everything because it's just coming at you so fast. And Doge and Elon and this and that. I had some guy asked me last night, do you think that the Elon Musk and Donald Trump thing was staged? And I go, do you think it's staged? He's like, absolutely. I think it's all fake. I go, wow. Do you think that they made an agreement that Elon would say that you're on the Epstein client list and that's why you won't release the file? You think that like Donald and Elon came to that agreement?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Just sitting around over a Diet Coke thinking, yeah, that's a good idea.

[Mike Baker]

They're all in on it. They're all in on it. Like, are you out of your fucking mind?

[Joe Rogan]

What do you think about Musk's political party?

[Mike Baker]

First of all, my wife told me, you really can't name it the American Party. It's not legal.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Mike Baker]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Why?

[Mike Baker]

I don't know. Yeah, she's told me. I believed her. Jamie will find out.

[Joe Rogan]

He didn't follow up. He didn't follow up. You weren't interested? Thanks, honey.

[Mike Baker]

We were dinner she goes, you know, you can't just call your party the America Party. I go, really? She goes, no, you can't. You can't use the term America for your party, which makes sense, but, no, I would think you couldn't, because I'd be like you. I'm the America Party. It's the whole country.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what I'm saying?

[Mike Baker]

Like, if you decide you're the America Party and I'm against the America Party, well, that sounds like I'm against America, I guess.

[Joe Rogan]

But you couldn't. You take. I'm calling the American Party. I'm gonna trademark that name.

[Mike Baker]

That was my problem with the Patriot Act. Like, you can't call it the Patriot act. You. Because then if you go against that, you're against the Patriots.

[Joe Rogan]

Goddamn right. That's right.

[Mike Baker]

Crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

The terrorists win. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Is it legal to call your party the America Party? I'm looking into. It says, for example, additionally, New York State laws outlawed the use of words like independent, independence, America, and American, the names of political parties.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. There you go.

[Mike Baker]

There you go.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, so she's right. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

So listen, just in New York. Got to come up with it. Oh, just in New York. It sounds like. So nationally it's legal.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, if it's in New York, I'll bet it's.

[Mike Baker]

What does an independent call himself in New York then? If you run as an independent and it says you can't.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you can run as an independent. You can't call your party the Independent Party. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

It's all quite sus, isn't it?

[Joe Rogan]

Sus.

[Mike Baker]

Look at you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I know.

[Mike Baker]

Everything Sus.

[Joe Rogan]

Likewise.

[Mike Baker]

But it's, you know, like, what is he gonna do with this party? You're not gonna get, you know, how's that gonna work?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I don't think this. I, I, you know, as much as I don't. I think there should be room. I guess I should say it that way. There should be room for another party, 100%, but I don't think there's enough oxygen to do it.

[Mike Baker]

Here it is. The name America Party has been used by several different political parties in the United States, most famously as the official name of the Know Nothings is my favorite. That's what you should call it. The. Why isn't he called the Exposure Party? He likes the term X Nativist group, sometimes dubbed the America's third party, that rose to prominence in the years leading up to the US Civil War. The Know Nothings were in the. During the Civil War. That's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

The name America Party attempt to brand the party as a force of patriotism, unity. That's what you're saying? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

As well as the names of an anti Mormon party in Utah and the supporters of George Wallace.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Mike Baker]

Jesus Christ.

[Joe Rogan]

There he is. He's not a handsome man.

[Mike Baker]

Boy, he looks evil.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he does.

[Mike Baker]

Some people I'm not you and your up eyebrows, bro. Some people just look like they are. You know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

George Wallace, I remember watching, I mean, I was tiny, but I remember, I still this day, I watching that when he got shot at that rally that he was at. Oh, that put him in the wheelchair. But yeah, I, I don't know, I, I again, I don't think there's room for a third party. There should be, but I just don't see it happening. I, I, you know, we're, we're too entrenched in, in the way that we do things and you start splitting the vote and I think, you know, maybe it's, who knows, maybe I get more chaos than we've currently got.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah. I mean, one, those two together, it's like, geez, I saw that coming. I was like, this is not going to work out.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

When, when his son was with him in the Oval Office and the son told him to shut, shut up. The little kid, don't drop this. Shut up. And he said, you're not the president. Oh my God, what is that?

[Joe Rogan]

It actually lasted longer than I thought it would.

[Mike Baker]

Well, it destroyed Elon.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Destroyed his company, destroyed Tesla. I mean, when? And then on top of that, when people started like, putting swastikas on Teslas and firebombing Tesla shops and.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Madness. Madness. Yeah, madness. I mean, and then people were probably very reluctant to buy a Tesla because they were worried like, hey, if I buy this fucking thing and park it somewhere someone's gonna key it.

[Joe Rogan]

I know somebody who actually covered up the Tesla insignia on their car worried.

[Mike Baker]

Someone the other day on the highway and they had a thing on their car that said, I bought this before Elon went crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

God. Like, oh, God, you know, you're conceding.

[Mike Baker]

You'Re giving into the mob. And it was the dumbest mob, but.

[Joe Rogan]

There was an element also that was like, oh, you know, it's legitimate form of protest. You know what, to blow up a fucking Tesla dealership. Right. That's a blow up charging station.

[Mike Baker]

It's certainly not legitimate to destroy people's private property who are just paying a lease on a car that they probably had for three or four Fucking years before any of this shit went down.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Baker]

But it's nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

But they do it if someone walks by and keys the car. Car, Right. Keys a car, a Tesla. And you can just a, they, I don't know why they all tend to look alike, but they do. And they all just look alike, all that. They're just like this, this, this sense of self righteousness. Like I'm, I deserve to do this because I'm in the right. I'm do, I'm on the side of good. So therefore I could do whatever the I want. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

So anyway, mentally ill people.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

And there's a lot of them in this country and unfortunately you can weaponize them.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And we've also played into it. Right. I mean, so it's, you know, the U.S. olympics, by the way, the U.S. olympic Committee just said, you know, males will not be able to participate in female sports.

[Mike Baker]

Shocker.

[Joe Rogan]

Shocking. I had no idea that we had to actually say that out loud, but apparently we do.

[Mike Baker]

Were they going to take that gold medal away from that dude who pretended he was a woman and won the boxing?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

God, that was bizarre off, man. So crazy. It's like that's where this woke thing just hits the wall where people who have daughters and people are just like, like, hey, look, I want you to live your life and be whoever you want to be. I really do. I don't, I don't want to infringe upon your right to express yourself, but at a certain point in time when you impose this on other people and you fuck up their lives and Vivek had a great term. He was calling it the tyranny of the oppressed.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Mike Baker]

That the oppressed people who are legitimately oppressed in a lot of ways, then they turn that on everybody else and they, they want everyone to concede to their demands.

[Joe Rogan]

And so yeah, okay, yeah, it's, it said, you know, I'm the victim, so therefore I deserve.

[Mike Baker]

Therefore we're gonna throw society into a wood chipper.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I agree with you. I, I want, yeah, again, I, I, I'm busy enough that I don't have to spend a lot of time worrying about what other people are doing at the same time. I don't need to play along. Right, exactly with your imaginings. And so I think that's where it started to once it started to impact other people. You know, like a kid who loses a race because now suddenly she's racing against a dude.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, exactly. 900 medals lost during this time.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Mike Baker]

Yes. 900 medals. That would have gone to biological females that were won. Won by biological males because of this crazy ideology over the last few years. And so think about how many girls lost out on scholarships. Thinks about how many girls just, like, felt over by the system, where you've got a guy in the locker room with his dick hanging out. You're supposed to pretend that that's a woman. Yeah, it's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

And God forbid you go against the idea. And, you know, a handful of people did, and, you know, spent a lot of time getting pilloried for it.

[Mike Baker]

But Riley Gaines.

[Joe Rogan]

Riley Gaines, yeah, yeah, good example.

[Mike Baker]

You see people attacking her all the time online. It's just wild.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it's dying down a little bit. I think we hit that top, and then I think it's coming back down to. To where people are saying, enough is. Is. Is enough. Again with the idea that, look, you want to do that, you want to pretend that you can, you know, you want to believe that a dude can have a baby, fine, you do that. I don't need to pretend we with you. I don't. I'm not going to infringe on your thinking that that's the case, you know, and, and, and yes, you need some protections in place for people. Of course you do. Right. But at a certain point, I, I kind of lost track. It used to be that you had. You had gay dudes and you had lesbians. Right? That was, that was kind of it. Right. Yeah. Guys. And you had girls that like girls, and you're fine.

[Mike Baker]

You know, we made progress in that regard where, you know, people that used to have to hide the. That they don't have to hide that anymore. It's pretty much accepted by society for the most part.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

And then they're trying the same thing with this, and it's like, no, this is a different thing. And a lot of the gays, they don't want this in their group. They're like, no, this is a different thing. This is, this is not your sexual orientation. You're attracted to men. This is an identity thing. This is a totally different thing that you're dealing with. And then you also have to factor in. In as uncomfortable as this is for people, you have to factor in perverts who all of a sudden can just say, I'm a woman, and wear a dress, and now they can enter into women's spaces and you can't stop them. And that's. That's real, man. That's real. That's not discounting actual trans people or discounting Gay people or lesbians. Not you. But you're opening the door for sexual predators.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

People who are out of their minds. Man. Man.

[Joe Rogan]

And you also had. One of the things I never quite figured out was you also have the, you have the parent who's like, they've got a, a three year old son who says, I'd like to play with the dolls. And then suddenly the mother's the enabler. Right.

[Mike Baker]

They want to get him on hormone blockers.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And, and, and you're thinking, like, how about you just let the kid be a kid? You know, maybe tomorrow they want to play football. Maybe the next day they want to do interpretive dance. Maybe the following day they want to play baseball. Let the kids grow up in a certain way without trying to impose exactly, you know, this, this, this bizarreness on them.

[Mike Baker]

Well, they do it because they want that kid to be whatever.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Whatever it is. Well, they want him to be queer. They wanted to be trans. For them, it makes them look more progressive. And they, they have their kid like a flag they plant in their lawn. And it's gross. But there's a lot of these pathological monsters that happen to be parents. They're just nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, everybody, anybody gets a license to be a parent. It's like boat drivers. The other day we were out on the lake in a boat and close to 4th of July and I realized, really? Anybody? Anybody?

[Mike Baker]

Yeah. You don't even have to have a driver's license.

[Joe Rogan]

No, you don't. You don't have to do a breathalyzer. I mean, you should. And we've got, you know, sheriffs out there trying to stop people from.

[Mike Baker]

People drinking, boating. But yeah, they do it. Yeah, they do it all the time. It freaks me out.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's, it's bizarre because the same people would not like say, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, shotgun on 12 cores and then drive my car. But God damn it, they'll be happy to get behind that boat and take off. And you think. And so we've got, you know, our, our boys have started driving the boat on their own, taking their friends out and that sort of thing. And it's, you know, it's actually more nerve wracking when they head out on the lake than it is when they get in their car and drive somewhere. Right. Because of just like the craziness that goes on. So, yeah, I watched, I watched our, one of our boys, boys head off in the boat. He had like, they were like three dudes and seven girls on there. It was his dream, right? This is. He was heading off to the lake. They were gonna go cliff jumping and some surfing and everything. And I watched him go on. I said, God bless you. But I was inside. I was. I was so goddamn nervous.

[Mike Baker]

Of course.

[Joe Rogan]

So anyway, they did fine.

[Mike Baker]

People think they're invulnerable when they're young, too, which is also a problem. You don't think anything's gonna happen because nothing's happened yet.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Baker]

You haven't had enough, like, severe injuries where you go, oh, this. I'm vulnerable as. This is dangerous. Like, people can die.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

You need to see it.

[Joe Rogan]

They go bridge jumping. You know, they'll climb up to the top of a bridge, jump off, and it's just like, oh, my God.

[Mike Baker]

I know a girl did that and she's. For the rest of her life, her back was ruined.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

She felt funny and hit her ass in the water and it destroyed her spine.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It's like. I mean, you get high up there and it's. It's like. It's like concrete. Yeah, exactly. And then. And if you, if you over rotate or you under rotate or whatever, but yeah, you know, there's a balance. Right. Because with the boys in particular, you don't want to take away that risk taking element. Right. You want them to take risk. Right. But. So there's a fine line of saying, no, don't do that. That's dangerous. Whether they're doing that or they're going to the dirt track or whatever they're doing. And you think, okay, how do you balance that out? Be smart, you know? But I don't want to stop you from taking risks, if that makes sense.

[Mike Baker]

No, it does make sense. Listen, you're talking to someone who's spent the majority of my teenage years fighting, you know, with no health insurance. So, like, I'm not.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm.

[Mike Baker]

I'm talking from a position of not being one of the wisest people.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

But I was never into, like, jumping off of things and I didn't want to ski. I didn't want to do any of that because I knew how vulnerable I was.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Which is crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is crazy because you're. You're. Yeah. You're risking getting clocked every. Every time you go out to fight.

[Mike Baker]

Getting clocked in the head all the time. And they're gym, like constantly getting kicked and punched and.

[Joe Rogan]

God.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah. But I realized, like, hey, I don't want to ski. I could ruin my knees.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I might. I might fracture a rib there. I don't want to do that.

[Mike Baker]

I just wanted to take as few risks outside of this one risky thing as possible. And I think a lot of kids don't have enough, like, controlled risks. So then they start wanting to jump dirt bikes and yeah, you wind up breaking every bone in your body.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Our youngest boy again. Yeah. Happy birthday, Mugsy. But he went over his. His bike wearing a helmet. Very good helmet. Still banged his head. All right. This was just a couple days ago. So I'm on the road and I'm like, okay, keep him up. Don't, you know, make sure he's good. And so anyway, yeah. But again, I say I don't want to. Then when I talk to him, I don't want to say, well, you shouldn't have done that. You know, you want to say, okay, you're good. Do you know what you did wrong? And he's like, yeah, you know, I didn't get the back wheel on the. Yeah, it's like, okay. But anyway, that's. That's parenting.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, it's, you know, you don't want to completely shelter your child, but you don't want them to expose to unnecessary risks. But it's like there's this, like, this is balance that you have to achieve. It's really hard. It's because you don't want a sheltered child that's scared to take any risks at all.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, we're sending that. The oldest one is off to university in a couple of weeks, going down to Ole Miss. And. And yeah, you're right. I mean, that's a, you know, that's a big. It's a big step. Right? So he's going down. He's been down there a couple of times already. He's met some. Some of the folks down there has had a good time, you know, some of the guys taking him out to the bars and, and, you know, and so you, you, at a certain point, you lose control of them. Right. And so all you can do up to a certain age is just hope you've set the compass right.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, you have to set the compass right. At a certain point in time, you have to realize that's an individual human being that you don't have control over anymore. And one of the worst things that parents do is they try to control their kids when they're in their 30s and 40s. Like, they still treat them like they're children. Like you're just going to have a resentful person. Like they don't want you to be the boss of them when they're 30 fucking years old. You know.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Or. Or honestly, 20s. They just, you know, they. I think they still. They want to know that there's a place they can go or that someone they can talk to.

[Mike Baker]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Or advice they can get.

[Mike Baker]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

But yeah, at a certain point, you just. And I think, you know, who knows what. What that point is? I mean, it's. It changes. I think kids seem to be growing up a lot quicker now.

[Mike Baker]

Well, it's because of the Internet. Right. So much information comes their way. And. Yeah, it's. And then we're, you know, we're at the precipice of artificial general super intelligence, which is gonna bust out of its cage if it hasn't already. I mean, there's real good arguments that it's already done it and we're not aware of it yet because it hasn't assumed control of things. It hasn't acted in a way. It's not. It doesn't have a physical form where it can move around yet.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. We're definitely moving in that direction. I think we're probably already there. Which is unaware of it. But I think people at the cutting edge, I think. But yeah, we went from a Rogan show that was done by AI to now you can't swing a dead cat on the Internet without hitting Rogan babies. Right?

[Mike Baker]

Oh, those babies are hilarious. Is the best one.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Theo Vaughn's a great baby.

[Joe Rogan]

I will say any. Anytime. And I don't. I don't spend a lot of time. Time digging through things like that, but anytime I see the baby episodes with you and Theo, I'm like, yeah, I gotta watch this. Son of a. Then I send it to the boys. Yeah. Oh, God. And they. But they don't. There's no authorization. You have no control, right?

[Mike Baker]

No, there's no. It's just the Wild west right now, and it's happening so fast. You know, we had. Who is showing us the Skywalker thing? Was it Joe derosa? Yeah. So my friend Joe derosa was showing us this. They're doing Star wars AI, like, fan created AI scenes of stuff that they wanted to happen.

[Joe Rogan]

Y.

[Mike Baker]

And it looks better than the actual Star Wars.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

And it's young Luke Skywalker. It's Mark Hamill from, like, Star Wars 1. Like that. Like, look at this. Watch this.

[Joe Rogan]

This.

[Mike Baker]

Look how incredible this is. And look at this. That's AI.

[Joe Rogan]

God.

[Mike Baker]

I mean, this is nuts, man. I mean, this is, like, better quality than the original Star wars itself. And it's his voice. It's his face, it's all perfectly synced. It looks incredible. Like, look at this.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's we. My company does some work for the entertainment industry, for the movie. Movie business. And I was out there talking to one of the studios. So they'll remain named Shameless not that long ago. And this is a massive issue for them. Look, they, they're seeing full scripts out there, right. Written by AI for some of their franchise, you know, movies and characters. And they're seeing, you know, they're animators, they're writers. All these people are, you know, obviously worried and they're convinced that they're, you know, about to be made use useless.

[Mike Baker]

And they're right.

[Joe Rogan]

And they're right. Yeah, yeah. Because they're finding just what you're looking at here. They're finding, you know, but there's, there's places where they're dumping full length scripts and, you know, pieces of movies out there. And it's, you know, it's going to upend much like whatever Netflix and the others did with the television market. It's going to upend the whole industry.

[Mike Baker]

It's going to 100%. There's no way around it at this point. If someone can make something like this, the Skywalker Stories thing, I mean, this is just a person doing this with an AI video generator. Again, you just do it through prompts. I mean.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Or you say to self, okay, I want to write a scripted TV series. What am I going to write about? You spend 20 minutes feeding some ideas into whatever. I forget what the. Aside from chat GPT, there's a bunch of them out there. And it will feed back to you in short order the entire show map. Right. It'll give you all the characters, it'll give you a character map, it'll give you pitch lines, it'll give you episode plots. It's remarkable. And it means all those people who work in Hollywood writing or wherever they're based, writing shows or coming up with pilots and they're superfluous to the whole business now.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, it's it. And not just that, it's also music.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

You know, Drake had a song that was a hit. Drake song that came out that wasn't him at all. It was all done by AI and they could just kind of guess what people like. And you just formulate what the big hits were, what's, what's, what's similar, what's common, what are the phrases, what are people, what's catchy, what's.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, yeah, exactly. Give me the last six songs the commonalities that made them successful.

[Mike Baker]

Successful, exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Fine. Give me that. Give me that. Is. Is. Is Drake still beefing with Kendrick Lamar or is that over? I can't keep.

[Mike Baker]

I think he had a. Back off of that.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. All right. Yeah. I don't know. That's the sort of question we need to be asking.

[Mike Baker]

It's.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Different people have different perspectives. Some people think Drake won, some people think Kendrick won. I don't really give a. Quite honestly, I. I'm not a fan of those kind of beefs, but they do make some good songs. Sometimes a beef does, you know, like Ether with Nas. That was a good song. There's. It's just.

[Joe Rogan]

I was about to nod, like I knew what the hell you were talking about. Oh, yeah, yeah. Ether with Nas. Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Baker]

You don't know that.

[Joe Rogan]

Young gravy. A little gravy.

[Mike Baker]

There's a thing that's gonna happen within our lifetime where all creativity is going to be suspect because you're. You're not going to be able to know unless someone's doing something off the cuff, like live in front of you. You're not going to be able to know whether or not something's AI generated anymore. Like they have AI generated stand up comedy. Now, that's. It's not great, but it's okay. You know, where you have a guy on stage, the audience is fake, they're laughing. What he's saying is comedic. The timing is pretty similar to comedy. It's nuts, man. And it's. This is, by the way, impossible three years ago, probably impossible two years ago, ago, probably impossible a year ago, now ubiquitous. It's everywhere. So, like, where does this go and what does five years from now look like? We're just guessing.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, in terms of driving narratives or telling stories or getting people to think a certain way, I mean, think about how simple that is now from a hostile element, right? Like if I'm working Russian propaganda for the fsb, how easy is it now for me to create a copy clip of whatever. Let's take a hot topic, right? And suddenly you've created a clip where Trump is talking about being in the Epstein files, or somebody around Biden's circle is talking about how they covered up his. People will see that. They'll release it, right? People will see it. They're not going to necessarily question whether it's. Because that's not how people work, right? They see shit on the Internet and they go, oh, yeah, I'm going to send it to my buddy. And yeah, you got Some people who might be more cynical than others, but for the most part, people just eat that shit up. And so.

[Mike Baker]

Which is also shows you the incompetence of the government that they released that video from the cell that's got 2 minutes and 53 seconds removed. Because these aren't the best people in the world that are doing that.

[Joe Rogan]

No, no. And that's that. I mean, there's. Yeah, you could argue that the. On the hostile side, on the, whatever you want to call them, hackers or, or people on the cutting edge of doing things and using this technology for nefarious purposes. They, they, you know, I'm not saying the government doesn't have good quality people doing it, but you tend to have, you know, cutting edge folks on the, on the, on the hostile team.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, they're not going to be working for the State Department.

[Joe Rogan]

No, no, they're.

[Mike Baker]

No, they're going to make money otherwise. Yeah, I got to pee real bad. Let's take a little break.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my bad.

[Mike Baker]

And we'll come back. Okay, right back, folks. I didn't see a shit about it. Maybe it's a joke, but did you see that I sent you the Lockheed Martin thing?

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right.

[Mike Baker]

I also sent you the thing that I was looking for earlier, which is I think, I believe he's a senator that's reading off the most ridiculous tweets from the. The CEO. Former CEO of npr.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, God, yeah. Which senator is that? Do you know?

[Mike Baker]

I don't know. Hold on, I can find out. Eric Schmidt. Yes. Missouri. That's who it is.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah. Senator from Missouri.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Watch this. This is, this is fun. This is just a fun one. I thought it'd be appropriate to maybe read some of the craziest tweets from Catherine Marr, who is the CEO. Put my glasses on here. I'm so done with late stage capitalism. America is addicted to white supremacy. I do wish Hillary wouldn't use the language of boy and girl. It's erasing language for non binary people. Lots of jokes about leaving the US and I get it. But as someone with CIS white mobility thinking I'm staying and investing in ridding ourselves of the specter of tyranny. Never underestimate the ability of white people to center ourselves. White silence is complicity. I'm white, so my hair doesn't automatically carry with it the freight of my race worth and everyone else's encoded assumptions. I'm grateful those who have pointed out my phrasing could be understood as trans and race.

[Joe Rogan]

Here.

[Mike Baker]

Horses inspire all Horses inspire all and foster a sense of identity. More kids should have access to these incredible animals. But most horse spaces are white spaces. Horse spaces are white spaces. It keeps going.

[Joe Rogan]

I love the music. The music is good. They. Whoever came up with that soundtrack is good. God. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

So the. The thing that I sent you, the Lockheed Martin thing is people are claiming it's again, a lot of horseshit who knows that Lockheed Martin created that Tic Tac and that there's been three different versions of it. I sent you that. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Who are the people claiming?

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, so the. The idea is. This is what I wanted to ask you about. So this is a congressman who says this Congressman Eric Burleson son dropped the bombshell evidence that Lockheed Martin has developed three generations of Tic Tac UFO technology. Is that real though? Did he say that or is this just a tweet? Let's quote is right there. I had two people come to me. I understand that, but did he actually say that or is that just a quote on Twitter? I believe he said that. Okay, people say it too. Oh, okay. So he says I've had two people come to me that say that the Tic Tac is Lockheed Martin creation. The latest person come came to me, says he has video of the first, second and third iteration of the Tic Tac Burleson revealed. This isn't speculation. This is a congressman with direct access to classified information. The implications are staggering. Lockheed Martin allegedly discovered a revolutionary new propulsion system decade that and has been secretly developing it for decades. According to Burleson source, they used it in the first iteration which was the Tic Tac. They have an intermediary one that they are. They are more advanced with. And then now they're putting it inside what looks like conventional so that it's not obvious.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, what do you think about. Yeah, I'm gonna have to call bullshit on all that. Look, there's some. It's interesting. If you scroll back down, there's an interesting. You know, when you start to. There you go dissecting this. I had two people come to me that say the Tic Tacs of Lockheed Martin creation. Now he doesn't say who those two people are.

[Mike Baker]

I've had two people come to me that said they had sex with Bigfoot.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, well, but you've got. Then it says this isn't speculation. This is a congressman with direct access to classified information, which is the implication that while the people that came to him with this have access to classified information which is un. There's no connection there so they're taking a data point and another data point and they're drawing a line between the two of them, right? And saying, yes, he's getting this from classifying. Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, and also the next part has been secretly developing it for decades. I'm here to. To tell you that if Lockheed Martin was developing something for decades, a new form of propulsion, maybe I'm just a cynical son of a bitch, but I don't think they'd be keeping it secret for all this time. I don't think it would have been able to be kept secret because somebody would have opened their yap or the Chinese would have gotten their hands on it in their economic and intel espionage efforts. So. So I don't know. This strikes me as. And then I've got video of it. Okay, well, how about you show us the goddamn video? It's always the same thing.

[Mike Baker]

It's always the same thing. It's always like, I've seen video. Well, fucking show me, bitch.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Baker]

And then here's the problem. The more time they wait, the more it's Luke Skywalker shit. Like you're gonna show me something. How the hell do I know what's real anymore? We're six months away from never knowing.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, Right. That is exactly right. And that's a problem. And there are. Look, I think we've talked about this before. There are companies out there, private companies, that are working, trying to figure out how do you get ahead of the curve of deep fakes, right, And AI generated material. And it is really difficult, right? It is. It's. And it's. It's lagging that. That. That defensive capabilities lagging behind. Right. The offensive potential for AI generated material. So, you know, again, I agree with. Someone's going to show this and. Or it's going to be grainy, blurry, and going like some. See, see, there it is. Right.

[Mike Baker]

I had a guy recently come to me with a bunch of videos that he needed me to look at, and every one of them was blurry. And I'm like, I'm not interested in this.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Baker]

This doesn't mean anything to me.

[Joe Rogan]

Every time, you know, you got another hearing up on Capitol Hill, it's always the same. I, you know, I can't talk about it. I've seen this shit, but it's in a skiff. And I can't, you know, this very sensitive and, you know, kind of goes back to, you know, people getting in front of the camera and saying, I've seen evidence, but I Can't tell you about it. You're just gonna have to trust me. So. So I don't know. I'm not a buyer necessarily. If the Congressman wants to make a point of this, then he needs to be more clear on this. Right, right.

[Mike Baker]

And when people say things like that and then nothing comes of it, it makes you more and more inclined to believe it's all bullshit.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Whereas that's where I am. So I'm like, I think the possibility of alien life. Of course. Yeah, of course. There's so many planets, so many stars, and the idea that we're alone seems crazy. That seems more unlikely, but I don't know what's real. When people describe things and talk about things and things are moving underwater at 500 knots. Okay, show me. Yeah, show me. Like, I can't anymore. I can't respond. I can't get excited.

[Joe Rogan]

No, I agree. You know, and sure, yeah, everybody's chasing. Just like they're chasing, you know, a better battery, everybody's chasing a new form of propulsion. Right. I mean, that's a leading part of what governments are spending their money on, if they have the resources to do it. So, yeah, there's a national security issue there. And you would think that the Congressman then would say, okay, maybe if you're telling me this, I'm not gonna go out in public and say it, right? Maybe, maybe if we're talking about this, maybe I shouldn't be talking about what Lockheed Martin is doing and obviously working hard, if it's correct, to keep it secret because that's a national security issue. So what the hell is he doing here? I don't know, it just, it all sounds, you know, like, you know, it's sack of.

[Mike Baker]

But it's also like, the problem is a lot of these politicians, it's kind of a form of entertainment in a lot of a way because they're trying to get attention. It's like, they're almost like reality stars, right? They're trying to do something outrageous to get attention and that'll help them get elected. It'll get the constituents on their side and they're. I'm going to be the guy that releases all this information. Oh, let's vote for Bob.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm the UFO congressman.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, but it's like you, you're not producing anything. Show me, tell me or shut the fuck up.

[Joe Rogan]

Shut the fuck up. Yeah, I agree. And it does. I, you know, I'm approached maybe once a month about doing a new series, you know, focused on UFOs and my point is always the same, which is like, what are we going to talk about?

[Mike Baker]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

What are you going to show that's going to be something new that maybe people learn something about?

[Mike Baker]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And, and, and it's all, it's, it's always the same. I'm. Look, I'm not saying again, I agree with it. There's definitely stuff out there, right. We've explored, you know, like a drop of water in a glass of the universe. Right. So there's stuff out there. I've just. I approach it all from a skeptical point of view, so.

[Mike Baker]

Well, I think you have to, because there's also, unfortunately, a market in talking about these things. And there's a lot of grifters out there that have made a career out of telling you they know I have the information, it's been brought to me and I'm going to release it. And it's like Lucy and Charlie Brown with that goddamn football. Charlie never gets to kick that football. Like, this is the time. This is it.

[Joe Rogan]

He never has, has.

[Mike Baker]

He never has.

[Joe Rogan]

Never has.

[Mike Baker]

Every time he goes to kick that football, that just pulls it away from him and he goes flying up in the air.

[Joe Rogan]

Damn it. Yeah, yeah. Maybe he needed to identify as trans, then she'd give him a break. I don't know where I came up with that one. I'm gonna get lambasted for that.

[Mike Baker]

Come for you.

[Joe Rogan]

They're gonna come for me.

[Mike Baker]

You reached on that one?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I did it'.

[Mike Baker]

I want there to be some information that's real. And I think Commander David Fravor's depictions and his descriptions of what happened. And there's other fighter pilots that were involved. They have video evidence that's compelling. What is that? What does it mean? What is it doing? How is something able to go from 50,000ft above sea level to zero so quickly? What is that?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, no, I agree and we've talked about that. That's one of the few things that I think is legit right out there and needs further investigation. Again, you have to pick and choose issues. Is there a reason to have a identification program in the Pentagon? Of course, goddamn there is. It's a national security issue. Figure out what the hell is flying around up there. Right, right.

[Mike Baker]

If it's real.

[Joe Rogan]

If it's real. And did the Chinese come up with a new form of propulsion? Right. And if they did, they undoubtedly stole it from Lockheed Martin. There was just a. Because there's never. You can never do one of these episodes without me kicking the Chinese Communist Party in The ass. But they just finished the sentencing for a, an American Chinese citizen. This is a fascinating people always. Yeah, people always roll their eyes when I talk about Chinese espionage, but I, so I always love to highlight, you know they shouldn't roll their eyes. They shouldn't.

[Mike Baker]

But there's so much you want to talk about evidence. Yeah, there's. So that's not UFOs, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, no. Oh no, it's true. So this guy, Chen Guang Gong is his name, he's like 60 years old, has been sentenced or I think he's awaiting sentencing. He's out, free, believe it or not, he's free on bail right now. And so he went to work in 23. So this stuff has been sealed for quite some time. But he went to work in 23 for some California based company that was contracted with the Pentagon. And he was only there for a month. And during the course of that month that he was there, he downloaded some 3,600 files or so on the technology that this company develops on behalf of the Pentagon related to sensors, sensors that are very sensitive information that used to detect nuclear missile launches, used to detect and track hypersonic and ballistic missiles, used to, for fighter jets, to track incoming missiles, heat seeking missiles. So, so it's very classified material he downloaded during the course of his four weeks there, downloaded all these files onto his personal storage devices and they couldn't find all the hard drives that he had taken with all this information. They've gone missing somehow. So as it turns out, the amazing part about this story is he accepted a joke job during the course of his brief period of time with this California company working on these. Censorship. Except with a competitor, right? So they were going to hire him, but ever since like 2014 when he's been working for US companies, he's apparently nobody gives a shit. Nobody's doing any due diligence, nobody's doing any background investigations. From 2014 on, he's been applying to the Chinese, Chinese Communist Party for what they call talent programs. The Chinese government puts out these proposals, you know, hey, send us, send us, you know, your information. If you're working on, you know, information of interest. They call them talent programs. And they'll provide funding to people who get their applications accepted. Well, of course what the Chinese Communist Party is doing is they're fishing for people with access, right? And then, you know, you'll put in a proposal saying I'm working on the following and I think it could be really interesting. And this guy did that. He took several trips to China he applied for funding for these talent programs from the. Which is essentially the Chinese Communist Party. He stated in emails that he's, you know, he thinks it could be really beneficial to the Chinese military some of the work that he's doing. And so from 2014 on, he's been doing this and people are still hiring the guy. Yeah. It's incredible. So now he's out on an almost $2 million bail. I don't know how they're allowing him to roam around free. Free. But it's just another example, I guess, is what I'm saying, of, you know, what happens out there and why people need to be aware, why companies that are engaged in anything almost because the Chinese party's interested in everything. But you see this and you think, okay, you know, I get it, the guy was stealing information. But then you look and you go, how the fuck did he keep on doing this all these years? How did he, how was he. He'd go from a company and get hired by another company. And they were obviously excited by his expertise, but nobody bothered to dig into it. And that's always how businesses, for the most part, get fucked, is they don't have a proactive mindset. They're not thinking about that when they're hiring somebody. They're not thinking, oh, I'll bet there's a hostile state sponsored entity out there, they'd like to steal our information.

[Mike Baker]

Isn't that also part of the problem with having these administrations that are only in office for four years, so, like, they have all their problems that they have to deal with. They get in, they're basically starting the job anew, and then you've got these companies out there that are hiring Chinese nationals and you don't even know it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, you know, you're not even aware.

[Mike Baker]

There's no way you could pay attention to all of it. And the people that are running the companies, all they want to do is get that company off the ground, start making a lot of money. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Get a government contract. Contract.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Now, you know, theoretically they're supposed to, you know, they're supposed to be going through a variety of security processes about, you know, the dissemination of information, who's got access to it, and all these things. But clearly it doesn't, it's not, it's not working all that well anyway, so that's, that's the thing. And then apparently the news just broke that, that there was a breach. And I think it was Microsoft's SharePoint software that attacked the Department of Energy. And it was Chinese hackers. Again, this is just the past, you know, 12 hours or so. And they were going after, among other organizations and agencies, you know, the group that's responsible for maintaining our nuclear stockpile, which sits inside the Department of Energy. So it's the National Nuclear Security Administration, something like that. So, yeah, it's. I guess I always like to point out that it's a hostile world out there. And going back to your point, you need to, you know, you need to have organizations that are out there trying to, you know, secure, you know, the national security interests of America. And so, yeah, that sounds like. I'm sticking with you.

[Mike Baker]

The idea that you don't is crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Baker]

That's so naive.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's the idea that everybody, if we just would all get along, right, it's all going to work out fine. And, and, you know, the world's really messy. It's ugly. I mean, we, we can see that. And whether you're talking about the Middle east right now, which is a mess, you're looking at the Ukraine, Russia conflict. You know, there's, there's just, there's just a lot of shit that happens out there. And so you do need these organizations now, again, you know, we talked about this. You need them, you need them to be as transparent as they can be and still be operationally efficient. Right? But, yeah, yeah, Middle east, that's a fucked up situation.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, what do we know about how much damage was done by those bunker buster bombs? I saw some video and again, I don't know what's real, but it looked, yeah, insane where they were reviewing the damage and they were kind of climbing into this giant canyon that was created by these bunker busters.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, that's a, it's a really interesting point. And I think, you know, we talked about earlier about how you can get out over your skis. Tulsi Gabbard probably did it, and Pam Bondi about the Epstein files and everything. And I think, I think the Trump administration got out, you know, talking about completely obliterated all three sites, right. Isfahan and Natanz and Fordo and you know what? Wait for the battle damage assessments to come in with credible intelligence, right? Just say, we've done this, we're assessing. How about that? Right? Just keep it like that. Prevent yourself from having to then walk the dog back, right? So they didn't, they came out and said, we've completely obliterated these sites. What appears to be now coming from some of these assessments, at least the early assessments is that they did significant damage to one of the sites, Fordo, and then the other two sites, the other. They did some damage, but that's where it's questionable. And these are coming from Israeli and US Intelligence. And honestly, when it comes to Iran, sometimes we rely very heavily on what the Israelis have because their intel tends to be a little bit better. I mean, it's their existential threat. So they've spent decades developing sources. Right. And so I think. Did we destroy all three? No, absolutely not. We did. Did we degrade their ability to enrich uranium? In the short term, yeah. But does that short term mean, you know, three months, six months? I think that's kind of where they appear to be at. They don't know. There's still questions. And the Israelis think that they actually did manage to keep stockpile of some of the enriched uranium that was buried way down inside of. I think it was this on the site. And so it was successful to a degree. Right, but not to the degree that it was discussed early on and what they're still saying. Right. So I think that's, you know, and that's a realistic approach. You know, I think the military was. Was fairly clear in some of their scenarios that they were drawing up prior to this that, you know, we don't have high confidence that we can completely destroy these sites. Rights. Right. But if they've destroyed and damaged a large number of centrifuges, well, that takes time to replace. Right. And so what I think what's going to happen is the regime, and I think they're already doing it, they're going to disperse all of their efforts. Right. They're not going to stop trying to enrich uranium. They're not going to stop this drive towards a nuclear weapon because now in particular, I think they view it as that's our only leverage going down the road. So. So they're going to disperse it to smaller sites, going to make it more difficult to create a single strike scenario where you take it out for the most part. And I think that's where we're going with it. But look, the Israelis, during the course of their 12 days or so, they degraded the missile capabilities, which was a big part of what they wanted to do, significantly. Now, depending on who you talk to, that significantly is like 40% destruction of launchers and missile stock piles to 50%. That's a lot. But again, they still have the ability to make them and they still will. So we've kind of kicked the can down the road. We've bought some time in terms of, okay, they're not going to get to a breakout point next week. But we haven't really solved the problem. And you don't solve the problem unless the regime goes away way, you know, and then people talk about regime change and then everybody gets all squirrely. So, you know, but you're going to have this same problem. And they've already said they are going to continue to arm their proxies. Right. And there have already been weapons shipments that have been interdicted going to the Houthis, going to Hezbollah. Right. That process of them getting weapons to their proxies is more difficult in part because, you know, Syria's fall fallen. And the Syrian government is, you know, it doesn't like Iran, the new one, the Islamist government that's there, doesn't like Iran. So they're shutting down some of that traditional routes that they use to move weapons back and forth and other resources, but they're gonna keep doing it. They're gonna keep trying. So we've kind of, you know, again, you know, it's putting lipstick on a pig. We've created a better situation in the short term, but it doesn't solve the problem.

[Mike Baker]

Are you shocked that we intervene, intervened, that we bombed their nuclear sites?

[Joe Rogan]

No. By the time we gotten a few days into what the Israelis were doing, it looked like there was really very little option. We were going to have to go in and do that because the Israelis did not have the ability to do that. Right. They. They were. There are operations, again, like people can argue about. They should have. Should have done it. But from an operational perspective, it was pretty damn impressive. Impressive, right. Taking out some of the military leadership, taking out some of those nuclear program managers, directors, scientists, was really impressive.

[Mike Baker]

And it shows. It was so impressive was when they tricked him with a fake phone call. Everybody get together in the bunker.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Mike Baker]

And they blew the bunker up.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I mean, this, it shows the depth of their intel capabilities because, again, they've been doing this for years because it's an existential goddamn threat. And so that's their target. Right. We've got, as a. In the U.S. you know, you know, our intel operations are focused on a lot of different things. Right, right. For the Israelis, for the most part, it's Iran, you know. Yes. It's, you know, subsets are Hezbollah, Houthis and Hamas and all that. But those are, you know, those things wouldn't exist without Iranian support and backing. So their focus over the years has been how do we develop sources, how do we create access, you know, to is. So, you know, and they. So when the time comes, they pull out their playbook and they open it up and go, let's do this. And they just push the button. Right. And they're able to accomplish these things. So. But it does show their capabilities. They didn't have the munitions, so they don't have these bunker busters to penetrate and get down, you know, to Natanz or wherever. So it wasn't a surprise that we did it again. I just think we should be. And I suspect the Pentagon, you know, felt like we should have been more circumspect in how we described the success of it. Now, the foreign minister from Iran's come out the past couple of days, right. And he said, oh, you, you know, serious damage. We've had to stop all uranium enrichment people going, look, you know, and even the White House has said, well, see, you know, we, you know, significantly damaged all their enrichment capabilities. Okay. If you believe what the goddamn Iranian foreign minister says. Right. But he's a spokesman for the mullahs and for irgc. Why would you. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

Why would they be honest about the losses they've taken?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. So he's pushing a message. Right, Right. And so, you know, who knows? But I think there's been damage, but not to the degree that we, you know, they would like to have seen.

[Mike Baker]

But a lot of people didn't understand. Like, why at this point did we do that? Because one of the narratives was that they had the capability of enriching uranium to 90% where they could, but they. They didn't plan on doing it. They only wanted to have it so that they could use it as leverage.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, there is no. Yeah, there's no civilian purpose for having, you know, 60% enriched uranium. So, yes, maybe they thought if we. If we get a stockpile of it, then we're very close because it's an easy lift getting from. Well, relatively speaking, getting from 60 to 90% for weapons grade. So, yes, maybe their thought was only we just use it as leverage and we're not actually going to pursue a weapon. But I don't know that you want to, you know. You know, you want to make strategic decisions based on the hope that that's the case. Right, Right. I think everything else they'd shown in the past, their obfuscation, their hiding of their program, backing off of past agreements, none of that showed that they were earnest negotiators or that they were honest brokers in what that weapons program was like. So I think, you know, there was. There sounds like, there was significant intelligence that came into the Israeli services that said they're fast tracking this whole effort. And that may have been in part because of the damage done to their proxies. Right. So they may have looked and seen. Look, Hezbollah's leadership was torn apart apart. Right. Their stockpiles were incredibly degraded. Same thing with the others. And so maybe that was the motivation, perhaps I'm speculating, for the Iranian regime to say, okay, let's get this done, you know, let's push. If the Israelis picked up on that, then that would, you know, be sufficient justification to say, we got to act now.

[Mike Baker]

But the thing is, it's like we had to get dragged into it. Yeah, yeah, that's where it gets fucked up. Because, like, one of the things that people voted for, for, with this new administration was no more wars. No more useless wars. And then six months in, we're bombing Iran.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, no, I. Look, I'm. I'm not here to argue whether, you know, I know there's a lot of people that say we should not be doing any of this. Right? We shouldn't be. You know, we shouldn't have been in Iraq. We shouldn't have been in Afghanistan. We shouldn't, you know, gone to Vietnam. We shouldn't. Okay, fine. You know. You know, there's a lot of people that. That argue that we should just sit in a bubble because the world will have happen, and it won't impact us. Right. Some of the shit that happens outside the US Borders will come back in a massively serious way and bite us in the ass. So could a conflagration out in the Middle east, if we don't take any part in it, could it impact US national security? Is this. Yeah, it could, but it's a call. I get it. People are saying, draw the curtains, and we shouldn't be at war and we shouldn't be doing any of this, and we shouldn't support Israel. Israel. And what are we doing? You know, I understand the mindset. I just don't agree with it. But, you know, I think so. I think the limited participation in terms of providing the necessary munitions to attack those sites, again, wasn't a surprise. Don't disagree with the decision. You know, I just think, you know, we need to be pragmatic about how much damage we've done and what the potential is for us having to revisit this whole issue. Right.

[Mike Baker]

The thing is, like, people are so skeptical about motivations now. They're so skeptical about public narratives, like why we're doing this. And why we're doing that. And I think one of the things is important, hearing it from a person like yourself that's spent most of your lifetime involved in this, that there are things like, we really shouldn't be meddling in every part of the world, but sometimes we have to metal.

[Joe Rogan]

There are occasions, there are times, again, it would be great if we lived in a world where we could just worry about ourselves. But that's not, you know, maybe 250 years ago it was, right, because it would take the armada a long time to make its way across the ocean. But, you know, shit happens with remarkable speed now. And I just think it's an idealistic idea that you can, you can ignore what's happening and you can just say, we're only focusing on other us. We're not going to, we're not going to get involved in anything that happens out there. I agree. There's a lot of things that we don't need to be involved in. Right. You know, looking back on, looking back on Iraq, looking back on Afghanistan right now, Afghanistan should have been a surgical move, right? We should have gone into Tora Bora, blown the shit out of that, tried to get, you know, bin Laden and then we should have said, look, if you're, if you do this again, meaning if you let your country be a sandbox for the terrorists, we're going to come back here and do this again. And then we should have gotten the hell out and not worried about, well, maybe we can build a stable federal style government in Afghanistan, which has never happened, in which we could have looked at what the Soviets said and said, yeah, that's not going to work. So there's things where we should be learning and we're not very good at, we should be learning and saying, but my point being is you got to leave the door open because there are times when shit could go really seriously wrong. And if the Iranians suddenly, you know, if you're wrong about the hope that, well, I think they're just for peaceful purposes because I'm gonna for some reason believe, you know, counter to their actions up till now, I'm gonna believe the Iranian regime, so it's peaceful purposes. And then they announce that they're a member of the nuclear club. You got a shitstorm going on in the Middle east because it's not like the regional actors, like the Saudis are gonna go, okay, no worries, we're gonna let Iran have the bomb and we're not gonna get it right. Right now you're gonna have multiple Nuclear armed nations sitting in the Middle east.

[Mike Baker]

At odds with each other.

[Joe Rogan]

At odds with each other. And I don't know that that's a really good scenario. Cuz you're inching closer to, to use of a tactical nuclear weapon. Like Putin's already in his moronic puppet. Medvedev keeps rattling the nuclear sable. Maybe we'll use a tactical nuke. Maybe, yeah, you start getting closer to that, and that's a real problem. So I think there are times when you got to step in in an intelligent way, but you gotta be pragmatic about what that means. And so what I'm saying about with Iran is we didn't really solve anything. Right. And nothing will get solved. The Iranian population isn't going to have a better life until there's a change in that regime. I'm not advocating regime change unless it comes from inside Iran. Right. And that's what you would, you'd like to think maybe at some point they rise up and say, fuck it, enough's enough. Right? Yeah. You know, and, but that hasn't happened. And despite people hoping it would happen.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's very, it gives people a lot of anxiety. When you think about all the possibilities of all over the world, all the different things that are happening, whether it's Ukraine and Russia, Iran and Israel, it's like it's constant what's going on in Gaza, it's like everything is, it's, it's just like this constant feed of doom that, you know, if you're paying attention and you kind of have to pay attention a little because it is kind of crazy and it could affect your life.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is, I think, why we're so quick to want to glom onto what's happening with Epstein or what's happening with the intel assessment, because it takes away the focus from there's shit happening in the world. They could create bigger conflict, could drag us into something bigger. Look, the European Union, they're heavily focused on what's going on with Russia because they're sitting on bottom the border. Right. And so, you know, right now, you know, Putin, he has no interest in peace, right. He thinks he's still kind of winning. Right. And there's this hope that, well, we think the Russian economy is about to crumble. It doesn't look that way. I don't think it's going to crumble. So. But I mean, my point being is that the EU looks at it from a different perspective than the US does. Now I think one of the things that Trump's done very well is to get the EU to focus more of their own resources on this. That's a great move. Move. Right. And people should be able to say, yeah, whether they're Democrat or Republican. Yeah, makes sense. Focus more on it. Right. It's in your backyard. And so I think that's a good step from this administration. They should be talking about it more. But does that mean we should back off entirely? Well, again, you know, I hear, I hear from folks all the time and they're like, yeah, why do we give a shit? You know, why should we be spending our resources on Ukraine? Ukraine? And fine, if you're okay with Putin winning, then fine, okay, then I get your point. But at least admit that what you're saying is we shouldn't be supporting Ukraine. And frankly, without US support, Ukraine's not going to win this fight. And whatever that win means, can they even win? Not in terms of like. Like a we've reclaimed all our territory. That's never going to happen. Right.

[Mike Baker]

So it's over.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a negotiated settlement of some sort that's not completely unpalatable for, you know, the Ukrainian people. Right. So what, what they're going to, you know, who knows? Maybe the, you know, the goal is clearly to get everything back, but they're not going to get Crimea back. They're not going to get, you know, some of the eastern region that the Russians have been sitting in now for quite a long time. Right. Even before the invasion. So. So, you know, you've got some negotiated settlement that they can accept. But, you know, if we say we're not going to support them and you can't inflict enough pressure or whatever you want to call it, pain on Putin to get him in a serious way to the negotiating table, then ultimately, yeah, the Russian military will overwhelm them. Right. Because they've got the support of China. China, they've got certainly the support of North Korea. North Korea's about to send another 30,000 troops to the front lines on behalf of Putin. I mean, that's crazy, but we've got North Korean troops by the thousands fighting and dying in Ukraine. And so the US Providing military support that keeps them in the fight long enough to hopefully, with the EU expanding, what they're doing, to hopefully get Putin to think, okay, fuck it. I think I do have to sit down at the table. Great.

[Mike Baker]

Well, this is what's discouraging, is that Trump said, when I get into office, I can fix this in 24 hours.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Messaging problem again. Messaging problem. Yeah, yeah. It's always. Again, I go back to that same thing. There's always a problem with. And again, this is not a. I'm just saying maybe get better, you know, comms people and try to get a little, just I. A tad bit more disciplined. But the idea that you're gonna fix this problem in a day, it's hyperbole, but people buy into it, right? And then you get a mob that are saying, yeah, well, how come we couldn't and what are you doing here? Rather than saying, well, no more wars. Just say the world is an unusual, unstable, chaotic place. There may be occasion when we need to be involved, but I'm gonna try to minimize that. Say something like that. And then you don't have to throw more red meat to the crowd. But. But it's. Yeah. The Ukraine situation and Zelenskyy's got some other problems, right? It's an interesting situation that may. Hopefully it doesn't bore people, but it's important to keep on the radar, is that, you know, Zelenskyy has just signed a bill that kind of gutted the two primary anti corruption organizations in Ukraine. And Ukraine's had years and years of history of being a corrupt nation. And it's always been a roadblock to them getting into the European Union because they're saying, you've got to do something to clean this goddamn place up, right? So Ukraine has had a history of not just with Zelenskyy, but prior to that. And so the parliament, you know, wrote up a bill basically handing over control of these two anti corruption independent organizations that monitor corruption inside the Ukraine government, handed over that control to the Prosecutor General, government control of these organizations. And they put that bill that they wrote, a Zelensky supporter wrote it, put it on Zelenskyy's desk. It was like 48 hours ago. And he had the choice to either sign it or veto it. Again, here's the problem. We think, like, who the fuck was advising him, right? Veto that goddamn thing. But he didn't, and he signed it. And now you got street protests, significant large street protests in Ukraine against this because they considered this. This authoritarian takeover. And they know what their history was like. And so the people are worried about this. So they're out on the streets protesting. Putin's looking at it, going like, it's fantastic, because Putin's been saying that Zelenskyy's an illegitimate leader for some time now. And one of his demands has always been, you know, I'll negotiate. But, you know, Zelenskyy Needs to go and. Because he wants a pro Kremlin leader in there. So you've got all this going on and then Zelenskyy decides he's gonna sign this bill. Now he's got the protest, now he's gonna have to. He's trying to scramble. So now he said, well, we're gonna introduce a new bill to strengthen our anti corruption efforts. So now he's trying to, you know, cauterize that wound. So, you know, that's, it's just, again, it's a, it's a self inflicted wound. He shouldn't have done it. But I'm just, I'm trying to speak to the complexity that's going on out there right now.

[Mike Baker]

Jesus Christ. Mike Baker.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I'm sorry about that. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so that's. We touched very. We haven't even talked about the situation with Hamas and Israel. But I'll leave that for another day because I'm sure if we got together again in another half a year, it's still going on. There's no ceasefire that's going to happen. You know, every time you turn around, the U.S. witkoff or somebody in the U.S. administration or the Saudis or the Egyptians or the Qataris, whoever's handling mediation is saying, yeah, we're very close to a ceasefire. It's just not, it's just not happening. So, you know, it's going to be a mess. We can talk about that some other time. Yeah, yeah, I know. That's a.

[Mike Baker]

Is there any way you can give us some happy news to wrap this up? Is there anything positive? Yeah, well, I know you got a bunch of notes over there.

[Joe Rogan]

I do.

[Mike Baker]

I do anything like.

[Joe Rogan]

Hey, you know what?

[Mike Baker]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

One of my. I know, I know it. None of them. I got, Well, I got one about, well, Ozzy and, and, and Hulk Hogan. I mean, they died. That's not positive.

[Mike Baker]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

God damn.

[Mike Baker]

Lost Hulk Hogan today.

[Joe Rogan]

We did Hulk Hogan. What a. What a guy. And then Ozzy. I mean, what a goddamn career.

[Mike Baker]

But the Ozzy thing was less surprising because he'd been battling Parkinson's and he was very old. But the Hulk Hogan thing was crazy. He was, he was here just how long ago? A year ago. Yeah, in the podcast for a year ago.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, Ozzy did that concert on the 5th of July.

[Mike Baker]

I know, yeah. I mean, in his chair, in for some surgery apparently. And he got an infection.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. I think it was neck or spine surgery or something that he couldn't come back from. But yeah. And then, and it's all in the same week. And then. And then what? What's his name? Then the other guy, this poor guy. It always happens, right? Malcolm. Jamal Warner, the kid from the Cosby Show. He dies and then nobody thinks about it because, like, the day after. After Ozzy dies and then Hulk Hogan.

[Mike Baker]

Guys, you know, they always die in threes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

I say that celebrities die in threes. Why, is that true?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. But poor Malcolm. I mean, he goes and. And his. His death is completely. You know, it's like. It's like if you and I were on a plane and plane went down, it'd be like, we lost a legend today. You know, Joe Rogan is gone, along with 240 others. And I'd be like, the other. You know, it'd be a sad moment.

[Mike Baker]

Malcolm died swimming, right? You get caught in the under.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. It was a swimming incident in Costa Rica.

[Mike Baker]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Got pulled out by a rip tide.

[Mike Baker]

Fuck, man. You got to be able to swim and you got to not with the tides.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's scary. Yeah. We were out in. In the Caymans. My wife and I for. Had gone down there to give a speech at something, so we said, let's go, you know, snorkeling, whatever. And so I went out. I didn't take a pft. I didn't take. Take a, you know, a inflatable device with me. Right. I should have just grabbed the belt, you know.

[Mike Baker]

You just pop it. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Get it. So I was out there swimming, snorkeling around, and. And at some point I was like, I don't feel good. Right. I don't feel right. And then I could tell because I'd had an art issue in the past, right. And I knew exactly what was going to happen. And so I started feeling this, and I did. And I could just kind of feel the energy drain out of me, but I'm out in the middle of the, you know, water, and I kind of look up and there's no. I can see. I can see my wife off in the distance, you know, But I'm like, you know, and so I'm just trying to keep my goddamn head above water. And so I get her attention. Finally, she comes over, and she's a brilliant person, and she's a great athlete, very strong swimmer. And so she's trying to help. But now I'm doing that dude thing where I don't really want the. I don't want to make a fuss, right? So I'm out there. I don't want to take my mask off, and I'm Saying I'll be okay. And I'm gonna, I am, you know, I'm just kind of like barely going. But I'm doing that, the dude thing, right. When you have. As a dude, if you're having a heart attack, you don't want to alert everybody because you're like, I don't want to cause a scene. I don't want to be a problem. I don't want to show that I'm. I'm weak or whatever. Sorry about that. So she literally hauls my ass back to shore. Right. And so it was, it was one of those moments I got back down. I was. But I, you know, I was fine after, after a little bit. But it was just one of those moments where we realized this would be a fucked up way to get go. Right. Just kind of drowning and you know, being at the bottom of that. And they got a fishy out. But so I feel bad for. Yeah. Malcolm Jamal Warner, but. But then also is, you know, his news got blown out by Ozzy and now Hulk.

[Mike Baker]

So it is weird that they always die in threes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what that's all about. It's.

[Mike Baker]

But it's so common.

[Joe Rogan]

Cosmic retribution.

[Mike Baker]

Something's going on, but it's like there's a pattern to the universe where that happens.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. So. But as far as, you know, good news. I'm really working on this one. You're here. Yeah, yeah, I'm here.

[Mike Baker]

We're here. Everybody listening is still alive.

[Joe Rogan]

Going to see Oasis, so that's good news.

[Mike Baker]

Oh, nice.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Going to go see Oasis and yeah, coming to Los Angeles be a big deal.

[Mike Baker]

I'm glad they're back together.

[Joe Rogan]

God damn it. Right? I know. I'm just hoping it's not cuz it's not till September. So the danger is that they feud. They feud, they break up. You, you, you, you, you off. Yeah. So it's. But it's gonna be. Should be a great show. They've been doing a bang up job, but as long as they stick. Come on, guys, stick together. Make it to September and we'll be fine. But other than that, no, this, you know, there's good news happening out there. I'm sure. I just haven't. I haven't seen it. All right, I'm sorry.

[Mike Baker]

Tell everybody your podcast.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah, thank you. It's President's Daily Brief. It's available. We got a YouTube channel at President's Daily Brief.

[Mike Baker]

Doing well. Yeah, I see you on the charts all the time.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, we're up There we're in the. Hovering around the top 10. And I think it speaks to the fact that, you know, for the most part, look, we're just trying to tell people what's happening without telling them how to think about it. Right.

[Mike Baker]

And that's what people want, because there's not a lot of that.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's worked out well in that regard. And occasionally I'll say something, I get a little comment in there, but I try to keep the opinion out of it. But it's. Yeah, it's all the podcast platforms, YouTube channel, and it's. It's. It's gone. Well, it's been a great adventure so far, and it's been growing, which, again, again, for me, that. That is very satisfying in the sense that, you know, nowadays, everything's opinion. Right. Everything goddamn opinion. Right.

[Mike Baker]

Not just opinion, but, again, what you were saying, telling you how to think.

[Joe Rogan]

Telling you how to think about it. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

This is how you have to think.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. So it's. Yeah. President's Daily Brief. Anybody gets a chance, check it out, subscribe, whatever you do. And I appreciate you letting me bang on about that.

[Mike Baker]

I appreciate you telling me about things and explaining things to somebody. So I get. I get lost out there.

[Joe Rogan]

I always feel like I come in here, I bum you out, and. You definitely do. Yeah.

[Mike Baker]

You definitely did today.

[Joe Rogan]

Dude, I'm going to your show tonight. I'm going to love it. Okay, America wants to know this before I go. The White House card, is it happening supposedly?

[Mike Baker]

Yeah, supposedly. July 4th next year. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. July 4th next year.

[Mike Baker]

Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, that's. It's going to be amazing.

[Mike Baker]

It should be wild.

[Joe Rogan]

Is Jones coming back?

[Mike Baker]

I don't know. You know. Know, it's a lot of time between now and then. He's. He's a wild card.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. All right.

[Mike Baker]

I'd like to see it. I'd like to see him.

[Joe Rogan]

Are you kidding me?

[Mike Baker]

Fight for the title on the White House lawn. That'd be pretty wild.

[Joe Rogan]

It's. It's crazy. No. Okay, so I didn't mean to drag that one out, but anyway, thank you, man. All right.

[Mike Baker]

Thank you. Bye, everybody.