Podcast Summary: The Joe Rogan Experience #2357 - Sarko Gergerian

Host: Joe Rogan
Guest: Sarko Gergerian
Release Date: July 30, 2025

Introduction

In episode #2357 of The Joe Rogan Experience, Joe Rogan welcomes Sarko Gergerian, a multifaceted professional balancing a career in law enforcement with his passion for psychedelic-assisted therapy. The conversation delves deep into Sarko's unique journey, the intersections of law enforcement and mental health, the historical and ongoing challenges of drug prohibition, and the transformative potential of psychedelics in modern therapy.

Sarko's Background and Journey

Sarko Gergerian introduces himself as a lieutenant in the Massachusetts law enforcement community with over 15 years of experience. Beyond his role in law enforcement, Sarko is a trained therapist specializing in psychedelic-assisted therapy, marking him as potentially the first in his field to receive a religious exemption to access entheogens in his professional capacity.

Notable Quote:
"I'm also a therapist, a trained psychedelic-assisted therapist. And I believe a lot of people believe I'm the first law enforcement professional who got a religious exemption at their place of work to access entheogens."
— Sarko Gergerian [02:31]

The Challenges in Law Enforcement

Sarko paints a poignant picture of the mental health crisis within law enforcement. Highlighting that the suicide rate among police officers is two to three times higher than that of civilians, he emphasizes the dire need for effective mental health interventions. Sarko points out the stigma and lack of resources, noting that the media often overlooks the internal struggles faced by officers, focusing instead on instances where officers fail.

Notable Quote:
"The suicide rate in cops is two to three times higher than the rate in civilians. More cops are dying by suicide by the barrel of their own guns than attacks on the street."
— Sarko Gergerian [11:02]

Psychedelic Science and Therapy

Sarko recounts his transformative experience at the Psychedelic Science conference in Orlando, where he met Rick Doblin, the founder of the Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies (MAPS). Impressed by the potential of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy to treat PTSD, Sarko pursued training in this emerging field, undergoing one of the first federally sanctioned research protocols to experience MDMA. This personal experience solidified his commitment to integrating psychedelics into therapeutic practices.

Notable Quote:
"I have a mystical experience. I have a mystical experience on film. The segment when I'm... you can't make this up. When I take the blue pill... At the shadow reality. But I experience MDMA on film."
— Sarko Gergerian [07:28]

The War on Drugs and Historical Context

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the historical underpinnings of the War on Drugs, particularly the role of William Randolph Hearst and Harry Anslinger in demonizing cannabis and hemp. Sarko details how economic motivations, such as the threat hemp posed to paper and textile industries, fueled propaganda campaigns that led to the prohibition of hemp and the stigmatization of cannabis-related substances.

Notable Quote:
"William Randolph Hearst... recognized this threat from this new industry. And so to combat that threat, he starts putting out propaganda pieces. And then they coined the term marijuana."
— Sarko Gergerian [33:00]

Safe Supply and Decriminalization

Sarko and Joe explore the concept of "safe supply" and the importance of regulating substance access to mitigate harm. They discuss the failures of outright legalization without proper regulation, citing examples like Oregon's pure decriminalization efforts, which led to unintended consequences such as increased visibility of drug use in public spaces. The conversation advocates for a balanced approach that includes harm reduction strategies, regulated access points, and comprehensive support services.

Notable Quote:
"We have to figure out what's going on. Why are they pooping over there, not in the porta potty over here? Or how about have a location where those people can go that isn't a prison."
— Sarko Gergerian [114:03]

Public Perception and Media Influence

The duo delves into how public perception, shaped by media narratives and social media algorithms, influences drug policy and societal attitudes. Sarko emphasizes the need to shift the dominant narrative from one of fear and stigma to one of understanding and acceptance, highlighting how misinformation and historical propaganda continue to hinder progress in drug policy reform.

Notable Quote:
"The algorithm is based on your interaction. And unfortunately, people tend to lean towards those things."
— Joe Rogan [54:29]

Community Policing and Public Health Integration

Sarko shares his experiences in Winthrop, Massachusetts, where he collaborated with the Public Health Department to create a "Police to Public Health Pipeline." This initiative, known as Clear Community and Law Enforcement Assisted Recovery (CLEAR), aims to connect individuals in crisis with appropriate health services rather than defaulting to incarceration. This model exemplifies a shift towards recovery-oriented community policing, emphasizing support over punishment.

Notable Quote:
"We created what I call the public. The Police to public health pipeline."
— Sarko Gergerian [119:31]

The Future of Psychedelic Therapy and Drug Policies

Looking ahead, Sarko expresses optimism about the evolving landscape of psychedelic research and therapy. He cites advancements by organizations like MAPS and the growing acceptance of psychedelics as legitimate therapeutic tools. However, he remains critical of regulatory delays and the systemic resistance to change, advocating for continued advocacy, education, and policy reform to realize the full potential of psychedelics in healing and personal growth.

Notable Quote:
"I believe that psychedelic-assisted talk therapy is gonna allow talk therapy to live up to its promise as a talking cure."
— Sarko Gergerian [85:34]

Conclusion

The episode concludes with reflections on the profound interconnectedness of human experiences, the importance of empathy, and the need for societal and institutional transformation to support mental health and well-being. Sarko thanks Joe Rogan for the platform, emphasizing the significance of open dialogue in driving change.

Notable Quote:
"This was a really special, special moment for me. I'm not only a colleague of yours, man, I'm a fan and a number of close personal friends... Joe, let me plug this in."
— Sarko Gergerian [123:14]

How to Connect with Sarko Gergerian

For listeners interested in reaching out to Sarko Gergerian, he is based in Winthrop, Massachusetts. You can contact him via his professional email: sarcogergerian@mail.com.

Overall Insights:

• Integration of Psychedelics in Therapy: Sarko's unique position bridging law enforcement and psychedelic therapy underscores the transformative potential of psychedelics in treating PTSD and other mental health challenges within high-stress professions.

• Historical Impact on Modern Policies: Understanding the historical motivations behind drug prohibition reveals the complex interplay between economics, propaganda, and legislation.

• Need for Balanced Drug Policies: Effective drug policy reform requires a nuanced approach that balances harm reduction, regulated access, and comprehensive support systems to address both individual and societal needs.

• Role of Public Perception: Shifting societal attitudes through education and open dialogue is crucial in overcoming entrenched stigmas and facilitating progressive policy changes.

• Community-Oriented Policing: Initiatives like CLEAR demonstrate the positive impact of integrating public health approaches within law enforcement, promoting healing over punishment.

This episode offers a profound exploration of the intersections between law enforcement, mental health, and the transformative potential of psychedelics, advocating for a compassionate and informed approach to drug policy and community well-being.