#2359 - Mike Maxwell

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Joe Rogan Experience – Episode #2359 with Mike Maxwell

Introduction to Mike Maxwell

In Episode #2359 of The Joe Rogan Experience, host Joe Rogan welcomes artist Mike Maxwell, alongside co-host Duncan Trussell. The conversation delves into Mike’s journey as an artist, his significant contributions to the JRE brand, and his personal philosophies on creativity and discipline.

Mike Maxwell’s Artistic Journey and the JRE Logo

Mike Maxwell is renowned for his distinctive artistic style, which seamlessly blends fine art with graphic design. A notable highlight of the episode is the discussion about Mike’s creation of the official JRE logo.

Duncan Trussell ([00:17]): "For anybody who doesn't know, Mike Maxwell is an amazing artist and did not just that painting with Quentin Tarantino in front of it, which is pretty cool, but also the JRE logo."

Mike Maxwell ([00:43]): "I probably put more time and effort into that piece than anything I'd made previously."

The episode explores how Mike's dedication to his craft led to the iconic logo that has become synonymous with the podcast.

The Philosophy of Talent and Hard Work

A recurring theme in the conversation is the balance between innate talent and relentless hard work. Both Joe and Duncan emphasize that success in art and other creative fields is largely a product of perseverance rather than just natural ability.

Brian Cowen ([01:38]): "Like I get the question all the time, like, how the did you do that? You know, and for me, like my whole like art experience has just been like, make the work and whatever the fuck happens afterwards is just all bonus, you know."

Duncan Trussell ([01:51]): "There's no God given talent with art. There's some people have an openness or maybe an ability to see things differently than others, but when it comes to the actual technique and developing that fine hand eye coordination and the ability to draw exact or paint exactly what you're looking for, that's work. That's work."

The Creative Process in Art and Writing

Mike shares his experiences on how creativity often feels like a collaborative process between his conscious efforts and his subconscious mind. This mirrors the experiences of many artists and authors who feel their work "writes itself" after a period of diligent preparation.

Brian Cowen ([02:15]): "Sometimes I just let the work do what it needs to do. Sometimes it's almost like I feel disconnected from it."

Duncan Trussell ([03:04]): "It's so crazy that you say it that way because so many people, including authors in particular, they talk about the exact same kind of process. It's like something just comes to you."

Jiu Jitsu and Martial Arts Philosophy

The dialogue shifts to Mike’s passion for Jiu Jitsu, highlighting how martial arts instills discipline, focus, and a meditative state of mind. They discuss the parallels between the discipline required in art and martial arts, emphasizing that both require a deep commitment to the process over the outcome.

Mike Maxwell ([17:55]): "I'm staying here until it's time to leave. Then I go teach at night, and then I repeat the whole process."

Duncan Trussell ([17:57]): "It’s the process that gets you there."

Community and Networking in Arts and Comedy

Mike contrasts the supportive and collaborative environment of the Austin comedy community with the more competitive and fame-driven atmosphere of Los Angeles. He underscores the importance of being surrounded by like-minded individuals who foster growth and mutual support.

Duncan Trussell ([58:14]): "We have so many people that are interested in it because, you know, it really does work. It really helps you, and not just works like as a martial art, to learn how to defend yourself. It’s a vehicle for understanding yourself better."

The Impact of Fame and Political Corruption

A significant portion of the conversation critiques the current political climate, highlighting issues of corruption and insider trading among high-profile politicians. Mike passionately discusses how the system is rigged, leading to a loss of public trust and the erosion of genuine leadership.

Duncan Trussell ([83:22]): "The front line of corruption, it’s so gross on both sides. On both fucking sides."

Brian Cowen ([84:22]): "And it's so obvious. Like we're at a stage where like we have enough information to see, like how much greed and money just corrupts the system."

The discussion underscores the pervasive nature of corruption in politics, regardless of party affiliation, and the challenges in enacting meaningful reform.

Dog and Pet Discussions

Towards the latter part of the episode, the conversation lightens as Mike and Duncan discuss their pets, particularly dogs. They share anecdotes about training, the unique personalities of different breeds, and the unconditional love that dogs provide. This segment highlights the therapeutic and grounding effects pets can have on individuals.

Duncan Trussell ([126:17]): "Dogs are the best. They're just all love. They just want to be with you."

Brian Cowen ([127:07]): "They love it. They just be with you. They just Okay like the best."

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with reflections on the importance of community, continuous learning, and the pursuit of passion despite external challenges. Mike Maxwell’s insights provide a nuanced look into the life of an artist committed to his craft, while also navigating the complexities of contemporary society.

Mike Maxwell ([150:29]): "You can find all that at mikemaxwart.com and all the social media are at Mike Maxwell Art, my gallery in Santa Monica's BG Gallery. And I got a gallery out in New Orleans, Mortal Machine. You can find my stuff out there."

Overall, Episode #2359 offers a rich blend of artistry, martial arts philosophy, societal critique, and personal anecdotes, making it a compelling listen for fans of Joe Rogan seeking depth and insight into the creative process and beyond.

Transcript

[Joe Rogan]

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

[Mike Maxwell]

The Joe Rogan Experience Train my day.

[Duncan Trussell]

Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. Hey, Mike Maxwell, what's happening? Joe Rogan, my man. Good to see you.

[Brian Cowen]

It's good to be here.

[Duncan Trussell]

For anybody who doesn't know, Mike Maxwell is an amazing artist and did not just that painting with Quentin Tarantino in front of it, which is pretty cool, but also the JRE logo.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

That was like funny.

[Duncan Trussell]

How many years ago was that? Like 15 years ago.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, it has to be. I think you were like on episode 10 maybe.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, and super fucking random too. Like I get the question all the time, like, how the did you do that? You know, and for me, like my whole like art experience has just been like, make the work and whatever the fuck happens afterwards is just all bonus, you know.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, if the work is great, that works. You know, it's like.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You have to be discovered. Someone has to find you. But yeah, ultimately it's about talent.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And you know, hard work too.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yes. Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

I mean, because that talent really doesn't come. Like artists so often are like people like, ah, I like, I wish I could draw. Like, you're so lucky. Like God given talent. I'm like, bitch, I had to fucking. I work every day and have been grinding at this for 25, 26 years.

[Duncan Trussell]

There's no God given talent with art. There's. Some people have an openness or maybe an ability to see things differently than others, but when it comes to the actual technique and developing that fine hand eye coordination and the ability to draw exact or paint exactly what you're looking for, that's work. That's work.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And nothing came easy. Like, I feel like there's some artists and like some creative people who, they have some like inert talent that's in there somewhere. Or it's like we have the right brain chemistry to like get started. But like, I'm still improving. 20, 25, 26 years in, I'm still recognizing improvements.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, I thought that that particular one that we just posted a picture of, that was like one of your best ones. That. That is fucking amazing.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, I probably put more time and effort into that piece than anything I'd made previously.

[Duncan Trussell]

Look at that thing. I mean, that is so sick. That is so sick. And it's like that is this show.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, right.

[Brian Cowen]

And what's funny, like that piece was really like, all the components were just separate drawings that I had been like compiling.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, wow.

[Brian Cowen]

And then it like eventually just Kind of formed itself. Like, sometimes I just let the work do. Do what it needs to do. Sometimes it's almost like I feel disconnected from it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And I have, like, there gets to a point after, like, all the, like, prep work, where it's like the painting starts to paint itself. Like it tells me what it wants.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

It's very strange. Like, there'll be a moment where it's like I could feel something's not right, and then like, I can't consciously think of, okay, well, I need to do A, B and C. But it's kind of like I sit and wait and something tells me. Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's so crazy that you say it that way because so many people, including authors in particular, they talk about the exact same kind of process. It's like something just comes to you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

I've done a little bit of writing and I've recognized that in writing too, where, like, I'm telling a story and then all of a sudden it's like the characters come to life and they start to dictate what's actually gonna happen.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, it writes itself eventually, but you have to do all that beginning work, like the prep work. Like, you have to get the idea going. And then once you're a certain, like, path in, like, it starts to, it starts to communicate with you.

[Duncan Trussell]

I always wondered why that's. Maybe that's why Stephen King wrote his best work when he was coked up and drunk. Because he was out of his head.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

He could get away from his own head.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

I know that sounds ridiculous, especially to sober people that don't. You know what I mean? Like, they don't want to admit that there's, there's, that's, there's a net positive effect of some people with drugs and writing. Hunter S. Thompson is a giant example.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

He's one of my favorite authors and it's a giant example. The guy was an inveterate drug user.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

He was a fucking complete maniac. He was always drunk and he wrote some shit that just to this day cuts to the core of our society. Yeah, like, he was.

[Brian Cowen]

He's one of my all time heroes. Like, I started reading him when I was in high school. They've read almost everything. I think I even like the hey, Rube stuff.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, a lot of people are like, like, he was in his decline. But I remember when that was coming at like, pretty early Internet, right? Like no social media. But those little articles would pop up and I still enjoyed it. Like, I love everything that he made.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, he at the end was gone. He was really gone. And McCumber. So David McCumber who is his editor, who also co wrote a book with my friend Tony Anagone, that's one of the great pool books. It's called Playing off the Rail. It's a really. For anybody who's a fan of pool, the game, it's an amazing book about a guy whose name is Tony Anagone, who is a world class player who went on the road with a journalist and just gambled across the country and did it like a real pool hustler would in the most dangerous, dingiest places playing against high level guys for you know, $10,000 sets and 24 hour joints in New York City. It's an amazing book. Well, McCumber was Hunter's editor too at one point in time. And Macomber got him towards the end. Like there's video of. See if you can find video of Hunter Thompson and David Mucomer having a conversation.

[Brian Cowen]

Because Hunter must have been a nightmare.

[Duncan Trussell]

Nightmare. Never, never got his stuff in on time. He famously would destroy a fax machine because he did. Because he was supposed to fax his pages to Rolling Stone magazine.

[Brian Cowen]

I love that video. When he's in the Rolling Stones office, Jan Winer is like, like, looks like the whole building's gonna burn down. Just panic.

[Duncan Trussell]

I mean imagine controlling a guy like that. You can't. He can't control himself. But out of that sometimes something that no one else is capable of writing comes through.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And it was much less so at the end. It got away from him at the end. Which it's going to do that. Cocaine and alcohol. You're not going to.

[Brian Cowen]

It's unsustainable at that level for that long.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's unsustainable. Everybody I know that has done a lot of coke, they at the end, they're a mess. It's a. Neurological conditions. All sorts of weird happens.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

You can't fry your brain.

[Duncan Trussell]

And these guys were frying.

[Brian Cowen]

Well, it's like. It's the deficiency afterwards. Right. So you've used up all the available dopamine that you have in your brain and it's just like, well, fuck it.

[Duncan Trussell]

I had a friend who was a crack addict who was also friends with my friend who ran a pool hall but also was involved in recovery and was involved in helping people with recovery. He was so he was after the fact that. Well, he was helping people that were getting sober and he wasn't trying to help my friend Johnny. My friend Johnny didn't want to help. He was like, fuck your help. I'm smoking crack. And he was explaining to me the whole dopamine thing, the dopamine and serotonin receptors just get cooked and then you're so depressed that you need it just to feel normal.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. You're always at a below baseline.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[Brian Cowen]

I kind of feel like I fall into that little category a little bit to where it's like I'm just below baseline normal and like a couple, like I don't get super excited for shit, but it'll be like something, something that I'm looking forward to will kind of just get me to baseline, like right around normal. And I sometimes wonder, like I used to do a lot of LSD when I was a teenager and I wonder.

[Duncan Trussell]

Define a lot.

[Brian Cowen]

I mean we had one summer that me and my boys, it was like every two days, you know, twice a week.

[Duncan Trussell]

How old are you?

[Brian Cowen]

Sixteen.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

But also at the, you know, at the same time maybe that has had some power in the sort of creative aspect too.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right.

[Brian Cowen]

Even if it's just like looking at the world differently, which is just so common with psychedelics.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right.

[Brian Cowen]

Just kind of gives you some perspective that's so far removed from our normal day to day reality.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right, right.

[Brian Cowen]

So it's like, you know, I think for me it's like what more am I not seeing? You know, like, like what am I, what am I missing in my normal reality that maybe exists but I, it could be total bullshit. Like I don't know, it might not have done anything for my creativity but.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, I, it seems to have a profound effect on a lot of people that have experiences and just they'll talk about like this one. Like didn't Steve Jobs talk about it? One LSD experience and just kind of shifted the way he thought about things.

[Brian Cowen]

Oh, here it is with those tiny shorts on.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's great. This is the document. The crazy walk around with a gun. Can't even understand them. People screwing me up near the golf course at night. Lumber thieves, plywood thieves.

[Brian Cowen]

One of these things in the stomach.

[Duncan Trussell]

Burn a person around. What going to do.

[Brian Cowen]

I was behind the fence.

[Duncan Trussell]

No, I couldn't go away.

[Brian Cowen]

I, I, I mentioned the little cab.

[Duncan Trussell]

We've got to, got to get seriously busy here.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Duncan Trussell]

He was calling me every conceivable in our name. You dirty sock.

[Joe Rogan]

You dirty stupid bastard.

[Duncan Trussell]

I found a hole in the fence. Inflaming ass. Yeah, well, well we were, we're an hour away from. Well, not to mention the first edition I Don't.

[Brian Cowen]

Look at the computer. It's hard to tell.

[Duncan Trussell]

Look at the computer. I wonder what year this was. 80. This came out in 88, so probably like 87. When did people first start having computers? When did you have your first computer, Jamie? You were. You're younger. I was later than that, though. I had, like, Windows, I think was our first one. What year? Like 95? No, we had whatever Windows was before that. 3.8 or whatever. It was 1. What was.

[Brian Cowen]

Is that what it was when Windows 95 came out?

[Duncan Trussell]

That's a big day. It was a big day. Oh, yeah, I remember. Could do stuff. I got my. I got an Apple computer from Comp USA in 1994.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

I think I was right around, like, 97. Big ass fucking thing, too.

[Duncan Trussell]

But my friend Robbie knew what to buy. My friend Robbie, either he worked in computers or his brother worked in computers. So he took me to CompUSA. I had no idea. I'm like, what is this?

[Brian Cowen]

My mom, she worked in a computer lab at the community college in San Diego, and she was, like, one of the first to start using Apple products. Like, everything was PC in the spa and she knew, like, something was, like, getting ready to pop off. And she was like. Like, she had the first iPhone, like, early. Like those fucking apples that, you know, it looked like a TV from the 80s.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Just weighed 600 pounds. And actually, like, got into graphic design early. And that's kind of how I started doing some. Because I made art my whole life, but started doing some design, like, learning how to actually use the fucking computer.

[Joe Rogan]

And.

[Duncan Trussell]

And now, like, I learned programs were available back then.

[Brian Cowen]

Photoshop and Illustrator were out, but it was like one and two.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow. Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And she was in there and taught me how to do it. And then, like, I still, like, do graphic design, but it's like, it's from, like, I still use the techniques from, like, 1999.

[Duncan Trussell]

Wait. It kind of shows you that there's a lot of, like, untapped comedic talent in the tech industry. Because memes were one of the first forms of new comedy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

That hit the Internet. And it had to be by someone who knew how to work the old school Photoshops.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

So you had to have some technical understanding of the programs. You had a few. It was probably people that were using them already. You know, they were graphic artists and they were like, fuck this guy. Let's make a funny meme.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. Because I mean, before. Before that, you had to do everything by hand. It was a lot of, like, cut and paste and like.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And like different techniques. It was. Everything was by hand.

[Duncan Trussell]

When did memes, like really funny memes first start appearing?

[Brian Cowen]

I had. I feel like it has to be like 2,099, 2,000.

[Duncan Trussell]

The Internet meme. Dawkins concept, 1972. Right. But Internet, that was that book that he had. Right. The selfish gene, wasn't it, in that. That dancing baby was coming up.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, that's that. I feel like that's the earliest.

[Duncan Trussell]

The Dancing baby was the first.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like a TV show. Oh, yeah. A terrible animated dancing baby. What year was that, bro? That's the nightmares. If you're in the woods, you see a dancing baby that looks like that. The Uncanny Valley Dancing baby. Those. That would be so scary. Imagine if you would have to punt it.

[Brian Cowen]

You would have to punt it, bro.

[Duncan Trussell]

You'd have to run. If you kick it, it grabs a hold of you and bites you.

[Joe Rogan]

Like a wolf.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, but what if it runs like 100 miles an hour?

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, you're going to find out. At least you'll find out. Actually, if you run, it's worse because then you're tired and it's probably right there watching. You're just trying to catch your breath.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And you see it's a little bit standing on your chest.

[Duncan Trussell]

No, no, no. It stays just far enough from you that you think you have to run. If it's really trying to scare you, it doesn't want to jump on you. And once it gets really close. For a long time. Yeah, for a long time. So it wears everything out. You want to wear it out. Like, that's how you do it. If you're chasing a person, you don't just run up on them. That just spoils all the fun.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Brian Cowen]

Isn't that like the old school hunters, too? Just like chasing a pack of deer for.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, yeah. That's why human beings can run so long. But that's a different thing. They're overheating them. It's. That's called. It's called persistence hunting.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's why there's so many amazing marathon runners come from that part of the world. Because, like, these guys have a history of literally running animals to their death.

[Brian Cowen]

Right. Who had to figure that out, too? Who's like, Well, I got five miles in me.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, let me just.

[Brian Cowen]

I need 10.

[Duncan Trussell]

Let me just keep running until this deer stops running. Like, how would you ever think that you, a deer, you would eventually catch it? Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Especially if they're so fast.

[Duncan Trussell]

They're so fast. Like, how would you think that one Day that antelope was going to get tired. Like how would you even have that in your head? Yeah, that it couldn't just take a break. It's going to be 300 yards ahead of you like that.

[Brian Cowen]

I love those.

[Duncan Trussell]

Take a break. Catch his breath. They didn't even know that. It's the issue is the animals don't have sweat glands. So they overheat.

[Joe Rogan]

Shit.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, so we have sweat glands.

[Brian Cowen]

And of course they weren't biologists, so they also didn't know that either.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, that's why we're so weird. We're such a weird animal. And that our bodies really can kind of adapt to different climates and they self cool and regulate. Like some animals, if they're outside of their climate range, they're fucked. Yeah, like they're in deep shit.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, like Marshall, over here. Where are you, buddy? Oh, he's right here. He's right beside me. We have to, you know, if we're going to exercise in Texas, we have to do it in the morning.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

Or we have to jump in the pool because, you know, his body's adapted for cold. He's got this crazy wool coat that he wears everywhere he goes. Yeah, it sucks. But for us, man, we can, we sweat. And they figured out, I guess a long time ago that these animals, if you just keep running after them, eventually they just can't do it anymore. And then they lay down and then you fucking stab them.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, that's so fucking wild.

[Duncan Trussell]

But it made insane runners.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

The only way you're going to feed your children is if you run after that deer, bro. You're going to become a fucking runner.

[Brian Cowen]

And now the evolutionary process is like you go to the Olympics.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And they have you like this on the COVID of Wheaties.

[Brian Cowen]

It is, it really is interesting because like that's before I started doing Jiu Jitsu. Like that was what I was doing. I was running like. And. But it just got fucking boring. Yeah, it got boring. And that, that's when I was like, okay, I got to find something else.

[Duncan Trussell]

Because yeah, that's what most people, the problem they have with the gym and Jiu jitsu is the opposite of boring. Jiu jitsu is, it's one of the most rewarding things in life because it's super hard to do. It's really good for your head. Like Jiu Jitsu. People in general, like, you get dickheads in all walks of life and female dickheads do, but for lack of a better word, but you, you get the Nicest people. Like, for the most part, you get people of character.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Because you have to have character to stick it out, to be doing Jiu Jitsu. If you've been doing Jiu Jitsu eight years, I can. 99% sure I can hang out with you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Duncan Trussell]

You're a dude who's got his shit together.

[Brian Cowen]

It's almost like we're like distant family members or something.

[Duncan Trussell]

100%. Yeah, 100%. It's like you recognize, you've been through this thing, you know? I started doing jiu jitsu in 96, so. 96. I was at Carlson Grace. I was 29. 29, yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

See, I start. I started at 30. Yeah, like, around the same.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, around the same time. And. And I started right after. It was kind of like a year or two after I first saw the ufc, you know, it's right around that time.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And so I started at Carlson Gracie's place in. In la. That was right down the street from the Comedy Store. It's real close to the Comedy Store. And that was when Vitor Belfort was. He had just fought John Hess in Hawaii, and he was about to enter the ufc.

[Brian Cowen]

And that. That was that first crew in California. From Brazil, too.

[Duncan Trussell]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Marillo Bustamante. You know, there was a whole ton of these guys that came from Brazil.

[Brian Cowen]

I think Medeiros was there, too.

[Duncan Trussell]

Mario Sperry was there. I got to train with Mario Sperry, dude, when I was a white belt.

[Brian Cowen]

That's why.

[Duncan Trussell]

And he didn't have no idea who the I was, because I wasn't anybody. I wasn't famous at all.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And he was the nicest guy in the world, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, he. He. He explained. Mario Spar explained to us how he got his triangle really good. He would make his girlfriend sit in his guard, and he would just try and, like, she would complain, like, stop, stop. Just let me do this.

[Brian Cowen]

Poor girlfriend.

[Duncan Trussell]

Let me use your body to practice triangles.

[Brian Cowen]

I mean, because that's what it takes.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like.

[Brian Cowen]

It's kind of hard to do it by yourself.

[Duncan Trussell]

I have a dummy, but I don't use it. I have one of them. I used to have a Gracie dummy back home in la.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Every gym has one that just sits in the corner and nobody.

[Duncan Trussell]

You really want to do it with people.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's so just, you know, the difference between the rolling and the drilling. Like, the people that get really good, they. They put the shitty work in.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, the long drilling sessions. That boring ass.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

You have To. I. I have, because I teach now. And, like, what belt do you know? I'm a black belt.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, snap, son. When I met you, what were you?

[Brian Cowen]

I was probably a purple belt.

[Duncan Trussell]

How did we meet? Shit, I don't even remember how we met because it was so long ago.

[Brian Cowen]

Well, it's like. Yeah, like, I get. I get the question.

[Duncan Trussell]

Answer that question.

[Brian Cowen]

That's funny. Well, I. So my sister worked at the Comedy Store in La Jolla as a waitress. She's a nurse now. And you were doing a show at somewhere downtown at the Balboa Theater, probably. Maybe.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And it was sold out, and I just hit her up and was like, hey, do you think you can get me tickets? Cause she knew everybody from the store in La Jolla, and Ari ended up getting a pair of tickets for me, and so I went to the show. Whatever.

[Duncan Trussell]

Did you know Ari already?

[Brian Cowen]

My sister was friends with Ari.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, okay.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, I didn't know anybody yet.

[Joe Rogan]

And.

[Brian Cowen]

Maybe two weeks later, she hits me up, is like, hey, can you do a poster for our marquee? For it was Ari, Tony Hinchcliffe, and it was supposed to be Duncan Trussell, but maybe it was Duncan, but regardless. And from what I remember, you must have seen that poster at some point.

[Duncan Trussell]

That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Brian Cowen]

And then we did the. We did the Atlanta 420 show.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

So that was probably. I feel like I met you before because I popped in on one of those. Those Ice House Chronicles from back in the day.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, those were fun. Look at that one, man. What a great one.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, that was the 420 show. So that was 2012.

[Duncan Trussell]

God damn, time flies.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, and so that ended up becoming the. The graphic for the logo. We had the microphone.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's perfect.

[Brian Cowen]

Duncan with the little. Hit acid on his tongue.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's the perfect logo. I mean, you fucking nailed it. Now it's everywhere. That's gotta be weird.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, it's. It's fucking strange. Almost, like disconnected from it. Yeah, like. Like, of course it's grown. It's like it's its own thing, but every time I see it. Like, I know. Like, I drew that by hand. Like, I have the ink drawings still.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's crazy.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, it's pretty fucking wild.

[Joe Rogan]

I.

[Brian Cowen]

You know, I put stuff out into the world all the time. I have thousands of paintings, thousands of different fucking places. But, I mean, more people see this image than guaranteed all the other ones.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, more people see that image than anything else I've ever done. Yeah, that image is everywhere.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, it's pretty wild. What a fucking weird trip, right? I mean, you. I went to the show on Tuesday and you were doing the, like, Q and A at the end, and somebody had asked you about, like, what your goals are.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And you were like, I don't have any. And I'm kind of in that same routine where, like, what I was saying, like, I do the work, zero expectations, like, what happens will happen, and I'm just along for the ride.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, that's. I think, as long as you put the actual energy into the work, I think at least for me and you, that's the way to do it. I don't have, like, people. There's a lot of people out there with vision boards. I was talking to dude the other day. He's got this vision board. He's got all these goals he wants for his company and goals all he wants for his life and this and that. Like, I get it. That probably works too. That probably works too. But for me, I just only. I feel like I only want to think about the process. I want to put all my energy into thinking about the process because that's.

[Brian Cowen]

The rewarding part for a creator. Right. Like me in the studio by myself, painting. I get that clear mind where it's like, I feel like I fucking meditate six hours a day, you know, just from work. Every day, just from work. Because at some point in the painting process, like, the paintbrush turns into a mantra almost to where, like everything in my mind, just like in jiu jitsu, like, everything shuts off because we're in a hyper focused, like, mode of accomplishing a task.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, Right, right.

[Brian Cowen]

And that's, for me, painting all the reward is that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

It's those moments, though, even when I fucking hate it. Because there's plenty of times where I'm like, this motherfucking painting. Like, I can't get it. Like, I know where I want it to go, but it's like, well, first you're gonna have to take 35 fucking steps before you can get there.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right, right.

[Brian Cowen]

And my, you know, like, I know that, like, the finishing a painting is a little bit like a drug. I don't know if you ever experienced this maybe like after getting off stage or something, but it's like there's a little, like, dopamine reward when it's done. When it's complete and done, you're like.

[Duncan Trussell]

Ah, look at that.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, it's like catching your breath.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

I used to feel like, you don't know it.

[Duncan Trussell]

I used to feel like that with Drawings.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

But on a smaller scale, obviously. I think it's the same thing with martial arts, because, you know, people always talk about martial arts as being a moving meditation.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, I think. I think. And if you thought about martial arts, like, if you. If you were a white belt and you thought about all the time that it's going to take before you become a black belt, you're like, oh, my God. Yeah, I can't do this. But if you just think about the process, the process will get you there.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You just have to just only be thinking about this idea, this process of improvement, of dialing it in, that there's. And people oftentimes refer to martial arts as a moving meditation, because to do it right, you're kind of out of your own way. Yeah. Did you ever do any. Did you do much striking?

[Brian Cowen]

I did a year of Muay Thai. I got punched in the face a lot. I actually. I found my brain not functioning quite the same way.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh. And I even hit.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And I even found myself, like, getting frustrated, which was stupid, like, to be fair.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Well, like in. In the process of. Of Muay Thai.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, okay.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, I had a coach, and this was forever ago, who was kind of a prick, and just. He had eight morning students who knew dick, and we were terrible, you know. Oh.

[Duncan Trussell]

And he wanted to be coaching pros. Right.

[Brian Cowen]

That's what it seemed like, like, very, very distant in, like. Like phoning it in. And I recognize myself kind of getting frustrated with it. But when I was in jiu jitsu class, if somebody caught me in something, I found myself laughing. Interesting to where I was like, wow. Like, I never got frustrated. I never got, like, down on myself because, I mean, my whole first year, I don't think I tapped a single person my first year. And I was in a tough gym, you know, it was the Nogara gym. And so, like, the whole first year of them being open, it was just like, the MMA guys were in there. It was like pros training for, you know, a year or six months, and then they opened it up to the public, which is. And it was just. It was just ass whoopings every day. I remember my first class like, it was yesterday. Like, I got. When we got to sparring, it was like, I got, like. I just looked at another white belt and was like, okay, let's try. And neither of us knew what the fuck we were doing. And the coach was like, hey. And, like, grabbed his purple belt, who's.

[Joe Rogan]

Now.

[Brian Cowen]

He owns Del Mar Jiu Jitsu in San Diego, he. He came over. He has a purple belt. Just this, like, vanilla gorilla. And hip tossed me.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, no.

[Brian Cowen]

And I was like, what the was that? Like, I had no idea what had happened. I was on my back, you know, trying to catch my breath. Like, holy shit, what was that? And at that moment, like, I knew. I. Like, I thought I was tough. Like, I thought I had a little bit of toughness in me, and I was, like, just a complete humbling experience, but also, like, encouraging. Like, I feel like it was that singular hip toss, like, led me to be a black belt.

[Duncan Trussell]

Interesting. So because it was so overwhelming, you were like, I need to learn that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And I was at kind of like a weird phase. So that was probably, like, around. Around 2008, when seemed to be. It was like a little moment of, like, everything's going to. And, like, I had this weird feeling.

[Duncan Trussell]

This is like the financial crisis.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

This was when the banks.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And everybody's money was weird and mortgage class thing. And I felt like if hits the fan, like, maybe I should know how to do something, which is such a weird.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's a crazy thought.

[Brian Cowen]

It's. It's fairly abstract. Like, to me, it wasn't like I was, like, super concerned or, like, really serious about, but I had the thought of, like, if I need to defend myself or if I need. And that's why I was running, too. It's like, if I need to fucking chase down a deer in. You know, until it overheats.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[Brian Cowen]

And it ended up just being a little bit of a motivation. And then I just found the joy in it. I always said if I ever opened a jiu jitsu gym, I would call it fun Jiu Jitsu. Nobody steal that. Just because, I mean, I was talking to Zach, your security guard at the comedy club. And like, for me, I don't get into street fights. I haven't been in a street fight since I was a teenager.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, me too.

[Brian Cowen]

You know, like, I've broken up fights more often than I've got into them.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, one thing I do find that's really disconcerting, when fights break out, I don't get nervous.

[Brian Cowen]

That's how beautiful is that. I've had that. Because I remember when fights would break out, your anxiety shoots up your heart rate.

[Duncan Trussell]

I get weird if, like, someone close to me is with me and I'm worried about their danger. Yeah. But the fact that two people are fighting, I'm so used to it, it's weird.

[Brian Cowen]

I stopped a bar fight a Couple years ago where a group of guys attacked this dude. One of them got a hold of him and he sunk in a guillotine. The guy got taken down right away, a deep guillotine, like all the way up over the shoulder, you know, and.

[Duncan Trussell]

Was not letting him tap. Was not letting him out.

[Brian Cowen]

No, no, no, no. And I saw it all sort of kind of unfolding, and I ran up there and I just whispered in his ear, if you do Jiu Jitsu, you should probably let go right now. That calm. He, like, looked at me, let go. Dude was out cold. I actually grabbed the guy who was out cold and picked his feet up.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's a great way to handle it, the way you talk to him.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And he immediately looked at me like, okay, yeah, I hear what you're saying.

[Duncan Trussell]

This could be the difference between nothing happens to you, you're just defending yourself, and you're going to jail for a long time because this guy's dead.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Especially if the guy's out, you're still holding on to it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Ooh. Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And it was quick. It was tight. He. He might not have known he was.

[Duncan Trussell]

Out, but, I mean, he was probably so jumped up with adrenaline.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

He, like, he had his girlfriend with him and.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. Dude, street fights are stupid.

[Brian Cowen]

So dumb.

[Duncan Trussell]

And if I see them, I just get the away. But what. Just weird that I'm. I. I've seen so many people beat people up.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

I have seen, like, firsthand. There's probably a tiny percentage of people on earth that have seen more fist fights in person than me.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. I can't imagine. Especially at that close range, at close.

[Duncan Trussell]

Range with world class fighters, because it's a.

[Brian Cowen]

When you're in at a UFC event, like, those fights feel so much more intense and so much more like, dude, you got to visceral when you're there.

[Duncan Trussell]

You got to come with me to the Apex. The Apex is the place to see fights.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

The Apex center is the UFC's private little auditorium. It's tiny. It only seats, like a hundred people.

[Brian Cowen]

Is that where they were doing the fights during COVID Yeah, yeah, dude, I.

[Duncan Trussell]

Saw Francis Ngannou versus Stipe Miocic in a small cage with no audience.

[Brian Cowen]

That's wild. Those sounds are sounds you don't hear, bro.

[Duncan Trussell]

It was wild.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

It was so different because Francis's punches and kicks without all the cheering.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

To hear that sound, it's a different.

[Duncan Trussell]

Thing, man, because you're. You're experiencing what that fighter is experiencing. Not. You're not getting the pain, but the thud, the force that you feel it different.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You feel, like through the arena, you feel that small little broom. You feel it.

[Brian Cowen]

And concussion in the air when he.

[Duncan Trussell]

Collapsed, when he hit him with the left hook and dropped him and then punched him when he was down, I was like, oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

God.

[Duncan Trussell]

It was so different than seeing it in an arena. It was so intimate.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's like I always say that it's like the difference between going to see an acoustic concert and going to see a concert in a gigantic arena.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, you go see someone in a club doing an acoustic set. Like Gary Clark Jr. Did an acoustic set. It's different. Like, wow, this is intimate.

[Brian Cowen]

That's cool. That's why I always like the prelim fights for the few fights that I've gone to.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Brian Cowen]

And it's interesting, I noticed myself getting nervous for the fighter walking, especially that first fight.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like, first preliminary, like 10 people in the room. Yeah. It's weird.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

That. That walkout moment is so peculiar.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yes. Like, peculiar.

[Brian Cowen]

And I don't know if everybody else feels it, but it's like I can almost feel their anxiety.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh.

[Brian Cowen]

As they're walking out.

[Duncan Trussell]

And some guys, you don't feel that at all. You just feel this confidence, this crazy confidence. That's fascinating, too. The guys can get so good and work themselves into a headspace where they. They like Ilya Toria, he walks in there like he's already won. He celebrates. The night before, he has a celebration dinner with all his friends and family. The night before the fight, he walks out. There's not a doubt in the world. No doubt.

[Brian Cowen]

I wonder how much of that comes from everything that he's done so far. Like just a supreme confidence.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, it's definitely from that. But I.

[Brian Cowen]

But maybe it was there before.

[Duncan Trussell]

I think he's touched by the universe. I think there's. There's certain people that have a talent, obviously hard work, obviously discipline, obviously intelligence, obviously great trainers. All those things are.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You can't get past the technique that he has. But there's an understanding of what to do and how to do it and when to do it, and an ability that's above and beyond.

[Brian Cowen]

And I see this all the time, where it's like two people who seem like they would be equal in skills or even just in knowledge. Right. But one of them can completely outshine the other.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, you learn early on in martial arts that it's. It's all hard work, but there's certain dudes that have physical attributes that are just freakish. Yeah, they're freakish. Like, the first thing that I ever. My first introduction to real, like, high level martial arts was this guy named John Lee. And John Lee was the national light heavyweight champion in taekwondo at the time, and he was training for the World Cup. And I was leaving with my friend Jimmy. We were coming home from a baseball game. We were coming home from Fenway park, and we just passed by this Taekwondo school, and I was like, let's go up. We were waiting for the tee. The tee takes forever. It's a train. It's always packed. Everybody's leaving the baseball game at the same time. It's gonna be a mob scene. Let it die down for a little bit. Let's go check out this Taekwondo class. And as we're walking up the stairs, I hear, like this crazy noise, like a thump and then a rattle of chains. That's what I was hearing. And it was this dude practicing a spinning back kick on the bag in his prime. Big long dude who had ferocious power. He was just bending this bag in half.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And I was 14, and I was like, holy. I think I was 15. It was like, it was the summer of my 15th birthday, but I changed my life. I was like, I need to learn how to do that. Like, that's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

But then after a while I realized, like, not everybody can do that. Like, there's guys that are, like, high level guys that can't do it. That guy could do that. Guy had some weird gift. He had a weird power gift.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Even sometimes just biology, like, how your body is shaped.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's 100% biology when it comes to power. There's like, if you have tiny hands and sloped shoulders and girl hips, good luck. You're not gonna. You're. There's no way gonna generate John Lee type power.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And that's like, I can't punch to save my life, but I got these long, skinny ass arms, like, I'll darce the fuck out of you.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, they're perfect. Jiu jitsu.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Long arms and thin arms are perfect for Jiu jitsu because it's all leverage, man. I think one of the best things, most inspirational things that can happen to you if you can handle it in Jiu jitsu, is getting mauled by a smaller person.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

A person, like, quite a bit 30 pounds lighter than you and just runs through you and you're like, wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like, okay. It's not about strength at all. It's about skill, knowledge, technique, timing. Timing.

[Brian Cowen]

Timing is Everything.

[Duncan Trussell]

Timing's a lot, but you have to know what to do with the timing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And you gotta be honest.

[Duncan Trussell]

You have to have technique. You have to have technique. Your technique has to be sure. Because there's some guys, like, some guys, they'll wrap something up and it's like nine out of ten. Like, you're going to squeeze it, maybe get the tap, but there's other guys, they lock something and you're like, oh, there's no way out of this.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, this is death.

[Duncan Trussell]

This is death.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. This is 10 out of 10.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like an Eddie Bravo triangle. You get locked in. Any problems trying, like, I'm not getting out of this. This is tap time.

[Brian Cowen]

That's. I've been wondering. So I play lockdown a lot, and maybe getting too technical is probably fucking boring, but that's okay. I have an extra muscle in my calf. It's this. I have the same muscle in my left calf, but my right one is twice the size. Just a little strand from making that little hook on the shin.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, you're just from playing lockdown. Wow. You know, you could exercise that. You know, there's a thing called a tib bar. Do you know what that is? Uh, this would be really good for jiu jitsu, especially for people who really love butterfly guard. And it's just good for overall knee stability. I learned about it through the knees over toes guy on Instagram. Have you ever done any history?

[Brian Cowen]

No, but I need to start looking into it.

[Duncan Trussell]

Look into it yesterday. Really good for knee health and strengthening the knees. A lot of amazing exercises. But one of the things that he has that he recommends is a tib bar. And so what it is, is it's like a thing that attaches to your shoe, and you lift weights by lifting your foot upward, by lifting your toes towards your knee, which is an exercise you very rarely get. But it's really good. Yeah, that's really good. And for butterfly guard, that would be it, man. Because you could get that motherfucker strong as shit with not just doing butterfly guard, but lifting. Lifting for that. You would, for sure. I always thought, like, leg extensions, too, that would help in a big way. Right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, for the same kind of muscles, the forcing, like the extending the leg.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. Because that's a. It feels awkward at first to try to elevate from that position.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, right.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, especially if your knees are. I'm. I'm kind of. I'm 16 years in now, and I'm like, I'm avoiding the. The heavyweight Roles.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Brian Cowen]

Like the super tough. Like, I just have to, like, protect. Protect myself. And still, like, I never want to stop either. So, like, I want to be able to get in there and. And around as much as possible.

[Duncan Trussell]

But yeah, you got to pick who you roll with for sure. That's important, especially as you get older. Are you doing TRT or anything like that?

[Brian Cowen]

No, I wish.

[Duncan Trussell]

Why don't you do it? Oh, you son of a. What does that mean? What does that mean? Mike Paxwell. What does that mean?

[Brian Cowen]

I. I just haven't had a chance, I suppose.

[Duncan Trussell]

While you're in town, I'm gonna hook you up with Wastewell. How many more days are you here?

[Brian Cowen]

I leave tonight.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, yeah? What time tonight?

[Joe Rogan]

Nine.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, yeah, we could do that. We can make it happen. We'll make it happen. I'll make a call as soon as we get out of here and I'll have you go over there. Right. Right before you take off.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. Because has gone. Gone pretty south.

[Duncan Trussell]

You should get. At the very least, if you don't do anything, you should get blood work. Get blood work. Find out where your hormone levels are at.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

How is your diet?

[Brian Cowen]

It's not bad. Like, I. I eat pretty good. I actually cut out sugar this year.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like, big impact.

[Brian Cowen]

Humongous.

[Duncan Trussell]

Isn't it crazy?

[Brian Cowen]

Humongous.

[Duncan Trussell]

You're poisoning yourself.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And it's just like. Like what I was saying, like, being that, like, slightly lower than baseline, like, sugar gives you that little dopamine, like, fix that is like, okay, I feel right now. And so, like, I had a little soda habit, which. I mean, there could be fucking worse things, but a lot worse. But maybe not, though, you know, like, sugar is pretty bad for you.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, I lost.

[Brian Cowen]

I lost 15 pounds. Like.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like that.

[Brian Cowen]

Like that.

[Duncan Trussell]

Crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

It's so stupid.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's so crazy how many people are just down in that stuff all day long.

[Brian Cowen]

All day long.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And just eating you from the inside.

[Duncan Trussell]

We can see it in their body. Yeah, you can see it in their body, people. I'm sorry, buddy. Sorry. I put my foot on Marshall. I forgot he was there.

[Brian Cowen]

I mean, you see, with kids, I mean.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, it's terrible for kids. It's so bad. It's so bad for everything, you know, but in moderation, it's okay. But the problem is human beings are really bad with moderation of things that are literally designed to be addictive.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, it's so.

[Brian Cowen]

And I'm a creature of habit to where it's like, I build A routine. And then I stick to that fucking routine.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And if that includes, you know, sugary drinks. Sugary drinks and a fucking ice cream at night, whatever, like, it's going to be there.

[Duncan Trussell]

I know. And especially if you're putting in the work, if you're working hard and, and you're working out, you're like, I deserve it. I deserve to poison myself.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Be like, it's balance.

[Duncan Trussell]

There's times like I'll come home from the comedy club and it's late and everyone's asleep and I'm like, fuck it, I'm eating cereal. You know.

[Brian Cowen]

I mean, you're an adult.

[Duncan Trussell]

You get to choose every now and then. And I always feel terrible after I do it. I'm like, well, why did you do that?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

All those ideas that sound so great and you just build up a beautiful idea and then you get done and you're like, what the fuck?

[Duncan Trussell]

The only time I feel good is if I come home and I'll cook a steak. I do, I do like that. Like, I'm gonna actual take a whole hour to make myself a meal. Even though it's 11:30 at night and I'm tired, I'm gonna take a whole hour and make myself a meal and have the discipline to not eat any garbage before that. Because when you're tired, you make the worst dietary decisions. There's a part of you when you're tired. I forget what it's called. I forget what the. There's actually like a thing that happens where you are impulsively going to go towards things that are bad for you. You're impulsively going to go towards potato chips and ice cream and candy and bullshit because you're fatigued.

[Brian Cowen]

And there's convenience. Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like, it's not just that. If there was a fucking home cooked meal like mashed potatoes, green beans, a beautiful like half chicken that was cooked on a, on a, on a, on a grill or ice cream. You might take the ice cream if no one was around.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, you might, you might grab a Kit Kat bar. You know, that's you for sure. If there was a bowl of chips, just an inviting bowl of like Ruffles.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Sitting there like, I'm gonna grab a couple of ruffles.

[Brian Cowen]

And that's that weird dopamine thing. Our brain rewards us somehow and then it fucks with us later.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know what the thing is? The reward is not worth it. It's not a good reward.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like, it's not like an orgasm. It's not like the completion of a project. It's not like the accomplishment of some great goal. The, the, the amount of whatever rush in your brain that you get from eating a shitty potato chip. It's not that much. Yeah, for what it does to you. But if I eat a bag of ruffles, I feel like shit. For five hours.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, for sure.

[Brian Cowen]

I started it came from a time place where I was really poor. And I tried to figure out like, what's the least amount of food I could eat in a day and still survive. Right. Oh boy. And what I started to do was like do little fastings during the day. So like I'd wake up, get a coffee and not eat until like five. But then I started realizing that I felt good doing that, you know, like my body started feeling better and now I pretty much do it regularly now, even though like I have money to get food, I would just wait, just wait. And I found myself actually getting pleasure from the pain of starvation. Like I started to like the feeling of being hungry. Yeah. At a certain point, how hungry are we talking about?

[Duncan Trussell]

This is like 24 hours in or how many hours in?

[Brian Cowen]

No, I, it's like. So I would, I would basically eat one meal at like 5:30.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay.

[Brian Cowen]

So no food all day except, you know, I'd have some coffee with a little bit of half and half in it, so some fat and drinking water, of course. Or maybe like eat like a fucking banana or something. And I like, my body just felt great to where, like before I, you know, I was probably eating something shitty in the morning. Feeling shitty.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Until noon. Eat some other fucking shitty thing. You know, as a young person, you just do whatever the fuck you want.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, your body will get adapted. I mean, that's why that whole intermittent fasting thing is interesting. Right, because you're, you're making your body digest food all day long. Like if you're eating all day long, your body digestion system never gets break.

[Brian Cowen]

Well, I started thinking like even like, you know, back to chasing the fucking deer. Like our bodies used to have to go hunt.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

To get something to eat. So this idea of like waiting, you know, eight hours, six hours before eating anything from waking up, like it all, it started to feel natural for me.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, it is natural as long as you're eating natural food. Yeah, that's the thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

So if you're eating processed foods and a lot of bread and a lot of pasta and a lot of stuff that human beings have made, especially like our American bread, your body's accustomed to a lot of sugar. Your body's accustomed to those complex carbohydrates just pouring into your system all day long, and you're using those as a fuel source. If you are subsisting off of fat and protein and meat and avocados and you're eating healthy food, your body is working off a lot of ketones. Your body is. It's making its own glucose through gluconeogenesis from the meat, and it's also running off of ketones from the fat. It's a way more efficient way of doing it. And when you do that, you don't get nearly as hungry. You don't have that feeling, that awful feeling when I was eating a lot of carbs and if I would go, like four or five hours without eating, I would start getting fucking famished.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You don't get famished when you eat only meat. It stops. You get hungry, but it's totally manageable.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Just that alone. I love the not requiring food. Like, I can go, sometimes I won't eat breakfast. Sometimes I'll work out. I won't eat breakfast. I'll come here, I'll be here all day, and the first meal I have is dinner.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And I'm fine.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

I'm literally fine. Like, it's not bothering me. And it's only because my body's adapted to not eat processed shit.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. Because it's different if you feel like you're going to throw up or pass out because you haven't fucking eaten.

[Duncan Trussell]

And that's people that eat a lot of glucose, people that are eating a lot of carbohydrates. A lot of bullshit.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Your. Your body needs fuel. You get low blood sugar and you start feeling like.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And like, you got to get something in you.

[Brian Cowen]

Well, I noticed as soon as I started doing that, like, the stored fat, like, in my, like, little love handles or whatever, like, immediately just. It was like, the body's like, okay.

[Joe Rogan]

I got to use this shit now.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And.

[Brian Cowen]

And burn it up. Just complete body change. And, like. And mentally I felt so much better.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. People that fast, and I have never fasted for more than 24 hours, but people that fast for, like, three days, they all talk about how great they feel at the end. You feel euphoric and incredible and, like, you have so much energy. I'm like, that sounds nuts. It sounds like you'd be dying.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Because, I mean, I do get miserable sometimes. Of like.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, I could just eat a fucking steak.

[Duncan Trussell]

I hold it off. I hold off the idea of fasting because, like, I make all these excuses for myself, like, oh, I've got to do my show.

[Joe Rogan]

I gotta.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's important. I can't be out of it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And that's for me. I don't have any, like, stringent routine of, like, I'm not allowed to fucking eat something. It's just the routine that I've got into now to where it's like, I just sit down and work. But that kind of probably helps a little bit too, because of that mind state of, like, I don't really if. When I'm in the mode of painting, like, I don't have to go to the bathroom. I'm not hungry.

[Duncan Trussell]

Do you drink coffee or anything while you're doing that?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

I drink espresso during the day. Or, like, I'll get a quad espresso. And then it just kind of lasts most of the day, you know, till like, noon or whatever. And that. I mean, that keeps me kind of on the level, I suppose, because there is some fat in there. And, like, the caffeine obviously helps.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, it's a little. It's a little something. Yeah, yeah, caffeine helps with hunger. But I think that what you're saying, the focus is probably the big thing. That you're just so locked into what you're doing that you're not even.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, it's like I'm not even in my body anymore. Like, the body is separated from the mind in some way.

[Duncan Trussell]

That thing that you were talking about earlier, that is such a weird thing. The. Where it feels like the whatever you're working on just sort of takes over.

[Brian Cowen]

To me, it's something subconscious because, like, the way I look at Jiu jitsu or painting or any real art form as creative problem solving. So for me, all of those things, like, it tickles the same part of my brain to where the. Like, I'll ask myself questions like. And it tends to be like, you have to ask yourself the right questions. Like, I've had, like, I don't know how to use how to fix a car to save my life, but I've had to fix some shit to where I'm like, what should I do here? Or, like, you know, you'll just try something, but it's almost like a subconscious voice. Like I was saying how the painting will kind of tell me how to. How, like, where to go next to where I'm. I don't know an answer. But somehow I come up with it, right? Just by kind of asking my Brain, you know, what, what should we do here? And it's, it's, it's always like, fascinated me that I'll. It's like my brain comes up with solutions to these problems by, you know, running some computation of like, well, if we did this, this will happen. If we did that, this will happen. And I'll come up with ideas that are like, I don't have, that aren't conscious ideas or thoughts that seep in from some depth in my brain that it's like, it's not my control, it's not like a brag.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right, right, right.

[Brian Cowen]

It's like some, some way of thinking that I can get solutions to problems that I don't know the solution to.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right. And you don't feel like those solutions are yours?

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

It comes from somewhere else. I'd like to think of it as like some part of my subconscious or some part of the brain that I'm not accessing in conscious reality that is coming up with answers, but I'm amazed by it all the time. Like, if you've ever had like, like a light that wasn't working in your house, right? But if you like flip the switch three times and then like turn the fucking heater on, somehow the light comes on. You know what I mean? You figure out these ways to accomplish a task or figuring out a solution to a problem. And for me, I feel like with painting and jujitsu or now anything, like, I remember I pinched a nerve in my neck, like bad to where it's like I couldn't even sit up. And I was like, how the fuck am I gonna get out of bed? And just ended up like picking my leg up, hooking my arm behind my leg and doing like a jujitsu thing to like sit myself up because I couldn't like actually set myself up. And I was like, I've never done that before. That's so fucking strange. But like, like my brain just told me to do that.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, that makes sense though. You know how to use your body from Jiu Jitsu. And this would be right up without using your abs.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, yeah, but there's all kinds, like, like fixing the fucking car. Like, I, I don't know what I'm doing, but this seems to be like my brain telling. Maybe try this, you know, and with, with all of these processes of, you know, martial arts and painting, just some creative problem solving aspect of the brain.

[Duncan Trussell]

That'S almost separated from and gets nurtured with use.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, it builds.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, it's strong well, this is what.

[Duncan Trussell]

Pressfield talks about when he talks about summoning the muse, you know, when he. Did you ever read the book the War of Art?

[Brian Cowen]

I haven't.

[Duncan Trussell]

I've got a copy. I'll give you a copy of it. He gave me a box of them because I used to have a box of them on the desk in the old studio that I hand out to people. But it's a short read, but it's an amazing read on this concept of the muse and that, like, treating this thing like you're a professional. You're gonna show up at this time and you're gonna summon the muse and you're gonna do it with sincerity. And if you do that and you show up every day, it. Yeah, and it really does.

[Brian Cowen]

That's what I do. That's exactly. I mean, I live that. Like, I get up, get coffee, I go to the studio, and I'm there until it's time to leave. Then I go teach at night, and then I repeat the whole process.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And it's joy. Like, there isn't a lot of. Like, I probably have a bit of a short attention span to where, like, things can get fucking boring.

[Duncan Trussell]

But obviously not painting.

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Brian Cowen]

I leave after a long day and I feel myself feeling guilty that I'm not still there.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Duncan Trussell]

You see, that's why I have a problem when people use that term, adhd, because I think about myself as a boy, and I'm like, I know they would have fucking diagnosed me if I had the wrong parents.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

I know they would have diagnosed me, and they would have brought me to a doctor who would have put me on some fucking medication, and it would have ruined whatever weird quality that I have that lets me focus on things intensely.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, they want to pretend that everybody has to be the same thing. Like, everybody can't be the same thing. We're all wired different. I'm not wired normal. I'm wired. Like, if what you're saying is boring, I'm like, oh, God, Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

How do I get out of here?

[Duncan Trussell]

I. I know some people that are going, well, so what are you going to do about that, Fred? They can have the boringest fucking conversations all day. I literally feel physical pain.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

When I'm being bored. But if I find something that's really interesting, like, really interesting, I can lock.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And when I lock onto that, I have no problem paying attention.

[Brian Cowen]

And that's a fucking superpower.

[Duncan Trussell]

I think so. And I think, they're fucking kids up, man. And I think there's A lot of lazy parents that don't want to deal with this extraordinary child that has this weird thing that you haven't harnessed.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And you're putting that kid on fucking speed. They're putting them on Ritalin. Shit.

[Brian Cowen]

That's. They were going to try to give me Ritalin when I was a kid. You know, I wasn't a spazzy kid. I wasn't. It just. I was bored as fuck. By what? Like, whatever they were trying to do in school.

[Duncan Trussell]

You're an artist. Yeah, but no one can recognize that. It's almost like they want to pretend that that is not a real option for a human. But why are there so many artists?

[Brian Cowen]

No, I know.

[Duncan Trussell]

What are you saying? How. How is that possible that you want everybody to fit into this square peg? How is it possible that you're teaching and a kid comes along and he's bouncing off the wall, but that could play video games like an assassin? I go, okay, yeah, clearly there's something going on with the video games that you're not providing him in the real world. And his ability to excel at video games shows. He's extraordinary.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's just about focusing that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

We take some little girl who just wants to talk to her friends and joke around in class and you fucking medicate her. She could have probably been an amazing artist. She. Maybe she would have found a subject that she just. Like some kind of a science subject she locks onto. And now all of a sudden, that thing doesn't exist anymore. It's not like she's scattered all. No, she's just bored.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

What you're doing is boring. Your class is fucking boring. You have uninspired teachers who are underpaid. No one gives a fuck about them. They're basically babysitters. And you're bored. And because the teacher doesn't want to deal with you being bored, they tell the principal, the principal tells the doctor, the doctor recommends another doctor. And then a little Billy is sitting there in this doctor's office, and then they pop them full of Ritalin. I had Henry Rollins on the podcast once, and he's telling me they put him on Ritalin when he was a little kid.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

He said he was just like. Like all day long. My God. Damn, man. That's so nuts.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, I remember seeing those kids, too.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Just, like, spun out.

[Duncan Trussell]

Spun out. And now they're all on Adderall, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And that's.

[Duncan Trussell]

Bro, there's a ton of young kids out there in the world that do not have a problem. And they're on Adderall because it helps them concentrate. It helps their scores for college. Yeah, 100%, I guarantee it. There are kids out there in high school right now that are popping Adderall all the time so that they could do better on tests, so they could do better in college.

[Brian Cowen]

And then they're taking Xanax to come down off the fucking Adderall. Like so terrible. So fucking terrible.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's fucking terrible. And you know, these pharmaceutical drug companies are just vampires.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

This is what you need. This is what you need, Mike.

[Brian Cowen]

Seeing the fucking commercials, like during your show.

[Duncan Trussell]

Don't you want to be happy? Don't you want to dance in a wheat field with your child? Don't you want to go to the barbecue? Yeah, actually, look, everyone's at the barbecue. They're happy.

[Brian Cowen]

Everybody's happy.

[Duncan Trussell]

They're not happy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Don't you want to go to the barbecue?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Versus finding the thing that is actually going to bring you joy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

My friend Asana Mod has a great bit about it. I don't want to give it up, but it's great bit. If you ever see him at the mothership. Did you see him?

[Brian Cowen]

I caught the very tail end of his set when I got there.

[Duncan Trussell]

He's got a great bit about.

[Brian Cowen]

Great guy farm.

[Duncan Trussell]

He's great. He's got a. He's a funny dude too. He's been my friend since he was a door guy at the Comedy Store. So it's so interesting to see him like from a very raw beginner.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, to where he is now.

[Brian Cowen]

I mean, you get. You've gotten to see a lot of that, right?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, yeah. And Joey and Yeah. Duncan, all those guys.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Pretty wild. Oh, it's been seeing how the comedy scene has kind of started to flourish here and kind of like build it like that little 6th street way there is pretty wild.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, dude, there's five full time comedy clubs.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right there.

[Brian Cowen]

I. I hung out with my buddy Roy yesterday and I feel like I met like four or five comics just like standing around figuring out what we're gonna do.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's the hub and it's also. This is the most important thing. It's the hub for development of young people. It gives young people a real pathway, a real possibility. And we set it up that way on purpose. Like this is the idea. It's like you cannot have a sustainable comedy community without new members.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

I find a little envy in that. Like, that's a little tougher in the visual arts world is because we're so fucking isolated. We're not like, hanging out at the same spots all the time. And it's like, that's how things used to be, like, back in the day. Like, the artists would all go to the same bar after they were done working for the day.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right. Like, have an artist neighborhood.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like LA had a bunch of neighborhoods where a lot of artists live together.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

I mean, LA is a little bit different from, besides New York than the rest of the art world. It's like, if you're not in one of those two or three hubs, like, you're. You're kind of isolated. You're like, outside of that realm and we don't have that opportunity. I really, like, enjoy that aspect of the comedy community. Towards, like, you see everybody meeting up. Like, they see each other every day. They hug, they talk over shit. They can, like, kind of workshop stuff with each other. Like having that ability is. Or like that community in that aspect.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, it's so powerful. Nice. It's so nice. And so when you were there, it's like perfect setup. Like, Shane Gillis was there, Ron White was there.

[Brian Cowen]

I got to talk with Ron for a while.

[Duncan Trussell]

He's the best.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he's the best.

[Duncan Trussell]

He's such a fucking character.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

So Tony was there. It's. So we have this beautiful community, but it's also like the young people, the young people coming up, they're good, man. They're good and they're hungry and they're focused and they realize that there's a real pathway. So because we set it up so we have two nights of open mic nights, which is really important.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like, you have to have chances for people to get on stage for the first time and. And just chances to just develop.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You just got a few minutes, you go up there, you tell a couple of jokes. Try it again next week. Try it down the street. Try it over here, try it over there. And if you want to do it, if you really want to do it, there's a bunch of people that are also doing it here. So there's like a great community. And it's pretty fucking positive, man. Everybody's pretty. Instead of being cutthroat and backstabby, everybody's real supportive.

[Brian Cowen]

Big difference from la, right? Big difference. I noticed just the sort of, like every interaction I had while I was here for just three days just felt so genuine. Like, not like somebody's trying to get something from you.

[Duncan Trussell]

The regular folks out here, everybody just.

[Brian Cowen]

Seemed like so laid back and chill.

[Duncan Trussell]

And they're focused, regular humans. What we were dealing with in Los Angeles was some amazing people. I missed. There's a lot of amazing people in la, but the overall vibe of the city was a vibe of you were trying to stand out from everybody else and get famous.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, you could feel it. You could feel it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Because, I mean, growing up in San Diego, like, I spent a lot of time in la. Like, I could sense the feeling of, like, everybody, like, it felt like everybody was trying to do something.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yes.

[Brian Cowen]

Like every single person you saw on the street was up to something.

[Duncan Trussell]

And then it got real weird when reality TV came along because you didn't have to have any talent. So it used to be you wanted to be an actor. And people that didn't have any act talent in acting, you couldn't convince them otherwise. They thought they could do it. Everybody thought they could act because acting is essentially just talking. It's just pretending to talk when you know, like, you know why people do.

[Brian Cowen]

It so badly, so bad.

[Duncan Trussell]

But they don't think they do.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

So it's a. But it's a thing that you can't discern. In a way, it's a little bit like comedy. Like, you see a guy like Ron White tell a story on stage and it's so effortless and hilarious that you think, oh, he's not even trying. I can do that. I tell stories. My stories are good too. And you think you could go do it because you don't understand what's actually happening. Yeah, it's just confusing you. It's tricking you.

[Brian Cowen]

Well, that whole routine, like, the idea of like, like writing a monologue seems so obscure to me. Like, I feel like I can be funny in a scenario where it's like people are talking and you have something to bounce off of. But to get up there and do a monologue by yourself like that, it feels so alien to me.

[Duncan Trussell]

To you, because you're smart, but to a dumb dude who sees that, he's like, I could do comedy. And so there was all these people that were just looking at comedy and also looking at acting as a pathway to getting attention.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And then it really got with social media. So when I was leaving, like a year or two before I left, I was already thinking about leaving. I was like, I gotta get out of here. And then I remember I was at a steakhouse and these people were there and people were taking pictures of them, like, what is this? And someone said, I don't even think it was a tick tock influencer. I think it was a Vine influencer. Like, this is a Vine influencer. I was like, what does that mean? Like, what do they do? And it's like, oh, they dance. They dance around. And, like, people are here. I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, this is nuts. So it became another way that you could get famous. You could just get famous by doing pranks or being obnoxious or, you know, taking your clothes off and yelling in traffic, like. And so everybody was just trying to get famous. When you get out of there, you come to a place like Austin, there's this relaxation because they're just people.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

All that's gone. No one here is trying to get famous. It's very rare that someone's trying to get famous. And then if you can insert a comedy community there that really values the process and the results of the art, that's what we're really all about. We're really all about killing all that other stuff comes. The reason why Shane Gillis is the number one comic in the world is because he works hard and he's really funny, and the process yields an amazing result.

[Brian Cowen]

And he's so sincere, super sincere.

[Duncan Trussell]

But the point is, like, he doesn't give a about fame. Like, he's not trying to get famous. Yeah, I know him.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like, it's just not something that happened. We were joking, right, bro? Fame sucks. Like, we were in the green room the other night talking about how much fame sucks in some ways, I'm like, you can handle it. You'll be fine. You're going to handle it.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, it's such a different experience, like, as a. As a painter. Like, nobody really fudgeing knows what you.

[Duncan Trussell]

Look like they do now.

[Joe Rogan]

Bitch.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oops, I spilled coffee. Shit. Not much. Luckily I was almost out.

[Brian Cowen]

But there's some, like, sense of stress to that. I mean, I've even experienced it a little bit with, like, hanging out with you a couple times of, like, people coming up. I'm like, this is so weird. Like, why, like, why do people act like this? Like, around celebrity act?

[Duncan Trussell]

They get weird. But that's the thing also, that people like about being famous. They want people to be uncomfortable around them. They want to be extraordinary without even trying. Yeah, you know, it's a. It's a weird thing, man. It's a weird thing that has existed with royalty, you know, it's kind of the same thing. It's like this desire that people have to be exceptional and stand above everyone else for almost no reason. And the. The fame thing in Hollywood was The thing that was holding the art form of comedy back, too, because it was this velvet prison that existed that if you were a good boy or a good girl and you drew between the lines and you didn't say anything too crazy, you could get a sitcom or you could get a TV show. You could.

[Brian Cowen]

I mean, I've seen that where people just. Like, people who want to be actors, take that comedy route.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, they do. But also really good comics tone their shit down. They don't say what they actually think is funny anymore.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

They say what they think they can get away with and still get a TV show.

[Brian Cowen]

Well, that's something that I noticed at the show of, like, having everybody's phones in the Faraday bags or whatever those are. Like, allows people to be a little bit more honest, and it does direct or, like, really say what they want to say.

[Duncan Trussell]

And more importantly, it allows the audience to totally lock in.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Because for a lot of these people, it's the only two hours of their whole life where they're not gonna be on their phone.

[Brian Cowen]

No, I know.

[Duncan Trussell]

Other than sleeping. You know, when you're. When you're locked in and you're at a live show, it's so fun. It's so good. It's the. It's the correct move for everybody. It's a correct move because, of course, everyone is working on new material and you don't want to get released before it's done because new material takes forever.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's like, it'll take months for a bit to. And sometimes it sucks at first. Or you. It's offensive. Like, something's wrong with that.

[Joe Rogan]

You gotta.

[Duncan Trussell]

I gotta figure out a way that people are not mad, because that's not what I'm trying to say.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And you could figure it out, but it just takes a bunch of different iterations. And if someone videotapes it and puts it up.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like they did with Louis CK when he first came back. It screws up the whole process. It's like you're ruining that for literally millions of people because it's eventually going to get on Netflix and people are going to see it, but it's going to take time. It's not. It's not a simple process. And we have to do it in front of people.

[Brian Cowen]

That's the interesting thing about that art form, too. Like, you got to work shit out.

[Duncan Trussell]

In front of humans.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. It's not. It's. I'm sure. What would. Like, the writing process in your head feels so much different.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. There's a lot of processes. There's the onstage writing process, there's the writing process in your head, and there's the idea process, which is the trickiest one, because the most difficult thing with comedy really is coming up with a subject that's actually interesting to you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Where you really find humor in it. And if those are the ones when I can really find humor in something, that's the ones that I dig into the most because I'm enjoying the shit out of the whole process of uncovering all the ridiculousness. But it has to be something where I'm like, what?

[Brian Cowen]

That's how it is with painting too. Like, I'm. I'm entertaining myself first. Sure. And then hopefully that connects with people somewhere.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. I think it's all together. I think tattooists are like that. I think musicians are like that. I think it's the Miyamoto Musashi quote. Once you understand the way, broadly, you see it in all things.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's beautiful.

[Duncan Trussell]

It is beautiful because I think you probably see it in the other things that you do. You see it in your art, you see it in jiu jitsu. And there's people out there that. They're seeing it in writing, they're seeing it in sculpture, whatever. There's a thing, whatever it is, that allows you to get really good at the thing that you love. That thing takes over while you're doing it. And you're almost not there anymore. You're almost like a passenger.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And that's when, you know, you hit the good spot. Like if I'm a big Bukowski fan. And on. On his. On his gravestone, it says, don't try. Like that's the insignia. And then it's like a pair of boxing gloves.

[Duncan Trussell]

Another guy, a famous drunk.

[Brian Cowen]

That's. All of my favorite writers are self destructive. I don't know. I don't know why, but they are.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, I found this the other day about Hemingway. Hemingway always thought that the FBI was trying to get him. And apparently. Apparently they actually were.

[Brian Cowen]

Really?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, they actually were.

[Brian Cowen]

He.

[Duncan Trussell]

He thought that he was.

[Joe Rogan]

Here.

[Duncan Trussell]

I'll send this to you. Jamie. You saw it.

[Brian Cowen]

I saw it was like a meme.

[Duncan Trussell]

Going around the other day. Oh, here it goes. The FBI investigated Ernest Hemingway for decades with surveillance beginning the 1940s due to concerns about his activities in Cuba and his associations with individuals suspected of communist ties. While initially dismissed as paranoia, it was later revealed that Hemingway's fears were grounded in reality. And the FBI did monitor him, even tapping his phones and Intercepting his mail. The surveillance continued throughout his later years, including his time in the hospital, and may have contributed to his mental anguish and suicide.

[Joe Rogan]

Damn. Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You can't. What about Booze? Severe depression, 42 to 74. They studied them. What'd you learn?

[Brian Cowen]

That's wild. That's that thing. There's that like there's a meme or like a somebody saying that, like, you have to beware of the artists because they associate with everybody, you know, like, they're not just locked into, like an upper class society. Like, they're like, even, like, where I was staying, like, I made friends with like three or four homeless guys just out on the street that I just kept seeing around town from being around, you know, like, like we associate with everybody. There's no, like, hierarchy of, of class.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, I think if you really want to be open, like really open, you have to encounter a lot of different kinds of humans.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, if you really like, if you. Especially if you're a comic because you want to. Or a writer, if you want to understand people, you have to interact with them.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. Because if you, especially as a writer, like, you only have your own experience. Yeah. If you just write your own experience, it's just gonna come off as like every character is. You exactly, like, put yourself in the head of somebody else. It's.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, you have to be open.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. You have to be.

[Brian Cowen]

And have like a certain form of. Of empathy.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Brian Cowen]

To even understand how somebody else feels.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's why there's a contradiction of the star comedian. Like, that's where things get weird. Like the star comedian. Because if you're a star and every. Jerry Seinfeld's here.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Take the pictures like you're walking the red carpet and you're like, you got to be down with the people. You got to be in the nitty gritty. Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

You got to find some trenches.

[Duncan Trussell]

You better figure out the trenches because if you don't. And I think, if you think about like my favorite comedians, they were all self destructive too.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

All of them. Richard Pryor lit himself on fire. Like, that's about as self destructive.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Kinnison, cocaine and alcohol. Hicks, lots of drugs and then cigarettes till he got pancreatic cancer.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

They were all at least some way fighting some fucking thing inside their head.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

It makes me wonder, like, how much of it is, like maybe that empathy is too much. Maybe that maybe you feel too much, you know, and you gotta. You gotta kind of.

[Duncan Trussell]

There's the. There's just the stress of the job itself.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, especially when you find success.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[Brian Cowen]

Because you gotta keep that.

[Duncan Trussell]

You gotta also still be putting out new stuff.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

So you got a chance to see me. I'm. This is all new stuff, right? This is stuff that didn't. It wasn't on my Netflix special. So it's all in development. It's all like. And that process is. It's fun. I love it. Don't get me wrong. But like, before I go on stage, I'm amped up, I'm pacing, I'm moving around, I'm listening to Nas. I got some music playing. I'm getting my dance on. I'm having an espresso. I'm fucking breathing. Like I want to get ready.

[Brian Cowen]

That's how. I always feel a little awkward in the green rooms. Like, I don't want to be too.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, I'll be. Hi.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay, listen, you're cool in the green room. You know the handle green rooms. There's some dudes that are a real problem.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Some dudes that start telling really terrible stories in the green room. You're like, oh my God, this is so boring. We gotta get a movie. But the green room is supposed to be just for comics, you know? And sometimes people will bring in people that are not supposed to be in the green room.

[Brian Cowen]

And like, I was actually telling a story about that yesterday when we were all at the American Comedy Co in San Diego when Doug was doing that Doug Benson was doing the Chronic Con documentary. Do you remember that? Not really fucking long ass time ago. But some guy came in who, I don't know, like a fucking investor or like somebody, oh, he's cooked up, right? I don't know. He grabbed a Bud Light bottle as though it was a bong. He was like, where's the weed? And like, like he was gonna like smoke a bong load out of this Bud Light beer bottle dropped the bottle, broke it everywhere. Like, made a fucking scene. Everyone's like, is this guy like, what is going on? Like, just the, like way that people act so fucking strange when they feel almost like they have to perform, but their performance is horrible.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, I don't think it's that. I think they just. That guy was on drugs, I think. And also I think they get a documentary, they get anxious, right? Yeah, people just get weird. They don't know what to do.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, we're strange.

[Duncan Trussell]

There's a lot of people that are barely keeping it together out there. Dude.

[Brian Cowen]

Sometimes I think that's me. But just, just barely hanging on, you know?

[Duncan Trussell]

No, you're fine.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you're fine.

[Duncan Trussell]

But I think every artist feels like that. Yeah, every artist feels like it's one thing that they could do one day that's gonna ruin their life. They're always like that close to just. It's all just like this keeping it together thing that you have in your mind, you know, and you have to have, you have to have some process that you do that keeps you on the work and not on the self destructive path.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Because if you're a person that like maybe has a drug issue and you're fighting that off and as long as you work all the time, like you're cool, like you're good. But then if you wake up late that one day and you're like, I'm just a fucking one hit, I'd be good for through just one little. Whoa. Just a little tipsy. I could stop in the beginning. I was only doing it every now and then.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, I can just go back to just like, like you moderation. I think it's good. You know, it really gives me a little pep up when I need it. Maybe your doctor gives you a little Adderall. Like the Adderall is good, but two pills is better. Three pills is really. I get so productive. I think I'd get my company off the ground if I could just really concentrate with these three pills.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And then, then you, then you're.

[Duncan Trussell]

And you're so it's like, it's this balance that we all have. And it's not just artists, it's just people in life.

[Brian Cowen]

It's just, it's like dealing with insecurities. Whatever the insecurity is, you could mask it with, you know, some drug or alcohol or whatever. Or you could lean into it and be like, okay, I feel this way. I accept that. What can I do?

[Duncan Trussell]

I think the problem is the term insecurity because like, good Lord, everything is insecure. Like the secure things, a lot of secure things are really boring. I mean these secure things that are awesome, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

But there's a lot of that. That's, it's, that's not what it is. It's uncertainty. Uncertainty is what freaks you out. The options that are possible, the things that, the possible results, the variables, all the different things.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And that's gonna handcuff plenty of people.

[Duncan Trussell]

But you got to learn how to handle that. You know, I used to. When I was teaching, when I was teaching martial arts, I taught a lot of kids and I had a lot of kids compete in Tournaments. I really loved doing that. I really loved it when they really got into it and they got better and I could see them improving and then winning tournaments. It was amazing. But I remember I would, some kids would really struggle with competition and I would tell them that's because you're smart. And I go, you see these people that are not worried about this, they don't know what can happen to them. Yeah, they're delusional. They think they're going to be okay no matter what. But you're smart. You know that this is dangerous. Yeah, that's good. You just have, you got to use that. You got to just hang on to it, use it and then get in there and you'll be fine. Once it, once the fight starts, you're not gonna be scared anymore, which is weird.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

When the fight starts, then Jesus do exist. It's just happening. It's just happening. And it's all automatic and it's all your, you know, you have instincts and you have an understanding of the game, but you also have just, just dialed in technique. That's all it is. It's all about the execution of all the things you've practiced. And it all just happens. But the lead up is so bad. The anxiety before when you're sitting in a locker room waiting for your time, you're like, fuck. And I would just tell them, I would go, just, you got to understand this sucks. But this is just something. If you just can accept that this is here, accept that it's here and recognize that this is a gift and this is here because you're smart. And the reason why you're worried about all these possibilities is because you're intelligent enough to recognize that. That's the thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

You're looking for the outcomes and then figuring out way. That's kind of what I was talking about before, like predicting outcomes and figuring out solutions to problems that have yet to occur.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Like when you're thinking that far ahead, like that's. It's a different chess game.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. And you and the dull minded nitwits out there that don't have any fear, there's a reason they don't have any fear because they don't have the capacity to comprehend all the possibilities.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

So if some guy is like, doesn't know how to fight at all. You've seen this 100 times on videos online and he gets in someone's face and that guy's like, bang, just crack some. Like that dull minded shithead. He is not the fearful one. He's not the. He's not the intelligent one. The intelligent people are fearful. You should be fearful. It's good. It helps you. Especially if you're about to do something difficult. And you should do difficult shit because it teaches you about yourself. And if you don't learn about yourself, you're always gonna wonder. And that's the problem with, like, a lot of men in the world. A lot of chest puffy. A lot of, like, fucking really arrogant, aggressive people. Like, it's because they don't know themselves. So they're trying to impose a version of themselves on other people to be respected.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, you find this in these fucking, like, business CEOs and execs who are, like, really aggressive and they weigh 80 pounds. Like, this is what this is. It's like they're. They're finding a way to try to figure out who the fuck they are. They don't even know themselves.

[Brian Cowen]

And that's one of the things I, like, I fucking know myself. Like, spent so much time with myself in, like, a clear sort of frame of thought, knowing my limitations, knowing what I've accomplished when I was even more limited. Like, if anything, that's. I think this whole process is.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's the difference process between an artist and, like, say, someone who wants to be famous or somebody who wants to be worshiped, someone who wants to be the head of a company or the president of the United States or somebody wants to be beyond reproach.

[Brian Cowen]

Nobody who wants to be president should ever be president.

[Duncan Trussell]

100%. Yeah. Yeah, it should be. But then again, huh.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, if you got, like, some benevolent. Some truly benevolent dictator that we're all waiting for. We're all waiting for, like, the benevolent leader who's just gonna take control of it, but do it for the people, you know, Marcus Aurelius, some. Someone who just really, really does have the people's best wishes in mind.

[Brian Cowen]

Human greed is too fucking strong.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's too strong. And anybody that's willing to go through that process, that brutal process, you know, like, all the stuff that's in the news today, I mean, there's still. There's possible legal ramifications of things that happened in the 2016 election that we're hearing about today. Yeah, it's like, these people are gross. Like, the whole thing, it's the opposite of the Austin comedy community. So, like, if we had to choose a president of the Austin comedy community, it wouldn't be that hard. Like, whoever wins is great. You know, if Shane wins, great. If Duncan wins. Great. Who are you going to elect? Who cares? Everyone's cool. But the, the presidential world is like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You have the backings of enormous, enormous military industrial complex corporations, enormous amounts of money, Pentagon budgets beyond comprehension. Yeah, it's going to be $1 trillion this year. Mean, what does this mean? So like the, the, the, the ability to be at the helm of that. Like there's going to be no cooperation with the left and the right. And, and you're seeing what happens when one group gets into power. What's the first thing they do? Like, what did they do when they got into power? They immediately went after Trump. They hit him with a ton of different legal charges. Most of them didn't make any sense. The, the, all the crazy about overestimating his property in Mar? A Lago. Like that is the, the way they were using the law. God, you people are gross on both sides. On both fucking sides.

[Brian Cowen]

That's. The whole system is so fucking corrupted. And it's so obvious. Like we're at a stage where like we have enough information to see, like how much greed and money just corrupts the system.

[Duncan Trussell]

But we, I don't think we really got to see it until Trump ran. I think you got to see it unveiled in a way when Trump ran that you never got to see before. Because also you got the rise of independent journalism. That happens at the same time.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

So you have people that record just on the facts. Not like this CNN fucking Lean or the Fox News lean, but just like just reports on exactly what's happening and how it happened. That just didn't exist before. So you get an understand if you're paying attention and you follow those people, and a lot more people are than ever before, you get a way different understanding of how gross this game is.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And because the guy was so polarizing and because he was such an easy guy to turn into a Nazi, like you, like, you pointed to him, you're like, this is that this is our. Fuck him. Look out of the way he talks. He's gonna ruin the world. It's a threat to democracy. We could do anything we can to stop him. So what do they do? They stop all the primaries. They don't have real primaries anymore. They haven't had a real primary since 2012. They rig them. They rig it with Bernie Sanders, they rig it with RFK Jr. You know, they're just. The whole business is gross. It's gross.

[Brian Cowen]

I wish us as humans were all like together enough to just self govern.

[Duncan Trussell]

You would need People to enter into politics at the highest level that didn't need the money and really were good people that really wanted to just change the tone of how everything is governed. And that's going to be so hard to do because the money is so nuts.

[Brian Cowen]

And that's. I think.

[Duncan Trussell]

Do you see the Nancy Pelosi thing? The new one?

[Brian Cowen]

She was being interviewed and then was like, I didn't want to talk about that.

[Duncan Trussell]

Put that on Anderson Cooper. He sneaks it in. She's like, I came here to talk about the anniversary of Medicaid. Like, she cares about Medicaid. She's worth an estimated $400 million now.

[Brian Cowen]

How. What's the salary? 70,000 a year?

[Duncan Trussell]

170 grand a year, something like that. 200 grand a year, maybe. You know, but watching the panic in her face, realizing that Trump is now president and they're. They're talking about literally going after her for insider trading and the undeniable evidence that they have had better results on the stock market than literally anyone ever.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And they have access to information about. Laws are going to be passed.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

If that's not insider trading, what the fuck is?

[Brian Cowen]

And that's what I mean. The. The, The. The greed. The level of greed is so strong that you.

[Duncan Trussell]

You got that video.

[Brian Cowen]

She might even had good intentions getting into office.

[Duncan Trussell]

Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up.

[Brian Cowen]

Or anybody.

[Duncan Trussell]

Shut your mouth.

[Brian Cowen]

I feel like it's a system.

[Duncan Trussell]

Demons that corrupts. Yes.

[Brian Cowen]

The minute you get in.

[Duncan Trussell]

I think so. I think if you want to succeed, like, what happens, Maybe you have these idealistic, you know, perspectives on how politics works or what you can do in your contribution. And then you get in and you're like, oh, Jesus. Yeah, it doesn't work that way. I have to survive. You know, Like, I've had candid conversations with Tulsa Gabbard about what it was like, and she's a person. She tries to be friends with everybody, tries to reach across the aisles. She's got that whole aloha spirit. And she was like, it's crazy. Like, it's like the. The. Just The. The amount of backstabbing that's going on. Like, when she got into office, like, first of all, you realize, like, you're not really in control of everything because there's another person who's in control of each individual department, and they'll stop whatever you're trying to do every step of the way. They get in the way of everything. And what are you gonna do? You're gonna replace everybody? And how are you gonna Find qualified people to take those jobs. This guy's been at that. He's been the czar of this commission for 25 years.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

So he knows, like, all the ties and all the financial agreements here. Let's watch this. Because it's so funny.

[Joe Rogan]

Let me just read what he said. I'm sorry that we had some sort of technical issue.

[Brian Cowen]

Nancy Pelosi became rich.

[Mike Maxwell]

Why do you have to read that? We're here to talk about the 60th anniversary of Medicaid. That's what I agreed to come to talk.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but I want.

[Mike Maxwell]

That means in the election.

[Joe Rogan]

I wanted to give you a chance just to respond. He accused you of insider trading. What's your response to that?

[Mike Maxwell]

Ridiculous. In fact, I very much support this. Stop the trading of members of Congress. Not that I think anybody's doing anything wrong. If they are, they are prosecuted and they go to jail, but because of the confidence it instills in the American people. Don't worry about this. But I have no concern about the obvious. Investments had been made over time. I'm not into it. My husband is. But it isn't anything to do with anything insider. But the president has his own exposure, so he's always projecting. He's always projecting. And let's not give him any more time on that, please. We're going forward here. And I'm very proud of my family. And while he might make fun of us while somebody inspired by him breaks into our home and hits my. In a deadly fashion, hits my husband over the head and he thinks that's a riot. I'd rather not go into some of my other questions, complaints about him right now, rather to talk about the 60th anniversary of Medicare.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay, okay, okay. First of all, what crazy projection. She immediately turned herself into a victim. She immediately, like, went from Jake Tapper's like, what's your response? Oh, this is ridiculous. Nothing was insider.

[Brian Cowen]

Nothing.

[Duncan Trussell]

We have $400 million. Whatever. Whatever. What's really important is Trump inspired a man who broke. First of all, how do you know that guy was a literal crazy person that broke into that house?

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, that was a weird fucking thing.

[Duncan Trussell]

Schizophrenic. He had a hammer. He smashed the back window. He broke into the house. Paul thought that he could talk the guy down. It looked like Paul had a drink in his hand. So he's probably a little lit.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Probably a little more calm than he should have been. And then the cops are at the door and the dude hits him in the head with a hammer. That guy was A crazy person. You're blaming Donald Trump for that? No, that's so nuts that you have gone from. You made an insane amount of money. A lot of people say you're insider trading. What's your response to the job? My husband got hit in the head with a hair.

[Brian Cowen]

There are black belts at deflection.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's funny, you know, it's because. It's all. Because the President has a lot of exposure.

[Brian Cowen]

Because it's funny. Trump does the same shit with her if he's on the hot seat. Nancy Pelosi.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

You know, it's. They all have that, like, natural deflection.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, man. It's like.

[Brian Cowen]

And it's like we all fucking accept it somehow. Like, we might make fun of it or, like, be like. Because my bullshit meter goes off all the fucking time. Like, you're fucking lying to me right now. You can see it.

[Duncan Trussell]

There's a reason why that whole ability to trade stocks is still in position, and it's because they want it there. They make a shit ton of money.

[Brian Cowen]

The general public, insider information.

[Duncan Trussell]

They have to figure out at what point in time is this too dangerous and who's willing to, like, make this a law? Who's willing to change this? And are the. What politicians are going to sign on board for that because they're actually voting against their own self interests.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, right.

[Duncan Trussell]

If they all decide, like, it's like they're playing chicken. Like, as long as they don't do it. Yeah, as long as they don't do it, then they can still make a ton of money. But if you look at the numbers, like, if you look at, like, who's making money in the stock market, it is not all Nancy Pelosi. It is red, blue, red, blue, red, blue. It's pretty much down the middle.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. I mean, as long as you could skirt the legalities, why would you not take information that you have gained and try to utilize it to your improvement?

[Duncan Trussell]

And you're hanging out with Harry, the senator from fucking South Dakota or whatever, and Harry's got a yacht. Like, how did you get a yacht, Harry? Like, you know, the. Bobby's got his own private jet. How'd you get your own jet, Bob? You're a congressman. Like, what are you doing? And those people that are able to generate that kind of wealth. And I think she's like the. The poster girl for it, unfortunately. But it's not her, like, who's made the most. Yeah, let's find that out. Article here. I don't know if this is Officially, the most. But there's people that have made more than her. Yeah, I'm sure they have. Where does it say, though, more than 20 here. Okay. More than 20 members made almost double the S&P 500 average gain. Which is crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

So tell me. It's like point 5% more, but percentage more. Okay.

[Duncan Trussell]

David Rouser, Republican, North Carolina. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Democrat, Florida. Ron Wyden, Democrat, Oregon. Roger Williams, Republican, Texas. See, that's the point. It's like, it's not blue. It's not red. It's just corruption across the board. They're all doing it. If you're making more than 50%, that's bananas. That's bananas.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like, what is there? Hold on. Scroll back down, scroll down. Okay, look at this. The Pelosi want an almost cult, like, following for her financial disclosure. Saw the value of her household's portfolio rise by 71% in recent years. Like, that kind of trading is super unusual.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

To make more than double the average gain of 24.9. So make more than 50%. That's crazy. Nobody does that.

[Brian Cowen]

No. And how would you. How do. How do you explain that?

[Duncan Trussell]

And how do you explain those decisions?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

When you look at the decisions, like, she dumps stock, and then three months later, some big bill comes down the line that fucks that company. She buys stock, and then three months later, some big, big bill that comes down that, you know, they're funding for this new project. It's crazy. More than a dozen U.S. officials sold stocks before Trump's tariffs sent the market plunging. Of course they did. Well, how about when Trump tweets out to buy? Remember that I was part of this? Yeah. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah, it's fucking like, hey, don't do that. Is it crazy that he's in his own money, too? How about that?

[Brian Cowen]

And yet still, like, poor people are sitting here arguing about who's the better person. Like, it's fucking wild. Like, they're all corrupt and they're all us.

[Duncan Trussell]

Some less than others. Some are.

[Brian Cowen]

Some are allowing us to talk, you know, and that's. I think that's when you see, like, the south park episode with Trump. Like, I know we're not. We're not in a fascist state yet. You know what I mean?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yes.

[Brian Cowen]

We're still okay.

[Duncan Trussell]

Exactly.

[Brian Cowen]

We're still.

[Duncan Trussell]

As long as south park exists, we're okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

I mean, look, it's all weird, man, because this system is completely fucked. It's completely fucked, and we don't want it to be, and they want it to stay the way it is. And so there's this weird thing where they have to get elected. So to get elected, they have to say the things that we want them to say. And so then we believe it every year, like fucking Charlie Brown going to kick that football. Lucy pulls it away.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

But what's the weirdest thing to me is that we're in this complete shifting of the polls where the Republicans now are in favor of free speech. The Republicans want to end the wars. They want to stop contributing to foreign countries. You know, they want comedy to be comedy again. They don't want restrictions on people's behavior and thinking.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And the Democrats have developed this sort of like, cult like idea of what everyone should accept and what's normal and what's not normal and what needs to be, what needs to be elevated in our population and what needs to be ignored. And it's just like, God damn, you guys are. You're ruining it for everybody that thinks in a left way. Like anybody who's reasonable. Like a reasonable left thinking person, which is most artists, by the way.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, of course.

[Duncan Trussell]

And then you get to this point where you're like, no, I can't go along with you on all these things. Yeah, you guys are. You're. You're just a bunch of who are using these subjects as a way where you can behave incredibly shitty, incredibly uncharitable, like vicious, mean, ostracizing people from society. I don't want any part of you, I don't want any part of the way you guys think and behave and you to pretend that you're doing it for good. You're doing it for. You're gluing yourself to the wall for climate change. The. You are. Yeah, you're just a nut. You're just a crazy, entitled nut and you're fucking up society. This is not the way that people should be behaving. And I can't believe it makes people go to the other. And the Republicans are smarter about it now in this day and age because they're like, hey, we'll take in. Hey, it's fine, come over to us. You could say whatever you want. Comedy's back.

[Brian Cowen]

It's a big ebb and flow to me. It's like, it's like some weird natural balance of, like, things shift a little bit to the left, things shift a little bit to the right, but we.

[Duncan Trussell]

Gotta hold the center.

[Brian Cowen]

If we motherfuckers could just figure out, like, we're so. We have so much in common, people just generally who would be considered more left or more right. And it's just a few things that really are the basis of our contention.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, the real problem is the team aspect of it.

[Brian Cowen]

That's the. It's fucking retarded.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, it's real retarded. Yeah, you can say it. Why can't you say joking? Yeah, thank God you're joking. Some people panic. Please edit that out. No, no, back. It's just, you know, I think it's going to take time, but I think we're going to eventually get to a place where we work it out. And my best hopes of AI is my best hopes because it could just ruin the whole world and take over everything and we could become slaves. My best hopes are it gets to a point of efficiency and intelligence where corruption like that is impossible. And it figures out a way to organize government spending in a way that actually helps us because that's what we want.

[Brian Cowen]

The left and the right both want, like our tax dollars to be used to benefit everyone.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yes. Unless you're running a business and you can get an advantage. And that's where it gets gross, because those people can pay so much. And I. AI is probably going to recognize that. It's going to say, listen, you want to really fix this, you have to stop this competitive advantage.

[Brian Cowen]

Well, it's our ape genes, right? We're just fucking more advanced apes. That's it. And we still have a tribal mentality that's encoded in our fucking DNA. And we have to elevate above that. And that just takes avoiding greed.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's also what you do when you paint is you focus on creating this thing like this is what you're focused on. What they're focused on is numbers in a bank account. And they're focused on getting those numbers in there. And they're fucking obsessed with getting those numbers in there. So all those other steps that they do, like, you're trying to figure out your painting, you're trying to, like, brush techniques and different things, and you're trying different angles, maybe shadowing it differently. What they're doing is trying to figure out how to push this and push that and get this politician to make this legal. And that way they can make more money. And then Nancy Pelosi's like, we're gonna pass it.

[Brian Cowen]

Paul put in.

[Duncan Trussell]

Put in the wager, because it's basically wagering, right? You know, put in the gambling, buy the stocks, it's gonna roll.

[Brian Cowen]

But if you have all the cards marked.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, it is. And it's it's fucking. It's a real unfortunate thing. And how do you avoid that? Because you really, you want corporations, you want them to make Apple laptops and shit, you want a Samsung tv, you want these things. Right. So how do you, how do you motivate? How do you get people that are motivated to make the best products in the world and every year make them better and not have them think only about making money to the point where they're willing to bribe politicians so that they can pollute a river in India?

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, and that's what's so different about artists. It's like we. I would make paintings my whole life. Nobody bought them, nobody gave a shit about them. I would still make them and would give them away or put them in a fucking closet somewhere. Like we. For me, I saw like art as a way that maybe I could get out of like the area that I was in. Like, I could grow a little bit, but at the same time, like, doing the work was what was important and what came with that was secondary. It was all just added bonus.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right?

[Brian Cowen]

Right. So like if I worked, if I was selling fucking wheels or car tires, like, I would only be thinking about the how much money can I make?

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's the problem. Especially if it's not. If you're not like a wheel and car tire enthusiast.

[Brian Cowen]

It's one thing if you love it.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. Like I know dudes who work on cars and they, they fucking love it. Especially builders.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like my friend Steve Strope who's been on the podcast before, who made my Nova. That guy loves working on cars. He loves it. I mean, that is his art. But he makes custom made cars and it's like to him is just like making a song. It's just like making a painting. Yeah, but when you're only thinking about money, man, those are the people that are the hardest to hang out with. Like, you ever hang out with financial people? Like, you ever get stuck at a party in New York with a coked up financial guy?

[Brian Cowen]

Have you seen this Derek Moneybird fella?

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, is he the jiu jitsu guy?

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, got his black belt in three and a half years.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right. But he is, is he legit? Because he's with legit people.

[Brian Cowen]

So I can't imagine Jake Shields is a savage. Like all the respect.

[Duncan Trussell]

Jake says he's legit.

[Brian Cowen]

I think Jake gave him his black belt.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, then he's legit. There's no way I know Jake. There's no way Jake is his jiu jitsu. Is top of the food chain.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And I know Gordon is. Trained with him. I know all these other people train with him.

[Brian Cowen]

Down her was over there with him.

[Duncan Trussell]

I haven't heard anybody say anything negative. So here's the thing. Someone who is, like, super rich, which potentially this guy is, who trains with the best trainers in the world and actually puts the time in every day, it's super easy to dismiss someone because they're rich. Super easy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Zuckerberg is a primary example of that.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

I know for a fact Zuckerberg trains really fucking hard.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And he goes with real guys and he brings in people like Dave Camarillo trains with them. He's trained with a ton of people.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

So he takes it very seriously. Has access to incredible trainers. And he's an obsessive. He's a very competitive, obsessive person.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure.

[Duncan Trussell]

So you could say, oh, he's got $200 billion. He can't kick my ass. That dude will fuck you up. That nerdy dude will fuck you up. And it's because he's actually put in the time now. He doesn't have the time that this Derek Moneybird guy has.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

If this guy's got. If he's putting in, like, hours and hours every single day, which is what I heard, that he was like, literally training multiple hours a day, every fucking day. At Jiu Jitsu, you can get to black belt level. I don't know if he is, you know, but I know that if those guys say he is, I believe them.

[Brian Cowen]

That's. I. I told somebody. I was like, let me just see him do an arm bar from closed guard. Let me just see how. How sloppy that is, and then I'll. I'll know for sure.

[Duncan Trussell]

Or not sloppy at all.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. Then exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

Why doesn't he just, like, show some drilling?

[Brian Cowen]

That's all it would take.

[Duncan Trussell]

You don't even have to show me you rolling. Let me see some tight drills.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

That's all it would take.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Let me see you go through. But, you know, he doesn't have to. But then again, you kind of do have to if you project the fact that you're doing that.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. If you take some sort of, like, braggadocious sort of angle, like three. Three years, seven months. Got my black belt.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

You should probably show something like, hey, let me show you guys.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, because otherwise.

[Brian Cowen]

Because when I start, I was just doing two a day. Two Morning class, night class.

[Joe Rogan]

And yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

You know, none of that came fast for me.

[Duncan Trussell]

But you might not have Been the most naturally athletic guy.

[Joe Rogan]

True. Yeah, true.

[Duncan Trussell]

But night classes and day classes are great, but one on one is the ultimate. If you're a guy like him and you can get John Donahue to coach you, you can get Gordon Ryan to coach you, you can get all those Jake Shields all. I mean, I've seen photos and videos of him from training sessions with the best guys in the world.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

So if you can get. And you're hiring them.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

It could be a cheat code or it's 100.

[Duncan Trussell]

A cheat code? Yeah, it's 100 if you do it. If you actually do the work, it's 100 achieve.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure.

[Duncan Trussell]

But that's the. That's the thing. Like, you have to actually be training, like, really hard. It's not as simple as, you know those guys. You talk to those guys, they give you the secret handshake, and now you're good at.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

The only way to get good at Jiu Jitsu is hard work. That's it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And I. But I could never see somebody like Jake Shields, like, giving out a belt that wasn't deserved.

[Duncan Trussell]

No, no, no, no. It's like when you hear Guy Ritchie is a black belt, you go, really? And then he hears a Henzo Gracie black belt, you go, oh.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay. He's legit. Yeah, he's legit.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

But there's not a lot of fake Jiu jitsu black belts out there, man.

[Brian Cowen]

I feel like we used to see more of them back in the day.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

There'd be like, those funny videos of, like, somebody just.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, Eddie caught a couple of those. Yeah, there's a bunch of those videos where a guy shows up at a school and he's got a black belt on, and then he rolls with people and he gets tortured.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, that was, like, before YouTube existed or any social media existed. You can kind of get away with it.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, Well, I think people, they. They're crazy. There's certain people that are just completely schizophrenic, and they just. Yeah, they get it in their head and they just.

[Brian Cowen]

They're not even trying to, like, con people. It's just they really, truly believe in what their. Their mind is telling them.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, that might be possible, but I think there's also a bunch of people that their whole life is a con. It's like a series of lies from the beginning to the end. It's just they never live in the truth. And so for them to put on a black belt is just the latest of. Yes. I was reading about this guy that, like, said he was a doctor and, like, did surgery on people for years.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

There's people that are nuts, man. There's one out of three pilots in. I think it's Pakistan doesn't have a license. That's wild. They have fake licenses. See if that's true. I. I know I saved the article, but I don't feel like going into my phone and getting it. But it was like, Jesus Christ. Like, imagine you're on a plane and the guy doesn't really know how to fly.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, yeah, it's fucking horrifying.

[Duncan Trussell]

Who's he? How does he figure out how to land that fucking thing?

[Brian Cowen]

I mean, the amount of intelligence to pull that off, like, you probably could have got your fucking pilot's license.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, a few successful flights, you would think that the guy would just go ahead and get the license.

[Brian Cowen]

You're already doing the thing that's like, I see artists in art school. I'm like, you're already making art?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

You know how.

[Duncan Trussell]

From five years ago. So I don't know if it's changed. Almost one in three pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses. Oh, my God. 262 pilots in the country did not take the exam themselves and had paid someone else to sit in on their behalf. They don't have flying experience, he said. Pakistan has 860 active pilots serving in its domestic airlines, including the country's Pakistan International Airlines flagship, as well as a number of foreign carriers. Oh, my God.

[Brian Cowen]

How many crashes are they having? I mean, if they're. If they're keeping them in the air.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right. Ambitious dudes.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, Sometimes. Sometimes you don't need a diploma.

[Duncan Trussell]

Found that out because of a crash. All right. Whoopsies.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Jesus Christ. Oh, my God. That's so crazy. People are so nuts, man. If you let them be nuts, they will be nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

I think you gotta have, like. People don't want any regulations. You want anarchy. Like, shut your mouth. Shut up.

[Brian Cowen]

I have this idea of, like, an altruistic anarchism where it's like, everybody just treats everybody kindly in the way that you would want to be treated.

[Duncan Trussell]

That would be great.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. But it's so. It's. We're the. Our fucking ape mind is. There's too many of us that are fucking nuts.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And greedy and, like, just out for self. And I get it. Like, it makes sense. Like, there's a lot of self preservation that comes with that. But if we could all just kind of pull the clinically pull our together.

[Duncan Trussell]

Self preservation makes sense. When you're surrounded by a bunch of people that are also selfish.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's part of the problem is, like, if you. If you get lucky and you find a good crew, like, early on in your life of people are down with you, that your friends, and they love you no matter what, life is way easier. It's way easier. And there's people out there that, man, they don't fucking have that.

[Joe Rogan]

They don't.

[Duncan Trussell]

They have a bunch of people around them that suck just in a form.

[Brian Cowen]

Of competition at all times.

[Duncan Trussell]

I mean, I'm a lucky person. I'm a very lucky person, But I think the biggest luck that I have is the people that I've met in my friends.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Because it makes your life so much better.

[Brian Cowen]

Well, I mean, it shows, like, how much you. You support your friends too. Like. Like the idea that if we can all get lifted up together versus I'm gonna step on your shoulders and work my way to the fucking top. Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

But not only that, but it also shows that this my way works. It doesn't hurt you to make other people successful or to help other people get more successful or just to tell people they're awesome and give them their. As the kids call their flowers. As the kids. I struggle with that one. The young hip hop kids like to say that give them their flowers, but, you know, it used to be given their props. But it's like that. That if you really love that person, that's good for everybody. That's good for you, too. Like, the people that want to step on that person to elevate themselves, like, you're just ruining your own life. You're missing the big picture, and it's not necessary. It's not necessary. Even in a competitive environment, even in something you're competing, like your friends, these people that you're competing with, they help you. They really do.

[Brian Cowen]

It's almost a necessity.

[Duncan Trussell]

I think it's a necessity with comedy, for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

No, I always say this, that no great comedy exists in a vacuum. I mean, there's people that have talent that are in the middle of nowhere and some real small local scene, and they could become a great comic one day, but they're not going to on their own. Yeah, they have to be around great comics. They can't just see them on YouTube. They got to see, like, Dave Attell live. You know, you got to see something like that where you're like, whoa. You know, you got to see Colin Quinn live. You got to see these people that are masters and see the thing that they do and get inspired by it.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, start to learn it, like understand the process. Like, that's same thing for me. Like I, I thought I was going to be like, like do the Sunday comics in the newspaper. Like, as a kid, like, I didn't know, I didn't know what people did to make money making art.

[Duncan Trussell]

Were you into comic books at all?

[Brian Cowen]

Not really, but I, like, I was more leaning towards that kind of aspect of like, this is how you can survive, like actually pay your bills and make art.

[Duncan Trussell]

But you just wanted to make art.

[Brian Cowen]

Just wanted to make art, right. And it took. I became an assistant for a really well known artist who, you know, ran a design firm, did fine art, did like, ran like, was just like at the top of his game. And I didn't go to art school, but I saw what he was doing. And a couple other artists like in the same area was like, okay, you're making paintings, you're working with these companies to do some design. That design money is going back into your art practice. It was just being able to see how something exists and then knowing, okay, I could do that. Right. We're already doing the same process. But here's the sort of market of it. Here's how, here's how you survive and here's how you continue to grow and thrive.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's how you become a professional.

[Brian Cowen]

How you become a professional. But yeah, I mean, for, if you're, you know, in fucking Wyoming somewhere, you might not have these people that you see, you might, you're so disconnected from a community, you might not know. And then you're like, well, I got to give this, this art thing up and you know, right, get a job because I got to pay bills. Because you just don't actually have the awareness that there is a pathway.

[Duncan Trussell]

And this is the failure of the school system because it never teaches kids that are artists or people that have alternative ways of existing in society that there's ways to make a career.

[Brian Cowen]

I got kicked out of the only art class I ever took in high school. This motherfucker. We had to draw a shoe or something and I turned mine into like a robot because I didn't like how the shoe was turning out. And he said, you have to draw a shoe or I'm failing you, I'm gonna kick you out of the class. You have to draw a shoe. And I'm just kick me out then. And I knew, like, you know, at 15, 16, that like, art is what I decided is that no, nobody else can say what the fucking rules are. Like this is for me to do. And now I forget his fucking. I wish I knew. I remembered his name and tell him to fuck off.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

There's a lot of those guys that turn people off. I had a high school art teacher turn me off to art too. He was just a dick. And then I found out that the most talented guy in the class, this kid John Devore, who I still contact every now and then, we talk on email. He was the most talented guy. He gave that guy an F. And I go, no. So it's like I hadn't communicated with John since I left art class, but we did a bunch of stuff together. We did a bunch of drawings together. And when do you ever draw it? No, not really. No. I do sometimes with my daughter. One of my daughters is really talented. I draw sometimes with her, but for the most part, no, it's interesting. I did a little drawing on vacation. We were drawing stuff together. It was fun, but, you know, I just don't have the time to get obsessed with it.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right now I'm obsessed with too many things and I have to.

[Joe Rogan]

I know.

[Duncan Trussell]

Manage my.

[Brian Cowen]

I'm still waiting for you to start golfing.

[Duncan Trussell]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Brian Cowen]

Putting is.

[Duncan Trussell]

No, no, no, no.

[Brian Cowen]

Putting his pool on an undulated warped table.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, I understand.

[Brian Cowen]

I'd be great at it.

[Duncan Trussell]

Listen, I know everybody that I know that I love who's into it is obsessed. And that's part of the problem. Yeah, it's like I know what's coming and I know it's like a multiple hour thing. You gotta dress like an. Wear stupid shoes.

[Brian Cowen]

You have to dress like an.

[Duncan Trussell]

And then I see all these fights where people are fighting on the golf courses. Do you see that drunken guy that got with a. With a hockey enforcer?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Throughout the. Threw the dude in the lake.

[Duncan Trussell]

First of all, the size of that guy, the fact that you're squaring up and you're just bluffing and you're squaring up with this.

[Brian Cowen]

That's one of those spots where people think they're way tougher because they got a bag full of clubs than they actually are. People get out of control. Well, it's just dudes, but it's so dumb.

[Duncan Trussell]

And it's drinking too. The guy was clearly hammered, and I think he made a video afterwards apologizing. Yeah, good, because he was just drunk. He's just drunk. And he got stupid, but he got stupid with. But that's what I always tell people. Like, don't get in fights. One day you're Gonna get in a fight with a guy who knows what he's doing, and you're gonna get up.

[Brian Cowen]

Imagine that fear, like when he got grabbed by that hockey player.

[Duncan Trussell]

He's got his jacket, he's just hair, whatever, with right hands.

[Brian Cowen]

What a nightmare. But, like, I hope he was like, wow, I really made a poor choice.

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Duncan Trussell]

At that time, he was just drunk as.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And probably thinking, I'm gonna get him back. Yeah, I'm gonna get him back.

[Brian Cowen]

Because I know what that fear feels like when somebody really fucking like, like, you know, in a gym scenario, somebody really grabs you and you're like, oh, there's nothing I could do right now. Like, I tapped to big Nog's side control. He squeezed me so hard, it felt like my ribs were gonna come out of my mouth.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, God.

[Brian Cowen]

And, you know, I was like a blue belt, maybe still a white belt. And I tapped to side control.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's crazy.

[Brian Cowen]

And I started thinking, well, what if he was punching me too?

[Joe Rogan]

You know?

[Duncan Trussell]

Also, he's way bigger than.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, he was massive.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, he's way bigger than you. The, the, the, the amount of pressure, if you're a really big person, you put down on a small person, it's really kind of unbearable.

[Brian Cowen]

But even somebody who's like my same, same weight or whatever like that when you really, like, I'm fucking wrapped up and like, if this person wanted to, they could end me right now.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, yeah. That was always the most eye opening to me when I would roll with guys who are 30, 40 pounds lighter than me and they just fucked me up.

[Brian Cowen]

And immediately I was like, I never want to act tough in public again ever. Like, that fear of like, yeah, if somebody, I, I got in. There was a guy who was. I was in like a time period where I was partying a lot. This guy was just being a dick to a bunch of people. Said something shitty to my friend, and I'm trying to walk away, and it just like my, my brain was just like, say something. And I was just like, why are you being a fucking dick? Like, you know, and he puffed up and started coming at me and like, he like swiped something out of my hand. And immediately my instincts kicked into jiu jitsu. I grabbed. He had like a, like a, like a flannel on. I grabbed his collar like a lapel, and I grabbed his wrist and just getting like, immediately I was just gonna throw him. And then like, the other voice in my head is like, the guy had a dog actually, who wasn't on leash, and I was like, if I throw this guy on his head right now and his dog runs in the street, I'm gonna feel a little guilty.

[Joe Rogan]

Guilty.

[Brian Cowen]

But I sensed in him that, you know, like, when a grappler, like, grabs your wrist, like, you feel it. It feels different than somebody else.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's someone who knows what they're doing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, immediately grab both and, like, put the squeeze on him. That I could read in his eyes, like, oh, that wasn't normal. And then I was like, no, no. Like, let go. And then he, like, walked away talking shit. And I.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's left.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Perfect.

[Brian Cowen]

And you know that. That's really rare for me. But it was like he had said something shitty to somebody. But to have somebody grab you like that, and the fear that can come with that.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

I would never want to experience that in real life.

[Duncan Trussell]

No.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, fucking horrifying.

[Duncan Trussell]

Street fights are stupid. They're terrible. And the people that know how to fight don't do them. They don't want anything to do with it. You should just go to a gym. Go to a gym if you have this desire. Did you see this video recently? I saw it yesterday. You guys make me think of it. What happened? This guy on top.

[Brian Cowen]

They're saying the guy in the bombs, a white belt.

[Duncan Trussell]

He gets choked out without the use of arms. It's all legs here. Gets put in the arm. Oh, this is so rude. Why is he doing this to a white belt? Well, I mean, they're training, I guess. I know, but it's so rude. That's for the. I would go to you guys being experts. Yeah. Oh, Eddie can do that.

[Joe Rogan]

Very rude.

[Duncan Trussell]

No. Well, it's kind of rude. Shake his head there. It's also. That guy is just training. He's just using that guy as a practice dummy. Yeah, triangles. It's kind of rude, but I mean, what do you want to happen if you roll with a white belt? Do you want them to win? Like, you want to let him win? No. Like, what do you do? Yeah, you tap them. You tell them what to do along the way. Like, you got to protect this arm. This arm's in a bad spot. Don't reach back like that because you open yourself up for the arm triangle. You got to tell them, T Rex, keep your arms in tight.

[Brian Cowen]

That's how I coach.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

When I'm training with somebody, like, I'm talking them through it. And I'll even. I'll do the thing where I tell them what I'm gonn do before I do it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

So that they can start to work out their defenses.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[Brian Cowen]

And like, get an idea.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, that's good.

[Brian Cowen]

Because as a black belt, like, you could beat everybody up. Like, that kind of loses some of its shine after a while.

[Duncan Trussell]

I think that guy was using that dude as just a training dummy. He was like, yeah, I could just work my.

[Brian Cowen]

He's just working on his legs.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Because if you can cinch up a triangle even on a white belt with no legs, at least you're getting reps in. No.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. And it probably makes it like somewhat more difficult.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's better than that dummy I have collecting dust in my gym.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Brian Cowen]

Dummy that doesn't fight every back at all. Just like slight resistance.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know what I do use, though? I use that Bubba dummy, you know that thing, the punching dummy. It's like the rubber.

[Brian Cowen]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. With the big.

[Duncan Trussell]

There's something good for that. Just target practice. It's good. You can't kick it too hard because it falls over. But if you. You can kick the face, you could slap the face.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And there's something about those that just. You want to kind of give them a little bit of the business.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, fuck you, Bob.

[Brian Cowen]

We have one sitting right next to our boxing ring in the gym. And I always post up and it's.

[Duncan Trussell]

Really good for practicing certain kicks. It's really good for question mark kicks because there's a shoulder element and you're. With a question mark kick, you're really trying to go over the shoulder.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like the Globe Fertosa, the Feitosa one. Globe Fertosa Feitosa had the absolute best question mark kick of all time. And his question mark kick would come down on you. It would go over the shoulders and just chop down.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And like the. That Bob dummy is great for practicing that. It's like the best thing for practicing because a bag is so straight, you know, the bag kicking down like that, it's like it's. You don't have a real target.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like you do with that Bob dummy. Because you're really trying to get the neck. You're really trying to go over the top and get that neck. Just.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Such a strange looking kick too.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, yeah. It works though, man. Yeah, that works. That works a lot because, like, you worry about that front kick to the guts. So you'll do this, you know, or you think a low kick is coming and then it comes over the top and by the time it's. You don't react is you can't React in time.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, you're already planning to get kicked in the leg, and by the time you figure it out, it's in your fucking ear.

[Duncan Trussell]

Exactly. And the guys that are good with, like, Luke Rockhold has a nasty one.

[Joe Rogan]

There's. Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Guys that are good with it, like, woof. Oof. It's just so sneaky. Over the top.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

That's another. Imagine just running into some Thai guy who you think you could throw around, fucking blast you with a fucking knee.

[Duncan Trussell]

Not only that, the trips, they're so good at tying up in the clinching and dumping people. People. Have you ever trained with, like, a guy who's, like, really good at tripping you?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

As soon as you tie up, whoops, your leg is up and you're like.

[Brian Cowen]

That'S what I always want to throw. Like, flying, like, ankle locks.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, that's the difference between, like, Muay Thai and Jiu jitsu. Because in jiu jitsu, okay, you threw me to the ground. Now it's just started.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Now I have a hold of your leg, then the referee's not gonna stand us up. I'm gonna break your knee.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like, you dumbass. You threw me down with an inside control. I have an inside hook.

[Brian Cowen]

It's like a fucking superpower, too, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

I'm so glad I found it. Like, I owe a lot to you, I think, like, the way you. You spoke of it, like, back then, to, like, even just to get into the gym, because that's the fucking hardest part. Like. Like crossing that door path and getting on the mat. Like, there's so many days you're gonna be like, I don't want to do that. Like, I don't feel like it. But as soon as you get there, it's, like, so worthwhile and so valuable.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. You just gotta force yourself to do it. And that's something I really owe to Eddie. Eddie is crazy, you know, like, creative and abstract as he is. He's super disciplined when it comes to his training. He was always, like, super, super disciplined.

[Brian Cowen]

Well, you can see it, like, my game is. Is very similar to, like, to Eddie's and, like, Lucas Lech, like that. Just wherever you can get a hold of the leg. Like, I pull. I like to pull to quarter guard. You know what I mean? Like, I like to play from there. And, like, I'm curious. I want to know how many people have the lockdown muscle in their fucking calf.

[Duncan Trussell]

I've got a lot.

[Brian Cowen]

No, there has to be there. Yeah, but I've never seen one and it's so fun.

[Duncan Trussell]

Get that tib bar, dog. Get that thing. Get that thing. It's trying to get the other one. You put, like, a little plate on it, and you lift. You lift with your foot. It's legit, man. You could do tib bar raises where you just stand on your heels and lean against the wall and just lift your foot up over and over and over again. That does it, too. Yeah, but the tib bar thing, you could do it with weight. That's it right there. Look at that sucker.

[Brian Cowen]

Oh, yeah, yeah, I have that.

[Duncan Trussell]

I use that every day. I have both of them.

[Brian Cowen]

I've been wanting my butterfly guard to get better, too.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, man. This will have a big impact on it. And you could also use it to do a leg extension. So you could do a leg extension, and then you could lift the foot at the top if you wanted to. So you could actually emulate.

[Brian Cowen]

That's funny.

[Duncan Trussell]

You actually do it from your back, now that I'm thinking about it. You could put one of those in on each leg, and you could lie down on your back, and you could. Specific. Yeah. And specifically work butterfly guard. There's so many cool ways to work out now. I know there's so many amazing people that have, like, figured out ways to protect your knees and protect your back and, you know, and help your shoulder stability and. And just. They give it away. They give it away online, like, it's. We have such an amazing resource available now for training. Like, think about, like, if you're a young guy, like, there's these guys that are coming up that have only been doing Jiu Jitsu for sure. Like Joseph Chen, like, only been doing Jiu Jitsu for a short amount of time, you know, like less than seven years, I think, and dominating all of a sudden. Why? Because he's obsessed and because he has all this information online.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You. You can watch so many instructionals. There's so many videos of guys pulling things off. You can rew. Watch it again, rewind it, watch again. Get together with your friend. Okay. Put your. No, put your hand on the left knee. Okay. And then when I push, you pull. And then watch that. Yeah, like, oh, that works.

[Brian Cowen]

And that takes so long if you're just doing it, like, in an organic, like, training way.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, for sure.

[Brian Cowen]

But the. The beauty, like, I. Like I came up with what a technique that I haven't seen or haven't done before that, like, it can. Everything continues to evolve, even as much as we've all trained the same shit for so long.

[Joe Rogan]

Like.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, there's still new avenues to explore. There's still room to be creative.

[Duncan Trussell]

Always. Well, that's one of the cool things that Eddie will do. Someone. Someone pulls something off and they have a thing. Eddie will go, show me that. Show me that. Everybody, check this out. And they'll have the whole class gather around. And then, like, tell me what you're doing. Talk me through the thing. What I like to do is I like to get mission control. And then I shovel this arm through and then I grip it like this and like, okay, try that. And everybody tries it. And then Eddie will go, dude, I'm. You're like, huh?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

All right, let me try to do it on you. Huh?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like, do it. Somebody try to get out of this. And then they'll try to, like, workshop it. Like, would it be better with this? Would it be better with that? Like, how did you get to this spot? Like, why did. Did you. Do you have a pathway that you take to get to this? Do you get to the spot all the time? Huh?

[Brian Cowen]

And that's so similar to your comedian sort of community, too. Like, you have that option.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, I think that's why I brought that to the comedy community, because that was always the way it was. In gyms, like in jiu jitsu and in kickboxing and taekwondo and Muay Thai. People teach you how to do stuff.

[Brian Cowen]

And it's so good for us as a culture, too, to interact with people who you may never interact with in your day to day life ever. To have that sort of community aspect. I feel like that draws a lot of people in outside of all the other benefits.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yes, there's a lot of community to it.

[Brian Cowen]

And it's. And it's such a, like, vast array of different types of people from every culture, from every sort of class level. And we all find a common equality, of course, with a hierarchy of experience. But we're all in the same boat together.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, that's the same with yoga. It's the same with a lot of things. Yeah, you know, it's just like you find a group of people that have also found this very productive, very beneficial thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Thing.

[Duncan Trussell]

Where you going, Marshy?

[Brian Cowen]

Hi, puppy.

[Duncan Trussell]

Marshall just woke up.

[Brian Cowen]

I saw your new puppy.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, he's adorable.

[Brian Cowen]

Jesus Christ.

[Duncan Trussell]

He's Marshall's new buddy. They're really fun together.

[Brian Cowen]

Is it a cocker spaniel?

[Duncan Trussell]

No, it's a King Charles spaniel. Okay, Marshy, give me a buddy show everybody. Come say hi to everybody. Come here, Come on, come on.

[Brian Cowen]

Such a Cutie.

[Duncan Trussell]

He's tired.

[Joe Rogan]

Long day.

[Brian Cowen]

You guys go running.

[Duncan Trussell]

Come on up. Not today. Today. Day. He just. Just came here to hang out. Yeah, he's the best. Golden retrievers are the absolute best dogs. They're just all love. They just. They would just want to cuddle with you, hang out with you, and they want to play, but the whole thing is just, like, be with you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

They're just our best. And he's sweet to everybody.

[Brian Cowen]

I wish they lived, like, 150 years.

[Duncan Trussell]

They live. If you're lucky. Well, he's on a really good diet. We're putting them on Farmer's dog now, changing his food. He was on the mave stuff, which is great, but he's on a raw food.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

That's what I was gonna ask you to do.

[Duncan Trussell]

The raw made a giant difference. Giant difference in the way he looks, the way his coat is.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Giant differences in his energy levels.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know? Well, it's also. It's like. They're just like people, man. If you have a person and you feed them nothing but processed food, they're gonna be sick.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Cereal every day.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. I mean, that stuff just sits on the counter forever. It sits on a shelf. You go to the pet food store, those bags are just sitting there. Like, any real food shouldn't be just sitting there like that. It's going to rot.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

So that means that food has nothing alive in it. You know, you got.

[Brian Cowen]

You got to give them the raw. The raw.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, like I said, you can cut it with the.

[Brian Cowen]

With the dry food.

[Duncan Trussell]

You don't need to. This. The. The way they have these, like, with farmer's dog and with the stuff that he's been eating. Maize, it comes with. It's, like, frozen, like, green beans and blueberries and potatoes and meat. Yeah. It's food.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And it just changes everything, man. They don't fart as much. Like, it's. It's so much better for them. They have way more energy. It's like they're her whole. His whole body composition changed.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

I love it when people, like, actually care. Like.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Their pet isn't just a. Like a decoration.

[Duncan Trussell]

No. Dogs are the best.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

They're.

[Joe Rogan]

They're.

[Duncan Trussell]

Your. Your life will be more loving if you have dogs. They're just always around. They're always cool. They're so consistent, and they. They have simple needs.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

They just want to be.

[Brian Cowen]

Unless unconditional. They're unconditionally loving.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

All the time.

[Duncan Trussell]

Unless you get a working dog and there's A lot of dummies out there that go and get a Belgian Malinois and not understand. Like, okay, yeah, they're great dogs, but you have. You have a responsibility now.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Because you don't have a regular dog. You have a super athlete.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You're living with, like, a canine race car.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's really what that is. Like, you. You can't just leave that in the yard.

[Brian Cowen]

You see those people that train those dogs, like.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Doing the little walk in between their legs as they're walking down. Like.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. My friend Anthony just got one. He just got one. He's sending me videos of the puppy. I'm like, oh, my God. This thing is like, bro, when they.

[Brian Cowen]

Jump, like, 25ft in the air, they fly, they run flips, and they run.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right up wall walls.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. There's.

[Brian Cowen]

Imagine one of those chasing you.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. It's hell. They're meat missiles. There's. This is. I'll send this to you. I sent it to. I sent it. I'll send it to Jamie, because I sent it to Brian Cowan. Because me and Brian Cowan are both retarded. And we talk about dogs all day long. We talk about, like, what's the coolest animal? But this video shows the difference between how a shepherd, a German shepherd, which is also a great dog, approaches something to the difference a Belgian Malinois does. Because. Have you seen it?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Jumping across the chairs and shit. Here, I sent it to you. It's nuts. Like, the. The shepherd runs around. He's like, I'm gonna find a way to get to that guy. I'm gonna go around this way. The Malmo runs over the chair. Watch this. Here's the shepherd. So the shepherd, he's going around. He's got to find the guy, and he gets to him. He bites him. Watch the Malinois now he. Let's do. Look at the fucking mal. Open top over every chair. It's like. Like, just so driven. They're so driven and so athletic, man. And it's not that a German shepherd's not athletic.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

But, like, in comparison, look at what this does, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

He just runs over these chairs. Insane. They're so athletic. So like, a dog. Like, that is not like Marshall. Like, Marshall is cool just hanging here. Chill. You got a Belgian mall that needs tasks. He's just like. It's basically like me.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like, you work him out, he's got to do things. You can't just have him sitting in the house. He'll go fucking crazy otherwise.

[Brian Cowen]

He's gonna be smoking crack back in the alleyway.

[Duncan Trussell]

He is ADHD in dog form. That's what a Belgian Malmo is like. You can't put him on Ritalin. You gotta exercise that little guy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

You gotta work that shit out.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, man. He needs. And it's like, if you have the time to do that, they're incredible dogs. Dogs. But it's like, you got to know what you're getting, you know? If you want a dog that just chills, get yourself a golden retriever. You want a family dog.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Kiss yourself a go. Or a lab. They're the best. They just chill.

[Brian Cowen]

I had a Boston terrier for a long time.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, they're sweet.

[Brian Cowen]

I haven't been able to get another dog since. Since he died. Like, it was, like, too draining. Too emotionally draining.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like, it's hard, man.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, it was like a family member, you know?

[Duncan Trussell]

It's hard, man. It's hard. I still get sad thinking about my dogs.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

That have died, but, you know, it's. There's loss and there's life. You just gotta appreciate them, why they're here.

[Brian Cowen]

And.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, I always love new ones, too. I love everybody's dogs. I love Carl. Carl's here today. He seems, like, a little calmer with Marshall today. Growing boy. He's growing. He's getting his together.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. He's just a puppy. Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

He's also listening when you tell him to stop. Now he's listening. He's listening. Listening.

[Brian Cowen]

Bulldogs are a special breed.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Especially the English ones. Like, they're just stubborn little pricks.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, they're gonna do what they want. I was watching a lady try to walk her two, like, young English bulldogs. This morning. They were walking her, like, and they'll put that little. You'll actually get it with the French bulldog when they put the brakes on, and they're like, we normally walk this way, but right now I'm going. I'm going that way.

[Duncan Trussell]

Exactly. I'm the boss.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Especially male dogs with their ball, they'll. They'll test you. He's never tested me once. Not once.

[Brian Cowen]

Never.

[Duncan Trussell]

Never growled. Never pretty. He's the best. He.

[Brian Cowen]

He.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, he barks at snowmen. In my neighborhood, in my neighborhood, this guy had a One of them inflatable snowman, and I'm taking him for a walk, and he sees, like. He's like, what the.

[Joe Rogan]

Is that?

[Duncan Trussell]

Is that a guy? Like, he. The form of it, whatever it was. And it was one of the inflatable ones, so it's kind of like Moving around, waving around. He's like, yo, what the. Is that. Is that a bear?

[Brian Cowen]

Like, yeah, I would love to jump in a dog's brain when they have those moments, right?

[Duncan Trussell]

Like a snowman. Freak out.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. Probably looks like a monster, bro.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's so funny, cuz. You know, cuz I'm relaxed and he's barking, I'm like, bro, trust me, I would. I'd be thanking you if that was.

[Brian Cowen]

He's looking back at you like, are we gonna fight this thing?

[Duncan Trussell]

Are you seeing this? That's a guy. Like, no, it's just. It's just an inflatable thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

But other than that, he never barks. He'll bark if he wants to be let in. That's it. He goes the door and just let out a little bark.

[Brian Cowen]

Bark.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Just let you know.

[Brian Cowen]

Hey, that's. Jamie and I were talking before. Like, it's very interesting how you start to communicate with your dogs and you start to understand what they need. And, like, over enough time, you'd, like, you have a silent communication, which is very, very peculiar.

[Duncan Trussell]

And he knows the difference between going for a hike and then come into the studio. He knows the difference. Yeah, he, like. He, like. You know, when he get. If we go somewhere and he's gonna go run, he's all amped up, and he gets out of the car, he gets here, he's like, hey, everybody's cool. What's up?

[Brian Cowen]

Air conditioning's on.

[Duncan Trussell]

He's ready to lie on his back and get pet.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's like, he's. He's the best.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Dogs are fucking amazing. We almost don't deserve them.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, it's just such a weird thing that we've done because they used to be wolves, and you can't train wolves. There's a reason why wolves aren't in the circus. Think about that. Think about that. You've got monkeys, bears, and tigers that you can train to do circus shows in front of everybody. You can't train a wolf. They won't listen.

[Brian Cowen]

But yet, somehow we pulled it up.

[Duncan Trussell]

A wolf into a dog that, like, literally listens to everything I say.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

That guy will say, sit down, buddy. Relax. And he'll just sit.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know. All right, you ready to go? He's like, I'm ready. And he just gets up and goes like. It's like, how did that happen?

[Brian Cowen]

And the fact that they have that, like, super gene that they. They could transform into so many different variations.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[Brian Cowen]

Of the same thing through selection.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. That's what's weird. Like selective breeding, where you could turn a dog into Carl. Like, you have enough time. You can turn a mastiff into this tiny little thing. Yeah, you just need enough time and enough different select genes. And finally, this female is a little smaller. Let's breed her with a smaller male. And this one has a shorter snout. Like, how are they even?

[Joe Rogan]

How.

[Duncan Trussell]

What'd you do? How'd you get a Chihuahua?

[Brian Cowen]

From a wolf.

[Duncan Trussell]

A wolf? You know, they didn't even. They weren't even sure of that until, like, I don't know, 20 years ago.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Duncan Trussell]

They didn't know. They thought they came from wild dogs. And. Yeah, when they started sequencing the genome, they're like, what?

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, it's exactly the same.

[Duncan Trussell]

These are all wolves. Like, they kind of thought probably a lot of them came from wolves. Like huskies and shit like that. Yeah, like. No, all of them.

[Brian Cowen]

That sort of symbiosis is really interesting, too, like how plants. Like, we have that symbiosis with plants and like. Like certain plants who have followed our evolutionary line down the way or, you know, like, we get connected to these. I think sometimes we forget that we're still a natural part of the environment.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, how weird is it that plants literally put their seeds in the middle of delicious fruit.

[Joe Rogan]

Fruit.

[Duncan Trussell]

So that we will it out and that shiv will act as a fertilizer and help it grow.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

It's wild.

[Duncan Trussell]

What a crazy. Not only that, but if you eat the seeds, they're bad for you, but.

[Brian Cowen]

If you swallow cyanide in it.

[Duncan Trussell]

So it's like evolutionary design evolutionarily designed for you to just pass it through your digestive tract whole.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Just swallow them.

[Brian Cowen]

Or even the fact that it's the certain color that reminds us of a flavor that, like, a certain color looks delicious.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And all it's doing is tricking us into eating it to shit it somewhere.

[Duncan Trussell]

And allow itself to a certain color that looks poisonous.

[Brian Cowen]

Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

So you're scared of it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, I was watching this video the other day of a spider that makes a decoy spider and puts it in its.

[Brian Cowen]

How it's building a sculpture, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And it looks like a fucking spider.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Which is really crazy. So how does a spider even know what a spider looks like? And how did it develop.

[Brian Cowen]

Doesn't have a mirror, Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

How did it develop this ability to make a sculpture out of its own webbing? Like, look at this. That's crazy, man. I mean, that's really crazy. It's making a decoy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

I mean, like, those Caterpillars that look like they have a snake or whatever.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. Or mantises. You ever see mantis that make it look like their, their arms are giant teeth? They put their, their arms together like ridges and they make it look. They have a giant mouth.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Such a fucking bizarre.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's, that's the wild thing about evolution. It's like how what is the entire process that allows something to develop where when the, the moth opens its wings, it looks like eyeballs.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like, what is that?

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, just life is really good at reproducing itself.

[Duncan Trussell]

How do you get a Venus fly trap where a plant tricks you into coming into the center of this trap and then it eats flies nuts, the whole thing.

[Brian Cowen]

I mean, that's why you gotta, like, find some joy in it. Find, like, find a little, you know, entertainment in how fucking bizarre everything is. We get so wrapped up in our day to day, in our just getting by, like just having the moment to be.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like, wasn't that a part of a problem with working really hard too? Like, you, you know, you don't see the forest for the trees.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And you can get caught up in whatever the fuck you're doing and like, forget like, God, the world is pretty amazing.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. The whole thing is so fucking bizarre.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And I, you know, we're, we try so hard to back, like we know it all too, to just leave some room for some, some mystery is.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

So important.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, people are weird, man. And there's no real good working manual of how to live life.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, there's, there's no right way. There's no right way. Like, any advice anybody tries to give you, they're only working on their own experience.

[Duncan Trussell]

Especially when you're trying to pick a weird career.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like, like an artist.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like good luck. Or a comedian or an MMA fighter or anything. Like you want to do that. It's like, who are you going to even ask?

[Brian Cowen]

You got to find what you love and literally just go for it. Like. And I, I, I know there's a sort of like, okay, you got kids, you got a mortgage. I get it, you know, like, like I've hustled all kinds of different ways to make sure I continue on the process, you know, on the path. But like, yeah, it's very different if.

[Duncan Trussell]

You have people that you're taking care of and those responsibilities are paramount.

[Brian Cowen]

Then sometimes maybe that reward system that you would get from something else maybe comes from that 100%.

[Duncan Trussell]

100%. But what we're saying is that like, as you are listening to this. If you're going on your journey into life and you think you might be going in a safe direction, that it's going to make money versus the direction that you really want to go to ask yourself how bad you really want it. Like, what do you want to do with your life? Do you want your life to be really fun? Do you want your life to be really rewarding, where you wake up and you're excited about what you do? Or do you want every day to be a grind? Do you want every day to be like, you can't wait to get off, off so you can get a cocktail, so you can calm down? Because you hated. You hate everybody in the office, and everybody treats everybody like the boss is a dick. And you just get home, you just want to drink and watch Netflix. Like, you got to decide. You gotta decide. And he's gonna. You're gonna have to take some drastic steps, and you're probably gonna have a lot of doubt, especially if you're doing something weird, like if you want to be an artist or you want to be a comedian, like.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's a long road that doubt fuels.

[Brian Cowen]

It can handcuff you and make you stop, but it can also push you to go further.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, that's where doing something else, that's difficult. So you know that you can do difficult things really comes in handy. And that's what I always preach about Jiu Jitsu.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

I think Jiu jitsu, above all of them, is the one that you can do the most and you get the most out of it. And you can get hurt for sure. And I've been hurt a bunch of times, don't get me wrong. But it's a different kind of hurt than sparring. The hurt that you get from kickboxing and, you know, that you were talking about from Muay Thai, it's different. You can't do that every day. You can't. You can't spar every day. You get hurt.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you get.

[Duncan Trussell]

Your brain gets beaten up. Your. Your nose gets up where you can't breathe out of it anymore. It's just. You don't want that kind of hurt. It's too debilitating. And it could fuck with you for the rest of your life in terms of, like, just literally the way you think, which was always the scariest thing for me. I remember when I was thinking about stopping fighting, it was like. Because I was lying in bed at night with headaches.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

From sparring days.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And I was like, what am I Doing to my brain, like, this is the only thing that I have that's going to help me decide how to get through life. It's the only thing that I have.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And once you start meeting people that you know are compromised, meeting people that you know have brain damage, like.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

You're starting to see it, man. Like, I think people who have been fighters their whole life, you know, starting to see a lot of that like go to the CTE or whatever the football players were dealing with. And like how big of an effect. I mean, head trauma is so, so damaging.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yep.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, and the way that it could show itself in so many different ways.

[Duncan Trussell]

And like gambling addiction.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Drug addictions, depression, even like manias, like.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, like hallucinations, you know, I, I feel like it almost transforms people into like, like waking nightmares sometimes for some people. Sure. To where it's like that feeling of like, you know, like you see somebody, but there's somebody else.

[Duncan Trussell]

Exactly.

[Brian Cowen]

Right. Like there's so many, many like aspects that like just end up destroying your, your normal day to day life. It's yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

It up their hormones, it up everything and you know, yet it makes for this insanely attractive sport to watch.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And they love it. Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

They're not doing it out.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You got to know when to get out. And that's what's hard.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And really the hardest thing is that they don't have anything else because in order to be really good at something like fighting, you have to dedicate your entire life to it. It has to be everything about your waking moment.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And when it's not, and it's just a job, that's when it gets fucking dangerous because those guys get really fucked up a lot of the time.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah. When you have to get the next fight to, to keep the fucking train rolling.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. And then you have a family and like you realize like you don't have any savings.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And so then to quit, like what are you gonna do? How are you gonna generate, you know, if you're fighting and you're making 250, $300,000 a year fighting three or four times a year. Like how are you gonna replace that with a regular job?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You're not. You don't have any skills. Like all of your skills are on how to fuck people up.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

So what are you gonna do? You gonna teach? You could teach maybe. Especially if you're real technical.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

But that's not gonna give you the same quality of life or like the, you know, it could eventually.

[Duncan Trussell]

I mean, there's some guys that make a lot of money off of teaching.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure.

[Brian Cowen]

You know, it's kind of rare, though.

[Duncan Trussell]

I mean, we have to be really good. Yeah, yeah, you have to be really.

[Brian Cowen]

Good because, like, be franchising.

[Duncan Trussell]

There's a lot of demand, you know, like, you could, if you're an Eddie. Bravo, you can teach seminars, and you have a bunch of affiliates in a bunch of schools.

[Brian Cowen]

But he's in the top, you know, 5%.

[Duncan Trussell]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

You know.

[Duncan Trussell]

Exactly. For most people, it's a grind.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And so, I mean, I teach. I. I was telling Zach, like, to me, Jiu Jitsu is like a parasite. And it got in me.

[Joe Rogan]

Me.

[Brian Cowen]

And now it's trying to find other hosts. Like, I. I literally am just trying to share, but it's like, it's. It's like Jiu Jitsu's forcing me to share it, regurgitating it into some other host so that it can regurgitate itself.

[Duncan Trussell]

And somebody else, but it's a beneficial parasite. Don't you think that teaching helps your Jiu Jitsu, though?

[Brian Cowen]

A million percent. Like, I. I show all of my students all of my tricks so that when I try to use my tricks on them, it stops working.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And then I have to evolve the trick or, like, create other little smoke screens and diversions to get to the spot that I need to get. Because they know, and I. I like to. I'll show stuff that I don't normally do, but a majority of my curriculum is stuff that I do that I know works, that I know all the ins and outs of. I know every little detail of how you get to the spot, like what you do, what you do, if they do A, B or C. And that's what I share. And as I do that, like, I notice little techniques not working anymore.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, don't you think it's also. As you explain the techniques to people, it tightens up your own understanding of the techniques and makes you better at it.

[Brian Cowen]

Thousand percent. Because you have to think of it and it. Like, a lot of times our movements are muscle memory. Right. We don't really consciously think too much about it because we've done it a thousand times where it's like, I do this, then I do this, then I do that.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Brian Cowen]

And you don't think about it. But when you have to show somebody.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

You have to think about all those things that you never think about. Help explain it to somebody who doesn't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

And get them to grasp it.

[Duncan Trussell]

I've seen that time and time again in Jiu Jitsu, where a guy's pretty good and he starts teaching, like, coaching, like beginners, one on one, private lessons and stuff to make some extra money. And next thing you know, he's a killer. Yeah, it's like, wow, that's. It's. I think that's a missing part of the key to development is teaching.

[Brian Cowen]

I think. I'm honestly surprised when others don't want to do the same. Like, I never, like, I never gatekeep techniques. Like, I. If I see something that I think will work, like, I honestly think I'm a much better coach than I am a Jiu Jitsu practitioner. Like, I'm horrible at competing. Like, sometimes I just be like, okay, I'm just gonna stay here until I kind of have a room to get out. I don't have to try too fucking hard. But I can see the game much better in my students. And like, my gym, Steel MMA is a little bit of like a ragtag sort of like Bad News Bears kind of gym because there's so many high level competitive gyms in San Diego.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

But we go to all the local tournaments and we get on the fucking on the podium.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's cool.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, that's very cool. And we're not.

[Duncan Trussell]

San Diego is a tough place for Jiu Jitsu, dog. Yeah, you got fucking Jocko's place down there. Barrett Yoshida's down there. How many people isn't Was Hoyler had a school down there?

[Brian Cowen]

Hoyler's still in San Diego. He actually gave the guy who was the purple belt who threw me on my head that I was talking about earlier. He got his black belt from Hoyler. Atos is there.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, yeah, that's right. That's right. What a hotbed of Jiu Jitsu.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, it's like little fucking Brazil.

[Duncan Trussell]

Isn't that funny? Like California, especially, like during the UFC's growing period, became one of the biggest hotbeds of Jiu Jitsu in the world.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, they all went there.

[Duncan Trussell]

They all went there because they could surf.

[Brian Cowen]

Yeah, you could surf.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, probably like climate wise, fairly similar.

[Duncan Trussell]

Fairly similar. And then a ton of population to draw from to get students.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Especially in that LA area where it's like people were already kind of like into Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris and.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Brian Cowen]

And then, you know, you see hoist just fucking freak everybody out. I mean, I watched all those early fights as a kid. I had a friend's dad who, like, would always get the pay per view.

[Duncan Trussell]

That'S another thing about Austin. We have so many Jiu Jitsu gyms here now. You know, Gordon has his place now. B team has their place. You've got Gracie Bajas here. You got Shanji Ribeiro's here. Everybody's here. There's, like, so many different gyms here. There's multiple 10th planets here. You know, there's. There's. Gabe just opened up a 10th planet in Bastrop. There's a 10th planet right down in. In this area, there's a 10th planet. There's like three or four 10th planets. Yeah, I think there's at least three.

[Brian Cowen]

And they're all packed, right?

[Duncan Trussell]

Packed?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's like there's so many people that are interested in it because, you know, it really does work. It really helps you, and not just works like as a martial art, to learn how to defend yourself. It's a vehicle for understanding yourself better. It helps you in everything you do, as long as you just do it smart and don't get hurt.

[Brian Cowen]

Exactly. That's like me trying to get up when I. My neck was pinched. Like that was Jiu Jitsu.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

Like, I use it in so many aspects of my life. Life, like, it's such a. Such a beautiful, weird little sport.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yes, sir.

[Brian Cowen]

Lifestyle.

[Duncan Trussell]

Mike Maxwell. I'm glad you came in.

[Brian Cowen]

Joe Rogan.

[Duncan Trussell]

Thank you for having me on, my brother. Tell everybody where they could find you.

[Brian Cowen]

Online, mikemaxwart.com and all the social medias are at Mike Maxwell Art, my gallery in Santa Monica's BG Gallery. And I got a gallery out in New Orleans, Mortal Machine. You can find my stuff out there.

[Duncan Trussell]

And is it all on Mike Maxwell Art. Art, yeah.

[Brian Cowen]

You can find all that.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay. Beautiful.

[Joe Rogan]

All right, brother.

[Duncan Trussell]

Thank you.

[Joe Rogan]

Thank you. I appreciate you.

[Duncan Trussell]

My man. All right, bye, everybody.