#2371 - Fedor Gorst

Summary

The Joe Rogan Experience #2371 – Fedor Gorst

Release Date: August 27, 2025
Host: Joe Rogan
Guest: Fedor Gorst (World Champion Pool Player)

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Overview

This episode spotlights the world of professional pool through the lens of current world number one, Fedor Gorst. Joe Rogan and Fedor dive into the ever-evolving competitive landscape, training regimes, the mental gymnastics of playing under pressure, the sport’s global growth, generational shifts in pool’s culture, and the role of money and gambling at the highest level. They also discuss the sport’s surging popularity in Asia, equipment innovations, and what it takes to maintain champion status.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Fedor’s Hectic Schedule and Recent Tournaments

• Fedor narrowly missed a back-to-back US Open title and recently lost in the World Championships final in Saudi Arabia.
  • [00:41] “Dude, you came that close to being two year in a row US Open champion. That close.” — Joe Rogan
  • Fedor discusses playing four tournaments back-to-back over a month and being on the road constantly.
  • [00:46] “How’s it go? I mean, I feel super tired because my schedule has been hectic lately.” — Fedor Gorst

Evolving Standards and Difficulty in Modern Pool

• Rogan asserts that today’s elite are the best ever, due to tighter equipment and competitive standards.
  • [02:55] “The pockets are four inches… it’s really tight conditions and I think there’s better players now than I’ve ever seen in my life.” — Joe Rogan
• Fedor agrees and explains how rules and breaking formats keep evolving.
  • [03:28] “The game changed even in the last three years, I think… we changed the breaking formats.” — Fedor

Social Media, Filmmaking, and Pool’s Modern Visibility

• Gorst is followed everywhere by a filmmaker for content and notes the sport is booming on social media.
  • [05:08] “Pool is booming on social media… I do my own social media. I have a filmmaker…” — Fedor
• Both praise Matchroom and WNT for growing the game globally with improved broadcasts and online content.
  • [04:46] “They are elevating the game for sure. And they are the reason why pool is where it’s at today…” — Fedor

Pool Culture, Nationality, and Politics

• Fedor faced challenges due to his Russian nationality, including bans and rule changes post-2018 and post-war, but eventually became eligible to represent the USA in the Mosconi Cup.
  • [14:41] “Cool thing about America is that it’s a nation of immigrants.” — Joe Rogan
  • Fedor shares how he received both support and criticism as an immigrant player and the complexities of identity in international pool.

The Psychology, Pressure, and Process of Elite Play

• Discussing intense competitive pressure, Fedor details the emotional and physical strain and his methods for maintaining performance:
  • [17:19] “Your bridge is shaking sometimes. Your backhand is shaking sometimes. And you just gotta manage it.” — Fedor
  • [18:22] “How do you not like watching someone play perfect? That’s crazy.” — Joe Rogan
• Both examine how modern players’ methodical styles are sometimes criticized as “robotic,” but perfection and repeatability reign supreme.
• Pool’s mental game: visualization, managing nerves, pre-shot routines, and handling negative thoughts.
  • [85:43] “I do a lot of breathing…to calm myself down.” — Fedor
  • [89:16] “My biggest demon in my head is, I’m just scared to miss the ball… So my thing is just telling to my brain that I have to stay positive: No, I’m gonna make this ball.” — Fedor

Equipment Innovations: Cues, Shafts, Breaks, and Jump Shots

• Deep dive into cue technology (carbon fiber vs. wood, shaft taper, balance), break technique evolution, and the explosion of jump cues.
  • [71:09] “You put it in the brain computer after X amount of months of playing with that cue. And you know what it does.” — Joe Rogan
  • [82:57] “You jumped out so many times during this U.S. Open…” — Joe Rogan
  • [83:19] “It’s what gets actually new people to watch it because it’s exciting…It’s amazing trick shot.” — Fedor
• Gorst previews his own forthcoming jump cue line.

Gambling: From Pool Halls to Global Streams

• Examining the role of gambling culture and how televised high-stakes matches and marathon sessions are now mainstream.
  • [29:37] “That’s the part of the game that has always been the most romantic, the gambling part…that’s not the case anymore.” — Joe Rogan
  • [30:41] “My gambling days are over and now I’m a tournament player.” — Fedor

Health, Longevity, and Routine in Professional Pool

• Fedor shares routines for injury prevention: stretching, resistance bands, cold plunges, and avoiding weightlifting which “ruins touch.”
  • [34:46] “I do have the cold plunge at home… Sauna and all the good stuff.” — Fedor

Pool’s Global Growth and Social Change

• Explosive boom in Vietnam and China, casino-style pool venues, and the hybridization of pool with technology (projectors, AR games).
  • [97:58] “Vietnam right now is probably the most pool playing country in the world.” — Fedor
  • [98:12] Fedor recounts 2,000 pool rooms in Hanoi alone and his large Vietnamese online following.
• Debate about whether similar cultural shifts could happen in America, given differences in bar-centric culture.

Gender, Inclusivity, and Youth Development

• Discussing regulation of breaking power relative to gender and age, open tournament formats, the role of speed/radar guns as proposed innovations.

Prize Money, Gambling, and the Spectacle

• The effect of Saudi prize pools, increasing purses, and speculation about what the sport could look like with boxing-style money.
  • [51:21] “First place $250,000…25 million would be better.” — Rogan

Doping, Scandal, and Integrity

• Doping bans and match-fixing scandals: Fedor explains their impacts and how they remain unique to lower-paying environments, while also touching on gambling and the risk of corruption.

Lifestyle of a Champion: Sacrifice, Obsession, and Family Balance

• Grueling travel schedules, personal relationships, and the often obsessive demands of practice.
  • [61:02] “To get really good at pool, you kind of have to be a piece of ****.” — Joe Rogan (summarizing the total commitment and focus needed)
  • [64:41] “It’s driving me crazy. But I just can’t stop.” — Fedor

Generational Shift: Old School vs. New School

• Compared the gambling-oriented, hard-living, barroom pool of the past to the new generation’s disciplined, health-focused approach.
  • [43:04] “It used to be just a game played at the bar. Now it’s a sport.” — Fedor

Mindset, Visualization, and Mental Training

• Both agree the “most mental” game in sports is pool, and discuss pre-shot routines, focus cues, and beating the fear of missing.
  • [92:38] “Visualization is really big for us. For example, you’re never going to win the tournament without believing that you can actually win it.” — Fedor
  • [94:43] “When you’re really playing pool, the world goes away… That’s what I like about archery and that’s what I like about pool. They have the same quality…” — Joe

Notable Quotes About the Game

• [03:00] “I’ve never seen better players than play today. And I think you’re the best today. So in my book that makes you the best of all time.” — Joe Rogan
• [02:03] “The Filipinos put kicking on the map, right?” — Joe Rogan
• [75:28] “You almost don’t get no feedback [from carbon fiber queues].” — Fedor
• [94:43] “When you’re on that table…the world goes away.” — Joe

Fun Moments & Notable Exchanges

• Stories about undercover disguises and makeup in pool halls ([07:00]), and connection to CIA special effects and comedy parodies.
• Rogan defending Gorst’s “robotic” style—[17:44] “Those people are assholes. Those people are assholes if they think your style is boring.”
• A long tangent on Russian gangster rap and pre-match hype-up music ([109:29]).
• Playfully exposing pronunciation disputes over Fedor’s name:
  • [138:45] “Some people say Fedor, some people say Fedora, but in Russian, is it Fyodor?” — Joe
  • [138:54] "Fyodor." — Fedor
• Rogan joking about how much pool content might bore non-pool listeners ([96:32]).

The Fedor Gorst–Joshua Filler Showdown? (The Next Big Thing)

• Mass interest in a potential high-stakes match, negotiations for multi-discipline contests, and what draws online vs. in-person crowds.
• [79:33] “Half a million’s a lot.” — Rogan on the proposed stakes
• [138:08] “Let’s set up that filler match.” — Fedor
• [138:10] “Yeah, man, I’ll do commentary. How about that? Get Matchroom involved…” — Joe

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamps (MM:SS) | |-------------|-----------------------| | History of Efren Reyes, Filipino Pool, and Legendary Shots | 00:12–02:22 | | Gorst’s 2025 Schedule, Modern Pool Conditions | 00:41–03:42 | | Rule/Etiquette Evolution: Breaks, Social Media, Broadcast | 03:42–06:07 | | Nationality, Political Impact on Pro Pool | 12:15–15:08; 34:00–34:46 | | Pool’s Mental Challenges, Mindset | 17:09–22:24; 84:00–94:43 | | Prize Money, Gambling Culture | 29:37–32:13; 51:00–55:36 | | Training, Back Health, Routine | 32:31–34:46 | | Innovation in Cues and Equipment | 69:35–77:24 | | Rise of Pool in Asia, Especially Vietnam/China | 97:39–101:47 | | High-Stakes Matches, Negotiations, Joshua Filler | 78:29–81:42; 124:31–132:44 | | Pool as a Sport, New Generation | 43:04–44:27; 132:44–137:02 | | Fedor’s Pre-Shot Routine, Mental Rehearsal | 85:43–89:16 | | Name Pronunciation, Language, Fame | 138:45–116:07 |

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Memorable Quotes

• Joe Rogan:

  • “If you’re the best player in the world today, you’re the best player of all time.” [01:20]
  • “When you’re really playing pool, the world goes away. That’s what I like about archery and that’s what I like about pool. They have the same quality...” [94:43]
  • “Pool is like an art form that only the people that practice it can appreciate.” [46:07]

• Fedor Gorst:

  • “It’s really tough to be dominant in our sport. Almost impossible.” [65:04]
  • “Visualization is really big for us…you’re never going to win the tournament without believing that you can actually win it.” [92:38]
  • “I just can’t stop. I just can’t stop.” [64:42]

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Final Thoughts

This episode is an in-depth, passionate exploration of professional pool from both an insider and a lifelong fan’s perspective. Fedor Gorst stands as a representative of pool's new era: disciplined, cosmopolitan, hyper-competitive, and attuned to both social media and global change. Rogan provides both admiration and context, ensuring even non-pool listeners come away appreciating the sport’s complexity and allure.

If you’re already deep into the game, it’s a goldmine. If you’re pool-curious, you’ll finish with new respect for what it takes to stand atop the world’s green baize.

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Transcript

[A]

Joe Rogan Podcast. Check it out.

[B]

The Joe Rogan Experience.

[A]

Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[B]

We're up. Yeah, this. A company called M Theory sent this to me. And this was when Efren Reyes snuck into America under the nickname Cesar Morales.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And won some big tournament at Reds, wherever that is.

[A]

Probably in Chicago.

[B]

I don't know. Put the headphones on, dog.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

I was like, you don't have to. Or we could not have headphones. Do they feel weird to you?

[A]

That's good. No, no, no. That's good.

[B]

You're okay. I don't care. It doesn't matter. It's just good if, like, we show a video or something like that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Dude, you came that close to being two year in a row US Open champion. That close.

[A]

Yeah. How's it go? I mean, I feel super tired because my schedule has been hectic lately.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I played the world championships in Saudi, where I also lost in the finals.

[B]

Did you play the Florida Open, too?

[A]

Florida Open. I played the tournament in between that. So basically I played back to back to back to back four events.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It's been over a month already. You know, staying on the road, constantly playing.

[B]

Dude, this is the real good argument. You're the best player in the world, and if you're the best player in the world, I think you are. You got my vote. If you're the best player in the world today, you're the best player of all time.

[A]

Well, I mean, it's really tough, too.

[B]

A lot of old guys talk a lot of shit, but I'm just saying, always, I mean, this guy on my shirt, he certainly gets the, like, as far as, like, the greatest of all time, most achievements of all time. Effront, the Z shot, like, all the crazy stuff that he could pull off of the cue ball.

[A]

Did you see the shot that I made recently?

[B]

Which one?

[A]

The three rail kick.

[B]

I did see that. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it is tougher. It is a tougher kick. It wasn't as. It wasn't as. You know, the situation wasn't like, it was a hill heel that he played against Earl, you know, final. So it's. Obviously, it's a much, much different environment, but the kick that I made was sick.

[B]

It was pretty sick. Well, you know what? The Filipinos put kicking on the map, right?

[A]

Oh, for sure. They're the best.

[B]

Efren, when he came over here, they changed the whole game. Jose Parika was really good at it, too.

[A]

Carlo B. I don't know the best kicker.

[B]

So good. It's, it's amazing.

[A]

Yeah, that's the one. That's the one good thing I have filmmaker traveling with me everywhere, filming me now.

[B]

That's a crazy shot.

[A]

Yeah, I actually lost that match to Duan Kwok. Almost made shape on the two bolt two.

[B]

Yeah, that's what's horrible. When you make an amazing shot and then lose the match.

[A]

Yeah, that's how it goes.

[B]

Yeah. Look, it's a crazy game. And the game that you guys are playing right now, the reason why I said I think if you're the best player today, you're the best player of all time because the conditions are very different for people who don't know, who don't play pool. Okay. If you're going to a regular bar and you're playing on like a bar table, those pockets might be five and a half inches.

[A]

Well, also in us people are playing on seven foot tables versus we play a bar.

[B]

They're nine foot tables and the pockets are four inches. And so when you get two cue balls, you try to put them next to each other and try to stick. You can't even get close to sticking them in a 4 inch pocket. It's really tight conditions and I think there's better players now than I've ever seen in my life. And I've been watching pool for 35 years and playing pool for 35 years. I've never seen better players than play today. And I think you're the best today. So in my book that makes you the best of all time.

[A]

Well, like you said, the conditions are completely different. The game changed even in the last three years, I think the game changed drastically. Yeah, you know, we went, we changed the breaking formats. It used to be one ball on the spot with the magic crack, no three point rule.

[B]

So all the people at home that don't play pool go, what the fuck talking about? We're talking about professional pool, ladies and gentlemen.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. We have all kinds of little, little rules.

[B]

Yeah. The nine ball on the spot made a big difference, right?

[A]

Yeah. Break box.

[B]

Yeah. When you were showing me today how to break that way, I was like, oh, that's crazy. Like you have to hit it with draw and you have to aim towards the back ball. Like wow.

[A]

Yeah, well we, we can't really say that. Oh yeah, the others, the others, the others. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. It's an insanely competitive game now and, and shout out to Matchroom. Right. Because Matchroom with Dazn, they've done an amazing job with Boxing and a bunch of other sports. But what they're doing with pool is crazy.

[A]

It's.

[B]

There's so many events and it's all over. You can get it on the world nine ball tour. It's WNT tv, right?

[A]

Yeah. So I think they moved from dozen to that to their subscription type.

[B]

Amazing. It's amazing. And then there's also their Matchroom Pool YouTube channel, which has tons of stuff on it for free.

[A]

They are elevating the game for sure. And they are the reason why pool is where it's at today, you know, versus where it was five years ago, I think. Yeah, it's huge.

[B]

I have friends who send me videos now. Like, people just randomly find videos on TikTok or on Instagram.

[A]

You know, pool is booming on social media. And, you know, I. I do my own social media. I have a filmmaker that follows me everywhere. We, you know, try to film as much stuff.

[B]

It was very funny what you did in New York City or in Atlantic City, rather, when you went to that pool and you went under skies.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was Metro. Metro's idea. I think it was pretty che. Cheap budget. We could do it a lot better, especially when we go to Asia, I think.

[B]

You know, you can't sneak around any.

[A]

Pool hall if you put me and make me look like a grandpa or something.

[B]

Okay. You know, like, you'd have to get into disguise.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Well, the disguises are really good today. Have you ever seen those CIA disguises that they use? So apparently this is a story. Apparently. And this was told to me by someone who I really trust. Obama was having a meeting with someone in one of the rooms in the White House, and he's in the middle of having this meeting with someone who he's met before and had conversations with before. And then they inform him, Mr. President, we just want to let you know this is not who you think you're talking to. And we just wanted to demonstrate how good the special effects makeup is and masks are. This is not that person. And he was like, what now? I haven't confirmed this. I. I don't have Obama's number. Well, I'm like, where I can call him up and go, bro, is that real? Yeah, but I believe it's real because I've seen up close, like, really ins. Like when Tony Henchcliffe does kill Tony, sometimes they have makeup artists that dress people up and make them different people. Like they did a Biden one and Kyle Dunnigan played Elon Musk. And I didn't even recognize Him. I was like, who's this guy? Like, this is. This is weird guy. Like acting weird and like, that's done. Again. Playing Elon Musk, I was like, no way. Right in front of him. I thought it was just some. Didn't look like Elon Musk looked like a weird guy, but it didn't look like him. And it looked like a person. It didn't look like a guy in makeup. It didn't look like a mask. It looked like a real person. That just was weird looking. I was like, this is crazy.

[A]

Yeah, that's what we should do. And I think it's going to be really, really good if we do that in Asia, like Vietnam or Philippines.

[B]

You got to work on that voice, though, son. You know, Russia all day with that voice.

[A]

I know, I know. I can only be like an undercover. I don't know. Yeah, somebody from.

[B]

And for people that at home, go. How could he be the number one in the world if he just lost? Aloysia Siap should be the number one in the world. He should be the number one of all time. It's like long races are really what's up, right?

[A]

Well, it's by the rankings. I'm number one by the rankings. And what we have now with Metro, it's two years of prize money combined throughout all the tournaments.

[B]

But I think the real matches that you play, where you really get to see who's the best. And this is only for like hardcore pool nerds. The real ones, like the one you did with Shane was like three days race to 40 each day, 120 games total.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

That way there's no questions.

[A]

No.

[B]

After three days and 120 games of pool, you know, possibly 239 games of pool.

[A]

That's how I almost won the first time we played. Really? I lost. I lost the first time.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I lost 120 to 116. I was down and up, up and down. And last day I was up by almost 15 games. I remember. And he came back and beat me.

[B]

Yeah, it was super impressive. But it was even more impressive you coming back the next year and steamrolling them. Like, you won by quite a few games. How many did you win by?

[A]

By 42, I think.

[B]

42 games is crazy. Yeah, that's crazy.

[A]

20 to 78. I think that's. That was a score.

[B]

And that was for. Did you advertise how much that money was being? We were gambled.

[A]

Well, we were advertising that it was for 50, but it was a little bit more.

[B]

So you had a bunch of other people chumming in, throwing money in.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, myself included.

[B]

So you don't want to say the actual total?

[A]

I don't know. Okay. Are we allowed?

[B]

I don't know. I mean, unless you're lying to the irs, which as a new citizen, I would say don't do that.

[A]

So, yeah, we'll play for 50.

[B]

Oh, no. You're gonna get in trouble.

[A]

You.

[B]

You. I don't think. You were a citizen last time you were here, right?

[A]

No, I'm not a citizen now. I have a permanent rescue when this.

[B]

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[A]

I think you have to be a permanent resident for five years, and then you can apply if you follow certain rules. Like you have to stay in the US for six out of six months of the year out of the calendar year, each year.

[B]

Well, you better stay away from Home Depot, because those dudes are getting crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're snatching people up left and right.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. No, I think. I think I do everything right. You know, I pay my taxes. I follow all the rules.

[B]

Well, you got to play. That's weird that you. If you're not a citizen, but still you get to play for the Moscone Cup. That's kind of crazy.

[A]

Well, Matchroom. Matchroom changed the rules, you know, as soon as I got the green card, and I wasn't able to play in any official tournaments back then.

[B]

Right, because you were Russian.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So the.

[B]

Which is really crazy. It was really weird.

[A]

Yeah. When you think about it, even the first ban that we got as a Russian athlete happened because of hockey players. The WADA VADA Anti Doping association, they banned all the Russian athletes. Doesn't matter what sport you're in.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh. So it had nothing to do with the war?

[A]

The first one happened before the war was 2018 or 19, I think.

[B]

All Russian athletes competing in Russia.

[A]

All Russian athletes competing everywhere. It was everywhere. We played World cup of pool, I remember, in uk, under no flag, but we were still able to compete. Like, when after the war, we were not allowed to compete anywhere.

[B]

Wow. Wow. You know what's interesting? It never stopped the ufc. Like, not only do Russian fighters fight in the ufc, but they're celebrated.

[A]

No one cares because they're not under the Olympic Committee.

[B]

I think they're definitely not. It's a professional sport.

[A]

Well, and that's what happened with Metro. You know, it's private company, right? Not a federation or association. They're just a private company, and they basically make their own rules.

[B]

I was just glad that they didn't make it political. I'm like, I think fucking this guy is out there causing trouble. Like, he's just a fighter. He's just. As a professional MMA fighter, you know, this is this is what he does. And let's think about that. Let's not think about what these other people are doing that are in the same country as him. It's not him.

[A]

Yeah, so the USA didn't.

[B]

They didn't care. Like, they let a bunch of. Like, for the entire time of the war, Ukrainian guys and Russian guys are fighting on the same card sometimes.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm glad that just, you know, Metro. Metro went out of their own way to make an offer to me and say, you know, you can represent United States. And at the time we were playing the US Open in Atlantic City two years ago, or was it. Yeah, two years ago. And the crowd is cheering for me. You know, I'm living in the United States already. Everybody's treating me like I'm one of their own. And now it's obviously completely different. You know, if you watch the US Open from last week, everybody's supporting me. Everybody's cheering for me. Everybody. Well, that's used to me living here.

[B]

Cool thing about America is that it's a nation of immigrants. It's like, you can come over here and just say, I'm American now. And everybody's like, all right, yeah, try that. In Poland, they're like, you're not Polish.

[A]

Get the fuck out of here.

[B]

There's a lot of countries like that that are like, no, you're not one of us. But America's like, we don't have, like, a nationality. We're all kinds of. So anybody can come over here is. And if you do it the right way, we. We get super happy.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I think. I think it's great. And I'm. I'm really, really glad that people really welcomed you with the way. The way they welcomed me.

[B]

Yeah. But that's also the way you play. You know, there's. There's a thing in pool it gets. When people play a lot and people really into pool, it's almost like that's the only thing that matters. The only thing that matters is how good you play. You know, there was a. Do you ever read that book, McGurdy? It was a Robert Burns book on a guy who lived during the Depression who's a billiards hustler, travel around the country. There was a scene in that where they were looking at the television and Nixon was on tv, and he goes, look at that guy. President United States, and he can't make a ball. Isn't that funny? Because you and I know what that means. Yeah, like that in the pool world, that really means Something like if you. You can't play at all. Like, it's the fucking president. You can't even play. It's real. It's weird. So if you come to America, all that they care about is if you. Since it's a melting pot already. And then it's like all they care about is how good you play. And you play pretty good so far. People just take in so far. Well, you're playing better now than ever before.

[A]

And I think I'm on top of my career right now.

[B]

What are you, 25?

[A]

25?

[B]

Yeah. Come on, man, you're not even in your prime.

[A]

No, yeah, I think I'm not in my prime. I think, you know, I'm getting better.

[B]

Every year, I think. So you, were you. The match that you had with that Filipino gentleman before the match in the finals. What is that guy's name? Michael.

[A]

That was Michael Bouna.

[B]

Quarterfinals. Yeah. So in that match, I was watching some of those outs and I was like, Jesus, like, it doesn't get better pool than that. Like, 4 inch pockets, tight competition, really good player, a lot of pressure. Everybody's there. Single elimination at that point, and you're just getting out, man.

[A]

Yeah, the pressure. The pressure is really high. I'm not gonna lie. Sometimes even you can watch it on TV and you don't see the emotions.

[B]

Oh, I get it.

[A]

Your bridge is shaking sometimes. Your backhand is shaking sometimes. And you just gotta. You just gotta manage it. You just gotta handle it well.

[B]

You have such a process when you play. Like when I watch you set up for a ball, it's always uniform. It's. It's. That's what I really enjoy watching when a guy is like, every shot, it's like.

[A]

Some people find it nice, boring.

[B]

Oh, those people are assholes. Those people are assholes if they think your style is boring.

[A]

You say it's like, you know, robotic.

[B]

They'll go, they're all pussies. They can eat shit. Those guys all. All they are is jealous. That's all that is. Everybody wants to play like that. Everybody wants to play like that. If they say because you play too good, it's not fun to watch. Shut up. Yeah, I know you that guy, whoever that guy is, I don't want to listen to opinion on anything. I guarantee you, he. He like, shows that suck. He could get in his car, listen to his music. It probably sucks.

[A]

Probably.

[B]

How do. How do you not w. Like watching someone play perfect. That's crazy.

[A]

Well, I. I'll have to agree.

[B]

Doesn't make any Sense. But then there are guys who play wild that it is fun to watch. Like Muhammad Sufi, that guy, he gives me anxiety.

[A]

Yeah, very unique, you know, sidearm, sidearm.

[B]

Barely holding onto the cue and he just fires balls in. He runs around the table. He like one strokes everything and he's just getting out from everywhere.

[A]

You're like, ah, yeah, he's very, very talented. We have a few, few, few guys like that. You know Oliver Ortman?

[B]

Yes, I remember him.

[A]

Yeah, so he used to win, you know, world championships and multiple world titles. He was a Moscone cup and won pro league.

[B]

Tony Drago.

[A]

Yeah, Tony Drago, same.

[B]

That guy was crazy. He was just running around the table, fireballs in, he couldn't miss. Yeah, those, those guys are fun to watch. But what are we here for, right? You're here to win. You're here to run out, you're here to get perfect position. You're here to dominate this very difficult table.

[A]

Yeah, everybody's different. Everybody has their own style, but under.

[B]

Extreme pressure, it's better to have your style like or coping Chung style or coping East. I like methodical backstroke. It always looks the same. Smooth delivery and you know, I play half ass pool, but I understand what's going on. It's such a mind.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

Every game is such a mind fuck. Every time you're about to pull the trigger. Like now. No. One more stroke now. No. One more backstroke now? No, not yet. Okay, we're ready. I hope we're ready. Go.

[A]

Well, you don't really have that because when we play we have shot clock.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Shot clock is brutal.

[A]

Shot clock, Shot clock is a game changer for sure. It's hell because you gotta, you know, make the decision basically right, right out of the gate, right of the chair. When you're in chair, you already know what you're gonna do because you only have 30 seconds and one extension per wreck, which gives you an extra 30 seconds and sometimes the pressure is really high and when you get completely brain dead, you don't want to be in that position.

[B]

I think the derby's a little bit better. They give you a little ten more seconds.

[A]

Well, a derby, the rule is where you're. As long as you stay down on the shot, the shot clock doesn't, doesn't.

[B]

That's good too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The other thing that's brutal is the.

[A]

Beeps.

[B]

When it gets down to five seconds before you got to pull the. And you pulled the trigger on a nine ball with one second to go. Oh, yeah, I was watching. I Was like, oh, my God. I would. I would be having a heart attack right now.

[A]

I almost had. Almost had. Moscone cup is definitely when it comes to pressure, it's the highest pressure you can ever.

[B]

Well, everyone's screaming and cheering. Everyone's screaming for people that haven't seen it but before. Most pool tournaments are very, very respectful. People will clap after you make an out or sometimes in the middle of a game. Like, if you make a really good shot, they'll clap. If you get great position, they'll clap. But as soon as you drop down to shoot the next ball, everybody gets quiet.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Moscone Cup. Those rules are. Those rules are off the table.

[A]

Off the table. Sometimes they shark you. Yeah, they would be super loud and you have a super tough nine ball and everybody would like. For example, you play in UK and 95% of the crowd is Europeans. So everybody's cheering for Europe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So let's say I'm on the tough nine ball and everybody's loud, and then everybody will go to. And everybody would go quiet just in a second. And it's really, really tough to pull the trigger in that situation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's. It's a tough environment to play in, but that's what makes this tournament special.

[B]

Well, it's fun to watch, though. I'm so glad that all tournaments aren't like that, though, where you encourage people to be assholes.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

It's kind of weird, though, that they've agreed to only be an asshole for one tournament because people yell out in the middle of, like you stroking a ball.

[A]

You see the crowd getting more engaged and more now, like you watch the US Open finals. It was loud when I played Michael Bown on the quarterfinals. It was kind of like that because half of the crowd was Filipino. Well, not half, but there was a lot of. A lot of guys that were loud.

[B]

This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. I think we can all agree that eating highly processed food for every meal isn't optimal. So why is processed food the status quo for dog food? Because that's what kibble is, an ultra processed food. But a healthy alternative exists. The farmer's dog. They make fresh food for dogs. And what does it look like? Real meat and vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients and help avoid any of the bad stuff that comes with ultra processing. And it's not just random ingredients thrown together. Their food is formulated by on staff board certified vet nutritionists. These people are experts on dog nutrition and they're all in on fresh food. The farmer's dog also does something unique. They portion out the food to your dog's nutritional needs. This ensures that you don't overfeed them, making weight management easy. Research shows that dogs kept at a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer. Head to thefarmersdog.com rogan to get 50% off your first box, plus free shipping. This offer is for new customers only. Yeah, let's talk about that. Because one thing that happened is there's a rule where you're not allowed to soft break. But soft breaking is basically very subjective. Like, a referee can decide to call someone on it or not call someone on it. And you thought this guy was soft breaking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you said something and the Filipinos went crazy.

[A]

Yeah, everybody went crazy. I had to delete my Facebook for a couple days because it was just bothering me. I was getting notifications every second. You know, crazy Filipino goes, yeah, you were sharking our player. You did that. But, yeah, I thought the guy was soft breaking. And the rules state that you gotta make your best effort to make a forceful break. So that's really subjective. And it's up to the referee to make that call.

[B]

I have a solution to that. And it makes it more interesting, too. Radar.

[A]

Radar, yes. Speed gun.

[B]

Yeah. It's an easy solution.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

Easy solution. And it makes it interesting. It's a new element that you think about.

[A]

Then you also have, for example, juniors or girls. Do you make the rules the same for them?

[B]

No, it's a good. Well, you don't. They're not playing guys, right? Well, girls are playing girls.

[A]

Well, yeah, but on WNT Tour, we. It's an open tournament, for example.

[B]

Oh, right, right, right.

[A]

Juniors can join.

[B]

But I thought you were talking about young kids. No, for young kids, you'd have to have an exception.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And for girls, you'd have to have an exception, but you would just change it. Just like, you know, so whatever the speed is, like, what is. What's a good brake speed? What do you think? You break at, like, Bustamante in his prime. What was he, like, 30 miles an hour?

[A]

Well, back in the day, it was different. Back in the day, everybody was breaking over 20, 23, 24, 25.

[B]

But booze dimonte had the craziest break.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When he would let the cue go out of his fingers and then throw his whole body into it. His timing was crazy.

[A]

You ever watched the Russian player? His name was Eugenie Stalyn?

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, you gotta. You gotta watch that stroke, it was. It was even crazier.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Oh yeah. It's like Roberto Gomez.

[B]

Oh, same thing. Crazy.

[A]

Same thing. He's up.

[B]

Yeah, way up. Way up. Yeah. That's so hard to be accurate and do that.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I don't know how they do it.

[B]

Yeah, the most insane smooth delivery. And again, what a mind. Because you're about to. You're trying to hit this one ball square on the face and you're throwing all of your might into it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So that's how Shane. Shane's breaking the same way, you know, his body moves first and then he delivers.

[B]

I'd like to know how fast he breaks when he breaks like 10 ball. Because when he 10 ball breaks, it's pretty crazy.

[A]

He breaks pretty hard. You know, I like to break with softer speed and with more control, but he just whacks him.

[B]

So what do you think would be like a reasonable mile per hour that you would impose? Where you'd say anything slower than that is soft braking. Is it like 15 miles an hour?

[A]

I think it has to be higher, maybe higher. 18. And that will also push the players to practice. For example, you wouldn't want to break borderline 18 because it may be under. So players will try to break harder. 19. Closer to 19, maybe harder than 19.

[B]

Well, they used to do that three point rule where they would. That was very annoying.

[A]

You think it was very annoying?

[B]

Yes, it was very annoying because sometimes guys would break hard but the referee didn't rack them that good.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And they made a ball and then the opponent gets to shoot. I'm like, that's crazy.

[A]

That's. Yeah. I mean, in that case, yes, I agree. But that's another simple solution. It's better than what we have now, I think.

[B]

I think the radar is the way to go.

[A]

Yeah, the radar is definitely the way to go.

[B]

I mean. And also it's kind of cool, you know, when you get to.

[A]

Yeah. An extra stats you have.

[B]

And some guys bleep like Shane. Even in nine ball when he does the cut break, he breaks really hard.

[A]

Kachi. Kachi is the one that breaks the hardest.

[B]

He's big dude.

[A]

Oh yeah. He breaks the hardest. I don't know how he keeps the cue ball on the table, to be honest, with that speed.

[B]

And it doesn't even look like he's trying that hard, you know, because he's such a big dude. He's just.

[A]

Last tournament he was breaking open bridge, which is even crazier.

[B]

Yeah, people. That's one thing about pool though. If you want to get spectators, you want hard breaks. Yeah, you know, like, people love it from, like, the Color of Money when Tom Cruise breaks and Paul Newman goes, who's that kid with the sledgehammer break? It's a dumb American thing, but if you want to get, like, American people to tune in, you got to break hard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, that's why Earl Strickland still gets mad.

[A]

You know, he gets mad at everything.

[B]

I heard Mike Siegel talk about it too. He's like, why don't they just hit it straight on the one ball and hit it as hard as you can?

[A]

Because it's no fun. You get zero control that way. It's no skill, really.

[B]

I just think he doesn't. He hasn't had someone lay it out to him, like, the way you just did with me, where you explain it to me. This is the first time that I had anybody explain to me that particular break. I'm like. And you did it dead on. And you knew that the cloth was a little worn because it's a year old cloth. So you're like, okay, because of that, I'm gonna have to hit it here. And it'll go on the side. And you smashed it and it went right in the side. I was like, oh, shit. Like, it's not. It's. It's very. It's not risking. You're not like, gambling. The only thing you're gambling with is that the ball's going across the table. But it seems like you guys kind of have that mostly worked out too.

[A]

Well. That's the thing. Everybody on the tour is figuring out the break really fast. Doesn't really matter what you change in the format. The players will figure it out.

[B]

The fun thing to me about your life is that you're traveling all over the world playing, and then occasionally you have these marathon gambling sessions that they stream online. And I've got a good buddy of mine, Tommy from Connecticut, shout out to my boy Tommy, and you know, he and I will like, be fucking texting to each other, you know, like for three days in a row while these matches are going on. And I get so juiced up for him, I get so excited about him. But it's like, that's the part of the game that has always been the most romantic, the gambling part of the game. And I'm glad that people aren't shying away from that because there was a long. For a long time, gambling was thought to be negative for professional pool. That's not the case anymore.

[A]

Well, it could be. It could be.

[B]

It could be. Sure. Because you're bringing in shady people for sure. Well, if you're gambling $100,000, where'd you get it? Where'd you get it? You know, Bob the drug dealer came over and you know, he wants in. He's staking me and if I win I get 40%.

[A]

But in our case it's different. Like our matches that we make, you know, there's only a couple of them that we did, we played twice with Shane and there's also a few one pocket matches we did, but the biggest ones were with Shane. And it's only a small group of people. It's basically just, you know, a few guys, my managers, me and, and same, same thing from Shane's side. So everybody knows each other.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. In your case. But in the case of like high level gambling in pool.

[A]

Oh yeah, there's a lot of, there's.

[B]

A lot of shady characters. A lot of shady characters.

[A]

A lot.

[B]

How often do you gamble just in regular life playing pool? Do you. Because does anybody ask for like giant spots or anything like that?

[A]

Well, everybody's asking for ridiculous games all the time. But I think my gambling game, my gambling days are over and now I'm a tournament player. Really?

[B]

Well, you got too good. Yeah, like I played you when you were here like two years ago and I definitely play better now that I played two years ago. But you play way better. You play even better than you would were playing then, which is crazy. But you were banking out and making shots. I was like, this is so humiliating. It's so humbling.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I do play a lot better than I did two years ago.

[B]

You know, which is hard to believe because you're the best player in the world and you're getting better. That's, that's one of the coolest things to me about any game or any sport. Anything is that. And especially today because there's so much data that's available. Like say if you're a young player and you're learning how to play, you can watch pool on your iPad till 3 o' clock in the morning. You watch matches and you learn, you learn how to play things. You learn like what? Why did he do it that way? Like, oh, and then you rewind it, you go, oh, that. None of that was available to like Mike Siegel back in the day or Nick Varner, those guys.

[A]

Yeah, there's tons of videos on YouTube.

[B]

There's so much, so much, so much information.

[A]

Yeah. And you can also, I mean you can also watch it on tv, I think Metro, Metro has shown all those tournaments, all of the majors on tv everywhere except us, I think.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And so it's just like everything else with the new generation. The, the level just gets higher and higher with everything unless there's physical limitations. And with pool, it doesn't seem like. It's not like you know, running a four minute mile or you know, running the fastest one meter.

[A]

We're all crooked. All of our backs are crooked.

[B]

Oh yeah, for sure.

[A]

You know, we're always bend over. It's always one sided sport. Every one sided sport is kind of like that. I think.

[B]

Archery's like that.

[A]

Archery, golf.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Shooting.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Your, your back must be fucked up. I know you fought. Your neck was fucked up. We brought you to ways to. Well last time you were here.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it did help. It did help for like six to eight months, I think. And then.

[B]

And now it's fucking with you again?

[A]

No, now I actually found the way. You know, I have my pre, pre routine. I stretch every single day. I do work a lot with like rubber bands, resistant bands.

[B]

What do you do with them?

[A]

Basically, you know, I work on my upper back.

[B]

Oh. So like certain workouts, certain workouts that.

[A]

Will take some pressure off my neck because my neck is where I really feel it. Like my upper back, shoulder blades probably.

[B]

Have a heavy head. That's what it is.

[A]

Yeah. Maybe when I did all the MRIs and I did have like a bulging disc, C4, C5.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That started to progress and was getting worse. I went to Russia for that. I think I was reaching out to you at the time and I found the guy that helped me a lot with like routines that we built and since then, knock on wood, everything was good.

[B]

Oh, nice. Did you ever get one of those things that I was talking about, those decompression things where you put your head in a harness and you like pull on the door.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Set it on your door and you can like hang by it a little bit. Those are nice.

[A]

Yeah. And I also. How do you call that?

[B]

Inversion table.

[A]

Yeah, inversion table. I bought that as well.

[B]

Those are great too. Yeah, Everybody should be doing that. Everybody should be decompressing because it get to, you get to a certain age and everybody's back is just like. You're carrying all this weight your whole life and your back just gets smushed and your posture starts to suck and then you start to get these weird pains and decompression and if you could do it and just be real vigilant with it. You can stop a lot of problems dead in their tracks for sure.

[A]

And I felt it, you know, I haven't really paid attention to, like, stretching as much as I did before this year. And I can, you know, I can play a lot longer, even though I'm not younger, you know, I was practicing.

[B]

You're a little baby. Shut up.

[A]

I know, but I was. I was, for example, 16, 18. I was practicing a lot more. A lot more than I did now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I never really had any issues then. 20, 22, I'm practicing the same, but I always leave the pull hole with some type of pain. And I don't want to go practice the next day because of that.

[B]

Right. Do you. The problem is it's hard to get access to a cold plunge when you're on the road.

[A]

Yeah, it's really difficult. I do have the cold plunge at home.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Sauna and all the good stuff.

[B]

Cold plunge is the thing, man. It just alleviates so much inflammation. Especially if you can do it first thing in the morning. If you could force yourself to do it first thing in the morning, it is the way to go, man. It sucks every day. But if you just do it, you get out of there, you're just like, oh, I just feel loose and free.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And as long as you don't do it within, like, two hours of you playing, you have to wait, like, probably two hours for your body to, like, fully warm back up again. Because if you are cold, it will kind of mess with your right.

[A]

With the muscles too tight.

[B]

Yeah. I was telling you, the worst thing ever for pool is lifting weights. There's nothing worse.

[A]

I found it myself.

[B]

It's terrible, for sure. You know. You know Willie Hoppy, the old school billiard player? Never heard of him.

[A]

Willie Hoppy?

[B]

No, never heard of him. You know what a Hoppy Q is?

[A]

Hoppy Q now?

[B]

No. Okay. A hoppy butt is like a type of butt that doesn't have a rubber bumper on the bottom of it. It's just flat. And for whatever reason, Willie Hoppy used to prefer that kind. I think it's named after him for some reason. Anyway, he was a famous billiards player, like the turn of the century and the turn of the other one, like the early 1900s. And he wouldn't even drive a car. He refused to do anything with his arms. He wouldn't drive a car because it would mess up his pool game.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, some players are super superstitious about the stuff.

[B]

You know, cars back then, though, didn't have power steering, so you have to think it's probably really difficult to steer them. See if you can find a photo of Willie Hoppy. He had the weirdest sidearm, too. Yeah, totally. Sidearm.

[A]

Keith McCready.

[B]

Exactly. Like, these guys start playing when they're five years old and they can't really reach the table correctly.

[A]

That's. That's exactly the reason why, for example, when I started, I played Russian pyramid in the beginning, and I was always sidearmed because, you know, I wasn't tall enough. They sent me to the pool table.

[B]

Yeah, look at him and that crazy sidearm. That's nuts.

[A]

Just like Mohammed Sofi.

[B]

Yeah, that's him when he was an old man. Yeah, just like Sufi. Weird, right?

[A]

Yeah. It's crazy that, like, if you ever.

[B]

Saw someone play like that, you'd be like, look at this lemon.

[A]

Yeah, you would want to play that guy if you watched him over the ball.

[B]

But meanwhile, if. As long as you figured out how to do it consistently.

[A]

That's the thing in pool, you know, there's so many different variations of the stance stroke that you can overcome everything if you practice just, you know, hundreds of hours, so it wouldn't really matter. You know, you can play by the book. But in the end, all that matters is how much time do you spend at the table.

[B]

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And resort in Kansas, 21 and over.

[B]

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[A]

Boyd.

[B]

In Ontario, bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. For additional terms on responsible gaming resources, see dkng. Like Shane.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Like when Shane, he's arguably the greatest of all time. One of the. It's in the conversation for the greatest of all time. Five time US Open player hits the ball in a way that everybody tells you, don't ever do it that way.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

He stops at the cue ball. Instead of following through like, and letting the cue ball, like, slide through, he stops at the cue ball.

[A]

He's very unique. Same as Filipinos. You know Filipino players, they have the unique style of play. They're super fluent. They're like dancing around the table. But nobody plays like that. Nobody else plays like that.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's interesting. It's. Again, as long as it's repeatable. Yeah, it's like there's a lot of things like that if you, you're. If it's repeatable, if you can do it over and over and over again. It does. There are no rules.

[A]

No. I mean, they are written in the.

[B]

Book, but how could you say that? Like Shane Van Boning is doing it wrong.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Make any sense?

[A]

Exactly. It doesn't.

[B]

I mean, he's probably won more tournaments than anybody ever, Right? Who's won the most tournaments of all time?

[A]

I mean, that's a good question. We were just talking about it this morning. I think Shane is definitely one of.

[B]

Shane.

[A]

It might be Shane. Shane. Maybe the greatest of all time right now.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, that's what Jeremy Jones says is the greatest of all time. Yeah, that's his pick. It's what's crazy with him too is the deaf aspect that he shuts his hearing aids off when he plays. That must be amazing.

[A]

That should be illegal, by the way. I mean, it should be.

[B]

Really. I mean, that's. Listen, man, life gives you lemons, you make lemonade.

[A]

I know.

[B]

The dude was born deaf. That's up.

[A]

It is, it is, but it's.

[B]

That's the advantage he gets. You could shut them bitches off.

[A]

I mean. Yeah, I guess.

[B]

Come on, man. You can't check to see if he has it on like Shane. Shane.

[A]

I mean, do you think we're not checking? We are checking.

[B]

Are you checking?

[A]

Of course.

[B]

Do you say things.

[A]

Has it off all the time?

[B]

How do you know when he has it off?

[A]

Well, because just before his match, he goes to his phone and puts it all the way down.

[B]

Oh, so his phone. It's Bluetooth. So his hearing aid is Bluetooth.

[A]

Oh, yeah. He can control by his phone.

[B]

Oh, that seems dirty. Because you're not allowed to wear, like, noise canceling earbuds.

[A]

No, you're not. Earl always wants that, but. Yeah, they're not allowing him.

[B]

Yeah. I remember when Earl used to wear, like, gun sight glasses. He used to wear glasses. Like the kind you wear at the range.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then he. He was wearing headphones for a while, so they told him not to. Like a pilot. Yeah. Like complete noise canceling headphones. Ones that look like they weigh five pounds.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then he had. He's got weights that he wears around his waist sometimes.

[A]

He puts. Definitely a character.

[B]

He puts weights on his elbow, he puts tape around his fingertips, and then he makes his cue as fat as my forearm with like, whatever kind of tape he's using on it.

[A]

Yeah. He runs five miles every day. Does he? Hundreds of squats. Oh, yeah. He's fit.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Well, I mean, he's not. He doesn't look very fit, but he works out every day or does something.

[B]

He. Is he the oldest guy that's still super competitive? Like, how old is Ralph Suque? Ralph Suque is still pretty competitive.

[A]

No, Earl is older than.

[B]

Is he.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. So I think Ralph Sukay is actually like my age.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Earl is like in the 60s, so he's probably the oldest guy that's like playing competitively and winning.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Yeah. It's a game for young people, son. You gotta have them young eyes cut that ball in for sure.

[A]

The ice is everything.

[B]

Yeah. How many guys do you know that got Lasik surgery?

[A]

A few. A few. A lot of players wear contacts when they play, but Lasik. Lasik has been the game changer for them for sure.

[B]

Now, are these young players that are coming up, are these guys embracing, like a healthier lifestyle? Because one of the things about pool is, like, it's always been connected. At least when I was young, it was always connected to, especially the gambling. Connected to a lot of partying, a lot of amphetamines, cocaine. And then you know, just.

[A]

Well, it's just changing. It used to be just a game played at the bar. Now it's a sport. You know, I think now in the US Everybody's taking the European approach. More methodical, more disciplined, and they treat it as a sport.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Especially the younger generation. You know, they see who is more successful on the tour. And if you look at top 10 right now, every One of us, we try our best at everything, you know, when it comes to food, pre match routines, how we practice, how we treat pool as a sport. So I think, yes, definitely, it's changing and that's why the pool is in a different place where it was.

[B]

Well, it's only because of the promotions and they deserve everything. And then of course, the players. But without the promotions, like putting these events on and making them a big deal, they wouldn't get all over YouTube. It wouldn't get all over these social media sites. But what pool really needs is something like they had the hustler in the 1960s made pool explode. And then they had the color of money in the 1980s, made pool explode. They need something like that.

[A]

Like some Two days ago trailer on Netflix. You haven't seen it?

[B]

No.

[A]

Netflix made a documentary about Eddie and Barry Hearn. I think it's about their family and their business and I think two or three episodes are about pool.

[B]

Oh, well, that's good. That'll help.

[A]

Yeah, that's really good.

[B]

That'll help.

[A]

Most of it is about bucks, I think. Boxing, darts and how they started the company. But pool is big part of it.

[B]

Oh, they do darts too?

[A]

Darts, snooker, Fishing, I think. And fishing. Yeah.

[B]

Really? Yeah, like fishing tournaments, like that, kind of fishermania. I think that's what's called fishermania. It's like bass tournaments or something like that. What are they catching?

[A]

I have no idea how it works.

[B]

I know Shane's a big fisherman, right?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

He goes lake trout fishing.

[A]

Ice fishing thing.

[B]

Yeah, that's South Dakota mentality.

[A]

It's the most boring thing I think you can do.

[B]

It's not that bad.

[A]

Ice all the day long.

[B]

It's actually kind of fun.

[A]

Freeze your ass off.

[B]

I did it a couple years ago. I caught a trout. I was pretty jazzed up.

[A]

Yeah, if you catch. If you catch something, then yeah, for sure.

[B]

It's pretty cool, you know, like you're standing on ice, so you're kind of freaked out that you're standing on ice. And then you use a drill to drill through the ice. And then you know exactly how much is separating you from drowning. So you only need a few inches. But when I was doing it was about 7, 8 inches of ice.

[A]

So what do you do? Like I put. You put a tent around you?

[B]

Yeah. Most of the times that's what guys do. They put some kind of a tent around them and then they get a. Like a drill. They go right into the ground. Right through the ice, rather. And then you have, like, a little net where you scoop out new ice that forms and you just drop your line right down there in the hole.

[A]

That sounds real fun.

[B]

It's exciting. It's exciting when you catch one.

[A]

Yeah, I did. I did fish a couple times in my life, but nothing. Nothing really exciting.

[B]

The problem, when you can play really good pool is really good. Pool is about as fun as anything. Like, really good. Which is. I've always said that pool is like an art form that only the people that practice it can appreciate. When you watch someone who plays really good, like, wow, that's beautiful. Like, that's beautiful. But to an average person, like, oh, he just made a bunch of easy shots.

[A]

Exactly, exactly. You can't really see, you know, the beauty of fundamentals.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Positional play. You know, at least with.

[B]

If you're explaining jiu jitsu to someone, at least people kind of get it. Oh, he's gonna break his arm. Like, oh, he's choking him. Oh, he's got his neck. But when you. When you watch someone play pool and you don't understand how difficult that three rail position was to get perfect on the four ball, you're like, you go, oh, my God, that was amazing.

[A]

Or when they say, you know, he's in jail, he's hooked, doesn't have a shot. You know, just people, regular people that probably don't understand.

[B]

They don't get it. They don't get it and they never will. It's just like, you're gonna have to play it to understand how hard it is, what that person did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The casual person doesn't understand, unfortunately. So what we need is more people playing. If more people played, then more people would watch people playing.

[A]

I think more people start playing. I think so, too. I think. I think the game grew up quite a bunch the last couple years.

[B]

Well, I know that the top golf people are going to do something like that for pool. That might be the thing. You know those topgolf guys. Do you know what topgolf is? Yeah. So topgolf, you know, where they have this thing where you just whack the balls out into the. Well, they're gonna set something like that up for pool where they have, you know, some sort of a business where you go in and play pool and it's more attractive to young people. I don't know exactly what their model is because it's still going to be pool. I don't think you're. It's gonna be a bunch of people just breaking the balls, you know, like. Like, because that's what they're doing when they're doing top golf, they're just driving the ball.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't know exactly what their ideas, but the same guys who they realize, like, a lot of people play pool, a lot of people pay pool in. And if we had a really attractive place for people to play, and it's probably correct, it's probably an untapped business because people are always looking for something fun to do on date nights.

[A]

Yeah. So what they do in China, for example, or somewhere, I've seen it in Asia, they put like a projector above the table and it gives you like all kinds of different games and interactions while you're playing.

[B]

What does it say here? The venue, which is being backed by investors including u. S. Based venture capital firm Sharp alpha advisors and the daily mail investment arm DMG ventures, uses pool tables, balls and cues from the traditional game, but adds tracking technology and video projections to add bonus targets and obstacles in an attempt to appeal to larger groups. Bonus targets and obstacles, huh? Alongside its own venues and those operated by franchise partners. Pool. It's called pool house. Pool house plans to sell its equipment to pubs, bars and other venues that want to update their existing pool tables.

[A]

Hopefully they can create a speed gun too.

[B]

Yeah. So it says Steve. I don't know how to say his name. Jalef. Jalefi. Jalifi said more people play at topgolf than on traditional golf courses in the US and we aim to make an even greater impact on the world world of pool. We have a strong track record. This project has been our most challenging endeavor yet. That's exciting. Maybe that'll do it.

[A]

I never even heard of it.

[B]

Well, if you get a bunch of guys that are already really successful at doing that with. The thing about golf, though, is like, whacking a golf ball is really fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's. And then if you have like a big open pit where you could just whack a golf ball, you got like a hundred yards. You can see how far people can whack a golf ball. And then you got a net at the end of it.

[A]

Yeah. Especially if you get it straight.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The most exciting thing a lot of.

[B]

People are going to do that pool is like, you don't know how to make a bridge. You're holding your hand funny and it's like moving weird your arm. And I wonder how many people are going to get frustrated. I wonder if it's the same.

[A]

Actually, it's probably.

[B]

Yeah. Because I suck at driving a golf ball. You Know, I don't. I'm not good. I've done it. I've played topgolf a couple of times. I've gone to a driving range once. It was fun. I'm not good at it.

[A]

Yeah, same as.

[B]

But like Jamie over here, that dude's out in the garage every day whacking balls. Every time I come here, he's out there whacking balls.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Until you realize, like, there really is, like. But there's a lot of technique just to the drive. It's very similar probably to a brake shot in that regard.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. Same. Absolutely the same.

[B]

I wonder if they can make something like that really marketable for pool. That might be it.

[A]

It has to be some. Some type of interaction because I think, I think it would be kind of boring.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To just, you know, whack balls. Pool balls.

[B]

The other thing that might make pool really big is big money. Like if the Saudis get involved and they get crazy and they start saying, okay, this, this tournaments for $3 million.

[A]

Well, we have, we have now the world championships is the biggest tournament we have on tours in Saudi.

[B]

Right. What's the. What's the first place?

[A]

250,000.

[B]

Pretty good. 25 million would be better.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Imagine that.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

So those guys have so much money, they could spend 25 million bucks and it'd be like nothing, something. They probably spent more than that on production.

[A]

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if they spent more.

[B]

They throw so much money around in boxing, it's kind of banana boxing, for sure.

[A]

For sure. And that's where Matchroom is really helping because they have those deals for multi sports. They make a deal for boxing and that involves snooker and pool.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So they have the snooker tournament in Saudi. They have the boxing event going on.

[B]

Yeah, you got to get that oil money involved, son. Those dudes throw some money around because it's like when people talk about the richest people in the world, they're like, really? Because their money isn't public. Like, they don't have to disclose how much money they make. They're kings. Okay. Like, they probably laugh like, oh, silly Elon thinks he's number one. You know, was paltry $400 billion. You know, he's basically a population to those people. So, like they've. They've thrown insane amount of money into boxing. I think it hasn't been confirmed, so I need to know whether this is true or not. But I think Usyk made a hundred more than $100 million in his last defense against Daniel Dubois. And I think Dubois made in the 70s, he made somewhere around 70, I think they said Usyk made like 130 something, which is crazy. $130 million for a fight? That's crazy bananas.

[A]

What do you think if Poole goes that route? Just one on one matches?

[B]

This episode is brought to you by Rocket Money. Financial freedom, when you get down to it, is not worrying about money, but with prices these days, that's easier said than done. However, when you take control of your finances, when you know what's coming in and what's going out, when you properly manage and stay on top of your budget, that's when you can really start working towards your go goals. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. And that's the key to financial freedom. If you've got something you'd like to save for, Rocket Money can analyze your accounts to find the best time each month to put extra money aside. And Rocket Money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you. The app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work to get you better deals. Discover financial freedom, cancel your unwanted subscriptions, and reach your goals faster with Rocket money. Go to rocket money.com jre today. That's rocket money.com jre rocket money.com jre that would be exciting if it's for big, big, big, big, big money like that. I mean, if you ever saw a pool mat, you imagine shooting a nine ball. Hill, hill for 100 million.

[A]

No, I can't.

[B]

Could you imagine I was shooting the.

[A]

Number for 250,000 last year?

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let us straight in.

[B]

Yeah. That was crazy. What was that like?

[A]

I mean, it was a crazy match against Kaji. We played world championships finals. He wasn't in the hill first.

[B]

Yeah, it was hill, hill, hill, Hill.

[A]

He scratches. I get ball in hand. Shaking like a leaf.

[B]

Were you?

[A]

Oh, yeah. That was incredible. I mean, that's the biggest tournament we've ever had.

[B]

Had, right?

[A]

Biggest tournament I've ever had in my career. You know, we only have so many tournaments that pay those kind of money and it's really difficult not to think about it when you're playing. Yeah, and yeah, that's definitely the highlight of my career. You know, making that tough eight ball. I mean, it wasn't tough, but the positional, positional play was tough because I had to go up and down with the cue ball and I landed right where I wanted to be. So I was straight in the nine ball. No pressure at all.

[B]

That's a good one for people to watch it. Like, what is this all about? Watch that one, watch that one. And know that they're playing for $250,000.

[A]

Yep. I mean, second place paid 100, so it was a 150, 000 difference.

[B]

That's a lot.

[A]

It is a lot.

[B]

For one wreck and for one nine ball.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's the beautiful thing about nine ball. You could run everything and then chunk that nine.

[A]

Yeah. Game over.

[B]

It's. It's such a mental game.

[A]

It's a game of millimeters, really. You know, single roll this way, that way and you're hooked.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or you're on the right side of the ball. Wrong side of the ball.

[B]

I was listening to John Schmidt do commentary once and he was saying how crazy it is. If you really think about it, every other sport that involves a ball, it's like something is hitting the ball. It's like you have a bat hitting the ball. Or it's like no other sport has a ball hitting a ball ball and then trying to be like really accurate over distance and then making that ball move around and get perfect for the next ball. Like even golf, you're hitting a ball, it's very difficult, but you're hitting a ball, you're not hitting a ball with a ball. That's. It's a whole nother element.

[A]

So you think full is the most difficult sport in that regard?

[B]

It might be snooker. Excuse me? Snooker.

[A]

Snooker is boring.

[B]

Oh, I don't think it's boring. I think when you get a guy who's really good, who plays, you know.

[A]

I think it's really difficult when it comes to, like, how difficult is it to execute the shot? Because the balls are smaller, the cues are thinner, the ball, the pockets are tinier.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The table is bigger too.

[B]

If you watch Ronnie Sullivan play, you can't think that's boring.

[A]

Of course. I mean, of course you have players like Roni. I mean, you can never, you can never say that it's boring. Yeah, but I think the game itself, it's just too much. Safety is nothing. Shots here and there.

[B]

Yeah. But it's because it's so hard and because it's so big, it's a 12 foot table, which is crazy. And the pockets are tiny and the balls are tiny. It's a really hard game. But when you got watch a guy like Ronnie and he doesn't miss like 30, 40 shots in a row. You're like, this is crazy.

[A]

What's really crazy about snooker, there's only, you know, four or five countries that really play that game. But it's a lot bigger than pool, really. Pool is a lot more international. If you look at the majors that match him have look at the last 64, last 32, you will have, you know, 20 different countries represented.

[B]

So that's interesting that snooker is bigger. Like how much do they make? What's like a. I know they were making like gigantic money in the uk. Is that still happening or is it died down a little?

[A]

Well, the majority of the tournaments are in the uk. I think there's a lot of them happening now in China as well. But I think really Scotland, Ireland, Wales, uk, China, that's about it. And few European players and they make, I would say, you know, the top, top guys, they make over 2, 3 million a year.

[B]

Do you remember the scandal? There was a scandal with one of the players a few years back where they got him of out hidden camera saying that he'd be willing to dump a match.

[A]

Oh yeah, there was a lot of Chinese guys that got banned for it too. Oh really? For dumping a match.

[B]

That's the problem with gambling.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

When gambling gets involved and you realize, like if you get your friends to bet on the other guy, that's the.

[A]

Problem with, I guess, getting the bookies to be involved in tournaments as well. Because when the prize money are not big, you will have players.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Thinking, you know, winning the tournament is nice, but I don't have to win that. I can just lose my round one, go through the loser side and take a free shot, those 5,000 real fast.

[B]

Yeah. That's unfortunate. But is that part of the thing of not having the kind of money that golf has? Because I doubt that people that play golf are dumping on purpose because there's so much money on the line.

[A]

Yeah, they don't have to.

[B]

Yeah, they don't have to. But when you. The difference between like winning and losing is so huge and then you can gamble on it and then you have friends and you tell your friends, like, listen, bet on him. Yeah, and I'm gonna make sure I lose. I think it's too easy to make money that way.

[A]

Yeah. But also, I'm pretty sure they're always investigating every, every big pet is investigated. I'm pretty sure.

[B]

I'm sure. But you don't have to do big bets.

[A]

No, you don't have to. Could be.

[B]

And you can have could be some offshore accounts.

[A]

Yeah, it could be.

[B]

You can use a vpn. I'm gambling from Vietnam, you know.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, you can find ways, I'm sure. But, yeah, I mean, it's. It's the problem.

[B]

Yeah. Shady businesses, man. Yeah, but that's also kind of the fun part of pool, too. So these places are kind of shady. Like, they're. They're like the. The outcasts of society. You know, if you go and you watch, like the finals of the Florida Open, you look in the crowd, there's a lot of outcasts in there. A lot of Android phones. Yeah, it's a lot of outcasts. It's a lot of people that have spent a giant chunk of their life in pool rooms. And the thing about pool is, if you really get into it, you're playing it eight hours a day.

[A]

Yeah. You have to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you want to get good at it, you have to.

[B]

It's the only way. Yeah. And it makes a giant difference.

[A]

A lot of people fall in love with a game really fast, and if you do, then you don't want to quit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you just hit balls for hours and hours and hours.

[B]

I was playing my friend Jake the other day, and I said, to get really good at pool, you kind of have to be a piece of. Because this is why you don't have to. I mean, obviously you're not. And you know, and you're lucky that your wife plays pool, which is huge as well.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Because if she didn't, like, you know where to find me because I'm going to be playing. Sorry.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, you're going to ignore most of your responsibilities if you're really good at pool.

[A]

It's really tough.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Personal life, especially with the schedule that we have now. Like, first half of the year was okay, but now it's just back to back. Like, even after this tournament, I have Texas Open starting on Wednesday. From that, and go to China. Then I go to Vietnam for three weeks. From there, I go to Philippines for two weeks.

[B]

Do you think the people in the Philippines gonna be mad at you still when you get there?

[A]

Oh, for sure, for sure. Reyes Cup. That's going to be another one.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Ray's cup is now is the rest of the world against Team Asia. That's happening in Manila. So they already. All the comments. All the comments. If you see, like, yeah, wait until you come to Manila. We're gonna welcome you with open arms.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Yeah, I'm gonna get it. But that's Gonna be fun, I'm sure.

[B]

Yeah. Hopefully it doesn't. So he doesn't get crazy, but yeah, that, that schedule's nuts.

[A]

Yeah. So it's really tough to balance, you know, poll, personal life, family.

[B]

Family. It's almost impossible. If you have kids, you have to take them to softball games and stuff that like, like that's why I said you want to be really good at pool. You have to be a piece of.

[A]

Well, hopefully I don't have to.

[B]

You don't. I mean, listen, obviously there's examples of people that keep it together that are really good, that still have a family and, but, and you know, spend time with their family, spend time with their kids. But you're going to have to manage your time because you're going to have to, you have to get those hours in if you're not playing like legitimately. Realistically, if you want to be a top flight world class player, what is the minimum amount of hours you think you have to play every day?

[A]

I think somebody said that you have to spend 10,000 hours to get good at anything. But I think in pull it probably is more.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's probably a little more because it's really complex.

[A]

Yeah. Because if you're talking about like top, top professional player, it's not just practicing, you know, and you will have to start traveling and playing tournaments. You will have to start playing and sparing with somebody.

[B]

Sparring.

[A]

Sparring.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you have to gain experience from those tournaments. It's gonna, it's gonna take a lot of time.

[B]

Yeah. And. But I guess it's like anything that's worth doing, you know, if you want to get good. That's one of the reasons why it's so fun is because you know how hard it is to do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If it was easy to master, I think people would probably pick it up and then they'd eventually quit. But the problem with the thing about pool is take a week off and then play again. And your arm's like, what do we do here? Like it seems all screwy. Doesn't want to listen for the first hour or so and then you finally get back in the groove again. It's because it's so difficult that makes it so attractive. That's why people get stuck playing it eight, ten hours a day. If it was easier to play, you wouldn't play it as much.

[A]

Much. Right, right. And I mean for me the big thing is I just always have to do something. I have to always hit balls because there are so many good players. Now so many good players and if I just stop for a moment or if I focus on something else for, I don't know, short period of time even they'll just catch me.

[B]

Isn't that nuts?

[A]

It is. It's driving me crazy. But I just can't stop. I just can't stop.

[B]

How does it drive you crazy? Do you wake up in the morning and feel like people nipping at your heels?

[A]

Well, like for example, now I know that Yap. For example, Oju's Yap. He won the UK Open, Florida Open.

[B]

And the US Open.

[A]

Won the US Open. He won the three out of the last four big tournaments we've had.

[B]

Which is crazy.

[A]

Yeah. Which is. It's really, really tough to be dominant in our sport. Almost impossible. But he's just, he's just proving that it is possible.

[B]

And he was on the losing end of the match that I think I've probably watched the most over the last year. And if you Google it, you can find it on YouTube. Just Google 9 ball perfection. And it's Koh Ping Chung, who's one of my favorite players outside of you of course. To watch. He. That guy is so smooth. There's something about those guys from Taiwan. I don't know what their methodology is in their training, but they have this smooth kind of effortless stroke that's like hypnotizing to watch. And that dude never missed a single ball in an 11 match defeat. He beat him by 11 to nothing. Never missed a ball, pocketed every shot he aimed at and never gave him a shot other than the opening shot. He had one shot at the beginning of the match, a long ass two ball. He didn't make it and then he was fucked, which was crazy. And that's Yap. That's the guy who just won the last three tournaments. Which is so nuts about this sport is that if the guy's winning and it's winter break, you might not ever play for sure.

[A]

You never know.

[B]

Like, look at today, you and me, there's like five or six games where I'm just like standing there, I'm just waiting for you to miss. You're not missing. And so I don't play, you're not missing and I don't play you. You know, like, but at a world class level, when you're doing that in the US Open and it's on TV and people are cheering every time you pocket a nine ball, that's bananas.

[A]

Yeah, that's rarely happens. But it was a very, very special moment I think because that video went viral everywhere.

[B]

That dude got in the zone. And if you can appreciate the zone, you gotta watch that video even if you only played pool casual. Yeah.

[A]

Shot the other guy missed.

[B]

Yeah, this is it. This is yap. And he. Boy, he chunked it. Yeah, he did he it up. But when you watch this guy, this guy Ko Ping Chung, who weighs 100.

[A]

Pounds, this is not an easy opening shot either.

[B]

No, it's got a combination rail first, it's crazy. But then from this out, he just never misses. And you watch this guy, like, watch how fucking smooth this character is. And again, again, the dude weighs 100 pounds soaking wet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The cue is half his body weight and he just kind of like gently hits everything. Just so smooth and effortless.

[A]

I remember this match because I was waiting for, for this match in the finals. I was watching it in the, in the steakhouse and it was, it was pretty painful for me to watch it.

[B]

Was it?

[A]

Well, I mean, you don't, you don't want to have somebody just not make a single mistake and play you in the finals. You know, it's just hurting your confidence a little bit.

[B]

And the reality is you would think, well, this guy's gonna win everything from here on out. But no, no, that's what's so crazy about this sport. As good as this guy is and as competitive as he look, how he hit that with follow.

[A]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[B]

To get out for the two in the corner. That's masterful.

[A]

That was really the to play that shot. I have no idea. Why would you even play?

[B]

Well, he's got ice water in his veins, man. I'm telling you that we were talking about this before, but there's a match from 2018 where he plays Shane Van Boning at the derby. And it's Shane's on The hill, it's 10 to 6, and you think, oh, Shane's gonna win this. And he runs five games and out on them and they're crazy outs. Like he starts with this bananas cut shot on the four ball to get three rail position. You're like, what is he doing here? Like, the commentators don't even know what he's doing. Is he ducking?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he fires it in. You're like, no way. Like, that was another. John Schmidt was doing commentary for it.

[A]

I'm a big fan of Co Brothers. You know, they're genuine good people and they're putting a lot of work and it's just amazing to watch them play as well.

[B]

They play so good. They play so good. And it's also interesting to me that these guys still play with those solid wood shafts, like we were talking about that earlier. It's like new technology has gotten into the game, and a lot of players like yourself play with carbon fiber. But it's interesting that a lot of these guys from Taiwan in particular, they still go with those wooden shafts.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know. I know that the industry went to carbon fibers maybe four or five years ago, and maybe some companies were kind of like pushing the players. You know, you kind of have to make a switch. But I don't, I don't think that's the case now because now, for example, I find that maybe advantageous to play with a wooden shaft when you're playing in like a sticky, sticky pool room in Asia where the humidity level is super high.

[B]

Why not?

[A]

Just because, I don't know, you can move the cue ball around easier. Or at least I found it easier.

[B]

Easier. Interesting. Why easier? Because I've heard the opposite. I've heard it's carbon moves the ball.

[A]

Easier, not in the really sticky condition. I think when we play, for example, Metron tournaments, everything is brand new cloth, brand new rails, brand new balls. Everything's slick. Perfect conditions then I think carbon fiber is perfect. But I think that's the reason why the agents prefer wood as well, because the humidity level is just over, over top. It's really, really bouncy. And that's, that's what they, they used to play back in the day, I guess. And that's what he referred to this day.

[B]

It's such a mind, though, isn't it? Because it's like, it's all really what you have confidence with. Obviously, anybody could play really good with carbon fiber, or anybody rather, who can play really good with carbon fiber could play really good with wood. It's just. Get it into your head what this, this cue does, the way it feels, the kind of deflection it has.

[A]

It's a lot of things.

[B]

You put it in the brain computer after X amount of months of playing with that cue. And you know what it does?

[A]

Yeah, I've been, you know, I've been experimenting with cues. Maybe not as much as you did, but I've started testing cues for the company that I was working, I'm working with right now. Triple 60. We've been doing testing for three years. So I know everything about, like, the foams, the wall thickness, what, the material of the ferrule, the hardness of your tip, the weight, the balance. So there's so many different things that will change the way the ship place. And then there's also. But there's so many different things. It's like a magic wand, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You have to try. You have to try so many things before you actually understand what you like and what you're looking for. And it's. It's not a. Not a easy process, I would say.

[B]

I remember I was going on one of my rucking hikes where I put a weighted vest on and I go for a walk with the dog, and you and I were on the floor. And this is how I remember this, because I was walking through this wooded area and you were telling me that the difference between your old cue and your new cue, you said there's a difference of about 5%. And I was like, 5%? Like, how do you know it's 5%? You're like all the balls that I've pocketed. When I think about what it does and what it doesn't do, I think my game is about 5% off. Off like that.

[A]

I think. I think it actually. Well, with the new Q, I was winning a lot more. So I used to. I used to.

[B]

This is like, right when you first changed.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, since then. Since then I was winning.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I guess. I guess it was the true.

[B]

Well, it's. You made it to your specifications.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's the thing about the longer. Longer shot. Because I have longer arms.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Long fingers. I do prefer a longer taper, which doesn't really exist on the market. So we created the shaft with a longer taper, especially for shots like off the rail. Let's say one. The cue ball is one diamond distance off the rail. That's where you feel that change in the taper thickness. We have the straight taper in our shaft.

[B]

What is the difference in the feel? What do you feel differently?

[A]

For example, the pro taper or the conical taper? You can feel the change of the thickness.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The closer you go to the pin.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We don't have that. Our.

[B]

Our shaft is straight, and so that way it doesn't give additional resistance as the. The shot gets further. Like as your bridge gets longer.

[A]

Right. You just don't feel the change in thickness.

[B]

Mind fucking game.

[A]

Yeah, it is. It is. And then you can go to deflection. The deflection is another thing. It's. There's so much science behind it that I don't. I don't even know where to start.

[B]

Well, deflection is interesting too, because some people use it to their Advantage, certain deflection. Like co. Because his Q has a lot of deflection. Didn't you say you hit some balls with it?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Basically you have to aim to miss the ball to make the ball. Doesn't make any sense. I don't know why would players prefer that, But a lot of players do.

[B]

I think it just gets it in their head how to play. And then they've been playing that way for so long that it's just automatic. Like if they hit a ball with heavy left hand English, they know it's going to go off to the right. So they hit it more full with heavy left hand English because they know by the time the cue ball gets there, so they, they have it in their head.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, it's just like a little computer in your brain. It's like, okay, this distance I got to aim here. This distance I'm going to aim here.

[A]

Well, my. In my case, I also have the. We also have little, little, little deflection. But when it's just too much, it gets really, really difficult. Especially like I said, when we play on shot clock.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Pressure out there and you have to pull one crazy shot. And that's hill. Hill.

[B]

So the argument with that against that would be the difference with wood is though you get a superior feel, you do get a weird difference in the feedback of the cue. And some people get very accustomed to that wood feedback. And they describe a carbon feedback as more dull, but you don't get the same sensations.

[A]

You almost don't get no feedback.

[B]

So I think those guys, the feedback in their hand is a part of the equation in their mind of where that ball's gonna go.

[A]

So when you say feedback, is it like a vibration that you get in your hand by the time you hit.

[B]

The ball, it's just a different feel. Like they all have a different feel. Right. Like we were talking about southwest, which is. Which are some of my favorite cues of all time. They have a solid butt. They're not cord. Right. And so there's. They're usually generally a little heavier, unless they're maple. Sometimes they'll get lower. But you very rarely see like an 18 ounce southwest. You see a lot of 20 ounce southwest because, you know, they're ebony or cocobolo or something like that. Really heavy. But they have a very specific thunk to them.

[A]

Yeah. Sound.

[B]

This is like a feeling. And you don't get that feel with carbon. You get a different feel. So if you can get used to that different feel, it is, it is like there's something to it. You definitely. The ball moves less off the line also.

[A]

I mean, like I said, there's so many different environments we play in. For example, we play in China in a pool hole with dirty cloth, and it's super muggy, and the rails are playing super spongy and bouncy. You would prefer one cue compared to the other one?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You go to, I don't know, Saudi Arabia, where it's super dry and it's perfect conditions. Everything's slick and brand new. I prefer carbon fiber in that case. So maybe, I don't know, five years, ten years from now, we will have different cues for different shots, Right?

[B]

Like a golf.

[A]

Yeah, just like a golf player could be the case. And some players already do that. They use some cues. For example, when they stay close to the vertical center of the cue ball, they use one cue. And when they use side spins, they use the other cue. Really? Yeah. Some players do.

[B]

Who's doing that?

[A]

Mario. He was doing that.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He brought two different cues.

[A]

Yeah. To Saudi Arabia last year. I think some other players do that. For example, what I do, I put the extension on the back of my cue for some Strats. I play without the extensions for certain other threads.

[B]

How much does your extension weigh?

[A]

It's super light, like 1.5.

[B]

So that gets you up to like, what, 19.5 as opposed to 18. Is that what you play with?

[A]

18 ounce?

[B]

You play with 19 ounce?

[A]

19.

[B]

Oh, so it gets you, like, to 20 and a half.

[A]

20 and a half.

[B]

So do you like the additional weight for like, a shot where you have to really stay down?

[A]

I just use it for, like, balance purposes, for longer shots. For example, when, like I said, I'm one diamond off the rail and I have a long shot where I want to have, like a long follow through. I just simply don't have enough. Enough of my cue on the back.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

So I add an extra length.

[B]

But, you know, it's lonely at the top, buddy.

[A]

It is.

[B]

There's only a few guys that you could have those kind of matches with now.

[A]

Yeah. Well, next one will be probably Joshua. You think so we're trying to make it happen.

[B]

Is he interested?

[A]

I think he was, but he is not really responding to messages really well lately. I think he was interested. So he had a guy who was willing to back him for a lot of money. And they. They said, well, we have to do it in this place with this rules. This is how it needs to be done.

[B]

Where was that?

[A]

Where they want to do it they wanted to Germany? No, they wanted to play it in Vegas. I like to say it's a neutral territory.

[B]

Vegas is good. Where would you go? To Griffs?

[A]

Yeah, I think they wanted to do it in Griffs.

[B]

Great place.

[A]

Good place. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, you don't like it?

[A]

I mean they wanted to like high roll me. They said we'll play in Vegas. You gotta bet like half a million or something like that. But what I really wanted to do is basically what we did with Shane, you know, like a $50,000 bet. Play race to 120.

[B]

Half a million's a lot.

[A]

And what I really offered him was to play multiple disciplines. We play like an all around. We play 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball. Or was it 9 ball, 10 ball, 1 pocket and banks. That's what I offered him.

[B]

Oh, what if you. A draw?

[A]

In case of a draw, we play another set.

[B]

But you know what I'm saying, if you have four games, you have to play three games.

[A]

I mean, I'm not playing to lose, so the more the better.

[B]

What would you race to at each game?

[A]

I mean it would have to be something we can fit in within eight to 10 hours. So maybe race to 30 in 10 ball, race to 30 in nine ball, race to 10 in one pocket and race to 10 in banks. I think it's a good format. People will like to watch that I'm sure. And it's good for the game. It, it's good for our sport.

[B]

It's tough to get people casuals to watch regular pool. Getting them to watch one pocket, they'd rather jump in front of a bus.

[A]

I agree. Well, you don't like the one pocket? You don't like it?

[B]

I, I watch it every night.

[A]

Hardcore fans like it for sure.

[B]

Yeah, When's the last one I watched? Justin Bergman played someone for a lot of money.

[A]

Yeah, he played the guy, what's his name? Little John.

[B]

And he was giving him a crazy spot, right?

[A]

Yeah. And he lost. Oh no, he won.

[B]

Justin won. Justin. Yeah, but it was close.

[A]

It was really close. Yeah, everybody liked the other guy.

[B]

It was a nutty spot.

[A]

I forget what the spot was 116 because I gave that guy 12 6.

[B]

Oh, did you?

[A]

Yeah, we actually played not too long ago in New Orleans.

[B]

How'd that go?

[A]

I won.

[B]

Nice. Congratulations. Do you like one pocket? Would you prefer or do you just play it because people will gamble it?

[A]

I think I like it because it's a good gambling game. I don't like the game itself. I think the new modifications they make in the game where you have to respot the balls. For example, if you get more than four balls past the kitchen, the fifth ball gets respotted back to the spot. So it makes the game more alive, more dynamic. So you don't get Those wedges where 50 balls go up table and people just play nothing shots for hours.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So it's more dynamic. And also derby, for example, has shot clock. I think one pocket has to be played with shot clock.

[B]

How much time they give you at derby?

[A]

It's one minute.

[B]

If you could make the perfect nine ball shot clock, what would it be?

[A]

I think it's good to where it's at right now.

[B]

30 seconds.

[A]

30 seconds.

[B]

30 seconds with a 30 second extension.

[A]

Yeah, man. Because if you make it, if you make it any, any shorter, it's going to be real, really difficult.

[B]

Short is too difficult. But I mean the 42nd, like it's just a touch, just a touch more to think about it.

[A]

I think, I think it's good where it's at. Yeah, it's difficult when you have to like switch cues. You have no extension. For example, you jumped. So that's why you see us grabbing both of our cues.

[B]

Running out there, throwing.

[A]

Yeah. Throwing your cue on the side.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Switching. It's really difficult sometimes.

[B]

That's another shot that people hit that you got to leave in is the jump cue. When you, you jumped out.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

You jumped out so many times during this U.S. open. There were so many times you got hooked where you pop that ball in and if you can't appreciate that on tight pockets. A beautiful shot where it goes airborne and fires right into the hole and then you get position on the next ball.

[A]

Yeah, I think it's great. I think those that are voting against it are those that can't do it.

[B]

Yeah. There's a lot of old school guys who just, they get set in their ways and they think that's a stupid cue. It's a little tiny cue. Fuck that thing. But why are they different golf clubs? Because there's different shots. Why do you break with a different cue? Because it's a different shot.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

Like, come on.

[A]

Of course. I think, I think it's what gets actually new people to watch it because it's exciting. Look, this guy jumped over this ball. He was this close to the ball. It's amazing trick shot.

[B]

And then also it's like the cues that people are jumping with today, they're designed so well for that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like I really like that QTech one that's I think my favorite one, that one is. And you helped design that, right?

[A]

Yeah, I was involved. I was involved, yes.

[B]

But not anymore.

[A]

Not anymore. I'm with a different company now. We're starting new brand that will be starting mom brand really soon.

[B]

When you think that's going to be available?

[A]

My personal junk?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Probably. I would say if everything goes by the plan, maybe first quarter of next year.

[B]

So that's the thing with pool too. It's like when you see a guy who plays really good, everybody wants to play with whatever the fuck he's playing with.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So it's one of. For a sport in a game, it's like one of the most marketable in that regard. Because almost everybody when they find someone is like, whether it's Efren or like. That's why so many companies like Mewchee was sponsoring everybody back in the day. Because when these guys were playing and they were winning, everybody just wanted to go out and buy a mutchi. Because you think, because it's like there's a mind.

[A]

It's like any sport game aspect of it then is the same. Or golf. You just want to have the same tennis racket as Roger Federer.

[B]

But don't you think there's a giant variety in the way those things hit as opposed to way tennis rackets hit? I don't know because I don't play tennis. But it looks the same. Whereas like the way pool cues are manufactured, the differences in the weight, the differences in the taper, the differences in the. The shaft composition, whether it's wood or carbon fiber or.

[A]

For sure. And I think when it's come, when it comes down to like a plank, you then it's really, really personal. You know, some players like softer hits, some players like hotter hits. But when it comes to a jump cue, it just comes down to how effortless the jump cue does the job.

[B]

Right. And how much. How accurate.

[A]

How accurate?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Do you have like a mental checklist that you go through before you execute a shot? Do you have like a pre shot mental preparation?

[A]

I do a lot of breathing. Breathing technique. So for example, I would breathe in on four counts. Then I hold it for like four or five, and then I'd breathe out for like seven, eight seconds to calm myself down.

[B]

Do you do that when you're sitting in the chair?

[A]

Yeah, I do that all the time when I'm sitting in the chair. Usually I would do like a loud breathe out when I'm at the table. Sometimes just let it out and I Kind of started to show emotions, too, because I just feel that's okay. You know, before I used to be like, you know, I can't show any emotions because it's weakness. But now I just.

[B]

The Russian way, I just don't care. You're American now?

[A]

Yeah, I'm fully Americanized now.

[B]

That's interesting. It's showing emotions. Well, I definitely think that's the case when someone misses. Because when someone misses and then they whack the table with their stick, boy, that empowers the other player.

[A]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

It definitely does.

[A]

Of course. And that's what some of the coaches that I've worked with, with in my childhood, they were all telling me, you know, don't show any emotion. You don't want to show any weakness to your opponent. They're going to be feeding off of it. And that's what kind of got stuck with. But I'm just glad that I'm out of it right now.

[B]

Well, it's the most, I think, and Jeremy Jones and I were talking about this. I think it's the most mental game because there's this moment of pulling the trigger. Trigger. This moment where you're making sure that everything aligns and you just kind of keep your mind on task and keep focused on the object ball. Do you look at the cue ball before you strike or the object ball?

[A]

So it really depends on the distance between the object and cue ball. For example, if it's. When it's close to each other, object ball and the cue ball, I look at the cue ball last. When it's long distance, I look at the object ball last.

[B]

Why is that?

[A]

That's just how I find it working for me. You know, it's. It's another thing that's very personal for other players. You know, I think most of the people look at the cue ball last, but I just. I just prefer the object ball. Works better for me.

[B]

It's interesting because it is a preference thing.

[A]

Yeah. So definitely a personal preference. I feel like if you have the straight stroke, if your straight stroke is straight, you will always hit the cue ball where you're intending to hit it. So it's more about where you're going to hit it.

[B]

On the object wall, there's a guy named Joel Turner who is. I don't know if I talked to you about this guy. He used to be. Well, he was a sniper for, like. For rescue missions with police where, like, someone had a hostage and he would have to execute shots under extreme pressure. And he was also a Bow hunter. And he realized that there were certain mistakes that he was making. And a lot of people are making bow hunting. That had to do with anticipating the shot and anxiety before you pull the trigger. And that the way to work around that is to have a pre shot routine in your mind where you're talking to yourself loudly in your head. And you develop this pre shot routine with very specific things that you say to yourself. You say, like, here I go. Like, you know, whatever, whatever. Different things. He's got a bunch of different steps that he said where he's talking to himself. Like, center your peep site. There's like a bunch of things in the heart.

[A]

I have almost the same.

[B]

That's what I wanted to ask you.

[A]

Visualization and meditation is really big.

[B]

So what do you say to yourself, like when you're about.

[A]

My biggest demon in my head is, I'm just scared to miss the ball. I'm just, you know, when I'm down on the shot, sometimes my brain goes, well, you're gonna. You're gonna miss the shot. What are you doing? You're gonna miss it for sure. Sure. Like the way you're aiming this shot, you're gonna miss it for sure. So if my thing is just telling to my brain that I have to stay positive, no, I'm gonna make this ball. I'm making this ball and I. It works for me.

[B]

Yeah. Why? If you think you're gonna miss, you will miss.

[A]

Yeah. 100% works like that.

[B]

What I was getting at is it. I found a giant crossover between that and Archer in that it's the same thing. If you think you're going to miss an archery, you're going to miss. And if you think you're going to miss in pool, you're going to miss.

[A]

Right? Yeah. It just works like that.

[B]

It is. It's crazy. It's like your subconscious tells you to miss, and it's almost like the pressure is too much. So you alleviate some of the pressure by anticipating the miss in advance.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's weird. So that's my question to you is like, what is the process that you go through to fight that off? It's just saying, I'm going to make that ball.

[A]

Well, yeah, it's an experience already. You have to. You have to miss a few shots to understand why. Why that happened.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I did. I did lose a few big ones like that. For example, I played Josh Filler in Germany in the European Open. It was a really, really big match. You know, the whole crowd is cheering for him. Quarterfinals of the European Open. And I, I landed on the nine ball. Really weird. But I'm still a big favorite to make the show. It was like a off angle. I was shooting from the rail. Quarterfinals of the European Open and I was up nine, eight, race to 10. And I missed the nine ball just because I knew that I was going to miss the ball. Same things happened in Saudi. I was up 10 to 3. I think it was last 16. I'm almost straight on the nine ball, but I just know that I'm going to miss the ball.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

I just know that. And I'm down on the shot and I know the shot clock is running on me. I'm like, no way. I just can't get up. I just king it up. I don't have enough. I don't know, I don't have enough time. So I missed the wall. I'm glad that I've won the match. And I won, I won. I ran the next track. But it's just weird how that works.

[B]

So now you have those experiences and then what do you do when that's over? When you go, okay, that can't happen again. I got to make sure that does that. That mindset never creeps into my head again.

[A]

So you just have to switch your focus to your fundamentals. That's what helps me. For example, Nick Vandenberg, he used to be a big player back in the day, Netherlands. He would practice sitting on his couch for hours, just practice visualization, just practice on the table. He would imagine himself practicing in the pool hall, like straight in shots. He wouldn't even go and practice. Whoa, that's weird.

[B]

Well, that's a weird dude.

[A]

Yeah, but it worked for him.

[B]

Well, there's a lot of science to that in terms of like studies that have been done about visualization and the improvement. And they found that actual real visualization, when you're really sitting down there and visualizing counts almost as much as practice. And in some cases more. And no one knows why.

[A]

Well, visualization is really big for us. For example, you're never going to win the tournament without believing that you can actually win it. And you can only believe that you can win if you can only visualize. Visualize that you won the tournament.

[B]

Right. Which is why I say that this is like the most mental of games. Yeah, you know, it is. It's such a weird dance that goes in your head. Like sometimes with. And again, I'm not a good player. I'm half assed. But sometimes I play really good. Like if I get like six hours, two or three days in a row. I can get in stroke and I start running right tracks. But when I'm not, and then I go to execute, there's like this thing in my head that, like, right when I'm about to aim at the. Like, right when I'm about to pull the trigger, my head goes, don't hit it there, hit it here. Okay.

[A]

At a touch of outside.

[B]

And I do it and I miss. I'm like, why did you change where you were gonna hit it, like last minute? What the is that? And I've been playing pool for 30.

[A]

Something years, but sometimes that works. And you're like, I'm glad I did that.

[B]

Yeah. Rarely. Most of the times I miss. Most of the times when I change where I'm going to hit last second, I miss.

[A]

But we all do that.

[B]

Yeah. Or when I think I'm not going to be this accurate, let me aim to overcut it. And then I'm like, oh, my God, you overcut it all the length of the table, you fucking idiot. If you just accurately, like, hit where you thought you were going to hit, you would have made that ball. It's this weird thing. But that's why I, like, love the game. Because when you're really playing pool, the world goes away. It goes away. You're not thinking about anything. You're not thinking about global warming, you're not thinking about shit. You're not thinking about inflation, how much eggs cost. You're not thinking about shit. The world goes away. When you're on that table, when you're playing, the world goes away. That's what I like about archery and that's what I like about pool. They have the same quality to them in that to do it correctly is so difficult that it requires all of your mind.

[A]

I agree. I totally agree with you.

[B]

And unlike chess, which also requires all of your mind, pool has the added element that you have to execute. You have to pull it off under pressure with shaky hands.

[A]

Kind of like a mix of chess with, I don't know, golf.

[B]

I. Yeah, well, I think it's just its own thing.

[A]

Well, it's an old thing for sure.

[B]

It's its own thing. It's very different than any of those other things. Even though I don't play either one of them, it's. It's very different than any of those other things. And when people get into it, man, it takes their whole fucking life over. I remember my manager had to have a conversation with me once when I lived in New York. It was like, I think you're spending more time playing pool than you are in your career. I'm like, he's right. He's right. I took a whole year off. I didn't play for a whole year. And then I came to LA and I started playing a little bit again. I was like, God, he got me again. Just sunk its teeth right back in me.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The amount of cues you have is crazy.

[B]

And now when I'm like, if I'm talking to someone and they're boring, I just think about playing pool. I think about getting out. I think about. It's like my default, default brain. It falls into these. But it's not really about the. It is about the game for sure. But what it's really about is sinking your mind to something. That's where the true joy comes in. Sinking your mind to something and then executing it to perfection. I think it's. It's some kind of a mental exercise, like akin to cardio, akin to lifting weights. There's a. There's a mental exercise to it also.

[A]

The enjoyment from developing skills and you just know how hard it is. I think the enjoyment is even bigger in that regard.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's a game that I really wish more people to appreciate. I wonder how many people are still listening to this podcast that are just regular people. They're like, what the. Is he gonna fucking talk about pool with this guy for three hours? Yep, this one's not for you. But that's the beauty of having four podcasts a week. You can throw one of them entirely a pool. But for pool players, there's a lot of people that get it. It's not like anything else. In this weird world of non physical things, in this weird world of virtual things, of playing video games and of being connected with computers and. Which is all very, very fun. Those are all really fun to do. There's a kinetic aspect to playing pool that, that I think a lot of people forgot how satisfying and rewarding it is and how. How intriguing the game is, you know, and that's why I always chime on about it. I think, I think it's good for you, you know, for sure.

[A]

And actually the way, for example, Vietnam marketed pool is they started opening pool rooms with computer club in the same building.

[B]

So that's like a computer cafe type.

[A]

Deal type of thing. Yeah. But the huge ones, huge ones, they have pool rooms with hundreds of tables.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah. Vietnam. Vietnam right now is probably the most pool plane country in the world.

[B]

Wow. And how long ago did this start?

[A]

Maybe three, four years ago.

[B]

Really? That's crazy. What made it explode in Vietnam like that?

[A]

I had no idea. For example, Hanoi Open, the first major we had in Vietnam. Three, three years ago, I had no idea or any expectations going to the event. But I always knew that I had some fans because on Facebook, like 40% of my followers are from Vietnam, which always seemed weird.

[B]

40%?

[A]

Yeah. Now it's more. Now it's more.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

So I went over there and I was amazed. Amazed. Like in Hanoi alone, there's 2,000 pool rooms in Hanoi. Just one city.

[B]

2,000?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's crazy. What is this? The most luxurious pool hall in Vietnam.

[A]

That's in. That's in Da Nang. I've actually been to this pool room before.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

But yeah, they have pool rooms with like hundreds of tables. This is Chinese eight ball, by the way.

[B]

Yeah. That's a weird game, right?

[A]

It's become really, really popular.

[B]

Hugely popular, right?

[A]

Really popular.

[B]

It's very lucrative, right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Those guys are making big money now in. They're called Hay Ball now.

[B]

It's called Hay ball, Right. It used to be called Chinese eight ball. So what, what made that game explode in China?

[A]

They were just throwing big, big money in the game and it really exploded everywhere because now all the English and snooker players, English eight ball players and snooker players are traveling, playing all those tournaments there, and maybe top 30 guys now on their tour making good money. And they are, I think they are trying to get the pole players to join them as well.

[B]

A lot of guys will probably do it just for the cheese.

[A]

Yeah, well, that's, that's the problem.

[B]

What is a big tournament in Hay Ball pay?

[A]

The biggest one pays 753,000 for first. But they have almost big tournaments every month. They pay 200, 300,000 first.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And small tournaments, you know, they pay 50. They're happening every two weeks.

[B]

But you were saying you, when you went over there, like regular dudes that you were playing were like robbing you.

[A]

Yeah. The competition is really high. The game is a little. A little bit different. So they use pool ball, snooker type of rail. So the pop, the pocket is round and they used like a snooker cloth. So it's really thick and like hairy.

[B]

So it's got a lot of nap to the cloth. So the ball moves slower.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They hit balls really hard. Is that because of the rounded edges? Like you got to fire them through there.

[A]

For example, if the ball is close to the rail, that's probably the best way to make the ball because you can push through the rail. Rubber. Oh. Kind of like a Russian pyramid type of thing.

[B]

Well, there's that one shot where in the side pockets. We can push through the nipple of the side pocket if it's. Yeah.

[A]

So it's like kind of the same thing. Kind of.

[B]

Because I watch a lot of those guys online and they fire balls in. I'm like, this is crazy.

[A]

Yeah. The competition is really, really high there because there's so many players in so many pool rooms in China that just have table to labels and it's becoming popular everywhere.

[B]

And when did that start in China?

[A]

I would say it started like 10 years ago, maybe even before that.

[B]

That's great. So think about that. That emerges 10 years ago. So this is only. We're talking about 2015. It's not that long ago. So that emerges 10 years ago. And then Vietnam emerges three years ago.

[A]

Vietnam. Vietnam is booming. But maybe I just found it out three years ago. Maybe it started.

[B]

So let's imagine that's 10 years as well. That's still not nothing. That's not that long ago.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like so it gives me hope that something similar can happen in America.

[A]

I don't think so. I think, I think the audience is different.

[B]

How so?

[A]

Because something has to happen in order to draw the younger audience here. I don't know if the social media is the answer, but in Vietnam it's just. They don't have any bars in pool room. They don't drink in pool rooms. They just play the game. Everybody's following professional pool. Everybody know who Shane Van Boning is.

[B]

That's gonna be tough to get people with no bars.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

People over here. A bunch of drunks.

[A]

Well, APA has 270,000 members. 270,000 US alone.

[B]

And those are mostly bar players.

[A]

Those are mostly bar players that play on Fridays. And they probably don't know who Shane Van Bodie is.

[B]

What? That's not possible.

[A]

It is possible.

[B]

Come on. Really?

[A]

Yeah, really.

[B]

They play pool in a league and they don't know who Shane Van Boning is telling you. That seems insane. He plays in those bar table tournaments sometimes.

[A]

There used to be a lot more of them.

[B]

Yeah, I watched some recent one from Boston. They had some big.

[A]

Right. Yeah, that's ultimate bull. They started. That's a company from uk. Oh, isn't they starting to. Yeah, they're starting to break through in the US as well.

[B]

Kind of crazy because it's a really quick shot clock. Big ass pocket, little ass table. And if you miss, you're fucked.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Because these guys, they're all running out. Justin Bergman is a wizard at that, too.

[A]

Yeah. Bar table label is a different game.

[B]

It looks easy. You look at it like, oh, small table, big pockets. This is easy. But no, if you miss, like, if you get out of line and you miss, the game's over.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You guys are going to run out. And that's additional pressure. Yeah.

[A]

There's more strategy and eight ball, all.

[B]

The clusters and everything's all cluttered up together.

[A]

Right, right, right, right.

[B]

And you can't shoot your opponent's ball, so you got to figure out a way to bump them and move them and get a shot on the eight.

[A]

Do you think the eight ball is still the most played game because of leaks and.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Most people don't. Like, I had a friend here and he was like, I play really good pool. I go, what do you play? You play nine ball? I was like, no, I play regular pool. I'm like, yeah, what is regular pool? Like, you don't play.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We had a conversation. I was like, okay, okay, okay. Let me explain nine ball to you. Like, you play eight ball. It's not regular pool.

[A]

But it may change with Metron being involved. It may change because they push nine ball only.

[B]

Yeah. Well, the thing about nine ball that's very exciting is the luck factor.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Luck factor is huge. You know when you watch a guy shoot a ball into the corner and he hits the rail and it bounces three rails and goes to the side? It's fucking if. If you're sitting there, if you're in the chair and you were hoping, oh, he missed, it's my chance. No, he got lucky.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that's. Luck is part of it. Sometimes people in the nine ball and that's the whole. That they win and people like, how could that be? A win is an accident. Like, that's part of the game. Yeah, it's part of the fun of the game. And then also you could win off the break. That's also part of the game. And that drives people crazy. No, spot that.

[A]

Like, No, I think. I think it's. It's great. I mean, luck. Luck is part of any sport, I think things.

[B]

I also like when. When someone misses an easy shot and then the opponent runs out and then makes a nine on the break. So it's like you up and the pool gods do that to you all the time. Yeah, they do. If you miss a ball, it's kind of weird how often times, like, you have to sit in the chair for a few racks because the guy just gets a bunch of, like, really awesome lucky breaks. You're like, this is terrible, for sure.

[A]

And you know what I also found with. When I'm winning more, I'm also getting more lucky. Yeah, I just get the love. I miss the ball. And then the guy is absolutely hooked.

[B]

I wonder what that is. Why is that so reliable? Because it's really reliable.

[A]

I wish I knew the answer. I'd be doing something for sure.

[B]

If some super egghead who studies pool, like Dr. Dave, like, if that guy could explain this, I would like to know, because I think there's a kind of science to it, and I think it has to do with. I don't know what it is, but I think there's a positive. You're. When you're in gear, when you. You can't miss and you're in stroke and you're firing balls and you're playing really well, you get these lucky breaks. It's weird. It's like you're putting out positive energy. But when you're down and you feel like shit and you're like, God damn it, I can't catch a break. And then the guy misses and you're stuck behind two balls, you're like, God damn it. It's always happening. I wonder, I often wonder, did you make that? Did you manifest this? Are you manifesting good luck with positive energy?

[A]

That's what I do. Yeah.

[B]

I wonder.

[A]

That's what I do. I mean, I'm always trying to be positive because I think there is a benefit to it.

[B]

I think there's a real benefit, like a real world, unmeasurable benefit that would.

[A]

Probably show up in statistics, but not even in pool. I think in real life, it's the same.

[B]

Yes, I think so, too, too. Yeah. That's what I think. Pool mirrors life in a lot of ways. I think that's the case. I also think, like, being really generous in real life is, like, really good for you. It's really good for everybody. It's not good for. Just for the people that you're being generous to, but it's good for you, too. It's good for everybody.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Like, it. Like more good things happen for you when you do that. It's. It's the same sort of principle. There's a.

[A]

Karma is really.

[B]

It is real. It just doesn't seem like it should be. It seems like you should be able to figure out life on, you know, a yellow legal pad with a pen and some really good calculus. But no, there's some things going on that nobody has figured out how to put a measuring tape to. No one's figured out how to put it on a scale. There's some things going on.

[A]

Yeah. That's a difficult one.

[B]

Yeah. And there's things going on with your mind that no one is ever gonna be able to figure out. Like, no one's ever gonna be able to figure out why some people get lucky all the time. But there's. I think there's probably something to it. Like Efren, for example. That guy used to always say, I got lucky. He was always saying, I got lucky. Meanwhile, who's more positive than that guy when he would. He would miss, he would laugh. He would laugh and scratch his head. Never looked like he was mad. I would want her to break my fucking stick. But he would. He was just like, oh, no, I missed. He'd scratch his head and go, oh no. And sit down and be all super positive.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And. But he got lucky a lot.

[A]

I agree. Maybe that's. That's the case.

[B]

Yeah. Well, that's why I wonder. That's why I wanted to ask you about your pre shot routine. Like, what is the. What are the things you're saying to yourself in your mind? Or is it just a lot of experience and a lot of, I'm gonna make that shot?

[A]

Well, it's basically shutting down the negative thoughts. You know, being positive is really difficult at times, especially when things are not going your way. When opponent is, I don't know, missing and shit, saves on you or fluking a few balls or just doesn't miss any balls. It's. It's really difficult to stay positive in your chair.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you just gotta focus on what you can control and hope for the best. That's all I do.

[B]

Have you ever thought about doing what Nick Vanderberg does when he sits on a couch? Just like visualizing running out while you're watching your opponent play?

[A]

I think I have that going through my brain when I'm like listening to like a hype up music. For example, when I'm walking through the mansion, I'm like hyped up.

[B]

What is hype up music for you? What are you listening to?

[A]

Different. Different. Depends on the mood. Sometimes it's like gangster rap.

[B]

Sometimes it's like, what kind of gangster rap? What do you like?

[A]

Russian. Russian stuff.

[B]

Russian. Oh, you gotta send me some.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, tell me what's good. Russian gangster rap.

[A]

That's good for the gym. Perfect for the gym.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, perfect.

[B]

Oh, nice.

[A]

Funk. Funk music. I like funk. Like Brazilian funk.

[B]

I like music like that. That I don't know what they're saying.

[A]

Right. I really enjoy that. I do understand what they're saying, but sometimes it's just doesn't make all that sense.

[B]

Russian gangsta rap, like, can you give me an example like that we could play right now? Like what is a good Russian gangster rap that Jamie could pull up?

[A]

Well, his name is Script In It.

[B]

Script In It? Yeah, like Scriptonite. Like kryptonite.

[A]

Yeah, well his name is Script In It. He's really popular in Russia.

[B]

See if we can find that guy. What's a good.

[A]

Usually usually it's a few remixes. Well, let me, let me see what's like a. You put me on the screen spot.

[B]

I didn't even know that they had a lot of Russian gangster rap.

[A]

Oh yeah, for sure. I mean it's not. Not great music, but it hypes me up.

[B]

Well, a lot of hype up music is not necessarily great.

[A]

I don't even know if he's popular or not. I just like his stuff.

[B]

Give me one script tonight though. One. One good song that you like.

[A]

Let me see.

[B]

Like one like you and Josh Phil are about to play for half a million. You're on your way.

[A]

So this song is. Is not good. It has a. Cursing all over it.

[B]

Oh, perfect. But just tell me what it is. We'll have Jamie pull it up.

[A]

Moscow loves ecstasy.

[B]

I bet a lot of people in Moscow do love ecstasy. Probably pretty accurate on you got it, Jamie. Yeah, well, I mean it's not written in English.

[A]

Yeah, it's not written in English.

[B]

I just want.

[A]

I just transl. I'm.

[B]

Oh, oh, the song. I gotta like get the right version of it.

[A]

Cuz it didn't. It's called Muska Mas.

[B]

Let me do a copy paste here.

[A]

Hold on.

[B]

If you want I can have him send it to me and I'll send it to you. No, that's not. That's not the issue. Oh, okay. Literally it's written and I don't even.

[A]

Know how to type that.

[B]

I can't type that. So I'm saying like it wasn't. Oh, right, right. When I googled it, it was on a lyric site. But this also is going to get us in trouble. This is going to get us in trouble. We can't play any music anymore. Oh yeah. All right, well we just. We'll cut it out.

[A]

You've got to go forward a little bit.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

Yeah. So it's something like that.

[B]

It sounds like he's on ecstasy, though.

[A]

Maybe.

[B]

I bet he is.

[A]

Maybe. I mean, most of the stuff he says, you can't even understand what he's saying because he's so fast. And he's actually from Kazakhstan.

[B]

There's a translation. Oh, here it is. Wet asphalt gray face. You'll find everything you need, Love or treasure. In the depths of the woods. Only the lipstick was worn off. Ceiling starfall. Fingers on the temple. The eyes are. This is all nonsense. Words together tomorrow again. Wet asphalt gray face. There are only clouds above you. Okay, that sounds like Chat GPT wrote it. Like, Chat GPT 2.

[A]

A straight translation from Russian never makes any sense.

[B]

No. Right. Is that. What is that like. Like learning. But first of all, you know how to read it, right? So you read. What is it, Cyrillic? Is that what it's called? So you read it and write it. Like, what is it like when you have to learn English? Like, how much of a weird juxtaposition when you see the two languages together?

[A]

Well, it's. I don't know. It was kind of easy. I think English is the easiest language to learn, really, because I was. I was studying French in school. I was in the French school, and for me, it was a lot tougher to learn French. I used to speak fluent French before. Now I just. I just don't. Don't remember anything, really. Yeah. I actually start forgetting Russian a little bit because I start thinking in English because I spent so much time here.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

So I didn't learn English proper enough. But to where I can speak and understand and, you know, at least have a conversation, and then I don't really speak with anybody in Russian, so I start forgetting it.

[B]

Oh, no, You're a man of no country.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

That's terrible. That would be terrible. And if you go back to Russia, they get mad at you that you can't talk good.

[A]

No, I mean, I still. I still talk good. I actually go to Russia at least.

[B]

Once a year just to stay tight.

[A]

Stay close to the game, stay close to my family.

[B]

But I would imagine, like, if you fell out of Russian, like, if it became uncomfortable for you and you went over there, that would be so weird for them.

[A]

No? Well, no. I mean, they're fine with it. There's a lot of.

[B]

But listen, if, say, like, if my daughter moved overseas and went to Spain and started speaking Spanish and then came over to America and had a hard time talking to me, I'd be like, what happened?

[A]

I'm not gonna get a Head injury. Forget the language. But it would be just that I would be using, like, a lot simpler words. My vocabulary is gonna be tinier.

[B]

Right. But then what if you're away for 10 years?

[A]

Yeah. Well, then you gain an accent and.

[B]

And then people like, look at you. You went America on us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You son of a bitch. Do you get any heat for coming to America at first?

[A]

Of course I did.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I've fed all my friends. My friends, actually, they supported me all the time. So I'm just glad that I had good friends and have good friends. But of course, the casual fans and, you know, the keyboard. Keyboard warriors. Yeah, they're always on me. I get the heat from that.

[B]

Because you left Russia.

[A]

Yeah. Sell out. You know, Not Born in the usa. And that's the music they always play in my cup. Not Born in the usa.

[B]

Is there a song like that?

[A]

Well, they play the song. No, not yet.

[B]

Oh, not. That song is very depressing anyway. If you want to get patriotic. That's not, like, Born in the USA is a terrible song. It's, like, so sad. It's not like. Like life is awesome. That song is, like, depressing. It's, you know, it's about living in a terrible part of the usa. Like, you're. It's not like the American dream, but not really.

[A]

I mean, I don't have the heat from the Russians. Not really. I don't have that.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

There's a lot of Russian people living in the United States.

[B]

States. So you get more heat from Americans that are upset that you came over from Russia.

[A]

I really. The Europeans. I think the Europeans that are the most upset ones, I think probably because.

[B]

You'Re now playing for the Americas, I know you could fuck up their whole Moscone cup thing.

[A]

Maybe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I do have a lot of, I would say Polish haters. Just because I'm Polish. Yeah, Polish. I have a lot of Polish haters just because I was born in Russia.

[B]

Oh, they just automatically don't like Russians.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. That's. That always happens.

[B]

Yeah. If you don't have haters, you're not doing anything. Right.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, if you're.

[A]

I'm sure you have a lot of them, too.

[B]

I'm sure I do. Yeah.

[A]

What was that crazy guy that was. He was trying to fight you or something.

[B]

Oh, the liver king.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. That poor unfortunate guy. I don't know, man. He just got it in his head some somehow or another that I was responsible for what was wrong with him. Him. That I was a bully. To him. Which is crazy because all I did was point out what was like super obvious. Like, you're lying about being on steroids. Like, hey, don't lie about being on steroids. Don't be a public person and no one will say that. It's that simple. You got to take personal accountability for errors that you made. I think there's some substances involved, if I had a guess, that led down him down a bad road, unfortunately. But it's also fame, man. Man, it's not. You know, I'm sure you experience it because you experience a lot of haters from in the pool world, but fame is not what people think it's going to be. You know, you think I'm going to be famous and life will be easier because people know who I am. No, life is going to be way harder because now you're under the microscope.

[A]

Oh, for sure.

[B]

You can go 24 hours a day. And this is a guy in the Brian, he calls himself the Liverpool King, who was not famous most of his life and then decided, I want to be famous and I have this great body. So what I'm going to do is just like tell everybody they have to eat liver and sell a bunch of supplements. And he made a lot of money selling a bunch of supplements. And then his cannot tell the truth about doing steroids. The problem with that is that physique is not achievable in your 40s without some help. It's just not. It's just not, not. It's just not like you could be a freak athlete and have that physique at 23. It's possible there's a few guys that can, but you have to have superior genetics and an insane work ethic and you have to be like, really intelligent about how you approach your training. But once you get into your 40s and if you didn't look like that when you were younger, oh, yeah, you're on something. Everybody knows it. There's nothing wrong with being on something. Like there's. Here's the thing, it's like if you want to be an influencer online, it doesn't exclude you from taking. If you're a person who takes testosterone or any even. There's guys who have huge followings who are clearly on anabolic steroids. They just don't lie about it. That's all it is. It doesn't make you less famous or make your physique less valid. No one really. I mean, there's going to be a few people, oh, he's a juice Head. But the reality is most people are just like, wow, that's really impressive. But what people hate is when you mislead them, when you pretend you're doing something that you're not, especially if you're. You're also selling supplements or selling a lifestyle and telling them, you know, about your ancestral tenants. It's just got to take accountability. That's. You made mistakes. If you didn't make mistakes, I'd be celebrating you. If you were like this guy who, like, there's a bunch of people that we talk about on the podcast all the time that I know are on Juice, but they. They don't lie about it, and no one gets upset at them. It's real simple, right? It's just. It is what it is. But that, you know, it's a guy who just take. Take a lot of heat and they just. He also funded. I think he at least had a part in funding this Netflix documentary about him, which I didn't watch it, but I heard it was not flattering at all, and it made him seem kind of insane, and that probably sucked. And then after that, he, you know, was mad at me. But again, fame is not a normal thing. It's not normal. And if you don't have personal sovereignty, if you don't understand yourself, truly understand yourself, not just trying to project an image of what you like people to think of you, but who you actually are, that's where you get in trouble with fame. And then also reading haters and reading the comments and, you know, and wanting people to love you, which is probably why a lot of people get famous in the first place. There's also, like, the. The thing of getting famous as a goal versus becoming famous because of a thing you do. You know what I mean? Mean, like becoming famous because people like your comedy or your podcast or they like the way you play pool or the way you play basketball. Like, that's a different thing. When you specifically go out of your way because you want to become famous. And that's a lot of people. It's a lot of. It's really weird that it's a lot of, like, very wealthy people. I know some people that are really wealthy, and the thing that they really want is to be famous. Famous. It's weird.

[A]

Just an ego egomaniac.

[B]

Well, it's the thing they can't buy. It's like they can. They have private jets. They got a house here and a house there, and they got a company here and a company there. But they really want to be famous. You know, so they, they will. That's. A lot of those guys want to go on podcasts and they want to like, sort of like let the world know how cool they are. It's weird.

[A]

It is.

[B]

You know, it's like. And then a lot of those guys, they take the heat off the comments and the, the haters and they don't like it. And like, Jesus Christ, I didn't know it was going to be this, like. Yeah, that's, that's what you signed up for. You signed up the game. Yeah. You're on the World Theater. And that's, it's a lot of eyeballs. It's a lot of, a lot of, a lot of fucking venom tongued people out there just want to say terrible things about you. Yeah.

[A]

Can't wait to something happen.

[B]

And you have to have the same way, you have that discipline to not allow those negative thoughts in your head before you make a shot. You also have to not allow other people's negative thoughts in your head either.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because they're as valid, if not more valid than your own negative thoughts.

[A]

Oh, there's so many different opinions. This is for example, every time I make a, I don't know, bad decision to their opinion, you know, they will always voice it to me and say, well, sure. And you just gotta, you just gotta deal with it.

[B]

Yeah. Or not pay attention to them. Which is, I think, the best way to do it. You must be aware. Everyone's aware if they fuck up. And you're always aware if people are upset at you about things. But don't fucking focus on it. Don't pay attention. And that's where comedians make a giant mistake. Podcasters make a giant mistake. I'm sure pool players do it. Fighters do it in a big way. Like, a lot of fighters get real mad when they read comments and they invite trolls to come to their gym. And some of them even beat the trolls up. Just kind of crazy, you know, Some guys will talk shit and they'll be so dumb that they'll actually think that they can go to the gym and, you know, spar with Sean Strickland or something.

[A]

That's the worst thing you can do because that's what Troll is wanting. That's what his goal is. He's trying to get to your head.

[B]

Yeah, but if you can get him in the gym, it's worth it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, Sean Strickland has a bunch of videos of guys who talk shit online. He just beats the piss out of them, which is like, then he wins, you know, Then it comes all full circle. Like paying attention to the haters actually paid off. Because for him, it's easy work. He's just. He just tunes these guys up like it's nothing and talks to them while he's kicking the out of them.

[A]

Yeah, well, I guess in that case, it.

[B]

Yeah, but with pool, it's like, you don't want to have to play some idiot who says you suck. Like, okay, put up money, let's play play. Like, they probably won't. And then you'll be talking with them back and forth. What is the most amount of money that you've ever gambled for.

[A]

Against Shane?

[B]

That was it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you don't want to say the full amount, but that was the most amount. But this Joshua Filler thing, if what they offered, if that ever happened, that would be the biggest one.

[A]

It could be. It could be the biggest one. It could be the biggest one. But also on my end, I just don't want it to be a one match and done right. I want to play, you know, if I lose, I want to play again. If I win, I want to play again.

[B]

What was he proposing in terms of a race?

[A]

He wanted to do the same. He wanted to do the same. 120, 10 ball over three days, just the same thing.

[B]

And what would you think about that?

[A]

I think. I think, yeah, we should. We should. We can do that for sure. But my. My. My take on this was I wanted to play in railyard in Louisville where we play all of our spot. Yeah, well, it's not really my spot.

[B]

It's considered spot. You go to a lot, right?

[A]

Not really. I go there, you know.

[B]

Oh, I think you're lying.

[A]

A couple times a year, I'll live 30 minutes from there.

[B]

Oh, see, that's your spot.

[A]

But I don't. I don't go there.

[B]

Shut up. That's your home room.

[A]

It's not my homeroom. I have a table at home. I practice at home.

[B]

Right, but your homeroom, where you go to is like the place where you go. That's near your house. That's an actual establishment, not your home table.

[A]

I mean, you can. You can. Yes. I mean, you can say it like this, but I don't. I don't go there. I don't practice. I never. I'm never there.

[B]

Right. I bet everybody knows your name. Oh, yeah. Walk in the door. Well, that. Everyone knows your name everywhere. It doesn't count. But.

[A]

But yeah, I could see why you.

[B]

Wouldn'T want to play there.

[A]

Yeah, of course we can Find a neutral spot. We can find neutral spot.

[B]

Maybe we're setting it up right here on this podcast. What's the most amount you think you get staked for?

[A]

I will have to consult. Yeah, I'll have to consult.

[B]

Yeah, consult with those gentlemen.

[A]

Hundred thousand, maybe. Could be four.

[B]

It's a lot of money.

[A]

It's a lot of money. Let's do it right here.

[B]

I'd be in, I'd be into doing that. I'd have to tighten that table up, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, would you want it four and a quarter?

[A]

Oh, that's another thing he wanted to do. He wanted to only play in a four inch table. So he wants to make it tighter because me and Shane, we put in four and a quarter.

[B]

Oh, I see.

[A]

And he thinks if he makes it tighter, I'm not going to be making as much balls on the break and I can't control the break. You know, it's always when you negotiate a match like this, you always want to have an edge.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And, and little change here and there may make the outcome different.

[B]

But I mean, I feel like you should do it in a place where you can get an audience though.

[A]

We can, yeah. But that's gonna be the biggest, the biggest draw off the audience we can possibly have online.

[B]

For sure.

[A]

It's gonna be the biggest draw.

[B]

What I mean is in person as well, like a place where there's a lot of people that can watch in person.

[A]

I think me and Shane would draw a bigger crowd, but maybe.

[B]

Really? Yeah, yeah, probably. Shane is a huge American hero when it comes to Poole.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But it just seems like he doesn't like it anymore.

[A]

With filler it's different. You know, he's like Jake Paul. A lot of people watch him, but they watch him because they want him to lose.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Well, I just found it like this.

[B]

I didn't know that. I'm just hearing that for the first time now. I thought he was beloved.

[A]

Well, well, it's kind of changing, I think lately.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Just the way he responded to a few different things. And social media makes it worse.

[B]

Oh no. Social media stuff?

[A]

Yeah, there was a few. I don't know if you're involved with like WPA and Metro and conflicts and stuff like this.

[B]

Oh yeah, that's right. So there was a lot of weirdness where, where he was playing for like what was the WPA said you couldn't play in a matchroom event or is that what it was? What happened?

[A]

What happened was.

[B]

So we should explain to people that don't know there's two different competing sort of organizations, and at one point in time, if you played for one, they were telling you you can't play for the other. And everybody's like, that's kind of crazy, guys. Like, pool is just starting to take off and don't schedule shit at the same time as this other one that you know is going to be there, work together.

[A]

So what happened was WPA is implementing all those bans, and they say if you play in Hanoi Open, you will be banned for a certain period of time from WPA tournaments and all the top players. At the time, we wanted to change that by just stopping playing WPA tournaments. So we just. All of us top 16 players or top 10 players, we just don't go to WPA tournaments. And by that movement, we wanted them to change that rule. We wanted them to lift the band, right? So the very next event, after we spoke with all the players, we were in the meeting room, we fly to New Zealand, and I was flying with Christina with my girlfriend at the time. She was playing the World Championships, and there was a World Championships for men's, which was a WPA tournament. And we all agreed that we're not playing there. But. But Josh was there and he was playing. So he basically decided and went against what he was saying in that room. He turned up and signed up to play. It wasn't just him. It wasn't other players. But then it just led to more. Like he went on social media and tried to say, you know, he was trying to defend himself and say, you know, it wasn't. It was my dream to win the championships. It was my.

[B]

What better way to tell those other 10 guys that are the best in the world that you're not going? All right, we're all not going. And then you sign up, that means you just killed off nine or ten of the best players in the world, and you have a much better chance of winning.

[A]

He did get a lot of backlash from that, and I think to this day, that kind of stuck with him.

[B]

I see. That makes sense. That makes sense. He's a hell of a player, though.

[A]

Oh, he's an unbelievable player.

[B]

Yeah. And he's really young, too, right? How old is he?

[A]

He's a little bit older than me, maybe 26, 27. But, yeah, he's the most fearless, the most talented player. He's kind of like Rony Osel in a pool.

[B]

Yeah, he's. Sometimes when he gets hot, it's crazy to watch where he's spiking balls in.

[A]

Oh, the high gear is unbelievable. Yeah, unbelievable. He would go for a long period of time without means missing any ball.

[B]

And the other thing about him is he never looks like he's freaking out. Like it never seems to be affecting him. Like he's never taking additional time in between shots.

[A]

No, he's a very fast, fast player.

[B]

Even under extreme pressure.

[A]

Yeah, he doesn't really fall under pressure and just seems like he doesn't feel it. Sometimes he's so good. Sometimes it does feel like this. And he was feeding on off the actual like hate of the crowd in Moscone. Like Moscone Cup. If you watch Las Vegas, I wasn't playing on those years. But everybody's landing rooting against him and he's just feeding off the crowd. Kind of like Jason showed us.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. If you can turn that into a fuel and just run Rex, that's amazing in my opinion.

[B]

Yeah. If you can do that, if you have that kind of temperature. But it's always interesting to me when a guy like that just seems to be so calm under pressure and just fires balls in. Like it's almost like. It's like shocking. Like he's got an intimidating game.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Not that I don't think you could beat him. It's a really good game though.

[A]

It is a really good game.

[B]

It's top one and two in the world. You know, I think at the very top as you see with, you know, with Aloysius. Yeah. He won three tournaments in a row, which is crazy. It's crazy to win like three majors in a row. But like, you know, Francisco Sanchez Ruiz went on a tear where he was doing that for a while.

[A]

You can, if you look back at like the years, even like 10 years from where we're at right now, it is always one player winning tournaments for like a year or two and then switches to another player.

[B]

Like Shane won back to back US Opens or Mika.

[A]

Mika won back to back. Darren won. Darren Appleton won back to back. Back. Yeah, it's always.

[B]

They get hot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. But it's just maintaining that. It's just so weird. Like we were talking about coping. Chung, who had that insane match in 2023, but this year didn't play nearly as well.

[A]

It's really tough. I mean, life gets in the way. Something, I don't know, family business or.

[B]

You might have a neck injury like you had Right. Right back might start bothering you. You get sciatica.

[A]

There's a lot of stuff to keep. Yeah.

[B]

But it's just that's why high Level pool. When you watch it, you know, on a world stage like that, when it's executed so perfectly, so fun to watch because you know how hard it is to get there.

[A]

Yeah, it's harder to even stay there.

[B]

So what do you do differently now that you're world number one? Do you do anything differently to try to maintain your position or is it just keep going?

[A]

No, just keep going. I know what I. What? I know what I did to get me where I'm at right now. Why would I change it?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I guess unless because.

[A]

A lot of people, they stop because for example, they had a goal, their motivation is gone.

[B]

Right?

[A]

You know, my motivation is, has always been money. Really most of the time it was just the money. I wanted to win as much as I can. I was kind of from the poor ish family growing up and I always, my biggest motivation was financial, but obviously I wanted to be a world champion and I had the dream to be a world champion. When I won the first world championships, you know that that dream was kind of gone. Now it's just another major, major, major. So they always ask me those questions were what would it feel to you if you win another US Open or Vauple man? Like it would be great, but I think it would mean a lot more when I stop playing. Like when I'd be sitting with my grandkids and like, oh, well, your grandpa was a two time world nine ball champion back in the day. It was four railing. That nine ball right there.

[B]

Why do you say it with a southern accent?

[A]

Well, because I live in Indiana. Here, I live in southern Indiana.

[B]

Is that they have a southern accent in Indiana.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, that's interesting. I never even thought of that.

[A]

Huh? Yeah.

[B]

What would you assume their accent in Indiana would be? Well, you're an Ohio boy, so you're close to Kentucky. Depends where you are there, right. Accent. Cleveland's got an accent. That's true, that's true.

[A]

People have accents.

[B]

That's true. But it's just when you, when you think about just in general, like pool's growth, I think you're in a perfect position right now in life. Life. It's like if you had been this good 20 years ago, you would be in the same sort of trap that a lot of those, the older players were where there's no real incentive to be playing professionally. The only money that anybody was making in pool 20, 30 years ago, real money was in gambling. And there was a lot of guys that were making money gambling that weren't placing well in tournaments, they just, and they didn't want to, they didn't want to play in tournaments, they didn't want to knock their action. But I think you're in really the perfect timeline. Whereas as you're getting better and as pool's getting more and more popular, the money's getting bigger and bigger and I think, I think it's a really awesome time for the game.

[A]

I agree, definitely. I definitely feel fortunate to be in the right time, in the right era with the way my career was going to. Because like you said, 20 years ago, I would have been nowhere.

[B]

And it's also the guys, the players of today, it seems to me, correct me if I'm wrong, but they're much more systematic with their training than they ever were before.

[A]

Absolutely. Absolutely 100%. Everybody's more disciplined. Everybody's treating it as a sport. Like I said, they're not treating it.

[B]

As a game, they're treating it like a sport. But they're also examining all the aspects of the game and constantly honing the them. It's, it's different. Like when I watch guys practice online, like you have a channel where you put a lot of your practice sessions online and you know, you get to see like there's no, there's no messing about. It's like there's, there's some serious training involved, like serious position play. Serious, like getting that muscle memory over and over again and different ways to stroke a shot.

[A]

For example, my idol growing up was always Niels. Niels Fine. And he has his own channel on YouTube.

[B]

Yeah, he's great. The Terminator.

[A]

He is the best to follow. The best. The guy is doing visualization every day. He's, he's practicing every single day. I think, you know, he's doing his 90 minutes of hardcore practice on the pool table. He's live streaming. He's explaining why, why would you have to practice? And if you follow just everything he does, you will get to a different level. 100%.

[B]

World class player too. He's fun to watch.

[A]

Yeah. Super disciplined. Super like Rafa, Rafa Nadal. He's a Rafa doll in pool.

[B]

Fun time. Fun time to be a pool player. And like I said, I think the sky's the limit. I think, I think the game is going to explode over the next few years because we've watched it get a lot bigger over the last four or five.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. Let's set up that filler match.

[B]

Yeah, man, I'll do commentary. How about that? Get Matchroom involved. Just set it up somewhere in Austin. I'll do it.

[A]

Let's do it.

[B]

Do it somewhere. We can have a crowd in person, though. That's what I was getting at. Like, you're gonna have a crowd online, but it'd be cool if you had a lot of people there in person.

[A]

All right, you got it. We'll. We'll set it up.

[B]

Okay, well, I want to see it. So, listen, congratulations on everything thing. It's been cool following you and seeing what happened over the last time you were here and watching you just get better and better.

[A]

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Joe.

[B]

My pleasure, my brother. Tell everybody if they want to follow you. What's your Instagram?

[A]

My Instagram has a weird name, but I have Facebook mostly. I spend a lot of my time on Facebook. TikTok.

[B]

Oh, this is a question I wanted to ask you. Your name. Some people say Fedor, some people say Fedora, but in Russian, is it Fyodor?

[A]

Fyodor.

[B]

Okay. That's what I thought, because people were correcting me. I'm like, I don't. I think you're both wrong. I think. Yeah, a lot of them. I've heard. Fetter. I've heard. And when I was calling you Fedor, people going, oh, he's saying that because Fedor Malonenko. I'm like, yeah, well, that's kind of the accepted American pronunciation of Fyodor, though. So I wanted to ask you if it's Fyodor. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, it is.

[B]

I knew I was right.

[A]

Right. But nobody calls me like that.

[B]

Okay, Fyodor, let's see. You are from now on, bro. Let's play some pool, then we'll get something to eat. All right, Bye, everybody.

[A]

Bye. Bye.