The Joe Rogan Experience #2376 – Brigham Buhler

Release Date: September 9, 2025
Guest: Brigham Buhler (Founder of Ways2Well, healthcare advocate, former pharmaceutical rep)
Podcast Length: ~3:21:20

Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging, nearly three-and-a-half-hour conversation, Joe Rogan and Brigham Buhler dive deep into the state of the American healthcare system, pharmaceutical and regulatory corruption, innovation in peptides and compounding pharmacies, the impact of lobbying and corporate capture on health organizations, US food system corruption, and frontiers in technology and human evolution—from gene editing to AI and the possibility of extraterrestrial involvement in human history. The tone is direct and urgent, with a recurring focus on fighting institutionalized corruption and protecting Americans’ right to choose their healthcare path.

Key Topics & Highlights

1. Political Upheaval & Healthcare Reform

[00:26 – 06:00]

• Backdrop: Massive political change with RFK Jr. at HHS, Trump administration, calls for health reform.
• Brigham’s Insider Perspective: After years in pharma/device sales, lab ownership, and whistleblowing, Brigham is now collaborating with RFK Jr. and testifying at state and federal levels regarding corruption in major health institutions (CDC, FDA, NIH, etc.).
  • "There is a lot of corruption, collusion and corporate capture throughout every one of these organizations, top to bottom..." – Brigham [01:00]
• Obstruction to Reform: Deep state bureaucracy, legacy employees, and industry lobbying make change “like moving the Titanic.”

2. Regulatory Capture, Big Pharma, and Peptide Wars

[06:02 – 16:44]

• Corruption in the FDA: Brigham recounts meetings set up by Secretary Kennedy (RFK Jr.), where FDA staff appear receptive, but warns: “They're gonna smile, fuck you…they’re going to ramrod all the things that you went in to talk to them about.” [06:32]
• GLP-1 Peptides (Ozempic/Wegovy):
  • Big Pharma (Eli Lilly/Novo Nordisk) lobbies the FDA to restrict compounding pharmacies from making these drugs, allegedly under the guise of safety, but really to guarantee monopoly and profits.
  • "The reason that you’re seeing side effects...is because they are not treating patients with the most efficacious dose...They’re treating patients with a dosage that reimburses the highest reimbursement rate on the insurance formulary." – Brigham [09:43]
  • Compounding pharmacies adjust doses for safety, prescribe nutrition consults, and ship at a fraction of the cost.
• Regulatory Maneuvering for Monopoly:
  • “They want all of these amazing compounds...to all be reclassified as a biologic. And that is the fucking straw that will break the camel's back…because…the FDA stance is it is illegal for me as a compounder to compound a biologic.” [21:42]
  • Reclassifying as “biologics” secures 12-year monopolies, eliminates competition, and makes drugs unaffordable.

3. The Revolving Door: Lobbyists, Regulatory Agencies & Whistleblowing

[15:11 – 26:35]

• Industry Infiltration: Examples of FDA officials or clinicians with entrenched ties to Pharma, perverse incentives, and direct “smile, fuck you” warning from insiders.
  • “There is literally a memo at the NIH that's being circulated around about how to subvert and ignore President Trump and Secretary Kennedy’s mandates…” – Brigham [03:25]
• Taxpayer-Funded Blockbusters: 100% of recent blockbusters originated from taxpayer-funded NIH research, not pharma. [26:21]
• Telemedicine Battles: Eli Lilly is suing compounding/telemedicine providers, even questioning the legality of telemedicine to force patients back into expensive pharma monopolies.

4. Systemic Problems: Diagnoses, SSRIs, and Medical "Science"

[46:43 – 59:28]

• Diagnosing Mental Health–An Exposé:
  • "The measuring stick to decide whether you’re depressed...was a questionnaire developed by a consultant for Pfizer..." – Brigham [49:52]
  • No blood/brain/chemical tests—pure subjectivity and pharma-driven criteria.
  • SSRIs score only 2 points higher than placebo, while exercise and red light therapy are far superior for depression outcomes.
  • Pharma hid adverse trial outcomes, especially in kids.
• Correlation vs. Causation: The American medical system frequently mistakes correlation for causation, with drugs introduced for business reasons, not efficacy or safety.

5. Food System Corruption, Chronic Disease, and Lobbying

[62:03 – 99:18]

• Texas Food Legislation Battles: Brigham describes fighting to remove ultra-processed foods from school lunches and SNAP, facing down the American Heart Association and Big Food lobbyists.
  • “The answer is 8 to 12 teaspoons of sugar [in a Coke]. And you’re giving it to a child.” – Brigham [73:02]
• Big Chemical & Glyphosate: U.S. lags behind Europe in regulating chemicals like glyphosate; companies seek legal immunity, and most of Monsanto’s chemicals are Chinese-sourced.
• Corruption Origins: Agencies from FDA to CDC were “born in captivity”—co-opted from the start by industry (Rockefeller’s petroleum-based medicine as prime example, CDC HQ donated by Coca-Cola).
• Chronic Disease & Processed Food: Links between ultra-processed diets and rising rates of obesity, diabetes, and depression.

6. New Science Frontiers: Peptides, Stem Cells, Psychedelics, Rights

[66:15 – 116:50]

• Medical Right to Choose: Brigham and Joe advocate vigorously for patient autonomy—access to peptides, stem cells, psychedelics and other innovative or non-traditional therapies.
  • “Federal government should [not] be shutting down people's ability...especially with compassionate use.” – Brigham [66:15]
• Ibogaine & Psychedelics: Texas’ progressive step for ibogaine/patient rights, with astonishing outcomes for treating addiction (83%+ success rate).
• Transformational Cases: Brigham shares success stories like Jelly Roll’s 200 lb weight loss (without GLP-1s) and improved cognitive outcomes for dementia patients using innovative health protocols.

7. AI, Gene Editing, and the Future of Humanity

[129:06 – 185:59]

• Technological Leap & Existential Risks:
  • Gene editing (CRISPR) and AI will change what it means to be human: “You can now edit in roughly 20 points of IQ…” – Brigham [172:16]
  • AI’s impact on jobs, information, and human connection—concerns about surveillance, mind-to-mind communication, rapid societal change.
• Cultural and Psychological Shifts:
  • The “tribal trap” of social media, bot-driven division, and loss of empathy in public discourse.
  • The need for a decentralized, transparent digital infrastructure (“blockchain-style” for information, not corporate controlled).

8. Extraterrestrials, Human Origins, and Mysteries

[116:50 – End]

• Open-Minded Speculation: Several segments devoted to the possibility that humanity was engineered or influenced by higher intelligence, drawing from biblical texts (e.g., The Book of Enoch), UFO evidence, and the resurgence of interest in the Peruvian "tridactyl mummies."
• Philosophical Closing: Good vs. evil as necessary for societal progress, with both marvel and skepticism about our technological and spiritual path.

Notable Quotes

• Brigham Buhler:

  • “They're going to smile, fuck you. They're going to smile to your face and they're going to ramrod all the things that you went in to talk to them about.” [06:32]
  • “[The FDA] defaulted...to their generic answer, right before Secretary Kennedy and Donald Trump took control. They expired the exemption that was allowing compounding pharmacies to make cost effective alternatives that patients could utilize.” [08:12]
  • “It’s not about safety…[big pharma] destroys records, hides data, and [has] cat hair and pest activity in their sterile rooms.” [10:57]
  • “The only price concession that any of these motherfuckers have given the American people in the last 20 fucking years is because the pressure of an open market…” [22:21]
  • “Step one in medicine, do no harm.” [57:37]
  • “Every one of these [health] systems have been built, co opted, corrupted and developed alongside industry.” [46:43]

• Joe Rogan:

  • “One of my favorite narratives is that they’re trying to do good. That’s one of my favorite narratives.” [34:03]
  • "There's no way Trump is aware of all this." [36:13]
  • “Most people don’t suck...Some of those people get power and then they control massive amounts of people who mostly don’t suck.” [105:17]
  • “All of this is because human beings have these reward systems that are built in from us being territorial apes.” [130:21]
  • “You have to say, hey, this road that we’re on, goblins built this road.” [111:50]
  • On food system: “To say that you’re protecting women, including trans women...That’s a new thing that you invented without taking into account perverts.” [154:04]

Important Timestamps

• [01:00] Brigham describes pervasive corruption & capture in health agencies
• [06:32] Brigham relays FDA insider’s warning about superficiality of meetings
• [10:57] Exposing unsanitary practices and hypocrisy in large pharma facilities vs compounding pharmacies
• [26:21] All 210 recent blockbuster drugs originated at the publicly-funded NIH, not Pharma
• [49:52] ADHD/depression diagnosis tools invented by pharma consultants
• [57:37] Exercise and red light therapy outperform antidepressants by far in studies
• [66:15] The case for patients’ medical right to choose, including innovative treatments
• [73:02] Shocking sugar content in sodas and impact on American children’s health
• [94:56] Industry testimony that more people die from eating organic food than foods with pesticides (lampooned)
• [129:06] Joe and Brigham discuss the relationship between human technological progress, greed, and the need for spiritual growth to “deserve” breakthroughs
• [172:16] Potential of gene editing (CRISPR) to drive human evolution—and ethical dilemmas
• [195:05] Conversation on alleged alien mummies, DNA testing, and human origins

Memorable Moments

• "Smile, fuck you": The most-cited phrase, capturing the deceptive politeness and hidden agendas in regulatory agencies.
• Joe taking the ADHD questionnaire: Demonstrates the subjectivity and absurdity in mental health diagnostics. [52:19 – 56:41]
• Congresswoman drinking a Coke during Brigham’s anti-sugar testimony: Symbolizes political indifference to health crises. [73:01]
• American Heart Association lobbying against removing processed foods from SNAP/school lunches—as emblematic of systemic rot. [83:00]
• Discussion of “tridactyl mummies” in Peru: Raises questions about human history and the limits of current scientific orthodoxy. [193:10+]
• Philosophical musings on good vs. evil and the necessity of struggle for progress. [164:59]

Structuring and Flow

The conversation is dynamic, moving fluidly between health policy, personal anecdotes, scientific breakdowns, pop culture, technology, speculative thought, and calls to action. Joe and Brigham maintain a candid, sometimes profane tone befitting the seriousness—and absurdity—of the issues discussed.

Closing Takeaways

• Healthcare remains at the front lines of America’s ideological, financial, and existential battles.
• Regulatory agencies are deeply compromised, with Big Pharma, food, and chemical interests undermining reform and patient care.
• Personal responsibility, informed choice, and grassroots advocacy are crucial—don’t trust narratives from industry-funded sources.
• Technological change (AI, gene editing) will radically shift humanity’s future—whether for good or ill depends on how corruption and power are managed.
• Mysteries of history and consciousness remain open, and open-minded inquiry is vital.
• Ultimately, progress lies in keeping one’s humanity, fighting for truth and transparency, and refusing to be divided by industry-driven narratives.

Resource

• Ways2Well links and documentation: [Referenced by Brigham multiple times for supporting documents and studies]

For a deep dive and full context, listen to the episode on all major podcast platforms.