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- [00:02]
Brigham
Joe Rogan podcast.
- [00:03]
Joe Rogan
Check it out.
- [00:04]
Brigham
The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
- [00:13]
Joe Rogan
What up, dog? How are you?
- [00:15]
Brigham
We're back.
- [00:16]
Joe Rogan
We're back again. How many text messages have we been exchanging back and forth where we're like, what the fuck?
- [00:24]
Brigham
Oh, it's nuts. It goes so deep.
- [00:26]
Joe Rogan
It goes so deep. This is, to me, this is one of the most exciting moments in. In terms of, like, politics, in terms of, like, who's in control. Like, having RFK Jr. At the helm of the HHS and having him like, really pushing to get peptides through, really pushing to stop all this bullshit that's been going on and, and seeing all these fucking roaches coming, running out when the lights come on. Yeah, it's been crazy.
- [01:00]
Brigham
It's definitely been crazy. And for anyone who doesn't know my background, because if they haven't heard our previous podcast, you know, I started out as a drug rep for Eli Lilly and I did that for three years. So I saw behind the curtain. This was right out of college. And then I was a med device rep. And then I owned labs, blood labs, toxicology labs, I. Pharmacogenetic labs. I tried to go educate clinicians on all this preventative care stuff within the insurance framework, within the system. And I was. I've been blowing the you. And I did, I think the first one four years ago where I was trying to blow the whistle on. There is a lot of corruption, collusion and corporate capture throughout every one of these organizations, top to bottom, every Alphabet organization, whether we're talking the epa, the cdc, the nih, the FDA guy from.
- [01:48]
Joe Rogan
The CDC that just resigned. The guy who. He has like, literally a pentagram dog collar thing on his chest. Do you know this guy?
- [01:59]
Brigham
Oh, I know. I know what you're talking about.
- [02:00]
Joe Rogan
This fucking freak who's upset that they're not giving babies hepatitis B shots.
- [02:05]
Brigham
He literally, in an interview yesterday, said his biggest concern is that they're going to get rid of hepatitis B shots. Children aren't having sex or shooting up drugs. Why do they need a hep B shot?
- [02:15]
Joe Rogan
Because they're paying. Because hep B shots are paying. Yeah, they're paying well.
- [02:21]
Brigham
And that's money. The problem is as. As you like, systematically walk through these systems in the history of each one of these organizations, I can show you time and time again. And I went from, you know, coming on this podcast and trying to educate people on the importance of taking themselves out of that system, doing blood work, getting proactive and predictive, preventing Chronic disease. Don't put your hands in the fate of these broken systems. And that led to getting to meet RFK and, and being a part of the MAHA movement, testifying in front of the Senate. And then I've testified at the state level. And Joe, the fucking level of fuckery and shady shit that I've seen now behind the scenes, getting line of sight into the government side, because I didn't. I was on the outside, in the periphery, somewhat aware of the government stuff. But now, having got behind the curtain, dude, it runs so much deeper and it's so much darker and it's so much more controlled than I ever realized.
- [03:20]
Joe Rogan
Well, it's all money, man. And there's so much money. I mean, it has to be one of the biggest industries in the country, right?
- [03:26]
Brigham
Oh, I think hhs, even, even hhs, which all falls under Secretary Kennedy now, I think is between 70 and 80,000 people, right? And so when people are asking, how does. Why aren't we moving faster? Why aren't we doing this? Why aren't we doing that? It's like you're trying to move the Titanic. There's all these divisions within hhs, the cdc, the nih, the fda, and it's whack. A mole. And every day a new fire pops up. And every day you've got industry lobbying, politicking, and moving chess pieces to obstruct, delay, deny, depose, and prevent any sort of change. And you've got legacy employees. There's literally. There is literally a memo at the NIH that's being circulated around about how to subvert and. And ignore President Trump and Secretary Kennedy's mandates, which isn't President Trump and Secretary Kennedy. It's the American people's voice. The American people voted for change. We're over the corruption, we're over the collusion, we're over the corporate capture.
- [04:28]
Joe Rogan
And for most people that I know, this was one of the biggest factors in this administration, like voting in Trump. One of the biggest things was getting Kennedy in there.
- [04:41]
Brigham
Same. Yeah. I believe that the MAHA moms and this health care movement and the frustration with the broken health care system was a deciding factor in Trump winning this election. And my fear is if we don't keep the pressure up at these midterms, it doesn't matter, Republican or Democrats, historically, both sides have been corrupted and both sides have made catastrophic mistakes. And if we walk through, like, each one of these organizations, like, back to the. Even the fda, okay, so most recently, I'm in Europe and I've got eyes and ears everywhere. Or you tell me where the best place to start is, because I want to. There's so much ground to come. Okay, so Secretary Kennedy set up a meeting for me with the FDA back in January. And he said, I want you to come with an open mind, open heart. They're going to do the same. And I want you to just sit down and lay out for these folks what you've seen, what you've experienced, and help them understand what compounders, telemedicine companies, stem cell companies, regenerative medicine practices, cash pay practices across the country are experiencing because of the FDA's choices and decisions made in a vacuum. And so I went to this meeting, flew to dc, sat down with all these folks. They're taking notes. They all seemed really friendly. There was probably eight or nine people in the room.
- [06:02]
Joe Rogan
And.
- [06:03]
Brigham
And I left there and a day later and I. And. And everyone's like, how do you think it went? I said, they seemed very receptive. Like everyone was nice, everyone smiled and everyone was just seemed friendly. Hand to God. I get a call from a person at the FDA and they say, I want you to know they're gonna smile, fuck you. And I said, what? And this person said, they're gonna smile, fuck you. And I go, what do you mean? They're going to smile to your face and they're going to ramrod all the things that you went in to talk to them about. So like, one of the things that I wanted to talk to them about was the GLP1s. Forget whether good or bad, let's just shelf that for the moment. GLP1s have their origination at the National Institute for Health.
- [06:50]
Joe Rogan
Let's explain to people. That's Ozempic, Wegovy. Correct those weight loss.
- [06:53]
Brigham
All these blockbuster weight loss peptides.
- [06:56]
Joe Rogan
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- [07:53]
Brigham
But it's bigger than them being a weight loss peptide. They fall under the category of peptides. And it's a slippery slope because if we allow the pharmaceutical industry to capture peptides, it will shut down all future innovation of peptides for compounding pharmacies, for telemedicine, for any of these things.
- [08:12]
Joe Rogan
Unless they have patents on it.
- [08:14]
Brigham
Correct. And you and I talked about this the last podcast and I was spot on. All the things I was telling you I have now confirmed having gone to meetings with the fda. I sat in that meeting and I said, you. So what happened is Eli Lilly is now one of the largest makers of this weight loss peptide. It's essentially Novo Nordisk and Eli Lilly. They have lobbied hard with the FDA to say we can meet the needs of the American people. There is no reason why anybody should be compounding any of these peptides. They're dangerous. You guys don't inspect compounding pharmacies. There's no FDA oversight. These products are made in garages and there's no FDA ingredients in them. They're not the same product. Xyz just go down the list of all those narratives that they're spinning to the fda. And when the FDA is only hearing one side of the story and 60% of their funding comes from industry, what you will see is time and time again they side with industry. So the FDA defaulted right before to their generic answer, right before Secretary Kennedy and Donald Trump took control. They expired the exemption that was allowing compounding pharmacies to make cost effective alternatives that patients could utilize. And this is crucial. The reason that you're seeing side effects, the reason you're seeing this cascade effect of issues is because they are not treating patients with the most efficacious dose for that patient.
- [09:43]
Joe Rogan
They.
- [09:44]
Brigham
They're treating patients with a dosage that reimburses the highest reimbursement rate on the insurance formulary. And I can prove this. They are overdosing people under, like, literally. They're not taking the time to do the consult to educate the patient on diet, lifestyle, nutrition. There is Zero doubt that GLP1s are overutilized in America. There's zero doubt that they should not be a frontline defense. There is zero doubt that they don't come with some sort of risk factors. But most of those risk factors are found in higher dosages. So why would you start a patient on a higher dosage? Why would you rapidly titrate them up to a higher dosage where you're causing catastrophic Muscle loss. It's because it reimburses more. It's not because it's what's better for the patient, it's because it's what's better for Wall Street. Okay, and then their answer is compounding pharmacies. We titrate at a lower dosage. We're unique to the patient. So what we try to do is start you at a micro dose and then also what we do is compound, compound it and add other peptides. So, like, one example of they're literally working to patent a combination of a GLP1 and IGF LR3. We've been making that for five years, like four years.
- [10:58]
Joe Rogan
Say that again.
- [10:59]
Brigham
So GLP1, what is an IGF? The weight loss in IGF, insulin growth factor, LR3, time released insulin growth factor, insulin. And the reason being, IGF preserves lean muscle mass. IGF preserves bone mineral density. IGF helps reduce visceral fat. IGF has a cascade of benefits that allow us to micro dose a GLP1 at a much lower dosage where you don't get the muscle wasting. And so this compound in trials right now is showing 20% body fat loss, or 20% loss relative to the GLP1s, but all of its body fat, almost all of it is fat. You know, you're not losing the muscle. And compounders are already making this stuff. Right. And so where I'm going with this is Lilly lobbies the FDA and Novo Nordisk and they say these drugs are dangerous. Let's look into that. Step one, Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk both have warning letters from the FDA for their manufacturing facilities. Novo Nordisk was cited as having cat hair and pest activity. I don't know if it's rats, if it's roaches in their sterile rooms. This is the FDA's own inspection. Eli Lilly has been cited time and time again for his egregious actions. Destroying records, hiding clinical data, a barefoot woman in their sterile room. The FDA uncovered all of this through whistleblowers. Furthermore, there's over 2,000 major pharmaceutical manufacturing facilities that have not been investigated in five or more, more years. And so my message to The FDA was one, you're wrong. You've inspected me three times in 18 months. Two, Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk are not making a safer product. They're not at a higher level of manufacturing specs. You guys look at them less often than you do compounders, and they don't make dosages unique to patients. So we're titrating dosages down, allowing patients to optimize the benefits, minimize the side effects. Not a one size fits all approach. And then last but not least, it's cash pay. We aren't billing insurance carriers, we aren't billing Medicare, Medicaid, and we're not charging $1300 a month, average wholesale price. We're able to ship these products for a couple hundred bucks to your doorstep with a nutritional consult. And so it's a better mousetrap. And what you'll see time and time again is if industry's getting beat, if big pharma is getting beat, they just change the rules to the game. And so where this is going, though, is so much bigger and grander. Joe. So I asked the FDA what made you think that this is no longer on a backlogs list? Because it was an emergency backlogs list. So the FDA provides a list every year where they tell compounders, we can't get these drugs. We need you to compound these drugs. Think of it like the bat signal. Bat signal goes off, we jump to it, we start compounding those drugs. The exemption expired under Biden right before Secretary Kennedy and Trump took control. The old regime at the FDA ramroded it through. Now it's not exempt. Now 503B pharmacies cannot compound it because they don't make patient specific, which means a lot of those products are no longer available. But they did that decision based off the fact that these crucial diabetic patients would be able to get the drugs they need. This is where the plot thickens. We called over 30,000 pharmacies for 12 months. I turned all of this into the FDA. Less than 6% of the lower dosages were available for patients, which meant what? They had to go to the higher dosages, which meant what? All of these programs get billed. A higher reimbursement rate, a higher billable rate. Eli Lilly and Novo aren't mad that compounders are making the product. They're mad that they're getting exposed for the corruption, collusion, and manipulation of our healthcare institutions time and time again. And it's gonna get 10 times worse as I lay this out for you. But I'll pause for a little bit.
- [15:12]
Joe Rogan
Okay, so pause right here. So what is a response to this? So you lay out this information. What can be done and what is the response?
- [15:21]
Brigham
So they all, they were friendly, they smiled, they were jocking down notes. One of the head clinics, probably drawing dicks. One of the clinicians from the fda, candidly, who's never practiced medicine, said there's no medical need for Peptides in this meeting. And he's like, but today we're gonna talk mainly about GLP1s. There's a need for GLP1s. Okay, I dig in. Where did this guy do his. He. He's a. He is a clinician, but his first stint in politics was in the state of Indiana in Indianapolis. Eli Lilly's headquarters. I worked for Eli Lilly. Eli Lilly owns the state of Indiana. And they absolutely own the state or the city of Indianapolis. And this guy did his first stint in politics under a congresswoman. Congressman. Sorry. In the state of Indiana in Indianapolis. And this congressman has released multiple, multiple tweets and messages and attends Eli Lilly factory openings and is a huge proponent of Eli Lilly. And this is just one example of the issues with that system.
- [16:30]
Joe Rogan
It's also the statement that peptides have no medical use when GLP1s are peptides.
- [16:35]
Brigham
That's literally what I said. I said, you do understand that a GLP1 is a peptide. Insulin is a peptide.
- [16:41]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [16:42]
Brigham
There are over 150 peptides that big pharma is attempting to patent right now, because the future of medicine is peptides. And here's why we don't. We aren't compounding a drug. We're taking something found naturally in nature. A signaling cell found in your body. Just like stem cells, just like Amnion, just like all of these crucial building blocks to our health and longevity that are deficient in our foods, deficient in our diet, deficient in our lifestyle. We don't get enough sun, we have too much screen time, we're inactive, and all of that shit's taken in our bodies. Shocker, right? And as we age, there's a precipitous decline in peptides in building blocks. One example, GHK, copper peptide. We know we have roughly 30 to 40% of the level of GHK in our bloodstream in our 40s that we had in our teens. Why is that important? It's an important signaling cell that tells your body that you're young, your cells are young, your skin's elastic. Heal this injury, heal this wound, reduce this inflammation. Right? It's safe, it's benign, it's found in nature. We're synthesizing that. That's what peptides are. And big pharma got beat to the punch by compounding pharmacies. And compounding pharmacies have an array of peptides in their tool belt. And the war on peptides has gone beyond the GLP1s. And this is what I wanted to explain. So it's very complicated. I gotta make sure I nail this right because it's important for President Trump to understand this. President Trump, the art of the deal. The master negotiator is attempting to play hardball with Big Pharma and he is going to negotiate a deal for best in class, but best in the world drug pricing for the American people. And that's very admirable and I respect the hell out of him for trying to get it done. But the devil is in the details. And my fear is historically, big government has been co opted and colluded by pharma and when they're not able to pull a lever and move a chess piece, they outmaneuver them. And it's already happening. Eli Lilly CEO announced he's going to raise the prices of drugs in Europe to offset the price reduction in America. But what that really means is we're not gonna get the price concession that Donald Trump, President Trump is working for. Right. Because what he's doing is the same thing we already see with the pharmacy benefit managers that I've explained on this podcast before. The PBMs artificially inflate the price because they get a rebate on the back end from the big pharmaceutical companies. That's hidden, that's not disclosed to the public. Then when they negotiate a deal with Medicare, Medicaid, Tricare, they tell the government, we're giving you 30% off, you're giving us 30% off. A bullshit price that you created because you set the market. And if we give these people a monopoly, we already know where it goes. We can see it time and time again. Eli Lilly's price of production on insulin and became one tenth of what it used to be. And they charged ten times the dollar amount of the retail price of insulin. And I've also Jamie, on any of this stuff on the Ways to well website, I did the JRE experience links again because I'm referencing so many things that people are going to say no way. So Lilly literally go to WasteWell.com and there's JRE links. There's a links page where I reference everything I'm talking about.
- [20:11]
Joe Rogan
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- [21:13]
Brigham
Gambling problem.
- [21:14]
Joe Rogan
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- [21:43]
Brigham
President Trump is is attempting negotiate these pricing. This is where industry's already moving the needle. That's just one piece of it though, Joe. Here's where it gets even more fucked up. This is how crazy this is. It just happened with thyroid medicines, okay? Animal derived thyroid has been around since 1890. We have compounded it for over a decade. I have had not one adverse event in a day. Not fucking one. We ship 6,000 bottles of medication a day at my pharmacy. Revive. We have had minimal side effects in literally over a decade. Big Pharma has lobbied the FDA to say these thyroid medicines are dangerous. We need you to shut down animal derived thyroids. Why? Because they're attempting to launch a thyroid medicine. And and they want the thyroid labeled as a biologic. Why would you label it as a biologic? Because by labeling it as a biologic, you subvert President Trump's mission to reduce the price of a drug because it's not a drug. I'm selling you a biologic so now I can bin you over the barrel and screw you again on the price. Here's where it runs even deeper. This is where it gets great. A patent on a drug is is usually five years. Do you know what the patent life is on a biologic? 12 years. So Eli Lilly, all of the Novo Nordisk, all of these entities are attempting to put pressure on the FDA to reclassify drugs as biologics. They want GLP1s as biologics, they want HCG as biologics. They want all of these amazing compounds that we've been providing for people for over a decade to all be reclassified as a biologic. And that is the fucking straw that will break the camel's back, the final death blow to telemedicine and compounding pharmacies. Because the third part of the equation is you cannot compound a biologic. The FDA's stance is it is illegal for me as a compounder to compound a biologic. So now you give a monopoly to big Pharma, you get rid of all price competition in a market where the President's main goal is to reduce the price of drug costs. If you want to reduce the price of drug costs the way you do it is through competition. And we saw it with the GLP1s. The only price concession that any of these motherfuckers have given the American people in the last 20 fucking years is because the pressure of an open market, people quit going and buying these retail drugs at thirteen hundred dollars a month because they couldn't get the dosage they wanted. They're getting titrated up to these mega dosages that are causing muscle wasting, bone mineral density loss, loss of vision. There's a $2 billion lawsuit against these scumbags right now. And I'm sorry, I've bit my tongue historically and tried to be like politically correct to an extent on here, but I can't do it. Like, this is insane. And I go back to if RFK and this administration was not in power, all of this would have just happened. So I texted the secretary and his team and I said, I have to ring the bell on something. And I've educated them on what's happening and all the moves that are being made. And the FDA was reviewing in a court document that nobody knew about. This is the problem with having 70,000 employees. There are legacy employees that have tight collusion relationships with industry that have been there 20 fucking years, that they're going to do what you let them do. And their offense is you run the big pharma offense. We're going to, we're going to obstruct compounders, we're going to prevent telemedicine, we're going to push people back to sick care, we're going to launch drugs into the marketplace. And let's look at the history of safety. Joe, if we look at again, I'm going to keep hammering on Lilly Lilly in a lawsuit against Mochi Health last week and at a federal judge is Suing mochi for using GLP1s for weight loss. And their claim is you are violating our patent, which you're not because it's patient unique. You are. And it's a peptide which is naturally found in the human body. And you didn't create the peptide. The NIH did. Our taxpayer dollars because we fund the nih. That's where all of these originated. Out of the last. There's so much. But out of the last 210 blockbuster drugs between 2010 and I think 2016. 210 blockbuster drugs. How many of those do you think big Pharma started at Big Pharma versus started at the NIH?
- [26:18]
Joe Rogan
Ooh, I would bet most of them started at NIH.
- [26:22]
Brigham
100% of the compounds that became blockbuster drugs had their roots at the nih.
- [26:29]
Joe Rogan
So taxpayer funded. And then these pharmaceutical drug companies get a monopoly on them.
- [26:35]
Brigham
Boom. And then we get rammed in the ass for the next. If they get what we want next 12 years and we fund it 100%. Wow. And the. So the FDA. My argument to the FDA.
- [26:46]
Joe Rogan
What a scam.
- [26:47]
Brigham
It's nuts.
- [26:48]
Joe Rogan
What a scam.
- [26:49]
Brigham
And my argument to the FDA in this meeting was these compounds are safe. One, they're safe. They're. They're naturally occurring in nature. They're prescribed under the supervision of a board certified clinician. They're compounded at a compounding pharmacy that is inspected by the FDA. Right. That you've inspected me three times in 18 months. All of our API and ingredients are sourced from the same exact suppliers as Novo and Lilly and all of the big pharmaceutical cartels. We all buy the ingredients from the same places. The only difference is, and this is what I told Secretary Kennedy and the fda, the difference between me and Novo and me and Eli Lilly is I actually manufacture and produce my product here on American soil and employ over 500 hardworking American people. Ask big Pharma why they're moving all their facilities to India and Ireland to escape the scrutiny of the fda. They don't want you in their factories. They don't want you able to challenge them or stifle their ability to print cash. Right. I can't play by those rules. I can't jockey that. The state of Texas is currently suing Eli Lilly. This came out. Ken Paxton sued eli Lilly like 3 weeks ago because of fraudulent activity where they were providing kickbacks to providers. And this is important too. If you have a clinician and you go to your doctor and they will not prescribe you a medication, you need to understand you, the patient, get to decide where that prescription goes, not your doctor. That is not your doctor's decision. So when a doctor says, I'm not going to let you go to a compounding pharmacy, you need to fire that fucking doctor. That is not their choice. They cannot force you to go pay $1300 at CVS. That is not their choice. And there are academic institutions like Methodist Hospital that have policies that say we're not going to prescribe compounded medicines on GLP1s. You've got to go to the retail drug because we think compounds are dangerous. Where is this coming from? Where? In, in this court document I was going to that just came out last week. Eli Lilly sued Mochi Health claiming that they're violating the corporate practice of medicine. So they're not just attacking the compounding process, they're also trying to obstruct via the FDA and they're now suing everybody in their mom in this industry who compounds or runs a telemedicine practice. And Lily is challenging that telemedicine is legal. Eli Lilly is literally challenging that telemedicine is legal. Because one of the ways that so many patients are getting accessibility to cost effective care is telemedicine. And Lilly thinks if we can shut down the pathway of telemedicine, we can force them to our own company, which Lily launched their own little telemedicine branch that you can call in. But in the meantime they're claiming that, that these companies are violating the corporate practice of medicine.
- [29:41]
Joe Rogan
They just want full monopoly 100%. So what can be done?
- [29:45]
Brigham
We're doing it like candidly we're doing. So I leave that first meeting with the fda. I get that message from this individual at the FDA and I thought, I'm going to wait and see. I hope this person's wrong. Let's see what happens. And when we were in Europe, I get a call from another source that said, hey, they're doing it in a court document. The FDA is going to make a stance that says there is no medical necessity for peptides which would ineffectively, in effect ban over 50 peptides that have been being compounded. Now remember, they already put I think over a dozen peptides on a bulk's list a year ago. That's all separate from the GLP one. Why did they do that? Because of the lobby of Big Pharma. You have people at the FDA who are legacy employees of the FDA who have legacy relationships with Big Pharma. We've already gone over how many heads of the FDA have gone to work for industry and then come back to work for the FDA and then gone. It's a revolving door. They're, they're swapping spit, they're lobbying together, they're going to dinners together, they're spending time together. And the CEO of Lilly is up Trump's ass. I was with another high, high, high level person at HHS and their phone kept ringing, I swear to God kept ringing. And they looked at their phone and they go, God, man, these people from Eli Lilly are aggressive. And all of this was happening in the dark. And so what we can do is what we're doing this podcast, getting President Trump's attention, gaining the attention of Secretary Kennedy and the team at the fda. And Secretary Kennedy and his team were playing whack a mole, you know, because it's, you gotta think it's not just the FDA, it's the CDC, it's, it's the NIH. 80,000 employees, I think they have 200 appointees from the new administration. You got, you're literally, it's like the Spartans versus the Persians. You got 200 hard hitters trying to fight 80,000 people that have been co opted. And I'm not there to say all those people are bad. There's a lot of good things that have been done at all of these organizations. But there's also a natural innate bias when a big chunk of your funding pivoted in the 90s where over 60% of the FDA's funding is based off fee schedules and those fee schedules generate the revenue that create your jobs. And you have an open door policy to meet with the fda, but you're not meeting with compounders and you're not reading the emails from compounders. Right. And so there, when I told the FDA what made you decide this backlog was over, they said, well, industry told us they could meet the need. And I said, okay, well did you see the email I sent you where we contacted over 30,000 pharmacies for 12 months and they can't meet the need? Less than 6% of prescriptions were available. They cannot meet the need. They're going to force people to higher dosages and it's going to cause a catastrophic health consequence to the American people and it's going to bankrupt our systems. Did you not see these emails? And they just sat there dead quiet and so jump forward, I get wind that in a court document and it's all in secret, right? All this shit happens in the shadows and then they play dumb. Oh, we didn't know. What do you mean we didn't understand? We. That's just a court document, Secretary Kennedy. Bullshit. It's a court document that sets precedent. And that precedent says that peptides have no medical necessity, while at the same time you have big Pharma trying to patent 140 fucking peptides as biologics that we were already making for the last decade.
- [33:19]
Joe Rogan
Jesus.
- [33:20]
Brigham
Is it about safety? Is it about safety? Because all of the adverse events that have been reported, almost all of them, a huge majority of the adverse events, which aren't even that many, came from black market peptides. And that's what Lily's. Lily in the court case two weeks ago, presented to the judge all the adverse events. And the judge said, where are they? And Lily said, right here in this Reddit forum. I swear to God.
- [33:46]
Joe Rogan
Oh my God.
- [33:47]
Brigham
And the judge said, are you really telling me that your documentation of adverse events is coming from a Reddit forum?
- [33:54]
Joe Rogan
You should send them to the flat earth Reddit forum. Let's see what else is going on.
- [33:59]
Brigham
So that's just like a sliver, Joe. Like a fucking sliver of what I've been living.
- [34:04]
Joe Rogan
One of my favorite narratives is that they're trying to do good. That's one of my favorite narratives. One of my favorite narratives, whenever there's any sort of large scale government organization, is that we are trying to protect people from harm. They're fucking never. No one is trying to protect you. Everyone, at every level of the government, whether it is about climate change, whether it's about geopolitical relationships, whatever the fuck it is, it is all about money. There's not a single thing that you could point to. Well, the government really cares here. This is the one. This one is a large, huge corrupted organization that really cares. There's not one.
- [34:42]
Brigham
You can historically go back, of course. That's where it's like.
- [34:45]
Joe Rogan
It's money.
- [34:45]
Brigham
I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I know people want to label it as that. If you go back, the FDA's predecessor, I think, was the Food Something act of 1901. And as they went to try and create this organization, industry assembled. Whose industry? Big chemical, Big food, big pharma.
- [35:04]
Joe Rogan
Well, Rockefeller literally set the tone for the entire medical establishment in this country by using petroleum based medicine.
- [35:12]
Brigham
You got it.
- [35:13]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. And people don't know this. Like most of your medicines in this country are formulated with the use of petroleum. And that is because of Rockefeller.
- [35:24]
Brigham
Yep.
- [35:24]
Joe Rogan
Because he had a monopoly on that.
- [35:28]
Brigham
And that's why the side effect profile is higher. And that's why Peptides don't have any of these things. Again, we're synthesizing short chain amino acids found in our body that we're deficient in. And so as we begin to see a precipitous decline in all of these raw elements that allow our bodies to heal and recover, we can bring you back to a state of homeostasis through the utilization of peptides. And Big Pharma is realizing they got beat to the punch and they're scrambling to capitalize and monopolize this entire sector. And the only way they can do that is to try and horse trade with President Trump and the administration and pretend like they're gonna play the game, but they're not gonna play the game. They're just gonna move the goalposts.
- [36:14]
Joe Rogan
There's no way Trump is aware of all this. This is an ad by BetterHelp. When you have a problem, when you're feeling down, it's nice having someone to turn to, like a partner who could cheer you up, a friend to vent to, a parent who can give you advice. Even having a nice conversation with a stranger can be uplifting. Whoever you like to turn to, though, probably won't have all the answers. That's where therapy comes in. There are some things that you can get from therapy you can't get anywhere else. Like if you're struggling with anxiety or depression, a therapist can help you develop positive coping skills. Or if you're struggling with how to be kinder to yourself, therapy can help you take a step in the right direction. And thanks to BetterHelp, matching with a credentialed therapist is easier than ever. Just head online to fill out a short questionnaire and BetterHelp will set you up with a therapist based on your needs. If for any reason it's not a good fit, you can switch to another therapist at no extra cost. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one with better help. Our listeners get 10% off their first month@betterhelp.com jre that's better h lp.com jre.
- [37:42]
Brigham
Well, he's got too many things he's fighting. And that's where I'm trying to ring the bell.
- [37:46]
Joe Rogan
I've talked to him.
- [37:46]
Brigham
Yeah. Yeah.
- [37:47]
Joe Rogan
There's no way.
- [37:48]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [37:49]
Joe Rogan
With the way that guy's mind works, there's no way he's absorbing all this.
- [37:53]
Brigham
So the message that Secretary Kennedy gave me, and this is where I'm like, it isn't woo, woo. It Isn't bullshit. I can tell you. I've texted that guy two times in my life, and both times he's called me within 10 minutes. And I texted him, I said, I have an emergency. This is a big deal. I want to make you aware of something that's happening at the fda. And he called me and said, what's going on? And I laid it out for him and he said, what the fuck are you talking about? Basically, I had no idea. And it's not. He's again, he's playing whack a mole. He's got 500 fires. You've got some legacy employee at the FDA that's going to try and make this statement in a court document that's flying under the radar because it's not an overarching policy, right? And then even in the subsequent meeting, so RFK said, give me 10 minutes, 10 minutes later, I'm on calls with the FDA. Then he's like, how soon can you come meet with the FDA again? So we set an emergency conference call. I do a call with the fda. He said again, his sec, Secretary Kennedy's team said they're going to approach this with an open mind and an open heart and they're going to have. It's going to be a different tone than the last meeting and I'm going to try and attend that call or have one of my staffers attend that call. Okay? The call went down at like 8 in the morning when he was in Alaska. And then another mole leaked to me because I have moles. I'm playing. I'm playing the game they play now. I'm not going to fuck around. And my mole called me and said they scheduled the meeting early because they knew he'd be in Alaska and they knew he couldn't be on it. And that call did not go well. It was a bunch of legacy FDA employees basically saying, we're going to, we're going to stay the course. We're not opening Peptides up to the American people. And so I had to text his team and go, hey, the call didn't go well. And then they're like, our intel's telling us the same thing. And so he stepped in and said, this is a mandate. We are not going to dictate to the American people that they can or cannot use preventative care and peptides. This is a mandate. You need to figure this out. And we need to open accessibility and we need to bring Peptides back for the American people through safe, compliant compounding pharmacies, not black Market, which is springing up everywhere. We're going to have another opioid crisis. I explained this to them, too. Everywhere out there, there are peptides that you can buy online now with no checks and balances, with no FDA inspection, with no validation testing, with no way of telling if there's any contamination, cross contamination, or if they're even real. Yeah.
- [40:24]
Joe Rogan
I've had people buy ipamorelin online. And you know that that's a peptide that when you do it, it has a very strong reaction. Like, you feel it in your body, like, immediately after. There's nothing. They get nothing. I'm like, yeah, it's probably bullshit. Yeah, you're buying bullshit peptides. But the point is, like, if Kennedy is not aware of all this, there's no way Trump is. Yeah, he cannot be.
- [40:46]
Brigham
No, they have too many things they're fighting.
- [40:47]
Joe Rogan
He's literally involved in Rwanda having like. Like peace talks with. With. With enemies that have been enemies for 20, 30 years, trying to bring them to the table. All the shit that's going on with Gaza and Palestine, all the shit that's going on with Ukraine and Russia. Do you think he even understands peptides?
- [41:10]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [41:11]
Joe Rogan
Like, look at them.
- [41:12]
Brigham
Well, the healthcare system's complicated. It's nuanced. And the challenge is you have some of the best litigators and attorneys in the world on payroll for these big pharmaceutical cartels.
- [41:24]
Joe Rogan
Of course.
- [41:25]
Brigham
And they fund 60% of the FDA. And the history of the FDA is that I've said over and over again, it's captured. But the truth is, all of these organizations were born in captivity. They were born in captivity. Yeah.
- [41:40]
Joe Rogan
That's the craziest thing.
- [41:42]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [41:42]
Joe Rogan
Anderson Cooper, brought to you by Pfizer.
- [41:45]
Brigham
They're even doing it right now, making it look like the world's turning. I don't know if you saw. Bernie Sanders tweeted, RFK's gotta go.
- [41:51]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [41:51]
Brigham
All these people. But the truth is, last week they announced the approval ratings, and RFK is up seven points in the approval rate, the highest rating of any elected official. The American people are not turning on rfk. Even the CDC debacle that people are turning into the news is making out to be a debacle. You lost legacy employees. You lost this dude wearing sex gear and shit on covers of magazines who wants everyone to get hep B. Nobody's saying you can't vaccinate your kids. Nobody's saying not to. There's literally no reason. I know, but what they're. All they're saying right now is all they're saying right now is we don't want to keep mandating without science, without evidence, and we want to understand is there a potential risk of side effects when we hit a child with this many vaccines before the age of two?
- [42:38]
Joe Rogan
Did you see the conversation that Kennedy had where he was talking about. They were talking about measles and he said, we have had four deaths from measles in the last 20 years. Do you know any cases of autism that we've had? And he rattled off that. Oh, yeah, like the numbers.
- [42:56]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [42:57]
Joe Rogan
You know, in California, it's literally 1 in 12 boys now.
- [43:00]
Brigham
Yep.
- [43:01]
Joe Rogan
Do you know insane.
- [43:02]
Brigham
He said that at the. At the Texas legislature when Abbott signed off on the bills that I helped testify.
- [43:07]
Joe Rogan
Yet you're having guys like Bernie Sanders who doesn't know I. Look, listen, I'm an old school Bernie, bro. I love Bernie. I love the idea of Bernie. Yeah, Bernie doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Yeah, Bernie didn't know what the fuck he's talking about when it came to climate change. Yeah, it's a real thing. Climate change is definitely happening. Like, what are you saying? Like, what does that mean? Is the climate ever been static? Like, when you, like, confront him on the details, he really doesn't know what he's talking about.
- [43:31]
Brigham
To me, what's frustrating their narratives. Yes, they're narratives.
- [43:34]
Joe Rogan
The narratives is that what we've done with vaccines is stop all the diseases. Okay. Are you sure? Do you really know that? Have you ever looked at the history of the eradication of diseases and the introduction of sanitation, running water? Have you looked at any of that stuff? Nutrition, vitamins, any of that stuff? Do you know anything about polio? For real? When I tell people the polio statistic, that 95 to 99% of polio is asymptomatic, it's one of my favorite questions. Yeah, I'm like, what percentage of polio, you know?
- [44:09]
Brigham
Do you also follow that? So the DDT story, Boom. So do you know that the cdc, this is. This. These are. There's so many fucking crazy stories. The CDC was created in World War II to stop the malaria spread, okay? And the first thing they did was ink a deal with a little chemical company called Monsanto where they began to dump DDT into all of these countries to try and kill malaria. And they spread a array of health issues that lasted generations and gave immunity and did all these things that was the foundation of the cdc. And where it gets even crazier is, guess how nobody talks about this Shit. Do you know how this, where the CDC's headquarters is, their headquarters in Atlanta was gifted to them by Coca Cola. The CDC to this day is in a fucking giant building that was given to them by Coca Cola. And in a FOIA request, there is a fucking email from one of the executives at the CDC. I don't remember like the 70s or 80s where they're literally going back and forth with Coca Cola and saying they're going to do all they can to shut down this bad information on sugar. It runs so deep. And then you go to the epa. You go to the EPA and its relationships with Monsanto, the epa. In a FOIA request, one of the heads of the EPA with regards to glyphosate in disclosure documents literally sent an email saying, if I pull this off for you guys, you owe me a medal. All of this shit's out there. I put all of it on the website. You can go find all of this stuff. It is there. And so systematically, fda, cdc, epa, nih, every one of these systems have been built, co opted, corrupted and developed alongside industry. And even when you talk about chronic disease, so many people, there's a big podcast that dropped that. If anyone, it's, it gets into antidepressants. And a lot of people don't know this because I want to quantify peptides, because you're going to have academia go, well, the difference is drugs are investigated and peptides aren't. And there's no placebo controlled double blind studies. One, there are, there's a lot. And we can systematically break that down too. They just haven't gone through an FDA approval process because that cost $2 billion. Well, who established $2 billion? $2 billion to bring a drug to market.
- [46:41]
Joe Rogan
What a great way to be a gateway. Boom.
- [46:44]
Brigham
It was established by big Pharma. Big Pharma told the fda, let's build this model right? So then they capture the molecule at the NIH level, bring it to phase two and three trials, bring it into human trials. The cost of doing that is not what they make it out to be. And then it's a pay to play system. And it's an obstructionist system that stifles and prevents innovation. Because if I'm a biotech startup or a compounding pharmacy or a stem cell company or a peptide company or anybody who wants to get into that space, I am going to be forced to sell my company at some point to Eli Lilly or Pfizer or one of these big conglomerates in order to get it through the FDA. Approval process, I can't afford $2 billion. And so what you've given Big Pharma is the keys to the Ferrari and they control all the Ferraris that hit the marketplace. But then they co opt and corrupt the data. So here's an example. When we talk about science, follow the science, follow the evidence. I work for Eli Lilly. That was my first job out of college. We sold antipsychotic drug Zyprexa. Patients would come in and doctors would say, Brigham, I don't know what's going on. Dude, this lady put on 30 fucking pounds in like literally a month. This is not good. There's something going on here. And so when we go back to the main goal, safety, where was safety on that drug? Out of 12 blockbuster drugs in the last, I think 15 years of Eli Lilly's history, 10 of them have black box warnings. Black box, the harshest warning you can get. The studies oftentimes don't represent long term data and the studies oftentimes aren't looking at all of the multi faceted aspects of human nature and life like comorbidities. And what other medications are these people taking and how do all these impact each other average Americans on four or more prescription drugs? All right, so I want to lay out for the antidepressant because this one's crazy. Do you, do you, how do you, how do you think we diagnose depression, anxiety, adhd, any of these mental health disorders? And I'm not, I want to be clear. I'm not saying that these disorders don't exist and I'm not saying that there is not a medical issue with patients.
- [49:06]
Joe Rogan
Well, it's all completely subjective. It's not like a test that they can give you, like, do you have syphilis?
- [49:11]
Brigham
Correct. There is no blood test, There is no brain test, There is no chemical brain test.
- [49:16]
Joe Rogan
Well, not only that, let's be really clear. The established criteria, the idea behind it being that there is some sort of a chemical imbalance has been disproven.
- [49:26]
Brigham
Correct. Even in autopsies.
- [49:28]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's not real.
- [49:29]
Brigham
Even in autopsies. That, and you know who perpetuated and created that narrative was Big Pharma.
- [49:34]
Joe Rogan
Of course.
- [49:35]
Brigham
Big pharma created that narrative, sold that story. And it was never a serotonin deficiency. There's zero evidence to show that. So the screening tool we use to tell you if your child has ADHD was developed by a doctor in the 70s who was a consultant for Ritalin.
- [49:52]
Joe Rogan
Oh Jesus.
- [49:53]
Brigham
Now jump to the 90s, Eli Lilly, Pfizer everyone's launching antidepressants into the marketplace under the guise that these serotonin. Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, SSRIs are going to fix your chemical imbalance in your brain. The measuring stick to decide whether you're depressed or not was a questionnaire developed by a consultant for Pfizer. A doctor who worked for Pfizer developed that test. And the goal of the test was to simplify depression so simplistically that any primary care in America could prescribe an antidepressant through a simple questionnaire. They set the rules, they set the protocols, they set everything. But there's no quantifiable data that says that.
- [50:40]
Joe Rogan
That actually, it's just a questionnaire. It's totally subjective. So what is this questionnaire? Can we take it and find out if I need pills? Yeah, yeah, let's take it right now.
- [50:48]
Brigham
I can tell you.
- [50:49]
Joe Rogan
Should we take it?
- [50:50]
Brigham
Yeah, let's take it.
- [50:50]
Joe Rogan
Let's take it. I want to see if I need pills. Let's see.
- [50:53]
Brigham
Hold on. That'd be hilarious.
- [50:56]
Joe Rogan
I've never met a single person that's depressed and has a great life. Is that weird? I never. Never met a single person that's healthy, has a family where everyone's doing well. Yeah, they have a good career that they enjoy.
- [51:08]
Brigham
That's why when. What's that dip cover is like, it's multifaceted in healthcare. Yeah, dumbass, it is. Who's that Colbert? The Colbert Report guy.
- [51:17]
Joe Rogan
Oh, that?
- [51:18]
Brigham
He just attacked Maha a few weeks ago and was like, yeah. He's saying that to try and go after food and the drug companies is insane. And so if you follow even depression.
- [51:28]
Joe Rogan
He looks super healthy. I like to see him in his underwear.
- [51:30]
Brigham
When. If you follow depression. When did we skyrocket in depression? When did depression skyrocket? It skyrocketed in the 80s. What happened in the 80s? We moved to an ultra processed food diet. There is more compelling evidence that most depression is tracked back to insulin response and eating ultra processed foods and sugary foods than any other aspect. We're all gonna go through highs and lows. We're all gonna have tough times. But when we're systematically, chronically inflamed and poisoned in our bodies, through our food.
- [52:00]
Joe Rogan
Systems, you're exhausted and depressed and it.
- [52:03]
Brigham
Leads to all these. I don't have cell in here. I'm trying to see.
- [52:06]
Joe Rogan
I get exhausted and depressed if I eat a bowl of fucking Froot Loops. I mean, think about it. As healthy as I am, Brigham does this Work.
- [52:16]
Brigham
Do you think?
- [52:18]
Joe Rogan
Adhd. Self Report Scale.
- [52:19]
Brigham
That's the adhd.
- [52:20]
Joe Rogan
Let's try this one, though, because I'm pretty sure I have this. How often you have trouble wrapping up the final details of a project once the challenging parts have been done? I'm kind of. I don't really qualify for that one. Never. I get done. Okay. Five, I guess. Red. It's never to. Very often if it's a project. If there's something, I get shit done. Okay. How often? But that's just a decision that I've made. I know. You gotta give me a score. We have to score you. Never. Okay. How often do you have difficulty getting things in order? Once you have a task that requires organization. Oh, yeah, I got. I have a problem getting things in order. Often. Let's go with often on that one. How often do you have a problem remembering appointments or obligations? Sometimes. Let's say sometimes with that one. When you have. But that's just overwhelming. I'm just overwhelmed with going on. When you have a task that requires a lot of thought, how often do you avoid or delay getting started? Sometimes. Let's say sometimes. How often do you fidget or squirm with your hands and feet when you have to sit down for a long time? Often. How often do you feel overly active and compelled to do things like you were driven by a motor? Always. Very. How often do you make careless mistakes when you have to work on a boring or difficult project that's not applicable? I don't have any boring or difficult projects. Careless mistakes. What are the options? Again, let's say rarely.
- [53:55]
Brigham
Okay. PHQ9. Sorry.
- [53:59]
Joe Rogan
Okay, but let's just go through this real quick. How often do you have difficulty keeping your attention when you're doing boring, repetitive work? We did that. How often do you have difficulty concentrating on what people say to you, even when they are speaking to you directly? Well, it depends on the person. If it's you, no problem at all. But if it's someone who's saying some boring shit. Yeah. So what's the middle one? Sometimes. Let's go with sometimes. How often do you misplace or have difficulty finding things at home or work? I'd say often with that one. How often are you distracted by activity or noise around you? Often. How often do you leave your seat in meetings or other situations where you're expected to remain seated? Never. How often do you feel restless or fidgety? Often. How often do you have difficulty unwinding and relaxing when you have time to yourself? Always. I always have Difficulty. What's the most one with that? Very often. Very often with that. How often do you find yourself take talking too much when you're in social situations? What? Probably. I don't know what's too much. My social situations are all with professional talkers. That's a weird one. I don't think I. Well, because I do podcasts a lot. I'm pretty good at like not talking too much. So what's the. The options again, rarely. Let's say rarely because I'm pretty good at that. But it does happen. When you're in a conversation, how often do you find yourself finishing the sentences of people you're talking to before they can finish again? Depends on who I'm talking to. If I'm talking to a and they're laying things out to me that are like super obvious, but they're going really slowly, I'm like, let's go pick it up. Yep, I got it. Got it. So it depends sometimes. What are the options? Again, never.
- [55:55]
Brigham
Rarely.
- [55:56]
Joe Rogan
Sometimes.
- [55:56]
Brigham
Often.
- [55:57]
Joe Rogan
Very often. Rarely. Let's say rarely because I rarely talk to morons. How often do you have difficulty waiting your turn in situations when turn taking is required? Difficulty like what would I be doing then as turn? No, no, I don't really have a problem with that.
- [56:16]
Brigham
How often do you got to think, too? This is. They're asking children this, which is going to be a lot more impulsive.
- [56:21]
Joe Rogan
This one's for adults.
- [56:22]
Brigham
This is the adult one. Okay.
- [56:24]
Joe Rogan
How often do you interrupt others when they are busy? Again, I got a weird life, so that doesn't really come up. I'm not interrupting any. I'm not like showing up at someone's work and interrupting them. So that's never. That's it. Okay, let's find out. Do I have a problem?
- [56:41]
Brigham
So here's where this gets wild, though. So now look back retrospectively. Okay. When I. When I was a lily rep and they're talking about Prozac and we're going to cure depression. And depression's caused by a serotonin chemical imbalance in the brain. We now know all that's hogwash. We don't really know what was causing the depression, the anxiety, and all these cascade effects. In their own retrospective studies of every SSRI on the market. What we now see is on a 52 point depression scale, SSRIs score 2 points higher than placebo, 2 points higher. It's not statistically relevant. It fails to differentiate statistically from placebo. There are two things that do differentiate from placebo. Exercise is Five times more potent than placebo or an antidepressant. In studies, red light therapy is even higher, two times higher than any antidepressant that's ever hit the market. But now you've put a person in a chemical straight jacket where you have wrecked their system, you have now created more harm than good. And so step one in medicine, do no harm. Right. Step one for the fda. Make sure these drugs are safe. They're not safe. Even. Even there's. There were lawsuits in the early days of suicidal ideation and violent thoughts because a lot of the pharmaceutical companies tried to hide that they were seen in trials that children were having suicidal and violent thoughts in the early days of being on SSRIs. Yeah, because it numbs the emotions, it shuts down the emotional response. It damages relationships. These are catastrophic things that you're giving these people for what.
- [58:26]
Joe Rogan
They're also connected to almost every school shooter.
- [58:30]
Brigham
Yeah, you said it.
- [58:31]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. And that's something that no one wants to say, no one wants to talk about, that no one in the news wants to talk about. You would think that if there's something that correlates, if there's a correlation, if there's like some statistical thing that you can look at and say, wow, this is kind of crazy that this one particular medication is involved in almost every mass shooting. And when they say, when you say mass shootings, like, here's the thing that gets thrown around about when talk about, like, mass shootings. Mass shootings. The problem with the statistics is it connects gangs. You have gang. Like, what happens in Chicago every weekend? Like, last weekend in Chicago, 54 people got shot. Well, people say Trump is doing a terrible thing bringing the National Guard. Ask the people of Chicago if that's terrible if you want this to continue. Like, do you have a better solution? If you have a better solution. I'm not in favor of bringing the National Guard into every fucking city and militarizing America. No, I think that's terrible.
- [59:28]
Brigham
And the argument against guns is that people are getting shot in Chicago. But if you look at the states that have the highest gun violence, it's the states that have the strictest gun laws.
- [59:37]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [59:37]
Brigham
Bad guys are still going to get guns.
- [59:39]
Joe Rogan
Exactly. And so there's that. That's. So this is when. But when you're talking about school shootings, that's a different thing. So school shootings get. You find almost all mentally ill people in. Whatever, Phil. You know, you don't have to politicize it, but it's all mentally ill people. Who are almost all of them on psychiatric medication. I mean, every single one of them, all the way back to Columbine, but yet no one brings that up. That seems insane. And that seems completely co opted. If you have an industry that is literally sponsoring the fucking news on cnn, literally, proudly, not even hiding it. Right. Brought to you. They want everyone to know that they're sponsoring the news and the way it's been described to me. God, was it Callie Means. Yeah. Was saying this is not so that they can sell more drugs on the news. This is so that the news doesn't criticize the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they don't. They avoid them. They avoid it like the plague. If there was like a similar situation with any other thing that was not sponsoring the news, like, let's take cannabis. Let's imagine that if cannabis was connected somehow or another to every mass shooting, do you don't think that that would be brought up like fucking full court press in the front page of the New York Post and the New York Times and all over CNN and msnbc, they would start talking about it. If it was some masculine thing, like, if it was testosterone, it was like testosterone therapy. So testosterone replacement therapy is involved in 100% of school shooters. Jesus Christ. They would be feminizing the world. You boys need to eat more soy. You need to get tofu into schools, you know? Right. We need to stop weightlifting. No more weightlifting. No more cold plunges because they increase testosterone as well. No more, you know, no more fucking going outside in the sun. Sunlight gives you vitamin D. Vitamin D increases testosterone. Get out of the sun.
- [61:44]
Brigham
Yeah. It's causing, there's a ton of stuff correlating. Lack of vitamin D to depression.
- [61:50]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [61:50]
Brigham
I mean there's, it's, of course, all of these things.
- [61:52]
Joe Rogan
It's terrifying for your immune system.
- [61:54]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [61:54]
Joe Rogan
If you have a low level of vitamin D, you're chronically susceptible to all kinds of pathogens. Your immune system fucking sucks.
- [62:03]
Brigham
And the challenge is that same level of money and power that they're feeding to the media is also happening in politics. So, like testifying here at the state level on these MAHA bills, three bills got passed in the state of Texas. Joe. I don't know if you've been following all that, but these bills, I mean, you would think, you would think we were asking to like, I don't even know, like the level of fuckery that went down with these bills was crazy. So first off, industry didn't think there was a snowball's chance in hell that we were going to get MAHA bills passed in the state of Texas because it's so Republican intensive and a lot of these politicians have, you know, relationships and ties with industry and we're an industry forward state and we always want to be an industry forward state. But we can make money without killing people. We can make money without chronically and systematically poisoning people.
- [62:57]
Joe Rogan
You just can't make the most money. That's the problem with all of it. It's not making money, it's making the most money. And you know, we've talked about this a bunch of times, but it's a real issue. I'm in favor of capitalism. I think it's awesome. I think communism sucks. I think, you know, socialism is, it's contrary to human behavior characteristics that we're all aware of. Right. I think we'd all agree on that. However, when you have a system that's set up where has to make more money all the time, there's only one way to do that. You have to abandon ethics and morals or co op the fucking law, co op, the rules, co op the regulations. Make sure that you can continue to make more money whenever possible.
- [63:36]
Brigham
And you know it. That's big. Pharma is not really worried that compounders are going to take away their profits. They're going to hurt their, their marketing on Wall street, their shareholder pricing. Right. If, if, if there's a competition, if they can shut down all competition and have a monopoly for 12 years on a compound, what does that mean for their shareholder price? How much can they skyrocket that stock price?
- [63:59]
Joe Rogan
Exactly. And that's what it's all about. And this is why people need mushrooms. For real. I'm not kidding, I'm not kidding. Because there's, there's going to come a point in time where people realize there's got to be a way to abandon this ridiculous mindset that our country has been entrapped by.
- [64:17]
Brigham
Yeah, well, and in the state of Texas, how progressive is it that Texas passed that ibogaine bill?
- [64:22]
Joe Rogan
It's amazing. Well, kudos to Rick Perry because him as a Republican, former governor championing this is so huge because he has so many alliances with so many different people. They'll. God, if Rick Perry is saying this. And then on top of that, it's veterans that are being positively affected by this compound, by ibogaine, by this psychedelic. And to deny veterans is very un American. Right. So if you're a Republican, good luck. If you're, if you're doing something that fucks over veterans and they organize against you or people that support veterans organize against you. And not just veterans, anybody who's experienced violent crime, anybody's experienced horrific things in their life, drug addicts. All these different things that can be fixed with this one thing.
- [65:12]
Brigham
And the success rate.
- [65:13]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's so astronomical.
- [65:14]
Brigham
Staggering high.
- [65:15]
Joe Rogan
So for. Let's talk about that. So for addiction, the success rate is with one experience, it's 83% successful. These people never do heroin again, they never take opiates again, they stop drinking, they stop smoking cigarettes, whatever the fuck it is. With two experiences, it's in the 90s, it's something like 94%. That's insane. There's not a thing like that.
- [65:42]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [65:42]
Joe Rogan
That's available. A rehab would go out of business with rehabs. If you know anybody who's been to rehab, very rarely does someone go to rehab once.
- [65:51]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [65:52]
Joe Rogan
You know, the most successful former alcoholic that I knew, he never went to rehab. He never did anything. He never went to a 12 step program. He crashed his car under a bridge, he got chased by the cops, he got arrested. He's like, fuck, I'm done. And he just quit. He just quit. And he was a lifelong alcoholic.
- [66:10]
Brigham
Yeah, it's so nuts.
- [66:13]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's like.
- [66:16]
Brigham
A huge place. And to me, all of this. Yeah, all of this falls under one giant overarching theme, medical right to choose. It's. I don't think that the federal government should be shutting down people's ability, especially with compassionate use. Like somebody who's terminally ill or who has nothing to lose or why would you stop them from using peptides? Why would you stop them from using stem cells? Why would you stop them from using psychedelics? I asked, of course.
- [66:44]
Joe Rogan
But that's just. Let's not wait until they're almost dead.
- [66:47]
Brigham
Yeah, well, we could get.
- [66:50]
Joe Rogan
For terminally ill people, let's not wait for that.
- [66:52]
Brigham
In the data on mushrooms and psilocybin and its effects on depression astronomically show more compelling data than anything you're going to see in an SSRI or antidepressants.
- [67:03]
Joe Rogan
Not only that, it doesn't kill you at all. Like literally doesn't kill you. Like the LD50 for mushrooms, you physically can't consume enough to kill half the population. Yeah, you know, LD50 for people don't know the lethal, lethal dose of 50% of the people that test. So, you know, like, if you give strychnine to 100 people, pretty much 100 people are going to die.
- [67:22]
Brigham
And that's where I'm excited because I do know. And then Secretary Kennedy did say, please resonate for me that I believe in Americans right to choose and control their healthcare journey. And I am a proponent of peptides stem cells. Hyperbaric.
- [67:38]
Joe Rogan
And this is why you see these fucking political hacks that are online saying he's dangerous. This is why all these people are like tweeting and retweeting this stuff and thinking they're. Some of them, I think, thinking they're being a good person. Some of them are classically educated and they really don't pay attention to anything outside of mainstream news. And they're lost. And they think that they're doing the right thing while also playing ball.
- [68:03]
Brigham
Did you see Huberman on Bill Maher?
- [68:05]
Joe Rogan
Yes, I did.
- [68:06]
Brigham
Yeah. Did you see where Bill Maher asked him, I think about 20% of what most he. This is Bill Maher saying he thinks about Most Americans think 90% of what we're told in healthcare is right. Bill says, I think it's about 20. And he looks at Huberman, says, what do you think? He said 10. And then he talked about his buddy who's a high professor at Stanford, said at least at minimal, 60% of what we've been taught is wrong.
- [68:29]
Joe Rogan
That's insane.
- [68:30]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [68:31]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. And the problem is also, textbooks don't get updated. They don't get updated to. There's always new studies that come out. There's always new information that comes out. If you're a textbook three years ago, like, that thing is probably not good anymore when it comes in certain disciplines.
- [68:46]
Brigham
Well, and look at all the botched studies like you and I have covered testosterone and how that was a study in the 1930s that was debunked. And then you had the Women's Health Initiative, which scared the hell out of women from estrogen and hormone replacement therapy, which led to them now getting on products that cause a cascade effect of other health issues. Even if you look at. We covered depression, but now go to statins. Guess who created the screening tools.
- [69:11]
Joe Rogan
Yes. And who raised the threshold?
- [69:14]
Brigham
It was all big pharma. And then you go to osteoporosis and osteopenia. Nine out of the 10 folks who decided that were consultants for industry, industry, including Merck, who made Fosamax, which was an osteoporosis medication, over and over and over again. We can systematically go through every element of health care and break down how that system was captured and corrupted. And I'm not saying doctors are bad. Doctors are doing their best to navigate a system. They're being taught in school systems that were built in this ecosystem and they look at it and go, there's even another person at the FDA that in a blog that they do talked about how basically preventative care is bullshit and that the only way is medicine. And I'm like, if these are the people that are gonna be controlling our accessibility and our healthcare system, it's terrifying.
- [70:08]
Joe Rogan
Well, that's Peter Hotas, right? Like if you follow him online and not picking on Peter, but you should, he, I, you know, he says you're bullied.
- [70:19]
Brigham
But then he tweeted when I'm a bully, he said that stuff. And on X and stuff in the past he tweeted because I was trying.
- [70:25]
Joe Rogan
To get him to have a debate.
- [70:26]
Brigham
Yeah, and then he tweeted, he tweeted after we testified an image of like a 1950s Batman characters and was like, this is who they bring in front of congress to testify. And I saw that and I'm like, all the joke, the Joker and the Penguin and all this. And I'm like, he tweeted that? Yeah. And I was thinking, you're the one that looks like the Pengu. What are you talking about? I'm not taking silly advice from you.
- [70:49]
Joe Rogan
So when I exposed him on the show, when I had that conversation with him about his own personal health, that was probably the most telling thing that he's ever been involved with. Because people got a chance to see, oh, these are the people that are telling you you have to take this medication. People that eat junk food that don't work out, that are overweight and you know, generally unhealthy, don't take vitamins.
- [71:15]
Brigham
You say you'll never join the Navy, that living on a submarine would be too hard. You'd never power a whole ship with nuclear energy.
- [71:25]
Joe Rogan
Never bring a patient back to life or play the national anthem for a sold out crowd.
- [71:34]
Brigham
Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Start your journey@navy.com America's Navy forged by the sea. It's funny, you just triggered this thought when I was testifying. It's exactly what you're talking about when I was testifying at the state level. Okay. To remove ultra processed foods and cokes and soft drinks from food stamps. Because a large percentage of the money of our food stamps are spent on ultra processed foods that are poisoning systematically these poverty stricken communities. Yeah, we're just trying to reallocate the resources and change school lunches and mandate PE and mandate nutritional training and mandate that your doctor has to have nutritional training and mandate that in elementary school through junior high you get nutritional training. That's what these bills were about. Okay. While I'm in the middle of trying to explain to congressmen and congresswomen how detrimental a soft drink is because they don't. They don't know, I'm trying to just say, look, the difference between a very chronically ill diabetic patient and a healthy patient is literally about a teaspoon of sugar in the bloodstream. Do you know how many teaspoons of sugar are in a Coke? And as I'm in the middle of trying to say it, one of the congresswomen holds her Coke up in the microphone for effect and drinks her Coke.
- [73:02]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [73:02]
Brigham
And everyone just busts out laughing. But I'm like, okay, well, the answer is 8 to 12 teaspoons of sugar. And you're giving it to a child. You're giving a child 8 to 12 teaspoons of sugar at a time. And then you're wondering why our children are obese. You're wondering why over 70% of Americans are obese. You're wondering why diabetes is at an all time high or why the DHT.
- [73:28]
Joe Rogan
Test that I took.
- [73:29]
Brigham
Yeah. Yeah.
- [73:30]
Joe Rogan
Did I fail?
- [73:31]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [73:31]
Joe Rogan
Well, you didn't fail, but you do have a. You need to be checked out a little further. There you go. Now imagine if I had a job that sucked.
- [73:39]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [73:39]
Joe Rogan
So if I had a job that sucked, I bet I would have answered very often to most of the ones. I was like, nah, those don't apply.
- [73:46]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [73:47]
Joe Rogan
So then I would need ADHD medication.
- [73:49]
Brigham
Yeah. I told you this on the very first podcast. I'm not splitting atoms on the weekends, man. I failed kindergarten. I'm literally dyslexic. I'm adhd. They wanted me on Ritalin. My parents were like, we don't want to put him on Ritalin. They said he's to go to pre first. I was in a class with kids with helmets, dude. Like, I kid you not. I didn't go to first grade. I went to pre first. They thought I was mentally handicapped. And I'm like, sitting in there like, oh, man, this sucks. I remember to this day, I was like, I don't belong in here. Like, but I just didn't fit in that ecosystem. I was. I'm sure I was hyper. I'm a kid. Of course I'm hyper now. And I'm a grown man. I can't sit still.
- [74:30]
Joe Rogan
You know, I have a new puppy, and when you have a puppy, you realize, like, oh, this is what kids are like. Like, this puppy is insane. So I Have Marshall, who's out here today. So Marshall's almost nine and Marshall's really chill. I mean, he's got plenty of energy, super healthy, runs around, gets a lot of exercise in. But this fucking puppy is off the rails. I have videos of them playing. Like Marshall will pick up a toy and then like Charlie would come over and try to grab the toy. He's leaping at him, throwing himself the air, diving underneath him, biting his face. They're rolling around. He's insane. He can't sit down. And then he crashes. Then he wakes up, he pisses and shits. And then he wants to eat and then he wants to go at it again. Take that. Stick it in a classroom. Yeah, that's, that's what you're doing with kids. Kids are basically human puppies. And we're making them sit in these fucking classes. And some of them, guess what? Have more fucking energy than the other ones. And they're more active and they're more physical, just like dogs, just like every other animal, every other organism. And those ones will probably do great things if they find something that interests them because they have more energy and because they can, they can just, they can blow off all the shit that doesn't mean anything to them, which is like a lot of the obligations weigh you down and take away your effectiveness thing that you actually enjoy. If you have a bunch of things you're concentrating all of your time on that are basically bullshit. The thing that's really important to you, you don't have a. You have any resources to allocate to f that thing. So you're going to be less effective at it. Whereas a. Like me can just laser beam on things and I could just, just, I could just ignore every. I'll throw my clothes on the ground. I don't give a. Dude. Yeah, I could live in a cave and I can, I could just like lock down. But, but that's how you succeed at things.
- [76:21]
Brigham
I would have to hyper focus like, and I. If I, if it's something I'm interested in, it's easy. I can hyper focus. I can retain. I have data recall.
- [76:29]
Joe Rogan
If it's something you're interested in.
- [76:31]
Brigham
If it's like Ferris Bueller' off and it's some mundane Bueller torture, man. And I can't sit still in this environment.
- [76:40]
Joe Rogan
But that's why you're successful. This is what people don't understand. That's a superpower.
- [76:45]
Brigham
But I know I would have anxiety if I didn't work out. I have anxiety. Like when we Were in Europe and I didn't work out. Day three, I'm like, restless, man. And that anxiousness comes out.
- [76:56]
Joe Rogan
And to me, that's like going somewhere and not eating. I'm not going to do that either.
- [77:00]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [77:00]
Joe Rogan
Like, if I go on vacation, I literally bring kettlebells. I have two 70s and two 50s. They travel with me.
- [77:07]
Brigham
You put them in a suitcase, I get them. Oh, my God.
- [77:10]
Joe Rogan
Ship them to where I'm going, I have them delivered. I don't give a. Dude, I'm working out because I'm.
- [77:15]
Brigham
I. I think Kim Zane said he did that with that rock. Did he tell. I swear he told me a story. He packed that rock that he has people carry camp. Did that. Yeah, for something. I remember him telling that story, and I think I got lost.
- [77:27]
Joe Rogan
He keeps that rock on the mountain. And I'm like, don't you worry someone's gonna be a fan of taking. It's like no kind of person who would take. It's too much of a pussy to carry it.
- [77:34]
Brigham
Oh, my God, that's funny.
- [77:38]
Joe Rogan
It's so hilarious. This fucking rock that he carries everywhere. But. But you know, you have to stay healthy. And for me, that's my medicine. I'm not. If. If I was a diabetic, and I would say, I'm not taking any insulin. Well, guess what? You're a type 1 diabetic. You. If you don't take insulin, you're gonna fucking die. Right? Unfortunately, you got bad genes when it comes to creation of insulin. That's how I am with exercise, man. Like I'm doing. If I take a day off, I'm a maniac. I don't like it. Yeah, I don't like that feeling. I mean, I can take a day off. I could relax. But day two, Day two is like. But it's also that my brain is like, hey, what are you doing? You gonna. You're gonna be a lazy now? Is that what you're doing? You're gonna be a fat.
- [78:17]
Brigham
But just that hyper focus and going through a workout, and then you come out the other end and it's mental. It's a huge mental.
- [78:25]
Joe Rogan
Gigantic.
- [78:26]
Brigham
And my anxiety goes from an eight, it's creeping up. Now it's an eight. And then I go work out and it'll be.
- [78:31]
Joe Rogan
Exactly. It's good for everybody. Listen, the nicest people that I know do jiu jitsu. And I know that sounds crazy. The nicest people that I know are, like, regularly yanking on people's elbow joints and tackling them. Then they're the nicest people I know. And the reason why they're nice is because they take their fucking medicine. They take their anti aggressive medicine. And the idea that that somehow is bad. And what we need to do is eliminate all masculinity. No, you need to harness it just like everything else. I mean this is just like the same response that we had to nuclear power. Oh, we had Three Mile Islands. Stop the nukes.
- [79:08]
Brigham
No more nukes.
- [79:09]
Joe Rogan
We've got a problem. Figure out how to harness it. We were really bad at gasoline in the 70s. We put fucking lead in it. And that's why everybody got lead poisoning. Come up with unleaded gasoline which is just don't add lead to it, you fucking assholes. Don't burn lead and blast it through the air everywhere you go. That seems fucking insane. Well, we had to figure out how to harness it just like we have to figure out how to harness masculinity.
- [79:38]
Brigham
I think we're going to. You brought up lead and I've been, I wanted to get into the one, the state of Texas stuff which parallels and runs into the glyphosate shit. If you want to talk about that. Do you want.
- [79:48]
Joe Rogan
I would love to talk about that.
- [79:50]
Brigham
Because one of the things that's happening.
- [79:51]
Joe Rogan
Because I know that they've got an alternative to glyphosate that's even worse.
- [79:54]
Brigham
Yeah, they do. And so one of the things that's happening is at the federal level they are looking to give big ag and big chemical immunity on all these chemicals they're spraying on our food. And they're voting in secret. This is another fuckery moment. As part of one of the bills that's being reviewed by Congress, they are attempting to vote in secrecy where we don't know who cast their vote to cast unified immunity on any future lawsuit against glyphosate or atrazine.
- [80:29]
Joe Rogan
And we know how well that worked for vaccine manufacturers. So maybe we should try it.
- [80:32]
Brigham
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And we do know, let's, let's point this out, that the company Monsanto that manufactures glyphosate is the same company that created Agent Orange, Is the same company that created ddt. Is the same company that with Bayer tested their products on Nazi concentration camp victims, is the same company that pushed product in the third world nations where they didn't have checks and balances and couldn't come after them.
- [80:58]
Joe Rogan
Let's just stop right there. If Satan was a CEO, don't you think he'd be the head of that company?
- [81:02]
Brigham
Oh my God, dude.
- [81:03]
Joe Rogan
Did you imagine it? But if, like, if you said, well, there's a company in the world where Satan's the CEO, what, what company do you think that would be? And then you had all this evidence, you lay it out, you're like, oh my God, Satan's alive. He's real. He's killing people with Agent Orange.
- [81:15]
Brigham
Yeah. And what's crazy is in Europe, they're in, in Europe, the allowable amount of glyphosate is literally almost one fourth of what they're allowing in the United States. And so the farmers and the lobbyist groups here in the state of Texas, when we tried to pass this food bill, okay, we shocked industry because candidly, it was the land of misfit toys. It's literally me. And I don't mean that derogatory, but it's like, it's just a bunch of average Joes testifying against lobbyists. And so it was me, an 18 year old girl named Grace, who's a food advocate, my buddy Jason Karp, who owns like a food company. And then Dr. Hyman, in the initial testimonies.
- [82:01]
Joe Rogan
Hold up. There's an 18 year old girl that's testifying.
- [82:04]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [82:05]
Joe Rogan
She's a food expert, she's a food.
- [82:07]
Brigham
Advocate because she has been able to cure. I don't know her exact story, but her, she's brilliant.
- [82:13]
Joe Rogan
She's literally a Thornberg of food.
- [82:15]
Brigham
Yeah, pretty much. She had a.
- [82:17]
Joe Rogan
She's on the polar opposite, but she's.
- [82:19]
Brigham
A brilliant girl because she was able to cure some of her chronic illness through no longer eating ultra processed foods. And so now she's become an advocate for these things.
- [82:29]
Joe Rogan
Do you know what illnesses she had?
- [82:31]
Brigham
I don't remember. I don't want to say. Her name's Grace Price. If you.
- [82:34]
Joe Rogan
She's only 18. That's kind of crazy.
- [82:36]
Brigham
Yeah, she's brilliant. She killed it. But here's what happens. We go to testify. Who shows up, you expose this. I think I texted you about it and then you talked about it on the podcast. The American Heart association came to testify against us because they didn't want Coke and Twinkies and soft drinks and ultra processed foods removed from school lunches, SNAP programs.
- [83:00]
Joe Rogan
Well, listen, thank God they're around to set everybody on the right path. Thank God the American Heart association is there to stand up for Twinkies and Coca Cola, which, by the way, I enjoy. I mean, if I could just have a day where I didn't think about my health at all, I would love a nice glass of Coca Cola. With a few Twinkies. Yeah, they're fucking delicious. But I know if I did that an hour later, I would want to die. I would feel so bad when I do that. Now, this is the thing that I. Every now and then I will fuck off and, like, eat an ice cream sundae. And I feel so bad that I go, how many people feel like this all the time?
- [83:37]
Brigham
Exactly.
- [83:37]
Joe Rogan
How many people? This is their default state. And then you add it to a non robust body. So you add it to a body that's been sedentary, been eating this stuff forever. So you have this constant cascading effect of inflammation. You're fat, your back hurts, your head, you got brain fog. All day long you're dealing with this. And that's your default. So what happens to me for a very brief amount of time, wherever I drink a milkshake, I'm like, oh, I feel like shit. That's their whole life.
- [84:07]
Brigham
Yeah. And you're describing my dad. My dad is in that system where he literally just. I love him, but he believes in all this that he's told. He goes to the doctor and they say, you know, historically, this is when he was younger, he'd be on four or five meds and they go, oh, everything's good. Everything checked out good. And he'd come back and be like, yeah, doctor said everything's good. You're on six meds, dude. What do you mean everything's good? You're on six fucking medications. My dad. Dad is now on 12 prescription medications and ended up in the hospital last weekend because of contraindications in the drugs. The third leading cause of death in America is medical misdiagnosis. They're like, dad, come in. We can do a full workup. We can do all those things. You listen.
- [84:54]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, yeah. My parents take vitamins now, finally.
- [85:01]
Brigham
And it's like, dude, yeah, it's weird, man.
- [85:04]
Joe Rogan
People don't want to listen to their kids and they don't want to change the path that they're on because then they have to admit their whole life has been kind of stupid. Yeah, people don't want to admit that. They don't want to admit that they're a buffoon. People are so. They cling so hard to their identity of being correct. Yeah, it's. It's too much of what you think of when you think of yourself as your choices and the way you think about things.
- [85:25]
Brigham
And that's where the industry's done a killer job, though, Joe.
- [85:28]
Joe Rogan
I know, but for people that are listening to this if you find yourself in that little category, really, that's the weakness. The weakness is not in admitting that you're admitting you're wrong, exposes that you are wrong. And that's weakness. No, the real weakness is not being able to admit that you're wrong. That's the real weakness. Because then you'll look, everybody's wrong sometimes. Everybody does something wrong sometimes. It's part of being a human. Our brains are. It depends entirely on the interactions that you've had the day. How much taxes you owe that you don't think you're going to be able to pay, your credit card statements. You're. Your wife hates you. You think your friend might be doing something shady in this business deal that you guys got together. You're all stressed out all the time. Yeah, that's. Most of us. People in these conditions are going to make mistakes. You're going to not look at data that you assumed was correct and you're going to argue for something that was wrong. And this is. We found this a lot during the COVID days. It was really hard for people that got shitty with me to come around and admit, like, oh, you kind of had a point. There's a few of them that I lost forever and that have never admitted that they were wrong. Never admitted that this whole thing was like, they get caught up in a psyop. But that's weak.
- [86:44]
Brigham
You've referred me. Not just you, just. Just in general people hearing this. But we have helped so many people with Long COVID vaccine related covet.
- [86:56]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, let's call it long covet. I don't know anybody that wasn't vaccinated.
- [87:00]
Brigham
One of the people you.
- [87:01]
Joe Rogan
No, no, no.
- [87:03]
Brigham
I honestly don't. And one of the people you referred us who's like a mega star, I didn't get his permission to talk about hits, but so I won't say his name, but he, he literally sent me a long email saying, thank you.
- [87:15]
Joe Rogan
He's the best, isn't he?
- [87:16]
Brigham
Like, he. He's a real human voice. Everything is back like, he's been complimented. He's like, I just cannot thank you and your team enough.
- [87:25]
Joe Rogan
I love that guy. I wish we could say his name too, because we can't.
- [87:29]
Brigham
But I did. Jelly rolls, like, tell my story, man. He's down £200 and not on a GLP1. I want to be clear here. Yeah, he is not on a GLP1 jelly roll. When we met with him, he said, bubba, I don't want an asterisk next.
- [87:42]
Joe Rogan
To this yeah, he also. Dude threw his phone away.
- [87:45]
Brigham
Yeah, yeah.
- [87:46]
Joe Rogan
He don't have a phone anymore. He's got it.
- [87:48]
Brigham
He calls me from his laptop.
- [87:50]
Joe Rogan
Amazing.
- [87:51]
Brigham
FaceTime me from his laptop.
- [87:52]
Joe Rogan
That's the way to be healthy. It's really, it's real, man, you know?
- [87:55]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [87:55]
Joe Rogan
If you can. That's another thing that people need to take into consideration when you're talking about mental health. As much as social media is really valuable, I would never advocate for a ban on social media. I think it's really valuable. It's also really bad for you and it's really bad for you if you are interacting with nameless, faceless people and they're being negative to you. Yeah, you're being negative to them and you know, you're arguing about climate or fuck.
- [88:22]
Brigham
I don't even. I'm a nobody. I don't have hardly any and I don't even use it anymore other than for work because of the political stuff. People are like, you cook, they just start attacking you. And I don't see that. I'm like, dude, I'm telling you the truth, man. I get it. You don't like what I have to say, but I'm not lying. I mean, tell me where I'm lying. I'm documenting everything. I have the receipts.
- [88:44]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, no, I get it too. And what you know what's really funny is when people get mad at you if you criticize the administration, like, well, this is what you voted for. Like, no, listen, fuck face, nobody voted for people. Maybe a few people thought that like some of the ICE raids, the way they're doing it, where they're showing up at Home Depot and just getting hard working landscapers and just sending them back to Mexico. Ed Calderon, who's an expert in the cartels who was on the other day, he was explaining to me that they're getting kids that were brought over here when they were two and they've been here for 18 years. So now they're 20 and they don't speak Spanish, but they're deporting them.
- [89:22]
Brigham
Yeah, and that's my thing. You can't believe. You have to be able to fucking stand your ground on individual topics.
- [89:28]
Joe Rogan
Otherwise I'm saying nobody voted for that. Yeah, I certainly didn't think that they were going to do that if they said, this is what we're going to do. You know, all those kids that were brought over here when they were babies and been raised in America and have American friends and American jobs, we're going to send them to Mexico where they don't even speak the language. Yeah, fuck you guys are evil. Yeah, fuck you.
- [89:46]
Brigham
Well, and then what you're describing is literally the messages. I get you fucking idiot. This is what you fought for. Okay, I can tell you right now Secretary Kennedy is fighting for the things that were hot button topics for me. He was, he is. That team is. And we are trying to over call overhaul our food system and all of these different aspects. He doesn't control the epa.
- [90:09]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [90:09]
Brigham
Like I don't control the, I can't control if Congress. And don't get it wrong, it is Republicans and Democrats, but it's going to take both of them colluding to pass this bill that will give immunity to chemical companies. And one of the things I do want to point out because again, line of sight and this, there's so many whack a moles and so much. Donald Trump probably doesn't know this. One of the things, things that I've been ringing the bell with with the FDA is that most of the ingredients in drugs are coming from China. And if we're worried about China and the future of our relationship with China, we probably shouldn't be allowing all of our pharmaceutical companies to buy all of their ingredients from China. But let's get into big chemical glyphosate. We have banned, I don't remember the name of the Chinese company, but several states have a ban, have banned this major Chinese agrochemical chemical company from spraying any of our crops because we don't want Chinese chemicals sprayed on our food. Dirty little secret. What percentage of Monsanto's chemicals do you think come from China?
- [91:11]
Joe Rogan
100%.
- [91:12]
Brigham
100%. 100 fucking percent. So if you have a concern about national security, maybe we should stop letting Monsanto fucking systematically spray our food with a bunch of Chinese chemicals.
- [91:28]
Joe Rogan
Well, not only that, when 94% of Americans, Americans show glyphosate in their blood, maybe we've got a little bit of an issue. But let's just. This is like take the Stephen Colbert approach. It's such a small number, such a little amount. What are you worried about? Let's put all your faith in the experts. No.
- [91:49]
Brigham
Well, even that there is a solution and I don't have all the answers, but we need to raise the questions. We got to be able to have the discussions.
- [91:56]
Joe Rogan
Well, whether we're talking about, we have to figure out whether it's possible to do regenerative agriculture through the entire country. Do you know that Putin is trying to do that with Russia? No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Putin is Banning use of industrial chemicals in agriculture and trying to move this whole country to regenerative farming.
- [92:16]
Brigham
Well, so what I'm talking to this.
- [92:19]
Joe Rogan
Farmer, not saying he's a good guy, not saying what he did in Ukraine was great, but for his country in that regard, like, when you're a dictator, one of the things that's gotta be great is you have the ability to go, oh, these people are fucking criminals. Like, look what they're doing. Oh, they're fucking over the health of all my people. They're making it for their own profit. They're making everyone else unhealthy, and then they're gaslighting everybody, and then they're. They're in bed with all these fucking Congress people who they pay off because they. They fund their reelection campaigns and they fund their superpowers.
- [92:51]
Brigham
So powerful, Joe.
- [92:52]
Joe Rogan
So much money.
- [92:54]
Brigham
Jamie, can you pull up again? Sorry, is. Could you pull up on the ways to. What website? There's this. The Senate testimonies. It's big chemical. So where I was going earlier. So I'm so adhd.
- [93:03]
Joe Rogan
No, it's okay. Where I was going is if you're a good dictator, you go, well, those people.
- [93:07]
Brigham
Yeah, you can fix it.
- [93:08]
Joe Rogan
Not that Putin's a good dictator. You have to say all these things. Yeah, I'm just saying.
- [93:12]
Brigham
So 1. One of the things I learned from a farmer and I don't know farming, obviously I'm. I'm not, I'm not. I'm a healthc care guy. I had a farmer tell me that 70% of our glyphosate exposure is because the dry harvest harvesting. So it's. It's in the last helm. We spray glyphosate, apparently, on the crops to dry them out faster so we can harvest them faster. But that's all in the last week. And if we didn't do that, we would reduce glyphosate exposure by 70%. So it's just a. And we're not on the cusp of a population boom. Our fertility rates are plummeting, our population's declining. We're going to be headed towards a crisis. Elon's covered all of this. Jamie, there's one with. It's. It's a video and it's. If you pull it up, let's see. Oh, because I want you to hear the other one. This one. Ah, I don't know which one it is. I. I think it's organic. Yeah, it's click organic, miss. It's either that one or the one next to it. They're organic. Yeah, that one if it'll play. This is a lobbyist for big chemicals who testified here in Texas to kill the bill. And what he's saying than there are.
- [94:22]
Joe Rogan
From people eating foods that may have had pesticides.
- [94:25]
Brigham
The truth is industry is terrified that what will happen is American mothers will see those labels and realizing they're poisoning their children.
- [94:36]
Joe Rogan
You're using manure for organic foods. It has to be solely manure. And that is the agent of that that creates dangerous, inorganic foods.
- [94:45]
Brigham
A bag of Lay's potato chips has a 50% profit margin. I. I heard Mr. Busey earlier say something in nature of I don't want the price of eggs to go up. Well, guess what? Eggs have one ingredient. Eggs.
- [94:56]
Joe Rogan
There are more accounts of people dying from eating organic foods than there are from people eating foods that may have had pesticides.
- [95:05]
Brigham
Okay.
- [95:06]
Joe Rogan
These are the people who keep going that. What is the answer to that? That was it. Oh, that was the first thing that he said.
- [95:13]
Brigham
Oh, my God.
- [95:14]
Joe Rogan
That more people are dying eating organic foods.
- [95:16]
Brigham
That was his argument.
- [95:17]
Joe Rogan
Okay, first of all, look at him. That fella is filled with inflammation. Yeah, that fella. There's no way that dude is hiking up to the top of that.
- [95:26]
Brigham
What I was gonna say is this is where I was going earlier. This is so crazy. We the land of misfit toys. Couple of us fucking every average day, Joes are going up against the American Heart Association. H e B's lobbying group, Bucky's lobbying group, Coca Cola. Cola, Pepsi. They brought the fucking heat. 31 to nothing. We got the vote through the Senate. 31 to nothing. And then they said, holy shit, these assholes are going to pull this off in the state of Texas. They descended upon Texas with lobbyists out the ass. And I'm getting calls like, hey, can you come back to the Capitol? Can you come talk to congressmen and congresswomen? They're looking to kill the bill. They're going to kill the bill. It was the highest level of fuckery. I had Senator Cohurst, I had Lacey Hole, a representative, calling and saying they are pulling out all the stops, all the stops. And they are telling congressmen and congresswomen, you're going to create food deserts. You're going to starve minority communities. This is a race play. Like, you name it.
- [96:29]
Joe Rogan
They're going to starve if they don't have Coca Cola.
- [96:30]
Brigham
We ended up having to concede. And this is kind of. It was a little bit of a smart move by Lacy and Senator Circle. We put glyphosate natrazine in the bill to be listed as one of the substances that is known to cause harm. Okay, it isn't a food ingredient. So it was never going to make it through on the bill. It was literally a smoke screen to provide ground coverage and a negotiation tool. But it also allowed us to see who's against it and what politicians are going to support. Big Chemical and these motherfuckers came out in the droves and one of the, the main guys from frickin representative from Waco tried to kill the bill and turn the bill into a study. He did. He said this shouldn't be a bill, this should just be a long term study. And then industry came in and said we should kill the bill at the state level and push it back to the feds. We agree with you there needs to be reform, but let's push it back to the feds. And so, but what people don't understand is we got the bills done. We got three of these monumental bills done. One of them require labels that disclose any banned substances in the state of Texas. Now have to be put on the front of a label, almost like a black box warning.
- [97:39]
Joe Rogan
So like RD40, all that shit, any.
- [97:41]
Brigham
Of the food dyes, any of the additives, what's not on there are Big Chemical because Big Chemical wasn't a food ingredient. And the lobby for Big Chemical is so powerful. And that's where I was going with this. They, I mean it is crazy. The lobby that Monsanto and these companies have, have. And they're going to do that at the federal level and they're going to try and get this exemption around all pesticides. And my rebuttal to that, and I said this on a call, is if I'm going to a bar and I'm not going to someone, there's no reason to carry a condom. So if you're not me, why do you need the condom? If you're not the American people, why do you need a condom? You're giving them a condom but they're telling us they're not going to fuck us.
- [98:26]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's.
- [98:26]
Brigham
Why, why do you need this exemption? If your product's not causing cancer, why do you need an exemption?
- [98:32]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, exactly.
- [98:34]
Brigham
If you're, if your vaccines aren't causing damage, why are we giving you a blanket exemption? It's yet another smoke screen from industry to protect their profits and shut down anybody from ever being able to go after them for the damages they cause.
- [98:48]
Joe Rogan
100%.
- [98:51]
Brigham
And I don't get it, Republicans, Democrats, they're all implicitly involved in this.
- [98:55]
Joe Rogan
But we have to also understand that in a lot of countries, this stuff is banned. And it's banned for a very good reason. It's banned because we know it causes harm. Why in the greatest country in the world, do we ever have anyone that we allow to advocate for harm, for profit, just harm? It's not like this is the only way to grow food. People grow food all over the world, man.
- [99:18]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [99:19]
Joe Rogan
The idea that this is the only way to grow food is pretty insane, especially when we have examples. But the thing is, like, scalability. I don't know if White Oaks pastures, if you could scale that out and feed the world, I think we might have fucked up. I think we might have fucked up by jamming. I don't know how many millions of people are in LA. 20. What's the number? What's the real number? What's the real number? No one knows. The ICE raids had the fucking. And the street's empty. So no one knows what the real number is. Right. But just how many people do you have to feed?
- [99:52]
Brigham
I think I said this earlier. Didn't I tell you that there was in. They call them the Monsanto papers or whatever. And in a FOIA request, there's this leaked document between the head of the EPA and Monsanto where this individual says, if I get this done for you guys, you owe me a medal. Did I say that? Okay, I can't remember. Then there's the whole Coca Cola aspect of it, too.
- [100:16]
Joe Rogan
The point is, in la, no one's growing anything.
- [100:18]
Brigham
Yeah. They're just all.
- [100:19]
Joe Rogan
So you have 20 million people jammed into an area where the only thing that's growing is weed. It's the only thing that anyone's growing in la. Imagine if you get people so excited about tomatoes and oranges as you do about weed.
- [100:31]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [100:32]
Joe Rogan
You know, and everybody's like, look at my tomatoes.
- [100:33]
Brigham
Or even what you talked about a bunch is hunting. Like, so many people are out of touch with the reality what it takes to create food. No, I'm just saying, like, even. Even where their food comes from.
- [100:43]
Joe Rogan
Well, where their food comes from for sure. So the problem, what I was getting at is that I think we have set ourselves up where our population numbers in areas like Los Angeles and New York are so great that you almost need factory farming to provide those people with enough nutrition to stay alive. Like, it gets that weird because if you get to numbers, right, if you get to 20 million humans that aren't growing food, all right? So they need to get somebody else. They've pushed off to someone else the responsibility of acquiring food. All they have to do is give them currency to get that food. That is a new thing with human beings. This is a new thing. It's a new thing where we do that with enormous populations. So what's the solution? The solution is one of the most immoral and unethical solutions that anyone has ever come up with. Anything. Stuff a bunch of animals into a fucking warehouse, have them piss and shit into a giant pond that you have outside that literally is probably poisoning the air around it for miles, and then spray the. Out of this monocrop agriculture. Because you've completely distorted what nature is and you've, you've got thousand acres of corn. Like that never happens in the world. All the animals and all the plants are supposed to kind of like intermingle in an ecosystem and for profit, you've decided to like set up this Frankenstein lab where you just spray death juice all over the corn and then you subsidize the farmers so that corn syrup is in goddamn everything. Everything, including salad dressing, you know, and then you have canola oil, which is really just rapeseed oil, and it's a disgusting industrial lubricant that you're pretending is health, heart, healthy. And like, this is, this is the system that we're in right now. And, and most people, you know, there's a giant percentage of people that have been educated by traditional media that think that everything that I'm saying is conspiracy theory nonsense from Bro Science Guy, which I am Bro Science Guy. That's. I have a degree in Bro Science. But this is all just real, folks. You're. You're fucking poisoned. And if you continue to eat that way, you're going to be doomed. Your. Your body's going to fall apart. That's just a fact.
- [103:01]
Brigham
Fact.
- [103:01]
Joe Rogan
We know it. We all know it. Processed food diets are just. There's no one that can say they're good for you, they're bad for you. Here's the question. Do we have enough stake in this? Do we have enough people's understanding of the dire consequences where we can have a real conversation about how do we feed all these people ethically and morally? Because right now we have ag gag laws where if someone like, say if you work at some slaughterhouse or someplace, you're not allowed to, to film the atrocities. Yeah, there's laws. Yeah, you will go to jail. So if you show up at one of those horrible pig farms where they got these pigs, like stuffed Next to each other and through grates and then that. You ever seen?
- [103:43]
Brigham
I've seen that. Yeah.
- [103:45]
Joe Rogan
Film that and put it on tik tok. Like, this is where your bacon comes from. You go to jail. You go to jail.
- [103:50]
Brigham
Oh, I didn't know that.
- [103:51]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. If they're doing. If they're abusing the animals, like there's videos of guys that working in slaughterhouse, like beating cows over the head and kicking them when they're down and slicing their throats. Them squirm around those kind of videos, you'll go to jail for filming them.
- [104:04]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [104:05]
Joe Rogan
No consequences for the people that are doing it. Because here's the other dirty secret.
- [104:10]
Brigham
It's just so short sighted.
- [104:11]
Joe Rogan
Here's the other dirty secret. Where do you think they get their employees from? If you. You're gonna run a disgusting, unethical, immoral business, who are you gonna hire? First of all, it's disgusting, dirty work. Nobody wants to smell pig all day. Who are you gonna hire? Well, you're gonna hire people that snuck into the country because you don't have to have documents on them. You don't have to pay them any kind of health care. You don't have to give them any kind of benefits. You don't have to give them jack shit.
- [104:39]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [104:40]
Joe Rogan
So you benefit from keeping that fucking border wide open. And these people that have publicly talked about this, we need the labor in this country because they're doing jobs that Americans don't want to do. Well, you should really ask yourself, do we need those jobs? And do we need to be doing it the way that we're doing it, where those jobs are a necessity in 2025? Or are we captive to an evil industry that cares more about money than it does about humans, which is demonic?
- [105:11]
Brigham
Well, I think you see the history throughout all industry. You know, it's that it's just.
- [105:18]
Joe Rogan
But it's always a battle of good and evil. And that's what we have to understand. Like, don't lose faith. Like, oh my God, the people suck. No, no, no, no, no. A small amount of people suck and some of those people get power and then they control massive amounts of people who mostly don't suck. Most people don't suck.
- [105:33]
Brigham
Really, what you're saying is, and we've talked about this, but I swear to God, like, when Denise came on to Wastewell to help me start this thing almost 10 years ago, our conversation was, if we keep our moral compass, this. If we make this about people, this is. This is the Handicot truth, man. This Isn't, hey, brother, I love you.
- [105:55]
Joe Rogan
You don't have to tell me. This is one of the reasons why you're on this. You're a really good person, like a genuinely good person. And I've seen you interact with dozens of people that are my very good friends. I've seen you, I've talked to people that I, that I knew, but that you maybe didn't know, that I knew them independently and they've told me they've had amazing experiences with you. You're a good guy. I know. And you're making good money, but your mindset is so on the money. Like do the best that you can for people and all the other stuff will fall into place. The problem with corporations is that you can't function like that. You have an obligation to your stakeholders. So even if you're a good person, which I think most of those people are probably good people that have been co opted, and then there's this diffusion of responsibility because you're a part of a gigantic corporation. Maybe I don't like what's going on, maybe I don't like what we're doing. But hey, it gets hard to do is affect what I do around me. Like when you're a defense lawyer and you're helping someone get off and you know he's a murderer.
- [106:55]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [106:55]
Joe Rogan
And you have to help.
- [106:56]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [106:57]
Joe Rogan
Because this is your job. Like a guy stabbed his wife and you have to pretend he didn't.
- [107:01]
Brigham
I have, I can even have empathy for that because this is hard. Like even running this company, I'm under attack. I mean, we have 500 employees. I'm battling the FDA, I'm battling the state of Texas. We were worried about the DEA and it changing telemedicine law. But then you still have competition and beyond market pressure from big Pharma, there's other compounding pharmacies, there's other telemedicine companies, there's other telemedicine apps, there's other AI driven. And you're sitting here and I'm watching what the market's doing and I disagree with it and I've stood my ground. And if I'm wrong, I let down 500 people. If I get this wrong, I disappoint and let down 500 fucking people that believed in me, that took a leap of faith that have worked at these companies because I have refused to outsource care what I have seen. When I came on this podcast, I guess almost four years ago now, the first time we had this boom, we had only managed like 7,000 patients I go on here and 20,000 people tried to register in like a day. And I'm like, like, holy shit. And people are like, you guys suck and why can't you be in my state? And I'm like, because to get into your state is a lot more complicated. The the way my competitors are doing it is they're just outsourcing to a telemedicine doc that has no training in this disease state. And that to me is no different than big pharma. If we're going to just push pills and one size fits all approach, how is that medicine that's not predictive, preventative, impersonalized. And the vision of this company was to be predictive, preventative, and personalized. And I've had people try and buy us out, and I've had people offer to buy us out. And I could take a payday, but I look at that and I go, we're barely scratching the surface. And the day I sell this thing is no longer what it is. I really believe that it's just gonna be a money I have.
- [108:51]
Joe Rogan
No, you don't have to say any of what you just said because I know that you would never do that. I know who you are. And to speak to the level of personalization you guys do. I get vitamins that are personally adjust to whatever my blood work is. And that's what I take now. I take ways to. Well, vitamins. I take eight of them. I just throw them in my mouth, swallow them all at once. Some people think that's gross. It's easy for me.
- [109:14]
Brigham
I got no water, nothing.
- [109:15]
Joe Rogan
Oh, I would drink water. How would you even do that? I could even swallow one without one.
- [109:22]
Brigham
I know people who will just swallow a bunch of pill. I can't do it. I have to sip one pill at a time.
- [109:26]
Joe Rogan
They have no.
- [109:27]
Brigham
Oh, man. Justin Rin, when he would take his vitamins, he would just throw like a whole handful in and just swallow him. I'm like, why do you do that?
- [109:32]
Joe Rogan
No water?
- [109:33]
Brigham
Yeah. And I know he's a huge human.
- [109:34]
Joe Rogan
But Jesus, that's Viking genes. They're used to eating mushrooms that way when they would go on berserker raids. But, you know, I just. That's all I have to take now. And I'm gonna get my new blood work soon to see where everything's at. I think I'm gonna add a bunch of stuff back in, particularly niacin and then a bunch of other stuff that I was taking that really seems to have worked. In terms of stopping macular degeneration, age related macular degeneration, I think that and the red light therapy has worked. I, I don't use reading glasses anymore when I read my phone. Hell yeah, man, that's nuts.
- [110:08]
Brigham
And GHK and BPC and stem cells and all of these things have benefits in every one of those aspects. There was that study out of Europe, I think we covered it last time for degenerative eyesight loss in using red light therapy.
- [110:22]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, my eyesight is still not the best. Like, if I put a pair of readers on, I can see better, but I have no problem reading. It's just like a little fuzzy, but not to the point where I can't read things anymore. But it was getting worse. It was getting significantly worse. Like every six to eight months I would notice a decline. Like, fuck, man, I can't see shit anymore. And then I started wearing reading glasses. I've stopped that. So it's not just stopped in its tracks, but my eyesight has gotten better, which is. Nobody thinks that's possible. Ask most ophthalmologists. Like, what, you're gonna take vitamins and you're gonna like stare at the.
- [111:00]
Brigham
Well, it makes sense because all of these things are in an effort to refuel ATP. And eyesight and ocular degeneration requires an immense amount of ATP. And as our cells begin to degrade, those are the first cells that are going to go and begin to lose their functionality.
- [111:14]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [111:15]
Brigham
And so if we can refuel ATP and maximize ATP, then we can optimize your chances at these degenerative things not occurring. And that's my whole point of these building blocks, peptides, stem cells, amnion, purified. All of it. All of, all of it. Prp, you name it. All of these things are tools in the tool belt that aren't readily available or even talked about in traditional medicine. And it's not because your doctor or clinician's a bad guy or girl, it's because they're in an insurance model and insurance doesn't cover any of these things.
- [111:50]
Joe Rogan
Exactly. And that's the real problem in this country, that everything has been co opted by businesses and it's not the right path towards your health. And there is a path towards your health. And we have to fucking light the way. You have to say, hey, this road that we're on, do you know Goblins built this road? Do you know this road leads to the fucking Goblin House? Yeah, guys, I know. Way around to the Enchanted Forest, go.
- [112:14]
Brigham
This way, back another you're our mutual friend. I asked him and his mom if I could talk about this. Jesse Michaels. So Jesse's dad is. Is older and he's suffering from dementia. And they flew down here. I said, just get him down here. And again, it's very nuanced. We did a lot of things. He was here for three days. They're academics. He's. Jesse's brilliant. You can tell that kid's brilliant. But his parents are brilliant too. They're psychologists. And so both his parents are psychologists and his dad, Dad's battling dementia and has had cognitive decline. And they came in and his mom was a mega, mega skeptic. And on day three, she came into the clinic with tears in her eyes, hugged Veronica, hugged the team, which I got to thank the team that is here in Austin because those people are unbelievable. I love my team. They're the magic. I am not. They're the magic.
- [113:04]
Joe Rogan
It's a great place. It's very popular, positive.
- [113:07]
Brigham
Yeah. And she hugged us and cried and said last night, like, this stuff makes me emotional because it's. I believe it, man. I'm telling you, I've seen it. I believe it. I'm a believer. You're never going to change my mind. I don't give a. What these people are saying at the federal level. This stuff is life changing. And I've witnessed the dementia. Tears in her eyes. Hugged the team and said, last night I had my husband back. Back, if nothing else.
- [113:34]
Joe Rogan
What did you do?
- [113:35]
Brigham
This is all we get out of this. We did stem cells. We did. He was there for the three day experience, which was like hyperbaric cellular therapy. Peptides hit him with everything but the kitchen sink. Like what we do with, with all these folks and we systematically. Red light. We did all of it, but he's here for a three day experience and we run him through these things just to see if we can launch him into like a healthier space, going back home, reduce inflammation, help with all of these different aspects. Hit him with ghk, hit him with bpc, hit him with stem cells, all of these different peptides and building blocks. Anyways, she, she literally was in tears and hugged the team and said for the first time in a long time, I had my husband back. Last night. It was like the olden days. Like we talked, we laughed, we hugged. I had my husband back and she said, if, if. It's just that if. All I get out of this is that one night. Thank you. Like, thank you. And I talked to Jesse and he's like, my Dad's doing the best he's done in months. I'm not saying that these things are going to cure dementia. I'm not saying any of that.
- [114:37]
Joe Rogan
Dude, if I had dementia, I would. And that happened, I would move to Austin. I'd be camped out right next to your fucking building. What time are you guys opening? Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, like.
- [114:45]
Brigham
But so many people think there's no hope. And people with obesity like jelly roll, 500 lbs. Pounds, man. And look at him.
- [114:54]
Joe Rogan
It's incredible.
- [114:55]
Brigham
He's. He's gone from walking to. Now he can run now he's playing pickup basketball.
- [114:59]
Joe Rogan
He carried that stupid rock. I think he did.
- [115:02]
Brigham
He did that hike with Cam.
- [115:04]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, he went up to the top of Mount Piggska. He was on lift, run, shoot. He was amazing on it.
- [115:09]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [115:09]
Joe Rogan
He's such a sweet soul of a human being. He really is.
- [115:12]
Brigham
He's the nicest guy.
- [115:13]
Joe Rogan
And he looks like a criminal. Criminal tattoos all over his face. Looks so sketchy, but he's so sweet.
- [115:20]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [115:20]
Joe Rogan
Such a good dude. And the. He's going to be on the COVID.
- [115:22]
Brigham
Of Men's Health and GQ now.
- [115:24]
Joe Rogan
That's incredible. It's incredible. Well, what he's done is super, super.
- [115:28]
Brigham
Inspirational and I hope it motivates other people. Like, you can get the weight off. It doesn't have to be a GLP1. It doesn't have to be. And even those like, this is where it's nuanced. Like, I understand the backlash against GLP1s, but when titrated down and unique and proprietary to a dosage unique to that patient and when stacked with things like hormone optimization and, you know, igf. Yeah, we can burn that fat off and maintain lean muscle mass. And we're quantifying it because we have a DEXA at the clinic. So anybody who comes in, we run them through a dexa. Now we know their lean muscle mass, their body fat, and the goal is to preserve muscle because I would argue more important than getting the body fat off. And this is the pivot that I've tried to get Jelly Roll to. And other folks, the fat's going to come off. Let's focus on building muscle. If we can build muscle and help build leg strength and help put muscle on your frame, that is going to increase your metabolic burn rate. That is going to put you in a better position for long term health. Don't make it all about the scale. Make it about your body composition. And how can we transition that composition to optimize Lean muscle, minimize visceral and subcutaneous fat. But we don't want to give up a pound of muscle.
- [116:45]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [116:46]
Brigham
Keep all. It's a. To put that muscle back on. You don't want to lose that muscle.
- [116:51]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Even with hormone optimization, it's a constant battle. You have to constantly be working and if you don't, you're going to get weak. And that this is not a good thing. It's not virtuous to be weak. And this is a problem with. You know we were talking about masculinity earlier. Yeah. Hyper awful masculinity is. Vikings, right? They show up in a boat, they kill everybody like that.
- [117:13]
Brigham
Yeah. On Vikings.
- [117:15]
Joe Rogan
Oh, the gay Vikings. Well that's.
- [117:18]
Brigham
That would be terrifying.
- [117:19]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, that's what they were too. Yeah. But I think everyone was gay back then. I remember, you know when you read about the Spartans, like, hey, it was this unusual. Is everybody gay? And then you're like Socrates. Oh, he was gay too. What the. Was everybody gay? I think, I think it was different back then. I think the concept of gay and straight is a fairly new one. I think back then everybody just fucked everybody.
- [117:43]
Brigham
I'm sure chimps do.
- [117:46]
Joe Rogan
Chimps like bonobos. You ever watch the bonobos? They have one rule. The mom won't fuck the son. That's it. Everybody's fucking everybody else is fucking everybody.
- [117:55]
Brigham
No, it was chimpanzees in. That was that. But those weren't bonobos.
- [117:58]
Joe Rogan
No.
- [117:58]
Brigham
What was that? Chimp. Yeah.
- [117:59]
Joe Rogan
That was wild. Crazy. Yeah. Bonobos are. There are weird hippie like cousins.
- [118:04]
Brigham
I've heard you've been talking about Jesse's deal with the tridactyls.
- [118:09]
Joe Rogan
Insane.
- [118:10]
Brigham
And then I know we, I think we talked about. Have you. You watched the one on Homo ledi, that bipedal primate that buried the dead deep in caves.
- [118:18]
Joe Rogan
Like we don't know shit.
- [118:20]
Brigham
We know nothing about this.
- [118:21]
Joe Rogan
Well, we're learning, we're learning. But it's a scattered. It's not like, oh, we found the logbook. We know what happened at every step of the way. No, we're finding like little pieces of evidence from a burnt down building. Like, what is this? Oh, this looks like. I think this is a lighter.
- [118:40]
Brigham
Well, I know you had Gary Nolan on too. I haven't heard it yet, but where's your head at now? Because I know you've gone back forth, back forth.
- [118:48]
Joe Rogan
Something's going on. But whatever this thing is going on, first of all, from a material science perspective, which is what Gary was here for. Well, Gary was Here to talk about his cancer research, first of all, which is fascinating. And then amazing stuff, like, very interesting. Then we started talking about how this was sort of an accidental introduction. Someone brought to him a piece of some kind of a craft supposedly that crashed and said, could you analyze this and find out what this is?
- [119:20]
Brigham
Someone in the CIA.
- [119:22]
Joe Rogan
Probably, I don't know. One of them, a piece was brought to the Art Bell show. They said that was from a crash from like the 1940s. But this piece that had direct chain of evidence so people knew where it was from. A crash from the 1960s in Brazil. It was made out of almost pure silica. But the magnesium, the ratios, the isotope ratios, and the magnesium had to be from a place that was experiencing what is the equivalent of a neutron bomb going off every two minutes for 900 years.
- [120:02]
Brigham
What the hell, dude?
- [120:04]
Joe Rogan
Right? Like, this is not. Like this would be hyper difficult to make today. Not saying it's impossible. This is what he's saying. Like the odds of someone making that in 1950.
- [120:15]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [120:16]
Joe Rogan
What are you talking about? And then there's this, this alloy that they found where there's layers at like an atomic level that this has been like a 3D printed alloy with like levels of these metals that don't occur organically. And this is from 1970. Like this is impossible today with human beings in 2025. No one's making that shit. There's not a fact you would know, someone would have heard about. Unless there's some blacklisted military operation deep in the Nevada mountains that no one knows about that's doing some crazy super funded shit that they lie to Congress about. Okay, Maybe. But in 1970, were you doing that? Did you have that alloy in 1970 we can't make today? That seems unlikely. Yeah. So something's going on.
- [121:04]
Brigham
Well, and you're with your podcast with Representative Luna. I mean, I know she's on the political side, but I was listening to that. I'm like, to have a congresswoman saying these things or then even Tulsi came out.
- [121:16]
Joe Rogan
She was talking about intra dimensional beings. And I was like, what are you saying? You know, do you want. I reached out to her to have her on the podcast because she made a tweet about the description of angels, what angels look like.
- [121:31]
Brigham
She's like, oh, I didn't even see it.
- [121:32]
Joe Rogan
And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I go, did you tweet this? And she goes, yeah. And I was like, we didn't want to talk to me about this. We never even talked about It. We never even got into the conversation, but we got into aliens and we got into which, you know, I think that good and evil are real things. I think they're real things. And I think there's this very big struggle, both on a micro and a macro scale. I think, think internally, there's a battle of good and evil. You know, when you want to do something good, but you can get away with doing something bad, the right thing to do is to do the good thing, and then you feel better because of it. This is like a weird. It's not like it's impossible for you to go into evil. If the situation was that you were, you know, in another time, in another part of the world in a horrific war, and you had to raid a village because everyone else is raiding the village and you have to kill everybody because everybody else is killing everybody that's a part of us. But there's a real struggle between figuring that out. I wonder if that exists with some other beings from somewhere else. And this is where you get into biblical depictions of gods and angels and demons. And you go, well, what are we really talking about? If these people were trying to write something down to represent a real event that took place, we're looking at it in the framework of a society that believes in aliens because we've experienced space travel. We know how to fly in planes. We know how to fly to the stars. And we know where this goes. We know where this goes. This goes to a better place where you get really good at it when then you come visit us. Right, Right. So we know that. But back then, they didn't know that.
- [123:23]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [123:24]
Joe Rogan
They didn't know anybody could fly. Right. So when. If they're experiencing angels who literally fly and. And. And devils and these things that they find that, like the Brazilian one from Virginia smells like sulfur.
- [123:42]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [123:43]
Joe Rogan
Is that weird that that's what demons are supposed to.
- [123:45]
Brigham
Wild stories, all of those stories. And then you go, like, back. And even biblical stories, scripture, like the Book of Enoch, which I know isn't. Like, technically I'm reading that right now.
- [123:55]
Joe Rogan
I've got it on audiobook right now, listening to it every day. It's bananas. It's the watchers. The watchers who came down from the.
- [124:04]
Brigham
Sky to make knowledge to Enoch, took him into space and gave him knowledge of agriculture and architecture. And you're like, what?
- [124:12]
Joe Rogan
Also sorcery.
- [124:14]
Brigham
Oh, I didn't. I didn't know that.
- [124:15]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Which is probably technology. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [124:18]
Brigham
It would be to people in that.
- [124:19]
Joe Rogan
Area 100% dude, I think we're engineered. I think this is. I think we are in a stage of our society where the growth is experiencing this confrontation with our nature, like the growth of intelligence, the growth of awareness is experiencing this battle with the fact that wars are still going on. I think this is why, like, there's a lot of shock in some circles about the public's backlash against what's happening in Gaza. Like, almost like they can't understand it. Like you can understand. How is this possible? That someone's upset? You're fucking telling me this is the only way in 2025 human beings can behave where you can bomb women and children and any opposition to that is anti Semitic. That's not flying today. You can't do that today because this is a. So we are evolving, but we're not there yet. We're not at a place where we have no war. We're not at a place where there's no more murder. We're not at a place where you don't have to send the National Guard into Chicago because there's 54 shootings in a week. So if I was an alien civilization, I would wait. Yeah, I would do what we're doing right now.
- [125:43]
Brigham
I almost view it as a test. I've said this. I said this recently. I don't remember who else, but in my mind, I look at it as kind of like what Graham Hancock says. What if we reached a level of. Of knowledge and sophistication, but there's a reset button? And I know the cataclysmic events and all those things, and we know that happened, happens, and we know what happens. I think every 70, 000 years, there's. That. It's. It's historically gonna happen. But separate from that, when we look at the cosmos and we say, once you have the ability to generate a certain level, reach a level two society, and you reach that level two society, then you can create enough energy to bend space and time. And in theory, you could fold time and traverse the cosmos.
- [126:22]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [126:22]
Brigham
Okay. What if the reason there's not an exorbitant amount of intelligent life in the universe or the cosmos most is you have to reach a certain level of spiritual accountability and knowledge and maturity before the technologic advancement supersedes that or advances past it. Right. Because right now, if you gave us infinite power.
- [126:42]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [126:43]
Brigham
We're going to be dead.
- [126:44]
Joe Rogan
Well, we kind of.
- [126:45]
Brigham
It's terrifying.
- [126:47]
Joe Rogan
Well, we're certainly in that situation when it comes to nuclear bombs. We have enough nuclear bombs to kill everybody over and yet we're still making them. Yeah, everybody on the planet we can kill. And we're still so stupid that we haven't pointed at each other. Right. So if I was an alien, I would wait. I think that makes sense that you have to achieve some sort of spiritual connection. But that is just assuming that you stay human and that human is the only way to go. You know, there's this very highly criticized video of Peter Thiel, which is kind of funny.
- [127:17]
Brigham
Antichrist.
- [127:18]
Joe Rogan
No, no, no, that's another one. Poor guy. Also kind of like looks a little too shiny to be a reg.
- [127:25]
Brigham
He's a little too slippery looking, so that's reptilian.
- [127:29]
Joe Rogan
But he's a thoughtful person. And I. When I was asking him any question on the podcast, he has these long pauses before he answers. Is a part of his speech pattern part of his thinking? Well, the problem is he did that with the question of should the human race survive? Yeah, this guy. This guy was like the answer they should. Right. So the guy was like pressing up, talking to him like he's a regular person instead of just letting this air out, letting it. You're gonna help. Are you pressed for time? You got a. An hour and a half to talk to this guy? Let him talk. But this, the. The problem is we are awesome. And I love all the things that we do. I love how we create art and food and we create fun and comedy. We're fun with each other. I love human beings. I love our creative ability. I love all the things about us. But this is not the only way that a life form can exist. And the idea that we have to stay this forever, Although I love us seems kind of silly. This is like going back to Australia. Pythagoras and go, bro. Fucking sticks and stones for life, bro. Fuck a house. Okay, bro. I'm down with no. That's ridiculous. That's crazy. Crazy. And what's the next logical step for an organism that is experiencing technological advancements far beyond anything that any other organism on the planet has come anywhere close to? Like, we're. We're way out there. What's the. What's the next logical step? Well, abandon everything that ruins us.
- [129:06]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [129:07]
Joe Rogan
So what ruins us? All this greed that we're talking about earlier. What does all this come from? This comes from famine thinking. This comes from tribal thinking. Us versus them. This comes from trying to acquire resources because you want to stay alive. All those things have been hijacked. All these human reward systems have been hijacked and monetized. And then Stuck into this corporate structure where you have to make more money every quarter. It's craziness.
- [129:34]
Brigham
When. Back to psychedelics. When you do psychedelics, ego sheds and you go, there is no me. Like, there's us. We're in this together. And every time I think I'm. I'm trying to be a good person, there's never a time I've done a big dose of psychedelics and not thought about something I did mean in third grade or like, of course I gotta be better. I have to be more patient. I can't lose my temper. Of course. Like, God, man, I really wish I wouldn't have lost my temper over X.
- [130:02]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, that's the benefit of it.
- [130:04]
Brigham
Way more empathetic on this. I was selfish and I was busy and I was stressed and I ignored this person's cry for help.
- [130:10]
Joe Rogan
This is my point. I think we're that close to not ever having to think about those things again. I think we're that close. I think we're that close to transcending what it means to be a human being. And I don't know if it's good.
- [130:21]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [130:22]
Joe Rogan
I don't know if it's good.
- [130:23]
Brigham
You're saying through technology.
- [130:24]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Cause what we're getting, what we're getting with humans is the blues. We're getting Charlie Crockett, we're getting Sturgill Simpson. We're getting. With humans, we're getting beauty. We're getting amazing voices. We're getting paintings that make you go. We're getting muscle cars like, dude, look at this thing. We're getting with humans, we're getting all this amazing stuff. But we're also getting Gaza. We're also getting Ukraine. We're also getting the, the, the. The banking, the housing scandal from 2008, the collapse. We're getting evil, we're getting demons, we're getting, you know, the. And we could go down the line with medications and pharmaceutical drugs and chemicals and pollutants and all the different fucking scams that are running around in our education system. All of this is because human beings are capable of deceit. All of this is because human beings have these reward systems that are built in from us being territorial apes. And we're all so attached to those things because they make great barbecue, because a chocolate milkshake is fucking delicious. Because I do like pulling into Peterry's and ordering a double bacon cheeseburger on a boat. It doesn't mean that this is the only way to go. And I think we have to abandon that. Just like you have to abandon the idea of not having a cell phone anymore. There's going to be something that happens in our lifetime that allows us to communicate with each other in a different way. And I think it's going to be mind to mind and I think it's going to be through this interface. And it gets really challenging. It's going to get really challenging as to how do you know whether or not that interface is controlled? Is there a decentralized system where we realize that the power structures that exist right now in terms of big tech, you cannot allow that. We've shown that they're terrible with censorship. We've shown that they're terrible with dictating narratives and with siding with, with corporate structures that are doing things that are absolutely detrimental to people's health and well being. And they're doing it and they're lying and they're using bots. And so we know that that exists right now. And if we have that controlling the mind, literal the hive mind of the world, that's not good. So it's going to have to be your theory.
- [132:53]
Brigham
If I'm understanding, I want to make sure I we. Because we don't have telepathy yet. I want to make sure I'm understanding. I think I am. Like, I look at chat, GPT or any of these large language models and they're a tremendous resource. And that is now the new Google. And that is where you research and get a lot of information and fact check things. And right now you type it in a phone and you wait and you get an answer in the future. I'm envisioning like Cyberlink or one of these companies implants something and you're merged with that. So you think like the matrix. I know 100, I know Kung Fu 100. You just download a Jiu Jitsu app and now you know Jiu Jitsu and.
- [133:28]
Joe Rogan
Universal language, universal telepath, telepathic language. I think that's on the agenda. And Elon's talked about that.
- [133:35]
Brigham
Amanda already has headphones that she brought to Europe where you speak in one language, you give the person the other headphone, it tells them in English and in their language and then translates theirs to English.
- [133:45]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's literally there.
- [133:46]
Brigham
It's just a freaking earpiece though.
- [133:48]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [133:48]
Brigham
And it's in your ear. And imagine when that's just in your head and you're not even using words, you're just, well, how about sharing an emotion?
- [133:55]
Joe Rogan
How about we abandon all languages except a new one? The whole world.
- [134:00]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [134:01]
Joe Rogan
I mean, that's probably the Tower of Babel, dude. That's probably how it went down. See, when I read like these things, like the Book of Enoch or like, even if you. This is like the Ezekiel story, I'm always like, what are they trying to say? Someone was trying to write something down to dismiss it today as just fairy tales. And that's cute. I love how you're really smart and you're better than everybody else. That's great because that's part of the thing of being an atheist. Like, I'm smarter. These are fairy tales. Like, okay, look, I don't really believe a guy came back from the dead. But what were they trying to talk about? Like, what. What is. Who was that guy?
- [134:41]
Brigham
I don't like people who have that definitive. You can't be that.
- [134:44]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [134:44]
Brigham
Being atheist is just as arrogant as saying my. Where was the saying? Like, there's 900 something religions and if you're a Christian and you say all 899 are wrong.
- [134:54]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [134:55]
Brigham
Being an atheist is even more arrogant. You're literally saying everything's wrong and there's nothing. Like, I just. Well, I think you've got to be something.
- [135:02]
Joe Rogan
I think there is something. But I think you also have to look at it through the lens of human beings because unfortunately we are a dirty filter. And if you run the truth through us, the truth is going to get contaminated. If you have like poor. Like, if you pour pure tequila through a filter that has cat shit in it. Yeah, you're going to get cat shit in your drink. That's just how it works.
- [135:26]
Brigham
Yes.
- [135:26]
Joe Rogan
Right. So if you're a human being and you're telling a true story story, and you're telling it for centuries before it ever gets written down. Right. And then it gets written down in one language, it gets translated into another language, and then you get a couple of rabbis who decide way back, like, what year was it where they took the Book of Enoch out of the canon? Right. They decided because it was from a rival faction, from the Qumran people. Those are the ones who believed in Enoch. Well, those people, those guys are assholes. Let's take. Let's get it out. So that's that one story that throws the. Like, they had to teach that in the Bible today. If you went to Sunday church and they were talking about the watchers coming down and breeding with female humans and providing sorcery and metallurgy and teaching them agriculture. Like, what are you saying? Yeah, like, what happened? Instead of this one very compelling story about Jesus Christ, which Is very compelling because there's no human beings historically, like, even, like, if you're a Muslim, Some of the things that Muhammad did, a lot of people like, hey, this is kind of crazy. He married a nine year old. Hey, this is kind of crazy. Like, what do you. Like, He's a warlord. Hey, this is kind of crazy. Like with Jesus Christ. It's very weird. Like, you have this insanely peaceful person in a time of ultimate chaos, where the Romans are literally taking people that they don't like and pegging them to a cross.
- [136:51]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [136:51]
Joe Rogan
And then this guy decides he wants to die that way. And this is everybody's story that interacts with him. Nobody's like, oh, I knew Jesus. He was a cunt. The guy was a piece of shit. Let me tell you what, he fucked my sister, dude. I told him, just don't fuck my sister. Like, no, there's no stories like that. It's weird. The story is weird. The story of this guy who tells you universal truths that apply today. You know, treat everyone as if they are you.
- [137:19]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [137:19]
Joe Rogan
And that. He figured this out 2,000 years ago. I want to know who that guy was. Like, what was going on with that guy? Was that guy, like the ultimate mushroom eater of all time? Did he figure it all out back then? And was he teaching these people that? Or was he an extraterrestrial? Was he what we think of as the son of God because he literally is born from another life form and brought down to earth to try to help our advancement?
- [137:43]
Brigham
It's all fascinating.
- [137:44]
Joe Rogan
It is very fascinating because anybody who's Christian, like, that's bullshit and blasphemy and you don't know the can. Oh, you're right. But you gotta throw the human being filter into the equation always. Look, there's some things about the human being filter that are really fascinating. Like one of the things that Wes Huff told us when he was on the podcast is explaining that the. The book of Isaiah from the Dead Sea Scrolls, which they didn't even know existed. When they translated, they found out it is 1000 years older. Older than the book of Isaiah that was thought to be the oldest version of it. And they're identical verbatim, word for word. So that's where it gets crazy. Right. So there's something about, once it's written down, that the true devotees. And as long as you don't get some asshole rabbis aside, get that book of Isaiah out of there or get that book of Enoch out of there. There's a few that were humans. The humans Human cat shit filter gets in the way and you get human interaction with this and then you lose some of the story. Like, what was the story though? Yeah, this is my take on all of it. There was something that happened, man. And we have this urge to deny that this something might have been some higher intelligence from somewhere else manipulating human genes, but we do it. I went to see the dire wolves last month. How is that insane?
- [139:20]
Brigham
Insane are they're the same ones that are going to bring back the woolly mammoth, right?
- [139:24]
Joe Rogan
Yes. I went to see the Game of Thrones direwolves. They are so clearly not regular wolves. Yeah, it is. Why there's always people that are saying like, technically speaking, according to my academy, this is not a real deal dire wolf.
- [139:41]
Brigham
You've just manipulated a great exasperated traits of the dire wolf in a.
- [139:46]
Joe Rogan
You're correct. However, tell it to the direwolf. That thing thinks it's a dire wolf. It looks like a dire wolf. It's going to be. It's behaving like a dire wolf. My point is we do that we with genes of animals all the time.
- [140:01]
Brigham
Well, you and I've talked about look at our own genes, look at our genetic growth of our brain. And we try to go back and say it's because we went to hunter gatherers and all of a sudden we burned meat. And then because we burned meat, our GI tract shrunk and our GI tract shrunk and a boot protein was absorbed and our brains were able to grow. It still doesn't really account for how much our intelligence jumped and our brain.
- [140:20]
Joe Rogan
Capacity jumped over just a small amount of time. Historically, when you compare all the other animals on the planet, no other animal experience anything remotely like the doubling of the human brain size. But we were already pretty clever. Pretty clever monkeys. You know, monkeys have little languages. They tell each other when hawks are nearby, they scream. You know, they've shown that some monkeys will trick other monkeys into getting away from the fruit. They'll yell out that there's an eagle and then those monkeys run to get away from the eagle and then that monkey runs and gets the fruit. Yeah. So they have a language, they have deception. Yeah, they're clever little, but they ain't compared to us.
- [141:01]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [141:01]
Joe Rogan
You know, you go from monkey to elon musk and you're like, what happened? Yeah, what happened? Yeah, show me what you did. Did. How'd you get here? How'd you get here? There's no one has an answer. You say, oh, it's natural selection. It's random mutation. Like maybe. Or maybe that Book of Enoch's trying to tell you something.
- [141:22]
Brigham
There's.
- [141:22]
Joe Rogan
Maybe Ezekiel's trying to tell you something. Maybe. Maybe that wheel within a wheel where this thing is coming out of the sky and you can't even understand what he's seeing. How. How come so many people have these. Just because I haven't had that experience. Experience doesn't mean that that's not a real thing. That's happened over and over. There might be a reason why I haven't had that experience. First of all, I have too big of a platform and a big fucking mouth, and I'd probably ruin the whole party, but I wouldn't even, because no one would believe me. It would just be one more thing that you ridicule. And when you ridicule people for these experiences that you haven't had yourself, you gotta wonder, like, what if they're telling the truth?
- [141:59]
Brigham
Did Gary get into. Because go back to, like, the telepathy tapes and the story with these autistic, nonverbal, Autistic children.
- [142:07]
Joe Rogan
I should say something about that, though, before we go any further. Oz Perlman, who's a mentalist, he's very critical of that stuff. And he showed me what they're doing. And one of the things that he said, he goes, no, no, no. These women are touching their sons while their sons are, like, moving the words around. They're assisting, they're helping them. He goes, this if mental. He goes, a scientist might not be able to see what they're doing. He goes, but a mentalist most certainly can. And Oz Perlman is amazing at that. I mean, he did some tricks where I figured out how he did it. Jamie actually figured one of the things that he did out afterwards. Yeah, we don't need to tell anybody. We don't need to tell anybody.
- [142:45]
Brigham
I saw Jamie. Chris Ramsey was doing all this crazy, amazing magician illusion, and Jamie's, like, calling him out on everything he could figure out.
- [142:54]
Joe Rogan
Well, Jamie's a little bit of a snake. Well, let me tell you something, though. Me and Jamie, when we watched David Blaine, we were like, what the fuck did he do? Like, what did he do? How did he do that? He was showing us card tricks off camera to. To my young daughter at the time. We were baffled. Jamie was watching him. His sleeves were rolled up. Like, what did he do? Like, we watched it over and over and over again. I don't know how the fuck he did it. Yeah, it was weird. Yeah, he's weirdly good at that shit. Like, weirdly good.
- [143:22]
Brigham
Good yeah.
- [143:23]
Joe Rogan
Where it's, it's quite. It's quite a mind. But. So Oz Perlman's. But he's not doing real magic. He's not a real sorcerer. Right. This is the point. There's tricks. And Oz was like, you should not account for any of that evidence that they're showing you. He goes, this is all like. There's a non verbal communication between the mother and the son, but it involves touching. It involves like pointing and signaling. It's not as simple as the kid just figured it out. Out. And then he showed us a video of it and we were like, oh, I thought it was like the kid was in another room, no one was around him. They gave him the iPad. He knew what to write down because it was in his head because his mom had seen it. It's not that simple. So maybe there's some that he's dismissing that you can't discuss.
- [144:09]
Brigham
Gary, do he breaks down a certain brain anomaly that seems to be consistent with UAP experience or did he get into that?
- [144:16]
Joe Rogan
No, he did not.
- [144:18]
Brigham
He's done like these brain scans and tests on military personnel who are trying to qualify for disability. And every single one of them have this brain anomaly. And his thing is. Is the brain anomaly an antenna that makes you more receptive or able to pick up on these things or did the encounter itself create the anomaly? Ooh.
- [144:42]
Joe Rogan
Well, you gotta do a double blind placebo controlled test and have some kid wander through the desert for a couple of months, hopefully get abducted. But that's the other thing. They're not abducting. They're doing whatever the fuck they want to do. They don't really care about your agenda if they are a real thing. And I don't know that they are. I don't know that these aren't just psychotic dreams that people have. I don't know. Because dreams are very realistic and dreams are often uniform. Like a lot of people have dreams of falling. A lot of people have dreams of breathing underwater. Does that mean you're really breathing underwater?
- [145:12]
Brigham
I just look at it logically and say there's so many inhabitable planets now in the cosmos and if any of those planets ever had a head start on life a few million years ahead of Earth, then that there's a statistical likelihood that. That life would have evolved into intelligent life over time. And with a big enough head start, you have the techn. If you don't destroy yourself. But what if the catch is if you don't destroy yourself. And what if the test is do. Does your society reach a level of consciousness that is non destructive before you become an off planet species.
- [145:52]
Joe Rogan
Well, my fear is the only way to do that is through technology. My fear is that the only way to do that is to integrate with this great machine that we're creating right now, artificial general superintelligence, and that we are going to either have to merge or perish. And that we're going to choose to merge. And one of the, one of the things that's probably going to happen to us is all of these things that we love, that we create with all of our imperfect human behavior. All those things are have to go bye bye. That's my fear. That's why the gray aliens all look uniform form, they look all the same. And they don't use their lips, they, they talk with their minds. And that's probably the future of the human race. That's probably why it's there. When you see that iconic image from Close Encounters of the Third Kind, there's something about that that makes sense, right? Because that goes. Oh, I guess that's where we're going. Because it seems like where we're going if we go from, you know, ancient hominids covered in hair short and gnarled over and, and fighting off predators to some nerd who works at Google right now who's deciding, you know, whether or not trans fucking activists who are protesting this or that should show up in your Google feed. Like, yeah, you know what I mean? Like that's, that's where, well, where's it going after that? What's good? I think that's part of what's going on with like this confusion with gender and the fact that microplastics are killing everybody's reproductive systems, killing everybody's endocrine system. Significant drop in testosterone from the 1970s, significant increase in miscarriages. Like we're becoming non biological sexual.
- [147:32]
Brigham
We're literally becoming Demolition Man. Do you remember the movie Demolition Man?
- [147:36]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [147:39]
Brigham
Yeah. And, and at that time it's like greetings and salutations.
- [147:42]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [147:43]
Brigham
Like nobody has violence or anything criticizing.
- [147:46]
Joe Rogan
Normal femininity, especially like traditional wife roles, roles. But we are celebrating women who assume roles in society of toxic men, which is CEOs. We're celebrating a woman becoming more manly. We're celebrating men becoming feminists. We're celebrating men who are wearing that fucking BDSM outfit that that shithead was wearing. And it's like he was posing with that outfit. I'm like, look at me, I'm. This is how I behave. And I Want hep B shots for all the babies. Like, we're a society that's lost its fucking way. Clearly, we've lost our way. And what better way to find our way than a little thing you slip on over your head and everybody's locked in and everybody's together in this. But who's gonna control that fucking thing? It has to be decentralized. It has to be literally, like, connected to some sort of a hive mind blockchain chain. It's the only way it's going to work. It's never going to work if you have a corporation like Google or Meta or any other corporation that. That has censorship. Like, even these chat bots ask chat bots about, like, racial statistics for homicides and things like that. They don't want to profile. They don't want to do that. They don't want to give you answers on things like that that are really inconvenient and that people don't like.
- [149:09]
Brigham
You saw that crazy fucking software. They. That Israeli counter surveillance software they just launched last week after that shooting Mean, that shit's pretty scary.
- [149:18]
Joe Rogan
What are you talking about?
- [149:19]
Brigham
There's a software that they're launching that tracks all the tweets.
- [149:22]
Joe Rogan
Palantir? Is that what you're talking about?
- [149:23]
Brigham
Tracking everything that people are messaging and DMing. The. The way I understand it and the way they were saying it is, they were celebrating it as a good thing. But I'm thinking, anybody in any chat room or any of that, it's starting to get like, very Minority Report. So every chat room, if you're saying something that could be crazy or in a DM or in a chat room or anywhere on the Internet or in Instagram or in a private chat. Cat. Supposedly this is combing all of the Internet, social media, everything, to begin to assess mental health and predict analytics of seeing, like, if you could be a threat and, oh, my God, have been able to. Cat. Yeah, that's. I'm like, then what the are we headed towards? It's going to be like, the statistical algorithm says that you have a 70 chance of committing a violent crime today. You're arrested.
- [150:08]
Joe Rogan
And again, who's in control of that? The slippery guy guy. The guy with like. You know what I mean?
- [150:13]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [150:14]
Joe Rogan
Like, Peter Thiel's a part of all that. But this is not a knock on Peter Thiel. No human should have the ability to have access to that information and decide who gets it and who doesn't. Yeah, no. No human should be able to decide whether or not you can connect to the hive mind of the entire human race and use a telepathic language. Israeli military creating ChatGPT like tool using vast collection of Palestinian surveillance data and.
- [150:41]
Brigham
They'Re supposedly going to hear.
- [150:44]
Joe Rogan
Is that what they're talking about?
- [150:45]
Brigham
I don't think it's palate here, because what I heard is an Israeli battle system.
- [150:49]
Joe Rogan
Well, we should be real clear then, because I feel like I was talking about Palantir earlier and we're going to get sued. So this is a different thing. Israeli military surveillance agencies use a vast collection of intercepted Palestinian communications to build a powerful artificial intelligence tool similar to ChatGPT that it hopes will transform its spying capabilities. Wow. Okay. According to sources familiar with the project, the unit began building the model to create a sophisticated chat bot like tool capable of answering questions about people. It is monitoring and providing insights into the massive volumes of surveillance data that it collects. So that's what it's doing.
- [151:31]
Brigham
And I swear there was an article after that shooting that they're going to start using it and rolling it out here to proactively protect us against potential threats. And I was like, that shit's not good. That sounds terrifying.
- [151:47]
Joe Rogan
And I guarantee they're not going to say a peep about SSRIs. How about that? It brings it all back to this connection. I bet they won't bring that part up.
- [151:55]
Brigham
Yeah. Nope.
- [151:57]
Joe Rogan
So you got all your surveillance. Did you notice anything? Did you guys notice anything?
- [152:01]
Brigham
You notice how, okay, Trump administration is.
- [152:04]
Joe Rogan
Silently employing Palantir to gather personal data of each American, raising privacy data misuse concerns. So this is a different thing. So what is it doing? So this is totally different than the Israeli thing, right?
- [152:17]
Brigham
Okay. Yeah. Okay, I guess I got a mix.
- [152:19]
Joe Rogan
No worries. But they're both kind of creepy. Gather personal data of American citizens from various federal agencies, sparking concerns over privacy and potential misuse of personal data. So what is it doing? How is it doing this? Does it say? It's not going to tell you how. It's doesn't say how it works. Capabilities, data, organization and analysis could potentially enable the merging of information various agencies, thereby creating detailed profiles of American citizens. The Trump administration profiles curated by who?
- [152:50]
Brigham
Right. It says citizen data from the government, including bank account accounts.
- [152:53]
Joe Rogan
Go back to that.
- [152:54]
Brigham
Did you see that? It says bank accounts.
- [152:58]
Joe Rogan
Where was it? Guys, guys, guys. Who signed off on this? Is this already implemented? I say, okay. Access extensive citizen data from the government databases, including bank details, student debt, medical claims, claims and disability status. Oh, you might be faking your disability, Brigham. Might have to come knock on Your door. We don't like your tweet. Oh, by the way, Graham Linehan, the guy who was on the podcast, he got arrested when he went back to the uk. The guy who was on the podcast, who was a beloved comedy writer from the uk, who was talking about the trans issue and how insane it is, lost everything, lost his career, like getting sued constantly. Went back to the UK and. And they arrested him. They had. They met armed police, met him at the airport and arrested him. For tweets. For three tweets. If you go to my, my Twitter. I retweeted it. I retweeted the story. Will you go to that?
- [154:00]
Brigham
That's scary because we were headed that way. We're fucking headed that way.
- [154:04]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, 100%. And we still could be, you know. Yeah, and we still could be. And when people say, oh, you voted for fascism. No, I don't think anybody should be in control of this country. Okay? Any one person. But believe me, I don't, I don't think anybody's good at it. But I don't think you should let the same party that was propping up a dead man and was secretly doing shit behind the scenes, like using auto pen to sign off on all kinds of executive orders that he didn't even fucking know what the details of were, which is explained. We had that conversation with Mike Johnson and he literally didn't remember signing it or thought it was something other than what it was. Was. I'm not in favor of keeping that. That's all it is, folks. And I am in favor of R.F. kennedy. And I think a lot of the stuff Trump believes in, like making America a robust place where manufacturing booms bring back American jobs, are positive. Yeah, I don't like the coin. I don't like the drum coin. I think that's fucking crazy. That's a crazy move. But is it illegal? I don't know. Are they all corrupt? I think they are. Graham Linehan has been arrested at Heathrow by five police, five armed police officers. His crime was these three posts. Look at these three posts. So click on it and we'll, we'll get to see. This is what he says is if a trans identified male is in a female only space, he is committing a violent abusive act. Make a scene, call the cops, and if all else fails, punch him in the ball. Comedy writer. Also his opinion can't have that in the uk. So this one says a photo you can smell and it's all these people that are protesting. I don't know what the Context of this is. The other one is, I hate them. Misogynists and homophobes. Fuck them. So these three tweets are a problem. So the idea of misogynists and homophobes, you go, wait a minute. No, no, no. These are people that are LBTQ2. As I know a lot of gay people that think that the trans movement is homophobic because it's saying you're not gay, you're a woman and you're attracted to men, but you're a woman. But if you just leave those people alone and don't cut their dick off, they most likely will be gay. And there's data to show that. So a lot of gay people, including Tim Dillon, think of this movement as being homophobic. I know that's so counterintuitive for other people, the idea of it being misogynistic. Well, how's it misogynistic? Well, what better way to harm women than to allow male predators to just tell you they're a woman? I'm not a wolf. I'm a grandma put on the bonnet. And now you're in the chicken coop. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And to say that you're protecting women, including trans women, is like, that's a new thing. That's a new thing that you invented without taking into account perverts. You didn't take them into account at all. You didn't take into account sex offenders and psychopaths and mentally ill people. You just said all trans women are women. Well, you just opened up the door and gave a fucking free pass to psychos to wear a dress. And if you don't want to admit that that's misogynistic because you're not really protecting women because you think you. By protecting. Well, if we have to protect all women because trans women are women. No, no, no, no, no. That's a man. Yeah, that's a man. And you're using words, sounds you make with your mouth to distort biological reality. And we're. And the. The guise is that if you don't do that, that you're non empathetic. Well, that's crazy to. That's crazy. And so that tweet is correct while.
- [157:52]
Brigham
Being a good person. Did he have to stay in jail or they let him go, bro?
- [157:55]
Joe Rogan
I don't know, man. But he had. He had to go to the hospital because his blood pressure spiked. He went fucking crazy. He's a good guy, man. He's a sweetheart of a guy. And he's super successful in the UK and he's been attacked because a lot of these people that are, you know, trans identified, a lot of these people, they have a lot of mental health issues. And there have also been people that have been fucked over by the system, including that last school shooter who said that they were upset that they got tricked into becoming trans and they wanted to cut their hair off. They have all this hair, they wanted to cut it off, but they did. Didn't want to give anyone the satisfaction of like showing that they were right, that you weren't really a woman.
- [158:31]
Brigham
It's such a weird topic because it's such a small percentage of society, but it occupies so much bandwidth in the public forums.
- [158:40]
Joe Rogan
I think this is pure evidence that our interactions are being co opted and it's great evidence that a lot. This is the success of the programs that like Yuri Besmanoff talked about in the 1980s where they were talking about demoralization. The goal wasn't, the Russian goal in terms of what they were doing to America wasn't let's make sure that Donald Trump wins or let's make sure that Hillary Clinton wins. That was not the goal goal. The goal is to make people lose faith in all of these institutions. Lose faith completely demoralize them, Demoralize them. Keep them at each other's back. Convince them all that they're racists and that they're homophobes, they're transphobes, they're this, they're that and they're Nazis and this. Keep them at each other's throats. That's why this thing has become so. But the problem is then kids get caught up in it because it becomes a part of the zeitgeist. It becomes a part of the, of the, the culture. You know, kids wear bell bottoms, kids do this. I'm non binary like they just jump in. They jump in because they want to be a part of a group. They jump in because they want to be noticed and then they get rewarded. You're amazing. You're amazing. No one ever told them they're amazing before. Next thing you know they're getting hormones. Next thing you know they're on this road. And maybe they were autistic and maybe they did. They have, they're just weird with social interactions and you're getting, you're tricking kids and that's a part of this. It doesn't, it doesn't mean that there haven't historically been people that feel like they're in the wrong body. I'm sure there have been. That is not this. This is a giant thing that's happening and I think it's being manipulated and I think a lot of it is. It's social media manipulation where a bunch of these people aren't even real people. And they're the most vocal and the most outrageous about it. And they're organized. You go to these rallies. Why does everybody have the same size sign? Where'd you get your sign? Who, who made these signs? Why are they so good? Who's, who's the sign guy?
- [160:33]
Brigham
I do know all the counter intelligence stuff is that, you know, China and a lot of these nations play the long game. Right. They're in 120 year run. It's not, they're not trying 100 year run. Yeah. It's.
- [160:43]
Joe Rogan
What's the best way to do that? Demoralize America. Yeah. What's the best way to do that? Like pay off all these doctors, prescribe as much medication as possible. We have a lot of money in the pharmaceutical drug companies. Companies anyway, this way we profit. Let's keep the ball rolling. Pay off all these politicians. Let's just be as demonic as possible and try to ruin this amazing experiment in self democracy.
- [161:08]
Brigham
Scary.
- [161:09]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [161:09]
Brigham
It's a battle.
- [161:10]
Joe Rogan
This amazing experiment in self government that's really never been tried before. Like we're doing it. It's a new thing, you know, and this new thing also coincides with this other new thing. And this other new thing is the Internet. And the Internet, Internet is awesome and scary and it's being used by scumbags and brilliant people. Everyone is all swimming around in this sea of ideas. And at least according to some people, 80% of it is bots.
- [161:38]
Brigham
That farts. Nuts.
- [161:39]
Joe Rogan
That part's nuts.
- [161:40]
Brigham
Well, and then with chat with large language models. I keep saying chat with any large language model. I mean, man, when you interact with them and it even shows up on my feeds, I see, you know, they know how to target us. They know like everything. They know how to capture my attention. And it's like now I'm like, I showed Amanda a video the other day and she's like, oh, that's AI. And I had to do like a double take because I was kind of like half paying attention.
- [162:02]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [162:03]
Brigham
But it was 100, all AI generated. I'm like, damn, man. Yeah, like what are we gonna do in another 18 months? Like, you're not gonna know what's real.
- [162:12]
Joe Rogan
You're not gonna have any.
- [162:13]
Brigham
I see them doing ads for you, you all the time shows up on my feed. I know you, Huberman.
- [162:20]
Joe Rogan
I get people to call me.
- [162:21]
Brigham
And the only reason I know it's is because it's. I know you're not advertising for that, and I know Huberman's not advertising for that. And I'm like, I don't even know how they can legally get away with it. I mean, I think they get hammered.
- [162:31]
Joe Rogan
But we go after them and we have them take them down. But they. Sometimes they don't listen.
- [162:35]
Brigham
They took one of our podcasts. It showed up on YouTube. It was one of our podcasts. I don't remember what you were saying, but it was you breaking down. Something to do with Wastewell and how it's helped you. But it wasn't ways. Well, they plug in their, like, product, of course. And I'm like, oh, these.
- [162:51]
Joe Rogan
These, man, they do it with everything. They do with some sleep apnea mouthpiece. They do it with all kinds of man. They just this like people. Different rappers will have me saying that they're the best rapper ever. And they put it up on Tick Tock to try to get some clout. It's wild, man. We're in a wild time. But again, we're experiencing great change and it doesn't go easy, and that's why there's so much chaos. But you can't lose your humanity in all this, folks. This is the trap. And this is the trap that's being accentuated by social media. This tribal trap of thinking that the other side is evil. And to combat them, you have to be evil. Evil and. And you have to be super mean and shitty because it's justified. Because those people are fascists or those people are Nazis. Like, that's a trap. It's all a trap.
- [163:46]
Brigham
I can tell you 100% industry. I witnessed it when I testified at the federal and the state level. Industry is attempting to separate and divide us, to turn things into issues that aren't anywhere related.
- [164:00]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [164:00]
Brigham
This is about racism. This is about sexism. This is. It's all a ploy to divide and conquer. Because if we're fighting each other, we're not united and we can't fight industry. But the real evil empire is all these people pulling the strings and ramroding agendas that are killing millions of Americans every year.
- [164:18]
Joe Rogan
Yes. And they're doing it for profit. And that is probably in the Bible. That's probably demonic. I mean, the idea of what demonic thoughts are. What. What are evil thoughts. I think there's this constant battle because that's the only way you get Better. That's what I think. I think on a macro level, like when you. We just thinking about life, right. How do you get strong? You get strong by working out. So you have to push yourself so you're weak. Like, you can't do another push up. And that's how you get strong at doing push ups. It's the only way. The only way to get really good is to combat either. You don't just get good.
- [164:59]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [165:00]
Joe Rogan
Like, there's no reason to be good. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, everybody's good, everybody's fine. Life is boring as fuck. You have to have some evil and you have evil so that you realize that good is so much better. It's a so much better choice. But the choice is not just in, like, on a societal level, the choice is you on an individual. And there's moments in your life where you can decide whether you're going to be evil or you're going to be good. Or maybe you decide, like, hey, what I did, I don't like. And I feel evil. I feel like I shouldn't have done that. And then you have to realize, like, that's a part of growth. It's a battle. And this battle is what we're experiencing right now. But my fear is that there's a lot of us that are unaware of the actual full impact of all these other factors that aren't really people, these bots and corporations and propaganda and how they're. Like that fat guy arguing with you on that video. That's a gaslighting motherfucker.
- [166:03]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [166:04]
Joe Rogan
Like, I don't listen to you if you look like that. If you're telling me about health.
- [166:09]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [166:09]
Joe Rogan
Period. Like, get someone who looks like Huberman.
- [166:13]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [166:13]
Joe Rogan
Get someone who looks like he can fight in the UFC tomorrow. Right, that. I'll listen to that guy. Why? Because he's.
- [166:20]
Brigham
Yeah, it's like you don't eat a meal from a skinny chef. Like, you know the things people say. It's like if you have an obese doctor who's not taking care of themselves, it. It's not an attack on obesity. It's hard for me to trust your decision making.
- [166:32]
Joe Rogan
Hold on, though. Philip Franklin Lee is thin and he's one of the best chefs alive.
- [166:37]
Brigham
Yeah, yeah, that's true. Philip broke the mold.
- [166:39]
Joe Rogan
He broke that mold, but he had to get thin. He got to get help.
- [166:42]
Brigham
Yeah, we helped him.
- [166:43]
Joe Rogan
I know you did.
- [166:43]
Brigham
We helped him lose his shitload of weight. I think he's lost 20 pounds. But then also we uncovered a Bunch of toxins in his system. System. He posted about it the other day.
- [166:51]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [166:51]
Brigham
And he's like, this is from when I started to now. And you can see it in his blood work. All of these different contaminants are now at, like, physiological normal levels where they were at spiked levels before. Like, microplastics was one of them.
- [167:04]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Microplastics are a big one. And the problem is it goes into your brain. Do you know most people have like a plastic fork, like a picnic fork.
- [167:14]
Brigham
Yeah. Sized amount of our brain by weight is microplastics. Now that's insane. Yeah. You. We're like, what's causing depression? I don't know. It could be this or this or this or this.
- [167:26]
Joe Rogan
So this goes back to what I was saying is going to happen to us. If I was. I mean, obviously I got to say it, but I've already said it, but I just got to say it so, you know, I'm not Peter Thiel. I love us. I love humans. I love Peter Thiel. He's a nice guy. My interactions with him.
- [167:41]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [167:41]
Joe Rogan
I mean, I don't know if he's evil. I don't think he is. I think all of these factors that are destroying our endocrine system, making us less sexual, all these confusions, society and culture and chaos and war, all of it is leading us to this leap that the only way to escape all this awful stuff that's on this side is to transcend. And you transcend by integrating with whatever the fuck we're creating right now. This. This Manhattan Project that's going on right now between OpenAI and Grok. And then they're fucking sabotaging each other and stealing data. Do you hear about that guy that left grok? And he. He downloaded the entire GROK database and then sold it to Chat GPT.
- [168:29]
Brigham
No.
- [168:30]
Joe Rogan
Find that. So. Yeah.
- [168:33]
Brigham
Wait, can we pause for a second?
- [168:34]
Joe Rogan
You gotta pee?
- [168:35]
Brigham
Yeah, I've been holding. I've been chugging water.
- [168:37]
Joe Rogan
Okay. Go ahead. Go ahead. Pee and come back. All right. We'll find that.
- [168:39]
Brigham
All right.
- [168:40]
Joe Rogan
The sweet relief of p. But. So that's what I think is happening to us. I think we're becoming some new thing. And I think it's going to happen way quicker than we'd like it to be. While no engineer sold GROK to OPEN AI, Elon Musk AI sued a former engineer. Try saying that name. For allegedly stealing Grok secrets before leaving X AI to join Open AI. So Elon tweeted that he downloaded XAI Accuses Lee of Downloading a large amount of confidential information and the full code base for Grok. Shortly before and after his resignation, internal investigations revealed that Lee allegedly uploaded the stolen code database to OpenAI servers. So they're doing that. And then also I think OpenAI had a situation when they believe that Chinese, some Chinese scientists had access to their data. Like something happened where there was some sort of a breach of security and they're pretty sure that China got access to all the stuff that they're doing. So see if you can find that story because I just butchered that.
- [169:54]
Brigham
All of the AI, they're of course doing that.
- [169:56]
Joe Rogan
Of course they're doing that. Why would they not do that if they've done that with everything else, why would they not do that? OpenAI takes down chat GPT accounts linked to state backed hacking and disinformation State backed threat actors from a handful of countries are now using Chat GPT for illicit purposes ranging from malware refinement to employment scams and social media disinformation campaigns. OpenAI said this week. Jesus Christ. Of course, of course they're using chat GPG to scam people. Of course.
- [170:24]
Brigham
I just look at all the ways it's going to impact society from jobs and everything. We're going to live in the craziest of times.
- [170:31]
Joe Rogan
Go back to the look at it stirring the social media pot. Open AI said it banned dozens of accounts it saw using ChatGPT to bulk generate social media posts consistent with the activity of a covert influence campaign or operation. Many of the China based accounts issued prompts in Chinese and sought responses in English on a variety of topics including the shutdown of US aid, various sides of divisive topics within US political discourse, Backlash towards Taiwan. Pakistani activist, I don't know how to say that name. Who has publicly criticized China's investments in Balochistan. Would you even have ever thought that was a real country? That seems like a stone. That sounds like something that the Game of Thrones guy would write down. The account sought to create social media comments in English, Chinese and Urdu that were found being posted on Tick Tock X, Reddit, Facebook and other social media platforms. Yeah, this is the point like this. We know that this has been going on, right? We know that China has AI, Russia has AI, we have competing. There's Meta AI, there's Google, Gemini, there's Grok with xai, there's Chat GPT which is open AI. There's a ton of them. There's perplexity, there's a whole bunch of different AIs that are constantly right now in competition to see who creates God.
- [172:04]
Brigham
Well, so what you were saying earlier about the evolution of humanity and the direction we're headed, AI in that component, and there's that technological component, but there's also all the shit we're unlocking with crispr.
- [172:16]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [172:16]
Brigham
And the direction we're headed. And we can now edit your genes. And I could edit your genes with crispr. Crispr to change. So essentially we would take a. A male sperm, a female egg, we create that a clone, and we literally replicate that clone multiple times down the chain. And we can now edit in roughly 20 points of IQ. So through CRISPR, you can edit somebody's intelligence by 20 IQ points. That's the difference between Arnold Schwarzenegger and Albert Einstein. Now what if you do that three, four, five generations down, you're being so.
- [172:50]
Joe Rogan
Kind to Arnold Schwarzenegger, you would be.
- [172:51]
Brigham
Able to create super humans. Yeah, I don't know. But that's what it, that's what it said in. What is it the gene editing? I don't remember which gene.
- [172:58]
Joe Rogan
Is Arnold a genius?
- [173:00]
Brigham
No, no. The difference that the Big 20, though, is just 20 IQ points to be Albert Einstein.
- [173:04]
Joe Rogan
Right. But what's Albert at?
- [173:06]
Brigham
I don't even know. This is in buck 50. Hacking Darwin. The book Hacking Darwin explains all this and the direction we're headed and how you would be able to essentially. And China's already doing this 100. They're already doing.
- [173:19]
Joe Rogan
The guy went to jail. He said, whoops, I didn't mean to do that.
- [173:21]
Brigham
And they're, they said they were inoculating the kids from super intelligent humans.
- [173:25]
Joe Rogan
They were saying they were inoculating them from hiv. Like, who's getting hiv? Shut the up.
- [173:29]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [173:30]
Joe Rogan
And they just accidentally got smarter.
- [173:32]
Brigham
Yeah. And so then the problem becomes go Back to like ADHD in schools and stuff in the 80s when everyone starts creating, you know, little superhumans. And everyone's going to look back almost back to Demolition man, what we were talking about. You're. You don't you create a baby in a test tube because you can edit out all the gene defects and all the issues in your genetics and optimize that child's success at living a healthy, happy life and look at minimizing chronic disease. But if we just add a little spice here, we can make them twice as smart.
- [174:05]
Joe Rogan
Of course.
- [174:05]
Brigham
And then everyone's going to do that.
- [174:07]
Joe Rogan
Of course. And then.
- [174:08]
Brigham
And if you don't, China does, Russia does. So then where does America have to do we have to counter punch the.
- [174:13]
Joe Rogan
Thing is, they're probably already doing it. And the thing like China is so advanced with so many different technologies right now that most people are just not aware. They're not aware. And someone was describing that about how, God, I wish I remembered the podcast it was on. But this guy was talking about how essentially what goes on in China is say if they want to get into solar panels, if, like they start producing solar panels, the government will get involved and say, we want you guys to make the most awesome solar panels. And then they have this shark tank of people competing to see who develops the best solar panel company, and only the best ones are going to survive. And it's all funded by the smart idea. It's a very smart idea. And through that they've developed the best drones, definitely the best electric cars. Out of nowhere, China has the best electric cars, like by a mile, like by a country mile. Dude, there's nothing even in America, even if you have like one of those.
- [175:15]
Brigham
But we got the best American muscle cars.
- [175:17]
Joe Rogan
We definitely do. But that's a different thing. Right? But when it comes to technological innovation, they're way ahead of us. So if they're ahead of us with that, if they run the same game, game on AI, while we're all battling it out with each other and stealing each other's data, they're probably running that same game over there. And if they really did steal all the chat GPT database, did they, did they, did China have access to chat GPT to open AI's database? Was it speculated that there was some sort of a breach? When I typed in breach and with those words, that's what came up, is.
- [175:54]
Brigham
What I showed you.
- [175:54]
Joe Rogan
So something else, a different story would be a different story.
- [175:59]
Brigham
I was reading too, that China's beating us in the arms race of energy infrastructure to be able to actually implement this level of AI.
- [176:08]
Joe Rogan
Not only that, they're running around on AI, talking about the problem of climate change. And we need to do this, we need to do that while they're making fucking shitloads of coal factories in China. It's like they're playing this multi level game and they're using all of our cultural hotspots, all the things that we like to argue about, gay marriage and this and that, and prayer in schools. And you think it's organic. You think people are really fighting in the street for all these things, but it's not. It's other countries want us doing this, including our own country.
- [176:43]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [176:44]
Joe Rogan
One of the wild things that Representative Luna said when she Was here, here. One of the wild things she said there's a lot of problems they don't want to solve so that they could fundraise against them.
- [176:57]
Brigham
Wow.
- [176:58]
Joe Rogan
And I was like, that is so dark. And I believe it. I never thought about it that way, but I believe it, it makes sense. I think marijuana legalization is one of those. I think it's one of those. I think there's a few of those things out there that now it's dark, but I think it's true. I think they don't want solutions, they want to keep.
- [177:22]
Brigham
The biggest thing that I think about is I see just in my sector of healthcare and compounding how much AI is going to impact workplace and infrastructure and just reality. Like at our pharmacy we have almost 300 people and we were looking at this software. I needed to expand and hire more people. I needed 200 people. We can't hire fast enough. And I'm looking at this and we're going, if we implement this AI, we can reallocate 200 people and not have to go hire 200 people. And then we just get to promote the people who are already with us. But at what point does the AI just get to a point where it's doing all of our jobs, like all of our jobs. And it will. Even in his own blog he's talking about eight years ago how we don't understand that this is going to repeat replace almost all jobs in America, everywhere in the world.
- [178:19]
Joe Rogan
Who's that dude? Is a Diary of a CEO host. You know that?
- [178:22]
Brigham
Oh yeah, I know who you're talking about. I don't know his name.
- [178:24]
Joe Rogan
What is his name? Jamie?
- [178:25]
Brigham
The British guy?
- [178:26]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. No, no, no.
- [178:33]
Brigham
And candidly, it does it better.
- [178:37]
Joe Rogan
Stephen Bartlett. So he was having a conversation with someone where he was saying that one of his friends, he knows someone who's like a AI guy and privately he, he talks very different than he does publicly. Publicly he's talking about, oh, it's gonna be amazing, you know, it's gonna be benef. But in private he's like, this is gonna be crazy and no one's ready for it. And that's what I think. I agree.
- [179:02]
Brigham
And then the humanoid robots, you watching all that? Cause they're evolving quick.
- [179:06]
Joe Rogan
That's gonna be interesting. But I think that's a side project that's like a, it's a distraction. The, the, the real thing is going to be non physical. The real thing is going to be this bizarre connection that we have to this ultimate intelligence is going to be pumped Straight into your dome. You're not going to want to fuck that robot when you're, when you're literally plugged into the matrix, like the physical like sex robot that everybody dreams of. There's going to be a few losers, like live in the hills and, you know, wear overalls and fucking kill squirrels all day. And then they have this sex robot. They come home and maybe. I think most people are going to integrate and it's going to be just like cell phones. Like most people, you know, I know a lot of people, like, ah, I don't even carry your cell phone.
- [179:49]
Brigham
I and think you're saying that. And you have one of the most interesting, colorful lives. Imagine the person who's just grinding and showing up to their job every day that they hate and. Yeah, and they can escape. Like they, they already are escaping in these virtual worlds. Like even kids, like, it's different with kids. I, I, I, like, I watched younger kids now they hang out with their friends and like online, like they don't go, like have to ride over, like we rode bikes over to our friends houses and stuff. They would all hang out and play whatever that Roblox or whatever it is with their friends.
- [180:24]
Joe Rogan
Yep, yep.
- [180:25]
Brigham
In chat rooms.
- [180:26]
Joe Rogan
But hey, I used to do that. I used to get online and, and play my friends on Quake. There were friends I was only friends with online. Yeah, but it's fun, you know, and when right now, you know, you're dealing with just looking at a screen when you're actually in the game, then things are going to get real weird. Things are going to get so fucking strange because already these like, Meta glasses, those fucking things that you put on. What are the Oculus system, what is it called, Jamie? What does Meta call it? What? They're, they're their latest and greatest virtual reality. The virtual reality headset. Sorry. Meta Quest, dude. Pretty fucking incredible. Pretty fun, Pretty exciting, you know, and once they figure out haptic feedback, like legitimate haptic feedback, especially if, if there's some sort of an interface, if it doesn't have to be even installed. It was something that just clamps to your forehead and gets a reading on your brain the same way like, like when you look at your phone, it opens up because it, you do that stupid thing, the face id.
- [181:26]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [181:26]
Joe Rogan
Where you like program the image of your phone on an iPhone. It just recognizes you. Oh, hello, Brigham. Like it knows your brain signals and it's like, close your eyes and count back from 10. Nine.
- [181:38]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [181:39]
Joe Rogan
Eight. And then you see the whole consciousness sink down. And now all Of a sudden you're in a warehouse. Choose your armor. Like yeah. And you put an armor on.
- [181:49]
Brigham
It's Black Mirror. We're going to be living in Black Mirror.
- [181:52]
Joe Rogan
What the weapons do and what, what zombies are the most dangerous. Like. Okay, okay. And then they just fucking open it up.
- [182:01]
Brigham
It does sound fun. As long as we don't don't all. You know, it's gonna be.
- [182:04]
Joe Rogan
It's gonna be very fun. But there's always gonna be some that's controlling the entire system. And this is why you have to have everything that it's got to be decentralized. Everything has got to be like a blockchain. It's got to be like Bitcoin. It has to be like that. It can't. It can't be. There's a group. Once it gets to this insanely potent computing power where it's a life form. You can't have anybody think how addictive.
- [182:32]
Brigham
People think of the addiction and the dopamine response to social media.
- [182:36]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [182:36]
Brigham
And multiply that times impunity.
- [182:38]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Times.
- [182:39]
Brigham
I mean we're.
- [182:40]
Joe Rogan
You're. Because regular life, like if you're a. If you're working at a desk, you know, you're just making tuna fish sandwiches and hanging out with the boys and.
- [182:49]
Brigham
You know, hanging with the boys and.
- [182:52]
Joe Rogan
You get out of there and you're a knight. You're a knight and you're battling with demons and you're fucking riding a horse in Game of Thrones. Like really. Like that's totally possible.
- [183:06]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [183:07]
Joe Rogan
It's not even that far away. Cuz what you can see visually right now when they do these video games that are available today. The Unreal Engine is so good, dude. It's so good that all it have to do is be virtual and then figure out how to emulate movement and how to get you to feel like you're moving. And that's probably just manipulating some part of your brain that it scans out. It probably figures out what you know, maybe you have to shoot.
- [183:36]
Brigham
I believe all this though because even Elon on here, he was talking about how we can help you see in infrared. Like through this technology we can create. Create the impulse signals or whatever in the brain that allow you to see in infrared.
- [183:50]
Joe Rogan
Did you see those night vision contact lenses they've created?
- [183:53]
Brigham
No, bro.
- [183:54]
Joe Rogan
They've created night vision contact lenses.
- [183:57]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [183:57]
Joe Rogan
See, you can find that Jim in banana contacts. Put them in and now you're a wolf.
- [184:06]
Brigham
But then the same thing we're talking about with crisper and gene editing. Right it's going to be the same thing when everyone has an implant and I can download Jiu Jitsu in my brain. You're at a disadvantage if you don't have the implant. Well, not only that, how can you compete?
- [184:19]
Joe Rogan
You can't. You're going to have to join. These contact lenses give people infrared vision even with their eyes shut. With their fucking eyes shut. That's nuts. New way of seeing infrared light without the need for chunky night vision goggles. Researchers will be the first contact lenses to convey infrared video. And the devices work even when people have their eyes closed. Holy fuck, dude. Now imagine when that's. If you're blind and they say, Brigham, we can actually give you eyesight. But you're gonna have like super eyesight.
- [184:52]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [184:52]
Joe Rogan
Like your eyesight will be way but. So people are eventually gonna get their eyeballs plucked out. And like I'm, I, I'm tired of wearing readers.
- [184:59]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [185:00]
Joe Rogan
I'm gonna go in and get the new eyeballs and you're gonna put on these Monsanto derived eyeballs walls.
- [185:10]
Brigham
They even said you would be able to have Eagle Eye mode. And he was breaking all that down where you could see at a high resolution at a distance.
- [185:17]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [185:18]
Brigham
Geothermal.
- [185:19]
Joe Rogan
Like I don't think you could stop it. And this is the thing with people. Oh, God, you're so cynical. I'm not. I'm not. I love people. I love people and I love life.
- [185:29]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [185:29]
Joe Rogan
I think this is happening whether we like it or not. And I don't necessarily know that it's a bad thing. Thing.
- [185:35]
Brigham
I think, I don't know if that's true, but James Cameron. Is that a fake tweet? I reposted it because I'm dumbass. But it was James Cameron said, I warned you guys 30 years ago and I reposted that. It, it was all over media. So I'm like, I don't know if it's real or not, but it's funny.
- [185:51]
Joe Rogan
He's a clever guy. He probably did post that. He's right. So was the, you know, the really fucking scary thing. You know who's right? The fucking Unabomber was right. That was the Unabomber's whole manifesto is that technology is going to kill the human race. He said it, but just not in a tweet. I warned you guys in 1984. He didn't listen. Sure. Look, I mean you've got. Yeah, that's nuts. That's even better.
- [186:13]
Brigham
Have you seen the new Alien on Hulu?
- [186:15]
Joe Rogan
I haven't watched it.
- [186:16]
Brigham
I like it.
- [186:17]
Joe Rogan
I'm on episode two.
- [186:18]
Brigham
But think about that. You're a physical avatar, right? You're terminally ill. What if we can take your consciousness and put it into a body? Or there's not even a. There's just like a. I don't even. A humanoid biologic thing.
- [186:29]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [186:30]
Brigham
Which is what? What?
- [186:31]
Joe Rogan
And it has to be grown. You're a child.
- [186:33]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [186:33]
Joe Rogan
Cuz it doesn't grow. It's weird.
- [186:35]
Brigham
I like the angle they took. I thought it was really good.
- [186:37]
Joe Rogan
And it brings the aliens back to my favorite kind of aliens, which you don't see a lot of them and they're scary as and they're really clever. The problem with James Cameron's version of aliens is now all sudden they're easy to shoot and everyone's just gunning them down. You're killing tons of them. The first alien was hiding all the time. Like you didn't see until it wanted to be seen.
- [186:56]
Brigham
Yeah. Then you go into the den and she's literally just planting eggs in everyone.
- [187:00]
Joe Rogan
She's a dumbass. Yeah, yeah.
- [187:01]
Brigham
The.
- [187:02]
Joe Rogan
The first one was like creepier. Yeah, it was. It was. It was a hunting alien. It was like going after people and hunting them.
- [187:11]
Brigham
And the other one's Prometheus. That plays into everything we're talking about. People hated Prometheus. A lot of people. But I liked it. I liked it when he literally asked his creator, Peter, the guy who invented the humanoid robot, and he asked him, what makes you more important than me? And he said, because you will die. You will wither away. You will do all these things, but I will be here and I won't lose my consciousness. I won't lose my. All this stuff. He's like. He's gaining like consciousness in the moment and he's asking. And that's the. Where it's like, dude. Yeah. Like, we keep making things smarter and smarter and smarter. What is consciousness? We don't even know what it is.
- [187:50]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, well, that's the interesting thing about these movies, like the Alien movies in particular, especially the television show, because the television show, different than the movies, adopted a 1970s framework for technology in 2120. You know what I mean?
- [188:06]
Brigham
Yeah. It still has the shitty little green screens.
- [188:10]
Joe Rogan
Everything's shitty. The screens are shitty. Like the televisions, they're like regular old school TVs that you have to slap to get to work. Work. It's weird. So they have like this weird. And then there's the robot thing, you know, the. The robot guy who's in every One of them like the S, like in synthetic robot.
- [188:27]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [188:27]
Joe Rogan
Why, why not just send all synthetic robo. Why do you have any people on this thing if you got synthetic robots that don't die? You have aliens out there.
- [188:35]
Brigham
Well then you go back to like what A lot of the UAP whistleblowers are saying that. Because I've gotten to meet a lot of these guys too and they start saying that grays are synthetic biologics that are almost like hive mind avatars. And again, I'm not saying I believe it, I'm not. I'm just saying it's interesting. And like a lot of the stuff that's been in folklore forever now starts to make more and more like theoretical framework sense for why and how you would navigate some new environment especially and why you'd leave bodies and not give a shit.
- [189:09]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [189:11]
Brigham
If there's any truth to any of it.
- [189:13]
Joe Rogan
If there's any. But that's the problem. We're both saying if. Because neither one of us have seen an alien, unfortunately, you know, But I've.
- [189:20]
Brigham
Talked to enough really smart people that you start going, man. And I know, I tried to get Jamie to chime in. He's always.
- [189:27]
Joe Rogan
Jamie goes back and forth with it just like I do. We have conversations about it all the time. Don't you go? But where you at right now? I don't know. This week it's probably mostly. But I, I'm trying to, I'm not tracking it this week really, to be honest with you. But we, we both go back. You would agree with that? We both go back.
- [189:48]
Brigham
Yeah, I go back and forth, but it's mainly if I really self diagnose it's ego. I get frustrated and I go, it's all. If it was real. But there is a lot of kinks in the armor. And if just statistically, I'm not saying that little green men are visiting, but there's statistically like a high probability that there's intelligent life out there. And then statistically, did that life have a head start and did it reach intelligent life?
- [190:14]
Joe Rogan
Right. And did it escape whatever the problems are with natural disasters that we experience? Because one of the things, if there is a reset in our society, it's usually because of an asteroid impact or a super volcano blows off or a tsunami wipes out a city. The society has to have developed technological capabilities that help negate all those things. And so wouldn't a society like that be able to live in the ocean? And if that's the case, maybe that's what's going on because it seems like there's a lot of activity that, that takes place in a place where we've only explored 5% and that's the oceans. And there's so many, many sightings of these trans medium crafts, including video of things going into the water with no splash and, and especially videos that were generated at a time where they didn't have the sophisticated CGI that they have today. So, you know, if I saw that today, I'd be like, well, if that's from 2025, who knows who made that that you could have made that on chat GPT.
- [191:15]
Brigham
And that's where I'm going. You talk to. I know you've interviewed Commander Fravor. I had the opportunity to meet and talk to him. Him, like in private, in a group of people. And his. I mean, the guy knows his. He knows the black ops. He knows everything. And this is 20 something years ago, 2004. And his thing is there is no way in hell. I mean, it would have been moving at 35,000 miles per hour and been transmedium.
- [191:41]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [191:42]
Brigham
Literally 20 years ago.
- [191:43]
Joe Rogan
And the idea that someone is inside of that is ridiculous. Like, you would be jealous Low. Yeah, if it's a traditional propulsion system, which, by the way, it didn't have any signatures of a traditional propulsion system. There's no like, heat blasting up the airplane.
- [191:57]
Brigham
The craziest thing he said, though, which I don't. I didn't fully understand on the podcast, is when he kept saying, it knew our set point. It knew our set point or whatever. That's not programmed in anywhere. No, that's just in the pilot's head.
- [192:11]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [192:13]
Brigham
So how did it know the set point?
- [192:14]
Joe Rogan
Did you hear what Gary Nolan said about it?
- [192:16]
Brigham
No, I haven't listened to that one. I'm going to listen to it, though.
- [192:18]
Joe Rogan
He said that the amount of force that it would take. So this thing is. Let's just say this thing weighs 2 tons, which is like a car. You know, like a lot of cars are like 4,000 pounds. So this thing weighs two tons. And it went from, you know, sea level to 50,000ft above sea level in less than a second. So whether or not that's even physically possible, the amount of energy that it would take to generate to move £4,000 that quick would be the more than the total energy generated by the United States in a year.
- [192:55]
Brigham
It's nuts.
- [192:57]
Joe Rogan
And it has to do it instantaneously.
- [192:58]
Brigham
That's when you start seeing all these.
- [193:00]
Joe Rogan
Things and then you layer in the.
- [193:01]
Brigham
Jesse stuff and all this shit, all the work Jesse's done and his deep dives into history and FOIA documents and disclosures and you just start going, what the hell?
- [193:11]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, you go, what the hell? But it's funny. And that's how I treat it. I treat it like it's fun. Because I really don't know. I love the tridactyl mummies. I'm fascinated by it. And I think Jesse's. I think he deserves, you know, if journalism was really what it could have been today, if they had just sort of accepted independent journalism and celebrated it instead of saying like only corporate sponsored, mainstream, gigantic journalism is real journalism. Which is obviously, obviously the opposite of what's true. Jesse would get an award if the world was just. He would get an award. He would get an award for that particular show that he did on those tridactyl mummies. Because that is crazy. When they did those scans and you see the ligament and guys like Gary, who is a legitimate scientist, like published at Stanford, who's looking at that thing and saying, this doesn't make any sense. Like this looks like a real creature. Everything is in place. We don't know what it is. We don't. Is that a genetic anomaly? Like, we have to study that. This is a crazy opportunity to study. And these just. Folks just have it in Peru, just have a few of them laying around the fetal position. These aliens with three toes and three fingers and it seems to be a real body. And Jesse stuck his neck out and went down to Peru and filmed these things and they did these medical scans on them so you could see what the actual, actual. What's underneath all that, you know, white tissue looking stuff is. This just sticks.
- [194:40]
Brigham
And yeah, you want. You look at it and it seems too convenient and too crazy. But then when you watch him systematically break down and all these thought leaders and all these experts and all these different people giving their lens and then you see these MRIs and you're like, you didn't make those hands. No, like these would have been not.
- [194:58]
Joe Rogan
Only that, 1700 years ago. You didn't make naked. That's the weird thing. And how about the one of them that has a fetus inside of it?
- [195:05]
Brigham
And then the name of the region.
- [195:07]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, what the hell?
- [195:09]
Brigham
What did he say the name of that? He says it in the documentary. But the name of the region is like, I don't even know insemination and something, something. Or I'm like, what?
- [195:18]
Joe Rogan
Dude, those are probably aliens. And that's probably a form of human. That's probably what we're gonna find out if they do a DNA, if someone lets them do DNA tests on those things. Things. And there's DNA to extract and they run a sequence on it. I bet we find out that we are like them. Yeah, I bet they're the overlords.
- [195:35]
Brigham
Interesting.
- [195:39]
Joe Rogan
The weird thing about the Peru stuff is not just the mummies, it's the ancient architecture. It's Machu Picchu, you know, it's all these like really unexplained enormous stones that were placed in incredible ways where, where everything is like tongue and groove. Like where it would respond well to earthquakes. Like a technology to avoid earthquakes with massive monolithic stones. When you're looking at them, you're like, how did you move this? Like, who did this? Why did you have all these art projects where you could only see them from the sky? Like, what is.
- [196:16]
Brigham
Oh yeah, all the. Yeah, the Nazca lines. Crazy.
- [196:18]
Joe Rogan
What is that?
- [196:19]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [196:20]
Joe Rogan
And why do you have ancient artwork of these three fingered, three toed creatures? You have artwork from a thousand years ago of these things. Like it seems like they were a real thing living in that area and they were probably flying around and they were probably building Puma Punku and Machu Picchu probably were us. It's probably a version of us. Like if Neanderthal was alive and then it wasn't, and then we're like, wow, we didn't even even know that Neanderthal was a thing until we discovered, oh, it looks like it interbred with us. Oh, it was a part of us. So now we know that there's a Neanderthal. But 500 years ago, no one had any idea, no one had any idea that there was like an ancient man.
- [197:04]
Brigham
That was bigger than us. I think broke that down too. I think. Isn't it like 70% of the bipedal species that we've uncovered like that are our relatives have all been discovered in the last like 60 years. Yeah.
- [197:20]
Joe Rogan
And a bunch of them been discovered in the last decade. Decade. You know, just like crazy. The last few years. Just recently we were talking about that Homo, the Juliennes, this enormous man that they found a huge head. They don't know how big these things were. They might have been seven foot tall supermen. Like, and then there's depictions of them, like covered in hair, looking jacked. They're trying to like figure out what these things actually look like. Why is it so crazy to think there might have been a version of us that looked like that? Why isn't it so crazy if we are so soft and so doughy in comparison to gorillas because we're so intelligent, we're so intelligent and we're so advanced in comparison to them. Well, if that thing is more advanced and more intelligent than us, it's going to be just like. You compare us to gorillas, it's going to be like that to us. It's going to be comparable. It's going to be frail. And that's what they look like, just frail super nerds with giant heads and fucking medical implants. What's that thing in that thing's neck like? What is that?
- [198:24]
Brigham
It's gonna get interesting too. I know that Corbell and Knapp are. They say they've got, I think, six witnesses, including, I thought, firsthand witnesses that are going to testify this time.
- [198:35]
Joe Rogan
Whoa.
- [198:36]
Brigham
If it all happens.
- [198:37]
Joe Rogan
The weird thing is the Virginia descriptions look exactly like those things.
- [198:43]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [198:43]
Joe Rogan
Three toes, three fingers. And everybody's like, that's nonsense.
- [198:46]
Brigham
The black one, was that the black?
- [198:48]
Joe Rogan
Well, it's like a purple.
- [198:49]
Brigham
Yeah. It's like a purplish color. One that smelled and then the guy died who touched it.
- [198:53]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [198:53]
Brigham
All this, like documented stuff that occurred.
- [198:55]
Joe Rogan
They smell like sulfur.
- [198:57]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [198:57]
Joe Rogan
Just like demons.
- [198:59]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [198:59]
Joe Rogan
It's probably what they were trying to describe. I mean, if you had some guy.
- [199:03]
Brigham
Said multiple times, interdimensional. Interdimensional. Which is I thought was interesting.
- [199:07]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. But she didn't have an explanation. Like, what do you mean? How do you know that? Why are you saying that so confidently? Like. Yeah, like you'd have to tell me. Like, how does something traverse a dimension? What's the theory?
- [199:17]
Brigham
Yeah.
- [199:17]
Joe Rogan
And what does that mean? Like, where is it? Is it in a physical form? Somewhere else, like another place? And it comes here. Like, what do you mean? You know, because there's a dimension of sound. There's a dimension of like three dimensions. Or it's like, you know, space and time and all that. We kind of have an understanding, a grasp of, of it. So if there's a seventh dimension, eighth dimension, does it just take a bus and get here? Like, what are you talking about? Is it here and now? It exists in this dimension and that dimension simultaneously. Like, what is it? What happens to its form over there?
- [199:46]
Brigham
Trying to explain it to me, but I'm too dumb. I'm not smart enough.
- [199:50]
Joe Rogan
I'm not even nearly.
- [199:51]
Brigham
You're a three dimensional being in a three dimensional world and the. Your shadow on the ground is a two dimensional shadow of a three dimensional being.
- [199:59]
Joe Rogan
A Madonna song, three dimensional world. I'm a material girl. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, I don't know, man. But it's fun.
- [200:09]
Brigham
It is fun.
- [200:10]
Joe Rogan
It's fun to. It's fun to talk about. And I'm glad there's guys like Jesse out there making awesome videos. And about this one, I think it's one of the most important because it's. It throws a giant monkey wrench into. It's all nonsense, because as soon as you see the scans of that thing's body, everyone should. It should pause. Everyone should put their newspaper down. Down and go, what the. Are we doing about this? Yeah, like, what are we doing about this? That might be what everyone's been talking about. That might be the thing that genetically engineered us. That might be it.
- [200:40]
Brigham
So crazy.
- [200:41]
Joe Rogan
So crazy.
- [200:42]
Brigham
If we're bringing back dire wolves, then.
- [200:44]
Joe Rogan
Bring back an alien. Yeah, they're probably already here. That's probably just one that we found. You know, they're probably here, and they don't want to be seen anymore because we're. And then one day, we won't be. All right, brother. Dude, let's wrap this up.
- [200:56]
Brigham
Thank you for having me on.
- [200:57]
Joe Rogan
Three and a half hours.
- [200:58]
Brigham
That was. This is the longest one we've done.
- [201:00]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. But it's awesome. I love you. Appreciate you very much. Appreciate what you're doing. It's an awesome company. Waystowell.com check it out. And thank you for all you're doing to try to give people a better understanding about how incredibly corrupt this whole system really is.
- [201:17]
Brigham
Thank you for having me on and giving us a voice.
- [201:19]
Joe Rogan
My pleasure, my brother. Bye, everybody.
- [201:21]
Brigham
Sam.