The Joe Rogan Experience #2384 — Mark Kerr (September 25, 2025)
Episode Summary

Overview

In this rich, wide-ranging episode, Joe Rogan sits down with Mark Kerr—legendary MMA fighter and subject of the acclaimed documentary The Smashing Machine—to discuss the upcoming biopic about his life (starring Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson), the evolution of MMA, the realities of addiction and recovery, the science of elite athletic performance, and the unique mental toll of fighting at the highest level. Together, they explore both historical and deeply personal perspectives on fighting, fame, loss, and personal growth. The episode also features notable reflections on the portrayal of fighting in film.

1. The Movie: "The Smashing Machine" and Its Impact

The Rock's Performance and Authenticity

• Joe heaps praise on The Smashing Machine biopic, emphasizing it’s not just an MMA movie, but a gripping drama that accurately reflects Kerr’s life (00:12).
  • Quote:
    “The way The Rock did you was nuts... sometimes it was like looking at a doppelganger.” — Joe Rogan (00:34)
• Kerr shares that his son was blown away watching The Rock embody his father:
  • Quote:
    “He’s got your mannerisms, he’s got your speech pattern...” — Mark Kerr (00:42)
• Dwayne Johnson’s dedication and method acting were repeatedly highlighted (01:52).
• Authenticity in production: Kerr contributed personal items to the film set for accuracy, feeling like he was “walking into his life from 25 years ago” (18:10).
• Emily Blunt’s intense portrayal of Dawn (Kerr’s partner) is discussed with high praise for nailing the emotional chaos (03:02).

Portrayal of MMA History in Film

• The podcast contrasts The Smashing Machine’s painstaking authenticity with previous sports biopics (Foxcatcher) that played “Hollywood shenanigans” with facts (15:58).

2. Mark Kerr’s Life and MMA Pioneering

Early Days of MMA

• Joe and Mark reminisce about MMA’s primitive beginnings (05:00):
  • Joe did backstage interviews “for fun”—it actually cost him money.
  • The mystery and allure of early UFC and Pride events, including the lack of steroid testing and wild contractual negotiations (14:24).
• Kerr explains how he was “brainwashed” to think size or black belts automatically meant dominance, and how wrestling changed the power dynamic (06:40).
  • Quote:
    “I can hold a grown ass man where he doesn't want to be held for as long as I want... and he can't do a thing about it. That's a wrestler.” — Mark Kerr (07:17)

Steroids & Training Culture

• Both discuss the open use of steroids in early MMA and the massive influence wrestling-based fighters brought to MMA (11:26, 13:13).

Transition to Pride

• Details Kerr’s contentious contractual release from UFC to Pride, the business culture in Japan, and the matches that almost happened (notably Kerr vs. Royce Gracie) (39:06, 42:06).

3. Evolution of MMA & Athlete Preparation

Cardio as the Scariest Weapon

• Iconic fighters like Cain Velasquez, Mark Coleman, and Russian/Dagestani wrestlers are discussed as examples of fighters with “a gear no one else has” (10:25, 11:14).
  • Quote:
    “There are certain athletes that have a gear that nobody else has. It’s just how they’re built.” — Joe Rogan (11:22)
• How Russian technical training and relentless cardio set wrestlers apart and led to dominance in various combat sports (27:31).

Technical Mastery, Mentality, and Generational Growth

• The mental aspect and drive required for continued success at the elite level—often to a detrimental, compulsive extent (78:37, 183:07).
• The progression and mutation of the sport’s athletes: Today’s MMA is “a whole new creature” compared to 1990s (53:40).
• Differences in training between eras and the inability to “catch up” if you don’t have the wrestling base (49:42, 52:24).

4. Addiction, Mental Health, and Recovery

Honest Account of Addiction

• Kerr opens up about his struggles with opiate and alcohol addiction, including the dark period featured in the Smashing Machine documentary (31:44, 135:16).
  • Quote:
    “What keeps you addicted is shame... but if they see me in the film go through this process, it gives them an opportunity to go, ‘I can ask for help too.’” — Mark Kerr (147:12)
• He discusses the cyclical draw to both destructive and constructive obsession—the same mindset that brought him athletic greatness also fueled his addiction (138:09).
• Describes the gratitude and humility of long-term recovery, with emphasis on foundational routine and structure (138:54, 139:31).

Psychedelics & Alternative Treatment

• Joe discusses the potential of ibogaine to help disrupt the cycle of addiction and its recent legal acceptance for treating veterans (153:35).

5. Legacy, Redemption, and Life After Fighting

Redefining Identity After Fighting

• Kerr describes the profound difficulty of leaving the cage behind, losing identity, and finding new foundation beyond fighting (173:51, 176:51).
  • Quote:
    “Fighting is what I did, it’s not who I am. I’m much more than that.” — Mark Kerr (150:45)
• The loneliness and psychological challenge each fighter faces both before and after stepping into the ring (181:21).

Giving Back, Wisdom for the Next Generation

• Advice to up-and-coming fighters to build foundational skills in submission grappling (especially no-gi), and gradually build striking before entering MMA (109:42).
• Both acknowledge the debt current athletes owe to MMA’s early pioneers.

6. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "You mean, you got better for the second fight? He did a lot better, but so did Marab, though. That guy’s not stopping." — Rogan, on rematches and elite grapplers (52:59)
• “It gives people a little bit of a look inside what it was... I’m just a little piece, but that little piece is necessary.” — Kerr on his place in MMA history (56:17)
• “You have to have almost no rest... while sharks are nipping at your ankles. That’s the secret: Staying there.” — Kerr on the pressure of maintaining excellence (95:39)
• “Being a competitor allowed me to fight, but fighting was like hurting another human being to the level that I had to hurt them—that was a whole ‘nother experience.” — Kerr (176:17)

7. Technical Details: Science, Training & Performance

• Mark describes training with Dan Gable’s champion, Chris Campbell, and absorbing the “intentionality” behind every movement (27:36, 121:34).
• Rogan and Kerr discuss the role of increasingly scientific athletic preparation: recovery, nutrition, hyperbaric and hypoxic training, and sleep optimization (84:14).

8. Fighting Styles, Game Evolution, and Modern Standouts

• Discussion of wrestling as the “most foundational” skill, and why elite MMA must combine true “three sports in one” — striking, wrestling, and jiu-jitsu (54:38).
• Talks about standout modern fighters: Khamzat Chimaev, Khabib Nurmagomedov, Sean O’Malley, Alexander Usyk, Alex Pereira, and others (49:42, 66:00, 163:44).
  • Quote:
    “He’s a will taker. Like, what he did to Conor... he’s like, let’s talk now... that’s at a level. That’s a level where you’re a bad—but somebody that’s even badder just dominates you.” — Rogan on Khabib (68:03)

9. Reflections on Film, Media, & MMA’s Mainstream Journey

• The importance of authenticity in The Smashing Machine and how the movie honors the early fighters who built MMA’s foundation (19:19).
• Ultimate Fighter reality show as the key to MMA’s mainstream breakthrough (59:23).
• The awkwardness of watching personal pain and triumph recreated for the screen, and the emotional catharsis it brings (142:12).

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:12 — Joe introduces the film & The Rock’s performance
• 03:02 — Praise for Emily Blunt’s role as Dawn
• 06:40 — Wrestling’s power in early MMA
• 14:24 — Steroids, contracts, and early MMA wild West
• 27:31 — Russian wrestling, relentless training, and mentorship
• 39:06 — Contract drama: leaving UFC for Pride
• 56:17 — Kerr reflects on being a small but “necessary” piece of MMA history
• 95:39 — The pressure and pain of staying at the top
• 135:16 — The roots of addiction and recovery
• 138:54 — Foundations for a new, sober life
• 150:45 — Redefining identity post-fighting
• 181:21 — Vulnerability of being a fighter in the cage

Episode Tone

Intimate, raw, and honest—mixing nostalgia, technical fight breakdown, and powerful vulnerability. Both men pay deep respect to the pioneers and the modern athletes, while not shying away from the dark side of pain, pressure, and addiction in the sport.

This episode is essential listening for MMA fans and anyone interested in the intersection of peak physical achievement, psychological struggle, and personal redemption.