The Joe Rogan Experience #2394 — Palmer Luckey

Date: October 16, 2025
Guest: Palmer Luckey (founder of Oculus VR, defense tech entrepreneur)
Host: Joe Rogan

Episode Overview

The conversation with Palmer Luckey covers his journey from teenage VR pioneer to defense tech innovator, with deep dives into the intersections of technology, military innovation, government inefficiency, AI and robotics, the nature of innovation and nostalgia, and a free-wheeling exploration of speculative topics like UFOs, AI ethics, simulation theory, and interspecies communication.

Tone:
Casual, intellectual, humorous with deep dives into technical detail, cultural observations, and nostalgic riffs.

Key Discussions and Insights

1. Float Tanks, VR, and Altered States

Timestamps: 00:20 – 04:12

• Palmer describes a friend building a waterproof VR float tank rig: While Rogan expresses skepticism, Palmer is fascinated by the concept of coding and gaming while floating in total sensory deprivation.
  • “He wants to code in the float tank. I want to do it for VR gaming. At least to forget your body exists...” – Palmer [01:56]
• Float tanks as cognitive enhancers: Joe touts the benefits for creative and deep thinking, detailing how sensory reduction maximizes “computational power” of the brain.
  • “Your mind has more computational power... Your brain is computing all this input all the time” – Joe [03:02]
• Palmer confesses he’s never actually done a float tank session, for all the hype he's read.
  • “I’ve done a lot of reading on it...but I’ve never actually managed to get into a float tank, which is really embarrassing. You’d think a billionaire would have the resources!” – Palmer [03:58]

2. The Birth of Oculus and Working with John Carmack

Timestamps: 05:03 – 08:47

• Palmer details founding Oculus: Started making VR prototypes at 14–15, created the original Rift at 16, built Oculus as a company at 18, and sold it to Facebook after a few years.
• Meeting and collaborating with John Carmack: Carmack, a childhood hero, validated the Oculus Rift online and eventually joined as CTO.
  • “He ended up writing a review and posting it on his blog and said it was the best VR experience the world has ever seen...Then he left id Software and became the CTO of Oculus.” – Palmer [06:35]

3. VR Gaming, Fitness, and the Rise of Active Games

Timestamps: 07:34 – 09:04

• Beat Saber and fitness: Palmer and Joe discuss how Beat Saber and VR boxing are physically demanding.
  • “Beat Saber is a full body workout.” – Palmer [08:20]
  • Joe points out, “Boxing games are a really good workout. Your feet hurt, you’re utilizing a lot of movement.” [08:47]
• Tight-knit early VR community: Palmer notes how few believed in VR, and the overlap between different VR startups.

4. Robotics, AI, and the Future of Combat Sports

Timestamps: 11:19 – 16:35

• AI sparring partners and teleoperated robot fighters: The potential to simulate real fighters or to physically train with robots based on data from legends.
  • “My dream is you can have robots perfectly tuned to match your own physical capability, or even fight the greats.” – Palmer [12:00]
  • Joe notes benefits in safety/precision: “It would have a really accurate sense of distance, so it would touch you instead of hurt you. That’s the best sparring partner.” [13:10]
• Robot combat leagues and specialization: Military robots are not human-like but optimally shaped for the task—sometimes resembling sharks or birds.
  • “Robots for fighting...They all have hyper specialized forms. Human form would never be the basis for a terminator.” – Palmer [16:35]

5. AI, Identity, and Cyclical Creation

Timestamps: 17:07 – 18:50

• Philosophy of humanoid robots: Palmer’s “headcanon” — Skynet makes robots that look human because of a residual connection to its creators.
  • “The reason Skynet made Terminators into humanoid form is maybe there’s some hope or value in the human form.” – Palmer [17:07]
• Creation in the image of the creator: Discussed as a parallel to biblical creation—AI as a reflection of humanity.

6. Government, UFOs/UAPs, and Secrecy

Timestamps: 19:03 – 28:31

• Recent “alien bio-signs” news, skepticism, and military footage: Palmer and Joe discuss government releases and retractions, and the intricacies of verifying UFO/UAP phenomena. They touch on conflicting sensors, spoofs, and the congressional hearing over Hellfire missile footage.
• UFO-involved government programs: Palmer fantasizes about “retirement” as a self-funded modern X-Files agent, able to cut through the red tape plaguing current efforts.
• Disclosure and amnesty: Legal complications if alien materials/tech are mishandled or farmed out to private industry. Should there be amnesty for whistleblowers and contractors?
  • “One of the things they’re proposing is amnesty. Tell us what you know, let’s go.” – Joe [27:02]
  • Palmer: “Amnesty only applies to what’s disclosed now, not beyond...” [28:05]

7. Government Inefficiency, Corruption, and Military-Industrial Complex

Timestamps: 28:32 – 34:40

• Waste in defense spending: Palmer’s motivation to form Anduril to “save taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars a year” and fight entrenched inefficiency.
• Recent accountability: Military leadership increasingly calling out boondoggles, downsizing wasteful projects, going after overpriced contractors.
  • “It’s been a long time since a secretary-level official publicly called out defense companies...I’m optimistic.” – Palmer [31:12]
• Systemic issues of government vs. private sector: The difference between competition-driven private innovation and the lack of “survival pressure” for failing government programs.
• National security policy: Palmer insists weaponry must be developed competitively but deployment decisions remain a government function, not a corporatocracy.
  • “Do you want big tech CEOs deciding foreign policy?...That’s the most cyberpunk, dystopian thing I can imagine.” – Palmer [37:09]

8. Media, Information Control, and Cultural Variance

Timestamps: 38:18 – 46:45

• Role of shows like JRE in providing nuanced education outside MSM: “You’ve put stories into a format where the guy in his truck, on way to work, can actually be informed.” – Palmer [38:55]
• Cultural attitudes to censorship: Palmer and Joe compare US, UK, China. Palmer recounts UK forum moderation and suggests most Brits are apathetic or supportive of policing offensive speech; Joe expresses qualms about rising European “tyranny.”
  • “Most people in the UK just don’t care about it one way or another...In China, same thing.” – Palmer [44:05]

9. Propaganda, Mind Control, and Modern Warfare

Timestamps: 46:45 – 51:50

• State-level psychological manipulation: Palmer argues mind games and info control are now the biggest weapons, smarter and more destructive than hardware.
  • Shares anecdote about Russian pilots in Ukraine being so propagandized they packed 50 condoms in expectation of a “liberator’s welcome.”
  • “Their most powerful weapon is not any bomb or missile—it’s their ability to control people’s minds...” – Palmer [47:00]
• Parallels to US media manipulation in Middle East wars: “We were sold a bill of goods...It’s easy to laugh at the dumb Russian grunt, but we weren’t much better.” – Palmer [50:00]

10. China’s Manufacturing Prowess, Auto Industry, and Military Implications

Timestamps: 51:57 – 66:37

• Chinese cars vs. Americans: Discussion of China’s inexpensive, sophisticated electric cars, why they’re not sold in the US (protectionism), and cultural differences (Chinese rich prefer to be chauffeured).
• Industrial base as the foundation of military might: Palmer explains destroying the US auto industry is strategically invaluable to China. He describes making missiles (the Barracuda) in Anduril designed to be built in any normal car factory—just like WWII guns and tanks.
  • “China would love to wipe out American automotive industry. If we lost it, we’d never be able to catch up in a war.” – Palmer [62:02]
• China’s “civil-military fusion” and overwhelming shipbuilding capabilities: Palmer details how China requires civilian ships to meet military standards so the fleet can be co-opted in war.
  • “China has 300 times more naval shipbuilding capacity than the US...” – Palmer [65:19]

11. Taiwan, US Military Strategy, and World “Gun Store” Policy

Timestamps: 66:37 – 72:40

• China’s Timeline on Taiwan: Palmer lays out Anduril’s “China27” policy—preparing under the assumption of a Taiwan move by 2027.
  • “Anything we’re working on needs to be built assuming that in 2027, China moves on Taiwan.” – Palmer [66:40]
• Risks of a slow-boil blockade (“boiling the frog”) instead of an outright invasion.
• Shortfalls in US weapons deliveries and readiness: Palmer argues US should transition from “world police” to “world gun store”—arming friends preemptively so they can defend themselves, rather than expecting US boots on the ground.
  • “Stop being the world police, start being the world gun store and get serious about it.” – Palmer [71:59]

12. Media Manipulation, Trust, and Simulation Theory

Timestamps: 72:40 – 79:27

• Transparency, information fatigue, and declining trust: Joe and Palmer discuss how the internet and hindsight have eroded belief in official narratives (“fool me twice, can’t get fooled again” Bushism).
• Presidential aging and mental pressure: Noting how the stress of office visibly ages presidents—except Trump.
  • “Trump looks younger...he got that old man, no sleep power!” – Joe [75:46]

13. Palmer’s Personal Political Evolution and Firsthand Anecdotes

Timestamps: 78:09 – 92:54

• Early Trump supporter: Palmer reveals he wrote Trump at age 15 urging a presidential run, and describes the rationale for preferring Trump’s outsider status in 2016.
• Against Hillary Clinton’s campaign inconsistencies: He recounts a Silicon Valley fundraiser where Clinton’s chief of staff dodged all substantive policy questions; then days later Clinton aired ads contradicting her prior positions.
  • “It’s not about any particular issue...It’s just, how can you vote for someone who’s willing to lie like that?” – Palmer [92:55]

14. Government, Free Speech, and Online Manipulation

Timestamps: 96:48 – 102:07

• History of media interference: Palmer traces government desire to influence media back to Hamilton/Franklin debates and the JFK era, asserting that state influence followed tech into blogs, forums, and social media.
• Dead Internet Theory: The rise of bots and astroturfing. “Eventually there will be almost no real human back and forth on the Internet, it’s just robots arguing.” – Palmer [100:38]
• Suspicious Wikipedia edit origins: Many coming from Arlington, VA—wink at government influence.

15. Science Fiction to Weapons Tech:

Timestamps: 105:22 – 110:19

• Palmer’s “Q” complex: Always admired the toolmakers in fiction (Q from Bond, Tony Stark, anime characters), and wonders how much of career/life path is “free will” vs. subconscious childhood scripting.
• Hitting every green light: Described the role of luck, timing, and continuity of success in going from Oculus to Anduril to AI fighter jets for the US Air Force: “The crazy thing is it all only happens if you hit every green light.”

16. AI Fighter Jets, Dogfighting, and Military Autonomy

Timestamps: 110:31 – 113:10

• Anduril’s FQ44 – The First Unmanned AI Fighter: Palmer describes beating Boeing and Lockheed Martin for the contract, and the tactical revolution autonomy brings—a plane can now use high-risk maneuvers since risking a pilot’s life isn’t a factor.
  • “All those tactics are on the table... Autonomy changes the game.” – Palmer [112:31]

17. UAPs/UFOs, Deep Weirdness, and Speculative Theories

Timestamps: 113:10 – 128:14

• Recent “New Jersey UAPs”: Palmer suspects initial weirdness, followed by a media circus of drones.
• Alleged ‘proliferation masking’ of drone technology seeded by aliens: Theorize: are quadcopters a subconscious cover for UFO activity?
• UFOs entering/exiting the sea, near Catalina Island: Stories collected of “USOs” (Unidentified Submersible Objects) with consistent details across decades and witnesses.
  • “They describe these very, very steep approach paths...just seamlessly transitioning into the water.” – Palmer [126:33]
• Breakaway civilizations, Chariots of the Gods, Stargates in hieroglyphics: Exploration of ancient knowledge, speculative anthropology.

18. Interspecies Communication, Animal Intelligence, and the Uplift XPrize

Timestamps: 131:17 – 138:47

• XPrize ambitions: Palmer lobbied the XPrize foundation for an “uplift” prize (genetically making animals sentient), but settled on an upcoming interspecies communication XPrize using AI to decode animal languages like those of dolphins and whales.
  • “It’s a prize to meet species where they are and communicate with them in a repeatable, verifiable way...” – Palmer [132:51]
• Alex the parrot: Described as having both abstract thought and existential concerns, with near-human toddler intelligence in a tiny avian brain.
  • “He actually did it right before he died... What’s happening? Where am I going?” – Palmer [137:06]

19. Speculative Evolution, Simulation, and Novelty-Seeking

Timestamps: 140:47 – 144:09

• The “uplift” theory and its implications for human evolution: If we start augmenting animals, does that make it easier to imagine that we ourselves were uplifted by someone else?
  • “If we are literally sitting there talking to our dogs... wouldn’t any species do that once they’re smart enough?” – Palmer [141:29]
• Human drive for innovation and novelty: Is our relentless quest for “better” things a result of unique evolution or external shaping?
  • “Humans are programmed to seek novelty. Societies that don’t stagnate.” – Palmer [143:48]

20. Nostalgia, Cultural Memory, and Artistic Decline

Timestamps: 146:36 – 153:25

• Healthy nostalgia: Palmer argues for the value of rose-tinted view of the past to recover what worked, e.g., artful 1960s American cars, before everything became “appliances.”
  • “Cars are turning into subscriber-based appliances. That’s kind of gross.” – Joe [150:58]
• Subscription model video games as emblematic of commodified, dehumanized design.

21. Privacy, Gaming, and Corporate Capture

Timestamps: 154:01 – 160:13

• Erosion of privacy: Games and apps now aggressively collect social media data, compared to the simplicity of Palmer’s custom, nostalgia-filled handheld game console.
• **“Dark patterns,” forced social media integration, and Gen Z’s lack of privacy concern.

22. Corporate Missions and Culture Wars

Timestamps: 160:13 – 165:38

• Social engineering vs. profit motives in gaming/media: The conflict between employees driving DEI change at the expense of product quality; oversized HR-driven hiring and policy during the “zero interest rate phenomenon (ZIRP)” and its correction.

23. Show and Tell: Anduril Military Tech Demos

Timestamps: 165:40 – 188:56

• Eagle Eye heads-up display demo: Palmer narrates a futuristic integrated combat helmet and AR glasses system with ballistic protection, real-time force tracking, night/thermal vision, and AI-fused “hive mind” capabilities.
  • “If I’m able to see something, you should be able to see it... Drone sees someone behind a container? It overlays him for you.” – Palmer [167:13]
• Details on modular components, mission-specific shields (including for laser protection), and chop-shop demos for the Army.
• Innovative solid-state battery/ballistic plate combo:
  • “This is a combination battery, computer and ballistic plate...solid state ceramic battery as protective armor.” – Palmer [185:10]
  • “We’ve eliminated around 10 pounds from a soldier’s ruck...” [187:32]

24. The Ethics of Building Weapons and Outsourcing Responsibility

Timestamps: 188:59 – 190:15

• Moral responsibility: Palmer asserts that people with ethical qualms should be more, not less, engaged—“If you worry about the ethics of weapons, it’s even more important that you work on them. There’s no moral high ground in outsourcing that work...” [189:10]

25. Closing Fun and Invites

Timestamps: 190:21 – End

• Palmer promises to host Joe at the Anduril range for live demo. Joe is thrilled:
  • “Let’s fucking go.” – Joe [190:31]
  • “I love my job. The best part is...people would be dead in this building if you hadn’t developed this tech.” – Palmer [188:59]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The human form is not the one you’d actually base a terminator off.” — Palmer [16:35]
• “Most people in the UK just don’t care...and I think the group who are on the side of control is larger than the people who are not.” — Palmer [44:05]
• “We want to be the world’s gun store, stop policing, and start supplying.” — Palmer [71:59]
• “If you worry about the ethics of weapons, you have a responsibility to be in the fight. There’s no high ground in letting bad people take over.” — Palmer [189:10]
• “If we can uplift animals with gene editing, it makes seeded evolution theories for humans less crazy.” — Palmer [141:28]

Timestamps for Notable Segments

• Float Tanks & VR: 00:20 – 04:12
• Oculus & Carmack: 05:03 – 08:47
• VR Fitness & Boxing: 07:34 – 09:04
• AI Boxing Robots: 11:19 – 16:35
• Humanoid Robots/Theology: 17:07 – 18:50
• UAPs & Military Secrecy: 19:03 – 28:31
• Industrial Warfare & China: 62:02 – 66:37
• Taiwan/World Gun Store: 66:37 – 72:40
• AI Fighter Jets: 110:19 – 113:10
• Santa Catalina USOs: 125:27 – 128:14
• Animal Communication XPRIZE: 131:17 – 138:47
• Eagle Eye Helmet Demo: 165:40 – 188:56

Final Thoughts

This episode is a deep, broad-ranging conversation—part Silicon Valley oral history, part defense tech showcase, part philosophical jam session. Palmer Luckey’s uniquely technical geek-energy, paired with Joe’s knack for big-picture synthesis and cultural critique, make for an episode that’s both informative and thought-provoking, blending cutting-edge tech, military reality, and futuristic speculation with candid personal stories and a dose of irreverence.

For tech, defense, and future-of-humanity nerds, it’s a must-listen.