The Joe Rogan Experience #2417 — Ben van Kerkwyk (November 25, 2025)

Episode Overview

Joe Rogan is joined by Ben van Kerkwyk, researcher, YouTuber (UnchartedX), and alternative history enthusiast, for a deep-dive exploration into ancient mysteries, lost civilizations, radical theories about historical timelines, and the enigmatic engineering found in Egypt, South America, and beyond. The episode investigates suppressed archaeological findings, the mainstream academic resistance to alternative theories, and thought-provoking ideas about human origins.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Lost Labyrinth of Egypt & The “Tic Tac” Object

• Summary of the Mystery ([02:02]–[05:17]):
  • The fabled Egyptian labyrinth, described as greater in magnificence than the pyramids, has long been referenced in ancient texts (Herodotus, Diodorus, Pliny the Elder).
  • Recent (2015–2017) ground-penetrating radar and seismic scans at Hawara revealed a massive multi-level underground structure, with cyclopean walls meters thick.
  • A central mystery: scans identified a free-standing, 40-meter-long metallic “tic tac”-shaped object in an atrium—a possible "UFO" or anomalous technology.

"There seems to be this unidentified metallic object that's freestanding in this room. It's about 40 meters long that seems to be tic tac shaped."
– Ben van Kerkwyk, [04:35]

• Obstacle to Excavation: Egyptian government bureaucracy, secrecy, and the need for someone (with Elon Musk-level resources) to “make it happen.”
• Potential Impact: A publicly-excavated, verified spacecraft would be a world-changing discovery.

2. Gatekeeping, Suppression, and Mainstream Archaeology

• The Political Blockade ([11:14]–[17:25]):
  • Key Egyptian antiquities authorities (Zahi Hawass, Mark Lehner) have historically suppressed or stonewalled reports on anomalous discoveries, likely due to generational biases and fear of paradigm change.
  • Some reports were never published, some were actively threatened into silence.
  • Discussion on the generational shift needed to embrace the mysteries as a boon to Egypt and global knowledge, rather than as a threat.

"I do think there's been a little bit of gatekeeping that's happened."
– Ben van Kerkwyk, [14:23]

3. Beneath the Sphinx: Tunnels, Hall of Records, and Ancient Accounts

• Myths and Recent Findings ([12:36]–[16:06]; [60:41]–[68:24]):
  • Legends persist from Greek, Roman, and Arab sources (including Edgar Cayce) about chambers or 'Halls of Records' beneath the Sphinx where ancient knowledge is hidden.
  • 1990s–2000s: Secretive expeditions (Shaw, ARE Foundation) found tunnels and possible chambers beneath the Sphinx, some only recently revealed via lost VHS tapes.
  • Locally, access to these tunnels has been sealed and backfilled—possibly intentionally to keep findings hidden.

"It's kind of out there. And then, and then it was only like earlier this year [...] now we actually have this footage—we have Zahi going into the Sphinx at the back saying these words."
– Ben van Kerkwyk, [65:11]

4. Ancient Timelines, Human longevity, and Cataclysms

• Human Timeline Expansion ([20:56]–[26:08]):
  • Modern science extends the presence of anatomically modern humans up to 300,000 years, with possible cultural precursors much older (genetic and fossil evidence).
  • Ancient king lists (Egyptian, Sumerian, Biblical) recurrently claim massive lifespans before a cataclysm or flood, suggesting knowledge lost in ancient disasters.

"You have many examples of these…pre-cataclysm civilizations where people live for a long time. But…there's an extension of how long humans have been here."
– Ben van Kerkwyk, [21:01]

• Climatic Stability as Civilizational Bedrock: Civilizations flourish during rare periods of global climatic stability, like the Holocene; previous periods (e.g., Eemian) lasted tens of thousands of years—ample time for advanced societies to rise and fall.

5. Megalithic Weathering as Evidence for Deep Antiquity

• Erosion Evidence at Giza ([26:08]–[35:05]):
  • Detailed comparisons of limestone erosion rates with gravemarkers and slabs worldwide suggest some Giza structures are subject to weathering consistent with over 100,000 years of exposure—much older than mainstream timelines assert.
  • The Sphinx is especially anomalous: sand-protected for millennia, yet deeply eroded—a contradiction best explained by its construction during a dramatically wetter epoch.

"If you look at the studies...in a normal weathering environment, it would take...more than 100,000 years."
– Ben van Kerkwyk, [28:12]

6. Global Patterns: Rewriting Civilization’s Development

Egypt

• Reattribution, Renovation, & Propaganda:
  • Pharaonic dynasties (notably Ramses II) frequently usurped and repurposed ancient monuments, literalizing “history is written by the victors.”
  • Restoration efforts often risk destroying the valuable original work.

South America

• Peru & Bolivia: Layered Civilizations and Megalithic Mismatches ([107:23]–[147:24]):
  • At sites like Sacsayhuaman, Ollantaytambo, Tiwanaku, and Pumapunku, three distinct architectural layers appear: oldest (carved bedrock, “Hanan Pacha”), megalithic (precision-cut, mortarless blocks), and Inca (cobblestone, mud-mortar).
  • The Inca themselves mythologized the oldest layers as the work of giants or gods.
  • Carbon dating is regularly dismissed only when inconvenient.
  • At Tiwanaku, solar observatory alignments suggest construction dates as far back as 15,000 BC, confirmed by matching obliquity (axial tilt) calculations.

"The only thing that makes sense…when you look at that architecture down there is yeah, they were rebuilding older stonework, they were repairing it, they were putting their stuff back on top of it."
– Ben van Kerkwyk, [133:30]

Other Sites & Parallels

• Japan, Turkey, India ([154:02]–[162:33]):
  • Megalithic construction methods, including inexplicable “nubs,” are found worldwide (Japan’s Asuka Stones, Yangshan Quarry in China, Barabar Caves in India), supporting the hypothesis of an ancient, globally-connected builder culture.

7. Sacred Geometry, Precession, and Encoded Knowledge

• Pyramid Geodesy & Ancient Science ([88:00]–[106:39]):
  • The Great Pyramid encodes the ratios of Earth’s circumference, polar radius, and even time cycles (e.g., 43,200:1 ratio, 432, 108 as sacred numbers) with uncanny precision.
  • These numbers recur in mythology, cosmology (Hindu, Babylonian, Sumerian), and global monument building.

"If you take the height of the Great Pyramid...multiply it by 43,200, you get the polar radius of the Earth...the perimeter times 43,200 gives the equatorial circumference."
– Ben van Kerkwyk, [90:29]

• Skepticism, Coincidence, & Ratios: The importance of ratios as universal measures that transcend arbitrary units—making the recurrence of these numbers especially difficult to explain as “coincidence.”

8. Culture Wars, Academia, and the Next Generation

• Institutions vs. Popularization ([164:44]–[167:50]):
  • Mainstream academia is often accused of insular, even “bitchy” suppression of new ideas.
  • The internet, YouTube, and “alternative” writers have created a mass audience and a large “potential talent pool” outside academia—polymaths who may drive the next paradigm shift.
  • Hope for “next generation” scholars to embrace this expanded context and the necessity of cross-disciplinary teams.

9. The Cyclic Nature of Cataclysm & Civilizations

• Civilizational Pathos & Warnings ([171:06]–[172:55]):
  • The cyclical rise and fall of civilizations due to natural cataclysms should be a central lesson—implications for our own vulnerability.
  • Understanding our past may be key to our long-term survival.

"Maybe that's a constant test every 12,000 plus years...? No one's really solved it yet."
– Joe Rogan, [171:59]

Most Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Labyrinth’s UFO:

“Can you imagine if they get in there and they really do find a recovered spacecraft, then what do we do? [...] We might have to bring in the SEALs. We need to like, lock that place down.”
– Joe Rogan [05:23]

• On Academic Gatekeeping:

“Why is it that if you find evidence that somebody in the past did something so fucking astonishing, the instinct is to hide it?”
– Joe Rogan [70:05]

• On Megaliths Worldwide:

“It’s so weird how these megalithic structures are so consistent...is this a traveling civilization? Is civilization uniform all around the world at a certain point in time?”
– Joe Rogan [157:57]

• On the Great Pyramid’s Math:

“The more advanced we got...the closer the number came to what the Great Pyramid represents at this ratio of 43,200, right up to the point where it’s like, the most modern…surveys…within about 300ft.”
– Ben van Kerkwyk [91:35]

Important Timestamps

• Labyrinth, Sphinx, and the “tic tac”: [00:22]–[07:33]
• Historical suppression, Sphinx tunnels, and ARE foundation: [11:14]–[16:06]; [60:41]–[68:24]
• Ancient timelines, kings lists, and cataclysms: [20:56]–[26:08]
• Erosion evidence at Giza and work of Robert Schoch: [26:08]–[39:49]
• Peru & South America megaliths, Tiwanaku, and Puma Punku: [107:22]–[139:19]
• Tool marks, construction mysteries, global parallels: [139:39]–[162:33]
• Gatekeeping, generational shift in academia: [164:44]–[167:50]
• Reflections on lost civilizations, cycles, and our future: [171:06]–[172:55]

Tone & Style

The conversation is casual, irreverent, and often humorous (true to JRE style). Both host and guest express awe and fascination bordering on exasperation at the mysteries of the ancient world and the resistance of gatekeeping authorities.

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a rich, skeptical-yet-open-minded tour through the world’s greatest archaeological enigmas. Ben and Joe weave together fresh technological data, radical re-interpretations of ancient texts, modern suppression, and the global recurrence of megalithic construction. While conclusive answers remain elusive, the central message is clear: the story of human civilization is far more mysterious, ancient, and untold than what we are taught—and it’s time to embrace the unknown with vigor.

Guest Links

• YouTube: UnchartedX
• Twitter: @UnchartedX1
• Instagram: @UnchartedX7

(For complete references and visual accompaniments, see Ben’s UnchartedX videos and JRE episode highlights on YouTube.)