#2426 - Cameron Hanes & Adam Greentree

Summary

The Joe Rogan Experience #2426 – Cameron Hanes & Adam Greentree

Release Date: December 16, 2025
Guests: Cameron Hanes (ultra-runner, bowhunter, author), Adam Greentree (Australian bowhunter, outdoorsman)
Host: Joe Rogan

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Overview

This episode brings together hunting legends Cameron Hanes and Adam Greentree for an in-depth discussion with Joe Rogan about the wild realities of predator-prey dynamics, bowhunting ethics, wildlife management, and the pursuit of fulfillment through struggle and nature. The trio dive deep into stories of mountain lion encounters, global conservation challenges, and what the modern world is missing by being detached from nature. The episode is rich in jaw-dropping hunting tales, societal commentary, and practical insights for both hunters and city dwellers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Predator-Prey, Wild Encounters & Mountain Lion Stories

Timestamps: 00:12 – 16:30

• Adam relates a harrowing mountain lion hunt in Colorado where a lion killed livestock with shocking brutality:
  • "That cow was literally being eaten alive when we got there. The mountain lion was eating it from its rear—the cow couldn't move. Horrific scene." (01:00, Adam Greentree)
• Hunting Ethics & Regulations:
  • In Colorado, to hunt a mountain lion, you must determine sex and age; only certain lions are legal to take (00:58–01:34).
  • Compassion in Hunting:
    • "We're the only thing that has compassion in the wild—hunters and ranchers appreciate when to end suffering." (03:23, Wayne Tanner)
• Reality of Predator Cruelty:
  • Rogan and guests contrast nature's brutality (predators eating prey alive) to human management, challenging urban perceptions of “letting nature take its course.” (00:58–04:08)

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2. The "War Zone" of Nature & Ecological Balance

Timestamps: 04:08 – 07:06

• Rogan muses:
  • “If you could see every predator-prey encounter on the planet at once, you’d think we’re at war—the natural world’s a constant war planet.” (05:42, Joe Rogan)
• Role of Feral Cats:
  • Feral and house cats kill billions of animals per year in North America—important for rodent control, illustrating the delicate balance of ecosystems.

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3. Conservation Challenges & Global Perspectives

Timestamps: 07:06 – 15:42

• Bear Overpopulation in Japan:
  • Japan faces record brown bear attacks due to declining hunter numbers—requiring military intervention.
    • “The bears don’t fear humans, because they’ve never been hunted.” (07:44, Joe Rogan)
• Aging Out of Hunting:
  • “All the hunters are aging out in Japan. They’re deploying the military because the next generation isn’t hunting.” (14:04, Wayne Tanner)
• US States’ Predator Control:
  • Cats, bears, and wolves are managed differently across states (with quotas, legal frameworks).
  • California faces a paradox: banning mountain lion hunting hasn’t reduced lion deaths—depredation tags kill as many lions as legal hunting would, but without funding conservation.

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4. Urban vs. Rural Policy & Disconnect

Timestamps: 23:25 – 44:41

• Voting & Wildlife Policy:
  • Decisions about predators are shaped by urban majorities who have little experience with wildlife, impacting rural lives:
    • “People in cities don’t know what’s going on in the wilderness. They vote from compassion, but out in the mountains, we’re dealing with this shit.” (25:59, Wayne Tanner)
  • BC’s ban on grizzly hunting as an urban, not rural decision (exacerbating human-wildlife conflict).

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5. The Role of Hunters: Ethics, Regulations, and Biologists

Timestamps: 44:41 – 49:42

• Why “unfair” hunting methods (dogs for lions, bait for bear) are crucial for ethical, effective population management:
  • “There’s only one effective way to get these mountain lions: you gotta tree them with dogs, otherwise you just don’t find them.” (48:32, Joe Rogan)
• How these methods allow careful selection (sex and age), critical for healthy populations.

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6. Respect, Struggle, and Fulfillment Through the Outdoors

Timestamps: 59:27 – 72:34

• Philosophical Discussion:
  • “Regular life here is fake. It’s not how humans are designed to live or survive. The wild is the real world.” (53:56, Wayne Tanner)
  • Happiness, contentment, and the mental health crisis are linked to being too removed from nature.
• The power of voluntary struggle:
  • “When you voluntarily struggle, you get a beautiful feeling when it’s over. If you don’t, you get a slow dose of poison—misery, anxiety, panic attacks for no reason.” (64:13, Joe Rogan)
• Culture of Respect:
  • Hunting's unique value: To men, “respect” means more than “love” (65:51, Wayne Tanner).

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7. Hunting Stories: Community, Challenge & The Pinnacle of Experience

Timestamps: 66:32 – 99:12

• Epic Pack-Out Tale:
  • Cameron and Adam describe packing out elk from remote wilderness with friends, emphasizing bonding, struggle, and satisfaction:
    • “We did what we had to do, and we look forward to doing it again. The difficulty, the intensity, that's what's real.” (70:58, Wayne Tanner)
• Comparing Fulfillment:
  • The speech by Israel Adesanya after his win is played and Rogan contrasts it with the lasting happiness from completing a tough hunt. (73:31–80:13)
    • “Find your thing. Outdoor adventure is mine—get to your pinnacle. That’s happiness.” (80:24, Cam Canaday)

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8. Hunting Technology & Ethics

Timestamps: 130:06 – 176:15

• Advancements in Equipment:
  • Discussion on the evolution of gear: rangefinders, release aids, sights, camo, thermal optics.
  • Concerns about thermal optics (“thermals”) making hunting too easy; many states banning their use for fair chase.
• Primitive vs. Modern Methods:
  • Trad (traditional) hunters’ perspectives, and ethical debates about maintaining hunting as a challenging, skill-intensive pursuit.
  • Riff on the invention of archery releases and the continual evolution of hunting technology.

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9. Personal Development, Health, and Mindset

Timestamps: 183:12 – 191:14

• Physical & Mental Health Gains:
  • All three emphasize how modern techniques (nutrition, stem cells, peptides, altitude training, proper conditioning) have made them stronger, healthier, and more effective hunters—even as they age.
• Jelly Roll as a Role Model:
  • Discussion of the artist’s dramatic weight loss and positive mental transformation as an inspiration to millions.

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10. Big Picture Reflection: Passing on Wisdom

Timestamps: 191:48 – end

• “What did you learn this hunting season?”

  • Rogan: The importance of leg conditioning and not overtraining (192:27).
  • Adam: Consistent self-improvement directly enhances fulfillment (194:13).
  • Cam (Hanes): Finds most meaning in sharing his experience and helping others succeed (198:28).

• Closing encouragement to listeners:

  • “Find your thing. Get on a path. Take the first step, then just keep going.” (123:12, Joe Rogan)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Joe Rogan:

  • “If you could see it all at once... You'd think, oh my God, we're at war. There's a war in the natural world.” (05:42)
  • “What people don't understand is, you're not gonna put a dent in [mountain lion] population. They're so sneaky.” (39:46)
  • “Voluntary struggling—if you do that, then the regular world is easier.” (65:05)

• Adam Greentree:

  • “I always say the real world is not this society—it's the wild.” (54:39)
  • “I've got no desire to hunt a mountain lion again. But as someone that's in the know... I wanted to educate myself prior to that hunt.” (45:17)

• Cameron Hanes:

  • “Even if they didn't require you to take the meat... still, they need to be killed. Just to make the deer and elk population work.” (46:12)
  • “I enjoy being part of the success of others and sharing what’s important to me. That drives me.” (198:28)

• Wildest Moment:

  • Taylor (Wayne’s brother) recounts being stalked by a mountain lion during an ultra-run, barely escaping:
    • “I took off running as hard as I could—it was right behind me... I almost thought, I'm just gonna lay down here and die, because I'm not gonna outrun this thing.” (32:52)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:58 – Adam’s mountain lion/livestock story
• 04:08 – Urban insulation from nature: “While you’re at Starbucks…”
• 07:44 – Japanese brown bear attacks surge
• 13:59 – All the hunters in Japan are aging out; military now involved
• 25:47 – City dwellers shape hunting policy in BC, results in grizzly attacks
• 39:46 – “People don’t understand; you’ll never put a dent in cat population”
• 44:41 – Why ethical hunting (with dogs, bait) is necessary for management
• 53:56 – “The real world is the wild; regular life is fake”
• 64:13 – “If you don’t struggle, you’re getting the poison in slow doses…”
• 70:58 – The epiphany of a hard-earned pack-out—“That was real.”
• 73:31 – Israel Adesanya’s epic post-fight happiness speech played & discussed
• 99:12 – Learning from every hunt, bowhunting’s lifelong curve
• 130:06 – Debate on optics, thermal technology, and fair chase ethics
• 183:12 – Health, stem cells, hormone optimization—hunting after 50
• 191:48 – “What did you learn this season?” reflections

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Tone & Style

Consistently real, raw, and conversational. The group blends hunting wisdom, dark natural truths, comedy, and deep reflection. The tone is passionate and educational but always relatable, with many “look-you-in-the-eye” moments and frequent cursing for emphasis—the signature Rogan dirt-under-the-nails intensity.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the wild, hunting ethics, how modernity disconnects us from our roots, and how struggle is fundamentally linked to lasting fulfillment. Through thrilling stories and big-picture philosophy, Rogan, Hanes, and Greentree showcase the value of getting after real experiences and the importance of sharing that wisdom broadly.

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For more info:

• Cameron Hanes: @cameronrhanes
• Adam Greentree: @adam.greentree
• joerogan.com for future show notes and links

Transcript

[Joe Rogan]

Joe Rogan podcast.

[Wayne Tanner]

Check it out. The Joe Rogan experience.

[Joe Rogan]

Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[Wayne Tanner]

Hey, we're live.

[Joe Rogan]

Hey, gentlemen. What's happening?

[Wayne Tanner]

What is going on?

[Joe Rogan]

Good to see you guys again.

[Wayne Tanner]

Bow hunting brothers.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, we're just talking about the mountain lion that we have in the lobby and how insane that thing is. So, Adam, you shot that mountain lion when?

[Cam Canaday]

I think it was about six or seven years ago now.

[Joe Rogan]

And you ate it. And I ate some of it. You sent some to me. It's really good. Believe it or not, ladies and gentlemen.

[Cam Canaday]

You wouldn't think so, but it's incredible.

[Joe Rogan]

Everybody says it's like. They. The way they describe is like a. I think Renell said this a superior pork.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, yeah. It's like, I. I think of it as a cross between venison and chicken. And then. And I only did it quick on the barbecue, and I'm not a great cook, but it was that tender and that tasty.

[Joe Rogan]

But the. The story behind the mountain lion's nuts, like, that was a. Like a murderous mountain lion.

[Cam Canaday]

It was. I felt a bit funny about it to start with because, like, the dogs do all the hunting, right? The dogs smell it. Dogs find it. They put it up in a tree. But the further I looked into it, I'm like, well, you need the tree because you want to sex it, and you want to age it. You know, you want to make sure it's a lion that's, you know, old, and it has to be a male to shoot it in Colorado, at least at the time, you had to, anyway, so. So it was actually the perfect way to hunt. But then seeing how destructive that individual line was, at least I was telling Cam about this when we got here, that it must have grabbed the cow like a beef cow. Must have grabbed it on the neck, and the cow couldn't move, you know, but it was still fully alive internally and vocally, it was still alive. And when we got there, the mountain lion was, like, eating it from its rear in. And had been there for at least an hour or two because there was quite a lot of meat that had been eaten out from the cow's ass and kicking its hooves. Yeah. And it just. But the cow couldn't get up, so it was. It was literally eating it while it was still alive. And as the dogs were running down there, you could hear this cow off in the distance just, like, screaming, like, mooing, flat out, and you could tell something was wrong. The dogs got there, the line ran off. We end up Calling the rancher in. The rancher come out, put the cow out of its misery. Still screaming on the ground right in front of me. I was. Hey, I was teared up, like, you know, like, I don't like suffering like the next person. So it was a very horrible moment. So then it was like, now I'm into it. Like, now I'm into finding this line.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like a werewolf's loose in your town. You know, having a. That. How much did that cat weigh, by the way?

[Cam Canaday]

I. By the way, I held it up for size, and I could hold it for maybe 30 seconds, and I literally couldn't hold it up anymore. And I was trying to show the size of, you know, how big that line was.

[Joe Rogan]

It looks like it's at least 150 pounds.

[Cam Canaday]

It's giant, so it's like 170.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what you think it would be on the. On the paw, I guess, as it were.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, yeah. Live.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

That's a big animal.

[Joe Rogan]

We were standing out in front of it, like, going, imagine if this thing jumped on you.

[Cam Canaday]

It's a living monster.

[Joe Rogan]

It is a monster. It's a real monster. And he's like, oh, they kill their animal, their prey first. No, they don't. Just make sure it doesn't move anymore.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, just whatever's good for eating.

[Joe Rogan]

Paralyzed, they'll just start eating it.

[Cam Canaday]

Whatever's good for eating, it's on.

[Wayne Tanner]

We're the only thing that has compassion in the wild, you know, like the putting out of the misery, like the rancher did. You know, that's one thing about hunters, ranchers. We do appreciate life and death. And there is a time where, hey, let's put out of its misery. But it's. Yeah, it's. Man is the only one who thinks about that. An animal they'll just start eating, they could care less about. They don't even know about pain, really, or no being merciful or anything like that. It's just what we do.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah. I always say, like, the line in Africa, like, it stripes a zebra across the back end, and the zebra gets away, and it's just got, like, blood pouring out of it and it's got this horrible wound that it's going to have to live with. That line has not lost any sleep over that ever in its life. It's not even a thought.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, it's just fascinating that all these different creatures exist with us because we're so insulated for the most part. Like most people are so insulated. Living in cities, traveling on Buses and planes and cars and never, never seeing a thing like this in real life. And you realize like at the same time, while you're going to Starbucks and you know you're, you're picking out the new iPhone, there's a lion running full speed at a herd of zebras right now. Like, right now in the world, there's a lion full speed at the zebra and it's gonna tackle it, it's gonna grab it by its face. And all these animals exist to keep each other in check. That's the real beauty of nature. And you really see it. When we saw that we were out yesterday, Cam and I were, we were hunting for pigs and we saw a feral cat make a pounce on a mouse. Like we were in the perfect. It was one of the. Because even though, like it's a kitty cat, like a little tiny kitty cat, it was fluffy too. It was kind of cute. We watched a predator in the rare moment when you see him executing a kill. I mean, it was only a feral cat, but it was still. We saw, we saw his little butt wiggle. We saw that thing that they do with a ding and then up in the air, like, that is cool. It was so wild.

[Wayne Tanner]

And that's going on multiple places throughout on our planet right now, you know, right now, as you said.

[Joe Rogan]

Everywhere.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. Like if you could have like zoom in on a little camera. All these little.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

Interactions of predator, prey or. I mean, that's happening.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, if you could see it all at once. Like if there was a camera on every single predator, prey encounter simultaneously in the world and it was broadcast on a screen that was like 700ft high, you would think, oh my God, we're at war. There's a war in the natural world.

[Cam Canaday]

It's a constant war planet.

[Joe Rogan]

Just cats alone. Have you ever seen the numbers of what feral cats alone just house cats kill. It's literally in the billions in North America. Billions every year.

[Wayne Tanner]

Non stop kill.

[Joe Rogan]

Imagine how many rats there would be if the cats weren't out there. Like, it's all. There's a balance to it all. Oh my God, these cats are killing everything. Right. Imagine how many fucking mice would be out there if there weren't cats.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, that's true.

[Joe Rogan]

It's all balanced.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. That to Adam's point about his lion in Colorado, it's so managed that that that animal actually probably could have been killed off, like because it was killing livestock, you know. But when you kill an lion in Colorado, it's very detailed, very documented and tracked. It's like, you can only take. Like in the unit. I was hunting lion. I didn't kill one. But you could only kill 35 in the year. And every time a lion comes in, they. They catalog it, check it, get it, you know, all the information in there. And then that's one of the 35. Once you reach 35 quota, you're done.

[Cam Canaday]

You're done.

[Joe Rogan]

Let's put this in perspective, because if that doesn't happen, and by the way, all that money goes back to the state, goes to game wardens. It helps everybody helps conservation. If you don't have that, you know what you have, you have what's going on in Japan, where Japan is having massive brown bear attacks. So just last year, they had a kill. I think it was 1,000. It's at least 1,000. I think it was more than 1,000 bears last year.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And this year is projected to be even higher than last year. So the bears at the fucking military has to go in and they're having a war on. Giant brown bears that are killing I.

[Wayne Tanner]

Don'T know how many people already this year.

[Joe Rogan]

A shit ton.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, a shit ton.

[Joe Rogan]

Jamie put that into perplexity, our sponsor. How many people have been killed in Japan by grizzly bears or. Well, they're not grizzly bears, but they're essentially.

[Cam Canaday]

Brown bear.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, brown bear. Record surge of brown bear attacks in 2025 with at least 13 fatalities and over 200 injuries. Holy fuck. Making it the deadliest year for bear attacks in recent history. Majority of fatal attacks have occurred in Hokkaido. Hokkaido, where brown bears are more prevalent. And the number of attacks has prompted emergency responses, including the deployment of military personne in some regions. Dude, I've been hearing people in Montana and people in Wyoming that have been saying we're seeing more brown bears than ever before. Guys are going on elk hunts and getting freaked out and, like, they have to delist these things. Like, they are totally fearless. They have. They've never been hunted, so they have no fear of humans. How many guys have you heard where the gun goes off and the bear shows up after the gun goes off because it knows that the elk is down or the moose is down?

[Cam Canaday]

Like a dinner bell.

[Joe Rogan]

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[Cam Canaday]

I flew into H Kaido, Japan, had a period where they would let foreigners hunt and it had to be of a bow and I was chasing SE s over there and I had no idea they had a brown bear at all. And I was going through these big reedy area like you know the reads are up above your head and there was just a game trail going in there like that the deer had been using. And as I was going through there I could see that it would it was starting to open up a little bit more like a flattened out section maybe like a where the deer had been bedded. And I got in there, and there was a seeker deer just like the rib cage all chewed out. And it was just a big muddy clearing where this brown bear had got in there and just like, rolled around with this carcass. But the prints in the mud were like that. I had no ide. Like, I had no idea there was even bears there.

[Joe Rogan]

So what year is this?

[Cam Canaday]

It'd have to be 10 or 11 years ago now.

[Joe Rogan]

But Google was still around, right?

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You didn't check. You didn't go, hey, what's in the area?

[Cam Canaday]

Started messaging the outfitter and being like, dude, there's bears here.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at that bear.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah. And then he. He started telling me that it's some of the biggest brown bears there is.

[Joe Rogan]

Bro, that bear up that guy's hood, That's a big.

[Cam Canaday]

That's a big bear.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

But the police force, because I believe there was an unarmed police force at the time, they had an issue with a bear where it had killed two hunters there. And he had to go in and shoot this bear. He had photos on a tractor, and I don't do the gruesome photos, but he's just flicking through his phone and the next photo is a guy with his face missing from this brown bear attack. And another photo, the bear, when they. When he went in to shoot the bear, the bear was in a stream, holding the guy down in the water, eating him in the water. Oh. And it, like, so, yeah, pretty gruesome. So it's pretty full on. But up until that point, I never even knew there was a brown bear in Japan.

[Joe Rogan]

Bro, before you go someplace with a bow that makes sense, do a cursory Internet search.

[Cam Canaday]

You know, even if they're like, come.

[Joe Rogan]

On, you guys have the. The Internet shut the up. You were telling me some Starlink things going by, they're way.

[Wayne Tanner]

They're way behind in Australia.

[Cam Canaday]

Talk about that one.

[Wayne Tanner]

They just got the Internet.

[Joe Rogan]

This guy is a traveling bow hunter, and he doesn't check to see if there's enormous.

[Cam Canaday]

Of the unknown.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, that's cute. That's cute. Look, there's plenty of unknown out there. You know, you don't need to add to it.

[Cam Canaday]

There's. It's all disappearing. All unknowns disappear because of the Internet a little bit.

[Wayne Tanner]

Another layer to that Japan story is the reason why they have to deploy the military is because all the hunters are aging out. So there was hunters there, but because hunting is kind of like this dying thing for this next generation, there's not enough hunters so they have to get the military involved. Otherwise it would be hunters like, you know, you going over there and they've talked about, like, I mean, I know there's Americans who had volunteered to do it, but that's another part of it is this next generation just isn't hunting.

[Joe Rogan]

I have another question. Jamie, put this into perplexity, please. How many mountain lions were killed with depredation tags in 2024 in California? Because what I had read on a forum. So it has to be correct, because those guys are all experts.

[Wayne Tanner]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I had read that an equal number of mountain lions had been killed with depredation tags by, like, experts with dogs, like, to bring them in than if they'd given tags out. So if they had given tags out and let people mountain lion hunt, you would have the exact same amount of mountain lions that they had to kill. And instead of that, you would have revenue.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, money.

[Wayne Tanner]

The opposite.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Instead of paying.

[Cam Canaday]

And the collection of the meat.

[Joe Rogan]

All right. California's not yet published a full 2025 total. But the best available data as of July 2025 shows at least 167 mountain lions reported taken under depredation permits in 2020 and 166 in 2022, with annual totals of over 100 in recent years. So every year they have to kill. Kill at least 100 mountain lions. Yeah, probably quite a bit more. It looks like 67 more. 66 more.

[Wayne Tanner]

And I would say it's only went up since then.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, well, the thing is, like, they're doing nothing to curb the population. And this is the thing is, like, people go, oh, it's okay. Let nature do its thing. No, it doesn't do its thing. It kills your dog. Okay. One of the things they found out in San Francisco in the Bay Area, was when they do shoot these mountain lions, they've done an analysis of their diet. It's 50% dogs and cats.

[Cam Canaday]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

50% of their diet is eaten people's pets. So they're hunting people's pets. That means you are. If you're a dog lover, you're allowing a monster to eat your dog because you think that's the right thing to do and to be kind with nature. He. No, you have to hunt them. You have to get them the fuck away from you and keep a healthy population of them. And if you don't do that, it comes back to bite you in the dick.

[Wayne Tanner]

Here's. Here's one other search, Jamie. Can you see how many mountain lions were taken in Oregon legally? Because that would Be like Oregon's, of course, just right north of California. Let's compare the legal harvest in a state that hunt. We can't use dogs. But you can kill them when you see them. You can buy a tag in the season.

[Joe Rogan]

It's very difficult to kill them.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right. If you can't use dogs to do that, they have to have the season open all year and they just hope enough are getting killed, but then they still have to kill, deprivate, depredation.

[Joe Rogan]

And is that a situation where you, you buy like a mountain lion tag, like just an extra tag and you just have it just in case you run into one. So if you're out in the wilderness and you're hunting elk, but you have a mountain lion tag.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, that's it. So we, we were hoping, you know, if you see one. Basically I have a bear tag, lion tag.

[Joe Rogan]

Deer and elk says Oregon kills far more cougars each year than California. But those Oregon numbers can come mainly from sport hunting and agency control, not from depredation tags. Oh, wait a minute. Agency control is what we're looking at, not depredation. So what is the numbers here? 160.

[Cam Canaday]

Reword the question.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, let's reword the question and ask how many were killed in California from agency control. Put that in there. How many mountain lions were killed in California through agency control? Because we were just looking at depredation tags, which is like what a hunter or excuse me, a farmer gets.

[Wayne Tanner]

So it says in Oregon that we could kill 970 but that they never kill that many.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. They did not publish a queen statewide tally labeled specifically as agency control mountain lion kills and current official tables group most lethal removals under depredation permits rather than separate agency control category. As a result, there's no single publicly available number that states how many mountain lions were killed through agency control alone. Let's just put this in. How many mountain lions were killed in California in 2024? Just period. Let's just ask that question. Yeah, I don't even know where we get this data.

[Wayne Tanner]

I don't know. It'd have to be fishing game.

[Cam Canaday]

20.

[Joe Rogan]

That doesn't make any sense. Oh, so they're saying these fig. This figure does not include deaths from vehicle. But that's not true because they just said earlier that it was 100 and 480 depredation incidents and 222 depredation permits. Out of those permits, 52 authorized lethal take and 20 mountain lions were actually reported as lethally taken on depredation permits. That's Weird. This is totally different numbers than it was given us before. So now it's only saying it was 52 authorized lethal ones.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Huh.

[Wayne Tanner]

I don't know.

[Joe Rogan]

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[Wayne Tanner]

That seems coochie, but that is, that's for like a ranch owner to do the killing.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Wayne Tanner]

So they say, hey, this lion's been killing my calves 480 times. And 222 of those, they said, okay, go ahead and kill the lion.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, Right. So this is permits that were released rather than the agency doing the depredation work.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right. So you would add this total to the other number we had.

[Joe Rogan]

Right? Because the depredation thing too, you got to think it's ranchers, right? So these guys are all out in the middle of nowhere. A lot of the depredations, though, that they might be listing is what we were talking about with San Francisco where they found that they're eating people's cats and dogs. So maybe they get depredations. It's not like. But you can't give it out to the fucking homeowner.

[Wayne Tanner]

No. Yeah, that would.

[Joe Rogan]

So you only give those tags out to ranchers, it seems like. Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

To people that have livestock.

[Joe Rogan]

And the rest of depredation is probably done by some sort of a government guy.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, they would call it. They would call it something other than depredation.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you think he uses dogs? How do you think they get him?

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. Or snare. Like in Oregon, Wayne has done this where people. They're losing their goats, their calves, something like sheep, something like that. And then they'll let you snare it. So you can go in there, you take pictures of the animals that are killed. And another snaring is brutal. Yeah. Or trap.

[Cam Canaday]

Trap.

[Wayne Tanner]

It's a foothold. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

In Texas, they treat them like coyotes.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You just whack them.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I think that's the way to go because I think they're so hard to see. It's just so hard to find different politics.

[Cam Canaday]

I've seen maybe two in all the hunting that I've done, just naturally in the wild. And you would have seen more, but it's not a big number. They're out there, but they're just so sneaky, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, they're so sneaky. We saw one. I told you the story. We saw the one in Utah with Colton.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Huge one like that one. He was like, as big as yours. It was terrifying. Inside of a car, 30 yards away, and I'm shit my pants. Yeah. I'm not even.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And we're armed, you know, and we have bows.

[Wayne Tanner]

We have, you know, the difference between Oregon and California and Texas, you know, Texas being able to shoot them like coyotes is. That's politics, you know. Yeah, of course. West coast is liberal.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, Utah changed it, though. Utah has it now. Like coyotes.

[Wayne Tanner]

Perfect.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's how it should.

[Cam Canaday]

I think there has to be, like, management behind it.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't even know if you have to have a tag in Utah anymore. Let's find that out. Put that search in. Do you need a tag to get to hunt mountain lion in Utah? Maybe they just give out over the counter tax anybody who wants them, and they're still collecting revenue, which is ideal. That's the best way to do it.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah. And if the numbers are great enough.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But Texas doesn't even do that. They go, no, we don't want to get involved. Just you go ahead and shoot them and it's a fucking monster in your backyard.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

This is coming from someone who loves them. Yeah, I love them.

[Cam Canaday]

I love them.

[Joe Rogan]

They're amazing. Okay. Yes. You must have a valid Utah hunting or combination hunting fishing license to hunt mountain lions. But you do not need a separate cougar tag. Okay. So it is like a coyote.

[Wayne Tanner]

So it's year round harvest for licensed hunters and you just have to get it checked in after you kill.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Which is also smart.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because they want to know what it's been eating.

[Wayne Tanner]

That's how you do it.

[Cam Canaday]

That's what I've done with.

[Joe Rogan]

That's how you do it. Utah, way to go.

[Wayne Tanner]

Good job.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the right way to do it. And of course you should have a hunting license.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I think you have to have one in Texas as well to hunt anything.

[Wayne Tanner]

This, talking about this, this actually that's not true.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, what now I'm thinking that. No, I think in Texas you don't even need a hunting license to hunt exotics.

[Cam Canaday]

No, not if they're on a private.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. I think you just go hunt them.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Okay.

[Wayne Tanner]

Talking about politics in different areas, it reminds me of in B.C. they outlawed grizzly hunting. And just, just recently, maybe last week, you know, a grizzly attacked a school group. That's another thing. So where in the cities who control a lot of the voting power of the. That's a province, but states here is the city's determinant and people living in the cities don't know what the going on in the wilderness. So they vote. Oh, I love lions. I love grizzly bear. I love wolves. We need to have more of them. Meanwhile, the people out in the mountains are actually dealing with this shit. And so Vancouver, you know, if we're talking BC specifically Vancouver pretty much makes the decisions for British Columbia. They said no more grizzly hunting and now it's just, you know, grizzly bear out of control.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you ever meet my friend Mike Hawkridge?

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, we went to dinner.

[Joe Rogan]

That's right.

[Wayne Tanner]

After a fight once.

[Joe Rogan]

That's right. One of those steakhouses in Vegas. Right. Mike's great. And he and Ben o' Brien took me on a moose hunt once and he was telling me that this was before the grizzly bear band. He was like, there's so many of them. And he had to shoot one from six feet away. One was breaking into a cabin and he had to shoot it from six feet away. Dude, like they're terrifying up there.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They have so many of Them and they have wolves everywhere. We stumbled on a wolf kill. We got there, you know, it was probably a day old, I don't know, but it was nothing but hair. That was the thing that shocked me.

[Cam Canaday]

Did it used to be a moose calf? Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

And it was. There was nothing but hair. That was what was weird. It's like I didn't anticipate seeing so much hair. Like, the moose hair was everywhere, just everywhere. I thought it'd be like a dead animal, but it was just basically bones and there was, like a tiny bit of meat on, you know, corners of the bones and hair everywhere. Yeah, it was just like they went just tearing into this moose cap and coughing up hair. Yeah, I didn't see one when I was up there. Although I think we did see one in the distance when we're at John and Jen's place. We saw one. We thought it was a bear or we thought it was a wolf run across the road. I was either with you or I was with Ben.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't remember who it was, but I've never seen a wolf in the wild. Like a real, like, absolute. Like, look at him. Holy shit.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

They look at you in a certain way.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, bro.

[Cam Canaday]

Like, one of the first trips I ever did to Canada was up in Northwest Territories, and I actually thought it was caribou coming down the river. Like, just the color of the wolves, similar to a caribou. And then I worked out that wolves. And the guy that I was with, he's like, oh, it's a pack of wolves. And I'm like, can I call them in?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, God.

[Cam Canaday]

And he's Adam Green tree.

[Joe Rogan]

What's wrong with you?

[Cam Canaday]

He's like, yeah. And then I got up against the tree and I just started doing like a. Call it a do for like a fox or a wild dog back in Australia. And this whole pack come in like a wounded rabbit. You'd never seen them come in. They were, like, up in our vision up there. Yeah. Like a rabbit called Distressed rabbit. And the next minute, that was just like they were fully surrounding us and just come in. Yeah, it was freaking cool. But I just remember they could fully see me at that point, and they were still just, like, looking through me. And I was like, yeah, that's sick.

[Joe Rogan]

But you ever hear Dudley story when Dudley. Dudley and some guy that he was with in B.C. i think it was BC, pretty sure. Or no, it was Alberta. They killed a. I think it was a. I think it was an elk. But when they killed it, they killed it. Essentially on top of where the wolves den, like, right there. And wolves started circling around them. And the guide had like one round in his rifle, and Dudley had like two arrows or three arrows left. And they're surrounded by wolves. And Dudley shot two of them with a bow and arrow, and the. The guide shot one with a rifle. They shot three wolves. Three wolves. He said there was like, they were surrounding him. He said it was the freakiest thing he's ever experienced.

[Cam Canaday]

It wouldn't have been a great feeling.

[Joe Rogan]

He told the story on the podcast, and it was just like that, man. You only have two bullets. You like. What is wrong with you?

[Cam Canaday]

Two bullets in one life.

[Joe Rogan]

What do you. What. What the are you doing, man?

[Cam Canaday]

You know, there killed a bull in New Mexico one year, and I killed it late in the afternoon. So we did a pack out. This is just going back to the mountain lion story. We took. We did a pack out with me, went back in. In the dark with head torches, and as we're walking in, I seen a couple of eyes or whatever, and it was just like, deer, mule deer or something like that. And then I'm like, oh, there's another deer up in front of us. And as we got closer, the. The eyes were too high, and it's just like, n. That's not a deer. And it was a mountain lion up in the tree. Like, it was right up in the tree. There was the kill there. That lion stayed in the tree while we grabbed more meat and packed it out.

[Joe Rogan]

You grabbed his meat? Yeah, the mountain lion's meat.

[Wayne Tanner]

Well, it was his kill.

[Joe Rogan]

It was your kill.

[Cam Canaday]

My kill. And I was going back in for it and just thinking it was a set of deer eyes. And as we're walking up, the eyes were like, up in the tree. And that's like. So I've only seen two. That's one of them. And it was in the dark, and I swear, if it was daylight, I would have seen one in my whole entire hunting.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you see Cam's brother's story on. On Instagram? Oh, my God. Cam's brother was running late at night in California. At night in California. And should we play it?

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Did we ever play it on the show? I think we might have. We might have.

[Wayne Tanner]

Did you? Yeah, Yeah, I know you mentioned it.

[Joe Rogan]

Terrifying.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, it's terrible. I've never seen that in Australia.

[Joe Rogan]

By the way, what's your brother's name again?

[Wayne Tanner]

Taylor.

[Joe Rogan]

Taylor. It's like t. Spike.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, yeah, Taylor. So it's my. It's my stepdad and mom had two kids, Taylor and Megan.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh.

[Wayne Tanner]

So those are my brothers or brother and sister.

[Joe Rogan]

And then he does ultras, too.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, he's. He's actually really good. Yeah, good.

[Joe Rogan]

He seemed like one of them dudes who had to get it in. You know, he had to get it in at night.

[Wayne Tanner]

He. He did a 300 mile race just last year. He got. He's competing, trying to win the thing, of course, but got second. Wow. The Arizona Monster 300.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God.

[Wayne Tanner]

So that hurts my hips and my joints. That's the level he's at.

[Cam Canaday]

300 miles or 300 km?

[Wayne Tanner]

Miles.

[Cam Canaday]

That makes it so much worse.

[Joe Rogan]

You thinking about kilometers? I thought you're an American now. Didn't we convert you?

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, we were trying to teach you.

[Joe Rogan]

Inches the other night.

[Cam Canaday]

My lip, for some reason. It's an American thing, you guys.

[Joe Rogan]

It's probably illegal over there.

[Wayne Tanner]

Probably.

[Joe Rogan]

They'll take it away.

[Wayne Tanner]

Government's gonna control it.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

How's that working out?

[Wayne Tanner]

You can. You can do that, but you have to wear a mask.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you find Taylor's video?

[Wayne Tanner]

It's. I think it's on his Instagram.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it is. It's definitely. Did I send it to you at one point in time maybe? I just found a video of you talking about it now. It's. Unless he took it down. I don't think he took it down. What is his Instagram handle?

[Wayne Tanner]

It's T Spike something. Like. Like that T Spike something.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I'll find it.

[Cam Canaday]

T spike 300 miles coming in.

[Joe Rogan]

Second place in 300 miles is bananas. And meanwhile, how. How much difference was there between him and number one?

[Wayne Tanner]

I think a couple hours probably.

[Cam Canaday]

Oh, God, that's insane.

[Wayne Tanner]

But it took.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, God.

[Wayne Tanner]

I think he did it in 88 hours.

[Joe Rogan]

That is nuts, man.

[Cam Canaday]

That's a serious effort.

[Joe Rogan]

That is a serious effort.

[Wayne Tanner]

There's some. There's some freaks out there. For sure.

[Cam Canaday]

I'll do it one day.

[Wayne Tanner]

He's one of them.

[Joe Rogan]

Are you going to do it one day for real?

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

T. Spike 2.

[Cam Canaday]

Couple more visits away as well.

[Joe Rogan]

What?

[Cam Canaday]

Jamie, I don't know where the video is.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, I'll find it. I'll find it. Yeah, he's. Oh, it's me talking about it. That's.

[Wayne Tanner]

Oh, he must have reshared that or something.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, here it is. I found it right away. It's just his face. When you see his face staring at the camera, it says lion. Oh, you got it. Okay. It says lion. Update. Yeah, this is it. Give me some volume.

[Taylor (T Spike)]

Restless night of this reoccurring. Dream of these green eyes hot on my tail. I was coming down the trail last night just after dark, and I see these green eyes off to the side of the trail. I mean, right on the side of the trail. What I thought was a coyote, I just kind of yelled. And then when it stood up, I realized it was a fucking mountain lion. I took off running as hard as I could and I looked over my shoulder and it was right behind me. I ran for probably 100 yards words and realized it wasn't giving up. And I turned around and I kicked rocks and I jumped up and down and I screamed to the top of my lungs. And this thing did not care. I did that a few times to the point that at one point I almost thought, I'm just gonna lay down here and die because I'm not gonna outrun this thing. Another time it got really close to me and I thought I had no choice but to try to scare it. And I turned and I screamed and I kicked rocks. I mean, to the point it was. I mean, it was right, right there. And I finally decided, well, you just gotta run. Run for your fucking life. I've done some crazy shit in my life. I've been pretty scared. But this, this was next level. This was next level. It terrified me. You know, I think maybe if I'd had a gun, I could have done something. Pepper spray. I don't think that it was so close that I would have probably pepper sprayed myself. So I don't know. I was a half mile from the city in Lake Forest, California. I mean, like straight up, I. I could hear dogs barking. And at one point I thought maybe that's what kind of detoured it. But you didn't care. So this morning, I'm gonna ride the bike. Probably won't go back out there in the dark. I did wait around for the sheriff's department and fishing game because there was other hikers on the trail that were above me that would have had to have come down. And I. I just don't know how other people would have responded. Like I said, I've done some scary. I've been in the woods my whole life, but this, this was next level. It was terrifying. But I'm all good. Back at it, right? I guess if this only happens one time in your life, I got it out of the way. I'm a lucky fucker. Have a good day. I'll keep at it.

[Cam Canaday]

Doesn't work like that.

[Joe Rogan]

That is the consequences of letting monsters live in your neighborhood. Yeah, that's real. And all these wilderness loving people, like, I guarantee you, you're not out there as much as that guy is. I guarantee you not out there as much as you are. You are. That's the difference between people that really understand what we're talking about and people that are looking at this from this knee jerk love and compassion for nature perspective.

[Cam Canaday]

Well, back to what Cam said. It's like the majority of votes are people that don't get in that environment. And it's not just about hunting. That's for farmers anywhere as well. There's people in the city that are making votes for people that live in the country and the lifestyle is completely different.

[Joe Rogan]

And they don't understand what they're talking, especially the BC band. Like, we're gonna ban trophy hunting. Trophy hunting's bad. But what about monster control? Isn't that good? I'm on team people, okay? I love animals, but I am on team people.

[Cam Canaday]

Imagine if they knew how soft we were. They don't have to spit out hair. Like the flesh is right here. It's soft. It's so easy to get into because.

[Wayne Tanner]

They, they usually go in at the stomach, you know, or the ass. It's like our stomach, how soft those are.

[Cam Canaday]

Straight to the organs.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, it's right. Right to the good stuff. Not good.

[Cam Canaday]

And it's like new even.

[Wayne Tanner]

I don't think people like, even a dog can turn into like, I killed a buck, you know, before we went on that last hunt, I killed a buck and like for the treat, for the dog, you cut off the nuts, give them the nut. So it's got hide on it, it's got the, the bucks, nuts. Basically. Dog takes off, they're just like ripping into it. It's like delicacy, right? That's just a normal dog. So a lion who's born and bred to kill. I mean, that's just the level of what animals do.

[Joe Rogan]

Your liver is a ribeye and they haven't eaten in a week. You're like, oh, baby, look at that liver. It's right there. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. This Christmas, give your idea the platform it deserves. With Squarespace, the all in one platform gives you everything you need to build a website that sells, engages and gets found online. From managing products and payments to bookings and SEO, Squarespace helps you create a site that works as hard as you do. Go to squarespace.com rogan for a free trial and when you are ready to launch, use the code Rogan to get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This episode is brought to you by Onx Hunt. Hunters. Listen up. Millions of hunters use the Onx Hunt app and here's why. It turns your phone into a GPS that works anywhere. Even without cell phone service, you'll see exactly where you are. Every property line and who owns the land. You can connect your cellular, trail cams, drop custom waypoints, dial in the wind, and a whole lot more. Whether you're chasing elk on public, finding the back corners of your deer lease, or knocking on doors for permission, Onx Hunt gives you the knowledge and confidence to make every hunt more successful. No more second guessing boundaries, wasting daylight, or wondering what's over ridge. You'll know every single step. The best hunters aren't lucky. They're prepared. This is how you get there. So before your next hunt, get Onx Hunt, download it today and use the code JRE for 20% off your [e-mail].

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, and those, the dogs there that, that deer camp, you give them like a part of the. I don't know, there's some skin. It's not the flank steak, but it's just some skin there that sometimes you cut off that goes over the stomach and run off, Eat that. Eat pounds and pounds of meat. A regular dog. So a lion. Yeah, they'll eat. What they do is they just eat as much meat as they can and they just kind of lay around. So that's the time to actually run from a lion is after a big meal, you know what I mean? Because their stomachs are full of meat. Maybe that's why Taylor, maybe that lion that chased him had just killed a deer and was full of protein. But you know, they still hunt. That's what they do. It's their instinct. But sometimes you can time it right and maybe that's saves your life.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, geez. That's not a risk we should be taking. No, this is.

[Wayne Tanner]

If you can avoid it, it's always better.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like they're so hard to find. People don't understand you're not going to put a dent in their population. This is not like any other. It's not like deer. You can depopulate a deer. Like an environment of deer. If you went crazy and hunted at them all and you said, let's eradicate all the deer, every hunter, you could shoot as many deer as you want. Just let's go do it right now. You can get rid of all the deer. You ain't ever doing that with cats.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, they're too Sneaky.

[Joe Rogan]

Not now, not now.

[Wayne Tanner]

Even in Australia, with buffalo, you can fly and eliminate a lot of stuff. Pigs here, deer, buffalo down there, the water buffalo. But you're not doing helicopter killing of lions.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, no, you can do wolves. They'll lower wolf populations that way. And they do. They do in some parts of the world. They do in Alaska, right?

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They do wolf kills from helicopters.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. And. And yeah, I mean, lions are just tough, but they're so I did sneaky. I didn't even realize this, but Oregon, as we were looking at those numbers that Jamie pulled up, Oregon, the goal is 970 lions a year. But we never get to it.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Wayne Tanner]

So what that means is we're not meeting our objective of lion kills. That means there's more and more lions every. Every year.

[Joe Rogan]

Don't they factor that into the amount of tags they give, though, that there's going to be a limited amount of success. So they'll give more tags than there will be like, than they actually need.

[Wayne Tanner]

To kill for lions or for.

[Joe Rogan]

For lions today?

[Wayne Tanner]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm not sure how. How they do it. It's supposed to be like a balance, you know, I mean, if. But what happens is not enough lions are getting killed. So there's too many lions. So that means the lions are killing too many deer. No, because there's. The lion number is too high. And that's what's kind of happening. There's areas in Oregon that were great hunting at one time that are terrible now.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, here's a perfect example. Where I used to live in California, you guys been in my house. A lot of land, a lot of woods, a lot of like. There's a lot of, like, wildlife out there. Good luck finding a deer.

[Cam Canaday]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You might find two, three in a month. In a month. I see deer every day out here. I see them every day. You know why? No mountain lions. And you could shoot them. California has a mountain lion problem. Like, it's a real problem.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The place, the Tohon Ranch, that place, they had a camera out in front of one of their ponds and they got 16 different mountain lions on that camera. Sixteen.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. And what the people in LA, they have no idea what's going. But they're voting.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Wayne Tanner]

That's who controls voting, with their hearts.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Well, and they're good people. And I would have voted with them.

[Cam Canaday]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. If I had never been hunting and never been in the woods, I would have voted with them. Maybe not, maybe not. Because I'm a little fucking skeptical of People's wisdom. And I probably would have looked into it a little bit and thought about what it'd be like to get eaten by a mountain lion and go, fuck. What the fuck are we talking about?

[Wayne Tanner]

Right?

[Joe Rogan]

Kill these goddamn things. You crazy? Don't kill them all. You don't have to kill them all. They're going to exist in the woods where they're supposed to be. They're not supposed to be in Pasadena.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. They're not supposed to be wandering around the Hollywood Hills like that one that I have the big picture of. No, that one's crazy.

[Wayne Tanner]

That lion. That picture is insane.

[Joe Rogan]

Insane. The Hollywood sign behind him, and he's wearing a collar. That picture, to me, embodies, like, everything that's wrong with California. You like, you know where he is and he's in the neighborhood where people live. And you just put a collar on him.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So you could track him when he's killing dogs. Like, what. What are you saying? You know how many. Look at that photo.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, that is a sick photo.

[Wayne Tanner]

That is. That's one of the most amazing photos ever.

[Joe Rogan]

Ever taken when as soon as I saw that photo, I'm like, oh, my God, we have to buy a print.

[Cam Canaday]

What do you think he's thinking?

[Joe Rogan]

Ordered it from the photographer. What is he thinking? What am I going to kill next?

[Cam Canaday]

What.

[Joe Rogan]

And why is this fucking thing on.

[Cam Canaday]

My neck is the most taste enthusiast?

[Joe Rogan]

That's.

[Wayne Tanner]

That's right above where Huberman used to live.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, it's. Dude, it's right there, by the way. That's like, we film Fear Factor out there a bunch of times. Yeah, look at that. Oh, my God, look at his face. Imagine wandering into that. That thing is so big.

[Wayne Tanner]

How sick of a photo is that?

[Joe Rogan]

Amazing.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's all camera traps.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. So. But here's what's so critical. And you know, hunters, we can be our own worst enemies. But. But part of what discussions like this and talking about how it actually works is so important. It's not for other hunters. It's for people who don't hunt, who do vote. You know, it's like, hey, let's just educate people who don't understand. It's not your fault you don't understand. You haven't hunted your whole life. That's okay. But just listen to what we're saying and just say like, hey, when that vote comes up and it's like we're talking about, you know, being able to hunt lions with dogs or black bear with bait. Let's think about, hey, there's repercussions if we don't allow this.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, they don't just don't know what it is.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Sounds cruel. Lions with dogs. Like, oh, that's not even fair.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

You want to hunt it with a spear.

[Joe Rogan]

If you want to hunt it like we used to hunt them, hunt it with a spearman.

[Wayne Tanner]

No, bare hands is what I see. Kill with your bare hands.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the dumbest argument. That's the dumbest. How do you think we got to the point where we don't have fangs, you dolt?

[Cam Canaday]

And this we got there.

[Joe Rogan]

We evolved past that because we figured out weapons. Okay. And that's why we have cities.

[Wayne Tanner]

Never kill with their hands. At least they had a wooden spear.

[Joe Rogan]

So.

[Wayne Tanner]

What are you talking about, bare hands?

[Joe Rogan]

It's the dumbest argument of all time. And it's the comfort that don't understand that we would have never had civilization if we didn't do this.

[Cam Canaday]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

And they wouldn't exist.

[Cam Canaday]

The conversation doesn't come from a want perspective from me. I've got no desire to hunt a mountain lion again. I don't. But as someone that's in the know, because I have before, you know, and I wanted to educate myself prior to that hunt. I was doing as much reading as I could to find out do I feel good about this is. Yeah. So it's not like I. I want them still on the list to hunt because I want to go and do it again. I don't have a desire to do that again myself, but I do see that it's good management, you know, and instead of necessary, instead of them being culled and not utilized, you know, and it's actually costing money. You know, there's money going into conservation at that point from the hunter and the meat utilized, you know, and as you mentioned in. In that case, I gave that meat to a lot of people because I wanted people to see it as a food source as well, you know, as in. Because you do you sort of think of the mountain lion. You're like, the meat was amazing. Some of the most incredible meat I've ever had.

[Wayne Tanner]

I mean, even. Even if. So just say they didn't require you to take the meat and you didn't and you didn't eat it. Still, they need to be killed.

[Cam Canaday]

Yes.

[Wayne Tanner]

That's all there is to it. Just to make the. The deer and elk population. Just to make it work like it has to work. Because humans, people always say, well, Mother Nature will take care of itself. It's like, no, humans have encroached on this habitat. That's why we need to control this. This isn't like the wide open west that it once was where, yeah, maybe it'd work out eventually. It's not going to work out.

[Joe Rogan]

They were here first. They were here first.

[Cam Canaday]

We're part of the system.

[Wayne Tanner]

100 Adam, you know, he said he's killed one, he doesn't plan on killing another. I've never killed one. I've never killed a lion in my entire life. But I know it's important. So it's not like I'm this big lion hunter that I just have this passion for doing and I want to kill as many as possible. Never even killed one, but I know that we have to kill him. And in Colorado there, that's one thing. You know, you talk about sex and the animal up on up in the tree because you can see what it is. Male, female. You don't. When I hunted them, I did hunt them. I didn't kill. But you could kill any lion essentially if it didn't have, you know, it couldn't be a female with cubs but. Or kittens. But you look at them in the tree and you can decide, oh, that's a female. Probably not the best kill. Let's kill an old male. Because it's just. That's how it just works better that way. Taking old males out and. But you can do that. And same thing with baiting bear. A bear comes in. A bear is really tough to tell whether it's a boar or a sow that's male or female for those that don't know. But at a bait, when you're looking very closely, you can the. That's an old male. That's what I want to take. So that's why, that's why there's. It's not just random like I'm rifle hunting is 400 yards away running. And you kill like a bear and it has. Has cubs. You didn't realize it had cubs because the cubs are in a tree somewhere that the sow left. So that's where baiting is actually the best way to manage these numbers. And it might seem like, oh, you just throw out donuts and this and that and the bear comes in. I mean, yeah, you could term like that or you could say, no, we're targeting the. The right animal to make this work the best, best way it can.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, people need to understand that wildlife biologists and the numbers that they put up and the rules that they apply, especially the rational rules like that they Exist because it's the only effective way to hunt these things. Like, there. You don't use dogs to hunt elk. You know what I'm saying? It's like they. Because it doesn't seem right.

[Cam Canaday]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

There's. There's one effective way to get these mountain lions, and you got to tree them. You know, if you don't. If you don't have that option and you're bow hunting, you have to stumble upon one, and they're not gonna. They're gonna know you're coming for ever before you know they're there forever, hundreds of yards away. They're gonna smell you. They'll hear something. They'll turn and look at it. They have amazing eyesight, you know, like, you're not finding them. And if you want to keep the populations in check, there's like, California's got a bear problem, too, and part of their bear problem is you. Yeah. You can't use dogs anymore.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That was the only way they could really control populations.

[Wayne Tanner]

In a lot of these places, dogs are baiting. Hey, Jamie, I got another project. So, Cam Canaday, you start spelled with a K. As we were talking about, he had a deer tag. He's deer hunting in Oregon. This is what you do. You just buy a bear and a lion tag just to have with you. But he killed this giant lion. He was deer hunting. This lion came up, sat on this rock 40 yards away, and he's just like, I got a lion tag. Perfect. Boom. Got. Put a perfect arrow in this giant lion. But look at this thing.

[Cam Canaday]

And he's a big dude. He's a slob.

[Wayne Tanner]

He. He played for the Steelers for, like, six years in the NFL. And, yeah. So that was just like a happen chance. That's how you get him in Oregon, because you can't use dogs. You can't do anything else. So that lion just. Just jumped up there, and he made a perfect shot on it.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Wayne Tanner]

But look at that big thing.

[Joe Rogan]

God.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. Pretty nuts. And like I said, Cam's like six, four. I don't know, two.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you ever see the one Derek Wolf killed?

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, that was a giant one, too.

[Joe Rogan]

Giant one. So the Derek Wolf story is a great one, too, because he took so much heat online about it. People are so angry at him that he did that. And it's just people that don't understand. Yeah. Why it's necessary. Look, and first of all, if you know Derek. Derek's a legit Viking. He's a legit Viking. That guy's a giant Human being. So for him to be holding. Is there another picture? We see like the full length? That's it. There's the full length.

[Wayne Tanner]

180 pounds.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at the size of that fucking thing.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. So you. And I don't know what the numbers are, but you think a lion kills, especially a lion that big has to basically kill a deer every week, right? So that's 365 deer a year that thing is killed or. No, not 52 deer a year.

[Joe Rogan]

But imagine there's a deer every day. No, but do you know the wolf thing? They say lions are killing more deer now than ever in places where there's wolves because the wolves scare the lion off. The kill the wolves, they steal them all the time. So the lions just give up and they go kill another one. They can kill way easier than the deer can. They're way more effective killers.

[Wayne Tanner]

So think about, so 50, say 50 lion or 50 deer a year for each lion. How many lions are in Colorado? A lot. A lot, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, a lot.

[Wayne Tanner]

That's a lot of deer or, or elk calves or something's being killed.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah. Australia's got a real bad problem with shark population now. And it's like, and I'm taking it there because what's happening is for like a really good eaten fish, like a Red Emperor, you'll only get like five Red Emperor. That should, that's your quota for the day. You can only catch five. And what the sharks are doing now is you'll hook a Red emperor and the sharks will just take it off the line. So you don't have a Red emperor in the boat anymore, but one's dead because the shark's got it. So you keep fishing. And then. So now the Red Emperor numbers are declining because sharks, that's if like their favorite fish to jump to grab off a line, you can catch a cod. You'll get it to the boat because the sharks aren't going for it. But if it's a red fish, the sharks are taking it constantly. And then. So what's happened is because there's been a ban on shark fishing, shark numbers have gotten out of control. So now Red Emperor numbers have plummeted because the sharks are just eating them constantly.

[Joe Rogan]

How many people in Australia get killed by sharks every year?

[Cam Canaday]

There's been a few this year already. Yeah, I actually just had, I had my girlfriend out a couple of maybe a month or two ago and I took her to this beautiful beach and it was, it was awesome. As soon as we got there, there's Dolphins jumping out of the water and whatnot. Anyway, we never went for a swim just because of how the conditions were. And a week later, a lady was taken from that beach and her partner may have died as well. I didn't follow up on the story, but a partner got attacked as well, but got out of the water. And it's great whites, mostly on the east Coast. They seem to be running pretty rampant at the moment. It's the bleeding hearts that are making the votes.

[Joe Rogan]

Four confirmed fatal shark attacks in 2025 so far, with some trackers listing four or five deaths depending on how many incidents are class or how incidents are classified and. But think about how much less people are out there in the water than on the ground. Oh, yeah, that's the thing.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like people go, there's only four shark attacks a year. Right. But how many people are in the water?

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. Out of 500 people, it's not a.

[Joe Rogan]

Lot of people in the water swimming.

[Cam Canaday]

Out the way to go.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah. Good Lord.

[Cam Canaday]

It's absolute monster of the ocean.

[Wayne Tanner]

Oh, yeah. Isn't it weird to think that, I mean, most society doesn't know anything about the wild these days, you know, I.

[Joe Rogan]

Mean, yeah, we're domesticated.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. So it's. But even, like. I don't know, I. I always say that. I mean, we talked about this, I'm pretty sure because I talk about it all the time. But like, I always think that society, like this regular life here is fake. It's like it's not even. Not even real. It's not even how human or designed to live and survive where the wild is actually where that's what we're designed to do. Live in the mountains or hunt and survive, things like that. And so the fake life, I don't know, it's just crazy to me to think about that.

[Joe Rogan]

The fake life is what we think.

[Wayne Tanner]

Of as the real life is a real life. And it's not. It's not real. It's like what we're doing. Yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

It's just real life.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

We're. We're made to live in a society that's not by mine or your design.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right.

[Cam Canaday]

You know, and it's sort of like. And that's. I always feel out of it in society because I just feel like it's not for me, but it is, it's here and we've got to live in it. I do like going the waste of wells and getting a good injection, so. But I just want to go when I want to go.

[Joe Rogan]

That's that's the way to do it. Attack it from the outside.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Go in, go to a nice restaurant, get back out to the country.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And just fucking relax. It's better for people. You ever see that? The old days of vice, when vice used to do really cool stuff, they had Vice guide to travel. And there's this one guy who lives in the Arctic Circle. And this dude is. He's been there since the 1970s. He got a job up there and got permitted where he's like grandfathered into. Allowed to live in a small cabin up there. Like, the last guy there, he has like a permit on his door. And this guy has been living up there ever since he saw 911 in a photograph like a year after it happened. Had no idea what was going on. Very smart guy, like, intelligent, interesting guy. And lives up there with his wife. And all he does is hunt caribou and fish. And he talks about it and he's like, this is how people are supposed to live. Like when you. He's not like, he's a very intelligent guy. So, like, when he's talking about it, he's talking it from like an internal programming. Like, this is like this feeling that you get living. Like, this is how people are supposed to live. And when you live like this, you're very fulfilled and it feels normal, whereas most people don't feel normal. Most people are depressed, they have anxiety, they're worried about their career. They're worried about all this stuff that is like, human created. They're worried about our. Our. Their social status, whether they're ostracized from the neighborhood or people like them anymore because their political beliefs or whatever the it is. There's none of that out there. There's none of that because it's what's the way we were designed. But if we want all the things that we enjoy, like fucking Starlink and cell phones, like, you have to have this weird fake world that we've created, the human created world. But it's not conducive to like a healthy mindset for most people. It's not normal. And so all the. I. I have this thought about why exercise is so important for people's mental health. Because I think at the very least what it does is it gives you like the physical exertion that your body requires. But I think your body requires a connection as well. And that's what we're missing. We're missing the natural world connection. And you can get some of that out of the physical exercise. You can get Some of that out of like doing. But your body's literally designed to have to move and to complete tasks in order to survive. And that task could be like that guy out there hunting caribou, building a house, surviving, like making a homestead, growing a garden. Like, this is a normal way we are, but we're moving into this abnormal way. You know, along the way. People are losing their fucking marbles. Everyone's crazy. No one knows what a woman is anymore. Like, everyone, like literally out of their fucking mind. Out of their mind with a.

[Wayne Tanner]

The.

[Joe Rogan]

The. If the left win, the democracy will fought the right win. We're all going to be Nazis. And it's just chaos.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And none of it is normal. None of it is natural. And the reason why it's so incompatible with most people is because we're not designed for it.

[Cam Canaday]

I feel it. I know Cam's the same, but like, it's just like time doing those things that are usually in a quieter environment, in a more natural environment. Like, I mentally feel better every time. And then I. I almost feel myself slipping when I come back to the city, you know, and it's just like you sort of start letting your guard down. You just slip back into it and you're like, this is. I'm not enjoying this. And then you go back out hunting for us or camping or whatever it is. And then I do. I feel revitalized. I feel healthier. Mentally and physically, I feel healthier. And then. But adding all the other things to it, you know, like you talk about like, you know, exercise and. Yeah, it does touch on it and I. And I think all those little things help. But to really get out in fresh air is the big one for me where it's just. I do. I feel more flow state.

[Joe Rogan]

I wonder if like I'm sure Nate, like primitive man felt emotions for sure. But do you think they felt depressed?

[Wayne Tanner]

No, I mean, I think you know what I mean.

[Cam Canaday]

I feel like they're too busy. I think that survive.

[Wayne Tanner]

I think people, I think this is part of this fake society is like, are you happy? Are you happy? It's like happy. What the fuck is happy? I want to be useful out there. I want to do something. I'm not happy, sad. I'm nothing.

[Joe Rogan]

What is happy? I'm content just being right.

[Wayne Tanner]

I feel.

[Joe Rogan]

Can you feel content just being.

[Wayne Tanner]

When you're in the mountains, carrying your bow, glassing, looking, drinking, eating, looking for a place to sleep. What is that? That's what I want. I don't know what is happening. I don't know what it is, but that's like purpose. Like I have a purpose. I'm trying to kill something that is that happy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you're trying to find food.

[Wayne Tanner]

To me, that feels. Because I don't know what happy is. I see people, they laugh and they're around. Sometimes it's. It's alcohol induced or drug induced. There's like, is that supposed to be happy? What is ha. I don't know. I don't know. What. What are we. What are we calling happy? Because that's not like a little kid laughing at a birthday party. But are those both? Are they both happy?

[Joe Rogan]

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[Joe Rogan]

Well, there's. There's different kinds of happiness, right? There's happiness you get on a fun date. You know. There's happiness you get when you, you know, you do fun, stupid shit. Like, you go play, like, sandbox games. You pretend you're shooting zombies with VR. That's happy. It's fun. It's silly. You get it out of it. Everyone has a smile. You had a good time. That was wild. That's happy, too. There's a bunch of different kinds of happy. Some of it we've created. But there's content, like, are you content? Like, are you enjoying your existence?

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And I think that's a real struggle for a lot of people, right? Because there's a giant percentage of the people that are listening to this Right now that are forced to do something they don't enjoy doing most of the time. Most of the time. Most of their day, they're doing something they don't enjoy doing because they have to do it in order to do the things that they do enjoy. So if you want to go on vacation, you got to make enough money to afford the trip to Hawaii. If you want to do this, you got to do that. If you want to do this, you got to do that. You're like. And so you're just in some stupid cubicle, punching keys, just planning all the fun stuff you're going to do with the money that you make doing this thing you hate doing.

[Wayne Tanner]

It's pretty nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

It's pretty nuts.

[Cam Canaday]

I've never. I've never felt happy in that.

[Wayne Tanner]

That's what I'm saying.

[Cam Canaday]

But having to do something to get to somewhere.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Cam Canaday]

Sometimes you have to be unhappy.

[Joe Rogan]

That's true, too.

[Cam Canaday]

And you're the wrong person to be commenting on this because you're extreme. You're never going to be happy because you're going to continue. Continue to chase bigger and better.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, that's what I said, which is good.

[Cam Canaday]

That's awesome.

[Wayne Tanner]

I don't know. I mean, and I've mentioned this before, I'm happiest when I'm suffering.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's ridiculous.

[Wayne Tanner]

No, but, like, doesn't it feel like.

[Joe Rogan]

Adam and I, we just looked at each other? He's crazy.

[Wayne Tanner]

Because when I'm suffering, it's because I'm doing something that matters to me.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah. You like that. And you know what's on the other side, that's what makes it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you've sort of programmed yourself to be like that, too. You know, this is, like, similar to Goggins. Right. Goggins always wants people to know that he wasn't always like this, that he used to be fat and lazy. And he shows pictures of himself at £300. He always talks about it. You know, it's like. It's like, this isn't. I wasn't born like this. Like, I turned myself into this. And I think one of the reasons why you've been able to struggle so much is that you figured out a way to enjoy struggle. And a lot of people avoid struggle at all costs. They want the couch. Oh, I want to relax. It's cold out. I want to get in that cold plunge. Are you crazy? What's wrong with you?

[Cam Canaday]

You know, I love struggle because you know what's on the other side. Yeah, the growth. So it's like, once you've done that, and I think that's where a lot of people struggle. If they quit or they don't get to the other side, then you don't know the reward on it.

[Joe Rogan]

What you just said is perfect. That's why they struggle, because they don't struggle. It's like the thing you're avoiding is causing you the exact same thing. It's just you're getting a slow dose of that poison and you never get out of it. Whereas if you voluntarily struggle, then you get this beautiful feeling when it's over, but you're not doing that. So you're just getting the same amount of struggle in these weird little slow doses all day long. So you're never getting like, oh, my God, I'm in agony. I can't breathe. But if you did, then the rest of the day would be easy.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Instead you're getting, oh, my God, the world is closing in on me, and I don't know why. I'm so freaked out, and I'm riddled with anxiety. Anxiety all day long for no reason. I'm having a panic attack and there's nothing wrong. That's what's going on. Like, you're. You're getting your suffering in, like, little doses all day long, and it's driving misery crazy.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And that's why you get on SSRIs, and that's why you do this and that's why you do that. And you join a cult. And everyone's just trying to figure out a way to feel better. Everyone's just trying to figure out a way to feel better. And one of the ways to feel better is voluntary struggling. Yeah, you gotta volunteer to put yourself in stressful situations, difficult situations. Do it on purpose. If you do that, then the regular world is easier.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, it's. I think, like, I'm always, of course, biased towards hunting in the mountains, but I also think that men. Men specifically, you know, where I grew up and in the environment I grew up, hunters were respected. And if you killed a big buck, you're like, that meant something in a small town. I was.

[Joe Rogan]

Because it's very difficult to do right.

[Wayne Tanner]

And it's like, for men, respect is such an important thing. You know, it's like we always say, like, women need love, men need. If you have to choose, men, love doesn't mean shit, really. But respect does. And, like, hunting was a way to earn respect from the community. And that's why for men, like, when I. As hunters, I think that's appealing for People who don't hunt because they see that image and they're like, I'm missing that. Because they see that there's respect earned there. And that's what men, whether they want to admit it or not, that's a big driving force, even at work. And whatever job you have, you want to be respected.

[Joe Rogan]

Here's a perfect example. That story you were telling me about shooting that bull in the Oregon backcountry. And you. It's terrible place to kill a bull. And you call up that dude.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, that guy, Cal Holiday, which sounds.

[Joe Rogan]

Like a fake name.

[Wayne Tanner]

We're talking about that like a gunslinger.

[Joe Rogan]

Sounds like such a fake name. It's a perfect badass name. You call this dude and ask him to help you. Dude drove through, you told him, okay. He said, I'll see you there at 8am yeah. These guys drives through the night. He shows up, like, how many hours did it take him to get there?

[Wayne Tanner]

He had a hiker, he had four guys. So he had to round up three other guys. So he brought four of like him and three guys. And they live how far away? I mean, at least a couple hours, I think. And so they had to get together, drive a couple hours, get up on this old like, logging road essentially into the, to the access point of the wilderness, to the trailhead. Said pack in miles, right? So this is like 9 or 10 at night. They said they'd be there at 8 in the morning. So that's what it took like to get there and then miles back to this remote middle of the wilderness Hell hole area by 8:00am so, yeah, it was, it was hours and hours and hours just to get there.

[Cam Canaday]

And you can't time that the way. You can't time that.

[Joe Rogan]

But he did talk about it. Yeah, but the way you talked about him. That's what every man wants. Yeah, like that was a man.

[Cam Canaday]

Yes, but he earned it too. You know, that's. And you're talking about, you know, respect so important, but you do have to earn respect.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right, right. And that when. So in that moment. So there was me, Wayne Tanner, my son James, my camera guy, Gideon. And then he brought four guys. So we had eight guys in that moment. There's not eight other men I would rather have or seven other men besides me that I'd rather have there because those to do that, it's special. That's. Not everybody can do that shit. But those guys, that was their purpose. They could probably never be, quote, happier than in that moment. Elk meat on our back, Miles to get to the Trail head out.

[Joe Rogan]

Hundreds of pounds of meat.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. 300 pounds of meat. So we waited at the butcher. When I took the. To get processed. 300 pounds of boned out meat. That's not. Not a bone on there.

[Joe Rogan]

So not including your camp, not including everything. So your back, your body, and the head.

[Wayne Tanner]

I took the head out. So 300 pounds of meat, plus everything else that we had, but eight of us packed it out and it was a great. The greatest day I can remember probably this season. You know, I mean, it was. That. That was. That was real. That's what I say, that that's real. All this other shit, I don't know what this is, but that was real. I killed a bull. We have to get it out to take care of this meat. Here's some badass mountain men who can help me. Does it get any better?

[Cam Canaday]

No. Yeah. I think I've known you for 13 or 14 years now, and you've always been like that. I. Yeah. You've never changed in that sense. Like those things are important to you. Those things are meaningful to you. Right? It's incredible.

[Wayne Tanner]

No, it's. Thank you. But yeah, it's. It's. Yeah. I mean, that's all that matters.

[Joe Rogan]

Most people never experience that. That's what's wrong. What's wrong is most people never experience that insane, challenging experience where your character's tested, your will is tested, your commitment is tested.

[Wayne Tanner]

Just think. So the video on this hunt came out last night, and it's called the Bowhunter. But there's a moment there after we had called, after we'd got my bowl process. So at that time, it was just me, Wayne, Tanner and James, and we're just sitting there. We had our tent set up. The meat's all hanging up, middle of the night, sitting there talking. We're eating peak meals. I'm like, why are you eating peak.

[Cam Canaday]

Meals when you have elk meat there?

[Joe Rogan]

Why didn't you eat the elk?

[Wayne Tanner]

We didn't have a fire, but the meat was processed. It wasn't time to eat or like to break down the bowl. But that would have been great. Tenderloins over a fire would have been amazing. Didn't do it. But the point is, in that moment, there's no other place on earth, no other time in my life that I would rather be. That is. That was the pinnacle of life for me.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a normal, natural experience for primitive man. Yes, that's what it is. And it's how we stayed alive. And the way I describe it to people, there's A feeling. Most people have caught a fish. There's a feeling when someone catches a fish, like, even a child. When I took my daughter bass fishing, she was like six, I think she caught a bunch of bass. And the feeling that she got when she hooked it, like, oh, her eyes light up. It is built in us. It's inside of us. But catching a fish bow, hunting in the mountains, killing an animal, cooking it over a fire with your boys, is that times a thousand. Yeah, it's a crazy built in. We did what we have to do, and we're looking forward to doing it again. So that. That. The intense experience, the difficulty, all of it. You're sitting there, relax, you're eating, and you have no doubt. You can't wait to do that again. You're not like, man, I don't want to do this again. This is nuts. You're like, yeah, I'm tired. But that was awesome.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that was awesome. You take the pack off, like, dude, you're sitting there by the fire, like, holy. You're drenched in sweat, your legs are gone. Everybody's around smiling like, we fucking did it. We did it.

[Wayne Tanner]

I just don't know how. I mean, you hope the films can show that and. But gives you a peek to feel it.

[Cam Canaday]

Oh, yeah, it's.

[Wayne Tanner]

I would. I wish everybody could feel it, just so they'd know. Yeah, it'll never happen, but it's. It's so power. It's life changing.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you remember Israel Adesanya's speech after he knocked out Pereira?

[Cam Canaday]

Yes, yes.

[Wayne Tanner]

What'd he say? He.

[Joe Rogan]

He goes. I wish. He goes, people of the world, I would play it. Let's play it.

[Cam Canaday]

Because it's amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

It's amazing. So this is Alex Pereira. This is a guy that had beaten him three times.

[Wayne Tanner]

Three times. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Knocked him out in kickboxing, knocked him out in mma, and then finally he knocked him out.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And this is like. Everybody was, like, terrified of him taking this rematch. Pereira can't be stopped. Pereira is a destroyer. He's the scariest guy ever. But he asked me to. To give him the microphone. Look at that.

[Cam Canaday]

What a human.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. I love Style Bender.

[Cam Canaday]

Oh, he's the best. Holy.

[Joe Rogan]

He's the best.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Let me just hold the mic real quick. Yes, sir.

[Wayne Tanner]

Hey, sure, sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Listen up.

[Cam Canaday]

I want to say something.

[Joe Rogan]

People, Earth, I need to say something. Listen to me. I hope every one of you behind your screens on this arena can feel this level of happiness just one time in your life. I hope all of you can feel how happy I am just one time in your life.

[Wayne Tanner]

But guess what?

[Joe Rogan]

You never feel this level of happiness if you don't go for something in your own life. When they knock you down, when they drive on you, when they talk about you and they try and put their foot on your neck. If you stay down, you will never, ever get that result. Fortify your mind and feel this level of happiness as you rise one time in your life. But I'm blessed to be able to feel this again. This episode is brought to you by Monster Ultra. Everybody knows the white Monster. That clean white can zero sugar crisp. It's everywhere lately. Gyms, your favorite convenience store, studios, you name it. I see people toss it into their bag before training or a long drive. Big flavor, zero sugar. That same monster energy kick. But Ultra didn't stop there. There's a whole lineup now. Vice, Guava, Blue Hawaiian, and the new Wild Passion. My favorite is Strawberry Dreams. It's smooth and sweet with a touch of tart strawberry flavor.

[Cam Canaday]

Ooh.

[Joe Rogan]

And if you're loyal to the white can cool. Just know that you've got options. Visit monsterenergy.com to learn more.

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[Joe Rogan]

That's greatest post fight speech of all time.

[Wayne Tanner]

You know what I love too, is like, even in that moment, like there's a little bit of blood starting to trickle out of his nose. You know, I mean, because he looks, he looks really good. It does for just fighting, but it's like there's little, you know, the sweat, the blood trip trickling.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, man, he's getting hit, man. He's getting hit. And his left leg was already destroyed.

[Wayne Tanner]

He didn't take many of those.

[Joe Rogan]

No, he was talking to me about it afterwards. He's like, that got me again. I was thinking that, that before that he got my leg again. Because that was a part of the problem with the first fight. Yeah, First MMA fight. His left leg was destroyed. He couldn't move his left leg. So even though he's like bobbing me, he's like, I was okay. He goes, but I couldn't get out of there because I couldn't move my leg, man. He goes, I was getting hit, but I was still there. I was moving like he was still moving around, but he couldn't go away. Like his leg was destroyed. And that's what people don't think about when you like, especially of those goddamn calf kicks.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. He probably knew after the first one.

[Joe Rogan]

He was like, he got me again. He destroys people's legs. And then you're a sitting duck in front of the scariest puncher in the history of the division.

[Wayne Tanner]

Hands of stone.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God, he's terrifying. And for him to catch him with that perfect right hand off the cage like that, oh, my. And then shoot the arrows into him. Greatest fight celebration, greatest post fight speech of all time. Time of all time. There's not even a second place that, that really. Except Rosenama Yunus, that one time when she was saying, I'm the best. That was pretty powerful. That was pretty powerful too.

[Wayne Tanner]

Could you find that tent scene at the end of that video? So, but here's what, here's what I was curious about is. Oh, he did find it. Yeah. Like right here. So the difference between Israel's happiness and this happiness. I'll do anything you want to do.

[Joe Rogan]

But, you know, you go until you're just sick of the weight and you get it under the tree in the shade.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. And you get all kind of energized.

[Joe Rogan]

Come back, drink some water, grab another. And then mentally, you're not coming back to here.

[Cam Canaday]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, you get it all across the creek in that flat. I mean, it doesn't get any more in the bottom.

[Wayne Tanner]

That was a pack out. But I wouldn't want it any other way. Wayne, he had a horse packer set up up. And then I, I had also talked to Cal Halliday, and when I was in there by myself on an opening weekend, he said, hey, if you kill a bull in here by yourself, he goes, let me Know, send me a text or something. I'll have, you know, four or five guys here within five hours to help pack. So, no, it wasn't opening weekend. But I'm like, I told Wayne that, and I said, he goes, well, who do you want to. Who do you want to get a hold of? You want to get a hold of cow or you want to get hold of the horse? Pack.

[Cam Canaday]

Packer.

[Wayne Tanner]

And I'm like, I think I'd rather have Cal with some other badass, you know, mountain guys and just share this pack out with them.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. But so if we go less of a jungle, too.

[Wayne Tanner]

So these guys right here, brother, you don't want any other people. And Tanner's got so much weight on true form. Cal. They got up, I don't know what time, three in the morning, made it all the way there. They said they'd be there at 8am they were down at my bullet 801. And I don't. I mean, this is miles and miles and miles. Just, you know, just studs.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

And so, yeah, it's like, I'll never forget that. I'll never forget the whole. Obviously the whole hunt. But that morning was a special one. Cal, Eric, Keith, and Ryan, Massive.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

So thankful for them.

[Joe Rogan]

They. That bull is massive.

[Wayne Tanner]

So it's like, here's it. But that's a juxtaposition is to me, that was my Israel Adesanya moment about, I will never be happier. But look how different those moments are. One's in front of a huge crowd, millions of people watching, being, you know, getting all that attention from all those people, and then I guarantee just as happy or happier right there. Isn't that crazy?

[Joe Rogan]

It is crazy.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah. That's your thing, and you'll find your thing.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

I always talk about that like people just trying to find what's your thing. Yeah, my thing's the outdoors and bowing.

[Wayne Tanner]

So Israel's thing is fighting. So for. For him, that's the pinnacle. For us, whatever your thing is, get to the pinnacle. Right? That's a lesson.

[Joe Rogan]

Find. Find happiness in that. Do you think whatever it is, whatever.

[Cam Canaday]

It is for you, that you talking about your daughter catching that fish? And it's like this primal instinct inside of her that just flares up that fighters have that same feeling. Like, it's a primal feeling.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, 100. Yeah. It's a little more conflicted, Doug, depending upon how bad you hurt your opponent, when you hurt them really bad. It's very. It's a very conflicting moment because, you know, that could have been you. Some guys don't get that feeling. Some guys, they. They're like, good, him. But a lot of guys, it's like, there's some guys that knock a guy out real bad and then they almost want to retire afterwards. They're just like, I don't want to do that to anybody anymore. You know, Especially guys that have killed guys like Ray Mancini when he killed Ducku Kim. I don't think he was ever the same again. There's a few guys like that in history that have had boxing matches where they killed a guy and then they were kind of never the same after that.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, that's some scary.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, because you realize, like, this is what. This is what you're doing.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, this. This could lead to that happening to you, and you think about your kids watching on TV and crying or even worse there while you're getting beat up. I always freak out when guys bring their kids. I'm like, oh, man. Bringing a kid to a fight, great. You know?

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I've seen guys get knocked out in front of their kids, and it's particularly devastating. Particularly devastating. Especially when you really like the guy. It's rough. It's a rough way to make a living. But those guys, when they get that belt strapped around them, when their hands get raised and the whole audience screams and cheers, it's like, that's a special moment. That's a special moment that very few people ever get to experience unless they.

[Wayne Tanner]

Kill a bull in the wilderness.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't even know if it's the same. They're all.

[Cam Canaday]

They're all.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a different current kind of happiness, I think yours is more sustained, yours lasts longer.

[Wayne Tanner]

That's what I say. It's like, I don't know, like, Israel said he was happy. Is that. I guess that's what it is.

[Joe Rogan]

But you know what the reality is? After the happiness dies off for a couple of days, then you start thinking about your next fight and you immediately start getting that anxiety.

[Cam Canaday]

I think that's a good drive in life, though, right? Because you don't just do that elk hunt and be like, I'm done now.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right.

[Cam Canaday]

You know, it's like, not, what's the next one? You know, and it's like that constant pursuit.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's also like constantly recognizing that you're always going to be at least trying to get better.

[Cam Canaday]

You're.

[Joe Rogan]

That's. You're always trying to get better. Anything that is going to give you, like, real happiness is going to be very difficult because you're not really going to ever be able to master it, whatever it is. It's like that, that's where it is the real it's. It's in the pursuit of it. And along the way, recognizing that, you consistently keep getting better. But it's like a. There's a dream that you're chasing that you're never going to get to. You're never going to get to. Bow hunting perfection. It doesn't exist.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

You can get really close. You've gotten really, really close. But we're human and it's the wild and there's all sorts of weird variables that happen. There's branches and sticks and wind and this and that. And it's impossible to be perfect.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And that's part of the magic of it. Yeah. Part of the magic of it is that that when you're in the moment and it's all happening, it's all so open ended, like any result can take place. You really do not know how this is all going to go down. You haven't seen it all play out and you might imagine how it's going to play out, but it's going to play out in unique situations. Some of them will be similar, some of them will be completely different.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And you've got to figure it out. Like you were telling me that crazy story that I was talking to you about, the podcast where you're shooting down at this bull, like from like a cliff, like straight down.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. San Carlos this year it was. So I arranged the bull. It was a huge cliff. And what I thought is I'd get up there and I'd be able to see the flat and there was some bulls down there. It's a tough year in, in Arizona, the drought. But from that cliff, I thought that'd be a great vantage point to see where these bulls were in. Plant a stock. So get way up there. Actually there's sheep right above us too. It's like crazy rugged country. But get up there on that cliff and I'm look kind of looking out over the expanse there and then I look straight down below me there's this big bull and like straight down and I'm like, it's like if you're hunting mule deer, you know, they always bed up against the cliffs because so their back's protected, the wind's coming up, they can monitor the down below them with their nose. They know nothing's coming from the back. That's how mule deer bed to survive. Well, this bull had done that same thing and it was. It had just stood up from the base of the cliff and I looked down. I range at 42 yards, which people who know if it's the range finder is telling you to shoot for 42. That means straight down. That means it's probably close to 60 yards, you know, because the range. The rangefinder does a calculation. If you shoot flat, that's the gravity affects one thing. If you shoot straight down, gravity has less effect. So it's saying even though it's further, you would shoot for less distance is how that works. So it told me to shoot for 42. That means it's at probably 60 straight down. And that's a long shot with it with a bow. And then I had to. Shooting straight down. I had to. I thought that I was like going to go straight through his spine because I was straight above him. I'm like, well, I'm going to come right behind the shoulders, straight through his spine into his vitals. I thought that should do it. So I shoot. I hit that bull like about, I would say an inch off the spine. I show it. There's a video of it on that, the video we just watched for people who are interested, but about an inch off that spine into his chest. And the bull went about 100 yards. But, yeah, it was. I've never. I've never done a shot like that before in my life. You know, you think about different scenarios. I'd never even thought about one like that on a bowel at that distance, at that angle.

[Joe Rogan]

So that is even. So where.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, it's. It's back. This is the. That's the Winaha bull, but it's back. Jamie, about. I was talking about getting ready for this hunt, and it shows like a few clips of the bull I killed in Colorado, then the Arizona bull. Then I did another hunt in Utah and I killed a bull there to get prepared for. For the. The Oregon hunt. But, yeah, it was just. I'd never even really thought that that shot would be a potential one.

[Joe Rogan]

The Oregon hunt is crazy because of the wilderness is so, so dense. Yes, Oregon is nuts.

[Cam Canaday]

Forest hunt.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a. It's like a rainforest.

[Wayne Tanner]

It's like Jurassic Park. And that's in eastern Oregon. That's the dry part of the state.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Wayne Tanner]

But it's such. Such a hole there. So much moisture down there that it turned into like Jurassic park with that bull coming in bugling. It was like a dinosaur.

[Joe Rogan]

There's nothing that matches that. That aspect of elk hunting makes it so much cooler.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Is the sound they make when they're coming in, because it's just like all of your. Your pores pop up.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like you get goosebumps all over your body. You back your neck, the hair stands up. It's like the scream is like, whoa. Right? It's so. It is my favorite sound. It's amazing.

[Cam Canaday]

They're incredible.

[Joe Rogan]

When you hear. When you're close and there's an elk screaming through the woods and he's coming close towards you, that.

[Wayne Tanner]

That.

[Joe Rogan]

The thrill of that is like nothing else. Like nothing else.

[Wayne Tanner]

No. And people who haven't heard it, they hear that, and they're like, what the. Is that?

[Cam Canaday]

Right?

[Wayne Tanner]

It's. It's weird that there's an animal on this planet that makes that noise. If. If we hadn't done this our whole lives and we heard, that would be like, what is going on?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. If you had done what Adam did in Japan and not research, like, what.

[Wayne Tanner]

What.

[Joe Rogan]

What kind of animals are in the area and you were camping out and you heard that scream, you'd be like, oh, my God, we're surrounded by demons now.

[Cam Canaday]

I've had people tell me stories like, there's something really weird in the woods there.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

And then. But you find out it's like fellow deer or red deer living in there, and it's like just. They're weird, and they're just roaring, and just people like, what the is that? Oh, it's like. Actually, it's just a deer stag.

[Joe Rogan]

Have the craziest roar. It's such a weird.

[Cam Canaday]

Actually make a real sound compared to a. Yeah, yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

Well, like an African lion. Because I heard those when I was hunting over there. Like, they're by the river, and so we're like an African lion in the middle of the night. They're.

[Cam Canaday]

Oh, yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

Like, oh, my God. It just, like, reverberates through the. Whatever. We were jungles.

[Joe Rogan]

If there's anything that lights up your DNA, the sound of a lion must just chill yourself.

[Wayne Tanner]

Nothing like that either. Nothing like that either. But, you know, here's one. Here's an exciting thing so for people listening that maybe didn't grow up hunting. What? We were talking about this in the green, Green room last night when we're getting high off all the smoke.

[Cam Canaday]

But we weren't smoking. But.

[Wayne Tanner]

But we got high. It's. What's crazy is nowadays, you know, we're 58, you're 45. Right. But we're just getting even better physically. So you say you can't master Bow hunting. Right. Because you only had a certain window. Like normally how hunting works is you're young and strong, all the endurance in the world, but you don't know shit.

[Cam Canaday]

Right.

[Wayne Tanner]

You don't have the experience. So by the time you get the experience and you're old and broke down, you can't take advantage of the experience. So you have to have wisdom. The wisdom you gained when you're young, you utilize when you're old to kill. Well, now we can gain all that experience and wisdom. Like I've been, I've been, you know, hunting for 40 some years and I'm also at the best I've ever been physically. You marry those two up, look out.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what's nuts is that didn't exist before.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right. So like we go to ways to wealth today and get stem cell and get, you know, the IV treatments and get everything else to be able to operate at our absolute prime at 58 years old with 40 years of experience. Yeah, that's, that's tough. That's. You're going to have success if you do it right. So, yeah, not everybody's going to be in that situation where they grew up hunting like me. But you even think about jelly roll at 41 years old. So he just started bow hunting. You started bow hunting in your 40s and now, now you've been doing it for, you know, 15 years and you're getting better. So there's, there's hope for even people 40, 50 or whatever. With this new science and treatment and supplements and things like that, you can still be very active and still take on new intense endeavors like bow hunting or hunting, just hunting in general, and have success and it might change your entire life. Like Jelly Roll is a different person.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

In two years he's a different person, a different human. That should be exciting for people listening.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, they should learn that you could do it too. And it's that and having more energy. Like say if you're not into bow hunting, you say if you're not, you know, like, I don't want to be a marathon runner. Whatever, whatever it is, if your body is healthier, whatever the thing you do.

[Wayne Tanner]

You'Re gonna be better.

[Joe Rogan]

More energy, you're gonna be better.

[Wayne Tanner]

Well, you could be better at it better.

[Joe Rogan]

You're gonna be better at it. You're gonna have like. Why do people like cognitively decline when they get older? Well, a big part of is you're declining overall. Everything's declining. Everything about you is declining. Of course your brain is declining as well, like your is fading. But the more you can have energy, the more you have vitality. The more you can do what? I don't care if you play chess, whatever the fuck it is that you like to do, paint, whatever it is you like to do, the more energy you have, the more energy you'll be able to apply to that thing you do.

[Cam Canaday]

The more enjoyable it is, the better quality of life, the happier you are.

[Joe Rogan]

Including all the other stuff. You know, just being with your family, you'll have more energy to do stuff. Stuff you'll be more. You'll have more life. You'll have more life energy.

[Wayne Tanner]

Here's one mindset I've tried to take on, especially with hunting, because that's all I really care about, is improving and learning on every time. And I could even think about, like I was telling somebody, I don't know who, but on every. I try to learn something on every stock. And when I think about when you killed the sable the other day. So we're there, and you have to weigh out so many things on a stock when you're getting ready to kill an animal or potentially kill an animal. But we're thinking about, okay, we have the wind. The wind is. That's the biggest thing with bow hunting. So I knew where the wind was. But then also it's like, well, do we go stay in the shade so the sun wouldn't blind you as it was going down? But if we stay in the shade, we're not perfectly downwind. So I'm like, well, the sun's gonna set, the winds change. Cause thermals change. If we're to the side in the shade so you don't have to deal with the sun, then when that wind becomes unstable, it's more likely to smell us. So we should be all the way downwind. But that means we're gonna have to shoot before the sun gets too low to where it's not blinding you to get to the side. Then you have to figure out what's the path to get there to where we're not making noise for the animal to hear. Well, it's straight to the. I don't know if you remember that tree. And I said, head straight to that tree. And from that tree, then I was thinking you should have a lane because there was brush all around. But it looked to me like from that tree, you would have a lane to shoot at 28 yards. But you're still factoring all these. The wind, the sun, everything else. What's the animal going to do? It's just so fascinating to think about. But I know some people hunt, and I don't think they think about it in those details. You know what I mean? They're just kind of like, oh, there's an animal. What do I do? But like, that's not how you master the moment. You master the moment by. And I said this a lot of times, too. On many of these hunts, I was telling jelly Roll this. I was like, everything matters. Everything. The little thing matters. The big things obviously matter, but everything matters. And that's what hunting teaches us. And in life, you can make it through regular life on this fake world that I keep talking about by ignoring a lot of things. Not on a hunt.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, we had to think about a lot of things on that stalk.

[Wayne Tanner]

On a hunt, everything matters.

[Joe Rogan]

And one of the big ones that we had to think about was as the that sun was dropping. So we were standing there waiting for this sable to get up. It had bedded and it didn't know we were there. And we creeped into the spot we were slowly got.

[Wayne Tanner]

Do you remember and do. So do you remember that tactic?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

Remember what I said?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

If you move slow enough, they won't pick it up, right.

[Joe Rogan]

Because they look for movement. So we were loop. We were moving like, you know, like an inch every 30 seconds. We were like, barely moving.

[Wayne Tanner]

Because what I've found is animal. I've been in the wide open on a caribou. Went right at it, but so slow. It was just like that can't be anything. Nothing does that.

[Cam Canaday]

No sideways movement.

[Joe Rogan]

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[Wayne Tanner]

I just want to entertain people and make a living. From Focus Features. They had a dream.

[Joe Rogan]

I want to sing.

[Cam Canaday]

I want to dance.

[Joe Rogan]

I want to garden. I want a cat.

[Wayne Tanner]

All they needed was each other. Other. We used to call ourselves Lightning and Thunder. A Neil diamond experience. This Christmas based on a true story.

[Joe Rogan]

You've ever had a shop, pal.

[Wayne Tanner]

This is it. Hugh Jackman. Kate Hudson.

[Cam Canaday]

It's good.

[Wayne Tanner]

So good.

[Joe Rogan]

Song. Sung blue.

[Wayne Tanner]

Rated PG13. May be inappropriate for children under 13. Only in theaters this Christmas. No. And just. But steady and slow and they just won't spook.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And we had to figure out where to stand. And then when we got where we were, as we were standing there, we were standing there for quite a while. I realized, oh, this sun is going to be impossible because it's slowly lowering in the sky and it's literally above this sable's head now. And I'm like, okay, we don't get this thing to stand up, I'm not going to be able to see it because I had my hat on. Right. So I blocked myself from the hat. And then I was trying to train my eyes to just look at it it through, you know, just like the haze of the sun. I was like, this is going to be a real problem. So we decided, let's get him to stand up. So Cam took his arrow out of his quiver and started tapping on this branch and then started, like, moving towards it. And sable are beasts, bro.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

First of all, those, they. They kill lions occasionally. Like, they get attacked and they're. They're fierce. Like, they're not. So it wasn't exactly easy to spook.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

So you had to kind of like move towards a little bit. And then it started grunting at you, like, off, off. And then finally it stood up. And when it stood up, we got him.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But it was, you know, it was a shot where I was like, I gotta do this real soon because otherwise I'm not gonna be able to see. Yeah, fortunately, I could. And I can get the pin right where it needed to be. But it was like I was. And I. I was telling you afterwards, I was like, I avoid shooting into the sun. Yeah. Yeah. When I have my targets, I always put a target in the other way, so. And I'm like, I can't do that anymore. Now I have to start shooting into the sun sometimes practice it all. You got to get that feeling. Because that had happened also on a hunt with Tom Land, we were up in Utah, and this bull was a nice bull. It was about 60 yards, and it was coming across this ridge. The sun was right in my eyes, and he's like, why didn't you shoot? I was like, I. I just couldn't. It was too. Too blurry. It was too. The sun was right there. And I remember thinking that at that time, this was years ago, thinking at that time, I need to shoot into the sun. And I never did. Yeah, come up. I just won't take the shot. I'll do what I did, then I won't take the shot.

[Cam Canaday]

And if you're not comfortable, you don't.

[Joe Rogan]

Have to take the shot in this situation. I was like, I know it's not a long shot. It's only 28 yards, and it's a big animal, and I'm pretty confident I got this. I was like. Like, I gotta factor all these things in and then not let doubt creep into my head. You know, stay totally calm. So there's all these things going on simultaneously.

[Wayne Tanner]

It's a lot. It's a lot to manage.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a lot.

[Wayne Tanner]

But it. But also a lot to. A lot of factors to consider and then learn from.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, I learned a lot from that hunt. I learned a lot. First of all, I learned how tough sable are. Daz is the same experience, like I told you I had with Neil guy, that I shot that Neil guy in South Texas. And it ran like I didn't even hit it. I hit it. Perfect. Perfect. The arrow went right through him. It was the arrow. We found the arrow 30 yards past where I hit. It was covered in blood, so we knew he was dead. But he ran like he never even got hit. He ran full speed like a cheetah. It was crazy. And the. The guide I was with is like, yeah, man. They grew up around tigers. Like, these things evolved around tigers. Like, they don't just take getting hit and go, oh, no, I'm in trouble. They run. They're so tough stuff, and they barely bleed. That's the other thing about these. These animals that grow up around big predators, boy, they clog up their holes really quick. They don't leave much of a blood trail. It's not like an elk or a deer. It's different.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. I think Adam Addicts explains this. Well, sometimes you talk about when you hit them, if they're stretched out. Then when they're not stretched out, you know, it's like, it just changes that. That the entrance wound and the exit wound, if there is one, one, it just changes. There's different layers of muscle and hide over it where it just blocks up that blood.

[Joe Rogan]

It. See, it seems like they clog up quicker, too. Just period. Like, whatever their anatomy is, the difference is when you hit them, they don't. They just don't bleed much.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah. I got a buddy that always, you know, someone's like, it was the perfect shot. And it's like, well, actually it wasn't, because it'd be dead already. So it's like. And I know what you're saying, but the truth is double lungs is double lungs, lungs. And there's so many variations like that reaction, they close up the gap or what broader do you use? And if the animal's breathing out when the arrow shoots it through the lungs, or whether it's just taking a bunch of oxygen in, you know, there's a larger target. Yeah. And there's all those different. Plus just more energy to run on.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Cam Canaday]

And then, you know, you'll see certain hunters that shoot something that's not even dead yet. And they're like, yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

And start.

[Cam Canaday]

Yahoo. And it's like, what? Shut the upper up. Because that brings on an adrenaline rush. Animals can run further, whereas you just want a nice, relaxed setup. You know, it's just a hit. They don't know what's going on. The beauty of the bow, because it's so quiet. There's not a loud gunshot behind it or anything. And then, you know, just so they're relaxed, they don't want to run as fast. They want to give up earlier because they've got nothing to spook from or fight from. So, you know.

[Joe Rogan]

And they don't know what happened.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, sometimes they think they got jabbed by another bull or something. Like, what happened?

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Everything's crazy. They're all rutting and screaming at each other and clashing antlers. Then all of a sudden, whack. Like, what the. Is that right?

[Cam Canaday]

Utah? This year, the bull that I shot, he'd just been in the fight with another bull, so he was all revved up from that other bull. So I literally hit him, and he just. He thought he got poked by an antler from another bull, you know, and he went 20 yards, was standing for 14 seconds. Drop dead. Nice, beautiful, peaceful. Right in front of me. They don't all happen like that, but that's what we're after.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what you're after. That's why you practice. That's why you shoot so many arrows. Arrows. To have it drop right in front of you is the greatest thing ever.

[Wayne Tanner]

And I think that does impact the taste of the meat, too. If you don't have them shoot that adrenaline back through their body where it's a peaceful death, I think it does impact the taste.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what they say.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, don't they do that with. When they want to call animals like. Like. Or if they want to shoot animals. Rather not call them. Shoot them for commercial purposes. They shoot them in the head, right?

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, they put a bolt in their head. But yeah, I mean.

[Joe Rogan]

But no, I mean, like. Like in. When they shoot, like, axis deer. Yeah, they shoot them in the head.

[Wayne Tanner]

Definitely. No, but like, even like, when they kill cattle, they're not getting those things wound.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Of course. Of course. You want them to be as calm as possible. The opposite of what that mountain lion did to that cow. Imagine eating that. Imagine you ate that cow. That it would be like, y' all got anxiety. He's probably in the meat itself.

[Cam Canaday]

I got issues taking it back to the health journey. How you were saying, like, you know, where we are now with, you know, modern treatments and wellness is. Is incredible. Like, I feel like my. I feel like my body's the best it's ever been, you know, and I'm obviously the oldest I've ever been, which is crazy to think of. Like, how can. How can I feel better than I do? How can I feel better now than I did in my early 20s? You know, we've probably had any injuries and stuff like that, so it's quite. And I've got you to thank for that by introducing me to Brigham and Ways the world, so.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my pleasure. I want more people to know about it. I want everybody to be healthy. It's possible.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You can get healthier. Like, look at jelly roll. The guy was 500 plus pounds, and now he's running.

[Cam Canaday]

Now that's such an incredible story.

[Joe Rogan]

10K the day before he came to the studio, and then when we went to the gym together and he ran 2.6 miles on the treadmill while he was talking. We're laughing, he's joking around. They don't know me, son. He's having a good old time. And, you know, he just seems so happy. We got in the sauna together. We're laughing. It's like he's just a different guy. He's Got so much. And he's, he's so in, he's so excited about this journey that he's on this journey of self improvement, this journey of health. You know, he's going to be there for his kids, he's going to be there for his wife. Now he's worried about dying before. You know, he told a story about like laying on his arm and he couldn't get up. He was trapped and he didn't have. In bed, in bed, he couldn't get up. He couldn't, couldn't. And he thought he was gonna die. He's like, I'm so big that I'm laid on my arm and I don't have the strength to get out of this position because I'm so big.

[Cam Canaday]

What a change.

[Joe Rogan]

And now he's running and bow hunting.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, he's substance now. Like, that's like that substance will just keep him going, you know, to find those things and what makes him happy.

[Joe Rogan]

And, you know, the problem is a lot of people oftentimes compare themselves to other people that are already on that path. This is another thing that we talked about. You just get on the path. Don't worry about how people are ahead of you. Just you be ahead of yourself. Next week you're ahead of where you were this week. The week after that, you'll be ahead of you. It's just a path. Just get so, so what if other people have been on the path further than you? Like, that's how you get better at stuff. And that, that is what's exciting about life, is this path of improvement. And whatever you do and actually being a human, being, being. Be a better human, you can do that. Everybody can get on that path.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, yeah. It's just, that's what I told Joey is, you know, you can wander around off the path for your whole life and never really have, like, I never, never really figured it out. But once you make it, like, like where he's on, you know, being healthy, eating better, exercising, he, you know, the mountains have given him. I always say the mountains heal or nature heals. So he's there now. It's like, yeah, of course there's people who are way ahead because they've been on it longer. There's people who are not quite on it. Maybe they're going to be faster than him and they pass him. But all on the right path, head in the right direction. That's a beautiful place to be. And that's where he's at.

[Joe Rogan]

It is. And one of the things that I said to Jelly when we're on the podcast, I was like, what you're doing is inspiring millions of people to live a better life. 100%. What you're doing is so beneficial to human beings all over the world, because now millions of people have seen that podcast. Millions of people have heard that story. Millions of people have seen those clips that have been shared all throughout social media. And how many people got excited by that? And it gave them fuel and energy to want to go do something. It gave them that inspiration that we all desperately crave to want to go out and take those first fucking steps. And then once you do that, then you're operating on momentum and it's so much easier. This is another thing that people have to understand. The first steps are the hardest. It's so hard to move. It's so hard to get going. But once you get going, then you operate on momentum. Once you have a good day, then you go, I did it. I had a good day. Let's do it again tomorrow. And then you get excited about it and you look forward to waking up. And then you get through it that day. Like, we did it again. And now I'm looking forward to now I'm eating healthier now I cut off the sugar, and now I'm drinking water with electrolytes. And now I'm feeling better. I have more energy and just keep going. Yeah, just keep going. And momentum is so much easier than that first step. The first step of changing your life is so hard because we're just so afraid of pain. We're so afraid of suffering. We're so afraid of, like, just the discomfort. We've been programmed to think that discomfort is a bad thing.

[Wayne Tanner]

It's not.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's not. It's necessary.

[Wayne Tanner]

I think that Joey Roll might. I mean, I think we've talked about this, but could he impact more people than anyone ever has in that regard?

[Cam Canaday]

100 we were talking about that today.

[Wayne Tanner]

100 because it's like, it's not like, you know, even Israel or your favorite NFL guy or NBA, they're. They're elite. Right. So when they succeed, you're like, nah, fuck. Of course, you know, he's 6, 8, 2, 60. Of course he's going to be great. But when you see somebody like Jelly Roll who came from £540, that's like he's already at the furthest end of, like, you know, like, what you'd have to overcome.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Wayne Tanner]

And for him to do that, anybody else is closer to the. To the goal than he's he was at that time. So it's like, nobody's in worse shape.

[Joe Rogan]

Really morbidly obese.

[Wayne Tanner]

You can't be in worse shape. And if he's doing it, everyone can do it. Everyone who has something inside him. And maybe he's going to give them that something 100%.

[Joe Rogan]

And he's way more famous than anybody who's ever done this before. That's the most important aspect of it. He's loved by so many people. So how many Jelly Roll fans loved him because he was like them. He was big like them. Super talented, amazing guy who was also big. Like, oh my God, I thought I was a big slob and no one's gonna love me. Meanwhile, everybody loves jelly roll. So they love jelly and then also jelly rolls changes his life. Like, how many people are sitting there watching him and listening to him going, I think I could do it. He did it. I think I can do it.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And you just do it the way he, you know, like he didn't start out running marathons. He tried to go for a walk.

[Wayne Tanner]

Walk? Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, I mean, he would call.

[Wayne Tanner]

His walk his run because he couldn't run, right. But he'd say, tell his family, his wife and that he's gonna go out on his run. There's not one step of running, but the, the mindset, the story he told himself was he was running. So it's that self talk, you know, how we talk to ourselves is important. So he would tell himself, I'm gonna go run. Even though there's no, not a step of running involved. But that led to running. That mindset, that, that approach of like, I'm winning today, I'm winning. It's not a run, it's a walk, but it's going to be a run.

[Cam Canaday]

You know, that's got to be a massive mental achievement for him too, because I'm sure that he had a lot of mind weight to lose as well. Because jail. He was in jail, right? Substance abuse, no doubt. Probably a lot of like, that's a lot of negative stuff in someone's head, head. So to lose that as well. And you told me that he's such a positive person. So to like, you know, he lost a bunch of weight, which is incredible, but what he's done to his mind, which we may never know, is really incredible too. Like, like, that's why I was saying to you this morning, this might be one of the best modern day stories of a person changing their life. When you look at Jelly.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it couldn't be a better representative of someone who has gone through the struggle and then come out this amazing person. Like, he's an amazing guy. Like, there's very few humans that are so kind and friendly and warm. And when he hugs you, he hugs you with his soul. Like he hugs you with his whole body and his soul. He's like a perfect person to be the inspiration for people to improve their lives.

[Wayne Tanner]

Life. Well, and that was so touching. Like when you shared the Grand Old Opry. Yeah. Inclusion for Jelly Roll from Craig Morgan. And he said, joe, can I get a hug? I mean, two. Two men. And that to me, that was like so endearing, but also so important to show that it's okay for men to say, yeah, yeah, can I get a hug?

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, it was a man crying. It was one of the most inspirational things you could ever watch.

[Wayne Tanner]

I mean, but it takes a certain type or it's one of one who does stuff like that. Like him. His heart. That's what I say. He's a big man, but he's got the biggest heart of anybody I've ever met. And that was an example of it. Like, he just wanted love.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. He's a very important figure. Figure in our culture. It really is. It really is. You know, especially now me always was. His music just alone is important because it's beautiful music, but the beautiful music is the expression of a beautiful soul, you know? And now he's also on this path of self improvement. And it's amazing.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. That title of his album, beautifully broken.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

I mean, it's so perfect.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it is.

[Wayne Tanner]

And he's. He's. He was broken. Probably will always be broken. In some ways, we all are. But he's putting himself back together and man, he's.

[Joe Rogan]

Are we all broken or do we all have negative thoughts from the past?

[Wayne Tanner]

Are we telling ourselves we're broken? Yeah, maybe that's it. Maybe that's our self talk.

[Joe Rogan]

Obviously we're functional, so we're not broken. You know, it's not that we're broken.

[Wayne Tanner]

It's just a doubt. The self doubt.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, everyone's gonna. You're gonna.

[Cam Canaday]

You're.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like you're a human being. The only way you figure out how to get good at something is you have to. It has to be a puzzle. Puzzles include doubt it.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's always going to be there. There's no getting around it.

[Cam Canaday]

No, it's not.

[Joe Rogan]

It's.

[Cam Canaday]

But it's part. It ends up being the beauty of it. Right? Yes. That's it.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the beauty of it. And, and then whatever you do doesn't. You don't have to bow hunt. It's like you probably should, but you don't have to. Yeah, it could be anything else, but.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, just any struggle in life, you know, that's how I look at anything like that. That's testing or trialing or.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's be. It should be interesting for you too. It should be an interesting thing. That's. The people also have this weird habit of looking at the mind in terms of only being valuable in human created endeavors. Like the mind only being valuable in mathematics, the mind only being valuable in your ability to recite literature and your, your, Your knowledge that you've gained through schooling. Like. No, no, the mind, the mind manages stressful situations too. That's an important aspect of intelligence, is your intelligence in being able to navigate difficult things. That is all your mind. You're using your mind like bow hunting has so much, so much, so many elements of intelligence that are woven into it. And the difference between a successful person who bow hunts and an unsuccessful person is experience and practice, but also the mind being able to learn from each individual situation and experience and get better and accumulate all this knowledge over time. You know, it's got a deep, deep learning curve. It's very deep. And the people that don't experience it and then have this classification in their head of what, what intelligence is. Intelligence means. You got a PhD. I know a lot of people with PhD that are fools. They're fools. They're emotional children. They're filled with ego and resentment and they're shitty and nasty to people. They're fools. So they're not smart. They're just. They have a functional mind. They've applied to human endeavors only. And they've never done the big thing thing. Never done the whole package. Never put it all together.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. And I think, I think another key to being intelligent. I don't know if it's the key, but having kids I think is a big part of growth. And to me it's like I lump like intelligence, just life experience into the package we'd call intelligence. But like hunting teaches us that, of course, but. But also raising kids and being responsible for a family. Oh yeah, I think that's another. It's like, yeah, school doesn't teach you that shit. And like the, the, the degree you got doesn't. Doesn't signify that. But I don't know, I think that's a big part of it too.

[Joe Rogan]

It's It's a giant learning experience, that's for damn sure. And it also teaches you way more compassion. It just teaches you to be way more loving and kind of. And. And he also just.

[Wayne Tanner]

You.

[Joe Rogan]

You understand from watching a baby become an amazing adult human being, you get to understand all the elements that are involved in this child's development and all the trials and tribulations. How you gotta, like, let them fall sometimes.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And then help them pick themselves back up and talk to them through it. And when they're down, explain. Like, I've been down too. I'm always done. I've fucked up everything. I was. Whenever my kids would do anything wrong, one of the things I'd always tell say to them, if I was upset at them, I said, listen, I did everything that you did. I've done all this stuff. It's okay. But you can't do it. And this is why. Yeah, like, I've. I've screwed up everything. I've. I've done things I shouldn't have done. I. I'm doing exactly what you're doing right now. I've done it even worse. You're a better kid than I was. Yeah, I always say that. So they don't think that, like, I'm without fault. I always say I've done it all, but I got through it on the other side. Now I'm your dad. And the reason why I'm telling you this is because I love you. And I'm not telling. I'm not. I'm not trying to, like, be upset at you because I'm mean, like, I'm trying to help you live a better life. And that's how I try to communicate with him about it.

[Wayne Tanner]

So in. In my head, that perspective opens up other lanes of intelligence. That's. That's what I'm saying. It's like you have. You can't be the. Your highest form without that right.

[Joe Rogan]

You're challenged. You're challenged.

[Wayne Tanner]

That's what it feels like.

[Joe Rogan]

And you're also challenged by the discipline of it. You know, you have people that rely on you, and that is. You can't fuck that off. You can't just, like, not show up for work. You can't just. You know, I just feel like sleeping in today and fucking. I'm taking a month off. Like, you can't do that. You have people that rely on you. And also you're setting an example for them that they're going to learn from the people that. And your kids are a great example of that. The children of people that are very disciplined almost always have a higher threshold of discipline. I notice it. I see it in your kids. For sure, I see it in my kids. They have more of an understanding of what's necessary in order to get things done and to be successful. Now, if you're a person who's a parent and you shirk every responsibility, you lie, you steal, you do things you're not supposed, you take shortcuts, you're not truthful, you're. Whatever you're doing where your kids get to see, like, oh, my parent is a kind of a fuckhead. You know, My parent is kind of. One of two things happens. Either you emulate your parents and you be kind of a fuckhead, or you go, I don't like that. And I'm never gonna be like that. Like, some of my friends that grew up with alcoholic parents, they've never had a drink in their fucking life and they never will. They're like, I am never touching that shit. I see what that's like because I saw my dad. Dad lose his job, lose his house, lose this, lose that, get arrested for dwi, get in a bar fight. My dad's a loser and I'm not going to be that guy. So. But it's. It's a toss up.

[Wayne Tanner]

Or some might emulate that.

[Joe Rogan]

Some might emulate it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, some. You see your dad's a drug addict. Like, let me try it.

[Cam Canaday]

I grew up like that with a couple of closer friends. And these closer friends were like, I'm never going to be like my dad. Like, we'll. We'll. To the core, we'll like that. We're never going to be like our fathers. And. And that's one of the reasons I don't drink, because my father was a horrible alcoholic. And even though when I drink, I'm happy, I. I'm just turned off it, so I don't want to do it. And I guess I've gone long enough now that it doesn't interest me. And then I had another friend that I cut off because he turned out to be exactly like his dad. And even though he. The whole time he was like me, I'm never going to be like my father. I'm going to be the opposite. For some reason. Some people don't just go down the same path.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it's also the stress of life. It's. Sometimes it's overwhelming. You know, this. This thing that we look forward to in bow hunting, this like, not knowing what's going to happen. Like you, you get out there, it's early in the morning, you put your pack on, you know what's going to happen today? Who knows? Some people hate that feeling, right. They hate that feeling of not knowing what's going to happen. And the uncertainty about your career and job is a weird uncertainty. It depends on so many factors that are sometimes out of your control. And people just, just, they get overwhelmed and they just want to escape. They just want to escape. And maybe they're doing a job they don't enjoy doing and then the only time they feel good is when they're drunk. So they just get, get off work and they can't wait to meet their boys and have a laugh. And next thing you know, you're drinking and one day turns into a month.

[Wayne Tanner]

And that's your, it's just, that's distraction. They want to be distracted off their life or whatever.

[Joe Rogan]

And this world will give you a lot of distractions. You could play video games and get hammered. Hammered and do heroin. Yeah. Whatever it is, fill in the blank, man. You could find a lot of stuff that's not going to be beneficial for you.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. It's one thing that I, I think the. Well sub drinking and whatever, but I think the biggest negative thing a parent can offer their kids is blaming other. Like all. It's always somebody else's fault.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Wayne Tanner]

So it's like this discussion at the house, you know, because kids hear everything, right. So when the dad's coming home and he's bitching about his boss or the guy at work or he's getting over for this, or I could do that too, but that guy kissed ass. That's why he got that. Or the must be nice whatever. Like these excuse makers. Oh, you're just sabotaging your kids. It's just that you never get anywhere by blaming other people for where you're at. And so many people do that because they won't accept personal responsibility for their actions or for their place in life.

[Joe Rogan]

And I don't even think necessarily it's their fault. I think a lot of them have never seen an example of an extraordinary person who doesn't do that. It's rare to find a person, unfortunately in this world, especially in society, it's rare to find a person of great character, a person who's just got impeccable character and is always truthful and works really hard and is loved by a lot of people. Rare. It's rare. And so they've never experienced it, they never been around it.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And so they don't even know what it is.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right. They don't know that they're sabotaging.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And sometimes that's one of the. The real places where a guy like Jelly Roll can. Can change people's lives is because he does talk about all of the negative that he's experienced and all the negative influences and all the bad people that he was around and how he was living that life. He was just trapped in that way, and now he's not anymore.

[Wayne Tanner]

And, and, and he. So the big things, substance, criminal, lie, overweight, all those. Those are usually the big things. And he overcame all of them.

[Cam Canaday]

All of them.

[Wayne Tanner]

So it's like that's where that power comes from, where to influence so many people. It's because. So what was your issue again? Well, Jelly Roll World. Yeah, he overcame that.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

Oh, wait, was there something else? Oh, that too. I mean, yeah, it's everything. All the big things he's overcome.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

So what? What else is there? What else are you going to blame?

[Joe Rogan]

You just gotta find a thing. Find a thing. Get on a path.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. Get moving on the path.

[Cam Canaday]

Don't look to go to the bathroom.

[Wayne Tanner]

Sorry, lads.

[Joe Rogan]

All right.

[Wayne Tanner]

What? See, I told you.

[Joe Rogan]

It's got that Australian bladder. It's upside down.

[Wayne Tanner]

No, it's an iv. I told him. I said, said, I said, hey, put all that in, like this much whatever fluid because I don't want to have to take a piss.

[Joe Rogan]

I wonder if it works as good that way.

[Wayne Tanner]

They made it super concentrated.

[Joe Rogan]

Did they really?

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, they did.

[Joe Rogan]

That's hilarious. Why don't you just, like, wait and pee? I don't mind peeing, but every time I've done that when I come here after an iv, I do the same thing after pee.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, I know.

[Joe Rogan]

Or after the sauna. Because after the sauna, I always drink this giant 64 ounce thing of water and electrolytes. And then like an hour and a half in the podcast, I'm like, oh. Oh, no.

[Wayne Tanner]

That hits Joey Roll, he learned that lesson in the blind because we were sitting for hours and like, if you haven't ever been in a position where, you know, you. You can't just get out and go pee or whatever, then you're like, ooh, I didn't know what this holding, you know, he said he was gonna piss his pants. He's like, had to make a hole in the blind and pee into and cover it up with. Because I was like, okay, just make a little hole covered up with dirt, whatever. And that's what he did. But, yeah, it's pretty when you got a piss. It could be miserable.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, there's a mental challenge of sitting still for long periods of time. Like, I've only tree stand hunted once. I did it at Dudley's place in Iowa.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And the thing about Iowa is, first of all, it's in November that you're hunting and it's so cold. It's so cold and you have to sit still.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

You can't move a muscle console. And you're out there for hours and hours and hours just hoping a deer gets it within bow range. And the only reason why they do is just. They just happen to be wandering.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's total luck. It's complete luck. I mean, that's why those guys, like a lot of those, like, real psycho Lee Lukovsky guys, they, they, they'll out. They're out there for months at a time.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They'll hunt a single buck for like 38 days or however long the season is, is. And they're in that damn blind every day, or they're in that tree every day, just dark to dark, easing their dick off, just huddling up with mittens. And, and, and then when the, and sometimes when, if you have a, like a powerful bow, like you pull back, like when it's zero degrees outside and you go to pull that thing back, you're like tough.

[Wayne Tanner]

You might not get it back.

[Cam Canaday]

No.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, no.

[Wayne Tanner]

And that's a helpless feeling.

[Cam Canaday]

Oh.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, no.

[Wayne Tanner]

Nowadays. So back in the day, back when I used to, you know, I still tree stand hunt, you know, for blacktail sometimes. But phones have changed. Like how long you can stay because you can just around on your phone now.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, that's true.

[Wayne Tanner]

And then also there's heated vests, heated socks.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

So you can have like. It's still just standing in a tree or sitting in a tree for 14 hours. Terrible.

[Joe Rogan]

Still terrible, terrible. Even when all that stuff, it's a.

[Wayne Tanner]

Little easier, but pretty terrible.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, thankfully, gear's a lot better too, like layering systems and you could stay like, you could stay alive. Let me put it that way. You're not going to be comfortable, but you could stay alive out there.

[Wayne Tanner]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Degrees sitting still.

[Wayne Tanner]

Dude, I didn't. So I, you know, signed on with Sitka now, but I hadn't I other things. I was, you know, under armour, different, whatever. And I guess I had never had good gear my entire life because I didn't know I didn't have to be miserable in a tree stand. And so Sitka Simi. I don't know what it is, it's like some side sideways zip jacket or. Yeah, it's a jacket. It's. I can't remember what it's called but it's polar fleece. And I was like up there going, this is nice. I feel good, I'm not freezing. And I had never. So like I said, I've bow hunted my whole life I guess always just had like that wasn't the best and just thought it's part of the deal.

[Joe Rogan]

Not just that it doesn't restrict any of your movement.

[Wayne Tanner]

No. I used to have to wear like seven hoodies, right. Trying to pull a bow with seven hoodies on. But that's how I had to stay warm. So with the Sitka stuff with John, John Barclays and he's kind of in design and he's a bow hunter himself. But I can have this on, on and it's not restrictive. I can pull my bow and you know, it's not. This isn't like a ad for Sitka. There's. If there's other stuff out there that does that too great. I just don't know about it because I'd never had it. But man, that, that works good.

[Joe Rogan]

There's a bunch of high level gear that's out there but it's like whatever they've done with Sitka, they've made it so that everything works perfectly. They've dialed it in perfectly. The pants, they have the built in knee knee pads which is huge. I love those pants pants. So when you're crawling on like they're the perfect knee pads. They're super lightweight but you could sneak around on stuff on your knees and not be in agony.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And it doesn't restrict your movement at all.

[Wayne Tanner]

The level of detail they have now on these clothes.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah is, is and it's more fitted. You know, I remember like stuff that we used to use. We used to complain about it together. But it's like who are they making these pants for when the legs are that wide at the bottom still. So you're walking along hunting and it's.

[Wayne Tanner]

Just like, like bell bottoms and they get wet, they're flopping around and it makes me so pissed. I would take pictures and send a kid when he's at Under Armour or like the Pocket or something. I'm like what the is going on? But yeah, this, this stuff fits good. Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's just, I mean that's one of the reasons to give them props so that they stay open, stay alive. Because it's like that, that kind of Gear is so important. Important. Yeah, you know, to have gear that doesn't restrict your movement. Totally keeps you comfortable and warm. Makes you, like. So you can move around very quietly. The. The whatever fabrics they're using, they got it dialed in, man.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

When you're walking, if your fabric rubs together, you don't hear a thing. Yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

And again, time's precious. And when we're doing stuff in this time, we want to enjoy it, so we're in gear that makes us enjoy it.

[Wayne Tanner]

It's great.

[Joe Rogan]

But it's just the. The market. This is like one of the things that really is, I think, important. Like, the market for these things that are so impactful and important to us is not a. Did I just touch the microphone? Did I fuck something up? Sounded weird on my end. It's not a big market. There's not a lot of us out there, you know, so it's like, God, I'm so thankful that someone put so much research and development into these products. Whether it's Hoyt bows or whatever you're using that you like, you got to think, like, how many people had to work tirelessly to figure out how to make this thing that is so critical to your success? You know, fill in the blank binos, like, whatever it is, whatever you're using. Who figured out how to make binoculars? How about the Sig ones that have image stabilizing now?

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Who figured that out? Who's what wizard? What wizard? Scientists. I got a pair of those 16 power SIGs. The Zulus.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You hit that switch and turn on the image stabilization. And normally, if you're holding. For people who don't know, if you're holding 16 power binos in your hand, your image that you're getting on the other end is all wiggly zoomed in. Sixteen times larger than what you actually see. So every micro movement is a giant jiggle in your eyesight, in your eye. Picture, picture. But with those things, it's like you're watching a movie. It's, like fully locked in, like it's on a tripod. It's crazy.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

I was looking for a friends, and I'm like. And I was like, look, the glass isn't as good in them. And I'm saying that to him, you know, and then because I'm looking through Maya, Maya, crystal clear. And maybe the glass isn't as good in them, but because the image is dead still. So I'm doing this. I'm putting mine up, and I'm like, yeah, it's really clear. And Then I put that up and I'm like, they're not as clear. No, you have to turn the button on. And then I press the button on. It's like, oh, they're better.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

Because the image is still. So you're really getting to look at.

[Joe Rogan]

It's. It's. It's gonna be. It's the future. Swarovski is now doing it with spotting scopes. So they have a handheld spotting scope that completely stabilizes the image.

[Cam Canaday]

And it's no tripod now.

[Joe Rogan]

No tripod. I mean, you hold like a 65 power spotting scope and you. You can look around like this, which is crazy. Crazy. Well, crazy.

[Wayne Tanner]

And the reason why that's so critical to a hunter is we look for movement just like an animal looks for us moving too quickly, but we look for movement like an ear flick or a. Or a tail wag or something like. Or they'll. Sometimes they're high just if they got a fly lands on them. So you're looking for like a small little bit of movement. You can't do that if you're. But not if you've got movement in your optics. But with that stabilization, it's dead solid. So you can see when that ear flicks where it'd be flicking before, you just didn't notice it. So that's where it's like so critical. But if you think about all this stuff, this top of the line stuff that we talked about with the bows, the camo, the binos, bow hunting still was so hard. That's what's so beautiful about it, is it's so challenging. I don't care about. All this stuff is great.

[Joe Rogan]

No matter what you do, you're gonna stink.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And if the wind catches the back of your neck and you see that animal's head pop up, it's a wrap.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They're designed to get the. Away from any funky smells of things that eat meat.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Not interested. I'm out of here. They smell us. Bribe. We must stank.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

We must smell like hot death to them.

[Cam Canaday]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because when you see an elk or a deer catches a whiff of you and their. Their head is like, oh, no, what is this?

[Wayne Tanner]

They don't even have to think that long about it.

[Joe Rogan]

And you know, they keep making these rules to try to make bow hunting harder, like eliminating certain things. Like that Garmin site. I used to love using that Garmin range finding site. And then they made it outlawed in Utah. I'm like, oh, guys, come on. Like, this doesn't make it any easier, it just makes it so that you're going to wound less things and have more effective shots. Shots. But you know, when you get to that like it used to be, there was no rangefinders right. When you started out. Was there any range finders at all? Nothing.

[Cam Canaday]

There were no sights when I started out. No peep sight. No fixed sight.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, we crazy.

[Wayne Tanner]

We shot fingers with compound.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Wayne Tanner]

So you. I'd have a little glove three tab glove thing and you shoot that.

[Joe Rogan]

What year did they invent the archery release?

[Wayne Tanner]

Well, I got 11 in 89 finally.

[Joe Rogan]

When did they first come out? Like, who. Who's got to be the first guy that invent? Who's the first guy that goes, you know what? This is the first thing that I can.

[Cam Canaday]

I like how Cam's like, I got one in 89. I was nine years old.

[Wayne Tanner]

Well, at least you were born.

[Cam Canaday]

I didn't know the word elk.

[Wayne Tanner]

But you knew the word cunt because they say it all the time down.

[Cam Canaday]

There when you're a baby little cunt.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, who is the guy that figured out the Archer release? That guy's a wizard.

[Wayne Tanner]

Jim Fletcher was it. The Fletcher release was the first one I had. And it had a little rope in it. I remember you'd have to put the rope around and it hook on the trigger on the clasp, and then you'd hit the trigger and release it. And I didn't get. I had to replace that rope because it start to wear off. So you'd have to have the right knot and then you kind of burn it to get it to hold in there. I didn't have a good enough. So I didn't do that. Not right. I go to pull the bow back, the release comes off, hit myself in the face. And so when I first started buying.

[Joe Rogan]

Releases, they would come with a little string.

[Cam Canaday]

Did they?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, the first some releases would come with a little rope. And I was like, what the is this for? And it must be for guys who had kind of always done it that way and didn't want to not do it that way anymore because that was like a part of their thing maybe.

[Wayne Tanner]

Did you find a Fletcher release?

[Cam Canaday]

1971.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Wayne Tanner]

71. Oh, yeah. Look at that.

[Joe Rogan]

Stanislavski.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Still, they make awesome releases today. Look at that.

[Wayne Tanner]

That is awesome.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, so that was just like a thing that went around your finger.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. And it just turns to let it go.

[Joe Rogan]

Like a hinge.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow. May revolutionize. Look at that image. May revolutionize archery. Look at this. At that. Go back to that. Look at that. May revolutionize Archie by contributing to unprecedented accuracy. I mean, that's essentially like a hinge.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, it is.

[Cam Canaday]

Was there a fight back on it at the time?

[Joe Rogan]

66.

[Cam Canaday]

66.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Cam Canaday]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Touched a bow before. 64. It was like. I got some.

[Cam Canaday]

I got an idea for you guys.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow. Using the six gold bow string release to improve their speed and accuracy. Wow.

[Wayne Tanner]

Oh.

[Joe Rogan]

His two sons, Glenn and his two sons use this release.

[Wayne Tanner]

I never even heard of this guy's name.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow. Look how it works too. Like you hook it with your index finger and then you pull your index finger through and it pops off. That's crazy. So when you draw it, you have it like that and then you release it. You let it go.

[Wayne Tanner]

You just let up on your. With your index finger. Yeah, Like a hinge and it turns. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot of guys shoot a hinge that way. You know, some guys shoot a hinge by pulling down with their pinky finger.

[Wayne Tanner]

See that? See that piece of rope? Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Hand released from 1950.

[Cam Canaday]

Whoa. Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

So there's certain release. That's crazy. Look at that thing.

[Wayne Tanner]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at that thing. It looks like a gun handle. That's so weird.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, it's. Huh. 5.95.

[Joe Rogan]

$5.90 cash.

[Cam Canaday]

Some things have changed.

[Wayne Tanner]

That's shipping right now. I mean, you can't even ship for that.

[Joe Rogan]

What a cool looking release piece. Imagine what a gangster you'd have to be to use that today.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I wonder if they could.

[Wayne Tanner]

I love all this stuff though.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at that one up there. 1977. A sear type release. Go up.

[Cam Canaday]

Oh, look at the guy with all the girls.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's. What did you get?

[Wayne Tanner]

Oh, see, that's bow.

[Joe Rogan]

Honey, look at this. This is the first hinge style release.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So this is in the 70s, huh? Look how weird that thing looks.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

It was always hard to get a consistent release with fingers.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right?

[Joe Rogan]

Of course.

[Cam Canaday]

Three fingers.

[Wayne Tanner]

No. Your fingers get cold and shit's wet.

[Joe Rogan]

Totally makes sense.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Wayne Tanner]

Let's look at the other ones real quick.

[Cam Canaday]

There was always a big fight in Australia. Whenever something new come in. Like sights on a boat. Oh.

[Joe Rogan]

Go to that image of that guy.

[Wayne Tanner]

Terry Rack with the girls. Yeah, he was. He shot pse. Yeah, he was a legend.

[Cam Canaday]

Psc, baby.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at the girls are on their knees. Oh my God. You shoot that stick so good.

[Wayne Tanner]

See, and that's still how it is pretty much.

[Cam Canaday]

That happens all the time. That's how as soon as you pull a release.

[Joe Rogan]

I can't Wait, they hop out of the trees.

[Wayne Tanner]

He was. He was a stud. I remember Terry and Michelle Ragsdale.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at that.

[Wayne Tanner]

D Wild. Yeah, he was the wild thing when I first started. He was the man.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, that one has a trigger. That might be one of the first ones with a trigger.

[Cam Canaday]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

See that one's with the string like.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

If you would buy old Carter releases, they would come. Some of the releases would come with like a little string. Yeah, it was we. I was like, what is this stupid string for? I never get it. I never even asked anybody.

[Wayne Tanner]

Oh, really?

[Joe Rogan]

No, it just like didn't make sense.

[Wayne Tanner]

See that? I remember that. That's 2,000. So that's getting newer.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at the wind release. That's nuts.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, there's an overdraw up there. Yeah, that's cool.

[Wayne Tanner]

Overdraw, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So that's 1990. Look at that funky looking one with wood. This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. Tis the season for identity theft. This time of year, most of us are checking off our holiday gift list. But guess what? Identity thieves have lists too. And your personal information might be on them. Protect your identity with LifeLock. LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points every second and alerts you to threats you could miss by yourself. Even if you keep an eye on your bank and credit card statements. If your identity is stolen, your own US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Plus, all plans are backed by the million dollar protection package. And you know that person in your life who is impossible to shop for. Maybe it's a grandparent or your mom or a close friend. Well, here's an idea. Give them the gift of peace of mind and get them Lifelock. The last thing you or anyone wants to do this holiday season is face drained accounts, fraudulent loans, loans or other financial losses from identity theft all alone. Make this season about joy, not identity theft. With Lifelock, save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use the promo code JRE or go to lifelock.com jre for 40% off terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Aura Frames. Look, I get it it this time of year, everything goes by so quickly. And the next thing you know, you got two days left to find the perfect gift. Well, let me tell you what you're not going to do. You're not going to wait until the last minute panic and then settle for gift cards. Instead, give them something thoughtful and personal. An aura digital frame loaded with all their favorite pictures and videos. It comes with unlimited free storage. So you or anyone you know can upload as much as you want to it. All you need is the aura app and a wi fi connection. Plus, the frame can come preloaded, like with last year's pic of you and your family all wearing matching Christmas pajamas. The aura frame is perfect for everyone. Your grandparents, your mom, your sister who lives across the country. Because the gift of togetherness beats out lame, generic gift cards any day. For a limited time, save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off Aura's best selling Carver Matte frames named number one by Wirecutter by using the promo code rogan at checkout. That's a U r a frames.com and then promo code rogan. This deal is exclusive to listeners, and frames sell out fast, so order yours now to get it on time for the holidays. Case support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. That's kind of cool looking. Yeah, that does. So it gets us a thumb button. That must be.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, right? Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Wayne Tanner]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

And see, some of them have strings.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

So in case people were, like, old school.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. Pretty cool.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow. So how would you. When you first started, how would you measure distance? Distance? Would you. Was it all just in your mind?

[Wayne Tanner]

Instinct.

[Joe Rogan]

Instinct. So just like throwing a ball.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. So you just have to. You know, it's just like now they have unmarked 3D tournaments where they don't have it. You just have to get out there and kind of judge. It was definitely harder back then because the bows weren't as fast. So you're. You could only be off by, like a yard or two or you'd miss. Now, with a faster, flatter shooting bow, you can be off. You can't be out by five yards.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. For people who don't know what we're talking about, the slower the bow is, the more it's gonna drop. By the time it gets to the target, the faster the bow is, the flatter it's gonna shoot.

[Cam Canaday]

You'd learn your cast on the bow too. So you never wanted to get rid of that bow because you would literally learn the cast of an arrow.

[Wayne Tanner]

That's what Adam's talking about, is the trajectory. So we used to practice this all the time. Like, you'd have a target out there at 60 yards, but halfway in between you and the target, you couldn't even see the target. So you put, like, you could put a car. And so you're looking through the car window because you can see through the glass. And line of sight, you're going to go right through, break the windows and everything else. But you just know that at 60 yards, that arrow is going to be 10 yards above that car halfway there. So at 30 yards, arrow has to go up to come down at 60, so you could just aim right at the car, arrows going right over it. So we do stuff like that just.

[Joe Rogan]

For fun to figure out the arc of the arrow.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right. But not even that was like, it just an elementary example just so people could get what I'm saying. But when we'd get in the woods, then there'd be a branch. Like I. I said, I shot with Levi Morgan. He came out and did lift, run, shoot. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna beat this fucker. He's 16, 17 time world champion. So I had all these shots where it's like, okay, this branch, is he gonna know? This one shot was like. I think it was 90 some yards at a deer up on the hill. But there's this big branch halfway in between between it. And I knew it was kind of hard to tell is your arrow going to go over it or under it? Right?

[Joe Rogan]

It was.

[Wayne Tanner]

Because you didn't know that. I think it was about 25 yards away. I knew what my arrow was going to do because I practiced over and over and over. And I'm going to be like, oh, Levi's going to this one up for sure. I'll. I'll beat him on this target, sure as he knew exactly what his arrow was going to do. But that's. He practices that all the time and done it his whole life and, and this and that. But just fun games like that. And it was only just to make us because when you're hunting that happens all the time. But where I would kind of screw myself up is I loved the challenge of shots so much. Like, and I shot between trees so often because that was like my thing. I could just like. Even if it was just like, like 4 inches, I'd be like, oh, I can't. So when I was hunting, if I'd see a challenging shot on an animal, I'd be like, where I could have maybe taken a step to the right and got wide open, I'd be like, I can make this shot. And like, like making my hunting shot more challenging because I was just young and an idiot now, I'd be like, I'd be stupid. I just go right here and shoot. But I would do that. But we'd practice that all the time because it was fun. Yeah. And Then you'd like, have. You'd want your. I mean, I had so much confidence in shooting. I would shoot hours and hours and hours every day. I remember one time we were at this Henson's. These guys who used to bow hunt with us, me and Roy were there. And there's a bale out there, 70 some yards. And then a piece of foam that was like a broadhead target. Used to be just a square piece of foam, like 2 inches, maybe 3 inches wide, but like by 2 foot. By 2 foot. And that was your broadhead target. And that would stop an arrow with a broadhead on it. Just that two or three inches of foam. Well, the foam target, the broadhead target was laying flat on the bale at 70 yards, so it was only like 2 inches. You know, we would like have these competitions all the time. I'm like, I said, see that broadhead target on the cedar bale? Yeah. I'm gonna hit that broadhead target. And I would hit it and that. So we were the best shots ever with no rangefinders. So then Bushnell finally came up with a rangefinder. And it was like a kind of.

[Cam Canaday]

Like a. I remember like a cassette.

[Wayne Tanner]

Like a. Yeah. Kind of longer, like an eight track tape. Almost like sort of size. And then it had a dial on it. And the images, it'd be off. And then if you lined up the image like this, that would be. You look at the. Then you'd look at it. Wherever that image lined up, that'd be the yardage. So then you'd be like, okay, that's close to 50 yards. Then you know, to shoot for 50. But it wasn't very accurate. It was close.

[Joe Rogan]

And did you have a sight tape?

[Wayne Tanner]

You had pins.

[Joe Rogan]

You had pins?

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, the. The sights didn't move at that.

[Joe Rogan]

So your pins would be set up at like 20, 30, 40, 50, something like that.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, and they just had like, we called them T dot. So it was like a little plastic sort of like fiber, but it's like red plastic that would sort of like have light on it. Like a little. Just a little.

[Cam Canaday]

Little fiber optics or anything that wasn't.

[Wayne Tanner]

Fiber, but it light up a little because it's red plastic.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I heard people talking about this the other day. They were talking about Josh Jones and that. Josh and Tim's Fireside Chat. Yeah, it's a great podcast.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They were talking about how a site that you buy today for like 25 bucks is so superior to anything that existed in like 1990. Yeah, like, like, it still made it it's fiber optics.

[Cam Canaday]

Enjoyable. It still made it a lot more successful. You know, it's like it was still a big advance at that time.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

But to think about where it is now.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, the garment site, like I was telling you about, that, that I. It had a few flaws. One, I had one that worked perfectly, and then I had a second one. You know, when you get you. One of the things you said when you get a new bow, you don't want to put old on the boat. You want to put new shit on. I did that too. But unfortunately, my first garment site worked perfectly. My second one didn't work so good.

[Cam Canaday]

Good.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, there would be times where it worked perfectly and then times where I couldn't get a range. I'd press it, it wouldn't go. I. I full draw press. It won't go press it won't go press it. Finally. But when it does work, you get this, like a red dot. You get a clear screen, and on that screen is a red dot. No pins, no wires, no nothing. And, oh, I loved it when it worked perfect. Because then, say if you hit an elk at 50 yards and then he stands out at 80 and he's still standing broadside, you don't have to rearrange. You just press a button on your grip and it instantly gives you a new range.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. I think we talked about this before, and I think I mentioned that the goal is to try to protect the integrity of archery, like, keeping it primitive. So it's like, where's that line?

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Wayne Tanner]

In Utah, they decided that that garment site was past the line of primitive, you know, so we want to. We want to honor archery and the history of archery. And yes, there's been advancements, but it's always. It's a. It's a moving target on where the line is to keep it primitive.

[Joe Rogan]

I get it. But if you've ever. I don't think. I think it's ignorant because I think if you use one of those things, you realize, like, all it's doing is taking a step away. It's still the same exact thing. You're range finding either way, and then you're dialing to 50 yards and whatever, you know, you have to do to execute the shot then. But this way you're a full draw, and the range finding is a part of that. It's just smarter. If it worked perfectly, it's smarter. And I think they're gonna get better. And I'm sure the software is better. I haven't used it in two years. But when it worked, it was amazing. It was like, this is really what you want. What you want is to absolutely know the exact distance. So, so you can make an ethical shot. So if you range at 50 and then he takes a few steps and then you're guessing because you can't re range. Look, we already have a less than 10% success rate anyway. It's not like everyone who gets a tag is going to get an elk. It's a small number of people that are really successful all the time. But that would keep you from wounding and that should be our goal always. I don't think it's, I don't think it's any easier, it's just more effective.

[Cam Canaday]

I think there's more room for error in it though, isn't there, there? Because like my binoculars are the range finder so I can definitely get the dot 100% on the animal.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right.

[Cam Canaday]

Whereas I think with those sites it's a little bit more difficult to definitely be ranging that animal and not a branch five yards behind it or five.

[Joe Rogan]

Not when you're at full draw. No, they're really good. So when you're at full draw, when, when it worked at full draw, you're steady like your pin. Right. So you, you have a target and the target is like this little red thing and when you put it on there and then you press the button, then it gives you your pin, like.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, but what if you're not on it? What if you're like. Because you said it would eliminate wounding, which it would.

[Joe Rogan]

No, no, I didn't say to eliminate wounding. If I did, I misspoke. What I meant was you're going to get less of that because you're going to have more effective exact ranges.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right, but you said like if you needed a follow up shot, that's where people we know adrenaline goes crazy for sure after the first shot. So if they're wound up and they're shooting too quickly because that site allows it, would that, could that be a negative?

[Joe Rogan]

But it's a follow up shot.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Why are you shooting too quickly? That's a mind management thing. You know, you should figure out how to manage your mind and calm yourself down and, and make that shot. You wouldn't freak out on a second shot. Right? That's what I'm saying. And if you had that and you 100% could count on it the same way you count on your rangefinder, that would be the best thing for everybody. Best thing for the animal. Best thing for you. Best thing for everybody. This Is a more and it's a way better sight picture. The sight picture is amazing. It's a red dot. It's just like a red dot on a pistol, you know, like a red dot on a pistol. That's what it looks like. That dot is just sitting there and you're not. You just can put it right on the vitals. It's a beautiful feeling when you watch through that range, through that range finding site and you put that pin up and then the arrow releases. Then you watch that arrow soar and boink right in there.

[Wayne Tanner]

Oh, yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

Hunting.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, it's nice.

[Wayne Tanner]

I don't doubt that. You know, it's like, I'm just devil's advocate, but I get it.

[Joe Rogan]

Look, I'm a fan of like a company that does something like that. I'm a fan of Garb. I mean, I got a Garmin watch on right now. Yeah, I'm a fan of Garmin, period. They make awesome. They make awesome range finding. I mean, awesome GPS equipment. They make awesome watches. They make great. They make great, great. The, the chest straps, the. The workout things. Yeah, they make awesome stuff. So I'm just happy that someone put the research and development and the money that must have taken to put together a range finding binocular range finding site rather, that actually works.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, I agree.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, I just want a better one.

[Wayne Tanner]

I would.

[Joe Rogan]

I want it perfect.

[Cam Canaday]

I'll get there.

[Joe Rogan]

I want it like my. Like I have that. One of the things that I love, I have a loophole hold full draw five. That's my favorite range finder of all time because it gives you the arc of the arrow at its peak. That is so huge. And I used it to kill a bull once because. And when I had that Garmin site, in fact, because I had the Garmin site and I ranged this elk and it was at 50 yards, but there was a hole only like this where I could shoot through. And I was like, oh, I don't know. So then I pull out the. The loophole and I hit the button and I see the exact arc of the arrow where it's going to be at its height, and Its height was 6 inches below those branches. I'm like, we're good.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, we're good.

[Joe Rogan]

So just keep the pin on them and was perfect. See that thing? Ah, love that thing. Yeah, that thing's so huge. So you know. Exactly. Right, Right. There is a little sketch.

[Cam Canaday]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Because that could hit it on the way in. Right. So that's the height of your arrow. But that doesn't mean where, where's that tree?

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like that tree might be 20 yards ahead of you.

[Wayne Tanner]

You might.

[Joe Rogan]

Might smack right into that thing. So you have to take that into consideration. But having that extra indication of the height, the high point of the arrow.

[Wayne Tanner]

Huge. On this huge. You just take a step to the left.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Wayne Tanner]

Then you or if you're me when I was younger, you just shoot.

[Cam Canaday]

Shoot straight forward.

[Joe Rogan]

You get on your knees.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Get on your knees, get on your knees. Execute the shot. But it's like having that knowledge, what it's going to keep is that arrow whacking that branch and then sticking in his ass and wounding him. You know, whereas you, you might have made a perfect release. But because of that high, high point of the arrow indication now you know and you can make a more educated decision. And it's all about making the ethical shot. And so for me, anything that allows you. It's still going to be really hard to do. It's always hard.

[Wayne Tanner]

Here's. Here's. Okay, so I'll just do a list real quick. The biggest help help in bow hunting has been the laser rangefinder that. That changed the game definitely. Now that was back in the day. Now sight tapes now. Well some people. Yeah, some. Some people don't do well with sight tapes in the heat of the moment as far as dialing the site.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Wayne Tanner]

But it can make. It's made me more accurate at longer range for sure to be able to dial the sight and hold. Right on.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right. Now the. So that a positive has been on X or the mapping system as far as for hunting the mounds at a specific. Helped so many people and so much confidence.

[Joe Rogan]

Huge.

[Wayne Tanner]

That's a giant one. It's like that's one reason why the back country definitely has more people in it because more people are confident. Used to be like. Used to have to read a 7.5 minute per angle topo map. You don't have to do that anymore. So now and you don't have to figure out where your car is anymore. You put the. You mark your car, you're good to go. That's been huge. There's a huge negative. Not too many people are talking about and it's. It's using optics with. They pick up heat signature.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

What are those called?

[Cam Canaday]

Thermals.

[Wayne Tanner]

Thermals, yeah, those. Dude, it's not good for hunting. You don't. So glassing is an art. We've talked about glass and having good glass movement. Glassing is an art. These thermal optics, you don't have to be good at anything.

[Joe Rogan]

You're like, predator.

[Wayne Tanner]

You put them up. Yeah. And it tells you where the animal is. So I've never even used one, but I've talked to guys who have used them, and I. And I know that it's not great because what would take hours to glass and you probably would miss, you know, a bedded mule deer buck, five minutes, you know, where every animal is on that hill.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a good argument. There's a good argument that that's too far.

[Wayne Tanner]

That is. That is way too far.

[Joe Rogan]

And is that legal in most states?

[Wayne Tanner]

It hasn't even hardly been covered, really. It's kind of a new technology that they don't even address, really.

[Joe Rogan]

But I'm saying California's outlawed it.

[Wayne Tanner]

I hope so, because it needs to be outlawed everywhere.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a good point.

[Wayne Tanner]

So many big animals are getting killed that shouldn't be getting killed right now by guys using thermals. And is it a loophole? Are they doing it when they shouldn't be doing it in some states? Or is it because to catch people is tough? You know, hunting is about honor. Honor and respect. It's what we talk about. We police ourselves. We do it right. You know, I mean, yeah, there's people who get busted for doing. But most people are just out there policing ourselves.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's because they want that same respect. Yeah, you talked about it. What's Holiday's first name again?

[Wayne Tanner]

Cal Holiday.

[Joe Rogan]

Cal Holiday.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

When you talk about that guy, they want you to talk about. Every man wants you to talk about him like that. He's not around like that. And they're not going to. If you're cutting corners and you're using some you're not supposed to use or what is that. What is the law on that, though? Because, like, every state has different laws, Right. Like Nevada, you're allowed to use walkie talkies. And at least you used to be able to. Where you can tell people, hey, he's right above you.

[Cam Canaday]

It's a little bit probably like the E bike thing where it's so fresh that they haven't come up with, you can or you can't right now. It's a bicycle. No, it's not. It's a motorcycle. It's optics. No, it's not. It's thermals.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right? Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Let's see what the laws are put. Put that into perplexity. What are the laws? What states allow thermal binoculars for hunting? Thermal scopes are not universally allowed for hunting. Yeah, but not thermal scopes. Thermal binoculars.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Does it say Thermal.

[Wayne Tanner]

It says thermal optics down below right there. In Europe, owning thermoptics is often.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but what about America? In America, what states allow thermal binoculars for hunting? Put that in there.

[Wayne Tanner]

There.

[Joe Rogan]

Not scopes. That's the problem. It's the word scope is for a rifle scope. Binoculars. Let's see. How crazy is this AI where it just does this and immediately gives you the answer. Thermal imaging devices, including binoculars and monoculars are legal to own in the United States. And many states allow them in some hunting context, especially predators or nuisance species like hogs or coyotes. However, several states either completely ban thermal for any hunting or ban profession possession, rather use of thermal devices while taking or locating wildlife. So examples of state rules. Some states explicitly allow thermal optics for night hunting. For example, Texas, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Missouri authorized thermal devices for specific predator or invasive species hunts in their 2025 regulations. Other states, such as Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Tennessee prohibit thermo optics for hunting wildlife altogether or for most game species. Yeah, so a lot of states. So it seems like a few states are on the ball with this.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, I mean, it's a big deal because those animals, to get to trophy status for these animals, they're old, they've survived, they know what it takes. They've done it. They've outwitted hunters for years. And now in their best bed, where a man would never be able to find them by glassing those.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, they're behind a tree, but an ear is showing up.

[Wayne Tanner]

It's not, it's not hunting, it's not right. It's not use. It's not the art of glassing, which is what, you know, how we've developed these skills. It's using technology that makes sense.

[Joe Rogan]

It makes sense because it's like you're saying there is a of lot.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, and that you, you are actively campaigning for something that's going to make your job easier to go away.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, I wanted to, I wanted to keep, keep the challenge there.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's also what he said when you, like you said in the town you grew up, if you killed a big buck, like people respected you. Why? Because that's really hard to do.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Those big old bucks are smart and they are tuned in, man. They hear branch snap and it's like, fuck this. Boing.

[Cam Canaday]

They're that big for a reason.

[Joe Rogan]

They're that big for a reason.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, yeah, it's. And I, I know in, in Utah, I was going down this creek this year and I saw like there's Some. There's some cedar trees, like a kind of a patch of them there, but basically there's a tunnel in there and then a deer bed and like, you couldn't see it from anywhere. And I was thinking, man, if a buck was bedded there, you'd have no idea. Yeah, right. And. But you would now if you had the thermal optics. And that's like, that was a perfect example of a buck that found that bed. That story is safe and that's how we survived. Now that. That.

[Cam Canaday]

Taking that away.

[Wayne Tanner]

Taking that away. That's.

[Cam Canaday]

There's probably trad guys listening to this podcast though, off you.

[Joe Rogan]

For people that don't know what that means. Trad guys are guys who hunt with a regular old school bow and arrow, like a recurve bow, which is a good challenge. They're just guessing where that arrow is going to go, you know?

[Cam Canaday]

Well, hopefully practice.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah, they practice. But there is a lot of good guessing. You're guessing the yardage, you're guessing where your arrow is going to hit. You know, I mean, some of those guys that trad boat hunt, do they use rangefinders? No, none of them. So all of them are just guessing.

[Wayne Tanner]

It's instinct.

[Cam Canaday]

I try and do a couple of tread bowls. Instinct.

[Joe Rogan]

Is it because it's like when you throw a rock, is that guessing? No, it's instinct.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right?

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. It's just like to get good at pitching a baseball.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Wayne Tanner]

You know, I mean, it's the same. Some people are really good, except the.

[Joe Rogan]

Pitcher'S mound and the batter's box. The same distance every time.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, it's true. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the difference.

[Cam Canaday]

Well, if you're disciplined, you would know that it's under 20 yards every time and that's all you'd take.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but there's a lot of guys that can take a poke with a recurve bow. Yeah. You know, pretty accurate with it. Like, they have some different ways of measuring, like where the tip of it is at 40 yards. They know that that's when it's going to hit dead on.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They look down the arrow instead of like we do through a peephole. They're looking down the shaft of the arrow arrow. They look all squirrely and like this.

[Wayne Tanner]

Some people look so squirrely they put it on their eye or put it here and they use the point of the arrow, as you said. But yeah, it's like most people, though, like, you talk about discipline, like, I'm gonna shoot if it's 20 yards or less. That's the only time I'm shoot unless it's huge.

[Joe Rogan]

I had once in a life.

[Wayne Tanner]

It was the biggest thing bull I've ever seen. I have. I had to shoot.

[Joe Rogan]

Sometimes you think you see things and you're like, how do I get to that?

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

How do I find them? Even if it's far away.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, yeah. Normally like you see stuff. Here's would be the technology that would really hurt because you see something a mile away and you know that animal's there. If I could just get to that tree line. If you could just be there. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that's where those long range rifle guys. That's a whole different argument. Right. Some of those guys, they'll take a poke 7, 900 yards, you know, and they're real accurate with it.

[Wayne Tanner]

These guys are so good. Like they're shooting. Yeah. And that's. That's a whole nother thing.

[Joe Rogan]

They're taking into account the wind across the canyon.

[Wayne Tanner]

And I saw this guy. I'm pretty sure the other Tanner was showing me this because, you know, so much waste of time shit on Instagram. But this was kind of cool. He was shooting so far and he's so good. So he's prone down. Had his long range. All his. All. Everything they do, it's. That's a whole art. But anyway, he shot and I think he was. If I remember right, he shot and it was so far. He put another shell in. Got another bullet on the way. They both hit steel.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Wayne Tanner]

They both hit steel.

[Cam Canaday]

At least it was steel and not like some.

[Joe Rogan]

He racked another round in. In the time it took for the bullet to get there.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yes. And sent the other one on the way. And so it was like. Like a dong. Dong.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, that's. This guy's a machine though. I wish I could remember the page. But guy's a machine because you can see he's down in his gun, just like in and still on that scope. Didn't move.

[Cam Canaday]

Boom.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a whole nother art form, you know, That's a whole nother. Keeping your together. Crazy. Long range shooting. I know a lot of guys that get into. My friend Justin got really into that. Once you get into long range shooting, you start just craving it. They just want to like hit that steel at 1500 yards. It's nuts. Some of these guys, they shoot insane. Like what is the record for the longest shot ever taken in a competition? Like those long range competitions. What do you think it is?

[Wayne Tanner]

I mean, it's 2,000 yards for sure.

[Cam Canaday]

Really?

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's so crazy.

[Wayne Tanner]

I would think that people are shooting at 2,000.

[Cam Canaday]

I'll have a crack.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

2.4 miles.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Cam Canaday]

Wait, really?

[Wayne Tanner]

Did I say yard? What did I mean? Did I mean yards? Yeah, I meant yards.

[Cam Canaday]

He almost nailed it.

[Joe Rogan]

What is it? Actually? Yeah. 2.4 miles.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah. Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Look. How'd you guess?

[Cam Canaday]

You.

[Wayne Tanner]

You looked that up somehow.

[Joe Rogan]

How could he lives in Australia. They're not allowed to know this information. Information.

[Cam Canaday]

I don't even know what miles is.

[Joe Rogan]

If you even search this online, please show up at your door.

[Cam Canaday]

Holy smokes.

[Joe Rogan]

4,224Yard shot at the Clark. This guy was Robert Brantley at the Clark's Knob ELR match in Kansas. Described as a new world record in long range shooting achieved under match conditions. That's incredible. That is so crazy.

[Cam Canaday]

Non competition. Almost double.

[Wayne Tanner]

Look at that.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh my God. In 2022 in Wyoming, a team recorded a 4.4 mile 7744 yard hit on steel after dozens of tries. Whoa. Wow. But not a standard scored competition stage.

[Cam Canaday]

Wow.

[Wayne Tanner]

The problem is guys see that like 4.4 miles. They're like, oh, I could shoot at a thousand yards then, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Look at that thing.

[Wayne Tanner]

They never pulled practice.

[Cam Canaday]

Good lord.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. These guys, I mean the amount of no moving you have to have.

[Wayne Tanner]

Oh my God. Dude.

[Joe Rogan]

It's crazy.

[Wayne Tanner]

But yeah, the guy out there with their buy mart 30 06. Do they. You got. You guys have Buy Marts here? Ever heard of By Mart?

[Joe Rogan]

What's a buymart?

[Wayne Tanner]

It's a store.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh no.

[Wayne Tanner]

Like a sporting good store by. Or it's not a sporting goods but anyway like they got their, you know, 250 rifle from BuyMart 3006 and they're like, like they see that and they're like oh, then I could shoot it 600 yards. They shoot at 4.4 miles. That's the problem.

[Joe Rogan]

That is part of the problem.

[Wayne Tanner]

But people say that about me too. Is like, oh, people will say I always talk about shooting animals at 100 yards, which I have never. One time. But yeah. I practice a long range but they try to lump me in. Like I'm, I'm ruining and promoting long range shooting.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, no, you're just amplifying if you're off at all though, you know. Or it's good practice.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, no, it's great. What I always said is her rifle.

[Joe Rogan]

For the 4.4 miles.

[Wayne Tanner]

Those are heavy too.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh yeah, look at it. I mean it looks like a.

[Cam Canaday]

It's a longbow. It just needs a string on it like a barbell.

[Wayne Tanner]

It's probably. I mean, I bet it's 30, 40 pounds. I don't know. Does it say the weight on those things?

[Joe Rogan]

Look at the size of that gun. Look at the barrel on that thing. That's nuts.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

First confirmed and verified world record.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

This isn't the actual one.

[Joe Rogan]

This is 2018. That shot was taken in 2022. Oh, so is it. This is a world record before the world record. Wow.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

I'd get AIDS if I touched a gun.

[Wayne Tanner]

I know those guns are heavy.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what the government tells you. You don't want to touch a gun, you might get aids.

[Cam Canaday]

That's exactly what we said.

[Wayne Tanner]

It's only if you stick it up your ass, I guess. Ass.

[Joe Rogan]

No, you got to stick it up your ass after somebody stuck it up their ass.

[Wayne Tanner]

All right. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You gotta get a second. It's like dirty needles.

[Wayne Tanner]

I hate when that happens. Yeah, it's.

[Joe Rogan]

But that's another thing. It's like, you know, like the bow hunters look at rifle hunters, like, oh, that's kind of easy. Traditional hunters look at compound hunters like, oh, that's easy. And then there's guys out there. I use a spear, you know, Each.

[Cam Canaday]

Of their own, too.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

As long as you're ethical circle. As long as you could do it. I mean, I'm sure there's probably some guy out there that knows how to hit a target with an Adolato, you know, probably.

[Wayne Tanner]

I mean, I. If I'm using a spear, I don't do anything past three yards. That's like.

[Cam Canaday]

A minute speed of buffalo.

[Joe Rogan]

We try to figure out a few.

[Cam Canaday]

Years ago who's pretty cool.

[Joe Rogan]

And did you really.

[Cam Canaday]

Oh, God.

[Joe Rogan]

Probably edit that out. We were trying to figure. I'm just kidding.

[Cam Canaday]

I'm just kidding.

[Joe Rogan]

We were trying to figure out the other day, like, when the actual bow and arrow was invented. And it's kind of difficult to track down, but it seems. The weird thing is it seems to have been invented or at least seems to exist simultaneously at many spots all over the world at the same time, which is really interesting.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It makes you think, like, I wonder. We really don't know how much people were traveling back then. We really don't. So there's a lot of guessing. And they keep pushing back maritime travel. They keep pushing back, like the age of wit, when the first, maybe even primitive humans were using some sort of a raft to get across lakes and rivers and. And maybe even oceans. But, you know, sharing that information, like, who is the wizard that looked at a stick and goes, if I could just put one of these things on the end of that stick.

[Cam Canaday]

Oh, cool.

[Joe Rogan]

And pull. That's another one.

[Wayne Tanner]

Why do you have that?

[Cam Canaday]

Huh?

[Joe Rogan]

I always have that. It's always sitting right here.

[Wayne Tanner]

Oh, yeah. They had in your pocket.

[Joe Rogan]

I did, because I put it in my pocket sometimes I'm fiddling with it. Yeah, I play with that thing. That's a real one. That's from here. Whoa.

[Wayne Tanner]

That's a good one.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, I found one in New Mexico.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's a good one. Right? Remy said that one was probably used for fish. He said, because it's so big.

[Wayne Tanner]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

That was his guess, but maybe it might have been used for bison. Sort of.

[Wayne Tanner]

I mean, it's not. Not. I mean, it would cut. I mean, it's sort of sharp.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, as sharp as you can get it.

[Wayne Tanner]

Huh. That's cool, though.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not like modern broadheads. Modern broadheads that you could shave your arm with.

[Cam Canaday]

You know, they cut your eyes when you look at them too hard, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but that's what you want. You know, that's the other thing. Like, is that too. Is that too good? Is that too easy? We should go back to flint.

[Wayne Tanner]

Go back.

[Joe Rogan]

Maybe you should make your own arrowheads.

[Wayne Tanner]

No, I like eating. There's a guy that I. Oh, he went to high school with, but he's. He would say his dad would, like, shoot his arrows down the road to make him. He would, like, want to make the broadhead door so it go in and rip a bigger hole.

[Cam Canaday]

What?

[Wayne Tanner]

So it's like.

[Joe Rogan]

So he thought.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

Anyway, people come up with some crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, if they don't know, that's the. One of the things that's cool about. When I got into bow hunting and especially learning it from you, I already knew so much just from talking to you.

[Taylor (T Spike)]

You.

[Joe Rogan]

You had so much information. I didn't have to, like, figure it out nearly as much. I just had to listen, you know? Like, so many people have already figured out metal broadhead. So, like, we were having a conversation about lighted knocks this weekend, and I'm like, damn it. I think I'm going to stop using lighted knocks.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, sorry.

[Joe Rogan]

The weight on. No, I think you got a really good point. Like, that additional 10 grains at the end can't be good for accuracy. It just can't be.

[Cam Canaday]

I think you got to pick the situation, though, and it's a little bit, you know, like, if I'm going to the Arctic and there's no sunlight, And I want to see where the arrow hits. Okay. A lighted knock's gonna override the little bit of inconsistency because it's a dull environment.

[Joe Rogan]

It's hard to see. It's almost like you're dusk all day long.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah, right. And I think, like, hunting pigs in their beds, you know, you're under the trees, it's dark. It might come into play a little bit more there. But if it's not required, then. Yeah. Why. Why interrupt even a little bit of accuracy? Because you get to a certain point in bow hunting where we're talking about the arrow shafts, the. The better the match grade of arrow shoves you can use. You don't notice that to start with, because you're just shooting, you know, and you're not super consistent. You're not super accurate. And then all those little things end up bringing a group from that to that, and there's the difference. And you'll notice that it's at this point in your archery.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it makes sense. It totally makes sense. But it's just. Again, thank God somebody figured all this stuff out. If you had to come along and do it all by yourself, like, oh.

[Cam Canaday]

It was a hard learning curve, like in Australia that, like, we didn't have the. The sort of figures and probably knowledge that you guys did, because it's like, it's part of your pastime. Right. I was talking to Evan about this. It's like, part of the American pastime, a bow hunter. Whereas in Australia, it's not, you know, and it's not. There's not all the information out there. And it seemed like Australia was probably about 10 years behind the US on sites, release aids, the knowledge behind it. And yeah, I. I think the fact that you guys have, like. We were talking about Fred Bear, you know, like, paving the way for bow hunting in America. And, you know, Australia's had its. Its idols as well, and people that have paved the way, but a lot slower than here. To have all the knowledge for you to have someone like Cam is absolutely brilliant, because you are. You've probably made those mistakes yourself or learn them yourself. And then so you go straight to Joe and be like, this is a good setup. This works. This does. And then in Australia, the first things I was sold were target sites for bow hunting, you know, and it's just like. And we didn't know any better. So as well as wasting time, you wasted a lot of money, you wasted a lot of effort, you wasted a lot of heartache, you know, on. On finding your way In Bowening.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And there's still guys right now that shoot instinctual with a compound.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, it's. It's. The Internet has definitely helped, like, educate people. You know, we start to learn it all on our own, which is like, I think, to Adam's point, where it's nice when you have a. A, A resource or a mentor. A lot of the times we didn't have that. We had magazines, we didn't have Internet, so we just have to figure it out. But when we talk about, like, the lighted knots, lighted knocks, specifically, you mentioned the weight. The weight is one part, but it's also the inconsistency of having those electronics back there on the back of the arrow. And you just can't get as good as a knock or. So that's the connection point from the arrow to the string spring. It's just not going to be as good with electronics in there with. It's trying to serve a different purpose of lighting up that knock. Where to? In my opinion, that's going to help me maybe decide on when to go after the animal, knowing where I hit it, but it's not going to make me any more lethal. It's going to make me less lethal. I want the most accurate arrow possible. And where that goes, whether I see it or not, doesn't really matter. I'm gonna have to get on that blood trail and recover that animal regardless. So just knowing where the arrow hit isn't making it any more deadly or not. You know, it's just how that might impact how I react to that shot. But I want the most accurate. That's why I shoot those, you know, the X10s, $50 an arrow, because it's the straightest, most accurate arrow. It's what they've used in the Olympics since 1996. 6. So you can use other arrows. They're not as straight, not as good. You can put lighted knocks on. You're giving up accuracy. You can do it if you want, and you can say it's going to help in these other arenas. It's not going to help with accuracy. So all I care about is that arrow going where I want it to go. That's how I look at things.

[Joe Rogan]

It's the most important. Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. It makes sense. And the amount of times where the lighted knock would help you, you is dwarfed in comparison to the amount of times where accuracy is critical. Right, right. Accuracy is always critical.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's only a small amount of times where that lighted knock is really going to Come into play where it really helps you.

[Wayne Tanner]

That's what I. I mean, it's cool and it's nice and it looks. I've never used one, so. I mean, maybe I have. You. I guess I have a few times, but I just was like, just thinking about it, like. No, my. It's not helping me.

[Joe Rogan]

I always think about it when I take the. The regular knocks off and put the lighter ones on. Like the regular knocks are solid.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The. And the lighted ones. There's a hole in the center of it where you've got electronics and a light bulb and a battery.

[Wayne Tanner]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

Like there's a bunch of in there that, that Scott of. It has to have some sort of an effect, right?

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Didn't Tom Miranda used to have something. We had a weight on the back of his arrow. Didn't he have something crazy, some weird setup where he had a.

[Cam Canaday]

Not the breadcrumb like the tracker.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't remember what he had. No, it wasn' that. It was like a thing that he did to the back of his arrow. I was like, that seems counterintuitive. Well, he had additional weight on the back. I don't know what I'm talking about. I can't remember.

[Wayne Tanner]

I don't know. But Tom Miranda, that's old school. So you're looking at. I mean he's still out there getting it done, but that's. I mean that's history.

[Cam Canaday]

Is that who we were talking about the other day with the, the Tom Miranda?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, he's had those TV shows on forever.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Adventure bow hunting with Tom Miranda.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, yeah, I know. What.

[Cam Canaday]

Okay. Yeah. Getting around the world hunting, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

That guy went all over the world hunting.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

All over the world. He was one of the first guys that ever heard about using a sauna to, to help his hunting.

[Wayne Tanner]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. He. He felt like. Cuz he was living in Florida and the guy was like, why do you want a sauna in your house? You're in Florida. And he's like, because it makes you have more endurance. Yeah, it's better for hunting. I didn't know.

[Wayne Tanner]

That's cool.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And it's pretty cool. Like Tom Miranda.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Old school. Okay.

[Cam Canaday]

It's cool to introduce all that stuff in the hunting. Like if you're that passionate, you know, I did this.

[Joe Rogan]

I need an edge.

[Cam Canaday]

I got the ice bath at home. I did the hypoxic wellness, which is. I think I was telling Joe about this where I decked the home gym out. So it's basically a gym at altitude now. And that's what I was using before I got to Utah. And it actually made me be able to go from the bottom of the mountain to the top without stopping to take a breath, which is incredible. So.

[Wayne Tanner]

So it's altitude training.

[Cam Canaday]

It's altitude tent or. No, it's the whole room. So. But this, a company called Leonics, now they make say it could be the size of this and it would have red light therapy in here, it would have a sauna in here, it would have the hypoxic conditioning in here. So basically pumping nitrogen into the room to drop the oxygen levels. And so you could have gym equipment in here, you could sit in here and read a book. But the way that I've got it set out, I'm doing a workout in it now, and I've got a target in the corner. I literally shoot my bow in there at like 14, 500ft and then to step out of that and like, I live at sea level back in Australia. To step out of that at sea level, like, you feel.

[Wayne Tanner]

Oh, I bet.

[Cam Canaday]

Absolutely incredible.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, I bet.

[Cam Canaday]

And then that's. So what was Utah? 8,000.

[Joe Rogan]

Sometimes seven something.

[Cam Canaday]

Seven or 8,000ft.

[Joe Rogan]

And I probably nine at the highest.

[Cam Canaday]

Okay. And I'd be training at 14, 500. So I, I felt amazing when I went there.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it was awesome technology that is.

[Wayne Tanner]

That is useful because, I mean, that's what athletes do. They go to train high altitude training in the mountains and then they come down to lower elevation where there's more. More oxygen and there's more oxygen available to push themselves harder. So their body's used to that. It created more red blood cells, essentially. I think it's like, like a, a natural. I think that's what EPO they say does. So it's a natural way to do that. And Yeah, I mean, so it just.

[Joe Rogan]

Doesn'T stay very long, is that right? Yeah. Only stays in your system. Like your, your system eventually acclimates to whatever the altitude is. But before it does that, you have a nice advantage. Like there's. That's why they time is. I think it's like a couple weeks.

[Wayne Tanner]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

I think that's why they probably put the Olympic training center in Colorado Springs. You know, they want these people to train it. It totally makes sense. Yeah, totally makes sense. Train an altitude.

[Cam Canaday]

I found mentally I felt a lot better too. And then. So now I've done a bit of reading up on it and it's like the plasticity of the brain improves under those conditions as well. And Then.

[Joe Rogan]

Makes sense. Adapters or die.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah. I just feel so happy afterwards. I was sleeping in there in the end because I was trying to fit in as much, which can be detrimental as well. Like, you don't want to overdo do it.

[Wayne Tanner]

Oh.

[Cam Canaday]

But I was sleeping in there in the end, and I'd wake up in the morning and I was just like on a high for like four or five hours.

[Wayne Tanner]

Why. Why would they say not to overdo it? Because when they go train at altitude, they're up there the whole time just.

[Joe Rogan]

To get acclimated, I bet. Initially.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Don't overdo it initially.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I also think that a part of the, you know, it'd be like overdoing your muscles if you just kept doing arms every single day, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Wait a minute. That's what he does.

[Cam Canaday]

You can't help it, can you?

[Joe Rogan]

That bike that you sent me is awesome, by the way, because I, I love the, you know, the Airdyne bikes. I love those things. It's like my favorite conditioning thing. And I love the Echo bike from Rogue, but I think that one's even.

[Cam Canaday]

Superior to the Bionic bike. How consistent the. The drag is on it.

[Joe Rogan]

But even more importantly, it's harder. Yeah, it's harder to pull back. Like, the Echo bike is easier to pull back. That one has more resistance.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And when I, when I first started using that one, I. I was like, whoa, this one's tough. Like, whatever you're getting out of the Echo bike or the Airdyne bike, that's that times two.

[Cam Canaday]

Really? Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

What is it called again?

[Cam Canaday]

Stepper step?

[Joe Rogan]

It's stpr, right?

[Cam Canaday]

Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah, that thing rules. Yeah, that thing rules.

[Cam Canaday]

I'll get them the deck. Yeah. Because all their equipment's like that.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that, that bike is the. Because. And it's also got different grips, different hand grips and different seat.

[Cam Canaday]

I'm changing that up.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you can, you can mix it up. You can mix it up. Picks up where the resistance is coming from.

[Cam Canaday]

I actually lift the seat right up so it's nearly like I'm in the standing position. Oh, like this.

[Joe Rogan]

Nice.

[Cam Canaday]

With the seat up and the legs are right down. And it burns me. Yeah, absolutely burns me. I love it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's a. It's a great low impact cardio, too. I mean, really conditions the out of your legs and your lungs and it's, you know, you're not taking any pounding while you're doing it. I think it's hard.

[Cam Canaday]

I'm stoked you like it.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, I love it. Yeah. Because when it was in there, I didn't know when it had gotten delivered. And I was like, oh, what the is this? And then when it was in the gym, I started trying. The moment I got on I was.

[Cam Canaday]

Like, oh, and it's easy to crank up too. Like it's right there. There's no reaching down the handles right there.

[Joe Rogan]

It's good. There's so many different things you could use now. But what you were, what were you saying about earlier? It's like you, you have the opportunity now to be better than you've ever been before.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because of all this, you know, hormone optimization, the ways to well stuff peptides, nutrition understanding exercise science and then equipment fitment is you could condition your body and you could be in amazing shape at 58, which is crazy.

[Cam Canaday]

The knowledge of knowing that's actually out there is, I'm grateful for.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

Just the knowledge and knowing that we can be better every day, we can be healthier physically and mentally, it's great.

[Wayne Tanner]

And I see, I do see a lot of doctors who kind of on BPC or on stem cells and I'm like, like whatever you're saying, cool. But I've never felt better.

[Cam Canaday]

So there's a lot of doctors, you.

[Wayne Tanner]

Could say it doesn't work.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, there's a lot of doctors. I've talked to doctors that on it and I had this one conversation with a doctor that I like, he's a nice guy and he was like, I think it's a lot of placebo. And I go, there's peer reviewed studies on BBC 157. Like you're saying this and you haven't done the research. Like this is not, not debatable. Like BPC 157, there's a very clear pathway. They show why it works. It naturally exists in the human body and you can enhance your body's ability to recover from soft tissue injuries. It's important, it's good, it's good for you. Like the idea that somehow or another this is horseshit. Like no, you're horseshit. You're spitting out some nonsense. And the problem is a lot of doctors, in particular a lot of very educated people that are specialists in whatever they're in. Like you got a doctor, you went to school. School, you got a rather you got a medical degree, you went to school, you did your residency, you want to be the one who has all the information when someone comes along and says actually a better way to do it is through stem cells. Like stem cells yeah, like what do you.

[Cam Canaday]

What do you mean?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, stem cells. How much do you know? There's near read. Neil Reardon has written many papers on stem cells. Like, there's a documented efficacy on neurological conditions, soft tissue injuries, joint rehabilitation. It's not guessing. Like for a doctor to say, I wouldn't mess with stem cells. It's unproven. The FDA hasn't approved it. It's because the FDA sucks. It doesn't mean that it doesn't work. Like, there's scientists that are studying this stuff and there's people that are using it. You got shit, tons of anecdotal evidence from world class athletes that'll tell you the benefits of it. There's a reason why the UFC has partnered up with CPI down in Mexico. But they have to go to fucking Mexico to do this stuff, you know, which is crazy.

[Cam Canaday]

But now here and available.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but ways to. Wells Brigham in particular is really working hard to make all that stuff available in the United States. And it's only good. It's good for everybody. It's not bad for medicine. People are always going to need doctors.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's crazy. It's just more advancement and the problem is it's going to for sure it's going to interfere with. People want to sell you pain pills pills. It's going to interfere with people that want to do unnecessary surgeries.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And they're. Unfortunately, that's a real thing.

[Wayne Tanner]

It's where they make their, their money. And people like to say that, well, it's not FDA approved. And I'm like, have you seen the. That is FDA approved.

[Cam Canaday]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

It's like that. That doesn't mean anything to me. I might not want to take it.

[Joe Rogan]

If it is something like 30% of all medications to get approved by the FDA get pulled.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah. It's just like that doesn't mean shit to me.

[Joe Rogan]

What is the percentage Find out. Put that in there.

[Wayne Tanner]

You look at all the fucking poisonous food they sell us, which is FDA approved. Like so that's your argument and not.

[Joe Rogan]

Approved in other countries? Yeah, like other countries have banned it. Outlawed it. We're like, fine, that's fine. It makes your Cheerios.

[Cam Canaday]

Saying the difference in ingredients between countries and it's like crazy.

[Wayne Tanner]

America has.

[Joe Rogan]

So Cheerios is a bad example. Froot Loops is the best example. Like the fact that like they were like, oh, we can't do that. Well, you do it in Canada. You sell the. The same stuff with different dye with natural dyes.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not as bright, but it also doesn't kill you. It's not poison. It's just so gross. They just, they're so bought and paid for. And here's the real problem. A lot of these, they go from being working at the FDA to cushy jobs in these major corporations.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like they have this golden parachute. 100%, 2.9% of FDA approved new drugs from 1980 to 2021 were withdrawn specifically for safety reasons. Out of 1,310 total approvals were 210. 16% were discontinued for overall various reasons, including marketing factors. It's that low? I thought it was higher than that.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, but look at down below where it says antibiotics face higher rates at 41%.

[Cam Canaday]

Whoa.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. So all told, I wonder what the pharmaceutical drugs that get pulled are.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And antibiotics 41 is nuts.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, well. And 23% of oncology, I mean, indications withdrawn. Wow. It's like, what the fuck? I mean, we're just like guessing on this shit.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's not guessing. It's like one of the problems with some of these studies is they're getting information from the pharmaceutical drug companies themselves. Like, I had this lawyer on that was explaining to me how he litigated a case against pharmaceutical drug companies and that one of the issues that they found was that these guys would run 10 tests and they would find no efficacy. But so they would rig a test in a very biased. They show the smallest amount of statistical significance and then they would say it's statistically significant and they would push that. And their only motivation was profit. They weren't saying, this is going to cure cancer, this is going to stop blindness. No, it's like, we can make money on this. And there's even one of the cases with Vioxx where there was emails exchanged with the pharmaceutical drug companies talking about all the problems that it was going to cause. But. But we think we will do well with this, which is crazy.

[Wayne Tanner]

I remember we looked that one up before. It's like it's. Yeah, I mean, it's nuts how this, this medicine stuff works, but it's like there's still like with COVID vaccine still things coming out. I saw last night on TV about in this, in a small number of cases it can cause heart, some or whatever the fuck. But we've seen a number of these announcements, like all these finally this negative stuff about the vaccine, did it do any positive? Probably not, but all this fucking negative. And that was just coming out years.

[Joe Rogan]

Later and we were bombarded with propaganda that it was necessary to stay alive. Like there was one. I think it was the Atlantic that had one headline that said if you're unvaccinated, it might be time to make your end of life will. And then the same. Same magazine, years later, Covid vaccines may cause heart damage. Same exact magazine. Fuck you. Because you guys only said that because you were being pressured by your advertisers or you were being pressured by culture or society. You didn't look at the history of pharmaceutical medication and how much. They're full of shit. They've paid some of the biggest criminal fines in U.S. history because they fucking lied. And the same companies are still selling you. You think they came to Jesus? Do you think they're. They're different now and they don't just try to make money?

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And if you question that, you're a conspiracy theorist and a kook and you're taking horse medication. Like it's. It's so infuriating how many people buy into stuff.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And how they don't even get in trouble for lying to everybody for so long. For years. Just lies and propaganda. Face no recourse. Not, not. Not financial, not social.

[Wayne Tanner]

Nobody's responsible.

[Joe Rogan]

Not reputational. No recourse.

[Cam Canaday]

That's disgusting.

[Wayne Tanner]

I'm still. I'm still waiting for Fauci to be strung up.

[Joe Rogan]

It can't be. He got a giant pardon by the auto pen.

[Wayne Tanner]

Well, but what's. What's so frustrating too is that. So they basically said, hey, you have to take this poison or you're going to lose your job.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Wayne Tanner]

Or you won't be able to do this or you won't be able to do that. So take this poison. Poison. But then something that we've shown works. Stem cell bpc. That's what they'll on. It's just like what.

[Joe Rogan]

They're just worried about losing control and they're worried about losing profits and they're worried about compounding pharmacies making this stuff. And they want peptides. They want all this stuff, but they want to be able to market it only under their brand. They want to own it. You know, they want to have patents for all this stuff. And that's where the real problem comes. A lot of these really effects effective things they can't patent.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right. It's a. Yeah. All tied to the money. I have a code for peptides that weighs 12. I wish I could remember it. Somebody could. Somebody could use it.

[Joe Rogan]

It's probably. Is it Cam.

[Wayne Tanner]

It's probably.

[Joe Rogan]

You don't know what your code is.

[Wayne Tanner]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

Really? Should I call Brigham? Let's end this podcast. Well, you might. I don't want to bother him. We'll figure it out. Figure it out.

[Wayne Tanner]

I'll put it on Camel.

[Joe Rogan]

Put it on his Instagram.

[Wayne Tanner]

My Instagram story. I won't put it on an actual post. It's not that important.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, well put it on whatever. Do whatever the you want to do. I don't care.

[Wayne Tanner]

Well, okay, so here's what I wanted to end the podcast with. What's one thing you learned this season? Bow hunting. Or wait, is this my call to how we end it?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you can do it. You can do it.

[Cam Canaday]

You run the show.

[Joe Rogan]

What I learned this season? Oh, I always learn one thing every year. How important. Leg conditioning is so fucking important. Yeah, God, maybe the mo, especially elk hunting is the most important thing. Leg conditioning is everything. If you can't get up those mountains and, and be fit and, and be able to do it over and over and over again over like five days of miles and miles and miles, like no matter what I did, I need to do more. That's what I learned that for sure. That's a big one.

[Wayne Tanner]

And you can never be in too good a shape.

[Joe Rogan]

Never be in too good a shape, Never been to. Never have your legs conditioned enough. And you can over practice archery. I learned that too because I started developing this low back problem that I've been going to this trigger point massage. I told you, I went today. Oh my God.

[Wayne Tanner]

Helps.

[Joe Rogan]

I get so scared every time I go into this guy's office. He fucking tortures me. It's horrible. Especially when he does the it band with his fucking knuckles and his elbow. It's horrible. But it's super effective. I just, I got, essentially I got tendonitis in my lower back.

[Wayne Tanner]

Overuse injury.

[Joe Rogan]

Just overuse use because I'm pulling back an 80 pound bow a hundred times over and over and over again, days after days after. And every time it would hurt, I would be an idiot and I would go, ah, walk through it.

[Wayne Tanner]

And you're obsessive.

[Joe Rogan]

Got bad. Yeah, I'm a little obsessive. It got bad.

[Wayne Tanner]

But that's why you're great at things too.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, there's a, it's a double edged sword, but you got to learn. Like you were talking about not overdoing it in the, the hypoxic thing. You got to learn. And I don't learn always, but I try to try to. I learned those things. Yeah, those, those are huge.

[Wayne Tanner]

So. So okay, what are you gonna do.

[Joe Rogan]

For your Legs then continue not stopping with leg conditioning ever until September.

[Wayne Tanner]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Like the. Like there was a lot of times, one thing is waist wells helped me. I got a weird left knee. But the latest round of stem cells that I had did real. They did a real improvement. Like, I really noticed that it. And I'm protecting it. I'm not doing anything stupid in the meantime, you know, like no jiu jitsu, like no getting heel hooked. Nothing. Nothing that's going to aggravate it.

[Wayne Tanner]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And just build up my conditioning and maintain it over the year. That's. That's a big one.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah, that's a good.

[Joe Rogan]

What did you learn, Cam Haines?

[Wayne Tanner]

Me?

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Wayne Tanner]

It's Adam's turn.

[Cam Canaday]

Oh, you got lost. I think I learned a lot this season, but. But just like more about life than just in a bow hunting scenario. But I think the biggest thing that I took away from it is health, as in mental and physical and that you can always, like, step it up and you can always be better. And I think, like, I just, you know, like family life, whatever excuses I can come up with, you know, business and not having the time to put in the extra. But finding the extra time because of how valuable it is and what the payoff in that is, you know, being physically healthy makes it a lot easier to be mentally healthy because you went.

[Joe Rogan]

For a while where you really didn't work out much.

[Cam Canaday]

I didn't. I just, I. I bow hunted a lot, you know, and I was on the tools a lot, like being in, you know, the building game. But it's not. That's different. It's a different sort of health, you know, whereas in actually targeting you know, losing weight, weight, eating clean, you know, because it's not just about the gym. It's like everything that else. Else that goes with it. So I learned to eat a lot more cleaner. I started doing the hypoxic wellness studio. And I think a combination of those things and seeing the payoff in two weeks, you know, not talking months, it was like in two weeks, I could see a massive difference. When you lined everything up. Eating healthy, that made the mountains a lot, a lot more easier and a lot more enjoyable. I'm not saying I did more of the mountains. I think I only covered the same sort of miles, but it was just a lot more enjoyable. And that example that I kept saying to you, like, going from the bottom of the mountain to the top without having four or five breaks in between when you're like. And hurting, it was just a lot more enjoyable. I'd stop. You know, and it's just like I wasn't even taking deep breaths. I was already, already scanning the mountains for a bull, you know. And I think it just become a lot more enjoyable and then getting the headspace from that too. Whether it's from me feeling better, whether it's from better plasticity of the mind, I just. Overall, I just felt a lot better. A lot more connected, a lot more grateful as well as in. Because you feel good.

[Wayne Tanner]

Yeah.

[Cam Canaday]

So it's easier to think of things more and be more grateful.

[Wayne Tanner]

I like that. That's. Well, what I took from that is you said climbing the mountain is more enjoyable. To me, that means you're going to make better decisions. You're going to be when you're hunting. Because when we're fatigued, there's this famous saying, fatigue makes cowards of us all. But it also. We make poor decisions when we're fatigued. So you being at a higher level just physically allows you to hunt better is what I always think. Because we're not taking shortcuts, we're making better decisions. We're reading the animal better. We're. Instead of like looking for a. Because we're gas so we don't want to kick things or looking at the ground more, instead our heads up and we're reading the situation better. So it's just results in just better hunting. And you enjoy it more. Yeah, definitely. I love that. What I learned is that I think I. I enjoy the success of others. And this has been reinforced, divorced over the years. But this year specifically, I enjoy being part of the success of others and taking others like new hunters and just sharing our lifestyle with them and just what's important to me. And it gives me a chance to share. When you talk to somebody on the phone, you're not like getting deep, but when you're on a hunt, you get that opportunity and they're more. I don't know if they have to listen because they can't go anywhere or it's just they're more. More interested in listening. But it allows me to really, like, share why nature in the mountains and what I do is important. And it seems like it really resonates with people. And it's just that has given me so much strength and I don't know, and purpose. It's just sharing our lifestyle with others. That's what I've learned that that drives me.

[Cam Canaday]

You've been like that for a long time too. Like that first buffalo hunt that we went on back in Australia and you killed a bull, and it was like, I was as happy for you as if I killed it. And then when I killed my bull, it might have been the last day. Like, it was the same. It was all, like, hugs. And that was awesome. And I could see it glowing in your face. You know, that you want you. You relish in other people's success as well.

[Joe Rogan]

Gentlemen, this was a awesome. Thank you. Always great to hang out with you guys. Pleasure. Love you, too. All right, bye, everybody.