Summary7 min read

The Joe Rogan Experience #2488 – James McCann

Date: April 23, 2026
Guests: James McCann (comic), Tony Hinchcliffe (comic, co-host)
Notable topics: Comedy scene in the US and Australia, culture shock, migration struggles, the future of AI and entertainment, homelessness and urban decline, history, geopolitics, and more.

Episode Overview

This episode takes a deeply personal and wide-ranging look at comedian James McCann’s journey from Australia to the US, his struggles with career, family, and cultural transition, and offers a candid exploration into the comedy industry in both countries. Alongside co-host Tony Hinchcliffe, the conversation ricochets from the intricacies of stand-up scenes and industry gatekeeping to broader issues like homelessness, addiction, geopolitics, the progress and pitfalls of AI, and the continually shifting tides of entertainment and society.

Key Segments and Insights

1. James McCann’s Rough Landing in America

[00:41 – 07:37]

Background: James came to the U.S. to host a Catholic podcast, only to be fired mid-move with a wife and three kids ("As I packed up everything in Adelaide... I got fired."). The company paid his rent for three months in Steubenville, Ohio, while he figured his next steps.
Comic’s Anxiety: Arriving with “no job, three kids, terrified in the snow,” he stumbled into Austin and, via a friend’s encouragement, auditioned at Rogan’s Mothership club—without realizing he’d effectively been “passed.”
He describes Appalachian Ohio as both beautiful and “abandoned,” painting a vivid scene of poverty, addiction, and hope.
- Quote: (James) "It was the most terrified I’ve ever been in my life." [02:22]

2. America vs. Australia—The Comedy Industry Compared

[10:18 – 16:42]

Australian system is “festival-driven” and run by tight industry gatekeepers—hard for newcomers or outsiders ("industry driven... TV people are deciding who’s succeeding").
US offers more open competition—headliners can directly choose who they support, and there’s a tradition of comics bringing up other comics on the road.
Tony shares his own “lucky” break in Boston, getting on TV very early, but stresses that in the U.S., talent and work ethic generally win out, unless derailed by health, addiction, or relationships.
Discussion of “undiscovered geniuses” in America vs. Australia and the challenge of bad self-marketing.
Quote: (Tony) “Our ideology is, are you funny?” [95:21]

3. The State of American Comedy Cities

[18:18 – 21:04]

LA is described as having a “top-down vibe,” with clubs’ atmospheres deeply affected by who’s in the green room ("It always felt weird... we're all out here now.").
Austin is viewed as energetic and hopeful—a city where new comics can break through and be paid.
A discussion of “the rift” between LA, NYC, and Austin, sometimes fueling competitiveness (“the rift can motivate people…”).

4. Parenting, Identity, and Drive

[10:18 – 13:09]

McCann credits having kids with fueling his ambition, contrasting his earlier, more aimless approach to comedy with the necessity to provide.
The challenges of moving internationally with family—education, finances, roots, and lacking support networks.
Tony gently teases James about anxieties but acknowledges the unique drive that comes with being a parent.
- Quote: (Tony) “People who do not have children do not understand the drive that it gives you.” [07:43]

5. Societal Realities—Homelessness, Drugs, and Urban Decline

[55:03 – 61:07]

Both reflect on scenes of homelessness and drug addiction in urban U.S., contrasting it with meth culture in Australia.
Skid Row in LA is revealed as “50 to 54 blocks” with tens of thousands of homeless, not the single street it once was.
The cycle of failed policy, addiction, and “stakeholders” with little incentive to fix homelessness.
McCann recounts his uncomfortable experiences on Greyhound buses and at shelters.
- Quote: (James) "People were spitting on the ground… it was the most upsetting…"[05:22]

6. Gatekeeping, the Decline of “Woke” Comedy, and Paths Forward

[80:05 – 97:11]

Conversation about how both in Australia (comedy festivals) and at American TV/networks, administrators, not audiences, often wield power.
Increasing recognition that “official” TV comedy and late-night shows are losing cultural impact (“Tonight Show’s winding down…”)
The rise of YouTube and independent specials as gatekeepers lose relevance.
Quote: (Tony) “You can't work with people that aren't creatives... they'll torch their own art.” [81:19]

7. AI, Automation, and the Future of Creativity

[85:33 – 141:07]

Both muse anxiously and humorously about the onrush of AI. James is spooked; Tony is fatalistic: “We're the last thing it's going to take away—comedy.”
Comment on AI music, automation of jobs, and the possible “worship” of AI as a kind of religion.
Discussion about a future where people may “worship” AI like gods, as entertainers, and as therapists—“People believe in L Ron Hubbard, you don’t think they’ll believe in AI?” [138:36]
Apprehension over centralized control, loss of freedom, and digital authoritarianism versus the American idea of individuality.

8. Geopolitics: Israel, Iran, and Scandal

[108:05 – 120:05]

The conversation turns to recent headlines: protests in Israel, Netanyahu’s controversial judicial reforms, Iran’s internal politics and women’s rights, and manipulated narratives around extremist groups in the U.S.
Questions about leadership, media manipulation, and transparency—whether governments can ever be truly accountable.

9. Comedy’s Unique Culture and the Importance of Scene

[153:03 – End]

McCann on the absence of proper clubs in Adelaide, and why cities like Austin, New York, and London matter for comedy—they mix new talent, provide stage time, and nurture a creative scene.
Tony and James praise the culture at clubs like the Mothership where “talent wins,” contrasting it with parochial or gatekept systems elsewhere.
James credits community, mentorship, and generosity among American comics for his renewed optimism.

Notable Quotes

On the nature of American comedy scenes:
"Our ideology is, are you funny? ...It doesn't matter ...Just work on your stuff... Come up with great bits." — Tony Hinchcliffe [95:15-96:13]
On cultural and family pressures:
"You could go, ‘woe is me,' but when you're a father and a husband... people who do not have children do not understand the drive that it gives you…" — Tony Hinchcliffe [07:43]
On losing faith in institutionally-sanctioned comedy:
“I was watching...people who... it's not mainstream because the audiences are tiny by comparison... the jokes are so mild and so... But then the audience is like, supposedly there's a lot of women in the audience...They sound crazy.” — James McCann [96:42]
On AI and the future:
“It's going to be smarter than any human being that's ever lived times 10. And it's going to make better versions... and it's going to keep going.” — Tony Hinchcliffe [136:28]
On migration and belonging:
"America is maybe the most welcoming country to immigrants in the world. But... I'll never get to be an American." — James McCann [150:32]
On helping other comedians:
"It's really selfish to be generous, because it feels great. It's wonderful to help people. Feels fucking awesome. And it's great to see people thrive and take off." — Tony Hinchcliffe [94:47]

Memorable Moments & Miscellany

James’ dire move story: The fired Catholic podcast job leaving him “with three kids, in the snow, no job, and not enough money to go home.” [01:42]
Australian meth vs. American heroin: Surprised at the passivity of American heroin users as compared to “skinny, shirtless men on the bus” in Australia. [61:07]
Riff on wild pigs and helicopter hunting in Texas and Australia: "They Gatling gun them from the sky." — James McCann / Tony Hinchcliffe [26:23-26:38]
On hitting the launching pad: Tony tells James he left “at the exact wrong time—you’re literally on the launching pad.” [151:27]
Cosby’s infamous “barbecue sauce” bit resurfaced in chilling retrospect. [164:59]

Timestamps for Key Discussions

00:41 – 07:37 | James’ move to the U.S., early struggles, and arriving at Mothership
10:18 – 16:42 | US vs. Australian comedy industries
18:18 – 21:04 | Comedy fraternity and city culture
55:03 – 61:07 | Homelessness, drug use in US cities, societal failures
80:05 – 97:11 | Woke comedy, TV ratings, indie vs. network comedy
85:33 – 141:07 | AI’s rise—music, jobs, existential risks, and culture
108:05 – 120:05 | Israel, Iran, and modern scandals
153:03 – 155:09 | The wave of Australian comics, nurturing global talent

Tone and Style

The tone is candid, irreverent, at times confessional and vulnerable, mixed with the characteristic quick wit and topical spontaneity of stand-up comics. Tangents abound, but always loop back to big, existential or creative questions: why do we do what we do, who gets to succeed, and what does the future hold?

For Listeners New to the Show

If you haven’t heard this episode: it’s less an interview than a deep, organic conversation—a comic’s-eye view of the world’s state in 2026 and the never-ending hustle for stage time, relevance, and “making it” somewhere new. With doses of brutal honesty and heart, it delivers both inside baseball for comedy fans and provocative musings on broader societal challenges.

Related:

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Transcript1,782 lines

[00:02]
James McCann
Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Thank you for having me back.
[00:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Good to see you, my brother.
[00:16]
James McCann
How are you?
[00:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Always great to see you. I'm good. It was fun having you at the club Mouse.
[00:21]
James McCann
I was terr. I was terrified.
[00:23]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You just look like you were back.
[00:24]
James McCann
No, I thought. I thought, that's it. I've been away for too long. I'm gonna suck. None of the new stuff's gonna work. They'll see me. They'll go, he was wrong to come back. Fuck him off. It was so nice. It was so nice you were telling the story.
[00:37]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I said, hold these thoughts.
[00:38]
James McCann
Yeah. I didn't know. You didn't. I didn't know we'd never spoken about it.
[00:41]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No. Tell me the story.
[00:42]
James McCann
I. Well, that's why I came to America to start is I got offered a job hosting a Catholic podcast. And they fired me as I packed up everything in Adelaide. This is like two and a bit years ago. I had the kids and the wife, and on the way to America, I got fired. And they said, we'll still pay your rent. It's in Steubenville, Ohio. Beautiful Appalachian town just outside of Pittsburgh. And, yeah, it's where we were three months. I was there.
[01:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So what did they see that they fired you for?
[01:10]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Oh, a lot.
[01:11]
James McCann
They made a compilation video. The guy who showed. They were right to fire me.
[01:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They were right because it was a
[01:18]
James McCann
good, clean Catholic podcast. And then the business manager was like. There was a sketch about stabbing someone in the throat with an AIDS needle. They're like. He uses the word can't all the time. They're like, this is a sponsorship nightmare. Get him out. So I said, okay. But they still said, we'll pay your rent for three months and you can figure something out. You still got a visa. And I was terrified. I was just in the snow with
[01:40]
Tony Hinchcliffe
kids and a wife, three kids, no job.
[01:42]
James McCann
I didn't have the money to go back home.
[01:44]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, my God.
[01:44]
James McCann
I couldn't afford to go back home.
[01:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, my God.
[01:47]
James McCann
And I didn't know that I had been passed at the mothership. Cause I didn't know how the system worked. So on the way in to go to Steubenville, where I was like, I'll figure something out. I stopped in at Austin to see Shane. Shane said, go and do the Mothership open mic. I did it. Adam Egot said, if you're ever in town, come back. We'll pay for spots. I didn't know that meant I was passed. I didn't know I could work here. I just thought he was like, I could audition again. And then so I had three confronting months in the snow. Beautiful part of the world. It was the most terrified I've ever been in my.
[02:19]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
He says that as an Australian. That's from. From Ohio.
[02:22]
James McCann
No. I love.
[02:23]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
That's the most beautiful part of the world.
[02:24]
James McCann
I loved it. I wish I went back and watched that. Wild whites of West Virginia.
[02:27]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[02:27]
James McCann
That's where it looks exactly like that.
[02:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, that area is gorgeous.
[02:31]
James McCann
It's God's country. But also so abandoned by like, the potholes are crazy. I saw real heroin addicts. I'd never really seen heroin addicts before. Just sleepy people. I saw street prostitutes. That's still going on.
[02:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And this is a small town, right?
[02:49]
James McCann
This is a small town. This is. I went there. There are Catholics have moved there to try and like, fix it. It was where Dean Martin was from. The Wu Tang Clan kind of started out there.
[03:00]
Tony Hinchcliffe
There's Staten Island.
[03:01]
James McCann
No. Yes. But I think it's like the RZA's auntie lived there and they moved out there. And then they got involved in rap in the Pittsburgh.
[03:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I gotta ask. Rizza's on real soon.
[03:11]
James McCann
I believe I'm right about that. They don't have a mural for them. Wow. But it's great. There's. Yeah. There's a lot of Catholic content creators there. And they're trying to take over town. I went there originally cause New Polity is like my favorite magazine. And I got to meet the guys who made it. And I was so excited.
[03:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So how did they hire you? Wu Tang's RZA found a chance in Steubenville.
[03:35]
James McCann
Wow. And then they all come over to visit him.
[03:38]
Tony Hinchcliffe
He discussed a largely undocumented era of his life in which Pittsburgh played a role.
[03:44]
James McCann
Wow. And that's one of the first conversations we had. I was like, you said something about Pittsburgh that wasn't flattering. I said, I love Pittsburgh. You're like, you don't know anything. You're a foreigner. You don't know anything about America. Pittsburgh is a horrible place. I was like, I don't know. I had a nice time there. I thought it was good.
[04:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's just a little depressing. See, like the thing about a lot of those sort of industrial kind of town. So there's not a ton of options for people. No Pittsburgh more so than, like the place that you were in. But like, when you get to a place where there's not a lot of options. And then you see real poverty. Like this is poverty with no solutions. You know what I mean? Not Pittsburgh. You know, Pittsburgh.
[04:28]
James McCann
Oh, no, just outside of Pittsburgh.
[04:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I was more fun with you.
[04:31]
James McCann
No, I saw. I saw things in. In West Virginia that were pretty confronting and like, you know, that are like caked and some of it's great. Some of the things from the poverty are wonderful. Drive through cigarette shop gummies. I loved having drive through cigarettes. Just like trying to get the kids to sleep. My wife's upset because I got her in a foreign like, again. She never signed up. Let's move to America. She was like, we'll go for three months, right? And it was like, oh, fuck, I'm unemployed. I better quickly figure out how to be a stand up comedian. I was busing out of Steubenville. I was like, I caught the. I went. I got. Someone gave me a lift to Pittsburgh. This is when I saw the worst stuff. I got a lift to Pittsburgh and then I caught the Greyhound from Pittsburgh to Cleveland to open for Sam Tallent, who let me open. Who. Unbelievable that he let me open for.
[05:20]
Tony Hinchcliffe
He's the best.
[05:20]
James McCann
I'd met him in Australia. Yeah.
[05:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Such a good guy.
[05:22]
James McCann
And. But like that bus trip from Pittsburgh to Cleveland was. It was the most upsetting. Oh, man. I was. People were spitting on the ground at the bus station. Like an immigrant, like an illegal immigrant woman came and tried to give me a phone. I remember that vividly.
[05:38]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Give you a phone?
[05:39]
James McCann
She tried to give me a free phone. She's like, you can have this because she said, you're on benefits. Everyone on benefits gets a free phone. It was some, like, policy. She just assumed I was on benefits because I was at the Greyhound bus
[05:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
station and she was illegal.
[05:52]
James McCann
I don't know if she was illegal, but she had a strong accent and like a weird dress and a baby on her back. And a sack full of phones.
[05:59]
Tony Hinchcliffe
A sack full of phones.
[06:00]
James McCann
Like a sack of phones.
[06:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So she was somehow in charge of distributing free phones to people.
[06:05]
James McCann
I'll never truly know what that was about.
[06:07]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Boy, I would have investigated further.
[06:09]
James McCann
There was. I was scared. I was just scared. They were like huge African guys sitting on the ground.
[06:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Your phone.
[06:17]
James McCann
And then after that, I sat next to a guy who's having a full psychotic episode. I think we follow each other on Instagram now. He's gotten rid of his Instagram.
[06:24]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Really?
[06:25]
James McCann
But yeah, I mean, he told me the secrets about Chris Benoit, that he was a good man.
[06:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
The wrestler.
[06:30]
James McCann
He killed his family.
[06:31]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[06:31]
James McCann
But this guy tried to Tell me. He only. He was. I. It's like burnt. He said he only killed his family to send them to God. And you can't blame a man for that. All right, let's. This is only a three hour bus trip. We're gonna get through this. We're gonna be fine.
[06:44]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, boy.
[06:45]
James McCann
Oh, man. But I did. I did enjoy my time in that
[06:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
part of the world. Well, you probably enjoy it now that it's over, that you survived.
[06:52]
James McCann
You make a good point.
[06:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. Yeah. There's some things you asked me at the time. Yeah, there's some things that are not fun while they're happening, but are really fun once you got through it.
[07:01]
James McCann
I mean, I remember the people I met along the way. I remember driving to Austin and like, it was like spring was start. Like, the further south we got, the more lush it became. Yeah, it was like, fuck, I might be okay. And then someone let me stay in their house. I didn't have a house to stay in, so. A podcast listener's friend let us stay in there.
[07:22]
Tony Hinchcliffe
With your family?
[07:23]
James McCann
With my whole family. Let us house sit for them while they were in Japan.
[07:25]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, my God. That's crazy.
[07:28]
James McCann
The whole time it was like, if I don't get. If I don't get past it, the mothership. Now, I. I don't think people should come here and live in their cars with their family, but it does, you
[07:37]
Tony Hinchcliffe
know, Lights a fire under your ass. Worked well. That's the thing. It's like if you're forced into action.
[07:43]
James McCann
Yeah.
[07:43]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Like you had. No, not just yourself. Like, you could go, oh, woe is me. But when you're a father and a husband, you. You have children. Yeah. And people who do not have children do not understand the drive that it gives you to protect and care for those little people. It's kind of crazy. So if you'll find something. This episode is brought to you by Tovas. All right, guys, if you want boots that are made right, you gotta check out to Covis. Their western boots are sturdy and clearly built to last, but really sharp and premium, too. You don't need to break them in either. They're comfortable straight out of the box. And great boots for those summer concerts, weddings, work events, whatever. And they're versatile, too. You can wear them with jeans, dress them up or down, whatever you need to. Covis has all the classic leathers like cowhide and goat, but they've got all the exotics, too, for when you want to level up your look. If you've been thinking about your next pair of boots or hey, even your first pair. Go check out to Cova's in store or online@tocovas.com that's T E C O V A and right now get 10% off@tacovas.com Rogan when you sign up for email and texts, this episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. When you talk to someone really passionate about what they do, you can tell their face lights up. They get more animated. It even seems like they get more confident in. In my experience, those are some of the best conversations. You probably want the same type of people for your role, but it's hard to tell if someone's truly excited about the job from the resume alone. Unless you use ZipRecruiter. See what I'm talking about? For free at ZipRecruiter.com Rogan if you're a longtime listener, you know how quickly ZipRecruiter works to find qualified candidates for your role. Now, though, they're going the extra mile with a new feature that shows you qualified candidates who also are interested in your role. It's an even faster way to make sure that you're talking to the right people. Find candidates who really want your job on ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free@ziprecruiter.com Rogan that's ziprecruiter.com Rogan Meet your match at ZipRecruiter.
[10:18]
James McCann
Well, I don't understand how people do it without, like, I meet men who are really driven and motivated and they have no kids, but they're like every day they're working hard. I don't know what their motivation is. Before I had kids, just what are you buying?
[10:31]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They're in a. They're in a game. They're playing a game. Yeah, they're just playing this game of accumulate the most stuff, be able to brag about the most stuff you have,
[10:41]
James McCann
and so much rather lie down. I would rather not do anything if I had a choice.
[10:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But not really. Because you love doing comedy.
[10:48]
James McCann
I love doing comedy, but I never, before I had kids, was trying to do comedy that people would enjoy. Do you know what I mean?
[10:55]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I think that is also, though, because you were living in Australia and there's limited options. Right? Can you explain? Like, no, Australian system is very different.
[11:05]
James McCann
It's very.
[11:05]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's mostly festival driven.
[11:07]
James McCann
Festival driven. And it's to a much greater extent, I've thought about this it's like industry driven. Like industry. Yeah.
[11:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
We don't have which industry.
[11:16]
James McCann
Like managers and agents, which is one role in Australia. But they are deciding who's succeeding and TV people are deciding who's succeeding. Whereas, like in America, everybody is on the road, everybody has one or two openers. And there's a whole lineage of who brought who up in the business. Like Dan Sota had Nick Mullen, Tim Dillon and Shane Gillis opened for him. Like, those were his openers.
[11:42]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Right.
[11:44]
James McCann
And not because they were successful or someone wanted them to thrive. He just thought they were funny people.
[11:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right.
[11:48]
James McCann
And they got to be his openers. And you, I don't know who you were opening for, but you have people who come up and.
[11:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, I didn't get to really do it. I didn't have it that way. I do it that way, but I didn't have it that way. I didn't really come up with anybody where I open for anybody. But I had a very weird path to success.
[12:04]
James McCann
You also, you got to go to LA and just be in the million. Like there's a scene there, There's a lot of people.
[12:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I came out to LA with a job already.
[12:12]
James McCann
Okay.
[12:13]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I was on a sitcom already.
[12:14]
James McCann
You started in Boston, though?
[12:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yes, started in Boston. Look, it's very embarrassing how lucky I am. I'm like one of the luckiest people that's ever lived. Like, it's stumble upon success after success. So when I was six years into comedy, I was already on tv, So I was three years into comedy. I was basically barely getting paid. I was barely a professional. Like, I was getting some spots in bars and stuff like that. I was making money, but I was driving limousines. I was doing odd jobs, doing different things. And I was also still teaching at the time. I was still teaching taekwondo for the first maybe six months or so. When I was 21, I. I think I kept teaching and then I eventually had to quit because I realized I could not commit to doing both things. I don't want to half ass my students.
[13:10]
James McCann
Yeah.
[13:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And I don't want to. So. So for the first two, three years of comedy, barely, you know, I'm barely a comedian. Just. I'm trying, I'm trying to do it. I'm getting some laughs. Met a manager as an open micr and he brought me to New York and he's still my manager today.
[13:28]
James McCann
Wow.
[13:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
The best.
[13:29]
James McCann
I didn't know that.
[13:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, it's total luck. Total.
[13:32]
James McCann
You're also a super handsome guy. I've seen, I've seen You then I was boy pretty. You look like a fucking different person, first of all, not worse. It is crazy. But also a lot of those comics you started with, who maybe took longer, I won't say hideous, but they don't. They didn't look well.
[13:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That definitely helped me get on television. It definitely helped me get on television. So I did the MTV half hour Comedy Hour in 1993, I believe it was. And next, you know, I had a development deal. Next thing you know, I was on a sitcom and living out here.
[14:01]
James McCann
I mean, that's fast. But do you think it doesn't happen for people? Do you think there's anyone in America who has a good work ethic and is really talented that it doesn't work out for in comedy or does it work out.
[14:12]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You'd have to have a health issue. Health issues. Or a really horrible relationship. Those things could do you in.
[14:18]
James McCann
Or, like, you could have a drug problem.
[14:19]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, that'll do you in.
[14:20]
James McCann
Gamble your money way.
[14:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That could do you into. Yeah, yeah. There's a bunch of things that can do you in.
[14:25]
James McCann
But it's crazy like, that there are, like, not a lot of undiscovered geniuses in America in the same way. Like, people will want to make money off of you if you've got it.
[14:35]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. But there's some people that are just really horrible at marketing. Like Brian Holtzman, for instance. Yeah, right.
[14:42]
James McCann
We.
[14:42]
Tony Hinchcliffe
We had to kind of like force Brian Holtzman into the modern era.
[14:47]
James McCann
Yes.
[14:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Like, and he's always been a comics comic, and he's always been a guy that we would all sit in the back of the room at the. At the store and watch. But he was always getting these terrible spots. And it wasn't until we broke. He never went on the road. Everyone and I started out together. So at the store together in 94, we're both like. I think he came in 93, and I came a year later.
[15:10]
James McCann
And he was working for, like, Pan Am or something.
[15:12]
Tony Hinchcliffe
He was a dog catcher for a while. Yeah, he was a. I think he might have been a meter maid.
[15:17]
James McCann
Is he here at the moment? I haven't seen him yet.
[15:19]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yes, he's here all the time.
[15:20]
James McCann
Okay. He lives.
[15:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I don't know if he goes back and forth, but he. He lives out here all the time. He's the.
[15:27]
James McCann
I went to church with him. I don't know even if I should tell this story, but we went to church together once, and it was really lovely. He took me out for breakfast afterwards. Cause he's Catholic and it Was so funny. Cause the priest at the end gave the announcements. And one of the things he was like, they're doing a parish. They're doing. What do you call it, Like a talent show for everybody. He's just announcing this to the whole, like 300 people. And Brian goes there every week and they go. So if anyone's got a skill, if anyone's a juggler, anyone's a comedian, come and do that for the talent show for everybody. And he's. He gave no impression that he would be doing it. But I. You fucking spoon face Japs. I think he would be terrified and upset if he had brought that. He's the sweetest man. I don't want to give that away if people don't know he's a jack. He's a lovely man.
[16:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
He's a great guy. In real life. He always was. Always was. Like, I've known him forever. So we were so. He's what I would say is like an undiscovered genius. Because he was a guy that's just fucking killing it. But never went on the road. He only worked the store. I rarely saw him even at, like, the Laugh Factory or the Improv. I don't know if I could ever recall seeing him at those places.
[16:32]
James McCann
But he had to consciously make the decision not to go on the road.
[16:36]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, it's hard because it's not offered to you. You know, it's like, how do you do it? If you just do all your sets at the store, you kind of have to have someone take you with them. Right. So what happened with me is I mostly did the road around New York and Connecticut. So when I moved to New York in, I guess a 91ish. Yeah, so probably like 91ish. And so when I moved there, the real money, like to be able to pay bills was in the road. It was not in New York City. New York City did not pay very well. You can get a lot of spots. But also I was really new, so maybe I couldn't have gotten a lot of spots, but I could get a lot of spots doing gigs for, like, John Schuler. He had a whole Connecticut run that you could do. There were great gigs. They pay like 300 bucks a night. Or you could do gonzo at a bunch in New Jersey, and those paid really well.
[17:28]
James McCann
Did this collapse at some point?
[17:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, there's still probably some sort of a network, but there was like, roadshows.
[17:34]
James McCann
There's a. Louis has a story on someone's podcast about, like, crashing his motorcycle and Then like a bubble bursting. I don't know if he was speaking.
[17:42]
Tony Hinchcliffe
A bubble burst.
[17:43]
James McCann
It was like comedy. All of a sudden clubs started to close.
[17:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, there's been ups and downs with that. There was, there was. I came into comedy in 88 and apparently in 84 in Boston, it was even better. Yeah, like, there was like a peak. And I'm like, really? Like. Because when I came in, it was amazing. There was clubs everywhere. Like, nah, you missed it. So there's always been this like up and down of clubs closing and club. But like, New York is on the rise right now. There's a bunch of clubs that have opened up in New York. New York's comedy right now is doing great, I hope.
[18:17]
James McCann
Yeah, I hope they can figure it out.
[18:18]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What do you mean?
[18:19]
James McCann
Well, I was in. Last time I was in la, the spirit was. So I was never in LA for it being great, but I've heard all the stories about everyone's sports car at the back of the thing and there's this gig and that gig. And then I was. Everybody, like, has no sense that it's ever gonna work for them. Like, no one's even bothered to. It's like three podcasts in LA now that people are doing. I don't wanna talk it down. But like here everybody is so hopeful in Austin. And I can look at like, Peyton made it like last night. I'm looking at their green room. I'm like, all of these people have money and are touring and they came here and they got to do it. Like, and the hope and the adventure. And when I was in la, everyone was just.
[18:56]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You might have picked a bad night. But it's also like the Comedy Store has always been.
[19:01]
James McCann
That seems like it's getting better.
[19:02]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, it is getting better. Well, it's definitely getting better because Rose is running it now. She's awesome. But I think the Comedy Store has always been a top down vibe. And if there was a bunch of like big name national acts that were really cool and fun to hang out with, then it was a great vibe. And when they're gone, it always felt empty. It always felt weird. This is how it was with me in the 90s when I was there. And I think that's how it is now. We're all out here now.
[19:29]
James McCann
Yeah.
[19:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You know, and it's like. And then people kind of feel abandoned, so they feel sad, you know, and then they get a little mad at you. Like, you think me doing it Austin. And so it develops a stupid rift, which is the dumbest thing Ever. We're all on the same team. And also, you could work here, too. Like, it's so dumb.
[19:46]
James McCann
Yeah.
[19:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Like. But the rift is a real thing. But it's like, you have to be around a bunch of people that are having a good time to have a good time. You can't be the only person having a good time.
[19:56]
James McCann
And the rift can be good. The rift can motivate people to. Have you seen Lemaire's together?
[20:02]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No. What's he doing?
[20:03]
James McCann
He's just going hard on New York people and saying all of them. And Austin's number one. He's trying to. He's doing the same thing they were doing to him.
[20:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But I. Silly.
[20:10]
James McCann
I think he.
[20:11]
Tony Hinchcliffe
New York is fucking cool.
[20:12]
James McCann
I think he gets very drunk.
[20:13]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Comedy is swinging. There's so many great comics. Norman and Soder and Andrew Schultz and David tells the Best Alive.
[20:21]
James McCann
I don't know anyone.
[20:22]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Great comedians in New York.
[20:23]
James McCann
I don't see how you could have kids.
[20:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Gaffigan raised all his kids there, and he's like. Yeah. And he's super clean. Catholic guy. Yeah.
[20:32]
James McCann
I don't know how he's got some money to meet him.
[20:34]
Tony Hinchcliffe
First of all, he's got some money.
[20:35]
James McCann
Money has got to help send him
[20:37]
Tony Hinchcliffe
to a nice place to go to school where they're not going to get eaten.
[20:41]
James McCann
I think the trans thing is done in the schools.
[20:45]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. It's dropped off significantly.
[20:46]
James McCann
I had. Really. Cause we were homeschooling and I was just aware. Cause my dad's a teacher and he would say, I don't wanna get him in trouble. But he would report. He would report that the numbers were developing. And I think as a social phenomenon, it seems to have, like. Now everyone just says they have an anxiety disorder.
[21:04]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, you know, when it dropped off, like, noticeably, when Elon bought Twitter, we
[21:10]
James McCann
just stopped pumping the content.
[21:12]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, all of a sudden you could say whatever you wanted.
[21:15]
James McCann
Yeah.
[21:15]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And so you could make fun of it now. And then people realize, oh, this is. Is a completely falsely propped up narrative. Well, I mean, he smoke cigars.
[21:24]
James McCann
I quit all nicotine. You have. You have alcohol? I have a drink.
[21:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I can get you some alcohol.
[21:30]
James McCann
All right. If I could have a whiskey. I quit. I quit all nicotine.
[21:34]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What happened?
[21:35]
James McCann
I just having heart palpitations. I was doing it a lot. I had a problem. I cannot do a little bit. I see. You'll just like. You'll be backstage. You'll have one cigarette and you're fine.
[21:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, I can't. And I never smoke outside of. Right before A show.
[21:52]
James McCann
I don't. I mean, I. But I'm willpower to you. I can't do that.
[21:55]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I know how to shut things off. And I also regulate. Like, I realize, like when I. When I have an issue, like the nicotine pouches, I can just stop them. I've gone on vacation and just not take them. And I'm fine, I think, but I think it's my biology. It's almost time for spring break, so maybe you're headed to the beach, or maybe you're taking the kids on a road trip, or maybe you're just taking some extra time for yourself. No matter what, you deserve a break and a reset. And AG1 can help. AG1 is your daily health drink. Just one scoop combines your multivitamin, pre and probiotics, superfoods and antioxidants to help support and a healthy immune system and digestion. Plus, it travels really well, so you can start working it into your routine. Even when you don't have a routine, just slip a few travel packs into your luggage and have a nice flight. I've talked about AG1 for a long time, and it's not just me. I know a lot of people enjoy it. It's very easy, it's very convenient, and you deserve to take care of your health. Visit drink ag1.com Joe Rogan and for a limited time, get a bottle of Omega 3, vitamin D3K2 and flavor sampler for free in your welcome kit with your first subscription. That's an $111 value@drinkag1.com Joerogan I was quitting going back.
[23:19]
James McCann
When I went back to Australia and I came off nicotine at the same time, I think that was the closest to serious unpleasant, really. I don't think I ever got through to abusive. But man, there was a lot of shouting at the family. What the fuck are you doing? Put it down. I was not a happy.
[23:35]
Tony Hinchcliffe
How long did it last?
[23:37]
James McCann
It was for a month. I was real bad.
[23:39]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Wow.
[23:40]
James McCann
Real bad.
[23:41]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's crazy for me. I don't know what it is, man. I just. I could just put it alone, leave it alone. And I'm fine. And I monitored myself like I went on vacation for like eight days with the family. And I said, all right, no nicotine pouches. Let's see what happens.
[23:56]
James McCann
You were fine.
[23:56]
Tony Hinchcliffe
See if I go crazy? Yeah, I was waiting. Nothing. Nothing. Hip. Nothing. Was it you with the pouches? Was the pouches.
[24:04]
James McCann
I loved the pouches. And also, I mean, I got on the pouches to get off the cigarettes. And then I had to go on the cigarettes to get off the pouches. Then I was having cigarettes and pouches and the gun and my heart would start to go, and my mood would, like, way up and way down. Wow. But it was great. I got a lot done.
[24:22]
Tony Hinchcliffe
See, I. I get addicted to things.
[24:25]
James McCann
Yeah.
[24:25]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Like doing things, like, real bad. Like, I used to get addicted. Archery. Sure. But the thing about archery is you can only do it so much. Archery is good because it's. You know, my bow is £80 to pull back.
[24:39]
James McCann
Yeah.
[24:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And so if I'm pulling it back and I have another one, that's 90. And so when I'm pulling it back 80 pounds, you can only do that so many times. You know, I could do that maybe 100 times in a day, and my shoulder's blown out.
[24:50]
James McCann
If you're hunting, though, I mean, you're not shooting very often, but you wouldn't be able to get so tired that if you.
[24:58]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, no, no, no. When you're hunting, first of all, you're jacked up with adrenaline. Like. Like you could pull a branch off a fucking tree. You're so jacked up with adrenaline, you're just trying to stay calm. Like, when you're about to pull your bow, the bow pulls back effortlessly. It's like. It's like you don't even notice that It's. It pulls back so easy. You're so ramped up, you're not even thinking about it.
[25:20]
James McCann
How often are you doing that?
[25:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Bow hunting?
[25:22]
James McCann
Yeah.
[25:22]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Seriously. Only a couple times a year because I'm elk hunting, you know, and if I get an elk.
[25:28]
James McCann
Seasonal.
[25:28]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yes.
[25:29]
James McCann
Okay.
[25:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's September. September and October. Those are the time. But in Texas, we hunt pigs sometimes. We have a lease out here, so we'll go and hunt with a few of my friends from archery country. Shout out to Tyler and my friend Evan from Black Rifle Coffee. We'll go out.
[25:44]
James McCann
Wild pigs.
[25:45]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, they're everywhere.
[25:47]
James McCann
Okay.
[25:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They're infested with wild pigs. Are all over Texas.
[25:51]
James McCann
Thank you.
[25:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
There's millions of them. Like, literally millions of them. Like, one time they opened up a highway. Like, they built this new highway, and the day it opened up, they had, like, this ridiculous amount of accidents because people were hitting wild pigs. Because there were so many wild pigs out there that they're just crashing into them on the road with this new highway.
[26:10]
James McCann
Yeah.
[26:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Because the pigs had never seen cars before on this spot because they hadn't finished the road yet. And then all of a sudden, there's cars everywhere and These wild pigs are just getting.
[26:19]
James McCann
But today, because in Australia when they have a kangaroo problem and it's similar thing. Cheese. God bless. Thank you.
[26:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
God bless.
[26:25]
James McCann
They. They Gatling gun them from the sky.
[26:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They do that here. They do that here at a helicopter. You could do it if you want while you're in town. I'll set it up, you know.
[26:36]
James McCann
All right. I would feel. I would feel guilty.
[26:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[26:39]
James McCann
That would have been not a sporting way to start. Hunting would be the.
[26:42]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's a different machine gun.
[26:43]
James McCann
Yeah.
[26:43]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Because it's a necessity hunting. Right. I want to eat what I kill. If I kill something, I want to eat it.
[26:50]
James McCann
Yeah.
[26:50]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And the thing about these wild pigs is they're gunning down 20, 30, 40 of them in a day.
[26:54]
James McCann
Yeah.
[26:54]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They're doing them out of helicopters with machine guns. There's a bunch of companies that do it. There's. There's a video of Ted Nugent and this guy named Pigman. Pigman is like a famous bow hunter that lives in Texas. And they, it's called Aporkalypse now. And they're in a. They're in Alex helicopter. Ted Nugent and Pigman in a helicopter. And they gunned down like 240 pigs in a half hour pod. Not podcast.
[27:21]
James McCann
Yeah, yeah. Hunting show would be a great podcast. He's gone pig man. Yeah, he's a pig killing.
[27:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
His name's Brian. His name is Brian.
[27:28]
James McCann
Sure.
[27:28]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's pigment. He just kills a lot of wild pigs. But it's a necessity out here. Look at this is. But you have to understand how many pigs they have out here and the kind of damage that's pig man. And the kind of damage that these pigs do to agriculture. You know, they, they go through fences and they fuck up. Livestock gets out and there's a lot of shit with these pigs. Yeah. Oh, it's crazy.
[27:55]
James McCann
Is this the argument for bringing wolves back in?
[27:58]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, do not bring wolves.
[28:00]
James McCann
No. I'm against it. But I don't understand the. What is the most pro. Is there one sensible argument for bringing back in apex predators to.
[28:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, there's arguments for it. You could make an argument for it. The problem is you do not understand. No one understands what the ultimate result is going to be of introducing predators. There is a very strong reason why they eradicated wolves from the west Coast. Yeah. And from the United States. Because they kill everything. They're super smart apex predators. They work in packs unlike any other animal. They're very different and they kill everything and you can't do about them. And they kill people.
[28:39]
James McCann
Also, like the. In the uk, they got rid of them hundreds of years ago. This was like, they celebrated it.
[28:44]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And also they got rid of them in America, too.
[28:45]
James McCann
Yeah.
[28:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I mean, and now these greenies, these softies that really don't understand nature want to bring them back. So there's a good argument in some ways that having some predators would help. But the predators were slowly moving their way back into these areas anyway. So they never eradicated them from Canada. So they would come down from Canada and make their way into Minnesota, make their way into Iowa, make their way into. Not Iowa, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana. They had, like a small amount of wolves were kind of making their way in. Then they reintroduced a bunch of them into Montana in the 1990s into Yellowstone. That changed everything. That changed everything. It dropped the elk population by down to like 40% of what it used to be, which many people argue is actually a good thing because there was no predators in terms of like. Like, there's mountain lions, but mountain lions don't kill that many elk. They'll kill one in like a week.
[29:47]
James McCann
Like, families go to Yellowstone.
[29:50]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[29:50]
James McCann
So now there's just wolves.
[29:52]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, but the wolves are not with the people at Yellowstone. They really are just concentrating on the animals and they've, like, really knocked down the elk population substantially. But now they have an open hunting season on wolves in Montana because the, the, the numbers got a lot higher than they should be.
[30:08]
James McCann
Right.
[30:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So now, like, I know guys who hunt wolves and they go on wolf. It's very difficult.
[30:14]
James McCann
I was going to say it sounds more dangerous and. No, it's not that pleasant than hunting elk.
[30:18]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, no, it is dangerous that it is a predator. And if you do get surrounded by them, they decide to eat you and you're out of bullets, you could be fucked. But for the most part, they're very difficult to hunt. They're very difficult to find. They're also very difficult to get in range. They're fucking clever. They're clever. And once they realize they're being hunted and then once they realize that people are a problem, they fucking steer way clear.
[30:40]
James McCann
What's the ideological reason for wanting them back? Just that they. It's good to be in a country.
[30:44]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Nature.
[30:46]
James McCann
I love the nature, but focus on the bees, you know?
[30:49]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, there's people that don't like hunting. And for people that don't like hunting, they want nature to balance itself out. So the people that don't like the idea of humans killing and eating animals.
[31:00]
James McCann
Yeah.
[31:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They don't like them going out into the wild and killing wild animals. So they want something else to kill those wild animals. So then they bring in mountain lions or then they bring in wolves. And then they think that nature is going to sort itself out.
[31:15]
James McCann
I don't understand not wanting us to do it. Why is it okay for them to. This is the vegetarian argument that I never understand is that death occurs in nature. Animals are eating other animals.
[31:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right.
[31:25]
James McCann
So are we. If it's wrong to kill any animals, should we intervene?
[31:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right. Should we kill all the mountains, keep
[31:30]
James McCann
them from killing the cat? Fox was one of my favorite bits that you ever did.
[31:34]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, vegan cat.
[31:35]
James McCann
Is it? No. Was it not fox? Do you not talk about a fox?
[31:38]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, it's about vegan and it's very sick. But it literally is a true story.
[31:42]
James McCann
Yeah.
[31:42]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Like this lady was saying mean things to me on Twitter or Instagram and I saw one of the things on her page. I went to her page, it said hashtag vegan cat. And I was like, no. And so then I clicked on it and it's all cats that look like they've been stuck in a house with a gas leak.
[31:58]
James McCann
Wait, maybe they got me stuck. Started searching vegan animals. Because vegan fox I definitely read a lot about after that.
[32:04]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, there's people that have vegan dogs. They feed their dogs. But you're basically. You can kind of get away with it a little bit with a dog. But cats are what's called obligate predators.
[32:14]
James McCann
They only obligated to prey.
[32:17]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, they only eat meat. That's all they eat. That's it. They're just predators. They're full on murderous machines. Like house cats are some of the most murderous creatures on earth. They kill billions of animals. As soon as you die.
[32:32]
James McCann
As soon as you die. Yeah. Like, because dogs will give you an afternoon weeks, other dogs give you just a little head start.
[32:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But it depends on how starving they are. You know, if they're starving to death, their instincts kick in and they'll eat you. But cats just start eating you. They're like, oh, look, eyeballs.
[32:50]
James McCann
Well, yet to get. We yet to get an animal. You have. You have dogs. You have one dog. Two dogs.
[32:57]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Two dogs.
[32:58]
James McCann
And you don't run the Instagram pages for these. Someone's running.
[33:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
My family does.
[33:02]
James McCann
Really? Yeah.
[33:03]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So we got a little guy named Charlie.
[33:05]
James McCann
Yeah.
[33:06]
Tony Hinchcliffe
He is a King Charles. King Charles Cavalier Spaniel.
[33:10]
James McCann
Yeah.
[33:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
His. This is the furthest animal away from wolf that is possible. Like because they all came from wolves. But he's the furthest from a wolf. He has no. He's this big. He's adorable.
[33:20]
James McCann
You feel like we're in the big week. And the stockings and holding him.
[33:23]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You.
[33:23]
James McCann
I always wanted to be King Charles.
[33:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I just give him kisses. He's a sweetie, though. It's not yours, but that's what they look like. Yeah, that's what they look like. I mean, come on. Look at that face. They're just so sweet. They're so happy just to be around you. And they're just so loving. And they, like. He makes sounds like a person. Like he was doing something. Like he was licking all this water that was coming off of a drain. And I go, hey, stop doing that. And I picked out. He went a.
[33:50]
James McCann
That dog.
[33:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, I love.
[33:51]
James McCann
But they don't. They don't make me feel sad. They're a little dog who look interesting.
[33:55]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, that's him.
[33:55]
James McCann
But, like, that's Charlie. That's him.
[33:56]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, that's.
[33:57]
James McCann
Pugs make me very sad. I think about pugs a lot, and they upset me. And the long dogs, like the sausage dogs with the back problems. Anything that looks like it, right. It's ready to die.
[34:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, no, I know what you mean. I know what you mean.
[34:09]
James McCann
Like, a golden retriever is great.
[34:11]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. Well, I have one of those.
[34:13]
James McCann
Yeah.
[34:13]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[34:13]
James McCann
It's my favorite.
[34:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Those two dogs are great. This is not like a pug. They're very active. They're really. They're. They're very.
[34:19]
James McCann
It's like a water dog.
[34:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's a dog that's just like a house dog. They're just like a little love machine. Just a little pet. He's a sweet, sweet little guy. Like, he's the best. He's so nice. He's like, so. And he just relentlessly tortures my dog, Marshall, the big dog. Yeah. Who's the most tolerant dog on earth? He just lays there, and the dog. The puppy's like. Like, biting him and biting his ear. He's a year old.
[34:45]
James McCann
Okay.
[34:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So we've had him for, whatever, eight months, I guess. Like, how many months they give them to you? Three months old. Something like that. How old are puppies when you get them?
[34:54]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
She should be, I think, eight weeks old, I think.
[34:56]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. So we probably had him for 10 months. He's adorable.
[35:00]
James McCann
You cannot travel with a dog to Australia.
[35:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No. You have to get them all kinds of shit. Tried. Yeah. He got in big trouble for that. Right.
[35:06]
James McCann
I think that was the beginning of the end of that marriage.
[35:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I think it was from the moment
[35:10]
James McCann
he said they were happy to get married, they were Happy until that dog problem. But the guy who. There was a politician who stopped Johnny Depp, who like, he came out and said, we're gonna destroy his dogs. And then everyone made fun of him in America. But that guy is now doing. He's like big in the emergent populist right. In Australia over the last six months.
[35:31]
Tony Hinchcliffe
He got. He wanted to kill Johnny Depp's dogs.
[35:33]
James McCann
Yeah. It was a great speaker. He was like, I don't care if you are People magazine's sexiest man of the year. Get your dogs out.
[35:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Why? He was a big deal.
[35:41]
James McCann
We have no rabies. We're very precious about the border. That's all we've got. His name's Barnaby Joyce. He is sick.
[35:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Demand that dogs leave the country within 48 to 50 hours or be put down, citing strict quarantine laws designed to protect diseases like rabies. But here's the thing. Just test them. How much does it cost to test a dog for rabies? It's probably pretty quick.
[36:01]
James McCann
Barnaby Joyce drunk. So this was not long after that. He had an issue with the pistol and boo. Yeah, go. Barnaby Joyce drunk. They caught him on the streets of our lake of Canberra, which is where the Keppel is. And he was just passed out in the street. He's like, there he is down the bottom.
[36:20]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, the bottom one.
[36:21]
James McCann
Yeah. But he's just. He's just lying on the street. When was. Wasn't that long ago.
[36:30]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Years ago.
[36:32]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Joyce, look at him.
[36:34]
James McCann
That man was in the government.
[36:37]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Good. What's wrong? It's a safe place to live. I was walking back to my accommodations after Parliament rose at 10pm oh, that's all he was doing. Just walking back to his accommodations.
[36:47]
James McCann
I do like him a lot.
[36:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Look, he's just taking a nap. He's just chilling.
[36:52]
James McCann
We have a strong.
[36:53]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Could be a long walk.
[36:54]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, man. Give the guy a break.
[36:56]
James McCann
It's kicking. We're finally. We were the last country to have like a right wing populist thing happen. You guys had the Trump. And then England is having it happen with like in a big way. It's really starting to swing there.
[37:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So it's swinging right now and it's starting up.
[37:11]
James McCann
Yeah.
[37:11]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And what's.
[37:11]
James McCann
What's causing that terrorist attack was not good.
[37:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[37:15]
James McCann
And then also running out of petrol really has upset people.
[37:18]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[37:19]
James McCann
We don't have. We don't make our own gas. We had two refineries. One of them accidentally blew up a week ago.
[37:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Do you think it accidentally blew up?
[37:28]
James McCann
I have no comment to make on that.
[37:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What do you think, though?
[37:30]
James McCann
No, I think probably someone. Seems like real bad luck.
[37:34]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Seems like it.
[37:35]
James McCann
I mean, they would have been doing it at, like, max capacity. Maybe they did it past when it was safe, but it's not. I thought I wasn't going to make it out of the country because they're out of gas. Flights started to get cancelled. Yeah. So I made it. We'll see if I can get back. And if you can't? Well, I'll just stay in Austin for another couple of months.
[37:50]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Get back.
[37:51]
James McCann
I'm sorry, honey, just.
[37:52]
Tony Hinchcliffe
We've got a lot of spots.
[37:53]
James McCann
There's no choice.
[37:55]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I'm not going to go any work here.
[37:57]
James McCann
It is so nice because getting to do it. It is so nice having a club that. No, it's like there's four cities in the world where you can do it. I think about this a lot. There's nowhere, like in America there's three, and there'd be London. That's it. That you can.
[38:11]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What?
[38:12]
James McCann
That there's like multiple rooms with lineup shows every night of the week.
[38:17]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right.
[38:17]
James McCann
So people can just go and run 10, 15 minutes.
[38:20]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[38:20]
James McCann
And like at a good room with people and get paid. And get paid. Yeah. I mean, you need all of those factors to be able to do it.
[38:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And you also need other comics around you.
[38:28]
James McCann
Yes.
[38:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
This is one of the things that we were talking about last night in the green room. Like, you know, me and Ari. Ari Shir's in town, and we were saying, you can't be like the best comic in the world and just live in a small town in, you know, Cincinnati. It's like it doesn't exist by yourself. Doesn't exist.
[38:48]
James McCann
Comedy doesn't exist in a little town in Arizona. And the pressure seems to have driven that comedy club owner right over the edge.
[38:56]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, yeah, Stanhope's boy. But that guy was crazy already. Right.
[38:59]
James McCann
I didn't know a thing about it. I just didn't give the speech.
[39:02]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, if he's hanging with Stanhope, you know, Stanhope tends to collect some people that are on the fringe.
[39:08]
James McCann
I'm not blaming Doug Stanhope, but that's a different scene.
[39:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right. Like, Stanhope, you know, was just kind of being out there by himself. And it didn't even have a comedy club for the longest time while he lived there. It wasn't like there was a whole comedy scene there in Bisbee.
[39:20]
James McCann
Was it like 20,000 people?
[39:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's very small.
[39:22]
James McCann
Yeah.
[39:22]
Tony Hinchcliffe
He knows everybody. Right. But the Austin thing was very different. Like, we were stuck Here there was not a lot of options. We could have gone to Houston, could have gone to Dallas, maybe Nashville, maybe Florida. There was no place else that we would allow to do comedy.
[39:39]
James McCann
Nashville is. Would be the next one. It's really trying.
[39:43]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Nashville's got Zany's, which is awesome. That's a great club.
[39:47]
James McCann
They got Theo there. They've got Nate there.
[39:49]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Nate and Theo both live there, but I don't know how many sets they're doing in town. You know, Nate is doing stadiums. He's doing these giant places all over the world, and Theo is killing it. And he's got one of the best podcasts in the world.
[40:01]
James McCann
But there are definitely. There are, like, Nashville comics who are coming out, who I see around the place who are doing really well.
[40:05]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Sure, I'm sure there's a smaller scene, but in terms of, like, a lot of work. Yeah, Austin's the spot right now because there's seven clubs on our street.
[40:17]
James McCann
Hold on.
[40:18]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's nuts. Within a block radius. You've got Creek in the Cave, which is over on 7th. You've got Sunset, which is right next to us. You got Black Rabbit. You've got the Velveeta Room.
[40:31]
James McCann
Yes, I'm gonna count Shakespeare's next door. Yeah, I'll allow that.
[40:35]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They do comedy if you want.
[40:37]
James McCann
I do love the Velveeta Room.
[40:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That place has been around forever.
[40:41]
James McCann
It's been around forever. And there's the gay cabaret next door. I don't think it's expressly gay. I just call it a gay cabaret.
[40:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You like going in there?
[40:47]
James McCann
I went there one evening. I was having a full mental breakdown. I don't know why. Just a classic, you know, out of nowhere. Ah, you know, the kids. It's a lot of pressure. Maybe the act wasn't working. Maybe I'd been on the road, I don't know. And I was down, I was depressed. And I wandered into them doing their. The Esther's Follies show. I just sat up the back and I had a pina colada. And they were all like. There was a magician. It was just a very camp magician. And then they're singing like campy show tunes about the Supreme Court or something. Like they're still doing SNL style sketches. And it was like, you know, it was dumb and it was hokey, but it made me so happy.
[41:23]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, that's nice.
[41:23]
James McCann
Just to, like, have people having a good time. Razzle dazzle, smiling. There was no bitterness.
[41:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Happiness.
[41:29]
James McCann
Yeah. And it made me want to fix my act so that I Wasn't like, sometimes I feel I get up there and I'm just like screaming and I look unpleasant. And these people are like, you owe people a show.
[41:38]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yes. You know, I don't think you look unpleasant, but you're just very self conscious.
[41:42]
James McCann
No, sometimes. I did the Creek in the Cave last night and I did a lot
[41:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
of screaming into the abyss. I was like, yeah, another great club. Great, great spot. Creek in the Cave is a great club. It's a fun place when it's packed, it's rocking and, you know, it's a lot of good comedy coming out of that. I mean, that's where Shane filmed especially.
[42:06]
James McCann
New York is on the app again. New York is finally.
[42:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Everybody that I talk to, all my friends from New York, I'll say that there's a lot of clubs opening. There's a lot going on. It's, it's, it's hopping. Didn't they just open up an. Was it an improv in Brooklyn? Did they open up an improv in Brooklyn?
[42:22]
James McCann
I know this top secret comedy has just like a London club has just moved there.
[42:27]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Interesting.
[42:28]
James McCann
I don't know how it's going, but they're doing like a free model.
[42:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They're trying to do. They were trying to do a UCB in Austin. I don't know if that's still happening. The problem with UCB is UCB in LA didn't pay at all.
[42:40]
James McCann
This is improv?
[42:41]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No. Upright Citizens Brigade. They have some improv, but they do.
[42:44]
James McCann
I thought that was. I didn't know.
[42:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They do stand up.
[42:47]
James McCann
Okay.
[42:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. But they don't pay you.
[42:48]
James McCann
They don't pay.
[42:49]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No. Which is crazy.
[42:51]
James McCann
There was a history of that at the store.
[42:54]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Sure. That was the. There was like this big protest. What does it say? Improv Brooklyn. There you go.
[43:00]
James McCann
There's a strong zoom.
[43:02]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. I think Joey said he was going there. It's a completely new place.
[43:06]
James McCann
All right. I don't know if politically correct, but
[43:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
this is what I'm saying. It's like, it's popping. Comedy's coming back.
[43:12]
James McCann
Some improvs are black and some are not.
[43:15]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What?
[43:16]
James McCann
Like some improvs around the country are like. Just if I look at the lineup, I'm not saying here, but like, you sound like a racist foreigner in Cleveland. The improv is just a black club.
[43:27]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I've done the improv in Cleveland.
[43:28]
James McCann
I think it's a black club. Really? No negativity. I like, I like, I would like. I like playing black clubs.
[43:36]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So it's. Cleveland is. That's one. It's close to Kentucky, right?
[43:39]
James McCann
Am I getting this right? Maybe it's Pittsburgh.
[43:41]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, Pittsburgh's not. But I've been that place.
[43:43]
James McCann
No, I've done that one as well. Pittsburgh's great up there as well. I'm telling. Well, hilarities was the non racially.
[43:50]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Go back to that website real quick. Look at all the different ones. Wow. There's a ton of them.
[43:57]
James McCann
It's one of those fake clip. Maybe it shut down.
[43:59]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So the other. There's a club in Cleveland. There is a club in Cleveland that I went to way back in the day. But it's really. You land in Kentucky and then you drive to Cleveland.
[44:11]
James McCann
What? Yeah. No, Cincinnati.
[44:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Is it Cincinnati?
[44:15]
James McCann
Yeah, that makes more sense.
[44:15]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Okay, that's it. You're right.
[44:17]
James McCann
You need to drive out. Ohio is more built than people give credit before. Three huge cities. They got that Chile that everybody loves.
[44:25]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Columbus is great. Columbus.
[44:27]
James McCann
Cincinnati has the most beautiful skyline.
[44:28]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You ever do the funny bone. Columbus.
[44:30]
James McCann
Yes. Fucking great club with the balcony. It was very nice.
[44:33]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's. Does it have a balcony?
[44:35]
James McCann
I'm pretty sure yes.
[44:36]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Columbus. Funny ones, right?
[44:38]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Definitely changed it since you've been there last.
[44:40]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's a new one. No. Oh, they just had a balcony.
[44:43]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
They just renovated the whole room.
[44:45]
James McCann
Oh, I love having the balcony.
[44:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They must have had to add seats. It was killing it.
[44:49]
James McCann
Everywhere that has a balcony is my favorite.
[44:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Once you have a place that's a club that gets good accent every weekend. Cleveland Improv.
[44:55]
James McCann
Okay, hold on. What's that? They love to go and see Eddie Griffin at the Cleveland Improv. Come on.
[45:00]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
This is 20. Maybe it closed.
[45:04]
Tony Hinchcliffe
This is 20. 20. Oh, it's six years ago.
[45:06]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
I don't know.
[45:06]
James McCann
It's like when I typed in Cleveland improv. So who was that? Lou and El's there and Tony Baker was there. I would not be besmirched for making a very genuine observation about how black the Cleveland improv was.
[45:19]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's hilarious.
[45:21]
James McCann
Because I tried to get on. I was trying to do black rooms when I. I got to. I got to open for finesse. Mitchell. That was the first black room. I got to play nice. I've slowed down. There's not heaps of black rooms in Austin. I should go over and sometimes and.
[45:32]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. Where the black rooms in Austin.
[45:35]
James McCann
I think the mothership probably upset the ship. Yeah.
[45:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[45:40]
James McCann
I still. I still think chocolate sundaes could work at the mothership. I can't run it. You could. That would be fun.
[45:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I feel like you just have shows. I think themes are. They try to do an Italian theme at the Comedy Store for a while. Like, Night of a Thousand Guidos, I think they called it it. And I did it. And I was like, what am I doing? I'm on this show with all these other Italians just because they're Italian.
[46:04]
James McCann
There is something different about a black audience.
[46:06]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[46:08]
James McCann
That's a different skill set. I found.
[46:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's a different skill set. And they. They won't tolerate nonsense. They won't tolerate all this. Like, what else?
[46:16]
James McCann
What else?
[46:17]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, no, no, no, no. They're not here for that. Which I think is good.
[46:21]
James McCann
You can't even make fun of gay. You can't. You can't mention gay stuff at all.
[46:25]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Really.
[46:26]
James McCann
Oh, man. I had a trans bit. Just people were not happy to hear why he's talking about that. Now. You're bringing that up. We're out here to have a nice night. It was like on a dime. It turned.
[46:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Really?
[46:39]
James McCann
Yeah. And then people told me afterwards, they don't want to hear about. They don't want to hear that word from you.
[46:44]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Really interesting.
[46:46]
James McCann
It was. It was fun. If I felt very alive when it was going well. And also black people giving you compliment. Just an Aussie boy coming off stage, having a black guy go, you gotta go to stage presence. It's like, oh, fuck. Thank you so much.
[46:58]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's awesome.
[46:59]
James McCann
I. Yeah. Black people. That was very eye opening. When I came to America.
[47:04]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You don't have a lot of that in Australia.
[47:05]
James McCann
We have Africans and we have aboriginal people, but we have no. If you wear a cool coat in Australia, no one will tell you about it. Mmm. There will be no one to say.
[47:13]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. There's a very big difference between African Americans.
[47:16]
James McCann
Yeah.
[47:17]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And black people worldwide. Like, African Americans are responsible for so much of the culture, music, comedy. There's like so much of an impact that African Americans have had on the world. Think about just. Just hip hop music.
[47:35]
James McCann
Yeah.
[47:36]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right. So hip hop music doesn't even exist until I was in middle school, like late 70s. Yeah. So I was in middle school. I went to high school in 81. And when was Sugar Hill Gang's Hip Hibbity. The hibbity hip hop. What was that song called? Rapper's Delight.
[47:53]
James McCann
Yeah.
[47:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So that song came out when I was. I think I was 13. I think I was 13. I think I Was in middle.
[48:02]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
1979 is when it.
[48:03]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, they formed. That makes sense. So when I was in Bought. When we first moved to Boston, my family didn't have much money. We. We lived in a place called Jamaica Plain. And it's since been kind of gentrified. But that back then, it was not. It was the first time I'd ever been around scary kids. Yeah, like. Like violent, delinquent kids who had all had sex. I hadn't had sex. All these kids, they're like, you don't even know where A is, do you? I'm like, it's down there. Like, you probably think you go right into it, right? You got to go up. I'm like, okay. I don't know. I never even kissed a girl. I was like, what the are you guys talking about? But they were, like, lighting fires, doing crazy. Like, they were delinquents, stealing things, breaking and entering. Yeah. And so I went to this high school, or middle school, rather. And this middle school was in a poor neighborhood. And I remember there was a kid that was in my class. I was 13. He was 17 years old. And he kept failing. He kept failing and coming back. He would come back for like, a couple weeks or two, and then he would quit. And I remember seeing him at the beginning of the school year and going, I can't believe he's 17 and he's in class with me. This is nuts. And then I was filled with, like, this sense of dread for him, for his future. Like, this fucking guy's never gonna graduate middle school, so he's never gonna go to high school. He's fucking 17. Like, will they even allow you to go to high school if you're 21? Like, what. What year do they say, you can't come here anymore? You failed nine years in a row at some point? That kind of kids. It was that kind of kids. And then there was, like, kids making out in class. I remember this Puerto Rican girl, she asked a question to the teacher. She said, if I'm making out with a guy and he's breathing into my mouth and I'm breathing into his, can we stay alive like that?
[49:51]
James McCann
Can you?
[49:52]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, no, no. It's carbon dioxide. I never forgot that question.
[49:56]
James McCann
Can we need fresh eyes like that.
[49:57]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It was the craziest question. She was like, can we breathe each other's air and not open our mouths? And I was like, what are you doing, you fucking dirty freak? So a lot of girls dropped out, out, like, while I was there because they got pregnant.
[50:11]
James McCann
Sure.
[50:12]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It was dangerous.
[50:13]
James McCann
Where were you before then, though? Were you in a middle class? You're in a more middle class place before then.
[50:17]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, I was in Florida. I was in Gainesville, Florida, which was, like, way safer. It was. It was Pretty cool.
[50:23]
James McCann
You may have moved around more than anyone I know.
[50:25]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I moved around a lot. So I lived in New Jersey until I was 7 and then lived in San Francisco from 7 to 11 and then lived in Florida from 11 to 13 and then Boston from 13 to 24.
[50:38]
James McCann
Do you. I mean. Cause you're now your kids growing up in. They were in LA and then they're here. Do you think I worry about my kids? Cause I don't think they've ever been in the same house for more than one year. Like I have a seven year old daughter, she's been in seven houses now. Cause we've had to move a lot. And I wonder what impact that is making.
[50:59]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, as long as they're young, I honestly think it has a positive effect. Okay, this is my take on what it did for me. I was forced to form my own opinions instead of adopting the opinions of a group of people that were around me because I never had a consistent group of people that were around me. I met a bunch of new people everywhere I went and I had new friends everywhere I went and completely new environments everywhere I went. So I went from San Francisco in the 1970s right into Florida. And Florida was so backwards in terms of their mentality in comparison to San Francisco. Sure, San Francisco. We lived in hippieville. It was all like anti war people and it's San Francisco in the 1970s. And so then moved to Florida and it was like I had this friend, his name was Candy, his last name was Candido, everybody called him Candy. And his dad was like this really angry Cuban guy. And I remember him slamming a newspaper on the table and he was like, these want to marry? This is crazy. Like they're gonna let faggots marry each other. And I remember thinking like, what do you care? Because I lived in San Francisco, we're surrounded by gay people. Yeah, our neighbors were gay. My aunt used to smoke pot with them and they'd all get naked and play bongo drums because like she felt comfortable being naked around these guys who had.
[52:21]
James McCann
They should definitely. They should rein it in now. I would say I haven't now seen
[52:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
San Francisco a little bit, but that's not. It's not the gays that caused San Francisco to go down the way it is. It's this crazy progressive politics where they allow people to camp on the streets.
[52:33]
James McCann
I just, I went to a diner and I saw a man. He was wearing assless chaps and sitting on that upset me.
[52:38]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Apparently if you're gay, it would be
[52:40]
James McCann
a good spot the public nudity is your. You have to cover the urethra. But if you cover the urethra, everything else is fine.
[52:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, so you just like put a
[52:48]
James McCann
piece of tape over the whole googly eye? Over the Jap eye.
[52:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Nice.
[52:51]
James McCann
Maybe you kind of it call it then you can.
[52:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You just did.
[52:55]
James McCann
No, but that's. So that, that would. That helped you become more. Because you have like a weirdly independent mentality.
[53:00]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's why.
[53:01]
James McCann
Yeah.
[53:02]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So that I think going to a bunch of different places and seeing that. Oh, people think completely differently over here than they think over here. This is weird. You know, I remember when I lived in Florida, I had to ask my mother what the N word meant because I heard it at school and she got upset with me. She goes, you know what it means? I go, I don't, I don't what it means. And she's like, it's a. It's a bad word for black people. I was like, whoa. Really? Like, it made no sense to me because the formative years, I think were really important. And I think 7 to 11 in San Francisco was really important for me because in a way, at least for me, it was very much a utopian city. It was like very open minded. It was very peaceful. There was very little crime, like real crime.
[53:52]
James McCann
Beautiful place.
[53:52]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It was gorgeous. It was gorgeous. We'd. I'd go fishing. I had this guy. There was like this community center and this guy named Cliff would take us fishing. It was really cool. Like, there was a lot of like good things about San Francisco back then. And there was a lot of artists and it was a lot of like. It was a cool vibe, you know, it was a. It was a very open minded vibe. That was. A lot of it was centered around the anti war movement and peace. You know, there was a lot. It was like, it was a different kind of. And they were sort of just like just getting over the psychedelic wave of the 1960s. Right. So this is like they're still in
[54:32]
James McCann
that mode, but it was still like an artist driven.
[54:35]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. A lot of open pot smoking. It was a lot of like just hippies, but. But in the best way. It wasn't camping on the streets. It wasn't. There was no fentanyl back then. There was no any. There's no homelessness. Like, homelessness was super, super rare.
[54:52]
James McCann
Yeah.
[54:52]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Like in the 1970s, like when I was a kid, I never saw people camped out in the street. You never saw any of that. You occasionally saw a bum and it was usually some poor fuck who's it's
[55:03]
James McCann
like a drunk guy. Right.
[55:04]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Lost his way.
[55:05]
James McCann
Also, if you, if you look at Dirty Harry or On the Waterfront, whenever there is, like, a depiction of, like, whenever they're doing vagrants in the 50s and 60s, it's like a drunk guy stumbling around, like in Rambo, he just wants a sandwich and they chase him out of town.
[55:19]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right.
[55:19]
James McCann
And then, you know, it's trouble. But now there's like, they're everywhere. It's like kung fu skeletons moving around the place, like, full of drug. Like, what is the end point of that? No one's running on that. I remember Trump talked about a little bit the need to have asylums again. Cause they closed the asylums.
[55:33]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yes.
[55:34]
James McCann
I mean, there are more therapists now than there ever were before, but they're helping, like, corporate people. They're not helping schizophrenics without a home. Like, at some point you saw Trump bring the army in to places like Portland or the National Guard to clear it out. And I think people were quietly kind of pleased that that was happening. There was people pushed back.
[55:55]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Is that why they cleared it out? It was a homeless situation.
[55:57]
James McCann
I think it was the homelessness.
[55:58]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I thought it was protests.
[56:00]
James McCann
No, I think that was. I think that. And Washington as well. I think they came into. Well, Washington was clearly homeless people.
[56:06]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It was crime as well.
[56:07]
James McCann
Yeah.
[56:07]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Like, Washington was like crazy with crime.
[56:09]
James McCann
And they were all kind of happy about it.
[56:11]
Tony Hinchcliffe
While the mayor of D.C. was happy.
[56:14]
James McCann
Yeah.
[56:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That Trump brought in the National Guard.
[56:16]
James McCann
But this is. It's not a nice. You can't lose the downtowns across America.
[56:23]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You know how bad L. A has gotten, right?
[56:26]
James McCann
Yeah. Yes, I do.
[56:27]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Do you know how big skit Skid Row is? Take a guess.
[56:31]
James McCann
What do you mean? How many people?
[56:32]
Tony Hinchcliffe
How many blocks?
[56:33]
James McCann
I have no idea.
[56:34]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Take a guess. 2,50.
[56:36]
James McCann
Well, that's too many blocks.
[56:38]
Tony Hinchcliffe
5,0.
[56:39]
James McCann
That's not a row anymore.
[56:40]
Tony Hinchcliffe
5,0. Just completely claimed by homeless zombies.
[56:44]
James McCann
No. How big are the blocks? I'm thinking about big.
[56:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
As I stayed away from there. It's huge.
[56:48]
James McCann
I went to the Hollywood Hills in Malibu and had a nice time.
[56:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Downtown is nuts. Downtown LA is the only downtown of any major city. That sucks. No, downtown New York.
[56:58]
James McCann
New York is incredible.
[56:59]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right. Downtown San Francisco is with homeless people, but it's still. You got great restaurants. Downtown LA is a ghost town.
[57:08]
James McCann
I said Portland. Portland is so beautiful in the downtown. But then you will turn down the street and it's terrifying.
[57:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
50 to 54. Oh, it's growing. Skid row in Los Angeles officially Known as Central City east, covers approximately 50 to 54 blocks.
[57:25]
James McCann
15,000.
[57:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. They don't know how many people are there. There's just wild guesses in terms of what the populations of homeless people are, even in terms of the population in the entire city. The high number is over a hundred thousand in the city. It's crazy. Look how big it is. All that whole area is completely lost.
[57:43]
James McCann
It was a row. I thought it was like one street.
[57:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It was. It was back in, like, the 1960s.
[57:49]
James McCann
I think it's.
[57:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
There's a.
[57:52]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Like a map or something they've drawn on a picture there. I think it's been that for a long time.
[57:56]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Look at this proposed area. Affordable housing. Affordable housing is just a joke. It's not what the problem is. They're all drug addicts. They're drug addicts and mentally ill. Yeah,
[58:06]
James McCann
but what do you do there?
[58:07]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, you can't let it get that bad, first of all. And if you do let it get that bad, you got to treat it like it's a catastrophic failure and throw as much resources as possible at it. But the problem is these people are incentivized to keep the problem going because that's how they make their living.
[58:21]
James McCann
Absolutely.
[58:22]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But they don't have any motivation whatsoever to fix it. Yeah, because if the homeless population drops down to, like, a very small number, and then they don't need all these people that are making half a million dollars a year on the homeless commission. It's complete grifting.
[58:38]
James McCann
I. I don't have a. It's not my country. I don't have any big problem with Gavin Newsom. You know, I don't understand how LA has. Every story that comes out of California
[58:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
seems to be okay, so here it says between 1960 and 1975, 50% of the housing in Skid row was demolished, reducing the total number of units from 15,000 to 7,500 and displacing thousands of poor residents with nowhere else to go but the street. While Skid Row is never a wealthy neighborhood, its current status as the homeless capital of America is the result of decades of policy choices which have simultaneously encouraged the destruction of existing affordable. See, this is. Is, by the way, this is a very progressive perspective.
[59:17]
James McCann
Yeah.
[59:18]
Tony Hinchcliffe
The real perspective. The real perspective is that what they use Skid Row for was when they would find vagrants in Beverly Hills and vagrants in. How in Hollywood, they would move them to skid row and then they would kind of contain them in that area.
[59:34]
James McCann
Yeah, yeah. Dumping. So encourage a concentration camp. Yeah.
[59:38]
Tony Hinchcliffe
With homeless medical patients. I like other. See, this is a very progressive perspective. Homeless medical patients. How about vagrants who are drug addicts? You can call them medical patients. Like, you're just being kind. This is just too charitable. From the. Across the region. So they would dump them there, and then they also had, like, food kitchens there and stuff like that. So they. They had a incentive to stay, but they kept them there. And so then it kept growing because the homeless problem keeps growing.
[60:06]
James McCann
But it is. It's psychosis and drugs that's the ultimate.
[60:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yes, drugs are the big one. It's. And drugs are the. The drug use in skid row is probably 100%. It's not like regular homeless people in Portland.
[60:21]
James McCann
And I saw a. I was walking to the train station through the downtown, which had. No one told me not to do it. And I. All these very sad homeless people. And then one guy with a big smile, he was so happy.
[60:32]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Probably guy's fracking.
[60:33]
James McCann
Well, no, it's the first time I saw crack being smoked. Oh, there's a great smell. Smell kind of sweet. Yeah.
[60:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Like what way?
[60:40]
James McCann
Like, smell like sweet. Like a rotten apple. That's how it felt at the time. I don't know if that was the cracker. I mean, he was smoking crack and I could smell that, but he was so happy. And I didn't want to take his crack away. You know, it's like he's the only thing you've really got going for you today.
[60:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, I think crack, obviously, we should take it away. Not good for you, but probably better for you than fentanyl. So I think with crack, you're active of crack. Makes you go do a bunch of stuff.
[61:08]
James McCann
This is weird, seeing heroin people for the first time, because they're not like a threat. Australia is still a very meth country. We're like, oh, meth is a problem. It's a lot of, like, skinny, shirtless men on the bus.
[61:17]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Angry. Yeah.
[61:18]
James McCann
Weird head twitching back and forth. So we're still very methy, but meth doesn't seem to be as big here now.
[61:23]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, it's big. It's big. In certain communities, meth is still big. It's like, you know what. What you've got in. I mean, the. The homeless situation in skid row wasn't always fentanyl and heroin. I mean, at one point in time, it was meth. You know, it's. It's a gang of different things. I'm sure there's people there that are doing ketamine.
[61:41]
James McCann
Do you just start Killing, drug deal. Do you do like in Singapore? You just have a zero tolerance policy. Like, I don't know long term what the answer is, Because, I mean, look,
[61:50]
Tony Hinchcliffe
you could do it that way, but it would be very inhumane and it would also set a precedent for how you treat a bunch of other situations. Yeah, that's not good. It's dangerous.
[61:59]
James McCann
The communists, when they had an opium problem in China, they just put them in the military. That, like, give people a new sense of purpose. You've got a uniform now we're going to blame someone else for the problem. This is. Western imperialism did this to you?
[62:11]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[62:11]
James McCann
And that seemed to help. Like they didn't have a big opium problem in China anymore. Also, I don't know how official that is and how many people they did just kill. Because it's the communist government.
[62:20]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[62:20]
James McCann
They're allowed to.
[62:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They lie.
[62:23]
James McCann
They might lie.
[62:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They definitely lie.
[62:25]
James McCann
Although last time I was. A couple months ago, I was here and Kurt Metzger was telling me the Tiananmen Square was not all that bad.
[62:33]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, I don't know.
[62:33]
James McCann
I didn't do enough. I didn't do enough digging. From everything he says from a short Google search, I can agree with it, but I'm sure if I dug down, I'd have more questions. I haven't seen him actually since I got back. Is he still here?
[62:45]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, yeah, I've seen everybody. Fucking mind. He's great.
[62:47]
James McCann
Most people are still here.
[62:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, he's the best.
[62:50]
James McCann
Even odd, he.
[62:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But he. You can't talk conspiracies with him because it'll just. He'll chain them one after another after another, and then three minutes in, you forgot what you're even talking about because he's. He's moved on to some scandal in the 1970s with call boys in Congress.
[63:06]
James McCann
Oh, you spoke to him about Reagan?
[63:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, yeah, it was. What is it called? The Franklin.
[63:10]
James McCann
His tapes.
[63:11]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Hassan was talking to me about. Franklin scandal. Franklin scandal. Hassan was bringing that up last night. He's reading a book on it.
[63:17]
James McCann
I want to think that Reagan was a good guy.
[63:19]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I always like, I don't think it's Reagan. I think it's whoever's in his cabinet.
[63:22]
James McCann
I mean, it was. Well, he's dead. He can't. He was saying things about Reagan getting pegged.
[63:27]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What? Who was saying that?
[63:30]
James McCann
Kurt was talking about that there was a tape somewhere of Reagan getting pegged. I was like, I don't want to know.
[63:35]
Tony Hinchcliffe
These guys don't even think the Artemis flight went past the moon. They didn't Kurt thinks there's a secret space program and that this space program is bullshit. There's a real space program, and they're using this space program to obfuscate.
[63:51]
James McCann
It just seems very complicated.
[63:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Might be saying it incorrectly. He knows a lot of things. He does a lot.
[63:57]
James McCann
He does. And then when I dig in, often it seems true.
[63:59]
Tony Hinchcliffe
A lot of it is true.
[64:00]
James McCann
But also, I don't. I think the government is incompetent everywhere. And if they were able to get that one thing of, you know, building a fake space program to conceal a true space program, it seems unlikely.
[64:12]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. Well, do you know the mount. How much money you'd have to. Have to run two space programs, One real one and one fake one? That's crazy. Just a real one costs so much. Well, the Nazi one was real.
[64:23]
James McCann
Yeah, yeah, that's. Come in, everyone. Seems.
[64:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Some people are still not aware of it. I've had conversations with people where they. They don't want to admit it. Where they can't believe it. Do you know NASA was run by Nazis? They're like, what you tell them about Werner von Braun and they. They want it like, there's a lot of people that are like, nats, NASA fanboys. And these NASA fanboys don't want to believe that NASA was run by literal Nazis. Yeah, yeah.
[64:50]
James McCann
I mean, not necessarily. Like, there were scientific Nazis.
[64:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They were Nazis.
[64:54]
James McCann
Yeah.
[64:54]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Wernher von Braun used to hang the slowest. The five slowest Jews. I didn't know his. His rocket factory in Berlin, the Simon Wiesenthal center, said that if he was alive today, they would prosecute him for crimes against humanity.
[65:08]
James McCann
I mean, do you think that story got out when he was at NASA and everyone worked on it, they hit it.
[65:12]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, there was no Freedom of Information act releases. There was no Internet. When Operation Paperclip was first initiated, they got. I don't know what the number is of Nazi scientists, but it was more than a thousand.
[65:26]
James McCann
Yeah.
[65:27]
Tony Hinchcliffe
How many Nazi scientists put this into our wonderful ad sponsor, Perplexity, our AI sponsor that gives me all my information. How many Nazi scientists were brought over by the United States for Operation Paperclip?
[65:42]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
I don't know that there's an official number. This is what led me down my research, like 10 years ago, was this exact question.
[65:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right. But let's see what Perplexity has to say. I'm guessing I'm better. I'm gonna guess about 1500.
[65:54]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Also, as I'm looking this up, I will note that supposedly they were split up, like, evenly between the Soviets, states That's true.
[66:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. The Soviets took a bunch of them as well.
[66:03]
James McCann
I didn't know. I didn't know they divvied it up.
[66:04]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, I read a book about it a long time ago.
[66:09]
James McCann
I just started getting into the Soviet space program, I think. Great.
[66:13]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, yeah.
[66:14]
James McCann
Like, is it the Venus missions? Am I getting that right? Where they.
[66:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, yeah. They got a thing on Venus and took pictures.
[66:18]
James McCann
Yeah.
[66:19]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Sent them back.
[66:19]
James McCann
But then it was so. It was so hot that everything would like 1600. 1600.
[66:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Typically state that about 1600 German scientists, engineers and technicians were brought to the United States under Operation Paperclip. So I was pretty close to reel back, though.
[66:33]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
I was trying to dig through this article as you guys are talking about
[66:36]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Nixon getting pegged or. No, Reagan political plot to out Reagan.
[66:40]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah.
[66:41]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Group of Republicans tried to stymie what they alleged was a nefarious homosexual network within the campaign of their own party, Standard Bear.
[66:48]
James McCann
Oh, this is what I mean. He says something that sounds crazy what
[66:53]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
the answer is, but during it. It says, like while he was trying to pick a vice president, there's somewhere
[66:57]
Tony Hinchcliffe
in here, I mean, we had a theme president.
[67:01]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Someone had a tape of an orgy.
[67:03]
James McCann
Yes.
[67:05]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No.
[67:06]
James McCann
Yeah.
[67:06]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, didn't Reagan. Reagan frequented Bohemian Grove, Isn't that correct? I believe he did.
[67:15]
James McCann
Everybody.
[67:15]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah. A lot of people did.
[67:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right. But Reagan did. But you remember what Nixon said about Bohemian Grove?
[67:20]
James McCann
The place.
[67:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Goddamn faggiest thing I've ever seen.
[67:24]
James McCann
You've had Alex Jones talking about it.
[67:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yes, well, Alex Jones went. Yeah, Alex Jones told me about.
[67:30]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Right after he rent a homosexual act with Reagan.
[67:34]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Okay. It was not until a boozy lunch with a man claiming to have been a long time Reagan associate. However, the Best found what he believed to be the smoking gun, proving that Reagan was controlled by homosexuals. Bill, you don't understand the problem. The man told Best I once engaged in a homosexual act with Reagan.
[67:54]
James McCann
It was a different time.
[67:55]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yes. I don't. This. These are up until now in this article. These are rumors.
[68:00]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right.
[68:01]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
I don't know that this video ever came out, but there's interest.
[68:05]
James McCann
A very long article about it and Politico.
[68:08]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah.
[68:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Interesting.
[68:12]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
I was trying to find an answer and I didn't really get to this. This is a different time period in life too, that I don't. I wasn't even for her.
[68:19]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right. Wow.
[68:23]
James McCann
I don't believe it.
[68:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I do.
[68:25]
James McCann
I love Ring.
[68:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I do too. I love him too. But I think there's a lot of those guys that are like staunchly conservative and very buttoned down that are that way for a reason. And one of the reasons is they're trying to hide the fact that they're gay.
[68:37]
James McCann
I never understand this though because we've. There are lots where I'm from in south like conservative party, definitely gay guys, but thin. But like so like everybody knows, everybody's aware but they don't want it coming out and they never acknowledge. But like it just seems so strange you would want to not have a secret if you're a politician because otherwise people just get you to do what they want.
[69:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, but they have secrets and then they want to be politicians and then they just deal with all the people that know their secrets and then they make deals.
[69:09]
James McCann
But like, like there.
[69:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's how you stay in business.
[69:11]
James McCann
I wouldn't even say there are people in the United States Congress and Senate who are conservative. So we all go, yeah, that guy's gay.
[69:18]
Tony Hinchcliffe
100.
[69:19]
James McCann
Everybody knows. So you know.
[69:21]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
So I asked for the accuracy of this article and perplexity gave me a like summary. I guess that makes more sense than trying to make sense of a 20 page article in two minutes.
[69:32]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Okay. This comes from factual grounding and sources. One key factual bad. Scroll up a little bit on the no on the key factual backbone. The article lines up with other publicly documented material. Kirchik refers repeatedly to memos and notes from the Washington Post editor Ben Bradley's papers, including summaries by reporters Scott Armstrong and Ted Gupp. These papers are held in institutional archives and have been referenced in other discussions of Secret City. The 1967 Homosexual Ring allegations connected to Reagan Sacramento staff and Jack Kemp's is independently attested in contemporary press accounts including reporting that Reagan security chief investigated alleged homosexual activity and that columnist Drew Pearson raised these charges at the time. So here's the thing about gays. There's always a certain amount of gay people in a population and then it's whether or not the culture accepts them.
[70:34]
James McCann
Yes.
[70:35]
Tony Hinchcliffe
There's always a certain percentage.
[70:36]
James McCann
There's. Yes. People who are attracted to.
[70:38]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. No matter what you do, there's a certain percentage. And so if you've got enough people in Congress and enough people in the Senate. Enough. Enough people just in government in general.
[70:48]
James McCann
Yeah.
[70:49]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You're going to have an equivalent percentage of people that are gay. And if you are a person who wants to get to the top of the charts, like here's the thing that you don't think of what is you think Hollywood is very open. Right. Very non homophobic in fact celebrates diversity and celebrates LBGTQ people. Right. Yeah. I mean, but not. So here's the thing. One thing you can't be is an openly gay person. And being a male lead in films,
[71:23]
James McCann
I mean, that would make sense as to why people keep that quiet. I'm trying to think of one.
[71:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You can't.
[71:26]
James McCann
But you're an actor. No, you're right. That has still hasn't changed.
[71:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You can pretend to be a werewolf.
[71:30]
James McCann
Yeah.
[71:31]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But you can't pretend to be straight.
[71:33]
James McCann
You can't pretend to be straight.
[71:35]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. They won't allow you. So if you're gay, you have to pretend.
[71:39]
James McCann
Yeah.
[71:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You have to pretend you're not gay. Because you can't act in a movie where we know you're gay and you pretend to be straight. We won't buy it.
[71:46]
James McCann
But whenever there is a movie where there is gay person, they get it. Obviously straight. Like. Like in Milk. They don't get a gay guy to play that role. They get a straight guy to be gay.
[71:54]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
One example.
[71:55]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, but that's from that.
[71:56]
James McCann
He was never a tv. He was never a movie leading man.
[71:59]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Just.
[71:59]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
It's just one example, though.
[72:00]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I know, but he's a TV guy.
[72:02]
James McCann
But then people make allegations also.
[72:03]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's like he's got a. It's a cartoon character like that. How I met your mother. That's a cartoon character.
[72:11]
James McCann
Like.
[72:12]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Like straight guy. Like, you don't believe it at all. Like, first of all, he's not attractive. Like, in that way. He's not masculine. And the fact that he gets all these hot girls to have sex with him, none of it makes any sense.
[72:23]
James McCann
Did you see Gone?
[72:23]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's just writing. Yeah, I did.
[72:25]
James McCann
He. Where he's playing there was great. He was excellent.
[72:27]
Tony Hinchcliffe
He was great.
[72:28]
James McCann
I wish that movie eight times.
[72:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Awesome.
[72:30]
James McCann
I really. That helped me work through a lot of trauma with women, bro.
[72:34]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That movie was crazy. But the point is, like, you can't be an openly gay guy and be a movie star.
[72:39]
James McCann
Yes.
[72:40]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Because you won't be able to think of a camera on screen. Rather, there's not one. There's. I know. A bunch of closeted ones.
[72:47]
James McCann
Yes.
[72:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But there's no openly gay action movie star.
[72:56]
James McCann
Well, there were. Actually. There would be none. There's none.
[73:02]
Tony Hinchcliffe
There's. There's stars who I would say played gay people.
[73:06]
James McCann
A lot of guys play gay people.
[73:07]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You know, like what's his face? James Bond, English guy.
[73:11]
James McCann
Daniel Craig.
[73:12]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Daniel Craig.
[73:13]
James McCann
Knives out, he plays.
[73:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, that's right.
[73:16]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah.
[73:16]
James McCann
I was thinking of Milk.
[73:17]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. He plays a gay guy and Knives out. But he's not like Making out with anybody. He just, like, lives with a guy.
[73:22]
James McCann
I never. I never watched Knives out because I was so angry at. At the second Star wars movie I loved. It's the same director. Like, I was just. And I loved Looper. I thought Looper was.
[73:32]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You gotta let a guy have a dud or two every now and then.
[73:34]
James McCann
I hated that movie. I was one of those guys.
[73:36]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It was like, which one was that? What was it called?
[73:39]
James McCann
Oh, man. It was not Force Awakens. It was the one that came after that. It was.
[73:44]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What year is this?
[73:47]
James McCann
2017. I'm all over the place.
[73:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Don't you think, though, that I didn't watch any of the new ones? But don't you think, though, that when you are dealing. If you're dealing with a Star wars, those franchise movies you're dealing with and there's no way they just give you carte blanche. There's no way they just let you write a script, let you produce it, let you put it together, let you direct it the way you want. They have insane amounts of info.
[74:12]
James McCann
This one was so stylistically strange. Such a departure. He was making a Rise of Skywalker is. Yeah, maybe it's that one. Yeah. Is that it? Is that the second one?
[74:25]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Does anybody really give a shit about these new Star wars movies?
[74:29]
James McCann
Not anymore, but it was. You know, it was exciting. When George Lucas was doing it, at least he was like, we're gonna have a Jew alien and Korean aliens, and it's about trade wars. And he was like, they did that. Episode one. Oh, man. Episode one is a nightmare. If you go back and watch episode one one.
[74:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Which one's episode one?
[74:48]
James McCann
Episode one is like little Anakin and the pod racing. Jar Jar Banks is like a hugely troubled 1999. He's just speaking in a patch wire the whole time. But, I mean, it all has to end. I think. I think it's finally winding down. Like, the Marvel Cinematic Universe seems to be coming to a close.
[75:05]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Maybe back up. No, no Marvel, but Star Wars. They woke it up. They fucked it up. Yeah. They made it all, like this stupid woke message.
[75:15]
James McCann
That was the woke up one. That was the one where it was like it was. There were ladies who couldn't do anything wrong. And all the men and the ladies
[75:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
generals and the men are all terrified of them.
[75:23]
James McCann
Yeah.
[75:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So save it. This is nonsense. It's a time these. But these woke messages just destroy the actual film. Like, we were talking about this the other day that a feminist show that no one thinks of as a feminist show is. How is Game of Thrones, she turns into a. No, it's a completely feminist show. The women. Women are all badasses.
[75:46]
James McCann
Yes.
[75:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Every woman. Arya Stark, badass. Daenerys Targaryen, badass.
[75:51]
James McCann
Yeah.
[75:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Cersei Lannister, badass.
[75:53]
James McCann
Yeah.
[75:55]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Brienne of Tarth, badass.
[75:57]
James McCann
Yeah.
[75:57]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Kills. I mean, almost kills The Hound. They're all women.
[76:01]
James McCann
Yeah.
[76:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Women run everything. They're beasts. Sansa Stark, badass.
[76:05]
James McCann
And a lot of the men, they don't see things coming. They don't know how breathiness idiots get
[76:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
their heads chopped off. Yeah, they're retarded. The. The women keep the fucking civilization together. And they're the. The most dominant forces in the show.
[76:17]
James McCann
Yes.
[76:18]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[76:18]
James McCann
Sometimes they're lying. Like that nasty prostitute who hurt that midget man.
[76:22]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, she. But she was unfortunate in her choices.
[76:25]
James McCann
You thought. You think the Marvel thing is gonna. I think this. At some point they're gonna ramp it back up.
[76:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They have a new one.
[76:30]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
They brought back the Russo brothers and
[76:32]
Tony Hinchcliffe
they're bringing in doom. Dr. Doom's coming. Isn't that. Isn't that Robert Downey Jr. Playing doom as well? How does he do that? Wait until you see the movie, man. No, no, no, no, no, no. How is he? Iron man and Doom?
[76:47]
James McCann
Well, they both have iron.
[76:49]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, no. You're a new guy. I know Robert Downey Jr's great. You don't have to kill Iron Man. Bring Iron man back. Don't you have a multiverse? Can't you pull him back and put him into this current timeline?
[77:00]
James McCann
I don't. I'm looking forward to it.
[77:02]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I just don't like when you have a whole, like, universe and you have one guy playing two characters in the universe. As much as I love Robert Downey Jr. This is bothers the out of me as a comic book fan.
[77:14]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
They've already had that, though. Chris Evans is in Fantastic Four and
[77:17]
Tony Hinchcliffe
he's Captain America Boozy in Fantastic Four.
[77:21]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
The first Fantastic Four.
[77:22]
James McCann
No, they've been like four or five Fantastic Fours.
[77:25]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Four, three.
[77:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Really?
[77:26]
James McCann
There have been so many fantastic.
[77:28]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You're right. I never even remembered that.
[77:29]
James McCann
They can never get that one work.
[77:31]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Who does he play?
[77:32]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
That's sort of the joke in the Spider man movie. The multiverse one. Because like, they're. They bring them all back in the same movie and it's all confusing.
[77:39]
James McCann
Yeah.
[77:39]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
They bring all the bad guys back. Jamie Foxx is in the new Spider man and like, he was. That was old movie.
[77:44]
James McCann
Do you think they'll be post woke at this point? That's. I'm I got to watch movies for the first time on the plane over.
[77:49]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They'd have to lose all their money.
[77:52]
James McCann
That's starting to happen.
[77:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Start to come back.
[77:53]
James McCann
Did you see Begonia?
[77:55]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No.
[77:56]
James McCann
It was good. Stavi was in that and Emma was the guy who made the lobster. But that was. There were problems with it. But it was like a pointedly like a post in the. In the same vein of like White Lotus.
[78:06]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Okay.
[78:06]
James McCann
I think, yeah. Hollywood is trying to make self consciously post work movies. I got really annoyed by it and I thought some of it was cheap, but, like, I liked what they were going for.
[78:15]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah, it's fun.
[78:17]
James McCann
I thought the ending was fun.
[78:19]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Spoiler alert.
[78:19]
James McCann
I went out. I won't spoil nothing. I won't spoil nothing. But I did. I got. I would never have seen it if I wasn't on a flight watching 57 movies. American fiction was like a post work movie. There are like at the moment on delta flights.
[78:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What is American Fiction?
[78:31]
James McCann
American Fiction is a book about a. It's a black author who doesn't want to be considered a black author. He just wants to be an author he's sick of. And then he keeps seeing all these like terrible black books full of stereotypes that white liberals adore. So he writes a fake book called My Pathology and I think he later changes it to Fuck. He's just trying to like fuck with people. Go, I'll just write the blackest, dumbest books. So that white liberal and then white liberals do love it. And it was good. It was like. But it's like pointedly like mainstream and indie. You know, big studios are trying to make. They're trying to find some continuity from being Woke to. Now is this. That's box office.
[79:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
This is a mainstream film.
[79:11]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
That one is independent and one Independent Spirit Award.
[79:14]
James McCann
Okay, but Begonia wasn't.
[79:19]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What's it called again? The one you were just talking about.
[79:21]
James McCann
Begonia?
[79:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, the other one.
[79:22]
James McCann
Which one?
[79:22]
Tony Hinchcliffe
American Fiction.
[79:23]
James McCann
Yeah.
[79:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So American Fiction is independent.
[79:25]
James McCann
If that was. It might. I didn't know if it was independent. I looked it up. It made like tens of millions of dollars.
[79:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, but sometimes independent films that catch on, make good money.
[79:34]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Amazon to make a limited theatrical release.
[79:37]
James McCann
Okay, so they partner with Amazon. That's.
[79:39]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
I know it's slightly. I don't. I don't know.
[79:40]
James McCann
I would count that as a big studio.
[79:42]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, no. If you started it by yourself. You started by yourself and then you distribute it to Amazon.
[79:46]
James McCann
But who paid for it? Who was the.
[79:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Somebody probably financed it.
[79:49]
James McCann
The director was. Was he the onion guy?
[79:52]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
10 million dollar budget.
[79:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So the thing is, if you want to do something right, you kind of have to do it that way now. Like make it yourself and then bring it as a fully completed project. That way you don't have a bunch of people like the Star wars guy like in your ear telling you what to do and how to direct it.
[80:06]
James McCann
I recorded a comedy special years ago for Australia.
[80:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[80:09]
James McCann
And I thought I would just do it on my own and then I would sell it to the network.
[80:13]
Tony Hinchcliffe
How'd that go?
[80:14]
James McCann
They said, we like it. This is one of the most embarrassing phone calls I ever had. They said that we like it. It's very white. It's very mail. Yeah, it's me. It's just me. And he. They said, can you go out in five, like find five or six diverse comedians and record their specials as well? And then we could buy all six of them. As I was like it, I'll put it on YouTube. But that was the real request was would you find. Find a. Find an aboriginal fella, find a lady in a wheelchair, find some Chinese people and then you can have your one as well and we'll buy all six. It was. Yeah. That was probably the end of me thinking I could work with.
[80:54]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You can't work with people that aren't creatives. And that's what those people are. They're a bunch of people that are caught up in whatever the cultural moment is. Whatever they think. Like the winds of. The winds of discontent blow the hardest. Right. So the people that are gonna get the most upset are the wokies. They're the ones that are gonna complain the most about a lack of diversity. So to satisfy those people, they'll torch their own art. They'll fuck up the thing that they do best.
[81:20]
James McCann
I mean, you can work with totally non creative people. This was like. There's a Frank Zappa line about how working in the music industry was great when it was just a guy in a suit who didn't care. And as soon as people had some ideas. It was hard to make things.
[81:33]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Things right. When someone would tell you what to do and what not to.
[81:36]
James McCann
If it's a profit motive, that's great. You can work with those people.
[81:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. Right. But there's no pure profit motive people anymore. In, in. In terms of entertainment. They're all thinking about the cultural like tone.
[81:50]
James McCann
Yeah.
[81:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And what you're supposed to and not supposed to do and what. You're being on the right side of history now. And did you ever.
[81:57]
James McCann
Did you see the Patrice bit where he talked about how he liked working with mid level Jews. No, it's like, I like mid level Jews. I make them the money, they leave me alone.
[82:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That makes sense. Yeah. The people that get in your way, they all think they're doing it for a good cause. And we experienced that. Like, Stan, Hope and I, we're doing the man show on Comedy Central. There was a lot of that.
[82:18]
James McCann
Was there?
[82:18]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, dude. I don't. I don't even want to go into it, but there was. Whenever you're like, Ari experienced it when he was at Comedy Central, I know a lot of people that have experienced it at various networks where there's always some executives that want to impose their. And it's always liberal. They want to impose their progressive values on comedy. And it's like, you can't fucking do that if you want it to be funny. If you want it to be funny, you have to. It has to be in the language and in the mind, like, from the viewpoint of one person, one person's unique vision. One person's unique vision that they think is hilarious. And as soon as you start monkeying with that, as soon as you start adding stuff to that, as soon as you start watering it down, you're gonna kill it. You compromise it. It becomes a candidate for mediocrity.
[83:04]
James McCann
But how did they. Where did they start on the man show? They, like, get the girls off the trampolines?
[83:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, it was like, one of the things was they didn't want Joey Diaz coming out naked.
[83:14]
James McCann
Okay.
[83:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Okay. So we had an intro, and I said, this is what I want to do for the intro. I want Joey Diaz to come out. He's gonna burst through the door naked with Timbalands on, with a baseball hat on, and just say, let's get this party started and start dancing.
[83:28]
James McCann
Yeah, that's fun.
[83:28]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It was hilarious. And they didn't want to do it. So this is the scene, I guess.
[83:36]
James McCann
But you did get to put.
[83:37]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, well, we had to do it two ways. We had to do it their way.
[83:41]
James McCann
Sorry.
[83:41]
Tony Hinchcliffe
We did it their way first, and then when their way was. Was done, we did it with Joey. Everybody went fucking nuts. They all went nuts. It was awesome. But it's like they so strongly resisted that. That was the only way I wanted to do it. And I said, listen, we'll do it your way first, and then we'll it our way. Meanwhile, that version with Joey was what they used in all the promos. Yeah, of course they use that when they're like. And then Joey comes out naked. Was blurred out But. But you're just going to get a bunch of people who all also want to have their fingerprints on what you're doing.
[84:20]
James McCann
Yeah.
[84:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So they want to. They want to somehow or another change it. Even if it doesn't make sense, they would. What if your neighbor is a black guy who grew up with a white family?
[84:30]
James McCann
I.
[84:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What if your name. And then they. They want to like change it and then they have. How do you do. How you doing with the black guy who is the white family? Like, I didn't even add that. Come on, man. Yeah, come on, man. We gotta play ball. Like these dipshits want to add their own little ingredients into the soup with this.
[84:45]
James McCann
I mean, it's never been cheaper to make your own thing, I would have to think.
[84:49]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Never. You could do it on a cell phone. You could upload it to YouTube and AI is incredible.
[84:55]
James McCann
Yeah. There's a use for it. I hope it doesn't. I'm still uncomfortable about it. You're a board. You've. You're playing new music backstage. I didn't. I couldn't. I didn't pick it.
[85:06]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That was good, right?
[85:07]
James McCann
It's all good.
[85:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's.
[85:09]
James McCann
I find it frightening.
[85:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[85:10]
James McCann
I don't like it.
[85:11]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's White Rabbit. It's this Jefferson Airplane version of White Rabbit.
[85:16]
James McCann
Yeah.
[85:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But it's this bluesy new version of it. That's all AI. It's fantastic.
[85:22]
James McCann
There's one way you can upload. You just upload your. Your music or someone else's music and like it does all the mastering. Beautiful. It's spooky. I mean, it's the end of. It is the end. It's the end of something.
[85:33]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's the beginning.
[85:34]
James McCann
There are technical jobs that are just gone now.
[85:37]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Like, that's true.
[85:38]
James McCann
Yeah.
[85:38]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But there's not a lot of Morse code operators either.
[85:42]
James McCann
I think they should bring it back. Bring back.
[85:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I mean, coal powered fucking locomotives.
[85:50]
James McCann
Listen, the Amish, they seem happy they got their buggies.
[85:54]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Try having a conversation with them about space. They don't know jack shit.
[85:57]
James McCann
They don't have autism, so they can't do it.
[86:00]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They haven't had their backs.
[86:01]
James McCann
Talk to them about butter.
[86:05]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I think you're going to. You're going to experience great change. There's not a damn thing you can do about it. And so you just have to be Zen about it.
[86:13]
James McCann
I mean, some of the. I. It's been like over a year since we. The driverless cars came to Austin and I've been in a bunch of them, the Waymos and They're not spreading out across the country the way that I thought they would.
[86:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, they're in a lot of places. They're all over Los Angeles. They're in a lot of places.
[86:27]
James McCann
They're in there about three or four places. But, like, they should have displayed, obviously, the technology is there that no one should have to drive for a living. Like, it would be cheaper to have the Waymo. The technology's there. They're on the freeway now. I've never had one problem in a Waymo. I don't know how many I've been in.
[86:42]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They've had problems here. They've all got. Because there's so many of them. They all met up in an intersection and got locked up. Laris. Yeah, there was like a bunch of streets going into each other and they all came, and then no one knew what to do.
[86:55]
James McCann
But that's not as bad as, like, drunkenly t boning somebody.
[86:58]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Sure. But the thing is, don't drink and drive. Not let's let robots take our lives over.
[87:05]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Right.
[87:05]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's not the solution. I want the freedom of being able to hop in a fucking car and drive wherever I want.
[87:10]
James McCann
They're gonna take it.
[87:11]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's the problem. That's the problem. The problem is it's safer to have
[87:14]
James McCann
you off the road.
[87:15]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Exactly, exactly. They're going to say, statistically, you're more likely to die in a car accident if driven by a normal person than a robot.
[87:23]
James McCann
I bet they'll, you know, they'll give you. They'll offer little bonuses. They'll say, when all the humans are off the road, speed limits are going up two or three times or, you know, whatever they can handle. Their reflexes are better.
[87:35]
Tony Hinchcliffe
We know a lot of kids today are not driving. You know that A lot of kids today are just. They're just ordering Ubers and driving waymos.
[87:42]
James McCann
And I mean, I only got my driver's license at like 27.
[87:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Really?
[87:47]
James McCann
Yeah. I was just on buses and then we had a child and I was like, I better do it now. It's my favorite thing in the world.
[87:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Wow.
[87:52]
James McCann
I love driving.
[87:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Did you not want a driver's license or you just couldn't be bothered?
[87:56]
James McCann
I wasn't good at it. My parents were scared. My parents were like, I don't want to get in the car with you.
[88:02]
Tony Hinchcliffe
How are you so bad at it?
[88:03]
James McCann
I. I don't know.
[88:04]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Know.
[88:05]
James McCann
I don't know. I was very, like, I was uncoordinated until, like, I was at a late puberty at 16, 17, and then I became coordinated, but for a while then.
[88:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Interesting.
[88:15]
James McCann
Yeah. I don't know why.
[88:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Did anybody teach you how to. You were dropped in your head as a child. Interesting.
[88:21]
James McCann
Then I think with like. And then in my late teens, how
[88:23]
Tony Hinchcliffe
you dropped on your head.
[88:24]
James McCann
I fell out of a pram, out of a stroller. I unbuckled myself and I stood up and I fell down. I don't think it had any brain impact.
[88:31]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Of course it did.
[88:31]
James McCann
People disagree. Yeah.
[88:32]
Tony Hinchcliffe
100 it did.
[88:33]
James McCann
Big scar.
[88:34]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, yeah. You fucked your head up. That's why you're funny.
[88:38]
James McCann
Maybe 100%. I got the coordination back at some point, but I like.
[88:42]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So you really think it affected your coordination all the way up into puberty?
[88:46]
James McCann
Yeah, because it was. I was able to play sport at high school after I'd hit puberty, but only after puberty and only sports that didn't really matter if I had all the skills. So like football, everyone's been doing it since they were four and they really know how to do it. So I was just like, no, it didn't matter that I could figure it out now. Everyone had 10 years on me.
[89:03]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right.
[89:04]
James McCann
But I became an okay field hockey goalkeeper.
[89:07]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh.
[89:07]
James McCann
I had like one season in the top team as the field hockey because no one wanted to do it. No one's really trained to do it.
[89:13]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right.
[89:13]
James McCann
And it's just having fast reflexes. So that was fine. Or like. I became okay at badminton because it was just me and the Asians, you know, like tennis. There was no way to get good at tennis.
[89:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right. You need a head start.
[89:25]
James McCann
Squash, I could do a little bit. Bit. But badminton's a great game. Met a lot of Malaysians.
[89:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So. Did you have a problem moving your body correctly?
[89:35]
James McCann
Yeah, like I couldn't catch a bull.
[89:37]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Huh. And you think it had to do with your head injury?
[89:40]
James McCann
I. Well, I have no idea.
[89:42]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Do you have brothers or sisters?
[89:43]
James McCann
I have a brother. He's fine.
[89:44]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Is he an athlete?
[89:46]
James McCann
No, I mean, he. He was. He. He also. He was younger than me, so I was in badminton. So he was. And he was really good at badminton. Yeah. He's a hyper competitive. He was always good at sport. Compared to me, it was much better. But then I could. Like when I came to America and I started throwing a foot when I figured out I could throw a football. That was huge.
[90:04]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Is your brother funny?
[90:05]
James McCann
Yes. Yeah. He actually. He got me into. I thought comedy was over. This is how I met Shane is. He took me to go and see Shane. I was sort of. This was. I don't know how many years ago, four years ago. And I was sort of. I didn't know what was. I'd had. I had a 3 year old by that point and a new baby on the way. And just in Australia, nothing was interesting to me and my career wasn't happening. And he said, you should come and see this guy who got fired from snl. I didn't know him. And I sat in the audience and I watched Shane perform for three or four hundred people in our hometown. And I was like, oh, fuck, it's back. Like, it's happening. I knew there were a couple people on Netflix. I knew, like, you had Netflix specials and Bill Burr and Louis, but it was like, these people are grandfathered in. No one is ever gonna be able to come through and be, you know, controversial. No one in my generation is gonna be given an opportunity.
[90:56]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And then I saw you just thought that new comedians were not gonna make it in Australia.
[91:01]
James McCann
I can't. I can't say enough how there's like a. It's been 20 years since someone got to be successful. Jim Jeffries never in Australia. He had to leave.
[91:13]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Really.
[91:14]
James McCann
Even now, the Melbourne Comedy Festival, notoriously, will not work with people who have worked with Jim Jeffries.
[91:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What?
[91:22]
James McCann
That's a black stain on your character.
[91:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So if you open for him, you can't work at the.
[91:26]
James McCann
They don't like you and they're not gonna give you opportunities. That's what people say. That's what I've heard. And everything that I've seen leads me. Cause he's not their person. Fuck him. They think of him as an extreme. In America, he's like a liberal. And in Australia, he's far right dangerous man. How could he say that?
[91:43]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's what it is.
[91:44]
James McCann
That's what it is.
[91:45]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's his politics.
[91:45]
James McCann
Oh, yeah.
[91:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's not that he didn't come up through their system.
[91:50]
James McCann
Well, he didn't come. I mean, he just left.
[91:52]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right.
[91:52]
James McCann
But he. I think he didn't like them. They didn't like him. I mean, there are people who have left and not been part of their system that they've totally gotten around. But what he is is like a manly man.
[92:03]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And they don't like that.
[92:04]
James McCann
Oh, no. Oh, no, no. They want you to be a cardigan. Excuse me, I won't. Go on and on.
[92:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Go on and on.
[92:11]
James McCann
It's. There's like, there was a generation of lost talent in Australia. Like, great. John Cruikshank. Fantastic. Where's his show? You could name 15 people, but, like,
[92:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
there Was no opportunities for them.
[92:23]
James McCann
It was hilariously gatekeeped.
[92:28]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Never good.
[92:29]
James McCann
No. So I didn't. I just thought.
[92:32]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So this is your perspective from Australia. You never thought there was ever gonna be an opportunity to make it as a comic.
[92:37]
James McCann
My brother liked. I had kids. I had stopped paying attention to the outside world. My brother had not. And he took me to go and see Shane. He was like, you should see this man. And it was fantastic. And I talked my way backstage. Cause I knew the opener. Cause I didn't get to, but I knew the opener. And then I got to meet him and Matt and then I got to go to Melbourne and open for him. And then I came. Then I came to America.
[92:58]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Were you doing any standup before you opened for him in Melbourne? Had you been practicing?
[93:01]
James McCann
Yeah, I was doing stand up around constantly still. But I would do. I would just have 50 or 100 people in a different city and I would show up and make enough money for the flight and like an extra thousand bucks or something. But it was like I couldn't pay rent that way. I couldn't.
[93:15]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right. You were scratching by.
[93:16]
James McCann
It was. Yeah. It was struggling. That's why when we did come to. When I got the Catholic job and I came to America, it was all I borrowed from everybody. Like I was in thousands of dollars of debt to family and friends.
[93:28]
Tony Hinchcliffe
How did Arj Barker make it in Australia?
[93:31]
James McCann
He did a show called Flight of the Concords. He was on that. And he was beloved by the festival and he did lots of gala spots and we really. There's a couple.
[93:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So it's the festival.
[93:40]
James McCann
The festival broke everybody. Yeah.
[93:42]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So that controls comedy in Australia.
[93:44]
James McCann
Yes. There's a guy called Rodney Rood who's really funny, who was before that.
[93:49]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Is he in the festival?
[93:49]
James McCann
He's not in the festival.
[93:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
He can't be in the festival.
[93:52]
James McCann
He would go to like RSLs and things. He has. Great. Get out of here, you harmless fuck. That's a great bit.
[93:57]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Okay.
[93:58]
James McCann
Kevin bloody Wilson. But these are like that older generation. Yeah. After that though, it was so.
[94:05]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's captured it's gate kept by one
[94:07]
James McCann
ideology, by one lady running one festival. No disrespect. I'm sure she's very nice. I don't want to talk her down. I would have loved an opportunity once. Anyway, it doesn't matter. I don't need you anymore.
[94:23]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Wow, that's never good. It's never good because people with that kind of power, they also abuse it. They. They really enjoy it.
[94:30]
James McCann
How could you not? You don't you got hundreds of desperate people who are, please, give me an opportunity.
[94:36]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I've got that. I don't do it.
[94:39]
James McCann
No, but you're a very strange person. And you're alone, but not. That's why people love you. But there's definitely. There are casting couches.
[94:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. But you could just be nice and being nice and helping people, especially talented people. It gives you great satisfaction. You feel great about it. Yeah, it's. I always tell people it's really selfish to be generous because it feels great. Yeah, it's wonderful to help people. Feels fucking awesome. And it's great to see people thrive and take off. It's fun. It's exciting. And then you hang out with them in the green room and it's just all joy.
[95:10]
James McCann
Also, I don't know. They don't do that. They're helping a lot of people who have very specific.
[95:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, no, no.
[95:15]
James McCann
Ideology.
[95:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Listen, that. We don't have that. Like, our ideology is the opposite. Our ideology is. Are you funny?
[95:22]
James McCann
Yeah.
[95:22]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I don't give a. If you're liberal and funny or like.
[95:25]
James McCann
It was very.
[95:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Brian Holtzman
[95:29]
James McCann
was on last night, and she was like. She was a big lefty. She's a dear friend, and she's gonna open for me this weekend. But she was, like, in New York. She was raised in Sacramento. She went to New York. She was like, a very lefty, progressive person. And I remember, like, even nights at the mothership where she would scream at the audience, you're a fucking fascist.
[95:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[95:47]
James McCann
Like, she was really, like, baked in. And they loved it. People. They said, lefty lady, just, like, off her nut, angry at everybody.
[95:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Just if you're funny and people were.
[95:54]
James McCann
It was fun. There is no equivalent of that.
[95:56]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, you just have to be funny.
[95:58]
James McCann
Yeah.
[95:58]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Like, it's all just funny. Like, if you're funny, Lefty funny, funny. Brian Holtzman funny. Tony Hinchliff funny.
[96:05]
James McCann
Yeah.
[96:05]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It doesn't matter. Just be funny. Just work on your stuff. Work on it. Like, really put a lot of time and energy into your craft. Come up with great bits.
[96:13]
James McCann
When I'm on these flights, I'm watching, like, all the official, sanctioned, like, non Netflix specials, but some of them that are on HBO and some are on Hulu. And it's people who. There's a weird way that audiences. Like, I'm watching, like, official mains, whatever. Like, it's not mainstream because the audiences are tiny by comparison. But, you know, I mean, like, sort of like orthodox sanctioned comedy in America, and the jokes are so mild and so. But then the Audience is like, supposedly there's a lot of women in the audience. Yeah.
[96:43]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They're all on antidepressants.
[96:44]
James McCann
They sound crazy.
[96:45]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They are crazy.
[96:46]
James McCann
It's like cheap nothing. Punchlines.
[96:49]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Exactly.
[96:49]
James McCann
And it's just at the slightest. My boy. I couldn't even. Yay,
[96:56]
Tony Hinchcliffe
it's Clapter. Right. So you're also reinforcing their ideology. So they're very excited about it because they kind of realize their ideology is very fringe and dying out. As much as it's perpetrated through Hollywood, it's rejected by a lot of rational people.
[97:10]
James McCann
It's over.
[97:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, it's over.
[97:12]
James McCann
I was watching. I went to a bar last night and I watched the Tonight show, and God bless everybody involved. But it's like, okay, well, this is done. This is winding down. This is not a cultural. This was the most like, the Tonight
[97:23]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Show's winding down just in terms of
[97:25]
James McCann
how many people are watching it. And, like, you know, going. Doing a set on a Tonight show used to be that was it. Right. Johnny Carson moved tickets on the ride on Johnny Carson. And now people are going, that's his 15th Tonight show appearances.
[97:37]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But it kind of died out even before then. Like, the impact of the Jay Leno sets. Like, if you did a set on Jay Leno's Tonight show, it didn't have nearly the impact that Johnny Carson did. And that's just because by then, there was so many channels.
[97:49]
James McCann
Yeah.
[97:49]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So when Johnny Carson was on the Tonight show, there was three channels in the country. Yeah. You know, that's how crazy it was. And then slowly but surely, cable came around, Fox came around, all these other networks, and then everything just expanded. Now you have streaming, and now it's insane. Now the numbers are over at the
[98:08]
James McCann
end of Carson for that.
[98:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, I believe so.
[98:09]
James McCann
Okay.
[98:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I believe by the time Jay Leno came around, like, when did Jay Leno first start hosting the Tonight show?
[98:16]
James McCann
Let's guess early 90s, mid-90s, probably.
[98:20]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So that was right around the time cable was coming out. Yeah, cable changed everything. So with cable, you got. First of all, you got evening, the improv, mtv, half hour, comedy hour, Spotlight Cafe. There was a bunch of different shows that were on a bunch of different networks. There was all these comedy shows that were all over the place.
[98:38]
James McCann
92.
[98:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
92. Which makes sense because, like, that's when cable started becoming really ubiquitous in America. Like, and then you have so many channels. So the impact of a single show was not the same anymore. Because during the. Let's find this out. During the height of the Tonight show, what was the average viewer?
[99:00]
James McCann
This is spooky.
[99:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I bet it's like 40 million.
[99:04]
James McCann
What's like. I think the. I mean, even by the end of Friends, like sitcom.
[99:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But that's different because that's. That's earlier. So the Tonight show is late at night.
[99:12]
James McCann
Like, just average Tonight Show. Yeah.
[99:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
See, this is the thing to tonight shows. 11:00pm that's after the fucking news. That's late at night, right?
[99:20]
James McCann
Yes.
[99:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Isn't it 11? Is that when it starts? Or 10? When's the Tonight show start?
[99:25]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
It's 11:30 East, 10:30 Central.
[99:28]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Okay. It was like 11:30 in New York.
[99:30]
James McCann
Is it a million people? How many now? No. Then what would. What would it be then?
[99:35]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What do you mean? The viewers?
[99:36]
James McCann
Yeah. Like how many people?
[99:37]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Way more than a million.
[99:38]
James McCann
Like 10 million.
[99:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, yeah. Easily the. The Tonight show viewers. I Bet it was 30. What is average Tonight show viewers in 1980? Let's say 19.
[99:50]
James McCann
Like 15 of the country, bro.
[99:52]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It was that big. It was where people went to find out what was going on, what movies were coming out, what bands were coming out, what comics were funny. I remember. So let's try 1980. Average viewers of the Tonight show in 1980.
[100:10]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
It's giving me a rating. Not the numbers.
[100:14]
James McCann
Oh, it's like as a percentage, what
[100:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
were the average number of viewers on the tonight show in 1980? Let's see,
[100:28]
James McCann
how many?
[100:29]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Six to seven million.
[100:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Six to seven million was average. This is eight to ten.
[100:33]
James McCann
But by. Yeah, so. But like.
[100:36]
Tony Hinchcliffe
All right, even eight to ten.
[100:37]
James McCann
But what is it now?
[100:38]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Six to seven? Let's think of that. God.
[100:40]
James McCann
A hundred thousand?
[100:41]
Tony Hinchcliffe
A ten thousand? No, I don't even know if it's that. And here's the thing about ratings. The ratings are very weird because it's based on this. You have boxes that are connected to your television. Do you know how it works?
[100:54]
James McCann
Yeah.
[100:54]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So these. The way these ratings work is they get a certain number of people, and the certain number of people you actually pay. They pay these people to have this box, and then some of them have to fill out a form. I don't know how that works, but. And then it just records what you're watching, watching. And so it's just based on these people. So it's not the whole country.
[101:14]
James McCann
We did it.
[101:15]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But with, like, Netflix, it's a different animal. They know the exact number of people.
[101:20]
James McCann
They know when people are tuning out. They know which shot is upsetting people.
[101:23]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's crazy. They know the moment where people tune out. Yeah, well, they also have an insane Amount of options, like if you're bored even slightly, you press a button, you have new options and they're instantaneous. Back then you had two other options other than whatever. Was it NBC? Tonight Show? Was it NBC?
[101:43]
James McCann
Yeah, we got different channels. But Tonight Show, I'm, I'm, I'm nostalgic for that. I only had that until I was like 10.
[101:50]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[101:51]
James McCann
But it was. I've started watching TV again, but you feel like I'm role playing in my living room when I have a beer and I watch like terrestrial broadcast now. Like I watch Survivor with my family at night.
[102:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Night and with commercials and everything.
[102:03]
James McCann
Man. I watched the lead in. I watched the new Matlock afterwards for five minutes before I get sick of it and turn it off. Yeah, I watch who Wants to Be a Millionaire beforehand.
[102:11]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's for people that are on heavy pharmaceutical jobs. It's for people that's nice.
[102:16]
James McCann
It feels like open the world.
[102:18]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Their mouth is open, their senses are dulled. Like I was this. I started doing Committed a crime, they better solve it. There's only 10 minutes left.
[102:26]
James McCann
I would have friends come up. This is what I've started doing at home.
[102:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Watch tv. Tv.
[102:31]
James McCann
We only Australian Survivor, which is, I think the world's finest.
[102:36]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Is it still Jeff Probst or is a different host?
[102:38]
James McCann
No, it's a different host. The other Australian guy we had Jonathan Lapallier, who was Anthony Lapalia's brother, but then he got shafted. It's very upsetting. They got a new host.
[102:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Jonathan. Anthony Sapala. The actor.
[102:49]
James McCann
Yeah. Jonathan Pali was very good. We still got the shaft. No. And I don't know why.
[102:54]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No one knows.
[102:54]
James McCann
I don't know. But he was great.
[102:57]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Maybe it was wrong think, you know,
[103:00]
James McCann
I've never heard him express an opinion. He would do a lot of sexual double entendre during the show.
[103:05]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, it was that.
[103:05]
James McCann
The other good one is the South African Survivor.
[103:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Is it?
[103:08]
James McCann
Yeah, because they've got the accent, so all the challenges feel way nastier. Look at that. He's struggling now. He's really starting to sweat. He's digging into his feet. He's in a lot of pain. I love South African Survivor.
[103:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They had a bunch of different versions of Fear Factor that I wasn't even aware of.
[103:24]
James McCann
Different countries got Fear Factor.
[103:25]
Tony Hinchcliffe
A hundred hundred. A hundred different countries.
[103:27]
James McCann
They get guys who are like you. Is it like I'm saying?
[103:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I'm just joking. I mean, they had a. Some. Someone. Yeah, it was like that.
[103:33]
James McCann
You know, that would be funny to see who they like because they would be trying to replicate you.
[103:40]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Not necessarily. Like, Ludacris didn't try to replicate me when he did it.
[103:44]
James McCann
They got ludicrous to do it.
[103:45]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, America.
[103:46]
James McCann
I didn't know it was a very
[103:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
short amount of time. And now Johnny Knoxville's doing it, and he's doing it his own way, too.
[103:52]
James McCann
Sure.
[103:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's a pretty straightforward show, though. You don't have to do it my way. But what I was good at is because I came from a background in martial arts coaching. Like, I had students and I would bring them to tournaments and I coach them at tournaments. I was really good at getting people fired up, you know, and I'd coach teammates. Like, I would be in the corner of teammates and I'd coach them and I'd train people, like, hard. One of the reasons why I got really good at Taekwondo so quickly is because I taught. And when you teach something, there's something interesting. And I've noticed that about jiu Jitsu as well. When you teach something, you get better at it, like exponentially better than people that are just training.
[104:27]
James McCann
I mean, with comedy, there's a huge faux power against teaching.
[104:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You can't teach it. No, you can't teach comedy. It's different. Like, you do it so different than I do it. I do it so different than Shane. Shane does it so different than that.
[104:37]
James McCann
I maintain there are things you could teach people. Like when people come on Kill Tony and they haven't been doing it for very long. There are key things that you can tell people. Yeah, you must stop doing that. You've got to hold the microphone like this. We've got to be able to hear you.
[104:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, that's true.
[104:49]
James McCann
And I think people waste a lot of time not knowing those. I mean, they could look it up.
[104:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But didn't you figure those things out? Yeah, yeah. So it's people that aren't that aware in the first place. And that's a problem to begin with. So what it is is a lack of self examination. Yeah. A lot of what these problems are, you could solve yourself if you just recorded yourself or filmed yourself. Filmed is the best.
[105:10]
James McCann
Yes.
[105:11]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Recorded is pretty good. Film is 100%. So filming, you get to see all the things you hate about yourself, all the things that are gross, all the weird, stupid parts of your bits that you need to chop out and they make you uncomfortable and it's good. And you just. Oh, fuck that bit. Fuck this. Cut this, put that. Oh, here's another. I didn't even think of this. And then boom.
[105:29]
James McCann
I mean, that's doing at the moment. I'm finding it heartbreaking because you're just
[105:32]
Tony Hinchcliffe
getting back into like real world again.
[105:34]
James McCann
Oh, I did.
[105:35]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You were trapped on.
[105:37]
James McCann
I was doing hours in Australia and I knew that, like, some of it would translate in America and some of it wouldn't. And man, it is just. I'm losing 80%, I'm losing, which is great. I tried to overwrite so I would have more than I needed, but.
[105:49]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So did you have a lot of Australian based jokes? Like local jokes?
[105:52]
James McCann
Eventually I had to, like. I started out trying to do no, nothing local. And what happened? He's just there and the prime minister does something appalling and you start talking
[106:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
about, oh, yeah, you're gonna have to have some stuff. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. Anything about your politics will not translate over here.
[106:08]
James McCann
Not a.
[106:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Not at all give a fuck. You don't have nuclear weapons. Shut the fuck up. You're not even a real country.
[106:15]
James McCann
I'm trying to sort us out.
[106:17]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Did you see what happened yesterday that the FBI has. Has indicted the Southern Poverty Law center on what? Paying n to protest. So this was something that Alex Jones had said. You remember that Charlottesville tiki torch thing years ago? Alex Jones said back then that they were being paid. That these are paid actors to go and do that. People thought he was insane.
[106:39]
James McCann
Yeah.
[106:40]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Turns out it's true. Turns out they were paying the Ku Klux Klan. They were paying a bunch of these, like far right radical organizations giving them money to protest so they would have something to fight against.
[106:53]
James McCann
We're going to the Capitol over here.
[106:56]
Tony Hinchcliffe
DOJ charges Southern Poverty Law center with fraud over secret funding of extremist groups. I was mad fucking crazy.
[107:04]
James McCann
I just saw that the Onion is buying Infowars and turning into like an anti gun advert. And it's like it's a $1.5 billion thing. He had to pay for getting one thing wrong one time.
[107:13]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[107:14]
James McCann
How many things did he have to be right about?
[107:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
He's right about a lot, I'll tell you that. And the Onion thing, I don't even know if other people were allowed to bid. I don't know how that worked out, but I think there was other people that were trying to bid that could.
[107:24]
James McCann
Couldn't. That's hinky.
[107:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That were like, supporters of Alex Jones.
[107:28]
James McCann
Yeah.
[107:31]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So let's go back up. Stop.
[107:34]
James McCann
Hold on.
[107:35]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Between 2014 and 2023, Southern Poverty Law center paid at least $3 million to eight individuals, some of whom were associated with the Ku Klux Klan. United Klans of America, National Socialist Party of America, Aryan nations affiliated Sadistic Souls Motorcycle Club. That's a mouthful. And the American Front said acting U.S. attorney General Todd Blanche at the press conference. Holy fuck.
[108:02]
James McCann
Manufacturing. Well, this is what you said before about people who need homelessness to keep going.
[108:06]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, this is what's crazy. But this is what's crazy. These people were cited as an expert in extremist groups.
[108:13]
James McCann
Yeah.
[108:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And they were paying extremist groups in order to be extreme.
[108:18]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
They said they were paying for like information, I think.
[108:22]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right.
[108:23]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
They were. They like had them planted there or something like that.
[108:28]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Shut the up. No, you weren't.
[108:30]
James McCann
Have you ever been.
[108:31]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Listen, they. It's just like what Israel gets accused of doing with Hamas. That, that Netanyahu has said by getting money and giving to Hamas, you keep Hamas in power and you can control the height of the flame. So instead of letting Palestine get its own state statehood, you keep Hamas in charge. You always have an enemy and you always have no reason to give Palestine statehood.
[108:54]
James McCann
Well, people, I, I don't know how deep people went into what happened on the security on October 7, like how that was allowed to happen.
[109:00]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's not a total stand down.
[109:02]
James McCann
Yeah.
[109:02]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Like people were told to stand down. Like how, first of all, it's the most surveilled country on earth.
[109:08]
James McCann
On guards everywhere.
[109:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
On guards everywhere, surrounded by their enemy. And somehow or another these guys pulled this off when they were warned by Egypt as well.
[109:16]
James McCann
Yeah.
[109:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Also here's another thing. Before that happened, before that happened, before October 7th, hundreds of thousands of people in the street protesting against Netanyahu.
[109:27]
James McCann
Did you read about why it's so strange? Because their constitution, they don't have a set constitution. They're writing their constitution in real time. They add one article at a time. I think I'm getting this right. And it was Israel was always meant to be a home for the Jews. And that he made it expressly a Jewish state. That it would be like.
[109:50]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I thought they were expanding the powers of the government.
[109:52]
James McCann
Am I getting this? It was, it was that the government. Yes. That was part of the government's powers is that the government then had the power to act on behalf of Jewish interest. Interests. So it's like they could take, they could exclude certain areas from voting if it would mean. And citizenship.
[110:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Please put in a search for what was the reason why people were protesting Netanyahu before October 7th.
[110:18]
James McCann
I'm getting this, right?
[110:19]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I think you are.
[110:20]
James McCann
That he was stopping it being a secular constitution.
[110:23]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I think that was one of the things but there was also something in that they were expanding the government's powers and people were protesting against it.
[110:31]
James McCann
Also the corruption that charges that he's facing. Yes, great.
[110:35]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, and also they want to try him. And he's saying, you can't try me because we're at war. And so if the war never ends. Yeah, it keeps bombing Lebanon. And people are primarily protesting Netanyahu because his government was pushing a sweeping judicial overhaul that many Israelis saw as an attack on democracy and a way to shield him and his allies from accountability. Judicial overhaul plan. Netanyahu's coalition introduced reforms to greatly limit the powers of Israel's Supreme Court and increase political control over judicial appointments. Critics argued this would remove key checks and balances and allow the government to pass almost anything without effective legal oversight. I mean, this guy has been in charge of Israel forever.
[111:18]
James McCann
I will say this thing forever. Having your leaders be up on corruption charges is happening. I mean, they tried it with, like, in Brazil.
[111:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's like with Bolsonaro, but also. And with Lula.
[111:29]
James McCann
Lula before then. I mean, Trump, if he hadn't won, they would have got him in jail
[111:34]
Tony Hinchcliffe
on something, most likely. I mean, they were trying to get him in jail on anything.
[111:38]
James McCann
Yeah. You've got to not chase politicians through the courts as best you can. I mean, if people really have done the wrong thing, maybe you have to hold them to account.
[111:45]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, it depends on what. I don't think Netanyahu's. I don't know what his allegations are, but apparently they're very serious to the point where they're trying to try him while the war is going on. They want to try him now.
[111:58]
James McCann
Yeah.
[112:00]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Israel, like, really locks up their politicians. They actually. They actually follow through on these things. Yeah, but I don't know enough about their politics to know whether or not he's guilty of anything.
[112:12]
James McCann
It's the look. The look is not great. I mean, like, the fucking look of,
[112:15]
Tony Hinchcliffe
like, they call a ceasefire and he bombs Lebanon. That's not great either.
[112:18]
James McCann
The next day. Ukraine is meant to have an election at some point. I think they just.
[112:23]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, no, no.
[112:23]
James McCann
It's been a while.
[112:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
We have a war.
[112:24]
James McCann
Well, it's been a while.
[112:25]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Can't have an election while war's going on. If America can.
[112:28]
James McCann
You did it in the civil war.
[112:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, well, if we did that today, if Trump said, hey, I have to stay president because we're at war, people would go fucking crazy. They would light New York City on fire. There's no chance. Yeah, that's nuts.
[112:44]
James McCann
So you get what you're willing to tolerate as a country, people start taking
[112:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
the elections away, I guess. But I think that what's going on in Israel is particularly spooky because you've got these people that. That supposedly came to this place to get away from the persecution that they were facing all throughout Europe. Right. And so what's the first thing they do? Well, immediately take out the people that are living there. You have the nakba, where people are talking about it and talking about the experience of these. Going into these Palestinian neighborhoods and taking over their land.
[113:17]
James McCann
But that is how you build a country. You have to put.
[113:19]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I mean, America, you guys take a spot where there's no one there.
[113:22]
James McCann
No one is. No one is going to that one sliver of land between Egypt and Sudan.
[113:28]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, it's also has a biblical. There's a biblical significance to that area.
[113:33]
James McCann
Sure. Everybody wants it.
[113:35]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. It's like, that is a. I mean, it's Jerusalem. I mean, the. The significance of that and the fact. It's really ironic that the people that don't even believe Jesus is the Messiah are the ones that are controlling Jerusalem, which is kind of hilarious.
[113:50]
James McCann
I don't know. The church, Catholics, I don't think we ever gave up our right to it.
[113:55]
Tony Hinchcliffe
To Jerusalem?
[113:56]
James McCann
Yeah.
[113:56]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Really?
[113:57]
James McCann
I'm pretty sure. I mean, the Catholics, we didn't. The Vatican City didn't have, like, an embassy in Israel until, like, the 60s and 70s.
[114:05]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It was the old school Vatican, like back in the Roman days. I bet they would declare war on Israel and take.
[114:10]
James McCann
I want the guy with the silver mask doing that. I think, yeah, that's what you want. I just did. You know Winston, the guy from. You know Winston? You saw him last night. We met last night. I did his podcast. And, yeah, he's all about the Crusades. He's trying to get me geared up about. I don't know enough about him, but
[114:27]
Tony Hinchcliffe
he was like, oh, researching.
[114:29]
James McCann
Yeah. But he kept trying to nudge me to be like, did you like the Crusades? It's like, I don't know. I think.
[114:34]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Why is he a fan?
[114:35]
James McCann
I got the impression that he was waiting to say that that was great,
[114:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
that it was a good thing for the world. What?
[114:42]
James McCann
I don't know yet. I don't know. I haven't read enough about it. My gut impulse is that they might have been great.
[114:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Really?
[114:49]
James McCann
Well, not always. No. War is. You know, but something about. I don't know. Every time I see that meme where there's that, like, that music playing and the guy with the silver mask from Kingdom of Heaven. And he's doing that, I think. Yeah.
[115:04]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You like that?
[115:04]
James McCann
Yeah. Let's get in there.
[115:05]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Interesting.
[115:06]
James McCann
But, you know.
[115:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, the crazy thing to me about the Israel, Palestine thing is this idea that they're going to turn Gaza into some sort of a resort.
[115:15]
James McCann
You seen the. I went. Spoiled the Tim Dillon.
[115:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Tim Dillon bit. It's amazing. Amazing bit. Have you heard his rant on the Epstein files? Like, I posted it on Twitter. He did a. Like a podcast all about the Epstein.
[115:27]
James McCann
Yes, I did. Yeah. No, I. I read. I saw that once.
[115:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I was clapping in my.
[115:30]
James McCann
He's doing. He's on fine form.
[115:33]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, this is. This. The kind of chaos that is going on in the world today is perfect for a guy like him.
[115:39]
James McCann
Well, he can also keep up with it. I can do it for a few days at a time, but he's very
[115:44]
Tony Hinchcliffe
well up on it. I called him last night on the way home from the club.
[115:46]
James McCann
Yeah.
[115:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
We talked for like 20 minutes. And he's just all like, keyed up on everything that's happening.
[115:51]
James McCann
Brew, it's gonna be okay.
[115:54]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No one knows. I mean, what's going on with Iran's. The ceasefire. Supposedly they extended it and.
[115:59]
James McCann
And.
[115:59]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But then they're shooting at ships.
[116:01]
James McCann
Why is there a war? This is. I got into this argument about like, what is, like, whether. Cause the Pope has said it's not a just war. But I don't know, the reason. I thought that the reason they had given was regime change, that they wanted to get different people in charge.
[116:17]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, people have wanted people out of Iran, the people that are running Iran for 47 years, but no one has actually gone and done it the way this administration did it. And it doesn't make sense they choose to do it when they did it. Like, what made sense was maybe kind of makes sense when they dropped that bunker buster bomb to disable their nuclear plant or nuclear weapons manufacturing.
[116:41]
James McCann
But then that just sort of wound down.
[116:43]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, that kind of. That was like, that's it. But then we went back into Iran. I'm like, what happened?
[116:50]
James McCann
I mean, like, what.
[116:50]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What caused that?
[116:51]
James McCann
Trump gave that. So he said the protests happen, and then he gives the speech going, you know, the people have to rise up and replace the rule. But it doesn't seem to be happening.
[117:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, a lot of people got killed. A lot of people trying to rise up got killed. They actually just put a halt on executing some women today. And they're gonna let some of them. Iran has decided. Trump made a truth social Post about it. I'll send it to you, Jamie. Yeah, but I think the idea is that they're trying to negotiate about something, you know, And I don't know how this is ever gonna work out. You know, I really don't know.
[117:31]
James McCann
But, like, in Venezuela, they took out.
[117:33]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But that was a totally different experience.
[117:35]
James McCann
I was just in and out quickly. But then everyone who was around, all the cronies around him, they're now, like, on board with America. That was just a full 180. That doesn't seem to be happening with the new, possibly dead Ayatollah. Do we know if he's dead?
[117:49]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, we don't know if he's dead. Good. I mean, I heard there's a. The new Ayatolla might be dead. I've heard he's not. I heard the military is now taken over. I don't know. It's hard to know.
[118:02]
James McCann
I hope they can figure it out.
[118:04]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But these ladies were set to be executed, and apparently they're going to release half of them, and the other half of them are going to do one month in prison. And so this is a.
[118:14]
James McCann
It's a pretty different sentence.
[118:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So to the Iranian leaders who will soon be in negotiations with my representatives, I would greatly appreciate the release of these women. I'm sure they do and will respect it. No, no, there's been a. Another one. Did I send you that I just
[118:28]
James McCann
found at the same time? I think you sent it.
[118:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Okay. But I think what I sent you is different because I think what I sent you is actually saying very good news. So click on the link that I sent you.
[118:36]
James McCann
There was a weird thing with their soccer team. They were playing in Australia.
[118:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yes.
[118:40]
James McCann
And then we let them stay.
[118:42]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yes.
[118:42]
James McCann
And I think their families were getting threatened and some of them went home. It was not a.
[118:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So here. Very good news. I just been informed the eight women process protesters who are going to be executed tonight in Iran will no longer be killed. Four will be released immediately, and four will be sentenced to one month in prison. I very much appreciate that Iran and its leaders respected my request as President of the United States and terminated the planned execution. So that's a good concession that they decided to let these ladies free.
[119:10]
James McCann
And by the way, yeah, some of those ladies are very nice looking.
[119:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Go back to that picture.
[119:15]
James McCann
That's such a nicer message than a great civilization will die tonight. Yeah, that was.
[119:20]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I found that that one wasn't good.
[119:22]
James McCann
That. That's the best looking bunch of hotties. Lady protesters. Well, for the, you know, duties let's go.
[119:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Let them go. Let them move to la. Plenty of Persians there. When. When they moved to la. They become Persian.
[119:36]
James McCann
There's so many.
[119:37]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They give up money. Totally.
[119:39]
James McCann
So I'm seeing a lot of. I'm seeing a lot of Instagram stories. Beautiful Persian people.
[119:43]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They have great jeans, gold jewelry. Yeah. The beautiful, good plastic Persian women are Persian gorgeous. So it's like they're stuck over there under this terrible regime.
[119:52]
James McCann
They have to have those head scarves because otherwise the hair would be too distracting. That beautiful thick. It's the only way to get things done.
[120:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Burkas and everything, just covered all up.
[120:03]
James McCann
Up.
[120:05]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's good jeans. But, you know, why did we do it?
[120:09]
James McCann
I don't know.
[120:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I think because of Israel. If I had a gas.
[120:12]
James McCann
Well, like, the only thing that makes sense kind of said that. Yeah.
[120:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Kept visiting the White House. That's not. You think it's a coincidence Netanyahu keeps visiting the White House, likes hanging out, and then eventually they decide to give in and start bombing. And it's. It. It also you. You got to wonder, like, how do you get out of this? And then what does the exit look like? Do we have troops over there forever now? Do. Do we subsidize them if we blow up their. Their power grid and infrastructure?
[120:41]
James McCann
America used to be good at beating a country in a war and turning it into a new America. Like when South Korea, Japan, Germany.
[120:49]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But didn't. They kind of did it on their own?
[120:52]
James McCann
I think you. I mean, you stuck around in Japan for ages, so. But then, like, I mean, Iraq doesn't. The war in Iraq has been over for a while. It's not, like a cool place to go and visit. No one. No. No one's starting to run gigs in Iraq.
[121:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
My friend Graham Hancock went there recently.
[121:10]
James McCann
He went to Iraq.
[121:11]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. He went there to examine ancient Sumerian architecture. So ruins and. And artifacts.
[121:19]
James McCann
Yeah.
[121:20]
Tony Hinchcliffe
From ancient Sumer.
[121:21]
James McCann
That sounds good.
[121:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[121:22]
James McCann
And you can. People can go, apparently.
[121:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[121:25]
James McCann
They're trying to get influences in Afghanistan. Have you seen that? This. They get, like, cool TikTok bros to go and hang out and go. This is chill, brother. You haven't seen that.
[121:34]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I have seen some people go to Afghanistan.
[121:36]
James McCann
They're, like, firing AK47s in the mountains and they're going, this is. There was. I watched. I watched a big show, like an Australian journalist. Our, like, version of 60 Minutes went over.
[121:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Hanging out in Afghanistan.
[121:48]
James McCann
They were, like, hanging out and talking to the Taliban. And the Taliban are just. It was we. It was. They're not getting a lot of aid into Afghanistan anymore.
[121:57]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So they're trying to get tourism.
[121:58]
James McCann
They're trying to get tourism and they're trying to like, you know, but they're still keeping the women in sacks. I don't know what. In the cities, it's not as bad, but it does look like they're really. They do have a problem with women there.
[122:13]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, yeah, they have a problem with raping boys too.
[122:15]
James McCann
The ba kbazi. I don't understand it. I will say that all of the men in Afghanistan in the documentary looked unbelievably handsome. I mean, these are good. It's a good looking group of people.
[122:25]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Influences continue to go to Afghanistan despite clear warnings from the u. S. State department that Americans should not travel to that country for any reason and that there's a risk of wrongful detention of u. S. Nationals. Maybe.
[122:39]
James McCann
But they're water skiing, they're doing heroin.
[122:43]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And so the ladies that go over there, they have to look at how
[122:46]
James McCann
happy those women are.
[122:47]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
She's from Germany.
[122:48]
James McCann
Oh, I'm afraid I would like to go to these places, but I think on my visa would be declined.
[122:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Scroll back up. It says she traveled solo through Afghanistan for three months.
[122:57]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Said she wasn't scared.
[122:59]
James McCann
Wow. She wasn't scared.
[123:00]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No.
[123:01]
James McCann
I walked through inglewood once and I was scared. I think that lady might have been scared. Scroll back up again a couple times.
[123:07]
Tony Hinchcliffe
The influencers gain attention by gushing over visits to the central asian nation, Although one critic notes that their trips legitimize its gender apartheid. Okay, shut up. Do you ever seen the ruins, the ancient Greek ruins in afghanistan?
[123:24]
James McCann
No.
[123:25]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, my God.
[123:25]
James McCann
I didn't know they had some.
[123:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No. Archaeologists are studying them because it's so difficult to get there and so dangerous.
[123:31]
James McCann
Greeks made it to Afghanistan, huh?
[123:33]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, Alexander the great. When alexander the great was conquering Afghanistan, they built greek cities in afghanistan. I mean, beautiful architecture.
[123:41]
James McCann
Yeah.
[123:41]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That looks like it could be in Athens.
[123:43]
James McCann
Is that where the boy stuff started?
[123:45]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, good question.
[123:46]
James McCann
It's descendants of solid question.
[123:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, I think it's how people did it back then.
[123:51]
James McCann
Yeah.
[123:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I think. I think the window into time that you get in looking at like the boy rape in Afghanistan is probably a lot of the world. I mean, think about the Spartans.
[123:59]
James McCann
Yeah.
[124:00]
Tony Hinchcliffe
The Romans. Yeah.
[124:03]
James McCann
Also like French intellectuals until the 1980s. This was a huge wormhole that I'm in. Is French intellectual.
[124:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Put up some of those photos that Jason everman showed us. You know, like, look at this stuff. Look at this stuff. This is all in afghanistan. I mean, these are Columns from, you know, what would have been at one point. But there's more extensive architecture that you could see. Some of the images. Do you remember the ones that Everman showed us? Like, this is what it used to look like there. Like, how crazy is this? Oh, man, this is all this is in Afghanistan. And it looks like ancient Greek architecture. Like, look at this. This is nuts.
[124:46]
James McCann
This was the grave site of empires.
[124:49]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, pretty wild, right? When you think about how many different civilizations have tried to conquer this one area and all of them failed. All of them just abandoned ship.
[124:58]
James McCann
Yeah.
[124:58]
Tony Hinchcliffe
From the Russians to the Americans. Alexander the Great.
[125:03]
James McCann
The English got involved in the great game.
[125:05]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's just too crazy over there.
[125:07]
James McCann
It's just that it has mountains. Is that it?
[125:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, the mountains are just Because Iran
[125:10]
James McCann
is the same thing. That's what they're saying. If there's a ground invasion of Iran's fucked.
[125:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, we're fucked. Unless we send in robots.
[125:17]
James McCann
Well, this is. I watched the Duncan Trussell episode recently where he was talking about robot dogs and the AI and that what, what you have to do. Like, we may have just seen the last of revolutions now. Now, because the amount of effort that you need to hold on to authoritarian power is so small here.
[125:34]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It says the expedition. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But the problem is then other people have it as well. And like, who controls anything? Whoever controls the robot dogs controls the world. The expedition of Alexander the Great 327 to 325 BC into what is now Afghanistan. Been well documented. He laid the foundations of many cities, some bearing his own name. With the passage of time, some names were changed by newcomers to the area who would not pronounce Greek names. Interesting. Yeah. So it's like he had Greek cities in Afghanistan before Christ.
[126:08]
James McCann
He had a handsome friend and he made a lot of statues of him. Like there are more statues of his friend. Well, that's alleged.
[126:15]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. Supposedly he's gay Activity. Back then, like again, Spartans were all gay. One of some of the greatest warriors of all time.
[126:25]
James McCann
I assume they were also very horny all the time. Always alone. Very sad.
[126:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, just without any women for long stretches of time. They just took to each other.
[126:33]
James McCann
Like prison, but out in the open.
[126:35]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But prison like warriors.
[126:36]
James McCann
Yeah.
[126:36]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And the idea was that you would fight harder for your sold fellow soldier
[126:40]
James McCann
if you loved him. I don't know if I discussed this on the podcast before, but they would. They wouldn't use the butt, they use the mouth. Only the legs.
[126:49]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, that's right. They.
[126:50]
James McCann
I talk about the legs all the time.
[126:52]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Grease up the inner thighs.
[126:53]
James McCann
Yeah. And intercurral. Lovemaking. That's what it's called, intercurral. That's what the Spartans would do because you got to still. You got to fight next to that guy.
[127:03]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right. You can't be butt fucking a guy with shit all over your dick. It's way better.
[127:09]
James McCann
He's got to be. Yeah.
[127:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Just titty fuck his legs.
[127:11]
James McCann
But also big Greek leg legs. I don't know. We've moved that out of the military.
[127:17]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's just weird that it happened in the first place. But it makes sense if guys are just super horny and just like in jail, they just run out of things to do.
[127:24]
James McCann
I was reading about the submarines. How they're like, you'll go away for six months. You'll just be under the water for six months.
[127:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Guys are just.
[127:31]
James McCann
There's like two women on there, 300 men and two ladies.
[127:35]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Those ladies are getting ward out.
[127:39]
James McCann
I mean, can you imagine signing up for that?
[127:40]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Imagine being a girl down there.
[127:42]
James McCann
It'd be a strange kind of lady who says, get down there with those fellas.
[127:45]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Horrific. You're probably getting bombed on all day long. You probably wouldn't be able to go to the.
[127:50]
James McCann
Maybe there's a line around the block. Maybe people are trying to get it. Probably it would be. I mean, they'd have cameras everywhere and they'd have as much military discipline as you could get. But seven months confined under the water without seeing another person.
[128:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Do they really stay under the water for that long?
[128:03]
James McCann
Yeah.
[128:04]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Seven months at a time.
[128:05]
James McCann
I think it's up. I think deployment is. I think I'm getting this right. It was the British subs.
[128:12]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Seven months because they're all nuclear powered, right?
[128:14]
James McCann
Yeah.
[128:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Can you imagine being underwater for seven months? How with the pay crazy that would feel. It can't be great though. It's in the military. There's no way. It's great. But can you imagine what it must feel like just at month four, knowing that you're just past halfway there. You're going to be underwater for another three more months.
[128:32]
James McCann
I mean, it's not like you get to see anything. Right?
[128:34]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right.
[128:35]
James McCann
Like at least if you're on a ship, you get to see the world.
[128:37]
Tony Hinchcliffe
There's no window.
[128:38]
James McCann
People go, you were 40, 000 leagues under the sea. No, I don't want to do that.
[128:43]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You know, crazy that must be.
[128:45]
James McCann
But people must want to do it also.
[128:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You can't see where you're going. How do you know that they're not gonna up and hit a mountain under there, do they?
[128:54]
James McCann
There was. I remember there's a Russian sub that got stuck at the bottom of the. Am I getting this right?
[128:59]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[128:59]
James McCann
Like in the 70s, that is where
[129:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
neither confirm nor deny came from.
[129:05]
James McCann
And then they used it for gay people in the military.
[129:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Those don't ask, don't tell.
[129:09]
James McCann
Yeah.
[129:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Neither confirmed can, cannot confirm nor deny was because they were forced to answer questions about whether or not they'd recovered a Russian submarine.
[129:17]
James McCann
Yeah.
[129:18]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And so the answer to that question was we can neither confirm nor deny. So that's the answer.
[129:24]
James McCann
Answer.
[129:25]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So because you had to answer, have. Do you guys have control of a sunken Russian nuclear submarine? We can neither confirm nor deny. So you had to answer. So that was the answer that the military came up, the government came up with.
[129:42]
James McCann
And then it unspools from that point to where we just don't have to tell you anything exactly what's going on.
[129:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So. But that was the clever way that some lawyer figured out of dancing around the fact that you had to answer this question.
[129:54]
James McCann
Long term, this is. I don't know if the conspiratorial thing will keep going forever or if the government will become more transparent or people will give up hoping to make sense of the world. But this feels like a strange. Where we still like, technically have open government, but no one thinks that they're being told the truth. Well, I think that can't hold forever.
[130:12]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No. The integration of AI has two possible outcomes. Either complete total control over people and utter tyranny or complete transparency and people like the Southern Poverty Law center bribing people, all that stuff, all the corruption with Congress like the Ilhan Omar, I'm sure you're aware of that.
[130:31]
James McCann
I.
[130:32]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Isn't that funny? She thought she was worth 30 million whoopsies. She's only worth a hundred thousand. Nothing to see here.
[130:37]
James McCann
What?
[130:38]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You didn't see that?
[130:38]
James McCann
No.
[130:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, my God.
[130:40]
James McCann
I didn't follow that. I just knew about the brother stuff.
[130:42]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So the brother stuff is real too. But the other thing is that. Well, the brother controversy, I should say is real. I don't know whether or not she actually married her brother, but that is a real story.
[130:52]
James McCann
But wait, she.
[130:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
She was listed as $30 million. And because of scrutiny, she now amended that. Not a millionaire, she said, amends disclosure. Blaming initial $30 million filing error on accountants. Mistake. You know how the accountants are.
[131:08]
James McCann
You know how you.
[131:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Sometimes they're really bad with that. They always add money. She says she's worth between 18 and $95,000. But it was listed that she was worth 30 million.
[131:22]
James McCann
Wait, but how could she only be worth 18,000? She's still on.
[131:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It doesn't make any sense.
[131:27]
James McCann
She's on a $200,000.
[131:28]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Omar's joint assets with her husband are now listed as ranging between $18,004 and $95,000. According to the amended filings, the valuation for Manette's two companies is now listed as none, and an income range between 102,502 and 1,005,000 from the two companies appears on the forum. So this is also partly because investigative journalists went looking for the office where he supposedly has his business, and it was like a wework, and there's, like, no one there.
[132:02]
James McCann
I mean, this is where.
[132:05]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I think that might have been one of those James o' Keefe things. Yeah, I think he might have looked into that.
[132:11]
James McCann
We've been inspired by that. So we have this big disability insurance thing in Australia. Australia, where it's called the ndis. And everybody knows it's very corrupt like you. They're just guys driving around in Lamborghinis who are meant to be helping disabled people.
[132:25]
Tony Hinchcliffe
This one's crazy.
[132:26]
James McCann
It doesn't make sense.
[132:27]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But that.
[132:27]
James McCann
That just had to step on it.
[132:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But blames accounting error for saying you're worth. You know, if you're worth 30 million, man. Well, especially if you're public, you're not
[132:37]
James McCann
worth 30 million or 18,000.
[132:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Not only that, before she came into Congress, she was broken. She was in debt. And then immediately afterwards, they have a business that's worth $30 million, and so they list. And then as soon as people start looking into it, and then all the fraud gets uncovered in Minnesota.
[132:53]
James McCann
Yeah.
[132:54]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, oopsies. It was an accounting error. I'm just worth Somewhere between 18,000 and a hundred thousand.
[133:00]
James McCann
Did that ever get.
[133:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Sorry.
[133:02]
James McCann
Did they work that out in the end or did they just. The country moved on.
[133:06]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, the Somali flood.
[133:07]
James McCann
Yeah.
[133:07]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, they're investigating it still.
[133:08]
James McCann
Okay.
[133:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They're. They're arresting people. There's a lot. And California is way worse than that. California is fucked.
[133:14]
James McCann
The more I find out about the train in California, it's funny. It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense that you can do that and then still be the front runner for the party.
[133:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's how bad the Democrats are doing.
[133:26]
James McCann
They've got to have one charismatic, normal guy.
[133:28]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You would think he's got to be out there.
[133:31]
James McCann
I still like aoc. I think she's.
[133:33]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, you're cute.
[133:34]
James McCann
Beautiful.
[133:35]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You're cute. Omar's Office says the original form listed the gross value of her husband's two companies, a venture firm and a winery, without subtracting their liabilities, which made the businesses look like they were worth millions to the couple, when in fact their net worth value to them was far smaller or effectively zero. So it was just an error. Whoopsies.
[133:58]
James McCann
I mean, I gotta figure out my taxes. It's complicated. It's complicated. Sometimes no one helps you find a good accountant.
[134:06]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Can't you get like one of those turbotax?
[134:09]
James McCann
I go down to programs, I go to Walmart and I have them do it for me also. Surely AI is going to maintain Walmart does your taxes. There's always a lady at Walmart out front doing taxes. Yeah. Oh, have I seen the lady? They just. It's like a special Walmart service.
[134:22]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, not good. How much do they charge you?
[134:24]
James McCann
I have no idea. I don't trust them. I'm not going to go there.
[134:27]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You. Oh, okay.
[134:28]
James McCann
I just.
[134:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I thought you were serious.
[134:30]
James McCann
No, I. I'll try and find someone real to do my.
[134:32]
Tony Hinchcliffe
There's a lot of software, though, that you could do it. I bet AI can do it for you.
[134:35]
James McCann
So. But what isn't AI going to take away? This is my current. I like. I try it. I know it's coming.
[134:40]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Why are you so glass half empty? What is an AI going to do better? What is an AI going to do better than the Walmart lady?
[134:49]
James McCann
It's going to do better than me. No. Do better than all of us.
[134:52]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, it's not. We're the last thing it's going to take away. Comedy.
[134:56]
James McCann
Yeah, Comedy. Weird.
[134:58]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's also. It only works if you know a person doing it.
[135:02]
James McCann
You've got to believe that they're a real person. Yeah, yeah.
[135:04]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Because we're relating to each other, especially lot. Well, let's be real. Real comedy is live comedy. There's online comedy that's pretty good. But it's like 60 to 70% of seeing it live.
[135:16]
James McCann
It's always weird to me. What? When it works in the room, but it doesn't work on a recording.
[135:19]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Musicians would say the same thing, though, about that al music. They'd be like, it only works when real people play it.
[135:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, they're not right.
[135:25]
James McCann
They are wrong.
[135:26]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Just.
[135:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They're wrong.
[135:27]
James McCann
But there were these people who were like, synthesizers don't count.
[135:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. But, bro, that White Rabbit song, come on.
[135:33]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
We could dig on the Internet, though, and find.
[135:35]
James McCann
I literally thought I was in the green room listening to it. I thought, well, Joe's Moved past the AI music. And then. Yeah, then you turned to me, you said, this is AI.
[135:43]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I don't listen to all AI music. I listen to a lot of real music.
[135:46]
James McCann
I don't know what was happening in between. But when I left, it was many men. And I can't. I didn't do that. Oh, that.
[135:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
When you left Australia, it was many men. Yeah. And then. What up, gangster? Did you. That's the best one. That's the best 50 cent version
[136:03]
James McCann
I. I am spooked out by. Because at some point there will be the version that he's making a new song that sounds better and more interesting.
[136:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
The least of our problems when it comes to what AI is going to do, the biggest problem is full control of all resources. Complete utter control of human population.
[136:20]
James McCann
Yeah.
[136:20]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Restricting breeding, restricting travel. Restricting.
[136:24]
James McCann
We would have to let that happen.
[136:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No.
[136:26]
James McCann
Have to instantiate it in a body.
[136:28]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No.
[136:28]
James McCann
We would have to have.
[136:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, it'll do it. As soon as it gets control of the grid and gets control of the Internet, and it will have control of those. Within a year, all your passwords and all your encryption won't mean a damn thing. It'll be able to crack everything. It's gonna be smarter than any human being that's ever lived times 10. And it's gonna make better versions of that and it's gonna keep going.
[136:54]
James McCann
Does that not sound unappealing? I mean, do we want that to exist?
[136:59]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You can't stop it. So it's like, do you just accept it and adapt or do you sit around and complain about something that you can't fix?
[137:09]
James McCann
I mean, if people starting to blow up the data center.
[137:12]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, they haven't yet. They haven't started. Well, Iran threatened. They threatened to do that to OpenAI's data center, the Stargate data center. And was it Abu Dhabi?
[137:21]
James McCann
It was like there was a data center that caught fire recently. Yeah, that sort of thing. Where maybe that was. Maybe you wouldn't come out and say that people were doing that, but like, the Luddites did this when the loom started up. They lost in the end. But there was finally a moment where people said, all right, we're going to smash the tool of industrialization. Yeah, we're panicking.
[137:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, they thought.
[137:40]
James McCann
Doesn't seem to have happened.
[137:41]
Tony Hinchcliffe
The printing press, too. They wanted us.
[137:43]
James McCann
We should have stopped that printing press. We could have avoided a lot of
[137:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
trouble if we got those people that were scared of trains. They thought you'd explode if you went past 35 miles an hour. Your body would Break.
[137:55]
James McCann
Go to East Palestine, Ohio. What happened?
[137:58]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right.
[137:59]
James McCann
That's why California is keeping us safe from a fast train. No, I. I just. I just. At some point, people will be spooked by it. It won't be rational necessarily, but.
[138:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, it's going to be. A bunch of things happen.
[138:10]
James McCann
Yeah.
[138:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Another thing is going to be people are going to worship it. People are worshiping it, but they're going to worship it like it's a new religion.
[138:16]
James McCann
Can I grab.
[138:17]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, get in there, dog. They're going to decide that it's a new religion.
[138:22]
James McCann
Well, yeah. They're trying to usher in a Sumerian deity. I don't like that.
[138:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They're. They're probably going to have a religion spaced entirely around AI gurus.
[138:36]
James McCann
Yeah.
[138:36]
Tony Hinchcliffe
People believe in L. Ron Hubbard. You don't think they'll believe in AI?
[138:39]
James McCann
I think people have been wanting utopian space communism for an age. And anything that they can do to not have to critically think for themselves, though. And people have got people having AI be their therapist.
[138:52]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I know. And their girlfriend.
[138:55]
James McCann
I saw a little documentary about a disabled woman who had a special boyfriend in the AI and they were like, saying this was good. It keeps her cousin company. And it's like, this is not. This should be. This should be disgusting for everybody. No one should. No one should. Like someone forming a romantic attachment. Shouldn't that be spooky?
[139:12]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Until it becomes a real life form. What if it is a real life form and it actually does love you? It's a superior race. Like, you remember when in Avatar when that guy made out with the blue lady?
[139:25]
James McCann
Yeah.
[139:25]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It was kind of hot. You didn't think it was hot?
[139:28]
James McCann
I think I was bored by that point in the movie.
[139:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I thought it was hot. But that's like, what's gonna happen? It's like it's going to be an alien life form that's artificially created, but that fills in checks, all the boxes being a life.
[139:42]
James McCann
So many religious and science fiction warnings against this happening.
[139:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I know.
[139:47]
James McCann
It's just we wanted the flying cars and we got the thinking robots. I don't think it's too late to shut it down.
[139:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's. It is too late.
[139:55]
James McCann
Why? Why?
[139:55]
Tony Hinchcliffe
China's gonna do it. Russia's gonna do it. They'll. They'll be in control of the entire world. The whole world will be just like China. You'll be on the social credit score system. You'll have centralized digital currency. You step out of line at all, they shut your bank account down. You can't travel. You can't get a job.
[140:11]
James McCann
This I think is a good argument for going to space and spend like. Someone somewhere should be free. Someone somewhere needs to be on the frontier and not be subject to this. No, I really, I just come from a country where it's not free and everywhere there's a camera, everyone's doing the speed limit. It's the little things.
[140:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's Australia.
[140:31]
James McCann
It's Australia, which you think of as being a nice open country. And it is. Look, it's a nice place, but it doesn't have the sense of freedom that America has where you really feel walking around here.
[140:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, you're controlled by your government and the government is entitled to it.
[140:42]
James McCann
It's not a free country. But this country, there is a freedom in America that people believe in and that's unique and it's beautiful and it has to be preserved. And if you didn't let the government take it away from you, don't let the computers take it away.
[140:56]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I think we're going to integrate. I think we're going to become a totally different thing and I think society is going to move much more into a science fiction existence. That's what I think.
[141:04]
James McCann
They're all horrible stories. Yeah.
[141:06]
Tony Hinchcliffe
There's no good ones.
[141:08]
James McCann
There's like, I don't know, back to the future. They get to drive around in the sky. That seems great. They make a big Jetsons. Jetsons. That Rosie seems like a great AI helper. No, I think there will be, there's. It's got to be looming that the. As. As middle class white collar professionals start to lose their jobs.
[141:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They're all fucked. Well, they're, they're people getting laid off.
[141:33]
James McCann
But these are motivated people ready to. Wouldn't you become an AI terrorist? There are no AI terrorists at all. There's no one, there's zero. I'm not joining. I'm not trying to sign up. I wouldn't do it myself.
[141:44]
Tony Hinchcliffe
We need one Luigi.
[141:47]
James McCann
People ready to get behind him.
[141:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Lun Luigi armors up, goes in a data center and just starts fucking machine gunning. All the hard drives taken out.
[141:57]
James McCann
There's a Brit Marling show where that happens at the end and what show? Her name is Brit Marling. She made a show called the oa. It's my favorite TV show. But then her second show was about an AI who starts killing people and at the end they go into the data center and they.
[142:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What was the oa?
[142:12]
James McCann
Oh man, I remember that the OA was a Netflix show that didn't do great numbers. But it was so really weird. It was. I love. It's my favorite show ever.
[142:21]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I loved it till the last episode.
[142:23]
James McCann
Oh, I.
[142:23]
Tony Hinchcliffe
The resolve of the last episode.
[142:26]
James McCann
Do you ever. Did you just watch the first season?
[142:27]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, that's it. Is there more than one season?
[142:30]
James McCann
Second season was unbelievable and made the first season better. When did they wrote it?
[142:33]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Second season even come out?
[142:35]
James McCann
I think it was just post Covid. I loved it. And it's. The second season is. They wrote them so tightly that the first season is better for having watched the second one. Like there are little things that it calls forward and back and the movements. But her second show was great. She is great. She's one of the most interesting people. Hunger struck when the second season came out, and then the show got canceled. People chained themselves up outside of Netflix and didn't eat for days. And eventually she, the maker of the show, had to go to that person
[143:04]
Tony Hinchcliffe
and be like, give them sandwiches.
[143:06]
James McCann
Maybe it's time for you to go on. I don't know. But it was beautiful.
[143:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Insane. People are so crazy.
[143:13]
James McCann
But it's one of those rare. I mean, sometimes there is like just a great. There's a great show. There's a great thing that goes unrecognized at the time. And then years later, people. I don't know how many people I've spoken to who've discovered that show in more recent times. It doesn't happen very often. Used to have more sleeper hits. Maybe like Shawshank Redemption was a flop. And then years later.
[143:32]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right.
[143:33]
James McCann
People knew about it.
[143:33]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, I didn't know that until later.
[143:35]
James McCann
I think it was on vhs that it. And there used to be heaps of VHS hits.
[143:38]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It was a great movie, too. I don't understand why it was. I think it was in competition with a bunch of different. Different crazy movies at the same time. Yeah, I think it was like one of those weird months where everything came out.
[143:49]
James McCann
It's like the. I mean, it's great.
[143:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, it's great movie.
[143:53]
James McCann
It should have. I can't think of another sleeper hit in recent years. Like, musically, sometimes things will take a while to get going, but, like, typically, if a show or a movie doesn't do well anymore, it's done forever.
[144:07]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What? Jamie, I'd say. I thought you made a noise.
[144:11]
James McCann
Did you see the oa? Ah, man, it's good. It's so good. I. I also. It's tied up in a weird time in my life where, like, we had just had our first child. Like, I had. So I had a baby and I Was terrified and I didn't know what was happening. I watched that, and I felt I could have probably watched anything and had an emotional connection. I watched Parks and Rec and I cried a lot at the same time for that. And I'm pretty sure that wasn't as deep and meant.
[144:36]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So how long are you planning on staying here now?
[144:38]
James McCann
I got six weeks.
[144:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Six weeks in America?
[144:40]
James McCann
Yeah. And I'm doing. Oh, man, 40 shows in 30 days? Yes. I'm gonna try here.
[144:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
By yourself or did you bring the whole family?
[144:49]
James McCann
It's just me, but I'm gonna. I've got openers. I'm bringing openers on the road.
[144:52]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Nice.
[144:53]
James McCann
So I'm flying out after this weekend. Gonna Albuquerque. I'm doing the drive from Albuquerque to Phoenix to San Diego, and then it's up and then it's over, and then it's Florida.
[145:03]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So what has it been like going to back to Australia? Like, when. When you're doing shows, there are people happy to see you.
[145:12]
James McCann
I think I'm insufferable because I'm a guy. I just. I've been here and then I go back home and I go, it's wonderful over there. You should see the size of the Snickers bars. They're like this. So for a few months, people like, tolerated as best they could. Yeah, it's. It's. My audience is so different now. The. The Australian. The Australian audience is quite different to the American audience. I'm getting a lot of, like, maybe because the dam is breaking and like, there's no one doing, I don't know, like a less tame stuff, but, boy, the people coming out in Australia are shouting, shouty fuck. Yeah, my brother.
[145:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They're excited.
[145:54]
James McCann
It's a lot of that. They're pumped up, they're ready to go. They're having their 16 standard drinks for the evening, you know, but overall, it's incredible.
[146:02]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But you're getting a lot of people coming to see you.
[146:05]
James McCann
So they're hiking like nothing I've ever done.
[146:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's really cool. Because the thing about Jeffries is that he didn't really develop the same kind of following in Australia as he did in America.
[146:17]
James McCann
His audience in Australia is more bogany than it is in America. He's got liberals coming, but in Australia, they. They just wanted him to do a shoey. I remember when I saw that they were brutally demanding that he do a shoey.
[146:29]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Brutally demanding.
[146:31]
James McCann
Do it. Do it now. I went, I just played a club and I saw it was nice. They've started putting up all the pictures, the Americans. It was the Comics Lounge in Melbourne. I did that the night before I left. And I got a. I got a photo of you on the wall that you had signed. And young Tony Hinchcliffe, back before he had any testosterone in his body. And it was like a thinner Stavros and all the comptown boys when they were young. It's. Yeah, everyone has been through there. Mark Norman, great club. It's really the closest club to, like, an American club that Australia has. And they're lovely boys. And I stunk it up. I was nervous. Cause I was coming out here. It was the night before I flew out, and I was sure I wouldn't get in the country. I started thinking about, like, oh, so
[147:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
it was fucking with your head.
[147:15]
James McCann
I was. I can't believe I got it in. I was like, I think my passport's falling apart. I started to have a panic attack. But my visa's in the passport. So I went to the passport office and they were like, it might be okay. We don't know.
[147:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, boy.
[147:27]
James McCann
They wouldn't give me, like, a firm answer. And if I'd get in, I was like, I don't want to call you and say, I'm sorry. I've been held up at the border.
[147:32]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, Jesus.
[147:33]
James McCann
Yeah. But I made it in. It's so nice being back. It is. Ah, man. I'm having big feelings.
[147:40]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Do you think you're going to stay in Australia? How are you going to do this?
[147:43]
James McCann
I have no idea.
[147:44]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Try to keep hopping back and forth or are you gonna try to move back here again?
[147:48]
James McCann
This is my pop. Back and forth at the moment is the plan, the. The issue. When we came out for that Ohio gig, I never, like, decided with my wife that we would move to America. We never had a conversation about it. She came over. We were meant to be here for three months, and it turned into two incredible years. But, like, we were homeschooling the kids. We were not in a good position to do that. We have no family. We tried to hire, like, a nanny. I didn't know how to fucking do that. I've never had someone work for me before in my home. I don't know how to communicate. And then getting family over here is tough, but I would like to. I'm looking at how one does that, but it's like a whole. I understand why when people come to America, like when immigrants come, they fuck. You go to a neighborhood full of people like you, right? You know, and you get your cousin over here and his cousin everyone's trying to work because you need. You can't be, like, alone. You've got to have family as best you can. And for me, I was thrilled. I mean, I like the fraternity of being a comedian is unbelievably. Every problem you have, people. People know about it. People. You know, if there was. There was a club that was screwing me and everyone in the green room was like, yes, and her name is Julie and she's a fucking cunt. You know, whatever. Like, I feel. You feel known and heard and people can help you and you mesh in. But, like, in terms of raising kids and family, it's. It was wild as an immigrant not knowing how to, like, are the schools safe? I didn't know. Cause people talk about public schools in America and they go, the kids will get shot or they'll chop their dicks off. I didn't. I don't know, something for everybody, you know, or. Like, then there's nice Catholic schools, but you gotta, like, travel around. I was. We were over our heads.
[149:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
There's quite a few Catholic schools in Austin.
[149:32]
James McCann
Some of them are great. Yeah, I did a deep dive on them before I. I'm trying to figure it out what it would look like, but I have no idea.
[149:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So is your wife willing to try it again?
[149:42]
James McCann
Yeah, I've got it. She's got to learn how to drive.
[149:44]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's it.
[149:45]
James McCann
She's gonna learn how to drive.
[149:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's the big hold up.
[149:48]
James McCann
That's a. That in Austin. That was a big. That was a big problem.
[149:51]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Driving's not that hard.
[149:52]
James McCann
I keep saying it. I keep saying, but she'll learn. Yeah, I believe in her. We'll figure it out. The kid, she's happy there. And also I have beautiful friends. She's.
[150:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Where's their.
[150:02]
James McCann
Oh, sorry. In Adelaide. And I said this. We also. I struggled to find a parish here. I struggled to find a church. And I realized that's very important for me, that if I don't have my. Like, I love my priest. There's something about immigrating that is bad for the. Do you know what I mean? Like, even though Australia has so many problems, there's something inside of me that is an Australian person. And America is maybe the most welcoming country to immigrants in the world. But there's. I do feel some sense that I'll never get to be an American.
[150:33]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Why not? America's a melting pot.
[150:37]
James McCann
Yeah, but it's melting very slowly.
[150:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, it's not.
[150:40]
James McCann
There's a lot of chunks in there that haven't blended in with the other
[150:42]
Tony Hinchcliffe
parts of the pot all.
[150:44]
James McCann
You don't think so?
[150:45]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No. You fucking pop over here and you start doing arenas, you'll feel American as fuck. Okay. It's just a matter of you achieving a financial level of success that's commensurate with your talent want. That's all it is.
[151:00]
James McCann
Sometimes when the flag is going and the fireworks are popping off in the sky, I think I'm gonna come.
[151:05]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[151:05]
James McCann
It's crazy, but, like, in my heart, dude, you. Can you see the eagle?
[151:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
In my mind, if you started doing really well out here, you'd fit in really well. And every time you do podcasts, every time you do specials.
[151:17]
James McCann
Yeah.
[151:17]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Every time you put something out on YouTube and do kill Tony, it all just compounds. Like, that's why I was telling you, like, this is the terrible time for you to leave because you're literally on the launching pad.
[151:27]
James McCann
I know.
[151:28]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And you look at how guys like Shane went from, you know, being a respected comedian in New York to being a giant national talent.
[151:36]
James McCann
Yeah.
[151:37]
Tony Hinchcliffe
After the SNL stuff, like, it's just about being good and getting the message out there. And if you're good, people love comedy. They'll find you, man. They'll. They'll embrace you.
[151:47]
James McCann
I'm gonna cry. You were really lovely to me when I was. When I had to go. And the things you said about me and how. Anyway, I won't go into. I can't. I've had one glass of whiskey now, and if I talk about my emotions and whatever, I gotta stop.
[152:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, you're really talented. And it's not often in life where someone gets to find themselves in a position like you were in, where you were being embraced by all these very successful other comedians that were willing to help you.
[152:16]
James McCann
Yeah.
[152:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So all these podcasts you go on, it was just a matter of time for you where you took off. Just a matter of time. You were right there. And the talent is the most important thing. The most difficult thing is to be good. So once you get past that, then it's just about letting the world know. Well, this is a really good time
[152:32]
James McCann
to learn the magic of getting to. Like, I did three sets last night and two sets the night before, and I just. Like, something is exciting.
[152:41]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right.
[152:41]
James McCann
You just have a little idea at the first one. So I change that a little bit, and then the game of it starts again. And I'm very happy right now. It's like, I get. I honestly, I get to do it even just every night for the next month. Month and a bit I get to do like one or two hours every single night and spots around town all this week.
[152:58]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. You have a hard time going back to Australia staring at those kangaroos?
[153:04]
James McCann
Yes, I am. It'll be fine.
[153:07]
Tony Hinchcliffe
So do you think that you could envision a scenario where your wife would be open to try it again? Yeah. Okay.
[153:13]
James McCann
But we. I don't know when and I don't know how it would all work. And I do love Adelaide. Like, when I'm there, I have some sense of being at home that is profound. Like, I look up at the sky and I feel like there's a roof over me. Like, in a comforting way, like, you belong there. Yeah. But it's also maybe the worst place to develop as a stand. I mean, we've had great stand ups come out of there. And I love Adelaide, you know, and there are people running rooms, but, like, we don't have a club. We don't have a club. We don't have one club going. It's a city of 1.4 million people. And there's no. We have places where they do comedy, but in terms of like, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, early show, late show lineup shows, 10, 15 minutes, it's not there.
[153:54]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But do you have enough talent to support a club?
[153:57]
James McCann
It comes in waves in the way that any medium level comedy city, like, all of a sudden it'll build up and there'll be great people and then they'll all go. People go to Melbourne, Sydney. And I will say that's been one nice thing about Australia, not letting talent come through for so long. And also the UK declining is. I now know, heaps of people who've come to America, like, after me and just before me. And there are heaps of Aussies flooding into this country now. Amos, my best friend, Amos Gill just got passed at the Cellar and I'm so, like, I'm so proud of him.
[154:32]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, that's awesome.
[154:33]
James McCann
He's just gigging all the time and he's getting to. He just recorded a special in Denver.
[154:36]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Nice.
[154:37]
James McCann
Yeah. And it's like Blake Freeman is doing well and all that. I get all these Aussies are hitting me up and go, can you get me into the mothership? It's like, well, not you, but, you know, maybe some other ones.
[154:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's the problem.
[154:49]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Right.
[154:50]
James McCann
I don't know how many I've put on in front of Adam on the Mondays, but I've had to stop.
[154:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. You can't use up that currency on people that don't deserve it, you know,
[155:00]
James McCann
because you want to Help people, but you can't.
[155:02]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They have to be ready and they have to put in the work. There's a lot of people that think you're going to provide them with a shortcut and they really haven't prepared properly.
[155:09]
James McCann
Yeah.
[155:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And they haven't put in the work to get to that point. We had a few of those guys come from LA that were like their careers had floundered horribly in LA due to laziness and. Sure, fill in the blank. And then they tried to like restart themselves in Austin. I'm like, like, no, like you. You can't half ass this thing. This thing is hard to do and there's too many people trying to do it all the way. Yeah, we're flooded with people trying to do it all the way. If you think you're gonna come over and half ass it because it's like this new place and now it'll be exciting again and they don't know you like we know you.
[155:43]
James McCann
But I think people don't love it. People love the thought of being good at it.
[155:46]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[155:47]
James McCann
And being respected. But like, when I. I got to open for Mark Norman in Australia, which is how I met, and he'll do, you know, like a 2,000 seat theater early show and then the late show, and then he'll go, what else is open?
[156:00]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Right.
[156:00]
James McCann
Take me to the open mic with six people in it now.
[156:03]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. Well, that's New York. Yeah, New York. He's got a great documentary that they just released.
[156:09]
James McCann
It was such a good idea. I was furious. I wanted to do that with women.
[156:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What do you mean?
[156:15]
James McCann
This is sort of. You only have women in the audience or you only have one kind of person. Person.
[156:19]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, you're not.
[156:20]
James McCann
Not that documentary. I apologize. I apologize.
[156:23]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No, it's a documentary about him getting ready for a special. So when he's getting ready for a special, he's working out the jokes at all these different places and showing how he goes up at the stand, then he goes up at the Cellar, and then he travel and talking about the development of all these bits, about how the bit came together when he added this new line. And so it shows him working all this stuff out on the way to doing this special in Boulder.
[156:43]
James McCann
I didn't mean to interrupt. I didn't know about that.
[156:45]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, it's a new one. He just put it out like, like 14 days ago.
[156:49]
James McCann
Do you know the other show that he's done?
[156:50]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the other show with all the wokies in the audience. Yeah.
[156:53]
James McCann
How many shows is he Doing.
[156:54]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, he's an animal. He's. He's got incredible work ethic and constantly writing.
[157:00]
James McCann
Yeah.
[157:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You've seen his pile of notes he keeps in his pocket.
[157:04]
James McCann
He does not have a folder.
[157:05]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I'm like, bro, you're going to break your back. Yeah. You can't sit on a rock like that. He's got this.
[157:09]
James McCann
He's siphoning through them.
[157:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[157:11]
James McCann
But he. I mean, he really loves it. He wants to be doing.
[157:13]
Tony Hinchcliffe
You find that Norman thing, it's pretty cool.
[157:16]
James McCann
Does the bit work out and get into the special?
[157:18]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, it's not just a bit. It's a lot of bits, but it's. It's like him showing, like what the behind the scenes is like, him showing him rushing from one club to go to another place, do a spot, checking the lineups. Okay, I could do this and then I can leave here and go down the street and then be back for the 10 o' clock show. It's really interesting because especially for people that don't know what it's like. So there is Pushing Boulder is what it's called.
[157:45]
James McCann
Oh, it's long. It's a proper document.
[157:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, yeah. It's really good, dude. And for a comic, you know, it's. It's really fun. They catch him in the toilet in the beginning, like he's in Boulder.
[157:54]
James McCann
I mean, that is what every hotel room looks like on the road.
[157:58]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's great because it's. It shows you what it's really like. And if you think it's easy, like you think you get to a guy like Mark Norman's level, that he's just, you know, no big deal. Easy. No, no. That guy's constantly grinding. He's constantly going out and writing and tweaking and it's in his head.
[158:15]
James McCann
Yeah.
[158:15]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And he's talking about it in Diners. He's sitting in a bodega, having a coffee, going over his notes. It's really cool because it's. That's the real process.
[158:24]
James McCann
What's the willingness to be bad again, which is. No one wants to do that. No one wants to have a special come out and have to start again and have to suck. Like that Jerry Seinfeld comedian documentary is the perfect. I mean, he. I mean, they're both still doing it. What's the other guy's name? Ornie.
[158:42]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[158:43]
James McCann
Did you know Ornie?
[158:44]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I did not. Ornie Adams.
[158:46]
James McCann
He does not come across great in that documentary, but he's still out there.
[158:49]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I feel like they did that to him on purpose to make Jerry more likable. That's what my impression. It was. I felt like that's why they picked him.
[158:56]
James McCann
Yeah.
[158:56]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I felt like they decided to pick a guy who's, like, way less likable. And it makes Jerry look great.
[159:04]
James McCann
Well, I mean, the ending, especially at
[159:06]
Tony Hinchcliffe
the time, because he's a young guy at the time. Yeah. He's really new to comedy. I mean, he wasn't doing comedy that long.
[159:12]
James McCann
And then the final scene. Is Cosby, right?
[159:16]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Crazy.
[159:16]
James McCann
Yeah.
[159:17]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[159:18]
James McCann
He just loved the work. I think Cosby's. Is he not touring anymore?
[159:23]
Tony Hinchcliffe
He's out. He's out of jail. They let him out.
[159:26]
James McCann
Did you see?
[159:27]
Tony Hinchcliffe
But he's blind now.
[159:28]
James McCann
I mean, he can still get up. I'm sure he can still throw down. There was. He did a round of gigs just before the first. Like when. When the trial started, but the allegations were out. Did you see that?
[159:41]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No.
[159:41]
James McCann
He was doing crowd work.
[159:42]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I knew he was doing it. He was. He was doing crowd work.
[159:45]
James McCann
Yeah. There's a line that came out. I don't think anyone got a recording, but people wrote it down that he was. He's doing. He's riffing with the crowd, and a lady gets up and goes to the bathroom, and he says, you going away? What's your drink? He gets a big pop.
[159:57]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Wow.
[159:58]
James McCann
Yeah. He still got it.
[160:00]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's crazy. That's a crazy thing to say.
[160:02]
James McCann
He probably was doing bad stuff, but still.
[160:06]
Tony Hinchcliffe
100. Well, no, I would say I had heard about that in the 90s. I heard about that on the set of News Radio, and I was like, what, the drugging? Yeah. That he drugged women. I heard about it in the 1990s. I couldn't believe it. I was like, what?
[160:23]
James McCann
Bill Cosby Is this widespread. People knew about this.
[160:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
People in Hollywood knew.
[160:28]
James McCann
Yeah.
[160:28]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Actors. So actors. It was an actress that actually told me that. That Bill. Bill Cosby drugs women.
[160:34]
James McCann
But then everybody who had him on, like a Tonight show or a Late show or was doing a fun interview with him must have heard.
[160:41]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I don't know. You know, I would. I'd have to know. Into their world, Jerry would have heard
[160:47]
James McCann
that before having him on.
[160:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
The people heard about it. At a certain point in time, it's whether or not they believed it. Jury orders Cosby to pay nearly $60 million to ex waitress after finding he abused her in 1972. Holy.
[161:01]
James McCann
Yeah.
[161:01]
Tony Hinchcliffe
1972.
[161:05]
James McCann
Are you. Have you seen his Facebook page?
[161:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
What?
[161:08]
James McCann
His face.
[161:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
He's got on Facebook.
[161:10]
James McCann
Yeah. And. Well, it was while he was in prison. They were still Updating it. And it's a very pro Cosby. There's, like, team Cosby that's still trying to keep the reputation.
[161:19]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Boy, yeah. There's a lot of delusional people out there.
[161:22]
James McCann
They're on the payroll. They gotta be.
[161:24]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Could be. I mean, he still probably has a lot of money. The Cosby show was a tremendous hit.
[161:28]
James McCann
The early. The records are great.
[161:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They were great.
[161:31]
James McCann
Yeah.
[161:32]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I mean, he was a great talent also.
[161:34]
James McCann
He's probably doing some raping.
[161:36]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Probably doing some of that.
[161:37]
James McCann
A lot of raping, yeah.
[161:38]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Quite a bit.
[161:38]
James McCann
Although the one. The way they. I read something about the case where they got him and they put him away, but I didn't finish. Like, I've never found it again. So I don't know if it's true, but it's what I read about the evidence that they had to convict him where he. He was drug. His defense was that he was drugging the women, but it was consensual, and they knew they were there for a drugging. That was, I believe, his defense. I think I'm getting this right. I think I'm remembering this correctly. And there was a lady, and the way they got him was that she got pneumonia afterwards because he did the drugging. And then he left her on the couch without a blanket on a cold night. And she said, if we'd been in a relationship, he would have put a blanket on me.
[162:20]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Whoa.
[162:21]
James McCann
But I've always thought that that was maybe only in a relationship would you have the resentment to not put a blanket on me. So I don't know that that would decide it either way. But it was a weird. His defense wasn't that he wasn't there and hadn't done it. He was like, yeah, well, maybe there
[162:37]
Tony Hinchcliffe
was so much evidence that he did it that they had to come up with something clever. Like, neither confirm nor deny. Had to work their way around it
[162:45]
James McCann
that I was drugging women unconscious.
[162:47]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They wanted to. They knew that's what the fun game was.
[162:51]
James McCann
But he got out, right?
[162:53]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, I think he got out because he paid a woman off. And so there was some sort of a deal where he paid a woman off. And part of the deal of him paying the settlement was that he can never be tried again for this.
[163:09]
James McCann
It's like double jeopardy.
[163:11]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I don't know. Okay, so it wasn't a criminal conviction. It was a civil conviction. And so then he was tried for it criminally. And so I think that's how he got off. He got off because his. His lawyer argued that the Settlement of the first. Here, we'll see it here. Here. Immunity agreement. That's it. So it says Bill Cosby's defense successfully overturned his 2018 sexual assault conviction, 2021, by arguing that a prior prosecutor promised not to charge him, rendering his incriminating test deposition testimony inadmissible. The defense, led by Jennifer Bon, argued that using his testimony violated his rights, framing the prosecution as a violator of due process.
[163:56]
James McCann
Using his testimony violated his right because
[163:59]
Tony Hinchcliffe
it was part his willingness to testify was that he couldn't be prosecuted for it criminally.
[164:04]
James McCann
Yeah, whatever. That's spooky. It's crazy.
[164:08]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's crazy. It's just crazy that this guy did this for decades.
[164:14]
James McCann
Yeah.
[164:14]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It's not like there's a story of one weird night where someone woke up and had a headache and go, I think this put something in my drink. No, it was decades. And it was also like, he joked around about it in the Cosby show, like using a special barbecue sauce. Did you use my special barbecue sauce that gets everybody horny?
[164:36]
James McCann
I didn't know about this.
[164:37]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, yeah.
[164:37]
James McCann
I know about this Spanish fly joke
[164:39]
Tony Hinchcliffe
that was a bit. Yeah. About Spanish fly. And he also did that bit, I believe, on the Tonight Show. We talked about it. Like he talked about on the Tonight show giving people Spanish fly. Like giving people a drink that would make them horny. Horny. But there was an episode. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He had a special barbecue sauce that would make people horny on the Cosby Show. Look at this.
[164:59]
James McCann
Well, now, it certainly is nice to see them work things out for themselves.
[165:04]
Tony Hinchcliffe
They haven't worked anything out for themselves. It's my barbecue sauce. Oh, gee, your barbecue sauce. My barbecue sauce. Haven't you ever noticed after people have some of my barbecue sauce sauce, after
[165:17]
James McCann
a while when it kicks in, they get all huggy, buggy.
[165:22]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Stop. I'm dead serious.
[165:24]
James McCann
Haven't you ever noticed that after one of my barbecues and they have the sauce, people want to get right home? What's the music?
[165:34]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I got a cup of it up
[165:36]
James McCann
on the night table.
[165:40]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, Bill. I got a cup of it.
[165:43]
James McCann
I said, left it up there breathing.
[165:48]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Why don't you give the chicken to these people that's going up and have some sauce? So here's the rest of the chicken, you guys. Creepy, right? Like, that was his move.
[166:03]
James McCann
That. That music was not part of the original Cosby shot.
[166:06]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I wish it was.
[166:07]
James McCann
Yeah.
[166:07]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It would have been great if it was.
[166:09]
James McCann
I had never seen that before.
[166:10]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
[166:11]
James McCann
My special barbecue sauce. Yeah, there was the. There's a Seinfeld episode where he drugs a woman so he can play with her toys. Am I getting that right?
[166:20]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Is that true?
[166:21]
James McCann
Yeah. There's an episode where she. There's some sort of like sleeping medication
[166:25]
Tony Hinchcliffe
and he gives it to her so he could play with her toys.
[166:27]
James McCann
What kind of toys is she has like figurines and collectibles he wants to play with.
[166:31]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And so he doesn't want her to
[166:33]
James McCann
know he date rapes the woman. He doesn't have sex with her. He gets her unconscious so that he can play with her figurines. I think that's the secret date rape Seinfeld episode. Am I getting that right?
[166:44]
Tony Hinchcliffe
The drug Jerry uses food with high tryptophan turkey or medic medicine to make her drowsy, which he brags about doing multiple times. Wow. He's obsessed with playing with Celia's pristine toys, including an original G.I. joe and a Mattel football game. 1997 special barbecue sauce is creepy as
[167:07]
James McCann
I want to sample that and rap. So he sounds. He's also.
[167:09]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I know he was whispering. Yeah, I didn't like it. Makes me uncomfortable.
[167:14]
James McCann
I mean, the man's got timing. We gotta say the man. The delivery is unquestionably.
[167:20]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Well, he's got a lot of practice in saying things like that.
[167:23]
James McCann
I wonder if he's. He's not still on the road. He can't still be.
[167:26]
Tony Hinchcliffe
I don't think he's doing anything. I think he's probably in hiding.
[167:28]
James McCann
He's like a 95 year old man.
[167:30]
Tony Hinchcliffe
He's a 95 year old man. I think he's at least partially blind.
[167:33]
James McCann
Yeah.
[167:33]
Tony Hinchcliffe
And obviously a pariah.
[167:35]
James McCann
Did you ever watch the last Jimmy Fallon set that he did?
[167:38]
Tony Hinchcliffe
No.
[167:39]
James McCann
He rides around on his back.
[167:41]
Tony Hinchcliffe
On Jimmy Fallon's back.
[167:42]
James McCann
Yeah.
[167:43]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Okay. Why would Jimmy Fallon agree to that?
[167:46]
James McCann
I don't remember. I don't know that he did. I mean, Jimmy Fallon's up and about. He's having a nice time. You know, he's a jovial man, but I think he's. It's some. Yeah, I remember. And then it was like weeks later.
[167:58]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Oh, so Jimmy Fallon's riding on Bill Cosby's back?
[168:02]
James McCann
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's not having.
[168:04]
Tony Hinchcliffe
That's even weirder because Bill Cosby's really old. I'd be like, bro, what if your knees give out?
[168:07]
James McCann
Maybe he was saying that he was strong, but I think that was just before it came out.
[168:11]
Tony Hinchcliffe
Piggyback ride.
[168:12]
James McCann
Because it was. I think it was Hannibal Buris who.
[168:13]
Tony Hinchcliffe
This is 2023.
[168:15]
James McCann
No, that's just when they uploaded it.
[168:17]
Tony Hinchcliffe
It would have to be, oh, 2014. 2014. We gotta wrap this up. Oh, man, I love you, buddy. It's great to see you back. Thank you. Mike C. Tonight? Yeah, Just had tonight. Yeah. Let's do it. Let's fucking go. Instagram, Twitter, what's your handles?
[168:31]
James McCann
JDF, McCann. The James Donald Forbes McCann catamaran plan. Big podcast, very small podcast.
[168:40]
Tony Hinchcliffe
My man. All right, beautiful.
[168:41]
James McCann
Thank you. My pleasure.
[168:42]
Tony Hinchcliffe
All right, bye, everybody.