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Transcript1,185 lines
- [00:02]
Marcus King
Joe Rogan Podcast.
- [00:03]
Jamie
Check it out.
- [00:04]
Joe Rogan
The Joe Rogan Experience. Train my day.
- [00:07]
Marcus King
Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. What's up, Marcus?
- [00:14]
Joe Rogan
Good to see you, brother.
- [00:15]
Marcus King
Crazy. It's crazy to be here.
- [00:17]
Joe Rogan
It's crazy to have you here, man. And thank you so much for the guitar. That's the dopest shit that anybody's ever given me.
- [00:22]
Marcus King
Oh, man. I hope you like it.
- [00:23]
Joe Rogan
I'm sure I like it. I just can't play, and I. I would love to learn how to play, but I know my brain, and I. I can't give my brain another thing to do.
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Marcus King
You've got a lot.
- [00:33]
Joe Rogan
Well, the problem is I get obsessed with things.
- [00:35]
Marcus King
Me, too.
- [00:36]
Joe Rogan
I'm sure you can't get as good as you got without getting obsessed.
- [00:40]
Marcus King
Are you like this? Like, I don't like doing things I'm not good at.
- [00:43]
Joe Rogan
I love doing things I'm not good at to get good at them.
- [00:46]
Marcus King
Right. But it's.
- [00:48]
Joe Rogan
It's.
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Marcus King
It's just. It's not leisurely to me to play golf. Like, I can't enjoy it because I'm. I'm bad at it.
- [00:54]
Joe Rogan
Well, you'll enjoy it if you get good at it, but the problem is to get good at it, then you got to get obsessed.
- [00:59]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [01:00]
Joe Rogan
And then you got to take less. Like, Jamie's got a virtual reality thing in the back where he whacks balls every day.
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Marcus King
He's a. Oh, yeah.
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Joe Rogan
He's obsessive.
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Jamie
Recovering from hitting today. Sweating.
- [01:09]
Marcus King
Wow. My drummer is a really good golfer.
- [01:12]
Joe Rogan
Golf is one of those things that if you get into that man, that's your whole day.
- [01:17]
Marcus King
Yeah, he goes out three or four days a week on the road.
- [01:22]
Joe Rogan
When I was living in Boston, I noticed that the comedians that really got into golf, their career kind of stalled because all they were. They were just playing golf all day, having fun, drinking, and then they'd go to the club at night, but they weren't writing any new jokes. They weren't obsessing on their career. They kind of stalled out a little.
- [01:41]
Marcus King
When I still drank, I really liked golfing, and I quit drinking. I was like, I don't really like this.
- [01:48]
Joe Rogan
When did you quit drinking?
- [01:51]
Marcus King
Well, I quit a few times, but most recent time was like, a year and a half ago.
- [01:55]
Joe Rogan
Were you quitting because you were just off the rails or, like, gotta get your health in order?
- [02:02]
Marcus King
It was kind of a combo deal, you know, like, when I met my wife, at that point, I thought that I could drink like a gentleman, and it just never really worked. Out that way. There was just something in me that just wanted to completely burn my life to the ground. And every time I drink, you know, a real destructive quality.
- [02:24]
Joe Rogan
Ooh, that's not good.
- [02:26]
Marcus King
Yeah, yeah.
- [02:27]
Joe Rogan
Fortunately, I never had that. But that is a thing. I've seen that. What is that?
- [02:35]
Marcus King
I think it's. I think a lot of it is repressed emotions. And that's where they find you when you. When your brain is de.
- [02:45]
Joe Rogan
Off bottle. Yeah, yeah. They go, hey, Marcus.
- [02:50]
Marcus King
Yeah, man, let's get those problems out. It seduces me. It's like you don't need anybody, everybody. That woman that married you, she. You don't want her.
- [03:00]
Joe Rogan
Like, I think sometimes people do that to almost like save themselves from heartbreak. Sometimes you kind of like wreck it yourself.
- [03:08]
Marcus King
It's like making fun of yourself before anyone else can.
- [03:11]
Joe Rogan
Right?
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Marcus King
It's like that.
- [03:12]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, right. Like, just assume it's gonna go bad eventually. Let's get this train on the tracks right now. Crack, pour, crank.
- [03:26]
Marcus King
That was. That was kind of my. You know, that was my approach for a while. I just. I don't know, man. I was just. I didn't want to feel anything. So that was all. That was where it would always end up. Because I remember even asking my wife, like a couple years ago, we opened up for the Avett Brothers in Raleigh, North Carolina. And at that point, I'd been sober for like six months. And I was like, I really think I can handle it. And then cut to. It's like, famous last words. I chugged a jumbo white claw. I started with a jumbo white claw. And I just got completely hammered, blacked out. Pissed my wife off so bad. Like, I woke up and I was at our friend's house, still, like on the floor. And she left in my bus. And like, my wallet, everything was on the bus. I had no identification. She was like, you can fucking figure it out, man.
- [04:19]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [04:19]
Marcus King
And the bus turned around, come got me. But yeah, she doesn't play any games.
- [04:25]
Joe Rogan
So did you stop then?
- [04:29]
Marcus King
Yeah, I did also.
- [04:30]
Joe Rogan
One night.
- [04:31]
Marcus King
Yeah, I had one night off the leash. And I realized I couldn't handle it, you know, there's just some kind of quality in me that's like, I can't stop, you know? And maybe someday I'll find that. It's like, I gotta get right in here, you know, and in here with myself before I can really consider that again.
- [04:55]
Joe Rogan
I quit drinking for about eight months just. Cause I realized I just wasn't feeling good. I was doing it cause of the club. I Was at the club every night. And, you know, it's like one night, someone would say, hey, let's do shots. I'll do a shot. I want to be, you know, cordial, hang out with everybody, sense of community. Let's all do it together. Come on, boys. And then, you know, two drinks, three drinks, go home, get up, feel like, work out, do it again the next day, feel even shittier the next day. And it's like, God damn, I gotta take some time off. So I took about eight months off.
- [05:33]
Jamie
Think.
- [05:33]
Joe Rogan
I think. I'm not exactly sure how much time I took off. And then I had, like, a drink with dinner one night, and I said, all right. And so since then, I've never gotten drunk. I've only had a drink or two.
- [05:47]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [05:47]
Joe Rogan
You know, so I've managed it, but I was not an alcoholic. I was just realizing that all this fun was. It was messing up the rest of my time. I was like, what is it? There's an expression that when you're drinking, like, the. You're. You're taking a loan out on the good times that you could have had. For some good times you can have right now.
- [06:10]
Marcus King
Wow.
- [06:10]
Joe Rogan
And then you got to pay it back.
- [06:13]
Marcus King
Yeah. With. With interest.
- [06:15]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Well, physically, the problem is physically, for me, just wasn't worth it. I just. I would be working out at the gym, going, why? Why am I doing this? I keep feeling like. And every time I'm working out, I'm pushing through all this, you know, toxic shit that I poured down my throat the night before, and my body's recovering from it, so I feel tired and drained. And then my brain wasn't working as well. You know, that was.
- [06:42]
Marcus King
That's what it was for me was like, the anxiety and just like the. The dopamine depletion and just feeling. Just completely just like. And I'm somebody who's already struggling with. Like, that's why I drink in the first place. It's my mental issues and just anxiety and depression and. And then it would just kind of hit me tenfold the next day.
- [07:07]
Joe Rogan
It's always interesting to me. Some with anxiety chooses a path in life, like live performing.
- [07:14]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [07:15]
Joe Rogan
Because, like, there's anything that gives people anxiety, it's live performing, and you're really good at it, which is crazy. It's like, you know, you're. You're picking this thing that you're really good at, but that gives a lot of people anxiety. And you have anxiety to begin with.
- [07:32]
Marcus King
Yeah. I mean, it's like there's. There's something to that. It's like Dan Soder, I always quote him on this. He's like, you know, I go around each night, like, craving the approval of like, thousands of people a night. Like, you didn't think I was doing that because things went well growing up, right? Like, I'm up. I need. I need all these people to tell me I'm doing a good job. But
- [07:59]
Joe Rogan
I think the idea is that eventually you channel that. And when you get yourself together, the idea. Some people have this idea that if you ever get yourself together somewhat, you know, I don't think anybody ever gets totally together, but you get yourself together somewhat and then you don't. You don't do it for the approval of it. You do it for the love of the art of it. The thing and bringing the thing to people and getting enjoyment out of having these people have a good time. Y And I think you. I think that can be done. I think you can shift your focus from, I just want these people's love to. I want to give them love. I want everyone to have a good time. You know, I want to be up there just having a good time. They're having a good time. We all have a good time together. I make their lives feel better for a brief moment. I feel better. Everybody's. This episode is brought to you by Paramount plus on May 15th, Beth and Rip are back in a new series. Dutton Ranch. Kelly Riley and Cole Hauser return, and this time they're taking on Texas as Beth and Rip build a future together. Peace will have to wait as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch willing to protect its secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch. Starring Cole Hauser and Kelly Reilly, Annette Benning and ed Harris. Streaming May 15th on Paramount this episode is brought to you by in the Gray. Written and directed by Guy Richie. My man. I love that dude. This blockbuster stars Jake Gyllenhaal, Henry Cavill and A.A. gonzalez as elite operatives with questionable morals. When billions get stolen, these are the pros that steal it back. Turning an impossible heist into an all hands on deck operation with plenty of action in a world of black and white. They operate in the gray. Only in theaters May 15th. Rated R. Under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian. This episode is brought to you by ZIP Recruiter. It's good to be passionate about something. Exploring what interests you adds more color to your life, makes it more fulfilling in a way. And that's not just limited to your personal life. If you run a business, you know how much of a difference it can make when the people on your team are excited about what they're doing. And if you don't, well, it's time to find out. With ZipRecruiter. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com Rogan it's been rated the number one hiring site based on G2. And that's because ZipRecruiter is always looking for ways to improve the hiring process, including its newest feature that lets you see the most qualified and more importantly, most interested people for your role. To make sure they're some of the first, you start talking to. Find candidates who really want your job. On Zip Recruiter. Four out of five employers who post on Zip Recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free@ziprecruiter.com Rogan that's ziprecruiter.com Rogan Meet your match. At ZipRecruiter, everybody's better off.
- [11:17]
Marcus King
And that's the shit, man. That's what I crave. And I mean, that's why, like, we just did a run of Texas honky tonks, which that's. That was kind of the. The goal was just to get everybody in these sweaty rooms just for the purpose of just, like, enjoying music again, Getting back to these sticky floors.
- [11:34]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, well, you reached out to me because we were talking on the podcast about how rock and roll is kind of dead, and you said that fucking rock and roll ain't dead. Come on. And I was like, all right, well, is anybody that could tell me that rock and roll's not dead? It's Marcus King, man.
- [11:50]
Marcus King
Yeah, I was. My boy, Ben Jernigan, he told me, he was like, you should text Joe, because I'm an avid listener. I was like, you think I should say something? He's like, yeah, fucking tell him. Rock and roll ain't dead, man. It's here tonight. Green Hall.
- [12:05]
Joe Rogan
Well, it's not dead, but it's different. And a lot of the rock that's out now that. That's doing really well is like a Southern inspired rock, which is interesting. There's like a Southern almost country, like rock, like bluesy country rock, you know, Red clay, strays, like that kind of. They're doing great. Yeah, it's like, there's a lot of that out there. You know, like people. People are digging that kind of music. But there's just, you know, when I talk about, like, rock, I mean, like when I was in high school, it was all Van Halen, acdc. Like, that. There was so many big rock and roll bands. The Stones, you know, there was just so much of that out there. And it's odd that there's not a lot of big bands like that anymore.
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Marcus King
I think it's coming back around.
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Joe Rogan
I gotta hope so. Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me because, like, the classic rock is still, like, we're in the green room and Freebird comes on. Still, everybody's going nuts. I mean, you know, I mean, there's classics, another Southern rock and roll band, Leonard Skynyrd. But there's. There's still, like, a love of that kind of music. But it's just. It's weird that it kind of, you know, just didn't. I don't know what happened.
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Marcus King
Well, it's interesting how cyclical the music industry can be. And, like, I feel like for the first time in the last 10 years, like, since Urban Cowboy came out, like, because, I mean, for the last 10 years, I've been going to LA with a cowboy hat on. And I always get the same, like, well, where you want to park your horse? You know, like, what are you up to? Cowboy people just talking shit. But now I go out there and everybody's got a cowboy hat on.
- [13:57]
Joe Rogan
Really?
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Marcus King
It's like, chic. Yeah.
- [14:00]
Joe Rogan
That's interesting.
- [14:01]
Marcus King
It's, like, in vogue, like, the cowboy thing and makes you not want to
- [14:05]
Joe Rogan
wear a cowboy hat.
- [14:08]
Marcus King
Well, you know, it's just. I think rock and roll is kind of having a similar resurgence.
- [14:13]
Joe Rogan
God, I hope so. I hope so. You know, I mean, there's got to be people out there that still love it. And I just don't. I mean, I just don't understand how there's no new big bands like that.
- [14:29]
Marcus King
Well, it's interesting. You know, I was actually. I was in the gym watching Led Zeppelin at Royal Albert Hall.
- [14:38]
Joe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- [14:39]
Marcus King
And I was like, this is a fucking jam band. They're jamming.
- [14:42]
Joe Rogan
Mm.
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Marcus King
You know, and I'm like, it just like the Allman Brothers Band was a jam band. Like, they had guidelines, and that's kind of how we do our show. Like, we have songs that we're playing just to get to that improvisational section where we can just kind of, you know, work with the chemistry of the crowd and each other on stage. And it's just. It's interesting to me, like, the way things have become subdivided. You know, it's like, you're not a jam band unless it's, like, Widespread or, like, Fish or, like, the Dead or something like that. But, like, Zeppelin was a jam band.
- [15:18]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, in a lot of ways. Yeah. Especially when they're performing live.
- [15:22]
Marcus King
Yeah.
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Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's. What is that band that sounds like Zeppelin?
- [15:29]
Marcus King
Greta Van Fleet.
- [15:30]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, Greta man Fleet. They're great.
- [15:32]
Marcus King
They are.
- [15:32]
Joe Rogan
It's weird. It's weird because they sound so much like Zeppelin, but they're really good. So, like, I give them pass.
- [15:41]
Marcus King
They get a pass from me. I mean, they're my boys. I really like those dudes. Like, we used to party together a bunch. They live in Nashville. And the guitar player, Jake, he's just the sweetest guy. Like, he gave me a housewarming gift. He's, like, really into pirate stuff.
- [16:01]
Joe Rogan
Pirate stuff?
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Marcus King
Yeah, he's really into piracy. And he gave me like a. Like a musket pistol.
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Joe Rogan
Oh, wow.
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Marcus King
What a pirate would have carried around.
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Joe Rogan
I got a real one.
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Marcus King
Yeah.
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Joe Rogan
So, like, from the olden days.
- [16:16]
Marcus King
Yeah.
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Joe Rogan
Oh, that's gonna be worth a lot of money.
- [16:19]
Marcus King
Yeah. I mean, they're doing pretty well.
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Joe Rogan
Wow. What is a old musket pistol? Run. How much can you get one of them for? See if you can find something, Jamie. Yeah, an old musket pistol. You know, when the conquistadors took over Mexico, that's. They had 12 of those. That's it.
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Marcus King
12 guns?
- [16:39]
Joe Rogan
12 musket pistols.
- [16:41]
Marcus King
Wow.
- [16:41]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, I looked that up on Perplexity. I was diving deep into how the Mexico became Spanish. You know, like, what happened? How did it. Like, they lost like a hundred indigenous languages at least.
- [16:54]
Marcus King
Wow.
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Joe Rogan
It's kind of crazy, but here it is. What you can get one from 195 bucks Modern Reproduction. Oh, reproductions. What about a real one down here? Antique ones. 17th century Barbie Wars. Antique pirate flintlock pistol, recently sold for 416. That's it. No, that seems crazy. That seems crazy. That's a.
- [17:23]
Marcus King
It's pretty good for a gift budget.
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Jamie
I'd say it looks based on how many reproductions and what you just said, there being 12 back then, there might not be that many of them that exist. They have to make reproductions.
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Joe Rogan
But if this says Antique Pirate Era muskets and it said it sold for 416 bucks. I mean, from the 17th century, maybe
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Jamie
it sucks,
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Joe Rogan
but it's for the 1600s and it sold for 416 bucks.
- [17:47]
Jamie
I'll try to look it up.
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Joe Rogan
Can you see what. What those look like? We'll see if we can get one. We should get one and put it on the wall. Oh, shit. Look at that one. How much is that one?
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Jamie
I think that's the one that sold for 400 bucks.
- [18:00]
Joe Rogan
That says $155. That's crazy. How are they so cheap?
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Jamie
There's the one for 416.
- [18:11]
Joe Rogan
God, that seems like they should be almost priceless. I mean, this is from the fucking 1600s. And it's sold for 400 bucks. That one sold for 200 bucks.
- [18:23]
Jamie
Wow. Just go pick them up. There's a store in Austin. I bet they've got a bunch.
- [18:27]
Joe Rogan
No way. Yeah.
- [18:28]
Jamie
Really? I went to the store. They've got a bunch of weird shit like this. They must have. They would have to have thrown 300 bucks, I guess I would say. And all kinds of armor and guns and cannons and weird shit.
- [18:37]
Joe Rogan
What. What place is this?
- [18:39]
Jamie
It's called, like, collectors. Look it up real quick.
- [18:43]
Joe Rogan
There's something weird about those dudes who, like, want to recreate wars. Yeah, that's an odd thing. That's a very odd thing. Yeah.
- [18:51]
Marcus King
I mean, I've got the facial hair of a Civil war reactor, but that's about as close as I get on the.
- [19:00]
Joe Rogan
Oh, wow. That's in Austin.
- [19:03]
Jamie
Yeah.
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Marcus King
No.
- [19:05]
Jamie
Yeah.
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Joe Rogan
Well, that's pretty dope.
- [19:07]
Jamie
Yeah.
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Joe Rogan
Collector's crossroads.
- [19:09]
Jamie
Popped in there one day to see what it was about.
- [19:11]
Joe Rogan
And they have little musket pistols.
- [19:13]
Jamie
They got all kinds of.
- [19:14]
Joe Rogan
I wonder how do you know the crossbows?
- [19:16]
Jamie
Swords.
- [19:17]
Joe Rogan
Crossbow is just a shitty gun. I'm not a fan.
- [19:22]
Jamie
What if it was a pirate's crossbow?
- [19:24]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, I guess it's kind of cool, but it's just. It is weird that we're really into, like, old, like, you know, it's interesting. You're holding something that's a piece of history and what history is. Like, at the time, this was the. Like, at the time, this was, like, the coolest thing you can get. Like, 400 years ago, if you wanted to kill somebody, this was the way to do it. You had to get one of these things, which is very odd. Yeah, this is very odd, that. Oh, look at all this.
- [19:54]
Jamie
I don't know if it was George Washington there, but they had. That's what it looks like.
- [19:58]
Joe Rogan
It would be George Washington swords.
- [20:00]
Jamie
I don't know.
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Joe Rogan
We should get one of those for Shane. He's a big George Washington fan. There you go. Oh, wow. Look at that. That's crazy.
- [20:11]
Jamie
Yeah. I mean, I don't even know.
- [20:13]
Joe Rogan
That's a weird one. Look at the handle on that.
- [20:15]
Jamie
This is from Middle east, Central Asia. That could be.
- [20:17]
Joe Rogan
Oh, look, it's got, like, a dragon mouth on the back of it.
- [20:20]
Jamie
That's pretty Sweet.
- [20:21]
Marcus King
Wow.
- [20:22]
Joe Rogan
Huh? All right, so we need one of those. Let's take a road trip. Jamie. We should probably do it before this episode comes out.
- [20:29]
Jamie
Grab it tonight.
- [20:30]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, we need to go down there today before this episode. Up their business. You go there, it's empty. All these dorks have armor all over their house now. It's just people that are really into like the old wars and recreating old wars. I always, I always want to know like, what's wrong with you? Like what happened to you.
- [20:52]
Marcus King
Yeah, it's. I grew up with a kid that was like that, that was obsessed with like everything. Army, Navy. But his father was in the military. But he had never gone into the military. They wouldn't accept him.
- [21:07]
Joe Rogan
Why?
- [21:09]
Marcus King
I don't know. He was. I don't think he could ever pass the physical. He was a bigger dude.
- [21:14]
Joe Rogan
Oh, okay.
- [21:14]
Marcus King
His name was Maurice.
- [21:16]
Joe Rogan
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- [22:22]
Marcus King
I believe it, man. Just based on my own experience. Like I remember the Presidential Fitness Test. Like that's a bad memory of mine. Just hanging on the pull up bar in front of all my classmates and not being able to do one pull up. Just hanging there.
- [22:39]
Joe Rogan
What is the Presidential Fitness Test?
- [22:42]
Marcus King
It's something they did when I was a kid. It's like they wanted to make sure that you could do like 10 push ups or however many pull ups or whatever.
- [22:50]
Joe Rogan
How many pull ups do you have to do for the Presidential Fitness Test?
- [22:53]
Jamie
There's different standard but they literally this was going on last week. They just Started it up again. Donald Trump had like Bryson DeChambeau in the white House with a couple guys,
- [23:01]
Joe Rogan
Gary Player and kids.
- [23:03]
Jamie
Well, they had kids in there also.
- [23:05]
Joe Rogan
That's funny. It's funny because I'd go, hey, why don't you do it? Let me see you do it up, bro.
- [23:14]
Jamie
22 push ups for a 10 year old.
- [23:16]
Joe Rogan
22 push ups, that's a lot.
- [23:20]
Marcus King
Yeah. 45 curl ups, that's crazy.
- [23:22]
Joe Rogan
Six pull ups, that's a lot. What's a curl up with the other
- [23:25]
Jamie
way, like biceps, hands, you know, pull up with your hand.
- [23:29]
Joe Rogan
45?
- [23:29]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [23:30]
Joe Rogan
Come on. That's crazy. Wait a minute.
- [23:34]
Jamie
In an eight minute mile.
- [23:36]
Joe Rogan
Come on. Is that really. It says six pull ups or 45 curl ups. But curl ups aren't that much easier than pull ups, are they?
- [23:44]
Jamie
I remember when I was 10, they were what? But that's just being a 10 year old because your body, you only weigh like 60, you know, I don't know. Kids are light, usually lighter than I am.
- [23:53]
Marcus King
I was heavier than most.
- [23:54]
Jamie
Yeah. I was gonna say there are different standards. I remember kids.
- [23:57]
Joe Rogan
Some kids, but bro, 45 is crazy.
- [24:00]
Marcus King
That seems, seems excessive.
- [24:02]
Joe Rogan
That seems like a lot of reps. I don't even understand how that's possible. That that's the standard. I don't think I could do that.
- [24:10]
Jamie
Actually. I think there was their sit ups. It's calling it a curl up because here it says it measures.
- [24:15]
Joe Rogan
Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Sit ups. Okay. Why are they calling it curl ups? Because it was like 45 chin ups. So it's like there's pull ups and chin ups. Which one's a pull up? Which one's a chin up?
- [24:28]
Jamie
Pull up? Hands over.
- [24:29]
Joe Rogan
Okay. And then chin up.
- [24:30]
Jamie
And I was saying, yeah, that's what I.
- [24:32]
Joe Rogan
45 of those would be bonkers. That's crazy. I can't do that. That's because like six pull ups I could do easy. But 45. But 45 sit ups is still hard. That's hard too. Well, that's a lot.
- [24:46]
Jamie
It's a standard.
- [24:47]
Marcus King
Huh?
- [24:48]
Jamie
That's your kids there.
- [24:50]
Joe Rogan
That seems like a lot of kids wouldn't be there for 45 sit ups.
- [24:53]
Jamie
Yep.
- [24:56]
Joe Rogan
What are they trying to do?
- [24:57]
Marcus King
What are they doing to us?
- [24:58]
Joe Rogan
I would fail on that too. So they couldn't draft me. These motherfuckers are talking about drafting people. I listening to Tim Dillon show and he was saying that, pal, see if this is true, that Palantir thinks that we should reintroduce conscription. Conscription. That kids should start getting Drafted again into military. And they should have mandatory military experience for kids. I just don't understand why anybody would want to support that. That sounds crazy. Especially after this Iran war where everybody's like, why the are we in Iran? And if you signed up for that, that sounds nuts. Is that real? Palantir is publicly called for the US to move away from an all volunteer military and towards some form of universal national service that many observers interpret as reintroducing a draft or conscription.
- [25:50]
Jamie
Yeah, Tim got into this manifesto that I didn't. I haven't looked into this yet.
- [25:56]
Joe Rogan
Why the would a tech company be saying that we need to move towards a universal national military service? How about you? How about you? You go. Because you know, none of these tech dorks that are running these companies, they're not doing it. Like, what are you, what are you talking about?
- [26:16]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [26:17]
Joe Rogan
Throwing meat into the machine.
- [26:19]
Marcus King
Right.
- [26:19]
Joe Rogan
Throwing people's children into these unnecessary wars. You.
- [26:25]
Marcus King
It's scary.
- [26:25]
Joe Rogan
It's very scary. It's scary that they would like, how about let's figure out a way to use your technology so there's no more wars. Wouldn't that be a better goal?
- [26:34]
Marcus King
Right.
- [26:35]
Joe Rogan
Instead of getting kids to learn how to go shoot people they don't know.
- [26:40]
Marcus King
Sure.
- [26:40]
Joe Rogan
Because someone tells you to. And how many of these, out of all the wars that we've been in Since World War II, is it zero? That made sense? I think it's zero. I mean, there's one war that we've been in since World War II that makes any fucking sense at all.
- [26:56]
Marcus King
Sure.
- [26:57]
Joe Rogan
And they're like, I think the solution is we need more people to be forced into it.
- [27:04]
Marcus King
I mean, what would a draft look like in today's culture? I mean like with inclusion, would it be like anybody at 18 years old can be drafted or do you think it would still be just able bodied young men?
- [27:17]
Joe Rogan
That's a good question. I, you know, I'm for people doing whatever they want, but when it comes to like combat, you're gonna draft women? That would be insane. That would be insane. So are you knocking? Are you gonna be sexist? Are you gonna.
- [27:38]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [27:38]
Joe Rogan
Are you gonna go inclusion and say everybody has to do it? Well, then that'll be good for America. Because most people would say, get the out of here. Not a chance in hell we're doing that.
- [27:49]
Marcus King
Right.
- [27:50]
Joe Rogan
I just don't understand how people that aren't elected officials that essentially just run a tech company would think it's a good idea to call for national military service. I've heard other People say that too. I've heard, like, podcasters and weird tech people say it's a good idea, and I don't know what the they're thinking. I think they should have to go over there and experience war and then. And then come back and see if you really think the same thing.
- [28:14]
Marcus King
Sure, I buy that. I mean, or at least go on, like, a USO tour or something. Go with Jeffrey Ross, see what it's about, you know?
- [28:23]
Joe Rogan
Well, then you're just gonna meet people that are happy to see you. You need to actually see combat. I just don't get why we're even listening to them. You make software keep doing that?
- [28:35]
Marcus King
Yeah. It's interesting that they don't even have the. Like, why would they say that?
- [28:41]
Joe Rogan
No, it doesn't sound good. And it's also. They make weird surveillance software that a lot are like. But how much are you surveillance? How much power do you have? Like, Tim Dylan went pretty deep on it on the show, which is. I can't recommend enough. If you did not listen to the Tim Dillon show, you're up. It's the funniest take on all the chaos that's going on in the world. I don't think there's anybody better right now. His. His podcast is phenomenal. It's my must. Listen to podcasts every week.
- [29:09]
Marcus King
Yep.
- [29:09]
Joe Rogan
It's so good. I just listen. But if you watch it, it's even more ridiculous. He did this thing about them giving Ozempic to babies. Oh, it was so funny. It was so ridiculous.
- [29:26]
Marcus King
My dad did Ozempic, and he said, man, you know, like, you can eat through that. He's like, you can just keep going. I mean, you won't feel great, but, you know, it curbs your appetite. But you can get it down.
- [29:40]
Joe Rogan
Well, Tim talked about it, because he did it, and he said it didn't just stop his desire for food, it stopped his desire for everything, which I've heard. So there's some people that think there's some good in these GLP1s for addiction because it curbs whatever that is as well. So it can help people with all kinds of addictions, too. Not just like, food addictions, alcohol, but gambling. Like, weird stuff.
- [30:10]
Marcus King
I heard that. Yeah, I did. I actually. I was doing it for a minute, and it was around the time that I was like, one of the times I was trying to quit drinking, and I was working on a record, and I was trying it out, and it actually curbed my desire for a drink.
- [30:27]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [30:27]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [30:28]
Joe Rogan
What else did it do?
- [30:31]
Marcus King
Gave Me, really bad stomach cramps.
- [30:32]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [30:34]
Marcus King
And also, I mean that was like before I really, I just, I don't know at that, at that time in my life, I just wasn't really concerned about what I put in my body. You know, I say that while I'm smoking a cigarette, but you know.
- [30:51]
Joe Rogan
But dude, you're smoking natural spirits. I think those are safe and effective.
- [30:56]
Marcus King
Yeah. You know, additive free.
- [30:59]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. I just, I always wonder about these things when things come along to give people an easy fix. Like, okay, maybe it works or maybe there's some sort of side effect that's going to you up for the rest of your life. And for some people there is. I mean, some people are experiencing all kinds of wild side effects. Stomach paralysis is one of them. Brian Simpson got pancreatitis from it. Really? Yeah, he was sick in bed for like two weeks. It him up.
- [31:28]
Marcus King
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean the long term effects, like you just have no idea because it's new.
- [31:34]
Joe Rogan
You know, I've also heard that the problem is the dosages are too high. And what, you know, when you go into a doctor, they give you a standard dosage. And the way to do it, some people feel is to make a much smaller dose than what they're prescribing and that that's what you need. You just need a little bit of a curb to it. Not like a complete cessation of all desire to eat.
- [32:00]
Marcus King
Right. Getting to that, that high dosage really fast could probably be harmful or have some discipline. Yeah.
- [32:10]
Joe Rogan
How about try that out? How about try out. Don't eat as much. Same thing.
- [32:14]
Marcus King
Right.
- [32:14]
Joe Rogan
Except this way it's not going to kill your body or kill your stomach or make you go blind or what are the side effects? Because there's a lot of lawsuits. There's a ton of lawsuits that are coming down the pipe because I think people have gone blind. I think I might have made that up. Check that. But this wild lawsuits.
- [32:37]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [32:37]
Joe Rogan
Where people are claiming bad side effects from this stuff. Which, you know, makes sense. It's medication. People vary biologically. Can cause permanent blindness.
- [32:48]
Jamie
Yeah.
- [32:49]
Joe Rogan
In one eye. Oh, well, you know, you got your other guy and now you got a six pack.
- [32:56]
Jamie
Eye stroke.
- [32:57]
Joe Rogan
Eye stroke. Oh boy.
- [33:00]
Marcus King
Wow.
- [33:01]
Joe Rogan
Non arteritic anterior ischemic optic neuropathy. I don't think I said that right. Sudden, painless, and often permanent blindness in one eye. Wow.
- [33:14]
Marcus King
Sounds like a punk band that does.
- [33:19]
Joe Rogan
Side effects. Acute pancreatitis. That's what Brian got. Gallbladder problems, gastroparesis, stomach paralysis, bowel Obstructions and potential thyroid tumors. Mild GI issues are common. These severe complications require immediate medical attention, often occurring more frequently at higher doses. Yeah, that's what they're saying. It's apparently when you're getting it from a pharmaceutical drug company, you're getting it. That this is the argument for compounding pharmacies, apparently. And then, then there's a new one that's coming out. What is it called? Retuotide retatrutide. And this one is supposed to be better because it doesn't cause muscle loss and it doesn't cause bone density loss. And it's supposed to be more effective. Huh. Investigational.
- [34:15]
Jamie
I mean, I don't. I just typed in Reddit.
- [34:18]
Joe Rogan
Isn't that a weird word? Investigational. Once weekly injectable triple agonist medication targeting GL1, GIP and glucogen receptors developed by Eli Lilly, showing unprecedented weight loss results of up to 24% in phase two trials. They said this is going to be a trillion dollar medication or have some discipline.
- [34:44]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [34:45]
Joe Rogan
Go to the gym, eat better. Be healthy. Do what Jelly Roll did.
- [34:49]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [34:50]
Joe Rogan
You know, Jelly Roll was at the club last night. He's down £300.
- [34:55]
Marcus King
That's nuts.
- [34:55]
Joe Rogan
He runs like five miles a day. He works out every day. He looks fantastic. He looks like a different person. It's like I. I knew him when he was like £500, and now I know him when he's in the twos. It's like he's a different human. He looks different. Like, I know it's still Jelly Roll, but it looks like a completely different man. It's nuts.
- [35:15]
Marcus King
I remember when we did. I was in the house band for Kill Tony at the Garden, and Jelly came out and did New York. New York.
- [35:23]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. I was there.
- [35:24]
Marcus King
That's got to be a custom suit. I was like, that's a big suit.
- [35:28]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [35:28]
Marcus King
And then the next time I saw him, he was like, he is now. And I mean, hell, like, what I did because, like, I have an appetite, you know, like what I do now, like, I. I'm basically doing like a keto diet because I like to eat a lot of whatever it is.
- [35:43]
Joe Rogan
Me too.
- [35:43]
Marcus King
So if it's like a big salad, you know, or whatever, but I'm down like £25 doing that.
- [35:48]
Joe Rogan
Oh, that's nice.
- [35:49]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [35:49]
Joe Rogan
Are you doing this with the help of a nutritionist? Are you just doing it on your own?
- [35:53]
Marcus King
Just doing it on my own,
- [35:56]
Joe Rogan
yeah.
- [35:57]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [35:57]
Joe Rogan
You're laughing.
- [35:58]
Marcus King
Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, it's just. I've tried a few different routes, man. I've been, you know, husky since I was a kid and shopping in the husky department at Kmart, you know, Is this.
- [36:12]
Joe Rogan
Do you think it's a genetic thing? Do you think it's the way you ate as a child? What do you think?
- [36:17]
Marcus King
I think psychological, a lot of was, like, the only thing I had control of as a. As a child is, like, food. It was, like. And a scarcity mindset as well.
- [36:28]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [36:29]
Marcus King
Just like, the way that I, you know, think about food is just, you know, probably not the healthiest. So for me, it's just easier to say, like, I don't eat these things because, like, if I eat bread or something like that, it just hurts my stomach now, you know, And I just. I can feel, like, the difference when I don't eat it, you know, I just feel better. I have more energy.
- [36:52]
Joe Rogan
100%.
- [36:53]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [36:53]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. And once you get your body working on ketones, too, the thing is, you just. Your brain functions better. That's one of the more interesting things. That's why people take things like. Like ketone. What is it? Ketone iq? That stuff's great. Like, you just down one of those little shots, and it puts you into ketosis temporarily.
- [37:14]
Marcus King
Oh, really?
- [37:15]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. They're exogenous ketones. I think the guy who just invented those just died. He was also a guy that worked for Ballco Labs. He developed the. The clear. That shit that Barry Bonds took. Okay, the steroids. So this guy was a chemist. He was a scientist. I think someone. Oh, I think Chris Bell. Chris Bell or Mark. I think it was Mark Bell just posted about it on his Instagram page that this guy just died. This guy was, like, one of America's great chemists, and he developed a lot of these things, including exogenous ketones, according to Mark. But that's one of the things that I noticed when I went into. When I did the carnivore diet, and is that immediately my brain just started functioning better, which is what I try to eat most of the time. Like this morning, I ate sausage and eggs and sausage from an animal that I shot. I like to do that. I like Sable. This is the guy. So this is Mark's Instagram, the greatest chemist of our time and possibly any other. Patrick Arnold is dead. Patrick Arnold is the guy who made the cream and the clear for the bonds. And McGuire. Oh, that bons. McGuire blasted home runs off of supposedly. In addition to those incredible inventions, he also brought exogenous ketones to the market. What happened to that guy? How did he Die.
- [38:38]
Marcus King
That's an interesting picture to put up.
- [38:40]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [38:40]
Marcus King
Looks like Oswald looking at Jack Ruby.
- [38:44]
Joe Rogan
He looks healthy. I want to know how he died. I wonder how old that picture was. Organic chemists Androstene Dione too. Oh he, he had all those pro. What are the. What are those pro hormones or whatever those things were that people were taking that weren't totally steroids but they were kind of steroid. Like how did he die? Does it say?
- [39:12]
Jamie
It's a weird website too.
- [39:17]
Joe Rogan
He died at 60. H. Maybe he's experimenting on himself. Why don't just did put in cause of death. I know it should come up. You would think a guy who's working on like performance and fitness. Does it say.
- [39:44]
Jamie
No. There's a Reddit post but I don't
- [39:49]
Joe Rogan
know when you click on what happened. Oh, to David Arnold. Oh, Patrick Arnold. Huh. So it just doesn't say how he died.
- [39:57]
Jamie
Nope. And it just happened. So there's no.
- [40:01]
Joe Rogan
Okay. So it hasn't been released yet. Made a lot of roids. You gotta wonder. The dude is like doing so much work in anabolic steroids. He worked for balco. They were the ones that were making undetectable steroids. You know about that whole story. This is back in the. Was it in the 90s Jamie? The, the, the McGuire around 2000. So they developed steroids that were undetectable. So when they would test for steroids what they would do is they would take. Because when I guess the way it works is when they're doing a steroid test they're looking for very specific molec. So they invented a molecule that had like additional things attached to it where it wouldn't show up. Probably butchering that. But essentially there were undetectable steroids. One of them was called the Clear and the guy who ran the lab was called BALCO Laboratories. There's this guy, Victor Conti who eventually went to jail for that. And then when he. I don't know why he went to jail but he got out and then became an anti steroid sort of activist. And he was, I don't want to say activist, but he was essentially he was ratting people out and saying that this guy's probably doing steroids and this is how he's doing it. And then a lot of athletes were using his company to use steroid free performance enhancing supplements that were legal. So he would show you what's legal and how to do it. He knew a lot about it because he did the illegal stuff too.
- [41:31]
Marcus King
Interesting. Yeah, I've got. I've gotten a couple steroid shots, like, before a show. Like, if my voice goes out, like,
- [41:40]
Joe Rogan
what kind is it? Like a cortisone or.
- [41:42]
Marcus King
I guess that's what it is. It's like that one that they shoot in your ass cheek.
- [41:47]
Joe Rogan
What does that do, like, for your voice, when your voice just.
- [41:50]
Marcus King
Just brings you back.
- [41:51]
Joe Rogan
Man. It's got to be rough when a singer loses their voice.
- [41:55]
Marcus King
Yeah. I mean, people have asked me before, like, what my warm up routine is, and, like, I've never had one. And two cigarettes. A couple cigarettes. It used to be shot of whiskey. If I was really in dire straits, I would take, like, a handful of sugar free gummy bears and put boiling water on that.
- [42:15]
Joe Rogan
Really?
- [42:15]
Marcus King
And then the gummy bears would, like, coat my throat.
- [42:18]
Joe Rogan
Huh.
- [42:18]
Marcus King
Like honey, ginger, lemon.
- [42:20]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Hot water and lemon is a really good one. There's something about that that's really.
- [42:25]
Marcus King
It's like time off is what fucks my voice up more than anything.
- [42:29]
Joe Rogan
Time off?
- [42:29]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [42:30]
Joe Rogan
Really? Oh, so, like, your vocal cords get out of shape.
- [42:32]
Marcus King
Mm.
- [42:34]
Joe Rogan
Interesting.
- [42:35]
Marcus King
Because it's hard to, like, keep them up, you know?
- [42:37]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [42:38]
Marcus King
Unless you're, like, going in your garage and screaming for two hours a night, you know?
- [42:42]
Joe Rogan
That's crazy. I never thought about it like that. Like, your vocal cords are essentially a muscle like any other, and they develop over time, and you get endurance. That makes sense.
- [42:52]
Marcus King
Yeah. So, like, the pandemic was, like, the first time that a lot of us, like, had any extended amount of time off from the road, and we all started noticing, like, or at least me, like, I came back, like, hurting a little bit.
- [43:07]
Joe Rogan
Oh, that makes sense. I saw Guns N Roses in Athens, Greece, and Axl Rose, you know, has that crazy singing style.
- [43:18]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [43:18]
Joe Rogan
It's like, like. And that has to be hell on your voice. And, you know, the show was amazing, but his voice is not the same. It's just. There's no way it can be.
- [43:31]
Marcus King
I know Steven Tyler. Like, he's back.
- [43:34]
Joe Rogan
Is he?
- [43:34]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [43:35]
Joe Rogan
So he quit for a while because he was like, I can't sing. And then he healed up, and now he's back again.
- [43:41]
Marcus King
I don't know exactly what he did, but I. I played with him back in January, and, like, the boys. Really? Boys back?
- [43:48]
Joe Rogan
No, that's great.
- [43:50]
Marcus King
Singing his ass off.
- [43:52]
Joe Rogan
That's great. I love to hear that. I saw the Stones a couple years ago at Circuit of the Americas, and Mick Jagger can still wail. Yeah, he could still whale that. That was a great show. Almost surreal.
- [44:07]
Marcus King
He's got a lot of energy, too.
- [44:08]
Joe Rogan
Man, so much energy.
- [44:09]
Marcus King
It's crazy.
- [44:10]
Joe Rogan
He has two trailer trucks that he brings with them that are just gym equipment.
- [44:14]
Jamie
Wow.
- [44:15]
Joe Rogan
Everywhere they go, two big ass trailer trucks just filled with gym equipment. They say works out seven days a week.
- [44:21]
Marcus King
That's awesome.
- [44:22]
Joe Rogan
And he's 180,000 years old. He's still up there. Still. And then Keith Richards, opposite approach. Whiskey, cocaine, lsd. No problems. Still there too. So it's like, yeah, find something you love and stick with it.
- [44:37]
Marcus King
I know, it's so funny. Like, it makes me think of like, we went out with Willie a few times and Willie's got like. Like most artists, he's got like 18 tractor trailers back there. But like, I don't know if you've been to a Willie Nelson show recently. It's like there's nothing on stage. I'm like, what's in all these fucking trucks? I never really got to the bottom of that. But there's like seven or eight truck drivers back.
- [45:03]
Joe Rogan
It's all weed.
- [45:05]
Marcus King
It must be all weed or something go in.
- [45:07]
Joe Rogan
There's all grow lights and plants. And he's got that drink that they sell. Oh, yeah, he's got that weed drink.
- [45:15]
Marcus King
Will his remedy.
- [45:16]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. And Ron White brought some to the green room of the comedy mothership. And someone was saying, oh, you can't get it. That's not real. I'm like, it's real as. Dude, that stuff's very legit.
- [45:27]
Marcus King
It's real.
- [45:27]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's very. I don't know what the rules are, the laws.
- [45:31]
Marcus King
Are you starting to become like a gray area?
- [45:35]
Joe Rogan
It should be. I mean, they just made it Schedule 3. Okay. So what that means is. And I mean, listen, it's a great step in the right direction. I'm very happy that the president did that. It really should be regulated the same way alcohol is. It should be for adult use, 21 and older. It shouldn't be. Maybe. I wonder what the issue. Well, I'm sure there's a bunch of issues, right? There's like lobbies that are trying to keep it illegal. Like, there's the alcohol lobby that doesn't want it legal because it cuts down on alcohol sales. And I know they lobby to try to make sure those laws stay in place. And then unfortunately, you have prison guard unions that lobby for it, which is, all right, they want to keep their job. And so the way they keep their job is to keep people locked up. And the way they keep people locked up is keep laws that don't make sense, like up. That's a That's an evil that it's. It just doesn't make any sense. If you can buy alcohol, you should be able. Like, I'm not saying you should drink alcohol. You don't drink alcohol anymore. Like I said, I took months off. It's like, you should have some self control. And I know some people don't, but get your together, you should. But other people are fine with alcohol. They go to the bar, have a drink or two, go home, go out to dinner, have a drink, go at home, have a drink while they're watching tv and they're fine. Yeah, it should be a personal choice. No adult should be able to tell you what you can and can't do and be able to lock you up in a cage if you don't listen. That's nuts. And in a free country. In this country is as free as it gets in this world. There's no way weed should be illegal. It should be regulated, and it should be only for people that are adults, where, you know, you have to be 21 to be able to buy it. Look, it's never stopped kids from getting alcohol. They still get alcohol. It's not stopping kids right now from getting weed. They can still get weed, but if it was legal and regulated, first of all, we'd get taxes from it, and that would be huge for every state. You'd get a. A ton of tax money that you're not getting right now. And also you would keep people from getting locked up for their own personal choices, which is just insane. Yeah, I mean, not a lot of people get locked up for personal use these days. That's pretty rare. But there's still. There's just way too many laws.
- [47:57]
Marcus King
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting too. Like, if you have like, like CBD flour, like, technically that's legal.
- [48:06]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [48:07]
Marcus King
So, like, if you just put some of your cannabis in a CBD container, like, are there ways to, like, test that on the side of the road? Like, if you get pulled and they
- [48:15]
Joe Rogan
search your car, not on the side of the road, but they could confiscate it and then test it, I think. But there's weird things about, like, legalization of. I was watching a YouTube video about what Texas's laws were, and Texas's laws are the amount of THC by volume. So the thing about that is if you get, like, gummies, like a 10 milligram gummy will pass that by volume and be legal. So are you saying that people can take 10 milligram THC gummies and that's Legal, because they'll you up. Like, if you don't smoke weed, a 10 milligram THC gummy will have you going, dude, take two of those and who knows what's going to happen to you.
- [49:05]
Marcus King
I just watched this movie that a friend of mine was in this movie, Lainey Wilson, and we watched the movie, and I don't want to spoil the movie for anybody, but it turns out that the girl, like, she went to jail because she was impaired while driving, and she was impaired by weed gummies. And I was like, that's kind of okay.
- [49:27]
Joe Rogan
Well, depends on how much you took. Yeah, but if you take 200 milligrams to get behind a wheel, you're not even exactly sure what the road is.
- [49:35]
Marcus King
200 milligrams is a lot. Yeah, right.
- [49:37]
Joe Rogan
So that's pretty impaired. That's a. That's equivalent to like eight shots of whiskey and then getting in your truck. Yeah, right. You're impaired.
- [49:43]
Marcus King
I guess you're right.
- [49:44]
Joe Rogan
I don't think you should drive on weed. I definitely don't think you should drive up. But it's like the same. Like, I don't advocate drinking and driving either, but if you have like one drink and drive like, you're gonna feel like a little relaxed and lubricated. But I don't know how much you'll be. And it also varies on who the person is. If the person is used to drinking all the time, one drink is not going to do a damn thing to them. But for some people, one drink will make you drive stupid. You'll do stupid things. Yeah, it's. It's a. It's all a personal responsibility thing. That's. That's the bottom line about all of it. And, yeah, you shouldn't be out there drinking and driving. You shouldn't be out there eating 500 milligram edibles and fucking driving in a car. No, no such.
- [50:31]
Marcus King
I remember one time my drummer had this, like, THC spray. Have you ever fucked with that?
- [50:37]
Joe Rogan
Oh, yeah, we had that back in California. Like breast spray.
- [50:41]
Marcus King
Yeah. And I was. I was still drinking at the time, and me and my wife were both just hammered and we were on this. A ferry. Like, the tour bus goes onto the ferry and the ferry carries you over from France to the uk and we were like, sitting in the lounge area on the ferry or lounge area on the ferry, rather. And he had this spray and I was like, it's not doing anything. Me and my wife both kept just spraying it. No, I woke up in my bed just like in A cartoon just like completely removed from reality, just. And yeah, it was a bad, bad scene.
- [51:21]
Joe Rogan
I remember one time I took a. They had these THC breath strips that they used to sell. And the problem with these things, and this is back in the pre legalization days of pre 2016 in California. And so each store you would get weed at, like they would have medical stores. So you could go to a doctor and say, hey doc, I got a headache. And they go, you need medicine. And they would write your prescription and then you can go. And there's always reasons to have it. Just like there's reasons to have Tylenol. Do you get a headache? Yeah. Well then you need it. Do you have a backache? Yeah. Well then you need it. So you could get it pretty easy. And they had these breaststrips and I took one and I got on a plane and I closed my eyes when I was lying on the plane and I was watching neon, like cartoon characters that are made out of neon light. And they were having sex. It was an orgy of. And I was just lying there with my eyes closed watching these cartoon neon characters. And they were in like complete blackness, like void. So it was just the colors of their weird bodies just banging each other. And then they would shift shapes and another one will pile on and they would. I was like, this is crazy. It was very psychedelic. It was almost like. But when I'd opened my eyes, the world was normal.
- [52:39]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [52:39]
Joe Rogan
It wasn't like I was. The world was wiggling and. And I was just sitting. I didn't have anything to do. I was flying all the way to New York. It was a six hour flight. By the time it landed, I'd sobered up. But I was like, this is crazy. Like, how much is in these fucking things? Because they're not making them the same labs where they're making Tylenol, you know, I mean, it's some hippie, some dude who's like pouring weed into a machine and can't remember whether or not he put weed in there because he's high as fuck. So he adds double. They're very inconsistent.
- [53:07]
Marcus King
It's like the microdoses that I used to get in Macon, Georgia. I was like, some of these are stronger than other ones. He's like, yeah. So depending on the day, my boy Hubble's like, you know, he's gonna ride it for whatever it is.
- [53:23]
Joe Rogan
Well, that's why we need legalization regulation. That's the beautiful thing about whiskey. You get a glass of whiskey, you get a shot, you Know exactly what that shot's gonna do. The shots of whiskey have been having the same impact on human beings for hundreds of years.
- [53:36]
Marcus King
You can quantify it.
- [53:37]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. And that's how it should be with all these things. But the problem is, when they're outlawed, you know, some of them are, you know, a glass of wine. Some of them are moonshine. Like you. You need regulation. And it's the idea that there's laws against people's personal choices. Just stupid, man. There's plenty of laws that are good. Don't murder people. Don't rob. Don't rape. Don't do this, don't do that. That's great. Don't vandalize. Great, great laws makes sense. Better society laws on personal choices, Especially things that you might enjoy, like having a joint with your wife, you know, after dinner and just sitting there and watching Netflix together. Like, the armed thugs can burst into your house and take the joint away from you. Like, who are we protecting? Who we serving? Who we protecting? And serving with that. That's dumb.
- [54:29]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [54:29]
Joe Rogan
It's just bad for society, and it creates this business. Once a business is established, the business of enforcement, once that business is established, that business doesn't want to go away. Because now you have a bunch of people whose jobs depend on enforcing laws, enforcing these things that don't make any sense, and they want to protect that because that's their livelihood. So now you got a quagmire. Now you're in a terrible situation. There's no easy way out other than ripping the band aid off and making it legal. You're also propping up the cartels. That's the other problem with it Being completely illegal in this country federally is like, well, guess what? It's. There's still a demand for it. So legal companies that actually employ people and give the employees health care and, you know, have rules and regulations now, they're not making it, so they're not growing it. So instead, you have cartels that are growing it in California on public land, because if you get caught, it's just a misdemeanor because it's legal in California. So literally, I think it's more than 80% of all the Lee. The weed that's sold in the United States that's illegal is grown in California on public lands by the cartel. And they use toxic pesticides and herbicides. They use all kinds of shit that you're not allowed to use in normal farming. And, you know, the only reason why it exists is because we've made these stupid laws so now that it's schedule three, it's in the same category as like Tylenol with codeine, which is not bad. It's better, certainly better than schedule one, which is ridiculous. So now hopefully once they do more testing and more studies, they can get to a point where federally it's legal and regulated. That would be the best case for everybody. Just in the same category as alcohol. Get all that tax money from it and then don't make criminals out of American citizens that just want to make personal choices. This episode is brought to you by ONX Off Road. Ever wonder how to reach these epic mountain lakes? They're tucked away dispersed campsites. With ONX off road, you'll find legal open trails around you and even better guided trails mapped by real off roaders. Each one includes photos, terrain, terrain descriptions and difficulty ratings so you'll know if your vehicle is capable before you go. Unlike other apps, Onx gives you turn by turn directions on the trail. And their new dispersed camping layer shows where you can legally set up camp. You also get private land boundaries, public land overlays, and the ability to download maps for offline use so that you're never guessing even when you're off the grid. It's a powerful tool built for serious off roaders. Try onx off road. For 50% off, go to on xmaps.com
- [57:27]
Marcus King
Joe Rogan when did it, when did it get scheduled as Schedule 1?
- [57:33]
Joe Rogan
Well, the whole Schedule 1 thing, this is, this is what I talked about when I went to the White House recently, which is a hilarious thing to say for a retard like me
- [57:45]
Marcus King
that
- [57:45]
Joe Rogan
I helped get things scheduled. I mean, when it all goes down in the history books, they attach my name to this, it's going to be really confusing. They're going to be like, fucking that guy. What? How? What the fuck happened? So when in 1970, the Richard Nixon administration passed the Controlled Substances act and it made dmt, psilocybin, lsd, all these different things, it made them schedule one so that they. The idea is that there was no benefit, including ibogaine, which is crazy, which means it has no medical benefit and harmful and addictive, all these different qualities that they attach to it. But the only reason they did that was to target the Civil Rights movement, the Civil rights movement and the anti war movement. That's what they were doing. They didn't like the fact that these people were causing trouble and then they were organizing, you know, marches and doing all these different things that were disrupting the government. And there was also this movement where people like, why are we living the way we're living? Like, this was the 60s. Like, why are we doing what we're doing? Like, well, I don't want to be like my parents. They're not happy. You know, I want to live a life that's, like, freer. I want to be filled with love and joy, and I want to, you know, have a good time and follow the Grateful Dead around. Like, so a lot of people in government were very concerned with this new movement. And if you go and like, music is a great example. Like, if you look at the music of the 1950s and then you look at the music of the 1960s, like, what the fuck happened?
- [59:18]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [59:18]
Joe Rogan
Like, if you look at the music of 2016 and the music of 2026, not much difference.
- [59:25]
Marcus King
Right, Right.
- [59:26]
Joe Rogan
It's all great. It's all. But it's like, it's not. There's not some revolutionary, crazy new change. But you saw that from 1959 to 1969, there is a radical difference.
- [59:37]
Marcus King
Difference.
- [59:37]
Joe Rogan
A radical difference. 1950, you got like, you go from Buddy Holly to Jimi Hendrix. You're like, okay, what the happened? Something crazy must have happened. And it's drugs. It's psychedelic drugs.
- [59:50]
Marcus King
It's like the stoned ape theory in, you know, our modern society.
- [59:55]
Joe Rogan
Exactly, exactly. And this terrified the administration, and they were really worried that they were going to completely lose control of the country. And so they passed this controlled Substances act, and that happened in 1970. And from that time on, we've been, you know, for 56 years, we've been under the grip of this stupid law that was passed by the Nixon administration that didn't make any sense. Some of the drugs that they attitude aren't even psychoactive. They just threw a bunch of stuff in there and they missed a bunch of potent ones. Yeah, they missed five methoxy dmt. They missed five meo dmt, which is one of the most potent psychedelics, if not the most potent psychedelic. You used to be able to buy that online.
- [60:43]
Marcus King
Oh, wow, dude.
- [60:45]
Joe Rogan
There was a company that you could order from and they would send you a jug of it as big as this. Now, the amount that gets you blasted into the center of the universe and introduces you to God is like the size. It's like the size that goes on your pinky. Yeah, like your pinky nail. Like that amount you smoke that, you'll see. God, wow. And you could just buy a jar of it online. There was a company called the American Chemical Company. American Chemical Company, or American Chemical Corporation. And you used to be able to just buy 5 methoxy DMT and they would just send it to you like a jar of vitamins.
- [61:22]
Marcus King
Wow.
- [61:24]
Joe Rogan
And then you could go to head shops and buy salvia.
- [61:27]
Marcus King
Oh, yeah.
- [61:28]
Joe Rogan
So salvia is a insanely potent psychedelic, which by the way, is also sage. Like sage is the same family, the same genus as salvia. So, like, think about it. Sage meaning wise. Like, like an old sage.
- [61:46]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [61:47]
Joe Rogan
And meanwhile, that is one of the most potent psychedelics in the world. And so kids were going to head chops and buying salvia. I don't know if they've made that illegal now. They probably have, right? Is salvia illegal now? I don't know. So, Ari Shafir on Brian Redband's podcast. Do you know this story?
- [62:10]
Marcus King
No.
- [62:10]
Joe Rogan
Okay. Ari Shaffir went on Brian Redband's podcast and took a giant hit of salvia and went under for like 10 minutes. And when he came back, he said that he had lived six months under the water with like, with an entire different community of human beings under the water, had relationships, had a job, like, had a six month experience and then came back in that 10 minutes. And he was so confused. He was so baffled. He's like, I had a life under there. I had a girlfriend, I had friends. He goes, I had all these experiences.
- [62:47]
Marcus King
Oh yeah, Ari's crazy, man.
- [62:50]
Joe Rogan
He's crazy, he's fun.
- [62:52]
Marcus King
He came out to my show in New York. He's the man.
- [62:55]
Joe Rogan
He is the man. But I mean that's, that's how potent this salvia stuff is. By the way, a lady had a very similar experience recently who went into a coma. So she was in a coma for an extended period of time. I want to say it was like a few months. And when she came out, she had a whole life that she said she had triplets and she had like, she was married, all these different things. Here's a story. She asked for her triplets after waking up from a coma. Doctors say they never existed. When she woke from a coma, first thing she did was ask for her three daughters. Medical staff was stunned. The response shattered her entire world. Just like that. The children she had nursed, watched grow, and deeply cared for over seven years were gone. So she was placed in a medically induced coma for three weeks. And what followed was a dream of a lifetime. Twite, literally. She was obviously not aware that she was in a coma. Instead, she slipped into a dream and a lifetime unfolded before her eyes. Talking to the outlet, the teen recalled having extremely Intense dreams and nightmares. She was not aware that she was in a coma at the time. So those dreams became her reality. So she became a mother. She said. It felt so real. She felt the physical and emotional pain throughout the hallucination. I could feel so many things when I dreamed about giving birth. I felt the stress. I also felt a lot of pain. In this dream, I gave birth to triplets who I named Mila, Miles and Miley. Miley died shortly after birth. I felt so awful. Overwhelmed with sadness and guilt. She recalled. She remembers the first skin to skin contact that she had with her babies. It was incredible. I felt an overwhelming wave of love. She added in her dream. She lived for seven years and watched her daughters grow up. Each had their own personalities. One was quite shy. The other was a bundle of energy. I remember walks, meals we shared and bedtime stories. She loved them with all her heart. And then she woke up from the coma and was told that her children never existed. That's when they told me they didn't exist. I was in shock. I was so convinced that it was real that the time I saw my parents again, I told them they were grandparents. Whoa. It makes you like wonder, like, what is reality? What is this thing that we're currently experiencing?
- [65:19]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [65:20]
Joe Rogan
And we're currently experiencing this thing. But what, what is this? Is this everything? Is this the whole thing? Or is this like one channel on an infinite radio and just while we're on that channel, we think this is the radio.
- [65:36]
Marcus King
Right.
- [65:37]
Joe Rogan
Well, maybe there's. Maybe when you go to sleep, maybe that's just as real as being awake.
- [65:45]
Marcus King
Heavy thought.
- [65:46]
Joe Rogan
But the idea that you just shut off every night is bananas. Yeah, we look forward to it. Oh, can't wait to just go away.
- [65:53]
Marcus King
Go away.
- [65:55]
Joe Rogan
Can't wait to not exist. And if you don't, like, like if I don't get enough sleep, I'm like, whatever, whatever happens during the, the dream time, the sleep time, the recovery, I feel it. I. I've my waking life, like I haven't done what I'm supposed to do by sleeping for an extended period of time. So my. This reality is compromised. This reality. I'm dumber. My memory sucks. I'm more tired. I don't have any energy. I can't wait to go to sleep. Can't wait to shut off so I could pay back the void. Pay back the void. The time I owe into the dreamland of bizarre dreams.
- [66:33]
Marcus King
Yeah. And just the symbolism of dreams too. I've been having a lot of crazy dreams lately. Like what I Dream about snakes a lot. Which is a good snake. It's a good sign.
- [66:44]
Joe Rogan
Is it?
- [66:45]
Marcus King
Yeah. Dreaming about snakes evidently just represents like, shedding your skin, going into something new,
- [66:51]
Joe Rogan
you know, growing, or you're surrounded by people who want to get you.
- [66:56]
Marcus King
Or maybe that which both can be true. You know, the music business.
- [67:04]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [67:05]
Marcus King
A lot of snakes.
- [67:07]
Joe Rogan
Isn't it every business, though?
- [67:09]
Marcus King
Yeah. I mean, just the idea, like, the business side is just so in contrast to like the artistic sensibility, you know, an artist is supposed to be. Not supposed to be, but just like psychological. Our makeup is more just like open and just more just like giving and wanting to share your craft with somebody and more emotional, you know?
- [67:33]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [67:35]
Marcus King
And then having to be like a shark and having to think like these snakes contracts. Yeah. Sign the darling. Marcus.
- [67:50]
Joe Rogan
You gonna make so much money, Marcus.
- [67:55]
Marcus King
It's only seven years. It's just seven years.
- [67:58]
Joe Rogan
With an extension. With options.
- [68:00]
Marcus King
With options. How's it going?
- [68:01]
Joe Rogan
You'll be free. Don't worry about these song rights.
- [68:05]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [68:05]
Joe Rogan
You'll have other songs in the future, right? That will be even better. Bet on yourself, Marcus. Take the money. Don't you want a big house? Don't you want a fancy car? You need a Rolex.
- [68:23]
Marcus King
Have you ever seen Late Night with the Devil?
- [68:25]
Joe Rogan
Yes. Yeah. That's the talk show.
- [68:28]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [68:29]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. That is great, man. Who made that?
- [68:33]
Marcus King
That's a good question.
- [68:34]
Joe Rogan
That's a really good movie.
- [68:36]
Marcus King
We watched it on the bus one night.
- [68:37]
Joe Rogan
I was like, whoa, that was like 2019 or something.
- [68:40]
Marcus King
It was heavy.
- [68:42]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. This was 2024. Oh. It's an Australian movie. Jack Delroy, the host of a failing. It's in 1977. Jack Delroy, the host of a failing late night show, decides decides to film a Halloween special. However, the broadcast takes a dark turn, unleashing evil into the nation's living rooms. Yeah, it's a dope movie. It's really fun. It's scary as too.
- [69:05]
Marcus King
It was scary.
- [69:06]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it was good, bro. You know, it's scary as and really good that I just found out about from my daughter. There's a new show called. Well, it's not even new. It's like four Seasons. It's called From. From. Yeah. Is it on, like, it's on Apple tv? I don't know if it's an Apple show, but it's on Apple tv. It's with the dude from Lost. One of the dads from Lost, Harold
- [69:33]
Jamie
Perrin,
- [69:37]
Joe Rogan
he's been in a lot of things. Yeah, he's great. And the show is terrifying. It is. It's very original and very weird. So it came out in 2022. Interesting.
- [69:51]
Jamie
First season premiered on episode Epics.
- [69:53]
Joe Rogan
Oh, okay. What's it on now? Is it just on Apple TV
- [70:01]
Jamie
release epics, MGM Plus.
- [70:05]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, so it says in 2018, YouTube Red. Remember we were talking about YouTube Red,
- [70:11]
Jamie
Canada, Elliots on Paramount plus idiots on Amazon Prime.
- [70:15]
Joe Rogan
I was on all over the place. Huh?
- [70:18]
Jamie
MGM plus is so.
- [70:20]
Joe Rogan
It appeared on Epics. I don't even know what MGM plus is. Maybe that's just the company. That's the production company. So in 2026, they renewed the series for a fifth and final season. It's good, man. It's good and it's really scary. It's really scary and creepy and horrific. It's about these people that are stuck in this town that doesn't make any sense. Like, the town doesn't make any sense, and you can't get out of the town. And at nighttime, people come out of the woods, but they're not people, and they're like these monsters. And if you let them into your house, you can't let them into your house. But if you let them in your house, they butcher you and tear you apart. And people, they try to trick you into letting you letting them into your house. Like, I'm not doing it justice. It's like. It sounds stupid, but
- [71:17]
Marcus King
here's the pitch.
- [71:19]
Joe Rogan
But it's. It's really scary, man. It's really scary and really creepy to the point, like, I'm watching, I get anxiety, and I don't like watching like that before I go to bed, because then I get, like, weird dreams and I start getting. Because it's like children are in trouble in it. I'm a father, and when I see children in trouble, I get. I freak out. You know, there's part of you like the sheepdog and, you know, just like.
- [71:40]
Marcus King
Right.
- [71:41]
Joe Rogan
So it's. It's a good show, though.
- [71:43]
Marcus King
My wife gets on to me. I like. It's like Forensic Files puts me out. I love it.
- [71:50]
Joe Rogan
You like that before you go to bed? I don't know why that's crazy.
- [71:53]
Marcus King
That's my comfort, how people murdered people.
- [71:56]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, I remember that show on hbo, the Autopsy Show. That was like, one of the first ones.
- [72:01]
Marcus King
Okay. Do you know that show, the Autopsy one?
- [72:04]
Joe Rogan
It was this guy, Dr. Michael Baden, and what he was was a forensic scientist that would catch people that had murdered people and got away with it. They would exhume bodies and find things, and it was all these different cases of where someone had gotten away with murder. But then they discovered how they did it. It's very, very interesting.
- [72:25]
Marcus King
Wow.
- [72:25]
Joe Rogan
Because people are weird, man. Like, you know, a lot of, like, wives poisoning their husbands. Like, multiple husbands died of similar ways and.
- [72:35]
Marcus King
Yep.
- [72:36]
Joe Rogan
Nurses that poisoned their. The people under their care.
- [72:41]
Marcus King
There's some up people out there.
- [72:42]
Joe Rogan
There's some up people out there, man. And the crazy thing is they get away with it. That's the crazy thing is, for every one that Michael Baden catches, how many of them get away with it?
- [72:54]
Marcus King
Yep.
- [72:55]
Joe Rogan
Like, what percentages of murders in America go unsolved? Let's put this into Perplexity, our AI Sponsor, and find out what the d. What do you think it is? What percentage of murders go unsolved in America?
- [73:11]
Marcus King
That's a good question. I mean, 50, 60%. Whoa. But I don't. I don't know how you would quantify it. I guess you find out.
- [73:22]
Joe Rogan
Well, someone gets murdered and they don't catch anybody.
- [73:24]
Marcus King
Oh, right.
- [73:25]
Jamie
Right.
- [73:25]
Marcus King
Okay.
- [73:26]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [73:27]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [73:28]
Jamie
It's half.
- [73:29]
Joe Rogan
Wow. So you're saying there's a chance. Approximately 40 to 50% of murders in the United States go unsolved. Means that roughly half of all homicide cases do not result in arrest or resolution. So I was talking to somebody, and someone who lives in their community got arrested because the wife went missing. And they got the wife's DNA from this guy's chainsaw. They have no body, they have no evidence other than there's some DNA on his chainsaw. And, you know, he's playing stupid. So he's in jail now, but everybody that knows him and like. Like these. These friends of mine, they know the family, they knew him, they knew her, and he's just in jail, and they don't know if they have enough evidence to convict him. And so he's been in jail for a while now, and they're trying to gather enough evidence for trial, but all they have is, like, DNA. I don't even know what that means. Like, how much DNA. Like, did he clean the chainsaw and not do a good job? I don't know what that means. Means.
- [74:41]
Marcus King
But was she, like, out, like, trimming hedges?
- [74:45]
Joe Rogan
Who knows? That's the thing. It's like you could use a chainsaw and accidentally scratch yourself. Like, you don't even have to cut yourself. It doesn't even have to be on. Like, if you're move. If you're, you know, taking a chain, I don't know why the wife would be taking a chainsaw out into the mean. Some women are capable and they do it.
- [75:03]
Marcus King
But my wife, you know, she would
- [75:06]
Joe Rogan
accidentally scraped your arm with this chainsaw and they went over every blade with a swab. They probably could find your DNA and go, oh, my God, you did it.
- [75:16]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [75:17]
Joe Rogan
I don't know. I don't know what happened, but apparently these people that I know believe that the husband chopped this lady up.
- [75:26]
Marcus King
Oh, really?
- [75:26]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, they think he did it. They're fighting a lot. And
- [75:31]
Marcus King
I remember when I was a kid, my sister used to. And like, Shane's actually got a really funny bit about how diabolical older sisters are. And just my sister used to say, I hope you go to jail for something you didn't do.
- [75:44]
Joe Rogan
Whoa.
- [75:45]
Marcus King
I hope you get wrongfully convicted for something and you're in jail forever. Jesus Christ. That's a terrible thing to say to somebody.
- [75:51]
Joe Rogan
What did you do to her to make her say that to you?
- [75:54]
Marcus King
Who fucking knows?
- [75:57]
Joe Rogan
That's so dark. I hope you go to jail for something you didn't do. Is so evil. Wow.
- [76:04]
Marcus King
We're very close now.
- [76:05]
Joe Rogan
Are you?
- [76:05]
Marcus King
Oh, yeah.
- [76:06]
Joe Rogan
Well, she was a kid. How old was she when she did that? When she said that?
- [76:10]
Marcus King
She's two years older than me, so she must have been like nine or ten.
- [76:13]
Joe Rogan
Oh, but people say things.
- [76:16]
Marcus King
Kid stuff.
- [76:16]
Joe Rogan
They're nine or ten. They're just being kids.
- [76:19]
Marcus King
Yep.
- [76:19]
Joe Rogan
That's a diabolical mind, though. Like, that's how you want someone to suffer. You want someone to emotionally suffer for something they didn't do forever.
- [76:27]
Marcus King
Her and a neighbor boy. It was a vacant house across from mine, and they like locked me in the back fence. And my sister was like, this is where you live now. They were like, unless you break that window. And I was like, I don't want to break the window. And like, sure enough, like, they said, well, we're not letting you out of this gate. And I probably could have waited it out, but I was like five or six. So I just said, all right. So I took a brick to the window and they're like, well, we're gonna go tell on you now.
- [76:55]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [76:56]
Marcus King
Really up.
- [76:57]
Joe Rogan
What the does she do now?
- [76:59]
Marcus King
My sister is actually. She's a badass, man. She's. She drives for the Department of Transportation. She's got her cdl. She's a hoss.
- [77:09]
Joe Rogan
Sounds like she has some devious thoughts in her mind.
- [77:12]
Marcus King
She's.
- [77:13]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, sounds like she should write books.
- [77:15]
Marcus King
I know. She's so smart.
- [77:17]
Joe Rogan
That sounds very creative.
- [77:18]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [77:18]
Joe Rogan
You know, like she's manipulating a five year old into breaking a window so she could tell on him.
- [77:23]
Marcus King
But as a seven year old. Yeah, no, she's. She's awesome. But actually I had a good friend I told that story to and she loved it so much, she got me a welcome map from my house that said, this is where you live now.
- [77:41]
Joe Rogan
That's fucked up, man. Where did she learn that kind of behavior?
- [77:45]
Marcus King
Probably my mom.
- [77:46]
Joe Rogan
Oh, was your mom like that?
- [77:48]
Marcus King
My mom was pretty wild. Yeah.
- [77:50]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [77:53]
Marcus King
Yep. I had an interesting upbringing.
- [77:57]
Joe Rogan
Most artists do. Especially most interesting artists. I don't know a lot of interesting artists that say, like, my childhood was perfect. It was amazing. There was so much love and everybody was really supportive and understanding. Yeah, we talked a lot about stuff.
- [78:13]
Marcus King
Yep. Spoke about our feelings mostly around the dinner table.
- [78:17]
Joe Rogan
No, there's. There's always some sort of element of psychological torture invol
- [78:23]
Marcus King
or some kind of abandonment or some kind of sometime uncle, whatever it is.
- [78:28]
Joe Rogan
Yep. Something ignoring you.
- [78:30]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [78:31]
Joe Rogan
Just not making you a priority. Making you not feel special or making you feel like you're a burden. Something. Something that causes you to like, want exorbitant amounts of attention from strangers. Sure, yeah.
- [78:43]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [78:45]
Joe Rogan
But look, that's where the great stuff comes from, which is really wild. Like, there's this concept that you cannot have good without evil. And I think there's something to that. I think it's just part of the human condition. For whatever reason, you. You don't appreciate good unless if you experience bad. Which is why rich kids are. You grow up rich with everything you've ever wanted. There's no struggle. It's so difficult for those people to ever be exceptional because they don't have the motivation. They don't have that. They haven't experienced the bad. Not in that way. Like, I remember I went on a hunting trip with my friend Steve Rinella and Brian Callan. We went to Alaska and it rained every day. It rained like six days in a row. We're soaking wet. And we came back to la and it was sunny and I was driving my car and I had to call my friend Steve. And I said, dude, I am. Have never been happier. The sun hits my face. I'm so appreciative. I'm so. And I've never felt like this. Like, it's always like this in la, but it never meant anything to me. It was just, yep, another day in la. Gotta go to work. But this one day, I was like, just filled with gratitude. And I was so happy. The sun on my face felt so good and warm and. And I realized, like, oh, you have to suffer in Order to really appreciate the good. Like, if it's just all good, you're not gonna appreciate it. You don't. You need evil people so that you really appreciate the people that are beautiful and that you love. You need people that suck, so you appreciate people that are kind. You know, you need people that are mean so you appreciate the ones that are nice.
- [80:34]
Marcus King
Yeah. Just people that are on the level. Just people that are like, no agenda, just. Just kind people. And it is that duality that kind of gives you perspective. That's what I meditate on every day, is perspective.
- [80:48]
Joe Rogan
That's why I wonder about the music business and then even the comedy business. I think kind of any business. I'm sure it's the same with the music. Rather a movie making business as well. It's like you almost need these rotten vampire cunts that are. You know what I mean? It's like so you.
- [81:05]
Marcus King
Not a punk band,
- [81:09]
Joe Rogan
but so that, like, when you see fellow musicians that you love, like, you give them a hug, like you embrace each other, like, oh, we're cool. Like, you know what I mean? It's like we're together now. It's all right. We're okay.
- [81:20]
Marcus King
It's trauma bonding.
- [81:21]
Jamie
Yeah.
- [81:21]
Joe Rogan
We're away from the cunts. We're away from the vampire cunts.
- [81:25]
Marcus King
It's like my boy, Charlie Crockett, you know, Charlie always says, like, you can do what they do, but they can't do what you do.
- [81:32]
Jamie
You.
- [81:33]
Joe Rogan
Charlie's great.
- [81:34]
Marcus King
He's a man.
- [81:35]
Joe Rogan
Interesting dude, too. Very interesting dude. Very, you know, interesting life. Like the life that that guy had and playing street music for so long, then finally getting discovered very, like again. But that's how you get a person like that. When you talked about his childhood, how up it was and crazy, he was basically just on his own from the time he was a teenager, just running around, just singing songs.
- [82:03]
Marcus King
Yep.
- [82:03]
Joe Rogan
You know, like, that's how you get a person like that.
- [82:08]
Marcus King
Yeah. You can't create a Charlie Crockett in a lab. No.
- [82:11]
Joe Rogan
Or a Jelly Roll. You don't. You don't create those in a lab. They got to go to jail first. You know what I mean? But it's like. I mean, Jelly's like one of the most beautiful people I've ever met in my life. He's the one of the nicest, sweetest, kindest, warm, affectionate people. Everybody hugs everybody, tells everybody he loves them and he means it. And. Because he's been through hell, you know, and that's. That's how you make a person like,
- [82:37]
Marcus King
that Jelly's in, like, a constant state of, like. Like when you run into somebody after they've had an ayahuasca experience.
- [82:47]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [82:47]
Marcus King
He has this constant, like, gratitude.
- [82:51]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [82:51]
Marcus King
That I feel like, kind of fades even with people who have, like, ayahuasca journeys or experiences.
- [82:57]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [82:57]
Marcus King
You know, he's just. I don't know. There's something really pure to that.
- [83:03]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. He's maintained it. And especially now that he's on this, like, health journey, I think that sometimes the momentum of life takes over and you kind of forget those beautiful moments. You. You're grounded in these moments where you realize, like, God, I'm so lucky to have. Have a beautiful family that I love and friends that I love and be able to do what I do for a living. God, I'm so lucky. And that feeling, like, sometimes it goes away because you're dealing with this and that and contracts. And then the New York Times wrote a hit piece on you. Oh. And you forget. You just. You lose your perspective. But I almost feel like you need all those other shitty elements to just reinforce the good elements, that there's this constant sort of mechanism that's going on where there's this constant process of pros and cons, of negatives and positives, and they're duking it out to see who rise. And the more the negative comes at you, the more it has this creative desire inside of you to excel with your music or your art or whatever it is that you do, to just push past it. I mean, think about some of the great songs that people have written on, just about the struggles that they've gone through, just even in the music business, you know?
- [84:23]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [84:23]
Joe Rogan
Like Leonard Skinner working for mca, you know, there's a lot of those songs like that. Or it's just, like, people just want to tell you what the. They've been through.
- [84:32]
Marcus King
Yeah. La Chic, Freak Out.
- [84:37]
Joe Rogan
What's that about?
- [84:38]
Marcus King
They weren't, like, they weren't allowed to get into Studio 54. They wouldn't let them in. And the song was originally written as you. You know, you.
- [84:51]
Joe Rogan
Oh, really?
- [84:52]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [84:52]
Joe Rogan
They went instead, it's Freak Out.
- [84:54]
Marcus King
Yeah. And that ended up being a major hit. Yeah.
- [84:57]
Joe Rogan
That was because they couldn't get into a club.
- [84:59]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [84:59]
Joe Rogan
That's pretty crazy.
- [85:01]
Marcus King
Pretty crazy.
- [85:02]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [85:02]
Marcus King
Yep. But it is just about threading that needle of, like, wanting more for yourself but for the right reasons. That's something that I think about every day. It's just like having a virtuous reason to want more, you know, not just for the sake of having it or for hoarding wealth or anything like that. It's like I want to work to where I can get to a place where, you know, my wife and I can have our own bus and raise kids on the road, you know, but you can't do that unless you have a certain profit margin on the road, you know. So I'm always kind of trying to think of like virtuous causes to want more, you know, because in reality, you know, I should be grateful for everything that I do have. But also speaking of that, you know, and trying to meditate on the things that I'm grateful for every day.
- [85:53]
Joe Rogan
That's a good perspective. I think people get trapped in working towards a result instead of thinking about the process.
- [86:03]
Marcus King
Right.
- [86:04]
Joe Rogan
I try to be process oriented. I try to like think about whatever I'm doing, just try to be better at it and do a better job at it. And I think the other stuff sort of takes care of itself if you have the right people. And that's where the evil vampires come in because they'll steal all that goodwill. Like if you leave the door open like on that TV show on from. You let them in.
- [86:29]
Marcus King
Yep.
- [86:29]
Joe Rogan
They'll fucking tear you apart.
- [86:31]
Marcus King
I'll tear you up.
- [86:32]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, just.
- [86:34]
Marcus King
And it's hard because you don't want to become jaded.
- [86:37]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [86:37]
Marcus King
You don't want to become like. I feel like I meet a lot of people out there who like, they're open and they're kind but they, they're not interested in making any new friends, you know?
- [86:48]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [86:48]
Marcus King
It's like they have their circle and on one hand I kind of understand that. I get that, you know, but. But it's hard. You gotta maintain a certain level of perspective not to become angry.
- [87:02]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, yeah, it's hard. And it's hard to know who you can let into your circle too. You gotta give people a stress test, you know what I mean? It's almost like you have to give them a baggie and then have a fake cop grab em and say, where'd you get Marcus?
- [87:21]
Marcus King
King gave it to me.
- [87:23]
Joe Rogan
Oh, gotcha bitch.
- [87:27]
Marcus King
I ran into this guy recently and basically what happened was like I was on jam cruise years ago and I was super fucked up and I was supposed to sit in with this band called Naughty professor from New Orleans. And they're like, that's a great name. They're so good and they're just outrageously talented musicians. And I had gone out on an adventure that morning on a catamaran. I didn't know what the fuck a catamaran was? I didn't know if it was land, air or sea vessel, right? So we go out there, turns out it's a boat, and we go, like, snorkeling in the Cayman Islands, and we're just, like, looking at all the fish. And like, my girlfriend at the time and a bass player friend of mine from a band called Lettuce, his name's Jesus. So out there with my girlfriend at
- [88:13]
Joe Rogan
the time, and Jesus name is Jesus? Yeah, not Jesus.
- [88:16]
Marcus King
Well, his name's Eric, but he goes by Jesus.
- [88:18]
Joe Rogan
Oh, boy. Eric. Oh, boy. How did Eric get in your circle?
- [88:23]
Marcus King
I don't think it's a messiah complex or anything. I think it's just a nickname that stuck. But they were tripping on acid, and I was drunk on rum and beer and just out there waiting. And, like, when we came up for air, the boat or we had drifted quite a ways from the boat and, like, we couldn't get their attention. And, like, the waves started crashing and, like, a storm started rolling in. Oh, waves. And like, you know, I'm not the strongest swimmer, you know, but we were. We were basically, you know, we were treading water out there for, like, 40
- [88:56]
Joe Rogan
minutes and like, holy shit, dude.
- [88:58]
Marcus King
You know, we were. We were gonna drown. And finally the dude jumped off the boat and came out there, and then he was, like, yelling at me because I didn't have flippers on out there with just my shorts on and some goggles. And he signaled for the boat to come around and they pulled us up out of the water. So after that, we were celebrating our life, you know. So I got completely hammered. And then I was on the boat and I was like, well, I need a pick me up, you know, because I gotta sit in with these guys and they're like, college educated, like jazz musicians. So this guy comes over, he's like, hey, man, you need a Jatuski? I was like, yeah, hook me up. And he pulled out a spoon and he digs it down in the bag, And I go to take it, and it's like a small little mountain. I was like, give me a little more. And he gave me some more and big snort. My whole face went numb. I was like. And it stung. I was like, whoa, what the fuck was that? And he was like, oh, dude, just a little blow. I was like, no, it wasn't. And like, he said, yeah, it was. And I grabbed him by the shirt and I said, what the fuck did you give me, motherfucker? And he looked at his buddy like, well, I just had him, you know, like this. And he said, hey, what bag did you give me, bro? And he was like, the blue one. He's like, oh, no. He looked at me and I was like, what was it? He's like, it's ketamine. So I went totally the wrong direction. But I ran into that guy at the Grand Ole Opry. He came into my dressroom and was like, hey, remember me? Wrong bag. I was like, yeah, I remember you.
- [90:37]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, I don't like you.
- [90:40]
Marcus King
Yeah, you kind of put me in a weird spot.
- [90:43]
Joe Rogan
What was that like taking ketamine after you almost died?
- [90:46]
Marcus King
Man, it was heavy. You know, I basically, like, from what I recall, like, I became part of the boat. That's how I remember it. Like, my feet were like in the deck, you know, and like, I was moving the whole boat with every step that I took. That's what I remember.
- [91:11]
Joe Rogan
Whoa.
- [91:11]
Marcus King
Yeah. But there was this one guy that kept trying to get me to come play a festival in, like, New Mexico. And I kind of put him off the whole week. And then he ran into me and, like, I just remember his eyes getting big, like saucers. I don't know what I said to him, but it was some crazy
- [91:31]
Joe Rogan
or.
- [91:31]
Marcus King
It wasn't English at all.
- [91:33]
Joe Rogan
Probably ketamine talk. Ketamine's a weird one, man, because there's a lot of people that are doing that right now for therapy.
- [91:42]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [91:42]
Joe Rogan
Like Neil Brennan, a comedian, co creator of the Chappelle Show. He was the first person to tell me about it because Neil's had depression problems most of his life. And we were in LA and he said, we're in the hallway of the Comedy Store. He goes, I've been doing ketamine therapy for depression. And I go, how's that working out? Is it good? He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I didn't know what to expect. He goes, I thought, oh, you know, it's in a doctor's office. It's probably going to be just. I'm probably just gonna close my eyes and I'll feel. He goes, no. He goes, it's a full blown trip. He goes, tripping balls in a doctor's office is strange. I bet he said it worked, though, for a little while. Like, he's done a bunch of different things. He did a ton of ayahuasca. He's done a bunch of ketamine. He did, like, magnets on his brain. I think he's doing, like, a bunch of different things that try to, like, rewire the way his brain works. Yeah, like, whatever it is, that's a.
- [92:42]
Marcus King
That's a journey I'm on. You know, I'm on antidepressants, and I want to get off them.
- [92:48]
Joe Rogan
Which ones are you on?
- [92:50]
Marcus King
I'm on Cymbalta.
- [92:51]
Joe Rogan
What does that one do? Well, is it an ssri?
- [92:55]
Marcus King
Yeah. So basically just kind of a. It's for a chemical imbalance, you know, but, like, the best work that I did to combat my depression and anxiety and stuff was. Was microdosing, you know. Mushrooms?
- [93:11]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [93:11]
Marcus King
Like, that's. That's the most progress that I'd seen in my life. And I'm gonna figure out some kind of strategy because, you know, like, being on antidepressants and them telling you, like, well, don't just stop taking them all at once. Or, you know, you could have seizures and shit. I'm like, I don't like that. I don't want to be, like, you know, enslaved by a drug, by a pharmaceutical drug, you know?
- [93:40]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, I'm.
- [93:41]
Marcus King
And it's like, also, like, now you just take this the rest of your life. It's like, what's the end result here?
- [93:48]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Theo Vaughn's going through the exact same thing. And last time he was on the podcast, he was explaining it to me, and it freaks me out because I know Theo has had conversations before, like, even publicly. He had a Netflix taping, and it didn't go well. It was like they actually never. They shelved it. They never used it. You know, there was all these stories from people that were there saying he bombed. I think he just had a. Kind of a breakdown. And then he was talking to the crowd, and there's a video of it. We said, you know, the people were shaking. Hey, we still love you. Thank you. Look, I'm just. I'm trying not to take my own life. That's what I'm trying to do right now. And, like, you hear stuff like that, and you just go like, oh, Jesus Christ. I've known too many people that I didn't think were going to kill themselves and then did. And then he goes down these spirals where he starts talking about world events and freaking out. I'm like, oh, Jesus Christ. Like, I gotta help this dude. And so I send him things about people getting off of them. And apparently there's some doctors that specialize in getting people off of them. But here's the thing about that chemical imbalance thing. That's not real. They. They used to think that that was what these things do, that they treated a chemical imbalance. But then recently, Studies have shown that there. That is not what they do. They don't exactly know what they do, and they kind of numb you in some sort of a way. That helps some people. And I've had some friends, and I don't. You know, I don't want to make any blanket statements because I had some friends that were suicidal. Ari is one of them. And he got on SSRIs, and it helped him. He got on. He tried a bunch of different ones, found one that worked, got on track, and then his career started taking off. And then as his career started taking off, he started feeling much better. He was on a good, positive path in his life. And then he slowly weaned himself off of those, and now he's off of them. So I think that might have saved his life. I also know other people that have been on their. On those things and taken their own lives. So I don't know, because that's part of. One of the side effects is suicidal ideation. It's one of the side effects. But see if you could find anything about the chemical imbalance not being true. The chemical imbalance reason for taking SSRIs. It's. They. They've measured, like, levels of dopamine and serotonin. And people that take. It's not. That's not what it's doing. And they don't even exactly know why it works. And it's a huge business. That's part of the problem. And it's also part of the problem. These doctors are incentivized to prescribe people these things. I had a friend that went to a psychiatrist and was talking about their life and things not doing well. And immediately, immediately the doctor tried to prescribe him SSRIs. Right away, like, right away, here's something that you're never going to get off. I'm gonna give it to you right away, first meeting. And he was like, well, I don't mean shouldn't I, like, try exercise? Shouldn't I try a diet? Shouldn't I try just drinking water? And, you know, like, I read something about, like, magnesium and red light therapy being far more effective than even ssri. There is no good evidence for the simple chemical imbalance like low serotonin that directly causes depression or automatically means someone should take an SSRI. But SSRIs do change brain chemistry in ways that can help some people. But. So for decades, depression was popularly explained as a serotonin imbalance in the brain. Large reviews of the research have not found convincing evidence that people with depression Have. Have consistently low serotonin or a specific measurable imbalance that explains their symptoms. Experts now describe the chemical imbalance story as an oversimplified or outdated way of explaining a much more complex condition. And here's the other thing about depression. It has to be connected to the state of your life. Like, if you have a terrible job, you're in a bad relationship, you have abusive parents, you know, and you live in a shitty neighborhood.
- [98:06]
Marcus King
Why.
- [98:07]
Joe Rogan
Why would you be happy? Oh, I'm depressed. Oh, you need a pill, do you? Is that what you need?
- [98:12]
Marcus King
Right.
- [98:13]
Joe Rogan
Well, it's quite possible that you're eating processed foods and you have all these other things that we talked about. Shitty life, shitty house, shitty job, shitty neighborhood, shitty parents. Maybe you just need to make your life positive, like, figure out a way to get your life in a positive direction. They've shown that exercise is way more effective than antidepressants at actually helping people with depression. Just exercise. Just fucking go on a nice long walk every day. Do some cardio, you know, take a fucking yoga class. That's way better for people than these goddamn pills. But these doctors are financially incentivized to prescribe these things, and they prescribe them and hand them out like candy. And again, I think for some people, it helps them.
- [98:58]
Marcus King
And. And that's the issue, right? I mean, if it wasn't a financial incentive, I think it would be like, take these for six months. You'll be better, you know?
- [99:07]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [99:08]
Marcus King
It wouldn't be, like, forever. This is you now.
- [99:10]
Joe Rogan
Even six months, it's like, okay, how long does it take to get off them?
- [99:14]
Marcus King
Right?
- [99:15]
Joe Rogan
Because I know a guy who was on them, and it took him a year and a half after he got off of them before he felt normal again. For a year and a half, he was fucked up because he was on him for. I think he said he was on him for 10 years, and then for a year and a half, he got off of him, and it just took that long before he finally, like, balanced the ship out, like, whatever waves he had to go through for a year and a half, but he was like, whatever I'm doing, I am not going back on those goddamn pills. So he wrote it out and came out on the other end.
- [99:50]
Marcus King
It's fucked up, too, because it's. It's hard to compare your experience to other people because everybody's brain chemistry is different.
- [99:56]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [99:57]
Marcus King
So you. You could have two people on the same medication, like you were, you know, saying earlier. Like, it's hard to even quantify, like, I even talked to my own sister or, like, other family members about, you know, their depression and their, you know, mental health journeys. And it's just. It's interesting to think, like, you could say, like, it's hard to disprove it, you know what I mean? Because somebody could be doing well on it. But it's also, like, it takes two weeks for it to really get into your system. And I had to try, like, three or four different ones before one really, I felt. Felt like me. You know, like, even at my grandmother's funeral, like, I just felt nothing. I just felt numb. And, like, I didn't notice it until I got into a situation where I was like, this woman raised me, and I can't feel anything.
- [100:50]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [100:51]
Marcus King
It wasn't until, like, a heavy moment like that that I was able to kind of have that perspective of, like, I should be feeling something right now. So I put those down, and then it's like, two weeks later was having dinner with somebody, and, like, this song came on that just brought all of it up. There was this melody, this Wayne Shorter melody that just uncorked everything, and I was just sobbing at the dinner table.
- [101:20]
Joe Rogan
Wow. What did you feel like before you took them, and what was wrong with the ones that you didn't stick with?
- [101:33]
Marcus King
Well, I don't know if it was a matter of, like, maybe the dosage was too high, and it was just kind of creating a block because, like, you got to feel some emotions, right?
- [101:44]
Joe Rogan
So how did you feel before you were taking them? Like, what was bothering you that you realized you needed to take something?
- [101:50]
Marcus King
Well, I think a lot of it had to do with just, like, substance abuse. But I was feeling really anxious and really suicidal and just really, really depressed, you know, and just this overwhelming sense of dread every day and just also just a lot of helplessness, like, just trying to go into different doctors and just, like, trying to figure out, like, what the fuck is it that's gonna finally, you know, take this away? But also realizing, like, I rely on that a little bit, you know, for what I do for a living, you know, so there's kind of that, you
- [102:32]
Joe Rogan
know, rely on the feelings, like, the pain.
- [102:35]
Marcus King
Yeah, all that, you know, for writing and for creating.
- [102:39]
Joe Rogan
God, that's a fucking conundrum, ain't it?
- [102:41]
Marcus King
Yeah. Being fearful that it's gonna take your drive away because you don't have anything to create for no substance. So it's a. It is a strange battle. It's one that I still kind of deal with, but I'm just in A much better spot on the journey.
- [102:59]
Joe Rogan
So which ones did you try? And what was wrong with the ones that you tried? They just numbed you up.
- [103:06]
Marcus King
This was like six years ago, so like 2020. I can't remember the name of the specific medication. I'm sure I have a. An old bottle of it somewhere in my house. But yeah, I don't know, I just.
- [103:24]
Joe Rogan
What did it do? It just made you too numb?
- [103:26]
Marcus King
Just made me feel numb.
- [103:27]
Joe Rogan
And then when you found one that worked, what did that do differently?
- [103:31]
Marcus King
So the one that I'm on now, I mean, like, if I go a day without it, like, I. Like the withdrawal symptoms are like fairly severe. Just like headaches and just like complete like body tingling sensations and just like it's really scary stuff. It's just, you know, so I'm gonna have to wean off of it slowly over time, like Ari did.
- [103:57]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, I wonder if ibogaine would help with that.
- [104:02]
Marcus King
Well, I mean, you know, it's like I was saying, like microdosing mushrooms was like the first thing that I actually felt. Some kind of lasting result. Now, like when I get an anxiety attack or something, I can recognize it as something just coming from an outside force, you know, an energy that's not aligning with me. And I can recognize it, I can work through it. Where like before I would just get a little overwhelmed, you know, But I think also just like not drinking and like having to socialize with people and having to have a little exposure therapy to like social interactions and life in general without just masking myself with drugs and alcohol has helped a lot too in that growth.
- [104:48]
Joe Rogan
So when you first started taking it, you. There's all the stuff that you're doing in terms of like abusing alcohol and substances and that. Which definitely causes you to feel like. And it definitely causes a lot of people to have like all sorts of angst and anxiety. And just with you, this stuff alleviated that,
- [105:15]
Marcus King
what I'm on now? Yeah, I mean, you know, it has kind of. And I'm afraid of like, you know, if I get off of it, are those emotions going to come flooding back in? You know?
- [105:28]
Joe Rogan
So did it stop? Those emotions, it. This is all, by the way, while you were drinking, right? You're not drinking and how long has it been since you've drank?
- [105:36]
Marcus King
Like a year and a half.
- [105:37]
Joe Rogan
Okay.
- [105:38]
Marcus King
But I mean, those. Those emotions do come back every now
- [105:41]
Joe Rogan
and again, even while you're on the stuff. Yeah, but it significantly curbed them.
- [105:50]
Marcus King
But it's like, you know, at what price? I mean, I was talking to my boy Earnest, about it because, you know, he's kind of a kindred spirit. And, like, you know, just talking about, like, I'll be working out and, like, getting after it, feeling good, listening to the Stones or whatever. And, like, I noticed, like, in my gym, at my house, like, I guess they used to have a punching bag hanging up there. And just like, you see something like that, and you just take a mental note of, like, that probably hold my weight, you know, it's just like these.
- [106:23]
Joe Rogan
Oh, you mean to hang yourself?
- [106:25]
Marcus King
Yeah. Like, these thoughts just kind of come, you know, as. I don't know where they come from. They just. They just pop in, and as quick as they come, they go.
- [106:37]
Joe Rogan
And this is before you taking the medication?
- [106:39]
Marcus King
No, I mean, this is now a month ago, you know.
- [106:42]
Joe Rogan
Okay. Did. Did you have those thoughts before the medication?
- [106:45]
Marcus King
Oh, yeah.
- [106:46]
Joe Rogan
Okay, so they're still there.
- [106:48]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [106:48]
Joe Rogan
So whatever it's doing, it's doing a little bit. It's.
- [106:52]
Marcus King
I mean, it's got to be helping to a degree.
- [106:54]
Joe Rogan
Do you think it is?
- [106:55]
Marcus King
I think so, but I think it's. It's really just about, like, your will and, like, your mental. Just your ability. Just like we were talking about, like, with diets and stuff, you know, like, does Ozempic help curb, you know, appetites? But you could also just exercise and just have willpower, and I think mental health can be of a similar thing.
- [107:18]
Joe Rogan
One of the things that people are finding about Ozempic is it actually curbs your desire to be in love, too. Ugh. Yeah.
- [107:25]
Marcus King
That's a nasty thought.
- [107:27]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. You don't enjoy anything.
- [107:30]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [107:31]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [107:31]
Marcus King
What I'm Hearing about these SSRIs is like. Like, genitalia, like, paralyzed or.
- [107:40]
Joe Rogan
I saw that. Yeah, I saw that on Twitter. Some lady was talking about her.
- [107:44]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [107:44]
Joe Rogan
She got off of it, and her clitoris is numb. She can't have orgasms anymore.
- [107:47]
Marcus King
That's up.
- [107:50]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [107:51]
Marcus King
If that ever happens. It's like, you know.
- [107:55]
Joe Rogan
Well, the problem is I don't know if it comes back. So you can't wait for it to happen and, like, which medications cause it to happen.
- [108:01]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [108:03]
Joe Rogan
If you do get off of it. Have you talked to your doctor? Like, what is the protocol?
- [108:10]
Marcus King
Well, weaning off of it. My doctor always just says, like, I don't know. He just. Every time I talk to my doctor, it's like, every few months, we check in, and he's like, well, how you feeling? You know, how you doing? I'm like, well, I'm okay, you know? Just kind of feels like the same. Kind of want to get off of him. And he's like, well, you know, if you want to do that, like, you're gonna have to go slowly over time, but, you know, are things good? And I'm like, yeah, things are fine. He's like, well, you don't really want to change things if they're good. Right. You know, that kind of thing.
- [108:51]
Joe Rogan
And you worry what.
- [108:53]
Marcus King
And I worry about what's gonna happen
- [108:54]
Joe Rogan
if I, you know, what's that gonna be like, getting off of them? Because the thing about it is, like, I was talking about this guy that was on him for 10 years. Like, that. That year and a half was rough, where he was experiencing all sorts of problems because his body was just kind of in shock that it'd be on. Had been on SSRIs for a decade. And then all of a sudden, he's off of him and he's like. Like the way Theo described it is like the floor was missing. Like the floor fell out from under him.
- [109:25]
Marcus King
Getting off him.
- [109:26]
Joe Rogan
He got off him for a while and then got back on him. He got off him about a year ago for a little while and then got back on him. But he wants to get off him. He just doesn't know what to do.
- [109:36]
Marcus King
And I mean, hell, it's like. It's. It's like a. It's literally a plot device. You know, like the show, the Ozarks, you know, like the crazy brother. He's pouring his medication down the drain.
- [109:49]
Joe Rogan
Yep.
- [109:49]
Marcus King
And he goes fucking nuts. You know, it's like somebody being off their medication is kind of a pejorative term, right?
- [109:57]
Jamie
Yeah.
- [109:57]
Marcus King
But I'm like, I kind of want to get off mine.
- [110:00]
Joe Rogan
Well, it depends on what medication. Right. Some people are schizophrenic.
- [110:04]
Marcus King
Yeah. If it's antipsychosis, I guess.
- [110:06]
Joe Rogan
If you've got psychosis. Do you exercise?
- [110:10]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [110:11]
Joe Rogan
What do you do?
- [110:12]
Marcus King
I usually do 20 minutes on the peloton and then a different muscle group every day.
- [110:17]
Joe Rogan
Oh, that's good. That anything cardio wise is great for depression, supposedly. And even weights. Weights are supposedly really good for anxiety
- [110:26]
Marcus King
for some reason, I've noticed.
- [110:29]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, there's a.
- [110:30]
Marcus King
There's a real definitive difference when I'm working out versus when I'm. When I'm not.
- [110:34]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, man. So, like, do you have a strategy for when you're thinking about doing this or how you're going to try to do this?
- [110:43]
Marcus King
Well, I was thinking I'd probably do it when I had some time off. But I'm working the rest of the year. But honestly, man, being on the road is kind of my, my constant. So I think it's something that I could probably accomplish while I'm on the road. But I'd hate to have like a breakdown.
- [111:02]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Like, you're in Nashville about to do a show. I gotta cancel the show, right?
- [111:09]
Marcus King
Yeah. So it's, it's hard to determine.
- [111:12]
Joe Rogan
You know, it scares me, man, because. And again, it scares me because doctors incentivize to keep you on them and promote them and get you to do them also. And they've been prescribing them for people they don't want to ever think that they're doing something bad.
- [111:28]
Marcus King
There's a justification process in there somewhere.
- [111:30]
Joe Rogan
100% justification process, financial incentives. There's a lot going on there. And then there's also this position that they're in of expertise where they're explaining to you what you should and shouldn't do and how it works. And when you're like, this is up my whole life and I can't get off them, like, oh, it's just. Why slow down? Like, isn't everything doing well? Just keep, keep on the same path, Marcus. Everything's fine, Marcus. Bye. Click. Got a new patient calling. Oh, hi, Jenner. Do you. Yeah, it's. It's very weird, man. It's very weird that our society is so hyper medicated.
- [112:08]
Marcus King
Yeah. Yeah. And injectables are the, the wave of the future nature. Like, even like, like my boy Chevy that works for me, he's. He used to work in pharmaceutical sales and he's like, everything is injectables now because that's what's hot, because of like the crazy stuff. So like every medication is like pedaling injectables because like the, the wave of like peptides and Ozempic and all that kind of stuff now. It's like, it's trendy, which is interesting to me. That is weird because I grew up with my dad having type 2 diabetes and my grandfather too. And, you know, just seeing them inject like insulin and stuff, I was like, yuck.
- [112:54]
Joe Rogan
Well, type 2 diabetes, the thing about that one is you can cure that.
- [112:58]
Marcus King
Yep.
- [112:59]
Joe Rogan
You just gotta stop eating like a pig, which is crazy. I know a bunch of people that, that have stopped themselves from having type 2 diabetes.
- [113:08]
Jamie
Yeah.
- [113:08]
Marcus King
And that's, that's a goal that I'm on, is preventing myself from ever dealing with that. Yeah, I don't, I don't eat sugar or anything.
- [113:15]
Joe Rogan
Oh, that's awesome.
- [113:15]
Marcus King
Yeah, I gave up sugar.
- [113:17]
Joe Rogan
Well, again, the ketogenic diet is supposed to be good for depression, too. Do you take supplements? Are you taking magnesium and multivitamins and all that jazz?
- [113:27]
Marcus King
Oh, yeah.
- [113:27]
Joe Rogan
That's good. That seems like you're doing a lot of the right things, man.
- [113:31]
Marcus King
Yeah, man, I'm. You know, I just
- [113:36]
Joe Rogan
don't want to be a prisoner to pills.
- [113:38]
Marcus King
Yeah. And I love my wife, and I'm just excited to have some babies and just. I want to get myself, like, her career's taken off, and my career is going really well. And, like.
- [113:49]
Joe Rogan
Does she take SSRIs? No.
- [113:51]
Marcus King
That's good. She's very anti, like, any pharmaceuticals, which I really admire about her.
- [113:56]
Joe Rogan
I was just reading something about SSRIs and the development of children. Children's brains. When women are pregnant and they're on SSRIs, apparently there's a bunch of issues.
- [114:06]
Marcus King
Yeah, I could see that.
- [114:08]
Joe Rogan
I mean, look, man, there's millions of people on those things. There's a giant business, and they want to hide all the side effects and hide all the negative aspects of it and hide the impact that it does just to the overall psyche of the nation. When you've got. Okay, let's just take a guess. How many people do you think in this country are on SSRI with liberal women? It's like, 80%. It is. The other 20% need them. Like, what's the percentage of people on SSRIs in America? Let's guess, man.
- [114:44]
Marcus King
I.
- [114:45]
Joe Rogan
30.
- [114:45]
Marcus King
I would say, like, I would go even higher. I'd say, like, 60 to 75.
- [114:50]
Jamie
Really?
- [114:51]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [114:52]
Joe Rogan
60, 75% of the country.
- [114:54]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [114:55]
Joe Rogan
Wow. I don't think it's that. I think it's under 30.
- [114:59]
Marcus King
It's too many.
- [115:00]
Joe Rogan
It's too many. Yeah, it's definitely too many. But there's also a bunch of people that are looking for a quick fix. When there's a bunch of factors to why you don't feel happy. Like we were talking about before, there's lifestyle, life choices, situation that is beyond your control. Like, where you're born, where you live, the job that you have, where you. You know, if you're in a place of limited opportunity and you got a bunch of shitty people around you and life sucks every day, it's hard to be happy. It's hard to not feel depressed. So then there's the question of, like, how does one develop the tools to get out of that situation and get somewhere else? And for a lot of people, it's something that helps them break out, whether it's starting a business or being a musician or an artist or something that gets you out of there, and then you start getting around more positive people and then you make more positive lifestyle choices. But you just can't expect to be happy if your life is shit.
- [115:53]
Marcus King
Right?
- [115:55]
Joe Rogan
13%. Okay. I was way off American SSRI prescribing, but I bet in your business that's why you think of it, because. Yeah, with artists, I bet it's a lot higher. 13% of US adults report taking an antidepressant in any given 30 day period. SSRI is the most frequently used class within that group. Yeah. Okay, so 13%. So that's 2015 to 2018, though.
- [116:24]
Jamie
I asked for an update for 2020.
- [116:25]
Joe Rogan
It said it's about the same for 2026.
- [116:28]
Jamie
I mean, yes, I asked, is there any updates in 2020? And it basically said the same.
- [116:32]
Joe Rogan
So about 13%. Still a lot. One out of 10 people on crazy pills is a lot.
- [116:39]
Marcus King
Yeah. In. In the arts community, though.
- [116:43]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [116:43]
Marcus King
Like within the artist community. The last data that I remember reading was like 70% of like, artists struggle with some faction of mental health. But I.
- [116:56]
Joe Rogan
That makes sense.
- [116:57]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [116:58]
Joe Rogan
And then there's also the newest element that targets your mental health and goes after it, which is social media. Yeah, that's a rough one.
- [117:08]
Marcus King
Boy.
- [117:08]
Joe Rogan
That's a rough one. And so many people treat that as if it's no big deal. Like you're shooting heroin into your eyeballs every day with that stuff. Yeah, man, not good. So many people are in there.
- [117:20]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [117:20]
Joe Rogan
All day, every day. And then reading a bunch of negative about them and getting angry and upset and then carrying that weight around with them all day.
- [117:31]
Marcus King
It's easy to say, like, don't read comments, but. But it's easier said than done.
- [117:35]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [117:35]
Marcus King
You know?
- [117:36]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Especially if you have it on your phone. That's the thing. Like, you gotta not have it on your phone. If you have it on your phone, you're gonna go to it. But then the problem is if you use it for touring and for posting information, keeping your fans engaged. Yeah.
- [117:51]
Marcus King
Well, the algorithm also serves you. Like, you gotta engage anytime you talk to a social media group. They're like, what are your engagement levels? Like, like, so they want you on the app, using it, like commenting, responding to people. Because if you don't and you choose not to do that, and they're like, well, can we go on there for you and like, respond to comments or whatever, and I'm like, no, I don't want you punching in any. So I'm like, I want to be on there and be myself. And, like, if this is a tool that I have to have, I want it to be me, like, authentically. But, you know, it's a necessary evil.
- [118:27]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. But it. It ruins so many people's brains.
- [118:31]
Marcus King
It rots you.
- [118:32]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it really does. And it's also. You're absorbing so much negativity just from what's going on in the world. Like, on any given day, if I open up Twitter and I just start reading what people are upset about, it's just like, oh, my God, the whole world is falling apart. Everyone's mad at everything and everyone. And every little whatever, social issue, political issue, world issue, economic issue, everyone's blaming everyone, and everyone's pissed. And then there's so many grifters and psychopaths that are just on there all day using it, stirring up, and, man, I know it's.
- [119:16]
Marcus King
Yeah. You think I could use the bathroom?
- [119:19]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, we can use the bathroom.
- [119:20]
Marcus King
We'll get into this. Yeah, we got a lot to say about.
- [119:22]
Joe Rogan
We're gonna pee, folks. We'll be right back. And we're back, ladies and gentlemen. Where were we? Depression. Everything sucks. Stay off social media.
- [119:29]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [119:30]
Joe Rogan
Let's talk about music.
- [119:31]
Marcus King
Let's talk about some music.
- [119:32]
Joe Rogan
Damn. That's how. How does it take so long?
- [119:35]
Marcus King
You seen that James Brown interview from which 80s? When he's got those big glasses.
- [119:40]
Joe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- [119:41]
Marcus King
I want to talk about some music.
- [119:44]
Joe Rogan
That interview is amazing.
- [119:45]
Marcus King
It's the best.
- [119:46]
Joe Rogan
When he had just got arrested.
- [119:49]
Marcus King
I'm out on love, yeah.
- [119:51]
Joe Rogan
Aren't you out on bail? I'm out on love, yeah.
- [119:55]
Marcus King
And he starts talking to the women in the thing. He's like, why is that, ladies?
- [119:59]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. No, it's hilarious. Clearly high as fuck.
- [120:03]
Jamie
Yeah.
- [120:04]
Marcus King
Something going on there.
- [120:05]
Joe Rogan
James Brown was an original. When you first started doing music, how old were you?
- [120:10]
Marcus King
You, man, I was probably like 2 or 3 years old when I really. Yeah.
- [120:17]
Joe Rogan
That's crazy.
- [120:19]
Marcus King
My grandfather played my uncles. My dad still plays, you know.
- [120:25]
Joe Rogan
Wow. So were they professional or they just did it for fun?
- [120:29]
Marcus King
My grandfather, so he was a career serviceman. He was in the Air Force, and he was a staff master sergeant, and he played honky tonks on the weekend. He was in charge of booking all the NCO clubs on the base. So he would book, like, Charlie Pride or Johnny Cash, Barbara Mandrell and his band would open up and then back them up.
- [120:51]
Joe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- [120:53]
Marcus King
So he was a country and western purist.
- [120:55]
Joe Rogan
Did you get to go to any of Those shows when you were young?
- [120:58]
Marcus King
No. Well, so this was. This was back in the 60s. My dad's 73, I think now. He was born in 53, and I was born when my dad was, like, 43.
- [121:12]
Joe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- [121:13]
Marcus King
So by the time I came along, everybody was. You know, a lot of my family traded in, like, I think they associated music with a lot of the secular lifestyle. So they kind of. When they all got born again and into the church, that's around the time I came around, you know, so the music was really associated with church, but I was really interested in that other stuff.
- [121:40]
Joe Rogan
Isn't that interesting? I wonder why there's a division.
- [121:44]
Marcus King
You know, I think about it a lot. I think that's the closest you can get to divinity. You know, is music really allowing yourself to get that close to something and the conviction that you feel in a church, you know, that's a good, common thing for everybody to get on the same level.
- [122:10]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, that's part of the church experience. And everybody having it together, experiencing it together as a group, Being together live in a room with a great musician on stage, when everyone's enjoying it together is very much a transcendent experience. Yeah, it really is.
- [122:26]
Marcus King
Drinking the Kool Aid, man.
- [122:28]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. It's like there's a beautiful moment. You're all experiencing it together, and you're all clapping and cheering or you're all dancing and singing along. It's a beautiful moment.
- [122:37]
Marcus King
It really is.
- [122:38]
Joe Rogan
Music is like a drug, man. It really is. It's like a beautiful drug. Like the right song. When you're on the treadmill, you're like, yeah, you could just keep going, you know?
- [122:49]
Marcus King
Tear a door off the hinges.
- [122:51]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [122:51]
Marcus King
If I hear, like, Little Feet, Skin it Back.
- [122:53]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah. There's certain songs that just give you energy, man.
- [123:00]
Marcus King
We're like by the Rolling Stones.
- [123:02]
Joe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- [123:03]
Marcus King
That song, if I Need To Pick Me up in the Morning, that song
- [123:05]
Joe Rogan
comes on a great weightlifting one, is Prison Sex by Tool.
- [123:10]
Marcus King
Oh, yeah.
- [123:11]
Joe Rogan
Oh, you know that song.
- [123:12]
Marcus King
Tool's a band that I never really delved into, but I know Danny Carey, and I know them because of my buddy Brent Hines. Did you ever listen to Mastodon? No, man. I gotta send you some. Some choice cuts, but.
- [123:27]
Joe Rogan
Okay.
- [123:28]
Marcus King
Brent was. He was the man. He just died back in September. I took him on the road right before that, which was.
- [123:37]
Joe Rogan
Oh, really?
- [123:38]
Marcus King
Which was messy.
- [123:39]
Joe Rogan
Oh, really?
- [123:41]
Marcus King
Brent, he and Mastodon kind of had a mutual agreement that he would leave the band. So he was doing his solo thing. And, like, he's one of my Heroes, you know? And I was like, I'll take you out. Sure. And, like, he just threw it together somehow. And then I ended up having to kick him off the tour, which, like, broke my heart. But he kind of forced my hand the night in question. Like, I walked outside and he had this little tour manager named Angela, and she was crying, and my. My tour manager was holding her and she was crying. I was like, fucking a. What happened now? She said, I walk into the dressing room and Brent pee on the floor. And I said, no, no, you have to stop. So this. He pee in his mouth.
- [124:33]
Joe Rogan
Oh, Jesus Christ.
- [124:35]
Marcus King
And, like, I know. So I just have to picture my boy just, like, pissing. And she's like, yep, stop. And then he's like, oh, this is
- [124:44]
Joe Rogan
in his own mouth.
- [124:45]
Marcus King
And like, at his funeral, I told. I told Matt pike from asleep, I told him that story, and he was like, yeah, like, and normal. He's like, it's a party trick.
- [124:57]
Joe Rogan
That's a Wednesday move.
- [124:58]
Marcus King
And I was like, yeah, no, it's hilarious. But it really offended her and she got very upset and the whole thing just fell apart. And, you know that.
- [125:07]
Joe Rogan
That was the last straw.
- [125:08]
Marcus King
That was.
- [125:09]
Joe Rogan
Pissing in his own mouth.
- [125:10]
Marcus King
That was what did it really. But, you know, get him some paper
- [125:14]
Joe Rogan
towels and fix this.
- [125:15]
Marcus King
I was ready to fix it, but, like, his whole band and crew, they were like, it's not working.
- [125:21]
Joe Rogan
So what was he doing?
- [125:23]
Marcus King
He was just. Just partying a little too much, you know? And I mean. I mean, I really. I love that dude. Like, brother, you know, I miss him. Miss him a lot.
- [125:36]
Joe Rogan
Sometimes it takes a really wild, crazy, off the rails person to make music or make any kind of art that just moves you, drives you crazy.
- [125:45]
Marcus King
Yeah. I mean, he was a true artist, you know, like, he was insane. Yeah. You gotta have friends that your wife doesn't particularly love you hanging out with. Right. You know, there's something about that friend.
- [125:59]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. That's a lot of my friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But those are the ones that make the magic. Yeah, there's something to it. And again, that it is a magic thing. The. The. You know, and this is coming from someone with no music. I have no talent. And so for me, like, watching it and experiencing it is a pure experience because I'm not like, oh, I don't like how he played that chord. I don't like how. I don't know anything about music. I just know I love it.
- [126:30]
Marcus King
I mean, Rick Rubin, you know, he's held on to that. He. He wants to be, you Know, and I think he has been like the, you know, the voice of, like, the consumer. He. He hears what the consumer wants to
- [126:46]
Joe Rogan
hear, and, well, he knows what he likes.
- [126:49]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [126:50]
Joe Rogan
And he's got a very interesting mind. You know, He's a very interesting person to talk to. His perspective on things is very unique. I like him a lot. Really like him a lot. I like talking to him a lot. He sends you the wildest text messages. He sent me some conspiracies that are often. Sometimes I have to say, hey, that's not real. But every now and then, all of a sudden, he's. And some ones that make you question reality.
- [127:22]
Marcus King
I like the thought of you talking Rick off of a ledge.
- [127:26]
Joe Rogan
Not necessarily talk him off a ledge. Just letting them know that some of the. You know, it's hard to know what's real, what's not real out there in the world if you're not, like, deep into the bowels of conspiracy theory movement.
- [127:38]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [127:39]
Joe Rogan
You know.
- [127:39]
Marcus King
Right.
- [127:40]
Joe Rogan
But again, a guy like Rick, like, his sensibility, like, he. He has a. It's like a very valuable position. Person just with a unique mind that is just helping shape how music gets produced and created and. Because, like, whatever. Whatever it takes. Whatever it. I mean, it's not a science, like a math thing or a. It's not carpentry. Like, you have to level this and square that. Like. No, man. There's like, some weirdness, and there's. There's love in there and hate in there, and there's. There's. There's a lot of stuff that is intangible. It's hard to describe, like, why this is better, why this is good. But when you hear it, you know, when you know. You know, you know, there's sun rifts, you know, there's some riffs that just like, oh, my God. Like the beginning of Voodoo Child, Slight return.
- [128:35]
Marcus King
Come on.
- [128:35]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Come on.
- [128:36]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [128:37]
Joe Rogan
Just the beginning. You hear it, you go, oh, yeah.
- [128:39]
Marcus King
Yeah, dude.
- [128:40]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [128:41]
Marcus King
I mean, Dan Auerbach's another one who's just.
- [128:44]
Joe Rogan
Oh, yeah, I love those.
- [128:45]
Marcus King
Perfected the riff.
- [128:47]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [128:47]
Marcus King
Josh Homme.
- [128:49]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [128:49]
Marcus King
Stone age.
- [128:50]
Joe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- [128:53]
Marcus King
You know, Rick's a funny one, man. I love his philosophy on music, too. He just. He looks at it the same way that Colonel Bruce Hampton looked at it. Colonel Bruce Hampton and Richard both believed that music is like pro wrestling, you know?
- [129:07]
Joe Rogan
Is Colonel Bruce Hampton the Colonel from Elvis? Different Colonel. Who's Colonel Bruce Hampton?
- [129:12]
Marcus King
Colonel Bruce Hampton. He was kind of like, so Billy Bob Thornton put him in a movie. In Sling Blade, he Was. I can't remember his name in the film, but, yeah, Colonel Bruce Hampton. There he is. He died on stage at the Fox Theater.
- [129:27]
Joe Rogan
Wow. In Detroit?
- [129:29]
Marcus King
No, in Atlanta.
- [129:30]
Joe Rogan
Oh, okay.
- [129:32]
Marcus King
His story is he was born with two birth certificates. He was just a wild man. He was just. He was all about, like. Instead of instruction, he called it out, struction. And, like, Billy Bob worked on a documentary about him in, like, 2003, and he was just like. His whole philosophy on music and just, like, why we do it, and just pointing out the hilarity of, like. Like, the business and, like, the coffee getters, as he referred to them. You know, we have a whole industry built around coffee getters now. You know, all the people that got the suits, their lattes and stuff in the morning, now they're calling the shots. And that's a. That's a weird place to be. But the Colonel Bruce Hampton, I. You know, I just. What I do now is I just buy copies of his documentary, Basically Frightened, and I just give it to people who aren't hip to the knowledge. So I'll send a copy down here.
- [130:29]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's called Frightened.
- [130:30]
Marcus King
It's called basically Frightened.
- [130:31]
Joe Rogan
Basically Frightened.
- [130:32]
Marcus King
Colonel Bruce Hampton story. Yeah.
- [130:33]
Joe Rogan
Is it available anywhere? Like, is it on Apple or Amazon or.
- [130:38]
Marcus King
It's not streaming anywhere.
- [130:39]
Joe Rogan
No.
- [130:39]
Marcus King
So I just. I just collect the DVDs when I can find them.
- [130:43]
Joe Rogan
Oh, wow. Is it. Can you buy a DVD anywhere? Like, if people are listening to this and they want to get a hold of it?
- [130:48]
Marcus King
Yeah. Like ebay.
- [130:50]
Joe Rogan
That's the only way.
- [130:51]
Marcus King
That's. That's the only place I found them. Really?
- [130:53]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [130:54]
Marcus King
And you'll be bidding against me buying copies of it? I. Yeah. Every time I give one away, I buy another copy.
- [131:01]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [131:04]
Marcus King
Yep.
- [131:05]
Jamie
I found a thread on Reddit, people looking for it, and someone's like, just mail me the DVD and I'll copy it for you. Like, can't find it anywhere.
- [131:13]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [131:14]
Marcus King
It would be cool if it. It were to be streamed somewhere. It's a fascinating story
- [131:21]
Jamie
on Amazon, but I don't know that.
- [131:22]
Joe Rogan
Whoa.
- [131:23]
Jamie
That's gonna be even real.
- [131:24]
Joe Rogan
Right. They might just send you a brick.
- [131:27]
Marcus King
But he. He was somebody like, you know, Widespread Panic, that was like their guru, you know, really? Colonel Bruce Hampton, Jimmy Herring, you know, Ottil Burbridge, who I'm in a band with now. You know, he started with Bruce. Really?
- [131:46]
Joe Rogan
I've never heard of him before.
- [131:47]
Marcus King
You know, it's just. He's one of those guys that, you know, he was like, to the Southeast. He Was like our Frank Zappa, you know, like our son Ra.
- [131:56]
Joe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- [131:57]
Marcus King
He's just all about just the outrageousness. And, you know, I have a lot of friends who spend a lot more time with him than I did, but, like, he was one of the first people that. That took notice to what I was doing when I was, like, 15, you know? And then I remember, like, being in Germany and finding out that he'd passed away on stage, which he predicted he did. Really? Yeah. He said that's how he was gonna go.
- [132:25]
Joe Rogan
Well, if you keep performing long enough. Carlin died in a hotel room on the road.
- [132:33]
Marcus King
Really?
- [132:33]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [132:33]
Jamie
I'm gonna have to download this for you real quick.
- [132:35]
Marcus King
Oh, there you go.
- [132:36]
Jamie
It's unlisted on YouTube.
- [132:38]
Marcus King
Oh, perfect.
- [132:38]
Jamie
I won't be there tomorrow, though, after
- [132:41]
Joe Rogan
this episode gets released. Yeah. Can you download it?
- [132:44]
Jamie
I can try it.
- [132:45]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, yeah.
- [132:47]
Jamie
Downloads it too. I'll figure it out, though.
- [132:48]
Joe Rogan
Okay. Jamie to the rescue. Sorry, folks. If you're getting this, you might be
- [132:54]
Jamie
able to find still. I found.
- [132:55]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, maybe. Good luck. Somebody can upload it on one of the mother social media platforms. That's cool. I'm interested in checking it out. I love music for inspiration. You know, it's. It's one of the unique art forms that it inspires you to create, inspires you to go do things. You know, whenever I see a live band or a live performer, I can't wait to go do something. I want to go write. I want to go perform. I want to like Paul. Paul Mooney, who's a great comedian. Do you know who Paul Mooney is? Yeah, he used to write for Richard Pryor. He was one of the real OGs back in the early days. When I came to the Comedy Store, I was kind of blown. It was one of the guys I was always nervous around being around until he liked me. So, like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, Paul Mooney hates you. You're. But he gave me that advice once early on. He said, if you want to entertain people, he said, go be entertained. He goes, you want to entertain, honey? Go be entertained, homie. Go see some other. He goes, go see something that gets you. Go see a great movie. Go see a band. Go see something. Be entertained.
- [134:07]
Marcus King
That's what. That's what my process is like in the studio, man. Like, this last record we did, like, we had a projector, and we'd play, like, you know, Giant with James Dean, or we played, like, Easy Rider, Big Lebowski, or, like, films that, like, inspired us, films that we, like really gravitated towards. And I. All the while, you know, waking up in the morning and reading east of Eden and just, like, some of these great architects of Americana and just, like, being inspired on every turn. Watching live concert footage of bands that we love. Marshall Tucker, Band, Skynyrd, whatever the case. Just inundating yourself with inspiring stuff, you
- [134:49]
Joe Rogan
know, just something to get the juices flowing, to summon the muse. Something to.
- [134:56]
Marcus King
Sometimes we would play just the footage of, like, a Midnight Cowboy or something, and we would record, you know, in the mindset, like we were trying to score this film, you know.
- [135:07]
Joe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- [135:08]
Marcus King
Just to kind of get a different approach.
- [135:11]
Joe Rogan
I forgot about Midnight Cowboy. What a wild movie.
- [135:14]
Marcus King
It's a good one. Yeah.
- [135:15]
Joe Rogan
That was back when Times Square was dirty.
- [135:18]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [135:18]
Joe Rogan
Now Times Squares is one big Applebee's.
- [135:21]
Marcus King
That's when people would go and watch pornography together in a theater. Yeah.
- [135:26]
Joe Rogan
Not only that, but it was a thing in the early days of pornography where couples would go out and, like, Johnny Carson went to see Deep Throat.
- [135:38]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [135:38]
Joe Rogan
There's, like, famous people went to see the film Deep Throat in the theater.
- [135:44]
Marcus King
Yep. What was adult entertainment?
- [135:48]
Joe Rogan
But how weird is that, that pornography, like, there was always stag films. Right. Like, that was the thing that they used to make. Like, in the early days of movies, they would film people having sex, and you could watch it, like, at a stag party, which was like a bachelor party.
- [136:04]
Marcus King
Right.
- [136:04]
Joe Rogan
But then people tried to make films, like, artistic films that had people having sex in them, which is really interesting that we. We find that abhorrent. Like, people don't like that in today's society. We don't mind, like, this. This show from that I was telling you about, bro. The violence is horrific, the gore, and the violence is crazy. That's okay. Just don't suck someone's dick. Don't make them come. That's terrible. Do you remember the movie Bad Bunny? No, not Bad Bunny. Was that Brown Bunny? Brown Bunny. Do you remember the movie Brown Bunny? Brown Bunny was a Vincent Gallo movie that he made. And there was a real sex scene in there. Like, we're like. How do you say that lady's name? Chloe? I don't know how you say her name. She's a really good actress. And she blows him, like, for real in the movie. Like, it's a real scene and the movie's a real movie. But then when it came to the sex part, they actually did it, and people were horrified.
- [137:13]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [137:14]
Joe Rogan
I mean, it's so weird. Like, if it was violence, like, if it was a scene where she beat him to death with a baseball bat. People would be like, wow, what a crazy movie.
- [137:24]
Marcus King
Right?
- [137:25]
Joe Rogan
But it was seen where she blows him. People like, this is outrageous.
- [137:28]
Marcus King
Outrageous.
- [137:29]
Joe Rogan
And I think that movie ruined Vincent Gallo's career.
- [137:33]
Marcus King
Really? Yeah.
- [137:34]
Joe Rogan
Because Vincent Gallo had been in a bunch of movies. He's a really weird guy. Like, a very interesting guy. And after that, he kind of dipped away from Hollywood. Like, he kind of vanished in a lot of ways. And that was the big thing. I remember reading these articles on how outraged people were that they had actually seen real sex in a movie. Like, it's so strange that we don't mind violence. Like, once upon a time in Hollywood, Brad Pitt takes a lady's head and bashes it into a mantle piece and brains her. Fine. No. No outrage. No. Everyone. Everyone okay. Everyone's okay. But if he. Her.
- [138:13]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [138:13]
Joe Rogan
Like, actually pulled her pants down, you see Brad Pitt's penis and her vagina, you're like, this is crazy. Something that we all do.
- [138:20]
Marcus King
Yeah. But the simulation of it is fine, too, right?
- [138:23]
Joe Rogan
Simulation of it is fine. Yeah. Like, it was a sex scene, and you just see his hips and her face, like, oh, and they're kissing. Fine. Lines. Don't see actual sex. Even if it was, like, him and his wife. Like, if he made a movie with him and his wife and they decided to have actual sex in the movie, people would be like, this is disgusting. Get this smut off the screen. But if they had a movie with him and his wife and she shoots him, like, okay, that's fine. Didn't really happen, Right. Weird, right?
- [138:54]
Marcus King
It is weird. I mean, hell, I did a commercial for, like, I did a. A shoot for this car, and, like, they couldn't have me in the car while it was moving for insurance purposes, so they had to, like, make it seem like I was in the car while it was moving.
- [139:11]
Joe Rogan
Insurance purposes. That's crazy. But that's more of a financial thing. Yeah, but the. The weirdness about sex. The point is, like, see if you can find that footage of all the people that were in line. There's, like, an old. There's a YouTube video of an old news report of people in line to see Deep Throat.
- [139:38]
Marcus King
Right.
- [139:38]
Joe Rogan
And again, Johnny Carson was one of them. I think they even interviewed him after the film. Like, they. They went and watched people fuck and, like, it was a movie. Like, you know, you're watching the Joker or something, Right? Very odd.
- [139:53]
Marcus King
It is odd. And they got that name, Deep Throat from the Watergate.
- [139:58]
Joe Rogan
Did they?
- [139:59]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [140:00]
Joe Rogan
I thought Deep Throat was Afterwards, I thought. I thought the Watergate thing was after. I don't know.
- [140:09]
Marcus King
I could be wrong. Chicken or the egg.
- [140:12]
Joe Rogan
Okay, so Watergate was what, 70, 74, was it? Oh, yeah. So the movie came out first.
- [140:20]
Marcus King
Okay.
- [140:21]
Joe Rogan
And so that was after this. So that's interesting, too. And you think about, like, 72 was not that long ago. And people's ideas of pornography were very different.
- [140:31]
Marcus King
But back then, a lot of my favorite venues in the country were porno theaters.
- [140:36]
Joe Rogan
First Comedy Mothership, bro.
- [140:38]
Marcus King
All right. Yeah.
- [140:39]
Joe Rogan
Was a porno theater at one point in time.
- [140:41]
Marcus King
And, like, people cared about, like, the quality of, like, the. The audio production in those films. And, like, you know, and these rooms sound really good. Variety Playhouse in Atlanta.
- [140:51]
Joe Rogan
It's one of the best scenes in American Werewolf in London.
- [140:54]
Marcus King
Okay.
- [140:55]
Joe Rogan
Do you remember that movie? American Werewolf in London? It's a great movie. One of the best scenes. They're in the middle of London and they're in an adult movie theater. And these people are watching pornography. They're watching a smut film. And while these people are. He turns into a werewolf and kills everybody.
- [141:14]
Marcus King
I gotta check that out. Oh, it's great.
- [141:16]
Joe Rogan
One of the greatest movies of all time. That wolf that we have in the lobby, that's a recreation.
- [141:20]
Marcus King
Oh, really?
- [141:21]
Joe Rogan
Of the American Werewolf.
- [141:23]
Marcus King
Okay.
- [141:23]
Joe Rogan
That's what that is.
- [141:24]
Jamie
The thing with Johnny Carson and Deep Throat, I think is like a conglomeration memory.
- [141:29]
Joe Rogan
Is it?
- [141:29]
Jamie
There's a. There's a weird. There is a photo of people waiting in line to see the movie, but it's like, this is it on the screen.
- [141:39]
Joe Rogan
Mm. But there was a video of Johnny
- [141:43]
Jamie
Carson talking about it after the fact during his monologue, that he went to see it.
- [141:48]
Joe Rogan
Oh, so there wasn't a photo or a video of him at the movie theater?
- [141:52]
Jamie
I don't think so, man. I'm looking for it. I sort of remember what you're talking about. I think, remember, we might have read an article that listed all of this stuff together.
- [142:00]
Marcus King
What was that play where they had, like, everybody was, like, naked and it was, like, really a big deal. Was it like hairspray or something like that?
- [142:11]
Joe Rogan
I don't know.
- [142:12]
Marcus King
In the late 70s, my dad told me him and his friends went to go see this, like, Broadway production or off Broadway production where, like, everybody was, like, nude. And it was like this really. You know, it was like this really racy thing.
- [142:27]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [142:28]
Marcus King
And there was a preacher up front just, like, really just giving them hell, man. And then he got up closer and he realized it was his uncle. My great uncle was up there. Just.
- [142:40]
Joe Rogan
Motherfucker, that's hilarious. Widely cited overview. Many works are quoted. Note that several mainstream celebrities appear to have seen Deep Throat, including Martin Scorsese, Brian De Palma, Truman Capote, Jack Nicholson, Johnny Carson, Spiro Agnew, Frank Sinatra and others. Barbara Walters later mentioned seeing it in her memoir. These references are usually brief, but they're pulled into many articles about the film's cultural impact. But that's what's so interesting. It's like that is not, not normal in today's society to even think that a bunch of people would say they went to go see a porn film.
- [143:16]
Jamie
I think this, this is also. So Midnight Cowboy, which is where you guys started this. 1969, which is before this, and won best picture as the first x rated or NC17 movie. So there started a little bit of a trend then.
- [143:31]
Joe Rogan
Interesting.
- [143:32]
Jamie
It's only three years later, you know.
- [143:34]
Joe Rogan
So why was Midnight Cowboy X rated?
- [143:37]
Jamie
The reason?
- [143:38]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, like what was. What was so explicit that they had to make it an X?
- [143:44]
Jamie
I would say a little bit has to do with marketing, but I don't know if there's a reason. I'll see if this is a reason.
- [143:51]
Joe Rogan
Marketing.
- [143:51]
Jamie
Yeah. I'd make people want to go see it.
- [143:53]
Joe Rogan
Right. I guess. Oh, this is crazy. This movie's crazy.
- [143:58]
Jamie
Standing out here, right here, after consulting with a psychologist, they told to give it a next homosexual frame reference and its possible influence on youngsters.
- [144:13]
Joe Rogan
Wow, that's crazy. Today that would be celebrated, right?
- [144:17]
Jamie
Oh, there's a rape scene. I haven't seen this movie.
- [144:20]
Joe Rogan
I, I saw it in like the 80s. I haven't seen it in forever.
- [144:25]
Marcus King
Yeah, but even, I mean, like, in that film, it's like, it's like a, a distant thought that John Voight's character keeps going back to like, the rape scene. Whereas, like, when was the last time you saw it? A couple months ago, probably.
- [144:40]
Joe Rogan
Oh, really?
- [144:40]
Marcus King
But like, the Deliverance just plays on amc on tv.
- [144:46]
Joe Rogan
Right? Right. Which is another rape scene.
- [144:48]
Marcus King
Nothing's edited out.
- [144:50]
Joe Rogan
Squeal like a pig.
- [144:52]
Marcus King
That one fucked me up when I was a kid. I'm not gonna lie.
- [144:55]
Joe Rogan
Oh, yeah, very much so.
- [144:56]
Marcus King
Not to mention it, like, supposedly took place like, in the Appalachian, like, backdrop, which is like, where I grew up. And I was like, that's happening, like
- [145:05]
Joe Rogan
here because of then shocking sexual content. Even more importantly, it's frank portrayal of homosexuality and hustling. Hustling meaning having gay sex for money, which the studio and Sensor saw as potentially corrupting to young viewers. The film includes scenes and References to male prostitution, homosexual encounters, and brief but explicit situations, including implied oral sex and nudity, which went far beyond what Hollywood had shown in a mainstream drama up to that point.
- [145:37]
Jamie
Maybe now it would get just an R, but yeah, that would be. With this never existing.
- [145:42]
Joe Rogan
So now it'd be celebrated. It's. It's a film celebrating sex workers. Yeah, it's weird. It's weird. What was. But it's also weird that there was a movie that was an actual porn movie that a bunch of people just went to see and talked about. Like today people want to pretend they don't even watch porn. Meanwhile, I think, last check we did. I know we've done this before, Jamie. Like, what percentage of the Internet is pornography? Internet traffic? Take a guess at that. I bet it's way more than SSRIs, right? Don't you think?
- [146:18]
Marcus King
Yeah, I haven't. I haven't guessed right so far. So let's see. 50.
- [146:25]
Joe Rogan
Oh, wow. I don't think it's that high. I would. I would say 30.
- [146:29]
Marcus King
Okay.
- [146:29]
Joe Rogan
I'd say 30 of the Internet, but I could be wrong. I don't remember. 30 of the Internet traffic is pornography. Let's say that maybe it's 40.
- [146:38]
Jamie
Also saying that's a myth.
- [146:40]
Joe Rogan
It's a myth.
- [146:41]
Jamie
I don't. I mean, I haven't read through this yet.
- [146:43]
Joe Rogan
That's a bunch of people lying about jerking off.
- [146:45]
Jamie
30 to 40 things in a myth, apparently.
- [146:48]
Joe Rogan
Okay. Porn makes up a small share of sites. Yeah, yeah, but traffic, that says it. 30 for 40%. Widely stated. But what is the. What about traffic? The amount of Internet searches. Yeah, but. No, but I mean traffic, like the amount of bandwidth.
- [147:07]
Jamie
All right, then it's getting lost in this word because I used.
- [147:09]
Joe Rogan
I used traffic.
- [147:10]
Jamie
No, I use traffic.
- [147:11]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, you did. Why do we see higher numbers? See 37. 37% of the Internet is point porn. BBC reported tracing one of these popular figures back to single content filter company press release. Not an independent audited measurement. Some advocacy. I. I bet now today, because of YouTube and the amount of streaming that goes on with like Instagram and Tick Tock, I bet it probably isn't as high as it used to be. The percentage wise, because there's so much more content that's being streamed now than ever before. Porn related searches are 13 on the web and 20 on mobile devices. That's funny. It's more on mobile devices because people can hide in the toilet. The content filter company.
- [147:56]
Jamie
Okay, the claim comes from this.
- [147:58]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, we read that. We already read that.
- [147:59]
Jamie
Well, I Just said so it could be just made up to begin with.
- [148:01]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, could be. But there's got to be like a number. I don't know, like the Internet traffic.
- [148:06]
Jamie
I don't know how you'd get that number.
- [148:08]
Joe Rogan
So some advocacy or Internet safety groups cite very high traffic shares and storage storage figures. Example, nearly a third of all Internet traffic. But these are rough, sometimes opaque estimates rather than peer reviewed measurements. Okay, so it's at least 4%. So it says roughly websites, 4 to 12%. That's a lot. Just 4 to 12% of the whole Internet is jerk off websites. That's crazy. But the volume in terms of the amount of bandwidth used.
- [148:43]
Marcus King
Right.
- [148:47]
Joe Rogan
But I bet if you went and watched Deep Throat today, it'd probably be
- [148:50]
Marcus King
pretty pedestrian be tamed. Yeah, it probably would seem just like softcore almost.
- [148:56]
Joe Rogan
Right? Yeah. Like one of them showtime late night movies.
- [148:59]
Marcus King
Yeah. I mean it is something that I, you know, I like to save all that, you know, when I get home, off the road, see my wife.
- [149:11]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [149:12]
Marcus King
You know, there's something that it had.
- [149:14]
Joe Rogan
Originally, the woman had an unusual birth defect that came from a doctor who has an unorthodox solution to make the best of her situation. That it?
- [149:23]
Jamie
Is that the deep throat?
- [149:25]
Joe Rogan
Yes, yes. Well, that she could just take it some birth defect. Balls deep downward their chin. That guy Harry Reams, he was like one of the first famous male porn stars. And I think he went on to be a real estate salesman or something. Like if you're one of those people that gets famous.
- [149:44]
Marcus King
Right.
- [149:44]
Joe Rogan
That's. That has got to be a very weak. Yeah.
- [149:46]
Jamie
Is that where the porn mustache comes from? Oh, yeah.
- [149:49]
Joe Rogan
Oh, yeah. He had a crazy stash 1947. Wow. What's he up to these days? Passed away, did he?
- [149:57]
Jamie
Yeah.
- [149:58]
Joe Rogan
When did he pass away? 13. Wow. Didn't live that long. All that wasted all his jizz. I bet he shaved off his mustache and he was just anonymous. Just drift in and out of traffic. Nobody even noticed him, you know?
- [150:13]
Marcus King
Right.
- [150:14]
Joe Rogan
Weird life. Having sex with people on camera.
- [150:16]
Jamie
Should we add that to the wall?
- [150:18]
Joe Rogan
Oh, look at that. When would he get arrested do if
- [150:22]
Jamie
we add it to the wall? Probably indecent something.
- [150:25]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, we should add that to the wall.
- [150:26]
Marcus King
Memphis, you got to be up to some no good to get arrested in Memphis out there.
- [150:31]
Joe Rogan
What did he get arrested for? I'll see if it says something too much.
- [150:34]
Jamie
Dick says his appearance and Deep Throat led to his arrest by FBI agents in Memphis. Conspiracy to distribute obscenity across state lines.
- [150:44]
Joe Rogan
Whoa, whoa.
- [150:47]
Jamie
He called it forum Shop. But I don't.
- [150:49]
Joe Rogan
What does that mean? Forum shopping.
- [150:52]
Jamie
Real term for the practice of litigants taking actions to have their legal case heard in the court they believe is most. Oh to give them a good judgment.
- [151:01]
Joe Rogan
They're trying to find.
- [151:02]
Jamie
They're trying to get him convicted I guess trying to make an example of them. So they found a court that would
- [151:06]
Marcus King
take the case like for obscenity.
- [151:08]
Jamie
Yeah. Miller versus California Reams is granted a new trial. Charges were dropped in August.
- [151:16]
Joe Rogan
Wow. So they just.
- [151:17]
Jamie
Defense argues the first act I'd ever be prosecuted by the federal government for appearing in a film.
- [151:21]
Marcus King
It's like the Lenny Bruce is slinging dick.
- [151:24]
Jamie
And then all these people got behind
- [151:27]
Joe Rogan
very Shirley McLean, Warren Beatty, Richard Dreyfus. They all got behind him. Jack Nicholson, Ben Gazara. Wow. Dick Cavett.
- [151:37]
Jamie
He was in Greece. That's the coach.
- [151:39]
Joe Rogan
Wow. He was in the movie Grease, the musical.
- [151:43]
Jamie
What in 1978 out of fear his notoriety would rip. Jeopardize the film's block. He was replaced. Okay.
- [151:50]
Joe Rogan
Oh he was cast and he was replaced by Sid Caesar. That's hilarious. Wow. After an eight year in 1982, after an eight year hiatus from porn, Reams returned to the industry and performed in the film society affairs and reportedly received a six figure salary.
- [152:09]
Jamie
How weird back then.
- [152:11]
Joe Rogan
Weird it is it the, the whole pornography thing is very strange because like people want to watch other people have sex because people like having sex but it's like.
- [152:24]
Marcus King
But you can't talk about it.
- [152:25]
Joe Rogan
But you know if you say you like it people like is wrong with you and then they watch it.
- [152:30]
Marcus King
But if we could destigmatize it and like not give people unrealistic ideas of what happens in the. In the bedroom and, and noted as something that is entertainment. You know, I think it's entertainment.
- [152:43]
Joe Rogan
The fear is that the women that are in it they for the rest of their life they're always going to be thought of a certain way. And the men skate, they don't really have a like this. They're thought of cd but they don't thought as like you know, girls that got used to. Well I think what's gonna get weird is AI porn because then you can watch porn and there's no victims. Right. There's no person you feel bad for. Like oh that poor girl. Everyone's gonna know that she sucked dick on camera. She took it in the ass on camera. It was not a real person. So then maybe you can watch that and
- [153:21]
Marcus King
remove any kind of victim. Yeah.
- [153:23]
Joe Rogan
I don't know. People Are weird.
- [153:25]
Marcus King
People are weird.
- [153:27]
Joe Rogan
I'll tell you one thing I've never tried and I'm not going to. I don't want it. Nope, not gonna do it. Is VR porn. Because Duncan told me, dude, have you ever seen VR porn? It's fucking amazing. Like, not gonna do it. I'm not gonna sit there with fucking goggles on. Jack it off.
- [153:44]
Marcus King
Joe hasn't left his house in about six months.
- [153:47]
Joe Rogan
I mean, you imagine you're watching porn and the people are fucking 20ft high in front of you that they're bagging. And if you can move around in it, like you can move around another VR, like you can get like really close to watch the dick go in there. Like
- [154:02]
Marcus King
that's one thing I haven't tried either.
- [154:04]
Joe Rogan
VR porn, good for you. Stay away. VR in general is weird. You know what's really great though, is VR games. Have you ever done any VR games? You know what sandbox is? You ever heard of sandbox? Sandbox. They have one in Austin. They had one in wooden Woodland Hills, right down the street from our old studio in la. And it is a. A place where you go. It's like a big ass warehouse. And you go to these rooms in the warehouse and they have fans set up and it's all like these, these walls, like it's all boundaries. They put a haptic feedback vest on you and goggles and they give you rifles and the plastic rifles. And then you get dropped into this virtual reality world where you fight zombies. Oh, it's dope, dude. It's nuts. When the zombies attack you, they run at you, they claw you, you see blood splatter in front of your eyes and you gun them down. It's crazy. There's a. There's one called Deadwood Mansion. That's my favorite. And the Deadwood, man. There's a couple different Deadwood games. I think there's two or three. Three now I think there's three. I think there's three. There's three zombie games that you could play. Three different ones. No, it's here.
- [155:17]
Marcus King
Here.
- [155:18]
Joe Rogan
They have one in Austin. Yeah, it's out at the Domain. Yeah, it's out of the Domain. It's so fun. My family hates it because they get like sick. And I wanted. That's all I ever want to do. So on Father's Day, I make everybody shoot zombies with me. Like it's Father's Day. What do you want to do? Shoot zombies? Like, no, like, come on, we have to do it. Yeah, it's. Once you do it it's fun.
- [155:43]
Marcus King
Father's Day's coming up. Joe tournament.
- [155:46]
Joe Rogan
Okay. At one point in time, I had the number three score in the country at killing zombies. Yeah, I went ham. One day. One day. I was just locked the in. And the key is I'm going to give you guys a. A pro tip. If you're doing Deadwood Mansion, get the shotgun. The shotgun is overpowered. The shotgun kills more things than anything else. It's way better at it. But the game is not nuts, man. I mean, there's. There's zombie rats that come running at you. There's people that are attached to the walls and they. They shoot down their tongue and wrap it around your neck and they're pulling on you. Show them a clip of it. It's crazy. Is a. It is. It's really fun, dude. You'll. You'll love it.
- [156:29]
Marcus King
I'm gonna take the band to do that.
- [156:31]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, that's what you could do. You could do it. Like six people.
- [156:34]
Marcus King
He's going there for like band activities.
- [156:37]
Joe Rogan
Is a good one. I bet they have multiple. I know, I know. I only know of these two of Austin and la.
- [156:44]
Jamie
The one I pulled up is in Atlanta.
- [156:45]
Joe Rogan
Oh, there's one in Atlanta. Yeah. They have to have them all over the place. I don't know. I have no idea why it's not everywhere because it's so fun. It's one of the most fun things you could do with your friends. We've done it. My wife and I've done it on double dates. Like, you go do that and then you go have dinner there. It's great, man. It's great. It's really fun.
- [157:05]
Jamie
They got a ton of locations now.
- [157:07]
Joe Rogan
Oh, they're all over the place now. Yeah, that's great. See if you can find a video of Deadwood Mansion. Oh, Deadwood Phobia. Oh, that's the newest one. That's the third one. Oh, there's a Squid Games one. We've done that one too. The Stranger Things one. They have so many different. Deadwood Valley. That's another one that's really good. The Deadwood Valley one. Do they have a. Yeah, here we go. So check this out. So this is what happens. You get dropped off into this city and the zombies are there. And so this is. This is you. It's like it's cut between you with the guns and then like, this is what you see. This is what it looks like. So. But this is more like a video, like showing you what it looks like on the outside. But when you're in it. Wish they would show you what it looks like. That's what it looks like when you're in it. Wow. And these dudes are chasing after you're gunning them down. It's really fun. But again there's a bunch of games that you can do that survive the horrors. You gotta save the heroes. There's, there's people there that you have to save and there's other people that you have to kill. It's dope. It's really fun.
- [158:25]
Marcus King
That's badass.
- [158:26]
Joe Rogan
So that's a good use of VR. Don't be looking at 10 foot vaginas. Look at Go go kill fake zombies. You get stuck on a train and as a train's running down the tracks, they're jumping onto the train and trying to get you. You have to gun them down. It's really fun.
- [158:41]
Marcus King
That seems like something like I could get into. I never played any video games growing up.
- [158:46]
Joe Rogan
Up? Really? That's crazy. How old are you?
- [158:50]
Marcus King
30?
- [158:50]
Joe Rogan
How's that possible?
- [158:51]
Marcus King
I mean I just, I never had much interest in them like when I was young. I don't know.
- [158:59]
Joe Rogan
Do your friends play video games
- [159:02]
Marcus King
by the rest of the band? They all play, you know, and you
- [159:06]
Joe Rogan
just say no, not interested.
- [159:07]
Marcus King
I was just never really into it, man.
- [159:09]
Joe Rogan
Well, this is different than a regular video game. Like this is very physical. Like you're running around, you're in a room that's bigger than this room and you have your haptic feedback. You also have fans that blow air at you, you know, like, see like if it's also to cool you off too because it gets hot as and you're running around, you got this vest on and when you get grabbed, the vest vibrates. So you feel it like oh, that's sick. Oh yeah, it's really fun. But it's probably good that you never got into video games because they're so time intensive. They. They rob you of your life. You think golf robs you of your life? You don't have to leave the house to play video games. Like look at Jamie over there.
- [159:43]
Jamie
There.
- [159:44]
Joe Rogan
How often do you play video games, Jamie?
- [159:45]
Jamie
No, not that often.
- [159:46]
Joe Rogan
No? No. I thought you were a junkie.
- [159:48]
Jamie
I actually haven't played in weeks.
- [159:50]
Joe Rogan
Oo maybe. But you were hooked for a while, right?
- [159:54]
Jamie
It's a fun as I'm thinking in my head, I'm like, I grew up playing video games but I also wish I was sick at guitar. So there's a trade off there. And most people I know who are sick of Guitar aren't good at video games or play them. So.
- [160:08]
Joe Rogan
That's a very good point.
- [160:10]
Marcus King
I did make. Made an effort like a year or two ago. I got a PS5 and I got Red Dead Redemption. I was like, I'm gonna fucking do it. I'm gonna play this game. And I just got. I was like, I feel like I'm just doing chores. And I asked my drummer. He's like, yeah, that's pretty much what it is.
- [160:27]
Joe Rogan
Oh, Red Dead Redemption. Yeah, you gotta play something like a first person shooter. You know, play like Quake or something like that. Like, what's. What's the big first person shooter that the kids played today? Jamie.
- [160:38]
Jamie
I mean, Fortnite. Really?
- [160:39]
Joe Rogan
Fortnite. Fortnite is still. Fortnight's been around forever. When my kids were in, like, grade school, Fortnite was big.
- [160:47]
Jamie
Yep. And they just made some weird. I don't. I stopped paying attention. But like, Star wars is now in Fortnite. And the games that they made for Star wars are just like. Nope, it's just in this thing now. You just play it in here.
- [160:59]
Marcus King
Wow.
- [160:59]
Joe Rogan
Really?
- [161:00]
Jamie
Yeah. And it's like they download stormtroopers and lightsabers.
- [161:04]
Joe Rogan
Whoa.
- [161:05]
Marcus King
Yeah. My nephews are always hitting me for. What do they call that? Like, Fortnite Bucks or V bucks.
- [161:12]
Joe Rogan
They want B bucks so they can play more. Yeah. There's Robux. My kids were always into Robux for Roblox, so you could buy things. Roblox. But apparently now there's like pedophiles have been gotten into Roblox. They try to message people.
- [161:27]
Marcus King
They ruin everything.
- [161:28]
Joe Rogan
They do. They do crack creeps, ruin everything. But there's some very fun video games that you shouldn't ever do because it'll. With all the other things you do, like not getting into golf, not getting into video games again. Jamie's dead, Right? That's probably why you're so sick of guitar.
- [161:47]
Jamie
You can make a guitar. Generally, we.
- [161:50]
Joe Rogan
Well, there's other things. Like, there's certain games where you can play guitar. Like Guitar Hero.
- [161:55]
Jamie
That's not the same.
- [161:57]
Joe Rogan
No, no, no. But haven't people learned how to play guitar? An actual guitar? Because of guitar?
- [162:02]
Jamie
There's a game. There's technically a game. It's like a training aid called Rocksmith, which is way. It's. You actually have a guitar and it's plugged into it, not on.
- [162:11]
Marcus King
That's cool guitar.
- [162:12]
Jamie
Here you're just hitting five buttons, just
- [162:14]
Joe Rogan
matching red to red, blue to blue,
- [162:16]
Jamie
and at the timing thing. But as you.
- [162:19]
Joe Rogan
No, transfer it Doesn't. Oh, but it would. I would imagine that a game that would teach you how to play guitar with an actual guitar would be dope. Like if you get like, you know, like these games, like the sandbox game, Deadwood Mansion, they. You get a gun and if you got really good, like Staccato has a VR gun game. Staccato, they make pistols and they. There's a VR gun game and you get a plastic staccato. And when you're playing this game, like you're actually pointing the trigger and when you pull the trigger, there's actually like a muzzle jump. So your reticle actually jumps up and down a little. Your red dot jumps up and down a little bit. That was. That would be exactly like it would do if you actually shot a gun. So they have to like recenter it. Bang, bang, bang. And so you could run around doing things and shoot stuff and shoot targets.
- [163:11]
Marcus King
And that's here too.
- [163:13]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. And you. But that's a game that you can get for like meta VR goggles, like consumer VR goggles. And so you doing that could get better at shooting guns. Because you're shooting a plastic. It doesn't weigh the same, but it's the same shape, the same form. It's a plastic gun. I mean, what they really should do is make one of those things with the weight of an actual steel gun so that you're accustomed to the actual feel of the thing.
- [163:40]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [163:41]
Joe Rogan
And then. God, why can't they do that? They should be able to do that. Maybe I'll talk to them. But if you did that, like, that would be a skill that would actually transfer over. So if they could do that with a guitar, if they could figure out a way to attach like computer sensors to an actual real guitar.
- [164:00]
Jamie
This is Rocksmith. This is. There's levels of it. You can slow it down.
- [164:05]
Joe Rogan
And what are you playing?
- [164:07]
Jamie
Real songs. You pick the song. They're all real songs.
- [164:09]
Joe Rogan
Right, but what is the interface? The guitar. Oh, an actual guitar.
- [164:13]
Jamie
Yeah, it's plugged in with a USB cable to the computer.
- [164:17]
Joe Rogan
Oh, it's their virtual guitar.
- [164:19]
Jamie
No, no, this is just. I showed you what it looks like on the. The game, but.
- [164:24]
Joe Rogan
Right. What is it? But it looks like an actual guitar.
- [164:27]
Jamie
Whatever guitar you want to play. Ah, it's your guitar.
- [164:30]
Marcus King
It's not.
- [164:31]
Jamie
It's not a fake guitar. Guitars are just things that vibrate strings and expel.
- [164:39]
Joe Rogan
Oh, dude, that's dope.
- [164:40]
Jamie
Expel, like digital sound thing.
- [164:42]
Joe Rogan
That's. That is dope. But I think After a while, you'd have to abandon that, Right?
- [164:47]
Jamie
Yeah, he's good at guitar. I mean, they need to learn this.
- [164:51]
Joe Rogan
Did you learn by lessons, or did you just learn by playing?
- [164:55]
Marcus King
So initially, I just learned by just sitting around the house watching cartoons, playing guitar. My grandfather would teach me something. He'd give me, like, a project, basically, or my dad would leave me a record to listen to, and it was just his old record collection. So a lot of Allman Brothers Band, a lot of Skynyrd, Marshall Tucker Band, that kind of thing. And then I would just sit at home all day and just go over it. And then later, when I was in high school, I studied jazz theory with Steve Watson at this. It was like a vocational school for the arts. It was called the Fine Arts center in Greenville, South Carolina. And I'd go there in the afternoons and study jazz theory, which was really beneficial because it's good to put a vocabulary to the things that you kind of knew, but you didn't know how to quite name it. Just kind of learning the vocabulary, learning what things are called, and then expanding upon that, you know?
- [166:03]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [166:04]
Marcus King
Music theory is a. Is a valuable tool.
- [166:06]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Does it. Does it help you in writing songs?
- [166:11]
Marcus King
It can. It helps in, like. Like, in Nashville, they use something called the Nashville number system. So, like, you go into a session and, like, it's all based off of the major scale. So, like, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. And then the 8 is just the octave of the 1. Right. So they'll say, like, we got a 1, 4, 5, you know, and it just represents what the chords are. Yeah.
- [166:40]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [166:41]
Jamie
This is where math and stuff gets really interesting. You go down this rabbit hole forever. You could. You could bring a Terrence Howard back in here, honestly. And then you bring in ancient Egypt. And so this is all vibrations, and you can probably translate hieroglyphs into some of this music theory stuff.
- [167:00]
Joe Rogan
It's fucking weird.
- [167:01]
Marcus King
Terrence Howard trying to find the one.
- [167:03]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [167:03]
Marcus King
Like, in a beat. That's hilarious. But the first time I used the number system was with Auerbach.
- [167:10]
Joe Rogan
Oh, really?
- [167:10]
Marcus King
Yeah. Because Dan, like, his house band for a long time was the remaining members of the Memphis Boys, who played on, like, Son of a Preacher man by Dusty Springfield.
- [167:20]
Joe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- [167:21]
Marcus King
And, like, Suspicious Minds, that kind of thing. Gene Christman was 80 years old playing drums. Bobby Wood, keyboard player Billy Sanford. And his second session in Nashville was Pretty Woman, and he wrote the riff. So I walk in. I was early to the session, and they were still. They were finishing up their first session. Of the day, which was John Pryor. And I walked in, it was just like, whoa.
- [167:48]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [167:49]
Marcus King
Dan was like that. Marcus, get his ass in here and play some slide guitar. So they threw a chart in front of me. I just had to pretend I knew what was going on, you know, that's where you got to rely on your ear. But it's conversational, too. Like, if you don't really know what's going on, like, you don't want to say much.
- [168:08]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, right. That's fascinating, man.
- [168:12]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [168:13]
Joe Rogan
I'm scared of music.
- [168:15]
Marcus King
Not.
- [168:15]
Joe Rogan
Not really, But I'm scared of practicing it. I'm scared of learning it, because I just feel like it would be very rewarding.
- [168:22]
Marcus King
It is.
- [168:22]
Joe Rogan
And I'd get very obsessed. Yeah.
- [168:26]
Marcus King
Something to it.
- [168:27]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. Well, listen, man, I'm glad there's people out there like you doing it, man.
- [168:32]
Marcus King
I'm just thankful.
- [168:35]
Joe Rogan
Well, that's the best attitude to have. That's what I think. I think gratitude is the best attitude to have.
- [168:41]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [168:41]
Joe Rogan
Anyone that's doing what they actually want to do, what's going to propel you forward and. And keep it going, is probably gratitude.
- [168:49]
Marcus King
Yeah.
- [168:49]
Joe Rogan
Just be happy that, like, you're able to do one of the coolest things in the world for a living, Kind of amazing.
- [168:57]
Marcus King
Just. And don't be an.
- [168:59]
Joe Rogan
Don't be an. That's it.
- [169:01]
Marcus King
You'd be surprised how hard it is to follow that one.
- [169:03]
Joe Rogan
I know, right? A lot of people, them fail. Well, thank you, Marcus. Thanks for being here, brother. It was fun. I enjoy it. What's that?
- [169:10]
Marcus King
Oh, thanks for having me.
- [169:11]
Joe Rogan
Anytime. Let's do it again.
- [169:13]
Jamie
All right.
- [169:14]
Joe Rogan
Bye, everybody.