#2502 - David Paulides

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Joe Rogan Experience #2502 – David Paulides

Date: May 20, 2026
Guest: David Paulides (former law enforcement, author of Missing 411)
Main Theme: The mystery of unexplained disappearances in U.S. national parks, possible connections to paranormal phenomena (UFOs, alien abduction, Bigfoot), and the institutional secrecy surrounding these cases.

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the decades-long research of David Paulides, who has documented thousands of unusual missing persons cases in U.S. national parks. Rogan and Paulides discuss patterns observed in these disappearances, the frustrating lack of transparency from federal authorities, and links to UFO encounters and Bigfoot sightings. The conversation weaves between grounded law enforcement investigation, government secrecy, strange forensic details, and open speculation about interdimensional phenomena and simulation theory.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. David Paulides’ Background & The Origin of Missing 411

• (00:54) Paulides explains how he was approached by two concerned national park rangers at Yosemite. They noted an unusual number of missing persons and the lack of follow-up or accessible records, even via Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests.
• The Park Service does not proactively keep or share a centralized list of missing persons, fueling suspicion.

Quote:
"Somebody ought to look into this because there's a lot of people missing and the Park Service doesn't talk about it." — David Paulides (01:55)

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2. Strange Patterns in Disappearances

• (04:06) Personal items like shoes, belts, and metal objects are usually found if someone goes missing, but in these cases, even these are often absent.
• (07:27) Many missing people are later found in areas that had already been searched multiple times, implying they may not have been there during initial searches.
• (19:42) Dogs and experienced trackers often cannot pick up any scent or trail, contradicting standard search-and-rescue experience.

Quote:
"I have 1,500 of those cases where canines were brought in, multiple canine teams, multiple searches and people were not found. I don't believe they were there when they were searching…they were left there later on." — David Paulides (09:19)

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3. Notable Case Studies

a. The Fireman from Toronto Case

• (05:39) A Canadian fireman goes missing on a New York ski trip and is found days later in California with no memory of the intervening time—a classic "missing time" anomaly.

b. The Stacy Aris Case (Yosemite)

• (11:15–15:36) A 14-year-old girl vanished while walking a short distance from her group. Despite extensive searching and a FOIA request years later, records remain inaccessible.

c. Truck Driver Case

• (09:17) A trucker missing for days is eventually found dead in a field previously searched thoroughly. Coroner states he’d been dead for two weeks, but searchers didn’t find him earlier.

d. Recent High-Profile Missing Scientist

• (21:31) Echoes the 411 criteria: an almost instant disappearance despite witnesses, failed dog tracking, and no evidence.

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4. Institutional Secrecy & FOIA Roadblocks

• (15:55–18:41) Paulides shares repeated denials from the National Park Service for missing person data, citing dubious legal reasons—even for 40-year-old, decades-cold cases.
• (17:41–19:42) The barriers appear excessive, with authorities alternatively requiring exorbitant payments to compile simple lists or citing ongoing investigations decades later.

Quote:
“First of all, missing people investigations are not criminal investigations. If it’s criminal, why classify as a missing person?” — David Paulides (18:48)

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5. Speculation: Supernatural, Aliens, Interdimensional Theories

• (22:08–24:56) Paulides doesn’t explicitly claim aliens are responsible but highlights patterns echoing classic abduction lore: missing time, memory erasure, unexplained returns, and failure of dogs/trackers.
• (24:56–26:50) A hunter recounts being frozen in time, abducted with an elk by entities, and returned with medical issues healed—parallels with classic UFO abduction reports.

Quote:
"They have the ability to freeze time and space... everything around him, nobody could walk in, nobody could walk out. It's like the time and space that he and the entity and the elk were in were frozen." — David Paulides (36:49)

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6. Bigfoot, DNA Evidence, and Interdimensionality

• (46:03–49:43) Discussed Bigfoot sightings: consistent oddities, Native American traditions, but lack of physical remains.
• (57:23–66:07) Paulides details a project to DNA-test anomalous hair samples:
  • Mitochondrial DNA traced to Middle East 12–15k years ago;
  • Paternal DNA unidentifiable—which he insists cannot be due to contamination.
  • Mainstream science and academic journals dismiss findings due to lack of reproducibility or belief in flawed methodology, but Paulides claims major labs got the same result.

Quote:
"If we took a hair from one animal and gave it to a hair and fiber expert, he could tell you within two minutes what animal that came from because every hair looks different… We've never seen that hair before." — David Paulides (57:28)

Quote:
"Dr. Ketchum took that DNA to four certified labs... all those labs got the same result." — David Paulides (72:58)

• (69:21–76:47) The “hitchhiker effect”—studying Bigfoot or Skinwalker Ranch phenomena can seemingly bring strange occurrences home with you, e.g., orbs, unexplained phenomena, affecting family and property.

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7. Connections Between Missing People, UFOs, and Bigfoot

• (78:08–81:43) Former Navajo Ranger told to investigate Bigfoot and UFO cases, recounts official tribal beliefs:
  • Tribes universally do not consider Bigfoot an animal, but an offshoot of humans, or “star people,” often trading with tribal members.
  • Old newspaper accounts support this view.

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8. Psychedelics, Perception, and Alternate Realities

• (85:02–99:40) Rogan and Paulides discuss hallucinogenic experiences, the “little people” of Native stories, and uncanny mushroom-induced unified hallucinations (e.g., everyone seeing elves).
• Raises the question of whether these substances reveal an underlying reality or just trigger fantasy.

Quote:
"What if we're the ant farm?" — David Paulides (33:10)

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9. Simulation & Consciousness Theories

• (93:04) Paulides relays viewpoints suggesting we may exist in a simulation. The patterns of appearances/disappearances could be “inserted events” to test or perturb the human system.

10. Cases with Possible Government Involvement

• (118:39–134:33) Some disappearances, such as that of Gilbert Gilman (a multi-lingual intelligence operative), feature overt signs of government intervention:
  • FBI collecting personal effects from his residence without a search warrant,
  • Clues possibly indicating a prearranged disappearance (played music loudly, left books/notes as clues).

Quote:
"My feeling is Gilbert knew. I think it was all planned." — David Paulides (123:49)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Art Bell’s influence:
  "I first heard about you from that guy, Art Bell. The goat." — Joe Rogan (00:12)
• Memory and missing time:
  “There’s a lot of people that disappear that don’t have a memory…historically have been abducted.” — David Paulides (07:27)
• On the cognitive dissonance investigating these cases:
  “Do you ever wonder if you’re losing your marbles?” — Joe Rogan (130:32)
• On the interaction between government secrecy and public knowledge:
  “There’s people around you that are aliens and you don’t even know it.” — David Paulides (114:30)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:54] Genesis of Paulides’ missing persons research
• [05:39] The fireman/skiing case: missing time and geographic displacement
• [11:15]–[15:36] Stacy Aris, FOIA denials, agency obstruction
• [17:41]–[19:42] Canine failure, patterns in search cases
• [21:31] Recent missing scientist & failed searches
• [24:56] “Missing 411: The Hunted” — hunter’s abduction and medical mysteries
• [46:03] Bigfoot, Native American beliefs, and physical evidence
• [57:23]–[66:07] Hair DNA testing project & controversy around findings
• [69:21]–[76:47] Hitchhiker effect, psychic influences
• [78:08]–[81:43] Navajo Ranger, Bigfoot as “star people,” tribal relations
• [85:02] Psychedelics and the universality of “little people” experiences
• [93:04] Simulation theory and missing people
• [118:39] Government involvement: Gilbert Gilman disappearance
• [132:39] The psychological impact of studying missing persons and forbidden knowledge
• [135:12] History of UFOs at Mount Rainier and high rates of disappearances
• [139:00] Personal experiences—Paulides’ own UFO observations
• [140:48] Where to find Paulides’ work (books, documentaries, website)

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Tone and Language

• Joe Rogan maintains his signature blend of curiosity, skepticism, and open-mindedness, shifting smoothly from questioning official narratives to wild speculation.
• David Paulides is methodical, factual, and cautious, but increasingly open to extraordinary explanations when standard investigative experience falls short.
• Their dialogue is direct, sometimes irreverent, and maintains an accessible tone despite dealing with highly unusual and sometimes disturbing subjects.

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides an engrossing mix of real-world investigative frustration, chilling unsolved mysteries, and bold speculation about the nature of reality.
Listeners are left with a sense of both awe and frustration: awe at the sheer volume and strangeness of missing persons cases, and frustration at the longstanding governmental resistance to transparency and answers. The interplay between grounded law enforcement experience and wild high-strangeness speculation is classic Joe Rogan Experience—never quite settling on one answer, but always encouraging you to wonder, “what if?”

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Resources Shared

• Paulides’ documentaries:
  Missing 411: The Hunted, Missing 411: The UFO Connection, American Sasquatch: Man, Myth or Monster, etc. (Amazon, Tubi)
• Website: missing411.com

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Summary compiled by PodcastGPT. For inquiries or corrections, visit missing411.com or contact the show directly.

Transcript

[David Paulides]

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[Joe Rogan]

David, welcome to the show. Pull on up to the microphone. Get it. Get that sucker up like a fist from your face. I first heard about you from that guy, Art Bell. The goat.

[David Paulides]

The greatest.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he was. I used to love listening to his show coming home from the Comedy Store. We come home at like one o' clock in the morning, coast to coast with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye. It was awesome. And that's when I first got turned on to your work. So tell everybody. You started off in law enforcement, right? That's your background, correct? How did you get involved in this mystery of people going missing?

[David Paulides]

So I had already written a couple of books and I was at Yosemite national park doing some research on another topic, and two rangers are following me around. And I went back to my room that was at the park. And about an hour and a half later, one of the rangers comes to my room and he's in plain clothes and he knocks on my door and he says, hey, Dave, I'm Ranger so and so I'm here off duty. I want to talk to you about some missing people. I said, come on. So we start talking and he says that he knew about me, probably the way he knew about me. And he says, I know you're from law enforcement. Somebody needs to look into this. About an hour and a half later, his partner shows up at the door and they said that they've worked at different parks over the years, and while they were working at those parks, there were missing people. And he said at the beginning there was a lot of publicity, a lot of people interested, a lot of activity. And then with time, within about 10, 15 days, all of that would end. And he said, we got concerned and we did a Freedom of Information act against our own agency to get the reports. And we couldn't get the reports. And then we did a Freedom of Information act request on other cases and we couldn't get the reports. And we got concerned because after that initial 10, 14 day period of searching is all over, there's nothing else that happens. That's it. And he said, somebody ought to look into this because there's a lot of people missing and the Park Service doesn't talk about it.

[Joe Rogan]

Now, what was he assuming? Was he assuming something nefarious was going on, or was he assuming that it was a lack of commitment to finding the bodies? Because you got to assume most people after 14 days lost in the woods are probably going to die.

[David Paulides]

I think all the above. He thought that there were too many people going missing, There wasn't enough follow up being done and nobody seemed to care.

[Joe Rogan]

So if you were being pragmatic and you weren't like diving into mysteries and the stuff that I like, the fun stuff, you would say, well, they don't have any resources, you know, there's not enough people to go looking. When you think about the actual square miles that you would have to cover to find a body and then also the reality of predators and all these different animals that are going to eat bodies, if a body's there, there's not going to be much left. You spent, obviously you spent time in the woods. Have you ever seen a dead mountain lion?

[David Paulides]

No, I've never seen. I've never seen a dead bear.

[Joe Rogan]

I've only seen dead bears because I was hunting. I've never seen a dead bear. Well, no, that's not true. No, I did. We did find one, but I think it's very rare. But that one was recently dead. He was killed by another bear. I think most of the time when you find dead animals, it's very recent. And if an animal's dead and it's left alone in the woods within a certain amount of time, something's going to eat it. Everything's going to eat it, including the bones. There's almost nothing left by the time they get done with it.

[David Paulides]

100%.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[David Paulides]

But one thing I learned from being around rangers in all these years now is that there's few things that belong to us that we go into the woods with that are always going to be there. Namely our shoes, belt buckles, belt buckles, leather, anything, the rubber waistband of your underwear. These kind of things stay, stay forever. A rifle, a pistol, a bow, and those things you're going to find. But getting back to the point of these guys, there were too many people going missing in a short period of time that no one seemed to care about. That was really their main focus. And somebody ought to look into it. Somebody ought to start collecting data. Nobody did. And maybe somebody from the outside, they're the inside. Maybe somebody from the outside would have more luck putting this all together rather than them. That's kind of the gist of it.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, there's some cases that are just flat out weird. Like some cases like people go missing, they die, animals eat them. That's a wrap. That makes sense to me. But there's a few cases and one of them you covered was a guy, I believe he was From Canada that went skiing in New York, and he went missing. And then he showed up 2,500 miles later in California with his ski clothes on, and he didn't know what happened.

[David Paulides]

Yeah, that was. He was a fireman from, I think, Toronto that went with a bunch of friends to New York on, like, a weekend ski trip. And the guys were all getting together at the end of the day to leave. They couldn't find him. He says he wakes up on a truck traveling from, like, Reno to Sacramento.

[Joe Rogan]

Woke up in the back of a truck.

[David Paulides]

No, Sitting in the front seat. And he said that he was. As he wakes up, he's talking. It's not like he was asleep and woke up. It's like his mind suddenly flashed open. Hey, you're alive. Now you can keep talking. And he goes, but I was talking to the driver, and we're traveling. The driver drops him off at Sacramento airport. He doesn't remember anything, but he remembers his own phone number. He calls his wife in Toronto, and she goes, hey, everyone's searching for you, thinking you're still at the ski resort. He has all the ski clothes on.

[Joe Rogan]

How many days later?

[David Paulides]

I don't remember. But even he doesn't make sense of it. He doesn't know how he got in the truck. The truck driver left. Nobody knows who the truck driver was. That was kind of the whole story. It wasn't a lie.

[Joe Rogan]

So he didn't ask the truck driver, hey, where'd you pick me up?

[David Paulides]

I think he was embarrassed.

[Joe Rogan]

Just embarrassed that he was in the truck and doesn't remember how he got in there?

[David Paulides]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, so he didn't say anything.

[David Paulides]

And.

[Joe Rogan]

And did he have any memories from skiing to, like, did he ever do, like, regressive hypnosis or anything?

[David Paulides]

If he did, it never went public.

[Joe Rogan]

Hmm. Was that the weirdest one?

[David Paulides]

Oh, no, there's weird ones.

[Joe Rogan]

What's the weirdest one? You heard of

[David Paulides]

the strangest disappearance story? There's a lot of people that disappear that don't have a memory. And if you look back and you study missing people, those people historically have been abducted. And there's something about that abduction experience where they can take away part of your mind.

[Joe Rogan]

You think alien abduction. That's what you're saying?

[David Paulides]

Alien entity, something, Some type of foreign.

[Joe Rogan]

Just want to be clear. We're not talking about a bad person abducting person. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. It's good to be passionate about something. Exploring what interests you adds more color. Color to your life. Makes it more fulfilling in a way. And that's not just limited to your personal life. If you run a business, you know how much of a difference it can make when the people on your team are excited about what they're doing. And if you don't, well, it's time to find out. With ZipRecruiter. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com Rogan it's been rated the number one hiring site based on G2. And that's because ZipRecruiter is always looking for ways to improve the hiring process, including its newest feature that lets you see the most qualified and more, more importantly, most interested people for your role. To make sure they're some of the first you start talking to. Find candidates who really want your job on ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for [e-mail] Rogan that's ziprecruiter.com Rogan Meet your match at ZipRecruiter.

[David Paulides]

Talking about some kind of entity.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[David Paulides]

And they take away part of that mind where they were probably doing something to you that they don't want you to know.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[David Paulides]

And there's a lot of those. There's a whole segment of people that I have chronicled that were truck drivers who have amnesia, who were found in conditions that were very strange. There was a truck driver in the Midwest where salt of the earth kind of guy drove independently. Wife and a couple kids. He picks up a load. I want to say it was pigs. And his truck is found like outside of Indiana on a little two lane highway stopped on the side of the road. He's not anywhere to be found. But his coat is found in a ditch on the other side of the other lane. So the sheriff comes out, they do a huge search, flyovers, canines, goes on for like four or five days. Nothing. Week and a half later, his body is found in that field in the spot where they had searched all that time. Impossible to miss. Coroner says he's been dead for two weeks. The sheriff can't make sense of that because he searched that with dogs and people. That guy should have been there. But Joe, I have 1,500 of those cases where canines were brought in, multiple canine teams, multiple searches and people were not found. And the point I try to make about this is that it's not that the searchers are inept because I don't believe that and I don't believe that the canines fail multiple, multiple times, because I don't believe that can happen. I don't believe they were there when they were searching. They were left there later on.

[Joe Rogan]

And so you've been, you've been into this for a long time, right? What was the first case that you looked into that got you thinking that something weird's going on?

[David Paulides]

Probably would have been in Yosemite. And there was a girl named Stacy Aris. And she just, weirdly, she grew up like five miles from me. I grew up in a little city, Cupertino, California. She grew up in Saratoga, the next town over. She went with her dad on a trip by horse sponsored by a contractor in the park at Yosemite. And they were going to ride into this place called the High Sierra Camp, her and her dad and five other people, and they get escorted in by a cowboy contractor and they come to these cabins and her dad's an older guy. They get to the cabin and she says, hey, Dad, I want to go over here to the point. I want to take some pictures. She brings her camera and one of the guys, a 72 year old guy, is sitting at that point and she goes, I'm going to go right there and sit with him and take some pictures. He goes, sure. Dad watches her walk out. They sits down. Old, old guy, barely could ride the horse. She's taking pictures. She gets up and down. At the bottom of the hill there's a small lake and surrounding the lake there's trees. She walks down into the trees, presumably to take pictures of the lake, but she doesn't come back. Big search. I'm talking about one of the biggest searches in Yosemite history. And they find the lens cap to a camera inside that path in the tree line. They never find her. And that happened 46 years ago. I filed the Freedom of Information act for that report and all the investigation into it. And I get denied. I appealed, I got denied. Finally, a special agent from the Park Service. Just so people know, the Park Service has uniformed police officers, National Park Service police that patrol their parks and they go to the National Law Enforcement Academy. Up above them they have special agents, detectives, and they are doing all the follow up work that the police officers in the field do. This case goes to a special agent. There's been nothing done on this case in 40 years. The special agent calls me, why do you want the case? I said, well, that's an irrelevant question according to foia, you can't ask that. And he goes, well, I want to know I said, well, it's been 47 years. I doubt anyone's looked at it. Have you looked at it? No, nobody's looked at it. I said, well, I'd like a copy of it just to understand what happened. He goes, you're never going to get the case. This guy's name was Special Agent U. Why you? I said, why? And he says, none of your business. You're never going to get it. I said, first of all, why talk to me like that? Prior law enforcement. I'm not being rude, I just want to know. He goes, forget it. Drop it. You're never going to see it. I said, no, I want that case. And he goes, you've never seen any other missing person case and you're not going to see this one. I said, whoa. I have over 30 missing person cases from your agency from around the United States that I foiaed before and I've received. You're a liar. You said that to me. I said, no, I'm not a liar. I don't lie and this is the truth. He goes, well, you're not getting this one. Anything else you want to know? I said, no, I think you've done it. And that was it. In that amount of time, I've really found out nothing more about the Stacey Harris case. 14 year old girl, disappeared, never found. Nobody's ever done anything on the case in 40 years. I still haven't seen it. Now, I talked to Tim Burchett, who you had in here the other day, and I explained to him I want a meeting with Burgum and I want to lay out what I have and explain the obstructions. The head of the Department of the Interior.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, Doug Burgum, okay.

[David Paulides]

And explain to him the obstructions that are happening in his agency. Those are our reports. If nobody's looked at it in 40 plus years, what does it matter If I have it right?

[Joe Rogan]

The people that were working back then aren't working anymore. It's not like anyone's going to get in trouble.

[David Paulides]

No, half of them are dead. Right. And Tim said, okay, I'll help my people get a hold of you. They got a hold of me. They said that they called doi. They said that DOI people said, yeah, we'll get a hold of you. I called them three times. They won't call me back.

[Joe Rogan]

So what do you think's going on?

[David Paulides]

So when you look at the totality of. And let's just talk about Yosemite, as I dug into it, there's probably over 50 people missing in Yosemite as we talk right now. When I asked for a list from Yosemite from the Department of the interior 12 years ago, they said they don't have a list. I asked for a list of missing people from the entire system in the Department of Interior. They said, we don't have a list. I said, well, okay, I've written so many books, I'm a printed author, I'm going to ask you to put that list together for me. According to the rules, I fit that criteria to ask.

[Joe Rogan]

But they said they don't have a list.

[David Paulides]

Right, But I asked them to put one together.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[David Paulides]

And they said, we'll get back to you. They said, no, you don't qualify. But if you want us to put together a list from the entire system, it's going to cost you $1.4 million. If you want a list from Yosemite, that's going to cost you $34,000. So that got me really upset. Over the next two years, I put the list together. Joe, the third year, you know what Yosemite did? They released a list of missing people from Yosemite. So I know I got all the people from Yosemite. I wrote about them in my books. They still haven't released a list from the entire system.

[Joe Rogan]

So do you think they released it because you were pressuring them? No. You could look at it a bunch of different ways. I'm trying to like, look at it from the skeptics perspective. You'd say, well, this is clear. A bunch of people don't want to do their job. They're lazy. They don't like this guy coming along and asking for information. But you think there's something weird going on.

[Jamie]

So FOIA I found on their website that was sent to him in 2011, it says that they appeal was properly invoked because of exemptions 7A. And here's. I'll let you read that what that is.

[Joe Rogan]

7A permits the withholding of records, information complied or compiled rather for law enforcement purposes, but only to the extent that the production of such law enforcement records or information could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings. So they could withhold it because you could interfere with enforcement proceedings.

[Jamie]

40 years later. That's 30 years later.

[Joe Rogan]

I guess that's weird. The exemption is intended to prevent premature disclosure of the investigate investigatory materials that might be used in law enforcement action. Forty years later, it says the incident

[Jamie]

is still on the. In criminal investigations. The incident is still ongoing.

[Joe Rogan]

40 years later.

[David Paulides]

What?

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, tinfoil hat firmly placed on your head. What do you think's going on.

[David Paulides]

So first of all, missing people investigations are not criminal investigations.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[David Paulides]

There's nothing criminal about disappearing. If it's a criminal investigation and there's criminal aspects to it, it shouldn't be a missing person case. It ought to be suspicious circumstances investigated by a criminal investigator.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[David Paulides]

It has a classification as a missing person. And what they're not saying there is. What about the other 40 cases I've already gotten from them that are since that. That are missing person cases.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. So that's a little weird. But I could also see incompetent people that don't want to work. They don't want to do their job. They're like, fuck this guy. I don't want to do his work. I don't want to go, why is he asking me for this information? He's just a kooky author. I could see that. But, like, what do you think might be going on with these people?

[David Paulides]

So when I was in law enforcement, I worked on the SWAT team and we had canines assigned to our team. Joe I can't ever remember us looking for someone with a dog and the dog didn't find the person. Right. I have 1200 to 1500 cases where they bring a canine to find a missing person. And the dog can't track, won't track, or turns around, comes down and sits down and is not interested in tracking. That's totally outside the behavior of a dog.

[Joe Rogan]

This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. We've all been there putting something off because we simply don't want to do it. And then it never gets done or you do it poorly. Your enthusiasm, or lack thereof, shows in your work. Hiring managers know this. It's a big factor they consider. And if you're like them, ZipRecruiter is your greatest ally because you can try it for [e-mail] Rogan and ZipRecruiter just added a new feature that identifies people who are interested in your role from those who are just meh about it. That's in addition to ZipRecruiter's already powerful matching technology. It's an easy way to get matched with top talent, perfect for your role quickly, while also making sure that you're talking to people truly passionate about the work they'll be doing first. Use ZipRecruiter and find enthusiastic talent fast. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And now you can try it for [e-mail] Rogan that ziprecruiter.com Rogan Meet your match with Zip Recruiter. Isn't that what happened to that woman recently that went missing that was a part of this whole group of scientists that were involved in propulsion research?

[David Paulides]

Reza.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, same sort of situation, right? She was with her friend. They were hiking. They had just talked. The friend was ahead of her, and the friend turned around to ask her a question, she was gone. They do an investigation. They bring in dogs. Can't find anything. The lady's just gone 100%.

[David Paulides]

You're 100% right. It doesn't make any sense. And it does. It fit that 411 criteria that I laid down, which is why I did a video about it. Her disappearance doesn't make sense.

[Joe Rogan]

So do you have suspicions? Like, do you think something supernatural is going on? Do you think something extraterrestrial or interdimensional, like, what do you think is involved in these people going missing?

[David Paulides]

First of all, I don't know, right? In my books, I've laid out facts and I let the viewer decide. But one thing I did find, because I've written about a lot of hunters that have disappeared, and let's say you and I go out and we're going to go pig hunting at your friend's farm down the way. And you say, hey, Dave, you go that way and I'll go that way and I'll meet you in an hour. Okay? So in my world, I call that point of separation. Every time on a missing hunter case, it's at that point of separation that something happens. It never happens when they're together. It always happens when people are alone. That's point number one. Number two is the canine issue. Canines failure to pick up a scent. They bring in professional trackers and they can't find tracks. That's not normal. A lot of times, say, in Alaska, they have some great native trackers up there, and they can't find people. And every other time they can. So it's like if you're going from A to B, you're going to leave a cent and you're going to leave a track, right? Well, they can't find that, and that's not normal. So in my. I made a movie called Missing 411 the Hunted. And in that movie, there was a case of 12. 12 guys are planting trees on the side of a mountain in Washington State, and there's a herd of elk at the bottom of the mountain. And all of these guys see this classic UFO come up the mountain, hover over one elk. The herd scatters, but one elk doesn't. It just stands there. And then without anything between the UFO and the elk, it picks the elk up and it's gone. The guys all say, f this, I'm out of here. The whole group of planners leave and the manager for the company says, whoa, guys, hold on. What's going on? So they call MUFON out, Mutual UFO Network. They bring some investigators out and they interview these guys one by one. And they all say the same thing and they say, what we're afraid of is we're next. They just took that elk, but we're next. So that's in the movie. Keep that in your back of your mind. There's a guy named Carl in Wyoming. He's hunting in the Medicine Bow National Forest alone. Sees some elk 100 yards away, lines up with his rifle.

[Joe Rogan]

Boom.

[David Paulides]

He says, dave, it's like everything went into slow motion. I see the bullet come out the gun about three or four feet and it drops to the ground. Says, I walked over. And he goes, the elk didn't move. And I pick it up, the bullet. I put the bullet in my pocket and then two alien type entities walk up to me and they engage him in mindspeak and what they do is they eventually take him on a craft and they take the elk on the craft and it's like the elk are frozen there in time. And they have him march behind a screen and they said, we don't want you. You're going back. Mind of mine. And he goes, what's going on? He goes, you're going back. He says, the next thing I Remember is falling 10 to 15ft. He's guessing he hits his shoulder, probably displaces it, and he rolls down a hill. They're already searching for him because he's missing his wife, the sheriff. They take him back and they take him to a hospital and they're taking X rays and he had tuberculosis scars as a kid. Those are no longer there. And he had other medical issues that are completely cured. The investigators came out and the Wyoming Department of Law Enforcement looked at that bullet and did an exam on it. And they could not figure out what that bullet hit to make it deform in the manner that it did. I have pictures of it in the movie. It's very odd.

[Joe Rogan]

See if you can find the pictures online. Of course you are.

[David Paulides]

If you go to Tubi T u B I missing 411 the Hunted the movie is there for Free. You guys could watch it.

[Joe Rogan]

Also check out Gearhead's Gone Wild. It's my friend's show.

[David Paulides]

Okay. So no tuberculosis scars, the bullet. So I'm talking to Carl and I said, well, why do you think they sent you back? He says, well, I think it's because I had a vasectomy. I said, oh, did they say anything to you about that? No. Okay. So he was 91 years old when I interviewed him. Sharp as a tack.

[Joe Rogan]

How old was he when this encounter happened?

[David Paulides]

I think he was 38, 39. And again, this happened in the Medicine Bow National Forest.

[Joe Rogan]

Where is that?

[David Paulides]

Medicine Bow is directly. I'd say about 75 miles northwest of Cheyenne. So at about the same time, the Air Force base in Cheyenne is having a group of cluster UFO sightings above the ICBM sites. And that was never made public at this time. It was 30, 40, 50 years later, through Robert Hastings and other Air Force personnel came out that these documents started to show up. So Carl would have never known what was happening at the same time these things in Cheyenne were happening. And then you think about what's going on in Wyoming that would cause this. But really, the epiphany to me with Carl is there's a lot of people in the woods that are found, quote, unquote, they fell. They always fall alone, and they always fall in places where if you and I are in the woods, we're going to be pretty careful when we're alone. We're not going to be walking off a cliff. We're going to be careful. A lot of these people are found under very unusual circumstances, dead at the bottom of the. Of an area that you just don't think makes sense, and they couldn't be tracked. So with Carl, when you think about him being taken, a hunter hunting elk, nobody gets seen, nothing's heard. So I did a circumference around the area where he went. And it's in the movie. There's a group of German hunters. Carl was German. German hunters that have disappeared. Nobody else but German that have disappeared in that area. And then when you look at the scope of what I've done in my work, I went backwards and I found there's a lot of German people that have been abducted, more than the normal population of people. And these German hunters really were the opening valve to me that something odd was happening with German.

[Joe Rogan]

What do you think that is? Why German?

[David Paulides]

I really wish I knew. That's probably outside my pay grade. I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of rumors about the Germans having associations with aliens

[Joe Rogan]

or during the Nazi times. Yeah, right. Well, there's a lot of, like, weird occult stuff going on with the Nazis. Right. And they were making, like, what looked like a ufo. They were constructing these things that looked like flying saucers.

[David Paulides]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

You know the Travis Walton case?

[David Paulides]

Oh, very well.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. This is. I have his bobblehead. He came in here. That's another guy that went missing in the woods. And it's a similar story.

[David Paulides]

It.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, he was taken aboard some sort of a craft. Multiple witnesses, including people who hated him. One guy who he actually got in a fistfight with earlier that day. And they all told the same story. They all passed polygraph tests. He shows up days later with this crazy story that he had been hit by a beam of light. They took him aboard this craft, fixed him, fixed whatever happened to him, and communicated with him, and then dropped him back off.

[David Paulides]

I know Travis well. In fact, I was doing a conference in Phoenix, and he brought his son to the conference because his son wanted to meet me. Because a lot of my work focused around things that happened to Travis. And I think Travis's case is probably not unique. And there's probably thousands of people out there that just don't want to talk about it. They just want it to go away

[Joe Rogan]

because it's too weird and because you feel like a fool.

[David Paulides]

Yeah, that. And I think maybe they're afraid that they're going to get pigeonholed as what you just said. Odd.

[Joe Rogan]

Strange. You're a crazy person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Travis case is very interesting because, I mean, this is just. I mean, I'm just saying this, but most people who lie, they lie about a lot of stuff. They don't just have one crazy lie from the 1970s that they keep repeating exactly the same way and have witnesses. You know, that's. The whole thing is very strange. Also, the fact that he went missing in the woods and then showed up multiple days later. There's nothing wrong with him. He's not dehydrated. He's not starving to death. He's fine. He's just weirded out. And he has this crazy story. And it's not like his story is unique either. That's what's very strange. The people that have been abducted, they all have very similar stories. They have similar stories about medical examinations being taken aboard a craft, things communicating with them telepathically. You know, there's. There's no, like, delusions of grandeur like you have. You're the chosen one. You're Unique. You're Neo. You're the one we wanted. We came here for you. There's nothing kooky like that. It's all just. They want to know what's going on with the human species, and they find a specimen, they do an examination, and it sounds completely insane, but we do that. We do that with species, we do that with other things. We do that with primates. We do that with all kinds of different animals that we research. I mean, people. There's probably someone doing it right now in the Congo, probably looking for some animals, you know, tranquilize, Tranquilizing some animal, doing studies on it, releasing it back into the wild. We do it all the time.

[David Paulides]

Yeah. One of the things I say at conferences is, what if we're the ant farm?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

That took a while to find.

[Joe Rogan]

So this is the bullet. So this is. Thank you, Jeremy. This is the bullet that this guy shot, and it hit something right in front of him. It just completely deformed. That bullet looks like it hit a wall. Like it hit, like something like a giant plate of steel or something. I mean, it's just completely flattened. That's not like a bullet that hits an animal. You know, bullets that hit, well, could hit bones and stuff and get distorted, but it wouldn't be intact like that. That looks like an intact bullet that just flattened out, hitting something completely immovable. Very weird.

[David Paulides]

One of the things that Carl said that they told him is when he got on that craft is he said, hey, you have my elk. And they said, yes, Carl. They said that we often come down to your earth and we take animals and we study them, and you happen to be one of the people that was right there when we were taking that, so we took you, too. And I've heard this before from other abductees that, just like you said, we look at and test animals. Apparently, they're monitoring the health of our planet by testing animals themselves.

[Joe Rogan]

So he said they communicated with him telepathically?

[David Paulides]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

What did he say? They. They talked to him about.

[David Paulides]

So the elk.

[Joe Rogan]

Why are they interested in elk?

[David Paulides]

That's a good question.

[Joe Rogan]

And because they're cool.

[David Paulides]

Elk are very cool.

[Joe Rogan]

Pretty cool.

[David Paulides]

Yes, they are. Now, that's an interesting point, because there are more hunters that are abducted or that disappear hunting elk than any other animal. And it's not that there's more hunters hunting elk, there's more hunters hunting deer on the whole in the United States, but for some reason, there's more hunters that disappear hunting elk. And I've said this in my books. Before.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, as a hunter, one thing that I would say is that when you're hunting elk, you're in the backcountry for the most part. You're in wild, remote areas with mountains. You're in a place with very few people. It's very hard to get to them. Whereas deer hunting, a lot of is done on farms, a lot of is done on flatland. You know, a lot of tree stand hunting deer, white tailed deer, specifically in America, North America are the most hunted animal. But if you've ever gone whitetail hunting, a lot of it is in and around farmland. And you never, very rarely, at least you're hunting whitetail deer in the mountains, remote mountain ranges. Mule deer, you hunt mule deer in remote mountain ranges. But white tailed deer, they're, they tend to populate around humans and around agriculture. So that kind of makes sense if they want to be stealthy, if they're trying to not be detected by as many people. You would, you'd probably also, you probably, if you're going to abduct someone and be reasonably sure that no one was going to see you do it, you would probably go where there's very few people and just some random guy who's decided to hike up to 10,000ft and chase a herd of elk.

[David Paulides]

Another thing I've heard from Carl is that he was told that these entities, whoever they are, have the ability to freeze time and space. And remember when I said elk, the elk he was looking at, he said he shot and they didn't move. It's like they were frozen. And they were frozen in that same position when he got on the craft. Time and space being that everything around him, nobody could walk in, nobody could walk out. It's like the time and space that he and the entity and the elk were in were frozen. It's a hard thing to grasp, but I've heard this before.

[Joe Rogan]

It is a hard thing to grasp, but the people that speculate on how these advanced species, whatever they are, they're able to travel, that there's some sort of manipulation of space time, that it's not as simple as like what we do, which is very crude. We do propulsion, we burn things and push stuff out the back and it makes stuff go forward. Or we have an internal combustion engine that does the same thing. It makes explosions inside the engine, burns things, pushes the pistons around, forces the transmission and it moves what these things supposedly do. And again, this is all just crazy talk. But what they're able to do is manipulate space time itself and instantaneously travel from one place to the next because they have a control over the universe in a way that with us, it's, like, completely theoretical. Like, there's this woman that speculates that in the future, someday, with many, many, many advancements and who knows how many years of, we will be able to travel quantumly, like the way quantum particles are entangled. She believes that perhaps the entire universe works that way and that everything is connected and that this thing that we have, this idea that the distance between stars is far too vast for a human to travel because you can't travel past the speed of light. And if you did travel past the speed of light, it would still take. You know, even if you went, like, two times the speed of light, three times the speed of light, it would still take thousands and thousands of years to just get to the closest planets outside of our solar system. And she thinks that one day, perhaps, if not humans or whatever's coming after humans, we'll be able to quantumly travel. And you would imagine that would involve some sort of manipulation of space and time that we can't quite understand. We're just. We're just. We're talking about it like it's magic. But again, if you were talking to someone from the 1400s about a cell phone, hey, I can FaceTime my friend in Australia. They go, what the fuck are you talking about? Well, I pick out this device in my pocket that's as thin as a few slices of paper. And through that, I can. I can, like, stare at my friend. And he could see me, and I could see him. Like, that's magic. You're talking crazy talk. There's nothing. There's no chord. There's no nothing. Somehow or another, there's like, what are you sending? That's being received, and it comes into HD video with sound, and it. It perfectly lines up with the way the person's talking. You hear it in real time. That's crazy. That doesn't even make sense. But yet we just are so accustomed to it that it's normal. Oh, I'm getting a FaceTime call from my friend. Oh, hey, what's up, buddy? You know, we think it's normal. And then you gotta imagine. If you could just push into the future and imagine thousands of years of innovation in technology. Like, what. What does that look like? You know, communication. Used to be you had to shout, you know, bob's over there, a hundred yards away. You had to put your hands. We're going to the left, you know. Now you could just text him or you could call him. And that the ability to communicate at vast distances will one day be very similar to the way we travel. We can travel vast distances instantaneously.

[David Paulides]

Part of the entanglement idea that you talked about. What if you're in Austin and I go back to Whitefish, Montana? And what if we had the ability to think? Hey, Joe, I forgot to tell you this. When I was on your show and I told you by my mind now, people would say, oh, that's stupid. That's ridiculous. But I've talked to people that are way smarter than me that say that part of this entanglement is that, what if you're in space and you're on the far side of the moon? And what if we all have that ability right now to affect others in other places? And our thinking and our mind is really more powerful, and we are this spider web of entanglement that we don't quite understand right now. And let me. Where this came from is George Knapp. Been on his show like 30 times. He had a guy named Colm Kelleher who was the head of all investigations for Bigelow at Skinwalker Ranch. And George said, hey, Dave, Kelleher wants you to come out to Las Vegas. He thinks some of the work that they're doing at the ranch right now overlaps with your work on missing people. So I came out to Las Vegas three or four times, met with Kelleher, and we talked about just what you're talking about right now, this overlapping of understanding consciousness, because it's much more complex than some people are willing or even for us to understand. But what if what's happening on Earth right now, whether it's abductions, cattle mutilations, UFOs, is really something that is so beyond us, we try to think in rational terms. Well, they're taking us for our sperm or they're taking us for our eggs. What if it's something a lot more deep than really we could comprehend right now?

[Joe Rogan]

Like what?

[David Paulides]

I don't know. I'm asking you, Joel. But his point being that all the time. They spent almost 20 years at that ranch investigating things. And he tells me about this one incident, and he says, I've got a physicist up on the hill with another researcher. It's 2 o' clock in the morning. They're looking down at the meadow and they see this bright light. And this bright light starts to get bigger. If you tell your guy, he could pick it up right now on if you go to Amazon to the movie American Sasquatch, man, Myth or legend? It's my movie. We have it there, and it starts getting bigger. And one guy doesn't have night vision, the other guy does. And this round thing keeps getting bigger and bigger till eventually it's like you're looking down a tube, and he says it's almost three dimensional because you could see something at the far end of the tube. And the physicist is handing the night vision back and they're sharing it. Eventually, the tube gets to be about this big, that something twice the size of you and I could crawl through. All of a sudden, they see something crawling down the tube. It crawls out, it jumps down onto the land, and they see it's so dark, even with night vision, that they could just see a silhouette. And it's bipedal, 7 or 8ft tall, all black in color.

[Joe Rogan]

Is this it?

[David Paulides]

No. Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Is that the documentary you're talking?

[David Paulides]

No, it's not mine.

[Joe Rogan]

Something different?

[David Paulides]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Sasquatch man. Myth or monster?

[Jamie]

Isn't that what you said?

[Joe Rogan]

Is that it?

[David Paulides]

That's it. Yeah. That's okay.

[Joe Rogan]

So this is your film?

[David Paulides]

That is the film, but that's not what I'm talking about.

[Joe Rogan]

Where is it in the film? Do you remember?

[David Paulides]

That's near the. Near the end, like, three quarters of the way through it. It's with my interview with Kelleher, and he's talking about it and this thing, and then it walks away on two feet. And when we talk about this, he said, doesn't make any sense to us. You know, did we just see a portal open up and an entity from another dimension crawl through into our dimension? And is that the access point that they're using? And can they open this at certain times and close it at certain times at will? And really, that was the first time that I had heard this from someone credible that this can happen. And if you think about the people at the ranch today, they said, well, the amount of energy it takes to open a portal is so many times greater than an atom bomb that it doesn't make sense that that could be the answer to this. Well, maybe their answer to what a portal is is different, but what these guys saw doesn't make a lot of sense to us.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, the whole Bigfoot thing doesn't make a lot of sense. One of the reasons why the Bigfoot thing doesn't make a lot of sense is that Native Americans don't have a lot of mythological creatures. It's not like they have a ton of dragons and demons and pixies and wood sprites. There's not, but there's over a hundred. Didn't we look this up? The name for sasquatch? There's like 50 different names that they have for this one thing that they universally described as a bipedal, hairy, ape like creature that's 8 to 10ft tall. And there's so many sightings of this one thing. It's not like people keep talking about different animals. Like I saw an elephant that has six legs. No, it's always bipedal hominids. It's weird. It's a weird so. Because like I've never seen compelling Bigfoot footage. It all looks bullshit. The Patterson footage, I think, is nonsense. I think it's a guy in a monkey suit for sure. I think most of what you see in terms of like photographic evidence is nonsense. But there's too many stories. There's too many stories for me to completely dismiss it. And I've always wondered if it's some sort of an interdimensional experience and that this thing may be the fact that it's in the woods and that they happen under heightened awareness. Because you're in the woods and you're probably very nervous and freaked out, so you're probably in a very bizarre state of mind and all of a sudden you encounter something that makes zero sense. And the same thing gets encountered by people over and over again. And you could write that off. Now if you're a cynical person or a rational person, which I'm neither one of those, you could write it off and you could say, well, there's an archetype. People have talked about this creature for so long that that's what you expect to see. So that's what you make yourself see. You know, maybe, maybe, maybe it's a bear that walks on two legs. Because we know they do that, particularly black bears. They walk on two legs all the time. I've seen them walk on two legs. It's very weird. But they don't describe it like a bear, they describe it like an ape. They say it has long arms like an ape, and that it looks at you and that these things exist in the forest, like deep in the forest where there's no people. And then when people go out there, they encounter them and the story is just. It's like the UFO abduction story. It's so similar. It's so similar over and over again, like a very similar story. And you've always got to separate the kooky stories because there's always a bunch of crazy people that make things up. There's a bunch of people that are probably on psychiatric drugs or they're tripping balls on mushrooms or whatever it is. There's a bunch of people that see things that maybe aren't there at all. But then there's enough of these stories where you gotta go, man, if just one of these is true, one out of a hundred, and then there's thousands of them, like how what is going on?

[David Paulides]

Not an ape, it's not a gorilla. If it was, we'd have it in the zoo and we don't. It walks like a man ape and gorillas don't walk like a man.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, Gigantopithecus did, right?

[David Paulides]

No, it didn't. There's no evidence it was bipedal at all.

[Joe Rogan]

I thought it was the jaw structure.

[David Paulides]

So they have one piece of jaw and a bunch of teeth and there's a lot of theories behind that, but there's no evidence it was bipedal. Oh, that's number one. Number two, there's no evidence it's ever been in North America.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. But the sightings that they find of this thing are in Alaska and the Pacific Northwest primarily. This is where you get a lot of them. And the idea would be that when the Bering land bridge was around before the Ice Age or during the Ice Age when the ocean levels were much lower and there was more land exposed, that these things could walk across Asia like we know the short faced bear did. And we also know people made it from Siberia into North America.

[David Paulides]

So let's just, just take Gigantopithecus. That wouldn't be an environment it could live in though.

[Joe Rogan]

That was a jungle animal, right? Right. In Asia.

[David Paulides]

Correct. So let's get back to that, but

[Joe Rogan]

before you go on, but there's also Gigantopithecus they found less than a hundred years ago. So these, I believe they were anthropologists and they were searching for different bones in an apothecary shop in China. And they found a molar that was extraordinarily large, like way too large. And it was a primate molar. And they were like, what is this? And so they took them to where they found it. And then as they started digging, they found some more bones and some different things. I don't. How much stuff have they found of Gigantopithecus?

[Jamie]

Only jaws and teeth.

[Joe Rogan]

That's it?

[Jamie]

Yeah, this says it was.

[Joe Rogan]

Now imagine if they never found that. Here's the, here's the question. If they never found any of that stuff. Show me what they got.

[Jamie]

I mean, it says what they have Here.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. We only have jaws and teeth, which are Gantopithecus, not pelvis, leg bones or full skeletons. So its exact gait can't be observed directly. Researchers infer its posture and locomotion by comparing its anatomy and evolutionary relationships with living great apes, especially orangutans, which are all quadrupedal and not habitual bipeds. So why do they think it's okay? No, Gigantopithecus is not thought to have been bipedal. Scientific consensus is that was a large, mostly quadrupedal ape. So why do some people say it's bipedal? Where the idea came from. Okay. A minority of researchers and many Bigfoot enthusiasts have proposed a bipedal Gigantopithecus, often linking it to Sasquatch. But those arguments rely on speculative interpretations of jaw shape rather than solid post cranial fossils. These bipedal reconstructions are generally rejected by specialists in fossil apes regard them as highly unlikely given current evidence. So perplexity, our AI sponsor says no, says Bigfoot, something different. So, but the thing is, if Gigantopithecus was a real thing and all we have is these, a tiny amount of fossilized bones and teeth, how many things make fossils? Very few. Very few. So there very well could have been a bipedal ape, like a human that was much larger. I mean, we know at one point in time bipedal hominids, like, you know, the early versions of human beings, were very hairy and some of them were larger than us. We just don't have fossils because most things don't leave fossils. Like, the fossil record is incredibly incomplete, right?

[David Paulides]

Oh, yeah, yeah. So, you know, in East Texas there's a lot of Bigfoot sightings.

[Joe Rogan]

Really? East Texas.

[David Paulides]

East Texas.

[Joe Rogan]

This episode is brought to you by Visible. Ah, spring is in the air. Which means time for some spring cleaning. We're cleaning out the garage and finally tossing those mystery cords. But while you're cleaning out your junk drawer, take a look at your wireless bill. Don't fall for wireless traps, tacked on fees, confusing bills and empty promises. Join Invisible and cut out the nonsense. With Visible, you get unlimited 5G data and hotspot on Verizon's network for one flat cost, just $25 a month, taxes and fees included. It's everything you need and nothing you don't. Plus, for a limited time, new members can get the Visible plan for just $20 a month for one year. Or using Code Fresh Start, refresh your wireless with visible. Head to visible.com to get started. Terms apply. Limited Time offer subject to change. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. What kind of terrain?

[David Paulides]

Mushy. Swampy.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[David Paulides]

Wet. Yeah. Right on the border. East Texas. Tennessee.

[Joe Rogan]

The border of what? Oklahoma?

[David Paulides]

No, down in the ocean.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, okay.

[David Paulides]

So when we talked about. You were talking about Alaska, Pacific Northwest. A lot of Bigfoot sightings. A lot of Bigfoot sightings in Tennessee, too. Kentucky.

[Joe Rogan]

And a lot of moonshine. Kentucky, Tennessee, too. Yes. A lot of people smoking crank.

[David Paulides]

Yes. So after I was a policeman, I had a master's degree. I worked technology for a while. I had a master's in hr, and I ran HR organizations. Did that for five, six, seven years. I said, I had enough, and I'm leaving. I had young kids. I was going to leave with my family and have fun. Two founders of this company, super rich, come to me and they say, hey, Dave, we got a job for you. At your own pace, at your own will. Here's the story. When they were younger, they didn't know each other. They grew up in different parts. They went up into the woods with their families, backpacking, camping, having fun. They get up in the middle of the night, take a leak, and independently didn't know each other. They saw Bigfoot, they found each other. They formed this company, made millions of dollars. One day, they're at lunch and they start talking to each other. And they had the same experience. They said, wow, that's freaking bizarre. So let's get to the bottom of it. So I'm leaving. They know I have an investigative background. They said, hey, we're going to hire you. We want you to go find out if it's true, false, or a hoax.

[Joe Rogan]

They hired you to go check to see if Bigfoot was real.

[David Paulides]

Flipped the whole bill. They said, you do it at your own pace, own will. We'll pay for everything. I said, not interested. They came back to me like, four or five times. Finally, at the end of a year, my wife is divorcing me. I now have only 50% custody. I have 50% of my life open to do whatever I want. They came at me again. I said, okay, I'm going to shorten it down to from what took five years to five minutes. Tennessee. Great Smoky Mountain National Park. There was a man there named Scott Carpenter. Scott, rest his soul, has since died. But he took me into an area in the park, and he said, dave, this is the part where I've had all kinds of evidence.

[Joe Rogan]

What kind of evidence?

[David Paulides]

Footprints, hair, hair, hair.

[Joe Rogan]

So has he ever had the hair analyzed?

[David Paulides]

Okay, so we Start talking about it. How can we get a good sample of hair? So I said, you know, with bear, they take bear samples and DNA samples from bear all the time. Let's try this. Let's take some packaging tape, wrap it inside out on the outside of a tree, put something at the fork of the tree, some kind of food, whatever, honey, something. If they lean up against the tree, it's going to pull the hair out, which we need the follicle for the DNA. Let's see if that works. She says, brilliant. We did it. It worked in that area, we had tracks. Now, just so you know and everyone else knows, there's hair and fiber experts in the world, and they testify in superior court all the time. Like out in the lobby, you have all these different kinds of animals. If we took a hair from one animal and gave it to a hair and fiber expert, he could tell you within two minutes what animal that came from because every hair looks different. So we took those hairs, went to a hair and fiber expert, and they said, well, where'd you get that? And I go, what do you mean? We've never seen that hair before? It's not classified. It doesn't exist. Hmm. Okay. So that means we're onto something. So then I took.

[Joe Rogan]

Does it have follicle? Can they do a DNA on it, or is it just hair?

[David Paulides]

They did, okay, it did. So I called the. I was living in California at the time. I called the University of California, Davis, the biggest animal lab in the world, and they said, what do you got? And I explained it. They said, bigfoot. We're not touching it. We don't want anything to do with it. I went to University of Texas, UC Davis. I went to like 6 or 7. No one would touch it. But then I found a woman that testified in the courts here in Texas as a DNA expert. I call her up. Her name is Melba Ketchum. Dr. Ketchum, I have this sample here. Would you be willing to do DNA analysis on it? Absolutely. It's going to cost you so many thousands of dollars. I go, no problem. We've got somebody who's going to pay. So she goes, okay, let's do one better. Dave, send me the sample. Let me look at it first. I'm going to give it to my hair and fiber expert. They look at it. Hair and fiber expert says, it's nothing we've ever seen. So that's good. So she goes, okay, here's what we're going to do. Can you get any more samples? I said, I have an idea. Let me try. So I go on coast to coast and I laid it out. I said, hey, we have these samples. We're looking for hair samples. Don't. Don't bullshit us, because we'll know right away. Send us hair samples with, with everything attached. And we're going to send it to a lab. You don't have to pay the bill. We got 125 valid samples that were not deer, antelope, bear, whatever she goes through the DNA analysis on IT costs. I think it cost us $400,000 at the end of the day. It's a lot less expensive now. And they all. So hair will give you mitochondrial DNA from the maternal side, but it won't give you fraternal DNA from the father's side that you need nuclear DNA, blood, tissue, saliva, and we got some of those. Son of a gun. At the end of the day, the DNA comes back 12 to 15,000 years to the Middle east on the mother's side, father's side, it doesn't exist. In GenBank, 352 billion base pairs of DNA does not exist. The father's DNA does not exist. GenBank says it's impossible. Since that time, other people have come forward and said, hey, you know, on the elongated skulls, we've had the same problem. We can't find the fraternal DNA, just like you. That's a guy named L A Marzulli that was doing the research there. And then Ron Moorhead, who's doing other DNA studies on elongated skulls in South America, said the same thing. That's odd, Dave. So the maternal we understand, the fraternal we don't. And the DNA, they did a paper about it. It's online. I've had a lot of people say, oh, you know what, that's B.S. it's bad. But nobody else has ever done a test. And I could get you more hair within two weeks if we wanted to. Nobody wants to test it.

[Joe Rogan]

I'll test it. What do we have to do?

[David Paulides]

The truth is. The truth is. The truth is.

[Joe Rogan]

Jamie, you ready to go? Let's go. Let's get some tape.

[David Paulides]

The truth is it'll all come back the same. And I believe that the researchers who have done it, they've gotten the same results.

[Joe Rogan]

And so if you say that on the fraternal side, it doesn't exist, on the maternal side, it's showing thousands. Explain that again.

[David Paulides]

So, like, I'm Greek, so they could, they could chase my DNA backwards through time to, I don't know, Greece, right? 10, 15, thousand years ago? Well, they were able to chase the maternal side back to the Middle East 12 to 15,000 years.

[Joe Rogan]

And what did they say it was?

[David Paulides]

That's all they said. But what they're saying is, is that and a lot of people have picked up on this, that has a lot of religious connotations to it.

[Joe Rogan]

Why does it have religious connotations to it?

[David Paulides]

Because of the Middle East. 12 to 15,000 years.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, but why is that religious? It's a part of the world 12 to 15,000 years ago. What gives it religious connotations other than the fact that that's the origins of a lot of religions?

[David Paulides]

That's it.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. But it's also humans and different animals live there. Like there's probably deer down there that weren't religious at all. You know, their DNA tracks back to that too. Specific results she reported. She claimed 111 samples from 34 North American sites produced two patterns human MTDNA and unusual or novel nuclear sequences that supposedly did not match known animals. Her interpretation was that about 15,000 years ago, an unknown hominin male population interbr with modern human females, leading to a hybrid lineage whose descendants are today's supposed Sasquatch. How and where it was published study did not appear in a normal established peer reviewed journal. Instead it was put into an obscure outlet called de novo scientific journal, which Ketchum herself effectively controlled to get the paper online. Science reporters and skeptics noted the absence of transparent peer review, the paywall for self published paper and the lack of independent labs reproducing her findings. But did independent labs try to reproduce her findings? That's the question. Scientific criticism Genetics geneticists and forensic biologists who examined the data and methodology have repeatedly pointed to contamination and poor lab practice as the most likely explanation for her hybrid sequences and analysis. Noted that The MTDNA being 100% modern human is exactly what you would expect from contaminated or human origin samples and that the odd nuclear sequences are consistent with mixed DNA sequencing errors or low quality data. Not a new species. Current status of her DNA claims no major genetics lab or independent research group has replicated Ketchum's results or confirmed a novel hominin genome corresponding to Bigfoot. In mainstream SC science, her study is treated as an example of flawed junk science. Interesting to Bigfoot enthusiasts, but offering no accepted evidence that Sasquatch exists. But here's the thing. Did anybody else try to test those things?

[David Paulides]

No. And let me explain that argument they just used. They're talking to a bunch of idiots. So when they say it's contaminated.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[David Paulides]

So let's say I contaminated the sample. Right? Well, Joe, my dad was Russian. The contaminated sample would show on the fraternal side. Russian.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[David Paulides]

It wouldn't show nothing.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[David Paulides]

That's why that argument makes no sense.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I'm not a geneticist, so I don't know if it makes sense.

[David Paulides]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what I'm saying? Like, if you could say, oh, this is why, you know, if you had someone who understood DNA and contamination and the whole process, they could maybe explain it in a better way. So what? The idea that humans interbred with things is not a new idea. You know, I read something recently. I actually watched a YouTube video and then read an article. I think we talked about this. Pretty sure we did. Where they believe that Neanderthal. They used to think that Neanderthal was a subspecies, like a different version of humans, and they interbred with us. There's a group of people that now are speculating that Neanderthal was the result of humans breeding with another ancient hominin and that that created Neanderthal. So it's not that we interbred with Neanderthal, but that humans actually created Neanderthal by breeding with this other hominid.

[David Paulides]

So there's only one country in the world that ever took this topic seriously.

[Joe Rogan]

Which country?

[David Paulides]

Russia. They took their science academy and took the five top scientists. This happened 40 years ago. And they started studying what was called Almasti, same as our Bigfoot. And I'm not bullshitting you, this is 100% true. Two of their scientists came to the U.S. i met one of them at a conference in Colorado seven or eight years ago. And I walk into the room and he's holding both of my books as I walk in, and he says, dave, you're the only guy to tell the truth out of everybody out here. What you're saying about the DNA, what you're saying about the lineage is 100% fact. It's what we found. And we know that they aren't any kind of ape or gorilla. It's. It's a human hybrid that people don't understand.

[Joe Rogan]

So did the Russians think that it exists currently?

[David Paulides]

100%.

[Joe Rogan]

So how are they hiding?

[David Paulides]

How are they hiding?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[David Paulides]

So if you think about, we don't even have the ability to do something with a DNA like they. Like whatever.

[Joe Rogan]

This is me making a hybrid.

[David Paulides]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[David Paulides]

So something far greater than us has learned to manipulate DNA. And if you think that Bigfoot is interdimensional, then wherever that came from probably makes a Whole lot more sense scientifically than something organically made here. And there is. Therein lies the reason that we haven't found a body. It can move in and out like it did through that tube at Skinwalker Ranch. And there's footage in our movie of what appears to be a Bigfoot evaporating into nothingness. What footage is this filmed by Scott Carpenter?

[Joe Rogan]

What is it called? What's the point? The same one that we're just talking.

[David Paulides]

American Sasquatch.

[Joe Rogan]

Can we see that footage? Where's that in the film?

[David Paulides]

It's during my interview with Scott.

[Joe Rogan]

And so who took this footage, Scott? And what year was this taken?

[David Paulides]

Sometime in the last 10 years.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. And it shows something evaporating like that. There's. It looks like a Bigfoot evaporating into nothing.

[David Paulides]

What you see is something kind of like smokiness looking down a trail. And then it slowly evolves to look like something that you and I would call a Bigfoot.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, so what you're saying is that we're not dealing with a standard biological organism. We're dealing with something that's probably the product of some advanced species and that they've created this thing, and this thing has the ability to move in ways and appear and reappear in ways that don't make any sense to us, Correct? Well, that would make sense if it was true. And again, putting that fucking tinfoil hat on tight right now, that would make sense. If you think about how many sightings there are and that there are no bones and there's no body. No one's found anything. There's nothing. There has been footprints. The footprints are weird. So I'd like to dismiss the footprints. Like, oh, come on. Somebody just, like, made a fake footprint. The problem is there's dermal ridges on these footprints. Some of them exhibit what's very similar to fingerprints, and that's very strange. And these are going back decades. So super hard to reproduce something like that. And someone you would have. I mean, you'd have to be a very, very advanced person and have some sort of incredible ability to manipulate material science just to be able to create something that recreates a dermal ridge and then use it and make footprints with it that are similar to what, like, a creature would make. It was very heavy, moving through the ground and pressing down on moist ground or mud and leaving footprints that have fingerprints in it. It's weird because these are not. It's not something like, you know, I weigh, like, 205 pounds or something like that. Like, it's not like that. It's like something that weighs like 700 pounds, like, deep into the ground. It's weird.

[David Paulides]

Abnormally heavy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, abnormally heavy. Large feet. But again, no bones, no nothing. And the only DNA, it's like, you know, this. It's disputed, but of course, people are going to dispute everything. No one's going to look at it and go, this is definitely not human. You know, they're going to go, well, who did this? How'd she do it? You know, oh, this is a lab that's, like, not doing it well, and they're publishing in some journal behind a paywall. This is nonsense. But then you have to think, well, okay, but are any other reputable labs. These reputable labs, are they interested in doing this work? Have they done the work? Have they taken the same stuff and done it through the exact same process but not found the same results that she had, or is there no other studies? Seems like there's no other legitimate studies of this same DNA.

[David Paulides]

Dr. Ketchum took that DNA to four certified labs. One of them was the University of Texas. And all of those labs got the same result. She extracted it, they did the analysis, she did the comparison at GenBank, and

[Joe Rogan]

she did this all herself, or she had other scientists do it.

[David Paulides]

So she wrote a white paper, and six different PhDs wrote it. The slam job there. I think it's interesting because have you heard of an organization called bfro?

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[David Paulides]

Biggest organization in the United States for Bigfoot sightings.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, okay. Bigfoot Research Organization. Yeah, yeah, from Finding Bigfoot.

[David Paulides]

Right, Right. So a man named Wally Hirsham was their benefactor. He gave him millions of dollars over the years, and they had one job, find DNA. 10, 15 years, they said they couldn't find it. We found it in less than a year. Wally came over when we had the DNA and looked at the results, met with Dr. Ketchum, said, I am completely done. You guys have proven to me exactly what it is. I now know what it is. Pulled all of his funding. At that point, he was out of the Bigfoot world. And he goes, you guys did what nobody else could do.

[Joe Rogan]

How come there's no good camera trap photos, you know, like, there's a lot of trail cameras out there that hunters use. How come there's no good trail cam photos, do you think? The idea is that these things know that cameras are there,

[David Paulides]

So I think they have that ability to look in the infrared range and they just stay away.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, if they are from somewhere else, and, you know, we're assuming they're primitive because they're. They're covered in hair. But what if they have some sort of psychic ability or some sort of intellect beyond what we would attach to an ape, and they understand what cameras are.

[David Paulides]

So do you know what the hitchhiker effect is?

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[David Paulides]

So at Skinwalker Ranch, the investigators coming onto that ranch, when they left and they went home, they took those entities home with them. And the entities didn't ever bother the scientists. They bothered the relatives, the wives. They did spooky things. They'd come around, show up in the home, chase the kids around in the yard.

[Joe Rogan]

What kind of entities?

[David Paulides]

A variety of things. Sometimes orbs, sometimes silhouettes of people. But things that never happened before happened after. These scientists went home, and they talked about it on their show, and it's happened a lot. One of the things that happens to people that study Bigfoot is they have the same hitchhiker effect. It doesn't matter where you go for some reason. And you were talking about, you know, maybe they read your mind or something, there's some kind of effect there that they'll follow you wherever you go. As an example, I live kind of in the middle of nowhere, and there's big woods behind my house. And I was walking behind the house one day. One track, middle of a muddy trail. No other tracks anyplace else. 17 inches. Just one track. I can't tell you how many times other friends of mine and researchers have had the exact same thing happen in the movie. I interviewed, I think, seven or eight researchers, all the best ones, they all say this has happened to them. It's that hitchhiker effect that they talk about at Skinwalker Ranch, which goes to the point of it being something extra dimensional.

[Joe Rogan]

I went to Skinwalker Ranch with my friend Duncan a few years back. I was doing this show for the Sci Fi Channel called Joe Rogan Questions everything. And one of the things we did was we went to Skinwalker Ranch and we talked to a bunch of people there, and, you know, some of them were just clearly full of shit. But there was this one guy who was not. And he didn't have a lot of stories, but he said there was this one experience that he had where these orbs made it into his house, and this orb flew through his wall, was inside of his home, and it seemed like it was interacting with him, and then it was, like, paused, frozen in front of him, and then took off. This guy seemed like a completely rational, regular guy. He, like I said, he didn't have a bunch of crazy stories about other things. I forget what his job was, but it was a regular job. Regular guy, seemed totally normal to talk to, but he said he had this one inexplicable experience. He said it was very strange. He said this thing just flew into his home. He said it was like. I think he said it was like the size of a softball, maybe a little larger. And it seemed like he was interacting with him.

[David Paulides]

So one of the people I interviewed for the movie was a former Navajo Ranger. You ever hear of those?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[David Paulides]

So they went to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. Full law enforcement credentials. Super smart guy. He comes back, he works 10, 15 years for the Navajo Rangers. One day, the lieutenant calls him in. He and his partner, they say, you got a new assignment. Oh, what's that? You're going to do nothing but investigate Bigfoot and UFOs.

[Joe Rogan]

I'd be like, fuck, yeah.

[David Paulides]

He goes, wait a minute. I don't want. I didn't sign up for that. He goes, I don't care. That's your new job. Because you guys are the two most credible people I have. You're going to go do that.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, because. Why? They had some sort of a suspicion.

[David Paulides]

Oh, they had tons of calls about Bigfoot being on the property. UFOs showing up over property, all the above.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[David Paulides]

And they wanted some expertise in that team. So he and his friend start investigating Bigfoot. And all of the things I've just told you happened to him and his partner over those years. Bigfoot, Big. They get a call at a lady's house that she just saw Bigfoot on her back porch. All the dogs are afraid. They're hiding under the porch. He goes there and he finds a track in a straight line. One thing about Bigfoot, as you and I would walk down a street, we walk staggeredly. Bigfoot walks one foot right in front of the other, and that's how you'll know it's real. Doesn't walk staggered like you and me.

[Joe Rogan]

It walks like it's doing a DUI checkpoint.

[David Paulides]

Exactly. Yes. Like it's walking on a balance beam.

[Joe Rogan]

Huh.

[David Paulides]

And he talked about the stride was four or five feet. He goes, I couldn't do it. And just like you were saying that the track was so deep in the soil they couldn't match it. He said it had to have been hundreds and hundreds of pounds. That's just one thing. But over the years, they started to make this association between Bigfoot and UFOs. They did this all on their own. And then he talked about the Native American belief. Well, Native Americans believe that they came from the stars. Each tribe does. And just like you said, all of the tribes have a different name for these, but nobody. No tribe believes it's an animal.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[David Paulides]

No tribe believes it's an animal.

[Joe Rogan]

What do they think it is?

[David Paulides]

It's a human. It's an offshoot. There's a very.

[Joe Rogan]

They think it came from the stars.

[David Paulides]

They came from the stars. There's a very, very famous set of stories coming out of the pacific northwest out of the 1920s and 30s, where a tribe of native americans hear that there's some people walking down a trail through the woods. Bigfoot walks in front of them, starts throwing rocks at him. Doesn't hit them, throwing rocks at them. The people go home. They tell the sheriff, hey, these huge hairy things are throwing rocks at us. Sheriff says, oh, that's B.S. we'll go out there, we'll kill them all. The tribe hears about this, and, Joe, it makes no sense. They have a press conference. Swear as I'm talking to you. And three tribes in the pacific northwest have a press conference, and it's in the Oregonian newspaper on the front page. When I found it, I said, how come no other bigfoot researchers ever talked about this?

[Jamie]

Why?

[David Paulides]

Because it doesn't support their belief system that it's an. They think it's an ape or a gorilla. And here the tribe saying it's a tribe of people. We've traded with them at times. They trade things with us at times.

[Joe Rogan]

What do they give you back?

[David Paulides]

Sometimes they will give them ornaments or certain kinds of foods that they have a tough time getting, and they will come back, and they will give them certain kinds of food, animals, et cetera. But in this story on the front page of the Oregonian, they talk about this. And when I've gone to the pacific northwest, and, Joe, there's not one tribe up there that believes they're an animal. None of them do. And they're the ones that have lived with them and handed these stories down over the ages.

[Joe Rogan]

And they all think that they come from somewhere else?

[David Paulides]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

How do they think they got here? What's their, like, origin story?

[David Paulides]

So there's a man who owned a herd of cattle and was wintering them on the Oregon, California border Up north of crescent city. And every year, he'd done this. This one year, this is another article in the paper. This one year, they winter with the native Americans there. He sees this native American walking with a tray of food. Doesn't think much of it the first day, Second day, he sees the guy Walk up into the mountains, up to this cliff area. Guy comes back and he says, hey, what's that for? He goes, I can't talk to you about that. So he goes straight to the chief. He owns all the cattle. He's working with the Native Americans. He goes to the chief. The chief goes, we've got hairy moon up there. Hairy moon. He goes, yeah, this thing came and it comes every couple months. There's usually two of them that come together. He goes, well, what do you mean? He says, we see a moon come out of the sky, it's very bright. It comes down near the land and these two jump out of the moon. And they're friendly, they get along with us and they stay there and we feed them sometimes. So that was in like 1885 newspaper. And you think about that story. How else would they describe an orb?

[Joe Rogan]

Say, Right.

[David Paulides]

There's no other way to describe it back then, right? It comes down, these things jump out of it and they run into the woods. And the Native Americans have been dealing with them for all these years. That's really the story. Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Now, the rational part of me, of course, wants to call bullshit, but the part that's willing to speculate again, if so many people are having this very similar experience with this tall, hairy, ape like thing in the woods, you gotta wonder, like, why is it the same thing? Like, why is it over and over again? And why do Native Americans have so many different names for this? And when, again, they don't have a bunch of mythical animals. It's not like they have tons of these, like, weird things that no one's ever seen before. Dragons and. No, just one thing.

[David Paulides]

Well, they do have these things called little people. Have you heard of those?

[Joe Rogan]

Mmm. What are those?

[David Paulides]

That's very odd. Something that kind of looks like you and me, but they're only about 3ft tall and they look like miniature, kind of like dwarves.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, people have those experiences when they do mushrooms.

[David Paulides]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you know that there's a specific mushroom that when you take it, everyone sees little tiny people?

[David Paulides]

I didn't know that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, this is. There was a recent article about this. See if you can find that, Jamie. There's one very specific type of hallucinogenic mushroom where, when you take it universally, everyone experiences little tiny people, like, little, like, you know, elves from ancient stories. I mean, what do you think?

[David Paulides]

Why.

[Joe Rogan]

Why is that so common? Like, what is that? They saw them on their dishes when eating the mushrooms that make people hallucinate dozens of tiny humans. Now we're saying hallucinate, but we don't. If everyone's seeing the same exact vision, that's very strange. Every year, doctors at a hospital in the Yunnan province of China brace themselves for an influx of people with an unusual complaint. The patients come in with strikingly odd symptom. Visions of pint sized elf like figures marching under doors, crawling up wells and clinging to furniture. The hospital treats hundreds of these cases every year. All share a common culprit. I don't know how to say this. Lamao. Asiatica Asiatica.

[Jamie]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Asiatica. Duh la MAU. Whatever it is. Lan L a n m a o a. Asiatica. A type of mushroom that forms symbiotic relationships. The pine trees in nearby forests and is locally popular food known for its savory umami pack flavor. In Yunnan, El Asiatica is sold in markets. It appears on restaurant menus and is served at home during peak mushroom season between June and August. One must be careful to cook it thoroughly though, otherwise the hallucinations will set in. Or don't cook it at all. Come on. Don't you want to see the elves? Why would you? Why would you cook it? Outside of Yunnan and a couple other places, the strange mushroom is largely an enigma. There are many accounts of the existence of this psychedelic mushroom and many people who looked for it, but they never found the species, says Juliana Ferchi, a mycologist and the founder and executive of the Fungi Federation, a non profit group dedicated to discovering, documenting and conserving fungi. This person, Dom. Dom Naur. Dom Naur is on a quest to solve the decades old mystery about this fungi species and identify the unknown compound responsible for its unusually similar hallucinations, as well as what it can potentially teach us about the human brain. You know, the thing is like, is it teaching us something about the human brain or is it allowing you to see something that's actually there all the time? What's at the bottom of that? Lilliputian.

[Jamie]

I was going to show you.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh.

[Jamie]

When I typed it into perplexity, there's at least one. Oh, the Choctaw have something.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It says many indigenous nations have their own name for little people. And the English phrase is just a loose umbrella term. Each language has specific words that usually means something like little people, dwarves or forest people. The Cherokee have it. What's that word? Yoon we soons die. Usually translated as little people. Choctaw, they have another crazy word. Little people and forest dwelling type called kawi anu kasha or forest dweller. Chicksaw have them for little people. Small supernatural beings. Yeah, there's so many of these things.

[Jamie]

Like medicinal plants. Uh huh.

[Joe Rogan]

Describes a little person who provides corn and medicinal plants. Well, many, many, many people who have taken mushrooms see little tiny people, see little elves. And in fact, you know, that is a core part of the Santa Claus mystery. You know, Santa Claus. Have you ever seen the relationship between Santa Claus and a mushroom called the Amanita muscaria?

[David Paulides]

Heard it.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you know that whole thing? Yeah. Well, one of the weird things about Santa Claus is if you go back and look at old Christmas art, like Christmas art from the turn of the century, all of it has Amanita muscaria mushrooms in it and elves. It's very weird that you would connect Christmas with elves and a known hallucinogenic mushroom and that these little elves and these big mushrooms are all together and it's Merry Christmas. See if you can find some of those old. They're really weird because it's like, how did we forget that and how did that go away? And there's also the way Santa Claus looks himself. Santa Claus with his red outfit, with his bright red outfit with the white cuffs and the white buttons. The mushroom itself is bright red with white spots on it. Like, look at these. Look how weird that is. Look. Santa Claus with psychedelic mushrooms.

[Jamie]

Gotta be careful a little bit now, because we've talked about it. Some of it has to have been created.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh yeah, 100%, you know, like we've fucked up the whole world. This is too new.

[Jamie]

Like that's brand new.

[Joe Rogan]

Is it brand new? That's not vintage.

[Jamie]

Look at that. Looks awesome.

[Joe Rogan]

Are you sure I made it?

[Jamie]

Yeah, it's on Etsy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, probably. But some of the old ones are real. Like the one in the middle is legit. Like that one's legit right there that you just put up there. And that one's from somewhere else. Look at that. How crazy is that? I wrote an article for my website, Santa Claus was a mushroom a long time ago about this and I probably fucked up the whole algorithm. But if you look at these images, these are ancient images, that the one that you had up there with the foreign language on it where it says psychedelic. Yeah, that one. Like how weird is that that these little elves are carrying these giant psychedelic mushrooms with them and they're walking off with it. And this has to do with Christmas how? Why does Christmas have to do with psychedelic mushrooms? The question is, are these compounds? Are you hallucinating when you take these compounds or is it opening up your vision to see things that Are there all the time anyway?

[David Paulides]

Good question.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. And like, how many people have gone and taken mushrooms in the woods and seen Bigfoot? It's another question, like, how many people have taken psychedelic compounds that dissolve the ego completely, put you in a different set of different space in terms of your headspace, and then you're able to see things, perhaps, that are there all the time anyway? The Bigfoot one is so weird because I always want to dismiss it. The rational part of me wants to go, oh, shut up. It's all nonsense. I go back and forth with Bigfoot. And then the other part of me goes, too many people. Too many people see the same thing. Too many people have had the. They can't all be crazy or liars. They can't all be. And if they're not, then, like, what is that thing? And why. Why is there no dead body? Why is there. Well, maybe because it's not the same as we are. Maybe it comes from somewhere else and maybe that is the whole. The whole experience, that the whole experience is weird and that you really can't quantify it. You can't talk about it the same way. You talk about, like, oh, you know, I know where a sloth lives. You know, it's like it's a different kind of a creature.

[David Paulides]

So I've been around some people that say they believe that we're part of a simulation, and part of that simulation is you get enough coins and you can drop in a new entity in the game that can screw with you.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, boy. Yeah, you get the right mushrooms, you see little people crawling up your chair.

[David Paulides]

Or let's see how this guy handles a Bigfoot walking in front of him.

[Joe Rogan]

Right?

[David Paulides]

Yeah, let's see how much his blood pressure goes up.

[Joe Rogan]

Right? Yeah. Well, it's also whatever we're doing in this as a human being going through this life, you know, you have a certain understanding of what's real and what's not real and what to expect and what not to expect based on your life experiences, based on what everybody else is telling you about the world around you. And you kind of categorized everything into what's real and what you. What you're going to experience walking through this world. But just what we know about the material world is so bizarre. Just what we know about subatomic particles. Just what we know about the very nature of matter itself. That's all energy condensed in different weird ways. And that most of what atoms are is empty space. And that a particle, like subatomic particle can appear and disappear. We don't know where they're going. They can. They could be both moving. They can be moving and still at the same time. They could be in a place of superposition. Like, what are we talking about with just reality itself? Reality itself at the lowest observable, the smallest, the deepest we can look at it. It's magic. Like reality itself is magic. And then you have the weirdness of the observer effect that when you pay attention to particles, they behave differently.

[David Paulides]

That's right.

[Joe Rogan]

And that there's some sort of research that shows that we somehow or another, we can actually affect particles in the past. Like quantum physicists talk about this. Not kooks like me, but quantum physicists talk about there's some sort of evidence that the observer effect can affect things in the past. Well, how far in the past? If it's only a few seconds, is it a millisecond? And what, is it limited to that? Or is it not? Like, is it the whole world flexible? Is everything malleable? Is everything dependent upon consciousness? And then what is consciousness? Is it simply what's in between your ears? Or are you tuning in to consciousness and it's just the limitations of your radio that's making the world around you shape into the form that you currently see. And maybe that is why when you add things to that radio, like psychedelic mushrooms, like the ones that make you see the little people, or the ones that make you see elves at Santa Claus,

[David Paulides]

you know, we.

[Joe Rogan]

I think we get. We get real arrogant when we talk about what reality is, Especially when we know from our understanding of reality that reality, again, at its quantum state, is essentially insane and impossible. It's magic.

[David Paulides]

A friend of mine the other day said, hey, Dave, why don't you go with me? I'm going to go do ayahuasca again. He's done it a few times and he says, dave, it'll open up your mind to things that you just don't understand that are real. And he goes, I've done it a couple times. I've had replicant seeing the same thing multiple, multiple times that I know I could never see without it. Have you ever done it?

[Joe Rogan]

I have not done ayahuasca, but ayahuasca is the orally active form of dmt. And I've done that. Yeah.

[David Paulides]

Is your experience positive?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I've never had a negative experience, but it is very strange and it feels more real than reality itself. And you are 100% communicating with creatures, Some beings, things that are. They appear to be living geometric patterns. I've had Multiple experiences with jesters, with things that look like jesters, where they're giving me the finger. And they were basically telling me that I take myself too seriously. They were like, fuck you. And then I was like, what? And then I was like, oh, I get it. And they're like, right? They were like, telling me like, yeah, yeah, you take yourself too seriously. I was like, oh, you're right.

[Jamie]

You're right.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, yeah, you have to be very careful with the experience, because if you're a control freak, if you can't just let go, you can lose your marbles. You can really go crazy. And it's not really recommended to anybody that has a slippery hold on reality already. Like people with psychiatric conditions and people that are already kind of up. But if you're reasonably stable and you are calm and rational and you can just let go, it is a wild experience. It's a wild experience that should not be illegal and should probably be studied and understood. What was the guy that we had on recently, Jamie, the guy who was doing Andrew Gallimore? How do you say his name? Who was doing those? They're setting it up in a country where it's legal and they're doing IV DMT trips that last like five hours. And these people, they go and they have this experience, and when they do it, they all encounter similar places, similar beings and similar patterns. Like, they come back with very similar stories. Like they're making a map of the territory of whatever this is that you're doing. And they all have the exact same way of describing it, which is similar to the way I described it before I ever heard of any of this, is that it feels more real than reality itself. Reality itself seems very dull and very smushy and not. Not crisp, if that's the way to say it. Whereas the DMT experience is very vivid, the colors are insanely bright. The experience that you get by encountering whatever these creatures seems way more powerful than any kind of experience that you have in normal everyday consciousness.

[David Paulides]

So does that drug open some kind of door or receiver or trace?

[Joe Rogan]

We call it a drug, but the problem with calling it a drug is the human brain makes it so. Terence McKenna had a great line. He said, if DMT is a drug everyone's holding because you got to make something illegal that's produced by the human body. Like, we know for a fact it's produced in the brain. We know for a fact that the mind actually makes this compound, which is the most potent psychedelic compound known to man. It's very weird when the human mind, the human brain rather makes a psychedelic compound that's the most potent compound known to man. Not just that, but it exists in thousands of different plants. The problem is when we eat them, it gets broken down in our gut by monoamine oxidase. Like there's a bunch of different, like phalaris grass is very rich in it. The acacia tree is very rich in it. In fact, there's some scholars from Jerusalem that believe that the story of Moses in the burning bush was Moses burning the acacia bush, which has DMT in it, and experiencing God, which completely tracks, if you think about it like this is what the experience feels like. It feels like you're dealing with an all powerful entity that's filled with love and understanding and knows you better than you know yourself and gives you guidelines on how to live life. And that Moses came back from this experience with these commandments, how to live life. That we all agree today. We look at those commandments like, these are very reasonable, makes a lot of sense.

[David Paulides]

So sometimes I'm sitting at my desk and I've got my dog laying next to me and the dog's looking down the hallway at my kitchen. I've got a great pair of knees and she's just laying there looking. Then like one every four or five days, she'll just jump up at like 10 o' clock at night and start growling at something down the hall. Little people, I don't know what it is. She sees something we don't see. So are they always there?

[Joe Rogan]

It's a good question. And what can the animals see that we can't? Because they definitely see things that we can't. They experience things that. I mean, their senses are so different than ours. We just assume that we both live in the same world, but we clearly don't. Dogs live in a different world than us. The world that they experience is rich with smells and sounds and they hear things and they smell things that we couldn't even imagine what they are. Yeah, the weird thing about DMT is that someone figured out in the Amazon thousands and thousands of years ago, no one even knows when, how to make this plant orally active. So what they did is they took the leaves of one plant and the roots of the other. So one of the plants contains dimethyltryptamine and the other one contains harmine, which is an MAO inhibitor monoamine oxidase inhibitor. And this MAO inhibitor allows DMT to be orally active, whereas if you just ate that plant, the monoamine oxidase in your gut would Break the plant down. And you would never experience the DMT trip. Like how, how do they figure out how to do that? And you ask them, they tell them the plants told them how to do it. Yeah, right. Like what? Yeah, but when you think about people that were living in this incredibly rich, life filled jungle for thousands and thousands and thousands of years and with no contact with the western world as we know it today, right? So this is thousands of years ago. They're living in, they have the subsistence lifestyle, living with animals and plants and fish. And they probably are deeply in tuned with the jungle and deeply in tune with the wildlife and the plants in a way that we can't even possibly understand. And that we've probably dulled all those senses or they've atrophied to a point, you know, where we just assume that everybody sees the world the way we do. And I don't think those people did or do

[David Paulides]

100%.

[Joe Rogan]

They all have. They all talk about experiences with entities from somewhere else too.

[David Paulides]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's a very weird world out there. And that's why, you know, when someone tells a story about being abducted by a craft from another dimension, it's so easy to just dismiss them. It's so easy to just throw it all away. But I mean, look, I was watching Fox News yesterday where they were talking about the different kinds of entities that the, the United States government has encountered. Did you see that?

[David Paulides]

I saw it.

[Joe Rogan]

Like have you seen it? Did you see that Shit, Jamie.

[Jamie]

But I've been waiting to sit. I'd show you this thing that was part of the, the movie he shows on this. I have it on the screen. That's the box, if you will, the transparent box that Carl, who we talked about earlier was taken into.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh Jesus.

[Jamie]

Where he was just once. He was in there.

[Joe Rogan]

Hold this thought, cuz I got a pee. We'll come right back and we'll talk about this box. I gotta pee real bad. We're back. All right, so we were at this portal showing you this guy.

[Jamie]

So he had this transparent. Which I would say is like, you know, transparent cube.

[Joe Rogan]

This is what he described.

[Jamie]

Probably could have a sphere in.

[David Paulides]

Yes.

[Jamie]

Yeah, so he said. He described that showing up and a six foot tall figure came out and with a black jumpsuit to come there, but said telepathically, come with me. He got in it and there he saw his targeted elk frozen in beams of light alongside five figures, human like

[Joe Rogan]

figures that seemed more spectral than alive. Stiff, unblinking, like passengers in stasis.

[Jamie]

And then the ship shifted. It took him 163,000 light years away and ended up on a tower on an alien planet where they fixed all of his ailments.

[Joe Rogan]

A tower on an alien planet under a violet sky.

[Jamie]

Yeah. And then they said, like, they're not. You're not suitable. They don't. We can't use you. Sorry.

[Joe Rogan]

Because of his. Because he's got no jizz.

[Jamie]

And then he was found miles away. Sort of just like how Travis Walton was found.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa. Hypnosis sessions later revealed more. What's his name? Auso I uso.

[Jamie]

That's the. In quotes alien. That would be the entity.

[Joe Rogan]

Ayuso1 okay.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Kind. We're experimenting on humans and animals. Possibly for genetic or dimensional purposes. Carl's truck was found miles away in impassable terrain embedded in mu. With him inside babbling about lights and voices. In impassable terrain.

[Dan Farah]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa.

[Jamie]

There's a bunch of.

[Joe Rogan]

So his truck was just placed in a place where it couldn't get to.

[David Paulides]

Correct.

[Jamie]

There's a bunch of pictures that I don't know if I'm imagining. He drew some of these. Because in that video.

[Joe Rogan]

No, bro. Those are photos. No, that's. That's.

[Jamie]

It holds up this photo. So I think he drew this right? So that he's an older man and drew one what he remembered. So a little bit of leeway.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh. So he drew the one there. And then someone did an artist recreation. Oh, look at that. Weird.

[Jamie]

Like, weird arm. Like a knife for an arm or something.

[David Paulides]

He said he thought that those were almost robotic.

[Joe Rogan]

Interesting. Well that kind of makes sense, right? That eventually being this is the photos of the bullet. It kind of makes sense that eventually we would realize, like, why would we travel places where we could just make like an artificial person to do it and report back to us everything. Why. Why risk a human's life?

[Jamie]

100 which is what we're about to do. That's what Elon's doing to the moon. He's going to send the robots up to make the stuff on the moon. Way easier than sending people.

[Joe Rogan]

Of course.

[Jamie]

You don't need. They don't need air.

[Joe Rogan]

That makes sense why he's canceling the Model S. And you know that and the X to work. Yeah. Get those. Optimus rope. Because he's. He's transformed some of his factories. They've. They've stopped the Model S and the Model X and they're using it to make these optimus robots instead that factory. And then these robots are gonna fly to the moon.

[Jamie]

If we had that idea. No one else, like, you know, of course no one else has had that same thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, of course. It makes sense. So he. He got a sense that this was a robot.

[David Paulides]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot of people have also said that about the grays, that they get the sense that they're not really an actual physical, like, or a biological organism, that there's some sort of a hybrid thing or some sort of a. Whatever.

[David Paulides]

The thing that got me about that is that if it was robotic, but it still has the ability to mind speak. That is really advanced.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Well, I mean, we have to figure out what consciousness is.

[David Paulides]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And what communication is. And if. If there's something you could tune. You could, you know, you could have a robot that could speak out loud. So why can't you have a robot that transmits? Why couldn't. I mean, with sufficient enough technology, kind of makes sense that you would have something that has the ability to transmit into your mind. So do you think when you're studying all these different people missing and like, do you try to put a percentage on how many of these people you think just got eaten by bears and how many of these people you think are having these kind of experiences?

[David Paulides]

So if there's any evidence of animal predation, I don't even work with them. I just push them out.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[David Paulides]

Won't even look at the case.

[Joe Rogan]

You're only looking at the cases that are super weird, that fit.

[David Paulides]

That no animals can track. Canines can't track. Right. They bring in a professional tracker. They can't track. There's a weather issue in relationship to the disappearance. Sometimes people are found next to water or amongst a boulder field. There's another one, Joe. Boulder fields. Now, if you think about where's the most boulders in granite, it's Yosemite Valley. And what goes through the middle of the Yosemite Valley? Water. The Merced river and that area specifically. That's a hard valley to get lost in. But yet how do these people get lost? And we're not talking about people going into the back country. We're talking about people getting lost in Yosemite Valley that disappear and aren't found. And there's a couple of case. Well, probably 10 cases that are just absolutely bizarre. There's a case that was investigated by Yosemite investigators back 40 years ago as a woman came out and they found her body so far away from a cliff that they said she. Their words, she was launched. So it's like if you jumped or you fell, you could only go so far. From the cliff.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[David Paulides]

She was found too far from the cliff, and they called it launched, but they couldn't understand how she got that far.

[Joe Rogan]

Not possible. With a gust of wind.

[David Paulides]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

How far was she.

[David Paulides]

That's all that. That's. That was their wording, that she had

[Joe Rogan]

to have been launched.

[David Paulides]

Right. And Norm, I've never seen that wording before in any Park Service report. They're usually very conservative in the way they discuss things.

[Joe Rogan]

And so this aligns with this idea that they get dropped.

[David Paulides]

Correct.

[Joe Rogan]

That's very disturbing that aliens would do that to us, just drop us. Like, I would think that if they're going to abduct you, hey, place me back in my bed. Be nice.

[David Paulides]

So pay attention when the next time you see a story about somebody being abducted, a lot of times they're dropped in their bed. They're not placed, they're dropped.

[Joe Rogan]

How many of these people that go missing like this under weird circumstances die versus just disappear forever?

[David Paulides]

I would say that it's probably 40%, 50% are never found. I would say that maybe half of that half that's left. 25. 25 split between alive and dead. But you find out a lot more about the case if you get the body back, because the body sometimes will show things that doesn't make any sense at all. A lot of times the person will disappear, and it's an 80 degree day. We talk about that point of separation. You go on this way, I'm going to the right. And 100 yards from where I last saw you, there's a pile of clothes there. And you're thinking, well, it's 80 degrees out. Why is there a pile of clothes? His underwear, his socks, his shoes, everything pile right there. He's never found. Where'd he go? Why would he take all his clothes off? People would say, well, you know, he. It's hypothermia. And there's a condition where you take all your clothes off.

[Joe Rogan]

Not in 80 degree weather.

[David Paulides]

Not in 80 degree weather. Not that fast. It doesn't happen. And so missing clothing, missing shoes are part of this. That don't make any sense. If you're in the woods, you're on a trail, you're not going to take your shoes off.

[Joe Rogan]

It's all very weird. Does anybody ever have an experience where they go and they get abducted and then they ask what happens to some of these people? How many people do you do this to?

[David Paulides]

It must have happened, but I don't know if they've ever gotten a response from it.

[Joe Rogan]

Has anybody ever Asked, how many people do you abduct? How many people have you taken like this?

[David Paulides]

I'm sure they've asked, but I'm not sure that they would have gotten an answer.

[Joe Rogan]

Huh.

[David Paulides]

And then, you know that there's a theory out there that there's more than one type or one group taking people.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Well, this is the Fox News thing. See if you could find that Fox News report. Because it's kind of wacky, because watching it on Fox News, you're like, is Fox News all of a sudden coast to coast with Art Bell? Like, what the hell has happened? Because they were talking about the Reptilians and the Nordics, the Grays. Fox News tv, Like, regular tv. Like, what is going on here? Is that nonsense? Are they being fed nonsense? Or is this disclosure and are they slow trickling this out to us to get regular folks like boomers, get them accustomed to this idea of there are entities out there.

[David Paulides]

What if they're just acclimating you to the reality of our world? And what if the truth is, is that there's people around you that are aliens and you don't even know it?

[Joe Rogan]

I think Elon's a fucking alien. It's the only thing that makes sense. I think I met a few aliens. Definitely Joey Diaz might be an alien. There's a few people that I've met them. Like, you're not real. There's no way you're real. But Elon's the top of my list. Like, he doesn't even make sense. Like, I. I've met a lot of people that are smarter than me. I. I'm, you know, I'm not the smartest guy, but there's only a few people that I met. I'm like, okay, we're not even the same thing. Okay, let's hear this. This is what Dan from Age of Disclosure, that's one of people I understand

[Dan Farah]

interviewed in my film. Senior intelligence officials went on the record saying that there have been dozens of crashed craft of non human origin over the years, and elements of our government have recovered those crashes and they've gotten out of that technology of non human origin and in some cases, non human bodies that were on these craft. A number of the people I filmed go on the record saying that the bodies were not all the same type of meaning there were multiple species.

[David Paulides]

Were the bodies alive or were they dead?

[Dan Farah]

The people in my film talked about events where they were. They were dead bodies. They were deceased bodies.

[David Paulides]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

And there's a lot of speculation about

[David Paulides]

the amount of UFO Information we've been

[Joe Rogan]

given on this first tranche, we expected more. We know there is more. I've never used that word before. Tranche. Have you ever used that word?

[David Paulides]

Why are you fighting so hard to release more? Yeah.

[Dan Farah]

So the President gave his directive in middle of February essentially instructing all federal agencies to declassify evidence of non human intelligent life and uap. What happened after that is the White House had to go get that evidence out of the hands of all these federal agencies and they allthey all, for the most part, pushed back. The people who have gatekept this information for 80 years, they don't want to share it. You know, they've gotten a lot of power and control over the years and it's just frankly not human nature for people to want to give up power and control. So there's a tug of war happening behind the scenes. There are a number of other reasons guiding their desire to keep this secret, including a general belief that the public can't handle the truth. I would argue the public can handle the truth. I think my film shows that people aren't watching it and jumping out of windows. They're curious and they want to learn more. There's also a general feeling that. A concern that they can't tell the American public what they know and don't know without also telling our adversaries and giving them some sort of advantage. But I think, I think that that's.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's good. Go back to that one weird one in the beginning, the black and white one that looked like a star, that looked like.

[Jamie]

That's been debunked, I think.

[Joe Rogan]

Is it?

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, how dare they. That one? Yeah, that's debunked.

[David Paulides]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But this is one of the more recent ones that was released in this immense dump of information. How's it been debunked? It's like, I'll look, I'm gonna debunk the debunkers off. That thing's awesome. I want that thing to be real. Yeah, that's Dan Farah from Age of Disclosure, which, if you haven't seen it, folks, amazing documentary, very interesting. You know, it's a bunch of different people that have inside information that are talking about it. And one of here they're just debunking it. The eight pointed star refers to declassified 2013 infrared military video released as part of the government UFO files. The footage was widely debated online and linked to alien or biblical origins. However, experts debunked the phenomenon, explaining it is simply a distortion caused by A hot jet engines exhaust fume plume hitting a military infrared camera. Allegedly. I prefer to believe that. Something else, I don't know.

[David Paulides]

Let me add another twist to this missing person thing, okay, Please. So it's more of an evolution for me, learning what could be happening in those woods. And I started off in national parks. And the most recent thing I've done, missing 411 national parks, Washington state. There's a case where a guy in 2006 disappeared in Olympic National Park. He was a former army intelligence officer. He worked in Israel, he worked in Africa. He worked in a lot of different places, spoke six languages. And then he started to work in campaigns. And he worked for a woman who was campaigning to be a congresswoman in Washington state. She lost. She became the head of retirement services in the state of Washington. She brought him along as the assistant. His name is Gilbert Gilman. When I wrote the story up for my books, he was supposed to show up at this meeting for her on a Sunday. He stopped off at Olympic national park, parked his car, was playing the music loud. A ranger come by, asked him to turn it down. He turned it down. He got out and he walked into the woods. He never came back. Huge search. He's never found. That's all I really knew. And I wrote it up like that. K9s couldn't follow his track. It disappeared, Blah, blah, blah. Then I interview. We set up doing this thing for the movie, interviewing his relatives. And I interview his girlfriend. And his girlfriend said she saw him a month beforehand. And she said a week before he disappeared, he was trying to call me like he wanted to tell me something and I was busy and I couldn't talk to him. Him. And I knew he wanted to tell me something, but then I put it up so something was wrong. I never got to talk to him again. So I started talking to her about his past. And I said, well, did he ever work for the CIA? And Joe, she goes, I don't know if I can talk about that. I said, well, why can't you talk about that? Well, I don't know. I don't think I can.

[Joe Rogan]

So that means yes, Exactly.

[David Paulides]

So she gets emotional, she's upset, she can't see him. And then we go into the next room, interview his mom. And his mom says, well, Dave, a lot of people don't know this. That before he disappeared, I have a penthouse in Chicago. This woman's really wealthy. And Gilbert has a bedroom there. And he asked me to stack a couple books on his nightstand. And he wrote something on A yellow pad on my coffee table in Arabic. And I said, how long would that sit Was that sitting there? And she goes, well, I went one week and he disappeared. I never got to really look at it. And then I flew to Washington, so I don't know what he wrote. So, Joe, here's the kicker. I said, well, that's pretty strange. And she goes, no, Dave, what's really strange is I'm in Washington and we're doing this search for Gilbert and the people who run my townhouse, my condominium, she lives like the 30th floor, call me and said, two FBI agents were just here and they said they needed to get into your townhouse. And I gave them the keys and they went into your townhouse and took some things. I said, Mrs. Gilman, they can't do that. I don't care what they say. They need a search warrant to go in your house. He can't give permission what was taken. Well, I went back, the yellow pad was gone and a couple of his personal things were gone. So I said, this doesn't make any sense. Why would the FBI go into your house to retrieve anything of Gilbert's if this is a missing person case and he has no relationship to the government? And she goes, well, Dave, you're asking what I've been thinking all along. Now this happened 15 years before I interviewed her. She's sharp as a tack girlfriend, sharp as a tack. And she says things haven't seemed right. And she said, I think he's alive somewhere. So as she's saying all this, my mind's racing and I'm thinking, how many other people have disappeared in a national park under circumstances that I just heard from a girlfriend and the mom, but I don't know about them because I haven't been able to interview their girlfriends and their moms? And why wouldn't the park service give me the information on the report if it was a straight missing person case like this? They would. So really, is there something more nefarious going on in the parks about taking people, that they're in conjunction with some other body, some other three letter agency to make people go away?

[Joe Rogan]

So they're doing this on purpose with people that have information that's inconvenient or that's top secret or they don't want it being leaked somehow?

[David Paulides]

I had the feeling Gilbert knew, I think it was all planned.

[Joe Rogan]

He knew they were going to take him.

[David Paulides]

Yeah. And I think he agreed to go.

[Joe Rogan]

Why do you think that?

[David Paulides]

Because he left that pad with the writing In Arabic.

[Joe Rogan]

Did he speak Arabic?

[David Paulides]

He spoke six languages.

[Joe Rogan]

And we don't know what he wrote down in Arabic.

[David Paulides]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[David Paulides]

And she also said a peculiar thing. I'm sorry, I don't remember the books. But he asked her to get two books and put on the counter. And she thought that that was a clue to what happened. Dante's Inferno might have been one of them. And I forgot the other book. But she said, dave, I think that's a clue. I just don't understand what he was trying to say. Huh. But that's also not the first time something like this has happened where somebody disappeared. And it was all pointing to the government. In the 1950s, there was a man that was going to Miami University. He played in their band. He was a wrestler for the varsity wrestling team. He was an all round guy. One night he comes home to his dorm and strangely, there's a fish in his bed. And he asked the RA for new sheets. She brings in new sheets, he gets them changed. Make a long story short, he disappears right after that, that night. So it's like that's the message that you're going to go that night or something. I don't know. So everything just looks like the guy disappeared from college. Except five months later, the head of housing for Miami University, or Miami, Ohio, is at a city 10 miles north of the Pennsylvania border in New York, a little tiny city. He and his wife are having dinner at a bed and breakfast. And sitting across from him, 10ft away, are three men at a table. And he says, I'm telling you, that was Ron Tammon, that's the guy's name. And he's talking to the wife and they keep looking at each other. So they go out to the parking lot and he tells his wife, I've got to go back in. Ron's disappeared. I've got to go talk to him. So he goes back in and all three of the guys are gone, all dressed in suits. That was another indicator that the government had something to do with the disappearance. Now, Ron's family lived in la. They never saw Ron again, never heard from him again.

[Joe Rogan]

What do you think they're doing? Like, why would they do that?

[David Paulides]

Well, the question, and I've talked to my team about this, why would the government need you to separate yourself from the family under unusual circumstances? What would be that point? I don't understand. If you wanted to go to work for government services, why wouldn't you just do it?

[Jamie]

Story about fish in ron's bed on ronaldtamon.com this is the right guy.

[David Paulides]

Yeah, that's him.

[Jamie]

Says this was a prank. Someone confessed it to him in 2010.

[Joe Rogan]

The fish was a prank?

[Jamie]

That's what it says. 2010, he confessed to me the culprit behind the fish prank.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, but still the guy disappeared. Think of it this way. In these emotionally charged and divisive times when no one seems to agree on much of anything, I present to you the one shining example of a core belief which with. With which all of humanity can surely agree and at that time honored value is this. No one in his or her right mind would ever knowingly sleep with a dead fish in their bed. Depends on how tired you are. Okay, this doesn't make any sense to me. So when these guys just disappear, like you think that he knew he was going to be taken?

[David Paulides]

Ron? I don't know.

[Joe Rogan]

You don't know? But the other guy that went into the woods, you think he. He knew?

[David Paulides]

I think Gilbert knew.

[Joe Rogan]

And how do you think he was taken?

[David Paulides]

That's a good question. I don't know.

[Jamie]

He might be a victim of a serial killer that someone else investigated on a TV show. 1012.

[David Paulides]

That's completely BS.

[Joe Rogan]

Why do you think that if a

[David Paulides]

serial killer killed him in the middle of the woods, they would have found his body?

[Jamie]

The guy said that he put at least one, maybe up to eight bodies 100ft at the bottom of the lake. Oh, maybe admitted to at least eight slings before he died at age 34. Oh, didn't say he killed this guy, But.

[Joe Rogan]

But he killed him in that area.

[David Paulides]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, well, that's possible. That. That would be why they didn't find the body.

[David Paulides]

They should have found tracks to a kill site. They would have found evidence.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. They would probably have found some blood.

[David Paulides]

And remember, they were on that from

[Joe Rogan]

the day he disappeared and they had dogs. Yeah, they would have found blood.

[David Paulides]

Correct.

[Joe Rogan]

Unless they strangled him.

[David Paulides]

Well, even if they would have strangled him, there would have been so many people in that area. That guy would have been seen at least.

[Joe Rogan]

Really? How was this, like, wooded? You're talking about a lake? Are you sure that you'd been seeing.

[David Paulides]

There's a small parking lot, not a big area.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[David Paulides]

This isn't like a real big parking lot. A real big turf system.

[Joe Rogan]

This guy had done this to a bunch of people for sure.

[David Paulides]

Not. Not right there.

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[David Paulides]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. The guy who disappeared and went to the woods. And you think that guy. What was his name again?

[David Paulides]

Ron Tammon.

[Joe Rogan]

No, the other guy. The guy that disappeared and went to

[David Paulides]

the woods, Gilbert Gilman.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. When. When that guy disappeared. Which is. Which is Gilbert. This is the serial killer one. Okay. The guy that you said parked his car and went to the woods, and you think that he knew that he was going to be taken?

[David Paulides]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

What do you think happened to him when he went to the woods?

[David Paulides]

I think somehow they had some extraction method, and who knows what that is? He was wearing Bermuda shorts, flip flops. He wasn't somebody that was going for a hike. That was the other indicator. He was wearing, like, a Hawaiian shirt. Even the ranger said she thought that him playing the loud music was a signal. That was a signal for her to come over and acknowledge that he was there.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, so he planned his disappearance.

[David Paulides]

Maybe. Or he wanted her to see her there. See him there. That was the indicator.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you ever wonder, like, if you're losing your marbles studying all these different things?

[David Paulides]

You know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

Like, you're going over so many different cases, there's so many kooky circumstances and different people disappearing, that your. Your whole perspective on this stuff gets a little weird?

[David Paulides]

I would say so, except I wrote this up as just a standard, everyday missing person case.

[Joe Rogan]

Mm.

[David Paulides]

These weren't my beliefs. These were the beliefs of the girlfriend and the mom. And I have to say that the FBI going to that house is completely outside the realm of anything normal.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's very bizarre. And also, taking the legal pad with the Arabic writing on it and the books.

[David Paulides]

Correct.

[Joe Rogan]

It was very weird. But, I mean, who knows what that's all about? That seems to have something to do with the government, whereas some of these things seem to have something to do with either extraterrestrials or interdimensional things or correct a lot of weirdness in this world. David, I think our world is much

[David Paulides]

more complex than we think.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I would agree with you.

[David Paulides]

Just like humanity, everyone's. There's a lot of complex people, for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, certainly the people that have access to this information, like the stuff that Dan Farah was talking about, like, imagine the mind of a person, assume that there are really extraterrestrial bodies somewhere. And let's assume that there are recovered crafts and that these people, like Bob Lazar, really have been back engineering. Don't you imagine being one of those people? One of this select group of people, a small amount that have information that's completely different from what the rest of the world has about the reality in which we exist, in that we share this reality with things that have technology that is beyond our comprehension. They can do things that we can't even imagine. And that these people all know it's real and that they're holding on to this information. They don't think we can handle it.

[David Paulides]

I mean, the radio shows I've been on and the people I've talked to have said the same thing about me and missing people. It's been a revelation that this many people are missing in our woods that are unaccounted for. And our government won't acknowledge it. Acknowledging it by releasing a list, releasing the documents. Why can't we see them?

[Joe Rogan]

But you could attribute that to sheer incompetence. Like the people that are running the parks and working for, like, you know, you get bad investigators in all sorts of. I mean, you're a cop. You know about all that.

[Jamie]

What's going on with this guy from two years ago? Gil's mother thinks he might have disappeared to be a spy for the US government and is still alive. And their authorities say that's possible.

[Joe Rogan]

What?

[Jamie]

He had a long history. I think he said he was an interrogator and knew six different languages. He worked for the un. It said when he went missing he had survival skills from his military training. He was a paratrooper.

[David Paulides]

Huh.

[Jamie]

And he just. He had a camera on him, was apparently all he had.

[Joe Rogan]

So they could have staged his disappearance so that they could position him somewhere else. People would think he's dead. You give him a totally new identity, now he's working undercover somewhere. Yeah, well, I would imagine that's possible. I would imagine, like if you wanted someone to work for you and you say, you know, this person's gonna work undercover, some top secret mission. Okay, but you've got to disappear. You got to disappear from regular life so that we can give you this new identity. We can't just have, you know, your friends looking for you. We have to move you to some other new part of the world.

[David Paulides]

So, Joe, if you were me and you were sitting across from his mom, that's really something vile, I think, to do to your parent.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, for sure. Horrific.

[David Paulides]

She was. She was a broken human.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. No, that's terrible.

[David Paulides]

And I asked her, I said, there's a good chance Gilbert's somewhere in the world watching this. What do you want to say to him? She said, gilbert, just please come home. She was like an 88 year old woman then.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, boy.

[David Paulides]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[David Paulides]

No, that's brutal. And.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that's a very different thing we're talking about. That's not a fun thing. No, the fun thing's the alien stuff.

[David Paulides]

I'm sorry, that's the fun stuff. Sorry, I got off track there.

[Joe Rogan]

No, but I mean, look, I get it. Cause you're dealing with. With like a wide swath, like a bunch of different kinds of encounters and different things. You know those. Yeah, that's dark.

[David Paulides]

So do you know much about Mount Rainier?

[Joe Rogan]

Not much, no.

[David Paulides]

So do you know that the. The original UFO period of time started with a UFO sighting?

[Joe Rogan]

Kenneth Arnold.

[David Paulides]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[David Paulides]

So do you know that when Arnold. Do you know what Arnold was doing when he was flying around? No. So six months prior to that, three transport marine transports were flying from El Toro Marine Base into Seattle. Boom. One. One after the other. They hit bad weather. One of those planes came around and they lost it. Arnold. There was like a huge reward if you could find it. Arnold was flying by Rainier, looking at the mountain, trying to see if he could find it, and these things went by. Long story short, months later, they found the transport had crashed into the side of Rainier. First of all, do you know that the Marines never took one body off of there?

[Joe Rogan]

Did they recover the vehicle, the craft?

[David Paulides]

No, no, they didn't recover anything.

[Joe Rogan]

They just left it there.

[David Paulides]

They left it there.

[Joe Rogan]

Was it because the extraction's too difficult?

[David Paulides]

That's what they said.

[Joe Rogan]

Isn't that possible?

[David Paulides]

I guess so.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, if it's not traversable, if they can't get in there.

[David Paulides]

But they did get in there.

[Joe Rogan]

They did.

[David Paulides]

They did. They said they got in there, they saw bodies, but it was too dangerous to remove any, and they left them all on the side of the mountain. So that's the reason that Arnold was there. A lot of people don't know that.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[David Paulides]

And when he saw those things fly by him at an extraordinary pace, he said, hey, that's. That's nothing that no planes we have. And there were multiple ones he saw go by.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[David Paulides]

Now, since that time, Mount Baker and Mount Rainier have had dozens of UFO sightings. And if you look at the dispersion of people who have disappeared on Rainier, it's. Most of them aren't way up here on the mountain. They're down here at the bottom. And. And when we put that in the movie, people couldn't believe how many people there are missing.

[Joe Rogan]

How many people?

[David Paulides]

There's probably at least 15 that have never been found. And it makes no sense.

[Joe Rogan]

And are they all hikers or hikers, photographers?

[David Paulides]

One kid worked for Alaska Airlines, went into the woods like every week because he lived near Rainier. And on his days off, he took pictures of the mountain and panorama shots. And some of his photos actually made it into the national park headquarters. They're that good. He went up to take pictures. One day, he has a tripod, real nice camera. He disappears. They search for him for 10 days, bring in canines, everything. They can't find anything of him. Now this is one of those cases where, let's say there was bear predation. Yeah. There may be nothing left of him, but the tripod will be there forever. The camera is there forever. His boots, his belt. But they never found anything. There was a medical doctor that disappeared just recently, within the last couple years, hiking in that same area, a giant loop, backpacking, I think he was 34 years old. Absolute genius guy. Came from UC Berkeley, just recently moved up to Seattle, took a new job, went on a backpacking loop there. He disappeared, never found nothing. But there's. It's repeatedly this big search, find nothing. No tracks, no scent trail, no evidence of them being there.

[Joe Rogan]

In the same area where there's dozens of sightings.

[David Paulides]

Yes,

[Joe Rogan]

but if you wanted to get abducted, that's the place to go if you really want to find out what's going on. Have you ever, ever thought about, have you ever seen anything yourself?

[David Paulides]

As far as what?

[Joe Rogan]

As far as like something that looks like it's from another planet?

[David Paulides]

Oh, we, we've seen orbs and UFOs many times.

[Joe Rogan]

Many times, yes. Have you taken photos of them or anything?

[David Paulides]

We have some, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Got good ones.

[David Paulides]

There's a lot of really good orb photos out there, so that's not unusual. I think the. After what I've seen, after I've made five documentaries now, I've seen 12 and 14 and 15 year olds do things with special effects that if you watched it on film, you wouldn't know if it was real or not.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, certainly today. Yeah, Today, I mean, all bets are off. You really can't tell what's real and what's not real.

[David Paulides]

That's why somebody who sends me a Bigfoot photo or ufo, I don't even watch it. Because you can't tell what's real anymore.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[David Paulides]

You'd have to go all the way back for me to film actual film, and then I'll look at it.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, David, thank you very much for being here. It's certainly a very interesting subject. I can't imagine what your brain is like, having studied this for all these many years. You got a very weird version of the world that we live in because you've been inundated by this stuff for decades. But I think there's something there. I don't know what it is. Do you?

[David Paulides]

I'll have to wait for that for maybe round two, huh?

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, round two. Well, thank you very much.

[David Paulides]

Thanks, Jim.

[Joe Rogan]

I'll just tell everybody where they can find your work, where they can watch your documentaries.

[David Paulides]

And my two most recent movies, missing 411 national parks. Washington State is on Amazon. American Sasquatch Man, Myth or Monster is on Amazon. And then you can watch my three movies for free on Tubi. And that is missing 411. That's the number one missing 411 the hunted and missing 411 the UFO connection. And my website is missing411.com and it has all my books.

[Joe Rogan]

All right. Thank you very much.

[David Paulides]

Thank you, Joe.

[Dan Farah]

My pleasure.

[Joe Rogan]

Place. All right. Fireplace.