#2524 - Rupert Lowe

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Joe Rogan Experience #2524 – Rupert Lowe

Date: July 8, 2026
Host: Joe Rogan
Guest: Rupert Lowe (appears in transcript as "Steve Laws")

---

Overview

This episode features Rupert Lowe (listed as Steve Laws in the transcript), a British Member of Parliament and leader of the “Restore Britain” party. The conversation centers on the current social and political challenges facing the UK—particularly mass immigration, multiculturalism, the grooming gang scandal, erosion of British national identity, government corruption, and the loss of individual freedoms. The tone is candid, critical, and frequently alarmist, with both guest and host lamenting institutional corruption and a retreat from individualism toward collectivism and statism.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Thanking Connectors

• Both thank Elon Musk, Jordan Peterson, and Bret Weinstein for facilitating the conversation.
  • “Thank you to Brett Weinstein, Jordan Peterson and Elon Musk for helping connect us.” – Joe Rogan (00:14)
  • Elon’s role as a supporter of free speech and British whistleblowers is highlighted.

---

2. UK’s Societal Decline — Main Theme

• Lowe claims Britain is in "bad shape," attributing societal decline to long-running policies that promote open borders and multiculturalism, which he says were enacted by European and UK elites to weaken national identity.
  • “Multiculturalism was the order of the day. They wanted open borders, they wanted a multicultural society...the nation state had been the cause of world wars...so to the rape gang report...the genesis of that is this multicultural invasion almost of Europe.” – Steve Laws (01:28)
• Asserts the intention was to diminish patriotism and make Britain easier to govern as part of a socialist superstate.
• Rogan: “So what you think is that the multicultural invasion...was on purpose to sort of diminish the idea of nationalism?” (02:47)

---

3. Immigration, Integration, and Social Cohesion

• Lowe discusses the UK’s waves of immigration, specifically acceleration post-1997 under Tony Blair. He argues that people from “clannish societies” (mainly “South Asian countries”) failed to integrate into Britain’s “high trust society.”
  • “The genesis of the rape gangs...is, I think, the cultural oil and water mix of people coming from clannish societies...to very high trust societies such as the one we had.” (06:05)
• Suggests new arrivals are “culturally different,” rely on welfare, and often do not integrate, living in insular communities, sometimes under “Sharia law.”

---

4. Government Policy and Welfare

• Asserts most illegal immigrants receive government support including hotels and generous services.
  • "I see the contracts...for laundry, taxi services, food...it's like staying in a very comfortable hotel..." (13:49)
• Lowe argues that this creates a powerful incentive for further migration and that British taxpayers fund services unavailable to native citizens, such as dental care.

---

5. Rape Gang Inquiry Report

• Lowe led a crowdfunded independent inquiry into the UK’s so-called “Muslim rape gang” scandal. Finds the government historically ignored or suppressed problem due to fear of being labeled racist and to protect the “Muslim block vote” in Labour constituencies.
  • “We raised about £600,000...because the government will not have a statutory inquiry.” (18:08)
• The report estimates at least 250,000 rapes over decades, with grooming and abuse networks widespread.
  • "We've estimated that a minimum of a quarter of a million rapes have taken place. It's probably much, much more..." (47:18)

---

6. Parallel Societies & Sharia Law

• Lowe claims “parallel legal systems” (Sharia courts) exist and are tolerated by British authorities.
  • "They have their own courts. Sharia courts, yes. A parallel legal system." (15:58)

---

7. Media Complicity

• The mainstream press (BBC, Sky, Daily Telegraph, etc.) allegedly downplays or ignores the grooming gang issue and negative aspects of migration due to political pressure and ideological capture.
  • “The BBC haven't covered it at all...A national monopolistic broadcaster paid for by a compulsory fee have not covered this as a matter of public interest...” (55:32)

---

8. Suppression of Free Speech

• Lowe: "They're arresting 12,000 people a year for social media posts." (11:30)
• Rogan: “How is that tolerated?...no one’s armed over there.” (27:04)
• Discussion of police and legal system’s transformation into “woke quangos” that suppress dissent under hate speech or “unconscious bias” laws.
• Reference to Lucy Conley case: Jailed for a social media post (27:44).

---

9. Cultural Tensions, Double Standards, and Woke Ideology

• Both speakers criticize British (and Western) “wokeness” for allowing the rise of abusive parallel cultures because of a pathological fear of accusations of racism.
• Rogan: “You can care so much that you let in criminals, and then you give those criminals all your money, and then the criminals can take over your country slowly but surely.” (16:29)
• Both discuss hypocrisy of progressives supporting “tribal” communities with patriarchal or violently anti-LGBT views (Dearborn, MI example; 41:51).

---

10. Historical Perspective & Individualism

• References to the founding of the EU, origins of the British Bill of Rights, and the philosophy of collectivism vs. individualism.
• Admiration for American individualism and the Founding Fathers; critique of European-style statism.
• “I like the individual and a minimal state...that's much more in your DNA than the European DNA...” (05:03)

---

11. COVID Policies & Mistrust in Authority

• Both decry pandemic mandates—lockdowns, forced vaccination, social policing—as evidence of authoritarian overreach and institutional rot.
  • “Our National Health Service was forcing people to have the injection...it didn't work. Created major medical problems.” – Steve Laws (84:53)
• Rogan shares his ivermectin controversy with CNN (86:23).

---

12. Systemic State Corruption & Decline

• Extensive discussion about the rise of unelected quangos, government waste, and Labour’s “Fabian Society” agenda (wolf in sheep’s clothing).
  • “The Fabian Society...their emblem is a wolf in sheep's clothing.” (61:08)
• Lowe believes the UK is in the hands of “organized crime,” with widespread corruption from top to bottom.
  • “We are, I think, in the hands of organized crime. I think a lot of the institutions...have become rotten.” (112:27)

---

13. Restoring Sovereignty & Path Forward

• Lowe advocates returning UK governance to Parliament, cutting welfare incentives, abolishing quangos, restoring free speech, and implementing a “hostile environment” for non-integrating immigrants.
  • “We want to create a hostile environment and encourage people to go, unless they're contributing, to go back to their own country...” (103:23)
• Also highlights the need for local government reform and for “the electorate to show, through the ballot box, that’s what they want.” (107:02)

---

14. Youth, Social Mobility, and Economic Concerns

• Discussion on baby boomers’ wealth, lack of entrepreneurship, and generational inequality.
  • “The money's all locked up with...baby boomers, and they're more concerned with their pensions...than...generating...wealth...for the young.” (72:55)
• Open acknowledgment that AI-driven economic changes will be destabilizing and possibly drive more inequality.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On multiculturalism and intentional dismantling of national identity:

  “It was a long, deceitful plan...the European elites, in league with our elite...tried to politically integrate Europe...then in 97 they tried to force it through with the euro.” – Steve Laws (03:20)

• On grooming gangs and government cover-up:

  "It does go...to a cultural difference...an open, high trust, Christian view of women particularly, and the Islamic view of women, which is all in the report." (21:38)

• On law enforcement and justice system breakdown:

  “It's rather like they're policing their own people under their own laws and they're just allowing that, yeah...if you come to our country, you should live under our laws.” – Laws (16:12)

• On progressivism and imported patriarchal cultures:

  “That's why Queers for Palestine is always hilarious. And then you see the meme Palestine for queers and it's throwing people off roofs.” – Joe Rogan (41:29)

• On the scale of the scandal:

  “We've estimated that a minimum of a quarter of a million rapes have taken place. It's probably much, much more, Joe, much, much more.” – Laws (47:18)

• On free speech and social media prosecutions:

  “They're arresting 12,000 people a year for social media posts.” – Laws (11:30)

• On the Fabian Society:

  “The Fabian Society...their emblem is a wolf in sheep's clothing. As if that doesn't tell you what they're doing.” – Laws (61:08)

• On state-run media:

  "The BBC is dripping poison into the veins of Britain every day." – Laws (59:06)

• On government corruption:

  “We are, I think, in the hands of organized crime. I think a lot of the institutions...have become rotten.” – Laws (112:27)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening & Elon Musk’s support – 00:14
• Multiculturalism and the EU project – 01:05 – 04:54
• Immigration and demographic transformation – 06:05 – 08:48
• Government & media suppression of grooming gangs – 18:08 – 21:38
• Sharia courts and parallel societies – 15:58 – 16:12
• Scope and horror of grooming gang offenses – 47:02 – 51:00
• Suppression of dissent & hate speech arrests – 11:30, 27:44
• Media and BBC complicity – 55:32 – 57:04
• COVID, trust in authority, and the vaccine debate – 80:25 – 91:45
• Fabian Society as an allegory for elite infiltration – 61:08 – 62:37
• Inequality, youth, & economic stasis – 72:51 – 76:48
• Path forward, restoring national sovereignty – 103:23 – 107:13

---

Tone & Language

The conversation is frank, conspiratorial, and polemical—frequently warning of “terminal decline,” “organized crime,” and dire societal consequences absent major reform. Quotes are often tinged with hyperbole and a sense of crisis, with repeated calls for a return to old values, individualism, and national sovereignty.

---

Conclusion

Rupert Lowe (Steve Laws) uses the Joe Rogan platform to deliver an urgent critique of postwar British governance and mass migration, focusing on the grooming gang scandal as both symptom and result of multicultural policy failure. He argues the UK must urgently restore sovereignty, individual freedoms, and the rule of law, warning that centralization, “woke” capture, and elite corruption threaten to destroy the country’s fabric. Rogan largely agrees, drawing parallels to American challenges while highlighting the centrality of free speech and public accountability.

(Note: This summary omits advertisements, non-content banter, and routine podcast signoffs.)

Transcript

[Steve Laws]

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

[Joe Rogan]

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Thank you for being here.

[Steve Laws]

Really appreciate it. It's my pleasure.

[Joe Rogan]

And thank you to Brett Weinstein, Jordan Peterson and Elon Musk for helping connect us.

[Steve Laws]

Well, we are going to see Elon on Sunday, so he's been an incredible support for us. So I don't know how you want to play the. I'm totally in your hands. I'll follow your lead. But, I mean, he's been helping us because Britain's in bad shape.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And that's why you're here. And this is what we're talking about.

[Steve Laws]

We're talking with the rape gang. We've done. This is. We've crowdfunded this.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Steve Laws]

Which I'm very happy to talk to you about, which I did.

[Joe Rogan]

Just this title of that rape gang report.

[Steve Laws]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The idea that there's actual rape gangs in the UK in 2026, and it's. Is it being ignored? Is it being downplayed? Like, how is it being received by the media and by the politicians over there?

[Steve Laws]

Well, the history of it is that basically, as you probably know, Britain, after the war, decided they were going to play a part in Europe, a bigger part in Europe. Well, our elite did, the British elite. And to do that, they had to basically diminish the power of the nation state and they had to head towards this European superstate, which is the eu. The genesis of which was obviously an inoperative.

[Joe Rogan]

Why did they have to diminish the power of the nation to do that?

[Steve Laws]

Because I think Britain was a proud nation state. With the American help, we'd won the war and we hadn't been invaded or conquered, which most of Europe had been. So you'd had mass dislocation in Europe. Huge numbers of people had been dislocated and pushed all over. All over Europe. And I think the Socialists. I was in the European Parliament, so I spent a brief time as an mep, a member of the European Parliament, when we finally achieved, well, a kind of Brexit. We can talk about that, but it wasn't a proper Brexit. So I think the genesis of the rape gangs, going back to this, was the fact that multiculturalism was the order of the day. They wanted open borders, they wanted a multicultural society that they basically felt the nation state had been the cause of world wars, effectively starting with Napoleon. Then obviously we had the Kaiser, then we had Hitler. And I think they saw it that way. The Monets, the Spinellis and the people who constructed the European Union. So to the rape gang report, which was your question, ultimately, the genesis of that is this multicultural invasion almost of Europe.

[Joe Rogan]

Can I pause you for a second? So what you think is that the multicultural invasion, the way it was set up, was on purpose, and it was on purpose to sort of diminish the idea of nationalism?

[Steve Laws]

Yes, I think that, that. Well, I'm.

[Joe Rogan]

And so this was like a long plan. So this was something that they must have had to sit down and like, who would be involved in this sort of a discussion where you would be willing to. To diminish patriotism, diminish this idea that Britain by itself is exceptional and the people are exceptional.

[Steve Laws]

It was a long, deceitful plan. So I always say, who implemented it? The European elites, in league with our elite, who effectively, if you remember in 1975 we joined what was called the European Economic Community. It wasn't effectively anything other than an economic union, but that very quickly changed. And effectively they tried to politically integrate Europe. That failed. And then in 97 they tried to force it through with the introduction of the euro. So having failed politically, they tried to do it financially. That was my first foray into standing as a member of Parliament to fight to save the British pound. Because once you lose your currency, effectively you lose your, your sovereignty and your national identity. And our gold reserves were going to be shipped out to Germany, to Frankfurt, and we would have become a vassal state, part of the European Union. It would have been irreversible. But in the event, we, thanks to Sir James Goldsmith, we secured enough votes, we forced the establishment to promise a referendum before they surrendered to the euro. And we ended up saving the pound, which in the end resulted in the referendum in 2016 where the British people voted to take back their sovereignty, which ultimately I think the establishment always knew that the core, the body of Britain, or body of England in particular, wanted its own accountable parliament in Westminster. It didn't want to be part of an unaccountable European socialist protectionist superstate.

[Joe Rogan]

So the quote unquote elites in Britain and the elites in the United States, it's coordinated with both of them.

[Steve Laws]

So I think less so in America. Joe, I can't speak for America, although when you look at what the Democrats did with USAID and all the stuff that was going on under Joe Biden, you have to wonder whether they began with the World Economic Forum to play a part in this. But I think the post war plan for Europe was founded on a socialist principle, whereas I think America has always been a very sound politically based structure, based on, obviously, you know, the Founding Fathers and your constitution, which I always think returns power to the individual and has always understood that the dangers are status dangers, not individual dangers. So I'm very much in the camp. I like the individual and a minimal state. And I. And I think that's much more in your DNA than it is in the European DNA, which. Which tends to be more statist.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, so they did this on purpose and they brought in people from what country specifically?

[Steve Laws]

Well, initially you got in Britain, you got people from Africa, you got the Windrush generation. So you got a lot of Africans came ostensibly to fill jobs that they always say the British people don't want to do. And it gathered momentum. It was relatively slow to start with. So you had an influx of people coming to the uk. You had open borders in Europe. So one of the absolute embedded rules they have is this freedom of movement concept. So they don't have effectively national borders. But we still obviously had the channel, but we embraced this and we started this immigration. What happened is it gradually happened. And I think these rape gangs have been going on, or we know they have for 30, 40, probably 50 years to a lesser extent. But when Tony Blair got in and he undermined a lot of constitutional sort of historical law, you got an acceleration of immigration from other parts of the world, not just from Europe, but also from other countries, South Asian countries in particular, who came to the uk. And the genesis of the rape gangs really is, I think, the cultural oil and water mix of these people coming from what I call clannish societies in South Asia and coming to very high trust societies such as the one we had and the one you have here, which have taken thousands of years to develop, to their high trust societies, where, and, you know, Lee Kuan Yew based Singapore on post war Britain, where you could, you had, you had honesty boxes for newspapers in London and you had a country that was completely at peace with itself. So it won the war, it respected peace, it respected freedom. And people were building, rebuilding their lives, having fought a Second World War to free Europe from sort of, in this case, Germany. Previously we'd done it at Waterloo when we relieved Europe of the French with Napoleon. So it really accelerated after 97, when a lot of the legislation that Tony Blair and his cohorts passed, such as the Human Rights act, which embeds within it the echr, he created the Supreme Court, they passed laws like the Equalities act, and there are a raft of other legal acts they passed, which effectively empowered a multicultural society which in some ways I think damaged the interests of the British people.

[Joe Rogan]

And you think this is on purpose? And this is my point is what is the benefit for them to be joined up with the rest of Europe? Is it just purely financial? Is it a power based strategy where if you can diminish the quality of life for people and institute more laws and put more restrictions on them, you can control them easier and it's less pushback for the politicians, less pushback for the people that are in charge. This episode is brought to you by Create, the leading brand in Creatine. You love their gummies, but now they've also launched Creatine plus Electrolytes mix, perfect for hot summer months. Creatine is proven to support gains in strength, lean muscle mass and aid recovery, but it also has cognitive benefits, more energy focus and NeuroProtection. Plus their NSF certification, certified for sport and third party tested for safety and potency. Visit try create.co/rogan or use promo code ROGAN for 20 off and free shipping on your first subscription order. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. We all like to find ways to save ourselves some time, like ordering out for dinner or meal prepping so you don't have to cook during the week. If you're a business owner looking to hire, a great time saving hack is ZipRecruiter. It's newest feature lets you meet the most interested qualified candidates first. Try it out [e-mail] rogan and it doesn't just let you meet candidates faster, you can hear why they're interested in their own words. Save time and meet great candidates sooner. With ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com.com Rogan that's ZipRecruiter.com Rogan Meet your match on

[Steve Laws]

ZipRecruiter basically yes, I I think it's the age old battle between individualism and collectivism. So, so I, I think the EU is a collectivist construct, whereas I think Britain as it was under our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, which as you probably know our Bill of rights in 1689, a lot of that was lifted by your founding fathers who embedded it within the U.S. constitution. And that embeds freedom of speech. It embeds the individual, embeds all of the rights that I think make the Anglo Saxon world great.

[Joe Rogan]

So how did it deteriorate to the point where they're arresting 12,000 people a year for social media posts?

[Steve Laws]

Joe, it's shocking. And this is why I have got involved in politics. I've been involved in politics since I fought the Maastricht treaty and then stood, as I said, In 97. I did a lot for business for Sterling, a lot for Vote Leave. Then I stood for the Brexit party and I was elected there. So I've been fighting this march towards an unaccountable state which effectively rewards collectivism and punishes individualism to the extent that now I find myself at the age of 68 as an MP running a party called Restore Britain to try and reverse this tide, to re. Empower the individual, to return to our original constitution and to protect the interests above all else of the. Of the British people to whom I think government should be accountable.

[Joe Rogan]

Do they still have that kind of unchecked immigration? Is it currently ongoing?

[Steve Laws]

We still have illegal migrants arriving by boat. They can't. They can't be under the current laws and treaties that we're part of. They're not being deported. The judges, thanks to the creation of the Supreme Court, they are now a quango, a woke quango. I think a lot of our judiciary is corrupt. So the answer to your question is we still have illegal migration and we have people living in Britain illegally. We have a lot of foreign prisons in our prisons and we have people who've come in under various waves of immigration, one of which, the biggest of which was probably under Boris Johnson, who was actually a Conservative Prime Minister, who allowed thousands, hundreds of thousands of people to come into Britain. And basically they are now a burden to the British taxpayer. So the answer to your question is they're arriving illegally still, they're living here illegally or living in Britain illegally still. We've got foreign criminals in our prisons and we've still got the legacy of this huge amount of immigration which took place.

[Joe Rogan]

And are a large percentage of these people receiving welfare from the British government?

[Steve Laws]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

What percentage?

[Steve Laws]

Well, most of the people who arrive, they're all supported, Joe. I mean, they're put in hotel immediately

[Joe Rogan]

as soon as you get there.

[Steve Laws]

In Parliament, I see the contracts. Thanks to my parliamentary questions, I'm allowed to ask questions and scrutinize the contracts for, for instance, the Bibby Stockholm was. It was a boat which cost the British taxpayer one and a half billion pounds. It's actually now lying, redundant and not being used. But I've seen the contracts for these illegal migrants in terms of the laundry services they get, in terms of the taxi services they get, in terms of the food they require. I mean, literally, it is like. It's like staying in a very comfortable hotel. And we've now got these people being settled all across our country. How many in hotels? Well, I don't think the government knows, Joe, in answer your question, I don't think they know how many people are living in Britain illegally.

[Joe Rogan]

Was the similar situation that America had over the last four years, where the. On the low number, they think it was 10 million people came in, which is insane. That's an insane amount of people to come in in four years.

[Steve Laws]

We think there's enough work to do initially to detain and deport people who are arriving illegally. I mean, to my mind, illegal means illegal. So it's fairly straightforward to the people who are arriving illegally, people living here illegally, the foreign criminals, there's plenty of work to do to remove them from Britain. And then I think we need to turn our attention, and that's in our mass deportation document. I've given you a copy of that, which effectively sets out the constitutional reasons why we have a problem, how we correct those constitutional issues, and how we then practically detain and deport the people who aren't supposed to be here. And once we've done that, we will then turn our attention to people who are living in Britain, to your point, who are on welfare, who are going to cost the taxpayer a fortune for the rest of their lives, probably, who aren't working, who are. Who are culturally different to us, who have a different view of their religion to the Christian religion, and are increasingly living in small groups of people who haven't integrated, who are living under Sharia law and who have their own courts.

[Joe Rogan]

They have their own courts.

[Steve Laws]

They have their own courts. Sharia courts, Yes. A parallel legal system.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. So it's unrecognized by the British government. Parallel legal system that exists inside of England.

[Steve Laws]

It's tolerated.

[Joe Rogan]

Tolerated. So they're aware of it?

[Steve Laws]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

And they're aware of the punishments that this court dishes out.

[Steve Laws]

It's rather like they're policing their own people under their own laws and they're just allowing that. They're allowing that, yeah. Whoa. Now, I believe. I don't know about you, but I believe if you come to our country, you should live under our laws.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, yeah. I mean, the idea of. Well, the United States in particular is a melting pot and, you know, people come from all over the place, and it's one of the cool things. There's all these different cultures, but there's certain cultures that if you allow them to come into your community and then they institute the laws of the country where they came from, you're gonna have a real problem. Like, they don't live the way you live. They don't have the same respect for women that you have. They don't treat them the same way. They don't allow dogs. Like, there's a lot of, like, stuff that a lot of people might not even be aware that come with that problem. It's like, the idea is supposed to be that Western society is inclusive and progressive because we're intelligent and educated and we care. But you can care so much that you let in criminals, and then you give those criminals all your money, and then the criminals can take over your country slowly but surely. And this is the. No one thinks that's a possible thing. People look at the Coliseum, you look at ancient Greece, and they think, wow, I wonder what happened to those guys. What do you think happened? Probably the same shit that's happening right now to England. The same shit that could have happened to America. Civilizations fall apart for various reasons, and one great way to get them to fall apart is to bring in a bunch of people and they don't have to follow your laws. And they bring the laws of, you know, wherever they're from, whatever fundamentalist religion, country they're from, where they have a bunch of crazy laws that are kind of archaic.

[Steve Laws]

Well, this is Sharia law, Islamic law, as you probably know. I mean, again, to your point, I think the best example I can give people of what happens if you do that is when Lebanon got its independence in 1948. They were a Christian country, and they were a very confident country. They were, you know, they had the best universities. They had a very open society. I never went to Beirut. I don't know if you went to Beirut, but Beirut in the 60s was meant to be the best place on earth to be. Great wine, freedom, very enlightened. It was a great. Lots of people were there. The minute that the Muslim population went over about 15%, you started to get a problem with a civil war. You've got the Druze and Maronite Christians in a civil war with the Muslims. And now Lebanon is a Muslim country, and Hezbollah, backed by Iran, is effectively running the show. So to your point, I couldn't agree more on. The rape gang report, which we've written was crowdfunded by 20,000 concerned English people who. We raised not a huge amount of money. We raised about £600,000 in varying quantities. People gave. And we did it because the government will not have a statutory inquiry. So our government and particularly the Labour Party have been presiding over this because it goes to the Muslim bloc vote. So we have in the UK a system of postal voting and in a lot of the inner cities and the places where these Islamic populations live, they are or have historically voted Labor. That's beginning to change. They're beginning to vote for Muslim independence now. And I sit with some of them at the back of Parliament. So effectively, this inquiry we did, we set out with a completely unbiased view of what we would find. And we did it because we were pushing the government to have a statutory inquiry. And a lot of the reason I got involved in it was, I think it was Elon Musk who triggered. He talked about it because a lot of people in the uk, I don't think know the extent to which this has been happening and the length of time it's been happening for.

[Joe Rogan]

This episode is brought to you by ONX Off Road. Ever wonder how to reach these epic mountain lakes? They're tucked away dispersed campsites. With ONX Off Road, you'll find legal open trails around you and even better guided trails mapped by real off roaders. Each one includes photos, terrain descriptions and difficulty ratings, so you'll know if your vehicle is capable before you go. Unlike other apps, Onx gives you turn by turn directions on the trail and their new dispersed camping layer shows where you can legally set up camp. You also get private land boundaries, public land overlays and the ability to download maps for offline use so that you're never guessing even when you're off the grid. It's a powerful tool built for serious off roaders. Try ONX off Road. For 50% off, go to onxmaps.com Joe Rogan why is that? What? Is that a failure of your media? Is it a failure of the politicians? Like why? Why don't people know about this?

[Steve Laws]

It's a total failure of the media because the media are supposed to be an independent body that holds to account failures of the state. And it's basically because this block vote through the postal voting system, which needs to be changed, is effectively or has been keeping the Labour Party in power. So they've put power ahead of principle. And in the report we cover this, we've covered the reasons why it's so serious. And to your point, we even cover, as you quite rightly say, the fact that dogs are not liked by the Islamic faith, largely because Mohammed Liked cats, he didn't like dogs. And what we wanted to do was interview victims, which we did. We did it properly. It took us over a year. We had a rape gang victim, Sammy Woodhouse, who led it. She's got a child by her rapist. And we had a team of people and we literally produced the witness bundles and we listened to the witnesses. And then we had a two week hearing in London where people gave evidence and we had a proper barrister who effectively presided over it and then helped us write the report. It's effectively Graham Smith, the barrister, did a fantastic job. And we didn't start out with any preconceived ideas. It started because we read some court transcripts of some of the people who'd been found guilty of this, which the government, by the way, has tried to keep quiet. Some of the historical court transcripts disappear. So we've been calling for these transcripts to be kept. Now we've actually tried to make a noise about that. And the more we read this and the more we carried on with the rape gang inquiry, the more it became clear to us that obviously there's a link between this power and the abuse and grooming and if you like, damage that was done to white working class English girls. And it does go. And in the report, we've looked at the reasons why. To your point, there is a cultural difference of opinion between an open, high trust, Christian view of women particularly, and the Islamic view of women, which is all in the report. So, for instance, the, as you probably know, if a woman accuses somebody of rape, and a lot of these Muslims come from Pakistan, Joe. They're predominantly Pakistan and they're predominantly from one part of Pakistan called Mirpur. There are some from Bangladesh, there are some from Somalia, there are some from Eritrea. There are other Muslim countries that perpetrate some of this. And of course, there are white people who perpetrate rape as well, but nothing on the scale of this. This is quite horrific. And our reporters effectively uncovered this. I think we've played a part with this report in the government saying that they're going to have now a statutory inquiry, because we didn't have any statutory powers to be able to force people to appear at our hearing. And they all appeared voluntarily. The government can actually force people legally to appear. They can actually make it a legal requirement that people attend. We couldn't do that. But there had been reports in the past. There was the J report in 2014 and there's been the Casey Report, all of which confirmed that this was happening. And the state still continued to try and pretend it was just happening in a small number of siloed areas where you obviously had a high Islamic population. The state has equally failed to collect data on the crimes that are perpetrated. So the ethnicity of the people who are perpetrating the crimes. And from there you can extrapolate, once you've got the data, as to whether or not you've got an extraordinary problem in one particular section of society. And again, using my parliamentary questions, I've been forcing as much disclosure as I can get. And this is how we've discovered that a lot of the data that should be being collected by the police, particularly by the National Health Service, by social services, a lot of the data has not been properly collected, possibly because the state does, I think, know that this is happening, but they don't want to admit that their multicultural experiment, which, as you probably know, famously, Enoch Powell warned, would fail with his speech, the. The Rivers of Blood speech, for which he was heavily criticized. So I. I think they do know, but they don't want to admit it. They don't want to be called racist. They don't want to. And this has permeated the whole of British society since Tony Blair. People are frightened to be accused of effectively being biased and white. And we're taught about things. You probably, I don't know, you have it here, unconscious bias and all of the other sort of what I call woke DEI driven rubbish, which, which has permeated Britain in the same way. I think it may have originally come from. From you guys, but it's.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's.

[Steve Laws]

It's certainly had a huge effect on us.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it had a great grip on us for a few years and it's lessened its hold.

[Steve Laws]

Well, thanks to the Donald. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that helped a lot. And I think a big part of it was Elon buying Twitter, where you got legitimate free speech, and which is again, back to this, 12,000 people getting arrested each year for social media posts recently. That is, how is that tolerated? I just don't understand how people aren't. I was about to say up in arms, but that's also part of the problem is that no one's armed over there.

[Steve Laws]

I have actually got some guns, Jason, because I have a farm. So when you come to the uk, I hope you'll come and shoot some pheasants with me.

[Joe Rogan]

But if you don't have a farm.

[Steve Laws]

Well, if you don't have a farm, you'll find it very difficult to get a gun of any Kind, and even if you have a farm. So Reform tried to politically assassinate me in, in, in, in 25, early 25, and made false accusations about me threatening to hit one of the Zia Yousef in a meeting. And somebody was saying, I went around Parliament saying I was a very good shot and I was gonna shoot Zia Yousef. I mean, if you believe that, I'm, I'm, I've got a completely clean record, I employ lots of people, I have lots of businesses and I've never had an issue. But listen, four armed police turned up, took all my guns away. I mean, and I'm a Member of Parliament. I said to them, guys, you could have just called me up and we could have talked about it. But no, they turned up just from an accusation. 9:30 at night, left at quarter to 12. We got them on the cameras, took all my guns, all my ammo and it took me five or six months to get them, get, get them all back. But, but look, so they don't want the public to have guns and they are doing their very best to damage the shooters who perfectly legitimately like to go and shoot clay pigeons, who like to go and shoot game, who like to go and hunt. Effectively, they are trying to make that very difficult through the licensing laws for guns. As you probably know, they banned handguns the 90s, right, in the late 90s, because there was a murder up in Dunblane. One murder, one murder. So everybody. My father used to shoot pistols for Oxford University and he had, he's dead now, bless him, but he had. All his pistols were taken away, the gun, the pistols he used to shoot with at Oxford University. I mean, I mean, we now have a society which needs radical change and we need to release the individual. And to your point, on social media posts, there was a lovely lady, Lucy Conley, who was locked up for something for 32 months for just a very emotional social media post which she deleted after four hours, about the Southport killings, where this chap, Axel Rudder Cabana, went and knifed three young girls and killed them. Despite the fact that the British state through prevent was aware of this. And we've had a similar case recently with Henry Novak where again was actually, I think on this occasion a Sikh stabbed him. And the police, despite the fact when they arrived at the scene, he told them he'd been stabbed, the police didn't believe him and they tried to handcuff him. And as a result of that, it's arguable that they opened up the wound, the stab wound, and he drowned. In his own blood. Meanwhile his murderer was never handcuffed. So this is where the British state's gone completely wrong. So instead of one law for everybody and one policing for everybody, this sort of view that the white population is racist, which I don't personally believe them to be, I think Britain is a very tolerant country.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you think that this perspective that society has sort of adopted in the UK about white people being bad, do you think this was. There was architecture to it, this was by design that this was done? Or is this just a natural response to people being called racist? Because of course in the past there was more racism than there is today. And people always want to point to that racism as, you know, evidence of colonialism, evidence of whatever it is that happened in days past. But why, why in England do you think that narrative took hold so well?

[Steve Laws]

Because I think, Joe, to your point, that this post war plan for multiculturalism, I think they realized that they. So it was by design, they've got a problem.

[Joe Rogan]

So part of it was probably infiltrating the universities and promoting these kind of ideas.

[Steve Laws]

It's almost as if with the World Economic Forum, there's this view that the Anglo Saxon nations have commanded and dominated too much of the world's resources. And there's almost like this misguided altruistic view that we should become more concerned with global welfare rather than the welfare of our own citizens, which I totally disagree with.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, there's also the. You will own nothing and you will be happy.

[Steve Laws]

This is, this is your Klaus Schwab,

[Joe Rogan]

which is palpable nonsense. Someone would even say that out loud.

[Steve Laws]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

You own nothing and you will be happy. Like, is this a part of an Orwell book? Because this doesn't seem like a real person would say something like that because who the fuck is going to listen to that? Doesn't make any sense.

[Steve Laws]

Well, George Orwell's been rather accurate in

[Joe Rogan]

terms of he's dead on. He was actually pretty optimistic. Like his view, his version of the world was, you know, a little bit more palatable than what we're dealing with right now.

[Steve Laws]

Interesting man, old Etonian, fought in the Spanish Civil War. I mean, he was, he was a very quirky Englishman who clearly had a hugely prescient foresight. And I think probably like, certainly like me, he had a healthy disrespect for what I call collectivist statism. And he was very much an individual and a believer in the individual.

[Joe Rogan]

It's really interesting because when I first read that book was in high school and I kept thinking, like, what a crazy. This had never happened. This is not even possible. But what a crazy world this guy's created in his imagination of things going completely haywire. And then you realize as time goes on, oh, that's totally possible. It's totally possible that things can get that ridiculous. I mean, when you're dealing with, you know, male, biologically male athletes that compete against women because they identify as a woman and use women's locker rooms. All the craziness that we deal with today, the open border situation, no one's illegal on stolen land. Hey, fuck off. Like, what are we, what are we doing? Like, what is this?

[Steve Laws]

Well, it's almost as if we're. If we're subverting all the things that made us great.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And, you know, there's nothing wrong with immigration, but there's. It's probably a good idea to make sure someone's on a fucking murderer before you let them in. Like the idea that there should be no border at all. It's like, if the world was perfect. That sounds wonderful. If the world was perfect, everybody paid their taxes and everybody followed the laws, why have borders? Clearly it's not perfect. You know, go to Pakistan, go to Karachi, go hang out, go down the street as a woman in a miniskirt and see how that works out. Go to someplace.

[Steve Laws]

Again, Joe, this is, you're quite right. This is, I mean, Pakistan is, I think, the wild place example of a rogue state, basically. And I think their view of, as you say, women who dress in ways other than the ways of Sharia, that is totally covered.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Steve Laws]

And again, it's all in various of the hadiths which we quote in the rape gang report. They are considered to be meat. And this is something I've never understood. How do you square this circle of this sort of clannish, backward looking culture which comes to a highly open, high trust society and then embeds itself within that society and undermines everything that we've achieved over a thousand years.

[Joe Rogan]

And acknowledging that is somehow or another racist. Acknowledging that some cultures are superior is somehow another racist. But just by just understanding human rights, understanding the rights of individuals to be free, to not be subjected to other people's archaic laws. And this is, look, these. A lot of cultures in this world live as people lived thousands of years ago. No one in the United States wants to live as people lived thousands of years ago. No one. And this is not a racist thing. Like, you should be able to come over here and practice whatever religion you want. But if your religion has rules that violate the laws of that we've all agree are just and fair, then you're not integrating and you're. And if you take over a whole town and now that town is subject to these archaic laws, we've got a problem. And if you let that problem get bigger and bigger, they take over the country. And that's an actual possibility for certain countries. And we have to recognize that civilization is not as sturdy as we like to think it is. It's kind of. Kind of flimsy in a lot of ways. A few bad things can happen and things can go sideways quite quickly.

[Steve Laws]

Well, I think liberty is very fragile, isn't it? Ultimately, if you don't protect liberty, you lose it. It was Margaret Thatcher who was very strong on this.

[Joe Rogan]

And you have to have laws.

[Steve Laws]

You have to have laws, but what you also have to have is everyone should be equal under the law.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Steve Laws]

And to your point, I couldn't agree more. I mean, Britain used to be a very tolerant society. So, for instance, European was very anti Semitic. Britain was never anti Semitic. We used to welcome a lot of Jews and Protestants from Europe who were being persecuted, particularly in France with the Protestants. So we were a very tolerant society. But the people who came integrated and they contributed. And that is the essence, I think, of sensible immigration. So it should be limited, targeted, and it should be only people who accept your religion and your culture and your words.

[Joe Rogan]

But what do you do, though, if someone comes over here and then they. They're not violating laws, they're not violating any laws, they achieve citizenship, but then they start bringing over more and more people and then start instituting Sharia law? What do you do? Do you deport them all? Like, how do you like this idea of having all these people recognizing how many people got in illegally deporting them, mass deportations, deporting criminals. It all sounds great until you talk about actually implementing it. Like, how do you do that? How are you doing that? Are you gonna knock on people's doors and pull them out of their homes and ship them back to where they came from? How do you do that?

[Steve Laws]

I think the first thing you do is you stop them coming across.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, well, how many?

[Steve Laws]

They shouldn't be coming anywhere under international law because they're traveling across safe countries, so they shouldn't be coming.

[Joe Rogan]

What's the estimate of the amount of illegal immigration that you have in Britain?

[Steve Laws]

It's almost impossible to say how many people are living there illegally or living with us illegally. But in our paper, I mean, we think it's sort of 1.8 to 2 million people, probably. That's our estimate. But people arriving. We know how many are arriving. There's a lot arriving every day, particularly when the sea is calm.

[Joe Rogan]

How many arrive every day?

[Steve Laws]

They're coming where it can vary. I mean, you can get 1,000 in a day. If the sea's rough, you get none. Because obviously they suffer if they try and cross in little overcrowded dinghies. They can't get across. But we're paying the French over half a billion pounds a year to try and stop it. That, I think, is not happening. And as a result of that, our Border Patrol picks them up, gives them bottles of water, brings them in and settles them in hotels and pays them welfare. They become. And then they apply for residency and they say they're asylum seekers. I argue most of them are economic migrants. But, you know, our woke culture is not protecting the interests of the British people.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's also a massive incentive. If you live in a terribly poor country and you can just get to England and then instantaneously you will get money and housing.

[Steve Laws]

That's right.

[Joe Rogan]

Why would you not do that?

[Steve Laws]

Well, not only that, you go to the top of the waiting list for dental treatment, which British people don't get. The nhs, the top of the waiting list.

[Joe Rogan]

Wait a minute. They get. They get access to dental treatment that the British people don't get?

[Steve Laws]

Correct, correct.

[Joe Rogan]

Why? Why do immigrants get access to it?

[Steve Laws]

This, Joe, is the mystery of what our leaders. I don't know what they think they're doing, but they have this misguided view that these people are actually. They call them asylum seekers. They say they need to be looked after and protected. They're not. They're economic migrants. And to your point, if they know there's welfare when they reach Britain, they'll travel across multiple safe countries to get to the welfare, the free housing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, of course.

[Steve Laws]

And all the other stuff. So. And then unless you deal with issues like the rape gangs and you force them to adhere to UK law and respect our laws, our culture and our religion, they gradually set up their own cultures and with their own laws, as I said. And there are large tracts of the country now where we've got these Islamic settlements, which. Which effectively operate almost as a sort of parallel society. I don't know whether it's quite the same here, whether you've got the similar thing with the Somalis in Minnesota.

[Joe Rogan]

You do in Dearborn, Michigan. Dearborn, Michigan just had a gigantic Islamic parade where you just see tens of Thousands of people holding flags and walking on the street. And it's kind of crazy. It's crazy. And they've also. One of the things that's funny about Dearborn is all the progressives, it's very liberal place, they're like, welcome, welcome, everyone's welcome for all cultures. And as soon as they got into power, they banned the pride flag. That was the first thing they did.

[Steve Laws]

Well, I'm afraid they have quite strong views on that sort of thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh yeah, that's why Queers for Palestine is always hilarious. And then you see the meme Palestine for queers and it's throwing people off roofs.

[Steve Laws]

It's like the chap who runs our Green Party is a gay Jew. So I mean, again, he's gonna have a problem if these guys get anywh near power. But that doesn't seem to put the progressives off. They still seem to.

[Joe Rogan]

But this is what's crazy, is that their society is complete, like Islamic society is completely patriarchal. The women are absolutely second class citizens. They have completely different laws for how the women can dress. What happens to the woman if someone has sex with, if someone has. First of all, if they commit adultery, they could be killed.

[Steve Laws]

Stoned. Stoned to death.

[Joe Rogan]

To death. Yeah. And I want.

[Steve Laws]

It's all.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a horrible video where a father did it to his daughter.

[Steve Laws]

Yes. You do get these killings, honor killings, honor killings.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. Or brothers. The brother will kill the daughter of the daughter, shame the family. It's like, hey guys, how are you progressive when you're supporting this? And it's because the concept of not being racist, not being called racist, the fear of that is so strong, they're willing to adopt all sorts of things that are the complete antithesis of everything they believe in.

[Steve Laws]

Well, in the uk, I don't know if you have it here, but the MeToo movement, it fascinates me that they never seem to say anything about these, what I call clannish tribal cultures who have a completely different view of women. And to your point again in our report, a woman, if she accuses in Pakistan a man of rape, she has to have four male witnesses who actually have to witness and swear that they've seen her being penetrated by the rapist. And you've actually got women in prison because if she can't prove that she's been raped under those rules, then she can be sent to prison. And there are many women languishing in Pakistani prisons for that very reason. And this is the sort of extraordinary cultural oil and water which Just doesn't mixture well.

[Joe Rogan]

It's also the mental gymnastics that you have to have to accept that as a part of Britain and because you're progressive is really crazy. It just shows how these ideologies, these cult like ideologies can completely defy logic, completely defy common sense and just you have a set of rules that you're supposed to adhere to. If you deviate from those rules, you're a racist. You don't want to be a racist. Right. Then everyone's welcome.

[Steve Laws]

As you say, it's honor killings, it's tribal. Your first loyalty is to your tribe and your family, not your host country who's actually got their own laws. There are all sorts of hadith rulings which they can, they can use to justify it. I mean for instance, if they rape a, a white girl, that doesn't count in their, in their view of life as adultery. So they are effectively taught that a girl who doesn't dress as they would dress is, is meat to be abused. And, and they have these, they have these extraordinary sort of cultural views that are completely incompatible in my view with a society like ours where, you know, we are a matriarchal society which respects women. I think we have grown to respect women. Obviously they had, they've now got an omnipotent position within our society, certainly in the uk, I'm sure it's true here too. And quite right, they, they play a part in our society. They're a very, very important part of everything. But again, under, you know, the Islamic code, I think that the Muslims are frightened of female sexuality. It's all there. And as you know, you get fgm, Female genital mutilation. So these cultures, I think, Joe, and to your point, are just incompatible unless you have a very strong government which basically protects its electorate from any subversive behavior which is not compatible with our values.

[Joe Rogan]

You keep using the term meat. Is that how they actually refer to it? As

[Steve Laws]

that's how they consider it? Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

What do they say? Like how are they?

[Steve Laws]

Well, that's, it's, it's in our report that, that's, that there was actually, I think it was, I think it was.

[Joe Rogan]

Is it a translation of.

[Steve Laws]

I think Thomas Jefferson, actually it's in our report. Asked the Barbary pirates about the way in which they treated their slaves and their women. That was particularly slaves. They just also slavery is accepted within Islamic countries. So I think they have their own codes, they have their own terms of reference. And there is a quote in there. I'd have to look at the report to give it to you. But where one of them does liken white girls not dressing as Muslim girls dress, and he does liken it to meat Jesus. And, you know, that is an analogy he used. So, I mean, yeah, I think that's what they think.

[Joe Rogan]

This. So this rape gang inquiry report that you have just released, the number, I want you to say it because it sounds so crazy. If I say it, people, it's going to sound wrong. What, the number of people that were victims, the estimate.

[Steve Laws]

Well, we've estimated that a minimum of a quarter of a million rapes have taken place. It's probably much, much more, Joe, much, much more. Because we published in here, I think there's a list of 147 parts of the UK where this is happening. Now, the government tries to tell you it's happening in Rochdale, Oldham, you know, one or two Bradford, one or two centers. And that's why their statutory inquiry, the terms of reference to that, have now been downgraded. So they make it look as if it's not a systemic problem, but just a little local problem, which it isn't. So we've listed here and they're all in here, the places where we know it's happening from our rope gang inquiry. But every time we publish this, Joe, I get people emailing us or sending us messages on social media to say, what about Red Roof in Cornwall? What about it's happening here, it's happening here, it's happening here. So I think it's incredibly widespread and there's other people who've corroborated that quarter of a million figure. That's an incredibly conservative figure. You can't be exact, because the state is not collecting the data, which it should be doing. And we've been lobbying in Parliament to make sure that the state's collection of the data improves and then we can actually see the extent of the problem and you can actually pinpoint it in the same way that we've done it in this report. So this is. I think it's linked to organized crime. I think it's linked to the drug trade. I'm pretty sure it's linked to the drug trade and obviously it's linked to prostitution. So, as usual, with an evil like this, and you've got girls who are transported round in the back of pickups and in cages. And at our rape gang inquiry, we had examples of girls who were raped by dogs and filmed, either anally raped or vaginally raped and literally watched filmed. And a lot of it's about servitude and about, you know, there's other stories in here about women having to lick the face, the feet of their rapists. It's about power, it's about servitude, and it's about the fact that Muslim men are taught to believe that they are superior not only to women, but they're superior to people like yourself and myself, who are considered to be, if you like, the infidels. And their job is to effectively spread Islam and effectively punish the infidel. And as you probably know, in the Crusades, if you lost to Saladin and you were a Knights Templar, a crusader, you had two choices. You either converted to Islam or they killed you. And in the case of a lot of these girls, a lot of them were made pregnant, they were impregnated, and they then had to convert to Islam. Some of them were trafficked to Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, other parts of the world. So look, I mean, this, this is a massive national scandal and I, I'm hoping, now I'm an mp, we've written this report and this should stimulate debate. I, we send a copy of this on a PDF to every MP and we're going to send this printed copy to all of them as well, because everybody in power should look at this and they should start to correct it immediately.

[Joe Rogan]

You use the term, the term is used. Rape. Gang. Why are you saying gang? And this is an organized practice.

[Steve Laws]

Yes, yes.

[Joe Rogan]

So it's not as simple as Islamic men are raping poor white girls. It's that they go out in gangs specifically for this purpose.

[Steve Laws]

These are properly organized gangs who are grooming and abusing young girls as young as 10 or 11 and then literally trafficking them around the country. We know that from, from, from, from the testimonies we've had. So originally when I went into Parliament, I was, I was later elected late. So I was elected in, in July 24th. So at the tender age of 67. So I, so I, I, we, we heard them being referred to as Asian grooming gangs, which I think is a misnomer because it's unfair on, for instance, the Japanese or other, other, other Asian cultures who don't do this. So when we, thanks to Elon Musk, we actually did, and as you're quite right, thanks to him giving us a free speech platform and Facebook's thankfully followed as well. So he's led the charge through his purchase of what was Twitter. So when I got into, I gave a speech in Parliament where I didn't, I said, they're not Asian. Grooming gangs. I'm going to call them what they are. They're Pakistani Muslim rape gangs. So I said this in Parliament so Jamie will drag it up if he goes on to the. You know, because everything goes into Hansard. And I gave this speech and it caused shock in, In. In. In the House of Commons. Now, look, I'm. I'm not the smartest kid on the block, but what I do in Parliament is I tell the truth. So, you know, I'm only interested in telling the truth and getting to the truth and changing the way in which we govern. That's what I've gone into Parliament for. You know, I haven't gone into this. I give my parliamentary salary to charity. You know, I'm a reasonably successful person who's lived his life. I've been chairman of a football club. I don't know if you're interested in Premier League football, but I was chairman of Southampton, so I built the stadium for Southampton. I used to play competitive hockey and I built up the youth academy at Southampton. I loved. The best day of my life was when we got to the cup final in 2003. We lost 1 nil to Arsenal, but it was the most amazing experience for everybody. So, look, I'm not doing this because I want necessarily to be doing it. I'm doing it because somebody's got to do it. And if we're going to change Britain, we've got to get the public to buy into what we're doing. And as I say, I'm not a classic politician. I'm not saying you've got to vote for me. I'm saying that we've got to Change Britain by 29 or. I think the country, from what I can see, is in terminal decline. So I sit on the Public Accounts Committee. I see the waste, I see the unaccountability. I see the way in which the Civil Service does not serve the people which it's supposed to serve. I see our debt rising to nearly 100% of GDP. I see massive mass misallocation of procurement on our weapons. I see fraud in the judiciary. I see all the things.

[Joe Rogan]

That sounds like you're talking about America.

[Steve Laws]

Well, I'm talking about Britain a moment,

[Joe Rogan]

Joe, but I think it's a widespread problem.

[Steve Laws]

Well, I actually think America under Joe Biden probably was as bad as that. And if you look at what Elon and the boys uncovered with. With US aid and. And all of the misallocation of taxpayer funds all over the world, a lot of it to England, some of it came to woke. Woke causes in England. So look, whoever the architects of this are, whether it's the World Economic Forum, whoever they are, whether it's the Bilderbergers, whether it's the Council on Foreign Relations, whether it's whatever malign influence is trying to do this, we. We have to collectively try and reverse it. So I'm saying to people, if you want, I will do my damnedest to reverse it. You know, I've run multiple businesses, I was in the City of London for 20 years, so I know about finance and I will commit to doing whatever I can to reverse this for the British people. But they've got to buy into it, Joe. They've got to buy into it.

[Joe Rogan]

Are there people that are in denial that this is happening, that this rape gang problem is real?

[Steve Laws]

Oh, without a shadow of a doubt. Labor.

[Joe Rogan]

And what do they say?

[Steve Laws]

Well, Labour just tries to look the other way.

[Joe Rogan]

But when confronted, when confronted by the numbers, what is their response?

[Steve Laws]

Well, we've been demanding a statutory inquiry and in the end we crowdfunded this.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. What is their response to that?

[Steve Laws]

Well, their response to this has been pretty muted, to be frank. I mean, the BBC haven't covered it at all, really. A national monopolistic broadcaster paid for by a compulsory fee have not covered this as a. As a matter of public interest, nor of sky, nor. Nor properly of the Daily Telegraph. GB News have covered a tiny. Patrick Christis covered one evening of it. Now, this is a massive national scandal that deserves complete. A complete and utter airing.

[Joe Rogan]

How does the BBC justify not. Not discussing this?

[Steve Laws]

Well, the BBC is part of our problem, Joe. So to your point about, you know, the Democrats, the BBC is a deeply malign organization. So it was set up to inform, educate and entertain. And it was set up by a man called Reith. And Reith was a highly principled man. And I think at the time it was set up in the 20s, it probably did have a role. But in the digital age, where most of the young people no longer watch their news on the BBC, they get their news from whatever their favorite news channel is, whether it's Breitbart, whoever, whoever they go and get it from, they get it from somewhere else. But if you want to watch sport or you want to, you know, basically have your TV, you have to pay the TV license.

[Joe Rogan]

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Summer is great, isn't it? It's the perfect season for adventures, but it can also be pretty exhausting, juggling chaotic schedules and trying to make the most of summer. That's why it's important to take a moment for you. Go out for a weekend without planning anything and just have fun or relax at home or if you're really struggling, try therapy with better help. With a network of over 30,000 quality therapists, they can connect you with the right one, just like they have for millions already across the globe. Together, you can work out what you need and how you can enjoy summer to the fullest. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer. Find support in therapy. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] jre that's better if you h e l p.com jre there's still a problem that I'm sure exists in England, just as exists in America. There's a certain subset of our society, a large percentage of our society, particularly older people, that things are not legitimate unless they're discussed in corporate media. And that if it's not in the New York Times, if it's not on cnn, if it's not, you know, fill in the blank, then it can't be completely legitimate. It has to be a fringe thing, it has to be a conspiracy thing. They still need these sort of legacy establishments to give them the news because that has been the way they grew up, that has been how they were trained. And in their mind, they don't understand the Internet completely, they don't go on Twitter. And so all that stuff to them is just. It's just too fringe. So that's always going to be a problem. And if someone like the BBC doesn't cover this stuff, for a lot of people that are woefully ignorant, they can still kind of claim that ignorance and dismiss it because the BBC isn't covering it.

[Steve Laws]

That's exactly right. I mean, that's a very good summary because the BBC historically was totally trusted and their news bulletins were designed, as I say, to be impartial completely. And being a public sector broadcaster, their job was to cover matters like this and create debate. But as we know, monopolies go bad. I mean, monopolies, in my view, are generally a bad thing, particularly in the digital age where, you know, thanks to Elon Musk and what he did with X, I think he has released free speech. I think he has returned some sort of semblance of people's ability to be able to force debate without being bullied by a monopoly like the BBC. So if I ever get near power, I will responsibly defund the BBC. As one of the first things I do, I Think the BBC is dripping poison into the veins of Britain every day.

[Joe Rogan]

What other examples of what the BBC is doing do you think is dripping poison?

[Steve Laws]

Well, I think a lot of their coverage is not objective. It's woke. I mean, they're into all this dei. They're into, obviously, the lgbtq. They're into all of the things which I think, as we said earlier, probably came from this democrat period, but it's been happening for a long time. I think if you look at the Labour Party, again, I don't know if you've ever heard of the Fabian Society.

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Steve Laws]

So the Fabian Society is. Was set up in the. In. In the 1880s, and it was basically most of the labor front bench, and most of the Labor Party are members of the Fabian Society. So the Fabian Society. George Bernard Shaw was a member of the Fabian Society. You'll have heard of George Bernard Short. So he. It's the most extraordinary organization that their emblem is a wolf in sheep's clothing. As if. As if. As if that doesn't tell you what they're doing.

[Joe Rogan]

That's their emblem. So can I see what that looks like?

[Steve Laws]

That's their emblem. It's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Joe Rogan]

Fabian Society.

[Steve Laws]

The Fabian Society.

[Joe Rogan]

I need to see that.

[Steve Laws]

You should have a look at that.

[Joe Rogan]

I might have to get a T shirt.

[Steve Laws]

Should I tell you what else they were?

[Joe Rogan]

I need a T shirt.

[Steve Laws]

Should I tell you what else they were? They were eugenicists originally.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa.

[Steve Laws]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

When? Well, how far back?

[Steve Laws]

Bernard Short. George Bernard Short is eugenicists.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at that. That is damn crazy.

[Steve Laws]

Well, everyone should look at the Fabian study because that runs deep through the veins of.

[Joe Rogan]

That is damn crazy.

[Steve Laws]

What do you think of that?

[Joe Rogan]

That is damn crazy. So, ladies and gentlemen, if you're just listening to this, this Fabian Society coat of arms is really a black wolf that has a sheep's body strapped on top of its back and it's, like, covering its body. This is insane. That's crazy. What a complete disdain for anybody else's intelligence. Like, they're not even trying to hide it. They're just like.

[Steve Laws]

They're all members. The front bench are all members of the Fabian Society. So.

[Joe Rogan]

So that coat of arms is.

[Steve Laws]

Keir Starmer is also a member.

[Joe Rogan]

I need a T shirt. Jamie, please order it.

[Steve Laws]

You want. You want. You want to hold anything? You want a Fabian Society T shirt?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, just for a goof. I think it'd be hilarious, but no.

[Steve Laws]

So that's. That runs through the Labour Party. So that's all part of It. So I think the agenda has been to your point. They infiltrated our education system. And, you know, I'm proud of our history. I mean, Britain stopped the slave trade. It cost us a fortune. We did it almost unilaterally. And, you know, we, I think, on the whole, have been a force for good in the world. Not bad. I'm proud to say that I've studied a lot of history. I think there are many other cultures, probably the Belgians and the French, who are far more brutal than us with their colonies. So I think we've tended to leave a legacy where we've tried to instill the rule of law. Look at India. Look at a lot of the other countries that we were involved with. They're now flourishing because of the, I think, the structures that we left in place. And it's very sad to watch us almost turning in on ourselves and having left the legacy in other countries, we ourselves have lost sight of what. Of what we should be doing.

[Joe Rogan]

It's just. It's really extraordinary seeing the perspective of a lot of young people that are very impressionable that come out of universities and have an utter complete disdain for these successful societies. And instead of looking at these successful societies and saying, well, yeah, people were really terrible in the past, but this is a pretty good example of how people should be treated equally today. No, it's not perfect, but it's progressing in a better direction than it was in the past. Right. Instead, they look to the past and everything is built on this horrible history of outrageous, atrocious acts. And therefore it must be punished currently. And all the people that benefited from it, specifically white people, need to be cast out. They need to be silenced. Multiculturalism is the only way to go. Complete open borders. Like, the way they look at things is like, how do you think these countries got so good? Like, what do you. What do you think is about America or about England, about any of these countries that leads them to be where they are today? Well, it's a long history of progress, a long history. And along the way, yeah, like, especially when you go back hundreds of years ago, people were fucking terrible. They were terrible everywhere. You know, humans are just getting better at being people, like, pretty recently. But to throw it all out and abandon it and to think that socialism is going to fix you, like, do you guys read anything? There's not a single example of that not turning to tyranny. And their. Their take on it is always. It hasn't been done correctly. And that is so wild that people are still willing to Swallow that. And the only thing that makes sense is they've been indoctrinated through universities to think this way. Because nowhere in the real world do you think that equality of outcome ever makes any sense. Because everybody realizes somewhere along the line, when you get your first job, when you're a kid, when you're going through school, when you're playing sports, there's not equality of effort. There's never equality of effort. And there's always some people that want to put in more effort and they're put in more thought and more focus, and they get further. And you know, oh, well, they're fucking over all these other people. Are you sure that's everything? Because it seems like it's not. And it seems like as soon as you remove any incentive to succeed, then you don't have any of the amazing stuff that you have around you all the time. The reason why you have beautiful televisions and Starlink and all that. It's capitalism. It's that you have to incentivize people to create these things.

[Steve Laws]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It doesn't mean the only way to do it is to fuck other people over. That's not correct. It can be done correctly. It can be done humanely, it can be done wisely. You could vote with your dollars. You could, you know, boycott companies that do things that you don't think are ethical. There's all sorts of wonderful ways that capitalism could be used and you can sort of influence things in the right direction. But to throw it all out and say, we've got to go socialism, like, oh, boy, I can't believe people are buying that. I just. That, to me, is one of the real problems with not allowing conservative voices in universities. And that these universities, especially in the United States, are a lot of. Especially like in sociology, psychology, overwhelmingly liberal. Like, surely there's gotta be some historians out there that are conservative and they would have a different perspective. And it might be good to have diversity of opinion as well as diversity of national origin, as well as diversity of gender, as well as diversity of sexual orientation. Yeah, all that stuff's great, but also diversity of opinion. Like, the only way to know whether or not this person's making sense is to have someone who completely disagrees that has a better point go up against them and you watch them duke it out. And as soon as you silence all that because students don't feel safe or because, you know, this is promoting X, Y and Z. This person's a Nazi. Oh, they're a Nazi. We can't let them on There as soon as you do that, you, you ruin the whole thing that a university is supposed to be doing. Supposed to be preparing young minds for discourse and for communicating and for figuring out the world on their own. They're eventually going to be independent and dependent entirely on their own actions and decisions and go out there in the world, figure out your way, arm them correctly. And the way to do that is to expose them to all sorts of different competing ideas. The idea that that was ever accepted to be shut down in this country, especially in America, is massive failure of the education system. Just massive. If you think that someone has bad points, come up with better points and let them duke it out and don't pull fire alarms and don't silence them, don't scream and protest and throw things at them, Communicate. This is what. And anybody who doesn't do that should be shunned.

[Steve Laws]

I agree.

[Joe Rogan]

If you, if you're one of those people that says no, you can't talk to Nazis like shun them. Shun. They are the enemy of thinking. They are the enemy of progress. They are the enemy of finding out what's right and what's wrong. And the only way we find that out is we communicate.

[Steve Laws]

Free speech.

[Joe Rogan]

Free speech.

[Steve Laws]

Well, free speech and a degree of Darwinism. You have to have a. What we have in the UK now is, I always say, reverse Darwinian theory. And again at schools now in my day, I'm lucky. We like to win. To win was good. To win fairly in a proper game of hockey or rugby or whatever was great. But now in schools, winning is, is considered to be bad. So everybody needs to have an opportunity to be treated the same in sports. Often, often in sport, to win, to be seen as a, as a competitive winner.

[Joe Rogan]

You guys don't have wrestling over there.

[Steve Laws]

We don't have wrestling. I know you do.

[Joe Rogan]

You do. It's a real problem.

[Steve Laws]

Cage fighting and stuff.

[Joe Rogan]

No, but I mean wrestling, just wrestling as a sport, just wrestling for high school and college. It's like wrestlers understand meritocracy as good as any human being alive because there's no way to make it unless you work hard.

[Steve Laws]

But isn't this the battle, Jay, the age old battle between individualism and collectivism? Yes, because the collective likes to curb the individual. I like to foster the individual. And I think what the state fears most is, is highly successful, independent minded people who are capable of putting their point of view and discussing it with each other. So what they try and do through the taxation in the uk, what they're doing is they're taxing to your point, people who contribute, who work hard and there are still a lot of people who fight very hard to feed their families. They're proud, they don't want to be part of this welfarism. You know, they want to provide and they work hard. But the state puts everything in their way. All the regulations, the rules, the taxes, everything is, everything is, the force is not with them. And that's got to be wrong. I mean, I think what you need is a lot of successful individual family businesses, communities which are self sufficient communities that respect each other and effectively can have this debate with each other. You get at the truth. And I think as a result of that, most of the best inventions have come from, you know, the uk, the us, from the Anglo Saxon world where individualism, when it's allowed to flourish, does a lot of good for mankind. And to your point, I, I think this is what's been undermined by these, what I call central planners.

[Joe Rogan]

And a lot of these great inventions in America have come from people that immigrated legally from other countries because they appreciated what America stood for and they really wanted to make something happen and they couldn't do it wherever they were.

[Steve Laws]

Well, the extraordinary thing in the UK is we've got a lot of support from people who are immigrants into the uk. They came to Britain because they respected our structures. And what they want is, they want structure, they don't want to see the country.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, legally immigrants in America have the same perspective. Same legal immigrants in America are pretty overwhelmingly against the whole open border idea because it took was so hard for them to become an American citizen. It's a very proud moment for them to do it.

[Steve Laws]

Like a lot of young people, a lot of support from young people who are, again, young people are online.

[Joe Rogan]

See this is the thing. So young people are much more, I want to say informed, but at least aware of the issue. They're much more aware of things than older people that are just again reading the newspaper and watching television.

[Steve Laws]

But don't you think, as it may be the same here in Britain, a lot of the wealth is tied up in what I call the baby boomers. So I'm a sort of tail end boomer because I'm 68, but the sort of bulk of them are probably 70 to 90 and a lot of the pension wealth is held there and a lot of the damage that's been done to our financial markets has come from aversion to risk. Risk is a good thing in my opinion. So people need to take risk. Risk, you Know, the entrepreneur takes risk and he gets reward if he gets it right. But if you tax him into oblivion, he doesn't take the risk. And what's happened in Britain is the baby boomers, the wealth's all locked up there. They want to see their retirement through safely. And not enough money is cascading down to the young people to be able to build their lives in the same way that the boomers were given a chance to make money in this very.

[Joe Rogan]

When you see not enough money is cascading down. Like how. So what's the bottleneck?

[Steve Laws]

Well, the money's all locked up with these old baby boomers, and they're more concerned with their pensions and their retirement than they are with generating an ongoing wealth chain, which gives an opportunity for the young to be involved.

[Joe Rogan]

So you. Meaning they're not starting businesses?

[Steve Laws]

No, very much not.

[Joe Rogan]

They're just holding onto their money.

[Steve Laws]

They're holding on to their money.

[Joe Rogan]

So that's just. That's an England thing.

[Steve Laws]

In England, definitely. I mean, I think it's a big issue. I don't know whether it's an issue here. Is it an issue here?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, there's certainly an issue here with young people feeling like the system is completely rigged. Cost of housing is through the roof, rent is through the roof, groceries are more expensive. Inflation here is a giant problem. It's a giant problem for people that are struggling. We were just looking at something the other day on the Internet where it was talking about a number. A number from. Was it like 2007 or 2008 or something like that? There was like $225,000, and it's $450,000 in today. That's crazy. That's like 20 years ago, like for. To have something double in 20 years. And you just think about how many people that are coming up that just feel like AI is going to take all their jobs so they don't know what to do. And now they're in student debt because you guys have free education over there, which is a wonderful thing. I mean, I completely support that idea. But in America, these kids get saddled down with debt that they can't escape.

[Steve Laws]

In England, we don't have free education in England. In Scotland, they do, because Scotland has free education. We did used to have it. You're quite right.

[Joe Rogan]

When did it go away?

[Steve Laws]

Well, now students have to take out loans. And this is another shocking.

[Joe Rogan]

I thought you guys had free health care and free education.

[Steve Laws]

We have. What do you call it? Free health care, assuming you can get a doctor now because most people now are having to source their own medical treatment because it takes you so long to get an operation or to get a doctor's appointment. Although the sort of health service was set up post war to provide free health care when it becomes incredibly inefficient. People have to seek their own care, otherwise they don't get treated. But look, I think with student debt now, when did it change?

[Joe Rogan]

Where university education.

[Steve Laws]

It's changed. So now what year was this? Well, it's been changed for a long time. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So my oldest son is 35, so he took out a student loan and it was less than. And then the fees shot up. So my.

[Joe Rogan]

What's it like for Oxford? What's a typical. What, how much?

[Steve Laws]

Well, they run up. Students will run up debt of. In the UK now it's not uncommon to run up a debt of £60,000.

[Joe Rogan]

So it's very similar to what's going on in America.

[Steve Laws]

£60,000 and they're charged the most hideous rate of interest on it.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you have laws in terms of bankruptcy over there?

[Steve Laws]

We do have bankruptcy laws, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But do you have bankruptcy student debt?

[Steve Laws]

You won't be bankrupted over student debt though, because the student debt, they just accrue the interest. If you go and work in a foreign country, often you don't have to pay the student debt back. I think it's a 30 year liability. But once you start working, then the student debt debt organization will take interest and principal out of your salary.

[Joe Rogan]

In America, if you go bankrupt, they'll forgive credit card debt, all sorts of other debt, but not student loan. It's the one loan that you cannot ever be forgiven from. In fact, people who have Social Security in America, their Social Security gets docked because they owe student loans.

[Steve Laws]

Is that right? I didn't know that.

[Joe Rogan]

It's crazy. Imagine you're at the end of your life, you're living on Social Security and they're taking pieces of it for an education that cleared it and help you out.

[Steve Laws]

Well, I don't know about you, but in England we've got these ridiculous courses in sort of humanities and sort of things that are completely abstruse.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Steve Laws]

And. And these, these, these kids go and do the. These, these what I call bullshit degrees and at the end of the day they come out of it with a load of debt. Right. And no real skills.

[Joe Rogan]

No skills in a. And a completely ideologically captured mind.

[Steve Laws]

Very much so, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's. That's. And there's not a lot of other alternatives. It's like most universities are left leaning. And that's the issue that these kids have. Even if you're from a conservative family or if kids grow up a certain way, send them off to college and they're very impressionable and they're going to get talked down to by a professor who's a communist, who's never had a real job in his life. And he seems so smart and he's very smug and he insults you if you disagree with him. And he is the ruler of the classroom. And everybody, like, like little kids, they just give in to this guy's ideas. The next thing you know, you're, you're organizing on school grounds and you're doing all the same things that the other communists are doing. And you're, you're part of the team. Hey, we're a nice. We're gonna fix the world. And you don't realize how ridiculous it is until like, maybe you're 35 and you have a job and then you have a family and you're like, what the are we doing? Like, what is this?

[Steve Laws]

It does change, doesn't it?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, 100%.

[Steve Laws]

But all this is the worst expression.

[Joe Rogan]

Show me a young man. Who, who's that? Who quoted that? Who was that quote from? Show me a young man who's not a li. Was it liberal or is it progressive or whatever it is? Some. Show me a young man who's not a liberal and I'll show you a man without a heart. Show me an old man who's not conservative and I'll show you a man without a brain.

[Steve Laws]

Yeah. No, well, I don't know who said that, but I. It's, it's a common, It's a common saying.

[Joe Rogan]

What's fun.

[Steve Laws]

I would say that it's, it's a truism.

[Joe Rogan]

Churchill.

[Steve Laws]

Was it Churchill?

[Joe Rogan]

There you go. One of your people.

[Steve Laws]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Brilliant and, and accurate. And it doesn't. Being conservative doesn't mean you're not kind, silly. It's just recognition of human nature. And you can't, you can't reward people for not putting in effort because then they will find ways to not put in effort. You can't reward people for being a quote unquote victim. And I don't mean a real victim of a crime. I mean victimized by society, victimized by circumstance, victimized. You can't weaponize that because people will cling to it. People love excuses. Anybody who does sports, you played hockey. People love excuses. Not today. My back hurts today. I don't feel up to it today. I'm a little tired. I can't do the final lap. People love excuses. And when you weaponize that and you give people incentives to be excused, you give excuses and then you put people on their heels like, whoa, I don't want to appear that I'm insensitive. Let's help you out. And then all of a sudden, you've got a whole swath of society that has carte blanche over your tax dollars for nonsense.

[Steve Laws]

Well, this is obviously what's happened in the uk. When I was brought up again, competition was a good thing. You know, if you. If you felt a bit rough, you just carried on. You didn't whinge, you didn't moan. You expected to fight for things. If you had a setback, you didn't immediately go and cry into your beer. You basically got on with it.

[Joe Rogan]

We need to teach people that it's character building. You're gonna have rough days, and you should cherish those rough days, because from them you will grow. You will grow from your rough days. The down times are the good ones because those downtimes really give you the motivation and the real firepower to get out of whatever situation you're in and improve your life.

[Steve Laws]

And it's from adversity comes. Comes success. Yes, I think comes character, for sure. Character and success.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, character for sure. I mean, it doesn't exist without some sort of adversity.

[Steve Laws]

But I do think. I think the young were also badly affected by the COVID By the response to Covid. Joe and I think you and I share something in common. I'm a pureblood. I haven't. I didn't have Pure Blood's hilarious. I didn't have those. I didn't have those injections. I wouldn't go anywhere near them.

[Joe Rogan]

How did you get away with that in the uk?

[Steve Laws]

Well, I used to go to Australia a lot, so. Because I have some businesses in Perth in Western Australia. I love those old rocks in Western Australia. You know, the mining, the sort of Wild west and Kalgoorlie and places like that, you know, which have got a huge historical connection to sort of gold prospecting and stuff. So I stopped going. I stopped traveling because it was very difficult to travel. But I. I don't know about you. I found the lockdown profoundly concerning. I thought. I thought things that I thought were not the norm. I was losing everything that made sense.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Steve Laws]

And, you know, there were things happening that I didn't think could ever happen in Britain. You know, the state literally took over and it frightened people into submission, same as America. And the young people suffered most because, you know, they didn't have the opportunity to socialize and to. To your point, discuss ideas and. And. And. And get at the truth. They. They were literally locked up. Everything was online. It wasn't. It wasn't right. The whole thing was completely wrong.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Imagine if you're in high school in America and you're in California your entire senior year, you're at home, you graduate, you can't even go to a graduation because it's too dangerous.

[Steve Laws]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The whole thing was madness.

[Steve Laws]

Well, Sweden got it right. Anders Taylor in Sweden, he was a great man, very brave man, and he got that right.

[Joe Rogan]

And, boy, was there a lot of pushback. It was amazing how many people were willing to do the work of the government, how many citizens were willing to enforce these ideas. It was really shocking. It was shocking to watch how many people became lemmings, how many people just stepped in line?

[Steve Laws]

We had people ratting on each other.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Oh, we did it because people were warding people in Los Angeles.

[Steve Laws]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They were giving them financial rewards for telling on their neighbors that we're having parties.

[Steve Laws]

That's what happened in England. I have a tennis court in the middle of nowhere. So I used to say, come up and play tennis, because it's ridiculous to stop you playing tennis outside. I mean, absolutely mad. Anyway, they used to come up and play tennis, and nobody can see it, but if they played it in the village, then people would report each other.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. In California, we had people report on us because this desk is not six feet wide.

[Steve Laws]

Seriously?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they also said we were talking close to each other without masks because there was a bunch of people that saw people walk into the studio and we shook their hand, so they were ratting on us. And so we had to put a sign up in the front door of the studio, and we had to have a bag of masks. A whole bag of masks. Do we have to have hand sanitizer, too? Did we have that, too? I think so. I think we had to have hand sanitizer for a while at least. But we were getting ratted on because this desk is too close. So it's not. This desk is only 5ft wide, so it's no social distancing.

[Steve Laws]

It's pathetic. Joe isn't Was Nonsen.

[Joe Rogan]

It was so crazy. The whole thing made no sense, and it completely changed a lot of people's ideas about trusting experts and trusting authority. So many people thought that the health experts in this country were literally just trying to make people healthy. And you didn't realize, like, oh, no, no, no, no. They're trying to prop up the pharmaceutical drug cartel, and they're trying to make as much money as humanly possible. And the only way to do that is to force compliance. And so they will do whatever they can. They will keep you from flying, they'll keep you from driving, they'll keep you from going to school. You can't work if you have more than 100 employees. Everyone has to get vaccinated. They were doing crazy shit where you're like, you guys are really going for it. And it worked. It worked for quite a while. But, boy, did it ruin young people's perspective of authority completely. They don't trust anybody anymore. And with good reason.

[Steve Laws]

Well, I think it damaged them most. Again, it's another negative for them. Yeah, our National Health Service was forcing people to have the injection. You had to work in the National Health Service. You had to have the jabs.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And it didn't work.

[Steve Laws]

Didn't work.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Steve Laws]

Actually, worse than that, Joe, it didn't work. Created major medical problems.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Steve Laws]

And I don't personally think we've seen the end of it yet. So I've got a lot of friends who are fit. They ended up having myocarditis, having strokes, having heart attacks. And at the end of the day,

[Joe Rogan]

everybody knows somebody that has a horrible reaction to it. Yeah, everyone. And to people that say they don't. I've had conversations with people. I don't know anybody who had a side effect. I'm like, fuck you for lying. There's no way that's possible. Unless you are the luckiest person in the world and you have an extremely small social circle. And out of that social circle, no one had a bad reaction, which is very unlikely unless that's true. Like, you're just lying. And you're lying because you probably were supportive of the vaccine initially, and you don't wanna seem like you were on the wrong side of things.

[Steve Laws]

Well, I lost friends. I don't know about you. Cause I. People said I hadn't been vaccinated, and therefore I was a risk to their mom or their dad or their granny.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I lost a bunch of people

[Steve Laws]

and I lost friends like that. But, I mean, in countries like India, you know, they didn't have the jab. They used Ivermectin to a far greater extent, and that. That was just as effective.

[Joe Rogan]

I know.

[Steve Laws]

I think I used to treat my. It's A wormer. It's ivermectin. I used to treat my cattle with ivermectin, but it worked well. And there were other, I think, treatments which worked far too.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you know what happened to me in America over ivermectin? Are you aware of that?

[Steve Laws]

No, no.

[Joe Rogan]

Cnn, like, for days, was running this hit piece on me saying that I was taking horse dewormer for Covid.

[Steve Laws]

It is a worm.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it is. But it's also, you know, it's great for river blindness and dengue fever. I mean, it's won the Nobel Prize for use in human beings. And they were claiming on CNN that I was taking veterinary medicine. And they. Not only that, but they changed the color of my face. So they took a video. I was supposed to do a concert with Dave Chappelle that weekend in Nashville, and I had to make a video saying, I'm sorry, but we have to cancel it because I got Covid. So I said I had Covid. Like, two days ago I was sick, but I'm fine now. And I explained all the stuff that my doctor threw the kitchen sink at it. We took all these different things. And one of the things that I mentioned was ivermectin. And because of me mentioning that, I also said monoclonal antibodies, Z Pak. I talked about all the different IV vitamins. I took a bunch of different stuff, and I got better quick. And they took the video and changed the color of my face to make me look green on CNN. CNN?

[Steve Laws]

Well, CNN's not a good. Not a good channel, is it?

[Joe Rogan]

I didn't know. I didn't know until I saw that. I was like, wow, this is crows. Like, do I have to sue cnn? Like, this is crazy.

[Steve Laws]

So is that Bill Hartzer? When you're talking about with the eyes, the worm in the eyes, Is that the Bill Hartzer you get from the water in Africa?

[Joe Rogan]

River blindness? I do not know what I think it's called.

[Steve Laws]

Bill Hartzer. I think I may be wrong.

[Joe Rogan]

You might be right. But I know they also. It's used to treat yellow fever, dengue fever. It's used to treat a bunch of different things. But, you know, it also has antiviral properties that have been demonstrated. Like, there's papers on it, and it's very cheap. Yes, but that's the problem. The problem is anybody can make it and you could buy it for, like, it's like a dollar a pill or something like that. It's nothing. Yeah, and that was the real problem is that, like, if you want to have the emergency use authorization of a vaccine that hasn't gone through the. The safety protocols in America, you have to have no other medications that are available that can treat it. So the reason why they went after me on CNN was because clearly I was doing okay. It was three days later, and I said, I never got vaccinated. So here's all the stuff that I took, and now I'm fine. And they went crazy. And it was this concerted campaign to try to destroy me. Neil Young took his music off Spotify

[Steve Laws]

because he said that he was unsound

[Joe Rogan]

on it, because he said that I was promoting vaccines, vaccine misinformation. And he probably believed that. He probably did believe that, but he didn't know what the he was talking about. He's just. He's another old boomer that just watches the news.

[Steve Laws]

Yes, he. I. I did used to like his music when I was in school, didn't you?

[Joe Rogan]

I still love it. Still. I still listen. I don't care. I mean, I even told a story when I made the video about how when I was at a Neil Young concert. Well, I was working at a Neil Young concert, actually, when I was 19, and that was the last day on the job because a riot broke out and I was like, I'm a huge Neil Young fan. Like, I don't care. He just doesn't know someone told him this or he really thinks he's doing the right thing by removing his music. Like, okay, but what you're doing is you're supporting this machine that is lying to people and telling people the only way to get through this is to get vaccinated. When, in fact, there's really, like, Uttar Pradesh in India, where it was just very low instances of COVID fatality. All of it was through Ivermectin. Yeah, they had amazing success with just Ivermectin.

[Steve Laws]

But again, I think the state knows that it's caused damage. I just don't think they can admit it at the moment.

[Joe Rogan]

No, they're not going to admit. They're never going to admit it. They just gloss over it and move on. And some of the same people that were promoting that shit on the news, they still deny it. They still deny. And they've lost debates like Chris Cuomo got destroyed by my buddy Dave Smith because of it. They're in denial of the things that they were actually saying.

[Steve Laws]

Yeah, it was like fluoride in water and folic acid in bread and all this stuff.

[Joe Rogan]

All that shit. It's all. Yeah, terrible.

[Steve Laws]

I mean, it's it's, it's sort of man getting high on his own supply, isn't it really?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's also a business. That's the real problem is that there's lobbies in this country that, you know, they, they want to continue making money the same way they've been making money.

[Steve Laws]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And one of the ways they do it in America is they advertise on the networks. So the pharmaceutical drug companies all advertise on all these networks and they're an enormous part of the advertising budget. I know in England that's not legal and it's only legal in America. And in New Zealand, those are the only two countries that allow pharmaceutical drug companies to advertise on television. But what it effectively does is it stops all criticism of any side effects. There's no stories on heart attacks, there's no stories on strokes, no stories on myocarditis. Now if they weren't advertising and then someone was making money off of something that was killing people. That's the news. Yeah, the news would be all over it. But they have effectively ruined their own reputation by turning a blind eye on something that everybody knows.

[Steve Laws]

But you think they're turning a blind eye. I think they know. I think they know, but they can't admit it.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, the people, the individuals most certainly must know someone who got something from COVID from the COVID shot. Someone, you know, someone who had a stroke. You know, someone who's got a neurological condition. You know, I know way too many people for you to not know anybody. I know I have two people that I know that have pacemakers now. Like there's, there's a lot of weird, horrible side effects that happen from that. If you don't know anybody that had one, I don't believe you.

[Steve Laws]

Well, I know loads. I mean my, my sister in law had myocarditis. I've had a friend, my best friend had a stroke literally a week after having, having the jab. People have had problems with heart arrhythmia.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Steve Laws]

All sorts of stuff. And there's been some issues with blood too.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Steve Laws]

So look, I think as usual, money probably goes to the root of it, Joe.

[Joe Rogan]

Absolutely.

[Steve Laws]

And we had something in the Britain called the nudge team, which basically was, I mean, how the government thought that was okay. It's a bit like when I was in football, people were hacking my phone and thought that was okay. But with the nudge team, it was to nudge people into accepting the lockdown. And it was effectively very clever manipulation of the population. So, look, I mean, I, I. You can't believe that the state thinks that's okay. But they did.

[Joe Rogan]

They did. Yeah, they did. And they did it in America for depending on which city you were in, to various extents, varying extents. California was bad. It was real bad. I mean, they. They closed down all the comedy clubs. They closed. They lost 70% of all the restaurants in Los Angeles. I mean, it's crazy.

[Steve Laws]

Yeah. A great place to live, California, though.

[Joe Rogan]

What's that?

[Steve Laws]

It's a great place to live, California.

[Joe Rogan]

That's why people still tolerate it. I mean, if California had the weather of Seattle, it'd be empty.

[Steve Laws]

It would. Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what I mean? It's like the reason why people are still there is because, God, it's so amazing and there's so many cool people there, and it's so nice and the weather's incredible and the views, and you could be at the ocean and then two hours later you're in the mountains. I mean, it's an amazing place.

[Steve Laws]

It's an amazing place filled with dumbasses. Yeah, it was socialist, Joe. Unfortunately, it's been permeated in socialism.

[Joe Rogan]

That and grifters, grifters pretending to be socialists. They're essentially those people with the wolf with the sheep wrapped around them.

[Steve Laws]

That's a large society. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a large portion of the government in Los Angeles and a large portion of the government in California in general. And the way, you know, this is how wealthy those fucking people are and how. It doesn't make sense how they're so wealthy. You're making how much a year and you're worth how much?

[Steve Laws]

Crime.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, crime. They're doing crime. One of the things that happened very recently is they just announced that the governor of California, one of the people on his staff, had been wearing a wire for over a year. Did you see that story, Jamie? What's that? I don't know what they got. Well, no, I don't know what they got either. But this lady had been. See if you can find it, what it says. But she had been wearing a wire. She's working for the Gavin Newsom Organization.

[Steve Laws]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And she was working for the administration, and she was wearing a wire for the FBI because they had been investigating him for. And this was during the Biden administration. They started this. So they started this in 2024. If they're investigating him, it's supposed to be like, they must know that some bad, real shit is going down. FBI infiltrated Gavin Newsom's inner circle by convincing Governor's ally to wear a wire. Yeah, not good.

[Steve Laws]

Not good. But I think it's the same in Chicago. You've got some pretty bad spots. San Francisco, I think, is not good.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a lot of people that are profiting off of this idea that the government should be taking care of everybody and you should be making all this money from taxes. And then California spent $24 billion on the homeless, and it just got worse. So now it's an industry. So now you have this homeless. Taking care of the homeless is now an industry. And there's people on the homeless industry board that are making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. And it's like, what are we doing?

[Steve Laws]

It's the same with compliance. It's the same with, as you say, dei. Yeah, there's a whole industry, an industry of people making vast amounts of money on, you know, compliance. Dei.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Steve Laws]

Basically wealth creation, which ultimately strips personal responsibility and tries to imbue everybody with a very sort of maligned philosophy, which is very damaging to the.

[Joe Rogan]

Under the guise of being inclusive.

[Steve Laws]

Correct.

[Joe Rogan]

And also, you're getting wealthy. How many people from these nonprofits are getting enormously wealthy? Like, this is insane. And that was one of the things that USAID clearly uncovered. I mean, I don't know if you've ever seen Mike Benz and some of his takes on.

[Steve Laws]

Yeah, it's shocking. I couldn't believe it.

[Joe Rogan]

There's so many hours of it. It's almost like there's too much information to digest. I could listen to, like an hour of it. I was like, I gotta stop, because I just don't know when this ends. I'm not even absorbing this. I'm just so flabbergasted by the extent of the corruption. The amount of money that's been gone to fraud and possibly waste over the years is just staggering.

[Steve Laws]

But it also went all over the world, didn't it? Oh, yeah. It was a philosophy, a poor philosophy that was being exported to other countries and particularly to Britain. I mean, we have a presenter called Rory Stewart. His wife was being funded by some of this stuff which got shut down. Did they shut the whole thing down?

[Joe Rogan]

They shut us down.

[Steve Laws]

Did they leave a remnant of it?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know exactly how much they've left, but essentially it's been shut down. Of course, if there was ever a Democrat that got elected president in 2028, it would probably start that bitch right back up, open the borders right back up, Business as usual.

[Steve Laws]

That would not be good, Jay.

[Joe Rogan]

No. It seems like there was a desire to move people into blue states and then eventually get them on social assistance and then get them to become citizens. And then you have guaranteed voters. Because you want to continue this, right? You want to continue living like this. Well, this is the way. And then you would just completely take over the presidential elections. And I think they were trying to do that. This is Elon's perspective, and I think he's right. And, you know, he's obviously much more aware of the problem in terms of, like, the extent that USAID was involved and these nonprofits and NGOs were involved. It seems like there was a concerted effort to do this, and it's disturbing.

[Steve Laws]

But again, a lack of respect for taxpayer funds completely disappointed what we have in the uk. I mean, we need your help at the moment. You've got. At least you're making a stab at returning to some form of normality for now.

[Joe Rogan]

But if we don't fuck it, I mean, we might have fucked it up by going to Iran. I mean, this war is not something anybody that's conservative wanted. Most people don't want it except supporters of Israel. They're the only people that seem to be thinking it's a good idea in this country. Most people are horrified by the idea because Trump was elected. One of the pillars that he stood for apparently was that he doesn't want any more wars, but he was.

[Steve Laws]

I came out against it on the basis for us, of rail politic, which is it wasn't in the interests of the British nation.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Steve Laws]

And I think again, most of these leaders should put the interests of their taxpaying public first. And there's only a reason to go to war if it's going to benefit you and I. It was difficult to see what the benefit was, although I think Iran is, is a sort of malevolent state and it is spreading very bad philosophy across. Obviously, you know, you've got Hezbollah in Lebanon and then we've got Hamas causing a problem. So I think they are a problem. But certainly from our point of view, I mean, you're the only country with a, with the ability to do anything about it. I mean, we had one warship which didn't work properly when it was sent out to help. So, I mean, goodness knows, we, you know, we've spent all our money on welfare and not enough money on defense. So, no, we need, we need help. And I think, to your point, Elon Musk has been, to my mind, incredibly helpful in restoring free speech because Starmer and these Fabians, Fabian Pabloist, Haldane, Society As I call them, they're sort of all, they're all, they've all got this malign philosophy. And I think what, what giving us free speech has done is it stopped them crushing the spirit of those people who do want to debate, who do want to discuss, who do want to get at the truth. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

But they've done so much to stop free speech with all these arrests. It's extraordinary because they've also, they've incentivized people to keep their mouth shut because no one wants to be in trouble.

[Steve Laws]

Well, it's two tier policing. You've got to your point about, you know, that the Palestinian marches are tolerated, whereas any form of Tommy Robinson March and Tommy Robinson in the uk, he's deeply disliked by the establishment. I give him credit for what he did again on the grooming gangs in 2003. He was warning about this in 2003 in Lewton.

[Joe Rogan]

Not only that, I remember people dismissing that in 2003 or 4. Whenever it was when I first heard about it, they were talking about him as he was just horrible, far right extremist.

[Steve Laws]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

And that he was making up these stories about these grooming gangs and rape gangs. I remember hearing that. I remember not knowing, like, what, what is it? What's accurate here? Like what's going on?

[Steve Laws]

Well, I think the, the accuracy is that he was right. The establishment didn't want to admit it because if we're right. Well, I am, I think we are right about their multicultural post war experiment. They realized it was failing because you can't justify the sort of abuse and grooming of the most vulnerable people in your society by people who've come into the country. They should be treated equally under the law. A rape is a rape. It doesn't matter whether it's perpetrated by somebody from a Muslim country or a Christian country. Rape is rape and it should be treated the same.

[Joe Rogan]

What would you do to stop this? Like imagine if you got into power right now, what would you do to put a stop to that?

[Steve Laws]

Well, we have to root it out and we have to stop it.

[Joe Rogan]

How do you root it out?

[Steve Laws]

The law of our land to the people who are perpetrating it. The problem is the police have institutionally been taught that they are racist. And we had Stephen Lawrence killing, which didn't reflect well on the uk, but the response to it has created this fear of being, being, being called a

[Joe Rogan]

racist, which is the Stephen Lawrence killing.

[Steve Laws]

Stephen Lawrence killed, I think was in, it was late 90s. He was, he was, he was Stabbed by some sort of British miscreants.

[Joe Rogan]

And where was he from?

[Steve Laws]

He died. He was. It was in London.

[Joe Rogan]

Where was Stephen Lawrence from?

[Steve Laws]

Well, he was. He was a black. A black.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. So it's a racial hate crime.

[Steve Laws]

It was a racial hate crime.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. And this is in the 90s, and

[Steve Laws]

it was blown up. And again, you. You find that the racial hate crime involving any white people is now blown up, whereas the more. The very often and increasingly common acts against the indigenous white people are hushed up as much as they possibly can be.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a funny thing to say. Indigenous white people.

[Steve Laws]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It is real for England, but, I mean, nobody thinks about that in America. You would never say, like, indigenous white people.

[Steve Laws]

Well, we do have an identity check.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, of course. Is the reason why everyone's so pale.

[Steve Laws]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We do have an identity, but I

[Joe Rogan]

think it really is indigenous.

[Steve Laws]

As I say, we've been very tolerant of people who needed help. We've let them into the country, and on the whole, they have integrated and they have contributed.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Steve Laws]

And I have no problem with that. Like you, I'm absolutely in favor of that.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. The only problem is the people that aren't integrating.

[Steve Laws]

If people don't want to come and live and integrate and contribute, then they shouldn't come. They should remain in their own country.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's also. The idea of incentivizing people to illegally migrate to your country is just pure insanity. You're gonna run out of money, and you're also putting a burden on these taxpayers for no reason whatsoever. It's a bad use of their tax dollars.

[Steve Laws]

But in our immigration document, we put forward the case for basically a hostile environment. We don't want to be handing out welfare. We don't want to be encouraging people to come. We want to create a hostile environment and encourage people to go, unless they're contributing, to go back to their own country and live there. Particularly if they don't like our culture and our laws and they don't respect us and they think we're the infidel.

[Joe Rogan]

But do laws exist that would allow you to ex. To deport those people?

[Steve Laws]

Well, you'd have to repeal. So that's why it's so important we win an overall majority in parliament by 29, because then we can repeal a lot of this legislation which will then empower the nation state again.

[Joe Rogan]

So this is the legislation that provides health care, dental, welfare, housing.

[Steve Laws]

This is legislation largely passed by Tony Blair and his acolytes.

[Joe Rogan]

And this was all just to encourage mass migration.

[Steve Laws]

I think it was to encourage this mass immigration and make it very difficult to stop it, practically. Interestingly, he's quite crafty because he came out the other day trying to distance himself from a lot of the things that he has actually created. So he's quite a canny old fox. And he does look. He looks a bit like Beelzebub these days. I mean, he's got this white hair and these piercing sort of eyes. I can't help look at him and think of evil, but look. So he. Ultimately, I think him and his team realized what they. They realized what they were doing. And he had, he had. It was all done through the law you have to do in a country that believes in the rule of law, the only way to change it is through control of Parliament. So you have to do it top down through the parliamentary system so that you can repeal the laws and you can pass the laws you want to pass to empower the nation state. And at the same time which we're doing, you need to start controlling local government as well, because local government's gone badly wrong. And a lot of the failures from the rape gang inquiry weren't just the national government. You had failure at local government as well.

[Joe Rogan]

So are the local government willfully ignorant? Are they denying its existence? Are they gaslighting people on it?

[Steve Laws]

Yeah, in the case of labor, they've enabled it. I say I can't see how anybody can ever vote labor again. I after they've read this report. Because labor has clearly enabled this both at national level by denying what's been going on and at local level where you have local government turn, it happens mainly in labor controlled areas. You've got people denying completely that this has been happening, whereas we know it's happening. We have people like Sammy Woodhouse, who's a victim of it, who had a child by her rapist. So ultimately local government has to be controlled from the bottom up. And we started that process. We won nine out of nine county council seats in Norfolk. So my constituency is on the coast in England. So it's a coastal constituency. Been very badly served by the post war elite. So the fishermen in England have been sold down the river largely to the European fishermen as part of the membership of the eu. So Norfolk is a county on the east coast. It's got rich farmland and farming's my passion. I love farming. Absolutely. It's my hobby and I love it. So at the end of the day, we have to control local government and change it bottom up. And we have to then get control of national government and change it top

[Joe Rogan]

down, I would imagine.

[Steve Laws]

And if we can do that, Joe, I truly think, if we can, I truly think we can release the spirit of the British people. And I think they want it, but they've got to show, they've got to show through the ballot box that that's what they want.

[Joe Rogan]

I'd imagine there's going to be an enormous amount of resistance to this kind

[Steve Laws]

of huge change from organized crime, which I think we're now in the hands of, from a corrupt judiciary, from a police force that's gone wrong, from local government that's gone wrong. The NHS has gone wrong again. It's a state monopoly and its original function, I think has been subverted. So you've got everything to your point. The education system is wrong. So there's a lot of change that needs to happen. But I think fundamentally the electorate, you saw them in 2016 vote to take back their sovereignty. The government wrote a letter to all the households in the UK recommending they vote to remain in the European Union. This is David Cameron. But actually the British people didn't. They voted to leave and they didn't do it, I think for financial reasons. They did it because they wanted their country back, they wanted their sovereignty back, they wanted an accountable Parliament in Westminster. And some of our problems emanate from the fact that Tony Blair's reforms have undermined our Parliament. So our Parliament is supposed to be omnipotent, it's supposed to be completely contained, the elected representatives of the people. So Parliament is supposed to be right at the top of the chain. But what's happened is it's been undermined by these quangos that Tony Blair set up, which has effectively created at the life of their own, so the Supreme Court and literally there are hundreds of these quangos that now employ unelected people.

[Joe Rogan]

What is that word, quango?

[Steve Laws]

Well, quango is a, like a quasi national government organization. So, so they, they are, you know, you've got all sorts of bodies, you know, the sort of bar standards board, you've got loads of bodies which now prevail. You know, you've got bodies on almost everything which again have flourished since Tony Blair's legislation. Prior to that power lay with Parliament. So that's why they've been able to control a lot of what goes on. Because the two party system, the blues and the reds, the tourism and labor basically have tried to out compete each other. So the entire Parliament, Blair took it, left Cameron emulated Blair and you didn't actually get proper Conservative thought to change a lot of this stuff. That was wrong. So I think this is an opportunity, and I think it's our last opportunity and all the help we can get from. From you guys, I mean, we made a bad mistake in, In. In letting you declare your independence, which you're celebrating tomorrow in the first place. Had we. Had we played our cards better, I think you'd still be. You should. Should still be part of. Part of.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it worked out.

[Steve Laws]

It's worked out pretty well for you, not so well for us.

[Joe Rogan]

Sorry, but I think we're better off.

[Steve Laws]

But I do want to see. I do want to see.

[Joe Rogan]

Otherwise it'd be under your laws.

[Steve Laws]

Well, I do want to see the Anglo Saxon world support each other. I think there's not enough of that. We're too fragmented. There's too much sort of. Whether it's the World Economic Forum, as I said, whatever the reason, there's too much fragmentation and too much undermining of. Of this cohesive Anglo Saxon world, which, let's face it, is the reason why we all have individual freedom. Because as we said earlier, individual freedom is incredibly fragile. We could lose it at any minute. Joe.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, the society that, you know, the way we look at America, when people look at it the right way, or when people are proud of America, they look at it as a place where anybody can come and achieve your dreams. And it doesn't mean only white people, it doesn't mean only black people. It just means Americans. We're supposed to be a community, a team, you know, and the fact that we're a melting pot, that we're not like, you know, indigenous white people like England, is part of the fun of it all, that everyone's welcome, just come over here and do your thing and follow the rules. But the problem with this country is, the problem with any country when you're being run by people that are completely corrupt, and you're being run by people that are influenced by enormous corporations that don't care about the people, that only care about the bottom line, how much money they're making and how do they rig things. And then you have politicians that are making $170,000 a year, but they're somehow worth $400 million, and no one questions it, and no one's in jail. The whole thing is bonkers. And it's just you're always going to have crooks, and you got to hold them off. You got to hold them off as much as possible. When you recognize they're in. You got to do A cleaning. You got a clean house. You got a clean house and get rid of them. If you don't, you're just going to have the problems. It's going to get worse because they're going to figure out, okay, it's just like antibiotics, when you don't take the full round and the stuff doesn't really go out of your system. Oh, now you got medication resistant bacteria. Congratulations, your medication has made the bacteria worse. So if you fight off the corruption a little bit and then you stop, they go, oh, well, we got a, we were close. We almost figured it all out and got it all rigged. But now we got to make sure that we lock people down and have even more laws, even more restrictions. And.

[Steve Laws]

Well, you've summed up what we need to do in the UK very well. I mean, we are, I think, in the hands of organized crime. I think a lot of the institutions that we had previously have become rotten.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it's the right way to recognize it too.

[Steve Laws]

It is in the, and to your point, you know, we do need to now punish people who've let us down.

[Joe Rogan]

It's crime, it really is crime. And to just pretend because it's been going on for so long and that it's business as usual that it's not a crime. Like, no, it's crime. It's crime. It's just somehow another crime that's tolerated.

[Steve Laws]

Well, letting down people who've elected you and given their trust to you is a massive crime.

[Joe Rogan]

Not just letting down, betraying them.

[Steve Laws]

I mean, we have the same as you, but to a lesser extent. Cause you obviously got far more wealth than us. But you see these officials who end up becoming rich and you wonder how they do it. And they're on salaries and they're taxed heavily and yet they always seem to flourish. They never seem to be short of money. So I, and I look at our judiciary, which is again now a quango. The judges are no longer appointed by Parliament, they're appointed by this woke quango. And I had an issue in Parliament. You know, I challenged Parliament because to the point where I've been saying we need to return power to Parliament. They have this body called the ICGS Independent Complaint Agreement Scheme. And in Parliament we have this, this system called parliamentary privilege. So I can speak on the floor of the House and I can't be sued for libel. You can say whatever you want. That's the essence of free speech in the, in the chamber of the Commons. Now this, this body has actually been expressly taken outside Parliament and the case I had against them was they tried to say I couldn't. I caught them doing something I thought was wrong and I wanted to take them to court. They said, you can't take us to court because we're parliamentary privileged. Even though it doesn't. It's not the chamber, it's not an MP speaking. It's got no MPs on this committee. It doesn't report to a parliamentary committee. And yet the judge found they had parliamentary privilege, didn't address the questions. So this is how, this is how the elected assembly has been undermined. And this is what we have to. We have to return power to the elected representatives of the people.

[Joe Rogan]

There's also another thing that Britain has done recently that's very disturbing, which is eliminate jury trials for a lot of.

[Steve Laws]

They're trying to do that. Yeah, they're trying to do that.

[Joe Rogan]

They're trying. So it's not fit, it's not established yet.

[Steve Laws]

They haven't yet done it because there is, there are still a few decent labor mps who fought against it.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, good.

[Steve Laws]

But again, I think that's all a manifestation of organized crime because if you control the judges, of course, and, and you, and you can force more and more people through a judge system rather than a jury system. And so for libel trials, I fought a libel trial when I was in football against the Times, which is Rupert Murdoch's paper. And you know, I think I had my phones hacked and I fought a libel trial against them.

[Joe Rogan]

So the newspaper hacked your phone?

[Steve Laws]

They hacked. When I was in football, they were hacking my phone every day. Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

How are they doing it?

[Steve Laws]

Listening in through my voicemails.

[Joe Rogan]

How'd they do it?

[Steve Laws]

And then they can blag a number from the voicemail and start listening. So if you called me and left a message, they could blag your number off my phone. And they thought this was okay. These were national newspapers. And again, I wanted to take it into your voicemail. Well, because they, in the old days, you, you know, people, if people had a code to encrypt their phone and they didn't do it properly, so we had 0, 0, 00. If you didn't change that. They got into your phone. Right? So they got into my phone, they got into lots of people's phones because you never know quite how they did it. But. So if you'd left me a message, they could blag your number.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Steve Laws]

And then they start listening to your phone and everything else. Now, I think, you know, that was that, was that in this case. Murdoch. But Murdoch I think has done a lot for the right wing cause. I don't always agree with everything and I certainly didn't agree with him hacking phones. But this, all this all goes to the point of the establishment becoming corrupted and from corruption I think again you end up with oppression and we need to sort that out. Yeah, and I'm hoping if I put myself up and the people agree, they will change things and I think they are in a febrile mood. So I'm hoping that they will take the opportunity and give us the power to do it.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm glad you brought that part up because we were not really aware in America of what the general mood of the country is like, where people are leaning in what direction? As far as England goes, what is it like? Is a large percentage of the population fed up? I mean what's going on over there?

[Steve Laws]

Well, I think to your point, you've got this body of people who are profiting on the back of these concepts which are you and I would agree are completely flawed. So they're obviously in control at the moment. But then you've got the body of people, this increasingly small percentage of what I call the private sector which now accounts for a smaller and smaller proportion of gdp. So your percentage of GDP accounted for by the state is much, much smaller than ours. So our, I mean directly and indirectly, I would estimate that the share of government now in our economy is, is over 50%. If you take the effect of these quangos and everything else here, you're much smaller than that. Now that's come, you know, pre Blair Thatcher we were in a very, very good economic state and the state accounted for, you know what it was 30, 33%, something like that. It's now up to nearly 50% and rising. And this is what the Fabians want. They want a dependency culture, a sort of centrally planned, USSR style dishing out of taxpayer funds. So they've diminished the private sector which they're taxing into oblivion, which has meant that a lot of our most able people have left the country. So we've lost, a lot of our rainmakers have gone. So a lot of our best people went to obviously Italy, to Dubai, to Abu Dhabi, all over the world, some of them would have come here. So the best brains have gone and I think the non doms have gone, which again I think is a huge error because they've now been taxed rather than being encouraged to spend their time in the uk. So we're being hollowed out by this socialist philosophy which is creating damage to the private sector and empowering the public sector.

[Joe Rogan]

Is there a large percentage of young people that are aware of this?

[Steve Laws]

Oh, the young people have, I've been incredibly impressed and a lot of them support us. So they, you know, they can see that we're trying, I think, to at least rebalance this. And until we get this right, it's going to be very difficult to sort their situation out. Now there's no overnight fix these days and I don't know, I don't think any of us know quite what effect AI is going to have on the employment market, on opportunities for young people. I mean, in many ways, if they've got a very good brain, they've got a huge opportunity to do very well and enrich themselves. But increasingly it's fewer and fewer people. It's not like the Industrial revolution where the majority of people had an increasing standard of living. It's going to be very interesting to see how we all cope with this incredibly fast moving revolution, which is what it is, which is arguably going to create some incredibly rich people. And those people who haven't got the brain power will end up struggling. So it's hard to see how that's going to end. But that doesn't mean to say we want a state, central planning, everything we know historically that doesn't work. And from that comes a sort of shutdown of thought and debate and free speech and all the things that you and I love. I mean, to me that's a country I want to live in. I don't want to live in a centrally planned mess. So we're in very uncertain times. But I'm optimistic that if you release the ability, the innate ability of people in Britain in particular in this case, I think we can turn it around. Still can't guarantee it, but I'm pretty sure we can still turn it around. But it's got to happen now. If it doesn't happen now, it would have gone too far.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I certainly hope you can because for America, when we see what's happening, particularly with the social media posts and the arrests, it's so disturbing for us. And then of course with your. The rape gang inquiry report was impossible to believe. It's impossible. So, you know, we hope you guys turn it around. And when is your elections?

[Steve Laws]

We don't know, Joe. We've got this character, Andy Burnham, who Keir Starmer has stepped down. As you probably know, Andy Burnham, I call him the Ghostbuster. He is just a more user friendly version of Keir Starmer. He's been the mayor of Manchester. He stood in a by election recently where he was elected and he's apparently going to be anointed as Prime Minister by the 20th of July. So this is a guy who up until recently wasn't even an elected politician. He's been a politician in the past. He's been in the cabinet.

[Joe Rogan]

Keir Starmer can just step down and put another guy in his place and that guy takes over.

[Steve Laws]

That's, that's what's happening.

[Joe Rogan]

That sounds crazy.

[Steve Laws]

I know, what a stupid way to run things. It's bonkers. But so, so, so the answer to your question is so what else? He could run till 29. That's, that's the backstop date.

[Joe Rogan]

He could.

[Steve Laws]

And everybody says he might have a snap election. I think that's highly unlikely. Labour have got the biggest post war majority.

[Joe Rogan]

Why would he have a snap election?

[Steve Laws]

He's got three years left with a huge majority. So why would he, why would he take a risk in Manchester? He was Manchester mayor. He's actually in the report, in the rape gang report. He's mentioned in the rape gang report for not doing enough in Manchester, which is a center of rape gangs. So he's involved in that. He's involved in that. You know, he's mentioned in our report. It's in there. So look, I think in answer your question, when's the election going to be? Some people would say he's going to have an election soon. I don't agree with that. I think he'd be mad because I still think the public will judge labor harshly because the economy's not going well. People aren't feeling richer, they're feeling poorer, their businesses are struggling, their taxes have gone up, our taxes are at post war highs now, so. And the waste is just off the scale. So when I'm in the Public Accounts Committee, which I sit in again, it's all on, you can watch it on people watch it on screens. It's the Public Accounts Committee. It's the most powerful committee in Parliament and we question these civil servants to try and hold them to account for the taxpayer. The waste is just off the, the scale. So you've got a wasteful, inefficient state which is then taxing the private sector into oblivion. The increasingly small private sector. And that's not a recipe that's going to encourage risk taking investment. It's not going to, you know, they're taxing family farms, they're taxing family businesses for the first time. They're basically Breaking the backbone of Britain to the Fabian point. They are enacting this Fabian agenda, which is designed to create a. A society that's reliant on the state. And I don't want that.

[Joe Rogan]

Nobody should want that. Well, listen, man, thank you very much for being here. I really appreciate it. I really appreciate you taking the time. I know it was difficult to get here for this day and this is the only day we had open, so.

[Steve Laws]

No, it's very kind of you to have me on, Joe. I know it's some big celebrations tomorrow,

[Joe Rogan]

so good luck to you.

[Steve Laws]

Yeah, we're gonna win. I'm amazed at the support we've got and I'm amazed at the number of people even on the plane come up to me and thank me for what I'm doing and say they're going to vote for us. And I think Britain's on the turn and hopefully, if we put up shop, tell them what we're going to do, give them a chance to vote for us. If they vote for us. I shall do my best to change things. If they don't vote for me, well, that's their prerogative. That's democracy.

[Joe Rogan]

That's democracy.

[Steve Laws]

Good luck, sir.

[Joe Rogan]

Thank you very much.

[Steve Laws]

Pleasure.

[Joe Rogan]

Hey there, it's Wayfair here, where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app when you spot it. A brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill, too. All right, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast expert setup on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app.

[Steve Laws]

Wayfair every style, every home.