#2538 - Joe DeRosa

Summary

The Joe Rogan Experience #2538 – Joe DeRosa

Date: August 12, 2026
Guest: Joe DeRosa
Host: Joe Rogan

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Episode Overview

This episode features comedian and actor Joe DeRosa for a sprawling, lively discussion that touches on everything from the art of making coffee to the intricacies of comedy club economics, health insurance in America, the challenges of success, the evolution of Austin’s comedy scene, and the perils of show business. The conversation is replete with anecdotes, practical advice, cultural commentary, and industry insights, delivered in Joe and Joe’s trademark blend of humor and candor.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Coffee Ritual: Purity Over Plastic

Timestamps: 02:14–10:56

• Joe and Joe passionately discuss their coffee-making routines, with Joe favoring AeroPress and French press due to their pure taste and minimal plastic use.
• Debate over ease versus quality: Matt likes the convenience of machines and volume, Joe argues for small-batch, manual methods that avoid plastic and prioritize flavor.
• Debunking the perceived difficulty of manual coffee-making, Joe says, “Get an electric kettle – it’s easy, man. French press coffee: one minute, best coffee in the world.” (08:44)

2. The Joy and Challenges of Cooking and Food Prep

Timestamps: 06:46–13:13

• Discussing the shelf-life of prepped vegetables and the importance of freshness, with parallels to grinding coffee beans just before brewing.
• Matt shares a story about learning the drawbacks of prepping vegetables too far in advance for his sandwich shop.
• The merits of black coffee over fancy drinks; jabs at Tony for fancy preferences.
• Recounting a viral Alton Brown video about using a milk steamer for eggs, leading to a debate about culinary laziness versus adventurous cooking.

3. Austin’s Exploding Food Scene & Restaurant Recommendations

Timestamps: 13:13–18:37

• In-depth recommendations for steaks in Austin: Jeffries, J. Carver, Red Ash, and others; discussions about various cooking styles like Argentine live-fire.
• Conversation on comparing finding good food in pre-internet days to today’s ease via Google.

4. The Value of Financial Security and its Psychological Impact

Timestamps: 17:39–20:10

• Both reflect on the “first big leap”: being able to order whatever you want at a restaurant without worrying about the bill.
• Practicing gratitude for supermarket privileges: “Remember, you just pulled whatever you wanted off the shelf. Not everyone has this.” (Matt, 19:18)

5. Poverty, Privilege, and Drive: Philosophical Musings

Timestamps: 19:53–25:22

• Deep dive into whether childhood struggle is necessary for ambition, or if a society could thrive with basic needs met.
• The pitfalls of inherited wealth, “Nepo babies,” and anecdotes about working hard regardless of parental success.

6. Hollywood, Comedy, and Celebrity Authenticity

Timestamps: 26:38–29:44

• Demystifying celebrity: Many actors are “solid, cool people,” including stories about Woody Harrelson (“so nice, so present” — Matt, 27:38), Billy Bob Thornton, Matt Damon, and more.
• Delightful Woody Harrelson memory: Woody promises to watch Matt's special and remembers the title—impresses Matt with his sincerity (28:38).

7. Retro TV & Film Industry: Hogan’s Heroes, The Honeymooners, and Rights Battles

Timestamps: 29:46–38:55

• Analysis of classic sitcoms and the oddities of Hogan’s Heroes as a POW camp comedy.
• The economics of TV: residuals, contracts, and the uniqueness of past deals.
• Discussion of acting on sitcoms versus stand-up, with Joe downplaying the difficulty: “Acting on a sitcom is easy as fuck.” (39:42)

8. Physical Fitness and Mental Health: Personal Journeys

Timestamps: 53:44–78:35

• Joe’s background in taekwondo, fighting, and mental/physical toll.
• Transition to comedy, prioritizing personal well-being, and recognizing the importance of difficult challenges to maintain sanity.
• Advocacy for “voluntary adversity”: exercise as a stabilizing force and practical steps for beginners.
• Inspirational weight loss anecdote: Jelly Roll’s transformation from 500 lbs to fit runner, thanks to slow, steady training and support (68:08).

9. The Health Insurance Crisis & Systemic Failures

Timestamps: 130:17–137:16

• Heated analysis of American health insurance—companies are “in the business of making money, not helping people” (132:33).
• Discussion of social anger, justified vs. unjustified violence, and the emotional toll of denied coverage.
• Health insurance compared to protection plans: often not even as good as Best Buy’s extended warranties.

10. Capitalism, Shareholder Pressure, and Business Ethics

Timestamps: 138:43–149:54

• Concerns about private equity, the rent-to-live culture, and how everything’s a squeeze for money.
• Shareholder demands have “ruined everything,” from Star Wars to healthcare (139:28).
• The necessity and challenges of ethical business: “What’s enough money? If your business is successful, just keep the ball rolling, don’t chase profit at all costs.” (143:03)

11. Building The Mothership: Club Culture and Artistic Environment

Timestamps: 99:19–117:13

• Joe’s journey building The Mothership comedy club, inspired by necessity and camaraderie during the pandemic.
• Emphasis on not making the club about profit, but about creating a hub for comics: “The comics should get the most money. The crowd’s here for them.” (119:09)
• Insights into the club’s architectural history and its communal evolution via input from a host of comedians.

12. The Austin Comedy Renaissance & The Meritocracy of Kill Tony

Timestamps: 97:19–105:28

• The rise of Austin as a comedy destination: affordable for up-and-coming comics, vibrant interconnected club scene.
• “Kill Tony” as a true comedy meritocracy, offering a shot to everyone regardless of background.
• Recounting the explosive growth of the show: from empty Comedy Store rooms to selling out Madison Square Garden (103:09).

13. Show Business Realities vs. Comedy’s New Lane

Timestamps: 158:34–162:05

• The difficulties faced by actors and musicians in Hollywood versus the more accessible route for stand-ups and podcasters.
• “Standups and podcasts: such an easier pathway... It’s bigger because it’s authentic and real. People want that.” (162:08)
• The importance of building something for the right reasons—community, growth, and happiness over raw profit.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On adversity and gratitude:
  “When I check out at the supermarket...people don’t have this. Remember this.” – Matt (19:18)
• On inherited wealth:
  "If somebody gives you everything that you have, those are the people that are the most aimless." – Joe (25:00)
• On physical routine:
  “Voluntary adversity... It makes the rest of your life easier.” – Joe (61:03)
• On comedy club philosophy:
  "You have to do it not to make money...Let’s just break even. Everybody gets paid what they’re supposed to get paid, particularly the comics. That’s what everybody's here to see." – Joe (119:09)
• On entertainment industry independence:
  "Stand up and podcasts is such an easier pathway...because it’s authentic...People want that." – Joe (162:08)
• On capitalism’s flaws:
  "The flaws are human nature." – Joe (150:43)
• On Hollywood:
  "If you don’t have the people strategically buying you through the system, it doesn’t fucking happen." – Matt (159:02)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Coffee Philosophy & Prep – 02:14–10:56
• Restaurant Round-up/Austin Food Scene – 13:13–18:37
• Financial Freedom & Gratitude – 17:39–20:10
• Philosophy of Hardship vs. Privilege – 19:53–25:22
• Celebrity Authenticity Stories – 26:38–29:44
• Classic TV/Film Business Discussion – 29:46–38:55
• Acting vs. Stand-up – 39:42–41:12
• Physical/Mental Health, Training – 53:44–78:35
• Comedy Club Building & Culture – 99:19–117:13
• Rise of Kill Tony/Austin Comedy – 97:19–105:28
• Health Insurance & Systemic Anger – 130:17–137:16
• Capitalism, Corporations, and Ethics – 138:43–149:54
• Hollywood’s Game vs. Comedy’s New Lane – 158:34–162:05

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Memorable Anecdotes

• Woody Harrelson remembering the exact name of Matt's special hours later (28:38–28:42)
• Story of Jelly Roll’s monumental weight loss and stage leap (68:08–69:33)
• The early days of Kill Tony with empty rooms, now to Madison Square Garden sellouts (103:09–104:49)
• Grocery store moment of gratitude (19:18)

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Conclusion

This episode masterfully weaves comic banter, deep personal reflection, socio-economic commentary, and invaluable advice for both everyday living and creative pursuits. Whether discussing coffee, comedy, policy, or personal growth, Joe Rogan and Joe DeRosa balance humor with insight, culminating in an engaging, generous conversation about the nature of ambition, community, and the pursuit of happiness in an ever-changing world.

Transcript

[Joe DeRosa]

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[Joe DeRosa]

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[Joe DeRosa]

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[Joe DeRosa]

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[Matt McCusker]

Joe Rogan podcast Check it out.

[Joe DeRosa]

The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day

[Matt McCusker]

Joe Rogan Podcast by night all day. Cheers.

[Joe DeRosa]

I went through a whole like a series of different coffee machines that I tried out. I tried out one of them that was like this little thing that's like a tea dipper, almost like for an individual cup of coffee. And you put the grounds in this little thing. It's a little tiny press, okay. And you boil the water, put it in the coffee cup and then you sit in there like it's tea and then you press it and it makes like a French press, eh?

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

So then I went to an aeropress I like that one a lot.

[Matt McCusker]

What's an Aeropress?

[Joe DeRosa]

I use that every day. So with an Aeropress, I boil the water, grind the beans, and then I pour it into this glass tube. And the glass tube is a filter at the bottom of it, like in a. Like a mesh, like a steel or an aluminum. It's some kind of metal mesh. And then that's what it looks like. And so you press down and it makes a cup of coffee real quick. And it's one cup. And so that's what I like. Because I was making coffee, like I was doing French press for a while. I had a coffee machine. But the issue is that you're not supposed to really be drinking out of hot plastic. All that shit's plastic. There's plastic. The water goes into plastic. There's plastic here and plastic there. I'm trying to eliminate as much plastic in my life as possibly as I possibly can.

[Matt McCusker]

I'll tell you too. I, a couple times in my adult life splurged on, you know, some fucking

[Joe DeRosa]

one of them Italian espresso machines. Yeah, yeah, one of those.

[Matt McCusker]

It grinds the beans every time you're gonna wet. Those fucking things go sideways on you in a year. And then you're like, I gotta get it fixed. And they're like, yeah, there's a shop, it's 90 minutes north of you. You drive the machine up there, you're just like, fuck this shit, man. So I went back, I just. I have an espresso and you put the fucking pot in and whatever.

[Joe DeRosa]

But there's a company that makes one. I should shout them out. That makes one that's all steel. I think it's called Simply Good Coffee. I follow them on Instagram. I haven't used their machine, but that's all steel. It's an all steel coffee machine, which is what you want, but I've got it down to the Aeropress. The Aeropress to me, very simple. The minimal amount of, like, parts. It's just a tube. The cry, the grinds, the coffee tastes pure. It's simple. I make one cup of coffee a day.

[Matt McCusker]

Here. Here is. Here is what I miss because I will drink a lot of coffee if I'm able to. Here's what I miss about, like a traditional Mr. Coffee Pot of coffee, okay? You set it. It starts doing it in the morning. You wake up, it's already going, you know, right? I get two cups hot in the morning, I put it in the fridge. And then in the afternoon, when I start feeling sluggish, I got Two cold cups. And it's just a nice.

[Joe DeRosa]

So you just want volume.

[Matt McCusker]

I love volume.

[Joe DeRosa]

Then make a French press. It'll taste better this right here.

[Matt McCusker]

But then you got to make it every time.

[Joe DeRosa]

What do you.

[Matt McCusker]

You got to do one cup.

[Joe DeRosa]

You don't have a job, you lazy motherfucker. You don't even have a job. You literally talk shit for a living. And you're like, oh, making coffee so hard. Someone had a skin, a fucking buffalo. Just to stay warm in the winter.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Just to stay alive. They had to shred the skin off of it with a stone knife, and they had to pull it and stretch it and tan it and put animal brains on it to make sure that it's softened up and salted down.

[Matt McCusker]

Guess what? If you would have said to that guy, hey, we got this thing called Mr. Buffalo, it'll just do it real fast. He would have been like, okay, this sucks.

[Joe DeRosa]

Mr. Buffalo. He would be fucking sitting in his teepee going, Bro, Mr. Buffalo's the shit. Yeah, he'd get fat and lazy.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

So true.

[Matt McCusker]

But, yeah, it's. I just. I like to make more than one cup at one. So that thing, that air fryer French

[Joe DeRosa]

press is so easy. You talk about making it hard. This right here, this is an all metal French press. No plastic parts at all. It's the fucking easiest thing in the world, dude.

[Matt McCusker]

So this can make a full pot, though.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yes.

[Matt McCusker]

Oh, okay. Well, then that's. I would do that.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah. And this is not expensive. It's just a steel French press. This is the best tasting coffee you're ever gonna get because it's got all the oils from the beans, man. You get, like, the. Like the real coffee dorks, you know? Something happens in the filter. So. In the filter. Yes. You remove the grinds. Yes. But also you remove some of the flavor.

[Matt McCusker]

Yes.

[Joe DeRosa]

Just a touch.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. It's funny, man. When I. Back when I was. When I was still involved with the sandwich shop, one of the things I learned that I never knew because you had to take a test to get a food handler's license and all this shit was. I didn't know that food started breaking down the moment you cut it. I didn't know that because I was getting into, at the time, meal prep and shit. Like, if I cut. If I cut up. If I chop the tomatoes now, if I chop the carrots now the cucumbers now, it'll be way easier to just throw a salad together every day. It'll make me eat the good thing because it'll Be fast. And then I learned no, as soon as you cut something, it starts to break down.

[Joe DeRosa]

Is this just vegetables?

[Matt McCusker]

I think it's mainly vegetables. I don't think it. Raw meat is fine or whatever, but the vegetables.

[Joe DeRosa]

That makes sense because the inside's exposed to the air.

[Matt McCusker]

But it's gotta be the same principle with coffee beans, I would think, right? Like once they're ground.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's a good question. Yeah, I think people like to grind them right before they. I always grind them right before I make the coffee, which is easy. I have a grinder. Yeah, it's a one step, one button. I press it. It takes 13 seconds. I count it, it goes. Thirteen seconds is the exact amount of beans that I want for one strong. I like a strong cup of coffee. One strong cup of coffee with that aeropress thing. But it's the. With a French press, you take it, you just get a determined amount. And you can dial the knob on the grinder. It's so easy. Grinders are so simple. So listen, all you do is you take that ground coffee, after it comes into the little cup, you pour it into the bottom of the fucking French press and then you pour the hot water in. Done. Yeah, that's it. And then you wait one minute and then you push this fucking plunger down and you drink the best coffee in the world. And it doesn't have any plastic and it doesn't have any bullshit. And there's no moving parts.

[Matt McCusker]

Yes.

[Joe DeRosa]

There's nothing. It's just that thing. And if the grinder breaks, you get another fucking grinder. Okay? And grinders don't break. I've never had a grinder break.

[Matt McCusker]

But you got to boil the water first. Correct.

[Joe DeRosa]

Oh, my God. Are you okay? Are you going to be okay? You got to turn the knob on the stove. You going to be okay? What the fuck is wrong with this guy? I hit a button on the. This is on the boiler that you bought. He's so ridiculous. He's like, whoa, I can't be the water. I gotta boil it, dude. I get out of bed, get an automatic kettle. You get a kettle. There's literally. I have one that has a setting that says French press on it. It's a steel kettle and it works all electronically, so it's temper regulated temperature. And it beeps when it's done. Press 200 degrees. And then I press start and it goes okay. And when that happens, I pour the water onto the beans.

[Matt McCusker]

Well, now we're talking.

[Joe DeRosa]

Now we're talking.

[Matt McCusker]

An electric kettle. I'm Thinking, I got to put a fucking pot on the stove.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's even easier, Dude. I get out such a lazy.

[Matt McCusker]

It's not laziness.

[Joe DeRosa]

You're so lazy.

[Matt McCusker]

It's. I swear, it's not like this. I wake up with the dread of humanity in my brain. I'm just like, I need a cup of coffee immediately to just start the day and just clear the head. And the longer that takes, the longer I got to sit in that wake up anxiety.

[Joe DeRosa]

I understand.

[Matt McCusker]

So. But now we're talking. You know what I'm gonna get? I'm gonna get a boiling pot that you can set a timer on.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, they're easy. They're electronic kettles. They sell them online. And they have, like settings for tea, settings for this, settings for hot cocoa. You know, it's like five or six different settings or something like that, depending on the model.

[Matt McCusker]

All right.

[Joe DeRosa]

They're so easy, dude. It's my little. Yeah. And it's the best coffee. It tastes good, and I don't have to think. I had a whole one of these really nice machines, and it can make an espresso, can make a coffee, can make a latte. It's got a little foam thing that I've never, never even thought about using it. Never even thought about steaming milk in my fucking house.

[Matt McCusker]

Never.

[Joe DeRosa]

But I always was thinking, I'm just. It's all plastic. Every time I filled up the water thing, I'm like, this is all plastic. Everything's plastic.

[Matt McCusker]

Do you know. Do you know what I saw, though, that made me want to get the thing again with the cream steamer, because I don't put cream in, so I don't have any use for it.

[Joe DeRosa]

Black coffee, right?

[Matt McCusker]

Black coffee, man. Always.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, me too.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. Tony shits on it.

[Joe DeRosa]

Of course he does. Tony needs a fucking umbrella in his coffee. He's got a umbrel and a pineapple,

[Matt McCusker]

a cookie with it, and he holds

[Joe DeRosa]

it with one pinky out when he drinks his coffee.

[Matt McCusker]

He goes. I go. I drink it black. He goes, ah, you fucking hate condiments. I was like, what are you talking about?

[Joe DeRosa]

I like the taste of coffee.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

I genuine, genuinely like black coffee.

[Matt McCusker]

You know what I saw, though, that made me want to get. The foam steamer was not for foam. You know Alton Brown. I love Alton Brown. He did a thing, he did a video where he made this thing with eggs, and he used the foam steamer to, like, foam the eggs up. And I was like, this looks. I want to get it just for that. Just to do the thing with the Eggs.

[Joe DeRosa]

Interesting.

[Matt McCusker]

But then you gotta.

[Joe DeRosa]

So you're lazy when it comes to making coffee. But you go way out of the way for some foamy eggs.

[Matt McCusker]

I'll cook.

[Joe DeRosa]

I'll use a steamer.

[Matt McCusker]

I like to cook. I'll cook.

[Joe DeRosa]

There it is, right here. Oh, wow.

[Matt McCusker]

Look at that.

[Joe DeRosa]

Wow. Wow.

[Matt McCusker]

He said this is like, apparently incredible. It's like two eggs, a little cheese.

[Joe DeRosa]

Interesting. Interesting. And so you whisk it up like that and then you add the foam and the foam cooks it. Is that how he's cooking it with the foam?

[Matt McCusker]

He cooks the eggs with the foamer.

[Joe DeRosa]

So what is in the foamer? Is it just hot water? Yeah, that's it.

[Matt McCusker]

Yep.

[Joe DeRosa]

Okay, so this hot water from the steam is cooking his eggs.

[Matt McCusker]

Look at the egg cooking. Look at.

[Joe DeRosa]

Pretty dope.

[Matt McCusker]

Look at that.

[Joe DeRosa]

He's eating. Or you just eat eggs. Wrong with you. Let's crack some eggs, fry some eggs. What's the problem?

[Matt McCusker]

You don't think that looks good?

[Joe DeRosa]

It doesn't look as good as Sunny side up eggs. I was looking at it. I was like, those foamy eggs. Oh, I want a real egg.

[Matt McCusker]

Could you imagine dunking toast in those foamy eggs? Come on.

[Joe DeRosa]

No. Cause I don't even eat toast.

[Matt McCusker]

Come on. Toast once in a while. Occasionally, yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

You know, when I get it with steak tartare, I like those little toast points.

[Matt McCusker]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

You ever get some steak tartare toast points at J. Carver? You ever go to J. Carver?

[Matt McCusker]

Oh, yeah, of course.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. What's your favorite spot in Austin to get a meal like? Is it.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's impossible to say. There's so many good spots. There's so many good spots. Is crazy with the amount of great restaurants, like really high end restaurants. I've eaten steak at every restaurant in town. And I gotta think the best one is Jeffries. Jeffries is.

[Matt McCusker]

I still haven't gone. I gotta go.

[Joe DeRosa]

Perfection. It's perfect. They're all great. Like, I've never had a bad steak at J. Carver's. I've never had a bad steak at Eddie V's. They're all great. But there's something about whatever Jeffries is doing. I think they got rated, like the number two steakhouse in the country. Something crazy like that.

[Matt McCusker]

I gotta go to Jeffries. I've been dragging my ass. I love Jay Carver. Jake Carver's amazing, you know?

[Joe DeRosa]

Amazing. Their steak is different. Jeffrey steak, you know, like J. Carver steak is. He's. He's using one of those Argentine grills. So it's all live fire over Wood. Delicious flavor.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

But, man, there's like another. Another level. Like, whatever Jeffrey's doing.

[Matt McCusker]

Like, fuck. I go, I love Gary, the bartender at Eddie V's, and he makes killer martinis. I love to go in and get a martini.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's a great bar.

[Matt McCusker]

Shrimp cocktail, beautiful bar. And some steak. But I love. I gotta tell you, it's the same owners as Jake Harver. I actually think I like the steak at Red Ash a little bit better than Jake Harver.

[Joe DeRosa]

How?

[Matt McCusker]

There's just something different about. I don't know what the difference in the prep is, but just the steak and then also having the option of all the Italian foods that you can get with the steak.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah. Red Ash is phenomenal, too. They have another place called the Kimberly. That place is phenomenal, too.

[Matt McCusker]

Kimberly's very good.

[Joe DeRosa]

There's too many good restaurants. You have an abundance of choices here.

[Matt McCusker]

It took a minute because when I first moved back, because I was here in 2000 for a year. When I first moved back, you know, I was in New York for so long, I forgot, like, Austin is more of a destination city. You have to kind of find the places. And Tommy Pope was like, dude, give me your phone. And he went into my Google Maps and he bookmarked 10 spots and was like, get this here, get this there, get this here and every spot. I was like, okay, now we're rocking and rolling. It was great.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah. Imagine back in the day, before the Internet, you couldn't just Google, like, what's the best steakhouse in Austin? You couldn't. I mean, that's kind of an amazing thing. Now you had to be told about a restaurant, you know.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, yeah. What's. What's tough. I do that in cities. When I'm on the road, I'll look up what's the best Italian sandwich in the city. Sometimes it's right. Sometimes it's like, you know, the most popular touristy place. Exactly. Sometimes it's just a place that paid for publicity. So they're getting on these lists, and it's not accurate, but when you find it, it's great. The Internet is a great tool to help find these places. Like you said, it used to just be word of mouth. You just have to say what's good. And now you're depending on some guy's opinion, which is not always the best, but.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, but there's some certain places, it's like, people are your own little Siskel and Ebert for movies, but for restaurants, like, you've got to find a fat Guy who loves food. Yeah, that guy's gonna tell you where the best bots are.

[Matt McCusker]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, who knows everything?

[Joe DeRosa]

There's, like, east coast places, though, that you're just never gonna get anywhere else other than the East Coast. There's certain, like, kind of small Italian restaurants in particular. There's this place I used to go to when I lived in New Rochelle, Frank and John's. I think it was Frankie and Johnny's. I think that's what's called.

[Matt McCusker]

Okay.

[Joe DeRosa]

New Rochelle. This Italian place. It was so fucking insane. It was so insane.

[Matt McCusker]

They made so good a movie about that. Well, there was a movie called Frankie and Johnny with Al Pacino, and I think it's about that restaurant. I think he works at that restaurant.

[Joe DeRosa]

Really?

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. It's gotta be a lot of restaurants, right?

[Joe DeRosa]

But it's. I mean, I'm 90% sure it was in New Rochelle, because that's where I lived. I lived in New Rochelle. If it wasn't in New Rochelle, it was in the surrounding areas, like maybe Mount Vernon or something like that. But. Oh, my God. Dude was so good. When I got my first development deal, my manager thought that I had a gambling problem. But it was really just because I was eating steak and lobster every night.

[Matt McCusker]

Go, where's all your money going?

[Joe DeRosa]

He's like, what are you doing? You're spending so much money. Do you have a gambling problem? And I was like, no. I'm eating steak and lobster every night. I've been poor my whole life. I'm fucking eating like a king until this shit runs out. I don't even know if it's gonna last, but I'm riding this bitch right into the rocks.

[Matt McCusker]

My favorite thing about when I finally got to a point of some financial stability with this crazy career that you go through for a long time without knowing what's next. But my favorite thing was when I could go, I can eat whatever I want now. Like, that was. That was a huge moment to me.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's one of the biggest. Brian Callan said that to me once he goes, the most important, other than obviously, taking care of your family and mortgage and all that stuff after, like, life necessity, the big change. The big change is being able to go to a restaurant and order whatever you want and not think about it, not worry about the bill.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

And if you can do that, like, you have real freedom. Like, that's like the big. The first big leap. And then everything after that is like these little things. It's great. Oh, Look, I live in a nice apartment. Oh, look, I have a nice car. Oh, look, I got the shoes that I wanted. Oh, look, that's all fine. Yeah, it's nice. But the weight that's lifted off of you when you don't have to worry about your bills, that's number one.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's the big one.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's the giant leap. That's the. Between the two buildings. Like, I don't know if this is gonna work out to wee bump.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Okay. I'm gonna be okay.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Now it's just about how hard do I work and what kind of success do I have? But I can feed myself now with no fears.

[Matt McCusker]

Dude, I actually might have said this to you the last time I was here. I don't remember, but it's the most profound moment for me in practicing gratitude for my life. I swear to God. It's the supermarket. When I check out at the supermarket, I try to remind myself, you just pulled whatever you wanted off the shelf to fill your cart and you didn't have to worry about, can I pay for this or not? You're checking out and you're paying for your groceries, and it costs what it cost. You're not work. I was like, people. There are people that don't have this, man. Remember this?

[Joe DeRosa]

A ton of people. Here's the question, though. Do you think that there's value in not having that when you're young and then developing that sort of drive and ambition and desire to earn money and get something because you know what it's like to be poor?

[Matt McCusker]

Yes.

[Joe DeRosa]

Or do you think the world would be a far better place if instead of people having to concentrate on necessities like food and shelter, society reaches a point where that is a given and no one ever has to worry about food and shelter? And now it's all about, what do you want to pursue and how much energy you put into it? Or do you think that you have to have that struggle?

[Matt McCusker]

I think. Look, I don't think that that struggle and the transition out of that struggle is ever bad for anybody. I think it builds your spirit and it builds who you are. That said, the other version of it, I don't know, because it's just not a thing that we have here.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's not a thing that people have ever experienced here. And I don't even know if they really experience it anywhere else. I mean, I think there's, like, forms of socialism, but they all evolve. Oppression, there's. They all involve government overreach. They all. Any Any real socialist system always involves, like, serious restrictions on what you can and can't do.

[Matt McCusker]

Sa. I will tell you this, and this might be a byproduct of the culture we live in, because we don't have it. I will say I. There is a noticeable difference to me between people I am friendly with that grew up with money and people that. That I know that grew up that didn't have it. Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

But is that because of our society?

[Matt McCusker]

That's my question.

[Joe DeRosa]

This is the question that I have. Like, is it necessary that that has to be your struggle in order to develop the kind of discipline that you need to be successful in life? Or is it just our society is fucked up? And that desperation that we're putting into people, you're just making the motivation different. Like you're enfor the idea of greed because people become selfish because no one was looking out for them and they have a chip on their shoulder, all that shit. But you don't necessarily have to have that to have interest in pursuing something to the best of your abilities.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, it's a tough thing to define. It really is. I think there's bonuses to both. But I also think too, in the social society thing, hey, isn't it great if you can go, hey, man, I'm a waiter and I'm able to live a normal life and buy a house and be. Nor, you know, whatever.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, but that's not socialist. That's just a. We. We're fucked in terms of like, the amount people earn versus what you can buy versus like the 1950s. The 1950s. You know, the way a person can make a living and feed an entire family off of one paycheck. It was way easier. Yeah, it was a lot easier.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. Well, it always makes me laugh. Cause one of my favorite TV shows of all time is all in the Family, right? And the whole thing with all in the Family was supposed to be that they were kind of struggling. Like Archie was a cab driver and they didn't have a lot of money. Whatever. You look at that fucking house they lived in, you're like, that house would be $10.3 million now. They're living pretty fucking good.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's a nice house, right? It's all clean and nice inside.

[Matt McCusker]

It's got two floors.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, the guy's a camp Dr. Yeah.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. So it's a tough. It's a tough thing. But as far as the society we live in, personally, I think it's better to have known what nothing is and then go to appreciating what you do

[Joe DeRosa]

have, I don't know, because I've never. I've never grown up any other way. But I wonder if you have a con. If you have conscientious parents and you're a young kid and, you know, your dad just sits you down and tells you, hey, buddy, you can be whatever you want, but you're gonna have to fucking put in the work. Like, there's only one way out of this thing. And nobody. Nobody rides for free. And if you do ride for free, you're gonna be depressed.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

If somebody gives you everything that you have, those are the people that are the most aimless. The rich kids that I've met that have no. Like, they've had money their entire life. Like, their parents just give them a trust fund so they don't have to work, and they're worth, like, a ton of money. They're all sad, right? They're all sad. Then they have. They're all super insecure. They're all. They all act real weird.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. I know one or two people that had trust funds, grew up like that, but still work their asses off. Because again, you're saying it's what the parents.

[Joe DeRosa]

You know, I think a big part of that, right, is what the parents is telling you.

[Matt McCusker]

There's all this talk now of Nepo babies and all that stuff. I was good friends years ago with Eden Brolin. She's Josh Brolin's daughter, and she was very close with her dad. I remember she was in my house one day in la, and she's like, I'm not supposed to tell anybody my dad's gonna be Thanos in the Marvel movies. And I was like, that's fucking crazy, right? So, like. But she. Dude, she worked for every fucking thing. She. I became friends with her because she was a hostess at the Stand in New York. Like, she always had regular jobs. She plays in a band now she does some acting. But she is not in a situation where her dad put her wherever. And I think it's because they're very close, but I think it was because she was just raised in a way where he's like, you're gonna earn your shit and, you know, and you're gonna do your thing. And she's an amazing person. Like, there was none of that. None of that my dad's famous and uncomfortable arrogance.

[Joe DeRosa]

But he's a cool guy. He's a very normal guy.

[Matt McCusker]

I never met him.

[Joe DeRosa]

He's a very nice guy.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Very, very smart and very normal. Like, you can hang out with Talk and jokes around. He's like. He's very present.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

And there's. There's a lot of people like that that you think of. You know, you think of actors as all being these fucking aloof weirdos who live in this bizarre liberal, like, progressive leftist bubble. And a lot of them are. There's. There's a giant number that are. But, man, there's a ton of, like, really solid, cool people that are actors. Like Billy Bob Thornton.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. Cool as he seems. Awesome.

[Joe DeRosa]

So cool. He got. Actually got me the short shirt shout out to.

[Matt McCusker]

That's awesome.

[Joe DeRosa]

And I said, nice, Charmani. So he hooked it up.

[Matt McCusker]

I'd love to meet him. I'd love to meet him.

[Joe DeRosa]

He's great. There's a lot of those guys that are really great. Woody Harrelson's great. I was just gonna say McConaughey's great.

[Matt McCusker]

I became friendly with Woody and his wife through Tony.

[Joe DeRosa]

He's so nice.

[Matt McCusker]

He's the fucking. They're both amazing.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah.

[Matt McCusker]

They're like. He's.

[Joe DeRosa]

He's so. So normal.

[Matt McCusker]

Cool, man. Yeah, like, so.

[Joe DeRosa]

So cool. And present. Has zero ego. He's just always chill and hanging out. Always, like, super friendly and nice to everybody. Woody's so nice.

[Matt McCusker]

He. He. He said a thing to me the first time I ever hung out with him. He came to kill Tony, and. And. And we were drinking after the show. We had a great time. And at the end of the night, he just goes. And Tony had plugged my special at the beginning of the show or whatever, and at the end of the night, and, I mean, we'd had a few. We were in Mitzis. We were all kind of just getting into that, swaying around, you know, And I was like, it was great to meet you, man. And he goes. He goes, yeah, man, it was fun tonight. And he goes, I'm gonna watch your special. And I go, thanks, man. And he goes, I never promised you a rose garden. And I was like, yeah, that's the name. And he's like, I'm gonna watch. I'm like, this fucking guy remembered the name of my special from a plug five hours ago. And I was like, that's fucking awesome, man.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's pretty cool.

[Matt McCusker]

What a fucking.

[Joe DeRosa]

He's just a good dude.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. What an awesome dude.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah. They exist, Matt. You know, there's a lot of them out there. You'd be shocked. Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. Very cool guys. Like, talk to them on and off here. I've talked to Matt before. I actually randomly ran Into Matt Damon a few years back in Italy at a restaurant where he was seated under a picture of him. So I had already met him before at the ufc, and then we were in Italy. I was with my family, and he was with his family, and he sat down. We were already sitting down, and we were right across. I go, oh, look at that picture of Matt Damon. And Matt Damon walks in and sits right under the picture of Matt Damon. And I go, hey, Matt. And he's like, hey, what are you doing here? Gave me a big hug. And I was like, but this is so meta. Did you ever see so Strange to, like, look at a photo of a guy on the wall and go, oh, I know him. That's Matt Damon. And then he comes in and sits right there right after you say it.

[Matt McCusker]

That's so funny.

[Joe DeRosa]

What are the odds?

[Matt McCusker]

That's so funny.

[Joe DeRosa]

What are the odds?

[Matt McCusker]

Do you ever see Auto Focus? The Bob Crane movie?

[Joe DeRosa]

Yes.

[Matt McCusker]

With great Canadian.

[Joe DeRosa]

What a crazy movie.

[Matt McCusker]

I love that movie.

[Joe DeRosa]

That movie's crazy. Do you think the guy killed him? His buddy?

[Matt McCusker]

Yes, I do. I do.

[Joe DeRosa]

It seems like it.

[Matt McCusker]

I do. I think so. But that's when they show how he would get laid on the road.

[Joe DeRosa]

Crazy. He would wait for the reruns of Hogan's Heroes to be on tv, and then he'd sit in front of the

[Matt McCusker]

television he knew when they were on. And there's that scene. There's that scene where he tells the bartender, he goes, could you put on channel 22 whatever she puts it on, and he's sitting under it, and then the hot chick comes up. She goes, oh, my God, is that you? And he goes, oh, how embarrassing. Oh, my God.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, back then, you gotta think Hogan's Heroes. First of all, how much has society changed and how much more sensitive have people gotten when you think that Hogan's Heroes was a show about a Nazi concentration camp? And it was a comedy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a comedy.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

It was a comedy about prisoners of war that were captured by the Nazis.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, yeah. And they made, like, they had, like, lovable Nazis.

[Joe DeRosa]

Lovable Nazis that were bumbling buddies. Nobody died. The show was on for, like, five years. Nobody died?

[Matt McCusker]

Nope.

[Joe DeRosa]

Did anybody? How many seasons did Hogan's Heroes go? 168 episodes. 6 seasons.

[Matt McCusker]

God damn.

[Joe DeRosa]

168 episodes, 6 seasons. And no one died. They didn't kill anybody. How many people died on Hogan's Heroes? Run that through our AI sponsor, Perplexity.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

How many people died during World War II in a Nazi prison?

[Matt McCusker]

Not a one. Not a one.

[Joe DeRosa]

Nobody got tortured in six years and 148 episodes.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. It's so insane. Do you think they get into a little bit of this in the movie? But they play it down. But do you think there was a lot of pushback? Do you think there was like. They were like, what, are you fucking crazy? We can't make this show. This is nuts. Or was it just there in the movie?

[Joe DeRosa]

Was there pushback? I don't remember.

[Matt McCusker]

There's a little bit where he's like, it's kind of crazy.

[Joe DeRosa]

Almost nobody dies on screen or as a plot event in Hogan's Heroes. It was a broad comedy. And the regular heroes, Hogan, Klink, Heroes, Clink, Colonel Clink Schultz, the fucking Nazi guard. He's a hero. And the prisoners survived the series. The notable fictional death of Major Wolfgang Hochstetter, who is reportedly killed during an Allied bombing raid, and the commandant dies at dawn. The title is misleading. Colonel Klink is not killed. So the practical answer is one named reoccurring character with occasional unnamed wartime casualties implied rather than shown. Yeah, nobody died, obviously.

[Matt McCusker]

That's.

[Joe DeRosa]

Clink was like, remember, I see nothing. He saw nothing. He was always like, I gotta get out of here. I see nothing. Like, they're all plotting fucking devious things to try to get back at the guards. And he was like, I see nothing.

[Matt McCusker]

It's like having a show where the Klan kidnaps people and then the clan is, like, kind of funny.

[Joe DeRosa]

The black guys are, like, break dancing. The Klan's having a good time with them.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. The closest I've ever seen to it is Tarantino in Django when he makes the Klan scene funny, when they're all kind of dumb. Do you remember that scene?

[Joe DeRosa]

God, I don't remember that scene.

[Matt McCusker]

Unfortunately, there's a scene with the clan, and I think Jonah Hill has a cameo in it. And they're all kind of dumb, and it's like, funny dialogue with the clan. You're like, I don't know how he just pulled this off, but he did.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's the same with the bags where they're trying to talk about the. Like, my wife made mine.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, my point was that if you go back to that year, like, what year was Hogan's Heroes? Was it the 70s? 65 to 71 is when it. 65 to 71.

[Matt McCusker]

Okay.

[Joe DeRosa]

Being on television was a very new thing.

[Matt McCusker]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Very new thing. A sitcom star was a very new thing. It was only, at the most, what, two decades old?

[Matt McCusker]

How old?

[Joe DeRosa]

Is the Honeymooners. What year was that?

[Matt McCusker]

Honeymooners are the early 50s, I believe. Right. I think. And it was a spin off of the Gleason Variety Hour, whatever the fuck that was called. It was a sketch they did.

[Joe DeRosa]

55. Yeah. It's only on TV for a year. What?

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

What year did it start? It says it originally aired from 55 to 56. Wow.

[Matt McCusker]

That's the thing.

[Joe DeRosa]

The Honeymooners. There's only one season, so I have

[Matt McCusker]

both Honeymooners box sets because I love the show.

[Joe DeRosa]

39 episodes in one season. That's a lot.

[Matt McCusker]

The main box set is called the classic 39 because that's all the episodes that weren't sketches on the show or anything like that. He did 39 episodes and he was like, we did it. It's done. It's like, nobody does that now.

[Joe DeRosa]

Right.

[Matt McCusker]

You know, Seinfeld did it and Ricky Gervais does it. He does three seasons and he goes, that's it. They did 39 and it was a massive success. And they were like, you have to do more of these. And he's like, nope, we did it. We're good. We have nothing left to say. Really? Yeah. And then they did reunion shows and shit, but, like, that was it. That's wild. That's wild.

[Joe DeRosa]

He went on to do all kinds of other shit, though. He was in the hustler in 62. He played Minnesota. Serious role.

[Matt McCusker]

Minnesota Fats.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

You know, he was. He was like the only guy that's ever been in a movie about a pool player that was a real pool player. Like, he could play. Like you watch him play in the movie. Like, oh, okay. That's a real pool player.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Like the way he strokes the ball. He strokes the ball like a pro guy. He could run. I think he ran like 75 balls in straight pool. It might be hunting, but, like, the 100 balls is like the number. If you could run 100 balls in straight pool, people are like, that guy's legit. He's. He can run 100 balls.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

You know, and he could do that.

[Matt McCusker]

Gleason was an incredible.

[Joe DeRosa]

What's that, Jamie? It's kind of interesting about the show. The.

[Matt McCusker]

The.

[Joe DeRosa]

The sketches were over 35 minutes or more, and the writers felt restricted by the half hour format.

[Matt McCusker]

Wow.

[Joe DeRosa]

So that partially had something. Also, he had a contract issue too. So they felt restricted because they didn't have enough. They had one more time to. They said it was too slapsticky and fast paced according to TV Guide. Huh.

[Matt McCusker]

Look at this. He had $7 million left on his contract in 1956, which is crazy money. The excellence of the material could not be maintained. I had too much fondness for the show to cheapen it.

[Joe DeRosa]

Wow.

[Matt McCusker]

I mean, that is baller shit back then. Like, that is not something people were doing back then.

[Joe DeRosa]

Or he's. He just got lazy because he had so much money. Yeah, he had it. CBS was gonna give him a three year contract for what would been $132 million today. He was gonna get close to like a million dollars an episode. A million an episode Back then. It was close to that.

[Matt McCusker]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Joe DeRosa]

Like, what today is. I forget where it was on here, but.

[Matt McCusker]

But even that's, like, kind of unheard of. When Seinfeld, when it was announced they were all gonna get a million an episode, I remember that was like Groundbreak. It was like, this has never been done before, Right? Whatever. This guy was offered the equivalent of that back in 56 and said, Nah, I'm good.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, he probably already had so much money and he was drunk all the time. Yeah, that guy drank all the time.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

He was so fun.

[Matt McCusker]

Did you ever watch his final interview?

[Joe DeRosa]

Yes. Yes.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. He's in the tracksuit, just chain smoking.

[Joe DeRosa]

Oh, yeah. He didn't give a track suit. Trains. Wow. He was making $839,000 now, the equivalent. But he had to pay for production costs, it says. Oh, that's different. Yeah.

[Matt McCusker]

Oh, okay.

[Joe DeRosa]

Art Carney. Carney received $3,500 a week, which is $42,000 a week now. Audrey Meadows, $2,000 a week. Wow. Women got over back then. No, but Jackie Gleason Enterprises was running the show, so. I mean. Yeah, he. Her over is what I'm saying. Art Cardi guy almost twice as much as her.

[Matt McCusker]

God damn. Jesus.

[Joe DeRosa]

She was his wife. Person got residuals. What?

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Reportedly only the only cast member to receive residuals when the broadcast. Oh, because they had to change that later. Yeah, they. You know, that's where those strikes and the writers union and the sag, all that stuff plays a part because you get. I got residuals for news radio, and they're not what you think they are. Like, people think it's. It's. It's gonna, like, change your life. You never have to work again. That's only for the people like Jerry Seinfeld that own the show.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

The regular people that get residuals. It's nice. It's a good thing, but it's. It makes sense. They're showing the fucking show over and over and over. Again, it's still your work. Yeah, you know, it does make sense. You're reselling it so it's not the original deal that you had to put it on NBC for one hour. Now it's like a thing where you're gonna sell it again and so all the actors get paid again. It makes sense.

[Matt McCusker]

Dude, I've told you this before, I'm gonna tell you again. So it's documented, and I know you're not that interested, but you need to fucking keep acting, dude. You're fucking great on that show. That is not easy, in my opinion. Multicam sitcom, despite it being the easiest job in show business as far as payment time versus reward, it is the hardest type of acting because it is an acting where you have to land jokes and gags and you have to make it convincing. That is very, very, very hard to do. You are so fucking good on that show. And I watch news radio all the time still. I told you last time I was here was one of the things that got me through Covid was doing news radio front to back. You need that. You need to keep at it.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's very nice of you. Thank you very much. But I think your idea of what's very hard to do and my idea of what's very hard to do are two. Totally. Because the acting on a sitcom is easy as fuck.

[Matt McCusker]

Okay?

[Joe DeRosa]

So it's boiling water.

[Matt McCusker]

You know what?

[Joe DeRosa]

You know what this is? This is Joe derosa in the green room of the mothership. You know what? How many times do you have to say that in a night?

[Matt McCusker]

I go to that green room. You're all fucking. I'll go after you, dude, you walk funny. You look diseased. It's just not stuff.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's fucking easy if you're a comic. It's easy if you're used to doing stand up in front of a live audience. That's a lot harder. And then the. The acting they like, they give you. Especially if you're working with great people. You know, I was doing scenes with Dave Foley and Maura Tierney and all those. They were amazing. The cast was incredible. Kathy, excuse me, Vicky Lewis, Andy Dick, Candy Alexander.

[Matt McCusker]

But I will.

[Joe DeRosa]

Stephen Root, they were incredible.

[Matt McCusker]

I will say this to you, though. The fact that what you just said, it's easy, is why I think you should be doing it. I think you are a natural fucking actor and I think you're.

[Joe DeRosa]

Let's just pretend, dude. It doesn't listen. It's not Daniel. I've never done Daniel Day Lewis acting. That's like the real acting. Val Kilmer acting.

[Matt McCusker]

Right in.

[Joe DeRosa]

In Tombstone. That's real acting.

[Matt McCusker]

I think you could.

[Joe DeRosa]

I don't want to do it. I'm not interested.

[Matt McCusker]

That's interesting.

[Joe DeRosa]

If I had another life. If I had another life. I love movies. I love. You know. It's a great show. A great show. It's called Lucky. It's on Apple. It's about. What is that lady's name with the big eyes? First episode. She's really beautiful, but very unusual looking. What is her name again? Anna Taylor? Joy. Is that her name? So she was in the Queen's Gambit. She killed it in the Queen's Gambit. Anya. Anya.

[Matt McCusker]

From the Witch. Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

Is she in that, too?

[Matt McCusker]

She's. I think that was her first movie, was the Witch.

[Joe DeRosa]

I didn't watch the Witch. No one in my family will watch it with me.

[Matt McCusker]

Me.

[Joe DeRosa]

I want to watch it. I try. I'm a giant Robert Eggers fan. I think he murdered Nosferatu. I think it was the best vampire movie by far of all time.

[Matt McCusker]

Nosferato was dope. The Lighthouse was dope.

[Joe DeRosa]

You've seen the werewolf? The werewolf trailer that's coming out.

[Matt McCusker]

Okay.

[Joe DeRosa]

Don't you okay me, son of a bitch.

[Matt McCusker]

I have. I have.

[Joe DeRosa]

Don't you okay me, son of a.

[Matt McCusker]

Here's what I will say.

[Joe DeRosa]

What the fuck are you gonna say?

[Matt McCusker]

I love Robert Eggers. I'm not knocking it, but it's the fourth movie he's released. We're in the trailer. I see black and white footage and a lot of people twitching.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's what you need. That's what I'm looking for.

[Matt McCusker]

I'm like, all right. I just.

[Joe DeRosa]

Come on.

[Matt McCusker]

I don't know if it's gonna be different.

[Joe DeRosa]

This looks phenomenal.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, it's.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's phenomenal. Of course he's twitching. He's turning into a werewolf. There's fuck is wrong with you, Derosa?

[Matt McCusker]

There's no world where it'll be a bad movie.

[Joe DeRosa]

No world doesn't exist. That guy knocks it out of the park. A plus. Every movie. The Wiz, the Northman. Have you seen that?

[Matt McCusker]

I did.

[Joe DeRosa]

Fuck. You didn't love that.

[Matt McCusker]

I didn't love it.

[Joe DeRosa]

Get out of this room.

[Matt McCusker]

I didn't. No.

[Joe DeRosa]

Go home.

[Matt McCusker]

You. You stop.

[Joe DeRosa]

Go home. I'll tell everybody about your special after you leave. You son of a bitch. How could you not like the Northman?

[Matt McCusker]

I wanted more battles. I wanted more like.

[Joe DeRosa]

It was perfection. A.

[Matt McCusker]

You know what took me out of the Northman?

[Joe DeRosa]

He might be my favorite Director of all time.

[Matt McCusker]

You know what took me out of the Northman?

[Joe DeRosa]

What?

[Matt McCusker]

What?

[Joe DeRosa]

You being a pussy.

[Matt McCusker]

No, take it easy. No, I'll tell you what took me out of it. Nicole Kidman having full plastic surgery in 1650 or whatever. It was taking me out of it. It was fucking me up.

[Joe DeRosa]

Let me see what she looks like back then. Anya Taylor Joy's in this movie too, is she? She's in the Northman. Of course she is. She rules. She rules.

[Matt McCusker]

But I think Edgar's does great work. Or Eggers. Excuse me, does great work.

[Joe DeRosa]

Oh, dude, he's the best. I think he's my favorite director of all time. Next to Tarantino. Tarantino's always going to be number one, but this guy's. Because I feel like there's, like, levels to movies, and I think Tarantino is. He's the undeniable peak of the mountain. And then everything else is pretty dope. The here, Scorsese's got some murder, he's got some killers. A bunch of those guys have a few lemons.

[Matt McCusker]

Well, I mean, you're gonna. You're gonna have some lemons when you. When. I mean, Scorsese's output is incredibly high. And it's like, of course you're gonna have a few duds.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, this is one of the reasons why Tarantino is the goat is because he figured out how to have no lemons other than death proof, which Tony loves. We argue about it all the time. So I don't see plastic surgery. Nicole Kidman, they showed her for a second. Yeah, she looked good.

[Matt McCusker]

I don't think she's in the trailer a lot.

[Joe DeRosa]

Let me see. Nicole kid been. And that was a long movie. That was a long time ago, this movie, right? What year was this?

[Matt McCusker]

It's probably the Northman pre Covid, I think.

[Joe DeRosa]

I think so. I think it's like 2017 or 18. Does that say, Jamie?

[Matt McCusker]

I'm amazed with Robert Eggers that he gets wide release theatrical releases with the types of movies he does.

[Joe DeRosa]

I think it's because they sell. They sell, dude. I mean, they're so good. They're so good. People love them and they go to see them. I mean, it's really that simple. What year was it, Jimmy? Four years ago ago. Oh, really? That was only four years ago. Oh, crazy. See if you could find a photo of Nicole Kidman from that.

[Matt McCusker]

And I'm obviously not saying the movie's bad because Nicole Kidman had plastic surgery, but it did. It does take me out of it when I see somebody doing A period piece with.

[Joe DeRosa]

See, that doesn't look like plastic surgery to me. She looks totally normal.

[Matt McCusker]

Maybe it's just because I remember.

[Joe DeRosa]

Maybe you just wanted to have plastic surgery because you're a hater.

[Matt McCusker]

I'm not on. Nicole Kidman seemed to be a little

[Joe DeRosa]

bit of a hater. She looks perfect.

[Matt McCusker]

She's got a. Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

What are you saying? Perfect Work A little work. I don't see work, dude. I see a beautiful face. You son of a. Is wrong with you? Don't you go so down there when she's with Anya. Taylor Joy. Right there. That's her right there. So that. That looks a little fillery. Unfortunately, that look, I think, has gone away, though. I think ladies are realizing that nobody likes it.

[Matt McCusker]

No.

[Joe DeRosa]

The filler face. Did you see the trailer for this thing? The Neuromancer? No. So what's this? Nerds are super pumped. This is like the story where, like, oh, I've heard the Matrix came out of this. So I. It's gonna be a TV show. Actually, it's not even a movie.

[Matt McCusker]

Wait, how do you mean the Matrix

[Joe DeRosa]

came out of, like, jacking in and stuff like that? Yes. Who wrote that book? Top my head, from 1984? William William Gibson. Yeah. This is supposed to be a movie that people were concerned was, like, impossible to tran. Or a book, rather, that people were concerned with impossible to translate into a film correctly.

[Matt McCusker]

Okay.

[Joe DeRosa]

I don't know why, because I haven't read the book, but I've read that argument, like, there's no way you're ever gonna really nail this Jackson. And now he's, like, in some new space, which I don't. Again, I haven't read it either. I don't know spoiler alert or anything. So I don't know much about it, but people are very pumped that they attempted this. And it looks cool.

[Matt McCusker]

But wait a second. Did the Matrix just take all of its ideas from this?

[Joe DeRosa]

No. Here, I'll find out what I mean when I said that.

[Matt McCusker]

Okay.

[Joe DeRosa]

Lucky. Watch this. So lucky. It's on Apple tv. It only has seven episodes, and it's only gonna be one season.

[Matt McCusker]

I think I just started watching the shards, which I'm feeling.

[Joe DeRosa]

The term cyberspace came out of that book. And then, like, there you go. A consensual. Yeah, consensual hallucination experience daily by billions of authorized. The Matrix actually itself, I think came out of there. Oh, well, that's common, right? That's common. He's. He was ahead of his time. He figured it out.

[Matt McCusker]

So now this is a weird thing. Okay. And this is a thing you notice with, with these directors that break through and do an amazing first movie and then it's kind of followed by a lot of ho hum stuff.

[Joe DeRosa]

You mean the Matrix?

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, well, the Wachowskis. The Matrix was this cultural phenomenon. It changed everything and blah, blah, blah, blah. Their movies after that. Except for maybe V for Vendetta, none of them really ever lived up to that. So now we're seeing this and I'm like, well, did they just get all the great ideas for the Matrix from this other thing? And then they made a great movie and then that's why they were never able to kind of hit that again. Every Matrix sequel is terrible.

[Joe DeRosa]

They're literally jacking in the same exact way through the back of the head. Yeah, it's the same thing.

[Matt McCusker]

And they're saying the term the Matrix came out of the.

[Joe DeRosa]

This. That's crazy.

[Matt McCusker]

Like, I thought they made that up.

[Joe DeRosa]

You know, they got sued too, because some lady wrote, I think it was a graphic novel. It might have been a short story, a graphic novel. I forget what it was, but she wrote a. A story and brought it to them, apparently. Well, she also said she wrote the Terminator for both. So is she just a kook?

[Matt McCusker]

That's a kook.

[Joe DeRosa]

She had a manuscript titled the third eye from 1980s and she. Yeah, I saw this story.

[Matt McCusker]

I remember when. Yeah, let me, let me tell you why she's a kook.

[Joe DeRosa]

Harlan story.

[Matt McCusker]

Well, because he mentioned the Terminator. Harlan Ellison wrote an episode of the Outer Limits called Demon. It was called Demon with the Glass Hand. Harlan Ellison sued James Cameron when the Terminator came out. And he goes, that's my fucking story. I did it on the Outer limits in the 60s and Harlan Ellison got paid. And they were like, yeah, it's actually kind of the same thing.

[Joe DeRosa]

Huh.

[Matt McCusker]

So this lady did not write the terminator in the 80s.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, it could be multiple influences, but it could be multiple inspirations. Right, right. It could be.

[Matt McCusker]

The worst one is.

[Joe DeRosa]

And I'm a fan, because let's, let's just. We're not accusing anyone of plagiarizing. No, but we're saying if someone was going to plagiarize, why wouldn't they plagiarize from multiple sources? You can't just say, just because he stole a giant chunk of it from that one episode of a show, that doesn't mean that he didn't steal a bunch of other stuff. And I'm not saying anybody stole anything.

[Matt McCusker]

Right, right.

[Joe DeRosa]

I don't think James Cameron stole a goddamn.

[Matt McCusker]

I don't think he saw anything. I think he saw it.

[Joe DeRosa]

He might not have even seen it. There's a lot of parallel thinking when it comes to this concept of AI and robots being like people. And they go. It's in Battlestar Galactica.

[Matt McCusker]

Sure.

[Joe DeRosa]

You know, I mean, it's like there's a lot of that where people become robots. It's in the Original alien movie, 1979. Remember?

[Matt McCusker]

Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

There's a fucking. An artificial intelligence. That is their guy.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

That they don't know is a robot until it has. I think they beat it to death. I think. How'd they find out that it's a robot?

[Matt McCusker]

It's.

[Joe DeRosa]

I think they. They kill it. They not knock its head off. And that's how they find out it's a robot.

[Matt McCusker]

Blanket on the act. It's. It's. Oh, God.

[Joe DeRosa]

The guy's a great actor.

[Matt McCusker]

He's one of my favorites. And I'm blanking on his name.

[Joe DeRosa]

So this is 79 that they did that. Right. So that's the Terminator. Like, these concepts have been around for a long time. The concepts of artificial intelligence taking over.

[Matt McCusker]

I think it was more the plot line of this. This robot comes back.

[Joe DeRosa]

Oh, in time.

[Matt McCusker]

It was something like that. Yeah. And I don't think James Cameron stole it either because there's no other evidence of him ever swiping something. But I do think, like, we all do this thing where we see something we don't remember. It goes into the subconscious. And maybe you go, I got a great idea. And you're not realizing, oh, actually, that's a thing I saw when I was 10.

[Joe DeRosa]

He's pretty intensely creative, like an original. I don't imagine that he would do that.

[Matt McCusker]

I would. I would hope not.

[Joe DeRosa]

I don't think so.

[Matt McCusker]

But Harlan Ellison did win the. The case.

[Joe DeRosa]

Interesting. I wonder how much he got. How much did Harlan Ellison get for that lawsuit? Did they disclose it or did they pay him just to shut the fuck up?

[Matt McCusker]

Well, Ellison is. I mean, he is. Everybody's. Everybody that loves sci fi. He's their favorite sci fi guy. Really. He is a guy.

[Joe DeRosa]

Bold statement.

[Matt McCusker]

He's the guy. Ellison is the guy you'd love. You should read up on Harlan Ellison. You would love.

[Joe DeRosa]

I probably should. There's not enough time to consume all the things. Yeah, there's so many things to consume. Dispute ended out of court settlement. There you go. Rather than a court ruling on what. So they just paid him to shut the up. So they probably gave Him a fact check.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, there it is. Soldier and Demon with the Glass Hand

[Joe DeRosa]

involve combatants from a future war arriving in the present, including a relentless futuristic soldier sent to kill. Ellison argued that the Terminator borrowed this core setup. Commentators often mentioned his Outer Limits episode, Demon with a Glass Hand, but Ellison himself reportedly said his principal claim concerned soldier, not that episode. So it seemed like it wasn't. Maybe there was more than one thing. Either way, you could. You know, it's like every werewolf movie is a guy gets bit by a werewolf.

[Matt McCusker]

Sure.

[Joe DeRosa]

You know, I mean, sure, you could say no one can make a werewolf movie anymore because the wolf man. Because you're all stealing from the wolf man.

[Matt McCusker]

Well, I think the difference is that's werewolf mythology.

[Joe DeRosa]

Right.

[Matt McCusker]

Overall, that's true versus. You know what I mean?

[Joe DeRosa]

That's true. Yeah, of course. Yeah. I mean, that's. Yeah. But bad example. It's not an original story, but you

[Matt McCusker]

would love Harlan Ellison because he was just. I'm sure my favorite story of his is he talked about when he was in college and he goes, my. My literary professor said I had no talent, so I got expelled because I punched him in the throat. He's a maniac. Maniac.

[Joe DeRosa]

How many bad teachers have ruined a kid's future by telling them they have no talent?

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, right.

[Joe DeRosa]

How many?

[Matt McCusker]

It's nuts.

[Joe DeRosa]

So many. There's so many stories like that. So many stories of some shitty teacher.

[Matt McCusker]

It's nuts. Did you have. When you were getting into. Well, well, how old were you when you said, I'm gonna go do comedy. I'm not gonna do any of the shit that I studied in school. I'm gonna.

[Joe DeRosa]

Actually, I barely studied in school. I only went to school because I didn't want to be a loser. Literally. I went to UMass Boston, like the continuing education program, so I didn't have to take my SATs. And I only went for three years. I was wasting my time. And the whole time I was doing it, I was fighting. And that was my primary concern. That was what I was thinking about. And I was teaching at Boston University.

[Matt McCusker]

Oh, you mean like. Like MMA fighting. Okay.

[Joe DeRosa]

Kickboxing and taekwondo.

[Matt McCusker]

Okay.

[Joe DeRosa]

And that was my concern. I really was the, the, the. But you tell people, you know, oh, what do you do? Oh, I'm a Taekwondo fighter. Fucking loser. You fucking loser. I'm totally. I would not tell. Dead. I'm going to school. I'm going to UMass Boston. That was literally. That's what I was doing.

[Matt McCusker]

Oh, my God, that's so funny.

[Joe DeRosa]

Four time state Taekwondo champion had fought all over the country.

[Matt McCusker]

I didn't know that. Yeah, I knew you had fighting in your background. You were a champ and stuff.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, I was really good when I was young at Taekwondo. I was really good.

[Matt McCusker]

What made you switch gears from that to go into comedy?

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, first of all, there's no future in it. There was no future. I tried out for the Olympics in 88. I made it to the nationals. I won the States, and I went made to nationals. I made to the third fight in the nationals, and I lost. That was in Miami in 88. And then I realized, like, I wasn't as enthusiastic about it anymore. Oh, yeah, you got extra cigarettes?

[Matt McCusker]

Thank you. Yes. Look at that here.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, I knew you might for everybody.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

And then I was also getting brain damage, and I was very aware of that. I would lie in bed at night after sparring, and my head would be ringing, just throbbing, just boom, boom, boom, boom.

[Matt McCusker]

Jesus Christ.

[Joe DeRosa]

I was like, I'm doing this for free. There's no money in this. I'm not making any money.

[Matt McCusker]

Holy.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, I was sparring a lot, especially kickboxing, sparring. I was getting hit a lot. It was a lot of, like, kickboxing wars, and it was just not worth it. It was just not. And I was realizing, like, I gotta get out before I become that guy at the gym. Because there were some guys that I had met, and then I'd watch them deteriorate a little during the time that I knew them and I was training with them. I watched their personalities change. I watched them get, like, slower. Like, I could see their movement was compromised because they got brain damage. They'd been knocked out a few times. And I was realizing, like, oh, this is a. A real problem. And no one seems to be thinking about it. Everyone's, like, pretending it doesn't exist because they just want to be a tough guy, and they just want to fight and win, and it becomes the thing you do, and the thing you do is the only thing you know. And if that thing is bowling, then you bowl every night. You know, if that thing is golf, then you golf every day. If that thing is fighting, you're fighting all the time.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

And it was by the time I was. And I was also realizing there's no future in this. I'm not going to ever have any money. I'm always going to be poor. I'm always going to be, like, wondering where my next paycheck is coming from. This is. There's no money in this. And there was no UFC back then. And I got talked into doing stand up by my friends. That's literally how it started. This episode is brought to you by Black Rifle Coffee, the only coffee we drink here at the JRE studios. America's 250th birthday celebration may be over for some brands, but not for Black Rifle Coffee. They've celebrated America since their founding in 2014 and continue supporting the communities that make America strong. Last year they eliminated 34 million doll in Veterans Medical debt. That's real relief to families who served our nation. And this year they're doing it again, aiming to eliminate even more. Beyond financial support, Black Rifle lives its mission. Every month they send their employees to support initiatives by the Boot campaign, Folds of Honor and others giving back to veterans, first responders and their families. Every bag, box or can directly supports that mission. You can grab killer roasts like just Black. That's my favorite spirit of 76. Or the extra caffeinated. Waken the neighbors at Walmart, your local Black Rifle coffee shop. Or if you're in Texas at H E B. Veteran founded American roasted. Black Rifle Coffee is America's coffee.

[Matt McCusker]

And then that was it. I mean, you moved fairly fast right through Standup.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, see, I did half hour comedy hour, MTV half hour comedy hour. I was like five years in, five years in the standup. And then I got on the television show Hardball, the show I did with Jim Brewer. Yeah, did that flew out here or flew out to California, rather. And that got canceled after six episodes. And then I got newsradio right away. So I only auditioned for two shows ever.

[Matt McCusker]

Wow.

[Joe DeRosa]

Hardball and News Radio. And I got both of them. It was the luckiest streak of all time. No acting. I took a couple of acting classes that I had to take. When Disney gave me the money, the first, first development deal, they said, do you know how to act? I'm like, I don't know. Why are you guys giving me money? It made no sense. Yeah, they just wanted to put me on a sitcom. And, you know, this was in the 90s when sitcoms was like Roseanne and Seinfeld. It was a gold mine. If you could find a personality that you thought was someone who would click on a sitcom that people would want to watch, you know, every Tuesday night or whatever it was they were, they were willing to pay you a lot of money. And then all of a sudden I was out in la. But it was never a desire of mine. So because it wasn't a desire of mine, I didn't get nervous. Like I Didn't get nervous during auditions. It was not an. It was not a thing where I'm like, this could change my life. This could be it. It was like, what am I doing here? Yeah, what is this? What am I doing here?

[Matt McCusker]

It's. It's. You're. You're good at it. That's what you're fucking doing there, man.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's not. It's not hard, dude. It's. Again, it's not real acting. It's not, you know, Marlon Brando. It's. It's. You're just pretending that this thing is happening in the newsroom. It's not hard. It's fucking easy. I'm. In the meantime, I'm doing jiu jitsu. I was still sparring back then, so I'd go to the Jet center and kickbox and spar. And so I'd go to work. I'm like, this is so easy. This is so easy compared to stand up and kickboxing.

[Matt McCusker]

Did you notice when you said you were noticing damage happening because your head throbbing and ringing, whatever. Did you notice any other effects or did you cut it off before any effects could actually, you know, like, long, like actual things that were affecting you?

[Joe DeRosa]

No, I didn't notice anything. Like I was compromised or I couldn't think well or I was forgetting things. It wasn't like that. I think I cut it off before I got that bad, but I definitely got some brain damage, 100%. And I think it plays a part of my impulsiveness and my, you know, I like scary things. I like things that make me nervous. I like things that are really hard to do. And I think that might be part of that. That I got rattled a bunch of times in my formative years. Yeah. Because from 15 to 21, who knows how many times I got hit in the head? It was a lot.

[Matt McCusker]

We're very different in that way. You're a guy that I think very much likes conquering the challenge, you know?

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, it keeps me sane. That's what keeps me sane. I think you make your. The voluntary things that you engage in that are way more difficult than the rest of your life. It makes the rest of your life easier because these hard things that you do voluntarily. Voluntary adversity, you force yourself to do hard things all the time. So then when other things that are seemingly hard come up, up, you're like, ah, this ain't shit. Compared to a cold plunge, this ain't shit. I just did a workout, a hypoxia workout. And so it's At. I have a box in my studio that goes to. It takes all the air out, so it puts you at the equivalent of 15,000ft above sea level. And you do this interval training. So you do sprints on the airdyne machine. You get off of that and you do these kettlebell cleans and presses or swings and you get off of. Then you do the sled and you push the sled or you do backwards on the sled and it's got varying resistance and you do them in these 52nd, 42nd and then 32nd sprints. So like everything else is easy.

[Matt McCusker]

God damn, dude. I'm just. I can't. I admire it. I admire the shit out of it.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, it's just for me, I think everybody should do something hard. It keeps me sane. For me, I need it. I don't know, you know, I'm not other people, I don't. I don't pretend to know how they feel, but I know how I feel. If I don't exercise regularly, I have more anxiety, I don't feel comfortable, I don't feel good. I'm more irritable. I don't like it. I don't like that feeling when I am, like when I work out really hard and I do the things that I'm supposed to do, I feel great, I feel friendly, I'm feel happy, I feel light. I feel like life is easy.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, it's a thing. I'm not blowing smoke. It's a thing I've noticed about you. You're a very, I would even say happy, go lucky kind of guy. Like, you're very friendly, you're always in a very good mood. I've very rarely seen you and I see you frequently now at the club. Very rarely seen you come in where you're like, eh, fuck. I don't think ever, to be honest with you. And it's. I guess everything you're saying, like it puts you in.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's a choice. It's a choice to feel like that, that, that don't do you any good unless you're trying to do something with that, this. Unless. Unless you've got some you have to get done. That's hard. And you want to have this attitude where you're gonna attack it like this, like regular life. Like why, why, why, why upset? Why, why? You're not in Gaza, right? What are you doing? You're not, you're not in Ukraine hiding in a fucking bunker. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah, what are you bitching about? Yeah, you're Living an easy life in America. And you're rich.

[Matt McCusker]

Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

Like, how dare I be upset?

[Matt McCusker]

Sure.

[Joe DeRosa]

How dare I?

[Matt McCusker]

Sure.

[Joe DeRosa]

Imagine.

[Matt McCusker]

Sure.

[Joe DeRosa]

With the fortune, the luck that I've had in this life, me being pissed off at things. That's why it doesn't bother me if people talk shit about me either. I'm like, okay, like, talk that shit. Have fun.

[Matt McCusker]

You could teach. Remember when YouTube was doing those master classes where, like, a guy would sit down, like, Steve Martin would be like, I'm gonna teach you how to do write comedy or whatever. And David Mamet did one on writing or whatever. You could do a masterclass on YouTube in how to let the shit roll off your back. Because I am astounded at how much it does not bother you when people are releasing clips and talking this and bull and it's all bullshit. Whatever. And you're just like, yeah, whatever, man.

[Joe DeRosa]

Have fun. Knock yourself out. Out. It doesn't. You can't stop people from having an opinion. There's always going to be people that have an opinion, and then in this market of hot takes, there's always going to be people, and their opinion is negative. Opinions are more valuable in terms of the commodity of attention. Attacking someone, being, you know, calling someone out. It's more valuable in this commodity.

[Matt McCusker]

Yes.

[Joe DeRosa]

And then there's people that have legitimate differing opinions of me, and they, you know, they don't like this and they don't like that. They don't like I said this or they don't like that. This person that I had on. What am I supposed to do? Address all of it, even think about it. I police myself as much as I can. Believe me. If I something up, I. I'm mad at me more than anybody's mad at me.

[Matt McCusker]

Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

So that way I get it out on my own. I don't need a lot of external validation. I don't need any. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in doing the best that I can. And I hope people like it. And that's it.

[Matt McCusker]

I w. The little gets me, man.

[Joe DeRosa]

I know.

[Matt McCusker]

I get.

[Joe DeRosa]

You need an outlet, Joe DeRosa. You need a physical outlet to calm your mind.

[Matt McCusker]

Yes.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's what you need. You need to get a trainer. Just hire a trainer. We talked about this.

[Matt McCusker]

We have been talking about it.

[Joe DeRosa]

Get a trainer, because you're not going to do it on your own. Get someone who you show up three times a week and they put you through the paces. And a smart trainer will do it nice and slow. So the first few workouts it won't even be that hard. You leave there, you'll feel, like, energized. You won't feel exhausted. You'll feel like, ah, all right, I did a little something feel good. And. And then he's like, okay, we're. This is a process. You know, we're gonna. We're gonna keep ramping this up slowly but surely, but you're never gonna be like, oh, my God, I can't move. I went to my trainer. He's killing me. My back is killing. I can't get off the couch. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. A good trainer is gonna look at you, ask you how. What have you been doing? When was the last time you worked out? How often you do. Okay. Okay, let's start here. And they'll start you off with some simple body weight stuff. They'll put you through some different mobility exercises, different stuff to just get the. Get the joints lubed up, get everything moving, and then build your body up nice and slow. Nice and slow.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. My boy Chuck, you know Chuck, Mexican OT's dad Chuck.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yes.

[Matt McCusker]

He. Chuck, right when you and I talked about. When you were like, you should get a trainer, Chuck said to me, unprompted, he goes, joe, let me train with you, dude.

[Joe DeRosa]

Take him up on it.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. And he goes, I'll come to your apartment. Let's just go, I'll come to your apartment.

[Joe DeRosa]

That guy's jacked. Yeah, take him up on it. He knows what he's doing.

[Matt McCusker]

And he said everything you just said. He goes, we're gonna go slow. It's not gonna be this overwhelming thing. Cause I get overwhelmed easily, obviously. And I was like, chuck, it's gonna be too much, and I'm gonna start. And he goes, we're not gonna do that. We're gonna take it really slow. Let me just come to your place, and whatever. And so I think I'm gonna start doing it with them because I just need to.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah. If you go to the wrong trainer, there's some trainers out there that are meatheads, or they don't really know what they're doing, and they'll beat you down. And they're like, we're gonna push it today. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You can't push it when someone doesn't work out. When someone doesn't work out, you go nice and slow, nice and easy. And then you slowly build up to the point where you can push it. Right. You don't take a Prius and you drive it around the racetrack Sideways. Right. It's not designed for that. The. The suspension's gonna fall off, the wheels are gonna. There's no traction. You got no tires. Right. You're gonna have to build up everything.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

And then once it gets built up, then you can push it. So once you get in, look at Jelly Roll. Jelly Roll lost literally almost 300 pounds, which is crazy. Now he's running on the treadmill. He did six miles when we came in to do a podcast. We were all working out together and he's fucking run it on the treadmill while we're talking. We're talking. He can breathe, he can talk, and he's running at a good clip. Got in the sauna with me, did the whole thing. When I first met him, he's £500, could barely make it up to the stairs to the comedy club. He couldn't walk up the stairs. Now he's fit, now he's healthy, he runs all the time. So it's just a process of building to get to that place. He did that show. McConaughey has this benefit every year, and we went to the benefit and he performed at the benefit. And he's on stage and we were backstage watching it. And so we're like in the. Me and Tony and his girl and my wife were in the corner watching this. Jelly gets off stage and there's a railing, like a ramp to get off. He grabs the railing and hops over it and lands on the other side. I go, dude, do you know what you just did? I go, you used to be £500 and now you just jumped over that railing like a cat.

[Matt McCusker]

That's wild.

[Joe DeRosa]

It was amazing.

[Matt McCusker]

That's wild.

[Joe DeRosa]

He was so happy. He's like, isn't this crazy? I'm like, it's crazy. Look what you've done.

[Matt McCusker]

That's wild.

[Joe DeRosa]

And that's what you have to do. You have to. And it took him years. And that's how you have to do it. It has to be slowly but sure. But along the way, you'll feel better every step of the way. It's not amount. It's not about breaking your body down down. It's about slowly introducing movement and some physical exercise and then building upon that. 10 push ups in a day, then the next day you try 12, and then a week later you're doing 15. And then two weeks after that, maybe you can do 20 in a row or three weeks, a month, two months, whatever it is. Everybody's got their own timing body weight, squats. Very simple. Start with 10. No big deal. Get to 90 degrees. Pack up just. Just enough just to get the blood moving. Walking is great. You know what's really great? Walking with a weighted vest. Not that hard to do. Put a 20 pound vest on, 25 pound vest on. Walk around the block. Yeah, it's great for you.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

There's a lot of different things that you could do that don't crush you. And then you're just gonna feel a little better. You'll have a little bit of more, you know, vitality, more blood flow, and then you build upon that. That's the key.

[Matt McCusker]

I was building slow. I was doing three days a week, and it was getting better and better and better. And then end of the summer hit, August hit. I started going on the road again. And all of a sudden it starts to taper off because you're like, now I gotta fly on this day when I'm usually doing my thing and I got lazy and I gotta get back into it. I gotta get back into it. But the good thing is that this, with what you're saying, with the slow build, when I start again, I'm able to start where I stopped. I'm able to start there again. You know what I mean?

[Joe DeRosa]

Right. Rather than where you began.

[Matt McCusker]

Exactly.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's great.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, that's.

[Joe DeRosa]

Listen, man, it's all about momentum. Discipline is very important, but really, momentum makes discipline a lot easier. You know, it's like you say, oh, you've got really good discipline. Like, sorta. I get started. Once you get started, it's more about momentum than it is about discipline.

[Matt McCusker]

Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

And then it's also about writing things down. If you just write it down, you have to do it right. You write it down and make a check. That way, instead of like keeping this thing in my head, oh, I'm just gonna figure out my own workout. I'll do this, I'll do that. No, I have a whiteboard. I write down the whiteboard. This is what we're doing. And then you just do it.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. I had a list in my phone. These are your exercise. 20 reps of each of these. And I just kept adding exercises to you.

[Joe DeRosa]

I don't know a good app, but I'm. There's some out there that are like a really good workout app that'll vary a workout every day based upon your level, based upon, like, you know, how much experience you have.

[Matt McCusker]

I try. It's there. Can the apps get confusing? I tried a couple of them and

[Joe DeRosa]

there's got to be a good one out there. I Just don't know what they are.

[Matt McCusker]

It's a lot of questions that I'm like, I don't know, man.

[Joe DeRosa]

Because they're trying to make it good. They're going to try to make an app that, you know, gives you what you need.

[Matt McCusker]

Need. But yeah, exercise apps, again, there's, there's good ones, I'm sure, but exercise apps kind of became like dating apps where there's a million that are all saying, we're gonna change your life in three days. And you're like, I think most important

[Joe DeRosa]

is a real good trainer is more important because he can correct your form in real time. Tell you why. Don't do it like that. You're gonna hurt your back. Don't do it like this. You're putting too much pressure on this and that and you're not balanced. Whatever it is, he can get you to do it correctly, which is more important than any. Anything.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

When. Especially once you start actually lifting weights. You know Pavel Tatsulin, who's the, he's the guy who really brought kettlebells to popularity in America. It's Russian cat and great system of training and. But one of the things that he said that really stuck with me, said strength is a skill and you should think of strength as a skill.

[Matt McCusker]

Okay.

[Joe DeRosa]

So like when you're working on your skills, like kettlebell cleans and presses, you shouldn't be exhausted. You should do he does instead of doing it to failure. You know, like a lot of people like to work to fail. Like, imagine you can clean and press £50 10 times until you're like really exhausted and on the 10th time, you're like kind of cooked. Don't do 10, you do five.

[Matt McCusker]

Right?

[Joe DeRosa]

Just do five and then wait a long time, wait like five minutes, rest up completely and then do another five. Do it that way. That's interesting because that way you're always fresh and you're, you're working on skill. You're still getting the same amount of repetition, but you're not torturing your tissue. You're not taxing your system. You're learning and you're not taking any shortcuts. You're not moving weird, you know, you know, like leading into something in a weird way. You're gonna hurt yourself because you're all out of line. You're doing everything with correct form because you're not exhausted.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

But you're still getting the same amount of work in the rest.

[Matt McCusker]

Time is interesting because I always thought, well, like I was doing two different types of push ups. I was doing the fucking 45, finger spread down, hold up, whatever. And I could get through 20 of those. Initially I couldn't. And then when I was able to get through 20, I was like, holy shit. And then I was doing a different push up with the arms back like this and those. When I got to that, I'd hit 10 and I'd be like, fuck. And then I'd sit for a minute and then a minute would go by and I'd be like, you gotta do the other ten. Cause if you wait too long. I always thought waiting too long was a bad thing.

[Joe DeRosa]

Thing.

[Matt McCusker]

But you're saying no, actually rest five minutes, take a breath.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah. There's nothing wrong with it as long as you have the time to do the same amount of reps. You just want to get enough work in so that your body forces adaptation. It doesn't have to be all to failure. Now again, depends on what we're trying to do, right? If you're trying to build up muscular endurance, then yeah, you go to failure. It depends on what you're trying to do. If you're just trying to get stronger, that's a different thing. And then, you know, obviously I do different kinds of workouts. Like the workout I did today, this, it's all exhaustion stuff, it's all sprinting. It's not like the kettlebell stuff. This is all high altitude and it's all like maximum intensity on the Airdyne bike, maximum intensity on the sled, maximum intensity on the kettlebell cleans. You're beating yourself up because you're only doing it for 50 seconds and then. Or 60 seconds, 40 seconds and then 30 seconds. So it's like I do a bunch of different kinds of exercises, but when I do like strength stuff, I don't ever do it to failure.

[Matt McCusker]

Can you do. Is there a thing like some people go the hundred push ups a day, whatever, that's their thing. I always wondered, well, is it the same if you do 100 push ups just throughout the day?

[Joe DeRosa]

100%. 100%.

[Matt McCusker]

Doesn't matter if you start at 9 and finish at 3.

[Joe DeRosa]

Farmers don't lift hay to fail failure, right? They pick up a bale of hay, they chuck it under the pile, they go back to get another one, they pick up a bale of hay, they chuck it on the pile to go back to get another one. They push a wheelbarrow, they hammer a post down, they do a bunch of different things. They do it all throughout the day, but they're never doing anything where they're just very rarely, at least where they're lying flat on their back breathing, like they think they're gonna have a heart attack.

[Matt McCusker]

Right?

[Joe DeRosa]

They never have that. They never get to the point where they're dropping the bale of hay because their arms are shaking and they're like one more rep, but yet they get ridiculous, ridiculously strong.

[Matt McCusker]

Right. Why?

[Joe DeRosa]

Because of all the work. It doesn't have to be work to failure. And in our mind, we think, oh, you have to go to failure in order to get stronger.

[Matt McCusker]

Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

And again, we're talking about very specific things. Getting stronger using kettlebells especially. But you could do dumbbells and other things as well. If you're. Now if you're doing something else, like if you're trying to get maximum amount of bench press, if you're trying to like win a competition or maximum amount of chin ups you can do, then it's a different thing. We're talking about a different thing. But if you're just talking about overall building strength for your body, the most important thing is volume, I think.

[Matt McCusker]

Okay.

[Joe DeRosa]

And, and it's if you can, like I said, I think this principle that Pavel Tatsuline has is a really good one that Instead of doing 10, if you do 10 to failure, do five. Five, wait a while, do five again. And I think it lessens the opportunity to get injured. You're. You're much less likely to get injured doing it that way. I'm very rarely injured from working out. Very rare from just kettlebell stuff. Like, very rarely.

[Matt McCusker]

Right. All right, all right. You're inspiring me to, to hop back in and, and, and start doing it again. I gotta, I've really.

[Joe DeRosa]

You just gotta get somebody to help you. You know, get Mexican Otis De dad.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Get him to help you. Yeah, he knows what he's doing.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, yeah. No, that dude's Jack.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, that's. That's perfect guy. And he's the way. What he said is the right. Like he knows what he's doing. That's why he's the, the guy to get you doing it nice and slow and just build you up. And also he's fun. He's cool to hang out with.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, that.

[Joe DeRosa]

You like that too. You don't want to be an annoying trainer. It's always asking you to post about him on Instagram. You know what I mean? You think you post. I got an energy drink I'm trying to promote.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You get those DMS from gu.

[Joe DeRosa]

Exhausting. Yeah.

[Matt McCusker]

All right, I'm back there.

[Joe DeRosa]

You go. You're back.

[Matt McCusker]

I'm back in, baby bro, I read

[Joe DeRosa]

the craziest thing today, and I need to find out if it's true. I sent you the thing that Nick Fuentes was talking about. Jamie. So apparently there was this plot where Iran was trying to kill Trump. Remember when he was supposed to get in the Air Force One that Cotter gave him and then instead he flew in the old Air Force One.

[Matt McCusker]

Okay, okay.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, they're saying that he actually didn't even go in the old Air Force One, that they snuck him out on a truck, okay. Like some fucking cargo truck.

[Matt McCusker]

Okay.

[Joe DeRosa]

And then put him in another kind of plane and flew him out of there. And then they put the press in Air Force One because they were think. They were apparently worried they were going to target Air Force One as well. So imagine Trump put the press on Air Force One, and they were thinking about possibly targeting them.

[Matt McCusker]

Holy shit.

[Joe DeRosa]

He hid in an airport catering container and was taken to a military jet for a secret flight out of the country after the NATO summit last month. And this is being reported by the New York Times. The thing is, though, I think they put the press on Air Force One. So if they flew him out because they were worried they were going to try to take down Air Force One, and they're. They took the press. If you take the press off, then they know that you're right. We're playing games. Just everything's normal. Exactly. And if the press dies. So sad.

[Matt McCusker]

Oh, my.

[Joe DeRosa]

You just get more pressed.

[Matt McCusker]

That's wild.

[Joe DeRosa]

If that's true. That is so wild that he didn't even tell them. Hey, guys, we're not really gonna get on this plane. No one's getting on this plane. You guys get out of here. Here, go take American Airlines home. No, he's like, hop on. It's safe. Yeah, it's Air Force One, guys.

[Matt McCusker]

My gift to you. Take care, Force One. Enjoy it. There's food out there. Sandwiches on there. Enjoy yourself.

[Joe DeRosa]

Is that absolutely what happened? Says reporters on the older plane were not told that Mr. Trump had not flown with them from Turkey to an air base in Britain, making them unwitting participants in the ruse and leaving them, along with some White House staff members, to serve. Serve as unknowing decoys.

[Matt McCusker]

Holy.

[Joe DeRosa]

After they arrived in Britain, he was secretly moved back to the older version of Air Force One.

[Matt McCusker]

Bro. Jesus Christ.

[Joe DeRosa]

Those press people were signing up for something they didn't know. They didn't know what they were signing up for, and they didn't tell them. At all that when you want to know, like, who's more important, you or the president, that's when you find out. They just throw you on Air Force One shrimp cocktail. It's boom. All of a sudden, you turn into protons.

[Matt McCusker]

It's like Goodfellas when he's telling Karen to go, go. Go down and get the dresses. There's dresses.

[Joe DeRosa]

No, I'm okay. Karen.

[Matt McCusker]

Holy shit. That is fucking wild.

[Joe DeRosa]

Isn't that crazy?

[Matt McCusker]

That is fucking wild.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's crazy.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. Are they. Are they. Is there. Has there been backlash? Are they. Are they. Have they. Are. Jamie. Are they saying anything? Who?

[Joe DeRosa]

Who's saying anything?

[Matt McCusker]

The press.

[Joe DeRosa]

I would imagine they're a little perturbed. That would perturb me. Jesus Christ. That's so crazy.

[Matt McCusker]

Holy.

[Joe DeRosa]

Imagine if it blew up. It's like, I should have been there. I wanted to be there with them when they died.

[Matt McCusker]

They're heroes.

[Joe DeRosa]

He would probably talk shit about them.

[Matt McCusker]

Oh, my God. That is fucking.

[Joe DeRosa]

Maybe they had written nicer things about me.

[Matt McCusker]

I would have told them, oh, my God. Did you. I just watched. I just watched Michael, the Michael Jackson movie.

[Joe DeRosa]

How was.

[Matt McCusker]

Look, it's the first part of his life up till bad. They don't get into any of the crazy shit. They're saying they're making a sequel that they might get into the. Some of the crazy shit. But it was fun. I'm a big Michael Jackson fan. It was fun to watch. But I started reading up on Michael Jackson afterwards because I was like. It just. It was very nostalgic to watch. Do you know this? When he died, he was pronounced dead at Neverland Ranch. And they lied to the press and said that he was at a hospital already and pronounced dead because they had to get the body out of Neverland Ranch. And they knew if he. They pronounced him dead at Neverland Ranch, they wouldn't be able to get the fucking body. Body out of the goddamn house.

[Joe DeRosa]

Why?

[Matt McCusker]

Because they said the press would leak it, and the clamoring of fans and whatever else would literally have blocked them from getting the. From transporting the body. So they had to lie and say, he's dead already, but he's at this hospital and it was a decoy because that's how famous he was. They were like, we can't drive his dead body from this location to another or we're never going to get it there.

[Joe DeRosa]

Steal the body. I want to get a finger.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, something.

[Joe DeRosa]

We get a finger. People have garden clippers, something. Try to steal.

[Matt McCusker]

And here's another crazy thing, because I know you've talked about the Michael Jackson, like, the conspiracies around his death on the show before. There's another crazy thing I didn't know he owned. You know, he had that vast music catalog that he bought of music publishing, right? He owned the Beatles, Beatles, Eminem. He bought Eminem.

[Joe DeRosa]

He bought Eminem.

[Matt McCusker]

Eminem made fun of him in a video. And he bought Eminem's catalog as a. Fuck you, the most pimp move ever. I'm gonna buy all your music, gangster. Yeah, yeah, right? So he owns his catalog, right? It's. It's. It's. I think he. He might have owned Dylan. It was crazy that the. The rights to the music that he owned was nuts, right? He's with Sony. Sony wants the publishing back on all these artists, and he owns it. And when he did his last album, he had to take out a loan against the record company of $200 million to do the album because he didn't have a lot of money left. And they said, you got to put up collateral. And he goes, all right, I'm gonna. I'll put up a portion of the catalog as collateral. And then before he died, he. He goes, they're not promoting my album. And because they're not promoting my album, it's not selling. And then everybody close to him said it was a ruse. They didn't promote the album on purpose so that he would lose the fucking catalog because he wouldn't be able to pay the loan back. And then right after that, he died really fucked up.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's the business he was in. Yeah, you buy people's shit, they fuck you over. That's how it works.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. Yeah, it's.

[Joe DeRosa]

Come on, man.

[Matt McCusker]

Well, it's dark.

[Joe DeRosa]

You're playing war. You play in war. If they blow up Air Force One, you got to go, hey, maybe we shouldn't have fucking killed the leader during Ramadan. This is how it works. This is the game we're in.

[Matt McCusker]

This is the business we chose.

[Joe DeRosa]

He's in the business of fucking over his enemies. They decided he was their enemy. They fucked him over.

[Matt McCusker]

The doctor that administered the drug that killed him is out of jail already two years. And they're like, no, this guy was just a fall guy.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, the thing about the doctor is he was asking the doctor to do that. The doctor shouldn't have done that. It's not like the doctor killed him on purpose. Like, he wanted to get anesthetized. I think he was so crazy that he couldn't sleep. He was so out of his fucking mind. And he was probably on a bunch of stuff. He probably wasn't just on Propofol. If you're willing to take Propofol to go to sleep, what else are you taking?

[Matt McCusker]

Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

You're taking some other things. Yeah, Right. The doctor. The one thing that he said that I found very fascinating was that he said that Michael had been chemically castrated when he was young to maintain his voice.

[Matt McCusker]

I've heard that.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah. And it makes sense. It completely makes sense. If you look at his body, it makes sense. His body looks like it's devoid of testosterone.

[Matt McCusker]

Yes.

[Joe DeRosa]

It has no testosterone. He's very thin. If you look at his brothers, they're all. They're all thick. They're all, like, big dudes. Yeah, Jermaine. They're all like men. They look like men. Like, thick men.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

He looks thin, and he looks very different than them. That's not normal. Yeah, that's not normal. That is. That's not even normal if you don't work out. And he was a dancer, so he was incredibly athletic. Right. So in all the working out that he did, he should have been supple. I mean, he was. Obviously. He could move so good. I mean, he was. His movement was incredible. Did you ever see that Bob Fosse movie that apparently he got all those moves from?

[Matt McCusker]

The one. Well, okay, so which. The miniseries that Sam Rockwell was in or all that Jazz?

[Joe DeRosa]

There was a movie. No, before that, a long earlier. And it's Bob Fosse doing all the dance moves that Michael Jackson did.

[Matt McCusker]

I know what movie you're talking about. It's him and, like, a little kid and he's in the desert and doing. Yes.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's literally all of Michael Jackson's signature dance moves come from this one movie. Watch this. Watch how he moves.

[Matt McCusker]

Yep.

[Joe DeRosa]

So there's this. He's doing this, but then he also moonwalks. Like, look at this. Like, all this. This is Michael Jackson.

[Matt McCusker]

Wow.

[Joe DeRosa]

I mean, 100%.

[Matt McCusker]

Yo. Wow.

[Joe DeRosa]

Look at this. The kick and the point with the toes and putting it down. The movement here. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's literally every movie does. Look at that. That point with the kick and the

[Matt McCusker]

toes, even the outfit.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's a 1974 movie. The little Prince. Yeah, Little Prince, rather.

[Matt McCusker]

Even the outfit with the fedora, bro.

[Joe DeRosa]

I mean, literally, he mirrored his movements.

[Matt McCusker]

It is incredible that Bob Fosse had the stamina and ability to keep dancing like that for his entire life until he dropped dead. Because if you watch the Sam Rockwell miniseries, Fosse and Virden, which is an amazing miniseries. That guy, bro, he was. I mean, it was intake. That's all it was. He'd wake up, he's popping fucking pills. Speed. Boom, boom, boom. Coke, booze, cigarettes. All day long, chain smoking, chain smoking, smoking, chain, drunk through the whole fucking day, popping pills, doing coke. And the fact that he could still stand and not just stand, choreograph Broadway shows for hours and be that agile and whatever is. That's insane to me.

[Joe DeRosa]

Because he loved it.

[Matt McCusker]

It's insane.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's the thing. Find the thing you love. Find that thing, and you will have the energy to pursue it. It's really it.

[Matt McCusker]

But. But aren't you a little amazed that his intake of substance would not hinder

[Joe DeRosa]

it in any way? It's kind of crazy, you know, But, I mean, we've seen that before, you know?

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, yeah, there's. Yeah, yeah, I hear you.

[Joe DeRosa]

There's people that have unreal tolerances, like Shane with booze. It's unreal when you see him £16 bud lights, and not a slur, not a stamina, nothing. Doesn't miss a beat, puts the sunglasses on, starts getting crazy. Like we do protect our parks. And he'll have a stack of empties at the end. You're like, that is insane. You should be dead. You should literally be dead.

[Matt McCusker]

My favorite chain story ever. Ever. I don't mean to tell his story, but this is my favorite chain story ever. And I was. The other day, I go, dude, you have to do that on tires. It's so funny. He said he ate chicken fingers and he felt sick. And he goes to the doctor because he's like, I think I have food poisoning or something. Like something's wrong, right?

[Joe DeRosa]

So he goes.

[Matt McCusker]

The doctor goes, you know, he's asking all the questions, how much do you do this? Whatever? And he goes, how many drinks do you have in a week? And Shane said he took a beat and he's like, I'm gonna be honest for once. And he goes, 80.

[Joe DeRosa]

80's so crazy. Oh, that's so crazy.

[Matt McCusker]

He said. The doctor starts laughing. He goes, no, come on, man, seriously. And he goes, 80. The doctor goes, it's not the chicken fingers, man. You drink 80 drinks a week, right? And I go, what happened? He goes, I went home. I threw up. I was fine. The next day, it was the chicken fingers, Dude. We were at. We were at Chappelle's summer camp thing, the ranch thing. And we're hanging out, and I'm about to Go on. Shane goes, come on, man, have a drink. Have a drink. I go, dude, I already had two, man. Like, I gotta go on, dude. I gotta be cool. I gotta be careful. Like. He goes, have another drink, dude. You'll be fine. I go, shane, I don't want to be tipsy. He. He goes, what number drink is that for you? I go, three. He goes, I've had 17 Bud Lights. Have another fucking drink.

[Joe DeRosa]

He doesn't want to be alone in drunk land. He wants you to be there with him in happy drunk land. He's a happy drunk, though.

[Matt McCusker]

The best.

[Joe DeRosa]

I love him. He's so fun. He's such a fun dude. He's such a unique person. He's very different than anybody I've ever met. He's like. You would think by. You know, you hear him talk, you'd think, like, he's similar to someone, you know, but he's not no different, dude. Fucking smart as shit, too. Knows a fuckload about history.

[Matt McCusker]

Loves history.

[Joe DeRosa]

Loves it, man.

[Matt McCusker]

Loves history. And. And, yeah, he's a very unique specimen. He's. And. And as you said, a very fun drug. I was just down at the beach with him, and he was on the beach all day, and I was at the house. I. I called it early, and I was just kind of chilling out inside with McCusker and Tommy, watching a movie. We were just chilling, and Shane came back from the beach, and he was all fucking tuned up from White Claws wherever he was drinking. And I was laying on the. On this love seat in. In the room, watching the movie. And he just kept coming up to me and he's kept tickling me. He's going, come on, dog.

[Joe DeRosa]

Come on, dog.

[Matt McCusker]

Come on, dog. And I'm like. I'm like, you're awesome. You're fun. It's just. He's so fun, man.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, he's. He's life of the party. Him and Joey Diaz in a room together with everybody else is like, oh, my God, you got two enormous personalities. Life's at the party, in the room together.

[Matt McCusker]

Diaz kills me.

[Joe DeRosa]

He's the best, man. He's out here all the time now.

[Matt McCusker]

I know.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah. I mean, he's getting a place here at the end of the month, and he's gonna do a residency, so he's gonna do like two weeks a month he's gonna be here.

[Matt McCusker]

That's awesome.

[Joe DeRosa]

Oh, it's fucking incredible. It's incredible.

[Matt McCusker]

He's the best, man. He's the fucking best. It's so fun having an arrest. I was doing the last time he was here, I was doing my monthly my and friend show at the Mothership. And. And he was the first two. The first comic was on or whatever. And he goes, he's like, joe, could I go up on your show? And I go, of course. And he went up and it was just seeing the pop from the audience and just. I was like, man, this is fucking great, dude. It's fucking fun having him around.

[Joe DeRosa]

We're very lucky. We're very lucky. We got an amazing group of people around us all the time. It's a lot of fun.

[Matt McCusker]

And he said the funniest thing. We were talking about like diet and exercise and lifestyle change, you know, and Covid I was doing too much of this or that. And I go, when was your big change, man? He goes, joe, you know what day it was? It was the day of the fucking resurrection. And we go, what? And he goes, January 6th, the resurrection. We go, do you mean the insurrection? He goes, whatever the it was called. I don't give a.

[Joe DeRosa]

He used to call Khabib Nurmagomedov, Khalil Beeb, the Khalabib guy, you know, it's a part of his charm, fucking up people's names.

[Matt McCusker]

Oh my God, he's so funny. The best dude, man. He lives right near where my parents live in Jersey. And I was like, oh, dude, man, when I go see my folks, I'm gonna get in the car and drive up and hang out with you for a night. Cause it'll be such a great break from just being with my mom and dad. And he's just, he's the best man. He's just got a truly big hearted dude, man.

[Joe DeRosa]

I was really worried once he moved to New Jersey, we'd never get him out here because I went with him. We went out to eat. New Jersey. And he's the king of New Jersey. I'm like, everywhere we go, Joey cheer yelling his name, went to the restaurant. Everybody knows him. It was like immediately everybody's like running over to take care of us. Joey's here. Joey's here. And I'm like, oh, he's the king of New Jersey. He's never gonna leave. He's never gonna leave. He loves it here. But there wasn't enough comedy there for him.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Was it enough comics? And one of the things that I always say is that we don't exist in a vacuum. We always exist with each other. Comics in particular. You can't really do comedy by yourself. You can, but you can't do it to your Best. You need other people doing it around you. You need to see it. You need to be around it. The hang. The talking about bits in the green room is so huge. Like, Hasan has given me two killer taglines after, like, seeing. Seeing a bit and saying, what about this? Like, oh, my God, that's perfect.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Like, those things, like, we're always, like, tuning each other's up or reminding each other of a bit. I remember, like, I remembered Tony's bits better than Tony does sometimes, right? Like, I had to tell him how a bit goes. He's like, oh, my God, I forgot that. I'm like, dude, go do that. Go do that right now. He went up and did it right then and murdered.

[Matt McCusker]

That's great.

[Joe DeRosa]

And like, you forgot. You forgot the baby.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, it's. It's a very. It's a very. It's a very individualized sport in the sense of. Of golf, where you're playing, like, you're always playing against yourself, but it's a very communal sport in the sense that you're not playing necessarily in a literal sense with the team, like, like a sketch group would, but you're playing with the team. You know what I mean? The team is. Is in the green room. The team. You're playing with the team in the sense that your buddy is on before you, your buddy is on after you.

[Joe DeRosa]

You're all doing sets together.

[Matt McCusker]

And the game is. I gotta play my best game because I've gotta follow the guy that just had a good game, and I need the guy after me to have a good game so I can't fuck up his game. Yes. And it's a very interesting dynamic of team versus individual play.

[Joe DeRosa]

There's also just the atmosphere elevates you. And I noticed that for sure about the comedy story and the glory day days and the glory days, like 2014-2019, when we left, there was so much activity there. There was so many guys that were going up. There was so much good comedy that you would just get elevated just being around it. Like, it raised your own personal bar, like, what your high watermark was. And it just, you know, you're around, like, guys with really tight acts, and it just. It really helps. Helps everybody. It just. It's so important to be around other great comedy comics, you know, and that's why these hubs, like New York is so great for that LA and now Austin. It's like these hubs are so important because you really. We go on the road on the weekends. Right. That was the thing about the store but on Tuesday and Wednesday were some of the best nights, because on Tuesday and Wednesday it would be Jesel Neck Diaz, Greg Fitzsimmons Dam, over and over, Murderers Rough Burr would pop in, and maybe Chris Rock was in town. It was like, God damn, these nights were insane. They were so good.

[Matt McCusker]

I'll tell you the reason I moved to Austin and the thing that continues to be the greatest challenge for me here, in a good way, in a constructive way, because people say all the time to me online and shit, they'll be like, oh, you moved to Austin for kill, Tony? I'm like, I didn't fucking move to Austin for kill. I knew Tony and I were friends and I had done the show. I didn't become kind of a part of that show until after I lived here because Tony started to put me on and we started to have fun. And then it grew from there. You and I were buddies, but, like, we're much tighter as pals now than we were.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, we're around together all the time.

[Matt McCusker]

Exactly.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah.

[Matt McCusker]

So I moved here primarily for. Well, number one, I love Austin, and I always. And I used to live here, and I always wanted to go back. And once you could do comedy here, it was like a reason to go back. Right. And you could work. The other reason was I was like, I did New York, I did la, I won a new challenge, and there's a new scene now and all that stuff. But the thing that puts me on my toes the most and still does, is this is the best place for young comics to be able to pursue comedy because they can actually live here, they can afford it. New York has become unaffordable. LA has become unaffordable. A young comic can come here, can live like a human being and pursue their dream. And those are the guys that keep me on my. Because you're like, dude, it doesn't matter if I'm the only guy on this lineup that has done TV or whatever. You got five people going up, up that are swinging for the fences. Because when you're young, you really are like, I gotta prove myself. Yeah. So you're following even if it's four unknown people, they're doing their A. They are trying to kill as hard as humanly possible. And you're like, all right, I guess this is. I got. I gotta bring it. You know what I mean? There's that.

[Joe DeRosa]

And it's also their enthusiasm for. You know. And the thing about Austin is we have a real system at the club that actually develops talent.

[Matt McCusker]

Yes.

[Joe DeRosa]

Like, we have two Nights of open mic nights. And we have a real talent coordinator. Adam really watches everyone. He watches the open mic nights. He gives people advice. He gets them spots, he helps them. He gets them on showcase nights. He puts them on. He gives them sets, gives them feedback, and then they get to work all around town. There's. There's five other clubs on the same street, man.

[Matt McCusker]

It's crazy, dude. You can walk from your place to Sunset to the Creek to Vulcan, Black Rabbit to Vulcan. And then if you don't mind walking 20 minutes, you can be at Roscoe's East Austin. It's nuts, man.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's crazy. And then there's also Capsicum City, which is on the other side of town, which is awesome. Yeah, it's amazing here.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

And, you know, there's so many young people that have moved here now. And then the Kill Tony thing. The Kill Tony thing is so huge because it's. First of all, you have one minute. You have no room for virtue signaling, no room for Clapter. Shut the up. Just. Where's the jokes? Come. Come with the jokes. And then no one takes in anybody. No one's taking themselves seriously. Everybody's getting cracked on. Everyone's cracking on everybody. It's very fun. Yeah, It's a fun environment, and it's just emphasizing funny. What is funny? What makes people laugh.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

And there's a bunch of different styles that do it. You know, there's a bunch of different weirdos that go up every week, and most of them have no chance, but there's some gems. And that's the thing about having, like, a true meritocracy, where all that matters is if you're funny. That's. It doesn't matter what you look like. It doesn't matter what your background is. There's. I mean, Kill Tony is, like, one of the most diverse lineups you're ever gonna see. For all the people that think that Tony's a Nazi, it's kind of hilarious, because trans people, disabled people, you know, people from all walks of life, home. Literal homeless people who've gone on stage, started a career because of Kill Tony. Literally homeless while they're doing it. Sleeping in a car. Car. And the next thing you know, they have a career.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. Yeah. It's. It's an. It's a truly amazing thing. It's. It's. You know, we just did. He just did msg, and I was there and did the show, and then. And then paneled with Jimmy Carr and

[Joe DeRosa]

a tell, you know, crazy that is that Kill Tony Sells out Madison Square Garden two nights in a row.

[Matt McCusker]

It's crazy.

[Joe DeRosa]

When I first did it with him, we did it in the. The Belly Room at the store. And the only people in the audience were, like, comics. There was nobody in the audience. There was like, 10 other people, maybe.

[Matt McCusker]

Dude, I remember. Excuse me. I was down here to do South. It was when I still lived in New York. I was down here to do south by Southwest. And Tony hit me up and he goes, buddy, are you in town Monday? I go, yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

He goes, okay. He did his voice.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, buddy. He goes, come do kill Tony, right? I go, okay, okay. I hadn't seen him in years, you know? And the last I saw him, I did it in the Belly Room, maybe the main room. I don't. You know, whatever. But it was at the Comedy Store, dude. I walked into the Vulcan because it was before Mothership opened. I walked into the Vulcan. It was like Thunderdome, dude. It was two levels. People, like, you could feel the excitement. Dude, I walked in the green room. Tony goes, there he is. I go, what the fuck is going on, dude? What is going on? I go, is it like this every week? He goes, it sells out in one minute. I was like, what? I go, did these people fly in? He's like, yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

I was like, dude, it's broken. Our ticket. Our ticket service multiple times, where it's just the overwhelming demand. The people that are trying to get tickets versus the tickets that are available is so crazy, it crashes. The system.

[Matt McCusker]

That's nuts.

[Joe DeRosa]

We had to, like, revamp the system multiple times just to deal with Kill Tony sales.

[Matt McCusker]

That's fucking nuts. It's nuts.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, it's just because it's so good. It's that simple. And if you've gone, you want to go again. It's so fun.

[Matt McCusker]

That moment, it was like in. Remember in Casino when Pesci, she goes out to Vegas for the first time? And De Niro goes, and this is whatever Sharon Stone's character's name is. And then Pesci looks at Sharon Stone and he goes, holy shit, Ace. What the fuck you been doing out here? It was that. It was like, I saw that that crowd was Sharon Stone and Tony was De Niro. And I go, what the fuck you been doing out here, man?

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, the Vulcan really opened up our eyes to the fact that we needed a club. And what happened was, was no one had done any standup at all for months. And then Tony and I did the Houston improv, which was great. It was a lot of fun. We did a Weekend. It was in the middle of the COVID It was in July, and everyone was scared. And I did it. And it was a lot of fun. I hadn't done standup in months. It was so much fun. But then I started thinking, what if I get Covid and then give it to one of my fucking guests and kill them? This is back when people were really worried.

[Matt McCusker]

Sure.

[Joe DeRosa]

I was like, oh, no. Because I have, like, these people that come in, some of them are older, you know, And I had this lady on who was a scientist, and she was older. And I was like, what if I gave her Covid and killed her? Yeah, because that was back in the day. That was also. But people were really convinced that you could be asymptomatic and still spread it. Which turned out really what was going on was there was a lot of false positives for the PCR test. 80 plus percent false positives.

[Matt McCusker]

Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

And so. So I said, let me just take time off. I don't want to do that. This just feels totally irresponsible. Just because I would want to get my comedy fix. Let me just ride this out. And then we wound up moving to Texas. And by the time we moved to Texas, it was around November. And Dave and I were doing these outdoor shows.

[Matt McCusker]

I remember, at Stubbs, right?

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, we were doing shows at Stubbs, which was a lot of fun, but everybody had to be tested. People had to wait in line. You know, it was like. It was a big deal. And a few people tested positive. We had to kick them out.

[Matt McCusker]

Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

Then the Vulcan just started doing shows. Your tests. Let's just go back to where it was. And this is in November. And Ron White went up, and he hadn't gone up in, like, eight months. He hadn't done any stand up in eight months. And he went on stage and the audience went berserk. They went berserk. Like people were standing up.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

And he murdered. I mean, Ron White just laid it down for 15 minutes, I'm sure. And then he grabs me by the shoulders, offside. He goes, whatever the fuck we have to do, we're gonna keep doing this. He goes, you gotta open up that club. And I was like, all right, okay, we're gonna open up.

[Matt McCusker]

Amazing.

[Joe DeRosa]

And that was when I decided, mike, that's it. We're gonna open up a club. And then I immediately started looking at real estate. Immediately tried to find a place. Place.

[Matt McCusker]

Wow. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. That's how the whole.

[Joe DeRosa]

That was it. Ron White grabbing Me, cuz Ron White is why I moved here in the first place. So I knew Ron moved here in 2018 and you know, me and Ron were talking on the phone. He was like, I love it here. And you know, he's telling me how great Austin was and everything else was locked down. I was like, look, if I move to Austin, if no one's doing standup again ever, at least I can hang out with Ron. Like it'll be a comic that I can hang out with and, and live in a place where it's like more relaxed and it's easier to get around and sure, you don't have to wear a mask everywhere. It was like, it was at least it was more chill here.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Even if we never do stand up again. And so him doing that and just grabbing me and saying we're gonna, we gotta do this. Whatever the we have to do. That's what he said. Like he was just on fire coming off stage, just on fire and just grabbed my shirt shoulders and I was like, okay, we're doing it.

[Matt McCusker]

That's great.

[Joe DeRosa]

And that's when I did because I was always. We were talking about it like we should open up a club. Where were we? And I looked at a bunch of different places, but they kind of sucked. And they were trying to me, they were asking way too much money for these places. Like during the, the beginning stages of the pandemic when everyone was moving here from California, everyone got crazy with real estate. They got really nutty.

[Matt McCusker]

Oh, it was, it was batshit.

[Joe DeRosa]

They got really delusional. The prices went up like a hundred percent in a lot of places.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, I'm going through it now because I bought a condo here and I'm trying to sell the condo and buy a house. And it's very tricky now because the market has shifted so much and values.

[Joe DeRosa]

There's way too many condos for sale.

[Matt McCusker]

Way too many, way too many. I'm worried that I'm gonna end up buying this house, not be able to get rid of this goddamn condo.

[Joe DeRosa]

You're gonna have to keep the condo.

[Matt McCusker]

I don't have any need for it. I'm like, I don't know what I would do with it, you know. But I also don't wanna live in this condo anymore because originally that's where

[Joe DeRosa]

he takes sketchy work women. Women that think they're going to you think might rob you. Cuz I know you, you date a lot of sketchy g, take them to the condo, have a house where it's like calm and Peaceful. A little bit off the track. Get a little yard, you know, get some peace and quiet and take it

[Matt McCusker]

to her con the condo. She goes, why is there only an air mattress in here?

[Joe DeRosa]

How come you only have four pairs of under.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, it's not a bad. It's not a bad point you make. I've had a few people in my condo.

[Joe DeRosa]

You don't want them coming to your house.

[Matt McCusker]

I don't know if this was a mistake. Give this address away.

[Joe DeRosa]

Once you got people showing up at your house, like, oh, no,

[Matt McCusker]

it's. Oh, wait, you were just. Ooh. You were talking about starting the club. Oh. Oh. What's so weird is it's an odd, like, kind of full circle moment, but when I lived here in 2000, your club was the original Alamo.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah.

[Matt McCusker]

And the Alamo Drafthouse at that time was the only movie theater ever in the country that served food and alcohol during a movie. And I remember that being a place that I went to frequently because I thought it was so amazing that you could get food during a movie. And the kinds of movies they played, I loved. And then on top of it, I always saw that as the reason that I loved Austin. It was sort of just a. It was just sort of a symbol of why I loved Austin, the concept of it all. And it's so weird now that I've moved back after all these years, that that's where the mothership is. And now that's my symbol for living in Austin and being a part of this club and that club. Begetting all these other places that we get to perform in this scene and all that stuff. Stuff. It's a very weird, like, kind of full circle thing. I didn't realize until right now, as

[Joe DeRosa]

we were talking about, we need to have a birthday party for the building. The building turns 100 next year.

[Matt McCusker]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

We have to have a birthday party for the building.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, yeah. You absolutely should.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, yeah, we should do something.

[Matt McCusker]

Lot of history in that building. Lot of cool shit.

[Joe DeRosa]

You could feel it. I felt it when. When you never got to be here, when it was bare bones, but when it was bare bones, when it was just the movie theater before we did all the renovations and raised the ceiling or lowered the ceiling and raised the floor and changed it and made the tunnel and all the. The structure that we put in place when we first got in there, like, you could feel it. Feel it, like, baked into the walls. I mean, Stevie Ray Vaughan performed there.

[Matt McCusker]

What was it before the Alamo?

[Joe DeRosa]

It was a bunch of different things. At one point in time, it was like a punk rock club. So, like, Black Flag performed there. Like, who's this chili peppers in 86? Chili peppers. 86.

[Matt McCusker]

So that's why all of those punk flyers are in the green room.

[Joe DeRosa]

The green room is all flyers from people that performed at the club. They're shows.

[Matt McCusker]

I didn't know that. I thought it was just a cool decor thing.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's pretty cool. It's that, too, but it's also. Look at. He's got the sock over his coat. Rob Butthole. Right in our stage.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, There you go.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah. All those things on the wall, all those different people. Willie Nelson. All those different people performed there. That was their. Their flyer for the show that they did when they were at the club.

[Matt McCusker]

There's so many bands on that wall where I'm like, I love that band. I love that band.

[Joe DeRosa]

Butthole Surfers. Yeah, it's tons. So it was a punk rock band. It was a punk rock club. It was a rock and roll club. It was a pool hall for a while. It was a nudie movie theater. Yeah.

[Matt McCusker]

Amazing.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah. And then obviously, it became the Alamo. And then the Alamo went under, I think before the pandemic, it went under, and then it was available, you know, like a year. And I looked at it and I was like, it's like too much work. And then that was from what you.

[Matt McCusker]

74.

[Joe DeRosa]

74. Wow.

[Matt McCusker]

So that's fat, man.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yep. That's what it used to look like.

[Matt McCusker]

Fuck, man. I mean, it looks different, obviously, but it doesn't look that diff. Like, you can.

[Joe DeRosa]

It looks a lot more narrow.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

What I don't understand. Like, what. What happened? I wonder if it was two rooms back then.

[Matt McCusker]

I don't know.

[Joe DeRosa]

It looks different. It looks very different in terms of the. Like, that looks more like. Like it, right? Not the same one. Oh, different one. Yeah. Yeah. The middle one looks like it.

[Matt McCusker]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Pull the ritzes. That's what I was. But the middle one looks more like it. Go back to that again. Yeah, that looks more like the dimensions, man. We fit 250 people in the. The big room. But I think we could fit a lot more if we have seating like the Comedy Works in Denver, which I think is the best. That's what it looked like when we first got there. When we first got there, it looked like that. And we walked in and we were like, holy shit. The stage was really high, obviously, because it was like movie theater.

[Matt McCusker]

Sure.

[Joe DeRosa]

And the seating was at an angle a very Sharp angle, like a movie theater. And so we had to raise the floor up so it was flat in the center, and there's just a slight raise in the back. And then we kept those two balconies. Go back up to that page picture right there. Those two balconies that we have. Obviously, we have the green room balcony and then the VIP balcony, which is such a dope thing to have.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Because there's always. Always friends that come by that want to. Want to come by and see the show. And you. You always have 40 seats. You know, you could always get 40 people up there.

[Matt McCusker]

So there's always those balconies fit. 40 people total?

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah.

[Matt McCusker]

Holy.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah.

[Matt McCusker]

That's crazy.

[Joe DeRosa]

We always can stuff plenty of people back. Back up in there.

[Matt McCusker]

That's. Wow. I had no idea the building was as old as you just said it was.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah.

[Matt McCusker]

And I had no idea all that other was 1927. Is this still the main room, or

[Joe DeRosa]

is this little boy Kansas City? So.

[Matt McCusker]

Oh, okay. Sorry.

[Joe DeRosa]

Similar looking. But, you know, we. We tried to figure out how to do it. Do we do it just like. Like, initially we thought, well, maybe we should do it just like this. Like, have seating, like movie theater seating. And then we're like, no, we should probably, like, raise the floor up and make it flat in the front. It would make more sense, you know? And then we had to figure out, like, what to do with the stage. And then Louie gave me some really good advice. We were going to keep the ceiling the way it was. And Louie was like, how can you lower it? And I was like, I think we can lower it, like, and still get some view out of the balcony. So we had to figure out how to lower the ceiling just enough so, and it made a difference. And then he said, lower the ceiling in the little boy, too. And we did that. And then we also made the stage smaller in the little boy. This is all Louie's advice. And he was dead on. I was like, tell me what you think. I left, listened to everybody. Everybody got a say in what to do. You know, what to have. Like, Brian Simpson, it was his idea to have the lights in the green room. The light that shows you someone's got the light in the big room, someone's got the light in the little room. And then I think it was Tony's idea to put the timers one or the other. Maybe it was Tony for the lights, Brian for the timer. I forget. But everybody had a little piece of the. Like, I think it was Brian's idea to have monitors it's like everybody got a say in how it's done. That's what it looked like when you. When we first walked in. Now what does it look like now? I never go in through the front. I know. Go to. Go to what it looks like now. See if you can find an image of the mother.

[Matt McCusker]

Similar. And it's been redone, obviously, but it looks similar enough that you can see.

[Joe DeRosa]

Oh, yeah, I can see the bones.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

I mean, it's essentially. It was set up perfectly for two rooms. There's no pictures of the. The ufo. That's kind of crazy. So we have a big UFO as you walk in.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, yeah, there it is.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's the ufo. And it has a projector. So the UFO is a projector, and up on the screen, it projects all the people that are coming soon. That's been amazing. We've been open for three years now, and it's been the most fun thing that I've ever been a part of.

[Matt McCusker]

It's hilarious, dude. I've walked under that projector a thousand times, and I never realized. Or the ufo, I mean, and I never realized it was projecting shit off the back.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's a projector.

[Matt McCusker]

That's so funny.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, we just wanted to. Wanted to make it cool. And it's also. I think it's a fire extinguisher. I think the center of it is a fire. I think we had to have one. So we put it in the center of the UFO

[Matt McCusker]

that same time. I was talking about during south by Southwest, and when I did kill Tony, it was me and Adam Ray were on panel. And the next day, Eric invited us over to see the club. It wasn't done yet, you know, but he walked us in. I remember him walking me through Little Boy and being like, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do that this, we're this. And I remember he goes, you going to play here? And I go, I hope so. I hope so. But, yeah, it was. It was wild seeing it, like, you know, in the construction phase and. And. And whatever, and then seeing the final product and remembering like, oh, I remember he told me they were going to change that.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's been really fun.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, and, you know, it's. It's. You know, it's. I think few people are in a position to have created a club that can operate the way a club ideally should operate. And you're one of those people, and you made it work, which is.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, you have to do it not to make money. My Goal in the beginning was just break even. That was the goal. Let's just break even. So the idea is that everybody gets paid what they're supposed to get paid, particularly the comics. That's what everybody's here to see. The, they're not there to buy drinks in an empty room. They're there to see the comics. So the comics should get the most money. Yeah, that's. You know what I used to always think when I'd go to other clubs, I'd be like, this is crazy. But I would always tell comedians, be nice to club owners because you don't want to be one. Like, you don't, you don't want to be the guy that has to run these places and deal with these maniacs that come in, and especially some of the nuttier ones on the road, you know, like, could you imagine if you had to run the funny bone in Columbus, Ohio? Animals that show up should miss their flights and they're, they do ecstasy the night before. They can't read.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, yeah. It's 8:30. The headliner's not there yet. Like, what the.

[Joe DeRosa]

He's trying to score coke.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, it's, it's. I, I, I always, I always said that too. I was like, I was like, I would never want to be in a position where I have to deal with

[Joe DeRosa]

comics from that side of it, especially comics coming up. There's like most established comedians, once you've been doing it a long time, you have a career, you're like, you're reliable, you know? You know, I'm saying, like, if you book, you know, fill in the blank.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

You know, whoever it is, it's like, national headliner, they're gonna show up.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

You know.

[Matt McCusker]

Well, also too, like, the, the profile, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the profile that you were able to bring to the club probably helped you circumvent some of the horseshit that club owners in Idaho have to deal with with agents and all that shit, where it's like, hey, man, sorry, there's an improv there, so we can't take our guy out of the improv or what? And now you're, There's a whole other battle now that you have to do.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, there's that if you pay people more, they'll go to your place.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's what they get found out.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

And it pisses. This is off the other clubs. But look, that's not my fault. Like, I, this is, I am a comedian. I, I made a living doing this for a long Time. And I know the value of the comedian. I know the value of the comic. The comic should be getting most of the money.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

You know, I don't deserve most of the money. We can make money. We're gonna make money on 20% of the ticket sales and the liquor and all that jazz. We'll make plenty of money.

[Matt McCusker]

Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

Like, let's not be greedy. Let's just make an awesome environment. And that's what we wanted to do. So the goal was never to make money. So most people, when they start a business, their goal is to try to make money.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

And this was a conscious decision to just not lose money. Just make it cool.

[Matt McCusker]

It's. Again, yeah. You were in a very advantageous position to make it the right way.

[Joe DeRosa]

It was also like, I kind of had to do it that way because I had the resources. And it was like, look, you're supposed to do the right thing. This is the thing you should do. What would you like someone that has your kind of money to do? I would like someone to make an awesome club for comics. Like, you're a comic. You know how important it is. Make the fucking. The best creative environment, welcoming everybody, pump everybody up.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's what you should do, dude.

[Matt McCusker]

It's funny because I always say, if you're. And you did this as a comic. Right. I always say with a movie star. Right? Right. Somebody who's got real movie star bank. I'm just like, man, why the fuck don't more of these guys that have endless cash start creating film situations that they want to be a part of? I don't mean like, we're going to do the next blockbuster thing or we've got a franchise or whatever. It's like, why don't you take 10 million bucks and make the fucking art fucking movie with all of your friends that you always wanted to make? Because who cares? You will break even. You will break even. At the very least. I never, ever, ever understood why more people in that position don't do it. I don't get it. Because rock stars do it all the time. Rockstars start a little label and they start putting on other bands that they love and they do passion projects because they want to work with their friends. I've never. Maybe not never, but it's very rare that you ever see a movie star do that. And I'm like, why not do it? For years, American Psycho was the big one. The Brett Easton Ellis novel. Why haven't they made an accurate adaptation? Well, the studios don't want to Touch it because it's too violent. It's like somebody with $500 million who's a movie star are fucking go, I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna do it the way it's supposed to be done, and it's gonna work because that's what people wanna see. And fuck it, man. Like, I just. I don't get it.

[Joe DeRosa]

Do you think that the Christian Bale version was not accurate?

[Matt McCusker]

I like the Christian Bale version a lot, but it is not the book. The book is fucking dark. It's brutal. Yeah, there's shit in that book. I was reading that book and I was. I was like, brett Easton Ellis has murdered somebody. There are details in here where I was like, I don't understand how you would know this.

[Joe DeRosa]

There's one of the darkest scenes in that book is when he goes to get rid of the body. And the real estate guy sees him in the room because they're selling the apartment. And so he realizes the real estate guy's already gotten rid of the body, and they look at each other and he just leaves.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

And you're like, oh, God.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. And there was, by the way, I was just joking about Buddy Snell. I don't think he's murdered somebody. I feel like we have to say that.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's very important to clarify.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, yeah, I was just joking.

[Joe DeRosa]

Just humor.

[Matt McCusker]

But the thing the book did, and they cut a major scene out of the movie. It's the one extra scene on the Blu Ray, and I don't understand why they deleted it. But there's a scene in the movie where his friend says they're at the club at the beginning, and his friend goes, goes, I'm out of here. And the guy climbs up like, these, like, rafters or whatever and crawls into, like, a fan vent in the club, and you never see him ever again. And that's the part in the book that makes you go, is this all in this guy's head? What he just described happening is nuts. And this guy is now gone, and nobody knows where he is. And I'm. And I'm like, is it. That's such a key scene. And they cut it out of the movie. And so, whatever. They're remaking it now again.

[Joe DeRosa]

Oh, they are?

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Who's gonna be American Psycho?

[Matt McCusker]

I think maybe Adam Driver is connected to it. I think maybe good at that.

[Joe DeRosa]

He's got a lot of Psycho behind his eyes.

[Matt McCusker]

But the shards is the new Brett Aston Ellis adaptation on Fox.

[Joe DeRosa]

What is it?

[Matt McCusker]

It's his Last novel. And it's. It's a fictional autobiography where the main character is him as a teenager. And there's a serial killer loose and all these murderers are happening. They're targeting teenagers, these brutal fucking murders. And there's a cult happening that's reminiscent of the Manson cult. And then he's also coming of age and realizing he's gay and like, as he's trying to deal with. With the fact that this murder thing is happening and he thinks he knows who it is and it's a wild story, but they're. And he's. He co created it with Ryan Murphy. The TV show. The adaptation. It's really fucking good so far.

[Joe DeRosa]

Really good. So it's a period piece.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. It takes place in like 83 or 84.

[Joe DeRosa]

You know how I could tell? The Ferrari. Yeah, old Ferrari. Oh, wow.

[Matt McCusker]

But it's one of the adaptations where I was like. I feel like they're really capturing a lot of what's actually in the book, because Less Than Zero was a cool movie, but it's not the book. Rules of Attraction is a great movie. And that's. He said that was the closest thing that anybody had gotten to the books are.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's one of his books. American Psycho would be very hard to capture the darkness of it because you also capturing this guy's internal dialogue, you know, which is. Some of it.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's dark. So what would you do? Would you have a guy narrate the internal dialogue? You're missing something.

[Matt McCusker]

Well, they did that with Bale. He narrates the entire thing.

[Joe DeRosa]

I know, but you're missing something there.

[Matt McCusker]

It's very funny. How do you mean?

[Joe DeRosa]

Because I think instead of hearing it, when you're reading the internal dialogue, you understand that there's no. You don't hear the voices.

[Matt McCusker]

Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

You know what I mean? Like, this guy's got. Got some creepy going on in his head.

[Matt McCusker]

I mean.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, he's a sociopath, psychopathic murderer.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's like you get into his head in this way that I don't think you ever do in a movie. Like, you're in his head when you're reading it because you're imagining it all happening in his head. You're imagining how he's viewing, like, the real estate scene. Like he's locking eyes, this real estate guy. There's this a creepiness to it that.

[Matt McCusker]

That it's like, ooh, he plays. The best scene acting wise, in my opinion, in that movie is when they're comparing the business cards and they're like, one upping each other. Look at mine, man. It's bone white and whatever. And Christian Bale starts sweating and he gets, like, hoarse, and he's like. It's nice. It's nice because it's this fucking pissing contest where he has the best business

[Joe DeRosa]

card and he's so upset that he doesn't have the best business card. Yeah. That he wants to kill that guy.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly, exactly.

[Joe DeRosa]

I'm listening to this podcast about Luigi, the guy who murdered the healthcare executive. It's a very, very interesting podcast. You know, it details how they caught him, the whole deal. But one of the things they brought up is one of the first things they thought of after that guy got assassinated was it was probably somebody he worked with. With.

[Matt McCusker]

Really?

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah. They had to find out whether or not someone had some sort of a grudge, someone got recently fired when. You know, because when people get murdered like that, you oftentimes think it could be a co worker. I. I have a former co worker.

[Matt McCusker]

I have a question for you about Luigi. I'm glad you brought it up. I'm so sorry. I have to pee really bad.

[Joe DeRosa]

Why don't you go pee really bad?

[Matt McCusker]

I'm gonna pee really fast. I'll be fine.

[Joe DeRosa]

Question. Question about Luigi.

[Matt McCusker]

My manager does it. It's. Everybody does it. It's really annoying.

[Joe DeRosa]

Sorry, Joe. Is it more annoying than boiling your own coffee?

[Matt McCusker]

No, not. No. Nothing's more annoying than that.

[Joe DeRosa]

The turning on the stove, filling the pot. When does it end? When does it end? What were we? Luigi. Yeah.

[Matt McCusker]

This is what I want to tell you, ask you, because there were.

[Joe DeRosa]

Jamie has a theory.

[Matt McCusker]

Well, there were all the people.

[Joe DeRosa]

Okay, not publicly.

[Matt McCusker]

There were all the people. You know, Luigi sparked that whole debate about justified violence or whatever, which I thought was bullshit, but everybody that was rah rah ing Luigi going, he's a hero. And how many people is this health care guy killed? And all that bullshit. I wonder now what everybody's saying about the fact that Luigi is doing the insanity. And it's like, well, he didn't really stick to his fucking. I mean, if that was his thing and he was gonna be the big crusader for him to now go.

[Joe DeRosa]

Narcissists playing the legal system. I mean, that's the smart move. Play the insanity.

[Matt McCusker]

Well, it's the smart move. If you're not.

[Joe DeRosa]

It also might be accurate, but also,

[Matt McCusker]

is it the smart move if you're trying to. I know it's the smart move. I'm saying, if you're gonna go out there and go, I did this because it was justice and whatever, and then go, oh, wait, actually, actually I was a little crazy.

[Joe DeRosa]

But here's the point. If you did shoot a man who had nothing to do with you because you thought it was justice because he was a health care executive, I don't know how he picked that guy. I don't know the details of what that guy has done. Was he particularly bad, the guy he killed?

[Matt McCusker]

I think he was a CEO. No, it was definitely targeted. That this man is. This man is responsible for decisions made.

[Joe DeRosa]

Was he the CEO, Jamie, of United Healthcare? Is that what he was? So if you think that you should go murder somebody like that, that you should, you're probably mentally ill. If you think that, that that kind of violence is justified. The problem that a lot of young people are having right now and a lot of people that agree with, you know, what Luigi did and they celebrated it, is because everyone knows that the system is rigged and no one is doing anything to change it. And this is what drives people fucking crazy. If you get health insurance and their whole business model is to deny as many claims as possible, even if they know that your claims are justified, because they want to make money. So they're really in the making money business and they're pretending they're in the we're going to take care of you and give you insurance business.

[Matt McCusker]

Yes.

[Joe DeRosa]

So they're not really in that business. Yes, they're in the business of making the most amount of money of business. The. If they can, 10% of the people over or 20% of the people over, that's 20% more money. And that's how they look at it. And that drives everyone nuts, and rightly so. And if they don't correct that, people don't have a whole lot of options.

[Matt McCusker]

I agree.

[Joe DeRosa]

As to how to lash out and how to get back. And especially if, like, let's say it's your wife, let's say your wife gets injured or, or gets a disease or something and they can treat her and they deny the claim, or maybe she needs a surgery, some crazy surgery, and they deny the claim and it bankrupts you and she dies. You want to murder somebody and it makes sense because you're paying for this fucking insurance. All this time thinking that you're insured. If something goes wrong, it's the whole reason why you give them money. You don't give them money for freebies. It's not for no reason. It's not because you like them. You want United Healthcare to have A yacht?

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

No, you give him the money because it's supposed to be an agreement.

[Matt McCusker]

I agree with that completely. I have no beef with the concept behind his motivations for hatred of a healthcare CEO. I have no problem with that. My question is, Does it take away from the people that were rah rah ing him for him to now go, oh, I was just crazy, Sorry.

[Joe DeRosa]

I don't think it does.

[Matt McCusker]

Do you know what I mean?

[Joe DeRosa]

I don't think it does.

[Matt McCusker]

No.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's trying to not go to jail. And a lot of those people think you shouldn't go to jail.

[Matt McCusker]

That's interesting.

[Joe DeRosa]

I think you should go to jail. I don't think you should be able to be walking up to people on the fucking street and murdering them.

[Matt McCusker]

Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

But I can understand where your anger comes from.

[Matt McCusker]

Sure.

[Joe DeRosa]

I get it. I really do. And, and there's a. There's a thing about capitalism, right? There's a thing about corporations in particular that are. You're beholden to your shareholders. You have to make more money every quarter. That alone, that motivation alone motivates sociopathic behavior. The people that are going to be the most successful are the ones who are going to be the most ruthless and they're going to squeeze the most money possible without crushing the company's reputation. And that's their goal. And in the healthcare market, the problem is like, what are your options? There's no one amazing option where they always take care of everybody. And they're real. It's ethical capitalism. They're just trying to. Look, we make plenty of money giving people real insurance and really taking care of them and really paying for. And so let's make less money, but let's make everybody healthier. Nobody does that.

[Matt McCusker]

No, no.

[Joe DeRosa]

So your options if you have to get insurance are very limited. You're just giving money to psychos. So which psycho gets my money? Which psycho that doesn't give a fuck about me or my family or anybody I love if they get hurt or sick?

[Matt McCusker]

Every year, every year that I don't do a writing gig on a TV show, which is not every year, I don't do it frequently. I do it sometimes, but every year I don't do a writing gig on a TV show or I don't act enough to clear SAG insurance, I have to make a decision. Is this worth $600 a month for fucking health insurance? Is it? I don't know. I don't know that it is. Especially now with.

[Joe DeRosa]

Just imagine how angry you would be if you paid all that money and then you broke your ankle or something like that, and they denied you.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

You're like, what?

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

And this is why people cheer about this Luigi guy. There are a ton of stories of people who had treatable illnesses and they were denied coverage. They had surgeries that could have been done to save them. They were denied coverage. There's a ton of stories like that.

[Matt McCusker]

It's a dirty fucking game. It's a dirty game.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's not the game. They're pretending it is. They're pretending the game is. We're gonna help take care of you. You're gonna have a safety net so you pay a little bit of money and hopefully nothing happens. You never need us. And that's our gamble. Our gamble is if you do need us, you're gonna get more value out of it than you put into it.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

And they don't want that.

[Matt McCusker]

Health insurance has become like the. The protection plan at Best Buy. When you buy a tv, you want the two year protection plan in case any. No. I don't fucking know because no.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, some places have a good protection plan, though. They just give you a new tv. Health care is not even that. It's not even that. It's worse. It's worse than Best Buy.

[Matt McCusker]

I don't know why there may be a lot of you just. Well, some places have a good protection plan.

[Joe DeRosa]

They do. Some places, you just bring them the computer, they give you a brand new one. This thing sucks. It broke. I go, okay, hold on. Fill out this form. We'll get. You get another one.

[Matt McCusker]

Every time I've tried to utilize it, I bring it in. They go, oh, well, actually.

[Joe DeRosa]

Oh, really?

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, this doesn't. Yeah, the screens crack. That's not really part of it.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, you probably broke it. You probably did something stupid. What did you do? It's probably your fault.

[Matt McCusker]

I probably threw it across the room in a fit of rage because I had to boil water in the morning. Morning. But, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's. It's a dire. You know, when the Nemus Mark. When the Neiman Marcus gang thing was happening, where these kids were running into Neiman Marcus and stealing shit. Which, again, I don't think is an okay thing to do. But, you know, like, my mom, I remember was being like, can you believe these kids are. I go, mom, they just told an entire generation of kids they'll never own land. Right? They're fucking hopeless.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, they're hopeless.

[Matt McCusker]

Like, what do you. What? Where does your head even go? Where's your. I have a in in my act. I have a line. It's, it's, it's not even a joke. I just go, where the Gen Z's? And they clap and I go, you'll never own land. And it gets a huge laugh because it's so true.

[Joe DeRosa]

Isn't that crazy?

[Matt McCusker]

And it's like, it's fucked up.

[Joe DeRosa]

And then they hear that private equity companies are buying up houses so they could lease them out and so they'll own all the houses. Like, what?

[Matt McCusker]

And the parking lots. Yeah, they're buying up all the parking lots. You can't park anywhere for free or for cheap. You know, it's fucking crazy, man. We are living in a rent to live culture anymore.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, it's really just about, it's again what we were talking about, about maximizing the amount of money you could squeeze out of people, and that's their business. And it doesn't have to be like that, but it does have to be like that. If you're public. Public, it's almost like we're better off with a bunch of private corporations. And if you're private, you could do whatever you want. Like there's private court. Like, look, you could decide, I'm gonna do, you know, I'm gonna give X amount of my profits to this. I'm gonna give the Y to that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna do whatever I want because it's my money. But as soon as you have shareholders, as soon as you, you take that IPO money, ooh, baby. That's a big windfall though. You got all this money, all this stock, all this, this capital has been invested in your business. Your business is gonna grow and the business does grow. So do your fucking problems.

[Matt McCusker]

Yes, they've ruined. Shareholders have ruined. And I'm not saying shareholders inherently are evil, but the board of directors and shareholders and all that shit, they have ruined everything. They've ruined everything. It's like everybody goes, why did the last three Star wars movies suck? Kathleen Kennedy came out and said, we were met with demands by the shareholders to rush the fucking sequels out. And we couldn't make the movies we wanted to make. So that's, that's how.

[Joe DeRosa]

Imagine if they did that to Jim Cameron. You can't do that. Rush that guy. Imagine you rushed Avatar. You, you, that movie takes that forever to make. That's why it's awesome. There's, there's certain things that you can't do just for money. And healthcare should be one of them. It should be one the of.

[Matt McCusker]

Well, you know what, and I don't say this to ball wash you in any way, but you just said it 10 minutes ago about the club. And for all the criticisms that people can level at you, whatever the fuck they want to say, whatever, it's like, hey man, here's a guy I know that has a lot of money that started something that helps other people in the industry he works in and said, I'm not worried about making money, I'm worried about breaking even. And I want the people that I'm working at my club to benefit. You actually did it. You actually did the thing that we're complaining that other people don't do. You actually did the thing where you said, I am not going to try to turn massive profits off of this club. What I'm gonna try to do is create an environment where people can make what they deserve to make. That's fucking pretty awesome and pretty crazy.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, the thing is anybody can do that. That's successful already.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

You could all choose to run a business that way. And a lot of people do. I'm not unique in that way. There's a lot of really ethical, like moral, happy people.

[Matt McCusker]

Sure.

[Joe DeRosa]

And you make a happier environment too. That's the other thing. Like the environment. The club is very happy. Everybody gets paid really well. Everybody's making money. The waitresses, waiters are all making money. Everybody's happy. Yeah, that's beautiful. You go to a place where people are happy to be there. That's, that's what you want. You don't want to go to a place where you're making maximum profits and everybody is in hell. And that's a lot of people that work in corporations. Right. You're, you're, you're working way more hours than you should. You never see your kids. You're constantly stressed out. Your cortisol's through the roof. You're about to have a heart attack. But you bought a house in the Hamptons.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Look at that. I got a 15 million dollar house overlooking the bay. How about that? You win. I got the new Ferrari. You want to see it?

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

And meanwhile, you're dying.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

But that's, that's the environment of just chasing money. I think you can make plenty of money. I mean, obviously I'm in an unusual situation, but I think most business owners that do well, once you're doing well, what is enough? Like it's. Make it, just make it better for everybody. What's enough? What's enough money? What's enough? You Know, if you're running a corporation, is it really good to cut back on the ingredients and fuck people over? Like, I've seen this thing about powdered sugar. Some guy went to a grocery store and he took all these bags of two pound bags of powdered sugar and he weighed them. They're like 1.3 pounds, 1.2 pounds, 1.27. They're just. You. You telling me that's not on purpose? Your machines are so off that it doesn't know what £2 are? Yeah, but this is this mentality of just squeeze the most. Yeah, squeeze the most.

[Matt McCusker]

Most.

[Joe DeRosa]

I don't think you have to do that. I think if your business is successful, just it should be like, you're good, you're good. Let's like, keep it. Keep the ball rolling, keep good. Don't try to just keep making the most money possible every quarter. And that's what they do in corporations because they have to. If you don't, you're a bad CEO. You'll get kicked out.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Like, hey, good news, guys. We made the same amount of money this month as we did last month. Like, what? This guy sucks.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Fucking sucks. Where's my return? Yeah, you know, fucking. We're gonna vote him out.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

And then you get a board meeting together and people complain and. Yeah, you have to do that. That's their job.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. Ideally what should happen is you say, hey, guys, we made more money this month than we did last month. But the reason we made more money is because we made a better product that brought in even more customers and it was beneficial to everybody.

[Joe DeRosa]

Right.

[Matt McCusker]

And it's not that.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's not. We squeezed the same amount of customers out of more money.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, yeah. It's the fucking potato chip thing.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, the other thing that, you know, this avocado oil scandal that's going on right now, so all these people that are buying things made with avocado oil, that they think, oh, this is going to be super healthy. Turns out a lot of these corporations are fucking you over and they're using seed oils and fucking safflower oil and rapeseed oil, all these different oils, and they're pretending that it's coconut or it's avocado oil.

[Matt McCusker]

I watched a thing about food where they talked about. By the way, what I meant by the potato chip thing was when you. We were just talking about this in the lobby before we started recording. When you buy a bag of potato chips now and it's half full and it's all air and of Course the excuse is. Well, no, that's so. It protects your chips. Get the out of here.

[Joe DeRosa]

Off my chips. Yeah, don't crush the chips, you idiot.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, maybe pack the chips and ship them properly. No, no, we can't do that.

[Joe DeRosa]

Have you ever had those Vandy chips?

[Matt McCusker]

No, what's Van?

[Joe DeRosa]

Oh, they're chips made with beef tallow.

[Matt McCusker]

Okay.

[Joe DeRosa]

They're just cooked in beef tallow. It's just beef tallow and salt and potato chips. They're the best potato chips you've ever eaten in your life.

[Matt McCusker]

Where do you get them?

[Joe DeRosa]

You can buy them online. I buy them online.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

A lot of these are so legit, dude. If I want potato chips, oh, they're so good. And you don't overeat them. It's crazy. Like when it's real food, you eat enough.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

You know, especially they're like soaked in beef tallow. They're so rich and fat. Yeah, it's actually probably good for you.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's the thing. Most of these quality food products that we want to buy and, and enjoy now you have to buy them online. You can't get them in fucking stores.

[Joe DeRosa]

You can get them in some stores, but the problem is they get bought out, you know, so say a company comes along and you're making something that has like really healthy ingredients and people really get into it. And then Pepsi buys you or something.

[Matt McCusker]

Exactly.

[Joe DeRosa]

Some. Some fucking Kellogg's buys you and they. They turn it into something that's just close enough. They change the ingredients, make it cheaper.

[Matt McCusker]

Did.

[Joe DeRosa]

Did that happen with. Is it Rao's. Rao's pasta sauce? Rao's.

[Matt McCusker]

Rao's, yeah. Yeah. Rao's got bought by, I think, like, whoever makes ragu or whatever. Nabisco or some rails made a great talk.

[Joe DeRosa]

They still. Is it still legit or is it they with the ingredients now?

[Matt McCusker]

I don't. I never thought there was any jarred sauce that was awesome.

[Joe DeRosa]

Like, you know, have Steve Sharipa's when he had his. No, you know Steve Srippa from the Sopranos. Do you know Steve? Did you ever work for him? I worked for him when he was the booker at the Riviera in Vegas. I remember that before he got on the Sopranos, before he ever did any actor acting.

[Matt McCusker]

That's hilarious.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, I was friends with him a long time ago. He's the best. I love that guy. He is the best. So he had an amazing sauce. It was. I forget the name of it, but it was all organic and it was, you know, like really super top shelf ingredients. It was delicious.

[Matt McCusker]

Okay.

[Joe DeRosa]

Such a good sauce. But it was too much of a pain in the ass for him to keep the business rolling, and he got rid of it. I'm like, God damn, dude, that's. That sucks. So I think he had a problem keeping up with demand too, because it was like he came on the podcast and talked about it, and then he eventually just bailed on the business.

[Matt McCusker]

Look, man, it's one of the reasons I left my. My sandwich shop was because I felt like operating in New York was too hard of a thing. And we had to keep the four years, five years, whatever that I did it. We had to keep kind of upping prices and whatever. And it was not out of greed. It was out of. There is no way that we stand a chance to turn a profit unless you keep up with what the demand and the economy of New York City is. And I just got to a point where I was like, you know, man, it's just not what I thought it could be.

[Joe DeRosa]

You wanted to be fun. You wanted just to be fun.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. And that was it. And it was. I wish them well, but they're still going. But it was just for me, I was like, I just can't. Like, this isn't. You know, so that what happens is with a lot of these companies that get bought up, it's this Steve Sharipa thing where it's like, hey, man, I'd love to keep doing this at the quality I'm doing it, and at the, you know, the tick at which we're moving at or whatever. And then somebody comes along like Pepsi, and goes, we'll buy you out for 50 million. And you probably go, you know what? My ship just came in. Take the fucking. I don't know, you know, I can't, you know, So I don't blame people for selling to a big corporation. It's kind of the position you're left in, you know, this mom and pop thing is going away, you know.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, Covid put a big dent in that. Oh, dent in it.

[Matt McCusker]

Destroyed it.

[Joe DeRosa]

Destroyed it. In terms of, like, small restaurants. I know so many of them that went under in LA. I think at one point in time, LA lost 70% of its restaurants.

[Matt McCusker]

It's that. It's the meat monopoly thing is brutal what happened with prices of meats. Because they saw. Oh, actually we can say that there's a demand and low product availability and all this and just charge everybody this

[Joe DeRosa]

much, but there also is a demand and there also is low product. There's also the reality of the marketplace.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, well, what I think it is is there's the reality of the problem and then, and some people are affected by that very genuinely, but then there's a lot of people that go, this is a chance for us to capitalize and squeeze, squeeze. And that sucks.

[Joe DeRosa]

That sucks. Yep. That's the thing. And you know, once you escape the world of need and you're in a world of decisions based on what you enjoy doing, then you could choose to do a business where you do it however you want to do it and don't worry about it.

[Matt McCusker]

Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

You know, because you're not doing it for money, you're doing it because it's cool thing.

[Matt McCusker]

Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

And ideally that's what we would all like to do. Yeah, ideally. It's not obviously difficult to achieve, but if you can get there, that's the way to do it. It's just that everybody has this thing about chasing the fucking whatever number it is, whether it's number in your bank account or the address that you're living in or the car that you're driving, everyone's always chasing the new thing. There's a new thing to justify why you, you're pumping all of your energy into a business, you know.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, it's, it's, it's the unfortunate other side of, of capitalism. Capitalism.

[Joe DeRosa]

This is why it's capitalism. Great. It's way better than everything else.

[Matt McCusker]

Well, that I agree with. But we're just talking about.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, it's got flaws and the flaws are human nature. That's the flaws.

[Matt McCusker]

Is there a way, do you think, is there a way to have the free market with capitalism but actually have some sort of regulation so these problems that we're talking about can occur or is it just you have to take the good with the bad and that's all there is to it?

[Joe DeRosa]

I mean there should be definitely be regulations, without a doubt, but I think too much regulations, then you stifle business. And that's what California has if over over regulated because the government is just too huge of a business there. I think at one point in time, California, during the pandemic, they lost just a bunch of people. Like a bunch of people moved out, but they doubled the size of government. They just keep adding more government and more like that's where they create jobs. They create jobs through government and just keep adding programs and adding government and then you just keep siphoning off tax money and it's a slush fund and, and there's a whole economy based on It. And those people are the people that are in charge of running the city. And they don't want to let it go.

[Matt McCusker]

Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

Because that's how everybody's getting paid and nothing's getting done. And the fucking homeless crisis never gets any better. And the streets never get clean, Schools never get fucking funded correctly, but yet they keep growing their fucking business. The business of being a fucking person in government.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. One of the things I learned when I worked for the cause when I lived here in 2000, I worked for the Senate during the legislative session. It was the 76th legislative session. I think I was a media reporter for the Senate media department. Department. But one of the things I learned was how low a senator's salary is versus what they actually make in a year because of donations and whatever the fuck else. And I was like, of course these people don't want to ever step down from the seat. This is the fucking. This is a. This is a joyride right now.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah.

[Matt McCusker]

And once you're in that position, now you got to put problem. Because now it's like, well, who's actually in there to do something versus who's in there to keep the job? And if you want to keep the job, keep the constituents happy, well, how do you do that? Well, then you start compromising things and

[Joe DeRosa]

cater and you learn how to be a good artist.

[Matt McCusker]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

You learn how to say the things they want you to say. That's why people support ridiculous positions, because they lick their finger and find out which way the wind's blowing. And that's the way my constituents want. So that's how I feel. Deal?

[Matt McCusker]

Yep.

[Joe DeRosa]

You know, I think God's non binary. Like, whatever. They just start talking.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

They start saying things. You're like, what are. Why are you saying this? This makes no sense. They're saying it because they think it's going to help them and get them to win. Kooky stuff, man.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, man.

[Joe DeRosa]

And nobody wants the job. That's the other thing. When nobody. No really successful person who would really be good at it wants the job. It's too much work. It's. It's a hassle. You're also dealing with insane corruption. Once you get inside there, try untangling all the webs that have been spun for decades where they've been moving money to this and moving money to that, and you got to pay a little of this and you got to pay a little of that.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah. Did you ever see Charlie Wilson's War? Tom Hanks movie?

[Joe DeRosa]

No.

[Matt McCusker]

It's great. You'd Love it. Mike Nichols directed it. Char. Tom Hanks and Philip Seymour Hoffman. It's my favorite Philip Seymour Hoffman, really performance ever. It's a awesome movie. Movie, but it's about how when we were sending arms and funding the Afghanis, when Russia was attacking Afghanistan, and he's in there to do a good thing. He's like, these people are getting taken over. The Russians are coming in, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he does all this good thing. He gets all this funding to them. He helps them, the Afghanis start shooting the Russian copters out of the fucking air and all this. And he's like, this is great. And then all of a sudden, the powers that be are like, we're cutting the funding. And he's like, what are you talking about? We just helped these people liberate themselves. We can't cut the funding now. We have to rebuild. And they're like, yeah, we're not rebuilding. We're not spending any more money in this. And the end of the movie is Philip Sewerhoffen telling Tom Hanks that he doesn't say the name, but he says the fucking loonies are in the henhouse. He's talking about Ben Locke and this now taking over Afghanistan. And this is going to go real fucking sideways on us. And it's just such a great encapsulation of. That's how it works. That's how it works. You do a good thing, and then all of a sudden, it creates an even bigger fucking problem than they've ever anticipated because of funding. It's a. It's.

[Joe DeRosa]

You would also, why were they doing it in the first place? Why the fuck are they funding the Mujahideen? And that's how bin Laden turned against us. Us.

[Matt McCusker]

Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

That's what it was all about. He realized how dirty our fucking politics are and what we're doing when doing regime change in other countries and proxy wars and all the insane shit that we've been involved with forever, it's fucked

[Matt McCusker]

up the way it's portrayed. The way it's portrayed in the movie is the Russians are attacking these people. It's going to be this genocide. It's blah, blah, blah, blah. That's how it's framed in the movie, in real life. You know, I know there's always multiple sides, both sides.

[Joe DeRosa]

I mean, there's probably a lot to that, too.

[Matt McCusker]

But it's just one of those things where I brought it up because you said, who would ever want this job? And I watched that movie and thought that I was like, who would Want the fucking job of this guy, that he thinks he's doing the right thing, and then it just blows up in their face.

[Joe DeRosa]

You just hope that good people come along and want the job. That's what you hope. But for the most part, they're swimming in a sea of cycles. Goes right, yeah.

[Matt McCusker]

Well, the question is, if a good person does come along, can they stay. Can they stay pure? Or is the system just built in a way where it's like, now there's no way to do this? You know, I was equated to the Hollywood thing. It's like. It's like, in my opinion, there's no way to become. Or it's a very hard thing to become a massive movie star and maintain your morality and your ethics and whatever you're. You're playing in a system that is so foul and so dirty and whatever. That's why we're like. It's so rare to meet a Woody Harrelson or somebody like that who's a genuine person. And nine out of ten of those guys, they don't fucking live there. They're out. They go somewhere else and they dip in. They do it. They get the fuck out again. So I always wonder, like, is there. We always say, like, if only a decent man would come along and lead us or. Or take this seat in this office or what? Is it possible to even remain pure at that point? I don't know. Or is it just, hey, this is how it works. This is all there is to it. And you either play this game or you will be phased out, and that's it, you know?

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, the Hollywood game is interesting because you have to have the same political opinions of them.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

If you don't. Any variation whatsoever. If you're like, hey, maybe we shouldn't take this weird experimental vaccine scene. You're cast out of the kingdom. Like, you have to be full compliance, full compliance to whatever ideology that they have, because they're completely in control. They get to choose whether or not you work. The beautiful thing about comedy and music is another version of that, but less so, I think, is that you just make what you make, and if people like it, they come see. See you. Real simple. Real simple. You get a chance. Everybody gets a chance. Everybody gets a chance to do Opal Mic nights. Everybody gets a chance. If someone says, hey, Joe, you're really funny. You want to open for me on the road also? Oh, my God, I'm on the road.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

Everybody gets a chance.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

And the thing about the movie business is it's not that way. Like, you could be a really talented actor and you never get cast in something you. Maybe they don't align with the way you think. Maybe you didn't kiss their ass enough when you went in for the audition. Maybe you don't have a good agent, whatever it is.

[Matt McCusker]

Right.

[Joe DeRosa]

You might not ever work.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah, there's a great. What is it called? It's the documentary. I think it's just called Frank. It's the documentary about Frank Stallone, Sylvester Stallone's brother. And Frank Stallone is an immensely talented guy. And he sort of got reduced to. He does stuff, he works, and he seems like a happy, happy guy, but there was a big part of Frank Stallone where he kind of got reduced to the punchline of, like, Sly's brother. Yeah, exactly.

[Joe DeRosa]

Well, you know, that was. Charlie Murphy always used to say that about Eddie.

[Matt McCusker]

They talk in the documentary about Frank Stallone, they go. Everybody's like, how did this guy not become bigger? He's so talented. He was a musician, he's a great actor. He's this, he's that. And they say in the middle, they go, dude, it doesn't just happen. You have to have a team of people operating around you that make. Make it fucking happen. It's not just dumb luck. It's not just, oh, he's good. If you don't have the people strategically, let's put it, that buying you through the system, right? It doesn't fucking happen. It just doesn't happen. It's like, look at when people get nominated, the process of getting nominated for an Emmy, it's like you get the consideration vote. And then I would see it when I was living in la and then people would do these PR campaigns just based on the consideration.

[Joe DeRosa]

Oh, yeah, those billboards for your consideration. Yeah, you'd see them everywhere.

[Matt McCusker]

Then you get nominated. And then that's a whole other thing. That's why I thought it was such bullshit when. And I'm a big fan, I'm not knocking the guy, but, like, when the whole thing happened with, like, Brendan. The year that Brendan Fraser won for the Whale was the same year the kid that played Short Round won one for everything, everywhere, all at once. Do you remember that year at the Oscars? And they both. It was like, it's the year of the comebacks at the Oscars. And they're up there going, I thought I was done and here I am. It's like, you fucking had a campaign like this costs millions of dollars to get you here. This is not some Underdog story. This was orchestrated. That's how it works. It's crazy. Crazy. It's crazy. Nobody's. Ah, yeah. I was driving a cab. Then all of a sudden, I got nominated. I won. That's not how it fucking works. That's batshit.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, well, it's a batshit business.

[Matt McCusker]

It's the worst and best business of all time. It's the best that it gets us to get to do what we want to do.

[Joe DeRosa]

Sorry, but it doesn't. Stand up is better now. It's like stand up and podcasts is such an easier pathway than that. That was the old pathway. You had to be a part of that.

[Matt McCusker]

I was talking to Tony about it after msg. We were at the after party, and he, you know, Tony, I love. This is what. One of the things I love about him. He gets, you have a few drinks, and it's a real love fest. But he's like, buddy, we're doing it, man. We're doing it. They told us no, and we're fucking doing it. And I go, tony, here's what's wild. I go, go. The mainstream of entertainment could become the. For lack of a better term, wokist. Whatever. That whole thing could come back of PC culture and whatever, and they could tell any one of us or all of us, you guys are out. There's no way you're gonna get anything on streamers or anything anymore. And we'd all still be fine because we all said we found another lane, so fuck it. It doesn't matter.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's a bigger lane to too.

[Matt McCusker]

Way bigger.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's way bigger.

[Matt McCusker]

Way bigger.

[Joe DeRosa]

Yeah, because it's authentic.

[Matt McCusker]

Yeah.

[Joe DeRosa]

It's real. And it's not curated. Yeah, it's real. It's simple, people. That's what people want.

[Matt McCusker]

If Hollywood could send a missile to destroy YouTube, they would.

[Joe DeRosa]

Meanwhile, it's come up with some of the fucking greatest talents. Like that guy who made Obsession came straight out of YouTube. Yeah, dude, I got to wrap this up.

[Matt McCusker]

Oh, okay.

[Joe DeRosa]

You're special.

[Matt McCusker]

Speaking of which. Yeah?

[Joe DeRosa]

Rosa, I never promised you a rose Garden. Available right now on Netflix.

[Matt McCusker]

On Netflix.

[Joe DeRosa]

Where'd you film it?

[Matt McCusker]

We shot this in Phoenixville, Pennsylvania. It was on my YouTube. Netflix scooped it up. It's still on my YouTube, but please go watch it on Netflix, and I hope you all enjoy it. And then my podcast, Violent Horrendous, is now out YMH Network, and Otroa Comedy on YouTube is where you can find it. So please listen, and I hope you watch the special and enjoy it.

[Joe DeRosa]

Thank you for having me, dude. My pleasure, brother.

[Matt McCusker]

I love you. Love you.

[Joe DeRosa]

Bye.

[Matt McCusker]

Thank you.

[Joe DeRosa]

Bye, everybody.