JRE MMA Show #169 - Protect Ya Neck

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Joe Rogan Experience – Episode: JRE MMA Show #169 - Protect Ya Neck

Release Date: August 14, 2025
Host: Joe Rogan
Guests: Matt Serra, Dean Thomas
Description: The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan, featuring in-depth conversations on a wide range of topics.

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1. Marijuana Legalization and Its Impact

Discussion Highlights: Joe Rogan, Matt Serra, and Dean Thomas delve into the topic of marijuana legalization, expressing frustration over its prolonged illegality despite growing support.

Notable Quotes:

• Matt Serra [00:35]: "It should be legalized. It's so stupid. I can't believe we're still dealing with this."
• Joe Rogan [00:43]: "It kind of feels like it is legal right now."

Key Points:

• Replacement of Pharmaceuticals: Matt Serra suggests that marijuana could replace numerous pharmaceutical drugs, highlighting the benefits of natural remedies without taxing the liver.
• Alcohol Industry's Resistance: The trio discusses how the alcohol industry lobbies against marijuana legalization to protect its own interests.
• Cartel Involvement: Matt Serra references John Norris's book, Hidden War, explaining that illegal cultivation of marijuana by cartels leads to the spread of toxic pesticides, making illegally grown weed unsafe for consumption.

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2. Entrepreneurship and Pizza Promotion

Discussion Highlights: The conversation shifts to promoting their pizza business, "Protect Ya Neck," with an engaging segment on pizza-making techniques and ingredients.

Notable Quotes:

• Matt Serra [08:32]: "That is my recipe for my tomato sauce."
• Joe Rogan [09:23]: "I eat that. Grated pecorino ready."

Key Points:

• Ingredient Quality: Emphasis on using high-quality, natural ingredients such as Caputo flour from Italy, fresh mozzarella, and prosciutto di Parma for their pizza.
• Health-Conscious Choices: They advocate for avoiding additives like sugar and potassium bromate, which are banned in several countries due to health risks.
• Local Expansion: Joe Rogan mentions opening a new spot in Massapequa Park, underscoring the organic growth of their business.

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3. Social Media Censorship and Free Speech

Discussion Highlights: The hosts examine the increasing restrictions on free speech, particularly focusing on recent arrests in the UK for social media posts.

Notable Quotes:

• Matt Serra [19:10]: "One person got 20 months in jail for encouraging violence on Facebook."
• Dean Thomas [19:19]: "They're putting thousands of people in jail for social media posts."

Key Points:

• Freedom of Expression: Concerns are raised about the lack of free speech protections and the severe consequences of expressing dissenting opinions online.
• Comparison with Other Nations: They compare the UK's stringent laws to America's more permissive stance, albeit acknowledging that the U.S. isn't perfect.
• Role of Algorithms: The discussion touches on how social media algorithms exacerbate tribalism by continually exposing users to divisive content.

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4. UFC and MMA Analysis

Discussion Highlights: A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to analyzing recent UFC fights, fighters' performances, and the dynamics of the MMA industry.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Rogan [58:11]: "A lot of money. Holy. They're paying these guys a hundred million dollars to box."
• Matt Serra [137:38]: "But Canelo is dangerous. He broke Billy Joe Saunders's whole face."

Key Points:

• Fight Breakdowns: Detailed analysis of fights involving Khamzat Chimaev, Merab Dvalishvili, Ilya Bekshenov, and others. The hosts discuss fighters' techniques, strengths, and potential future matchups.
• Business Model of UFC: Exploration of the shift from pay-per-view to streaming models with Paramount Plus, discussing the financial implications for fighters and promoters.
• Training and Conditioning: Emphasis on the importance of science-based training camps, recovery protocols, and the mental fortitude required to compete at high levels in MMA.
• Comparisons with Boxing: Contrasting the MMA industry's more equitable pay distribution with boxing's hierarchical pay structure, where top fighters earn disproportionately more.

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5. Health, Injuries, and Training Regimens

Discussion Highlights: Joe Rogan shares personal experiences with ulcerative colitis and training-related injuries, while Matt Serra and Dean Thomas offer insights into maintaining athletic health.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Rogan [01:53]: "This is the only green I eat. Wait for it."
• Joe Rogan [56:36]: "I feel bad for the people."

Key Points:

• Natural Remedies vs. Pharmaceuticals: Joe Rogan discusses managing his condition with natural methods to avoid pharmaceutical side effects.
• Injury Management: Conversations about back and knee issues, surgeries, and the importance of targeted exercises like single-leg lunges and reverse hypers to maintain physical health.
• Training Techniques: Emphasis on balanced training routines, incorporating strength, flexibility, and cardiovascular exercises to prevent injuries and enhance performance.

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6. Social and Cultural Commentary

Discussion Highlights: The hosts touch upon various social and cultural issues, including the impact of technology on relationships, political polarization, and changing societal norms.

Notable Quotes:

• Matt Serra [26:39]: "We have to think you're like a cool counselor or something like that."
• Dean Thomas [28:33]: "Yeah, it's all about letting go."

Key Points:

• Political Fatigue: Recognition of the public's growing exhaustion with constant political discourse and the effects of tribalism on societal cohesion.
• Technology's Role: Discussion on how social media algorithms deepen divisions by continuously presenting users with content that provokes anger or reinforces existing beliefs.
• Changing Gender Norms: Brief conversation about the portrayal of gender roles in media, such as female characters in traditionally male-dominated franchises like Superman and X-Men.

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7. Closing Remarks and Promotions

Discussion Highlights: The episode concludes with promotions for their respective ventures, including Joe Rogan's new podcast and their pizza business.

Notable Quotes:

• Matt Serra [181:44]: "You and Ray Largo need a reality show. It would be a great show."
• Dean Thomas [182:14]: "Ground Control will be opening up soon."

Key Points:

• Future Plans: Matt Serra and Dean Thomas announce the opening of new locations for their pizza business, Ground Control, in Sykesville.
• Podcast Promotions: Joe Rogan promotes his new podcast, "Fight Court," inviting listeners to join and engage with the content.
• Community Engagement: Encouragement for listeners to support their ventures and stay connected through social media platforms.

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, Joe Rogan engages in a multifaceted discussion with UFC legend Matt Serra and Dean Thomas, covering topics ranging from marijuana legalization and social media censorship to in-depth analyses of recent MMA fights and the business dynamics of the UFC. Additionally, they share personal anecdotes about health and training, offer social and cultural commentary, and promote their entrepreneurial ventures. The conversation is enriched with notable quotes and timestamps, providing a comprehensive overview for listeners who haven't tuned in.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections as per the provided instructions.

Transcript

[Joe Rogan]

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day.

[Matt Serra]

Good. We're up. We're up.

[Joe Rogan]

What?

[Matt Serra]

Hi, guys.

[Joe Rogan]

We're back.

[Matt Serra]

It's just like getting pulled over by the cops. The window rolls down, cops.

[Dean Thomas]

What the are you doing.

[Joe Rogan]

Joe?

[Matt Serra]

I took.

[Joe Rogan]

I took one hit of that. That was strong as hell. I feel high already.

[Dean Thomas]

That' good for you, Dean. It's good for you. Opens your mind.

[Matt Serra]

It's the right stuff. Yeah. There's some talk about Trump legalizing marijuana now.

[Dean Thomas]

That would be amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

It kind of feels like it is legal right now.

[Matt Serra]

Well, it should be. It's so stupid. It's so. I can't believe we're still dealing with this. I mean, I would have thought by the time I just turned 58, I would have thought by the time I'm 58, we would have figured this out. Right?

[Joe Rogan]

Can I tell you, when I. With my ulcerative colitis, it always. We always start with my ass for some reason. But with my ulcerative colitis, after my colonoscopy one time, the doctor's like, well, there's this pill. You could take it. It could affect your liver, but not for many years. Like, not for now. This was when I was like 39. I'm 51 now. I'd be. I'd be going to Colombia for stem cells for my fucking liver at this point. So what I do is the natural stuff. And it does help me. It just. It just helps. And I don't have to. It's not fucking with my liver.

[Matt Serra]

It would. It would take the place of so many different pharmaceutical drugs. And that's a big part of the problem. The other part of the problem is the alcohol industry.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah, that would suffer for sure, right?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And they've done studies. They know, they lobby, they. They work on it hard. They do not want marijuana becoming legalized in the. In the whole nation.

[Joe Rogan]

Alcohol is way worse.

[Matt Serra]

Way worse.

[Joe Rogan]

An age old conversation, but.

[Matt Serra]

Well, the real big problem is who's selling if. If it's illegal. The cartel.

[Dean Thomas]

That's right.

[Matt Serra]

You know, I've talked about this before. If you've heard it before, I'm sorry, but there's a guy named John Norris who's been on the podcast before, who was a game warden. He wrote a book called Hidden War. He was a game warden in California. You know, just a guy who checks fishing licenses and shit. Like, he loves the woods, loves being outdoors.

[Dean Thomas]

He came on, came upon a fucking.

[Matt Serra]

Cartel grow up in the middle of the national forest. And then they realize, oh no, this is what they do. They go deep into the woods in public land and they set up a grow up. And they got AKs and they got, you know, Virgin Mary photos, what they pray to at night. It's crazy. Like full on campsites filled with cartel dudes. They, they started turning into a tactical team. So this guy had to get Belgian Malinois and bulletproof vests. And they're getting shootouts with the cartels in the middle of the woods.

[Dean Thomas]

Thought he was signing up to be a park ranger. And he's out there like, no, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Hear people's fish stories. Like, how'd you get this one? You know? No, he's getting shootouts because.

[Dean Thomas]

With the cartels.

[Matt Serra]

So when California made their laws where you could have legalized recreational marijuana, what they also did was if you grow it illegally, it's only a misdemeanor. So the cartel could just grow. It's a misdemeanor. And if they catch people that are illegals up there, they don't do shit. So it's the perfect spawning ground for cartel grow ups. And what he was saying at the time he was here, which was a couple of years back, but he was saying that it was as much as 80% of the marijuana. I think that that was the number in the country in places where it's illegal is coming from these dudes. And they're using all these crazy pesticides and herbs that are totally illegal, fucking super toxic shit. Shit that's outlawed on farms in America. But they, but it's effective and so they're using it. So you're getting this weed that's infected with these pesticides and herb is. There's no rules, man. It's. It's illegal weed. If they had it legal, you could have inspectors who could check the fact. The fire, the farms and the factories. It'd be just like alcohol. If alcohol was illegal, we'd all be. We'd be drinking moonshine. No one would know. You know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

A nice glass of wine, you're drinking straight up alcohol. Nasty. Because that's all that's available and that's what people are doing right now. It's dumb. It empowers the people that are criminals.

[Dean Thomas]

Well, you said it before, it's the money. They're gonna affect the big pharma. And we all have seen, you know, from COVID what the hell kind of power big pharma has.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, they're worried about it. But I think the alcohol people are worried more.

[Dean Thomas]

The alcohol people got us twice. They were fighting, remember? They fought MMA hard too, buddy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Crazy that Bud Light became a sponsor, right? Years later.

[Joe Rogan]

How long did the prohibition last for prohibition on alcohol?

[Matt Serra]

That's a good point. I think it was 10 years. Was it 10 years, Jamie?

[Joe Rogan]

Must have been a rough 10 years.

[Matt Serra]

Brought to be crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, right.

[Matt Serra]

But that's where. That's where the organized crime got all their money. Yeah, that's where Nash. 13 years. For 13 years, alcohol was illegal in this country. You know crazy. That is a grown man telling you you can't have a drink.

[Dean Thomas]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

Who?

[Joe Rogan]

Same thing with a smoke. What's the problem with that?

[Matt Serra]

Exactly the same thing.

[Joe Rogan]

It's. It's weird.

[Matt Serra]

Exactly the same thing. We're just delusional about it. And we put it under the label drug, which is alcohol. Alcohol is a drug, dummy. It's all drug.

[Joe Rogan]

Everything's a drug.

[Matt Serra]

There's a lot of drugs.

[Joe Rogan]

Caffeine is a drug.

[Matt Serra]

Exactly. We're drinking espresso. You just stop it. It's just knowing how to use each drug. And the only way you know how to use it is. Is if people are honest and if they do studies, you have actual scientists who aren't being paid off to come up with some sort of negative or result. You know, that's what it's supposed to be. Yeah. For all of us. It's all just co opted by money. Enforce it. Never heard that.

[Dean Thomas]

Maryland didn't. Well, that's good.

[Matt Serra]

By the way. How crazy is that?

[Dean Thomas]

Right?

[Matt Serra]

Also home of ground control.

[Joe Rogan]

I guess I missed the matt.

[Matt Serra]

Sarah. This was a Totally.

[Dean Thomas]

For 30 years.

[Joe Rogan]

I know.

[Matt Serra]

We didn't talk about this at all.

[Dean Thomas]

Well, I saw mat his last time and I said, well, that's it. The green light. I'm shamelessly self promoting. And then Dean came down, I go.

[Matt Serra]

I got a young man.

[Dean Thomas]

He goes, I gotta represent.

[Matt Serra]

And then you came in with it. So I love to talk about.

[Joe Rogan]

I know, that's crazy. Like I'm left out of the loop here.

[Matt Serra]

I know. I wish we had some extras. I had an extra one too. You know what's so funny? I had one that was still in the package and I was like, should I bring this? I'm like, no, I don't need this.

[Joe Rogan]

I think you should have.

[Dean Thomas]

Been great.

[Matt Serra]

That was like the unit universe telling me that you needed one of these shirts and I ignored it.

[Dean Thomas]

That's great.

[Joe Rogan]

We're talking about stuff that's good for you and I've been telling you I've been eating a ton of pizza and I still got ass.

[Dean Thomas]

Oh, here it comes.

[Matt Serra]

Here comes Sarah. Slice.

[Joe Rogan]

Listen, can I tell you I'm sorry you guys are duping on me? I can see it in midtown right now. They fucking duping on me. Can I tell right now that I'm so proud of this? I don't like to brag a little. Yeah, a little bit. Dean does. He knows a little bit. But on Long island we have three champions. Four if you include Merab. You know he's adopted by us. Chris Weidman has his own day in Long Island. Al Jermaine Sterling has his own day. I'm not butthurt about having my own. Not my not having my own day. But I have something better, thank you. Talios from Acapequa park and Mineola. I have my own Sarah Slice. It's the best. Fucking. It'll knock your dick off. It's the best slice. I put it up against any slice.

[Dean Thomas]

That's right.

[Joe Rogan]

That you could. That you. That you give me. Listen, this kid Rob, there he is, my buddy Rob. Oh, he's talking about it. I'm going to show you guys how.

[Matt Serra]

We make the syrup of our Roman shell here.

[Joe Rogan]

We're going to go down with our grande.

[Matt Serra]

No moisture.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at this.

[Matt Serra]

Mozzarella. This is a very simple pizza. Stripes of our chow. Tomato sauce. Imported from Italy.

[Joe Rogan]

Imported from Italy. Sea salt, basil and olive oil.

[Matt Serra]

That is my recipe for my tomato sauce.

[Joe Rogan]

No sugar. Stop putting sugar in your sauce. Yes. And we have our beautiful house made vodka sauce. Dude.

[Matt Serra]

We make it with prosciutto di Parma.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm getting a. Hold on.

[Dean Thomas]

Tell them where the dough comes from, man.

[Joe Rogan]

He's gonna sit down with some Caputo. Caputo. Flour from Italy.

[Matt Serra]

Romano.

[Joe Rogan]

No bromate. No preservatives.

[Matt Serra]

Sicilian oregano.

[Joe Rogan]

We have some beautiful fiordi latte. Fresh mozzarella. Come on, man.

[Dean Thomas]

Just like to break up.

[Joe Rogan]

Just wait for the pestle on top. Wait for the pesto.

[Matt Serra]

Sarah. Super simple.

[Joe Rogan]

Going in the oven. Got eight minutes. Look at this thing. Look at this thing.

[Dean Thomas]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

This is one of the best advertisements.

[Dean Thomas]

For carbs I've ever seen.

[Matt Serra]

No problem.

[Joe Rogan]

No doubt. You know, I tell you, this is the only green I eat.

[Matt Serra]

Beautiful.

[Joe Rogan]

I eat that. Grated pecorino ready. Wait for it.

[Matt Serra]

Of course.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, the money shot. Let's fucking go.

[Matt Serra]

Rob, the pesto. Take a bite.

[Joe Rogan]

Guys, I'm so. I'm so proud. Sarah, come get it now.

[Matt Serra]

Both locations call your pizza. Thank you.

[Dean Thomas]

That's the first Time you'll ever see Matt's mouth shut.

[Matt Serra]

I'm so happy. So good.

[Joe Rogan]

You gotta go, dude. Why you ain't bring us none? Dude, can I tell you, I'm there all the time. I. I might. My podcast I'm doing, I found the first shop near Minneola train station. And I'm like, this fucking shit's ridiculous. You know? And then the guy happens to be a fan of the fighting Rob. So then he's like, look, I'm opening up another spot, dude, in Massapequa Park. Dude, that's five minutes from my house. This is meant to be. It's fucking meant to be. And now he's training now, Rob, so that's awesome. Kalios pizza. The G is silent like lasagna. And I just. I'm so happy.

[Matt Serra]

This guy is the number one problem with any of that carnivore diet. That's the number one. The number one problem is pizza.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah. No doubt.

[Matt Serra]

Italian subs.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. He was telling me that it's not even legal in Europe to have the bromate. I didn't know it was.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He goes, it's stuff they put in the. In the. The dough to make it last longer and this and that. This kid has such balls. Where he saw an importance twice as much for a flower. Caputo. Caputo flower. Dude, I don't know much. I know a lot about espresso. He tells me the whole thing about.

[Matt Serra]

You feel different if you eat that flour.

[Joe Rogan]

I'll eat this shit on the way to go train at my school. And I. I'm not doing that with Pietros. No offense. I'm not doing that with other. He has a. It's so good.

[Matt Serra]

Calcium bromate, a flour additive used to strengthen dough, may have potential health risks. While it's legal in the US it's banned in many other countries due to concerns about its potential carcinogenic effects. Studies have linked it to kidney and thyroid cancers in animals. Well, fucking du. And it's been associated with genotoxic and nephrotoxic effects in both animal models and humans. Acute symptoms from ingestion can include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and abdominal pain.

[Joe Rogan]

And they put this in our flower? Dude. That's what I'm saying. That's crazy.

[Matt Serra]

Causes changes in DNA and potentially lead to mutations.

[Joe Rogan]

Guys, what the. I'm telling you, man.

[Matt Serra]

Look at that statement.

[Dean Thomas]

That's crazy, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

That's why, man.

[Dean Thomas]

I notice it's placed at the end.

[Joe Rogan]

Give this kid so much credit. Nobody does this. People, they can't import the flower, it's just more. But this kid's killing it and it's fucking. And it's. It's such a difference, man. They say when you go to Italy and you come back and you're eating all that shit and you come back, you're not fat. It's that shit. It's the flower, man. And he makes the heroes out of the same flower.

[Matt Serra]

Jamie, do you remember that video that I sent you about that dude breaking down exactly what's in flour and why it fucks us up? Do you remember that video? You find it. It's a dude with the hat on who's the health expert, is a young guy and he does an amazing job of breaking down the difference between our flower and their flower. And you see, you get so upset, you're like, this is so crazy. You guys let them do this to us.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, in other countries, but legal here, how's that possible? Crazy.

[Matt Serra]

You would think.

[Joe Rogan]

Why are we putting up with this?

[Matt Serra]

Why? Why? Yeah, why would. It's because it's slow poison.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

It's not like alcohol is like, whoa, you feel it the next day, like, oh my God. Pizza is just a slow poison. Slow poison.

[Joe Rogan]

Without poison dough, it weighs you down.

[Matt Serra]

But it would.

[Joe Rogan]

This is the case, it would be.

[Matt Serra]

Just as good, just as good in terms of how you feel when you eat it. Just as good flavor wise. Just not kill you. Explain to me why I can eat bread in Spain and in. I can in Greece, Italy, no problem. I was gluten free. In 15 years I've been gluten free in.

[Joe Rogan]

Canada.

[Matt Serra]

America can't eat it. That's because in America what we call bread can't even be considered food in parts of Europe. See here in America, it's not so much the gluten as what we've done to the grain. About 200 years ago, we started stripping the bran and germ or the fiber and nutrients to make flour shelf stable, also nutritionally dead. Because the nutrients were gone, we enriched it with folic acid, which a large majority of the population can't even metabolize. Therefore, many people experience fatigue, anxiety, hyperactivity and inflammation. But then the bread wasn't white enough, so they bleached it with chlorine gas. The bread didn't rise enough, so they added a carcinogen called potassium bromate, which is banned in several countries like Europe, the UK and even China. Then we wanted to ramp up production, so we started using glyphosate to dry out the wheat before. Before harvest. Causing endocrine disruption and damaging your gut. So now you're bloated, brain fog, tired and blamed gluten. But gluten is just the scapegoat. The real issue is ultra processed, chemically altered, bleached, bromated, fake vitamin filled wheat soaked in glyphosate. This isn't bread. This is. That's. Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Neon sign up in his thing. No bleach, no bromate.

[Matt Serra]

That's amazing, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

I got abs though. I can eat pizza. It's like heaven.

[Dean Thomas]

He's at the right time now too, because people are starting to be made aware, you know, shot.

[Matt Serra]

It's. Yeah. And you can blame it on gluten all you want, but it go eat pizza in Italy. Give it a shot, you feel good.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like I'm doing that every day.

[Dean Thomas]

Pasta there.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, pasta there's incredible. There's a few places, you know, catching.

[Dean Thomas]

On how I cheat here on pasta. Like at back home, Depalis is the big Italian spot and they have. You can get ricotta gnocchi. So they're made with ricotta cheese. And you know, it's like maybe 5 grams of carbs and a thing of. Of noi.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. You could cheat it out. But if you really want to get blasted with some carbs, lasagna will do you in. Lasagna will do you in. Oh my God. There's something about Italian food. When I'm really hungry, I just can't help it. I don't care about my diet.

[Joe Rogan]

The sauces and all that stuff. Yeah, it gets you.

[Matt Serra]

You know Joe derosa, the comedian?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

He's got a place called Joey Roses. It's a sandwich shop. And Joey Roses, they import all their flour.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the thing.

[Matt Serra]

And it's the same thing. They, they make their bread fre day and they throw it out at the end of the day. They never use stale bread and they never use any preservatives. And he's like, that's the difference. Like you can eat these sandwiches and you feel good. It's crazy. That's rare. Isn't that weird?

[Joe Rogan]

That should not be how you consume food. You know what I'm saying? Like you should be feeling good after eat all the time.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, we're poisoning ourselves. And the fact that it's illegal in China and all these other places, like how is there we're more corrupt than them. That's crazy.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, that was part of it too. When you talk about the trade imbalances, some of our food not being able to go over there was just the fact that they wouldn't allow the.

[Matt Serra]

Because it's not even food.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly. They're like, not even legal. That bro meat. And. And it's crazy.

[Matt Serra]

It's up that we're feeding that to our kids. And these regulators knew about it. They knew about it for a long time. And they. If you're in that business is. That's your business. You know what's going on. And you guys let them just do that to people for profit because they can make more money this way. But also, there's a problem with feeding 300 million people.

[Dean Thomas]

That's a problem.

[Matt Serra]

Any disruptions to the food source is a dangerous thing because no one's growing. You know, we're all relying on someone else to do the growing work.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And then what are we doing? We're going to these farms and catching all the people that are doing the work. And then.

[Joe Rogan]

And we need that bro.

[Matt Serra]

We can't do anything right. Yeah, we can't do anything right. Be a little fair about the Bromate stuff. It's been used since 1923, and the FDA has been telling people to stop using it since 1991. Wow. They've been telling people to stop using it, but they didn't tell them they have to stop using it. Well, they urge. It's up to people who do whatever they want in America. But in America's. Is it the only place that uses it? I don't know about only.

[Joe Rogan]

I think they said Canada. Yeah, Canada. Of course they like our little brother.

[Matt Serra]

You know what I'm saying? This is part of the show where I talk about AG1, which I've done for years. And usually I like to talk about routine. And don't get me wrong, because routine is super important. And AG1 is exactly the kind of daily, easy routine that can help you feel healthy and help you get the nutrients that your body needs. But even if you love a routine, isn't it nice to switch it up a little? Well, here we go. After 15 years of the original, AG1 has introduced three new flavors. Tropical berry and citrus. It's still daily, it's still routine, but it's no longer one flavor fits all. And honestly, the best part is that's the only thing that's changed besides new flavors. We're talking about the same science, the same 75 plus ingredients, and the same exact benefits. I partnered with AG1 for so long because they're committed to constantly improving. And now that includes offering three new flavors. Subscribe today and choose Tropical citrus berry or the classic original variety. If you use my link, you'll also get a free bottle of AG D3K2 and an AG1 Welcome Kit and five AG1 Travel Packs with your first subscription. Just go to drink a1.com Joe Rogan or head to the link in the description to get started with AG1 and try the new flavors yourself. That's drink a1.com Joe Rogan. They're our little cousin. Gotta hang out with it. Family weddings, you know that one cousin, they text you later and you're like, she's. Jesus Christ.

[Joe Rogan]

We all got that one cousin, right?

[Matt Serra]

He's just like, yo, man, he wants to talk to you about communist theory. Like, come on, you.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, relax.

[Matt Serra]

Shut. Shut up. They're finding people for walking in the woods. You hear about that?

[Dean Thomas]

Where?

[Matt Serra]

In Saskatchewan. Is that where it is, Jamie?

[Joe Rogan]

Walking in the woods?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. This guy got fined 20. They. They told you that if you get caught in the woods because it's so hot out, they're worried about wildfires. There's no wildfires, but they're worried about wildfires. Every year you worry about wildfires. So to combat this, they can't find people. $28,000 to walk into the woods.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a lot of money.

[Matt Serra]

And one guy's like, fuck you, I'm going to the woods. And then he went viral, of course, man. Which is a good move, probably what's going on in the guy.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, they're put.

[Matt Serra]

$28,000 move.

[Dean Thomas]

They're putting thousands of people in jail for social media posts.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah, no banana stuff.

[Dean Thomas]

These fuck. It's getting. Everybody's going communist.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. One. One person put this Facebook post or something like that, critical of immigrants and saying they come over here and rape and murder our women. And because of putting that up on Facebook, this person got 20 months in jail.

[Dean Thomas]

Absolutely.

[Matt Serra]

20 months.

[Joe Rogan]

That was damn.

[Matt Serra]

In the UK. In the UK.

[Joe Rogan]

It's really crazy.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

A bunch of sensitive.

[Dean Thomas]

They've arrested Jesus.

[Matt Serra]

My friend Constantine Kissing from Trigonometry, the podcast. He's the one who first told me about all this because he. He had this conversation with this guy where he said, how many people do you think get arrested for social media posts in Russia? And you know, he tells them what the number is. It's like, it's like about 400. Like, oh, wow. He goes, how many people do you think get arrested for social media posts in the uk? And the guy was like, what? It was like, it's 4,000.

[Joe Rogan]

Damn.

[Dean Thomas]

True.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

What would the charge be for posting something.

[Matt Serra]

They don't have freedom of speech like we do. Dude, they.

[Dean Thomas]

I actually saw like a police cam video where the. The cop was telling them that. Yeah, but your post offended, like, just like.

[Joe Rogan]

What the do you mean?

[Dean Thomas]

I'm going to jail because my post offended someone?

[Matt Serra]

Like, get the fuck out of here. A man. What is this, Jamie? A man has been jailed for Facebook. Person encouraging violence. He's been jailed for 20 months for encouraging people on social media to attack a hotel in Leeds housing more than 200 migrants. So is this the same guy, Jamie?

[Joe Rogan]

I Googled.

[Matt Serra]

Man jailed in UK for Facebook post, 20 months. This is what came up. Interesting. Well, that's right.

[Dean Thomas]

That's Google funneling what they want you to see. Oh, he was talking about violence.

[Matt Serra]

No, but I'm not sure. I mean, maybe he was talking about.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, this guy obviously was. I'm willing to wager there were more where the.

[Matt Serra]

The. Where the. Whatever the guy with the wig is. What are they. What are they called over there?

[Dean Thomas]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

They wear the wig. If you could find the video, Jimmy, the guy's full on wearing the wig.

[Joe Rogan]

Like a George Washington wig.

[Matt Serra]

And so he reads the Facebook post that this guy made, you know, which wasn't nice, but then, you know, then he says, like, for this egregious crime, I sentence you to 20 months of detention. And even the word. The wording they use is weird. It wasn't like detention. It was like a weird euphemism for jail.

[Joe Rogan]

He's on timeout.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, it was weird listening to him talk. It's super dystopian. Since he's got a custodial sentence and he only has to serve half of it. Oh, so there's to serve 10 months in a prison for making a post on Facebook. Can you find the video, Jamie? Well, I'm sure find the video because I just. It's kind of funny when you see the guy's wig. Like, they have to wear the wig. That's like the move over there, the old school powdered wig, wasn't it?

[Dean Thomas]

Back in the day? Didn't they should wear them to hide shit from.

[Matt Serra]

No, it was syphilis.

[Joe Rogan]

Hold on, Wait.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, they were. Yeah, that's where the term big wig comes from, because the richest people got the biggest wigs. They all got syphilis. So this is what happened. They came over to America, right, when the. Like the. In the 1492 days. Yeah, when they came back, they brought syphilis. And syphilis just going rampant through these European cultures. And these people have.

[Joe Rogan]

So syphilis came from here and then went back there.

[Matt Serra]

This is the thought. So there's different types of syphilis, but they're pretty sure there's some evidence that indicates that one type of syphilis was transferred from Native American populations to Europeans. Native Americans who had already had a resistance to it, just like we had a resistance to smallpox and the flu when the Europeans came over here. And that's what the Indians did, and that's why they got wiped out. Well, they didn't have resistance to this kind of syphilis. This is like hole in your face. Your. Your hair falls out. This is the guy. Listen to this motherfucker.

[Joe Rogan]

You did not want your money going.

[Matt Serra]

To immigrants who, quote, rape our kids and get priority, end quote.

[Joe Rogan]

This offense is so serious that an immediate custodial sentence is unavoidable. Would you stand, please? The sentence that I passed has been reduced by one third to reflect your guilty plea. The sentence is one of 20 months imprisonment. Say that you didn't.

[Dean Thomas]

This guy said he didn't want his money going to immigrants and went to jail. This wasn't somebody threatening violence.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, they edited the post, so we don't know what else. Right. There wasn't edit. I was going to point that out. There's. There was a. There's something there. So this here's the thing too. Whenever it's possible for something like this to exist, whatever, it's possible, there's going to be a bunch of people from other countries that edit stuff to make you more mad at the people in the uk. Like, there's, There's. They're doing. China does that in America. There's a lot going on with social media and these kind of clips and posts and stuff. There's a lot more going on than makes sense.

[Joe Rogan]

People always bitch about America, but look at that shit. You know what I mean? They're not locking anybody up over here yet.

[Matt Serra]

You can't bitch about America. In comparison, if you, You. If you. The whole rest of the world is way worse in terms of what you're. How you're able to express yourself. The consequences of expressing yourself, like, this is a pretty good spot. It's just not perfect.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a cool thing. It feels weird now that it's like the younger generation, everybody's like, they just like. It feels cool to say, like, America. Like, people like, you wear an American shirt. They just think you're a MAGA guy or something. It's like, dude, well, you can't be proud of where you're from, from America. You can't be proud of your country.

[Matt Serra]

America is everything. It's all the things, you know, it's just we're so tribalized and we have to get over that. That's the number one problem is people decide that those people that they hate and they hate everything about them. And then, okay, now you got 50% of the country that you can't associate with that's not on your team. Like, what did you do? And so, well, now you have to justify everything your team believes in, including shit that doesn't make any sense and shit that is pro, probably immoral. You know, especially when it get. You get into like trans kid surgeries and like that. You have to sign off on that, right? Because if you don't, then you're signing off on these right wing bigots that want to, you know, put the Bible and everything. Yeah, you get. You're a Nazi. It's like we're. It's bad. Both. Both versions are bad. Of both sides. When you're looking at it from the other side. Because it's all cartoonish. Because most people live in the middle of.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, I mean, I mean, I feel that's 100% true. Most people are in the middle. I think you made like the point you made earlier too. You're getting just fired through the algorithm. You know, the shit that pisses you off, if that's what you're clicking on all day long anyway. So it just drives that wedge deeper and deeper, I think, because they're just inundated 24 7. Like sometimes you just gotta stop and get outside or watch a TV show to decompress.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the fucking problem though. You can't even enjoy, man, what they did with Star wars with the accurate. You can't even enjoy. I love the pop culture. I love movies. I tried to watch the Electric State, that fucking thing, because I love robots going fucking rogue.

[Matt Serra]

And AI Electric State.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a Netflix movie with Chris Pratt and it looked like a big budget was by the Russo brothers who did Avengers and shit. I go, it's about AI Robots. What I. Dude, what a piece of shit. I couldn't even get through the opening. And then I know what I don't like. I don't like when I'm watching a movie and already I see, okay, I know who the director voted for, like, you know, bringing up the uprising of the robots. And they go, and to celebrate the enslavement of the robots, Kid Rock did a Concert to. Oh, did he really? Did he really?

[Matt Serra]

You.

[Joe Rogan]

Know, okay, you're on that side. Go. I turned it off. Right, Go. You're bringing me right out of it because you're showing me like you're taking shots for the audience to know, dude, fuck off. I want to see some fucking robots. I want to see. I want to be entertained. I don't want to know about your fucking politics.

[Matt Serra]

I feel like we have political fatigue, though. I feel like most people are tired of talking about it. Most people, like, just stop.

[Joe Rogan]

That's where I'm at. I don't want to talk about the shit ever.

[Matt Serra]

It's also, it's like pretending that one side is beyond reproach is fucking ridiculous. And if you're one of those tribal people, you have to do that. You have to support your side and like that. That just gets nuts. You can't do that. There's too many people. There's too many financial interests. There's too much money. There's too much going on. There's too much. Why is there a bro bait in my bread?

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly. That's the political part.

[Matt Serra]

You have been doing a terrible job of taking care of us. You're not really taking care of us. We want to think you're like a cool counselor or something like that. It's like looking out for the rest of the. The kids that are on this camp together, you know, like, our councilman is going to take care of us. They got it. They're going to teach us to how to get through the woods. Meanwhile, they're just stealing money now.

[Dean Thomas]

You can't go to the woods. It's a 28,000.

[Matt Serra]

But that's Canada. I mean, but this, this is the problem with places that don't have the freedoms that we have. Like the Constitution, our founding fathers, they nailed it.

[Dean Thomas]

They really did.

[Matt Serra]

It's crazy that they nailed that so well. They knew human nature so well that it applies. Like, it's important 300 years later, maybe.

[Dean Thomas]

Since they came from a monarchy. You know what I. They. They gave them that perspective.

[Matt Serra]

They were so smart. But I wonder how many of them were there, right? Like, how many, like, really well educated people were around back then?

[Dean Thomas]

Think about the age.

[Joe Rogan]

Couldn't have been that many.

[Dean Thomas]

It ain't even that many now. A lot of young kids, you know, that were writing this thing.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, some of them are like in.

[Joe Rogan]

Their early 20s, but that's middle age back then.

[Dean Thomas]

That's a good point.

[Joe Rogan]

Nice.

[Matt Serra]

That's true. You get an infection back then.

[Joe Rogan]

Done by 35 over there.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, bro. The syphilis thing is really not nuts, though. But that is why that. That stupid thing that that guy was wearing on his head.

[Joe Rogan]

So that's the tradition. Tradition, yeah. Based off of syphilis. And they still do this today.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. And the guys with the most money had the biggest wigs. That's why they called them big, big wigs. It all started with these two brothers that were royals. Was it brother or a guy and his cousin? I forget. But these guys who are royals in France, and these guys were like, you know, the socialites. They were the. The celebrated people. And they started losing their hair because they're freaks. You know, they're probably up a storm over there and they're catching syphilis, and they got holes in their face and. And they smell awful and their hair's falling out, so they just get a wig. And then other dudes say, I want to be like him. So they got wigs. And then a bunch of people started getting syphilis. They covered it up with wigs.

[Joe Rogan]

But that's crazy to me that you're almost celebrating having syphilis by getting a bigger wig.

[Matt Serra]

Well, you know what it is? It's like you're not celebrating syphilis, but. But since everybody's wearing a wig, your wig is the dopest wig.

[Dean Thomas]

That's right.

[Joe Rogan]

You gotta have a dope one, right?

[Matt Serra]

Crazy that it's all because of sexually transmitted diseases wearing that.

[Dean Thomas]

It's crazy. It's our first export.

[Matt Serra]

I think it was smallpox, man. Smallpox wiped out whatever country. Yeah, the whole country. The whole. All of North America was filled with people. They all got killed. It's like 90% of the people got killed.

[Joe Rogan]

Damn. Hold on. What year was that?

[Matt Serra]

This was between the times of the first settlers to the, like, the 1800s. It was 90%.

[Dean Thomas]

90% Native Americans died from disease that, you know, Europeans brought, you know, that.

[Matt Serra]

For a long time, they were trying to deny. They were trying to figure out, like, what happened to the Mayans? Well, I'll tell you what happened to the Mayans. Disease, Disease. Obviously, Europeans, they had this spectacular civilization in Mexico. If you ever go down and you ever go and seen any of the ruins.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, I went to cheat. I was in Chichen.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I went there, too.

[Dean Thomas]

It's amazing.

[Matt Serra]

Dope. Yeah, it's dope. Like, what would they.

[Joe Rogan]

What.

[Matt Serra]

What drugs were these?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, how were they building that?

[Dean Thomas]

I don't know, man. A thousand years ago, amazing to see. And even, like, the. Remember that the ball court they had where you can stand at one end or the other and you could hear each other talking acoustics.

[Matt Serra]

And just the, the sheer size of it, it's like wow. And then just wiped out by a cough. Like dirty stinky Europeans right off the boat, breathing on everybody, swept through the people. No immunity to it. That's crazy.

[Dean Thomas]

That's pretty wild, man.

[Matt Serra]

It's exactly what happened to the, to all the Amazon too, man. They're finding that out now. The Amazon was all just disease.

[Joe Rogan]

Damn.

[Matt Serra]

Why? They had millions of people were living in the Amazon and some Europeans went to visit in like, I forget what year it was, but they came back and had these stories about these beautiful like cities and filled with gold and all this crazy. And then people went back 100 years later it was all gone and they said, oh, this guy was lying white tourists. But it wasn't right?

[Dean Thomas]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

Isn't that crazy? It wasn't lies. Yeah. Just so now they use LIDAR and they, they scan over the top of the forest and they see like where these cities used to be.

[Dean Thomas]

There's so much there that they haven't even uncovered.

[Matt Serra]

It's just nuts that it's, it's just dirty diseases. Those first people, they, hey coming over.

[Dean Thomas]

They were hard ass enough to make it here, you know, they were bringing some with them.

[Matt Serra]

Oh bro, you know how hard people must have been back then. Can't even just to even say, okay, I'mma try it. When someone says, hey, we got a wood boat. We're going to go out there. We have no idea we're going. We don't.

[Joe Rogan]

I've always give Christopher Columbus credit for that shit. On a fucking wooden boat in the middle. Like I can't even fucking find directions to get to the fucking apex half the time.

[Matt Serra]

The crazy thing is we give him credit for landing here and he didn't even make it here. Yeah, he landed like the Indies, right? Like the West Indies. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you got something to say, sell or share with the world, you need a legit online presence. Me, I use Squarespace to power my website. It's easy to use and with their AI enhanced website builder and built in tools for booking, payments, emails, all of it, you can actually run your business. Not just build a site. Go to squarespace.com rogan for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use the code rogan to get 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain. Where did Columbus actually land? It was like near the Bahamas. He wasn't Even in America.

[Dean Thomas]

Bahamas.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm gonna fuck where he landed. That motherfucker went out into the ocean 500 years ago.

[Matt Serra]

We give him Christopher Columbus Day.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, I'm looking at the Vikings. These, you know, just conquered oceans, going everywhere.

[Matt Serra]

So what does it say here? San Salvador in the Bahamas. Yeah. His first landed, an island in the Bahamas. Like, that is not America. You don't get credit for. You don't get credit for discovering America.

[Dean Thomas]

Italians are. We're taking credit anyway.

[Matt Serra]

But that's probably when them diseases started hitting them areas. History of smallpox goes back to the 6th century, starting in China. Smallpox does?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Interesting. Right? So the 6th century and then was it mostly smallpox that killed off the Native Americans, or was it a bunch of different diseases that we brought with us?

[Joe Rogan]

17Th century European settlers bring smallpox.

[Matt Serra]

There's an amazing guy named. What is that, Jimmy? What they. European settlers are here with Christopher Columbus. That's in the 16th century, not 17. Right. 1500s. Right. He landed in 1490.

[Dean Thomas]

14.

[Matt Serra]

Right. Well, it's probably like how many people came. You know what I mean? Like, when Christopher Columbus came, that was. So this is 1492. He lands in the Bahamas. Like 100 years. Yeah. How many people got. Were interacting with them? You know, I mean, how many people. Once they started coming over here regularly? Like, when did folks started hopping in boats and coming over regularly, like the early settlers?

[Joe Rogan]

I wouldn't have did it.

[Matt Serra]

No way. Those people were animals, man.

[Dean Thomas]

For real.

[Matt Serra]

You're gonna take a chance you you that this dude knows how to get across the ocean in a wooden boat using a thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

We stare at the stars and try to figure out where you are. And he's drunk all the time. Jamestown was 1607 when that started. That's when it started. Huh. Interesting.

[Dean Thomas]

Well, that's would be.

[Matt Serra]

So that's probably makes sense for us, like a hundred years. They talked about it. Isn't that kind of crazy?

[Joe Rogan]

I, like, in Vikings.

[Matt Serra]

Talked about America for a hundred years before they came over.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, no shit.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. So it's like he lands in the Bahamas, then a hundred years later.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Started.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Then they start. The first. The first.

[Dean Thomas]

I wonder how long it took him just to get across.

[Matt Serra]

You imagine what it'd be like setting up a colony in a new country. And, you know, there's people with bows and arrows waiting.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Just waiting to find you.

[Matt Serra]

The first people that set up the conflict, they knew.

[Joe Rogan]

They knew that there's Indians waiting for.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah. Everybody knew. They knew that this was inhabited and they knew the type of people, they'd come back. You know, whether it was Columbus's people or the other, whoever was here came back and they had all these crazy stories about, you know, interacting with. Also the craziest stories were from. There was a. One of the guys was a priest or something, some holy man that was traveling with Columbus who had detailed descriptions of the horrific Columbus and his men did to whoever the indigenous people. Oh, horrible. Where they. They were saying, if you don't bring back your weight in gold, we'll chop off your arms. They were chomping arms off dashing babies, heads on rocks.

[Dean Thomas]

Jesus Christ.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. They were forcing these people to bring them gold. It's like, do you remember that guy's name? Father something or another. So he had his memoirs of his time over there with Christopher Columbus's people. And it was horrific. So these people that we celebrate, this is one thing that the wokesters got right. You know, if you want to celebrate Christopher Columbus, like, Christopher Columbus, we have Columbus Day. Like, be careful who you're celebrating. If that father, that priest was telling the truth, you're celebrating a monster. You're celebrating like a. Literally, like a mass murderer who would go to another. I mean, but it's believable when you.

[Joe Rogan]

Think about history, like, bro, that's all they did for sure.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, everybody conquered everybody at one point or another.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. And when there was no Internet, you could get away with a lot.

[Dean Thomas]

A whole lot.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Nobody knew you were coming. You're coming with boats. You're people up, you're taking all their shit. And when you land places, you're like. It was like, this is probably the only time in history where a boat can land in a place and it's not hostile. In America, when boats come here, it's.

[Dean Thomas]

Like, depends on where you land.

[Matt Serra]

We're good. But for the most part, most boat travels not hostile. It's like, oh, look, a big boat full. People, they're gonna come eat at our restaurants. And strange people from a different land are gonna come and enjoy what we have to offer here in Portugal or wherever you are.

[Dean Thomas]

Some people are counting on that, bro.

[Matt Serra]

It used to be a boat showed up, you didn't know it was on the street. Yeah, yeah. You hear a. A shell. You gotta wake up, put your armor on. I can't believe I gotta do this.

[Joe Rogan]

Imagine.

[Dean Thomas]

Just imagine that, bro.

[Matt Serra]

That's how they live forever. That's how people live for thousands of years. It's nuts. It's amazing we made it as far as we did.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know if we'll do another thousand. I think not with these negative little. No, I'm just saying, like think, think about it where we are now. Like those dudes, they was hard, right? Like they. Regardless, they was hard. Now we in tick tock culture, there's.

[Matt Serra]

A lot of that. And there's an encouragement of men to not be strong, which is always weird.

[Dean Thomas]

Pushing.

[Matt Serra]

That's a male thing. It's always weird. There's that encouragement. It comes from people that aren't strong. They want more people like them. People more like. Yes. And when they're in control of social media, that's where things get weird.

[Joe Rogan]

The accolades, they. I'll tell you, they clipped all the balls from the Jedis. Nobody's gonna want an action figure of.

[Matt Serra]

That little Star Wars.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I mean they, they, they just.

[Dean Thomas]

Look, I mean they pussified the Hulk and Marvel.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

They gave him glasses and now you can talk like now. It doesn't make any sense that you would go back and forth between being the Hulk and being Bruce Banner.

[Dean Thomas]

They made the Silver Surfer a chicken week.

[Matt Serra]

You know.

[Joe Rogan]

That wasn't that great, that movie. But Superman, that is a weird Superman.

[Matt Serra]

It's a weird choice to give a guy role to a girl. It's a weird choice because there's so many girl roles in, in Super.

[Dean Thomas]

There was tons of chick superheroes.

[Matt Serra]

Especially in the X Men. The X Men had plenty.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, tons of them. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

They gotta do that over.

[Matt Serra]

Right now it's like you've got Superwoman, you got. There's plenty of different characters you could play. Like, I don't know why.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, why?

[Matt Serra]

Unless you're trying to prove a point like Matt, Sarah says, I know who you voted for.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. To be fair, there is a female Silver Surfer.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah. Well, here's, here's the deal with that. She was in maybe two.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

Episodes where she mattered. And the rest of them she was mentioned like she's not a real character.

[Matt Serra]

I used to love the Silver Surfer. Did anybody ever do a comic surfer flat out movie that's any good.

[Dean Thomas]

He's not a straight up one. I thought the first Fantastic Four when they, they got the surfer pretty good in that one.

[Matt Serra]

Why wouldn't they have a Silver Surfer movie?

[Joe Rogan]

That's like my favorite character.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, Silver Surfer, cosmic character.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Zen as, never gets upset, thousand percent.

[Dean Thomas]

Basically sacrificed himself to save his planet and his girl.

[Joe Rogan]

Bro.

[Matt Serra]

The Silver Surfer is literally the coolest comic book guy.

[Joe Rogan]

He made him look cool in this.

[Matt Serra]

Even Rise of the Silver Surfer. Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

I thought this Was a. They did him good in this.

[Matt Serra]

They did a version of a whole episode of the Avengers or a whole movie of the Avengers on the Silver Surfer.

[Joe Rogan]

I forgot Fantastic Four.

[Matt Serra]

What year was that?

[Dean Thomas]

This was fantastic.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah. Fantastic Four. This was pre 2007.

[Dean Thomas]

This was when Jessica Alba was the Invisible Woman 2000 and Captain America was the Human Torch. That got Chris Evans.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Who played Silver Surfer in this?

[Matt Serra]

I. I don't.

[Dean Thomas]

I don't remember.

[Matt Serra]

It might have been all seasons.

[Dean Thomas]

They got. They nailed it. I thought.

[Joe Rogan]

The voice was Lawrence Fishermer. I remember that when I was chubby. I look like Michael Chiclets. Kind of looked like the Thing. But, yeah, I saw that new Fantastic Four movie and it wasn't overly woke or anything, but they could have done more with the Thing, which.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, I heard he was like a minor part.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, the girls had the best parts. They're the ones that did the Thing with Galactus at the end. No spoilers. Was. Fuck.

[Dean Thomas]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

So, you know. But I am happy to say, and I know you were waiting for me to bring it up, I enjoyed the new Superman.

[Matt Serra]

I didn't see it yet.

[Joe Rogan]

Of course not.

[Matt Serra]

We're all adults.

[Joe Rogan]

Except for me.

[Matt Serra]

I want to see it, though. I heard it's good.

[Joe Rogan]

James Gunn, man. I know. I don't believe I never heard of that song. Punk Rocker by Teddy Bears. Oh, that'll change your life. It has Iggy Pop in it. Oh, it gets my nipples hot. It's so good. And the movie, if you like Guardians of the Galaxy, which I'm sure you.

[Dean Thomas]

Did, they were good.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Then you'll like this because it's just fun. Let's have fun again.

[Dean Thomas]

That's it.

[Joe Rogan]

I am not against the Henry Caval. Caval one. He was a badass.

[Dean Thomas]

He was good.

[Joe Rogan]

But.

[Matt Serra]

Kind of weird that we still want to see the same characters over and over and over again in different versions of the same movie. Like, isn't it kind of weird?

[Joe Rogan]

No, because people love those.

[Matt Serra]

I understand. But it's like there's a little thing of it that it's like seeking comfort in in this thing. Oh, it's Superman again.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, not letting go of our childhood.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Because, like, try coming up with a new Superman today. People are gonna be like, fuck you. Like some new kind of comic book guy. Like, not. No background at all in comic book. So you. You come up with a superhero type character now in a movie. No one's gonna watch it.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

Like, I don't know. I don't want a new one. No. One wants a new one. Everyone wants the Hulk. Everybody wants Spider Man. You want to see Spider Man? There's like, how many different dudes have been the Hulk? Four or five dudes.

[Dean Thomas]

They kept changing.

[Matt Serra]

The Hulk was good. Yeah. Norton was the best.

[Dean Thomas]

They got rid of him because he wanted to keep the Hulk. Like the Hulk. You know what I mean?

[Matt Serra]

They didn't like it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

That was my favorite version of the Hulk.

[Joe Rogan]

And he's running through the favelas in br, Right?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That was awesome.

[Matt Serra]

When. When the Hulk starts running through that factory and he smashes. Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

Hell yeah.

[Matt Serra]

That's when it was like. See, you kind of knew it was. You're looking at it like a cgi. It's a comic, but as long as you keep it kind of darkly lit, you know, don't. Don't show me too much.

[Joe Rogan]

They got better with that. They got better with the.

[Matt Serra]

That wasn't too long ago for Hancock. That was a superhero. That was just out of nowhere.

[Joe Rogan]

I can't watch anything with this guy anymore.

[Dean Thomas]

Real corny.

[Joe Rogan]

And this guy's doubling down on smacking Chris Rock. You know that he has a verse is like, you. You disrespect me on the stage, Expect me on the stage. Which is kind of cool, saying. But, you know, I mean, that was horseshit.

[Dean Thomas]

Doubling down on spiral, downward spiral.

[Matt Serra]

And.

[Dean Thomas]

And then, I mean, you're basically. He stole our show name because he is a cuck. You saw what the hell. His wife is humiliated. That poor guy.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Publicly. Yeah. That was weird.

[Dean Thomas]

And he was universally loved, and now he's pretty well, almost universally reviled.

[Matt Serra]

You know, Chris.

[Joe Rogan]

And then everybody loves that Chris Rock.

[Dean Thomas]

His music.

[Joe Rogan]

I was about to say his rap is so trash. Garbage.

[Matt Serra]

Sometimes you hit your horse to the wrong wagon.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And that. That'll take you on a bad journ journey. So I'll take you on a bad journey. And you might. You might hang in there for a while and keep your sanity for a while, but eventually, if you're living with someone who's not right for you and there's a lot of tension, which there seems to be with them. A lot of weird, important decision.

[Joe Rogan]

Is the spouse the most important decision.

[Matt Serra]

Gigantic.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, look at the kids. I mean, at least the son who.

[Matt Serra]

You imagine if you had to camp out with your best friend. Friend for the rest of your life, you would have to really be careful. Like, I have to pick one dude, and I'm going to be able to camp out with him for the rest of my life. Just me and him in a tent for the rest of my life.

[Joe Rogan]

And you get to him. Personality.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. But now you add in sex and the fact that you're not even the same gender.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you gotta be. My thing is, I always say you gotta be compatible. Like, you know what I mean? Me and my wife, very compatible.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, me too.

[Joe Rogan]

Because, man, I can't.

[Dean Thomas]

Lucky.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I can't stand anybody.

[Matt Serra]

Well, you know, you just got to be picky. And some people aren't. Some people just settle for hot. Yeah, that's the problem. And that's always the most chart with.

[Dean Thomas]

The hot and the crazy.

[Matt Serra]

Problem.

[Joe Rogan]

The girls settle for. All right, I gotta get a kid soon. I'm gonna be 30 or, you know, so they'll settle for Mr. Good Enough. So that's the most important fight. It's gotta be hard for the girls out there, too. Bunch of savages.

[Matt Serra]

It's hard for everybody out there. It's a. It's a weird time. And now everybody's on dating apps. So everybody.

[Dean Thomas]

Cultures change.

[Matt Serra]

Opportunity at every swipe of the finger.

[Dean Thomas]

Today, it's like, socially acceptable to be a hoe.

[Matt Serra]

I think it's also, it's. There's real concerns that intelligent people have about population decline. That sounds kind of crazy, like, well, we're not going to population plenty of people. But the problem is people are not having nearly as many people, like, replacement people. It's like, not enough. Like, in order for a society to exist at the same numbers, essentially everyone has to have kids. Kids. Right, Right. But a giant percentage of people, like, in our generation and younger generations are not having kids. They're deciding to opt out of it and just focus on their career.

[Dean Thomas]

And they say in Italy and here, I mean, Japan, like, they're all having a negative, you know, population over the years. Like, they're not having enough kids to sustain the population.

[Matt Serra]

And you add into that microplastics that are killing everybody's balls.

[Dean Thomas]

Knocking their. Knocking down your. You're.

[Matt Serra]

It's kind of weird. It's like a thing that we don't see coming. You know, we don't see it coming, like, real population. But places like Japan are freaking out, man. They're. They're really worried about it. South Korea. Same thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. It could be a real problem.

[Joe Rogan]

I didn't even know that was a thing.

[Matt Serra]

Well, it just makes sense, man, if you've got. Everybody just wants to have a career. And if you can't focus on your career because you have kids, you put your kids off till you're in your late 40s.

[Dean Thomas]

What's the number? Like, the 2.1 or something? You know, you have to have 2.1 kids in order to maintain, you know, just the current level of population.

[Matt Serra]

Someone was telling me that in vitro fertilization, which a lot of women use, that those hormones that they have to give you are linked to cancer.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Matt Serra]

Is that true, Jamie? Can you find. Can you look that up? Because someone. Someone brought it up to me, and I was like, I don't know if that's really.

[Joe Rogan]

And why is testosterone in the younger generation not as strong as it used to?

[Matt Serra]

Microplastics.

[Dean Thomas]

He had a lady on that, went deep into that stuff.

[Matt Serra]

There's no strong evidence to see. This is AI. AI is working for the government, man. Okay, let's see. National Institute of Health says transient increase in the risk of having breast or uterine cancer. So as soon as you start admitting things like that to me. And this says no conclusive evidence. The fertilitary. 1999. Yeah. Six years old, right? What does it say, like, 17? Do not. It says, doesn't. Treatments do not increase the risk of ovarian cancer, malignant melanoma, or cancers of the endometrium. Why am I skeptical? I don't know, but maybe I'm skeptical because you're using Google. Well, I mean, I know, but you know what I'm saying, that's the place to use. But I would wonder how much of that would be available, like, if someone. If someone's some sort of an alternative doctor or someone who's stepping outside of the lines and saying, I'm treating a bunch of cases of cancer. Like, where would you even find that guy's work? I don't know. No idea. Twitter. Yeah, that's the problem, right? You see a thing on Twitter, you're like, is this guy a quack?

[Dean Thomas]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

Is this guy real? But a person told it to me that I trust, and I was like, really? That stuff causes cancer? Because, like, that's. You're. You got to dose yourself up with a bunch of hormones when ladies do that in vitro fertilization thing.

[Joe Rogan]

All I know is I like that now at our age, we're all in our 50s. Are you 50 yet? Next year. Okay. I'm still in my 40s, man. I mean, are you on TRT yet? Yeah, yeah, I got a little bit. Thank God we have that, man, because back in the day, yeah, you'd fall. They'd be up at our.

[Dean Thomas]

Back in the day. We would just find it on the street.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think you'd ever.

[Matt Serra]

You had a different neighborhood. But those guys were right. That's what's crazy, is, like, old juice heads were right in a lot of ways. Like, there's a lot of old juice heads in the gym that were looking jacked in their 50s and 60s. Bobby just stays on D ball. You'd meet people in the gym that would tell you, like, what they do and how they did it. And then you had to take advice from those folks. And a lot of fighters got their. You would think by the time a fighter gets to the ufc, you know, like, well, he's probably got a professional team behind him, a bunch of, like, really organized folks. Like. No, no. These dudes come with sketchy characters, like, super sketchy connections to the streets.

[Dean Thomas]

Just read as much as I could, you know? Know if you were gonna. You try to get as much information as you could about what you're putting in yourself.

[Matt Serra]

The best guy is online is Derek.

[Dean Thomas]

Oh, now. Now, today he wasn't around.

[Matt Serra]

I know, but he's like, the best.

[Dean Thomas]

You know, he's a smart.

[Matt Serra]

Smart, real.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I wouldn't with that myself. Like, I go to a place that, you know, they check my blood every six weeks. You got to donate blood now. You gotta do this. And that's fat. So it doesn't get too thick, you.

[Matt Serra]

Know, because I heard that before, but I don't have that problem for some reason.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, it doesn't do it. I think it doesn't, you know, every.

[Matt Serra]

Once in a while.

[Dean Thomas]

Doesn't do it to everybody.

[Matt Serra]

Like, make sure I'm okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you're perfect because they're supposed to get you.

[Matt Serra]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

I only had to do the blood twice. You do it every six weeks? No.

[Dean Thomas]

You mean you're getting.

[Joe Rogan]

No, they check me. They check me, and if it gets too high, my red blood cells, whatever.

[Dean Thomas]

Oh, so you're just getting the finger prick to see what you're.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, they take a little blood out and then they check it and then check all my. Everything.

[Dean Thomas]

Well, they can do your red blood cell count. Like, if you go donate blood, they prick your finger and check what your level is.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I go there. Well, I. My place finds out first, and then they say, all right, I could either do a dump there. But they don't use the blood. I like to donate it because.

[Matt Serra]

Do you have unvaccinated blood? Do you have pure blood?

[Joe Rogan]

I got pure blood, man.

[Matt Serra]

Do you?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't.

[Dean Thomas]

They pay me.

[Matt Serra]

They pay me. They got double which one they get three times.

[Joe Rogan]

I Got all three of them. Yeah, I got all. I had to. I had to. Why?

[Matt Serra]

Because you had to work.

[Joe Rogan]

I had to work. UFC made me wait. Yeah, they made it. They didn't make me.

[Matt Serra]

I didn't know travel though. If you traveling all the place, some.

[Dean Thomas]

Of these countries weren't letting you in without it.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They wouldn't let.

[Matt Serra]

When you make someone take something because they. The only way they can use your service is if they take. Because you think that this thing is going to work and it doesn't work work. Shouldn't you be able to go. You, you made me take this and this didn't even work. Yeah, it didn't even do any of the things you said it is.

[Joe Rogan]

I feel bad for the people.

[Matt Serra]

It's crazy what you can get away with in the world, especially during something like a pandemic, you know, where everybody just agrees to different rules. Because that's what happened during the pandemic.

[Joe Rogan]

I was thinking about that. Are people still dying from COVID No, that's what I'm saying. Like what happened today.

[Matt Serra]

There's people that are dying with COVID So there's people that are dying and they also have Covid. But they're dying. Yeah, right. And that's the difference. And that's why the numbers for the deaths were elevated so high.

[Dean Thomas]

You got a cancer.

[Matt Serra]

Shark attack. Check the fetus. He's got Covid. Yeah. Like everybody died of COVID They if because they were financially incentivized in people to treat deaths as COVID deaths.

[Dean Thomas]

Same with the ventilators. They were getting more money if they had somebody put on a ventilator and then they find out the ventilators were killing people.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Imagine that.

[Matt Serra]

There was so much craziness. Like you know, when we were saying we hope that someone is in charge that knows exactly what to do. And no, there's a lot of times in history you have no idea what the they're doing and then financial interests get involved and then they come up with, we're, we're going to just make everybody take this. This is going to be amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, A lot of money.

[Matt Serra]

Load of money.

[Joe Rogan]

Holy. By the way, they want to just.

[Matt Serra]

Take it once, two, three times.

[Dean Thomas]

They can't take you to court. No liability.

[Matt Serra]

Cuz they called it a vaccine when it's not even really a vaccine, it's a gene therapy. It's a totally novel new thing that you're giving to 300 million people just in this country alone.

[Joe Rogan]

The ads were so shady. Like I'd Be in my car and it'd be like two students talking like, my parents don't want me to take it, but I'm really nervous. It was like really crazy. I'm like, what the.

[Dean Thomas]

Is this so nuts, bro?

[Matt Serra]

That's so nuts. You know how many people have stories where they let their kid take it and then the kid has a stroke? This is. They're all over online.

[Dean Thomas]

Myocarditis was a big thing.

[Matt Serra]

Myocarditis, yeah. There's undiagnosed myocarditis out there too, I bet, where people just. Just feel tired all the time. Feel a little fatigued. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So am I the only one here who got the vaccine?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, Jamie got Covid real early. Jamie survived it early. So I knew. I knew it was not that big a deal.

[Joe Rogan]

Good job, Jamie.

[Matt Serra]

Jamie took one for the team. Jamie toughed it through. Like, Jamie seems okay. All right.

[Dean Thomas]

All right.

[Matt Serra]

And then Tony Hiff got it. He got it worse than Jamie. He had a little longer than you, right? You don't remember. Yeah, man. It's the creepy thing is these. They meet and then they say there will be another pandemic. How do you know?

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, well, what about Biden and friends were trying to sign one with the WHO where they had control over being able to shut the US down, like.

[Matt Serra]

Yes.

[Dean Thomas]

And all this nonsense. Thank God we pulled right the out of that. That Trump.

[Matt Serra]

What a dumb idea. Let some giant global health organization have say over. Over fully corrupt.

[Dean Thomas]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

Let these run the country because Bill.

[Dean Thomas]

Gates is number one donator to it.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Just nuts, man. It's just nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

Crazy. Before I got here, I was watching Kamzat vs Kamor. Not. Not to just jump into that now, but.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, let's jump into it. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, I had Drake is on Unfiltered the other day and you know, he's a. He's an intelligent guy, man. He's not going. He's not a guy that doesn't do his homework. And he was just saying about. Everybody talks about how aggressive Khamzat is and he goes watch his fight in Kamaru Usman the second round. Over three minutes of him just standing, standing there. He's like, he's not going to be able to do that to me. He's going to be working the whole time. He trained so hard that he puts out everything in that five minutes. That one minute gets him right back. It's almost like he approaches that like five different fights. Like, you know what I mean? Because in that one minute, he comes back down and Then he goes back out there again. Drake is. And we were just talking that we saw. You saw the same thing I saw with his grappling ability. He took out a whole. I mean, listen, it's different. Those guys are a lot of guard players. He did a quintet and submitted everybody. Yeah, again, they were more jujitsu guys. It's a different type of style. But that was impressive. Not to mention. And I, I looked, you know, the. My producers gave me his bio and everything and I'm like, dude, he started his first thing in the first entry into martial arts was at 5 years old doing judo. And his second discipline was at 12 years old doing wrestling. I mean it's not like he's not a grappler. Everybody's just so used to him fucking throwing his bombs and his kicks.

[Dean Thomas]

Well, you know, I'm on your side. This. We had that talk last night.

[Matt Serra]

I mean he's. He's a monster.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And there's guys. And you know this because you, you work with marab. There's guys that reach this level of discipline and they achieve a level of cardiovascular performance that's just above everybody else's. And then they maintain it. Like they get that advantage and they keep pushing it and they slowly keep adding on to it. Like you're seeing Merab now.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh my God.

[Matt Serra]

Particularly in the. The second o' Malley fight you're seeing, it's like a totally different beast. He's super non stop and you can't. Relentless, you can't keep up with that. You know, he's like, it's just hard work. It's just hard work.

[Joe Rogan]

I believe that.

[Matt Serra]

But man.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, but state of mind too, like mental. He believes it mentally.

[Matt Serra]

But you know, the amount of hard work is extraordinary to get to that level. And I think Drus is kind of a similar kind of guy. I think that dude works so hard that he can go out there and fight full blast. Which is what's weird to when you watch him fight, like sometimes it doesn't look as clean.

[Dean Thomas]

He looks like he's mouth breathing, but he just keeps the same.

[Matt Serra]

That was a lot of. That was the earlier fights before he got his. Got his nose fixed. So he got his nose fixed. All right. So he could breathe out of his nose.

[Dean Thomas]

Makes sense.

[Matt Serra]

Changed everything. And then went on a tear after that was. That's when he crushed Whitaker. Like the Whitaker one was shocking like because we all know how durable Whitaker is. The Yoel Romero fights. Like that guy's durable as to watch him just flatten him like that. You're like, whoa.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, hang on. He's funny. He says. He goes, I don't. He's like, I don't have a great poker face. He goes, people say I look tired because I am tired.

[Dean Thomas]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And when you get tired, you breathe out of your mouth more. And he goes, but even if I am tired, I don't have a poker face. But I'm still coming forward. I'm still gonna say. And he has. He's got. Man, he's got confidence. He's beaming with confidence. He's just that guy. I mean, he's a good champion. Great champ, speaks well. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

It's interesting, the Izzy fight. I went and watched that again, and, you know, it seemed like Izzy had an advantage up to a point, but then the pressure got to him. Then he got hit with a couple of those long shots. He got hit, and it just looked like he just didn't have enough in him to fight his way out of it. And when he went down, he got submitted pretty quickly afterwards. But I would wonder, what. Is he in his prime? How that fight would have looked? Because that would have been a lot different. A lot. You know, is he in his prime when he was, you know, he's a.

[Joe Rogan]

Little quicker, a little better angles. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Hadn't been damaged.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

It's just. And there's the damage of training is like.

[Joe Rogan]

Like.

[Matt Serra]

But like, Izzy. Paulo Costa. Yeah, that's prime. Yeah, that's prime. That's also motivated. Izzy, like you, he was sitting down on his shots. Is he.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I mean, put him away quick and then dry humped him.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

You know?

[Dean Thomas]

Terrible.

[Matt Serra]

Don't do that, kids. But that is. That would have been very, very interesting to see him versus. Versus Dreckers, because he could have handled that pressure. Because that pressure. The pressure is bananas, you know? Like Anthony. The Anthony Hernandez fight this past weekend. Jesus, that pressure is nuts. Crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

You could. Man. I was like, you couldn't keep up with him, dude. He looked like a different level.

[Dean Thomas]

He looked great.

[Joe Rogan]

Roman looks amazing.

[Matt Serra]

He's. He looks like a world champion. He looks like a world champion.

[Dean Thomas]

Spoiled it for you guys. Sorry about that.

[Matt Serra]

No worries. No worries. No worries. No, I. I was out. Yeah. When I came home, I was like, I didn't see it yet, but I watched it as soon as I got home. I was super impressed, man. And that. That whole division is like, jesus. There's so many different contenders in that division, you know, you got Bahalia. Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

This whole fight card, another dude with a gas tank.

[Matt Serra]

Strickland like, what's gonna happen with Strickland? They suspended him indefinitely for punching some dude.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Did you see that?

[Joe Rogan]

Like, he didn't have to do that, man. Those guys got it. Him and Chris Curtis, man, they just. Man, you can't with them. Yeah, because they. Yeah, they will not back down. You just can't with him.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, and you can't. But you can't jump into a cage and punch.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what I'm saying.

[Matt Serra]

Like, camera in front of everybody.

[Joe Rogan]

That guy was being a little disrespectful, though. I like Strickland. That guy. I mean, that was kind of. And then they interview that guy after. He's like, you know, he doesn't have a. Anything on the mic. He's like, yeah, well, it's entertainment. It's like, oh, boy, here we go.

[Dean Thomas]

Jesus.

[Joe Rogan]

He got what he wanted.

[Matt Serra]

He got his. What he wanted.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he got his two seconds.

[Matt Serra]

But Sean is crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, man, those guys, he's really.

[Matt Serra]

Hey, man, he is what he sells.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

You know, I mean, he walks that.

[Dean Thomas]

Definitely not an act.

[Matt Serra]

You ever see when that guy tried to. Well, the guy who's like running from the cops and he was sneaking around his house. Sean came out with a pistol.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, I did see that.

[Matt Serra]

The dude had like crashed DUI and then jumped out of the car running into the wrong yard. Right into strong Sean Strickland a lot.

[Joe Rogan]

Of times now, sitting in the house.

[Dean Thomas]

Waiting to shoot some bro.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a weird dream for him.

[Dean Thomas]

But.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but you know, nowadays with that guy and that, being disrespectful like that. This is so. Everybody's so used to no repercussions. It's like, yeah. So everybody just gets so much ruder.

[Dean Thomas]

I always say that bring. Bring bullies back.

[Matt Serra]

The world was a better place, you know, teach everybody martial arts.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, I. That would help because I mean, it's.

[Matt Serra]

Just sucks when a guy who is into martial arts like Strickland does something.

[Joe Rogan]

I told them a story last night where I long goes again. This kid wants to do an interview. His mother's a little overbearing and, you know, she's a little crazy. But then how about the kid? The kid's a nice kid. So I'm like, all right. So after a Saturday class, I got like 60 people. You know, I'm a. I get. My nights aren't great because my ulcerative colitis. But, you know, I. I'm energetic. I do my class. I do this thing for this kid. 12 year old kid. And the Mother's like, oh, we want to inspire the youth of today. Because they're all little shit. She's an Irish lady little. And then so I sit down with this kid. I'm like, all right. He goes, okay, I'm here with freaking UFC legend Matt Sarah, and I'm 12 years old, and yet we managed to be the same exact height. I got. I got blind started by this little so now. And when he said that the husband and the wife are the husband's behind the. I'm like, dude, I'm seeing real. Hey, I want a.

[Matt Serra]

So they're laughing.

[Joe Rogan]

In other words, they want a response. So I'm like, so my first thought was directed towards the father who might have taught this kid no manners.

[Dean Thomas]

Stop lying. The kid's your size. You wanted to hit it.

[Joe Rogan]

I wanted to see. I wanted to do a Loki in that. I was gonna take that little. So then I remembered that I got my daughters in there. So I go. So he tried to ask me. I go, oh. So I. I go, who came up with that question, buddy? He goes, me, me. Now this kid knows I can't strangle him. I want to kill his fat father. And then I remembered my three daughters are in there. So I go inside, I go. I just. I can't. I go, give me one second, kid. I go inside, I go, maria, this kid's giving me a hard time. I want you to roll with him and put it on him. Okay? On my Instagram, this kid wanted clicks. 38,000 views of my. I got my daughter strangled the fuck out of this kid and I. And we got some clips. Clicks. And it was talking to the kid. Repercussions, Joe, re. Percussions. Who's my height now, kid.

[Dean Thomas]

On the video. Oh, you're gonna get some clicks on this.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you want some clicks, you little. And they, you know, wow. Oh, you see my daughter.

[Matt Serra]

Mercy for the 12 year old. Crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

And then after my daughter said, I go, you want to off from the feet or photo on the knees. He chose on the knees. You know, my daughter strangles him once. Then I go. I pull and pull him on top, pull him in, guard. I'm just any. I just. I go, you're gonna make any more short jokes, Cameron? No, you know, but anyway, I just love Jiu Jitsu, man. Shout out to my Maria. But I'm glad I. My first instinct was attack the old man. I'm like, you fat? I'm sitting there giving you my toilet. It's the first question. Question. You get away with that. I know you for 30 years, John. That little, you know Joe who's not.

[Matt Serra]

Right as you think about like the industry of like trying to keep bodies together. What industry, what sport provides more patience than Jiu Jitsu? Like everybody, you know, like if you think about it, when you get to a, a certain point and you would train it for a certain amount of time, you're gonna get banged up up. Like what sport benefits more from like guys in their 40s and 50s, like peptides? Oh yeah, for sure. Jiu Jitsu brings a lot of patience because everybody's hurt. Yeah, Everybody's hurt. Regular 40 year old dudes aren't hurt all the time. You know what I mean? They usually work, they go into an office. They don't rarely get knee injuries are rare.

[Joe Rogan]

I'll tell you 40 year old Jiu.

[Matt Serra]

Jitsu guys, everybody, everybody's knees are up.

[Joe Rogan]

Everybody's up.

[Matt Serra]

Everybody's.

[Joe Rogan]

They got a, everybody got a hurt shoulder. Everybody else, everybody's got a bad pickleball. I do a 40 night. I do a 40 and overnight class every Wednesday I teach it. Oh me and then I just to feel like Gordon Ryan. I jump on the old men, I have fun with them, but dude, they love it. Sometimes when it's less than 20, I'll do like my old school Jiu jitsu gang fight. Everybody buddy. I pick teams. I put this guy over there. I get it kind of even. They all start on their knees. You remember this? We used to do it from the feet back in henzos. Everybody's breaking their backs, jumping on backs. But it's nuts when one team, you can no, no lower body submissions. Could be 2 on 1, 3 on 1. It stops when one team submits the whole other team. So we got these old men in there like they're jumping on back, dude, they're upstairs in the locker room. It reminds me of the Twilight own movie when they play kick the can. They're like little kids up there like talking about they have such a good time practicing murdering each other.

[Dean Thomas]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

Isn't that funny? Like making it novel like that. Making it like a team thing. Like oh, it's fun. Especially if you trust each other. If you're, you know, training partners.

[Joe Rogan]

The biggest thing out of an academy is the atmosphere as you know. So I make sure I pluck guys out on a. Every month somebody comes in, I don't like get. Keep you a couple hundred dollars. Get the out of here.

[Matt Serra]

It's all top down down. It all comes down from the, the attitude of the people that are running the place. Always. Always.

[Joe Rogan]

Joe, do you ever show up at a random jiu jitsu school and just pop in?

[Matt Serra]

No, you can't do that. I haven't rolled at all in a year.

[Joe Rogan]

No kidding.

[Matt Serra]

No, I've had a reoccurring knee issue and a reoccurring lower back issue that I'm trying to get right before I do anything stupid again. You know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

Shout out to Bio accelerator.

[Matt Serra]

That place is great.

[Joe Rogan]

They're so great.

[Matt Serra]

A lot of positive results from that place. I know a lot of people went down the.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm able to throw my right hand again, which I. I used to wave like this, and now I'm. I'm just. I'm so happy I'm able to do it again.

[Matt Serra]

Bring it back to the Kamaru fight with Chamayev. Kamaru's been down there, too.

[Joe Rogan]

I was. I was down a couple years ago.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, it's like, it's. A lot of UFC guys go down there.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, 100%.

[Matt Serra]

That CPI in Tijuana is a closer, closer track. That place is really good. And the UFC is affiliated with them now.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, very interesting. They're really good. I know a lot of. Of people. Eddie Bravo's been down there multiple times, but I know a lot of UFC fighters that have been down there.

[Joe Rogan]

Man, I. I've been to the in again. Columbia. What is it, Medellin? Am I saying I always that up?

[Matt Serra]

But for.

[Joe Rogan]

Hey, the food down there was delicious.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Went out there with my Jedi Abe, and we. He took me into town. The food. I was eating the bread. I was. And I'm just again, South America knows how to do, you know that pro, mate.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So good. Yeah, I went down there. Dan Severn was down there. He was in a wheelchair getting rolled around. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, no. Yeah, he's in a wheelchair.

[Joe Rogan]

No, it's just for that trip because he was getting. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, oh, oh, breaker. Oh, oh, yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

You got my. At home. My Muay Thai coach at home, Vince Mosky Thai program. He goes, yeah, tell Rogan thanks. I tried them zins and now I'm addicted to them.

[Matt Serra]

You know, I took my whole vacation off of them. And like I said, I was like, wondering what it was going to feel like. I was like, oh, my word. No, nothing. It's fine. There's nothing. I just think it's. I think it might be a biological thing. You know, some people, cigarettes just get them, and they just want to smoke cigarettes every day. And some people, nicotine gets them. I Think some people could just stop taking nicotine? And they seem to be all right. And thankfully I seem to be one one of them.

[Joe Rogan]

It helps me a couple of those with my espresso and a seltzer in the morning. Oh, Jesus.

[Matt Serra]

You know, it's terrible.

[Joe Rogan]

So great.

[Matt Serra]

It's terrible for playing pool if you take too many of them. You like, you're shaky. You don't have like a good connection between your movement. You feel, you feel like weird when you're shooting. Like you don't notice it when you're talking because it's, it is a stimulant. So it's like stimulating your brain. It actually like helps brain function function. Nicotine itself is a nootropic. It's like it's a nutrient that helps brain function. Like it'll help you pass tests.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it helps my ADD a little.

[Matt Serra]

It probably does, yeah. Terrible for pool though.

[Joe Rogan]

But I'm still on that alpha brain, so that's all the.

[Matt Serra]

That's legit. We got gummies now too, man. Oh, do you? Gummies? Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

Nice.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, I'll take some too.

[Matt Serra]

I gotta. I'll give you guys open jar of them. We'll get out of here.

[Joe Rogan]

How many do you think take?

[Matt Serra]

I take three.

[Dean Thomas]

Oh, back on the, on the Du Plessis fight there, like, I mean, we were talking last night. We both think that DDP can pull this out and win it.

[Matt Serra]

Like my mind definitely win it.

[Dean Thomas]

My mindset. And look, we all know Kamsat's a savage.

[Matt Serra]

He can win it too. But yeah, I could see, I could see this fight.

[Dean Thomas]

But if I, you know, if we look at it, I mean, his two toughest opponents, save for Whitaker, who went in there with a, a broken face and got it broke the rest of the way, right. The, you know, Gilbert 170. And maybe Gilbert won that one. Kamaru 170 took it on very short notice. Almost won that one. If it goes longer, probably he does win.

[Matt Serra]

That was middleweight.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, well, yeah, but he's 170 pounder. Like if he's making 70 all the time and going to 85. Now you're fighting a dude that walks at 230, so he's not going to have a big strength advantage over him. Yeah, he's going to be the better wrestler, you know, but I just think, I just think that Dricus is going to be able to weather the storm and then come out the other side and it's going to be a problem. And if Kamzat comes in, people are talking about him fighting at a slower pace. Well, that's not his style. And if he fights at a slower pace, I think that plays in. Into Drus's hands because it will allow.

[Joe Rogan]

He's going to make move forward and.

[Dean Thomas]

Pressure him into things.

[Matt Serra]

So it's going to be interesting to see if it gets into deep water. That's what's going to be interesting because I know he started training with Kalavita, so for his conditioning, yeah, he went to Sam Calavita, who trained TJ Dillashaw. He works with Aaron Pico. Arman Sarukian's doing it with him too. And that guy is a legend, man.

[Dean Thomas]

Kita is a no 100%.

[Matt Serra]

He's a real.

[Dean Thomas]

I believe with cardio too. Part of it is your is. Is your mental. Mental, your mindset. Like with pushing through the tired and you know, we were talking a little last night and. And you know, Khamzat's a bad motherfucker. I don't know about his mind yet.

[Matt Serra]

Because this is what I was getting at.

[Dean Thomas]

Pulls out of a bunch of fights.

[Matt Serra]

You know, Armand Tsarukian, who also just pulled out of a fight. Right, But Armand, But Armand said the problem was Khamzat overtrained for every fight and he would always come into fights worn out, out. And that was the difference between work with Kavita, that they're monitoring his actual recovery. They're. They're making sure they're doing everything scientifically. Calvita, I think his background is in cycling, like it was in, you know, endurance sports.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm familiar. I'm familiar with him. I know who he's. I know he was TJ's guy.

[Matt Serra]

Nobody knows more about cardio than cyclers because it's all cardio, the whole thing. Yeah, it's all cardio.

[Dean Thomas]

So they know cardio and epo.

[Matt Serra]

They. Yeah, they know that too well. They know how to recover and they know like where. What's your threshold? Like where you should be for sure. So he's using real science doing. He's like, this is the first time he's ever been through a camp like this where he's coming in fresh, where he's not over trained.

[Dean Thomas]

Well, we're gonna see. We're gonna see. And my question is too, if he gets in a bad spot, right. Is he going to push through it? Will the bully crumble?

[Matt Serra]

You know, when getting crumble with Gilbert.

[Joe Rogan]

It.

[Dean Thomas]

Got sat down by Gilbert too, though.

[Joe Rogan]

But Drake has even said in that fight how it started strong. There's a Certain amount. He was counting how many minutes he was just standing in front of him. He said that with both, that both those fights, his fight with Gilbert and Kamaru Usman, he had the exact amount of time. He goes for three minutes and whatever seconds. He was just standing in front of him. He was saying that for both guys.

[Matt Serra]

Kamaru was coming on strong in that third round. I know that was a five round fight. I bet the betting would shift for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh yeah.

[Matt Serra]

100.

[Joe Rogan]

He started coming on at the end of the second.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Started to.

[Matt Serra]

Yes.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah. Usman.

[Matt Serra]

I thought, yeah. I mean but it is impressive the way that can shoot from halfway across the octagon.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah. No one he's like his wrestling too. Like I don't know. Do you know Pat Downey?

[Matt Serra]

Yes.

[Dean Thomas]

All right. Well he's. I've known him since he's a little kid and he was in Kamzat's camp. Camp and said like his, he said his wrestling. He goes wrestling is like real good. He said he's got top notch wrestling like he talked about. He said we probably both did better with each other than you would think. Like he did better with wrestling and I did better with the jiu jitsu. He said, but he said like he said the guy's a beast. Said he's strong. Said he's. And he said he's a high level wrestler.

[Matt Serra]

Shop was down there watching him train and you know, they, they asked Shop, they asked Shop to spar with him. He's like you, he's like, I'm 40 something years old. I'm not no know I'm done. I'm not doing this anymore. And he said Hamza was just lighting people up. He said he looks really good.

[Dean Thomas]

Nice.

[Matt Serra]

The thing about Hamza should be a good one. All These guys were 170s, right? You, you're right about that. But with 170 comes speed, right. And Hamza, speed is a, is a factor. It's a big factor with his hand speed. He's, you know, people forget because like what he did to Kevin Holland the way he could rag doll guys in the ground. But what he did to Gerald Merchant's pretty spooky.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, that's a really good punch.

[Joe Rogan]

Really good P punch.

[Matt Serra]

Technical and sharp straight down.

[Dean Thomas]

The very well rounded guy.

[Matt Serra]

He's good standing up, man. He's good standing up. And that's where it's going to be weird that that's where I want to see because Duplis makes everybody look stupid.

[Joe Rogan]

He.

[Matt Serra]

He finds a way. Every mistake he must Got a lot of power, but they're not mistakes. For sure. Has a lot of power. But someone did a great breakdown of what he did with Robert Whitaker, where he set up that right hook and the way he was like, recognizing that Whitaker had this certain pattern and, and it's not like it looks weird because he just moves different than everybody else. That's all. Whatever it is, it works.

[Dean Thomas]

It works.

[Matt Serra]

And when he hits you, it's like getting hit by a car.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It doesn't have to be that pretty. That's what I'm saying, right. He's got to have power to make guys so nervous about getting hit by him.

[Matt Serra]

Bro, that cat is so big. He looks like a heavyweight when you're next to him. Like, how are you a middleweight? How are you 1 8, 85 ever?

[Joe Rogan]

The thing that I, that that comes, that I keep thinking about is like, when's the last time he actually though, fought a guy with Khamzat style? I mean, who's ever, who, who's trying to shoot on him? Besides, maybe there was a Derek Brunson or something. But yeah, when's the last time he fought a guy that's just gonna be.

[Matt Serra]

No one has Hamzat style in the ufc.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, what I like, but even a.

[Dean Thomas]

Grappler street wrestler like what DDP said, he, he said, look, I'm fully prepared. I'm gonna get taken down. Like, he's not in there saying my wrestling, I'm stuffing them. He said, I'm gonna get taken down, but I'm gonna weather the storm and I'm gonna be able to get back.

[Matt Serra]

Up and we're gonna strong warm up in a rubber suit. If you don't want to cheat, you could, you could bend the rules because it's not cheating.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, when he gets on top of somebody, man, you definitely don't see guys getting them off of you. So.

[Matt Serra]

Well, when you got a guy who's got, I mean, that actually might not be a bad idea. Give them those tracksuit things to get warm up with. It might not be a bad idea because you totally can do that. Like, no one could stop you from doing that.

[Joe Rogan]

Whitaker was defending, okay, when he was down there. Well, I mean, everybody remembers his teeth getting shattered, but before that, yeah, he.

[Matt Serra]

Wasn'T likely he would have survived. Cuz Kamaru survived it too, right? It's possible to survive. Unless he just like what he did to Kevin Holland was kind of crazy. He just went one to the other.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, here's the thing with him. Just crushed him Go, Gilbert. His guard kept him out of it.

[Matt Serra]

Yep, yep.

[Joe Rogan]

You got to have a decent guard because he don't like it. When Gilbert started moving his hips, he said, nah, I'm out of here. Gilbert's actually really world class.

[Matt Serra]

World class? Yeah. Gilbert's dangerous as everywhere. You know, it was interesting watching him roll with Rockhold because I know that, you know, it's not like Rockhold was in camp and prepared for this. And this is Rockhold at its best. I don't even know how much he had been training, but Hamza just handled him, man. Just handled him. And we know how good Rockhold is.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, very good, bro. Listen, what's so exciting about it is there's a chance he could just take him down and do what he did to everybody else. There is that chance, definitely, because he's so good on the floor and he's. He comes out so aggressive, but that's the. If he survives it, you know.

[Matt Serra]

Does he have the confidence to go for it and possibly empty the gas tank and get the finish? And if he doesn't, how is he.

[Joe Rogan]

He has no other way. I don't think he. I think down and smash. That's what he wants. That's what he's. He makes no, you know.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You can't adjust disguising it.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. This whole world championship fight, you got to just hit the gas.

[Dean Thomas]

Instinct's gonna kick in. And he is a sprinter, you know what I mean?

[Matt Serra]

But that's the question is, can he sprint for five rounds? Because we know no DDP can right him and strong Strickland, they were ready to have heart attacks at the end of that fight. They were ready to have heart attacks. It's probably like the most elevated heart level we've ever seen in a world championship fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Getting his nose busted like that.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah. Fighting with staff. He had staff. Staff through the second fight. That's why he was listless. Yeah, he was on antibiotics and everything. He's all up. Yeah. It's terrible, man. That happens all the time. Meanwhile, while that happened with Marab, he.

[Joe Rogan]

Different, man, Different.

[Matt Serra]

On antibiotics. He's out working everybody. Like, that's crazy. That was the.

[Joe Rogan]

The.

[Matt Serra]

That was the. Which fight was that?

[Joe Rogan]

With the. With the staff?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Was it the Umar fight? I think it was the Umar fight, which was crazy, cuz that was paste.

[Joe Rogan]

Paste.

[Matt Serra]

That melted Umar and he's doing it while he's.

[Dean Thomas]

His back was hurt too, for that, wasn't it?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. There was times he wasn't sleeping through the night. He couldn't different. I saw John Wood the other day. They think they're just going to run through Cory.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, I don't know.

[Dean Thomas]

Well, I don't know about running through him here.

[Matt Serra]

You got to be real careful with hubris. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

For sure's not believe Marab thinking like that.

[Joe Rogan]

That's not saying John Wood said that. Well, he.

[Matt Serra]

I mean, Barab could have had leg amputated. That's Barab they could have taken.

[Dean Thomas]

I only need one leg.

[Matt Serra]

He said. Oh, he was just taping it up and going back to practice. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Someone close to me, Rob told me that regular people would have probably had their leg amputated if they had to deal with the staph infection that he had on his leg.

[Dean Thomas]

Jesus.

[Matt Serra]

He was just like taping it up and going. I don't believe that. Whoever told you that. That's not true. They would put antibiotics on that. That's not true. They don't just randomly amputate people's legs. I hope, I hope. It said he had broken his hand early in the fight. Oh, numerkamenov did. He said he broke my back in training camp. But some days I couldn't get up from the bed. I just laid down. I don't have a training camp camp. I don't have a Khabib number go bad off to help me train. Some days at the PI was closed. It was Christmas, it was New Year's and weekends. And it happened a couple of times. Umar was there and the security goes, I'm sorry, we can't let you go in. Yeah, Marab's different.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Merab's built different, man.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, there's also. There's something about dudes that were. That were from that part of the world that is a war torn part of the world. And it makes a different kind of man.

[Joe Rogan]

Each of the American dream, man. I just had him on my pod and we were talking for over an hour about his whole journey and dude, he came over, he did not to see him. Like I couldn't even communicate with him. Like I. I could because I have a way. But he didn't speak any English. When I see him doing the skits now the chicken banana. He's funny as.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, I think so.

[Joe Rogan]

He's funny. He's. He's just. He goes back and now he goes back to his. To Georgia. Just as they have the chariots next to him, there's people trying to jump on the bus. It makes me so happy, man, because you've seen his whole journey. When he first came to New York he was. Got linked up with and these guys were morons and thank God he ran into Longo at the heads of racy Academy and, and then, and then he found his way to Longo's and then.

[Matt Serra]

That'S a problem, right? If you don't know where to go and you wind up at a real bad camp and then they, they claim you forever.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh man. He had him doing the gold.

[Matt Serra]

He had him doing just like a bad wife.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. This guy was a. That's what I always say. It's like a bad marriage.

[Matt Serra]

Just like a bad marriage. Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But he found his way. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, you, you guys are so good. You and Longo without a doubt need a reality show. Some sort of reality show with you two guys coaching people and then going to dinner. It would be a great show. I love it when you guys, I really love it when you guys were, you know, in the, in the corners when you get mic'd up up the best.

[Joe Rogan]

We have a good time.

[Matt Serra]

It's great the two of you guys together. It's a fun team.

[Joe Rogan]

Everybody says that. Everybody want to see a show.

[Dean Thomas]

I told him last night when he's on your podcast, he's the best.

[Joe Rogan]

I have my. You know what's so cool now man, I have my 16 year old over there. He's holding for us. Just makes me sad. That gets me emotional.

[Matt Serra]

Oh my God, that's awesome.

[Joe Rogan]

It's so cool man. You know he's, he's 67. He's still going, man. Longo, he's the best.

[Dean Thomas]

He's such a. Ray's awesome.

[Matt Serra]

But you two in the corner are so uniquely fun. It's so fun to watch. Like if I was a television producer I'm like that is a no brainer.

[Joe Rogan]

We, we took our guy down to the flag pole.

[Matt Serra]

Maybe Paramount plus listen to this new merger, whatever was happening content here, new deal, exciting.

[Joe Rogan]

I guess.

[Matt Serra]

You and Ray Lungo, Paramount plus going to pizza places, talking.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm not against it.

[Matt Serra]

Going to the fights. Y going to the fights. Like talking about your fight. See, it's like a built in show. You have fighters that you train in you. You talk about how he's doing, talk about how he came to you at this. You two guys just talk about the world.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Out there. Somebody get a listen.

[Matt Serra]

Keeps dinging. Is that me?

[Joe Rogan]

God, it's not me, is it?

[Matt Serra]

It might be me.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think it's me.

[Dean Thomas]

Pretty sure I've airplaned it I think it's me.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, it's. It's totally a built in show. Like you can't miss.

[Joe Rogan]

Ah, we have a good time time.

[Matt Serra]

You know what I mean? Like you should do it.

[Joe Rogan]

But you know, I.

[Matt Serra]

If you have the time.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. All I'm doing is you can find me at my school or my podcast Matt Sarah channel on YouTube. I'm having fun with that. So what. What guys. And then. Dude, I'm having. Dude, I do movie reactions. You know what I do with that? I watch a movie and they react in real time. Dude, I'm just talking, watching a movie.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, that's great.

[Joe Rogan]

I play my VR, which is fucking fun. And then I have people in like I had marab and I. Oh, I had Keith Jardine in. In the other day. Keith Jardine, man. Let's plug his new movie. What the. Kill Me again. Kill me again. Kill me again. Me and my wife went to Tribeca for the. And I saw Tate. Tate's in it. Your buddy Tate Fletcher. What a sweetheart.

[Matt Serra]

He's the best.

[Joe Rogan]

He's such a nice guy. Just want a guy.

[Matt Serra]

You want to have a big huggable person.

[Joe Rogan]

Huggable bear. And it's. It's almost this movie. Kill Me Again. Again. He written and directed it. Keith Jardine. And it's basically Groundhog Day. But a serial killer.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, gee.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, it's. It's really good. It was. I mean, listen, I. I wouldn't even bring it up if I thought it was, to be honest. It was a fun movie. You can get it on Amazon.

[Matt Serra]

I believe you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Is it on Amazon prime now? It's on Amazon prime. It came out August 8th and. And I'm proud of him. And what a sweetheart that guy is.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, Jardine's awesome.

[Joe Rogan]

He was in a great movie called Shot Caller.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, that was a good movie.

[Joe Rogan]

Jamie Landis, he gets in, you know, he's driving drunk, but with his couple. He's like a yuppie with a. Another couple. He, you know, something happens.

[Matt Serra]

The other.

[Joe Rogan]

The. The guy gets killed in the backseat, goes to jail. Kind of like, you know, white collared. Next thing you know, he's got a show. He's not a. And now he's a hardened shanking people. John Bernathal's in there. Yeah, you know, like it. Shot call.

[Matt Serra]

I remember that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, this was a good movie. And Keith, John, he KE is in this.

[Matt Serra]

Did. Was Keith a bounty hunter?

[Joe Rogan]

He. No, he was in his cult.

[Matt Serra]

But was he an actual bounty hunter.

[Joe Rogan]

In like real life?

[Matt Serra]

In his life man, he didn't bring.

[Joe Rogan]

That up on the show. Unless he did, I would have remembered.

[Matt Serra]

See, if that's true, he was.

[Joe Rogan]

I went over his whole.

[Matt Serra]

I hope I'm not imagining he was.

[Joe Rogan]

More of a grappler than he was even a striker.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, it was a boundary. Bounty hunter.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a bounty.

[Matt Serra]

Jardine worked as a personal trainer, firefighter, football coach. Minor and bounty hunter. Minor and bounty hunter. That's two of the hardest human beings that have ever lived. Connected.

[Joe Rogan]

It's so funny. He's very soft spoken, though. He's very, like, nice.

[Matt Serra]

It's just like, he's a great guy.

[Joe Rogan]

He looks like a.

[Matt Serra]

Had some awesome fights.

[Joe Rogan]

I asked him if he ever. Because I said, you know, sometimes I'm at a UFC thing and they're going, joe, can I have a picture? The wrong ball guy. I asked him.

[Matt Serra]

I asked him.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't ask me about Dave. They think I'm dating. You know, I asked. I go, look, I go, you got to answer this for me because have you ever been mistaken for the Techno Viking? Do you know who that.

[Dean Thomas]

He does look like him. He does look like.

[Joe Rogan]

He looks exactly like him. The Techno Viking is a guy.

[Matt Serra]

Jamie pointed out that that might have been staged.

[Dean Thomas]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know that.

[Matt Serra]

Look, Jamie. Jamie ruins it for me. The Techno Viking, Jamie does not like the wool being pulled over his eyes. So he thinks that everything is staged.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know. Everybody's there he is.

[Matt Serra]

Keith Jardine came in. He kicks the guy.

[Joe Rogan]

He looks just like Keith Jardine.

[Matt Serra]

Hey, it's already questionable. That's being filmed, and this guy's like, center stage.

[Dean Thomas]

You do have a point there.

[Matt Serra]

You got a point.

[Joe Rogan]

Give this guy a bottle of water.

[Matt Serra]

Let's go.

[Joe Rogan]

Let's go.

[Matt Serra]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Dude, if I was still clubbing this, how I. Yeah. 100.

[Dean Thomas]

Look at him, boy, he's all mollied up. He's ready to go.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah, mollied. He's probably got.

[Joe Rogan]

That guy's a boss.

[Matt Serra]

He's probably got one of them cruising doses in his system, right?

[Dean Thomas]

He's got his minions behind him.

[Matt Serra]

Probably legit Viking jeans, too, man. At least some of them looks like it. Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

Got his Thor's hammer around his neck.

[Matt Serra]

Well, he looks like the 21st century version of it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

You know what? What?

[Joe Rogan]

Come on, man.

[Matt Serra]

Look at the original Vikings. Probably looked like those strong men dudes you see coming out of Iceland. That's what showed up. Can you imagine that?

[Dean Thomas]

A bunch of half Thor Bjornson showed up, bro.

[Matt Serra]

Who's that guy, that Viking dude that fights in welterweight, it just fought Chaos Williams. Oh.

[Dean Thomas]

Oh, the one looks like a caveman.

[Joe Rogan]

And he brought up, he brought up.

[Dean Thomas]

I'm trying to think he got famous for being ugly.

[Matt Serra]

Is it Andreas? What is his name? Yeah, yeah, he looks just like Keith Jardine. That's crazy. Crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

It is. Andreas.

[Matt Serra]

Jamie, would you, could you go to Chaos Williams Wikipedia, look up his MMA career? Cuz K, Chaos is good, man.

[Joe Rogan]

He hard, he's hard.

[Matt Serra]

Dangerous guy.

[Joe Rogan]

And he got worn the out by this.

[Matt Serra]

This is another one of those dudes, what me and DC have been talking about. This like extreme physicality is a tool, you know. And Coleman used to say this. Coleman used to say that strength is a skill, skill. And I was like, it kind of is a skill. Andreas Gustafson. Yeah, this guy's terrifying.

[Dean Thomas]

Just a different dude.

[Matt Serra]

And which you should see go to Andreas Gustafson workout, just Google workout. And this dude is hardcore power lifter. Like when you see some of the, he's doing the amount of strength that this guy has, you're like, oh Jesus, Jesus. Like there's guys that are not that big, right? Like, you know, see that janitor who pulls pranks on Instagram who walks up to these, these big medias and lifts up the stuff. He's not that big though. But these super strong dudes who practice powerlifting, you can be incredibly strong and not look like a bodybuilder. That's this guy. He's a 185.

[Joe Rogan]

No, he's a 7.

[Matt Serra]

No, excuse me. 170. 170. Oh man, but this is so strong, man. When he gets a hold of guys, he's just ragdolling people, you know. Chaos has been very consistent in his career with good takedown defense. He knows how to fight guys off. Dangerous striker and he couldn't do to this guy. It was like he was all over him, ass whooping. Like a real one sided ass whooping. That I didn't expect, expect. I was like, that is I, I thought it'd be a good fight and it was just a mauling, man.

[Joe Rogan]

I thought Chaos was going to clip him.

[Matt Serra]

You can easily have the power that Chaos has. He puts guys out with one shot, but this dude just tucks his chin down and wades, bombs at you until he gets a grip on you and then just starts throwing you around.

[Joe Rogan]

170, he's.

[Matt Serra]

Well, he's 170.

[Joe Rogan]

I'll tell you who's the dark horse in that division.

[Dean Thomas]

It's pretty impressive.

[Joe Rogan]

Sean Brady.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, Sha Brady think he's the dark horse.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

After that Leon Edwards fight, people aren't.

[Joe Rogan]

Talking about him enough though. That's what I'm saying, bro.

[Matt Serra]

That Leon Edwards fight was crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

I'll be with them tomorrow. Yeah, tomorrow.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Dude, he's looking great, Sean. I love his monster.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, he's a monster.

[Joe Rogan]

It's so funny. I had him on and he's like, you know, people always talking about me being short for welterweight. I'm 5 9. It's not like I'm 56 or I'm like, come on man. It's funny.

[Matt Serra]

But that turtle muscle on his back, he's trying to get a crush your head muscle.

[Joe Rogan]

He's trying to get that Ian Gary fight. I love it.

[Matt Serra]

Is that what he's looking for right now? Well, he'll fight anybody too.

[Joe Rogan]

It's just.

[Matt Serra]

Well, you know, I would love to see him fight for the title. I mean I think that's a reasonable fight. Like Jack Della, like who's next after If Jack Della in Islam fight. Which seems to be exactly what's going to happen happen. Who's next after that? Like who's. Who's in number one position right now?

[Joe Rogan]

I think Ian Gary has to be up there. It's either it's. It's Sean or Balow.

[Matt Serra]

Well, right. Ian Gary has one loss, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. He just comes not com shop.

[Matt Serra]

Right. Real close fight. But that one loss set him back a little bit. So Bal's number one. But you know, I bet they're going to want Bilal to fight somebody else. They, they seem to have a hard on for Bilal.

[Joe Rogan]

You know.

[Matt Serra]

The numbers don't mean that's the fight that gets made, right? Not always.

[Joe Rogan]

I think Sean Brady's only the only problem. The only one loss he has is from Bilal. Right.

[Matt Serra]

Can you put that back up Jamie so I can see who else is in there?

[Joe Rogan]

No, man.

[Matt Serra]

So it's like if you look at that division, you know that division has gone through so many different changes is. So you got Shavkot who just had some kind of surgery. That's undisclosed. Right. We don't know what injury he's recovered from, but he had like a pretty significant injury apparently. And then you got Leon Kamaru.

[Joe Rogan]

Michael Morales is the real dark horse of that division.

[Matt Serra]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

He Gilbert Burns?

[Matt Serra]

Oh, he him up. Yeah. That looked like Gilbert just didn't belong.

[Dean Thomas]

Sure did.

[Matt Serra]

And that's weird to see. Right.

[Dean Thomas]

And I don't know. It's Gilbert fan.

[Matt Serra]

A lot of Miles. Yeah, a lot of fights.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I like to see Sean Brady get his shot. That's what we working on. Dean Thomas, how he must be strong. He's strong as he's. Yeah, he wears all of us. I. Dude, I like his positional. His. His Jiu Jitsu is very, very good for fighting. I'll tell you, nowadays, I can't even watch some Jiu Jitsu matches. I watch. It's just a lot of scissoring.

[Matt Serra]

And I'll tell you what, man, I was blown away by Kamaru versus one Joaquin Buckley. I was blowing.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah, yeah, he looked great. He looked good.

[Matt Serra]

He looked like Kamaru. He looked like Champion. He looked. He looked like. Like if Wake was challenging Kamaru for the title. That's the Kamaru that you would expect to see. That's what he looked like.

[Joe Rogan]

He showed good iq, but also intelligent.

[Matt Serra]

Fight, the ability to move right like you didn't seem hampered by his knees. All the things that people talk.

[Joe Rogan]

And that's what we thought it was going to see. We thought it was just an old ass man with them bad, bad knees.

[Matt Serra]

Didn't look bad at all. No. And I think, you know, it's a lot of. It is mental strength of. Sure. But it's also like he hasn't really taken a lot of damage other than the big high kick from Leon. And, you know, if you go and you watch his fights is he had a pretty good war with Colby before he won. I mean, they. They exchanged a lot of blows. You know, Gilbert dropped him. Remember that?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

But overall, not a lot of damage in his career. Mostly he's been the dominant, you know, so Even though he's 37, I think.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he's all right.

[Dean Thomas]

I thought it was good to see him go back to his wrestling roots a little bit. A lot of times the wrestlers get good with their hands, and all of a sudden they forget about what got him to the show. And he just straight manhandled.

[Matt Serra]

He did. But he also looked good on the feet everywhere.

[Joe Rogan]

Disciplined. Just good straight punches.

[Dean Thomas]

Sean Brady looked great in his last fight with his hands, too, too 100%.

[Matt Serra]

And to do that to Leon, well, you know, Leon knows he can't lose again. He, you know, lost the title and he wants to come back and. And get it back. And now all of a sudden you got this turtle shell in front of you.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

Just seems insanely strong.

[Joe Rogan]

How's Colby still in these rankings?

[Dean Thomas]

I was thinking the same thing when I saw it.

[Joe Rogan]

Kind of crazy.

[Matt Serra]

I wonder how much of that would Be like, because he's still super value people. Like, if you're.

[Dean Thomas]

Gotta be.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Because if you're a guy, like, why kick him out? If you're a guy like Shavkat and they offer you Colby, you know, in the main event of a fight night or something like that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Like that's a great fight for both guys. They'll probably make way more money.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

So how does that work with Paramount now?

[Dean Thomas]

That's what I don't know.

[Matt Serra]

Here's the question.

[Dean Thomas]

I thought you'd have the insights.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, man. I don't, I don't talk to Dana about business.

[Dean Thomas]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

You know.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I heard they're raising the.

[Matt Serra]

I'm more of a. I'm almost a socialist when I, it comes to that. I would be the worst. They would fire me for sure. I would change the pay structure immediately, you know, But I wonder if you're. There's no pay per view. Yeah. You want to mint, like, that's the Mind Mints. That's Neurogum, the Neuro Mints.

[Dean Thomas]

I have the, I have the gum.

[Joe Rogan]

I need it for my brain.

[Matt Serra]

Give me some of that one left in there.

[Joe Rogan]

Nice.

[Matt Serra]

Let's take the last one.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, thank you.

[Matt Serra]

It looks dirty on the outside.

[Joe Rogan]

No, I'm good. I had, I had a gummy.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah. I'm always giving myself mine mints and all. And I'm still stupid. What were we just talking about the pay structure. Oh, yeah. So. So they used to get the money from pay per view, Right. So if you're a guy like Conor McGregor that's going to get 2 million pay per views, like you get a percentage of that and you know you're set for life, right? You, you get one big one like that and.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa, how does that work now?

[Matt Serra]

So how does that work now? How does it work now? If it's for free, there's no more pay per view.

[Joe Rogan]

He did say. I did hear him saying. He's up in the. The fight night. Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

The bonuses. I did see that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

The low hanging fruit. That's easiest to answer. Bonuses are obviously going up. That's great. That'll be big. And forget about the tide rising with all the other fighters. Just the number the bonuses bring to a fighter, it's millions of dollars. Okay, well that's great. Okay, so then there's a bonus structure. Like, like if that many people watch your thing, you get millions of dollars. That's what he said.

[Dean Thomas]

That would be cool.

[Matt Serra]

That sounds great. That's. Paramount's got a ton of Loot. And this is a great move for them.

[Joe Rogan]

Good content, too.

[Matt Serra]

People are gonna sign up for Paramount. Plus if you get free ufcs forever. That's great. And. And South Park.

[Dean Thomas]

Right?

[Matt Serra]

And south park and a bunch of other shows too. There's a shitload of shows. All of Taylor Sheridan shows are all Paramount shows.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, actually.

[Joe Rogan]

But did anybody see this coming? No one saw this coming.

[Dean Thomas]

Just no one saw Yellowstone, bro.

[Matt Serra]

I'm tight with Dana and I talked to him about. We were talking about the problems with this and the problems with that, but I need to ask him this weekend in Chicago if it's true that the Netflix people wanted to stop the fights in the apex. They didn't want any fights in the apex. They wanted fights with like, big crowds. Yeah, like they were. They wanted to be big. We wanted to be big, big, big.

[Joe Rogan]

Like all the fights. Big, big, big. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

One of the best heavyweight fights of all time, in terms of, like, the results, was Francis Ngannou versus Stipe Miocic with no crowd at all in the apex, in the small ring. Yeah, it was like one of the best experience. Like you, you want to watch like a guy in his prime who's terrified, who's figured it all out, versus a guy who's got. He's a legend, he's a champion, but he's got a lot of miles on him and there's a lot of wars and you see it with no one there. You hear in the huff and huff of each breath, death. Every time Francis hits him.

[Dean Thomas]

You.

[Matt Serra]

You feel that thud in your. Your cells.

[Joe Rogan]

Hey, you don't gotta sell me, man. I love watching fights at the apex. Oh, I love it.

[Matt Serra]

It's my favorite.

[Joe Rogan]

Me too.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, I mean, I really believe that the smaller cage just forces more action. I was wondering if they would downsize the arena cage because of the, you know, the quality of the fights that was in the smaller cage.

[Matt Serra]

The problem with that is like. Like when you got a guy that is just very footwork based and has developed his style, you're him, that's. But he's developed his style based on his ability to move around a full size cage. The Netflix thing is from a troll account, I think. Oh, troll did it. I think so. Oh, that's good. Well, who knows why they decided to not do it? But, man, whoever gets the UFC and does the no pay per View model, you just gained millions of subscribers instantaneously. But I'm also like, do you think.

[Dean Thomas]

It'Ll be better for the casuals now that everybody can 100%.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, for sure.

[Matt Serra]

Cuz everybody's going to get every pay per view now for free. You're going to be scrolling through the channels like, oh, let's see what's fighting.

[Dean Thomas]

Wonder how much money I'll save a year now. You know, save me 80amonth or two.

[Matt Serra]

You know, you tune it in, you watch one Alex Pereira high kick knockout, you're like, oh, then you're hooked. And then, then the next time it's on, you're like, oh, the UFC's on. And then, boom, you've got more fans. I mean, it's the most exciting to the. This average spectator because you don't have to know anything. You have to know to watch guys just go to war.

[Joe Rogan]

True. I'm just surprised that ESPN didn't step up. Well, just. Yeah, well, I mean, it's seven point. That's what I'm saying. At 7.7, like, they probably was like, nah, we're good.

[Dean Thomas]

Their app was anyway.

[Matt Serra]

Well, Paramount's giving them a billion dollars a year for seven, seven years. I mean, that's wild. That's a lot of loot.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited about that. Aaron Pico. Oh, yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

This whole card is a very good card.

[Matt Serra]

Leron Murphy's no joke.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know who you got on.

[Dean Thomas]

This might be leaning Murphy's way.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm not sure. I still am.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I think that the UFC jitters is a real thing, man.

[Matt Serra]

It is jitters, the real thing. And Murphy is no different joke. He is super solid, super technical everywhere.

[Joe Rogan]

Good footwork.

[Dean Thomas]

And if Aaron wants to be a boxer, this kid is really explosive on his feet.

[Joe Rogan]

He's got the wrestling.

[Matt Serra]

Murphy is.

[Dean Thomas]

He does, but he don't use it enough.

[Matt Serra]

I don't believe Murphy, to me, is very much like Leon Edwards in his prime at 145 for sure. Very similar, very similar. Strong everywhere, super technical, doesn't make any mistakes. He's good, man.

[Dean Thomas]

I think he's a more aggressive version too, too. Leon could kind of cruise at times where I think Murphy's looking to finish it.

[Matt Serra]

He's world championship potential. He's certainly world championship potential.

[Dean Thomas]

He is coming on short notice, too.

[Joe Rogan]

Who is?

[Dean Thomas]

Murphy.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, but he's. But he's a consummate professional.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he's the type of guy that trains.

[Dean Thomas]

They said straight up he's ready. They said three weeks might be too much time because he's ready all the time.

[Matt Serra]

Well, this is the word out of that part, that camp is that that guy's always Training and which is what you want to see from a guy like that who's undefeated and also not getting the shine that a lot of other guys in that div beginning.

[Dean Thomas]

Props to him for taking the fight too.

[Matt Serra]

Just so many fight good guys in that division, you know, and Ilio is such a star that everybody with Volkanovsky in there, Yair and everybody kind of got lost.

[Dean Thomas]

Diego, is it a five rounder? It's the co main event, right? It's a three rounder. That's a three rounder?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

Oh, that could change on the website.

[Matt Serra]

As the co main but I thought it was.

[Dean Thomas]

It's in there.

[Matt Serra]

It is. It is co main but it's.

[Joe Rogan]

But it's still three rounds. I read that today.

[Dean Thomas]

That's cool. Well, that changes things.

[Matt Serra]

It's interesting because Pico is really good, man, but I would have liked to see him against someone, you know, to establish a name for himself.

[Joe Rogan]

I thought he had a really good shot at beating Mosar.

[Matt Serra]

Well, Mosar is crazy because the grappling from Mozar is just off the charts. But you're not dealing with the kind of kicks that you're dealing with. With Murphy. Yeah, with Murphy he's. He's going to chop you up on the outside and if you're heavy on that front leg because you're like boxing like, ooh. A couple of those calf kicks change everything.

[Dean Thomas]

He's got a lot of spinning attacks, lot of everything.

[Matt Serra]

He's a pretty dynamic problem.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought aljo beat only round ended with with moer on top but he was dominating that fight as well.

[Matt Serra]

I thought Al but it was close. But I thought Al was close. Mosfar is very, very, very good. But that's a good fight for Pico because Pico's an elite grappler and he's got real dangerous hands handle real dangerous.

[Joe Rogan]

I thought Pico would have beat him.

[Matt Serra]

It would have been a great fight for him. It would have been an interesting fight for him. This is a different fight. Yeah, this is a different fight and I think a more dangerous fight in a lot of ways. Just because of his style, the footwork. Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's going to be tough for Pico.

[Matt Serra]

He's tough, man. Murphy's tough and again, he's one of those guys that is way better than his public like Persona.

[Joe Rogan]

People don't know about.

[Dean Thomas]

People know about about him.

[Matt Serra]

There's so many guys in that division, man. That division's crazy. Yeah, it's filled with killers. Filled with killers.

[Dean Thomas]

This card's a good one.

[Joe Rogan]

Killers, too. And Diego Lopez.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. John Silva. John Silva, bro, that fight is going to be crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Are you close to that? That's in Guadalajara, Antonio. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

It's in Texas. I might go to that. Yeah. It's that John Silva guy. Looks like a world champion. That's another one. He looks like a world champ. Champion for sure.

[Dean Thomas]

He's a character, too.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. The barking and I like. But, bro, what he did to Bryce Mitchell was just. He sent him down.

[Dean Thomas]

Made yourself lightheaded. Barking out at the. At the Wolf earlier.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I got a little lightheaded.

[Matt Serra]

The fact that he was, like, so relaxed and laughing and like, he's just. He just knew it was a matter of time and then submitted him and put him to sleep.

[Joe Rogan]

What's funny about that is Bryce Mitchell, who just went down in weight, looked great.

[Matt Serra]

So that's the right division for him. That's the right division for him. And, I mean, he's got two choices. Voices, bulk way up and cut down, which is what most these guys are doing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Or go to 135, which. He looked great.

[Joe Rogan]

And that was just discipline for him. Just got to live a better life. Right.

[Matt Serra]

Because he was never, like, real ripped. No. At 45. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

He's eating cornbread on the farm. And, you know, I don't know what he eats. I'm sure he eats healthies. He's. I mean, he's a very good grappler, I'll tell you that. That guy's dangerous. Really, really good jiu jitsu. Really smart. I've seen a lot of his tutorials online. Like. Yeah. Very, very good stuff. But, you know, John Silva is just a different thing, man. There's guys that are just better everywhere.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And I thought he would have gave Ilia a problem.

[Matt Serra]

I think so, too.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Like, if Ilia stayed down and he fought John Silva, I thought that was gonna be a problem for Ilia.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Both have one punch, knockout power. And John Silva is a very good kicker. Yeah, very. It's different. Like, Ilia does not throw a whole lot of kicks, and most of them are to the legs. Right. Ilya is not throwing any head kicks. I'm sure he's can. I mean, he might do that just because we're talking right now.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

But what Ilia does do is he touches you. And that's what Farasa hobby calls the touch of death. He's got that touch of death, man. When he did that to Charles, I was like, I Can't even believe I'm seeing this.

[Joe Rogan]

They folded him.

[Matt Serra]

Folded him.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. The night before, remember, we talked about that. Like, yo, we. I think we were in the back. Was like, yo, this crazy, man. No one. No one should be doing this. And he goes out there and does it.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

It's like Arnold on Pumping Iron when he was. Remember he's telling Lee Fragno at breakfast. Yeah, I called my parents. I won already.

[Matt Serra]

That's a big difference, though. All he has to do is flex in his underwear. Ilia had to go out there and knock out Charles Oliveira with one punch. That was wild, man. That dude has.

[Joe Rogan]

Pow. He looked good on the floor, too. He was.

[Dean Thomas]

He's a good, like, man. I saw. Like I said, I saw footage, him and Marab wrestling. Like, you know, I don't know where they were.

[Matt Serra]

And he.

[Dean Thomas]

I didn't see anybody get caught in. In this video, but, like, Ilya just seemed to be one step ahead.

[Matt Serra]

And.

[Dean Thomas]

And the wrestling exchanges, you know, so he's def. He's at least on Merab's level. And Merab's a savage.

[Matt Serra]

You know what he does? It's really interesting. He. He talked about it on the podcast. He trains each sport individually, and then he puts them all together. So he doesn't train mma, Jiu jitsu. He trains Jiu jitsu with Jiu Jitsu guys. So he trains with elite Jiu jitsu guys, Elite wrestlers. He wrestles with elite wrestlers, boxes with elite boxers, does everything, and then puts it all together himself.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, that is the way to do it.

[Matt Serra]

But if it's like, yeah, right. Interesting how some camps don't do that. You go there and, you know, you have. Everybody's doing mma. He's like, entering into Jiu Jitsu spaces, training there, entering into boxing spaces.

[Dean Thomas]

I think it's because of that.

[Matt Serra]

Like, we all know that the boxing in. Boxing is at a higher level than the boxing in the ufc. There's no way to be as good as David Benavidez. If you're not boxing your whole life and doing it every day and only doing that, there's no way you're not going to be as good as him. So we're. We know that. So. But if you can get more closer to that by training with them and only training with them them, you get Alia Tavoria.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I mean, that's what you get. That's what you get. You get a guy who's boxing with boxers. Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

I think you retain more details.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

You know what I mean?

[Matt Serra]

But man, the discipline. You have to. Have to do all those things with the same kind of intensity and then put it all together.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I mean, he's got a very. Like, he's. And that's the benefit of not having like this big camp. Doing it all, like when you're just by yourself and everybody around you is helping you get to these places and do those things. Things. It's a huge benefit.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. And it's also like, today we know what everybody else can do too. Like, if you're at a certain level, like illy is already, you know your abilities, like, you don't necessarily have to be in a camp where there's a bunch of people.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, you don't need that.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. You know which guys you have to bring in. Concentrate everything on you. That way you're not dealing with all these dudes in the locker room that maybe you got beef with. And Colby's talking about your girlfriend and you're just trying to use the sauna off Colby.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

You know what I mean? It's like there's something to be said for them really small camps.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I think, you know, as we move forward and evolve, man, I think that's the direction it's going. Like all the big guys. Yeah, for sure. Could you imagine Floyd Mayweather in class with everybody else? Okay, you go, I go. That shit ain't happening yet.

[Matt Serra]

With a blue belt Jiu jitsu class. Yeah, exactly. That's a good point. Yeah. I mean. And most of those guys would take their camps outside, you know, like Muhammad Ali did it, Tyson did it. A lot of these guys, they would go somewhere. Go. Go to Big Bear. Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

Shoot. What about Get Away Crawford and Canelo.

[Matt Serra]

What do you think of that?

[Dean Thomas]

Personally, I'm a. I'm a big Crawford fan, so I'm going to lean his way. My only, my only concern is just the S. Like, yeah, it didn't look like Terence's power transferred in the last fight. So now up some more. You know what I mean?

[Matt Serra]

Part of the problem with that is Majimov is really good. Yeah, he's really.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, but I just think Crawford is. It's weird to say against Canelo, but I think he's the better boxer and I think he's the guy who can make the better in fight adjustments if Canelo doesn't kill him.

[Matt Serra]

It's going to be interesting, tell you that.

[Dean Thomas]

What do you think?

[Matt Serra]

I don't know. You know, it's a big jump to go from 54, which was a step up from 47. Right now he's going to 68. That's so much weight.

[Dean Thomas]

A lot of weight.

[Matt Serra]

But Terrence is. I think he's the best switch hitter since Hagler.

[Dean Thomas]

They claim Hagler was my favorite. They. I mean, they claim he's walking around like a buck 90 or something. And you do know he's a wrestler.

[Matt Serra]

Yep.

[Dean Thomas]

So he's got that mentality to him.

[Matt Serra]

He also built up slowly. Like he took his time. Like it's been a long time training for this fight. He was. He came on this podcast more than a year ago and he was talking about that that's the fight he wants.

[Dean Thomas]

Nice.

[Matt Serra]

And that was a long time ago. So he's been trying to get that fight for a long time. So if knowing after he beat Errol Spence that he wasn't ever going to fight at that weight again, and then going up fighting Madramov and then knowing he's got like, at least a year before he fights Alvarez, he got pretty big.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, I like.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I'm leaning, bud.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, he's slick, man. He's slick. He's super intelligent. Like, he sets traps, he does stuff. And then, you know, there's a bunch of great breakdown videos of particularly the Errol Spence fight. Like, him setting traps. It's just. He's a very high level guy. But Canelo is dangerous. He broke Billy Joe Saunders's whole face. Broke his whole face. What he did to Amir Khan. Remember that?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Lordy. And never been down, never been dropped.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah. Canelo's a stud.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Terence him, they rented out the Apex for a while. Was training there, kids running out. Some kids running around all on the mat. I was, yo, get these badass kids out.

[Matt Serra]

He was using the Apex. Why was he using the Apex? I don't know.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know. I'd see every day, 30 people, you know. Yeah. Half of them in suits.

[Matt Serra]

How many, how many times did he use it?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, he was there for a while.

[Matt Serra]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, they were training at the Apex.

[Matt Serra]

Interesting. And this was getting ready for this fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, getting ready for this fight.

[Matt Serra]

Well, that makes sense because the UFC is co promoting.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Dana is a part of it.

[Dean Thomas]

I saw it on their website. I saw like, you know, by the Canelo Crawford fight in my head. I was like, holy shit. And then I was like, oh, yeah, Dana's involved with this.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

That's something you never thought you'd see.

[Matt Serra]

It's interesting. It's because it's Like, I wonder how that's gonna affect combat sports. Like, what's. What's going to happen? I mean, if the UFC model gets old, if they start making fights that people want, like, there's a lot of fights that people just want that just don't get. Like, if David Benavidez and Canelo Alvarez were in the ufc, that would be the fight to make. The UFC would have to figure out, hey, guys. Hey, guys. Like, no, no, no, no. These are the guys. You guys have to fight. Like, this is the fight. Like this. It can't be. I'm gonna do something else. I'm gonna fight Jake Paul. You know, I mean, what got to be. This is the fight.

[Dean Thomas]

They got to change their culture, though, you know, because a loss in boxing means a lot more than a loss in mma. Like, the MMA fans are more accepting, especially if the fight was good, where in boxing, their whole role is to build you to 20 so they can get you title fights, and they're finding people for you along the way, so.

[Matt Serra]

Well, Canelo lost to Baval, and he lost to Floyd, and I don't think it really damaged him that much. He's still a superstar.

[Dean Thomas]

Floyd, he was at that time. Floyd was the superstar. So I think. Think it probably. I mean, you know, Floyd jumped him at the right time, and Bival, like, I mean, again, Canelo was doing his thing, moving up and Wade and things of that sort.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

As far as business model, I wonder if he's gonna. With Dana involved. Like, the problem with boxing is nobody gives a. About the undercard. They show up for the main card. Is it possible for him to make it as exciting as a ufc, where he's got the whole lineup where it's fights you want to see. Is there that many boxes out there did it?

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah, for sure. They can do that and that. They're. They're trying to do that, and that's one of the things that they're doing with those Riyadh series fights.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. So, like, you're. They're trying to create the league, and I think that's where it gets all into the legislation and all that stuff is changing the Ali act and all that stuff. But. So, I mean, it gets a little tricky, but I mean, the. The goal is to create a league to where boxers can go, and then, like, losses won't mean as much. That might say that's. That might change right there, because nobody really gives a. That much with the. With mixed martial arts, you got your fan favorites, you got guys you want to See, you got fights you want to make, people give them about what.

[Matt Serra]

Got knocked out by Izzy and he didn't lose any start Nothing. Nothing. Zero.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Matt Serra]

And then he came back and won the light heavyweight title and everybody's like.

[Joe Rogan]

He'S back shooting his arrows.

[Matt Serra]

He's back. Best walkout ever. Best walkout ever. No one's walkout is like his.

[Joe Rogan]

It's hysterical.

[Matt Serra]

Callum walson, Fernando Vargas Jr. Fernando Vargas.

[Dean Thomas]

Vargas Jr. That's great.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. So these are two good fight. There's, there's two good fights under underneath that as well. But it's like they're gonna have to do this consistently and build these people up and have, you know, real good video series like the UFC does with Embedded and what they do with the countdown shows and just really get everybody excited about it.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, is that a, is that a bad thing though for. I mean, mean, cuz people are being critical of the idea of that, but to me it sounds like a good thing. No.

[Matt Serra]

To get a bunch of high end fights on one card?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, no, I'm just saying like the idea of like a league for boxers to where there, there's a promotion that will do stuff like that for them, cuz boxing's not doing it for him.

[Matt Serra]

Well, it's all in how much money is getting distributed. Right. So the, the boxers that make a lot of money are the Canelos, the Floyds, the people that are superstars, they make a lot of money.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

But dudes that fight on undercards that you're watching on TV don't make. And that's where everybody gets confused. Yeah, you watch UFC fights and there's people that are under undercards that are making way more money than the undercard people in a boxing match. Way more money.

[Dean Thomas]

Tons.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. So it depends on who's on the card. You know, it really, the, the, the majority of the money, I'm sure is going to the top guys. Whereas in the ufc, it's probably a more spread through, a little more spread.

[Joe Rogan]

The bigger middle class.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, but they don't have a high end that's the same like Usyk made 100 million, something like that for his last fight. How many buys made like 70 something million.

[Dean Thomas]

They're just throwing that oil money.

[Matt Serra]

Might even be selling Usyk's number wrong. I think it might have been like 130.

[Dean Thomas]

That's ridiculous.

[Matt Serra]

You know, crazy money, Crazy money for that Dubois fight. So that, that's the difference. So that's only possible with the boxing model.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

So the, the, the, the guys who eat the most are going to eat the most. Most. Yeah, with the boxing model. But do you think the people underneath that are not going to be doing.

[Dean Thomas]

You think that fight made any money? If you're. If I'm giving 200 million out between the two guys that are fighting the fight, they're not getting that many pay per views.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, bro, they got that black gold.

[Dean Thomas]

How do you sustain that business model though? If. If that's how they're doing it right now? Like, people scream about these guys making more money, but like the UFC would be out of business if they paid that money because you're just not bringing that money.

[Matt Serra]

Or get the Saudis to pay everybody the same. Let's take advantage of that black gold.

[Dean Thomas]

That's right.

[Matt Serra]

Those dudes don't give up turkey. That money for them is like me ordering a pizza. Like, hey, everybody, guys want pizza? I'll make a call, get a pizza delivered. They don't give a. They're making insane amounts of money. Like, we don't even know how much money they have because it's not public. It's not like us. Like, you know, like Bezos has to like disclose his wealth. Like the richest man in the world. Like, are you sure?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Well, you got to think this got to be so much if they're paying these guys a hundred million dollars to box. Not even do nothing. Like, world changes.

[Matt Serra]

Well, I think why Canelo was holding out with Benavidez, because the war, the number that I heard was 200 million. He wanted $200 million. Wow. To fight Benavides. That seems like they're kind of close to that. Yeah, well, you know, if they're. They're getting in the 130s for USYK. This is crazy. That's so much money. To guarantee somebody, you gotta.

[Joe Rogan]

If they do a new model, they, they got it. Like, look, the early prelims, I don't miss those. You got, you got Edson Barbosa on early prelims.

[Dean Thomas]

Deep, man.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, that's a sick fight right there.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah. Two guys that want to bang it out.

[Joe Rogan]

I like that. Your car close. He's never had. Had his, his quite his day. Like he gets to a certain level. Yeah. And then. What is his name? Barouch Bar. Yeah. Give me another mint from the.

[Matt Serra]

But, you know, looked great in his last fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Vanille looked real good against Moicano. He looked real good against Moano, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. He's. He's a great fighter. And he's getting a little bit older. Too, you know?

[Matt Serra]

Well, he fools you with that gray hair.

[Joe Rogan]

I was about to say, he looks like you're 50.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, 36. Yeah, he's not that old, man.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a savage. He did great in that Moano fight.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, he's very good, man. It's a. It's a great, great time for watching fights. You know who else is on the card this weekend?

[Dean Thomas]

I was definitely Jeff.

[Matt Serra]

Neil. Oh, that's right.

[Dean Thomas]

Tim Elliott and.

[Matt Serra]

Bro. Pr. Pratas and Jeff Neal. That could be a banger.

[Joe Rogan]

And I think it all depends on which Jeff Neal shows up.

[Matt Serra]

100. 100.

[Joe Rogan]

If the good ones show up, I think he knocks PRZ out. How about I. I think Carlos Prothas takes us in the first round with a knockout.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, and then it's Jared Canonier and Michael Page. That's the puzzle. How about how that dude just goes from middleweight to welterweight? Doesn't give a just. And no one even seems to. To talk about the fact that he's going up and down in weight.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm a huge fan. And he's like six' four. I'm a huge. Crazy. He's.

[Matt Serra]

He's crazy that he can make light, that he can make welterweight.

[Dean Thomas]

But also Chase Hooper fight.

[Matt Serra]

I think the only person who figured him out was Ian Gary. You got to drag him to the ground.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, man.

[Matt Serra]

Brian Bowno and R. That's a good fight.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a good fight.

[Matt Serra]

That dude is gigantic. He was welterweight for a while, too, but he could. Yeah. Remember?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

He lost to Joaquim.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

He was like a 65 welterweight, but he hits hard. Oh, yeah. Dangerous. Dangerous dude. What? Yeah. So he went up to 185. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He trains in Philly. I think he was out training with hams out a little bit, though.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. A little bit for this camp.

[Matt Serra]

Was this his second or third middleweight because he. He quit. What? I think that last Buckley fight, he was like, enough of this welterweight.

[Joe Rogan]

Brian Battle is so. Is. I love when he.

[Matt Serra]

So that's the second fight.

[Joe Rogan]

I love when Brian Battle. Battle fought in France. Was it in Paris? Oh, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He's like, there's no way you think I'm gonna lose a fist fight to a French dude. There's no way the Butcher is gonna lose a lot of fun to a French dude. They're all booing them always.

[Matt Serra]

It's awesome. Well, everybody's got to remember that's what Colby did when he beat Brazil.

[Joe Rogan]

Damian Maya.

[Matt Serra]

Maya in Brazil.

[Joe Rogan]

That's classy, though.

[Matt Serra]

Like, way Less. But he was going full WWE heel.

[Dean Thomas]

It saved his life. It saved his career.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, for sure.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, it made him millions. It made a million.

[Dean Thomas]

Because they were cutting them.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Nah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I agree. You know, but there's something to be said if you're. If you're purely business minded, talk a lot of.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. About people's dead fathers.

[Matt Serra]

About what?

[Joe Rogan]

A piece of.

[Matt Serra]

No. His way.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what I mean? Yeah. You talk like that, you're looking over your show. He could be having a cup of tea in London a year from now, 10 years from now from now. If Leon Edwards runs into. What do you think's gonna happen?

[Dean Thomas]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Remember you brought up my dead father. I mean, dude, there's stuff, some stuff you could do for the entertainment, but then.

[Dean Thomas]

Hey, man, there's a line.

[Joe Rogan]

We talked about repercussions, bro. You want to talk about somebody's wife or kids or. Or a dead parent.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, that's the same thing. Even with Conor, in the beginning, he was a funny talker. And then it seemed later in the career, it was more almost like forced, like trying to be dark. You know what I mean?

[Matt Serra]

Darker.

[Joe Rogan]

It's no fun.

[Matt Serra]

Well, it's also. You're dealing with people that are dealing with the pressures of being at the top of one of the most dangerous occupations in the world. And every day when you go to bed, you know there's some dude out there that wants to kick you in the dick. He's out there right now. He's out there training. And there's that pressure, like, sometimes wears on guys. And over the course of time, they get like neurological fatigue. Fatigue, Like. Like you're just fatigued from the. Just the strain.

[Joe Rogan]

Just don't give a. No more.

[Matt Serra]

You just start saying dumb, angry, and. And then you got cte and you know, so there's a lot of things going on.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, also the pockets get fatter and you're under that microscope even more.

[Matt Serra]

And then there's out. You got to take a route.

[Joe Rogan]

Gets crazy.

[Matt Serra]

And he probably gets the good stuff. I might try Connor's coke.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what I mean?

[Matt Serra]

I've never tried coke, but if I was gonna, I'd try it from Connor, man.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not even like hiding it, man.

[Matt Serra]

You gotta love that part of him.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, he don't give a.

[Matt Serra]

He's a pure savage. Yeah, he don't care about pure savage. And that's also why he was so good at fighting, man. In the middle of the Jose Aldo for fight, I remember looking in his eyes and watching how calm? Like, genuinely calm he was. I'm like, this guy just. And Dana said it best. He's like. He eats pressure. He just eats it. He likes it. He wants it to be chaos.

[Dean Thomas]

I was kind of.

[Matt Serra]

Guys say that, but they don't really believe it.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, I was. I was at that fight. Thank you, Joe. And when he came in, like, I tell this story to everybody about him. When he came in, did his thing. He ran around the cage.

[Joe Rogan]

Cage.

[Dean Thomas]

And then he went in the center of the cage, and he just went like this.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

And the place erupted. And I was like, God almighty.

[Matt Serra]

How was that? When Senator.

[Dean Thomas]

So comfortable.

[Matt Serra]

I don't think she came. I don't think she came for that one. It was one of them. She did the walkout song for. Yeah, my wife sang it live. Bone chilling, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, you know what's a funny thing is when you see a clip of him saying that there's somebody's interviewing him, and he was about partying. He was partying. Is weakness for your soul or some like that. And then there's a clip of him now.

[Dean Thomas]

Going, at least he's the Blade music.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

That opening scene. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

But no, he.

[Matt Serra]

He was.

[Joe Rogan]

Man, he was something else. His Chad Mendes fight.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, how much he was talking to him, but just still in it. Like, even he got rocked. He goes down. He still comes up and still knocks him out. Alvarez, New York class, my God.

[Matt Serra]

I mean, going up to challenge for a second world title and hitting the matrix, full matrix in a fight with a killer. Like, Eddie's a killer, man, what he did to Rafael Dos Anjos to win the title. Wild performance. Those fights that he had with Chandler, that those guys. Guys took 10 years off each other's lives and.

[Joe Rogan]

Sorry, my ass.

[Matt Serra]

Go, go, brother. Sorry. We got those toilets. They're the best. There it is. Here she goes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. This was the chad Mendez fight.

[Matt Serra]

UFC 189.

[Joe Rogan]

Angel Spells.

[Matt Serra]

And the best part about this is how he walks out with this giant leprechaun smile on his face. Yeah. Watch this. Get to where he walks out, Jamie.

[Joe Rogan]

In the spring of the year. Wild.

[Matt Serra]

The Wild. That dude just knew how to handle pressure.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep.

[Dean Thomas]

He thrived in it.

[Matt Serra]

All right, J. That was a fight that he couldn't even grapple. He couldn't even grapple in training camp. He his knee up. And that's one of the reasons why Chad was able to take him down so easily. He had a hard time training for that fight.

[Joe Rogan]

He Chad up.

[Dean Thomas]

We got to give Chad. He got up off the sofa for this one.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah. He did too.

[Dean Thomas]

Seven days or something.

[Matt Serra]

Yep, bro. Chad's second fight with Aldo, he got fucked. I remember I reached out to him after the fight. I'm like, damn, dude. Because the. The first round, after the bell. Bell. Aldo cracks him and rocks him like for the first time in the fight. He got rocked. And clearly after the bell, I'm like, damn, that's terrible. Yeah, that after you got knocked out by the guy in the first fight, you come back in the second fight. The first round's wildly entertaining. And then you get hit with a shot after the bell.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I mean, it was still a great fight, though.

[Matt Serra]

There's still a great fight, but it makes me wonder, like, if that shot doesn't land, that. That's a real shot, man. That was a different. That was like a real, like, you're almost out shot.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And if you get hit with one of those in a fight, that significantly changes the fight. Yeah, significantly changes it. Give me some volume on the side of the head of Mendez. Uppercut. See, Chad still isn't recovered right there. I mean, way after the buzzer, right? Way after. But.

[Joe Rogan]

And that dream dropped him.

[Matt Serra]

But Aldo was coming on strong. Clearly Aldo was coming on strong.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, dude. Prime Aldo. I don't know who's better. Like, that guy's a monster.

[Matt Serra]

It's amazing how good he still is. When he fought Sahabi and I think he laid his gloves down.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I was like, damn, dude. He's still really good and really fast.

[Dean Thomas]

And down a weight class instead of up as he got older. Most guys don't go down weight class.

[Matt Serra]

I know, but I mean, when you look at how muscular he is at 45, and then you think about, like, what Max did to him. That muscle comes with a price, you know? And when Max put that pace on him, first guy to really expose him.

[Dean Thomas]

And put that pace, Jose was all fast, twitch, you know what I mean? I remember when he double kneed Cub Swans.

[Joe Rogan]

How about this?

[Matt Serra]

Merab didn't take him down.

[Joe Rogan]

I know he couldn't take him down.

[Matt Serra]

How crazy is that?

[Dean Thomas]

He does have a great takedown 38.

[Matt Serra]

Years into his career.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, right.

[Matt Serra]

Like, and Merab couldn't take that guy down.

[Joe Rogan]

Couldn't take him down, bro. He.

[Matt Serra]

His bouts is crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

What? He took down what's his name, Pen, like 10 times.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Couldn't take Aldo down. Yeah. That's wild.

[Dean Thomas]

And now those Jiu jitsu was good.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, very good. Here's that double knee. Like, wow.

[Dean Thomas]

What the man And Cub is. It was a stud, too.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, bro, he was a monster. He was. Aldo was a mar. Look, he's trying to hit him. Even after the referees pulled him off. WEC was a double knee to the dome.

[Dean Thomas]

They had some talent.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah, for sure, man. And this was when Aldo was in his book.

[Joe Rogan]

He was different. Leg kicks, remember?

[Dean Thomas]

He murdered kicks.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Uriah, like, that leg was up, man.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, he told me two weeks. He was.

[Matt Serra]

Photos of it are nuts.

[Dean Thomas]

Two weeks he was on crutches.

[Matt Serra]

He said, yeah, man, he was in his prime. He was something really special. But, you know, it's like, how long can you keep that up? He's kept it up more than anybody. Like, really, because he's still at a world cloud, like a world class caliber at bantamweight.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, he was, dude, for 10 years. Nobody touched him. That's a long time. The reign, especially in a weight division like that, where he just keeps coming.

[Matt Serra]

He just kind of gassed out in that last round because he was going for the finish. He emptied out and Zahabi survived.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, I mean, I. You could make an argument for Aldo and that was a close fight. I didn't think he got stomped out or not. Nothing.

[Joe Rogan]

But I mean, how good was he to himself to know that he's retiring? Probably because he feels like he can't do it at the level he knows he can. And he's still doing it at a high level, you know what I'm saying?

[Matt Serra]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

But in his head, he's like, I'm not doing it at the level I want to be able to do it, so I'm just gonna retire.

[Matt Serra]

Crazy. Crazy. Yeah. That division, man, between 35 and 45, it's. It's interesting that 25 gets so little love. Love. Like Pantoja is only 10 pounds lighter.

[Joe Rogan]

I know, I know.

[Dean Thomas]

He's loving.

[Matt Serra]

He's a straight up killer.

[Dean Thomas]

It is crazy, though. Like, nobody cared about Mighty Mouse and that guy was maybe the top martial artist in the league.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, that take down to arm lock that time.

[Dean Thomas]

I don't know if you'll ever see something like that, but it's crazy.

[Matt Serra]

That's only 10 pounds.

[Joe Rogan]

I know.

[Matt Serra]

How do you know? You don't even.

[Joe Rogan]

You can't tell the difference. Like, how do you hear? Why? How can you tell the difference?

[Matt Serra]

Difference? People get real weird. They get real. They just have this bias towards.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I mean, it was like our, like we were lightweights and it cut our division after that little tournament.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And who, who thought that the lightweights would be the best division going away, too. They asked me to go back up to welterweight. I didn't just go, all right, let me. I was making weight. I was beating guys, you know.

[Matt Serra]

Well, the UFC just had a weird position. I mean, when. When. Before it really took off, they. They were just trying to figure out, like, we got to figure out a way to make money doing this thing. What people. What do people not want to see? And if. If someone has this idea, oh, the problem is the lighter weight divisions.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Those are the most exciting.

[Dean Thomas]

They are.

[Matt Serra]

Look at them now, like, the choosing.

[Dean Thomas]

Fights we've seen, you know?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. 35, 45, 55.

[Joe Rogan]

Pantosia is a great champ, man. How many. He defended it, what, three, four times? What do you do?

[Matt Serra]

Well, he's so good, too.

[Dean Thomas]

And he massacres everybody.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. Great jiu jitsu, striking.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, he takes.

[Dean Thomas]

Takes torture well, too.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah, he's an animal.

[Joe Rogan]

He made Kai Car France look bad.

[Matt Serra]

And the first fight was good. I know they had a good fight, like nine years ago or eight years ago, what it was. But the difference between how much better Pantosia got right away was obvious.

[Joe Rogan]

He's another guy. He was doing Uber eats when he was here fighting in the ufc and he was still working. He's a real humble guy. Yeah, he's like a real, real. Yeah, just the sweetheart of a guy. Good for him, you know, this guy you want to see do well.

[Matt Serra]

Exactly. But that's why I wish the guy got more love. It's like, I don't understand, you know, if he was 145, he'd be a superstar. Right?

[Joe Rogan]

You know, just the idea of being a flyweight just has people spooked out to root for him.

[Matt Serra]

I know.

[Dean Thomas]

I don't get it.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, it's weird. It's weird, but it's always been that way. Even Cejudo, you know, when he was a champ and, you know, when Mighty Mouse was a champ, like, kind of. Kind of with everybody.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Figueredo didn't get the love that he deserved. Brandon Royval.

[Joe Rogan]

Rob's getting the love.

[Matt Serra]

He's getting a lot of love.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, definitely.

[Matt Serra]

But it's always like. It's always like, yeah, but they're flyweights.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I know. Yeah, but fly. Flyweights are worst division. No, they're not.

[Matt Serra]

Like, what? I wonder what the biggest Flyway pay per view of all time was. Like, how many people? You know what I mean? It would have to be.

[Joe Rogan]

It's got to be pretty low.

[Matt Serra]

Would have to be a Mighty Mouse one probably wouldn't you think?

[Dean Thomas]

I saw him talk.

[Matt Serra]

I don't know. Maybe there's more people. I mean, buys these days.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Yeah. I would think it may have been when Pantosia did it in Brazil, because they probably had a lot of Brazilians on it.

[Matt Serra]

Right, so. Right. That was a good fight too. But I bet it's like that, not high.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's got. It's pretty low. Yeah, man, I. I enjoy it. I enjoy. I enjoy all the weekly. It's all I watch, man. Even though I can't even watch the boxing. I wish I could. Could. I don't know. It's just so. It's not nearly as entertaining as the mixed martial arts. And the fact that there's one on like every week, I need it to.

[Dean Thomas]

Be a good one. Like, I like a two good boxers. I'll. I'll tune in. I'm a boxing fan too, but I mean, if I have a choice, I want to watch.

[Matt Serra]

Did you watch Usyk and Dubois?

[Dean Thomas]

I did. Usyk's like. Usyk is like Lemenchenko, plus 100 pounds. Like, you know, he's got great footwork. He's a great technical boxer. And now he's starting to put people out, too. Before, he was just out back boxing people, so.

[Matt Serra]

Especially Dubois. When you see what he did to AJ in that last fight, what is.

[Dean Thomas]

He going to do? He's beat everybody twice in the heavyweight division. Who do they have left for him?

[Matt Serra]

Well, Tyson Fury was talking about coming back, but then it looks like he changed his mind.

[Dean Thomas]

He decided, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

It'S a young man sport. Yeah, yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

He's not wrong.

[Matt Serra]

He's not that old, but he. If anybody could have beaten him, it could have been Tyson Fury in his prime. Because particularly, you know, in, you know, in moments, in the first fight, especially in the early rounds before he got dropped in the ninth, he was doing really well. Like he was lighting him up. More damage. Ever seen Usyk take in a fight ever? And more clean shots that were landing.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, look, Tyson was a fantastic boxer. Don't let the dad bod fool you. Oh, yeah, he was laid on his feet, you know, very technical, whole like. I mean, he obviously has a size and reach advantage over Usyk. And when, when he gets that jab pop and he's tough to beat.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, it's not just a jab. He's got a slick uppercut. He's got a crisp right, great head movement.

[Dean Thomas]

He's defensive slick.

[Matt Serra]

He's an all time Great boxer. All time. Great.

[Joe Rogan]

Is Francis still boxing or is he doing.

[Matt Serra]

Mm, he's gonna do both.

[Dean Thomas]

Is he gonna do it again?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. They were talking about setting up a Francis Deontay Wilder fight.

[Dean Thomas]

That would be interesting.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, they need to make that.

[Matt Serra]

But boxing, you always get some sucked in. It's like there's these stories like, are they doing that? Are they doing that? And then they don't do it. Yeah. Are they doing it? Right?

[Joe Rogan]

Are they doing it? You're right. Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, that's one of the problems with the sport.

[Matt Serra]

Well, this is the Benavidez Canelo situation, because if you ask the average if you want a hardcore boxing fan's dream fight, it's not necessarily Canelo and Crawford, which is a great fight, but you got this thing where Crawford's jumping off all this weight. You're like, man, I don't know. But the great fight is Canelo Benavidez. Everybody knows it, right? Everybody knows it. That's the fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Can't make it happen, though.

[Dean Thomas]

It's been going on forever. Pacquiao should have brought Floyd alone.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what I was about to say. Like, it happens all the time. You can't never make the big fights happen.

[Dean Thomas]

Right?

[Matt Serra]

That has to happen. That's. That fight has. If you. If. If boxing is to be complete, if the circle of power is to be folded over onto whatever. If the. The. The rocks you get for your ring, whatever Thanos gets the infinity stones.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, sorry, guys. Now I'm back in the conversation. He had the gauntlet. All right.

[Matt Serra]

If that. That's the only way it happens. Like, you have to have that fight. That's. That's the fight. And if they. That up and if, like, he goes up and now. Now Benavidez is fighting light heavyweight more.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, it's like, I don't think it happens. In fact, I don't even.

[Matt Serra]

Terrible.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think it happens or it's gonna be too late.

[Matt Serra]

Canelo's probably back surgery.

[Joe Rogan]

Did he.

[Dean Thomas]

No.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Is. He had it on his Instagram. He said his back's been with him for 10 years and he finally got surgery. Like.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, well, that might or might not help.

[Matt Serra]

Bite back surgery is always like 50, 50.

[Dean Thomas]

I had. I had one, and I'm not going wood. It gave me my life back. I had sciatica horribly.

[Matt Serra]

Would you get which surgery they.

[Dean Thomas]

Well, they did a laminectomy from, like, L2 all the way through S1.

[Matt Serra]

Also, all of them were bulging like.

[Dean Thomas]

Well, I had. I had stenosis is what was happening. So the bones were growing and pushing on the nerves. I mean I would get up in the morning and be holding my wall to get to the bathroom, but.

[Matt Serra]

And still that son of a. You know, still rolling.

[Joe Rogan]

40 years old, always hurt. That shit's the worst. But I think it an epidural shot.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, I remember when I blew my. Oh, I. I tried, I was trying gsp.

[Matt Serra]

The second time you. Your back was fired.

[Joe Rogan]

It was back in January, New Year's Eve. I couldn't, I could hardly walk, but. And then I got A. The Dr. Yasha, one of my black belts. I went to the city, got the epidural shot and that started to bring me back. Yeah, yeah, but I, I literally couldn't walk, dude. When I would go to brush my teeth, I couldn't posture myself back up.

[Dean Thomas]

It was fried up.

[Joe Rogan]

It is the worst thing.

[Matt Serra]

Think about that. And then knowing that you have a cage fight coming up against a guy who's the best referee wrestler in the division.

[Dean Thomas]

That's what I said. How do you fight that with a bad back?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, well, you saw the rematch. The first one's way better.

[Matt Serra]

But yeah, there's stuff that you can do for your back, but man, it takes a long ass time to heal back injuries naturally.

[Dean Thomas]

What's, what's going on with yours?

[Matt Serra]

You were saying mine's a lot better now, man. And one of the things that I made sure I did this year is I do do twice a week I do lower back exercises, like core exercises with twists and turn lifting. Like do back extensions with weights. That changed everything.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, I do hypers and the reverse hyper machine for my lower back.

[Matt Serra]

I do that too. Yeah, it used to bother me when I would play pool. I'd be done, I'd be like real stiff and that completely went away.

[Dean Thomas]

Good.

[Matt Serra]

And really what it all up was from archery because you know, you pull one way all the time. And this side started getting this. You throw tendinitis? No, no, no. I just ignored it and beat it into the ground. And even though I was in pain, I still kept shooting while I was in pain. So I it up for months now I draw. I have a cable pulley system at my gym, so I hold a 10 pound weight and then I draw 80 pounds like I'm pulling a bow and I pretend I'm shooting a bow. So I do that for as many reps as I shoot arrows. I do that with my left side. So nice, more balanced now. And then the lower back exercises. But fuck, it takes forever to not if you don't. If you want to really heal something and really get it better and not get surgery, it takes forever.

[Joe Rogan]

Let me ask you with the, with the bow hunting, why, what do you got against the gun? What makes you want to. Is it more primitive? Is it more primal?

[Dean Thomas]

It's definitely harder.

[Joe Rogan]

It's more that for sure.

[Matt Serra]

It's more difficult for sure. And it requires more concentration and it's much easier to up and that's why I like it.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, it's harder.

[Dean Thomas]

But is it more satisfying to the animals too?

[Matt Serra]

Can't compare. I've shot a lot of animals with a rifle hunting and it's great. It's very effective. It's real smart. It's a good way to hunt. If you, if you're hunting for food, like if I, if I had to provide food for my family, I would 100 be hunting with a rifle. 100, no questions asked, if that's what I'm doing. But what I'm doing is I'm trying to get meet with my hobby. So my hobby is archery and it's, it's like calling it a hobby is like a little disrespectful. It's almost, it sounds very corny, but it's almost like a spiritual journey. Like you're going to the woods and you're sneaking up. I, I'm doing it with a guide with, who's a good friend of mine and we go together and we're sneaking up on these animals that are trying to avoid mountain lions and bears and you're getting within archery range of them and just launching a perfect arrow and that's how you're getting your food. So every time you eat your food, it's the best food in the world. But you're also thinking how you got it. Like you worked hard for a whole year to prepare for it. You train for it. I do cardio for it. I do weighted, I carry a weighted backpack. I put this fucking 45 pound plate on my back and I walk around for hours. I do a bunch of shit with it. These, these different exercises just for hunting training.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, how, how much is, how close is archery range? Like how close you had to get to them?

[Matt Serra]

I'm comfortable. Any, anything inside 70 yards if, if I don't think the animals like moving a lot. So if an animal's moving a lot, like in the rut, sometimes they're fighting other males so they'll run at each other and they'll come back and like then you can't take a Shot like that. Because they're not going to be there when you shoot the. They're moving so fast. It's not ethical. With a rifle, you could. With a rifle. You just need him to stop for a second. Just stop for a second, baboon. And you got him.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you ever shoot him but miss the kill shot? You gotta go over to it and cutting his throat.

[Matt Serra]

No. What are you doing with a second arrow?

[Joe Rogan]

Even if.

[Matt Serra]

Even if you hit him perfectly and I've hit an elk perfect perfectly before. They don't. If they don't go down, they're standing there. If they're. As long as they're standing, you hit them with another arrow.

[Joe Rogan]

And that usually takes them out.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, you gotta.

[Dean Thomas]

You never have to track. You got one, not enough. Now you gotta track him down.

[Matt Serra]

They're so tough. You. You'll track them and you're like, this is so much blood. There's no way. This thing's not going to be dead five feet from here. And then you'll find them 800 yards away, dead.

[Dean Thomas]

It's crazy.

[Matt Serra]

They're so tough because you're. You're dealing with an animal that's like every day is mountain lion season. Every day there's mountain lions just sneaking up on them everywhere, you know? You know, and the. You know, if they make it to be seven, eight years old, which is when I start hunting them like these, they're gangsters. They're wise. Some of them have one eye. Because they have their eye poked out by another dude. Because they get those antlers jabbing each other.

[Joe Rogan]

My favorite meat is the. The venison.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

I like.

[Matt Serra]

You had elk meat. Have you had any?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think so, no.

[Matt Serra]

God, I wish. I wish you lived here. I'd give you some.

[Joe Rogan]

My. My father, they say it's game frozen.

[Matt Serra]

I have frozen elk out there right now. If I had a freezer box, I.

[Joe Rogan]

Could give you one, man. I mean, my. Because they say that the venison. They say it's gamey or something, dude. Not the way he makes it.

[Dean Thomas]

Like, if you know how to make it.

[Joe Rogan]

He, he, he.

[Matt Serra]

It's all in taking proper care of it. Once you shoot it, if you let the animal, like lay out in the heat or if the meat gets dirty or if you accidentally cut the glands. They have these tarsal glands on their legs that. That's a nasty smell that they're putting out so that the ladies hear it, you know, the ladies smell it rather. And the other men know that they're there. If that stuff gets on your meat, you're like, there's a lot of. It is like bad preparation, bad care. But if you take care of venison and do it well, it's the best meat. Delicious.

[Joe Rogan]

So delicious, man. I, I, I love that. I don't have it often, but when I do, it's my favorite, man.

[Matt Serra]

The UFCPI should be serving that. I bet they serve like buffalo though, which is also.

[Joe Rogan]

How's horse meat?

[Matt Serra]

I did try that.

[Joe Rogan]

How is it? Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Remember that Montreal, in Montreal, there's a place called Joe Beef. Shout out to Joe Beef. One of my favorite restaurants in the world. It's incredible restaurant.

[Joe Rogan]

I went there.

[Matt Serra]

It's, it's great.

[Joe Rogan]

Does it make you feel palload? Is it tasty?

[Matt Serra]

Oh, well, I didn't ask for it. Let me just say that they served it to us. They was like, the guys who run it are awesome. We know them. I knew, I met them through Bourdain. And so they just served us whatever they wanted to serve us. And one of the things they gave us was it was like a loin of horse. And I was like, really? Like this is like tenderloin, like horse tenderloin loin. And it was really good. It tasted like game meat.

[Joe Rogan]

I actually went to Joe Beef with Vitor Belfort and Sean Brady.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it was a good restaurant.

[Matt Serra]

That's cool. That's cool.

[Joe Rogan]

With the child last night, just wearing it out. Yeah. Man.

[Dean Thomas]

With the dark lord. John Danaher.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

How's he doing?

[Dean Thomas]

He's doing good.

[Joe Rogan]

He's good. He wasn't in a rash guard. He was wearing a jersey.

[Dean Thomas]

Jersey on?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

What?

[Dean Thomas]

When he walked up, I was like, what the hell?

[Joe Rogan]

And he's walking very nice. It's right his hip up for a while.

[Matt Serra]

So did he get both of his hips replaced now? Is that what he's got now?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he's teaching over three months out.

[Dean Thomas]

Of his second hip surgery.

[Joe Rogan]

He looks good.

[Matt Serra]

It makes you wonder like a guy who's that smart and that driven towards jiu jitsu. Like, what would happen if he didn't have a crippled body?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, I know.

[Matt Serra]

You know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, even with a crippled body, when he was rolling.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

He used to people destroyed.

[Matt Serra]

I know. Isn't that crazy? Like blown apart knee, you know, reconstructed the point where it doesn't even like fully extend. Right. Has to get what has he gotten replaced so far?

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, I know both hips. Did he get a knee too?

[Joe Rogan]

He might have got his knee because.

[Dean Thomas]

He said after the hip damaged his knee so bad that he thought he's gonna have to get the knee done.

[Joe Rogan]

He's walking great though. I was so happy.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, he looked good.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm like, man, look good.

[Dean Thomas]

It's always good to see him.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's. That's my thing. Now I get to see him when I come out, right?

[Matt Serra]

Your knee doesn't with you knee, right?

[Joe Rogan]

My left knee. No. But I. The one thing that really is. If I could just. It just haunts me is because I up where you're supposed to step down with your bad leg when you get the surgery. I went up. I went to put up my curtain.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I stepped down. And if you see. I'll just show you here. See this Missing here?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, damn. Yeah, you told me tore my car. Oh man.

[Matt Serra]

So.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's so when I sometimes I'll war. It'll dip like I it. You know, so it sucks. I went to go butterfly sweep. I felt to get real tight. So I got the stem cells shot right in that. That's the only one that hurt. Because they said they had no way.

[Matt Serra]

But they can't reattach it.

[Joe Rogan]

I would have done that earlier. I didn't even know I did it.

[Dean Thomas]

Earlier the next day.

[Joe Rogan]

And then. And I was dealing. I didn't want to go through another surgery. I just got a new knee. So.

[Matt Serra]

Man.

[Joe Rogan]

The knee itself, dude. Titanium adamanium, whatever. The Wolverine's not bothering me at all. But I could bly. How block a kick with that. I feel great with it. And I'm rolling, I'm flexible, but I just. I got I up that. It's a little. It's. It's a little weak, you know, it's a little compromised.

[Matt Serra]

Is there anything you can do like with late weights like I'm doing.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm doing squats. I'm doing my regular squats. I gotta do. I have to do more with the weights. Weights.

[Matt Serra]

But I'm thinking of like single leg lunges. You know, like with that leg.

[Dean Thomas]

What do they call them? Bulgarians squats. I hold like 100 pound kettlebell and do them.

[Matt Serra]

One leg? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's noticeably weaker. So I just got to do something with that. But besides that, the knee itself. I just wish I didn't do that because I hear about bisping running still.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I can't. If I run this, I could dip with this.

[Matt Serra]

The running thing is weird. What are you doing? How much time do you have on those knees?

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, exactly.

[Matt Serra]

Like you kind of have to be.

[Dean Thomas]

And you got to get them fixed again.

[Matt Serra]

But I mean, can they do that? Can they chop the thing off and put a new one in and unscrew it?

[Joe Rogan]

I'm holding off on my right one for as long as I can. Still my right one. I just got shot some stem cells in there, but yeah, if I'm walking too much, I'll feel that. Yeah, I might. They're both just severely. They. Not my left. Now it's new, but then it's just arthritis, man. Fuck. It is not like an old man, but the arthritis riders.

[Matt Serra]

But it's jiu jitsu.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I mean, I know also to get to 55, I used to just have to run in the morning for 45 minutes. Low intensity, but just still I was on a treadmill, just on enduro rush, just running. So I must have wore that down, man. Yeah, I'm sure.

[Matt Serra]

But that's what this thing says is I was running.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

You know, he ran a lot on the streets, too, you know, which I'm sure is a lot of extra pounding.

[Joe Rogan]

That's no good. I can't do that. Yeah, he's still doing it, though. He's.

[Dean Thomas]

He's out of his up.

[Matt Serra]

I think he's doing better now, luckily, because for a long time, his neck was with him so bad, he could barely get out of bed. Jesus.

[Joe Rogan]

His body. Yeah, I remember he had surgery and like a week later, he was right back on the. On the call, right back comment.

[Dean Thomas]

I was like, gotta be careful with your neck, too. Like, that's where the spinal cord is. Like it. Only I didn't. I thought your spinal cord went all the way through your back. Till I had my back surgery, you know, but it doesn't. It comes down, like, maybe halfway. And so that's why when you have your neck, impingements cause a lot of those problems.

[Joe Rogan]

Problems.

[Matt Serra]

That's why that Ernesto Hoost neck kick is so effective. You know, who's kicked so many people in the neck? Just, wow.

[Dean Thomas]

He was a.

[Joe Rogan]

He was always one of my favorite guys to watch.

[Dean Thomas]

Mr.

[Matt Serra]

Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. One of the most beautiful kickboxers of all time. Like, just the combinations he would throw. Pop, pop, left hook to the body, right low kick.

[Dean Thomas]

And they ruined him with Bob Sapphire him twice. Two times.

[Joe Rogan]

See, that'll always baffle me, how Bob SAP beat that guy.

[Matt Serra]

Well, you know what it is? Like, this is one of the reasons why Ernesto wasn't, like, the best candidate for kickboxing to enter into mma, because he was, like, smooth and super Technical and very fast. But not explosive. Right. Not like. Like just launch himself. But CRO Cop was.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

When CRO Cop fought Bob SAP. CRO Cop, Bob SAP up. Because CRO Cop would just blast on you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Like full power, full blast on you. It's like, it was a different kind of thing that he would do, and that's why he was so effective in mma. Like when he went over to mma, like, all of a sudden he's this fast, powerful striker. It's not like a boxer who's going to move around a little bit and pick you apart for a few rounds.

[Joe Rogan]

Styles matter. Styles matter. I wish he would have been in the UFC in his prime. He got over a little late.

[Dean Thomas]

He had pretty good takedown defense, too. He was able to. Kept good range. He would frame guys off and everything. Yeah, he was. I mean, and we all know better. Was it left, left kick, cemetery, right.

[Matt Serra]

Kick, hospital left kick, cemetery, bro. He fought Heath Herring and there's a. There's a shot of him throwing this low kick or this body kick deep into Heath Herring's cage. Like, his whole ribbed cage is just collapsed. And you just see Crocop's shin, like, basically touching his liver. It's insane. It's so deep that you. It's. It's one of the most painful pictures you see from an MMA fight.

[Dean Thomas]

Hering. Remember that dude kissed him before the fight.

[Matt Serra]

He. With one shot. Yeah. In pride.

[Joe Rogan]

Listen, man, you get what?

[Matt Serra]

It's the one in the upper left hand side. The second one upper. That one right there. Yeah, that, that one. Look at that, bro.

[Dean Thomas]

Gotta be some broken.

[Matt Serra]

And when you know how powerful CRO Cops kicks are, and then you think about eating that on the ribs like that. Oh, my God, that is.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like it's folding around his leg.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. I mean, that's another one that he landed on. That's Josh. That's Josh Barnett, bro. The power that that dude had. And how about the one that he landed on Vanderla when he flatlined?

[Dean Thomas]

Vanderla, dude, he had some weak wheels on him.

[Matt Serra]

His legs are big and power. It's just the difference was like when he was throwing kicks at you is 100 gas. He was not feeling you out. He was trying to, like, let you know there's some darkness. You will see darkness, and then you have a flashlight in your face. They'll be like, you okay? Stay put, stay put. You're gonna be okay. But then Gonzaga did that to him.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh.

[Matt Serra]

Remember?

[Joe Rogan]

I was there for that.

[Dean Thomas]

And then he rolled over his ankle.

[Matt Serra]

Remember that?

[Dean Thomas]

Man, his ankle just popped.

[Joe Rogan]

Forever be known as the Crow Cops. Whenever you see that happen, you always think back when it happened. That was in London. Yeah, we were there for that. Yeah, I had to. That's right after I got the belt and I remember me, you and Eddie went out and got some pasta.

[Matt Serra]

That's right.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. That's so funny.

[Matt Serra]

That was crazy. People forgot about Gonzaga.

[Joe Rogan]

I know.

[Matt Serra]

You know, that was a big win, man. Huge, big dude. Big natural dude. The heavyweight division right now is so shallow. In the ufc, it's so shallow. Shallow. It's like without, you know.

[Dean Thomas]

I think they're all playing football and basketball, you know, 100.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

What about Johnny? What's Johnny? I hate to say. Walter Walker. Walter Walker. What about him taking leg locks at everybody? Yeah, I know. Like three in a row.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah. Looks good. Yeah. I mean, we need more of that. We need someone to like if Aspinall is going to have. He's got cereal gone. Right? So that's an interesting fight. And then who?

[Joe Rogan]

There's no one after that.

[Matt Serra]

Derek Lewis. Just a name. Yeah, Derek would be fun.

[Joe Rogan]

By the way, Gone didn't have a bad movie. Not to keep bringing up movies, but I love movies. But KO with Zero Gone.

[Matt Serra]

What is it?

[Joe Rogan]

It's a movie on Netflix. He has his own movie. Action Star.

[Matt Serra]

He's the star of the movie.

[Joe Rogan]

He's the star of it and you might be thinking, all right, how's his acting? Wasn't bad.

[Matt Serra]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

He's the. The. The new Action Jackson. I'm only around speaking in English.

[Dean Thomas]

I do remember that.

[Matt Serra]

Is it in English?

[Joe Rogan]

It's. It's dubbed in English, but it's a French.

[Matt Serra]

So how do you know if he's any good?

[Joe Rogan]

Well. Well, I mean, I watched it. What do you mean?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, but I'm saying it's like it's not even his voice.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you could see him.

[Matt Serra]

You say his acting is really good, but like some other dude's voice. That's kind of crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I mean, it's serial.

[Matt Serra]

God. Just knock. You don't get K. Know it's called.

[Joe Rogan]

Ko but it's not bad, you know. There he is. Hey, listen.

[Matt Serra]

You know, it's not the best sign when a fighter starts starring in movies.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you're right.

[Matt Serra]

I'm not saying that.

[Joe Rogan]

Is this. Is this new? Is this new?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Everybody like it for him in his chances against Tom Aspinall?

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, like that's what I'm saying. You better. Better be trained.

[Matt Serra]

Training. Yeah. It. That if there's a world that can soften you, it's the world of acting.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a weird thing, man. I mean, music.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Kills fighters.

[Matt Serra]

There's also a thing, like, once you become a movie star, like, I don't know, it just doesn't seem to go well. Like, remember Tommy Morrison, when he fought Ray Mercer right after Rocky?

[Dean Thomas]

Oh, that was a hard knockout, man. He beat him down.

[Matt Serra]

Mercer had him tangled in the angle, punching him, blasting away. Boom.

[Joe Rogan]

Didn't Ray Mercer knock out Tim Syer also?

[Matt Serra]

He did, yeah. One punch.

[Joe Rogan]

That was great.

[Matt Serra]

One punch. Ray Mercer, man. And he did that. He was like, 46.

[Dean Thomas]

Remember when he. Who the hell did he fight in? It was like, K1 or pride. And they kicked him and he just left the ring. It was Ray Mercer.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

So I threw a head kick, he looked at him like he's speaking a foreign language, and he just left.

[Matt Serra]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Are you sure that was Mercer, sir?

[Dean Thomas]

I'm pretty sure. Can we find that?

[Matt Serra]

I don't know.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, I think one of the.

[Matt Serra]

Most interesting boxers that entered into MMA or entered into kickboxing was when Masato fought both the cool Vince.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

What are we talking about? He couldn't do with them Legos.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. That's what's interesting, when you watch a boxer who goes over there and like, oh, like, what is this?

[Joe Rogan]

They never got kicked in the leg before. Remember Shannon Briggs fought Tom Erickson?

[Matt Serra]

That's right. Same thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Shannon was on the podcast. He was telling me about it.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

He's like, champ. Every time he hit me, champ. I was like, oh, don't let him kick me again. I gotta quit.

[Joe Rogan]

How did that go?

[Matt Serra]

He knocked him out. Shannon knocked him out because Shannon hit him with a jab to the body. So.

[Dean Thomas]

Oh, here's.

[Matt Serra]

This was. So what happened was Tim was not supposed to kick. They only had this authorized as a fight. But since it was like an, you know, an MMA fight, they were supposed. They were supposed to be a boxing match, right? One. One shot. So what it was. It was supposed to be a boxing match. They couldn't get authorized for it to be a boxing match because Tim Sylvia did not have a boxing record.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

And so you can't fight a former world champion, and you've had not. No boxing record, but you could fight him in mma. It's a world champion versus a world champion. He knows that boxing is a sport that's. In mma. You could do that. And so they made an agreement. Okay, don't kick me. And I'll fight you in the cage. And then Tim opens up with an inside low kick. That's why Ray Mercy, you see like he drops his hands. Yeah, yeah. It makes a lot of sense because they was the original fight they were contracted for was a boxing match, right. And Tim's like, once I got you in here, I'm going to kick your legs.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. That's kind of a cheap shot though. If you make an agreement about that. That's a cheap shot.

[Matt Serra]

Jamie, play it again. Because when you see when Rey gets that inside low kick, he drops his hands. He's got this look in his face.

[Dean Thomas]

What are you doing?

[Matt Serra]

What the is this? See, watch he steps out. Watch this. Throws the cake. Oh, I can't believe.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Matt Serra]

Timber.

[Joe Rogan]

Timber.

[Matt Serra]

Out cold. Old. Yeah, Ray Mercer.

[Joe Rogan]

Good for him.

[Matt Serra]

I mean, Ray Mercer could. Right son.

[Joe Rogan]

Into the shot too.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

About to get full mount right there.

[Matt Serra]

It's kind of amazing how few boxers have actually entered into mma. Not, you know, this was like he got tricked into this one, but it's only like James Tony.

[Joe Rogan]

You would think more wood too, right?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, well, I guess not if you see those Usyk paychecks.

[Joe Rogan]

X. Right, yeah, but how many guys get there? Like think of, you know, relatively speaking.

[Matt Serra]

Spence and Crawford made. That was like a big fight.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean they probably still made a lot. A couple, you know, a gang of millions.

[Matt Serra]

Right?

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, I'm guessing in the single digit millions though, not hundreds of millions.

[Matt Serra]

I bet it's disclosed. See if you find out what the purse was.

[Joe Rogan]

Jamie, we need the next Art Jimison in here.

[Matt Serra]

25 mil.

[Joe Rogan]

25.

[Matt Serra]

25 miles each. Nice, nice. At least 25 mil for their fight. Doesn't.

[Joe Rogan]

But even still, like it's such a small population of boxers that make that as we said.

[Matt Serra]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

So you would think that more would go. You know what I probably got not going to make 25 mil. I'm not good enough to make that, but I'm good enough to maybe go to MMA and make.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

100 grand, 200 grand.

[Matt Serra]

They gotta sit there really good.

[Joe Rogan]

Learned how many other skill sets though.

[Matt Serra]

That's true. But if you're a guy like Crawford, who started out as a wrestler.

[Joe Rogan]

And.

[Dean Thomas]

There are some of them, I think, like this Citron brothers, right. One of them was a wrestler too, I thought.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Kermit Central.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, Yeah. I was digging through a boxing form. They didn't believe the ustic payout numbers. Oh, they didn't believe it. They think it's.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

I don't understand how they can do that. Unless you're just lighting money.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It doesn't make.

[Matt Serra]

You mean about the USYK numbers? Yeah, the payout. Oh, really? Yeah. No one believes it. Oh, yeah, but that's just because they're haters. I mean, there's no. No one proved it. No one proved it. $200 million. It wasn't on pay per view. There's no, like. Unless someone just gave him the money.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah. You let that money on fire.

[Matt Serra]

This is the thing. Those Saudis are known to do that. Yeah. I mean, look what they did with that live golf tournament. Basically.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

They just bought the tournament. And if they did that with basketball or with anything else, they have enough money to do that with basically all sports. Supposedly they did it with the Jon Jones fight. So Jon Jones asked UFC for $30 million to fight Tom Aspinall, then pulled out. Out two days after they agreed he didn't think would come up with the number. And they did. Saudi Arabia was involved. He was hoping they wouldn't meet the number.

[Dean Thomas]

Literally. Just saw that this morning. That's what he said. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Interesting. I wonder if where he's getting his information. That's interesting.

[Dean Thomas]

He. He said earlier in the thing that he priced himself out of the Inanu fight and he thought that that strategy would work again. But apparently they met the 30 million and then Josh John a couple days later did the retirement thing and said he wasn't going to fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Why the wouldn't he want to do that then?

[Dean Thomas]

Yes, I'm with you.

[Matt Serra]

Look how. Listen, it's a dangerous fight. Yeah, for sure.

[Dean Thomas]

Especially at this point in John's career.

[Joe Rogan]

30 million, though.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I'll take the L for 30.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. But he doesn't want the L. Yeah. Here's the thing. The real thing is John's rich right now. Right. He's already a millionaire. So what is he gonna. What's that extra? It's gonna be nice to have an extra 30. But the reality is he's rich right now. He probably doesn't have to work for the rest of his life if he doesn't do anything crazy.

[Dean Thomas]

He still makes money doing his appearances.

[Matt Serra]

And whatever else and he doesn't have to take that ass kicking. Not saying that he would, but if you wanted to look at it from that perspective, like if it's a tough fight, he's been through wars, the Gustafson fights, all. They all take something out of you and you got to know when you don't want to do that anymore. And if that's where he's at right now. I hope he stays retired. But then he jumped right back in and said he wants to fight at the White House. Right? So it's like, it's so hard for those guys to let it go. When they do let it go, it's, it's difficult to figure out who you are, man.

[Dean Thomas]

We got to see where that train's gonna go off the tracks when he's not.

[Matt Serra]

Trained. Kepa. It's like an Aerosmith song, son. I mean, guys, an all time great, though. I mean, if not the all time great.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, I mean, I think so.

[Joe Rogan]

Really good lately. And I, I, I, I, it's, I'm f, I forgot, I forgot who he's going to be fighting. But Dominic Reyes is.

[Dean Thomas]

That should be a good one in Australia.

[Matt Serra]

That's a real, that's a real good one. Oberg's fast. I know that dude's fast.

[Joe Rogan]

He might be faster than, than Dominic Reyes.

[Matt Serra]

I'll tell you what, man. I rewatched Dominic Reyes, Jon Jones, and I could see Dominic Reyes winning that decision.

[Joe Rogan]

That was a, that's, that was a tough call.

[Matt Serra]

Close fight. I mean, I'm not saying I, I, I sat down and scored it, but I'm like, okay, I could see the argument. I want to see the argument.

[Dean Thomas]

I want to know John's story. How much coke did he do the week of the fight?

[Joe Rogan]

You know what I mean?

[Dean Thomas]

Like what, how about when he told D.C. that, like when I was on cocaine.

[Matt Serra]

Like, that's got to be the coldest.

[Dean Thomas]

Thing to ever say, right?

[Matt Serra]

You know, they say there's nine years that a fighter can fight at his very best.

[Joe Rogan]

Best.

[Matt Serra]

It's most, for most athletes. And I think they did this. Someone was explaining this to me. They think they did this based on tennis, because tennis is all about, like, fast twitch and movement and the ability to explode back and forth, and they're not taking any damage. And you could kind of keep your level going at the highest level for about nine years, and then everything just slows down a little bit. It's just too many injuries.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, the training for these things, that's the biggest thing is the camps, especially as you get older. Yeah. You know, getting there in one piece is just, it's just almost impossible if you have to, if you want to just check all the boxes, getting ready for these things.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. You know, and when guys get to be like 37, 38, 39, it's so.

[Joe Rogan]

Hard to predict them to show up to fight. I know I got to make predictions. I'M like, well, they're 38 now.

[Matt Serra]

I'll tell you what, dude, I'm not counting out Cannonier anymore. After he beat Gregory Rodriguez, I was like, God damn.

[Dean Thomas]

Put it on him, too.

[Matt Serra]

Put it on him. And Gregory tried to take him out in that first round, man. He. He went all gas.

[Joe Rogan]

Gregory's a beast, too. Robocop, he just came back and knocked out the Joker Hermanson, and that was brutal.

[Matt Serra]

That was a bad one.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I think Gregory Rodriguez would be the biggest threat to Reiner. The Ritter. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Just like when you think about Styles, the biggest. I think he.

[Matt Serra]

I like that his striking's terrifying. Deridder's got that knee to the body that is so interesting, the way he forces you to clinch and then.

[Joe Rogan]

Tricky.

[Matt Serra]

So good in the. In the entrance with that knee to the body.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And when he did that over and over and over again, it's like, wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Pay for it one time with that overhand.

[Matt Serra]

That's true.

[Joe Rogan]

And that's where Rodriguez would be.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Throw that knee and locked on his joint on.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But perfect nickname for him, too. RoboCop. He looks like.

[Dean Thomas]

He does look like.

[Matt Serra]

That's a fight, right? To Ritter and Robocop, that'd be a crazy fight. Yeah, that's a good one. That's a real good.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm impressed with his jiu jitsu. That the Riddler, man. Am I saying his name right?

[Matt Serra]

The Riddler.

[Joe Rogan]

The Riddler. Everything goes back to comics, but, man, so big.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, he's so big for 85, but so is Robocop. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The way he handled Bo Nickel. He made the point.

[Dean Thomas]

I thought he was. That was a horrible match. Matchup for Bow.

[Matt Serra]

But it was a lot of those knees to the body. Those knees to the body were nasty, man, he was so good at it. He was so good at throwing that knee to the body.

[Joe Rogan]

He's very calm, too.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah, well, he's been through it, man. I mean, we haven't seen him but over in one epc. There it is. That knee. The body's so nasty. It's so nice. It's so nice.

[Joe Rogan]

And he took one. And he took a punch for it, too. It doesn't matter. Oh, my. That sucks.

[Matt Serra]

And on the ground, he's a monster.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

What he did to Kevin Holland Song, I was like, whoa. Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Jitsu's on point, man.

[Matt Serra]

So that's another 85er. I mean, think about that division. You got Fluffy, who just, like, has this breakout performance last weekend. You got, you know, the Whole division.

[Joe Rogan]

Fluffy. Hey, what about that African dude?

[Matt Serra]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

He might be the one.

[Matt Serra]

Like, of all the dudes, big, you know, 185.

[Joe Rogan]

Yo, he. But he's fast. Does anybody know the Afro? A dude's name. Atier, Something like that.

[Matt Serra]

Is it Gutier?

[Joe Rogan]

Gutier. It's a.

[Matt Serra]

You know, it's like a weird.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. That's sounds more like.

[Matt Serra]

Am I saying that right? Jamie.

[Dean Thomas]

She'S looking for verification right now.

[Matt Serra]

He's from Cameroon as well, right? Yeah, yeah, he's scary. He's real scary. There's. There's dudes that just. God, just gave him an extra little. Extra little.

[Joe Rogan]

Extra. He gave him more than an extra little because that I was case, you know, Kate side, man, we watching these dudes and he's punching this guy, like, in the back, and the guy's like.

[Matt Serra]

Going, there he is. Yeah, yeah. And he's like 6 4, 185, doesn't have a ounce of body fat on him. I mean, look at that photo of him. Just look at that photo. That's crazy. You know, that's like one of those. The guy your girlfriend tells you not to worry about photos.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Like, there's a few of those guys that just. They don't even look real over Rodolfo Vieira. He's another one. Yeah, you see him, you're like, how's that a real dude? So here he is, man. This is in his last fight. I mean, vicious power.

[Dean Thomas]

He's power.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, that guy's just getting hit. Like, yo, somebody stop him. You were talking about the heavyweights, man. I was upset by Buscema, man. Oh, bull. Yeah, he looked. He look bad. He look bad.

[Dean Thomas]

Horrible card.

[Matt Serra]

How about they got rid of the other dude.

[Joe Rogan]

That's weird.

[Matt Serra]

Let him go. Like, you up, I think.

[Joe Rogan]

No, I think. I think they're going to resign him. I think it's just a matter of, like. Just like, not having so many guys on a roster to have that burden to keep fighting them.

[Matt Serra]

Why? That doesn't make any sense. If the guy's on, like, a win streak.

[Joe Rogan]

Guys, I think they're going to resign. Sign them, though. It's just probably.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, so it's just like, they didn't sign in time.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you know, it's like when they have so many guys on the roster, they have to promise them certain amount of fights, so.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, so it's like, instead, let guys go so they don't have to promise them.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, so they don't have to promise some fights.

[Matt Serra]

But sure, I'm just speculating.

[Dean Thomas]

That's why they pay him if they don't.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, because they just have to pay them anyway if they don't get them.

[Dean Thomas]

A certain amount of fight or not.

[Matt Serra]

I know, but I mean, you imagine you just fought your ass off, you beat Butcher, you're like, what?

[Joe Rogan]

I think, I think what they'll do is they're like, when they need him again, they'll just get him back.

[Dean Thomas]

I was disappointed as opposed to just how bad shape he was getting cardio wise.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he's. I think he banked on that single leg which was getting taken away.

[Dean Thomas]

You seen him fight that rug rug guy or whatever. And one that was a crazy fight, a crazy war. He took a lot of torture. Like, I was impressed because most Jiu jitsu guys, when they get hit like that, they're not out there for the fight. And then in this fight, didn't look anything like the guy that fought at one. And I thought he was going to be better, you know, because he's training.

[Matt Serra]

Let me me ask you this. What kind of drug testing you think they're doing over there?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, man.

[Matt Serra]

What kind of drug test?

[Joe Rogan]

Drug testing.

[Matt Serra]

You got a point. This is, this is a problem with a lot of guys we got from Pride. You know, a guy, they come over with different physiques, they look different. 100% Muday signs with Octagon MMA faces off with heavyweight champ.

[Joe Rogan]

All right, well, he's staying busy.

[Matt Serra]

You know, the guy's good and we need good guys in the heavyweight division. There's just not a lot of people. I mean, the thing about it is, it's like you got to be exciting.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, I think part of it.

[Matt Serra]

Too is you gotta be excited.

[Dean Thomas]

Physically, he looks horrible. Y. I think if he was looked more marketable, I bet you he'd still have a contract.

[Matt Serra]

I know, but isn't there like something to a guy who looks like everybody up there is something to that, Especially.

[Dean Thomas]

Because he's always somebody up.

[Matt Serra]

Look, when Fedor was in his prime, that was part of his charm. Part of his charm. Roll around his face. Right dead behind the eyes, old man back.

[Joe Rogan]

And how many guys didn't root for Roy Nelson? I'm not saying he looked like bro. He's like an everyday guy knocking guys out.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, people like, people loved him.

[Matt Serra]

That power, that Roy how was crazy he came over from Jiu Jitsu, Everybody knew he's a black belt in Jiu jitsu. Like, always competed in Abu Dhabi and the circuit. Then all Of a sudden, he's throwing hammer.

[Joe Rogan]

He got this mullet.

[Matt Serra]

And Savage takes a shot better than any living human being that's ever lived. I mean, who took a shot better than Roy? He took some bombs, dude, that, that guy took some bombs and absorbed them.

[Joe Rogan]

Nah, he was badass.

[Matt Serra]

And people loved watching him fight with that big belly. They loved.

[Dean Thomas]

He played it up too.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. His brother's been. Yeah. So I don't buy that, that he looked like. It's just the performance was. It wasn't exciting. If you watch that fight, that fight wasn't a good fight. You know, Butcha didn't wrestle.

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Matt Serra]

At a high level, if you're going to be a Jiu jitsu guy and everybody knows he's a multiple world champion in Jiu jitsu and you're fighting in mma, son, you better have some take downs because ain't nobody want. Gonna want to be grappling with you.

[Dean Thomas]

You.

[Matt Serra]

Why would they do that?

[Joe Rogan]

You're right. He was just banking on that single leg. And once he started taking that, he had. He was taking away that single leg very well. And then I'm like, oh, it's a long night. I was all excited, like, oh.

[Dean Thomas]

Let'S see how this goes.

[Matt Serra]

How many times have you watched a high level Jiu Jitsu match between two black belts? And it starts in a standing position and no one goes down at all for like 10 minutes. It's annoying. They're just tying up. There's no good shots. There's no one threatens to take someone down. Everyone's afraid to commit.

[Dean Thomas]

Oh, when you start on your ass in class, then you never practice your takedown.

[Matt Serra]

You're right, you're right.

[Dean Thomas]

Start on your knees.

[Matt Serra]

But it's also that no one wants to take a chance and open themselves up to getting caught, right? So you don't want to dive in for a double and then get caught in a key.

[Joe Rogan]

Man, in Abu Dhabi, I pulled guard every time, right? I didn't give a. If you, if you tried trust in your guard or being able to get back. Now they call wrestling up, as I was doing that back in the day before it was called that. But like, you know, if you're good at not letting somebody pass, especially now with Dhabi rule set after five minutes, you know, all right, now I'm going back. If I'm good at getting out and getting up, putting the guy down, I'm. You know what I mean? I don't know. It's all strategy with that. But I hate when it's a Stalemate with just two guys just pummeling them.

[Matt Serra]

But I get it from the wrestler's perspective too. It's like, hey, hey. Sitting on your ass. Like, take me down. You want me on the ground, you got to take me to the ground. Yeah, I get that too, because that's correct. And that's one of the things that you see that's like very humbling for a real good jiu jitsu guy when he's. There's no way he can take a guy down. And the guy starts beating him up standing up.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And you just have. You're just rushing forward, trying to grab him. You can't get the fight to your expertise level, your. Your area of expertise.

[Joe Rogan]

It looks so bad. Bad. Nothing to fear from you standing. So it's like.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Dean Thomas]

What about Don Fry and Omri Bich? That was a bad. That was a bad one for that.

[Joe Rogan]

He was tiny, by the way. Was a stud. But yeah, yeah, he might have done well if they gave him anybody else but one. He was. If you watch that again, he's way smaller.

[Matt Serra]

And that's a small Don Fry back then too.

[Dean Thomas]

Don fry was 202. That was before he really got on the gas. The other guy cried on fries. A lot different than that.

[Matt Serra]

Pride. Don Fry is a superhero, you know. Yeah. He got gigantic.

[Dean Thomas]

Even his mustache got bigger.

[Joe Rogan]

I didn't know that that guy, the big Japanese guy that they were punching each other in the face.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I didn't know that guy became a quadriplegic.

[Dean Thomas]

Something happened. I saw a picture of him visiting him.

[Matt Serra]

That's all he is. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Come on, dude.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Don was not big, you know. Look at Don. I mean, he wasn't a big. Muscular. I mean, obviously super.

[Joe Rogan]

Different weight classes right here. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

This is crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Crazy.

[Matt Serra]

But not the dawn from Pride. The giant roided up. Don Fry from Pride was a different.

[Dean Thomas]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

This poor Amari was just trying to down.

[Dean Thomas]

Was he just grab.

[Matt Serra]

Full on grabbing the fence. Look, he's hanging onto the fence with shoes on. That's the other thing. He's got wrestling shoes, which is also kind of crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Sucks. Poor Amari. I mean, he didn't have any.

[Dean Thomas]

It was bad.

[Joe Rogan]

I used to train with Amari back old school, top team back.

[Dean Thomas]

It was a long fight.

[Matt Serra]

What do you think Omri Butets weighed in this fight?

[Joe Rogan]

I'm gonna just say knobs around.

[Dean Thomas]

What do you think? A buck 70.

[Matt Serra]

That's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

He looks. He looks small. I mean, look at the size. There's different weight, clothes.

[Dean Thomas]

Look how Young. He is.

[Joe Rogan]

I know.

[Matt Serra]

Big difference. No gloves.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

Was 30 years ago. So, so crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

What, 30 years ago?

[Dean Thomas]

It was 96.

[Joe Rogan]

Sometimes I forget I'm in my 50s. 51.

[Matt Serra]

This is a catch weight.

[Dean Thomas]

I'll be 57.

[Joe Rogan]

It was catch weight?

[Matt Serra]

Yep. Did it say Omri Patach's weight? I'm looking up a different spot. He looks like a welterweight.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

There was a lot of those fights back then.

[Dean Thomas]

Oh, my God. Tons of them.

[Joe Rogan]

Catch weights?

[Matt Serra]

No, just crazy fights. Fighting someone way smaller than them.

[Dean Thomas]

It's like Kerr and Gazelle. Fabio Gergel.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. That's one of my favorite fights of all time.

[Dean Thomas]

I was a big fan. Fabio fan?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Marillo Bustamante fighting Tom Erickson for 45 minutes.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, Marillo was a Jiu Jitsu guy that had some stand up and had some wrestling. He took Linlin down.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

Remember stood on the feet with Chuck Liddell. I thought Marilla won.

[Matt Serra]

That.

[Joe Rogan]

Is one of my favorites to watch. The thing about the Jiu Jitsu guys back then, some of those guys, Fabio goes another one, Murillo is their Jiu Jitsu games. It will. It could transfer over from gi. No, GI mma. And it all resembles the same skill set, like, you know what I mean?

[Matt Serra]

But it could cross over Mario Sperry.

[Joe Rogan]

Mario the Zen machine.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He was great too, you know? Yeah, man.

[Matt Serra]

A lot of those guys from that Carlson Gracie team.

[Dean Thomas]

Real good team.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

Kidnap. Carlson's teaching, like a lot of savages came out of that camp. A lot of them.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Including Vitor.

[Dean Thomas]

Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

But that's how I got. That's where I got my black belt from. From Laborio. From that camp?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Dean Thomas]

Well, yeah, Labor. I mean, Laborio was. Laborio is awesome. He was a good dude.

[Joe Rogan]

Where's he been? He's in Orlando. He's got a school in Orlando.

[Dean Thomas]

He's still got a school?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, he's still got a school and.

[Joe Rogan]

Like a whole network. He's not good for him anymore. No. No. MMA stuff.

[Dean Thomas]

Rolled out of top 10.

[Joe Rogan]

Never Nice Guy out. What a sweetheart guy that guy is.

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, he wasn't.

[Matt Serra]

When did he leave Top Team?

[Joe Rogan]

He left before I did.

[Matt Serra]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. So, I mean, he. In fact, like when he left, that's when they really hired me to like kind of take his place.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, that makes sense. Coming up. Oh, Joe Pifer.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah. He's fighting Abuse. Maga Met off. Yeah, I like. I like Joe, man. He's. He's got some hands.

[Matt Serra]

Joe Piper thought that I was too hard on them in the Commentary of the last fight. Yeah, it's just because of his potential. That's all it is. I just knew that he was looking for the big shot instead of like just letting it come. And yeah, he was so good in the first round that unfortunately, like, he had so much success and almost took him out that he started looking to take him out.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And if you load up with Kelvin and I think it still box.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it freaked him out a little bit that Kelvin was still there. You know, like we like, he's like, yo, I didn't hit this dude with everything. Still here. What the hell's going on?

[Matt Serra]

Nobody's got a chin like that guy. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Chubby though. Kelvin.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, he's a 70. He's a 70. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He shouldn't be, but he's always had such problems making it.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, but you know what, man? It's just like if that guy was at the ufcpi and they gave him all his meals and he had someone babysit him and make sure you don't just don't off. Don't eat anything other than this. And it's like too many guys just want to feel comfortable.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

It's like, okay, but you're not going to feel comfortable losing.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

So you're fighting a giant and that this guy is coming down from an extreme weight. 185 first. 210. Oh, I'm ready. Touch is 185. Yeah. Okay. Damn. He's also a late replacement.

[Joe Rogan]

I gotta go back again. I'm sorry.

[Matt Serra]

Well, let's wrap it up.

[Joe Rogan]

Is stopping this.

[Matt Serra]

We've been doing this for three hours. We've been doing it three hours.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. I feel you guys are going to curse me after this. I'm sorry.

[Matt Serra]

No, no, no, no. We understand. You got a legitimate issue.

[Joe Rogan]

I have a lot of issues.

[Matt Serra]

There's nothing wrong. Nothing wrong. Ground Control, Baltimore, Maryland.

[Joe Rogan]

Can I have a shirt?

[Dean Thomas]

Ground Control Baltimore dot com.

[Matt Serra]

It's crazy that I didn't bring that.

[Dean Thomas]

Shogun Fights dot com. I got you, Matt. Don't worry.

[Joe Rogan]

Thank you. Me Medium now Fight Court, the new podcast. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, you got a new one?

[Joe Rogan]

I always got it on Dean Thomas Fight Court.

[Dean Thomas]

So at be more MMA on Instagram too.

[Matt Serra]

I'll see you this weekend. Chicago, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I'll be there. Matt. Sarah, channel. Oh, I'm sorry. We done?

[Matt Serra]

No, I'm done.

[Joe Rogan]

Matt's there a channel on YouTube? I'm having fun with that. I got that's a little podcast that can like 30 something thousand. I want to get to a hundred thousand. Come join the fun.

[Dean Thomas]

Yep. Kick out there. We got a ground control in Sykesville opening up soon, so number six is on its way.

[Matt Serra]

Nice. Nice. And the website has all the addresses and everything listed. Okay. All right, guys. So much fun, dude.

[Dean Thomas]

Always great.

[Joe Rogan]

Thank you.

[Matt Serra]

Appreciate you guys. Thank you. Bye.

[Dean Thomas]

Everybody.

[Joe Rogan]

It.