The Joe Rogan Experience MMA Show #170 – Michael "Venom" Page

Date: October 3, 2025
Guests: Joe Rogan (host), Michael 'Venom' Page (MVP), Jamie (producer/sidekick)

Episode Overview

This episode features UFC welterweight/middleweight contender Michael "Venom" Page ("MVP"), who joins Joe Rogan for an in-depth, free-flowing conversation about his unique journey in MMA, the intricacies of his unorthodox style, the mental and physical hurdles of elite combat sports, lessons from both victory and defeat, the business and art of self-promotion, and much more. With candid stories and signature banter, MVP and Joe explore how point fighting has transformed MMA, the psychology of fighters, modern training, athlete branding, and what it takes to thrive—and survive—at the highest level of combat.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Influence and Challenges of MVP’s Unorthodox Style (00:14–06:54)

• Gratitude for Support: MVP opens by thanking Joe for championing his style even when critics dismissed him. Joe recognizes that MVP and other "point fighters" like Wonderboy Thompson filled a vital gap in MMA.
  • “What’s missing is point fighters...they have that skill of closing distance and being elusive. It’s not like any other sport.” – Joe Rogan [01:08]
• Point Fighting vs. KO Power: The duo breaks down how MVP’s karate-style movement and elusiveness disrupt the rhythm of typical power-strikers and flat-footed fighters.
  • “Power only means something if you land. My whole element is not being touched.” – Michael 'Venom' Page [05:12]
• Psychological Warfare: MVP’s strategies, including mind games mid-fight (“calm down, calm down”), add to opponents’ frustration and fuel his critics, many of whom accuse him of "fighting cans."
  • “I’m just making it seem a lot less difficult than it actually is. These guys are super talented fighters.” – Michael 'Venom' Page [06:29]

2. The Famous Cyborg KO and Dealing with Fame (06:54–10:48)

• MVP recounts the infamous KO against Evangelista 'Cyborg' Santos and the public’s morbid fascination with the injury.
  • “That was the most gruesome injury I've ever seen. I've seen a lot of broken bones. I've never seen someone with a caved-in head.” – Joe Rogan [07:34]
• The emotional aftermath—meeting Cyborg again years later is described as “awkward” and emotionally heavy.
• Discusses the duality of entertainment and violence, with MVP acknowledging the weight of having hurt fellow fighters.

3. The Path to MMA: From Points Champion to Caged Pro (11:04–16:52)

• MVP details his boredom with repetitive matchups in point kickboxing and lack of recognition/sponsorship in that world, which led him to try MMA.
  • “I know I want to compete for a living. I just didn’t know what in what. So then I said to myself, okay, cool, I need to take a step away from this.” – Michael 'Venom' Page [12:05]
• Recounts his initial plans to train in the U.S. but ultimately falling in love with London Shootfighters when he visited.
• Details his humble beginnings in grappling, being “twisted up into a pretzel” and loving the challenge.

4. Early Struggles and Breakthroughs: Confidence and Childhood Lessons (17:47–30:05)

• Siblings and Humility: MVP describes years of losing to his siblings, which instilled resilience and a capacity for relentless learning.
• How a grueling, multi-fight day at age 12 "clicked" something in him—suddenly, the beaten kid became an unstoppable champion.
  • “All the kicks I’d walk into, face first, I was like, oh, actually I can do this.” – Michael 'Venom' Page [23:16]
• Rapid progression leads MVP to fight and beat 18+ "seniors" as a young teen.
• Joe and MVP discuss the power of exposure—observing elite athletes raises expectations and abilities.

5. The Art of Fighting and the Importance of Novelty (30:05–33:33)

• Conversation on “pattern recognition” in MMA and how MVP’s unpredictable, bladed stance breaks those patterns, forcing opponents to improvise in real time.
  • “You don’t have normal patterns. It’s such an advantage.” – Joe Rogan [30:39]
• The rarity of point-fighter stylists in MMA and how most never experience it until fight night.
• The blessings and curses of his unique approach—hard to find sparring partners, hard for others to justify cross-training against his rare style.

6. Conditioning, Training, and Weight Cutting Realities (41:07–46:55)

• MVP and Joe compare weight cut strategies, with MVP advocating for minimal, healthy cuts and expressing distaste for extreme weight loss culture.
• Laments that being big at 170/185 puts him at a structural disadvantage if opponents are rehydrating massively, but a necessity due to modern standards.
  • “If you don’t join in, you’re fighting monsters.” – Michael 'Venom' Page [113:16]
• Advocates for fighting nearer to ‘true’ body weight and discusses a vision for better regulations.

7. The Business of Fighting: Branding, Marketability, and Career Strategy (49:30–53:57)

• On Self-Promotion: MVP reveals that he studied promo masters like The Rock and Chael Sonnen, mapping out catch phrases, celebrations, and entrances to create a memorable brand.
  • “I studied this… your five seconds after the fight on the mic… what message is going to land?” – Michael 'Venom' Page [52:20]
• Discusses why skill alone doesn’t always get athletes the big fights or the audience, and how fighters "need to be able to market yourself."
  • “You are the product.” – Joe Rogan [67:30]

8. Inside the UFC: Level of Competition and the Mental Game (55:00–63:51)

• MVP describes initial UFC nerves, especially feeling the weight of expectations as a name from Bellator, but after a few fights, regaining his familiar confidence.
• Both men emphasize that the current level of talent is off-the-charts, due to the new generation growing up immersed in MMA (see: 61:16–61:41).
• The importance of mentality and composure in dictating outcomes at the top tier.

9. On Strategy and Rule Sets in MMA (68:01–74:25)

• Discussion on the “problem” of dominant positional wrestlers who do just enough to win by the rules—Joe contends this is reality, MVP pushes for more active finishing attempts.
  • “Try to finish the fight. Don’t just take me down and just…” – Michael 'Venom' Page [71:25]
• The role of evolving rules and fan perceptions in shaping fighting styles.

10. Weight Cutting and the Case for Reform (112:16–119:59)

• Joe and MVP dig into extreme weight cutting as "legalized cheating,” listing notorious examples and dangerous consequences.
• The case for more stringent and random weight checks and hydrated weigh-ins.
  • “If we started calling dehydrating cheating like PEDs…maybe people would stop.” – Joe Rogan [116:03]

11. Resilience, Loss, and How Competition Builds Character (93:01–101:23)

• Strong emphasis on the vital role of losing, hard competition, and familial/sibling challenges in building a competitive mind.
• Critiques trends in modern childhood (“no picking teams…everyone gets a trophy”), warning how it softens future adults and removes the lessons of adversity.
  • “The feeling of bad from losing is actually good for you.” – Joe Rogan [100:12]
  • “I got destroyed for four or five years...something clicked.” – Michael 'Venom' Page [18:35]

12. Injuries, Setbacks, and Realities of the Fight Game (131:39–135:26)

• Both discuss fighting through serious injuries—MVP reveals entering a UFC fight barely able to walk on his foot, still refusing to pull out (“It’s not happening”).
• Joe underscores that fans rarely appreciate how banged-up most athletes are come fight night.

13. Future Plans: Beyond Fighting (149:20–151:49)

• MVP discusses his foray into film production, short films on athlete mentality and anxiety, as well as entrepreneurial ventures like his beef jerky company ("Snap Down Snacks") and a restaurant.
• The creative impulse and need to "paint pictures" carries from martial arts to the arts—MVP wants to retire knowing he’s built something beyond the cage.

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On MVP’s Innovations:
  “This is what I’m saying. This is crazy. You can’t even hit them.” – Joe Rogan [31:08]

• On Psychological Warfare:
  “Calm down, calm down.” – Michael ‘Venom’ Page (on in-fight mind games) [05:30]

• On Learning from Loss:
  “I used to get my ass kicked everywhere we went…for four or five years. And then something clicked.” – Michael 'Venom' Page [18:35]

• On Self-Promotion in MMA:
  “You are the product.” – Joe Rogan [67:30] “What are you going to say? What message is going to land?” – Michael 'Venom' Page [52:23]

• On Overcoming Anxiety:
  “Anytime I feel slightly stressed, you might see me dance...it’s not for the other person, sometimes it’s just to stay chill.” – Michael 'Venom' Page [91:17]

• On Resilience:
  “Can you do it when it counts? Can you do it when the lights are on?...That’s when it counts.” – Michael 'Venom' Page [82:44]

Notable Fight and Fighter Coverage

• Evangelista “Cyborg” Santos KO and aftermath ([06:54]–[10:48])
• Early point fighting and inspiration from Wonderboy Thompson and Raymond Daniels ([02:09])
• Musings on Tom Aspinall, Francis Ngannou, Jon Jones legacy, and heavyweight movement ([33:09]–[35:51])
• Bellator vs. UFC, cross-promotion, and market forces ([54:27]–[56:29])
• Homage to Demetrious Johnson, Alex Pereira, and branding via walkouts or personal interests ([64:28]–[67:22])
• Injuries: TJ Dillashaw’s career cut short by shoulder injuries ([127:45]–[128:20])
• Stories of underappreciated gym superstars who can’t perform on fight night ([82:59]–[87:00])

Important Timestamps for Reference

• 00:14 – MVP thanks Joe; discussion on criticism and point fighting
• 06:54 – The infamous Cyborg KO story
• 11:04 – Journey from kickboxing to finding MMA and grappling
• 18:35 – Childhood losses and learning from defeat
• 30:40 – How MVP’s unpredictability gives him an advantage
• 41:20–46:00 – Training, weight cutting, and athlete health
• 52:23–53:57 – The art of athlete self-marketing
• 61:07–61:41 – The new generation: talent influx in MMA
• 91:17 – Coping mechanisms, fun, and handling fight nerves
• 113:16–119:59 – Weight cutting as “legalized cheating”—calls for reform
• 131:39 – Fighting injured and the realities behind the scenes
• 149:20 – MVP’s movie projects, post-fighting career vision

Closing Thoughts

This episode showcases MVP not just as a martial artist, but as a thinker and entrepreneur, highlighting his approach to combat as both art and science. Joe and MVP's rapport offers listeners an authentic look at the philosophy, psychology, hardships, and joys behind martial arts mastery—and what it takes to stand out in the rapidly evolving world of mixed martial arts.

For fans and fighters alike, the conversation is a vital blueprint for success, resilience, and self-expression in and out of the cage.