JRE MMA Show #174 with Terence Crawford

Summary

The Joe Rogan Experience MMA Show #174 Guest: Terence Crawford | Date: February 25, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode features boxing superstar Terence "Bud" Crawford, fresh off his historic win over Canelo Alvarez. Joe Rogan and Crawford dive deep into the journey of a generational fighter who climbed multiple weight classes, conquered doubters, retained his health and legacy, and now shares hard-won wisdom for fighters and fans. The conversation covers skill, legacy, the business of boxing, fight preparation, athlete mentality, and lessons for life beyond the ring—all delivered in the honest, reflective, and strategic voice of a champion.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Crawford’s Journey and Legacy

• Crawford’s defining moment: His victory against Canelo at 168 lbs. shocked the boxing world, disproved doubters, and settled debates about skill versus size. Crawford equates his journey to legendary fighters who made greatness look easy.
• Handling naysayers: Throughout his career, Crawford felt undervalued despite beating top-tier opponents. He notes how, for others, victories over Crawford’s past opponents were lauded, but his own wins were minimized ([02:31]).
• Motivation beyond money: Legacy, not wealth or fame, drove Crawford—"I want to be remembered as one of the greatest champions of all time, you know, and I think I did that." ([16:54]).
• Comparisons to legends: Being discussed among the likes of Sugar Ray Robinson, Floyd Mayweather, and Sugar Ray Leonard is validation for the sacrifices and discipline he's committed since childhood ([15:05]).
• Going out on top: Crawford is content to retire after the Canelo fight, emphasizing leaving the sport healthy, wealthy, and with his faculties intact—a rarity for boxing legends ([17:14]).

The Canelo Fight & Skills Analysis

• Pre-fight doubts: Many believed Canelo was too big or experienced for Crawford. The win was definitive and technical, with Crawford staying in his element under pressure ([01:42]).
• Fight chemistry: Canelo’s strengths (power, counter-punching) forced Crawford to adjust tactics and stay ahead with quick counters and combinations—"You gotta counter the counter at times." ([11:51])
• Preparation mindset: Every fight is treated as the toughest of his career; underestimation is dangerous ([13:09]).

The Business of Boxing & Promoters

• "Side of the street" politics: Crawford laments how promoters' politics delayed big fights, forcing fighters onto different promotional “sides”—yet is proud he made his own way ([06:25]).
• How fights get made: Recent big fights are thanks to outside investors like Turki Alalshikh, who’s changed the game by funding fights promoters wouldn’t pay for ([108:17]).
• Lessons for fighters: Crawford stresses fighters’ power in collective bargaining and choosing career-defining fights for legacy, not short-term pay ([55:11]).

Weight Cutting and Health

• Boxing vs. MMA weight cuts: Weight cutting is extreme in MMA due to fewer weight classes. Boxing, with its increments, allows for less drastic, healthier cuts ([49:44]).
• Personal experience: At his worst, Crawford cut around 25 lbs., and traces the only time he was seriously hurt (vs. Gamboa) to weight depletion ([45:57]).
• Fighter health after retirement: Crawford underscores prioritizing long-term health over fleeting fame; he points out how the sport often forgets its aging heroes ([18:28]).

Lifestyle, Mentality, and Staying Grounded

• Low-key approach: Despite his success, Crawford shuns entourages and lavish lifestyles. "That’s just a bill. You gotta pay all those people to be around you." ([22:08])
• On money and fame: He prefers accumulating wealth over displays of "being rich." Real wealth, he says, is peace, privacy, and security for family ([69:29]).
• Staying focused: Crawford credits his resilience and self-belief to years of being doubted. His advice to his son—and young fighters—is to act with intention ("Don’t say, 'I want to,' say, 'I will.'") ([29:43]).

On Training, Switch-Hitting & Coaching

• Unique skills: Crawford’s status as one of boxing’s best switch hitters is attributed to natural talent—despite initial resistance from coaches, he persisted until it became a signature style ([23:21]).
• Advice for coaches/mentors: Coaching must account for each fighter’s style and capacity to learn; patience and adaptability are key ([26:37]).
• Training evolution: As he matured, Crawford learned the necessity of rest and intelligent periodization: "My best days are when I don’t want to do it." ([115:53])

Reflections on Modern Boxing & the Sport

• Defending boxing artistry: Crawford and Rogan discuss how pure "hit and don’t get hit" boxers (e.g., Floyd, Shakur Stevenson) are underappreciated by casual fans ([33:13], [34:26]).
• Fight fan culture: The US often "chews up and spits out" fighters after losses, unlike the supportive UK fandom ([94:23]).
• Rise of women’s boxing: Praise for Claressa Shields’ sold-out event and her influence on women’s boxing ([110:02]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Skills pay the bills." — Crawford on overcoming size and doubters ([00:35])
• "I've been fighting for something, a title, since 2014. Now, it's just like, what's the motivation? Just money. My thing was, the money's gonna come. I was taking pay cuts after pay cuts because I knew what I wanted my legacy to be." ([15:42])
• "Everybody has to shut the fuck up now." — Rogan on Crawford’s Canelo victory ([22:50])
• On the fleeting nature of fame: "It’s temporary, and they don’t understand that. They only chant your name for a moment….and turn their back on you in a heartbeat." — Crawford ([106:15])
• On US fan culture: "America…they chew you up and spit you out." ([94:43])
• "They created a whole side of the street because of me…It was always something. But now look at everybody, all the promoters working together now." — Crawford on boxing politics ([06:25])
• "If you have it and not need it, better than need it and not have it." — Crawford on switch hitting ([26:12])

---

Notable Timestamps

• 00:20 – Canelo pre-fight context & beating size expectations
• 01:42 – Crawford on pre-fight doubts and being in "the zone" against Canelo
• 04:18 – Breaking down the Benavidez fight and overcoming adversity
• 06:25 – "Side of the street" politics and promoter issues
• 10:13/15:05 – Being compared to the all-time greats; legacy talk
• 17:14 – Exiting the sport healthy and on top
• 22:50 – Rogan: "Everybody has to shut the fuck up"
• 23:21–26:28 – Switch-hitting discussion, the science of stance switching
• 29:43 – Coaching and teaching advice for his son and young fighters
• 33:13–35:12 – Boxing artistry and fan perception of "pure" boxers
• 49:44–54:55 – In-depth on weight cutting in boxing vs. MMA
• 55:11–61:05 – Business, legacy, fighters, and the leverage of promoters
• 70:11–71:42 – Wealth vs. riches, life after boxing, and financial discipline
• 108:17–110:02 – How Saudi investors are making historic fights possible
• 110:02–111:43 – Claressa Shields and the rise of women's boxing
• 115:03–124:09 – Old-school training, discipline, resting as he aged

---

Final Reflections

• Retired but fulfilled: Crawford feels the same, "like it's supposed to," and remains focused on family and the gym ([102:45]).
• Avoiding the limelight: He’s turning down commentary/media, preferring to avoid the fame trap that brings down many athletes ([104:13]).
• Wisdom for the next generation: Legacy, self-reliance, humility, discipline, and smart business—plus the importance of the "right people" and mentorship.

---

Conclusion

This episode serves as both a masterclass in the mentality and practice of a generational champion and an admonition on the pitfalls of fame, money, and the unforgiving nature of fandom and promotion in combat sports. Crawford’s philosophy—do it your way, for your reasons, and walk away with your health and pride—is offered with humility and candor, making this an essential listen for fighters, fans, and anyone seeking wisdom on mastery, perseverance, and life after glory.

Transcript

[A]

Joe Rogan podcast.

[B]

Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. All right, champ is here. Last time I saw you, I think it was before the Madurov fight, wasn't it? Wasn't it before that fight?

[A]

I believe so.

[B]

It was before that fight. And that was just around the time you were talking about fighting Canelo, and everybody was like, that's crazy. And he's going to go up all the way to 168. Two more weight classes above that. That's nuts. Everybody's got to shut the up now.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. You know what I say? Skills pay the bills.

[B]

They do, they do. Skills are everything, man. But the thing is, it's like, it's interesting. I watched both the Canelo fight and the Madrov fight again recently, and Madov looked bigger. He looked bigger than Canelo. It was really interesting.

[A]

He was a big dude.

[B]

He's a big dude. I wonder what that guy walks around at, because it's not 154.

[A]

No, not at all. He fought at 160 his last fight.

[B]

Did he? Yeah. Really an outstanding performance against Canelo. It was like I was telling you before, it was a great I told you so fight for me because there were so many of my friends that are big boxing fans just thought Canelo was too big. They thought it was too much of a jump. He's too experienced. Well, you got it. I mean, you made it. Look, I want to say easy. It wasn't that it was easy, but it was definitive. You know, it was such a clear victory. At one point, when you were pity patting them and then firing off hard shots, I was like, oh, my goodness, he's feeling it.

[A]

Yeah, I was in my element. I was in the zone, mainly because a lot of people was doubting me as well, you know, telling me I was gonna get knocked out. I was too small, and I was just fighting for the money when I knew what I was capable of. So I was just like, I'm gonna show y' all what I'm really about. Because this is not the first time that I done heard that, oh, he can't do this, he can't do that.

[B]

I think your situation is very similar to when Roy Jones was in his prime. Because when Roy Jones was in his prime, everybody was saying, Roy Jones, other than James, Tony, Roy Jones really hadn't fought anybody. And I was like, no, he's just that much better than everybody else. He makes it look like they're not good. If you saw Them fight against everybody else. You would say these guys are awesome.

[A]

For sure, for sure. And I've been dealing with that my whole career. You know, people getting so much praise after fighting a guy that I already knocked out. You know, if they beat him, oh, such and such beat this guy. But me, it's, oh, you fighting tomato cans or you fighting bombs and things like this? So I was just like.

[B]

It was just because you're doing it so well. That's what it is. It's just people, they try to find flaws in every great performance. And the flaws, the only flaws they could find is, yeah, but who are these guys that he beat? But you beat great guys.

[A]

Champions.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, listen, one of the more interesting fights to me was a Benavidez fight. I, I rewatched that again recently too. Especially that. Cuz there's so much tension. There's so much talking and tension and so many emotions and he could fight, he could fight.

[A]

You know, a lot of people, they looking at his injury and he fought no different from before or after the injury. He fought the same. You know, so that's another thing that they gonna say, oh, well, he had got shot in the leg and if he didn't, then this would have happened or that would have happened. And I'm like, he fought the same. Like if you know boxing and you see him box, nothing changed from his boxing standpoint. He wasn't a mover. He wasn't this guy that used his legs as a defense or offense. So I just take it as a grain of salt and laugh at him.

[B]

Yeah, I'm sure that injury sucked. But he, he fought the same and he fought well. I mean, he's a tough guy. He fought really well.

[A]

Took me 12 rounds.

[B]

Yeah, listen, and, but oof. That right uppercut in that 12th round that put him down, I was like, oh my goodness. I remember watching that fight live. I was like, oh, there it is, there it is. You found him.

[A]

Yeah, he, he had good head movement, you know, tough guy. He was ducking them hooks and them straight punches. So I was just like, all right, I gotta switch it up.

[B]

Well, also, he believed in himself for sure.

[A]

Definitely.

[B]

He came into that fight to win.

[A]

Oh, definitely. Most definitely. Most definitely.

[B]

It's. It's beautiful to watch you get what you deserve. Because I felt like, man, if you retired after the Spence fight, I don't think people that are casuals would really appreciate your skillset. You know, the people inside boxing, the people that really know boxing did, but I felt like too many of the casuals just talk so much shit. And so the. The Canelo fight was the cherry on top of the Sunday.

[A]

Yeah, it was. And even now, a lot of people saying, oh, well, Canelo's washed, he's old. And I'm like, well, I'm older than him. Like, what are we talking about? You know? So I just. I just love it, you know, because it just shows what level I'm on, you know, for everybody to already know what happened, and then they try to take what happened and make it a reason why it happened, right? So I just be like, man, it's cool.

[B]

That's boxing, though, right? That's sports in general. You're always going to have that. There's always going to be a bunch of sideline people that talk a lot of shit. But, you know, for a lot of fighters, it's later in their career, especially when they're avoided or they have difficult difficulty signing big fights. It's later in their career that people really appreciate them. Like, think about Bernard. It wasn't until Bernard Hopkins beat Felix Trinidad that people were like, oh, I think he was like, 37 or 36 when he fought Trinidad. And a lot of people are saying, he's washed up, it's over. And when he knocked out Trinidad, everybody was like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I've been calling out everybody since the beginning, you know, they created a whole side of the street because of me. You know, I'm with a different promoter. It was always something, you know, and everybody always blamed me. But now look at everybody now, all the promoters working together now, why couldn't they work together when it was my turn to shine? But. But it is what it is, and life happened, and I'm happy the way it happened because I did it my way. And I don't think too many other fighters can say that.

[B]

That's true. Yeah, it's a dirty business, you know, the business of promoters and keeping guys away from guys and making sure that their fighter, you know, avoids certain fighters. It's always been that way, you know, and it's unfortunate for the fans because there's so many. Like, the big one for a long time was David Benavidez and Canelo. Like, everybody wants to see that fight, and they just can't figure out a way to make it happen. And you gotta think someone's avoiding somebody and it's not Benavidez.

[A]

Nah, not, Not. Not at all. You know, I just think Canelo, in a sense, he know how big Benavidez is gonna come in the ring. You Know, Benavidez is a great fighter, you know, but he's a big fighter. He's a tall fighter, you know, And I just think Canelo knows, like, why would I want to get in the ring with this guy? That's going to be massive come fight time. And I'm not that big of a guy at all. I've been doing all this with my skills. Because. Because Canelo's not a big guy. He's been fighting big guys his whole career.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and beating them with skill, you know, so you gotta tip your hat off to Canelo and what he's accomplished.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Being 5 7, going up to 175, and fighting these big guys and actually winning and knocked out Kovalev.

[B]

I mean, it was Kovalev later in his career, but he's still Kovalev for sure. And then having the courage to fight Bivol in his prime, for sure. I think that's the fight that probably kept us from getting the Benavidez fight, the Bivol fight. Because I think after that fight, he's

[A]

like, okay, yeah, this dude big.

[B]

This is a little big. Because Bival, not just big, but he's got that Russian style. Light on the feet, in and out, in and out, in and out.

[A]

Good boxer.

[B]

It's a difficult style to handle, you know, and like, the only guy to be better beef. It was another beast. This episode is brought to you by CBS from executive producer Taylor Sheridan. A new era of Yellowstone begins in the new CBS original series, Marshals. Casey Dutton is back, and he's teaming up with an elite unit of U.S. marshals to bring range justice to Montana. With the Yellowstone ranch behind him and a new team at his side, Casey will balance family and duty as he faces his biggest fight yet. Luke Grimes stars in Marshall March 1st on CBS and streaming on Paramount Plus Yep.

[A]

So I think you know him knowing that, and then I think the disrespect that he got from Benavidez had persuaded him to go elsewhere. But, you know, there's been many boxers from the past that didn't fight people that they wanted to fight. Right. You know, look at Sugar Ray Leonard and Aaron Pryor. They never got that fight, so. And that's just one admitting. So it's gonna be like that.

[B]

Well, it always seems at the end that it all worked out the way it was supposed to, you know, and that's how it felt like for me after your Canelo victory. Like, this is. This is like, you know, all the bullshit. It's like now everybody has to shut the fuck up. It's like all the bullshit's gone. It's like, now everybody's got to give you your just do. Because that was a stellar championship performance. I mean, that was one of the all time great performances because it was a Canelo that's, you know, you could say whatever you want. I think he's still in his prime, and you just outboxed him. And you outboxed him. I mean, think about it. 40 to 47, 54, all the way up to 68, and you. That's right.

[A]

35 first, right?

[B]

That's right. That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. Going up from 35 to 68 and out boxing the champ. And the way you did it, too, it was so skillful. It was so beautiful to watch, man. When you. If you're a fan of skillful, intelligent boxing, that was such a good fight to watch because, you know, Canelo's a dangerous guy. He's a heavy puncher, and he. He puts a lot of power into his punches. He's. He's kind of changed over the years and really relied more on his power. But, man, he knows how to land it. And when he lands it, he puts people in a lot of trouble. And he just. There was. There was this one move that you were doing where you were throwing a left hand and then a quick hook behind it before you even brought the hand back. So he was going to counter and you were throwing a quick hook. I was like, oh, that is so pretty. That is so pretty. That's excellent.

[A]

To counter. You know, Canelo is a great counter puncher, you know, so you gotta beat him to it. You gotta counter to counter at times.

[B]

Did that fight play out the way you thought it was gonna play out?

[A]

Yeah, most definitely.

[B]

Exactly the way he thought.

[A]

Most definitely. We knew what we was up against. You know, when I went to his fight against Berlanga and against the guy that's on his team, I forgot his name. Munguia. Munguia. When I was with Turkey, I said, turkey, he can't beat me. Just watching him from 135 to now, like, live, I'm looking at him, I'm just like, I can beat this dude. Like, my confidence is getting more and more and more. And his last fight in Saudi Arabia, I was like, yeah, he can't fight like that against me, which he didn't. Which he definitely rose his game. But I just believed in myself that much that nothing was going to stop me from getting that victory.

[B]

That Night the fight in Saudi Arabia, he looked like under motivated. It wasn't a big enough challenge for him. He didn't look like he was in the same kind of shape physically. Like, when you look at him, he

[A]

wasn't, you know, and it happens, you know, that's why I always train like, this is the toughest fight of my career, because it is. Every fight is. And you never know what to expect with those type of fighters that nobody know about.

[B]

Right, right, right.

[A]

Them be the ones that sneak up on you and, you know, you gotta be ready for them. But he didn't come to fight. He moved the whole fight. And, you know, Canelo was frustrated, and he was just like, ah, man, this dude didn't come to do anything.

[B]

Right. He came to survive.

[A]

Yeah. So I could see where he was frustrated at.

[B]

Yeah, well, he probably thought he didn't belong in there with Canelo either. Right. You know, so he probably said, listen, if I just keep moving, I can get out of here with my dignity intact and just never get hit real good.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's. It's fascinating now because before that fight, you were looked at as one of the best boxers today. Now you're looked at as one of the best fighters ever. And it's interesting how that changes how people now look at your body, and then they look at Errol Spence before you fought him and go, errol Spence can fight, man. He's a really good fighter. And a lot of people discredited your victory over him because of that car accident that he had. And maybe he wasn't as good as we thought, and. But now with the Canelo victory, you. You're in this rare air of, you know, mentioned as one of the greatest of all time. You know, there's a handful of guys. There is no, it's very difficult to say the greatest of all time, because people want to go all the way back to Sugar Ray Robinson. They, you know, they throw Floyd in the mix, primetime, Roy Jo. There's all these different fighters they put as the greatest of all time. But you are now in that conversation. That's gotta be nice.

[A]

It's beautiful. You know, especially all the hard work that I done put in to be here at that pinnacle of the sport. You know, Since I was 7 years old, I've been boxing, I've been fighting. I've been a fighter since day one. So when people compare me to, like, Sugar Ray Robinson and Floyd Mayweather and Sugar Ray Leonard comparing me to who will win, who will win, that just let me know. That I did my job well in the sport.

[B]

Oh, you absolutely did. Now you definitely done, done.

[A]

It's over with.

[B]

It's definitely over.

[A]

Yeah. I don't got. So I told a couple of my close friends, I said, okay. Since 2014, I've been fighting for something, a title. I won my first title in 2014, March of 2014. Ever since then, I've been fighting for titles. Undisputed Titles Undisputed. Undisputed Titles Undisputed. Like, just everything that I've been fighting for, now I just come back and it's just like, all right, what's the motivation? Just money, you know, like, all right, so what. What is on top of that? You know, because my thing was the money gonna come. No, I was taking pay cuts after pay cuts at the pay cuts. Because I knew what I wanted my legacy to be. When I finished boxing, I want to be remembered as one of the greatest champions of all time, you know, and I think I did that, you know, so now it's like this last fight that I had, the height of it, there's no better finish than that to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What was on the line, coming from where I came from, all the odds that was stacked against me, all the things that I had to go through and camp to get to that fight, you know, it was just like, man, you did everything right. So what can top that?

[B]

I love that. I love when fighters go out on top like that. And for a fighter to go out like you have, with all your championship experience, all the weight classes you competed in, undefeated, and beat Canelo another all time great, I mean, that is a perfect finale for a spectacular career. That's pretty dope, for sure. And go out with your faculties intact, your health intact, plenty of money. It's nice.

[A]

It's beautiful. Because nobody knows what us fighters adore to get to the point, to entertain the fans, you know, we go through a lot. You know, we put our body through a lot. And then when it's all said and done, when our body broke down to the point where we can't take care of ourselves, they don't care about us. They go and say, oh, well, he was once a good champion. And we go to the fights. You see a lot of old fighters showing up to the fights, and people just walk past them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, they own to the next. Oh, let's see the young fighter, you know, and it's like they use you up till you have nothing left, Then they forget about you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, so it's very critical for These fighters to think about their health first. Because once it's over with, it's over with. And you can't get your health back, you can always get money elsewhere, but once you can't, your mind is messed up. Yeah, it's over with.

[B]

That's such a good lesson for young fighters to see, too. To see a guy like yourself be fully dedicated, so disciplined, get through the whole thing, get out on top and done.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so many fighters have said that, and then a couple years go by, their identity is wrapped up in fighting. They go, man, I think I got one more in me. And then, you know, maybe they're buying a lot of shit. That's the real problem.

[A]

Yeah, it's always going to be that, you know, I got. I got another one in me. I got another one in me. I mean, because they miss that high of all the fans chanting their name and everybody, you know, cameras, lights, and, you know, they miss it, you know, But I was always that type of person. I didn't care about all that, really. Y' all can have the lights, just pay me, and I go under the rock somewhere, you know, take care of my family, you know, I never was a guy that wanted to be all up in the media and wanted to be the center of attention.

[B]

How come?

[A]

Cause that's just me. I already knew what I was doing it for. I never was doing it to be famous. You know, I don't walk around with a whole entourage to get noticed. You know, I be under the radar.

[B]

I do like that you show up by yourself, but one time you showed up at one of the UFC's and someone said you were Kendrick Lamar, and they put it on the fucking screen. And I didn't catch it because I was doing the broadcast, but I was like, are you guys out of your. You don't know who Terence Crawford is and you're in combat sports? This is crazy.

[A]

I think they did it on purpose.

[B]

No. No way. No way. No, no, no, no, no. It was just some moron in the truck.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

No. 100%. They did not do that on purpose. No one in the UFC would ever disrespect you like that. No one would disrespect you like that. No chance.

[A]

Yeah, I was sitting next to terrified, and I was like, did they really just do that?

[B]

No, they did not do that on purpose. That was just some dumbass that thought that you were Kendrick Lamar for some reason. Yeah, it was so stupid. And then I think they corrected it later in the broadcast. I don't know who it was, right? I didn't want to know. I'd yell at him. But this episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Big news. Aldi is now on UberEats. And you get 20 off your first grocery order with the code new Aldi 26. So whether your fridge is empty and you're too tired to shop or you just ran out of essential ingredients in the middle of meal prep, don't worry. Fill your fridge in just a few taps and get 20 off your first Aldi order on UberEats. For orders over $60, you can save up to $20. Ends February 28th. Terms apply. See app for details. But that's. You roll very low key. Like, you don't show up with an entourage. You know, a lot of times you're just by yourself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and that's unusual for a guy who's achieved as much as you've achieved.

[A]

Yeah. People would be so, like, surprised that, you know, they'll see me in the airport. They'd be like, you by yourself. Like, man, this is crazy. I would always imagine you with security guards, big entourage.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's just a bill. Yeah. You know, you got to pay all them people to be around you.

[B]

That's true, too. Yeah. I mean, every time you've showed up at the studio, you show up by yourself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, it's. That's another good example for young fighters to realize, like, at the end of the day, what are you really doing it for? All that other bullshit, all the attention and stuff, that's. It's very temporary. It's very fleeting. It goes away. Legacy. Legacy. And the glory of your accomplishments, that stays forever. And the respect of people in boxing that really know.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Yeah. That's what. That's what it's all about. And you've got that now. Everybody has to shut the fuck up.

[A]

Yeah, they do.

[B]

Everybody has to shut the fuck up. Even the people that said that, oh, Canelo, stop. You were the same people saying Canelo was gonna stop him.

[A]

You're the same people that saying Errol Spence was gonna stop me. Same people that saying Magemoff was gonna stop me. Yep. And so forth. So it just got to the point where they just. They can't. They gotta accept it now. It's like, man, I've been hating on this dude for so long, you know? And he's just been proving me wrong. Time at the time, it's like, let me just give him his flowers.

[B]

Forget it.

[A]

You know?

[B]

That's beautiful. And for Young fighters, it's such a good thing to watch. It's so good for young fighters to have an inspirational figure, to have someone who really does it and does it perfectly and does it in a way that is very unusual because, like, you're one of the best switch hitters since Marvin Hagler, if not the best, you know, and like that. God, that is such an underrated skill. It was so funny. One of the times you were in here, you were telling me that his coach, your coach, told you, stop doing that.

[A]

Yeah. He was like, you need to focus on fighting orthodox the right way instead of switching to South Pole. I was just like, all right, Switched southpaw again. Then it was just like. He was like, all right, well, you gonna do that? We gonna train like that? I was like, all right, let's train like it. Cause I'm gonna keep switching. Cause it just came so natural. Yeah, I'll be in there. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then I just switch, like, unthinking. Bop, bop, bop.

[B]

Yes, man.

[A]

You know, it was just, I win and I win. He was like, all right, we gonna fight. Like, we gonna train like that.

[B]

Well, it's such an underrated aspect of boxing, if you can do it because you have to recalibrate where everything.

[A]

You switch different angles, all that in

[B]

mma, it's become commonplace. In the beginning of mma, it was a lot of people would stand one way or the other. And now a large percentage of these young guys coming up are constantly switching because it hides combinations, it hides different techniques. There's so many different things you could do in MMA off a switch, because you're switching and kicking, you're switching and punching, you're kicking, and then now you're in southpaw, and you're throwing left hands instead of right hands. It's like things are come. There's so much overload of the mind where you have to calculate all these different things. And if you don't spar on a regular basis with a very crafty guy who switches a lot, it could you up inside the cage.

[A]

Yeah. Because some people, they have better chances on one side than the other, you know, and then when you switch on them, it's just like, off. I hate fighting southpaws.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, to just do something today, brain, you know, because they might be slower moving one way than the other way.

[B]

Well, everything looks so weird when all of a sudden, the jabs on the right side and then your brain has

[A]

to, like, got to worry about the hook now instead of the straight Everything's different.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's just, I mean, I wonder how many young fighters are going to see your example and start training that very early in their career now, because I think it's the conventional wisdom was that you have one stance, whether it's southpaw or orthodox, stick with that. There's a few outliers like Hagler, but for the most part stick with that. But I don't think that's the way to go. I think, I mean, I think great fighters have stayed in one stance, but I think the way to go is having the ability to switch up.

[A]

It's always, you know, beneficial. If you can have it and not need it, then the need it ain't got it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, like, okay, it's cool that I don't need it for this fight, but I got it in my bag just in case I have it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, and that's like me. I got it all.

[B]

Yeah. Do you think you're gonna train people when you're done?

[A]

I be training a little bit. I be helping out at the gym, but my patience ain't there yet. Like, I get frustrated and I have to remember, like my coach Bomac say, everybody's not you, bud. Everybody don't adapt like you. Everybody not as athletic like you, you know, so you can't be frustrated if they not getting something right, like as fast as you getting it. You been doing this since you was seven. Some of these kids that started when they was teenagers, you know, so you gotta give them grace, you know, and take your time with them. And some of them, you know, they flat footed and you just gotta train them into they style. Everybody not gonna have your style. So when he explained that to me, I was just like, yeah, you right. You know, let me back up a little bit and just tell them what I see.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, more so than trying to coach them into being this fighter that I want them to be being a version of you. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That's gotta be difficult, right, because everybody does have a different style. And, you know, you're never gonna convince some fighters to fight your way. But the wisdom that you can bestow on young fighters, it's like there's a lot of great fighters, like, you know, Freddie Roach, that had some boxing matches, but was never like an elite boxer, but still was a great coach. But to have an elite fighter to be a coach, it's like there's an element of that. First of all, there's an element from the young guy coming up, like, you want to impress you got Terence Crawford in your corner. You want to impress him. Buddy McGurk did a fantastic job and he became a great trainer. There's a bunch of fighters that have done it, but it's like, I always wonder because I feel like there's so much you have to offer to these young. There's so much small minutia, intimate details of what you're thinking and what's going on, that. That would completely change the way a young fighter sees certain exchanges.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. And I try to help them on that aspect when they in the ring or when they on the bag or when they hitting the mids. Shadow boxing, Just little details. You know, I come in the gym and you see the little kids, they see me and they look. Look to the corner and they hit the back.

[B]

Yeah. They get fired up.

[A]

You can see they trying to get my attention. I come over there, then give them some little wisdom, you know, and they appreciative. But it's good that they see me in the gym all the time. You know, my son wrestling next door and they over here boxing, and I'm both one side and the other side.

[B]

So your son just won a wrestling title?

[A]

Yeah, he just won state as a freshman.

[B]

That's incredible. Yeah, that's incredible. That's so amazing. Does. What does he want to do?

[A]

He want to go D1. He want to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He told me Saturday after the tournament, we on our way to the Ryan Garcia fight. He said, dad, I want to go to the Olympics.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I said, you want to? Said, what kind of mind state is that? I said, you gonna go? I said, you gotta have it in your mind, you going. You can't say you want to go. You gotta say, I'm going to the Olympics. That way, you know, you already programming it, you know, for the future.

[B]

How did you learn that mentality, man?

[A]

Being doubted my whole life, you know, Being doubted my whole life. And my coach, Midge Minor, used to always say, la di da di. We fight anybody. They ain't fought you yet. You know, and I just carried that on my shoulders like anybody you put in front of me. They ain't fought me yet. So you can't tell me they can beat me until they beat me. So just like my son, like, hey, you gotta have that confidence that whatever you say you wanna do, you gonna go out and do it. But you gotta put the work in first.

[B]

So in that sense, doubters give you fuel.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[B]

There's a lot of people like that. A lot of People like that, they live off the haters.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. They fuel me up. And then especially when it's crazy, because, like, Magemoff and Canelo, they were so respectful, you know, And I respect them. You know, I've been a fan of Majemoff, you know, coming from Uzbekistan and learning about him and hearing about him. And I always been a fan of Canelo, like, since I could remember, you know, So I didn't have that, like, killer, like, mind, like, heart in my heart. Like, I wanted to beat him. But, like, my other fights, I was like, man, I wanna knock this dude out.

[B]

Like, Benavidez.

[A]

Yeah, I wanted to knock him out. So, like, even in training, like, I didn't have that rage. Like, this dude talking shit, like, they never got under my skin. It was like, all we respectful. So it was like, all right, I wanna whoop they ass, but I didn't wanna inflict pain. I wanna knock him out.

[B]

There was one fighter you fought at 140. His name is escaping me. But you stopped him in the fifth. Yes.

[A]

Yeah, I wanted to knock him.

[B]

Oh, boy. Yeah.

[A]

And I was so mad, like, when you. When you watched that fight, you know, I missed, like, when they stopped it, I missed, like, two crazy hooks, and I just was like, man, why couldn't I land them? Like, he would have went to sleep. Like you were happy.

[B]

Just stopped it.

[A]

I want to put him to sleep. But, you know, it's a sport, and it is what it is, and I'm happy that we all could go home to our family and talk about it, you know, years down the line.

[B]

Yeah, well, that is the danger of the sport. That's why it's so different than every other sport. It's like you legitimately putting your life on the line.

[A]

Yeah. And a lot of people don't understand that until something happen. Right. You know, us boxers, a lot of boxers have died in that ring. A lot of boxers have went in a ring one way and left it a different way.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, so when a lot of fans, they criticize boxers for doing what the sport is for, and that's boxing. You know, us boxers like you, not in here getting your brains beat out. So what you consider boring, we consider us doing what the sport is meant to do, is box.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, And I think a lot of fans don't give. A lot of fighters, they just do for boxing, you know, like Floyd, like Shakur, you know, when they pure boxers.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, they want to see people bleeding, battered, knocked out, you know, but they not Thinking about the aftermath and the after effects of them. Fighters going to the hospital, blood on the brains, pissing blood and things like that. Like, your body is not meant to be beat on like that. Right. You know, so they just looking at, oh, well, I paid this money. Y' all gonna go in there and kill each other, you know, And I think that's wrong.

[B]

Yeah, well, you're always gonna have morons in this world. You're always gonna have casuals. You're always gonna have people that don't appreciate what they're seeing. But, like, when I see a performance like Shakur versus Teofimo, that last fight, like, that was art. That was art. That sneaky jab where it was like half speed and then popping him with the jab, and you could see Lopez just couldn't get out of the way of it. He know what to do. It was beautiful. It barely got hit.

[A]

Yeah, it was beautiful and things like that. You know, you see two high caliber fighters, but you just see one just on a different level because of his boxing iq, you know, not because Teo Fimo didn't belong in the ring with him. It's just that Shakur IQ and his boxing ability is up here.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, he didn't have to sit in front of him and trade shots and give Teofimo the opportunity to land a good shot and change the outcome of the fight. One shot. I don't care who you is in a good. In the right spot at the right moment. Anybody can get knocked out.

[B]

Without a doubt. Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, the human brain is not designed to get punched.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's just not designed that way. Especially big punchers. And when you see a guy like Teofimo. Teofimo can crack. He's a big dude, and he's a world champion. And it was one of the most lopsided performances ever where you see one world champion challenging another world champion for sure. I mean, it was. It was art to me. I was. Every moment of that fight, like, up until the 12th round, I was just like. There was multiple times I was like, oh. Oh, my good. It was just beautiful. It was just. I love watching a guy at the pinnacle, you know, watching a guy where everybody else has gotta go, wow. I didn't think it was gonna go like this because, you know, Tfimo's a super aggressive guy, beat Lomachenko. He's got a nasty jab, throws big power in his punches. He's tough as hell. You know, a lot of people like this is gonna Be a tough fight. And Shakur just. And he didn't run. He stood right in front of him. That's the other thing. He wasn't getting hit, and he was right in front of him. I mean, that was art. That was art. That's boxing at the highest level. And I'm fascinated because now they're talking about him and Ryan Garcia. I am fascinated to watch that fight, because that's a. Shakur is a different animal. Brian looked amazing in that fight. I mean, he looked amazing. I mean, he looked so fast, and it was beautiful fight to watch, but that's an interesting fight. I like that fight. Shakur and him. I like that fight a lot. Because Shakur's just a different animal. You're dealing with a whole different kind of skill set.

[A]

Yeah, Shakur, Listen, I went down to camp before he fought tfimo, and I seen his focus and the level of, you know, intense training he was doing, and I said, I don't know it all, but I know Shakur gonna whoop Teofimo's ass. I tweeted that way before the fight, you know, and he went out there and did it. Ryan looked spectacular in this fight for what it was. I don't think Barrios came to fight. You know, Brian was boxing great. You know, the jab was working. Overhand right was working. And he looks out at me at the end and said, you see my jab? I said, man, it was working. That jab was beautiful. Because we don't. We're not used to seeing Ryan jab right, you know, or his right hand or boxing, for that matter. You know, he was. He was boxing beautiful.

[B]

Beautiful.

[A]

You know, and I commend him on that. Like, he. He aced it, you know? But when it comes to Shakur, Shakur is not a Barrios. You know, Shakur got a jab. Shakur got head movement. Shakur got defense. Shakur knows range. Shakur have good legs. So I look at that fight, like, it's not going to be as a competitive fight. Like, everybody think, because if Ryan get careless, he's going to get countered all day.

[B]

If he gets careless, I think he'll fight very different than he fought with Barrios.

[A]

I think he's got to.

[B]

Barrios just couldn't keep up with the speed. I mean, Ryan's speed is extraordinary. He relies on it a lot. But, I mean, that's not a knock. That's just like, if you had it, you. Everybody should rely on that, man. Shakur's not slow. Shakur's A different animal.

[A]

That's what I'm saying.

[B]

Well, a lot of people thought Devin Haney was different though, right? A lot of people thought Devin Haney was going to give him real problems. When he dropped Devin early with a left hook, everybody was like, oh, this is different. I wish he didn't have a positive drug test in that fight because that fucking tainted everything.

[A]

They know, they know each other far too well. I think him and Devin fought each other the most out of all of them. You know, Shakur and Ryan fought as well, which Shakur won all the times that they fought. But I just think, you know, him and Devin, the history of it. Devin came in there overconfident. Ryan, you know, been juiced up, you know, added a little whatever it did. But, you know, you can't take away from him landing the punches that he was landing. You can't take away from the performance that, you know, he was, he was doing. But when you, when you on steroids, that add too.

[B]

It definitely adds something. What was he, what did he get popped for? Do you remember?

[A]

I don't even know. I just.

[B]

Jamie, find out what he got popped for. It was a very low level of whatever he got popped for. And a lot of people say, oh, the levels, it doesn't. Wouldn't even matter at such a small level. The problem is there's a lot of ways you can mask the amount of steroids you have in your system. And that's one of the reasons why The UFC banned IVs, because you can flush your body out if you super hydrate with IVs. I don't know what, what you're supposed to put in the IV, but there's some nutrients that you can put in IVs that will mask any traces of performance enhancing drugs. Which is why ufc, you have to hydrate. This is drug free sports policy and USADA's policy. You have to hydrate only with drinking liquids. You can't hydrate with an IV. And when you use an IV, which I don't know, were they allowed to use IVs to rehydrate?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

When you use IVs to rehydrate, you can mask a lot of shit. So if he did use an IV to rehydrate and he only showed a trace amount, that's still that. What did he, what did he test positive for? Lost.

[A]

Which.

[B]

Who I missed. Which fighter? You're talking about Ryan Garcia. Oh, that's right, Ryan Garcia. When he fought Devin Haney, the fight got overturned Right. It was a new contest, which is very unfortunate because it was a clear victory. One of his best victories ever. Dropped Devin, had him in trouble a bunch of times. Dropped him how many times?

[A]

A few.

[B]

Yeah, a few times. He looked great in that fight.

[A]

Yeah, he did.

[B]

And I think, unfortunately, you know, that positive drug test, just osterine. Yeah. Okay.

[A]

I think, you know, both of those fights is great fights for Ryan. Ryan is in a great position right now.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

You know, he got the roelly unification fight. You know, he lost to roelly. He got that fight that he can, you know, try to avenge in a unification fight.

[B]

Rollie looked great in that fight.

[A]

He got Devin in a unification fight. He got Shakur in a spectacular fight. So Ryan's in a great position right now.

[B]

If Gervonta comes back, he's got that rematch.

[A]

I don't think Javante is gonna fight him without having those type of claws.

[B]

The rehydration clause.

[A]

Yeah, bring him down. And you gotta do this and you gotta do that.

[B]

That's crazy. Those clauses are crazy. You can't weigh more than X. Fuck off with that.

[A]

That's like with me and Canelo. I'm like, man, listen, I'm challenging you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can weigh whatever you want. I don't want no excuses, you know, hey, it is what it is. All you gotta do is weigh 168.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and then before that. It is what it is.

[B]

Well, that's the same shit that Floyd made Canelo do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's where they got it from. Yeah, that's where they got it from.

[B]

You know, the thing is, these guys see that big number, they see those purses and they go, oh, I fight good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'll just get. I'll just get a little smaller beforehand. It's just not smart.

[A]

Yeah. Your body's not going to react when it's not fully hydrated.

[B]

No, not chance. It's the worst way to fight. You know, I think guys who cut a tremendous amount of weight, they do themselves a terrible disservice. They really do. I think it's terrible for your body. What's the most you ever had to cut?

[A]

The most I ever had to cut was probably like 25.

[B]

Whoo. That's a lot. What weight was at 35 or 40?

[A]

47.

[B]

47. Really? Wow.

[A]

My last fight was Spence.

[B]

And when did you start your cut?

[A]

Months.

[B]

Months out.

[A]

Yeah, months out.

[B]

So the week of the fight, what were you at?

[A]

Probably like 1 52, 54.

[B]

Oh, okay. That's very Good. That's very reasonable. See, MMA fighters do it in a fucked up way.

[A]

Them last couple of pounds is tough.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Them last couple of pounds of tough, and I just knew that it was over with. I knew it was over with, you know, but the hardest cut ever was when I was at 135. That was, like, killing me.

[B]

What were you walking around at back then?

[A]

Probably like in the 50s? Like 55.

[B]

And so would you just lower your calories in camp?

[A]

In camp, I gotta change my whole diet.

[B]

And then the week of the fight, what did you weigh when you were fighting?

[A]

35. I don't even. Man, I was cutting, like, probably, like. £7 the week of the fight.

[B]

See that? In the MMA world, that's nothing.

[A]

These guys are coming because they wait to the last minute. Yeah, I know. I know a lot of MMA fighters. Yeah, they wait to the last minute. But mine, I gotta start gradually because I never want to go in there and just, like, tank, right. So I gotta change my eating habits up months, like two months in advance. That way I can get my body used to being lighter and. Yeah. You know, performing at. At that weight class, because if not, you know, you. You doing more hurting yourself than good, because you're taking all the fluid out of your brain.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You know, and, yeah, I couldn't be at no disadvantage like that.

[B]

And it makes you more vulnerable to getting knocked out. Yeah, definitely. I mean, Alex Pereira was the craziest example in the UFC. He was fighting at 185, and he would weigh 225 when he fought, which is bananas. I mean, that's 40 fucking pounds.

[A]

I think that's why I got. When Not Canelo, when I fought Gamboa, when I got hurt, you know, in a ninth round. But I stopped him in the ninth round. But that was part of that. Boom. Caught me with a clean shot. Boom. I was like, oh, shit. You know, until this day, that's the only fight that I got hurt like that ever. You know, a lot of people thought Mean Machine dropped me. Mean Machine hurt me. I didn't got. Mean Machine hit me with some hard shots, some clean hard shots, but nothing was like that gamble. Like, my whole leg locked up, and I was just like, man, I gotta grab this dude. You know, And.

[B]

And you think the weight cut had

[A]

a lot to do with that?

[B]

Definitely.

[A]

Yeah, definitely.

[B]

What weight was that at?

[A]

135?

[B]

Yeah, 135. You're a big guy, man. That's a lot of weight to cut. That's the most problematic part of mma for sure. I was actually just having a conversation with Hunter Campbell about that. They're trying to devise strategies to discourage these big weight cuts and trying to figure out what to do.

[A]

It was crazy, though, because I always been skinny. You know, a lot of people, they say, oh, he's a weight bully. He's this, he's that. And it's like, bro, I came from 132. I wasn't at. You know, you see a lot of these fighters, they. In the amateurs, they like Sean Porter, he was at 165, then he went to 147. You know, a lot of people, they was heavier. Then they dropped weight. I was at 132, and I moved up to go at 135, you know, as a professional, and I was cool with the weight. Then I just started filling out. Once I start, you know, working out more and doing a little strength and condition, and I just started. My body started filling out, so I kept moving up. But the weight that I was at with Canelo, that's the most comfortable time of my career to be able to eat whatever I want, not focus on weight. Just.

[B]

Did you feel much better in the ring because of that?

[A]

I did. I did. Because that was the only time that I never, like, I had to eat to keep my weight on me.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And it's like, I'm not used to doing that. Like, I'm used to, you know, starving. We got portions. It's like, they feed me big meals. I'm like, I can't eat all this, you know, but. So that was the. That was the one camp that it was like, the weight wasn't an issue.

[B]

Do you have a nutritionist in camp? And so how do they. How do they do your meals? Is it all based on X amount of protein, X amount of carbs? It's all weighed out.

[A]

All of that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then they weigh you, check you make your body fat.

[A]

They ask me what I weigh in the morning, every morning.

[B]

What did you weigh, like, when you got into the ring?

[A]

I think I was, like, 72.

[B]

Okay. It's just a few pounds.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nothing. Yeah.

[A]

I don't. Wait. I didn't weigh. I. Probably a couple of pounds. Yeah.

[B]

The only difference in MMA is obviously the grappling, you know, and that's. It plays a big advantage if you can get a lot of weight on a guy. That's. That's why a lot of guys do it. It's also. MMA is very flawed, and one of the most flawed aspects of it is the weight classes. There's just not enough weight classes. There's giant leaps, like between 205. The next weight class is heavyweight, so it's 205 to 265, 185. The next weight class is 205. That's 20 pounds. That's nuts. Yeah. 170 to 185. 15 pounds is a lot.

[A]

A lot.

[B]

That's a lot.

[A]

Seven pounds is a lot.

[B]

55 to 70. Yeah. Seven pounds is a lot.

[A]

A lot of people don't know, but I was way stronger at 47 than I was at 40. And that's only seven pounds, right? That's seven pounds of muscle that I don't have to cut, right? Yeah. And a lot of people think, oh, it's just seven pounds or 135 to 140. Is this five pounds? Oh, that matters.

[B]

Yes, it matters a lot. And for fighters, there's a lot of guys that are tweeners. They're too big for 155. They can't make the weight, and then they're too small for 170. Yes, because at 170, you got guys that are never going to make 155. They're coming down from 210 and they're getting to 170, and they're jacked.

[A]

I know somebody that was coming out from 230, fighting at 165.

[B]

Oh, my God. Who was that?

[A]

Go say his name.

[B]

Well, Anthony Rumble Johnson was the craziest one that I ever saw.230. Anthony Rubble Johnson was 230, and he was fighting at 170. I ran into Rumble once. Rest in peace. He died a few years back. I ran into Rumble once when he was fighting at 170, and he was in between fights, and I ran into him at the hotel, and he was a fucking heavyweight. He was so big, I couldn't. I go, what do you weigh?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he said, 230. I'm like, dude, that's crazy. You have to cut 60 pounds.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it was killing him. It was killing him, like, literally to the brink of death the day before a fight. That's nuts. That doesn't make any sense. And they were all doing it because they all felt like they had to be the biggest guy in there. Yeah.

[A]

Not smart at all.

[B]

I think for mma, they really need to recognize this, that one of the things that's going to stop weight clots is give people more weight classes, give people more options. This idea of only Having eight champions, I think in MMA is very, very limiting. It's also limiting the potential of a guy like you to go up and up and up and win championship after championship. In mma, if you win two belts, that's crazy.

[A]

That's the only thing anybody classes is so far apart.

[B]

Exactly. It's the only. The only people that have ever done it have done it in two weight classes. No one's done it in three. You know, Pereira might try to do it at heavyweight. He might try to go up to heavyweight now because he's walking around like 240, which is crazy because he used to fight at 185. It's nuts. But if they had more options and they had more weight classes, I think we'd have more competitive fights, we'd have less extreme weight cutting, we'd have healthier fighters. Just more champions is better. There's a lot of guys that could be champions. There's a weight class for them. If there's a 20 pound gap, 20 pounds is so much. If I put 20 pounds of bone and muscle on this table and show you what it looks like, you'd be like, whoa, that's a crazy amount of mass. And the difference between losing that, gaining that, being in the middle of that, it's pretty significant. So for a lot of fighters, they're just. Their frame doesn't line up perfectly with whatever the division is. It just. They. They don't have a chance. Yeah, sucks.

[A]

It does.

[B]

It drives me nuts. It drives me nuts. Well, I think extreme weight cutting is the worst thing that's ever happened to the sport of mma and any sport, any sport. But in boxing, it's not as extreme. No one really does it. Jarrah McClellan used to do it. He got real big in between fights. Real big. He was. But that cost him in the Nigel Ben fight. I think that probably is what led to his bleeding of the brain. That's probably one of, one of the contributing factors to why he's, you know, he's. He's so hurt right now, you know, and that fucked Roy up too, because back at the time, that was his biggest rival was Gerald. And, you know, Roy was always like, I do not want that ever happening to me, you know?

[A]

Yeah, like, man, like I say, when you lose that weight and you don't understand you losing that fluid in the back of your brain, you know, and

[B]

it takes days for that fluid to fully return to your brain, especially when you're just drinking the water and not IV rehydrating, it's Tough.

[A]

It's tough.

[B]

Yeah, it's. But I mean, boxing's been around longer. They've got it figured out. And unfortunately, or fortunately, the UFC dominates mma and they only have eight weight classes, so. Everybody else only has eight weight classes. California has instituted a bunch of different weight classes, but nobody, The UFC has a heavyweight limit. You know how crazy that is? Isn't that stupid? It's stupid, right?

[A]

It definitely talk to these people. I'm just now learning about that.

[B]

You didn't know 265. You have to weigh 265. So think about Tyson Fury. When Tyson Fury fought Deontay, he was like 280, 285. Yeah. Imagine he's got to dehydrate himself. He's got to lose £20 just to make the weight class. That's doesn't make any sense at all.

[A]

At all.

[B]

At all. It's the heavyweight.

[A]

It's the heaviest weight we can go.

[B]

Remember value of when he was fighting Evander Holyfield.

[A]

Oh, my huge God.

[B]

He had to be over £300. He was giant. He was a literal giant. An actual giant. Yeah.

[A]

So I think that's something you need to talk to Dana about.

[B]

Nobody listens to me, bro. They don't. They don't listen to me. They think I'm crazy.

[A]

Well, we got to petition it then.

[B]

Oh, I have a bunch of wacky rules that I want to institute. So it's. I understand why they don't want to listen to me. I would throw the whole sport up in the air.

[A]

I think it. These combat sports, it got to come from the fighters, you know, just like boxing. I think if the. If the fighters come together, they can make anything happen. The fighters don't understand the level of power that they carry because they think, oh, since they cutting the check, they got the power, right? You know, but they can't cut the check without us, you know, but it's the fighters that need the money that makes it hard, right? Because the fighters that already got the money, they can make a stand for something. But the fighters that doesn't, they like, well, you can do that. I gotta provide for my family. You can take a chance of going at the organization for a year or however long it's gonna last, but who gonna pay my bills, right? Who gon put food on my family table while we doing this, while we making this stand? So it's a little tougher for them to make that stand than a person that's already established.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, and I think that's where you Know, the. The seesaw effect happens with, with boxing and ufc because, well, UFC is more

[B]

extreme because it's really just the ufc. Yeah, it's really. I mean, even Francis Ngannou, right? Francis Ngannou, one of the most devastating fighters to ever compete in mma. UFC heavyweight champion. They couldn't get a deal signed. And he winds up leaving and goes to the pfl, but nobody's watching. Nobody watches, nobody cares. He knocked out some dude in the PFL and nobody cared.

[A]

Is he making more money? Yes, he care.

[B]

He cares. Well, that's why he did it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's all that matters a great deal with the pfl. And then he got to box. Boxed Tyson Fury, boxed Anthony Joshua.

[A]

Doing well.

[B]

Doing well. Much, much more money for sure, which is good. But the fortunate and unfortunate fortunate that the UFC is the best promotional organization that's ever existed. They really know how to do it. They do it right. They make stars out of these fighters. They give them all these opportunities. They get the most asses in the seats. Every pay per view sells well. When there's a UFC pay per view, people line up to see it. There's. There's a bunch of stars in the ufc, but unfortunately, when they're in other organizations, even if they're getting paid more, nobody knows who they are. And so if they want to come to the ufc, they have to be. They have to take a pay cut, which is crazy. So you're leaving an organ, like if you're going from small promotions in boxing, and then all of a sudden you're in a world title fight and you're in, or you're in, you know, golden boy promotions, you would imagine. Now I'm getting paid more money, more people are watching me, but it's not the case. Like, these other organizations like the PFL have to pay these guys more money because otherwise they can't get them at all. Because everybody wants to fight in the ufc. It's not a monopoly, because there is other options. There's one fc, there's pfl, there's some organizations in Russia and other parts of the world. But the reality is it's like the NFL or like, you know, Q tips. It's like, it's got a name. It's the NBA. Nobody wants to watch some new basketball organization. Nobody wants to watch that. I mean, the xfl. Does people watch it? I don't know, but it's not the Super Bowl. You know, it's like there's one big organization that's the NFL. There's one Big MMA organization, that's the ufc. And for these guys that want the glory, they want to be known as the best in the world, there's one place to be. So it's very difficult for those guys to hold out for more money.

[A]

It goes back to identity and what you're doing it for.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, that's what you gotta ask yourself. Is you doing it for fame? Is you doing it for. To provide stability for your family? Is it. I need money. Like, what is it gonna say? Yeah, yeah, definitely legacy for the greats

[B]

of the greats, legacy is the primary focus almost always. Greatness is always the primary focus, because otherwise you never achieve greatness if you're just thinking about money. I don't think those guys ever get to the level that you're at or the level that, like, the elite of the elite get. I think those guys have to have their eye on being the number one dog, period.

[A]

Facts. That's why I asked, what is you doing it for? Because Ngannou, you know, he. He's already famous, right? He probably like, okay, well, yes, If y' all gonna pay me X amount over here and they only gonna pay me this, then it makes business sense to go over here.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, and that's just like Connor Barron, he just signed with Zufa, and a lot of people was saying he's disloyal. And Eddie Hearns then was loyal to him and this and that and this.

[B]

He's getting 15 million for his lunch.

[A]

I'm like, man, what is people talking about? I said, it's just business. It ain't personal with them. I bet. I said, connor, Ben did what was best for him and his family. I said, just like the promotional companies gonna do what's best for them. And they business. If a fighter that they sign lose probably two straight, they get to cut him, no questions asked.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because now they wasting money. They feel they don't care about that person, family, they don't care about that person, you know, relationship with them. They not going in there with they heart, like, oh, man. Like, you a good buddy. They like, ah, sorry. It's just business. Cut you. So when a fighter does the same thing that a promotional company do or a manager or anybody else, it's all you disloyal. You this, you that. I'm like, make it make sense.

[B]

That's. It doesn't make any sense in boxing. Because in boxing, there's so many promoters, there's so many different people. Eddie Hearns, Bob Arum. This is so many different promoters. Don King. This is so many different promoters. That's the beauty of boxing, is that there's a lot of competition and there's a lot of people that are there to try to get you over onto their side. And there's cross promotion. There's no cross promotion in mma. It doesn't exist. They tried it a little bit in the early days. They sent some UFC fighters over to Japan to fight for Pride, and they brought some Pride fighters over into the ufc, but they don't do that anymore. That was the early days, because it was. The sport wasn't big back then. They were just trying to get big names, and they were trying to work a promotional deal. But Japanese, man, they're clever. Like, when they sold them Pride, they thought they were getting all the fighters. Turned out all the contracts were bullshit, that none of them were valid. They basically bought Pride for, I think they spent $65 million. And they got a library. They just got a video library.

[A]

UFC did.

[B]

Yeah, they didn't get shit. They didn't get Fedor. Fedor was the big dog. At one point in time, he was kicking everybody legs. I remember fucking everybody up, slamming them, arm, barring them, fucking people up, standing. He was complete. It was. And he was at the same time where Cain Velasquez was in his prime. And that was the fight that. That they tried to put together. But the Russians, because the UFC didn't have a contract with Fedor anymore because the contracts had pride, were all they. They had to deal with, you know, these Russian gangsters. And these Russian gangsters were like, you know, they wanted a piece of the promotion. They wanted a lot. And the UFC wasn't willing. It got very contentious. So the UFC had to up their security. It got. It got sketchy. Yeah, it got sketchy. You know, they're bad dudes. Those are bad dudes, you know, but it's just. As a fan, we were robbed. We were robbed of, like, one of the greatest matchups in the history of the sport.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's a few of those moments in combat sports where you've got these just top dogs where you're like, God, we got to see that happen for a while was Floyd and Manny, right? For a while. And after Juan Manuel Marquez knocked out Manny, it took a little shine off of that, and. And then eventually they fought, but Manny had a hurt shoulder, and now they're going to do it again. They're both 50. It's crazy.

[A]

You gonna watch it, though?

[B]

I'm gonna watch it. You? I'm gonna watch it. I'm gonna watch him fighting Mike. I think that's crazy. He's gonna have an exhibition with Tyson, which is crazy.

[A]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[B]

Mike is so much bigger than him. Yeah. So much bigger than him.

[A]

He's not gonna land a fist on Mayweather. Right. Not after his last performance. You know, I think Tyson just.

[B]

What do you think was going on with that? The last one, it looked a little bit like sparring.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know. I think it was scripted.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I ain't never seen Tyson biting his gloves and like, you could just. It was taking all that. He could not touch, like, hit him. He. And it was just like. It's, It's. It's heartbreaking to see a icon go out like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and.

[B]

But it's crazy also to see him fight at 57 years old.

[A]

Like, that's still like, he shouldn't have been in there at all. You know, I think it's other ways.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it's other ways for.

[B]

But what did he get? He got at least 20, right?

[A]

Yeah, but still, I think. But I think he needed that money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But with all his connections and things like that, I think people could have put him in the right position to make some money.

[B]

If he's got people with him that are looking out for his best interest. But you know how it is when there's a guy like that that's a big name, usually everybody around him pretends they're looking out for their best interest. But there's always lawsuits later on. You find out someone was stealing money or not paying him what he deserved. There's always a bunch of bullshit involved.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, unfortunately, especially if you're not business minded, which I don't know if Mike is, but most fighters aren't. Most fighters concentrate on fighting to be business minded. That's a giant distraction. You got to pay attention to all this other. On top of that, it's generally not how they think.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, I mean, look at Floyd. Like, Floyd spends money like it's a tap. Like he's got a tap. Just like unlimited amount of money. Money's just flowing. And even as much money as he's made in his career, which he's probably made as much, if not more money than any boxer ever. Like, there's all these lawsuits, like he hasn't been paying things and he owes money on this and owes money on that, and it's like. And then he's got to come out of retirement.

[A]

Yeah. That's tough. Yeah, that's tough. I think it's just the lifestyle that Floyd live.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I think he can't fathom to just live a modest lifestyle. It's like he gotta be lavish, right.

[B]

He's gotta have those videos where it shows you all the watches, where he opens the case up, you know, all the money.

[A]

You gotta show that he got a million dollars in his backpack. Yeah. You know, he got the latest watch and the latest car. And look what I just bought.

[B]

And when you get into latest watches and latest cars, you get into that shit like, boy, that money goes quick.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Bugatti's are like 3 million. There's watches that are 3,5 million. That's crazy. So you buy a watch in a car, you're down 10. That's nuts. That's nuts.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

I remember Iran Barkley was talking about that. Iran Barkley, when he was in his prime, was hanging out with all these professional athletes and everybody was getting diamond crusted chains and this and that. And he was keeping up with these people, like, you got to keep up with the Joneses. And he just found himself, like, draining all of his money. He was talking about it like that was the biggest detriment to him being able to save any money

[A]

they trying to keep up.

[B]

Yeah. Which I thought was funny. When I was listening to this conversation with Chad Ochocinko, he was talking about it. He was like. He was wearing fake jewelry.

[A]

But who would know?

[B]

What's that?

[A]

Who would know? He. Chad Ocho, Cinco. It's like when they look at him,

[B]

like flying economy, he was sleeping at the stadium, like, so he didn't have to pay for an apartment. So smart, so clever, you know? But that's a guy, like, preparing.

[A]

Nobody going to question him, you know? Oh, man, this NFL star, he got money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know. So we're not going to question if his diamond's real or not.

[B]

Well, you really can't tell, right? I can't. You can't tell until you get a magnifying glass on them or.

[A]

That's why they say we got these diamond tests. They wanna test your diamonds now. Like, come on now?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just all illusion anyway.

[B]

Do you fuck around with any of that stuff?

[A]

I got jewelry, but I'm not paying all that money for no jewelry. Yeah, no. We can get some sponsorships.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But me keep spending hundreds and millions of dollars on jewelry. Nah, that ain't me.

[B]

It's just not smart. Yeah. And you don't get out of it what it Costs. Like, if you think about how much blood, sweat, what sometimes you do, what do you get?

[A]

Now, if you buy from the factory now, if you get you a Rolex from the Rolex store, you know, you might can get some money back.

[B]

You can flip it. Yeah, that's true.

[A]

Now, bust downs. No. But if you get it from the actual store, the protect store, the Rolex store.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Them type of stores keep the box and the papers.

[B]

It's worth a lot of.

[A]

It's worth more money then it's an investment. But all them other ones, the chains and stuff like that. No, you don't never see a billionaire with no chain. No, you see it with a good watch, though.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

See it with a good watch.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. It's just the trappings of fame and also showing everybody that you have that money, the trappings of wealth, you know, competing with all this other. Getting your own private jet, all that stuff.

[A]

It's like I learned from them. I learned from them because the people with the real wealth, you don't know they got the wealth right. You know, they walk around plain Jane clothes, no nothing.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You know, but the people that have a little bit of money, they want you to know that they got a little bit of money, but they don't have the wealth. Right. So I'd rather be wealthy than rich any day of the week.

[B]

Yes. And sneak around.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And keep it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's the thing. Because a lot of what wealth is, is never having to worry about money. That's the big thing. Just have that money invested. Have that money making money for you. Don't spend it all on stupid shit. Live a modest life. Live a normal life. You're much better off, especially a professional athlete, because you have such a small window of time. I mean, a lot of men don't even make the real money until they're deep in their 40s and 50s or

[A]

the end of the 30s.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Look at Floyd when he fought De La Hoya, then he fought Gotti, then he started making some real money.

[B]

Yes. You know, but I mean, that's for a pro athlete, but for most of these, like, really wealthy business people, that. Most of them, unless they're tech investors.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Yeah. They're making their money later in life. And so you have all this opportunity to keep growing your wealth. But when you're an athlete, you got a small window of your prime. Your prime is essentially like maybe 20 years. Maybe 20 years. You can make money from 20 to 40. But one for a pro athlete, unless you're Tom Brady, 40 is the end. Or unless you're Bernard. Bernard was fighting at a world class level at 49, 50 years old, which is crazy, crazy, crazy.

[A]

But that's because he take care of his body 100. You don't put nothing super disciplined, never

[B]

gets out of shape, never puts any in his body. And also that mindset of what, what he learned when he was incarcerated, like that, like discipline is everything. Discipline, discipline, never knowing. You're never going back to that. Don't buy anything stupid. Don't be dumb with your money. Don't be done with your body. Take care of yourself. Never get out of shape. Always keep your conditioning up so when you go into camp, you're not struggling to get back in shape again. You're already in shape now. You're just working on your skills and honing everything to a razor sharp edge.

[A]

I think that goes to, like I said before, the people that you have around you, you know, that want to see you be successful and the people that you can learn from and the people that you can get advice from, you know, when they see you about to do something that you shouldn't do, they be like, hey man, we ain't doing that. Come on, let's go. Or they'll call you, be like, let's go run. I'm not doing nothing. Let's go jog or let's go to the gym or let's go eat some healthy food. People that want to see you be successful, not the ones that say, hey, let's go party. Let's go drink. Let's go do this.

[B]

Let's do cocaine.

[A]

You know, I think those, the people that you need to get from around you, 100. The ones that see you doing things that you shouldn't be doing, but that's cool with them seeing you doing that.

[B]

Yeah, that's also the problem with an entourage.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

These guys are roll with an entourage. You always got one dude who's up in that entourage. There's conflicts in the entourage between dudes and it's like you're managing a whole team of knuckleheads. It's like, oh, God, yeah. Just so they could roll deep. When you show up at a place, you have 30 dudes hop out of SUVs, like, oh, he's here, he's. Look at that group behind him.

[A]

I don't need none of that.

[B]

That's beautiful. That's a valuable lesson for young fighters to see your example. It's a. I'm glad you live the way you live. I really am. I really am. Because I think it's so important for guys to see. So let me ask you this. When you were training for Canelo, what did you do different? So knowing that you're going to be fighting at 168 instead of 54 or 47, what. What did you do different in terms of. Did you do anything different about strength and conditioning? How long did you prepare? Like, I know you were thinking about that fight for a long time, but, like, when you were physically preparing for it, knowing that you were going to be fighting him at 68, what did you do different?

[A]

To be honest, I ain't do nothing different, really. It's crazy. Like, all my fights, there's nothing different. You know, we trained for. Me, me getting sharper, what I need to work on, what I'm lacking in. But the only thing that I changed for the fight with Canelo is Chet, my strength and condition coach, he got me in February. He called me up, he like, hey, we gonna get this fight. He just kept saying, we gonna get it. So you need to be working out now. So this way, before I even got the Canelo fight. So I'm like, all right, so he'll come over to my house. We work out, we'll work out, we'll work out.

[B]

What kind of stuff were you doing?

[A]

Just strength work. Just strength work.

[B]

Like deadlifts. Like what kind of stuff?

[A]

Deadlifts. Strength condition, like deadlifts. Working on good legs and things like that. And just getting my body just, you know, back to where it need to be, you know? And he just like, man, you got to strengthen up your shoulders and things like that. And because quiet is kept. I had. Just had shoulder surgery.

[B]

You did?

[A]

Yeah. So I just. You know, there's a lot of things that I go through in training but I don't speak about because I don't never want it to be an excuse, you know, that's just one of the injuries that I was coming off of. But, yeah, he was just like, man, we gotta work, we gotta work.

[B]

What was the shoulder injury?

[A]

Labrum.

[B]

Labrum?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So did you get it sewed back up?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did you get stem cells shot in there at all?

[A]

No, no, no, no. I just had surgery on.

[B]

Oh, man, I wish I did it.

[A]

The front and the back.

[B]

I wish I talked to you about that. Could have got you in.

[A]

Yeah, I didn't get it on my left shoulder, so I tore both of them. Well, I tore my left in a gamboa fight.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you never got it fixed?

[A]

Never.

[B]

Is it okay now or is it fucking.

[A]

It still tore.

[B]

Really?

[A]

But the doctors say if it's not preventing you from working out, then they wouldn't advise me to.

[B]

Do you feel it? Does it bother you?

[A]

Sometimes, but not really. Like, it bothered me, like, sometimes, but, like, not crazy.

[B]

How long you down for?

[A]

I leave after this. Damn. But the right one. That was crazy. Like, it was hurting when I was sleeping after the Majimov fight.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah, after the Majimov fight. It was, like, throbbing. Then it was just like, man, we better get it done. But he was just on me, like, we gotta do physical therapy. We gotta do this, we gotta do this. And it was just like, all right, let's go. So he was just on me, and he was just speaking it into existence. He was like, man, you gonna get this fight. I can feel it. I can feel it. So, like, I started training for Canelo in February. I wasn't, you know, more so doing boxing workout, but I was just getting my body prepared to, you know, go to camp. And when I start back to go.

[B]

So strength work is like the basics, strength training. But, like, what kind of conditioning were you doing?

[A]

Oh, nothing different. Like running, swimming, things like that.

[B]

And you didn't try to put on any weight? Just tried to, like, be able to.

[A]

Weight is just tighten it up, you know, with the. With the strength work. Just tighten it up. That was it.

[B]

Damn. I wish I knew that you had a problem with your shoulder. I could get you back in town. There's a place called Ways to. Well, that I work with here that does stem cells. That. That helps so many fighters out. A lot of UFC guys come here. A lot of pro athletes come here. NFL guys come here just to get stem cells. It's like state of the art facility. It's really good. And it could help you. Yeah, just. I bet it could heal that labrum, probably.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Especially now because you're not going to beat it up as much anymore, obviously. I'm sure you're still working out. You look great.

[A]

No, I'm actually not.

[B]

Not working out at all. Nothing.

[A]

I've been chilling.

[B]

Hey, you earned it.

[A]

Hey, I've been putting on my time, kids, and just, you know, relaxing and not having to worry about running and waking up in the morning.

[B]

Did they offer you a rematch?

[A]

Nah, they didn't.

[B]

Because there was talk that they offered you a rematch, but you wanted 100 million.

[A]

Nah, that's a lot.

[B]

All Internet bullshit.

[A]

That was a lie. There wasn't even no rematch in the. In the contract, there was no conversation about a rematch. There still haven't been a conversation about a rematch. I've seen Canelo said that he won a rematch, but nobody has reached out to me and said, hey, Terrence, what you think about a rematch? Or anything like that? So let's put that out there.

[B]

Is there a number that. That would bring you back?

[A]

I don't know. Like, me personally, I can't say it is, you know, because you're just not compelled. Yeah, not at all.

[B]

Did it. Yeah, did it Perfect.

[A]

It's like, I'm not the motivation. I'm always motivated by competing and, you know, things like that. But like, when it comes to, like, boxing, it's like, I did it all right. Like, it's like I checked everything off the checkbox. So it's like it wasn't close. Right. You know, I beat him, you know, decisively. So what am I doing it for?

[B]

I think I might have given him one or maybe two rounds. More like one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was mostly. There was. I think it was like maybe the fifth. He had a really good fifth round.

[A]

Yeah, the fifth round. He had a good fifth round.

[B]

Yeah. But other than that, man, especially the ninth round. Woo. Woo.

[A]

And he headbutted me. He headbutt me on purpose.

[B]

Did he?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes. I was like, man. And he was like, sorry, champion.

[B]

I, like, he just got a little angry. A little frustrated.

[A]

Yeah, a little frustrated. But it's a fight. Like, anytime I'm in a fight, I don't complain about nothing. If somebody hit me in the back of the head or they hit me below the waist or anything like that. I never complain because I'm so aggressive. I'm like, it's a fight. You know what I mean? Like, they trying to do whatever they can to win. It's up to this referee to step in, because if he don't, then I'm going to take matters in my own hands and I'm going to do the same thing. So I don't complain. I'm just like, bam. I was a little frustrated, and I was like, man, all right, all right, breathe. Let's get back to work.

[B]

Yeah. Don't lose your composure. Yeah, that's the problem with getting angry, right?

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

But yeah, that ninth round, that's when you really start separating.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You really started pouring it on. I was wondering if you're gonna stop him. When the ninth round was going over, when you were cracking them with some big shots, I'm like, Whoa.

[A]

So I told my coach when we was in there, he was like, you don't gotta do that. Cause they know me and I'm like, man, I can go for it. And you know, and it's just like, they just know me, they know my demeanor and they was like, you don't gotta give them a chance. Just keep doing what you doing. You boxing the shit out of em. You winning hands down. Don't give them a chance. You don't gotta box him. You don't gotta do that. You winning. So it's just like me wanting to listen to my coaches all the time because that's. I have that much faith in them. If they tell me to go out there and use my jab the whole fight, that's what I'm gonna do. Because that's the belief I have in them, you know, And I just like, alright, the last round I was like, all right, let me win this round and separate myself, you know, And I felt like I hurt him bad in that round.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, but it's boxing.

[B]

Yeah, well, he's got a crazy chin. Yeah, he's got a crazy chin. I mean, it's, it's something unusual.

[A]

No.

[B]

You don't think so? No.

[A]

They say redheads is hard to knock out. It's proven. Yeah, I googled it. What is they call gingers? Yeah, Gingers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I promise you, when you look, they

[B]

have a higher pain.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When you look it up. I looked it up. Cause my cousin, she's a nurse and she said, yeah, them gingers, they hard to put to sleep even when you giving them the aesthetics to go to sleep.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. Interesting anesthesia.

[B]

Redheads often possess unique pain profile, generally exhibiting a higher threshold for specific types of pain, like heat or pressure, but requiring 19 to 20% more general anesthesia. Wow. Or higher. 19 to 20% is a lot. Or higher doses of certain anesthetics to reach the same level of comfort. That's crazy. Largely due to the mutated MC1R gene, which affects nerve sensitivity, can lead to increased sensitivity to pain and paradoxical increased sensitivity to some opioids. Interesting. Interesting. Increased sensitivity to opioids is interesting.

[A]

When she told me that, I googled it and I was like, damn, this. Why Canelo? You know, I mean, it could take so many good shots.

[B]

Yeah, that does make sense. Well, you know, Neanderthals supposedly had red hair, so maybe like redheads have more Neanderthal genes.

[A]

Probably.

[B]

You know, the Neanderthals were brutally strong. I wonder if that's where it comes from.

[A]

I thought she was playing at first.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

She was like, man, will we be trying to put them to sleep? It'd be. It'd be harder to put them to sleep than normal people. So I started Googling and I like, right.

[B]

19 to 20% is nuts.

[A]

That's a lot.

[B]

That's like, the difference between killing someone and them just going to sleep. Like, you give them an extra 20%, they might not wake up.

[A]

Facts.

[B]

That's crazy. 19 to 20% is wild.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, I was talking to Jim Lampley, and I didn't know this, but Canelo has always been riding horses since he was young.

[A]

That's good for his balance.

[B]

Yeah, Legs. And the legs. Yeah, it's his base. Yeah, that's. That's a big part of it. Also, he's got that thick neck, big

[A]

square head, like you've been doing an iron neck.

[B]

Says Neanderthals have a different mutation that actually gives them more sensitivity to pain. Interesting.

[A]

More human.

[B]

Most humans. Interest. More sensitivity. Yeah. Lower threshold. Interesting. That's like the opposite. Wow. Even though they're redheaded.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So he ain't one of them.

[B]

It's one of those Mexican redheads, right? Yeah. It's wild. That's crazy. But, yeah, I never thought the horse thing, like Lampley was explaining. It's like, yeah, the balance and the. The legs, because you're. You're constantly squeezing down on that horse and you're constantly adjusting and your core and everything. Like, oh, I never even thought of that. I would just think, why are you riding horses when you're a world champion? Don't do that. People fall off horses. They break their fucking neck. Don't do that.

[A]

Yeah, I seen a guy break his arm. They wanted me to take a picture on the horse. And my bro Manny was like, man, I don't know about these fucking horses. These horses be crazy. I said, man, I rode horses before. He was like, yeah, but it's a lot of people around, and he asking the guy about the horses, and the other guy was like, yeah, he can get on this horse. So I get on the horse, I take the horse, I take the picture, and I get off. No longer than, like, 10 minutes. This guy on his own horse, his horse just buck, go crazy. Buck him off. Boom. He broke his arm. This in the parade, and the horse is just running wild. I'm like. He said, see? See, this is what I was telling you. He was going crazy. He was like, see, I told you. Yeah, but it wasn't the same horse. It was a different horse. Yeah, but he was just like. See, that's why I was telling you. These horses be crazy.

[B]

Yeah, you just never know with animals. You just. My oldest daughter got into horses for a while. One of her friends used to do those things where, you know, they, the horse jumps over a thing like, you know, they have like a whole obstacle course and she was getting into that and she fell once and she was okay, and then she fell a second time. She hurt her wrist pretty bad. I was like, honey, you gotta stop. You can't be doing. This is too dangerous. Because like those kind of injuries you get falling off a horse, especially if you get stomped, those are life changing.

[A]

Especially if you get tied up. Tied up. Oh, I didn't seen videos of people getting buck in their legs. Oh, they just a rag dog beat

[B]

up getting stomped in the head. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, horses, that, that. I. I know quite a few people that have fallen off horses and been okay, but like, like why, why do it?

[A]

Yeah, no.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Texas Ranger.

[B]

Everybody wants to be cowboy. They watch Yellowstone too many times.

[A]

Everybody want to be a cowboy.

[B]

It's funny, we were talking to Andre Ward on the phone today when you had Andre on FaceTime and you're talking about burbls. Yeah, but I've been going down this Berber rabbit hole. Those, those mastiffs, I'm. I'm fascinated by them, man. The South African massifs, they used to keep lions on hyenas away from the farms, you know, and we were talking about coyotes. Like, you got land now. You know, you're just, you're relaxing now. So I like it. Separated from everything, got some space.

[A]

Yeah, I bought. It's crazy because when I was building a house, you know, a lot of people was like, oh, he, he's building a house on the aerospence money and this and that and this. I'm like, dude, do you know how long the process is of building houses? Like this is not no week or two month deal, you know what I mean?

[B]

It's years. Yeah, like that's from design to the beginning of construction.

[A]

It's years. Yeah, for sure. You gotta go pick out every fucking thing in the house. You know, I bought that land in 2016.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Wow. And I just was sitting on it. It was a house there already, you know, I had it rent out to one of my buddies, my best friend at that, you know. And when the time came, I had more kids. So, you know, it was better that I waited than to build Then so I just was like, man, it's time. You know, it's more peaceful out there. The kids, they ride the four wheelers out there where we can shoot out there.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

We can do whatever we want out there. And it's just, you know, peaceful to wake up to the sunrise and, you know, the. The nature caller.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Ain't nothing like it.

[B]

That's the dream.

[A]

It's definitely the dream.

[B]

Yeah. For a lot of people. That's nice. That's nice. It's nice to see someone just setting their life up right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I'm just amazed that you don't get the itch at all.

[A]

I'm more competitive in other sports, you know, like, what, Basketball, football. I'm anything. I ain't gonna lie. Anything I do is like, I gotta compete. I gotta compete. Darts, pool, like, whatever. You remember I came in here like, you wanna play pool? You're like, let's do it. I was like, nah, I'll just play. You can't kick my ass on camera. I heard that. You was good.

[B]

I fucked Lennox Lewis up. Yeah, he was talking a lot of shit. Lennox Lewis never got a shot. Yeah, I ran two racks on him and he was like, we're done.

[A]

Yeah. I came in here pump faking you. I already know it. Yeah, I just like to have fun, you know.

[B]

Well, everyone who is an elite athlete is insanely competitive.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, that's the problem, though, is unfortunately, some of them get involved in gambling. You know, like, that's the. Michael.

[A]

That's what we were just talking about, me and Dre. He was like, you gamble? I said, man, I ain't never gamble.

[B]

Good for you.

[A]

A lot of people was always asking me why you don't gamble in your fights. I'm. Nah, I don't gamble at all.

[B]

Good for you.

[A]

You know, they was like, oh, well, we see you when you. When you gambled on the streamer, you know, Aiden Ross, I said, that was only because he called me out with my brother.

[B]

What did you do? What was that?

[A]

He bet me 10,000 that Teofimo was gonna whoop Shakur.

[B]

Oh, that's a crazy bet.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

So it was just like, that's a silly bet.

[A]

He called me out on live, you know, stream. So I. I'm never gonna back down from that. Like, of course, I'm riding with Shakur till the wheels fall off, you know,

[B]

that's also like, if. If I was making odds, I'd put him like a six to one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like that's a crazy, flat out bet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're not even getting any odds on the money and you're putting it on. T. No disrespect to tfimo, but I think that Shakur is. He has the potential to be an all time great.

[A]

Yeah, he will be.

[B]

I believe so.

[A]

He will be. All he gotta do is keep doing what he doing, stay focused, and that's it. It's just with fighters like Shakur, Devin, it's all about staying focused. You know, when these young fighters get to the pinnacle of boxing and they got everything at their disposal, sometimes they get caught up in a the limelight and the things that really don't matter, you know, as long as they stay focused and keep their eye on the prize of where they want to go and where they want their legacy to land, they're going to be just fine. Because it's easy for them to get caught up and want to be a fan pleasing fighter, you know, listening to the masses. Oh, they need to fight like this or I don't want to see them fight because all they do is run or all they do is fight like this. And they pity Pat. They ain't got no power. This and that. It's boxing. They winning. All they got to do is keep winning. That's it.

[B]

Well, look at Floyd later in his life, like, Floyd later in his life fought so safe, but yet made so much money because he talked so much shit for sure, that people were spending money hoping he was gonna lose.

[A]

And he's not the first one that did that. Tyson.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Roy Jones Jr. Yeah. Muhammad Ali.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And I always, I said this when I was with Tyranny, I said, why is it only the black fighters that gotta talk shit to, to sell? Like.

[B]

Well, in MMA, it's white fighters too. Conor McGregor.

[A]

No, no, no. Conor McGregor. You know, I say he wanted us, you know, because they was treated like black people over there. Where he from, you know, a lot of people don't know that.

[B]

Oh, yeah, A lot of Irish slaves,

[A]

you know, they was treated just like us. Sure. So, you know, I consider him one of us, you know. But at the same time, you know, in boxing, it's always the black fighters gotta be the ones that step out and play this circus role and, you know, be the one to talk shit and have everybody hate them. But the ones that don't, like Andre Ward, Terence Crawford, Tim Bradley, you know, they boring or they can't sell things like that. Is you judging me for what I say or what I do in the Ring.

[B]

Well, this is the difference with casuals versus people that really appreciate excellent boxing.

[A]

Cause I knock people out. Of course, that's what people want to see. They want to see action. I'm gonna give them action.

[B]

But I think for casuals, they want to see a lot of talking, too. For some reason, they want to get emotionally wrapped up in your conflict with this other person.

[A]

But they pick and choose.

[B]

They do sometimes. Yeah, they do sometimes. But I mean, like, look, Tyson Fury talks a lot of.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And obviously one of the greatest of all time, you know, talked a lot of shit, sold a lot of tickets, you know, singing and shit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

After the fights.

[A]

That guy's great in his draws and his draws in his cup. Legendary.

[B]

He's a legendary. He's a legend. I mean, that guy.

[A]

But he from a different country.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah. So, yeah, you gotta understand, like, he bringing those people over here, and they gonna support him. Win, lose a draw.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You know, when we went over to the UK and we watched Amir Khan fight Kell Brook, it was electrifying. And those guys had losses, being both stopped and all that, you know, but those people came out to support like a motherfucker.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[A]

And I left. And I left that arena like, God damn, man, I wish I was, you know, from the uk, you know, like. Cause the way they support boxing, they don't look at, oh, since you lost, you know, we not gonna support you. They look at, nah, these is warriors, and we not gonna stop supporting them because they lost.

[B]

That's true. That is true about the uk America,

[A]

they like, man, you got your ass whooped on to the next you're bum. You washed, you ain't as good as you said you was or we thought you was. And it's just like they. They chew you up and spit you out, and it's like, God damn, you know how hard it is to stay at the top of a sport that everybody's gunning from you? You know, that shit hard, like. Yeah.

[B]

That's the culture of America, though, right? It's a bit of a problem.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It disgusts me with fighting.

[A]

It's not like that in the ufc, though. It is not so much.

[B]

There's plenty of. Plenty of people. Well, the ufc, it's not as important to me.

[A]

I'm about to say. It's only like a couple of people in the UFC that was undefeated.

[B]

Very few.

[A]

You know, you got Khabib, you got Jon Jones, he had that one little loss.

[B]

That's a, you know.

[A]

Yeah, but everybody know that was a loss. My boy, My boy Suhudo, he. He just finally lost with not too long.

[B]

He lost a bunch of times. He lost to Mighty Mouse early on, then he came back and beat Mighty Mouse to win his first title.

[A]

But like most everybody else be having like five losses and stuff like that. And they be at the top of the top, you know, and everybody still support them, but don't nobody go, oh, he got five losses. He trash, he this, that. Nah, just that's true. Maybe it was off night, you know,

[B]

there's something to that because I think it's more difficult to not lose in mma. There's just too many different styles, there's too many different approaches, too many variables. And it's also so difficult to not be hurt in training before you fight. When you're grappling, kicking legs, elbows, all that, you do training jiu jitsu, you know, you're manipulating joints. There's so many different things that can get up. We think about all the things that get up. Just with your hands, just boxing. Shoulders back, knees.

[A]

Ribs.

[B]

Ribs. Yeah.

[A]

And neck.

[B]

Yep. Neck shorter. Yeah, yeah. And then add getting dumped on your head ad, you know, getting kneed in the face and getting your legs kicked,

[A]

knees buckled, toes broke.

[B]

Toes broke, Yeah. I mean, Pereira fought a world title fight with a broken toe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just came in and fought with it. And afterwards, toes all up, crooked to side and he like adjusts it, pops it in place.

[A]

Yeah, it's tough for them for combat sports, you know, and people don't know, like I said, they don't know what we go through. We don't never walk in a world class fight, you know, the same or 100% healthy. Like everybody just be like, oh man, I'm 100%. No, the fuck you're not.

[B]

It's not possible. There's always gonna be something that's bothering you. If you're going through a 10 week camp, how is it even possible to

[A]

not do something if they bullshit? But it's going to show in the fight, right? It shows it a fight, but don't they?

[B]

Everybody always. Nobody says, I'm pretty fucked up going in this fight, but I'm hoping it works out. Nobody says that.

[A]

Nobody said that.

[B]

No, I mean, it's just, that's the game.

[A]

When they talked about my shoulder, you know, before the Canelo fight, I was just like, I don't know, tell them, hit me in both of my shoulders, you know, like it don't matter. Like my shoulder is healed. Like. Yeah.

[B]

How long did it Take before it felt 100% again after the fight. Really?

[A]

Yeah, because I got it on Halloween.

[B]

Oh, you got in October.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then how many months did you have to recover?

[A]

I fought September.

[B]

Whoa. Okay.

[A]

So that wasn't.

[B]

Not even a year. And when did you really start training hard again after the surgery?

[A]

Probably April.

[B]

Okay. That's a good amount of time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If people don't realize, like, shoulders is such a complicated joint. There's all this different movements, and it

[A]

still wasn't like, like 100% after I fought.

[B]

Because you didn't have your strength all the way back to. Even after you fought.

[A]

Yeah, like, it wasn't 100%.

[B]

So it wasn't 100 in the fight.

[A]

That's crazy. I always tell people, like, if you watch my jab and my hook in the Canelo fight, then watch my jab and my hook, my prior fights, you know, and Magemoff and Spence, you'll see the difference. Really? You know, but the blind eye wouldn't even notice it, right? You know, they would just be like, oh. But then when they.

[B]

But it still is effective.

[A]

Yeah, but. But then when they know, they be like, it wasn't as snappy, it wasn't as hard. You know, you kind of was just like landing out there. So that's just little key, little things.

[B]

But now it's 100%.

[A]

Oh, yeah, it's good now.

[B]

Wow. And the left one doesn't bother you? Really?

[A]

The left one? It bothered me when it's overused, you know, but like in a fight. Nah, I don't think none of that shit bothered me.

[B]

Do you have any plans to come back in town?

[A]

Nah, Nah.

[B]

Can we get you back in town?

[A]

You know, the only time I ever came here was this podcast. Never ever been here in my life, really, until I came here.

[B]

That's a great city.

[A]

Yeah. Julia always talked about it.

[B]

So many good restaurants, so many good places.

[A]

She took me to the college and all that and, you know, reminiscing. Cause she went to college here and she just love it here. So she like, this is the bars that we went to. This is this, this, and like, oh, Julie, your happy spot place, huh? She was like, I just love here. Well, why not move here?

[B]

It's a great town. I love it to death. But if you want to come back, I would love to get you set up, get your shoulder taken care of. It'll change your life. Stem cells, wild, man. It's crazy what it could do. Yeah, just regenerates tissue. Everything heals. Like within like, weeks. You start feeling better, you're like, God, yeah. Everything just feels looser.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

I've had so many friends that were like on the verge of getting surgery. Like, I don't know. Doctor says I need surgery, get stem cells. Everything's good. I had a full length rotator cuff tear. I went to the doctor six months after the stem cells, he's like, this is the craziest thing I've ever seen. He's like, that tear doesn't even exist anymore. It's gone completely healed. It's crazy. Like, stem cells are nuts, man. And they're getting better at it all the time. Like, it's just pharmaceutical drug companies fucking hate it. Surgeons hate it. Like, doctors hate it because it's going to. It's going to cost them money because there's a bunch of people. Yeah, there's a bunch of people that are going to get treated with stem cells that don't need surgery.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And afterwards they're like, oh, I'm good. Because the doctors, like, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And these doctors, the way they make their money is cutting you and they all want to cut you. And it's amazing how many different, especially soft tissue injuries, how many different injuries you can heal with stem cells. It's pretty remarkable.

[A]

My doctors tried to avoid cutting me.

[B]

Did they? Well, that's good.

[A]

So they waited all the way to.

[B]

That's a good doctor. You know, That's a good doctor.

[A]

Till it was like, we got to.

[B]

That's after the madrimouth fight, right? Yeah. Well, I'd love to get you back in here because I really think they could, they could help that for sure. Yeah. Especially you got your whole life ahead of you now. You don't want, you know, you want that bothering you, fucking with you. You'd be able to do whatever you want. And especially now because you're not training hard. Oh, it'll heal good. Yeah, it'll heal because that's the problem. A lot of guys, they get the stem cells and they go back to training in a few weeks and they kind of. It's not 100% healed and they tweak it a little bit and you know. But now if you're not training at all, this is the perfect time to do something like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what is your plans now, now that you're on top of the world? You did it. What does it feel like?

[A]

I feel, man, like it supposed to.

[B]

Like it's supposed to.

[A]

It feels like it's supposed to. Like, a lot of people, they ask me, they say, man, how I feel? Like, how. How's the retired life? I'm, like, the same. Like, nothing in my life has changed but the people everywhere else congratulating me and things like that. But, like, far as, like, my living, you know, aspect of my life is the same. Like, when I'm fighting, training, you know, I'm focused on the fight, but after that, it's like, my kids, you know, the gym, things like that.

[B]

Do you have any interest in doing commentary at all? Because I think you would be great at that.

[A]

I'd be chilling. I don't be liking to be in the media talking, and you don't even

[B]

have to be in the media.

[A]

I'd be avoiding the media. I be avoiding, you know, how, like, some people, like, they want to be all up in the limelight and things like that. And, yeah, I just be. I'd be avoiding. They'd be like, terence, can we get in here right now? I don't want to talk. Yeah, you know.

[B]

Well, I appreciate you coming in here, though.

[A]

Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, But a lot of people ask me that. Do you want to be like all the other fighters and be a commentary, you know? Nah.

[B]

Good for you.

[A]

I'll be cool.

[B]

Good for you. That's going to help you so much. It's going to help you so much, because it's the people that crave that limelight. When it all goes away, then they're like, well, who am I? I thought I was special. I thought I was special, you know, I want to be the guy when, oh, he's here, he's here. You know, they want to be constantly in the limelight, showing up at red carpets, all that. I avoid all that shit, dude. I don't want to have nothing to do with that.

[A]

I know who I am, you know, internally, you know, so can't nobody tell me who Terrence Crawford is. So. I'm happy in my own skin. Always been happy under my own skin. And. And I believe that's how I got to the point where I'm at now when nobody believed in me, I didn't listen to them because I knew who I was all along when people told me I was a bad businessman. Okay, look at me now. When people told me what I should have did and what I shouldn't have done, and I did what I wanted to do. Look at me now. So now it's like, everybody, like, man, this dude was new all along. And it's like, yeah, Because I'm not a follower. I'm not gonna listen to people that's never done anything in their life and never took no chances or no risks to tell me what I can and what I can't do. So I'm happy in my own skin. I'm happy, you know, whether they chanting my name or whether they not. As long as my family love me and my family there and they good, they well taken care of, then that's the only thing that makes me happy.

[B]

That's beautiful. I hope young fighters that are inspired by you take that example. I hope they take that mindset and try to adopt it as their own. I really do. I really do. Because there's so many young fighters that just can't wait to be that person in the limelight, can't wait to be that person living flashy in front of everybody. And it's a foolish adventure.

[A]

It's temporary. It's temporary, and they don't understand that. Like, they only chant your name for a moment, you know, it's very temporary, you know, and they'll turn on you in a heartbeat, you know, just do something crazy or lose a match that you ain't supposed to lose or be up against one of your rivals and you lose, and then everybody gonna turn their back on you 100%, you know, and you're gonna be sitting there lost. Look at Broner. When he was at the top of the top, everybody was there.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

He had everybody in his corner. Now he at his lowest. Now they making fun of him. Now they taking pictures. And, you know, I. His.

[B]

He makes fun of himself, too, though.

[A]

Yeah, he do, but he. He's suffering.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, and I hiss him up and I try and encourage him, and I sent him messages, and I, you know, and you got to be there for people when they at their lowest.

[B]

That's great. He was a very talented guy. But again, that's what you said. Like, he's a guy who really got caught up in it.

[A]

That's a perfect example.

[B]

What's Gervonta doing now?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Is he on the run?

[A]

I don't know. I don't know nothing about that guy.

[B]

I think he's on the run. At least he was, like, recently. That's unfortunate. He's so fucking talented. He's such an unusual style, too, you know, Very economical, throws very few punches, but when he does, it's boom, explosive. Super, super explosive. I mean, this is a great time for boxing, though. It really is. It's an exciting Time for boxing. There's a lot of stars right now,

[A]

you know, and they fighting each other. That's the most important thing that I could say is the fights is being made. Whether you on this side or that side, the fights is being made. The promoters is working together within each other. So no matter what do you attribute

[B]

that to, do you think that's Riyadh season? Is that the Saddles? Yeah, of course.

[A]

Turkey came in, changed up the game. You know, he went to the fighters, you know, hey, I got this. I got this. We want this fight to happen. And the fighter is like, whoa, we know we not gonna get this, and nothing. Nobody would have never seen no B V better B if that fight would have never happened. Them promoters not gonna pay that money. You know, there are so many fights out there that the promoters would have never paid for Top Rank would have never paid the money that Turkey paid to see Shakur and Tio fight. Right. You know, so we got so many fights because of him, and we need to be appreciative of him, because without him, none of those fights would have happened.

[B]

100%.

[A]

The Canelo fight wouldn't happen for me. The Magimal fight wouldn't happen for me, and so so many more.

[B]

Absolutely. I think that's very exciting, that. But that's what the sport needed. It needed someone to come in with deep pockets that just said, let's make these fights happen.

[A]

And I think that's why, you know, boxing is on a rise right now. People is talking about boxing. More people is more supportive about boxing now, and people is tuned into not only Riyadh season shows, but all shows. Look at Clarissa.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

She just put on a hell of a performance.

[B]

Hell of a performance.

[A]

And it was rocking in that moment.

[B]

Yeah, it was crazy.

[A]

It sold out over 16,000 people. As a woman.

[B]

I know, right?

[A]

Man, she doing her thing, and people don't give women enough credit. Like, she bringing out stars, you know? And, man, it was a good atmosphere in there.

[B]

I mean, and it was a very skillful fight.

[A]

Yeah, they fought him to bang.

[B]

Very skilled. They came to bang.

[A]

I said, y' all came out of there fighting like cats and dogs in that first round. Ooh wee. But you could see it in her face. She wanted to knock out so bad. I was like, she's a dog.

[B]

She's ferocious. Yeah. And so skillful, too, you know, but she's a unique individual star in a realm where there's not a lot of women stars, you know, it's like. But I think a Person like her can encourage others, and it could be more. And when you have one star, a lot of times it does sort of open up the landscape for more.

[A]

For sure. For sure. Cause she.

[B]

She transcends. Yeah, she transcends boxing. Like, a lot of people know who Claressa Shields is. A lot of people know who she is outside of boxing. And there's not a lot of other female boxers you could say that about. You know, there's only been a few ever, like Christy Martin, Leila Ali, Layla Lee.

[A]

And Wolf. Yeah, Wolf was good.

[B]

Yeah. And Wolf, that lady crack, she could. And she was a ferocious trainer, too. Remember she was training Kirkland?

[A]

Yes, bro. With the bag on the back of the truck.

[B]

Oh, man, she'd make him go through hell. But when he was with her, he was phenomenal.

[A]

When he undefeated with her, I think

[B]

he was undefeated with her. And she wasn't with him when he

[A]

fought Canelo, unfortunately, a couple of fights, I don't think she was with him.

[B]

Well, I think it was too much. Like, it was too hard. He didn't want to do it. She's a tough lady, man. She'd put you through some fucking hell, her training. Like, there's some videos of her putting Kirkland through training camp, and it's like, my God. But for a woman to be able to do that, you know, just shows you how impressive she was, how special she was.

[A]

But his performances showed as well.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, because she was getting in his mind as well as physical.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, and taking everything from him and putting them in a room. And now it's training. It was kind of like Rocky, you know, you ain't got no tv, all you doing is work, eat, sleep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Boxing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's just like, damn.

[B]

I got into old boxing footage real recently. Over the last, like, six months, I've been watching a lot of old camps, and there's some great YouTube channels that are shows. Hagler's camps. And Haglers camps were phenomenal. It was so good. Like, Hagler was rich. And he would go to Provincetown, this shitty little fucking town on the Cape. No disrespect, Provincetown. I'm just saying. And compared to where he could be, he could be in New York City, he could be anywhere he wanted, but he would go to this small town in the middle of nowhere and run on the beach and live in a room with no tv, no nothing. Just eat, sleep, train. He was sparring a hundred rounds a week. I mean, it was wild. Watching him train was incredible. It was Incredible. And when he would get into that ring, there was no stone unturned. No stone unturned. And it was just all discipline and drive and focus and. And he was another guy. Didn't get his due. Didn't get his due. Until he stopped, really. Until he stopped. Hearns. That's when people really woke up. You know, all the inside boxing, people were very aware, but it took a while. It took a while before the rest of the world called.

[A]

Because it wasn't flashy.

[B]

Yeah, it wasn't flashy. Just dominate. Just break people's wills. The Mugabe fight to this day is one of my favorite fights of all time. Because Mugabe was putting people in the hospital.

[A]

That was tough.

[B]

Oh, my God, Mugabe hit so fucking hard. But that was the other thing about Hagler. Band had a chin from hell. You know, Hagler had extraordinary mandible muscles that, like, they. They did a CAT scan on him, like a scan of his head. They said, the man, the muscles on the side of his head, it's like he was born with headgear or he developed it just from biting down on a mouthpiece for so long. Yeah, just.

[A]

Ah.

[B]

But I love watching those old school training footage videos. Like, there's some great ones of Sugar Ray Robinson running in the mountains and hitting the bag and training and all the calisthenics that he had to do. I think more people should see stuff like that just to appreciate the amount of discipline and work that it takes to get into peak condition for a fight. Because I just don't think they understand what your mind has to go through to get up for that every day, over and over and over and over and over until you're finally in the ring. Like, the ring is almost the easy part, the easiest.

[A]

It's tough. It's like, you know, when. When we in Colorado and we got to run the mountain, like, sometimes I'd be like, man, I ain't running this on. Like, I don't care. Like. And then it be like, you gonna get your ass whoop. You better get your ass up, or Bo will come in there and be like, let's go. I'm like, man, Bo, let's go. I don't. Bo got this saying. Anytime I'm giving him some push, he be like, I'm not about to argue with you for you to be great. Let's go.

[B]

I'm like, it's great that you have someone with you.

[A]

Like, hey, right? I was like, here we go.

[B]

He's been with you from the beginning, from the start, that's so big, too.

[A]

And it's crazy because the days that I don't want to do nothing is the craziest days that I do the best, you know?

[B]

And because you conquered that inner, that thing inside you that wants to not do it.

[A]

Yeah. Steven say, man, yeah. Stephen be like. He was like, when you don't want to do something, it's like you trying to hurry up and get it over with, so you trying to do it fast. So, like, my best times is when I don't want to do it. Like, my best sparring is when I don't want to spar. Because it's like, I'm like, all right, I'm about to fuck you up. Cause I ain't about to play with you. I ain't about to go in here doing all this extra shit, you know, I don't want to get hit, you know? So it's like your best days is when you don't want to do it. Yeah, you know, that's when I performed the best in the gym and stuff like that. So. Yeah, man. A lot of young fighters, when they come and see my training, they see what I go through three times a day. So it's eat, sleep, shit, work, you know, they like, man, you train too hard. I'm like, ain't no such thing. You know, Tim Bradley told me, hey, man, you gotta rest. You gotta. Gotta chill out. Andre Ward, man, you gotta. You gotta rest, you know? And these last two training camps, I took on the advice and took it just a day off, like in a week, like every week. Instead of training seven days a week, I take one day off, just not doing nothing. And it helped me tremendously on my recovery, really. Cause I used to just do active rest on Sunday. We'll do the incline. We'll just do the incline. That's it. In the morning, early in the morning. And then we have the whole day to recover. But he like, no, you gotta just take the whole day off, not doing nothing and just recover. And as you get. As I got older, you know, my last two training camps, I took that advice, and it's just like, man, I'm like, man, I could have did this years ago. I was just so, like, locked in. Like, if I take a day off, they gon have a day up on me, you know? And I was just like, I can't do that. I was working.

[B]

Well, it's a fine line where there's a point of diminishing returns, where you put in too much work. Like seeing A guy fight when he's over trained is one of the saddest things ever. It's like his drive actually fucked him. Yeah, I've seen it before in mma. It happens all the time. Especially guys that don't use heart rate monitors, don't monitor their resting heart rate when they get up.

[A]

I mean, that my last two. Yeah, two camps.

[B]

And that was the only two camps. He did that.

[A]

My last two camps. Wow.

[B]

Interesting, interesting.

[A]

So like, everything was visual with my coaches because they've been with me so long, right? So they know when to pull back. Like some days they'd be like, all right, you know, you're peaking. You did four rounds. Nah, we done like, man, I got eight rounds today. Ah, you good? Be like, what? You good? Don't worry about it, we'll come back tomorrow, you know, And I'd be like, all right, you know, I will never question them, right? You know, or we come in there and they be like, all right, today we just going, we gonna shadow box and we're gonna hit the mitts. But I never questioned them, but they already knew by watching me, you know, along the weeks to pull me back, when to pull me back. And then it started getting, you know, to me and I'm like, oh, okay. So now I know, like, they not gonna let me over train because they know I'm gonna give it my all every time I train and anything I do. So they just pull me back like, all right, well, we gonna just do yoga today and we gonna do boxing work. We ain't gonna do no, you know, strength conditioner. We're not going to do no road work or we not going or we just going to swim. We not. Instead of running, we going to swim, you know, so some days they'll flip flop.

[B]

That's the beauty of having a really good trainer.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

And someone is really paying attention to you and real and knows you, like, knows the signs, knows when you're a little sluggish, knows when you're peeking a

[A]

little early to pull you back.

[B]

Anybody said that you trained too hard. It's like, compared to who? Compared to who? You know, like, it's whether or not you've built your body up to the point where you're doing that for so many years that your body's conditioned to go that hard, you know, because there's people that used to say that if you run a marathon, like, you need like six months off. I had a friend who was my friend, Cameron Haynes, he runs ultra marathons. When he was training for a 250 mile run. He was running a marathon. Every day. Every day. Most people, the conventional wisdom was you can't do that. Yeah, you can. Yeah, you just gotta get up to that. So if a fighter is slacking off in between camps and getting fat and drinking and off, and then they get back in the camp. Yeah. You can't do three hard a day like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if you're already in shape and you're already conditioned and you have built up this base of years and years of doing this, your conditioning would be so much better. One of the things that I notice in young fighters in particular, especially in mma, is how tired they get in a three round fight, just a three round MMA fight, how tired they get. And I'm sure they train hard, but they don't train as hard as these guys who don't get tired in a five round fight. So what is the difference? Well, it's the years and years of building up that cardio base, not fucking up your body, not partying, knowing how

[A]

to breathe, that's the most important.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cause when I, my first time at the ufc, when I did Strength Condition, you know, I was like, man, I'm not getting nothing out of it. It's easy. And it was like, well, it's not meant to break you or kill you. You're going to see the difference. And I'm just like, man, when I'm doing UFC back at home, like, I'm sore. Like, I'm not sore the next day when I'm doing Strength Condition here. But like, gradually you start seeing the results, you know, and it's like, damn. You know, and it's a science behind it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, and I was just like, in my mind, I'm like, man, I'm not working hard enough because I'm used to working hard and I'm going home. And I'm like, oh, that was a good workout. I feel it, like, psychologically, I'm like, I don't feel like I did nothing, you know, because my body is in. So in shape, you know, I'm like, man, I need to do more. They like, you good. You did a lot today. You know, I'm like, all right. So, like, gradually I'm starting to see the effects, you know, I'm like, oh, okay. So maybe he was working me out too, too hard. You know, I'm getting stronger and everything. I'm just like, okay. You know, it's all, it's all a science.

[B]

It really is a science. And, you know, the Problem with fighters is, especially elite fighters, is they're so driven, you know, and sometimes you can't let the dragon off the chain. Yeah, like, slow down.

[A]

Yeah, slow down.

[B]

You got to do this. We got to progress, progress over time and get to that perfect point the week before the fight where you just settle in and then fight time.

[A]

That's my guy. Gavin. Gavin. Just like, oh, don't worry. We steps.

[B]

That's the beautiful thing about having someone that you could trust that really knows what they're doing. And, you know, there's a lot of young fighters that are just all gas, no brakes, and they might be costing themselves a little bit, but then there's a lot of lazy fighters. Like, yeah, I don't want to over train. Yeah, like, no, no, you're under training. That's why you get tired all the time. You're not in good enough shape to be doing the proper workout that you need to do to really prepare for a fight. Yeah, it says this fucking dance, man. It takes forever to learn. It takes forever. You know, that's why, like a lot of fighters, they reach their prime when they get into their 30s because they get it all dialed in. They know what they need. They know what they need to do. They know what a camp really feels like. They prepare for it.

[A]

Bennard, the experience. Yeah, you know, so, yeah, they definitely know they body. They know when they in shape, when they out of shape, what they need, when they need a little more experience is the best teacher, I would say.

[B]

Well, experience and then listening to people like you, that's a big factor. Listening to people that have done it all and, you know, and that wisdom, the. Just the things that you've said on this podcast today, I guarantee you right now there are hundreds of thousands of fucking future fighters that are listening to this right now and that are probably, like, taking it all in. Okay. Because, you know, in the early days, you don't know what the fuck to do. You don't know what. What's. What's the. What's the right approach is his approach is his approach. Like, what's the right mentality? What's the right mindset? Who are the right coaches? Which is a big factor. You get a bad coach and get stuck with a bad coach, and it'll limit your development.

[A]

Yeah, for sure, for sure. And that goes back to styles. When I said I was trying to coach everybody to the same style when everybody ain't meant to be trained the same, everybody don't have the same, you know, mental capacity to process Things the same way. Some people process things different. That's kind of like yelling at a fighter. You know, that, that motivated me. Sometimes that break fighters, they like, ha, ha, I'm getting yelled at. I'm doing something wrong. And, you know, so we look at them like, man, toughen up, you know, but nowadays it's different. Like everything don't flock the same with one fighter. Like it do.

[B]

You gotta figure out what, what gets your fighter going.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And that's, that's another interesting dance. I don't envy those people because your livelihood depends upon another person performing, which is kind of crazy. It's a crazy way to live your life.

[A]

That's. Any sports.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Like I always say, sometimes I blame the coaches, but for the most part, the players and the fighters and the athletes, they got to go out there and perform. I could tell you go out there and do this, but if you don't go do it, then that's on you right now coaches, they can make the. I mean, they can get out coached, they can call the wrong plays at the wrong times. Different like that. But all in all, if he go out there and miss a tackle, if he go out there and not catch the ball, why am I getting fired? Right. They gonna blame me. You know what I mean?

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Hey, I can't make him hit the three. I can't make him, you know, D up. So I'm getting fired because they not performing.

[B]

You're also getting fired by people that don't totally understand all the subtle nuances of what you do. If you're a coach, like, if they're not a coach, how could you really understand if you're not day in, day out with these athletes in their head, working with them, seeing what they're doing, improving upon their strengths, strengthening their weaknesses. If you're, if you're not doing that, you just are seeing results. That's all you see. You're judging based on results. And you don't really know who's a good coach and who's not. Because if you're a good coach, you got shit athletes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can only go so far.

[A]

That's it. And it's tough. Yeah, it's tough to, you know, go across the middle and try to catch a bullet without when you know the safety about to come in later, the crazy slap on you.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You know, and it's crazy to go up, you know, on a seven footer trying to shoot a three. Like it's hard at a professional level to do what these athletes is doing, but they making it seem like it's easy on the outside for us. And we like, man, you didn't catch the ball. It's like, man, you try to catch that ball with three people, you know what I mean? On you, you know, coming full speed, and you gotta worry about getting your feet inbounds and things like that. It's so much.

[B]

Well, it's like TFIMO's corner during the Shakur fight. You gotta hit him. You gotta hit him. Like, what do you think I'm trying to do?

[A]

Tell me how to hit him. Tell me how to set up to hit him. Don't just tell me you gotta hit him. You know, and that goes into saying that everybody shouldn't be a coach.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, because now you not giving me no instructions. You going off of emotions and you just telling me, hey, you gotta hit him. You not hitting him. What are you doing? Yeah. Now, what if Tio would have said, what is you doing? Cause you're not telling me nothing. You see me trying to hit him, but he moving, you know, like, what I supposed to do? I'm swinging and I'm. I'm missing. Right? So tell me how to set it up to him.

[B]

But there's really nothing anybody could have told him. Yeah, the gap was just too wide at that point, Right? Yeah. They should have studied more in training. But even then, it's like, the problem is years. It's years of advancement. It's years of intelligent boxing. It's years of setups. It's years of skills.

[A]

I think when a fighter have a good coach that's knowledgeable, and they believe in a coach, and a coach asks them to do something, and they believe that that's going to work, they'll try it. You know, if your coach tell you, all right, listen, he's stepping back every time you step in. So that means for every time he stepped back, you gotta step in twice and double the jab and close the distance and let your hands go when you get in range. And that fighter go out there and do what the coach asked him to do, and he's successful, then that's a different ballgame. That's a different ball game because now you listening to your coach, but your coach is seeing what the other fighter is doing that's making him be more successful.

[B]

Technical instruction.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can't just go. Go out there and hit them. Tell me how to.

[B]

I hear that shit in the corner. I'm like, good Lord, what are you saying?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You hear it in MMA all the time. You got to put it on him. Oh. Oh, I didn't know I got to put it on him. All this time, I just was hoping it would just happen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Well, listen, man, congratulations on everything. You had a fantastic, spectacular, like one of a generation career. So it's beautiful to watch. And as a fan, I'm honored that you came in here, and I think what you've done is just incredible. So congratulations on everything, and enjoy it. Enjoy all the rest of your life, because you earned it all.

[A]

Definitely.

[B]

Thank you very much. All right, bye, everybody.

[A]

Sa.