JRE MMA Show #176 with Dustin Poirier

Summary

The Joe Rogan Experience MMA Show #176 - Dustin Poirier

Date: March 17, 2026
Host: Joe Rogan
Guest: Dustin Poirier, former UFC Lightweight Champion

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Overview

In this engaging episode of the JRE MMA Show, Joe Rogan sits down with Dustin Poirier shortly after his retirement from professional fighting. The discussion dives deep into the realities of weight-cutting, fighter pay, the evolution of MMA training, doping in combat sports, memorable moments from legendary fighters, changing recovery and supplement technologies, life after retirement, and the explosion of MMA as a global sport. Full of behind-the-scenes anecdotes, fighter wisdom, and candid talk about the fight game's challenges and changes, this episode is invaluable for passionate MMA fans and newcomers alike.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Life After Retirement & Weight-Cutting Realities

Timestamps: 00:13–05:36

• Poirier reflects on enjoying food without the constraints of making weight, after "20 years of counting macros" (00:34).
• He describes how weight-conscious habits have influenced his family:
  "It's ingrained in my daughter now. She'll grab something and say 'Dad, it only has three ingredients!'" – Dustin (00:41)
• Both agree that extreme weight-cutting remains the sport's most dangerous problem. Rogan pushes for more weight classes in the UFC, which Poirier supports but admits could "cause more confusion" with too many divisions (01:27).
• The pair cite examples of brutal weight cuts and dangerous practices, such as Alex Pereira fighting at immense weight differentials (02:29).

Memorable quote:
"You're getting someone to the brink of death 24 hours before they have an MMA fight, which is the most... one of the most dangerous sports in the world." – Rogan (02:02)

2. Weight Classes, Heavyweight Limits, and Early MMA Evolution

Timestamps: 05:36–15:01

• Discussion on peculiar gaps in MMA weight classes and the nonsensical upper limits for heavyweights.
• Historical “what ifs” — missed matchups like Cain Velasquez vs. Fedor, and management complications preventing their realization (06:05).
• Poirier shares stories from his early days training in Louisiana, bouncing between unconnected gyms for different disciplines (13:33).
• Conversation about UFC legends like Eve Edwards—“the uncrowned champion”—and underappreciated fighters from early MMA (15:01).

3. Fighter Pay, Career Trajectories, and Evolving Opportunities

Timestamps: 07:22–12:05, 10:55–12:33

• Poirier describes seeing older stars earning significantly more, and that fighter pay structures continually lag behind other sports (07:38).
• Rogan argues fighters are the product—"Without the fighters, there's no show." (08:31)
• Commentary on brand power: outside the UFC, most fighters remain unknown beyond hardcore fans (10:55).
• Growth of super gyms and American Top Team, with Poirier highlighting the competitive environment and dangers of overzealous sparring partners (11:51).

4. Training Dangers, Early MMA Gyms, and Legacies

Timestamps: 12:33–20:07

• Poirier recalls the rough-and-tumble beginnings:
  "It was just sparring and choking each other out... We didn’t know.” (13:20)
• The network of fighters—in Louisiana, through Tim Credeur, and connections to Eve Edwards, Rich Clementi, Melvin Guillard (14:07–14:55).
• Discussion of unrecognized greatness: Eve Edwards, Josh Thomson, and their rivalries (15:01–18:00).
• Legendary wars highlighted: Melendez vs. Thomson, Diego Sanchez’s weight cut struggles (17:24–18:20).
• Conversations about monstrous weight-cutters like Rumble Johnson and long-lived heavyweights such as Andrei Arlovski (18:40–21:22).

5. Doping, TRT Era, and Supplement Concerns

Timestamps: 23:34–31:10

• Stories of the rampant “TRT era”:
  "Back in the day, the juice was just free flowing, man." – Poirier (23:44)
• Mark Hunt’s lawsuit (24:11) and the complexities of anti-doping in MMA—testing, supplement contamination, and fighters’ paranoia.
• Rogan and Poirier both describe responsible supplement use and perils of “tainted supplements.”
• Rogan exposes the manufacturing flaws of supplement companies found during Onnit’s third-party testing (27:07).

6. Advancements in Recovery & Wearables

Timestamps: 39:33–42:26

• Impact of hyperbaric chambers for injury recovery and brain health, with anecdotes about Uriah Faber and other fighters (39:05–40:25).
• Poirier muses on the value and downsides of modern metrics, wearables, and the mental challenge of listening vs. pushing through fatigue in camp (40:41).
• The evolution in coaching, pulling back instead of always “pushing the pace” (41:41).

7. Evolution of Techniques – The Calf Kick Revolution

Timestamps: 34:12–37:05

• Poirier and Rogan analyze the explosion of the calf kick, tracing its rapid impact on MMA and kickboxing (34:12).
• Poirier shares about experiencing it first as a victim against Jim Miller and then weaponizing it against Conor McGregor (34:34, 36:00).

Quote:
"I didn't know what kind of black magic he was doing, bro. I was like, I got a flat tire!" – Poirier (34:40)

8. PEDs, Peptides, and Banned Substances

Timestamps: 44:30–46:54

• On post-career recovery, peptides, and the line between healing aids and PEDs. Poirier notes how BPC-157—a widely used peptide for healing—remains banned (45:54).
• They reminisce about the stigma of creatine in the 1990s and the continuing risks of severe weight cutting for kidney health (46:06).

9. Fighters’ Longevity, Peak vs. Decline, Retirement Choices

Timestamps: 95:51–110:34

• Poirier confides in his struggle to define himself post-retirement and the difficulty of “letting go” of fighting’s all-consuming focus (95:51, 96:05, 169:00).
• The duo discuss the importance of going out healthy and the danger of continuing too long, referencing BJ Penn’s and others’ late-career woes.
• Fascinating note:
  "The age you retired was the age Yoel Romero entered the UFC." – Rogan (110:13)

10. MMA’s Explosive Growth and Cross-Promotion Future

Timestamps: 143:10–152:32

• Discussion about the massive evolution of the UFC as a promotion, the role of the Fertittas, and the “perfect storm” of The Ultimate Fighter’s breakthrough (152:04).
• Rogan emphasizes the UFC's promotional machine and how it allowed the sport to break into the mainstream—"It was everything you want to see." (153:50–154:04)
• The prospect of streaming services (Netflix, YouTube) becoming major fight promoters, potentially creating a new pay scale and opportunities for free agency (150:39).

11. Legendary Fighters & Forgotten Greats

Timestamps: 136:03–139:47

• Highlights enduringly underappreciated fighters: Gegard Mousasi, Eddie Alvarez, Jorge Masvidal; the tragedy of quickly forgotten champions.
• Poirier’s American Top Team home and Dan Lambert’s visionary contribution to building the ultimate super-gym (160:35).

12. Life, Legacy & What’s Next

Timestamps: 166:19–170:13, 168:18–168:41

• Poirier discusses post-fight plans, focusing on family, businesses (including his hot sauce), and an upcoming documentary spanning his entire fighting journey.
• Contemplates his civilian life, the possibility (and risks) of boxing, and whether UFC would allow crossover fights.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "You're getting someone to the brink of death 24 hours before they have an MMA fight..." – Joe Rogan (02:02)
• "I feel like it's kind of dirty, like a legalized eye poke..." – Dustin Poirier on oblique kicks and knee stomps (125:18)
• "When they don't have fighting, then they go all in with other things..." – Joe Rogan on retirement challenges (93:17)
• "Fighting was always, for me, always pulled everything together. That's why, like, retiring is scary, man." – Dustin Poirier (93:24)
• "All sports aspire to be combat sports. Beating someone's ass is the end goal." – Joe Rogan (166:03)
• "If you put the same energy you put into becoming a great fighter, you'll be great at anything you do." – Joe Rogan (168:39)

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Important Segments (with Timestamps)

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |---|---|---| | Weight Cutting, Family, Early Habits | 00:13–01:49 | | Dangerous Weight Cuts in Combat Sports | 02:21–03:12 | | History of Weight Classes, Super Heavy | 04:15–06:14 | | Fighter Pay & Contracts | 07:47–08:56 | | Hazards of Training and Team Gyms | 11:19–12:39 | | Eve Edwards, Early MMA Legends | 15:01–17:33 | | The Calf Kick Revolution | 34:12–37:05 | | Supplements, Doping, Contaminants | 24:01–27:28 | | Wearables & Recovery Technologies | 39:33–42:41 | | Poirier on Retirement Funk and Identity | 96:05–96:53 | | Forgotten Legends & Career Arcs | 136:03–139:47 | | American Top Team, Dan Lambert | 160:35–161:44 | | Poirier’s Hot Sauce & Business Ventures | 166:30–167:17 | | The Crossover & Future Of Combat Sports | 143:10–152:32 |

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Tone and Atmosphere

• Candid, informal, and deeply insightful, blending technical breakdowns with personal anecdotes.
• Rogan and Poirier share a respectful, easy rapport, often laughing and riffing about the quirks and pains of MMA life.
• Moments shift from technical MMA analysis to philosophical reflection about growth, life transitions, and legacy.

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Conclusion

This episode is a treasure trove of stories and technical insight for MMA fans, featuring frank discussion about the hardships of the sport’s evolution, the realities of weight cutting and fighter pay, behind-the-scenes gym life, and the personal costs and opportunities at the heart of a fighting career. Dustin Poirier’s honesty about his struggles post-retirement and Joe Rogan’s reverence for the sport’s unsung heroes make this conversation as emotionally honest as it is informative.

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Recommended for:

• MMA fighters and fans
• Anyone interested in the history and future of combat sports
• Those seeking insight into athletic retirement and resilience
• Entrepreneurs in the fight business or sports nutrition fields

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Dustin Poirier]

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

[Joe Rogan]

Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[Dustin Poirier]

What's happening, bro?

[Joe Rogan]

My friend.

[Dustin Poirier]

Good to be back, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

Dustin Poirier, the light heavyweight.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's thick, boy.

[Joe Rogan]

Summer, you looking healthy, son.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, like 190, man.

[Joe Rogan]

You look good, man.

[Dustin Poirier]

I feel good, dude. It feels good to eat and not count carbohydrates and calories.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, we were talking about that. Where you, like, still, like, a little part of you is, like, looks at meals and goes, well, I mean, for

[Dustin Poirier]

the last 20 years, I've been macro, and, you know, I knew I had a fight coming up. Even if I didn't have a fight, I had to be in striking range from 155.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

So I was always looking at the back of every label, being real cautious of what I eat. It's, like, ingrained in my daughter now when we go to Whole Foods, she'll grab something off the counter and say, dad, it only has three ingredients. Like, she knows what's up.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's good to think that way anyway.

[Dustin Poirier]

For sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Especially with the ingredients.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, that's the first thing she goes to, like, if she wants some chips. It only has five ingredients. That's, like, a thing for her when we're shopping.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Well, that's smart, man. That's cool. You're raising them right.

[Dustin Poirier]

Trying to.

[Joe Rogan]

Bro.

[Dustin Poirier]

I'm trying to put the stuff I learned in fighting, you know, all the years.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Good use.

[Joe Rogan]

It's. It is kind of crazy. I think it's the worst thing about fighting is the weight cutting. Do you imagine if everybody just. First of all, tell me if you agree, but I think the UFC needs way more weight.

[Dustin Poirier]

I do, too.

[Joe Rogan]

Way more.

[Dustin Poirier]

I do, too. Because the gaps are so big. I mean, just if you look at boxing compared to mixed martial arts, the. The. The jumps in weight are so big from each weight class, but also all the shows they're putting on, they'd have more titles, more belts, more big fights. But also, man, with that, there's going to be a lot of people trying to cut a little bit extra, trying to be double champ in every weight class. I think it does cause more confusion.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but that's better than the extreme weight cuts. The extreme weight cuts are. You saw that dude. A few, like, I guess it was about three events ago, who face planted and got removed off the card.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That is crazy. You're getting someone to the brink of death 24 hours before they have an MMA fight, which is the most. If not the most dangerous sport. One of the most dangerous sports in the world, for sure. And you're doing something to your body to extremely weaken it 24 hours before you fight. It's bananas, dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

I did so many times. You preach it to the choir.

[Joe Rogan]

I know.

[Dustin Poirier]

There's been so many times I felt like that. Like, stand up too quick after a weight cut, and I'm like, you know, I might go down.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, dude. I mean, I can only imagine when you see someone like Pereira that's cutting like £25 and more when he was 185. I mean, that guy was fighting inside the octagon at 225 and weighing in at 185, 24 hours before. Right? That's crazy.

[Dustin Poirier]

And even when he's big, he's lean, you know, it's not like he's fluffy.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, they say that when you're muscular, it's easier to cut weight.

[Dustin Poirier]

More water.

[Joe Rogan]

Water, yeah, yeah. Which is counterintuitive. You see a fat guy like, oh, that guy can cut weight, but you really can't because you can't deplenish your fat, right?

[Dustin Poirier]

Not in a training camp's time. Eight weeks, ten weeks. You can't lose, like, 30 pounds of fat.

[Joe Rogan]

But I don't think I said to planish like it was a real word.

[Dustin Poirier]

You can dehydrate yourself.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think it is a word to planish. Well, if you can replenish. Right. But no one says to planet, can you planish? No, you say deplete. But I just threw it out there like it was real. I don't think to pledge is a word. Is that a word? Yeah, it is. Yeah. I don't think I ever used it that way. Oh, okay.

[Dustin Poirier]

Nice, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Nice. I got lucky. That was just luck. But I talked to Hunter about it. Hunter Campbell. And we're trying to figure out a way without. It has to be more weight classes. I mean, California instituted a bunch of different weight classes. I think. I think they were doing it every ten pounds.

[Dustin Poirier]

I think California also did, like, a percentage of your. Your body weight. Like, I don't. What was it, 15, 20. You couldn't dehydrate more than that.

[Joe Rogan]

That guy Andy Foster is on the

[Dustin Poirier]

ball, and I think that's good, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

20 or whatever. Some kind of rule where guys aren't cutting £50.

[Joe Rogan]

47 is still crazy. Yeah, it's still crazy.

[Dustin Poirier]

I mean, if you're talking. Yeah, you're right. £200, £40.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, it's a lot of weight. Well, that's another thing that freaks boxers out. When I tell them that there's a weight limit at heavyweight that doesn't make any sense, I go, I agree. Why is there a weight limit for heavyweight? That's crazy, dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

That gap too, like 205, anything over that, you can be 210 to 265. That's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Crazy.

[Dustin Poirier]

A 50 pound gap that you, you know.

[Joe Rogan]

But well, heavyweight in boxing, like, look, Mike Tyson when he was in his prime was only like 220. 215. 220, you know, that's where he, when he was dominating, that's where he kind of fell in that weight limit.

[Dustin Poirier]

I wouldn't, I think it would be a good idea. Anything past like 230, 235. Super heavyweight.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

You know.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, the difference been boxing though, is the grappling. The grappling. In mma, the gap if a guy gets on top of you is immense.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

If you got a, like in Ghana, when he was in his prime, was weighing over like £300 and then cutting down to 265, he was a £300 natural.

[Dustin Poirier]

He's a guy who's like a knockdown power for sure, but grappling, like if you get a big guy who's 265 and knows how to grapple very well, wrestled his whole life, they get inside control or half guard, you're not getting up, that's the end of the round.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Also, if they did do a super heavy, the fights might be either awesome or it's completely sucked.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Well, I think it should be heavyweight,

[Joe Rogan]

should be unlimited and then you'll find out. Yeah, because like Kane, Velasquez, no one's holding that dude down in his prime. Even when he was 240. When he was 240 and he fought Lesnar, Lesnar was gigantic. But it didn't matter because the cardio that Kane had and the speed and his technique, sort of.

[Dustin Poirier]

He was ahead of his time, man. He was ahead of it. He was like a hybrid, can do everything. Great cardio, good athlete. Before MMA got to where it's at now.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. The one fight that I always say that we missed is Kane and Fedor in their primes, because they were both in their prime at the same time and they never made that happen.

[Dustin Poirier]

When UFC absorbed the. The Pride roster and stuff, I was crazy. It's crazy that Fedor never fought in the UFC at all, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, they tried. The UFC tried, but Fedor's management were a Bunch of very dangerous dudes.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, you don't mess around with those guys.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, man. It was, like, tense negotiations, and they wanted a percentage of the promotion. They wanted a lot more than just a big purse.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, UFC's not playing that game.

[Joe Rogan]

No, they were like, look, we'll give you, you know, a very healthy purse. We'll bring Fedor over here. But the problem was when they purchased Pride, they thought they were getting everyone's contracts, but the contracts were all.

[Dustin Poirier]

Well, some guys came over on crazy, crazy money contracts. You know, I think Dan Henderson might have been one. I was a young fighter one time, and I was making. This might have been 2013 or something, 2014, I don't know. And they came to give me my check. This is back in the day before they wired, they used to give us checks on fight night. And they had going through the checks, and I saw Dan's and I saw the number, and I couldn't believe it. This is before, like, people posting online fighter pay and all that. And I saw the numbers he was making, I was like, no way. Guy's rich.

[Joe Rogan]

Does it make you angry?

[Dustin Poirier]

Nah, nah. Because the future, myself, looking back or looking forward, when guys are going to be fighting for belts and stuff, the money they're going to make in five years, I'm going to be. I'm going to be that guy. Like, damn, you know, I got out too early or. You know how it is. The next generation always gets more.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

Mike Brown tells me that all the time. Do you? I was fighting for the belt, and we see defending it, making this. You guys on the prelims are making more than I was making, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, there's a weird, that sort of discussion about fighter pay, you know, I've always been of the opinion that fighters should be making more money, period. Because, like, the same way I feel about, like, the way I run my comedy club, the comedians make 80% of the money. Because I feel like that's who's you're paying to see. You're paying to see them. We make plenty of money, like, with drinks and 20% of the ticket sale. It's like, it's enough like it should be. If we had a comedy club and there's no comedians, no one's coming. Right. No one's gonna pay just to sit there and buy drinks. Like, the whole idea is they're paying to see someone's work if you fight. That's what people are paying to see. They're paying to see fighters without the fighters.

[Dustin Poirier]

There's no show. Without the comedians, there's no show. I understand, but I think the big thing with the discussion of fighter pay is is the percentages. When you look at other major organizations like NFL, NBA, the percentages are so, so different. Yeah, it's not good, but dude, at the end of the day, I'm all for fighter pay too. I've been fighting my whole life. But you sign the contract, you agree this is how business is done. Push for try to get more of what you're worth. You know you can't sign a contract and complain, right?

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[Joe Rogan]

Rated R. That's true too, but also it's like, the reality of MMA is if you're not in the ufc, people are not paying attention. That's unfortunate, but it's reality, you know? And I think there's some really good fighters that fight in the PFL and really good fighters that fight in one, but they don't. No one knows who they are other than the hardcore dudes. Right? Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

I got a buddy, Johnny Eblen, who is the Bellator champion.

[Joe Rogan]

Awesome.

[Dustin Poirier]

I've been training with him since he started mma, when he got out of college wrestling and stuff. Like, right now, he can go to the UFC and give the top five guys a run for their money. No doubt in my mind. He's only getting better.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Just because you fight in the ufc, that's a great organization to fight for. The biggest. The most known worldwide. But, dude, there's great fighters everywhere, you know, like on. On the mats at American Top Team. There's a dozen guys you've never heard of that can make a run in the UFC right now.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what I heard is a nightmare about training at American Top Team because

[Dustin Poirier]

it's a revolving door, man. There's like, 100 professional fighters on the mats at all times.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Different camps, they have dorms, so guys from Russia, guys from all over the world are just in. You never know who's going to be there. And it's. It's tough rounds, you know, Every practice is tough.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, not only that, but I've heard there's, like, guys coming in from Russia, and they'll throw oblique kicks at your knees, and you're like, hey, man, like, what are we doing here? We're getting ready for fights. We're not in a fight, right?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, some of these guys are trying to make their name off of a name guy. And so you have to be very selective in who you spar with, for sure.

[Dustin Poirier]

And that's any. Not just American Top Team, especially guys who are established. Like, if I go to any gym here in Austin and it's open mat or something, I have a target on my back. Of course, you know, that's everywhere.

[Joe Rogan]

Of course.

[Dustin Poirier]

But those guys, man, like, at a big gym, like American Top Team, with the knowledge and the good coaches, those guys get weeded out.

[Joe Rogan]

That's.

[Dustin Poirier]

You know, you won't stay there long if you're doing that stuff.

[Joe Rogan]

The problem is, if you're one of the guys that has to weed him out, like, you find out early on this dude's, you know, throwing wheel kicks.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Full blast, and it happens all the time.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah. Well, just, you know, makes sense. I mean, you're from Dagestan or Chechnya or whatever. You come to America, like, this is your big chance.

[Dustin Poirier]

And I do like to train hard to prepare for a fight. You got to fight, but, you know, you got to take care of each other. We're professionals. We're feeding our family with this. Yeah, an injury can ruin everything.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, there's so many fighters that get concussions in training, and then, you know, they get chinny when they get into the fight. It happens all the time.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Especially the early days. There was a lot of guys who got hit.

[Dustin Poirier]

Me. Yeah. Like, the early days, we didn't really have classes that were organized, man. It was just sparring and choking each other out. And with 4 ounces, glove sparring, like, we didn't know. We didn't know.

[Joe Rogan]

Isn't that crazy?

[Dustin Poirier]

Like 2006, dude, we used to beat each other up every day. That was MMA training. And then it wasn't these super gyms where everything was under one roof. I would drive to a boxing gym, drive another 45 minutes to a jiu jitsu gym. You know, it was. Put everything together on fight night, but you would train everywhere else, because there wasn't mixed martial arts gyms back then, really. I would drive to a kickboxing gym, boxing gym, wrestling, jiu jitsu. It was all separate.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, also, you were in a place that didn't have, like, a high volume of MMA fighters in your state. Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

Back then, like Rich Clemente, Melvin Gillard were the big guys from Louisiana, you know, Right. Then Tim Crater came, got crazy. Tim crazy. Tim got on the Ultimate Fighter, and then I went to his gym once he got out of the TV show, and me and him trained for years and years. He still has a gym in Lafayette, Louisiana.

[Joe Rogan]

I loved him. I've known Tim since I first worked out with him in, like, 98 at Machado's.

[Dustin Poirier]

Well, he was in maybe the Navy, so he was in California, stationed there. And I think that's when he started Jiu Jitsu. He was Louisiana's first black belt.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, wow.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I knew him from that. And then he was fighting, and he was fighting in the ufc.

[Dustin Poirier]

He was always around the MMA scene. Him and Eve Edwards were good friends. They opened the gym maybe in Houston or something. He was cornering even Pride. And then I met Eve through Tim, and it's just. It's a big family, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Eve is a guy that I always say there was a time where he was the best 155 pounder on earth

[Dustin Poirier]

when he beat Josh Thompson.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. Yes.

[Dustin Poirier]

He's the uncrowned champion.

[Joe Rogan]

He should have been the uncrowned champion.

[Dustin Poirier]

There wasn't a belt.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. Isn't that nuts? Isn't that nuts? That's so hard for people to understand, like, how crazy it is, like, being

[Dustin Poirier]

through the lineage of thug jitsu, man. It sucks to say like that. He can't say he was a champion, but I know he was.

[Joe Rogan]

He was.

[Dustin Poirier]

He was. He was the best.

[Joe Rogan]

The best. At one point in time, he was the best.

[Dustin Poirier]

I. He. He lived out here before he moved to la. So before I moved to South Florida to train an American top team, I used to drive six hours here and stay with eve. He always had wrestlers down here. This is, like, beginning of my WEC days. I would drive down here and train with eve, Man. He's. He was another guy who was ahead back in the day.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Dustin Poirier]

Because he comes from nhb. Like, hook and shoot. The crazy days.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You know. Yes.

[Dustin Poirier]

And he was doing it all good jiu jitsu, good kickboxing. He fell in love with wrestling. I was such a big fan of eve, man.

[Joe Rogan]

He. He invented some moves, too. You remember that one thing that he would do where guys were on a single and he hit a dude with

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

a flying knee, a jumping knee.

[Dustin Poirier]

Dude, I'm. I'm an MMA historian, bro. That was Elite xc, I believe, maybe.

[Joe Rogan]

Was it?

[Dustin Poirier]

And you know, that was Edson Berto.

[Joe Rogan]

Was it?

[Dustin Poirier]

I think Andre Berto's brother, the boxer.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, wow. Yeah, wow. But that.

[Dustin Poirier]

He had a single leg. He was hopping and then jumped up and eaten out cold.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It was crazy. It is Elite xa. Look at you, bro.

[Dustin Poirier]

I mean, pray that again.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at this. This move is brilliant. That's brilliant.

[Dustin Poirier]

That's Edson Berto. And I believe Andre and Edson's dad was a mixed martial artist.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, wow. That's such a slick move. Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

He's so crafty, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah. Well, that head kick that he landed on Josh Thompson in the middle of that wild, crazy scramble, jumping roundhouse kick to the head, dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

And they still play it. Every opener of the ufc, they still play it as they should. I mean, it's incredible.

[Joe Rogan]

Absolutely. Yeah. I gotta. You gotta give credit to Eve. He's. He was one of the real pioneers, for sure.

[Dustin Poirier]

And way before. This was cool.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Way before.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. But to be stuck at, like, 155, like, that was his weight class, and then there's no title.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. They were the Two best guys in the world at that time. Him and Josh Thompson.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Josh Thompson's another one. Doesn't get the credit he deserves. That's it. Boom. Like, what a slick move, man. But that was eve. Very creative.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, man, Josh Thompson, like, peak Josh Thompson. For me, what was a strike force when him and Gilbert Melendez maybe were going back and forth? Didn't they have like.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, goodness.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, they might have had a trilogy. It might have been two, two or three fights, but every fight was amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

Gilbert Melendez, the other guy doesn't get the credit he deserves.

[Dustin Poirier]

Dude.

[Joe Rogan]

Legend, legend, legend. All those guys, they were the groundbreakers. You know, a lot of these young kids coming up, you bring up Gilbert Melendez, they're like, who? Like, bro, you need to know your history. You know how this thing got started.

[Dustin Poirier]

Go even more newer stuff. Go watch him in Diego Sanchez, right? Slug it out.

[Joe Rogan]

Diego Sanchez is another guy that I say is a tweener, right?

[Dustin Poirier]

Because welterweight.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I mean, he really wasn't really a welterweight. And he, you know, and lightweight, I mean, try to get down to 45 for a while, but that was just brutal. He was killing himself getting down to 45. I remember seeing him making weight for 45. I'm like, oh, this ain't good.

[Dustin Poirier]

This ain't gonna last long.

[Joe Rogan]

No. Yeah, but if, like, there was a 165 pound weight class, Diego Sanchez might have been the champion of the world, right?

[Dustin Poirier]

Honestly, man, like when I was competing, if they had a 65, I might have entertained it. 70 is just too big of a gap because I trained with 70s in the UFC and I know they're 200 something pounds and my heaviest. I was like 182, 183. Maybe they're just too big, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you got guys like Rumble Johnson. When Rumble was alive. Yeah, Rumble got up to £230 in between.

[Dustin Poirier]

No, he was huge, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Huge.

[Dustin Poirier]

I can't believe he made 170. He was. He was living in South Florida, so I see him every now and then. He was huge.

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[Joe Rogan]

He was the ultimate, like, weight cutter. Like, he cut more weight than anybody. When he was fighting at 170, it was bananas. Like, how are you doing this? I remember running into him at a hotel. I was like, bro, how big are you? And he was laughing. He's like, I'm 230 right now.

[Dustin Poirier]

And muscle jazz. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like a heavyweight. And he went up to heavyweight.

[Dustin Poirier]

He.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is crazy. He was a legit heavyweight.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, dude, Andre's still fighting.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. And winning.

[Dustin Poirier]

The bare knuckle champion. Winning.

[Joe Rogan]

He's the bare knuckle champion. Like, how durable is that motherfucker?

[Dustin Poirier]

For the years and the miles that that guy has, I have to say, like, taking shots, receiving damage. I don't know if he takes it like he. Obviously he doesn't take it like he used to, but his mobility and his movement for all the wars he's had in the years he's been fighting. When I watch him in the gym, dude, he's light on his feet, flexible. He moves so well.

[Joe Rogan]

And enthusiasm. Still has enthusiasm for the game.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is crazy.

[Dustin Poirier]

He loves it.

[Joe Rogan]

He clearly loves it. I mean, he was, what, UFC heavyweight champion in 2005.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Was it like 2005, 2005, or 2006? I think he beat Tim.

[Joe Rogan]

Tim Sylvia, maybe when he was the champ. First of all, that motherfucker had a piston for a right hand. I remember when he killed Paul Bull.

[Dustin Poirier]

Oh, my God, that's a Texas guy.

[Joe Rogan]

Paul Buntello. Another. Another dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

I believe he's from Galveston area or Corpus Christi or something. He's from Texas.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, if you think Arloski from 2005, and he was a top 10 heavyweight as recently as like, 20, 23.

[Dustin Poirier]

Well, when he came back to the UFC after that long gap, he went on a streak. He had a bunch of great fight. I think he knocked out Travis Brown.

[Joe Rogan]

Beat Travis Brown, which is crazy.

[Dustin Poirier]

Did he fight Bigfoot?

[Joe Rogan]

Did him and Bigfoot 51 is when he won 2005. February 5, 2005. That is bananas, man. That really is bananas, man.

[Dustin Poirier]

Back in the day, Tim Sylvia used to train at att. When I first got there, he was the most uncoordinated, unathletic guy. I couldn't believe he was a UFC champion, man.

[Joe Rogan]

I know he was like, goofy, pigeon

[Dustin Poirier]

toed, but down to fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, down to down the fight.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, for sure. Pigeon toed. His knees were weird.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, they Went in like, I don't, I tried to talk to a trainer about that, and he goes, that's learned. Like, you can correct that.

[Dustin Poirier]

I was like, what, the need the knee? Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The knees bowed in like that was. He said, that's a learn. You could, you could correct that. I was like, really? How do you. What?

[Dustin Poirier]

I never heard of that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. That didn't understand how.

[Dustin Poirier]

It seems like something they would do. Maybe when you're born, surgery, like, reposition the bones or something. No.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I don't know if it is. I don't know. I mean, I'd have to, I don't want to speak out of turn. I, I, I'd bring in that guy and have him explain to me how you could correct that, but he's like, that's something that could be corrected. That's like, learned behavior. It's just from being so big.

[Dustin Poirier]

But, dude, watching him with his toes pointed out, doing the ladder drills and stuff, you know, the, the ladders on the mat, in and out, like it was big.

[Joe Rogan]

Guys have their toes pointed out like that. Like, jelly roll went from 500 pounds, and he's down to the, he's in the low two hundreds now, which is crazy. Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

I saw pictures of him.

[Joe Rogan]

Looks completely different, bro. He's lost, like, 300 pounds, and he did it the right way. No Ozempic, just like diet. Exercise. Runs all the time. But he has a problem when he walks. His toes are pointed out, and he's trying to correct it. He's trying to be aware of it.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

When he runs, he runs the right way. Like, feet, Feet pointed forward.

[Dustin Poirier]

You see it, too, on the, on the bigger guy's shoes. The corners of the shoes are always flat. Like flat tires on the outside. Yeah, they just walk that way, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you got to think you have so much weight, you got to. You kind of, kind of stretch out to kind of balance yourself.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But I always point to Tim Sylvia when he knocked out Rico. Rico Rodriguez. That, oh, that Tim Sylvia was a beast, dude. That was back when all the Mexican supplements were allowed. There was a lot of dudes who are very juicy.

[Dustin Poirier]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And Tim had giant traps and huge shoulders, and I remember he struggled to get down to 265 for that fight. Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Back in the day with the juice was just free flowing, man. Free. I just worked the UFC desk with Bisping in Vegas when Max and Charles fought and we started talking about the same thing we're talking about now, and he was like, oh, I fought Vito. I fought them all. In the height of trt.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. You know, he's fought legal juice, which was bananas.

[Dustin Poirier]

I mean, Alistair.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah. That was the juiciest fight of all time. Alistair versus. Versus Brock was the juiciest fight of all time.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. I recently watched the Mark Hunt documentary, and he's trying to, like, push back and do a lawsuit against the UFC for all the juicing and stuff. I mean, it's such a. Yeah, that's a tough.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a tough road, because how much can the UFC do?

[Dustin Poirier]

I mean. And it's on the athletic commission as well. Right. Wouldn't the lawsuit be against the state, not the ufc?

[Joe Rogan]

I think his position is that the UFC knew that.

[Dustin Poirier]

But how would they know that Brock was juicing?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know.

[Dustin Poirier]

This is before random drug tests, I believe.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, it was before.

[Dustin Poirier]

So that I feel like that would fall on the State Athletic Commission.

[Joe Rogan]

Maybe it wasn't before because he did get popped, you know, but it wasn't random. They weren't. No, no show up in camp.

[Dustin Poirier]

No, no. That. The. Back in the day, you would get tested on fight night.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

You know, they wouldn't knock at your door.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it was super clear that Brock was doing something. It was super clear. Like, he was like, in his late 30s. He's built like a fucking. Like the side of a barn.

[Dustin Poirier]

I mean, there's a bunch of guys back then.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, guys. Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

But it wasn't. It was okay. Everybody was doing.

[Joe Rogan]

It wasn't. It wasn't. Right. Because it was illegal, but it was. Like when you have Fight Day drug tests, that's an intelligence test. That's all that is.

[Dustin Poirier]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

That's whether or not you have good people in your corner.

[Dustin Poirier]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And whether or not you have a

[Dustin Poirier]

chemist, it's going to take this amount of weeks together, this many days to get out of your system.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, there are certain camps that would employ scientists, and these scientists, the crooks,

[Dustin Poirier]

are always going to be ahead, you know, they're always going to be coming up with something new, trying to stay ahead of the curve and get away with stuff. And I still think they're probably doing it, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. There's probably something that we don't know right now, and it's going to come out in the future. That's why they hold on to the drug tests for a prolonged period of time.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. They ask you your consent, you have to do an extra signature if you let them test it or use it for.

[Joe Rogan]

What happens if you say no?

[Dustin Poirier]

I don't know. I never said no. I always give it to them.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's good for you because you're clean.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, I competed my whole career clean, man. Nothing, Nothing. I was even scared of certain creatine. Like I got the trusted by sport on everything because I was so scared to be one of those guys because every time I see it. Tainted supplement. Yeah, sure, buddy. But, you know, sure. Tainted supplement. But it could be, you know, I don't want to be one of those guys.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Well, for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

There are octane supplements. That's a real thing. And, you know, I know that for a fact because as one of the owners of onit, when we were doing. When we're doing third party testing of some of our supplements, we would find stuff in there that's not supposed to be in there. And so we'd have to contact the distributor, the manufacturer, and the people that like, mixed our stuff. So the way like on it would work is like Alpha Brain has a bunch of different ingredients that enhance your, you know, your mental focus and clarity. And we would give them the very specific numbers of what's supposed to be in each batch.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And then we would third party test. We find a bunch of. In there that's not supposed to be in there. And it's. Because, you know, if you're getting it done overseas, they have these vats where they mix all the stuff in. And they don't even clean the vats, man.

[Dustin Poirier]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

They dump it out and then they dump the new stuff in there without cleaning it.

[Dustin Poirier]

There's residue in there. And then also the level of drug testing, how high these things can sense anything.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

Even if there's a tiny bit, they'll find it.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. With Jon Jones, right. It's picograms. We got introduced to the term pico.

[Dustin Poirier]

Like a grain of salt in a swimming pool. They could find.

[Joe Rogan]

They say, yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

So the testing is legit. And I'm glad, you know, we're fighting. We're kneeling each other in the. In the face. If we were running track or something.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Dustin Poirier]

But we're fighting. You can get seriously injured, man, so.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Dustin Poirier]

I've always been against doping, but I'm retired now, Joe. I'm retired now.

[Joe Rogan]

Now you can get through the room. Yeah. I love when guys get. Well, cowboy got real jacked too, afterwards. But then he talked coming back and then he got off of everything.

[Dustin Poirier]

That's the thing, though, like always back in the day, all the TRT guys, like, if you change your body's natural production of testosterone with exogenous testosterone, you have to Be on it for the rest of your life.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you don't have to, because there's things called HCG and. HCG and clomiphene can restart your body's production of testosterone. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Because I know your testicles will stop producing.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Dustin Poirier]

You introduce foreign testosterone, right?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Well, for.

[Joe Rogan]

For a period of time, especially when you're a young man, you can restart it. But, you know, my production, I've been on TRT since I was, like, late 30s. Like, it's not coming back. Yeah, yeah, I'm shooting blanks, but you're good. But two of my daughters were born while I was on trt, so it does work. I just had a limited amount. I had soldiers. Just one fucking special ops guy. The front.

[Dustin Poirier]

Only one was marching, but he got through. Black ops.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. So if you think about, like, all of the time, where people were allowed to dope, it is a giant percentage of the history of mma.

[Dustin Poirier]

Like, pride, the further you go back. For sure, for sure, for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Pride. It was juicy as juice. Yeah, Like. Like Ensign, anyway, when he was on the podcast, told me that in the contract, it said in all capital letters, we do not test for steroids.

[Dustin Poirier]

We aren't looking. I've heard. I've heard other people say that as well. We aren't looking.

[Joe Rogan]

Thumbs up, green light.

[Dustin Poirier]

Let's go shoot up the juice. Come fight. We'll pay you cash. Get out of here.

[Joe Rogan]

They wanted you to juice. They wanted you to fight better, which

[Dustin Poirier]

is like, it becomes a spectacle. But, man, people can get seriously injured.

[Joe Rogan]

You can especially. But then also the thing is, like, does it make you more durable? I think it does prevent you.

[Dustin Poirier]

I think it does, man, because just one. That right off the top of my head, when Bigfoot Silva was TRT or whatever, he was on, right? He was so durable. So him and Mark Hunt had those crazy fights, but when he got off, he started getting knocked out.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. You know, but there's also the switch. There's something that happens when you've had a certain amount of concussions where that's another.

[Dustin Poirier]

Another guy that comes to mind. Remember Eric Silva?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Welterweight was huge, dude. Whenever they started doing the USADA stuff, he was getting knocked out and just wasn't himself.

[Joe Rogan]

He didn't look the same. He melted.

[Dustin Poirier]

I wonder what the, like, medical reason for that is. But I. I think it has something to do with confidence and, like, self belief with the testosterone. They just. I think that's a big part of it.

[Joe Rogan]

It's really definitely a part of it. But also there's a part of it. Your vitality, you're just more durable. I mean, when you're jacked up on testosterone, you're just more durable.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Everything about you is more. Alistair's a great example of that.

[Dustin Poirier]

Like animal mode, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, man. Dude, I think Alistair overeem, when he was Ubering. I think that is the best argument for TRT ever.

[Dustin Poirier]

Look like a superhero, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

When he was in K1 and he was shelling up. How you getting through that? How you getting through that?

[Dustin Poirier]

Remember how small he was though, back in K1? He was like a 205 or. Well, when anyone.

[Joe Rogan]

Pride, pride, pride. When he was fighting at light heavy. When Chuck knocked him out.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Liddell knocked him out when he was a legit light heavyweight. And he was skinny. Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

And young and skinny.

[Joe Rogan]

He just decided time to get big.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at him back then when he fought Shogun.

[Dustin Poirier]

Still pretty jacked, though.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah, man, he was shredded. He was shredded, but he was a shredded light heavyweight. You know, he. I think he's a vegan now. Look at that.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Come on, son.

[Joe Rogan]

Come on, son.

[Dustin Poirier]

That's ribeyes. That ain't vegan. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Go back to that other one. That's what I'm talking about. I mean, that's what a UFC heavyweight champion's supposed to look like.

[Dustin Poirier]

Hell, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Come on, son.

[Dustin Poirier]

I mean, put that on the White House card.

[Joe Rogan]

Not just that, but highly skilled, for sure. He wasn't just jacked. He was highly. I mean, there's a K1 Grand Prix champion. I mean, that dude was the cream of the crop at kickboxing. He was the cream of the crop in mma. And he even won the Abu Dhabi European Trials as a pure grappler.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, people don't know about that, about Alistair. His grappling is high level.

[Joe Rogan]

He had one of the best guillotines in the game. Like Alistair in his prime when he went over and he fought Brett Cooper over in. Was it Burt Cooper? Who do you know? Who do you fucking fight in Strike Force?

[Dustin Poirier]

Like Brett Rogers.

[Joe Rogan]

Brett Rogers, that's right. Sorry. I'm thinking of the heavyweight boxer Burt Cooper. Burt Cooper, who fought. He had some crazy wars with. With Evander. Evander Holyfield.

[Dustin Poirier]

I think Evander's down in South Florida, too now. I don't remember Cooper.

[Joe Rogan]

He was a really. It was. He was a tank. He was a tank. He was a super Jack guy. But Brett Rogers, when he fought Alistair, Alistair, like immediately hit him with a low kick and you could tell he was like, what is this? Yeah, like, it was a different kind of low kick because you're dealing with the tree trunks of Alistair with perfect technique. And that guy was as good a kickboxer as has ever entered into mma. And when he was saucy, he was a problem. Yeah, he was a real problem.

[Dustin Poirier]

Speaking of kickboxers from that era coming to mma, dude didn't go, Khan Saki come over.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

I thought he was going to do, you know, so much better. But he's. He was older.

[Joe Rogan]

He was older, and he was at a time where it's like, you know, he had had so many fights in K1, you know, he had. He had so many wars. And he fought Khalil when, you know, Khalil's fast.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. And I mean, good kickboxing. Real good kickboxing style.

[Joe Rogan]

Kier cracked him in the first round and knocked him out.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Which was a big fight for Khalil because, you know, Gokhan was the Turkish. Tyson was coming over here. You know, he's one of those guys. Like, Mirko Crocop was like, an elite kickboxer who's entering into mma. And everybody always gets excited about that. Obviously, Pereira is the best example of that.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But he was a guy I knew. I told everybody. I was like, that guy's gonna be a nightmare for everybody, because there's something about him, man. I don't know what the hell is going on with his bone structure, his DNA, and his intelligence. Like, he figures out that other people didn't. Like the way he threw that low kick, like, the way he throws that calf kick with zero tell, no turning of the hips. Like, he up, guys. Calves better than anybody on the planet.

[Dustin Poirier]

We had, like, a huge rush of the calf kick. I saw it for, like, a year and a half, two years, everybody was doing it. Now it's kind of fading away.

[Joe Rogan]

I've noticed that it is, but not with him. It's not with elite guys, guys that are really good at it.

[Dustin Poirier]

It does so much damage, man. So quickly.

[Joe Rogan]

Crazy.

[Dustin Poirier]

And it's so much. It's less commitment, so you're not giving. You don't have to turn your hips over as much. So wrestlers aren't grabbing singles as easy.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I remember your fight with Jim Miller.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's just. Oh, dude. Tore me up.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that was. That was one of the first examples of calf kicks being really dangerous, and

[Dustin Poirier]

I've never felt it before, and. And I'm a southpaw, so they land good calf kicks. You'd have to fight another southpaw Right. And that doesn't happen too often, especially with one who's throwing those. So I didn't know what kind of black magic he was doing, bro. I was like, I got a. I got a flat tire. What is going on? What is this?

[Joe Rogan]

I know. You know, isn't it crazy that it took that long for people to figure that out?

[Dustin Poirier]

Ben Henderson was a guy doing it

[Joe Rogan]

early, but it wasn't that effective for some reason. Yeah, he was doing it, but it wasn't having the devastating damage.

[Dustin Poirier]

I'm trying to think of who's the first guy to really. Edson Barbosa would do it every now and then. Trying to think of somebody who really brought it over, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

It's made its way into kickboxing now. It's because they were saying, like, the Muay Thai guys are not susceptible to calf kicks. And everybody was saying that. And I was like, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[Dustin Poirier]

They are light on their front foot, so that front foot is.

[Joe Rogan]

They are. But there's times where they have to plant, like when they're throwing a right kick. There's a guy named Yuki Yoza who fights for one. He's a Kyokushin guy and he Is everybody up with calf kicks. Yeah, he. He fights like high guard, tight inside, and again, no pivot of the hips. He's essentially throwing his calf kick almost like he's kicking a soccer ball straight up the middle. That's.

[Dustin Poirier]

That's the way I like to do it as well. Just clip the top of the calf. There's no commitment. You don't have to pivot your hips or plant to turn. You can just snap it out like a jab.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Well, a great example of the changing of technique was you in that Conner fight.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Calf over and over and over.

[Joe Rogan]

And it was also southpaw versus southpaw. Same thing. You just destroyed that calf.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And you could tell he didn't know what to do because as good as he was and as many fights as he had, two division world champion, he hadn't been cav kicked. Right. Which is a crazy transition. When you see, like, the history of the sport. That is one of the clear. Differentiate the differentiation. That's another word. That's fake. That's the clear line in the sand where the techniques changed.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. And it's one of those things, like, before it happened to me, I saw it and I was like, it might be uncomfortable, but until it happens, then you have a different respect for it. So Connor probably learned a lot that fight, man, like, oh, this is for real. Calf kicks are for real.

[Joe Rogan]

What's that? It's just one shot. That's what's crazy about it. Because a thigh kick, like you can get a hard thigh kick and your leg goes dead for a couple seconds, but it comes back. Yeah, calves don't really come back that quick.

[Dustin Poirier]

They explained it to me at the hospital after the Jim Miller thing. Apparently your calf doesn't have the chambers for the fluid to drain, so that's why it gets compartment.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, compartments.

[Dustin Poirier]

That's why it's so painful. Because it. You can't like go out through the swelling. Can't go out through your whole leg. So it sits in one pocket and fills up and it's just uncomfortable. It can stop nerves.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Joe Rogan]

Do you ever see what happened to Austin Hubbard?

[Dustin Poirier]

Dude, that's what they wanted to do after the Jamila fight. They wanted to cut me at the. It's like no way. No filet you to release the pressure.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, another guy, Uriah Faber, when he fought Jose Aldo, his leg blew up like a balloon.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, apparently if it gets that bad compartment syndrome and the swelling is bad enough for long enough, you can lose function of your ankle and foot.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Which is crazy, right?

[Dustin Poirier]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, Uriah was one of the first guys to implement going into why can't I Think of it. The chamber, oxygen chamber, hyperbaric. What's wrong with me today? I'm making up fake words, can't come up with things that I know. But he was using the hyperbaric, like, exclusively to recover from that and documenting it. And I was like, oh, that's interesting.

[Dustin Poirier]

A lot of good brain benefits for hyperbaric. I don't have one. I've done it before, but it's never been like a routine thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's, you have to have access to it.

[Dustin Poirier]

And also the tent, the tents, the zip up tents at home.

[Joe Rogan]

Not as strong.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, you need a solid, you know,

[Joe Rogan]

you need like one of those propane tank ones, those big thick walled ones.

[Dustin Poirier]

The glass, like, it's really good. High pressure.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, you got to be careful in those things. You can't. No sparks.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, dude. I saw a story that a kid was in one and you saw that, that was a couple of years.

[Joe Rogan]

Horrible. Yeah, horrible story. Yeah. But hyperbaric is awesome for recovery. It's also, it lengthens. There's a protocol that developed, one of the universities in Israel developed it where you do 60 sessions over 90 days, and it lengthens your telomeres. That's commensurate with, I think it's like a 20 year difference in your biological age.

[Dustin Poirier]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

It's nuts. It's super effective. Like when you get a lot of oxygen into your system like that, it just helps everything recover for sure. Like if you have an aura ring or a whoop strap and you go into one of those things, it shows you. Yeah, it's like, oh, you have an amazing recovery day.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, man. The metrics we can track now with all the wearable devices. It's pretty awesome, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it gets you to understand. Like, I think you can get a little addicted to those things for sure.

[Dustin Poirier]

I, I, so when I was competing, I stopped using them because every day, wasn't ready, need to rest, Red, red, red. Every day. So when I retired, I got back to it. Now I'm using them. But, like, when you're training for a fight, you can't. Is that interesting, not taking two days off? I need to train and the fight's coming up. Like, if I'm in the red zone, I still need to train.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. Isn't that interesting? Like, there's a wearable device would tell you you're not supposed to train, but yet, you know, in order to reach MMA peak physical condition, you have to push when you're not ready so that your body's forced to recover quicker.

[Dustin Poirier]

I know this guy's training. That's why I got rid of it during camp. I don't use it or didn't use it well.

[Joe Rogan]

It's weird because, like, what if you listen to it, like some people say, like Terence Crawford was talking about, like, there's times where he wanted to push where his coaches told him not to, and then he realized they were right.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Maturing through, fighting, man, pulling back got easier as I got older. When I was a younger fighter, I didn't want to take any time off. I needed to be as many reps, as much time on the mats as possible. But as I got to, like, mid-30s, 36, I was like, you know, this is. I got to take days off. Complete days. Complete days. Not just an easy day or a technique day. I just need to be out of

[Joe Rogan]

the gym, just relax.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Reset my mind to where I want to be there.

[Joe Rogan]

Just hard for fighters because you operate on momentum of the conditioning and the training, the discipline, and it's like you're in there, and then to have a day where you're not, you feel like you're slipping backwards.

[Dustin Poirier]

Right. And you show up to fight week with that momentum. Like, I did everything I could. I bust my ass every day. Like you just gives you so much energy and so much confidence going into fight week.

[Joe Rogan]

You've turned over every stone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the worst thing, though, is seeing a fighter fight flat because, you know, they overtrained. And the one thing that I always point to is when Tim Kennedy fought Calvin Gastelum, and he had gone through two solid camps in a row. So he went through one camp peaked, got ready for the fight, and then the fight got canceled, and then went right back into camp for to train for Gastelum and didn't give himself the chance to recover. And, you know, he's too tough. Yeah, too tough, too disciplined, and his body broke down.

[Dustin Poirier]

You're redlining that engine over and over and over. I mean, we just saw with Merab, I think, you know, not that taking anything away from Yan, but, you know, you stay that busy, those kind of fights, those training camps, I mean, it's hard to do. That's what makes things like Jon Jones could be so impressive to me, man, to get on top and stay on top that long, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I know. It's nuts. There's so few guys have been able

[Dustin Poirier]

to do that, especially in mma. Too many variables, too many ways to slip on a banana pill, get caught

[Joe Rogan]

in something, you know, I know. I kind of love that Khabib went

[Dustin Poirier]

out on top of and never came back. Respect. That's awesome.

[Joe Rogan]

And they offered him a lot of money to come back. He's like, nope. Yeah, nope.

[Dustin Poirier]

Good for him, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, good for him. Yeah. That's the way to do it. And then you go out all your faculties, everything's fine. Undefeated, go down a legend, right? Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Like, I think Floyd should have did it, you know, like that. Now he's fighting Mike Tyson, dude, come on, man.

[Joe Rogan]

I know there was some rumors around that Floyd was going to have a rematch with Conor, which is crazy. But I think Connor would probably do it, especially if there were any drug testing involved.

[Dustin Poirier]

I wonder if he's going to come back at. For sure. Yeah. But man, to heal from an injury like he had, you probably need a bunch of stuff to. I don't know the ins and outs of that, but you probably need some help to heal.

[Joe Rogan]

He definitely needed some help to heal. The problem is, once you get used to that help and you enjoy it.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, I'm getting used to the help.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. That's what I thought about Cowboy when he got jacked and then he was like, he's gonna. In the. He slimmed back down again. He said he was going to fight again, but I think he might have abandoned that.

[Dustin Poirier]

I got hooked up with Brigham and ways to. Well, they did all my blood. When I retired and got me. I turned down no testosterone for me, so I'm not on any testosterone. I just don't want to mess up my natural production because mine wasn't high, but it wasn't low. I'm just scared to mess with it, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you don't need it. And it's peptide 37 can do a lot for you.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, I'm on a bunch of peptides.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, peptides are the way to go.

[Dustin Poirier]

And I feel great. Honestly, I. I wish I could have been on this when I was fighting, man.

[Joe Rogan]

I know.

[Dustin Poirier]

You know, especially like the growth hormone releasing stuff like.

[Joe Rogan]

Like Tessa Morrillin.

[Dustin Poirier]

Exactly. Like I could see I could have pushed hard every day, man. As I got older, it got harder, man.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. And all it does is help your body recover. It's not like it gives you some sort of a performance enhancing boost.

[Dustin Poirier]

I know it definitely helps with like fat mobilization and. And stuff like that. But just being able to push hard every day is huge in fighting.

[Joe Rogan]

But just BPC 157, which offers no performance enhancing, but would help you heal soft tissue injuries because you're getting injured. You're just getting small injuries. Everyday training, every time you get leg kicked, every time you get punched in the stomach, arm, bar, shoulder, everything, everything.

[Dustin Poirier]

Your joints are always messed up.

[Joe Rogan]

Always, always. And if you wanted fighters to perform better, something that would allow them to heal better is only good. And it's not. It's not going to make you run faster, it's not going to make you jump higher, it's not going to make you an Ubereem. We're not talking about that.

[Dustin Poirier]

And I'm not even sure if that's banned. I haven't checked.

[Joe Rogan]

It is BBC 157.

[Dustin Poirier]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I mean, it's unfortunate.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Creatine, protein powders, that's the same stuff. You just recover better. Well, I don't understand.

[Joe Rogan]

Creatine's not banned, thank God. But creatine in the 1990s were thought of the same way as steroids, right?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I remember people thought like, creatine's cheating. Oh, my God. Taking creatine, they. They literally put it in the same category as then they realize, oh, it's actually a part of food.

[Dustin Poirier]

Great for your brain.

[Joe Rogan]

Good for you.

[Dustin Poirier]

Great for everything.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

You know, just. I just talked my wife into starting creatine. Women need it more than men. I was reading.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

You know, so my wife's just started.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Yeah. I think the key is to, like, make sure you're hydrated too and to make sure you're not taking too much of it and make sure you get your blood checked and so you're not putting a lot of pressure on your kidneys. Yeah, but like dehydration and kidneys, that, like, that is one of the big things that happens to a lot of fighters that cut a lot of weight. They start getting kidney stones. I mean, Jose Aldo dealt with that. D.C. famously got pulled out of the Olympics.

[Dustin Poirier]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because he was having kidney failure. Yeah, yeah. Your kidneys, man, they don't like you being drained out like that.

[Dustin Poirier]

I've had a few weight cuts where I felt pain in my back and I think that's kidneys.

[Joe Rogan]

100%, man.

[Dustin Poirier]

Kidney shots didn't happen often, but I've definitely had it. Tightness. It feels kind of like cramping in a weird place you never had before in your back.

[Joe Rogan]

That's spooky. You're drying out your organs and then

[Dustin Poirier]

fighting for your life. Crazy 24 hours. It was nice though, when I started making it to the top of the cards. Co. Main event. Main event. Because then you have like 30 something hours to rehydrate. If you're fighting early prelims in Vegas.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

Two or three in the afternoon.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. You know it's right.

[Dustin Poirier]

Not too long. Especially back in the day when weigh ins were at 5 or 6pm There wasn't a morning and ceremonial. The real weigh ins were at five and you were gonna fight at two the next day.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, those were nuts. That was crazy. Yeah, that was crazy. When guys would like shuffle to the scale for the real weigh in and you'd see them all like, like a

[Dustin Poirier]

skeleton and you're facing off of the opponent, trying to be tough. Like both dying.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I always remember Jose Aldo versus Connor. Connor looked like he's one of the walking dead. Yeah, he looked like a zombie. He was so skinny.

[Dustin Poirier]

His face bones.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, see if you can find that. And he was also crazy. Yeah, like, like flex. He's always crazy hyped up with no, like, no body fat, no water, just completely dehydrated. Like, look at that, look at that, the eyes.

[Dustin Poirier]

Eyes sunken in.

[Joe Rogan]

That is nuts. That guy weighed 145 and he probably weighed 170 or at least 165 when he got into the actual Octagon that day.

[Dustin Poirier]

I wonder if he does come back. I wonder what he's going to come back at, like lightweight or welter.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, the real key is if.

[Dustin Poirier]

If.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, he's had a lot of opportunities and I don't know, I thought

[Dustin Poirier]

the, I thought the Chandler fight was a layup for him.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the fight.

[Dustin Poirier]

A great matchup for him.

[Joe Rogan]

Great fight. Technically it's a great fight. Stylistically it's great fight. Age wise, Chandler's got to be what, 39 now?

[Dustin Poirier]

He's up there. 38 or 39.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I mean, and then there's the hype of the Ultimate Fighter.

[Dustin Poirier]

True. But it's just a layup for Conor. Chandler's hittable covers distance. Not that technically. You know, huge movements.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

You jump in, you get carried out. Conor's a sniper, man. I just think that's a great matchup for him.

[Joe Rogan]

It's also a great matchup for Chandler

[Dustin Poirier]

because he gets tired and he gets that, you know, because he sat out for two years waiting on Conor.

[Joe Rogan]

It's also like, remember him with Oliveira? Even in the third round, that dude is carrying Oliveira and throwing him through the air and body slamming him while he's on his back. Yeah, like the dudes has. He has incredible durance and incredible discipline. He's always fit. Yeah. And that's been Connor's Achilles heels. That Connor, he's so explosive and so fast that if you're sprinting in that first round, guaranteed you're not going to have that same kind of energy in the fifth round.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, but some guys are just designed like that. You know, you saw Taryn Woodley's a guy who has huge explosion, but they don't necessarily keep that for, for 25 minutes. But on the opposite side of that you got a guy like Nate Diaz who keep that same pace from around one to five, round 30.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

Or a Hector Lombard right out of a cannon, you know, and then slow down. Just the way muscles and fibers are put, you know, connected. I don't know what does that to a human.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, the only guys that figured out how to fight with all that bulk and just is like Yoel Romero. He fought very smart. It was just like still fighting, still fighting, dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

Still fighting. 50 years old, Jack. More jacked than ever. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

48 years old, 49 years old with abs, looking like a fucking super athlete.

[Dustin Poirier]

I think he's doing bare knuckle maybe.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he did bare knuckle. He did dirty boxing. There's a, there's a fight where he had in dirty boxing where he's, he's touching the dude up and then out of nowhere he just leaps up into the air. He does like a vertical. He is like this five foot vertical, lands on his feet and just starts putting it on. Dude, like I'm tired of this. Let me show you what I could really do.

[Dustin Poirier]

I've had fun playing with the food.

[Joe Rogan]

I've had fun.

[Dustin Poirier]

He's a crazy. He's been on the mats a bunch at American top team as well. And just a freak athlete, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Freak. He's the freak of all freaks.

[Dustin Poirier]

Just a freak athlete.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I mean he came out of that Cuban.

[Dustin Poirier]

They build them different over there.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, they build them with science. Yeah, yeah. But he also figured out how to pace himself, you know, he figured out how to like explode out of nowhere but not explode the entire time. Like he had this casual almost. He would lull you into a false sense of security and then just pounce on you.

[Dustin Poirier]

Right. Like that knee he hit with Weidman with.

[Joe Rogan]

Dude, that was a perfect example. Perfect example because you're getting used to

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

this kind of pace and then you

[Dustin Poirier]

get into the rhythm and then you just break it up. But also he didn't fight like, obviously he's a wrestler. He didn't wrestle too, too hard and really gas himself out. He fought smart to, to do what he's good at.

[Joe Rogan]

Explode barely used his wrestling in mma, which is so crazy. Yeah, it's really crazy if you think about how good of a wrestler he was.

[Dustin Poirier]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Because he was one of the best wrestlers to ever compete in mma. I mean, that dude was elite as a wrestler, and in mma, he's just starching people.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

When Luke. Rockhold. Starch Luke, like, that was crazy.

[Dustin Poirier]

Luke's another guy still fighting, I think.

[Joe Rogan]

I think he might be done now. You know, when he got knocked out by Darren Till in the boxing, I think. Oh, yeah. I think that might be. Be it. And Darren Till's got a resurgence, man, as a boxer, he looks fantastic.

[Dustin Poirier]

I saw the highlights of that, but I haven't seen a whole lot, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

He looks real good. He looks.

[Dustin Poirier]

He's always been a good striker.

[Joe Rogan]

Very good striker. And his Achilles heel has been his knees. You know, he's had some serious knee problems, and it really impeded him from being able to train hard. He wasn't the best grappler in the world, and so that was always his problem. But as a striker, I mean, that guy was, like, very, very good. And you're seeing him now in boxing, like, he's making a real run. I think it's very interesting because if you watch him box Rockhold and you realize, like, Rockhold's a really good striker, but against Darren Till, he looked like he had no business in there.

[Dustin Poirier]

That's something I would like to do, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Box. Still.

[Dustin Poirier]

I always wanted to have a couple before I. You know. But I'm still under contract. Even though I'm retired, I still have a contract with the ufc, so.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you think the UFC will let you out or. They have Zu for boxing, dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

So. They. Trust me. I already pitch it to him.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you?

[Dustin Poirier]

Me and Nate Diaz, Zufa boxing. Let's go.

[Joe Rogan]

Let's go.

[Dustin Poirier]

170, whatever. 168. Super middleweight. Let's do it. They don't want any crossover what they. I think Zufa wants to be taken

[Joe Rogan]

as a serious hate money.

[Dustin Poirier]

They must hate money.

[Joe Rogan]

Do they hate money?

[Dustin Poirier]

They hate money.

[Joe Rogan]

Why do they hate money?

[Dustin Poirier]

I don't know.

[Joe Rogan]

They.

[Dustin Poirier]

They want to be taken by the boxing world. Serious. And I think if you open that door of a MMA guy fighting under Zufa boxing, every guy on the roster, every girl on the roster is going to want to do the same. It just becomes a mess, I think. Think.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know about that. Yeah, I don't think it's a mess.

[Dustin Poirier]

I think there are some really fun MMA boxing matchups you can make.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, yes. Especially when guys get older and you know, you don't want to go through the training camp with wrestling and leg kicks and all that.

[Dustin Poirier]

That's the thing. Like thinking about a boxing training camp, dude, with no grappling, no wrestling, just run condition and box. It would be smooth savings, dude. I love it. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Isn't it funny?

[Dustin Poirier]

I'm on the beach.

[Joe Rogan]

As tough as boxing is, like for you, like, oh, this is gonna be.

[Dustin Poirier]

I only have to box. That's great. Yeah. Honestly, man, in training camp, those are my favorite days. Striking sparring is my favorite days. Like the wrestling classes. Two hour mako on Monday. It's like brutal, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it'd be great for you because you've always had great hands. Like, for you, that's a perfect.

[Dustin Poirier]

Well, I started, I started boxing before mixed martial arts, you know, that would

[Joe Rogan]

be a perfect way for you to get some other fights in. I don't understand Zufa.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, I would just love to lace them up and, and box professionally once.

[Joe Rogan]

I know they want to like, redo boxing and I know they want to like. And I think there's probably some real merit there. Obviously what the Saudis have done with Riyadh season has been amazing. You know, making matchups that no one can make.

[Dustin Poirier]

I'm a big Connor Ben fan too, man. I'm excited to see him fight in Zufa and the guy he's fighting is from New Orleans. Like, I know the guy. Like, you know, it's fun, it is

[Joe Rogan]

exciting and it will definitely. I think they will elevate boxing and Dana is throwing all of his cards into that. So I'm sure it's going to work.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, I'm glad we're seeing more boxing zoo for boxing and less power slap on my feed whenever I go to online stuff, you know.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan.

[Dustin Poirier]

I've never been the one, but man,

[Joe Rogan]

it's just not my, not my jam.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. When we, when I fought my retirement in New Orleans, Mike Brown went to the power slap they had there and he said it was awesome in person.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, sure, it's awesome to watch someone get slapped, but like, I'm not interested. I watch it on my phone every now and then. I'll see.

[Dustin Poirier]

I mean, the highlights are good enough. You see the knockouts and the crazy

[Joe Rogan]

stuff, but it's great tick tock content for sure. You know why someone gets slapped and they, they go forward and their head hits the desk and they fall backwards but it's like, it's a concussion.

[Dustin Poirier]

You're watching and you can't. There's no defense. There's no, like, you can't flinch or you get it's penalty if you do.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy. That don't make any sense to me. I don't. I don't get it. But I think they've missed out on the opportunity to have a Muay Thai league. That's what I think.

[Dustin Poirier]

America just doesn't buy into it that big.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think that's true. No, no, no. I just think.

[Dustin Poirier]

Well, I mean, one. One is doing it on Amazon and.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you know, but it's like, who's watching Amazon? That's the problem. Yeah, you have a show on Amazon. Like, I know guys who've released comedy specials on Amazon. Like, good luck finding it. Nobody cares. That's just the reality of this platform. Whatever. I mean, look, Amazon is a phenomenal platform for buying stuff. I love it for buying things. I use it all the time, every week. It's great for buying books, audiobooks, it's great for buying products, but for watching content, it's kind of a mess. A couple big shows like the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and the Terminal List, those are great shows and those brought a lot of people over there. But I mean, you know how big the Terminal List would have been if it was on Netflix. As big as it was on Amazon. More people watch Netflix for sure than were ever gonna watch anything on Amazon.

[Dustin Poirier]

That's why what Jake's doing with the Netflix and bringing boxing MMA there, like, it's. It's big, man. It's big. So many people are going to be watching this.

[Joe Rogan]

100. But I think that if one was somewhere else, I think it would have been. There you go. On the way here today.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

What?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

That got announced this morning.

[Joe Rogan]

An MMA fight.

[Dustin Poirier]

That's what that. Yeah, it's the third fight on that card now. That's the Rousey card.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Wow. Interesting. That's very interesting. That's very interesting. That's a good fight, dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

You said a lot of people don't go to Amazon to watch tv. I just. I just went down a rabbit hole for weeks because I have a newborn at home. So I did the night shift and I ran out of to watch on Netflix and run out of to watch on Netflix. You staying up till 4am every night with a baby boy is like hours of documentaries, hours of stuff. I switched over to Amazon and it was like a whole new world, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, there's a lot on there. It's just they don't have the same viewers. Like our podcast is on Amazon. The numbers that we get from Amazon compared to everywhere else is so small.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The reality of the way they've sort of marketed it and Amazon Prime Video just doesn't have the audience that everything else does. Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

And it's such a big platform, you think it would be crossover from?

[Joe Rogan]

I think it's a mistake on their part because the. The. The product side is so big and like Amazon for buying stuff is so big that it's almost like an afterthought and that they have video money in it, but not the same sort of focus. Also, the interface, when I've gone to it, is a little weird. It's hard to find things. It's not as simple. Like, the interface on Netflix is like, the algorithm's great. It's really good at recommending you things. It knows what you like. It shows you things. It's easy to find things for sure. Amazon's, like, a little tricky. You go there and you're like, what? But see, the one FC thing faces the same problem. The PFL has like, look, PFL is on ESPN plus. So you would imagine PFL would get the same sort of audience that the UFC got, but it's. It doesn't.

[Dustin Poirier]

No, of course not.

[Joe Rogan]

Because the UFC brand is like NFL, like the machine.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's just. Yeah, they. They own that space.

[Joe Rogan]

But the fights on one FC are amazing. Like, especially the Muay Thai fights with the small gloves. Oh, my God, man. And I was trying to pitch this to Dana, so I started sending Dana. He goes, send me some. So I started sending him all these, like, high level Muay Thai fights and high level kickboxing fights, and they're phenomenal. Look, he didn't like the Charles Oliveira. This. Excuse me, this Max Holloway Charles Oliveira fight, he didn't like it. Like the BMF fight, the fight wasn't that good. I was like, I thought it was a great fight.

[Dustin Poirier]

It was impressive. If you were a fan of technique and a fan of how hard it is to do that to somebody like Max, like, super impressive.

[Joe Rogan]

And I was a fan of Max's defense. I mean, Oliveira was on his back in the first round. A lot of people would have first finished first.

[Dustin Poirier]

Minute and a half.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Dustin Poirier]

You know, dry.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

I got finished there.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I mean, I think Olivera is one of the greatest submission artists that ever competed in the sport. Not the best numbers.

[Dustin Poirier]

I mean, numbers prove it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And against Elite Guys like you and like Justin and like, he's.

[Dustin Poirier]

And then Gamrot, dude, Gamrot is. I trained with him for years. He's a wrestler. But his grappling is incredible, man.

[Joe Rogan]

He got tied up in knots with Oliveira.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Olivera is a nightmare.

[Dustin Poirier]

I knew it could happen, but I didn't think it would be that.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, I was stunned, too. I was like, God, he's good. He's so good on the ground. So, like, props to Max for surviving. But if Data didn't like it, so I started sending him for the.

[Dustin Poirier]

I mean, when you have the title, the bmf, like, you want to see

[Joe Rogan]

some violence, I understand, but it's still just a fight. You can't fight outside of your.

[Dustin Poirier]

Just because the BMF belts on the line, you can't go out swinging for the fences.

[Joe Rogan]

But I get it. I get what you're saying.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But I mean, on the feet, I think Oliveira was winning on the feet.

[Dustin Poirier]

Dude. He hurt Max in the first. I think he hurt him in the fifth.

[Joe Rogan]

Fifth. We definitely heard him in the fifth when they did the point down. And then he cracked him and rocked him all very cool.

[Dustin Poirier]

He is, man. He is. He's just known. We put the label on the grappler because he's finished so many guys and so many bonuses, but he can strike, man.

[Joe Rogan]

He's good everywhere. Like with the Chandler fight, he almost gets finished in the first round, comes back and hits it with a clean left hook in the second. Yeah, even good, man.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Knocked him out. Even when I fought him, like, he. He did a good job of picking where the fight happened. He wouldn't fight me in boxing range. It was either all the way in clinch or out. Where he was keeping my body staying long. Kicking range or clinching range is kind of where he fought me. The times I did have success was in the boxing range, but he didn't let that happen.

[Joe Rogan]

Just shows you how good Ilya da Poria is. God damn that dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

Dude, I love Justin. I love. I'm a fan. I don't like this matchup for him.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you know what I mean. Justin knows what he's getting into, and it's hard to count that dude out. He's such an animal.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, he can land the shot, but

[Joe Rogan]

it's in the White House. Who knows? Who knows what's gonna happen? But that dude has the touch of death. He has the touch of death.

[Dustin Poirier]

And he's not a big guy. I've never seen him in person, but I was talking to somebody recently and they said, nice. Five, seven.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, he's small, man. He's not big. Yeah. I mean, there's a photo of me standing next to him when we did the podcast. We're standing next to you. He's much smaller than me. And, bro, he puts people into the shadow realm. Yeah. It was just technique and confidence. His confidence is crazy. He had a. He had a victory party for the Oliveira fight the night before.

[Dustin Poirier]

Drinking wine. I saw. I saw.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think he was drinking water. I think he was drinking water the night before. But he has drank wine in weigh ins. When he's getting ready to weigh in or what is the weight cut? He only did that for two camps. He told me, though. He said it's too much. It was like fucking hungover the next day. Like, what am I doing?

[Dustin Poirier]

Right? And you're about to get your brain beat up. You're dehydrating, you're drink. Come on.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I think he's dehydrating himself and he's said the wine actually helps you get dehydrated.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, alcohol definitely does.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Which is. But it's. Nobody does that. Nobody drinks wine for the weigh ins. That's crazy, bro.

[Dustin Poirier]

I'd like. I'm so. I'm not drinking anything. I'm so depleted by that time, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

I know.

[Dustin Poirier]

And he's getting hammered, lucky and winning world championships.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it was only two fights he did that for, so it became like something where people were pretending. He does it every way.

[Dustin Poirier]

And he's got all these young fighters out there in the world drinking on one day. I'm going to be like the champ, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. But he's. He's. He's crazy talented, for sure. In a weird way.

[Dustin Poirier]

Whatever it is, he has it. Yeah, he has it.

[Joe Rogan]

He's got it in his mind. He's got in his technique, his grappling spin. I watched a video of him grappling with Merab and he was all over me, Rob.

[Dustin Poirier]

And that's crazy. That's what they say. His grappling's just as good, if not better than his. His stand up.

[Joe Rogan]

That's where he started.

[Dustin Poirier]

I've never seen him grapple, though.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he finished Bryce Mitchell on the ground and he's. He's finished a few people on the ground. He's. He's like. He does clearly have phenomenal submission ability. What are you showing me here? What is this him? He says he's done it for a long time.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. You can see his face was Already sucked in a little bit.

[Joe Rogan]

He said that when he was on the podcast, though, that he only did it twice three years ago. That's hilarious. He's all tipsy and drunk.

[Dustin Poirier]

Look, I tell this to Young. There's no right. I mean, obviously don't smoke crack before fight. There's no right or wrong way. Everybody's different. Whatever makes you feel comfortable to perform and compete. Like, everybody's different. If there was a cookie cutter perfect way to work, everybody would do it.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, look at Carl's protest.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, exactly. Smoking cigarettes.

[Joe Rogan]

Smoking cigarettes. Like the day of the fight, he's sitting there smoking Marlboro Reds darts.

[Dustin Poirier]

Who was the boxer?

[Joe Rogan]

Fucking everybody up back in the day. Oh, yeah, Mayorga.

[Dustin Poirier]

Mayorga.

[Joe Rogan]

Carter.

[Dustin Poirier]

Mayorga. Yes, yes.

[Joe Rogan]

He was smoking cigarettes. Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Drinking fucking Carlos. Drinking whiskey, smoking cigs.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, he's like in a party and always going to people up.

[Dustin Poirier]

Respect.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I mean, he's going to fight. Is he fighting Jack Della Madeleina? Is that the fight?

[Dustin Poirier]

I'm not sure.

[Joe Rogan]

I believe that's the fight in Perth. That is a very good fight.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. A tough one for Jack to come back to. Man. I was in. I was in MSG when. When Islam took the belt from him. Dude. Complete domination.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that's another guy.

[Dustin Poirier]

Complete domination.

[Joe Rogan]

That guy.

[Dustin Poirier]

And Ilya was talking about fighting him too. You know, the size difference would be so big.

[Joe Rogan]

So big.

[Dustin Poirier]

Islam is huge. He's huge. He's huge.

[Joe Rogan]

He's too big for 55. And then you see him at 170. Like, how did you ever make 55? Right, because he's so dominant at 170.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Hunter from the UFC. I was in his office not too long ago and they keep record of all the weights fight night. They don't release them all, but they keep it. And we were talking about the Islam fight. When I fought Islam and he was telling me his weight, I was like, that's 192 or something.

[Joe Rogan]

I think the day of the fight.

[Dustin Poirier]

I think so, yeah, that's something. 190, 191. Something around there.

[Joe Rogan]

There. That's crazy.

[Dustin Poirier]

I was 176.

[Joe Rogan]

That's great. But it looks like it in the cage. Like, whenever I know I looked across

[Dustin Poirier]

under those spotlights and they had veins in his shoulders and I'm like, this guy's huge.

[Joe Rogan]

The ones where I'm like, how? Gregory Rodriguez is the one where I'm like, how?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

How, how. How are you 185. How? You're six three. You're built like A Greek God. How. How do you ever weigh 185? How is that even possible? Whenever I interview him, like, how? Right, Because I'm standing next to you and I'm like, that doesn't make any sense. Like, this doesn't. You're not 185 pound guy. You're huge.

[Dustin Poirier]

Like in his prime, when Luke Rocco was a champion. He's huge.

[Joe Rogan]

Huge, Huge, huge.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yoel Romero is the best example. Like, how. How are you 185?

[Dustin Poirier]

Built like an anvil, dude. Solid all the way through.

[Joe Rogan]

When he came in to do the podcast and Joey Diaz translated for him, he was like. Like 230.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Just like his neck starts at the top of his head. Just.

[Dustin Poirier]

Just a tank and shredded always. No, no jiggle, dude. Shredded always. Veins in his abs like crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And he was. He was talking about the Cuban program. I'll never forget. It was like, talking about, like, how they have the. The lower level guys only eat twice a day, but the. The top level guys eat three times a day. And so everybody is competing literally for food.

[Dustin Poirier]

Crazy. You say that in Angola Prison in Louisiana, there's a boxing league. If you're on the boxing league and get accepted into it, you get more meals and stuff. So the same thing. These. These prisoners are, like, trying their best to stay on this boxing league. You get more meals, more time, more free time.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Dustin Poirier]

They actually fight other prisons, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa.

[Dustin Poirier]

I was thinking this would be a great documentary to come out with.

[Joe Rogan]

That would be a great documentary.

[Dustin Poirier]

And it's CCTV to the other prisons so other prisons can watch in their cells.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa.

[Dustin Poirier]

They bust them to Angola. Other prisons in Louisiana, they box. They put out a schedule every year. If you ever want to go to one, it's invite only, but I. I'd

[Joe Rogan]

rather watch at home, bro.

[Dustin Poirier]

It feels. It feels illegal, dude. It feels illegal.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it might not be legal in other states.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, it might not be legal in Louisiana. I might be getting in trouble for saying this.

[Joe Rogan]

Is anybody any good?

[Dustin Poirier]

Hell, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

What do you think? Bernard Hopkins came out of jail.

[Dustin Poirier]

I mean, the guy, obviously, Tyson beat him, but the Black Rhino was an Angola boxing prisoner who got out or pardoned to fight Mike Tyson.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow. That's crazy. I did not know that. So did they have a program where they have coaches and they have to do. They have equipment and everything. Wow.

[Dustin Poirier]

And different. According to the schedule, they'll bus them to the other prisons to fight. And it's played through all the prisons in Louisiana, man.

[Joe Rogan]

You find a Highly skilled guy who's in that program, and they let him go, bro.

[Dustin Poirier]

The refs, they're legitimate refs, but they let the fights go, man.

[Joe Rogan]

What kind of nutrition are they getting, though? They're getting prison food or they get any better food?

[Dustin Poirier]

Prison food, but they get more meals. They get to eat extra stills.

[Joe Rogan]

Terrible food, right? Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Angola is a crazy, crazy prison, man. Grow all the food there, make all the clothes there.

[Joe Rogan]

They grow their food there.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. So maybe self sustaining.

[Joe Rogan]

That bad?

[Dustin Poirier]

Self sustaining. I'm sure they ship a bunch of stuff in, but they do have crops and it's such a big operation that the guards and the staff live on the prison grounds. There's a elementary school.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. There's the worker. The guards, kids and stuff go to school on the grounds. It's wild, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, that can't be good.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's wild. Every October they have a. The rodeo there.

[Joe Rogan]

Article about that boxing association from 2011. Photos and then interview with some people, I think that were part of it. Well, wanna focus, you know, women weaken legs. Ain't no woman in there, dog.

[Dustin Poirier]

Hell, no.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Serious businessman.

[Joe Rogan]

I did not know that. That's nuts, man. Yeah. How come no one's done a documentary on this? Or have they?

[Dustin Poirier]

I know. Well, Bhop was a prison boxer in Philly, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

This would be a great documentary, man. Interesting.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Bernard learned. I mean. I mean, learned like real discipline in prison and also learned that he never wants to go back. No. You know, which is as important.

[Dustin Poirier]

And I think Angola's like maximum security, so you don't go there if you have less than like 25 years or something. So these guys are in there for a long time just trying to find things to do and boxing, eating extra, getting more free time. Why wouldn't you do it? Also get in shape.

[Joe Rogan]

Keeps you focused. You have something to concentrate on other than the fact that you're in jail. Yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

It was wild, bro. They set up a ring, like in a cafeteria. I went there once to watch it.

[Joe Rogan]

It was.

[Dustin Poirier]

It was insane. It felt like I was doing something wrong. It felt like I was doing something wrong.

[Joe Rogan]

Were the guys good?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, some of them were good, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Dustin Poirier]

Really good.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow, that's interesting. They pardoned that guy who's.

[Dustin Poirier]

There's titles, too. They have belts. The Black Rhino.

[Joe Rogan]

Cliff Clifford, maybe atn.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, that's right. That's.

[Dustin Poirier]

So he was in prison boxing in Angola. And he fought Tyson.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow. No. Yeah. I mean, why not, man? At least it gives him something to focus on. The idea is like, oh, you're gonna make a more dangerous felon, bro. They're dangerous. Yeah, they're dangerous. They're in there for murder. What do you think? What do you think they're in there for? Armed robbery, murder. Like, let them fight. Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

Doing life, like.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, exactly. Like, also, we trying to pretend that that's not going to improve the quality of their life and improve them as a human being. Like, doing something difficult, even if it's difficult and violent. Like, fighting will make you a better human being for sure. Make you tougher, smarter, more disciplined, more focused. Also, release all the aggression there so you don't have aggression in, like, regular altercations nearly as much.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, that's where I'm at right now. Like, leaving fighting in the rear view is like, what do I do with my life now, dude? I've been traveling so much. Twice a week, maybe, you know, if I'm home on Friday, I do open matchu jitsu, couple kickboxing classes, if I can make it. But I've just been traveling so much, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Why have you been traveling so much?

[Dustin Poirier]

Sponsors, appearances, cornering buddies. Like, just saying yes to everything that I couldn't before, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

I'm more busy now, I think, because before I would shut everything down. Like, I got to get ready for this fight. I have to focus on this. No, I can't do anything, black out these dates now. It's like.

[Joe Rogan]

You're really good on the desk, man.

[Dustin Poirier]

I enjoy, man. I really do.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

You can tell.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I mean, I think that's one of the best things that the UFC does with former fighters is they give him this opportunity to do stuff on the desk. I think that's huge.

[Dustin Poirier]

I, I, I hope they keep bringing me. I just signed a contract for the year. When it was espn, I was kind of doing, like, independent contractor stuff. They would ask me, I would say yes. But I'm on contract with UFC for a year, so hopefully they keep bringing me, man. I. All the people behind the scenes, just being around the event that I've, you know, I've fought at for so long, it just makes me feel good.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

And I get nervous because it's live tv. You can't up, you know, live TV is different.

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[Joe Rogan]

off your first order. Well, I would like to see they allow more of you guys to take the. The spots doing fights in commentary.

[Dustin Poirier]

Oh, like color?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, right now it's just Dominic Cruz, Paul Felder, Michael Bisping in dc. That's essentially it. Yeah. I mean, those. Those are only former fighters from the UFC that are doing it and I really think there's room for more guys. Yeah, Dan Hardy was great.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

He was awesome at it.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, he was.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know what the happened with him in the ufc. They had some sort of a squabble and he left. But he's fantastic over at pfl.

[Dustin Poirier]

He's still with them.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, he does that. He's really good, man. He's.

[Dustin Poirier]

He breaks stuff down.

[Joe Rogan]

He's very good. Yeah, very good. Good. And he's a great guy. I've known him forever. He was a tenth planet jiu jitsu guy, so I've known him since like, I must have met him 20 years ago.

[Dustin Poirier]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah. Before he was fighting gsp. Before he's fighting any of those guys. I. I knew Him?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He would come over from England to train in America.

[Dustin Poirier]

He was such a knockout artist. We never really get to see him.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

Do jiu jitsu.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. No, he was good at Jiu jitsu, too, man. I mean, he trained hard, and he's just a very smart dude who knows a lot about the sport. Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

It seems like when he's breaking down stuff, you can tell he's study.

[Joe Rogan]

He's also just like a very skillful commentator because he's very intelligent in his. The way he describes things, it's exciting. I mean, I think he. They. I don't know what happened with them.

[Dustin Poirier]

And when I'm on the desk with those guys, I try my best to not break things down too much. Like, on the stat side, I try to make it seem like a conversation. Sit on the couch watching fights with your boys, where I talk about experiences that I've had and stuff. Because they explained it to me, like, that's what fans want to see. If they want to look up stats, they'll go look it up. They don't want to hear you talk about submission attempts and exact stats. They want to know your experience.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

So, like, each rep, I think I'm getting better, you know, opening up and being more myself. I'm trying to do a good job, man. I really, really enjoy it.

[Joe Rogan]

I think stats are interesting sometimes, but what's really more important than that is, like, a technical breakdown of abilities. Right. Because stats, it's. You know, it's variable depending on who you're fighting. Like, you take Charles Oliveira stats, and then you say, his fight with Islam Makachev, and you say, okay, well, where's the stats? Like. Like, it's. It's like. It's really dependent upon skill sets. Who's your level of competition, who you're competing with?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what I mean?

[Dustin Poirier]

That was a quick submission, though. The stats are one submission to tip. One submission, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

He's got a crushing squeeze.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's different, bro. Yeah, yeah. He strangled me. And the way he did it, I think he. Moicano filled in last minute to fight Islam and got caught with the same choke. It's kind of like a Darth choke, but he locks it on his forearm. He doesn't go to the bicep.

[Joe Rogan]

I know.

[Dustin Poirier]

And the squeeze is different. He's pulling to his chest. It's not like a angle squeeze. It's different. So the defense is different. When I got my legs out and tried to walk around, he hooked my leg. But, like, the squeeze was completely different. Completely different, you know, you belly down and kind of get some space to breathe. You can't. The way he does it.

[Joe Rogan]

Craig Jones broke it down.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's like a front choke, almost like a, like a squeeze to your chest. It's not an angle that you use for a normal dart choke.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. I was shocked the first time I saw him do it. I was like, maybe he just like couldn't cinch up the bicep. Then I saw him do it a second time. I was like, no, no, this guy's trying to do it that way. He grabs right here.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Treg Jones breakdown of it on YouTube where. Explains why it's effective and what's so good about it.

[Dustin Poirier]

And it. When he gets the grip locked in, like it's complete, immediate blood shutdown. You know, usually you feel it slowly fading away. It was like right away.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow. So that dude's got a back drive through movie on the.

[Dustin Poirier]

The darkness started coming in like as soon as he got the grill.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He's so strong, man. There's like something about those Dagistan guys, man. Like the discipline those have. Yeah, you know, there's Dagistan guys that are making their way into Muay Thai now too. There's this dude, Assadulla Iman, Gaza Lev. I talk about him all the time. Time. But I can't talk about him enough. He's one of those one FC guys that is fighting in Muay Thai from Dagestan. And this kid is 22 years old and he's knocking out like multiple time world Thai champions.

[Dustin Poirier]

I've never seen him, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

This dude is a freak. I mean, he's a. He's just putting people into the shadow realm every fight.

[Dustin Poirier]

Dude, it's so wild to fight four ounce gloves in Muay Thai. I know, but I mean, you could throw elbows and stuff and knee.

[Joe Rogan]

So it, it's perfect. It's like four ounce gloves. I mean, look, you're throwing elbows, knees. Everything else in the clinch allows you to grapple better.

[Dustin Poirier]

It just makes it so much more dangerous for the blocking. You know, you don't have the gloves covering all the space around your ears.

[Joe Rogan]

But this cat is special, man. He's special, nasty, and he's from Dagestan. It's like, okay, imagine this motherfucker gets into mma. Everybody's fucked if this guy can wrestle at all, which you know he can if he's from fucking Dagestan, man.

[Dustin Poirier]

Well, they do a lot of kickboxing for Sambo, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, this dude's something though. He's something new.

[Dustin Poirier]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

Because he's 22 years old and he's like world Muay Thai champions. He's sleeping them all. Yeah, it's nuts, man.

[Dustin Poirier]

What weight is that?

[Joe Rogan]

145. I think he's 145 or 35. 145.

[Dustin Poirier]

Probably tall.

[Joe Rogan]

Tall 132. Is that what it says? This thing right here says is on

[Dustin Poirier]

screen, weight limit 132.7.

[Joe Rogan]

Interesting.

[Dustin Poirier]

510.

[Joe Rogan]

Interesting. 60 kilograms.

[Dustin Poirier]

22 years old, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, at that weight. Well, and then you think about one has some crazy thing. Look at this. Win, knockout. Win, knockout. Win, knockout. He's a freak, man. And that one dude that made it to the unanimous decision is this kid from Morocco who's just tough as. But God damn, he took a beating.

[Dustin Poirier]

They have such a great product, man. I wonder how many, like, viewers and how the ratings are.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, it's big in Asia, but there they have financial struggles. I don't want to speak to it because I don't know enough, but there's a lot of talk.

[Dustin Poirier]

I know they wanted to start doing shows in America.

[Joe Rogan]

They've done a few. Yeah, I know they did one in Colorado. They maybe have done multiple. I'm not aware. But it's a great product. That's the thing. It's like, I love watching their kickboxing fights on YouTube. YouTube. And that kid Yukioza that I was telling you about, that throws calf kicks, he's everybody up with calf kicks. And there's another guy from a lot of these Kyokushin guys, especially in kickboxing. So, like, they have different rule sets over there. In one, you can fight kickboxing where they use big gloves, or you could fight Muay Thai where they use little gloves. And I think they've had Muay Thai fights where they have big gloves, too. So in the kickboxing, you're not allowed to clinch, not allowed to throw elbows. But in the.

[Dustin Poirier]

But you.

[Joe Rogan]

You can throw knees, but you can't clinch and just continue to throw knees. And you can't sweep and you can't take guys down. It's a little confusing. I think Muay Thai is the way to go. But the thing about kickboxing in Japan is, like, they just wanted to. That's what K1 was. They. They're like, let's just take out all the clinching and make this as exciting as possible. What's the best way to do that? And the elbows. Elbows are very effective, obviously, and knock a lot of guy Guys out. But also cut a lot of people open and stop fights prematurely, which is why pride didn't allow elbows, which is really crazy when you think about that, because, yeah, soccer kicks and stomps, but

[Dustin Poirier]

you were fighting multiple times. True cuts. You know, if you get cut in the first fight, it could change everything. I think that makes sense.

[Joe Rogan]

I kind of. But I mean, soccer kicks, stomps, and soccer kicks. Yeah, it's hard to say because knees

[Dustin Poirier]

to a grounded guy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Ground and brown elbows are so effective. It's so important. I mean, it really like guys that think they're comfortable and safe in the guard. You're not. You're not. When a guy can still bust you up with elbows from a short distance, it's a very effective technique.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, very damaging cut. Yeah, very, very damaging technique.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, there's a real problem with the cage, and the problem is the wall. Like the. The fence is an artificial structure that keeps you from being able to move. And I've always said this, that I think it should be an open mass mat. It should be a large mat, and you should. You should not.

[Dustin Poirier]

Like a wrestling mat.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, like a big wrestling mat. Like, think about a basketball game. Like, think about how much space is on a basketball court, and you still get 16, 000 people in there to watch a basketball game.

[Dustin Poirier]

Guys would be, I would think, running. Running around a lot of, you know,

[Joe Rogan]

maybe you get penalty. Penalty for moving too much. Maybe you have, like, pride.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, you have a red yellow card or.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you have a. You have a center that you're supposed to. Supposed to stay in. And then you have a red zone outside of it. And then you have a black zone outside the red zone where you get points taken away. Yeah, you enter into the red zone too many times. You get a warning for the first time, another warning for the second time. Third time you get a point taken away. So you could use it once or twice to evade, but then you got to go back into the area we're supposed to fight.

[Dustin Poirier]

I think that would be. That would be cool. How big of a. Of an area?

[Joe Rogan]

You talking basketball court?

[Dustin Poirier]

That's too big, man. That's too big.

[Joe Rogan]

How about football? How about football field?

[Dustin Poirier]

That's too big.

[Joe Rogan]

They're doing that with no rules fights. Yeah, Yeah, I watch a lot of no rules fights. They're hard.

[Dustin Poirier]

The Russian, the Russian stuff, they're so

[Joe Rogan]

scary because guys just mount guys and gouge their eyes out. Yeah, they're mounting people and just shoving their fingers there, and guys are screaming and tapping and it's like, oh, I

[Dustin Poirier]

run across some pretty crazy stuff on IG sometimes from those.

[Joe Rogan]

But they're fighting in parking lots. They're fighting on phone booths. Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Cars upside down, underwater. They're fighting everywhere.

[Joe Rogan]

They're fighting everywhere.

[Dustin Poirier]

I saw them on cargo container, floating on the. On top of water, where you get knocked off, and that's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

It's so ridiculous. American gladiators get KO'd and you fall into the water and you just breathe water and they don't rescue you anytime.

[Dustin Poirier]

Just fight with those kid floaties on. If you get knocked out, you just

[Joe Rogan]

float to the top instead of those Muay Thai things. Yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Blow them up.

[Joe Rogan]

Your corners. In the.

[Dustin Poirier]

Your corners.

[Joe Rogan]

Blowing them up. Yeah. But I think the cage. I'd like to. You know how, like the ufc, bjj, that sloped surface.

[Dustin Poirier]

Karate combat.

[Joe Rogan]

Karate combat does that slope surface.

[Dustin Poirier]

That's a good one, and that's a big space. They fight in karate combat. Yeah, Something like that, I think would be good.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It would be better.

[Joe Rogan]

There's something about the.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

But the problem is then you're.

[Joe Rogan]

You're backing up and you hit that ramp and you fall down or.

[Dustin Poirier]

What was the old karate. It was like. I don't think it was Chuck Norris.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Chuck Norris.

[Dustin Poirier]

His league, something like that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I think it was World Combat League or something. I went to see that.

[Dustin Poirier]

Wci.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, something like that. World Combat Federation. Yeah. I think the first guy to do a slanted thing, though, was Frank Shamrock. You know, a lot of people don't realize that Frank Shamrock had an organization for a while, and they fought in, like, this sloped sort of thing, like in Kumite. I think he might have been the first guy. Frank was way ahead of his time. Way ahead of his time. And he's another guy that got erased from. Because he had a falling out with the ufc and he got kind of erased from the lineage of, like, elite fighters from the past fighting older and

[Dustin Poirier]

Strike Force, like, still bodied up. And I know he was a student of martial arts.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, yes. But by the time he got the Strike Force, his kind of best days were behind him. Like when Nick Diaz beat him up. Yeah, it was. It wasn't the same guy. When he fought Phil Barone, he wasn't the same guy. He had a lot of knee problems, and it's like. It's just not. After a while, it's like he might

[Dustin Poirier]

have been, like, 40s in the strike Force or.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know how old he was.

[Dustin Poirier]

Late 30s. 40s.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Late 30s.

[Joe Rogan]

For sure. But when you go back to his fights in the ufc, I mean, he was a pioneer, man. When he fought Tito Ortiz, he was nowhere near Tito's size, and he just beat Tito with cardio, just cardio and defense. And then eventually wore his ass down and beat him up and changed Tito's entire strategy for fighting after the.

[Dustin Poirier]

That he was one of the guys early, was like super fit, super, you know, really focused on his. His health and nutrition and supplementation and everything. Back then, you didn't see a whole lot of that, but he was one of the guys for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, the lion's den, you know, Ken Shamrock's his. The thing that they put guys through, this gauntlet that they put guys through in order to make the team, to make the fight team, was hell. It was just hell. They wanted guys to break. And so extreme conditioning, extreme mental toughness, like, all that was emphasized.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And so Frank was the best example of that, though, because he was. He was elite everywhere. He was really taking guys down. He had great submissions, he had great striking. And, you know, he fought some wild fights, man. He fought Ensign. I. I don't remember where that was. Was that in K1, but he beat Ensign with knees. Like, he. He'd fought in multiple organizations. Obviously started out in pancreas. Yeah. But he had only been training for like a year or something like that. When he fought Boss rooting in Pancreas, he was super talented, man.

[Dustin Poirier]

Why they let him wear boots?

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

Or some kind of leg.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You had some weird shin pad deal with. Well, you had wrestling shoes with shin pads. Right. And open hand slaps, you know?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, yeah. It was always palm, huh?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. So what is this in. Does it say what it's in 2011? This says UFC. It's not UFC. Oh, it's Valley Tudo Japan.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. This was before 2011.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Okay, so this is Valley Tudo, Japan. So Valley Tudo, Japan. I wonder if it's the same Valley Tudo that Hickson fought in. So Hickson was, you know, the champion of Valley Tudo, Japan, early on. Well, that was like the. In the documentary Choke. You've seen that, right?

[Dustin Poirier]

A long time ago. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Documentary rules. Yeah, man, that documentary rules. So that's how Hickson became a legend

[Dustin Poirier]

back in the real nhb. No.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. No rules. Right, right. Well, the first UFC that I went to was UFC 12 in Dothan, Alabama. And you could wear wrestling shoes, you could punch guys in the nuts. Hair pulling. Yeah. Grab their clothes.

[Dustin Poirier]

No weight class.

[Joe Rogan]

There was two weight classes back Then, like, because Vitor won the heavyweight tournament back then, I think they added two weight classes back then. So they still recognize there's some smaller guys and some big guys. And smaller guys are real talented, but they're never going to beat the big giant guys. So let's have a weight class for this.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, I remember renting VHS tapes with my dad of the old UOCs.

[Joe Rogan]

Dude, what got you into the sport? Like, how old were you when you first started martial arts training period?

[Dustin Poirier]

17.

[Joe Rogan]

17. That's late. Yeah, if you think about it, right?

[Dustin Poirier]

Well, I mean, if you want to call wrestling. I wrestled for two years when I was 10 and 11 for a private club. Did like, traveling. Texas a lot, L.A. small club meets, but other than that, no combat sports, no martial art experience.

[Joe Rogan]

How'd you get into it?

[Dustin Poirier]

Boxing. When I was 17, I wanted to box, always wanted to box. Started going to a boxing gym, met some MMA guys there, didn't know they had MMA where I was from, then went to the MMA gym and never went back to the boxing gym.

[Joe Rogan]

So what year are we talking?

[Dustin Poirier]

2006, maybe.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, okay. So this was right when the UFC first started.

[Dustin Poirier]

This is like, I remember when Stefan and Forrest did the big thing. This was, like, beginning around the time I was training and boxing and mixed martial arts. So that wave, like, I just never stopped.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, man. What was it? The world combat? Like, Chris Hordecki was over there, Ben Roth was over there. Remember?

[Joe Rogan]

What was that?

[Dustin Poirier]

The team organization? That was big at the time, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Ifl.

[Dustin Poirier]

Ifl, yeah, Everybody had teams and stuff.

[Joe Rogan]

That was weird.

[Dustin Poirier]

That was real big around that time. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I didn't know being that's where Dan Miller, Jim's brother, landed. The grossest guillotine I've ever seen in my life. Have you ever seen this one? Oh, my God. It's the worst guillotine of all time. He gets this guy in a guillotine, traps his head in his chest and bends his chest so his head is connected to his own chest sideways. So like this. His head went all the way down and touched his chest. I don't even know how he stayed alive. Yeah, watch this, watch this, watch this guillotine.

[Dustin Poirier]

There it is.

[Joe Rogan]

Check this out. Now watch this guillotine. Look at that. Look at that, bro.

[Dustin Poirier]

Jesus, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

How's that guy alive? Look at that, look at that. How is he alive? Have you ever seen that before, ever? Like, that's crazy. That is the craziest guillotine I've ever seen in my life. That's so Crazy.

[Dustin Poirier]

Looks like his neck's broken, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

How did. How's he alive? Yeah. Like, first of all, why did it take so long for the referee to stop? Who's the referee?

[Dustin Poirier]

Steve Mazagatti.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know who it is, but you could have probably stopped that a couple of seconds earlier. But, I mean, it's just hard to imagine that a neck can go in that direction. Like, it's. So that doesn't show it. The other angle that you showed is really what showed it. Yeah, the other angle where you see it from the side, where you see his head, like, when he cinches it up here. That is crazy that you're not supposed to bend like that. Your ear's never supposed to touch your chest.

[Dustin Poirier]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know how it does. I don't know. It just seems like everything would break. It seems like you would never walk again.

[Dustin Poirier]

He's not. Dan's not fighting anymore.

[Joe Rogan]

No, Jim still.

[Dustin Poirier]

Jim's still rolling, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Jim's still fighting.

[Dustin Poirier]

Still rolling.

[Joe Rogan]

It's crazy.

[Dustin Poirier]

Most fights in UFC history and.

[Joe Rogan]

And still fine. No surgeries, no nothing. Yeah, still durable.

[Dustin Poirier]

Did get beat up, I think. Was his last fight. Bobby Green. That was the last time I think I saw him fight.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know if that was his last fight, but he definitely got beat up.

[Dustin Poirier]

That was one.

[Joe Rogan]

He's definitely lost a step. I mean, he's 40 years old, but, man, dude still loves it. Still loves it.

[Dustin Poirier]

Respect to him, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

I mean, he sent me a cook. Cookbook. He came out a cookbook. He's a big cook and hunter and stuff, you know, he sent me a cookbook and a spatula. Oh, that's Captain Redbeard or Jimmy Redbeard on the spatula. It's like, engraved into it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he's quite a character.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, I like him. I like him, man.

[Joe Rogan]

I like him a lot, too. He's a very fun dude. And also complete wits about him. Doesn't have any problem mentally, you know, he's like.

[Dustin Poirier]

Seems like a hard worker. He's always on his farm doing stuff like. You would never think he was a fighter if you didn't know.

[Joe Rogan]

I know, right?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. He's a fascinating character. Well, the thing about this sport is that it, like, exceptional humans are exceptional at fighting. Like, to be an exceptional fighter, you have to be an exceptional person. There's really no way around it. There's, like, it's too hard to do. You have to be a very unique kind of human being that can get through those Camps that can perform under the big lights, that can figure out how to keep getting better and evolve for sure.

[Dustin Poirier]

And that type of stuff is like the last time I was on the show I was talking about it's like a gift and a curse, man. It's like you have to be all in at something. Those kind of people who are built like that, whether it's fighting or drinking or whether it's good or bad, you're going all in. It's dangerous.

[Joe Rogan]

The problem is, like we see with Connor, when they don't have the fighting, then they go all in with the other things. Yeah, yeah, right.

[Dustin Poirier]

Fighting was always, for me, always pulled everything together, you know, that's why, like, retiring is scary, man.

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[Dustin Poirier]

Days are long. I have a lot of time. It's. I don't have to get ready for a fight. I don't.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, you're still a young man too. You still have a whole lot of life ahead of you.

[Dustin Poirier]

37, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. So it makes you think, like, what do I do now? What do I do with my future? What do I do? What do you want to do?

[Dustin Poirier]

Dude, I kind of got like, for a week or so, I would say depressed, but I kind of got into like a funk. Like, what the hell am I going to do with my life? Every day I would wake up for the last 20 years, how can I be better fighter? How can I. What's new in fitness? How can I push myself? Myself? I want to be the champion. And then boom, you lay the gloves down and you wake up and you're a civilian. Like, right. It feels crazy, you know, it's like I'm relearning who I am. Like, I always knew fighting was just something I did, it wasn't who I was. But after 20 years of doing it, even though you know that and you think that, like, it, I don't know who I am without fighting.

[Joe Rogan]

How long did it take you?

[Dustin Poirier]

I'm a father, I'm a husband, I'm a lot of things, but like fighting was, was a cloud in my mind that never went away for 20 years.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

And now I wake up and it's gone. Like, what, what do I do? I'm still trying to find out, Joe. I don't know.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you still get nervous when you would go to events? You know that feeling that you get, like, you, you.

[Dustin Poirier]

When I competed.

[Joe Rogan]

No, no.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

When you go to other events for other people.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Just feeling like you might have to compete.

[Dustin Poirier]

Dude, my hands are sweaty. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. That's weird, right?

[Dustin Poirier]

For sure.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, obviously it just happened to

[Dustin Poirier]

me last A couple weeks, when Max fought Charles, I was nervous. I had armpit stains, my hands were sweating. I'm like, dude, I hope those people don't see this.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Because you feel like you're still there.

[Dustin Poirier]

I'm connected to both these guys for some reason.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you are forever. Yeah. That's the thing. That's what's so interesting about watching, like, old fighters, even old boxers, when they go to, like, hall of Fame ceremonies and they're seeing each other and hugging, like, those guys are connected in time forever.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Max came up to the desk, and I was like, we spent an hour of our lives fighting each other, you know, as hard as we could. And he didn't even know. He's like, no, wait an hour.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, yeah, dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

We went to two decisions, two five round decisions, and we fought. The first fight was a one or two rounds. So it's an hour of fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

We spent an hour beating each other up.

[Joe Rogan]

That is crazy when you think about it.

[Dustin Poirier]

An hour's a long time. An hour's a long time to fight another man.

[Joe Rogan]

Especially baring your soul in front of the world. It's not a regular hour. Just hanging out at the beach.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's the biggest hour.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's an hour you're prepared for for months each time.

[Dustin Poirier]

But because of that, like. Like you were saying with the boxers, like, we know we have an unwritten thing. We know about each other, you know, something we never spoke about. But we know each other better than a lot of people do.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You know when a person breaks and who doesn't break?

[Dustin Poirier]

Max doesn't break.

[Joe Rogan]

He doesn't break. I mean, you see it in that fight. I mean, how's he. How does he go through that whole round and not get submitted?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Dry guy with Oliveira on his back and got close a few times. Like, crushing face.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. You know, like that ocean yoke where you go. The angle you can choke through the jaw.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah. Guys go to sleep.

[Dustin Poirier]

Neck crank. It'll choke you to sleep.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, even just a rear naked across your face. I've seen guys go to sleep.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They just go to sleep. You try not to tap and just wake up and you're like, how did he choke me out over my face? Because it's like a.

[Dustin Poirier]

If you get enough torsion and crank, it'll. Yeah. Cut off the vein or whatever, you know, it'll. It'll put you out.

[Joe Rogan]

It's enough. It's. Which is nuts.

[Dustin Poirier]

And it's so much pain on the jaw, too.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, it's horrible.

[Dustin Poirier]

Choking, getting lack of oxygen to the brain is one thing. Like the jaw binding up against the bones. Like, you know that sharp pain you get when somebody's face cranking you in your jaw?

[Joe Rogan]

Hell, yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

It feels like it's going to dislocate.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Well, that was the thing with Khabib and Connor. We did that torque, that torque crank where he got his neck and he cinched it up with the forearm behind the neck and pulls back like this. Like that is hell.

[Dustin Poirier]

And those guys squeeze is different, man. Those guys squeeze is different.

[Joe Rogan]

What is something about lifelong grapplers? There's like a density to them that's different.

[Dustin Poirier]

The density, the strength, and just, like, the knowing of where to put the pressure and what angle to turn your hips to make a big difference. You know, people outside don't even see it, but it's so, so, so crucial in the moment.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

When somebody's on your back and they just turn a little bit to the elbow, you know, rather than just squeeze straight on. Small things like that or. You know what, Win fights.

[Joe Rogan]

I'll tell you, the fight that I'm really looking forward to, really looking forward to, because I don't know what's gonna happen, is Hamzat versus Strickland. I'm very interested in that fight. Strickland is a nightmare standing up, for sure. He's a nightmare for sure. What he did to Fluffy Hernandez, I was like, holy shit, man.

[Dustin Poirier]

The body shot, the finish. But he made Fluffy fight. You know, he fights at a slower pace. He has his own pace in there, and he kind of forces the other guy to fight. His opponent has to fight this pace with him. I think the best. The best chance is to blitz him, do unorthodox things because he wants to jab, circle, throw a kick, jab, circle. He keeps a very slow pace. He's not sprinting or trying to blast you out of there. He just.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he doesn't get hit.

[Dustin Poirier]

Chips away. High guard. Good show.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, very good show. His defense is extraordinary. He. You know, one of the things he was telling me is, like, I spar more than anybody, and I get hit less than anybody. And that is true. Like, if you think about how much that guy spars, it's a giant part of his training.

[Dustin Poirier]

Look at James, Tony. He was hard. He was hard to hit, and all he did was spar.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

You know.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Perfect example.

[Dustin Poirier]

There's something taught in that.

[Joe Rogan]

In those moments. 100%.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Understanding of distance, timing, pattern recognition. You're constantly in there Moving around. Right. It's like. And then there's also the cardio that comes from sparring. Yeah, it's different.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, because his cardio is almost entirely based on sparring. And, man, that doesn't get tired in there. Right. And the Fluffy fight was like. I thought Fluffy was going to be a problem. I'm like, fluffy's really good, man. You think he. He submitted Adolfo Vieira? He's got all this crazy cardio. He puts a pace on guys, and Strickland made it look like he just did not belong in there.

[Dustin Poirier]

He's so heavy on that front foot, though. I can't believe guys aren't smashing that calf, man.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. Well, he's hard to hit, man. And he also knows how to do that. That. That hacky sack thing, or, you know, like you're bending your knee upwards. You know what I mean?

[Dustin Poirier]

To check it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, well, you don't even check it. You just kind of like, relax your leg and lift it up, up. You know who. Who showed me that is Alex Pereira. He's like. Instead of checking it, it was like, if you check it, it still hurts you for sure. But he just lifts his leg up. He just goes heel to knee on the opposite side. And so, like a hacky sack. Right, Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

I've seen guys take thigh leg kicks like that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Kind of let it swing a little,

[Joe Rogan]

but he does it with the calf, so it's like he sees it coming. Instead of doing that, stepping out and checking it, he just like. Like this. Yeah, that's it. Well, that. I think in this instance, I think that was probably the. I don't know if that was the first fight of the second fight, but Izzy's calf was already done. He was really happy. He told me after that fight, he goes. When he got stopped in the first fight, he goes, dude, I wasn't even that hurt. It wasn't that. He goes, I couldn't move. He goes, my calf was.

[Dustin Poirier]

It doesn't. It doesn't go away.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that one's crazy. That.

[Dustin Poirier]

That's hard to do that.

[Joe Rogan]

That's kind of silly.

[Dustin Poirier]

Soccer move. That's hard.

[Joe Rogan]

That's kind of silly. I don't think he really does that.

[Dustin Poirier]

Block it with the bottom of your.

[Joe Rogan]

He could, though. I'm very interested in that fight, too. Him versus Serial, gone. That's very interesting.

[Dustin Poirier]

For sure. For sure. And I know the power is going to translate over to heavyweight. That's not going anywhere. He'll be out of flatline heavyweights 100%

[Joe Rogan]

especially with zero weight cut.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, he's probably 230, 240 walking around. 230 something, maybe.

[Joe Rogan]

He's 240.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, dude, come on.

[Joe Rogan]

He's 240 walking around.

[Dustin Poirier]

That's a legit heavyweight.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a legit long guy, fought at 85.

[Dustin Poirier]

So is Cyril, man. Cyril's good an athlete heavyweight, not just a big guy fighting at heavyweight. He's a legit heavyweight.

[Joe Rogan]

It is a crime in the sport that that fight with Aspinall got stopped the way it did, that he eye poked him. It's a crime. Yeah, because that fight was playing out in a very interesting direction because Aspinall was having a really hard time touching that. He was bleeding, he was getting busted up. He's getting touched up a lot. Cyril's jab is legit and that's what

[Dustin Poirier]

I was most excited for. I wanted to see Tom have to come back, lose around and come back. I've never seen him, obviously I've seen him fight, but I've never seen him in a real fight where you have to fight your way back into it.

[Joe Rogan]

Or how many times has he even been in the second round?

[Dustin Poirier]

Twice, maybe. Something crazy like that.

[Joe Rogan]

Nuts.

[Dustin Poirier]

And that's why the fan base kind of blew me away. I was like, these guys are so high on Aspinall right now. Like, for a few months, everybody was talking about Aspinall, how good he is. I've never seen it. Not that he's not. He might. I mean, he. He has to be good to be where he's at. Yeah, but I haven't seen it.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, my thought was the real problem that Aspinall is going to present is in the grappling. He's a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt. He's a big. He's fast, he's got a power double. I mean, he explodes. But when he's standing there and trying to stand with Serial Gon, this is the first time that he was ever in front of a guy who was agile and quick and very technical. Serial Gone was doing a lot of sneaky. One thing he does is he keeps his hand low and they pops that jab out, so you don't know where it's coming from.

[Dustin Poirier]

Up jab.

[Joe Rogan]

He does a lot of weird with his front leg, too.

[Dustin Poirier]

He's pretty quick for his size.

[Joe Rogan]

Real quick, real quick.

[Dustin Poirier]

He's a good mobility, good hips.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, man. Cyril's a great athlete. Like, it's not just that. I've seen him dunk basketballs and like, he's he can move. Right. But it's just the fluidity of his striking is so efficient. Like, that's his world if you just want to strike with him.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, Jon Jones is so smart. John's like all this guillotine. Even Francis. Francis, well, he had a blown out knee in that fight, but Francis just like took him down every round and beat him up. Yeah, man, but that's a different cereal. That's a seral that wasn't concentrating enough on his grappling and probably never thought that Francis could employ that tactic. Right. And then really worked with a lot of wrestlers and try to evolve his game.

[Dustin Poirier]

And I think Francis is on that Nate J card as well.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right. He's fighting Philip Lynn's as an ATT guy. Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

How good is he?

[Dustin Poirier]

I've never really watched him train that much. I know he made it to the UFC for a stint, then he maybe went pfl. I'm not sure how good he is.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's.

[Dustin Poirier]

I've seen him at the gym, but I've never watched him.

[Joe Rogan]

Fortunate that there's not another big name for him to fight. Like I was hoping they could get a big name.

[Dustin Poirier]

Bob's out.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, who would be the big name?

[Dustin Poirier]

Like, who's that heavyweight? Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

At heavyweight. That's still talented. No one.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Heavyweight is the most shallow division in the sport, period.

[Dustin Poirier]

Kane's out of jail. Get him in shape.

[Joe Rogan]

Nah. Well, Kane's got crazy back surgeries and knee surgery and shoulder surgery. Chain. Kane was like too tough for his own body.

[Dustin Poirier]

And all the years of wrestling, man, wear and tear, wear and tear.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, also just, just never given his body a break. Just constantly grinding and pushing and that's why he was so good.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's like he, I think in his prime, the best. I think he was the best.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he was certainly in the argument in my mind, it's him and Fedor, but honorable mention always. I give to Fabricio Verdum. Yeah, it's Fabricio Verdum. People want to think about losses, think about peak performances. Fabricio Verdum tapped everybody. He tapped all the legends.

[Dustin Poirier]

Great tri.

[Joe Rogan]

He tapped Minotaur, he tapped Fedor and he tapped Kane. Like just that. Just that alone. He tapped all the legends.

[Dustin Poirier]

I don't know why he's named it. Like when I was thinking about heavyweights,

[Joe Rogan]

why his name doesn't always want to give him respect. I always put it out there because the same way I do with BJ Penn, because people for they only want to think About BJ Penn. Maybe when he fought Frankie Edgar or when he fought Yair Rodriguez. Go back to BJ Penn when he fought Sean Shurk. Go back to BJ Penn when he fought Diego Sanchez.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

That BJ Penn was a motherfucker.

[Dustin Poirier]

Joe Steven.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, Joe Daddy Stevenson. You got to think about the guys when they're in their prime, when they're at. When they're redlining for X amount of years at peak performance. When you're talking about like all time greats. I get it. All time greats. You got to think about guys like Jon Jones and Khabib who never lost. They stayed flawless their entire career. You're right. But for peak performance, when they're at their best, how good were they? I put prime time BJ Penn at 155 against almost. Almost anybody.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, you're right, man.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Bro, he was so good and his

[Joe Rogan]

jiu jitsu was so good and he

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

could knock you out.

[Joe Rogan]

And he was an animal. Just an. When he was training with Marv Marinovich, when he went over there and was like really learning how to get in insane shape and he would come there

[Dustin Poirier]

carrying rocks underwater and all that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Well, I think the Karen rocks was him. Marinovic had him doing a lot of like crazy plyometric stuff. And the Marinovich's strategy was you already know how to find. Fight. All this fighting. You know how to fight. What we're going to do is just give you the most insane gas tank. So your fight training is like secondary. What's really important is just having the most spectacular gas tank so you never get tired. Yeah, but he hated those camps, man. He hated it.

[Dustin Poirier]

And he only did it even in the peak of his shape. He was still a little soft. He was never shredded.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, he's pretty shredded. When he fought Joe Stevenson, was he. Look at. Yeah, he had a six pack back. He looked good. I mean, he was. It was different, but at 55, it was different.

[Dustin Poirier]

And everybody's body type's different, you know.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, at 70, he was never really a 170, you know, he was never. I mean, he was much smaller than you.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, yeah, he's a.

[Joe Rogan]

He was never really 170. He was just so tough that he went up to 170 and beat a Prime Time Matt Hughes.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, I mean, he stuck around longer than he should have.

[Joe Rogan]

He definitely did. He did. And that's what he fought without training. Well, sometimes. And that's the thing people remember.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yes. I hate that though.

[Joe Rogan]

They remember that one fight we fought on his tippy toes. Remember that fight?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yep, Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

Crazy, weird, but you got to think about him in his prime. That's what I always say. Don't look at, like, Fabricio Verdum. Don't look at all the fights. Look at the fights. When he was in his prime, when he was putting it all together was a nightmare. It was a nightmare.

[Dustin Poirier]

Like, when they hit their stride, that's. That's what I was scared about. Staying around the fighting too long. Like, I retired at 36.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm, like, perfect.

[Dustin Poirier]

How much more athletic am I gonna get? How much faster am I gonna get? How much. You know, power is the last thing to go, but durability, speed, reaction time, everything that I need. Like, and if I'm not right in line for a title shot or knocking on the door of it, like, what am I doing right? I'm fighting just to fight for ages.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what's really crazy? That's when I had to look myself

[Dustin Poirier]

in the mirror, you know, like, okay, this is it. I'm gonna.

[Joe Rogan]

You did the right thing.

[Dustin Poirier]

Be healthy. Leave with my faculties for the most part.

[Joe Rogan]

The age that you retired was the age that Yoel Romero entered into the, uh, ufc.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Isn't that nuts? Yeah, it really is crazy if you think about it, because that's. That's really what. And there's a few outliers out there in the sport. Like in boxing, Usyk is the great outlier. Terence Crawford is another great outlier.

[Dustin Poirier]

Dude, what about Usyk and Rico?

[Joe Rogan]

Crazy.

[Dustin Poirier]

Rico's a super nice guy. I love Rico, man. Super nice guy.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a nice guy, but without leg kicks. The fact that he's gonna just box, and he's gonna box maybe the best technical heavyweight that's ever lived. I don't know, man.

[Dustin Poirier]

I learned. I learned my lesson, dude. I bet $5,000 on Fury.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you? Yeah. The second fight.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Interesting. If anybody could beat him, it's Tyson Fury. If anybody can beat Usyk, it's Tyson Fury. Because Tyson Fury was beating him in the first fight. He just got clipped. He got clipped. And then I think it was the ninth. He got really. I remember. I don't remember what round it was, but he got really badly hurt and dropped. But Usik is just so slick.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, man.

[Joe Rogan]

His footwork, his movement, he's like. And the fact that he's essentially a blown up cruiserweight, and he's beating all these giant heavyweights like Dubois, like Daniel Dubois is terrifying. What he did to Joshua.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Just charged forward and just put leather on his face.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Rico's a real heavyweight, but he's not a pure boxer.

[Joe Rogan]

No, I mean, he can hit hard.

[Dustin Poirier]

I mean, there's that, but he's such a great kicker. You're taking a weapon away. It's interesting. It's a spectacle I'm watching for sure, but I just.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm sure he's boxed with a lot of like really elite boxers in the gym.

[Dustin Poirier]

I mean, but yeah, over the years for sure. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The payday is probably bananas.

[Dustin Poirier]

I'm sure. Giza in front of the pyramids.

[Joe Rogan]

Nuts. Crazy. Who's putting this together? Who put that together?

[Dustin Poirier]

I have no idea. Idea.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Aliens. Aliens. That's where they're going to land.

[Dustin Poirier]

They need to do a Coliseum fight, MMA or, or boxing, where they set it up either in the Coliseum or right in front, you know, that would be crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, they were talking about doing that with Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg.

[Dustin Poirier]

They were talking about that fighting in the Coliseum. A real fight.

[Joe Rogan]

I know, that's so crazy. Dude, that would be so crazy. Have those guys be the first fight.

[Dustin Poirier]

Do that one at Meta headquarters or something. Don't do that at the Coliseum. Don't disrespect the.

[Joe Rogan]

The. Don't disrespect. No, no, I know, that's silly. So where. Who's live at the Pyramids of Giza. WBC World Heavyweight Championship Daz. But like, I wonder who the promoter is.

[Dustin Poirier]

Sell wbc. I don't.

[Joe Rogan]

Is that their faces? That's so ridiculous. Look at their. With their circular golden gloves on. Glory in Giza.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's gonna be interesting, man. I'm excited about it.

[Joe Rogan]

I wonder who's gonna buy that. How much is that gonna cost? I'm gonna buy it. But I mean, I mean, how many people are gonna buy that? You know what I mean? Like, I'm gonna buy it because it's. I love Rico. I've had Rico on the show. I mean, think he's the greatest heavyweight kickboxer of all time.

[Dustin Poirier]

For sure. I, I feel like the way combat sports has kind of intertwined all different stuff. Boxing, mma, how big mixed martial arts is. Now you're gonna get a lot of cross crossover. Before you'd get a lot of hardcore boxing fans buying this pay per view, but now you're kind of going to get a little bit of everything. Kickboxing, mma, boxing, fans, glory.

[Joe Rogan]

Has such a small audience, unfortunately. And this was the, you know, this is the argument that Dana said to me about kickboxing in America, that they tried with glory. I just don't think they got the right promotion. I think if the ufc, I mean,

[Dustin Poirier]

it's non stop action. It's highlights the whole time.

[Joe Rogan]

Why would saying.

[Dustin Poirier]

Why wouldn't.

[Joe Rogan]

I feel like if the UFC got behind kickboxing in America, it could be gigantic, especially kickboxing with MMA gloves. That Ghazaliev guy was fighting in the Octagon. You know, gigantic. That would be. Or Yukiosa. There's another guy, Masata in Nori is a bunch of guys. There's a bunch of guys that are, like, really elite that are fighting.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, a bunch, man.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot.

[Dustin Poirier]

A lot.

[Joe Rogan]

Lie. Yeah. Masaki Nori, USK open to fighting Jon Jones in crossover mma. Fight. What?

[Dustin Poirier]

Wait.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, now you got me interested, dude. If the UFC comes up with the

[Dustin Poirier]

cheddar, you better start chilling now.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you better start wrestling.

[Dustin Poirier]

Wrestling right now.

[Joe Rogan]

Is that real? Did he say that? Rico's first.

[Dustin Poirier]

First.

[Joe Rogan]

Second is. Whoever wins between Wardley and Dubois in the third fight is my friend, greedy belly Tyson Fury. So he's not. A rematch with Dubois is a tough sell. He just starched him. The Tyson Fury fight is the big fight because Tyson Fury is the only guy that, in my eyes, makes sense. Says a fight with Jake Paul in MMA at this stage is not being considered, but we're always open to creative and interesting collaboration operations in the future. If we were talking about crossover fights, a very interesting matchup could be against Jon Jones in the United States. Whoa.

[Dustin Poirier]

I don't know what John's gonna do, man, with all the stuff going on with the ufc. He might be done. He might.

[Joe Rogan]

Who knows? He doesn't want to be done. I know he got stem cells on his hip. I know, because I helped him get it. He got it over at. He's talked about it. I wouldn't have talked about it, but he talked about it. He got it at wasted. Well, and so he. He's feeling a lot better. He does have arthritis in his hip. It bothers him, but he. It doesn't bother him enough where he can't fight. And, you know, he's the greatest of all time, period.

[Dustin Poirier]

I did stem cells and PRP in my hip. I didn't notice anything from that.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it really depends on where you're getting the stem cells, what technology they're using. There's a bunch of different kinds of stem cells. Yeah. Yeah. Talk to Brigham about that. He can explain it to you.

[Dustin Poirier]

I got maybe one, but you had

[Joe Rogan]

a labrum tear, right? It was pretty significant.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. And I had to get the head of my femur reshaped. Like a resurfacing. It was kind of egg shaped and didn't need to be round, rounded. So it tore everything off the inside of my hip.

[Joe Rogan]

So how do they do that?

[Dustin Poirier]

They take your leg out of socket. They. They shave the top rounded, and then they micro. They put, like, a bunch of small holes in it to where it cracks, and then stem cells leak out of your body to create a new surface out of your bone.

[Joe Rogan]

How long did that take to recover?

[Dustin Poirier]

I couldn't put pressure on it for eight weeks.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, because it's like.

[Joe Rogan]

So you're just walking around on one leg for two. Yeah. And then once you start walking on it. How weird was it?

[Dustin Poirier]

Very weird, because I had to sleep in, like, a. A motion machine where my leg wouldn't stop moving at night.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God.

[Dustin Poirier]

Because your hip capsule is, like, tricky if it heals up too tight, and your leg won't have any. Any range of motion at all. So while it's healing, you need to be in perpetual motion, I guess.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Dustin Poirier]

And every week, they would send a new code for my wife to type in the machine, and it would be a little bit different angle.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. So my.

[Joe Rogan]

What a nightmare.

[Dustin Poirier]

For those eight weeks, I was sleeping in this metal brace that moved my leg all night.

[Joe Rogan]

How did you sleep?

[Dustin Poirier]

It was horrible because it went up to, like, your. Your junk inside your leg and the outside of your leg. So it's like you had a wedgie by this machine and your legs just motion all night.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God.

[Dustin Poirier]

It sucked, man.

[Joe Rogan]

That's terrifying.

[Dustin Poirier]

But I'm fine now. It healed up good.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy that it worked.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Dustin Poirier]

Resurfacing, missing.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa.

[Dustin Poirier]

The guy actually who did it in Vail, Colorado, invented the surgery. GSP's had hip surgery there.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He invented this surgery, and GSP had to do the same.

[Dustin Poirier]

I don't know if he had exactly what I had, but he. He had surgery there on his hip.

[Joe Rogan]

God, that sounds like two months of no sleeping. How'd you sleep? Did you get used to it?

[Dustin Poirier]

Well, the first week, pain medicine and stuff. You're on all that stuff. It was after, like, when I stopped taking all the.

[Joe Rogan]

That pain medicine. Must have been fun.

[Dustin Poirier]

Triple Z, dude. I was having dreams and getting the best sleep of my life.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's the time where it makes sense to take that. Like you're in a crazy bracelets party.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Watch Netflix and just not give a

[Dustin Poirier]

about my leg sleeping in this machine.

[Joe Rogan]

Hamster wheel.

[Dustin Poirier]

For real.

[Joe Rogan]

Whatever the hell's happening with my leg, I was on one of those, my knee reconstruction did.

[Dustin Poirier]

You had a bunch of knee surgeries?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but my left knee, they put, I had patellar tendon graft and they put me on one of them things where it does this, like when I was in the hospital.

[Dustin Poirier]

So that's, that's a morphine drip.

[Joe Rogan]

So you could press the button to get more morphine. I was like blank, blank, blank, blank, dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

I had the same thing on my hip. They, they put an epidural and then they had a nerve block through my stomach. So I was like completely paralyzed from the waist down. But I had the button thing. I don't think it was working anymore cuz I, I, I revved it up.

[Joe Rogan]

It was you red line.

[Dustin Poirier]

It was shooting blanks, man.

[Joe Rogan]

That's hilarious. It is weird though, to see your like knee constantly moving forward. But I only had to do it like a couple of nights.

[Dustin Poirier]

I can't imagine I did it for weeks.

[Joe Rogan]

I can't imagine. That must have been so hard to sleep, man.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, the motion wasn't so bad cuz it's kind of slow.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, okay.

[Dustin Poirier]

It was the metal in my groin.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh yeah, yeah. It probably rubbed it raw and. Oh God. Yeah, man. Man.

[Dustin Poirier]

But like I said, I was on the pain medicine, so it's crazy that

[Joe Rogan]

it all worked though.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Shout out to that doctor. Shout out to all these doctors. I say that all the time. Like both my knees would be completely useless if it wasn't for amazing doctors. Right. Shout out to these guys. I was just talking, figuring out I

[Dustin Poirier]

worked with Paul Felder at that Vegas show and he just had a hip replacement.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he had the real deal, but

[Dustin Poirier]

so, yeah, no, he had a replacement. Replacement, replacement.

[Joe Rogan]

Why did he have to do that versus what you did?

[Dustin Poirier]

I'm not sure exactly. It's something to do with the spacing, I think, inside your hip, how much spacing you have. Cuz my spacing was good. I wasn't a candidate for a replacement.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, Paul went full nutty after he stopped fighting and started doing Iron Mans. Yeah, dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

He was telling me he travels with a bicycle. He does like still does that. Cycling for five hours, like in a hotel room like crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

That's not good. That's unhealthy.

[Dustin Poirier]

Crazy, man.

[Joe Rogan]

That's unhealthy. Pelty.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Why are you doing that, Paul?

[Dustin Poirier]

Five hours? He told me.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, the same kind of drive that made him a great MMA fighter made him want to like Be the best iron man dude in the world.

[Dustin Poirier]

You need something like that, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Way before the surges a couple years ago when he first got diagnosed, I guess with some injury. Yeah. So range of motion. My right hip reached out to her Dr. D from the UFC to help with an MRI. Long story short, I have the hips. An 80 year old man, no soft tissue left, left grinding bone on bone. The problem is once they put a artificial joint in you, you have that artificial joint forever. It's never going back. Yeah. And as biologics get better and stem cells get better, they're, they're better and better at rehealing or healing that, that actual tissue. And if you could just hang in there. Like this is the kind of the conversation that I had with John. Because if you could just hang in there. They're so close dose. They're injecting stuff into discs now and making the discs larger. Right. So like people with back problems where the doctor's like, look, we got to take some of your disc out, hang in there, hang. And also look into other therapies, decompression. There's a lot of different things that you could do that can create space where your, you know, disc is pushing against your nerves. You can alleviate a lot of that.

[Dustin Poirier]

Surgery is the absolute last.

[Joe Rogan]

Sebastian back.

[Dustin Poirier]

Absolutely.

[Joe Rogan]

Look, if you have a bl, of

[Dustin Poirier]

course they're going to cut you up. They'll do it anytime. You know, it's good business. Cut you open, then the medicines, this, the hardware, everything, it's a, it's a, it's a racket. That's the last step.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the problem. When, when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And you know, and when doctors get paid for doing surgery, they want to do surgery because that's where they make their living. Right. And it's, it's a real problem with stuff like the back back because I don't know anybody that's had a back surgery and been better. Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

You know, the only big one I could think of. I remember Nate Quarry was a big advocate for some company.

[Joe Rogan]

Remember he had a big artificial spacer. Yeah. He had artificial discs put in his back way back in the day.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. He's the guy I think about back

[Joe Rogan]

surgery, but he also like got. It was an intense pain because of that. And I think it wound up like becoming a problem later on on. Like I know guys that initially had some relief because of back surgery and then it started getting way worse after that.

[Dustin Poirier]

Follow ups, always the same story, like same thing with Necks like you lose strength, it's always bothering you for the rest of your life. Like Mike Brown has a fusion where they went in through the front.

[Joe Rogan]

Fusions are rough.

[Dustin Poirier]

My buddy Alan Showband had a neck surgery where they, Kayla Harrison just had one. Like once you have that something, what

[Joe Rogan]

did Kayla have done?

[Dustin Poirier]

I don't know exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think she's telling anybody. Anybody.

[Dustin Poirier]

I know that I'm pretty sure they went in through the front.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. But I don't think she's telling anybody what exactly happened because look, Al Jermaine had a disc replaced and he came back and beat Pyotr Yan in the rematch and looked great and fought really well with that neck issue.

[Dustin Poirier]

And you don't hear him complaining about.

[Joe Rogan]

No, I mean, he said it's great.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I think that, that the new artificial discs that they're putting in the necks, a lot of them, it works out really well. I know quite a few people that have had those.

[Dustin Poirier]

I've been fortunate, man. I haven't had any neck. Neck.

[Joe Rogan]

She had a repair. Repair herniated discs in her neck. Right. So the thing is what they usually do is just take some of the, the disc out and then you have less disc so it's not bulging anymore. But you have less disc now. So now you have more degenerative disc issues. And I just think there's other options. And one of the options is decompression. I don't know if anybody ran the that by her, but I have a harness that I, I, it's attached to a chin up bar and I put it around my neck. It straps under my chin and I put my weight on it. I just like stretch my neck out. It works, you know, relieve. I hear it pop, like. Yeah, yeah, pop, Pop says they replace the disc. Oh, she had to replace.

[Dustin Poirier]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

So she got that thing that Al Jermaine got done. Yeah. How's she going to fight night that quickly? Look at that.

[Dustin Poirier]

I wonder what her turnaround time is. I mean, International Fight Week, maybe. Her, her and Amanda.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, she's fighting, isn't she? Was supposed to be fighting in the White House.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, yeah, but her and Amanda were supposed to.

[Joe Rogan]

They decided not to do that. Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

So maybe this summer, maybe. Because it's gonna be, I mean, that's a big fight, her and Amanda.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a big fight, but I mean, there's a possibility that you do something like that and you're never the same again. So she might have a surgery. Yeah, yeah. It's like you're Whenever you're dealing with your spine, it's very tricky. Yeah. You know, it's just one of those things.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's like shoulders, knees. There's some things, man, you don't want to injure.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think anybody's ever come back from a knee replacement and fought mma. I've never heard of that. I've heard of disc replacements. I've heard of a lot of knee surgeries. Guys, come back. Back. Modesta's Bakas was the worst. Remember that? He fought Khalil, and Khalil sidekicked his

[Dustin Poirier]

knee sideways, and he hyperextended it.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, it went sideways.

[Dustin Poirier]

John does that knee stomp thing, too. I don't. I don't know how I feel about that, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, Ian Gary did it to Shavkot. I don't know how I feel about Shavkot's knee up. I know it's kind of. Because, look, yes, it's effective, but so is ipo.

[Dustin Poirier]

I feel like that's what I was about to say. I feel like it's kind of dirty, like a legalized IP pokes.

[Joe Rogan]

It is dirty. I mean, so are nut shots. Like, nut shots are effective, too. Are we going to allow those? No. I mean, why are we allowing someone to do a technique that you.

[Dustin Poirier]

We do have 12 to 6 elbows now, so that's at least we're getting somewhere.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I like that.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But I'd rather have knees to a grounded opponent than kicking the knee sideways. It just seems like it takes a year off of your career at least.

[Dustin Poirier]

So can a knee bar. So can an arm bar.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, yeah, you could tap.

[Dustin Poirier]

True, true, true, true.

[Joe Rogan]

You get a knee bar, you can tap right inside. Heel hooks the scariest, because you only got a couple of, like, microseconds to tap. When you get that one. That one's so nasty. The knee across. You have no time. You just gotta tap. Yeah. You just gotta know when you're done. You gotta know when he got you and not let it. Did you ever see when Mikey Musumichi fought some cat in.

[Dustin Poirier]

I think. I think I know what you're talking.

[Joe Rogan]

And the dude would not tap. Yeah. He was just ripping his knee apart. And Mikey was talking about it afterwards. He was so gross. I was like, why did you make me do that to you? All right. Why didn't you just tap? He mangled that guy's leg.

[Dustin Poirier]

I think I saw a highlight of that.

[Joe Rogan]

It was horrible. It's so horrible to watch. You got it? Yeah. Show me. Yeah, let's see this Here it is. Like, look at this. Look at his leg. Bro, bro, bro. That is almost as nasty as watching that arm bar or that guillotine from Dan Miller. Look at this.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

This dude won't tap.

[Joe Rogan]

It's so crazy. And Mikey is just a master at destroying your knees. Any normal human being would have tapped.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

And he does this like seven times in this match where he rips this guy's leg sideways, left ways, right ways. The guy's knees destroyed. Like, look at that. Look how nasty this is, man.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

This is so nasty.

[Dustin Poirier]

Look how that angle too.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

That angle's so awful.

[Joe Rogan]

The fact that this dude is just tolerating it. Like right there. That's destroyed. Yeah, that is destroyed. I don't know if that dude ever competed again afterwards.

[Dustin Poirier]

He might never be the same.

[Joe Rogan]

No, you know, the same. He won't be the same. He won't be. It'll never be 100. Like, you get your ripped apart like that.

[Dustin Poirier]

For sure. There's some meniscus mcl, acl.

[Joe Rogan]

Meniscus mcl. Every. Everything that heel hooks that changed.

[Dustin Poirier]

I've been fortunate, man, with my knees. I have a torn meniscus in my right knee, but never needed surgery, you know. Had a partial tear on my ACL When I fought Islam. He pulled me off against the fence and my knee slid and I felt it. Terry felt like fire in my knee, you know. And when you feel pain in a fight, you know it's bad because you usually don't.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

But I felt it burning like fire.

[Joe Rogan]

But you didn't need surgery.

[Dustin Poirier]

Didn't need surgery. Did a bunch of physical therapy. Therapy. I had a partial tear. There's something called maybe a ligamentum or something that connects where your ACL is. Every time you tear your acl, the ligamentum is completely torn, always. And mine had a partial tear in that. So I must have took the weight off or we switched a position right before it tore my acl.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

But I had, like, bruising, you know, back of my leg was all bruised up. Couldn't bend it for a little bit.

[Joe Rogan]

But now it's 100.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. I feel great.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's interesting. Like Arnold out. No. Who was it that was telling me that, like, there's different people that have had different levels of tears. And then in those levels of tears, like, some of them you can come back from 100%, but some of them. Okay, this dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

A broken ankle too.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God. So this dude that. Try saying his name. How do you say his name?

[Dustin Poirier]

Gmer

[Joe Rogan]

so this is the guy, Mikey Musumichi. He was torn acl, torn mcl, torn meniscus, and a broken ankle. That's crazy. That's crazy.

[Dustin Poirier]

He did like a toe hold or something. How do you break his ankle?

[Joe Rogan]

So it was. Oh, is it. Brendan Allen was. Brendan Allen was in the podcast, he was telling me this. He tore his ACL completely and never got it fixed. And it reattached. Yeah, like at a slightly different angle, but reattached like it tore off, but it was still hanging in there and it re healed. I was like, that's nut. I never even heard of that before, but I know some people that have had like a three quarter tear and it heals, but it's not really the same. Right. It's still a little funky.

[Dustin Poirier]

You know, Brad Pickett fought his whole career with the torn, no ACL in one of his legs.

[Joe Rogan]

I think Justin has that situation.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Like, Brad would sit on the ground, on the mat and then grab his shin and slide it forward and you could see like the. The mo. The movement.

[Joe Rogan]

How does that not chew your meniscus?

[Dustin Poirier]

He fought so many fights like that.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my. Well, Rico Rodriguez did too. Rico always had a blown out acl. And he fought.

[Dustin Poirier]

Rico was down in Louisiana for a while, man. Rico Rodriguez was.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, he was one of the first Brazilian jiu jitsu black belts.

[Dustin Poirier]

I trained with him at Tim's gym before.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he's. He was really good on the ground, man. Man, Rico was really good on the ground. And he was a UFC heavyweight champion at one point in time.

[Dustin Poirier]

I know people forget, dude. I didn't even know who he was. I was sparring him and Tim was like, that's crazy. Was a heavyweight champion of the U.S. like, no way.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. Isn't that funny?

[Dustin Poirier]

He was out of shape, you know, I was like, who's this big tattooed guy? Let's go.

[Joe Rogan]

There's a lot of guys that people forgot they. They slept on. It's interesting when you think about that.

[Dustin Poirier]

He was running a gym in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I don't know if he still is.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Rico was.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, he had partnered with Baton Rouge in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

[Joe Rogan]

He.

[Dustin Poirier]

He took over in LA boxing. They. They turned it into a UFC gym now, but he was part owner or something. He was running it.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. It's a hard road when guys retire and people don't even remember them. Like, at least you. You have a giant name. Like, you're always going to be able to do seminars. You always. People are always going to want to bring you into events. You. You have a career no matter what. Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

I've been doing a lot of watch parties where I get with the fans and watch the fights. It's fun, man. I enjoy it.

[Joe Rogan]

That's cool. Cool.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's sometimes a little awkward because the fans will stick around too long. Like, I'm watching the fights with you, but you come sit at my booth and like, we run out of things to talk about.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like, okay, hey man, let me get your number. Like, hey, bro, all right.

[Dustin Poirier]

My buddy's on FaceTime. Can you talk to so and so? Like, dude, just chill.

[Joe Rogan]

I know some people just can't hang, dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

But I fought, like I said 19 years. I say 20, but it's 19 years that I fought until that Conor fight. Like, that's when things changed for me, recognition wise. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

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[Joe Rogan]

Wow, that's interesting. That's crazy because like the door open

[Dustin Poirier]

for seminars, for appearances, that's. That changed. Changed.

[Joe Rogan]

That's so weird.

[Dustin Poirier]

And I had been in so many UFC main events, I had fought for the belt, done all this stuff, but this, that guy's name, Jen, isn't it nuts?

[Joe Rogan]

Just personality got him so well, obviously very skilled for sure. Eddie Alvarez fight, that's to Connor in his prime form form when he was in the Aldo. Yes, Eddie, the Aldo fight was great, but because it was one shot and.

[Dustin Poirier]

And nobody's done that to Aldo ever, ever.

[Joe Rogan]

And since. That was amazing. But. But the Alvarez fight was him in the matrix. When the punches moving up, touching his nose and he's firing back those combinations. He was just in the zone. He was. That was.

[Dustin Poirier]

And Eddie's nose to Connor. Walk in the park.

[Joe Rogan]

No, Eddie's good, man. He's tough as fuck. When Eddie beat Dos Anjos, I was like, holy, man.

[Dustin Poirier]

I was always a big Eddie fan.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, he was always. Dream fights with Chandler. You want to talk about taking years off your life? Those fights that those two had that nobody was watching other than the hardcore guys, Those were. To this day, I tell people, you want to watch some chaos, watch Eddie Alvarez and Michael Chandler in Bellator. There's some of the best fights of all.

[Dustin Poirier]

Knock down, drag out, both guys.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, if you're a fan of chaos, watch those fights. Those fights were bananas. And so that's what we anticipated. When Chandler came over and then we knocked out Dan Hooker in the first round, I was like, oh, he's here.

[Dustin Poirier]

Same card. Same card as me and Connor.

[Joe Rogan]

But I think that it was too late. I think we. He had already suffered so much punishment and been so. If we got a hold of Michael Chandler like six, seven years before that when he was fighting in Bellator, this is the problem with pfl, this is the problem with Bellator. And I don't think it's a problem because I think these guys are prize fighters. You know, Like, I think Francis Ngannou said it best when he was talking about this Netflix card. They're saying someone said to him, do you think this is this with your legacy? He goes, legacy? Who's legacy for?

[Dustin Poirier]

For you?

[Joe Rogan]

He goes, keep your legacy. Give me my money, right? Give me my pay. This is what I'm supposed to be getting. I'm Francis Ngannou, and I think he's right. But he's Francis Ngannou. He's already the UFC Heavyweight champion. Left as the UFC heavyweight champion. But for a lot of these guys that are starting their career, their best years are in these other organizations. And not enough people know, like Johnny Eblin, perfect example you were talking about before he knocked out Leon Edwards, brother. I mean, he's good.

[Dustin Poirier]

I cornered him when he beat Musasi. Dude, Massasi's saucy's a legend. Grew up watching him. A legend.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. There's a guy, another one good guy that people forgot about. Gagar. Musasi was a.

[Dustin Poirier]

By the time he made it to the ufc, I was already such a big fan, but, like, the Casuals didn't know who he was.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, he was so good, dude. Gagar was so good. So smart, Right? Just so smart. So. And unassuming.

[Dustin Poirier]

Was it him who up kicked Jackar back?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Into a triangle.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep. Yeah. I think that was in Dream. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gagar was a beast, man. He was a beast. Eddie.

[Dustin Poirier]

Eddie Alvarez and Dream was bunch of good fights.

[Joe Rogan]

And Gagard stopped Weidman in the ufc.

[Dustin Poirier]

Really good fundamental boxing. Great jab.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Great everywhere.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Good wrestling. Good def Wrestling defense, but just super smart, too.

[Joe Rogan]

Just a very, very intelligent guy. He got put on the shelf with the Bellator deal. He got put on the shelf, and I don't know what's going on with him. What was a lot.

[Dustin Poirier]

I don't. He last fought, he might not even still be under contract with the. With PFL or whatever.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I think he's 40 now. Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

He was old in the UFC.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. He's got to be close to 40, if not older. Where. Where's Gaygard Musasi these days? Oh, he got drafted in the global fight. Canceled, I think. Oh, that thing.

[Dustin Poirier]

I knew that was a gonna fall apart from the jump. Whatever. Was weird when I was talking to coaches at American Top Team, and they were telling me, like, all these ex UFC fighters what their contracts were with this company. I was like, dude, they haven't even put on one show, and they're signing guys to these kind of contracts. I mean, the money was crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

So 2023 was his last fight. How old is he now? So he lost to Fabian Edwards, the same guy that eblin knocked out. 40.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Cornered Evelyn Dream catcher in that fight. Dude, he got cut so bad with an elbow. Like, I can see the vein in this. I have it in my phone. It was crazy. I have it in my phone. The vein's still intact. It didn't cut the vein, but you can see it.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, boy.

[Dustin Poirier]

Oh, it's pretty. Pretty gnarly.

[Joe Rogan]

And then he stopped him.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Elbow. Yeah, it was. We were in Ireland.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Eblin's a tough guy, man. And I think he's like one of those guys that's like, at the very top of the heap at 185. But again, I know about him, but how many people do. That's unfortunate.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, because he's been fighting. He's got another NFL for how many. How many years now?

[Dustin Poirier]

Well, he was Bellator. Bellator. And then they bought him.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, for how many years now?

[Dustin Poirier]

A long time. I mean, I think he might have had one or two fights when Bellator signed him. He got in early at Bellator, but he's a student, man. He's going to keep getting better. He's pretty young. Young, still submitting.

[Joe Rogan]

Mark Hunt's crazy. That's crazy, right? Anything how small he is. He's fought at 185 in the UFC and he submitted 260 pound Mark Hunt. Jaguar Mousasi was a beast.

[Dustin Poirier]

He was just technically Technique.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep, just technique, technique, toughness and intelligence. Just so crafty. Just so good everywhere. Good on the ground, good standing up

[Dustin Poirier]

and super patient man. Methodical.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

I've always been a fan of his.

[Joe Rogan]

There's a lot of those guys that just got. People forget about. They forgot, you know?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, a bunch.

[Joe Rogan]

I always tell you people. One guy that people underestimated because they didn't get to see him when he was in his prime or they just forgot is Masvidal. Oh, people forgot how good Masvidal is. Masvidal knocked out Eve Edwards with a head kick. Yeah. Bodog.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, bro. Masvidal in his prime was a. He was good when he knocked out Darren Till.

[Dustin Poirier]

Remember that, that switch step or.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God, yeah, of course. Switch step, I think caught him with

[Dustin Poirier]

a left hook, knocked him out in cold.

[Joe Rogan]

Cold.

[Dustin Poirier]

And he was a dog. Like, when he started focusing on his wrestling, he was a dog. And Strike force man at 55, like. Oh, yeah, he was a dog back then.

[Joe Rogan]

No, Masvidal was a beast, man.

[Dustin Poirier]

And he's good everywhere, man. He's good everywhere. He has good jiu jitsu, good wrestling, good kickboxing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he's good everywhere. I mean, when he went off the 170, that's not really his weight class. His real weight class was 55.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. But I think as he got older, he's.

[Joe Rogan]

It was hard.

[Dustin Poirier]

He's a big guy. He's a big guy. He has really thick legs and he's a little bit taller. Taller than me, for sure. But.

[Joe Rogan]

But like when he was really competitive, I feel like it was. Was at 55. Yeah, but I mean, like, he gave guys problems at 70. Like the, the Darren Till fight was at 70. He. A lot of guys up at 7, Cowboy Yep. Cowboy. Was that at 70?

[Dustin Poirier]

Body shot? 170.

[Joe Rogan]

Damn. Yeah. No, Masad. All people forgot. There's people. And then, you know, he was having those backyard fights in the Kimbo Slice days. Yeah, yeah. Which is crazy. The bare knuckle Kimbo fights. Kimbo Slice fights.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, man. Kimbo used to come to American Top Team. He used to bring his kids and stuff. It was crazy talking to him because I grew up watching his fights, you know.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he was like the first guy to become a legend on YouTube. Yeah. You know?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. Everybody knows who he is.

[Joe Rogan]

Plus, he looks so cool. The bald head and the beard and the hair in the back. Yeah, Everything was great.

[Dustin Poirier]

The braids in the back.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Super jacked. And just people up in the backyard. Yeah. Like, they were moving around.

[Dustin Poirier]

Like, I think he was a bodyguard or a driver for a guy in Miami who started a porn company. And that's how it started.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And they organized these fights.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Where they were just. No warm up, just. All right, let's go get out the car in the front.

[Dustin Poirier]

Front driveway and walk to the back and just start scrapping.

[Joe Rogan]

I know it's crazy, but as a

[Dustin Poirier]

kid, like, when that stuff came out as a kid, that was such a big thing to watch, you know, that we had to download it illegally on, like, lime wire or something back then.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

You know, that was wild times. And then to see him in the ufc, in the Ultimate Fighter, dude, what a journey that guy had.

[Joe Rogan]

I know what balls it took for him to do that, to enter into the UFC with, like, basically zero grappling. Yeah. Like really just kind of learning the sport. But, you know, good boxing.

[Dustin Poirier]

But I don't think, like, Jim. Not trained boxing, just natural ability and.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he definitely had some training. Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

The way he moved was even in the bare knuckle. The way he moved was like a boxer, a shell, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

Like a Mike Tyson movement. Movement.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. But it was, like, rudimentary. Remember when he fought Seth Petrozelli? Yeah, yeah. Like, last minute, Petroselli comes in. Last minute. Like, Ken Shamrock had some sort of a dispute with them and maybe got cut backstage or something instead of how to cut until, like, last minute, they swapped out Seth Petrozelli and he knocked him out. Yeah, I called that one. I called that one. Camera. No, I wasn't doing it. The commentary, I think it wasn't leading it.

[Dustin Poirier]

I think that bankrupt them or something. I don't know how, like, they.

[Joe Rogan]

That fight bankrupt them.

[Dustin Poirier]

I don't know if it bankrupt them, but after that happened. They didn't have many more shows after that.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I think they were going under anyway, unfortunately.

[Dustin Poirier]

I don't know how that fight would have bankrupt them, but.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, they had some guy who was a boxing guy who was running the whole thing. Was his name Gary Shaw?

[Dustin Poirier]

I don't. I don't know back then, I don't

[Joe Rogan]

remember either, but I, you know, like, it's hard to make money in these things, man. Like, those things are hard. It's cut like the UFC doesn't get the credit deserves in terms of the promotional machine. Like, that's a smooth running machine.

[Dustin Poirier]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That machine's been around for a long time. It's so polished. Between the production, all the guys in the truck, the directors, the producers, the

[Dustin Poirier]

best of the best.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's hard. And then you got all the best fighters, and it's like the product. So when they have a fight, like Holloway and. And Oliveira, and like, oh, this fight wasn't good. Like, that's a great fight, man. It's just you. You can't be a casual.

[Dustin Poirier]

People are just bloodthirsty.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You know, like this. Listen, to do that to Max Holloway is crazy. Do you not appreciate that? Go watch baseball wrestlers.

[Dustin Poirier]

Great grapplers have never done that to him.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. It's nuts. It's nuts if you think about it.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, it's exciting, man. The UFC is definitely the best at it with this whole Paramount thing. I was kind of. We'll see how it turns out. I was kind of worried, like, if you take pay per view off the table, how much is UFC going to put the biggest fights together? Because they don't need to sell pay per views. They're guaranteed money. You know, I was just wondering if that would not water it down, but we would get a bunch of weaker cards, and I'm still waiting to find out, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it is weird, right? Because with pay per view, you're always building it up so that people buy it. And then also points, like, the fighters get paid points. So how are fighters getting paid now?

[Dustin Poirier]

I've been asking. Every show work, I ask everybody. I want to know because I've, you know, my last few years in the

[Joe Rogan]

ufc, nobody's telling you.

[Dustin Poirier]

Nobody's telling me anything.

[Joe Rogan]

They keeping you in the dark?

[Dustin Poirier]

Keeping me in the dark?

[Joe Rogan]

What the is that keeping me in the dark, man?

[Dustin Poirier]

Because, you know, I was pay per view partner, multiple fights with the ufc, if there's. And that was always the thing. They kind of in this. In. In discussion about contracts and about future fights that they kind of held over you, like, right, you win this fight, one day you're going to fight for the belt, you're going to get pay per view, your life's going to change. That was always a carrot they hung like, to make, you know, to do anything to. That was the goal, to one day fight for the belt and get pay per view money. But now that that's gone, I mean, Conor's not going to fight even Justin at the White House. There's no way these guys aren't fighting with that backdoor money. So they must be just guaranteeing them a bigger per. I don't know.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I think Justin would fight no matter what, because it's for the title. This is his last fight.

[Dustin Poirier]

Well, that. Yeah, the title, the title.

[Joe Rogan]

But any paper that's at the White House, he's a patriot. It's the last fight. You know, I think he would fight no matter what. But, like, you know, Ronda Rousey, you know, she's promoting the Netflix fight she made. I don't know if you saw what she said, but she had this big, long speech about the UFC selling for $7 billion and these fighters aren't making enough money. And, you know, look, she made some good points. And the most important thing is that she gets the conversation out there, and it puts pressure on the UFC to pay people more, you know, and if Netflix can become successful at mma, if they can become successful putting cars together and pulling fighters away, like right now, they're doing a one off, right? It's one off, and it's kind of a gimmicky thing.

[Dustin Poirier]

And listen, this payroll is going to be crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

It's gonna be crazy.

[Dustin Poirier]

You got Rhonda, Francis, Nate, these.

[Joe Rogan]

Everybody's getting crazy money.

[Dustin Poirier]

The payroll is gonna be nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

But if anybody's got that kind of money, it's Netflix. They throw around a lot of ridiculous money. They make so much money, so they can kind of do that. The question is, are they going to do that more than once? So if they do that more than once, then what happens is it's all about the name of the fighters. Just like boxing. Like, if boxing. No one cares if it's Golden Boy. No, of course nobody cares about that. What they care about is who's fighting? Who is it Benavidez? Who's he fighting?

[Dustin Poirier]

Is he fighting?

[Joe Rogan]

Bivol. Let's go. That's a great fight, right? So if. If Netflix can kind of do the boxing thing on Netflix with, like, big name stars, they can be a Major player, and that will elevate everybody's pay scale. So as. As a lot of people like, oh, Rhonda, how could you turn her back on the UFC and talk like that? If she's. What she's saying doesn't make any sense, she can't say it. Right. So if what she's saying makes sense, then you have to go, she's got a point. Yeah, she's got a point. She's got a point. They sold it for seven billion dollars or whatever it is.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

They got this billion.

[Joe Rogan]

Seven billion dollar deal, whatever the deal was with Paramount. Not even selling it. Sold rights to it. Right. That makes sense. She's making sense. And so if she's saying this and Netflix listens, and if someone comes along, they're a shrewd businessman, they go looking. There's a lot of people, their contracts are coming up, and when these people's contracts are coming up, let's get into negotiations. And then all of a sudden, some people start drifting over. Yeah. So if, like, you get, like, an Islam, Makachev starts leaving, and they leave and go fight in Netflix, and then they can talk four or five top major contenders into doing. Look, it's a big ask.

[Dustin Poirier]

Look, I love the ufc. Spent my most of my professional career there, but I love seeing these other organizations come up and people making money. Like you said, it rises up every. Everything. It's more places for people to work. You know, it's.

[Joe Rogan]

It's great.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's only good.

[Joe Rogan]

Olivier Alba Mercier.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's only good.

[Joe Rogan]

A million dollars. Come on. In the pfl.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And I think he did it more than once. Right. Didn't he win the tournament twice or something like that?

[Dustin Poirier]

I'm not sure.

[Joe Rogan]

He definitely won it at least once.

[Dustin Poirier]

So the Canadian gangster.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. A guy who's not in the top 10 of the UFC, goes over to another organization, makes a million dollars. Okay. Okay. I don't know if that's sustainable for them. I don't know how they came up with that money.

[Dustin Poirier]

They got to be bleeding money out.

[Joe Rogan]

They have to be bleeding money. Nobody's watching.

[Dustin Poirier]

Or even guys like Pettis, who was a former world champion, who, you know, his contract was good in the ufc.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

Didn't choose not to resign with the ufc and he went to pfl. They had to be paying him big money.

[Joe Rogan]

They have to be. You know, so it's all competition, ultimately, is good for the most important thing, which is paying the fighters. Yeah. So I'm.

[Dustin Poirier]

And places to work. Like, if the UFC cuts You or something. You back, you know, 10 years ago, there's the only place to make money, right? They cut you. Now you got to get a job, maybe fight, try to get back in part time fighting. Like try to get. Now you can pivot and still have a career.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, this is the thing with Francis. When Francis left the pfl, everybody's like, well, now he's. Because he can't fight in the ufc. Can't. Like, I wanted him to come back to the ufc. And yeah, I was like, come on, can we figure out a way to stop happen. But Dana just does not want to have anything to do with them. Like, apparently they did not get along very well, which is like, I'm like, come on. Yeah, I don't come. Can I help? Can I in a room together and calm everybody down? But at the most important thing is

[Dustin Poirier]

he's still a guy I want to watch.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, he's the legit heavyweight champion. If you think about it. He never got beat in MMA as a heavyweight champion, you know, and then he fought Hen and Ferreira in pfl.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, it's another ATT guy, but it's

[Joe Rogan]

another one where it's like, who's watching that? I mean, and if you're watching it, you're just watching hardcore Francis, me and you. Yeah, yeah. Like, I mean, I want to know, like, what were the numbers for that fight? It's probably the biggest fight they ever put on.

[Dustin Poirier]

I don't think I've ever seen any numbers from PFL.

[Joe Rogan]

And I think like the crazy was like getting 20 million a fight. And he wanted his opponents to get a huge amount too. I forget what the. He had like a minimum amount his opponents would get in his contract. Respect.

[Dustin Poirier]

I didn't know that. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's awesome. That's part of his contract. I forget what the number was, but it was substantial. So Hen and Ferreira got a giant payday for that fight too. Good. It's like, how are they. Where are they getting? I guess they have Saudi money.

[Dustin Poirier]

I think they did for some of the shows because they went to Saudi Arabia to, to do some shows, but I don't know if they're backing them. The whole, the whole company.

[Joe Rogan]

You, you, you're gonna need something like Netflix, and Netflix can kind of pull it off because Netflix has a massive promotional machine and but they, they need big names. So, like, now that they have Nate and Mike Perry on the car too, like, okay, okay, so you got Nate, Mike Perry, you got Francis Phillip Lyns, you have Rhonda and Gina.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, now you have three interesting fights. Yeah, you're gonna need a few more.

[Dustin Poirier]

And it's on Netflix, so it's gonna be free. But even if Nate and Mike Perry was the head of the headliner, I would have bought that pay per view

[Joe Rogan]

100% when you don't have to buy it on Netflix. So this is what gets interesting. So if this fight goes on Netflix and gets 50 million views, it's gonna get a lot. Yeah, it could get more views than any fight ever. Yeah, it could. It's very possible that, that because Netflix is bigger than anything. If they got more views than anybody ever, that would be. But then YouTube might come along.

[Dustin Poirier]

Mixed martial arts event.

[Joe Rogan]

Hey guys, we're YouTube. We're even bigger than Netflix. YouTube is bigger than Netflix. YouTube is everywhere. And if they come up with some crazy if so if more players get involved in this and more people become free agents, it could get very interesting.

[Dustin Poirier]

Dude, it's crazy to see how far, far the sport has come because like back all these big companies wouldn't want to touch this human fighting back in the day. Now everybody wants a piece of the pie. I know, it's cool now. They know.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's cool now, right? That cage fighting became something that like corporate America wants to get involved.

[Dustin Poirier]

Dude, I'm in the airport, I'm in the grocery store. Grandmothers old, you know, ladies are walking up to me talking about fights, which is insane, insane, insane. Because 15 years ago it was loves it. Bearded guys with tattoos would be in the grocery store, we'd whisper about it, you know, it was frowned upon. We'd talk about fight club, you know. Now it's like soccer moms. Did you see the fight last week in the arm bar? I'm like, what are you talking about?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that's all the ufc. UFC with that one deal. The Fertitas have such huge balls because they were down $40 million when they made that deal for Spike TV to do the Ultimate Fighter. And they were like, we're hemorrhaging money. And they were talking about selling it.

[Dustin Poirier]

And just a perfect storm step in and forest. And the world was watching, man. And it felt special. I remember being at my mother's house. I knew I was watching something special. Yeah, like this is special.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. It was crazy being there live too. It was so nuts. It was so nuts to watch it evolve and watch it burst out. And by then, by 2005, I had already been working for them for like 4 years. Cuz I. Well, I started in 97 with the old owners, and I did, like, the backstage and post fight interviews, and then I did it for a little bit. Then I had to quit. I was like, this is costing me money. Yeah, I made more money going to a comedy club for a weekend than I would flying to Dothan, Alabama City, Louisiana. But I was happy. I did it because it was fun and this is exciting. And I remember me and Eddie Bravo back then. We're like, man, you know what the UFC needs? This is like, literally a conversation we had in, like, 98. They need some crazy billionaires that love the sport to just dump a bunch of money in it, because we know it's exciting. It's just the rest of the world doesn't know. And along came the Fertittas, and they did it. Did.

[Dustin Poirier]

They saw it and rode that vision out. And it paid off.

[Joe Rogan]

It's nuts. Paid off, literally, like, exactly what we said needed to happen. And then for that fight to happen in the Ultimate Fighter between Stefan Bonner and Forest Griffin, because it was a perfect kind of fight, was. It was so evenly matched, it was so chaotic, and they knew each other so well from being in the house. House together. They just went after it for three solid rounds. the end, both guys were like. But dude had nothing.

[Dustin Poirier]

How could the idea of the actual Kumite, idea of putting the best fighters from all over the world, whatever discipline they train in, let's find out. Was the bet. That's. I mean, it has. It's. Of course it's going to succeed. It's chaos.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's everything you want to see.

[Joe Rogan]

And the crazy thing, it was really kind of invented as a showcase for Gracie Jiu Jitsu, because the Ohrian was like, you know, like, look, Jiu jitsu's gonna prevail. And he was kind of right.

[Dustin Poirier]

No, I mean, at first, dude, Hoist was in there against Giants.

[Joe Rogan]

Dan Severn, dude, come on, Chemo.

[Dustin Poirier]

What do you weigh, 180 pounds, 190 pounds?

[Joe Rogan]

Maybe not even. Maybe even 176 fighting these bodybuilders. And I asked him why they pick him. He goes, look at this face. Look how beautiful I am. I'm so good looking.

[Dustin Poirier]

That's why they picked me wearing pajamas. We even know what a GI was, was.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I had no idea Jiu Jitsu was that. That effective. I was so confused. Yeah, I was like, someone's going to kick him. He's. Someone got to punch him. And no, like, he's just taking dudes to the ground. That stomp and like, no idea of

[Dustin Poirier]

anything that they're doing. Just letting him pass guard, letting him do anything. You don't know anything.

[Joe Rogan]

He's choking guys with the GI too. He's grabbing his own lapel. I'm like, oh, this is wild.

[Dustin Poirier]

That's one thing I do like. I got away from the geese. So from white belt to brown belt, I competed ibjjf every tournament I could, would do my weight class, would do absolute get the reps. I love Jiu Jitsu, but I probably around 2011, 2012, I stopped putting the GI on. You know, it was all a mixed martial arts training because I was getting. Before I would use Jiu Jitsu to prepare for fights at a small school I was at. But when I went to American Top Team, I didn't need it anymore because I had such high level guys, guys on the mats at all times. I was doing Jiu Jitsu, no GI every day. But it's been so many years since I've put on a GI and had like a Jiu Jitsu practice, man. And even the practices I do now are all no gi.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It's fun.

[Dustin Poirier]

I want to get back into gee.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Gee's fun.

[Joe Rogan]

But Eddie Bravo said it best. He goes, if you were a professional tennis player, would you practice for tennis by playing racquetball? No, you wouldn't, right? You would play tennis. You would do the thing that you do. If you want to get really good at MMA Jiu Jitsu, you need to do no gift ghee. Yeah, and he's right.

[Dustin Poirier]

I mean, ghee definitely helps as well, but you got to do no gi.

[Joe Rogan]

What ghee does is it teaches you that you have to be technical with your defense because you can't muscle out of things.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But the reality is, like, you should just be technical with no gi.

[Dustin Poirier]

For sure.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the thing. Like, get out of the thing.

[Dustin Poirier]

Sure.

[Joe Rogan]

I always say that the best Jiu Jitsu is to learn Jiu Jitsu from a small guy.

[Dustin Poirier]

Like, all technique.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, like. Like a Barrett, Yoshida, Hoyer, Gracie, Eddie, Bravo. Like learn Jiu Jitsu from small people.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because they're all technique. They can't muscle out of things. You learn Brazilian Jiu Jitsu from some big giant, like their. Their game is going to be so different because they're so strong. Right. But like, look at, like the Sambo guys. Look at the Makachevs and Khabibs. Like that. That's the game of no gi. That's no gi. It's like their. Their nogi game is finely polished.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Finally, that's. It's not going to help them to wear a gi. Right. Their game wouldn't be better. Like, Khabib's game wouldn't have been better.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's all top. You never see these guys on their back in the guard. It's a different. It's a different speed. It's jiu jitsu, but it's a different, different game.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

What they do, small, small changes on the locks, like we were saying with the darth choke, grabbing your forearm. They do things a little bit different, man. Even their wrestling like is. Is different. It's not collegial, fundamental wrestling that you would teach at a wrestling camp. It's just chain wrestling that they kind of developed and have their own style, man. It's different.

[Joe Rogan]

It really is interesting. And then, you know, when I've talked to Daniel, he's like, dude, I've seen could be put it on like high level amateur wrestlers in the gym put it on them. And I believe it too. I mean, he's just. His discipline when he was in his prime and his discipline was just above and beyond his discipline, his drive, his focus. And there's something to be said for those guys too, because they're super religious. So there's no party and there's no drinking. There's no chasing women. There's no. It's just drive, drive, drive, drive. Right. You know, and that collecting the legs that he does with the triangle underneath the legs when he's in mount against the fence. So hard to get out.

[Dustin Poirier]

Everybody's doing it now, you know, the wrist ride the handcuff. He's doing. Everybody's doing it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he. I mean, it's been really interesting to watch like these dominant forces come along and like sort of remap the landscape of the game, you know, and we've seen it with them, especially in such

[Dustin Poirier]

a high stakes game. How do you do it that many times without catching a heel to the face, without catching a knee? You know, the guys he's fought so many dangerous guys, he's just drowned them, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

I know. Well, you know, Islam got caught in that one fight. Got knocked out.

[Dustin Poirier]

Adriana Martinez. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. But it just shows you as a human being.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. It can happen to anyone.

[Joe Rogan]

Can happen to anybody. And the glacon t bout fight with. With Khabib, I feel like Gleason won that.

[Dustin Poirier]

Oh, man. I know a lot of people always talk about that.

[Joe Rogan]

I feel like Glen won that fight.

[Dustin Poirier]

Me and t. Bob have been training partners For. So we beat each other up so much. He's such a fun guy, man. Such a good dude.

[Joe Rogan]

He's another guy. Like, how the are you? 155?

[Dustin Poirier]

So much energy. Dude never complains about anything. He could have 50 pound weight cut, smiling in the sauna. Just happy to be here. Just hope he just hope both teams have fun.

[Joe Rogan]

That's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome.

[Dustin Poirier]

Just a happy go guy, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Just. I watched that fight again because I was like, am I talking out of school? Should I shut the up? And I watched it again. I go, no, I think he won.

[Dustin Poirier]

Was it a split?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't remember. I don't remember if it was split,

[Dustin Poirier]

but he was stopping takedowns.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And he was a tank. That guy was a tank. He was big. He was big and jacked, dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

Probably five, eight, five seven.

[Joe Rogan]

A little saucy.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe. I don't know.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know either. I don't know. Skillful, super skillful, you know, solid striking, solid Jiu jitsu.

[Dustin Poirier]

Oh, great.

[Joe Rogan]

Jiu jitsu, very good. Everywhere. Black belt Jiu jitsu. Strong as. And just, you know, they knew from

[Dustin Poirier]

an early age because I think his middle name is Herculino. I'm serious.

[Joe Rogan]

That's hilarious. Yeah, Herculino.

[Dustin Poirier]

Herculino.

[Joe Rogan]

Brazilians have some of the faunus.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. He might have eight names, you know, I bet. Yeah, yeah. Gleason, Tiba, Alves, Herculino. A few other things that I'm missing, I'm sure. I'm serious, though. Johnny Gleason, maybe T Bow. I don't know. He has a few names.

[Joe Rogan]

That's fun.

[Dustin Poirier]

I'm being serious.

[Joe Rogan]

Really. He's got a bunch of names that nobody knows. That's hilarious, man. Well, at American Top Team, man, you probably have seen more elite talent come through those doors, shout out to Dan Lambert.

[Dustin Poirier]

Well, Dan's a man.

[Joe Rogan]

That motherfucker. Put the money in. Put the time in. When there was no money to be made. There was no. That guy was.

[Dustin Poirier]

He just loved it. It was a passion thing.

[Joe Rogan]

And just thank. It's just like what we said with the ufc. We need a rich guy to come along and just throw the money at it. Like, that's what Dan did with American Top Team. I remember when he was putting together the. The. The new American Top Team facilities. And you show me. We're gonna have dorms, we're gonna have this. I'm like. I was like, this dude's trying to go broke. Like, what are you doing, dude? It's huge.

[Dustin Poirier]

And that area is crazy expensive. It's on a huge piece of land.

[Joe Rogan]

I need to get Dan in here.

[Dustin Poirier]

I know for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

I talked to him about it before. But he deserves. He deserves the credit because that guy,

[Dustin Poirier]

dude, honestly, like, him building the gym and asking fighters for 5%, which is, you know, crazy unheard of. Other gyms are taking crazy amounts. You know, he's giving you all these amenities, giving you a place to stay. At one point, he had houses as well, fighter houses that he bought, and he would put fighters up in the houses for camps and stuff. Dude, I've heard of him paying. Covering medical bills that fighters didn't have money for, never getting paid back.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep.

[Dustin Poirier]

Like all types. He's done so much stuff, man. Yeah, a good. Good for the sport. Solid, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Amazing for the sport. And if he didn't put together that super gym, who knows how many of these super gyms would have ever evolved? Because he kind of set the blueprint for what. What a gym could be. To this day, that's still the best gym in the world in terms of, like, super gym.

[Dustin Poirier]

So much knowledge, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. And so many knowledge, so much equipment. It's so big, it's so well made.

[Dustin Poirier]

And you never know who's going to be on the mat at any time. You walk in and do an MMA class, there's literally thousands of mixed martial arts bout experience on the mat at any time.

[Joe Rogan]

Was Robbie his first world champion been?

[Dustin Poirier]

I was there for every camp when Robbie came over.

[Joe Rogan]

I feel like it might have been like, there was like, everybody was like, dan Lambert deserves a world champion. Someone's got to be a world champion.

[Dustin Poirier]

Robbie might have been the first, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it might have been the first.

[Dustin Poirier]

Well, I mean, Mike Brown was wc. Yeah, there's been.

[Joe Rogan]

But UFC champion Robbie Lawler was number one.

[Dustin Poirier]

I remember when he came over, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Hey, how was pantoa? Do you know how his elbow.

[Dustin Poirier]

I don't know how the injury is, but it has to be bad if they're skipping him and going with this.

[Joe Rogan]

I know.

[Dustin Poirier]

Other title fight.

[Joe Rogan]

I know.

[Dustin Poirier]

I was there, like, two weeks ago. I went down to help some buddies. I spent a week there. I didn't see Pantoja at all.

[Joe Rogan]

So it was so nasty. But what was really weird was like, when Megan Olivi was talking to us, they were saying that he dislocated his shoulder. And I was like, what? What? Like, what are you talking about? His elbow went out. Like, I'm watching his elbow.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, it looked like the elbow.

[Joe Rogan]

I said, no, but I think they. The doctor had misspoke. And I'm 99 sure that it was actually the elbow that went out. Because the elbow clearly moves and it caves in and gives out.

[Dustin Poirier]

Right. And when that happens, ligaments, muscles, everything gets damaged, but I just don't know the extent.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's too bad because also Pantoja is older and he's older and dominant in flyweight, which is very hard to do.

[Dustin Poirier]

It sucks at any time to see a fight in like that.

[Joe Rogan]

Terrible. But especially a title fight.

[Dustin Poirier]

Especially a title fight. Especially on the streak he was on, defending the belt like it just.

[Joe Rogan]

Man, not just that.

[Dustin Poirier]

And he's such a hard worker and such a quiet guy and just a

[Joe Rogan]

good dude, you know, He's a savage too. I think he's one of the greatest of all time. In the post fight, Dana said something about the shoulder also. They popped his shoulder back in. I thought it was the elbow. Well, it was the El. It says it's not the elbow. It was his shoulder. It's his elbow as well, though. It's gotta. That's weird.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Follow up, Post said there was no ligament damage, but I was trying to find updated. So even if there's no ligament damage, there could be cartilage damage.

[Dustin Poirier]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot of other.

[Dustin Poirier]

Anytime something bends the way it's not supposed to, and soft tissues, his weight

[Joe Rogan]

and Joshua Van's weight, all on one arm posted. And that arm gives out. But damn, dude, when he fought that Japanese cat, who was that guy?

[Dustin Poirier]

Ran through him when Pantosia did.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Like, you just see how good he is. When he fought Kai Car, France ran through him. I was like, this dude is on fire right now.

[Dustin Poirier]

He's good, man.

[Joe Rogan]

He's on fire. I think Panto is one of the best of all time.

[Dustin Poirier]

And dude, not loud, not flashy, quiet. He'll walk in the gym, go be in practice, you won't notice him. Just working. Always does his work. Just working.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, just focused. Just a soldier.

[Dustin Poirier]

I love to see that though, man. Cuz like a few years before he was the. The world, I mean, the Flyway champion, he was driving Uber or Uber Eats, like just trying to making, you know, scrapping to get bills paid. And you see a guy. That's what makes fighting so special though, you know, Like Teddy Atlas has a speech about it, but it's like, where else can you be from? Any discipline, any creed, anything, any background, and call yourself the world, the champion of the world, like so powerful. On any given night, you can go against the odds and be a Buster Douglas or be an Uber Eats driver and be the world champion, you know, a couple years later. Like, it's just special, man. Fighting. Combat is special.

[Joe Rogan]

It is special and it is the end all of all sports. Like, if someone shoots a basket and they make a three pointer on you, you're like, okay, but I could still you up, you know, no one says after you fuck them up, yeah, but I could score a basket on you. No one cares, dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's the.

[Joe Rogan]

The end of all sports.

[Dustin Poirier]

The end of all everything. The middle. The best middle school comeback somebody could be. Can't beat me, though. Yeah, can't beat me though. That was like, they come back for anything. Can't beat me though, though. Like, that's the top of the line.

[Joe Rogan]

The best.

[Dustin Poirier]

The top challenge.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Dustin Poirier]

The top challenge.

[Joe Rogan]

Doesn't matter if you're better at backgammon, right?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, you dunked on me. But I'll beat your ass.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Beating someone's ass is the. That's the end goal. That's what all sports aspire to be.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Is combat sports. So do you have plans for stuff you want to do outside of fighting now? Like, now that you're retired and now you're settling in?

[Dustin Poirier]

Be a good dad, be a good husband. That's my. That's my goal, as always. But I have a few other businesses, you know, I've had for years. I got a documentary.

[Joe Rogan]

Got a great hot sauce.

[Dustin Poirier]

Got a great hot sauce.

[Joe Rogan]

That hot sauce is legit. Well, let's. That.

[Dustin Poirier]

Thank you, man.

[Joe Rogan]

It's legit.

[Dustin Poirier]

Poirier's Louisiana style hot sauce. It's not white label. We made this.

[Joe Rogan]

We developed it, dude. It's very good.

[Dustin Poirier]

Thank you. I'm proud of it. I'm proud of it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. When you sent it to me, I was like, okay, I'll try it. I'm like, oh, it's legit. Vinegar based.

[Dustin Poirier]

Vinegar based. Cayenne pepper.

[Joe Rogan]

Very good. Yeah, Very good hot sauce.

[Dustin Poirier]

Thank you, man. I put a little celery in there.

[Joe Rogan]

You can tell. You put some work into that. That.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah, I didn't want it to. There's so many vinegar based hot sauces on a shelf. You know, you get lost in that and the shelf space is so hard to get. I learned. I'm learning all this business stuff as I move forward, you know, and now that I'm done fighting, I get to really see where the hot sauce is. Cuz every fight, every promotion, I got to talk about it. And sales always around every fight. Were Great. But now we're going to level off and see what kind of stride we have.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's legit, man. It's. I. I recommend it highly.

[Dustin Poirier]

Thank you, man.

[Joe Rogan]

It's very good. Good.

[Dustin Poirier]

Besides that, I have a few businesses in Lafayette, and I'm really getting excited to have a documentary coming out this year. The same guys who made my first documentary, fightville, I don't know if you've seen it, came out in 2011. It was on Netflix, actually did a premiere here at south by Southwest. Showtime picked it up. But the same company that did that, Pepper and Bones, is doing my retirement documentary. So they did the whole last training camp, camp filmed. They live in Germany, so they would fly down, stay with in camp. They did the whole fight week in New Orleans. Then they came back down for Thanksgiving, this recent Thanksgiving, and finished up the documentary. And they have hundreds of hours of footage, unreleased, from when I was 17, 18 years old.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa.

[Dustin Poirier]

So they got the. They got the whole journey.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa.

[Dustin Poirier]

Just randomly. This guy was filming a war veteran who turned. He was doing a. Him and his wife are documentary makers, and they were following this guy who just got back from the Middle east, and he happened to be a fighter. And I met the guy at a fight show I fought on. He was filming the other guy for a war film, started talking. Then he just, man, I'm interested in you. Let me start. Started filming me. And then, dude, now I have all this hundreds hours of footage of me fighting amateur small shows behind the scenes at my house, like, as a kid did.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, that's incredible.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. So we're gonna put it all into this documentary.

[Joe Rogan]

Dude, that's awesome. That's amazing. Well, listen, brother, whatever you do, you know, if you put the same energy that you put into becoming a great fighter, you'd be great at anything you do. That's just the beautiful thing about doing the most difficult thing is everything else is definitely going to be easier.

[Dustin Poirier]

I want to go back to the difficult thing. I don't want the easy path, man.

[Joe Rogan]

It's so hard to let it go. Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's hard to be as like. Like I tell my wife, I say this bit a little lot. Be a civilian. To go from fight life every day for. For so long to being a civilian, it's like I'm relearning who I am.

[Joe Rogan]

Maybe a couple boxing matches. Maybe the UFC let you out.

[Dustin Poirier]

I would love to.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you think the UFC let you out of contract, do some boxing matches?

[Dustin Poirier]

Nope, I don't think so. Unless the pot was Big enough to wear? I don't think so. They should, but I'm not fighting Floyd Mayweather. The pot ain't going to be big enough.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Dustin Poirier]

You know, cuz there was a Russian company that wanted me and Nate to buy Bucks.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh. And UFC said no.

[Dustin Poirier]

I didn't even bring it to him. Ariel Hawani hit me up and said, hey, any interest in this? I have interest, but I didn't want to bring it to Hunter and Dana. I didn't want to ask him.

[Joe Rogan]

Give it a try. Yeah, give it a try. See what happens after this.

[Dustin Poirier]

I tried to do the benefit. I tried to let's do it in zoofu boxing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's silly that they don't want to do any crossovers, but I get it, dude.

[Dustin Poirier]

I don't know if I want any more head trauma either, Joe.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Poirier]

I want to raise my son signing.

[Joe Rogan]

That's true too. That's true too.

[Dustin Poirier]

I have 50 something fights.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. That's true too. Maybe just let it go.

[Dustin Poirier]

It'll never be gone.

[Joe Rogan]

Keep it in the back of your head. Just work out.

[Dustin Poirier]

It'll never be gone. I want to take. I want to take care of my head. I'm never gonna stop. And I hope William's there tonight.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he'll be there tonight for sure.

[Dustin Poirier]

I didn't. I didn't message him.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, who's there? William Montgomery. Shout out to William. I didn't even catch that you were saying that. And when you were jumping guillotine.

[Dustin Poirier]

Oh, in Miami.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Never gotta stop.

[Dustin Poirier]

I didn't realize.

[Joe Rogan]

And then everybody online told me, oh, he's doing William Montgomery.

[Dustin Poirier]

I was like, oh, my God, how did I miss that? I was 100% doing William Montgomery. But also, I give you the benefit of the doubt, dude. My delivery was kind of bad. It wasn't the exact.

[Joe Rogan]

I was just so focused. When I'm doing post fight interviews, I'm just always so focused in trying to get everything out of the fighter that they want to say. That's all I'm thinking of was what can I ask him that can help them better express themselves after this big victory?

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, so it's like I was

[Dustin Poirier]

the underdog and Mike, every time I went to the corner, he's like, stop jumping guillotines. You're giving up takedowns. You're not going to get.

[Joe Rogan]

Cut it out. Don't do it. I'm like, was that the Ben never going to stop. Yeah. Yeah. That was a great victory too, man. That was a good one.

[Dustin Poirier]

Yeah. With the streak. He's on this. Aging. Aging well. Aging well now.

[Joe Rogan]

Very well. Listen, brother, you're an all time great. It's an honor, so cool to have you here again.

[Dustin Poirier]

Thank you for having me.

[Joe Rogan]

And congratulations on an amazing career. Thank you. And like I said, you're gonna kill it with whatever you do, whatever you do in life.

[Dustin Poirier]

Try to be. I'm gonna try to do the desk work and see where that goes, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. And buys hot sauce. It's legit.

[Dustin Poirier]

You heard? All right, thank you, sir.

[Joe Rogan]

Bye, everybody. Foreign.

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[Joe Rogan]

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[Joe Rogan]

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[Joe Rogan]

There's a world where legends race across city skylines. Romance blossoms in glittering ballrooms. And there's magic around every corner.

[Dustin Poirier]

It's a world known to many as Great Britain.

[Joe Rogan]

You've seen the action on screen. Now visit the real star of the show. Show. Visit Great Britain. To discover more, go to tripadvisor. Com Great Britain.