JRE MMA Show #177 - Protect Ya Neck

Summary

The Joe Rogan Experience MMA Show #177 – Protect Ya Neck

Date: April 10, 2026
Guests: Matt Serra, Jim Norton, Eddie Bravo

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Episode Overview

In this packed and lively MMA Show episode, Joe Rogan reunites with Matt Serra, Jim Norton, and Eddie Bravo for a sprawling, freewheeling discussion covering everything from wild stories in MMA history, upcoming Netflix and UFC cards, fighter legacies, MMA judging and rules, behind-the-scenes tales, and the nerd world of TV, comics, video games, and sci-fi. The crew’s conversational chemistry keeps the tone playful and irreverent while diving deep into pivotal MMA moments, technical debates, and broader life topics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tommy Lee vs. Kid Rock UFC Story

• The group opens (00:20–06:12) with a hilarious retelling of Tommy Lee wanting to fight Kid Rock in the UFC to win Pamela Anderson's heart. The idea originated from backroom drama and was floated to both musicians, but Kid Rock's team allegedly declined:
  • “Whoever loses is ruined for life... because they both had the rock and roll tough guy image.” – Eddie Bravo (06:03)
• Rogan and crew joke about the entertainment value and what could have been a massive celebrity MMA payday.

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2. Evolution of MMA & Iconic Fights

• The importance of The Ultimate Fighter and legendary bouts (06:46–08:16), especially Bonner vs. Griffin igniting mainstream interest.
• Diego Sanchez’s unique career, open-mindedness, and his infamous association with Joshua Fabia (07:28–08:11).
  • “He was willing to believe in magic... He was doing weird stuff like chewing meat and spitting it out.” – Joe Rogan (07:43)

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3. BJ Penn: Unrivaled Talent & The ‘King of Hawaii’

• Deep dive into BJ Penn’s greatness at lightweight, his flexibility, and his legendary camps (10:49–14:32).
• Discussion of Penn’s background, talent, and famous in-cage moments:
  • “BJ was a monster in his prime.” – Joe Rogan (12:01)
  • “He could do double Lotus without using his hands.” – Joe Rogan (13:54)
• The challenges of staying focused amid fame and Hawaii's party lifestyle (12:44).

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4. Rules & Equipment: Knees, Cups, and Safety Debates

• Spirited arguments (14:35–20:30) about the legitimacy and safety of knees to the head, steel cups, and inconsistent MMA rules:
  • “If you can kick in the knees, you should be able to kick in the nuts.” – Joe Rogan (16:13)
  • On steel cups: “It’s like you have an armor plate over your dick... that’s legal?” – Jim Norton, Joe Rogan (19:26–19:36)

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5. Coaching, Celebrities & The Athlete-Entertainer Crossover

• Praise for MMA coach Mark DellaGrotte, Kevin James' legit skills, and the value of good coaching and gym cultures (22:00–23:56).
• Kevin James surprising everyone with his work ethic and pad skills.

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6. Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon & Female Badasses

• Major sidetrack into TV nerdery (24:07–29:45), analyzing feminist themes in Game of Thrones:
  • “It is a completely feminist series, but without... any fanfare, the baddest people are the women.” – Joe Rogan (26:12)
• Comparing old and new fantasy/sci-fi projects and what makes compelling characters.

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7. MMA Judging: 10-Point System and Its Flaws

• Heated critique (34:04–36:19) of MMA’s boxing-derived scoring system:
  • “The scoring system sucks because we stole it from boxing... It should be like 100 points.” – Joe Rogan (34:28)
• Calls for more liberal use of 10-8 and 10-7 rounds.

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8. Aljamain Sterling’s Place in the Division

• Analysis and defense of Aljo’s skills, public perception after the Yan fights, and hopes for his title resurgence (38:58–41:56).
• “He’s a nightmare for everybody, especially if he gets a hold of you.” – Joe Rogan (40:56)

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9. Netflix MMA Event: Structure, Business, and Matchups

• Excitement and skepticism (45:05–47:56) about Netflix’s big MMA event and whether its business model is sustainable.
• Analysis of star bouts: Gina Carano vs. Ronda Rousey, Nate Diaz vs. Mike Perry, Ngannou vs. Felipe Lins.
  • “Whoever’s putting the money up for this is going to lose their ass.” – Eddie Bravo (45:32)
  • “Diaz vs. Perry—guaranteed dog fight.” – Joe Rogan (47:45)

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10. Technical Deep Dives, Standout Fighters, and Recent Performances

• Lorenz Larkin’s unique striking, Bellator crossovers (48:31–50:03).
• Aaron Pico’s knockouts, dangers of repeated KOs (50:15–51:13).
• Alexa Grasso’s KO–choke combination: a historic finish.
• Worries about fighters with medical conditions (seizures in combat sports).

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11. Tales from MMA History & OG Grappler Legacies

• Fabulous tales (62:03–64:44) about Mark Kerr, Morello Bustamante, and the Carlson Gracie team.
• Reverence for the physicallity and heart of earlier generations:
  • “But Jiu Jitsu was so physical then... now it's so intellectual. And, like, these nerds think they own it...” – Matt Serra (66:28)

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12. Best Jiu Jitsu in MMA Today

• Charles Oliveira and Islam Makhachev’s ground games debated (67:40–69:43).
• Paul Craig’s triangle victories and Fabricio Werdum’s legendary submissions.
• “If you want to look at one of all time greats in heavyweight... In the prime, who has tapped out more legends than Fabricio Werdum?” – Joe Rogan (71:43)

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13. Youth, Motivation, The Fighter’s Life

• Reflections on giving young fighters too much/too little money, athletes’ motivations, staying hungry even with wealth (90:40–91:25).
• Gable Steveson compared to Mike Tyson in MMA potential.

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14. Society, Technology, and Escapism

• Jokes and commentary (107:18–119:03) about the value of escaping with TV, games, and comics—contrasted with the need to "do what you want in life."
• “Too many people out there not doing what they want to do. That’s a hell.” – Joe Rogan (119:10)

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15. Pop Culture, Nerd Fandom, and Comedy

• The latter part explodes into nerd banter about Marvel, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and VR gaming (141:23–162:59).
• Jim Norton’s VR obsession, Matt Serra’s nerd channel, and the hazards of getting sucked into gaming as an adult.
• “I remember when I was in high school, I found out Madonna was 26, I was like, oh, she’s old.” – Joe Rogan (162:59)

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16. Aging in MMA: How to Stay Young

• Reflection on feeling young through training and community, even as the hosts enter their 50s and 60s (163:30–165:16).
  • “I mean, when we were growing up, though, 60 was broken down. It’s a big difference now.” – Eddie Bravo (164:08)

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17. Upcoming UFC at the White House: Weather, Logistics, Stakes

• Anticipation and concern for the outdoor White House UFC event:
  • “If you’re fighting a world championship level, you should be fighting in a controlled environment, period.” – Joe Rogan (184:22)
• Gagey vs. Ilya, Paulo Costa’s move to 205, and unique factors like weather, lightning, and media spectacle.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Tommy Lee UFC drama recap:
  “What makes people think they can do this? ...it’s for Pam Anderson’s heart.” – Matt Serra & Jim Norton (01:26)

• On BJ Penn:
  “He was a human Wolverine... a natural 55er, who fought as low as 45... BJ was a monster in his prime.” – Joe Rogan (10:56, 11:53, 12:01)

• On steel cups:
  “Your dick is metal. Your dick’s covered in metal. And that’s legal?” – Jim Norton (19:27)

• On old-school Jiu Jitsu:
  “But Jiu Jitsu was so physical then. Like, it was a physical thing. Now it’s so intellectual. And like these nerds think they own it.” – Matt Serra (66:28)

• Regarding UFC at the White House:
  “That could be it... Imagine someone died from getting hit by lightning.” – Joe Rogan (187:10)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Tommy Lee vs. Kid Rock story: 00:20–06:12
• Ultimate Fighter & Bonner/Griffin: 06:46–08:16
• Diego Sanchez & Fabia: 07:28–08:11
• BJ Penn’s legacy: 10:49–14:32
• Steel cup and safety rules debate: 16:13–20:30
• Mark DellaGrotte & Kevin James: 22:00–23:56
• Game of Thrones as feminist show: 26:04–29:45
• MMA Judging/10 Point System: 34:04–36:19
• Aljo’s public perception: 38:58–41:56
• Netflix MMA card lineup: 45:05–47:56
• Oblique kicks (Larkin) analysis: 48:31–50:03
• Macy Barber knockout: 50:47–52:56
• Reverence for MMA legends (Bustamante, Kerr, etc.): 62:03–64:44
• Charles Oliveira & Islam’s ground games: 67:40–69:43
• Paul Craig’s triangles: 71:14–72:42
• Younger generations and aging: 163:00–164:16
• White House UFC event logistics: 183:03–185:03

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Final Reflections

This episode is a raucous celebration of fight history, culture, trivia, and nostalgia, offering serious insight, hilarious tangents, and authentic behind-the-scenes flavor. Rogan and friends mix hard-won wisdom, technical debate, and lighthearted jabs, making this podcast a must-listen for both hardcore MMA fans and pop culture nerds.

Transcript

[Matt Serra]

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

[Jim Norton]

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Hello, boys.

[Joe Rogan]

We're back in action.

[Matt Serra]

We're back.

[Joe Rogan]

We were just talking and I saw to get off. I told Rallo, save this for the air. Because Rallo, years ago, shit, this had to be like, at least 10 years ago.

[Eddie Bravo]

20, 20. It was like 2006, 2007.

[Joe Rogan]

So 20 years ago, Rallo calls me up and he says, tommy Lee wants to meet you. He wants to talk to you about something. I go, okay, sure. So we go to see his concert. That was when he was at Rock and Roll Supernova TV show.

[Eddie Bravo]

That's right.

[Joe Rogan]

So you had a TV show?

[Eddie Bravo]

Was in Long Beach.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right. You and Eddie came, me and Eddie Bravo came. And then afterwards, first of all, Tommy Lee has the. The dopest green room. Like, he sets his green room up like a after hours party. He's got, like, tapestries on the wall and candles and light. Yeah. You walk in, like, damn, like, gear.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He doesn't just walk into a cold green room. Like, I'm lazy.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

If I go on the road, I just. What? What's your green room? I'll go hang out in there. Like, it doesn't just walk, but he has it set up. Like, everywhere is, like, calm and relaxing and spiritual. And so I meet Tommy, and Tommy wants a fight. Kid Rock in the ufc.

[Jim Norton]

This was true.

[Matt Serra]

What makes people think they can do this?

[Jim Norton]

It's for Pam Anderson's heart.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

Wait, this is how it started. This is kind of how it started. That was that way with Pam.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

Like, you know, they both were married to her, so Tommy and her are always going to be connected because of the kids. So she had split up with Kid Rock and. And Kid Rock was emailing her, texting her, I guess, you know, still trying to get with her. Tommy is with her, not together, but, you know, they were together that day and he. She asked him, you know, you're friends with him, can you call him and tell him to stop calling me and shit. And Tommy's like, I don't want to get in the middle of that shit.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, boy.

[Eddie Bravo]

And she's like, you know, if, you know, please. So he winds up hitting, you know, him up and like, look, dude, you know, I don't really want to make this call. Blah, blah, blah. Of course Kid Rock took the heat. Fuck you, you know, blah, blah. So they're fucking each other back and forth. Goes away. Now there was some MTV awards thing and actually Let me back up first. We were in Vegas for a New Year's thing, and there was this rumor that Kid Rock was supposed to come with his bodyguard and, like, and come to Tommy's room and attack. So me, my man Kemo, who you know as well you know, we're sleeping in Tommy's room, hoping up. And of course, they go to a different room. They do go to a room, kick a door in. Nothing. Totally.

[Joe Rogan]

Actually went looking. For real.

[Eddie Bravo]

I don't think they went looking for. I think it was a big publicity sign, some autographs, and. And they keep it moving. So I'm saying to Tommy, I go, yo, dude. I go, him. I go, you should fight him on pay per view.

[Joe Rogan]

Imagine all the money that would make.

[Eddie Bravo]

I go, I'll fight his security guy. Like, we'll make a whole thing of it. And he goes, man, that's brilliant.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God.

[Eddie Bravo]

So I go. I go, you know, I'm telling you. I said, you should do. I said, look, either you fight him and you beat him up, or he punks out and you win either way. And he's like. He's like, yeah, yeah, I like this. So he talks to his management. Of course, it just goes by the wayside. Well, they're having some MTV Awards shit. Security's not allowed on the floor there. They had their own, like, you know, it was in this casino to have security for it. While he's sitting in there with Pam, Kid Rock, like, comes up kind of behind him and pokes him. And Tommy sees him, and he goes to stand up, and Kid Rock suckers him there.

[Jim Norton]

He hit him.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

What?

[Eddie Bravo]

And I'm home. My phone is getting blown the fuck up. Like, what happened with Tommy? What happened with Tommy? I'm like, I don't fucking know. Like, I'm not with him right now. And I get a call, I swear, like, 30 minutes later. And it's Tommy. And he's going, fuck him. He goes, I'm done with that motherfucker. I want to fight him. I'm going to fucking fight him now. I go. He goes, I want you to train me.

[Joe Rogan]

I go.

[Eddie Bravo]

He goes, I'm going to move you out. I go, no, you're moving to me. I go, we're not going to be out here with all your little fucking ass kissers. I said, if you're going to do it, you're really going to do it.

[Joe Rogan]

He working out at all at the time? No.

[Eddie Bravo]

So, you know, the only working out he does is on the drums, which he does murder.

[Joe Rogan]

So that is a little bit of arm.

[Matt Serra]

That's like a little punch.

[Joe Rogan]

Definitely. Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

And I can show you a picture of him with a choke on me. And it's legit. Like he, he did train with Horan and he, I told you guys, he trained some with Billy Blank. So

[Joe Rogan]

I've talked about this on the podcast. He was one of those like Raymond Daniels type karate point fighting characters. Yeah, he's a type in the early days. He's a Taebo guy. But we'll get to that. All right. Yeah, so we'll get to that. Props to Billy Blanks.

[Eddie Bravo]

I bring him in and, and I, he, I told him, I said, look, when we're going to Long Beach, I said, I know Rogan. I can have him come in and you can tell him your idea. And he goes, all right, all right. So I bring Joe and Eddie. They meet him, he tells Joe he wants to fight him, literally. And Tommy said his sanctuary was his management company at the time. I don't know if he still is or not. So they call Kid Rock's people supposedly and offer this fucking fight on pay per view. And Kid Rock's people wound up calling back and basically turning it down, saying whoever loses is ruined for, you know, for life, I guess, because. Looking like a. Because they both had the rock and roll tough guy, you know, image thing. So, so did he say that in print? That's literally how it, how it stopped.

[Joe Rogan]

Was that in print whoever loses this is ruined or was that. Oh, no, no, no.

[Eddie Bravo]

That was, that was supposedly the response from Kid Rock's management to Tommy's management,

[Joe Rogan]

he would be correct, you know.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. But if it's a good fight, like a Stefan Bonner and Forest, oh my God.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that would be different then they both be revolution. I kind of forget who won that fight. Stefan, Bonner, Forest. Yeah, I know, Forrest, but I kind of forget because the fight was so good.

[Eddie Bravo]

It was amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

That was one of the most toss up fights of all time. Like, who knows?

[Eddie Bravo]

Did the right thing. He contracted both.

[Joe Rogan]

We actually talked about it in the octagon right before he did it.

[Eddie Bravo]

Wow.

[Matt Serra]

Did you really? Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You should give both these a bonus. Yeah, he's like, we're gonna do that. I'm like, yeah, it was amazing.

[Jim Norton]

Do you think if it wasn't for the Ultimate Fighter it would have died out?

[Joe Rogan]

Who knows, man? But it was like lightning in a bottle because there was another good fight before that. Diego Sanchez, Kenny Florian up, man, that

[Eddie Bravo]

was a one way beating.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but that was Diego Sanchez coming up like people got to see Diego fight too many fights. They got to see the later fights. They forgot what a monster Diego was. He was in his prime. And if you want to. Animal. Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

Question is grappling. I mean Marcelo. But you know, he hung with one

[Joe Rogan]

of the best of all time, Justin adcc.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Diego was a. I don't know. Listen man, you can only get hit so many times.

[Eddie Bravo]

Agreed. And he was at halfway gone before taking.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he was always like this open minded, weird thinker. Remember he had that guy that was training him that you had a little bit of a disagreement with.

[Eddie Bravo]

What about that loser?

[Matt Serra]

Joshua Fabia?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

I don't mention his name.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah,

[Jim Norton]

that guy was demented.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he had Diego hanging upside down. He like. Yeah, videos insane. The video's insane. But Diego was like super, super open minded. Like he was willing to believe in magic. He was, you know what I'm saying? Like he believed in himself so much that Diego was like. And he was also like doing weird stuff. Like he would chew meat and, and spit it out. He would just chew it down, like get all the juices from it and then spit whatever's left out. You wouldn't swallow the meat.

[Matt Serra]

But he was fun to watch. He'd come out. Yes,

[Joe Rogan]

he was a animal. Steve Ma well trained him for the fight with BJ Pen and got him in insane shape. But unfortunately that was the fight where BJ started. That was when BJ was training with the Marinoviches.

[Eddie Bravo]

He was leaping out of pools.

[Joe Rogan]

BJ was unstoppable. There was a. There was a time where I would say, watch BJ's Prime. I'll put that dude up against anybody. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. When's the last time you were worried about the numbers in your bank account? Or maybe a more apt question is when's the last time you weren't worried? Everyone goes through financial stress and a lot are going through it right now. According to a poll, 8 in 10Americans were stressed over their finances at the beginning of the year. That kind of stress can impact you emotionally, physically, and even start bleeding into your relationships. But one thing you need to remember is you're not alone. And support exists for this kind of stress. But therapy can help you navigate your relationship with money. It can help you manage the anxiety that comes with it, while giving you healthier coping techniques to handle uncertainty. Better help can connect you with a fully licensed therapist. And you don't even need to leave the comfort of your couch with just a few questions. They'll match you with a therapist who meets your needs and preferences. You can meet them virtually on your own time. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Visit betterhelp.com for 10% off. That's better. H E L p.com DraftKings Sportsbook, the number one sportsbook for live betting is the place for all the NBA action. And right now, there's an offer to make every game matter more. For a limited time, new customers can bet just $10, and DraftKings will give you $50 instantly in bonus bets. No waiting, no extra steps, just instant bon to make every shot, rebound and assist mean more. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use promo code ROGAN to get $50 in bonus bets instantly when you bet $10. That's promo code ROGAN in partnership with DraftKings Sportsbook. The crown is yours. Visit opgr.org or call 1-877-MY-TAIN to talk, text or chat about your own or someone else's. Gambling resources are free. Must be 21 and over in Oregon to place wagers. Eligibility restrictions apply. Bonus bets expire after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see sportsbook.draftkings.com promos BJ, there's no doubt.

[Matt Serra]

I always say he's the best 55 of all time. Like in that. In that window. Right in that window when he beat Matt Hughes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. He was a human Wolverine.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, but you did a lot better with him than I did.

[Jim Norton]

I don't want to bring that up.

[Joe Rogan]

I thought you did. Championship caliber Jiu Jitsu.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what I mean? And a guy like him relies on Jiu Jitsu a lot, you know, And. But BJ was just the. I always. There's two fights. The Kenny Full. I'm sorry. Sean Shirk flight. The Sean Shirk fight was prime, bj.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And then what about. What about Carol? That's another one, too. Yeah, but Diego was like, highly ranked. Yeah. Wrecked cow Uno. He was a beast, Matt.

[Jim Norton]

Look what he did to Matt Hughes when he took the title.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he was a beast.

[Jim Norton]

Matt Hughes was just like, you're coming up to my weight class, right? Know that type of thing.

[Joe Rogan]

He was a Wolverine. Dude would fight people at two. He fought Leoto Machida, 200 pounds. That's crazy. Yeah, he was a Wolverine. He did good about that animal and did real good. Scary on the feet.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

A natural 55er who fought as low as 45. Remember, he went down to 45 for a while, bro. BJ was a monster in his prime.

[Eddie Bravo]

He was well rounded Too, before guys were super well rounded, like, he threw hands well.

[Joe Rogan]

If he just had the will to go through those Marinovic camps, every fight, he would have been unstoppable. Yeah, he just. BJ would, you know, he would just lose his focus a little bit. I watched a YouTube documentary about, like the rise in trajectory and then the later years. It was really well done, but it was all just talking about how there's this prime bj, and that's when he was training with the Marinovich's and incredible conditioning, and he could just go fight and not worry about his conditioning.

[Matt Serra]

Do you think he. It wasn't laziness, right?

[Jim Norton]

What do you think?

[Matt Serra]

It was a lot of fun friends,

[Jim Norton]

a lot of party.

[Joe Rogan]

He's the king of the island, basically. The king of Hawaii, for sure.

[Matt Serra]

The king.

[Joe Rogan]

Everywhere he would go, people like, it's pj. I mean, it was a king in Vegas, man, in. In those prime years when he was the champ, he was a huge star. So I'm sure he's a huge star in Hilo. He's probably hanging out with the boys all the time, having a good time.

[Matt Serra]

Plus his family, like, had influence there. Right. It had, like, money.

[Joe Rogan]

He didn't come from poverty. But it's just like. Like that. It just was real hard to maintain those kind of camps. Those camps are insane.

[Jim Norton]

He was also super, super talented. And so it's like he didn't have to work as hard to still beat up people. Like, in practice.

[Joe Rogan]

Definitely came easy. His flexibility and leg decks.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, my goodness. I remember when I fought him and we were doing a rules meeting. This is the time where, like, we could ask questions like they did everybody in the rules meeting. And I'm in the rules meeting, and Frank Shamrock was in his corner. And Frank's like, are we allowed for in guard? Kick him in the head. I'm like, what the. How the hell? Like, he was talking about his flexibility just wrapping around the back of my head and kicking me in the head from there. And I was like, what the hell? Is this guy insane, right? I was like, how the hell is he gonna be able to kick me in the head from there? But apparently BJ had that flexibility to be able to do that.

[Eddie Bravo]

He could.

[Joe Rogan]

He could do double Lotus without using his hands. So, like, sit back and just completely crop, but Lotus. Yeah. Like interlocked with no hands.

[Matt Serra]

That's insane.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, his flexibility is bananas. Yeah. And he worked on it. It wasn't just like a natural gift. But how smart was he to figure out if you could Use your legs. Like, you could use your arms. They're so much stronger, Right?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jim Norton]

There he is.

[Joe Rogan]

That's nuts, man. He could put his own leg behind his head with no hands. That's crazy.

[Eddie Bravo]

Flexibility, I'd say he was going to kick you while you were north, South.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, he gonna do that.

[Joe Rogan]

That is nuts. But if. Is that legal? No. There's a lot of goofy rules. Right? Like, that's. There's a. I don't think it would be cool to stomp people in the head and soccer kick them, but at least knees to the head should be okay with that. For sure. Because if you're shooting on a single and you're holding onto it and your head's right there, that's a stupid place to be in real life. Right?

[Matt Serra]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Let's just. Real life, a real fight. Why wouldn't the guy knee you in the head? You're grabbing his knee. If he's.

[Jim Norton]

You're.

[Joe Rogan]

You're all in right here. All he has to do is knee you in the face, and he can't do it because you're on your knees.

[Matt Serra]

And let's be fair. Like, a knee when somebody's on their feet is worse than that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Matt Serra]

You know what I'm saying?

[Eddie Bravo]

Like, that's not just way more behind it.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. That's not as like, if.

[Jim Norton]

If.

[Matt Serra]

If you're on the floor and I knee you in the head, that's still not as bad as if me just kneeing you right in the face.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Especially if you're the Michael Venom Page fight. If you ever want to know, like, what's the most destructive strike in mma? Yeah. The most amount of power you can

[Matt Serra]

generate has got to be a knee, a flying knee.

[Joe Rogan]

While guys coming.

[Matt Serra]

When a guy's, like, shooting in on you.

[Eddie Bravo]

The only thing I'm. I'm not a fan of is the. The kick, the jab. The kick to the knee.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

Like, you know, you saw what happens if you hit it right when Khal Field did it. My opinion there is. It's just something that if you hit it right, it's. It's all. An injury's coming, and not a good one. You can't tap. It's not like a knee bar or something. So I kind of think if you can't kick a guy in the side of the knee for that reason, why should you be able to.

[Joe Rogan]

If you can kick in the knees, you should be able to kick in the nuts. I'm gonna be real. I. I need, like, what are we doing here? What are we doing here? We're pretending. Like, wear a cup and I can kick you in the nuts.

[Eddie Bravo]

Right?

[Joe Rogan]

There's some good cops out there.

[Eddie Bravo]

Steel one.

[Joe Rogan]

It's crazy. Like, why. Why do we have weird rules like that?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, it's crazy because, like, every time somebody gets kicked in the nuts, you say it. You always say it. Why don't you get a steel cup? The fact that no one has a steel cup to me, after all this time is unbelievable.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's ultimate cheap code in. In guard, in. In grappling, too.

[Eddie Bravo]

Somebody with that thing on.

[Joe Rogan]

Remember Amir Renovardi?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah. That's a long time ago.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, a long time ago. I trained with him at Legends, and he mounted me, and he put his cup in my solar ple. Like I was ready to tap from his dick.

[Eddie Bravo]

All right, imagine. Imagine my 265 deal. You know what I mean? And I always wear a cup when I train.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, that's a lever for an arm.

[Eddie Bravo]

I'm gonna slide your elbow past that.

[Jim Norton]

You know, it's a weird look when the guys wear the whole spandex and they have that steel cup, so they got, like, dick in there.

[Eddie Bravo]

The shiny Carter cup.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a yellow Romero.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, right.

[Eddie Bravo]

Remember that Shoney car? I think Eddie talked about it for the entire fight. It was a king of the cage fight, and Shoney was fighting, and he had a giant couple, and I swear, Eddie just commentated about the size of the cup. It was hilarious, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

In the Taekwondo days, they had ones you'd put on over your pants. So you put. You'd have your ghee pants on, and then you'd put these ones on over it, and it had, like, this big strap and go right up to your taint. Like, right. Literally to your. And then go all the way up like this and strap it in. But it was way better. It was way better because it.

[Eddie Bravo]

Like a boxing cup.

[Joe Rogan]

No, it was a Taekwondo. It was just for Taekwondo. It was just literally designed to wear outside so you could kick. And that's when I realized, like, oh, you could never wear regular cups. Like, regular cups move too much. It's just sitting there, right? And sometimes your nut gets caught between the cup and your leg. When you get hit there, it's way worse.

[Matt Serra]

And I think maybe the UFC should make that mandatory 100.

[Joe Rogan]

Why would you have to wear a mouthpiece? Why don't you wear compression shorts?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Those, like, the diamond MMA ones. Ones.

[Eddie Bravo]

That's a cup I have.

[Jim Norton]

I Like, legit.

[Joe Rogan]

Legit. And if you don't want to wear steel, that's fine. You don't want to have dental floss up your. It's uncomfortable. But that's. I would think if I was advising someone, I'd say get a steel cup before they outlaw it, because they should.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. You should have to wear that, though. I mean, it would. It would eliminate all the nutshots.

[Joe Rogan]

If you're smart, you would wear a steel cup. 100. That somebody kicks you in the nuts, it'll hurt them more than it hurts you. Like, it protects you from everything. It's uncomfortable. That's all it is. Just uncomfortable.

[Matt Serra]

So, I mean.

[Joe Rogan]

So it's fighting.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Someone's fighting. Someone's getting kicked in the nuts.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Dude, I can't believe it's legal. I really. It's like one of the. How do you have steel in there? A bunch of guys do. DC wore it every fight he had. Oh, dude, it's. You imagine a guy diving on a double and you hip into him.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Slamming his face with your dick. Your dick is metal. Your dick's covered in metal. And that's legal?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. You have to have pads on your knuckles.

[Joe Rogan]

You have to have pads on your knuckles. You got an armor plate over your.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, I would definitely wear that if I was fighting. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm selling them.

[Eddie Bravo]

Why not?

[Joe Rogan]

I'm gonna start selling them on my website.

[Jim Norton]

Because it's like, there's no way that should be legal.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Like, how is that legal?

[Matt Serra]

I don't know.

[Jim Norton]

It's fucking metal.

[Joe Rogan]

You bring in metal into the equation. A foot can hit metal, a knee can hit metal.

[Matt Serra]

You can do that. And no. And the fact that no one does it, it's not.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, if you guys do it. We were talking about different guys who've done it that are currently doing it. And I know DC did it, but there's a few guys who still do it. And we were talking about it on one of the broadcasts. I don't remember which guys he was pointing out, but there's a few guys. Kenny Florian always wore steel cuffs up.

[Matt Serra]

But the fact that not everyone.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, for sure.

[Matt Serra]

For sure.

[Joe Rogan]

100%.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Damn.

[Jim Norton]

That's.

[Joe Rogan]

You're here with Delra. Starts talking Thai. No, I never takes fluent Thai. Does he really? He's got that. He's like a guinea from.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

When. When he talks. He could talk to Thai people. It freaks them out.

[Jim Norton]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah, man. He spent a lot of time in Thailand. Combat sports take center stage this Saturday with the new DraftKings predictions app now available in California, Florida, Texas and more. You can make real money predictions on Saturday's biggest fights. There's always something to predict. Pick a topic, make a prediction. Will the main event go the distance? Will there be a knockout? Which fighter will win? Lock in your prediction before the fight or jump in live as the action unfolds. When momentum shifts, you can stay with your position or adjust based on what you're seeing in real time. Download the DraftKings predictions app today with code Rogan New predictions customers trade $5 and get 50 in predictions dollars with promo code Rogan. Don't just feel it, Predict it with DraftKings Predictions. The crown is yours. DraftKings Predictions is a CFTC registered introducing broker event contract trading involves substantial risk of loss one per new customer often required non withdrawable predictions dollars expire in one year. Ends April 26, 2026. Market availability varies. Eligibility restrictions apply. See terms@dkngCo predictionspromo.

[Matt Serra]

Well, he's my man. I go to Boston to stay with him.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And his, his wife always cooks for me. What a great, true bunch of people.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a maniac. I love that dude.

[Jim Norton]

On the Ultimate Fighter 4, we didn't have assigned coaches and he would just work with us like anytime we needed him. Yeah, you know what I mean? He was great and he would let us tackle him and mount them and you know what I mean? Yeah, he was awesome as well. Yeah, he's great.

[Joe Rogan]

Mark, he's a really good coach too. Yeah. You know who was really impressive working with him was Kevin James. You know Kevin James, you know, you think of him as the King of Queens. He worked with Mark a lot and Kevin's been my friend for years. I but I really hadn't seen him hit pads. I saw him hit pass with Della Grotti. I was like, what the dude? I'm like, that's good. Like this looks good.

[Matt Serra]

He's like, Marco make you look good, man.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a really solid coach.

[Jim Norton]

Gave Longo a black eye. He spawned one time with Longo. Kevin J. Did was walking around like Petey from the little rest.

[Eddie Bravo]

That's awesome.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a deceptively fast dude.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, he's athletic, you know, big dude.

[Joe Rogan]

When I first met him, he was jacked. Like, he was like. He wasn't as big as he got at one point in time, but he's always kind of seesawed back and forth. But he was a karate guy. He was always doing karate.

[Eddie Bravo]

When he was younger, he's super athletic.

[Matt Serra]

There he is.

[Joe Rogan]

It doesn't look as good there. I think that's when he was just getting into it all, honestly. Right. But he had. He was. He had Delrate staying with him a while, and Delrate was training him.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I saw him in Kill Cliff, just like, blending in with the guys. Like, he wasn't, like, standing out. He was just.

[Jim Norton]

It.

[Matt Serra]

Kill Cliff.

[Joe Rogan]

Just training.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Blending in with the guys.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. He's a great guy. I've known him forever.

[Jim Norton]

I just seen him in either Becky or the Wrath of Becky.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah. He plays a psycho.

[Jim Norton]

And the girl in it is great. Yeah, the girl's like a little psycho girl.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a fun movie.

[Jim Norton]

It's fun.

[Matt Serra]

Really fun.

[Jim Norton]

I think it's the first one called Becky Becky, and he plays a villain. He plays.

[Joe Rogan]

The other guy that did it was Joel McHale. Joel McHale played the second psycho in one of the other movies. I forget was either first or the second one.

[Jim Norton]

I think he's in the second one. The Wrath of Becky.

[Joe Rogan]

Kevin was awesome.

[Jim Norton]

These are good movies.

[Joe Rogan]

Kevin played a good psycho.

[Jim Norton]

Hey, did you ever see the. The Night of the Seven Kingdoms?

[Joe Rogan]

No, I haven't seen that yet. I'm gonna watch it, though, because I'm in the middle of finishing the first season of Game. The first year. The first. First all Game of Thrones.

[Jim Norton]

What, you're doing it over?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, you've seen it already.

[Joe Rogan]

But I haven't seen it since, like, 2015 or whatever. It's fucking amazing.

[Jim Norton]

I forgot so much.

[Eddie Bravo]

It's fucking awesome.

[Jim Norton]

This. You don't even have to watch any of the Game of Thrones because this takes place 90 years before the first event of the Game of Thrones. Sir Duncan the Tall.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yep.

[Jim Norton]

And it is so good.

[Joe Rogan]

It is good.

[Jim Norton]

So well done. And it's based on the novel. I'm a fucking nerd. I read the graphic novel of it by George R.R. martin. Yeah. Yeah. And I read it back in the day and it was. It's so great. And you know how they have, like, trial by combat.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

In this one. Not to give everything away, but he. This guy gets into it and he has to do a trial by seven. So it's seven on seven nights.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep.

[Jim Norton]

And it's like one of those things. He's a hedge knight. It's. It's really. Yeah, it's good. What I like about the story, did you ever watch the House of the Dragon?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Jim Norton]

It's a lot of cool.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

But it's precludes for They're a bunch of pricks.

[Eddie Bravo]

Right, Right.

[Jim Norton]

Who's. One's worse than the other.

[Eddie Bravo]

Right, Right.

[Jim Norton]

I mean, back in Game of Thrones, Jon Snow, Ned Stark, guys do. Even. Some guys that are, you know, even just great characters and some guys that are on like, the Hound, who's doing, like the anti hero. But with this one, it's just a good, solid dude trying to do the right thing. Yep. And. And he. And by trying to do the right thing, he gets into, you know, into some trouble. And it's just. It gives you, like. It's like. Like being righteous and have, like, real heroics, like. You know what I mean? Like some shit's that that's missing nowadays because it's all about getting a message in there or making some diverse, which I love, though.

[Joe Rogan]

Game of Thrones was like a feminist series, if you. If you really think about it.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean, really was.

[Joe Rogan]

But. But without any fanfare, like, no bringing it up. No one paid attention to it. But the baddest people on that show were the women. Cersei Lannister was the baddest in the world. Arya Stark killed everybody. Kept it together. Do all that. Brianna of Tar. Everybody up. Including the Hound. You got family dragons. Yes. And you got Daenerys. Yeah. Queen of Dragons. Who's the baddest on earth. You literally can't burn her and she's got three dragons. It's a feminist. It is. It's a completely feminist series, but without.

[Eddie Bravo]

But never even crosses your mind because

[Joe Rogan]

it's so good you don't care. It's not. It's not, like, dumb. You haven't watched.

[Eddie Bravo]

You haven't watched that thing.

[Matt Serra]

No.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And House of Dragons is the same way.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Like there's some of these, like, Star wars movies where it's all women generals and you're like,

[Eddie Bravo]

Shut the up.

[Joe Rogan]

And all the men are scared of them and they all get out of the room like, this is fiction.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

This is nonsense. Even though that's obviously fiction, too. It's way better a lady that has dragons the hottest around. She's got dragons.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

She. A bunch of killers.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

She brings them into her bed.

[Matt Serra]

Well.

[Joe Rogan]

Because they do a good job of making barbarians.

[Matt Serra]

Well, they do such a good job of making them flawed that you don't even realize that they are the baddest in the world. But they're so. But they're flawed in way where it's like. It makes them human.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, look at Cersei Lannister. All of her kids gone. That survives. She's got a giant demon that watches over her. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Like she's in love with her brother.

[Matt Serra]

She.

[Joe Rogan]

Her brother.

[Eddie Bravo]

Brother.

[Joe Rogan]

She had the. Well, I don't. Spoiler alert. When she had that. The. The priest that tortured her while she was in the cell. When they finally got her.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And she's like, I'm ready to meet my maker. She's like, oh, you're not gonna die today. And then. And then the. Oh, my God.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

That was such a horrifying scene.

[Jim Norton]

It was such a great show, though.

[Matt Serra]

Is there a better, like, world?

[Eddie Bravo]

The other thing.

[Matt Serra]

Universe.

[Eddie Bravo]

No one was safe on that show. You never knew the. The biggest character could just get murked. Like the next episode.

[Joe Rogan]

Pedro Pascal, that played that. What was his character?

[Jim Norton]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

When he got killed by Prince.

[Eddie Bravo]

Adorable.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

First of all, I never thought they would kill him. Like, that guy's an important character. He's bringing all this new life to the show.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And all of a sudden, you see the mountain knuckles into that guy's eyeballs.

[Eddie Bravo]

That was so crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Holy. That was like one of the most disturbing murder scenes you've ever seen in your life.

[Jim Norton]

And he was doing great. He was taking a on him. He got too cocky.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, man.

[Eddie Bravo]

Worked him over.

[Joe Rogan]

Thought he had him.

[Jim Norton]

You raped her. You murdered her. You killed our children. Some like that. He kept repeating it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And strutting around while the mountains on his back. Yeah. What a crazy show. Such a good show. One of the greatest shows of all time.

[Jim Norton]

I'm telling you. You got to text me after you watch the Night of the Seven Kingdoms. Cuz it's all out. You can binge it.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm going to do it as soon as we're done with this. We're on like season seven.

[Eddie Bravo]

Six. Six episodes each.

[Jim Norton]

Each episode's like 30 minutes.

[Eddie Bravo]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

It's.

[Eddie Bravo]

You run through it.

[Joe Rogan]

The House of Dragons never really dragged me in. It didn't. It was interesting.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, it's like, I liked it, but it wasn't the same thing. Definitely not.

[Eddie Bravo]

This. I think this, the new one is, in my opinion, better. I thought.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, the circuit, whatever. There's parts in it that just get you going. Like, yeah, hell yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

I'm looking forward to. I hope they lengthen it a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Six half hour episodes.

[Matt Serra]

But I love the relationship between the

[Jim Norton]

kid and the dunk.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

That was the whole show.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. One thing I did love about House of Dragons, when they were trying to figure out who could ride a dragon.

[Matt Serra]

Dragon.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, that was cool. They brought all those people down there. You have to have some Targaryen blood and a lot of Targaryens, a lot of regular people. So they were searching for Targaryen blood. Just taking people out of the pub and just push them in front of the track. That was crazy.

[Jim Norton]

She first asked the one of the king's God, like, you know, we tracked you back to whatever, and it's like, oh, it's a great honor. No, I want to do it.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, buddy.

[Jim Norton]

Careful what you wish for.

[Joe Rogan]

That scene was nuts, dude. The red.

[Eddie Bravo]

The red wet wedding. That was the crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

You couldn't believe it was happening while it was happening like this because we're taking everybody happening. This can't be happening.

[Jim Norton]

Did you hate the ending?

[Joe Rogan]

As much as I did not enjoy it, it felt to me like they had to tie it up and like, you know, I would have been almost better if it was like no country for Old Men style ending.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, I think all. All shows should be like that because life continues afterwards, right? You don't have to tie it in.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm not 12.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Once it got past the books, it took a hit.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, well, that guy's a genius. I mean, the. The world that guy created in the complexity of all the characters like Tyrion Lannister and Tywin Lannister and. Oh, my God.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, man. I mean. I mean, that guy was so good, man.

[Jim Norton]

They're already doing the. The Swan Sword, which is the second book of Game of Thrones, of the Dunkin Egg Tales.

[Eddie Bravo]

Oh, nice.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, also, that's a. That's his writing too.

[Jim Norton]

That's his. Yeah, he did three books. It was a Night of the Seven Kingdoms, which they just did. They're gonna do a Swan Sword and then it's the mystery night. I don't know anything, but I know a lot of Game of Thrones shit.

[Eddie Bravo]

Don't ask me about Game of Thrones and Star Wars. You're my go to.

[Joe Rogan]

The world's so fucked up. You're way better off with that stuff in your head.

[Matt Serra]

That's why I do it, man. It's such an escape, man, just to

[Joe Rogan]

sit home and watch tv.

[Matt Serra]

That's all I do, sit and watch tv.

[Jim Norton]

Speaking of Star Wars, I got a text out of nowhere from. From George St. Pierre. He loves it as much as me. Oh, yeah, it was just about the new Darth Maul animated series, my bro. I swear to God.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yo.

[Jim Norton]

And then he gave me back a report. He Told me it's so far, so good.

[Eddie Bravo]

I told you.

[Jim Norton]

My brother.

[Eddie Bravo]

My brother's like, I know Matt's in the Star Wars. Tell him, watch the new Darth Maul. Jamie said it's fun.

[Jim Norton]

I love George.

[Joe Rogan]

He's. He's the best. I have the hardest time convincing people who he is. It's hilarious. Serious.

[Jim Norton]

What do you mean?

[Joe Rogan]

When people. When he comes to the Mothership and people that don't know anything about mma, they're like, what does your friend do? I go, that is one of the greatest fighters that ever walked the face of the earth.

[Eddie Bravo]

100.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, no, for real. I go, yeah, 100 in everybody's list of one of the greatest of all time. And he's like, hello, nice to meet you. Yeah, right. It just seems so sweet and friendly.

[Matt Serra]

I mean, that's the problem with MMA is that, like, you have to convince people about how bad somebody was. And it wasn't that long ago. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that George St. Pierre was the fucking greatest of all time.

[Joe Rogan]

No, wasn't that long.

[Matt Serra]

And now. But the fans are so new that you.

[Joe Rogan]

They don't get it.

[Matt Serra]

They don't go back and watch it.

[Joe Rogan]

They had a while. It's like, go back and watch the John Fitch fight.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Prime.

[Jim Norton]

GSP Prime.

[Joe Rogan]

He was terrifying. Incredible gas tank, great flow between grappling and striking. Very creative.

[Eddie Bravo]

He put that shit together the best. That's why I had such success taking everybody down like his. He would set it up. His level change, and he always. He ran through every takedown. It was never stopped. He was going to run you across the cage.

[Joe Rogan]

George was phenomenal. And then. And I think Faraza hobby was a big part of that. Too far as a hobby's a bad.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, he's smart.

[Joe Rogan]

You ever watch his YouTube breakdowns?

[Matt Serra]

Sometimes, yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, yeah, He's.

[Matt Serra]

He's incredible.

[Joe Rogan]

Very incredible. Astute. He's so knowledgeable of the game, of every aspect of it.

[Jim Norton]

You know, his brother is doing well. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

His brother's fighting at the White House.

[Jim Norton]

He's fighting Sean o', Malley, and I think people are sleeping on him.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, listen, he keeps winning. Yeah, he keeps winning. The. The one fight that he had that was coming of a little controversial was Aldo. Remember Aldo? Almost.

[Matt Serra]

I don't know. Yeah, for sure. I'm not sure he won that fight

[Joe Rogan]

because I think they're not being generous enough with the ten eights and the ten sevens. They don't do it enough. Not enough. There's. When a Guy just tunes you up for like a minute and a half of the round and you almost go unconscious, you know, like that, that means a lot.

[Matt Serra]

I hate the fact that they don't use it enough. All because like, Dana was like, oh, I don't like it. And now the judges are just like, no, we can't do it because listen,

[Joe Rogan]

the scoring system sucks because we stole it from boxing. It's not, it doesn't have enough points. For sure, it should be like, you should get like a certain amount of points for different things, but it would be really hard to calculate because it would be have to be subjective. Like if Pereira hits you, it's way harder than if someone's like, you know Paul Craig, right? Yeah. No disrespect, but you know what I'm saying? The consequences are very different. So if he hits you with a left wing hook, it's different than a pere hits you the left hook. So that's subjective. But in terms of like what happens in the fight, you should be counting in submission attempts, you should be counting in takedown attempts, like who was more aggressive, who is more defensive, who, who's, who implemented their STR. You should have like 100 points to work with.

[Matt Serra]

Absolutely. As they got 10 points, why are we only using two of them? It's nine into 10. Why?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't get it. It don't make any sense. Because there's 10, nine rounds that are like, ah, could be anybody. And there's 10, nine rounds where that he dominated. That's.

[Matt Serra]

Well, see, like UFC BJJ uses that and it works better for that because they're very Liberal with the 10 8s and 107s. They use it a lot. They're like, if it's, if it's close, it's a 10, 9. If it's one sided, it's automatically a 10, 8. So they use more sense.

[Joe Rogan]

That does make more sense. But even in bjj, I would say you'd need more points. You need like, it's like the difference between a 70, 30 round where a guy's dominating you 70% of the time, time and a 51, 49 round is huge.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, it's huge.

[Joe Rogan]

And it doesn't reflect it in the scorecards at all. Yeah, so like you could win a 10, nine round. The first round where it's like you're barely ahead, like maybe I'll give it to you. And then the second round, that dude you up and he gets a 10, nine round because you didn't go down. Yeah, but he's head kicking you and you're blocking it. You're getting teaped, your legs are getting kicked all the time. It's still a 10, nine round.

[Jim Norton]

That's some.

[Joe Rogan]

That's nuts.

[Jim Norton]

Nuts. No.

[Joe Rogan]

Just because you didn't go unconscious, just because you didn't get knocked down.

[Jim Norton]

I think it's my ADD's kicking in. But we're talking about the close calls, close scoring. I thought Aljo, I thought he should have got that nod against.

[Eddie Bravo]

I thought so too. I didn't think there was a.

[Jim Norton]

The guy got on the question reversal at the end. Like a minute 30 left and Aljo was winning that whole first round.

[Joe Rogan]

Aljo is a nightmare for a grappling expert.

[Jim Norton]

He could be undefeated at 145.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a nightmare because if your whole thing is grappling with people and you got to grapple with Aljo, you, you got problems. That dude gets your back. He's got, he's, I mean, him and y.

[Eddie Bravo]

10, 10, 8 round, like he was just on his back.

[Joe Rogan]

Dominated him in that second round.

[Eddie Bravo]

And they don't. And no. How is that not a 10, 8 round?

[Jim Norton]

He's fighting Yousef Salal soon.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah, Yousef's allowed and that's on the 25th of April. But I mean, but I think, you know, if it hits the ground, I think there's levels to this.

[Joe Rogan]

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[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Did Aljo over yawn in the second fight? Was that like the best anybody's ever done with Yan?

[Matt Serra]

Oh yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

Straight.

[Jim Norton]

His control is just so good when it hits the floor. That's the difference between him and Marad. Keep getting you down and up. Down, up.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

Aljo hits the floor.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

You're not he, he just needs back lack exposure. He's one of those some guys, they can't jump up on the back. It's not good for them. They're gonna get tired dude all day long he'll just go up there, lock that on and if he doesn't get you, that's his round.

[Joe Rogan]

Like bro, the Sandhagen fight was masterpiece.

[Jim Norton]

His grappling is so so good. Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

He doesn't get proper credit.

[Joe Rogan]

No. This is back take some of the best in the in the sport period.

[Jim Norton]

Man. They're not a big fan of his. Well they don't push

[Joe Rogan]

guy.

[Matt Serra]

I know he does everything right.

[Eddie Bravo]

I think it's the one with the neck that was, I think that was turned everybody against him.

[Joe Rogan]

Those people are wrong up and look what happened in the sacrificed.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean he should have validated the entire thing by one whooping his ass in the second fight.

[Joe Rogan]

But they already decided they hate stuck on it. He had to get his disc replaced. It was real. That was a real injury.

[Jim Norton]

He should be, he could be. He could be a two time chain, a double division champ. I mean he's in my mind he's undefeated at 145. Look what he did to Calvin Cater which was Calvin Kate is a beast. But it was very impressive.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

If that's the first fight seeing him you'd be like oh that guy doesn't belong here. Which he obviously does. He's a beast. But alja masterful. He know what it is. He's good at not getting hit. So it's like he's not giving you that back and forth because and Longo says you've seen 20% of what he could do stand up and stand it up. Like I'd ask him something. What is. He's like, he could put his foot

[Joe Rogan]

wherever he wants it.

[Jim Norton]

Like about a kick or something. He's, he's just really, really talented, man. I hope he gets his shot. If he takes out, you know, Yousef, I hope he, they give him a shot again because I think he could be a two time champ.

[Matt Serra]

He.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, listen, he's still a bad, like he's, he's a nightmare for everybody, especially if he gets a hold of you. Yeah. But I mean people look at the one fight fight losses. They look at the Sean Ali fight like Sean caught him perfect. That's just how.

[Matt Serra]

And you know, he, his head wasn't really in that cuz he didn't even want to be there.

[Eddie Bravo]

Nope.

[Joe Rogan]

Why didn't he want to be there?

[Matt Serra]

They made him fight that fight. He didn't want to fight.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

They had like a whole documentary on it where it was like they, they, they kind of twisted his arm. They like you got to do this and they.

[Joe Rogan]

Were he injured?

[Matt Serra]

I think he was injured.

[Eddie Bravo]

It was a quick turnaround. Too quick a turnaround. He's the champ. He didn't feel he should be forced into to, you know, but he thought

[Matt Serra]

the number, he thought they, he thought the pay per view numbers was going to make up for it. He thought he was going to get all this money from it because he was like, all right, I'll do it. Sean o' Malley's gonna bring in the numbers. Then he said when it was over, he saw the numbers. He was like, if I knew the numbers was going to be like this, I don't think I'd have did it.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So it didn't do well.

[Matt Serra]

It didn't do as well as he thought he was going to do based on Sha Mali's presence.

[Joe Rogan]

Listen, man, it takes a lot to get people to pay for something to do day. There's too much of ways to seal it. This paramount thing is genius in that regard is that all you have to do is have that app which a lot of people have already anyway. Yeah, that's genius. But to make people pay every time to, to watch fights, like there's so much to watch today.

[Matt Serra]

Well that, well, that was the one thing that my people at ESPN told me. They was like, it's a big difference between being popular and then having people pay to watch you fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Like you can be popular, but ain't nobody paying. Paying you. Paying you to fight you so It's a big difference.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a giant difference. Yeah. Yeah, it's a giant difference.

[Jim Norton]

I like that it's on power now. As a fan, though.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah. Save you a ton of money. I paid. I used to pay for every one of them.

[Joe Rogan]

This Netflix thing is nice, too. It's good to see that there's, like, someone who's willing to throw a lot of money at MMA in another large arena, you know, like Netflix.

[Jim Norton]

What are you. What are you doing, guys? Jeta versus Rhonda. I. I think round one submission. Rhonda.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Unless she wants to try to just stand up with her, which I doubt. I hope not.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know what Gene has been doing. You know, I don't know how long she went without MMA training at all.

[Jim Norton]

You know, she was recently a little heavy.

[Joe Rogan]

She looks great now.

[Matt Serra]

Does she look great?

[Eddie Bravo]

Look, she got in great shape.

[Joe Rogan]

She got in great shape, but she's

[Matt Serra]

still, like, 43 years old.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. No, but the question is, like, what was she doing in those? Was she still training some? That would be my real question. Because if you just put it all down and you walk away for 17 years, I gotta go.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean, but with the. With the weight loss, with the weight gain that she had, there was no way she was training anything.

[Jim Norton]

That's what I'm saying.

[Eddie Bravo]

Like, she's back in shape, and she obviously is busting her ass to do that. But how long, like you're saying, was she down and she has to divide.

[Jim Norton]

Develop a. A grappling defense to one of the best female grapplers ever. No, Rhonda's legit.

[Eddie Bravo]

Her only hope is to keep it on the.

[Jim Norton]

God on her. And I sweep.

[Matt Serra]

She would pull garden sweeper or arm locker.

[Eddie Bravo]

Her arm locks were amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

They're preposterous.

[Jim Norton]

You know, I think there's too many

[Eddie Bravo]

just dude or chick or arm bars.

[Joe Rogan]

Remember that Cat Zingano fight? Cat?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Charged at her and Cat threw her.

[Eddie Bravo]

That was the craziest.

[Joe Rogan]

Got her an arm bar. Like, instantaneous.

[Matt Serra]

What a stupid strategy that was.

[Joe Rogan]

Was. Yeah, she blanked out on that one.

[Eddie Bravo]

So crazy. No, but that was such a sick transition, too.

[Matt Serra]

No, but I saw a video of Gina hitting pads with John Wood. It was kind of recent. It did not look good.

[Joe Rogan]

How recent was it?

[Matt Serra]

I don't know. I don't know, but it didn't look good.

[Joe Rogan]

I was just like, it's hard to tell.

[Matt Serra]

I hope this is older.

[Eddie Bravo]

She's a big girl. Maybe she can stop her from taking her down or something.

[Joe Rogan]

But also, it's also, what were they doing? Were they just working on slow motion? Were they just trying to get a movement or were they getting in a hard mitt workout?

[Matt Serra]

You know, I mean, either way, like, just like, mechanically, it didn't look great mechanically. So, I mean, but it could have been. It's like one of them things where, like, this could be, like, her, her comeback session and she's just trying to get warmed up, but who knows? I mean, you know, who knows?

[Jim Norton]

Maybe she's. Who knows?

[Joe Rogan]

You just never know.

[Matt Serra]

So, yeah, I hope it's better than

[Jim Norton]

that Round one submission.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean, probably. Probably, right?

[Jim Norton]

I mean, come on.

[Joe Rogan]

I bet, you know, if you had poly Market, you can make some money on that, right? There's gonna be a lot of bets on that. It's, it's. It's exciting, though, that. That Netflix is doing it. That's what I like. I like that there's another place people can go.

[Matt Serra]

But how sustainable is this, though? That's my biggest question.

[Eddie Bravo]

Whoever's putting the money up for this is going to lose their ass. I think you're gonna make that money back.

[Jim Norton]

Right?

[Joe Rogan]

But here's the thing. It's Netflix. Yeah, right? So Netflix has an insane amount of money and they keep raking it in. Like, every month, people are paying whatever they're paying. It's as high as, like, what, 19 bucks for A.D. free. What is it? How much is a Netflix account now? I think it just went up, right? Yeah. All that money just coming in every month. They just got to give people exciting things to want to watch. And they'll keep making more money, right, because more people use Netflix. Like, it would seem like they're going to lose their ass, but they're not because they have a completely different business model. Obviously, I'm not a business businessman. 8.99 to 26.99 per month. I'm a terror. I'm, in fact, I'm a terrible businessman. But I would imagine you'll just make money by giving people awesome. So they keep tuning into Netflix, so in that sense, they're not going to lose any money because there's a lot of MMA fans that probably subscribe to Netflix just so they can watch that fight. Right, so who's on the card now? It's like Felipe Lynn's versus Ngannou, right?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Mike Perry versus Nate Diaz.

[Eddie Bravo]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, and Robilis to Spain.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And Junior Los Santos.

[Joe Rogan]

That one. Yeah, that one is like.

[Jim Norton]

Who's it?

[Eddie Bravo]

Robelas Despana, that karate combat dude.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a taekwondo black belt from Cuba.

[Jim Norton]

Wait, Vers Junior?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

How old's Junior?

[Eddie Bravo]

He's 50 now.

[Jim Norton]

Is he 50?

[Matt Serra]

No, he's close, but he's in good shape. I actually did a. We spoke at a high school a couple of months ago.

[Eddie Bravo]

I'm glad to hear that. I mean, at least these guys get an outlet to make some extra money.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, man. Who does?

[Matt Serra]

Adriana Morise is a. You know, that's a m. Guy's probably going to school them, but, I mean, it's. They got some. They're giving guys some opportunities. So you got to like this.

[Joe Rogan]

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It'll be a big show. A lot of people tune in. Diaz and Perry's going to be bananas. That'll be really fun to watch.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, that's. I mean, that'll be worth the price of. Imagine if that was 10 years ago, that fight would.

[Jim Norton]

It's like if the GL L LA went to. It came. Came true.

[Matt Serra]

GFL Remember that grandpa league, everybody.

[Eddie Bravo]

They just stole all their talent, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

Diaz versus Perry. Guaranteed dog fight. He just said guaranteed dog fight. That will not be. Who do you think wins that?

[Jim Norton]

I think the jiu jitsu is going to be too much.

[Matt Serra]

I kind of think that too. I kind of think Nate might just drag him deeper.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. We're going to see, you know, we're going to see.

[Eddie Bravo]

Oh, it's five rounds.

[Matt Serra]

Five rounds.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy. Crazy. Five rounds is crazy. I wonder why they agreed on that.

[Eddie Bravo]

Interesting.

[Joe Rogan]

Why do you think they agreed?

[Eddie Bravo]

I didn't realize.

[Joe Rogan]

Is the Gina fight five rounds or is it three rounds? Three. When they first announced five by five for everything, but they've. So it says five by five? Yeah. Just for those two, though. This one does not. And it also says these are the main event.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean, I can't imagine round for five rounds actually does there.

[Joe Rogan]

It does. It says it real. It's hard to see it.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

5x5 professional. Yeah. Okay, bro. Lorenz Larkin back in the day, I remember he fought Neil Magne was hitting him with oblique kicks to the chest and I was like, I do not think I've ever seen anybody throw it that way. You ever see that fight?

[Matt Serra]

No, I don't remember that fight.

[Joe Rogan]

He tuned Neil Magne up. Lorenz Larkin was a bad.

[Matt Serra]

I do remember that. Like, he had. He had a good little run.

[Joe Rogan]

He was so. His striking was elite.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And he would.

[Jim Norton]

He.

[Joe Rogan]

When he fought Neil Magny, he. You know, Neil Magn is a tough dude, man. Durable guy, durable, incredible discipline and endurance. Like, that dude's never out of shape. And he was just getting too. Look at this. I mean, he's throwing an oblique kick to the ribs. That one there, he just hit his arm and knocked him down with it. But earlier before that, he caught him on the rib cage with spot. Look at that, bro. That's crazy.

[Jim Norton]

He gave him a spot. A kid. Damn.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the second. Look at it. But right here, you're seeing him. He's blasting him with this kick that nobody throws like that. That's a crazy position to put your hips in, right?

[Eddie Bravo]

That is crazy, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

He's. He was sharp.

[Jim Norton]

How did this one end?

[Joe Rogan]

He stopped him.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, did he? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Lorenz was all over him, man. It was a. Like, one of the prime performances that I've seen of him fight.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, he had a good little run.

[Joe Rogan]

He had a. A great run. But in. During that run, and this was like, he came from Bellator, right?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And when he came over from Bellator, it's like he was still, like, red hot. Like, red hot.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Two guys that were in Bellator, which is Pitbull and Aaron Pico, they're getting

[Joe Rogan]

ready to fight in this weekend.

[Eddie Bravo]

Amen.

[Joe Rogan]

How much time do you think a guy like Pico is supposed to take off after Laron?

[Jim Norton]

We. We were just talking about this. That cuz. I love his offense, man. He's a little Raging bull animal. And strong, powerful.

[Joe Rogan]

He just got caught. And he got caught perfect. I mean, he was just perfect. That spinning.

[Jim Norton]

I think he got stopped more. Did he get stopped more than once with a bad knockout like that? Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

First fight ever.

[Jim Norton]

You don't want to go through your

[Joe Rogan]

career with the kid from Kill Cliff.

[Matt Serra]

Adam Burke.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Adam Burks. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He got him with a fly with a flying knee.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Yeah. Damn, dude. You don't want too many of those.

[Joe Rogan]

That's right.

[Matt Serra]

But though. But those put him out, man. Like, you just see him just go, boop. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

That Macy Barber one the other day,

[Joe Rogan]

that was just one of the greatest finishes in women's MMA history.

[Matt Serra]

No doubt. I wanted to reach out to Macy

[Jim Norton]

because I felt so bad. I wanted to reach out to the doctor and say, what the Are you thinking?

[Eddie Bravo]

So crazy.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. He's like, I'm like, get some smell. I'm like, somebody. The cameraman, please get off this. Or somebody talk to the doctor, because I don't know what the fuck. He was just over, like, man, this is fucked up.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think he knew exactly what was going on. He probably has no experience in combat sports. Right. He didn't realize that she got knocked out. And while she was out cold, she got strangled.

[Eddie Bravo]

She transitioned so fast.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, she's out there, she's out cold already, and then she gets strangled. Like, that's never happened before. Before.

[Eddie Bravo]

What's crazy is she was kind of still reacting, and then when they put her on her back, she just. It was.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I don't know. She went limp as she was trying to sit up. She went limp, you see right there? Like she was trying to get up. And then as the guy has his arm around her, she goes limp.

[Jim Norton]

Dude.

[Matt Serra]

See, there's, like, there's sea level Kane, and then there's southpaw Alexa, when she fights southpaw, man, she is dangerous.

[Jim Norton]

Then this confused doctor.

[Eddie Bravo]

Look at him.

[Matt Serra]

Hey.

[Jim Norton]

Never seen this before. Hey, Crazy.

[Eddie Bravo]

Look at him, right?

[Joe Rogan]

He's like, crazy. Just. Well, she's kind of coming to, blinking, but that was just.

[Jim Norton]

Holy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Why?

[Joe Rogan]

And the speed that she took her

[Jim Norton]

back, left hand, back choke.

[Joe Rogan]

Amazing. One shot while she was out, still cracked her again. Got her back and choked her all like a lightning bolt. That was super.

[Matt Serra]

But that's the same combination she hit Valentina with when she finished her.

[Jim Norton]

I feel like it's five minutes with us sitting there.

[Matt Serra]

Left hand, boom. Took her back. Took her a while. It took her longer. But look at this.

[Joe Rogan]

So she's in trouble. Bam. Right there. Out cold and then strangled. I don't think that combination of out cold and then strangled has ever happened before. No. Cuz, I mean, she seemed. Watch this punch here. That's a cold, right? And then, boom.

[Eddie Bravo]

Sick.

[Jim Norton]

Nah, that's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Crazy.

[Eddie Bravo]

She's tough.

[Joe Rogan]

Man, oh, man. Fall backwards in front of you after the knockout, you know? Well, so here's the thing. She gets up, and when she gets up, I think she faints. Like, I think she tries to get up, and then he. Mike, puts his arm around her and she's out. I think she faint. Fainted.

[Jim Norton]

That's just scary.

[Joe Rogan]

That's scary. And she also had. Had some problems before with seizures.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. She had to pull out of that fight with Aaron Blanchfield.

[Joe Rogan]

Seizures in the locker room.

[Eddie Bravo]

So they let. They still allow her to fight even though she's had seizures. That's pretty crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it depends on what's causing the seizures, right? If they know it's a medication that she was on, they get her off the medication. Like, there's. I don't know what causes seizures.

[Jim Norton]

Well, that's just not going to help the Seizures.

[Joe Rogan]

But it certainly wouldn't make me enthusiastic about fighting. It would have to. With your motivation, if you're already having seizures.

[Matt Serra]

I wouldn't want to do it now after. Now after that.

[Jim Norton]

I wouldn't want to do it anytime you fight. That's a possibility.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep.

[Jim Norton]

And he. I mean, look at a guy who never once looked at. Took anything remotely like that, like Kamaru Usman. And even in a fight where he's just doing so great. And then that's the closest thing I seen to that, which is when he got stopped with that head kick.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And you know, that's a possibility. Anytime you make that walk. That's why you got that little feeling in you, you know, before you walk out there.

[Joe Rogan]

The Camaro one was nuts, too, because John Anick was just saying. Because D.C. was like, a lot of people would quit in this situation. And John Anick said something along the lines of. But that is not the cloth from which.

[Matt Serra]

I know. And then, I mean, that was like the most perfect timing ever. Ever.

[Joe Rogan]

Like a movie. Like, it was. If you saw that in a movie. Like, shut up.

[Jim Norton]

Just.

[Matt Serra]

I just came in and was like, yeah, I think he's broke. And then D.C. was saying it, and then John.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Intervened with. He's not cut from that cloth.

[Joe Rogan]

And boom, boom, head kick. It was nuts. What is that new Nuts.

[Jim Norton]

Russell Crowe's doing a new MMA movie. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Is that.

[Jim Norton]

Is that going to be. Is that supposed to be the ufc?

[Matt Serra]

No, I think one fc. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

One Interesting. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. I wonder that's going to be.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, but I mean, like, the. Who's the fighter is like my age. I'm like, like, yo, what's going on here?

[Jim Norton]

Maybe it's coming back.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, Randy Couture won the title in his 40s, you know?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, man.

[Joe Rogan]

One has some wild striking fights, man. Some of the absolute best standup fights in the world are happening on one. I watch it all the time.

[Jim Norton]

I never know when that shit's on.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

What is that on?

[Matt Serra]

Where do you watch?

[Joe Rogan]

There's this cat out of Dagestan. Do you guys know I'm talking about Asadullah Iman Ghazaliev, bro. This dude is. I think he's 135 pounds. I think that's what he fights at. And he's like six foot one and just a laser beam striker. I've just people up, like, literally might be the best striker in the world.

[Matt Serra]

Is it just kickboxing?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And he's getting in there with Muay Thai. He's Getting in there with World Muay Thai champions and KO in them. Like three time World Lumini Muay Thai champions. Damn. Lumpini Stadium. Guys, this guy is a straight killer dude. And he's from Dagestan and he can run, wrestle.

[Matt Serra]

Damn.

[Jim Norton]

You gotta.

[Joe Rogan]

Let's see if he can find like a highlight reel of his chaos because this is just like. Get on YouTube.

[Jim Norton]

The body shot was nasty. This.

[Joe Rogan]

I watch this cat every time he fights. I just can't. He's so accurate and he's so slick.

[Jim Norton]

How old is he? He's 22.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, damn.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, man. I'm telling you, this 22 year old cat from Dagestan might be the best striker on earth right now. This dude is so impressive. And I'm telling you, he's doing this to dudes who are world champions. O. Oh, he's taking out world champion kickboxers, World champion Muay Thai fighters. They're putting him in there with these assassins and he's making them all go night night.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, damn.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, bro, you got to see it in real speed, like. Like, you see his real movements. It's so impressive.

[Jim Norton]

Is he with Habib and Amino?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know where he's training out of, but he's from Dagestan, bro.

[Eddie Bravo]

He looks like Zabit.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. Like a. Like a little bit more robust Zabit. But it's like, it's different. Like, Zabit had more of a. You know, he had an incredible style, but it was almost like more Taekwondo.

[Jim Norton]

Ish.

[Joe Rogan]

This guy's pure Muay Thai, but he just people up, man.

[Jim Norton]

Accurate too.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, he's spin, spinning heel kicks, everything. Knees, the body. But it's. It's the combinations, the way he's throwing them. He just finds these openings on people with this precision that you're like, man,

[Eddie Bravo]

it keeps the pressure on. He keeps the pressure on too.

[Joe Rogan]

He's just flatlined, folks. Folks, one after another, flatlining people.

[Matt Serra]

Man.

[Joe Rogan]

Bro. He's very impressive. And again, very impressive against world championship caliber Muay Thai fighters. These are not scrubs that he's fighting.

[Jim Norton]

Damn.

[Joe Rogan]

And one's putting these fights on all the time. And I was trying to tell Dana this. I was like, if you guys had like UFC striking, do you know how exciting that would be if just Muay Thai with MMA gloves on?

[Jim Norton]

Well, they should do that. They do the BJJ now.

[Joe Rogan]

They're missing out on a giant opportunity because how many people boo when a fight goes to the ground? These guys never go to the ground.

[Matt Serra]

Right? It's just all and Kickboxing is so much more brutal than boxing.

[Joe Rogan]

Way more brutal. Yeah, it just didn't get a fair shake in America. I know. It's not that it's not exciting. It's the most exciting aspects of the ufc other than a great submission like Alexa Grasso after a knockout. That's like the most exciting. Hey. This episode is brought to you by Vince Visible. Let's be honest. Wireless can feel like a world of traps, expensive bills tacked on fees, and promises that just don't hold up. You start to feel stuck. Don't fall for the trap. Escape Divisible, the ultimate wireless hack. Get unlimited data and hotspot powered by Verizon One line for just 25amonth, taxes and fees included. Get great coverage and a reliable connection with visitors. Visible. Plus, for a limited time, new members can get the Visible plan for just $20 a month for one year using code Fresh Start. Refresh your wireless with visible switch [e-mail] Terms apply. Limited time offers. Subject to change. See visible.com for plan features and network management details.

[Jim Norton]

I could people about. About Khamzat. I could watch him do that to Drake us all day long. I don't give a I. That's masterful.

[Joe Rogan]

Masterful.

[Jim Norton]

Get him off you.

[Joe Rogan]

Get up.

[Jim Norton]

People are like, oh, that's a shame. And he doesn't take chances. Dude, get. He's. He's not, like, he's not trying to beat the out of him. He's getting them tied up and he's beating them up, and he's just. He's working him over. I mean, what do you want him to stand up in the. In the crucifix? Yeah. What are you talking about?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, I mean, that's Drus's problem. Like, drinkers need to get him.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. 100. And I don't. I don't believe in standups at all, period. I think the only time you should stand up is someone fouls. If someone does a foul and then you have to stand it up, take a point away from them, maybe, then you stand him up.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, like, you can't. You shouldn't reward a guy for having, like, a defense.

[Eddie Bravo]

If the dude on the bottom is the one that fouled, put him back where they were.

[Jim Norton]

Don't worry.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right, right. Yeah, definitely. But other than that, why are you letting people stand up? Why? Guy had to work so hard to get him to the ground. Maybe he's taking a break for a couple seconds. Catching breath. Yeah, you know, like, what the do you want? Yeah, like Figure out how to get up.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Bottom people just have to be better also.

[Joe Rogan]

You know how to fix that? Here's how you fix that. Knees to the head to a down department.

[Matt Serra]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Joe Rogan]

And then it's like, fix that wrestlers. Then wrestlers become super dangerous.

[Jim Norton]

Mark Coleman won the Grand Prix. Didn't you see the Smashing Machine?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, bro.

[Jim Norton]

Did you like the Smash Machine?

[Joe Rogan]

I did.

[Jim Norton]

It was good.

[Joe Rogan]

I did. I thought the Rock was amazing. I thought, like, his acting like, like, like. You didn't think it was the Rock.

[Jim Norton]

You know, I haven't seen it yet.

[Joe Rogan]

You thought it was Mark Kerr. Like, you even got a forehead thing. Like you got like rubber put on his forehead or whatever. The.

[Matt Serra]

Give him a little, like.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, make it more Neanderthal.

[Eddie Bravo]

A little CRO magnet.

[Matt Serra]

Give him a little Frankenstein forehead.

[Jim Norton]

Almost scene by scene. It was almost like the same. Pretty much the same exact thing as the documentary.

[Joe Rogan]

It was really good.

[Jim Norton]

The documentary.

[Joe Rogan]

It's.

[Jim Norton]

It take. It's like the same shots, the same story. So. So if you've seen the documentary, which was great.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Seen that her was a great guest. I had him in the podcast. He was fun. It was really. He was a really cool guest, you know?

[Matt Serra]

No kidding.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he was really fun and just a real intelligent, like, easy to talk to.

[Matt Serra]

Like, where does he live now?

[Eddie Bravo]

Like, that is Arizona, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

I saw him in early ufcs when I was a backstage interviewer. He submitted Dan Bobish with his chin to his eye.

[Matt Serra]

I remember that.

[Eddie Bravo]

I remember that.

[Joe Rogan]

That was crazy.

[Eddie Bravo]

I remember when he came on the scene. Well, the UFC scene, when it. With the old Ranger Stot needed a face. I remember RIP Rules as well. We were about to find out.

[Jim Norton]

Morty Heinstein or something like that. The karate.

[Matt Serra]

I don't know, man. My favorite Mark Kerr fight was against Fabio Georgio down in Brazil.

[Joe Rogan]

That was crazy.

[Eddie Bravo]

That's where he got his name.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, man, That's.

[Matt Serra]

That's my man.

[Eddie Bravo]

I was a big Fabio fan and like, I mean, if you can't have respect for that guy after. After that beating he took and he never, never thought about quitting.

[Joe Rogan]

Crazy.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, yeah. Headbutts and everything.

[Joe Rogan]

Who said yes to that?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, right.

[Joe Rogan]

Let me put you guys aside. They'll explain physics. Yeah. And now I need to introduce you to steroids. That was to combine physics and steroids and like. No, you're not fighting. Marker.

[Jim Norton]

If you look at the time, that's when Jiu jitsu still had the mystique about it, though. True. You know, True. Back when they weren't but that kind of killed.

[Matt Serra]

But, like, that's when they're, like, the beginning of the end of, like, the GU Guard started for mma. It was like that because, like, those big wrestlers were just like, oh, you mean all I gotta do is block

[Joe Rogan]

his hips right there was. Do you remember when Mario Sperry fought Igor Zenovia?

[Jim Norton]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So Mario Sperry is, like, one of the first Jiu Jitsu black belts to lose in mma.

[Matt Serra]

That's right.

[Jim Norton]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

We all thought Jiu Jitsu black belts were invincible.

[Eddie Bravo]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, and Mario Sperry was elite. He was a really good black belt. Yeah. And so he fought Zenoviev, and Zenoviev stopped him.

[Matt Serra]

I remember that.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. And Mario was doing everything right. Mounting him correctly. Dude. But then he would just do one of those weird, like, super big bridges, and then his. Because he had endurance and he was able to just withstand his attack, he. He ended up cutting him or something towards the end.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it was a big cut. They stopped it from a cut.

[Jim Norton]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

Speaking of old school guys, guess who was at the UFC last week? Marillo Bustamanch. Yes, he was.

[Joe Rogan]

He was tapped twice.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

World title defense made him tap twice. Yeah. He also fought 45. Bit. He fought Tom Erickson.

[Matt Serra]

Tom Erickson, 45.

[Eddie Bravo]

Remember that?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

I thought Morello beat Chuck Liddell, too. Honestly, in that fight.

[Matt Serra]

He might have. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Somebody.

[Joe Rogan]

He was a bad. It was really good boxing and insane Jiu Jitsu, but really good boxing. One of the first guys from, like, that Carlson Gracie team, along with good wrestler, too.

[Eddie Bravo]

Like, he had good takedowns.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

You know, for a Jiu Jitsu guy, too.

[Matt Serra]

But, like, that's my point. So he at the UFC just cornering Jose Delano, and, like, no one knows who he is. And I'm like, yo, I need to give a lesson on this guy. Like, he's one of my favorite fighters of all time, but no one knows who he is.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy. He's a legend, but, you know, there's so many people now, it's like time just goes on.

[Eddie Bravo]

What a bunch of killers Carlson had

[Joe Rogan]

back in the day, man. Dude, they really did his school in 96 when all that was going down, when right before Vitor got into Barry Laborio.

[Eddie Bravo]

Carlo Barretto.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Carlo was trained there. Yeah. Sergio Cohen, he had a bunch of beasts, man. And they would. We'd watch them all train together. Mario. Mario Sperry was telling us a story about how he. When he was just starting out in Jiu Jitsu, he made his girlfriend Sit there. And he just put her in triangle after triangle after triangle. She kept complaining, watching tv, just practicing triangles on his girlfriend.

[Eddie Bravo]

We were lucky. We were talking last night about how fortunate we were to come up when we did, you know, and, like, even back at Henzo's, and you had Henzo and you had Hein coming through, you had Half coming through, you had Matt, you had Ricardo, you had Sean Alvarez. Like, we just had a ton of killers, you know? And back then, it was. I always joke about the Tap out shit, but if you saw somebody in an airport in the 90s with a tap out shirt on, you were like, you know, where you train, you know, then, now, then it to, like, JC Pennies, which is cool, because it was.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Forever 21,

[Eddie Bravo]

but it was pretty wild.

[Joe Rogan]

I had some Tap out charts. Everybody did, right? Those guys were fun.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, definitely.

[Joe Rogan]

It was a weird time, that time of mma. If you go back to, like. Like, even when, like, you and I first met, I was like, when yet? What year was that?

[Jim Norton]

2001 we met.

[Joe Rogan]

Crazy. That's crazy.

[Jim Norton]

You weren't a commentator yet, but. No, but I fought Kelly Delon Dante, and you gave me a nice shout out. We need more of that jungle jiu jitsu.

[Eddie Bravo]

Like, Matt, Sarah, when you tore that

[Jim Norton]

box, I'm like, oh, they showed that up. Yeah. That's funny. Yeah, that. That was. That was 2001. Because I mailed you a shirt.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Thank you. And then you called the academy, and I'm like, oh, what's up? That was funny, man.

[Eddie Bravo]

Nice.

[Jim Norton]

Crazy.

[Matt Serra]

But jiu jitsu was so physical then. Like, it was a physical thing. Now it's so intellectual. And, like, these nerds think they own it.

[Joe Rogan]

Autistic kids

[Matt Serra]

think they own it. It's like, yo, what. What are you talking about?

[Joe Rogan]

They start talking about technique. It's like they're talking chess moves. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

If you don't know the names. And he's like, you don't know that. It's like, dude, I know. That's. I like, what's the. When you're going for the. They kill. They call it the K guard. Yeah. Like, man, I've been doing that since the 90s, man.

[Eddie Bravo]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

first, I'm like, oh, what's the deal? You don't know the K guard? I'm like, then they show it. I go, well, yeah, yeah. I just never called it the K. But it's funny you bring up Marillo Bustamante. We talked about Fabio G Rogel back then, and I know Jiu jitsu. Evolved. But if you take those guys, you put them in the Abu Dhabi Submission Tournament, you put them in the BJJ ibjjf, and you put them in an MMA fight, their Jiu Jitsu is the same. It carries over to all.

[Matt Serra]

And they may not win, but they're competitive and they have their own right.

[Jim Norton]

Have it across the board. Yeah, somebody looked just used to scissoring or just used to legit legs, you know what I mean? That. That can't transfer over.

[Joe Rogan]

Here's what my head up. If you gun to my head, said to me, who do you think has the best Jiu Jitsu in MMA right now? My head would go, Charles Oliver.

[Eddie Bravo]

I was getting ready.

[Joe Rogan]

My first Islam Makachev finished him on the ground. So how can I say that? Right? So it my head up because I'm like. If you think about, like, elite expressions of Jiu Jitsu on the ground, like one of the most dangerous guys off his back. Oliveira Oliver is so dangerous everywhere. If he gets on top of you, you're. I mean, it was just that Max Holloway's defense is so tight and he's so tough that he didn't get finished.

[Jim Norton]

Right.

[Eddie Bravo]

How crazy it was that he was able to just manhandle him and take him down? I mean, Max. Nobody took Max down.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, he manhandled him. It was bananas. But I think Max is a guy that is like, he can fight at 45. I think it was really hard when he went up to 55 and then went down to 45. But at 45, in his prime.

[Eddie Bravo]

Oh, shit.

[Joe Rogan]

It was a perfect weight class for him. When Oliveira was fighting at 45, he was killing himself. Like, he fought like, he just was fatigued easier. But then when he went up to 55, then he became Charles Oliveira. You know, it was really all at 55, where he made his mark.

[Jim Norton]

He tried that shit, though, with Ilya. He did try to take him that down, and he tried.

[Joe Rogan]

He's in another level. Sure, he's on another level.

[Eddie Bravo]

Super well rounded, and people haven't really even seen that yet.

[Joe Rogan]

He's on a level where I can't wait for his next fights. Like, when he's fighting, I'm like, what is he gonna do now? Yeah, like, how. What is. Because I think he's getting better. I think it's not just. I think the dude is like, their approach to it. There's a documentary on YouTube, but with. They're, like, talking about how they break down all their fight camps and what they're doing in the different stuff. Stuff that they train in. Like, these dudes are on another level.

[Matt Serra]

I mean, when you think about, like, if a fight between like Ilia and Islam were to happen, like, think about like the magnitude of that of like, not only just like star power, but just in terms of skill. Oh, my God. Like breaking that down in terms of skill.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh my God.

[Matt Serra]

Like two of the best skilled fighters of all time.

[Joe Rogan]

Of all time.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That would be an insane fight. And I. I just really would like it if it happened to be at 55. Like Ill 55 would be better because Islam at 170 is probably. Probably walking around a buck 96 for sure. Jacked.

[Jim Norton]

I think Armin should be spoken about too. Look how he had a. A pretty good fight with Islam back when he. How many years ago? He was like 21. I mean, he was. I mean, scrambles.

[Joe Rogan]

Although I do have to say if the scoring was correct, I think. I think Oliveira would have beat him in that fight. Because Oliveira threatened him with some submissions.

[Matt Serra]

That is true a couple times.

[Joe Rogan]

A couple times like that to me is more valuable than holding a guy down.

[Jim Norton]

Did Armin threaten? He had an arm choke with him. Well, no, he was kind of on

[Matt Serra]

the run, but he was kind of on the run more often than we remember.

[Joe Rogan]

Like Armin was.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. In terms of like inside the guard of Oliver. Yeah, like he was kind of, you know, he was on the run.

[Joe Rogan]

It's dangerous in there, man. It's not like everybody else's. Like, there's only a few guys like him. And you know Paul Craig, bro. Paul Craig could latch on a triangle. Like that guy's beating world champions. You think about it. He beat Jamal. Broke his arm. Jamal. He beat Uncle Li. Uncle stopped him with like one second to go in the third round with a triangle. Yeah, he might have one of the best tri. What was that one dude from back in the day that won all his fights by triangle?

[Jim Norton]

Dustin?

[Joe Rogan]

No. English guy.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, I know exactly who you're talking about.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God, it's going to drive me.

[Matt Serra]

Nice little skinny English guy. He like, was all triangles. Like 11 triangles in a row.

[Joe Rogan]

He had this one move, and if he can get you to the ground and latch his legs around you, you Bill Paul.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, Paul.

[Joe Rogan]

Shout out to Paul Sass. Yeah, he was a beast. He get you in that triangle, you're. And the over doom's another one, right?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean, he was.

[Joe Rogan]

That.

[Eddie Bravo]

He triangled Fedor. I remember Fedor was Fedor.

[Joe Rogan]

I always tell people, if you want to look at One of all time greats in heavyweight. Don't look at all losses and stop right here. In the prime, who has tapped out more legends than Fabricio Verdum Minaro Fedor? I mean, that is crazy. Just those two. Kane Velasquez. That's true. He's tapped out all the legends and they weren't past the prime either. Fedor was securely in his prime.

[Matt Serra]

I remember watching that live, thinking, oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God.

[Matt Serra]

He ran right into it. He ran right into that.

[Eddie Bravo]

Jump into it. Brilliant.

[Joe Rogan]

His jiu jitsu was like scary off his back.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah. Fedor had no respect for the guard, just, you know, was trying to take his head off and just fed it to him. Yeah, man, you can't do that with a guy.

[Joe Rogan]

Not a guy like that. That's a different level.

[Jim Norton]

And plus he hit Colby in the head with a boomerang.

[Joe Rogan]

Remember that?

[Jim Norton]

There's nothing wrong with that. Give me some points for that as well.

[Matt Serra]

That was my favorite video of all time. Cuz he hit him with the boomerang and then the bag. And then Kobe was reaching out for the bag.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, you got to give him some points for that.

[Joe Rogan]

Out of all the people that I thought I was definitely going to see on the White House lawn, it was going to be a Colby Covington fight. I was like, how is he? How did you not have a Colby Covington fight at the White House?

[Matt Serra]

Man, I don't know.

[Joe Rogan]

He's like super supportive of Trump. Wears Trump hats everywhere.

[Eddie Bravo]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

And he's not a fight. They didn't get him up.

[Joe Rogan]

They didn't hook him up.

[Matt Serra]

I don't know.

[Joe Rogan]

How did that not happen?

[Jim Norton]

Bo Nickel wanted to fight him.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but that's a different weight class. Bo Nickel's a big dude.

[Eddie Bravo]

He's at 85.

[Joe Rogan]

He's at 85. Driver. Yeah, that's a. You know, Colby's not a big 70.

[Jim Norton]

Is he something?

[Joe Rogan]

A great size for Colby. This episode is brought to you by Intuit. TurboTax. April 15th is coming fast. There's been so many tax law changes this year, which means you're going to need an expert who has your back. You're in luck. TurboTax now has in person locations nationwide. Walk into their tech enabled stores and meet face to face with a turbo tax full service expert who will get your best outcome. Your expert works to get you every dollar you deserve while updating you as you go about your day. Head to turbotax.com to find a store near you. This episode is brought to you by Simply Safe. Have you ever looked into getting a security system? A lot of these companies can leave you feeling trapped, which is the last thing you want when it comes to your safety. They lock you into these absurdly long contracts and you have to take time out of your day to wait for a technician. As a longtime supporter of this show, Simply Safe is nothing like that. Simply Save gives you the flexibility to choose what type of system you want and when to set it up. With no long term contracts or hidden fees, it ships to your door and you can easily install it. No technicians or drilling required. And I'm not just talking about a porch camera here. You can get the whole shebang. Sensors, cameras, inside and out, out. And 24, seven professional monitoring. They earn your business by actually working. Simplisafe has even been called America's best customer service by Newsweek. It's clear why over 5 million people continue to use Simplisafe every day. Everyone deserves to have peace of mind. Simplisafe is offering an exclusive discount to my listeners. And right now you can get 50% off your new system by visiting simplis safe.com rogan that's half [e-mail] rogan there's no safe like simply safe.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, no, no, I don't watch.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's going to be interesting.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, I think Chris a little big for him.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, I think that should go well for one.

[Joe Rogan]

Who is Joaquim fighting next?

[Jim Norton]

Brady. Sean Brady.

[Eddie Bravo]

Sean Brady.

[Joe Rogan]

Is that in Miami? No, that's. No, that's in Jersey, right? Yeah, that's right.

[Matt Serra]

I'll be out in Philly next week with Brady.

[Jim Norton]

Shout out.

[Joe Rogan]

Joaquim was on a tear until Kamaru

[Jim Norton]

got a hold of him.

[Eddie Bravo]

That's shout out to Brady.

[Joe Rogan]

That's why.

[Eddie Bravo]

That's one of his shirts.

[Joe Rogan]

The two guys that are like most worthy for a shot at the welterweight title. I mean, you, you gotta think Ian Gary, but you also gotta think Kamaru because he doesn't have much time left. And he's a legend, right? One of the greatest welterweights of all time. And then he just beats Joaquin Buckley like that. I mean like walking and Monster.

[Eddie Bravo]

Buckley was on the fast rise to

[Joe Rogan]

knock down wonder boy. That wonder boy beat the out of Kobe. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Out of Colby, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

Beat the out of him. Wake doesn't get tired either, which is crazy. Like you look at his physique. Yeah. You think he get tired passed out? He just his. He keeps that gas going for three rounds. Full clip. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Believe I've been watching him, right.

[Matt Serra]

Been watching him for a month.

[Jim Norton]

Months now. N. Sean Brady, I think.

[Joe Rogan]

Old turtle shell. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That back of his is so popular.

[Jim Norton]

He's staying at that weight, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

He's not going down.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

What about Oldberg and Jerry this weekend?

[Joe Rogan]

You know what, man? Oh. If you. If you're looking at it on paper, if you like, if you just watch their movements, Oldberg is really fast. He's really accurate, and he's slick and he's a big tall with great skills. Yuri creates. Creates chaos.

[Jim Norton]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

And in that chaos, you don't know exactly how someone's gonna respond when the guy's still there, when you crack him and he's all over you and he's doing wild. He's got a ponytail at the top of his head. He's a maniac. But he's not faking it.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, no.

[Eddie Bravo]

He believes everything he says.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that dude. That's how that dude really lives. Like, he really does hit trees in the woods. He goes out there with a makiwara.

[Jim Norton]

It's.

[Joe Rogan]

He does all the hard style Japanese and you know, he spends time in the woods by himself alone.

[Jim Norton]

He does. He swims under the ice. He does the.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, I saw that. I actually saw a video.

[Jim Norton]

That dude.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

I mean, you have to find where the hole is and you got.

[Matt Serra]

You got to come back.

[Eddie Bravo]

We had some people in there too, just in case. Isn't that crazy?

[Joe Rogan]

Listen, man, just look at that dude. His ancestors came over on a boat with a skull on it and they had swords. They hopped off and started slicing all them guys. That dude is a Viking. Whatever he is that war, those warrior genes, like, that's in that. That dude takes you to hell. He takes.

[Jim Norton]

He just can't.

[Eddie Bravo]

He guts his way.

[Matt Serra]

That's it.

[Joe Rogan]

That style just doesn't work with Pereira.

[Eddie Bravo]

So that's what I'm wondering. Does he walk into one here? Because he's gonna get hit. Khalil beat the living out of him for two rounds and then over ran out of gas.

[Joe Rogan]

Hoberg's a big guy too. Khalil's not a big. You know, if you look. If you look at him in comparison to some of the other guys weight

[Eddie Bravo]

class, he can make 85.

[Joe Rogan]

Here's. Here's one that people are sleeping on. Mzakhanoff. Yeah. You think who I'm lean.

[Eddie Bravo]

I'm leaning Palos Pa. You almost sold

[Matt Serra]

me on that yesterday. But mercy kind of man.

[Joe Rogan]

Undefeated.

[Matt Serra]

Undefeated.

[Joe Rogan]

Let me tell you.

[Eddie Bravo]

37 and fought nobody. I'm riding true.

[Joe Rogan]

He put Rockets to sleep, though. Yeah, Sleep in the first round. Yeah, dude, he's slick. He does in there. I'm like, he calls himself the professional, and that's like. He seems like a hitman, like some Russian hitman that comes to kill.

[Eddie Bravo]

He believes in his power. That's a fact.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not just his power, man. It's his skills. When I look at him, I'm like, this is a smart guy. Like, he moves like a smart guy. Everything's calculated, everything's technical. He's really hard to hit clean.

[Jim Norton]

He's a.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a slick character. And he does shit, too. Like, he overreaches, but he overreaches, I think, on purpose to get reads off you. If he senses the guy's moving away, he'll come in with big shots that he doesn't to try to get a. Get you to react and then counter like that. That right hook that he hit him with was almost like a jab.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That he dropped rockets with.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Just saw the. Saw this move. Movement that Rockets kept doing over and over again. Bang. Came in with like a straight right jab. Almost like a hook jab.

[Eddie Bravo]

Palo's got a chin.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at that. Watch that again. Look how slick this is. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Boom.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a killer, man.

[Jim Norton]

We don't know what Paul Acosta is going to look like at 205, though. He's never fought it that way.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, didn't he once when he didn't make weight for 85?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah. He forced Marvin Vettori. He was like, no, this fight is at 205 now.

[Joe Rogan]

Remember that? Izzy his mind up. I think he definitely did.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean, but he looked the best he's looked. His last fight, like he copilov. He just ran through him, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

You go back to when he was. When he was walking people down. Like, walk down yellow. I remember he was a bizarre.

[Matt Serra]

I remember when he saluted Paul. You well remember in the middle of the fight. That was my favorite part.

[Jim Norton]

It was a good.

[Joe Rogan]

That was a great fight, but nobody walks down.

[Matt Serra]

Yo.

[Joe Rogan]

About Romero like that. There's that photo. That one photo of him head kicking Yol. And Yol's face is like, all distorted. And you're like, how did he take that shot?

[Jim Norton]

This is his neck.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, his neck is fused. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's all one thing.

[Jim Norton]

Does it move?

[Joe Rogan]

It's connected to his skull.

[Jim Norton]

That's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Isn't that nuts?

[Eddie Bravo]

He's in these comments.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at that. Look at that. Photo, Bro, that photo's bonkers. Imagine, imagine how tough you got to be to be Yoel Romero and take that to the head when you know your neck has been through an insane operation where you have metal connecting the spine of your neck to your head.

[Eddie Bravo]

Start. They implanted monster traps to hold his

[Joe Rogan]

head up at the same time. Yeah, they were like, he's a such a freak. Yeah, he's an athletic freak. And you see, he just fought bare knuckles.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

49.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And a lot of people disputed the decision. They thought he should have won one.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

In Russia.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

I don't.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. I don't know how he does it.

[Joe Rogan]

He looks great.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. I don't know how he does it.

[Joe Rogan]

If you told me he was 32, I believe you.

[Eddie Bravo]

He's RA. Did Raf as well.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Who did he beat? Pat down and then he came back and he Back.

[Matt Serra]

But he lost the next one.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, but he was wrestled a legit dude.

[Joe Rogan]

The guy that I'm most impressed with in that is Arman. Oh, I can't believe how good he is. A wrestler? Yeah. Who's the duty? Techfald?

[Jim Norton]

Georgie?

[Eddie Bravo]

Georgio.

[Joe Rogan]

No, no, no. The. The Lance.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, Lance Palmer.

[Joe Rogan]

That's Lance Palmer. Legit Palmer is a legit wrestler for sure.

[Matt Serra]

Lance was like, oh, he's never wrestled at my level. He's never wrestled guys at my level. Armin goes up there. Tech falls.

[Eddie Bravo]

Giorgio did better.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But even Georgio, like, you watch those videos that he does, like $100 thousand or whatever. Whatever it is.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Armin is a bad man, dude. He's a bad man.

[Jim Norton]

I know it. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

If you wanted to fight for Ilia at 55, that's a very interesting fight. 100% very interesting because he's hard to hit. He's very slick and tactical, super flexible. Like, you ever seen those weird, like, mobility exercises he does with twists and with weights, crazy bridges, crazy flex flexibility.

[Matt Serra]

He's definitely in his prime, man. He can't waste his life away right now, headbutting people. Do the right thing because you are in your prime right now. And it doesn't last forever.

[Eddie Bravo]

He might already be champ if he could keep it together outside of the 100. You know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Like, if the. Who knows what would have happened in the Oliveira fight? It was a proper fight, a five rounder, you know?

[Jim Norton]

He's staying busy, though. It's not like he's on the couch. You know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

He's doing those videos.

[Eddie Bravo]

That's right.

[Matt Serra]

He put Mok I have to sleep a couple weeks ago.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, that was a little too much.

[Joe Rogan]

That was a lot.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

125er.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, but like, he kept it. Whenever they keep it on when the guy's already sleeping for too long, it's like. Yeah, what are you. What's going on here? You know, he. You gotta know, he's out the happening.

[Joe Rogan]

Maybe some unkind words were exchanged.

[Eddie Bravo]

That's kind of my fault process.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm sure that happened, right? He's been known to say kicked out of the UFC for what happened with him.

[Matt Serra]

I heard he was just, like, mean to people. Like, mean to the staff. That's what I heard. He was just, like, mean to the staff.

[Jim Norton]

Yo, I wasn't even talk. I was talking about when he did it to a streamer. I'm not talking about that fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, we're talking about a. No, no, no.

[Jim Norton]

I'm talking about him doing it to, like, it. Just putting a. A. Some buddy to sleep of his friends, the guys with his other.

[Eddie Bravo]

I don't think I saw that.

[Jim Norton]

It was with him on a couch, and he put the guy to sleep. This is a regular Joe Arman did this. Yeah, man. Jamie. No, no, no.

[Matt Serra]

Sorry.

[Jim Norton]

Jamie put you to work.

[Matt Serra]

Jamie. But.

[Jim Norton]

Yo, yo, he put him to sleep and he held that on for an extra how? Too many seconds. Look at this. Watch this. Oh, no. I'm telling you. You tell me if you think it's too long.

[Joe Rogan]

That guy's neck makes me sad. But now, look, to know he's going to do that to him. Now, look, I'm going to have to see this now. Ready?

[Jim Norton]

Let's see. Now he's out, right?

[Joe Rogan]

He lasted a long time.

[Matt Serra]

Yo, let go, man. What are you doing?

[Joe Rogan]

What the.

[Matt Serra]

He's out already.

[Jim Norton]

Like me for hours.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, that's really crazy. That's really.

[Matt Serra]

You are killer.

[Joe Rogan]

That's really crazy.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, that was.

[Joe Rogan]

That's so unnecessary.

[Jim Norton]

That's what I'm saying.

[Joe Rogan]

What the. Yeah, that's. That's a lot worse than I thought it was going to be.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Sorry, guys. I hate to bring the room down,

[Joe Rogan]

but that's the crazy thing is Armin knows he was out right away.

[Jim Norton]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Joe Rogan]

Also, that guy's neck looks like it's never been choked. I felt exactly what he was going to do to it when I saw his neck. His neck is making me feel sad because I know that's going to hurt. That gorilla. That dude's got a clamp on him, man.

[Jim Norton]

Little Having soup for a week after that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, right.

[Jim Norton]

That's a problem.

[Joe Rogan]

Arman's grip is so incredible, man. I'm just very impressed with him, man. Very impressed with his grappling. I just wish he could keep it together.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. I mean, I mean, his striking is not bad neither. Like, he's okay.

[Joe Rogan]

His first fight with Islam was very close. Very close. First fight in the ufc. I don't even think you got a full camp.

[Matt Serra]

Probably not.

[Joe Rogan]

I. I think it was a short notice fight and he fought very well. You know, he's. He's at the. It's just like crazy that fuckups have kept him from being. At the time. The, the missing. The title fight was the big one.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That was the craziest one. Like, his back hurt the day before.

[Eddie Bravo]

Like, come on.

[Joe Rogan]

It's crazy.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And you make a. Not to Moana go out there and, you know, not. Not having prepared for him. McConnell looked good against Duncan. I like when he gets on that mic too. He starts talking.

[Eddie Bravo]

That's awesome. I wish he would have started talking even earlier. Like, I always like the guy, but he's hilarious.

[Matt Serra]

He might be the best in the business right now.

[Eddie Bravo]

Funny man.

[Joe Rogan]

He's just not getting enough mic time. When he gets on the mic Time Money,

[Eddie Bravo]

their podcast. He's good. You know, he's good on there with him enough. Think Gilbert, you know, they all.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that was the thing. He's. He's doing some streams on, and he's doing them in English and in Portuguese, but the Portuguese is doing better for him.

[Eddie Bravo]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

And he's like, I'm making money off YouTube now. Like, so I don't care anymore. Yeah, I, I'm. I have my money. Like, I have a big stream of revenue coming in from.

[Matt Serra]

You subscribe to my channel.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a character.

[Matt Serra]

You need that.

[Jim Norton]

You need some personalities in there.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he's good too. Remember, like, his. His fight with Benoit San Denis?

[Jim Norton]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. And Sandin is on his way to potential future title shop.

[Matt Serra]

That win looks real good.

[Joe Rogan]

Good. Real good. You can't judge him on that. Short notice.

[Matt Serra]

I know.

[Eddie Bravo]

What do you guys think of Hokut's?

[Joe Rogan]

He's so fun. You think it's fun? I think it's fun.

[Matt Serra]

I don't get it, man. I don't get it. I don't get it.

[Jim Norton]

What are you talking about? Talking?

[Eddie Bravo]

It's not. It's not witty. Like, it ain't funny. It ain't witty. It looks like he's trying too hard.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly. I love it.

[Matt Serra]

No, I don't get it.

[Joe Rogan]

He's like a pro wrestler. It's like pro wrestling. He's a smart dudes, bro. You talk that guy. He's a smart dude. He knows what he's doing. He's being a goof. And here's the thing about people that act really goofy and stupid. You kind of. You okay. Ain't like they can trick you. They can trick you.

[Eddie Bravo]

You think he's going to beat Curtis?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know, man. Curtis is a lot. You know, it's a big.

[Eddie Bravo]

Especially this early in his career.

[Joe Rogan]

Curtis has a lot of power. He's a big.

[Eddie Bravo]

He's gonna be a better wrestler.

[Joe Rogan]

Probably a lot of MMA experience, but Hokut's a hard dude to solve. He's a really good wrestler. And he's hyper aggressive. And he's got his fast, too. He's definitely. He's fast.

[Eddie Bravo]

He's athletic.

[Joe Rogan]

He's. He's a one of the guys that I have my eye on.

[Eddie Bravo]

You think he can make 205 or you think he should? I mean, well, heavyweight's light, so perhaps maybe stay there.

[Joe Rogan]

But really, we're just waiting for Gable.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, right. We're rich.

[Eddie Bravo]

He's getting Romanov, I think, is wrestling him.

[Jim Norton]

And.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I would not let him do that. I'd be like, what if you blow your academy?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

What are you crazy? Why are you doing this? You're going to be the heavyweight champion of the ufc.

[Jim Norton]

They got to be paying.

[Matt Serra]

And Romanov's a big dude, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, look, I think Gab. I think he'll be fine. But when you think of guys that are like a Mike Tyson in mma, like when Mike Tyson was coming up, that's what I. When I think of when I see him.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm like, how do you deal with that? Right? How the do you deal with that? He moves like a cat. He's 240 pounds, Olympic gold medalist and

[Eddie Bravo]

he can KO smart ass guy in his corner.

[Joe Rogan]

And he's got Jon Jones as a mentor. Are you crazy?

[Eddie Bravo]

Fight iq. John's, you know, the highest. One of the smartest guys.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You got that guy in your corner and everybody's saying, I mean, he's on the only guys that isn't even in the UFC yet that I had him on my podcast. I was like, I gotta talk.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean, he's accomplished, I think enough. Anyway, he's already a Olympic gold medalist, NCAA champion. He's young, gotta be mid-20s.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, he's young. He's young and he. They're doing it smart. You know, they gave him one of those. What do they call? Dirty boxing? Dirty boxing.

[Eddie Bravo]

Dude, did you see. Jumped over.

[Joe Rogan]

Jumped over the rope like it was not.

[Eddie Bravo]

Was pretty sick.

[Joe Rogan]

He just stood there and leapt over the ropes. After he won, like, the whole.

[Eddie Bravo]

Dude, after he would. When he would. He won the NCAA Championships, like, he can do like, round offs and like the. Like, literally boom, boom, boom. Like a gymnast. It's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

And I guarantee you that attribute that's we attribute to the speed that he has and covering distance. He's dangerous. Man, watch this. Watch when he goes over this rope.

[Eddie Bravo]

This is.

[Joe Rogan]

Is crazy. Damn.

[Jim Norton]

BJ Pen jumping out of the pool right there.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, that is crazy.

[Matt Serra]

But he just.

[Joe Rogan]

He just stuck the landing and started twerking effortlessly. He's a monster dude. Real hard problem for people.

[Eddie Bravo]

Anybody that wrestled named Gable, you better be good.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And named after Dan.

[Eddie Bravo]

After Dan Gable.

[Matt Serra]

Damn.

[Joe Rogan]

So he's been wrestling since he's a toddler. And he's just such a athlete and so smart, just dedicated. They're doing it smart, too. They're not just jumping him into the UFC right away. He's getting famous outside the ufc.

[Jim Norton]

That's the way you do it, for sure.

[Eddie Bravo]

You try to bring them along as much as you can.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you're 10 and 10. Come on, son.

[Matt Serra]

Well, when they sign and they gotta get. They're gonna give him more than that.

[Joe Rogan]

But the thing is, you don't.

[Eddie Bravo]

He ain't getting.

[Joe Rogan]

Some people are of the opinion that you don't want to give a young fighter too much money early because it'll ruin their motivation.

[Matt Serra]

There's so. I mean, there's truth in that, but I mean, it's not. Who's that for you to say, though?

[Jim Norton]

You know what I'm saying?

[Matt Serra]

Like, I want my money.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

You don't get to determine that. I want my money.

[Joe Rogan]

Guess what? I think the cream will still rise to the top. I think the guys that are dedicated, that have a lot. Like Floyd Mayweather when he was worth hundreds of millions of dollars, would still never drink and run home from the club instead of people driving his Rolls Royce, running behind it.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

I mean, look at. Look at Armin, man. That guy's got money. He doesn't give a. He's got a private jet. Yeah, he's just.

[Matt Serra]

Armin's got a private jet.

[Joe Rogan]

At least he's always on a private jet. Seems like he owns it.

[Jim Norton]

Jesus. Yeah, I think he's got some cash.

[Joe Rogan]

His Family has tons of.

[Jim Norton]

Of money. Yeah. But he still has a desire to be the best.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

You know what I mean? It's either in you or it's not

[Eddie Bravo]

with that, you know, maybe that's why he can't get his attitude together too.

[Joe Rogan]

Perhaps. Right. He doesn't need it.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. A bit spoiled in that way. Right.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

Who's disciplining him? You know what I mean? He runs his town, I'm sure.

[Joe Rogan]

What do you guys think about Hamza and Strickland?

[Jim Norton]

I.

[Joe Rogan]

That's.

[Jim Norton]

Well, let me tell you, this comes

[Matt Serra]

down to Strickland's mind.

[Jim Norton]

Motivation. Well, I mean, you got to be motivated. But I mean, he's worked with him before. I mean, they. I know they say that com out submitted him, but if you hear Strickland talk about it, they were doing like when you're starting on the back.

[Eddie Bravo]

Started on his back.

[Jim Norton]

I mean, come on. But I think when they moved around, I think he feels pretty confident with it. He's a hard guy to keep down, Sean.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And cardio is going to be on point. Who made comments out there? Look human. Gilbert Burns, Kamara Usman. I mean, they made him look human, you know, and Drake is again, not. You don't want to see that rematch,

[Eddie Bravo]

but take the fifth round.

[Jim Norton]

But in that fifth round, he. He did get into some decent positions. He just got reversed right away. I mean, Sean, if there's any bit of blood in the water, he's a finisher.

[Joe Rogan]

He's.

[Jim Norton]

You know what I mean? He'll stay on him or if he's hurt at all, he's durable. I mean, and everybody's saying how underrated his grappling is, the guys that are working with him. So I. I mean, it's.

[Joe Rogan]

That's all I've heard too. And he's so hard to hit, man. He's got a weird style. It's very weird. He you up and he's really good at moving back away from circling out

[Eddie Bravo]

while the hands are in your face.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's weird. He also throws like looping shots on purpose sometimes. Like, you would think it's bad technique, but he's like finding a way around your guard.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And he's catching you with weird stuff. And his jab is on point.

[Jim Norton]

Was you, did you. Were you. Nothing.

[Matt Serra]

Was you calling that one? No, I was there for that. And you could hear it. Like, you don't always hear that. You could hear the thud in his jab when Fluffy was blocking him.

[Jim Norton]

And it was hard.

[Eddie Bravo]

He was mixing his kicks in there. Well, he's gonna have to watch that.

[Joe Rogan]

And he wasn't getting hit, man. The thing about him, if you, if you watch him when he's on point, he's so hard to hit. He just up with Alex, you just can't make any mistakes.

[Eddie Bravo]

It seems like everybody up with Alex.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he's the freak.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. He doesn't negotiate with you. He's just like, you up, it's over.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you, do you think that I. Do you think that translates to heavyweight with Gone? I don't think so.

[Matt Serra]

I, I think Gon is a little

[Eddie Bravo]

bit too, I think would decision him good chance of dancing and, and jabbing his way to victory.

[Matt Serra]

But that's what I'm saying, like Scott is gone is going to like, if he put him.

[Eddie Bravo]

I think Alex will. Could put him out.

[Joe Rogan]

Here's one thing is gone hasn't been £185 since he was 12. Right? Yeah. I mean, that's a big.

[Eddie Bravo]

Oh, he's huge.

[Joe Rogan]

Athletic moves like a cat. And he's got world class striking skills. Man, that Tom Aspinall fight that first round opened up a lot of eyes. Like, he looked good, man.

[Jim Norton]

It opened eyes, all right. Tom's eyes. Hey, dude, I feel bad for Tom, man, because talk about a guy that got the end of the stick, right?

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Knuckle deep in his eyes. Two surgeries and everybody's like, ah, walk it off.

[Eddie Bravo]

Really, really was.

[Joe Rogan]

I just think that was handled poorly right after the fact. You know, I think you have to address right after the fact that you have to probably tell people like, what kind of injuries can be sustained from this? They're permanent. Look at Michael Bisping. Still can't see out of his right eye. You can't, you can't just have a guy go back into a fight when he can't see. It's crazy. It's crazy to ask the guy's eyes been injured, if he gets hit, hit again, it could rupture. Who knows, who knows what kind of damage you have back.

[Matt Serra]

So who do you think was irresponsible response?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I mean, but in terms of handling the situation afterwards, you think it was Tom's fault or the UFC for not being like, getting his back on it?

[Joe Rogan]

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[Matt Serra]

Point deduction right away.

[Joe Rogan]

Point deduction is the easiest. Yeah, one I. You touch someone's eyeball with Your fingers. Well, unless it's a complete scramble. Yeah. Doing this. His head happens to be there.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But if you're doing this when a guy's coming in and your fingers go in his eyes. One point. Every time. Every time. No, no judges discretion.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

No. You know, no referee's discretion. Poke in the eye. Ow. One point.

[Eddie Bravo]

Did you ever ask Dana about the pride gloves? What happened to him?

[Joe Rogan]

I did.

[Eddie Bravo]

You know, because they should own that.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't remember the tech.

[Eddie Bravo]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

That's good. The best stuff is Trevor Whitman.

[Eddie Bravo]

Right. Just pay the man a little bit of money.

[Joe Rogan]

I was trying to broke or something and I might still be able to do that. To try to figure out a way to just like those gloves are perfect. The knuckles curve over. Your hands are in this position. It does not impede your grappling. It's easy to do that if you want to, but the natural position is like this. So if you're doing this, it's because you wanted to do that. It's not like the gloves are forcing your hand open like a lot of people complain about.

[Jim Norton]

Now they can just scientist on this.

[Joe Rogan]

Here's the mad scientist. Cover the tips of the fingers. You don't use them anywhere. True. Nobody does this. Right. So if you don't. If you're always grappling like this. Right?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So cover it with like a mitten.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Little mittens.

[Joe Rogan]

Like a leather.

[Jim Norton]

With a leather top.

[Joe Rogan]

Like a nice little mitten. So it's. Your thumbs are free. So you still have some potential eye pokes from thumbs. But that mitigates a lot of that mitigates a lot of it. And you completely stop all this stuff because now you have a solid turn. It's not going to go knuckle deep in. One finger goes in. One finger's on your eyebrows and it just digging in. That's crazy. That would all stop if you had a mitten.

[Matt Serra]

Well, I mean, there's not a lot of eye pokes in bare knuckle.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, Right.

[Jim Norton]

That is interesting.

[Matt Serra]

And it's because they're always like this.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Because they're noticed, these guys. They get in there and they're just like. Yeah. So the way to stop it, really. I mean, it's take away points and guys will be like this more.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I wonder if there would be less eye pokes in just. If you just think about MMA with gloves on, it was if it was just boxing and no kicking and takedowns, maybe it's like all the different possibilities of things that's what it is like,

[Matt Serra]

it's like they're trying to, like, avoid the takedown and everything. And blocking kicks.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, everything. So that's why you're doing this, because, like, Muay Thai guys do this all the time. Boxing guys very rarely do that. No, very rarely.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Unless they're showing off and they're about to hit you with a big right hand. Like Deontay Wilder, right?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, he'll be.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, old school. Literally, like hold his fist in front of your face and then Wing 1, Wing A nuclear bomb at your head.

[Matt Serra]

I think you just got to discourage guys to close your hands, cover the fingers.

[Eddie Bravo]

Does he fight Joshua?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Eddie Bravo]

I thought I heard something about that.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a tough fight.

[Matt Serra]

He's too skinny for that.

[Joe Rogan]

He looked good in the Chisora fight. And moments. There was moments he said, I love you, and then Chisora said, I love you too. Oh, and then he hit him, knocked him out of the ring.

[Jim Norton]

Jesus.

[Joe Rogan]

Deontay said he. He backed off on him because he saw he was hurt and he wanted him to go home to his family.

[Jim Norton]

I love you too. And he.

[Joe Rogan]

Deontay, did ayahuasca. And I think a lot of times when a. A straight up assassin like Deontay Wilder meets God.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Probably takes a lot of that mean out of your heart. You need a little of that mean to land those haymakers. You got to be angry.

[Eddie Bravo]

True.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. You don't want to be ha. A hippie when you're going in there.

[Joe Rogan]

You want to talk about one punch power, though, that guy might be the greatest of all time. Deontay, he was, like, pretty damn close. 48 knockouts. Yeah. 49 fights.

[Jim Norton]

He was.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, he was people up.

[Eddie Bravo]

And he was not a great technical boxer. He started late in life. That right hand just was. Thor's hammer was dropping on people's heads.

[Joe Rogan]

Teddy Alice always calls it the eraser. Any mistakes you make, that right hand erases them all.

[Matt Serra]

I always wanted to see him fight Inano.

[Joe Rogan]

That would have been wild.

[Matt Serra]

That would have been the fight to make him and would have been the

[Eddie Bravo]

fight to make them two bombing at each other.

[Joe Rogan]

They could actually still do that?

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, why not?

[Joe Rogan]

They could still do that. Like in Gano. If you want to look at it from a business standpoint, man, that guy's killed it, right?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Went over, got that crazy contract with the pfl. He got a chance to fight Tyson Fury knocks him down, becomes a legend, then gets a big money fight with Anthony Joshua. That doesn't go so good. Well, and then he has the. His reintroduction to MMA. He fights that dude Hannon, right. The 6 and a Ferrari guy takes him down, smashes them, beats him down. So he made what, 20 million in that fight? Something crazy like that. He had a crazy contract, right?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And he had a contract where his opponent had a million. At least 2 million.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Who does that?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

How do you not love the guy? How do you not love that? Right?

[Matt Serra]

He.

[Joe Rogan]

He puts it into. His opponent must make at least $2 million.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And now he's got to be making a lot for this Netflix.

[Joe Rogan]

Netflix thing. They got to pay him because they need legit names. Yeah. And you know Felipe Lyns, he fought at light heavyweight in ufc, right?

[Matt Serra]

Yep. Yeah, I. I worked with him a bit at Top Team, and I mean, I just. This is a big moment for him. It's all I can say. Like, I don't know how he's gonna do. It's a big moment for him.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

I'm happy Nate is making that money. Mike Perry. Three, two. I'm happy for them.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I heard those guys are getting paid. It's nice, because this is. This is a thing where if a fighter is in contract negotiations, they have their last fight on the contract and they decide not to fight or not to sign until after the fight. Yeah. They do make that decision, which legally they can do, Right?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And all of a sudden, no actually calling.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Especially if you win big. If you win big. Knockout.

[Jim Norton]

Sure.

[Joe Rogan]

And then, you know, you come over to Netflix and make what, 12.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

A fight. That's nuts. And that forces everybody. Forces everybody's hand. That's what business is supposed to do. That's how it's supposed to operate. It's good. That's what's good for the fighters. That's the most important thing. And that's good writers.

[Matt Serra]

But that's. But that's just like. That's why I'm hoping that this Netflix thing can be sustainable.

[Joe Rogan]

I hope so too.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Because, like, if they just do a

[Joe Rogan]

one off or it's like, again, I'm a terrible businessman.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. I'm terrible.

[Joe Rogan]

Terrible at it.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, me too.

[Joe Rogan]

But just give the money to the fighters.

[Matt Serra]

They.

[Joe Rogan]

They. They're the ones who fight. Right. Without that, you got nothing. Right. Everybody's making plenty of money.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Come on.

[Jim Norton]

It's gonna be big, though, for sure, this thing. Everybody's gonna watch it.

[Joe Rogan]

I think 100. It'll be huge because it's. Everybody has Netflix they're gonna watch it. It's gonna be crazy. Rhonda could become a superstar again. Well, she's already a superstar, but I mean, if she wins again, then people start talking about, like, maybe Ron is going to come back to the ufc, and then maybe Ron is like a WWE moment. Rhonda and Dana shake hands on a stage with, like, Erica Kirk. Fireworks going off behind them.

[Eddie Bravo]

Andrewski dance.

[Joe Rogan]

Rhonda Kayla Harrison, White House lawn number two next, next summer.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, I don't. I don't think she would do well in the ufc, but this is great for her.

[Jim Norton]

She's done with the WWE in all that stuff.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I bet it's probably hard for a. I mean, she probably enjoyed the job. It was a great job, made her a lot of money, but it's probably hard for an elite competitor to do these stage things. She's an elite competitor because, like, instinctively,

[Matt Serra]

she just wants to do compete.

[Joe Rogan]

100.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

She doesn't want to fake compete.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean, some guys did it, right. Kurt Angle turned out to be a real good pro wrestler, you know, despite being.

[Joe Rogan]

Listen, it's a great, great gig, don't get me wrong, but I'm saying, for someone who still can fight, your angle

[Eddie Bravo]

was done at that point when he went to pro wrestling.

[Jim Norton]

I went to.

[Joe Rogan]

Won the Olympics with a broken neck.

[Eddie Bravo]

She's savage.

[Jim Norton]

I just went to the. The headquarters in Connecticut. It's pretty well nice. Yeah, she's very nice. Stephanie McMahon Nice. And I seen that whole place. If you're into wwe, it's like a nerd gas, right? I'm not really, really into it. Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

He's already been there, I'm sure.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, yeah, he would.

[Joe Rogan]

He's working with them now.

[Jim Norton]

Is he?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah, yeah. He's doing stuff with the wwe.

[Eddie Bravo]

Is he writing for him or.

[Joe Rogan]

He's gonna be in some shows. He's gonna be a bad guy doing some things.

[Eddie Bravo]

He should be like a manager.

[Joe Rogan]

Happy. I'm so happy.

[Eddie Bravo]

That's great.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know how much I could talk about this. I have to be quiet. I don't know how much this public, but they're doing. They've already. They're already announcing. They're doing some stuff with Kill Tony and he's going to roast like, WWE people. They're going to do some stuff like that. They're. They're doing a lot of collaborations together. It's perfect. That guy's a giant wrestling fan.

[Jim Norton]

He loves it. Yeah. The guys that love it, love it.

[Joe Rogan]

That's. It he love.

[Matt Serra]

And he's the best roaster, too, man. When I be seeing him at the fights, I don't say. I'm like, yo, I don't want him coming at me.

[Jim Norton]

He had Dana's back, my boy. Yeah, he had Dana's back for the time we had to do that. That thing at the Laugh Factory.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jim Norton]

We're gonna do this thing, and nobody's coming in. Prepared me well. He had Tony Hincliff

[Matt Serra]

two months prior.

[Joe Rogan]

That's hilarious. Yeah, Tony's the best at that. He's the best at cracking people. Cracking on people and cutting people down.

[Jim Norton]

But the people that love that, that soap opera, like, World of the WWE movie, it's. I don't hate on it. I want to see how much they love it.

[Joe Rogan]

It keeps you entertained.

[Jim Norton]

They like it. You know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

They're really smart at mixing things up and bringing in new characters and having new crazy moments. And if you're a nerd like Tony, like, they go nuts. But it's like you. You're. It's like the same escape.

[Eddie Bravo]

It's like a. It's a male soap opera.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But it's like the same kind of escape that you get if you're watching Game of Thrones. It's just an escape for sure. This is crazy. Oh, my God. He's back from the dead.

[Matt Serra]

See, I. But that's where I draw the line. I draw the line there. I can't do that. And I got.

[Jim Norton]

I ain't got no.

[Matt Serra]

I ain't got no problem with it. I just can't do it.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm in the same camp as you. It's not my thing. I don't watch it. But I respect it. I respect how hard it is to do.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's very difficult to do.

[Matt Serra]

Remember, Matt, we wrestled it in Memphis.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. We did a little thing in the street we had, but we were just winging it. Yeah. I was hop. Just let me get a submission, you know, you fight me off. I need. Come on, man. Let me distract.

[Matt Serra]

I hurt my knee. It was tough, man.

[Joe Rogan]

I ain't.

[Matt Serra]

I was like, damn, this is harder than I thought.

[Eddie Bravo]

Oh, them guys take a beating for sure. You can learn how to fall, but you're still falling.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I met Hulk Hogan twice. Well, I met him before when he did a promo with me with the ufc. It was when we were on. I think we were on Spike back then.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But I met him a long time ago, and he's like. He was 6 foot, 5 he's this giant dude. I was like, holy, it's hard Hulk Hogan. And then I saw him the last time he did my podcast, and he's like 4 inches shorter. And it's all from getting all of his spine fused.

[Jim Norton]

About to say, you're the same height now. I'm like, wait a minute.

[Joe Rogan]

He was like a big guy still, but it was. He used to be a giant. He was like this towering, crazy guy, bald head. He was so fun. That dude was so fun. But that's how many back surgery he had. And he said it was all from that movie that he had. We dropped down.

[Eddie Bravo]

And then the big seat drop.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly. So the seat drop. Every time he does that, he's compressing his discs. 300.

[Eddie Bravo]

Like 300 plus.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, £300 every night. Dropping down every night and just blowing his back out. His back was just destroyed.

[Eddie Bravo]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Destroyed every. Every vertebrae. Destroyed every disc blown apart. Herniations all throughout it. Barely could walk.

[Jim Norton]

I was watching the Princess Bride the other day with the giant.

[Joe Rogan]

What a great.

[Jim Norton]

Anybody want a peanut? Yeah, he's great.

[Joe Rogan]

My name is Diego Montoya. Love that you killed my father.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

It was such a great. Such a great movie.

[Joe Rogan]

Great movie.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Put that on for the family. Have the kids watch it. It's a classic.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's one the. That lasts ages. It goes through generations. Look at that.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Yeah, it holds up. You know,

[Joe Rogan]

they don't make them like that anymore.

[Jim Norton]

I just saw that project Hail Mary. That's a nice one for the family.

[Joe Rogan]

What is that?

[Jim Norton]

It's with Ryan Gosling goes to space and has to save the world type of thing. But, you know, it's more than that. But that's pretty much the. It. The premise.

[Joe Rogan]

Where are these Artemis people at now? Are they. Are they passing the moon yet? They already did. They passed it.

[Jim Norton]

What happened?

[Joe Rogan]

So they. When did they. Did they land yet? Are they back yet? And where are they? Should be probably back in the next day or two.

[Jim Norton]

Well, who's going where?

[Joe Rogan]

They went around the moon.

[Matt Serra]

They went all the way around the moon?

[Jim Norton]

All the way around?

[Joe Rogan]

No, no.

[Eddie Bravo]

They just went around and saw the dark side.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, they took photos of the dark side.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, on Friday. Splash, splash. On Friday.

[Eddie Bravo]

I was getting ready to say, what? They crashed.

[Joe Rogan]

So they land tomorrow. Wow. So they. So the. The dark side of the moon is only dark when the moon's not. It's not dark like the sun still hits it the same amount the sun hits the light side of the moon.

[Eddie Bravo]

Is that true?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. The way Though I used to think I'm a retard. I used to think that the reason why we only see one side of the moon is because the moon doesn't spin.

[Eddie Bravo]

That's what I thought.

[Joe Rogan]

No, no. The moon not only spins around us, but it rotates. But when we see it, the only time we see the moon during a full moon or a quarter moon or whatever it is is when the sun is hitting the side that's always facing us.

[Jim Norton]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

So when. When it goes the other way.

[Eddie Bravo]

Gotcha.

[Joe Rogan]

That there's a different side that's facing us, but we don't ever get to see it because it's dark.

[Jim Norton]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what it is.

[Jim Norton]

So we.

[Matt Serra]

But. So they took pictures of the other side.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly. Yeah. And there's aliens everywhere.

[Matt Serra]

I was about to say. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

What's on the other side?

[Matt Serra]

Civilization on the other side. What's on the other side?

[Jim Norton]

And in that. In that movie. He finds an alien, by the way. Oh, he does. This is not really a spoiler. It's a. And the trailers.

[Joe Rogan]

I had that guy Bob Lazar on again recently.

[Jim Norton]

Who's that?

[Joe Rogan]

You want to see a great documentary? It's fun. The first, I would say Jeremy Corbell's documentary, which is Area 51. Bob Lazar and Flying saucers. That what it's called. Bob Lazar, Area 51 and flying saucers. So this guy was a back engine. He was an engineer, and he was hired to work on these spacecrafts that he didn't know what the fuck they were. And they told him, like, try to figure out this propulsion system. They brought him into this hangar, and this is in, like, 1988. And it's a flying saucer. It looks exactly like that thing on the desk.

[Jim Norton]

Jesus.

[Joe Rogan]

And it has an American flag sticker on it. And so he's like, oh, it must be ours, like. And then he gets in it. He's like, what the is this? It's made for people that are 3ft tall. There's no controls, no buttons, nothing.

[Jim Norton]

Why are you looking at me? Why?

[Eddie Bravo]

You're the only guy to conf.

[Jim Norton]

Tall. You look right at me. Son of a.

[Joe Rogan]

But he's got a new one out called S4. I. I recommend it to anybody. It's a. They did, like, CGI and they d.

[Eddie Bravo]

It on Netflix or YouTube.

[Joe Rogan]

It's on Amazon.

[Eddie Bravo]

Amazon.

[Jim Norton]

Some.

[Joe Rogan]

Some other places.

[Eddie Bravo]

What's it called again?

[Joe Rogan]

S4.

[Eddie Bravo]

S4.

[Matt Serra]

I just saw. I was just watching a series with you on that Ancient Apocalypse.

[Joe Rogan]

Was I on that?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, you was in that with a.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, with Graham Hock.

[Jim Norton]

That's right.

[Joe Rogan]

That's right. Yeah. Grandma's my man.

[Jim Norton]

Do you know Rodrigo Gracie?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Good buddy of mine, My. My old roommate. He. He's a wacky guy. He's funny. Funny as. So, you know, we were just out to eat last night with Danaher. We were talking about him.

[Joe Rogan]

I love that guy.

[Jim Norton]

And he's like, oh, he's great. And he said, oh, I'm glad Rico's matured. I was talking about how to read. He's doing good. He just visited me, did my podcast, and he did a seminar at my place. So, you know, I was catching up with him. So he told me he was visiting Area 51 with his wife, and he goes, so, yeah, you know, I always wanted to go there. So me and Fernanda, we drove down there, and no, nothing was happening. So then I'm driving back. You got to drive back hours through, like, the dark desert, right? So he's driving back, and he goes, fernando fell asleep. So I had my laser pointer. So I'm just pointing out a sign, pointing at. At this. He goes, matt. And then I saw blue lights in the distance. He goes, I could. I want to make contact. He goes, well, he goes, she was sleeping. So I started taking my laser pen and pointing at it. He goes. And I didn't think nothing of it. And then all of a sudden, I'm driving, and I hear. And a yellow circle around my car. And I wake up. Fernanda, she's like, what did you do? And he's like, I just took my laser pen. It was a helicopter following him, like, just. And he goes. He goes. He was getting down to, like, almost my roof. I didn't know what to do. They had a yellow spot around my car. So I. She told me. I. We called the police. So we. They. You know, they go, look, there's a. There's a helicopter following us. And they go, is. Are you in a. They said, the car. Car, the everything. They go, the authorities are waiting for you at the rest stop. Up or whatever. So he goes to the rest stop, takes his laser pointer. He gets there, he throws it in the garbage. I don't know why. And then he comes out. They. They're like, look, they. They. They put him in cuffs, and he goes to his. His wife. He goes, go in there and get the laser pen. It's in the bathroom. He. She goes in the men's room through the garbage, finds it. So they're saying, all right, you were. You were shooting, interfering With a military helicopter or whatever it is. Like, in other words, it's a major.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Crime here that he could be facing. He goes mad. He goes, I was shitting myself. The two pilots come over. One of them takes off the helmet. Cauliflower is. He goes, fucking thank. He trained under my cousin. He goes.

[Eddie Bravo]

He goes.

[Jim Norton]

The guy's bowing. He was. My wife's yelling at me. So he got out of it. The guy trained under. He's a brown belt.

[Joe Rogan]

God, how lucky. Dude, that's so lucky.

[Jim Norton]

I know. Rodrigo, man, only you, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

That's so lucky. Yeah. They probably thought they were trying to like with planes, because kids do that. They shine laser beams at planes. It's like a real problem. It would get in their eyes while they're flying the planes.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The lasers go all the way up to a plane.

[Jim Norton]

I used to be with armigo on. On 27th Street. He's like, dad, watch this. We'd be at the window, guys walking the street. He's like, ah, look at him jump

[Matt Serra]

on the COVID You going to hell. What he doing?

[Jim Norton]

Still getting them in trouble.

[Joe Rogan]

That's so ridiculous. A lot of people would think it's a laser sight on a rifle. Exactly thousand.

[Jim Norton]

He's doing.

[Joe Rogan]

Take that down. Don't do that. Don't do that around here.

[Eddie Bravo]

He thought he was making contact.

[Jim Norton]

He's making contact. He's got a chopper.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. They keep talking about making contact. I'm tired of hearing. Hearing about it.

[Matt Serra]

Let's do it already. God damn it. Yeah, I want to see it. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's just Dick teasing us.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. I don't think.

[Joe Rogan]

But you're a sci Fi guy.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, man. Have you watched the Dune movies or no.

[Joe Rogan]

No. I know you want to give it a shot. I do. I don't have any time when I get home, too. Like if. If it's like late at night when I'm home and I'm by myself watching. I don't want to watch anything like that. I want to watch documentaries.

[Jim Norton]

I I was about to say, man, take a week off of a documentary on the dude.

[Joe Rogan]

We're not going to find out what happened next week. Getting close.

[Jim Norton]

Man, the Dune movies are so.

[Joe Rogan]

I heard they're amazing.

[Jim Norton]

Josh Brolin is great. And now they got the Dune Messiah was in it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. They got a third one coming out, right?

[Jim Norton]

Y third one coming out. And this guy can't miss this.

[Joe Rogan]

Everybody keeps telling me how awesome they are.

[Eddie Bravo]

They are good.

[Jim Norton]

They are good. They're very good.

[Matt Serra]

I try. Tried to watch.

[Jim Norton]

It was kind of slow. Yeah, you know what? I. You get that?

[Joe Rogan]

Dissecting opinions.

[Matt Serra]

I don't know.

[Jim Norton]

Hey, you know what else? Who else is coming out with a movie?

[Joe Rogan]

Who?

[Jim Norton]

Just like we planned. Remember you told me bring that up. He came out with a.

[Joe Rogan]

Flowers. Flowers.

[Matt Serra]

I did a show.

[Eddie Bravo]

Hey, wait, wait. That's why Dean picked up dinner last night.

[Joe Rogan]

I.

[Matt Serra]

No, no, I. I did that because of my new job with Paramount.

[Jim Norton]

I'll tell you right now, you almost gave me a heart attack when you reach for that bill.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Is this a movie that you put together?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Produced.

[Jim Norton]

It's.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's about a female in a. In an abusive relationship.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow, look at you, Mr. Sensitive.

[Jim Norton]

There it is. There it is.

[Joe Rogan]

Flower. No, the multi talented it.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

You know, nothing to do with cage fighting.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at that, Thomas. That's incredible, dude. Congratulations. That's awesome.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. I'm going to start shopping at the film festivals.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Next week, so.

[Joe Rogan]

That's awesome, dude. That's awesome.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I like when people spread their wings.

[Jim Norton]

You got to like, you know, life

[Matt Serra]

is short and you don't want to be in a box. You know, you want to be able to do all kind of different things

[Joe Rogan]

and you can do whatever the you want.

[Matt Serra]

You can do whatever the you want. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

So I try to do whatever the I want.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm telling you, that's how to live.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's how to live. There's too many people out there not doing what they want to do. That's a hell.

[Matt Serra]

It makes me sad actually.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a sad existence.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, and a lot of people are doing it. Cuz like you got to take care of your family and I get it and I respect it. Maybe you have a good time at work, that's great. But if there's a thing you want to do while you're still breathing.

[Jim Norton]

I know, do it.

[Joe Rogan]

Just do it. You should try at least try it. Get it out of your head.

[Jim Norton]

I feel so fortunate when I have my day to day. You know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Because I'm not like, bro, I don't want to do. He's got another job.

[Joe Rogan]

Every other week he does.

[Jim Norton]

He's asking how I'm doing. I'm like, dude, my school Talios Pizzeria, no pro mate, no bleach. And my pod, my podcast, I'm having fun with and UFC Unfiltered, dude, it's just such a perfect little thing for me. I don't want to do anything, anything else.

[Joe Rogan]

Beautiful.

[Jim Norton]

It's so much fun.

[Joe Rogan]

That's. There's a lot of power in saying no. Oh, you know, saying no to things I don't want to do anymore. Like just enjoy what you're doing. You don't have to keep piling on. But the thing is, once things start going good, you start saying, oh, I better not say no to nothing. No me that I should do that. I'll find the time.

[Jim Norton]

But once.

[Matt Serra]

But once you get to the point where you can say no, that's a

[Jim Norton]

great place to be.

[Joe Rogan]

The best place.

[Jim Norton]

Is your heart in it or not? Do you want to do that?

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly, exactly.

[Jim Norton]

Shoot, man. The day to day, your day to day life. That's what I love about Longo. Longo's. You know, it's funny, he's holding for my daughter now, which is so great. She had her first kickboxing match in one. I told you.

[Joe Rogan]

But, like, send us the pictures in the group chat.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, yeah. It's amazing, right?

[Joe Rogan]

It's such a proud moment.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, so proud. And it's so. It's just so cool, man. When I see him holding for, like, he doesn't have, like, you know, he just. That guy just.

[Joe Rogan]

He's the best.

[Jim Norton]

He's just doing the same thing, you and him.

[Joe Rogan]

If Paramount was smart, they would do a fucking. A whole series of you and him traveling to fights, working with people, hanging out and cornering each other. You guys in the corner are some. It's fucking. I'm like, keep the camera on, Sarah. It's the truth. We always talk about in the commentary, like, it's fucking awesome watching you guys in a corner. Good technical advice, but it's just fun. You guys are fun together.

[Jim Norton]

Just on an amateur card. We just got brought back together for one of my fighters, Adrian, this young Filipino guy, he's good. Kid nerd. He's a nurse. Always smiling.

[Joe Rogan]

They're all nurses.

[Jim Norton]

He went in.

[Joe Rogan]

My wife's a nurse, but he went

[Jim Norton]

in there and he's just like, I just have just. My one wish is to have you and Ray and my corn. He's such a nice kid. So we went in there, we cornered him. We didn't have to work the corner though the first round. He flatlined this guy.

[Eddie Bravo]

Nice.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, man.

[Joe Rogan]

So, yeah, man, you guys are great.

[Eddie Bravo]

You guys are great on your podcast together too. You got a good chemistry.

[Joe Rogan]

You got a great, crazy friendship. It's perfect. It's like, the banter's hilarious. The two of you guys, you complement each other perfectly. It would be a great show. I'm telling you.

[Jim Norton]

I better do something soon before the first episode is me and the guys taking Longo to a home. He's not getting any younger. Hey, guys, Field trip.

[Matt Serra]

Longo, what are we doing?

[Joe Rogan]

Don't let him talk to you like that. Right?

[Matt Serra]

I'm in your corner, right?

[Jim Norton]

Road trip to the home. Longo Marco's got a lot of life.

[Joe Rogan]

He's. Oh, my gosh.

[Jim Norton]

What do you think of Gilbert Burns versus Mike Malat is. Gilbert's lost four in a row, but he's did it to all killers.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

You know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

Lot's a tough guy getting better.

[Jim Norton]

Only lost once to Neil Magni in a fight that he was doing great in. But then he got Neil Magnied because

[Joe Rogan]

that guy's never gets tired.

[Matt Serra]

Never gets tired, Never gets tired.

[Joe Rogan]

Discipline. Always in shape.

[Jim Norton]

He rided the ship since then.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep.

[Jim Norton]

And that kid's like the next Captain Canada. He's doing people, they make an unfair comparison, like, are you the next George? That type of thing. But he's his own fighter, Right. He's got a great skill set, good head on his shoulders. Family of studs. His brother's like an ice hockey.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a good test for him, Gilbert at this stage of his career, you know.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. See if he still got it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

You know, he's the first guy to make comms out look human.

[Joe Rogan]

But, you know, when Morales did that to Gilbert, I was like, Jesus Christ. Morales is terrifying. He looks so big. It doesn't know any sense. I know he doesn't make any sense.

[Matt Serra]

So when we. I was with Brady when Brady got beat by him and at the way. And he looked okay, right. Like, you know, a guy, he's 170 pounds.

[Jim Norton]

Then the next day we.

[Matt Serra]

He steps into the cage and we're just looking like, oh, my God, he was huge.

[Jim Norton]

Massive.

[Joe Rogan]

Massive.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And when you're that much taller that the. And you're. You're the better striker. God, that's such. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

It's a huge advantage. Like you just because you can stand

[Matt Serra]

six feet away from a guy and

[Joe Rogan]

just be like, Ogari last week.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, my God.

[Eddie Bravo]

Like, I know Mansoor. What? He trained it with us at ground control as a kid and before he went off to college and all. And I mean, the only thing I can say first off, obviously he was not ready for him yet, but he definitely showed a lot of heart because he stayed in there and took a.

[Joe Rogan]

I was just thinking the exact same.

[Eddie Bravo]

I hope he comes back. I mean, that was. I. I personally knowing him, I felt Horrible watching that.

[Joe Rogan]

I was like, he wasn't ready for that yet. Yeah, there's. When you get an elite striker, you got to realize that guy beat Pereira in glory.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Pereira knocked him out twice after that. But in the first fight, he beat

[Eddie Bravo]

Pereira, I think people looked, like, ordinary in his first couple. Like, he came out with a new version, and it was impressive.

[Joe Rogan]

He's good. And he's training with Pereira now. Yeah. You know, that's a great camp. And Glover has so much knowledge. Yeah, he's. That guy was in the dark for six years where he couldn't get into America. And during those six years, he was the boogeyman. Everybody talked about Glover. They're like, there's a guy that's in Brazil, he can't get to America, but if that guy gets here, he's. Everybody up. And that was Glover. Glover was a. He was always training with Truck. Trucking and.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Hello.

[Matt Serra]

And they're in Danbury, Connecticut, so another thing.

[Jim Norton]

And that's. They're not.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. They're not in Vegas, so, you know,

[Joe Rogan]

ain't to do out there.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. All they doing is training.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Dude.

[Joe Rogan]

Just nothing but Lyme disease in the woods.

[Jim Norton]

Right.

[Eddie Bravo]

And federal prison in Danbury.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah. Connecticut is. It's a good place to just not get distracted. Just get to work.

[Matt Serra]

Danbury's where Rodrigo Gracie broke my elbow.

[Jim Norton]

I was there.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, you was there?

[Jim Norton]

I was there.

[Matt Serra]

I didn't know you was there.

[Eddie Bravo]

Niagara, you know.

[Matt Serra]

I was there.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Damn. Did you have to get pins in it?

[Matt Serra]

No, they.

[Jim Norton]

They.

[Matt Serra]

I mean, they set, reset it, cast it. He. No pins.

[Jim Norton]

He told that story at the seminar.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, he did?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Cuz I. I had to bring that up, man.

[Jim Norton]

I was like, 25 years ago, he said. Because we weren't close at the time, and I was yelling, but I. I regret that, too.

[Matt Serra]

What did you.

[Jim Norton]

You yell? Cuz he let it go. He let it go and you didn't tap? Well, yeah. And. Right. Which was great. And then I was yelling at him for. For letting it go, which I was just psychotic. Cuz. You're my friend now. But at the time, it was just.

[Matt Serra]

Well, to be fair, like, if I knew it was going to break, I would have tapped. Yeah, Yeah. I didn't know it was going to break.

[Eddie Bravo]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jim Norton]

That's what the story told. Then he. Then he said that Henzel yelled at

[Matt Serra]

him too, after that for letting it go.

[Jim Norton]

Why you. Why you getting soft? Why you let that go, bro?

[Joe Rogan]

I got to get Henzo in here. Oh, he's the best.

[Eddie Bravo]

He's definitely.

[Joe Rogan]

We were going to do it at one time, but he was only in Austin for a short amount of time and I didn't have anything open. I couldn't get him in. I'd love to sit down with that guy. What a legend.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

Stories for days.

[Joe Rogan]

And he's one of those guys, like, you hear about a guy getting a black belt and you're like, okay. And you go, you got a black belt from Henzo. You're like, oh, okay, definitely. It's like Henzo Hickson, Jean Jacques Machado. There's a few of those. Those guys that are like, okay, that's a real black belt. Like, I mean, Henzo's New York place is like one of the most legendary places in the history of Jiu jitsu. If you had to read a history of jiu jitsu. The Henzo Academy in New York City.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Holy, man.

[Jim Norton]

When he came over, he came over in 96. We had like an in school tournament, you know what I mean? It was great because Craig Kukuk already had two schools for him. He had a Jersey school and where's that guy? No clue, man.

[Eddie Bravo]

No one disappeared.

[Jim Norton]

My first instructor, but he was not an easy guy to. He'd never let you get too close.

[Joe Rogan]

I bought all the tapes. I learned a mountain skate for those tapes at work one day.

[Jim Norton]

I was like, oh, he was a very good teacher. I was with him before.

[Joe Rogan]

He was early Brazilian jiu jitsu black belt. He's a black belt like early 90s, right? Like the Steve Maxwell era. He was one of the earliest ones.

[Jim Norton]

I found out about him through the Gracie newsletter that I was applied to at like 17. I used to get that because I would buy the tapes. You get a newsletter and one newsletter. It was like every few months it was announcing the first American black belt. And then like two newsletters later, they disowned them. They had a business. But then I found out through Black Belt Magazine that he was teaching in the Village one day a week in the city. I go, all right. They might have disowned them, but they couldn't take away his skill set. There was no place to learn on the east coast except for Maxwell and Phil.

[Joe Rogan]

Philly.

[Jim Norton]

So that's how I found Ku K. And then he partnered up with Henzo. And then I went with Henzo when they broke up, obviously.

[Joe Rogan]

Why did they break up?

[Jim Norton]

I remember Henzo took me out to eat one time and he's like, look. And I always got. I got along With Henzo, so much better. He right off the bat, like, Henzo was just so warm and great. And I invite me over his house, and he was just such a. And Craig was always kind of a wall. He was a big German guy, just. But I remember one time he told me, like, look, something with the business where he wasn't feel like he was being treated fairly. I'll just leave it like that. And then he goes, look, he goes, if no one likes Craig, he goes, if you go with him and. And. And me, he goes, people will go with him because of you, because they like you. And. But I want you to come with me. I go, look, I go ahead. And at first I'm like, is it any. You know, I was a young kid, I didn't know. I goes, any way you guys could make up? He goes, goes, man, if it was Brazil, he'd be already dead. Okay, Enzo. All right, I got you. So much for that.

[Eddie Bravo]

I went.

[Jim Norton]

I went with Enzo, and Craig kind of left town.

[Matt Serra]

So, Matt, where are you in the pecking order in terms of American black belts from Henzo?

[Jim Norton]

He's the first American of the Hens.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, that's amazing. That's crazy. That's amazing. That's amazing.

[Jim Norton]

That's something that could. That's my biggest achievement right there, you know, he took me under his wing, Hanzo again. I was a purple belt. He got me out of a security guard booth, taking me to Japan to corner him versus Rings, because he wanted to help me, to see what it's like backstage. Dude, I was, no, I didn't do anything yet. I'm like, oh, really? Japan? So he would just believe stuff like that. Yeah, he did. He put a lot into me, so I can't thank him enough.

[Joe Rogan]

Dude, that's that camp. You just think about how many elite black belts Henzo produced, and then think of the John Donahue branch of it. Yeah, no, yeah, right.

[Matt Serra]

Like, generationally, like, it just. It dominates all the generations of jiu jitsu.

[Joe Rogan]

Especially now, if you think of what Donna has done.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, I mean, his prize guy, Gordon Ryan, Crazy of all time, for sure.

[Matt Serra]

But I mean, even on the other side, who they don't get along with so much now, like. Like Nikki, Rod and them are still from Donna.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And all. Elite of the elite. Yeah. Crazy lineage.

[Jim Norton]

That's a guy that just put 100% of himself into it. And he's got a genius mind. I remember he didn't even own a television until my buddy Chad LeBrun who was moving back to Virginia, gave him something. He gave him one so he could watch. It had, I think, a VHS and a DVD thing where he wanted to just study wrestling tapes and Japanese tapes, and he just use it. Just a study.

[Joe Rogan]

I have a question for you. Whatever happened to Ed?

[Jim Norton]

Eddie?

[Joe Rogan]

Wolverine.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, so I asked him about that last night.

[Joe Rogan]

What's his last name again?

[Jim Norton]

Cummins. What did he say? He got into some kind of business. Now he's not really training as much. God, that guy was good. Yeah, he was good.

[Joe Rogan]

Early in the day, like, as the leg lock revolution was unfolding.

[Eddie Bravo]

That was John's first, you know, savage. He put out, I remember, and, you

[Joe Rogan]

know, just super, super technical, you know.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Trained a lot of those guys. And legends lock technique, too. You know, they're all shared techniques.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, yeah. I'm. I. I think it's just amazing that John drives. He never drove in New York. How'd you get here? He goes, oh, I drove.

[Joe Rogan]

I go, you with a rash guard on and a fanny pack and Adidas sweatpants.

[Eddie Bravo]

He was dressed up last night. He had a all blacks polo shirt. I go, yeah, New Zealand.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, Yeah, a New Zealand all black polo shirt.

[Eddie Bravo]

Matt asked him. He goes, what?

[Joe Rogan]

What?

[Eddie Bravo]

No rash guard. And he goes, oh, got dressed up for you tonight.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you probably went back home to his family. And his mother was like, honey, stop wearing the red everywhere.

[Eddie Bravo]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

It's crazy that he's teaching at Kingsway now. Gordon School. Now that Gordon's done competing, he's got that school going on.

[Joe Rogan]

He's like a character in a movie, like he's not supposed to exist.

[Jim Norton]

Danner.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. He's a philosophy major at Columbia who is. Falls in love with Jiu Jitsu because he's a bouncer who bounced that scores. Yeah, right. He's just, like, jacked. Like powerlifter bouncer who played rugby.

[Eddie Bravo]

He was like, 220.

[Joe Rogan]

He was yoked up, jacked. And so then he learns Jiu jitsu, becomes obsessed with Jiu Jitsu, but his body's all up from rugby. He's got a up knee. Then his hip gets up, and so he can't really compete. But he is such a jiu Jitsu fanatic that he trains the best guys of all time. It's kind of nuts.

[Jim Norton]

It is nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

And that's all he cares about. Like, he doesn't give a.

[Matt Serra]

About anything.

[Joe Rogan]

He doesn't give a. About social media. Look at John.

[Eddie Bravo]

That's one of my favorite. Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

Full head of hair, jacked looking Ready for a. A gay date, John definitely. Almost looks like he had a skirt on.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, it does.

[Joe Rogan]

He was a really.

[Eddie Bravo]

John definitely would rock a headgear, too, when he wrestled, for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

He was a bad dude. Bad. I know a lot of people who rolled with him that were shocked. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, yeah, dude.

[Eddie Bravo]

John would do privates and wrestle everybody all day, all day long.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. He lived it, you know, he still lives it. That's all he does.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's just so, you know, fortunate that you get a guy who's that smart, like, in everything. Like, he's really well read history, all kinds of. Like, he's a very interesting guy to talk to, but he becomes obsessed only with Jiu Jitsu. He didn't have a family.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Some wife and kids got to take care of.

[Jim Norton]

I love that.

[Joe Rogan]

Joking people.

[Jim Norton]

When you have this out here, it's like a routine now. Now every time we come out, I. I get dinner with him. So I don't see him too often, so.

[Eddie Bravo]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

It's great.

[Eddie Bravo]

It's like a little reunion.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

Each time we come to town, I'd be with him.

[Jim Norton]

How many days a week we just train and go to Burritoville.

[Joe Rogan]

They were in Puerto Rico during the pandemic, and they were having a hard time there, and I was like, come to Texas, baby. Come on down.

[Jim Norton]

I'll tell you. You're the Pied Piper. They. They all ended up here.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's a fun place, man. It really is. It's the.

[Matt Serra]

Well, I heard the whole Puerto Rico thing was good for a while, though. I was talking to Nikki R. About that. He said it was great. He was like, just like being in Puerto Rico with your friends and, like, a frat house training Jiu Jitsu all day. It was, like, amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, especially because they were shut down.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And in Puerto Rico, you have outside, like, you could get light into the room, so it kills the staff better.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. How many guys got staff from that? The basement Jiu Jitsu.

[Matt Serra]

Right, Right.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot of people got staff. There's a lot of funk that gets on those mats that if you're not

[Jim Norton]

careful, his belly with all the antibiotics.

[Joe Rogan]

Mm. That's from staff, dude.

[Jim Norton]

My fucking belly. Joe. On the way here, on the way to the jfk, because I always got my issues, but I usually give myself, like, if I'm going somewhere, like, on a car trip or anywhere, like, I clear out for at least an hour and a half to two hours. Like, I'll give myself my espresso in the morning. Two seltzes. And then I just let it go to work. And I'm pushing on my belly because I. Things get stuck in there. So I thought I gave myself enough time and I was going to JFK from my house. 30 minutes. It was 9 in the morning. We. 10 minutes into that car trip. I go, I'm not making it. I go, I'm. I go, I'm not. I go, I'm not. And the guy was. My driver, was such a good guy. What a nice guy. I gave him a fifth. I give him a tip. Good tip. So we're driving. I go. I go, all right, let me just keep watching videos on my phone. I mean, I'm like. Let me just try to let my mind go so much.

[Matt Serra]

Somewhere.

[Jim Norton]

Clock. The clock wasn't moving. I look back, I go, that's another minute. I go, I'm not. I. There's no way I'm making this. So I'm on the Bell Parkway. It's not like you could just pull over, so. I go, you know, I go. I go, buddy. I go. I go, I'm sorry, man. I go, I'm not. I'm not gonna make it. I go, we gotta. We gotta pull over. He goes, oh. He goes, oh, the. The bell. There's no way really to pull over. You want me to take an egg?

[Matt Serra]

I go.

[Jim Norton]

Go off an exit.

[Matt Serra]

I go, you can.

[Jim Norton]

I go, you're gonna have to do something. I go, I'm not making it. I go, can I get you. I go, can I be a 711 cup? I go. He goes, oh, do.

[Matt Serra]

I go now?

[Jim Norton]

I'm gonna. In your cup. I go, no. I go, I'm sorry. I go, I'm sorry, sir. I go, but I. I go. I go. I knew it was. It's just. It's gonna happen, and it's my biggest fear, and it's coming to life. So he. This guy. No, it's okay. No, it's. He got over. We almost hit a car. I'm on the side. There's. There's not even pushes or anything. There was some, like. Some like.

[Eddie Bravo]

Nobody could see you behind.

[Jim Norton]

Everybody saw me, you know, this guy.

[Joe Rogan]

Head.

[Jim Norton]

I got out. As I'm taking my pants down, I'm going, thank goodness I made it. And I get back in. I go, buddy, you in the cup. No, I didn't. I have. I just piss.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh.

[Jim Norton]

But it's like. Well, I mean, I felt my. My per. Bubbles, but nothing, you know, when you feel like, you know, does it.

[Joe Rogan]

But it's like that with you when you have to pee too. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace Space. People always ask me what my website is powered by, and the answer is Squarespace. Their design tools are unmatched. You don't have to be a tech wizard to build something that actually looks professional and fits your brand. They've even got an AI powered website builder that lets you put together a fully custom site in just a few steps. Try it for yourself. Head to squarespace.com rogan for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, just use the offer code rogan to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. It's tax season and by now I know we're all a bit tired of numbers, but here's an important one for you to hear. $16 billion. That's how much money in refunds the IRS flagged for possible identity fraud. Here's another one. In four honest, hard working, taxpaying Americans have been a victim of identity theft. But it's not all grim news. LifeLock monitors millions of data points per seconds for your personal information and alerts you to threats you could easily miss on your own. If your identity is stolen, LifeLock's US based restoration specialists will fix it, backed by another group good number the million Dooll protection package. In fact, restoration is guaranteed or your money back. Don't face identity theft and financial losses alone. There's strength in numbers with Lifelock Identity theft Protection. For tax season and beyond. Visit lifelock.com jre and save up to 40% your first year. That's 40% [e-mail] jre terms apply.

[Jim Norton]

I. Sometimes I have to, I have to do both. Like, I'm like, I have to pee. But I know to really get it all out, I have to push it. Hey everybody. How's that?

[Joe Rogan]

So with P though, like, you can't just hold P, man.

[Jim Norton]

I can, but not to this.

[Joe Rogan]

Not like how you used to be able to.

[Jim Norton]

No. Well, it's not like it's one of those things where I have to clear out in the morning and I thought I totally cleared out, but sometimes I'm like, all right, I'm good. I pushed out totally. And then it kind of just gets something else in the chamber or something. I'm like, oh no, there's still something left. So we're driving. I'm like, when I, when I get the feeling, it's, it's such a horrible feeling because you're. It's not about willpower. It's not about thinking of something like, dude, it's going to happen. This is the day that I just piss myself. It's going to. But thank dude. I gave a custom tech $78 for the road, for the trip. I gave him a 50 tip. I go, dude, thank you, bro. You're a hero. This guy saved my ass. Someone else, like, they'd be like, hey, dude, off with like or, or don't do this in my car, dude. I'm like, it's happening. I go, give me your up. He's like, oh, do you have to pee? I got one, obviously. But I. Dude, he made it. But I couldn't. Dude, I. A 30 minute drive there, I couldn't make it.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Jim Norton]

It's scary, but as you get older,

[Matt Serra]

it's hard to hold it, man.

[Jim Norton]

But no, I think it's my ulcerative colitis has to do with that.

[Joe Rogan]

But because that sounds crazy that dude comes on that quick.

[Jim Norton]

It's. It was. I. I've had it before. But like, I don't know if I told you, I maybe said it the last time here. We were going to an aquarium out east with my family. And it was one of those things just like this. And I get out of the car and then we're looking and we. I'm like. Then I see there's like a line out the door. I go, I'm not making this. There's no way I'm making this. So I go, honey. She goes, okay, go, go. So I fucking. There's like a post office with those. Those bushes that come straight up. Like they're all tight together. I fucking smoosh myself through. The second I take my dick out, bees come around my head. I go, dude, I'm gonna get stung. Cuz I'm not going out with my dick. And I didn't get stung, but I definitely had some on the front of my pants. What are you gonna do?

[Eddie Bravo]

Sometimes I'm a very clean person related to that.

[Joe Rogan]

Imagine being a woman in that situation, right?

[Jim Norton]

There's no hiding it. Oh, but yeah, man. These are the things you got to deal with when you get older. A little bit. I am getting my stem cells. That's hopefully.

[Joe Rogan]

What is the cause of alternative colitis? What do they say causes it?

[Jim Norton]

I don't know. I mean, I think some of it's my history. I know one of my brothers had Crohn's, which is even worse. Crohn's disease to level up. Yeah, man, like So I know my grandfather, when he was getting older though, he had some.

[Joe Rogan]

Have you ever like, sword off pasta? Well, just like taking like months off. I try to go carnivore.

[Jim Norton]

I did go gluten free for a while, you know, but you know, they even espresso. I go, come on, man. I got.

[Joe Rogan]

Listen, I know I'm with you. Every time I go to New York, I have to eat Italian food. Like I'm looking forward to made the Jersey shows so I can get some New Jersey Italian food.

[Jim Norton]

I gotta take it. I gotta take you to Talios, bro. You'll love this piece. Let's go. You will. You loved it. Oh, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I'm trying to come up next week.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure. I love it. I'm sure. I love pizza.

[Jim Norton]

No, no, just. They're. No bleach, no probate. Don't give me stuff. But it's so I. Because I could eat it. I could eat three slices on the way to my school and I'm not up. I could train and it's. If I did that with a regular slice of pizza. You do it. I want to take a nap.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

You know, so it's even. My wife now orders the. The 00 flower.

[Joe Rogan]

The.

[Matt Serra]

Makes the bread.

[Jim Norton]

She makes the pizza. She makes fresh bread. I feel like at a Game of Thrones, I'm dipping it in my soup.

[Joe Rogan]

That place, the Vegas place. Yeah. Gaetano's. Yeah. All Italian flour, all handmade pasta.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Tonight we want to go to a place. Let's go. I want to do that. Get to my hotel.

[Joe Rogan]

If you did that, if it would

[Jim Norton]

have an effect, you know who cured his ulcerative colitis is George St. Pierre.

[Joe Rogan]

How did he.

[Jim Norton]

He said it's one of the reasons why he was stuck stopping fighting. Fasting. Really?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Interesting.

[Matt Serra]

Fasting did that.

[Eddie Bravo]

That's what he said. I mean, but he does some hardcore like three long.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he does like at least three, right? Three days.

[Jim Norton]

N. I can't do that.

[Joe Rogan]

I do 24 hours sometimes. Yeah, but that's not that hard, you know?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, I mean, you just. You stay busy enough.

[Eddie Bravo]

I think if you're busy, definitely you could.

[Joe Rogan]

You can just eat a big dinner. Donate to the next dinner. What is that?

[Jim Norton]

Cherry cola. Dude, you know, you got.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, you got him on things.

[Jim Norton]

It all started from here.

[Joe Rogan]

But thank you very.

[Jim Norton]

It is tasty.

[Joe Rogan]

Ooh, that's delicious.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, that's good. I love it.

[Joe Rogan]

They're illegal in California.

[Jim Norton]

They are.

[Eddie Bravo]

Isn't everything.

[Joe Rogan]

You can't. You can't have flavored nicotine in California.

[Jim Norton]

What the. What the hell is that about?

[Matt Serra]

Is that like.

[Joe Rogan]

Because they just want to be able to tell you what to do. Yeah, that's. How. Is a symptom of the. You could go. Go buy whiskey. You go to CVS and buy a jug of whiskey and drink yourself to death.

[Jim Norton]

But you can't.

[Joe Rogan]

But you cannot buy flavored zins.

[Matt Serra]

That makes zero sense.

[Joe Rogan]

Buy flavored vapes. Because they don't want to encourage kids. Because you know how kids are. They just want to. They want flavored Zen. Talking about it all the time. So stupid.

[Jim Norton]

It's so stupid.

[Joe Rogan]

California's just so dumb. They just want to tell you what to do. It's a bunch of nannies.

[Eddie Bravo]

And if it's legal, they're going to tax it and regulate it.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly. And everybody's moving out. People just flee in that state like it's on fire.

[Jim Norton]

Everybody's coming here.

[Joe Rogan]

They're coming here. They're going to Tennessee. They're going to Florida. They're going anywhere. They could just be left the alone to be.

[Jim Norton]

New York's not much better.

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Eddie Bravo]

Well, hell, everybody's running out of there, too.

[Jim Norton]

Not me. I'm there.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm there for life.

[Jim Norton]

I'm not going nowhere.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Check just. It just sucks when the government gets goofy and you're like, what are you talking about? Now that Kathy H. Lady is saying, get. Get those people to come back to New York.

[Eddie Bravo]

Remember, before all of you go move to Florida.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's what she said. Which is a crazy thing to say. That's a crazy thing to say. It's so delusional. But that guy. That lady's nuts. Anyway. Yeah. She said the vaccines were a gift from God. Like she said, she talks crazy. People are so tired of Cuomo. They're like, who else? Okay, fine, you run it. You know what I mean? It's like, how did that lady become like, the. Your best choice? That seems nuts.

[Jim Norton]

That makes me concerned that Stephen Corbet is doing the next Lord of the Rings. Who's like. He's writing the movie or something to him and his son.

[Eddie Bravo]

Really?

[Jim Norton]

I know. He's a little bit of a.

[Joe Rogan]

Wait a minute. Colbert.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Colbert Report.

[Jim Norton]

Peter Jackson was making an announcement. I know all the nerd news. Peter Jackson was making an announcement about a new Lord of the Rings movies coming out with. And I'm partnering up with. Well, let me. Let me show you. And all sudden, they go to Stephen Corbett reading a Lord of the Rings book. Oh, hey, you know, they planned it and he's like, yeah, I took it from this part of the thing.

[Eddie Bravo]

So you're gonna have any damage.

[Jim Norton]

Poor Tolkien. They shit all over his thing. That Rings of Power is just a mess. Piece of.

[Joe Rogan]

What is that?

[Jim Norton]

Orcs.

[Joe Rogan]

Rings of Power.

[Jim Norton]

Orcs.

[Matt Serra]

They had feelings and they were like.

[Jim Norton]

They were like kids. They were like little kids.

[Matt Serra]

It was weird.

[Jim Norton]

What is this Rings of Power? The Amazon series of the Lord of the Rings is the biggest pile of. Next to the acolyte. It's everybody on our childhood or on they. On the major franchises that had some really good lore, like everything from Star Trek.

[Joe Rogan]

What the.

[Eddie Bravo]

They did everything Disney touched. They up Marvel everything, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

How do you up Orcs? They made them terrifying.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, no, they were terrifying.

[Eddie Bravo]

How do you up the Hulk? Explain it.

[Jim Norton]

They make him smart. They made him a Thanos kicked his ass and he never got his balls back if the Thanos kicked his ass. Right? You know?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. That's an old Orc bro, yo.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Now watch a movie with the helmet get on. Click on that.

[Eddie Bravo]

Dude, they have feelings.

[Joe Rogan]

Jesus

[Jim Norton]

against. Oh, no. It's brutal.

[Joe Rogan]

That guy's got feelings. For real?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

He had feelings and.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They're not supposed to have feelings.

[Jim Norton]

There's no more.

[Joe Rogan]

Supposed to be like, demons.

[Jim Norton]

Nope. Nah.

[Joe Rogan]

Now they're just that one in the lower right hand corner with the helmet on. Look at that. Oh, yeah.

[Jim Norton]

You don't know his backstory. He might be a good guy guy.

[Joe Rogan]

They were like, father, I want him to be a good guy. I want orcs. Old school, like from the movies.

[Jim Norton]

That's why that Night of the Seven Kings was refreshing, because it had no in it. Hey, look. There you go.

[Matt Serra]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, give the guy a chance. Who knows? Maybe it's awesome. So he was. Had a cameo in Desolation of Smog.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, no. They did an animated series that. The War of Rohan, which was a piece of. They made a girl boss in there that had. She had all the cool dudes get killed and the girl's killing everybody and she knows everything. And she. And they took it from like one. Like, she was in like one paragraph and in the thing. And they just gave her this big backstory of being a badass.

[Eddie Bravo]

It's like the Fantastic Four with the female Silver Surfer. She appeared in maybe one or two comics. Is not a main character. No shape, no how. But boom.

[Joe Rogan]

Is the real Silver Surfer in it too?

[Eddie Bravo]

No, no.

[Jim Norton]

They got.

[Joe Rogan]

They seem silly.

[Eddie Bravo]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Why did. So there was a female Silver Surfer for a while?

[Eddie Bravo]

No, like, like, very sporadically. Like, maybe Appeared in one or two. It was actually his. Now you're getting on my nerd side.

[Jim Norton]

Yep.

[Eddie Bravo]

It was his wife before he was the Silver Surfer. Like Shalabal. His. It was his chick.

[Jim Norton]

And the Russo brothers. They are.

[Matt Serra]

They are.

[Joe Rogan]

They.

[Jim Norton]

They've been hitting it out of the park with every Marvel movie.

[Matt Serra]

They did.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

So they're doing Doomsday, which is going to be coming, which is basically going to be. They're putting out Endgame again in theater. In the theaters. And it's gonna be like directly. Like it's gonna take place directly.

[Eddie Bravo]

Awesome. Good, good. Well, I heard ruined King Thor's coming.

[Jim Norton]

They did.

[Eddie Bravo]

I'm ready for that. They did Winter Soldier like the highest level of Thor.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, that's cool. Let's keep going.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh my God, you're such a nerd.

[Matt Serra]

Is great.

[Joe Rogan]

Store is such a crazy thing for a grown ass man. Big ass, grown ass man level of Thor.

[Jim Norton]

That stuff's my wwe. I love that. I grew up on the comic.

[Eddie Bravo]

That's me.

[Joe Rogan]

I love.

[Jim Norton]

They ruined those movies, man. It's Thor. Ragnock was fun, dude. Love and thunder.

[Eddie Bravo]

Horrible.

[Jim Norton]

Oh his. My. My friend the rock monster and his is life made Bob.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. What the. Why though?

[Jim Norton]

What does that do? You know what?

[Joe Rogan]

You got to give credit to the DC movies then because they never ruined Batman. Right? You know the. The most recent Batmans at least the Christian Bale Batman and then the new

[Matt Serra]

one that was still pretty dark and like dark.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, just like, like yeah. It was like there's no in them. There's no. It wasn't it.

[Jim Norton]

They didn't.

[Eddie Bravo]

They murdered that Thor. They killed him and Gore, like Christian Bale played Gore in that movie in the comics. That is the best Thor story. Gore's like first off, he didn't look like he did on t. On the movie, but he's killing every. Killing all the other gods. Like I mean Thor, his dad had to get a whole crew to come and fight this guy and none of that really was showed in. In the movie at all.

[Jim Norton]

It was horrible. Love and thunder.

[Joe Rogan]

It was.

[Matt Serra]

I didn't know you was a nerd.

[Eddie Bravo]

Oh, for comics.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, I didn't know.

[Joe Rogan]

Why didn't they do it like the. Oh wow, look at him there.

[Eddie Bravo]

See if you can look in the comics like the comic version of Gore. Cuz it's not even close.

[Joe Rogan]

So this is already out turned into.

[Jim Norton]

That was loving.

[Joe Rogan]

Damn. Look out. Look at his. Click on that with your cursor's on. What the man.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, they wrecked. He was a perfect guy to play it. But they just ruined the character.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

You can't blame Christian Bale.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, they should have done it just by the comic books. You shouldn't be able to rewrite history tree like that and it up see if it his.

[Eddie Bravo]

It's Gore the God Butcher.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

That's ruined King Thor just in case you were wondering.

[Joe Rogan]

Jesus Christ. Are there how many thorns the same guy?

[Eddie Bravo]

It's just levels.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh explain that.

[Jim Norton]

Oh whoa. That's from the movie.

[Joe Rogan]

Damn. He looks good in the movie. That's pretty dope. It's probably also just a rendering because I don't know that they've shown stuff like this. When does the movie come out? Later this year.

[Jim Norton]

Doomsday comes out this year year. And so does Dune Messiah. It's a good year to be a nerd.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Well the nerd movie sell the best if you think about it. Comic book 100% Harry Potter. Yeah. So the Harry Potter show that they're doing on hbo. I've read find out if this is true. Put this into perplexity. Our wonderful AI sponsor if they made it cost them a hundred million dollars each episode.

[Jim Norton]

What the new one that's coming out.

[Joe Rogan]

This new one. Apparently it's so highly produced. It's like they. They. They've risked a billion dollars.

[Matt Serra]

Oh my God.

[Joe Rogan]

Series. It's supposed to be insane Harry Potter but it's Harry Potter. And I feel like you can't miss with Harry Potter except with trans people.

[Jim Norton]

There's. There's a lot of controversy with the casting because they did a. A race swap with Snape. Snape. He's like a guy that's $100 million. That's going to be a rough one man. Because his backstories not good.

[Joe Rogan]

It hasn't been confirmed yet. Several recent reports claim the budget is around 100 million per episode.

[Eddie Bravo]

Jesus.

[Joe Rogan]

7 plant season 8 episodes per season. 56 episodes total. That per episode figure implies an estimated total production cost of about $5.6 billion.

[Jim Norton]

It looks like it's done well. I saw the how are you?

[Joe Rogan]

You have to. If you're going to do a Harry Potter you got to do it to the maximum. There's already.

[Matt Serra]

I got to get into Harry Potter because there's not a lot of black characters characters in it. But there is one.

[Joe Rogan]

There's one now.

[Matt Serra]

Before that. Before that. The one character. Guess what his name is.

[Jim Norton]

I'm not guessing anything.

[Matt Serra]

Dean Thomas.

[Joe Rogan]

Shut the.

[Matt Serra]

I swear to God. I swear to God. I want my royalties for this.

[Jim Norton]

I want my royal.

[Matt Serra]

How Is it?

[Eddie Bravo]

You had another goddamn job.

[Matt Serra]

It's not the real way, but the.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, there it is.

[Matt Serra]

There it is.

[Joe Rogan]

Dean Thomas.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yep. Not many blacks out of here.

[Matt Serra]

The one is Dean Thomas.

[Joe Rogan]

So why is it controversial? Because they race swap.

[Jim Norton]

Because his backstory was, I think he was in love with Harry's mom and then they fucking, I think they all beat him up and stuff. It's just not a good look if it's, you know what I mean?

[Eddie Bravo]

Because he plays black Snape.

[Joe Rogan]

So you're implying that they beat him up because he's black?

[Jim Norton]

Well, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying it's not, I'm saying to make him like a, like a character that's, I don't know. Why does he look like me? It could be interesting.

[Joe Rogan]

It's kind of if they just follow the books, it's going to be amazing.

[Jim Norton]

I, I, I, you know, I, I missed the, I was a little bit older than my kids. Love the Harry Potter. You know, people got adults read the books and shit.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it's the most successful books of all time.

[Jim Norton]

Is it?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I think so. I think it's like right up there with the Bible.

[Jim Norton]

Damn, I feel bad for that lady.

[Joe Rogan]

Find that out, put that into production.

[Jim Norton]

She got, she got crucified for.

[Joe Rogan]

Just compare the sales of Harry Potter.

[Eddie Bravo]

She stuck their guns, though.

[Joe Rogan]

She got crucified for being logical and reasonable and telling the truth and trying to protect women and all these people's, these actors are still saying she said problematic things. I want to hold them down. Say, tell me what she said. That's problematic.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, that was a bit unfair to her.

[Joe Rogan]

There was an article written about the, this one actor that did it where that said he is more concerned with being on the right side of Hollywood than the right side of history. And that's accurate.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because these people all don't want to offend these dorks in Hollywood that are out of their minds. Enormously, commercially, commercially. What does that mean? Enormously commercially successful. But the Bible has sold far more copies. Overall, Harry Potter series has sold over 500 million copies. Estimated for the Bible is around 5 to 6 billion copies. How many copies of the Quran have been printed for. I mean, there's also multiple versions of the Bible and there's seven books of Harry Potter, so. Yeah, there's not seven, you know. Right, right, right, right. You could break it down. So there's 45 books in the Bible and those are all sold, you know. Yeah. But most people buy it as the Bible. I Know, but there's also the King James Bible. There's Bible and there's the Old Testament and. Yeah. So despite fewer copies, Harry Potter book sales are estimated to have generated about $7.7 billion in revenue. Not a Harry Potter in every hotel room country either. That's true. That's a good point. That's a good point. Yeah. They keep that Bible in that hotel room just in case.

[Eddie Bravo]

Right?

[Joe Rogan]

That's a weird thing, right?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Why do.

[Matt Serra]

Why do they do that?

[Joe Rogan]

Why? Someone donated it. Like there was a. There was a Bill Hicks joke he did about it back in the day. I forget there was a name on the Bible. Like it was a D Bible. Like someone like one family donated bibles to like every hotel room. The Gideon Bible, I think that's it

[Eddie Bravo]

is that it might be. I mean one of the names.

[Joe Rogan]

Gideon family. I think that was the joke. That was part of the. Who the are the Gideons.

[Jim Norton]

I was. I was so depressed when I got here. I. I brought my meta quest and I realized I brought two right. Controllers. I'm like, no, I had my headset on. I go no, no, no, I'm playing a. I'm playing a game now. A new game.

[Joe Rogan]

What's the game?

[Jim Norton]

Jamie, get ready for this. Forefront. 16 on 16. There's tanks, there's fucking choppers. F O R E front.

[Matt Serra]

It is.

[Jim Norton]

Forget about part one. Forget about contractors. I know I hyped them up on here before. This fucking game is just pure adrenaline.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, that's.

[Jim Norton]

I just want to say that. Get that out. Joe. I'm telling you. Used to like the Quake shit.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I want to see what it looks like.

[Jim Norton]

Show me what Forefront is so good.

[Joe Rogan]

Here it is.

[Jim Norton]

This is 16 on 16. Yeah, that's. But where's the gameplay? This is the. You you have to. I love the sniping. Oh, you. You give me my behemoth and I am taking people out.

[Joe Rogan]

You just bring that dude back to life.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Oh yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

There.

[Jim Norton]

But it is so. Look at the tanks. But you're seeing this through your VR. It is so much fun. Me and my brother in law Edwin, we go on this and we take souls.

[Joe Rogan]

You can get on a bike.

[Jim Norton]

You could do all four. The four wheeler. They have anti aircraft, they have carriers, ACPs, they have tanks.

[Joe Rogan]

How do you have a life outside of this? Well, that's the problem. That's the problem with these things.

[Jim Norton]

House of Women, you know, they're watching Love on the Spectrum and I'm playing this.

[Joe Rogan]

The problem is these are too good. They're too fun. They could take your whole life away.

[Jim Norton]

No, I got a two hour time limit on my. I play until my battery dies.

[Joe Rogan]

That's good. You know, two hours, that's all those things around that.

[Jim Norton]

Hour and a half. Hey, after a day of making people more dangerous. Do my podcast. You know, I deserve it. How many Italian.

[Matt Serra]

I deserve it.

[Joe Rogan]

No, you deserve it. I'm just scared. I'm scared. I watch it. I get scared.

[Jim Norton]

You should. Hey, we could squat up.

[Joe Rogan]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Jim Norton]

Come on.

[Matt Serra]

You would get addicted to this.

[Joe Rogan]

No, no, no. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a real problem, dude. It's a real problem.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, it was like, I can't play these. It was like a crackhead that couldn't get his lighter work into that. Cuz that's how I like to kill time here when I'm.

[Joe Rogan]

I made a decision a long time ago to never bring like a gaming setup with me on the road. I'm like, I can't do it. Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

Where it goes.

[Joe Rogan]

I remember playing. I'll be up till 4o.

[Matt Serra]

I'll be.

[Joe Rogan]

If like any first person shooter where you're running around a map and there's another dude on the map and you got to get a rocket launcher and him up, it'll.

[Matt Serra]

It starts to feel real.

[Joe Rogan]

It feels very real.

[Jim Norton]

Me last night, then I had to go back.

[Joe Rogan]

What is this one old fashioned. What does it look like?

[Eddie Bravo]

Oh my God.

[Joe Rogan]

It's doom. It's Doom in VR. Oh no. This is a problem.

[Jim Norton]

I gotta find this.

[Joe Rogan]

But Doom is. I actually think this is the player of Queen.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, it is. Quake one. Yeah. Oh, wow.

[Jim Norton]

You like the Quake stuff? Love it.

[Joe Rogan]

But I'm a. I'm more of a Quake 3 Arena guy because Quake 3 Arena, like show them some Quake 3 Arena. They got the graphics down and then they had it set up where everything was online. So you didn't have to like buy the new version of Quake and download it to your computer and run it and play it and. No, it's online. So you just log in and you're playing this streaming thing. It's phenomenal.

[Jim Norton]

It's like that now with the matter. You just get updates.

[Joe Rogan]

Show some highlights of gameplay so you can see what it looks like. Supposed to be the VR. Here it is. Oh, this is the VR version. Oh, Jesus Christ. Why are you showing me this?

[Jim Norton]

Don't show me this.

[Joe Rogan]

Because I was gonna tell you next that the Apple Vision Pro is being updated now so we can play with fire up. Don't do this to me, dude. Don't do this to me. This is my game. This is my game. I love this. As if you had a starlink. You could just do this. Shut the up.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, you just.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm not doing this.

[Jim Norton]

Is it a battle royale? You just got to kill everybody?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. The problem is, man, I start doing it, and if I start people up, I can't stop.

[Jim Norton]

It's fun, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

And I got pretty good at it. Not like, you know, I could win tournaments good. But I got pretty good at it. Like, I. These guys up. The dudes in the studio. I up.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

I would get real addicted to it, and I'd start getting.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, that's a problem.

[Joe Rogan]

I start playing online and just going into room.

[Jim Norton]

Next thing you.

[Eddie Bravo]

You know.

[Jim Norton]

Yep.

[Matt Serra]

Your life is ruined.

[Joe Rogan]

This is one of my favorite maps. You bounce out to this one, and everybody could see you. So they're all sniping you when you try to come back. When you get the God power now, you just destroy everyone, right?

[Jim Norton]

You speak in my language.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at this, bro. You got a rail gun. Precision, movement. Boom. Look at that. That's the rail. Look at the rail gun, bro. You got to have super accuracy.

[Jim Norton]

Boom.

[Joe Rogan]

And while you got God power, you just have to hit him once.

[Matt Serra]

Boom.

[Jim Norton]

Boom.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at that. Oh, this guy's got timing. This. This is a dick. This is like you're watching. I'm watching people smoke crack, and I'm going, give me that pipe, baby. Give me that pipe.

[Jim Norton]

It's so funny.

[Joe Rogan]

But if that was VR, I would never have a life. I don't have a life. I can't do it.

[Jim Norton]

It's just. Helps balance me out.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what it's like, dude? It's like Jiu jitsu. If you never got tired.

[Jim Norton]

Ah, yeah. Well, that's what. That's why you have the battery life on it. That thing gets.

[Joe Rogan]

Imagine if you never got tired.

[Matt Serra]

You just do it all day.

[Joe Rogan]

If you never got hurt, you never got tired. You'd just be training constantly.

[Matt Serra]

Especially if you were people up.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, my God.

[Matt Serra]

Always winning and tapping people out once

[Joe Rogan]

you got to a certain level. I mean, this is, to me, straight crack.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, dude, that looks fun.

[Joe Rogan]

Come on. How fun is this game? You're swapping weapons instantaneously, and you have certain weapons set to different keys. Like, my railgun is always. Always this middle. The wheel button. I hit that, I get the rail gun. And you can adjust your speed of your mouse depending on the weapon.

[Jim Norton]

Do you hear the other players? Do they complain when you use a certain weapon.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know if they use that with this. I never did. I don't. When you chat with Quake, you would have to pull the menu down and chat. If you have a bunch of people talking while you're playing, it's going to ruin your game experience.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Sometimes with this forefront, I don't want anybody talking. I just want to kill you.

[Jim Norton]

Be like, good job. Yeah, good job, un. They call me un. Good job, un. You had to use a shotgun. You know, I try to be mature. I'm like, you're dead, you little. You're dead. You should use a shotgun. Yeah, yeah. They complain when I kill him. They're like, what are you, 30? You're playing a game. I'm like, well, I'm actually 50. Thank you, kid. I'll take 30.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm like, well, I remember when I was in high school, I found out Madonna was 26. I was like, oh, she's old,

[Jim Norton]

dude. I remember. I remember getting ready for a fight at 35. I was getting ready for trig, and I had Gian Valante there. Now he's older than this now. He's like, dude, how does it feel to be 35? I go, dude, you. I'm still fighting you. You know, I bring that up until now, he's like, 40 now. Say you caught up to me a little, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, man. You know, it's weird. We're all dying.

[Jim Norton]

I know. It is.

[Matt Serra]

I mean, think about it. Like, we don't have much time left.

[Eddie Bravo]

Slow to process, really.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm 58.

[Jim Norton]

What are you, Johnny?

[Eddie Bravo]

57.

[Joe Rogan]

Damn.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, you guys could work in high school together. I'm 51.

[Matt Serra]

Young man. I'm still only 49.

[Jim Norton]

You're full of.

[Matt Serra]

I'm 49.

[Joe Rogan]

Keeping it together.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

All right. I like it.

[Jim Norton]

I thought you would be like a Brazilian. Rodrigo Gracie used to lie about his age. Like a chicken. Dude, you're. You're my age. What does it say, 29 still?

[Joe Rogan]

What are you talking about? No one knows how old yoel is.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, I bet it's probably older.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I know.

[Eddie Bravo]

Might be older.

[Jim Norton]

It does feel weird when you say 51. Like, when I say 51, I'm like, oh, 50s. I go.

[Eddie Bravo]

And I'm.

[Jim Norton]

When you're younger, you never really picture you'll be. Yeah, me too.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm almost 60.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean, when we were growing up, though, 60 was broken down.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It's a big difference from shout out to ways to. Well, yeah, right? Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

For life med. For me.

[Matt Serra]

Hang out. Do you hang out with younger guys? Because I hang out with all.

[Eddie Bravo]

You're in the gym, you're with younger people.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm always with younger comics. Unless it's Ron White.

[Matt Serra]

Right?

[Jim Norton]

It's those worlds. And I bet you, I bet you when you hang out with Ron White, it doesn't feel like hanging out with an old man. No, it's like me and Longo.

[Eddie Bravo]

That guy's awesome jam.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a gem.

[Jim Norton]

Longo's 67.

[Joe Rogan]

He'll just say, he'll throw away something. It'll just be so funny where I'll be dying, like laughing. He's a naturally funny dude and just a sweetheart of a guy.

[Jim Norton]

He was good in tires also.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, he's great.

[Jim Norton]

I like that show.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, well, you know, he's homies with Shane. Shane's always there too. Tonight it's. But that's again like young people that are doing the thing we all love to do. Having fun, just, just like a jiu jitsu gym. Just like anything else, you know? I mean this idea that you have to one day grow up, like that's not true. I'm here to tell you it's not true. You should grow up in some ways, like be a good dad, take care of your taxes, you know, that kind of stuff. Why you looking at me after that. Shut up.

[Jim Norton]

Shut up.

[Joe Rogan]

Have fun.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, that's shut up. That's me in a nutshell.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. There's nothing wrong with you playing those games. Just don't tell those kids how old you are.

[Jim Norton]

I know, call me old man.

[Joe Rogan]

This guy sounds 30.

[Jim Norton]

I'm like, you little.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but it's. God knows, bro, don't have a heart attack. For real.

[Eddie Bravo]

You have to take any breaks in the middle of your VR experiences.

[Jim Norton]

I, I, I, I'm not above. I'm not above those little bastards. When they get wise, I'm squatting down on them in my thing, in my tea bagger guy. After you kill him, they get mouthy. I will teabag somewhere. I don't give a that. You don't outgrow that.

[Joe Rogan]

So you, you actually squat physically and it does it?

[Jim Norton]

Maybe my wife's like, what are you doing? He deserves it, honey.

[Joe Rogan]

Crazy. Listen, it's crazy sometimes different than a video control. You're actually. That's crazy.

[Jim Norton]

I get my squats in.

[Joe Rogan]

Have you seen those multi directional treadmills? Yeah, but I'm not doing those games on now.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, but I'm not running my knees Aren't good for that.

[Joe Rogan]

So there's a treadmill like a circle. And it goes in any direct omnidirectional, I think they call it. And you're strapped in with a harness that you can see from. You just move. Move like you're running. You would be in insane shape.

[Eddie Bravo]

There'd be some people in better shape.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, do you. You would think how good that would be for your footwork. Like, if you could have a VR. There's a good VR boxing game. And one of the things that I noticed when I was playing it was my feet were hurting because I was doing it on concrete, on cement, and I was wearing like, Converse All Stars. And you just push it off your feet all the time. I was like, oh, my God, I'm getting a foot workout. This is crazy. Like, it was gassing me out. Because you really see the guy and he pops you. Everything goes white. Like you got stunned.

[Matt Serra]

Like, boom. Oh. And you got to get him back.

[Jim Norton]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And you're moving. You're moving around stuff. There's a bunch of them.

[Jim Norton]

I got to get into those tiring.

[Matt Serra]

I did that before.

[Joe Rogan]

Is when you hold the gloves, like, if you hold the hand things like this, it shows the gloves like this. So when you're punching, it looks like you're punching them wrong. So it your head up.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what I mean? So when you're twisting to punch, it's showing this.

[Jim Norton]

And it your head up, give it a wing chunk.

[Joe Rogan]

So, like, if you punch like this, it'll look like the knuckles are coming up, but you're doing this.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

Figure how can't they get that?

[Joe Rogan]

They should get that right. It should be where your hands are positioned.

[Eddie Bravo]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

So if you hold it like that, it should be the gloves are like that. And then you turn it like that. And it looks so that way it doesn't with your head while you're punching that thing because it's weird.

[Matt Serra]

Clearly the developers

[Eddie Bravo]

and fix that.

[Joe Rogan]

But I think there's some real benefit in it. For real. Because first of all, it's harder to hit air than it is to hit a thing. Right. So you get a little workout doing doing that. The things don't weigh much, but you could always put like a little. A little wrist weight or something. Or someone could make a controller that has lead in it that has a couple of pounds for each one. You get good endurance doing it. And you're doing a lot of footwork drills because, like your lomachenko good for you. And it's Also showing you how to move away from things. Encounter. There's a bunch of different things that you could actually apply to. It's better than real shadow boxing.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I was about to say it's like. It's like.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Intense.

[Jim Norton]

Intense.

[Matt Serra]

Extreme shadow box.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. Yes. It's like you're really visualizing because there's an actual thing in front of you. I think there's benefit to it. I think it would help you.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean, 100. I think there'd be benefit.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And you're not getting hit. Right. So it's timing.

[Eddie Bravo]

We're not getting the CTE right.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not. It's going to replace sparring. You're always going to need to spar. But it'll give you a lot of like, neural pathways to different movements that you'll. You'll have like, programmed in you in a fight with zero contact consequences.

[Matt Serra]

Right?

[Eddie Bravo]

That's great.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You can't do with Jiu Jitsu, unfortunately. But you probably could with a robot one day.

[Jim Norton]

Right?

[Joe Rogan]

Like, you get a good AI robot, you know, that's not gonna spaz out on you and rip your head off.

[Matt Serra]

I would never trust that.

[Jim Norton]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Imagine the AI got mad if you had many times. I'm gonna show you my real strength, Dean. In this next role, I'm not going to go easier.

[Eddie Bravo]

All right?

[Jim Norton]

What?

[Joe Rogan]

What do you mean?

[Jim Norton]

I'm watching you. You know what? Your eyes out. You got me.

[Joe Rogan]

Heel hook.

[Jim Norton]

Only because they look human. The cyclones. I'm watching the battle. I started watching it. It's great. It's really good. It's really fun.

[Matt Serra]

What is that on? I'm almost on the first season on

[Joe Rogan]

the Sci Fi Network. Years ago, it was un. Like unappreciated series. Like one of the greatest sci fi series of all time. The reboot of Battlestar Galactica. I was super skeptical because Battlestar Galactic when I was a kid, I loved it.

[Eddie Bravo]

Everybody was a super campy camping.

[Joe Rogan]

And then all of a sudden, Skywalker was a girl now. I was like, what? Starbucks? Starbucks. Starbucks was a girl now. Katie's amazing.

[Jim Norton]

She's great, man.

[Joe Rogan]

That series rules, dude.

[Jim Norton]

It's a great.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a great writing.

[Jim Norton]

I'm on the first season. I'm almost done with it now. I got like an episode left.

[Joe Rogan]

Way better than the original series.

[Jim Norton]

It's really. It's really.

[Joe Rogan]

It's phenomenal. It's really good. And the Cylon scare the out of you. And they're hot, hot chicks.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's ruin your life.

[Matt Serra]

Oh my Favorite.

[Joe Rogan]

Good. Yeah, everybody's favorite. It's great. It's a great series.

[Jim Norton]

John James Elmos or whatever.

[Joe Rogan]

James Elmo.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

He was great. Is he amazing? Did he die? I don't know.

[Joe Rogan]

James Almost. Is he alive?

[Eddie Bravo]

Edward James.

[Joe Rogan]

Edward James Almost. That's right.

[Jim Norton]

He was great in that.

[Joe Rogan]

He's great.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Mexican prison movie. Remember that?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. What was that? Blood in, blood and Blood Out.

[Joe Rogan]

You got in trouble with that. They wanted to kill him because they made it out like, these dudes are each other in jail.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, they're not.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, even if they are.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Don't talk about it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Snitches get stitches.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Man, I think people died because of that movie.

[Eddie Bravo]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I think people were killed.

[Eddie Bravo]

Heard. Heard something about that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Makes you not want to go to jail.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I just don't think they let these dudes know how they were going to portray them in jail, and I think, you know.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, they weren't happy about that.

[Joe Rogan]

Severe disrespect. Is he alive? Edward James Almost. Yes. Yes.

[Jim Norton]

Good for him.

[Joe Rogan]

79. He's phenomenal on that show. Phenomenal on that show.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a great show.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Yeah. I just got a. I. I think I heard you talking about it, and I put it in. I got on Amazon Prime. I bought the first season. It's good.

[Joe Rogan]

There's another Amazon series. What's it called? Not the Eclipse. The Expanse.

[Jim Norton]

Yes. Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

That's supposed to.

[Jim Norton]

I watched a bunch of.

[Matt Serra]

Of those.

[Jim Norton]

I got to get back into that. Sometimes it gets a little chatty.

[Joe Rogan]

I watched a couple of them. I was like, I see. This could be really good. But my wife wasn't into it, so we abandoned it.

[Jim Norton]

It's. It's good.

[Joe Rogan]

Keep hearing. I keep hearing. I hear. Once you get past, like, the first few episodes, it really picks up.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, it's good. It has Thomas Jane. What's Thomas Jane?

[Eddie Bravo]

Oh, yeah, he played Punisher.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, he's in that. At least the first season. It's good. The guy who's the lead guy reminds me of Jon Snow.

[Joe Rogan]

Have you seen. Really?

[Jim Norton]

He looks like a skinnier J. Jon Snow on Apple.

[Joe Rogan]

Bernthal played the Punisher, right?

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, there was a bunch of people.

[Joe Rogan]

How many people played the Punisher?

[Eddie Bravo]

Well, I mean, that. The guy from.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, that's back in the day.

[Eddie Bravo]

Four or five of them.

[Joe Rogan]

They gave him fake stubble, and it was obvious. It was like, literally, like the makeup lady didn't even try. She just smudged some fake. It's the worst face stubble you've ever Seen in your life. See if you can find that Dolph Lundgren face double from the Punisher. It's like you're looking at that. Go like. Just leave him unshaven.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, he was cool as him, the guy from Rome.

[Eddie Bravo]

Stevenson.

[Joe Rogan]

I know, but you can't see it in there. Like a photo from the actual. The actual movie it looked like. Why does he have smudges all over his cheeks?

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, I like Barenthal the best.

[Jim Norton]

The new Spider man movie. He's going to be in it. The Punisher.

[Joe Rogan]

The Punisher. Punish is supposed to be gigantic though. He's supposed to be like that dude that plays Reaper.

[Jim Norton]

I thought racing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Adam Richmond. Yeah, he's supposed to be like Adam Richmond. It's supposed to be. That's what the Punisher is supposed to be. Supposed to be a giant jack dude who kills everybody.

[Jim Norton]

And good for Reacher for smacking that guy around. You know, he looks like he's running there with his kids. The guy got in his face.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Jim Norton]

Made him drop his bike. Got his face again. He deserved a smack.

[Joe Rogan]

Pushed him off. Him off his bike. Yeah, you know, hell, that guy looked like a. Well, he said he was drunk, so. The guy smelled like booze.

[Matt Serra]

Oh no. Smack him up.

[Joe Rogan]

He was asking. They showed the cops version of the video when they. They went to his house. He's like, could you run a toxicology on that guy? Because I think he's drunk. He smelled like liquor. The guy tried to knock him up. Well, you see that guy?

[Eddie Bravo]

What are you doing?

[Jim Norton]

Why are you pushing?

[Eddie Bravo]

He's real lucky he had that camera on. You know what I mean? Cuz that saved him 100.

[Joe Rogan]

100. Because if you only got to see him beating that guy up, that would have been a real, real problem because that guy denied it. But he had a camera going on his chest pack. Yeah, luckily, yeah. You see that guy grabbing the bike and pushing him?

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, I put hands on him first.

[Joe Rogan]

In front of kids.

[Jim Norton]

Man, there's so many people out there.

[Joe Rogan]

If you're on a bike and you fall and the bike falls in your leg like. You idiot. Yeah, you know, dangerous. You break someone's leg that way.

[Jim Norton]

100 warranted. When I went to go see that project Hail Mary the other day, dude, this. These motherfuckers. I got the second row and sure enough, the first row, like five teenagers, dude, they don't even. They have their phone and it's bright and you see it like they don't give a fuck. The lady, there's a couple next to Me older. The lady comes out, she takes her thing out. I'm like, what? I feel like saying, you should know better, lady. What the fuck? And the kids, I want to. I. A couple times I got up and then they put it down. I'm like, I know I'm going to say something and if I get the wrong response, am I going to smack a 15 year old? Am I going to smack. If I get a fuck you guy, what's going to happen? Because I'm not totally normal. I mean, you know what I mean? I don't, I just don't want to because there's right and is wrong. A whole generation has not been checked. They're going to get smacked because they're mouth 20 and I just see UFC fighter smacks 15 year old. I didn't see that happening. But anyway, I got out of there without nothing. But it's just annoying.

[Joe Rogan]

Kids are so addicted to their phones, they can't put them down for five seconds.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

It's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

In movie theater, they can't stop texting people.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They're not enjoying anything. Everything they're doing, they're getting distracted.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is crazy.

[Jim Norton]

I feel like talking to their parents.

[Joe Rogan]

That's not going to help, you know?

[Matt Serra]

No, you got to smack them.

[Joe Rogan]

Someone's got to smack.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, man.

[Joe Rogan]

I'll tell you, that happened.

[Eddie Bravo]

Our generation, if you acted a fool, you got slapped.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. If you talk mouth in a movie theater, someone's going to get up. You know, if you were loud in a movie theater, people would get up and hey, shut the up. Like I've seen that happen many times in movie theaters. People almost get in fights.

[Matt Serra]

They don't do that no more.

[Jim Norton]

That is, ah. There's no repercussions. I think whole like, what did Mike Tyson say? A lot of what he say? He said something like a lot of people, you get used to talking without

[Eddie Bravo]

getting smacked until you get punched in the face.

[Jim Norton]

Something like that. Yeah. And it's just true, like people just don't worry about anything, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

But there's also so many streamers that are doing these things online where they're provoking people on purpose that it's almost like normalizing.

[Jim Norton]

I hate that.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

I like when they get smacked.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah. They think it's like they're creating content by harassing these people. Fucking with old people. Like just walking up to people in the store and.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

Doing to him. I don't, I don't understand it.

[Jim Norton]

Tiki elbowed that kid in the face. Oh, yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

You know what? That kid, he's starting with everybody. I was happy, dude.

[Jim Norton]

I mean, that's, I mean, I looked at that. I'm like, that's warranted. I mean, you're in my face. Tell me you're gonna me up. I could do this.

[Joe Rogan]

He said he's gonna him up, and then he got close to him, like he was gonna bump into him.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, but I mean. And you know what? They don't even give a. Because they get clicks. I don't think they give a.

[Matt Serra]

But that's because. That's because, like, they're getting hit by like regular people. Except for the tiki case, but they're getting by regular people. Like, I'm, I'm waiting for the opportunity to ladies for five on somebody's chin. They'll be, they'll be the trying to put somebody out.

[Joe Rogan]

They'll press charges. They'll sue you. Also, you. You know, if you knock somebody out and they fall and hit their head and die, that's a problem.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, that'll be a problem.

[Joe Rogan]

And that's a real possibility.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, body shot.

[Eddie Bravo]

Strangle them and lay them down.

[Matt Serra]

That liver shot.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. But you know, you're not going to throw. This dummy's got in a fight with the former UFC heavyweight champion, the current bare knuckle boxing champion in the world. You dumb asses.

[Eddie Bravo]

That was hilarious when I saw this.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at. He's just teeing off on dudes. Imagine you getting Andre Arlovski's face. How the do you not know who he is?

[Matt Serra]

First of all, again, my point exactly. Like, how do you not know who Andre Orlovsky is?

[Jim Norton]

And then they got their bodyguards next to them to try to shout out

[Joe Rogan]

to that dude wins bare knuckles boxing.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, I lost. He's a stud.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I mean, he's still getting after it and he still seems to enjoy it.

[Matt Serra]

Like almost 30 years in the game.

[Jim Norton]

And he's the guy that you kind of wrote off his chin a while ago. And then all of a sudden, it's like, I never saw a chin make a comeback.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, incredible.

[Eddie Bravo]

Freddie Roach said he thought he could really be a contender if he just had, you know, proper chin. Like he said his boxing skills were there.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I mean, there was so many times where he got clipped. Like, the Fedor one was the one wildest. He was winning that fight.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, he was, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

He was good.

[Eddie Bravo]

In the middle of a jumping knee.

[Joe Rogan]

Big mistake.

[Jim Norton]

Laces out moment right there.

[Joe Rogan]

Fedor that just found ways to win. He just found ways to win, man.

[Matt Serra]

Sure did remember when Randleman was it

[Eddie Bravo]

Random

[Joe Rogan]

place him on his neck.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

Then he kimored him. Yeah, like that ain't easy to kimura a gorilla. You know what I'm saying?

[Joe Rogan]

And random man was so exploded. It was so fast.

[Eddie Bravo]

That guy was just Nothing. Muscle fiber 100.

[Joe Rogan]

100. Right. He had the worst staff I've ever seen in my life. Right. He had holes in his armpit. Oh, he lifts his armpit up, and you could see the. The skin was gone. You could see the tendons and all the ligaments.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

See if you can find it, Jamie. Yeah. It's the craziest thing, because Staff, if you don't get that treated right away and you let it get systemic, I mean, it probably led to his early demise. It probably was something that led to him dying early. Rest in peace. Look at that. That's his armpit. That's his armpit, dude.

[Jim Norton]

I mean, keep his wallet in there.

[Joe Rogan]

You know how crazy that is? You know crazy that kind of hole is and what that does to your body.

[Matt Serra]

God damn.

[Joe Rogan]

Because it's not even when that heals up. Like, it's going to take a long time before your body gets back to normal. Oh, man, Staff.

[Jim Norton]

Scary, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Staff's real scary.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, come on, man.

[Eddie Bravo]

We're going to Italian

[Joe Rogan]

Pete.

[Eddie Bravo]

Spratt fought a fight when he. I didn't he fight one. He got bit by a brown recluse. Like, his leg had a hole in it.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, those are scary. Those.

[Jim Norton]

Damn.

[Joe Rogan]

They necrotize you. They like their. Their venom burns a hole through your muscle tissue. Oh, it's horrible. You ever see brown recluse spider bites?

[Matt Serra]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like, first just swells up, and you get, like, a big zit on it, and then it eventually eats the tissue underneath the venom.

[Jim Norton]

Spiders.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you got to get that treated right away. And even then, it's, like, really dangerous. People die from it. Brown recluse are scary spiders. See if you can find brown recluse spider injury. Nasty, dude.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Creepy little bugs out there.

[Jim Norton]

I'm going to get the eggplant roll. A teeny later, we'll see what else we have.

[Joe Rogan]

I just want to show you one more gross thing, and then we could move on land, like.

[Matt Serra]

Dang.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

Look at that, man.

[Jim Norton]

Come on, man. Was that a water balloon?

[Joe Rogan]

Burns a hole in you.

[Matt Serra]

This is like, yo, what do those things live at? I don't want to get bit by that Texas. They're all over the place.

[Joe Rogan]

They're all over the place. It's. We're so lucky. They're little.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, you got that out here, those things.

[Joe Rogan]

But imagine that was as big as a bear.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Take over the planet.

[Eddie Bravo]

Imagine a person, Brian. Man is as big as a bear.

[Jim Norton]

Dude in Long Island, I guess we just got some out there. But we don't got to worry about. We don't gotta worry about no things getting a flesh off.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's a few serial killers.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, a few serial killers. Guys wearing wife beaters. That's it.

[Joe Rogan]

I was just watching this video where they said the most popular job for serial killer is those long range truckers.

[Eddie Bravo]

Makes sense.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I mean, you got. I mean, you're on the road, got a lot of access to a lot of different people.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And also you think you keep it moving, keep it moving, keep it moving.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Before they even know what happened, you're gone.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

There's a bunch of them that are linked to potentially the long range truckers that they never solved.

[Jim Norton]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. They don't catch a lot of those guys. That's what's up. You want to think like that. Life's like a movie where they catch.

[Matt Serra]

Where they catch them all.

[Joe Rogan]

But random killers are some of the hardest to catch because they just show up, kill somebody, leave, and there's no rhyme or reason to it. They just wanted to kill somebody. So there's no, like, motive. It's hard to tell. And if they've done it and not gotten caught for a few years, if they're clever like a lot of these guys, like the Zodiac Killer, he was brilliant. He wrote things in code they had. I don't even know if they ever cracked all of it. They not. They still don't know who the it was.

[Jim Norton]

They did that movie.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, I saw, I saw that movie. Right?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. They kind of made it like it was the Janet guy.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think think they know. I mean, unless there's some new data, unless there's some new information, I think it's a unsolved mystery. But he was obviously brilliant. So you got a really smart guy who's just randomly killing people. And he's also taunting you with letters, leaving letters behind.

[Matt Serra]

It's got to be a little more difficult now with all the cameras.

[Jim Norton]

And what has John D. Ever been up to? Does he have an alibi? Does he? In New York at that time,

[Eddie Bravo]

the

[Joe Rogan]

dark lord trying out new techniques.

[Jim Norton]

It's great.

[Joe Rogan]

All right, boys, should we wrap this up, man?

[Jim Norton]

Good times.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, one more thing. We should probably talk about the White House card. Ooh, yeah. Like we going? Yeah, Unless things get crazy between now and then. But the idea of them fighting outside, outside in Washington D.C. in the middle of the summer, nice humidity and heat. Crazy to me. You ask someone to dehydrate themselves to cut weight, you know, I mean, think about Gaethje. Gaethje's gonna cut. He's gotta cut to get to 55. Ilya probably doesn't have to cut too much. But you're fighting for the world title and you're fighting outside. That's the noon. The noon time has not been corrected, which makes more sense.

[Jim Norton]

We get good weather.

[Joe Rogan]

So the pay per view or the main card starts at 8pm Eastern.

[Jim Norton]

8. I was in the middle. I was in Abu Dhabi when they did that.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a little better. Yeah, but also it can rain. Yeah, it could easily rain. There's going to be bugs. Imagine getting lit up by mosquitoes while you're mounting a guy, you hear him and you hear

[Jim Norton]

will they put a

[Eddie Bravo]

tent up over the.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know what they're going to do.

[Jim Norton]

Dude. Back in the day, they have King of Cage and it was like raining out and shit.

[Eddie Bravo]

It was called Wet Wild or something.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's a mess.

[Matt Serra]

Fights outside are a mess.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a mess. It's a terrible idea. I hate it.

[Eddie Bravo]

There was a couple of rain in that cage. That was a crazy show.

[Joe Rogan]

If you're fighting in an elite world championship level, you should be fighting in a controlled environment, period.

[Matt Serra]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

It's already a problem enough to fight to deal with.

[Eddie Bravo]

Why? Cause the extra factors.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, all these different variables that you might not get the best fighter.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. And you. It also might severely impair someone who's had gone through big weight cut. If it's really hot out, I don't know what it's going to be like, but we looked it up. Wasn't it last year at that same date? I think that was 2020, I guess 4. But still it's like. It was what it was like 100 degrees.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, dude, I live it there.

[Joe Rogan]

I live in Baltimore. It'll be hot and huge.

[Jim Norton]

Everybody's dealing with the same thing though. So it's not like somebody's got something different to deal with.

[Eddie Bravo]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

But it's not fair because people deal with them differently. If, if you're having world change championship fights where you're going to decide who's the best in the world, it should be in a controlled environment. Yeah. You know, the White House, baby.

[Jim Norton]

It's still the. We do. We were not legal in New York when I was fighting, and now we're at the White House.

[Joe Rogan]

It's crazy.

[Jim Norton]

That is crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

They're doing it. I support all crazy things, so I'm going, too.

[Matt Serra]

So.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, I just.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you have to. It's your job. I just.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, I just got. I just got the call for clearance.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm going to.

[Jim Norton]

So, yeah, I'll be watching on Paramount Plus. Yeah, Jimmy wanted to go. He said, can we go?

[Matt Serra]

I'm like,

[Jim Norton]

how many people are gonna

[Joe Rogan]

be outside in the audience? That's the question. I don't know, like, how many people are gonna. Is it gonna be a round thing?

[Matt Serra]

Well, apparently, I think on. On Saturday's broadcast, they're gonna announce, like, how it's gonna look. So, like, that's part of, I think, part of the allure war for watching Saturday shows. They're going to announce how it's supposed to look.

[Jim Norton]

It's exciting, though. You gotta say it.

[Joe Rogan]

It's crazy. It's definitely crazy.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean, it's only.

[Joe Rogan]

This president would do it.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, this card. You saying this card? Oh, yeah. It's a very good card, I'm telling you. The Mirza Khanov and Paulo Costa one is the one that I got my eye on. I'm like, that could be very interesting. Very interesting. Because Paulo's a big middleweight. It might do him good later in his career to go up to light heavyweight, I think. So Imurzakanov's not a big light anyway.

[Jim Norton]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

He's only 5, 10.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, he's.

[Jim Norton]

He's short.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Eddie Bravo]

Oh, he's got weight to cut, too. I mean, he's not exactly. He ain't. He ain't Paulo.

[Joe Rogan]

No, no, no, not even close. He's definitely. Carries much more body fat on him.

[Jim Norton]

Who is he fought. That's close. Is he fought anybody?

[Joe Rogan]

Rocket stop Rockets last fight.

[Eddie Bravo]

That's it.

[Joe Rogan]

But he hasn't. It's been hard for him to get fights. They made Dana a little taller there. The only thing he said would stop the fight. Yeah. Well, that could be it. Yeah. That would suck. Imagine someone died from getting hit by lightning.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Raise their hand up at the end of the fight, they get hit by lightning.

[Matt Serra]

That'd be a bad look for the ufc, I think.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I just don't.

[Jim Norton]

Bruce Buffer gets it.

[Joe Rogan]

I. I like the idea on paper, but the fact that I'm going to

[Eddie Bravo]

be there, sequin jacket, attracted to lightning.

[Joe Rogan]

Christ, this is going to be crazy. People are probably going to protest it. It's going to be nuts.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, it's going to be a lot of protesters out there for sure.

[Eddie Bravo]

All this stuff in the world going on protest. Because it's going to be a lot of pro Trump people in that audience. It could be a mess.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that's what they like. You know, a lot of people that are running this world, like when there's

[Eddie Bravo]

fights, chaos, that's a.

[Joe Rogan]

They like rioting and they'll connect it to Trump and they'll spin it and connect it to whatever the they want to.

[Jim Norton]

I just want to see some good fights.

[Joe Rogan]

Cyril gone and Pereira is a very good fight.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah, it's an interesting fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Very interesting fight.

[Eddie Bravo]

Just because a gun poking everybody in their eyes. I'd be happy to see him lose. But he's. I mean the size is real and. And he's got legit skills.

[Joe Rogan]

Legit skills that tie to Ivasa fight. Remember those combinations he was hitting tie

[Jim Norton]

with acting skills also KO on Netflix

[Joe Rogan]

Setting up the south lawn will begin one month out compared to a few days out Normal arena Dana and Donald will have 200 tickets each to assign to who they want. 84 from each will be choosing for a VIP event inside the White House. Prior to the fights, most of the rest of the tickets will go to military personnel. The event will have custom fight kits for all fighters on the card.

[Jim Norton]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

And then more to come Saturday. With more to come Saturday. So there'll probably be announcement. The UFC that we'll have to talk about should be interesting.

[Jim Norton]

Nobody's giving Justin a chance here.

[Joe Rogan]

Justin's a animal, dude.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean, I love.

[Jim Norton]

And look how technical he fought when he had to fight.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And he's a very technical fighter.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. If you go by the way he fought Patty, he kind of just walked Patty down. It just like was just. I'm going to create chaos.

[Jim Norton]

But you also got to kind of give Patty a little break where he did get poked in the eye early. And more. I didn't get more ones.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean, I, I think too Gage, he fought with staff. Pretty much everybody thought so.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I mean that thing on his neck.

[Eddie Bravo]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He said it wasn't. And he's grown hair.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean, he can say, you know, he's not going to tell everybody he's got staff before the fight.

[Jim Norton]

He could say it after the fight.

[Joe Rogan]

He looked good though.

[Eddie Bravo]

You know.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a fucking animal.

[Eddie Bravo]

He, he. And the only reason I think that is he don't really get tired. And he seemed like he's mentally so tough. He just pushed through the tired. But you could see he. He Was fatigued at the end day the of I fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he's a. A complicated riddle on the feet too. He's. He's a good standup fighter, man. I mean, when he knocked out Dustin with that head kick, he's. Oh, yeah, he's good.

[Eddie Bravo]

I'm a gaugey fan.

[Joe Rogan]

He can crack.

[Eddie Bravo]

Love to see him do it in.

[Joe Rogan]

In the early days, man, he was one of the wildest guys to watch ever. That Michael Johnson fight was mad. Just madness.

[Eddie Bravo]

Was a pretty crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

He just. Just goes, let's jump off the cliff together. Louise there's Right. Yeah. I mean, that's what he does in those fights, man. And he was one of the best early in his career at throwing leg kicks from really close. So close.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah, he got away from that. I wonder why he got away from that.

[Joe Rogan]

Could be injured shins, you know, could be. Knocked a lot of guys out with his hands. Just wanted to do that more.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean, I thought that was one of his greatest weapons is being so close to just.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow, crazy. Like a weird flexibility of the hips to be able to do that and generate power from in close with what the.

[Jim Norton]

The right hand or the kick.

[Joe Rogan]

He'll do it in a collar tie kick. Nuts. And with power.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, definitely has a chance. I mean, you know, I mean, people will just kind of not even give it him a shot.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm like, that's how good Ilya.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, no, I get it.

[Eddie Bravo]

He gets hit a lot and they're just putting the equation together.

[Matt Serra]

You know, Ilya's got the. That one punch.

[Joe Rogan]

It's.

[Eddie Bravo]

And look at the guys he's done it to, you know, Volkanovski, Charles, Max.

[Jim Norton]

In a row.

[Joe Rogan]

In a row. Brian hall, three KOs in a row against world champions. That's crazy.

[Matt Serra]

Guys who not used to getting, you know, not like.

[Joe Rogan]

But you know, think about how durable Charles is for him. Just one shot like that, take him out. That's crazy. That's crazy for Max.

[Eddie Bravo]

I mean, Max did well in the first round.

[Jim Norton]

He did, but until he got hit,

[Joe Rogan]

until he got it, never been knocked out. He's a different dude. It's. You know, there's levels that this game achieves as people get better and better and better and watch everyone around them. And Ilya is like, this is the next highest level. Right.

[Eddie Bravo]

You know, now everybody's shooting for that.

[Joe Rogan]

Boys, a lot of fun.

[Jim Norton]

Good times again.

[Joe Rogan]

I love we do this. It's so fun. He's my favorite podcast.

[Jim Norton]

I love coming out here. Such a good time.

[Joe Rogan]

And also I Need to find out what's going on in the nerd world.

[Jim Norton]

If you want to find out what's going on in the nerd world, Matt Sarah channel on YouTube, I talk all about that geek shit. That's it. Sometimes I play VR and I do movie reactions where it's like the Mystery Science Theater where I talk to this talk shit. Yeah, I talked during a movie a lot like, damn, what do you got going on?

[Matt Serra]

My movie Flowers, short film coming out. And I got a new show on Paris, Paramount plus called Deep Waters with Jorge Masvidal, Chris Weidman and Dustin Poirier that starts next Monday. Every Monday.

[Joe Rogan]

I like the name Waters.

[Matt Serra]

Deep Waters coming out.

[Eddie Bravo]

And we're still doing ground control. Just opened a school in Sykesville. Dustin Poirier is actually coming out to there and the spot next door to a stratosphere on May 16th. Shogun still going. So groundcontrol USA.com Shogunfights.com and at B. More MMA look at you, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

Promoter, coach, gym owner.

[Eddie Bravo]

Hustling, hustling, hustling.

[Joe Rogan]

All right, thank you. Thank you, guys. Always fun. Bye, guys. This episode is brought to you by Tommy John. A lot of people are trying to feel better dayto day. Clearer heads, better routines. Just making small changes that actually improve how you feel. One thing people don't really think about is comfort. If your underwear isn't right, you're adjusting all day. You don't even realize how much that pulls at your attention. I love Tommy John because their stuff is very comfortable. So comfortable you barely feel it. No adjusting, no chafing, no riding up. You honestly just kind of forget you're even wearing it. And when those little annoyances disappear, you're not distracted. They're briefs. Box, boxer briefs and undershirts move with you. They're super lightweight, and they hold up whether you're working, traveling, or just hanging out. It's one of those small upgrades that actually makes a noticeable difference every single day. Look, with over 30 million pairs sold, there are thousands of people wearing Tommy John right now who are way more comfortable than you. Don't settle. Upgrade. I upgraded my day with Tommy John, and you should, too. Go to tommyjohn.com/rogan right now and experience comfort perfected. Save 25 off your first order with code Rogan. That's tommyjohn. Com Rogan.