A (2:19)

which goes right along with this, goes

B (2:21)

right along with that. And so we created a six lesson course for you all. You can go ahead and download it absolutely free in the description below. And so, dad, I'm excited about jumping into.

A (2:31)

What's the course called?

B (2:32)

It's called Heart Ablaze.

A (2:33)

A heart ablaze. And the only way your heart can be ablaze when you're totally set apart for him. And that's why I love this, because the bride is set apart for him, waiting for his return. Oh, it's so exciting. So here's the question today. Are you ready? Okay. What keeps our society from collapsing into total, complete darkness? That's the question we're going to answer today along with a lot of other questions that we're going to answer today. Even without asking the questions.

B (3:03)

Yeah, I mean that's, that's not a small question at all.

A (3:06)

No, it's not. But actually, scripture gives a name to what keeps us from going to total darkness. And it's called the Restrainer. And I love this. And so when the restrainer, Scripture says, is taken out of the way, lawlessness now is unrestricted, which opens the door for the man of sin, the Antichrist, the lawless one. The Bible calls him to be revealed. And that's when God's wrath begins.

B (3:31)

Okay, so who is the Restrainer?

A (3:33)

The Restrainer that we're going to answer that. Okay. And that's the. I'm glad you asked because I know everybody's wondering, who's this Restrainer? We're going to answer that question. So if you think things are bad now, it's going to get a lot worse. Jesus said, when you hear these things, wars, rumors of wars, all these things are going to happen. The darkness that's coming in, don't let your heart be troubled. Why? Because darkness cannot overcome light. The gates of hell shall not prevail against the church. This is the message you must understand. And let me tell you something. The only thing the enemy has against you is intimidation. He was disarmed by Jesus. He stripped his armor, pulled it away, got rid of it. And he said, all authority and heaven and earth is, is given to me. Therefore you go in my name, which means you have all the authority of heaven backing you because he gave you his name as. What do we call it? The power of attorney. Today that's what we would say. What's a power of attorney? That means Anything. If I give somebody the power of the attorney, they can do anything in my absence. In my name, they can do anything. I've given them that. That ability. That's what Jesus gave the church. And he said, the gates of hell will not prevail against it. I'm excited already. Yeah.

B (4:48)

Well, can I ask you this question? Because when you're. I love how passionate you're getting, but you're saying all that authority, that's the power of attorney that basically has been given to people. Why is it, though, then, we have so many Christians that then feel like. Almost like, well, I'm not a restraining force. I'm not. I'm not being able to hold back. I feel like I'm. I'm kind of just. Things are getting worse and worse and like, I. I don't really have an effect on that. So is it just because they don't understand?

A (5:17)

I'll tell you a story to answer that question. Queen Elizabeth, the Queen before her had a servant in her palace that she absolutely loved. The Queen died. The servant ended up living in utter poverty in a little dilapidated cottage, British English cottage. And one day a newspaper decided to come in. After years and years, decades of her living in this dilapidated cottage, they decided to do a story on her. And they came in and one of the reporters saw a little plaque she had on the wall. And the reporter said, what's this? She said, oh, the Queen gave it to me, and I just love this so much. And it was hanging up on her little wall in this terrible place. She was living in utter poverty. He said, can I take this with me? I promise I'll bring it back. And she said, as long as you bring it back. Well, the guy went in and checked it. The Queen left her an entire property, beautiful home. So here she was, living decades in this cottage, when already the Queen had given her this magnificent property. He came back, he said, I've got great news for you. This is your property. Showed her. She was like, oh, my goodness. This is why believers are living below what God has called us to live in. This is why believers are not receiving from heaven. We have been. The Bible says that he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places. In Christ Jesus. Not. He's going to. He has. We have been raised up together and made to sit together with Christ and in heavenly places now, not later, where far above all principalities, powers, rulers of darkness of this world and spiritual wickedness in high place. We have the inheritance now.

B (7:02)

Yeah.

A (7:03)

And it's just those who Understand it. That's why we preach this gospel, to tell you you are not subject to this world, to the, to the powers of darkness. You have been liberated. Jesus came to preach the what? The liberation. The year of jubilees. Set the captives free. And that's where we're to be living in right now. That's why people are to look at us and go, what is it that you have? Why are you not subject to all this fear and this heaviness that's being launched by social media, mainstream media. It's because we have the good news of the gospel. Yeah. And we're not citizens of this world. We're just passing through, doing our job.

B (7:43)

Yeah.

A (7:43)

All that.

B (7:44)

It comes. Yeah. To me, it comes down to just that, understanding what you've been given. I think it's kind of new creation for a lot of people is they don't understand what new creation is. It's like, oh, this is great. My old old self is gone and new has come. But how does that fit in with everything else that I've dealt with? And okay, I'm going to try to fit it in. But actually they don't have this realization of new creation, which I know that's not where we're going into.

A (8:06)

So I don't want. No, no, no, no. We're open to the Holy Spirit. Spirit trails. We are. So in our last episode, we started talking about something that was really important. And that is this why I believe. And this is. This is my personal belief in studying the Scriptures for hundreds, thousands of hours. That the church will not be here during the seven tribulation. That the church will be caught away as 1st Thessalonians 4 and 1st Corinthians 15 tells us. And I'm giving the scriptural reasons. These are not for you to argue with your friends. These are not for you to become dogmatic. These are to comfort you. Paul said, comfort one another with these words, not get in debates with one another. Hey, my own wife, I don't even know where she stands on this. She's kind of alluded that she doesn't agree. It's okay. We laugh about it, we joke about it. But you know what? This is what I firmly believe from studying the scriptures from hours. In fact, we had one of our team members that actually said they did not believe that the catching away of the church would happen before the tribulation. But after she read the book the King is Coming in the four chapters, he. She said, I don't know how. I cannot believe it because the Scripture is so clear about it. I love humility like that. I'm so proud of our team member. So anyway, hey, everybody, we're going to interrupt the conversation just briefly because we want to bring you a very important announcement. Look, America is turning 250 years old and let's remember the people who built it. It's the farmers, it's the pioneers. And I am so honored to be able to tell you about Good Ranchers. It is something that Lisa and I actually use and we have been using now for over a year. We are so delighted, Arden, that we get meat that is high, high quality, free from steroids, hormones, all that junk they put in. Good meat that is delivered right to our home every month. We don't have to go to the store anymore. So let's talk about this exactly which

B (10:02)

our boxes came in last week and we're all subscribers. And so right now they're offering up an amazing deal@goodranchers.com that when you order, you'll get free meat for life. So as you keep that subscription, you're going to get a random meat that they're sending to you and you get 25 off your first order on.

A (10:19)

How do they do this? They go to Good Ranchers.

B (10:21)

They go to goodranchers.com and they use the code Johan, not J O N J O H N. Good Ranchers. American Meat delivered.

A (10:33)

Reason number one, the bride, the church is not appointed to wrath. We see that over and over again. Number two, reason we talked about this is last podcast. So if you want to get it, go back and listen to last podcast. We discussed in the last podcast how the bride will be be hidden in the bridal chambers as recorded in Isaiah 26 during the seven year tribulation, just like the ancient Jewish wedding. Now let me say this. We're going to do everything we can to cover three points on this one. You know, so we've covered 1, 2, we're going to cover 3, 4 and 5, and then we'll do 6 and 7 on the next podcast. The first two points that we're going to talk about today, Arden, are going to actually set up the third. Okay, so let me just make that really clear. All right, here's reason number three, that I believe we will be caught away before the tribulation, the great tribute, the tribulation, seven years, the absence of the church in the book of Revelation. This is amazing. You see the church mentioned 19 times, 19 times in Revelation 1, 2 and 3. You don't hear about it again until Revelation 22. What's going on? Why the absence of the church? I mean, now you see the word saints.

B (11:45)

Yeah. Which, that, that's my question around. That is why is that not the church though then?

A (11:51)

Okay, so that would be the tribulation saints. And that is because many, many, many people are going to be saved in the tribulation. Jewish people. Paul tells us that when the gentlemen of the Gentiles is fulfilled, all of Israel is going to be saved. Okay. We are told that. So I believe it's going to be all the masses of Jews that really realize Jesus Christ is their Messiah, but it's also going to be Gentiles because I believe a mass amount of Gentiles are going to be saved during the Tribulation.

B (12:18)

He's saying all of Israel will be saved.

A (12:20)

All of. All of Israel. That's what Paul said. So clear in Romans chapter 9, 10 and 11. You have to read the three chapters to really grab it. But yes, all of Israel. And unfortunately, and this is really breaks my heart, Zechariah tells us that 2/3 will be put to death in the tribulation. 2/3 of Israel, only one third. And God said, I will bring that one third through the fire and I will refine them and purify them. But it's so exciting to me that the Jewish people are going to see that Jesus Christ is their Messiah, who we have worshiped. I mean, you know, I have a friend that one time he has helped Israel so much. And one time the prime minister of Israel looked at him and said, why? Why have you done this? Because they were, they were suspicious. They thought maybe do you have ulterior motives? And he said because a Jew gave his life for me. And that totally silenced the leaders of Israel that were still questioning his motives.

B (13:18)

Yeah, let me. And I know we've talked about this a couple of times, but the. When you're saying all of Israel be saved, is that. Or is that specifically a geographical breakdown in terms of the. The nation of Israel or is that a people?

A (13:35)

I believe it's the natural seed of Abraham.

B (13:37)

Natural.

A (13:38)

Whether they're in the United States, whether they're in Israel. Yeah, I believe it's the natural seed of Abraham. God still loves them. They're called the natural branch. In the book of Romans, we are called the wild olive branch. We were grafted in the Bible. Makes it so clear. Don't boast against. Don't boast. Don't think that you're something. Because God cut out the natural branch. He said, because God can cut you off and put that natural branch back in. So I always want to be the person that blesses the Jewish people. Anytime I meet a Jewish person, I go out of my way and to be kind, to love them, to be available to them if they have need. And. And I have so many friends, Arden, that are over in the nation of Israel right now, helping in so many ways. I think of the mistrettas over there. I think of others that have great churches over there. I'm so thankful because this man does not believe in replacement theology. And I will say that replacement theology is very dangerous. And if you've bought into that, please don't. Please, please don't. The Bible says that God will bless those who bless Jerusalem, who bless the people of God, and so keep blessing the Jewish people. Amen. All right, so also, it's both interesting to me and it's not coincidental that after Jesus talks to the seven churches of Asia. Let's talk about those seven churches really quick. We did an entire series, series on the podcast. I believe those churches represent those seven historic churches. I believe they also can represent the church from the time of Jesus until the catching away, which would make Laodicea the final one. But that could be possible. But I personally believe that each of those seven churches represent a condition of every church on the globe right now. Yeah, you have some persecuted churches which you see persecution in some of the churches. You have some churches that have allowed the opulence of their society to creep in and affect them negatively. You see some churches that have indifference right today. So I personally believe that, but it's not coincidental and it's not accidental that Revelation 4, verse 1, the very next verse, it says what, Arden? After these things.

B (15:59)

Things.

A (15:59)

I love how it says after these things. Jesus just given a full blown message to his church at large. After these things. I looked at, behold a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me saying, come up here. I personally believe that is the catching away of the church.

B (16:19)

Wow.

A (16:20)

I mean, it's just like Thessalonians. The Lord will descend with the voice of an archangel with the trump of God and the dead in Christ will be raised. And we who are alive and will be caught up together with him and meet the Lord with them and meet the Lord's in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Yeah. I believe this is a view of the catching away of the church.

B (16:42)

And that's the last time that you hear the church mentioned until later.

A (16:45)

On the church mentioned until Revelation 22 last time.

B (16:50)

Okay, so, okay, so as you're talking about this and obviously the church being removed, there's. There's obviously people who believe and can look at this and say, like, well, the reason why I don't believe that the church would be taken first is because of the escapism mentality and getting into that where. Or they're like, I hope that the church gets taken first because I want to escape these things. So what's the, you know, the thought process through that and combating maybe the escapism?

A (17:17)

And that's an outstanding point. And so let me make this, Let me make this point. Jesus actually says, pray that you'd be worthy to escape all these things. Jesus said that. Now, I am not preaching an escape mentality. Jesus is saying, pray that you escape these things because this is the wrath of God. Jesus said, in this world, you're going to have tribulation. We are looking at Christians being martyred all over the world right now. In fact, there have been more Christians martyred in the last hundred years than any hundred years in the history of the church. The church is being persecuted right now, even though I said, you know, the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. It seemed the more they martyred Christians in the book of Acts in the first three sess centuries, the more the church grew. Same thing is happening. I look at the believers that are being martyred in Iran. I look at the believers that are being martyred in Nigeria. The church is growing in those two nations, exploding. So the gates of hell are not prevailing against it. I believe these martyrs, their lives are seeds. And when the seed goes into the ground and dies, Jesus said, it doesn't abide alone. It produces a lot of grain. But tribulation, as Jesus said, in this world we have tribulation is the world's wrath against us. But the tribulation is God's wrath against a sinful world.

B (18:33)

Yeah.

A (18:34)

So therefore, why would God pour out his wrath when Jesus already took our wrath upon his body on that tree?

B (18:42)

Yeah. And I feel like it's going back to what we even talked about in the very beginning, where it's. If you're just living in this mentality of like, oh, the world's just getting darker and darker and I can't, like, I hope Jesus comes back so I can escape it, then you're probably living in a wrong way because you're not. Like, what you said and you frameworked is the tribulation that was taking Place and has we've seen this throughout history is actually something that leads to an advancing of the gospel and leads to an advancing of the church. And so if you're in this mentality of like, okay, I've got to shrink back because things are getting worse and worse, then the gospel is not being advanced. But if you understand that this is a natural tribulation that the world is bringing against itself, it's believers and bringing against Christ believers, then there's opportunity there. Like, there's persecution. And that persecution is going to lead to more salvation and more opportunities. And so you'll miss out. I think, like, that's the real. I feel like the real problem with escapism mentality is you'll miss out on the opportunity to advance the gospel in the day right now that we're living.

A (19:47)

So well said. And I agree. We right now, right now, present time are never to have escape mentality. We right now, present time, are to have an advancing the kingdom of God mentality. Jesus said, you'll receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. To do what? To preach the word of God locally, regionally and globally brokenhearted. And he has commanded us to occupy until we come. So in other words, let me just give you this, this kind of image. We are supposed to be busy, busy, busy, busy worker bees until the king comes and snatches us. But we don't slow down. We keep going. In fact, when you see the finish line coming and it's getting closer, you run faster. Just like a 5k race, you know, the. The last hundred meters of the 5000 meters. Last 100 meters is a sprint. You're running faster in that last hundred meters than you did the entire race. This is the way the church is supposed to be. We are not to have an escape mentality. Let's slow it down. Let's kind of avoid confrontation. No, we need to be people. The kingdom of heaven suffers violence. The violent take it by force. We have to have a violent love. A violent love that says, hey, I, as long as I'm here, I'm here to reach you. If you persecute me, fine. I'm still gonna love you. I'm still gonna preach the word of God to you. It doesn't matter what you do to me. It doesn't matter how unfairly you treat me. I choose to love you. I choose not to be offended. I choose to constantly exemplify, release the love of God to you by preaching his word so that you will not be caught in the wrath of God. Yeah. So I'm glad you actually stopped us in this conversation because, yes, that needs to be made abundantly clear. Jesus wasn't saying, hey, have an escape mentality and slow it down and kind of hide out until I come. Because he said, occupy until I come. So thank you for clarification on that. We're going to go to reason number four. You ready? Okay. And by the way, where is the church that seven years, I believe we sought in reason number two, which I'll have to listen to the last podcast. The church is in the bridal chamber in heaven with her groom. Okay, reason number four, the 24 elders. We got to talk about these 24 elders. Okay, now, who did John see in the throne room in Revelation 4 and 5 that are not found in any other description of God's throne in any other parts of the Bible? You have descriptions of his throne in Psalms, in Ezekiel. You have it in the book of Hebrews, Right? You have it in Isaiah. None of those places have these 24 elders. But in Revelation 4 and 5, member Revelation 4:1, after these things, I heard the trumpet, right? The voice of a trumpet. All of a sudden, now we got 24 elders. Who in the. Who are these guys? Okay, well, let's. Let's just prove it to you. Okay, I'm going to show you Hebrews account of the throne room. You ready for this? This is Hebrews 12, and if you have a Bible, I really want you to read along with me. I'm reading out of the NLT. Verse 22 says, you have come to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and countless thousands of angels in a joyful gathering. So first of all, we have countless thousands of angels. This is seen in all the other descriptions of the throne of God in the Bible. You have come to the assembly of God's firstborn children. It calls Jesus. Let me make this really clear. The firstborn from the dead. If there's a firstborn, there's a second born, there's a third born. You're in my numbers in there somewhere. Yeah, your numbers in there somewhere. But it's called the church of the Firstborn, meaning the church of Jesus Christ. So I believe this represents the spirits of the church of Jesus Christ. Then he continues, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God himself. So of course God's in heaven, who is the judge over all things. You have come to the spirits. This one's interesting. Of the righteous ones in heaven who have now been made perfect. That's the Old Testament saints. Okay, and then he said, you have come to Jesus. So you've got the angels, the Father, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and you've got the Old Testament saints and the New Testament saints in the book of Hebrews. Now, who are these 24 elders? All right, for the first time, this group shows up in all of scripture. There are two groups now in Revelation's description, Revelation 4 and 5 come, that are missing. Who are those two groups? The church of the firstborn and the spirits of just men made perfect.

B (24:52)

Okay, when you say the church of the firstborn, you're saying, who the church.

A (24:56)

Okay, so what I'm saying is you don't have this description that the Hebrews has. You have come to the church of the firstborn. It's not there anymore. And you don't have. In Revelation 4 and 5, the spirits have just been made perfect.

B (25:10)

Yeah.

A (25:11)

All of a sudden, this is what I believe. They become the 24 elders. Now, I'm going to tell you this is conjecture. I'm going to make this really, really clear. I believe there were 12 sons of Jacob, 12 tribes of Israel, and there were 12 apostles of the Lamb. You put those two together, you get 24.

B (25:34)

Okay, didn't Jacob, though, have 13 sons?

A (25:37)

He had 12.

B (25:38)

Well, I thought Joseph.

A (25:40)

Joseph had Manasseh and Ephraim, which got double. Each one was a half a tribe.

B (25:45)

Okay, you're right.

A (25:45)

Yes, good question.

B (25:46)

No, it's going off.

A (25:48)

So why did the 24 elders suddenly appear? They're not found in Ezekiel's, Isaiah's, or the Book of Hebrews or the psalmist versions of the throne room. And where did the two groups that I say go that are missing? I believe those two groups become the 24 elders. Now, and as I said, it's conjecture, but there's a reason that I strongly lean towards this. In other words, these 24 elders being the church and the Old Testament saints. If you look at the song that they sang in Revelation 5, it's amazing. They sang this. Only the 24 elders are singing this song. It's not the angels, just the 24 elders. They sang a new song saying, you are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slain and have redeemed us to God by your blood. Now listen to this. Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and have made us kings and priests to our God, and we shall reign on Earth. All right, there's four indicators here that show that this group is the Old New Testament saints. Number one, they said, you have redeemed Us to God. All right, now, before I go any further, unfortunately, there are some translations, the English Standard Version being one of them that translated redeemed them to God. All right, I, I, I, it's another translation said redeemed or ransomed people to God. However, let's look at the Greek word. The Greek word for us redeemed us to God. This is the new King James is hamas. H E M A s. This is its definition. It means our, it means us, it means we. It is not. It is to be distinguished from humas. H U M A s, which means your or yours. So the thing is, how come did they translate it for some reason, ransom people to God. Ransom them to God. When in reality you have a very specific Greek word that means our or we. So the church has been redeemed by the blood of Jesus, and this good news was preached to those who waited patiently in Abraham's bosom for the Messiah to come and sprinkle his blood on the mercy seat of God. Right? Yeah. If you, if you look at Luke 16, we see the Old Testament saints are in a place called Abraham's bosom. We see that the wicked of the Old Testament are in Hades. There was a place that the Old Testament saints who believed in the coming Messiah were reserved. And then once Jesus was raised from the dead, the Bible says he led captivity captive in Ephesians, chapter four. And first Peter tells us that Christ went into the center of the earth and preached the Gospel.

B (28:42)

Remember the saints to those in Abraham's bosom or to those in Hades?

A (28:47)

I believe both. And that's, that's a whole. Another whole podcast. All right, so now watch this. They said we were redeemed from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. There are 254 nations and territories. According to Google Maps, there are over 5,000 indigenous tribes. If these 24 elders are 24 individual people, how can they say we have been redeemed from every tribe, every tongue, every nation? Yeah, there's no way there's only 24. We need over 5,000. If they have been redeemed from every single tribe, so that, that there makes it abundantly clear. Number three, they have been made kings and priests unto God. In Scripture, there's only three groups of people that are called kings and priests. Two are individuals and one is a group. Okay, Number one will be Melchizedek. Melchizedek was called a priest of the most high God. The. That's in Hebrews 7.

B (30:03)

He's the high priest.

A (30:05)

Yeah, he was called the Priest of God. I don't think he was referred to as high priest. He was called priest of Salem, priest of the most high God. Okay.

B (30:13)

I thought he was the high priest because then Jesus is. Because it was a representation of Jesus basically in the Old Testament and he was the King of Salem, which means the King of peace. And then. Yet then Jesus goes and ascends and takes the place as the high priest in heaven. And so it's showing definitely called the High priest, but I'm saying it's a representation of. A lot of people believe that Melchizedek was embodiment of Jesus, but he wasn't

A (30:37)

from the Levitical priesthood. He didn't have genealogy. He had no mother, no father recorded.

B (30:43)

Yeah, but that's what I'm saying is that's why people think. Because even Abraham tithes to him.

A (30:47)

Yep. But he's called the Prince of Peace and the Prince of Salem, which Jesus

B (30:51)

is the Prince of Peace. So it's the connection right there is like you have Michael Zedesk, who's King of. Prince of. Or the King of Peace or King of Salem, which is King of Peace or Prince of Peace.

A (31:02)

Yeah.

B (31:02)

Then you have Jesus, who is called the Prince of Peace. So it's kind of. That's what I'm thinking of the high priests and the correlation, that's just what I've always thought is that Melchizedek, he's

A (31:10)

called without a doubt, priests of the most high God. So let's just leave it there for our. For our study sake. Correct. He's priest of the most high God,

B (31:17)

which I always think he's one of the most fascinating, like just fascinating characters.

A (31:22)

Oh, yes. Without a doubt.

B (31:24)

Shows up and.

A (31:24)

Yeah. And Abraham gives him a tenth of everything. Yep. All right, so Jesus Christ is of course called. He is called the High Priest.

B (31:32)

Yeah.

A (31:33)

Okay. And that's all over. That's Hebrews 3:1, Revelation 19:16.

B (31:38)

All right.

A (31:39)

The church is called Priests. If we look at Revelation 1:5 and 6, to him who loved us and washed us from our sins by his own blood, and has made us, the church, kings and priests to his God and Father. So in Revelation 1, the church is called priests of God.

B (31:58)

Yeah.

A (31:59)

Now we've got these 24 elders. We have. Okay. Revelation 1. Then we have Revelation 4:1, which is the catching away, I believe. Then we got these elders who show up all of a sudden for the first time in the throne room in the whole Bible. And they said, you've made us kings and priests. Number four. I love this one. They said, we, the 24 elders say we shall reign on earth. Can I read Hebrews 2?

B (32:23)

Yeah.

A (32:24)

Hebrews 2 says, and furthermore, it is not angels who will control the future world we are talking about. For one place in scripture says what is mere mortals that you should think about them. It is so clear that the church is the bride that's going to reign with her groom on this earth in this world to come. And that angels. He just says it. Angels will not be ruling. It will be our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, with us ruling alongside of him. They said, the 24 elders, we shall reign on earth. So you have the correlation.

B (33:03)

Yeah. Right. Is there any correlation in terms of the tower of Babel and the dividing of man and God saying like I've now given authority to different regions of to man in these 24 elders. And I know that's kind of.

A (33:18)

If you go back to the beginning, God gave Adam and Eve dominion.

B (33:22)

Yep.

A (33:22)

He's dominion over. And this is repeated in Psalm 8. This is repeated in Hebrews chapter 2. The fact that God gave man dominion over the works of his hands.

B (33:32)

Yeah.

A (33:32)

On this earth. And so again, I think it's magnet fascinating that forever and ever and ever it's not going to be angels that are ruling, it's going to be Jesus and his bride that are ruling forever and ever and ever.

B (33:48)

Yeah.

A (33:49)

Is so fascinating. So what God originally intended in the beginning. So here comes the devil. He interrupts God's plan, it looks like. No, he doesn't. He's actually in the wisdom of God said, I'm going to pull out of people that have been tested, who will be trustworthy, who will rule and reign with my son forever and ever and ever. Yeah, but it's going to go back to where it was in the beginning. And that is God declared right from the beginning that man was created in his image and his likeness and that they should have dominion over the works of his hands.

B (34:19)

Correct.

A (34:19)

So it is going to be man that has dominion in the world to come in the ages to come. Yeah. It should be Jesus and his bride ruling because the fathers entrusted that authority and he's not revoking it. It's so beautiful. Okay, all right, so there's actually one more. Can I point out one more? All right. Instantly. I was in the spirit. John said this. Revelation 4:2 through 4. And I saw the throne in heaven and someone sitting on it. 24 Thrones surrounded him and 24 elders sat on each of them. They were all clothed in white and had gold crowns on Their heads. Who wears white? Revelation 19:7 and 8. For the time has come for the wedding feast of the Lamb, and his bride has prepared herself. She has been given free finest of pure white linen to wear. The saints are wearing the pure white linen. And if you look at who wears the crowns, Paul said, and now the prize awaits me. The crown of righteousness, which the Lord the righteous judge, will give me on the day of his return. And that prize is not just for me, but for all who eagerly look forward to his appearing. That's why we're so eagerly looking forward to his appearing on this podcast. So here's the amazing aspect. These elders appear before any of the wrath of God is poured out. The first seal hadn't even been broken yet. All right, why is this? Just as the prophet Isaiah declared, we are hidden, the bride is hidden in the wedding chamber before the indignation is poured out.

B (35:51)

Wow.

A (35:52)

Because it is chapter six. You got four and five. It's a scene in heaven. Chapter six is when the first seal is broken. And we've already seen the elders. They've already established who they are. So again, that shows the church will not be here even when the first seal is open.

B (36:12)

And then you. And then I love that you highlighted because it obviously talks about specifically that they're carrying the bowls full of incense, which is the prayers of the saints. Is that specifically referencing the saints of the people that are getting saved in the tribulation in the prayers that.

A (36:27)

I don't know.

B (36:28)

Don't know.

A (36:28)

Okay, it's a good question, though. Yeah, it's a really good question, but I don't have the answer to that one. That's good. All right, so now we come to number five. Yeah. Now, remember what we just established in points three and four. Now give credence and strength to point number five.

B (36:45)

Come.

A (36:46)

And point number five basically is we're going to ask, who is this restrainer? All right, and let me, let me, Let me set it up. All right. The church in Thessalonica, they were troubled because some teachers, they were a baby church. Some teachers came in and said that the day of the Lord was already happening. Well, if the day of the Lord was already happening, they're thinking, well, then those who had died were already resurrected. Did we miss it?

B (37:15)

Yeah.

A (37:16)

So Paul has to come in in second Thessalonians and correct what these teachers did by saying, hey, we're already in the day of the Lord. So in other words, here's these teachers teaching, you're going through the tribulation those who had died before in Christ are not going through it. They've already been resurrected. Yeah.

B (37:33)

Which the tribulation was so intense that obviously they could have a justify feel like, yeah, this is tribulation.

A (37:41)

And that's why I feel so bad for people who believe in mid trib and post trib because it's not scriptural. I mean, it's bravery. I love the fact that they're willing to efface anything and that is commendable. But I feel sorry that God has made it so clear as we go through these regions or reasons from scripture that they're hanging on to the fact that they think that, well, this is just devised in the 1800s and it's just, you know, there's a segment in the church and, and believe it, which,

B (38:12)

I mean, can you go a little bit deeper into that? Because I will, when I get to

A (38:16)

the early church fathers, I will.

B (38:17)

Okay. And just to clarify, what I'm asking you to go deeper onto is that the rapture largely was that people believe it was devised in podcast.

A (38:25)

I don't want to touch the surprise on that. But, but it's a teaser.

B (38:29)

Yes.

A (38:29)

So make sure you don't you get 0.6 and 7 because that's. We're covering that in the next, next podcast. All right, so basically Paul said to this young church that's so confused right now because of the teachers that came in and said, hey, we're already in the day of the Lord. And remember, remember, Let me make this really clear. When you see the day of the Lord in scripture, it's talking about the seven year tribulation. That, that, that is proven. I could give you scriptures on that, but we did that on a different podcast. Second Thessalonians, chapter two, verses three and four. Now you're going to understand the context of what Paul is saying to this young baby church. Let no one deceive you by any means. For that day, the day of the Lord, the seven year tribulation will not come unless the falling away comes first and the man of sin is revealed. So in other words, no tribulation, no great tribulation. No tribulation. I should say seven year tribulation until the man of sin is revealed and there's a great falling away. That's people that fall away from the faith. And we have seen millions walk away from the faith in America in the last 25 years. All right, the man of sin is revealed, the Son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all. That is called God or that is worshiped so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Two things, two things again. Apostasy. And the man of sin who is called the Antichrist, he is referred to as the beast, the son of perdition. He's called the wicked one, the lawless one. He has, I think, 13 names in the Bible, but it's all the same guy, all right? He is the perfect antithesis of Jesus Christ. Just as Jesus was filled with the spirit of God without measure, this guy's gonna be filled with the spirit of Satan without measure. Okay, Things to note about him. His reveal is going to occur at the very beginning of the seven years when he strikes a covenant of pe with Israel. So he's going to say, hey, here's a covenant I'm making with you. There's going to be total peace for seven years. Now, I believe in that. Three and a half years or before. Then we're already going to see the temple being reconstructed. All right? He's going to make a peace treaty with them. He's going to confirm the covenant. The Bible actually says in Daniel 9, he's going to confirm the covenant, not establish the covenant. Confirm the covenant. In other words, the covenant was already. The peace treaty was already put in place. So what we see right now going on could possibly be. Could possibly be, you know, what is it called that the nations are starting? It's called the Board of Peace. And United states gave like $18 billion to it or 12 billion or 10 billion. I'm not right. But President Trump said this. He said that's a small price to pray pay compared to a full blown war because in two weeks you're going to spend $10 billion. That's what President Trump said. Right? So all these nations are coming together and they're establishing this Board of Peace. Now this guy comes in and he confirms the covenant. You got to go to daniel9 to see this. He confirms the covenant of many. So you got these nations coming together because remember, before Jesus comes, they said there's going to be peace and safety. They say they, not we. He says, brethren, you need to know this. When they say that means society says peace and safety. So this Board of Peace, I mean, I'm really thinking this is going to be a very successful endeavor. And when they say, finally we got peace, which that word, peace and safety, it's really interesting if you go into the original words, it actually means a secure system has been established to keep peace. I mean, this is amazing. Okay, so he's going to confirm for seven more years. Right. And. Oh, I actually had this. All right, the ruler will confirm the covenant. Now I'm reading from the new King James. He will confirm the covenant of many for a period of one set of seven, but half, but after half this time. So three and a half years into it, he'll put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. So in other words, they're going to have this temple. They're going to start sacrifices and offering. Which, by the way, Arden, do you know that they have already trained the priests? They already have the garments, they already had the ephod, they already have all the instruments of worship.

B (43:06)

It's all been made, you're saying right now, in Israel.

A (43:09)

Right now. And they actually have heifers. All right, that they brought over from Texas. However, I think those heifers have been now disqualified and they're going to bring this thing underground. In other words, they're not going to let us know what they're doing. But remember, to reestablish the priestly order according to the. According to the Pentateuch, you have to do the sacrifice of a red heifer. And that red heifer can't have one black hair on him. It's got to be a completely red colored cow.

B (43:41)

Wow.

A (43:41)

And they had five of them brought over to Israel and they were disqualified. And yeah, to my latest findings, they've now been disqualified. I hope not. I hope that part's wrong. But they had the red heifers, they had all the instruments of worship, everything. And this guy's going to come in three and a half years into the tribulation, he's going to put an end to the sacrifices and offerings, and as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, which Jesus refers to, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him. All right, so how is such a wicked man going to fool the Jewish people? He's going to.

B (44:24)

He's going to fool in the whole world, essentially.

A (44:26)

It's going to be amazingly good. There's an entire book that I wrote years ago called Good or God. And I found out this came out of a prayer when I thought something was good and God said it was evil.

B (44:40)

Yeah.

A (44:40)

And in that prayer, God said, there is a good that is very rebellious to me. And it reminded me that Eve was drawn to the good side of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This guy's going to be so Good. The world's going to buy into him hook, line and sinker. Yeah, right. Okay. Not, not the saints will be gone. Okay.

B (44:59)

Okay. So that, that's, that's post.

A (45:03)

Yes.

B (45:03)

Okay.

A (45:04)

Okay. It literally is the time clock of the tribulation. The moment he confirms the covenant of many. The moment he does it, the seven year tribulation has begun. Which is another reason why I believe you can't have a post tribulation rapture, because now you've got seven years.

B (45:22)

So there's no. The saints are not around when the Antichrist makes himself known, not even when he's starting to work in the scenes.

A (45:30)

He could be behind the scenes. I actually believe he's alive today. He might be an 18 year old young man. He might be a 7 year old man. I believe he's alive today because Jesus said that generation will not pass until all these things come true. And he's talking about Israel being restored as a nation and Jerusalem being taken back and that now that it's not being trampled by Gentiles, which means ruled by gentiles. And that didn't happen until 67. So if you look at it, if you look at the time period, a generation could be as much as 100 years. It's all the people living in a generation at one time. I believe between now and 2075, we're going to see the return of Jesus.

B (46:09)

Wow.

A (46:09)

So that tells me the Antichrist could be a baby, that he's probably alive on the earth.

B (46:13)

Well, part of your message is so much that like Jesus's return, he's delayed his return. Why? So that, yeah, all may be saved. And so part of that though is a huge emphasis that you put into, of the preparation of the church. So do you feel like though, when you're kind of saying in this lifetime, you know, bringing that into the 77s and I know that you're kind of emphasizing the timeline, but then also the preparation in the state of the church. Like how much factors comes into those two things where it's like it's God's desire that all may be saved. And there's been a restraining, the restraining force that we're even talking about. But then the actual timeline that you're even showing in here because I think there's some people that believe like, no, Jesus is not going to come back until what, what you've always, what you've talked about and you emphasize so much. His bride is ready. It's the preparation of the bride. But then there's actually though the timeline that you also talk about, where it's the. Hey, this is what the Jewish calendar is showing. This is what this is looking like. So where's the balance between those two?

A (47:20)

God knows the end from the beginning. And God gives us a timeline. Hosea makes it so clear. After two days, I'll revive the Jewish nation.

B (47:27)

Yeah.

A (47:28)

Third day, I'll raise you all up so that you can live in my sight. Which is the thousand year millennial reign. Remember Peter said, don't forget a day with the Lord's a thousand years. Yeah. So it's seven day. Seven days basically is cre is mankind is on the earth in this time. Six of these days, we're at the very end of the sixth day. So God establishes that. But I personally believe we're going to see one of the greatest moves of God's spirit that we have ever seen. It's called the latter rain.

B (47:58)

Yeah.

A (47:58)

Of God's spirit. And, and they're going to be a multitude to get saved. And I believe that's going to happen before the catching away of the church. That I'm going to be really honest with you. That's what I'm looking for. Yeah. I'm looking for the greatest move of God's spirit that the earth has ever seen. And what I'm seeing in this generation, this generation would carry it. This generation, I'm Talking about the 18 to 25 year olds right now. They would die for their faith. They would give their life. They are willing to give their life for their faith. I haven't seen a group of young men and women like this in my lifetime. Now it's not just sons and daughters. I think it's starting with sons and daughters.

B (48:39)

Yeah.

A (48:40)

But it's going to be men, servants and maidservants. So you and I are included in that.

B (48:43)

Yeah.

A (48:43)

Thank God.

B (48:44)

Okay.

A (48:45)

But I think that's what I'm really looking for. I'm looking for the Elijah. Knowing that will call the lost in the church back to Jesus. Okay. Just like John the Baptist went to lost sheep of the house of Israel. He didn't go to the Gentiles, he went to lost sheep and he called them back. He said, hey, don't think to say you got Abraham as your father. God can raise up children from stones who will be children of Abraham. I believe this young generation are going to go in the spirit and power of Elijah. And I believe they're going to call the lost sheep and the church back because it's not God's will. As you said. That any should Paris, once you get into the tribulation, it's amazing to me. Four times. Four times.

B (49:27)

Yeah.

A (49:29)

God's pouring out this wrath. I mean, it's horrific. I mean, like unbelievable. Like, we've never seen anything like it. And the Bible says they still. They refuse to repent of their sins and turn to God.

B (49:43)

Yeah.

A (49:44)

Four times. It says it in the book of Revelation. Go look it up. Twice in Revelation 9, twice in Revelation 16. Four times.

B (49:51)

Yeah.

A (49:52)

All right. Which means. That means their heart is so hardened against God, they're literally seeing what is written come to pass in front of their eyes, and they're still hardened against God.

B (50:02)

Well, I think that's my question. In the correlation even right there is. I'm obviously first thinking about Pharaoh and like his heart being hardened and all of these things are taking place, and yet he's still saying, I'm not going to let your people go. So in that, is it just that the hearts have been hardened so much over time in a lawless state? Yeah, because with Pharaoh, it's like the Bible even says, God hardened Pharaoh's heart. And so it's not so much like that.

A (50:27)

There are some that would say God allowed it to be hardened.

B (50:29)

Yeah.

A (50:30)

The hardening of hearts, you know. Yeah. There would. Some that argue. And this is. This is something I'm open to, and I'm not going to boldly declare this. There are some that say that the hardening of hearts is something that naturally occurs in a man's fallen state.

B (50:48)

Yeah.

A (50:48)

Which I would. Man said, I don't want God right from the beginning. Our sin nature will eventually go to its hardened state. Yeah. Other people say God actually hardened their heart. And I'm not. That is not one I'm going to debate. I actually can see both sides, so I'm not going to boldly declare that. But we got to get back on task because we're talking about this restrainer.

B (51:10)

That's what I was going to ask you because I talked to you, I asked you this question in the beginning is who is the Restrainer?

A (51:14)

All right, so in. In this, we see two things about the Restrainer here. Number one, he's holding back the secret power of lawlessness. Number two, he's keeping the restrainer, is keeping the Antichrist from being revealed. So who is this Restrainer? Rick Renner writes the Greek words to describe this restrainer in verse 6 and 7 are both neuter and masculine in the original text. This implies that the identity of the restrainer may be a thing, a person or both. All right. In order for the restrainer to hold back the secret power of lawlessness, he or it would have to be in all sectors of society.

B (51:56)

Wow.

A (51:56)

Okay. Can you imagine if you just take the church out of society, what would happen?

B (52:01)

Yeah.

A (52:01)

Can you imagine if you take the Holy Spirit out of society, what would happen? Okay, so these are the two that people debate on. Some people believe it's the Holy Spirit. I don't believe it's the Holy Spirit. And I'm very strong in this. I will debate this. The Bible says nobody can confess that Jesus is the Christ. Without the Holy Spirit, there are going to be a massive amount of people saved in the tribulation. So if you remove the Holy Spirit, how do people get saved in the tribulation? Yeah. All right. I believe it is the body of Christ member. It can be an it, a he, or both. I believe it's the body of Christ or the Church. Because again, think about, if we pull every bit of the church out of all sectors of society, you won't have a red Cross. You won't have nursing homes. You won't have. You'll have people. You'll have. The world's going to put older people to death. They're not going to put them into retirement homes. They're not going to put them in hospice. They. They're going to just let him. Because utter selfishness will rule and reign. And so what. What gives us a red Cross? What gives us all these, you know, nursing homes? These. It's the compassion of God in his people.

B (53:14)

Yeah.

A (53:14)

And you pull the church out and your world goes to utter darkness, like at the speed of light, almost. That's probably a bad example. But rapidly it plunges into utter darkness.

B (53:27)

Yeah. I think my question around that, too is like. Because I kind of think back to what C.S. lewis talked about in this Mere Christianity book where he talks about. And he's. I think he breaks down. He starts with the, the. The law of nature. And he goes into, like, kind of what the human nature is. And he's going. And he's kind of arguing these points as he's coming into Christianity. And. Because when, when I hear you say that, it's like, okay, well then is that just meaning people as a whole are just inherently bad? And so you remove the church entirely from it. And so the, the, the law of nature, the, the, you know, just the good essentially is pulled from society as a whole. And so then you have people that don't have a compass, a moral compass, essentially, anymore.

A (54:13)

Yeah.

B (54:13)

Because Their, their, their nature is not that. And it's like almost the church has created a moral compass that the world has been honestly just living off of for year, you know, thousands upon thousands of years. And so then you remove that moral compass completely out of the mix.

A (54:30)

And then the Dark Ages, that's why people went so corrupt so fast. Yeah, right.

B (54:36)

The, the. Wait, can you expand on? The church went to sleep in the Dark Ages.

A (54:39)

Yeah. Remember the parable of the virgins while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

B (54:43)

Yeah.

A (54:44)

Church was in the Dark Ages. There were very few believers that really were believers. It was basically, you know, when, when, when. Oh, gosh, in 15, was it 15? I know that I'd known this for years and it's escaped me when Luther pounded his 99 thesis is on the door. That was the beginning of the church coming out of the Dark Ages because it was all about endowments. It was all about you had to confess your sin to a mortal man at a confessional. You had to bring money to pay to get you out of tribulation. I mean, we. Darkness. And that's why things were so corrupt in that time period.

B (55:22)

When was the Crusades too.

A (55:24)

It was in the Dark Ages.

B (55:25)

Dark Ages. So, yeah, the Church had been so

A (55:27)

corrupted, even so corrupt. Yeah. Right. But now it's been like, you've got the Luthers, then you got the Wesley's, the Whitfields, and you just see, you know, then, then, then you've got the Finnies, you've got the Spurgeons, you've got all these moves of God that kept bringing us back, restoring back what was lost in the early Church. So you see the early church gradually declining. We go into the Dark Ages now. It's gradually building back up. And today it's, like I said, I'm looking for the greatest move of God that we've ever seen. So again, why I believe the restrainer is the church is. Jesus said, I'll build my church. He said, I'll build my church. And the powers of hell will not conquer it. All right, that's Matthew 16, all right. The church can't be conquered. However, this is quite amazing. In the book of Daniel and in the book of Revelation, we read that the Antichrist is given authority to do whatever he wants for 42 months. And the beast was allowed to wage war against God's holy people. This is Revelation 13. And to conquer them. Now, there, there appears to be a contradiction here. The gates of hell will not conquer it. Yeah. And Then it says heaven allows the Antichrist to conquer the people of God. It's the new, it's the Tribulation saints. It's the Jewish people and the Gentiles that get saved in the Tribulation. The church is gone. And if you look in the book of Daniel, Daniel says this. He will try to change their sacred festivals and laws and they will be placed under his control. The church has never been under anybody's control but the body, but the Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God. But Daniel 7:25 says they will be placed under his control for times, times and half a time, that's three and a half years. Daniel 8:24 says he will become very strong, not only by his own power. He will cause a shocking amount of destruction and succeed in everything he does. He will destroy powerful leaders and devastate the holy people. Okay, so here we go. So this is why Jesus says, pray that your flight is on the Sabbath, because the holy people he's talking about is the Jewish people. He is going to be ruthless with them the last three and a half years. And that's what Zechariah was talking about when he said two thirds of the people of Israel would be, would die and one third would go through purification. It's the purification of the tremendous, tremendous persecution that the Antichrist, the last three and a half years of the Tribulation is going to launch on the people of God. Here's the closing thought. I've said a lot, you've said a lot. But it's covered in so much more detail in the King is Coming. And I mean I give all the scriptures in Daniel. I just basically mentioned a couple that show how he devastates the people of God, how he conquers the people of God. And it's all in here, including the wrath of God Scriptures on the wrath of God. So you can take time and you can go through it and remember the book is written in such a way that it's easy to go through. I made it a 28 day book which is four weeks. There's four sections of seven chapters. So you do one chapter a day for seven days, then you go to the next section, one chapter a day for seven days. It's also got a devotional and it's a great book to do with your friends. So if you haven't gotten yours, just go to Amazon, go to Barnes and Noble, it's in Walmart, it's in every, basically every place Christian books are sold. You can get the King is Coming. I encourage you to do so. Because the thing we want to do is we want to be ready. When Jesus comes to catch away his bride, there will be people that are in the organized church that are not ready. I mean, it's so heartbreaking. But Jesus actually forewarns this in the parable of the Virgins. They're not going to be ready. They won't have oil in their vessels. This the reason Art and I are working so diligently. Our team here works so diligently to get these messages to you is because I believe the hour is very, very late. We're approaching the midnight hour, and I don't want to see you without oil. I don't want to see you ashamed when he appears in that sky. I believe you're going to be ready. And that's why we're doing this. That's why I wrote this book. There's such an urgency in my spirit. I've never had this in 40, 43 years of ministry, I've never had this kind of urgency. And so I believe this is the time to get busy, to get active in the Kingdom service and to make sure you're walking a godly life. Don't forget, if you're new to our podcast and you want to become a patron, a supporter, I believe we have this course, A Heart Ablaze. Is it for only people to support or. It's for everybody.

B (60:41)

It's for everyone.

A (60:41)

For everyone. That's. I was hoping you were going to say that. It is for you. It's for everyone. It is a great compliment. You will find so much in this course that is not in the book. It's a wonderful compliment for you and your friends or you by yourself, to go through. So until next time, this has been Arden Bevere and John Bevere, and we wish you a very blessed day.