1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Jordan Harbinger Show - Episode 1130: "Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday"

Release Date: March 21, 2025

In this episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show, host Jordan Harbinger delves into the segment known as Feedback Friday, where he and his producer Gabriel Mizrahi address listener letters offering advice on various personal and relational challenges. This episode tackles five distinct letters, each presenting unique dilemmas, ranging from marital support and family conflicts to addiction and career struggles. Below is a comprehensive summary of each discussion, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps for reference.

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1. Supporting a Wife with Grand Dreams

Listener Letter at [12:39]

Summary:
The first letter comes from a listener seeking guidance on how to support his wife, who harbors ambitious and seemingly unattainable dreams across multiple fields such as medicine, politics, art, and entertainment. His wife’s dreams are described as grandiose, leading him to struggle with guiding her through realistic steps toward achieving them without discouraging her spirit.

Discussion Points:

• Understanding Grandiosity: Jordan and Gabriel explore whether the wife’s grand dreams are a manifestation of resilience against a painful past or indicative of a deeper disconnect from reality.
• Balancing Support and Reality: They discuss the fine line between encouraging aspirations and addressing potential delusions, emphasizing the need for patience and empathetic communication.
• Actionable Advice: Gabriel suggests a compassionate approach, encouraging the husband to validate his wife's dreams while gently steering her towards focusing on one or two achievable goals.

  Gabriel Mizrahi: “Tell her that you're still on her team, but be prepared for any number of responses and then hang in there with her.” [22:02]

Notable Quotes:

• Jordan Harbinger: “There is a difference between a dream and a delusion, between an aspiration and a fantasy.” [20:46]
• Gabriel Mizrahi: “It might be a powerful way for her to maybe compensate for the childhood she had to sustain ego strength to enjoy a life she'll probably never get to live, if only in her mind.” [18:32]

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2. Navigating Family Conflict at an Indian Wedding

Listener Letter at [28:25]

Summary:
A listener describes the turmoil surrounding his upcoming wedding, rooted in cultural expectations from his first-generation Indian immigrant family. The primary conflict arises from his cousin introducing her disapproved boyfriend, leading to family drama and stress about maintaining a harmonious wedding environment.

Discussion Points:

• Cultural Pressures: Jordan acknowledges the intense cultural significance of weddings in Indian families and the challenges that come with balancing personal desires against familial expectations.
• Setting Boundaries: The importance of establishing clear boundaries with family members to protect the couple’s special day is emphasized.
• Conflict Resolution: Gabriel advises standing firm in their decision to invite the cousin’s boyfriend, suggesting a respectful yet assertive communication strategy to mitigate drama.

  Gabriel Mizrahi: “Your decision to pull back and draw boundaries is exactly the right one.” [36:32]

Notable Quotes:

• Jordan Harbinger: “They are entitled to have whatever feelings they have, but that does not mean that they need or should feel the permission to express them on a day that is not about them.” [30:13]
• Gabriel Mizrahi: “You have to set boundaries and protect your day here.” [36:32]

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3. Overcoming Porn Addiction and Marital Trust Issues

Listener Letter at [39:24]

Summary:
The third letter details a man’s struggle with porn addiction, deception, and the subsequent impact on his marriage. After a period of separation due to dishonesty, his wife returns with the condition of total honesty, but ongoing financial strains and recurring lapses in overcoming addiction continue to strain the relationship.

Discussion Points:

• Addiction and Trust: Jordan and Gabriel dissect the complexities of addiction’s effects on trust and the arduous path to rebuilding a relationship marred by deceit.
• Active Steps Toward Recovery: Emphasis is placed on the necessity of tangible actions beyond verbal apologies, such as seeking therapy and addressing financial mismanagement.
• Personal Growth vs. Relationship Repair: They highlight that individual healing is crucial and that the husband must prioritize his recovery to mend the marriage effectively.

  Jordan Harbinger: “What are you doing about any of this? Are you going to Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous or another support group like that and talking about the porn addiction?” [40:44]

Notable Quotes:

• Jordan Harbinger: “Are you going to therapy and talking about why it's hard for you to be consistently honest about stuff that's uncomfortable?” [40:47]
• Gabriel Mizrahi: “Until you do that, I'm not sure that getting your wife back is really going to even fix anything.” [42:27]

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4. Esthetician Facing Economic and Industry Challenges

Listener Letter at [50:51]

Summary:
An esthetician in her early 20s shares her struggles with declining income due to economic downturns and evolving industry standards. She faces job insecurity, increased competition from unlicensed practitioners, and the daunting task of self-promotion in a saturated market, all while managing personal financial responsibilities.

Discussion Points:

• Industry Decline: The guest describes the hardships faced by small, family-owned spas amidst economic instability and regulatory pressures.
• Career Pivot or Adaptation: Jordan and Gabriel offer two main pathways: adapting within the beauty industry by niche specialization or considering a complete career change.
• Support Systems and Networking: Emphasis on leveraging professional networks and seeking mentors to navigate industry challenges and uncover new opportunities.

  Gabriel Mizrahi: “You might find something great. It might mean building more relationships at other spas and practices, maybe finding one that pays better or doesn't do commissions.” [54:07]

Notable Quotes:

• Jordan Harbinger: “One huge bright spot in your letter, and that is you. Honestly, you sound like an extraordinary employee, a really solid person.” [55:08]
• Gabriel Mizrahi: “Maybe you partner with other businesses, I don't know, a wedding planner, a wellness center, a hotel or something.” [55:26]

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5. Couple Contemplating Parenthood Amidst Mixed Feelings

Listener Letter at [67:37]

Summary:
The final letter comes from a couple living in Central Europe who have frozen embryos but are hesitant to proceed with parenthood due to mixed emotions and fears. While the husband fears regretting not having children, the wife fears resenting them, compounded by lack of a supportive network and concerns about lifestyle changes.

Discussion Points:

• Emotional Dilemmas: Jordan and Gabriel explore the internal conflicts of wanting children for different reasons and the potential impact on the relationship and future family life.
• Evaluating Motivations: They stress the importance of understanding the true motivations behind wanting children to ensure the decision aligns with both partners’ desires and readiness.
• Practical Considerations: Discussion on financial stability, support systems, and personal readiness as critical factors in the decision-making process.

  Jordan Harbinger: “But look, if you decide to do it, you have to be willing to accept that it's less about finding a way to minimize the burden and more about embracing it as an essential part of the experience.” [69:43]

Notable Quotes:

• Jordan Harbinger: “If you decide to do it, you have to be willing to accept that it's less about finding a way to minimize the burden and more about embracing it as an essential part of the experience.” [69:43]
• Gabriel Mizrahi: “I would really want to explore that feeling before you commit. What specifically would make you resentful?” [72:28]

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Conclusion and Recommendations

Throughout Feedback Friday, Jordan Harbinger and Gabriel Mizrahi provide empathetic, nuanced advice tailored to each listener’s predicament. They emphasize the importance of communication, setting boundaries, personal growth, and practical action steps in overcoming challenges. The episode underscores the complexities of interpersonal relationships, personal struggles, and the pursuit of meaningful life decisions.

Additional Highlights:

• Listener Engagement: Jordan encourages listeners to engage with their experiences and apply the discussed strategies to their own lives.
• Community Resources: References to additional episodes and resources are provided for listeners seeking deeper insights into similar issues.

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Notable Overall Quotes:

• Jordan Harbinger: “Remember, we rise by lifting others.” [Throughout the episode]
• Gabriel Mizrahi: “You're a champ. I'm not saying those are sustainable strategies. I'm not sure they're actually working. But someone else in your shoes might just throw up their hands and complain and expect the world to solve their problems.” [55:18]

This episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show offers valuable perspectives and actionable advice for listeners grappling with personal and relational challenges, fostering a supportive environment for growth and resolution.

Transcript

[Jordan Harbinger]

This episode is sponsored in part by Mint Mobile. You know how those big wireless companies always find a way to squeeze every last dime out of you? Like, hey, here's your bill and surprise, there's an extra fee for existing. It's ridiculous. That's one reason we finally tried Mint Mobile. The other reason is because they paid us handsomely to do so. But Mint Mobile starts at just 15 bucks a month, so you won't have to pay handsomely to try it out. That includes high speed data, unlimited talk and text. And it runs on the nation's largest 5G network. Mint Mobile is significantly cheaper than our old carrier. They do keep the cost down because you prepay for 3, 6, 12 months, whatever, and they make it really easy. You can keep your current phone, you don't have to upgrade anything. You keep your number, you keep all your contacts. You just pop in their SIM or ESIM and you're good to go. No more surprise fees or overages. Just simple, affordable premium service. So if you're ready to say goodbye to overpriced wireless bills, Mint Mobile's got you covered. And right now, you can get three months of premium wireless for just 15 bucks a month. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] jhs that's mintmobile.com jhs upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to 15 bucks per month new customer offer for first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer. The gratuity included notice at the bottom of the bill you're given after dining at this auditory smorgasbord of life advice. Gabriel Mizrahi.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

25%, I hope.

[Jordan Harbinger]

25, yeah. You know, okay. I should speak for myself. For me, it's offensive when one somebody asked me for a tip and I basically walked up to a counter and they took my order and that was it.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

That's no common gripe in today's common gripe.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, perhaps less common gripe. There's a couple restaurants around here that shall remain nameless unless they pay for the sponsorship on this show. But they will do this thing where you get service. Okay, fine. And the tip choices are 18, 22 and 25%. And what's weird is it's not in any sort of order that you would expect, right? It's not like 18 left, 22 middle 25 right. It's like 25 left, 18 in the middle 22. And you're like, wait a minute, wait a minute, I'm onto you. You're just trying to get people who are not paying attention in our inner hurry to hit 25% as quickly as possible. Now, I'm sympathetic to the plight of the server. I think they should be paid a living wage. Stop trying to trick me into paying them for that level of service. And it's always the places where the service is not that good. I will tip you 22, 20 whatever percent if the service is really good at a nice place. If I have to go get the refills myself and I'm getting kicked out of the kitchen by the manager because I've walked back there twice to find a person who freaking works here. I am not going to tip you 25%. I'm just not going to do it. I know you're overworked and that's why you didn't come to my table. That's not my fault. What are we talking about again?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I don't know, but I'm really enjoying this stand up rant of yours. This is a great special. Five stars.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, it's as funny as the other crap that's been on Netflix lately. All right. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. Tipflation. That's what it's called. Tipflation. Where it just keeps going up but their wages stay constant. So we're just subsidizing everything. Just put it in the price of the food. During the week we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from mafia enforcers and arms dealers, rocket scientists, four star generals, Hollywood filmmakers. This week on the show we had Russ Swain. He was a good little Mormon boy art student who became a masterful counterfeiter of US Currency. We also had a skeptical Sunday on sextortion. Those scams where people try to tell you that they have pictures of you doing something naughty. It's happened to me. It's happened to a lot of people with disastrous results, unfortunately in some cases, especially among teens. Definitely a PSA and very important episode as well. Go ahead and listen to those if you haven't had a chance to do so yet. On Fridays though, we take listener letters Offer advice and share random stories from our lives. Speaking of which, Gabe, Jen and I took the kids to Disneyland the other week.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yes. You guys had a good time, huh?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Man. First of all, peak capitalism. Holy moly. You have to be zen with just knowing you are going to get bent over. It's over when you walk in there. And I was like, let's just get a quick lunch on the first day. And I ordered a burger and it wasn't that good. And the fries were cold and the kids had chicken tenders. And the bill was like $200, dude. Because the burger was 40 bucks, dude. Whoa. And I was like, 40 buc. They're like, it's a wagyu burger. I'm like, this is worse than any ground chuck crap I've ever had. Thanks for the pickles. Or whatever that I'm sure are gourmet, but this is legit. Like something that was under a heat lamp for an hour.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Isn't it crazy? That place is a profit machine.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Capitalism extravaganza. Everywhere you turn, there's another way for them to extract money from you. You have to kind of marvel at it, but it's disturbing.

[Jordan Harbinger]

You do. There was places where you can buy pins, which by the way, are like 16 bucks. Just little pins. And you can trade them and it's a whole thing. And there were these wristbands that looked like watches. And I was like, what are these? And they go, oh. If you have a lightning lane pass, you can buy one of these and you can hold it up instead of scanning your phone. So people pay $40 for a star wars theme, Mickey Mouse theme, whatever it is. Band to ride the rides faster.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

But they've already paid for the front of the line. The lightning.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Correct. It doesn't include anything other than a way to scan onto the ride.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

You don't have to take. This is just a way to not take your phone out of your pocket every single time. And it's also a little bit of a Disney paraphernalia.

[Jordan Harbinger]

100%.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

That's wild.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yes. And apparently, and I don't know this as fact, apparently, maybe sometimes they vibrate when you go on certain rides. That's it. Or they light up or something. But that's an example of just. Holy smokes. People actually pay for this. And you'll go. And you'll see a guy with a little plastic droid from Star wars in his backpack and you're like, oh, that's cute. I wonder what's in there. And I went to the Star wars place. And I go, oh, no. They just sell these. And the backpack is like a hundred dollars. And the build your own droid is God knows how much out of plastic parts. And then you just take that thing home and put it on a shelf and you can build your own lightsaber. I mean, it is objectively, really freaking cool if you're a kid, but the amount of money you spend. I told Jen, I go, just pay for stuff and don't tell me how much it costs. I don't even want to know because it's going to ruin it for me. It's going to ruin it. On the last day, we took the kids to the character breakfast, where Goofy is run around and Mickey Mouse is run around. They take photos with you and they high five your kids or whatever. And it's $35 for each kid to eat jello and a cookie for breakfast or whatever, like a fake waffle in the shape of Mickey Mouse. And for an adult to get an omelet and coffee, it was like 60 bucks, not including whatever else. And so I remember paying again 250 bucks for a breakfast where they basically just were like, oh, all right, let's take a photo with Goofy, a photo with Minnie Mouse, eat a little thing of jello, eat some ice cream, and go in the car. It was just bonkers. And at the end, I wasn't like, what a ripoff. I'm never doing this again. I was like, that was worth it. Which is so ridiculous.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

So, yeah, they're creating an experience, so it's really beautiful, but it's unsettling. Side note, I just looked it up. In 2024, Disney generated $34.2 billion.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Okay.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

With its Parks and Experiences division.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, I was gonna say, but that includes mo.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

No, actually, total revenue was $91 billion, and that was up 3% from the year before.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That is just nuts. But you know what? They hire so well and they train so well. A perfect example of this, I went on Space Mountain with Jaden, which I thought would terrify him, but he loved it. It's actually kind of scary. It's just a roller coaster in the dark. And it's a little scarier than I thought. When we came out, there was this little girl in the stroller, and she was crying her face off. Okay? And another gal who was probably early 20s, was sweeping the ground and picking up gum wrappers and stuff people dropped and just cleaning up trash and making sure the place was clean, wiped down, and not sticky. By the way, no trash can is Full. And no trash can is sticky or gross in that whole park. And there's thousands of them in that whole park.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah, it's immaculate. Actually, it is.

[Jordan Harbinger]

The Trash Cleaner gal goes up to this little girl in the stroller next to her mom and goes, what's wrong, princess? She couldn't talk. The mom goes, oh, she rode Space Mountain for the first time and she got scared. And she goes, I know how to fix that. I have a magic trick that'll fix that. Why don't we go on Mr. Toad's wild ride? And then the mom was like, yeah, we went, and we're gonna go there now. And she goes, I'll walk you to the front. We'll go on that right now. So the trash lady stopped what she was doing, took the mom, took the daughter who was still crying to Mr. Toad's wild ride. Doubtless went through some secret back door and skipped to the front of the line or something like that just to cheer up this girl who was a little bit sad at Disneyland. And I thought, this is such good management and training. My mind is flat out blown.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah, that's impressive. That's where Disney really shines.

[Jordan Harbinger]

They do.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

And you just see how, like, their company culture seeps into every little detail they do.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Even the crankiest looking security guys were on it and would just light up as soon as you talk to them. And the training involved is just crazy. You feel for them, though, because they are clearly not allowed to have a single bad moment of any bad day in their whole life while they're at work. Oh, did something horrific happen to you today? Oh, put on a smile and forget all about that. Because if you are even remotely weird to one guest at one time, it taints the business image.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So you gotta be good. We brought a portable little potty because the kids always have to go to the bathroom the second we're at the maximum distance from the bathroom. Or we already waited in a huge line to go and they didn't have to go. And then as soon as I go, they're like, now I have to pee. So we bring these little portable potty that a show fan actually gave us. And the guard goes, I'm sorry, I can't let you in with this, because it becomes a biohazard for us, yada, yada. So Jen ran, threw it back in the room. It had a few extra minutes. So I was chatting with the security guard and I go, hey, what are you actually looking for? I mean, people don't bring their gun to Disneyland. He's like, you'd be surprised. It's almost always just innocent. Oh, I carry this all the time. Or, oops, I forgot I had this in this bag. That kind of stuff. And he goes, but we're also looking for things that. Tickets. I was like, well, that sounds a little bit last century time bomb. What are you really looking for? He goes, oil stains and weird wires poking out or things that are like, unusually heavy.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Oil stains. What do you mean, oil stains?

[Jordan Harbinger]

So, explosives, and I'm no expert at all, but explosive materials are often very oily.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Oh, got it. I thought he meant, like, we don't want people bringing fish and chips into the park.

[Jordan Harbinger]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. They're very oily. So say you put it in a bag to disguise what it is. It's going to seep through the paper, it's going to seep through the liner, it's going to seep through the bag. And you, weird, you're at Disneyland and you just have a bag that has a weird oil stain on the outside. Let me just take a look inside there. It's that kind of thing. And he goes, can you tell I used to do something else for a living. But he was also this very kind old man who was like, give me a knuckle bump, kid. Oh, you've got magic in you. He's like a really kind grandpa who you can tell can shoot a bullseye at 100 yards. And it was just. They picked that guy out of a hundred thousand applicants as well. He's probably like ex military, special forces. And now his retired gig is hanging out at Disneyland looking for bombs and guns.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

That makes me feel better about Disneyland. I'm glad those people are in those jobs.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I am dying to know what plots they've foiled at Disneyland. The FBI must have had intelligence on stuff. The security guys surely have found things. In fact, if anybody out there has any info on this, hit me up. I'll keep you anonymous. I'm dying to know, because that seems like the perfect target, right? The happiest place on earth. Very American. Peak capitalism. You damaged the business to the tune of tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars. If anything weird happened there, like an explosion near the castle, it would just make international news and damage the business for years. So they must be a very prime sort of target for bad actors. And yet I've never heard of anything happening at Disneyland. All that means to me is that they've caught them in time, because otherwise you would have 8,000 phone videos of the aftermath of whatever it was. So I am just so curious. But you never hear about it. You never hear the FBI or the security at Disneyland foiled a plot or found this thing. They keep that under wraps for sure. So I'm just very curious what they have foiled. And hopefully nothing ever happens there because it's a bunch of kids and families just relaxing. That's what makes it a target for psychopaths, right? From militants and terrorists. So anyway, on that fun note, what's the first thing out of the mailbag? Let's slip into the Fadeback Friday, which is always cheerful and upbeat.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Dear Jordan and Gabe, My wife had a long, abusive childhood that included being told she couldn't do things. Lots of things. Big things. The things dreams are made of simply because she's disabled. She was often rejected out of hand and not told why, or never given an opportunity to even try. It's a sad childhood. And now as an adult, she suffers from depression, which is part of the reason that she's in therapy. But my wife still dreams big, and she has a lot of dreams. She wants to get into medicine, politics, art, music, and online entertainment. These dreams aren't just all over the place, they're also grand. She wants to not just be involved in medicine, but the chief of medicine. Not just in politics, but making big, sweeping changes to improve accessibility. Not just an artist, but the famous artist or a great musician who inspires awe. She gives me these hypotheticals that are so far out there. Like, how cool would it be if we went to insert big stage production here and I left the dinner table and then turned up on stage and it surprised everyone? I almost can't grasp it. My wife has a grand destination in mind, but I have trouble getting her to see the journey, getting her to see each step. Sure, all of this would be wonderful and amazing, but how would you do any of it? When she tells me about these dreams, I listen and ask questions, but she's quick to shut down if I probe too much into how would you do that? Or what does it take to get there? I'm also the sole financial provider in our relationship right now, so sometimes my response to her dreams and visions is where would we get the money for that when we can't even afford to fix our car? How do I support my wife's dreams on an emotional level? How do I support her? How do I help her pick one or two of these goals and get started on the journey to achieve these dreams? How do I show her that the journey has to come before the destination. Signed, helping my wife gain ground when she's always been put down.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Boy, this is. It's a tough one, but it's fascinating as well. All right, first of all, I'm very sorry to hear that your wife had this painful childhood, that she struggled with a disability, that she was treated poorly because of it. I can frankly only imagine what kind of messages a child with a disability receives when they're, I don't know, not picked for a school play or they don't get invited to kids birthday parties, which I hope doesn't happen because that makes me want to cry. Are not treated well by teachers and generally told that a lot of things, maybe most things, just aren't an option for her. That's just terrible.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

And never told why. That part made me the saddest somehow.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, Just never getting a shot at anything and then slowly, as you get older, realizing it's because people see you differently a certain way. When it sounds like your wife could have done so many more things than people said she was capable of, those must be very profound wounds. It's heartbreaking. There's real trauma there on top of the abuse that she apparently endured. So your wife has been through a lot. I can understand why she's depressed. I can also understand why all of this has made her kind of defiant. They told me I can't have dreams, so I'm going to dream even bigger. I'm going to dream even harder, which in a certain way. That's kind of incredible. Why some people might go through a childhood like this and just fold, stay small. And why other people like your wife, they'd enter adulthood with a fire in the belly.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

But what he's describing, it's more than just a healthy defiance, right?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. Clearly his wife's ambitions, and not just the dreams themselves, but the way she's going about trying to achieve them, or lack of a way, they're all right, let's call it like it is. They sound kind of delusional.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah, it sounds more like fantasy than genuine aspiration.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It's almost escapist in nature. They'd be delusional. Even for a person with a bunch of talent, no disability, who's working in a certain industry, even if you are working in commercials in Hollywood and you say, one day I'm going to be in a Hollywood blockbuster, even that sounds delusional. She wants to be the chief of medicine at a hospital and a great crusader in politics and a famous artist. Just achieving one of these things at the green belt level. Is hard enough that's potentially the work of an entire lifetime.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

So it sounds like there's some grandiosity here.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, it's grandiose. Exactly. And again, this would be grandiose for anyone to believe, but all the more so for somebody who apparently does have some kind of real practical limitations in this fantasy. He mentioned that she imagines herself at a production of, I don't know, Wicked or whatever's trending, and she's like, how cool would it be if I left the dinner table and turned up on stage and surprised everyone? Ta da. Along with the letter writer here. I'm just not sure what to do with that. So part of me hears that and goes, man, that's got to be a really meaningful fantasy for somebody who never got to have big moments in her life. If it's a fun daydream, let her have it. Maybe that highly active imagination is an essential part of her personality, given the life that she's had. And then another part of me hears that and goes, girl, you are Delulu.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I can't believe you just said that. Right? Yeah.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Come on, man. Yes, it's catchy and the crowds love it.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah. So the question is, Delulu, in service of what? You know, what function is this fantasy grandiosity serving? Because I'm with you. It might be a powerful way for her to maybe compensate for the childhood she had to sustain ego strength to enjoy a life she'll probably never get to live, if only in her mind. But it might also be a little worrisome if she's not fully in contact with reality.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So that's the sense that I'm getting. I mean, look, I'll delete this episode if she becomes the next Taylor Swift.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Oh, yeah, of course. You know you need those tickets, right?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Exactly. I need front row tickets for the whole family at Madison Square Garden. Something to top Disneyland.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah. No oily packages on the way in, though.

[Jordan Harbinger]

No oily packages allowed. Seriously, though, I don't think he'd be writing in if she were like, man, it would be so cool if I went to medical school and made an impact on people. Or, hey, sometimes in the shower, I pretend I'm Olivia Rodrigo and I'm singing at a stadium full of people. And then she went about her day and focused on normal, achievable goals and career stuff. He's writing in because he finds all of this a little alarming, probably because not only is she nursing these extreme fantasies, but she's not actually taking any steps toward making them a reality, which.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Is why I really feel for him. It's a hard conversation to be in.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I do too. This is a really tough place to be as a partner. Because if he's. Honey, your dreams are a little nuts, and I think you need to be realistic. He risks coming across as cruel and unsupportive, recapitulating her whole childhood and maybe sending her further into her depression, not letting her have this nice out. But then if he plays along, he's colluding with her delusion, right?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Kalulu with the dulu.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, kalulu with the delulu. Exactly. Man, speaking of catchy Kalulu with the dulu. That is way too fun to say. I'm gonna have to try and shake that by the weekend.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Oh, man. I'm gonna be saying that in yoga later. I already know it. I'm just gonna start cracking up in a pose.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Warrior 3. Is that a real pose? That doesn't sound real.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

That's a real pose.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Real warrior 3. How many warriors are there? How high does it go?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I think it's three or four. Maybe there's a fourth, but you never do it.

[Jordan Harbinger]

You never do it.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I'm going to take you back to class. I'm going to get a cululu with my dulu. We're going to go.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, as long as it's 115 degrees or whatever it was that time. I'm still trying to rehydrate my body from hot ate yoga four months ago, so. Look, I honestly don't know how you're supposed to support your wife's dreams if this is the relationship that she has with them. There is a difference between a dream and a delusion, between an aspiration and a fantasy. In any goal, whether it's super attainable or crazy ambitious, the rubber has to meet the road at some point. Like you said, journey over destination. So if she just wants to fantasize, which she's allowed to do, and actually, fantasy isn't all bad. It does play an important role for us. And maybe an extra important role for her. I mean, I fantasize regularly, mostly about getting a full night of uninterrupted sleep.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Good luck with that, by the way. Not going to happen.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Exactly. Not anytime soon if all she wants to do is fantasize. I am just not sure what you would even be supporting other than her vivid imagination. And possibly, and I hate saying this because it feels mean, a shaky grasp on reality.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

So it might be helpful to consider what supporting your wife actually means to you. Or what you want it to mean, what kind of support do you want to offer? Does it mean validating her fantasies and potentially feeding a delusion and potentially helping keep her stuck in this fantasy world? Or could it look like saying something along the lines of, honey, I love that you have these big dreams. I know how much they mean to you. I want to help you go after whatever excites you. But I also know that if you really want these things, you're going to have to pick one or two of them and you're going to have to start chipping away at them, or they're just going to be ideas in your head. That's true for me. That's true for you. It's true for anyone. And what I'm seeing is that it's hard for you to translate your dreams into action and not just focus on the destination. So when you're ready, I'm here to help you do that, and I will be your champion. And if these are just fun fantasies, that's okay, too. But maybe you can help me understand if these dreams are things you actually want to pursue, because that would help me know how to show up for you.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I like that. Because he's not saying, grow up and be realistic, Linda. You're never going to be a doctor. He's saying, I'm here for you. And there's a bit of a gap here. And can you help me understand what you're looking for from me?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

And the subtext is I need you to step into a shared reality so I can best support you.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Which is totally fair. But I still think this is going to be a tough conversation for him, because like he said, when he probes too much, she just shuts down.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

So he does need to navigate these conversations carefully, with a lot of patience, a lot of love, a lot of understanding, because this subject is obviously loaded for her. She might hear this as, I don't believe in you, or these just aren't realistic options for you, which is not necessarily what he would be saying. But that might be very painful for her, given her life experience. Not his fault, just painful.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Exactly. He needs to go out of his way to make her understand that's not what he's saying, so she can take in what he's actually saying.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I'm also still thinking about this potentially grandiose quality, because wherever there's grandiosity, there's very tender territory underneath. The grandiosity might be part of a kind of narcissism that I imagine developed in order to survive this very painful childhood. And maintain self esteem into adulthood. It might also be a defense against having to be in a real relationship with her goals by actually taking steps to achieve them. And as we all know, when you do that, you have to be willing to feel all of the feelings that come with actually confronting the things you want to achieve and how hard that is and all of that, which can be very wounding. And I do strongly suspect that's playing a role here. Or who knows, man? The grandiosity might even be a symptom of a mood disorder or something like that. He said she's depressed. He didn't say she's bipolar. But grandiosity can be a symptom of mania. And even if she's not bipolar, it does sound like there is kind of like a generically manic quality to some of these aspirations of hers. So by having this chat with her, you're wading into potentially tricky waters. It can be a little bit alarming, a little destabilizing, sometimes angering to a grandiose person to be told, especially by their partner, hey, you need to come back to earth here, because I don't know what to make of this. To you, that's just common sense. It's a step toward actually achieving her goals, which it is. But to her, it might be like ripping away a very precious protection. And it might bring up some anger, some shame, some sadness for her. So all that to say, I would move slowly and keep validating your wife's potential. Her right to dream, which she does have a right to do. Tell her that you're still on her team, but be prepared for any number of responses and then hang in there with her. This will be a process for the two of you. It might be a little bumpy, but my feeling is this is probably a crucial conversation for you to have.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That's where I end up falling with all this too. Because if he doesn't say anything, then he's agreeing to live part time in fantasy land to keep cululu with the dulu. And that's not just not helping her, it's also kind of harming him. And like I said, that would be just as true for a partner who isn't disabled. That kind of has nothing to do.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

With her disability, but it is informed by her disability, and that's what makes it extra complicated.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Right? Which is why I really feel for him and for both of them. And look, if all of this feels too daunting, maybe you can encourage your wife to talk to her therapist about these big dreams of hers. Maybe you can ask what they make of them, whether they're helping her turn them into action, and if not, why? Because ultimately I think therapy is where she's going to have to work through a lot of this stuff anyway, including whatever your conversation with her brings up. So that's the real conversation that you guys need to have. And once you guys move through that stage, if your wife is willing to go there with you, then you can talk about the one or two goals to focus on and start getting practical. We are rooting, of course, for both of you. Good luck. And now I want you to cululu in our delulu by checking out the totally unhinged deals on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Deleteme. Deleteme makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. You ever get one of those weird spam calls where they somehow know your name? Or worse, you get a letter in the mail from some random company you've never even heard of? That's your personal info, thanks to data brokers selling it off to anybody willing to pay. That's one reason why I use Deleteme. They do all the heavy lifting, removing your info from hundreds of data broker websites. Most importantly, keeping it off, because these sites love to bring your data back. Plus, Deleteme sends regular reports. It's quite satisfying to look at how much of your info has been scrubbed and taken down. I don't have time to track this stuff myself. Who does? So I leave it to the pros over at Deleteme. So if you care about your privacy, check out Deleteme. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your delete me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com Jordan and use promo code Jordan at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com Jordan and enter code Jordan at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com Jordan code Jordan. This episode is sponsored in part by Audible. Okay, let's talk about the New year. You're probably thinking about resolutions like maybe hitting the gym. You're going to eat better. Maybe you're going to finally organize that junk drawer that could double as a time capsule from the 90s. But here's an easier let audible expand your life just by listening a little bit like this podcast. But seriously, Audible makes self improvement feel doable. They've got over a million audiobooks, podcasts, and exclusive Audible originals. This show is available in the app. If you want to get fit without actually leaving your couch, there's advice for that. If you need relationship tips that don't involve arguing over the thermostat. Okay, they got you covered. If you're thinking about making a career move or tackling your finances, they've got listens for that too. And the best part is you can learn and grow while doing stuff you already commuting, working out, folding laundry like an absolute champion. Suddenly you're crushing your goals and you didn't even break a sweat. Unless you listen to audiobooks while you're working out. Then sweat away. Start your 30 day trial at audible.com jhs it's like a personal trainer for your brain without needing to break a sweat. Thank you so much for listening and supporting our amazing sponsors. All of the deals and discounts and ways to support the podcast, searchable and clickable over on the website jordanharbinger.com deals please consider supporting those who support the show. Now back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Hey, Jordan and Gabe, my fiance and I are getting married in a few months. She's 27 and I'm 30 and we're super excited to start building a life together. We're both first generation immigrants. Both sets of parents were born and raised in northern India and in many Indian cultures, a wedding means everything.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, really? Never heard that. Weird.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

This is news to us. Usually a pretty modest affair at the Indian wedding. No pretty low key, close friends and.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Family in and out. No big fuss.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Definitely no grooms riding in on wildlife, elephants or whatever for five days of festivities or anything like that. So yeah, he goes on. I've always seen Indian weddings as a wonderful opportunity for people to get together and share happiness, tradition, culture and love. But my thoughts have changed drastically. Our parents have turned what was supposed to be a joyous occasion into a question of optics. Guest lists count, making sure people we haven't seen in years are invited. What will so and so think if we do an outdoor versus an indoor event? The list goes on. We always wanted to have a smaller, intimate wedding and reception, not the usual week long 500 person ordeal. Fortunately, most of that has calmed down now we've come to an agreement on most things and our parents are starting to support us in ways that we can appreciate.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, okay, so that's not the conundrum.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

That's not the problem.

[Jordan Harbinger]

But isn't every single wedding a question of optics? Basically, this is not just you, my friend, but continue.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

But now there's a new problem. My 26 year old first cousin bringing her 32 year old boyfriend of 2 years to the wedding. Her parents and our grandparents have always disapproved of their relationship because he's not of the same ethnic background.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Dating a white guy. Got it.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

They've also made comments about his education and future plans, or lack thereof.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Dating a white guy with no job. Okay.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Unfortunately, the rest of the family has been resistant to meet him. In my view, it's up to my cousin to determine who's best for her. And I'll support her if he makes her happy. So I made the decision to extend an invite to her boyfriend. This has caused a lot of drama. My grandparents are calling me, asking me why I invited him. Her dad reached out and we had a civil but long conversation as well. They don't want him to come and want me to influence my cousin. They're being manipulative, saying that if he comes, they'll be mad the whole time, that it'll be awkward, they don't want to be seated next to them, stuff like that. They even alluded to leaving early. But my cousin says she wouldn't be comfortable going to the wedding without him. So this is just turning into a real message.

[Jordan Harbinger]

How dare these people. I might leave and be mad at your wedding. Okay.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I don't want to be involved with this at all.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Don't blame ya.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I've started to distance myself from the situation and set boundaries.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Bravo.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

But we're having some anxiety thinking about what will happen at the wedding. I would hate for my side of the family to cause a stink and put a dark cloud over the whole event. And my fiance would be disappointed for anyone to leave early to avoid the situation. What should we do? How can we mentally prepare for this? Should we speak to everyone prior to the event and remind them how we just want everyone to be happy, supportive and enjoy the occasion? How can we turn a blind eye if we notice any drama during the event? Signed, trying to be a good son and not shun my family for burdening us a ton when they're ruining our fun over this hard one. Plus one.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. Tell him he got into medical school. Problem solved.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Along with the wife from the previous question. They're both enrolling in Harvard this fall. Done.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Exactly. Man, this story, it bums me out. Kind of. Actually, it pisses me off.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

If I can see that.

[Jordan Harbinger]

A fine point on the emotion that I'm feeling. This is not your problem, my man. This is between your cousin and the family. Not that they can ultimately dictate who she sees, like you said, that's up to her. But if they have a problem with him, and look, maybe there are some legit reasons for that. I don't know, Whatever. They can talk to her about that. The fact that they are putting you and your fiance in the middle of all of their personal crap. The fact that they are using your wedding as an opportunity to lean on her to break up with this guy or exclude him from a family event. That is so not cool. It's so inappropriate. It's wildly inappropriate. And all of this stuff about being mad the whole time, the wedding being awkward, leaving early, this is all on them. They are choosing to have that response on arguably the most important day of your life and choosing to make it your problem so that you will do what they want. This is so insane to me, man. They are entitled to have whatever feelings they have, but that does not mean that they need or should feel the permission to express them on a day that is not about them. They are adults. It is time to start acting as such. So, yeah, as you can tell, I do not think this is okay. I know you know that, but I am just confirming that all of your suspicions about them being children and ridiculous are 100% correct. So your decision to pull back and draw boundaries is exactly the right one. My advice to you is to stand by that decision and respectfully tell your family. Listen, guys, we hear you loud and clear. You don't like Radica's boyfriend. You're allowed to feel however you feel about him. But she's my cousin. She and Mike have been together for two years. We're giving her a plus one just like everyone else. If that doesn't sit well with you, we understand that, but that's between you and Radica. And we ask that you not push us to disinvite him anymore because it's causing a lot of stress around our special day. And by the way, we have a lot of other crap we got to do. I've got to pick 17,000 different decorations and food items. This is not high in my list of priorities. Now, you can leave that part out, but we all know that's how you feel. Our hope is that you can put this aside and remember what this day is really about. My fiance and me. Not one guest that you don't like. You coming and enjoying yourselves and not letting him ruin the whole day would be the best gift you could give us. That and $500. At least. That's how I do it. And if they continue to make this your problem, they're really going to look like even bigger a holes than they do already. But they might not know that and they might not care. Look, this is probably a little daunting, especially in a family like this. Clearly there's some sort of unspoken rule where this is somewhat okay because otherwise they wouldn't have done it. It's awkward, it's scary. It means bearing the discomfort of some people in your family, being angry with you for not doing what they want. Potentially the discomfort of them not having a good time at your wedding, leaving early, or maybe not coming at all. Although candidly, I always think this is such a BS bluff, I really think it's unlikely. I think they are blustering and they're stomping their feet like my 3 year old daughter when she doesn't get what she wants because they see an opportunity to work on your cousin. And on the day they're probably just gonna suck it up because that's what decent people do. And that's my strong hunch. I think it's all gonna be just gone the day of. There's gonna be a couple stinky looks and that's it. But you have to be willing to tolerate those feelings in order to protect yourselves and your day here. I hate that they are putting you in this position. It really makes me angry. You do not deserve it. Your fiance doesn't either. But since this is what's happening, you guys just have to have a hard conversation.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Totally agree. I also think this might be a really important decision for them to make together to communicate to the family. They come from a family to your point a moment ago and a culture that can be a little intense. Everyone's up in everyone's business optics are clearly very important. Families want to have a say in whom people date and whom they bring to family events. Let's not forget that the whole preamble to this letter was that his parents turned this joyful process into a nightmare by pushing him to have the wedding that they wanted. So his family is putting their interests above his in a number of ways. So by taking a stand on your cousin and her boyfriend, you will also be setting a precedent for how these big decisions are going to go in the future. You're basically saying, look guys, we're happy to hear you out. We acknowledge your opinion. It's fair, but we're not going to fold or bend over backwards to accommodate you. We're adults. You're putting us in the middle of a problem that is not ours. And you guys need to figure this out and decide what to do with your feelings on your own.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. Powerful message.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

And it might be a really important first step as they build their lives together.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Agreed. So that's how we'd handle this. Part of this decision means making peace with the fact that you can't make everyone happy here and you can't control everyone's experience, which is also an important part of the script that you're rewriting here. So when you say, how can we mentally prepare for this? I would say mentally prepare to compartmentalize this drama so that you can enjoy your day and get clear with yourself about what's yours and what's not yours. If Nani and Dottie have their knickers in a twist because Mike doesn't have an MBA or whatever, fine. Those are their knickers. They are not yours. You guys need to be very clear about that. And that's not so much turning a blind eye to this BS as saying, I see that my grandparents are missing our wedding because they want to be right. And that's really sad. Now let me get back to popping and lock into Paper Plans by Mia because that's in every indie. And just enjoy your night because you only get to do your wedding once. That part is your responsibility.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Also, that song is such a banger.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It is a banger.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

You gotta enjoy it.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, with the gunshot sample and everything. Yeah. I mean, it glorifies street violence. Whatever. We take what we can get. I'm sorry you have to deal with all this. I'm also kind of excited for you to set a new tone here. Congrats on getting married. Have a blast at the wedding. And make sure Mike gets an extra serving of biryani. He's going to be feeling the heat that night. And, hey, if all else fails, invite me to the wedding. I love chicken tikka masala. I'll wait, wear a Mike Tyson face tattoo and act like Jake Paul at the buffet. That'll pull all the attention away from Radica's boyfriend. Just make Jordan the bad guy. I'll give you a good raid. Basically, you let me ride the elephant. We call it even. I know what I'm getting for lunch after this. Gabriel, I've got a hankering now for some of that good chicken tikka masala. You know what? The comical part of this is. They probably think they're being really chill, dictating what kind of wedding he wants. Because they're like, hey, we let him pick the bride. What more does he want? We didn't even try to pick his wife for him. We're totally chill.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah, you got to pick your partner. We get to pick every other aspect of your life.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That's right. That's right. We just get to pick where you live, how many children you have, what kind of wedding you have. We're totally laid back parents. Come on. Oh, man. You can reach us fridayordanharbinger.com Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line. That makes our job a lot easier. If you're trying to track down an isolated relative, your parents are living next to a psychotic person, or you're debating whether to bring your future kids around, your unstable homicidal uncle. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up [e-mail], we're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. And by the way, our newsletter is a huge hit with you guys. I really love the feedback we get from this. It's called Wee Bit Wiser. It's a bite sized gem from a past episode from us to you, delivered to your inbox most Wednesdays. So if you want to keep up with the wisdom from our thousand plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out. You can sign [e-mail] News all right, what's next?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Hey, Gabe and Jordan. I'm 24, my wife is 25 and we got married when we were 18. I've hid my porn consumption from her for pretty much the entirety of the marriage and lied about it constantly. Then five months ago, she found out that I had been lying and living a double life and legally separated from me. She moved out of the house. And while she was gone, I changed. I stopped watching porn and started working on a way out of this addiction. Three months later, she decided to move back in because she liked the trajectory I was on. She had one condition. That I never lie to her again. We then realized I was in a lot of debt because of my business and I said that I would get a job.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Wait, hold on, I'm confused. We realized I was in a lot of debt. So he didn't know he was in debt.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Is that possible? I guess that's possible. I don't know if I totally buy that though.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. So I've run A couple businesses. Nothing major, as you all know, but you got to know things aren't good and that you're spending more money than you have. You'd have to be completely asleep at the wheel and actively not checking your bank account or whatever to not know. And unless it's a big business where there's an accounting department and they're just not telling you something that doesn't make any sense to me.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Okay, it's probably not that you realized you were in a lot of debt. You were in a lot of debt, and it sounds like you didn't tell.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Her, which means when she said, okay, I'll move back in, but on one condition. You never lie to me again. You lied to her. You didn't own up to the full truth. I don't mean to pounce and nitpick here, folks, but his whole letter is about not being honest with his spouse. I hear this detail and I go, okay, sounds like a pattern of deception and.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Or self deception, for sure. We then realized I was in a lot of debt because of my business, and I said that I would get a job. The interview process for the job I wanted is still taking a while, so in the meantime, I just decided to keep the business going. Since the beginning of this year, about two months ago, I've acted out six times, but I never lied about it. I told her about each time acted out.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I assume he means watched porn.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yes, I think that's what he means.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Because earlier he said double life. Does that mean he's just watching porn? That's the big secret? Or is he having affairs too?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Fair question. I hope he would have just told us if that were the case. But yes, it does sound like porn is the issue here because he kept it a secret in the past. So he goes on. We had a huge fight about the last time we were sleeping in separate rooms and not talking to each other. Then I came home after two days of that and she was gone. She said that she's moving to California with her brother indefinitely, but she doesn't want to file for divorce. She wants me to, but I don't want to file either. I've made it clear that I'm sorry and that I want to change, but she's not having any of it. I still love her and I don't think I'll ever find anyone else like her, but I don't know if I'm doing her a disservice by not divorcing her. Should I try to get her back or should I just Give up Signed. Debating whether to give chase after continuing to face that tricky place in cyberspace.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, boy. Okay, first of all, I want to thank you for sharing so much with us. I'm sure this is not easy to talk about. I can hear that it's causing you a lot of sadness, a lot of distress, and I appreciate your vulnerability. I also appreciate that you understand that this addiction has become a problem in your marriage, or maybe it was more the deception around it and that you want to get better. From the sound of it, I can also appreciate your wife's perspective to some degree here. Look, I personally don't think it's fair to divorce your spouse for having a couple dates with Miss Michigan every now and then, if you catch my drift.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Wait, what? Ms. Michigan? What is that drift?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Not caught?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I assume I do not catch your drift.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Growing up in Michigan, when you tell people where you live, you hold up your hand and you point to a place on the hand for the lower peninsula where you live.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Okay.

[Jordan Harbinger]

And so if you have a date with Ms. Michigan, do I need to.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Fill in the rest of the blanks or are we getting. Wow, I have never heard that before. What a Midwest thing that I just completely missed out on.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That is a local ref, but I think most Michigan. Yeah, I'm hanging out with Miss Michigan tonight. Or just me and Miss Michigan. That's what we used to say. And it was obvious because we were in high school and nobody was actually getting laid, so.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

And if you're. If you're using, like, a fleshlight, is it a date with Miss California or.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It depends on the shape of the flesh.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Like, they only come in one shape. Dude, what are you talking about?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, I don't know. That's true. Is that what California looks like? I don't know. There's probably.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I was trying to think of a state, but that seems like the most obvious one for that.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. I don't know. Bahrain.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Like a date with a pocket rocket. It's like Miss Yemen.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, God. It's more of an oman shape. It's custom. So part of me is like, is it really fair to get divorced based on this? But obviously, look, everyone has different values around this stuff. Obviously, our values are to make fun of it incessantly when we do it. Also, once it becomes an addiction, which you said it is. Okay. That when it's a compulsive thing, that is a problem, no matter what your values are around watching a little bit of porn. Where I really identify with her is she's been married to a guy who hid what seems to be a very significant part of his life from her. Two significant parts, right? The porn consumption and the business debt problem, which in my opinion is much more serious. Also, the job he wanted was taking a while to get back to him, so he went back to the business, which, fine, maybe that made some sense because the money was already spent or whatever. But if you desperately need to find employment to climb out of this debt, going back to the company that's compromising you guys without trying to fix the underlying issue, which it doesn't sound like you did, instead of interviewing for other jobs to keep you afloat, I wonder if that was a little questionable, too. If you're really dying for cash, go work at Target for a month or two. I don't know how easy it is to even get those jobs now, so maybe I'm off on this, but go cut lawns or something for a little while just to fill in the gap. Doordash man, Uber. She also took a chance on coming back to you after three months, and then she learned that not only are you still struggling with the porn consumption, although I really do appreciate that you told her about it each time. You deserve some credit for that. That must have been incredibly awkward. But there's this whole debt thing that she didn't know about, so. Your wife has some legitimate reasons to feel angry here. And I can't say that I blame her for not being able to fully trust you. So here's my honest reaction to all this. I hear you, that you're sorry about hiding this stuff from your wife. And I believe that. And I hear you, that you want to change. And I believe that, too. But the reality is, and I'm just going to be very direct with you, and I say this with love. Those are just words. They are just ideas. Saying you're sorry, it does count for something. It's important. Saying you want to change, that's obviously where change begins. But what are you doing about any of this? Are you going to Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous or another support group like that and talking about the porn addiction? Are you going to therapy and talking about why it's hard for you to be consistently honest about stuff that's uncomfortable? Are you digging into your company's books and figuring out why it's struggling, what you need to do to right the ship? Are you really taking care of you and your wife financially while you climb out of this hole? That's some crucial work that you got to do here, not just for your wife, but for yourself. And I'm just not hearing anything in your letter that suggests you're actively taking steps to understand yourself better, make healthier choices, and show her, not through your words, not through your aspirations, but through your actions, your process, that you are on the path to becoming a better person and a more trustworthy partner. Until you do that, I'm not sure that getting your wife back is really going to even fix anything. And honestly, if she were writing in, I'd probably say, yeah, don't go back to him right now. He has some work to do. Let him do that work, watch how he does, then see what's what. So I'm definitely not recommending that you just give up, but I do think that you need to get clear on what your priorities are, what a productive path forward. Actually looks like. What I'm hearing is that you are so focused on getting your wife back that you are essentially overlooking the very problems that led her to leave in the first place.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Totally. And I wonder if that's one more form of self deception, a way to avoid the real issue here. He's fixating on his wife, but completely ignoring these issues that are largely his to sort out.

[Jordan Harbinger]

He thinks that he has a wife leaving problem, but he actually has a can't stop watching porn problem, and I can't tell my wife certain things problem, and my business is kind of a mess problem. His marriage is just one symptom of these deeper themes, and probably other ones too, including, to be fair, some of his wife's things. But that's tangential to the main issue here. So this is the stuff you need to be working on, man. Otherwise, what do you think's gonna happen if you and your wife get back together? How is this magically gonna resolve? It's not. It's only going to get better when you get better. But part of making this shift is realizing that you might have to let your wife go. It sounds like that's where this is heading anyways. I know that's very painful. There's a lot of grief in this process. But hey, ultimately that's healthy grief. Because what your wife has done by leaving is really that she's forced you to confront some very profound stuff. And if you lean into it, if you do this work, you are going to grow massively. And then in a way, she'll have done you a great service. So start taking care of yourself, man. We're rooting for you. Good luck. And now you can spank it to the pornographically great deals on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. I've got homes.com as a sponsor for this episode. Homes.com knows what when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or the condo. It's about the homes. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location. It's the neighborhood. If you got kids. It's also schools, nearby, parks, transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in depth information they need to find the right home. It's so hard not to say home every single time. And when I say in depth information, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings, student teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know, all in1place.homes.com We've done your homework. This episode is sponsored in part by the Defender. We all have those big goals that seem just out of reach, right? But the truth is, that's what keeps us moving forward. For the people who embrace challenges and explore their way, there's the Defender. The Defender is built to handle whatever comes its way with legendary capability on road or off. It's engineered with a tough, rigid body, tested to the extreme and built with durable, lightweight architecture for strength and confidence. But it's not just about ruggedness. It's an icon reimagined with a design that feels modern yet honors its adventurous roots. Plus, there's a Defender for every kind of Explorer, from the Defender 90 to the 110 and even the 130, which seats up to eight people. So whether it's just you or the whole family, there's a model for your journey. If you're ready to embrace the impossible, the Defender is your perfect partner, beyond capable and ready to go wherever you're headed next. Build your defender@land roverusa.com if you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment. Support our sponsors. All of the deals discount codes that you hear on the show are at jordanharbinger.com deals. Our AI chatbot can also surface codes over on the website jordanharbinger.com AI and if that thing fails, you can always email us. I'd love to dig up these codes for you because it is that important that you support those who support the show. Now back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Hey, Gordon and Jabe. I'm an esthetician in my early 20s and I work at a small family owned spa. The past year has been rough. Basically we offer a luxury service and with the economy the way it is, it's one of the first things people cut out of their budget. When I bought my first home in 2022, I was doing well. I was putting money into savings and working on my little fixer upper. Fast forward to 2024 and I've been making less and less as a Commission based employee. $20,000 less to be exact. On top of the state of the economy, the way the beauty industry is evolving has hurt professionals and small businesses and I don't know where to go from here. One of the best ways for us to gain clientele is through social media. These days it's hard to gain any visibility online without being a full time content creator of my daytime job. Of course there are some wonderful professionals and great resources out there, but even they have become overshadowed. An easier, cheaper service or one you can do at home is much more appealing to potential clients. I could go on about the unrealistic expectations clients have based on what they see online, but you get the idea. Self promotion has become an increasingly time consuming headache with very little payoff and I've basically given up. I'm also concerned about the rise of unlicensed hustlers on social media. In response, our state licensing board has been discussing limiting our scope of practice more and more. This has created job insecurity and led to spa closures as practitioners have been pushed towards medical settings and training. It also limits the higher priced services we can confidently offer as a day spa. On top of that, as clients get under the table services with harmful results, it lessens their trust in practitioners as a whole. All of this to say, I'm very concerned about my future. Even though our management is great and goes out of their way to gain clientele and our spa has an amazing reputation. I left college to pursue aesthetics because I was enthusiastic about it and it felt right. But I'm growing to resent the beauty industry. I'm stuck ruminating on how my life would be better if I hadn't made such a life altering career change. My fiance and I have bills to pay and I was the primary breadwinner for years. She was laid off recently and is trying desperately to get one of her Many opportunities to commit, but they just keep stringing her along. We both often work our side hustles late into the night to put a little extra money in our pockets. And I've been applying for second jobs with zero luck. We now live paycheck to paycheck, and even that is barely scraping by. I'm robbing Peter to pay Paul just to keep the lights on.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, man, that's very intense. I'm sorry. I hear you that this is really stressful. I know exactly what it's like to rob Peter, to pay Paul, to keep a roof over my head. When I was in my 20s, building my first business, I was in this position. And I remember telling landlords the rent check is in the mail. And then when it wasn't the right amount because it was short, telling them, oh, my assistant made a mistake. I'll send the balance immediately with another check that's going in the mail. It's a very intense place to be.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah. Wow. I didn't realize that things were that scrappy when you were in your early days.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, early days. Yeah, it was tough.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

That's wild. I've seen people do incredibly well in my field, so I know it's possible. I've been trying my best to work hard and not get beaten down. I come in early and stay late. I come in on days off. I even come in on days I don't have clients and don't get paid. I don't always mind, but. But more and more on an hourly basis. I'm making less than minimum wage. I'm not a content creator. I'm not a hashtag girlboss. I wasn't built to hustle. I'm not looking for a badass career or trying to get rich. I just want a stable job. But I'm having trouble getting clear on what I want, especially given my specialized skill set. I have many interests, but I keep finding myself scrolling through job websites without any direction. What in the world should I do? Find another trade or go back to school? Start flipping burgers to make ends meet? Should I cut my losses and sell my home I've come to love so much? Signed. Trying to inject some new ideas into the face of my career.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, man, this is a tough story. I'm really bummed for you because this is incredibly frustrating. It's funny, Gabe. I see more and more social media content and ads for the beauty industry on Instagram and stuff.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

So much of it.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. I just assumed the industry was booming. I'm not even the target And I see it. So there are so many new products and injections and devices and treatments and social media is making people want to look more attractive. I just guess I didn't realize the industry was going through this huge crisis. So everything you're describing, it sounds really bleak, really demoralizing, not to mention exhausting. This is a lot to deal with. And most of this macro industry stuff is out of your control, which probably makes everything harder. But look, there's one huge bright spot in your letter, and that is you. Honestly, you sound like an extraordinary employee, a really solid person. And I hear you. You don't have grand aspirations to be super rich or super famous. I appreciate that. But look at how you're meeting these challenges. You're coming in early, you're staying late, you're coming in on your days off, you're working your butt off. You're a champ. I'm not saying those are sustainable strategies. I'm not sure they're actually working. But someone else in your shoes might just throw up their hands and complain and expect the world to solve their problems. And you're not doing that. You're just meeting these headwinds with more commitment. And I really admire that. And I think that quality is actually one of your superpowers. And it's probably going to be the key to surviving this chapter and navigating the rest of your career. So let's talk about how to do that. It seems to me you have two broad options. Option one is you stay in the beauty industry, but you adapt. Adapting means accepting the facts of your profession as they are and choosing to work with them, which might mean making less money and adjusting your lifestyle, which doesn't sound like a realistic option. You're already treading water, but that is one way to respond. It might mean supplementing your income with a second job, which you're in the process of interviewing for. And who knows, maybe something good will come along. The job hunt can be brutal. I know, but it's a process. You might find something great. It might mean building more relationships at other spas and practices, maybe finding one that pays better or doesn't do commissions or is responding to these industry changes better. Maybe you partner with other businesses, I don't know, a wedding planner, a wellness center, a hotel or something. And you find a way to do some cross promotion to get new clients without having to do the social media hustle. Okay. Any brides you send my way for some Botox. Great. Any newly engaged women who come to my spa, I'll Send them your way as well. People do this in other industries all the time. It might also mean finding a niche within the esthetician world and becoming excellent at it. You become the eyebrow tattoo artist or the microdermabrasion expert in your area or whatever. So much so that you can charge more, make your clients more loyal. Jen had her eyebrows tattooed and I think the wait list for her artist was over a year. It might have even two years or something. It was crazy long and it was not cheap. It was impressive. A lot of people missing eyebrows out there, I guess. I don't know. But. Oh, and you got to get them touched up so it's like you're not done. When you get them done, you got to go back again. And on a related note, maybe you become so good at that niche, you start teaching other estheticians how to do it and you slowly start building a side hustle doing trainings on weekends, which maybe that's not interesting to you. Sounds cool to me, not to mention lucrative. Look, this might even mean becoming a part time content creator to make your commissions, which I totally get why you don't want to do that. That is absolutely fair. I hear you that the economics are bad, but. And let's just play with this for a second, it's an interesting question why something like content creation isn't worth your time, but going into the spa on your days off is. Can imagine why. It's probably more doable and more impactful in the short term. But if this is purely a question of time and money, then you're already spending your time working when you're not making money. Right? You're already dragging down your hourly wage to below minimum wage. So I'm not sure if doing makeup tutorials on YouTube or, or Botox breakdowns on TikTok or whatever. I'm not sure that that's actually a worse decision just from a business perspective. But anyway, I'm not telling you that the answer is to become a beauty influencer. What I am encouraging you to do is stay open. Try not to get too attached to your current way of doing things or the obvious way of doing things, because that can keep you stuck and another year could go by and nothing will change. Whereas if you tried a few new ways to work with the reality of your industry, as depressing as it is, you might be surprised by what you find. It's just something to think about. Option two is you make a career change, you pivot to a new industry. I know you left school to pursue this field. I know that probably feels like a huge shift, but honestly, you're in your late 20s. That's still so young people make career pivots in their 40s, in their 50s, sometimes even after that. So this is another thing I would stay open to. And of course, I can't tell you what field that should be. That's for you to decide. It could be another trade. It could mean going back to school. I wish I could just tell you, oh, yeah, you've been tattooing people's eyebrows for eight years. Go do this new thing. But that's not how it works. This is going to be a process. So my advice is take this time to think about what lights you up, which aspects of being an esthetician you genuinely enjoy the most, and think about the bigger picture. Not just the technical aspects, which are important, too, but the experiences you love. Maybe it's interacting one on one with people or helping them feel confident, or teaching people new things, whatever that is for you. Because those experiences, those callings, those are the things that actually create meaning. Those are the things you can follow into other fields, and those are the things that allow you to tell a compelling story to employers as you make a big shift. I worked as an esthetician for a decade. Now I want to be an executive recruiter. That story is random. It is hard to track. But I worked as an esthetician. I didn't love the industry, but I loved helping people feel their best and empower them to go out into their lives and succeed. And being an executive recruiter is how I want to do that. Now, that's a story I can wrap my head around and actually get invested in. And again, I'm not saying you should go become a recruiter. I'm just illustrating a point. And while you do that, I'd go back and listen to all the episodes we've done on finding your purpose or finding where your passions line up with what the world needs. We'll link to all of those in the show notes for you until you get clear on this stuff for yourself. And I would talk to your partner about this, your friends, other peers in the industry, a mentor. Until you do that, I think this job search is probably going to feel scattershot and frustrating. Definitely find a second job if that's what you need to survive. Nothing wrong with that. But if you're looking for a pivot that's meaningful and rewarding, if you want to rise to the top of the resume pile, you're going to need to do some inner work to get clear on what your intention is here. And that might take a little while. And that's okay. I know it's stressful right now. I get it. But also, be patient. Hang in the question for a little while. Maybe use some of those hours you're working for free to focus on yourself. And I'm confident that things will start to make more sense.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah, really good advice, Jordan. And just for this practical question about whether to sell your home, I also can't straight up tell you what to do there. What I would say is don't sell your home unless it's putting you into dire financial straits or you're seriously at risk of losing it or something like that. Or if selling the house and then renting a smaller place would give you significantly more time and energy to devote to these new career ideas. If you decide, for example, that your calling is becoming a teacher and you need to get a master's in education to do the kind of work you want to do and the only way to pay for school is to sell the house, then you would be doing it for a very solid reason. It would be funding your next chapter. But I wouldn't just panic sell. I know that living paycheck to paycheck is terrifying. That is a very real thing. But you also want to protect this beautiful investment of yours. And the reality is, after moving and fees and just like the headache of selling a house, I guess I would want to know if renting a place or buying a smaller place would significantly change things for you. So maybe decouple owning a house from the bigger career questions, at least for now. My only other thought for you, I would be curious to know how other estheticians are dealing with these challenges. You said that you've seen people do incredibly well in your field, so it is possible, which is great news. I would reach out to those people and really anyone in your industry and just ask them, like, hey, I'm seeing this in the economics and I'm noticing these trends and it's become really hard and I'm making $20,000 less every year. How are you surviving? How are you making your commissions? And just start to crowdsource ideas for how to respond to all of this. Somebody has the answer.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, I like that. Also, hey, this is one of the best ways to network, to just reach out to peers and ask if they're open to chatting about the business. It's low stress, it's very organic, and who knows, maybe one of these people tells you about some secret hack they learned how to make better commissions. And maybe one of them says, oh, my spa's hiring, I'll pass. Your resume, you just never know. But here's what I know for sure. When you're in the middle of a crisis, really anytime, but especially when you're in a crisis, your relationships are everything. Everything. So I'd put people at the center of all these strategies. You can't know how these dots are going to connect. But you can book a 20 minute call with somebody while you're driving to the spa on your day off or while you're going for a panty de stress walk on a Sunday. And those calls will eventually open doors you can't even imagine right now. So. So I hope that gives you a few ways forward here. But like I said earlier, your work ethic, your attitude, this willingness to do whatever it takes, it's a superpower, my friend. And it's a gift to any employer that you come in contact with. So keep showing up with that mindset, keep sharing that quality with people, and I know it'll take good care of you. We're rooting for you and good luck. All right, now for the recommendation of the week. I am addicted to lip filler. So my recommendation of the week is hand towels in the bathroom. So I went to my wife's friend's house. This is like a decade ago now. And they're loaded. They're just like silly rich. Probably one of the wealthiest people that I know. And I went to the bathroom at their house. And in the bathroom, of course, they have the regular towels, the one that everyone uses, but they also had a basket. And in the basket were these rolled up little washcloths. And you could use those to dry your hands. And then under the sink there was another basket where you threw the dirty washcloth.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Oh, yeah, that's a fancy bathroom.

[Jordan Harbinger]

When you see that, I was like, wait a minute. You only see this at fancy steakhouses.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Hotels.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Hotels. So then came out and I said, jen, you gotta go to the bathroom. She came back, she goes, the hand towels. I go, yeah. And then I said, that can't be that expensive of a thing to do. You're gonna reuse these. You're not gonna have people doing ridiculous stuff with them. Cause it's your home.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah. No one's having a date with Miss Michigan with those towels. Yeah, for sure.

[Jordan Harbinger]

No, hopefully not. And you know what? I'll never know. Cause they're washable. They get washed in the basket under the sink.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

So gross.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That is really gross. We'll link to the bucket O towels. Basically, there's an Amazon that just gives you like 20. So easy. You just throw them in the laundry. When you wash them, you don't have to roll them up. You can just fold them normally and stack them. And people who go into our bathroom, in the living room, in our house, they universally come out and go, wow, these hand towels. Fancy. Or they're like, I love that you have these in there. That is so nice. And I've had people in my living room, from just random parents of my kids, friends all the way to people, you know who have been on the show, have hundreds of millions of dollars or whatever stashed up somewhere and build submarines, and they equally come out and they're like, nice touch of the hand towels.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah. Way to cosplay as a four seasons. I like it.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That's right. And I will tell you, if I had this kind of towel game as a bachelor, I feel like that increases your chances. Right? Because a woman walks in there and she goes, oh, this guy has style. This is a hygiene indicator. Who knew that having hand towels in the bathroom could be an aphrodisiac? You're welcome.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Who knew that there was any such thing as towel game? I didn't even think about that.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Towel game on fleek. All right, in case y'all didn't know, there's a subreddit for the show. If you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes. A lot of you didn't love our homeschooling episode. What's funny about this is the subreddit goes crazy. A lot of people hated the homeschooling episode, and I did that one on purpose because Nick and I have just wildly different opinions on homeschooling and education. And so it. But people were furious about that. They were like, I hate that you've lost all credibility. And it's like, okay, so if I have somebody on who I disagree with and you disagree with, the show sucks now. But anyway, it's really interesting to get into discussions on the subreddit about that. There were two threads about that. One was, this is the best Skeptical Sunday co host because he disagrees with Jordan and they talk about it. And the other thread was about how much they hated that episode of Skeptical Sunday. So there's a lot of fun back and forth going on in the subreddit, a lot of fun conversations. So if you are a Reddit user, a Redditor, you can find us over there on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. All right, next up.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Hey, Jordan and Gabe. My husband and I have been together for eight years and married for two. We're not European, but we live in Central Europe, where we met. We always assumed we would have kids eventually, but with no set timeline to ease the pressure, we froze embryos. Now, at 41, we're struggling to make the leap. On a recent visit to my home country, I was exposed to parents who admitted that they regretted having kids for the wrong reasons. While others embraced parenting without hesitation. We don't share that deep, unquestioning desire. We envision offering our kids amazing opportunities, multilingualism, travel, diverse skills, but were apprehensive about the daily realities, total dependence, stress, and the irreversible lifestyle change. While my husband doesn't really express a desire to have kids anytime soon, he does fear regretting not having them. Meanwhile, I fear resenting them.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, I think that's the bind that a lot of potential parents are in, right?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

The reasons to have kids and how to factor in the future. So she goes on. We also lack a support network. Our families live on opposite sides of the world, and we have no strong local ties. But. But we have decided to live here from now on. I also worry about my patience, stamina, and the challenges of pregnancy and childbirth. We're very busy people, and we don't know how busy people do it. We also don't want to outsource our parenting a la British aristocracy. Despite these doubts, we're not fully against it. We're just stuck. How can we untangle this decision? What factors should we prioritize? Is strong desire the key, or do people grow into parenthood? Signed, help me end this confusing stalemate. Do we embrace our fate and procreate? Dodge the freight because life's pretty great, or simply wait until it's just too late?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Man, Gabe, you're gonna make us tell these people whether they should reproduce. That's the letter we're going out with.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Just a light one, Just a casual one to kick off the weekend.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, no presh. Just your everyday should I bring children into the world? Question. Cool.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Low stakes.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Thank you. So, first of all, I can relate to a lot of your letter. I don't know if there's anyone out there, no thoughtful person anyway, who has zero qualms or zero questions about having kids. It's a massive decision. It's a huge responsibility. It's one of the most, if not the most important decision most of us will ever make. And like all decisions, it involves a calculation of rewards. And costs in which trade offs you're willing to live with. You touched on a bunch of them. You'd probably experience a ton of joy and gratification by having kids. I was touched when you mentioned all the cool experiences and talents you'd want to give your children. I would love to grow up like that. That sounds amazing. It sounds like you guys would be awesome parents. And you'd also have to make major sacrifices. Your lifestyle for sure is just a casualty of that. Your time, you say goodbye to that, your stress level goes up, your energy, your body, especially for mothers, these are two sides of the same coin. You can't have one without the other. So I honestly cannot tell you, yes, definitely have kids, or no, definitely don't have kids. What I can share based on my own experience and watching a lot of other parents go through this is a few things. First, if you're gonna have kids, I think you need to make peace with the fact that this is an intense and highly ambiguous decision. There's no way to have kids and not experience the stress and responsibility and sacrifices you describe. Even if you're super wealthy, you got a ton of support. It's always a huge change. And if you decide to do it, you have to be willing to accept that it's less about finding a way to minimize the burden and more about embracing it as an essential part of the experience. It's the cost, so to speak, of getting to experience all the upsides. Also, speaking as a dad here, that stress, that burden, yes, it's hard for sure, but it can also be a fun stress and a joyful burden. So it's not quite as binary as you might think. Something else to keep in mind. But listen, what gives me some pause in your letter is this thing you said, how your husband doesn't really express a desire to have kids anytime soon. He more fears regretting not having them and meanwhile you fear resenting them. That's a little bit concerning to me. Or at least it brings up some questions. Not that there's anything wrong with those feelings. They're perfectly normal, totally valid. But they do make me wonder if parenthood is really calling you guys or calling you guys for the right reasons. Look, the thought that you might regret not having kids in the future, that's a real thing and that's a meaningful variable to consider. But it's ultimately a thought. And it's a thought about the future. It's highly abstract. It's not about the here and now or about the soon to be. Like, I really Want to have kids now or soon? Let's do it. It's about dodging a feeling in the future. So I'm just not sure how much stock you could put in that.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

That fear is also about him. Right? It's not about their kids together.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. That's also what gives me some pause. He's going, I'm afraid I'll regret not doing it. Which, again, totally fair. But if that's his main reason for having kids, that's something to explore. Because the truth is, having kids, yeah, in one big way, it's selfish. We want them, so we have them. But I think to be a great parent, at least to feel at peace with this decision, that self interest has to be balanced by a genuine love and dedication to your future children, the idea that you can set them up to live successful and meaningful lives. And I hear you that your husband does want that. I'm not saying he doesn't. I'm just saying keep an eye on the motivations here, because avoiding future regret, that's a consideration, but I'm just not sure it's the best reason to do something this big. And then you fear resenting your future children, which also gives me some pause. And again, that is a totally valid feeling to have. I also really appreciate that you're clocking that now rather than rushing into the decision and then waking up in a year with this resentment after you've had a kid or two. But I would really want to explore that feeling before you commit. What specifically would make you resentful? What relationship would you need to have with your kids? What supports would you need in place, even if only from your husband, to not feel resentful? Can you get to a place where your resentment, if it's there, is outweighed by your joy? That's the place where I feel like I am. Right. It's like I can't pick up and go to wherever I want for a week at a time anymore, but I'm gonna go play Legos, and it's gonna be awesome and make it all worth it. If you can get to that place, then this isn't necessarily the end of the story for you. It's more like it's an invitation into a process around this complicated feeling.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah, well said. This one gives me some pause as well. I'm with you. She's not a bad person for feeling that way. But it does bring up this huge question, which is, is it really fair to resent people you choose to bring into this world? And I know that she's concerned about that. And I also appreciate that. But if you think that you will resent them no matter what, is that a signal that you maybe shouldn't have kids?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Totally. But I'm of two minds here. I hesitate to say, yeah, I definitely don't have kids if you feel that way, because I know that all parents have at least flashes of resentment. I certainly have. It's usually for like five minutes. Then it goes away when I read them a bedtime story or whatever. The little moments of man, what do we do here? That doesn't ultimately make me regret having kids. But if you're already sensing that you'd resent the hit to your life a lot of the time, I would really sit with that man. Again, I'm not pushing you to any conclusion. It's very possible that you just need to work through some of these fears or make peace with them. Like I said, invite them in more. And the answer on the other side will be, yes, I do want children. And I'm willing to risk experiencing some degree of resentment sometimes. And if that feeling ever comes up, I'm going to work through it. Slash. I'm determined to make the joy of being a parent greater than any resentment I might feel. And again, that's the spot where I find myself. So again, this isn't game over. It's just an important feeling I would explore in a lot more depth before committing.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I think your question, what specifically would make her resentful is a really good one because the obvious answer is clearly my kids and how much time and energy and money they're going to require and the hit to my lifestyle and the stress and all of that. But there's so much more to that. First of all, time, energy, money, those things can feel very different depending on your lens on them. If you think of them like a cost, that's one thing. If you feel them more as an investment, then it's a totally different experience. But also I hear that what a lot of parents actually resent is a loss of identity. It's like the loss of the person they were before they were parents. And also the loss of freedom and the loss of total independence, which is another very valid concern. It's an important variable to consider. So if that's what's underneath this resentment, that is also something to explore, because I think it's pretty likely that you will experience a big shift in identity. That's part of the deal when you become a parent, right? But how you make room for these different parts of yourself Mother as well as partner and employee and friend and human being. Which also goes back to the thing Jordan said about how you and your husband are supporting each other that will probably make such a huge difference in how you feel about your kids. In other words, if what you're afraid of resenting is a loss of self, you might want to take some time to think about what aspects of yourself you really want to protect and how you can stay connected to those parts of you as you become a parent. And I'm not saying it's going to be easy. I hear that the first year or two are pretty hard. And there's kind of like an appropriate loss of self to some degree in all parenthood, especially motherhood. But I do wonder if there's a way to go into this decision with more conscious awareness of the things that would actually hurt to lose and the ways that you might be able to take care of yourself along the way in order to not lose them. And if that might reduce or even resolve any resentment that you're afraid of feeling.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, 100%. Or just to keep all options on the table here, because again, we're not telling you what to do. You might explore all that and go, yeah, there's no way. I won't feel resentful. I don't want to put that on my children. I better not have kids. I'm not saying that's the right conclusion. I'm just saying, absolutely, a fair choice. But look, all in all, the factors I would prioritize are your genuine excitement about creating a new life, your dedication to people other than yourselves, setting your kids up for success and meaning. Because yes, I do think a strong desire is a key. Maybe not the only key, but it is a crucial key. I also know that people do often grow into parenthood. Your love for them, your understanding of what they need, your own instincts, all of that only grows over time. But that is not necessarily true of everyone so connected to that. I would also factor in your emotional resources, your inner resources, how much love and attention you have to give, how available you are to raise happy, healthy kids. And I realize that it's hard to know that before they arrive, but I think if you really look inside, you can sense whether that capacity is at least there. Also, your practical and financial resources. Those obviously matter, too. I'm not saying you need to be uber wealthy or surrounded by family in order to justify having kids. Not by any means, but you want to make sure that you can give them the life you want to give them, that you have access to the experiences and the people and the places they need to thrive. And unfortunately, in this modern world, that requires a decent amount of money. Although maybe you guys have more resources in Central Europe just due to low cost of living. So that's pretty cool. The other variable I would prioritize is your relationship with each other, how strong your partnership is, how much you love each other, how well you guys work together as a team. That is absolutely crucial to raising children. And that includes how you guys are talking through this decision together.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I'm also very curious to know what those parents you hung out with can teach you. It's kind of like the esthetician who wrote in and said, there are people in my industry who are making this work, so I know it's possible. I mean, there's great research to be done. So these people you talk to who are over the moon about being parents, what variables do you see in their lives that might give you a clue as to what it takes to feel secure in this decision? And same thing for the ones who regret having kids. What are they dealing with or what are they not dealing with? Did they see this feeling coming or was it a total surprise to them? I would dig in deeper there too and talk with your husband about all of this and just basically become students of the other parents in your life. That's just like great recon for you. Make it safe for them to be very honest with you. Did you guys feel this way before or was this just creep up on you after you had kids and you realized it was a huge mistake? Or was there an inner voice telling you that maybe you weren't called to parenthood and you just didn't listen to it and now here you are. Just know that you will never ultimately know what parenthood is going to be like for you until you actually do it. And that's the bind that you're in, right? You can't know fully in advance, but I do think that having parents in your life is a huge benefit. And if you talk to them, it might give you a lot more data about all this.

[Jordan Harbinger]

For sure. It's an impossible question for anyone from the outside to answer unless there were super obvious red flags or green flags. Although I will say that thing you said about how you and your husband don't share that deep unquestioning desire for kids. Not saying that's a red flag or a definitely do not proceed sign, but it is something I would really sit with and unpack. You'll never be completely conflict free about having kids. But if you don't genuinely want them on a pretty deep level, that's totally fair. But that's a signal you want to take seriously at the very least. But you're in the boat I think most people are in, which is there are good reasons to do it, there are good reasons not to do it. And ultimately that means getting clear on your psychology, your motivations, your values, the benefits and trade offs you can live with, and also making peace with the fact that parenthood will always be a mixed bag, as it should be. That's an essential part of the journey. But I appreciate how much thought you're putting into this because the stakes are high. So while you might never get to a place where the answer is crystal clear, I would definitely get to a place where you feel you've done the work to be the best possible parent. Because you and your kids deserve that. Frankly, ultimately they're the variable that matters most. Kind of the whole point of having them. So that might be the thing you need to sit with right now. Good luck in whatever you decide to do. Don't forget to check out our episodes with Russ Swain, the Mormon Art student Gone Counterfeiter and our Skeptical Sunday on Sextortion. Go ahead and listen to those if you haven't had a chance to do so yet. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like and trust. I know we talked about it a little bit earlier on the show. Six Minute Networking. The course is free. The drills take a few minutes a day. Dig that well before you get thirsty and build relationships before you need them in very non cringy ways. You can find the course for free at sixminutenetworking.com show notes and transcripts are on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, [e-mail] deals I'm ordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, Gabe's over on Instagram, Abriel Mizrahi or on Twitter Abemizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tata Solowskis, and of course Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own and I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. The deepest parts of our oceans remain a mystery, with 75% still unexplored. You're about to hear a preview with Victor Vescovo. The first person to reach the deepest points of all five oceans. Built and piloted a submarine that defied crushing pressures, revealing a world few have ever seen.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

71% of the Earth is ocean, and of that 75% is completely unexplored. It's extraordinary. Deep ocean in the middle of the Pacific is completely unknown. We just don't go there and it's hard to go there. And many of the places in the ocean are really rough and because it's so harsh, that's why it's really hard and really expensive to explore the ocean. I think I'm cursed with just an insane curiosity, which I'm probably most known for is diving to the bottom of all five of the world's oceans. If I'm going to spend money, I'm not going to spend it on a ten million dollar birthday party. I'm going to spend it funding some people that are trying to move the needle forward on technology. It was kind of like Ocean's Eleven where I basically got to go around the world and say, who is the best person for expedition management? Who would be the best ship captain? And because this was such an ambitious undertaking, they wanted to do it. That, I think, is the way to spend wealth. I enjoy exploration, I enjoy pushing technological boundaries, but I like putting myself on the pointy end of the spear. And I don't leave it to other people. I want to be at the control. When I went down for the first time in the fully assembled sub, any number of things could have gone wrong because we had never put all the pieces together. Mine was designed and tested to a crush depth of 15,000 meters. That thing was a tank. And things did go wrong eventually. You can operate in a very dangerous world. You just need to be aware and you need to mitigate those risks.

[Jordan Harbinger]

What did Victor find in the darkness where even light cannot reach? To find out, listen to episode 1089 of the Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by Mint Mobile. You know how those big wireless companies always find a way to squeeze every last dime out of you? Like, hey, here's your bill and surprise. There's an extra fee for existing. It's ridiculous. That's one reason we finally tried Mint Mobile. The other reason is because they paid us handsomely to do so. But Mint Mobile starts at just 15 bucks a month, so you won't have to pay handsomely to try it out. That includes high speed data, unlimited talk and text, and it runs on the nation's largest 5G network. Mint Mobile is significantly cheaper than our old carrier. They do keep the cost down because you prepay for 3, 6, 12 months, whatever, and they make it really easy. You can keep your current phone, you don't have to upgrade anything. You keep your number, you keep all your contacts, you just pop in their SIM or ESIM and you're good to go. No more surprise fees or overages. Just simple, affordable premium service. So if you're ready to say goodbye to overpriced wireless bills, Mint Mobile's got you covered. And right now, you can get three months of premium wireless for just 15 bucks a month. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] jhs that's mintmobile.com jhs upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required, equivalent to $15 per month. New customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees. See Mint Mobile for details.