The Jordan Harbinger Show
Episode 1135: Sandra Matz | How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You
Release Date: April 1, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 1135 of The Jordan Harbinger Show, host Jordan Harbinger engages in a compelling conversation with Sandra Matz, a renowned expert in data privacy and behavioral psychology. Titled "How Algorithms Read and Reveal the Real You," the episode delves into the intricate ways modern algorithms analyze vast amounts of data to uncover deeply personal aspects of individuals' lives. From predicting mental health states to discerning sexual orientations, Matz unpacks the profound implications of data collection and algorithmic targeting in today's digital age.

Data Collection Practices

Sandra Matz begins by outlining the extensive data collection practices of major tech companies. She explains how companies capture a wide array of digital footprints—from social media interactions and credit card transactions to smartphone usage and location data.

Sandra Matz [03:12]: "Psychological targeting is in a way, taking all of the digital traces that you leave. So that ranges from what you post on social media to you swiping your credit card to your smartphone..."

Matz emphasizes that these data points allow companies to construct detailed psychological profiles, including personality traits, values, political ideologies, and even sexual orientations.

Psychological Targeting and Predictive Analytics

The conversation shifts to the concept of psychological targeting, where algorithms translate behavioral data into meaningful psychological characteristics. Matz describes how machine learning models undergo extensive training through trial and error to accurately predict various personal attributes.

Jordan Harbinger [33:51]: "I see. So it's just tons of trial and error."

Sandra Matz [34:39]: "Machine learning is called that way because they learn by trial and error. So the way that we train a model, for example, to predict your personality from say Facebook likes..."

Matz provides an analogy comparing machine learning to chick sexing in hatcheries, illustrating how supervised learning processes enable algorithms to become adept at making accurate predictions over time.

AI’s Intrusive Predictive Abilities

A significant portion of the episode explores the uncanny ability of AI to predict sensitive aspects of individuals' lives. Matz shares unsettling findings, such as algorithms being able to determine sexual orientation with 81% accuracy based solely on facial features.

Sandra Matz [39:32]: "It's a signal that you're currently very focused on, why am I feeling so bad? How am I going to get better?"

This segment underscores the ethical and privacy concerns surrounding such capabilities, highlighting the potential for misuse and the erosion of personal privacy.

Privacy Concerns and Data Permanence

Harbinger and Matz discuss the concept of data permanence—the idea that once data is out in the digital world, it remains accessible indefinitely. They touch upon how even minimal data points, like credit card transactions, can uniquely identify individuals.

Sandra Matz [63:25]: "Even if we anonymize data, right? Even if, like, I got all of the credit card spending from everybody in Manhattan, and we say, but it's anonymized because we're not using any names... your spending signature is so unique, right? Almost like a fingerprint..."

Matz argues that data permanence poses significant risks, as leadership within companies may change, potentially altering how data is utilized and exploited without individuals' consent.

Ethical Implications and Real-World Consequences

The discussion delves into real-world scenarios where data misuse has had dire consequences. Matz recounts a harrowing case where a judge's data was exploited, leading to personal tragedy.

Sandra Matz [79:25]: "And to me, this notion that we just don't know what tomorrow is going to look like is just a good reminder that you probably should care about your privacy."

This example serves as a stark reminder of the tangible dangers posed by unchecked data collection and algorithmic power.

Regulatory Responses and Solutions

In seeking solutions, Matz advocates for measures such as breaking up tech monopolies and establishing data cooperatives. She highlights successful implementations in the medical field, where data cooperatives have empowered patients while safeguarding their information.

Sandra Matz [81:32]: "For example, Scott Galloway, Tim Boo, have been saying this for years, is if we could break up the tech monopolies... you can imagine that they hold pretty much this entire picture of who you are."

Matz also discusses the potential of taxing data brokers and implementing federal regulations to protect individual privacy effectively.

Impact on Personal Relationships and Identity

Harbinger raises concerns about companies knowing individuals better than their closest relationships. Matz elaborates on how algorithms surpass human abilities in remembering and analyzing personal data, leading to a loss of authentic human connections.

Sandra Matz [28:54]: "It's like your smartphone tracking or whereabouts 247 is like a person walking behind you observing your every move."

This segment highlights the psychological impact of digital surveillance on personal identity and relationships.

Digital Doppelgangers and Future Implications

The episode explores the concept of digital doppelgangers—AI models that mimic an individual's personality and behavior. Matz and Harbinger discuss the potential and pitfalls of such technology, including the loss of uniqueness and the ethical dilemmas it presents.

Sandra Matz [38:09]: "Once I have a second Jordan, I can ask, well, how do I best persuade you?"

They ponder the future where AI could influence personal decisions and maintain perpetual access to individuals' digital personas.

Call to Action and Positive Future Outlook

Despite the grim outlook, Matz maintains an optimistic perspective. She emphasizes the importance of proactive measures and positive narratives to harness technology's potential benefits while mitigating its risks.

Sandra Matz [84:05]: "We need these positive visions to even get us started."

Matz encourages listeners to advocate for better data protection laws and embrace technologies that prioritize user privacy without sacrificing convenience.

Notable Quotes

• Sandra Matz [00:10]: "In the Pacific Northwest, it's never too cold for an iced coffee in the morning."

• Jordan Harbinger [09:12]: "It's funny because people will ask me something like, wow, your life is really not that private because you have a podcast and you have this online brand."

• Sandra Matz [70:06]: "You can tell your kid if your kid misbehaves and throws food on the floor... you'll just be more successful by showing them something they can do instead."

Conclusion

Episode 1135 of The Jordan Harbinger Show offers a profound exploration of the intersection between data privacy, AI, and personal identity. Through an enlightening dialogue with Sandra Matz, listeners gain a deep understanding of how algorithms can predict and influence various facets of their lives. The episode serves as both a cautionary tale and a call to action, urging individuals and society to navigate the complexities of digital data with awareness and responsibility.

For those interested in safeguarding their privacy and understanding the mechanisms behind algorithmic targeting, this episode provides invaluable insights and practical advice.

Listen to Episode 1135: The Jordan Harbinger Show