The Jordan Harbinger Show - Episode 1149: Slavery | Skeptical Sunday

Release Date: May 4, 2025

Hosts:

• Jordan Harbinger – Host of The Jordan Harbinger Show
• Nick Pell – Skeptical Sunday co-host, writer, and researcher

Introduction to Skeptical Sunday

At [01:37], Jordan Harbinger introduces "Skeptical Sunday," a segment dedicated to dissecting topics that may not receive as much attention during the week. Today’s focus is on slavery, both historical and contemporary forms, aiming to provide a balanced and comprehensive view beyond the commonly referenced American slavery narrative.

Jordan Harbinger:
"Slavery everywhere is obviously icky." [03:16]

Nick Pell:
"Slavery isn't a part of the past. Slavery is happening right now." [04:09]

Defining Slavery: Historical and Modern Perspectives

Nick Pell begins by broadening the definition of slavery beyond the American context, emphasizing that slavery has been a prevalent form of labor organization throughout human history.

Nick Pell:
"Slavery is the default means of organizing labor throughout human history." [04:09]

He distinguishes between two main types of slavery:

1. Chattel Slavery: Complete ownership of individuals, allowing masters to buy, sell, and exploit slaves without restrictions.

   Jordan Harbinger:
   "That's typically what people mean when they talk about slavery, especially from a Western perspective." [05:26]

2. Forced Labor: Modern iterations where individuals are compelled to work under threat, often without the ability to transfer their condition, such as in prisons or military conscription.

   Nick Pell:
   "Forced labor isn't chattel slavery, but it shares many coercive elements." [05:34]

Historical Slavery: From Ancient Rome to the American South

Ancient Civilizations:

• Roman Slavery: Primarily utilized for agriculture and mining, with slaves facing brutal conditions, especially in mercury and salt mines.

  Nick Pell:
  "Mining in the ancient world was a slow death sentence." [11:07]

• Greek Slavery: Similar to Rome, with a focus on agricultural labor and domestic servitude. The Spartans, for instance, relied on helots for their agricultural needs.

  Nick Pell:
  "The Spartans had helots who were treated like garbage and were in almost constant revolt." [17:18]

Transatlantic Slave Trade:

• Distinct from earlier forms, the transatlantic slave trade involved the large-scale kidnapping and transportation of Africans to the Americas, establishing racialized chattel slavery.

  Nick Pell:
  "African slavery is different because an entire race was enslaved based on their ethnicity." [20:28]

• American Slavery: Peaked in the late 18th century, with about 13-18% of the U.S. population enslaved before abolition.

  Nick Pell:
  "By the last census before abolition, there were about 4 million slaves in the U.S., making up roughly 13% of the population." [56:04]

Differences Between Slavery Systems

Indentured Servitude vs. Chattel Slavery:

• Indentures: Typically time-bound contracts (e.g., seven years for Irish indentured servants) without the perpetual ownership inherent in chattel slavery.

  Nick Pell:
  "Irish indentures were often treated worse on a day-to-day basis, yet they were for a limited term." [24:09]

• Chattel Slavery: Lifelong ownership, including the ability to separate families and perpetuate the slave status across generations.

  Jordan Harbinger:
  "Imagine having your kids sold away from you as a parent." [24:46]

Barbary Slave Trade vs. Transatlantic Slave Trade:

• Barbary Slave Trade: Enslaved primarily Europeans, with distinct motivations and scales compared to the transatlantic system.

  Nick Pell:
  "The Barbary slave trade had about 1.25 million slaves, compared to 10 times that number in the transatlantic trade." [55:00]

Modern Slavery: Forced Labor and Beyond

Prison Labor in the United States:

• Even after the abolition of chattel slavery, the 13th Amendment allows involuntary servitude as punishment for crime, leading to widespread prison labor.

  Nick Pell:
  "The 13th Amendment permits slavery as a punishment, resulting in over 800,000 Americans being engaged in forced labor within prisons." [43:48]

Military Conscription:

• Draft systems in countries like the U.S., Eritrea, and North Korea can resemble forced labor, especially when participation is coerced under threat.

  Nick Pell:
  "Eritrean military conscripts often find themselves serving beyond their contractual terms, effectively becoming modern slaves." [60:12]

Human Trafficking and Forced Begging:

• Across the globe, millions are subjected to forced labor, debt bondage, and human trafficking, trapping individuals in exploitative conditions.

  Nick Pell:
  "Countries like India have high numbers of modern slaves, many of whom are trapped in debt bondage or forced begging." [57:37]

Global Statistics:

• 40-50 Million people are estimated to be in modern slavery worldwide, with the highest concentrations in countries like India, China, North Korea, and Eritrea.

  Nick Pell:
  "According to the International Labor Organization, there are approximately 40 million slaves worldwide." [61:12]

Addressing Modern Slavery: Challenges and Solutions

Consumer Awareness and Action:

• Nick Pell urges listeners to support legitimate organizations working to eradicate slavery, emphasizing the importance of informed donations and systemic change.

  Nick Pell:
  "If you want to do something about slavery, please do not buy a child or give money to illegitimate organizations perpetuating the cycle." [70:22]

Systemic Barriers:

• The persistence of slavery is attributed to cultural norms, lack of rule of law, economic incentives (e.g., profitability of forced labor), and vulnerability of populations in unstable regions.

  Nick Pell:
  "Oil has played a significant role in preventing a resurgence of slavery, as mechanization reduces the need for human labor." [68:42]

Advocacy and Legislation:

• Strengthening international laws, supporting anti-trafficking initiatives, and promoting human rights education are critical steps towards eliminating modern slavery.

  Nick Pell:
  "Anti-Slavery International and similar organizations are essential in the fight against modern slavery." [70:22]

Conclusion: A Grim Reality Still Persisting

Nick Pell concludes with a somber reflection on humanity's struggle against slavery, highlighting that despite technological advancements, the ingrained social and economic structures continue to allow forced labor and exploitation.

Nick Pell:
"We're living in one of the few times in history where slavery isn't the norm for everyone, but it's still an obscene reality with millions of people suffering." [66:25]

Jordan Harbinger:
"The numbers are staggering, and it's a stark reminder that slavery hasn't been eradicated but instead transformed into more insidious forms." [62:03]

Notable Quotes

• Nick Pell:
  "Slavery is not just a relic of the past; it's a present-day reality affecting millions." [04:09]

• Jordan Harbinger:
  "Imagine every single person in California being enslaved. That's the scale of the problem." [62:15]

• Nick Pell:
  "Most slave owners today view enslaved individuals as investments rather than human beings, which is morally repugnant." [26:29]

Final Thoughts

This episode of Skeptical Sunday delves deep into the multifaceted nature of slavery, tracing its historical roots and exposing its modern manifestations. By challenging common misconceptions and shedding light on less-discussed aspects, Jordan Harbinger and Nick Pell provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of slavery's enduring legacy and the urgent need for global action to combat its contemporary forms.

For Further Information:

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